Military Review

Fighters of the NGAD program can replace the F-35 in the USA

180
Fighters of the NGAD program can replace the F-35 in the USA

The United States Air Force will not be able to purchase enough F-35 fighters annually to get the required number of these aircraft into service by 2025. The second problem is the inability to maintain so many fighters in combat readiness, it would be too expensive.


This is written by the American media with reference to sources in the Pentagon. It turns out that the $ 800 billion of the military budget is already lacking.

The life cycle cost of the F-35 aircraft is too high, therefore, the US Air Force will not be able to purchase these aircraft in the A version of the design number of 1763 units. If nothing can be improved in the current situation, another aircraft will take the place of Lightning II - a product of the NGAD (Next-Generation Air Dominance) program.

- quoted by the American edition of Breaking Defense, the head of the US Air Force procurement service Will Roper.

The fighters of the NGAD program can indeed replace the F-35 in the US Air Force, but in the States themselves they express doubts that this can be done in the medium term. At least Will Roper, according to experts, does not set himself this uncontested goal.

It is believed that the words of the head of the procurement service should not be taken either as a statement of the decision, or as a "big attack" on the F-35. This is most likely a signal to Lockheed Martin that it needs to make more efforts to reduce the cost of operating aircraft, that is, to reduce the cost of an hour of flight. This is an attempt to put pressure on a company that is only increasing its financial appetites.

Too high maintenance costs for these fighters could lead to the fact that the Air Force cannot be armed with enough F-35A to confront China in a future war. Even the fact that American fighters are superior to Chinese 4th and 5th generation aircraft will not help the US Air Force if the PRC Air Force has a significant numerical superiority.

But if Lockheed Martin cannot make the F-35A less expensive to maintain, the US Air Force will have to think about how to replace them.

Currently, the F-35A flight hour is estimated at 42-44 thousand dollars. At the same time, no one can guarantee that the planes of the NGAD program will cost the American taxpayers cheaper.
Photos used:
https://www.lockheedmartin.com/
180 comments
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  1. Coconut
    Coconut 17 January 2021 09: 38
    +5
    shit in the ears of the people ... mattresses do not and will not be anything cooler f 22
    1. figwam
      figwam 17 January 2021 10: 56
      +8
      It turns out that the $ 800 billion of the military budget is already lacking.

      It turns out he is not getting cheaper, just another deception.
      But if Lockheed Martin cannot make the F-35A less expensive to maintain, the US Air Force will have to think about how to replace them.

      No one would change a new and good plane, even if it was expensive, but it turns out that it really did not justify the trust.
      1. Pessimist22
        Pessimist22 17 January 2021 11: 34
        +6
        Why are there a lot of them? They are invisible, you can count 1 in 10.
        1. Volkof
          Volkof 17 January 2021 14: 46
          -1
          The F35 is a highly specialized aircraft for covert reconnaissance! You don't need so many. 1:10 is in relation to the total number of F16, F15 and F18.
    2. Orange bigg
      Orange bigg 17 January 2021 12: 26
      +3
      Quote: Coco
      shit in the ears of the people ... mattresses do not and will not be anything cooler f 22


      The head of the US Department of Defense is of the same opinion about the F-35.
      Despite the fact that the United States considers the fifth generation fighter to be a source of pride, the acting head of the British Department of Defense spoke out quite harshly about the American combat aircraft, calling it "a piece of ******". The corresponding phrase sounded during a conversation with reporters, when Miller relayed a conversation with one of the US Air Force officers.

      “I can't wait to leave this position, trust me. Yesterday we talked with some guy, some lieutenant colonel or colonel, and asked: "What are you flying on?" He answered "the F-35". I called the plane a piece of d **** a ... and he was like that ... and he laughed and I said, "No, seriously, tell me about this," and he was ... a guy from F-16, F-35, he said ... "incredible plane" I am not ... I ... this is an investment for ... that ability that we should never use "well, we have to hold back, blah blah blah blah ... fifth generation? I think it's fun, you know right now, that we need to invest in the sixth generation, "Miller told Defense.gov.

      https://avia.pro/news/glava-pentagona-ne-sderzhalsya-i-nazval-amerikanskiy-f-35-kuskom

      Original Source https://www.defense.gov/Newsroom/Transcripts/Transcript/Article/2473893/press-gaggle-with-acting-secretary-miller-en-route-to-washington-dc/
      1. sedoj
        sedoj 17 January 2021 12: 47
        +2
        Quote: OrangeBigg
        The head of the US Department of Defense is of the same opinion about the F-35.

        Quote: OrangeBigg
        Despite the fact that the United States considers the fifth generation fighter to be a source of pride, the acting head of the British Department of Defense spoke out quite harshly about the American combat aircraft, calling it "a piece of ******".

        I did not understand: acting UK DoD became US DoD?
        1. Orange bigg
          Orange bigg 17 January 2021 12: 48
          +3
          Wrong. I'm sorry. Anglo-Saxons all look the same. MO UK.
          1. sedoj
            sedoj 17 January 2021 12: 50
            +2
            Quote: OrangeBigg
            Wrong. I'm sorry.

            Byvat. wink
      2. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 17 January 2021 14: 03
        +1
        He answered "F-35". I called the plane a piece of d **** a ... and he was like that ... and he laughed and I said, "No, seriously, tell me about this," and he was ... a guy from F-16, F-35, he said ... "incredible plane"

        Do you even read your own quotes?
        The F-35 pilot called it "an incredible aircraft."
        1. Orange bigg
          Orange bigg 17 January 2021 14: 27
          +4
          Did you understand the essence of what you read? ”The British Secretary of Defense talked about the American F-35 with one of the US Air Force officers (lieutenant colonel or colonel).
          Here's a quote:
          "What are you flying on?" He answered "F-35". I called the plane a piece of d **** a ... and he was like that ... and he laughed and I said, "No, seriously, tell me about this," and he was ... a guy from F-16, F-35, he said ... "incredible plane" I am not ... I ... this is an investment for ... that ability that we should never use "well, we have to hold back, blah blah blah blah ... fifth generation? I think it's fun, you know right now, that we need to invest in the sixth generation, "Miller told Defense.gov.

          What would you like to hear from the American officer when asked about the quality of the American F-35 from the Secretary of Defense of Great Britain? If he were otherwise he would have been fired. The American traditionally praised the F-35 before laughing when Min. The British Defense named the F-35 by its own name, which actually confirmed the words of the British. Read carefully.
        2. hydrox
          hydrox 17 January 2021 15: 52
          +3
          No, well, what do you think can be called an apparatus containing about 1000 defects (including those dangerous to the pilot's life (in December the Americans themselves admitted this, and in some respectable publication)), and it still has the ability to stay in the air and (Oh, horror! laughing ) fly the route ... request
    3. Intruder
      Intruder 18 January 2021 10: 09
      0
      and nothing will be cooler f 22
      do you think it is so bad !? :))) and there are better mass analogs ...
      1. shinobi
        shinobi 19 January 2021 07: 27
        0
        And what is the coolness of the F-22, besides the fact that it is "stealth"? The Su-30 is at least as good.
        1. Intruder
          Intruder 19 January 2021 09: 09
          0
          1.
          The Su-30, like the Su-34 bomber, in their concept are not stealth-oriented aircraft, as they actively search for air and ground targets using their own powerful radars and therefore can be easily detected by their radiation. This distinguishes the Su-30 from the fifth generation fighters (Su-57 and F-22), which attack targets with the radars turned off, working in a group with an AWACS aircraft, "illuminating" targets;
          Typical target detection range:
          "Fighter of the MiG-29 type": in the field of view of 300 sq. hail:
          on a collision course - up to 140 km;
          on catch-up courses - up to 60 km;
          "Railway bridge": - 80-120 km;
          "Group of tanks": - 40-50 km;
          "Destroyer": - 80-120 km;
          "Aircraft carrier": - 250 km.
          F-22, equipped with an AN / APG-77 radar with an active phased antenna array. Antenna of this type consists of ~ 2000 receiving-emitting elements. The main advantage of such an antenna is the electronic control of the main lobe of the directional pattern (analogue of beam scanning) - there is no need for mechanical scanning, which simplifies the design and increases the reliability of operation. Target detection range with RCS = 1 m² - 225 km (normal mode) and 193 km (LPI mode), cruise missile (0,1 m²) - 125-110 km. The instrumental range of the radar is 525 km.
          2.
          Su-30, equipped with two AL-31FP double-circuit forced turbojet engines with thrust vector control, thrust 7700 kgf at maximum and 12 kgf at afterburner;
          F-22, equipped with two turbojet bypass engines with afterburners (TRDDF) Pratt & Whitney F119-PW-100 with a thrust of 15 876 ​​kgf, and equipped with a thrust vector controlled in the vertical plane. These engines have a non-afterburner thrust of about 10 kgf and allow the aircraft to fly at supersonic speed without using afterburner, which is an important tactical advantage;

