Military Review

How will the attempt to use Bayraktars against the surface component of the Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Navy turn out for Kiev?

119

As you know, the very successful use by the Air Force of Azerbaijan in the Karabakh theater of operations of the Turkish attack and reconnaissance UAV "Bayraktar TB2", during the first few days after the start of the next escalation round, brought down several key object and zone-object anti-aircraft "umbrellas" The NKR Defense Army and the Armenian Air Defense Forces made a real sensation, both in the circles of the most Russophobic "hotheads" of the defense department of the "Independent", and in the command of the Ukrainian Navy, which does not have the proper level of competence and foresight.


And, as further monitoring of the media space of the "Nezalezhnaya" showed, the Azerbaijani experience of the combat use of "Bayraktar" was not only mistakenly interpreted by representatives of the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine as a kind of reference method for the use of this type of strike reconnaissance drones in any theaters of military operations.

For our reckless and too aggressive southwestern neighbor, it has turned into a kind of motivational driver in favor of concluding multimillion-dollar deals with Baykar Makina for the purchase of several dozen Bayraktar TB2 UAVs.

And also in favor of developing a concept for the use of Turkish drones against the surface component of the Black Sea fleet Russian Navy (in case of an increase in the degree of tension in the Azov-Black Sea conventional theater of operations).

How will the attempt to use the Bayraktar TB2 UAV end up in possible provocations at the Black Sea theater of operations?


Such an unambiguous conclusion involuntarily suggests itself after a detailed acquaintance with the recent statement of the Commander of the Ukrainian Navy, Oleksiy Neizhpapa, in which the Ukrainian commander announced the start of deliveries of shock-reconnaissance systems based on the Bayraktar TB2 UAV to the Ukrainian Navy in 2021.

According to him, the two top-priority items in the list of tasks of Turkish multipurpose UAVs will be the implementation of optical-electronic, radio-technical and radar reconnaissance (in the latter case, we can talk about a deeply improved modification of the Bayraktar, equipped with an airborne AFAR radar with the implementation of the synthetic aperture mode and interferometric radio reconnaissance antennas) at the Azov-Black Sea theater of operations, as well as support for the actions of the Naval Forces of Ukraine on the coast, in the littoral zone and the waters of the Black and Azov Seas.

It is not difficult to assume that against the backdrop of comprehensive operational and strategic support for the "square" from London and Washington (including the upcoming construction in the port of Odessa and Ochakovo mooring infrastructure for mooring frigates and destroyers of the British Navy, as well as the operational base of the US Navy), under the second point in the list of tasks for the purchased "Bayraktar" may well hide direct participation in the traditional for Kiev "power dives" with patrol boats guard boats of the FSB PS of Russia and provocations with "breakthroughs" through the Kerch Strait.

Moreover, the soil for such provocations became much more fertile after the Verkhovna Rada ratified Bill No. 8361 "On the Adjacent Zone of Ukraine", which provides for the expansion of the controlled zone of the high seas (adjacent to the territorial waters of the "Square") from 12 to 24 miles.

And here a completely logical question arises: what are the nature and degree of threats posed to the FSB security guard and the surface component of the Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Navy from the units or squadrons of the "naval" "Bayraktar TB2" of the Ukrainian Navy?

Thus, having a relatively small RCS (about 0,2–0,3 sq. M.) And loitering in Ukrainian or neutral airspace over the western part of the Black Sea, the Bayraktar TB2 strike-reconnaissance drones are quite capable of locating the boats of the FSB PS and surface ships of the Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Navy either by means of turret multispectral optoelectronic complexes MX-15D WESCAM (in a favorable meteorological situation at a distance of about 100 km), or by means of on-board radio and electronic reconnaissance systems (based on the radiation of general ship radars "Fregat-M2M", "Positive М1.2 "or communication systems and tactical information exchange).

Then, target designation can be carried out by the coastal SCRC RK-360MTs "Neptune" that has entered combat duty with the final launches of the R-360 anti-ship missile system.

Meanwhile, the protected radio channels used by the Bayraktar in the course of target designation for the exchange of tactical information with ground combat control points or the PBU of the anti-ship battalions of the Neptune SCRC will turn the drones into radio-emitting sources, which can be successfully guided by the airborne RTR / RER means of the Russian Aerospace Forces.

After that, to intercept the drones, either the Su-35S multifunctional fighters and the MiG-31BM interceptors, or the long-range 9M82MV missiles deployed on the territory of the Republic of Crimea of ​​the S-300V4 anti-aircraft missile systems, launched on target designation, can be used.

Equally promptly (by emitting terminals for the exchange of tactical information with Bayraktars in the air), the RTR / RER of the Russian Aerospace Forces will also detect drones combat control points. After that, Iskander-M will strike at them.

And this is not to mention the fact that in the case of an echelon of 1900-2000 m in the airspace of the "square" over the Odessa region, "Bayraktars" will automatically appear within the radio horizon of the illumination and guidance radars 92Н6Е and 9С32М4 of the S-400 "Triumph "And S-300V4. This means that they can be intercepted by these systems even without the involvement of third-party target designation means.

Apparently, being in an insane euphoria from Western support, Ukrainian military "experts" are still far from understanding that the above-mentioned illumination radars based on PFAR have a much higher energy potential (they can detect a Bayraktar-type target at a distance of 200 250 km), noise immunity and sensitivity of the receiving paths than the 35 / 36D6 radar detectors of early modifications, unfortunately, unsuccessfully used by the Armenian air defense forces (as part of the S-300PT / PS air defense system) against the Azerbaijani Bayraktars.

Naturally, in the situation described above, there can be no question of any Ukrainian Bayraktar launching MAM-L guided munitions and L-UMTAS anti-tank guided missiles against FSB FSB patrol boats and surface ships of the Black Sea Fleet.

Since the carriers of the first will be destroyed at a distance of about 100-150 km from the western coast of Crimea.

