Military Review

The road to each Temple is important for us

404

Russia, of course, is a multi-confessional country, and there are many mosques, synagogues, Buddhist stupas in it, and non-Orthodox Christians cannot consider themselves deprived. However, as a person baptized in the Russian Church, I will speak here just about the attitude towards our churches, chapels, cathedrals and temples.


Starting with the main


In the new and little-known Patriot Park, which is located in the Odintsovo district of the Moscow region, the Church of the Resurrection of Christ, the Main Temple of the Russian Armed Forces, almost does not close its doors. I was lucky to see him these winter days.

The majestic temple was erected in record time and opened in the year of the 75th anniversary of the Great Victory. This austere and impressive building literally at once on the land near Moscow pleases everyone who comes here with its splendor, perfection and good looks.


He ascended thanks to Russian patrons and donors, who did not skimp on their modest, and sometimes not at all modest donations for the sake of the embodiment of the feats of the defenders of the Fatherland in the complex of temple structures.

And everything turned out grandiose and stately. Everyone who comes here pleases the eye. And it touches the soul when next to the pompous cathedral there are such monuments as the grieving mother (pictured).


In the Main Church of the RF Armed Forces, absolutely everything is done wisely and fits perfectly into the realities of the XNUMXst century. Even when you notice the abundance of cell towers and security cameras, you can not stop simply rejoicing in this perfection. How did it manage to do so, seemingly and imperceptibly, but with due skillful attachment to objects, to do everything to the creators who adorned the Russian land with such splendor.

The main temple of the New Jerusalem Monastery will not give way to the main military cathedral with its beauty, revived after what the fascist "civilizers" did to it in 1941.


That's how it would be everywhere in our country. No matter where you go or stop by - everything is fine, original and unique.

On the Yaroslavl land


With this thought in mind, I decided to visit other, no less magnificent temple buildings in the Moscow region and beyond - in the Pereslavsky district of the Yaroslavl region.

So my journalistic destiny brought me to the village of Mikhailovskoye, not Pushkin's, but much quieter. I came to admire the dacha of a fellow border guard, who told me on the way that the main surprise would open to me as soon as we enter the main street of the village.

When the splendor of the Temple of Archangel Michael appeared to my eyes, I was stunned. It was built in the XNUMXth century at the expense of the daughter of Count Alexei Orlov-Chesmensky - Anna Alekseevna. What is this little comparable grace and at the same time power: the sun has just begun to rise, and immediately the massive walls of the cathedral and the high bell tower shone.

The road to each Temple is important for us

It seems to be a small village, but such an unearthly beauty. Apparently, obscurantists - atheists from the distant years of the last century - have not visited this temple for many years. They would put the order in the cult building, throwing the bells to the ground and settling down, turning everything around to dust and decay.

How did they or others like them do it in the tomb-crypt of the Orlov brothers "Otrada" in the village of Semyonovskoye. Already there they mocked to their satisfaction, stirring up the contents of the copper coffins and subjecting everything that was extracted to burning.


You will come and you will not be able to forget


But let's not talk about sad things anymore. We will rejoice this time at the stately construction of the daughter of Count Anna and we will rejoice at the fact that he brought up, despite all his dashing views, an excellent artist.

It was Countess Orlova-Chesmenskaya who sought out architects and builders who were able to translate her plan into such stone perfection. The parishioners are grateful to her and praise her to this day. Because you come to the Temple once and you are no longer able to part with it: it is constantly in your thoughts and earthly affairs.

And I also happened to visit Solba some ten years ago, where the Nikolo-Solbinsky convent was being restored at full speed. The scope of construction work was striking in its scale: everything around, as far as I could see, was in motion. People, mechanisms were constantly moving, and before our very eyes, what was previously destroyed was reviving.

Thanks to the abbess Erotiida, the monastery quickly regained its former glory and grandeur. It was she, thanks to the connections and the environment of donors created by her, that she ensured that the main gas appeared in Solba, which is still not available in the surrounding villages and villages.

It was thanks to her that the opening of a kindergarten and a "Good School" became possible in the monastery. Here children study and grow up in an Orthodox environment. They have everything, they don't need anything.


Yes, the glorious creators have not yet died out in Russia, thanks to whom the monastery gingerbread and ceramic workshops work. And what kind of water is in Solba - it flows and flows in a separate structure, as if it were alive, just substitute your palms. And now the life-giving moisture has already filled them, and all of it is so unusual, holy and tasty.

Pilgrims and tourists visit the Solbinsky monastery every day. Very soon, a renewed road will stretch to it. So come, there is something to see and marvel at.

In memory of the admiral


I so did not want to end my essay on a minor note, but having covered a little over fifteen kilometers, I found myself in the Highlands. Amazing village and lovely people.

On this land, the creator and winner in the Chesme naval battle, Admiral Grigory Andreevich Spiridov, together with his sons, erected more than two hundred years ago a beautiful temple of the Transfiguration of the Lord.


Here he is in front of us - and stately, and at the same time simple, with a bell tower and cannons from the Turks he had defeated. Enemy vents can still be seen in the temple walls, if only to look closely. The admiral's grave is in the temple (see photo). He died in Moscow, and is buried where, as he thought, he would always be at peace.

But the revolution took place, and the dark people reached out to the admiral's relics. They plundered, stole the admiral's dagger, and threw out the remains of the naval commander. They were buried by kind people behind the temple fence.

In the forties, when the fascist enemy was driven from the Russian land, the admiral fleet USSR Nikolai Kuznetsov revived the former glory of the glorious Admiral Spiridov. So, in March 1944, in the village of Nagorye, the central street began to be called by his title and surname.


The remains of the hero of the Fatherland were returned back to the grave, but the devastated temple never regained its former grandeur. But in it repair shops worked regularly, blacksmiths forged steel and damask steel. Only in the 90s of the XX century, the temple was surrounded by scaffolding, and the restorers began to revive the temple buildings.

They managed to do a lot, but not all of them were skilled. Already a few years later, water streams, flowing along the improperly erected roof, began to grind the bricks, and they swam and are now crumbling. In some places, iron sheets perforated and in a thunderstorm and rain, water rushes into the temple chapels.


Not all of them have been restored either - apparently the funds have run out. Nevertheless, the Temple lives, works, services are held, and parishioners come here to praise the Most High and their neighbors in good prayers.

One for all of Russia


And the Lord sees everything and waits for the good oligarchs, of whom there are already more than two hundred on the Forbes list, to remember the greatest naval commander Grigory Spiridov. He also destroyed with Count Orlov-Chesmensky, captains of battleships and frigates, Russian sailors and soldiers of landing companies in one battle over 11 thousand Turks.


However, what is their fault, patrons of the arts: after all, in school textbooks stories, which they diligently read, only two lines were written about the Chesme battle, at most a small paragraph. And who after that will remember the greatness of the Chesme battle, and what did it bring to Russia?

In 2020, as you know, July 7 was the 250th anniversary of Chesma. Not many allowed themselves to remember this date, they just forgot. Only on July 26, at the Naval Parade in St. Petersburg, the name of Admiral Spiridov was first heard among other outstanding Russian naval commanders.

On this day, there was a holiday in the Upland - eminent guests arrived, and the service was conducted by the Bishop of Pereslavl and Uglich Vladyka Feoktist himself. The restored admiral's dagger was brought and handed over for eternal storage by the gunsmith Viktor Naumov from Zlatoust.

During the meal, the head of the Pereslavl administration Valery Astrakhantsev spoke, with whom many pinned great hopes for the revival of everything connected with Spiridov. But less than six months later, the head of the city district Pereslavl-Zalessky Astrakhantsev, who could not stand the battle with the local population and indifferent officials, left the battlefield for Lake Pleshcheyevo.

In 2019, the associates of the movement "For Admiral Spiridov!" addressed in a letter to Russian President Vladimir Putin with a request to resume restoration work in the Church of the Transfiguration of the Lord. This is not the first time, but so far all requests have frozen and remain unanswered to this day.

Today we have entered the year of celebration of the 325th anniversary of the Navy of our state. Let us also observe when grace will descend on the land of Nagoryevsk! This temple, given to all of us by Admiral Spiridov, is one for the whole of Russia, and it is useless to offend it or avoid it!
Author:
Photos used:
Valery Stegnina, author, monasterium.ru, sobory.ru
404 comments
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  1. Valerikk
    Valerikk 18 January 2021 12: 08
    +58
    There will soon be more temples than schools and hospitals put together .. Why so many?
    1. kalibr
      kalibr 18 January 2021 12: 15
      -12%
      Quote: Valerikk
      There will soon be more temples than schools and hospitals put together .. Why so many?

      In our Penza region, one person is building a church. Yes, he has money. And that's why the church is very beautiful. And it's nice to look at her. And remember ... yes, the commandments. It would be worth building for that alone, huh?
      1. Mordvin 3
        Mordvin 3 18 January 2021 12: 25
        +15
        Quote: kalibr
        Yes, he has money. And that's why the church is very beautiful.

        One autoretite gave two hundred thousand bucks to build the temple of Christ the Savior.
      2. WIKI
        WIKI 18 January 2021 12: 26
        +9
        Quote: kalibr
        And remember ... yes, the commandments.

        Simple question. If a person observes the commandments as much as possible, but does not attend the temple, then where will he go in heaven? I think that to get to where everyone wants, it is enough to observe the commandments. And you can promote them without leaving your educational institution.
        1. lopvlad
          lopvlad 19 January 2021 09: 20
          +8
          Quote: WIKI
          keep the commandments whenever possible


          What is it like ? Today he stole millions from his fellow countrymen and then built something for them for tens of thousands and a place in Paradise guaranteed?
          1. WIKI
            WIKI 19 January 2021 12: 06
            0
            Quote: lopvlad
            Stole millions from fellow countrymen today

            He stole, violated the commandment. While we live on earth, then the earthly court comes into play, if this is a normal state. They won't let you build something "for a few tens of thousands" as an excuse.
        2. Vladimir1155
          Vladimir1155 19 January 2021 11: 49
          0
          Quote: WIKI
          I think that to get to where everyone wants, it is enough to observe the commandments.

          Do YOU ​​personally observe them? If you are so perfect, then your place is in heaven, but I know that ALL people cannot observe them, everyone envies and looks at other people's women, many also steal, and if he did not kill, then he probably amazed people with words ... yes, the church not ideal because it consists of imperfect people, if you find an ideal church do not enter there, because by your presence you will violate its ideality ...
          1. WIKI
            WIKI 19 January 2021 12: 30
            +1
            You missed the important phrase "whenever possible". Going to church for cleansing, allowing you to do this procedure regularly, only contributes to the further corruption of a person. Before signing the law on pension reform, our president probably went to church and asked for forgiveness for breaking his own oath. Not surely, but most likely for sure if he is a believer, thereby confirming his inconsistency. But he cleansed his soul.
            1. Vladimir1155
              Vladimir1155 19 January 2021 12: 34
              -4
              strange logic, or rather its complete absence, you have a split mind ... a typical case of a pagan? if he purified his soul, then he tried not to sin, "as far as possible." and if you think that the soul does not need to be purified and repent of sins, then you will sin as much as you like, "If there is no God .... then everything is allowed" Dostoevsky wrote this, are you smarter than Dostoevsky?
              1. WIKI
                WIKI 19 January 2021 13: 00
                0
                Quote: vladimir1155
                the soul does not need to be cleansed and repent of sins,

                There is no need to repent, but to draw conclusions so that this does not happen again, without turning to the other side. If you have offended a person, then it is enough to realize this and apologize. And the best result is that the other side accepts your apology. Going to church will in no way change the attitude of the offended side towards you. I don't even know what paganism is. Therefore, in my assessments I do not resort to the analysis of how to look at it from the side of this or that religion. I reflect on the basis of universal human values. In this regard, I am more free than adherents of religious views on life.
                1. Vladimir1155
                  Vladimir1155 19 January 2021 14: 17
                  -1
                  Quote: WIKI
                  I reflect on the basis of universal human values. In this regard, I am more free than adherents of religious views on life.

                  read again what you have written and compare with Dostoevsky's quote ... it's the same thing! you yourself confirmed that it is freer, that is, it is easier for you to cross the line, we draw the line ourselves, so we cross it ourselves and push it aside, because this is my devil and not God's, the real master of his word himself gave and took away ... but a completely free robber He will kill you because he can cross the line, because he himself drew it for himself, and the mythical values ​​"universal" also invented for himself and among them the right to kill you, because his "universal" values ​​include his well-being, not your life. ... and so on to everyone.
            2. Akuzenka
              Akuzenka 22 January 2021 15: 33
              +1
              But he cleansed his soul.
              Rightly noticed. You will not sin, you will not repent. If you do not repent, you will not be saved. And what is convenient. Almost like trade, by the Pope, by indulgences.
      3. tatra
        tatra 18 January 2021 12: 27
        +24
        Well, yes, the enemies of the communists spent colossal money of Russia and the Russian people on the inculcation of religion, and none of them is able to adequately explain what specific benefit the religion has brought to Russia and the Russian people. And with their freedom from the communists, which they longed for, in which they revealed their whole true nature, they all proved that they do not care about all "God's commandments".
        1. lopvlad
          lopvlad 19 January 2021 09: 24
          -5
          Quote: tatra
          what specific benefits did the religion of Russia and the Russian people bring


          Orthodoxy is the foundation of Russia, which holds its multinational people together. Without Orthodoxy, Russia will disintegrate like a house of cards.
          1. Vladimir1155
            Vladimir1155 19 January 2021 11: 53
            -9
            Moreover, in 1917 great Russia had already crumbled, for the faith was forgotten, and its remnant of the USSR was also destroyed by atheism ... we go to experience the depth of the fall further, read how much bile the people have here, what are their souls from where does this bile flow? so the conclusion is that the light at the end of the tunnel is not visible yet
            1. aleksejkabanets
              aleksejkabanets 19 January 2021 12: 38
              +8
              Quote: vladimir1155
              moreover, great Russia had already crumbled in 1917,

              Where was this greatness? In Tsushima? Was it that 85% of the population was illiterate? Look at the number of doctors and teachers per 1000 people in Russia and Europe. You have already got the "crust bakers", read something about that time. School literature, at least, isn't it time to reread?

              Quote: vladimir1155
              read how much bile people have here, what are their souls where does this bile pour?

              And if churches are built at public expense, will people become better? Will they begin to keep the commandments? The Sermon on the Mount, at least, will they read and comprehend? In order to be a worthy and moral person, the church is not needed. You just have to work on yourself and not commit bad deeds. The church today is only a commercial organization, nothing more, unfortunately.
              1. Vladimir1155
                Vladimir1155 19 January 2021 14: 23
                -8
                Quote: aleksejkabanets
                Where was this greatness?

                to Tsushima, the people fell away from the faith especially to know, and about the greatness of Orthodox believing Russia, look at the map of the times of the peacemaker tsar, all this was acquired by Orthodox Russian people, As for doctors ... in those days there were more of them per capita than in England and America with Europe , as well as roads, too, and you are comparing the 21st century and the 18th times were different
        2. Vladimir1155
          Vladimir1155 19 January 2021 12: 22
          -9
          Quote: tatra
          enemies ... of Russia and the Russian people
          for example, the Khattab declared the ROC his main enemy, for he knew what the power of Russia was
      4. Temples
        Temples 18 January 2021 12: 29
        -39%
        Quote: Valerikk
        There will soon be more temples than schools and hospitals put together .. Why so many?


        Look at the photo in this article.
        On them Russia.

        Himself, what did you do in this life?

        Doesn't the Temple bother you?
        1. aleksejkabanets
          aleksejkabanets 18 January 2021 12: 41
          +34
          Quote: Temples
          Look at the photo in this article.
          On them Russia.

          The Moscow Metro, KAMAZ, the development of virgin lands, victory in the Second World War is the same Russia, only these achievements are much more significant for society.
          Quote: Temples
          Himself, what did you do in this life?

          And you?
          Quote: Temples
          Doesn't the Temple bother you?

          We will stumble about them soon. Over there, in my village, at the school they cannot build a gym with workshops, there is no money, but they are going to build a church, the money is there. Normal situation?
          1. Simargl
            Simargl 18 January 2021 13: 10
            +8
            Quote: aleksejkabanets
            Over there, in my village, at the school they cannot build a gym with workshops, there is no money, but they are going to build a church, the money is there. Normal situation?
            How many airplanes or ships can be built with the money that has already been abandoned and will still be on this temple?
            1. kalibr
              kalibr 18 January 2021 13: 38
              -8
              Probably not one! It is small, there is not even enough for a T-95 tail.
              1. Simargl
                Simargl 18 January 2021 13: 46
                +7
                Quote: kalibr
                Probably not one!
                Oops! Didn't specify. I'm talking about green.
              2. Akuzenka
                Akuzenka 22 January 2021 15: 37
                0
                Probably not one! It is small, there is not even enough for a T-95 tail.
                But pensions for pensioners could be raised. And teachers and doctors, salaries. Otherwise, soon "by God's grace" an electric current will flow through the wires and radio waves will spread.
          2. kalibr
            kalibr 18 January 2021 13: 40
            -22%
            Quote: aleksejkabanets
            can not

            Again, bad uncles cannot. And I'm on the edge of the righteous. And what have you done yourself to change the church for a hall?
            1. aleksejkabanets
              aleksejkabanets 18 January 2021 16: 15
              +12
              Quote: kalibr
              Again, bad uncles cannot. And I'm on the edge of the righteous. And what have you done yourself to change the church for a hall?

              I wrote, and I'm not the only one, what else can I do? Buy a machine?
          3. Olgovich
            Olgovich 18 January 2021 14: 16
            -27%
            Quote: aleksejkabanets
            Moscow subway

            But the Caracas, Brazilian, Sanpaul and other TENS of the world's subways somehow built without the Bolsheviks, yes.

            And even more so in the fourth or fifth world economy.

            Moreover, the famous long-term construction BAM BAMLAGA to the Transsib-as to the sky on foot, and longer than the Alekseevsky bridge RI, the next could not build anything like that, yes ...
            Quote: aleksejkabanets
            virgin land development

            Yes, a significant nonsense: in the RSFSR, 15 million hectares were "mastered" at wild costs, while it was ...abandoned 13 million hectares long-developed agricultural lands ...
            Quote: aleksejkabanets
            We will stumble about them soon

            people stumble about the ruins of 150 thousand disappeared settlements of Russia from 1959 to 1989 (half of all) and ruins tens of thousands churches of Russia, destroyed by the previous government.
            1. Foul skeptic
              Foul skeptic 18 January 2021 15: 28
              +8
              Yes, a significant nonsense: in the RSFSR, 15 million hectares were "mastered" at wild expenses, while 13 million hectares of agricultural lands that had long been developed were abandoned ...

              Please tell us about these 13 million?
              Let's see how this will look in the overall structure of the increase in agricultural land in the RSFSR.
              1. Vadim237
                Vadim237 18 January 2021 18: 16
                -13%
                It doesn't matter how it looked in the structure of the RSFSR - the fact remains the fact that the RSFSR and the USSR as a whole could not provide themselves with food. The root of this problem goes back to 1928.
                1. Foul skeptic
                  Foul skeptic 19 January 2021 08: 12
                  +5
                  Will you start again about wheat imports?
          4. Revolver
            Revolver 18 January 2021 21: 40
            -3
            Quote: aleksejkabanets
            virgin land development
            You'd better keep silent about this. It was not for nothing that the ancestors plowed virgin lands, although the men in Russia were constantly crying about the lack of arable land. Yes, for a couple of years the virgin soil gave such yields that Khrushch, with joy, promised grain to hell knows who at bargain prices. And then it turned out that as a result of soil erosion, there would be no harvest without the active use of chemical fertilizers, and even with chemistry there would be nothing similar to the first years. No one thought that the steppe forbs with its intertwined roots precisely protected the soil. Brezhnev jumped from Kazakhstan to Moscow in time, so that all the successes on the virgin lands seem to be his, and he seems to be not involved in the subsequent failures.
            The fact that crop failures in the virgin lands coincided with the disappearance of meat and dairy products from the shelves and Khrushchev's rise in prices for them is not a coincidence. The workers' protests that ended with the execution in Novocherkassk were also no coincidence.
            1. aleksejkabanets
              aleksejkabanets 18 January 2021 21: 53
              +6
              Quote: Nagan
              You'd better keep silent about this. Ancestors knowingly did not plow virgin lands

              About virgin lands and so on, everything is much more complicated than you wrote.
          5. Vladimir1155
            Vladimir1155 19 January 2021 11: 55
            -4
            this is different money, it's good that your village has people building a temple, there is hope that your village will not die out from drunkenness and drug addiction, at least someone will remain. and visitors to gyms, unfortunately, drink too much and die early, I saw it myself.
            1. aleksejkabanets
              aleksejkabanets 19 January 2021 12: 06
              +4
              Quote: vladimir1155
              this is different money, it's good that your village has people building a temple, there is hope that your village will not die out from drunkenness and drug addiction, at least someone will remain. and visitors to gyms, unfortunately, drink too much and die early, I saw it myself.

              Please substantiate your statements. How is it different money? Some of them come from the federal budget, under a grant, and others. If the church is erected, then work will appear, they will stop running from the village to the city, they will quit drinking and smoking pot, the sections in the club will start working, so what do you think? This was especially touched: "and the visitors to the gyms, unfortunately, drink too much and die early, I saw it myself" like pray, don't forget to bring bablishko to church, and you don't need to do sports, all this is demonic, is it? Is it necessary to study at school, or is it the same "from the evil one"?
              1. Vladimir1155
                Vladimir1155 19 January 2021 12: 11
                -3
                Quote: aleksejkabanets
                some from the federal budget, under a grant,

                where have you seen these grants? the state does not give a dime, only private donations,
                1. aleksejkabanets
                  aleksejkabanets 19 January 2021 12: 29
                  +1
                  Quote: vladimir1155
                  where have you seen these grants? the state does not give a dime, only private donations,

                  Well, you are absolutely "out of this world", they are carried out as infrastructural objects, as cultural objects, and as patriotic. The main reason is correct. I don't know how the head spent it. But no private traders participate here. They also spend through the Cossacks, there is the same budget money.
                  Quote: Simargl
                  However, in our secular state, everything is not quite so: for example, the CSU is built on 97% of our taxes.
                  And since the church is supported by taxes, it means that they are lacking somewhere else.

                  Also for you to think about. And with the rationale, how?
                  Quote: aleksejkabanets
                  If the church is erected, then there will be work, they will stop running from the village to the city, they will stop drinking and smoking pot, the sections in the club will start working, so what do you think? This was especially touched: "and the visitors to the gyms, unfortunately, drink too much and die early, I saw it myself" like pray, don't forget to bring bablishko to the church, and you don't need to do sports, all this is demonic, is it? Is it necessary to study at school, or is it the same "from the evil one"?
                  1. Vladimir1155
                    Vladimir1155 19 January 2021 12: 42
                    -4
                    Quote: aleksejkabanets
                    Well, you really are completely "out of this world"

                    if you don’t know anything, then don’t squeak, I’m just dealing with land issues, and I was a Cossack, there’s nothing to get through the Cossacks, there’s little money of a penny (DND expenditure item), but what goes to the Cossacks themselves as law enforcement (DND) , as an employee of the local administration, unlike you, I know what budgetary discipline is, and expenditure items .... we cannot take money from landscaping for a kindergarten, and payments to third-party public organizations ... this is a criminal article already. let it be known to you! it is good if the local administration can at least bring the road to the temple under the article of repairing roads in the settlement, no more.
                    1. aleksejkabanets
                      aleksejkabanets 19 January 2021 12: 52
                      +2
                      Quote: vladimir1155
                      it is good if the local administration can at least bring the road to the temple under the article of repairing roads in the settlement, no more.

                      Ours is coping, they have filed for the grand. In addition, there is their own money from the CBM (firewood, planting). And as for the Cossacks, money is normal there, the land is "Cossack" and is rented and not only that.
                      1. Vladimir1155
                        Vladimir1155 19 January 2021 14: 25
                        -5
                        let's do it, Cossack societies and the ROC are still different organizations legally and practically
        2. Simargl
          Simargl 18 January 2021 12: 47
          +27
          Quote: Temples
          Doesn't the Temple bother you?
          Not a single church supported by parishioners' money bothers! However, in our secular state, everything is not quite so: for example, the CSU is built on 97% of our taxes.
          And since the church is supported by taxes, it means that they are lacking somewhere else. For example, in medicine or education.
          1. Vadim237
            Vadim237 18 January 2021 18: 17
            -3
            "And since the church is supported by taxes" - What taxes do the church support?
            1. The comment was deleted.
            2. Simargl
              Simargl 19 January 2021 15: 23
              +3
              Quote: Vadim237
              What taxes do the churches support?
              If you do not pay taxes, this does not mean that others do the same.
              Quote: RBK
              According to RBC estimates, in 2012-2015, the Russian Orthodox Church and its affiliated structures received at least 14 billion rubles from the budget and from state organizations.
              Can you guess where government organizations get the money?
          2. Vladimir1155
            Vladimir1155 19 January 2021 11: 56
            -5
            Quote: Simargl
            97% on our taxes.

            did you see it, did you read the documents?
        3. Valerikk
          Valerikk 18 January 2021 13: 06
          +19
          Quote: Temples
          Himself, what did you do in this life?

          I learned, served, work, raised children.
          And you?
          1. Simargl
            Simargl 18 January 2021 13: 17
            -5
            Quote: Valerikk
            I learned, served, work, raised children.
            Is being proud of the minimum program for a normal person already a fashion?
            1. kalibr
              kalibr 18 January 2021 13: 35
              -17%
              Quote: Simargl
              Is being proud of the minimum program for a normal person already a fashion?

              Andrei! And for many, the program is even at least completely different: he drank, had a snack, somehow worked, lay on the woman, which one is not clear, ... he fermented, drank again, gave in the face, sat down, went out ... got old, .. ..ok came - sewed for a pension.
              1. Simargl
                Simargl 18 January 2021 13: 37
                +2
                Quote: Simargl
                minimum program for of normal people
              2. Revolver
                Revolver 18 January 2021 21: 48
                +3
                Quote: kalibr
                for many, the program is even at least completely different: he drank, ate, somehow worked, lay on the woman, which one is not clear, ... ka fermented, drank again, gave in the face, sat down, went out ... got old, ... .ok came - sewed for a pension.

                // Directly after Leonov in the role of Associate Professor:
                while (true)
                {
                Stole;
                I drank;
                To jail;
                }
                // infinite loop
            2. The comment was deleted.
              1. Simargl
                Simargl 18 January 2021 13: 44
                +4
                Quote: Valerikk
                Answering a question with a question is also a fashion?
                Forgive me generously: where did I not notice the question?
                I thought you were bragging about the minimum that a normal person should strive for!
                For example, I had a fad for my health, and I'm working on the other as best I can. But I'm not boasting about that.
                On the site - quite normal people, many of your "achievements" have surpassed.
          2. Vladimir1155
            Vladimir1155 19 January 2021 12: 01
            -5
            what have you learned? and why? How many children? Here in Orthodox Russia, the norm was at least 5 children, and now we are dying out, but you have all the norms, as I see it, here I have few children, four, at least you have served well, respect, otherwise many still do not serve.
        4. astepanov
          astepanov 18 January 2021 17: 50
          +14
          Quote: Temples
          Himself, what did you do in this life?

          Doesn't the Temple bother you?
          At Saratov University, a temple was built on campus (count - on state land) and at the expense of the university. Before the revolution, the architect L.K. Mufke, who designed the university, did not consider it necessary, and the current ones were noted. I recently visited my native chemistry department: ancient equipment, shabby classrooms, beggar students and professors. But then - a pompous church, which is empty and does not fit into the strict architecture of the campus. So no pants, but a hat. No, the temple does not bother me. But the university is clearly against the grain of someone. And I guess who.
          For me, a couple of good warships, or several strategic missiles, or a dozen fifth-generation fighters would be more than a full-fledged replacement for the temple. Prayer, of course, helps to overcome the enemy - but the weapon is more reliable. And is everything clean with the temple in terms of our national game called "Sawing the dough"?
          1. Vladimir1155
            Vladimir1155 19 January 2021 12: 08
            -5
            Do you reason like an unkind memory of Admiral Menshikov, who refused prayer services in Sevastopol, they served on one bastion, only he resisted .... and Stalin, having attacked, was allowed to fly around Moscow with an icon, and a turning point in the war began? ... rockets and ships are controlled by people, and if they are all unprincipled and corrupt Judas, then the ships are useless. Here you personally oppose the commandment "do not steal" so why are you surprised that they steal? ... are you offended that others are doing it? and if you were appointed you would not steal? After all, you rejected the commandment, and not only they
      5. aleksejkabanets
        aleksejkabanets 18 January 2021 12: 34
        +16
        Quote: kalibr
        In our Penza region, one person is building a church. Yes, he has money. And that's why the church is very beautiful. And it's nice to look at her. And remember ... yes, the commandments. It would be worth building for that alone, huh?

