Military Review

"We'll see!" On the importance of the media and publicity of "burning" issues

122

In a number of articles by the author, the issues of critical shortcomings of new ships and extremely acute problems of the real combat capability of the Navy were raised earlier.


Questions arise: "What to do"? And most importantly - "How?"

first... This is an awareness of the severity and causes of problems, the need for their unconditional solution.

Second... In criticism, it is very important to have constructive proposals for solving the identified problems ("technical solutions").

The third... Management decisions that are effective taking into account all the existing "organizational insanity" ("organizational decisions").

It is necessary to understand that, given the current system, even high-ranking officials have limited (sometimes quite) managerial capabilities to solve complex complex problems. When they are interspecific and interdepartmental. And it is doubly especially when the big interests of "authoritative businessmen" and "fat cats" of the defense industry complex are involved in the case.

Perhaps it will not "explode"!


Conversation at the 2017 International Maritime Defense Show. The developer's representative conducts a “tour of the company's stand,” which the author has joined. You need to be able to ask the right questions at the right time. And he followed when it came to "innovative power lithium ion battery."

"We'll see!" On the importance of the media and publicity of "burning" issues

It is installed on a torpedo instead of a disposable one for practical shooting.
Dialogue (verbatim):

- Tell me, do you continue to fail at her control and protection unit?
- There are.
- Do you understand what this can lead to ?!
- Of course, we are qualified engineers!
- So why?
- Well, explosion and fire.
- Where ?! Where are you going to put it?
- Well, on a submarine. But let's hope this doesn't happen.

The author made inquiries about the specialist with whom he spoke. To be honest, I was asked not to pull this history “To the public”, literally (about a specialist of the enterprise):

He is a good specialist, and he just hadn't been taught to lie there yet.

A couple of examples of what the effects of a lithium-ion battery explosion look like.


Very small laptop battery.


Tesla battery

Video of the explosion and fire of "Tesla" (with a lithium-ion battery) on the Moscow Ring Road (Moscow).


Tesla's engines are rated at 225, 270 or 310 kW. The battery in question ("Lyon") was made for a product with an engine power of 390 kW.


The torpedo battery compartment is highlighted in red, the electric motor is in blue. Source.

What is an explosion and fire of ammunition on a torpedo deck? Clearly.


Explosion and fire of torpedo ammunition on the submarine "Sindurakshak"

Moreover, "everyone understood and understands everything."

Maxim (author of the article), 08:02, February 11, 2014 (reply to the chief lobbyist and representative of KMPO in Moscow):

Based on what "hydra" and you personally pushed into the fleet a product that never did not pass tests in the standard configuration (with a combat battery), and from which you and your you shy away like the devil from incense (I mean "Comrade Kant"), batteries that have not passed safety tests, with forged documents. you are aware of the explosion and fire of a lithium ion battery on torpedo deck?
Link.

Report officially? Yes, there were reports, and multiple reports.

The main military prosecutor's office? There it, too, "did not arouse interest," replied the fleet. In the style "everything is fine, beautiful marquise".

December 2019, writes (on one of the special forums) "Extraordinary employee of DOGOZ" (Department of the Ministry of Defense for the State Defense Order):

I read the letter of the head of DOGOZ to the replacement Bursuk [Deputy Chief of the Navy for Shipbuilding and Armaments Vice Admiral I. Mukhametshin - MK]. Worthy people came from one organization, complaining that DOGOZ slows down progress and destroys Lyon ... They showed everyone, except DOGOZ, the signed decision on the introduction of "Lyon" in 2503, etc. He recommended to solve with the DOGOZ, he did not send an intercessor, it would be more expensive to send such ... June 2019. Letter DOGOZ was written in April 2019... Well, then, as you rightly noted, "Losharik" happened...

In this "everything is fine", and in DOGOZ, which only in 2019 "suddenly saw the light" (and in fact - "covered the fifth point" with a piece of paper) that it can "explode and blaze" (on the torpedo decks of submarines). And the fleet, which, understanding all the possible consequences (explosion and fire on the torpedo deck), nevertheless “signed and agreed” ...
And everything is very simple:

"Decent people came from one organization ... It is more expensive to send such people ...".

Note. The word "Losharik" sounded above. In the context of a serious accident with human lives and a heroic struggle for the survivability of the crew of the AS-31 nuclear deep-water station (unofficial name "Losharik"). There were no such illegal things on "Losharik". This can be stated with certainty.


"Losharik" on a carrier.

In the case of Lyon, it was different. Torpedoes with deliberately "problematic" batteries that did not pass the required tests (including safety tests) were shoved onto the boats by all crooks. That is, it is not even "negligence", but much worse.

And the Losharik is an example of the nature of the consequences if the Lyon entered the fleet. Only the scale would have been incomparably worse, given the presence of ammunition "around".

Society and media


What is the conclusion of all this?

Even a principled and responsible officer, even the highest (admiral), are within the framework of the established system.

Situation on navy, in the Ministry of Defense and the defense industry is such that even a high-ranking and honest leader is in a very strict framework of what he can do. And he cannot do very much. Or maybe, but only if someone does part of what is needed "bypassing the system."

And in this situation, the role of honest mass media is not only to inform society (including about serious problems), but also to give responsible leaders what they can effectively use “at the top” in the interests of the country and business.

Specific situation. A longtime acquaintance says that he is ready to put documents on the problems of the Navy on the table (to a very high-ranking person), but a strict condition:

"So that even the chipboard (" for official use ") is not there."

The point is that these documents cannot be used by villains against the boss himself, having brought them under the DSP or "stamp" on "formal grounds".

Result. The digest of articles that are in the public domain goes to the top. Yes, you cannot say much in the open media, and in reality everything is much worse. But at least so, than not at all.

Lessons from "Nerpa"


On November 8, 2008, during sea trials in the Sea of ​​Japan on the Nerpa nuclear submarine, 20 members of the delivery team and the submarine's crew were killed due to the unauthorized operation of the LOKh fire extinguishing system and its filling with a poisonous composition. The perpetrators of the terrible state of emergency were “appointed” by the submarine commander D. Lavrentyev and the bilge sailor D. Grobov.

Previously, the author has already described the situation around this order in the "Military-Industrial Courier" - "The tragedy on the Nerpa: facts and questions" part1 и Part 2.

However, the most important for understanding both the causes of the tragedy in November 2008 and the situation on the Nerpa in general is the report of the commander of the nuclear submarine, Captain 1st Rank Lavrentyev, dated ... March 5, 2011 (!):

“... at 0 hours 38 minutes on the Nerpa nuclear submarine, the software of the Molybden-I remote automated control system for general ship systems (SDAU OKS) failed, as a result of which without operator command the alarm for the differential pressure in the pipelines of the LOH system (boat volumetric chemical alarm about the supply of a fire extinguisher to the compartment) was triggered, the left column of the OKS CPU was out of order and remained inoperative ...

Based on the results of the commission's work, it was established:

1. The system was technically faulty and did not provide operation for its intended purpose.

2. The alleged cause is a malfunction (failure) in the operation of the main software processor controlling the system operation.

In view of the above, I note that the automatic system event recorder recorded the command, ... as a command given by the operator, although in fact the command was not given to the watchkeepers.

Representative of NPO Aurora (enterprise - system developer) specialist V.G. Lukova cannot give objective explanations in essence of the detected failure, since she is not a system programmer. The reason for the actuation of the fire extinguisher supply sensors of the LOH system is also not established.

Lavrentiev's report contains the whole essence of the "Nerpa case". There is a party who wants to not fulfill the contract at any cost, but to "push" it away. And there is another side, which, proceeding from a sense of duty and understanding the full measure of personal responsibility for solving the assigned task, requires high-quality execution of the state order. On the last one there are both people in uniform and civilian specialists who have retained their honor and conscience, who understand the negative consequences of the problems of the Indian customer with the Nerpa.

Rear Admiral Voitovich (Pacific Fleet) on the investigation of the Nerpa:

The tactical and technical assignment for the design, development and manufacture of the latest control system for general ship systems, in particular, remote automated control of the fire extinguishing system, is absent in the criminal case, it has not been studied in any way, the assessment of this TTZ has not been given. All the petitions of the defense and the accused to add these documents to the materials by the prosecutor's office were rejected twice.

What followed is a very relevant and for today example of a real solution to one of the acute problems of the Navy and a fair court decision.

Despite the obvious fabrication of the criminal case against the members of the Nerpa's naval crew (and against the background of rejection of any real investigative actions against the persons who poured poison into the fire extinguishing system (and the facts of massive automatic failures)), there was a clear state of doom in relation to the accused ...

I will not give the well-known names (of the officials) that were used in this case, but in fact everything remained “the crew was appointed guilty”.

The author of this article worked for a long time with Admiral G. Suchkov, an adviser to the Minister of Defense of the Russian Federation, and invited interested persons from the Nerpa's crew to go to him. But they no longer believed in anything or anyone.

The event that turned the "outlined course of events" was a post on the Sevastopol forum:


The next day, the author prepared a set of materials for Admiral Suchkov about what happened on the Nerpa, where the first item was the citation of this post. After reading it (and not yet reaching the main part), Suchkov grabbed the receiver and called the commander of the Pacific Fleet S. Avakyants, literally (there was a loud voice in the receiver, and everything was clearly audible):

"What's happening? Why wasn’t any help and support provided to the commander? ”

We will omit the details of Avakyants' answer. Those who have closely followed the situation understand with sufficient accuracy what was being discussed. But I will quote the last two phrases (literally):

“Everything has already been decided. Nothing can be changed.

To which Suchkov replied with the words included in the title of this material:

"We'll see!"

Then a number of actions were taken to maximize public disclosure of the fabricated circumstances of the shameful criminal case and the real reasons and facts of the tragedy that took place on the Nerpa.

The public reaction also played a very large and positive role here, especially the active participation of the "Submariners' Club".

Bottom line: the truth still triumphed.

Yes, not all. For the wrongly accused only. And no one was looking for the real culprits (some of them very quickly left the country "for a very long treatment abroad").

But this took place only thanks to the tough public disclosure: both the circumstances of the tragedy and the problems. Including thanks to the honest work of the media.

And this applies not only to Nerpa.

The incident made it necessary to open and actually eliminate serious problems of automation of the 4th generation of new submarines of the Navy
(before that, its "glitches", up to the unauthorized operation of fire extinguishing systems, were not only on the "Nerpa", but also in the orders of the 4th generation, built in Severodvinsk). Moreover, in the circle of specialists there were serious doubts that they, in general, could be eliminated. For "organizational reasons."

That is, the Nerpa (its automation, the same for our entire fourth generation of submarines) was brought up (more precisely, the development of events forced the VIPs of the industry to set the task of unconditionally fine-tuning the automation of new submarines).


"Chakra" (ex-"Nerpa") with advanced automation successfully solves problems in the Indian Navy.

"Troubled Admiral"


Against the background of all the problems of our shipbuilding, a series of Project 11356 frigates and Project 6363 submarines for the Black Sea Fleet is perceived as an absolute success.

And a very large role in this was played by Admiral G.A. Suchkov. Moreover, these decisions themselves (his proposals and actions) at the time of adoption were assessed by specialists very ambiguously, with sharp criticism of the shortcomings of these ships.

In addition, the author himself raised these sensitive issues in communication with Suchkov.

The answer was:

“The ships need nosebleeds now. The disadvantages are understandable, but they can be eliminated later through modernization. "

Admiral Suchkov was the one who started the reconstruction of the Main Command of the Navy, which was defeated in the course of thoughtless "reform" at the turn of 2010.

