Military Review

50-round pistol that leaves no chance for body armor

101

Kel-Tec P50 pistol


The American company Kel-Tec is famous for its unusual developments in the field of small arms weapons... One of the latest developments of the company is the Kel-Tec P50 pistol for the magazine from the FN P90 submachine gun, designed for 50 rounds.

A special feature of the new weapon chambered for 5,7 × 28 mm SS190 is its high penetration and compactness. In fact, we have before us PDW - a personal self-defense weapon in the western classification, but in the form factor of a pistol and with very small dimensions.

The P50 trademark was registered by the company in February 2020, and the first images in the press appeared in December last year. The manufacturer himself calls the new model

"The most unique piece in the entire Kel-Tec range."

Kel-Tec expects to begin deliveries of the new model of small arms in the first quarter of 2021. The MSRP for the P50 starts at $ 995 for the American market. In addition to the pistol, the delivery set will include two magazines for 50 rounds.

5,7 × 28 mm cartridge and magazine from FN P90


A special feature of the new pistol is the selected cartridge and magazine for it.

In fact, we have before us a reduced sample of rifle caliber cartridges, and not a classic pistol cartridge. The 5,7 mm ammunition was developed in the early 2000s. In 2002 and 2003, experts from a number of NATO countries conducted a series of tests in order to find a new cartridge for personal self-defense weapons and its further standardization. The new cartridge was supposed to replace the 9mm Parabellum cartridge (9x19 mm), which is widespread throughout the world.

Two main ammunition participated in the tests: 5,7x28 mm from Fabrique Nationale and 4,6x30 mm from Heckler & Koch. The first is used in the FN P90 submachine gun, the second in the HK MP7 submachine gun. Both models are currently mass-produced small arms.

50-round pistol that leaves no chance for body armor
Left to right cartridges 4,6 x 30 mm, 5,7 x 28 mm, .30 Carbine

According to the results of tests carried out in the early 2000s, experts opted for the 5,7 × 28 mm cartridge, which they considered more effective.

A group of experts from the USA, Canada, Great Britain and France came to the conclusion that the effectiveness of the 5,7x28 mm cartridge at unprotected targets is 28 percent higher than when using the 4,6x30 mm cartridge. In this case, the action of cartridges against protected targets turned out to be equivalent.

To roughly imagine the level of effectiveness of the new cartridges, it can be noted that the 4,6x30 mm cartridge turned out to be 2,5 times more effective when firing at targets in body armor than the 9x19 mm MP5K cartridge with half the recoil.

It is reported that at a distance of 150 meters, a bullet of a 4,6x30 mm cartridge is guaranteed to penetrate a 1,6 mm thick titanium armor plate, as well as a standard body armor set by NATO CRISAT requirements.

The requirements of this standard take into account that the bullet does not just pierce the body armor, but it is also guaranteed to disable manpower. The standard sets an infantry target in body armor. The protective elements of such a body armor are represented by titanium plates with a thickness of 1,6 mm, on the back side of which there are 20 layers of aramid Kevlar fabric.

When developing the standard, NATO focused on body armor of the former Warsaw Pact states and the Russian Federation, including GRAU 6B2 and 6B5-1. The SS190 cartridge 5,7x28 mm with an initial flight speed of 715 m / s at a distance of 200 meters pierces 48 layers of Kevlar, as well as steel and Kevlar helmets.


50-charge magazine

Germany insisted on adopting its own ammunition, so there was no general standardization in NATO.

Different countries of the alliance, depending on personal preferences, use today both cartridges and samples of weapons for them. Both ammunition is highly effective against shielded targets.

In this regard, the Kel-Tec P50 pistol took over all the positive aspects of the new cartridge. At the same time, the weapon retains almost all the ballistic characteristics of the FN P90 submachine gun, since the barrel length of the model is only 12,5 mm less.

A characteristic feature of the Kel-Tec P50 pistol is the magazine, which the weapon inherited from the Belgian FN P90. A special store was specially designed for this submachine gun and on March 6, 1990, a special store was patented in the USA. On a submachine gun, it was installed directly on top of the receiver, while its capacity was 50 rounds.

A distinctive and unique feature in addition to the capacity is that the cartridges in the magazine are located horizontally, perpendicular to the barrel of the weapon. Before being fed into the chamber, a special mechanism turns them 90 degrees. Another specific feature is that the magazine is made of transparent impact-resistant plastic, so that the shooter can always see how many cartridges he has in stock.

Features and capabilities of the Kel-Tec P50 pistol


Currently, specialists from the American company Kel-Tec have already revealed a number of tactical and technical characteristics of the new pistol.

It is known that the model uses 5,7x28 mm cartridges, the magazine capacity is 50 rounds. The weapon is made in the form factor and design of pistols, albeit a fantastic appearance, but a little heavy for standard samples of short-barreled weapons.

The new item weighs 3,2 pounds (1,43 kg) unloaded. The full length of the weapon is 15 inches (380 mm), the barrel length is 9,6 inches (244 mm), the height is 6,7 inches (170 mm), and the width is 2 inches (50 mm). Trigger pull 5 lbs (2,26 kg).


Kel-Tec P50 pistol. Left view

In terms of its size, the weapon turned out to be not so compact, although it certainly surpasses all PDW models in weight and dimensions. There is even the option of using a belt with a pistol.

In addition, the weapon received a fairly long barrel, which is only 12,5 mm inferior to the barrel of the FN P90 submachine gun. For pistols, this is a very high figure, the Fabrique Nationale company produces the FN Five-sevenN pistol chambered for 5,7x28 mm, but its barrel is exactly two times shorter (122 mm versus 244 mm for the P50).

The Kel-Tec P50 pistol is equipped with an automatic blowback mechanism. The barrel and bolt of the pistol are in a separate receiver made of high-strength aluminum alloy. The shutter is mostly located above the barrel of the weapon inside the receiver, the designers placed two return springs under the barrel. The receiver of the P50 pistol in the front is pivotally connected to a plastic frame on which the classic pistol grip and trigger guard are located.


Kel-Tec P50 pistol. Right view

In the rear, the receiver and the frame are rigidly connected to each other by a latch, the lever of which was placed by the designers above the rear of the pistol grip.

