Military Review

"Forerunner tanks" from France ...

184

The strangest prototype tank in the world: "creeper" engineer Boirot. Photo Landships.info


"Prepare for war,
Excite the brave;
let them perform
all the warriors will rise.
Beat plowshares into swords
And your sickles - for spears;
Let the weak say: "I am strong."
(Joel 3,9-10)

Tanks of the world. Not so long ago, VO published material about ... the French Renault tank, and it stated that it was the French who inspired the British to create the first tank, well, a lot of interesting things were written there ... except what really should have been written. And it should have been written that yes, indeed, it was they, the French, who began to build the first machines for action on the battlefield in the First World War, but they could only inspire their "tanks" for something and only randomly, so they were technically imperfect. And this is really so, because the very first "tank" made in metal by them, the purpose of which was to tear the barbed wire barriers and pave the way for their troops, did not resemble a tank at all! And yes, this “device” was built in France, and it was called “Boirot's machine”. Moreover, it was possible to build it in two versions, and both of them rightfully deserve the name of the most unusual combat vehicles of that time.

As soon as the maneuvering period of the First World War was over, the French soldiers had to immediately face barbed wire obstacles, which they had to somehow overcome!


Here it is in all its glory - truly "great and truly terrible"! Photo Landships.info

"Crawler" Boirot


Cutting them with special scissors was first of all dangerous. Bursting with shells is too expensive and irrational. And it was here that the engineer M. Boirot decided to say his word, the first car of which was tested on the ground in December 1914. To anyone who saw it, it seemed, probably, something monstrous, since it was an eight-meter frame, consisting of six flat plates connected by hinges. Inside it, the designer placed a kind of pyramidal-shaped cabin, in which there was a motor with a capacity of only 80 hp. and space was provided for two crew members. The cabin had wheels and could slowly roll along the rails inside the frame, while huge plates, like caterpillar tracks, “paved” the road in front of this monster.

"Forerunner tanks" from France ...
But in the diagram, the crawler looks ridiculous, but not scary! Photo Landships.info

That is, the plates alternately fell from above to the ground and ... with their weight they tore and pressed the wire barriers into the ground, but the infantry could walk quite freely behind the vehicle. And since her weight was 30 tons, and besides, the dimensions were also appropriate, then she could lay the road through the most multi-row barriers. Only her speed was only 3 km / h! Moreover, she absolutely could not turn! In addition, it was also just a wonderful target for enemy artillery. Therefore, immediately after the tests, it was abandoned.


I had to come up with something like that ... Photo Landships.info

"How did she turn?"


Boirot, however, did not lose heart, and immediately offered the military a more compact version with an armored hull, smaller in size, which now could not only tear barbed wire, but also force trenches six feet wide. But ... a speed of only 1 km / h, as well as a turning radius of 100 meters, did not leave her the slightest chance to be adopted. By the way, it is not at all clear how she did it, and what kind of mechanism was on her.


"Boirot No. 2". The car has become smaller, more compact, but, perhaps, it looks even worse ... Photo Landships.info


And this is it during tests on the ground. Photo Landships.info

But since she at least somehow turned, it means that there was something “turning” on her after all. And this time, the designer even suggested installing in its doors, on the right and left sides, armament from two machine guns, for which he increased the crew of the "car" to 3 people. But even in such an armed and improved form, she "did not go"!


Probably, they are also perplexed - where is her steering wheel? Photo Landships.info

"Breto-Preto" - win with a cutter and machine gun


Another French engineer, DL Breteau, learned about the failure of the "Boirot machines", and Boirot's ideas inspired him to create his own version of a machine for overcoming wire obstacles. Only now he decided not to crush them, but to cut them with a special mechanical cutter, which was a vertical saw with a mechanical drive. The sample for testing was taken by the company "Preto", which is why this new device received a double name: "Breto-Preto". In its finished form, it was a five-ton armored wheeled tractor armed with a Hotchkiss machine gun in a small turret.


Breto device. The teeth themselves were motionless and served only to grip the wire, and they were cut by a special chain, arranged according to the principle of a modern chainsaw

Tests of 10 such "tractors" at once began to be carried out on August 22, 1915. It turned out that ... the whole car was unsuccessful. Then in September it was decided to install the Boirot device on the Renault M.1915 armored car, and due to the added weight, the machine gun turret had to be removed. But even with this car, nothing good happened. And then they decided to use the Jeffrey Quad tracked tractor, supplied to France from the United States and used by the French army as a towing vehicle for heavy guns. However, its chassis with the "lunar relief" on the battlefield did not cope. He was stuck in a trench, from where he was barely pulled out. The third design, based on the Baby Holt tractor, had a body made of special boiler steel and entered trials in December 1915. They did not even put the Breto cutter on it, but first of all tried to find out the level of its passability. The fully armored Baby Holt was planned to be armed with two Hotchkiss machine guns - one in the nose to the right along the course, and the other in the turret mounted on the hull. Now this already at least somehow looked like a tank, and the experience of working on this vehicle was to some extent reflected in the design of the Schneider SA.1 tank.


Chainsaw on a tractor wheeled chassis

"Electric Tractor" Gabe and Aubrio


Then two more French engineers Paul Aubriot and Gustave Gabet, all in the same 1915 on the chassis of an agricultural tractor "Filtz", built a strange, very strange combat vehicle, somewhat similar to an armored tower with two front tractor wheels of large diameter, which were leading ... Armament - 37 mm rapid-fire cannon. The crew consisted of two people: the driver and the commander, who was both the gunner, that is, the gunner and the loader. But the most unusual thing about its design, apart from its appearance, was the propulsion system, which they used as an electric motor, which was powered by a cable that was pulled behind this "tractor".


"Fortress" - Gabe and Aubrio's car. Photo from the book "Dawn of Glory"

Inside, this "tank" had no batteries, no electric generator - nothing! But there was a cable that was unwound from a special reel. And already either a mobile or a stationary current source was connected to it! Of course, the combat vehicle, behind which the "tail" is dragged out of the cable, was declared completely unsuitable for the army. And the good news is that both designers understood this and proposed an improved version, which had a gasoline-electric propulsion system in the body and, in addition, tracked. The vehicle had a length of 6 m, a width of 2,5 m, a height of 2 m, and a combat weight of 8-10 tons. In August 1915, the military ordered the designers of 10 of these "tanks" for testing. But the engine is only 45 hp. turned out to be too weak. Therefore, this car did not develop the declared speed.


Fighting vehicle P. Froth. As you can see, then they built everything in a row, without even thinking about whether it would work at all.
Photo Landships.info

Frot's Pull-Push


Well, in March, again in 1915, engineer P. Froth, who worked for the Severny Canal company, also proposed a "combat vehicle" similar to ... "push-pull". She weighed 10 tons, had two control posts and could move back and forth on the battlefield without even turning around. It had to press the barbed wire barriers due to the shape of the body and the wheels on which this wire would fall. 20 hp engine was in the center of the case. The crew of 9 people included four machine gunners and three of their assistants. The speed of the car was only 3-5 km / h, and besides, it turned out that it actually could not move on rough terrain.


Fighting vehicle P. Froth. Drawing by a contemporary artist


On the battlefield, she was completely helpless ... Photo Landships.info

This, in fact, is all the achievements of French engineering, which in 1915 could at least somehow inspire the British ...