        It’s not bad that it’s building, the bad thing is that schools and hospitals aren’t building at such a pace. There are fewer and fewer budgetary places in universities, that's what is bad. But they do not remember the commandments, and the overwhelming majority of "Orthodox" did not read the Bible. In my village, "churched Christians" turn a broom in front of the door so that they do not jinx it and insert paper money into it, so that money can be found. The number of temples does not affect the moral purity of the nation. It is much more difficult to work on yourself than to go to light a candle.
        1. kalibr
          kalibr 18 January 2021 12: 40
          -8
          Quote: aleksejkabanets
          It is much more difficult to work on yourself than to go to light a candle.

          Without any doubt. But the temple is not for those who insert money into a broom.
          1. Simargl
            Simargl 18 January 2021 12: 51
            +21
            Quote: kalibr
            But the temple is not for those who insert money into a broom.
            And for whom?
            If the churches are left to be maintained by the parishioners, in 15 years they will, in most cases, fall into disrepair and they will have to be rented out for offices / warehouses, or demolished / blown up!
            Oh! It was so!
          2. aleksejkabanets
            aleksejkabanets 18 January 2021 12: 56
            +11
            Quote: kalibr
            Without any doubt. But the temple is not for those who insert money into a broom.

            A controversial issue, such as the time and are the main "replenishment of the temple egg-box". I bought a candle, maybe God will forgive. Pagans.
            1. kalibr
              kalibr 18 January 2021 13: 32
              -7
              Quote: aleksejkabanets
              "replenishers of the temple capsule".

              These go, yes, but they don't really believe. They care about "the house and the cross on it." And beauty and spirituality are the tenth thing.
              1. astepanov
                astepanov 18 January 2021 17: 56
                +5
                Quote: kalibr
                And beauty and spirituality are the tenth thing.

                In your opinion, there is no beauty and spirituality without religion? Leo Tolstoy got along without a church - do you think he was spiritless? Aren't you taking on a lot?
                1. kalibr
                  kalibr 18 January 2021 20: 23
                  -7
                  Quote: astepanov
                  Leo Tolstoy got along without a church - do you think he was spiritless? Aren't you taking on a lot?

                  Yes, there was a spiritless lecher. Read his wife's memoirs. They do not pass at school, but they are on the Web.
                  1. astepanov
                    astepanov 18 January 2021 22: 57
                    +8
                    Quote: kalibr
                    They do not pass at school, but they are on the Web.
                    On the web, especially if you search for "fried", you can find a lot. Remind you which of the hierarchs of the Church shines with "Rolexes"? Maybe remind you of one non-governmental organization that became famous for its excise-free trade in alcoholic beverages in the worst years? Who was more than once caught trying to build churches on state, and even public lands? The example of Saratov University is very indicative: illegal construction, land seizure ... And the endless attempts to push the Law of God into public schools? And how about bringing creationism into school curricula? If you are such a fan of network "strawberries", you should know about it.
                    No, I do not want to say that religion is definitely bad, and I see that the church really does a lot of good where the hands of the state and public organizations do not reach. But you are wrong to think that a religious person is definitely better than an unbeliever. Remember history, the times when everyone was a believer. I assure you, the most disgusting crimes were happening much more than now.
                    And you would not touch Tolstoy: you have not grown up to Lev Nikolaevich, faith alone, even the most sincere, is not enough for this.
                    1. kalibr
                      kalibr 19 January 2021 06: 49
                      -3
                      Why is it necessary to jump from one to the other? They don't do that. They wrote to you that there is a memoir of Tolstoy's wife. They are also published. He himself confessed to lecherous actions, this also exists ... This is only then - the less strength, the more deanery. And first ... So read on. Then we will discuss.
                    2. kalibr
                      kalibr 19 January 2021 06: 50
                      -2
                      Quote: astepanov
                      But you are wrong to think that a religious person is definitely better than an unbeliever.

                      Why do you think so? I wrote about Tolstoy and that's it!
                    3. lopvlad
                      lopvlad 19 January 2021 09: 39
                      -2
                      Quote: astepanov
                      Remind you which of the hierarchs of the Church shines with "Rolexes"?


                      And you were forced to hand over money to "Rolex" or some tax obligatory for everyone in the form of money for "Rolex" is there?

                      Quote: astepanov
                      Who was more than once caught trying to build churches on state, and even public lands?


                      an interesting question if you do not know that before 1917 the ROC owned so much land that in fact most of the Russian cities are on their land.


                      Quote: astepanov
                      And the endless attempts to push the Law of God into public schools?


                      and what is wrong with the Law of God in school. Or does it prevent someone from promoting Western "values" in the form of sex education and gender identity?

                      Quote: astepanov
                      I assure you, the most disgusting crimes were happening much more than now.


                      lived at that time and saw with your own eyes? ...
                      1. astepanov
                        astepanov 19 January 2021 15: 00
                        +5
                        Quote: lopvlad
                        and what is wrong with the Law of God in school. Or does it prevent someone from promoting Western "values" in the form of sex education and gender identity?
                        First, the church is separate from the state. Secondly, a lot of subjects are tightly packed in the school curriculum. Which one do you want to replace with the calendar? Mathematics? History? Third, Scripture has nothing to do with science. Are you going to add Six Days instead of astronomy and biology? Fourthly, the most pious of the "democratic" countries - America - religiosity does not in the least interfere with promoting "gender identity", and in the godless USSR they did not even know a word like that.
                        Quote: lopvlad
                        lived at that time and saw with your own eyes?

                        No, I didn't. But he taught history at school. The largest number of serfs (in fact, slaves) in Russia was at the monasteries. Good believing peasants now and then rebelled and burned estates, robbed, cut and raped, and no less kind nobles suppressed uprisings, tortured, chopped off heads and hanged them. And the story of the schism with Patriarch Nikon, when the Old Believers were outlawed - it still reverberates to this day. Not enough examples for you? I can give you more.
                        Quote: lopvlad
                        an interesting question if you do not know that before 1917 the ROC owned so much land that in fact most of the Russian cities are on their land.
                        What, did the city belong to the church? Areas of universities?
              2. Vladimir1155
                Vladimir1155 19 January 2021 12: 26
                -4
                Mirror and monkey read

                Monkey, in the Mirror, seeing his image,
                Silently bear a sense of foot:
                "Look, - he says, - my dear kum!
                What is this face?
                What are her grimaces and jumps!
                I would hang back with anguish,
                Whenever she ever looked like her.
                But, admit, there is
                From my gossips of such krivlyak five or six:
                I can even count them on my fingers. "
                "Than the gossips count to work,
                Isn't it better to turn on yourself, godfather? "-
                She answered Mishka.
                But Mishenkin's advice just vanished.

                There are many such examples in the world:
                No one likes to recognize himself in satire.
                I even saw that yesterday:
                That Klymych is unclean on the hand, everyone knows it;
                About bribes Klymychu read.
                And he nods to Peter by stealth.

                let's not judge others, they will answer for themselves, someone else's soul is dark, we ourselves would be saved
                Quote: kalibr
                they don't really believe
          3. frog
            frog 18 January 2021 13: 12
            +3
            The temple is not made of logs (c) For faith, this is ..... a structure - unnecessarily. Absolutely. The right priest - yes, you do. No matter what religion he adheres to. However, religion is an institution, and he is a collaborator. Alas....
            1. lopvlad
              lopvlad 19 January 2021 09: 43
              -3
              Quote: frog
              No matter what religion he adheres to.


              enchanting stupidity.
        2. Sergej1972
          Sergej1972 18 January 2021 13: 43
          +2
          The number of budget-funded places in universities is not decreasing, but in 2021, on the contrary, there is an increase. The decrease is partly in the case of humanities, lawyers, economists. For engineers, IT specialists, doctors, teachers, an increase. Another thing is that people still want to study as economists, lawyers, psychologists, etc. In general, people now receive more money for public places than in the Soviet period. Compare the student population of any provincial university in 1990 and now. Now, in most cases, there are two to three times more students, and not only at the expense of the payers, but also at the expense of state employees. Among the students, both state employees and paid employees, there are a lot of those who did not have a chance to enter a university in Soviet times.
          1. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 18 January 2021 13: 54
            0
            Quote: Sergej1972
            Among the students, both state employees and paid employees, there are a lot of those who did not have a chance to enter a university in Soviet times.

            Heh, my nephew is studying. So, here she lives in the room. All the other girls are dull, they are paid 90 thousand by Rodaks for their studies.
            1. Sergej1972
              Sergej1972 18 January 2021 14: 05
              +3
              I'm talking about intellectual capabilities, not financial status. There are some students who should not be taken to universities for any money. They have hardly mastered the school curriculum, do not want to educate themselves, and often do not want to work in their future specialty either. And after graduation, they don't look like people with higher education. Why do they need this education?
              1. Mordvin 3
                Mordvin 3 18 January 2021 14: 08
                0
                Quote: Sergej1972
                I'm talking about intellectual capabilities

                My nephew is the chess champion of the city. Therefore, it is free to study.
                1. Sergej1972
                  Sergej1972 18 January 2021 15: 08
                  +1
                  Well done! Good luck to her! But her neighbors - is there hope or not?)
                  1. Mordvin 3
                    Mordvin 3 18 January 2021 15: 10
                    0
                    Quote: Sergej1972
                    Well, do her neighbors have hope or not?)

                    Of course have. Their dad and mom pay 90 thousand a year.
                    1. Sergej1972
                      Sergej1972 18 January 2021 15: 11
                      0
                      Well, I mean the real level of their knowledge, diligence, etc.
                      1. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 18 January 2021 15: 17
                        +2
                        Quote: Sergej1972
                        Well, I mean the real level of their knowledge, diligence, etc.

                        Yes, they are complete fools. If not for the money, they would have been deducted long ago. Learn to be officials. Something about land requisition.
              2. frog
                frog 18 January 2021 16: 33
                0
                There are some students who should not be taken to universities for any money.

                And there are about two-thirds of them. From this, sounded by you, splendor. Like in a union ...
            2. astepanov
              astepanov 18 January 2021 18: 04
              +4
              I wonder that nowadays more budgetary places are received than in the USSR. There were no commercial universities in the Union. The hostel was almost free, and even now students do not know about scholarships (those pennies that are paid nowadays are ashamed to be called scholarships). And the quality of education in most of today's universities is such that they graduate professionally unfit ignoramuses. I did, I know what I'm talking about. But on the other hand, in terms of the pace of construction of temples, we are ahead of the rest. I don’t understand: do they want to build a clerical state in our country?
              1. Mordvin 3
                Mordvin 3 18 January 2021 18: 22
                +1
                Quote: astepanov
                There were no commercial universities in the Union. The hostel was almost free

                In general, it was free in our techie.
                Quote: astepanov
                students today do not even know about scholarships (those pennies that are paid today, and it’s a shame to call a scholarship)

                Personally, I had a thirty. Plus fifteen more for coupons.
                Quote: astepanov
                And the quality of education in most of the current universities is such that they graduate professionally unfit ignoramuses.

                My neighbor taught at the university. Asks one student what a threaded connection is called. He is silent. The girls tell him: "A bolt! A screw! A screw!" That one is worth ... The neighbor is crazy: "When did you have a bicycle?"
                "Yes, there was ...."
                "Have you ever repaired it?"
                "No....
                So what the devil are you doing as a mechanic?
        3. parusnik
          parusnik 18 January 2021 18: 32
          +11
          But they do not remember the commandments, and the overwhelming majority of "Orthodox" did not read the Bible.
          True, it is interesting that those who have declared themselves Orthodox do not read the Bible, they do not observe the commandments. I am an atheist, I read the Bible, plus the Gospel, which were not included in the Bible, I keep the basic commandments, at least I try. burn the fire. laughing
          1. Vladimir1155
            Vladimir1155 19 January 2021 12: 30
            -6
            Quote: parusnik
            Orthodox, they don't read the Bible

            well, they read at the liturgy !, and they also explain it in the sermon, and have you read it on top and already know everything? .... and even condemned ALL Orthodox Christians who allegedly did not read ..... nya Mirror and a monkey read

            Monkey, in the Mirror, seeing his image,
            Silently bear a sense of foot:
            "Look, - he says, - my dear kum!
            What is this face?
            What are her grimaces and jumps!
            I would hang back with anguish,
            Whenever she ever looked like her.
            But, admit, there is
            From my gossips of such krivlyak five or six:
            I can even count them on my fingers. "
            "Than the gossips count to work,
            Isn't it better to turn on yourself, godfather? "-
            She answered Mishka.
            But Mishenkin's advice just vanished.

            There are many such examples in the world:
            No one likes to recognize himself in satire.
            I even saw that yesterday:
            That Klymych is unclean on the hand, everyone knows it;
            About bribes Klymychu read.
            And he nods to Peter by stealth.

            RUB

            EP-140 price
        4. Artyom Karagodin
          Artyom Karagodin 18 January 2021 19: 45
          +4
          Alexey, thank you so much for your sane comment. Otherwise, the intensity of the discussion does not always leave room for him. In principle, the construction of churches, when it does not turn into an end in itself, is a necessary thing, but ONLY WHEN the main thing is not forgotten - the desire to live according to the commandments of Christ.
          Quote: aleksejkabanets
          It is much more difficult to work on yourself than to go to light a candle.

          If we in Russia would spend more effort on this (including, alas, priests), then there would be enough for both churches and schools with hospitals. And people would not turn over the brooms, and would understand what candles are needed in churches, and that to put them "correctly" is a matter of 200, if not further down the list, in order to be a Christian. On the other hand, there was no such degree of hatred as you notice in the comments

          PS Only Deripaska and Sechin would be dissatisfied. But we would feel sorry for them and help with employment))).
          1. aleksejkabanets
            aleksejkabanets 18 January 2021 19: 55
            +2
            hi
            Quote: Artyom Karagodin
            Alexey, thank you so much for your sane comment.

            You're welcome))))
            Quote: Artyom Karagodin
            If we in Russia would spend more effort on this (including, alas, priests), then there would be enough for both churches and schools with hospitals.

            If people all over the world would spend more efforts on working on themselves, communism would have been built long ago and would have lived like in the Soviet fantasy of Snegov or the Strugatskys. But all these would ...
            1. Artyom Karagodin
              Artyom Karagodin 18 January 2021 20: 01
              0
              Well, communism in its classical, Marxist version is still possible only according to Orwell's scenario. But social justice and equal opportunities for all-round development are quite achievable, and the USSR is an example of this, albeit not ideal. However, there can be nothing ideal in this world by definition.

              It seems to me that Russia will still return to this path, the demand in society is too great for this, only I would like it without the shocks of the 1917 model. or 41st. And if the 17th is unlikely to be repeated, then the 41st, in my opinion, is not far off, judging by what is happening in the country and the world.
              1. aleksejkabanets
                aleksejkabanets 18 January 2021 20: 16
                +2
                Quote: Artyom Karagodin
                It seems to me that Russia will still return to this path, the demand in society is too great for this, but I would like it without the shocks of the 1917 model.

                I would like to believe in it, but I'm afraid it's impossible without shocks.
                Quote: Artyom Karagodin
                then the 41st, in my opinion, is not far off, judging by what is happening in the country and the world.

                The only hope is that nuclear weapons will cool hot heads. But there will be local conflicts with the participation of Russia, "don't go to a fortuneteller." The only question is where they will lead. My guess is that the new "Tsushima".
                1. Artyom Karagodin
                  Artyom Karagodin 18 January 2021 20: 21
                  +2
                  Quote: aleksejkabanets
                  The only question is where they will lead. My guess is that the new "Tsushima".


                  Yes, it's hard to disagree with Alexander Timokhin here))).

                  But in terms of hopes for nuclear weapons, I am a pessimist. Experience shows that in the end there is one that opens Pandora's box. Moreover, everything can start with a local conflict, and only further - on the knurled one. All previous periods of turbulence in world politics ended exclusively in wars. It is unlikely this time will be different. However, if I am mistaken, I will only be glad.
      6. Uncle lee
        Uncle lee 18 January 2021 12: 34
        +8
        Quote: kalibr
        the church is very beautiful.

        So let it be as a historical and museum value (if it deserves it) ...
        PS But how to understand THIS - to create a church from the Oktyabr cinema?
      7. Undecim
        Undecim 18 January 2021 12: 35
        +20
        And if the place of the church is a hospital?
        Looking at her, you don't remember the commandments?
        Or is the hospital not so charitable?
        1. kalibr
          kalibr 18 January 2021 12: 42
          -14%
          Quote: Undecim
          Or is the hospital not so charitable?

          Previously, hospitals were also built. Over time, when they are full, they will understand. Not them, so their children, grandchildren ...
          1. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 18 January 2021 12: 51
            +7
            Quote: kalibr
            Previously, hospitals were also built. Over time, when they are full, they will understand. Not them, so their children, grandchildren ...

            Oh, damn it ... And Count Shuvalov built a hospital. When the French took over the hospital, they thought it was a palace.
          2. aleksejkabanets
            aleksejkabanets 18 January 2021 13: 02
            +15
            Quote: kalibr
            Over time, when they are full, they will understand.

            They will never fill up, you are an intelligent person, you know this better than me. And for their children, I don’t want to write.
            1. kalibr
              kalibr 18 January 2021 13: 20
              -12%
              Quote: aleksejkabanets
              They will never fill up, you are an intelligent person, you know this better than me. And for their children, I don’t want to write.

              That's exactly what I know. People change...
          3. Stirbjorn
            Stirbjorn 18 January 2021 13: 04
            +10
            Quote: kalibr
            Previously, hospitals were also built. Over time, when they are full, they will understand. Not they, but their children, grandchildren.

            Offer to be patient, in short ?!
            1. kalibr
              kalibr 18 January 2021 13: 20
              -17%
              Quote: Stirbjorn
              Offer to be patient, in short ?!

              Do not tolerate! The barricades are waiting for you!
              1. Aviator_
                Aviator_ 18 January 2021 19: 06
                +5
                Do not tolerate! The barricades are waiting for you!

                Azef's business lives and wins!
          4. Undecim
            Undecim 18 January 2021 13: 05
            +7
            Do you believe that they will gorge themselves, the legend of the schema hussar?
          5. Svarog
            Svarog 18 January 2021 15: 26
            +11
            Quote: kalibr
            Previously, hospitals were also built. Over time, when they are full, they will understand. Not them, so their children, grandchildren ...

            Thirty years ago I thought so too, now I understand that their appetite is immeasurable, the father is full, the son is so hungry .. and so on the family tree ..
        2. Vladimir1155
          Vladimir1155 19 January 2021 12: 49
          -4
          Quote: Undecim
          Or a hospital is not so charitable

          the hospital is a godly business, but unfortunately in a healthy body there is not always a healthy mind, and if the mind is not healthy, then life is unhealthy, vodka, smoking, overeating (not keeping fasts), violation of marital fidelity, fornication, and now the person has become a guest of the hospital. ... after all, I didn't want to go to the temple, they would have taught him there. If the soul is healthy, then there are fewer diseases, then there would be fewer hospitals
      8. prior
        prior 18 January 2021 12: 37
        +10
        You give every Christian who has money, a personal church,
        every Muslim who has money, a personal mosque,
        every Jew who has money, a personal synagogue,
        and so on ....
        Then we'll live!
        Believers become aggressive as members of sexual minorities.
        But what about atheists?
        1. Flooding
          Flooding 18 January 2021 12: 45
          -5
          Quote: prior
          Believers become aggressive

          Please give an example of aggression.
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. astepanov
            astepanov 19 January 2021 12: 44
            +7
            Have you heard about the society of Orthodox activists? And about the threats to set fire to cinemas? And about attempts to push through a law banning the sale of telescopes? And about the attacks on unwanted directors, screenwriters by believers? What about the creep in creationism? There is both aggression and extremism - the official church dissociates itself from them in words, but in deeds ...
            1. Flooding
              Flooding 19 January 2021 13: 04
              -6
              Quote: astepanov
              Have you heard about the society of Orthodox activists? And about the threats to set fire to cinemas? And about attempts to push through a law banning the sale of telescopes? And about attacks on undesirable directors, screenwriters by believers? ... There is aggression and extremism - the official church dissociates itself from them in words, but in deeds ...

              Make the deal. What's in practice?
              And what about cinemas and telescopes?
              Someone called the cinema and threatened to set fire to the name of the patriarch?
              What the hell are you putting together here?
              And this is about aggressive believers?
              1. astepanov
                astepanov 19 January 2021 15: 22
                +2
                Quote: Flood
                Make the deal. What's in practice?
                And what about cinemas and telescopes?

                Google in your hands: look for "Orthodox activists", "Forty forties", "Christian state - Holy Russia". All of them are under the wing of the Russian Orthodox Church.
                1. Flooding
                  Flooding 19 January 2021 15: 34
                  -6
                  Quote: astepanov
                  All of them are under the wing of the Russian Orthodox Church.

                  No, sorry. No proof - no guilt. Go to the square.
        2. andreykolesov123
          andreykolesov123 19 January 2021 17: 18
          -1
          Quote: prior
          every Jew who has money, a personal synagogue,

          with a ticket to the teeth and nah hauza to Israel.
      9. The leader of the Redskins
        The leader of the Redskins 18 January 2021 12: 38
        +4
        Eh, Vyacheslav Olegovich ... Hello. Here is the author describes the beauty of the Yaroslavl region. My mother is from there. From the same area. And in the same area, almost in the neighborhood, there is the village of Nesterovo. Tiny, endangered. And it contains the ruins of a temple. As far back as I can remember, they are in this state. Both under the USSR and under the Russian Federation.
        And hundreds of them in Russia. So it turns out that we "do not keep what we have, having lost we cry." We build in a new way, as we want ...
        And when that and those churches someone built and people said: - Good!
        1. Simargl
          Simargl 18 January 2021 13: 21
          +7
          Quote: Leader of the Redskins
          And it contains the ruins of a temple. As long as I can remember, they are in this state. Both under the USSR and under the Russian Federation.
          There are a few questions:
          1 - why did the bloody red-bellies let it go and not blow it up?
          2 - how many congregations are there for this temple?
          3 - why doesn't the congregation want to spend money on restoration?
          1. Sergej1972
            Sergej1972 18 January 2021 13: 47
            +1
            In the village where my mother lives, they tried to blow up the church, but it didn't work out. They thought, did not try to blow up again, they simply destroyed the belfry and the temple was converted into a granary. The temple has not been restored until now. Probably, they will not restore it. There are few inhabitants left, for the most part they are not rich, and they are not particularly religious. If necessary, you can visit a functioning temple ten kilometers away. Although, if the state or the ROC is restored at its own expense, no one, of course, will be against it. What is surprising is the excellent quality of the bricks and masonry. Not a single crack, and the temple was built in the 19th century. It seems to me that now such high-quality bricks are not made.
            1. Simargl
              Simargl 18 January 2021 13: 54
              +7
              Quote: Sergej1972
              It seems to me that now such high-quality bricks are not made.
              Now they make any quality. The price of a brick, think about it, differs by 5 times (this is just the one that I was interested in)!
              Those that are cheap are the dream of a beginner karateka.
              But it didn't work out - the walls are probably thick.
            2. astepanov
              astepanov 19 January 2021 12: 48
              +3
              Quote: Sergej1972
              The temple has not been restored until now.

              Something tells me: there was a club, a library, a hospital (or at least a paramedic station) in that village. But weeping only for the temple, for which no one grieved for half a century. Strange, isn't it? And so - throughout Russia. Here it is, life-giving propaganda, what is doing to people! No need for hospitals and schools, give us a temple!
              1. Flooding
                Flooding 19 January 2021 13: 32
                -4
                Quote: astepanov
                Something tells me: there was a club, a library, a hospital in that village

                The club usually holds on to the last. Movies, dances are always in demand.
                Why oppose one to the other?
              2. Sergej1972
                Sergej1972 19 January 2021 15: 00
                0
                I am not happy or sad. My attitude is rather neutral. In her village (I can no longer call him my own, for my native is another village, from where we moved when I was a teenager, and I myself have been living in the city for more than thirty years, taking into account my university studies), a club, a library, FAPs operate and have never been closed. True, people stopped going to the library. In order to somehow report, the librarian is forced to record a mass of false visitors. I am among the active readers, although I visit the village at most once every one and a half to two months.) True, sometimes in the summer, I really took books to read.
        2. Vadim237
          Vadim237 18 January 2021 18: 22
          0
          There are thousands of abandoned churches in Russia.
          1. Svarog
            Svarog 18 January 2021 22: 42
            +5
            Quote: Vadim237
            There are thousands of abandoned churches in Russia.

            As well as villages .. and soon cities ..
            1. Sergej1972
              Sergej1972 19 January 2021 15: 12
              0
              My father, being the director of a state farm, in the 70-80s. fulfilled the orders of the party district committee on "unpromising" villages. They did not build housing, did not repair the roads to them, closed primary schools, etc. State farm houses were built exclusively on the central estate, and the inhabitants of small villages lived exclusively in their own houses. Tractor drivers and drivers living in these villages were "recommended" to leave tractors and cars overnight in the engine yard on the central estate. True, I will say that relatives who moved from small villages to the central estates of collective and state farms did not regret it at all.
              On the other hand, the process of reducing the number of small rural settlements is natural. The people left them very actively from the 50-60s. Partly they left for the cities, for the construction of the national economy, partly for the central estates of collective farms and state farms or in villages in which branches of state farms were located (they included such structural divisions).
              As far as I remember, in large collective and state farms sometimes, in addition to the central estate, one or two more settlements were relatively developed, often these were the centers of collective farms that were abolished during enlargement.
          2. Sergej1972
            Sergej1972 19 January 2021 15: 14
            0
            Not everything needs to be restored, just as religious buildings. The rural population has decreased many times over. And the level of religiosity of the villagers should not be exaggerated. It seems to me that now the number of churches both in cities and in rural areas is sufficient.
            1. Simargl
              Simargl 19 January 2021 15: 48
              0
              Quote: Sergej1972
              It seems to me that now the number of churches both in cities and in rural areas is sufficient.
              It seems to me that this is a kind of advertising (you can probably call it aggressive), because the buildings look rich (about beauty, it's like with felt-tip pens, and with majesty, almost all temples sell Okhta, for example)
        3. Vladimir1155
          Vladimir1155 19 January 2021 12: 51
          -4
          without a temple, neither a city nor a village is worth ... first they destroyed the temple, then they themselves died out ... the logic is depressing, but is visible in half of the Russian villages
      10. Valerikk
        Valerikk 18 January 2021 12: 59
        +12
        Quote: kalibr
        In our Penza region, one person is building a church. Yes, he has money. And that's why the church is very beautiful. And it's nice to look at her. And remember ... yes, the commandments. It would be worth building for that alone, huh?

        I believe that if a person is a believer, then the commandments should always be remembered, and not remembered about them, seeing a beautiful church.
      11. Sentinel-vs
        Sentinel-vs 18 January 2021 13: 08
        +13
        And in our area the billionaire Tetyukhin the last ten years of his life and practically all his personal funds 3.3 billion rubles. invested in the construction of a medical center in Nizhny Tagil, which provides treatment to residents of the entire Sverdlovsk region on the basis of compulsory medical insurance, i.e. at the expense of the state. This investment is far more beneficial to the community than building churches.
        1. Simargl
          Simargl 18 January 2021 13: 23
          0
          Quote: Sentinel-vs
          in our area the billionaire Tetyukhin the last ten years of his life and practically all his personal funds 3.3 billion rubles. invested in the construction of a medical center in Nizhny Tagil
          Apparently, he doesn't go to church, like an inveterate atheist, but he sins in life?
          It will not help: those who have helped - will grind!
          1. Sergej1972
            Sergej1972 18 January 2021 13: 51
            +6
            He's already dead. But he was really respected by many.
        2. kalibr
          kalibr 18 January 2021 13: 24
          -4
          Quote: Sentinel-vs
          billionaire Tetyukhin

          And they say they won't be full ...
          1. Undecim
            Undecim 18 January 2021 13: 30
            +9
            There is always an exception that confirms the rule.
        3. bober1982
          bober1982 18 January 2021 13: 28
          +4
          Quote: Sentinel-vs
          This investment is far more beneficial to the community than building churches.

