Military Review

From bayonet mount to rifle-type "universal". Bayonet history

189

The famous expression of Alexander Suvorov about the stupidity of the bullet and the youthfulness of the bayonet is known, of course, to everyone. And how was this most steel and deadly "fellow" born? How has it changed and evolved over the centuries of its use on battlefields around the world?


Last chance weapon


With the appearance in the arsenal of medieval infantrymen of the first samples of firearms weapons, which forced the musketeers and fusiliers to hand over their usual pikes and other samples of long edged weapons to warehouses, the question arose of what should they do if the trigger was pulled, and the advancing enemy did not think to die? Let me remind you that the procedure for loading the then samples of fire was so complicated, laborious and time-consuming that an enemy armed with a saber could easily chop a shooter into a cabbage long before it was over. Especially if, at the same time, he was sitting on a frisky horse ...

With what their creators did not try to cross the first guns! Attached to their muzzles, axes (and similar chopping blades) turned the weapon into some monstrous semblance of a halberd, not suitable for either shooting or melee.

The matter was resolved when someone came up with the idea of ​​simply shoving the most ordinary dagger with a handle of a suitable diameter into the barrel of a musket. Either it was a gunsmith from the city of Bayonne, or (according to other versions) it happened during a battle near this settlement ... One way or another, but the first prototypes of bayonets were called "bayonet", which was later transformed into "baguette".

At the same time, the first version most likely corresponds to the truth. Since the bayonets were originally an attribute of hunting equipment. They were applied as

"Last chance weapon"

in a fight with a large beast, which had to be tried to keep at a distance. And only after that they appeared in the army.

A role here was played by the fact that the first samples, for example, of muskets were so heavy that they were not suitable for hand-to-hand combat. However, with a blade inserted into the barrel, they allowed the infantry formation to repel a cavalry attack, which was previously stopped by exceptionally long pikes.

The first massive use of bayonets in the army dates back to about the second half of the XNUMXth century.

Varieties


Time passed, firearms were improved, they became lighter and more convenient. Its loading time was reduced to such limits, which the musketeers could not even dream of. But the bayonet was still there.

At the same time, the most, perhaps, serious change took place in its design - a tube with a slot appeared, which made it possible not to drive a bayonet into the barrel of a weapon, but to put it on over it. From that moment on, the bayonet ceased to be a hindrance to shooting. And in many armies of the world, he was constantly in arms, especially in a combat situation.

To this day, there are disputes over which of the bayonets is more effective - ours, Russian, needle type (such bayonets could have three or four edges, or a T-shaped section)? Or is it still widespread in the armed forces of Europe, USA, Japan

"Underbarrel cleaver"?

You can argue here endlessly.

A bayonet, which can be used not only for stabbing, but also for cutting and even chopping, is of course more versatile. However, in this case, I recommend that you consult with a specialist - any surgeon who will quickly explain to you the difference between the wounds inflicted by each of the mentioned types of bayonets. About the same as with a sword and a rapier: one well-aimed prick - and death ...

In addition, the needle bayonet, which "held out" in our army longer than in all the others (the Nazis were also planted on it!), Was lighter and stronger (with a sufficiently large length) than the blade bayonet. And just the length of the rifle with a bayonet was of critical importance in repelling cavalry attacks.

In European armies, they also began to switch to cleavers under the trunks from the beginning of the nineteenth century (somewhere since the Crimean War), when the cavalry on the battlefield gradually began to lose its importance.

During the First World War, the process of reverse evolution began for bayonets at all - they began to shorten, literally hacking and cutting.

This was forced by the new reality of the war, in which the hottest battles moved from the "clear field" to trenches, trenches, dugouts and city quarters. It was to that time that the birth of the bayonet-knife, familiar to all military men, can be attributed - a shortened version of the blade-type grenade weapon.

The modern bayonet knife is a deadly and truly versatile product. With its help, it is possible to deal with the enemy quietly, both by joining the weapon and using it as a hand-held cold weapon, and to cut the barbed wire or the communication line. You can also open canned food from dry rations at a halt, as well as perform many more useful actions and manipulations in a soldier's life.

Many wiseacres argued that with the advent of modern automatic weapons, the bayonet would disappear from the army's arsenal, as such.

Since 2010, the US Army has officially abandoned it and removed bayonet combat from the compulsory training program for military personnel.

In our army, perhaps, they will never reach such, to put it mildly, ill-considered decisions.

Our bullets are, of course, "smart" now.

But it is not recommended for any of our potential adversaries to find out in practice what exactly the Russian soldier is capable of doing with his enemy in a bayonet attack.
Author:
Photos used:
Photo from Wikipedia Russian infantry with bayonets attached
189 comments
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  1. polpot
    polpot 15 January 2021 18: 04
    +23
    A very small article, bayonets deserve a more detailed narration.
    1. nnm
      nnm 15 January 2021 18: 10
      +17
      And I would very much like to see illustrations.
    2. dgonni
      dgonni 15 January 2021 18: 45
      +15
      More precisely a whole dissertation! Over the centuries, the bayonet has acquired variegated and bizarre outlines, as for modern understanding.
      1. Crowe
        Crowe 15 January 2021 19: 00
        +23
        Quote: polpot
        A very short article, bayonets deserve a more detailed narration

        Quote: nnm
        And I would very much like to see illustrations.

        I agree entirely ... Well, let's get out of the situation ourselves somehow, since the author was too lazy (as always) to do it.

        "Hurray! .. We'll hit three at once
        No wonder our triangular bayonet!
        Hurray will blow off over the Caucasus,
        The same click will burst into Europe! "
        Fyodor Glinka

        “If, for example, you flick, flick mentally, because fencing in battle is the first thing, and, most importantly, remember that you need to stab the enemy on a full lunge, in the chest, with a short blow, and pull the bayonet out of his chest shortly ... Remember: shortly back from the chest, so that he does not grab his hand ... That's it! R-times - full lunge and r-times-shortly back. Then r-one-two! R-one-two! Tap shortly with your foot, frighten him, enemy p-one-d-two! "

        So, according to the memoirs of Vladimir Gilyarovsky, non-commissioned officer Yermilov, "a great master of his craft," taught soldiers to bayonet.
    3. The leader of the Redskins
      The leader of the Redskins 15 January 2021 19: 22
      +19
      As always, the author's content is crumpled and not revealed. Title - you can write a book! And on the face - a few paragraphs of common phrases. I hope that later on, someone from the more professional authors will master this cycle.
      1. mr.ZinGer
        mr.ZinGer 15 January 2021 19: 27
        +5
        Hope for comments
        1. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 15 January 2021 20: 23
          +10
          Hope for comments

          and they should be left altogether to this creation? I wrote at the bottom. I hope they won't get banned .... Regards.
    4. The comment was deleted.
    5. mr.ZinGer
      mr.ZinGer 15 January 2021 19: 38
      +14
      You are a well-mannered person
      The article is just crappy.
    6. Bar1
      Bar1 15 January 2021 19: 45
      -1
      bayonet type is a German word, but actually Russian.
      -the bayonet is tyk.
    7. riwas
      riwas 16 January 2021 05: 51
      +5
      Here is a more informative old article on VO "Bayonet. Terrible weapon of the Russian soldier".
      https://topwar.ru/150885-strashnoe-oruzhie-russkogo-soldata-shtykovaja-ataka.html
  2. Bashkirkhan
    Bashkirkhan 15 January 2021 18: 12
    +19
    I recalled an excerpt from Remarque's novel All Quiet on the Western Front:
    "We examine the bayonets ourselves. The fact is that some bayonets have teeth on the back of the blade, like a saw. If one of ours gets caught on the other side with such a thing, he will not escape reprisals. At the next site, the bodies of our the soldiers who were missing after the battle, they cut off their ears and gouged out their eyes with this saw, then they stuffed their mouth and nose with sawdust so that they suffocated.
    Some recruits also have bayonets of this pattern; we take these bayonets from them and get others for them.
    However, the bayonet has largely lost its meaning. Now a new fashion has gone to go on the attack: some take with them only hand grenades and a shovel. A well-honed shovel is a lighter and more versatile weapon, it can not only be poked from below, under the chin, but first of all it can be used to cut with a swing. The blow turns out to be more weighty, especially if it is applied from the side, at an angle, between the shoulder and the neck; then you can easily cut the person to the chest. When pricked with a bayonet, it often gets stuck; to pull it out, you need to force your foot into the opponent's stomach, and in the meantime, you yourself can be freely treated with a bayonet. Besides, he sometimes also breaks off. "
    1. dgonni
      dgonni 15 January 2021 18: 48
      +12
      Erich Maria Remarque was still a stormtrooper. A kind of prototype of modern special forces units.
      He has seen bloodsheds, Mama do not worry. Otsel and his books.
      1. Ryazan87
        Ryazan87 16 January 2021 00: 11
        +8
        "Taki" Erich Maria spent less than one and a half months at the front (June-July 1917) in the 15th Reserve Infantry Regiment. He was not any stormtrooper. He was wounded and then rolled around in hospitals.
    2. hohol95
      hohol95 15 January 2021 20: 31
      +12

      And these are Russian soldiers, but not with "Mosinka".
  3. Dimide
    Dimide 15 January 2021 18: 14
    +3
    I read that the needle bayonet often got stuck in the body of the enemy and I had to make remarkable efforts to pull it out. I don't remember the source, but something from the memoirs
    1. dgonni
      dgonni 15 January 2021 18: 51
      +15
      I do not know. I have never heard this. With my former boss, my father fought on the Nevsky patch. 5 bayonets. He laid down 11 Germans with a bayonet. 5 in one battle. Over a cup of admiral's seagull, he did not remember our bayonet in the plan to pull it out!
      1. Dimide
        Dimide 15 January 2021 19: 06
        +2
        Something related to getting into the chest, don't "try" I don't remember
        1. Podvodnik
          Podvodnik 15 January 2021 19: 30
          +15
          into the chest


          I heard a veteran's story about his first bayonet. Very emotional. Intercepted the German blow and lunged back. The bayonet entered without resistance. But the strength was such that the barrel of the rifle went right through. Do not pull it back out because of the front sight. The second German was about to "take revenge", well the foreman helped out with a butt. Then he explained that the bayonet should be light.
          According to the veteran, everything was in a kind of insane state of constant inner cry and tension.