By pressing the latch with the thumb of the holding hand, the shooter with the other hand can easily lift the rear of the receiver up and forward. So he will open for himself access to a long window for placing a 50-round magazine with a transverse arrangement of cartridges relative to the weapon barrel and a built-in swivel ammunition ramp.

The magazine of the pistol is located in the window so that the rotary ramp is at the back, and the feed window for cartridges is at the top. The receiver is lowered and snapped on top of the magazine, so that the 50-round magazine is under the barrel of the weapon. When firing, the casings are thrown to the right and up through the window located at the rear of the receiver.

The model is equipped with a single action trigger with a hidden trigger. On both sides of the frame above the fire control handle are manual safety levers. A standard Picatinny rail is integrated into the top of the receiver, which makes it possible to use low-magnification collimator or optical sights with weapons. The bar also integrates classic open-type sights.

Prospects for a new model


American journalists are ambivalent about the prospects for the new Kel-Tec pistol in the civilian market.

Of course, the P50 pistol can be used for personal self-defense, home protection, recreational and sports shooting, or even for hunting small game. However, in all the above niches, there will definitely be more convenient and, what is especially important, much cheaper competitors for him.

It is unlikely that you will need a pistol for 50 rounds, capable of hitting targets in body armor. Although they have become more and more common in recent years, including outside the army and special services.


Kel-Tec P50 pistol

American journalists writing about weapons believe that the novelty will flirt with a civilian audience with its unusual appearance, taking not so much functionality, which for many is simply redundant, but the so-called

"Wow effect".

Indeed, the Kel-Tec P50 can impress a person.

This is not the boring and familiar Glock or Colt. Outwardly, a 50-round pistol looks more like a weapon from Hollywood films about the future. However, it is too early to judge the prospects of the model in the civilian market, since sales of the new item have not even begun yet.

For the civilian market, the model certainly looks niche. Since few people are vitally interested in breaking through modern body armor and in hitting protected targets.

But the P50 pistol may interest law enforcement agencies and the military even in this form.

There is definitely a use for a pistol. Considering the better compactness and weight compared to traditional submachine guns (PDW). At the same time, if necessary, Kel-Tec specialists will be able to provide a body kit for the pistol. Including a stock that can adapt it into the most compact self-defense weapon that can be used to arm pilots or tankers.

At the same time, there is no need to sacrifice either ammunition or ballistics. You don't even have to add the ability to automatically fire or fire with a cutoff of several rounds.

Although in the future, the company will most likely be able to implement this function as well.
Author:
Photos used:
https://www.keltecweapons.com/
101 comment
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. Lech from Android.
    Lech from Android. 15 January 2021 04: 52
    +15
    In close combat, such a pistol can crush the enemy with uninterrupted fire, if only the barrel withstands. I would not refuse it ... A stock of a dozen magazines of 500 rounds ... Decent.
    1. Simargl
      Simargl 15 January 2021 06: 48
      +23
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      In close combat, such a pistol can crush the enemy with uninterrupted fire, if only the barrel withstands.
      The next stage is a belt-fed pistol: a pistol with a baggy reload, like the belt-fed one already.
      1. Sergey_G_M
        Sergey_G_M 15 January 2021 08: 29
        +19
        Come on, the gun is fine, the knife bayonet is really not enough, for this pistol it would be just right!
        1. Alex777
          Alex777 15 January 2021 17: 14
          +10
          Self-defense for the farmer is quite.
          I would not mind, I would have bought it myself. bully
          1. Starover_Z
            Starover_Z 15 January 2021 17: 37
            +7
            Quote: Alex777
            Self-defense for the farmer is quite.
            I would not mind, I would have bought it myself. bully

            A pistol that easily breaks through armor ...
            Just in the civil sector, to fight off the bailiffs.
            1. Alex777
              Alex777 15 January 2021 17: 41
              +5
              Advertising cartridge 5,7x30 is in the States as comfortable for shooting due to low recoil.
              Armor-piercing is determined primarily by the bullet.
              There are quite ordinary ones for civilians. hi
              And armor-piercing cartridges are generally prohibited in the states.
              Only for storage at once they give 5 years.
              Not to mention the use against the police.
              1. Bad_gr
                Bad_gr 16 January 2021 12: 36
                0
                Quote: Alex777
                Advertising cartridge 5,7x30 is in the States as comfortable for shooting due to low recoil.

                Small recoil, with not a small (for a pistol) cartridge, somehow I can’t believe it. Unless if they shoot with a rifle.
                And
                The Kel-Tec P50 pistol features a self-closing automatic action.
                too, surprising. With a 9x18 cartridge, a free breechblock on a pistol is a completely normal solution, with a 9x19 cartridge, you already have to be wise, a short barrel stroke, etc. And here it is 5,7x30. With such a length of the case, the powder in it, and, accordingly, the energy that it gives to the bullet is decent - and the free shutter. Unclear.
                1. psiho117
                  psiho117 16 January 2021 18: 44
                  +3
                  Quote: Bad_gr
                  Small recoil ... somehow I can't believe

                  In vain. The law of conservation of momentum suggests: the momentum of the recoil force is equal to the momentum of the weapon; the impulse of the weapon consists of Vbullets + Mbullets multiplied by Vpowder gases + Mpowder gases.
                  The bullet is very light. The amount of powder is small - and voila, we get a weapon with low recoil. Plus, the free shutter "stretches" this impulse a little more.
                  And the longer the barrel is, the lower the velocity of the gases emanating from the barrel, and the even more extended in time impulse.
                  free shutter. Unclear.
                  as already written above - thanks to the small impulse, the free shutter does quite well.
                  1. Bad_gr
                    Bad_gr 16 January 2021 19: 05
                    -1
                    Quote: psiho117
                    The bullet is very light. Small amount of powder