          This is just offhand, if you don't dig further :)
          1. shinobi
            shinobi 19 January 2021 09: 47
            0
            Not convinced. Do you know why? 22 were discontinued and there are only 122 pieces with completely outdated equipment that cannot be modernized. F-117 also did not have its own radar and did not work without target designation. After being shot down from an old Soviet air defense system, it was quickly removed from sin The F-22 will be better. But think about what it will do without external guidance? In conditions of total radio suppression? Under the aim of ground-based air defense? Do not flatter yourself, all stealths are invisible only in a very narrow range against air-to-air missiles 80s. For the S-300 and later models, he is just a target. As in other things, and the "weak" Su-30 with AFAR (perfectly distinguishing it from 150 km) and its missiles with an optical guidance channel, among other things. Oh yes! F-22 cool
            1. Intruder
              Intruder 19 January 2021 10: 15
              0
              Oh yes! F-22 is cool
              your SU-30 is just as cool !? :) You can see different approaches, you asked about the coolness of the F-22, I told you what is its coolness for the 5th generation ... without choosing the subtleties of different generations of classes of these aircraft, each of them are in their class, and there is surprisingly good! :) And you compare them head-on, while there are subtleties ... even with the stealth coating and its second version, after the modernization of the F-22, there is little public data , in order to judge everything in detail, after all, these are not toys - these "products" !? :)
              1. shinobi
                shinobi 19 January 2021 10: 23
                0
                That's right, head on! Because in the event of a war, these "products" will fight head on, few people will be interested that they are from different generations and niches. Especially their pilots.
                1. Intruder
                  Intruder 19 January 2021 10: 27
                  -1
                  Because in the event of war, these "products" will fight head-on, few people will be interested that they are from different generations and niches
                  the era of the "cold war" does not let go :)?, now there is a little other time, now there will be a lot of other "good" in the sky and it can "fly in" from everywhere, it is necessary to take a comprehensive approach to specific applications, in fact and target capabilities, and not to throw technique "head-on" on the opponent, namely, do not press the "meat" of the pilots, it is expensive and does not train quickly ... somehow! :)
                  1. shinobi
                    shinobi 19 January 2021 10: 44
                    +1
                    What kind of reality do you live in? The United States openly says - Russia is the enemy! Is practicing methods of delivering nuclear strikes, and the Cold War won't let me go? After the exchange of strikes, what remains will fight. And the advantage will be with the technology that can conduct combat operations independently The F-22, like 60% of US military equipment in general, cannot do this in principle. The Pentagon has not considered a war without preemptive nuclear strikes against Russia, in principle, since the 60s in general. Local clashes with our military in The Yankees avoid hot spots as much as they can, sometimes to the detriment of their own image, because they know what happened in such cases before. The answer will always be, in the most (not always obvious) painful point. 90s have long passed. In the sky of Syria, they just skidded when meeting with our fighters.
                    1. Intruder
                      Intruder 19 January 2021 11: 45
                      -3
                      After the exchange of blows, what remains will be at war
                      it was already, many years ago, a German genius like that, and said: "... with stones and sticks ..."! :)
                      And the advantage will be with the technology that will be able to conduct hostilities independently, in isolation from technical support, or even without it.
                      aha, just like that, without a clean runway and ground services, alone in the sky !?
                      The Yankees avoid local clashes with our military in hot spots as best they can, sometimes to the detriment of their own image
                      mmm, well, not everywhere, even in Syria, sometimes and recently they "buried" a lot of ichtamnets, in local collisions over wells, surprisingly with Russian passports and Assad's visas :)
                      Because they know what happened in such cases before.
                      but what happened, right here is the 3rd World War before and in it the Russian Armed Forces took revenge from NATO, maybe remember Vietnam and Korea ??? :) and that's it, and to the point, some and the second are now capital countries, South so, in general, a very developed country, with their electronics in the Russian Federation, we live and nothing :), but they do not have ours, why would ???
                      1. shinobi
                        shinobi 19 January 2021 12: 24
                        0
                        Oooh! Well, they carried Mitya's boots! And again it all came down to everyday life, although it was about military and military equipment. And yes, during the union, the electronics had their own, and of sufficient quality. For example, I had a tape recorder Maya. Faithfully served me since 1984 and until 2005 (it was replaced by a compact player) Why is there no domestic one now (in fact, there is, but it doesn't matter)? And thank Gorbochev. Yeltsin, with his young reformers and foreign advisers. Western capital needed a new market, they created it for themselves. After Korea and Vietnam, before Afghanistan, there was a lot more. And they snatched Yankee instructors from our advisers on a regular basis. But our press did not write about this, as well as theirs. And no matter how they fought among themselves over Egypt and Libya, Our phantoms did not shoot down over Syria. We have a long-standing relationship with Syria, and if it hadn't been for the 90s, there wouldn't have been such a mess that the Yankees had divorced. Probably, Gaddafi would have died peacefully.
                      2. Intruder
                        Intruder 19 January 2021 16: 58
                        -1
                        For example, I had a tape recorder Maya. Faithfully served me from 1984 to 2005 (it was replaced by a compact player)
                        I also had it, surprisingly (what model did you have, if not a secret?), only switched to magneto-optics back in 2000, in connection with the purchase of equipment supporting this technology!
                      3. shinobi
                        shinobi 20 January 2021 13: 55
                        +1
                        232 cassette player. Another batin receiver Leningrad 002. In the VHF band, he listened to Beijing and Tokyo. True, as a young man, he quickly twisted his head off.
                2. Intruder
                  Intruder 19 January 2021 11: 47
                  -3
                  In the skies of Syria, they just skidded when they met our fighters.
                  to remind, what and who was recently buried in the sky of Syria for the last 5 years in total ..., on "super-duper" modern devices, still Soviet-built, who skidded there - it's already interesting, find out the model and when. ..?
                  1. shinobi
                    shinobi 20 January 2021 14: 01
                    0
                    Do you want to plant a pig from around the corner, you will get a lot of nageroystvuyu? And they all washed themselves behind the bomber in blood. They wash themselves until now. From the detachment of militants who shot the pilot two people are left alive. You look adore the United States and the West in general, I advise you to emigrate. vaunted F-22. Do not look for links to messages, YouTube and the network have been very well cleaned over the past six months. It is impossible to find even what is well known
                  2. Intruder
                    Intruder 20 January 2021 18: 22
                    -3
                    You look admire the United States and the West in general, I advise you to emigrate.
                    there is no one to bow to me (except for my ancestors) and I do not advise you :))) Why did it hurt you so much? .., on all counts, although if some of the moments of our translation are not to our liking, why did they answer then, almost all of my factual arguments ... ??? and so, "the smell of burning", ... something is obvious .., why would !? :)
                  3. shinobi
                    shinobi 21 January 2021 06: 54
                    +1
                    Your facts are very controversial and are taken directly from the advertising of the Yankes. And there they are only cooler than eggs, which is far from the real state of affairs. It is enough to read the inspection reports of the Senate Arms Commission and the rainbow halo immediately disappears somewhere. You can find it. Why did you answer? And at night at a closed facility, in the intervals between rounds, there are not very many.
                  4. Intruder
                    Intruder 21 January 2021 07: 04
                    -1
                    Moved out?
                    Past ... !!! laughing
                    Your facts are very controversial and are taken directly from the advertising of the Yankes. And there they are only cooler than eggs, which is far from the real state of affairs.
                    victims of cunning marketing, in the Russian Federation is not so !? :) there are no analogs of wunder-waffles wassat
                    It is enough to read the inspection reports of the Senate Arms Commission and the iridescent halo immediately disappears somewhere. Somewhere, not everything has been erased. You can find it.
                    you will find, if of course not difficult, throw off the link in a personal, it will be interesting to read, of course, if not a fake ... drinks
                    And at night at a closed facility, in the intervals between rounds, there are not very many.
                    I sympathize ... (no sarcasm) for there is a service, a service .... both dangerous and difficult! bully
                  5. shinobi
                    shinobi 21 January 2021 08: 34
                    0
                    And as it turned out, there is no need to look for a report. In the wiki, in the info for 22, there is a section of criticism. From the pilot. For the sake of interest, I compared the performance characteristics of 30 & 22, and you know how it was not imbued. In terms of thrust-to-weight ratio, they are comparable, afterburner 22 will be a little quicker. The load is comparable. This is despite the fact that 30 carries one third more avionics and the co-pilot. Most of all, I was touched by the fact that on 22 there is no direct data exchange equipment and the pilot transmits information over the radio. It is written. There is no optical and infrared tracking equipment. At night, blind as a mole The absence of a side lacquer allows you to shoot missiles only on a linear course. I don't know how they conduct training battles in the USA, but the German pilot on the Typhoon made 22 without much straining. Here either the Yankees are frankly lying about the bird's capabilities, or all their pilots are useless windbag. And this is unlikely.
                  6. Intruder
                    Intruder 21 January 2021 10: 24
                    -3
                    Here, either the Yankees are openly lying about the bird's capabilities, or all their pilots are worthless windbags, and this is unlikely.
                    just use the complex
                    and deliberately concealing tactical data with an appendix as a disinformation, or do you think they are on WiKi, they will reveal the whole truth in public data, plus they will write about all the tests and upgrades for the F-22, ours also do not have this, and will not - only general terms and the president's cartoons ... wink
                  7. Intruder
                    Intruder 21 January 2021 10: 30
                    -1
                    Most of all, I was touched by the fact that on 22 there is no direct data exchange equipment and the pilot transmits information via a walkie-talkie. As it is written. There is no equipment for optical and infrared tracking. At night, blind as a mole
                    and what's that:
                    After a tender for research work more than 2 years ago, the working groups submitted for testing and evaluation the Visionix Scorpion guidance system for the F-22. The helmet-mounted system, integrating the signal, will allow the F-22 to conduct missile guidance with an estimated completion date in 2017. The helmet-mounted target designation system provides information processing and the integration of teams to hit the target. The development and production of the helmet-mounted guidance system is carried out by the South African company Denel, together with BAE Systems and SAAB.
                  8. Intruder
                    Intruder 21 January 2021 10: 34
                    -1
                    This despite the fact that 30 carries a third more avionics and a co-pilot
                    Russian avionics modules are the largest in the world laughing and the co-pilot, Duc, you can see the integrated systems of the LMS do not pull out in different modes, so they put the chela, plus if something happens ... if the "half-matted" car dies in flight, but the combat one must be performed! :)
                  9. shinobi
                    shinobi 21 January 2021 13: 33
                    0
                    Well, I don’t know, judge for yourself: The score is 284/2 in favor of 22 against Needle, Hornet and 16! And then the German does it on the first try? Someone is clearly lying. Helmet is cool of course, but the problem of blindness and homing does not solve. And then Why did they stop making it? At a price it is only slightly more expensive than 35, but that one has problems like a dog has fleas?
                  10. Intruder
                    Intruder 22 January 2021 03: 17
                    -1
                    Someone is clearly lying
                    here I am about it;)
                    The helmet is cool of course, but the problem of blindness and homing does not solve.
                    the helmet is "tied" to some detection system and other systems, without them it is not needed, from the word at all !? :) And why they stopped doing, most likely: either it is technically difficult to maintain with problems in trial operation, or the price is all the military budget still bites, perhaps both factors ...
  • Intruder
    Intruder 19 January 2021 10: 17
    -3
    Under the gun of ground air defense
    true, but the "boys" (developers) did not know, well, they were not aware of when they both designed ..., and both have REP complexes, why and why !? :)))
    1. shinobi
      shinobi 19 January 2021 10: 28
      0
      Well, are they worth? When you turn on the electronic warfare, but somewhat complicates the task of aiming, stealth loses all its invisibility advantage and shines like a Christmas tree. Here you are either stealth or you don't need to show off.
      1. Intruder
        Intruder 19 January 2021 10: 31
        0
        stealth loses all its invisibility advantage and shines like a Christmas tree.
        directly wrote about the reasons for the lack of radar on the F-117;)
        Here you are either stealth or do not need to show off.
        and here, a brief description of the Su-30 and its entire lineup ... winked
      2. Intruder
        Intruder 19 January 2021 10: 35
        0
        When you turn on the electronic warfare, but somewhat complicates the task of aiming
        introduces "errors" into the operating modes of the GOS URV ..., increases the time for practicing maneuvers at the target, and possibly gives it a "fence" interference field, which is also not unimportant in modern (digital) combat ... after all, they do not shoot stones, but rather "smart" systems, but with their own shortcomings :)
  • Intruder
    Intruder 19 January 2021 10: 21
    0
    The F-117 also did not have its own radar and did not work without target designation.

