Military Review

The scale of Stalinist repressions: myth and truth

458

One quote prompted me to search for real numbers. Strange as it may sound, but these were the words of not anyone, but the main demon of repression - Adolf Hitler.


Compliment from the enemy


In one of his interviews on the eve of the finale of his last battle with Russia, this openly hostile character noted:

“The Wehrmacht just betrayed me, I am dying at the hands of my own generals.

Stalin did a brilliant act by organizing a purge in the Red Army and getting rid of the rotten aristocracy. "

(End of April 1945. From an interview with A. Hitler, taken from him by journalist K. Speidel).

For various ideological reasons, politicians took the very topic of the scale of Stalinist repressions beyond the boundaries of good and evil.

Among other things, this issue was also expelled from the field of real public discussion also due to the myth of the cult of the individual, which was inflated to universal proportions, which was exploited in many ways, purposefully and effectively by different historical persons and clans.

For example, one of these was Nikita Sergeevich Khrushchev.


I.V. Stalin and N.S. Khrushchev. January 1936 Photo: Wikipedia

In fact, he covered his own responsibility for his personal contribution to the cause of repression with nothing more than campaigns to expose Stalin's personality cult. Blowing up the bubble about the magnitude of the Stalinist purges was a wonderful tool that worked primarily as an ideal shock therapy for the people. But in fact, all this was only a screen for strengthening Khrushchev's own power. A smokescreen to legitimize Khrushchev's methods and means of governing the country.

A little later, in the 1960s-1970s, the same tactic, with screams of gigantic repression and the cult of personality, worked against Khrushchev himself.

But in the 1980s and 1990s, the same principle was revived again. The multi-headed dragon with the theme of countless Stalinist purges was taken out of the chest again. Now in order to overthrow the Communist Party first. And then with the aim of destroying the country itself - the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

All this suggests that we have met with some kind of social technology or even with social engineering for mythologizing and constructing reality. And if so, then the question naturally arises:

"And what was the real concrete number of the repressed?"

Let's try to see at least some specific numbers behind the tinsel about the countless victims.

And, forgive me, for this, alas, quotes from world-famous opposition writers about the alleged tens of millions who were shot and executed in the USSR are not suitable. Let's not take their word for it. Let's turn to specific documentary facts.

Five hundred times lies


Here is one of the interesting archival documents, which was previously, of course, top secret (and today published in the public domain), with a long name:

“Memorandum of the Prosecutor General of the USSR R.A. Rudenko, Minister of Internal Affairs of the USSR S.N. Kruglov and the Minister of Justice of the USSR K.P. Gorshenin on the number of those convicted by the OGPU collegium, NKVD troikas, Special meeting, military collegium, courts and military tribunals for counter-revolutionary activities in 1921-1954. " // GARF. F. 94016. Op. 26. D. 4506. LL. 30-37. Certified copy.

The scale of Stalinist repressions: myth and truth
State Archives of the Russian Federation. F. 94016. Op. 26.D. 4506.L. 30-37. Certified copy. Photo: school.rusarchives.ru

This document is dated, according to archival data, on February 1, 1954.

This statement was prepared for the head of state. And it named the numbers of the repressed for a period of 32 years. Namely, from 1921 to the date of the report, in other words, on February 1, 1954.

This document was drawn up and signed by the USSR Prosecutor General Roman Andreevich Rudenko, the USSR Minister of Internal Affairs Sergey Nikiforovich Kruglov and the USSR Minister of Justice Konstantin Petrovich Gorshenin.


Postage stamp of Russia with the image of R.A. Rudenko. Photo: Wikipedia


S.N. Kruglov (1907-1977) Photo: Wikipedia


K.P. Gorshenin (1907-1978) Photo: nbchr.ru

This document testifies that the total number of convicts for 32 years was 3 people. The charges were made by the OGPU Collegium, the NKVD Troika, the Special Meeting, the Military Collegium, courts and military tribunals combined.

Of these, 32 people were sentenced to death for all 642 years. 980 people were sentenced to detention in camps and prisons for a term of 2 years or less. And 369 220 people - to exile and deportation.

The numbers are great. Agree.

But they contain data for more than 3 decades. It was an extremely difficult and contradictory period in the life of our country.

These numbers include revolutionaries, Leninists and Trotskyists, as well as other destroyers of the Russian Empire, who smashed the great country to please the West. The victims of the Civil War were also included here. And all the traitors who served Hitler during the Great Patriotic War.

Of course, among them were outright bandits, Bandera, deserters and even terrorists.

Let's repeat. The main figure from this document is that 32 642 people were sentenced to death for all 980 years.

A giant figure. But these are far from the "tens of millions of those shot" that are so persistently trumpeted to us from the West, is it not?

The difference between ten million and almost 643 thousand is an exaggeration of at least 15 and a half times.

The people need to know the historical truth. Even though she is harsh.

So, let's calculate how much this was on average for the year. If we divide the total number of those executed by all the reporting 32 years, it turns out that an average of 20 were sentenced to death per year.

If this number is compared with the opposition version of "tens of millions of those executed", then this is an exaggeration of almost 500 times (497,7). That is, they lie to us on a XNUMX-fold scale. And we must write about it.

To remember the truth. A historically recorded fact: on average, a little more than 20 thousand people received a death sentence per year. It's cruel. But it is this figure that you should know. This is as important as pure documentary truth.

But all the songs of the West and Westerners about tens of millions of those executed in the USSR are a lie. Impudent and impudent.

And 17 executed commanders


In 1986, the Ogonyok magazine, closed today, first published figures on the repressed commanders (1986, No. 26).

Today it turned out that the values ​​printed in this magazine (and immediately reprinted by many media outlets) values ​​of 40 allegedly killed Russian officers, and even in just a little over 000 years (from May 2 to September 1937) are also exaggerated.

Well, let's imagine how this could be printed?

That's how.

There was such a document "Report on the work of the department" for 1939, compiled by the head of the Main Directorate of Personnel of the People's Commissariat of Defense, Lieutenant General Efim Afanasyevich Shchadenko.


E.A. Shchadenko is the chief personnel officer of the Red Army. Photo: maxpark.com

On May 5, 1940, this paper was put on I.V. Stalin. (The text of the document "From the report of the head of the Department for the commanding staff of the Red Army of the USSR People's Commissariat of Defense E. A. Shchadenko dated May 5, 1940" was published in the journal "Izvestia of the Central Committee of the CPSU" in No. 1 for 1990, pp. 186-192. Link).

So, it was in this very paper that this figure was. Which was cynically taken out of context and then waved like a red banner.

But back to the above document.

It said that in the period from 1937 to 1939 from the ranks of the Red Army 36 (that is, almost the same "advertised" 898) commanders were dismissed.

Once again, I would like to draw your attention to the fact that so many were fired. And not at all shot or killed.

Looking ahead, we note that the executed officers were also among the dismissed. But only 17 people. By the way, in percentage terms, this is only 0,05% of all dismissed commanders (36) during this period.

But first, let's get back to the numbers about the dismissed. Here's how the statistics of those expelled from service looked by years:

1937 year. In total, 18 658 commanders were dismissed (13,1% of the total).


Table for 1937. Photo: Izvestia of the Central Committee of the CPSU 1990, No. 1, pp. 186-192

The year is 1938. In total, 16 362 officers (9,2%) were dismissed.


Table for 1938. Photo: Izvestia of the Central Committee of the CPSU 1990, No. 1, pp. 186-192

1939 year. In total, 1 military leaders (878%) were dismissed.


Table for 1939. Photo: Izvestia of the Central Committee of the CPSU 1990, No. 1, pp. 186-192

The reasons for dismissal were indicated as follows:

- according to the age;
- for health;
- for disciplinary offenses;
- for moral instability;
- for political reasons.

Of the total number of all dismissed officers (36), 898 were “removed” from their offices for political reasons. That is, there were many political dismissals - 19%.

At the same time, in the published document, the compiler also openly states that most of these dismissals were incorrect:

“In the total number of those dismissed both in 1936–37 and in 1938–39. a large number were arrested and dismissed unfairly. Therefore, there were many complaints to the People's Commissariat of Defense, to the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks and to Comrade Stalin.

I (E.A. Shchadenko) in August 1938 created a special commission to analyze the complaints of the dismissed commanders, which carefully checked the materials of the dismissed by calling them personally, leaving the employees of the Directorate to their places, requests from Party organizations, individual communists and commanders who knew the dismissed, through organs of the NKVD, etc.

The commission considered about 30 thousand complaints, petitions and applications ”.

Therefore, in 1938-1939, out of the above 19 106 “political” officers (thanks to the submitted petitions and complaints, as well as during the initiated inspections), 9 247 officers were reinstated in their rights. In percentage terms, this is 48,4% or almost half. And this is very important.

Since for political reasons, at first almost 50% were dismissed, but then almost half of them (25%) were reinstated.

Thus, of all those dismissed for political reasons and not reinstated, only 25% or only a quarter remain. That 40 thousand people are far from being initially discussed, you must agree.

And now the most important thing.

In the literal sense, it was repressed or specifically arrested, according to this released document, of all the dismissed military leaders - 9 people. This is 579% (from 25 36).

At the same time, it is documented that at the same time, in 1938-1939, of these arrested officers, 1 (or 457% of 15) were reinstated.

And the saddest thing.

Of all the arrested commanders, only 70 officers were sentenced to death.
And only 17 were shot.

As a rule, these were the most senior. Out of five marshals - 2. This is Tukhachevsky, as the organizer of the Trotskyist military conspiracy. And Yegorov, who was accused of being counter-revolutionary as a participant in espionage, as well as for preparing terrorist attacks.

Marshal Blucher was arrested with the wording as a participant in a military-fascist conspiracy, which resulted in unjustified losses and the deliberate failure of the operation on Lake Hasan. He died in prison.

Five more of the nine commanders of the 1st rank (Belov, Uborevich, Fedko, Frinovsky, Yakir) were shot for similar especially dangerous crimes.

conclusions


As a result, it should be recognized that the documented fact that from 1921 to 1954, 642 980 people were sentenced to death (in a third of a century) (an average of about 20 000 annually). In comparison with the mythical opponents declared "tens of millions of people shot in the USSR" - this is at least five hundred-fold exaggeration.

In addition, in 1937-1939. arrested 8122 officers (without the Air Force and fleet). According to the official published data, in 1939 the total number of commanders was 3%.

Let us remember that only 70 officers were sentenced to be shot.

And only 17 commanders were shot from those sentenced in the end.

Now appreciate the screams of the West and the opposition about 40 military leaders who were allegedly shot by Stalin in a couple of years. What is this, no matter how blatant lie? And undue exaggeration of facts by more than two thousand (000) times?

In fact, everything that we are discussing today is a tragedy.

But its scale is mythologized and literally turns into fantasies far from the truth. The facts indicate that the executed 17 people from the officers dismissed in 1937-1939 are 0,05% of those 40 who were removed from office during the specified period.

So who, one wonders, benefits from such an astronomical and almost a thousand-fold exaggeration of real numbers and documented texture today?

Exorbitant myth-making is uniquely beneficial only to those who are not satisfied with either the historical truth or Russia itself: the West and the liberal opposition.

But the common Russian people should know, remember, preserve and repeat this harsh truth about the history of our Motherland.

For the sake of great ancestors and in the name of our descendants.
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  1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
    Andrei from Chelyabinsk 14 January 2021 18: 07
    +50
    Excellent work. Thank you! The figures I have collected on the repression are not at hand (I have been doing this for a long time), but the order of the numbers is approximately the same hi
    1. nnm
      nnm 14 January 2021 18: 17
      -2
      Modern historians all voice the figure within 700 thousand people.
      Of course, we are not talking about Western "scientists" and the like.
      1. A1845
        A1845 14 January 2021 18: 34
        +29
        Quote: nnm
        Modern historians all voice the figure within 700 thousand people.

        of this number, a significant part on the conscience of N.S. who was the first and fanned the hysteria about mass repression
        1. Doctor
          Doctor 14 January 2021 19: 12
          -25%
          of this number, a significant part on the conscience of N.S. who was the first and fanned the hysteria about mass repression

          Mass character is a loose concept.
          642 980 people is this a lot or a little? It depends with whom to compare.
          You can, for example, from the USA.



          Around the same time period (from 1900 to 1972), the states executed less than 8 (eight thousand, Karl!) people.

          And lists in general all everyone can watch the executed.

          https://files.deathpenaltyinfo.org/legacy/documents/ESPYyear.pdf
          1. Dart2027
            Dart2027 14 January 2021 19: 28
            +33
            Quote: Arzt
            During about the same time period (from 1900 to 1972), fewer than 8 were executed in the states.

            And that there was a civil war in the United States and several years of hostilities during WWII?
            1. Doctor
              Doctor 14 January 2021 19: 33
              -28%
              And that there was a civil war in the United States and several years of hostilities during WWII?

              We compare court death sentences. What does war have to do with it?

              Or do you want to compare the death toll in Russia (USSR) and the United States in civil wars and World War II?
              Well take a chance ... wink
              1. Dart2027
                Dart2027 14 January 2021 19: 50
                +39
                Quote: Arzt
                We compare court death sentences. What does war have to do with it?

                Probably despite the fact that we are talking about those convicted for political reasons.
                First, when there is a coup d'etat, the struggle between the winners is common.
                Secondly, after the GW there were many of those who were far from delighted with the new government. I am not a fan of communism, but it is foolish to condemn the authorities that they sought to fight those who fought against them.
                Thirdly, during the Second World War, many went to serve the Germans, which is also more than a sufficient reason for imprisonment or execution.
                1. Cherry Nine
                  Cherry Nine 15 January 2021 08: 09
                  -21%
                  Quote: Dart2027
                  First, when there is a coup d'etat, the struggle between the winners is common.

                  )))
                  And nobody was shot! And rightly shot! And few were shot!
                  Quote: Dart2027
                  Secondly, after the GW there were many of those who were far from enthusiastic about the new government.

                  )))
                  And nobody was shot! And rightly shot! And few were shot!
                  Quote: Dart2027
                  Thirdly, during the Second World War, many went to serve the Germans, which is also more than a sufficient reason for imprisonment or execution.

                  )))
                  And nobody was shot! And rightly shot! And few were shot!
                  1. Dart2027
                    Dart2027 15 January 2021 18: 51
                    +8
                    Quote: Cherry Nine
                    )))
                    And nobody was shot! And rightly shot! And few were shot!

                    And in Russian?
                    1. Vladimir Mashkov
                      Vladimir Mashkov 17 January 2021 16: 15
                      +3
                      Wonderful work of an honest and objective historian! Although I have already seen these figures somewhere, thank you very much Irina Frolova for reminding you of the TRUTH! good good good
                  2. Pilat2009
                    Pilat2009 20 January 2021 15: 26
                    0
                    Quote: Cherry Nine
                    Quote: Dart2027
                    First, when there is a coup d'etat, the struggle between the winners is common.

                    )))
                    And nobody was shot! And rightly shot! And few were shot!
                    Quote: Dart2027
                    Secondly, after the GW there were many of those who were far from enthusiastic about the new government.

                    )))
                    And nobody was shot! And rightly shot! And few were shot!
                    Quote: Dart2027
                    Thirdly, during the Second World War, many went to serve the Germans, which is also more than a sufficient reason for imprisonment or execution.

                    )))
                    And nobody was shot! And rightly shot! And few were shot!

                    In short, shoot all the dissatisfied.
              2. Mountain shooter
                Mountain shooter 15 January 2021 01: 33
                +13
                Quote: Arzt
                We compare court death sentences. What does war have to do with it?

                Add dates above 30 years there ...
                And what about wars? And during the war and after the executions of traitors, spies, saboteurs, Vlasovites took place ... And how many? How many of those 600-odd thousand?
                And how many Japanese people were sent to the camps? Without any guilt or judgment?
                And how many of them died in these camps?
                And how many US citizens died during the Great Depression? This data is still classified.
                However, the numbers are monstrous. Some researchers give a figure of 4 million.
                Against 670 thousand in 32 years!
                Here, either panties, or a cross ...
                1. Doctor
                  Doctor 15 January 2021 04: 03
                  -23%
                  Add dates above 30 years there ...
                  And what about wars? And during the war and after the executions of traitors, spies, saboteurs, Vlasovites took place ... And how many? How many of those 600-odd thousand?
                  And how many Japanese people were sent to the camps? Without any guilt or judgment?
                  And how many of them died in these camps?
                  And how many US citizens died during the Great Depression? This data is still classified.
                  However, the numbers are monstrous. Some researchers give a figure of 4 million.
                  Against 670 thousand in 32 years!
                  Here, either panties, or a cross ...

                  Horses mixed in a bunch, people ....
                  You still count the deaths from the earthquakes in California and the tsunami in Honshu. wassat

                  Well, it's better not to stutter at all about the executions of YOUR soldiers and officers during the Second World War.
                  Here are some well-known statistics:



                  And these are only tribunals, without taking into account the work of the courts of general jurisdiction, a special meeting at the NKVD and extrajudicial executions by SMERSH bodies, detachments and just in front of the line.

                  15 divisions were killed at the hands of "friendly"! No.
                  1. Cherry Nine
                    Cherry Nine 15 January 2021 08: 34
                    -6
                    Quote: Arzt
                    15 divisions were killed at the hands of "friendly"!

                    By the way, these people are also included in the notorious 27 million, which are usually presented as the contribution of the USSR to the victory in WWII.
                  2. Mordvin 3
                    Mordvin 3 15 January 2021 17: 23
                    +11
                    Quote: Arzt
                    15 divisions were killed at the hands of "friendly"!

                    My grandfather was in the penal battalion. Somehow he didn't die .... And after he was wounded, they sent him to the mine, where he received so much that the grandmother did not work.
                  3. Mountain shooter
                    Mountain shooter 15 January 2021 17: 44
                    +7
                    Germany 7.8 thousand? Who was there who kept records, when in the spring of 45 they shot the dither, trying to maintain discipline? Doubtful numbers. As well as 150 thousand executed.
                    Order 227 was in 42. After Stalingrad, all these shootings became not so active at all ... And what, during this most difficult year, the whole army was shot? Especially if there weren't even tribunals, where does the figure come from?
                    1. Doctor
                      Doctor 15 January 2021 19: 15
                      +1
                      Especially if there weren't even tribunals, where does the figure come from?


                      For the first time in the 8th issue of the magazine "State and Law" in 1995, Colonel-General of Justice A. Muranov published an article "Activities of the military justice authorities during the Great Patriotic War."
                    2. Doctor
                      Doctor 15 January 2021 19: 19
                      -3
                      Order 227 was in 42. After Stalingrad, all these shootings became not so active at all ...

                      Tribunal sentences by year:

                      in 41st - 216,
                      in 42st - 685,
                      in 43st - 727,
                      in 44st - 543,
                      and in the 45th - 357 people.
                      1. Mountain shooter
                        Mountain shooter 15 January 2021 19: 30
                        +10
                        Quote: Arzt
                        in 41st - 216,
                        in 42st - 685,
                        in 43st - 727,
                        in 44st - 543,
                        and in the 45th - 357 people

                        Do you really believe in these numbers? More than 2 million people shot? Considering that the losses of the RED ARMY during the hostilities, according to documents (killed, missing and died from wounds) amounted to around 8 million for all years ... The rest of the losses are civilians, extermination by the Nazis by all means ...
                        The executed soldiers of the red army - every fourth ???
                        This is just as reliable a figure as 10 million were shot in Stalin's repressions. Turned into 700 thousand in 32 years.
                        I myself read at the end of 80 in countless Lights about countless victims ... The authors simply competed - who is more!
                      2. Doctor
                        Doctor 15 January 2021 19: 32
                        -1
                        Do you really believe in these numbers? More than 2 million people shot?

                        No, these are the sentences of everything.
                        During the war years, the tribunals have convicted 2 people.

                        Of these, 284 were sentenced to death.

                        Of these, 157 were shot.
                      3. Mountain shooter
                        Mountain shooter 15 January 2021 19: 34
                        +4
                        Quote: Arzt

                        Of these, 157 593 were shot

                        The figures are still understandable. I'll climb to watch ...
                      4. Doctor
                        Doctor 15 January 2021 19: 37
                        -6
                        The figures are still understandable. I'll climb to watch ...

                        I understand, I can't believe it. wink
                        How is it that we shot 150 thousand workers and peasants, and the evil British capitalists 40.
                        FORTY PEOPLE!
                        And then we wonder why everyone in London is bursting! laughing
                      5. Mountain shooter
                        Mountain shooter 15 January 2021 20: 00
                        +2
                        Non-combat losses: died from disease, died as a result of accidents, sentenced to execution (according to reports from troops, medical institutions, military tribunals) 555,5 541,9 7,1 6,5

                        Here is the official figure from the MO archive
                        The first is general. Further on the ground forces, border guards and internal troops ...
                        Have you shot a third? And in 4 years, how many accidents, incidents, illnesses were there?
                        During the 4 years of the war? I have no other reliable data.
                      6. Doctor
                        Doctor 15 January 2021 20: 23
                        -5
                        I have no other reliable data.

                        So the Colonel General of Justice wrote. Who else should know?
                      7. Mountain shooter
                        Mountain shooter 15 January 2021 20: 45
                        +9
                        Quote: Arzt
                        So the Colonel General of Justice wrote. Who else should know?

                        At 95 he wrote? All figures from 86 to 2000 must be checked and rechecked ... No colonel-generals. Archives only. Too many lies, from a variety of "non-profit" sources ...
                  4. Mountain shooter
                    Mountain shooter 15 January 2021 20: 03
                    +5
                    Quote: Arzt
                    And then we wonder why everyone is bursting in London!

                    All right? By all accounts? laughing specifically to London?
                  5. Doctor
                    Doctor 15 January 2021 20: 16
                    -1
                    All right? By all accounts? laughing specifically to London?

                    I'm exaggerating, of course. Not all. Those who have enough money. laughing
                  6. faiver
                    faiver 16 January 2021 18: 33
                    +1
                    Those who have enough money.
                    - maybe those who stole this money from someone? bully
                  7. Doctor
                    Doctor 16 January 2021 18: 41
                    -1
                    - maybe those who stole this money from someone?

                    Mostly they are. laughing
                    But that is not the question. And why Berezovsky and Abramovich preferred to sort out their money affairs in London, and not in Moscow.
                    Maybe because the last death penalty took place there in 1964? wink
                  8. faiver
                    faiver 16 January 2021 18: 45
                    +1
                    so you can become an enemy of United Russia very quickly when you have a lot of money bully
  2. clerk
    clerk 20 January 2021 03: 27
    0
    These are sentences, not corpses. Krivosheev cites data that during the Great Patriotic War, 135 thousand servicemen were shot by sentences. Of the 34,6 million served. I wonder how many of the 681 sentenced to death were actually shot according to Rudenko's certificate? Judging by the graves found (Butovo landfills, communal apartments, etc.) - 150-200 thousand from the force for the whole country. It is a pity that the author did not work out this question, limiting herself to chewing on the old gum.
  3. DrEng527
    DrEng527 20 January 2021 12: 54
    0
    Quote: clerk
    It is a pity that the author did not work out this question, limiting herself to chewing on the old gum.
    I recommend https://www.politpros.com/journal/read/?ID=783
    and this author has doubts that 681t was shot - no ...
  4. clerk
    clerk 20 January 2021 13: 40
    0
    Historian Zemskov worked with historical documents and did not consider the issue of the reliability of official reporting in principle. Therefore, your reference to his authority is incorrect. But when you start comparing the data of documents with information about actual burials, the ears of terrible postscripts immediately pop up (according to the Voronezh NKVD administration (by the way, "serving" 4 or 5 current regions), the difference between documents and found remains (and they dug for 10 years) is 5 times more I strongly suspect that in other regions as well. Of course, the FSB will be against that the NKVD will be accused of postscripting about 1937 thousand "dead souls" (the honor of the uniform and all that), but it is desirable to know the truth.
  5. DrEng527
    DrEng527 20 January 2021 14: 00
    0
    Quote: clerk
    and did not consider the issue of reliability of official reporting in principle.

    and this can be assessed in principle? bully
  6. clerk
    clerk 20 January 2021 14: 25
    0
    I gave an assessment of one NKVD department. I believe that it is not difficult to do a similar thing in other regions where excavations have taken place. It is another matter that neither the FSB (the honor of the uniform) nor the memorial liberda are interested in this (they feed on these dead).
  7. DrEng527
    DrEng527 20 January 2021 14: 40
    +1
    Quote: clerk
    I brought evaluation of one NKVD department

    I have highlighted the key word ... request The very idea of ​​falsifying executions is curious for its stupidity - it was necessary to write a bunch of pieces of paper, right down to protocols and lists of ammunition records - why this hassle? And what to do with those who were allegedly shot? To the GULAG? On what grounds - they are not! bully
    Or did they shoot invented characters? Well this is how much fantasy is needed and WHY?
  8. clerk
    clerk 20 January 2021 17: 01
    0
    Then, Moscow was releasing the Plan for the repression of "enemies of the people" more and more and for failure to fulfill it could be severely punished. And it is much easier and faster to put a case and a death sentence on a "dead soul" than to put a living person in jail. It is not for nothing that in 1937-38 the ratio of planted to shot was the smallest in 30 years. Or do you think that subscripts are only in the economy?
  9. DrEng527
    DrEng527 20 January 2021 17: 08
    0
    Quote: clerk
    Or do you think that subscripts are only in the economy?

    I think you can think of anything in hindsight ... request
    Quote: clerk
    And it is much easier and faster to put a case and a death sentence on a "dead soul" than to put a living person in jail

    nonsense - you need to come up with a name, address, biography! I note that the level of education of the NKVD investigators was not very good! And so you take a denunciation and knock out a confession on others with a stick, this for approval under execution and in a circle ... Well, do not forget about the property ...
  10. clerk
    clerk 20 January 2021 21: 25
    0
    As far as I saw rehab files on the internet, the address was often limited to the locality. The biography was also not particularly checked. And knocking out with a stick is still more difficult than composing from a bulldozer. There was not much property then - the crowns were not pulled out. Therefore, it seems nonsense only at first glance, in real life, nothing prevented such postscripts in the excitement of 1937-38
  11. Taga
    Taga 21 January 2021 17: 14
    0
    There was a number in the "plans" more who could not be repressed! And there, for example, at least 10 people in the camps, instead of those indicated, as you say, there are 1000 in the plans.
  12. clerk
    clerk 21 January 2021 19: 30
    0
    Well, you know how "no more" plans are fulfilled - to the eyeballs
  13. Svlad
    Svlad 21 January 2021 05: 52
    -4
    Strange lady is the author of the article. I said I divided it up here and I think 21000 killed a year is not enough. So this is a whole city. She has problems with her head
  • Serg koma
    Serg koma 15 January 2021 20: 05
    +7
    Quote: Arzt
    And these are only tribunals

    Another "bookkeeper" who does not know how to read meaningfully -
    “Memorandum of the Prosecutor General of the USSR R.A. Rudenko, Minister of Internal Affairs of the USSR S.N. Kruglov and the Minister of Justice of the USSR K.P. Gorshenin on the number of those convicted by the OGPU collegium, NKVD troikas, Special meeting, military collegium, courts and military tribunals for counter-revolutionary activities in 1921-1954. " // GARF. F. 94016. Op. 26. D. 4506. LL. 30-37.

    I buried 15 divisions, but I haven't dug the Black Sea yet ???
    “The significant increase in the number of people convicted of treason in November and December is due to the fact that during these months the military prosecutor's office and the tribunal began to widely practice in absentia condemnation of traitors who went over to the enemy in the past months. traitors are revealed who passed to the fascists earlier, during the retreat of our units, and hid in the territory temporarily occupied by the enemy .......
    February 8, 1942 USSR Prosecutor V. Bochkov report to Stalin
    1. Doctor
      Doctor 15 January 2021 22: 09
      +1
      “Memorandum of the Prosecutor General of the USSR R.A. Rudenko, Minister of Internal Affairs of the USSR S.N. Kruglov and the Minister of Justice of the USSR K.P. Gorshenin on the number of those convicted by the OGPU collegium, NKVD troikas, Special meeting, military collegium, courts and military tribunals for counterrevolutionary activities in 1921-1954. " // GARF. F. 94016. Op. 26. D. 4506. LL. 30-37.