                    Quote: psiho117
                    thanks to the small impulse,

                    For a small amount of gunpowder, what's the point of making a case of this size (one and a half times longer than 9x19)?
                    Usually gunpowder takes up all the space from the bullet to the bottom. And if with such a caliber the bullet is light, then it is short and takes up little space in the case, and there should not be free space in the case - it is fraught with detonation.
                    1. psiho117
                      psiho117 16 January 2021 20: 56
                      +2
                      Quote: Bad_gr
                      Usually gunpowder takes up all the space from the bullet to the bottom.
                      Usually, but not always. Old cartridges were often 2/3 full.
                      And yet, yes - the cartridge case of the 5,7x28mm cartridge is half empty.

                      there should be no free space in the sleeve - fraught with detonation

                      Why did it happen? The first time I've heard.
                      On the contrary, the presence of some free space in the liner allows you to avoid a sudden increase in pressure, and reduce the risk of the liner swelling.
                      Of course, theoretically, a situation may arise when, when firing vertically downwards, the primer will not be able to ignite the powder, but this is possible only on long rifle cartridges, with old primers.
                      1. Bad_gr
                        Bad_gr 16 January 2021 21: 19
                        +2
                        Quote: Bad_gr
                        and there should be no free space in the sleeve - it is fraught with detonation.
                        Quote: psiho117
                        Why did it happen? The first time I've heard.

                      2. Bad_gr
                        Bad_gr 16 January 2021 21: 49
                        0
                        I gave a link to the video "Why the Glock exploded" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XMDmdxk1W4). Why it was replaced by the "Sixth Element" I don't know
                      3. psiho117
                        psiho117 17 January 2021 02: 39
                        +1
                        Thank you.
                        I have never seen a similar reason for a cartridge explosion. Apparently a really rare case.
                        And the hero of the video, most likely, got cartridges either with a factory defect, or with the wrong markings - there are special cartridges for pressure tests, they differ in much higher energy.
                        Perhaps, in our investigation, the lots of cartridges were confused.
                      4. Sanichsan
                        Sanichsan 18 January 2021 01: 03
                        +2
                        Quote: psiho117
                        Perhaps, in our investigation, the lots of cartridges were confused.

                        in our? are you interested in small arms? you probably should be familiar with the story of the M-16, which was shot with one gunpowder during trials and tests, and cartridges went to the troops with another, and how it ended wink
                      5. 4thParasinok
                        4thParasinok 16 March 2021 18: 24
                        0
                        Quote: psiho117
                        I have never seen a similar reason for a cartridge explosion. Apparently a really rare case.

                        I don't know about the rarity, but the states sell special inserts for reloading, made of a material similar to a synthetic winterizer, so that when the cartridge is tilted, the case does not fill up unevenly with gunpowder. And some company (I don't remember the name) has been doing it right at the plant for more than 10 years. Explained by maintaining the characteristics of the cartridge and preventing detonation.
            2. shinobi
              shinobi 17 January 2021 07: 39
              0
              And what is incomprehensible? You are not surprised by the possibilities of the cartridge for the Mauser or TT? In general, the Belgians did not hide that the 5,7x28 (as well as 30) copy-paste of the Mauser idea.
              1. 4thParasinok
                4thParasinok 16 March 2021 18: 25
                0
                Quote: shinobi
                In general, the Belgians did not hide that the 5,7x28 (as well as 30) copy-paste of the Mauser idea.

                ek Mauser, and 5,45x18.
          2. syndicalist
            syndicalist 17 January 2021 10: 11
            0
            Quote: Alex777
            And armor-piercing cartridges are generally prohibited in the states.
            Only for storage at once they give 5 years.
            Not to mention the use against the police.

            Fuck you understand these Americans. The second amendment was accepted as a guarantee of the right to revolt from the declaration of independence. That is, to counteract the police, as a defender of power.
        2. your1970
          your1970 18 January 2021 11: 41
          +1
          Quote: Starover_Z
          Quote: Alex777
          Self-defense for the farmer is quite.
          I would not mind, I would have bought it myself. bully

          A pistol that easily breaks through armor ...
          Just in the civil sector, to fight off the bailiffs.
          - then the bailiffs will simply arrive in a tank ... lol lol lol
    2. halpat
      halpat 15 January 2021 17: 35
      +2
      Quote: Sergey_G_M
      Come on, the gun is fine, the knife bayonet is really not enough, for this pistol it would be just right!

      And the butt would still smile and a bipod, just in case.
  2. bad
    bad 15 January 2021 08: 45
    +15
    Quote: Simargl
    The next stage is a belt-fed pistol: a pistol with a baggy reload, like the belt feed already has

    I agree that we went too far with the store. Could be really lightweight and compact to create. But for some reason they relied on futurism.
    1. psiho117
      psiho117 15 January 2021 11: 02
      +11
      Quote: malo
      Could be really lightweight and compact to create.

      Lightweight and compact is already there - this is Five Seven.
      They created exactly what they wanted - a pistol for a 50-round magazine from the P-90.
      The weapon will definitely have a niche - if ordinary Glocks around the world are massively used in carbine whales, then this pistol - God himself commanded hi
    2. paul3390
      paul3390 15 January 2021 12: 30
      +5
      IMHO - it will be like we have with Stechkin .. It seems that the barrel is normal, and there is a hell of a lot, and there are a lot of cartridges - and there are not enough fans to carry such a fool on a belt. Perhaps in the Caucasus .. laughing
      And getting out of armored vehicles with such a device is not very cumbersome .. So it will happen as with ours, a cult thing, but little used .. bully
    3. Alex777
      Alex777 15 January 2021 17: 21
      +2
      Lightweight and compact in the States has already been released - Ruger-57.
      And this one is for solving all issues without recharging.
      Reloading is neither easy nor fast with the Kel-Tec P50.
      The store was successfully taken ready-made and, most importantly, reliable.
      Add to him shooting with a cut-off of 2-3 shots. hi
  3. Alexey RA
    Alexey RA 15 January 2021 10: 41
    +12
    Quote: Simargl
    The next step is the belt feed pistol

