Russia is considering the possibility of creating floating airfields

For further use in the Arctic zone, Russia is considering the possibility of creating floating airfields. The Nevskoye Design Bureau has already taken up this issue.

This is reported in the materials of the PKB, dedicated to the 90th anniversary of this organization and received at the disposal of the news agency TASS.

It says that such floating platforms will become centers that resolve issues of providing all spheres of activity of the Russian Federation and its partners in the Arctic zone. Now the bureau is carrying out a pre-design study of the constructive appearance of these unusual airfields.

The Nevsky PKB reported that such floating platforms are capable of providing aircraft with their runways in any weather in the harsh conditions of the Arctic. They can be used by transport, military and rescue aviation... They will serve as a basis for the development of Arctic gas fields, ensure the safe operation of the Northern Sea Route, and will also be used to solve the tasks set by the Russian Ministry of Defense.

The Nevsky Design Bureau is part of the United Shipbuilding Corporation. It created about 300 ships and vessels, including the flagships of the fleets of Russia, China and India.

Comments

[Proton]

At least I would like to learn general performance characteristics, principles of construction and operation. Little information.

[Insurgent]

Russia is considering the possibility of creating floating airfields

There is also a project of an aircraft carrier codenamed "Varan", presented by the Nevsky Design Bureau, which is one of the largest domestic developers of universal ships and the only designer of aircraft carriers and training complexes in Russia.
Yesterday PKB celebrated the 90th anniversary of its foundation.

According to the project, the "Varan" training complex should be an aircraft-carrying complex, characterized by a high degree of automation and the possibility of using robotic systems. It is expected to carry 24 multipurpose aircraft, six helicopters and up to 20 UAVs for various purposes on board.
The ship's displacement is expected to be about 45 thousand tons, length - about 250 m, width - 65 m, draft at the structural waterline - 9 m. According to calculations, "Varan" can have a speed of up to 26 knots.

[Temples]

They can be used by transport, military and rescue aircraft.

After landing a transport plane, it (the plane) needs to be put somewhere.
More cargo needs to be transported to another vessel.
There should be berths and facilities for cargo transfer.
What size should this "barge" be?

For example, the IL-114 run is 550m.
Takeoff run even more - 750 m.

And this is a small plane.

Good idea, but where will they build?
There are no such shipyards in Russia.
Not yet.

[alexmach]

After landing a transport plane, it (the plane) needs to be put somewhere.

And who said that we are talking about an airplane then?

[Alex777]

The Nevsky PKB reported that such floating platforms are capable of providing aircraft with their runways in any weather in the harsh conditions of the Arctic. They can be used by transport, military and rescue aviation.

But where they will fly after taking off is not very clear.
Only helicopters will board the ships.
If they can sit on the ice?
There are more questions than answers.

[Piramidon]

Quote: Temples

Good idea, but where will they build?
There are no such shipyards in Russia.
Not yet.

Alternatively, use a modular principle. Roughly speaking, several "barges" docked in a row.

[gvozdan]

Most likely a modular building afloat

[Andrey.AN]

An-2 will rather fly like buses, cargo ships.

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: Andrey.AN

An-2 will rather fly like buses, cargo ships.

Aha, and AN-2 WHERE TO GET? Will we buy in China?

[Andrey.AN]

In 2017, as part of a deep modernization of the An-2, SibNIA developed a new all-composite light aircraft TVS-2DTS "Baikal". In July 2017, a prototype of the new aircraft made its first test flight [17]. Serial production of the Baikal aircraft should begin in 2021 at the Ulan-Ude Aviation Plant, and the Yakut airline Polar Airlines will become the first operator. [18]

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: Andrey.AN

Serial production of the Baikal aircraft should begin in 2021 at the Ulan-Ude Aviation Plant, and the Yakut airline Polar Airlines will be the first operator.

They put an end to the TVS-2DTS plane
January 14 2020
34k reads
1 minutes.

The TVS-2DTS "Baikal" aircraft, developed at the Novosibirsk SibNIA named after Chaplygin, will not be put into mass production; earlier its mass production was planned to begin in 2021 at the Ulan-Ude aircraft plant. The one-piece composite aircraft is not suitable for open storage in the North. Director of SibNIA Vladimir Barsuk told about this in an interview with Sibnet.ru

https://zen.yandex.ru/media/aviaru/na-samolete-tvs2dts-postavili-krest-5e1d87bde3062c00b102efd7
And then a bummer. It was planned to use American engines. Ugh, we can't even make a corn plant ...

[Andrey.AN]

Yes, indeed - "As a result, the officials of the Ministry of Industry and Trade made a choice in favor of the development of a subsidiary of the Ural Civil Aviation Plant (UZGA). Baikal-Engineering LLC won a tender a year ago, and its light aircraft design has undergone significant changes compared to the An-2. First of all, the biplane will turn into a monoplane, and its capacity should increase to 12-14 passengers. works in conjunction with UEC-Klimov.

Apparently, the Ministry of Industry and Trade is waiting for a budget analogue of the Canadian DHC-6 Twin Otter. It is estimated that the demand for "Baikals" in the next five years may be at least 230 units in our country. The project is tentatively estimated at 4,5 billion rubles. Let's hope the plane lives up to its expectations. "

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: Andrey.AN

The project is tentatively estimated at 4,5 billion rubles.