As a result, such diamond-shaped vehicles entered the battlefield, which became the first tanks in the world! Still from the film "New Gulliver" (1935)

You, dear VO readers, can read more about all the above-mentioned machines, again, on our pages in the materials of past years:
Experimental engineering machine Appareil Boirault №2 (France)
Projects of articulated tanks Boirault Train Blindé (France)
Armored car Frot-Laffly (France)

There is also interesting literature on this topic, both in Russian and in English:
1. Richard Ogorkevich. Tanks: 100 years stories... Edition in Russian, LLC "Publishing Group" Azbuka-Atticus ", 2019.
2. Vauvallier, F. (2014). The Encyclopedia of French Tanks and Armored Fighting Vehicles 1914-1940. Histoire and Collections Publishing, France.
3. Zaloga, S. (2010). French Tanks of WW1. Osprey Publishing.


PS The site administration and the author would like to express deep gratitude to A. Sheps for the illustrations for the article.
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184 comments
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  1. Lipchanin
    Lipchanin 30 January 2021 05: 55
    +4
    Yes, the French frolic with all their hearts laughing
    As you can see, then they built everything in a row, without even thinking about whether it would work at all.

    Ingenious good
    1. Gato
      Gato 31 January 2021 09: 39
      0
      Yes, everyone can offend an artist ..
  2. Krasnodar
    Krasnodar 30 January 2021 06: 02
    +7
    Churchill himself lobbied for the creation of the British tank)).
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 30 January 2021 07: 28
      +10
      Quote: Krasnodar
      Churchill himself lobbied for the creation of the British tank)).

      The head of the fleet of His Majesty at that time.
      Thank you Vyacheslav Olegovich, I read about many miracles from the article, but I see photos, drawings and diagrams for the first time.
      Regards, Vlad!
      1. Krasnodar
        Krasnodar 30 January 2021 08: 34
        +6
        Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Quote: Krasnodar
        Churchill himself lobbied for the creation of the British tank)).

        Quite right. As the First Lord of the Admiralty, he took part in many issues related to the war)).
        1. Aviator_
          Aviator_ 30 January 2021 19: 21
          +3
          And for the failed Dardanelles operation he lost his post
          1. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 30 January 2021 19: 59
            +3
            Quit himself
      2. The leader of the Redskins
        The leader of the Redskins 30 January 2021 10: 17
        +5
        But I learned about a lot from the article for the first time. Apparently due to the fact that all the same, these machines and projects should be more attributed to engineering machines.
        If we talk about who inspired the creation of tanks ... Let's remember Leonard Davinci ...
        But the material is interesting, no doubt about it.
        1. Outsider V.
          Outsider V. 1 February 2021 12: 27
          0
          Let's remember Leonard Davinci already ...


          Need to remember Leonardo da Vinci (not to be confused with Michelangelo's turtle and Beethoven the dog).
      3. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 30 January 2021 19: 42
        +8
        This is how the first British Mark tanks were made as land battleships.
        - Marine design: single space inside and towers on the sides.
        And the caterpillars - so as not to interfere - along the perimeter.
        Obviously it was not motorists who designed it, but sailors.
        1. hohol95
          hohol95 30 January 2021 23: 12
          +1
          WikiWiki -
          As a result, in the spring of 1915 at the British Admiralty a specialized "Committee for Land Ships" was created. The establishment of this institute was overseen by the Royal Naval Air Service (RNAS), which was very interested in armored combat vehicles to guard its continental coastal bases. Eustace Tennyson D'Encourt, Director of the Marine Construction Authority, became the head of the committee

          It turns out that sea pilots were also involved.
  3. Crowe
    Crowe 30 January 2021 06: 10
    +14
    Work on heavy armored offensive vehicles was carried out before the First World War by all participants in the future conflict, the Russian military theorist Field Marshal Milyutin prophetically wrote back in 1912 that "The machine will more and more gain the upper hand over the muscular strength of man. Instead of field guns with horse harness, mobile armored batteries will enter the battle on the battlefield, and a land battle will be like a sea battle."
    Here we not only did not lag behind, but also ahead of many! Suffice it to say that the main distinguishing detail of any old and modern tank (caterpillar) was born in Russia, in the Saratov province. A native of the village of Nikolsky, Volsky district, peasant Fedor Abramovich Blinov received a patent in 1878 ( privilege) to "A car with endless rails for the transport of goods on highways and country roads." This design became the ancestor of the caterpillar drive.
    The "armored vehicle" of the shipbuilding engineer Vasily Mendeleev (son of the great chemist), in fact, was the first draft of a super-heavy tank: a 170-ton tracked armored vehicle of almost 13 meters length, armed with a 120-mm naval gun. "Bronekhod", or Mendeleev's tank, so and was not embodied in metal: the estimated cost of the specimen was comparable to the cost of building a combat submarine.
    But this car is considered to be the first Russian tank.

    In June 1915, the All-Terrain Vehicle was tested, as a result of which good acceleration and maneuverability of the tank, its high speed, good maneuverability, even in ditch and deep sand conditions were revealed. But, despite the increase in the speed characteristics of Porokhovshchikov's All-Terrain Vehicle, by the end 1915, the Automobile Committee of the GVTU considered that this car was not perfect enough, so they did not give money for its revision either.
    But the "tsar-tank" engineer Lebedenko was built and tested - albeit with disappointing results.

    According to Lebedenko's plan, the giant wheels were supposed to easily overcome wire barriers and trenches. Alas, on the very first tests it turned out: although the front wheels really "broke birch like matches", according to eyewitnesses, the rear steering pair of small diameter got stuck in the sandy ground. Even its powerful power plant could not pull out the "king-tank" the 240-horsepower Maybach engines removed from the damaged German airship. The already built machine remained standing at the test site, in the woods, until in 1923 it was dismantled for scrap.
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 30 January 2021 07: 52
      +7
      Leader! As for populism, the very name of "technology" according to legend is associated with Russia! On the first tanks, for the sake of secrecy, they wrote “tank, be careful Petrograd”. Moreover, in Russian letters.
      So with us, the British and Americans, the tank (capacity, tank) has remained the self-name of the tank. The French call the tank a "ball" - a cart, the Poles call it "chog" - a caterpillar.
      Regarding Mendeleev's tank - mind games, all to the maximum up to 152mm guns and air suspension which modern MBT cannot boast of!
      The Tsar Tank is a banal successful PR move, in the form of a personal gift to the Tsar, a model successfully overcoming the weighty volumes of the code of laws of the Russian Empire.
      The all-terrain vehicle is small and had a poor layout. The driver and the gunner commander sat side by side.
      You have bypassed the Rybinsk tank N2. Here he is closest to what crawled out onto the battlefields in World War II!
      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 30 January 2021 07: 58
        +6


        I found only a modern drawing and a diagram of the first model of a Rybinsk plant tank with a 107mm cannon.
      2. kalibr
        30 January 2021 08: 39
        +7
        Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
        The all-terrain vehicle is small and had a poor layout. The driver and the gunner commander sat side by side.

        There was only room for one! Get on my profile - the first of 24 pages - there is an article about ALL Porokhovshchikov's tanks ...
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 30 January 2021 09: 00
          +6
          Quote: kalibr
          Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
          The all-terrain vehicle is small and had a poor layout. The driver and the gunner commander sat side by side.

          There was only room for one! Get on my profile - the first of 24 pages - there is an article about ALL Porokhovshchikov's tanks ...

          Too lazy to go to the first floor laughing
          According to Katorin. They tested the "all-terrain vehicle" by loading them with sandbags.
          It was supposed to put a machine-gun turret on it, but one crew member could not control the "drive" and shoot at the same time. In two, this "baby" could only fit the crew members "side-by-side", but then the meaning of the machine-gun tower was lost early. Experiments on steam pokatushek, as far as I remember, I read. Both crew members fit on the same sandbag that mimics the weight of the armor, erection and tower!
          Nobody thought about comfort in those days - I am referring you Vyacheslav Olegovich to your book "Tanks of Total Wars" with drawings by the respected Sheps - Renault17 in a cut. As far as I remember, the commander was supposed to stand during the battle, later sit in a fabric loop and only then he was offered a steel stool !!! Other tanks and armored cars had a similar evolution!
          Sincerely yours, hi Bass!
          1. kalibr
            30 January 2021 09: 31
            +5
            Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
            your book

            I remember how ... And you have a good morning. And we have snow, wind in Penza ... and I have to go to the market for high quality products. And Basia responds to Sonya by saying hello - he sleeps on the couch after the morning games! And Zlata went to learn to drive a car. Driving around town ...
          2. Korsar4
            Korsar4 30 January 2021 11: 03
            +7
            As for the first floor, I can't resist.