          Not exactly, it cannot be called an investment.
          ....... he said to him, sell your property and give it to the poor; and you will have treasure in heaven.
          1. Simargl
            Simargl 18 January 2021 14: 32
            +7
            Quote: bober1982
            Not exactly, it cannot be called an investment.
            Why? Even for a businessman, the construction of a medical facility can be an investment. workers will get sick less and work more productively. For a small businessman - to invest in medical examination and all kinds of resorts.
            1. bober1982
              bober1982 18 January 2021 14: 40
              +1
              So, Vladislav Valentinovich, he gave everything to help those in need, what kind of investments can we talk about.
              1. Simargl
                Simargl 18 January 2021 14: 55
                +4
                Quote: bober1982
                I gave everything to help those in need, what kind of investments can we talk about.
                To future generations.
      12. Lannan Shi
        Lannan Shi 18 January 2021 15: 13
        +13
        Quote: kalibr
        ... And remember ... yes, the commandments.

        It is worth remembering the commandments simply, in life, and not without looking at the church. I just remembered that greed is a mortal sin, like vanity, by the way, and did not get carried away with them. But when Mr. "with the money" builds a church, comes to its construction, looks, remembers the commandments, and then sits down in the auto-industry sample of a vanity fair, and goes to cut another millionaire ... Dear, this is banal paganism. Commodity-money relations, well, or barter with God. You to me (forgot about my art), I to you (the church with gilding). Banal paganism with sacrifices. To Christianity not related in any way.
        1. Aviator_
          Aviator_ 18 January 2021 19: 03
          +5
          Dear, do not argue with the professional Marxist-Leninist, which is the caliber. He always knows where the big money is, and you tell him about Christian ideas.
      13. The comment was deleted.
      14. Aviator_
        Aviator_ 18 January 2021 19: 01
        +3
        Yes, he has money. And that's why the church is very beautiful. And it's nice to look at her. And remember ... yes, the commandments.

        And was the money made by righteous labor? Rather, with this remake, he tries to calm the remnants of his conscience.
      15. Narak-zempo
        Narak-zempo 19 January 2021 09: 22
        -1
        Quote: kalibr
        Yes, he has money. And that's why the church is very beautiful

        Just amazing logic.
        Quote: kalibr
        And remember ... yes, about the commandments

        Everyone will remember his own. For example, about the trees that used to grow in this place.
        Or that people are "in the money" as a result of the appropriation of surplus value - someone's unpaid labor.
    2. lis-ik
      lis-ik 18 January 2021 12: 27
      +22
      Quote: Valerikk
      There will soon be more temples than schools and hospitals put together .. Why so many?

      Under Putin, 4 schools, 1 hospital and 2 factories per day were reduced in Russia, and 3 times a day were added. The count is not mine, I took statistics from the Internet. I have nothing against faith, but they are trying to pay off the Last Judgment, and they are building with our money.
      1. vitvit123
        vitvit123 18 January 2021 12: 38
        -15%
        You can write whatever you want on the fence ..
        1. lis-ik
          lis-ik 18 January 2021 12: 56
          +15
          Quote: vitvit123
          You can write whatever you want on the fence ..

          These are Rosstat data for 2019. and data for 1999. You can count yourself.
      2. Flooding
        Flooding 18 January 2021 12: 42
        +4
        Quote: lis-ik
        took statistics from the Internet

        Choose another, not so convenient "statistics" for you.
        This is more than eleven thousand temples in ten years.
        Ay yes Putin))
        1. lis-ik
          lis-ik 18 January 2021 12: 57
          +2
          Read carefully. I gave above where and what.
          1. Flooding
            Flooding 18 January 2021 13: 07
            +1
            Quote: lis-ik
            These are Rosstat data for 2019. and data for 1999. You can count yourself.

            I beg you to provide a link.
            4 schools a day. 1 hospital. Factory, also 2.
            This is the most interesting information!
            This Rosstat has completely gotten out of hand, compromises Putin, you know.
            You didn't think you could get off so easily, did you?
            1. lis-ik
              lis-ik 18 January 2021 17: 38
              +7
              https://zen.yandex.ru/media/burckina_new/utochnennaia-formula-itogov-pravleniia-putina-za-20-let-minus-4-shkoly-v-den-5fdeee3c27ce98245a28ff46?&utm_campaign=dbr
              This link is to the article, the data of Rosstat are given in it in free access. The article contains graphs with explanations.
              1. Flooding
                Flooding 18 January 2021 17: 51
                -1
                Quote: lis-ik
                This link is to the article, the data of Rosstat are given in it in free access. The article contains graphs with explanations.

                For the number of churches, the figure is given only for 2019.
                Based on what data, 21600 churches have been added over 20 years, I don't understand.
                There is also practically nothing about factories and hospitals in this article.
                It seems like a hint to the reader: I give a tooth. Do not trust? Search on gsk.ru
      3. Olgovich
        Olgovich 18 January 2021 13: 11
        -15%
        Quote: lis-ik
        Under Putin, 4 schools were reduced in Russia,

        in just 20 years 1969-1989, Russia had closed 44 thousand from schools, i.e. more than HALF. Of the remaining schools, 10% had no electricity, 90% had sewerage systems, and most were in disrepair. The number of social objects has also decreased by a THIRD.

        And yes, for 30 years (1959-1989) from the face of Russia HALF of Russian settlements disappeared (150 thousand)
        1. Nasrat
          Nasrat 18 January 2021 13: 25
          -12%
          You shouldn't write this to them ... it's useless ... Even on the eve of the feast of the Baptism of the Lord, they smell of evil and hatred.

          When Lunacharsky, Lenin's People's Commissar for Education, was falsely informed that the Red Army had damaged the Kremlin and the Cathedral of St. Basil the Blessed - “A terrible, irreparable misfortune! - he exclaimed then. “The people in the struggle for power mutilated Moscow, their glorious capital ... It is indescribably scary to be a commissar of education in the days of a fierce, merciless, destructive war and spontaneous destruction.” And he resigned ... Lenin persuaded his comrade not to resign ...
        2. kalibr
          kalibr 18 January 2021 13: 27
          -10%
          But next to Penza a whole new city Sputnik has grown up, and everyone is building and building. Three new neighborhoods ... And where do people come from ...
          1. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 18 January 2021 14: 13
            +8
            Quote: kalibr
            And where do people come from ...

            Heh, at my entrance, half of the apartments are rented out.
          2. BAI
            BAI 18 January 2021 18: 26
            +5
            And where do people come from.

            So how many times have they said - from those "disappeared" villages. The rich have gone to better houses, while the poor are moving into the vacated cheap living space. There is no work or social and cultural life in the village. And the city has everything. The natural process of labor migration during the industrialization of society. From the 19th century it began, according to the paintings of Levitan. None of the scribes for the disappeared villages live in the village. Everyone prefers to suffer through the village out of urban comfort. A good division of labor: you there in the village bury yourself in manure, I will suffer for you in the city (best of all in a restaurant).
            1. kalibr
              kalibr 18 January 2021 20: 29
              -6
              Quote: BAI
              None of the scribes for the disappeared villages live in the village. Everyone prefers to suffer through the village out of urban comfort.

              ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++
        3. Stirbjorn
          Stirbjorn 18 January 2021 13: 56
          +15
          Quote: Olgovich
          in total, in 20 years 1969-1989, 44 thousand schools were closed in Russia

          You forgot to point out that all the schools, undoubtedly, were built under the kings, well, electricity and running water were installed at the same time. And then the anti-Soviet picture did not come out so bright hi
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 18 January 2021 15: 16
            -12%
            Quote: Stirbjorn
            You forgot to point out that all schools were undoubtedly built under the kings

            This is please: under the tsars within the borders of the RSFSR was 81 thousand schools , at the end of the Bolsheviks, in 1991, total 67 тыс.
            Quote: Stirbjorn
            And then the anti-Soviet picture did not come out so bright

            And then please: in 1991 (artificial intelligence has long existed, the Internet is working with might and main) d, in TEN PERCENTAGE p. schools in Russia there was NO ELECTRICITY, i.e. children were trained with a kerosene stove, yes.

            And 90% ran into any cold, out of need, into the yard. hi
            1. Foul skeptic
              Foul skeptic 18 January 2021 15: 43
              +6
              under the tsars, there were 81 thousand schools within the borders of the RSFSR; at the end of the Bolsheviks, in 1991, only 67 thousand.

              And?
              The number of teachers in these schools, please write. We only recently talked about this. And so, again.
              And 90% ran into any cold, out of need, into the yard.

              That is, you are making a statement that in 60 schools of the RSFSR out of 225 amenities were in the yard?
              Ay-yay-yay, how ugly.
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 18 January 2021 15: 52
                -11%
                Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                And?

                What is "I"? Challenge the numbers? No? AND?
                Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                That is, you are making a statement that in 60 schools of the RSFSR out of 225 amenities were in the yard?
                Ay-yay-yay, how ugly.

                I confirm the statement that in 44 thousand s. schools Russia out of 48 thousand -convenience-in the yard.

                Ay-yay-yay. how inconvenient (you) did it!
                1. Foul skeptic
                  Foul skeptic 18 January 2021 15: 56
                  +4
                  In fact, the inconvenience is that there were not 48 thousand schools in Russia. You yourself wrote
                  at the end of the Bolsheviks, in 1991, only 67 thousand

                  Challenge the numbers?

                  I don’t dispute the meaningless comparisons.
                  1. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 18 January 2021 16: 06
                    -8
                    Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                    In fact, the inconvenience is that there were not 48 thousand schools in Russia. You yourself wrote
                    at the end of the Bolsheviks, in 1991, only 67 thousand

                    The convenience is that there were exactly 48 thousand rural schools.
                    And in them was what was quoted above:
                    in TEN PERCENTAGE from. Russian schools There was NO ELECTRICITY, i.e. children were trained with a kerosene stove, yes.

                    And 90% ran into any cold, out of need, into the yard
                    Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                    I don’t dispute the meaningless comparisons.

                    It is pointless to dispute the indisputable
                    1. Foul skeptic
                      Foul skeptic 18 January 2021 16: 12
                      +3
                      Convenience is that there were exactly 48 thousand rural schools
                      And the inconvenience is that in this text of yours there is not a word about it
                      in TEN PERCENTAGE with. Russian schools


                      It is pointless to dispute.

                      Yes, to dispute meaningless phrases is pointless)))
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 18 January 2021 21: 08
                        -4
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        Convenience is that there were exactly 48 thousand rural schools
                        And the inconvenience is that in this text of yours there is not a word about it
                        in TEN PERCENTAGE with. Russian schools


                        WHAT to you .... does not reach in the phrase:
                        in TEN PERCENTAGE with. schools in Russia there was NO ELECTRICITY
                        ? , a?belay
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        Yes, arguing meaningless phrases is pointless

                        indisputable, cited by me the figure it is pointless to dispute: once again, can you? No!
            2. BAI
              BAI 18 January 2021 18: 50
              +6
              under the tsars within the borders of the RSFSR there were 81 thousand schools

              1. 84000. In the entire empire (this is with Poland and Finland).
              2. And there are only 9 universities with a total of 22000 students.
              On 1907 year.
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 18 January 2021 21: 09
                -6
                Quote: BAI
                under the tsars within the borders of the RSFSR there were 81 thousand schools

                1. 84000. In the entire empire (this is with Poland and Finland).
                2. And there are only 9 universities with a total of 22000 students.
                On 1907 year.

                You are ignorant: in Russia it was 130 thousand schools (DIN Volkov mentions the number of 140 thousand schools.)
                1. BAI
                  BAI 18 January 2021 23: 11
                  +3
                  The official Russian edition of 1907 knows better how many schools there were in Russia than a certain Volkov.
                  1. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 19 January 2021 08: 28
                    -5
                    Quote: BAI
                    The official Russian edition of 1907 knows better how many schools there were in Russia than a certain Volkov.

                    You cannot add and read.

                    And yes, in Russia, BEFORE your disasters with education, 4-5 thousand schools were commissioned per year from 1907 to 1914
                  2. Foul skeptic
                    Foul skeptic 19 January 2021 16: 26
                    -1
                    The point, I think, is simply that 1907 and 1913 (when there were 130 educational institutions of all forms and types in the empire) were more than one year. Therefore, the numbers are different.
        4. Foul skeptic
          Foul skeptic 18 January 2021 14: 26
          +4
          In just 20 years 1969-1989, 44 thousand were closed from schools in Russia, i.e. more than HALF. Of the remaining schools, 10% had no electricity, 90% had sewerage systems, and most were in disrepair. The number of social objects has also decreased by a THIRD.

          And yes, over 30 years (1959-1989) HALF of the settlements of Russia (150 thousand) disappeared from the face of Russia

          Andrei, hello!
          The last time you cited such a text, you referred to Denisova.
          Have you read Denisova's monograph? ))
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 18 January 2021 14: 46
            -8
            Quote: Nefarious skeptic
            Andrei, hello!
            The last time you cited such a text, you referred to Denisova.

            Hello Timur!

            You are writing a lie: I am on Denisova with THIS information:
            And yes, over 30 years (1959-1989) HALF of the settlements of Russia (150 thousand) disappeared from the face of Russia
            , I have not referenced. This is census data

            The schools are out of it.
            Quote: Nefarious skeptic
            Have you read Denisova's monograph? ))

            ((
            1. Foul skeptic
              Foul skeptic 18 January 2021 15: 06
              +6
              You are writing a lie

              Yes, I was misled by the construction of the text. You just turned the data on schools in the Non-Black Earth Region into data for the whole of Russia. And since she also has about the change in the number of settlements in the Non-Black Earth Region, I thought it was also from there.
              ((

              Did it upset you that I doubted what you read? Excuse me. I didn't want to offend.
              But then it is all the more incomprehensible why you use the above information from the book in past or current disputes. I can show you, page by page, that the information you supply in this way distorts the content of the monograph.
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 18 January 2021 15: 45
                -10%
                Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                Yes, I was misled by the construction of the text. Just you data on schools of the Non-Black Earth Region were turned into data throughout Russia.

                Again, not true: the data on schools is given precisely throughout Russia, like Denisova
                1. Foul skeptic
                  Foul skeptic 18 January 2021 15: 52
                  +2
                  Really?
                  You have this text
                  Of the remaining schools, 10% had no electricity, 90% had sewerage systems, and most were in disrepair.

                  is this not school data?
                  Please provide a page indicating where Denisova has it about all of Russia?
                  1. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 18 January 2021 16: 13
                    -8
                    Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                    Really?
                    You have this text
                    Of the remaining schools, 10% had no electricity, 90% had sewerage systems, and most were in disrepair.

                    is this not school data?

                    Why else?
                    Please provide a page indicating where Denisova has it about all of Russia?

                    I will not give you 230 pages.

                    Provide a page from Denisova-with refuting information, please.
                    1. Foul skeptic
                      Foul skeptic 18 January 2021 16: 23
                      +3
                      No, she actually has it written. And for the person who read, there is no problem finding the right place. It took me 3 minutes. I just wanted to make sure that your sources of information are still not primary sources, but Internet dumpsters. Because on the Internet there are only the lines you quoted. And never what Denisova wrote that the ongoing processes were independent of the government and natural. And that the authorities did their best to prevent the flow from the countryside to the cities. With a description of what it was. That is why I suggested that you parse the monograph by page.

                      PS Don't be fooled by the first sentence of my post. Denisova's source for these figures is indicated - Izvestia newspaper for 1989. And in the newspaper, in turn, there is no verification of the data given by the newspaper. In this regard, I would like to recall how you mention the abundance of references in it as an indicator of the "quality" of this monograph. The vast majority of which are in fact a magazine binder.
                      1. Aviator_
                        Aviator_ 18 January 2021 19: 22
                        +3
                        Well, finally, everything became clear with the Soviet schools, otherwise I seriously began to think that I studied somewhere in another country, and not in provincial Orenburg. And to refer to Izvestia in 1989 is the same as to Ogonyok of the same time - this is a classic perestroika delirium.
                      2. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 18 January 2021 21: 52
                        -8
                        Quote: Aviator_
                        Well, finally, everything became clear with the Soviet schools, otherwise I seriously began to think that I studied somewhere in another country, and not in provincial Orenburg. And to refer to Izvestia in 1989 is the same as to Ogonyok of the same time - this is a classic perestroika delirium.

                        There is a FACT that you cannot refute.

                        Only a complete ignoramus does not know that in the village. schools "convenience" were in the yard in 90% of them ..
                      3. Aviator_
                        Aviator_ 18 January 2021 22: 21
                        +6
                        I also visited rural schools. Sol-Iletskiy and Kurmanaevskiy districts of the Orenburg region, mid-60s. The sewerage system is standard, urban. So the Romanian ignoramus should learn a little more. By the way, did you live in the USSR in general, or do you only know everything from Izvestia and Ogonyok in 1989?
                      4. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 19 January 2021 08: 24
                        -7
                        Quote: Aviator_
                        I also visited rural schools. Sol-Iletskiy and Kurmanaevskiy districts of the Orenburg region, mid-60s. The sewerage system is standard, urban.

                        Russia, hack a knot on your forehead, much larger than the Sol-Iletsky and Kurmanayevsky districts of the Orenburg region.

                        Standard sewerage - urban - assumes Treatment facilities, ignoramus. Name specific schools where you have been and where they had ... in 1960 Mr. fool lol

                        You should also know that in general, the provision of villages with sewage systems in the USSR was 19%. Even in the city, 20% ran to the street out of need.
                        Quote: Aviator_
                        So the Romanian ignoramus should learn a little more.

                        It was YOUR power that turned Russia into Moldova, Ukraine, etc.
                        Quote: Aviator_
                        ... By the way, did you live in the USSR in general, or do you only know everything from Izvestia and Ogonyok in 1989?

                        Izvestia is the organ of the Soviet government, by the way, yes:
                        JOURNALS OF THE COUNCILS OF PEOPLE'S DEPUTIES OF THE USSR lol
                        Or who "unbending" there stooped, captured? lol

                        He lived, yes, but he did not learn the truth about the country from your thoroughly lying idols who lied for 70 years without end of the land: about the multimillion deaths from your continuous hunger strikes in the 1920s-30s and 40s, about hundreds of thousands of people shot in one year 1937-1938, about a MILLION children exiled in the 1930s, etc.
                      5. Aviator_
                        Aviator_ 19 January 2021 08: 32
                        +3
                        Hey, Romanian, are you seriously sure that in the late 80s we had Soviet power? How is it in Romania, where are you broadcasting from, I don't know. Sewage treatment facilities, of course, were, from the toilet bowls into the cesspool only in Romania everything poured out. You should present a snapshot of the sewage treatment plant in the village. Tabachny Bakhchisarai district of the Crimean region, or will you manage?
                      6. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 19 January 2021 10: 37
                        -6
                        Quote: Aviator_
                        Hey, Romanian, are you seriously sure that in the late 80s we had Soviet power?

                        Hear lol , and where did your .... all the achievements of the Bolsheviks failed? belay request lol
                        Shaw, even the despicable cowardly weak Trotskyists jokingly bent them? AND? lol
                        Quote: Aviator_
                        How is it in Romania, where are you broadcasting from, I don't know.

                        From Russia, which YOU cut in Ukraine, etc.
                        Quote: Aviator_
                        Wastewater treatment plants, of course, were, from toilets only in Romania everything poured into a cesspool.

                        lol laughing laughing
                        To tears, yes ...

                        So WHERE are the addresses of schools and their "cleaning" 1960), eh, lie? lol

                        You're lying, like all of you have always done: even in 1990, only 19% of residential buildings in villages had sewerage systems, and only ......3 (THREE!) Percentа rural settlements of Russia had sewerage systems. -( Russian statistical yearbook. 2004. Stat. Sat / Rosstat. - M., 2004).

                        Even today, 95 percent of rural settlements and even 20 cities of the country do not have treatment facilities at all

                        Do you hear funny? lol
                      7. Foul skeptic
                        Foul skeptic 19 January 2021 16: 49
                        0
                        even in 1990, only 19% of residential buildings in villages had sewerage systems, and only ...... 3 (THREE!) percent of rural settlements in Russia had sewerage systems. - (Russian statistical yearbook. 2004. Stat. Collection / Rosstat. - M., 2004).

                        Table 7.52 not 19% of residential buildings. The percentage in the table was calculated on the basis of the area, not the pieces.
                        You have modestly paid little attention to table 7.53.
                        They would have taken it and told the opponent that in 1991 the share of villages with sewerage was 4%, and in 2003 it remained the same. For some reason, it seems that by 2020 there have been no big advances in this regard. Which by the way, something terrible, I personally do not think. Everything is understandable.
                        And table 7.22 is generally gold, not a table. It was a good collection, these tables seem to be missing in the current ones.
                      8. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 20 January 2021 09: 38
                        -1
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        Table 7.52 not 19% of residential buildings. The percentage in the table was calculated on the basis of the area, not the pieces.

                        19% of the housing stock in villages. What is the fundamental difference that got you stuck in?

                        The fact is that the person stupidly lied about "Standard city sewage" in the village. schools in 1960
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        in 1991 the share of villages with sewerage was 4%

                        3% percent of rural settlements in Russia had a sewerage system in 1990 - (Russian Statistical Yearbook. 2004. Stat. Collection / Rosstat. - M., 2004).

                        And this is a complete disgrace to the authorities.
                      9. Foul skeptic
                        Foul skeptic 20 January 2021 10: 19
                        -1
                        What is the fundamental difference

                        In terminology, in the final result.

                        And this is a complete disgrace to the authorities.

                        In 2003 - 4% Is this a success of the authorities? laughing
                        You simply do not realize that the village has no central sewerage system, this is normal.
                        And give such arguments as an argument against the authorities ... well, I don't even know
                      10. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 20 January 2021 11: 53
                        -2
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        In terminology, in the final result.

                        There is no difference: or have you fundamentally ... increased the number of people provided with sewage systems? lol
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic

                        In 2003 - 4% Is this a success of the authorities?


                        Certainly: less has not become. With your gender of Russia (NP) disappeared, with the toilets together.
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        You simply do not realize that the village has no central sewerage system, this is normal.

                        You have it from complete ignorance, yes.
                        I was also involved in the construction of VC in villages, justification of projects, etc., and yes, find out: the lack of sewerage is a very painful issue (especially with the existence of a water supply system), up to mass diseases of the population with hepatitis B, C and other nasty things.
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        And give such arguments as an argument against the authorities ... well, I don't even know

                        see above.

                        PS look how it was in the euro countries. Maybe you will understand
                      11. Foul skeptic
                        Foul skeptic 20 January 2021 14: 19
                        -1
                        I was also involved in the construction of VC in villages, justification of projects, etc., and yes, find out: the lack of sewerage is a very painful issue (especially with the existence of a water supply system), up to mass diseases of the population with hepatitis B, C and other nasty things.

                        It seems to me that you are confusing something. Would you like to say that you did a CENTRAL water supply and sewerage project in villages with a population of 15-25 people?
                        Certainly: less has not become. With your gender of Russia (NP) disappeared, with the toilets together.

                        They are guilty! Clear laughing
                        "Ours" (we will consider that I accept your description) did not drive for their local blunders on the "front men". They were looking for those responsible within themselves. Therefore, in addition to misses and successes were.
                        PS look how it was in the euro countries. Maybe you will understand

                        Tell me the euro area where the share of the rural population is growing. Give me a euro area with 88 thousand villages with a population of up to 50 people. Write the average distance between settlements.
                      12. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 20 January 2021 16: 22
                        -2
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        It seems to me that you are confusing something. Want to say, what did you do in the villages with a population of 15-25 people a CENTRAL water supply and sewerage project?

                        and they did it. What's the problem?

                        For such, they made a central water supply (but also local) and local sewerage systems with bio-treatment facilities for each house - clean water at the exit.
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        They are guilty! Clear
                        "Ours" (we will consider that I accept your description) did not drive for their local blunders on the "front men". They were looking for those responsible within themselves. Therefore, in addition to misses and successes were.

                        Against the background of crime, success is negligible.
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        Tell me the euro area where the share of the rural population is growing. Give me a euro area with 88 thousand villages with a population of up to 50 people. Write the average distance between settlements.

                        ALL countries in Europe have VC villages.
                      13. Foul skeptic
                        Foul skeptic 20 January 2021 16: 53
                        -1
                        It seems to me that you do not know how to read: I have written that this is a sore point for villages. About quantity - no words.

                        Do not forget to transpose the conversation to its source - why is it normal for tens of thousands of microvillages that they will not have a central sewage system.

                        For such people they did ... local sewerage systems with biological treatment facilities

                        For a village for 15-25 people? Or for a former village where wealthy people bought up land, built estates and used it for recreational purposes? And you did for a certain resident's cottage? Or one per cottage village? I just want to understand for myself the approximate composition of the installation, if we want to deal with you with the economic efficiency of treatment plants for microvillages.
                        ALL countries in Europe have VC villages.

                        Russia also has villages with running water and sewerage. What's new said? )
                      14. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 21 January 2021 08: 28
                        -2
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        Do not forget to transpose the conversation to its source - why is it normal for tens of thousands of microvillages that they will not have a central sewage system.

                        There is no such "source": initially it was a deceitful urban sewage system of rural schools in 1960
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        For a village for 15-25 people?

                        For small settlements, for EVERY house, a small OS 2x2x2 m from the PP, it works by itself, almost does not consume electricity,
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        Russia also has villages with running water and sewerage. What's new said?

                        In Germany, about 1% of the rural population is without sewage.
                      15. Foul skeptic
                        Foul skeptic 22 January 2021 16: 15
                        0
                        originally it was about the deceitful urban sewage system of rural schools in 1960

                        All your inconsistencies with your opponent are from the fact that instead of using normal technical language, the discussion is conducted in colloquial and everyday language.
                        There is no type of engineering systems "urban sewerage", there are centralized or autonomous systems.
                        Therefore, it is not unusual for a rural school to have an internal sewerage system, while the village does not have a centralized external sewerage system, but there will be treatment facilities.
                        In 1960, a rural school could well have been, speaking colloquially - an internal sewage system "like in a city" and an external one - "like in a village."
                        And speaking in normal language - either a backlash closet or a drain station with pumping to a sewage field or removal to a sewage treatment plant. Here are live rural schools based on a standard project of 1953 with just such an option.


                        For small settlements, for EVERY house, a small OS 2x2x2 m from the PP, it works by itself, almost does not consume electricity,

                        What I wanted to hear. And back to where we have all the fuss:
                        On what basis is the state charged with the lack of a centralized sewage system for micro-villages? If it is economically feasible to have an autonomous house-building system, which is the concern of the household itself, if the village is already existing.
                        In Germany, about 1% of the rural population is without sewage.

                        So what? And indicate the source. It is not clear what is meant by "no sewer". Their ecologists simply will not allow this.
                      16. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 22 January 2021 20: 22
                        -3
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        All your inconsistencies with your opponent are from the fact that instead of using normal technical language, the discussion is conducted in colloquial and everyday language.

                        nonsense - we understood each other perfectly
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        1960 at a rural school could well have been, speaking colloquially - internal sewerage "like in a city" and external - "like in a village"

                        almost 100% could not be: in 1990 9% and in 1960 there is nothing to talk about
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        senizational field or removal to treatment facilities. Here are live rural schools based on a standard project in 1953 with just this option.

                        Where does the water come from? fairy tales. And reality is smelly smelly smelly
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        On what basis is the state blamed for the absence centralized sewerage systems for micro-villages? If it is economically feasible to have an autonomous house-building system, which is the concern of the household itself, if the village is already existing.

                        any sewerage.

                        ensuring health protection-state care.
                      17. Foul skeptic
                        Foul skeptic 25 January 2021 12: 55
                        0
                        nonsense - we understood each other perfectly

                        And you can't say this by correspondence, only mutual reproaches))
                        almost 100% could not be: in 1990 9% and in 1960 there is nothing to talk about

                        Nobody talks about 100%, if only because most of the schools were of earlier construction.
                        Where does the water come from? fairy tales.

                        In large villages (in which there were correspondingly large schools, as in the example above), a central water supply system was installed with a standpipe water intake for estates and pumping for public buildings (bathhouse, school, etc.).

