Military Review

Greek Defense Ministry proposes to purchase used Rafale fighters

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Greek Defense Ministry proposes to purchase used Rafale fighters

The Greek Ministry of Defense has submitted a bill to parliament, which is part of the state defense order. The bill provides for the development of the country's air force in the coming years.


It is known that the Greek military department proposes to approve the idea of ​​acquiring for its military aviation French fighters Rafale. The document, which will be discussed in the profile committee of the Greek parliament on January 14, indicates the desired number of such combat aircraft - 18 units. However, only six of them will be new.

Greek press reports say that the Greek Defense Ministry is proposing in this "package" to purchase 12 used Rafale fighters. It turns out that the department is going to "develop" the Air Force with used French-made aircraft.

The total value of the potential deal is indicated at 2,32 billion euros.

It turns out that the French fighters, including 12 used ones, will cost the Greek budget about 129 million euros per unit - if the deal is approved by the parliament.

Justifying such a high price, the country's defense ministry says that these amounts also include "subsequent maintenance of fighters and initial armament." In any case, the price of Rafale for Greece, to put it mildly, cannot be called low. And these prices have already caused discussion in Greece itself.

In this case, it is worth noting that French fighters are currently only more expensive for India. Under the Indian-French contract, India is spending about $ 217 million for one new Rafale. At the same time, India is also trying to justify such an expensive contract and say that it includes maintenance and the supply of aircraft missiles.
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  1. Thrifty
    Thrifty 12 January 2021 15: 29
    +1
    We will sell them a cheaper MiG35 with AFAR, because our planes are much better than Rafals in many respects! !! Oh, does the money allocated for the purchase really exist? Or does Greece have everything, but only in words? ??
    1. Volodin
      Volodin 12 January 2021 15: 36
      +8
      Quote: Thrifty
      We will sell them a cheaper MiG35 with AFAR, because our planes are much better than Rafaley

      We'll sell it, no doubt about it. Only we ourselves would equip these MiG-35s with AFAR in sufficient quantity
      1. Thrifty
        Thrifty 12 January 2021 15: 47
        -2
        Volodin hi -Alexey hi , well, we have such a "tradition" in the military-industrial complex, first we sell something abroad, then we use the proceeds to build something for our Armed Forces, and often in a more functional version !!!
        1. Volodin
          Volodin 12 January 2021 16: 01
          +2
          Quote: Thrifty
          Well, we have such a "tradition" in the military-industrial complex, first we sell something abroad, then we use the proceeds to build something for our Armed Forces

          hi How long have we had such a "tradition"? ..
          1. Thrifty
            Thrifty 12 January 2021 16: 57
            +2
            Volodin - with a contract for the supply of T90 "Vladimir" to India! They also saved UVZ with that contract!
            1. bayard
              bayard 12 January 2021 22: 19
              -1
              We will not sell our MiG-35s to Greece.
              And we won't even sell the MiG-29.
              They simply will not buy - NATO members.
              But we may sell it to Iran.
              And maybe even Turkey.
              In any case, Erdogan and his military were eyeing the Su-35 and Su-57.
              Our businessmen and chess players will sell. yes
              And there will be a complete mess ...
              In the NATO bloc.
    2. Anar
      Anar 12 January 2021 16: 27
      0
      Greece is not Turkey to buy what is better and cheaper. Greece will buy what the owner allows her.
      1. white.eagle
        white.eagle 12 January 2021 19: 36
        -2
        Is France the master of Greece?
        1. parkello
          parkello 12 January 2021 23: 36
          +2
          the owner of Greece is Christ .. as He says so it will be.
        2. smoltish
          smoltish 13 January 2021 07: 10
          +1
          "Is France the master of Greece?" - what's behind these conclusions? Because he is buying French weapons?
    3. Runoway
      Runoway 12 January 2021 22: 08
      0
      We will sell them a cheaper MiG35 with AFAR

