Military Review

Losses of Russia / USSR in the war against fascism: language of numbers

72

First of all, I would like to note that in this article we will talk about the USSR as the Russia of those years. It is well known that from the West the myth is persistently imposed on us that Russia is supposedly a very young thirty-year-old state, which has begun its zero countdown. stories since the 1990s. But this is fundamentally not true.


The first portion "Aesopian language of loss: the pan-European empire VS Russia" of our review, we found out that Europe of those years longed for superiority and reprisals over the barbarians in the East. That is why practically all the countries of this continent easily and resignedly accepted Hitler's ideas and united against a common enemy - Russia.

It was the joint war (like the invasion of the territory of the USSR / Russia) that became the unifying action for Europe, which turned it into a single European Empire or the European Union of 1941. And all the inhabitants of Europe at that time, the leaders of the fascist gang, were instantly endowed with their European values ​​in the form of laurels of exclusivity with the right to destroy subhuman Slavs.

Let's say right away that Russia defeated fascism on May 9, 1945. And then she stopped this pan-European bacchanalia with the promotion of European values ​​(like the racial superiority of the Euro-race) to the East.

Russia then stopped the spread of fascism across the planet. But at what cost?

For five long years, our fathers and grandfathers, day and night, fought with brutal Europeans. Every inch of our native land liberated from the Nazi hordes is watered with the blood of the Red Army. How many were killed? How many of them are still missing, 75 years after the Great Victory?

In this part of the review, we will begin to study various versions of the losses of the USSR / Russia in the war against fascism.

Let us recall, as already mentioned in the first part, that we will analyze the losses in the period from June 22, 1941 until the end of hostilities in Europe. In the losses of the USSR / Russia, let us include the deaths of Red Army soldiers and civilian Soviet citizens in the above time interval. In addition, we deliberately remove from the calculations the period of the Soviet-Finnish war and the "Liberation campaign" of the Red Army.

Demographic statistics


First, let's remember how many of us were then? What was our demographic potential just before the war?

On the eve of the Great Patriotic War, the population of the USSR / Russia was over 170 million. This is according to official figures.

But to be even more precise, according to the published preliminary results of the 1939 All-Union Population Census of the USSR, as of January 17, 1939, 170,6 million people lived in our country (170).

According to the published According to Federal State Statistics Service (2020), at the beginning of 1939, almost 191 million people (190) lived in the USSR, and in January 678, even a little more - already 000 people.

The difference in figures from different sources is also due to the fact that the leadership of Rosstat not so long ago removed the "Secret" stamp from the population data stored in the Central State Archive of the National Economy (TSGANKH) of the USSR, now the Russian State Archive of Economics (RGAE). And the statistics have been updated.

It turns out that at that time the USSR / Russia was one of the largest demographically countries (taken separately) on the entire European continent. Without us (Russia / USSR) in Europe at that time, as indicated by some sources, about 400 million people.

Each of the countries on the eve of the war in the demographic plane had its own characteristics. In the USSR / Russia, according to experts, a relatively high mortality rate and life expectancy below the European one were recorded. This significantly distinguished us from our opponents.

But a characteristic feature of the USSR / Russia was a high birth rate. Population growth in those years was estimated at 2%. This is evidenced by the statistics of 1938-1939.

There was another unique feature of our demography of those years: the population of the country was then very young. In the percentage of children under 15 years old, in those years, according to the State Statistics Committee, there were 35% (at the beginning of 1939) and 36% (at the beginning of 1940).

By the way, the total fertility rate in the USSR, according to Rosstat, in 1939 was recorded as 4,9.

For comparison, the same indicator (total fertility rate) in the same year (1939) in other countries was much lower:

UK - 1,8
Hungary - 2,5
Italy - 3,1
Finland - 2,6
France - 2,2
Czechoslovakia - 2,3
Japan - 3,8.

That is why the USSR / Russia was probably able to restore demography after the war so quickly. Scientists point out, among other things, precisely this circumstance, as the predominant one (a high proportion of children and adolescents before the war). When analyzing the various reasons for our "demographic miracle". Indeed, to equalize the number of inhabitants (before the pre-war), the country took only one post-war decade.

Declassified statistical materials officially confirm that after the war, the population of the USSR / Russia reached the level of mid-1941 by 1956.

The USSR was not a city power. On the eve of the war, our country was mostly rural and rural. At the beginning of 1939, only 32% from all residents of the USSR / Russia. And, according to the statistical indicators of Rosstat, at the beginning of 1940 there were already a little more citizens in the country - 33%. But all the same it was incomparably small with similar indicators of the enemy.

In this regard, the Germans and the Allies on the eve of the war had a completely different ratio between the urban and rural population. For example, take a look at the percentage of urban residents in the following countries:

UK - 80%,
Germany - 70%,
USA - 60%,
France - 50%,
Japan - 32%.

On the eve of the war, Western Ukraine and Belarus, the Baltic States, Bukovina and Bessarabia entered the USSR. Accordingly, the population of the USSR increased significantly. We are talking about 20-22,5 million people, who were added in 1939.

According to the Central Statistical Office of the USSR, as of 01.01.1941 198 people lived in the country. Of these, 555 million inhabitants (000%) were in the RSFSR.

Population of foreign countries in 1938-1940 (million people)

USSR -170,6 (196,7)
UK - 51,1
Germany - 77,4
Italy - 42,4
USA - 132,1
Finland - 3,8
France - 40,1
Japan - 71,9

Thus, in 1938–1939, 77,4 million people lived in Germany. But on the eve of the invasion of the USSR in 1940, the Reich increased its own population to 90 million. Some experts also propose to include in the demographic composition of the Reich and the inhabitants of the conquered and puppet countries. In this case, the demographic potential that the Reich possessed during this period rises to 297 million people.

In the first year of the war (December 1941), the Union lost almost 7% of its territory. Previously, 74,5 million Soviet citizens lived on these lands.

The figures indicate that the Reich had a higher demographic resource. Although Hitler assured that, on the contrary, the advantage was on the side of the Soviets.

Losses of Russia / USSR in the war against fascism: language of numbers

During the Great Patriotic War (for the entire period of hostilities), 34,5 million men were registered in the Red Army. If we compare this figure with the entire male population, for example, in 1941, then this is equivalent to the fact that almost 70% of men aged 15 to 49 years old put on a uniform and went to the front.

Over the entire war, half a million Soviet women served in the army.

The Jubilee statistical collection dedicated to the 75th anniversary of Victory (p. 247) specifies:

“In the USSR, during the war years, 29 574,9 thousand people were mobilized, and in total, together with the personnel who were in military service by June 22, 1941, 34 476,7 thousand people.

On average, about 600 thousand people were sent to the front every month. "

In Germany, the percentage of those called up to the front was higher than in the USSR.