As for the launched subsonic anti-ship missiles R-360 "Neptune", the low maneuverability and EPR of the order of 0,2 sq. m will turn them into excellent targets not only for ship-borne medium-range air defense systems "Shtil-1" (deployed on frigates of the "Admiral's series" pr. 11356R "Burevestnik"), but also for turret air defense systems of self-defense "Gibka-R" (placed on small missile ships pr. 21631 "Buyan-M").
Author:
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Ukroboronprom
119 comments
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  1. ZhorikVartanov
    ZhorikVartanov 15 January 2021 05: 16
    -25%
    Another shapkozakidatelskaya article, but as it comes to it, then everything is interfering.
    1. fa2998
      fa2998 15 January 2021 06: 10
      -48%
      I agree! In the last war, the Black Sea Fleet had complete superiority over the enemy. As a result, it hid in the Caucasian ports for fear of aviation. And had a powerful fleet aviation. It didn’t grow together! hi
      1. WapentakeLokki
        WapentakeLokki 15 January 2021 19: 35
        +12
        ... well, you are lying about aviation ... the Stukas squadrons carried out both the Angles in the Mediterranean and the Black Sea Fleet on the Black Sea ... and, by the way, both here and there the fleet had FULL EXCELLENCE ... and that ... as they drowned there and drowned in our place (the only goal on Black was less)
    2. Civil
      Civil 15 January 2021 08: 30
      +35
      How will the attempt to use Bayraktars against the surface component of the Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Navy turn out for Kiev?

      Loss of statehood. There is no other way out.
      1. dSK
        dSK 15 January 2021 08: 57
        +3
        Turkey already has a lot of real experience in using UAVs, and if NATO organizes a "hit" on the DPR in the summer, the Turks will sit at the UAV consoles ...
        And we have only prototypes at test sites. Underdeveloped microelectronics severely constrains the production of our UAVs ...
        1. Civil
          Civil 15 January 2021 08: 58
          +13
          Underdeveloped microelectronics

          Rather, "badly killed" in 30 years.
          1. Escobar
            Escobar 15 January 2021 22: 22
            -3
            Underdeveloped industry as a whole, from deep oil racing and chemical production to high-tech industries. At first, we bought for oil tanks in the west, but right now, as the wooden one was wrapped up again, the supply channels were closed, we were running around. Import substitution got busy. And given that many factories were closed, this turned out to be problematic.
            1. ultra
              ultra 16 January 2021 10: 27
              +7
              Quote: Eskobar
              Underdeveloped industry as a whole, from deep oil racing and chemical production to high-tech industries.

              It depends on whom you compare with. If it is with the USSR, now the oil industry has become an order of magnitude more technological.
              1. Escobar
                Escobar 16 January 2021 10: 34
                -11%
                Well, besides, for 30 years with Western equipment, it has degraded. And you compare with the completeness of processing by the Saudis or the United States.
                1. Stepan S
                  Stepan S 16 January 2021 13: 22
                  +9
                  Our oil refining depth is ~ 83%, this is not enough
              2. antivirus
                antivirus 16 January 2021 12: 37
                +13
                do not write nonsense - the solutions were simple. kerosene gasoline goes up to MAZUT - the main fuel, then the reserve fuel.
                until the gas pipelines were built. heating and power on black (+ coal) kept.
                everything was deliberately proportional.
                The efficiency of the southern refineries (Grozny) was higher - the winter was warm, and the average strip and the north - their efficiency for fuel oil was left (for specific Gigacalories, it could have been calculated - taking into account kindergarten schools and military units) !!!!!!!!! !!!!!
                !!!!!!!!!! the priority was different - not premium gasoline, but so that children in the winter on the floor sitting with their booty in kindergartens played with dolls-cars.
            2. Vadim237
              Vadim237 16 January 2021 22: 45
              +1
              The industry, as well as the element base for the military-industrial complex, is decently developed, and the rest in the civil sector is catching up and, by import substitution, 1600 items of products have replaced what they buy inside the country and abroad, and so much we produce.
        2. Trapp1st
          Trapp1st 15 January 2021 11: 14
          +8
          Turks will sit at the UAV consoles ...
          Let only the hats be put on, hail with a tornado and a strong north wind are possible.
          1. Intruder
            Intruder 15 January 2021 22: 48
            -14%
            hail with tornado and strong north wind are possible.
            exactly, the Great Armenian Syndrome from the same area, last year already ... :)
            1. Trapp1st
              Trapp1st 18 January 2021 12: 36
              +5
              exactly the great Armenian syndrome from the same area
              Have you equated the Russian Army with the armed formations of Nagorno-Karabakh? Fabulous person.
              1. Intruder
                Intruder 18 January 2021 12: 59
                -2
                Have you equated the Russian Army with the armed formations of Nagorno-Karabakh?
                what do you mean ?, and where could I make this outrageous and fatal oversight !? :)))
          2. free_flier
            free_flier 16 January 2021 07: 11
            +5
            Don't give a fuck who turns into a sieve ...
            Yes, and neizhpapa many times will become nezhmomma
          3. Sanichsan
            Sanichsan 18 January 2021 00: 09
            -1
            Quote: Trapp1st
            and a strong north wind.

            "Hurricane" you mean?
        3. Garris199
          Garris199 16 January 2021 04: 17
          +10
          Turks will sit at the UAV consoles

          Not for long.
        4. Old major
          Old major 17 January 2021 00: 06
          +2
          Do you think that in the upcoming war there will be oncoming air battles between our and enemy drones?
          Do you understand what the article is about?
          Yes, and along the way, tell me about the tactics of the massive use of shock UAVs in modern warfare ...
      2. SSR
        SSR 17 January 2021 11: 23
        +4
        Quote: Civil
        How will the attempt to use Bayraktars against the surface component of the Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Navy turn out for Kiev?

        Loss of statehood. There is no other way out.