    And it was already ... smile
  • Viktor Sergeev
    Viktor Sergeev 15 January 2021 08: 34
    +9
    I'd rather have a normal submachine gun. You've probably seen enough of militants, how a person bursts into a room and pours it from an Uzi or a similar machine, and the bullets are placed in an even thread. If you want to water continuously, choose PPSh, this is an avalanche of fire, and the weight allows you to conduct super heap shooting.
  • Runway
    Runway 15 January 2021 11: 36
    0
    "Davilshchikov" and "sprinklers" from the grenade launcher are "shod" (duet, trio, quartet - for reliability).
  • Shelest2000
    Shelest2000 15 January 2021 19: 38
    +1
    A very interesting option would be for tankers, pilots (in the NZ), etc. Ours would definitely not hurt.
    PS But the folding stock just suggests itself.
  • tasha
    tasha 15 January 2021 04: 56
    +13
    It's a funny thing. I agree that "the novelty will flirt with the civilian audience with its unusual appearance, taking not so much functionality, which is simply redundant for many, but the so-called wow effect."
    I'm not sure if a magazine like this under the barrel is good for a pistol. How will it feel when shooting, while the weight changes and shifts?
    The bottom bar requires a front grip and converts the pistol into a compact submachine gun. I think the movie drug lords will really like it.
    1. Revolver
      Revolver 15 January 2021 05: 16
      -1
      Quote: tasha
      The bottom bar requires a front handle

      So that's why the bar is, cling to it what you like best. True, it will not fit into every holster, and if you drag it around the belt, the handle will certainly catch on your panties or something else. lol
      Quote: tasha
      and the pistol turns into a compact submachine gun.
      I am sure that conversion into a machine gun will not require high qualifications, even a novice locksmith can handle it, but for such "skill" without the written permission of the authorities they can be imprisoned, automatic weapons are prohibited by federal law.
      1. tasha
        tasha 15 January 2021 05: 23
        +7
        I was wrong about PP. Just holding a weapon weighing under 2kg and a length of 38cm with one hand is not for everyone.
        You are right about the handle. In general, an incomprehensible animal turned out. It is possible that some kind of body kit will be made for him and turned into a carbine. On the other hand, how to hunt with such a cartridge? The game will run away with a hole and that's it ...
        1. Aleksandr1971
          Aleksandr1971 15 January 2021 08: 10
          +3
          Then the forend
        2. Andrey.AN
          Andrey.AN 15 January 2021 14: 56
          0
          Apparently, this little thing is held with two hands and without a handle, like in biathlon approximately.
    2. Cowbra
      Cowbra 15 January 2021 08: 33
      +3
      That's right, this is a PP without a stock and with a single fire. That is why the bracket is not for a classic two-handed grip, but a full-fledged stock is made. Otherwise. seem to be. you can't hold him stupidly
    3. psiho117
      psiho117 15 January 2021 10: 38
      +2
      Quote: tasha
      The bottom bar requires a front grip and converts the pistol into a compact submachine gun.

      Add a cut-off of 2-3 shots, and a removable stock - you get an excellent MPE. Lightweight, compact, and very precise.
      1. Dmitriy Zadorozhniy
        Dmitriy Zadorozhniy 20 January 2021 06: 07
        0
        There is already something from which they flooded the store. P90 from national factories. The Belgians even thought with their heads. And here, pure wow! the effect.
  • Kot_Kuzya
    Kot_Kuzya 15 January 2021 05: 00
    +7
    Will have the same distribution as the .50 Desert Eagle. No one will carry such a bandura with him, it is wiser with such dimensions and weight to carry a submachine gun with him, he at least shoots in bursts, has a butt and is able to hold with both hands, which greatly increases the convenience and accuracy of shooting.
    1. Alex777
      Alex777 15 January 2021 17: 32
      +1
      And if it lies quietly in the car? wink
      The states are full of such users.
      A whole gang of bikers can be dispersed. laughing
      Well, the difference in price and weight with PP has not been canceled.
      Although, judging by the latest events, the "democrats" can cancel the 2nd amendment. They were very scared because. bully
      1. your1970
        your1970 18 January 2021 11: 45
        0
        Quote: Alex777
        A whole gang of bikers can be dispersed.
        Well, the difference in price and weight with PP has not been canceled.

        And bikers - naively - ride without trunks? lol
        It does not differ much in weight, in cost, it will definitely not be cheaper
        1. Alex777
          Alex777 18 January 2021 13: 01
          0
          Not much different in weight

          Almost 2 times, depending on what to compare with (MP-5 for example).
          at cost - it will definitely not be cheaper

          The machine is much more expensive.
          1. your1970
            your1970 18 January 2021 15: 04
            0
            Ultrasound micro - 2,5 kg with an equipped magazine
            MP 5 - 3 kg without cartridges (too much !!)
            ОЦ02 Cypress - 1,6 kg without cartridges
            PP91 cedar -1 kg with cartridges

            So there is a choice by weight and quite large

            At cost ...
            Conveyor The cedar is clearly cheaper than a small-scale serial pistol.
            Chilled Cedar costs 47 - that's $ 000. This is in view of the need for additional cooling and certification actions.

            Seriously think that it sewed bulletproof - it will be significantly cheaper than 600 bucks Cedar ???
            Quote: Alex777
            The machine is much more expensive.