However, if the Germans used prisoners of war and workers from European countries to compensate for the lack of workers, then in the USSR the picture was different. Women, old people and even children were forced to stand at the machines and work tirelessly. And the working day was multiplied. This has become the second means of dealing with labor shortages.

Underreporting of losses?


The most difficult thing was to reveal the numbers of direct irrecoverable losses of the Red Army. This has not been said for many years.

Initially, the figure was announced at 10 million. They say that in a personal conversation she was named by Marshal of the Soviet Union, twice Hero of the Soviet Union, member of the CPSU Central Committee Ivan Stepanovich Konev.

In 1949, the famous defector who fled to Germany, colonel of the Soviet military administration apparatus, Kirill Dmitrievich Kalinov, published in Germany the book "Soviet Marshals Have a Word", in which, based on documents from the General Staff, he cited data on the irrecoverable losses of the Red Army in World War II. He cited a total of 13,6 million. According to him, 8,5 million were killed on the battlefield and are missing. 2,5 million have died from their wounds. And 2,6 million died in captivity.

Soviet demographer Professor Boris Tsezarevich Urlanis in his book History of War Loss: Wars and the Population of Europe. Human losses of the armed forces of European countries in the wars of the 1960th – 1994th centuries. " (10, XNUMX), or rather, in its French version indicated the figure of XNUMX million people.

Military historian, professor Grigory Fedotovich Krivosheev in his book “Russia and the USSR in the wars of the XX century. Losses of the Armed Forces. Statistical research ”(1993, 2001) noted the scale of losses of the USSR in the range of 8,7 million people. This indicator has long been used in many reference sources.

True, the author emphasizes that some of the data were not included in their total loss figure. We are talking about half a million conscripts who were drafted into the Red Army, but did not manage to be enrolled in the lists of specific units and formations, as they were captured by the enemy on the way. In addition, the militias of Moscow, Leningrad, Kiev and other large cities were also not included in the official losses in this publication. Despite the fact that almost all of these members of the militia were killed.

As you can see, scientists usually choose their own criteria for calculating losses. That is why the numbers of eminent luminaries of historical and demographic science sometimes differ so much.

That is, one of the problems was the underestimation of the scale of human losses. Due to the limited sample and other features of the calculation and methods used by specialists.

Overestimation of losses?


But there is another, opposite problem - the overestimation of real figures.

Today, fairly complete lists of irrecoverable losses of the Red Army soldiers in the Great Patriotic War have been compiled. They included 13,7 million people. At the same time, some activists and opposition publications indicate that some of the recordings may be repeated. How much - no one knows. But there is a figure on the Internet that the losses are overestimated by 12-15%.

On June 22, 1999, Nezavisimaya Gazeta published an article “Dead Souls of the Great Patriotic War” that caused a lot of noise. Historical and archival search center "Destiny" of the association "War Memorials" out of 4800 dead (according to TsAMO) at a specific site of the battles rechecked (20%) the first thousand names that were listed as dead on the bridgehead. The article says that it turned out that one in ten got on this list by mistake.

“Duplication of loss accounting is typical in this mess. Mistakes were made even at the level of company and regimental chanceries, of course, without any intent. This happened, as a rule, due to the transience of battles, frequent change of positions, rapid transition of the territory of one to another, but above all as a result of the formal attitude to the soldier's medallion ...

The mechanism for creating false statistics is as follows: after the battle, the battalion commander writes a report to his higher authorities that the battalion has retreated, several of the dead Red Army soldiers remained in the occupied territory. The report is recorded in the personal loss accounting department and the letter bureau of the Main Directorate for the formation and manning of the Red Army. The dead were counted.

In a day - a counteroffensive. After the battle, a funeral team from another battalion of another division collects soldiers' medallions, documents, including those of those killed earlier. A report is being written. The subordinates of the battalion commander were again counted as the victims of another unit.

If there was no time left for burial, which was often dictated by the frontline situation, the unfortunates were subsequently counted for the third time, for example, according to the data of the surviving postage.

Thus, one and the same Red Army soldier can be counted three times in the TsAMO “killed”.

The article reports that it was established that due to double and even triple counting, the number of soldiers killed in the 43rd and 2nd Shock Armies in the battles investigated by the center was overestimated.

The main result of the entire study was the conclusion: after the large losses suffered on paper, the figure of irrecoverable combat losses of the Armed Forces of the USSR, which we have, can definitely be considered overestimated. How much? Nobody will answer this question now.

And if so, and the above number of losses refers to the stage of the war when it was impossible to guarantee the ideal registration of the dead, then some researchers immediately spoke in favor of making a discount on this and deliberately underestimating all available data. Those who recognize the account as double and overstated, demand to deduct from the losses at least half a million people. They proceed from the logic that if the overestimation was supposedly by 5-7%, then 0,2-0,4 million people must be subtracted.


Prisoners


American Sovietologist (of Russian origin, son of the leader of the Mensheviks) Alexander Dallin in his book “The occupied territories of the USSR under the control of the Nazis. The occupation policy of the Third Reich 1941-1945 (1957, 1981, translated into Russian 2019), based on German archival information, indicates that 5,7 million Soviet prisoners of war are registered in German registers. Of which, 3,8 million people (63%) died while in captivity.

According to the calculations of Russian historians, the numbers are different. Domestic experts recorded the number of prisoners at 4,6 million, of which 2,9 million (63%) were destroyed in captivity.

Why are the numbers of Soviet prisoners different in German and Russian sources?

This question is answered by Pavel Markovich Polyan (Nerler), professor at the Higher School of Economics, in his book Victims of Two Dictatorships: Life, Labor, Humiliation and Death of Soviet POWs and Ostarbeiters in a Foreign Land and Homeland (1996, 2002).

He believes that the figures differ primarily because domestic standards included only military prisoners (prisoners of war) in the category of prisoners. Civilians were excluded from the count. For example, railway workers (and the Germans counted everyone: both military and civilian).

Also, the statistics of prisoners did not include those seriously wounded fighters who did not have time to be taken from the battlefield, whose territory as a result of the battle remained with the enemy. Our fighters later died of their wounds there, or were shot. Therefore, they were not counted as prisoners. There were only about half a million of them (470-000).

In the first year of the war, more than half of the total number of prisoners for the entire period of hostilities were captured. They had not yet begun to be massively used at work for the Reich. And they kept them in terrible conditions right in the open air. Cold and hunger reigned in the camps. The prisoners were mistreated. It is not surprising that diseases multiplied, and there was no medicine. The sick and infirm were not treated, but shot. They also killed all the commissars, Jews and unreliable.

The camps were an open area surrounded by barbed wire. The approaches to them were mined. There were no buildings, even of a light type, on the territory of the camps. The prisoners were placed directly on the ground. Many of them, having lost the ability to move, lay unconscious in the mud. The prisoners were forbidden to make fires, collect brushwood for bedding. For the slightest attempt to violate this regime, the Nazis shot Soviet people.