And it was not "in a narrow circle", he requested proposals on this part from many initiative officers. This resulted in a number of documents addressed to the Chief of the General Staff and the Minister of Defense, which had positive consequences.

Are there different opinions on the issue?

He arranged not just "boxing", but a head-on collision of different sides in his presence, he demanded real comparative tests.

For example, the last comparative torpedo firing was carried out in the mid-2000s. After the "torpedo scandal" with the batteries, they were carried out precisely at his request (after an appeal to the Minister, and with a corresponding decision).


Yes, Gennady Aleksandrovich was not always right (only the one who does nothing is not mistaken). For example, the subject of sharp (sometimes extremely sharp) discussions with him were questions of hydroacoustics.

But he really "fought" for the cause, not being afraid to cross the "formal framework".

Admiral Suchkov died in August 2013.

PS


A serious question arises about the veterans of the fleet (including senior officers and admirals). About their position on today's most pressing problems of the Navy (stealth against new means of searching for submarines, conditions with air cover for the forces of the fleet and bases, underwater weapons and especially anti-torpedo protection, etc.), with which our fleet, entering the war against any serious enemy, is waiting for the next "Tsushima pogrom."

And this is not only the factor "to honestly report to the society" (or the Supreme). This is also very important in order to really help those who are now in the ranks of the RF Armed Forces.

Someone who understands the severity of the situation, but does not have the ability (within the framework of the current system) to really change something.
Author:
122 comments
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  1. 7,62h54
    7,62h54 22 January 2021 15: 05
    +43
    Maxim, thank you for the tireless battle for the Russian fleet!
    1. Crowe
      Crowe 22 January 2021 15: 33
      +34
      I am a worthy man and a naval officer not indifferent to the Navy. I respect such people.
      "A good man is one who does great and noble deeds, even if he risks everything."
      Plutarch
    2. Alien From
      Alien From 23 January 2021 18: 38
      +2
      I join you! An article riddled with pain! Hopefully Maxim is not fighting windmills! Thanks and good luck to him! hi
      1. Akuzenka
        Akuzenka 25 January 2021 15: 40
        +1
        There is a party who wants to not fulfill the contract at any cost, but to "push" it away.
        Capitalism!
  2. Mikhail3
    Mikhail3 22 January 2021 15: 18
    +24
    Well, what do you fucking burnt want? Funds have been allocated for innovation. These funds went to whoever needs it. People you can't refuse. What should they do with these funds now? No, you can, of course, start all sorts of research there. But then the money for them will go away! Where does that go ?! Just to make a regular contribution to "who needs it", people who cannot be denied are forced to give 60% of the allocated amount. And yourself? You need it too!
    So it turns out that 10-15 percent of the allocated amounts remain for research. With this money, you can only slap a case with connectors and buy cheaper batteries in China. What else is the author waiting for ?! This is how it works, and this is how it works. Can't work differently. The mechanism is as follows ...
    1. frog
      frog 22 January 2021 15: 26
      +17
      Well, what do you fucking burnt want?

      I can say what I don't want. I don't want it to be the way Klimov writes, and not only him. And not only in the navy. Because almost always you can do it not through the dupu. True, this will require sending some "respected people". Which is very difficult. But we know too well what non-sending leads to. And bury people who died due to someone's trivial greed ...
      1. Mikhail3
        Mikhail3 25 January 2021 09: 39
        +1
        Quote: frog
        I can say what I don't want.

        What you don't want is the basis of the state system that has been built now. She stands on it, you know? We have created not a single industry (except, perhaps, the nuclear industry) that would be arranged as a workable enterprise. All systems made in 30 years are systems for pumping money out of the budget, that is, resource rent. All this has absolutely nothing to do with production, science and technology.
        At the moment, the higher authorities are trying to use what they have built as working devices. And they are ... non-working. Moreover, they are sharpened for the destruction of workable industries that are still gurgling, do not want to sink. They don’t need competitors in “borrowing money”. All this is sad ...
        1. frog
          frog 25 January 2021 12: 35
          +1
          Yes, I am aware of the realities ..... But it was about Wishlist, and not about them, sort of like. And how this whole hat is arranged - alas, I know. Therefore, it is funny to read replicas ... ... about ... various about usihmaguchestvo and achievements ... Wishlist something to do with?))
          1. Mikhail3
            Mikhail3 25 January 2021 14: 20
            0
            Strengthen, deepen, improve will not work. Our desires (I, of course, want the same) in this coordinate system are unrealizable.
            1. frog
              frog 25 January 2021 14: 29
              +1
              Certainly. But I want what to do here)) Otherwise, the result is predictable crying
    2. Vladimir1155
      Vladimir1155 22 January 2021 23: 02
      +4
      I agree ..... unfortunately ..... and so we have not only in the navy ... love of money at all levels, and the absence of at least one person responsible for the truth and the people, ... although there was no ..... Sechin put Ulyukaev in prison when he hinted that Sechin (read Putin) should give him a bribe to Ulyukaev! must give a bribe to Ulyukaev .... they put him in jail for arrogance, but if the ministers brazenly extort ... the system of appointments and control needs to be changed, Stalin come!
  3. rocket757
    rocket757 22 January 2021 15: 36
    +16
    SERVE THE MOTHERLAND, and not yourself and someone else ...
    As long as there are honest, selfless people, the country has a chance to go through all the hardships and remain as a great Power.
  4. Galleon
    Galleon 22 January 2021 15: 37
    +23
    This is also very important in order to really help those who are now in the ranks of the RF Armed Forces.

    How I was waiting for these words in VO! Dear author, Maxim, thank you! Fortress and strength to you!
  5. faiver
    faiver 22 January 2021 16: 39
    +24
    You read this and a wave of indignation rises inside, after reading the question arises - maybe Mekhlis was right in arranging executions of some commanders on the ground in front of the formation? I also wonder why Avakyants is still in office? And how is it served to the officers under his command if they know that if something happens, he will give them to the slaughter? ...
    Author Well done, respect and respect ...
    1. Aviator_
      Aviator_ 22 January 2021 19: 00
      +5
      maybe Mehlis was right in arranging executions of some commanders on the ground in front of the formation?

      The image of Mekhlis is very scared, it seems that he was not such a devil of hell as a number of writers portrayed him.
      1. faiver
        faiver 22 January 2021 19: 06
        +4
        The image of Mekhlis is badly baked
        - there is such a thing, but he did not shy away from executions, and whether he was right or not, it is difficult to judge now, different times, different customs, norms and so on ... hi
        1. Aviator_
          Aviator_ 22 January 2021 19: 10
          +3
          other times, other customs, norms and so on ...

          They are different now, but it was then that such a respected writer as Konstantin Simonov was obsessed (though moderately). However, I'm not sure what exactly then, it seems, it was after the death of Mehlis.
          1. faiver
            faiver 22 January 2021 19: 15
            +5
            Current generations do not read Simonov, they do not need it, you watch modern films, they show Beria and Stalin at least in places normal, Mehlis is everywhere like a vampire from hell ... hi
            1. Aviator_
              Aviator_ 22 January 2021 19: 36
              +8
              I really do not like modern films that is why - they are primitive and straightforward. Straight, so to speak, like a bowel. Perhaps only "28 Panfilov's men" and "Brest Fortress" are normal.
              1. faiver
                faiver 22 January 2021 19: 43
                +5
                It is what it is hi
              2. puskarinkis
                puskarinkis 23 January 2021 21: 20
                +1
                I would also add "Podolsk cadets". There, the lack of "political education" even hurts the eye! Political workers are an integral part of that time and they are needed not only to intrigue the soldiers, in the intervals between drinking and shooting, as shown in most films. Someone had to explain to a politically illiterate recruit why and for what he should fight, even, it happened, they showed how. Apparently, the right ideas should have been invested, since now you can show, either badly or in no way ...
                1. Aviator_
                  Aviator_ 23 January 2021 21: 27
                  +4
                  I have not seen "Podolsk cadets". But political work is still needed, it is the political worker who must explain to the personnel what he is doing here, and for which sometimes he will have to die. Moreover, he (the political worker) must be able to fight himself, that is, in time to say "do as I do," and not "do as I said."
    2. A_Lex
      A_Lex 23 January 2021 00: 20
      +6
      maybe Mekhlis was right


      And what, is it still not clear that the system was instilled with bottomless humanism solely for the sake of the Gentlemen, the Ugly creatures sat on their heads with impunity and hung their legs? Although some, perhaps, still do not understand. They, apparently, are patiently waiting, when, finally, the conscience of the freaks will wake up. The only problem is that * the clan is a person whose conscience has atrophied.
  6. LAWNER
    LAWNER 22 January 2021 17: 14
    +22
    Something I was even confused about reading the material. After the third reading, it became quite sad ... Well, the military prosecutor is looking for when "happened", but counter intelligence must find it before that. And then the Clients also went abroad for treatment ...
    The price of an ammunition submarine is equal to the price of an average city. And how much is the life of the Sailors ... Yes, half of these scoundrels under the keel must be dragged. The rest should be softened with a dry shot from a torpedo tube against the pier.
    1. voronin
      voronin 22 January 2021 17: 42
      +27
      Quote: LAWNER
      Yes, half of these bastards should be dragged under the keel. The rest should be softened with a dry shot from a torpedo tube against the pier.

      This is lynching. How missed him ... am
    2. antivirus
      antivirus 22 January 2021 17: 45
      +1
      so we lived to see the question - WHY START THE AB CASE IN 100 TONS OF VI? SO AGE AND DANGEROUS XXX?
      the policy is carried out correctly - from small to large - not ready for AB.
      zaphnut in it (compressed in volume and footage of the village-district center) old pribluda from 70-80-hgg in 2030?
      1. Bow
        Bow 22 January 2021 18: 59
        +4
        Quote: antivirus
        not ready for AB.
        to puff into it <..> an old pribluda from 70-80-хгг in 2030?

        Boatswain mean?
  7. Vovan
    Vovan 22 January 2021 18: 14
    -9
    - Tell me, do you continue to fail at her control and protection unit?
    - There are.
    - Do you understand what this can lead to ?!
    - Of course, we are qualified engineers!
    - So why?
    - Well, explosion and fire.
    - Where ?! Where are you going to put it?
    - Well, on a submarine. But let's hope this doesn't happen.

    I laughed for a long time ... can the author explain how the transmission of a new product occurs? Any test and control firing there? and other-other-other?
    PS :) Although I understood that you are doing the right job, you just don't need to sketch out frank things for hamsters: the value of the work is lost.
    1. timokhin-aa
      22 January 2021 19: 11
      +15
      Any test and control firing there?


      Well, how has USET-80 NEVER been tested in the ice layers on homing? But she has been in service for 40 years.

      This is how it is done with us, but I get on here you throw it.
      1. K298rtm
        K298rtm 22 January 2021 20: 45
        0
        1. Our infrastructure on the Northern Fleet is not designed to support ice firing.
        2. In my opinion, first of all, it is necessary to ensure the detection of the torpedo at the time of the shot.
        1. timokhin-aa
          30 January 2021 21: 40
          -1
          From Maxim's answer

          ... Our infrastructure on the Northern Fleet is not designed to support ice firing.


          MK: everything is solved normally, in the presence of BRAIN and WILL. For example, it is stupid to shoot NEAR THE EDGE with TR from under the PRV (they were "strangled", they were not allowed into the series (with TR), but there are several samples), and with the provision of "Harp" (and "Harps" with a low level of electronic noise), stupidly leading the product after firing to "clean water" for lifting (after one and the TL modes to work out).
          And that's just one option.