AN-10 cannot replace 2 years. Two five-year plans. During this time, in the 30s, the USSR built thousands of factories. The same AN-2 has been produced since 47. Just two years after the war.

[Alien From]

These are dreamers and sawmills who "create" such projects ((

[Andrey.AN]

Baikal's mileage is no longer.

[DenZ]

Quote: Temples

For example, the IL-114 run is 550m.
Takeoff run even more - 750 m.
And this is a small plane.

I think that these airfields will not be created for the Il-114 in the first place.
"will ensure the safe operation of the Northern Sea Route, and will also be involved in solving the tasks set by the RF Ministry of Defense."

[Guru]

They will be able to use transport, military and rescue aviation. They will serve as the basis for the development of Arctic gas fields, ensure the safe operation of the Northern Sea Route, and will also be used to solve the tasks set by the Russian Ministry of Defense.

250 meters for transport will not be enough, so "Varan" disappears. I think it will be a "Barge", perhaps several barges connected together, like ferry crossings ..

[Nross]

Will not be. The operating cost will be prohibitive.
In order to put a 200t (or at least 100) transporter on a barge, this must be a rigidly coupled platform with a length of 1500-3000m. if you leave such a platform at least in 3-point excitement, it will be blown apart. Those. for each landing / takeoff, docking / undocking will need to be done.
An aerodrome on a Suzha and / or an amphibian will be orders of magnitude cheaper.

[abrakadabre]

possibly several barges connected together, like ferry crossings ..

What happens to the landing gear of a standard, rather than specially reinforced, aircraft when crossing a junction between barges at speed? Especially loaded, at the beginning of braking or at the end of the takeoff run. That is, at a speed close to the separation speed.
Even large barges in waves will move relative to each other: in height, inclination. With the corresponding formation of a runway bend or step / slide / pit. On the scale of the barges themselves, these would be minor displacements. But for an airplane, or rather hitting the landing gear when moving over irregularities, it can be very sensitive. And how is the head during ice drift? For the Arctic, though.

[mark1]

Have you crossed "Varan" with the UDC under construction? Just V.I. up to 40 tons jumped.

[Xnumx vis]

In Soviet times, exercises were carried out to re-equip dry-cargo tankers into aircraft-carrying ships.

[halpat]

Quote: Proton

At least I would like to learn general performance characteristics, principles of construction and operation. Little information

The icebreaker aircraft carrier is called

[Flooding]

Quote: Halpat

The icebreaker aircraft carrier is called

Most likely the base is not self-propelled.
Perhaps even stationary, somewhat analogous to offshore drilling.
The most interesting thing at this moment is the power supply.
Aeu begs.

[Guru]

Aeu begs.

I think the same Lomonosov floating nuclear power plant will be installed side by side.

[Flooding]

Expensive, redundant.
An obvious plus of such a solution (airfield platform) is its relative cheapness with the necessary functionality, reliability and relative ease of maintenance.

[Guru]

Expensive, redundant

The Nevsky Design Bureau probably understands this, we will wait for their proposals.

[halpat]

Quote: Flood

Quote: Halpat

The icebreaker aircraft carrier is called

Most likely the base is not self-propelled.
Perhaps even stationary, somewhat analogous to offshore drilling.
The most interesting thing at this moment is the power supply.
Aeu begs.

And we need to put 2-3 of these stations nearby.

[Flooding]

Quote: Halpat

And we need to put 2-3 of these stations nearby.

It will be cheaper to build aircraft-carrying icebreakers.

[halpat]

Quote: Flood

Quote: Halpat

And we need to put 2-3 of these stations nearby.

It will be cheaper to build aircraft-carrying icebreakers.

what money when it comes to the Russian championship in the Arctic?
Such a complex:
Floating air base
Floating nuclear power plant
And 2-3 floating polar stations
And drift

[Flooding]

And a mobile submarine base.
Project Leviathan.

[Grits]

Quote: Flood

It will be cheaper to build aircraft-carrying icebreakers.

It is even cheaper to build ground-based airfields on the coast of the Arctic.

[Flooding]

Quote: Gritsa

It is even cheaper to build ground airfields on the coast of the Arctic

Apparently, this option does not provide sufficient proximity to the Northern Sea Route.

[Cowbra]

Quote: Flood

somewhat similar to offshore drilling.

Doubtful. Arctic. Pack ice is not a toy, it cannot be attached to the bottom, rather something like UDC, adapted for transport or cargo helicopters, suggests itself. but in an icebreaker-type hull.

Quote: Halpat

And we need to put 2-3 of these stations nearby.

And these are they, the airfields - and they are. Maybe they will slightly increase, although in the photo and so - a three-entrance five-story building with a basement - it will do for a warehouse

[Flooding]

Quote: Cowbra

Doubtful. Arctic. Pack ice is not a toy, you cannot attach to the bottom

The Norwegians are dragging their oil platforms from Korea to the Arctic Circle.
Americans - to Alaska from Singapore.
And somehow they manage to mine.

[barclay]

It seems that the creation and operation of such platforms will be a very big pretty penny. What will only be the cost of the ice protection system. Yes, there must be a nuclear reactor for power supply - no less.