            Middle class indicator.
            I built a two-storey house.
            There's no one else to send to the first floor.
      3. kalibr
        30 January 2021 08: 49
        +4
        Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
        You have bypassed the Rybinsk tank N2. Here he is closest to what crawled out onto the battlefields in World War II!

        On which there is nothing at all, except for this scheme. No eyewitness memories, no consumables ... for ink and the work of draftsmen ... NOTHING!
        There will be an article continuing this topic about one more French tank. Generally a miracle of technology. But ... only on paper. So paper "miracles" are curious, no words. But don't talk about anything!
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 30 January 2021 09: 15
          +3
          Quote: kalibr
          There will be an article continuing this topic about one more French tank. Generally a miracle of technology. But ... only on paper. So paper "miracles" are curious, no words. But don't talk about anything!

          There was enough fornication everywhere and always! From ball-tanks with brackets inside, for driving by "fart steam", to "armored caps" for buses!
          "Folk art of the masses"! see V.O. Shpakovsky repeat
          Louis Renault did not come up with a misunderstanding that was then copied by everyone from the USA to Russia.
          I repeat - the layout of this tank is still relevant.
          1. Andreich74
            Andreich74 30 January 2021 10: 49
            +4
            Maybe it's still a line-up, not a "layout"? Sorry, but it breaks my eyes a little ...
            1. Undecim
              Undecim 30 January 2021 11: 19
              +8
              Maybe it's still a line-up, not a "layout"?
              Layout
      4. Pane Kohanku
        Pane Kohanku 30 January 2021 17: 36
        +2
        The Tsar Tank is a banal successful PR move, in the form of a personal gift to the Tsar, a model successfully overcoming the weighty volumes of the code of laws of the Russian Empire.

        Yes, yes, Katorin and his companions described it very well in the book, I find out. yes And the autocrat left the model for himself! drinks
    2. kalibr
      30 January 2021 08: 37
      +7
      Quote: Crowe
      In June 1915, the All-Terrain Vehicle was tested, as a result of which good acceleration and maneuverability of the tank, its high speed, good maneuverability, even in ditch and deep sand conditions were revealed. But, despite the increase in the speed characteristics of Porokhovshchikov's All-Terrain Vehicle, by the end 1915, the Automobile Committee of the GVTU considered that this car was not perfect enough, so they did not give money for its revision either.

      I didn’t write what was on VO and my article about this "tank". Just on the basis of the documents ... and ... how to put it this way ... "propaganda of the Soviet era" greatly embellished this squalor. Really there was no smell of a tank! More about this in my books "Tanks of the era of total wars" and "Tanks are unique and paradoxical".
    3. kalibr
      30 January 2021 08: 47
      +6
      Quote: Crowe
      Even its powerful power plant of two 240-horsepower Maybach engines removed from the damaged German airship could not pull out the "Tsar Tank"

      He had friction wheel drive !!! Two car wheels pressed against the rim of the large wheel left and right! The slightest dampness and dirt and they slipped. Powerful ... Who ... designed this at all?
    4. Catfish
      Catfish 30 January 2021 15: 36
      +6
      Leader, have you read the title of the article? And here everything that you wrote, everyone has known for so long that "an elephant is a truly Russian animal." I want you to reprint what has long been published on this site, and about Lebedenko's "tank" and Porokhovshchikov's car.
    5. hohol95
      hohol95 30 January 2021 23: 13
      0
      They also forgot the invention of the combat hyperboloid! Engineer Garin hi
    6. bk0010
      bk0010 30 January 2021 23: 54
      0
      Quote: Crowe
      "Bronekhod" by shipbuilder Vasily Mendeleev (son of the great chemist), in fact, was the first draft of a super-heavy tank:
      Only outwardly: in terms of its tasks, it was a mobile weapon of coastal defense ("Coast" for today's money).
  4. Lech from Android.
    Lech from Android. 30 January 2021 06: 17
    +2
    The French are such entertainers ... they make a French bun out of weapons.
    But when the Germans or Russians get down to business, they get a real weapon.
    1. Lipchanin
      Lipchanin 30 January 2021 06: 31
      +1
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      . make a French bun from weapons.

      And women's cosmetics lol
      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 30 January 2021 07: 37
        +5
        Quote: Lipchanin
        Quote: Lech from Android.
        . make a French bun from weapons.

        And women's cosmetics lol

        Yes, these "perverts" also invented the RenoFT17 tank with wooden driving wheels.
        I just can't understand why the classic layout - this "croissant" is repeated by 99% of perfect battle tanks !!! request
        Including the T-90? repeat
        1. Lipchanin
          Lipchanin 30 January 2021 07: 42
          +2
          Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
          Including the T-90?

          I have no idea lol
          And I also do not understand why they have saws in the back? request
          Back to front on a thorn? laughing
          1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
            Kote Pan Kokhanka 30 January 2021 08: 04
            +4
            Not only them!
            Our domestic:


            Garford-Putilov

            The first tank of the Rybinsk plant
            In both cases, it was assumed that we will fight in front of the hall! yes
            1. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku 30 January 2021 15: 45
              +9
              Our domestic:

              Hello, hello! drinks To all the rest of the much-liked people - hello too! drinks
              Your first two photos show "Garford", and the second one - a German trophy, apparently used for police purposes in suppressing the uprising.
              Prior to that, the cannon vehicles were represented by the piece Mannesmann-Mulag and Packard. But in 1914, the Purchasing Commission of Colonel Sekretev (later - General) was sent abroad. As you can imagine, there were as many cars in RIA as an offended cat could cry. sad So they were engaged in the purchase of cars and also - already armored vehicles. soldier
              Among them were cabover trucks of the American company "Garford". On their basis, the head of the Officer Rifle School, General-Beard Nikolai Mikhailovich Filatov, undertook to develop an armored car. The engine was weak - only 30 hp, mobility and agility were disgusting, but everything was redeemed by the weapon system! good Filatov at his own rifle range (It's good to be a monopolist with a "base" and other goodies!) Went through several artillery systems, and settled on a 76-mm domestic "short" cannon. Because she developed the best fragmentation and high-explosive impact. yes

              Pay attention to the abundance of awards among the personnel. The officer on the right has an order with swords for military service. This is exactly how the Russian armored units fought - dashing, steadfastly and professionally! Probably, they were record holders for awards ... soldier
              "Garfords" were built 30 pieces for the army. Having looked at them, the sailors additionally ordered 20 pieces.
              The first domestic "tank" was the armored vehicle of Colonel Gulkevich. First, they took the Allis-Chalmers tractor and tested it at the test site, including the transportation of the cannon - the very short one proposed by Filatov.