            I have a feeling that at its cost, it will be possible to take the heels of Cedars
            1. Alex777
              Alex777 18 January 2021 19: 27
              +1
              Forget about the bulletproof awl.
              Civilians will not be given these cartridges.
              Cedars are not sold in the States. hi
              1. your1970
                your1970 18 January 2021 22: 32
                0
                Quote: Alex777
                Civilians will not be given these cartridges.
                Cedars are not sold in the States.
                - if we proceed from this position, then thank God !!! let there in the States kill each other out of anything
  • Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Kote Pan Kokhanka 15 January 2021 05: 06
    +5
    Sergey, thanks, I read about the "novos-old" wunderwaffl under coffee.
    To be honest, I was not imbued with her bells and whistles. Well, here for an amateur!
    Regards, Vlad!
    1. psiho117
      psiho117 15 January 2021 11: 07
      +3
      For some reason, the author stubbornly did the entire article, emphasizing the penetration of body armor.
      Probably, he was unaware that the 5,7 × 28mm cartridge has, in addition to a bullet with a steel core (which is not available for civilian circulation), a full range of other cartridges - there is a half-shell, and completely lead, and expansion, and various others.
      All commercially available commercial versions of cartridges are not designed to penetrate protective equipment, which has been confirmed by numerous tests.
      1. Katanikotael
        Katanikotael 15 January 2021 18: 15
        +1
        And only civilian bulletproof vests will pierce.
        And I still do not understand how much IT weighs with cartridges, is it really possible to shoot from it with one hand?
        1. psiho117
          psiho117 15 January 2021 21: 57
          0
          It seems like a loaded magazine weighs 500g. In total, it comes out almost 2 kg.
          In principle, you can shoot with one hand. But it is not necessary - it is much better to hold the weapon with both hands.
        2. realist
          realist 17 January 2021 18: 07
          0
          without cartridges 1430, plus 50 cartridges of 6 gr. total 1730 ...
  • Revolver
    Revolver 15 January 2021 05: 06
    +7
    Most states ban magazines with more than 10 rounds, and all states ban armor-piercing ammunition. And for self-defense, a small caliber is not very good, it will sew a target right through, so the risk to others is increased, and the stopping power is too small. So it is not clear where they will be able to attach this toy.
    1. Kot_Kuzya
      Kot_Kuzya 15 January 2021 05: 27
      +24
      I don’t understand the point at all in limiting the number of cartridges in the store. According to the logic of these limiters, it turns out that if a person has a pistol with a magazine for 10 rounds, then he is safe for society, and as soon as he has a pistol with a magazine for 11 rounds, then he immediately flies off the reels and begins a mass shooting. In our city yesterday, restaurants were allowed to work until 12 at night, before it was allowed to work until 11 pm, allegedly this was done to combat the coronavirus. I, too, cannot understand the logic of these prohibitors. It turns out that the corona virus does not spread until 12:XNUMX, and as soon as it breaks through midnight, the insidious virus wakes up and begins to infect people. The film "Idiocracy" is starting to become a reality.
      1. Revolver
        Revolver 15 January 2021 05: 29
        +8
        Quote: Kot_Kuzya
        According to the logic of these limiters, it turns out that if a person has a pistol with a magazine for 10 rounds, then he is safe for society, and as soon as he has a pistol with a magazine for 11 rounds, then he immediately flies off the reels and begins a mass shooting.

        Democrats ... angry am
      2. Bad_gr
        Bad_gr 16 January 2021 21: 55
        +1
        Quote: Kot_Kuzya
        In our city yesterday, restaurants were allowed to work until 12 at night, before it was allowed to work until 11 at night,

        I read somewhere that the fight against alcoholism in our country resembles the fight against diarrhea by closing toilets.
    2. tasha
      tasha 15 January 2021 05: 38
      0
      Most states ban magazines with more than 10 rounds
      They write that stores issued after 1994 and marked as "For Law enforcement only" are banned. If it is not labeled, it means it was released before 1994 and can be freely bought and sold. This is true? If so, then in this case there will be no restrictions, the store has been patented a long time ago and was probably released in large quantities ...
      1. Revolver
        Revolver 15 January 2021 06: 02
        0
        This is the first time I hear about stores with markings. They simply banned a capacity greater than 10, and that's all.
        1. tasha
          tasha 15 January 2021 06: 11
          +1
          You know better, I read it in Hanse. Here's what they write:

          On September 3, 1994, the US Congress passed the Violent Crimes Control and Law Enforcement Act, the country's most serious attempt to restrict arms trafficking. Part of it was the Federal Assault Weapons Ban legislative act, which introduced a ban on the production and possession of semi-automatic weapons (19 types, including: semi-automatic modifications of AK, UZI and Galil of Israeli production, a civilian version of the M16 assault rifle, Colt AR-15), and the magazine capacity of all civilian weapons was reduced to 10 rounds. This law became invalid in September 2004, but the US Congress did not renew it.
          1. Revolver
            Revolver 15 January 2021 06: 14
            +6
            It's just that crap in those states, where they could, forbade high-capacity stores in the territories of these states.
            1. Shopping Mall
              Shopping Mall 15 January 2021 09: 06
              +1
              Quote: Nagan
              It's just that crap in those states, where they could, forbade high-capacity stores in the territories of these states.


              It seems that this ban has long been canceled? And yes, the ban did not apply to the use of stores, only to sale. Therefore, in the last weeks or days before the ban, there was a monstrous excitement, in the shops there were swept away all 10+ stores.

              In the United States, it’s so often, as soon as Democrats start shouting about banning anything related to weapons, sales increase by an order of magnitude. Trap's weapon liberalism, on the contrary, has reduced sales, the people are not "stocked up".

              Nothing, now Biden will come up with something, the market will recover)
              1. PSih2097
                PSih2097 15 January 2021 09: 39
                +2
                Quote: AVM
                Nothing, now Biden will come up with something, the market will recover)

                already, sales climbed up, after the statements of the "donkeys" about the timing of the destruction of both the "2nd amendment" and everything connected with it ...
      2. Alex777
        Alex777 15 January 2021 20: 49
        0
        They write that stores issued after 1994 and marked as "For Law enforcement only" are banned.

        More Bush Jr. canceled all these restrictions.
        Therefore, they make a pistol for 50 rounds.
    3. psiho117
      psiho117 15 January 2021 10: 58
      +5
      Quote: Nagan
      And for self-defense, the small caliber is not very good, it will sew the target right through, so the risk to others is increased, and the stopping ability is too small

      You are wrong on all points:
      The 5,7 × 28mm cartridge has a full range of cartridges - FMG, half-shell, fully lead, expansion, armor-piercing, and various others.
      However, for civilians, cartridges with bullets with increased penetration are not available, and the commercially available options are not designed to penetrate protective equipment, which has been confirmed by tests.