          By the way, the "chiefs" "jerked" to conduct ice firing, until the experts explained to them HOW it would end ... Then they began to extract bathyspheres from the warehouse (torpedoes are STRONGLY).
          Everyone is "extracting" ...
      2. Xenofont
        Xenofont 22 January 2021 20: 56
        +4
        Yes, health to you, mental and physical! With such a "Hydra" to fight, you can lose all faith in people.
  8. Boa kaa
    Boa kaa 22 January 2021 18: 29
    +12
    Maxim, you are still at war!
    (A la guerre comme à la guerre ...)
    God grant that Courage and determination will not leave you in your asceticism. Health to you and GOOD LUCK in FIGHT with the free application adhering to the FLEET!
    Sincerely, Boa.
  9. Vadim237
    Vadim237 22 January 2021 18: 33
    -9
    In addition to the fleet, Russia has problems for at least 89 trillion rubles in the form of wear and tear on half of the country's fixed assets - so be content in the fleet with what they give above your head, the fleet will be in last place for financing for many years to come.
    1. Bow
      Bow 22 January 2021 19: 31
      +8
      And over these long years, another 89 trillion of "fixed assets" will wear out. And so on ad infinitum. And business will never reach the fleet.
      No peace, no war and disband the army? What are your suggestions in this regard?)
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 22 January 2021 21: 41
        -7
        This is how the economy will go up and there will be at least 10% growth per year for 10 years - then there will be money for the fleet in the right amount, but for now the fleet is in last place in terms of financing - because what it will definitely not get to is the war of the Russian fleet is far no one will fight with us at sea from their borders, and we are the same. All immediate and distant hostilities will have a land-border character.
        1. Aag
          Aag 23 January 2021 20: 26
          +3
          Quote: Vadim237
          This is how the economy will go up and there will be at least 10% growth per year for 10 years - then there will be money for the fleet in the right amount, but for now the fleet is in last place in terms of financing - because what it will definitely not get to is the war of the Russian fleet is far no one will fight with us at sea from their borders, and we are the same. All immediate and distant hostilities will have a land-border character.

          Do you want to hang economic problems on the author?))
          A man, with a capital, capital letter (Maxim Klimov) on his "front section" (you can, probably, without quotes) fights! For the defense of the Country, for the lives of servicemen, the peace of their families. And for decent salaries of workers, pensions of pensioners! Paphos? But in fact it is.
          IMHO, the best alternative (sorry for the comparison) to rallies-shmitings ...
          It seems that if in each branch of our vast, but pretty shabby economy, such People would remain and mature, the Country would have a chance for a decent, even (bloodless) development. Bow to the author, and another thanks ... But the thought does not give rest: How can I help, to assist? Such people do not ask for help ... But they need support. How can the inhabitants of the VO help? Any opinions? Naval, Caring answer!
        2. frog
          frog 24 January 2021 17: 28
          +1
          This is how the economy will go up and will grow at least 10% per year for 10 years

          That is - never to the power n ??
  10. ccsr
    ccsr 22 January 2021 18: 36
    +3
    Author:
    Maxim Klimov
    In the case of Lyon, it was different. Torpedoes with deliberately "problematic" batteries that did not pass the required tests (including safety tests) were shoved onto the boats by all crooks. That is, it is not even "negligence", but much worse.

    Without entering into polemics with the author, I still want to clarify some details about these batteries. The development of lithium BATTERIES in the course of R&D, and not only disposable batteries, began in the USSR in the early eighties, including by order of our power structures. Without going into details, I will only remind you that among the electrochemical vapors known to science, it was lithium vapors that turned out to be the most explosive, and even the slightest ingress of air or moisture led to an instant explosion. The naval structures, as I understand it, were faced with the task of choosing either the rejection of the silver-zinc batteries, which are relatively safe but expensive, or the transition to more dangerous lithium batteries, which had higher specific characteristics, which made it possible to increase the firing range and speed of the torpedoes themselves. I think that the problem was put on the back burner after the collapse of the USSR and now when they realized it, it turned out that it is technologically impossible to create a reliable lithium-ion current source in our country, if only because we are seriously behind in this area of ​​the electrical industry.
    That is why all the lamentations about these batteries should begin first of all with the question - which of the naval ones ordered the development of these batteries and did they have any idea about the dangers during their operation? And now some naval truth-tellers began to "forget" where the legs of this problem grow from, and how honestly the customers evaluated all the risks, and how much the industry has greased them to get a profitable development. And then somehow it turns out surprisingly - it seems that something was created (though I did not understand whether they were accepted into service, or only tests are underway), and now they suddenly realized that there was a problem of exploitation. I would like to hear from the author who and where developed these batteries, who approved the TTZ for them, who was the chairman of the commission for accepting these R&D, so that the public figure out who is to blame for the situation. Then we will be able to understand either this is just the stupidity of the military, or their criminal act, when, for selfish purposes, they created obviously dangerous weapons.
    PS By the way, for fans of Elon Musk's products, most of those who have been involved in accidents with damaged batteries will simply die either from an explosion or from a severe fire. But Tesla's advertisers will never tell you about it.
    1. timokhin-aa
      30 January 2021 21: 37
      -1
      Ensign TsSSRe:
      Without entering into polemics with the author,


      MK: Monsieur, YOU do not pretend to be a rag (taking into account how YOU "blazed" and "burst")

      Ensign TsSSRe:
      and even the slightest penetration of air or moisture led to an instant explosion.


      MK: LIE.

      Ensign TsSSRe:
      it turned out that technologically it is now impossible to create a reliable lithium-ion current source


      MK: FALSE

      Ensign TsSSRe:
      if only because we are seriously behind in this area of ​​the electrical industry.


      MK: for a number of serious positions, we have a very strong initial and technical groundwork, - THANKS TO EXCLUSIVELY A NUMBER OF REAL SCIENTISTS AND PATRITS OF THE COUNTRY, and CONTRADIC to the "industrial policy" of the Ministry of Primtorg

      Ensign TsSSRe:
      That is why all the moaning about these batteries should begin first of all with the question - who from the naval ordered the development of these batteries?


      MK: NOBODY. This is exclusively "drank" MPT

      Ensign TsSSRe:
      who approved the TTZ for them, who was the chairman of the commission for accepting these R&D


      MK: NOBODY. Navy TK (namely TK and not TTZ) set, "Hydra" did not like it very much.

      Ensign TsSSRe:
      so that the public figure out who is to blame for the situation. Then we will be able to understand either this is just the stupidity of the military, or their criminal act, when, for selfish purposes, they created obviously dangerous weapons.


      MK: there "all the facts are on the face" - see "Gendarovskie dialogues", starting in 2012. (a fragment of which is given in the article) - "all moves are recorded" and it is clear who is where and what
      1. ccsr
        ccsr 31 January 2021 13: 11
        0
        Quote: timokhin-aa
        MK: Monsieur, YOU do not pretend to be a rag (taking into account how YOU "blazed" and "burst")

        I agree - when Klimov begins to pass off rumors and speculations as facts, I am tempted to show what this verbiage is.
        Quote: timokhin-aa
        MK: LIE.

        Quote: timokhin-aa
        MK: FALSE

        As usual, not a single fact to refute my words.

        Quote: timokhin-aa
        for a number of serious positions, we have a very strong initial and technical groundwork, - THANKS TO EXCLUSIVELY A NUMBER OF REAL SCIENTISTS AND PATRITS OF THE COUNTRY, and CONTRAST "industrial policy" of the Ministry of Primtorg

        The purest water demagoguery, and not supported by anything.
        Quote: timokhin-aa
        MK: NOBODY. This is exclusively "drank" MPT

        Again a lie, because if they sawed something themselves, then what does the military have to do with it?
        Quote: timokhin-aa
        MK: NOBODY. Navy TK (namely TK and not TTZ) set, "Hydra" did not like it very much.

        Nonsense, because TTZ, and not TK, is presented by a military customer, and if it does not suit the contractor, then he will not sign it, especially if you believe that it was industry money, and not the Ministry of Defense. Klimov, I do not know where you have heard enough of this foolishness or is it a figment of your fantasies, but even a novice customer from junior officers will never carry such nonsense.
        Quote: timokhin-aa
        MK: there "all the facts are on the face" - see "Gendarovskie dialogues", starting in 2012. (a fragment of which is given in the article) - "all moves are recorded" and it is clear who is where and what

        I don't give a damn about lice dialogues ten years ago - it was about a specific current product, which supposedly has bad batteries. Where did the firewood come from and who told you the information, because I cannot believe in nonsense that untested batteries were installed on a serial product, if only because I understand what this threatens the persons responsible for the order.
        By the way, Klimov, how many they served in the headquarters of the fleet - has long been tempted to ask, otherwise you somehow bypassed this episode from your biography. Share your memories ...
        1. timokhin-aa
          1 February 2021 22: 48
          -1
          From Klimov

          Ensign TsTSSRe:
          I agree - when Klimov begins to pass off rumors and speculations as facts, I am tempted to show what this verbiage is.


          MK: Prapor, YOU LONGER here. Moreover, it does not have the slightest idea about R&D, aviation, or intelligence

          Ensign TsTSSRe:
          As usual, not a single fact to refute my words.


          MK: Prapor, there are NO WORDS for you - one DISCONNECTED and LIEUAL RIDDLE. By the way, what did you actually want to hear? SPECIFIC PRODUCTS with SPECIFIC BATTERIES? (lithium-ion)? Or maybe you should "draw" a plate of special complexes with them (including the names of the developers)? Or maybe you are not just BAD, but also a PROVOCATOR?
          Speaking about the MASSIVE use of LIAB in the modern Air Defense Forces of the RF Armed Forces, only one example will be enough - UAVs.

          Ensign TsTSSRe:
          The purest water demagoguery, and not supported by anything.


          MK: The fraudulent ensign, do you really think that I will be here with the names of the "boxes" and their "main" ones, and so on. "topics" (with their description)? Of the "related" issues that "lit up" in public space - the Novocherkassk ED (Pakhomin) with an exceptionally high efficiency (and he is far from the only one), significantly higher than the western ones.

          Ensign TsTSSR:
          Again a lie, because if they sawed something themselves, then what does the military have to do with it?


          MK: in the text CLEARLY and IN RUSSIAN it is written that they are trying to BLOW it

          Ensign TsTSSR:
          Nonsense, because TTZ, and not TK, is exhibited by a military customer


          MK: pyashi istcho, ensign, make people laugh ... kanechna, for the BATTERY a TACTICAL-technical assignment is necessarily being developed. Looks like you are a "big Spets" on "TTZ development" for a "can of canned meat" :)))) pyashi istCHo :)))

          Ensign TsTSSR:
          a military customer, and if it does not suit the contractor, then he will not sign it, especially if you believe that it was industry money, and not the Ministry of Defense. Klimov, I do not know where you have heard enough of this foolishness or is it a figment of your fantasies, but even a novice customer from junior officers will never carry such nonsense.


          MK: ensign, nonsense and ACHINA here are YOU, the CUSTOMER is the one who pays the money, and only in "your Squirrels" can there be something that YOU are carrying, higher - that "with industry financing of the topic, it can have a military customer" (I am not about initiative developments)

          Ensign TsTSSRe:
          I don't give a damn about lice dialogues ten years ago - it was about a specific current product, which supposedly has bad batteries. Where did the firewood come from and who gave you the information,


          MK: ensign, YOU can do whatever you want, but the FACTS are such that one of the participants in these dialogues was a person who was a representative of the MPO Concern in Moscow (links to this were given). And the first time I learned about "Lion" was in the office of Admiral GA Suchkov, Admiral of the Minister of Defense of the Russian Federation, back in 2012.

          Ensign TsTSSRe:
          because I cannot believe in nonsense that untested batteries were installed on a serial product, if only because I understand how this threatens the persons responsible for the order.