                        Here is the floor plan of the schools, photographs of the facades of which I gave in the previous message. I have allocated you sanitary facilities in red. Waste from them fell into the outer bunkers, on the next plan of the territory I also highlight in red (the left one for the latrines of the first floor, the upper one for the latrines of the second floor).

                        In small rural schools in the 50s, of course, there was no central water supply, water for the washstand was either from a well in the school yard (if the director lived at the school), or was brought up in barrels. But for a backlash closet, a drain is not needed. Here is a typical design for a wooden rural school in 1950 for 40 students. Highlighted in red two separate latrines in the school building.

                        And here, for example, the toilet of a rural school in Alsace at a similar time (1946):

                        any sewer.
                        ensuring health protection-state care.

                        And where in the world does the state in private houses in rural areas deal with sewage? It only establishes sanitary standards that the population is obliged to follow. Moreover, dry toilets without a drain and a water seal are still the absolute norm in the world.
                        Please, any European can order a ready-made one for only 2000 euros if he does not want to do it himself.
                        https://www.zo2.ch/2017/04/25/humus-composting-toilets/
                        https://trobolo.com/en/products/
                        Moreover, they are now installed in schools and kindergartens, if there is no connection to the water supply and do not see anything shameful. Here is an example of such a toilet in the 21st century in a kindergarten in the commune of Wolferschwenden (population less than 2 thousand people).

                        Here's another German country toilet.
                      18. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 25 January 2021 13: 23
                        -1
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        large schools, as in the example above) carried out a central water supply system with a stand-alone water supply for estates and pumping for public buildings (bathhouse, school, etc.).


                        Here is the floor plan of the schools, photographs of the facades of which I gave in the previous message. I have allocated you sanitary facilities in red. Waste from them fell into the outer bunkers, on the next plan of the territory I also highlight in red (the left one for the latrines of the first floor, the upper one for the latrines of the second floor).

                        There was always a lot more paperwork in the USSR: I made VC in schools built in 1970-1980 with designed toilets and showers. They had pantries, etc.

                        But in their courtyard, the houses of an unknown architect stood proudly.
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        And where in the world does the state in private houses in rural areas deal with sewage? It only establishes sanitary standards that the population is obliged to follow.

                        Yes, everywhere in large villages: he builds networks and OS, but the connection is at his own expense
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        It only establishes sanitary standards that the population is obliged to follow.

                        For NEW homes.

                        And for the old, it conducts itself
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        if there is no connection to the water supply and do not see anything shameful. Here is an example of such a toilet in the 21st century in a kindergarten in the commune of Wolferschwenden (population less than 2 thousand people)

                        kindergarten without water can not be
                      19. Foul skeptic
                        Foul skeptic 25 January 2021 16: 41
                        0
                        I made a VC in schools from 1970-1980, with designed toilets and showers. They had pantries, etc.
                        But in their courtyard, the houses of an unknown architect stood proudly.

                        Regarding the toilet in the yard, it was supposed to be, it was usually planned at approximately the same distance between the school garden and the sports ground, so that children in labor or physical education classes do not waste time going to school (in the above plan, under number 5 as once the toilet is in the yard).
                        But regarding the school of the 80s project - in what year did you make water supply and sewerage there? Can you tell me the locality?
                        Yes, everywhere in large villages: he builds networks and OS, but the connection is at his own expense

                        So in large and in our country they laid networks. Another thing is that we have small tens of thousands. You see, Andrei, you are comparing the current state of sewage in Europe with the state of half a century ago in our country. Even in the most organized country of the European Union, according to a 2001 report by the Federal Ministry for the Environment, Nature Conservation and Reactor Safety (Bundesministerium für Umwelt, Naturschutz und Reaktorsicherheit) in 1998, 6,8% of the population in Germany was not connected to the public sewer network. It would seem a little. But this is only because 3/4 of the population lives in cities. If you look at the rural population and by land, the population figures without a centralized sewage system will vary from 12% in Thuringia to 31,4% in Brandenburg. Here's another interesting point from the report:
                        When was the central water supply introduced after World War II?
                        wars in the 50s and early 60s in rural areas, there have always been separate
                        citizens who were satisfied with domestic wells, and despite the great,
                        existing with individual supply, hygiene risk
                        categorically refused to connect to public utilities. When
                        still in Germany there are cases when dramatically different
                        means oppose connection to the communal sewer
                        networks and treatment facilities, in one case even through a long
                        hunger strikes. Reasons for resistance - wastewater costs

                        And I am silent about Italy, Sicily shocked me in many ways, and no matter how much I visit, I can not get used to it.
                        For NEW homes.
                        And for the old, it conducts itself

                        Yeah, European programs like "Casa a per 1 euro" and that's why they appeared))
                        kindergarten without water can not be

                        Was in view of the wet disposal of waste products. Unsuccessfully translated the phrase "As we do not have a suitable water connection". But the convenience in the courtyard in winter for preschoolers is considered a plus in the garden avenue - this is the perfect “quiet little place”. )))
                      20. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 25 January 2021 19: 17
                        -1
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        Regarding the toilet in the yard, it was supposed to be, it was usually planned at approximately the same distance between the school garden and the sports ground, so that children in labor or physical education classes do not waste time going to school (in the above plan, under number 5 as once the toilet is in the yard).

                        I have no such plan.

                        And the toilet in the yard was instead of the built-in toilets in schools, and not in addition
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        But regarding the school of the 80s project - in what year did you make water supply and sewerage there? Can you tell me the locality?

                        2000 ,. s. Pirita
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        You see, Andrei, you are comparing the current state of sewage in Europe with the state of half a century ago in our country.
                        no, only at the same time.
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        in 1998 in Germany 6,8% were not connected

                        I saw the modern figure of 1%
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        But the convenience in the courtyard in winter for preschoolers is considered a plus in the garden avenue - this is the conditioner "quiet little place ”. )))

                        fine, yes, but it's not about hygiene.
  2. Olgovich
    Olgovich 18 January 2021 21: 39
    -4
    Quote: Nefarious skeptic
    No, she has in fact it is written.

    Naturally, I gave the exact figures from the monograph.
    They just fooled their heads with disbelief.
    Quote: Nefarious skeptic
    And for the person who read, there is no problem finding the right place.

    Exactly: it took me 1 minute - page 165. But why should I make it easier for you, I don't understand
    Quote: Nefarious skeptic
    I just wanted to make sure that your sources of information are still not primary sources, but Internet dumpsters.

    As before, it was Denisova's monograph, which I read in full, was used.
    Like Beznina

    Now name it "trash heaps" where you think I "rummaged and found these numbers.
    You can not? No!

    So you just lied , Yes negative

    Quote: Nefarious skeptic
    And never what Denisova wrote that the ongoing processes were independent of the government and natural. And that the authorities did their best to prevent the flow from the countryside to the cities. With a description of what it was. That is why I suggested that you parse the monograph by page.

    Tired: let's page by page all this nonsense of yours:
    processes were independent of the government and natural... And that power is just in every way .
    prove according to Denisova. She writes the opposite

    Just don't need me to translate it from Russian into Russian, as you like.


    Quote: Nefarious skeptic
    Don't be fooled by the first sentence of my post. Denisova's source for these figures is indicated - Izvestia newspaper for 1989. And in the newspaper, in turn, there is no verification of the data given by the newspaper.

    I deeply do not care about someone's belief-unbelief.

    There is a statement that your grumbling does not make it less reliable and cannot refute.
    Quote: Nefarious skeptic
    In this regard, I would like to recall how you mention the abundance of references in it as an indicator of the "quality" of this monograph. The vast majority of which are actually a magazine binder.

    Again lying.

    Only the beginning of links:
    P. 12; Food program of the USSR for the period up to 1990 and measures for its implementation. Materials of the May Plenum of the Central Committee of the CPSU, 1982, M., 1982. S. 85-86; True. 1989 March.

    [5] The national economy of the RSFSR in 1980 Stat. hedgehog. M., 1981.S. 175-177; The national economy of the RSFSR in 1989 Stat. hedgehog. M., 1990.S. 596-600; True. 1989 June 1; RGAE. F. 4372. Op. 66.D. 7095.L. 12-13.

    [6] The national economy of the RSFSR in 1988 Stat. hedgehog. M., 1989.S. 318-319; The national economy of the RSFSR in 1989, pp. 123, 561; Labor problems in agriculture. M., 1982.S. 43; Mashenkov V.F., Maltsev I.E. Formation and use of labor in agriculture. M., 1988.S. 140;

    [7] Russian State Archive of Social and Political History (RGASPI). F. 591. Op. 1.D. 111.L. 16.

    [8] The national economy of the RSFSR in 1988, p. 603; Tikhonov V.A., Lezina M.L. Agro-industrial complex: proportionality of development. M., 1986.S. 35.

    [9] True. 1982 October; Rural life. 1 October; Socialist industry. 1988 February; Non-black earth zone of Russia. Economic problems of agricultural development. M., 6.S. 1989.

    [10] Tikhonov V.A., Lezina M.L. Decree. op. P. 35; Labor problems in agriculture. M., 1982.S. 43; Mashenkov V.F., Maltsev N.E. Decree. op. P. 140; April 1; Lupinovich E.I. Support system for farms in unfavorable conditions in the EEC countries. M., 1990.S. 90; Economist. 1994. No. 9. P. 9; RGAE. F. 4372. Op. 66.D. 7095.L. 17-19.

    [11] RGAE. F. 4372. Op. 66.D. 7095.L. 24; F. 7486. Op. 18.D. 1858.L. 53; D. 1911.L. 90.

    [12] Komsomolskaya Pravda. 1988 March 1; True. 1988 August.

    [13] Non-black earth virgin lands of Russia. M., 1977.S. 65, 77; RGAE. F. 4372. Op. 66.D. 7081. L. 19-20, 25-27; D. 7095.L. 17.

    [14] RGASPI. F. 591. Op. 1.D. 169.L. 55.

    [15] Palman V. Unpaid debt // New world. 1984. No. 8, pp. 172, 177, 180.

    [16] The national economy of the RSFSR in 1980, pp. 175-176; The national economy of the RSFSR in 1989, pp. 497, 597-599; Non-black earth virgin lands of Russia. P. 133; RGASPI. F. 17. Op. 104. D. 782. L. 72; Op. 148. D. 370. L. 29; RGAE. F. 4372. Op. 66.D. 2328.L. 82.

    [17] The national economy of the RSFSR in 1980, pp. 174-177; The national economy of the RSFSR in 1989, pp. 596-599; Non-black earth virgin lands of Russia. S. 101-102; The concept of development of the agro-industrial complex of the Non-Black Earth Zone of the RSFSR. M., 1988.S. 3-4.

    [18] The national economy of the RSFSR in 1980, pp. 174-177; The national economy of the RSFSR in 1989, pp. 596-599.

    [19] Beznin M.A. Peasant farm in the Russian Non-Black Earth Region. 1950-1965; Vologda, 1990.S. 7-8, 10-11.

    [20] The national economy of the USSR in 1990 Stat. hedgehog. M., 1991.S. 544.

    [21] Economic sciences. 1991. No. 7.P. 101.

    [22] The national economy of the USSR in 1990, S. 484.

    [23] Ibid. S. 112.

    [24] Economy and life. 1991. No. 40. S. 15.

    [25] Economic sciences. 1991. No. 3.P. 13.

    [26] Danilov VP Agrarian reform in post-Soviet Russia (historian's view) // Where is Russia going? ... Alternatives of social development. M., 1994. Issue. 1, p. 135.

    [27] Tyurina A.P. Economic relations in agriculture of the USSR // Questions of history. 1986. No. 2. S. 32; RGAE. F. 4372. Op. 66.D. 7095.L. 23; Soviet Russia. 1988 July.

    Where is the vast majority ... magazines?

    Aren't there too many lies - in one day?
  3. Foul skeptic
    Foul skeptic 19 January 2021 11: 22
    +1
    Hooray, I made you download the book, I am not in vain suffering with you for a year, maybe there will be shifts for the better.
    Where is the vast majority ... magazines?

    You start, for the sake of experiment, to analyze information. Any.
    Let's even take the 24 links you cited (from 4 to 27), links No. 5-16-17-18, No. 6-8, No. 20-22-23 - links to one source, you can delete them as duplicates.
    No. 7 - newspaper, No. 9 - three newspapers, No. 12 - two newspapers, No. 14 - newspaper, No. 15 - magazine, No. 21 - magazine, No. 24 - newspaper, No. 25 - magazine, No. 27 - one magazine and one newspaper ...
    And now, if you make such an analysis on all 478 links, then you yourself will see that the vast majority of them are magazines and newspapers. And the overwhelming majority of magazines and newspapers - the newspaper "Selskaya Zhizn", which for beauty was veiled under the "clever" guise of "RCKHIDNI, F. 591".
    There is a statement that ...

    "confirmed" by a source that does not indicate the source of the digits. In another language, these numbers are not verifiable by this source, which means it is not valid. If I tell you that UFOs, Chupacabra, Yeti, the monster of one Scottish lake exist and their existence is proven by the existence of the issue of the magazine "UFO", where it is written about them, then this is not proof of the existence of the above characters, since "UFO" is not a valid resource with verifiable information.
    Andrey, just to realize the scale of the catastrophe ... - and how do you imagine the confirmation of these theses from Denisova? One sentence? Actually, this is isolated from the entire contents of the book when you discard the numerous husks in the form of subjective personal assessments. A simple example.
    You here made your favorite cry of the same type - 1) the villages disappear - oh, how bad 2) there are no conditions in the villages - oh, how bad. Typical populism. Don't you want to tell, using the monograph, what kind of villages were?
    At the end of the 50s. 180,3 thousand villages and villages of Russia were scattered across the Non-Black Earth Region. More than 70% of settlements were represented by settlements with a population of up to 100 inhabitants

    That is, in more than 128 thousand villages there are less than 100 inhabitants. And less than a hundred, this does not mean almost 100, and Denisova also notes this:
    in the Arkhangelsk, Vologda, Novgorod, Pskov, Ivanovskaya, Kalinin, Kostroma, Yaroslavl and Kirov regions - in 80-90% of settlements, an average of 30-38 people lived

    In 1970, in the central regions of Russia, about 30% of all rural settlements had up to 25 inhabitants, 22% - from 26 to 50 people, 23% - from 51 to 100 and 14% - from 101 to 200, and those living there accounted for 40% the entire rural population of the region. This phenomenon is one of the most typical for the Non-Black Earth Region.

    Denisova does not deny the futility of sparsely populated villages
    Comparison of data from the 1959 and 1970 census. showed that in the country as a whole, including the Non-Black Earth Region, rural settlements with more than 3 thousand inhabitants had the best dynamics.

    Since the end of the 50s. the state policy of rationalizing settlement began to be vigorously pursued, which in the long term should have led to an improvement in the economic and cultural life of the village population. The campaign to create agro-cities was launched with the personal participation of NS Khrushchev back in the 50s.

    Gradually, collective farm villages and villages are being transformed into enlarged urban-type settlements with comfortable residential buildings, utilities, household enterprises, cultural and medical institutions.

    Only in a large rural settlement with 2 inhabitants or more was it possible to have a relatively complete set of service establishments “on the spot”. According to the current regulations, the settlement in
    2 thousand residents relied on: secondary or incomplete secondary school for 400-480 students; kindergarten for 140-180 children; a club with an auditorium for 300 seats and a cinema installation; an outpatient clinic with several doctors, designed for 50 visits per day; library for 6 thousand volumes; grocery store (or shops) with a total trading area of ​​140 sq. m; department store with an area of ​​100 sq. m; canteen or cafe for 50 seats; consumer services enterprises, including dry cleaning for 20-22 workplaces; bath; post office.

    "The state saw the reasons for the economic difficulties of the Non-Black Earth Region in the impossibility of organizing the production process on the territory of one farm due to the scattering of the small villages included in it. It is much easier to establish production by concentrating everything and everyone in one village."

    Were they wrong? Were not. After all
    The experience of advanced farms in settling small villages on the central estates of collective and state farms gave good results

    Example? Denisov leads the collective farm to them. Kirov, Falensky district
    In 1975 he had 11,4 thousand hectares of farmland, including 9,3 thousand. hectares of arable land. On the territory of the collective farm, there were 99 villages, where 1383 collective farmers lived (together with family members).

    That is, on average 14 yards per village (!!!)
    For them, three comfortable villages were built for 130-150 families. Each of them had a school, a first-aid post, a shop, a club, and service enterprises. All villages were connected by hard-surface roads.
  4. Olgovich
    Olgovich 19 January 2021 12: 52
    -3
    Quote: Nefarious skeptic
    Hooray, i made download the book, knowingly I am suffering with you for a year, maybe there will be shifts for the better.

    belay fool lol
    Your pompous snobbery is ridiculous: I have this book with before last year

    Since then, the numbers from it appear in my comments.

    2. I DEMAND to provide the PROOF of your statements that the given figures I "dug up" on dumps: name these "dumpsters".

    Or have the courage to admit that lied.

    Quote: Nefarious skeptic
    You start, for the sake of experiment, to analyze information. Any.
    Let's even take the 24 links you cited (from 4 to 27), links No. 5-16-17-18, No. 6-8, No. 20-22-23 - links to one source, you can delete them as duplicates.
    No. 7 - newspaper, No. 9 - three newspapers, No. 12 - two newspapers, No. 14 - newspaper, No. 15 - magazine, No. 21 - magazine, No. 24 - newspaper, No. 25 - magazine, No. 27 - one magazine and one newspaper ...

    SHOOT: There are not 24 links, there are many times more of them.
    Consider at least here the number of works in one link alone:
    [10] Tikhonov V.A., Lezina M.L. Decree. op. P. 35; Labor problems in agriculture. M., 1982.S. 43; Mashenkov V.F., Maltsev N.E. Decree. op. P. 140; April 1; Lupinovich E.I. Support system for farms in unfavorable conditions in the EEC countries. M., 1990.S. 90; Economist. 1994. No. 9. P. 9; RGAE. F. 4372. Op. 66.D. 7095.L. 17-19.

    Did it get there? No.

    And most of the monographs and collections are where the numbers are from.

    And letters to newspapers are beautiful additional illustration the DISASTER that yours were doing in Russia.
    Quote: Nefarious skeptic
    if you make such an analysis for all 478 links, then you will see for yourself that the vast majority of them are magazines and newspapers.

    Lie-see above.
    Quote: Nefarious skeptic
    "confirmed" by a source that does not indicate the source of the digits. In another language, these numbers are not verifiable by this source, which means it is not valid.

    Squish someone's belief / disbelief

    Can you refute this statement of the newspaper of the Authority?

    No? And what is the use of chatter?

    And yes, when you break into even today's Izvestia with the "Chupokarba", then come and discuss the comparability of it and the Izvestia 1989 data.
    Quote: Nefarious skeptic
    Were they wrong? Were not. After all

    Were, of course, wrong, Denisova:
    Initially, the optimistically assessed resettlement policy in a fairly short time was critically reviewed by scientists and practitionersindicating the lengthy process and on the fallacy of this measure as a ubiquitous solution to socio-economic problems. In subsequent years, this point of view prevailed.

    .
    March 20, 1974 was planned for 1976-1980. resettlement of 170 thousand families from small settlements to comfortable settlements Vl. However, the experience of resettlement in the first two or three years (1976-1978) showed ill-considered method of solving the problem of resettlement and the harmfulness of the widespread propaganda of most of the rural settlements,.
    .
    Not developing socially and thus excluded from normal life, a huge part of the agrarian subsystem in these conditions was rapidly losing its most capable and young part of the population. They, as a rule, not wishing to settle on the central estates of farms, bypassing them, rushed to cities and workers' settlements. The socio-cultural situation of small settlements turned out to be simply outrageous. The central farmsteads of farms were settled mainly at the expense of migrants from other farms.
    .
    General conclusion (not your isolated examples:
    The idea of ​​settling villages on the central estates in practice turned out to be disastrous for most areas of the Non-Black Earth Region. In search of a better, definite and permanent life, the villagers left the villages forever with their families. The move was carried outusually to the city. Empty the villages, pastures, meadows, all agricultural lands were overgrown. Insignificant number of settlers to the central estatese was able in most cases to keep even those so called agricultural frontiers

    Deadly conclusion.
  5. Foul skeptic
    Foul skeptic 19 January 2021 15: 49
    -1
    Your pompous snobbery is ridiculous: I have this book since the year before last
    Since then, the numbers from it appear in my comments.
    2. I DEMAND to provide the PROOF of your statements that the given figures I "dug up" in the trash heaps: name these "trash heaps".

    Tell me, what is the probability that a person from a 200-page book with hundreds of data that he could use for his manipulations uses only those that are found in Internet trash heaps? What a coincidence tongue
    Do you know the fork position in chess? ))
    Do not you see that the situation "Olgovich, as usual, without delving into the original source, ripped off phrases from the Internet trash heap" is more beneficial for you than the situation "Olgovich still used the original source"? Because the first justifies you, and the second does not. What, do not you understand? laughing
    Consider at least here the number of works in one link only

    The fact that the monograph was published in violation of the design ethics and design rules does not add points to it.
    And letters to newspapers are an excellent additional illustration of the DISASTER that yours were doing in Russia.

    crying of Yaroslavna. Again "yours, ours, theirs." Again, a catastrophe existing only in your head in capital letters. Letters are a subjective component. Once again, what is a person guided by when he complains that there is no gas in his village of 10 yards? Was he there and then disappeared? No. It never existed. Should he appear there? How is it? Can you explain?
    Lie-see above.

    No. So far - not proven or refuted statement. And since I understand that the burden of proof lies with the approver, and I argued, I will sit down to analyze each link. Wait for the report.
    Can you refute this statement of the newspaper of the Authority?

    the postscript about the authority is ridiculous. This is the statement of a specific person - Ovchinnikova.
    Do you know anything about Russell's kettle? I have already written the principle of this analogy above:
    The burden of proof lies with the approver. Therefore, I do not have to prove Ovchinnikova's numbers, but she. Well, or Denisov, as a further repeater. Well, or you, as a further repeater.
    It was critically reviewed by scientists and practitioners who pointed out the lengthy process and the fallacy of this measure as a widespread solution to socio-economic problems. In subsequent years, this point of view prevailed.

    Do you see the names (plural) of these scientists and practitioners? What are these mythical people. Where are the names and references to work?
    showed the ill-conceivedness of this method of solving the problem of resettlement

    where Denisova explains the lack of thought? Doesn't explain? And what is it then? Is it that instead of moving to collective farm estates, the youth moved to cities? So those who made such decisions could not get into everyone's head. They just tried to leave people on the ground. Because without resettlement, microvillages are unprofitable if you provide them with the infrastructure level of a large settlement. This means that this infrastructural level does not shine for them. This means that people will leave the village anyway and go to the city. Therefore, what is your accusation against the authorities in the issue of the standard of living and the disappearance of micro-villages in the Non-Black Earth Region? Specifically only.
    Not developing socially and thus excluded from normal life, a huge part of the agrarian subsystem in these conditions was rapidly losing its most capable and young part of the population. As a rule, it did not WANT to settle on the central estates of farms, bypassing them, rushed to cities and workers' settlements. The socio-cultural situation of small-sized settlements was simply outrageous. The central farmsteads of farms were settled mainly by migrants from other farms.

    So I wrote to you about that above! Even the same text is found.
    That is a wonderful situation. Instead of a Zachukhon village, the state spends money on the construction of a better rural settlement so that people continue to work on the land. The gratitude of people - and we wanted to spit on your efforts. And to the ground, by and large. We will move to the city. And the state is to blame. belay
    General conclusion (and not your isolated examples

    So he is single, not because he is "alone", but because Denisova preferred subjective assessments to specific examples. It's easier, less work, and the book is concocted. To her and address the claim.

    Denisova's conclusion was different:
    We will only note that the very policy of resettlement of residents to large settlements was carried out with the aim of strengthening agricultural production and consolidating the villagers on their land. By this they tried to create conditions for the life of the village, and not to destroy it. For for the extinction of the village, it would be enough to leave everything as it is, and small villages would gradually disappear, maybe at a slower pace, but disappeared.
  6. Olgovich
    Olgovich 19 January 2021 21: 28
    -1
    Quote: Nefarious skeptic
    Tell me, what is the probability that a person from a 200-page book with hundreds of data that he could use for his manipulations uses only those that are found in Internet trash heaps? What a coincidence

    You, a lie, have already been asked THREE times to find the numbers I indicated in ANY "trash heap" and name it.

    But, I see, the gut is thin. As well as apologizing for your awkwardly thrown nonsense.
    Quote: Nefarious skeptic
    Because the first justifies you, and the second does not. What, do not you understand?

    What ... justifies? fool Before ... who? fool
    What, again, you ... didn't get it?

    Quote: Nefarious skeptic
    The fact that the monograph was published in violation of the design ethics and design rules does not add points to it.

    These links are generally .... not from a monograph, ignoramus. lol

    And yes, it's not for you to talk about ethics.

    Quote: Nefarious skeptic
    Yaroslavna's crying. Again "yours, ours, theirs." Again, a catastrophe existing only in your head in capital letters.
    .

    Will it reach you that the bankrupt (you), broadcasting about your righteousness from the debt hole, is ridiculous?
    Quote: Nefarious skeptic
    Once again, what is a person guided by when he complains that there is no gas in his village of 10 yards?

    He is guided by the fact that the authorities have LIES for decades about the electrification carried out, but he has no light ... - no. ..
    Quote: Nefarious skeptic
    the postscript about the authority is ridiculous. This is the statement of a specific person - Ovchinnikova.

    You are ridiculous is the organ USSR Armed Forces, not the ren of a vile bunch.

    Izvestia has no obligation to do anything prove readers, his duty inform it on the basis of knowingly reliable (for Izvestia) information.

    If you disagree, prove the opposite: this is a common practice in a newspaper-reader situation.

    Quote: Nefarious skeptic
    The burden of proof lies with the approver.

    You also claim that the article is not true. By the way, you claim absolutely falsely and without proof.
    Quote: Nefarious skeptic
    Do you see the names (plural) of these scientists and practitioners?

    Listen, I am not a guide for the blind and inept in the monograph: read it YOURSELF.

    And the works and surnames are indicated there, you just need to read.

    Quote: Nefarious skeptic
    So those who made such decisions could not get into everyone's head.

    This is natural: the headless could neither get into their heads, nor calculate the consequences of their madness.
    Quote: Nefarious skeptic
    They just tried to leave people on the ground.

    They tore them away from her.
    Quote: Nefarious skeptic
    Because without resettlement, microvillages are unprofitable if you provide them with the infrastructure level of a large settlement. This means that this infrastructural level does not shine for them. This means that people will leave the village anyway and go to the city. Therefore, what is your accusation against the authorities in the issue of the standard of living and the disappearance of microvillages in the Non-Black Earth Region?

    In stupidity and illiteracy. Because it's not the business of these stupid ignoramuses to decide for people where and how they live and work. This is the business of the people themselves.

    Don't you think, can't, don't know how to decide? To the dustbin of history.

    Quote: Nefarious skeptic
    The gratitude of people - and we wanted to spit on your efforts. And to the ground, by and large. We will move to the city. And the state is to blame

    It has long been known: the Russian people are not the same for you, not grateful to the party for their "concern." True, "care" led to his extinction and the devastation of his country.
    You write nonsense again: a DROP was built in the sea from what was planned and necessary (it would take 50 years - Denisov), and the villages were abandoned to die NOW. They built little, stupidly, poor quality, chaotic, without a plan. The people found a way out.
    Quote: Nefarious skeptic
    So he is single, not because he is "alone", but because Denisova preferred subjective assessments to specific examples. It's easier, less work, and the book cooked up.

    A wonderful, accurate, rich, murderous book for you. written in a huge amount of factual material
    Quote: Nefarious skeptic
    This tried to create the living conditions of the village.


    What do the dumb-headed people do? Do you remember their Chrysostom: ".... but it turned out ... as always!"
    The idea of ​​settling villages on central estates is in fact turned out to be disastrous for most areas of the Non-Black Earth Region. In search of a better, definite and permanent life, the villagers left the villages forever with their families. Moving was carried out, as a rule, to the city. Villages were deserted, pastures, meadows, all agricultural lands were overgrown. An insignificant number of migrants to the central estates was not able to in most cases, to keep even those so-called agricultural lines
  7. Foul skeptic
    Foul skeptic 20 January 2021 09: 57
    -1
    You, a lie, have already been asked THREE times to find the numbers I indicated in ANY "trash heap" and name it. But, I see, the gut is thin. As well as apologizing for your awkwardly thrown nonsense.