      Explain, please, why many countries purchased our aircraft on condition that they have elements of French avionics?
      1. smoltish
        smoltish 13 January 2021 07: 11
        +1
        Because French avionics has very high technical characteristics. Moreover, it is on our planes, helicopters and tanks.
        1. Runoway
          Runoway 13 January 2021 10: 36
          +1
          Super! Then the question is why a NATO country, which has all the infrastructure for a mirage of 2000, should buy a pig in a bag MiG-35 instead of the proven Rafal, which even the manufacturer's country does not have in service?
  2. Keyser soze
    Keyser soze 12 January 2021 16: 05
    +5
    This is no longer news, the Greeks signed an agreement. Plus more:

    4 frigates for the Navy and German submarines (unspecified)
    24 F35, requesting immediate delivery (this year)
    $ 53 million US aid to modernize Souda Bay
    Sent a request to the Americans for one Arleigh Burke, with Aegis as help
    Upgrade 50 or more F16 to block 70/72 standard
    Contract signed with Israel for joint training of the Air Force

    If Pavlos Melas appears, he can clarify more - this is what he writes in our media resources. I suppose there is still a lot, as the Greeks sharply decided to bridge their lag in the military field. If all the kids get fighters, radars and Arlie and Aegis, then their dominance in the air and at sea will be obvious.
    1. nks
      nks 12 January 2021 19: 47
      0
      Quote: Keyser Soze
      This is no longer news, the Greeks signed an agreement.

      The news is that the deal has reached the stage of parliamentary approval. The agreement has not yet been signed, but is expected by the end of January if approved. All other purchases listed by you at an earlier stage
    2. nks
      nks 15 January 2021 16: 06
      0
      But now this stage has already been passed
      https://www.reuters.com/article/us-greece-france-defence-idUSKBN29J2FZ
      The last thing left is the signing of the contract.
  3. Sailor
    Sailor 12 January 2021 16: 33
    +1
    Is Rafali really so good that they get such a price for them, the Greeks would have gotten Gripen in the latest version, they still won't buy from us.
    1. OgnennyiKotik
      OgnennyiKotik 12 January 2021 16: 47
      +4
      Yes, that much. Non-afterburner supersonic, extremely high maneuverability, advanced avionics, low visibility (second only to the 5th generation). An excellent air superiority aircraft with striking capabilities.
      1. Dread
        Dread 13 January 2021 23: 57
        -3
        Quote: OgnennyiKotik
        extremely high maneuverability, advanced avionics, low signature (second only to the 5th generation).

        Raphael -
        1. Maneuverability inferior to the Su-35S, the engine is without thrust vector control, there is no super-maneuverability a priori.
        2. Avionics - The RBE-2 Rafal radar is quite inferior to the N035 Irbis radar in terms of detection range. Detection range
        air targets with EPR = 5 sq. meters of radar with AFAR RBE-2 is 160 km in the front hemisphere, and the detection range of air targets with
        EPR = 3 sq. meters Н035 "Irbis" is 400 km in the front hemisphere.
        3. By stealth, Rafale and Su-35S are approximately equal. Their EPR
        equal to 1 sq. meters.
        However, only air combat will decide everything!
    2. pytar
      pytar 12 January 2021 17: 45
      +2
      Accidentally came across a picture that shows how similar Rafal, Mirage and Grippen are to each other! In the case of Greece, it probably matters that they have long been exploiting the French Mirages. hi
      1. Petro_tut
        Petro_tut 12 January 2021 21: 52
        0
        One moment, the grip is single-engine, and the Rafal is two-engine
        1. pytar
          pytar 12 January 2021 22: 10
          0
          Yes of course. Rafale also has air intakes left and right down, and Gripen has on both sides of the side to its level.
      2. smoltish
        smoltish 13 January 2021 07: 03
        0
        The picture shows not the similarity, but the comparative dimensions of the aircraft. Mirage 2000 can hardly be called Rafal-like.
    3. parkello
      parkello 12 January 2021 17: 52
      +2
      the price is sky-high, yes. and it's not a fact that Raphalia is much better than Mirages ... we have phantoms based in a mixed regiment F16, Mirage2000 and f-4, before there were A4s, they often went to approach ... the Greeks were not very pleased with the mirages, because for the engines. They often break down, the Rafali is just a newer machine. and our missiles are mostly French, let's hope that Rafali is still better. we have a mixed air base 12 km outside the city, right outside Thessaloniki at 12 mind, they fly often, I see them often ... and the Turks are often chased in the tail and in the mane, the Americans ask the same for their fu-16 block 70, even more more expensive, but they said about fluppen (and our pilots) stay away ... but this is most likely politics. From French I only liked chocolate, and that is because it contains cocaine, if they are wounded in battle, then ... chocolate with cocaine is a thing. When I served, we opened one French dry ration, looked at what it consists of ... and I didn't like anything else from there. We have better and healthier food, well, tastier ..
      1. nks
        nks 12 January 2021 19: 51
        0
        Quote: parkello
        we are based in the mixed regiment F16, Mirage2000 and F-4 phantom

