The timing of the start of testing of the newest wheeled ACS 2S43 "Malva"

Tests of the promising 2C43 Malva self-propelled wheeled howitzer will begin in the spring or summer of 2021.

This is reported "News" with reference to the Ministry of Defense.

According to the publication, the newest self-propelled gun had to pass factory tests by the end of 2020 with firing, currently the ACS is undergoing a stage of correcting the shortcomings discovered during the tests. After the stage of fine-tuning "Malva" will start testing.

ACS 2S43 "Malva" is being developed by the Central Research Institute "Burevestnik" as part of the ROC "Sketch". For the first time, the howitzer was presented in 2019 behind closed doors, details of the development are not provided.

It is known that the 152-mm 2A64 cannon used in the Msta-S self-propelled guns is used as a firing component at Malva. It is possible to install an upgraded version of this gun, but the data is missing due to the secrecy of the development. The transportable ammunition of the howitzer is 30 rounds, the mass of the self-propelled guns is 32 tons.

The chassis of the Malva is the BAZ-6010-027 all-terrain vehicle with an 8x8 wheel arrangement produced by the Bryansk Automobile Plant, and not the Belarusian MZKT tractor, traditionally used in the Russian army as a platform for placing various weapons. Other details have not yet been disclosed.

As previously reported, in the framework of the R&D project “Sketch” a whole flower garden is being developed, which, in addition to “Mallow”, includes 120-mm Flook SAO on the Ural-VV chassis, 120 mm Arctic Magnolia self-propelled guns on the chassis of a two-link tractor DT-30MP and 82-mm mortar "Drok" on the chassis "Typhoon-VDV".

Comments

[venik]

"....Tests of the promising 2S43 "Malva" wheeled self-propelled howitzer will begin in the spring or summer of 2021... .... "
======
Well, the topic is fashionable these days .... A lot of people are doing this. It's understandable: mobility tallerthan towed artillery, deployment / collapse time - also. And the cost is quite comparable, while significantly lessthan tracked armored self-propelled guns!
Interestingly, and "Kaolitsiya" in a similar "simplified version" (I have not in view of - that "truck with a tower"which has already been lit up) - won't they try? It would be much cheaper and would speed up the entry of the" Coalition "into the troops! without refusal from the version on the tracked chassis - it is also REQUIRED! But it won't appear very soon, and the Army needs long-range weapons. "already the day before yesterday"!!!

[Thrifty]

Why not use the 2A8 gun, which is more powerful?

[venik]

Quote: Thrifty

Why not use the 2A8 gun, which is more powerful?

=========
Excuse me, eh "2А8" - what's this? Maybe you mean "2А88"?

[svp67]

Quote: venik

Interestingly, and "Kaolitsiya" in such a "simplified version" (I do not mean - that "truck with a tower", which has already been lit) - will they not try?

The article clearly says ...

It is possible to install an upgraded version of this gun, but the data is missing due to the secrecy of the development.

[Flooding]

Quote: svp67

The article clearly says

Rather, it's not about the 2A88, but about the modernization of the 2A64 gun
Akin to upgrading the Msta-S with a longer barrel.
For the Coalition, the BP line is probably still being developed.
Yes adjustment of the production process ...
And is there any point in making an expensive wheeled SPG?

[svp67]

Quote: Flood

Rather, it's not about the 2A88, but about the modernization of the 2A64 gun

If this weapon goes, then others will follow in its wake ...

[venik]

Quote: svp67

The article clearly says ...
It is possible to install an upgraded version of this gun, but the data is missing due to the secrecy of the development.

========
I don’t know ... It’s somehow difficult for me to perceive the 2A88 gun (ACS "Coalition") as just modernization guns 2A64 (ACS "Msta-S") ... As for me, this is rather a NEW development "on the basis of"2A64. Moreover, the index is different!

[svp67]

Quote: venik

It is somehow difficult for me to perceive the 2A88 gun (self-propelled guns "Coalition"), as just the modernization of the 2A64 gun (self-propelled guns "Msta-S") ...

And do you think that it will not stand on this "base chassis"?

[garri-lin]

The stuffing of the tower at Msta and the Coalition is very different. It would be just I think they would immediately do it on the basis of the Coalition.

[svp67]

Quote: garri-lin

The stuffing of the tower at Msta and the Coalition is very different. It would be just I think they would immediately do it on the basis of the Coalition.