Source: Collection of the Extraordinary State Commission for the Establishment and Investigation of the Atrocities of the German-Fascist invaders and their accomplices (1946). Page 184

Some researchers report the alleged extraordinary kindness of the Nazis at the beginning of the war. According to this version, the Germans captured so many Soviet prisoners in the first year of the war that they literally could not cope with them. Then the invaders made a decision - to dismiss some of the prisoners to their homes. It was in the occupied territories of Western Ukraine and Belarus. Here the natives of these same territories were released. Purely for propaganda purposes. And for political reasons. But such actions were one-off. And in the future they did not repeat themselves.

The main evidence is the brutal attitude towards prisoners of war. So, in the collection of the Extraordinary State Commission for the establishment and investigation of the atrocities of the German fascist invaders and their accomplices (1946) it is reported, for example (p. 16), the following:

“Striving for the mass extermination of Soviet prisoners of war, the German military authorities condemn the Red Army soldiers to extinction from hunger, typhus and dysentery. Prisoners of war are not provided with medical assistance.

In Vyazma there was a hospital for prisoners of war in an unheated stone barn. There was no treatment or care for the sick. From 20 to 30 people died every day. Patients were given half a pot of soup a day without bread.

According to the doctor E.A. Mikheev, 247 people died of exhaustion and illness in this hospital one day.

In addition, German soldiers chose sick Red Army prisoners as a target for shooting as they passed through the courtyard of the hospital.

Surgeon V.N. Razdershin, together with a group of doctors, had to spend one night in a prisoner of war camp. Doctors say that throughout the night, from different parts of the camp, the cries of the tortured were heard: “save”, “help”, “why are you beating”, “oh, I'm dying”.

In the afternoon, during the distribution of food, the prisoners of war crowded around the kitchen. To put things in order, the German guard took a grenade from his belt and threw it into the crowd. Several people were killed and many were injured. "

And this is just one example of the many recorded much more harsh evidence of the bullying of the Nazis over Soviet prisoners of war ...

According to the orders of the Wehrmacht:

“The prisoners of camps for the Russians should therefore be divided within the camp on the following lines:

1) Civilians.

2) Soldiers (including those who are clearly dressed in civilian clothes).

3) Politically harmful elements from among persons of categories 1 and 2 ...

4) Persons of categories 1 and 2, worthy of trust, and therefore suitable for use in the restoration of the occupied areas.

5) National groups among prisoners of war and civilians. "

Quoted from the Collection of Reports of the Extraordinary State Commission on the Atrocities of the German Fascist Invaders (1946) (pp. 171–172).

German journalist and historian Jürgen Thorwald (pseudonym of Heinz Bongartz) based on CIA classified materials compiled the book "Illusion: Soviet Soldiers in Hitler's Armies" (1975). In it, he, in particular, indicates that about one million Soviet prisoners of war were transferred to the auxiliary units of the Wehrmacht.

These local auxiliary forces of the German army were formed from prisoners, who were divided into:

- volunteers (hivi),

- order service (odi),

- front-line auxiliary parts (noise),

- police and defense teams (gem).

According to some historians, there were up to 1943 such khivis at the beginning of 400, some in the range of 000–60, and in the eastern battalions - 000.

It is known that some of the prisoners of war and residents in the occupied territories really began to voluntarily cooperate with the Germans.

It is reported that the 14th SS Volunteer Infantry Division "Galicia" (1st Ukrainian) was formed entirely from Ukrainian volunteers, who signed up at once 82 thousand, although there were only 13 thousand vacancies. The Germans then took everyone from Ukraine and formed additional punitive detachments from them.

Even more Latvians wanted to voluntarily help Hitler than Ukrainians: over one hundred thousand of them fought on the side of the Wehrmacht against Russia. And another 36 thousand Lithuanians and 10 thousand Estonians fought under the flags of Hitler, mainly in SS units.

Several million inhabitants were driven away for forced labor from the occupied territories. Immediately after the war, the Extraordinary State Commission indicated that there were 4 million 259 thousand Soviet citizens. However, in subsequent years, this figure was refined and increased by more than a million people. It is indicated that there were 5 million 450 thousand Soviet citizens driven to Germany for work, of which almost a million died (from 850 to 000).

And further.

"As befits a German, destroy all living things"


When today in the West and in liberal circles, attempts are being made to rewrite history and revise the unequivocally condemning attitude towards fascism, I would like to remind these enthusiasts that the Nazis behaved one on one like the current thugs-terrorists.

Take a look at a document that is terrifying for its boundless cruelty and hatred of Russians and Russia. But he was in the pocket of every Wehrmacht soldier who set foot on Russian soil.

It is documented in the aforementioned collection of the Emergency State Commission (p. 7) that in the pockets of the German soldiers there were instructions on how to act in any situation. It was a "Memo to a German Soldier", setting out an openly bloody program of the Nazis, which practically did not differ from terrorist organizations banned today:

“Remember and do:

1) ... There are no nerves, heart, pity - you are made of German iron. After the war, you will find a new soul, a clear heart - for your children, for your wife, for great Germany, but now act decisively, without hesitation ...

2) ... You have no heart and nerves, they are not needed in a war. Destroy pity and compassion in yourself kill every russian, do not stop if you are in front of an old man or woman, girl or boy. Kill, by this you will save yourself from death, secure the future of your family and become famous forever.

3) Not a single world power can withstand the German pressure. We'll bring the whole world to its knees.

German is the absolute master of the world... You will decide the fate of England, Russia, America.

You are a German; as befits a German, destroy all living things, resisting on your way, always think about the sublime - about the Fuhrer, and you will win. Neither a bullet nor a bayonet will take you.

Tomorrow the whole world will be on its knees before you ".

The world did not kneel before fascism then.

Russia stopped the Nazi plague. But at the cost of huge human losses - 26 million and 600 thousand lives of the inhabitants of our country, the USSR / Russia.

We found this figure in publication of "The Great Patriotic War. Jubilee Statistical Collection ”(2020). The number of losses (26,6 million people) includes:

- killed in action,

- servicemen and partisans who died from wounds and diseases,

- those who died of hunger,

- civilians killed during bombings, artillery attacks and punitive actions,

- shot and tortured in concentration camps,

- as well as people who did not return to the country, deported to hard labor in Germany and other countries.

Our irrevocable


In total, the irrecoverable losses of Soviet / Russian servicemen in the Great Patriotic War, according to official data updated for 2020, 11 thousand people were registered.

The number of irrecoverable losses in 1941 included the losses of the border and internal troops of the NKVD (159,1 thousand people) and conscripts captured by the enemy, called up for mobilization, but not included in the list of troops (500 thousand people).

All servicemen whose fate was unknown, as well as those who were surrounded, were referred to as missing. Throughout the war, their number was 5 thousand people.

Their fate was determined only after the war, when 1 thousand people returned from captivity and 836 thousand people who were previously listed as missing were recruited into the liberated territory.

In total, 2 775,7 thousand people turned out to be alive from the number of missing.