      The stopping power of the 5,7 × 28mm cartridge is excellent. Even a steel-cored bullet (classified as armor-piercing in the US) releases all of its energy as it travels through a 15 cm block of gelatin.
      In the event that a bullet passes through the body right through, it will be highly destabilized, and, given the scanty mass, it will very quickly lose energy.
      1. Alexfly
        Alexfly 15 January 2021 18: 02
        -1
        That is, the TT cartridge has not yet lost its niche ...?
        1. psiho117
          psiho117 15 January 2021 22: 01
          -2
          Lost, and for a long time.
          I don't understand at all, this irrational and unreasonable love for this patron, as well as the TT shit pistol - but come on, in our country, for some reason they cause warm feelings in many.
          Strange ... request
          1. Alexfly
            Alexfly 16 January 2021 13: 56
            +1
            It's not about the cartridge, it's about the bullet. The patron is still not so bad ... Singing Diferambs 5,7x28 is from the evil one .. For ordinary citizens, this is very limited, and in some places and the bottom ..... With TT - you shouldn't be so, at least out of respect for ancestors , who walked to the Victory .. Besides, at one time the pistol was pretty and good .. Now the niche for it is amateurs and collectors .... Nobody thinks to call it shit: Colt 1911 and Browning HP, and pistols of the same era. ... And this is thought not only in our country ... Or is there something I don't understand about this?
            1. psiho117
              psiho117 16 January 2021 19: 24
              -2
              Quote: AlexFly
              It's not about the cartridge, it's about the bullet. The patron is still not so bad ...

              Can you name one advantage over 9x19mm?
              7,62x25mm has the same sleeve diameter, which means that the same amount will fit into the store. Energy is the same. The prevalence, compared with 9x19mm, is none at all. There are almost no new cartridges - enthusiasts in the States are releasing something there, for amateurs and collectors, at a price of 3 bucks per cartridge (well, you can still load the Mauser 7,63, even more old stuff).
              So why is he good? The patron has gone to the dustbin of history, accept it.
              at one time the pistol was pretty and good
              WHAT?!! what was it good for? Have you even held it in your hands, tried to do an exercise with it?
              This is a grotesque deteriorated copy of Browning Model 1903, which remained in production only because of the most severe crisis and terrible war.
              They were going to throw him into the dustbin of history back in 39g, but the outbreak of World War II prevented.
              if only out of respect for the ancestors who walked to the Victory.

              Tell this to the dead and wounded, because of crossbows and involuntary shots caused by a moronic TT-shny fuse.
              Tell this to the killed commanders and political workers, whose magazine fell out of a pistol in battle ...
              Nobody thinks to call it shit: Colt 1911 and Browning HP, but pistols from the same era
              Different.
              Colt became widespread only in America, and remained afloat, only because of the general hobby of Americans for everything big - big cars, big hamburgers, big cartridges. Without its own cartridge, this is an ordinary pistol, albeit a good one.
              Browning in general in 1935, it was already the first modern pistol, with all the inherent attributes - and the TT, with the mechanics of 1903 (also deliberately deteriorated), is not suitable for him.
              1. Alexfly
                Alexfly 17 January 2021 14: 39
                0
                [Quote] Colt became widespread only in America, and remained afloat, only because of the general hobby of Americans for everything big - big cars, big hamburgers, big cartridges. Without its own cartridge, this is an ordinary pistol, albeit a good one.
                Browning in general in 1935, it was already the first modern pistol, with all the inherent attributes - and the TT, with the mechanics of 1903 (also deliberately deteriorated), is not suitable for him. / Quote]
                For your information, TT has a Colt earring, and the frame slightly resembles the 1903 model, this is where the comparisons end, in terms of energy, the TT cartridge is 1,5 times stronger than the Luger. Due to the smaller caliber and higher speed, respectively, class 2 of protection can be pierced by replacing the bullet.
                Where there is no development, in Russia there is practically no opportunity to engage in amateur shooting ... What is good for the Yankees, they take ready-made ammunition that came from a citizen, just from amateurs and adepts ...
                Regarding fuses, both the Glock and the Walters and others have a rule to fire at the moment when you are not READY for it. As a rule, I hope you know: don't trust the fuse, don't carry a gun with a cartridge in the chamber.
              2. Alexfly
                Alexfly 19 January 2021 12: 57
                0

                this one I held and not only. I repeat TT is not a modern pistol, but a historical one, you shouldn't expect from it what we hope to have today ... YOU WILL EXPLAIN THE MECHANICS OF BROWNING 1903, I would like to see ...
  • Graz
    Graz 15 January 2021 05: 42
    0
    as I understand it, here the Mauser pistol was inspired laughing
    frankly, the usefulness of this thing is doubtful, the submachine gun is about the same size, and there will be more sense when compared with conventional pistols, then in the convenience of use they will be higher
  • Alex_You
    Alex_You 15 January 2021 06: 22
    +8
    I remembered.
    1. psiho117
      psiho117 15 January 2021 10: 43
      +6
      No, it does not reach ar-15-based pistols bully
      1. Alex777
        Alex777 15 January 2021 22: 30
        +1
        Is this picture self-loading? wink

        American Elijah Durai from Minnesota converted the AR-15 automatic rifle into a pistol for hunting deer (state laws prohibit hunting wild animals with rifles), which he designated as Solo 300.

        So more interesting:


        Sorry for the reindeer ...
  • CTABEP
    CTABEP 15 January 2021 07: 50
    +4
    The thing is certainly interesting and the view is just like in the movies, but - why is it needed when there is already an FN P90? More applied, with automatic fire and about the same dimensions?
    1. madrobot
      madrobot 15 January 2021 10: 52
      +3
      Moreover, the P90 is paired with a 20-charger FN Five-seveN. Of course, the ballistics of the pistol is different from the PDW, the barrel will be shorter, but at least you can use it, and not just scare away suckers.
    2. Alex777
      Alex777 15 January 2021 20: 52
      0
      The thing is certainly interesting and the view is just like in the movies, but - why is it needed when there is already an FN P90?

      There is a butcher in weight and, most importantly, in price.
      In addition, I have not heard that the FN P90 was sold to civilians.
      1. psiho117
        psiho117 15 January 2021 22: 05
        +1
        Quote: Alex777
        In addition, I have not heard that the FN P90 was sold to civilians

        There is a carbine. What prevents him from making a shorter trunk? Well this is Omerika bully
        Yes, and remake under automatic fire, if desired.
        1. Alex777
          Alex777 15 January 2021 22: 21
          0
          FN P90 is Belgium. wink

          In 2005, a self-loading carbine for purchase by civilians called the PS90 entered the market. In this model, there is no possibility of automatic fire and the magazine is reduced (10 or 30 rounds), as well as the length of the barrel is increased in comparison with the original.