              Further, the tractor was thought over by the design, and sheathed with armor, like that of the "Garford", installing a 76-mm short cannon in the rear of the tower. It was produced in a single copy. Here he is already with "Soviet insignia:

              Here I would like to note that General Filatov proposed the very "support tank gun" that will live in domestic armored vehicles for another 25 years - on T-28, T-35, BT-7A tanks and others. Further, the increase in the length of the barrel will begin - by the end of the 30s, the thickness of the armor of the tanks increased! drinks
              1. Pane Kohanku
                Pane Kohanku 30 January 2021 17: 40
                +7
                I really didn’t understand why some offended woman gave me a minus for the “Garfords” and Filatov. This is clinical idiocy, it cannot be cured. negative
                1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                  Kote Pan Kokhanka 30 January 2021 17: 47
                  +4
                  Nicholas don't take it to heart! If you reproached your cat with Hartford, you would get a plus from the offense!
                  We are all with history and across the throat to many who are unable to argue, but minus to slap incognito into the lung !!!
                  1. Pane Kohanku
                    Pane Kohanku 30 January 2021 17: 50
                    +4
                    We are all with history and across the throat to many who are unable to argue, but minus to slap incognito into the lung !!!

                    I just really didn't understand why a smart and detailed comment got a minus .. Now I find it difficult to assess the value of such individuals both for the site and for the gene pool as a whole. I think the country needs clever people... what
                    Vlad, thanks! drinks
                2. Korsar4
                  Korsar4 30 January 2021 17: 51
                  +4
                  For example, if you find out that a person is allergic to the surname "Filatov" or the word "general" will be easier?
                  1. Pane Kohanku
                    Pane Kohanku 30 January 2021 17: 56
                    +3
                    It will be easier

                    If he has such an allergy, it will be easier to diagnose. Moreover, I have a friend, the Good Doctor. wassat
                    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                      Kote Pan Kokhanka 30 January 2021 18: 23
                      +2
                      Quote: Pan Kohanku
                      It will be easier

                      If he has such an allergy, it will be easier to diagnose. Moreover, I have a friend, the Good Doctor. wassat

                      More practical right away - an enema !!!
                      VikNik calls this audience succinctly and aptly - hamsters.
                      1. Pane Kohanku
                        Pane Kohanku 30 January 2021 18: 46
                        +3
                        VikNik calls this audience succinctly and aptly - hamsters.

                        He does not name it as soon as possible - therefore, the most suffering of us for the truth. lol But he got a well-deserved title! good
                  2. Catfish
                    Catfish 30 January 2021 18: 35
                    +2
                    He is sexophobic and allergic to Pan Kohanku. laughing
                    1. Pane Kohanku
                      Pane Kohanku 30 January 2021 18: 45
                      +3
                      He is sexophobic and allergic to Pan Kohanku.

                      That is, if you do not know that Pane Kokhanku was a man, can you put minuses? laughing drinks
                      1. Catfish
                        Catfish 30 January 2021 18: 57
                        +3
                        And he, maybe, does not care, a man, or a woman, he may still not be able to determine his gender, and expresses his attitude using accessible methods. Look at him like a doctor at a patient from a "quiet" room. laughing
                  3. Sergey M. Karasev
                    Sergey M. Karasev 1 February 2021 18: 49
                    +2
                    Quote: Korsar4
                    For example, if you find out that a person is allergic to the surname "Filatov" or the word "general" will be easier?

                    Register on Military A review with an allergy to the word "general" is ... some kind of masochism !!! laughing laughing
                    1. Korsar4
                      Korsar4 1 February 2021 20: 22
                      +2
                      If there is a term, someone matches it.
              2. Catfish
                Catfish 30 January 2021 18: 32
                +3
                Kolya, hi. hi
                In the second photo from the top, all the people in Russian uniforms, maybe this is a Russian trophy, beaten from the Germans, and not
                already a German trophy,

                Do not blame for meticulousness smile drinks
                1. Pane Kohanku
                  Pane Kohanku 30 January 2021 18: 44
                  +5
                  In the second photo from the top, all the people in Russian uniform

                  Uncle Kostya, I meant this picture.

                  And the helmets there are German. It looks like the cannon was removed, a German "maxim" was put in its place.
                  Here are two more photos of this car:

                  и

                  These are the Germans! request
                  1. hohol95
                    hohol95 30 January 2021 23: 17
                    +3
                    These are the guys from Freikor! Well, the Germans adored "Adam's Head" very much!
                    WikiWiki -
                    At the beginning of 1919, the Freikor detachments led by Gustav Noske suppressed the actions of the German communists and extreme left social democrats, who intended to proclaim Soviet power.
                    Freikor Waldemar Pabst, created on the basis of the Guards Cavalry Rifle Division, Karl Liebknecht and Rosa Luxemburg were killed without trial. The direct performers were Captain Horst von Pflugk-Hartung, Lieutenants Hermann Souchon, Rudolf Lipmann, Heinrich Stiege, Ulrich von Ritgen, Kurt Vogel, and Private Otto Runge.
                    Financial support for Freikors and other formations in the amount of 500 million marks was provided by the Anti-Bolshevik Fund of German Industry, affiliated with the Anti-Bolshevik League of Eduard Stadtler.
                    1. Pane Kohanku
                      Pane Kohanku 1 February 2021 11: 22
                      +1
                      Well, the Germans adored "Adam's Head" very much!

                      Hi Alexey!
                      Ours also adored in 1917 - they formed "parts of death". By the way, crews of armored cars were often recorded there. In this case, they were really more persistent morally in relation to everything that happened after February in the army and navy.
                      For example:
                      https://coollib.com/b/343222-mihail-borisovich-baryatinskiy-bronekollektsiya-1997-n-01-10-broneavtomobili-ostin/read
                      Armored vehicles "Austin" of the 2nd series. 9th armored car division "death", summer 1917.
                      1. hohol95
                        hohol95 4 February 2021 20: 49
                        +1
                        And yet the "Teutons" of "Adam's Head" were in use until 1945!
            2. Catfish
              Catfish 30 January 2021 16: 56
              +3
              The first tank of the Rybinsk plant

              Was it really made in "hardware"?
              1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                Kote Pan Kokhanka 30 January 2021 17: 51
                +2
                Quote: Sea Cat
                The first tank of the Rybinsk plant

                Was it really made in "hardware"?

                I don’t know, I don’t know. But this Uncle Kostya was perhaps the most real and necessary tank in Russia. Alas, we were able to realize only half-tanks before the revolution.
                Later, we already creatively copied and replayed Renault!
                First "Freedom Fighter Comrade Lenin", and then MS-1.
              2. Catfish
                Catfish 30 January 2021 18: 53
                +2
                Damn, what post do you have about the German trophy? I was referring to the second from the top photo, though there is not "Garford" at all.
              3. hohol95
                hohol95 30 January 2021 23: 18
                +2
                Was it really made in "hardware"?

                They could not pile it even in corrugated cardboard lol !
    2. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 30 January 2021 08: 36
      +6
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      The French are such entertainers ... they make a French bun out of weapons.
      But when the Germans or Russians get down to business, they get a real weapon.