Source: rosstat.gov.ru

In the next article from this series, we will consider various materials about the losses among the civilian population of the USSR, the version about the total total losses of our country in the Great Patriotic War, as well as about the losses of the Wehrmacht.

To be continued ...
Author:
Articles from this series:
Aesop's Language of Loss: the Pan-European Empire VS Russia
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  1. Klausp
    Klausp 20 January 2021 18: 24
    +1
    Dear author, you somehow obsessively in your materials quietly take away from the USSR not only the Victory in the Second World War, but also any historical past, pulling an owl onto the globe with your play on words and formulations. After all, even Russia, having become part of the USSR, existed in the format of the RSFSR. Yes, and in those years there was no other people, except for the Soviet, and no other army, except the Red Army (later the SA)! Moreover, the USSR was called Russia there, outside the Union: either enemies or whites. Author, what do you belong to?
    1. Paul
      Paul 20 January 2021 18: 46
      0
      The author has never shown that he has a positive attitude towards enemies. And Russia was called Russia by the Soviet people. Just remember Stalin's toast "to the Russian people!" You can read the poets of that time - it is somehow easier for them to rhyme Russia than the USSR.
      1. Klausp
        Klausp 20 January 2021 19: 28
        +2
        Quote: Paul
        it is somehow easier for them to rhyme Russia than the USSR.

        Of course, the rhyme didn't go straight!
        "I AM
        I get
        from wide legs
        duplicate
        priceless cargo.
        Read,
        envy,
        I am -
        citizen
        Soviet Union!"
        1. Paul
          Paul 20 January 2021 19: 33
          0
          At the expense of poets, my argument is really unconvincing. There can be a lot of mutual examples. But it was about the time of the Second World War. And Vladimir Vladimirovich did his best not to live to see her. On the other hand, it was during the Second World War that Ehrenburg wrote about the Motherland, calling it Rus.
    2. Bar1
      Bar1 20 January 2021 18: 57
      +7
      what the hell? There was no such country as the USSR / Russia, but there was a country of the USSR. I would have written the USSR / RI.
      1. Blacksmith 55
        Blacksmith 55 20 January 2021 21: 30
        +3
        The constant repetition of the USSR - RUSSIA is cutting the ears.
        He fought the USSR, period.
        Then the question, where did the author get the figure, 5 years of war.
        The Second World War lasted less than 4 years.
        1. Sergey79
          Sergey79 21 January 2021 10: 46
          +3
          What are you arguing about? Why do you "bite" the author? Everything is correct. Many young people think that the USSR has nothing to do with Russia. First of all, they should be given to read such articles! Show films "Concentration Camps. Road to Hell", etc .... Thanks to the author. It was correctly noted that our soldiers did not return from captivity 3 million. I would add that with an equal number of Germans, 600 thousand did not return. I look forward to continuing. Thanks again.
          1. Bar1
            Bar1 21 January 2021 11: 29
            +3
            Quote: Sergey79
            Many young people think that the USSR has nothing to do with Russia.


            Don't talk nonsense. There are no people who would think that Russia and the USSR are different countries. But the USSR is not Russia and it is not correct to write how it is across the line.
            1. Sergey79
              Sergey79 21 January 2021 11: 42
              +1
              I am a teacher of a higher school (university). I constantly communicate with young people. Believe me, I know what I'm saying. You should take off your rose-colored glasses.
      2. certero
        certero 21 January 2021 10: 27
        +6
        Quote: Bar1
        There was no such country as the USSR / Russia,

        only in the west was the Union of Soviet Russia called for a very long time, and all those who arrived were Russians.
      3. Krasnoyarsk
        Krasnoyarsk 21 January 2021 10: 57
        -4
        Quote: Bar1
        what the hell? There was no such country as the USSR / Russia, but there was a country of the USSR. I would have written the USSR / RI.

        Probably the author liked the Ukrainian newspeak - Ukraine-Rus. Or Russia-Ukraine, I don't remember
    3. vlad.baryatinsky
      vlad.baryatinsky 20 January 2021 21: 47
      +1
      Hello !
      I spoke, I speak and I will speak!
      My Motherland, this Germany, has cost too much!
      And twice, it should have been destroyed!
      These Germans were treated too kindly.
      Be My Will, destroyed this vile tribe on the Root !!!
      Eternal Memory and the Kingdom of Heaven, to All Fallen Citizens of the USSR!
      1. vlad106
        vlad106 24 January 2021 12: 28
        +1
        Quote: vlad.baryatinsky
        These Germans were treated too kindly.
        Be My Will, destroyed this vile tribe on the Root !!!

        The vile tribe that is responsible for almost all the troubles is Anglo-Saxony. provocateurs, instigators, invaders, executioners ...
    4. Alexander Kopychev
      Alexander Kopychev 21 January 2021 12: 54
      +2
      Dear author, you somehow obsessively in your materials quietly take away from the USSR not only the Victory in the Second World War, but also any historical past, pulling an owl onto the globe with your play on words and formulations.

      The author, speaking about Russia, forgot to mention the famous toast:
      "I drink, first of all, to the health of the Russian people because they are the most outstanding nation of all the nations that make up the Soviet Union."
      It is in this connection that I perceive Russia.
  2. lwxx
    lwxx 20 January 2021 18: 24
    +5
    Interestingly, and to what losses are the killed traitor from the former servicemen of the Red Army? Are they considered dead Soviet or dead occupants? No, morally everything is clear here, but purely mathematically, where does this belong?
    1. antivirus
      antivirus 20 January 2021 19: 08
      -1
      I've been writing for several years - they are counted among our losses. but they fought against us. this "modulo" must be considered the effectiveness of the Red Army. our demographic (a citizen of the USSR - did not always receive a passport? as in the Crimea) losses and our achievements (the Red Army killed enemies) in the war.
    2. Aviator_
      Aviator_ 20 January 2021 20: 12
      +1
      purely mathematically, where does this belong?