          MK: YOU BRED here, ensign. They were not only "installed in the product", they were already dragged onto the BOATS (they kicked them out with the SF after my call to the SF and several other persons). As for the "customer" - DOGOZ "woke up". In 2019 (despite the fact that the BODYAGA with "Lyon" in the Navy dragged on for a year since 2011)

          Ensign TsTSSRe:
          By the way, Klimov, how many they served in the headquarters of the fleet - has long been tempted to ask, otherwise you somehow bypassed this episode from your biography. Share your memories ...


          MK: Ensign, I do not Aibolit to comment on YOUR RUNNING, contact the DOCTORS with them. As for me, I wrote clearly and in Russian on my own, and I do not intend to throw beads to knowingly LAPPY individuals.

          Ensign TsTSSRE:
          The article is false, if only because no sane customer would ever think of installing an untested current source on an explosive weapon. But Klimov would lie that two fingers ...


          MK: You are LEFT here, ensign. And let you do this, - pyashi a letter to KMPO that the media "maliciously harass" his materiel, and let them TRY to bring the DETAILS OF THE "LETTER" of the RF Ministry of Defense for "Lion". So to speak, try the ensign to ANSWER FOR YOUR LIES long tongue. As for me, I have not only articles and a tough public discussion of this issue, but also appeals to the SHG.

          Ensign TsTSSR:
          Again, a lie, because many sectoral R&D are carried out according to the TTZ, agreed with the military general customer, who, by the way, participates in the support of such work, if they are important for the Ministry of Defense, and signs the act of state tests. And this is a common practice.


          MK: LITTLE here is the ensign TSTSRE, because the specified order of ANY attitude to "Lion" HAS NOT.

          Ensign TsTSSR:
          Both of you are just arrogant liars, even having no idea how it happens in life.


          MK: The fraudulent ensign! Above YOU were asked to ANSWER for your LONG LONG LANGUAGE - write to the KMPO and request them by the "military letter" from "Lyon". ZHDEMS (wait, though you will have to "carrot plot").

          Ensign TsTSSR:
          And where are the names of those who vtyukhivat - well, let this "truth-bearer" name them, what is he afraid of, he no longer serves, why is he shaking?


          MK: Yes, in fact, THE SURNAMES were CALLED in the ARTICLE - and it "blazed" so that there was an awesome "hit" on "VO", and the article had to be deleted. At the same time, all 3 "heroes" - Chirkov, Shevchenko and Zhandarov were afraid to "continue in court" (despite the fact that I immediately posted the article in LiveJournal and this story "blazed" in the media throughout the country).

          Ensign TsTSSR: And who from the naval took these batteries - let him tell

          MK: And the fleet DID NOT ACCEPT. JUST DIDN'T TALK TO HIM (that they brought the "promka" on board). Specifically, SF learned this first from ME (and then from other people). The reaction was shocking. Especially after the "losharik"

          Ensign TsTSSR:
          Again, a vile lie, if only because the performance characteristics of the batteries are not given, and the characteristics of the torpedo in terms of range and speed strongly depend on this.


          MK: Fraudulent ensign, do you even know WHAT you are CARRYING? Or are you a "thimble gig"? I am writing about the SAFETY of the battery, and you are trying to translate the conversation from this to the performance characteristics of a specific battery, and they are not (in complete form) in the public domain!
          And as for LIAB in general, and not Lyon, - their MASS exploitation on the same UAVs of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, clearly speaks of your RUNNING IGNORANCE and PATHOLOGICAL LIES.

          Ensign TsTSSRE:
          In general, Klimov dodged direct answers to questions, including on the last torpedo, information about which was published on VO. Yes, and Timokhin hid in a corner - so there, with the refutation of the information, we are waiting for your angry speeches.


          MK: Prapor, did you confuse anything? Can you "wrap up" the ACTS of tests? Who are you? A deceitful and completely incompetent ensign, unable to answer for his words! Do you need to throw "beads" under your feet? I don’t have that much.

          Well, traditionally:

          The ensign flaunts the fact that he was somewhere and did something, but in fact, he solved issues in the service like this:



          We also pay attention to how ccsr is written in the Russian layout - he did it on purpose, he enjoys such deviant behavior, they say, how cool I am - in a decent society with such a nickname, and no one noticed. The same pathology forces the ensign to write what he writes.
          He got smart words on the forums, and you can even show them on which ones. He knows nothing but clearing snow.

          This is what he had GeRaUUU
          1. ccsr
            ccsr 2 February 2021 13: 28
            -1
            Quote: timokhin-aa
            MK: A fraudulent warrant officer, do you really think that I will be sprinkling with the names of "boxes" and their "main" ones here, and so on. "topics" (with their description)?

            Of course you won't - you don't know them, because you are not allowed to see them, and all your information is from the media and your excited imagination.

            Quote: timokhin-aa
            And the first time I learned about "Lion" was in the office of Admiral GA Suchkov, Admiral of the Minister of Defense of the Russian Federation, back in 2012.

            It was with you that the minister's advisor (by the way, is he a civilian or not?) Discussed the issues of "Lyon" - well, don't be ridiculous, if you happened to be there by chance, then don't exaggerate your role in this. By the way, what is "Lyon" - explain popularly.
            Quote: timokhin-aa
            for the specified order of ANY relation to "Lyon" HAS NOT.

            And then what for the industry attracted you to its work? Tell us at least about their motives in this case. You just don't really understand this at all, and you just puff your cheeks, because it is clear that you are just an amateur in such matters.
            Quote: timokhin-aa
            I am writing about the SAFETY of the battery, and you are trying to translate the conversation from this to the performance characteristics of a specific battery, and they are not (in complete form) in the public domain!

            Don't wag the sirloin - the safety of the product is laid down in the TTZ even during the design, including for all the elements used in it. What does the safety of a separate battery have to do with it, if it is accepted by the customer as part of the entire product? Clarify your nonsense in a popular form - does it mean that the safety of the torpedo during storage and use is calculated without taking into account the safety of the battery? I have never heard such foolishness from any engineer, however, you are clearly not an engineer to understand this.
            1. mine
              mine 2 February 2021 14: 02
              -1
              Quote: ccsr
              because they are not allowed

              prapor, what I was admitted to is NOT YOUR BUSINESS, and in front of you like me I'm not going to throw beads
              not to mention the fact that those who really dealt with serious "special topics" are usually extremely stingy with words about it (and do not wave their tongue like a whisk like you, prapor)
              Quote: ccsr
              and all your information from the media and your excited imagination.

              with this nonsense, if you please go to the doctors
              I am not a psychiatrist to provide medical care to YOU
              Quote: ccsr
              It was with you that the advisor to the minister (by the way, is he a civilian or not?) Discussed the issues of "Lyon" - well, don't be ridiculous, if you happened to be there by chance, then don't exaggerate your role in this

              uuuuu prapor, yes you have a Squirrel campaign ... wassat
              lol
              Quote: ccsr
              By the way, what is "Lyon" - explain popularly.

              Prapor, did they tell you about the ABC in the Bursa? about the letters that add up to words?
              or are you only able to flip through the murzilki (yes, you can sweep the area with your tongue lol )?
              about "Lion" I was clear and written in Russian, if it does not reach - for "income" - to the doctor
              Quote: ccsr
              And then what for the industry attracted you to its work?

              fool
              with your delirium, if you please go to the doctor
              Quote: ccsr
              You just don't really understand this at all, and you just puff your cheeks, because it is clear that you are just an amateur in such matters.

              fool
              ensign, I have the last one official position in the defense industry complex - the leading designer of the complex, and the last work that I did on it was ONR-2030, and in agreement with the Central Research Institute of 46 on ALL topics and industries
              Quote: ccsr
              Don't wag the sirloin - the safety of the product is laid down in the TTZ

              wassat
              prapor, you had a hike in a warehouse for TTZ (TACTICAL-technical assignment) was lol
              apparently you wrote it with a group of ensigns, under the "water of fire" lol

              ZY ensign, you are just nonsense and AHINA, from which it is clear that you did not do anything real in your life
              1. ccsr
                ccsr 2 February 2021 18: 15
                -1
                Quote: mina
                I have the last official position in the military-industrial complex - the leading designer of the complex,

                So you could stand in a position so that you could receive money, but you could not be a designer - you become a real designer only after many years of work in your profile, do not push me, smart guy about your position. Where could you get design experience in the navy, even if you didn’t serve a single day in a special research institute of the navy?
                Quote: mina
                and the last work I did on it was ONR-2030,

                Yes, you did the paperwork at best, and even then so that real designers would not be distracted by this. Burn further, swindler from science ...
                1. mine
                  mine 2 February 2021 19: 01
                  -1
                  Quote: ccsr
                  So you could stand in a position so that you could receive money, but you could not be a designer - you become a real designer only after many years of work in your profile, do not push me, smart guy about your position.

                  drunk and deceitful warrant officer Ssyk, you are nobody and there is no way to call you
                  the "price" of your verbal diarrhea wassat - button on the toilet
                  Quote: ccsr
                  Yes, you did the paperwork at best, and even then in order not to distract real designers

                  bunny, you didn't even understand what ONR is
  11. Aviator_
    Aviator_ 22 January 2021 19: 02
    0
    From the article did not understand - "Nerpa" with unfinished software were going to sell to the Indians? Was it before the tragedy, or after?
    1. faiver
      faiver 22 January 2021 19: 48
      +4
      And before and after, the accident delayed this business
      1. Aviator_
        Aviator_ 22 January 2021 19: 50
        +1
        So did you push through this deal?
        1. faiver
          faiver 22 January 2021 19: 54
          +3
          yes, the Indians took the boat
          1. Aviator_
            Aviator_ 22 January 2021 20: 05
            +1
            The crew will be formed from the lowest caste, from pariahs, they do not mind.
            1. The eye of the crying
              The eye of the crying 22 January 2021 20: 45
              0
              The article clearly states that the automation has been fixed.
              1. Vladimir1155
                Vladimir1155 22 January 2021 22: 50
                +3
                Quote: Eye of the Crying
                automatic fixes

                we are glad, but there should be not a one-time correction by the forces of a retired enthusiast, but a systemic one that does not allow making such flaws in other systems, especially since they all become secret and inaccessible to enthusiasts ... and this should be monitored by acting specialists on the principle of "we do not regularly accept ", but still yars and clubs will fly in the wrong direction, considering an accidental voltage surge as an operator's command
                1. The eye of the crying
                  The eye of the crying 22 January 2021 22: 52
                  0
                  Quote: vladimir1155
                  there should not be a one-time correction by the forces of a retired enthusiast


                  The retired enthusiast has definitely not fixed the automation at all. And so - yes, it must be systemic, no one argues. Too bad negative selection gets in the way.
                  1. Vladimir1155
                    Vladimir1155 22 January 2021 22: 54
                    0
                    I’m so bad that I didn’t myself, but I took part in making this happen, ...... I agree about negative selection, only now I was thinking about it (about my fate) I never had enough stars from the sky, admirals are not related
                    1. The eye of the crying
                      The eye of the crying 22 January 2021 22: 57
                      -2
                      To fix it, a team of qualified people (system developers) is needed. He could participate, but if he played a significant role, it was in checking the prepared correction.
                      1. nsm1
                        nsm1 23 January 2021 06: 37
                        +4
                        Quote: Eye of the Crying
                        To fix it, a team of qualified people (system developers) is needed.