        An interesting observation, the maydauns each time begin to appeal to the fact that with the collapse of the USSR, the Ukrainian abandoned nuclear weapons in exchange, but now the Ukrainian immediately began to forget that they wanted to give Crimea to NATO.
        What I mean is that they ogrebvt again and start yelling - and why are we ?!
      3. madsnail1242
        madsnail1242 17 January 2021 21: 27
        -3
        Those. So this should be understood - if Ukraine can successfully use UAVs on its own territory, will this lead to a full-scale Russian invasion of this sovereign state?
        1. Sanichsan
          Sanichsan 18 January 2021 00: 12
          +2
          Quote: madsnail1242
          if Ukraine can successfully use UAVs on its own territory

          speaking about the outskirts, the question of "own territory" is very ambiguous wink
      4. Igoresha
        Igoresha 19 January 2021 21: 51
        -2
        Loss of statehood. There is no other way out.
        oh ... with gas discounts and deep concern rather, the Kremlin learned this phrase well
    3. Invoce
      Invoce 15 January 2021 16: 22
      +14
      And no one will focus on the destruction of some power supply units!
      the means of RTR / RER of the Russian Aerospace Forces will also detect points of combat control of drones. After that, Iskander-M will strike at them.

      And not only at the control points of the BP, a blow will most likely be struck at airfields, bases of registration of boats, command and control centers, etc.
      And NATO will once again start squealing about Russia's aggression, as in August 2008
      1. DominickS
        DominickS 15 January 2021 19: 43
        +14
        This is an unnecessary escalation. The destruction of the litaks themselves, the PBU and the launching Neptuns would be quite enough for the forelocks to begin a massive discharge from the Ukrainians.
        1. Alex777
          Alex777 15 January 2021 22: 01
          +6
          UAV guidance points are decision-making points.
          And the decision-making places for GDP must be destroyed.
          1. Meshchersky
            Meshchersky 20 January 2021 17: 24
            +1
            So it is necessary for the pentagonal nest across the ocean.
        2. free_flier
          free_flier 16 January 2021 07: 17
          +10
          Come on ... real workouts will not interfere with ours either. To hysteria - NATO has written it ... do not take the forelocks into captivity, they themselves called themselves "non-brothers", with them, as with the Hungarians in the Great Patriotic War.
    4. Stepan S
      Stepan S 16 January 2021 13: 20
      +1
      And what has already reached the point? Here in the Donbass it came to what? They pointed to the place even without using all the forces and means.
    5. businessv
      businessv 16 January 2021 13: 25
      +8
      Quote: ZhorikVartanov
      Another shapkozakidatelskaya article, but as it comes to it, then everything is interfering.

      Either E. Damantsev is accused of all-proprietary articles, now of hap-handed articles! You cannot please! smile A normal view of the possible development of events, as a normal person sees it.
    6. Black Colonel
      Black Colonel 18 January 2021 22: 30
      -1
      Can you give an example "to the point"?
  2. Thrifty
    Thrifty 15 January 2021 05: 19
    -19%
    Eugene, in our country all decisions are made directly by "self-knowledge", and he does not want to slap "partners" for a reason. ... in short, it is possible that the vukriy will actually fire at our ships from the ubpl, the ships will conduct anti-aircraft fire, but the order to hit the ubpl bases will never come. For "partners" to beat up niiizzy! !! So, draw your own conclusions. ...
    1. Dart2027
      Dart2027 15 January 2021 23: 08
      +16
      Quote: Thrifty
      Eugene, in our country all decisions are made directly by "self-knowledge", and he does not want to slap "partners" for a reason. ...shortly speaking

      Saakashvili in the know?
      1. free_flier
        free_flier 16 January 2021 07: 18
        +6
        And then!
        He swears by a tie!
    2. Stepan S
      Stepan S 16 January 2021 13: 25
      +1
      And don't hope for it
  3. Lipchanin
    Lipchanin 15 January 2021 05: 23
    +1
    under the second item in the list of tasks for the purchased "Bayraktar" may well hide direct participation in the traditional for Kiev "power picks" with patrol boats of the guard boats of the FSB PS of Russia and provocations with "breakthroughs" through the Kerch Strait.

    But when will they finally settle down ...
    Restless ...
  4. Charik
    Charik 15 January 2021 06: 06
    +4
    If these birds, by sea, will supply the enta barge with them, they simply have to burst in half or crash into a livestock truck and sink
    1. Lipchanin
      Lipchanin 15 January 2021 06: 11
      +1
      Quote: Charik
      or crash into a livestock truck and sink

      Not desirable. Cattle sorry
      Will suffer
      1. Revolver
        Revolver 15 January 2021 06: 23
        +1
        Quote: Lipchanin
        Cattle sorry

        Well, these cattle skakuas are not so sorry.
        1. Lipchanin
          Lipchanin 15 January 2021 06: 24
          +3
          Quote: Nagan
          Well, these cattle skakuas are not so sorry.

          I'm talking about cattle on a cattle truck, not on troughs with machine guns
          1. Revolver
            Revolver 15 January 2021 06: 25
            +2
            Quote: Lipchanin
            Quote: Nagan
            Well, these cattle skakuas are not so sorry.