      This is not the right steppe. Report to Khrushchev from 1921 to 1954. There were generally 3 convicted.
      We are talking about the period of the Second World War.

      Another "bookkeeper" who does not know how to read meaningfully -
      wink
      1. Serg koma
        Serg koma 16 January 2021 06: 54
        0
        Quote: Arzt
        Another "bookkeeper" who does not know how to read meaningfully -

        Quote: Arzt
        And these are only tribunals

        Quote: Arzt
        We are talking about the period of the Second World War.

        military tribunals (incl.) from 1921 to 1954 - you also DO NOT know how to count)))
        Quote: Arzt
        15 divisions were killed at the hands of "friendly"!

        Next time, please refer to - “During the Great Patriotic War, 954 Soviet servicemen were shot by their on charges of cowardice and for various misconduct "(Interfax, May 4, 2005, President of the International Fund" Democracy "Academician L. Yakovlev), there will be more divisions wassat
        About the executed "yours" at the hands of "their own", for the period from June 22 to December 31, 1941 - February 8, 1942 USSR Prosecutor V. Bochkov report to Stalin. If this is not enough, read - “Activities of the Military Tribunals during the Great Patriotic War. 1941-1945 "
      2. Doctor
        Doctor 16 January 2021 11: 32
        -2
        About the shot "your" at the hands of "their"

        Pavlov and the headquarters were shot, is he his own or not?
      3. Serg koma
        Serg koma 17 January 2021 18: 59
        +2
        Quote: Arzt
        Pavlov and the headquarters were shot, is he his own or not?

        In 1941, personally, I would add Kulik, Tymoshenko and many others ...
        ".........
        I am always ready, by order of the Workers 'and Peasants' Government, to come out in defense of my Homeland - the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics and, as a soldier of the Workers 'and Peasants' Red Army, I swear to defend it courageously, skillfully, with dignity and honor, not sparing my blood and life itself for achieve complete victory over enemies.
        If, by malicious intent, I violate this solemn oath of mine, then let the severe punishment of Soviet law, universal hatred and contempt of the working people befall me.". - from the text of the 1939 Military Oath.
        Have more questions?
      4. Doctor
        Doctor 17 January 2021 22: 08
        -2
        Have more questions?

        There are a lot of questions.
        by malice

        Pavlov and Company passed the front as a specialist?
        And his neighbor Kuznetsov? Why wasn't he shot then? BF commander Tributs?
        Kulik, Tymoshenko, yeah. Have you forgotten anyone? Chief Planner - Chief of General Staff, for example. wink

        Anyway, everyone else too. They are no better.
        Which is what the Germans wanted. wink
  • Plastmaster
    Plastmaster 16 January 2021 06: 46
    +1
    Here, I did not understand the meaning. This is good or bad.
    Quote: Arzt
    15 divisions were killed at the hands of "friendly"!

    If everything is bad, then you need to live somewhere in Luxembourg. A giant state that won the war. And many, many more times he will win. And no one will be sentenced to the tower. Whom? (by number) and for what? (fuck the frost who will beat them all). German, Soviet, Negro, Islamist. Pump up. And to top it off, a retelling. Our ex. Rest in greece. Greek, old, gray-haired. He finds out that they are of the type from the USSR. They talk. The result .... The Greek points to the sky flag. Only you (this is taking into account that our already former, now eEuropean) can cope with them. Of course it's nice to hear that, but when will we cope ... Will they help us a lot? and will remember ...? Europeans and eEuropeans.
    1. Doctor
      Doctor 16 January 2021 11: 07
      +1
      If everything is bad, then you need to live somewhere in Luxembourg. A giant state that won the war. And many, many more times he will win. And no one will be sentenced to the tower.

      The USA is also not a small state. We also won the Second World War.
      But at the same time, 147 (one hundred forty-seven!) Of their soldiers were executed. Mostly for military crimes such as looting.

      And for desertion - ONE. He went down in history.
      Edward Donald Slovik.



      They say that until the end of his life Eisnhower regretted that he had signed his death warrant.

      But of course this is not our way of waging wars. Since the time of the Mongols. wink
      1. Plastmaster
        Plastmaster 16 January 2021 14: 26
        +1
        [quote = Arzt]
        The USA is also not a small state. We also won the Second World War. [/ Quote]
        [quote = Arzt]
        Well, yes, it won and made a significant contribution. And probably because they fought not in one. At first. Secondly, remember France, how they gave themselves up. Like historical heritage, culture, etc. no need to destroy everything, etc. If there were no tough measures, we would have lost the war. As well as all those years would have lost ... Type of socialism. Under which people lived better. And you can read the memoirs of those who fled after the revolution. And they really did dirty tricks, cook and make poop. And I think it was necessary to really respond harder to all these insinuations. How much time and effort was spent on the birth and restoration of the economy, defense capability .... A strong state must be strong, to everyone.
  • TANKISTONE
    TANKISTONE 20 January 2021 18: 24
    0
    From kel tsiferki, Karl?
  • Taga
    Taga 21 January 2021 16: 58
    +1
    What distinguishes the work of the author of the article is the attached photos of documents! What sources is your infographic based on?
  • Cherry Nine
    Cherry Nine 15 January 2021 08: 32
    +3
    Quote: Mountain Shooter
    Add dates above 30 years there ...

    First, look for the American 58th.
    Quote: Mountain Shooter
    And during the war and after the executions of traitors, spies, saboteurs, Vlasovites took place ... And how many? How many of those 600-odd thousand?

    37 people from 028 to 1942 inclusive (Zemskov). This author takes not only "counter-revolutionary" but also "other especially dangerous state crimes", for example, Article 1946 of the Criminal Code of the RSFSR "especially dangerous banditry", so that the total number of those executed is higher, 59 thousand. So the war and post-war years account for about 799% of the total.
    Quote: Mountain Shooter
    And how many Japanese people were sent to the camps? Without any guilt or judgment?

    About 70 thousand American citizens, about 50 thousand immigrants of Japanese origin. The US government apologized for this incident and paid compensation to the victims, albeit, unfortunately, only in 88-89.
    Quote: Mountain Shooter
    And how many of them died in these camps?

    1 862 rights
    1,862 deaths across the ten camps, with cancer, heart disease, tuberculosis, and vascular disease accounting for the majority

    Quote: Mountain Shooter
    And how many US citizens died during the Great Depression? ... Some researchers give a figure of 4 million.

    They give little, about 10 million Americans have died in 14 years. Naturally, if not for the Great Depression, they would have been immortal elves.
    1. Dart2027
      Dart2027 15 January 2021 18: 53
      +3
      Quote: Cherry Nine
      for example, article 59 of the Criminal Code of the RSFSR "especially dangerous banditry",

      And that the bandits are politics?
      1. Cherry Nine
        Cherry Nine 15 January 2021 19: 14
        -6
        Hard to tell. In general, the notorious black cat in Soviet Russia, of course, was there. On the other hand, Zemskov justifies his approach by the fact that, for example, the Basmachi were shot at banditry. And Basmachi is a national liberation movement.

        Little of,

        I led to shoot bandit.
        She did not ask for mercy.
        She looked proudly and angrily.
        She bit a handkerchief from pain.

        Then she said: “Listen, lad,
        Anyway, I’ll perish from a bullet.
        Give before you clap
        Let me have a look at Ukraine
        .
        1. Dart2027
          Dart2027 15 January 2021 19: 49
          +7
          Quote: Cherry Nine
          And Basmachi is a national liberation movement.

          That is, you should have stroked them on the head? YES and who they were in reality, not propaganda is a big question.
          Quote: Cherry Nine
          I led to shoot the bandit.
          She did not ask for mercy.

          Seriously? It’s better not to remember about the fighters for independence. Very good examples at hand.
        2. Cherry Nine
          Cherry Nine 16 January 2021 01: 50
          -7
          You can treat them all as you like, but in their countries - both in Ukraine (which the Russian TV viewer is well aware of) and in Central Asia (which the Russian TV viewer knows nothing about), these people are considered national liberation movements. Consequently, the repression against them is political.
        3. Dart2027
          Dart2027 16 January 2021 06: 27
          +3
          Quote: Cherry Nine
          these people are considered national liberation movements

          And so they come to power through a coup d'état organized by the US intelligence services?
        4. Cherry Nine
          Cherry Nine 16 January 2021 12: 42
          -5
          Quote: Dart2027
          coup d'état organized by the US intelligence services?

          Well, why can't the US intelligence services be useful for once? Not all of them should drink and promote the social equivalence of homosexuality. A neo-Nazi coup will be arranged somewhere, purely for fun, why not?
        5. Plastmaster
          Plastmaster 18 January 2021 19: 48
          0
          Quote: Dart2027
          Quote: Cherry Nine
          these people are considered national liberation movements

          And so they come to power through a coup d'état organized by the US intelligence services?

          And this is our joint. We ourselves give it to come, sell, profit.
      2. BMP-2
        BMP-2 16 January 2021 07: 10
        +3
        these people are considered national liberation movements
        - And how many people in Ukraine think so? Did you personally do the count or refer to some general of justice of Ukraine :?)
      3. Cherry Nine
        Cherry Nine 16 January 2021 12: 48
        0
        Quote: BMP-2
        - And how many people in Ukraine think so?

        Not so much
        “I think that all the people who defended the independence of Ukraine, her sons, are really its heroes. We have only one step from hero to enemy. You understand the attitude to the history of Stepan Bandera (in the east of the country - ed.). There is no unambiguity. It seems to me, there is no need to provoke the Ukrainian society and answer the questions that time should answer, "Zelensky said in a commentary to the Ukrainska Pravda publication when asked whether he considers Bandera a hero.

        Mr. Zelensky and Mr. Bandera are obviously different kinds of people, so Mr. Zelensky’s voters would be subscribed from the Banderaites.
    2. Plastmaster
      Plastmaster 18 January 2021 19: 46
      0
      Quote: Cherry Nine
      Consequently, the repression against them is political.

      Not well along this route, everyone who speaks out loudly can be considered political. And to write them down to the account of the riot police too? Even if you didn't run to the stall for a supplement?
    3. TANKISTONE
      TANKISTONE 20 January 2021 18: 37
      0
      Who are considered? Have you talked with every citizen of the Ukraine and Central Asia listed by you? Tady, they forgot to mention Russia, in which, judging from the comments, there are also admirers of national liberation "engines" ...
  • Illanatol
    Illanatol 16 January 2021 08: 27
    +6

    And Basmachi is a national liberation movement.


    Like Basayev and Raduev, for example. Also famous "fighters for freedom and national self-determination."
    By the way, the Basmachis often came from behind the cordon. From the territory of Afghanistan, for example. And their goals (or rather, their curators) were larger. They dreamed of their "Islamic state" up to and including the Volga region.
  • Cherry Nine
    Cherry Nine 16 January 2021 13: 06
    +1
    Quote: Illanatol
    Like Basayev and Raduev, for example. Also famous "fighters for freedom and national self-determination."

    Yes, but there is one small difference between Mr. Basayev and Mr. Raduev on the one hand, and Mr. Bandera and Ibiagim-bek on the other hand. It consists in the fact that (today) the case of the former has lost, and the case of the latter has won. Actually, the difference between heroes and villains usually goes along this line.
  • Illanatol
    Illanatol 16 January 2021 14: 01
    0
    Do not count your chickens before they are hatched. Who said that autumn has already come?
    Is it possible that the "Great Caliphate" has already been built in Central Asia on the principles of Islamic fundamentalism or Pan-Turkism?
    "And the men don't even know ..."
    Or is it that secularism, the reliance on technology, and not on religious fanaticism, have not gone anywhere?
    Yes, there was a period when the Russians were called invaders there. And now they do not mind signing agreements with us, organizing the CSTO and the SCO and other "Eurasian unions".
    Apparently, they sipped a bitter water in an autonomous voyage, again attracted to the "older brothers".
    And they understood what to expect from overseas partners with their tough pragmatism and national egoism. They say it is true that everything is cognized by comparison ...
  • Cherry Nine
    Cherry Nine 16 January 2021 14: 25
    +4
    Quote: Illanatol
    Who said that autumn has already come?

    I am not ready to accept the hypothesis that the reunification of the Russian Federation and the countries of Central Asia into the new USSR is possible.
    Quote: Illanatol
    Is the "Great Caliphate" already built in Central Asia?

    Details are being clarified over time.
    Quote: Illanatol
    now do not mind signing agreements with us, CSTO and SCO, other "Eurasian unions" to organize

    While they are giving money, they have to take it, why not?
  • Plastmaster
    Plastmaster 18 January 2021 19: 59
    0
    [quote = Illanatol] And we understood what can be expected from overseas partners with their tough pragmatism and national egoism. They say it is true that everything is learned in comparison ... [/ quote]
    [quote = Illa neither fig nor who understood. And those who sign something .... Just watch their interests. The interests of the people and the nation are the union of families, houses, districts, cities, countries. In order not to hang locks on the door. Utopia, but at least a working version was.
  • Fitter65
    Fitter65 16 January 2021 00: 18
    +3
    Quote: Mountain Shooter
    Add dates above 30 years there ...

    Please indicate the article on which in the USSR was condemned for 30 years or more.
  • Pilat2009
    Pilat2009 20 January 2021 15: 29
    -1
    Quote: Mountain Shooter
    Quote: Arzt
    We compare court death sentences. What does war have to do with it?

    Add dates above 30 years there ...
    And what about wars? And during the war and after the executions of traitors, spies, saboteurs, Vlasovites took place ... And how many? How many of those 600-odd thousand?
    And how many Japanese people were sent to the camps? Without any guilt or judgment?
    And how many of them died in these camps?
    And how many US citizens died during the Great Depression? This data is still classified.
    However, the numbers are monstrous. Some researchers give a figure of 4 million.
    Against 670 thousand in 32 years!
    Here, either panties, or a cross ...

    And what, during the years of the Great Depression, they imprisoned, shot? Then add the dead in the USSR from hunger
  • Turist1996
    Turist1996 16 January 2021 07: 27
    +1
    That is, Vlasov, Bandera, policemen and accomplices, such as Tonka the machine-gunner, in your opinion, are not included in this number?
  • sleeve
    sleeve 16 January 2021 17: 25
    +5
    Oh her ... That's a statement! I apologize, but for the sake of the purity of the experiment, I propose to make a revolution in the USA (namely, with a change in property relations), then ignite a civil war, well, and then sum up the statistics. I assure you, with an American temperament, the numbers will be simply amazing.
    The argument that the lack of revolution confirms the fairness of the system is not accepted for reasons you know
    1. Doctor
      Doctor 16 January 2021 17: 58
      0
      Oh her ... That's a statement! I apologize, but for the sake of the purity of the experiment, I propose to make a revolution in the USA (namely, with a change in property relations), then ignite a civil war, well, and then sum up the statistics. I assure you, with an American temperament, the numbers will be simply amazing.
      The argument that the lack of revolution confirms the fairness of the system is not accepted for reasons you know

      What we call the War of Independence is called the American Revolution in the history books of the United States. Marxism recognizes it as a bourgeois revolution.
      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Revolution
      They also had a civil war.

      But what does this have to do with it? You want to say that in the Second World War they were shot on the basis of the class principle? laughing
      1. sleeve
        sleeve 17 January 2021 12: 21
        +2
        AND? You now kind of reprimanded me that everything I suggested to put into the experiment was already and the result was "fluffy"? And only we have such a butchery and a dance of lawlessness? I'll probably never understand these methods to mix square with red and soft with Japanese. Let's get it consistent.
        Speech in an article about the repressions of the Stalinist period. This is the second phase of the revolutionary struggle. Reformatting the "winning base". Plus the whole revelry of popular fun with 40 million denunciations and "overfishing" from the NKVD in the field. Which (the leaders) will also later be included in these figures.
        1776 in the United States did without fratricide. Well, there were no non-alien representatives of the non-bourgeoisie in the colonies. Or am I missing something about "Kingdom of Virginia" or "Duchy of Maine"? So there was no "class" character in the war. The national character of property changed (or rather, it finally settled down). So the "exploiters" just sat down and sailed away, or to Canada there. "For the native land" they fought, and bloody, and fairly so, but not like ours "to the end."
        And who raised the issue of the class background in the Second World War? My proposal was to create an appropriate social "entourage" no more. "Each vegetable has its own term." The flywheel of executions and arrests each time received a certain impulse. 21st year - "pure counter-revolution", 33year-breaking the ridge of the peasantry, 37year-cleaning the top and general "tightening the screws", 41-45 preservation and strengthening of martial law, up to 51year-episodic struggle both with opposition and with just dissent, well, punishment of war crimes.
        So we have what we have. The most complex historical matrix. A bloody page in the modern practically history of the country with its causes and consequences. An attempt to obscure the versatility of causes, consequences and realizations with the fetish of bloody Stalin. To create a bogey-which you can simply lean against Russia at any suitable moment. Something like this.
        1. Doctor
          Doctor 17 January 2021 13: 58
          0
          And who raised the issue of the class background in the Second World War? My proposal was to create an appropriate social "entourage" no more. "Each vegetable has its own term." The flywheel of executions and arrests each time received a certain impulse. 21st year - "pure counter-revolution", 33year-breaking the ridge of the peasantry, 37year-cleaning the top and general "tightening the screws", 41-45 preservation and strengthening of martial law, up to 51year-episodic struggle both with opposition and with just dissent, well, punishment of war crimes.

          Everything is correct. Only not the entourage, but the method of management.

          For example, the dialogue on 22.07.41/XNUMX/XNUMX of the Black Sea Fleet operational officer, caperang N.T. Rybalko with his commander:

          At about 3 o'clock, the duty officer was informed that the SNIS and VNOS posts (SNIS - Observation and Communication Service. VNOS - Air Surveillance, Alert and Communication. - Ed.) Hear the noise of aircraft engines. Rybalko reports this to ID Eliseev.
          - Should we open fire on unknown aircraft? - Colonel Zhilin, the head of the air defense, calls.
          “Report to the commander,” the chief of staff replies. Rybalko reports to the fleet commander. And then they have a conversation, which I reproduce on the record of the attendant.
          F.S. Oktyabrsky. Are our planes in the air?
          N.T.Rybalko. Our planes are not.
          F.S. Oktyabrsky. Keep in mind that if there is at least one of our aircraft in the air, you will be shot tomorrow.


          We are not talking about the fate of the state yet, the Germans are not yet near Moscow, but the fleet commander is easily ready to shoot his officer. For what? And for the fact that it is possible he will shoot down his plane. In the night. :

          "Ingenious management" in all its glory. Through the execution cellars. angry
          1. sleeve
            sleeve 17 January 2021 14: 27
            +1
            Yes ... You can't argue. The terrible meaning of the proverb about the fool and prayer. Only the forehead is not yours ... and not alone.
  • TANKISTONE
    TANKISTONE 20 January 2021 18: 21
    +1
    Arzt (Yuri) Around the same time period (from 1900 to 1972), fewer than 8 (eight thousand, Karl!) People were executed in the states.
    Can you provide data on the "repressed" USA during the formation of statehood? And those who lived on the North American continent before the arrival of the "world democrats", where are they, where are the archives about the number of those destroyed by American troikas, judicial boards, courts? Where, Karl ???
    1. Doctor
      Doctor 20 January 2021 19: 56
      -1
      Can you provide data on the "repressed" USA during the formation of statehood? And those who lived on the North American continent before the arrival of the "world democrats", where are they, where are the archives about the number of those destroyed by American troikas, judicial boards, courts? Where, Karl ???

      You take a small period. 65 million years ago, the asteroid struck, all the plants above a meter lay down and more and more dogs died. Start from there.

      But seriously, we are talking about OUR CITIZENS EXECUTED BY COURT.
      In some countries - pseudo-courts. wink
      1. TANKISTONE
        TANKISTONE 20 January 2021 20: 01
        0
        Arzt (Yuri) we are talking about OUR CITIZENS EXECUTED BY COURT.
        But what about a link to an archival document that mentions "not their own" citizens, added to the "general" list? ..
        1. Doctor
          Doctor 20 January 2021 20: 08
          -1
          But what about a link to an archival document that mentions "not their own" citizens, added to the "general" list? ..

          Didn't understand which link?
    2. Taga
      Taga 21 January 2021 22: 15
      0
      Probably, not all Indians hold for people, who considered them?
  • Revolver
    Revolver 15 January 2021 01: 23
    -2
    Quote: Dart2027
    And that there was a civil war in the United States

    How not to be? It was, only a little earlier - from 1861 to 1865.
    Quote: Dart2027
    and several years of hostilities
    It was the same, during the struggle against British colonialism, ended by 1783.
    1. Dart2027
      Dart2027 15 January 2021 18: 54
      +2
      Quote: Nagan
      It was, only a little earlier - from 1861 to 1865.

      Quote: Nagan
      during the struggle against British colonialism, ended by 1783.

      And how many Americans were killed? Percentage?
  • hhhhhhh
    hhhhhhh 15 January 2021 17: 50
    +3
    The burning of people in Sangmi Village by the US military is not a crime.
  • BAI
    BAI 14 January 2021 20: 24
    +24
    It depends on whom to compare with.
    You can, for example, from the USA.

    In 2008, scientists from the Center for Prison Research at King's College London estimated that a quarter of the world's prisoners are held in US prisons, despite the fact that this country is home to only five percent of the world's population (The New York Times).

    But what about prisoners who received life sentences, or several life sentences at once?
    1. Doctor
      Doctor 14 January 2021 20: 40
      -21%
      But what about prisoners who received life sentences, or several life sentences at once?

      If they didn't stab in prison, then death from natural causes. laughing
      If stabbed to death - murder. But it was NOT the STATE that killed.
    2. Revolver
      Revolver 15 January 2021 01: 52
      +11
      Quote: BAI
      But what about prisoners who received life sentences, or several life sentences at once?

      Life prisoners are usually released on parole, after 20 years, or even less. Several life sentences, with consecutive imprisonment, are given just to exclude the very possibility of parole or amnesty. I was amnestied for one term - I went to serve the next one.
      And there was also such a funny incident. A certain killer was sentenced in New York State to life without parole (there is such a thing on the list of punishments). But while they were looking for him, he left for Oklahoma and killed someone there too. While Oklahoma figured out who to look for, he was already on trial in NY. Then he was extradited to OK and sentenced to a watchtower there. The governor of NY, crap Cuomo (the father of the current governor), a staunch opponent of the death penalty, filed a lawsuit in the Supreme Court, arguing that since he was sentenced in NY earlier, he must serve a term in NY before being sentenced to OK. The court agreed with him, and the criminal was sent from death row to OK to sit on general regime in NY. But laughing a couple of years later, Cuomo lost the election to Republican Pataki, the proponent of the death penalty. One of the first acts of Pataki, this murderer was pardoned outright lol , freeing from further imprisonment and subsequent probation. He strongly did not want to leave the prison, so the jailers dragged him out of there by force. At the exit from prison, the sheriff's deputies of OK were already waiting for him, where his sentence was soon carried out.
    3. Cherry Nine
      Cherry Nine 15 January 2021 08: 36
      +1
      Quote: BAI
      that a quarter of the world's prisoners are held in US prisons, despite the fact that only five percent of the world's population lives in this country

      The criminal justice system in the United States is disgusting, it is America's shame and a bipartisan crime against its people. When and if the American people pay attention to it, they outweigh most legislators and judges.

      And why did you remember that?
      1. Illanatol
        Illanatol 16 January 2021 08: 35
        +3
        The criminal law system in the United States is disgusting, it is America's shame and a bipartisan crime against its people.

        Power is not with the parties, but with the financial oligarchs. Parties are just political instruments in the hands of their real masters. The latter wanted to spit on those who are considered "electoral cattle".
        The so-called "people" (an object, not a subject of politics) will never pay attention to anything and outweigh anyone. Dreamwalkers, no more.
        The system can only be opposed to another system, and the other is not yet visible on the horizon.
        1. Cherry Nine
          Cherry Nine 16 January 2021 13: 28
          -1
          Quote: Illanatol
          Power is not with parties, but with financial oligarchs

          There was a time, they liked to gossip about the power of financial oligarchs in Russia on the example of the so-called. Semibankirshchina. I will inform you, as an educational program, that Potanin is the only one of those seven alive and legitimate. G.G. Aven and Fridman, who also did not seem to have public problems, have been in Russia less often than New Years for many years.

          So no, it was not the American financial oligarchs who adopted laws such that the number of murders per million of the population in the United States is three times higher than the Canadian one, and the number of prisoners is six times. This is the activity of politicians of both parties, cruel, insane and hypocritical.
          1. Illanatol
            Illanatol 16 January 2021 14: 13
            +2
            There was a time, they liked to gossip about the power of financial oligarchs in Russia on the example of the so-called. Semibankirshchina.


            It's not about Russia. Our bankers are just pugs compared to the Rothschilds there.
            They did not even put the ruble "printing press" under their control, and those in the pocket of the Fed.
            That the little finger is next to the "club of Hercules".
            But even the Semibankirshchyna was a real power in the 90s, it was reckoned with. And one of these seven bankers and Putin was led by the hand into the corridors of power. Then, however, they did not get along, the banker had to be taken out of the brackets.

            Politicians are only "hired managers". And laws are adopted which please the "elite". And the elite are deeply indifferent to all these problems, the profit from this does not decrease. From their point of view, in general, it would be nice to reduce the population of the country by several times in order to pay less for the social world, artificially support the bloated middle class, which for the most part does not produce its real value, only wipes its pants in offices.
            1. Cherry Nine
              Cherry Nine 16 January 2021 14: 31
              +1
              And what have the Rothschilds got to do with it? They didn't teach history with geography at all, did they?
              Quote: Illanatol
              From their point of view, in general, it would be nice to reduce the population of the country at times in order to pay less for the social world,

              Listen to you, so in the United States or Israel, where the population is constantly growing (and even the Mexicans were brought half of Mexico), the Rothschilds fail wildly, but in the God-saved sovereign Russia they are quite successful in demographic terms. You have some wrong thoughts, here you can reach any unnecessary conclusions.
          2. Taga
            Taga 21 January 2021 22: 31
            0
            I will inform you, as an educational program, that of those seven, Potanin is the only one alive and legitimate. G.G. Aven and Fridman, who also did not seem to have public problems, have been in Russia less often than New Years for many years.

            If legislators, government, etc. defends their interests, then they do not have to be in the country personally!
  • EvilLion
    EvilLion 15 January 2021 09: 04
    +7
    You know, I recommend that you look at what is now happening on the remnants of the Ukrainian SSR, and what happened, for example, in Turkey in 2016, after Perdogan's attempt to knock off what was in the United States during the McCarthy era. What happened in Germany in the 44th after the assassination attempt on Hitler. Everywhere the same thing happens, a bunch of people who may simply be suspected of being unreliable are repressed. In what form, it depends on the public mood. In Germany, during wartime, the conversation was short, in / in the country 404 is already often killed without trial. The prosperous USA and Turkey were fired and imprisoned. It's too much to shoot, people are not used to rivers of blood. In the USSR, 20 years before the repressions, gangs were rushing around the country and the intensity of the civil participants' hatred for each other was beyond limits. Then the Bolsheviks won and somehow quickly squashed everyone, but the people who were accustomed to the saber and the Mauser did not disappear, like the mass of those who were from the stupid Ippolit Matveyevich Vorobyaninov to smart and decisive anti-Soviets who were just waiting for the moment. And those who were 20 in the civil society, who got used to the revolutionary sense of justice, at the end of the 30s were 40, that is, these people were already in high positions.