    Oh, stop pretending to be offended innocence. Well, I'll show you and? Nothing will change. It was the same with Beznin, read your correspondence. You were shown that in the form in which you cited the passage, it was not printed by Beznin, but was paraphrased a little in the Internet garbage cans. So what? Has it reached you? No. So why then throw beads now?
    What ... justifies?

    It means that it did not come.
    These links are generally .... not from a monograph, ignoramus.
    And yes, it's not for you to talk about ethics.

    Which you cited as references from the monograph.
    Yeah.
    And about "you / not you" - who are the judges? You? ))
    Will it reach you that the bankrupt (you), broadcasting about your righteousness from the debt hole, is ridiculous?

    What a passage. Slovoblud he is verbiage.
    He is guided by the fact that the authorities have LIES for decades about the electrification carried out, but he has no light ... - no. ..

    And what does electrification have to do with it? You first figure out what it is. Pulling power lines to disappearing villages of 10 houses is not electrification.
    Izvestia has no obligation to prove anything to readers, its duty is to inform it on the basis of knowingly reliable (for Izvestia) information

    Yeah of course. Everything that is written in the newspapers knowingly reliably good
    Do not write this heresy in parentheses. There is no information targeted reliable.
    You do not agree - prove otherwise

    Go and defend your dissertation before the Higher Attestation Commission on this principle fool
    Once again, for the poorly understood, the burden of proof lies with the approver. I’m not saying that a certain percentage of schools do not, but this is without it. Therefore, I do not prove it.
    You claim that the article is not true

    Show me where I say this? Saying that the figure is not confirmed and that the article is not true are the same for you? Another touch to the overall portrait.
    And the works and surnames are indicated there, you just need to read.

    Yeah, indicated .... Here are the lines from Denisova
    critically revised by scientists and practitioners, indicating the lengthy process and the fallacy of this measure as a widespread solution to socio-economic problems.

    After the bold one, according to the rules, there should be a footnote in which the names and works will be listed. Which you can read and see where and in what they indicate stretching and erroneousness. Without this, it is a value judgment of Denisova personally.
    They tore them away from her

    You replaced the goal (trying to leave people) with the result (people went to the city anyway).
    Let us only note that the very policy of resettlement of residents to large settlements was carried out with the aim of strengthening agricultural production and consolidating the villagers on their land. By this they tried to create conditions for the life of the village, and not to destroy it. For for the extinction of the village, it would be enough to leave everything as it is, and small villages would gradually disappear, maybe at a slower pace, but disappeared.

    Denisova says bluntly that the result did not depend on the goals and actions of the state.
    In stupidity and illiteracy. Because it's not the business of these stupid ignoramuses to decide for people where and how they live and work. This is the business of the people themselves.

    laughing Oh, how lovely.
    Why are you crying "oh, how bad, people have moved to the city"? This is the business of people. So they wanted - and moved. They wanted to live in a village of 10 houses - that's also their business. But let them not cry that they do not have central heating or sewerage. Because there is nothing that would show that in such villages they should be.
    And about what happened when Denisova's "complete freedom" came, very good concrete examples were also written. Yes, I myself often see, while traveling around the country.
    You write nonsense again: a DROP was built in the sea from what was planned and necessary (it would take 50 years - Denisova)

    Did you want to wave a magic wand? Ever since I learned from you that you are the director of a construction company, I never cease to be amazed at this reasoning. They do not fit with the person who conducts business activities.
    It's not about what was built at the wrong pace - they write to you
    They, as a rule, did not want to settle on the central farmsteads of farms, bypassing them, rushed to cities and workers' settlements

    That is, even where there were settlements that were now finished, the flow went to the city anyway.
    I cited figures from research, to enlarged rural settlements - 8% of applicants, to the city - 56%
    You cannot work, read, understand what you have read, analyze, isolate the main thing, frantically clinging to particulars and, accordingly, cannot even understand the meaning of what is written:

    laughing
  8. Olgovich
    Olgovich 20 January 2021 11: 32
    0
    Quote: Nefarious skeptic
    Oh, stop pretending offended innocence. Well, I'll show you and? Nothing will change

    So show me, you lie. But you ... you can't.

    And this is proof that your words are worth less than zero.
    Quote: Nefarious skeptic
    It was the same with Beznin, read your correspondence. It was shown to you that in the form in which you quoted the passage, it was not printed by Beznin

    That is how it was printed by Beznin, as it was proved to you.
    You are in a puddle.
    Quote: Nefarious skeptic
    So what? Has it reached you? No. So why then throw beads now?

    I agree, you definitely do not need to do this before you.
    Quote: Nefarious skeptic
    It means that it did not come.

    It didn’t come and don’t come, but why are you telling me about your problems? belay
    Quote: Nefarious skeptic
    Which you cited as references from the monograph.
    Yeah.

    But how did it happen that you are examining a monograph, and even .... do not know what is written in it? lol
    disgrace ...
    Quote: Nefarious skeptic
    And about "you / not you" - who are the judges? You? ))

    not you(( lol
    Quote: Nefarious skeptic
    What a passage. Slovoblud he is verbiage.

    Just a FACT: bankrupt (you), broadcasting about his innocence from a debt pit, is ridiculous.
    Quote: Nefarious skeptic
    And what does electrification have to do with it?

    Much more so than your ridiculous gas
    Quote: Nefarious skeptic
    Yeah of course. Everything that is written in the newspapers is knowingly reliable
    Do not write this heresy in parentheses. There is no addressable information.

    1. This is the organ of the AUTHORITY, not the vile ones: do you catch the difference?
    2. the information is recognized as reliable by official Izvestia, they are responsible for its reliability for the readers.

    But your statement about its unreliability has remained false and unproven.
    Quote: Nefarious skeptic
    Go and defend your dissertation before the Higher Attestation Commission on this principle
    Once again, for the poorly understood, the burden of proof lies with the approver. I’m not saying that a certain percentage of schools do not, but this is without it. Therefore, I do not prove it.

    The third time for the slow-thinking: your statement about the inaccuracy of information is a false empty innuendo.
    Got it, don't?
    Quote: Nefarious skeptic
    Show me where I say this? Saying that the figure is not confirmed and that the article is not true are the same for you? Another touch to the overall portrait.

    Touches to a portrait of sclerosis:
    Quote: A vile skeptic
    book cooked up.
    Quote: Nefarious skeptic
    Yeah, indicated ....
    After the bold one, according to the rules, there should be a footnote in which the names and works will be listed. Which you can read and see where and in what they indicate stretching and erroneousness. Without this, it is a value judgment of Denisova personally.

    And they are standing, a false speaker: Tyurina, Nikonov, Beznin, Pervedentsev, Anokhin, Sychev, Alekseev and dozens of other authors.
    Few?
    So read the work
    Quote: Nefarious skeptic
    You replaced the goal (trying to leave people) with the result (people went to the city anyway).

    What is their ... "purpose"? fool If you, building something good, kill someone, you will be imprisoned. And right
    Quote: Nefarious skeptic
    Denisova says directly that the result did not depend on the goals and actions of the state

    What are you talking about, huh? The result ... does not depend on the action specifically aimed at achieving the result? fool

    But as a result of dullness, the result turned out to be different, yes.
    Quote: Nefarious skeptic
    Why are you crying "oh, how bad, people have moved to the city"?

    I am very happy for the people who escaped from the actions of the dullheads.
    Here is a country devastated, sorry
    Quote: Nefarious skeptic
    And about what happened, Ph.

    And what did you want: first you killed the village in 70 years, exhausted the people, the desire to work, got drunk, and then you say, come on, now you can work?
    Bring back the Russian people of 1917, who were in charge of yours in 17, and everything will be transformed, yes.
    Quote: Nefarious skeptic

    Did you want to wave a magic wand?

    It's not me, but the stupid ones thought so. But it turned out quite differently.
    It's not about what was built at the wrong pace - they write to you
    They, as a rule, did not want to settle on the central farmsteads of farms, bypassing them, rushed to cities and workers' settlements

    They write to you that nobody, especially the young, did not need these awkward undersized / undercountry:
    in many cases, the settlement began only after the resettlement of new arrivals

    The advantages of most promising settlements were not so great, and the difficulties of relocation were enormous. In addition, the conditions for personal subsidiary farming in the former places were often much better.
    Due to the limited resources, a radical transformation of promising villages was possible only in 15-20 years or more. Settlement throughout the Non-Black Earth Region could take at least 50 years.. As for the initial stage, in those years, promising villages, as a rule, did not differ much from unpromising ones. The instability of the situation in the Non-Black Earth Region, the threat of resettlement in other areas, did not contribute to the development of collective and state farms in the region. Most residents lost hope of a prosperous life at home and did not want to start from scratch in a new place.. A significant part of the settlements proposed for resettlement were far from projects on paper. The villagers sought to leave their villages directly to the city.
  9. Foul skeptic
    Foul skeptic 20 January 2021 13: 40
    -1
    I will not comment on a part of your stream of consciousness, there have even been incoherent proposals.
    But how did it happen that you are examining a monograph, and even .... do not know what is written in it?

    To conclude that if a person does not remember the list of literature, then he does not know what is written in the work (for which he is not the author) - this is a clinic. What kind of nonsense, no one remembers literally, they remember the general structure and particulars of the content that are of interest. If it is necessary to obtain specific information on the memorized structure, they find what they need. The list of references you gave included Tyurina, the People's Economy of the USSR, Beznin, which I remembered from memory that there are references to them in the monograph. Why did I have to double-check even that for you? Because I think better of you than you deserve? So you just confirmed that you sculpt your messages, do not understand from what just wishful thinking. Congratulations
    Much more so than your ridiculous gas

    And why is he absurd? So again, I am asking quite specific. Explain why the state has to conduct communications in 100 villages with 10 houses and 25 inhabitants in each, similar to the urban ones and cover the losses of these 100 villages at the expense of other settlements?
    1. This is the organ of the AUTHORITY, not the vile ones: do you catch the difference?
    2. Do not write nonsense: since the information is recognized as reliable by the official Izvestia, they are responsible for its reliability for the readers as well.

    Really. That is, in some 33 year, the print authority writes about the well-fed life of the peasants, is this reliable information? Or in 37 he writes about a German spy in the echelons of power, is this reliable information? Wow. So we will write it down.
    But your statement about its unreliability has remained false and unproven. Third time for the slow-thinking: your allegation of inaccuracy

    Show me where I call Ovchinnikova's article unreliable? Well, let's.
    Show me where I say this? Saying that the figure is not confirmed and that the ARTICLE is not true is the same for you? Another touch to the overall portrait.
    Touches to a portrait of sclerosis:
    Quote: A vile skeptic
    So he is single, not because he is "alone", but because Denisova preferred subjective assessments to specific examples. It's easier, less work, and the BOOK is cooked up.

    Are you normal? In one place we are talking about an article in Izvestia (the fact that the data from the article cannot be verified), and in another about a monograph (the fact that the letters presented did not understand the essence, but were simply used to fill the content.).
    And they are standing, empty void

    Again forced to repeat? Are you normal? It is not necessary to snatch surnames from references found in the book. I repeat, read until it comes
    critically reviewed by scientists and practitioners, indicating the lengthy process and the fallacy of this measure as a widespread solution to socio-economic problems.
    After the bold one, according to the rules, there should be a footnote in which the names and works will be listed. Which you can read and see where and in what they indicate stretching and erroneousness. Without this, it is a value judgment of Denisova personally.

    What are you talking about, huh? The result ... does not depend on the action specifically aimed at achieving the result?

    Are you surprised that this is possible? Well, I'm sorry to have inadvertently expanded your horizons.
    The most primitive example it will show is a random number generator. Do you want from life, and not from dry mathematics?
    a) fishing. The goal is to catch a perch. Concrete action directed at this - we got together and went with a fishing rod to the pond. The result is independent of the specific action.
    And all because there is always a number of quantities that we have no influence on.
    Here is a country devastated

    I will not give my comment, which will answer you as best as possible:
    There is no work or social and cultural life in the village. And the city has everything. The natural process of labor migration during the industrialization of society. From the 19th century it began, according to the paintings of Levitan. None of the scribes for the disappeared villages live in the village. Everyone prefers to suffer through the village out of urban comfort. A good division of labor: you there in the village bury yourself in manure, I will suffer for you in the city (best of all in a restaurant).

    It's not me, but the stupid ones thought so.

    Please provide an official document stating the construction and resettlement deadlines. Until then, this is your value judgment.
    carried / non-city was not needed by anyone, especially young

    Yeah. The complaint about small scattered villages is that there is no comfort. The complaint about the cities is that people from the village are lured and there is no one to work on the land. And the option "carried / non-city", which gives comfort and leaves people on the ground, while no one needs it. And the state is to blame. Class.
    worn out people

    and where have they been exterminated? "Povbyvali, izvergi?" Conditions were not worsened for people, conditions were not improved for them, in accordance with their unreasonable wishes, in comparison with other settlements where it was justified. You need to understand this difference.
    Most residents lost hope of a prosperous life at home and did not want to start from scratch in a new place. A significant part of the settlements proposed for resettlement were far from projects on paper.

    And again in the "excellent" monograph there are no references where they are needed. Where is the reference to social research, where is the consideration of this significant part of the villages with its actual state and design, and then with a comparison with the conditions in which the people who were resettled in it lived before... Another value judgment of the author.
  10. Olgovich
    Olgovich 20 January 2021 16: 08
    -3
    Quote: Nefarious skeptic
    I will not comment on a part of your stream of consciousness, there have even been incoherent proposals.

    As you say, you have "merged", yes: they could not indicate a single "garbage dump" where the indicated numbers appeared.

    They lied. Fi ...
    Shaw, you haven't found it yet? lol
    Quote: Nefarious skeptic
    To conclude that if a person does not remember the list of literature, then he does not know what is written in the work (for which he is not the author) - this is a clinic. What kind of nonsense, no one remembers literally, they remember the general structure and particulars of the content that are of interest.

    Delirium and laughter are YOUR, with a clever look, parsing links in a monograph, which are not related to the monograph .... in any way. lol

    You didn't even ... notice that you were reading the wrong thing.
    Shame ...
    Quote: Nefarious skeptic
    And why is he absurd?

    The fact that the light is AVAILABLE and, allegedly, has been installed for a long time, and the gas is not available in principle and NOBODY promised or expected it
    Quote: Nefarious skeptic
    Really. That is, in some 33 year, the printed authority writes about the well-fed life of the peasants, is this reliable information? Or in 37 he writes about a German spy in the echelons of power, is this reliable information? Wow. So let's write.

    You are doing the right thing: I will speak more slowly.
    In 33, Izvestia also wrote RELIABLE (as they were sure) information, because only what they printed was available.
    Is this really incomprehensible?
    Quote: Nefarious skeptic

    Show me where I call Ovchinnikova's article unreliable? Well, let's.

    Above, you wrote a lot of letters about unproven, unverifiable and doubtful
    Quote: Nefarious skeptic
    Are you normal? In one place we are talking about an article in Izvestia (the fact that the data from the article cannot be verified), and in another about a monograph (the fact that the letters presented did not understand the essence, but were simply used to fill the content.).
    "SHITTY" is your derogatory assessment of the monograph.
    Or do you not understand the meaning of the words?
    Quote: Nefarious skeptic
    Again forced to repeat? Are you normal? It is not necessary to snatch surnames from references found in the book. I repeat, read until it comes
    critically reviewed by scientists and practitioners who pointed out the lengthy process and the fallacy of this measure as a widespread solution to socio-economic problems.
    After the bold one, according to the rules, there should be a footnote in which the names and works will be listed. Which you can read and see where and in what they indicate stretching and erroneousness.

    You already: are the names of the authors in the text and their work in the LINKS indicate "Which can be read and seen".
    Will you ever read the work? I'm not your guide
    Quote: Nefarious skeptic
    fishing. The goal is to catch a perch. Concrete action directed at this - we got together and went with a fishing rod to the pond. The result is independent of the specific action

    Let's go with the bomb. And they threw it at him. And there is no rezkltat pond. And then I wanted a couple of fish.
    Got it?
    Quote: Nefarious skeptic
    None of the scribes for the disappeared villages live in the village. Everyone prefers to suffer through the village out of urban comfort. A good division of labor: you there in the village bury yourself in manure, I will suffer for you in the city (best of all in a restaurant).

    This is not an answer: the policy of the authorities led to the fact that people simply fled from the hell that the authorities arranged for them in their home and village.
    Not people like that, but such power.
    Quote: Nefarious skeptic
    Please provide an official document stating the construction and resettlement deadlines. Until then, this is your value judgment.

    With a fright? You claimwhat am I wrong? So prove it! Or have you already forgotten yourself?
    Quote: Nefarious skeptic
    Yeah. The complaint about small scattered villages is that there is no comfort. The complaint about the cities is that people from the village are lured and there is no one to work on the land. And the option "carried / non-city", which gives comfort and leaves people on the ground, while no one needs it.

    What, in, "comfort" in a shipment? Neither a village nor a city, but an unknown animal. Better a city: read the work.
    Cities were no longer lured, people were bursting on their own, overloading the cities.
    Quote: Nefarious skeptic
    and where have they been exterminated? "Povbyvali, izvergi?"

    Almost: in 20 years FORTY-FOUR% of people fled from the village.
    Quote: Nefarious skeptic
    Another value judgment of the author.

    Accurate assessment based on the research presented in the work.
    Do you have doubts about what happened exactly like this: unfinished, long-term construction, poor quality, no capital investments?
  11. Foul skeptic
    Foul skeptic 19 January 2021 11: 39
    0
    (Continued comment)
    Result?
    A high concentration of production was achieved in this farm. Instead of 28 cattle farms there were three for 2350 heads, pig breeding was concentrated on one large farm. Reduced the number of field and tractor brigades, this made it possible to raise labor productivity. Per one average annual worker employed in agriculture, in 1975 the collective farm produced 2,5 times more output than the average for the regional collective farms. The economic successes of the economy had a significant impact on the consolidation of the labor force. The collective farm has reduced staff turnover, annually several dozen able-bodied men and women joined it not only from villages, but also from cities and towns of the region

    Were people satisfied after the resettlement? Most are pretty
    Of course, the living conditions of the migrants have improved. About 80% of the respondents noted this. The bulk of the migrants were young families, for whom the conditions for running a personal subsidiary farm are not so important, and an increase in the level of service, which was noted by 95% of migrants, and an improvement in working conditions - for 63% of them they created generally better living conditions than in unpromising villages ... The level of housing improvement has also increased: out of every 100 resettled families, 63 had central heating, 91 gas, 67 water supply. Note that before the resettlement, central heating and running water were absent in the houses of all resettled families, only 8% of them used gas. In the new settlements of the farms being resettled, the age structure of the population improved, the proportion of machine operators among all employed increased, and the number of those employed in equestrian work decreased.

    And now, instead of 99 profitable unprofitable villages without infrastructure, you have 3 break-even villages with infrastructure and satisfied residents.
    Here are just all good intentions rested on:
    Surveys showed that residents of unpromising villages under the age of 20 only in 5 cases out of 100 wanted to stay in place, provided that no transformational measures were taken, 8 people - agreed to resettlement, 21 people - to develop inter-settlement centers and relations with them, 10 - to develop promising villages and 56 - to move to the city

    They, as a rule, do not wish to settle on the central estates of farms, bypassing them, rushed to cities and workers' settlements.

    Leaving their villages, people often sought to move not to the central estates of collective farms and state farms, but to regional and regional centers.

    That is, young people did not want to live there even if life was improved "in the countryside." And Denisova explains why this is inevitable:
    Cities are characterized by a variety of activities, and the larger the city, the greater the diversity. This pattern can be traced through the list of professions typical for settlements of different types and sizes. So, in the 70s. in Russia, there were about 30 40-300 thousand professions, of which no more than 400-1 professions accounted for the entire agricultural population, that is, about XNUMX%. Thus, the cities concentrated in themselves a variety of professional activities to a much greater extent.
    And the city attracted people. And the main thing. It was and remains not only the center of industry, the consumer of labor, but it is the center of civilization. It is a cultural magnet, where you can get education and experience cultural values. The city is a source of progress and its development requires replenishment.


    Enough with you, delve into it yourself. Only for this it is necessary to learn to isolate the subjective. And the monograph is oversaturated with subjective. Denisova built it on the letters of the complainant collective farmers. Those who want their villages with 30 people to have everything the same as in a city of several hundred thousand people.
    PS Well, about her communications:
    Statistics recorded: by the end of the 70s. engineering systems (central heating, water supply, sewerage) were only in 20-30% of rural houses in Russia. By the end of the 80s. almost half of the housing stock in the Russian countryside was provided with running water, a third with central heating and sewerage. The sixth part was provided with hot water supply. Gas was supplied to 80% of rural houses.

    PPS Well, just in case, for the future about the hopelessness and poverty of the village:
    For the 70s. the amount of deposits in the countryside increased 8 times and amounted to over 23 billion rubles. (in the city - 7 times) with an increase in the number of depositors-villagers doubled (about 20 million). The average size of the deposit in the savings banks of the village was 162 rubles higher than in the city. and was about 1200 rubles. At that time, 41,6 million people lived in the village.
    For the 80s. the amount of deposits, according to the Sberbank of Russia, increased in rural areas from 23,7 billion rubles. up to 44,4 billion rubles. (in cities from 65,7 billion rubles to 147,5 billion rubles). The average size of a peasant's contribution was 1768 rubles. (city dweller - 1589 rubles). This is despite the fact that many villagers preferred to keep their money at home, especially the older generation. The amount of deposits in the countryside turned out to be significant. More than 25 million rural residents became depositors. (In 1989, 39 million people lived in rural areas in Russia, of which 10,3 million were younger than the working age). Note that many rural residents opened accounts in savings banks for their children and relatives, thus having two or three accounts.

  12. Olgovich
    Olgovich 19 January 2021 22: 18
    -3
    [
    Quote: Nefarious skeptic
    this farm has achieved a high concentration of production

    To shove this economy into the headless leaders there, yes.

    For this minuscule good had devastation COUNTRY as a whole.

    You cannot work, read, understand what you have read, analyze, isolate the main thing, frantically clinging to particulars and, accordingly, cannot even understand the meaning of what is written:

    The idea of ​​settling villages on central estates actually turned out to be disastrous for most areas of the Non-Black Earth Region. Moving was carried out, as a rule, to the city. Villages were deserted, pastures, meadows, all agricultural lands were overgrown. An insignificant number of immigrants to the central estates were not able, in most cases, to keep even those so-called agricultural borders
    and:

    .
    The villagers did not work for the benefit of their particular economy. They always worked as a whole [b] for the state, which siphoned food from the farms semi-free and free of charge. It so happened in state policy that the village was obliged to maintain the city, almost always to its own detriment. Years of hard work with the sole purpose of getting out of poverty and poverty has not justified itself. Most of the farms in the Non-Black Earth Region during the 60-80s had low production indicators. The level of development of social infrastructure lagged significantly behind the urban one. The villages were empty.

    The past decades of economic experimentation have brought many areas of the Non-Black Earth Region to a critical juncture. A stingy rural landscape that has become a symbol of a dying village in non-black earth Russia: rickety houses with boarded up windows, abandoned wells, overgrown with bushes of arable land.


    However, that's enough for you, educate yourself, tired of it.
  • Flooding
    Flooding 18 January 2021 17: 53
    -6
    Well, why are you so. Inconvenient, right word.
  • didra
    didra 18 January 2021 18: 56
    -5
    This bitterness that people pour on their own church is very depressing. Blindness! But, there is hope, not everything is hopeless !!!
  • Sergej1972
    Sergej1972 18 January 2021 14: 00
    +8
    Well, two years ago, a rural nine-year school was closed, the director of which was my mother for almost thirty years. Both former students and her former subordinates, teachers and technical workers, communicate with her, treat with respect .. The number of children was from 40 with a little in the early 90s, the maximum was in the late 90s, up to 60 people, then stable reduction, before the closure of about 20 students. It's a shame, of course. But local children are taken by bus to school 8 kilometers from the closed one. A large school has a gym, well-equipped classrooms, etc. Although parental concerns about transporting children in cold weather ice is very large. And children need to get up earlier. And it was closed partly because the local residents did not intercede (they were promised a lot about the education of children in a large school), and partly because many parents, after primary school, sent their children to school in the regional center. Small schools are closed, for several dozen students, but in regional centers, new schools are opening, each for 500-800 students, or even more.
    1. Dart2027
      Dart2027 18 January 2021 19: 23
      -4
      Quote: Sergej1972
      Small schools are closed, for several dozen students, but in regional centers new schools are opening, each for 500-800 students, or even more.

      And all the scammers are not interested in it. The characteristic point is always talking about the number of schools and hospitals, but never talking about the actual capacity.
  • vladimirvn
    vladimirvn 18 January 2021 13: 31
    +12
    The church is needed to teach people to kneel.
    1. didra
      didra 18 January 2021 18: 58
      -3
      You tell this to Suvorov and Ushakov.
      1. Dart2027
        Dart2027 18 January 2021 19: 23
        -5
        Quote: didra
        You are Suvorov with Ushakov

        Better to Fedor Emelianenko.
      2. vladimirvn
        vladimirvn 18 January 2021 19: 48
        +7
        Between me and God, intermediaries in the form of a church are not needed. When a priest who graduated from a church vocational school teaches me how to live, I find it funny.
        1. Vladimir1155
          Vladimir1155 19 January 2021 13: 06
          -4
          if when someone wants to teach you something ... you find it funny ... then it only burns about you as a proud person confident in his great wisdom ... and also informs me that you have almost no knowledge, because the border of your ignorance is too small, so I know a lot, I teach at the university (what I have never taught), wrote 48 scientific articles and 5 monographs in large print runs, was officially a Kremlin expert .. and I understand that the border of my ignorance is so great that I study when who is me teaches, recently an old illiterate Uzbek taught me how to renovate a house, I am grateful to him.
          1. vladimirvn
            vladimirvn 19 January 2021 13: 32
            +3
            Quote: vladimir1155
            then it only burns about you as a proud person confident in your great wisdom ..

            Exactly. So what can a priest teach you in church that you yourself do not know? Obedience, humility? And how to build a house, I myself would have learned from someone and would not consider it shameful.
  • Nazar
    Nazar 18 January 2021 15: 16
    +10
    Valerikk - In the Russian Federation there are more than 30 thousand churches of the Russian Orthodox Church, and even on Easter, services are conducted only in 11 thousand churches - for the remaining 20 thousand churches there are not enough ministers or parishioners.
    A classic joke: - Before the revolution there was a church and a roadside tavern in the village. The Bolsheviks came - the pub was closed, a club was opened in the church, a school, a polyclinic and a library were built. Democrats came - the club was closed, the school, clinic and library were optimized ... and now the village has a church and a roadside tavern.
  • Svarog
    Svarog 18 January 2021 15: 21
    +6
    Quote: Valerikk
    There will soon be more temples than schools and hospitals put together .. Why so many?

    To humble themselves settled in the hearts and fragile minds, humility to poverty, nullification, lawlessness and other indecent actions. Why schools for consumers and servants? It is enough to read and add syllables.
  • Aleksandr1971
    Aleksandr1971 18 January 2021 17: 08
    +5
    It is terribly frustrating that the authorities in Russia are stubbornly trying to instill religious obscurantism. The reason for this is understandable - the anti-popular plundering regime is trying to powder the brains of the people and, under the sauce of popular ignorance, continue to plunder the property. A side effect of this will be a further weakening of the scientific potential and the extinction of the country.
    But I hope that during the years of Soviet power, our society (with the exception of downright stupid) has generally figured out that any religion is a mafia instrument in the hands of enemies of the people. An example of this is the attempts of the authorities to force the entrepreneurs of Yekaterinburg to build a stupid temple in the city center. After popular protests, the Yekaterinburg authorities tried to push the building on the outskirts. But the city's entrepreneurs, inspired by popular support, declared a categorical "NO" to the authorities' religious extortion. And the city authorities themselves realized that for the people another building of the Christian "cargo cult" is only anger, not ecstasy.
    I would like Russia to direct its efforts towards strengthening the scientific potential of the people. For the state to open and fund programs of practical scientific research, so that the results of this activity are embodied in the products of factories and research institutes, so that R&D products become the main source of Russia's national income. And I would like religious activities in any form to be under the strictest criminal prohibition, like pedophilia.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 18 January 2021 18: 30
      -5
      It is terribly frustrating that the authorities in Russia are stubbornly trying to instill religious obscurantism. The population is on the sidelines for this - faith is an individual thing, whether you believe it or not, by force, no one drives anyone there.
    2. BAI
      BAI 18 January 2021 18: 55
      +5
      It is terribly upset that the authorities in Russia are persistently trying to instill religious obscurantism.