[Guru]

It seems that the creation and operation of such platforms will be a very big pretty penny.

And building on permafrost is even more expensive, and an airfield is needed

[PSih2097]

Quote: Proton

At least I would like to learn general performance characteristics, principles of construction and operation. Little information.

something like that ...

[Lipchanin]

Quote: Proton

At least I would like to learn general performance characteristics, principles of construction and operation. Little information.

Where does it come from if

Working out this issue the Nevskoe Design Bureau is already occupied.

[Civil]

https://topwar.ru/85791-ot-avianosca-k-morskomu-mobilnomu-aerodromnomu-kompleksu.html
6 years ago the article was

[Zhan]

Quote: Proton

At least I would like to learn general performance characteristics, principles of construction and operation. Little information.

Most likely, these will be pontoon modules with the possibility of heating the runway. The question is what will be the size of the pontoons, the most rational runway length, how the take-off and landing control will be organized, most likely there will be a separate floating control room module, the issue of energy supply. But in general, I think this will be a very successful solution, especially in the Arctic zone, permafrost, as it turned out to be not eternal, it becomes very problematic to build ground runways.

[Flooding]

Quote: Zhan

Most likely, these will be pontoon modules with the possibility of heating the runway.

Pontoons in multiyear ice conditions?

[Zhan]

Well, let's just say, within the coastal zone, they are not so eternal, and given the mass of all assembled pontoons in the runway, I think they are unlikely to be able to press or damage such a massive structure.

[Flooding]

Quote: Zhan

Well, let's just say, within the coastal zone, they are not so eternal, and given the mass of all assembled pontoons in the runway, I think they are unlikely to be able to press or damage such a massive structure.

If within the coastal zone, then why fence a vegetable garden?
When is it cheaper and more expedient to build a polar airfield on the coast?

And the point, of course, is not the massiveness of the pontoons. And in the use of fairly thin-walled materials in their production. Which will not withstand a collision or growing into the ice.

[Zhan]

And the point, of course, is not the massiveness of the pontoons. And in the use of fairly thin-walled materials in their production. Which will not withstand a collision or growing into the ice.

I would readily agree with you. Well, we in the army have experience of working with pontoon crossings, there are developments, there is something to start from. And to fence this whole vegetable garden, I think because of the permafrost, in recent years the thawing of this permafrost has begun to grow and it is becoming more and more difficult to calculate the planting of soil and cover during the construction of a land strip.

[Flooding]

Quote: Zhan

... And to fence this whole garden, I think because of the permafrost,

There are soils and there are stony soils. Not sure if this is the problem.

[John22]

Put the same pontoons on leveled ground and use them to make a cushion for the runway. Top cover with heating and moisture suction or hot air blowing. It's easier than fighting ice and ice movement. I think so.

[abrakadabre]

it is becoming more and more difficult to calculate the planting of soil and cover when building a land strip.

Drive piles 50 meters deep, entangle with cooling pipelines and close them from sunlight. And you will be happy.
The Chinese successfully solved a similar problem during the construction of a railway through the Tibetan Highlands: a lot of large-diameter pipes were laid across the embankment under the canvas with an embankment on top. Than insulated the massive embankment heated by the sun from the alpine permafrost. Natural wind cooling also occurs through the pipes. Here's an example of how to solve the problem. And even without forced freezing.

[abrakadabre]

considering the mass of all the assembled pontoons in the runway, I think they are unlikely to be able to press or damage such a massive structure.

Even the hull of icebreakers is made to jump upward when compressed by ice. So as not to be crushed like a nut. Despite the fact that the thickness of the skin of the icebreaker is very large. The pontoon will simply crush with ice. Regardless of their cyclopicity.

[Piramidon]

Quote: Flood

Quote: Zhan

Most likely, these will be pontoon modules with the possibility of heating the runway.

Pontoons in multiyear ice conditions?

A pair of icebreakers is included with the airfield, let them walk in circles and chop off the ice

[Maki maki]

Quote: Proton

I would like to know the general performance characteristics, the principles of construction and operation

This is still a concept. It is not clear whether they are developing on an initiative basis or by order?

[ALARI]

I am tormented by vague doubts about this structure, is it not called an aircraft carrier all over the world? And can we build them? Again, money is not a wind, sorry R&D, development for the sake of development.

[mark1]

A step towards the creation of stationary combat platforms along the NSR. We are on the right course, comrades!

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: mark1

A step towards the creation of stationary combat platforms along the NSR. We are on the right course, comrades!

Airplanes often roll out of the runway. And then where will it roll out? To the Arctic Ocean? This is a bad idea for me. I would not want to be on the plane that will land on the entu barge. We are on the wrong course, comrades!

[mark1]

You don't know the design dimensions. And you just don't know anything about the project. Type did not read but condemn.

Quote: Mordvin 3

We are on the wrong course, comrades!

Do not go...

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: mark1

Do not go...

And I'm not going to go anywhere. In my opinion, this venture will come out with a big zilch in vegetable oil.

[mark1]

Quote: Mordvin 3

from this venture will come out a large zilch in vegetable oil.