    So it is simply pointless to compare the banal executions for criminality, which are few in any society, and the class struggle in the conditions of the strongest ideologization of society. In the USSR, everyone went crazy after the disclosure of Tukhachevsky's conspiracy, when for some time the NKVD was given carte blanche, so then Beria had to be at the head and somehow to stop this business. But, most likely, if something like that had not exploded then, it would have exploded somewhere else. We were lucky that this happened before the War.

    By the way, the number of people executed was most likely much less, since they could have read the execution and immediately replaced it for 10 years.
  • Petrik66
    Petrik66 15 January 2021 15: 41
    +2
    Arzt (Yuri) - For 315 days of registration - 8,18 messages every day. Olgovich (Andrey) - for 4 years, 11,55 messages every day Productivity and great attention to our Motherland.))))))
    1. Doctor
      Doctor 15 January 2021 16: 30
      +1
      Arzt (Yuri) - For 315 days of registration - 8,18 messages every day. Olgovich (Andrey) - for 4 years, 11,55 messages every day Productivity and great attention to our Motherland.))))))

      We need to support the site!
  • nnm
    nnm 16 January 2021 08: 24
    -3
    And how many Japanese who lived in the United States in concentration camps in the United States during WWII died? Where do you have this figure?
    1. Cherry Nine
      Cherry Nine 16 January 2021 13: 30
      +4
      Quote: nnm
      How many Japanese who lived in the USA in concentration camps in the USA during WWII were killed?

      We have already written above. 1862 people from all reasons.
      1. nnm
        nnm 16 January 2021 14: 07
        0
        Well, yes, this is absolutely nothing compared to Hiroshima, Nagasaki or the sprinkling of chemicals in Vietnam, where children with congenital defects are still born because of this. But how can you doubt the humanity of the United States ?! This is a shining city on a hill and God forbid someone to doubt it. And anticipating your question - is the life of Americans more valuable than the life of a Vietnamese child?
        1. Cherry Nine
          Cherry Nine 16 January 2021 14: 19
          +2
          Quote: nnm
          Well, yes, this is absolutely nothing compared to Hiroshima, Nagasaki or sprinkling with chemicals in Vietnam

          What does "nothing" mean? American citizens died in the camps, but they did not die in the incidents you listed. So the first is a crime, and the second is neutral historical facts.
          Quote: nnm
          But how can you doubt the humanity of the United States?

          Humanity has never been the forte of the American political system. Why do you remember this?
          Quote: nnm
          Is the life of Americans more valuable than the life of a Vietnamese child?

          Some strange question. A basic human right is the right to vote in elections for the US President and the US Congress. All other rights, including the right to life, derive from this basic right and do not exist separately from it. So let the Vietnamese children live as they want. Or do not live, no one will persuade.
          1. nnm
            nnm 16 January 2021 15: 00
            -1
            Quote: Cherry Nine
            So the first is a crime, and the second is neutral historical facts.

            Bravo!!! The death of your fellow citizens is a crime, the murder (just because you wanted to) of citizens of other countries is a "neutral historical fact! Did you borrow the concept of" interaction "with Jews and Slavs from Hitler? It's just very similar ....
            1. Cherry Nine
              Cherry Nine 16 January 2021 15: 54
              +3
              Quote: nnm
              Bravo!

              I'm glad I helped highlight the topic.
              Quote: nnm
              You, for an hour, didn't you borrow the concept of "interaction" with Jews and Slavs from Hitler?

              Hitler? And what does he have to do with it? It was not Hitler who invented it and did not end with Hitler. You will also say that there are people in the whole world who do not care about the loss of Afghanistan during the period of international debt or the loss of the countries - recipients of democracy during the "War on Terror". A million there, a million here, what's the difference?
  • depressant
    depressant 14 January 2021 22: 35
    +12
    I join my colleagues.
    Dear Author!
    I am very grateful for your research. It is precisely such detailed and accurate data from primary sources that is often lacking in a dispute with opponents, and now we all have reference material.
    Thank you again for the work done and the opportunity to use the statistics you have provided. I wish you success in your further research! hi
    1. kalibr
      kalibr 15 January 2021 13: 13
      +4
      Quote: depressant
      I join my colleagues.
      Dear Author!
      I am very grateful for your research. It is precisely such detailed and accurate data from primary sources that is often lacking in a dispute with opponents, and now we all have reference material.
      Thank you again for the work done and the opportunity to use the statistics you have provided. I wish you success in your further research!

      What kind of research? Lyudmila Yakovlevna! Anyone, including you, can open all this on the RGASPI website. And there it all is! All these figures are even in the history textbook for grade 10, 1995! Everything is. Long. And for some reason, people still wonder ... What? Own ignorance or laziness to type, open, look? We expect a "platter with a border" ...
      1. depressant
        depressant 15 January 2021 13: 44
        +6
        Vyacheslav Olegovich, dear! )))
        So after all, you need to know where to look for information that I do not need in my own research in a completely different scientific field. Life is short, and mine is shorter than anyone else's. And I cannot spend it on rummaging through sources to obtain information that is needed only occasionally, from time to time. Therefore, I am grateful to Mrs. Author for the reference "wallet". So, if you want - laziness and ignorance, choose what you like, or everything in bulk, I am an extremely reckless person)))
        1. kalibr
          kalibr 15 January 2021 14: 35
          +1
          When you are interested in something, just ask a question on the Internet.
          1. depressant
            depressant 15 January 2021 15: 51
            +2
            So I asked! The Internet said so: about 700 thousand. But there were no links to documents. Or maybe they were. Only two years ago, having no experience of clinching on the forum, I did not attach any importance to links. It seemed to me that since they said on the Internet, then it is so, the information is generally accepted, it is not necessary to indicate the source. This is now, having looked at the VO forums and sometimes beaten, I understand that it is necessary to indicate the source, since the sources are different, forming different stocks in the form of comments. Such is the school. And, by the way, yours. On your topics, there are always clashes of opinions with links to authoritative authors who have a directly opposite opinion about the issue. Battles, so to speak)))
            1. kalibr
              kalibr 15 January 2021 16: 03
              +1
              I also had several articles on the same topic. But you have to look for it on the profile, and there are almost 1400 of them ... I don't remember when. And VO readers even more so.
              1. depressant
                depressant 15 January 2021 16: 24
                +2
                And also know that you had them)))
                Not so long ago I began to regularly go to your topics, and among them there were no speeches about repression. Vyacheslav Olegovich, I’m not a telepathic person, and I’m not even a clairvoyant, so that through the thickness of the bits, with an inspired inner eye, I can detect the signal coming from the desired heading. I would like to, but it does not work. You yourself had to write out and number your articles in a column in a separate file and at the right time, seeing my or someone else's clumsy, unsubstantiated comments, angrily give a link. And now it is difficult to even guess what information wealth is buried somewhere in the digital subsoil. And you have buried it! crying
                1. kalibr
                  kalibr 15 January 2021 16: 43
                  0
                  Quote: depressant
                  And now it is difficult to even guess what information wealth is buried somewhere in the digital subsoil. And you buried it!

                  Hands do not reach everything. Do you know what my busy schedule is? Oh oh!
                2. depressant
                  depressant 15 January 2021 17: 12
                  +2
                  Yes, I imagine ...)))
                  So include in it a list-bibliography of articles on VO and, most importantly, in sections, and slowly, slowly, as if by the way, gradually make it. This is what material!
                  In general, I wonder why there is no library on the VO site. There is a line - they say, enter what you are looking for, and what will I enter if I only have a need for some material with a vaguely formulated topic, without an exact address? If there was a library, I would go there and find what I need. I think the number of VO visitors would increase by an order of magnitude. People would start going at least for reference material. I had a chance to somehow read old articles from deep past years. It was so interesting that I even read the comments. But when old materials are published randomly and haphazardly, that's one thing. When the library is different.
                3. kalibr
                  kalibr 15 January 2021 17: 27
                  0
                  Quote: depressant
                  When the library is different.

                  But it is there. Each author ...
                4. depressant
                  depressant 15 January 2021 18: 10
                  +1
                  Yes, I looked - you have 1390 articles that are not categorized by thematic sections. Just leaf through, not knowing what you are browsing. How could I know that you have articles on this topic? We need a site library. In the section "Armaments" there is something like that: aviation, navy, etc.
              2. kalibr
                kalibr 15 January 2021 17: 30
                0
                Quote: depressant
                This is what material!

                A woman's request is a law for a caballero!
                Here are the addresses of articles on figures for the Great Terror. As you can see, all this has ALREADY BEEN-TRANSLATED ... Including the comments ...
                https://topwar.ru/98157-bolshoy-terror-cifry-fakty-i-sovsem-nemnogo-vyvodov-chast-1.html

                https://topwar.ru/98158-bolshoy-terror-cifry-fakty-chast-2.html
              3. depressant
                depressant 15 January 2021 17: 59
                +2
                Opened the first line - wow! Powerful, however. But this is 2016. I was not on the site then. There are a lot of comments from experts. I'll have to write these two addresses in my notebook. And it will be necessary, not limited to a cursory review, to read everything carefully.
              4. kalibr
                kalibr 15 January 2021 18: 39
                +2
                It's just Lyudmila Yakovlevna, there is an iron law 90 + 1. All advertisers know (or should know) him. Non-professional after 90 days forgets 90% of what he read. And after 1 day you can write about the same again or give the same advertisement. And what will happen in 180 days, in 365 days? At best, someone will say - he wrote about it! And that's all ... It's just that I personally find it boring to rewrite myself several times in different words ... Well, many authors in VO do not know the word historiography at all and each time "discover America." So it was already with Lend-Lease, now "new songs about old numbers" ... People are learning ...
              5. Doctor
                Doctor 16 January 2021 16: 24
                +1
                I'll have to write these two addresses in my notebook. And it will be necessary, not limited to a cursory review, to read everything carefully.

                It's boring.
                Read "The Purification" by Suvorov. The same one.
                I bet you won't come off. wink
              6. depressant
                depressant 16 January 2021 17: 36
                0
                Arzt's colleague started reading on Libbooks. For some reason in parentheses Icebreaker-4.

                “... most of all, Goebbels is worried, worried, annoyed, driven mad by the weakness of the top leadership of the German army and state.

                Immediately on the second page: “If someone like Goering is completely out of step, then he needs to be brought to his senses. Decorated with orders of D. Uraki (policy of the VO website) and some scented veils should not be involved in the conduct of the war. Either they will be corrected, or they must be eliminated. "

                Such was the time, such a stage in the development of society. The physical elimination of those unfit for the state solved the dangerous problem of their possible suitability for the opposing state.
              7. Doctor
                Doctor 16 January 2021 18: 29
                +1
                Arzt's colleague started reading on Libbooks. For some reason in parentheses Icebreaker-4.

                “... most of all, Goebbels is worried, worried, annoyed, driven mad by the weakness of the top leadership of the German army and state.

                Immediately on the second page: “If someone like Goering is completely out of step, then he needs to be brought to his senses. Decorated with orders of D. Uraki (policy of the VO website) and some scented veils should not be involved in the conduct of the war. Either they will be corrected, or they must be eliminated. "

                Such was the time, such a stage in the development of society. The physical elimination of those unfit for the state solved the dangerous problem of their possible suitability for the opposing state.

                Icebreaker - 4 because the 4th book about the causes of the Second World War.

                Goebbels is an introduction.
                Further will be on the topic of the article.
                The fact is that for the first time Suvorov-Rezun, a defector, wrote about 40 FIRED, and not FIRED. With calculations and analysis of specific characters.

                In this book, Suvorov justifies the "purges" of the 30s, reveals the reasons and argues for their beneficial influence on the course of the war.
                This is exactly what he writes:

                And the conclusion is still the same: Comrade Stalin did not shoot them very much. Unforgivable little ...
                All the blame is the unforgivable and even criminal Stalinist kindness. It was she who interfered with the establishment of real order in the country and the army.
                laughing
  • Malyuta
    Malyuta 14 January 2021 18: 50
    +17
    Quote: nnm
    Modern historians all voice the figure within 700 thousand people.
    Of course, we are not talking about Western "scientists" and the like.

    Modern "scientists" ...., haha ​​.., Spitsin smashes all their inventions to smithereens.
    1. nnm
      nnm 14 January 2021 18: 52
      +12
      And what number of those executed for political reasons does Spitsin give as a result?
      As far as I remember, in my work "History of the USSR. No. 90. The problem of political repression in the 1930s." he, with reference to exactly the same report by Rudenko and Zemskov's monograph, comes to exactly the same figure.
      1. Malyuta
        Malyuta 14 January 2021 19: 12
        +15
        Quote: nnm
        And what number of those executed for political reasons does Spitsin give as a result?

        Spitsin speaks in his books and lectures about the same 17 people who were shot, and many of the modern hacks talk about hundreds of thousands.
        1. nnm
          nnm 14 January 2021 19: 17
          +2
          In the work of Spitsyn, which I voiced above, there is no such figure even close. The maximum is 3.7 million, but this is under the articles on "especially grave crimes of the state" and he took this figure from a note to Khrushchev dated 54, so the reliability of this document is extremely doubtful
  • Illanatol
    Illanatol 16 January 2021 08: 20
    +1
    Of course, all were "innocently repressed". Allegedly, there were no guilty ones.
    Well, well.
    What happens to the state apparatus, if we get rid of it, we clearly saw in the 90s. Treason and corruption are blooming.
    Any politician proceeds from the principle of analogy. Stalin knew perfectly well what corruption and the "fifth column" lead to in the example of the Russian Empire in the First World War. So I tried to avoid repetition.
  • DrEng527
    DrEng527 14 January 2021 18: 37
    +2
    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
    The figures I have collected on the repression are not at hand (I have been doing this for a long time), but the order of the figures is approximately the same

    there is good work by Zemsky on this issue, but this work is frankly weak request
    1. nnm
      nnm 14 January 2021 18: 55
      +3
      Why? Zemskov also relies on Rudenko's report.
      1. DrEng527
        DrEng527 15 January 2021 12: 05
        -1
        Quote: nnm
        Why? Zemskov also relies on Rudenko's report.

        read it - it is on the web. https://www.politpros.com/journal/read/?ID=783
        in the opus we are considering, everything is simplified and minimized - it is clear that the work was done not from research, but political goals - to gloss over ... request
    2. Olgovich
      Olgovich 14 January 2021 21: 42
      -11%
      Quote: DrEng527
      and this work is frankly weak

      very weak.

      Zemskov:
      The term "repression" can be interpreted in different ways. I limit myself to "political repression", that is, those citizens who were charged with Article 58 of the Criminal Code (counter-revolutionary activities and other grave crimes against the state) and who were sentenced to death or other punishment. From 1921 to 1953 there were about 4 million people... Of these, about 800 thousand were sentenced to be shot. In addition, we estimate that about 600 died in prison, bringing the total number of victims to 1,4 million.


      The figures are absolutely similar to Pavlov's famous 1953 references.

      but this is only Art 58.

      But they were also tried on other articles.

      Besides. without any trial 4 million peasants were repressed in the 1930s: 2.4 million of them were exiled. about 600 thousand were killed.

      Deported without trial more than 3 million (whole nations. people from the Baltic states, Bessarabia. Western Ukraine and Belarus, etc.). Their deaths, they call the total number over hundreds of thousands.

      For the military: out of 275 thousand Russian officers of 1917, only ... several hundred took part in the Second World War.
      Tens of thousands of them were destroyed in 20-30 / years (after GW) (DIN S. Volkov)

      And what about the law on three spikelets, being late for work, etc.?
      1. aybolyt678
        aybolyt678 14 January 2021 23: 51
        +7
        Quote: Olgovich
        And what about the law on three spikelets, being late for work, etc.?

        Everything is absolutely correct! from 21 to 53, according to all your articles, a little more than 7 million victims are recruited, among them less than a million is absolutely fatal. Taking into account GV and WWII, this is not an impressive figure for 30 years. negative Even if 7 million are divided by 30 years, this is 230 thousand people a year, which corresponds to deaths from alcoholism, drug addiction and suicide in our capitalist times.
        1. Avior
          Avior 15 January 2021 03: 19
          +2
          Zemskov's work, it turns out, discredits Rudenko's note.
          The numbers don't agree much.
          Zemskov has one more article than Rudenko's note on all.
        2. Olgovich
          Olgovich 15 January 2021 08: 30
          -2
          Quote: aybolyt678
          not an impressive figure.

          The main executions took place from August 1937 to August 1938.

          This is 681 thousand VMN-cm. Pavlov's reference. This is 1865 people a day. Now imagine how many newspaper sheets you need to print at least the names of these 1865 people. Every day of a peaceful year ..

          and yes. by the way. why didn't they print them every day?

          when did these information become known to us? Why did they hide such a fair deed?

          The people did not come out with a snout. what to know?
          1. aybolyt678
            aybolyt678 15 January 2021 09: 13
            +6
            Quote: Olgovich
            1865 people Every day of a peaceful year ..

            who was supposed to be responsible for the ruined peasants? for collectivization? for sabotage, sabotage?
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 15 January 2021 10: 18
              +2
              Quote: aybolyt678
              who was supposed to be responsible for the ruined peasants? for collectivization? for sabotage, sabotage?

              what are you? belay
              the mass operation of 1937 was called the "kulak" operation, i.e. for the ruined peasants in 1930-33 they shot ... the peasants themselves in 1937? request
              1. aybolyt678
                aybolyt678 15 January 2021 11: 32
                +4
                At 37-38, those activists were shot who shot other supposedly enemies. Red barons were also shot.
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 15 January 2021 11: 42
                  +3
                  Quote: aybolyt678
                  In 37-38, those activists were shot who shot other alleged enemies

                  In 53 they shot those who in 1939-40 shot those who in 37-38 shot those who shot in 36.

                  who was shot "correctly"? request
                  1. Cherry Nine
                    Cherry Nine 15 January 2021 11: 56
                    +1
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    In 53 they shot those who in 1939-40 shot those who in 37-38 shot those who shot in 36.

                    who was shot "correctly"?

                    All, of course.
        3. Cherry Nine
          Cherry Nine 15 January 2021 08: 41
          +4
          Quote: aybolyt678
          Taking into account GV and WWII, this is not an impressive figure for 30 years.

          I mean, (generalized) Russians in the 1/2 of the twentieth century were killed so much that plus or minus a million do not care?

          Well, it's hard to argue with that.
          Quote: aybolyt678
          which corresponds to deaths from alcoholism, drug addiction and suicide in our capitalist times.

          And under Comrade Stalin they did not die of anything like that, they lived up to 100 years.
          1. aybolyt678
            aybolyt678 15 January 2021 09: 29
            +5
            Quote: Cherry Nine
            I mean, (generalized) Russians in the 1/2 of the twentieth century were killed so much that plus or minus a million do not care?

            for the mourners, the question is - how would you act in leadership of the country, in a hostile environment, with the armed population that was born under capitalism, went through wars, social stress?
            Quote: Cherry Nine
            And under Comrade Stalin, they did not die of anything like that, they lived up to 100 years
            - Under Stalin, the surrounding physical reality was changed, and now reality is being replaced by virtual, alcoholic, narcotic.
            1. Cherry Nine
              Cherry Nine 15 January 2021 10: 30
              +6
              Quote: aybolyt678
              and how would you act in leadership of the country

              I? I ate whom I could, killed the rest, and then went to France to live beautifully. I am Jean Bedel Bokassa.

              And you comrade. Do you have to compare Stalin with me? Do you want to compare with the rest of the leaders of the states of the former Republic of Ingushetia? How many people did they destroy?
              1. aybolyt678
                aybolyt678 15 January 2021 11: 37
                +6
                Quote: Cherry Nine
                And you comrade. Do you have to compare Stalin with me?

                not necessary. Strictly speaking, if there is no alternative opinion on how to act, then there is nothing to talk about. I have been hearing songs condemning Stalin for 35 years already. And the understanding of his actions came right now. when your own power became hostile.
            2. DrEng527
              DrEng527 15 January 2021 12: 08
              +3
              Quote: aybolyt678
              how would you behave while leading the country, in a hostile environment, with the armed population that was born under capitalism, went through wars, social stress?

              depends on your goals - so that the people live well or that you are in power ... request
        4. DrEng527
          DrEng527 15 January 2021 12: 06
          +1
          Quote: aybolyt678
          year, which corresponds to deaths from alcoholism, drug addiction and suicide in our capitalist time.

          do you think this was not in the Soviet? bully
      2. EvilLion
        EvilLion 15 January 2021 09: 27
        +5
        Do you generally understand that when 99% of the drafted Chechens defect from the army, they would simply be shot in the courts in wartime, after which the Chechens as a people would simply not exist now?

        Besides. 4 million peasants were repressed without any trial in the 1930s: 2.4 million of them were exiled. about 600 thousand died


        What kind of peasants? Kulakov? Are you generally aware that dispossession began from below, simply because in the village they know much better who is who, and they will ask to bring down unwanted elements? Although you are generally based on zeros, that I do not remember what you wrote before. No, if a kulak set fire to a collective farm barn, or killed an activist, then, of course, he will be tried and jailed, or even shot.

        For the military: out of 275 thousand Russian officers of 1917, only ... several hundred took part in the Second World War.


        Even if we ignore the nonsense about tens of thousands of people killed, then the kid, people, if you didn't know, are getting old, the lieutenant, who was 1917 in 20, will be 1941 in 44. This is when the draft age is up to 50. was reduced to a meager size. That is, almost all the officers of the tsarist army who went over to the Reds (and this is 40 percent) and survived the civilian, either did not live up to the Second World War, (Shaposhnikov lived here, but he already had trouble with his health, he would no longer be in command of the army smog), or demobilized and settled in civilian life. Obviously, if the battalion commander demobilized in the 20th battalion in the 41st works as a shop manager at a factory, which is very likely, since an officer, then there is definitely an education, then no one will call him back.
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 15 January 2021 11: 11
          -3
          Quote: EvilLion
          Do you generally understand that when 99% of the drafted Chechens defect from the army, they would simply be shot in the courts in wartime, after which the Chechens as a people would simply not exist now?

          when it comes. what each A CRIMINAL must be punished for his crime?

          And they did NOT carry him for military crimes. ... At all. but the exiled CHILDREN died the most.

          How many criminals there were, so many should have been punished. With the Russians. for example, no one stood on ceremony.

          The law is the same for everyone! Got it?


          Quote: EvilLion
          What kind of peasants? Kulakov? Are you generally aware that dispossession began from below, simply because in the village they know much better who is who, and they will ask to bring down unwanted elements? Although you are generally based on zeros, that I do not remember what you wrote before. No, if a kulak set fire to a collective farm barn, or killed an activist, then, of course, he will be tried and jailed, or even shot.

          Ignorance rules - mass dispossession has begun decision Politburo of the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party (b) of January 30, 1930 "On measures to eliminate kulak farms in areas of complete collectivization"

          These граждане NO Laws were violated, but they were robbed and exiled WITHOUT trial, in violation of ALL Soviet laws!
          The poor, the middle peasants, the communists and the red partisans were also exiled, for everything turned into a bacchanalia of settling accounts, revenge, envy, theft, and appropriation of other people's property. rape, etc., etc., read the documents.

          80% of the deceased in exile are CHILDREN, hear?
          Quote: EvilLion
          Even if we ignore the nonsense about tens of thousands of people killed, then baby, people, if you didn't know, are getting old, the lieutenant, who was 1917 in 20, will be 1941 in 44.

          .In the Wehrmacht, from the battalion commander and above are the PMV officers. We have how many of them. a?
          Quote: EvilLion
          This is at a draft age of up to 50

          in WWII, even for the rank and file, 55 years old.
          1. EvilLion
            EvilLion 15 January 2021 11: 41
            0
            when it comes. that every CRIMINAL should be punished for his crime?


            Well, yes, now it is obvious that all the deported should have been shot according to the law, even if they had to send several divisions, to catch Chechens and other Kyrymly in the mountains.

            "On measures to eliminate kulak farms in areas of complete collectivization"

            These citizens did not violate ANY Laws, but they were robbed and exiled WITHOUT trial, in violation of ALL Soviet laws!


            You just wrote yourself that the decision was made. If these citizens did not obey, and they could, for example, stop their kulak activities and honestly go to work on the collective farm, then they were expelled.

            The problem with your logic is that you live in the world of children's comics, where there is a Supervillain who moved his mustache because of his viciousness, and billions were immediately shot. Well, and also in a world where there is a conventional evil Zhukov, who is horror, as he loved to kill a soldier, he really enjoyed it when there were no results in a million, the war was a mess and either they would be shot in Moscow for this, or the enemy, when after the war, the trial would arrange. In the real world, however, no power will be so easy to lift the backside, to simply take, and for example, relocate somewhere large masses of people. In order for such a decision to be made, very good reasons are needed, even for the tsar, even for the Bolsheviks, even for Putin. The question is not that 1.8 million people, including family members, were resettled, the question is what made the then government do this. And for this one must at least understand what a kulak is, what would await a kulak in the event of a successful collective farm construction (spoiler: disappearance), how the kulak opposed it (spoiler: agitation, terror, sabotage), and what was generally happening in the village (spoiler: kulaks were already driven out, or even houses were burned).

            And crocodile tears about the repressed grandfather and children who in blessed tsarist Russia in 24% of cases did not live up to a year, are not interesting when it comes to choosing between repressions against a million and the death of 20 million, if repression is not carried out.
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 15 January 2021 12: 17
              -2
              Quote: EvilLion
              Well, yes, now it is obvious that all the deported should have been shot according to the law, even if they had to send several divisions, to catch Chechens and other Kyrymly in the mountains.

              Which "everyone"? fool Only proven criminals, as it was throughout the USSR.

              And you caught everyone and so - for deportation - you don't even know that
              Quote: EvilLion
              You just wrote yourself that the decision was made. If these citizens did not obey, and they could, for example, stop their kulak activities and honestly go to work on the collective farm, then they were expelled.

              illiteracy: nothing depended on the peasants and no one offered them anything or warned them about anything.

              The decision of the Politburo and the Council of Ministers is not law, according to which you can rob and exile, read the Constitution of the USSR !.
              Quote: EvilLion
              The question is not that 1.8 million people, including family members, were resettled, the question is, that forced the then government to do it.

              illiteracy, ignorance of economic laws, inability to manage the economy, naive hope of finding simple solutions.

              Once again, these CITIZENS USSR violated NOTHING, not a SINGLE law of the USSR, when will it come? NO court decision, no!

              They were simply suddenly taken out of their homes (40% are children!), They were not allowed to take anything with them, they were put into echelons and thrown into the snows of Siberia and the Arch of the region.
              Quote: EvilLion
              And crocodile tears about the repressed grandfather and children which in blessed tsarist Russia in 24% of cases did not live up to a year, are not interesting when it comes to choosing between repressions against a million and the death of 20 million, if repression is not carried out.

              This is the cannibal's judgment of children.

              and yes, what "choice between repression against a million and the death of 20 million" are we talking about? fool Show - at what congress, decision, etc. this was written
          2. EvilLion
            EvilLion 15 January 2021 12: 07
            -1
            .In the Wehrmacht, from the battalion commander and above are the PMV officers. We have how many of them. a?


            Even if we take into account that German officers did not drop out of the country en masse, did not die in civilian service, the placement of 45-year-old men in the positions of battalion commanders cannot cause anything but laughter.

            Seriously though, after WWII Germany was allowed to have 100 ground forces. That is, the overwhelming majority of officers were inevitably fired, and the total number of regimental-level formations was several dozen. That is, several hundred senior officers with the rank of colonel remained in the service. A few thousand more junior officers, that is, just those who had a chance by the beginning of WWII to rise to command a regiment, division, or even an army, like Paulus, who graduated from WWII as a captain. But there are always several lieutenants for one captain, and there is only one major for several captains, which means that only a small part passed to each next stage, the rest either got stuck or fired.