        Where is this? I understand the swoop m2000 only in the 114 air wing in Tanagra and the F-16 is not there.

        Quote: parkello
        our missiles are mainly French

        Missiles in your armament are mostly American, because you have a m2000 of 30+, and an f-16 150+, but the Turks are chased by mirages - yes :)
        Quote: parkello
        French I only liked chocolate, and that is because it contains cocaine

        Ltd:)))
        1. parkello
          parkello 12 January 2021 23: 28
          +1
          all Alexey, blown away? I live next to the 113th squadron, near Vasilik and nothing that I see all the time and F-16 and mirages? and if you take Didimotiho, there I have relatives living on the Turkish border .. also a lot of air forces fly. but there are more F-5s, and Tanagra is a NATO base, not a purely Greek one, there are full of Belgians and a Frenchman. I remembered ... Tanagra ... except for Tanagra, we have nowhere else to base planes according to your ... some islands of what are, dug up and down ... look for hangings ... among 200 islands from which they take off.
          1. nks
            nks 13 January 2021 07: 46
            0
            Yergos, I didn’t pout.

            Quote: parkello
            nothing that I see all the time and f-16 and mirages?

            Nothing. I'm not talking about what you see in the sky. Aircraft can fly everywhere and be temporarily based too (if the infrastructure allows), I mean that in HAF there is no mixed regiment with F-16 and m2000, and 113 air wing (includes 383 squadron), according to official information, is not fighter at all
            https://www.haf.gr/structure/day/113pm/ (в свое время там были F-5, но миражей никогда не было)
            Mirages in 114 wing only
            https://www.haf.gr/structure/ata/114pm/

            PS: Be careful with cocainium :)
    4. Keyser soze
      Keyser soze 12 January 2021 19: 23
      +5
      Are Rafali that good


      Just great. We looked around in them, our president rolled one of these when he was visiting Frankia, but it was painfully expensive and bought an F16 Block 70, which is also not cheap ...

      But the Greeks already have the infrastructure and weapons on the Mirages and they will fit under Rafali, so it will be cheaper, and it will be faster to retrain pilots. I suppose that's why we bought them.
  4. pytar
    pytar 12 January 2021 17: 07
    +5
    Rafale are worthy of the heir to the Mirages. Greece has Mirage 2000, long ago.
    1. parkello
      parkello 12 January 2021 18: 00
      +5
      Yes, yes, and they were often sent to deal with the Turks. The Turks often fly in, and with full suspensions, there is fuel and rockets to the eyeballs, on f 16 block 30 or f-4 a phantom, they were given a tail many times, they do not want to understand anything. only brute force is recognized request so the Mirages chased them yes They have good avionics ... radar, missiles, probably because of the work of their radar, they buy Rafali. Well, you don't need to teach pilots.
      1. Sailor
        Sailor 12 January 2021 19: 39
        +2
        I agree with you completely, the Turks understand strength, and to mumble as our leadership is doing, does not respect themselves.
      2. nks
        nks 12 January 2021 19: 54
        0
        Quote: parkello
        pilots do not need to be taught.