      They have very, very mirages. And not only recourse
      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 30 January 2021 09: 06
        +6
        Quote: Krasnodar

        They have very, very mirages. And not only


        Albert, as the Glavkot of the site, I betray you to anfina for mentioning the flying "fornication" on the branch of "creeping" creatures!
        laughing
        For God's sake, do not be offended, but you will receive forgiveness only after you list out loud all the tanks in France !!! am
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 30 January 2021 10: 05
          +5
          1) Schneider and Saint Chamon
          2) Renoshki (R35, NC27, FT 17, UE)
          3) Char 2C
          Continue? )))
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 30 January 2021 16: 14
            +4
            Albert, my compliments. smile
            Exam passed, forgiveness received. laughing
            How did you feel about Leclerc there? I have read completely different reviews about this car. drinks
            1. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar 30 January 2021 16: 17
              +4
              I'm not a tanker))
              The opinion of the guys who served in France is better than Abrams and Merkava. The better - I still don't understand request Nobody compared them with Soviet and Russian tanks. hi
              I think not bad.
              1. Catfish
                Catfish 30 January 2021 16: 22
                +4
                Clear.
                Just on hearing, as a rule, Abrams, Leopards, but our cars, but somehow not very much about the Frenchman.
                1. Krasnodar
                  Krasnodar 30 January 2021 16: 34
                  +4
                  My compliments, Constantine hi
                  Yes, the combat use there by zero - three hundred with a fig tanks in service with the French Armed Forces (not the legion), about 4 hundred in Dubai, which is no different in militancy))
                  Therefore, it is difficult to judge him somehow. One can still say something about AMX-13 - it was used in Operation Musketeer 1956, incl. Heil HaShirion and in 1967 at Sinai. In Six-Day there was a rather epic battle between them and the T-55, when finding a Jewish vanguard consisting of the French, self-propelled mortars and an armored personnel carrier filled with mines, the Arabs immediately blew up the latter, damaging, at the same time, several AMX-owls. The rest were quite ineffective against 55s. Tsakhalats were rescued by M-48, EMNIP, or Shots who came to the rescue. hi
                  1. Catfish
                    Catfish 30 January 2021 16: 52
                    +4
                    Albert, what is it
                    Shots. smile

                    As for the "Half Staple", it is a great car, I learned from them in the training regiment.
                    1. Krasnodar
                      Krasnodar 30 January 2021 17: 05
                      +4
                      Centurions in the Israeli version. 55 - yes, cool. The Jews took a lot of them as trophies, also altered and praised them for themselves. ))
                      1. Catfish
                        Catfish 30 January 2021 17: 15
                        +5
                        The Jews took a lot of them as trophies,

                        So I already wrote that a lot depends on the crew.
                        I had one acquaintance graduate student from UDN, it was in the sixties that he was a translator for our military advisers in Egypt, he said that their officers are still normal guys, and everything below is a complete nightmare, at least something can be conveyed only through beating the muzzle of the face. He himself, a purely civilian man, went on calls when our adviser officers were busy. True, he did not hit the face, the Egyptian officers were engaged in this.
                      2. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 30 January 2021 19: 52
                        +2
                        In Israel, they think differently - Egyptian officers treat their soldiers as garbage, there is no initial sorting of people suitable for each type of army, and where in Israel even at the KMB they will kindly explain and chew everything on their fingers, in Egypt they will beat the face, and as fighters they are not bad, including tankers and gunners.
                      3. Catfish
                        Catfish 30 January 2021 20: 48
                        +2
                        I don't know, if there is someone to explain, then everything can be explained, but a certain category only understands a slap in the face. He served himself, saw enough, and this is with a general incomplete average, and what to take from the fellah.
                      4. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 30 January 2021 21: 51
                        +2
                        So fellah should be assigned as a cook, driver, and logistics. In Egypt, there are enough large and densely populated cities in which there are enough literate young people to recruit for combat units. The Israelis could only crush those Jordanians in mass, and they suffered equal losses with them. The question of selection and proper preparation. hi
                      5. Catfish
                        Catfish 30 January 2021 22: 27
                        +2
                        Well, I won't argue, you better know the local conditions there, because I can only judge by people's stories.
                        And with preparation and selection, we also had problems, whoever was called upon to fulfill the plan. I don't know how it is with the conscripts now, but I think that little has changed - the mentality. request
                      6. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 31 January 2021 07: 58
                        +2
                        In any country in the world, the army is a parasitic (i.e., producing nothing) organization. Its effectiveness is revealed only during war, which happens relatively rarely. Therefore, there is always a mess, it was and will be. Where wars are more frequent, picture some another hi
                    2. hohol95
                      hohol95 30 January 2021 23: 23
                      +1
                      In Egypt, there are enough large and densely populated cities in which there are enough literate young people to recruit for combat units.

                      This means that this literate youth does not seek to join the Egyptian army!
                      From the news feed -
                      Egyptian officer admits the country's army is unable to defeat terrorists in the Sinai
                      ... "Ordinary servicemen have an insufficient level of training, and the officers hardly deal with solving this problem," the man added.
                    3. Krasnodar
                      Krasnodar 31 January 2021 07: 59
                      +1
                      This is preparation, not literacy)).
                    4. hohol95
                      hohol95 4 February 2021 20: 43
                      +1
                      Training of privates or officers? Or both together?
                    5. Krasnodar
                      Krasnodar 4 February 2021 22: 39
                      0
                      Both together
      2. Pane Kohanku
        Pane Kohanku 30 January 2021 17: 32
        +6
        55 - yes, cool. The Jews took a lot of them as trophies, also altered and praised them for themselves. ))

        Jews, as far as I remember. the first to attend to the protection of personnel, and on the basis of captured T-55s made a successful heavy armored personnel carrier "Akhzarit". Prior to that, only the Anglo-Americans were engaged in this, who, on the basis of "Shermans" and Canadian "Rem" tanks, made the "Kangaroo" armored personnel carrier.
        In fact, Albert is respect for Jews for taking care of people. soldier
        Do you guys want to laugh? sad Mine drove off. Went to smoke on the stairs, damn it .. I pulled the door handle (closing), and left the house keys! Sober! In general, the situation of engineer Shchukin, as Anton said - I wrote to him, he neighing. Although I was not naked, I belonged to a lamp cell phone and cigarettes. lol
        Here, I called the door opening service, only now I entered the hut ... request
      3. Korsar4
        Korsar4 30 January 2021 17: 54
        +5
        Maybe a sign: it's time to quit smoking?
      4. Korsar4
        Korsar4 30 January 2021 17: 56
        +4
        However, in the warm entrance (or is it the front one?) I hardly felt the tragedy of the situation.
      5. Pane Kohanku
        Pane Kohanku 30 January 2021 18: 12
        +6
        However, in the warm entrance (or is it the front one?) I hardly felt the tragedy of the situation.

        I used to say "front door" since childhood. My grandmother was a teacher, she started teaching even before the war, she taught me to read. good That's how she said, and I remember. drinks We have an open balcony on the stairs, where I smoke - my smell cannot stand. I think many male smokers have experienced this. But we must respect our girls! love
        Maybe a sign: it's time to quit smoking?

        Sergei, this is a sign that you need to stop being a clinical jerk and check for keys in your pocket before you pull the handle to close it. wassat
        Our employee has a birthday today. Top-class designer, lady, pleasant to talk to, and generally a beautiful woman. love So, in these thoughts I went to smoke, taking my mobile phone, but forgetting the keys! request I congratulated her while smoking ... and then went to the door and realized that I was repeating the experience of engineer Shchukin. belay Thanks to our Anton 3x3zsave - at least he amused me while I stomped on the balcony! drinks
      6. Korsar4
        Korsar4 30 January 2021 18: 19
        +4
        Clear. The pretty woman is to blame.

        Better not to lose concentration.
        However, this happens when overloaded.
      7. Pane Kohanku
        Pane Kohanku 30 January 2021 18: 41
        +4
        However, this happens when overloaded.