            Maybe when the Wehrmacht was created, some of these people were again involved, 40-year-old lieutenants, with beer bellies, who forgot which side to take the rifle from.

            The main threat is not from them, but from the majors and regiments, who analyzed the experience of WWI and worked out how to fight further. That is, they were doing the same thing as Zhukov or Shaposhnikov. By the way, Zhukov is also a tsarist officer, although I don’t know what you thought, maybe he didn’t consider warrant officers of the tsarist army as officers, but they were already division commanders before the Second World War, who didn’t quit.
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 15 January 2021 20: 37
              +1
              Quote: EvilLion
              Seriously though, after WWII Germany was allowed to have 100 ground forces.

              but it was the "Army of Commanders" - as it was called
              Quote: EvilLion
              By the way, Zhukov also a tsarist officeralthough i don't know

              negativeYou don't even know that: Zhukov was non-commissioned officer
        2. Sugar Honeyovich
          Sugar Honeyovich 15 January 2021 17: 01
          +3
          Quote: EvilLion
          Before the Second World War, either they did not survive (Shaposhnikov survived, but his health was already in trouble, he could no longer command the army), or they demobilized and got a job in civilian life.

          In addition, unlike the Germans, our generals in the ACTING army were quite young. In the 1940s, pre-revolutionary generals still served in the Red Army, but almost all of them were teachers. They were not at the front. Why Goebbels came to the conclusion that they say the German chiefs ... ry simply are not able to compete with the Russians. And Hitler agreed with him!
          And so it was not only in the army: "Under Stalin, the Soviet government was almost the youngest in the world in terms of age. For example, I was appointed People's Commissar of Agriculture of the USSR at the age of 35, and this was not an exception, but rather the rule. Most of the People's Commissars was about that age, even younger, and many secretaries of regional party committees at that time barely passed 30. The slogan "The youth everywhere we have a road" in the 30s and 40s was consistently carried out with iron persistence and firmness. a life....
          I can say with good reason that the course towards the promotion of youth was a conscious, comprehensively thought out and balanced line of both Stalin himself and other members of the Politburo of the Central Committee of our party. And this line has fully justified itself. I am convinced that if we entered the war with sixty-year-old people's commissars and commanders of the armies, its results could have been different ... "(IA Benediktov).
          1. basal
            basal 15 January 2021 19: 48
            +2
            How was it just taught? Vasilevsky, Govorov, Tolbukhin, Baghramyan - these are only marshals, formerly officers of the tsarist army. I don't even take Zhukov, Shaposhnikov, Budyonny.
            1. Sugar Honeyovich
              Sugar Honeyovich 16 January 2021 04: 03
              +3
              I said: in our country, unlike the Germans, the old generals, as a rule, did not fight at the front. Vasilevsky, Govorov, Tolbukhin, Baghramyan - young officers of WW1. And Zhukov and Budyonny are not officers at all. Budyonny and Voroshilov - "old men", in the beginning they commanded at the front, but not for long.
  • Malyuta
    Malyuta 14 January 2021 18: 48
    +23
    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
    Excellent work. Thank you! The figures I have collected on the repression are not at hand (I have been doing this for a long time), but the order of the numbers is approximately the same

    There would be more such articles so that anti-Soviet crystal bakers of all stripes would get thick from them.
    1. Cherry Nine
      Cherry Nine 15 January 2021 08: 41
      +1
      Quote: Malyuta
      so that anti-Soviet crunch-bakers of all stripes become thick from them.

      To be angrier.
    2. kalibr
      kalibr 15 January 2021 13: 23
      0
      Quote: Malyuta
      There would be more such articles so that anti-Soviet crystal bakers of all stripes would get thick from them.

      And all the same is written in the textbook of Russian history for the 10th grade published in 1995, and in 1998. And it was part of the school curriculum. But for some reason no one here knows.
  • Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 14 January 2021 21: 14
    +5
    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
    Excellent work. Thank you!..... hi
    I join! I am glad for the first publication of the distinguished Irina Frolova. Looking forward to reading new articles and research results. hi
    1. kalibr
      kalibr 15 January 2021 13: 25
      -1
      Quote: Reptiloid
      Looking forward to reading new articles and research results.

      Dima, but you can not wait, but open the RGASPI website and there it all is !!! But you need to open it, look ... search a little ... This is what kind of stress to the brain.
      1. RitaNik
        RitaNik 15 January 2021 14: 22
        +3
        In your opinion, the data of the RGASPI contain information from the closed archives of the NKVD, which are classified until 2044?
        1. kalibr
          kalibr 15 January 2021 14: 34
          0
          Quote: RitaNik
          In your opinion, the data of the RGASPI contain information from the closed archives of the NKVD, which are classified until 2044?

          How can I know this? I know what is open ... You can see photocopies of their documents on the web.
  • fiberboard
    fiberboard 15 January 2021 08: 13
    -2
    Well, yes, great work. Only Rokossovsky's knocked-out teeth, Korolev's prison term and Tupolev's work in a prison sharashka do not fit in with her. Well, even relatives living in Leningrad before the war told a lot about those times. And on the father's side, relatives who fell under the dispossession of kulaks shared their memories. I also remember the stories of old people in childhood. So there was no repression, so they shot people a little and that's it.
    1. Paul
      Paul 15 January 2021 14: 27
      +3
      I absolutely agree with you. Obviously, the ardent opponents of Stalin in attacks of Russophobia easily go from hundreds of thousands to tens of millions, but the number of 17 officers who were shot looks strange. And on the one hand, a joyful feeling arises from the fact that it turns out that the grandfathers / great-grandfathers were not stupid and bloodthirsty, on the other hand, there is a feeling that manipulation of data and deliberate presentation of indicators in a favorable light is inherent in all participants in the dispute. In general, some kind of paradox or dualism - my family suffered from dispossession, but at the same time they fought for the Motherland as if this Motherland was not a stepmother, but Mother. And the most important thing is that no one regrets anything and Tears poured over those who suffered during the change of the system and were proud of Stalin and I am proud.
      1. fiberboard
        fiberboard 15 January 2021 18: 34
        +2
        I completely agree with you about the number 17. It turns out very little. Even after the start of the war, a group of military commanders was shot, where Pavel Rychagov was. I remember when I was a child I was visiting a friend, when I went to visit relatives in a big city. His grandfather had been in the military since the late 20s. The photographs show the military of those years. I especially remember one group photo of some military courses, the year 1934-1936. And some faces are saddened by a needle. Then, boys, did not understand why. And the grandfather just sighed heavily and took away the album.
    2. Siberian54
      Siberian54 15 January 2021 15: 23
      +1
      About Korolev: For the waste of the owner's money, in the nineties he was simply dug in quietly ..
    3. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 16 January 2021 04: 20
      +1
      Quote: fiberboard
      So there was no repression, so they shot people a little and that's it.

      May I ask? But how were you born if your relatives were slightly shot?
  • neri73-r
    neri73-r 15 January 2021 09: 31
    0
    The article is good, correct, document-based, but not finalized. For comparison, the figures for the death penalty and convictions to various punishments for that period (for the same period) in the Western democracies of that time - Germany, USA, Great Britain, Japan - are not given. But then we need to see if they can point us to finger picking in different places!
    1. lwxx
      lwxx 15 January 2021 10: 33
      +1
      I would add to the article also statistics on sabotage and sabotage at work and in cx, as well as documents on the norms of ration and detention in camps. Then the kukan will break from the fans of the shot millions. But all the same, the numbers are terrifying, after all, these are our people.
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 15 January 2021 14: 21
        -3
        This article is one of many aimed at rehabilitation
        crimes of Stalin.
        I.V. Stalin is one of the greatest villains of the last century,
        who supported and developed the regime of the terrorist dictatorship,
        created by V.I. Lenin.
      2. Mordvin 3
        Mordvin 3 16 January 2021 04: 22
        0
        Quote: lwxx
        as well as documents on the norms of allowance and maintenance in camps.

        Two kilograms of bread at a railway construction site issued.
        1. lwxx
          lwxx 16 January 2021 09: 21
          0
          There are official certificates, there are regulatory documents, from which the exact number of prisoners for each year follows. There is also statistics on sabotage, I personally saw the documents for 1929-1933, so to speak, the main period of dispossession, the number has dropped significantly. So think about who is right and who is wrong ...
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Sergey79
    Sergey79 15 January 2021 15: 38
    +1
    I agree with you. If you are interested, there are works of Doctor of Historical Sciences. Milbakha V.S. on repressed in the Red Army of the Siberian VO and KBF. Very interesting applications. VMN was used quite rarely. Basically dismissal and labor camp. Intendants are about 30-40% of the total.
  • Doctor
    Doctor 16 January 2021 16: 09
    +1
    Excellent work. Thank you! The figures I have collected on the repression are not at hand (I have been doing this for a long time), but the order of the numbers is approximately the same hi

    What is the same? That 17 officers were shot? And what to do with these?

    https://ru.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Список_репрессированных_высших_командиров_и_начальников_Вооружённых_сил_СССР_(1935—1945)
  • Svetlana
    Svetlana 31 January 2021 14: 44
    0
    Thanks to the author and you for your rating. hi
  • yehat2
    yehat2 18 February 2021 11: 23
    +1
    let's talk about Putin's repression?
    how many hundreds of thousands ended up behind bars under his rule?
    compared to that time, the likelihood of going to jail is about the same.
    I just want to remind you that the very term "Stalinist repression" is not correct with the prefix mass.
  • Alexga
    Alexga 14 January 2021 18: 08
    +7
    Memorandum of the USSR Prosecutor General R.A. Rudenko, Minister of Internal Affairs of the USSR S.N. Kruglov and the Minister of Justice of the USSR K.P. Gorshenin on the number of those convicted by the OGPU collegium, NKVD troikas, Special meeting, military collegium, courts and military tribunals for counter-revolutionary activities in 1921-1954. " // GARF. F. 94016. Op. 26. D. 4506. LL. 30-37. Certified copy.

    There is no more accurate data in nature! Like it or not.
    1. antivirus
      antivirus 14 January 2021 19: 01
      +8
      used in propaganda for the destruction of the USSR and !!! privatization (this is the main thing!).
      including Solzhenitsyn.
      rejection of the "40 million repressed and tortured in the Gulag" will lead to a revision of the results of privatization. will not be given out of peacefulness. so as not to inflate "new repressions against effective"
    2. BAI
      BAI 14 January 2021 20: 26
      +4
      Rudenko himself thought what? The primary source is Colonel Pavlov's reference.
  • Crowe
    Crowe 14 January 2021 18: 09
    +45

    70% of Russian residents positively assess the historical role of Joseph Stalin.
    1. nnm
      nnm 14 January 2021 18: 18
      +16
      Citizens, yes. But the authorities are afraid of this. For comparison will not be in their favor at all
      1. Malyuta
        Malyuta 14 January 2021 18: 54
        +23
        Quote: nnm
        Citizens, yes. But the authorities are afraid of this. For comparison will not be in their favor at all

        The authorities are afraid of a fair reckoning for what they have done, and they dream about Dzerzhinsky and Stalin in mosquito dreams.
    2. Doctor
      Doctor 14 January 2021 19: 41
      -13%
      70% of Russian residents positively assess the historical role of Joseph Stalin.




      70 people, you wanted to say. With large armfuls. fellow

      1. Crowe
        Crowe 14 January 2021 20: 58
        +14
        No, not me, the people.
        "The level of Russians' approval of Joseph Stalin's activities has broken a historic record for all the years of research on this topic. This is evidenced by the Levada Center poll. According to the study, the total level of approval of Stalin reached 77 percent. It is noted that 51 percent of respondents refer to the leader of the Soviet state with admiration, respect or sympathy. At the same time, the share of those who declared respect for a politician increased by 12 percent. "

        1. Doctor
          Doctor 14 January 2021 21: 28
          -7
          No, not me, the people.

          People love to pop. Over a glass of whiskey. laughing

          However, only 5% of masochists agreed to live under Stalin.

          https://ria.ru/20190418/1552824590.html
          1. Sugar Honeyovich
            Sugar Honeyovich 15 January 2021 17: 12
            +3
            Quote: Arzt
            However, only 5% of masochists agreed to live under Stalin.

            And under Nicholas II -4%. And under Yeltsin - 3%. Everything is relative! wink
            But living under Stalin is one thing. And if Stalin lived NOW? "If Stalin now ran for president, they would vote for him .... 86,2%" https://ok.ru/alleya/topic/69573175145895 what
    3. Sergey Valov
      Sergey Valov 14 January 2021 21: 30
      +1
      Who counted these citizens?
  • nnm
    nnm 14 January 2021 18: 12
    +9
    Thank you so much. A very important and interesting article. Thanks to you, I have become interested in learning more about the number of officers who were shot. Intrigued, definitely.
    It is also bad that our modern state is still fanning myths about millions of executions. That it is not a movie filmed with the support of the state, then all the same - the commanders, all without exception repressed, the NKVD officers are just maniacs, and so on. Until now, we cannot honestly admit that, yes, our story was complex, multifaceted, but not at all so horrific, for which we are encouraged to pay and repent.
    642 980 - is this only Article 58, or according to all articles of the Criminal Code?
    1. Alexga
      Alexga 14 January 2021 18: 27
      +4
      642 980 is only Article 58, or according to all articles of the Criminal Code

      This figure is taken from the section - For "counter-revolutionary crimes" (Art. 58) from 1921 to February 1954. According to my information, it sounds like that.
      1. nnm
        nnm 14 January 2021 18: 28
        +1
        Thank you, colleague. Got it.
        It is a pity that this article cannot be added to the first lines again.
        1. Alexga
          Alexga 14 January 2021 18: 36
          +2
          If you are curious, here is a link to the book, this is an electronic version, but I have the book itself. I checked the applications with the documents, everything matches, they are interesting. https://coollib.com/b.usr/_Kollektiv_avtorov_Mir_russkoy_istorii.pdf
          1. nnm
            nnm 14 January 2021 18: 38
            +1
            Thank you, I will definitely read it. Although, I understand that Zhukov and Meisner are also often mistaken, I have already listened to everything they told about the repression. They also give figures comparable to the article.
            But I don't remember what they mentioned about the memorandum. A very important point. And as for the officers, it is true, "America discovered" for myself, I thought the number was much higher.
            1. Malyuta
              Malyuta 14 January 2021 18: 58
              +19
              Quote: nnm
              A very important point. And as for the officers, it is true, "America discovered" for myself, I thought the number was much higher.

              Yakovlevsko-Gorbachev's anti-Stalinist propaganda strongly dirtied people's brains with inventions about bloody Stalin and a sealed carriage.
        2. The comment was deleted.
        3. kalibr
          kalibr 15 January 2021 13: 28
          -1
          Quote: nnm
          Thank you, colleague. Got it.
          It is a pity that this article cannot be added to the first lines again.

          Open the RGASPI website - everything is there, all photocopies of documents ...
    2. DNS-a42
      DNS-a42 14 January 2021 18: 40
      +10
      Quote: nnm
      Until now, we cannot honestly admit that, yes, our story was complex, multifaceted, but not at all so horrifying, for which we are encouraged to pay and repent.
      Yeah, today it turns out that Stalin is good, tomorrow - Lenin, and the day after tomorrow the people will want to build communism. This is a nightmare for our bourgeoisie.
  • Krasnodar
    Krasnodar 14 January 2021 18: 13
    +3
    These numbers include revolutionaries, Leninists and Trotskyists, as well as other destroyers of the Russian Empire, who smashed a great country to please the West..

    So this is why under Comrade Stalin, who did not participate in the destruction of the Russian Empire in any way, Leninists (Joseph Vissarionovich was considered a Leninist) and Trotskyists. ))
    1. Malyuta
      Malyuta 14 January 2021 19: 02
      +14
      Quote: Krasnodar
      So this is why under Comrade Stalin, who did not participate in the destruction of the Russian Empire in any way, Leninists (Joseph Vissarionovich was considered a Leninist) and Trotskyists. ))

      IN AND. Lenin wrote a lot about opportunism and opportunists, as well as about the methods of fighting them, so comrade Stalin clearly followed Ilyich's behests, because the Trotskyists according to Lenin are opportunists. yes
      1. Krasnodar
        Krasnodar 14 January 2021 19: 31
        +3
        Greetings! hi
        Well, about Ilyich, Trotsky and Stalin, everything is much more complicated laughing Bronstein, who was a "political prostitute", Lenin once offered to head the government, which Davydych refused, but in the political testament of Comrade Ulyanov there was a very sharp criticism of Stalin. Iosif Vissarionych positioned himself as a faithful Leninist, and in the world revolutionary circles since the 30s of the last century (not to be confused with modern movies and young Western intellectuals-Trotskyists), Lyovushka is not separated from the Leninists, unlike Koba with his “Soviet Bolshevism ")). Mao, by and large, is also a Trotskyist (or Leninist) - the coexistence of different forms of economic management, the export of the (world) revolution, etc.
        1. Malyuta
          Malyuta 14 January 2021 19: 54
          +18
          Quote: Krasnodar
          but in the political testament of Comrade Ulyanov there was a very sharp criticism of Stalin. Iosif Vissarionich positioned himself as a faithful Leninist, and in world revolutionary circles this has been the case since the 30s

          Haha, Buddy! If you have read Lenin's PSS, then you should know that Ilyich has always advocated criticism, not criticism, but criticism this time.
          Evil tongues claim that there was no will and that's two.
          And the fact that Lenin constantly spoke directly about the regular cleansing of the pathia is not condemned at all. I don’t want to look now, but close to the test, it was said, "the party cannot be destroyed from the outside, the only danger is that it can destroy itself by betraying opportunists, fellow travelers, careerists and petty bourgeois bastards disguised as Bolsheviks ..." and it happened in 85-91, and the fact that Stalin was a Marxist and a selfless Bolshevik-Leninist is beyond doubt. yes
          1. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 14 January 2021 20: 03
            +4
            Marxist - yes, Leninist - I don't know laughing There was a will, Stalin himself commented on it in the sense (I quote from memory) "Lenin reproached me for being rude ... I want to apologize ... for not being rude enough with the enemies of the party." ))
            1. Malyuta
              Malyuta 14 January 2021 20: 14
              +15
              Quote: Krasnodar
              A Marxist - yes, a Leninist - I don't know laughing The testament was, Stalin himself commented on it in the sense (I quote from memory) "Lenin reproached me for being rude ... I want to apologize ... for not being rude enough with the enemies of the party." ))

              Well, you have confirmed my theses. I argue that Stalin was a very humane person, unlike Lenin and many members of the same party, otherwise he would not have given a dozen to the police, Bandera and other bastards, and he would have diluted the party ranks thinner. yes am
              1. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar 14 January 2021 20: 40
                +5
                The definition of humane or cruel does not apply to individuals of this scale - in the wrong conditions, at the wrong time, at the wrong historical moment hi
                1. Malyuta
                  Malyuta 14 January 2021 20: 58
                  +14
                  Quote: Krasnodar
                  The definition of humane or cruel does not apply to individuals of this scale - in the wrong conditions, at the wrong time, at the wrong historical moment

                  This is what I needed to, but did not finish. And with the fact that everything is tied to its own time, I completely agree.
                  1. Krasnodar
                    Krasnodar 14 January 2021 21: 12
                    +2
                    It was necessary not to allow June 41, that's what was needed - I mean the state of the army before the war with the Germans. This is what he really did not complete.
                    1. Malyuta
                      Malyuta 14 January 2021 21: 24
                      +20
                      Quote: Krasnodar
                      It was necessary not to allow June 41, that's what was needed - I mean the state of the army before the war with the Germans. This is what he really did not complete.

                      24 years in total, 24 years and November 7 The parade and festive columns go to die ... or to win, armed with Soviet weapons and Soviet equipment, and only 24 years, 6 of which are civil war, homelessness, hunger, and then the defeated Berlin.
                      Can you imagine the scale of individuals and countries?
                      And now ? 20 years down the drain, theft, money-grubbing and hopeless obscurantism ...
                      We lowered the boat, uryayaya, we pissed off the Soviet rocket, uryayayaya, we made a robot Fedor, which tore the skin of the ISS, uryayaya ...
                      ugly.
                      1. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 14 January 2021 22: 26
                        0
                        You have forgotten that Germany in the early 30s was not much better off. There was no ruin. But the Soviet resources, natural, human - too.
                        For 20 years:
                        1) 9 years after the collapse of the superpower began to pay salaries and pensions steadily;
                        2) Based on the results of 08.08.2008, they began to build an efficient army and achieved success in this;
                        3) The country has acquired a territorial acquisition in the form of a pleasant peninsula.
                        Well, at least patriotism appeared, before all the youth thought to get out of here and how to get rid of the army
                      2. Malyuta
                        Malyuta 14 January 2021 23: 09
                        +17
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        You have forgotten that Germany in the early 30s was not much better off. There was no ruin.

                        At the beginning of the century, Germany was not bast shoes and did not burn much splinters, did not drown at home in the black and livestock existed in their barn, not in senets.By the way, the prerequisites for the world revolution in 1918 were in full growth and Germany was definitely the first on this list.
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        For 20 years:
                        1) 9 years after the collapse of the superpower began to pay salaries and pensions steadily;

                        Are you serious? That is, you are now saying that a certain Germany of the 30s, in less than 12 years, created flying prototypes of space rockets, jet planes and almost an atomic bomb, while the Russian Federation only managed to pay steadily for 9, while having, practically the entire industrial, energy and raw material potential of the Soviet Union, and then after another 8 to defeat the whole Georgia, the most "great military power", half of whose citizens are on the territory of the Russian Federation. In addition, exactly 18 years before that, everyone together adored the film "Mimino", in the main role in which there was a future enemy, but was friends with an Armenian, our future friend.
                        Colleague, we do not have any achievements, and there is no patriotism, there is leavened putriotism, but there is no real one, which is "For the Motherland". hi
                      3. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 14 January 2021 23: 41
                        +7
                        1) That Germany was a developed country - I agree. But in the early thirties it suffered from an economic crisis, restrictions and indemnities. As for 1918, yes, there was the Bavarian Socialist Republic. The Germans themselves crushed her.
                        2) But the former RSFSR by 2000 was sold out and torn apart! This is not Hitler's Germany, rallied by the patriotism of the Germans humiliated by the Versailles Peace, it was a country of wild capitalism, without a national idea, State dough, etc. The comparison is fundamentally incorrect - two different situations, two different populations, with different goals and priorities. I'm not even talking about mentality. I saw fewer representative Mercedes in rich Bavaria than in poor, by Western European standards, Krasnodar. hi
                      4. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 16 January 2021 04: 28
                        0
                        Quote: Malyuta
                        Are you serious?

                        So he got rid of the army, went to Israel ... He was afraid to go to Chechnya.
                    2. Cherry Nine
                      Cherry Nine 15 January 2021 08: 45
                      +4
                      Quote: Krasnodar
                      before all the youth thought to get out of here and how to get rid of the army

                      )))
                      Actually, young people think and fall. At least in M ​​and SPB, but better, of course, for the curb.

                      Whoever has such an opportunity, of course.
          2. pmkemcity
            pmkemcity 15 January 2021 09: 28
            0
            Quote: Malyuta
            Well, you have confirmed my theses. I argue that Stalin was a very humane person, unlike Lenin and many members of the same party, otherwise he would not have given a dozen to the police, Bandera and other bastards, and he would have diluted the party ranks thinner.

            And when they wanted to squeeze his former overseer through exile, he wrote a letter to the leader himself, and the overseer was released. And this happened ...
        2. bober1982
          bober1982 14 January 2021 20: 50
          +1
          Quote: Krasnodar
          Marxist - yes, Leninist - I don't know

          I read your dialogue with Comrade Maluta with some interest.
          In my opinion, both of you are in confusion: Trotskyists, Leninists, Mao, opportunists, Lenin and Stalin, etc.
          Well, how, according to your reasoning: according to Lenin, they are Trotskyists, they are opportunists, or .... a Marxist, yes, a Leninist, I don’t know, or .... Mao is also a Trotskyist (or Leninist) and, like that, get confused can.
          After all, Lenin gave a clear definition of who the opportunists are, Trotsky can in no way fit into this category, even more - he was Lenin's main ally in the fight against them.
          And how can you distinguish between Marxists and Leninists, if the whole world knew the famous trinity of faces on a red cloth.
          Ah, Mao, what a Trotskyist he is, because he was an ideological Stalinist, that is, a Leninist and a Marxist.
          1. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 14 January 2021 21: 37
            0
            Ok, I will answer in order.
            Lenin is a Marxist, but the building of communism in a single country, and an industrially undeveloped one, does not correspond to Engels and Marx.
            Trotsky is a net Marxist. The world revolution, extended to industrially developed countries in a different way, according to Lev Davidovich, "socialism in Russia will be a temporary phenomenon."
            Stalin - building socialism in a single country. Is he a Lenin? In terms of the interpretation of the leader - well, probably. In terms of Marxism - also with a big but. Did Lenin want to order him in his circle? Judging by the will - no)).
            1. Avior
              Avior 14 January 2021 22: 17
              +5
              The unevenness of economic and political development is the unconditional law of capitalism. From this it follows that the victory of socialism is possible initially in a few or even in one, separately taken, capitalist country. The victorious proletariat of this country, having expropriated the capitalists and organized socialist production, would stand up against the rest of the capitalist world.
              "On the slogan of the United States of Europe"
              IN AND. Lenin

              The Soviet schoolboy and student studied this as proof that it was Lenin who was the first to put forward the idea of ​​building socialism in a single country. That did not cancel the revolutions in other countries, however.
              hi
              1. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar 14 January 2021 22: 27
                +1
                Socialism as a short transitional stage to communism)).
                1. Avior
                  Avior 14 January 2021 22: 50
                  +1
                  The German Social Democrats, who understood the uneven development of states in the world, back in the 19th century had the idea of ​​building an "isolated socialist state" that would peacefully coexist with capitalist ones in economic relations and enjoy the advantages of socialism and confirm them in the eyes of the whole world, which will make the world revolution is an unnecessary and unnecessary thing - capitalism will smoothly move through the market to socialism.
                  But Lenin and Stalin looked more soberly at the advantages of socialism and the idea of ​​a world revolution was not removed from the agenda and actively worked for it, which pitted the young, almost socialist country with the capitalist world and the 20th century passed in the struggle against the forceful spread of socialism across the planet.
                  hi
                  1. Krasnodar
                    Krasnodar 14 January 2021 23: 00
                    0
                    But in Germany it smoothly resulted in Bismarov's State Socialism (state socialism), according to the principles of which most modern capitalist countries of the West live. hi
                    As for Lenin - "there is such a party .." They took power and began to build socialism as a transitional stage to communism. Stalin decided to avoid the mess and thoroughly build socialism, at the same time creating a buffer of socialist satellites between the USSR and Western Europe. This was done more for security reasons than ideological ones. For example, he exchanged Greece for Poland, to the displeasure of Tito, who wanted to gain influence in the Balkans with Soviet hands. laughing And the expansion of socialism into the world of feudalism was started by Khrushchev, continued Brezhnev, who for some reason is considered a neo-Stalinist.
          2. Sergej1972
            Sergej1972 15 January 2021 07: 29
            0
            And Mao's Cultural Revolution, what's Stalin's in it? This is really closer to Trotskyism. In the PRC, Trotsky and Bukharin (who was an enemy of Trotsky) are studied, their works are published.
        3. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 14 January 2021 21: 31
          +9
          Quote: Krasnodar
          Marxist - yes, Leninist - I don't know laughing There was a will, Stalin himself commented on it in the sense (I quote from memory) "Lenin reproached me for being rude ... I want to apologize ... for not being rude enough with the enemies of the party." ))

          Good evening!
          According to "Lenin's Testament".
          Firstly, this is not one document, for several drafts and letters, which are usually called figuratively "will", but they are not.
          Secondly, Vladimir Ilyich "rode" through all his comrades-in-arms, and if objectively, then Bukharin and Stalin got the least of all! They are given both positive and negative traits, by the way, enough with "pepper" in "Lenin's way"!
          And thirdly, based on these drafts, it is clear that the leader was in an ideological impasse, which was reflected like a wicket in the confrontation between the tablets of Marxism and revolutionary reality in a single Soviet state!
          So, I advise you to read what was introduced into scientific circulation "under Lenin's testament", and then draw conclusions!
          Regards, Vlad!
          1. Malyuta
            Malyuta 14 January 2021 21: 55
            +14
            Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
            Based on these drafts, it is clear that the leader was in an ideological impasse, which was reflected as a wicket in the confrontation between the tablets of Marxism and revolutionary reality in a single Soviet state!
            So, I advise you to read what was introduced into scientific circulation "under Lenin's testament", and then draw conclusions!

            that's it! Only it was not an ideological dead end, the goal was already clear, another question, by what means. Besides, "Capital
            His Majesty,
            uncrowned,
            unwedded,
            announces
            subdued
            the power of a redneck ...
            When I
            summarize
            what has lived
            and rummaging through the days -
            the brightest where,
            I remember
            same -
            Twenty fifth,
            first day......
            From this banner
            from each fold
            again
            alive
            Lenin calls:
            - Proletarians,
            build
            to the last one with a grip!
            Slaves
            unbend
            backs and knees!
            Army of the proletarians
            get slim!
            May the revolution be healthy
            joyful and fast!
            It -
            single
            Great War
            of all,
            what history knew. "V. Mayakovsky.
          2. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 14 January 2021 22: 28
            +2
            Maybe what is commonly called "Lenin's political testament"? ))
    2. Motorist
      Motorist 14 January 2021 23: 49
      +3
      Quote: Krasnodar
      in the political testament of comrade Ulyanov there was a very harsh criticism of Stalin

      I heard about this will back in the 80s, but I never saw it (to my shame). Can you tell me where his [will] can be read? No jokes or sarcasm!
      1. Krasnodar
        Krasnodar 15 January 2021 00: 10
        +3
        Full collection cit., 5th ed., vol. 45, p. 346
        Letters to the Congress
        More:
        https://ria.ru/20101216/309403217.html
        Raising the question of leading the party in the event of his death, the seriously ill leader of the party in his letter of will gave characteristics to the leaders of the CPSU (b) - Stalin, Trotsky, Zinoviev, Kamenev, Bukharin and Pyatakov, evaluating not only their political activities, but also some personal qualities ...