      Purely statistically, they are included in our losses, since the Germans counted only their losses, the losses of the Hungarians with the Romanians, Italians, Slovaks and Finns did not add to their losses. For more details see "Russia and the USSR in the wars of the twentieth century", ed. G.F. Krivosheeva, Moscow, "Olma-Press", 2001
      1. Lannan Shi
        Lannan Shi 20 January 2021 21: 30
        +5
        Quote: Aviator_
        since the Germans only counted their losses,

        Not certainly in that way. Many, even from their own, the Germans also do not count. For example. Soviet engineering units are losses, from the beginning of the war to the end. But Todt, before the beginning of 1943, is "very civil" and, accordingly, does not spell losses. Although why a Soviet soldier who died under bombs when he was building fortifications in the rear should be written in loss, and exactly the same German is not necessary, it is difficult to understand. The same thing with the Imperial Labor Service. Those. they have weapons, they are involved in hostilities, but they do not suffer losses. For civilians. The losses of the imperial security service are not written either. But they also shot pretty well. And they, and them. In general, if, the Germans are very free to operate with the numbers of their losses. yes
        1. Aviator_
          Aviator_ 20 January 2021 22: 21
          +1
          In general, if, the Germans are very free to operate with the numbers of their losses. yes

          This is true. Moreover, the lists of losses are kept according to the lists of those withdrawn from the allowance, as in the book by Krivosheev, during the maximum German losses in the winter and spring of 1945 there were no such lists. I also heard a version that the Germans considered combat losses to be those who died within three days after being admitted to the hospital, those who died at 4 and further were not considered combat losses. Unfortunately, I don't remember the source of this version.
        2. Chack wessel
          Chack wessel 23 January 2021 10: 31
          0
          By the way, I'm also interested - for example, those girls from the "support services" who drowned in the "Gustlof" also went like losses among the civilian population?
    3. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 20 January 2021 20: 13
      -3
      Quote: lwxx
      Interestingly, and to what losses are the killed traitor from the former servicemen of the Red Army?

      Just don't count them as human.
  3. Fat
    Fat 20 January 2021 18: 26
    -7
    Thank you, Irina ... "The numbers rule!" But how I want to cut you short, My father marched along with his part ...
    I kept the defense, Mom don't grieve ... But now, I read, I remember ...
    1. Fat
      Fat 20 January 2021 19: 01
      -1
      In general, very few people understand the defense of Stalingrad, and they treat the storming of the city on top of ... There the people (trained) were killed immeasurably. Our country has not resisted a lot, but as a result, it has withdrawn some of the limitrophes from the war.
  4. BAI
    BAI 20 January 2021 18: 29
    +6
    Thus, one and the same Red Army soldier can be counted three times in the TsAMO “killed”.

    Considering things are bad. My father in the "Memory of the People" is listed both alive and killed, with an indication of the place of burial. So there - the missing person is lying.
    1. Fat
      Fat 20 January 2021 19: 11
      +3
      Sympathetic, BROTHER. My father was twice buried. Cured yes And nothing to say.
    2. Fat
      Fat 20 January 2021 19: 43
      0
      Did you manage to figure it out? Friend ... This is important.
    3. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 20 January 2021 20: 16
      +4
      Quote: BAI
      So there - the missing person is lying.

      And how many of them are nameless and not buried lies in the Rzhevsky and Svitsky bogs.
  5. tatra
    tatra 20 January 2021 18: 40
    +3
    What is the reason that the enemies of the Communists, after their seizure of Russia, who proved that they do not give a damn about all the subjects of the Russian Empire who died in the First World War, and all those who died in wars on the territory of the captured USSR, so selflessly, since their Perestroika, "suck" the number of those killed in the Great Patriotic War and are trying to exaggerate them, portray "philanthropy" for these victims of the Soviet people? First, they, together with the enemies of the communists in the West and in Europe, are trying to justify Hitler and the Europeans from the Hitlerite coalition who attacked the USSR. Secondly, their ideology after the seizure of Russia is not we good, but the communists and their supporters are bad, therefore, they are trying to create a myth "how these scoops and commies fought badly, ineffectively, the enemy was filled with corpses."
  6. t-12
    t-12 20 January 2021 18: 41
    +7
    On this topic, you either need to write a multivolume work, where, on the basis of extremely reliable sources, almost every victim is scrupulously calculated. Or write nothing at all. Our grandfathers fought, defeated the Nazis, and that's all.
    1. Crowe
      Crowe 20 January 2021 18: 57
      +9
      I agree .... Low bow to all those who fell in that terrible war and who gave us peace at the cost of their lives ... Eternal memory ... Eternal Glory.

      Eternal glory to the heroes!
      Eternal glory!
      Eternal glory!
      Eternal glory to the heroes!
      Glory to the heroes!
      Glory!!

      People!
      As long as the hearts are beating
      remember!
      What
      at the cost of
      happiness is won, -
      please remember!

      Sending his song on the flight
      remember!
      About those,
      who will never sing, -
      remember!

      Tell your children about them,
      so that
      remembered!
      Children children
      tell us about them,
      so too
      remembered!

      Carry your dream through the years
      and life
      fill up! ..
      But about those,
      who will never come again -
      conjure -
      remember!

      Robert Christmas.
      1. TANKISTONE
        TANKISTONE 22 January 2021 19: 38
        0
        The older I get, the harder it is to watch Soviet films about the war ...
        Ah war, what did you do, mean-spirited:
        Our yards have become quiet,
        Our boys raised their heads -
        They matured for the time being,
        On the doorstep barely loomed
        and they left, after the soldier - the soldier ...
        Good-bye, boys!
        Boys
        Try to go back.
        No, don't you hide, be tall
        Spare no bullets, no grenades
        And do not spare yourself, and yet
        Try to go back.

        Ah, the war, what are you, mean, did:
        instead of weddings - separation and smoke,
        Our girls dresses are white
        Give away their sisters.
        Boots - well, where do you get from them?
        Yes, green wings chase ...
        You spit on gossip girls.
        We will settle scores with them later.
        Let the chatter, that you do not believe in anything,
        That you go at random ...
        Goodbye girls!
        Girls,
        Try to go back.

        B.Sh. Okudzhava
    2. Fat
      Fat 20 January 2021 19: 31
      -7
      Hello dear Gridasov!
      1. Fat
        Fat 20 January 2021 22: 04
        -2
        I was wrong not to you but to the Tatra ...
  7. Undecim
    Undecim 20 January 2021 18: 45
    +9
    Oh, is this the autoress who in the last article shamelessly lied about 17 executed commanders?
    And now we count the losses of Russia, but we include in them the losses of civilian Soviet citizens.
    Maybe it's time to legally prohibit the exploitation of any low-quality propagandists in the memory of those tens of millions of SOVIET PEOPLE who paid with their lives for the USSR's Victory in the Great Patriotic War of the SOVIET PEOPLE against Nazi Germany?
    1. Paul
      Paul 20 January 2021 18: 50
      +6
      Do you think that the loss of civilians during the war should not be counted?
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 20 January 2021 18: 51
        +1
        Read my comment carefully. If you do not understand, do not strain, this is not yours.
        1. Paul
          Paul 20 January 2021 18: 59
          +4
          And now we count the losses of Russia, but we include in them the losses of civilian Soviet citizens.