          I think that those who have gone through a bayonet fight will never be able to forget it. Because it is "eye to eye".
          1. hohol95
            hohol95 15 January 2021 20: 18
            +11
            From the movie "Walking in Torment" I remember only the words of a Red Guard student who stabbed his opponent. Shocked, he muttered - "I prick him, but he is soft ..."
            1. sen
              sen 16 January 2021 06: 10
              +8
              I stab him and he is soft

              Because according to the old instructions, you need to inject in the stomach. Then the butt goes down and the bayonet pierces the diaphragm and enters the chest. European countries considered this method barbaric and even persuaded the king to change the instructions, but in the localities they still taught in the old way.
              1. Kwas
                Kwas 18 January 2021 16: 57
                0
                If you hit your stomach with a bayonet, you need to easily pull it out, without further tricks - no longer!
          2. Pane Kohanku
            Pane Kohanku 16 January 2021 14: 17
            +2
            According to the veteran, everything was in a kind of insane state of constant inner cry and tension.

            yes, I saw this video. You can search on YouTube.
        2. Ryazan87
          Ryazan87 16 January 2021 00: 14
          +4
          It can get stuck in the ribs, In general, the needle tetrahedron fits well, there only give a "poke". This is the kind of thing that nothing else can be done but kill). But why stick in the bones? The belly is soft - much more effective.
          1. Pane Kohanku
            Pane Kohanku 16 January 2021 14: 19
            +1
            In general, the needle tetrahedron fits well, there only give a "poke".

            Nikita, again, has not considered why the pieces were sharpened "flat". Not all facets. I read somewhere so that I would not get stuck in the ribs. drinks
            In general, the Russian bayonet is a separate epic. For a very good cycle. Who else would have written it ... request
      2. mr.ZinGer
        mr.ZinGer 15 January 2021 19: 29
        +9
        Are you serious, 5 bayonets ...
        One is enough!
        1. dgonni
          dgonni 15 January 2021 20: 08
          +9
          They didn't ask him on Nevsky!
      3. Krasnodar
        Krasnodar 15 January 2021 20: 15
        +10
        Quote: dgonni
        I do not know. I have never heard this. With my former boss, my father fought on the Nevsky patch. 5 bayonets. He laid down 11 Germans with a bayonet. 5 in one battle. Over a cup of admiral's seagull, he did not remember our bayonet in the plan to pull it out!

        Those who really cut people don't talk about it at all.
        1. dgonni
          dgonni 15 January 2021 23: 49
          +3
          And he did not speak. It was he in his old age after the admiral's seagull, letting out a tear, told.
          He was a strong grandfather. Only in old age did the boy become syntemenal.
          1. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 15 January 2021 23: 52
            +1
            I do not argue about the reliability of your meeting with him hi
      4. Kot_Kuzya
        Kot_Kuzya 16 January 2021 04: 40
        +4
        Quote: dgonni
        Over a cup of the admiral's seagull, he did not remember our bayonet in the plan to pull it out!

        "Survivor's Bug". Those with a bayonet stuck in the body of the enemy became unarmed and were immediately killed by other enemy soldiers.
  4. Terran ghost
    Terran ghost 15 January 2021 19: 19
    +13
    To this day, there are disputes over which of the bayonets is more effective - ours, Russian, needle type (such bayonets could have three or four edges, or a T-shaped section)? Or is it the "underbarrel cleaver" widespread in the armed forces of Europe, the USA, and Japan?

    In addition, "held out" in our army longer than in all the others

    FAQ? An example is the most commonplace. On the domestic (Soviet) rifle SVT-38/40 - a bayonet-knife, on the domestic SKS carbine mod. 1945 - folding, but blade ("knife type") bayonet.
    At the same time, the British rifle Rifle, No. 4 Mk I 1941 model was just a triangular "needle" bayonet. Moreover, Rifle, No. The 4 Mk I EMNIP remained the main armament of the British infantry until around the early 1950s.
    The reason for the transition to bayonet knives is quite simple in fact - starting with the adoption of magazine rifles as the main weapon of an infantryman, a bayonet attack becomes the exception rather than the rule - the time for reloading the weapon between shots becomes too short so that it can be overcome for it at least some noticeable distance to the positions of the enemy troops and engage in hand-to-hand combat. In addition, even when it still came to her, according to the experience of the same World War I, a rifle with a bayonet turned out to be too long to be comfortable to wield. Daggers, cleavers, and even clubs and morgensters turned out to be more convenient ...
    Bayonet-knives, in contrast to needle bayonets, are quite versatile. Not only weapons, but also sometimes a very handy tool for various non-combat missions ...
    1. vladcub
      vladcub 15 January 2021 20: 38
      +8
      Kharluzhny is not given to know
    2. not main
      not main 16 January 2021 03: 09
      0
      Quote: Terran Ghost
      To this day, there are disputes over which of the bayonets is more effective - ours, Russian, needle type (such bayonets could have three or four edges, or a T-shaped section)? Or is it the "underbarrel cleaver" widespread in the armed forces of Europe, the USA, and Japan?

      In addition, "held out" in our army longer than in all the others

      FAQ? An example is the most commonplace. On the domestic (Soviet) rifle SVT-38/40 - a bayonet-knife, on the domestic SKS carbine mod. 1945 - folding, but blade ("knife type") bayonet.
      At the same time, the British rifle Rifle, No. 4 Mk I 1941 model was just a triangular "needle" bayonet. Moreover, Rifle, No. The 4 Mk I EMNIP remained the main armament of the British infantry until around the early 1950s.
      The reason for the transition to bayonet knives is quite simple in fact - starting with the adoption of magazine rifles as the main weapon of an infantryman, a bayonet attack becomes the exception rather than the rule - the time for reloading the weapon between shots becomes too short so that it can be overcome for it at least some noticeable distance to the positions of the enemy troops and engage in hand-to-hand combat. In addition, even when it still came to her, according to the experience of the same World War I, a rifle with a bayonet turned out to be too long to be comfortable to wield. Daggers, cleavers, and even clubs and morgensters turned out to be more convenient ...
      Bayonet-knives, in contrast to needle bayonets, are quite versatile. Not only weapons, but also sometimes a very handy tool for various non-combat missions ...

      Chago? Yes, I served in the 80s with SKS and a needle bayonet!
      1. CTABEP
        CTABEP 16 January 2021 14: 27
        +3
        SCS has options with this and that. With the blade, I saw him quite well in 2009 :)
  5. mr.ZinGer
    mr.ZinGer 15 January 2021 19: 23
    +15
    Haraluzhny breaks the bottom once again.