          For civilian restrictions. In order not to be naughty. hi
  • Shopping Mall
    Shopping Mall 15 January 2021 09: 09
    +1
    The very concept of small-caliber weapons attracts me extremely, but not in the presented form.

    Considered it here:
    A promising army pistol based on the PDW concept
    https://topwar.ru/163548-perspektivnyj-armejskij-pistolet-na-baze-koncepcii-pdw.html

    Carabiner kit and attachments for a promising pistol
    https://topwar.ru/163662-karabin-kit-i-navesnoe-oborudovanie-dlja-perspektivnogo-pistoleta.html

    Stop cannot be killed. Where to put a comma?
    https://topwar.ru/164162-ostanovit-nelzja-ubit-gde-postavit-zapjatuju.html
  • garri-lin
    garri-lin 15 January 2021 09: 35
    0
    He lacks a clever butt. So that when folded it becomes the front handle and when it is unfolded with the butt itself. Well, and a kolyimator. In principle, for aircraft pilots, for self-defense should be a good fit. It is interesting to realize such a 9x21 cartridge?
    1. psiho117
      psiho117 15 January 2021 11: 18
      0
      Quote: garri-lin
      It is interesting to realize such a 9x21 cartridge?

      Is there heather already? PP-2000, AEK-918, etc.
      And if you are just about such a pistol with such a magazine, then no, it will not work. We have already tried it, such stores work stably only with intermediate / PDV-intermediate cartridges.
      Classic pistol cartridges cannot be made to work stably in such stores.
      1. garri-lin
        garri-lin 15 January 2021 12: 17
        0
        Why do they work with intermediate ones and not with pistol ones? Because of the shape of the sleeve?
        1. psiho117
          psiho117 15 January 2021 13: 35
          0
          Yes. I met a similar opinion on the Hansa.
          There, and so the store, structurally, is not the most reliable - because of its scheme with a step-by-step rotation of the cartridges by 90 degrees, but with this cartridge it still works tolerably well, thanks to the greater elongation and taper of the sleeve.
          Apparently, there will be bumps and distortions with ordinary cartridges.
          But is it 100% true - I don't know. In principle, judging by the fact that no one in these 30 years has made such a store for "classic" pistol cartridges - this opinion seems to be true.
          1. garri-lin
            garri-lin 15 January 2021 13: 42
            0
            Clear. Thank.
            1. psiho117
              psiho117 15 January 2021 13: 44
              0
              Damn, I wanted to insert a schematic, it does not work.
              In:
              https://leonardo.osnova.io/5b3e49f1-36a6-527f-b801-34899fe24d33/-/format/mp4/
              https://leonardo.osnova.io/f8eb18d8-bdbf-5164-af30-7fafda5ccc34/-/format/mp4/
              https://leonardo.osnova.io/cedaad81-bf4f-54a0-9f53-2d59b5be849f/-/format/mp4/
              As you can see, there are many opportunities for delays.
  • Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 15 January 2021 09: 39
    0
    And Schwarzenegger is not the same. They loved to shoot such pistols in science fiction ..... Now, apart from Marvel, nothing is being filmed.
  • sgrabik
    sgrabik 15 January 2021 09: 51
    -4
    The fact that this American pistol is capable of successfully penetrating all types of modern body armor is already a big plus and at the same time a big problem, our developers and manufacturers of small arms and body armor need to draw appropriate conclusions from this !!!
  • dgonni
    dgonni 15 January 2021 09: 52
    +2
    Such a little job. Not much in general! In fact, this is a submachine gun with a stripped-down automatic fire function. The balance of the weapon in the process of firing will constantly change, given the horizontal placement of the store. Therefore, I have great doubts that it can be used as a pistol. And if you take into account the mass of weapons, then even more so.
    A niche barrel for those who like to shoot? Yes. How are the professionals' weapons? And no. The same FN P90 is more preferable in this regard.
  • Mark kalendarov
    Mark kalendarov 15 January 2021 10: 41
    0
    The fight for weight for civilian and police firearms is just a PR topic on the subject "would it be if ...". Journalists and experts also need to show their importance and competence, and so the reasons and rumors are mutilated ...
    And in this gun, everything is decided by the introduction of the store nomenclature. At 25, 35 ... Yes, whatever ...
  • the47th
    the47th 15 January 2021 10: 50
    0
    The "no chance for body armor" cartridge does not penetrate class IIIA. (For comparison: 7N21 penetrates class III.)
    1. psiho117
      psiho117 15 January 2021 14: 47
      +1
      Quote: the47th
      For comparison: 7N21 penetrates class III

      Since when? with 7n31 not confused?
      7Н21 - Muzzle energy - about 550 J.
      V10 445-470m / s (oh, these are our dissimilar cartridges), Core weight 3,7-3,8g.
      Penetrates class 2 body armor, or 5mm steel sheet at a distance of 35m 80%. The highest value of the maximum pressure of the powder gases, no more than 220 MPa.

      7n31 - V10, 560-595m / s
      Core weight 2,2-2,3g.
      It penetrates class 3 body armor, or 8mm steel sheet, at a distance of 10-15m 100%, and at a distance of more than 25m it penetrates a class 2a armor. The highest value of the maximum pressure of the powder gases, no more than 294 MPa.

      For comparison:
      SS190 AP FMJ cartridge with a 2g bullet, has 534J and 715m / s, the highest value of the maximum pressure of powder gases, no more than 345 MPa. At a distance of 25m, it penetrates a class 2 armor, followed by a 25cm penetration into gelatin.
      I think if FN in the mid-2000s, following the KBP, released a new armor-piercing cartridge, it would have superior 7n31 armor penetration characteristics, and so the existing cartridge mod. 1993 has similar indicators.
      1. the47th
        the47th 16 January 2021 13: 35
        0
        Yes, I confused it with 7H31.
        In any case, 2a according to GOST 1995 is almost III class according to NIJ (provides protection against .308 with a lead bullet). SS190 penetrates class II according to NIJ, and it provides protection worse than class II according to GOST.
        To provide SS190 with better armor penetration, you need to either make a harder core (for example, from Pobedit, which is very expensive), or increase the power - hence the pressure in the barrel - which automatically makes the existing weapon of this caliber unsuitable for a new cartridge.
        And so, armor-piercing SS190 is at the level of 9x18 mm PBM. With significantly worse MTO.
        1. psiho117
          psiho117 16 January 2021 18: 24
          +1
          Quote: the47th
          To provide SS190 with the best armor penetration, either ...