                        Where to get these?
                        Unlike Soviet times, now salaries in the military-industrial complex lessthan the average for similar specialties outside the military-industrial complex.
                        The worst go to the "defense", who cannot find work in normal places.
                        And with regard to software, there is another point - our programmer can find a job abroad, but - if he ruins his biography with at least one job in the "defense industry" - serious difficulties await with subscriptions, leaving, etc. etc.
                        I don’t presume to judge how "scary" it is, but I know firsthand and absolutely for sure that there is a strong bias against the military-industrial complex.
                        Highly qualified and just normal people do not go to the "defense industry" if there is at least some alternative.
                      2. The eye of the crying
                        The eye of the crying 23 January 2021 12: 55
                        -1
                        Quote: nsm1
                        Where to get these?


                        As always - from the education system. She's not the best in the world, but she is.

                        Quote: nsm1
                        The worst go to the "defense", who cannot find work in normal places.


                        This is not entirely true. Of course, the military-industrial complex does not have the most qualified people available, and the pay there is not brilliant, and the unpleasant specifics like admissions, subscriptions and landings, but everything is not so dull.
                      3. nsm1
                        nsm1 23 January 2021 13: 15
                        +2
                        So depressing or not so sad - subjective assessments, for someone so, for another not so, but - sadly.
                        The Omsk plant of Baranov somehow got caught on hh.ru, it seemed something strange, I looked at their list of vacancies - from 15 thousand thermist, electrician, aircraft engine repairman.
                        From 17 thousand repair engineer to the chief mechanic department ...
                        For me it is so extremely depressing.
                        Banned the plant.
                      4. The eye of the crying
                        The eye of the crying 23 January 2021 13: 19
                        -1
                        Quote: nsm1
                        So dull or not so dull - subjective assessments


                        Of course (and both are subjective).
                      5. nsm1
                        nsm1 23 January 2021 13: 31
                        +2
                        What adequate person would go for a tag to the plant?
                        Convicted ...
                        Anyone with health problems, physical or mental ...
                        Those who cannot pass the commission are on duty at the oil field, there are a hundred, one and a half normal salaries.
                        Will they work out a lot?
                    2. Aag
                      Aag 23 January 2021 20: 32
                      +2
                      Quote: nsm1
                      So depressing or not so sad - subjective assessments, for someone so, for another not so, but - sadly.
                      The Omsk plant of Baranov somehow got caught on hh.ru, it seemed something strange, I looked at their list of vacancies - from 15 thousand thermist, electrician, aircraft engine repairman.
                      From 17 thousand repair engineer to the chief mechanic department ...
                      For me it is so extremely depressing.
                      Banned the plant.

                      Just Tin !!!
                2. Aag
                  Aag 23 January 2021 20: 38
                  +3
                  "... Highly qualified and just normal people do not go to the" defense industry "if there is at least some alternative ...."
                  I would like to be indignant! ... Yes, there is nothing special to cover ...
  • K298rtm
    K298rtm 22 January 2021 20: 42
    +10
    "Do what you must, and come what may."
    1. Thanks to the author (Maxim) for his indifferent attitude to the problems of the Navy.
    2. According to the laws of dialectics, quantity should turn into quality over time (it remains to be hoped that there will not be another Tsushima).
    1. Escobar
      Escobar 22 January 2021 22: 12
      +1
      Only this remains
    2. ccsr
      ccsr 23 January 2021 12: 54
      -6
      Quote: K298rtm
      (it remains to be hoped that there will not be another Tsushima).

      Of course, Tsushima will not be - Japan will be destroyed only by a few strategic nuclear warheads delivered there by our Strategic Missile Forces. Fortunately, almost 80% of Japan's population is concentrated in three industrial agglomerations - we will immediately destroy both industry and human resources. So our fleet has nothing to do there from the word at all.
      1. frog
        frog 24 January 2021 17: 33
        +1
        Do you believe it yourself? In this fable ??
        1. ccsr
          ccsr 24 January 2021 19: 20
          -2
          Quote: frog
          Do you believe it yourself? In this fable ??

          We have known this since Soviet times. Now the people are less enlightened in such matters, but those who are in the subject, and so everyone knows it.
          1. frog
            frog 24 January 2021 20: 56
            +1
            Let's just say that Germany during WWII had military warfare agents. As with the allies. But for some reason the Third Reich did not apply it. Even when they were already ... dup-like everything they had ...
            IMHO, because we took into account the probability of a return flow. You can rely on bars when you only have them. Or you have significantly more of them. They are not a waffle or a cookie in any way. Not all questions can be solved with this tool. And not always. Although why am I saying this ??))) It is useless to discuss questions of faith ...
            1. ccsr
              ccsr 25 January 2021 11: 43
              -2
              Quote: frog
              Let's just say that during WWII Germany had combat warfare agents. As with the allies. But for some reason the Third Reich did not apply it.

              Because then Germany would simply be flooded with OM, and given their territory, the war would have ended immediately. That is why the Germans were afraid to use OV.
              Quote: frog
              Or you have significantly more of them.

              We have significantly more of them, and most importantly, we are able to quickly increase their number if something goes wrong in the world.
              Quote: frog
              Not all questions can be solved with this tool.

              Everything can be solved with this tool. But not everyone believes in this due to the lack of understanding of the capabilities of our strategic nuclear forces.
              Quote: frog
              Although why am I saying this ??))) It is useless to discuss questions of faith ...

              Themselves then at least urgently served, "unbeliever" are you ours? Or did you get all military knowledge in a civilian sailor?
              1. frog
                frog 25 January 2021 12: 21
                +1
                Because then Germany would simply be flooded with OM, and given their territory, the war would have ended immediately. That is why the Germans were afraid to use OV.
                Below I wrote about this. So, by the way ...
                We have significantly more of them, and most importantly, we are able to quickly increase their number if something goes wrong in the world.

                More than anyone? Uganda? And Japs, if sho))), are in some way allies of the spiritless, and on their territory there are military bases thereof. Again, by the way ...
                About the possibilities to quickly build up and the solution of all issues with a sim tool ...
                Themselves then at least urgently served, "unbeliever" are you ours? Or did you get all military knowledge in a civilian sailor?

                You, obviously, are only working in the General Staff .... with a very rich experience. if so, then it is clear why the place where we are is so vast and deep. Not to mention the fact that neither across the river, nor in ... friendly places, not to mention a small region in the Caucasus, the rolls somehow did not help.
                So, for reference, I served as an urgent, and with a variety of iron .... I communicate with curious people. And there are trochs familiar in this area. IChSH, they have a completely different opinion.
                But still health to you and good luck in the difficult matter of raising patriotism to unattainable heights hi
  • Tests
    Tests 22 January 2021 21: 05
    +10
    Lawyer (Ruslan), dear, counterintelligence - who is this? These are those who, after graduation, having received two small stars per shoulder strap, rode the Geliki along the Maskva? Or their teachers, mentors and commanders who have been teaching and educating them for many years? These are psychologists that they were tested before study at least 2 times and during study many times (those who graduated from the Military Medical Academy in St. Petersburg and have shoulder straps, that is, they understand when it is necessary to take under the visor and whose son, you understand, send to study (option - give to finish my studies))? For many years I have known the adage: "Any system with shoulder straps is like a toilet bowl - the largest pieces of shit float to the very top." I won't go far for an example. For many years, the native Severodvinsk has been quietly shaking, since SEVMASH, Zvezdochka, Arktika have not had VOKhR in their structure for more than 10 years. Either the UVO of the Ministry of Industry guarded them, then the UVO of the Ministry of Transport, today - the National Guard. The salaries of ordinary security guards are at the minimum wage level, at posts in a row people stand for 6-8 hours, 90% of the guards, if not more, do not know how to shoot, in hand-to-hand combat it is completely zero. At SEVMASH, they destroyed the most unbribable guard dogs - service dogs (many with a wonderful pedigree and acquired in nurseries of the Ministry of Defense and the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the Russian Federation), the money spent on new enclosures, a feed kitchen, a veterinary clinic was thrown into the wind, a veterinarian and trained cynologists-zootechnicians were no longer needed. That the faces didn't know it? And what did they do to change the situation? ... Who benefits from this situation? Probably those, maybe I am mistaken, who can take out inventory items from factories. Well, to the heads of the National Guard - they save budgetary funds, but for saving budgetary funds in December of each year, perhaps in the last month of each quarter, here I can only assume that they are giving a bonus to their beloved, not small ...
    1. Aag
      Aag 23 January 2021 21: 14
      +2
      Quote: Tests
      Lawyer (Ruslan), dear, counterintelligence - who is this? These are those who, after graduation, having received two small stars per shoulder strap, rode the Geliki along the Maskva? Or their teachers, mentors and commanders who have been teaching and educating them for many years? These are psychologists that they were tested before study at least 2 times and during study many times (those who graduated from the Military Medical Academy in St. Petersburg and have shoulder straps, that is, they understand when it is necessary to take under the visor and whose son, you understand, send to study (option - give to finish my studies))? For many years I have known the adage: "Any system with shoulder straps is like a toilet bowl - the largest pieces of shit float to the very top." I won't go far for an example. For many years, the native Severodvinsk has been quietly shaking, since SEVMASH, Zvezdochka, Arktika have not had VOKhR in their structure for more than 10 years. Either the UVO of the Ministry of Industry guarded them, then the UVO of the Ministry of Transport, today - the National Guard. The salaries of ordinary security guards are at the minimum wage level, at posts in a row people stand for 6-8 hours, 90% of the guards, if not more, do not know how to shoot, in hand-to-hand combat it is completely zero. At SEVMASH, they destroyed the most unbribable guard dogs - service dogs (many with a wonderful pedigree and acquired in nurseries of the Ministry of Defense and the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the Russian Federation), the money spent on new enclosures, a feed kitchen, a veterinary clinic was thrown into the wind, a veterinarian and trained cynologists-zootechnicians were no longer needed. That the faces didn't know it? And what did they do to change the situation? ... Who benefits from this situation? Probably those, maybe I am mistaken, who can take out inventory items from factories. Well, to the heads of the National Guard - they save budgetary funds, but for saving budgetary funds in December of each year, perhaps in the last month of each quarter, here I can only assume that they are giving a bonus to their beloved, not small ...

      Yes, and already ... I had a chance to communicate with the current FSB nicknames (I'm talking about those that I saw, if that ...) L-t, bitch, all on show-off, -type every day under bullets ... elementary issues on PM, OVU VS (well, there, it seems, there are changes) ... Was a regular customer of a nearby (Chinese) body car service (it's scary to assume how issues were resolved in the traffic police, and with the participants in the accident). with a shaggy hand: if they asked for money for repairs (even at a loss for themselves), after a while "masks of the show" began - detention, deportation. Well, judging by the fact that the contingent changed. No, the chief stayed. Apparently, a different level. ..
      So the problem is familiar ...
      And sorry for the dogs!
      Yes, it's a pity for all the lost competencies, achievements, experience, faith in the expediency of attempts !!! Sorry ... hi
  • faterdom
    faterdom 22 January 2021 22: 40
    +4
    We then dealt with the topic in Severodvinsk, where the same poisonous freon, under the guise of an order of magnitude more expensive, was refueled in fire extinguishing. We managed to prosecute. In my opinion, the Organized Crime Control Department was engaged, which then Mr. Medvedev secretly destroyed.
    1. timokhin-aa
      23 January 2021 11: 25
      +3
      Our shipbuilding traditions are normal. What kind of boat was it? And the year?
      1. faterdom
        faterdom 23 January 2021 15: 40
        +1
        I won't say exactly about the boat, the years are about 2006-07. There, in parallel, titanium slabs were 10cm thick, with the use of railway. platforms. Which go to the construction of durable boat hulls. Scale!
        Medvedev liquidated the Organized Crime Control Department by decree in August 2008 (this is a priority task, against the background of the 08.08 war and the recognition of South Ossetia and Abkhazia and the global economic crisis, Fannie May), quietly, they say even for the Minister of Internal Affairs Nurgaliev it was a surprise, no one I did not consult with him and did not ask anything.
        1. Aag
          Aag 23 January 2021 21: 18
          +1
          Quote: faterdom
          I won't say exactly about the boat, the years are about 2006-07. There, in parallel, titanium slabs were 10cm thick, with the use of railway. platforms. Which go to the construction of durable boat hulls. Scale!
          Medvedev liquidated the Organized Crime Control Department by decree in August 2008 (this is a priority task, against the background of the 08.08 war and the recognition of South Ossetia and Abkhazia and the global economic crisis, Fannie May), quietly, they say even for the Minister of Internal Affairs Nurgaliev it was a surprise, no one I did not consult with him and did not ask anything.