        In his characterization of Stalin, Lenin emphasized that moment that caused him serious concern. He expressed doubts that Stalin, having become General Secretary of the Central Committee and having concentrated a great deal of power in his hands, would be able to use it correctly, and suggested that they consider the question of appointing another person as General Secretary, "who in all other respects differs from Comrade Stalin only by one advantage , namely, more tolerant, more loyal, more polite and more attentive to comrades, less capriciousness, etc. " (Complete collection of works, 5th ed., Vol. 45, p. 346)

        There and about the rest there
  • Sergey Valov
    Sergey Valov 14 January 2021 21: 32
    +2
    This Stalin did not participate in the destruction of RI ??? am
  • paul3390
    paul3390 14 January 2021 18: 23
    +17
    What is there to argue - now put yourself in the place of a leader who would set himself the goal of putting in order the new RF. Destroy theft, corruption, nepotism .. Stop exporting money abroad, return justice to the people, carry out a new industrialization, destroy the results of the type of privatization, dispossess the thieves, well, you know, the list is long ...

    And - how will you do it? Yes, really without executions, plantings and expulsions ?? And - on an industrial scale, because we have accumulated parasites for 30 years - Mom, do not worry .. What other way is there? I can't see him point blank. So Comrade Stalin did not seem to see .. Well, do not frighten them on TV like the current president, menacingly waving his finger from the screen? We were going to do something, after all, and not its appearance?

    Let everyone try it on for themselves, and honestly say - he will manage without repression, or not. Only honestly .. And if so, where is he going to do with all the nonesh trash that has covered Russia ..
    1. Crowe
      Crowe 14 January 2021 18: 46
      +17
      The Chinese diplomat spoke out somehow already on this matter
      “I don't know why the Russians don't do anything about corruption, but I know what they did here. Corruption on the scale of Russia can be dealt with in a month, it is not difficult. It hurts us from China to look at people who spit on their great past and, because of this, are deprived of a great future.
      We are proud of our shooting ranges because there is buried everything that prevents a great state from becoming - corruption, theft, external control, enemy propaganda, cosmopolitanism, debauchery, exploitation of workers, human rights, thoughtless consumerism.
      We are done with this and therefore now claim to be the first in the world!
      How would it have turned out for you? I do not know, but I know for sure that you will not be the second China as long as you are ashamed of the feat of your state security during Stalin's time! "
      So he was kicked out immediately and accused
      in "an attempt to interfere in the internal affairs of the country, undermining state foundations and the current choice of the Russian people in favor of democratic values ​​and international standards for the protection of rights and freedoms."
      What foundations did he undermine, and the choice of the Russian people is perhaps in “corruption, theft, external management, exploitation of workers, violations of human rights?” What did he say, according to our officials, rudely trampled the saints
      "democratic values ​​and international standards for the protection of rights and freedoms"?
      1. Malyuta
        Malyuta 14 January 2021 19: 35
        +18
        Quote: Crowe
        The Chinese diplomat spoke out somehow already on this matter

        Great quote! From the outside, we certainly look ugly. The power is understandable, but the people who admit it all ...
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 14 January 2021 22: 42
          +2
          Quote: Malyuta
          Quote: Crowe
          The Chinese diplomat spoke out somehow already on this matter

          Great quote! From the outside, we certainly look ugly. The power is understandable, but the people who admit it all ...

          What about the fact that in socialist China a third of pensioners do not see pensions at all, and there is only communist protection for local oligarchs by the CPC elite? laughing
      2. Cherry Nine
        Cherry Nine 15 January 2021 08: 49
        -4
        Quote: Crowe
        The Chinese diplomat spoke out somehow already on this matter

        It's hard to believe that there are such stupid Chinese diplomats, but in principle anything can happen in the Chinese Foreign Ministry. And not only Chinese.

        They are proud of the shooting ranges, well, well done.
      3. Evgeny Goncharov (smoogg)
        Evgeny Goncharov (smoogg) 15 January 2021 21: 50
        0
        Indicate the authorship, hehe. The site is, so to speak, twinned.

        https://panorama.pub/28343-vyslali-kitajskogo-diplomata.html
    2. DrEng527
      DrEng527 14 January 2021 19: 02
      -2
      Quote: paul3390
      Destroy theft, corruption, nepotism.

      was it really destroyed at the IVS? bully
      Quote: paul3390
      dispossess the kulaks, well - and you yourself know, here is a long list ...

      and then starve and buy grain and clothes for gold around the world? wink
      By the way, it was the IVS that robbed banks, not dispossessed ones ... request
      1. paul3390
        paul3390 14 January 2021 19: 11
        +4
        Liberal nonsense with a schiza is even lazy to comment on, so these stupid theses are already sick of it ..
        1. Malyuta
          Malyuta 14 January 2021 19: 14
          +15
          Quote: paul3390
          Liberal nonsense with a schiza is even lazy to comment on, so these stupid theses are already sick of it ..

          Do not pay attention, these are special trolls, they crawl out on such articles.
          1. Sergey Valov
            Sergey Valov 14 January 2021 21: 33
            -6
            You are right, you need to calm down.
    3. Undecim
      Undecim 14 January 2021 19: 20
      +7
      now put yourself in the place of the leader
      Who immediately starts with the leader. To begin with, put yourself in the role of a simple citizen, to whom a neighbor wrote an anonymous letter that he scolded the Leader.
      1. paul3390
        paul3390 14 January 2021 19: 24
        +5
        Well, yes, or a cart to the tax office, that he kind of rents out an apartment illegally, taxes at night, and in general - he lives beyond his means ..

        You want to repeat any nonsense .. Obviously, if under Stalin they were really imprisoned for this, we would really have 100 million in camps .. Where have you seen a country where no one is scolding the government ??
        1. Undecim
          Undecim 14 January 2021 19: 31
          +6
          No comment. He is absent.
      2. Gardamir
        Gardamir 14 January 2021 20: 15
        0
        First, put yourself in the role of a simple citizen, to whom a neighbor wrote an anonymous letter that he is without a mask
    4. Alf
      Alf 14 January 2021 19: 49
      +2
      Quote: paul3390
      now put yourself in the place of a leader who would set himself the goal of putting in order the noneshnyaya RF. Destroy theft, corruption, nepotism .. Stop exporting money abroad, return justice to the people, carry out a new industrialization, destroy the results of the type of privatization, dispossess the thieves, well, you know, the list is long ...

      And - how will you do it? Yes, really without executions, plantings and expulsions ?? And - on an industrial scale, because we have accumulated parasites for 30 years - Mom, do not worry .. What other way is there? I can't see him point blank. So Comrade Stalin did not seem to see .. Well, do not frighten them on TV like the current president, menacingly waving his finger from the screen? We were going to do something, after all, and not its appearance?

      1. Doctor
        Doctor 14 January 2021 20: 01
        +1


        You haven't forgotten about ROA? In the entire history of Russia, there have not been so many collaborators.

        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 14 January 2021 22: 43
          0
          ROA and HiVi and policemen hi
        2. Alf
          Alf 15 January 2021 18: 42
          +2
          Quote: Arzt
          You haven't forgotten about ROA? In the entire history of Russia, there have not been so many collaborators.

          About 1,5 million of the inhabitants of the USSR went over to the side of Germany, while the population of the USSR was 170 million, that is, one in a hundred. Not much..
      2. Cherry Nine
        Cherry Nine 15 January 2021 08: 54
        +2
        An empty and politically vain person who knows nothing about Russia and is not seriously interested in it. The only thing he is really interested in is the advertising that he can receive upon returning to his homeland. We are ashamed of him in front of our fellow diplomats, but not for his personal qualities or shortcomings ... but for his obvious unfitness for the post. For us, accredited employees of the foreign policy service, his assignment as our chief seems to be a gesture of contempt by the president for us and for our efforts. "

        During his stay in Moscow, Davis, together with his wife and with her money, on a large scale and for a pittance, bought expropriated works of art from the Soviet government, including paintings by Levitsky and Bryullov, Faberge eggs and much more. The Soviet government allowed him to take out all art objects from the country without paying customs duties

        By the decree of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR of May 18, 1945, Joseph Davis, the only Western diplomat in the history of the USSR, was awarded the Order of Lenin with the wording: “For successful activities that contribute to the strengthening of friendly Soviet-American relations and contributed to the growth of mutual understanding and trust between the peoples of both countries ". One of the organizers and honorary chairman of the National Council of American-Soviet Friendship


        Senator McCarthy was right about everything.
  • PROVINCIAL
    PROVINCIAL 14 January 2021 18: 32
    +1
    I do not agree with the conclusions made in the article. 1. As a LEADER, Stalin acted in the only possible way. 2. Kinks on the PLACES exceeded ALL that is possible. Removed (killed) -teachers, professors, people with the ability to think alternatively. And not just combat-ready commanders. I do not belittle the importance of the country's leadership in the pre- and post-war years. I'm talking about the fact that for the sake of the then nomenclature destroyed the mind of the nation.
    1. Malyuta
      Malyuta 14 January 2021 19: 04
      +18
      Quote: PROVINCIAL
      Removed (killed) -teachers, professors, people with the ability to think alternatively. And not just combat-ready commanders

      Stop writing Yakovlev's nonsense.
      1. PROVINCIAL
        PROVINCIAL 12 February 2021 19: 14
        0
        Where is nonsense? Didn't they jail academicians on denunciations? Teachers? Professors? They were imprisoned only for accidentally expressed words. Or am I wrong? What experience, knowledge and ideas did these people have? Include critical thinking. I will reveal a secret - the world is not only black and white. P.S. it's scary that today white is declared black and everyone believes it, and vice versa.
    2. Alf
      Alf 14 January 2021 19: 55
      +9
      Quote: PROVINCIAL
      , people with the ability to think alternatively.

      Are these?

      Or like that?
      1. mr.ZinGer
        mr.ZinGer 15 January 2021 08: 21
        +2
        And it's good that they are. Everything is known by comparison.
      2. Mordvin 3
        Mordvin 3 16 January 2021 04: 33
        +1
        What disgusting hari ... crying
      3. PROVINCIAL
        PROVINCIAL 12 February 2021 19: 15
        0
        Not. Not like that. These are clowns.
  • DNS-a42
    DNS-a42 14 January 2021 18: 33
    +9
    These numbers include revolutionaries, Leninists and Trotskyists, as well as other destroyers of the Russian Empire, who smashed the great country to please the West.
    Well this should be given out. fool
    Apparently, Iosif Vissarionovich, being a loyal Leninist, revolutionary and enemy of the Republic of Ingushetia, forgot to shoot himself.
  • DrEng527
    DrEng527 14 January 2021 18: 36
    -3
    The article is interesting, especially the beginning, where full analogies with the notorious V. Suvorov suggest themselves ... wink
    It is a pity that the author also writes complete nonsense:
    1) "The victims of the Civil War were also included here" - can the author recall the years of the Civil War? If they did, then a small part ... request
    2) The author sweetly forgot about the exiled: 2,4 million fists and 2 million different nations .... Or robbery and exile with families is, in the author's opinion, not repression? hi
    "In comparison with the mythical opponents declared" tens of millions of people shot in the USSR "- this is at least five hundred-fold exaggeration." - the author is changing the concept, for her 20 executions a year is not much, but if you compare it with RI? In which for such crimes in a century, about 000 were executed in total request
    As for the officers, the author of Mila forgot Operation Vesna, in which about 3 military experts were injured. request
    1. Vikxnumx
      Vikxnumx 14 January 2021 18: 58
      +5
      2 million different nations ...

      And according to the law, for cooperation with the invaders, they had to shoot and plant!
      What a merciless humanity !!!
    2. Unknown
      Unknown 15 January 2021 05: 15
      +2
      Quote: DrEng527
      2) The author sweetly forgot about the exiled: 2,4 million fists and 2 million different nations .... Or robbery and exile with families is, in the author's opinion, not repression?

      Exiled fists, an interesting topic. What is a fist? Here is an interesting characteristic .......... Aleksey Sergeevich Ermolov, who in 1883-1892 was the director of unreported collections of the Ministry of Finance, and in 1892 he was appointed assistant minister of finance, wrote in his book of 1892 (dedicated to the famine of 1891-92 ):
      In close connection with the question of the collection of state, zemstvo and social taxes that fall on the peasant population, and, one might say, mainly on the basis of these penalties, a terrible ulcer has developed in our rural life, in the end it corrupts and takes away the people's welfare - these are the so-called kulaks and usury. ... Once owing money to such a usurer, the peasant almost never can get out of the noose that entangles him and which for the most part brings him to complete ruin. Quite often the peasant is already plowing and sowing and gathering grain only for the kulak. [5] This is the opinion of the tsarist official. For example, the notorious Tsapkov family, a vivid example of the current kulak. We must not forget that the Russian peasantry was not white and fluffy, as they are now trying to imagine. , and human life was not much appreciated, plus the almost complete illiteracy of the population. Yes, there were excesses, settling scores, but just human envy, innocent people suffered, but mistakes were corrected, justice could be found. Restrictions were removed from the families of the dispossessed, their rights were restored, and they settled in rapidly growing cities, becoming full citizens of the USSR. As for the peoples. Name at least one people who completely disappeared under Soviet rule? For example, the book by the famous writer Cooper is called THE LAST of the Mohicans. Aren't you confused by the last word? Ask yourself the question, where did this people go? Why did he disappear completely, to the last person? The indigenous population of the USA and Canada, almost everything was destroyed, whole small and large tribes of Indians disappeared, and they were destroyed by all then known methods. The account there goes to millions of people and real, not mythical as in the USSR. And interestingly, in the part of America where the Spaniards were, more Indian tribes survived than in the one where there were English-speaking colonizers. And throughout the Western world, complete oblivion in this matter, silence, but like the USSR and the so-called repression, always. But in the USSR ........ More than 100 nations and nationalities lived in the USSR. All of them, regardless of their number, are distinguished by their distinctive national characteristics. Most of them have their own statehood - from an autonomous region to a union republic. The USSR includes 15 union republics, 20 autonomous republics, 8 autonomous regions and 10 autonomous okrugs. So no need to talk about the resettlement of peoples.
      1. DrEng527
        DrEng527 15 January 2021 12: 13
        -3
        Quote: Unknown
        its end, which corrupts and takes away the people's welfare, is the so-called kulaks and usury

        nonsense, you transfer the situation from RI to the USSR request by the way - why do you believe the tsarist official so much bully
        Quote: Unknown
        the notorious Tsapkov family, a vivid example of the current fist

        look at examples from Sholokhov's letter to the IVS ... Sholokhov himself described this in the novel gently, as Nagulny knocked out grain with a revolver ...
        Quote: Unknown
        The indigenous population of the USA and Canada, almost everything was destroyed,

        aha, and in the USA blacks broadcast ... hi
        Quote: Unknown
        So no need to talk about the resettlement of peoples.

        those. at IAVS not resettled? bully
        1. Unknown
          Unknown 15 January 2021 19: 57
          +4
          Quote: DrEng527

          nonsense, you are transferring the situation from RI to the USSR by the way - why do you believe the tsarist official so much

          You start talking, in your opinion the kulak in Soviet times differs from the tsar's kulak, a strange judgment. So the opinion of the tsarist official coincides with the opinion of Comrade STALIN ............. They hope that the kulak, which has grown up, who speculates, who has the opportunity to recoup on other cultures and who hides their grain surplus - they hope that this very kulak will give us its grain surplus voluntarily at our procurement prices. Are they crazy? Is it not clear that they do not understand the mechanics of the class struggle, do not know what classes are? But do they know how the kulaks scoff at our workers and at the Soviet government at village gatherings organized to strengthen grain procurements? Do they know such facts when our agitator, for example, in Kazakhstan, for two hours persuaded bread holders to hand over bread to supply the country, and a fist came out with a pipe in his mouth and answered him: “And you dance, boy, then I'll give you two poods of bread"
          Quote: DrEng527
          look at examples from Sholokhov's letter to the IVS ... Sholokhov himself described this in the novel gently, as Nagulny knocked out grain with a revolver ..

          How do you like to refer to the classics of the Soviet period, the question is, apart from the Virgin Lands Raised, what else did you read from the works of M.A. Sholokhov, for example, Don stories, published in 1925. That's where it is written about the world eaters. And as for excesses and other leftist overtures, there was an article, "Dizziness with success," where all the disadvantages of dispossession were put on display. ...
          Quote: DrEng527
          aha, and in the USA blacks broadcast ...

          Why do you speak so dismissively about the "citadel of democracy"? See will not understand correctly ..
          Quote: DrEng527
          those. at IAVS not resettled?

          No need for such stupid questions, the peoples were not resettled, but evicted for specific actions during the Second World War. And they were not exterminated at the root. They could not name the people who were destroyed by the Soviet power, because there is no such thing.
          1. DrEng527
            DrEng527 16 January 2021 13: 34
            -3
            Quote: Unknown
            in your opinion the fist in Soviet times differs from the tsarist fist, a strange judgment

            by no means, my judgment is correct - after the GW, everything changed a lot in the village ...
            Quote: Unknown
            voluntarily at our procurement prices. Н

            I highlighted the key - it was a robbery of peasants at the expense of price scissors!
            Quote: Unknown
            for two hours persuading bread holders to hand in bread

            and did not try to just buy at a reasonable price or exchange for goods?
            Quote: Unknown
            were put on view. ...

            or maybe it was necessary to restore socialist legality and punish the excesses? bully
            In the letter, Sholokhov gives the opposite facts ...
            Quote: Unknown
            Why do you speak so dismissively about the "citadel of democracy"? See will not understand correctly ..

            are you so cowardly?
            Quote: Unknown
            but evicted for specific actions,

            those. were the peoples to blame, not specific people? Everything is clear with you - you are a real Stalinist and a Marxist ... the latter was the first to talk about bad peoples, by the way, Russians are among them ...

            Quote: Unknown
            They could not name the people that were destroyed by the Soviet power, because there is no such thing.

            Glory to SV, she only resettled from the Crimea to the Volga region, taking away houses and so on, and did not kill ... you would be in this ... hi
            1. Unknown
              Unknown 16 January 2021 16: 12
              +3
              Quote: DrEng527
              By no means, my judgment is correct - after the GW, everything changed a lot in the village ..

              The village has changed a lot, only after collectivization, the fist is the fist. He said read MA Sholokhov, if you like to refer to him.
              Quote: DrEng527
              I highlighted the key - it was a robbery of peasants at the expense of price scissors!

              As a foreign compassionate of the Russian peasantry, I will refer to a novel, or something ........... Oh, you boot! I - it is clear why - it is necessary to rebel, because I am a nobleman! My father had about five thousand acres of arable land and almost eight hundred forests. Me and others like me, it was deeply insulting to go from my country and somewhere in a foreign land in the sweat of my brow, as they say, to get my daily bread. And you? Who are you? Bread grower and bread eater! Dung beetle! Few of you sons of bitches, Cossacks, were spanked for the civil war!

              - So we have no life! - objected Yakov Lukich. - Tax has been poured, thinness is taken away, there is no one-man life, otherwise, of course, why are you, noblemen, and all kinds of similar ones, are needed. I would never commit such a sin in my life!

              - Just think, taxes! As if in other countries the peasantry does not pay taxes. Pays even more!

              - Must not be.

              - I assure you!

              - Why, you can't know how they live there and what they pay?

              - I lived there, I know.

              - So you came from abroad?

              - What is it to you?

              - Out of interest.

              - You will know a lot - you will grow old very soon. Go and get some more vodka.

              Source: http://sholohov.lit-info.ru/sholohov/proza/podnyataya-celina/1-glava-xxiii.htm
              Read the novel more carefully.
              Quote: DrEng527
              or maybe it was necessary to restore socialist legality and punish the excesses?
              In the letter, Sholokhov gives the opposite facts.

              Socialist legality was restored, how could it be without it, and punished, and it is necessary to give an answer to MA Sholokhov ....... with this I want to write you a few words.

              I thanked you for the letters, as they expose the sore of our party-Soviet work, reveal how sometimes our workers, wishing to bridle the enemy, accidentally hit friends and sink to sadism. But this does not mean that I agree with you in everything. You see one side, you see it well. But this is only one side of the matter. In order not to be mistaken in politics (your letters are not fiction, but solid politics), you need to review, you must be able to see the other side. And the other side is that the respected grain growers of your region (and not only your region) carried out "Italian" (sabotage!) And were not averse to leaving the workers, the Red Army, without bread. The fact that the sabotage was quiet and outwardly harmless (without blood) does not change the fact that the respected grain growers, in fact, waged a "quiet" war with the Soviet regime. War to starvation, dear comrade. Sholokhov ...

              Of course, this circumstance in no way can justify the outrages that were committed, as you assure us, by our workers. And those responsible for these outrages must be duly punished. But it is still clear as daylight that respected grain growers are not such harmless people as it might seem from afar.

              Well, all the best and shake your hand.

              Yours I. Stalin.

              6.V.33 g.
              https://stalinism.ru/kollektivizatsiya/perepiska-i-stalina-s-m-sholohovyim-o-raskulachivanii.html в
              Quote: DrEng527
              are you so cowardly?

              I am not in RF, I live what, and you are abroad.
              Quote: DrEng527
              those. were the peoples to blame, not specific people? Everything is clear with you - you are a real Stalinist and a Marxist ... the latter was the first to talk about bad people, by the way, Russians are among them.

              Flattered to be called a Stalinist, for which peoples were evicted
              State Defense Committee
              Comrade Stalin I.V. 1310 May 1944, XNUMX
              Bodies of the NKVD and the NKGB carry out work in Crimea to identify and seize enemy agents, traitors, accomplices of the Nazi occupiers and other anti-Soviet elements.

              As of May 7 this year arrested such persons 5381 people.

              5995 rifles, 337 machine guns, 250 machine guns, 31 mortars and a large number of grenades and rifle cartridges were illegally stored by the population.

              By 1944, more than 20 thousand Tatars deserted from the Red Army units, who changed the Motherland, switched to serve the Germans and fought against the Red Army with weapons in their hands ...

              Considering the treacherous actions of the Crimean Tatars against the Soviet people and based on the undesirability of the further residence of the Crimean Tatars on the border outskirts of the Soviet Union, the NKVD of the USSR submits for your consideration a draft decision of the State Defense Committee on the eviction of all Tatars from the Crimea.

              We consider it expedient to resettle the Crimean Tatars as special settlers in the regions of the Uzbek SSR for use in work both in agriculture - collective farms, state farms, and in industry and construction.
              https://stalinism.ru/repressii/za-chto-stalin-vyiselyal-narodyi.html
              Quote: DrEng527
              Glory to SV, she only resettled from the Crimea to the Volga region, taking away houses and so on, and did not kill ... you would be in this ...

              In 1944-45, one of my grandfathers fought East Prussia, and took Koeningsberg, while others helped the Germans and sat in the mountains, and along the way they burned villages in his native Bryansk region, as part of the punishers, and the other caught the same lack of In Lithuania, right up to 1950, it’s a pity I didn’t finish the job, and I have no pity for them. It’s in my west crocodile tears pour, but I don’t need it.
              1. DrEng527
                DrEng527 18 January 2021 12: 46
                -2
                Quote: Unknown
                The village has changed a lot, only after collectivization, the fist is the fist. He said read MA Sholokhov, if you like to refer to him.

                you don’t know the banal and don’t want to know - even to read Sholokhov - see Frol Torn ...
                Quote: Unknown
                Read the novel more carefully.

                I'm talking about this - what brought a strong peasant closer to a nobleman? bully
                Quote: Unknown
                and it is necessary to give an answer to M.A. Sholokhov ..

                that's the essence of it - the IVS, in fact, recognized the intention to rob the peasants ... request
                Quote: Unknown
                quiet "war with Soviet power

                why were they? bully
                Quote: Unknown
                and you are abroad.

                is not Eburg in Russia? bully you are funny ...
                Quote: Unknown
                Considering the treacherous actions of the Crimean Tatars against the Soviet people

                Ahmet Khan Sultan is also a traitor? recourse You can recall how many traitors there were among the Ukrainians and Russians (well, obviously more than 20) - why were they not exiled?
                Quote: Unknown
                and I have no pity for them.

                according to your words it turns out. that your grandfather fought for the children to be exiled?

                Quote: Unknown
                then in my west crocodile tears pour, but I do not need.

                scoop you are mental ... hi
                1. Unknown
                  Unknown 19 January 2021 07: 39
                  +2
                  Quote: DrEng527
                  you don’t know the banal and don’t want to know - even to read Sholokhov - see Frol Torn ...

                  It doesn’t come to pass that without reading the novel, you don’t need to refer to it. The fist of modern times, Titus Borodin. When you read, then link.
                  Quote: DrEng527
                  why were they?

                  The Soviet power has long been gone, and the liberal sufferers for the Russian people are still waging a war with it. From how I got it, then.
                  Quote: DrEng527
                  is not Eburg in Russia? you are funny ..

                  In RF there are three "Burgas", who are they from? Or will you be from the German, Burg, it seems.
                  Quote: DrEng527
                  Ahmet Khan Sultan is also a traitor? One can recall how many traitors were among the Ukrainians and Russians (well, obviously more than 20) - why were they not exiled?