        There is no overload yet. So, while I'm building bridges this year. drinks
      8. Catfish
        Catfish 30 January 2021 19: 14
        +4
        "There is no such woman in the world,
        To be able to sadden us.
        Peace of mind is more important
        And women are the last thing! "(C)
      9. Korsar4
        Korsar4 30 January 2021 21: 01
        +4
        “I told Fox:“ The taverns and women will bring him to the zugunder ”(c).
      10. Catfish
        Catfish 30 January 2021 21: 17
        +3
        Well, Nikolai has already been warned, I hope it will not reach the zugunder. smile
        "And now along the tundra, by rail ..." (c)
      11. Korsar4
        Korsar4 30 January 2021 22: 37
        +2
        “I know many will accept,
        I know where there is a spare move ”(c).
      12. Catfish
        Catfish 30 January 2021 23: 12
        +2
        "I know many cats that Scotland Yard is looking for,
        He runs errands, and he is their Bonaparte "(c0
      13. Korsar4
        Korsar4 31 January 2021 03: 12
        +2
        “We all look at Napoleons.
        Biped creatures millions
        For us, the tool is one ”(c).
      14. Catfish
        Catfish 31 January 2021 06: 24
        +2
        "And volleys of thousands of guns merged into a drawn-out howl" (c)
      15. Korsar4
        Korsar4 31 January 2021 06: 39
        +2
        "It's better to sing than howl!" (with).
      16. Catfish
        Catfish 31 January 2021 06: 58
        +2
        "And the one who walks through life with a song,
        He will never disappear anywhere "(c)

        The statement is, of course, controversial.))
      17. Korsar4
        Korsar4 31 January 2021 07: 13
        +3
        “The world needs a song word.
        Sing in your own way, even like a frog ”(c).

        When a person sings, you can see him better.
      18. Catfish
        Catfish 31 January 2021 07: 26
        +2
        Therefore, chanting is prohibited by the charter, among other things. ))

        "Inaudible from birches, weightless
        A yellow leaf flies
        Old waltz "Autumn Dream"
        The accordion player is playing. "(C)

        But the charter does not say a word about the accordion.
      19. Korsar4
        Korsar4 31 January 2021 07: 43
        +3
        “The fighter just took a three-row:
        It is immediately evident - the accordion player "(c).

        If you know how to sing like Kharitonov, anyone will be heard.
      20. Catfish
        Catfish 31 January 2021 08: 38
        +3
        "I knocked once - a specialist, you can see it" (c)
      21. Korsar4
        Korsar4 31 January 2021 08: 41
        +3
        “What kind of peacock are you? Can't you see? We eat ”(c).
      22. Catfish
        Catfish 31 January 2021 08: 46
        +2
        "If I were a sultan, I would have three wives" (c)
      23. Korsar4
        Korsar4 31 January 2021 09: 01
        +3
        "Only a saber for a Cossack in the steppe wife" (c).
      24. Catfish
        Catfish 31 January 2021 09: 18
        +3
        "To whom the mare is a bride" (c)
      25. Korsar4
        Korsar4 31 January 2021 11: 17
        +3
        "Little peasant, are you torturing animals like that ?!" (c).
      26. Catfish
        Catfish 31 January 2021 12: 52
        +2
        "Hey, brothers on the floor, I'm screaming, guys!" (C)
      27. Korsar4
        Korsar4 31 January 2021 13: 19
        +3
        "Whale Academician,
        Academician on cats "(c).
      28. Catfish
        Catfish 31 January 2021 13: 20
        +2
        "The cats are yelling, you laugh, and he left for Baden-Baden" (c)
      29. Korsar4
        Korsar4 31 January 2021 14: 55
        +3
        "And, probably, happy where people are funnier" (c).
      30. Catfish
        Catfish 31 January 2021 20: 37
        +1
        "I'm pretty happy in my comrades" (c)
      31. Korsar4
        Korsar4 31 January 2021 22: 44
        +2
        “- What are your epaulettes worth?
        - I got them with honor.
        And you can't buy them! " (with).
      32. Catfish
        Catfish 31 January 2021 23: 17
        +1
        "You, whose wide overcoats
        Reminded sails
        Whose spurs rang merrily
        And voices. "(C)
      33. Korsar4
        Korsar4 31 January 2021 23: 33
        +2
        "Gray eyes - dawn" (c).
      34. Catfish
        Catfish 31 January 2021 23: 36
        +1
        "At dawn a wounded soldier groans,
        Lovers part at dawn "(c)
      35. Korsar4
        Korsar4 1 February 2021 06: 28
        +2
        "Combat, father" (c).
      36. Catfish
        Catfish 1 February 2021 16: 40
        +1
        "Scarlet dawn was engaged. Scarlet dawn" (c)
      37. Korsar4
        Korsar4 1 February 2021 20: 20
        +2
        "Capercaillie on the current" (c).
      38. Catfish
        Catfish 1 February 2021 21: 04
        +1
        Pahans on the interpreter. laughing
      39. Korsar4
        Korsar4 1 February 2021 22: 39
        +1
        "And in basements and semi-basements
        The kids wanted to get under the tanks ”(c).
      40. Catfish
        Catfish 1 February 2021 22: 44
        +1
        "Tanks rumbled across the field,
        Tankers went to the last battle "(c)
      41. Korsar4
        Korsar4 1 February 2021 23: 24
        +1
        "The head is tied,
        Blood on the sleeve "(c).
      42. Catfish
        Catfish 1 February 2021 23: 58
        +1
        "And along the road there are the dead with braids ... And silence ..." (c)
      43. Korsar4
        Korsar4 2 February 2021 00: 25
        +1
        “Wake up, shoulder!
        Swing, hand! " (with).
      44. Catfish
        Catfish 2 February 2021 01: 07
        +1
        "Oh, these hands, hands of labor!" (C)
      45. Korsar4
        Korsar4 2 February 2021 05: 23
        +1
        “Ah, these nights, nights, nights, nights.
        Do not forget to remove the ring, by the way "(c).
      46. Catfish
        Catfish 2 February 2021 05: 49
        +1
        "Love is a ring, and the ring
        There is no beginning and no end "(c)

        Look at the pistols with Shpakovsky's bayonets.))
      47. Korsar4
        Korsar4 2 February 2021 05: 53
        +1
        Okay. Is everything good there?
      48. Catfish
        Catfish 2 February 2021 06: 59
        +1
        Everything is good and even cool. smile
  5. Catfish
    Catfish 30 January 2021 19: 13
    +4
    ... and generally a beautiful woman.

    "What is destroying us: Wine, Cards and Women!"
    A very popular tattoo among the inmates at one time. laughing
  6. Catfish
    Catfish 30 January 2021 19: 03
    +4
    (or is it still ceremonial?)

    The difference between Moscow and St. Petersburg: front entrance; curb-curb. Words are different - the essence is the same.
  7. Catfish
    Catfish 30 January 2021 19: 04
    +2
    Sergey is right - this is a sign from Above! Quit smoking, otherwise you won't get through next time. laughing
  8. Krasnodar
    Krasnodar 30 January 2021 19: 58
    +3
    It happens request It's good that the mobile phone was charged.
    As for the Jews, they give old stuff for any mess, basically. With good technology.
  • Catfish
    Catfish 30 January 2021 16: 11
    +3
    Vlad, hello! And what is bad about "Mirage"? I, apart from commendable reviews, even in the Soviet special press, have not heard anything bad about him. Of course, a lot, if not everything, depends on the training of the pilot, but this is not the issue. drinks
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 30 January 2021 16: 21
      +3
      Quote: Sea Cat
      Vlad, hello! And what is bad about "Mirage"? I, apart from commendable reviews, even in the Soviet special press, have not heard anything bad about him. Of course, a lot, if not everything, depends on the training of the pilot, but this is not the issue. drinks

      It's not about the mirage. An article about diplodocus and other creeping "creatures"! Mirage is a fluttering toy, off topic however!
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 30 January 2021 16: 24
        +3
        Come on, Comrade Colonel, why find fault with me in vain. We sit, talk, eat, family business. smile drinks
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 30 January 2021 16: 46
          +4
          I don’t scratch too much!
          I just could not resist and made fun of Albert. Prior to that, the truth was a little bit with Vyacheslav Olegovich, who forgot some quotes from his works and began to refute the latter.
          At the same time, everything is fine and fine - thanks to Vyacheslav and Viktor, I finally understood how the "diplodocus" moved !!!
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 30 January 2021 16: 54
            +4
            What kind of quotes? I haven’t figured it out yet.
            1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
              Kote Pan Kokhanka 30 January 2021 18: 00
              +4
              Quote: Sea Cat
              What kind of quotes? I haven’t figured it out yet.