    .
    1. antivirus
      antivirus 15 January 2021 21: 52
      +4
      "galley slave"
      Kalikchestvo rules the show. the whole team of authors drives the number. gives us a reason to feel like experts. this is how detectives build a tempting plot, according to the level of the audience and the complexity of the plot + a little more difficult for intrigue. not everything is clear and at the same time intriguing "you guess correctly" - "soon the denouement and you will be right, maybe you have almost guessed everything .."
      and the author "on horseback" - he kept the audience
  6. Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I 15 January 2021 19: 33
    +5
    1. ... the needle bayonet will constantly stick ... A very bold statement! According to the charter, they could require "constant wearing" ...; but in practice they often unlocked and carried a bayonet in a special sheath!
    In China, the integral-folding needle bayonet has been used for a very long time on AK-47 assault rifles ... I think, even now in the warehouses for the militia there is a fig of such a "rarity" ...
    1. hohol95
      hohol95 15 January 2021 20: 21
      +3
      Do you have a sample of the scabbard for the bayonet rifles "Berdan" "Mosinka"? Only not made by Germans or Austrians for trophy rifles. And domestic - Russian or Soviet !!!
      1. Nikolaevich I
        Nikolaevich I 15 January 2021 21: 20
        +2
        I don't remember right away ... it is necessary to joke in the "archive" ... I recall that I met infa on the scabbard, but I didn't think only about domestic ones!
    2. hohol95
      hohol95 15 January 2021 20: 27
      +4
      Was the Soviet AK taken on the arm of the PLA? Or are they their "clones" of Soviet weapons named after their own? On their carbines (descendants of SKS) Type 56, 63, instead of an integral bladed bayonet, there was a triangular needle bayonet.
      1. Nikolaevich I
        Nikolaevich I 15 January 2021 21: 16
        +3
        Of course, these were "clones" ... I was too lazy to "remember" Chinese names ... request
        1. hohol95
          hohol95 15 January 2021 21: 21
          +4
          Then you can be "lazy" further.
          But the army of the Russian Empire and the Red Army never had a scabbard for needle bayonets. They always had to be sided with rifles! And only after capturing many Russian rifles did the Germans begin to distribute them to their own soldiers. And they had to make a scabbard for Russian needle bayonets! They then joined the bayonet only before the attack ...
          1. Pane Kohanku
            Pane Kohanku 15 January 2021 21: 33
            +5
            there was no scabbard for needle bayonets

            Wrong, Alexey. In the cavalry of the Red Army, the bayonet sheath was attached to the saber sheath. So - yes, it was. drinks
            1. hohol95
              hohol95 15 January 2021 21: 36
              0
              I saw a saber with a bayonet. But show me the infantryman's scabbard ...
              Or a cavalryman of the imperial army!
              1. Pane Kohanku
                Pane Kohanku 15 January 2021 21: 40
                +2
                But show me the infantryman's scabbard ...

                This is yes. But Isaev has a photo in some book where the Germans are examining the captured Red Army saber, and he pays attention to attaching the bayonet to the scabbard. yes
                1. hohol95
                  hohol95 15 January 2021 21: 50
                  0
                  But no one can present the scabbard to the rifles of the "Berdan" system. In general, I doubt the presence in the Russian army of those for any muskets, rifles and rifles after the transition from a baguette to an attached bayonet. [b] I may be wrong, but the bulk of domestic small arms have always been used with a permanently attached bayonet. [b] And no one wanted to give it up. If I'm wrong, say so!
                  1. Ryazan87
                    Ryazan87 16 January 2021 00: 34
                    +11
                    There was a scabbard for bayonets in RIA, of course:
                    Order for the Military Department of November 30.11.1899, XNUMX

                    "Infantry bayonet scabbards are made of white yuft leather with a width of 2 3/8 mm.
                    The scabbard is cut out of one piece of leather, which is folded along the length, facing outward, into a rectangular rectangular pyramid tapering to the bottom, and sewn along the lobar (side) edge into the butt edge.
                    To wear the scabbard on their back walls, it is sewn with a bakhtarma outward, with two through transverse stitches and one shared stitch that constitutes a continuation of the scabbard seam, a leather belt. The sewn end of this belt is placed on the scabbard 3/8 vert, while the upper end of the belt is bent over with its face outward and sewn to the belt with a through stitching, forming a loop about 1 3/8 inches long. "




                    1. Mordvin 3
                      Mordvin 3 16 January 2021 02: 49
                      0
                      Quote: Ryazanets87
                      "Infantry bayonet scabbards are made of white yuft leather with a width of 2 3/8 mm.
                      The scabbard is cut out of one piece of leather that is folded along the length of the face

                      Hehe ... laughing
                    2. hohol95
                      hohol95 17 January 2021 20: 05
                      0
                      Thanks for the great answer with such complete information! But still, it seems that such a scabbard was not 100% spread! And 50% is also doubtful. Perhaps their use was influenced by the Russo-Japanese War.
                      1. Ryazan87
                        Ryazan87 17 January 2021 21: 51
                        +2
                        The uniform and equipment of the Russian army of the last 30 years of the Empire - some kind of constant throwing - with a general trend towards economy and "rogue" style. They could not figure out the duffel bags, they invented everything (there were at least 4 samples for WWII, not counting the sapper), with bowlers - it is difficult to come up with a more inconvenient form. Also, the floors of the greatcoat were pushed into it while rolling (the dirtiest part). At the same time, surprisingly, they widely used aluminum, which they did not really produce themselves.
                        Covers (scabbards) were also in the same "parade", and during the guard they were used quite for themselves. But to the PMA, yes, it began to make sense to lose - if the rifle is all the time with a bayonet attached, then why should the scabbard (by the way, they did not reach such foolishness in 1812, despite the much greater importance of edged weapons).
                        If you look at any authentic drawings and paintings on the Napoleonic, you will find the bayonet scabbard without any problems - they were attached to an infantry cleaver.
                      2. hohol95
                        hohol95 17 January 2021 22: 25
                        +1
                        Yeah. In terms of economy, this is at the genetic level. Especially for those who are not used to saving on themselves and do not like. So they did the same with the army, and with other security officials of the Empire. And up to were saved.
            2. Mordvin 3
              Mordvin 3 16 January 2021 02: 47
              +1
              Quote: hohol95
              But show me the infantryman's scabbard ...
              Or a cavalryman of the imperial army!

              And what for?
              1. hohol95
                hohol95 17 January 2021 20: 05
                0
                And just like that.
        2. Nikolaevich I
          Nikolaevich I 15 January 2021 22: 49
          +3
          Quote: hohol95
          the army of the Russian Empire and the Red Army never had a sheath for needle bayonets

          I repeat once again ...: when I wrote about the scabbard for needle bayonets, I thought about the bayonets of the Russian army least of all (!) ... it just happened! In addition, he meant the bayonets of the 18th century ... Below are images of bayonets and scabbards, of course, of a later time ...
          .

          As for the 30s of the 20th century, I now remember that in the Red Army, open needle bayonets were attached to rifles (if I am not mistaken, to the ramrod ...)
          1. hohol95
            hohol95 15 January 2021 23: 02
            +1
            Maybe on the barrel, but with the point down? The honpol is clearly smaller in outer diameter than the rifle barrel. And the bayonet tube is racked to mount on the svol. It will dangle on the ramrod.
            1. Nikolaevich I
              Nikolaevich I 15 January 2021 23: 07
              +3
              Quote: hohol95
              Maybe on the barrel, but with the point down?

              Perhaps .... I have already forgotten this information ... it has not been in demand for a long time! You can search the archive, but now there is simply no time! request
              1. Pane Kohanku
                Pane Kohanku 15 January 2021 23: 44
                +6
                Maybe on the barrel, but with the point down?

                Guys, on the barrel, but they turned on the barrel behind the front sight. Like so. It is necessary to find Shpakovsky's articles - "The same age as the German Mauser" - for 2017. And VikNik then wrote a sequel about the bayonet for the "three-line" and other nuances. drinks
                1. Nikolaevich I
                  Nikolaevich I 15 January 2021 23: 59
                  +4
                  Quote: Pane Kohanku
                  VikNik then wrote a sequel about the bayonet for the "three-line" and other nuances.

                  There is a book by A.S. Yushchenko "Rifle model 1891/30 and its varieties" 2018 You can also see ...
                2. Nikolaevich I
                  Nikolaevich I 16 January 2021 00: 20
                  +3
                  Quote: Pane Kohanku
                  Guys, on the barrel, but they turned on the barrel behind the front sight

                  Yes, there was also an option for attaching to the barrel ... yes
                  1. Pane Kohanku
                    Pane Kohanku 16 January 2021 00: 29
                    +3
                    Yes, there was also an option for attaching to the barrel ...

                    Vladimir, I may be wrong, but it seems that bayonets were not attached to the three-ruler to the ramrod ... what drinks
                    1. Nikolaevich I
                      Nikolaevich I 16 January 2021 09: 43
                      +3
                      Quote: Pane Kohanku
                      to the ramrod, it seems, the bayonets were not attached to the three-ruler ...

                      From one of the forums ...

                      Alex Ivov 19-10-2010 12:17
                      Recently I talked with one WWII veteran (honored person, graduated from the school on May 15, 1941, now a general, participated in battles since July 41, battles near Chausy, as part of the 132nd SD). When asked how the bayonet was worn, he replied that the bayonet was worn with a tube on a ramrod, the tip was threaded into the upper strap of the gun belt. Having a bayonet in a similar position, they fired and moved in the trenches, on the march. Immediately before the attack, at the turn, the command was given to "join the bayonets"). Later, in one of the war photo albums, he was convinced of the veteran's words - he found a photo from the Leningrad front, where the Red Navy men are depicted with bayonets secured in the above way.
                      -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      In the film "They Fought for the Motherland" there is repeatedly a bayonet dressed on the barrel with a point to the butt. By the way, there is such a "form": According to the Maritime Department in 1887, the highest order was to "remove the bayonet scabbard, which is now included in the equipment of the lower ranks, and in tѣh in cases when on ships the lower ranks must be with open bayonets, then have bayonets put on the upper muzzle of the gun, sharp down, to the ramrod. "It was possible" this and that "... Doubts about the ramrod are understandable (!) (The "calibers" are different ...) But there were also orders from the "authorities" ... either permitting attaching the bayonet to the ramrod, or prohibiting it due to the frequent loss of bayonets with this method of attaching the bayonet ...
            2. Nikolaevich I
              Nikolaevich I 16 January 2021 00: 04
              +3
              Quote: hohol95
              the bayonet tube is racked to mount on the svol. It will dangle on the ramrod.