            I'm talking about cattle on a cattle truck, not on troughs with machine guns
            lol good hi drinks
            1. Lipchanin
              Lipchanin 15 January 2021 06: 29
              0
              Mutually drinks
              Moreover, it is necessary to complete treatment laughing
        2. free_flier
          free_flier 16 January 2021 07: 20
          0
          It is unlikely that that barge will crash on a rubber boat with Ukrainians ...
  5. Dimy4
    Dimy4 15 January 2021 06: 37
    +4
    Interesting surnames they have there in the leadership, yesterday Malyuska flashed, today here Below ... uh Neizhpapy, Nozdrya also spoke his weighty words. The selection criterion is by last name, the more interesting it sounds, the more chances you have to take a position.
    1. free_flier
      free_flier 16 January 2021 07: 23
      +2
      That is, a hohlogovorun with a surname of three or five letters corresponding to the names of the genitals, a potential candidate for prezik vnadUkraine?
  6. rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 15 January 2021 06: 43
    +1
    How will the attempt to use "Bayraktars" turn out for Kiev ...
    I hope finally the final point will be made on this hostile state. They have already gotten, especially over the past six years, to the handle and are not going to stop.
  7. tone
    tone 15 January 2021 06: 44
    -17%
    For Kiev, an attempt to drown the troughs of 22160 without ANY air defense will turn into a triumph ... And for our MIDA deep concern ... Well, maybe they will try to ban some tomatoes or what they sell us from vegetables.
    1. sgrabik
      sgrabik 15 January 2021 09: 15
      +8
      What kind of triumph it can turn out for Kiev, we will all see, most likely, Kiev will not have any triumph, but it will be a complete fiasco, so that with any attempt to air or missile attack on our ships or other military facilities, they will receive an adequate and very convincing response a blow to the places of basing and decision-making on the territory of Ukraine is a fact, and those who doubt it are extremely stupid.
      1. tone
        tone 15 January 2021 13: 06
        -18%
        The same answer as after the shooting down of the Mi-24 by Azerbaijan ... Tomatoes will answer!
        So you will win!
        1. sgrabik
          sgrabik 16 January 2021 13: 59
          0
          No, not tomatoes, this time Calibers and Iskanders will be much more convincing than tomatoes !!!
        2. Vadim237
          Vadim237 16 January 2021 22: 50
          +3
          The Azerbaijani side immediately apologized and will pay compensation - and if Dill attacks our ship or base, it will already be pure aggression with corresponding consequences.
          1. tone
            tone 17 January 2021 04: 42
            -5
            Well, the Ukrainians will apologize. Nothing will be fleshed like the Azerbaijanis. And that the Azerbaijanis apologized, our Foreign Ministry said. Azerov, the ambassador did not apologize, said it happens.
  8. Odysseus
    Odysseus 15 January 2021 06: 46
    +5
    Surprisingly strange logic. Why use "Bayrakty" on ships of the Black Sea Fleet when they will be used in Donbass?
    The first task of the Maidan Ukraine is to eliminate the DPR and LPR. In that case, of course, if Moscow does not give them away on the terms of Ukraine (on the terms of the Minsk agreements, Maidan Ukraine itself does not want to accept them).
    Accordingly, they will be used there. While they are few and the main thing is not enough ammunition, but potentially there they can create big problems. Since the armies of the DPR and LPR in their current state will not hold out even for 2 weeks. And the Russian army, due to the recognition of Donbass as the territory of Ukraine, will have to be used in the “ichtamnet” format, with all the ensuing consequences of the use of large formations and air support.
    The question with Crimea will be raised by the West (which controls Ukraine) only after the problem with Donbass is resolved.
    1. Ka-52
      Ka-52 15 January 2021 07: 02
      +8
      Accordingly, they will be used there. While they are few and the main thing is not enough ammunition, but they can potentially create big problems there.

      the territory of Donbass seems to be quite tightly covered with an air defense cap (whose it is a separate issue). Otherwise ukroVVS would try to work with the same guided weapons. UkroVVS has Su-25, albeit in a deplorable state, but it does. They can work from heights, excluding the defeat of MANPADS. Why spend $ 60 million for a TV-2 set? But the aircraft of the horses is idle, and the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine loudly announces large-scale purchases of UAVs. It seems like another knight's move to show off.
      1. Odysseus
        Odysseus 15 January 2021 14: 50
        +1
        Quote: Ka-52
        Otherwise ukroVVS would try to work with the same guided weapons.

        This is how they worked in 2014. Only the Su-25s were killed, the pilots' raid is scanty and there is simply no controlled weapon (not soured in time). Therefore, the results were appropriate ....
        Quote: Ka-52
        They can work from heights, excluding the defeat of MANPADS. Why spend $ 60 million for a TV-2 set?

        Perhaps only in squares.
        By itself, the purchase of shock UAVs is quite reasonable, but whether they will be able to use them normally is a question. But here NATO-ts "can help"
        Quote: Ka-52
        the territory of Donbass seems to be quite tightly covered with an air defense cap (whose it is a separate issue)

        From the territory of Russia, the part is covered. And yes, in case of war, they will work from our territory. And transfer electronic warfare equipment. But with work from the territory of Donbass proper there will be problems, for formally this is the territory of a foreign state.
        1. Ka-52
          Ka-52 18 January 2021 05: 04
          0
          Perhaps only in squares.
          By itself, the purchase of shock UAVs is quite reasonable, but whether they will be able to use them normally is a question. But here NATO-ts "can help"

          in your alternate universe, the Su-25 cannot use laser-illuminated guided munitions? Why is the TV-2's missile launch capabilities better than the Su-25's?
          This is how they worked in 2014. Only the Su-25s were killed, the pilots' raid is scanty and there is simply no controlled weapon (not soured in time). Therefore, the results were appropriate ....

          that's it. As soon as they received losses, they immediately stopped flying. Still.
          because formally it is the territory of a foreign state.

          aha, and that this other military equipment (MBT, BMP, armored personnel carrier) transferred to the republics does not violate the status of "territory of a foreign state"? Or do you think that the "north wind" brings only humanitarian aid to Donbass?
          1. Odysseus
            Odysseus 19 January 2021 03: 23
            0
            Quote: Ka-52
            in your alternate universe, the Su-25 cannot use laser-illuminated guided munitions? Why is the TV-2's missile launch capabilities better than the Su-25's?

            To put it mildly, you are impolite in the conversation, and besides, you do not read what they write to you. It's not that the Su-25 can, but that Ukraine has did not have in 2014, the guided missiles were not out of date and there were no pilots who would have had experience of using them. As far as I know, the situation has not changed much now. Under Baytarakty they buy 200 Roketsan MAM-L, which are native to them. Another thing is that this is a small amount.
            As for the capabilities of the Su-25, then its sighting system (borrowed, by the way, from the Su-17M3). was considered simple already in the 80s. Now it is a rare archaic. Yes, theoretically, with the help of Klen, it is possible to work with the X-29, but in practice this was rarely done, and in the case of modern Maidan Ukraine it is completely impossible.
            Quote: Ka-52
            aha, and that this other military equipment (MBT, BMP, armored personnel carrier) transferred to the republics does not violate the status of "territory of a foreign state"? Or do you think that the "north wind" brings only humanitarian aid to Donbass?