              About the tank of Mendeleev's son "mind games".
              The all-terrain vehicle was "small and had an unfortunate layout."
              Vyacheslav Olegovich, without remembering them, began to refer me to his books !!! laughing
              1. Catfish
                Catfish 30 January 2021 18: 26
                +2
                Creative individuals tend to be somewhat distracted. wink drinks
          2. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 30 January 2021 17: 08
            +3
            Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka
            I don’t scratch too much!
            I just could not resist and made fun of Albert. Prior to that, the truth was a little bit with Vyacheslav Olegovich, who forgot some quotes from his works and began to refute the latter.
            At the same time, everything is fine and fine - thanks to Vyacheslav and Viktor, I finally understood how the "diplodocus" moved !!!

            Yes, I just wrote that in vain they are making fun of French crafts - they release weapons for themselves. And Hennessy Parvdis is valid. Yves Saint Laurent crafts too niche so laughing
  • kalibr
    30 January 2021 08: 40
    +6
    Quote: Lech from Android.
    The French are such entertainers ... they make a French bun out of weapons.

    They made a Renault FT-17 - it redeems everything!
    1. faiver
      faiver 30 January 2021 09: 04
      +6
      They made a Renault FT-17 - it redeems everything!
      - absolutely agree with you hi
      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 30 January 2021 09: 16
        +5
        Quote: faiver
        They made a Renault FT-17 - it redeems everything!
        - absolutely agree with you hi

        Will we, as the homeland of the T-34, be forgiven? laughing
        1. faiver
          faiver 30 January 2021 09: 29
          +5
          Do we need someone's forgiveness? what
          1. kalibr
            30 January 2021 11: 17
            +4
            Quote: faiver
            Do we need someone's forgiveness?

            That's it!
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 30 January 2021 16: 06
              +2
              Hi, Vyacheslav! hi
              An interesting article - the French path to their famous Renault F-17 was long and thorny.
              And about all these monsters, it would be necessary to create a separate heading such as "Kunstkamera VO" and the first issue, out of pure patriotism, place Lebedenko's unit there. smile
              1. kalibr
                30 January 2021 17: 34
                +3
                Quote: Sea Cat
                And about all these monsters, it would be necessary to create a separate heading such as "Kunstkamera VO" and the first issue, out of pure patriotism, place Lebedenko's unit there.

                She would often empty this section ... And Lebedenko, yes, he deserves it 100%.
          2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
            Kote Pan Kokhanka 30 January 2021 16: 51
            +4
            Quote: faiver
            Do we need someone's forgiveness? what

            And redemption for the French?

            To put an end to French tank building, it must be remembered that they, in addition to Renault-FT-17, made the first heavy serial tank, the first serial tank with anti-cannon armor and the first tank with a medium-caliber automatic loader.
            So they are great and without Mirages.
            1. kalibr
              30 January 2021 17: 35
              +3
              Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
              To put an end to French tank building, it must be remembered that they, in addition to Renault-FT-17, made the first heavy serial tank, the first serial tank with anti-cannon armor and the first tank with a medium-caliber automatic loader.

              Ay, yes, Vladislav!
    2. Lech from Android.
      Lech from Android. 30 January 2021 09: 21
      +2
      They made a Renault FT-17 - it redeems everything!

      I do not argue smile ... but I'm more of a fan of the French biplanes of those times ... tanks of course at that time were very primitive. hi
      1. faiver
        faiver 30 January 2021 11: 20
        +1
        tanks of course at that time were very primitive
        - like biplanes smile
        1. Lech from Android.
          Lech from Android. 30 January 2021 12: 26
          +2
          The French SPAD S-7 biplane was one of the best PMV fighters.

          http://www.airaces.ru/warplane/spad-s-7.html
    3. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 30 January 2021 16: 04
      +4
      Quote: kalibr
      They made a Renault FT-17 - it redeems everything!

      style icon, yes.

      but the "whippet" is still faster))
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 30 January 2021 18: 37
        +2
        I mean, quickly brings the crew to the final?))
        1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
          Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 30 January 2021 19: 01
          +1
          it depends on how you look at it. Or takes the crew away from the final)
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 30 January 2021 19: 08
            +2
            With such awkwardness, I somehow can't believe. "And at full speed (5 km per hour), the tanks went on the attack. laughing Or how many "Hound" had (or "Greyhound", I forgot the translation).
            1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
              Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 30 January 2021 19: 10
              +1
              like 14 km / h. You can run away)
              1. Catfish
                Catfish 30 January 2021 19: 16
                +2
                Well, just like a rocket. smile
                1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                  Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 30 January 2021 19: 26
                  +4
                  Well, fullness, Kostya ... 1917 was in the yard)
                  1. Catfish
                    Catfish 30 January 2021 19: 30
                    +3
                    "Tortilla" on the attack ?! laughing Impressive!
                    1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                      Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 30 January 2021 19: 33
                      +3
                      Quote: Sea Cat
                      "Tortilla" on the attack ?! laughing Impressive!

                      Kostya, were impressed by the "tortilla with the landing party":


                      Now try to unsee it! laughing
                    2. Catfish
                      Catfish 30 January 2021 20: 46
                      +3
                      Poor turtle, this is not a "landing", this is a complete zest and a psychological weapon. I don’t know how about a "galloping horse", but a turtle is definitely a skiff if this woman is not thrown off her. Where are the young people and the Society for the Protection of Animals ?! am
  • Catfish
    Catfish 30 January 2021 15: 53
    +5
    Dear comrade Lyokha, you are a little wrong, it was the French during the First World War who came up with that classic tank layout, which, in principle, is still used all over the world (except, perhaps, Israel, the Jews with their "Merkava" went their own way ").
    I mean the French tank Reno F-17.


    The bottom picture shows a Renault BS tank with a 75-mm Schneider howitzer.
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 30 January 2021 16: 27
      +3
      Quote: Sea Cat
      except, perhaps, Israel, the Jews with their "Merkava" went "their own way")

      Swapping MTO! The Swedes went even further with their reckless S-103.
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 30 January 2021 16: 49
        +4
        Only "reckless" designers, a self-propelled gun - it is a self-propelled gun could think of a reckless tank. laughing
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 30 January 2021 18: 08
          +3
          Quote: Sea Cat
          Only "reckless" designers, a self-propelled gun - it is a self-propelled gun could think of a reckless tank. laughing

          In part you are right! Especially considering that the gun was guided by the tank hull!
          But again the French were the first - having pulled out their armored tractors to the battlefields of the First World War!
          Yes, and with the help of the hull horizontally, the first to try "frog" on the B-1ter or bis. Forgotten a little.
          By the way, the Swedes also slammed the Mendeleev idea with the tank's air suspension! Ayda rogues!
          I will not go to the first floor dug up, the cat listened to it, but did not bring any reference books !!! laughing
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 30 January 2021 18: 24
            +2
            But again the French were the first - having pulled out their armored tractors to the battlefields of the First World War!

            Temporary nonsense - when were the French, and when the Swede was released. "Everything new, is it well forgotten old?" laughing
            By the way, the Swedes also slammed the Mendeleev idea with the tank's air suspension! Ayda rogues!

            Hasn't the air suspension been used on other tank models over the half-century difference?
            PS We just had a personal doctor of our Lucky, well, the poor man got it.
            1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
              Kote Pan Kokhanka 30 January 2021 21: 00
              +1
              Quote: Sea Cat
              PS We just had a personal doctor of our Lucky, well, the poor man got it.