                  ON. Hagen Lieutenant General, German by birth, awarded the Order of Lenin. So the Germans are not really to blame? Then let the Poles, Czechs, knelt down and repent, before the Sudeten Germans, the Silesians, for the eviction, especially before the children. Well, with the traitors of Russian origin, they sorted out the cases, rewarded, though who was found.
                  Quote: DrEng527
                  according to your words it turns out. that your grandfather fought for the children to be exiled?

                  The meaning of Russian speech does not reach. I specify when my grandfathers fought against the Germans, the grandfathers of the evicted, fought for them, participated in punitive operations. After liberation from the Germans, they sat in the mountains until better times. One must be a complete fool not to understand who supplied them with everything they need. Well, the children had to be taken away from their mothers and where? Maybe in your opinion, in the European way, to children's concentration camps? Create Salaspils? All peoples who were evicted and still live in the Russian Federation.
                  Quote: DrEng527
                  scoop you are mental.

                  Yes, I considered myself and still consider myself a citizen of the USSR.
                  1. DrEng527
                    DrEng527 19 January 2021 16: 27
                    -2
                    Quote: Unknown
                    When you read, then link.

                    sorry for you wink
                    Quote: Unknown
                    and liberal sufferers for the Russian people are still waging a war with her

                    just telling the truth to the neophytes. what they want in the USSR bully
                    Quote: Unknown
                    In R.F there are three ,, burga ,,

                    Eburg alone, you are illiterate ... bully
                    Quote: Unknown
                    Or will you be from German,

                    Quote: Unknown
                    Yes, I considered myself and still consider myself a citizen of the USSR.

                    get it there hi
                    Quote: Unknown
                    Well, with the traitors of Russian origin, we sorted out the cases, rewarded, though who was found.

                    So you are an extreme Russian nationalist - a Nazi? The Germans can be exiled, and the Russians can be selectively looked for to blame?
                    Quote: Unknown
                    grandfathers of the evicted, fought for them, participated in punitive operations

                    is it all? even Ahmet Khan Sultan? request
                    Quote: Unknown
                    All peoples who were evicted and still live in the Russian Federation.

                    they were rehabilitated, i.e. admitted the wrongful mistake of the IVS, but it does not reach you, you are definitely a Nazi ... request
                    1. Unknown
                      Unknown 19 January 2021 21: 07
                      +1
                      Quote: DrEng527
                      sorry for you

                      And you are not.
                      Quote: DrEng527

                      just telling the truth to the neophytes. what they want in the USSR

                      Your truth is not worth a dime, keep it with you.
                      Quote: DrEng527
                      Eburg alone, you are illiterate.

                      So, too, you do not shine with literacy. Peter ....... Ekaterin ... Shlissel ... and all the burgers in RF. stray.
                      Quote: DrEng527
                      get it there

                      No need to be rude, not mature enough, otherwise I will insult you to the point of impossibility.
                      Quote: DrEng527
                      is it all? even Ahmet Khan Sultan?

                      Explained about him, does not come from the word at all.
                      Quote: DrEng527
                      they were rehabilitated, i.e. admitted the wrongful mistake of the IVS, but it does not reach you, you are definitely a Nazi.

                      Unfortunately, the current government has rehabilitated many who are not worth it. And the Soviet only gave amnesty, and this is a big difference.
                      1. DrEng527
                        DrEng527 20 January 2021 12: 48
                        -2
                        Quote: Unknown
                        Your truth is not worth a dime, keep it with you.

                        and we live in a free country, not the USSR! and I can write whatever I think is necessary!
                        Quote: Unknown
                        Peter ....... Ekaterin ... Shlissel ... and all the burgers in RF literate stray.

                        I wrote Eburg! Peter has an abbreviation for SPB! if you are illiterate, then learn! bully
                        Quote: Unknown
                        No need to be rude, not mature enough, otherwise I will insult you to the point of impossibility.

                        see in the mirror - act like a teenager! I note that against my background you are either an illiterate teenager, or an elderly senile ... hi
                        Quote: Unknown
                        Explained about him, does not come from the word at all.

                        in the mirror! you justify the exile of EVERYONE, without clarification of guilt - therefore you are a Nazi!
                        Quote: Unknown
                        Unfortunately, the current government has rehabilitated many who are not worth it.

                        Are you showing your illiteracy again? the peoples who were sent were rehabilitated even during the Soviet era! To school - an ignoramus!
                        Quote: Unknown
                        The Soviets only granted amnesty, and this is a big difference.

                        how illiterate you are ... bully you don't even know the difference between amnesty and rehabilitation! bully
      2. Mordvin 3
        Mordvin 3 16 January 2021 04: 41
        +1
        Quote: Unknown
        What is a fist?

        I was delighted when the smart figure of Abraham Kuzmich Sergeev appeared in the aisle. Raising his hand above his head, he, like a banner, carried a piece of paper in it and spoke as he walked:

        - That's right here Bail Ksenofontych! He is smarter than all of us! .. Our Soviet power is calling for a bright life, and we are some kind of sumnevams! .. Take my paper, Sorokin! We are joining the collective farm with the whole family! .. In!

        But just before the scene, Abraham was stopped by the chairman with a sharp gesture:

        - Wait, wait, Kuzmich, do not rise to us! ..

        - Well, why? - taken aback by Abraham.

        “Why the hell did you buy another camel on the third day?” - Sorokin answered the question with a question.

        - It’s boring to Bukhara alone in the yard, so I bought a partner for him. Will the collective farm be worse off if I bring not one but two camels to the common yard? - Abraham grinned, still not believing that they were not joking with him, that he had made a fatal mistake for himself.

        Someone (it seems, Karpushka Kotunov) shouted from the audience:

        “And how many humps does a new camel have, tv Kuzmich?”

        “This two-humped one,” Abraham answered willingly and cheerfully, in tone with the one asking,

        - What a fool you are, Avrashka! - the same voice was heard (now everyone saw that it belonged to Karpushka). - I would have bought an isho odnogorbov, you see, everything would have cost you in an amicable way. Two humps - no matter where! And three yes, plus your own - that's too much, Avrasha, it's already twenty-two! For four humps you, my dear, will have to be deceived and sent where they follow ... to Solovki, al else where ... together with Yashka Krutyakov and Timoshka Efremov, together with everyone, we will only be here for dispossession and deportation! .. Understood, you fool such?

        https://e-libra.me/read/535312-drachuny.html
        laughing
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Inturist
    Inturist 14 January 2021 18: 40
    +5
    Good evening !
    The question to the document "Prosecutor's Memorandum" is why the numbers in it are inscribed in ink, and not printed like the rest of the text.
    1. nnm
      nnm 14 January 2021 19: 06
      +2
      What's the problem ? The text was typed, and handwritten at the end at the last moment, after specifying the number.
    2. BAI
      BAI 14 January 2021 20: 29
      +5
      Secret mode. The typist couldn't know these numbers. The usual practice of secret records. This is how I executed documents myself. The typist types what is possible, the rest is by hand.
      Colonel Pavlov in general carried out his inquiries by hand. And Lieutenant Colonel Maksimov - in small ranks, already knew how to use a typewriter and typed everything himself.
      I didn't print it myself. did not know how (and who could in the late 80s?), and this was prohibited, stamped documents were printed only in the typing bureau.
      1. Sergey Valov
        Sergey Valov 14 January 2021 21: 05
        -4
        Don't write nonsense about typing. If you didn’t know how to type, it’s out of laziness. Almost any engineer in the 70s and 80s could type on a typewriter, life forced me.
        1. mat-vey
          mat-vey 15 January 2021 16: 53
          +1
          Quote: Sergey Valov
          Almost any engineer in the 70s and 80s knew how to type on a typewriter, life forced me.

          And you can get the decoding "life forced"?
          1. Sergey Valov
            Sergey Valov 15 January 2021 17: 31
            0
            In any department / workshop / bureau there was a woman secretary who always had a typewriter. From time to time, almost every engineering technician needed to write a letter / certificate / description, etc. and it was almost impossible to persuade the owner of the typewriter to put on one or two pages of text, her usual answer was - sit down and type yourself. And everyone was printing - engineers, candidates, and doctors. She herself printed multi-page reports, documents of her immediate supervisor and, in the rarest cases, for someone when she was asked to do so.
            1. mat-vey
              mat-vey 15 January 2021 17: 36
              +1
              Quote: Sergey Valov
              it was almost impossible to persuade the owner of the typewriter to pull one or two pages of text

              How unlucky you were)).
              1. Sergey Valov
                Sergey Valov 15 January 2021 17: 53
                0
                Does anyone type on your computer for you? wink On a typewriter is not more difficult.
                1. mat-vey
                  mat-vey 15 January 2021 17: 59
                  0
                  Quote: Sergey Valov
                  Does anyone type on your computer for you? wink It's not more difficult on a typewriter.

                  And this has to do with it? I knew more than one typist who was just typing for "both candidates and doctors" had a stable additional income, but outside of working hours ...
                  And if the document was stamped, then all the carbon copies had to be handed over.
                  1. Sergey Valov
                    Sergey Valov 15 January 2021 20: 25
                    0
                    I originally wrote - "stretch one or two pages of text." Dissertations and articles are another topic.
                    1. mat-vey
                      mat-vey 16 January 2021 05: 11
                      +1
                      Quote: Sergey Valov
                      I originally wrote

                      "Almost any engineer in the 70s and 80s could type on a typewriter."
  • Constanty
    Constanty 14 January 2021 18: 40
    +6
    Of all the arrested military leaders were sentenced to be shot only 70 officers.
    And only 17 were shot
    .


    Although it can be assumed that the aforementioned "tens of millions" are in fact a gross exaggeration, only 70 officers sentenced to death in 1937-1939 are also gross exaggerations, on the contrary. It will not be difficult to draw up a personal list of the executed military leaders. And this will be a much larger number.
  • tatra
    tatra 14 January 2021 18: 41
    +13
    The enemies of the communists live in some kind of their Through the Looking Glass, and are unable to adequately perceive either themselves or reality. Here, WITHOUT the slightest reason, they seriously imagined that they are better than the communists and their supporters, and more than they deserve to own the country. Here, they are screaming from their Perestroika that "Stalin beheaded the army." And what, someone is seriously capable of declaring that when Putin fired Serdyukov, and other employees of the Ministry of Defense, by this Putin "decapitated the army"? ALWAYS in reality - if people are fired - no matter what the reasons, their positions are immediately taken by others.
  • rocket757
    rocket757 14 January 2021 18: 44
    +3
    The history of our country is complex, but equally great at all times.
    The current part of the story will be, will be completed and will become a logical continuation of the entire previous history of RUSSIA!
  • Poetry
    Poetry 14 January 2021 18: 44
    -6
    My great-grandfather was dispossessed in the early 30's. He was taken from the house of the NKVD by the Schnicks, and no one else ever saw him. The wife was widowed, eleven children were orphaned. I grieve for all the people who got into this batch. After all, behind each unit is a human life ...

    First, they removed those who were in the lead.
    Those who were dangerous were also eliminated.
    Then it was the turn of people with brains.
    They, too, were soon carried forward with their feet.

    Those who shouted about brotherhood and freedom,
    They abruptly fell silent, filling their mouth with water.
    All who were rich became hicks.
    Even the noble one became a creeping reptile.

    The one who was strong lost his strength,
    Even the loudly vociferous no longer was shouting.
    The optimists painted a grim picture
    The brave leaped into the swamp, plunged into the mud

    Thirsty did not expect rain anymore
    They were all very afraid. The wrath of the leader.
    Even the people who shook the foundations were afraid.
    The talkers were silent, not saying a word.

    Even the brave now, they just gave a drape.
    Because everyone was afraid. Leave the stage.
    They were all afraid. Slander and vile denunciation.
    People were afraid. Suffocate to bloody diarrhea.

    People were afraid to tell some kind of anecdote.
    They will tell if, and then it turns out: not the one.
    They were afraid of wet autumn and blissful spring,
    They were afraid even to sleep and dream ...

    Children were afraid for their parents, mothers for children.
    All the priests were afraid, and obviously not devils! ..
    All then they were afraid, not of the rage of the Gods.
    They were afraid of the "black funnel" and the sound of boots.

    The teachers were afraid, even the schoolboy was afraid.
    Everyone had a terrible fear in the abdomen ...
    Then the little hands and even the brave man shook,
    When he saw the features of a mustachioed face.

    Someone was shot. Someone was crushed.
    Thank you for everything, Comrade Stalin.
    Don't be afraid to live. Don't even be afraid to die ...
    And be afraid that this does not happen again.

    December 2020. Kingisepp.
    1. nnm
      nnm 14 January 2021 19: 03
      +9
      I don’t think that pathetics and even personal grief should be substituted for attempts to find the truth in our own history. You can endlessly talk about the situation of the common people before the Revolution, the class struggle, its reasons and validity. And everyone will have something to say. Yes, any life is valuable and its loss is a tragedy. But the article is about numbers. yes, there are fates behind them. And no one says that those times were white and fluffy. But you must have the courage to study your history impartially and honestly.
      For watering ourselves with g is absolutely not the right way.
      1. tasha
        tasha 15 January 2021 08: 11
        -2
        What are the correct words you wrote. I especially liked:
        For watering ourselves with g is absolutely not the right way.
        What about people who are convinced that all the millions of repressed are enemies of the people, traitors, bandits and terrorists? Can I water the others?
        1. nnm
          nnm 15 January 2021 09: 36
          +2
          Why write something like that so unfounded ?! Show in this thread at least one person who would write something like that!
          1. tasha
            tasha 15 January 2021 09: 57
            0
            You unpleasantly surprised me ...
            1. nnm
              nnm 15 January 2021 09: 58
              +1
              Well, what to do - it happens. But, as I understand it, you will not give specific examples?
              To be honest, I can't even remember what someone would say that ALL victims of repression were deservedly punished.
              1. tasha
                tasha 15 January 2021 10: 01
                -2
                I won't. What for? Everything is in sight, everything is on the surface. Yes, you just read the comments ...
                1. nnm
                  nnm 15 January 2021 10: 12
                  +5
                  I read it. There are no such comments. Nobody says that 700 thousand were justly shot. But is it not true what some write about - that some of these people deservedly received a sentence?
                  And you can and should talk about personal tragedies for a very long time. But this does not require emotions, but documents.
                  I will give a simple example (sorry, I forgot the last names, therefore without them). There was at one time a German Life Medic who took part in medical examinations called up in the Republic of Ingushetia for 1 MV and later he wrote in his memoirs that during examinations, a huge number of people were with traces of whip blows on their backs !!! And this was already the 20th century !!!!!
                  Therefore, when it comes to kulaks and class struggle in principle, one should not initially divide everything into black and white. Our story is much more complex. And you need to accept her as she was. Draw conclusions, avoid mistakes, but you certainly shouldn't look at it one-sidedly.
                  1. tasha
                    tasha 15 January 2021 10: 35
                    -1
                    Don't surprise me any further.
                    We are carefully looking at my comment. "What about people who are convinced that all the millions of repressed are enemies of the people, traitors, bandits and terrorists?"

                    Even in the article it is written: "These figures include revolutionaries, Leninists and Trotskyists, as well as other destroyers of the Russian Empire who smashed a great country to please the West. The victims of the Civil War were also included here. And all the traitors who served Hitler during the Great Patriotic War. war.
                    Of course, among them were outright bandits, Bandera, deserters and even terrorists. "Where is at least one phrase about innocent convicts?
                    "but you certainly shouldn't look at her one-sidedly." Gold words!
    2. EvilLion
      EvilLion 15 January 2021 08: 27
      +2
      And your great-grandfather thought about other people's children when he gave a bag to a neighbor who came to bow in the spring with an agreement to return it in the fall? But I suspect that was not even the case. The NKVD'snik after all in the village does not know who the fist is, the locals decide. The villagers will just come and say to get out. So your great-grandfather, most likely, was arrested and shot for specific banditry.
      1. EvilLion
        EvilLion 15 January 2021 08: 42
        0
        And if someone minuses, well, everyone had grandfathers, everyone loves them, but this does not mean that your grandfather is white and fluffy, and the crimes were committed by other people's grandfathers.
  • Rakovor
    Rakovor 14 January 2021 19: 05
    0
    That is, the author wants to say that during the entire period of repression only 17 officers were shot? Come on. Of course I understand everything, but why so brazenly lie and distort the facts?
    1. Sergey Valov
      Sergey Valov 14 January 2021 21: 08
      -1
      "Lie, and the more absurd your lie is, the sooner Goebbels will believe in it" - I can not vouch for the accuracy of the translation, but the meaning is conveyed accurately.
  • Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I 14 January 2021 19: 15
    +1
    As the English say: "" There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics "! (There are three types of lies: lies, blatant lies and statistics ...) The author, referring to statistics, convinces that the repressed were: Of these, 32 people were sentenced to death for all 642 years. 980 people were sentenced to detention in camps and prisons for a term of 2 years or less. And 369 220 people - to exile and deportation. ... To the death penalty - "only" 642980 ... But maybe the Author will then give other figures ...: 1.How many died in "camps and prisons" from hunger and cold, the lawlessness of the camp administration and the lawlessness of criminals, the absence of due measure and proper quality of medical care, which is beyond the strength of other people to work ... 2. How many people died on the way to the place of "exile and deportation" in "teplushki" without heat, filled with "human mass"? 3.How many people died in unequipped places of "exile and deportation" upon arrival?
    1. EvilLion
      EvilLion 15 January 2021 08: 31
      +4
      And you can find out why we should feel sorry for everyone who was imprisoned in the 30s? In the Gulag, 2/3 always accounted for ordinary criminals. My grandfather sat four times. There was a thief. Of the remaining "political", a significant part is also not for leaflets, although this is already an article, but for specific terrorism and similar criminality for polit. motives.

      You find out, by the way, how many inmates are in the United States now.
      1. Nikolaevich I
        Nikolaevich I 15 January 2021 08: 58
        +1
        Quote: EvilLion
        by the way, how many inmates are in the US now.

        "Wonderful" counter argument! As in the "Soviet" joke: "And you have blacks lynched!" ... lol
        In the camps, it was not the criminals who were most adapted to the "abnormal" conditions of life that died in the first place; using, sometimes, concessions from the administration; united by thieves' "laws" ...
        1. EvilLion
          EvilLion 15 January 2021 09: 49
          +4
          Again. For people like you. 2/3 of the inmates of the camps were held under the usual criminal articles. As for fitness, even now there are far more people who have sat down for a serious accident, property crimes, or drunken murder than professional criminals. And the division in any zone between thieves and men is clear.

          Well, the death rate in the camps was high only during the war years. The rest of the time, it cannot be said to be very different from the background for these age groups. A person can have a heart attack in the camp, you know what will happen.

          However, as far as I know, the grandfather, unfortunately, is already deceased, and left the family when his mother was 13, leaving the Kaliningrad region for his native Far East. Then I saw him live only twice, so I know about it already in the retelling. When he was taken to the camp during wartime, everyone was simply tied up in the ship's hold for several days, so they didn't give him food, then they gave him out on the spot, the EU convicts pounced on him, but his stomach had already lost the habit. Not all survived. After the war, half of the stomach was cut out for my grandfather. True, he was still the character, and he was going to live up to 70 at least, as a result, the plan was greatly overfulfilled, he came 2 years before his death, a few years ago, still quite a strong man, but stomach cancer still achieved its goal.

          In this story, I am interested in the moment that there are norms and rules for transporting prisoners, but they were grossly violated, which led to the death of part of the contingent. I suspect that this was done deliberately in order to steal part of the ration allocated for the convicts, and then smear death at times. In wartime, even for workers it is tight with supplies to think about prisoners. Their mortality rate will inevitably be high, and under this case, several dozen more people can be killed to cover up ordinary theft. In peacetime, this would hardly have rolled over, since they would have come to investigate. The only question is, what does Stalin have to do with it? Common criminality. A similar thing with the same success could have happened in tsarist times, and most likely it did.
          1. kalibr
            kalibr 15 January 2021 14: 05
            0
            Quote: EvilLion
            Well, the death rate in the camps was high only during the war years. The rest of the time, it cannot be said to be very different from the background for these age groups. A person can have a heart attack in the camp, you know what will happen.

            And what documents are you referring to?
          2. Nikolaevich I
            Nikolaevich I 15 January 2021 15: 29
            0
            Well, what do you answer? A cultured person will not say: "Fuck you !!! ..." He will say: "Leave, at the end ..."
  • Ryazan87
    Ryazan87 14 January 2021 19: 16
    +8
    Disruption of the covers with another comical aplomb))) Once again, I remembered a wonderful quote:
    "... If a monstrous legend arises, an anti-monstrous one will appear. A counter-legend. Even more monstrous. If I burn a hundred people, then in a hundred years some will claim that I have burned a thousand. Others - that I have not burned a single one. In five hundred years if this light survives for so long, for every three people who talk about pits, torture and bonfires, there will be at least one jester who will argue that there were no pits, they did not commit tortures, the Inquisition was full of mercy and just, and if she punished, it was like a father admonishing a naughty child, and all talk about bonfires is nothing more than fiction and heretical deception. " (from)
    However, I didn't have to wait 500 years :))
  • swan49
    swan49 14 January 2021 19: 18
    +5
    Concisely:
    Special part of the Criminal Code of the RSFSR 1926
    Chapter One
    STATE CRIMES
    Counter-revolutionary crimes
    58-1. Definition of counter-revolutionary activity.
    “Counter-revolutionary is any action aimed at overthrowing, undermining or weakening the power of the workers 'and peasants' councils and ... the governments of the USSR, union and autonomous republics or to undermine or weaken the external security of the USSR and the main economic, political and national gains of the proletarian revolution; any actions that damage the military might of the USSR, its state independence or the inviolability of its territory; espionage on the side of the enemy, flight or flight abroad. "
    58-1a. Treason to the Motherland.
    58-1b. Cheating on the part of military personnel.
    58-1c. Escape or flight abroad of a soldier.
    58-1y. Failure to report on the part of a soldier about an impending or committed treason.
    58-2. An armed uprising, any action with the intention of forcibly severing any part of its territory from the Soviet Union, or an invasion in order to seize power.
    58-3. Contacts with a foreign state for counter-revolutionary purposes.
    58-4. Providing assistance to the international bourgeoisie, which does not recognize the equality of the communist system, seeking to overthrow it.
    58-5. Inclination of a foreign state ... to a declaration of war, armed intervention in the affairs of the USSR or other hostile actions.
    58-6. Espionage
    58-7. The undermining of state industry, transport, trade, money circulation or the credit system, as well as cooperation, committed for counter-revolutionary purposes.
    58-8. Act of terrorism.
    58-9. Causing damage to the system of transport, water supply, communications and other structures or state and public property
    58-10. Propaganda or agitation containing a call to overthrow, undermine or weaken Soviet power.
    58-11. Any kind of organizational activity aimed at preparing or committing counter-revolutionary crimes provided for in this chapter.
    58-12. Failure to report a reliably known, planned or committed counter-revolutionary crime.
    58-13. Active actions or active struggle against the working class and the revolutionary movement, manifested in a responsible or secret (agents) position under the tsarist system or counter-revolutionary governments during the civil war.
    58-14. Counter-revolutionary sabotage.
    1. EvilLion
      EvilLion 15 January 2021 08: 32
      +1
      Most of it is included in the modern Criminal Code of the Russian Federation.
      1. swan49
        swan49 15 January 2021 12: 42
        +1
        No 58-4 and 58-13. And the consequences are milder. Last year, on the initiative of Mashkov, for the idea of ​​punishing an attempt to seize the country's territory, they introduced not just the Criminal Code, but the Constitution. And you say "37th year". Everybody's thoughts are the same as then and now. I recently read the 1919 case. If I didn’t know that this is one of the ancestors, I would also have passed a similar sentence.
      2. swan49
        swan49 15 January 2021 12: 53
        0
        No 58-4 and 58-13.
  • Engineer
    Engineer 14 January 2021 19: 36
    +7
    At first I thought that it was Kharaluzhny who issued two rates per shift.)

    Why is the article blatantly bad?

    Because he stupidly uses the "straw scarecrow" technique. The West and the Liberals and Tens of Millions Shot by "Stalin personally"

    For those who are in the tank, the "liberal" point of view is currently represented by the "Memorial" society - 1.1 million people were shot. With this figure and need to argue.

    The dead were left behind the scenes in the camps, in exile and in transit. Convicted for political reasons, but not specifically for counter-revolutionary activities. This, however, has already been pointed out by other commentators. And in the title of the article, by the way, there is repression... This means we remember those who were injured, deported, etc.

    In general, there is little left - drag Puchkov_Goblin to VO and he will explain the repression in a language understandable to the majority of the local audience. Everyone will be delighted.

    And no, the goblin is expensive now, the budget is not enough.
    1. EvilLion
      EvilLion 15 January 2021 08: 39
      +3
      Well, if "Memorial" writes, then, obviously, there was definitely no more. The truth is, how Memorial's opinion differs from Vasya Pupkin's opinion is not very clear to me. When Solzhetsnitsyn wrote about tens of millions of the same dispossessed people, and then his followers are poked at what he exaggerated by an order of magnitude, they simply declare that it is good that there were fewer of them. Qualitatively, in their opinion, it is one and the same. Although 15 million dispossessed and 1.8 million are very different numbers, it is obvious that in the USSR, with its population, every third peasant in the countryside could not be a fist, but every 30th is completely.

      As for the word "repression", then you stole - you were imprisoned. That is, they were repressed for an action prohibited by law.
    2. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 15 January 2021 09: 43
      -2
      The pretentious coda is especially shrill laughing
      But the common Russian people should know, remember, preserve and repeat this harsh truth about the history of our Motherland.

      "Simple", yes, sir ... I remembered "Monday ..." by the Strugatskikh:

      - Of course, Comrade Junta, as a former foreigner and church worker, is allowed
      at times to be mistaken, but you, comrade Oira-Oira, and you, Fedor Simeonovich, you are ordinary Russian people!
      “P-stop demagoguery! - Finally, Fyodor Simeonovich exploded. “H-how are you not ashamed to say such nonsense? W-what kind of a s-simple person am I? And what kind of word is that - simple? These are simple d-doubles! ..
      (C)
    3. nnm
      nnm 15 January 2021 10: 18
      +4
      For those who are in the tank, the "liberal" point of view is currently represented by the "Memorial" society - 1.1 million people were shot. With this figure and need to argue.

      For what reason? Was the "memorial" conducting scientific research using the techniques and methods of historical science, conducting an open discussion of the results, etc.? I don’t remember that. Why should true historians stoop to the level of engaged populists ?! There is a discussion at the level of the scientific community, and there is a real platform. And such as "memorial" can endlessly cite documents, facts, but they are indifferent. They have a different goal.
      Let's go on about such clowns as Solonin, Suvorov, etc., and we will spend time and energy on their PR. No. Everything becomes easier. For example, how Isaev publishes one monograph "Antisuvorov" in which he carries this character face down on the table with facts and documents. Everything, period.
      1. Cherry Nine
        Cherry Nine 15 January 2021 14: 48
        0
        Quote: nnm
        Why should true historians stoop to the level of engaged populists ?! There is a discussion at the level of the scientific community, and there is a real platform.

        Who is this? Is this RVIO, or what, Medinsky?
        1. nnm
          nnm 15 January 2021 15: 37
          +1
          I gave you the name of the historian above. If you are not familiar with his works, then this only indicates the level of your knowledge in relation to the subject of discussion. No more.
          1. Cherry Nine
            Cherry Nine 15 January 2021 16: 06
            0
            Isaev? Where is the repression and where is Isaev? What do I care about the relationship between two propagandists on the subject of WWII, Rezun and Isaev?
            1. nnm
              nnm 15 January 2021 17: 34
              -1
              Is Isaev a propagandist? Thank you, have fun))))
              Excuse me, but the "memorial" is not a bunch of the most notorious propagandists, for an hour?
              This is the same "memorial" that amicably defended its member - PEDOFIL Dmitriev, am I not confusing?
              Yes, those "historians" ...
              1. Cherry Nine
                Cherry Nine 15 January 2021 18: 32
                +1
                Quote: nnm
                This is Isaev - propagandon

                You are not aware of his place of work, excuse me?
                Quote: nnm
                "memorial" is not a bunch of the most notorious propagandists

                What do I care about that? I am interested in what materials there are on the topic. It is not Isaev who will pick them up, not his question, not his period, not for this he receives an enhanced ration.
                Quote: nnm
                PEDOFILA Dmitrieva, I don’t confuse you?