      With the collapse of the USSR, the ideological niche, previously occupied by Marxism-Leninism, was freed. Now it needs to be filled, but there is nothing. The authorities cannot offer anything intelligible. So they are slaughtered with religion.
    3. Vladimir1155
      Vladimir1155 19 January 2021 13: 13
      -4
      here is the typical logic
      Quote: Aleksandr1971
      under the strictest criminal prohibition

      Is it so important for you to ban everything? Did I find a jailer too? , the fate of the militant atheist Yaroslavsky (Gubelman) is sad, Stalin shot him like all members of the society of militant atheists and did the right thing .... why are you trying to get into people? everything is bad with you, and you envy that others are good? the state and the church are separated, do not have a common budget, touched by the list of requirements both for the church and believers and for the state, Why on earth would you think you have already drawn a halo for yourself? will you give money for all this?
      1. Aleksandr1971
        Aleksandr1971 19 January 2021 14: 03
        +2
        1. Where did you see in my post that I want to ban everything? I only propose to ban religious organizations and religious propaganda, regardless of the type of religion. And at home, let everyone believe in what you want, only let him not go to others with his faith.

        2. The fate of many people who were not justly repressed by Stalin is sad.
        And you have a cognitive dissonance - you regret Yaroslavsky (Gubelman), but at the same time you think that his execution by Stalin is good.

        3. In my post it is not said that everything is bad for me, and that I supposedly envy others. I am 50 years old and I am now a rentier. And for myself, for the future of my daughter and son, I do not worry. And again you ascribe to me what I did not say about myself.

        4. It is proclaimed that the state and the church are separate. But this is a lie because: a) the church does not pay taxes on trade; 2) the church receives free land and real estate from the state. You will probably argue that this is supposedly in compensation for damage from the Stalinist era. But for some reason, the repressed do not receive compensation for the property confiscated in the 20-50s; 3) the church has gotten into educational standards and systems for awarding academic degrees, which destroys science, and therefore Russia; 4) the church got into the system of public administration in all sectors to one degree or another.

        5. Where in my post did you see that I drew myself a halo? And what does my money have to do with it?
        This is your way of conducting a discussion - to ascribe to your opponent what he did not say or did, and then criticize your opponent for what you attributed to him. This mode of discussion is too obviously not constructive and does not command respect. I do not publicly ascribe to you my speculations about you. But I can also think about you about what kind of offender you are, etc., and then be horrified and send you for this, for example, the investigating authorities.
        1. Vladimir1155
          Vladimir1155 19 January 2021 14: 09
          -2
          I do not regret Gubelman, where did you see it ...
          1. Aleksandr1971
            Aleksandr1971 19 January 2021 14: 11
            +1
            You yourself wrote, and I am quoting you: "The fate of the militant atheist Yaroslavsky (Gubelman) is sad ..."
            1. Vladimir1155
              Vladimir1155 19 January 2021 14: 35
              -2
              I grieve for perishing people, and I grieve for you, for you are in darkness ... but I do not empathize with you, I worry about myself and those close to me
    4. Vladimir1155
      Vladimir1155 19 January 2021 18: 24
      -5
      Quote: Aleksandr1971
      activity in any guise would be under the strictest criminal prohibition

      where you bent .... Stalin is not on you! you surpassed the liar Emelka of Yaroslavsky (Gubelman), the bloody Sverdlov and traitor Trotsky, and the traitor Tukhachevsky who poisoned the Orthodox Tambovites with gases ... they shot a lot, but they didn’t even let down all believers under the criminal law? ... who hated Christians and died shamefully, or as another figure who sought out Christians for punishment and who fell ill in his anger to the point that no one could be near him and died being eaten by worms ... it’s a pity there are no modern executioners dreaming of putting the whole Orthodox Russian people in the prisons of the council. If there were no comrade Stalin, he would have found Dr. Guetier's medicine for Sverdlov and his followers, and a Mercadder's ice ax and a bullet for both Tukhachevsky and Gubelman .... but Stalin is gone ... worms remain ...
  • Artyom Karagodin
    Artyom Karagodin 18 January 2021 18: 54
    -3
    It seems to me that you have not read the publication very carefully. It is not about the construction of NEW churches, but about the preservation of those related to the history of Russia. More specifically, one of them. Admiral Spiridov considered it important to build a temple, and was buried there. No matter how we relate to religion, this temple is a monument of history. It is not necessary to be a believer to care about the restoration of this monument. Here, after all, as with the "Gagarinskaya Letka", the school where our Legend studied. It's just that Gagarin is our oldest contemporary, he is closer to us in time, so the fate of the Orenburg school creates a greater resonance.

    And as for the fact that "there will soon be more churches than schools and hospitals combined," you are, of course, exaggerating. But on the other hand, the trend towards "shock" construction of temples is really visible. Which is understandable. It is much more difficult to work with the souls of people than to build objects (even temples, even spiritual and educational centers, even Sunday schools). The temple is needed only where people want to go to it. If we remembered about it more often, and communicated with people more than "promoting projects", it would be much better.
  • g1v2
    g1v2 19 January 2021 07: 47
    0
    The temple has a utilitarian purpose. Weddings, funeral services, etc. are a constant matter. There are schools, kindergartens, a police station, a clinic in the area, and there should be a temple. Depending on the region - Orthodox, Muslim or Buddhist. They will be built on the same principle - walking distance. Hence the large number of construction projects. To whom it is like a knife to the heart, I sympathize, but without religion, society has nowhere. Now it is a state ideology around which the foundations of a new iteration of our country will be built. The communists tried to create their own religion and they even succeeded, but Khrushchev hacked it on takeoff. The collapse of the USSR was programmed even then. It was just that the communist elite, because of its illiteracy, did not understand what was being built and what was being destroyed. Hence the result. Therefore, the main communist of the union is now not building communism, but advertising pizza, and the party elite of the republics of the USSR quickly became feudal lords or capitalists.
    1. Vladimir1155
      Vladimir1155 19 January 2021 13: 22
      -2
      all right https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NzFQkKeSpc
  • yuriy55
    yuriy55 19 January 2021 21: 13
    +1
    Quote: Valerikk
    There will soon be more temples than schools and hospitals put together .. Why so many?

    Starting with the main
    In the new and little-known Patriot Park, which is located in the Odintsovo district of the Moscow region, the Church of the Resurrection of Christ, the Main Temple of the Russian Armed Forces, almost does not close its doors. I was lucky to see him these winter days.

    So it seemed to me that we have too many churches, but it turned out that there is never too much good:

    What is it? Here is an explanation from 33:00:

    hi
  • bober1982
    bober1982 18 January 2021 12: 10
    +6
    Happy Epiphany Eve everyone, ours and not ours!
    At least on this day, we will not arrange a hubbub.
    1. Artyom Karagodin
      Artyom Karagodin 18 January 2021 20: 03
      -2
      It is a pity that it is impossible for you to put +10 right away. The most correct of all that was written by commentators. Happy Holidays, too!
  • Asad
    Asad 18 January 2021 12: 14
    +8
    Soon it will be indecent to be straight in the USA, but in Russia it will be an atheist!
  • Lech from Android.
    Lech from Android. 18 January 2021 12: 23
    +8
    I have been to ancient Russian cities, each of them is beautiful in its own way, clean, well-groomed and very calm places for the Russian soul. Compared to urbanized Moscow, St. Petersburg is like a completely different civilization.
  • Flooding
    Flooding 18 January 2021 12: 23
    +5
    Question to the administration: for what purpose are you posting an article of a religious nature on the forum?
    Don't you know how this will end?
    Have no idea how much bad language she will attract to Orthodoxy?
    This has already happened in my memory more than once.
    Until now, warnings are hanging for an attempt to protect the right of people to believe.
    1. Asad
      Asad 18 January 2021 12: 36
      +8
      And I have warnings for being an atheist, but I totally agree with you, there is no place for such articles on this forum!
      1. Runway
        Runway 18 January 2021 12: 50
        +8
        An atheist is also a belief. So we are believers. winked And we also have feelings ...
        Rebuilding historical churches is a must, because it is a part of History and Art (architecture, icon painting).
        Novodely - does not arouse approval, because smacks of classics from "12 chairs".
        1. aleksejkabanets
          aleksejkabanets 18 January 2021 12: 53
          +8
          Quote: WFP
          An atheist is also a belief.

          You misunderstand atheism. Atheism is primarily a scientific approach to certain concepts.
          1. Flooding
            Flooding 18 January 2021 13: 12
            -8
            That is, faith in science?
            1. aleksejkabanets
              aleksejkabanets 18 January 2021 13: 21
              +10
              Quote: Flood
              That is, faith in science?

              The scientific approach lacks such a category as "faith". Is that clearer?
              1. Flooding
                Flooding 18 January 2021 13: 23
                -5
                Quote: aleksejkabanets
                The scientific approach lacks such a category as "faith". Is that clearer?

                Belief in a bright future?
                Belief in the unknown?
                Belief in the Big Bang?
                Belief in the infinity of the universe?
                Well, at least hope and love are not prohibited?
                1. aleksejkabanets
                  aleksejkabanets 18 January 2021 13: 27
                  +10
                  Quote: Flood
                  Belief in the Big Bang?
                  Belief in the infinity of the universe?

                  These are the postulates of hypotheses. Belief in a planetary gearbox, belief in a diesel engine, that's what I mean.
                  And philosophical categories and love, I think it is better to leave aside.
                  1. Flooding
                    Flooding 18 January 2021 13: 31
                    -7
                    Then specify which faith does not suit you.
                    And which one do you accept.
                    How do you feel about belief in an immortal soul and an afterlife?
                    1. aleksejkabanets
                      aleksejkabanets 18 January 2021 13: 33
                      +7
                      Quote: Flood
                      How do you feel about belief in an immortal soul and an afterlife?

                      No way. It is impossible to refute, to prove the same.
                      1. Flooding
                        Flooding 18 January 2021 13: 35
                        -8
                        Quote: aleksejkabanets
                        It is impossible to refute, to prove the same.

                        So you are an atheist or not, I don’t understand something.
                        After all, the situation with God is similar.
                      2. aleksejkabanets
                        aleksejkabanets 18 January 2021 15: 37
                        +7
                        Quote: Flood
                        After all, the situation with God is similar.

                        Of course. It is impossible to define this essence, and even more so to prove or disprove. After all, it was more about the fundamental difference between knowledge and faith. Knowledge presupposes a scientific approach; faith does not offer such an approach.
                      3. Flooding
                        Flooding 18 January 2021 15: 52
                        -5
                        Quote: aleksejkabanets
                        Knowledge involves a scientific approach

                        At the same time, it is important not to forget that the scientific approach not only allows the existence of theories and hypotheses that do not have theoretical evidence and factual confirmation.
                        But in the very system of the scientific approach, theories and hypotheses are the most important link and indicator of the further development of science.
                        That is, the unprovable and the imaginary goes into the realm of the purely material and practical.
                        Quote: aleksejkabanets
                        faith does not offer such an approach.

                        What surprises you? Truly so. Otherwise it can not be.
                        These are things of a different order.
                        After all, the primacy made man modern not only by the development of intelligence. But the development of intellectual abilities has steadily led to an increase in spiritual needs.
                        These are the two main categories that distinguish us from animals.
                      4. aleksejkabanets
                        aleksejkabanets 18 January 2021 16: 13
                        +6
                        Quote: Flood
                        That is, the unprovable and the imaginary goes into the realm of the purely material.

                        No, until proven or disproved goes over. And the unprovable and the imaginary are not scientific categories.
                        Quote: Flood
                        These are things of a different order.

                        That's what I wrote about, I completely agree. Or a scientific approach associated with knowledge, evidence, refutation, hypothesis, etc., or just faith. The worst thing is that with this "just faith" they climb into school, to our children. And this cannot but be alarming.
                      5. Flooding
                        Flooding 18 January 2021 16: 34
                        -5
                        Quote: aleksejkabanets
                        No, until proven or disproved goes over.

                        Sorry, this is a play on words.
                        If not proven, then it is not provable at the moment.
                        It would not be correct to say that what has not been proven has not been proven just yet.
                        Because it is not known whether it will be proven at all.
                        But if it is proved, then only in the future.
                        You are for science. And science loves precision and specificity.
                        Quote: aleksejkabanets
                        And the unprovable and the imaginary are not scientific categories.

                        What do you mean. And they say that chemistry grew out of alchemy.
                        And astronomy is from astrology.
                        So trust people after that.
                        Quote: aleksejkabanets
                        That's what I wrote about, I completely agree. Or a scientific approach associated with knowledge, evidence, refutation, hypothesis, etc., or just faith.

                        Don't rush to agree with me.
                        You are familiar with such a philosophical category as the unity and struggle of opposites, aren't you? In man, this dualism is inseparable.
                        Take spirituality out of it - you get a robot.
                        What would humanity be without writers, poets, painters, musicians?
                        The spiritual, creative side of human nature is not only closely related to his craving for knowledge, but is, in my opinion, an undoubted consequence of the development of human intelligence.
                      6. aleksejkabanets
                        aleksejkabanets 18 January 2021 16: 51
                        +6
                        Quote: Flood
                        Sorry, this is a play on words.

                        Is the universe unknowable or not yet known? This is not a play on words, these are principles.
                        Quote: Flood
                        What do you mean. And they say that chemistry grew out of alchemy.
                        And astronomy is from astrology.
                        So trust people after that.

                        What does this have to do with it? Philosophy is probably the same out of theology and theosophy.
                        Quote: Flood
                        Take spirituality out of it - you get a robot.

                        Spirituality and faith are completely different categories, how can you connect them? The pleasure of contemplating Monet's paintings and faith in God, what is the connection between them? Love and faith are not the same thing. I accept and respect the "New Testament", in terms of love, in terms of relationship to neighbor. Moreover, I do not share the concept of faith, blind and unconditional.
                      7. Flooding
                        Flooding 18 January 2021 17: 24
                        -2
                        Quote: aleksejkabanets
                        Is the universe unknowable or not yet known? This is not a play on words, these are principles.

                        In order to understand whether the Universe is knowable, you first need to at least understand whether it is infinite.
                        The infinite cannot be known by definition.
                        Quote: aleksejkabanets
                        What does this have to do with it? Philosophy is probably the same out of theology and theosophy.

                        Well, philosophy definitely has nothing to do with it. Because, strictly speaking, it is not a scientific discipline. But astronomy and chemistry are quite a science. Leading from the world of speculation and imagination
                        Quote: aleksejkabanets
                        And the unprovable and the imaginary are not scientific categories.

                        Quote: aleksejkabanets
                        The pleasure of contemplating Monet's paintings and faith in God, what is the connection between them?

                        The question will help you find an answer to this: what is human spirituality.
                        Spirituality is understood not only as a person's desire for creativity and his sense of beauty, but also his craving for justice, an impulse for virtue and self-sacrifice.
                        I hope I didn't discover America for you.
                      8. aleksejkabanets
                        aleksejkabanets 18 January 2021 17: 39
                        +4
                        Quote: Flood
                        Well, philosophy definitely has nothing to do with it. Because, strictly speaking, it is not a scientific discipline.

                        I think you are wrong about philosophy. And what difference does it make where astronomy and chemistry originate? Today these are quite established sciences.
                        Quote: Flood
                        The question will help you find an answer to this: what is human spirituality.

                        Probably we need to decide on the subject of the dispute, otherwise we have gone somewhere far.
                        Quote: Flood
                        Is the universe unknowable or not yet known? This is not a play on words, these are principles.

                        In order to understand whether the Universe is knowable, you first need to at least understand whether it is infinite.

                        Strictly speaking, I wrote that for the scientific approach there are no fundamentally unknowable things, there are only categories that are not yet known. And this is the fundamental principle of the scientific approach. And the example may not be very good.
                        PS I'm not giving you cons.
                      9. Flooding
                        Flooding 18 January 2021 17: 56
                        0
                        Quote: aleksejkabanets
                        I'm not giving you cons.

                        I didn’t favor you either.
                        So even.
                        The communication process is much more interesting to me. wink
                    2. Aviator_
                      Aviator_ 18 January 2021 19: 29
                      +2
                      Dear, the word "beзlimb "spelled out "WITH"... Continue the debate, very informative.
                    3. Flooding
                      Flooding 18 January 2021 19: 52
                      -3
                      Quote: Aviator_
                      Dear, the word "beзlimb "spelled out "WITH"... Continue the debate, very informative.

                      This is exactly what they teach in school.
                      But this post-reform spelling without-, without- gives words a completely different semantic coloring.
                      To us, modern people, it seems familiar.
                      But Turgenev, Pushkin or Lev Nikolaevich would have rebelled in the most natural way against such a distortion of the Russian language.
                    4. Aviator_
                      Aviator_ 18 January 2021 20: 08
                      +2
                      Well, you still remember the spelling of Lermontov's times - ... "and the mast bends and skrыpete ... "I didn't understand something, you were taught at school to write" beзlimb"?
                    5. Flooding
                      Flooding 18 January 2021 20: 15
                      -1
                      That's right - through the "s" before a voiceless consonant.
                      They remembered it amusingly.
                      But no. If, with the new spelling, the original was lost and a different, negative meaning was acquired, then I would think.
                    6. Aviator_
                      Aviator_ 18 January 2021 20: 17
                      +1
                      So what did "Z" write twice? For persuasiveness?
                    7. Flooding
                      Flooding 18 January 2021 20: 22
                      0
                      Quote: Aviator_
                      So what did "Z" write twice? For persuasiveness?

                      I don’t understand what two "s" we are talking about.
                      But it doesn't matter. Maybe where he was sealed.
                    8. Aviator_
                      Aviator_ 18 January 2021 21: 11
                      +1
                      Your post is from 13h 23min and fast from 17h 24min, both times through "Z" is written.
                    9. Flooding
                      Flooding 18 January 2021 21: 39
                      -2
                      Dear Aviator, I already explained that the prefix is ​​not written through the "z".
                      Because the immortal or the infinite is something from the bestiary.
                    10. Aviator_
                      Aviator_ 18 January 2021 21: 51
                      +3
                      Clear. You invent Newspeak. Good luck.
                    11. Flooding
                      Flooding 19 January 2021 07: 32
                      -2
                      Yes sir. Newspeak from the times of Chekhov.
                    12. Aviator_
                      Aviator_ 19 January 2021 08: 35
                      +1
                      Yes sir. Newspeak from the times of Chekhov.

                      Yeah. BeЗfinal - so Chekhov wrote?
                    13. Flooding
                      Flooding 19 January 2021 09: 07
                      -2
                      Quote: Aviator_
                      Yes sir. Newspeak from the times of Chekhov.

                      Yeah. BeЗfinal - so Chekhov wrote?

                      Before the reform of the Lunacharsky prefix, the demon did not exist.
                      This is not difficult to verify.
                    14. Aviator_
                      Aviator_ 19 January 2021 17: 40
                      +2
                      So this reform is more than 100 years old, and you still write in the old way?
                    15. Flooding
                      Flooding 19 January 2021 18: 16
                      -2
                      Quote: Aviator_
                      So this reform is more than 100 years old, and you still write in the old way?

                      As you may have noticed, I do not use pre-reform letters or pre-reform grammar in writing.
                      But everything should have its own logic.
                      The logic of that reform was officially to simplify writing.
                      Which, in view of the upcoming educational boom, made sense.
                      But one of the rules introduced by this reform, but which do not meet the declared goals, is the spelling without.
                      It is devoid of any meaning, since it complicated the spelling, while not having any reason for it.
                      None but one - the trolling of the church, which at that time was an implacable struggle.
                      As a result, we got distorted word formations, devoid of their original meaning. For me, language is more than a collection of sounds and symbols. This is our connection with our ancestors, going back centuries. And to dispose of this connection at the whim of the political situation is a betrayal.
  • didra
    didra 18 January 2021 19: 05
    -6
    Therefore, the atheist BELIEVES that there is no God.
  • aleksejkabanets
    aleksejkabanets 18 January 2021 19: 10
    +9
    Quote: didra
    Therefore, the atheist BELIEVES that there is no God.

    I'm embarrassed to ask, from what my comments did you make "such profound conclusions"?
  • didra
    didra 19 January 2021 08: 35
    -4
    From your own words.
  • aleksejkabanets
    aleksejkabanets 19 January 2021 08: 37
    +3
    Quote: didra
    From your own words.

    Which ones? Please quote if you find of course.
  • didra
    didra 19 January 2021 08: 44
    -3
    "It is impossible to define this essence, and even more so to prove or disprove" These are your words? From these words
    and from your declarative atheism it follows that you cannot prove, but believe - that there is no God.
  • aleksejkabanets
    aleksejkabanets 19 January 2021 09: 21
    +4
    Quote: didra
    "It is impossible to define this essence, and even more so to prove or disprove" These are your words? From these words
    and from your declarative atheism it follows that you cannot prove, but believe - that there is no God.

    You know, there is a saying: "When you look in a book you see a fig." Where is there about faith? You are out of order with the constructions of cause-and-effect relationships. Where did I even write about whether God exists or not? Determine first what (who) God is, what kind of essence it is, and then you can make some assumptions. The discussion in general was about knowledge and faith. And about the contradiction between the concept of "faith" and the concept of "knowledge", that is, the scientific picture of the world.
  • didra
    didra 20 January 2021 09: 03
    -2
    "Quote: WFP
    An atheist is also a belief.

    You misunderstand atheism. Atheism is primarily a scientific approach to certain concepts "
    Speaking in Russian, atheism is God-fighting or godlessness. So it was "about this."
    PS
    I am the I am. (Ex. 3:14)
  • Vladimir1155
    Vladimir1155 19 January 2021 13: 33
    -3
    what it reminds of "Ukraine is not Russia" they believe that Someone is not there ..... how can you believe that Someone is not if you have not yet walked around the entire universe and examined it thoroughly, penetrated into electrons and atoms and that's it I didn't see everything, didn't explain about the mumesons of the Higgs bosons?
  • Vladimir1155
    Vladimir1155 19 January 2021 13: 29
    -3
    an atheist is a schizophrenic (nothing that believes and has its own stereotypes dominants, there is no hierarchy of values ​​(evaluation of concepts) and a systematic consciousness that a glass to drink that a person to kill is all for him), if a person believes in something, then he either belongs to monotheistic religion or he is a pagan and believes his idols (for example, Emelyan of Yaroslavl (Guelman), the chairman of the union of militant atheists who was shot by Stalin rightly
  • Artyom Karagodin
    Artyom Karagodin 18 January 2021 20: 09
    -4
    Determining whether God exists or not is not so difficult. And this is quite possible by a scientific method, if you like. How do you know if there is someone in the room where the lights are off? Ask, "Is there anyone here?" So it is with God. Just asking such questions, you cannot have a ready-made answer in your head. And to be ready to accept ANY result, as in science, even the most impossible. And then, if there was no answer, one can draw conclusions. In my opinion, any atheism that has not been tested by this kind of experience is nothing more than faith. I just believe that God exists, and you BELIEVE that He does not exist. All the difference.
  • didra
    didra 19 January 2021 09: 18
    0
    Assume that I will not reply to your message. This does not mean that I am not. It doesn't even mean that I ran out of internet.
  • Simargl
    Simargl 18 January 2021 14: 04
    +8
    Quote: Flood
    How do you feel about belief in an immortal soul and an afterlife?
    What is "soul" - give a definition and we will consider.
    Afterlife? Is it like a living corpse? What does it mean?
    1. Flooding
      Flooding 18 January 2021 14: 12
      -2
      Quote: Simargl
      What is "soul" - give a definition and we will consider

      Why do you need it?
      First, define what or who God is.
      And what do you consider to be faith in him.
      Then let's talk about atheism.
    2. Simargl
      Simargl 18 January 2021 14: 18
      +4
      Quote: Flood
      Why do you need it?
      I did not understand something: you ask the question:
      Quote: Flood
      How do you feel about believing in an immortal soul
      I, not understanding what the soul is, trying to find out what it is. What if I am an ardent supporter of the phenomenon that you called a different language? Or, for example, I'm not sure about the word beзmortal - what does it mean?

      Quote: Flood
      First, define what or who God is.
      I AM?!
      I only know that a lot has been written about him, but as a physical phenomenon (watch / talk) - no one succeeded in repeating it.
    3. Flooding
      Flooding 18 January 2021 14: 23
      +1
      Quote: Simargl
      I didn't understand something

      Just because they didn't bother reading the correspondence.
      The question of the soul arose only in connection with the discussion of the topic of faith in atheism.
    4. Simargl
      Simargl 18 January 2021 14: 26
      +3
      Quote: Flood
      because they have not lost their correspondence by reading.
      What? belay

      Quote: Flood
      The question of the soul arose only in connection with the discussion of the topic of faith in atheism.
      Well, for a start, you need to decide who invests what in the meaning, and then you can give an answer. If we talk about different subjects - what is the point in that?
    5. Flooding
      Flooding 18 January 2021 14: 39
      -1
      Quote: Simargl
      What?

      Do not wonder. This feature on a tablet is called something like autocomplete. It is not always possible to double-check what is written later.
      Quote: Simargl
      Well, for a start, you need to decide who invests what in the meaning, and then you can give an answer. If we talk about different subjects - what is the point in that?

      Totally agree with you. But since you and I did not have any subject for a dispute, is there a need to delve into the thicket, forest and jungle of definitions and concepts?
      I think no. Since for the superficial exchange of injections inherent in the forum format, the spirit and the idea are important, in other words, short remarks that set the tone and are not devoid of meaning.
    6. Simargl
      Simargl 18 January 2021 14: 57
      +2
      Quote: Flood
      I have with you
      Everyone can write on the fence.

      Quote: Flood
      is there a need to delve into the thicket, wilderness and jungle of definitions and concepts?
      If only from the position "do you believe in the soul?" - so of course I do! There is such a word!
    7. Flooding
      Flooding 18 January 2021 15: 09
      -1
      Well, fine.
  • Flooding
    Flooding 18 January 2021 20: 25
    -1
    Quote: Simargl
    I'm not sure about the word immortal - what does it mean?

    What you thought of.
  • BAI
    BAI 18 January 2021 19: 03
    +1
    what or who is God.

    How can you decide what is not?
  • Flooding
    Flooding 18 January 2021 19: 13
    0
    Quote: BAI
    How can you decide what is not?

    God is a word for something.
    You have to define what that something means in order to understand whether it is or not.
    Quite simple as you can see.
  • Simargl
    Simargl 18 January 2021 20: 50
    0
    Quote: BAI
    How can you decide what is not?
    How is it? Someone comes up with something unattainable at the moment, and the descendants are surprised how much the "prophecies" coincided.
  • BAI
    BAI 18 January 2021 19: 01
    0
    Belief in a bright future?

    Who proved that it is light?
    Belief in the unknown?
    = faith in God (the ways of the Lord are inscrutable)
    Belief in the Big Bang?

    How the Big Burst differs from any other hypothesis of the creation of the world. Including biblical?
    Belief in the infinity of the universe?

    How is it different from belief in the finiteness of the universe?
    If you have to believe in the Big Bang, then what happened before the Big Bang?
    1. Flooding
      Flooding 18 January 2021 19: 14
      -2
      Quote: BAI
      How the Big Burst differs from any other hypothesis of the creation of the world. Including biblical?