              1. Mordvin 3
                Mordvin 3 16 January 2021 03: 05
                +1
                Here, damn it ... I scrambled an article about scabbards and checkers about five years ago ... I forgot about everything ... what
              2. Mordvin 3
                Mordvin 3 16 January 2021 03: 15
                0
                This is complete nonsense. Cossacks from the KKV wrote to the amperage about daggers. For three years we wrote about rivets, etc.
  7. Ryazan87
    Ryazan87 16 January 2021 00: 21
    +2
    What's so bold? Not just what they demanded, but the rifle was shot with a bayonet attached.
  8. Terran ghost
    Terran ghost 16 January 2021 14: 35
    0
    1. ... the needle bayonet will constantly join ... Quite a bold statement! According to the charter, they could require "constant wearing" ...; but in practice they often unlocked and carried a bayonet in a special sheath!

    The problem is not that the rifle bayonet arr. 1891/1930 could not be removed for convenience in field conditions. The problem was that the rifle was shot with a bayonet. It was definitely impossible to shoot without him. And with him - not only was the rifle more than one and a half meters long, but also the bayonet attached to the side worsened the weight distribution of the weapon and negatively affected the accuracy of shooting.
    1. Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I 16 January 2021 18: 35
      +2
      Quote: Terran Ghost
      the rifle was shot with a bayonet. It was definitely impossible to shoot without him.

      Since the Second World War, there has been a huge amount of photographs and testimonies where the Red Army soldiers shoot (fight) from "mosins" without bayonets! yes
    2. svp67
      svp67 16 January 2021 18: 38
      +1
      Quote: Terran Ghost
      The problem was that the rifle was shot with a bayonet. It was definitely impossible to shoot without him.

      And what prevented her from being shot WITHOUT a bayonet, due to his absence? Bayonets were very often lost and broken.
      In addition, there were quite a few sniper rifles and carbines, the latter were so massively used to equip the infantry in 1944, and this carbine already had a bayonet that folds to the side
  • Gippo
    Gippo 15 January 2021 19: 33
    +11
    Awesome post, I shield.!
    Such an abundance of rare photos and videos!
    Not everyone can find them, the bayonet is very super secret.
  • nonsense
    nonsense 15 January 2021 20: 10
    +12
    The modern bayonet knife is a deadly and truly versatile product. With its help, it is possible to deal with the enemy quietly, both by joining the weapon and using it as a hand-held cold weapon, and to cut the barbed wire or the communication line. You can also open canned food from dry rations at a halt, as well as perform many more useful actions and manipulations in a soldier's life.

    modern bayonet - overweight and anachronism. As a melee weapon (no submachine gun) it just sucks. Does not cut or prick. With its help, barbed wire can be cut only on some state farm - it simply will not take wire made of normal materials for the military (checked). Communication lines are now more and more wireless, dry food canned food has self-opening lids (a knife is not required). Well, why is he needed "in a soldier's life"?
    With the advent of automatic weapons, it is unlikely to reach the distance of a bayonet strike on the enemy. And it is simply impossible to break through the NIB (bulletproof vest and helmet), which are now mandatory for a soldier. So why would a soldier in battle then?
    For the guard duty? Having an automatic weapon and still relying on a bayonet and threatening them? - And then let’s give out spears and halberds to the guards - it will be even worse! :)
    1. Was mammoth
      Was mammoth 15 January 2021 23: 00
      +4
      Quote: nespich
      For the guard duty?

      During my service, a soldier received leave and a camera for a number of violations of guard duty. wink
      Convicts escaped and decided to acquire weapons. We decided to attack the sentry in the nearest unit. And he... . At night SKS on the shoulder, bayonet down, the cartridge in the chamber and the SKS is removed from the fuse! Turned the corner and got a knife in the stomach. The result - one was killed with a bayonet, another shot, the sentry himself was sent to the hospital ..
      Previously, there was a sport - fencing with rifles. Our battalion commander was able, taught something. wink ... His SKS flew in the air for almost half the time. belay By the way, not only the bayonet and butt are used, but also other parts of the weapon.
      He served with SKS with a knife-type bayonet, but saw also needle bayonets. I don't think there were Chinese SCS in the Soviet army.
      Quote: Denimax
      I believe that a puncture wound, in contrast to a stab wound, is less painful ...

      In vain! The hole, in contrast to the flat wound, is worse.
      In the XNUMXth century, Russian soldiers were taught to pull out the bayonet by turning the rifle along the axis. The wound was fatal.
      1. Pane Kohanku
        Pane Kohanku 15 January 2021 23: 39
        +2
        His SKS flew in the air for almost half the time.

        At the turn of the 70s and 80s, my father went to parades along the Palace Square. He graduated from the railway school. He said that for the construction of the SCS it is better to lie in your hands.
        He served with SKS with a knife-type bayonet, but saw also needle bayonets.

        It could not have been a carbine mod. 1944? On the basis of the "three-line"? There was a built-in folding needle bayonet. drinks
        1. Was mammoth
          Was mammoth 15 January 2021 23: 53
          +2
          Quote: Pane Kohanku
          It could not have been a carbine mod. 1944? On the basis of the "three-line"? There was a built-in folding needle bayonet.

          SCS were for sure. They differed only in years. More precisely, I will not say. A lot of water has flowed under the bridge Although the numbers of my SKS and gas masks I still use as passwords. wink .
          I respect SKS. Serious weapon.
          Quote: Pane Kohanku
          At the turn of the 70s and 80s, my father went to parades on Dvortsovaya Street.

          Pay attention somehow that drill techniques with SCS statutory and what you see at parades are partially different. wink At least- "On the shoulder".
          drinks
          1. Pane Kohanku
            Pane Kohanku 16 January 2021 00: 05
            +2
            At least- "On the shoulder".

            I confess I did not hold the SCS. sad I fired from rifles only from SVD - without a sniper scope, three rounds per 100 meters, all hit. And next to us at the shooting range, a colonel-teacher was shooting an artillery carbine model 1938 - he bought it like a hunting weapon. yes It was 2001, spring.
            1. Was mammoth
              Was mammoth 16 January 2021 00: 14
              +3
              Quote: Pane Kohanku
              I confess I did not hold the SCS.

              We were shooting at 100 and 200 meters. At 100 meters, not to hit at least the eight from a prone position, you have to shoot with your eyes closed ... wink
              1. Pane Kohanku
                Pane Kohanku 16 January 2021 00: 25
                +4
                At 100m not to hit at least the eight from a prone position, you must shoot with your eyes closed ...

                I was in the wrong service .. served! They taught us more from the pistol as cadets. They fired from the PM, from Margolin, from the shortened Margolin, even from a revolver - as many as once, three rounds. Already in service they fired from TT - there were more cartridges for it than for the PM. drinks
                1. Was mammoth
                  Was mammoth 16 January 2021 00: 29
                  +1
                  Quote: Pane Kohanku
                  I was in the wrong service .. served!

                  On the contrary, I almost never fired pistols. wink
                  He did not serve in the infantry. wink
                  1. Pane Kohanku
                    Pane Kohanku 16 January 2021 00: 34
                    +2
                    He did not serve in the infantry.

                    Yes, me too .. well .. in another service. drinks
                    1. Was mammoth
                      Was mammoth 16 January 2021 00: 49
                      +2
                      Quote: Pane Kohanku
                      Yes, me too .. well .. in another service.

                      He served in the air defense, but we were with a carbine almost constantly. 1-2 alarms a week, sometimes more, 1-2 guards. But in the battalion of protection and chemical protection they were cooler. wink
                      Those, in general, were called "every other day on the belt."
                      drinks
                      1. Pane Kohanku
                        Pane Kohanku 16 January 2021 00: 56
                        +2
                        He served in the air defense, but we were with a carbine almost constantly.

                        My friend Anton "3x3zsave" (you can see the comments) also served in air defense. I think you will find a lot in common for good communication! drinks Good people in general should communicate and find a common language ... IMHO, despite the differences in views, age and place of residence! good Glad to communicate, Nikolay! drinks
                      2. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 16 January 2021 08: 30
                        +1
                        And we gave out nine cartridges. Three singles, and the rest in bursts.
                      3. Pane Kohanku
                        Pane Kohanku 16 January 2021 14: 15
                        +1
                        And we gave out nine cartridges. Three singles, and the rest in bursts.

                        Uh-huh. As many as two or three times so I shot laughing drinks that's all my acquaintance with a machine gun - in shooting.
                    2. Was mammoth
                      Was mammoth 16 January 2021 10: 45
                      +2
                      I agree. Glad to communicate! : drinks
                    3. Pane Kohanku
                      Pane Kohanku 16 January 2021 14: 15
                      +1
                      I agree. Glad to communicate! :

                      Will live! drinks
    2. Terran ghost
      Terran ghost 16 January 2021 14: 40
      0
      I respect SKS. Serious weapon.