            Break into the open door. I write-the format will be "there is no". You ask questions using the "ihtamnet" format as an example. All equipment will be transferred unofficially, officially, "found in the mines" It will be the same with the soldiers, the format is "vacationers", not the army. Only in an even worse version, since 2014-early 2015 is the time before Minsk-2.
            And as already mentioned, this leads to the consequences of using large formations and air support.
            1. Ka-52
              Ka-52 19 January 2021 06: 01
              0
              in the fact that the Su-25 can, but in the fact that in 2014 Ukraine did not have guided missiles in a non-expired state and there were no pilots who would have experience in their use. As far as I know, the situation has not changed much now.

              what has it to do with it or not? We are talking about the present tense. And it is as follows (I explain it AGAIN if it is not clear): the Air Force aircraft sits on the ground, although it can fly. $ 70 million x 6 = $ 420 million for six sets of TB2 could well have been spent on training years of composition, its coherence, the purchase of fuel, AV, etc. Instead, the Turkish aircraft industry feeds with a dubious increase in combat capabilities.
              then his sighting complex (borrowed, by the way, from the Su-17M3)

              okay. Ukrainians have long since changed the S-17 to the ASP-17BC-8M1
              Yes, theoretically, with the help of Maple, you can work with the X-29.

              And what prevents the Berth from performing illumination not only for x29 (there are no targets for this monster in the Donbas), but also for x25? In principle, from experience, the application does not cause difficulties for pilots.
              but in practice this was rarely done, and in the case of modern Maidan Ukraine it was completely impossible.

              I don’t need to list the problems of the pots. Once again, I am referring to my thought: the Ukrainians, instead of reviving their age group, are investing in the Turkish aviation industry.
              I write-the format will be "there is no". You ask questions using the "ihtamnet" format as an example. All equipment is transferred unofficially,

              Yes, do not care about your games of "secrets" (which are no longer secrets). The very fact of the transfer of equipment to the Armed Forces of the republics is. We are now discussing, in principle, a fact, and not under what sauce it served.
    2. sgrabik
      sgrabik 15 January 2021 09: 03
      +5
      If the military conflict in Donbass sharply aggravates again and the Armed Forces of Ukraine go on the offensive, we will simply have to immediately declare the entire Donbass and all the adjacent regions of Ukraine a no-fly zone, the capabilities of our air defense systems allow this, then we'll see what and how we can fly and fight in the skies over the Donbass.
      1. Odysseus
        Odysseus 15 January 2021 14: 52
        -1
        Quote: sgrabik
        If the military conflict in Donbass sharply aggravates again and the Armed Forces of Ukraine go on the offensive, we will simply have to immediately declare the entire Donbass and all the adjacent regions of Ukraine a no-fly zone

        I agree with you, but there will be problems with international law, this is a territory that we ourselves recognize as Ukraine. So, legally, this can only be done through the UN.
        1. meandr51
          meandr51 15 January 2021 19: 58
          +4
          Yeah. After all, Crimea was accepted - through the UN ...
          1. Odysseus
            Odysseus 15 January 2021 20: 58
            +1
            Quote: meandr51
            Yeah. After all, Crimea was accepted - through the UN ...

            Crimea RF considers its territory, Donbass territory of Ukraine. Accordingly, if Ukraine attacks Crimea, then from the point of view of Russian legislation it will be aggression. But if Ukraine attacks Donbass, it will be an internal Ukrainian affair. There is no way to bring in troops - it will be an act of aggression.
            Therefore, the format will be there.
        2. sgrabik
          sgrabik 16 January 2021 14: 10
          +1
          There are already tens of thousands of Russian citizens in the Donbass, if necessary, we can, on the basis of this, send troops and conduct special operations. operations to force the aggressor to peace.
    3. The leader of the Redskins
      The leader of the Redskins 15 January 2021 09: 15
      +1
      This is the logic from Damantsev.
      And, in general, Damants on Friday ... One thing pleases - the weekend is ahead, but on Saturday and Sunday he doesn't seem to write ...
  9. evgen1221
    evgen1221 15 January 2021 08: 32
    -5
    So against the Black Sea Fleet and nepoprut - there the otayetka will fly with a guarantee - but against the Donbass it is possible. I can even imagine how we will chew snot.
  10. dzvero
    dzvero 15 January 2021 09: 25
    +4
    How will the attempt to use Bayraktars against the surface component of the Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Navy turn out for Kiev?