You can spoil everything, but I like the idea. Moreover, to some extent, this is my idea (in the sense of the idea of ​​stationary combat platforms along the NSR, I came several years ago), so I don't just like it, but really like it.

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: mark1

Quote: Mordvin 3

from this venture will come out a large zilch in vegetable oil.

You can spoil everything, but I like the idea. Moreover, to some extent, this is my idea (in the sense of the idea of ​​stationary combat platforms along the NSR, I came several years ago), so I don't just like it, but really like it.

And you read the comments below. There, the commander of the aircraft Bez 310 and the captain of the ship Galleon, are sure that this is an empty idea.

[mark1]

Yes, many people are sure that this is an empty idea, and many are sure that it is not empty. Let's proceed from the fact that bases along the NSR are needed (since we undertake to defend it). The closer these bases are to the pilotage route, the better in terms of control and counteraction. We do not know what design solutions the PKB has. I think that we need to wait for the presentation of the finished project and, on this basis, draw conclusions about its viability or vice versa. For some reason I think that it will not be a floating barge but a stationary on supports (possibly using freezing). In general, to see you have to live - we'll wait and see.

[Bez 310]

Quote: Mordvin 3

There the commander of the aircraft Bez 310

No need to call names!
1. The military does not have a PIC, they have a ship (crew) commander.
2. I ask you not to apply the word "pilot" to me, for me
it is offensive, since I am a navigator.
3. All the details are here:
https://t.me/moraviaciya

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: Bez 310

since I am a navigator.

I beg your pardon, I forgot.

[alekseykabanets]

Quote: Mordvin 3

In my opinion, this venture will come out with a big zilch in vegetable oil.

Who knows, they might actually do something for oil and gas projects. Although there is nothing to talk about yet. We can create projects better than anyone in the world, but about the implementation ...

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: aleksejkabanets

We can create projects better than anyone in the world, but about the implementation ...

Yes, they will create this project for twenty years. And there either the donkey dies, or the padishah And there it turns out that there is no place to build it, and our non-brothers make the cable for the phishiner, and similar problems.

[Runway]

Extremely idiotic idea-idea. Given the geography of the Arctic, the presence of runways on the mainland and islands. I hope the project will die, like the idea of ​​the Sakhalin bridge.

[timokhin-aa]

At least someone said as it is

[Piramidon]

Quote: Mordvin 3

Airplanes often roll out of the runway. And then where will it roll out?

To put a powerful emergency "nonsense" at the end of the strip. Such a system has long been tested on aircraft-carrying ships.

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: Piramidon

To put a powerful emergency "nonsense" at the end of the strip. Such a system has long been tested on aircraft-carrying ships.

Lightweight fighters land on Aviks, but what is the mass of the transport? Either the plane will fall apart to hell, or this barge will be ripped off from anchors. In addition, to take off from the Avik, the last acceleration takes, and this miracle trough is motionless. Well, tell me, where am I wrong? If the ropes of the Kuzi in the Mediterranean Sea were torn, then in low temperatures they will become fragile and even more so they burst. Or are you going to heat them somehow? Damn, the more I think about this project, the more cons I find.

[Lipchanin]

Quote: Mordvin 3

Lightweight fighters land on aviks

Why did you run into aircraft carriers? Well, where is it written in the satya that it will be an aircraft carrier?
Well read it carefully

The Nevsky PKB reported that such floating platforms

Where is the aircraft carrier?
It will be the same arodrome, only on the water. He won't float anywhere
Do you know oil and gas platforms?
So most likely it will be something like, only much more

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: Lipchanin

It will be the same arodrome, only on the water.

And I am writing about it. The fact that it is stationary, and this is a real disadvantage, in contrast to the aircraft carrier, which, with its acceleration, gives the aircraft additional acceleration during takeoff.

[Lipchanin]

Quote: Mordvin 3

which, by its acceleration, gives the aircraft additional acceleration during takeoff.

Why should he overclock?
They take off at airfields without any acceleration.
It will be the same airfield, only on the water.
Forget about the movement.
After all, PLATFORM is written in Russian in white.
Well, the platform can't move!
Gas and oil in the sea are extracted from platforms and they do not move anywhere, they stand quietly in place and work

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: Lipchanin

It will be the same airfield, only on the water.

I understood that perfectly. But here's the parsley. At the slightest storm, he will fall apart to hell. Rosneft could not keep the dock, but here is an entire airfield.

[Lipchanin]

Quote: Mordvin 3

At the slightest storm, he will fall apart to hell.

Have storms destroyed many oil-producing platforms?

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: Lipchanin

Have storms destroyed many oil-producing platforms?

Oil-producing platforms are very scanty in comparison with the airfield.

[abrakadabre]

Forget about the movement.

And also forget about pack ice, ice fields, excitement, ebb / flow, regular rapid glaciation of the surface?

[Piramidon]

Quote: Mordvin 3

And what is the mass of the transport?

Transport aviation is a broad concept. Starting with Mi-8 and An-2 and ending with "Antey" and "Ruslans"

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: Piramidon

An-2

We don't have AN-2. We buy them from China. In, have sunk.

[abrakadabre]

Lightweight fighters land on aviks, but what is the mass of the transport?

And even lightweight aircraft are very difficult to hold with brake cables. The cables break quite often. And the design of the aircraft themselves for such a landing is significantly enhanced.