      The fact that atheists are ready to believe in the first version, but they do not want to believe in the second.
    2. Vladimir1155
      Vladimir1155 19 January 2021 13: 37
      -3
      Quote: BAI
      How the Big Burst differs from any other hypothesis of the creation of the world. Including biblical?

      the fact that the creation of the universe by the big bang method is physically impossible, as well as the creation of a man from a monkey according to Darwin, which has already been denied even by Darwinists for a long time
  • Runway
    Runway 18 January 2021 13: 16
    +2
    Then is faith anti-scientific? An atheist will not kill an atheist for being a 9/10 atheist. “We are in paradise, and they just ....” - the words of a suddenly believed atheist. laughing
    I do not participate in the disputes between pointed and blunt points.
    How!
  • Odysseus
    Odysseus 18 January 2021 13: 25
    +3
    Quote: aleksejkabanets
    You misunderstand atheism. Atheism is primarily a scientific approach to certain concepts

    You are both wrong smile
    Atheism - a (negative particle) - theism (belief in a single god) - denial of belief in a single god.
    Materialism is a philosophical teaching about the primacy of matter over an idea.
    Anticlericalism is a critical attitude towards the church as a public organization.
    Another thing is that often these terms are given a completely different meaning than they originally had.
    1. Foul skeptic
      Foul skeptic 18 January 2021 14: 38
      +2
      theism (belief in one god)

      θεος - god
      Therefore, for religions with "one god" add μονος (one), or, the term we are accustomed to - monotheism.
      1. Odysseus
        Odysseus 18 January 2021 15: 22
        -1
        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
        θεος - god
        Therefore, for religions with "one god" add μονος (one), or, the term we are accustomed to - monotheism.

        And so and so they understand. Initially, all the same, belief in one God. For example, pantheists were once also accused of godlessness, although in our current everyday understanding they can not be called atheists.
        Now, you are right, theism is rather understood simply as an idea of ​​God. Accordingly, atheism is the denial of the idea of ​​God, not of faith, not of the church, but precisely of the idea, and there can be many reasons for such denial.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  • Artyom Karagodin
    Artyom Karagodin 18 January 2021 20: 05
    -2
    But here I disagree. Einstein, Niels Bohr, Ivan Pavlov, Mendel and many others were scientists, but they did not rank themselves as atheists.
  • Avior
    Avior 18 January 2021 12: 57
    +11
    An atheist is also a belief.

    if. try an atheist to sue a religious procession for publicly insulting religious feelings - you will immediately find out that atheists, they are unbelievers and they have no feelings. And therefore, let them endure!
    smile
    1. didra
      didra 18 January 2021 19: 22
      -1
      Atheists did everything to prevent Russia from
      became the Church. And they almost succeeded - by monstrous lies and monstrous violence. Until 1917 we were a Christian people, and now, on the eve of Epiphany in Russian, in Russia, Russian people are trying to mock God and their roots. Therefore, in our country, talk of insulting the feelings of atheists is hypocrisy.
      1. Avior
        Avior 18 January 2021 21: 13
        +5
        Do you know the classic history of the Russian Orthodox Church about how the Kiev prince made a decision, in whom we will believe?
        The fun of Russia is piti, we cannot be without that

        Simple and straightforward.

        Those dissatisfied with the new faith were drowned in the Dnieper, the rest were baptized there.
        But we had our own faith, and it was by no means Christianity - that's where our roots are, if you don't know.

        And as for 1917, the church before the revolution was comfortably settled as part of the state system, it is not surprising that the distribution fell, like other parts of the state system, except for firefighters, perhaps who is outside politics, for sure, this had no direct relation to issues of faith ...

        And now you decided because of those events a hundred years ago that modern atheists are second-class people and have no right to feelings?
        1. Vladimir1155
          Vladimir1155 19 January 2021 13: 41
          -1
          before the baptism of Russia there was no, there were scattered tribes that were at enmity and killing each other, for in each village there was an idol. The light of Orthodoxy united people, enlightened, sanctified and created great Russia
          1. Avior
            Avior 20 January 2021 20: 52
            +3
            Well, we are such savages that we had few Varangians to create statehood, so did we also need Greeks?
            Who interfered with the same methods of struggle against those unwilling to plant Perun or Dazhbog in the same places?
            1. Vladimir1155
              Vladimir1155 20 January 2021 20: 55
              -1
              our teaching is omnipotent because it is true! this is the difference between the Eternal From the Beginning and the Creator of everything and invented idols like the Daj of God and others
        2. didra
          didra 20 January 2021 16: 04
          0
          You dug too deep somehow. But okay, let's try to figure it out. 1) On the choice of faith.

          The phrase you quoted is just one episode - the refusal to the Islamic ambassadors, and not the reason for the adoption of Christianity. It can be assumed (and quite confidently) that the answer was that the customs of the retinue were unthinkable without feasts and the prince risked being left without a retinue, or even worse. This is a politician's answer! In addition, one must take into account that this dialogue was recorded many decades later, for whom the historical correctness of Vladimir was obvious. And this is not our contemporary with you, he looks at the world differently than we do, and differently places accents in the narrative.

          2) About the drowned. I will not argue that the Christianization of the Eastern Slavs took place without violence, but it could only be civil violence (not ecclesiastical) and in very limited aisles. Why? Firstly, canonically, the condition for valid baptism is faith in Christ and the voluntary intention to be baptized. Secondly, in those days people in Russia did not think of themselves separately about the family, clan, tribe to which they belonged. And if the tribal union accepted Vladimir's baptism, then its members, as a rule, also adopted this decision as a law. Another question is that not all tribes immediately accepted it. Zalesye, for example, resisted for a long time. Hence the third reason: Vladimir was often forced to act not from a position of strength, but by persuasion, promises, etc. I want to note that of course most of those baptized by Vladimir were not (most likely) people who understood the Church's doctrine well. However, this was the mission of the Russian Church - to educate the Christian people. The process of Christianization (churching) of Rus took several centuries and during this time the Russian people were formed.
          1. Avior
            Avior 20 January 2021 20: 58
            +3
            ... this dialogue was recorded many decades later, a person for whom the historical correctness of Vladimir was obvious

            Still would. It was written in the monastery.
            And the question of choosing a faith came down to the convenience of using it for everyday household needs - the convenience of maintaining a squad.
            This means that there is nothing special about the fact that if atheism is more convenient, everyone switches to atheism by the same methods as to Christianity at one time.
            1. didra
              didra 20 January 2021 21: 05
              -1
              Where else could it be written? You twist. It is impossible to draw conclusions from distortions. How is it more convenient?
        3. didra
          didra 20 January 2021 19: 52
          0
          Continue.
          Paganism was not a Russian faith. The Eastern Slavs were pagans, not the Russians. Moreover, different tribal unions could have different pantheons of gods. Varangians, Finno-Ugrians, Alans also had their own gods. It is an exceptional task to collect these groups scattered over a vast territory into a single state. We all know that our land today does not allow many "partners" to sleep peacefully. And then there were even more of them. So it turns out that either Islam, or Judaism, or Christianity could tie Russia into a single whole

          3) Synodal period (1721-1917). Inside the Russian Church has a mixed assessment. In fact, it was about the invasion of the secular westernized state into the ecclesiastical sphere and subordination
          her (deprivation of independence). This had very unpleasant consequences. One of them is the humiliated (and materially too) position of the white priesthood. So, no "snickering priests of the world eaters."
          And they got the hell out of it, as you pleased to put it, the peasants, the tsar, the firemen, the teachers, etc. Because the guilt is common! Even your misunderstanding is part of the ongoing racking. But this is a separate conversation.

          4) No one in the church says that an atheist is always an enemy or an inferior person. The term atheist itself requires clarification. There are unbelievers and there are fighters against God (militant atheists). In modern Russia, religious organizations operate within the legal framework - this is normal. All contradictions must be resolved in this field. At the same time, the identity of its people has the right to protect. If the formation of Russians took place in the mainstream of the church tradition, then everyone living in Russia must be reckoned with. Even if you don't want to.

          I apologize for the verbosity, but as I said, you dug deep.
    2. Artyom Karagodin
      Artyom Karagodin 18 January 2021 20: 29
      -5
      By the way, initially the law was supposed to be called "On the Protection of Freedom of Conscience", something like that. In my opinion, formally, he remained so. But the essence of it is only that the feelings of believers cannot be insulted. It seems to me that it would be right if it were impossible to speak offensively not only about someone else's faith, but also about its absence. It makes no difference whether it is done in relation to a believer or an atheist. This is my opinion as a believer.
  • aleksejkabanets
    aleksejkabanets 18 January 2021 12: 43
    +12
    Quote: Flood
    Until now, warnings are hanging for an attempt to protect the right of people to believe.

    People's right to atheism will soon have to be defended.
    1. Flooding
      Flooding 18 January 2021 12: 48
      -5
      Quote: aleksejkabanets
      People's right to atheism will soon have to be defended.

      If you think that your rights are being violated - be sure to protect!
      By legal means, of course.
      1. Mordvin 3
        Mordvin 3 18 January 2021 13: 02
        +1
        Quote: Flood
        If you think that your rights are being violated - be sure to protect!
        By legal means, of course.

        I once read a book "The Atheist's Handbook" There they have well printed about relegia.
        1. Flooding
          Flooding 18 January 2021 13: 09
          0
          Quote: Mordvin 3
          I once read a book "The Atheist's Handbook" There they have well printed about relegia.

          Huh, surprised. Now out of three, every two consider themselves atheists.
          And without any reference books.
          Read more, see what you've decided.
          1. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 18 January 2021 13: 13
            +2
            Quote: Flood
            Now out of three, every two consider themselves atheists.

            No, the guide was for the Komsomol members. Like a textbook. I took it from a neighbor, he was a Komsomol organizer.
            1. Flooding
              Flooding 18 January 2021 13: 19
              0
              Quote: Mordvin 3
              No, the guide was for Komsomol members

              But with the Komsomol, my friend, it's a real trouble.
              There are few of them left.
              Wherever I have disappeared, I don’t know.
              I also had acquaintances along this line.
              Immediately after the collapse, some moved to the western lands, using ... no, do not think that the atheist's directory is a phone book with the phone numbers of senior members.
              Someone went into business. Oh, those Komsomol members of the 80s.
              Not like Pavka Korchagin.
              1. Mordvin 3
                Mordvin 3 18 January 2021 13: 36
                +2
                Quote: Flood
                But with the Komsomol, my friend, it's a real trouble.
                There are few of them left.

                He died. The hospital did not complete his treatment, he was poisoned home, but at home he died.
        2. Vladimir1155
          Vladimir1155 19 January 2021 13: 43
          -3
          Quote: Mordvin 3
          The Atheist's Handbook

          but where did you get this nonsense then it turns out ..... you believe in books?
          1. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 19 January 2021 13: 56
            +2
            Quote: vladimir1155
            but where did you get this nonsense then it turns out ..... you believe in books?

            Differently. I hope for my forty years of experience in reading books. Moreover, I read every day. I swallow medium-sized books during the night.
            1. Vladimir1155
              Vladimir1155 19 January 2021 14: 32
              -2
              Quote: Mordvin 3
              I swallow medium-sized books during the night.

              you need more independence in thinking and life ... get out of this circle .... stop living the virtual life of fictional heroes .... Ronald Barth believed that the verb "read" means loading other people's thoughts into your mind .... a birch bark letter was found in ancient Novgorod, and Academician Likhachev introduced it to his collection ... great is the wisdom of an ancient man! "resentment pisa, ignorant chita" this is apparently a wise mentor weaned a stupid youth from believing everything that was written, I know myself, I wrote a lot, "Chukchi is a writer and not a reader" .... however, this is written in Deuteronomy Chapter 28 "you will be your head, and not a tail. "
              1. Mordvin 3
                Mordvin 3 19 January 2021 14: 48
                +1
                Quote: vladimir1155
                you need more independence in thinking and life ... get out of this circle ... stop living the virtual life of fictional characters ...

                Why is it immediately fictional? I like the memoirs much more. Attack, this is fun.
                Quote: vladimir1155
                however, it is written in Deuteronomy Chapter 28, "you will be the head, and not the tail."

                Also fiction.
                Quote: vladimir1155
                I know myself, I wrote a lot, "the Chukchi are a writer, not a reader" ...

                Bravo! Do you think I wrote a little? winked
                1. Vladimir1155
                  Vladimir1155 19 January 2021 14: 55
                  -1
                  Quote: Mordvin 3
                  Also fiction

                  what fiction?
                  1. Vladimir1155
                    Vladimir1155 19 January 2021 14: 56
                    -2
                    just in the memoirs there are even more lies about oneself beloved, especially among the fishermen!
                    1. Mordvin 3
                      Mordvin 3 19 January 2021 16: 09
                      0
                      Quote: vladimir1155
                      just in the memoirs there are even more lies about oneself beloved, especially among the fishermen!

                      And read the hero of Russia, A. Zaripov. "Partai-genosse", for example. Or "Dembel Chord". A blind person seems to have no reason to lie. He lost his sight during Raduev's breakthrough into Chechnya. One of my favorite authors.
                    2. Vladimir1155
                      Vladimir1155 19 January 2021 17: 37
                      +1
                      Quote: Mordvin 3
                      And read the hero of Russia, A. Zaripov.

                      I respect those!
      2. populist
        populist 19 January 2021 19: 19
        0
        Mordvin 3 (Vladimir)
        I once read a book "The Atheist's Handbook" There they have well printed about relegia.

        It would be interesting to read.
        In Soviet times, scientific atheistic literature was published. I have The Atheistic Dictionary and some other books. I used the facts from these books to educate the wandering preachers of various sects and religions, of whom quite a few wandered along the streets of St. Petersburg in the 90s. If they themselves molested.
    2. Asad
      Asad 18 January 2021 13: 02
      +2
      Interestingly, the girls are dancing, so the author wrote and published an article about Vera, everything is fine! If I write something opposite, then immediately a warning and a ban! And how to defend legally?
      1. Flooding
        Flooding 18 January 2021 13: 11
        +2
        Quote: ASAD
        If I write something opposite, then immediately a warning and a ban!

        The opposite of light is dark. To the clever - stupid.
        Better not the opposite.
        You already write something good-quality to catch, and make your thoughts spin.
        Then we will stand by the whole world to protect you from the malicious administration.
      2. Odysseus
        Odysseus 18 January 2021 14: 05
        +3
        Quote: ASAD
        Interestingly, the girls are dancing, so the author wrote and published an article about Vera, everything is fine!

        He's not about faith, he wrote about buildings. If he had written about the postulates of faith, it would hardly have been published .. But fortunately, judging by what has been written, regarding the postulates of Christianity, the author is happily ignorant.
        And then I do not really understand your criticism, I have not read a more anti-clerical article for a long time.
        Even Emelyan Yaroslavsky would have blushed from such a mocking trolling.
      3. The comment was deleted.
      4. Artyom Karagodin
        Artyom Karagodin 18 January 2021 20: 33
        -3
        The opposite is that the temple, built by Admiral Spiridov, needs to be destroyed, and the place where he stood should be plowed up? What do you mean by "opposite". The material was written by a believer, this is clear, but he was not writing a sermon, but an appeal to help preserve the temple, built by an outstanding Russian naval commander. Or any mention of faith offends you)))?
    3. Avior
      Avior 18 January 2021 21: 15
      +5
      There is no such way, the rights of atheists are not recognized by the state at the suggestion of believers.
      1. Vladimir1155
        Vladimir1155 19 January 2021 13: 46
        -2
        Quote: Avior
        atheist rights

        the right to whatever, no one bothers you to be at least someone, lie on the couch and be an atheist, and if you gather with atheists like you in the crowd, then you can all be atheists together, no one bothers you to be ... this article? they are not written about you
  • Vladimir1155
    Vladimir1155 19 January 2021 13: 24
    -2
    because faith is a weapon, and the most important thing is to read Alexander Suvorov, Stalin, it was not in vain that they cared about the soul of a soldier
  • ALARI
    ALARI 18 January 2021 12: 24
    +9
    God and those who have arrogated to themselves to speak on His behalf are two completely different things.
  • rocket757
    rocket757 18 January 2021 12: 25
    +8
    However, as a person baptized in the Russian Church, I will speak here just about the attitude towards our churches, chapels, cathedrals and temples.

    How simple a MAN, I want to say, let us take good care of our history, traditions and PEOPLE! This is the most important thing.
  • Odysseus
    Odysseus 18 January 2021 12: 25
    +4
    A-ha-ha, this is trolling. Credit to the author. Just level 99.
    Well, here, of course, even a member of the Union of Militant Atheists would be uncomfortable. They still propagandized, not blasphemed.
  • Konnick
    Konnick 18 January 2021 12: 26
    +3
    Now we would impose a moratorium on the construction of any objects of religions of all confessions, otherwise we will turn into a Muslim country. Please restore, but not build. And you can live without temples.
  • Konnick
    Konnick 18 January 2021 12: 28
    +4
    Quote: kalibr
    Quote: Valerikk
    There will soon be more temples than schools and hospitals put together .. Why so many?

    In our Penza region, one person is building a church. Yes, he has money. And that's why the church is very beautiful. And it's nice to look at her. And remember ... yes, the commandments. It would be worth building for that alone, huh?

    Surely this one has a lot of sins, maybe he killed people, there is nothing to be touched by here, from where he had money to find out.
  • Andre___86
    Andre___86 18 January 2021 12: 29
    +5
    It would be better if the hospitals were built and equipped. Lenin was right - opium for the people.
    Believing not believing is everyone's business, but the religion is opium and, for a long time, business ...
    1. Odysseus
      Odysseus 18 January 2021 12: 37
      +3
      Quote: Andre___86
      It would be better if the hospitals were built and equipped. Lenin was right - opium for the people.
      Believing not believing is everyone's business, but the religion is opium and, for a long time, business ...

      This is of course true. Just, excuse me, two clarifications
      The first is Marx.
      The second is not for the people, but for the people. "Religious squalor is at the same time an expression of real squalor and a protest against this real squalor. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of soulless order. Religion is the opium of the people."
      That is, it is not just brought to us, although this is a fact, religion is an ideal tool for managing the herd by "good oligarchs", it is also a necessary element of people's self-awareness at a certain stage of social development.
      1. Andre___86
        Andre___86 18 January 2021 14: 05
        +2
        Perhaps I read this phrase from Lenin. Apparently he had this quote. )))
    2. Asad
      Asad 18 January 2021 12: 38
      0
      Wait for a warning!
    3. Simargl
      Simargl 18 January 2021 13: 00
      +4
      Quote: Andre___86
      Lenin is opium for the people.
      You are confusing something: Lenin is the leader of the world proletariat, and opium for the people is religion.
      Quote: J.J. Russo
      Piety ... is opium for the soul; it invigorates, revitalizes and sustains when taken little by little; in too strong doses lulls, or leads to madness, or kills
      In the form in which everyone quotes it, Marx expressed it.
  • Daniil Konovalenko
    Daniil Konovalenko 18 January 2021 12: 32
    +8
    In the course of atheists, obscurantists, they will soon be prosecuted for their views ... First, an atheist, and then you look LGBT. It is not for nothing that many former communists and real ones became true Orthodox .. laughing
    1. aleksejkabanets
      aleksejkabanets 18 January 2021 12: 50
      +7
      Quote: Daniil Konovalenko
      In the course of atheists-obscurantists, they will soon be prosecuted for their views ..

      Exactly, exactly. Then in the textbooks they will write that the earth is flat and stands on three whales. And burn those who disagree like heretics.))))))
      1. Daniil Konovalenko
        Daniil Konovalenko 18 January 2021 12: 59
        +8
        It may well be. This is a binding article. For what we will die, for the churches… You can feel the strong hand of the former political worker, whom he pointed out in the first commentary. Not against churches, the Russian Orthodox Church must create jobs for its graduates… Well done, they care. .not divorced. And not like the neighbors, the son entered some Diplomatic Institute in Krasnodar, neighbors, nose to the top, the diplomat will be taken to the Foreign Ministry .. smile He graduated, he did not get to the Foreign Ministry, like the others, he works in a store selling sports goods ... he does not go to school, he says they pay more in the store. laughing
      2. Stirbjorn
        Stirbjorn 18 January 2021 14: 03
        +8
        Quote: aleksejkabanets
        And burn those who disagree like heretics.))))))

        And those who agree to all the questions have the same answer - "Pray, fast and listen to radio" Radonezh " wassat
        1. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 18 January 2021 14: 18
          +4
          Quote: Stirbjorn
          listen to radio "Radonezh" "

          It is not far off. The Chinese are even better heard.
      3. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 18 January 2021 15: 00
        +6
        Quote: aleksejkabanets
        Exactly, exactly. Then in the textbooks they will write that the earth is flat and stands on three whales. And burn those who disagree like heretics.))))))

        And here is the first heretic! For it is said: "The earth rests on four elephants that stand on a turtle". smile
        1. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 18 January 2021 15: 07
          +4
          Quote: Alexey RA
          For it is said: "The earth rests on four elephants that stand on a turtle."

          Standing on a whale. I remember that exactly. I read when I was six.
      4. Vladimir1155
        Vladimir1155 19 January 2021 13: 50
        -3
        here it is blatant illiteracy! according to the Bible it is written even before the new era in the book of Job, "God hung the earth on nothing" .. and your stupid science laughed at the believers and claimed that there are three whales and that the earth is flat ... so you are deeply mistaken
    2. Simargl
      Simargl 18 January 2021 13: 05
      +7
      Quote: Daniil Konovalenko
      First, an atheist, and then you look LGBT.
      Most LGBT people are very religious. Scandals with Catholic priests are not even scandals, but a trend.

      Quote: Daniil Konovalenko
      It is not for nothing that many former communists and real ones became true Orthodox ..
      The word "real" is missing before "communists". Although it is more correct to call opportunists, this is a private opinion.
      1. Flooding
        Flooding 19 January 2021 10: 12
        0
        Quote: Simargl
        Most LGBT people are very religious.

        Fortunately, I don't know them closely.
        Otherwise, God forbid, they will recruit ... to Catholicism
        1. Simargl
          Simargl 19 January 2021 11: 19
          0
          Be careful with expressions: it can be very misunderstood.
          1. Flooding
            Flooding 19 January 2021 11: 21
            0
            Quote: Simargl
            Be careful with expressions: it can be very misunderstood.

            What is a hint of your acquaintance with them?
            No way.
            1. Simargl
              Simargl 19 January 2021 11: 26
              +1
              Quote: Flood
              What is a hint of your acquaintance with them?
              Catholics? Sign. Even with LGBT people. Even with trances. LGBT and trans people, however, are not part of the social circle.
              I myself am neither one nor the other, I am not, if that.
              But you misunderstood me.
              1. Flooding
                Flooding 19 January 2021 11: 27
                -2
                Quote: Simargl
                But you misunderstood me.

                I don’t know wink wink
            2. Vladimir1155
              Vladimir1155 19 January 2021 13: 53
              -3
              Quote: Flood
              What is a hint of your acquaintance with them?

              for sure, he was with him himself, he saw everything, knows for sure and participated ... probably ... otherwise he would not have definitely stated
  • Konnick
    Konnick 18 January 2021 12: 39
    +6
    And one should not admire the restoration of the New Jerusalem Church either. The bell tower was blown up by our sappers in 41, by order of Rokossovsky, the Germans used it for zeroing. The Nazis did not do much harm there. And it was unfinished before the revolution. Now they have completed the construction, cut down the age-old spruce and have spawned a bunch of traders on the territory.
  • Gardamir
    Gardamir 18 January 2021 12: 44
    +3
    The road to each Temple is important for us


  • Old electrician
    Old electrician 18 January 2021 12: 44
    +16
    Religion is what keeps the poor from killing the rich.

    - Napoleon Bonaparte
    1. Daniil Konovalenko
      Daniil Konovalenko 18 January 2021 13: 00
      +6
      Very true smile
    2. Vladimir1155
      Vladimir1155 19 January 2021 13: 56
      -4
      and this is what keeps the strong (the rich also from killing the poor and the weak ... so I am smarter than the foolish Bonaparte and more logical! .... what is it to keep the weak from attacking the strong compared to saving the poor from the strong?
  • The comment was deleted.
  • tatra
    tatra 18 January 2021 13: 01
    +8
    I am Russian, baptized, from a religious family. Under Soviet rule, I had a normal attitude towards religion and religious people - well, people go to church, pray, well, let them if they need it. BUT the enemies of the communists made me a convinced atheist after their capture of Russia, especially their priests, their behavior, their attitude towards Russia and the Russian people, towards the history of our country and people.
    1. Vladimir1155
      Vladimir1155 19 January 2021 13: 57
      -4
      I myself am a Crimean daughter of an officer ..... not all of them mean
  • Olgovich
    Olgovich 18 January 2021 13: 33
    -11%
    Great article, many thanks to the author, Valentin Malyutin. hi

    I really hope that the author will continue this infinitely interesting, wonderful topic!

    For my part, I want to note that this year marks a terrible anniversary: ​​exactly 110 years ago, the most important was blown up by non-humans, withThe most significant monument in Russia: the monument to the Heroes of the Great Patriotic War of 1812-Cathedral of Christ the Savior.

    Marble boards with the names of the Heroes were ground into crushed stone so that the Russians would forget their history, Glory and memory.
    steps of the Tretyakov Gallery from the marble boards of Heroes, which were walked by unsuspecting citizens.

    The same happened with many other monuments of Russia.

    As for the ruined, blown up, opened tombs, tombs of Heroes, it was generally a tradition: these are the graves of Pozharsky, Minin, Bagration, Nakhimov, Lazarev, Istomin, Radetsky, etc., etc.
    1. Gardamir
      Gardamir 18 January 2021 13: 37
      +5
      it was generally a tradition


    2. Simargl
      Simargl 18 January 2021 14: 51
      +2
      Quote: Olgovich
      exactly 110 years ago
      How is it in the future? As usual - worse than now?
    3. Old electrician
      Old electrician 19 January 2021 13: 55
      +2
      This year marks a terrible anniversary: ​​exactly 110 years ago, the most important, most significant monument in Russia was blown up by non-humans: the monument to the Heroes of the Great Patriotic War of 1812 - the Cathedral of Christ the Savior.

      The Cathedral Cathedral of Christ the Savior was founded on September 23, 1839, consecrated - May 26, 1883, destroyed on December 5, 1931. This is a remake for 48 years. This age is not enough to be recognized as a historical monument.
      Originally won by Karl Witberg's project. They decided to build on the Sparrow Hills, where for this they demolished the Vorobyov Palace, built in 1690, and three churches of the XNUMXth century.
      The temple was laid on October 12, 1817. In the first 7 years, even the foundation was not completed. The money went “no one knows where” (later the commission counted the waste of almost a million rubles). In 1825, construction was stopped, Witberg and the construction managers were accused of embezzlement and put on trial.
      According to the new temple, they began to build in 1839 on the site of the Alekseevsky women's monastery - a monument of the XNUMXth century, which was just as safely demolished. The evicted abbess of the Alekseevsk monastery cursed this place and predicted that nothing would stand on it for long.
      Thus, next year marks a terrible anniversary: ​​exactly 205 years ago, non-humans demolished 4 monuments of the 3th century, including 182 Orthodox churches, and XNUMX years ago, a XNUMXth-century monastery was also demolished to them.

      Thank God this is impossible these days. Plants and factories were simply demolished or turned into ruins by entire industrial sectors. But with the construction of mosques, everything is in order.
      With a patriotic upbringing, we are also OK. The whole of Siberia is filled with monuments to the Czechoslovak punishers, but almost all of the monuments to Siberian partisans were demolished. In the places of the past battles of the Great Patriotic War, there are monuments to the Italian occupants, which come to honor the Italian fascists and our patriotic community. Memorial plaques are put on the part of the Cossacks from the Waffen SS, the traitors to Russia Kolchak, Krasnov, etc. If not for the stormy public outrage, St. Petersburg would have been decorated with a memorial plaque in honor of Mannerheim - the killer and executioner of hundreds of thousands of Leningrad residents. The only pity is that by the bicentennial of the 1812 war, not a single monument in her honor has been erected in Russia.
      As for the broken memorial tablets from the temple, this is easily explained. At the time of the collapse of the Russian Empire, its army was split by fierce mutual hatred. Any officer considered it normal to hit a soldier or sailor in the teeth. This was not condemned, but morally encouraged by his colleagues and was called "to clean the nose." Little of. In 1915, corporal punishment was introduced in the warring army to maintain discipline. The snotty lieutenant, for some trifle, could whip any soldier - the venerable father of a family with a bunch of children. Therefore, in February 1917, when the tsar was overthrown, everything collapsed and the White Shepherds began to kill with all the proletarian hatred. A.I. Denikin:
      The connection between the officers and the soldiers was already fundamentally broken, discipline was undermined, and since then the troops of the Petrograd district until their last days represented the oprichnina, weighing with their brute and dark force over the Provisional Government. Subsequently, all the efforts of Guchkov, Kornilov and Stavka to influence them or bring them to the front remained in vain, meeting sharp resistance from the Soviet.