They do what they have and with what can be compared. Moreover, the old "Msta" has already been studied from beginning to end, all the more so since the appearance of its modernization version has formed a certain surplus of "trunks". Now they will test and understand whether such a rework is worth the candle. For me it's worth it. And then new versions will appear

[garri-lin]

The fact that such an alteration is useful is unambiguous. Only once they do it on the basis of Msta's opudium there will be an economy option. Although this is not bad.

[venik]

Quote: svp67

And do you think that it will not stand on this "base chassis"?

========
I believe that it will rise!
Here is another question: the return of the 2A88 is a priori much higher than that of the 2A64 (the charge there is much more powerful). For the "Coalition" on the KamAZ chassis, the outrigger support turned out to be very large and complex!

There is still this "crab" spread out и fold..... It may turn out that the towed implement is faster to turn and fold! One of the main advantages over barrel artillery disappears: the speed of deployment and folding!
The only thing is that: firstly, the BAZ has a stronger frame and a stronger chassis, and secondly, if you do without a tower, then outriggers can be simpler! That's what I hope for!

[D16]

There, while this "crab" is unfolded and folded ..... It may turn out that the towed weapon is faster to deploy and fold!

Some kind of "Coalition" is not correct. In your picture, the gun turret is shifted forward. It is actually above the rear pair of axles, with outriggers located in front and behind the rear axles. Nobody unfolds them anywhere.

The only thing is that: firstly, the BAZ has a stronger frame and a stronger chassis, and secondly, if you do without a tower, then outriggers can be simpler! That's what I hope for!

Voshchina has an independent multi-link torsion bar suspension. The thing is more passable, but less lifting. If you do without the tower, then there will be no AZ and the current rate of fire. Given the firing range of the 2A88, you don't have to get into the mud. "Malva" will obviously not set records, but it is cheaper, like ammunition for it. She has only one outrigger, like on "Genocide".
But because of this, there is no possibility of a circular attack.

[Togilen]

BAZ has a mass of equipment to be installed - 26.8 tons, KAMAZ-6560 - 23,5 tons. BAZ has three tons more gp, as you can see. Not to mention the best lateral and longitudinal stability.

[D16]

BAZ has a mass of equipment to be mounted - 26.8 tons,

"Chassis 2С43 Malva is a modification of the BAZ-6910 truck. Its weight is 21 tons, carrying capacity is 19,41 tons. The 470 hp motor provides a maximum speed of up to 80 km per hour. At the rear of the 2С43 there is a heavy stop that goes down during firing. The machine is equipped with a 9-speed two-position transmission and independent two-torsion suspension on all axles and a central tire inflation system. The power reserve is 1000 km. The 2S43 is able to overcome a ford 1,4 m deep. "(c)
https://raigap.livejournal.com/887662.html
But the lateral stability of the "Foundation" is really better because of the suspension.
There was an attempt to create an 8x8 tractor with increased carrying capacity (24-25t) within the framework of Voshchin's ROC 2. But it did not grow together:
"At the beginning of 2008, the plant began to carry out the ROC" Voshchina-2 ", but in October of the same year, the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation stopped financing these works, as well as the R&D" Natural ", within the framework of which a standard-size range of hydromechanical gearboxes for" Voshchina-2 "was developed ". (C)

Читать полностью: http://xn----7sbb5ahj4aiadq2m.xn--p1ai/guide/army/tr/baz6909.shtml

[garri-lin]

You can't do without a tower. The tower from the Coalition is a single whole. There is everything you need and nothing more.

[bad]

The right tool. I am glad that the BAZ chassis.

[venik]

Quote: malo

The right tool. I am glad that the BAZ chassis.

===========
I am glad that BAZ comes to life! First "Vityaz" and part of the S-300 and 400, now here is "Malva"!

[svp67]

Quote: venik

I am glad that BAZ comes to life!

Yes, it's a pity Kurgan did not live up to this happiness ...

but no matter how its power would not interfere now ...

[venik]

Quote: svp67

Yes, it's a pity Kurgan did not live up to this happiness ...
but no matter how its power would not interfere now ...