[apro]

A floating platform ... is it an aircraft carrier for a simple ??? or another breakthrough project.

[Avior]

Somewhere I saw it
The Habakkuk project, exactly. From pikerite - a mixture of ice with sawdust, it's not for nothing that it is northern.

https://ru.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Проект_Хабаккук_(авианосец)

https://topwar.ru/154376-proekt-habakkuk-osobyj-avianosec-iz-osobogo-materiala.html

[meandr51]

This is an iceberg. And they turn over ...

[Avior]

Not necessary. Most of the iceberg is underwater

[Flooding]

Quote: Avior

From pykerite - a mixture of ice and sawdust

The idea was that such a mixture does not melt for a long time, it keeps the structure in lower latitudes.
But in our case, the sawdust is unnecessary.

[for]

Why build, take the "aircraft carrier" Alaska, as the "aircraft carrier" Crimea was taken.

[Bez 310]

"This issue is already being worked out
Nevsky Design Bureau. "
A great opportunity to learn
budget money.

[Lipchanin]

Quote: Bez 310

A great opportunity to learn
budget money.

Well then, don't you have to do anything at all?
After all, any business is the development of funds, be it budgetary or sponsored

[Bez 310]

Quote: Lipchanin

Well then, don't you have to do anything at all?

There are things that are much more important than "floating airfields."

[Insurgent]

Quote: Bez 310

There are things that are much more important than "floating airfields."

What could be more important than taking care of the safety of your borders?
Immunity is primary , and already inside, in peace and tranquility, somehow it will come together ...

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Insurgent

What could be more important than taking care of the safety of your borders?

Good question, but what does the floating airfield have to do with it? What tasks can he solve? This piece will cost several times more than a conventional air base, while, if you look at the military designation, it lacks the main trump card of an aircraft carrier - mobility. What for?

[Lipchanin]

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

This thing will cost several times more than a regular air base,

Airbase on permafrost?
Ha ha 2 times.
Many times more expensive

, she is deprived of the main trump card of the aircraft carrier - mobility.

Is there no airbase?
This is the first thing. And secondly

The Nevsky PKB reported that such floating platforms are capable of providing aircraft with their runways in any weather in the harsh Arctic conditions. They can be used by transport, military and rescue aircraft. They will serve as a basis for the development of Arctic gas fields, ensure the safe operation of the Northern Sea Route, and will also be used to solve the tasks set by the Russian Ministry of Defense.

Why does she need mobility?
This is the same airfield, only in ice

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Lipchanin

Airbase on permafrost?
Ha ha 2 times.
Many times more expensive

Many times (if not multiples) cheaper. In permafrost conditions. From ice / snow runway up to 4 km. Accepts all types of aircraft.

[abrakadabre]

Airbase on permafrost?

With all the distribution of permafrost in high latitudes, in the north you can find enough places with rock outcrops to the surface plus or minus a few meters. If permafrost frightens you so. The floating base will be many times, if not orders of magnitude more expensive

[Lipchanin]

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

What tasks can he solve?

Yes, these are

that such floating platforms are capable of providing aircraft with their runways in any weather in the harsh Arctic conditions. They can be used by transport, military and rescue aircraft. They will serve as a basis for the development of Arctic gas fields, ensure the safe operation of the Northern Sea Route, and will also be used to solve the tasks set by the Russian Ministry of Defense.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Lipchanin

Yes, these are

That is, those that will be decided by an ordinary airfield, which will cost several times (if not an order of magnitude) cheaper.

[Lipchanin]

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

That is, those that will be decided by an ordinary airfield, which will cost several times (if not an order of magnitude) cheaper.

Well, the airfield on the permafrost cannot be much cheaper.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Lipchanin

Well, the airfield on the permafrost cannot be much cheaper.

Why would you? Why are you so confused by the permafrost? During the construction of the runway - there is practically no earthwork, the foundation is permafrost, where is it cooler?
But in order to create a pontoon 4 km long, and even sufficiently resistant to the effects of ice, and even made of steel, capable of withstanding the landing of heavy aircraft ...

[Lipchanin]

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

Why are you so confused by the permafrost?

The fact that she began to melt.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Lipchanin

The fact that she began to melt.

So what of that? :))) There are at least 40 airfields in Antarctica and the adjacent islands today, which are quite functional, despite global warming :)))

[Machito]

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

Quote: Insurgent

What could be more important than taking care of the safety of your borders?

Good question, but what does the floating airfield have to do with it? What tasks can he solve? This piece will cost several times more than a conventional air base, while, if you look at the military designation, it lacks the main trump card of an aircraft carrier - mobility. What for?

What do you mean why? Assimilation of budgetary funds to develop technologies that have no analogues in the world.

[Lipchanin]

Quote: Bez 310

There are things that are much more important than "floating airfields."

Oh really?
Is the Arctic no longer needed?

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Lipchanin

Is the Arctic no longer needed?

The Arctic is needed. But why are floating airfields?

[Lipchanin]

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

But why are floating airfields?

Floating does not mean it will float like a ship. He will be afloat like a panton for example
But in general, why are airfields?