    And nothing against the Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Federation are not tenants. Of course, they will be able to drown some crew boat or shoot at the border guards, but that's it.
    Against Donbass ... will there be Bayraktars at the front in marketable quantities? According to rumors, a report is circulating at the NATO headquarters "Wrinkle and shrinkage during storage of weapons and military equipment in the warehouses of the Armed Forces of Ukraine - achievements and prospects." Especially popular with the rear and all sorts of suppliers.
    1. Rusticolus
      Rusticolus 15 January 2021 20: 42
      +3
      Amers with javelins gave the feint a ride. Why should the Turks, first, sell more UAVs to the losers, and then simply ban them from using them. Well, the mosquito armada will not float to capture Istanbul? laughing
  11. Dimide
    Dimide 15 January 2021 09: 32
    -4
    The Chinese have recently demonstrated the use of large-caliber MLRS against naval targets. How long will the anti-aircraft missile defense system of a frigate of the same "Admiral's series" last with the massive use of MLRS of the "Alder-M" type in combination with the "Neptune" anti-ship missile system?
    1. Avior
      Avior 15 January 2021 13: 17
      0
      It's not even about the ammunition
      There is a chance of defeat
      The more attackers, the more likely that at least one will pass
      1. Dimide
        Dimide 15 January 2021 13: 25
        -6
        Here I am about that.
        Template thinking does not lead to good
  12. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 15 January 2021 09: 43
    0
    Why use it against the Russian Navy? It is quite limited to apply in reconnaissance in the DPR and LPR and counter battery warfare ..... within the framework of today's half-world. This will dramatically increase the losses of the LPR and DPR without offensive actions. And we must take into account that the UAVs are equipped with thermal imaging equipment and anti-tank systems with a range of up to 10 km. They may not cross the contact line. And knock out the positions of howitzers and tanks on the front line. Right in the trenches. And, like, and no offensive.
    1. rocket757
      rocket757 15 January 2021 20: 56
      +2
      "Voentorg" will start working and those "birds" will fly with burning debris on their owners ....
      Is this option possible, or not?
      1. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 15 January 2021 21: 05
        -2
        This is the movement of large equipment across the border and people ... but there is no offensive. And without aviation and strikes on launchers, this cannot be solved. And this is another level of intervention. Again, there is no attack on the republics
        1. rocket757
          rocket757 15 January 2021 21: 29
          +1
          How it will be, if any, is difficult to predict ...
        2. Vadim237
          Vadim237 16 January 2021 22: 53
          0
          The entire airspace of Donbass is under the hood of Russian radars - in which case they will transmit target designation to the UAV where necessary.
          1. Zaurbek
            Zaurbek 16 January 2021 23: 04
            -1
            As practice shows, it will fail without fighters.
  13. dmmyak40
    dmmyak40 15 January 2021 10: 06
    +10
    I read the title, began to be tormented by vague doubts, read the first paragraph, glanced at a few paragraphs below, read "...equipped with an airborne AFAR radar with the implementation of the synthetic aperture mode and interferometric antennas for electronic intelligence". I realized that this is Damantsev. Carefully (so as not to step on the illumination and guidance radars 92Н6Е and 9С32М4) went to the comments. Standard scheme.
  14. prior
    prior 15 January 2021 11: 30
    +3
    An attempt by Kiev to use "Bayraktars" will end with the loss of Kiev.
    Well, how else can the war with Russia end for Kiev ?!
  15. Naval
    Naval 15 January 2021 12: 54
    +5

    This is what will turn out! But seriously, one Georgian living in Poti told me. In 2008, when there was a "loud bang," the people pulled out of the city, and the Russian paratroopers, without bothering to blow up, and drowned all the floating craft right in the port.
    1. Aviator_
      Aviator_ 15 January 2021 18: 12
      +5
      I was told by a Georgian living in Poti. In 2008,

      Info about the airborne forces raid in Poti, which finished off the Georgian troughs, was widely covered in the media with beautiful pictures.
  16. Dimon Dimonov_2
    Dimon Dimonov_2 15 January 2021 15: 20
    0
    Banderlog will go to Europe ... which will survive ...
  17. aliev58
    aliev58 15 January 2021 15: 28
    -3
    Let the Ukrainians twitch, then go with lowered trousers under escort to the Kolyma and Magadan, gallop across the tundra instead of bunnies!
    1. Intruder
      Intruder 15 January 2021 22: 41
      +2
      Let the Ukrainians twitch, then go with lowered trousers under escort to the Kolyma and Magadan, gallop across the tundra instead of bunnies!
      Somehow your proposal for the Ukrainian people looks like a Nazi !? :) In the Russian Federation, too, quite a few Ukrainians have Russian citizenship, you will send them under escort to the Far East !? :)))
  18. tralflot1832
    tralflot1832 15 January 2021 16: 55
    +6
    Unfortunately, they will safely fly to the "fence" and do nothing about it. The only question is that he has weapons on an external sling. I do not think that they will like the departure of our bomber in their direction, but not one. But he will not sign, it is they need.
  19. APASUS
    APASUS 15 January 2021 20: 32
    +4
    The two top-priority items in the list of tasks of Turkish multipurpose UAVs will be the implementation of optical-electronic, radio-technical and radar reconnaissance (in the latter case, we can talk about a deeply improved modification of Bayraktar, equipped with an airborne AFAR radar with the implementation of the synthetic aperture mode and interferometric radio-technical reconnaissance antennas) in the Azov-Black Sea theater of operations, as well as support for the actions of the Naval Forces of Ukraine on the coast, in the littoral zone and the waters of the Black and Azov Seas.

    Such a car will cost very serious money, but does Ukraine have them or, as always, hope to slip through for a freebie? I doubt that the Americans will give, to buy from the Turks, they do not need to breed competitors.
  20. rocket757
    rocket757 15 January 2021 20: 52
    +3
    As you know, the very successful ..... strike-reconnaissance UAV "Bayraktar TB2" ....... which brought down several key object and zone-object anti-aircraft "umbrellas" of the NKR Defense Army and the Armenian Air Defense Forces, made a real sensation

    What is known, who knows .... what was there to destroy, if there was NOTHING to destroy, in fact and in fact!
    It wasn't the bobbin, it was the pad .... as always.
  21. Intruder
    Intruder 15 January 2021 22: 39
    -10%
    Equally promptly (by emitting terminals for the exchange of tactical information with Bayraktars in the air), the RTR / RER of the Russian Aerospace Forces will also detect drones combat control points. After that, Iskander-M will strike at them.
    and in the morning right away, you can get a "black Tuesday" of the last century, a dollar for 200 ever-stable rubles !? :)
  22. Alex russia
    Alex russia 16 January 2021 00: 28
    +1
    So maybe it is not necessary to reinvent the wheel and use the experience of those countries that perfectly cope with a threat of this type, for the same neighbors of Turkey - Greece, where the Turks have stopped practically using drones to violate sea borders and are using exclusively classical aviation for this, since the vaunted Bayraktars successfully detected air defense systems and these slugs were an excellent target.
  23. Fizik M
    Fizik M 16 January 2021 01: 23
    -1
    but also for turret air defense systems of self-defense "Gibka-R" (deployed on small missile ships pr. 21631 "Buyan-M").