========
Don't even show it, Sergei! Look - PAINFULLY! Not only abandoned workshops! Lost a whole engineering and design SCHOOL, HUNDREDS of highly skilled workers and technicians - SPECIALISTS "thrown into the street"! In the literal sense of the word!
The phrase of one American investor came across: "Bankruptcy - in the vast majority of cases - is change of ownership and only in exceptional cases should it mean liquidation Enterprises".
We are not RICH enough to afford such a "luxury" as destruction Enterprises, breaking the fate of hundreds and thousands of people (and across the country - and million), destroying what has been created for DECADES! And only so that someone could "clear your way"(even if he has no idea HOW to go along this road!).
When such pictures (intentionally destroyed workshops and destroyed factories) - just involuntarily, FISTES are clenching!
PS Modern "economists"- may argue: outdated technologies, lack of demand for products ... Yes, it happens ... But not so often! Much more often this is the result of so-called" competition "- when the main thing is not to surpass competitor but just destroy (At ANY cost - most often - by intrigue and shenanigans!

[Old26]

Something I did not quite understand. Self-propelled howitzer, and used gun 2A64

[Sergey Valov]

"The howitzer was first presented in 2019"
"152-mm cannon 2A64 is used"
So howitzer or cannon ???

[barclay]

In this case, it is appropriate to say "tool".

[venik]

Quote: Sergey Valov

"The howitzer was first presented in 2019"
"152-mm cannon 2A64 is used"
So howitzer or cannon ???

=========
Well, by and large - it's like "howitzer cannon". Can shoot like on mounted trajectory, and along flat - this depends on shell и charge.
Somewhere like that ...

[Mountain shooter]

A wheeled SPG is not for the Big War. This is for local wars, for which such self-propelled guns as "Coalition" are too expensive, less mobile, and the functions, in general, are the same. Both the range and the accuracy ... The Msta cannon is not quite like that of the Coalition, but it is not much inferior to it. And the cost will certainly be several times cheaper. Not a cannon, but an SPG.

[zwlad]

A wheeled SPG is not for the Big War.

Perhaps this is just a replacement for towed guns, which is logical in principle.

[venik]

Quote: Mountain Shooter

A wheeled SPG is not for the Big War. This is for local wars

=========
Sorry Eugene, and towed artillery - it is intended for what wars - for "local"or for"large"?
For some reason it seems to me that "Malva" is for "large"wars are coming much morethan "Msta-B"! First of all, due to higher mobility and lesser time expand / collapse...
PS In no way do I want to belittle the merits and the NECESSITY of having an ACS in the Armed Forces on an armored tracked chassis! They are simply NECESSARY! But such systems are not just needed, but also NECESSARY!

[Mountain shooter]

Quote: venik

For some reason, it seems to me that "Malva" is much more suitable for "big" wars than "Msta-B"! First of all due to higher mobility and shorter deployment / folding time ...

Msta-B - this is strong from poverty ... Towed artillery, IMHO - absolutely nowhere. In modern conditions - deployment, equipping positions - as you remember ... Horror. Towed artillery - all the more so for a war with an enemy who does not conduct counter-battery combat.
How much did it take - battery, for battle !!!

[Grits]

Quote: Mountain Shooter

Towed artillery, IMHO - nowhere at all. In modern conditions - deployment, equipping positions - as you remember ... Horror. Towed artillery - all the more so for a war with an enemy who does not conduct counter-battery combat.

Is the era of towed artillery going into decline? Is it because at the last Parades of Victory they completely stopped showing it ...
By the way, "Lopatov", a good art specialist, has disappeared somewhere. It was always interesting to read his comments.

[Alexander Vorontsov]

Quote: Mountain Shooter

Msta-B - this is strong from poverty ... Towed artillery, IMHO - absolutely nowhere.

How nowhere.
And the defense of the territories adjacent to the base?
And what about throwing a turntable to dominant heights in a mountainous area?

In Syria, situations often occur when Assad's troops surround a settlement, but neither one nor the other dares to storm, because there is no overweight and will lead to big losses.
So they are beating for weeks from one position.

[Simargl]

Quote: Mountain Shooter

A wheeled SPG is not for the Big War.

Let's say you're right.
However, for the last 70 years we have not had big wars, so such systems would be useful.

[Mountain shooter]

Quote: Simargl

However, for the last 70 years we have not had big wars, so such systems would be useful.