              The doctor was taken to the hospital?
              1. Catfish
                Catfish 30 January 2021 21: 13
                +2
                All three got it, because Masha and I kept the bandit while the doctor carried out the necessary manipulations. Thank God for everyone everything went without serious bodily harm. laughing
                1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                  Kote Pan Kokhanka 31 January 2021 16: 26
                  +1
                  The doctor went home, Masha redeemed her guilt with a treat from the refrigerator! Uncle Kostya, did you hide your sneakers from the cat? lol
                  1. Catfish
                    Catfish 31 January 2021 20: 36
                    +1
                    Our cat does not have an ounce of such scum in its character. And in general, he is an esthete, and prefers to make a subscription in the fresh air.
                    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                      Kote Pan Kokhanka 31 January 2021 21: 02
                      +1
                      Respect and respect Laiki! good
                    2. Catfish
                      Catfish 31 January 2021 21: 12
                      +1
                      Has regularly yummy and furry belly scratching. smile
  • kalibr
    30 January 2021 17: 36
    +3
    Quote: Sea Cat
    The bottom picture shows a Renault BS tank with a 75-mm Schneider howitzer.

    The article about him is already ready and on moderation - wait!
  • Undecim
    Undecim 30 January 2021 09: 45
    +8
    The cabin had wheels and could slowly roll along the rails inside the frame, while huge plates, like caterpillar tracks, “paved” the road in front of this monster.

    The movement diagram of this engineering miracle. The military called him diplodocus.
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 30 January 2021 16: 52
      +2
      Thanks Victor Nikolaevich! hi
    2. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 30 January 2021 19: 21
      +6
      Quote: Undecim
      The military called him diplodocus.

      And 70 years later, they would have called ... well, you know)
  • Cowbra
    Cowbra 30 January 2021 10: 37
    +4
    Breto-Preto
    Shirley-Myrley)))
    No, just now, of course, it looks very funny. Although in all centuries such foolish inventions have been enough ... The same "chicken mine" to remember where the fuse was supposed to heat live chickens ...
  • Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I 30 January 2021 12: 10
    +5
    Hmmm ... "dreams, dreams ... where is your sweetness? ...." Judging by the "multitude" of projects, the people of that time already knew that "dreaming is not harmful"! You can add "tanks" by Mendeleev, Porokhovshchikov "to the heap" ...

    And at the beginning of the last century, during the Anglo-Boer War, land armored trains appeared! What are not articulated tanks of that time? Articulated tanks that "attributed" themselves and which the designers were proud of at the end of the same century, and which they "rave" about, even at the beginning of the 21st century! wink


    1. Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I 30 January 2021 12: 25
      +6
      PS And as for the "favorites" of the period immediately after WW1, I refer to "Skeleton" as such!

      That is, a kind of tank "Lego"! Well, what? You just need to have a "skeleton" ... and there you added only a "module" (any!) And the new equipment is ready: even a tank, even an SPG (and, any: assault or other ...), even an armored personnel carrier! fellow
      I think so !
      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 30 January 2021 16: 30
        +3
        Quote: Nikolaevich I
        oh there, a kind of tank "Lego"! Well, what? You just need to have a "skeleton" ... and there you added only a "module" (any!) And the new equipment is ready: even a tank, even an SPG (and, any: assault or other ...), even an armored personnel carrier!


        As far as I have seen in the literature, the Skeleton designers have trivially solved the issue of overcoming lunar landscapes with a small amount of armored space.
  • Knell wardenheart
    Knell wardenheart 30 January 2021 13: 29
    +4
    Strictly speaking, the idea by that time was already very tangible - a tractor already existed as such, the principle of a caterpillar was known and developed for it, there were armored vehicles in which to a certain extent the issues of integrating weapons and armor were worked out.
    Progress in the growth of engine power was already underway, at least in aircraft construction, airship construction and the creation of submarines. That is, the developments, in general, were all industrialized countries. However, the key to the idea of ​​the tank was the idea of ​​a functional, highly passable tractor with a powerful engine - without this, the tank would have been incapable of combat. So the forerunner of the idea of ​​a tank should be looked for in the most successful designs of tractors of that era - all these engineering vehicles with speeds of 1-2 km / h are a complete shame.
  • Graz
    Graz 30 January 2021 14: 02
    +3
    something like a tank-skeleton looks like the first photo
  • Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
    Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 30 January 2021 15: 48
    +5
    Cutting them with special scissors was first of all dangerous.


    but there were ideas)
    I mean killen straight with torpedo net cutter)
    November 1915, XNUMX

    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 30 January 2021 16: 34
      +2
      I do not know? I think from my bell tower that it was easier to come up with an anchor with a winch. An anchor with a chain is thrown over the wire fences and then the whole thorn is pulled out by a steam winch.
      1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
        Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 30 January 2021 16: 50
        +4
        The French fired a harpoon from a mortar into a thorn and pulled back with a collar. Not effective.
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 30 January 2021 18: 11
          +2
          Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
          The French fired a harpoon from a mortar into a thorn and pulled back with a collar. Not effective.

          It was necessary to mechanize this process using a steam engine or internal combustion engine!
          1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
            Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 30 January 2021 19: 31
            +3
            Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
            It was necessary to mechanize this process using a steam engine or internal combustion engine!

            Well, Kote, I think, the degree of seething engineering thought during WWI was undoubtedly high, you should not demand too much from the standpoint of afterthought))
      2. Pane Kohanku
        Pane Kohanku 30 January 2021 17: 47
        +3
        An anchor with a chain is thrown over the wire fences and then the whole thorn is pulled out by a steam winch.

        This was embodied by officer Viktor Poplavko in his Jeffery "assault armored vehicle". Not only was the chassis of the armored car all-wheel drive, Polpavko also invented a "crushing device". Well, both cats and assault bridges were also used on these machines. "Jeffery" were consolidated into a separate division, and were intended to break through enemy defenses. They waited in the wings, but did not wait - they were used like ordinary armored cars.
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 30 January 2021 18: 19
          +3
          Nikolay thanks, honestly did not know about it !!!
          1. Pane Kohanku
            Pane Kohanku 30 January 2021 18: 38
            +3
            Nikolay thanks, honestly did not know about it !!!

            Nikolay Filatov on checking the car of Poplavko "Sorcerer" wrote: "The test results are amazing!" good The car approached the trenches and lines of wire at the range. With the help of the cats, they pulled the wire apart, built an assault bridge, and crossed the trench. Everything was done quickly and efficiently. yes
            Poplavko himself proposed a separate tactic for his armored cars: dozens of vehicles approach the enemy lines of defense at dawn. In each there is a landing of several people, armed with grenades, daggers and "Mauser" - apparently, he meant, nevertheless, a pistol, as a rapid-fire weapon - submachine guns and assault rifles were not yet known then. The armored cars are pulling the wire apart and approaching the trenches. A landing party of armored cars throws grenades and breaks into the trenches. The first line has been cleared. Assault bridges, also carried on armored cars, are brought through the trenches, the cars move on. The same is repeated with all trench lines. Main "dense chain of infantry", according to Poplavko, follows - "there will be no fire on it". stop
            In essence, Viktor Poplavko was the first to propose the assault tactics of motorized rifle units! soldier He ended badly - he died during the repressions in the USSR. recourse A photo of him in the commentary above - it is he who jumps off the steps of the "Sorcerer" stuck at the training ground. soldier
            Poplavko's armored cars were intended for a special mission - to break through enemy positions during an offensive operation. Therefore, their armament was from two machine guns in abrasions in front and behind, the embrasures had a limited angle of fire. As I said, they were consolidated into a separate Special Purpose Division, and did not wait for their hour - during the collapse of the front in 1917, they were used like ordinary armored cars. A number of them were captured by the Austrians (there is a photo), some were "Ukrainianized". But some also served the Soviet regime!