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Lipchanin

Floating does not mean it will float like a ship. He will be afloat like a panton for example

Uh-huh. Pontoon in arctic conditions

[Machito]

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

Quote: Lipchanin

Floating does not mean it will float like a ship. He will be afloat like a panton for example

Uh-huh. Pontoon in arctic conditions

Yeah, frost-resistant monkeys will run through the taiga, collect pine nuts and put them in boxes. (C) Garage

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Bearded

Yeah, frost-resistant monkeys will run in the taiga, collect pine nuts

Otters!
“In the depths of the tundra, otters in leggings, poke cedar kernels into buckets.
I will wipe the face of an otter with a gaiter, an otter into the tundra, kernels into buckets! "

[Piramidon]

Quote: Bez 310

Quote: Lipchanin

Well then, don't you have to do anything at all?

There are things that are much more important than "floating airfields."

Everyone has their own priorities. Someone needs to build airfields and protect the country's borders, and someone wants to divide and distribute everything

[faiver]

looks more like a big money laundering

[APASUS]

What kind of beast is this? A floating airfield with a long runway of 3000 meters or how transport aviation will use it

[Ros 56]

However, this thing is called the aircraft carrier. But seriously, I can hardly imagine the use of such a device in the north in terms of weather, travel, ice and other conditions. This colossus will freeze and drift wherever God sends.

[Guru]

However, this thing is called the aircraft carrier. wassat But seriously, I can hardly imagine the use of such a device in the north in terms of weather, navigation, ice and other conditions. This colossus will freeze and drift wherever God sends. fellow

As I understand it, Yuri, you have never lived in the north?

[Ros 56]

No, I did not live, I only read books and watched documentaries about the explorers of the North and the conquerors of the North Pole, many of them cost their lives, but the dream ... ... remained a dream. Well, who does not know about Chelyuskin, Sedov and much more. And only now, having a certain amount, you can easily visit the joint venture.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Guru

As I understand it, Yuri, you have never lived in the north?

Oleg, what did you want to say? I have lived for about 7 years in territories equated to the Far North, and I do not see anything inappropriate in Yuri's comments

[Guru]

Oleg, what did you want to say? I have lived for about 7 years in territories equated to the Far North, and I do not see anything inappropriate in Yuri's comments

I didn’t say anything of the kind, and neither was it appropriate. Yuri cannot imagine - I quote:

I can hardly imagine both in weather, and in running, and in ice and other conditions

Having lived in the North for over 30 years, I can imagine it perfectly. Especially what is the construction of something capital at - 50 and with a breeze (Yamal). And I lived in KhMAO.
So Yuri "Don't roll the barrel at me"

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Guru

Especially what is the construction of something capital at - 50 and with a breeze (Yamal). And I lived in KhMAO.

I also:))))))) But that's how I'm Andrey :)))))

[Guru]

Oops, sorry.

[Ros 56]

Actually, I don't understand, what are you talking about, what particular barrel are you talking about? Specify where and what I specifically said against you. Or not hung over? I sympathize.

[Guru]

Actually, I don't understand, what are you talking about, what particular barrel are you talking about? Specify where and what I specifically said against you. Or not hung over? I sympathize.

I spoke with Andrey and our dialogue with you, mixed up the names. But I apologized see the post above.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Ros 56

Actually, I don't understand, what are you talking about, what particular barrel are you talking about?

Oleg wrote that he did not want to roll a barrel at you :))))

[Lipchanin]

Quote: Ros 56

and on the way,

And what has the running gear?

[Ros 56]

And you already know all the performance characteristics of this device, but in fact, the aircraft carrier also walks and floats on water.

[Lipchanin]

Who told you that it would be an aircraft carrier?

[abrakadabre]

This colossus will freeze and drift wherever God sends.

And sooner or later it will send it either aground or to the bottom. When it will be pressed by a hundred-kilometer front of perennial ice.

[meandr51]

And how is this different from an aircraft carrier? For special aircraft only.

[Guru]

And how is this different from an aircraft carrier? For special aircraft only.

The fact that this is NOT an AIRLINER. This is a floating platform. She does not need to sail anywhere, she will be assembled and she will remain in her place tied to the shore.

[Lipchanin]

Quote: meandr51

And how is this different from an aircraft carrier? T

The aircraft carrier is moving.
This airfield stands still

[Home]

Quote: Bez 310

A great opportunity to learn
budget money.

It's funny. In general, such projecting is more in the style of the Krylovtsy, and not the Nevsky PKB.

Quote: APASUS

Floating airfield with a long run of 3000 meters

There is a well-known tovarisch "Sh" in narrow circles of specialized forums, so he has been stubbornly rushing about with this idea for 10 years, despite its frankly low viability.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Nonsense. Why make such an airfield floating? In polar conditions, this is doubly delusional, taking into account the ice situation, in order for this thing to keep the runway, it must be brilliant in value ...

[Andrey.AN]

All the same, the town of blocks to collect, they are floating, there will be an airfield on the roof. It can be positioned where necessary, moved around objects.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Andrey.AN

All the same, the town of blocks to collect, they are floating, there will be an airfield on the roof.

For what?!!! It is much easier to deliver cargo to any platform by ship. Near the coast - it is easier to build an airfield on the coast.

Quote: Andrey.AN

It can be positioned where necessary, moved around objects.