          You can just go back to the first version of the cartridge, with a 1g bullet. He had a bullet speed of 850 m / s and higher armor penetration.
          You can work with the shape and location of the core by exposing its nose - as was done in Russian armor-piercing cartridges.
          or make a harder core (for example, from Pobedit, which is very expensive)
          Where does "very" come from? Plants buy up Pobeditovy scrap for a penny - depending on the brand - from 1000r to 1800r for kilogram, and the core needs no more than a gram.
          either increase the power ... which automatically makes it unusable ... the existing weapon

          All modern weapons are made with a decent margin of pressure in the barrel and chamber, otherwise it would be impossible to use the P + and + P + cartridges from old barrels. No, sometimes there are delays, breakdowns, and problems with automation - but most weapons without problems withstand a pressure increase of 25-30%, or even 50%.
  • Alexfly
    Alexfly 15 January 2021 18: 00
    0
    For flyers, a product, a weapon of last chance ... the FN cartridge is good, I agree ...
  • boriz
    boriz 15 January 2021 19: 12
    -1
    But he is clearly unbalanced. You will get tired of holding, aiming. It will fall forward.
  • voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 15 January 2021 20: 03
    +3
    This weapon will be popular with gangsters and terrorists.
    groupings.
    Who are fighting just against people in body armor.
    Moreover, this caliber is not suitable for the police and special forces.
    You cannot shoot in a crowd - a pointed bullet pierces right through.
    Citizens will suffer for the purpose.
    The special services need the usual 9 mm Luger. Knocked down, stunned and enough.
    1. psiho117
      psiho117 15 January 2021 22: 17
      +1

      Quote: voyaka uh
      this caliber is not suitable for police and special forces.
      Can't shoot in a crowd - a pointed bullet pierces right through

      You repeat the same nonsense after the author of the article.
      The 5,7 × 28mm cartridge has a full range of cartridges - there are both FMG and half-shell, expansion, and full lead.
      Cartridges with bullets of increased penetration are not available to civilians.
      The commercially available civilian versions of the cartridge are not designed to penetrate protective equipment, which has been confirmed by tests.
      The special services need the usual 9 mm Luger.

      Tell the secret services themselves.
      More than 20 countries are armed with a pistol, and more than 30 countries - PP under this cartridge. Moreover, among the operators there are very serious offices and special forces, such as the American and Saudi Secret Service, the French GIGN, DGSE and RAID, the German BKA, the Italian 9th Airborne Assault Regiment, etc. intelligence agencies around the world.
      German 4.6 × 30 is also very popular - again, more than 30 countries are in service - with what, again, not the police, but all sorts of special forces.
  • Sergey Kulikov_3
    Sergey Kulikov_3 15 January 2021 23: 25
    -1
    Something is not written about the thickness of such a pistol.
    Ha, I have some work on it, we need to make a trigger for all the cartridges in the store. Here the enemies attack from the right and left, and you press a special hook and bullets fly to the right, cartridges to the left, the enemy is dumbfounded and killed, in general shock, horror, diarrhea, death. I give a valuable idea to the developers of this device :)
  • Maxwrx
    Maxwrx 17 January 2021 03: 05
    0
    An extremely dubious pistol. It looks cool, of course, the cartridge is relevant, but too heavy, oversized and also expensive!
    In this weight, you can have PP, for example MP9 (1,4 kg), PP-2000 (1,4 kg), OTs-22 (1,2 kg)
    And under this cartridge, for example, a Five-seveN pistol with an empty weight of 0,61 kg is produced. And they have shops incl. for 30 rounds.
    Do not forget that learning to shoot with a pistol is more difficult (and more expensive) than with a submachine gun, so it will definitely not go to power structures as an alternative to submachine guns.
    And for the civilian market, the cartridge is specific. Lower stopping power compared to 9mm. Small caliber makes hunting quality questionable. At least people hunt with a desert needle.
    So what is this pistol for?
    It is difficult for me to imagine the meaning of why I should carry a pistol with 1,7 kg cartridges that is not capable of firing a burst and most likely is not yet convenient because overall and due to the location of the store, the center of mass will be displaced even further from the hand.
    It turns out his niche - collectors of rare weapons, who just outwardly liked it. But certainly not in terms of rationality and efficiency.
  • shinobi
    shinobi 17 January 2021 07: 54
    0
    When creating a cartridge 5,7x28, as well as 30, the idea of ​​a Mauser was used. That simply shortened the rifle cartridge. There is no need to create a separate production for the patoron. The size of the bullet, the same diameter and the shape of the sleeve. The same idea was used by Tokarev. Our gunsmiths do not began to bother with cartridge 5,45, since the dispute about the effectiveness of bullets 7,62 or 5,45 is still going on.
  • mongol9999
    mongol9999 20 January 2021 08: 45
    0
    Too far forward, and changing during shooting, the center of gravity does not contribute to accuracy.
  • Zementbomber
    Zementbomber 23 January 2021 03: 53
    0
    The 5,7 mm ammunition was developed in the early 2000s

    At the end of 1980-x in fact.hi
  • Sevastiec
    Sevastiec 27 January 2021 04: 09
    0
    Where can you call it compact ?!
  • Comrade Kim
    Comrade Kim 27 February 2021 00: 49
    0
    Quote: Bad_gr
    For a small amount of gunpowder, what's the point of making a case of this size (one and a half times longer than 9x19)?

    Normally, powder is poured there.
    And the return from FN Fife Seven is decent.
    Another thing is that the Keltech with a full magazine of 50 rounds has a higher mass than the FN 5.7.