It looks like there will be no ... Big War. How the generals of the USSR understood it. Avalanches of tanks, sweeping away everything on the way to the English Channel, were needed in support of self-propelled guns and infantry fighting vehicles with a similar cross-country ability.
What is the doctrine now - not to look from my captain's bell. But to deploy towed artillery at night in "bad weather conditions" ... I really don't want the boys to do it. Difficulties are good for sports ...

[Simargl]

Quote: Mountain Shooter

What is the doctrine now - not to look from my captain's bell.

What does doctrine have to do with it? How and where to apply it - they show on the news.

[svp67]

And great ... good, such a continuation of the "flower" Soviet tradition ... Good luck

[Zaurbek]

I wonder why the artillery system was taken by Msta, and not the Coalition?

[venik]

Quote: Zaurbek

I wonder why the artillery system was taken by Msta, and not the Coalition?

=========
First, there are still few "Coalitions" and it has not yet been fully tested, but "Mstey" (or "Mstov"? ) - a lot, as well as ammunition for them.
And secondly, I already wrote that 2A88 ("Coalition") has a much more powerful impact. This means that with the chassis and outriggers - you need to think something ... And so - "they walk along Deribasovskaya gradually ...". They will master and run in "Malva" - you look and they will get to the "Coalition" (2A88) ...... I really want to hope.
In short: we'll see ...

[Zaurbek]

And how was the tower with 2A88 stuck on KAMAZ?

[venik]

Quote: Zaurbek

And how was the tower with 2A88 stuck on KAMAZ?

=======
I don’t understand how it keeps there ..... But somehow they stuck it in .... But the outriggers are there - oo-oo-oo-oo!

[Zaurbek]

But Kamaz itself will fall apart ..... It is more liquid. Even from the transportation of such a mass.

[Togilen]

She keeps on the "holy spirit" of Chemezov and Kogogin

[Kart]

Yes, this is generally cartoons. Mosfilm.
Be scared.

[Grits]

Quote: Zaurbek

And how was the tower with 2A88 stuck on KAMAZ?

KAMAZ apparently has such a lobby that they are ready to set up even a helipad with a helicopter and a hangar.

[Togilen]

Have you just found out about the lobby whose surname is Chemezov? They took away the MT-LB repair from Muromteplovoz, and now they are offering its modernization, and Remdizel announced it at Army-2020 as a new one, but in fact it is an upgrade made in Kharkov in the early 2000s.

[moreman78]

If we manage to build an artillery system - in tank and motorized rifle regiments and brigades on BMP - ACS Msta-S, and in motorized rifle regiments and brigades on armored personnel carriers - ACS Malva, it would be great!
And now there are a lot of towed Msta-B in the newly deployed divisions, and this is not good.

[Ros 56]

This is how long the trunk is, probably at least 7-8 meters, judging by the photo. And it hits probably 30-50 km. What a man can not think of to kill another. Uzhos.

[Kart]

Oh! Horrible!
All the light-faced fighters for democracy and the new USSR are in shock.

[John22]

I wonder why the barrel was not placed on the cockpit? They could have reduced the length of the ACS by three to four meters.

[Zaurbek]

Stock for the Coalition, probably weight distribution

[storm]

In order for Malva to become a truly self-propelled automated weapon, the ammunition load of 30 rounds must be in automated stowage, and another 3-4 sets on the frame in protected containers for manual reloading.
Then, having fired off the Ammunition in a couple of minutes, MALVA will quickly leave the position even before the enemy's electronic intelligence detects it.

The gun on a car chassis with manual reloading is a "collective farm" from the 50s of the last century, it is guaranteed to be destroyed, if not on the first, then on the second ammunition load ...
Empty transfer of funds.

[strannik1985]

Cannon on a car chassis with manual reloading

Does it bother you that the consumption rates are much higher than the transportable stock of shells?
What about the ammunition nomenclature? For example, you need to change the OFS to smoke, shrapnel, REP?
Therefore, everyone is shooting from the ground, just at a pace: short fire raid - movement - short fire raid.