What objects? Where today we do not need an airfield, and tomorrow we do? How is it? :))))) I can understand that some objects require a seasonal airfield, but everybody needs it during the season, and no one needs it outside the season. What are the movements? Can you imagine how difficult and expensive it is to carry such a thing along the NSR, even with icebreakers?

[Andrey.AN]

You never know, they didn’t report, maybe the shift workers would live on it, they would be transported by light aircraft of the An-2 type, and they would build border posts along the NSR with berths and take-offs.

[cniza]

It says that such floating platforms will become centers that resolve issues of providing all spheres of activity of the Russian Federation and its partners in the Arctic zone.

Do we need partners there? Not sure...

[Galleon]

For some reason, today they decided to feed us nonsense. People wake up! What platform? Where will the ice take her? Or crushed, so rastak her. Do you understand what size it should be?
The main purpose of polar aviation is the transportation of goods, there is no one else to carry there. The takeoff weight of the IL-76 is up to 190t, and it needs a takeoff run of 1500-2000m. Dreaming about two-kilometer aircraft carriers?
I think we will meet with delusional and gigantic projects more than once. The IMF does not allow state revenue to be allowed into the economy, so the NWF is already increasing by more than 10%, when it was planned by 7%, and they need to spend the available money as stupidly and irrationally as possible, like bridges to Sakhalin and from there to Japan. In the established funds, under the ban on spending, there are already 596 billion dollars. Wait, it will get more interesting. Stock up on chupa chups, dreamers.

[evgen1221]

And where to put it? On ice water? Will it survive? On the ground, and how to correct the frosting of the soil? Most likely just a drawing on a napkin to mark the anniversary.

[demo]

Building on land is always safer than building on water.
Another cut of money.

The Chinese built a high-mountain railway (it rises to a height of more than 5000) where there are sections (500 km) passing through the permafrost.
This is almost 100 super-large runways.
Well, we (Russia) know how to stuff money into all sorts of bullshit.

[mag nit]

And Rogozin will be given the opportunity to create the Arctic cosmodrome when Vostochny is completed.

[A. Privalov]

I would not like to upset anyone, but even in the "Strategy for the Development of the Arctic Zone of the Russian Federation and Ensuring National Security for the Period until 2013", approved by the President of the Russian Federation in 2020 (a very interesting document on 14 pages, those who wish can familiarize themselves here:
https://minec.gov-murman.ru/activities/strat_plan/arkticzone/) отмечался дефицит самолетов и технологических возможностей по изучению, освоению и использованию арктических пространств и ресурсов, недостаточная готовность к переходу на инновационный путь развития Арктической зоны Российской Федерации и пр. и пр.
7 years passed quickly. The allocated funds have been successfully used.
The Il-112 light transport aircraft intended to replace the An-74 and An-26 remained in production in two copies.
Guess for yourself how many of the 100 capital construction projects located on the territory of the Arctic military bases on Franz Josef Land, Novaya Zemlya, Sredny Island (Severnaya Zemlya archipelago), Cape Schmidt, the Wrangel and Kotelny Islands, which are led by the Ministry of Defense, were put into operation during this time. ..

On October 26, 2020, Russian President Vladimir Putin signed the "Strategy for the Development of the Russian Arctic Zone and Ensuring National Security until 2035".
(A very interesting document is already on 42 pages. Those who wish can familiarize themselves with it here:
http://publication.pravo.gov.ru/Document/View/0001202010260033)
The plan is wisely calculated not for 7, but for 15 years, with the corresponding allocation of funding from the state budget ...

Three months have passed, it's time to report on the work done and here it is, the first swallow!
The Nevsky Design Bureau is already working on the creation of a floating airfield.
We wish this work collective new achievements and successes in the field of "ensuring all spheres of activity of the Russian Federation and its partners in the Arctic zone."

[ZVS]

If you are considering such projects, which are fucking unnecessary, because their content will result in a pretty penny, it would be better if military pensions were restored in full, but civilian pensioners were added. Pensions will really work for the economy, and the airfields will eat up the budget.

[dgonni]

Floating airfield, this is an aircraft carrier!

[srha]

Skeptics.
Floating airfields were built back in the USSR in the 30s, on ice (now too). Once I read studies on the landing of heavy aircraft on them, calculations of bends, stresses, strength, etc. Are today's materials worse than past ice?
By the way, all the arguments about a single platform such as one barge (aircraft carrier) are not true. In different countries, research was carried out on parking, takeoffs, landing of aircraft on floating flexible (type-setting, coupled) platforms (I read Japanese on pontoons and Soviet on ice), and so landing by pilots was recognized even safer than on the ground, due to deflection landing platforms - reducing accuracy requirements.

[abrakadabre]

Are current materials really worse than past ice?

Of course worse. For economic reasons. Ice is free.