    hmm ... :), I am aware that with the exception of the target illumination laser, all aiming and navigation systems are passive. For guidance, a system of infrared cameras is used, for navigation - an inertial system and a receiver of a satellite navigation system ... why would an unobtrusive drummer need a radar that would give him 500 km for a serious RTR !? and ground reconnaissance groups quite successfully illuminated ground objects with a laser wherever it was used, plus high-resolution satellite maps with updates in flight, for stationary objects, this is for the eyes of the UAB, completely without an onboard radar, on it :)
    1. shinobi
      shinobi 19 January 2021 10: 49
      0
      Not about that. F-117 cope with the assigned tasks while no one tries to shoot it down. As an independent unit, without outside help, it is a complete zero.
      1. Intruder
        Intruder 19 January 2021 11: 36
        0
        F-117 cope with the assigned tasks while no one tries to shoot it down
        however, it is true ... :) like all others, to a greater or lesser extent, "but if there is a strong air defense ...", now we will probably move on that air assets are nothing in front of the air defense system !? or not...:)
        As an independent unit, without outside help, it is a complete zero.
        like many others without proper target designation ... and other things necessary in battle .., his concept is as it is and was conceived for that period of time ..., and the means appropriate to ensure it: approach imperceptibly (preferably at night and in fog :)), get target designation, any ground, air or even satellite, or detect in the IR - range, use what is in the internal compartments and quietly wake up "any formidable" on the ground, dump into fog or night starry sky, on subsonic .... :) if it is on the fingers, about the difficult ... :)
        1. shinobi
          shinobi 19 January 2021 12: 48
          0
          Only where there are no vigilant eyes. Do you think that over-the-horizon observation stations (up to 5000 km) are deployed from nefig? For their decimeter stations, like violets, stealth there or Santa's sleighs are flying. That year, in the north, the last window Everything is monitored, everything and everything. The systems are tied into a single network of early warning. It will not be possible to get close unnoticed. NATO experts themselves admit that they cannot penetrate our layered air defense at the moment. This is without taking into account our aviation. This is with the combined power of everything. On the fingers, available? In fact, Stealths in general, at the moment, do not make any weather at all. Since there is no technology to hide the plane from the radar completely.
          1. Intruder
            Intruder 19 January 2021 16: 41
            -1
            To approach imperceptibly speak? Only where there are no watchful eyes.
            that's what I said above ... :) ZGRLS stations, interesting solutions, I'm glad that they remembered them (as a person who worked in the RLN department :)), but there is a couple of "BUT":
            1. For the correct operation of the ZGRLS and the determination of the optimal path of the probing beam, it is necessary to have accurate data on the state of the ionosphere; that is, if something happened to the ionosphere, they sailed, that's why :) your beloved Americans did the so-called aurora studies in the ionosphere, back in the 80s of the last century, in low orbits, as a response to Soviet early warning objects. ..; and by the way, a lot of things can be done with the ionosphere, the simplest option: undermining with a small equivalent of something "vigorous" in it over a certain territory (plasma waves, a magnificent spectacle and "absence" of wave propagation, or rather a change in reflection angles) ... and wait for changes, while planning everything else ... or, like: HAARP! :)
            2. The blind zone (station is a stationary object ...), it is impossible to send a reflected signal to it due to the fact that reflection from the ionosphere occurs only at certain angles. The values ​​of these angles depend on the state of the ionosphere, which can change during the day (that is, you need to know this ... and the enemy too ...), therefore, for the operation of the ZGRLS, its constant monitoring is necessary. If the beam hits the ionosphere at an angle greater than necessary, it will break and go into outer space ... well, I tried it on my fingers :)
          2. Intruder
            Intruder 19 January 2021 16: 48
            -3
            .Since there is no technology to hide the aircraft from the radar completely.
            but no one talked about completely, but it is effective to complicate the definition and other parameters, why not, active and passive interference, stealth in a certain spectrum, and other interesting things, have been and will be done further, we have not yet touched the "explosive magnetic structures" of the gloomy the Soviet genius so, there RFEMI impulses were "hammered" up to damage to semiconductor components, warhead fuses and other things, moreover, for seconds ...
  • Vitalian
    Vitalian 17 January 2021 09: 44
    +5
    NGAD
    The name is appropriate, again a bunch of dough is thrown in and the Russians will laugh at them ..)))
    1. dauria
      dauria 17 January 2021 10: 02
      -12%
      and the Russians will laugh at them ..