                Be careful with the capsule. You see, I’m not at the age to interest PEDOFIL, so I don’t care about this party. Who loves children, who dismembers girls, historians are intricate people.

                Oh yes. Dmitriev is naturally innocent.
                1. nnm
                  nnm 15 January 2021 18: 47
                  +5
                  1. I see. The Institute of Military History means propaganda. OK. Would you please deign to give at least 3 examples from his speeches or works on which you made a similar decision?
                  2. Well, of course .... how convenient - if you are an employee of the Institute of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, then you can paste the labels with tremendous ease, but as an employee of Memorial - so right away - but who cares where he works !!! The law of the identity of logic has been violated - but it’s okay, and that’s fine!
                  3. Tell me, what, someone defended this dismemberment with foam at the mouth in the same way as the "memorial" rushed to the defense of PEDOFIL - Dmitriev?
                  4. Yes, of course "innocent" - dozens of photos of naked underage stepdaughter, but of course, how can people with bright faces be guilty of anything ?! They are like Caesar's wife ...
                  1. Cherry Nine
                    Cherry Nine 15 January 2021 19: 34
                    -1
                    Quote: nnm
                    The Institute of Military History means propaganda

                    Is IVIMO the only place in Russia where the state pays money FOR THE TRUTH? I am not ready to accept such a hypothesis.
                    Quote: nnm
                    if you please at least 3 examples

                    I will not deign. There is no mood to arrange a showdown over his statements. Consider this my value judgment, you may not share it.

                    And by the way, if a person is propogandon as a whole, this does not mean that he cannot correctly state certain facts. Again, I will leave this thesis without development.
                    Quote: nnm
                    "Memorial" - so immediately - but what's the difference where it works !!

                    Again. I do not differentiate between the employees of IVIMO, RVIO or Memorial. I am interested in what work has been done. If the topic of repression is of interest only to the Memorial, we will go to see the Memorial.
                    There was a question for you, with what joy you drew Dr. Guillotin to repression. He does not deal with this topic, as far as I am aware. The only "historian" you know?
                    Quote: nnm
                    Tell me, what, someone defended this dismemberment with foam at the mouth in the same way as the "memorial" rushed to defend PEDOFIL - Dmitriev?

                    What difference does it make to me? If Sokolov was talking about the Napoleonic period, shouldn't I give a damn about his relationship with the young ladies? It's not my daughter to marry him off.
                    Quote: nnm
                    of course "innocent" - dozens of photos of naked underage stepdaughter

                    So what?
                    1. nnm
                      nnm 15 January 2021 19: 40
                      +3
                      Quote: Cherry Nine
                      Is IVIMO the only place in Russia where the state pays money FOR THE TRUTH? I am not ready to accept such a hypothesis.

                      You can accept or not accept anything. I asked a simple question - give 3 examples of his "propaganda"! I see a lot of words from you, but 0 facts.
                      Judging by the rest of the verbiage (sorry, it is impossible to find another definition), your whole "dialogue" is not reduced to the exchange of facts and well-grounded arguments, but to the most banal paper-pounding (or, as it is now more correct, screen-writing), so excuse me, colleague, but interest in I completely lost the continuation ...
                      But let me guess - 3 examples of Isaev's "propaganda" shouldn't be expected from you ....?
                      1. Cherry Nine
                        Cherry Nine 15 January 2021 19: 48
                        -2
                        I am not going to arrange a party meeting for you with an analysis of the personal affairs of Isaev and Dmitriev.

                        Above you threw about
                        Quote: nnm
                        There is a discussion at the level of the scientific community, there is a real platform

                        Is there anything to tell from the life of the scientific community, or so, by the way, had to? Not the author, I hope, was meant by the community?
  • Aviator_
    Aviator_ 14 January 2021 19: 40
    +6
    The article is good. But, apparently, the age of the author is not too great, so he freely dispenses with the years
    A little later, in the 1960s-1970s, the same tactic with screams about gigantic repression and the cult of personality

    The cries of repression stopped in the fall of 1964 after the removal of Khrushch Kukuruzny, what has the 70s got to do with it?
    But in the 1980s and 1990s, the same principle was revived again.

    Here, too, carelessness - the screams began by the end of the 80s and continue to this day.
    1. Sergej1972
      Sergej1972 15 January 2021 07: 44
      0
      I read books and newspaper magazine articles mentioning the repressions published in the second half of the 60s. And sometimes they were mentioned in the 70s. What makes you think that after the removal of Khrushchev everything stopped? A number of people were rehabilitated after the removal of Khrushchev. Look at university textbooks on the history of the CPSU, published in the 70s. It talks about repressions, about the decisions of the 20th and 22nd congresses. And in Brezhnev's "Tselina" there is a negative reference to the so-called "anti-party group."
      1. Aviator_
        Aviator_ 15 January 2021 08: 17
        +2
        Feel the difference - yelling and mentioning. Repression was never denied in the 70s. Another thing is whether they were justified, or unfounded. Further development of events suggests that they were more than justified. There were no such screams about unfoundedness, which were from the mid-50s to the mid-60s, and then somewhere from 87 to the present. At the end of the 60s, there was a letter to Brezhnev from the creative liberals-six-iderasts about the inadmissibility of revising the decisions of the XX Congress of the CPSU, they were afraid that after the failed Khrushchev experiments and the failed Kosygin-Lieberman reform of 1965, there would be a return to Stalin's plans. But Brezhnev did not do anything at all, and the country crept into stagnation with subsequent collapse.
  • Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
    Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 14 January 2021 19: 43
    +4
    In the foreseeable future, there will be no dot over the "i" in this matter. This is a matter of political conjuncture, not dry statistics. And this is the main cynicism of this "repressive" fuss. It's like with the Khmer Rouge - the Vietnamese claim that Pol Pot cut 3 million, and the Americans, referring to the CIA, talk about 150 thousand. And the explanation for this very sickly delta is very simple - the pendulum of sympathy swung in the direction of this butcher, and he became "our bitch's son" for the "light-faced" ones. Not good, but nonetheless.
    1. Sergej1972
      Sergej1972 15 January 2021 07: 45
      +1
      Although 150 thousand in any case is a monstrous amount for such a small country.
  • Undecim
    Undecim 14 January 2021 20: 10
    +14
    Of all the arrested commanders, only 70 officers were sentenced to death.
    And only 17 were shot.

    You can not try to refute one lie with another, even more frank.
    In 1937 - 1939, two marshals were shot, four commanders of the first rank, two flagships of the first rank fleet, one army commissar of the first rank, ten commanders of the second rank, one flagship of the second rank fleet, fourteen army commanders of the second rank, fifty-one corps commanders not counting the military commanders rank below. All numbers are checked against biographies. Autoress - it is immoral to cheat, even for selfish purposes.
    1. Engineer
      Engineer 14 January 2021 20: 31
      +2
      Not an auto press, but an author.
      Ignorance of feminitives will soon be punished)
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 14 January 2021 20: 35
        +3
        A large dictionary of synonyms says they are synonyms.
  • BAI
    BAI 14 January 2021 20: 12
    +1
    Speaking about "repressions", it is appropriate to recall the certificates of Colonels Pavlov, Sirotin and Lieutenant Colonel Maximov.



    1. BAI
      BAI 14 January 2021 20: 14
      +1
      Here's another interesting document
  • ccsr
    ccsr 14 January 2021 20: 33
    -3
    The article is sensible and most importantly reveals the exact numbers of the repressed in the Red Army. Although I will not say that I have found something new for myself, because I have been familiar with these figures for a long time, but nevertheless, thanks to the author for such a work, where everything that most people need to know about "Stalinist repressions" is collected in a concentrated form.
    And as a paradox, if we compare how many people died in the 90s after the collapse of the USSR in the form of premeditated murders, gang squabbles, suicides from disorder, etc., it turns out that these losses exceed all Stalinist purges in terms of the number of repressed. And that's not counting the interethnic massacre and the war in the Caucasus.
  • Alexander Greene
    Alexander Greene 14 January 2021 22: 13
    +2
    I invite everyone on the issues of repression of the 30s to watch the video with P. Balaev's interview at the link

    https://p-balaev.livejournal.com/1173967.html?utm_source=vksharing&utm_medium=social

    and all his subsequent videos devoted to the same issue, in which he convincingly proves that there was no outburst of terror in 1937-1938. it was not that this is a large-scale anti-Soviet falsification.
    On the same site, he exposes many documents thrown into the archives, which we believe.
    By the way, he claims that Zemskov did not rummage in any archives, he only voiced the conclusions of the anti-Soviet commission A.N. Yakovleva. ...
    P. Balaev estimates the repressions of 37-38 years only at 140 thousand.
  • Alexey Lantukh
    Alexey Lantukh 15 January 2021 00: 28
    -3
    Every human life is a universe. However, from the point of view of a person's value for society, the role and qualifications of a person are also important. Have the commissar been shot? I don't think this is a great loss. But the execution of the commander of a division, regiment or corps is a completely different case. Before the war, he was replaced by former company commanders who did not really know how to competently command their units. This is one of the reasons for the defeat at 41. The kulaks were sent to Siberia - here's the famine for you in 33-34 years.
    1. Mavrikiy
      Mavrikiy 15 January 2021 05: 01
      -4
      Before the war, he was replaced by former company commanders who did not really know how to competently command their units. This is one of the reasons for the defeat at 41.
      M. Simonov read a lot? The reason for the defeats is that Stalin did not shoot the traitors in the army.
      The kulaks were sent to Siberia - here's the famine for you in 33-34 years.
      belay Working cattle did not have to be slaughtered during collectivization. fool
    2. mat-vey
      mat-vey 15 January 2021 16: 26
      +1
      Quote: Alexey Lantukh
      In his place before the war

      And experienced commanders were put in place of the newly created divisions?
  • tasha
    tasha 15 January 2021 04: 41
    +2
    The article has no value. All the numbers are known, nothing new, one unnecessary pathos and a hackneyed argument that all the repressed are conspirators, traitors, bandits and crooks ... In the comments, in principle, everything is written.
    The quality of elaboration and understanding by the author of the essence of the material can be judged by such an attempt to replace the concepts:
    In one of his interviews on the eve of the final of his last battle with Russia

    An interesting passage from Irina Frolova:
    And the saddest thing.
    Of all the arrested commanders, only 70 officers were sentenced to death.
    And only 17 were shot.

    If not 17 were shot, but all those arrested - would that be fun?

    It's only the beginning...
  • Mavrikiy
    Mavrikiy 15 January 2021 04: 48
    0
    But these are far from the "tens of millions of those shot" that are so persistently trumpeted to us from the West, isn't it?
    Why go so far. When we have our own Gozmans, Svanidze and Sytins ... angry
  • Sergej1972
    Sergej1972 15 January 2021 07: 49
    +3
    I cannot congratulate the author. The material is tendentious, unprofessional. Take, for example, the statement about only 17 commanders who were shot in 1937-1939. Or the desire to evenly spread the number of people shot over the years. While forgetting about the unprecedented surge in executions in 1937-1938.
  • RUSS
    RUSS 15 January 2021 07: 53
    -12%
    You won't wash a black dog to white
  • EvilLion
    EvilLion 15 January 2021 08: 23
    +1
    I, of course, wildly apologize, but, in my opinion, this is just scuffling the book "The Great Slandered War" by Igor Pykhalov, obligatory for everyone to read.
  • Moskovit
    Moskovit 15 January 2021 08: 44
    +3
    The article is not only weak, but full of lies and fraudulent facts. First, there is an attempt to measure the average temperature in the hospital: the number of repressed is spread over the total number of years, including 53 and 54 (!). How many were shot and imprisoned on political charges during the NEP era? Why not tell the lovely lady how many people were shot and condemned in what year. The spring will immediately compress and the picture will not be so rosy.
    Secondly, I was struck by the blatant lies about the executed officers. If only about 400 people from the highest command staff were shot. Why is rank data not given? In general, for such a "research" during Stalin's time, the author would have received a term for such work.
  • high
    high 15 January 2021 09: 05
    -5
    There is no need to bleach the killer, as the front-line writer Viktor Astafiev wrote: Comrade Stalin burned the Russian people and Russia in the fire of war.
    Due to the destruction of the command staff, by the end of 1941 the Red Army was partially defeated. - This was admitted by Stalin in a panicky letter to Churchill, dated September 3, 1941, with a desperate request for immediate help.
    ,, .... Without these two types of assistance, the Soviet Union will either be defeated or weakened to the point that it loses for a long time the ability to provide assistance to its allies by its active actions on the front of the fight against Hitlerism ..


    Suffice it to recall the results of the rapid advancement of the talented generals Kirponos and Pavlov.
    General Kirponos commanded a division in 1940, in 1941 - commander of the Southwestern Front, a 650 thousandth group was captured ...
    General Pavlov, a prominent theoretician of the use of armored forces, in 1940, inspector for the use of armored forces, in 1941, commander of the Western Front, was shot.
    Yes, talented generals had neither theoretical knowledge nor experience in managing a huge group of troops, their predecessors were destroyed by Stalin ...
    1. Magog_
      Magog_ 15 January 2021 12: 43
      -3
      Start your analysis with Zhukov. By the beginning of 1941 he was already the Chief of the General Staff of the KA - only Timoshenko was higher ... But all the practical military preparations for war were prepared by the future "Marshal of Victory", and Pavlov, Kirponos and others were only executors of orders and decisions of the General Staff ...
  • Cherry Nine
    Cherry Nine 15 January 2021 09: 19
    +3
    The author has accumulated the good, which is in bulk in LJ.

    She lied herself - she exposed her.

    A giant figure. But these are far from the "tens of millions of those shot" that are so persistently trumpeted to us from the West, is it not?


    About tens of millions of those shot, the author and the like are lying. Normal people talk about ten or more million victims. Naturally, the number of victims of the Soviet regime will never be established accurately, since,
    1. The Soviet government has never been busy counting its victims.
    1a. Not all victims have a say in history. Therefore, when the word "repression" is used, most people recall the 37th year, and not at all the times of war communism, the first five-year plan or WWII, when the Soviet regime several times walked the country with fire and sword. But at the end of the 30s, some literate and educated people were seized, who (whose relatives) left their memoirs, novels and films. Those unnamed - left nothing.

    2. The term "victims of the Soviet regime" is a rather evaluative term. Traditionally, they include the dead, convicted, displaced, deprived of property and rights. A certain number of millions or tens of millions are recruited. But on the other hand, residents of, say, Western Ukraine and Western Belarus, who before the well-known events lived in Europe, and after the well-known events and still live in Ukraine and Belarus - are they not victims of Soviet power? How to say...
  • Amur
    Amur 15 January 2021 10: 14
    0
    Great article +
    For comparison, I would add figures for the Western countries. And ... I suspect that they had many more shot and put in prison.
  • Vladimir1155
    Vladimir1155 15 January 2021 10: 51
    +2
    and if you count the executed rightly, traitors, bandits, robbers, murderers, robbers, robbers of Bendera ... it turns out even less figure
    1. Magog_
      Magog_ 15 January 2021 12: 07
      +1
      "Bendera" are, obviously, residents of the city of Bendery in Moldova. Were they also justly shot? stop
      1. Vladimir1155
        Vladimir1155 15 January 2021 12: 15
        0
        no, these are members of gangs organized by the Nazis on the outskirts of the suburbs under the flag of national intolerance of murder and robbery
        1. Magog_
          Magog_ 15 January 2021 12: 23
          +1
          Movement under the flag of Stepan Bandera, nationalists, bandits (from the word "gang"). It will be right.
  • Magog_
    Magog_ 15 January 2021 11: 04
    +3
    Maybe not on the topic, but already got it everywhere! Gentlemen, what are we doing with our language? And the author of the article also concerns. "Huge NUMBERS", "order of NUMBERS", "repression of ORDER four million people", etc. "Digit" is an icon for writing NUMBERS! At one time (in the middle of the century) there were numbers in the form of LETTERS (the same signs!) Glagolitic, today the so-called. Arabic and Roman numerals. Explain, please, what does the expression "huge figure" mean? Is this an image of an icon on a poster, on a stadium scoreboard, or where? ... I know from school what "number order" is. And the "order of numbers", apparently, implies a positional system of writing numbers, right? But this is a commonplace, which to indicate in support of some important thought or evidence looks silly, you must agree! The expression "a huge figure of the order of several million / billion / trillion" does not make any sense at all - just delirium of a madman! Etc...
  • prior
    prior 15 January 2021 11: 26
    0
    Eh. We would now have these repressions. What a wonderful country we would have lived in then!
    1. hhhhhhh
      hhhhhhh 15 January 2021 20: 12
      -1
      Who puts the cons? Are you afraid for your crimes?
  • Glebovich
    Glebovich 15 January 2021 12: 05
    +1
    Tragedy is when in 2000 50 people died on the roads from road accidents a year, and what happened under Stalin is called JUSTICE.
  • Svarog
    Svarog 15 January 2021 13: 46
    +2
    Irina, Thank you for the work done, I will leave your material in my bookmarks .. otherwise a lot of commentators here are raving about tens of millions of victims of "bloody Stalin" hi
    1. nnm
      nnm 15 January 2021 19: 45
      0
      I join what has been said.
  • kalibr
    kalibr 15 January 2021 14: 05
    -2
    Quote: kalibr
    The rest of the time it is not said to be very different from the background for these age groups.

    Especially interesting?
  • Sergey Nikiforov
    Sergey Nikiforov 15 January 2021 14: 52
    0
    Well, our Rosstat now gives such figures that in 40 years historians will be so delighted with our development
    1. Magog_
      Magog_ 15 January 2021 15: 31
      0
      Rosstat issues its estimates and summaries of VALUES, expressed in "pieces", "percent", "tons", "kilometers", "dollars / rubles", etc. And in what "delight" historians will be in 40 years depends on the order of the authorities, just as today "statistics" depends on the latter ...
  • Rafil Valiev
    Rafil Valiev 15 January 2021 16: 23
    +1
    Chubais also helped to denigrate Stalin for his privatization. Look what is happening among the officials today, especially among the large ...?
  • hhhhhhh
    hhhhhhh 15 January 2021 17: 55
    -1
    Defenders of the United States proving their hatred of the USSR to the Americans for Trump or Biden are soaring?
    Enough to customize the numbers.
    Today there is more in the United States than under Stalin. There are also innocent people in private prisons. How many are waiting to serve their terms, how many will be imprisoned for votes in favor of Trump.
    Don't like the USSR? Suitcase vashigtonsk station.
  • Terran ghost
    Terran ghost 15 January 2021 19: 46
    +3
    These figures include revolutionaries, Leninists and Trotskyists, as well as other destroyers of the Russian Empire, who smashed the great country to please the West.

    Oh, this is perhaps something new, Mr. author of the article. Anti-Soviet Stalinist. I haven’t seen anything like this yet;)
    Let's repeat. The main figure from this document is that 32 642 people were sentenced to death for all 980 years.

    http://istoriki.su/uploads/posts/2018-03/1522325628_politicheskie-repressii-v-sssr-ris-1.png
    The vast majority of executions took place in the period 1937-1938.
    It is important to understand that ALL, without exception, the repressive "sentences" of 1937-1938, passed by the so-called. "threes", "twos", "special meeting of the NKVD" were absolutely illegal from the point of view of the USSR Constitution of 1936.
  • Blackgrifon
    Blackgrifon 15 January 2021 19: 52
    0
    Thank you! In general, what I found when I was interested coincided. It is a pity that "lovers of the secret truth" and "fighters against bloody regimes" will not believe it anyway.
  • hhhhhhh
    hhhhhhh 15 January 2021 20: 10
    -1
    Instead of counting the repressed, can we count who was innocent?
    Only those who loved Soviet power and did not commit criminal offenses are innocent. The rest are all guilty.
    1. Cherry Nine
      Cherry Nine 16 January 2021 02: 10
      0
      Quote: hhhhhhh
      Only those who loved Soviet power and did not commit criminal offenses are innocent

      Well, that's a good idea.
      Of the 139 members and candidates for members of the Party Central Committee elected at the 70th Party Congress, 1937% were arrested and shot in 1938-1966. as "enemies of the people." Of the 1108 delegates to the same congress with a decisive and deliberative vote, more than half - XNUMX people were convicted of counter-revolutionary speeches


      I agree with your position, but with a slight clarification. All members of the All-Union Communist Party (Bolsheviks) / Comintern, all responsible employees of the Soviet state bodies were shot / repressed for the cause. Of course, the officers of the Red Army, who had sworn to the Sovereign, were shot for the cause - there is no need to regret the perjurers. So the maxim "And he shot right! And he shot a little!" certainly has the right to life.

      It is also undoubted that the overwhelming number of those destroyed by the Soviet regime were destroyed innocently. But they, in general, were not included in the reference for the 58th. They were destroyed without unnecessary paperwork.
      1. mat-vey
        mat-vey 16 January 2021 05: 32
        +1
        Quote: Cherry Nine
        It is also undoubted that the overwhelming number of those destroyed by the Soviet regime were destroyed innocently

        How much will it be in millions?
        1. Cherry Nine
          Cherry Nine 16 January 2021 13: 33
          -1
          Quote: mat-vey
          How much will it be in millions?

          Who cares?
          1. mat-vey
            mat-vey 16 January 2021 14: 21
            0
            Quote: Cherry Nine
            Who cares?

            And who do you consider "destroyed by the Soviet power"? Are the Germans included in the Second World War? All without exception without a certificate on the 58th, and all, in principle, political ..
            1. Cherry Nine
              Cherry Nine 16 January 2021 14: 47
              +2
              Germans? Honestly speaking, I didn't think about the problems of the Germans. I think they found someone to ask questions without me.

              As for the Second World War.
              Losses of PMA / WWII perished, million people
              Britain, 0.89 / 0.38
              France, 1.455 / 0.65
              United States, 0.117 / 0.417
              Germany + AVI, about 4 / about 8
              Russia (USSR) - about 3.3 / not less than 27

              The wise international policy of Mr. Roosevelt and the WFGN is being discussed by the respective countries (I note that the Democrats managed to blabber these issues out tightly). But the multinational Soviet people could talk about the last figure with the people's power. But he didn’t talk, and it’s unlikely when he will get together.

              And if the multinational people are not interested in this, then even more so for the rest.
              1. mat-vey
                mat-vey 16 January 2021 14: 50
                0
                Quote: Cherry Nine
                I will note that the Democrats managed to chatter these questions tightly

                I will notice that you, too, show complete solidarity with them in this moment.
                1. Cherry Nine
                  Cherry Nine 16 January 2021 14: 52
                  -1
                  With the US Democratic Party? This is a big surprise for me.

                  This remark was about a fourfold increase in US losses, if you didn't get it.
                  1. mat-vey
                    mat-vey 16 January 2021 14: 57
                    +1
                    If you do not understand, then we are talking about "innocently destroyed by the Soviet regime" and what does the United States have to do with it? Well, they certainly contributed, but is it really about now?
                    1. Cherry Nine
                      Cherry Nine 16 January 2021 15: 05
                      +1
                      I see some serious reading problems.

                      Britain and France have reduced their WWII losses relative to WWII. Germans + AVI doubled. The Americans are almost fourfold. And the Soviet power in relation to the rotten regime of Nikolai the Bloody lost at least 8 people instead of one.

                      And to whom, excuse me, questions about these additional seven? You seem to have these questions for the United States?
                      1. mat-vey
                        mat-vey 16 January 2021 15: 15
                        -1
                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        And the Soviet power in relation to the rotten regime of Nikolai the Bloody lost at least 8 people instead of one.

                        And you mean that you have claims to the Soviet government that it did not burn the peacekeepers in the sheds and did not burn the prisoners in the stoves?
                      2. Cherry Nine
                        Cherry Nine 16 January 2021 15: 47
                        +2
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        she didn’t burn a peace man in the barns

                        Think?
                        The Chechen people have not yet gone through a complete rehabilitation from Stalinist repressions - neither moral nor material. The whole world knows about the Holocaust, but few people know about the history of Khaibakh. Therefore, we must approach the issue of holding events dedicated to the Day of Memory and Mourning of the peoples of the Chechen Republic with all responsibility.

                        We have yet to return to the question of sheds. Russians can forgive the people's power whatever they want, but except them no one will forgive anything.
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        did you burn prisoners in the stoves?

                        And why, in fact, do not ask the Soviet authorities this? Did she do everything to help her prisoners of war through the IWC? How many times did you raise this question with the Allies, who wanted and could solve such questions? When German prisoners of war appeared in noticeable numbers, did you, for example, raise the question of exchanging everyone for everyone?

                        No? Not once?

                        And why not?
                      3. mat-vey
                        mat-vey 16 January 2021 16: 01
                        0
                        Well, it's clear .... that means if the USSR had cut out all of Prussia and buried as many German prisoners as possible, the ratio of losses would have been fine for you.
                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        Think?

                        I still think that in the midst of the war, the komunyaki of such wonderful people stopped calling at all .. probably that after the war they would be offended that such brave and honest soldiers did so little for victory.
                        Do you seriously believe in the red IWC with the genocide that took place in relation to the citizens of the USSR? Are you serious, are you so naive?
                        You also say that the war could have been prevented, well, or surrendered and now they would have been drinking Bavarian ... but the communists specially persuaded Hitler to kill more, since they themselves could not cope ..
                      4. Cherry Nine
                        Cherry Nine 16 January 2021 16: 37
                        0
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        then if the USSR had cut out all of Prussia and buried as many German prisoners as possible, the ratio of losses would have been quite satisfactory for you.

                        Are there many Germans left in East Prussia? Or maybe the German military station was somehow very lucky?

                        But these are, excuse me, the questions of the Germans to their glorious Party. And from the Anglo-Americans it will be possible to ask when the Germans will have the courage. If everyone agrees with CiN in principle, then Harris's actions during the war and Eisenhower's actions after are crimes that have no justification. Crimes both against Germany and humanity, and, more importantly, against their countries.

                        But now we are not talking about American-German relations.
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        I also think that in the midst of the war, the komunyaki of such wonderful peoples generally stopped calling

                        What's the difference? The Americans didn’t call the Japanese, there were relatively few blacks, the Germans didn’t take Jews to the Wehrmacht, and in general they didn’t take a lot of people, is this some reason for pride now?
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        Do you seriously believe in the red IWC with the genocide that was against the citizens of the USSR?

                        And what, excuse me, has been done in this direction?

                        I will tell you more, any person interested in the Second World War has questions about the genocide. Find the share of the Red Army conscripts from the "liberated territories" in the 44th year.
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        or give up and drink Bavarian now

                        Well, you said it, not me. I, if you followed, was interested to know why the war with a much weaker enemy cost the Soviet power 8 times more people than the bloody tsarist regime.

                        Although the position of the Bavarian lovers should also be taken into account. There are not so few people who drank this Bavarian in 39, until the beginning of the 90s for some reason were forced to do without it. Usually this topic is raised by the Balts, Poles and Westerners, but actually the deficit of Bavarian has affected many more people who have not yet expressed themselves. Out of courtesy.

                        And they can also speak up.
                      5. mat-vey
                        mat-vey 16 January 2021 17: 07
                        0
                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        You followed, was interested to know why the war with a much weaker enemy cost the Soviet power 8 times more people than the bloody tsarist regime.

                        How interesting .. weak means ... lost in the first world war, but here the weak crushed everyone ... well, well.
                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        Are there many Germans left in East Prussia?