[IRS]

A very promising idea, it's a pity that its presence was published in the media, you need to keep quiet about this.
The concept of using aircraft carriers has not been canceled. Yes, today they have become vulnerable in their modern design, but who said that the very idea of ​​having an airfield in any part of the sea is outdated? ... There are pontoon bridges that have been used for a long time. What prevents from developing this idea to full-fledged naval bases built on a modular type is only the absence of the need for such. But these times are passing - ahead of the race for the Arctic. ... A modular airfield with decentralized control, unlike an aircraft carrier, will be extremely difficult to destroy with conventional weapons, it will only be possible to get into it by breaking through an air defense barrier, which is very expensive, however ... what consists of parts will be assembled again and will continue to function , and it will all cost three orders of magnitude cheaper than any aircraft carrier to build and the same amount of times cheaper to operate. Of course, such a platform will not have enough mobility, but the permanent presence at any point in the ocean will be even higher than that of an aircraft carrier group. And the higher the degree of automation, the more efficient the use will be. Undoubtedly, writing about such developments at the design stage in the media is sabotage ...

[123456789]

- Rebbe, my chickens are dying. What to do?
- Throw them grain in a circle, having previously drawn it.
The Jew drew a circle, began to throw grain at him, but the hens still died. Then he again came to the Rebbe:
- What to do?
- Draw a square and throw the grain into a square. The Jew drew a square, began to throw grain at him, but the hens still died.
- What to do, rabbi?
- Draw a triangle and drop the grain into the triangle.
A Jew drew a triangle and began tossing grain there. Hens all died.
“Rebbe, all the chickens are dead.”
- It's a pity, I still had so many ideas ...

[Pavel57]

Quote: Piramidon

Roughly speaking, several "barges" docked in a row.

and in a row, and in breadth.

[Old26]

Quote: faiver

looks more like a big money laundering

Not just for big money laundering. It's just gigantic. And wend only need to ask a few questions and try to answer them.

Quote: III

A very promising idea, it's a pity that its presence was published in the media, you need to keep quiet about this.

Most promising RAVEdid you want to say?
Well, well, let's consider your most promising idea, which is called "on the fingers". so
1. For which aircraft this floating airfield is going to be made.
If for helicopters, then why? Isn't it easier to build such "heliports" on land?
2. What will be the configuration of this heliport. An ordinary (classic) pontoon in appearance, or something similar from a distance to the now-lowered North Pole platform, which is built so that it cannot be squeezed by ice
If this is a "classic" pontoon or several interconnected (as an option - a catamaran), then how to achieve the rigidity of the structure in ice conditions, in rough conditions (bad weather). How and with what engines to equip this heliport? Finally, the most important question: how many such heliports will be needed, taking into account the range of helicopters based on them. By the way, it's not superfluous to take into account the dimensions of such helicopters and not only ours.
3. If this floating airfield is to be made for aircraft, then for which ones?
For light ones that carry 5 tons of cargo? Is it worth the candle? The radius in comparison with the same IL-76 is smaller, the transported cargo is several times smaller.
4. Okay. We decided on the type of aircraft. Let there be IL-76 and its foreign counterparts
Further. At this floating airfield, it will be necessary to have not only a runway 2,5 km long, but the width should also be appropriate. About 40-50 meters. Further. In addition to the runway, taxiing is required. Even if not as wide as the runway, but still 20 meters wide, no less. You will need a "resting place" for the aircraft, since it is hardly possible to build such a lift that will lower and raise 50-70 ton aircraft from the hangar. And the height of the hangar itself must be at least 15 meters. Now let's try to determine the dimensions of such one "segment".

Width, taking into account the width of the runway and taxiing and the distance between them, not less than 100-140 meters. Let the length of such a pontoon be, say, 200 meters. Height, if you have hangars - at least 20 meters. Is the industry capable of producing such a pontoon in a single block, 200 meters long, 140 meters wide and 20 meters high ???? I doubt it very much. And the main thing is where to do such a "monster".
Further, well, glad. They built such a monoblock pontoon. Now, for takeoff and landing, at least 12 pontoons must be connected in a line. How to connect? Cable system or rigid hitch. Will it make itself felt. so-called "whip effect"? Further. than "fill" these pontoons. Takeoff and landing equipment is understandable. Further. Devices for parrying longitudinal and lateral heaving. It is necessary to install engine modules with a sickly engine power, because all this structure must be somehow controlled. I am not even talking about the amount of fuel that must be stored. As well as about the maximum number of aircraft that this "monster" is able to accept and store. Again the question. And how many such floating aerodromes do you need? And the main issue is the rigidity of the structure during waves.

And you, dear III, call this a promising idea?

[abrakadabre]

And the main issue is the rigidity of the structure during waves.

Moreover, the rigidity of each pontoon separately, and connected into an object, as a whole. And not only during excitement, but also when exposed to ice. And even in case of partial flooding of some of the pontoons in an emergency.
Where have I seen this? ... Ah! ... Jules-Verne, the novel about the floating Standard Island - the novel "The Floating Island", 1895.

[srha]

Photo: Wikimedia Commons "Evergreen Point Pontoon Bridge in Seattle, USA, 2350 meters long (pontoon section of the bridge), completed in 2016. SR 520 State Road runs across Lake Washington, a six-lane bridge, from Seattle to its eastern suburbs. The bridge is supported by 77 concrete pontoons ... 110 mx 23 mx 8,5 m, weight - 10000 tons ... "

So the main technical issues have long been resolved.

And, yes, it is clear that such an airfield is more expensive than a ground one (by an order of magnitude) - which means there is still a question of price and necessity.