      And it seemed to me that this was just the fun of the Russian military-industrial complex. Three varieties of attack helicopters, a couple of varieties of tanks, and a whole bunch of assorted submarines. Americans "conscience" will not allow to rob the budget of the country and make two types of aircraft for one task. Yes, they even made a "three in one" F-35 to reduce the cost. And then the "new type". Nonsense, they won't do that.
      1. Vitalian
        Vitalian 17 January 2021 10: 05
        +8
        Quote: dauria
        Yes, they even made a "three in one" F-35 to reduce the cost. And then the "new type". Nonsense, they won't do that.

        Well, pray for your US in Israel ..he hehe Remember Russia ten years ago and compare our military budget .. And who will laugh? lol
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 17 January 2021 11: 11
          0
          Quote: Vitalian
          Quote: dauria
          Yes, they even made a "three in one" F-35 to reduce the cost. And then the "new type". Nonsense, they won't do that.

          Well, pray for your US in Israel ..he hehe Remember Russia ten years ago and compare our military budget .. And who will laugh? lol

          At last! Welcome, glad to see you in good health hi ))
      2. Sidor Amenpodestovich
        Sidor Amenpodestovich 17 January 2021 10: 46
        +17
        Quote: dauria
        Americans "conscience" will not allow to rob the budget of the country and make two types of aircraft for one task. Yes, they even made a "three in one" F-35 to reduce the cost.

        Why are they still producing F-15, F-16, F-18? Ah, they have different tasks! .. And our Su-34, Su-35 have the same tasks, it turns out?
        For sale, you say? And ours are not for sale? Yes, yes, if Russia had the same sales market as the United States, then the equipment would be sold in no smaller quantities. Or do you propose to write off the existing Su-24, 27, 30 to hell? Or abandon the Su-57?
        What to do, oh wisest?
        1. dauria
          dauria 17 January 2021 11: 09
          -10%
          Or do you propose to write off the existing Su-24, 27, 30 to hell?

          Don't juggle, dear. Where did they read about Sushki? It is stupid to wind up the series and equipment of the factories of the cars being sold. But what will you do with the MiG-35? Who will return the money from this stupid undertaking to the country?
          1. Sidor Amenpodestovich
            Sidor Amenpodestovich 17 January 2021 12: 20
            +5
            Quote: dauria
            But what will you do with the MiG-35? Who will return the money from this stupid undertaking to the country?

            And what, in this case, to do with all generally unsuccessful undertakings? Do not move at all, since one day someone may say: you tried, but made a mistake, so what about you?
            It is clear that the larger the solution, the higher the cost of an error, but XNUMX% efficiency is unattainable. As the saying goes, whoever is without sin, then let him throw what he wants.
            In hindsight, all geniuses, but in practice, only a few have the guts to show initiative.
            1. Andrey.AN
              Andrey.AN 17 January 2021 12: 34
              +4
              There is a queue for the MiG-35, now they are making 50 machines for Egypt, the next batch for our Aerospace Forces.
              1. dauria
                dauria 17 January 2021 13: 24
                -2
                There is a queue for the MiG-35, now they are making 50 machines for Egypt,

                This is a newspaper "duck"
                Egypt has never signed a contract with the Russian military for the supply of MiG-35 fighters to the country's armament, and today it is nothing more than unreliable information disseminated by the media. This is reported by The Military Watch, noting that publications about the appearance of Russian fighters in Egypt's arsenal are nothing more than false information.
                More details at: https://avia.pro/news/egipet-otkazalsya-ot-pokupki-rossiyskih-mig-35-vopros-nadolgo-li
                1. Andrey.AN
                  Andrey.AN 17 January 2021 13: 56
                  +4
                  "The Military Watch" is not a distributor of newspaper ducks for you, they hope to break off the contract as usual and that's it. I would rather believe Wikipedia than the American press, at least the wiki has direct sources.
                  1. oprovergatel
                    oprovergatel 19 January 2021 15: 37
                    0
                    It's even worse there. Your opponent has provided a link to an article that links to "The Military Watch" on the g ** n resource avia.pro.

                    It is impossible to imagine a more jaundiced and dirtier "media".
          2. Tambov-there is god
            Tambov-there is god 17 January 2021 12: 52
            +4
            No need to throw excrement into the MiG-35, the car is beautiful.
            1. Andrey.AN
              Andrey.AN 17 January 2021 13: 07
              0
              Otherwise, the Egyptians would not have ordered fifty at once, as they say, whoever had time, he ate.
          3. shinobi
            shinobi 19 January 2021 07: 36
            0
            In vain, precious, you run into 35. He is a light multipurpose near-field and will still catch up. Now our videoconferencing has a different priority. Due to the failure of the 90s, Russia first of all needs to build up its potential in heavy systems because our "eternal friend" focuses precisely on the systems of "gaining superiority".
        2. The eye of the crying
          The eye of the crying 17 January 2021 12: 11
          +2
          Quote: Sidor Amenpodestovich
          Why are they still producing F-15, F-16, F-18?


          F-16 is produced only for export.
          1. Sidor Amenpodestovich
            Sidor Amenpodestovich 17 January 2021 12: 17
            +1
            Quote: Eye of the Crying
            F-16 is produced only for export.

            Third line from the top of my comment.
            1. The eye of the crying
              The eye of the crying 17 January 2021 12: 19
              +2
              Everything that is produced is made for sale. "But there is a nuance" (c).
              1. Sidor Amenpodestovich
                Sidor Amenpodestovich 17 January 2021 12: 21
                0
                Quote: Eye of the Crying
                Everything that is produced is made for sale.

                He who has eyes, let him read.
        3. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 17 January 2021 16: 13
          +1
          "F-15, F-16, F-18" ///
          ---
          1) F-16 is being written off. The squadrons are disbanded. They are being replaced by the F-35A.
          2) F-18s are bought in order to replace outdated Hornets on aircraft carriers with Superhornets. And form 3 new squadrons from the F-35C
          3) The Marines changed Harriers to F-35B
          4) The F-15 was never planned to be replaced by the F-35. The F-15 (and F-22) will be replaced with a new air supremacy fighter.
      3. Pete mitchell
        Pete mitchell 17 January 2021 12: 22
        +6
        Quote: dauria
        "Conscience" will not allow Americans to rob the country's budget like that ...

        Does the striped military-industrial complex have a conscience? Have fun. Only if you find documents from the time of the beginning of the ATF program, you will find that the accountant has worked a lot on it: having stipulated the fly away unit price, which they are now struggling to get up to; cost of operation and the entire program ... The conscience of the monopolists - story
    2. Intruder
      Intruder 18 January 2021 10: 12
      -1
      again a lot of dough is thrown
      they have enough of it, they can afford it without shedding a mean tear!
      Russians will laugh at them ..)))

      "... he laughs last", a purely Russian proverb, or am I mistaken?
      1. OgnennyiKotik
        OgnennyiKotik 18 January 2021 10: 17
        +1
        English has "He laughs best that laughs last".
        On the Internet they write:

        This expression belongs to the French writer Jean-Pierre Florian (1755 - 1794), who used it in the fable "Two peasants and a cloud" (Fables, Book 4): "Rira bien qui rira le dernier" - "He who laughs the last laughs well ".

        This expression came from England, around 1608, from a play called "The Christmas Prince".
        Laugh, laugh, laugh at my friend.
        Hee laughs best the one who laughs to the end
  • Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 17 January 2021 09: 45
    +2
    Ф35 are getting cheaper regularly. They have already reached $ 85 million / unit, in 5 years they will cost 50 million, and then 25 million, and in 10 years they will be profitable.
    1. OgnennyiKotik
      OgnennyiKotik 17 January 2021 10: 07
      +7
      Well, not really. The F35A is already being purchased for $ 77,9 million from last year. The price will be fixed at the level of 70-80 million. New blocks and inflation will not allow the fall below. They are already making a profit, they will soon recoup the investment.
      NGAD in any case will be 35-2 times more expensive than the F-2,5 and it is not there, so Roper is disingenuous.
      Unmanned aircraft pose a great threat to these programs, they will take away the bulk of strike, reconnaissance and fighter missions.
      1. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 17 January 2021 10: 14
        +10
        I think they scattered the costs according to various items .... and got a figure of 75-80 million .... after the conveyor was launched. And now all have counted together and it comes out a little expensive. Plus modernization. And so I agree. Taking into account their new ammunition, drones will take over the shock part, but they have been stamped in all sizes and formats. Something like "Hunter" in the striking part will replace or supplement the F-35. And, I think, we will read about the purchase of F-15XXX a couple of three more times
        1. SovAr238A
          SovAr238A 17 January 2021 22: 00
          +1
          Quote: Zaurbek
          I think they scattered the costs according to various items .... and got a figure of 75-80 million .... after the conveyor was launched. And now all have counted together and it comes out a little expensive. Plus modernization. And so I agree. Taking into account their new ammunition, drones will take over the shock part, but they have been stamped in all sizes and formats. Something like "Hunter" in the striking part will replace or supplement the F-35. And, I think, we will read about the purchase of F-15XXX a couple of three more times



          I fully agree that part of the F-35 program will be cut.
          They will be reduced simply because computer modeling, development, begins to operate exponentially, almost according to Moore's law ...
          The explosive growth of software, communications and communication systems is leading to something that American strategists did not even dream of during the development, testing and operation of the F-35.
          All these drones, swarms of drones, communications that support almost 100% coverage around the world in real time with gigantic bandwidth and much more, which are called "technologies of the 6th order" - give them the opportunity to realize their dreams without waiting for the release and half of the needs in the F-35.
          you have to understand this so that: "This is not a bad F-35, this technology has exploded so that it becomes obsolete at the production stage" ...
          There were plenty of such examples in military history.