                        And that the councils sent them to concentration camps? To the GULAG for hard labor ...
                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        What's the difference? The Americans didn’t call the Japanese, there were relatively few blacks, the Germans didn’t take Jews to the Wehrmacht, and in general they didn’t take a lot of people, is this some reason for pride now?

                        So the USSR didn’t call on the Chechens all the same to walk by their pride? Then the resources were torn from the front for resettlement only because of their natural bloodthirstiness.
                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        Find the share of the Red Army conscripts from the "liberated territories" in the 44th year.

                        Again, what would the pride suffer?
                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        And what, excuse me, has been done in this direction?

                        And what could have been done? Ask the genocide to reduce? Well, in 1941, the exchange of notes was .. And 57% of the Germans destroyed it if less rolling stock was needed. The Germans did not observe any signed conventions out of resentment that Molotov did not want to discuss anything with them. And so you just talk and persuade the policy in the east to change, and maybe Hitler apologized in general and the troops would have withdrawn - well, a mistake with living space at the expense of the eastern territories came out.
                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        but actually the deficit of Bavarian has affected many more people who have not yet expressed themselves. Out of courtesy.

                        Are you hinting at Peter?
                      6. Cherry Nine
                        Cherry Nine 16 January 2021 17: 36
                        0
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        Are you hinting at Peter?

                        Peter? Did you drink Bavarian there in 39? No, I'm talking about more western places where the people's power had not yet reached at that time.
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        And what could be done?

                        What has been done?
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        Well, in 1941 there was an exchange of notes.

                        Yes, at the expense of the notes of the USSR was not greedy. And in fact, the American Embassy wrote with considerable surprise to Washington in 45 that during the "liberation" in the east of the Reich of american prisoners of war by the Soviet side, their regime was getting worse... In particular, access to them by the ICC was terminated. The Soviet Union did not like the IWC.
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        mistake with living space

                        The issue of living space in the East was resolved back in the 39th year.
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        Again, what would the pride suffer?

                        What other pride? Found the numbers, no?
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        So the USSR did not call on the Chechens all the same, so that they could walk by their pride?

                        What does pride have to do with it? He did not call and did not call, who should care? By the way, I didn't call on the account
                        Mahmud Amaev, A. Akhtaev, A.-V. Akhtaev, Dasha Akaev, Z. Akhmatkhanov, Y. Alisultanov, Ali Guchigov, Khavaji Magomed-Mirzaev, Irbaikhan Beibulatov, S. Midaev, U. Kasumov, I. Shaipov, A.-X. Ismailov; three times: Abukhadzhi Idrisov, Movladi Visaitov, Sakka Visaitov, Matash Mazaev, I. Utsiev; four times: Khanpasha Nuradilov

                        Who are all these people?
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        Then resources were torn from the front for resettlement only because of their natural bloodthirstiness

                        Yes you are right. Hitler, since they remembered him, was also not stopped by the fact that the death camps were taking resources away from the front.
                        There were things more important for the Soviet power than the front, apparently.
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        And that the councils sent them to concentration camps? To the Gulag for hard labor

                        At this point, someone is as lucky. But from East Prussia, the Germans disappeared somewhere, as it was not.
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        How interesting .. weak means ... lost in the first world war, but here the weak crushed everyone

                        Yes, the Wehrmacht was a shadow of the Reichswehr, this is a fairly well-known fact. Is this news to you?
                      7. mat-vey
                        mat-vey 16 January 2021 17: 49
                        -1
                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        What does pride have to do with it? He did not call and did not call, who should care? By the way, I didn't call on the account

                        And you don't want to look, because it's easy and pleasant to give advice.
                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        Yes, the Wehrmacht was a shadow of the Reichswehr, this is a fairly well-known fact. Is this news to you?

                        And France did not know either ...
                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        There were things more important for the Soviet power than the front, apparently.

                        Naturally, saving the country.
                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        At this point, someone is as lucky. But from East Prussia, the Germans disappeared somewhere, as it was not.

                        Come on ....
                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        Yes you are right. Hitler, since they remembered him, was also not stopped by the fact that the death camps were taking resources away from the front.

                        About hard workers you mean no, no, and not only prisoners.
                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        The issue of living space in the East was resolved back in the 39th year.

                        And why then in the USSR flooded? Stalin asked what would jointly crumble the little people?
                      8. Cherry Nine
                        Cherry Nine 16 January 2021 18: 24
                        0
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        And why then flooded in the USSR?

                        Quote: mat-vey
                        Don't you want to look?

                        Hitler's position on this issue is well known.
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        Do you mean no-no about laborers?

                        What other work of prisoners? Did you need the labor of Chechens and Ingush in Kazakhstan in 44 or what? How did they end up captive?
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        Come on ....

                        Did you find the Germans in the homeland of the great Russian philosopher I. Kant? What was this remark for?
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        Naturally, saving the country.

                        Yes Yes. So the Soviet government was itching to save the country from internal enemies, which even in 44 found time for this. Although why "even", she and in 41st found time for what she loved. Always, in general.
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        And France did not know either ...

                        If you followed the dialogue, you would already be aware of the place at this table.

                        Zhukov (center) paid more than all the others put together, about 20 times, and in comparison with one de Tassigny (sitting second from the right) - about 50 times.

                        The victory in WWII cost the French more than 2 times cheaper than in WWII.
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        Don't you want to look?

                        I, as you might guess, have already looked. While the Soviet government was engaged in the destruction of other peoples of the USSR, the Chechens and Ingush were called up on a general basis.
                      9. mat-vey
                        mat-vey 16 January 2021 18: 43
                        -1
                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        I, as you might guess, have already looked. While the Soviet government was engaged in the destruction of other peoples of the USSR, the Chechens and Ingush were called up on a general basis.

                        It’s not good to deceive that ... There are GKO orders about conscriptions, everything is said there ... although everything is from the pages of Ogonyok ..
                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        The victory in WWII cost the French more than 2 times cheaper than in WWII.

                        And nuda, nuda - these also defeated us ... You really don't turn everything into a kindergarten.
                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        Yes Yes. So the Soviet government was itching to save the country from internal enemies, which even in 44 found time for this. Although why "even", she and in 41st found time for what she loved. Always, in general.

                        Well, of course, all things were thrown, if only the people would not stop at nothing here and the troops from the front removed the wagons as well - and after all, the same NKVD officers could have put more people in the detachments at that time instead of Chechens ...
                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        Did you find the Germans in the homeland of the great Russian philosopher I. Kant? What was this remark for?

                        Well, it was possible that the refugees immediately went to the GULAG .... Or is it more difficult to take statistics not from their homes so that they can equalize the numbers?
                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        What other work of prisoners?

                        Convict, I suppose ..
                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        Did you need the labor of Chechens and Ingush in Kazakhstan in 44 or what? How did they end up captive?
                        And where was about the "captured Chechens"?
                      10. Cherry Nine
                        Cherry Nine 16 January 2021 19: 36
                        0
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        There are GKO orders about conscriptions, it says it all.

                        Which are you looking through one?
                        https://www.soldat.ru/doc/gko/text/4324.html
                        Or did you want to sketch that half of the country was enemies of the Soviet regime?
                        The conscripts of local nationalities are not subject to conscription: Uzbek, Tajik, Turkmen, Kazakh, Kirghiz, Georgian, Armenian and Azerbaijan Soviet Socialist Republics, Dagestan, Chechen-Ingush, Kabardino-Balkar, North Ossetian Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republics and the Adygei Igeysk, Adygei Autonomous Republics areas

                        Quote: mat-vey
                        Don't turn everything into a kindergarten.

                        Another very funny sketch, considering the fact that the random person at this table is Zhukov. For what Eisenhower was a friend of the Soviet regime, but when Truman agreed to a second surrender, even he went nuts. And so the surrender of the Reich from the USSR was signed by I.A. Susloparov.
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        Naturally, all things were thrown, if only the people would not stop at nothing here and the troops from the front removed the cars too - and after all, the same NKVD officers could have put more people in the detachments instead of Chechens at that time

                        Don't worry about the detachments. The Soviet regime had enough ammunition for everyone. There was not always enough for the Germans, but for everyone else - without interruption.
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        Well, you could have refugees immediately in the GULAG

                        A good idea. It seems that you caught the wave of those years.
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        Convict, I suppose ..

                        Well, suppose. Do you still remember the topic of the conversation, no?
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        And where was about the "captured Chechens"?

                        No idea. It was you who somehow connected the military service and the diversion of resources from the front to mass deportations.
                      11. mat-vey
                        mat-vey 16 January 2021 20: 47
                        -1
                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        Do you still remember the topic of the conversation, no?

                        And you? A long time ago you jumped off it ... although this is a common thing with you ..
                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        And where was about the "captured Chechens"?

                        No idea. It was you who somehow connected the military service and the diversion of resources from the front to mass deportations.

                        Does God have sclerosis?
                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        The Soviet regime had enough ammunition for everyone. There was not always enough for the Germans, but for everyone else - without interruption.

                        Well, that was not enough for you? And now you harbor resentment?
                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        Another very funny sketch, considering the fact that the random person at this table is Zhukov. For what Eisenhower was a friend of the Soviet regime, but when Truman agreed to a second surrender, even he went nuts. And so the surrender of the Reich from the USSR was signed by I.A. Susloparov.

                        Do you even understand yourself?
                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        Or did you want to sketch that half of the country was enemies of the Soviet regime?

                        What are you, scribbles is yours as it is possible to encroach on your bread? Moreover, you see enemies around you. It is no wonder that those around you seem to be evil.
                      12. Cherry Nine
                        Cherry Nine 16 January 2021 21: 16
                        +1
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        Do you even understand yourself?

                        And what is incomprehensible here? The immediate reason for the ceremony in Karlshorst was 2 mistakes: 1. The stupid and criminal actions of Eisenhower, who forced Doenitz to go for complete surrender instead of partial surrender in the West. 2. The inexplicable insanity of Truman, who allowed the USSR to hold its ceremony of signing the act of surrender.
                        Eisenhower paid for his crime, albeit a little, but immediately - Karlshorst turned him from the victor of Hitler into some incomprehensible optional character. Truman - a little later, when in the summer of the 48th Comrade. Stalin returned his debts to him for Karlshorst, and for Bohemia, and yes Thuringia, and for Potsdam - for all his betrayals at once.
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        A long time ago you jumped off her

                        Yes?
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        whom do you consider "destroyed by the Soviet power"? Are the Germans included in the Second World War? All without exception without a certificate on the 58th, and all, in principle, political ..

                        The topic of the branch was announced as the distribution of responsibility between the Soviet and German sides for the losses of the Soviet side in the Second World War.

                        But you made a bazaar-station and jokes-jokes. Well, joke further.
                      13. mat-vey
                        mat-vey 16 January 2021 21: 21
                        -1
                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        And what is incomprehensible here? The immediate reason for the ceremony in Karlshorst was 2 mistakes: 1. The stupid and criminal actions of Eisenhower, who forced Doenitz to go for complete surrender instead of partial surrender in the West. 2. The inexplicable insanity of Truman, who allowed the USSR to hold its ceremony of signing the act of surrender.
                        Eisenhower paid for his crime, albeit a little, but immediately - Karlshorst turned him from the victor of Hitler into some incomprehensible optional character. Truman - a little later, when in the summer of the 48th Comrade. Stalin returned his debts to him for Karlshorst, and for Bohemia, and yes Thuringia, and for Potsdam - for all his betrayals at once.

                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        A long time ago you jumped off her

                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        Yes?

                        ??
                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        The topic of the branch was announced as the distribution of responsibility between the Soviet and German sides for the losses of the Soviet side in the Second World War.

                        Quote: mat-vey
                        And who do you consider "destroyed by the Soviet power"?

                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        But you made a bazaar-station and jokes-jokes. Well, joke further.

                        And with you, how can you be serious? You have maniacs coming out of all the cracks - what a seriousness there is.
                      14. Cherry Nine
                        Cherry Nine 17 January 2021 05: 24
                        0
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        Yes?

                        ??

                        Well, everyone has their own habits. For example, I am used to reminding at any opportunity that there are, so to speak, the main winners and there are optional ones. The USSR, France and China were nominated as winners for completely extraneous reasons. It quickly became clear that this was a mistake.
                      15. mat-vey
                        mat-vey 17 January 2021 08: 55
                        0
                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        For example, I am used to reminding at any opportunity that there are, so to speak, the main winners and there are optional ones.

                        And don't you really like it when they remind you of it?
                      16. Cherry Nine
                        Cherry Nine 17 January 2021 11: 21
                        +2
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        Do you have a fan?

                        I didn't find out. But if so, hello, distant friend. hi
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        And don't you really like when they remind you of this?

                        Adore. I never miss an opportunity to talk about the fact that the USSR, like France, was among the winners thanks to the dirty Washington politicians who were running around with the new League of Nations like a chicken and an egg. Like the first time, this turned out to be a damn bad idea.
                        If adequate people were at the helm (and they were), who understand that the main natural allies of the United States will be post-war Germany and Japan, and the main enemy, of course, the republic of workers and peasants, would have cost the USSR without German surrender, with a warm friendly telegram. Like, thanks for your help, bon voyage home.

                        How would the native authorities celebrate the year of the 75th anniversary of the Great Victory - it's scary to imagine.

                        But, this is my old man's verbosity. There is something to add about the statistical anomalies with Soviet losses, no?
                      17. mat-vey
                        mat-vey 17 January 2021 11: 35
                        -1
                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        There is something to add about the statistical anomalies with Soviet losses, no?

                        Everything is the same - do you have a claim that the USSR did not jam the peace people and feed the prisoners?
                      18. Cherry Nine
                        Cherry Nine 17 January 2021 12: 34
                        0
                        I have claims to the USSR that everyone except him fought better or moderately worse than the accursed old regime (although as a claim, only a well-belligerent USSR was lacking in the 1913th century). But the people's power stands out sharply against the general background. And, by the way, it is in the military sense that the comparison of the Soviet regime with XNUMX is most revealing.
                      19. mat-vey
                        mat-vey 17 January 2021 12: 47
                        -1
                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        I have claims to the USSR that everyone except him fought better or moderately worse than the damned old regime

                        Everyone has a right to their own delusions ..
              2. mat-vey
                mat-vey 17 January 2021 10: 00
                -1
                Do you have a fan? Or do you play Snake Gorynych?
  • hhhhhhh
    hhhhhhh 30 January 2021 15: 19
    0
    "It is also undoubted that the overwhelming majority of those destroyed by the Soviet regime were destroyed innocently. But they, in general, were not included in the certificate on the 58th. They were destroyed without unnecessary paperwork." - what was the fault of the millions that did not fit into the market?
    Did the Soviet government teach you to read and write? What did the current government give you?
    1. Cherry Nine
      Cherry Nine 30 January 2021 15: 48
      +1
      Quote: hhhhhhh
      what was the fault of millions that did not fit into the market?

      And how many of them were destroyed by the (anti) people's power?
      Quote: hhhhhhh
      Did the Soviet government teach you to read and write?

      No.
      Quote: hhhhhhh
      What did the current government give you?

      She gave a lot, didn’t give a lot. Did I speak well about the current government somewhere?
      1. hhhhhhh
        hhhhhhh 30 January 2021 20: 06
        0
        Who taught you to write and read interesting? Even interesting.
        You don’t like the people's Soviet power, you don’t like capitalist power. Are you for feudalism?

        "Did I speak well about the current government somewhere?" - it turns out that you are against paying money to children in 2020?
        1. Cherry Nine
          Cherry Nine 30 January 2021 21: 46
          +3
          Quote: hhhhhhh
          Who taught you to write and read interesting?

          We drank with you at brotherhood? I don’t remember.

          My parents taught me to read. As for education, the bloody tsarist regimes, in addition to the Russian one, introduced universal education in the XNUMXth-XNUMXth centuries for the same purpose - the training of a mass soldier. The Russian tsarist regime did not even do that, but the Bolsheviks did. I see no reason for gratitude here.
          Quote: hhhhhhh
          it turns out that you are against paying money to children in 2020?

          Why should I be for the fact that my money is spent by the Emperor on self-promotion? Or maybe he earned money, which he gives out on his own behalf, by his own labor, and not taken from me?
          1. hhhhhhh
            hhhhhhh 30 January 2021 21: 59
            0
            "We drank brotherhood with you? I don't remember" - the last argument in a dispute, when there is nothing more to say.
            I am too old, I have many children, I served a full 3 years, the boss .... on the Internet since 98g On the Internet, everyone is equal.

            "And why on earth should I be for the fact that my money is spent by the Emperor on self-promotion? Or maybe he earned the money that he gives out on his own behalf, by his own labor, and not taken from me?" - I pay taxes, but how did your money end up with the president you legally elected?

            “My parents taught me to read.” - Did you go to school? Poor? Didn't your parents go to a Soviet school either? Did the USSR pay for higher education?

            “I don't see any reason for gratitude here.” - suitcase. railway station. ....
            1. Cherry Nine
              Cherry Nine 31 January 2021 02: 24
              +3
              Quote: hhhhhhh
              the last argument in a dispute, when there is nothing more to say.

              Seriously?
              Quote: hhhhhhh
              I am too old, I have many children, I served a full 3 years, the boss .... on the Internet since 98g On the Internet, everyone is equal.

              But not everyone behaves like tram boors, citizen boss.
              Quote: hhhhhhh
              I pay taxes, but how did your money end up with the president you legally elected?

              And your president is in charge of taxes, the citizen is the boss?
              Quote: hhhhhhh
              did you go to school? Poor?

              To be honest, it's hard to remember what school taught me. But I do remember that she had nothing to do with the Soviet regime.
              Quote: hhhhhhh
              Did the USSR pay for higher education?

              Naturally they paid. As far as I know, the RSFSR and its residents did not manage to receive money, goods and services directly from Allah. Everything was somehow given by their work, albeit mostly stupid. Including the so-called free education.
              Quote: hhhhhhh
              suitcase. railway station. ....

              Your opinion is very important to me, citizen chief.
              Quote: hhhhhhh
              You are a typical Russian rotten intelligentsia

              Well, it's rotten all over the place, but the Russian intelligentsia sounds insulting.
              Quote: hhhhhhh
              I myself am so smart on my own, without the state, I owe nothing to anyone, everyone around me owes

              Who are you talking to? And what did it stab you in half an hour, citizen chief?
              Quote: hhhhhhh
              money for children is PR.

              For a year 2 times for 150 bucks, if I'm not mistaken? For some, PR, for some, mockery. The amount of payment assigned twice a year corresponds to the amount of taxes (personal income tax + employer payments) from the average salary in the Russian Federation for one month. Naturally, it would hardly have occurred to you, citizen chief, to ask what the costs should be when the authorities act according to the law - through the announcement of an emergency.
              1. hhhhhhh
                hhhhhhh 31 January 2021 10: 47
                0
                So I don’t understand you were taught to read and write by the Bolsheviks or were you yourself born so smart in a Soviet family? Immediately "rotten Russian intellectual".
                The rest of your verbiage is typical soviet memorized fakes from the 90s. If the money was paid to you, you would make up an excuse that this is correct.
                What to do? You have never said, as a typical "Russian rotten intelligentsia", why think, it's easier to troll)))).
                What to do instead of giving money to children?
                What to do so that everyone knows that Solzhenitsyn is like him Liars?
                What can you do to make you recognize the Soviet upbringing in yourself?
                1. Cherry Nine
                  Cherry Nine 31 January 2021 16: 49
                  +2
                  Quote: hhhhhhh
                  So I do not understand

                  It happens that the citizen is the boss.

                  You were told that the fight against education was one of the strangest features of Russia We Lost. Naturally, as soon as it was possible to get rid of Russia, the corresponding laws were adopted as soon as possible. Poland, Latvia 1919 (the Poles were the easiest of all, since in the German and Austrian voivodships, naturally, education was established long ago), Estonia 1920, Finland 1921. Of the Soviet republics, the Ukrainian SSR was the first to adopt such a law in 1924 (surprise!), The USSR as a whole - in 1930, simultaneously with India. In the capital countries, by that time, there was already a transition from universal primary to universal complete secondary education (in the states, Oregon became the first, 1922), which was implemented in the USSR in 1958.

                  For what there is an opportunity to thank the Bolsheviks - I can't imagine. For women's education, perhaps, this measure was very progressive at that time. The disgustingly low educational level of the population was primarily a military problem, and the people's power took military problems to heart.
                  Quote: hhhhhhh
                  If the money was paid to you, you would make up an excuse that this is correct.

                  From a black sheep - even a tuft of wool? Maybe.
                  Quote: hhhhhhh
                  What to do instead of giving money to children?

                  It is natural to give money to parents who are on forced leave. Similar to downtime due to the fault of the employer, but this is the fault of the state authorities, not the employer.
                  Quote: hhhhhhh
                  What to do so that everyone knows that Solzhenitsyn is like him

                  Does anyone consider Solzhenitsyn a historian?
                  Quote: hhhhhhh
                  What can you do to make you recognize the Soviet upbringing in yourself?

                  Anti-Soviet.
                  1. hhhhhhh
                    hhhhhhh 31 January 2021 17: 43
                    0
                    Those who were educated in Europe at the beginning of the century, including the Balts, active participants in the Holocaust and the genocide of the Soviet people. Like their descendants today, they staged a genocide of Russians in the EU. Gas chambers and concentration camps were invented by educated Europeans, not Bolsheviks.

                    "Anti-Soviet." - you endured from school. Clear.

                    "state bodies are to blame here" - is the state to blame for covid? Is there a court decision?

                    "Give money to parents" - the money was just given to the parents.

                    "Disgustingly low educational level of the population" - even the terpily of the Soviet school write without mistakes, and they graduated from HIGHER EDUCATION INSTITUTIONS FOR FREE. Did you graduate from college for free?

                    "Does anyone consider Solzhenitsyn a historian?" - your president

                    I am a left Russian, and what kind of you will you be?
                  2. Cherry Nine
                    Cherry Nine 31 January 2021 23: 24
                    +1
                    Quote: hhhhhhh
                    Those who were educated in Europe at the beginning of the century, including the Balts, active participants in the Holocaust and genocide of the Soviet people

                    I see that participation in the genocide of the Russian people is some kind of universal answer to all questions.
                    Quote: hhhhhhh
                    today staged a genocide of Russians in the EU.

                    Already arranged? Strange, did not notice it on myself. It turns out that Europeans are still cheerful, did not expect this from them. If you're not lying, of course.
                    Quote: hhhhhhh
                    Gas chambers and concentration camps were invented by educated Europeans, not Bolsheviks.

                    Yes, the Bolsheviks did without difficulties.
                    Quote: hhhhhhh
                    is the state to blame for covid? Is there a court decision?

                    "Give money to parents" - the money was just given to the parents.

                    Um, yes. Since the intellectual level betrays the citizen as the chief of the guard, I will not refer to the laws, empty.
                    Quote: hhhhhhh
                    write without errors, and UNIVERSITIES have graduated for FREE.

                    lol
                    Quote: hhhhhhh
                    Solzhenitsyn a historian? "- your president

                    The Emperor himself is a great historian, as far as I am aware. Just for the WWII period. So he can get off Solzhenitsyn, too, I'm not particularly interested in relationships.
                  3. The comment was deleted.
                  4. hhhhhhh
                    hhhhhhh 1 February 2021 18: 21
                    +1
                    Censorship is Freedom of speech.))))) Did you manage to read it?

                    For 30 years, the USSR is gone, and the Bolsheviks are to blame for your poverty.))))
      2. hhhhhhh
        hhhhhhh 30 January 2021 22: 14
        -1
        You are a typical rotten Russian intelligentsia - I myself am so smart on my own, without the state, I owe nothing to anyone, everyone around me owes me, only to me smart, money is PR to children. You must also call it.))))))
        You are funny)))) typical. You haven't changed in the last 300 years
  • V_S
    V_S 15 January 2021 20: 21
    0
    Reasonable work, thanks. But there is one question for this figure
    ..the total number of convicts for 32 years was +3 777 380 human.
    Why did Bortnikov increase this number by 282, referring to the same certificate, and where did he get them from?
    .
    The fact is that now in social networks this number of convicts and this, or similar, picture are used against anti-falsifiers. Please help me figure it out.
  • magdama
    magdama 16 January 2021 07: 25
    +1
    When I was studying at a university in the 80s, among the students, notebooks with tens of millions of those shot, listing all the marshals, went from hand to hand. And Suvorov's books. This is how the bourgeois coup of 1991 was being prepared. And they succeeded. Well done Americans, ruin such a country ...
    1. The eye of the crying
      The eye of the crying 16 January 2021 10: 18
      0
      Quote: magdama
      When I was studying at the university in the 80s, among the students, notebooks with tens of millions of those executed were passed from hand to hand.


      Notebooks with tens of millions. Why is it so stupid to lie?
      1. hhhhhhh
        hhhhhhh 30 January 2021 20: 07
        0
        Didn't you believe in tens of millions then?
        1. The eye of the crying
          The eye of the crying 30 January 2021 20: 09
          -1
          I wrote what I didn't believe.
          1. hhhhhhh
            hhhhhhh 30 January 2021 20: 10
            0
            sorry I did not get it. What didn't you believe?
            1. The eye of the crying
              The eye of the crying 30 January 2021 20: 14
              -1
              Quote: Eye of the Crying
              Notebooks with tens of millions
              1. hhhhhhh
                hhhhhhh 30 January 2021 20: 24
                0
                Solzhenitsyn wrote about tens of millions, and the archipelago was reprinted. so quite. What prevented you from writing out in a notebook from there?
                1. The eye of the crying
                  The eye of the crying 30 January 2021 20: 35
                  -1
                  Take the trouble to formulate your understanding of the phrase "notebooks with tens of millions of those shot, listing all the marshals."
                  1. hhhhhhh
                    hhhhhhh 30 January 2021 20: 38
                    0
                    "notebooks with tens of millions of those shot, listing all the marshals" - there is only about the lists of marshals. You need to read more carefully.)))
                    1. The eye of the crying
                      The eye of the crying 30 January 2021 20: 40
                      -1
                      Quote: hhhhhhh
                      You need to read more carefully.)))


                      In case you didn't understand, this was a quote. You should have read it and formulated your understanding. You couldn't.
                      1. hhhhhhh
                        hhhhhhh 30 January 2021 20: 42
                        0
                        I even wrote about the source.))) In notebooks they wrote about tens of millions of victims, which was an outright lie. We realized lies about 5-15 years ago.
                      2. The eye of the crying
                        The eye of the crying 30 January 2021 20: 51
                        -1
                        Quote: hhhhhhh
                        They wrote in notebooks about tens of millions of victims, which was an outright lie


                        How do you know what they wrote there.

                        Quote: hhhhhhh
                        We realized lies about 5-15 years ago.


                        Well, wow you brakes. Or are you 15 years old? That would explain why you write so many parentheses.
                      3. hhhhhhh
                        hhhhhhh 30 January 2021 20: 56
                        0
                        I lived in those days.
                        Since when did you learn that Solzhenitsyn is a liar? Pu to ref on monuments opens and DR Solzhenitsyin notes.
                        If you knew why you didn't tell me?
                      4. The eye of the crying
                        The eye of the crying 30 January 2021 20: 58
                        -1
                        Quote: hhhhhhh
                        I lived in those days.


                        In which? 5 years ago?

                        Quote: hhhhhhh
                        Since when did you learn that Solzhenitsyn is a liar?


                        I don't give a damn about Solzhenitsyn, I haven't read the Gulag Archipelago either. And Zemskov's works are soon already 30 years old.
                      5. hhhhhhh
                        hhhhhhh 30 January 2021 21: 00
                        0
                        "When I studied at a university in the 80s"
                        Zemsky who is he? Who knows him besides you?
                        Do you want to say our Sun, since it goes to DR Solzhenitsyn?