          Sorry for the "intrusion". It seems to me alone that Mr. Medvedev's "contribution" to the current situation is greatly underestimated?
  • Vladimir1155
    Vladimir1155 22 January 2021 22: 45
    +1
    Dear Maxim, thank you for your important business, I have a question for you, was it the reason for the explosion of the nuclear submarine Course was it such a torpedo? Second, these are all flowers, but if a war starts ... it turns out that all SSBNs of the Pacific Fleet will not be able to leave the port, because the enemy can guard them three miles from the base ... And all SSBNs of the Northern Fleet will also not be able to go somewhere, because Barents We control the sea not much better than Kamchatka ... and finally, the entire navy simply cannot fight because there are only a few minesweepers, and those that are weak ... After all, this is Tsushima right in the port ...
    1. bk0010
      bk0010 24 January 2021 14: 34
      0
      Quote: vladimir1155
      e was the cause of the explosion of the nuclear submarine Kurs just such a torpedo
      There was something like Kit # 65-76, it was steam-gas, after the Kursk it was removed from service, we have no other 650-mm torpedoes.
  • Nestor Vlakhovski
    Nestor Vlakhovski 22 January 2021 22: 48
    -16%
    Once again, the mine has soiled itself by pouring mud on the Russian state, slandering authoritative people and organizations, manipulating facts and outright stuffing, including on tragic topics.
    There is nothing to say about ignorance of materiel and technical illiteracy, all this has long been known.
    1. frog
      frog 23 January 2021 00: 00
      +5
      Didn't you miss anything?
    2. timokhin-aa
      23 January 2021 11: 25
      +4
      There is nothing to say about ignorance of materiel and technical illiteracy, all this has long been known.


      It amazes me when various nonentities try to talk to people, against whose background they are just an empty space, from the standpoint of their alleged moral and intellectual superiority, which in fact is not even close.

      Did your mother spoil you so much as a child? Or what kind of quality is this?
      1. SovAr238A
        SovAr238A 25 January 2021 20: 29
        +2
        Quote: timokhin-aa


        Did your mother spoil you so much as a child? Or what kind of quality is this?


        You look at his posts - it seems that they were written by completely different people ...
        Contradictions to oneself in texts, in the expressed position, in the description of actions and processes ..
        Writes like a weathervane.

        Registration on December 16 means either a previously banned or a remake.
        Since he writes about Mina-Maxim in a derogatory manner, it means "banned" ...
        writes either at night or at lunchtime ...
    3. bk0010
      bk0010 24 January 2021 14: 39
      +1
      Quote: Nestor Vlahovski
      slandering reputable people
      Which ones are in crimson jackets?
      Quote: Nestor Vlahovski
      There is nothing to say about ignorance of materiel and technical illiteracy, all this has long been known.
      Here it is especially interesting, please, give the errors you found.
  • Podvodnik
    Podvodnik 23 January 2021 00: 26
    +11
    In the distant nineties, I had a chance to take "Vepr" as part of the state commission. According to colleagues, the cap commander. 1 rank Knipst said to "serious people" that the LOKH would not sign an act of acceptance of a ship with an automatic system. (I was not a witness myself). Remodeled. So the officers were then, are now, and will be after us. The fleet is held on them. Unfortunately, there are those who can say "what do you want most of all?" I have heard this phrase personally. And this is also there, unfortunately.
    So, for the OFFICERS!
    1. mik193
      mik193 23 January 2021 08: 23
      +5
      Over the years, I'm afraid to make a mistake, but in my opinion, even in the second generation (specifically project 667), an automatic start of the LOH system was already designed in the compartments from the central post from the Titan console. Due to the glitchiness and numerous false alarms, the automation was turned off and there was only a manual feed from the LOH cut-off stations "to itself" and to adjacent compartments. I wonder what the designers have been doing for 40 years?
    2. Aag
      Aag 23 January 2021 21: 36
      +2
      Quote: Podvodnik
      In the distant nineties, I had a chance to take "Vepr" as part of the state commission. According to colleagues, the cap commander. 1 rank Knipst said to "serious people" that the LOKH would not sign an act of acceptance of a ship with an automatic system. (I was not a witness myself). Remodeled. So the officers were then, are now, and will be after us. The fleet is held on them. Unfortunately, there are those who can say "what do you want most of all?" I have heard this phrase personally. And this is also there, unfortunately.
      So, for the OFFICERS!

      "... Unfortunately, there are those who can say" what do you need more than anyone else? "I heard this phrase personally. And this is also there, unfortunately ...."
      What a familiar phrase! Straight nostalgia ... (zero, Strategic Missile Forces, in fairness, for "little things"). The trouble is that now even such a question arises less and less often, -or they are "smarter", they realize that this is not their business, or just competence, education is not enough to understand the problem, to formulate the question. (((
  • nsm1
    nsm1 23 January 2021 06: 06
    -2
    Tesla's engines are rated at 225, 270 or 310 kW. The battery in question ("Lyon") was made for a product with an engine power of 390 kW.
    Actually this all said.
    Power has to do with fire hazard, but very indirectly - the consequences of an explosion mainly depend on containers.
    It makes no sense to compare the "Tesla" and the torpedo - their operating modes are completely different and the power in this case nothing does not speak.
    The conclusion from the article is that the meaning of incoherent cries of amateurs in the media is definitely negative.
    It would be better to be silent than to carry nonsense.
    1. Aag
      Aag 23 January 2021 22: 31
      +1
      Quote: nsm1
      Tesla's engines are rated at 225, 270 or 310 kW. The battery in question ("Lyon") was made for a product with an engine power of 390 kW.
      Actually this all said.
      Power has to do with fire hazard, but very indirectly - the consequences of an explosion mainly depend on containers.
      It makes no sense to compare the "Tesla" and the torpedo - their operating modes are completely different and the power in this case nothing does not speak.
      The conclusion from the article is that the meaning of incoherent cries of amateurs in the media is definitely negative.
      It would be better to be silent than to carry nonsense.

      What did you want to bring to the attention of the readers? The difference in the power of consumers and the capacity of sources? General physics, about 6th grade ..
      The question is not even about the power, we will talk about the explosion, the ignition of the battery. (I happened to read the instructions for the first police station on the battery of this type, observe the uniforms, participants in the events after the explosion of the battery with a capacity of about 3000 mAh).
      Are you ready to serve in BC-3 (if I don't confuse it) with such torpedoes, or send your son to serve on a submarine with a similar arsenal?
      Of course, every military unit of the RF Armed Forces, according to the Oath, must be ready to give his life in pursuance of the Order (oops !!! I checked with Vicki, there is no such thing there !!! ... in shock. Nobody is responsible for anything? )
      Sorry nsm1, you are less of a problem.
      Excuse me once again, please, but since the State interprets the problems and tasks in this way at the legislative level ... What claims can there be against you? (... if you are not of mature age) ...
      1. nsm1
        nsm1 23 January 2021 22: 42
        -3
        I can argue that the author's statement in terms of power speaks of his ignorance of physics for the 6th grade.
        What clearly and directly shows - the author journalist, in the worst sense of the word.
        From such one harm and nothing but harm.
        On such topics, IMHO, specialists should speak out, not hunters for "fried facts".
        1. Aag
          Aag 23 January 2021 23: 16
          +1
          Quote: nsm1
          I can argue that the author's statement in terms of power speaks of his ignorance of physics for the 6th grade.
          What clearly and directly shows - the author journalist, in the worst sense of the word.
          From such one harm and nothing but harm.
          On such topics, IMHO, specialists should speak out, not hunters for "fried facts".

          Do not get excited. Please. The author gave an example, IMHO, to popularize the topic. (By the way, no critical flaws, -see my comments above). The author deserves respect, IMHO, for his coverage of the problems of the Navy (not throwing mud). I understand that this is only a small fraction of the coverage of problems in the media (agree, not simple) of M. Klimov's works. I can only guess what kind of opposition Maxim faces in various departments.
          Life experience suggests to be more restrained in assessments and judgments ... You, too, please, do not wave your saber rashly, take a closer look, listen ...
          1. nsm1
            nsm1 24 January 2021 08: 41
            0
            This is not popularization, but biting.
            Like threw up an engineer - it turns out that lithium batteries explode!
            I discovered America, well, well ...
            Yes - they explode, but there are no others!
            Boilers also explode - so what?
            "It is imperative to sail the sea", Pompey ™
            Shooting battery also needs.
            There are no others at the moment!
            The French made this for their torpedo.
            And the Japanese are a whole submarine.
            This little article is sabotage or the order of competitors, IMHO.
            1. ccsr
              ccsr 24 January 2021 13: 29
              -2
              Quote: nsm1
              Like threw up an engineer - it turns out that lithium batteries explode!
              I discovered America, well, well ...

              I asked the author of the article, and who ordered the development, who carried out the State tests and acceptance of lithium batteries for torpedoes, and why the author of the article is modestly silent about them in order to understand where the accusatory pathos came from.
              But the author of the article pretended that he did not want to answer this question - apparently he did not want to offend anyone of his acquaintances.
              Quote: nsm1
              Yes - they explode, but there are no others!

              Moreover, this has been known since Soviet times. And to pretend to be surprised by this "discovery" is at least ridiculous - all lithium sources suffer from this due to the properties of lithium itself.
              In general, the author decided to promote himself on this topic, as I understand it, but he uses some unconvincing arguments for this.
              1. timokhin-aa
                30 January 2021 20: 50
                -1
                Answer from M. Klimov.

                MK: "correct" batteries DO NOT EXPLODE

                Ensign TsTSSRE:
                I asked the author of the article, and who ordered the development, who carried out the State tests and acceptance of lithium batteries for torpedoes, and why the author of the article is modestly silent about them in order to understand where the accusatory pathos came from. But the author of the article pretended that he
                I don’t want to answer this question - apparently, she doesn’t want to offend her acquaintances.


                MK: Ensign TsTSRE LIES as usual. From the text of the article it is quite clear that no "state tests" of the Navy (Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation) did not pass this battery AT ALL.
                This battery "" "hatched" from a "fornicator" by "mastering" the "Ministry of Industry and Trade" (I cannot call it "ROC"). Corresponding "letter" of this joint-stock bank MINPROMTORGOVSKAYA (as its
                "received" - a separate "conversation"). And this battery (with numerous failures of the CPS!), With this allegedly LIPOV "letter", for many years tried to "suck" the Navy through all sorts of "red", "gendars" and "Vitka".
                As for the author's ANSWER, he has been banned for the heart-rending squeal of some "subjects" and has no way to respond directly.

                Ensign TsTSSRE:

                Yes - they explode, but there are no others!
                Moreover, this has been known since Soviet times.


                MK: ensign, you're just very stupid. Those who made them back in the USSR for "special applications" (and with secured security) knew personally.