          What is happening now is akin to the creation of cavalry, bows, gunpowder, cannons, battleships, battleships ...
          Now all military science is changing in the literal sense.

          And we will no longer see the F-15XXX in orders.
          they will not be needed in the new world.
          1. Intruder
            Intruder 18 January 2021 10: 14
            -1
            "This is not a bad F-35, this technology has exploded so that it becomes obsolete at the production stage" ...
            delayed at the start ... although for his age, precisely the time of the beginning of development, it was not bad enough!
      2. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 18 January 2021 19: 03
        +1
        It would be interesting to look out of the corner of my eye at this NGAD ...
        So far, this one prototype has not been spotted anywhere.
        1. OgnennyiKotik
          OgnennyiKotik 18 January 2021 19: 11
          -1
          I think this year they will show something, the advertising company has started smile
    2. Starover_Z
      Starover_Z 17 January 2021 10: 10
      0
      Quote: Zaurbek
      Ф35 are getting cheaper regularly. They have already reached $ 85 million / unit, in 5 years they will cost 50 million, and then 25 million, and in 10 years they will be profitable.

      And due to what profit then? If you do not fight anywhere yourself, do not seize plantations of various "herbs", areas with minerals, no one will just give them. Their technique is not cheap and the service is well worth ... Where will the money come from the amers ?!
      1. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 17 January 2021 10: 17
        0
        Well, the United States is very competent in building sales, specifically F16 and F35 ....... Involving third-party countries in production and selling there. And then the service will go ...
    3. Ros 56
      Ros 56 17 January 2021 10: 39
      +1
      Do not specify to whom? laughing If the manufacturer, then it already brings. negative
      1. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 17 January 2021 10: 41
        -1
        USA, as a state ..... and LM, of course, brings, with the signing of the contract.
        1. Ros 56
          Ros 56 17 January 2021 10: 48
          -1
          And why striped profits, they have a printing press. lol
          1. Zaurbek
            Zaurbek 17 January 2021 11: 02
            +1
            Apparently, there is a problem with the amount printed. But in general they do that. Without a seal, we would not see their military everywhere. Usually simulates 1 three per year. And this is the US military budget. In a pandemic year, I read somewhere, 3-4 trillion $ were printed.
            1. Ros 56
              Ros 56 17 January 2021 11: 10
              +2
              It will be interesting when it all collapses with a huge roar all over the world. The people will suffer immeasurably, but what are the people, some states can be covered with a copper basin. Then the mess will begin on a universal scale.
              1. Zaurbek
                Zaurbek 17 January 2021 11: 56
                +2
                It will not be very good for us either
          2. The eye of the crying
            The eye of the crying 17 January 2021 12: 23
            0
            Russia also has a printing press.
            1. Semenov
              Semenov 17 January 2021 14: 45
              +19
              Quote: Eye of the Crying
              Russia also has a printing press

              Only they are forbidden to use it.
              1. The eye of the crying
                The eye of the crying 17 January 2021 15: 20
                0
                Who forbids something?
              2. voyaka uh
                voyaka uh 18 January 2021 19: 08
                +1
                Reasonable people in the finance ministry.
                If you print money, it depreciates.
                Americans, contrary to popular belief, do not print
                dollars continuously. In the 21st century, there were two "quantitative stuffing".
                For two or three years each. And they are recorded immediately in the public debt.
                The rest of the time the machine works only to replace worn out banknotes.
                Exactly one to one.
                1. Uncle Vanya Susanin
                  Uncle Vanya Susanin 19 January 2021 11: 01
                  0
                  In 2007, the US government debt was 9 trillion, now it is more than 27 trillion, I doubt something:
                  ... In the 21st century, there were two "quantitative stuffing".
                  hi
                  1. voyaka uh
                    voyaka uh 19 January 2021 11: 44
                    +1
                    This is not from the printing of new pieces of paper. This is virtual borrowing
                    "on credit". The debt of the US government to its own banking system.
                    The guarantor of the US government is US bonds. They are some of the most profitable
                    in the world. Therefore, everything holds on.
    4. sav
      sav 17 January 2021 10: 47
      -1
      Quote: Zaurbek
      Ф35 are getting cheaper regularly. They have already reached $ 85 million / piece, in 5 years they will cost $ 50 million, and then

      Here! The plane is getting cheaper. We need a new program with a similar budget.
    5. venik
      venik 17 January 2021 10: 53
      +5
      Quote: Zaurbek
      Ф35 are getting cheaper regularly. They have already reached $ 85 million / unit, in 5 years they will cost 50 million, and then 25 million, and in 10 years they will be profitable.

      =========
      Uh-huh! And in 20 years, there will be pay extra, to buy. lol
    6. Svetlana
      Svetlana 17 January 2021 10: 58
      -1
      Armaments never make a profit.
      1. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 17 January 2021 11: 53
        0
        In peacetime, yes ..... work for the warehouse.
        1. Crimean partisan 1974
          Crimean partisan 1974 17 January 2021 14: 10
          0
          In peacetime, yes ..... work for a warehouse ...... well, the arms trade takes one of the leading positions in world trade. and if with regards to illegal trade, then first place
      2. Intruder
        Intruder 18 January 2021 10: 17
        0
        Armaments never make a profit.
        only if, not to organize a sales market in the future, or "platforms for demand" - military conflicts of various tensions, then the profit is zero and there is no economic sense in this and will not be!
      3. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 18 January 2021 19: 12
        +2
        Only if export earnings exceed purchases of their MO.
        And in general, MIC firms are less profitable than civilian firms.
        The most profitable (of the legal) is pharmaceuticals, games and casinos,
        and mobile phones.
    7. Tambov-there is god
      Tambov-there is god 17 January 2021 12: 54
      +1
      And in 15 years they will be presented with an additional payment, because if you want to ruin the country - give it an battleship.
      1. Intruder
        Intruder 18 January 2021 10: 18
        0
        give her an armadillo.
        better battleship! :)
  • Asad
    Asad 17 January 2021 09: 48
    +1
    Lockheed Martin is not doing very well anyway, and there is a lot of debt!
  • evgen1221
    evgen1221 17 January 2021 09: 49
    +2
    Make the whole world buy expensive penguins and for yourself with this money to cut down what is cheaper and newer. Nothing personal, business however.
  • svp67
    svp67 17 January 2021 09: 49
    0
    If nothing can be improved in the current situation, another aircraft will take the place of Lightning II - a product of the NGAD (Next-Generation Air Dominance) program.
    And such a good "carrot" for the industrialists of the US military-industrial complex ...
  • Tuzik
    Tuzik 17 January 2021 09: 50
    0
    with this program, even with the drawings, they did not decide how it would look
  • Vlad5307
    Vlad5307 17 January 2021 09: 56
    +1
    Quote: Zaurbek
    Ф35 are getting cheaper regularly. They have already reached $ 85 million / unit, in 5 years they will cost 50 million, and then 25 million, and in 10 years they will be profitable.

    Yes, after 10 years of their operation, it will be worthless scrap metal, not cars! Yes, they still need to hold out for these 10 years as an aircraft, because every couple of flights it is necessary to renew the stealth cover.
    so the only way to make it cheaper is to get the vassals in as much as possible and more expensive than this shit named Fu-35! laughing
    1. Zaurbek
      Zaurbek 17 January 2021 10: 38
      +2
      Look at F-16, F15, Su27-30-35 .... they are not going to retire.
      1. Intruder
        Intruder 18 January 2021 10: 19
        0
        Look at F-16, F15, Su27-30-35.
        while they do not see the point in this, the budget allows them to be exploited and modernized in any way, why invent something new, unnecessary risks and other things ...
  • Prisoner
    Prisoner 17 January 2021 10: 01
    +2
    Ali the machine broke down, or the constructor Are you too fat? Something does not stick with their devices.
  • rocket757
    rocket757 17 January 2021 10: 02
    +1
    If nothing can be improved in the current situation, another aircraft will take the place of Lightning II - a product of the NGAD (Next-Generation Air Dominance) program.