      Naturally, this hatred also spread to everything that these white-runners were proud of. It took the people a long enough time to understand the commonality of Russian history. An example of a change in attitudes are the films "Peter the First" (1937), "Alexander Nevsky" (1938, etc.).
      In 1947, the 800th anniversary of Moscow was celebrated as the anniversary of the SOVIET capital, in 1956, the 300th anniversary of the reunification of Ukraine with Russia was a celebration of the brotherhood of the two UNION republics. But when in 1962 the 150th anniversary of the war of 1812 was celebrated, the celebration of this anniversary became the celebration of the first solemn date of pre-revolutionary history celebrated in the USSR without any abusive mentions of tsarism, almost the same as it was in honor of the 100th anniversary in 1912 -m year.
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 19 January 2021 14: 50
        -3
        Quote: Old electrician
        This age is not enough to be recognized as a historical monument.

        Didn't get it, I see: this Monument-Temple to the OV 1812 HEROES! With their names, shelves, etc.

        Temple holiday - Victory Day (Christmas) in OV 1812

        And it doesn't matter what year it was built.
        Quote: Old electrician
        Plants and factories were simply demolished or turned into ruins.

        Who needs that hopelessly outdated old stuff?
        Quote: Old electrician
        to the traitors of Russia Kolchak

        Traitors are those who fought with him: they are stabbed in the back his homeland at war with the invaders, having concluded a betrayal with them
        Quote: Old electrician
        As for the broken memorial tablets from the temple, this is easily explained. At the time of the collapse of the Russian Empire, its army was split by fierce mutual hatred. Any officer considered it normal to hit a soldier or sailor in the teeth.

        What kind of nonsense? The temple was demolished by the decision not of the soldiers, but of the AUTHORITIES in the peaceful 1931
        Quote: Old electrician
        In 1947, the 800th anniversary of Moscow was celebrated as an anniversary SOVIET capital Cities,

        lol laughing Moscow -Russian city ​​for over SEVEN centuries, what is it ...
        Quote: Old electrician
        in 1956, the 300th anniversary of the reunification of Ukraine with Russia was a celebration of the brotherhood of the two UNION republics.

        And who allowed to divide Russia into some .... two sovereign republics? belay
        1. Old electrician
          Old electrician 19 January 2021 15: 54
          +1
          Everything is clear with you. For you, Russians are only those who were Vlasovites and served as policemen. Therefore, it is naive to expect that you will be indignant at the monuments of the invaders who want to destroy Russia. I will tell you about one such monument.
          On June 28, 1916 (old style), under the direct patronage of the British intelligence resident in Russia, Colonel Samuel Hoare, and the British ambassador to the Russian Empire, Buchanan Kolchak, was appointed commander of the Black Sea Fleet. This was not at all an act of charity by the "allies" in favor of the "talented" naval commander. Such an appointment should be viewed exclusively through the prism of the fact that the so-called "allies" were and are the eternal bitter enemies of Russia.
          From the memoirs of the British ambassador to Russia Buchanan:
          "... The palace coup was discussed openly, and at dinner at the embassy one of my Russian friends, who held a high position in the government, told me that the only question was whether both the emperor and the empress would be killed or only the last ..."
          - with such allies there is no need for enemies!
          Winston Churchill on his planned future of the Russian Empire:
          "... All legitimate aspirations can be satisfied within a single Russia - a state consisting of several autonomous states on the basis of a federation. Such a Russian state would pose less of a threat to the future peace of all countries than a vast, centralized tsarist monarchy. And now it is just such a moment when, due to the critical situation in which all the parties existing in Russia and all its military forces are located, an opportunity is created, with the help of the wise application of the policy of the allies, to give events such a turn ... "

          You don't consider the organization of the overthrow of the tsar by the small British as a stab in the back?
          Subsequent events show that Kolchak's protection was not an accident. Independent researchers believe that by this time he had already been recruited by British intelligence.
          On October 20, 1916 (according to the new style), the battleship "Empress Maria" took off on the roadstead of the Sevastopol Bay. Upon learning of this explosion, Berlin and London rubbed their hands with equal joy.
          The first thing that the commission of inquiry faced was that Admiral Kolchak made such a mess on the flagship that you will not find in a gypsy camp. Violations of the Naval Regulations on the battleship were simply egregious. In any fleet of any country, they are hanged for this, even in peacetime. Regardless of the reason why the battleship exploded, the final conclusions of the commission were expected to be the saddest for Kolchak. And then lo and behold - the February Revolution! The joyful Kolchak personally informed the sailors about the course of revolutionary events in Petrograd, and on March 5 (February 20), 1917, he ordered a parade and a prayer service to be held on the occasion of the overthrow of the Autocracy. Naturally, after that, the investigation into the explosion of "Empress Maria" immediately died out - the Hero of the Revolution is not a tsarist satrap for you, he should be beyond suspicion. I have no doubt that after that you will start telling me tales about Kolchak's monarchism.
          By June 1917, Kolchak, suddenly remembering the Naval Regulations, brought the relations between sailors and naval officers to a boiling point and abandoned the Black Sea Fleet to its fate. The massacre of sailors on officers of the Black Sea Fleet in the summer of 1917 was largely his merit. It doesn't count as a backstab either.
          Having abandoned the fleet, Kolchak voluntarily left Russia and came to his patrons in England. Almost immediately, at the request of the American ambassador to England, the "promising" admiral for the "allies" was sent to the United States, where he was recruited by the diplomatic intelligence of the US State Department. The recruitment was carried out by former Secretary of State Eliahu Ruth. So Admiral Kolchak became a servant of two masters.
          On November 18, 1918, Kolchak (by this time he was a career officer in the British Army) overthrew the Provisional All-Russian Government (Ufa Directory). Soon after this, the deputy of the Constituent Assembly, Nil Fomin, and 9 prominent Socialist-Revolutionaries and Mensheviks - members of the Directory were chopped up with sabers and shot by Kolchak officers. This is not a snotty statement by the anarchist A. Zheleznyakov “the guard is tired” at the closing of the meeting of the Constituent Assembly, but a program of legitimizing the new government with delight accepted in the circles of modern Bulkokhrust fans.
          From the first to the last Kolchak, who appropriated the title of "Supreme Ruler", was a puppet in the hands of the "allies". Kolchak was not considered by them as the ruler of the state, and the White Guard movement as a whole was not perceived by the Entente as an application for the creation of a sovereign state. These were nothing more than native troops, blindly obeying the colonialists. In my opinion, the most shameful thing for the White Guard movement was that, unlike, for example, Poland and Czechoslovakia, it was not even invited as an observer to the negotiations between the winners and the defeated, which ended with the Versailles Treaty. Kolchak had no political independence at all. General Janin was the commander-in-chief of the allied forces in the East of Russia and in Western Siberia, and General Knox was the head of the rear and supplies of the Kolchak army.
          On January 22, 1919, US President W. Wilson, on behalf of the Entente, proposed to consolidate the independent status of the territories of the former Russian Empire occupied by numerous "governments".
          On May 26, 1919, the Entente Supreme Council, in accordance with the convention on the division of Russian territories adopted on November 13, 1918, ordered Kolchak to give up his claims to a single and indivisible Russia. He sent him a note (essentially an ultimatum), in which he demanded from the "Supreme Ruler" a written refusal to restore the previous regime. Those. The Entente was not satisfied with not only the tsarist regime, but even the Provisional or any other government, if only it was All-Russian. This was echoed by another clause of the note, which required not to hinder the free election of local self-government bodies. In conditions when the country was blazing fire of separatism of all stripes, this meant its end. On June 12, 1919, Kolchak responded to this ultimatum with his written consent to each of his points separately.
          By the spring of 1919, Kolchak had created an army of up to 400 thousand people (including about 30 thousand officers), having sent 130-140 thousand bayonets and sabers to the front. The rest took part in brutal punitive campaigns against the Russian population of Siberia - the classic occupation army. No wonder Hitler respected and appreciated the White Guards so much. Kolchakism was in no way a struggle against Bolshevism, it was a struggle for the complete destruction of the Russian statehood and the population of Russia to please the invaders.
          In 1999, the military court of the Trans-Baikal Military District (now the East Siberian Military District Court), in accordance with the law “On the rehabilitation of victims of political repression”, issued a ruling according to which the former “supreme ruler” was not subject to rehabilitation.
          At present, in the city of Irkutsk, a monument has been erected to a war criminal and an accomplice of the interventionists, a career officer of the British army Kolchak, installed with the bloody money of the Andreevskaya organized criminal group. The volume of the criminal case against the Andreev-Novoseltsev gang is 275 volumes. 87 episodes of criminal activity have been proven, including more than 10 murders and about 50 robberies. Andreev is still on the international wanted list. A clear continuity of generations: a monument to the best people of Russia that we have lost, erected by the best people of our time.
          1. Vladimir1155
            Vladimir1155 19 January 2021 17: 50
            -3
            Quote: Old electrician
            In 1999, the military court of the Trans-Baikal Military District (now the East Siberian Military District Court), in accordance with the law “On the rehabilitation of victims of political repression”, issued a ruling according to which the former “supreme ruler” was not subject to rehabilitation.

            in general, you need to understand that the white army was not tsarist; it was led by those who sold and betrayed the sovereign and Russia, at the behest of the senior Masons .... when did these "hungry crowd standing at the throne, freedom of genius and glory of the executioners", and even traitors to the tsar The traitors to the Motherland realized that they were deceived by the lovely French and English Masons, then they gathered part of the nobility under their banners without repenting of their deeds, and seeking not autocracy, but some kind of mythical democracy and liberalism on the model of Yakovlev Gorbachev and Yeltsin ... of two evils, the people chose the lesser. Only a few generals were faithful to the oath ... unfortunately, mostly foreigners, that is, the Russians turned out to be traitors, but it would seem that strangers turned out to be faithful to the oath to the Tsar of Russia and the Russian people ..... well, isn't it a shame for us Russians? https://topwar.ru/152573-generaly-kotorye-ne-predali-nikolaja-ii.html
          2. aleksejkabanets
            aleksejkabanets 19 January 2021 20: 53
            +1
            Quote: Old electrician
            I will tell you about one such monument ...

            Thanks for the great comment. good
          3. Olgovich
            Olgovich 19 January 2021 22: 45
            -3
            Quote: Old electrician
            In 1999, the military court of the Trans-Baikal Military District (now the East Siberian Military District Court), in accordance with the law "On the rehabilitation of victims of political repression", issued a ruling according to which the former "supreme ruler" is not subject to rehabilitation

            Not subject, of course, because he was not CONDEMNED BY ANYONE: he was killed by ordinary bandits. Therefore, he does not need her.
            Quote: Old electrician
            Currently, a monument to a war criminal and an accomplice of the interventionists, a career officer of the British army Kolchak, is erected in Irkutsk.

            Monument to the veteran front-line soldier and hero of the RYAV and WWI, order bearer, Russian scientist, Russian patriot, ruler of Russia and its hero, who did everything to return freedom and will to the captured people and country, to prevent it from being torn apart into 15 "republics" and the extinction of the people, which happened by 1991
  • Alexey RA
    Alexey RA 18 January 2021 13: 51
    +4
    He ascended thanks to Russian patrons and donors, who did not skimp on their modest, and sometimes not at all modest donations for the sake of the embodiment of the feats of the defenders of the Fatherland in the complex of temple structures.

    And the budget of Moscow (2 billion to the "Resurrection" fund) and the Moscow region (950 million there) are patrons or donors? wink
    1. Rose capone
      Rose capone 18 January 2021 14: 01
      +7
      The flourishing of religion in any country means only one thing: the people have much more chances to be heard by God than by the PRESIDENT, the Government by the senators and deputies.
      1. Vladimir1155
        Vladimir1155 19 January 2021 11: 17
        -8
        the flourishing of religion is the reason for the improvement of life in the country, and the fall of faith is the reason for the destruction of the country of impoverishment, the vile authorities of thieves in power ..... why? why do we live like this? Yes, read the comments, even here, even on the fence of the church under construction, how much anger, abomination in the soul of these "people" are willing to voluntarily crucify Christ tomorrow! This is why God does not bless us with a good life. The Bible teaches that if you act according to the commandments, love God and your neighbor, you will prosper, and if you stop loving God and your neighbor, you will perish in your malice ... (Deuteronomy Chapter 28), and this works and the whole story is a confirmation of this, when in a drunken stupor, they killed Andrei Bogolyubsky, then taught the Mongol Yoke. and when they stood up for the pious Basil the Dark, the yoke fell. When they abandoned God at the end of the 19th century, became carried away by spiritualism, fell into fornication and sin, they got the shame of Tsushima, 1917 civil and great Patriotic 19 + 20 million people died, and also the Spanish woman who struck almost all of Europe and destroyed the entire generation of apostates. When, in spite of Trotskyist persecutions, they did not renounce the faith, God gave a just and strong leader Stalin. When in 1972 they began to renounce their faith without being forced, a drought came and the collapse of the USSR began based on the love of silver and the petty meanness of the people, and after a generation the USSR fell, fell not by the hands of the traitors of Yakovlev Gorbachev, but by the hands of the stupid and meaningless crowd that shouted we do not need a great story and give on lace panties as in Europe "(and it was not on the Maidan, but in Moscow) ......
        1. Vladimir1155
          Vladimir1155 19 January 2021 11: 38
          -6
          they write you don't need the churches ... but why are you so worried? the church is separated from the state, lives on private donations, there is no article in the state budget on the financing of the Russian Orthodox Church or another church, and the budget is the law. Unfortunately, the church is also separated from the school, so the school that you called to build here is a dummy, it does not teach, but cripples the soul. Faith in GOD collects and stabilizes a person's consciousness, makes him sane, for a person receives the concept of the unity of the world and the objectivity of reality, of his place in the world of God, the concept of the goals and objectives of his life, the concept of the commandments and norms of life, therefore such a person is persistent and can think logically "Blessed is he who believes warmly in him in the world." And vice versa, whoever renounced the One God, then destroyed his consciousness, it disintegrated into pagan pieces, approached the schizophrenic. he is not able to use even his knowledge, he knows that drinking is bad, that in the morning he will have a headache, that he was lying in a ditch and almost froze ... but he drinks again and again, because his consciousness is not connected and cannot be torn apart from one thing to another .... and drinks from grief, how can you live on earth knowing that you will become food for worms? what for? so the pagans perish from their own stupidity, so they groan and hate God, and pour out their poison in the words of blasphemy against God, for the poison in their souls is already over the edge, how deep is the darkness that even overflows? for the life of pagans is dark (for there are no atheists who have a number of beliefs in different things (belief in himself supposedly omnipotent, belief in pleasure, belief in money, maybe belief in communism can still be in his family ... and so on ... .. and real atheists, that is, they do not believe in anything at all, they are just schizophrenics and live in a psychiatric hospital.) All their idols are weak and constantly fluctuate and fall, you are not omnipotent, and pleasure is only for a while, etc. and stress For the revival of Russia, the people need to see the light, otherwise how will they live? this is not life ..... https://allbible.info/bible/sinodal/de/28/
          1. faiver
            faiver 20 January 2021 12: 19
            -1
            why are you so worried? the church is separated from the state, lives on private donations, there is no article on the financing of the Russian Orthodox Church in the state budget
            - there is no article, but there are expenses ... hi
    2. faiver
      faiver 18 January 2021 15: 35
      +4
      do not forget about the voluntary-compulsory "donations" of military personnel and civilian workers of the Ministry of Defense throughout the country ....
  • nikvic46
    nikvic46 18 January 2021 14: 41
    +2
    I am pleased to see these beautiful temples. I am pleased to see the parishioners going to these temples. We must not allow one kind of religion to rise above another. There is nationalism in speech on the net. I am afraid that all this can slip into religions. I am also against militant atheism and vice versa. Nothing should be imposed by force. Everyone has the right to come either to faith or to atheism.
    1. Aleksandr1971
      Aleksandr1971 19 January 2021 20: 31
      0
      Although I am a staunch atheist, I also enjoy looking at Christian and non-Christian churches that were built before 1917.

      I believe that the feelings of believers, as well as the feelings of atheists, cannot be mocked or mocked. And the guilty must be punished.

      The communist ideology is essentially also a religion. Who would deny that communism on Earth is not a fairy tale for the naive lower classes of society?

      And the temples, built in the corresponding historical period, in no case should be destroyed. Therefore, I believe that Christians who destroyed ancient temples and temples of ancient Aryan deities, thereby committed acts of vandalism. As well as the vandals and communists who destroyed Christian churches.

      Communist churches, including Lenin's Mausoleum, cannot be destroyed either (although I think Lenin would have been better off not being born or dying in childhood). The same goes for mosques and other cargo cults.

      But religious beliefs should be fought, because they really dull the people - well, what a normal person would really believe that a certain God created the world in 6 days about 7 thousand years ago. But this is what Christians, Jews and Muslims think.

      In other religions, questions of the creation of the world and chronology are indicated less categorically, but sometimes no less fantastic. For example, in medieval Korea, people thought that a man was made of a bear. But there are hundreds, if not thousands, of religions. Nowadays religious people are cretins, either deceived or pretending to be crooks.

      The second category of people can be corrected and directed towards creative development that will powerfully strengthen our country. Therefore, it is necessary to deal with the religious offices fooling the people. Only the current anti-people regime will not do it.

      If the people of Russia do not change their current political elite, then Russia has a path to extinction, like the ancient civilizations of the Middle East, which were once advanced, but now sit in the bottom of the world.
  • faiver
    faiver 18 January 2021 15: 40
    +4
    Apparently, for many years obscurantists have not visited this temple - atheists from the distant years of the last century
    - Well, yes, you don't need a lot of courage to spit at a dead lion, are you ashamed of the reserve colonel?
    1. Odysseus
      Odysseus 18 January 2021 17: 15
      +5
      Quote: faiver
      - Well, yes, you don't need a lot of courage to spit at a dead lion, are you ashamed of the reserve colonel?

      At the same time, how "obscurantists have not visited this temple for many years" remains a mystery. Apparently the temple teleported from the territory of the USSR smile
      And a little further down the text, after the maxims about "dark people", the author suddenly switches to "the fascist enemy" and "admirals of the USSR".
      So the trouble here is not so much in conscience as in pluralism in one head ...
  • Andrey Pozdnyakov
    Andrey Pozdnyakov 18 January 2021 16: 08
    +4
    And also a stunningly beautiful temple - the Naval Cathedral in Kronstadt!
  • tacet
    tacet 18 January 2021 16: 25
    +6
    The Russian Orthodox Church is the richest commercial structure in Russia (it will be richer than Gazprom). Looking the truth in the eye, it is restoring those temples that will be profitable. Why does she need this church in a village with a population of less than 2000 people ?!
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 18 January 2021 18: 34
      -7
      "The Russian Orthodox Church is the richest commercial structure in Russia" Why does it not produce anything - they have directions of agricultural tourism and so on little things, but there is no serious business.
      1. tacet
        tacet 18 January 2021 19: 55
        +3
        Any ceremony is not worth bad money, even a funeral service, even a wedding, even a christening. Taxes are not paid. What is the cost-effective? I think retailers with their 500-600% are sheer shy ones.
        1. Artyom Karagodin
          Artyom Karagodin 18 January 2021 20: 41
          -1
          Quote: tacet
          What is the cost-effective?

          Exactly what is it? Let's in fact, and not from the wind of your head.
          1. Aleksandr1971
            Aleksandr1971 19 January 2021 21: 03
            +1
            In fact, the question of the profitability of the Orthodox Church in Russia is a secret that not every high hierarch of the Russian Orthodox Church knows. Somehow I had the opportunity to talk closely and frankly on the financial topics of the ROC with the rector of a large collection of the ROC.

            When asked how the income of his temple is recorded, he replied that all cash flows are carried out only in cash. And how much his church earns, only the abbot knows (for some questions of theft of church attendants). But the higher church authorities not only do not know the real income of this council, but also do not demand reports.
            The higher church authorities only demand from my acquaintance only a certain standard of deductions to the top, as well as + money for some extraordinary expenses of the ROC (which may actually be invented). At the same time, it is almost impossible to dismiss the rector of the church according to the internal church documents. And becoming the rector of a profitable church is a more difficult task than becoming a notary. Hundreds of thousands of greens are dumped for a lucrative position in the Russian Orthodox Church, and in Moscow and millions.

            This means that a particular parish of the Russian Orthodox Church is almost the private property of a particular rector. He forms the budget of the temple, hires ministers, choir, etc., and assigns his own salary. The income of each temple of the Russian Orthodox Church strongly depends on where the temple is located.
            A friend of mine has a church in a passageway on the territory of a very large market in a big city with a million population. Therefore, my acquaintance, the abbot, has a very decent income, on which he travels abroad several times a year (I met him during my travels). He studied at the theological seminary personally with Kiryukha, when he was a teacher. He talked a lot about Kiryukha.

            Income and property of churches and employees of the ROC and other religions in the Russian Federation are not taxed.

            But there are temples in poor villages. The abbots of such churches earn very little, and sometimes they are really poor. And there are churches in which the abbots are only part-time, and at the same time earn on something else.

            For me personally, as an entrepreneur, such an organization of finances in the Russian Orthodox Church seemed more than strange. In my organization, I demanded a uniform approach and transparency in all monetary transactions. But such an organization of finance is probably preferable for the ROC. I draw an analogy with the feudal relations in which the ROC was formed.

            Does my acquaintance priest-rector of the cathedral believe in God? He did not answer this question of mine. But he said that church service is work. For his almost honest answer, I respect him.
            1. Artyom Karagodin
              Artyom Karagodin 20 January 2021 13: 45
              -3
              Unfortunately, most of what you said is true. But not all. For example, regarding the alleged impossibility of removing the abbot. This is just very easy to do, if you wish.

              And the roots of the above-described situation with financial flows must still be sought not in the era of feudalism. This is rather a consequence of the 90s, when after the harsh press from the Soviet authorities complete religious and economic freedom came. No one, excuse the tovtology, cared about the affairs of religious organizations, including financial ones, thanks to which we have not only the order of things in the Russian Orthodox Church described by you, but also sects that multiplied exponentially. There, with funding, as a rule, it is much darker.

              But you need to understand that the Orthodox Church is called Holy, not because there are holy people. In this regard, the Church is a cut of society, and there are all kinds of people here. Anyone who has read the Bible will pay attention to the fact that there were enough crooks in this environment at all times, without exception (as elsewhere). The clearest example is Judas, who, by the way, did not immediately become such.

              Believers call the Church Holy, because Holy is God and holy are the Truths which He brought into the world and which the Church preserves. Holy people are just those who have become an example of the embodiment of these truths in their lives. But not all church people strive to live this way. Here a feat is needed.

              To this it is necessary to add the fact that in the late 80s and early 90s there were no more priests just catastrophically, and in order to solve this problem, they began to "take" everyone. As a result, many people have become priests, sometimes they have just crossed the threshold of the church and have not yet really understood anything in Orthodoxy, or even unbelievers, as the abbot you named, most likely. What is the point of being silent in response to a question about faith in God, if such a faith takes place?

              Now the situation with the "recruitment" of frames is still much better, although the problem has not been completely solved and, alas, it is not the only one.

              As for the "profitability" in general, only large monasteries and large city parishes bring "profit", and the scale of these profits, in the minds of people far from the topic, is exaggerated at times, no matter who says anything. The "rich" dioceses and parishes are located in rich cities and regions. There are not many of them in our country.
    2. BAI
      BAI 18 January 2021 19: 14
      +4
      she rebuilds those temples that will be profitable.

      Doesn't restore. Waiting for the state to restore. Sergiev Posad is full of real estate (churches, monasteries, houses) that belong to the Russian Orthodox Church, but it does not restore them. All these buildings are architectural monuments and sooner or later the state will restore church property at the state expense. When these objects belonged to the state, they were in a more or less good condition and functioned as hospitals, residential, industrial buildings, etc. Now - ruins, rotting walls without roofs. For that - in the Russian Orthodox Church.
      The building that belonged to the Russian Orthodox Church and was rented out (money must be earned) burned down in 2015. Until now, no restoration work has been carried out. This is the center of Sergiev Posad. The main street. Opposite the Lavra.

    3. Artyom Karagodin
      Artyom Karagodin 18 January 2021 20: 39
      -4
      Nonsense, not a comment, sorry. Where do you get such data, about "richer Gazprom"? Can you confirm with specifics?
      1. Flooding
        Flooding 19 January 2021 10: 17
        -1
        Quote: Artyom Karagodin
        Nonsense, not a comment, sorry. Where do you get such data, about "richer Gazprom"? Can you confirm with specifics?

        You, with your fair remarks, to put it mildly, will not gain popularity here.
        Here they love in a simple way, without going into details:
        Priests are scoundrels and scoundrels
        God is not in the temple, but in the soul
        Christian faith is not native to us
        And in general there is no God
        1. Artyom Karagodin
          Artyom Karagodin 19 January 2021 18: 18
          -3
          And what does popularity have to do with it? I say what I think, like everyone else here. Well, if not all, then most.
          1. Flooding
            Flooding 20 January 2021 07: 26
            0
            If the word popularity jars the ear, call it support.
            1. Artyom Karagodin
              Artyom Karagodin 20 January 2021 12: 59
              -2
              It does not change anything.
              1. Flooding
                Flooding 20 January 2021 14: 21
                0
                Wrong.
                Support is always important and needed.
                For example, I am always glad to see a loyal attitude towards believers on the forum.
                1. Artyom Karagodin
                  Artyom Karagodin 20 January 2021 16: 40
                  -1
                  I just know that there will be those who will agree, by the way, and from non-believers too. There will be skeptics, and there will be those who will splash saliva. This happens everywhere. Why should "VO" be an exception?
    4. Vladimir1155
      Vladimir1155 19 January 2021 14: 02
      -1
      Are you a treasurer and you know everything? and you know the Gazprom budget ... the numbers in the studio so as not to be branded as a balabol and a slanderer!
  • Fedorovich
    Fedorovich 18 January 2021 17: 46
    +1
    Carrion.
  • Ryaruav
    Ryaruav 18 January 2021 19: 07
    +4
    I got the impression (judging by the comments) that Penza is a sister city to Chisinau, as olgovich (monarchist) and caliber (toli anarchist toli anarchosyndicalist) sang to find fault with the USSR
    1. albert
      albert 18 January 2021 20: 16
      +1
      A fisherman, as they say, sees from afar, as do anti-Soviet Russophobes each other.
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 18 January 2021 22: 03
        -7
        Quote: albert
        anti-Soviet Russophobes

        Under whom did the Russian people suffer the most terrible losses in their thousand-year history and begin to die out? With the "Russophiles," yes ...

        Under whom was Russia cut off by 5 million km2 and found itself within the borders of the 17th century, and three centuries of its labors went to dust? Also with them ...
        1. Elturisto
          Elturisto 20 January 2021 09: 36
          -1
          O mourning for the Russian people drew:) Under capitalism, the Russian people began to die out. And the Russian peoples are different with you ...
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 20 January 2021 09: 44
            -3
            Quote: ElTuristo
            O mourning for the Russian people drew:) Under capitalism, the Russian people began to die out. And the Russian peoples are different with you ...

            You go to school first, learn to read, understand, then pull yourself up.
            Demographic disaster since the 1930s.
            Depopulation (extinction) since 1964
            Russian Cross by 1992 as a result of the above.
            Quote: ElTuristo
            us with you different.

            You will poke your own lol wife lol
            Quote: ElTuristo
            Yes, and the Russian peoples are different with you ...

            belay fool lol
  • HaByxoDaBHocep
    HaByxoDaBHocep 19 January 2021 06: 58
    +3
    Hmm, insanity is growing stronger, obscurantists are not just atheists, as the author says, but churchmen who instill in people medieval ideas: all power is from God, repent, endure, it will be rewarded in the next world, and who the hell was in the next world? Priests blessed ballistic missiles , a weapon designed to kill millions, is it a godly deed? Religion is the opium for the people and a tool of the ruling class for fooling people, it is always easier for submissive God-fearing cattle to manage
    1. Vladimir1155
      Vladimir1155 19 January 2021 14: 07
      -2
      Quote: HaByxoDaBHocep
      cattle are always easier to manage

      your untruth Walter Lipman proved and realized that it is easier to manage an unprincipled stupid ungodly people, to rob, take his family away from him, give him an iPhone on loans and let the Kiripichiks lay there ... but as they grow up, they will die before retirement ... dogs and everyone will run slave chips to implant voluntarily
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  • HaByxoDaBHocep