[Mountain shooter]

Quote: assault

In order for Malva to become a truly self-propelled automated weapon, the ammunition load of 30 rounds must be in automated stacking, and another 3-4 sets on the frame in protected

Such a weapon should fire everything in an automated ammo rack in 2-3 minutes ... And immediately. take off, reloading (restoring ammunition) somewhere "along the way" ... Radar systems will detect the coordinates of the battery leading the fire and transfer them to the enemy battery, which will immediately open fire to kill. When firing at maximum ranges, the projectile flies to the target for about 3 minutes ... These three minutes are the safe time interval ... Between the opening of fire and the moment when it is time to take off ...

[strannik1985]

A weapon like this should shoot everything

And if you shoot from the ground, then you don't need to shoot everything, the combat supply department lays out batches of shells of 10 pieces at a distance of ~ 500 meters from each other, the gun conducts a fire raid (1-2 minutes) - movement (1 min) - short fire raid ... etc. The division is deployed in a positional area, say, 2x2 km, all 18 guns are placed one by one, they are moved in the indicated order, the transported stowage can be used against suddenly detected targets.

[yuriy55]

"Coalition", "Phlox", "Magnolia", "Gorse" ...
Honestly, I thought, like here:

 Show / Hide text

And I looked, rummaged and found the opinion of experts:

And now the main question is - why do we need such a self-propelled gun? And where to apply its main feature? Everything is very simple. The army had seen enough of Syria and realized that in conflicts of this level, the tracked chassis is not of interest - it is only needed to deal with a powerful enemy when there are no longer any roads (although this is not the only reason). And in low-intensity conflicts - "Malva" is the very thing. Moreover, this high mobility allows you to achieve targets as quickly and unnoticeably as possible - cover it with a tarpaulin, move 3-4 vehicles at night, and no one even understands that this is being advanced to the position of 152-mm artillery. The desire of the Ministry of Defense to have such mobile artillery becomes especially understandable, when you look at countries bordering on Russia - here and there some kind of conflict arises that needs to be answered very quickly.

[Lord of the Sith]

All-terrain vehicle BAZ-6010-027 with a wheel arrangement 8x8 manufactured by Bryansk Automobile Plant

So what do they use the "achressor" technique? Disorder))

What do they say there? Suitcase-station-Russia? So turn to Russia))

[strannik1985]

What kind of aggressor? BAZ is located in Bryansk, Russia.

[Lord of the Sith]

Oh, I tupanul something, I answered without looking, I thought it was Sumerian developments))

That's what fatigue means, you need to rest, otherwise I start to carry nonsense))

That's it, these velikokry infected me with their under-engineering))

[czes]

Compared to CAESAR, it looks heavy

[Zaurbek]

It depends a lot on what ... ... the same Caesar on different chassis happens: Renault 6x6 and Tatra 8x8 ... BAZ is quite similar to the Tatra. Soils are different. And, maybe with a margin under 2A88

[alexmach]

Where's the 30-round ammo being carried there?

[Togilen]

[quote = D16] [quote] Voshchina has an independent multi-link suspension on torsion bars. The thing is more passable, but less lifting. [/ Quote]
BAZ has a mass of equipment to be installed - 26.8 tons, KAMAZ-6560 - 23,5 tons. BAZ has three tons more gp, as you can see. Not to mention the best lateral and longitudinal stability.

[czes]

And why did they stretch it so much that it could not be done shorter - for air transportation, for example? And what about semi-automatic - to help the gunners?

[Togilen]

What's stretched here? The length of Malva is 13 meters, the length of the cargo compartment of the most massive aircraft VTA Il-76 = 24,5 m. With semi-automatic everything is ok, there is a rammer. By the way, the famous Caesar does not carry shells

[psiho117]

Quote: Togilen

By the way, the famous Caesar does not carry shells

Yes, that's just its weight 17,7t total (Renault 6x6)
With such a mass - this should be compared with the Swedish Archer, which, with the same mass - has a full machine gun, and can perform the entire range of ACS firing missions.
If we are to sculpt an open self-propelled gun with manual loading, and without a tower, then the chassis should be light, and not an 8x8 bandura with a mass like 2 Caesars or one and a half Atmos.

[Archivist Vasya]

and not the Belarusian MZKT tractor, traditionally used in the Russian army as a platform for the deployment of various weapons.

But this is strange ... it is not good to deviate from tradition!

[Togilen]

What's so strange? BAZ has been used in the army for a long time, since the transfer of production of ZIL-135L to the Bryansk plant. In addition to BAZ-135LM machines, we made bridges, RK and KOM for ZIL-131