    And this may be ... or it may not be.
    We will see.
  • A. Privalov
    A. Privalov 17 January 2021 10: 11
    +5
    "They can replace the F-35", or they can NOT replace ...
    Empty little article. Only the title keeps.
  • APASUS
    APASUS 17 January 2021 10: 13
    +1
    The further this scam with the F-35 lasts, the more real information appears. This is a purely commercial project, unlike the F-22. This is why export permits for such serious equipment around the world began to appear so quickly. Americans are very serious about intellectual property, but here it is necessary to beat off the invested funds. Taking into account the life resource of the car, it will take an additional 2-3 volumes of funds invested in the purchase, then the Americans will sell the F-35 even to the Balts
    1. Intruder
      Intruder 18 January 2021 10: 23
      -1
      This is a purely commercial project, unlike the F-22.
      like any other military project from a commercial arms manufacturer, but so far there are no other options :) Either maintain a fleet of rapidly aging F-22s, or reach for money in the budget for an expensive-to-operate F-35, with the hope that someday it will be cheap analog ...
      1. OgnennyiKotik
        OgnennyiKotik 18 January 2021 10: 28
        0
        Quote: Intruder
        expensive-to-operate F-35, with the hope that someday there will be a cheap analogue

        Or an even more expensive plane arrives and the previous one becomes cheaper.
        When the F-14/15/16 came out, they were several times, or even ten times more expensive in the production and operation of their predecessors.
        1. Intruder
          Intruder 18 January 2021 11: 00
          0
          F-14/15/16, they were several times, and then ten times more expensive in the production and operation of their predecessors
          , why not !? Then there were also: one of the massive ones in the USA: F-4 "Phantom" II version until 1981 (F-14 after 1972, made up squadrons of fighter-interceptors as part of aircraft carrier groups ....), along with F -15 at the beginning of its operation, served, cheaper old men: F-102 / 106A! F-16, with F-4E they had in common the presence of: a common control system for missile and bomb weapons, the same nodes of its suspension and detachment mechanisms, weapons and ammunition, the same complex REP, which simplified the organization of the tasks of delivering missile and bomb and assault strikes against ground goals, as well as the work of technical personnel ...
      2. APASUS
        APASUS 18 January 2021 10: 42
        0
        Quote: Intruder
        This is a purely commercial project, unlike the F-22.
        like any other military project for a commercial arms manufacturer, but so far there are no other options :)

        Here I fundamentally disagree. Not all types of weapons are sold and not to everyone. It was the F-35 that became widespread purely from economic prerequisites. It did not show anything supernatural. "The F-35 is an attempt to combine the incompatible in one design - this is technology invisibility, and a sustainer supersonic engine, and vertical take-off, and strike capabilities, and the struggle in the air for supremacy.But it is almost impossible to implement everything efficiently on one platform - the output turns out to be quite mediocre, plus some systems remain unfinished to the end.
  • Kerensky
    Kerensky 17 January 2021 10: 31
    0
    Does the F-35 have its own "technical equipment" or will they be able to serve at any airfield?
    1. Zaurbek
      Zaurbek 17 January 2021 10: 39
      +2
      A key service is software updates for each aircraft only from a server in the United States. Except the cars of Israel and Britain. And so, yes, they can serve. And without updating - the plane of the 3rd generation.
      1. Kerensky
        Kerensky 17 January 2021 10: 47
        -2
        The key service is software updates for each aircraft only from a server in the USA.

        Well, how then are they going to fight? Let's say with China. Before lunch, and in the evening to fly for an update?
        1. Zaurbek
          Zaurbek 17 January 2021 11: 04
          -1
          With China, everything will be fine ...... but with whom the United States does not approve, you will not fight.
      2. The eye of the crying
        The eye of the crying 17 January 2021 15: 23
        -1
        Quote: Zaurbek
        And without updating - the plane of the 3rd generation.


        Tell us more about this.
    2. Intruder
      Intruder 18 January 2021 10: 46
      0
      at any aerodrome will be able to serve
      it is stated that for version "A" it is the so-called ground fighter (CTOL - normal take-off and landing). For combat use and maintenance of these vehicles, standard NATO airfields are used.
  • Cowbra
    Cowbra 17 January 2021 10: 42
    0
    This will be the first case in the world when the pepelats, which has not yet been adopted, will be replaced. good
    PiSi: schA again a sect of dristun worshipers will fly. He just has a nickname - a fat drystun in the usa)))
    Cultists, ay? When and where was the state acceptance? Press the minus sooner, until it disappears!
    1. OgnennyiKotik
      OgnennyiKotik 17 January 2021 10: 49
      +3
      1. In the United States there is no term "adopted".
      2. The first mass jet aircraft not accepted for service was the Yak-28. 1180 units were produced, served until 1994, without the official status "adopted".
      1. Cowbra
        Cowbra 17 January 2021 10: 57
        +2
        But the term "state acceptance" is there, and there are also designations of the series. Pre-series production - LRIP. Now LRIP 17 will go. And the serial - FR. And it’s not that much. Well, what term will we choose? Something seems to me. that with the status of "limited combat capability", pre-series production and the state acceptance overwhelmed in October 19 - he was not accepted anywhere. a?
        1. The eye of the crying
          The eye of the crying 17 January 2021 12: 13
          -1
          Quote: Cowbra
          But the term "state acceptance" is there,


          And how does it sound in English?
          1. Cowbra
            Cowbra 17 January 2021 12: 50
            -1
            Pentagon's Director, Operational Test & Evaluation

            Or, more often, DOT & E, go for a walk. The division is.
            1. The eye of the crying
              The eye of the crying 17 January 2021 13: 02
              -2
              "Director, Operational Test & Evaluation" is actually a job title, not a "state acceptance". And if you tried to say that the term "Initial Operational Test And Evaluation" corresponds to the "state acceptance", then the F-35 before passing this stage lacks only a ground simulator, the Joint Simulation Environment.

              Quote: Cowbra
              it has not been accepted anywhere. a?


              Accepted or not, but already ready.
      2. Intruder
        Intruder 18 January 2021 10: 30
        0
        The first mass jet aircraft not accepted for service was the Yak-28. 1180 units were produced, served until 1994, without the official status of "adopted".
        then the time was different and people were "harsher" :)
  • Tagan
    Tagan 17 January 2021 10: 57
    +1
    Quote: Zaurbek
    Well, the United States is very competent in building sales, specifically F16 and F35 ....... Involving third-party countries in production and selling there. And then the service will go ...

    Moreover, the formula for success is simple: an ally is stepped on a causal place, after which he is ready for anything)))
    1. Zaurbek
      Zaurbek 17 January 2021 11: 04
      0
      Not only. Often the product is good too. As with F16 ....
  • Tagan
    Tagan 17 January 2021 11: 06
    0
    Quote: Zaurbek
    Not only. Often the product is good too. As with F16 ....