                Ensign TsTSSRE:
                And to pretend to be surprised by this "discovery" is at least ridiculous - all lithium sources suffer from this due to the properties of lithium itself.


                MK: these "terrible" "properties of lithium" "for some reason" are fully compensated by the NORMAL CPS of the battery (which provide both shots, and punctures, and battery temperatures - it is SAFE for the carrier).
                Provided that the CPS of the battery did STRAIGHT HANDS.

                Ensign TsTSSRE:
                In general, the author decided to promote himself on this topic, as I understand it, but he uses some unconvincing arguments for this.


                MK: In general, the ensign of TsTSRE is simply very stupid, and does not know anything on the topic.
                1. ccsr
                  ccsr 31 January 2021 12: 52
                  0
                  Quote: timokhin-aa
                  Answer from M. Klimov.

                  He amused me again, because you will not hear anything concrete from him.
                  Quote: timokhin-aa
                  From the text of the article it is quite clear that no "state tests" of the Navy (Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation) did not pass this battery AT ALL.

                  The article is false, if only because no sane customer would ever think of installing an untested current source on an explosive weapon. But Klimov would lie that two fingers ...

                  Quote: timokhin-aa
                  This battery "" "hatched" from the "fornicator" by "mastering" the "Ministry of Industry and Trade theme" (ROC "this" language does not dare to call it).

                  Again, a lie, because many sectoral R&D are carried out according to the TTZ, agreed with the military general customer, who, by the way, participates in the support of such work, if they are important for the Ministry of Defense, and signs the act of state tests. And this is a common practice.
                  Both of you are just arrogant liars, even having no idea how it happens in life.
                  Quote: timokhin-aa
                  And this battery (with numerous failures of the CPS!), With this allegedly LIPOV "letter", for many years tried to "suck" the Navy through all sorts of "red", "gendars" and "Vitka".

                  And where are the names of those who vtyukhival - well, let this "truth-bearer" name them, why is he afraid, he no longer serves, why is he shaking? And who from the naval took these batteries - let him tell, or is Klimov still looking around when he walks around?
                  Quote: timokhin-aa
                  these "terrible" "properties of lithium" "for some reason" are fully compensated by the NORMAL CPS of the battery (which provide both shots, and punctures, and battery temperatures - it is SAFE for the carrier).
                  Provided that the CPS of the battery did STRAIGHT HANDS.

                  Again, a vile lie, if only because the performance characteristics of the batteries are not given, and the characteristics of the torpedo in terms of range and speed strongly depend on this. But Klimov cannot confirm his lie with anything, and as usual he lies without blushing.
                  Quote: timokhin-aa
                  MK: In general, the ensign of TsTSRE is simply very stupid, and does not know anything on the topic.

                  In general, Klimov dodged direct answers to questions, including on the last torpedo, information about which was published on VO. Yes, and Timokhin hid in a corner - so there, with the refutation of the information, we are waiting for your angry speeches.
            2. bk0010
              bk0010 24 January 2021 14: 36
              +1
              Quote: nsm1
              Yes - they explode, but there are no others!
              Here's your time: there were, were and not ...
            3. timokhin-aa
              30 January 2021 20: 59
              -2
              Reply from the author of the article M. Klimov

              nsm1
              This is not popularization, but biting. Like threw up an engineer - it turns out that lithium batteries explode! I discovered America, well, well ...


              MK: Monsieur nsm1, YOU squeal so that they are clearly "smeared" in this SCAM (well, or YOU were "smeared" with this screech). In this case, CORRECTLY made batteries "for some reason" DO NOT EXPLODE.

              nsm1:
              Yes - they explode, but there are no others!


              MK: LIE Monsieur nsm1!

              nsm1:
              Boilers also explode - so what?


              MK: And often they "explode"? Probably in order that this would not happen with them, respectively. Is the automation worth it? WORKING, - in contrast to the CRIMINALLY "GLYCHNOETS SUZ battery which YOU heartrendingly try to" defend "

              nsm1:
              "To sail the sea is a must", Pompey ™ Battery for shooting is also required. There are no others at the moment!


              MK: Monsieur nsm1, YOU ARE LIES! There are other batteries. The same "Ichthyosaurus" quite passed tests on them (like most of the "Kant" firing)

              nsm1:
              The French made this for their torpedo. And the Japanese are a whole submarine.


              MK: ONCE AGAIN Monsieur nsm1, YOU ARE LIE BAD! For "there" such things are not done "tyap-blooper" with hands from the "fifth point".

              nsm1:
              This little article is sabotage or the order of competitors, IMHO.


              MK: Wow, bunny! it turns out "there are competitors" !!! Who make such batteries "for some reason" WITH DIRECT HANDS (and they "for some reason" DO NOT EXPLODE). And considering how you screech heart-rendingly, the conclusion suggests itself that you, bunny, have a stigma on this topic "in the gun".
              1. nsm1
                nsm1 1 February 2021 10: 09
                -2
                Answered below.
                The hysteria amused me. laughing laughing laughing
        2. timokhin-aa
          24 January 2021 20: 05
          +1
          Citizen, are you crazy? What is physics in 6th grade? Hey, there is still a month before spring, no need to accelerate like that!
          Take care of yourself.
          1. nsm1
            nsm1 24 January 2021 20: 11
            +1
            The most common.
            1. timokhin-aa
              24 January 2021 20: 18
              -1
              It was so long ago that it is no longer true.
            2. ccsr
              ccsr 25 January 2021 11: 46
              -2
              Quote: nsm1
              The most common.

              In Ukraine, they did not teach it from the 6th grade, but later, so a person does not know when they begin to teach physics in Russian schools.
    2. timokhin-aa
      30 January 2021 21: 17
      -1
      From M. Klimov:

      nsm1:
      Power has to do with fire hazard, but very indirectly - the consequences of an explosion mainly depend on the capacity.


      MK: Musier, in YOUR "parish BURSE" did they tell you anything about the Joule-Lenz law?
      Or is YOU "just PROPEPSILY"? YOU are just an illiterate ZERO! Yes, the volume of the fire depends on the capacity, but in the case of an EXPLOSION, it is the power that "rules"! For EXPLOSION is an extremely short-lived process!

      nsm1:
      It makes no sense to compare the "Tesla" and the torpedo - their modes of operation are completely different and the power in this case does not mean anything. The conclusion from the article is that the meaning of incoherent cries of amateurs in the media is definitely negative. It would be better to be silent than to carry nonsense.


      MK: The obvious SCREAM of Monsieur nsm1 clearly says that he has a "stigma in the gun" (and "blazes"), - from the FACTS given in the article.
      As for the "detailed comparison" of Tesla and the torpedo battery, I would like to note that the FULL characteristics of the torpedo battery were NOT PUBLISHED (only for individual elements), so the author refrained from bringing them down. At the same time, the parameters of "what is on Tesla" and in the "product" are, let's say, "close" (for understanding the consequences). In this regard, the nsm1 SCREAM on the topic of "characteristics" should be regarded as a PROVOCATION for the public disclosure of information that had not previously been publicly published. Taking into account the hysteria of nsm1 on the given facts, the purpose of this PROVOCATION is obvious.
      1. nsm1
        nsm1 1 February 2021 10: 06
        -2
        Quote: timokhin-aa
        Or is YOU "just PROPEPSILY"? YOU are just an illiterate ZERO! Yes, the volume of the fire depends on the capacity, but in the case of an EXPLOSION, it is the power that "rules"! For EXPLOSION is an extremely short-lived process!
        Written by a person who, in principle, does not know that there is a battery.

        Let me explain - the "explosion" of a lithium battery is actually thermal self-acceleration, i.e. a reaction arising in one of the elements due to a technological defect, local overheating, etc. leads to an even greater increase in temperature, the involvement of neighboring cells and the energy yield depends primarily on mass reacted substances i.e. from the capacity.
        Two checkers explode more than one - a direct analogy.
        And this is not an explosion, there is no detonation, the observed effects are a consequence of the rupture of the shell due to an increase in pressure.

        Further, the maximum electric power of the battery depends on the number of cells, their internal resistance, the cross-section of the current leads and, in the case of lithium, on the number and maximum current of MOS transistors in the control and protection circuits.

        But that's not even the point - what does the maximum battery power have to do with the engine power?
        Tesla's engines are rated at 225, 270 or 310 kW. The battery in question ("Lyon") was made for a product with an engine power of 390 kW.
        Again, let me explain - the engine power for Tesla models 90, 90D, P90D is 285, 386, 387 kW, respectively, despite the fact that they have the same batteries with a capacity of 90 kWh.
        That is - engine power in general nothing does not speak.

        All this clearly and clearly exposes the author's complete lack of understanding of the subject area, i.e. in general, a complete zero in everything, not the slightest engineering background, a real vigorous journalist.

        The conclusion from the article is that the meaning of incoherent cries of amateurs in the media is definitely negative.
        It would be better to be silent than to carry nonsense.
      2. nsm1
        nsm1 1 February 2021 10: 45
        -2
        Corrected: engine power for Tesla models 90, 90D, P90D, Ludicrous is 285, 386, 3, respectively97 and 560 kW, despite the fact that they have the same batteries with a capacity of 90 kWh.
  • Tests
    Tests 23 January 2021 11: 25
    0
    faterdom (Andrey), dear, but when this sad story happened, more precisely, do not remember the years? I don't remember such a story with Freon. Were the boats at SEVMASH, at Zvezdochka or at the base?
  • Stalker84
    Stalker84 23 January 2021 11: 34
    +6
    Many thanks to the author for his work for the benefit of the fleet. Of course, I understand that many would like to watch the bravura video of the Military acceptance and calm down, but .. Sobering up will be difficult. On my own I will give an example that has nothing to do with the fleet but is typical. We have such a program in Mordovia to attract young people to work, a young specialist is allocated 1,5 million to build a house. But in order to become a participant in the program, you have to give almost half of the amount "very respectable to the person in Saransk, for the work" As a result, the person has the amount on hand for which only walls and a roof can be built. And so now the program is quietly fading. The same is with the support of farmers, yes, you will be given a grant, but give half of it. At the same time, foul corruption schemes flourish according to which money is allocated to "their people", these people do nothing worthwhile. So, for imitation, they will buy some amount of skatina and plow the field. And then everything goes bankrupt, the money is not returned. And so it is in all industries. Mordovia is in complete stagnation, and "respected people" brought it to this point. True, now the new head Zdunov, began to actively plant them, remove untouchables from their posts. Let's see what he does.
  • Tests
    Tests 23 January 2021 11: 41
    +8
    Nestor Vlakhovski, dear fellow, you write: "Once again, the mine has soiled itself by pouring mud on the Russian state, slandering authoritative people and organizations, manipulating facts and outright stuffing, including on tragic topics." Do not consider it for work, please answer a few questions: 1. What do you mean by the concept of "Russian state"? ". 2. In what specific words or phrases the author, in your opinion," ... the mine has soiled itself by pouring mud on the Russian state ... "? 3. How exactly was the author's libel expressed? 4. Authoritative people and organizations are blameless and sinless like the Angnes of God? On their uniforms we will not find a molecule of dirt? Nothing and never on, almost saints, these organizations and will not throw a shadow?
    timokhin-aa (Alexander Timokhin) and K298rtm (Vladimir Kazakov) give specific facts in the comments. Can you specifically cite something that would refute their statements?
  • faterdom
    faterdom 23 January 2021 15: 44
    +2
    Quote: Tests
    faterdom (Andrey), dear, but when this sad story happened, more precisely, do not remember the years? I don't remember such a story with Freon. Were the boats at SEVMASH, at Zvezdochka or at the base?