          Omitting your causticity, I would only like to note that it is precisely the highlighted passage that is incomprehensible. You simply do not agree with the calculation of the number of -17 officers and therefore do not consider it correct to consider the loss of civilians. I proceed from the fact that the stated thought should be clear otherwise, when you yourself cannot / do not want to give explanations, then it is unjustified to put your conclusions into circulation. If you want to convey something useful, find the strength to explain. Otherwise, it is just disrespect for the opponent.
          1. Undecim
            Undecim 20 January 2021 19: 02
            0
            If my idea is not clear to you because in the previous article the author is openly lying, and in this one he is manipulating the concepts of the USSR and Russia, then what other explanations should I give you?
            1. Paul
              Paul 20 January 2021 19: 08
              +3
              I agree. You don't owe me.
    2. Fat
      Fat 20 January 2021 21: 56
      0
      hi Victor! The topic is bad. I understand that it is poorly taken. I’m from the first post-war generation. It was not my grandfather, but my dad who "spoke" ... They respected the enemy and beat them as best they could. My father worked with prisoners of war in practice after being wounded. Most of them are crippled by propaganda, they are Germans ... and their allies (Romanians) are purely peasants, disfigured by propaganda. They loved each other very much ...
      I will not throw obscene things towards Irina. Attempt is not torture (say Lavrenty) yes
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 20 January 2021 22: 19
        +2
        I’m from the first post-war generation. It's not my grandfather, but my dad "spoke"
        So I'm not young, and my father also wore German fragments all his life, they didn't cut off my leg, because there was nothing.
        Uncle missing near Brest ... Grandfather was wounded and shell-shocked three times. In our former homeland, the USSR, it is unlikely that you will find a family through which that war did not pass. And now memory has become a bargaining chip in propaganda exercises. Well, and what to throw at these propagandists - flowers?
        As for me, it's better with a grenade.
        1. Fat
          Fat 20 January 2021 22: 32
          0
          Yeah, a grenade. The holy hand grenade of Antioch will do just fine! I can't resist ... laughing
    3. Fat
      Fat 20 January 2021 22: 11
      0
      If you think about it, then you are more than right. We read, we save up the arguments. Nafik, I already have one deferred duel recourse "on the little things"
    4. Alexander Kopychev
      Alexander Kopychev 21 January 2021 13: 10
      +1
      Maybe it's time to legally prohibit the exploitation of any low-quality propagandists in the memory of those tens of millions of SOVIET PEOPLE who paid with their lives for the USSR's Victory in the Great Patriotic War of the SOVIET PEOPLE against Nazi Germany?

      This is already spelled out in the new Constitution.
    5. Seal
      Seal 28 January 2021 09: 11
      0
      Quote: Undecim
      Maybe it's time to legally prohibit the exploitation of any low-quality propagandists in the memory of those tens of millions of SOVIET PEOPLE who paid with their lives for the USSR's Victory in the Great Patriotic War of the SOVIET PEOPLE against Nazi Germany?

      For example, right?

      So, they say about "more than 600 thousand called up" and about "more than 300 thousand who laid down their heads in the name of Victory."
      But we are looking at the official website of our MO.

      Moreover, 83,7 thousand are not only those killed in battles with the Nazis.
      83,7 thousand is the total number of persons of Armenian nationality who did not return from the war, both in the Armenian SSR and in general in the territories, regions and other union republics of the USSR.
      Including in the figure 83,7 thousand there are those persons of Armenian nationality who went over to the side of the Nazis and died fighting against the Red Army.
      There are also those persons of Armenian nationality who were captured and remained in the West after the war, without making themselves felt. Well, maybe the relatives do know, but the statistics do not.
      There are those who simply deserted in the vastness of the USSR, changed their surname and even possibly changed their nationality.
      In total, out of 83,7 thousand died in battles, God forbid, 50 thousand. If we consider their account that every second of those called up died, then it turns out that in total about 100 thousand persons of Armenian nationality were called up for the war. And if we take from all those who did not return 83,7 thousand, then 167,4 thousand persons of Armenian nationality were called up.
  8. mister-red
    mister-red 20 January 2021 18: 47
    0
    Today, fairly complete lists of irrecoverable losses of the Red Army soldiers in the Great Patriotic War have been compiled. They included 13,7 million people. At the same time, some activists and opposition publications indicate that some of the recordings may be repeated.

    Almost everyone who was looking for in the lists of those killed (relatives or simply at the request of friends) mostly appeared twice, some even three times. I think the numbers are really overstated.
    1. Marine engineer
      Marine engineer 20 January 2021 21: 18
      +1
      "Almost everyone who I was looking for in the lists of the murdered (relatives or simply at the request of acquaintances) mostly appeared twice, .."
      I confirm. My grandfather is listed as missing twice.
  9. bistrov.
    bistrov. 20 January 2021 19: 14
    +1
    It's scary to read, but there are people now, even among us, who justify the Nazis. I'm talking about the so-called "schoolboy from Urengoy". But I’m not young, I’ve heard enough about the war both from former prisoners of war, eyewitnesses, and from my father, a front-line soldier who fought from the first day of the war.
  10. tasha
    tasha 20 January 2021 19: 33
    +1
    First of all, I would like to note that in this article we will talk about the USSR as the Russia of those years. USSR / Russia ...
    I cannot understand one thing. What is the purpose or the need for such juggling?
    1. Fat
      Fat 20 January 2021 19: 52
      -5
      So that some tovarischi are not forgotten in the polemic .... Who is the most boring thief.
  11. smaug78
    smaug78 20 January 2021 20: 12
    +2
    that Europe of those years yearned for superiority and reprisals over the barbarians in the East.
    hurray-nonsense in the style of Samsonov.
    Some experts also propose to include in the demographic composition of the Reich and the inhabitants of the conquered and puppet countries. In this case, the demographic potential that the Reich possessed during this period rises to 297 million people.
    this is the author and other specialists ala-Samsonov?
    Samsonov, Kharluzhny, Frolova ...
  12. faterdom
    faterdom 20 January 2021 21: 30
    -4
    That's right, these questions must be raised and not forgotten. And to poke the same Germans in the nose, and not to send the sweet-voiced boy Kolya to hear them.
    Apparently, the current generation of German politicians calling to speak with Russia from a position of strength simply does not understand: we have spared them! We did not destroy them as they wanted to do with us. But this is not their merit. This is our decision, wrong or not - history will show ...
    But she, after all, will suggest options for the next (God forbid!) Time. Rather, they are no longer options, but just one option - if they don't leave us alone from the west - it means from Lisbon to Vladivostok! And it will not be the European Union.
    But, one more guarantee of peace - we are for the first time superior to the West in some important military technologies. And from a position of strength, even the United States with an almost trillion dollar military budget does not risk talking to us. And the attempts of Germany are equal here to the attempts of Estonia or Denmark.
    1. Alexander Kopychev
      Alexander Kopychev 21 January 2021 13: 18
      -2
      Apparently, the current generation of German politicians who call to speak with Russia from a position of strength simply does not understand: we have spared them! We did not destroy them, as they wanted to do with us.

      True truth! The Russian people are generous! On this Generosity and trying to play all sorts of if from Urengoy.
  13. Marine engineer
    Marine engineer 20 January 2021 21: 32
    -2
    "...... How many of them are still missing, 75 years after the Great Victory?"