    BRED and ACHINEA
    1. businessv
      businessv 16 January 2021 13: 20
      +2
      Quote: Fizik M
      BRED and ACHINEA

      Can you substantiate your brave definitions regarding the interaction of low-flying anti-ship missiles and "metal cutters" on a collision course?
      1. Fizik M
        Fizik M 16 January 2021 13: 53
        -1
        Quote: businessv
        Can you substantiate your brave definitions regarding the interaction of low-flying anti-ship missiles and "metal cutters" on a collision course?

        since when did "Flexible" become a "metal cutter"?
        1. businessv
          businessv 17 January 2021 00: 27
          +1
          Quote: Fizik M
          since when did "Flexible" become a "metal cutter"?

          "Gibka" is, first of all, a target designation system that works with all short-range air defense systems; the "Buyan - M" boats are equipped with AK-630M-2 "Duet", with which the "Gibka" can also work. Questions?
          1. 2534M
            2534M 11 February 2021 10: 49
            -1
            Quote: businessv
            "Gibka" is, first of all, a target designation system that works with all short-range air defense systems; the "Buyan - M" boats are equipped with AK-630M-2 "Duet", with which the "Gibka" can also work. Questions?

            fool
            on such a crEatiFFF wassat I can only have questions from a psychiatrist lol
            I don't have them - "everything is clear anyway" lol
            1. businessv
              businessv 11 February 2021 19: 58
              0
              Quote: 2534M
              I don't have them - "everything is clear anyway"

              But in essence can you? smile If you don't know what this is about, just walk by! hi
      2. Intruder
        Intruder 16 January 2021 22: 10
        -3
        on the interaction of low-flying anti-ship missiles and "metal cutters" on a collision course
        or rather, can you open your question to another commentator, especially in the field of "counter courses" ???
  24. Voltsky
    Voltsky 16 January 2021 01: 39
    +3
    How will the attempt to use Bayraktars against the surface component of the Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Navy turn out for Kiev?

    the loss of Ukraine's statehood.
  25. Edvid
    Edvid 16 January 2021 02: 50
    +5
    Modern aircraft are universal. The shortage or temporary lag in any sector is compensated by other means. You don't have to go far. The enemy used a flock of drones ... In response, a long-range missile strike at the headquarters and control centers of the enemy. Most of the couch "experts" do not even represent the technological level of modern aircraft. For example, already twenty years ago, the accuracy of autonomous missile guidance made it possible to get into the specified window of a building ... And if it is an apartment or your own house of a military or state official giving the command to attack? ...
  26. fa2998
    fa2998 16 January 2021 07: 40
    0
    Quote: WapentakeLokki
    ... well, you are lying about aviation ... the Stukas squadrons carried out both the Angles in the Mediterranean and the Black Sea Fleet on the Black Sea ... and, by the way, both here and there the fleet had FULL EXCELLENCE ... and that ... as they drowned there and drowned in our place (the only goal on Black was less)

    You are also disingenuous. In the Atlantic, too, there were German forces - surface and submarine and German aviation was - as a kind of force. And in India nobody was hiding. We have direct orders to prevent large ships from fighting.
  27. Victor Tsenin
    Victor Tsenin 16 January 2021 08: 30
    +1
    The beatings will turn into the return of Kiev to its native fold.
  28. Camrad
    Camrad 16 January 2021 12: 29
    -2
    Quote: "After that, either the Su-35S multifunctional fighters and the MiG-31BM interceptors, or the long-range 9M82MV missiles deployed in the territory of the Republic of Crimea of ​​the S-300V4 anti-aircraft missile systems deployed in the Republic of Crimea, can be used to intercept the drones."
    It is a pity that there is nothing of the above in Crimea.
    1. Intruder
      Intruder 16 January 2021 22: 12
      -2
      It is a pity that there is nothing of the above in Crimea.
      well .. maybe it's just "passed off as wishful thinking ..." or "promising future" !? :)))
  29. Alexfly
    Alexfly 16 January 2021 12: 41
    -1
    Maybe it will be possible and practice in the destruction of drones?
  30. Stepan S
    Stepan S 16 January 2021 13: 16
    +1
    Then, target designation can be carried out by the coastal SCRC RK-360MTs "Neptune" that has entered combat duty with the final launches of the R-360 anti-ship missile system.


    The first division of Neptunes, with a successful coincidence of circumstances, will enter the DB no earlier than 2022.
  31. iturup
    iturup 16 January 2021 13: 17
    +2
    What will the attempt to use for Kiev turn into

    The surrender of Kiev and the flight of the bagmen to Canada, etc. ..)))
  32. businessv
    businessv 16 January 2021 13: 17
    +3
    Quote: fa2998
    I agree! In the last war, the Black Sea Fleet had complete superiority over the enemy.