    Ask Igor Lozenko - he was then in charge of the Severodvinsk department, if he wants to - he will tell ... And how several groups of black realtors in this former closed city were promoted is also interesting.
  • zenion
    zenion 23 January 2021 18: 51
    0
    "Second. In criticism, it is very important to have constructive proposals for solving the identified problems." Suddenly they remembered what Stalin had said - criticize, offer. Quietly, crawling, they begin to understand that something is not this and not this.
  • Tests
    Tests 23 January 2021 19: 32
    +3
    faterdom (Andrey), dear, thank you very much for the quick response! Igor has not been seen for more than a year, his business keeps him with the "crown" for the best times, and we have seen each other for the last 2-4 years only at the funerals of colleagues ... And about the promotion of several groups of black realtors - honestly, I'm not interested ... Why? In Severodvinsk in 1993, I sat the first group of black realtors in front of the investigators on a chair. 4 episodes survived in court, 4 - the court recognized as civil law relations. There was also an appendage to the two heroes of the "dashing 90s" "Illegal Imprisonment". One of these "heroes" in the pre-trial detention center celebrated his 18th birthday. He bought apartments and cars as a minor ... How was this possible? This is what the investigators asked Ms Bolotova, she made out most of the transactions. Oh, sorry, in those years Rozalia Natanovna remembered her original surname and to this day Severodvinsk remembers her as a notary for Zebzeeva. She had many nephews in Odessa. Aunt Rosa from Severodvinsk, I beg you, I could not help but help my nephews buy decent apartments in Israel! ... Nestor Vlakhovski, I am starting to worry, I can accuse me of doing "... slander towards authoritative people and organizations, manipulation facts and outright stuffing ... "But Aunt Roza Zebzeeva was a witness in the case only thanks to the vigilant supervision of the" sovereign's eye ", so magpies were cracking ... In Severodvinsk at this time, receiving in black on 1 rubles a month, to raise an illegitimate son , from a molded friend - the former 000st secretary of the Belomorsk district committee of the CPSU of the city of Severodvinsk Vanya Tretyak, the city's prosecutor was "Honored Lawyer of the Russian Federation" and "Honorary Worker of the Prosecutor's Office of the Russian Federation", awarded with a personal weapon and diplomas of the Prosecutor of the Arkhangelsk Region, the future "Honorary Citizen of Severodvinsk" Vladimir Petrovich Podgorny ... The white-sided magpies rattled about Podgorny and only about one of his deputies - Mr. Vladimir Arkadievich Noznitsky (he then supervised the inquiry and investigation). They "pressed" the investigators on Aunt Rosa. The stupid birds were probably lying ...
  • faterdom
    faterdom 23 January 2021 22: 33
    +1
    Quote: AAG
    Sorry for the "intrusion". It seems to me alone that Mr. Medvedev's "contribution" to the current situation is greatly underestimated?

    They have now brought him into the shade, like, let the people forget ...
    Believe me, this pepper will still jump out into the political arena.
    So I personally will not stop reminding: Medvedev is the victorious Navalny at the trough of power.
    And vice versa, it is also true.
    They are not antagonists, they are just contenders for the same food base.
  • Arkon
    Arkon 24 January 2021 09: 58
    +1
    These are the ones we need to become! good
  • Klonser
    Klonser 24 January 2021 12: 58
    +2
    Quote: Arkon
    These are the ones we need to become! good

    That's for sure! For my part, I will say that things are not great with Kazan either. The plant was very pushing for the acceptance of the boat with a bunch of imperfections and comments. The commander rested and did not accept. At least that is how friends told me who serve in Kazan.
    1. timokhin-aa
      24 January 2021 20: 05
      0
      Yes, there are so many imperfections there.
      1. Klonser
        Klonser 25 January 2021 02: 39
        +1
        There is not only a flaw, there is a discrepancy with the very principles of a 4th generation submarine! When my friends told me about the tests I wanted to grab my head. What can we say about noiselessness if during the tests Kazan was perfectly heard by Dmitry Donskoy and the IPC who were in support. And their SAC does not belong to the latest technology. By the way, this is one of the reasons why they did not accept it. And how other orders are "undressed" in order to rearrange the details on Kazan is the same horror. In general, they will not hand it over until June at least. And when they pass it is not yet a fact that it will correspond to the TTZ.
        1. ccsr
          ccsr 25 January 2021 12: 00
          -3
          Quote: Klonser
          And how other orders are "undressed" in order to rearrange the details on Kazan is the same horror.

          Actually, this is a business of industry, and the military has nothing to do with it, so you should not pull your hair out on this occasion. What the hell does it matter to the customer where did that come from if the estimate was not violated?
          Quote: Klonser
          In general, they will not hand it over until June at least.

          Will this fundamentally change the state of sea strategic nuclear forces at the current moment? This will not change anything, except that if the deadline was severely disrupted (and it could be postponed legally), then the industry will not receive bonuses and awards, but the naval chiefs will prepare a bunch of papers for excuses. As they say, swam - we know ...

          Quote: Klonser
          And when they pass it is not yet a fact that it will correspond to the TTZ.

          In general, this should be reflected in the act of the selection committee, and it is unlikely that if this gets to the boss on the table, he will want to approve the document with such a conclusion. This issue was resolved back in Soviet times at interdepartmental meetings, the results of which could change or amend the TTZ - so your statement is unfounded. Nobody wants to go under the article, therefore, they will rather change the TTZ itself legally - this is provided for by GOSTs. Or they will not accept the product at all, if this affects the fundamental characteristics and will extend the development period until the comments are eliminated. I think that's exactly what will happen.
          1. timokhin-aa
            30 January 2021 20: 33
            -1
            Your willingness to justify any bestiality is overwhelming. Is this character trait?

            Answer from Klimov, I post it as he is banned.

            Ensign TsTSSRE:
            What the hell does it matter to the customer where did that come from if the estimate was not violated?


            MK: Here YOU "took off your pants" - YOURSELF. This YOUR phrase clearly says that in your activity YOU have not come across anything real on the subject of R&D and serial production.

            Ensign TsTSSRE:
            As they say, swam - we know ...


            MK: IN THE PUDDLE YOU "floated" Monsieur Warrant Officer ...

            Ensign TsTSSRE:

            reflected in the act of the selection committee, and it is unlikely if it gets to the head on
            table, he will want to approve the document with such a conclusion.


            MK: BRED - see the head ("Severodvinsk") adopted with "terry" inconsistencies with the TTZ (and not at the time of signing, but UNTIL)

            Ensign TsTSSRE:
            the issue was resolved back in Soviet times at interdepartmental meetings, the results of which could change, or amendments are made to the TTZ


            MK:
            Ensign, no need to drag the drunken nonsense of YOUR homies ensigns from hrU-hrU-hrU here :)
            For if the TTZ was approved by the Decree of the Central Committee of the CPSU and the Council of Ministers of the USSR, then SEVERAL attempts to replace it with "joint decisions" in the USSR ended in CRIMINAL CASES (for example, the torpedo USET-80 (UST-A)
            "hatched" by a joint decision of the Navy and the OPK instead of the UST torpedo set by the Decree of the Central Committee and CM)
            1. ccsr
              ccsr 31 January 2021 12: 36
              0
              Quote: timokhin-aa
              Your willingness to justify any bestiality is overwhelming. Is this character trait?

              I do not make excuses for someone, but I tell such amateurs like you how it all really happens in life.
              Quote: timokhin-aa
              Here YOU "took off your pants" - YOURSELF. This YOUR phrase clearly says that in your activity YOU have not come across anything real on the subject of R&D and serial production.

              Klimov is the same verbiage as you are - as they say, two pair of boots. But the fact that both of you and close to the customers were not obvious to me.

              Quote: timokhin-aa
              MK: BRED - see the head ("Severodvinsk") adopted with "terry" inconsistencies with the TTZ (and not at the time of signing, but UNTIL)

              After all, Klimov is lying, because he did not see the act, who signed it and the opinion of the commission members does not know who approved the act and with what reservations, he also does not know, but he is a great whistle, and I have known this for a long time. He has only cheap show-off, built on rumors of some offended or simply pushed away from the order.
              Quote: timokhin-aa
              For if the TTZ was approved by the Decree of the Central Committee of the CPSU and the Council of Ministers of the USSR, then SEVERAL attempts

              This clown does not even know that TTZ is not approved by the Resolution - well, what can we talk about with this swindler? After all, he does not hesitate to lie on any occasion, and such amateurs as you believe him.
              1. timokhin-aa
                1 February 2021 22: 57
                0
                Answer from Klimov:

                Ensign TsTSSR:
                I do not make excuses for someone, but I tell such amateurs like you how it all really happens in life.


                MK: an illiterate dilettante (who has no idea of ​​either R&D or intelligence) here is a warrant officer of TsTSSRE, and "how it happens in life" he only knows how to "milk cows" and "store footcloths"

                Ensign TsTSSR:
                Klimov is the same verbiage as you are - as they say, two pair of boots. But the fact that both of you and close to the customers were not obvious to me.


                MK: Ensign, keep with you (for the doctor) YOUR "squirrels" (with other ensigns from the warehouse). YOU had nothing to do with R&D, or with the order of the AME, or intelligence.

                Ensign TsTSSR:
                After all, Klimov is lying, because he did not see the act, who signed it and the opinion of the commission members does not know who approved the act and with what reservations, he also does not know, but he is a great whistle, and I have known this for a long time. He has only cheap show-off, built on rumors of some offended or simply pushed away from the order.


                MK: Warrant officer TsTSSRe is lying and ignorant. The article on "Severodvinsk" contained FACTS and LINKS to arbitrations for 160 orders. Moreover, the FALSE STUFF is a warrant officer of the TsTSSR and a SCHOOLER, - I am writing about the TTZ (not the correspondence to which on the 160th order is clearly visible from the materials of the arbitration), and he, in response, is about the "act" (i.e., CONSCIOUSLY engaged in "substitution of the thesis")

                Ensign TsTSSRe:
                This clown does not even know that TTZ is not approved by the Resolution - well, what can we talk about with this swindler? After all, he does not hesitate to lie on any occasion, and such amateurs as you believe him.


                MK: Brehlo TsTSSR, in the Resolution indicate the REQUIREMENTS on the basis of which the TTZ is "detailed", i.e. TTZ cannot fail to comply with the Resolution. Specifically, according to USET-80, the reason for initiating a criminal case was not even the "obtuseness" of USET, but the fact that it was handed over to the Navy with completely different performance characteristics (UST-A, which appeared as a "joint decision of the Navy and SMEs") which was set by the Resolution UST)

                And as has already become a tradition
                The ensign flaunts the fact that he was somewhere and did something, but in fact, he solved issues in the service like this:



                We also pay attention to how ccsr is written in the Russian layout - he did it on purpose, he enjoys such deviant behavior, they say, look how I climbed up to decent people with such a nickname, but they didn't notice, hahaha. And then secretly rejoices. This same pathology forces the ensign to write what he writes.
                He got smart words on the forums, and you can even show them on which ones. He knows nothing but clearing snow.
                1. nsm1
                  nsm1 1 February 2021 23: 22
                  -1
                  Is it like dirt?
                  What's so "criminal" about the ccsr message?
                  Have you served at all?
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  • Klonser
    Klonser 25 January 2021 13: 18
    0
    What good is it when the screws are removed from Krasnoyarsk and Arkhangelsk and put on Kazan. This will shift the completion dates for the next boats. And then we are surprised at the construction time. Of course, the TTZ can be changed in the direction of deterioration of characteristics, but this will indicate that the industry cannot build nuclear submarines according to the requirements of the fleet. Well, about the quality of construction too.