    This subtlety can be omitted, since will buy everything that they "offer")))
  • Rurikovich
    Rurikovich 17 January 2021 11: 13
    +5
    Well done Yankees! They began to produce expensive, but at least adequate characteristics of the F-22. They counted and wept. Expensive. The task was to create a cheaper analogue. As a result, IT appeared - the Fi-35. In theory, they switched to a single-engine scheme, which should have slightly worsened flight characteristics and decently reduced the cost. But they wanted the best, but it turned out as always. In terms of flight characteristics, IT clearly does not pull on a decent pepelats, therefore they began to promote that this miracle is the 5th generation only because of the "stealth" technology. Like I saw earlier, fired from afar and that's all - a hero. The question is how much they are really invisible, how they are promoted. And since an attempt to combine a lot in small things, as has already been proven, is not real, then this penguinus is a decent plane only on paper. And since there were no alternatives, Lockheed Martin turned on the vacuum cleaner at full capacity, pulling babos out of the taxpayers. And in order to at least somehow level out the costs, they imposed on their vassals. They are vassals, they will not dare to refuse.
    What we have is expensive, unfinished, with average flight characteristics. our 57th is two times cheaper and much more decent in flight performance. But she is not the fifth generation, but the penguin is - because the Americans said so. fool
  • bar
    bar 17 January 2021 11: 21
    +2
    A country that prints dollars is not able to support the F-35? It's sad.
    "Another plane is a product of the NGAD program", after a lot of money is poured into this program, it will undoubtedly turn out to be better and cheaper. Well, how can you not rejoice at another overcoming of a potential enemy laughing
  • IRS
    IRS 17 January 2021 11: 33
    +2
    The price issue is not a problem. The international situation is such that, soon enough will come .. "sobering up" of the train of thought, even in the American Pentagon, This will greatly reduce the cost not only of the F35 and not only in America. The laws of physics governing everything that moves are the same for all countries, like the laws of economics. An economic analysis of recent wars and the capabilities of modern weapons systems clearly shows that in a strategic period, backward countries have no chances to withstand a military confrontation - defeat is inevitable, the most shameful, most unconditional defeat ...
    The F-35 is now expensive - no doubt about it, but this is a problem for economists and developers, not for the military. The Americans have options to do something else - they have a lot of money, and they have even more resources. But the rest of the countries no longer have such a widespread opportunity to choose and try, for the same reason - there is neither money nor resources ...
    There is one observation that has not yet been covered in the media. No one has conducted an open analysis of US military spending in the strategic period (over the past 50-100 years). This is generally a separate topic, not for one article. But those who did not touch this issue biasedly, undoubtedly noticed one very dangerous pattern today - the weaker the enemies (or rather victims) of the United States were, the more expensive and less effective American weapons became ... Those who are familiar with the military economy will find in this is precisely a pattern, not a contradiction.
    But for everyone else, especially those who defend, namely, non-American interests, there is nothing good in this. Because the picture of the world is changing. If earlier 10 years ago, the US military budget was mostly a business project of half an advertising nature, now the question of combat effectiveness is raised to its full extent, and everything else becomes more secondary. This will inevitably lead to a redistribution of funds, which is announced, including in this article about the possible replacement of the F-35. Then everything will only go faster.
    As a result, American weapons will become cheaper and more effective ... with the same or more military budget ... This is the main danger today.
    In other words, Russia and China, as the main opponents of the United States, have already mobilized their resources, and this only balanced the very confrontation between the superpowers, about which everyone writes so much, i.e. this did not lead to a significant redistribution of spheres of influence and a change in the size of economies. The United States is a state that is an undoubted technological and economic leader, you should not be mistaken about this - this is exactly the case, otherwise there would be no economic sanctions for the other countries, as well as the possibility of their introduction (there would only be import-export duties , and they are always mutual and not one-sided).
    And so ... what will happen if the United States also mobilizes its economy, setting before it a different goal than before, this is an open question. But it is already clear now (including from the above) that one should not expect concessions or even a loss from the United States ... No matter how it turns out quite the opposite, this is what we need to prepare for now, this would be the right decision, the right strategic a move both for the "friends" of the United States and for those who are not.
    1. OgnennyiKotik
      OgnennyiKotik 17 January 2021 11: 51
      0
      Right. If you look at promising mass models of weapons and equipment, you can see a clear trend towards reduction in price and unification. Frigates and "light" aircraft carriers are already planned for the Navy, medium tanks for the Army, the abandonment of the Abrams in the ILC, relatively cheap UAVs for the Air Force.
      UAVs under the Low Cost Attritable Strike Demonstrator - LCASD program will be the main aircraft of the Air Force, Navy, ILC. The goal of this program is to make a drone for a maximum of $ 4 million, comparable in capabilities to an aircraft. Based on preliminary results, it is possible or the budget will not be exceeded much.




      1. Intruder
        Intruder 18 January 2021 10: 33
        0
        The goal of this program is to make a drone for a maximum of $ 4 million, comparable in capabilities to an aircraft.
        zaboristy fantasy in the price tag :), but why does he need the functionality of a manned aircraft, the class is something different and the features are their own?
        1. OgnennyiKotik
          OgnennyiKotik 18 January 2021 10: 49
          0
          Quote: Intruder
          high-quality fantasy in the price tag

          Not really, specifically the XQ-58 is based on the BQM-167 Skeeter, its price is $ 570.
          Simplified avionics, Simplified or absent radar, no landing gear, limited reusable engine. That's the price.
          Quote: Intruder
          Why does he need the functionality of a manned aircraft, is it a different class and has its own peculiarities?

          Features are not functional. There should be comparable flight range, cruising speed, the ability to carry most aircraft missiles and bombs, and stealth.
          1. Intruder
            Intruder 18 January 2021 11: 10
            -1
            570 000 $
            :))) so I say that the price tag is too high ... with all the simplifications, 25% of the cost of a B-2, for an unmanned aerial vehicle with the main task (LCAAT) escorting F-22, or F-35 fighters !? :)
            There should be comparable flight range, cruising speed, the ability to carry most aircraft missiles and bombs, and stealth.
            the cruising speed may be lower, there is no crew, it may even "walk on the ceiling" for days, the digital carcass will not "rot", and will not lose combat effectiveness as a whole ..., but stealth and target (combat) load is better to increase with range, to the maximum!
            1. OgnennyiKotik
              OgnennyiKotik 18 January 2021 11: 32
              0
              Quote: Intruder
              with all the simplifications, 25% of the cost of B-2

              What does he mean?
              1. Intruder
                Intruder 18 January 2021 11: 49
                0
                What does he mean?
                all the same, the price for this bird is high, for a simplified version of a slave device and also an unmanned one, if in general terms ...
                1. OgnennyiKotik
                  OgnennyiKotik 18 January 2021 12: 13
                  0
                  In the sense of expensive? Normal price, count 2,5 tomahawks. The XQ-58 is an experimental machine, a completely different machine could go into production.
                  1. Intruder
                    Intruder 18 January 2021 12: 40
                    0
                    count 2,5 tomahawks.
                    not the cheapest CD, by the way ... :)
                    XQ-58 is an experimental machine, a completely different machine could go into production
                    , that's right, and the price is already "off scale" for a tactical slave device with the possibility of shock functions, something like this ... :)
                    1. OgnennyiKotik
                      OgnennyiKotik 18 January 2021 12: 44
                      0
                      Well, since it doesn't suit me, I can suggest UTAP-22. The design is less interesting, the functionality is about the same, it is estimated at $ 2-3 million This is the price of Bayraktar TB2
                      1. Intruder
                        Intruder 18 January 2021 13: 01
                        0
                        The design is less interesting, the functionality is about the same, it is estimated at 2-3 million
                        this is what I was waiting for, to be honest :) straight from the language was removed .. while reading other comments ...
                      2. OgnennyiKotik
                        OgnennyiKotik 18 January 2021 13: 03
                        0
                        All right, I issue an invoice, write the address where to send.
                      3. OgnennyiKotik
                        OgnennyiKotik 18 January 2021 13: 16
                        0
                        Quote: Intruder
                        I was waiting, to be honest

                        Here you go.
                      4. Intruder
                        Intruder 18 January 2021 13: 23
                        0
                        do you have the seal of the organization - the supplier confirming it is not visible and the INN, with the account numbers? :) Do you accept Swift ...?, or cache the old fashioned way ...
                      5. OgnennyiKotik
                        OgnennyiKotik 18 January 2021 13: 28
                        0
                        Quote: Intruder
                        Do you accept Swift ...?, Or cache the old fashioned way ...

                        What a Swift ... I beg you ... One of these days they will turn it off. The old fashioned way, cash. We gentlemen take each other's word for it.
                      6. Intruder
                        Intruder 18 January 2021 13: 33
                        -1
                        The old fashioned way, cash. We gentlemen take each other's word for it.
                        we haven't drunk the first one yet, but we already believe each other ... suspiciously somehow ... :)
                        Yes, and in cash ... to carry across the border, you still have to be with the customs service "on ointment" ...
                      7. OgnennyiKotik
                        OgnennyiKotik 18 January 2021 13: 35
                        0
                        Young man, we Russians do not deceive each other.
                      8. Intruder
                        Intruder 18 January 2021 13: 45
                        -1
                        yeah, just like that movie? from the beginning, like this:
                        and then like this:
                        https://youtu.be/dsbzYaQzSg8
          2. Intruder
            Intruder 18 January 2021 13: 39
            0
            By the way, what kind of picture is so interesting :), it is the upper projection of the device and the tips of the planes !? 22nd is not much different, does it look !?
          3. OgnennyiKotik
            OgnennyiKotik 18 January 2021 13: 42
            0
            There was an article on Thedrive. In a nutshell, the military gave a photo of the F15 under the wing of which some modification of the UTAP-22. What kind of modification, why and why were not told. Further on 2 pages of reasoning what it could be.
          4. OgnennyiKotik
            OgnennyiKotik 18 January 2021 14: 23
            -1
            Quote: Intruder
            plane tips