    The author should know if he has already taken up this topic, is listed as missing, this does not mean that the soldier (officer) is not listed in the lists of losses.
  14. north 2
    north 2 20 January 2021 23: 52
    +1
    as here in the article he writes ... Russia then stopped the spread of fascism across the planet and thereby stopped the bacchanalia to promote all-European values. But how valuable? ...
    First, it was not Russia that stopped it, but the Red Empire of Russia-USSR. By the way, this was not the first time that the imperial state made it possible. About how Russia in the state of the Empire did this for the first time, Pushkin explained this to the Slanderers of Russia ...
    ... that on the ruins of burning Moscow
    We did not recognize the brazen will
    The one under whom you trembled ...
    And under Hitler, as under Napoleon, the whole of Europe trembled and raised its paws, led by the same France. But the bacchanalia with the advancement of all-European values ​​to the east, Russia once already experienced and felt them on itself even then, when the one under whom the whole of Europe was trembling, in the Moscow Kremlin arranged stables for its army ... Hence the conclusion that the Imperial the state of Russia allowed it not only itself but the whole of Europe to save both from the barbarians and from the fascists. And how it will turn out, at least to save itself from the heirs of these misfortunes, Russia of today's only federal state, examples of this history are not yet known ...
    Secondly . When, seventy years after the end of the Second World War, everyone who writes about the losses calls different figures for the losses of the Red Empire - the USSR in the Second World War, it remains only to believe the archives of the USSR Ministry of Defense, if they are now declassified. In other cases, it will only be speculation and trying to draw attention to yourself with such articles. Someone else will try and doubt ... why the Russian Empires, in any of their states, did not recognize the impudent will of those under whom the whole of Europe trembled ... Maybe, like Europe, it was necessary to raise its paws ...
  15. MA3UTA
    MA3UTA 21 January 2021 03: 00
    +2
    The mechanism for creating false statistics is as follows: after the battle, the battalion commander writes a report to his higher authorities that the battalion has retreated, several of the dead Red Army soldiers remained in the occupied territory.




    The category "missing" is also included in the statistics of combat losses.

    was surprised by the result found when he studied the local battle of the first days of the war and found out the fate of the "missing"


    Missing. The fate of the fighters 134 gap
    https://topwar.ru/171010-propavshie-bez-vesti-sudby-bojcov-134-gap.html

    very indicative confirmation that this took place.
  16. Sugar Honeyovich
    Sugar Honeyovich 21 January 2021 04: 39
    +1
    So how many people were there in the USSR before the war? If “at the beginning of 1939, almost 191 million people (190) lived in the USSR”, and “on the eve of the war, Western Ukraine and Belarus, the Baltic States, Bukovina and Bessarabia were included in the USSR. Accordingly, the population of the USSR increased significantly. We are talking about 678-000 million people who were added in 20 ", how is it that" as of 22,5/1939/01.01.1941, 198 people lived in the country "?
    [quoteDuring the Great Patriotic War (for the entire period of hostilities), 34,5 million men were registered in the Red Army] [/ quote] - not men, but military personnel of both sexes.
    [quote Krivosheev .... noted the scale of Soviet losses in the range of 8,7 million people [/ quote] - losses of the armed forces of the USSR. So many servicemen died for all reasons.
    26 million and 600 thousand lives
    - Not certainly in that way. Of these 26,6 million, about 5-5,5 million are emigrants who left the USSR during the war. Mainly from the border peoples: the Balts, Poles, Finns, Ingrians, etc. As well as a few prisoners, Ostarbeiters who did not want to return home. And, of course, traitors. And also the population of Bialystok and Przemysl with the surrounding areas transferred to Poland. They were lost for the USSR, but not lost.
  17. The comment was deleted.
    1. Svidetel 45
      Svidetel 45 24 January 2021 18: 49
      0
      If people with such brains as yours, then you can let them in, there will be no big trouble from this.
  18. Igor Tikhomirov
    Igor Tikhomirov 21 January 2021 09: 48
    +1
    Modern Russia is just a part of the Russian kingdom, the Russian empire, the Soviet Union. This must be clearly understood. Representatives of other peoples living in the USSR fought against Hitler. There is no need to take away their merits by attributing everything to modern Russia.
    1. Navel
      Navel 21 January 2021 13: 48
      +2
      Quote: Igor Tikhomirov
      Modern Russia is just a part of the Russian kingdom, the Russian empire, the Soviet Union. This must be clearly understood. Representatives of other peoples living in the USSR fought against Hitler. There is no need to take away their merits by attributing everything to modern Russia.

      If we follow this logic, then "Hitler's Germany", as a party to the conflict, should be called "Hitler's Europe", taking into account all the Fuhrer's hangers-on.
      On the other hand, without the Germans as the nucleus of Hitlerism, there would not have been World War II, and without the Russians there would have been no Victory over evil.
      Hence the special responsibility of these peoples - winners and losers.
      Veterans of the Wehrmacht always clearly indicate to whom they lost - to the Russians, my grandfathers said that they fought with the Germans.
      Russians and Germans, as carriers of national ideas and views of the world, carried other peoples along with them. History has shown whose Truth is stronger.
  19. Siberian54
    Siberian54 21 January 2021 10: 38
    -1
    Quote: Paul
    17 officers