    Do you seriously think that the fleet can butt with the best German aircraft at that time in the world? The main thing is not the number, but the skill! At the beginning of the Second World War, we did not have the ability to fight! The army was large, but for the most part incapable of combat due to the lack of combat experience in the use of modern weapons precisely in large-scale conflicts, and the corresponding tactics of battles and interaction of troops appeared much later than June 1941.
  33. Rakovor
    Rakovor 16 January 2021 13: 45
    +2
    Damn, as already zadolbali with these drones. All these Byroktar adepts are oblivious to one important fact. All cases of successful use of drones, be it the United States, Israel or Azerbaijan, took place with complete (if not absolute) air superiority. If this superiority is not there, then the use of drones becomes problematic, if not possible at all.
    Therefore, talking about some kind of threat to the Black Sea Fleet from the UAF's drones is simply ridiculous, because they will never even reach parity with us in the air.
  34. Evgeny Seleznev
    Evgeny Seleznev 16 January 2021 15: 02
    +1
    In principle, the UAV is designed to perform reconnaissance and targeting missions. The use cases are voiced. Now you can write a list of countries with UAVs and everything can be adjusted to the geopolitical and geographical conditions of the country. But this does not negate the presence and equipment of the armed forces with other nomenclature of weapons. Already in the aircraft complex, you can predict and build options.
  35. Ryaruav
    Ryaruav 16 January 2021 15: 07
    +3
    As a Russian person, the word littoral hurts me, but just write coastal weakly?
    1. Intruder
      Intruder 16 January 2021 22: 27
      -3
      as a Russian person, the word littoral hurts me
      In Romance languages ​​there is no concept: coastal, all just not all Russians live on this planet, somewhere around 50-60 million people in total, in other countries on a ball ... and this language also did not get to the second international recognition, so why be surprised !? :) "littoral" - are understandable to the majority of the world's population, who still speaks a second language (international) fluently from school .., unfortunately it is !!!
  36. Pavel57
    Pavel57 16 January 2021 23: 21
    0
    Somehow optimistic about Gibka.
  37. lopvlad
    lopvlad 17 January 2021 00: 32
    -1
    quite adequate article. Especially in light of the site's clutter with articles of the sect "Bayraktar will take over the whole world. There will be nothing ....... one continuous bayraktar"
  38. Old major
    Old major 17 January 2021 00: 41
    0
    The cost of 1 Bayraktar is about $ 10 million with absolutely non-outstanding combat characteristics. Can Bayraktar attack a border patrol boat? Yes maybe. Can you drown? Well, given that the weight of the UMTAS warhead, which this UAV is armed with, is about 4 kg and is designed to defeat a tank, it cannot. Damage only. And after that, the drone will be discovered and, given the well, completely unremarkable flight characteristics and rather large dimensions, destroyed. That is, for DAMAGE to a boat with a displacement of 400-450 tons and a price of 2-3 million dollars, the Ukrainians are ready to "exchange" their attack drone at the price of 10 million? Well, ... let them fight, why, they have enough treasury for a long time in such a war?
    I still do not take into account that the boats have their own surveillance radar, and their own MANPADS (Igla or Verba), and with a certain tactical battle scheme and competent actions of the boat captain, there is quite a rather big probability of Bayraktar's defeat.
    In general, all these modern UAV prayers cause some amazement. So far, it is clear how this rather weak and expensive weapon can be used against shepherds, field commanders of bearded men and semi-partisan formations like the "Artsakh army" that do not have any air defense. Nobody told how all this will fight in the modern large-scale conflict.
    And on the part of the Ukrainians - the hope of finding a "wunderwaffe" that will smash Russia in two days - how comical it is in Ukrainian ...
  39. AC130 Ganship
    AC130 Ganship 17 January 2021 01: 57
    0
    My daughter Annushka is good.
    They praise mother and grandmother ...
  40. Altdoch
    Altdoch 18 January 2021 20: 34
    +1
    Do not brag about the army walking, something like this
  41. nevalgen
    nevalgen 19 January 2021 10: 22
    0
    Khokhlyadiya will shrink to the Kuef and Chernigov regions ... the main thing is not to take the kuev prisoner, not to repeat the mistakes of the tsars ..
  42. Leonid Morskoy_2
    Leonid Morskoy_2 20 January 2021 16: 45
    0
    I know that everyone who wants and does evil to Russia will soon, God forbid, find out ... where the crayfish winter ... That's it, thinkers ...
  43. The comment was deleted.
  44. ua1osm
    ua1osm 21 January 2021 10: 55
    0
    Thundering with fire, sparkling with a gleam of steel,
    The cars will go on a furious campaign,
    When Comrade Stalin sends us into battle,
    And Putin Vova will lead us into battle!
    "The war will be an exceptionally little blood, a mighty blow, and on foreign territory."
    Indeed, since June 22, 1941, for Hitler, that's how it was.
    On January 1, 1942, the tally of losses was 0,25 to 5,0 million disabled soldiers.
  45. Popov I.P.
    Popov I.P. 11 February 2021 22: 27
    -1
    The reasoning of the ukrostrategi about the exceptional combat properties of the Bayraktar-type wunderwaffe and the ineffectiveness of Russian-made air defense systems are not entirely professional and somewhat naive. The most important role is played by the construction of echeloned air defense, the centralized integrated use of all air defense forces and means, and especially the training of personnel (roughly speaking, the quality of human material). There is the negative experience of Libya and Nagorno-Karabakh, but there is also the experience of Syria, where up to 70% of cruise missiles were shot down during a massive air attack from the United States and its allies, and not only UAVs, but even MLRS shells do not reach the base in Khmeimim. For 30 years Azerbaijan was preparing for war, equipping the army with new equipment and training personnel, while Armenia, in my opinion, relied on the enthusiasm of volunteers with machine guns, and its air defense in general of the last century. In Karabakh, in 30 years it was possible to rebuild the impenetrable "Maginot" line, close all directions with minefields, including controlled ones, but in fact they were too lazy to even dig trenches of a full profile. "Bayraktar" actually did not fight with an enemy equal in strength, in conditions of massive use of modern electronic warfare and air defense. Therefore, the use of "Bayraktar" by Ukraine against the Donbass militias may give some temporary effect until the so-called "Bayraktar" comes to their aid. "north wind", although the financial capabilities of Ukraine do not allow talking about a massive attack by this type of UAV. An attempt to use them against the RF Armed Forces in any direction will be initially suicidal. By the way, in the Armed Forces of Ukraine, it is with the quality of human material that there are considerable problems, despite its nationalist pumping. Remember the so-called. the heroic Kerch breakthrough, when the Ukromorians, at the first shots of the PSKR, unanimously lifted their hands up, instead of raising the pennant "I die, but I do not surrender" and open the kingstones. In general, a warship that lowered flags and fell into the hands of the enemy is considered disgraced, and the crew is not awarded orders, but judged. And I haven't read something about Ukrainian heroes like our Prokhorenko and Filippov, who died heroically in Syria, but did not surrender. Of course, we need to study and analyze all aspects of hostilities in Syria, Libya and Nagorno-Karabakh, draw appropriate conclusions from the point of view of modernization of existing and development of new equipment, methods of its combat use, as well as training of personnel, because as the popular saying goes "Smart people learn from other people's mistakes, and fools learn from their own. " And the wet dreams of the naval commander of used boats and inflatable junks Neizhpapa to win a blitzkrieg at sea with the help of the Bayraktar UAV will remain dreams.