            Mounting for missiles or other systems is possible.
          5. Intruder
            Intruder 18 January 2021 14: 40
            0
            hmm, in this last photo, are the pylons or modules larger in section? and here is the module from above behind the nose cone, as on the first one under the wing of the 15th, no !?
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Lord of the Sith
    Lord of the Sith 17 January 2021 11: 36
    -1
    Lightning II will be replaced by another aircraft - a product of the NGAD program


    En GAD laughing
    GAD in power n, n -> ∞

    Yes, the Yankees are completely dead with their stupid fu 35. Even for a typewriter country, penguins are very expensive.
    And the airplane is rubbish in fact.
  • tralflot1832
    tralflot1832 17 January 2021 12: 11
    +1
    Over the past year, they poured so much unsecured money into the economy, and they (money) settled in banks (not three-liter) that they can afford a new fighter bomber. The Biden clan is smeared with the military-industrial complex? We need to work off the money! Boeing is not in a happy situation!
  • AAK
    AAK 17 January 2021 12: 22
    +1
    It is strange that the article did not say, how does the "new" GAD differ from the "old" and what is it in general?
    1. OgnennyiKotik
      OgnennyiKotik 17 January 2021 13: 12
      +1
      Twin-engine air superiority fighter, there will be two XA100 \ 101 engines, maximum take-off weight from 40 tons, avionics partly from the F-35, manned and unmanned, energy weapons. NGAD to replace F-15/22 in the Air Force and F / A-18E / F Super Hornet in the Navy. Made by daughter of Lockheed Martin.

      Something close to J-31
      1. The eye of the crying
        The eye of the crying 17 January 2021 13: 32
        0
        Quote: OgnennyiKotik
        Something close to J-31


        Pathetic fake J-31 wassat
        1. OgnennyiKotik
          OgnennyiKotik 17 January 2021 13: 33
          0
          There is such a chance laughing
          1. The eye of the crying
            The eye of the crying 17 January 2021 13: 46
            0
            IMHO, there is no such chance. The J-31 appears to be the bastard offspring of the F-22 and F-35. And the Americans (again) will do something new.
            1. OgnennyiKotik
              OgnennyiKotik 17 January 2021 13: 58
              +1
              Fundamentally new is unlikely. I think there will be more emphasis on the development of stealth, avionics, quasi-AI, directed energy weapons, electronic warfare, etc.
              Technique develops in the same way, from a variety of options, the optimal one is found and the development of its individual parameters begins, to fundamentally new technical discoveries.
              A striking example of mobile phones extravaganza at the start, now in fact one format for everyone, which occupies 99% of the market.
              1. The eye of the crying
                The eye of the crying 17 January 2021 14: 15
                -1
                Quote: OgnennyiKotik
                Fundamentally new is unlikely.


                Depends on the definition of "fundamental novelty". Some B-70 was not fundamentally new, but it differed significantly from everything that exists. And the concept art does not show the J-31, while they are similar to each other.

                Quote: OgnennyiKotik
                example mobile phones extravaganza at the start, now in fact one format for everyone,


                So they don't know anything new.
              2. Intruder
                Intruder 18 January 2021 10: 37
                0
                I think there will be more emphasis on the development of stealth, avionics, quasi-AI, directed energy weapons, electronic warfare, etc.
                quite, everything goes to this - silicon optotronics, as it downloaded over the past year, the focus on hardware support for any kind of AI, and the neural algorithms themselves, even free architectures have quite developed during the general pandemic ...
      2. Lesorub
        Lesorub 17 January 2021 14: 03
        +2
        Quote: OgnennyiKotik
        NGAD to replace F-15/22 in the Air Force and F / A-18E / F Super Hornet in the Navy.

        How can it replace the F 18 with a takeoff weight of 40 tons (more than the MiG 31)? I think a lighter aircraft will be developed for the Navy.
        1. OgnennyiKotik
          OgnennyiKotik 17 January 2021 14: 06
          0
          For a 40 tonne deck boat, there will be a maximum take-off weight. Most likely, different vehicles will go to the Air Force and the Navy. The new catapults are designed for aircraft with a takeoff weight of up to 45 tons.
          1. Intruder
            Intruder 18 January 2021 10: 40
            0
            The new catapults are designed for aircraft with a takeoff weight of up to 45 tons.
            well, this is a passing era, so it clings to the minds of naval specialists, a new round of development of VTOL devices is on the nose, for the Navy ...
            1. OgnennyiKotik
              OgnennyiKotik 18 January 2021 10: 59
              0
              They need a large combat radius. Now the challenge is 1000 miles. In any case, verticals will have less.
              1. Intruder
                Intruder 18 January 2021 11: 51
                0
                In any case, verticals will have less.
                but they are more universal for the fleet, and the radius is not always needed in 1000 miles, you can get closer ..., it's not everywhere true, but where the fleet goes, there usually is enough up to 1000 miles!
                1. OgnennyiKotik
                  OgnennyiKotik 18 January 2021 12: 17
                  0
                  One does not cancel the other. The division into heavy and light aircraft carriers is logical. Reducing the first to 6 pieces. In fact, it is already Nimitz / Ford and America. On heavy, full-fledged deck boats, on light verticals.
                  1. Intruder
                    Intruder 18 January 2021 12: 42
                    0
                    Perhaps helicopter carriers, UDC with deck lifts and heliports for vehicles with VTOL, all sorts of copters and other rotorcraft, you can also plant jet machines by the way !?
      3. AAK
        AAK 17 January 2021 22: 31
        +1
        thanks for the information colleague
      4. d4rkmesa
        d4rkmesa 18 January 2021 09: 31
        0
        J-31 is medium-light, 40+ tons will not be there. Most likely, it will turn out to be a kind of a cross between "Raptor" and "Black Widow" on new technical processes.
        1. OgnennyiKotik
          OgnennyiKotik 18 January 2021 09: 40
          0
          I mean by design. Naturally, there will be completely different classes of cars. They write about a possible rejection of the vertical tail. True, it is not clear how he will conduct a highly maneuverable battle. Render something to type


          Alternatively, the plane is closer to the YF-23


          In any case, this is still a fortune-telling on the coffee grounds.
          1. d4rkmesa
            d4rkmesa 18 January 2021 09: 46
            0
            Who knows, maybe. Simply, with a layout like the J-31 / F-22, the compartments will not be as bulky (the F-22 has practically squeezed the maximum out of such a layout), but to be bulky - it will be a rather large "suitcase", ala J-20 ...
            1. OgnennyiKotik
              OgnennyiKotik 18 January 2021 10: 01
              0
              Again, a question of money. You can make an ultimatum car, but how many can you buy? They need to fit into 200-220 million for a production car, otherwise there is no point in it at all. Conventionally, making a twin-engine F35 a la J-31, with high unification, is a clear and logical move. You can fit into 150 million. Innovation through the filling.
              Again, different aircraft can be made for the Air Force and the Navy.
      5. Intruder
        Intruder 18 January 2021 10: 35
        0
        Made by daughter of Lockheed Martin.
        if so similar to J-31, then the daughter can be seen from the "Chinese dad investor" !? :)
  • Lesorub
    Lesorub 17 January 2021 13: 58
    +3
    The United States Air Force will not be able to purchase enough F-35 fighters annually to get the required number of these aircraft into service by 2025. The second problem is the inability to maintain so many fighters in combat readiness, it would be too expensive.

    The Statesmen have never spared money on military spending - to support the F 35 program, they will print more, and the satellites buy this equipment and participate in joint production - and the planes of the NGAD program are planning for the future - at the end of this decade.
  • Miron
    Miron 17 January 2021 14: 39
    -2
    The criticism of the article in the comments is quite worthy of the level of a country that has sunk its last aircraft carrier.
    1. Ugochaves
      Ugochaves 17 January 2021 16: 54
      0
      If we count the PD-50 as an aircraft carrier crying, then yes .... But it's not for you to write here from a country begging around the world laughing
  • Kolin
    Kolin 17 January 2021 15: 20
    0
    Give me a trillion! (c) mattress mpk
  • konstantinos kontogiannidis
    konstantinos kontogiannidis 18 January 2021 01: 45
    0
    Multinational companies will leave no stone unturned in America after all!
  • Viktor Sergeev
    Viktor Sergeev 18 January 2021 09: 09
    0
    Siphoning money from the budget for another unnecessary miracle weapon is the goal of the Pentagon, and F16,15,18 will fight.
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. Viktor Sergeev
        Viktor Sergeev 19 January 2021 11: 04
        -1
        Who told you such nonsense? Do you at least read the news and see what kind of weapons the RF Ministry of Defense purchases? First of all, they buy Su35, 30, and Su57 just leisurely test, buy units, this is more of an experiment with buying 50-100 pieces in the future, the same with tanks, they buy T90, not T14, because it makes no sense to use against barmalei super modern weapons, and when it is needed everything will be decided by nuclear weapons.