      What exactly is considered a serious weapon and what is not? Evaluative is actually a concept, IMHO.
      But in general, EMNIP, among hunters (including professional fishermen), SCS is still appreciated. And in general - the carbine has a fairly accurate fight, if it is regularly and often cleaned and lubricated - it is quite reliable in operation (the sensitivity of the mechanism to the effects of dirt and dust / sand is certainly higher than on the same extremely sealed receiver AR15 / M16 named after Comrade Y. Stoner, but on the whole it seems quite acceptable indicators).
      Of the minuses offhand, only the absence of a carbine for optics on a standard military (and still fenced-off Soviet series, on which the bayonet was actually removed), but the EMNIP modern hunting options do not have this drawback.
      1. Was mammoth
        Was mammoth 16 January 2021 15: 48
        0
        Quote: Terran Ghost
        What exactly is considered a serious weapon and what is not? Evaluative is actually a concept, IMHO.

        YOU asked a question and answered it yourself. wink
      2. Was mammoth
        Was mammoth 16 January 2021 16: 13
        +1
        Quote: Terran Ghost
        What exactly is considered a serious weapon and what is not? Evaluative is actually a concept, IMHO.

        Something went wrong. wink There was only a small part of the answer. wink
        Add.
        I'm not a gunsmith. I spent a little less time with SKS than in the army without him. I trust him, and his bayonet, the hero of the article. I will clip it at once and now, I think, I will. If I happen to get in line, I will no doubt trust him with my life.
        Everybody gets old. And weapons too. SCS time is running out.
        The weapon is not a girl or a child, but it must be loved and looked after. wink
        PS Optics for mid-20th century mass weapons is strong. Then the bayonet was still very much needed. wink
  • Krasnodar
    Krasnodar 15 January 2021 20: 13
    +4
    In modern combat, the bayonet attack is a very formidable and deadly tactical technique, deadly, above all, for the attackers yes
    1. Pane Kohanku
      Pane Kohanku 15 January 2021 20: 22
      +3
      In modern combat, the bayonet attack is a very formidable and deadly tactical technique, deadly, above all, for the attackers

      You will be pardoned, but I am not, dear friend. Look at my comment - under yours. drinks
  • Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku 15 January 2021 20: 15
    +17
    However, in this case, I recommend that you consult with a specialist - any surgeon who will quickly explain to you the difference between the wounds inflicted by each of the mentioned types of bayonets.

    I do not put pluses. I have a counter offer. Dear Mr. Vadim Smirnov (I don’t know about the priest, I sincerely apologize for this!), Dear moderators, I have a request: remove Mr. Kharaluzhny from the "technique" and "history" sections.
    He can be a wonderful emotional JOURNALIST who excites the masses and encourages them to do good, but it is not worth giving such rubrics to such people because of their own knowledge. negative
    medieval infantrymen of the first examples of firearmsme, who forced the musketeers and fusiliers to hand over the usual pikes and other samples of long edged weapons to warehouses

    Who passed? Almost half of the troops at the beginning of the 17th century were pikemen. Let the much-respected author watch the film "Captain Allatriste" for fun. There is even a fight shown. Pica took a very good position in the infantry until the middle of the 18th century. Near Poltava, the first ranks were also occupied by pikemen - on both sides.
    The rest, I say again, is a children's matinee worthy of Yandex Zen or LJ. Rewritten well-known information. Not reviewed - NOTHING. And in my memory, one wonderful person (the best commentator on the site) conducted a study on the Russian bayonet in 2017 on five or six articles. Why was it always attached to a rifle, etc. By the way, there is not a word about this in the “article”.
    That's all I wanted to say. Take away! Let him write about politics. I am absolutely serious, because than to disgrace in knowledge, and to disgrace the site with my lack of knowledge, but the desire to earn a pretty penny - let it benefit the country. Emotional articles on opinions, about politics, etc. I have the honor. With all due respect to the administration, Nikolai. hi
    1. hohol95
      hohol95 15 January 2021 20: 38
      +6
      good good good Eh. Not in the eyebrow, but in the very bull's eye with a log in the middle ...
      And in that bayonet, I remember there was a "hack" about shooting rifles with a bayonet attached ... People reached the laws of physics. And they won't even take this for a story in "Murzilka"!
      1. Pane Kohanku
        Pane Kohanku 15 January 2021 20: 44
        +9
        Eh. Not in the eyebrow, but in the very bull's eye with a log in the middle ...

        Alexei! You remember that back in the 17th our Viktor Nikolayevich published in detail about the bayonet for the "three-ruler".
        Right there, really - nothing! An article to attract the dimwitted. How did the bayonet evolve, why in the Napoleonic wars the infantry had a bayonet, and the rangers had a cleaver (because the gun was shorter), why the bayonet-knife was introduced in foreign armies, and our degenerate generals of Nikolashka's time were afraid, they say, the infantry would take houses - NOTHING of this! But Mr. Haraluzhny will regularly receive money for this ...
        Not ashamed? I would publish a similar opus for free. And this one ..... Ugh! With respect to the administration - I already have a quiet contempt for this individual. I meant no offense! hi
        1. hohol95
          hohol95 15 January 2021 20: 50
          +4
          Were you afraid that they would be taken home? I hear it for the first time. Here the soldiers' boots were regularly sold "on the left" and they themselves complained about the lack of boots or boots. During the First Imperialist! The generals decided that the soldier should have 2 pairs of boots. They gave them their due and sent them to the front. And the soldiers on the way got tired, hungry. Why wear boots when you already have one on your feet? And let's sell public goods. And then the boots ran out ...
          1. Pane Kohanku
            Pane Kohanku 15 January 2021 20: 52
            +5
            And the soldiers on the way got tired, hungry. Why wear boots when you already have one on your feet? And let's sell public goods. And then the boots ran out ...

            It was real. And about cleavers there was a topic before - I bought the magazine "Weapon" in 2012, now he is at work. Probably haraluzhny and haven't read about it ...
            1. hohol95
              hohol95 15 January 2021 20: 54
              +3
              So real that then the same soldiers wove sandals for themselves. The soldiers were just as "tight" with knowledge about the domestic industry as the generals !!!
          2. mr.ZinGer
            mr.ZinGer 15 January 2021 21: 31
            +4
            General Brusilov introduced corporal punishment for this
            1. hohol95
              hohol95 15 January 2021 21: 32
              +3
              It was only too late. hi
              And the military learned that the country lacks a strong shoe industry. Only artels and those made almost all the shoes on wooden nails!
    2. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 15 January 2021 20: 40
      +4
      A neighing? )))
      1. Pane Kohanku
        Pane Kohanku 15 January 2021 20: 48
        +6
        A neighing? )))

        Do you want? He will get a pretty penny for your laugh, wipe himself out, and continue to write like that! request Let Santa Claus work - there will be more benefits! Or some juggler animator. Really, he probably makes more sense!
        Albert! This is history! Why is it presented like this, explain to me? So then they write about haplogroups and racial theories? am
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 15 January 2021 20: 52
          +5
          Quote: Pan Kohanku
          A neighing? )))

          Do you want? He will get a pretty penny for your laugh, wipe himself out, and continue to write like that! request Let Santa Claus work - there will be more benefits! Or some juggler animator. Really, he probably makes more sense!
          Albert! This is history! Why is it presented like this, explain to me? So then they write about haplogroups and racial theories? am

          Fair? Live yourself and let others live. My laugh is worth the money the site founder paid him. hi
          1. Pane Kohanku
            Pane Kohanku 15 January 2021 21: 02
            +10
            Fair? Live yourself and let others live. My laugh is worth the money the site founder paid him.