    Until 43, officers were absent in the Red Army as a hostile class
  20. for
    for 21 January 2021 10: 38
    +2
    Stop juggling numbers!
    Who cares how many of them died 1 or 1, they DIED they are not. For family 000, even a lot.
    1. DWG1905
      DWG1905 21 January 2021 14: 05
      +1
      Loss. My example. My grandfather is missing. The funeral was coming. It is in the database, but it is indicated according to the data of the secondary registration according to the military registration and enlistment office in 1947. from the part of the funeral came, he did not get into losses in the General Staff. If the military registration and enlistment office during the war did not take into account the funeral for some reason and there are no relatives, then the person is not taken into account at all. Therefore, double counting is compensated for by the topic who was not taken into account at all. For everyone interested in RGAKFD there is a huge number of photographs of our prisoners, probably negatives from the camps. If they are scanned and applied, face recognition technology may still, whose fate will be revealed. Still interesting are the photographs of a crowd of captured Poles from the Kosciuszko division; they did not particularly want to fight the Germans.
  21. Alexander Koshkin
    Alexander Koshkin 22 January 2021 01: 05
    +1
    Interesting! But what about 9,5 million buried in 47 thousand fraternal graves? Of which 6 million are nameless? How many more burials are unknown? And how many were not buried, especially in the hard times of 41-42? And how many went and almost completely died in the militia? And the partisans?
    1. Chack wessel
      Chack wessel 23 January 2021 08: 02
      -1
      The registration of the dead is not based on the list of those buried in the graves.
  22. Chack wessel
    Chack wessel 23 January 2021 06: 45
    -1
    Such a question - what will give everyone present here an accurate knowledge of the number of losses of both sides? What sacred knowledge will this figure add to the piggy bank of wisdom, and what new discoveries in historical science will this figure help to make?
  23. Vladimir
    Vladimir 23 January 2021 12: 32
    -2
    Dear author! You didn’t tell why we have such a spread in the estimates of losses, and why these are only estimates and not official data.
    Here's why. In the 50s, the military department, on someone's sabotage initiative, destroyed the primary registration of the rank and file in the local military registration and enlistment offices, with its own hands breaking the threads to millions of destinies. Even the most vile enemy in an open battle could not have inflicted stronger blows on the historical memory of our people than those inflicted on it by the existing and existing leadership, Igor Ivlev, one of the leaders of the search movement, writes. And the employees of the military enlistment offices told him about this. Those who were looking there for information on the combat path of their relatives (not officers) can confirm: they did not find anything.
    However, the authors of this blasphemous undertaking did not manage to hide the ends in the water. The list of communists and Komsomol members who fought in the war has been fully preserved, and this is more than 16 million of the 34,5 million participants in the Second World War. Now this record is kept in the metropolitan archive of the RGASPI.
    The total loss of both categories is known, 9 269 542, or 56,9% of those and others put under arms. In total, as we know, 34 476 700 people were called up. Multiply 34 by 476. With the indiscriminate nature of German bullets, mines and shells, 700 0,569 19 irrecoverable military losses are obtained. The remaining 617 million, with a little of the 242 million total, are civilian casualties. Sociologists consider even a representative sample of 7 people sufficient. And we have 26,7 million. True, among more than 3 million non-party people there were 16 million illiterate, which, possibly, increased mortality among them. But let's not guess. All these statistics were published in the USSR: in the "Encyclopedia of the Great Patriotic War 18-12", M. Soviet Encyclopedia 1941, in the "History of the Great Patriotic War of the Soviet Union 1945-1985", M. Voenizdat, 1941-1945, in "Strategic essay of the Great Patriotic War 1961-1965 ", M. Voenizdat, 1941.
    However, demographic data provide an even bleaker picture.
    The imbalance in the number of men and women of draft age from 1939 (excluding the territories annexed in 1940) to the beginning of 1946 increased by almost 23 million (22, according to the book "Demographic History of Russia 763-470", M. 1927, as well as according to the table 1959 of the 1996 All-Union Population Census). So where did the nearly 11 million gun-wielding men go if only 1939 million died?
    General Krivosheev, in her "removed the secrecy label," was generally counted to the point of absurdity, as if 35 percent of uncalled draft-age men gave their lives in our rear, and only 25 percent at the front. That is, the most deadly place during the Second World War was the Soviet rear. His small arms losses easily exceed human losses by 6 times! No one died in the boilers in 1941, since no reports were received from there. Etc. It is not for nothing that the largest military theorist and military historian, General of the Army Makhmut Gareev, refused to consider Krivosheev's statistics of military losses official.
    The Bank of Russia still holds 22 million unclaimed military certificates. Of course, there are also repetitions. And yet the order of military losses is more likely to confirm their number. They are also confirmed by the counts of voters, etc.
    1. Svidetel 45
      Svidetel 45 24 January 2021 19: 02
      0
      Defective logic, to consider the total losses in losses of only party members, one leader thought so the total losses in the losses of the officers, this does not work, there are many nuances.
      1. Vladimir
        Vladimir 25 January 2021 14: 26
        0
        In the absence of a stamp, they write in simple terms. If in 1953 the herostrata had not destroyed the registration of privates and sergeants in the military registration and enlistment offices, they would have counted losses on it. But it’s a no brainer that the losses among 18,5 million non-party people (including 12 million illiterates) can only be higher than among the 16 million vanguard ideological detachment . There were also such cases. Uzbek recruits warmed themselves with a bonfire made of trophy grenades with wooden handles. The Germans sent three hundred captured Kazakhs back with the postscript "Not a soldier for you - not our language!"
  24. vlad106
    vlad106 24 January 2021 13: 22
    +1
    "Losses of Russia / USSR in the war against fascism: ..."

    Quote: Sergey79
    Correctly noted that our soldiers did not return from captivity 3 million.


    Losses of Russia / USSR ...
    Through the fault of the Naglo-Saxon tribe, which hundreds of times staged wars and set against Russia / the USSR representatives of Europe, Asia (Swedes, Franks, Britons, Prussians and Austrians, Germans, Hungarians and even Finns, Bulgarians, Romanians, Italians, as well as Turks, Persians and dr)
    This vile tribe (the descendants of all these Marats, Robespierres, Cromwells) brought a revolution to our land that destroyed the country.
    In the 20th century alone, we lost several tens of millions of people, and industry and infrastructure were destroyed ...
    Gorbachev's leadership was withdrawing the army from Europe into an open field, the military was no longer paid salaries, many committed suicide. Although the military with personal weapons could simply eliminate those responsible for this lawlessness ...
    The results of the perestroika are still being felt, and if it were not for the Gorbachev and Yeltsin regime, the country would have remained intact, and the population, with a correct and reasonable policy, including a demographic one, could have increased to about 350 million or more.
    But the destruction of the country and industry led to a reduction in territory and population. It can even be said that the dark forces at that time even organized to some extent the genocide of the Russian people.
    For some reason, no one has yet been asked for these atrocities, and the perpetrators have not been held accountable.
  25. megavolt823
    megavolt823 27 January 2021 16: 58
    0
    Germany - (Deutschland) is somewhere around 68 million. After the Anschluss, unification with Austria. And then somehow the Japanese were led to a comparison, but it's not clear why. The USSR fought with the Japanese, but somehow earlier. The countries of western Europe waged war against the USSR and eastern European countries. Russia as an empire was earlier. Russia as a federation was after. In the word fascism, there is nothing terrible and abusive. Soviet propaganda made horror out of this word. Look at the definition. Hitler was spiritually masturbated to by western and most of eastern Europe. USA, Argentina, Turkey, Japan. Henry Ford died delighted with Hitler's literary labors. The USSR suffered the main losses in the civilian population. The military is about 12 million. The civilian population is about 20 million. BUT! Not who did not keep statistics of those who died from the consequences of the war. Even for the period from 1945 to 1950. And there one can only guess. The consequence of hunger, concussions, amputations, terrible labor both in captivity and in the rear. From 1941 to 1950, the country lost at least 40 million. Yes, the birth rate was high. But if it had not been for that war, the USSR at the time of 1989 would have had a population of about 400 million. Something like this .
  26. Seal
    Seal 28 January 2021 08: 56
    0
    Quote: antivirus
    our demographic (a citizen of the USSR - did not always receive a passport?
    Certification in the USSR in those years (war years) was not universal.
    It was only in 1974 that a new "Regulation on the Passport System in the USSR" was adopted, according to which passports were issued to all citizens of the USSR from the age of 16, for the first time including the inhabitants of the village, collective farmers. Full certification began on January 1, 1976 and ended on December 31, 1981.