            No. You cannot replace history with an emotional syllable. Then everyone will cry - why is everything so bad. Because we teach ... here on similar ...
            And then they will come for inappropriate racial theory! And so it will be! If you teach Samsonov and Haraluzhny!
            1. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar 15 January 2021 22: 16
              +3
              I agree, in principle
              1. Pane Kohanku
                Pane Kohanku 15 January 2021 22: 27
                +7
                I agree, in principle

                Yes, because the particular leads to the general. So it will remain .. to listen to buzova, watch TNT, read haraluzhny ... And make clicks to everyone, my dear Man! stop do not worry, it will all be fashionable. request For 80% of the population ... laughing but at the same time we will always look for an external enemy, and live in the middle of a cesspool!
                People! You people, not macaques! fool Get smarter! Read history books, or classical literature, listen to good music, at least ... drinks
                1. Krasnodar
                  Krasnodar 15 January 2021 23: 17
                  +4
                  I completely agree here
                  1. Pane Kohanku
                    Pane Kohanku 15 January 2021 23: 29
                    +4
                    I completely agree here

                    here I am about the same. Don't you think that real African Americans have given the world the greatest legacy - jazz, blues and soul? Ray Charles, Shade, Whitney Houston? A guy younger than you and me - "Trombone Shoti" - plays exciting themes on the trumpet! Tell me why, then, this whole ragged world is fucking rap? Because it's easier ... and more aggressive! negative
                    And I, my dear friend - for real history, culture and art! And then both prosperity and peace of mind will follow! drinks
                    1. Krasnodar
                      Krasnodar 15 January 2021 23: 48
                      +4
                      No, well Rap Eminem and Rap of some 50 cents are still different laughing Like jazz from performer to performer. drinks And I also like Gloria Gainer more than Whitney Houston with her “yu giving mi ex tazi” ...
                      Jazz is prohibition, it’s falling from big bucks into complete poverty, it’s trash. Strong Canadian whiskey and a real first. Collapse and opportunity.
                      Rap is the protest music of African-Americans who grew up on a squalid social network. Or the same white street guys. Simpler, more understandable, there is something to strive for - Tru Religion jeans for 70 thousand, SLS, easy loot.
                      Therefore, Beethoven, Bach, Mozart, Prokofiev and ... Ramstein are closer to me. laughing
                      And Leonard Cohen. fellow
                      1. Pane Kohanku
                        Pane Kohanku 16 January 2021 00: 01
                        +2
                        No, well Rap Eminem and Rap of some 50 cents are still different

                        No, of course, you're right - rap, as an independent phenomenon, has the right to be and be independent. It’s just, apparently, I’m unfashionable beech, and I don’t like everything popular. But you, too, infuriate when some underage youngster gets up in a traffic jam next to you, whose motives of some Afro-Russian are pouring from the speakers, and, moreover, with obscenities? A kind of protest of stupidity ... No.
                        Therefore, Beethoven, Bach, Mozart, Prokofiev are closer to me

                        Here is "absolutely classic" - I confess, I do not listen. recourse But in St. Petersburg we have the Hermitage radio, 90,1, where they play the notorious jazz and blues. I put it in the car - and I spend at least two hours a day on it! drinks
                        Ramshtein

                        And here we are always in the mood! good
                      2. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 16 January 2021 00: 14
                        +5
                        No, well, Russian rap is "Black Boomer Black Boomer Rides around the Village" laughing It pisses me off, especially when tower decibels are erupting from a bespontovoy wheelbarrow. But the rap is not to blame. The congenital redneck is to blame)).
                        Jazz - except for Armstrong, Glen Miller, Utyosov and Ptashka I don't know anyone)).
                        Deutschland, Das Herz in Flammen fellow
                      3. Pane Kohanku
                        Pane Kohanku 16 January 2021 00: 19
                        +4
                        No, well, Russian rap is "Black Boomer Black Boomer Rides around the Village"

                        This is already a Belarusian rap. I mean, not a rap, but a potato. laughing
                        The congenital redneck is to blame)).

                        Multiplied by the feeling of my own inferiority with huge ambitions .. (look, I spoke like Viktor Nikolaevich!) wink
                        Jazz - I don't know anyone except Armstrong, Glen Miller, Utyosov and Ptashka

                        There are other worthy representatives there, moreover, modern ones. And young! Not everything is dead yet ... soldier
                        But this is real music! good

                        Deutschland, Das Herz in Flammen

                        Gasoline and Das Model! good
                        "Brauch Kaine Frau, Nur Vaseline!" wink
                      4. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 16 January 2021 00: 27
                        +4
                        Oh Seryoga, Seryoga laughing
                        Such ambitions are shattered when falling from the height of requests for the number of minutes that the creature is able to hold out in the ring. wink
                        Nicely ))
                        Etvaz Nitroglycerin
                        Ikh brauhe Geld für Gazolin
                        Explosive Vee Kerosine
                        Meath fil Octane und fry von Blya
                        Ainan Kraftstoff vie
                      5. Pane Kohanku
                        Pane Kohanku 16 January 2021 00: 33
                        +2
                        Ainan Kraftstoff vie

                        Benziiiiin! fellow
                        The song is indeed rife with many ugly terms! laughing and in the role of the main terpily in the video, they, as usual, appointed keyboardist Flake ... yes
                      6. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 16 January 2021 00: 34
                        +2
                        Talented guys
                        I like their clip about Snow White the most.
                      7. Pane Kohanku
                        Pane Kohanku 16 January 2021 00: 45
                        +2
                        their clip about Snow White

                        I feel sorry for the courageous but in love gnomes there ... recourse
                        Do you remember the classics? Are the girls in the IDF being driven hard? drinks
                      8. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 16 January 2021 00: 49
                        +2
                        I see it for the first time, to be honest))
                        The absolute majority is not particularly.
                        Those who volunteer for combat units are much less than boys
                        For example - if the guys have a march throw for 39 km, including a 7 km stretcher, they have 10 km and a couple of hundred meters of stretcher (if any). Well, other standards
                      9. Pane Kohanku
                        Pane Kohanku 16 January 2021 00: 58
                        +2
                        I see it for the first time, to be honest))

                        It is clear that when it was a cult song in Russia, you served where you served. laughing
                        Well, other standards

                        Well, Duc, I see ... Girls! love
                      10. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 16 January 2021 01: 03
                        +2
                        Their service in combat units is a bone thrown by the Israeli establishment at feminists. And thrown from undercover - not a fig, we are not equal fellow
                        Crawl in the mud with a machine gun and a XNUMX-kilogram container of water on your back on top of the unloading - and then rassle about gender equality and discrimination against women laughing
                      11. Pane Kohanku
                        Pane Kohanku 16 January 2021 01: 06
                        +2
                        thrown by the Israeli establishment to feminists.

                        And why did I not doubt? wink
                      12. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 16 January 2021 01: 15
                        +2
                        In 1948 they had to fight on a par with the peasants in order to have more rifles per square meter. protection of settlements
                        But then this practice was abandoned
                      13. Pane Kohanku
                        Pane Kohanku 16 January 2021 01: 22
                        +1
                        In 1948 they had to fight on a par with the peasants in order to have more rifles per square meter. protection of settlements

                        Did they have a choice? The survival of the people and the state was at stake there. soldier Especially if you imagine the events of several years ago ...
                        Albert - I respect! Sincerely! soldier
                      14. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 16 January 2021 01: 27
                        +2
                        So it is our own fault - that they did not go in a crowd to build their state immediately after WWI and massively
                      15. Pane Kohanku
                        Pane Kohanku 16 January 2021 01: 31
                        +4
                        So it is our own fault - that they did not go in a crowd to build their state immediately after WWI and massively

                        I do not presume to speak for it. Fair. You know better. hi
                        "Cultured Germans" and their assistants have brought a lot of grief to everyone ... negative More than ours (of all nationalities), apparently, only the Chinese were massacred - but who counted them? request
                      16. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 16 January 2021 01: 33
                        +2
                        No
                        Most Soviet people, then Chinese
                      17. Pane Kohanku
                        Pane Kohanku 16 January 2021 01: 34
                        +1
                        Most Soviet people, then Chinese

                        I did not follow the statistics, but if you said - I will believe ...
  • Korsar4
    Korsar4 16 January 2021 07: 52
    +3
    In general, if you do something, then do it well.
    Especially if you love.

    Perhaps you can write poems of low quality.
    I myself sin. But this is for domestic consumption.

    For the same thing that is work should not be ashamed.

    It doesn't matter: you cook eggs or write an article.

    Another thing is that there may be a path of discipleship.
    1. Pane Kohanku
      Pane Kohanku 16 January 2021 14: 12
      +1
      Perhaps you can write poems of low quality.

      I read. Nobody could write so one poem as you, Sergey. To convey the spirit.
      1. Korsar4
        Korsar4 16 January 2021 14: 38
        +2
        No. It may be interesting for friends.
        And in contrast to real poetry, it is not serious.

        Simple, a notebook element.
        1. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 16 January 2021 14: 41
          +2
          No. It may be interesting for friends.
          And in contrast to real poetry, it is not serious.

          As you can see from my discussion with Albert, I prefer author's, individual things that I put my heart into ... hi Therefore, this "element" is dear!
          1. Korsar4
            Korsar4 16 January 2021 14: 46
            +2
            Even a craft without love rarely brings joy.
            1. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku 16 January 2021 15: 05
              +2
              Even a craft without love rarely brings joy.

              And without inspiration you won't even feel like Dzyuba ... laughing
              Sergei! Unwillingly, Mr. Kharaluzhny provided us with an excellent platform for communication! I mean, I said everything about the article (the bayonet, especially the Russian bayonet, and also the status officer's spears - protazan, esponton and fighter - these are separate cycles, not squeezes), but we had a great chat about everything! good Guys, the world is us. Complex and simple. drinks
            2. Korsar4
              Korsar4 16 January 2021 15: 15
              +2
              It's just that the world is getting closer and more transparent. But I am convinced that there are no chance meetings.
  • mr.ZinGer
    mr.ZinGer 15 January 2021 21: 33
    +2
    You are wrong, there is so much profanation around that it’s no laughing matter ...
    1. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 15 January 2021 23: 17
      +2
      Quote: mr.ZinGer
      You are wrong, there is so much profanation around that it’s no laughing matter ...

      I also agree
      1. Fat
        Fat 16 January 2021 16: 37
        +1
        Albert hi All the same, you need to learn to laugh ... This does not make life easier, of course, but for that the heart is not so rotten and you feel stronger ...
        What an essentially funny life came out
        although ... what could be more beautiful,
        than sitting on a cloud and hanging legs down,
        call each other by name?
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 16 January 2021 16: 40
          +1
          Exactly hi
  • Malyuta
    Malyuta 15 January 2021 23: 22
    +5
    Quote: Pane Kohanku
    Let Santa Claus work - there will be more benefits!

    everyone wants to work as Santa Claus, one day in 364 days good
    1. Pane Kohanku
      Pane Kohanku 15 January 2021 23: 35
      +2
      everyone wants to work as Santa Claus, one day in 364 days

      So I would agree! drinks only these days I "close debts"! request
      1. Malyuta
        Malyuta 15 January 2021 23: 39
        +6
        Quote: Pane Kohanku
        So I would agree! drinks only these days I "close debts"!

        what is all 364? belay To paraphrase we get, "the day feeds the year laughing drinks
        1. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 15 January 2021 23: 40
          +3
          what is all 364?

          No, at the end of the 20s, I close the year for work! "The captain is the last to leave the ship" ... And on the 30th - I can already allow other activities! drinks
          1. Malyuta
            Malyuta 15 January 2021 23: 54
            +3
            Quote: Pane Kohanku
            No, at the end of the 20s, I close the year for work! "The captain is the last to leave the ship" ... And on the 30th - I can already allow other activities!

            this is our usual state in the later era of the Russian Federation. drinks
            1. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku 16 January 2021 00: 07
              +2
              this is our usual state in the era of the later Russian Federation

              The world is us! (To Pan Kohanku).
              Here I was born - here I will die! (Emperor Pavel Petrovich). drinks
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 15 January 2021 21: 04
    +4
    Well, I read it. I have only one question: why are you commenting on this mediocrity ????
    1. Pane Kohanku
      Pane Kohanku 15 January 2021 21: 06
      +6
      Well, I read it. I have only one question: why are you commenting on this mediocrity ????

      I do not care. But let this <....> be removed from the section for hell! You know me, you are my best friend. Why is this being published, tell me?
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 15 January 2021 21: 17
        +7
        So you are all doing "hype" to him! From VikNik to the user who registered yesterday! Why are you reading this, why are you coming here? You don't know the laws of internet journalism? Well, ask Shpakovsky or something !!!!
        1. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 15 January 2021 21: 24
          +5
          So you are all doing "hype" to him!

          I want to do the opposite, but I'm afraid they will be banned. But I would very much like the dear administration to pay attention to this.
          Well, ask Shpakovsky or something !!!!

          Shpakovsky .. we owe him a lot, at least for the models of foreign technology. By knowledge.
          And this "creation" ... Do you want to compare with the content of Wikipedia? just for fun?
          Tell me ... would you be happy to get paid for nothing? But "this one" lives by this. Without honor and conscience. "mediocre agitator", but with a syllable. Did he say so in detail?
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 15 January 2021 21: 29
            +3
            I do not want! And in general, run away from here soon! And tomorrow to go to the KVD will be checked!
            1. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku 15 January 2021 21: 31
              +3
              And tomorrow to go to the KVD will be checked!

              This is your own business, I didn’t hold a candle to whom you are there and where. laughing drinks
            2. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar 15 January 2021 22: 18
              +2
              Quote: 3x3zsave
              I do not want! And in general, run away from here soon! And tomorrow to go to the KVD will be checked!

              Companions of those guys from a Dagestani? laughing
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. Malyuta
      Malyuta 15 January 2021 23: 42
      +4
      Quote: 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave (Anton) Today, 21: 04
      Well, I read it. I have only one question: why are you commenting on this mediocrity ????

      They express their indignation. yes
  • mr.ZinGer
    mr.ZinGer 15 January 2021 21: 28
    +3
    It's a shame that you can only add it once ...
    1. Pane Kohanku
      Pane Kohanku 15 January 2021 21: 30
      +4
      It's a shame that you can only add it once ...

      Let's be good friends. I mostly hang out in the history section. Nikolay. drinks
      1. mr.ZinGer
        mr.ZinGer 15 January 2021 21: 52
        +5
        Very nice. Vladimir, I'm hanging out there ...
        1. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 15 January 2021 21: 54
          +4
          Very nice. Vladimir, I'm hanging out there ...

          Mutually! drinks My friend's name is Anton, his nickname is 3x3zsave, and he is a decent smart man. good Another friend's name is Albert - he is Krasnodar. Let's chat about everything! drinks
        2. mr.ZinGer
          mr.ZinGer 15 January 2021 21: 56
          +4
          I remembered
          My father said he served in the navy, the sailor drowned a bayonet, it was in Riga on the Daugava, 1948-1953, so they were looking for divers.
  • antivirus
    antivirus 15 January 2021 21: 58
    +4
    Today, 21: 52
    0
    "galley slave"
    Kalikchestvo rules the show. the whole team of authors drives the number. gives us a reason to feel like experts. this is how detectives build a tempting plot, according to the level of the audience and the complexity of the plot + a little more difficult for intrigue. not everything is clear and at the same time intriguing "you guess correctly" - "soon the denouement and you will be right, maybe you have almost guessed everything .."
    and the author "on horseback" - he kept the audience

    repeat for Nikolai ..............................
    1. Pane Kohanku
      Pane Kohanku 15 January 2021 23: 02
      +7
      repeat for Nikolay

      You see ... this site has become native since 2015, when streams of mud poured onto our country from every iron, and a plumber from our building was crying on my shoulder, whose cousin and his family died on the plane that flew from Egypt ... It was, in my thoughts, a good patriotic smart site!
      For many, the site is native. A platform for communication.
      Moreover, the site is exactly that good. One of the leading on the topics of interest to us.
      the whole team of authors drives the number

      Authors are different. Thanks to some of them, we got to know the whole company, make friends, and even sometimes drink vodka together. drinks
      But there are those authors whom you want to read. Because they write historical information with an individuality in the syllable. Interesting, informative. yes For the sake of such a "platform for communication" we come to the site!
      And there are those who work ... "leave me alone." Cheeky. There is such a Samson. Either he rewrites mournfully other people's sources, or strikes at the alternative - "there was no Mongol, etc." Provocateur. But many are happy about it. No.
      Let's decide for ourselves which country we want to live in. Either in the country of slogans and alternative history, mythical "scrapers", or we will really be smart, and with knowledge. We have a good and varied history. It is necessary to know and accept it, and all its ambiguities, and not replace it with propaganda, slogans and an alternative.
      Something like this! soldier
      1. antivirus
        antivirus 15 January 2021 23: 08
        +3
        next to the sapper shovel.
        10 years ago I saw on Trud, village Vacha, stamps were stored in an empty workshop. as a memory of the great past. the plant went bankrupt. another makes a locksmith and construction.
        The mob was probably removed from the mob earlier than the external manager or bankruptcy manager entered. and people kept the stamps.
        1. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 15 January 2021 23: 13
          +2
          external manager

          Vorye?
          1. antivirus
            antivirus 16 January 2021 08: 19
            +1
            did not meet.
            China drove cheaper. and Moscow time worked.
      2. Krasnodar
        Krasnodar 15 January 2021 23: 20
        +2
        And then there is Damantsev with conclusions about the possible development of hostilities, based on the performance characteristics of the weapons of the parties (even without taking into account the number of weapons and the degree of qualification of the people serving the equipment) soldier
        1. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 15 January 2021 23: 34
          +3
          And then there is Damantsev with conclusions about the possible development of hostilities

          I haven't read it. request Did you know that a certain theorist Nikolai Klado in 1904 wrote incendiary articles about what ships to send to the Far East for the war with the Japanese? .. They sent .. The second and third squadrons .. to perish! Only it was impossible to send them at all. And Klado then washed his hands.
          Why am I telling you this? You served, I served, Anton served ... But being a theoretician is the easiest thing! drinks
          1. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 15 January 2021 23: 50
            +2
            Well, publishing on this site does not oblige as a bae ..))
            1. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku 16 January 2021 00: 02
              +3
              Well, publishing on this site does not oblige as a bae ..))

              But it excites the masses! Like our Lev Davidovich! drinks
              1. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar 16 January 2021 00: 15
                +1
                The masses always need to be directed in the direction you need, so you need to be friends with such people drinks
                1. Pane Kohanku
                  Pane Kohanku 16 January 2021 00: 27
                  +3
                  The masses always need to be directed in the direction you need, so you need to be friends with such people

                  If you agree to be Trotsky, I will not only be friends with you - I will lick you, and even for not very big money. laughing drinks and then we will conquer the world! now, let's unite everyone .. and let's go ahead! fellow
                  1. Krasnodar
                    Krasnodar 16 January 2021 00: 45
                    +2
                    No, I agree to supply Trotsky with muses, "gasoline" and talk a little about life lol
                    1. Pane Kohanku
                      Pane Kohanku 16 January 2021 00: 47
                      +2
                      No, I agree to supply Trotsky with muses, "gasoline" and talk a little about life

                      Then who should Trotsky choose - Anton? laughing This one will unfold so that we will not rejoice ... wink drinks
                    2. Krasnodar
                      Krasnodar 16 January 2021 00: 54
                      +3
                      What for? Operator fellow Haplogroups of holograms and alternative history + cheto cuts in army technology. Will attract many turnip lovers from slop cars, and when they come to him, we will shove him into the Duma from the Liberal Democratic Party, for example laughing
                      And everything is covered in chocolate - we, he, those who came to him and the Liberal Democratic Party (for example) fellow
                    3. Pane Kohanku
                      Pane Kohanku 16 January 2021 01: 02
                      +4
                      the Liberal Democratic Party came (for example)

                      Everything is already divided there. stop The son of Zhirik the year before last made messages on social networks from Miami - "they say, you can fall in love." Here is our .. "ilita" .... request
                      In short, the LDPR is not. They will lead us on the lips. First you, then me, then the Operator. fellow This - with special cynicism, for all haplogroups drinks
                      we will shove him into the thought of the Liberal Democratic Party

                      Come on better in the communist internationalists? wink All you need is - Shpakovsky a couple of times to impose obscene language, and all the pluses are ours! A profitable business! good
                    4. Krasnodar
                      Krasnodar 16 January 2021 01: 05
                      +2
                      Come on - a party, as a party, elites, as elites and in general - typical for countries from 40 and above in places on the HDI
                    5. Pane Kohanku
                      Pane Kohanku 16 January 2021 01: 07
                      +1
                      places on HDI

                      what are we on? belay
                    6. Krasnodar
                      Krasnodar 16 January 2021 01: 13
                      +2
                      52nd. Kazakhstan at 51st, Belarus at 53rd, Turkey at 54th
                    7. Pane Kohanku
                      Pane Kohanku 16 January 2021 01: 20
                      +3
                      52nd. Kazakhstan at 51st, Belarus at 53rd, Turkey at 54th

                      Well, I thought that in the psychology of the "elites" we are closer to the Papuans than to civilization. It is clear, the ratings are far-fetched ... But thoughts wander, unfortunately. what
                      We are waiting for you in St. Petersburg! drinks The Golden Knight - Anton - will join. I think we will meet Mikhail too ... wink
                    8. Krasnodar
                      Krasnodar 16 January 2021 01: 25
                      +1
                      Duc ... laughing
                      HDI is the most objective indicator of living standards
                      Not expected duration
                      Per capita income
                      Access to education
                      First 20:
                      1 Norway 0.957
                      2 Ireland 0.955
                      2 Switzerland 0.955
                      4 Hong Kong 0.949
                      4 Iceland 0.949
                      6 Germany 0.947
                      7 Sweden 0.945
                      8 Australia 0.944
                      8 Netherlands 0.944
                      10 Denmark 0.940
                      11 Finland 0.938
                      11 Singapore 0.938
                      13 United Kingdom 0.932
                      14 Belgium 0.931
                      14 New Zealand 0.931
                      16 Canada 0.929
                      17 United States of America 0.926
                      18 Austria 0.922
                      19 Israel 0.919
                      19 Japan 0.919
                      19 Liechtenstein
                      2019 data
                    9. Pane Kohanku
                      Pane Kohanku 16 January 2021 01: 28
                      +4
                      2019 data

                      You know .. why we live in the largest country, but the most unsettled morally? God knows. Probably, the next ones should come to replace our generation. In general, we still live in troubled times when no one is sure of anything ... what
                    10. Krasnodar
                      Krasnodar 16 January 2021 01: 32
                      +2
                      I explain - when you don’t have a fig, you’ll be making watches from a piece of ore to eat, copying other people's bicycles to sell them cheaper, working on an elite version that you can sell at a higher price, etc.
                      And when you have the richest country in the world with resources, they don’t care. You will not die for love. This, as I see it, is the main problem
                    11. Pane Kohanku
                      Pane Kohanku 16 January 2021 01: 33
                      +2
                      And when you have the richest country in the world with resources, they don’t care. You will not die for love. This, as I see it, is the main problem

                      Hmm .... I've never thought about it! what
  • vladcub
    vladcub 15 January 2021 20: 33
    +5
    Generally speaking, bayonet fighting is not taught in our army either. By and large, the bayonet is no longer relevant. In hand-to-hand combat, a sapper shovel and a dagger will be more convenient
  • vladcub
    vladcub 15 January 2021 20: 44
    +3
    Quote: Dimid
    Something related to getting into the chest, don't "try" I don't remember

    It's true. I once heard about this from my great-uncle. He fought in the Marine Corps and knew something not by hearsay. He said that he "lost" the bayonet and was pleased
  • Denimax
    Denimax 15 January 2021 20: 48
    +4
    The needle bayonet is essentially a stiletto used by assassins in the past. I believe that a stab wound, in contrast to a stab-cut wound, is less painful and a fighter, not very much noticing the torment of the enemy, will more coolly and more actively stab in a bayonet fight. IMHO
    1. Dkuznecov
      Dkuznecov 15 January 2021 23: 44
      +3
      A bit wrong.
      The stiletto was intended
      for penetration under the joint of armor / chain mail.
      there would be no armor, there would be no stiletto.
      (What a fabulous museum in Turin about this)

      Bayonet triangular or quadrangular
      non-healing wound LONG or permanently.

      This is torment, a drop in spirit, the fullness of hospitals,
      distraction of dressing workers / nurses / doctors.

      A flat knife in a prick causes minimal damage.
      I.m.kh.o.
      P / s /
      I know all Remarque by heart. "Death in Russia smelled differently ..."
      1. Mordvin 3
        Mordvin 3 16 January 2021 03: 20
        +1
        Quote: DKuznecov
        A flat knife in a prick causes minimal damage.
        I.m.kh.o.

        Flat or narrow?
        1. Dkuznecov
          Dkuznecov 16 January 2021 19: 37
          -1
          Flat. From the bayonet, the wound collapses and internal blood loss.
          What is wrong.
          And also healing:
          "Now let's make an incision on an imaginary model, imagining that it is from a sharp blade. Everything that fell under the incision line diverges to the sides, but with proper care, disinfection of the wound and timely drainage of pus, the tissues will converge as expected, and will remain at the incision site. a scar that repeats the shape of the incision.

          Now let's imagine that instead of a cut, we drive such a triangular bayonet into our model. It not only damages tissues, it shifts them to the sides - instead of a plane of symmetry, which is easy to combine, we get axial symmetry of the wound. Such a wound will never come together in the proper way, even if the person is provided with proper care. The damaged tissue should be excised, after which the surgically formed wound plane should be connected, and already when the contact of the wound edges is ensured, and the correct drainage of pus, such a wound will heal. "

          https://pikabu.ru/story/nemnogo_o_chetyirekhgrannyikh_trekhgrannyikh_tozheshtyikakh_5111517?cid=89112012
          1. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 16 January 2021 19: 40
            -2
            Quote: DKuznecov
            The damaged tissue should be excised, after which the surgically formed wound plane should be connected, and already when the contact of the wound edges is ensured, and the correct drainage of pus, such a wound will heal. "

            Are you crazy or what?
          2. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 16 January 2021 19: 45
            -2
            Quote: DKuznecov
            Now let's imagine that instead of a cut, we drive such a triangular bayonet into our model

            Nonsense full.
            1. Dkuznecov
              Dkuznecov 16 January 2021 19: 48
              0
              Your right not to believe
              and reasonably
              defend your opinion. We have a free country.
              I just tracked down the article I was reading
              earlier. And he quoted a piece from the discussion.
  • sen
    sen 16 January 2021 06: 18
    +1
    In the magazine "Weapon" there was an article by a special forces soldier who "worked" in the Caucasus.
    So he argued that the bayonet was used only in one case. When the militant was arrested in his house, the "home" attacked the special forces soldier. So, the bayonet put forward made it possible to defend.
  • Aviator_
    Aviator_ 16 January 2021 08: 47
    +3
    Since 2010, the US Army has officially abandoned it and removed bayonet combat from the compulsory training program for military personnel.

    In our army, perhaps, they will never reach such, to put it mildly, ill-considered decisions.

    We made this decision back in the days of Khrushch Kukuruzny - the last All-Union competitions in bayonet fighting were held in 1956. And before that, this type of applied military sport was widespread in the Armed Forces.
  • Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
    Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 16 January 2021 09: 24
    +7
    Haraluzhny's writing is a shame. I understand that the long holidays sucked the budget, but knocking over a trifle like this with such profanity, presented as an 'article' about weapons, is, you know ... He is not talented in any topic, whatever he undertakes. Is it published on VO out of compassion?
  • CastroRuiz
    CastroRuiz 20 January 2021 19: 23
    0
    Iz Marsha kolkhoznikov:
    "Vdol dorogi zashumeli, zagudeli provoda,
    shtik bolshoy na maliy nemeniayu nikogda ". :)