        It is necessary. Necessarily necessary
        1. parkello
          parkello 12 January 2021 23: 07
          +1
          no, well, you need it ... you just have to learn less. it is easier to teach from the Mirages on Rafali than from the Mirage on the MiG35 .. although our pilots fly with the Egyptians and conducted exercises with the Syrians both with Armenia and Serbia ... where there are Orthodox Christians everywhere "our". and in Egypt there is a large and strong diaspora, who will know, Demis Rusos is also from the Egyptian Greeks from the diaspora, by the way. and we have good pilots, the best in NATO. definitely better than the French. repeat They themselves said that our pilots are certainly cool, but the Greeks are better ... there are no planes, yes ... we do not make planes, but we fight better, and are not afraid of anyone.
          1. konstantinos kontogiannidis
            konstantinos kontogiannidis 12 January 2021 23: 14
            -1
            Demi Russo is some kind of general!?!
            1. parkello
              parkello 12 January 2021 23: 19
              0
              costa, about Demis ina pasignostos ... idika stus rosus. And what does the general have to do with it, are you going to fight as generals? for me personally, my captain is enough for my eyes, and God forbid war ... many mothers will cry for their sons. me violet who are you .. I have already lived my life, I will die like a man winked and whoever runs to that personally I will fire a bullet ... well, if I don’t hack it with a shovel
              1. konstantinos kontogiannidis
                konstantinos kontogiannidis 16 January 2021 08: 55
                -1
                As far as I know in the Greek army, sapper blades are not in such use as in Russia! Who will die how it is not yet known! You can't fight much with the Greeks! I know this from the first person ... they will scatter like cockroaches in the kitchen at night !!!
                1. parkello
                  parkello 17 January 2021 00: 49
                  0
                  looking in whose hands recourse in mine, this is a melee weapon, you probably think badly about the Greeks Costa ... you know some badly. if you don’t want to, don’t answer, it’s even better than talking about a lot of your style .. winked
                  1. konstantinos kontogiannidis
                    konstantinos kontogiannidis 18 January 2021 01: 22
                    -1
                    I'm bored to have discussions about nothing!
          2. nks
            nks 13 January 2021 07: 51
            0
            Quote: parkello
            just have to learn less. it is easier to teach from Mirage to Rafali than from Mirage to MiG35

            As far as I understand, you don't have any sideways attitude to aviation in order to talk about it. The course (in terms of cost and duration) is standard. And the Rafale is somewhere even more like the F-16 in terms of control, because there is a side stick (sidestick like on the f-16 and civil airbus), and not the central control stick, like on m2000
            1. parkello
              parkello 13 January 2021 12: 06
              0
              I have nothing to do with aviation, I served in the ground forces. and so what if the control knob is there like at -16? request I said that after the Mirage it is easier to get pilots to the Rafale than to the MiG-35, if our pilots were satisfied with the f-16 block 70, then we would buy these particular aircraft, it means that something does not suit the wrong people buy and the control stick is here absolutely no sideways? and if YOU have anything to do with aviation, then perhaps this is where all your knowledge in this area is on the pens and ends. if you have not noticed I have the usual epaulettes of the ground forces, and not blue like that of the Air Force.
              1. nks
                nks 13 January 2021 12: 33
                0
                I judge solely by your statements, and not by shoulder straps (and here somehow the color of shoulder straps can be changed?). Your F-16 will be upgraded to block 70/72. And about the MiG-35 - you have already forgotten where you started. And don't be offended - it's better to write about what you understand.
                1. parkello
                  parkello 13 January 2021 13: 58
                  0
                  difficult to read where did you start? from that and began ...
    2. TermNachTer
      TermNachTer 13 January 2021 00: 21
      0
      What kind of kids are those mirages? When were they last modernized?)))
  5. TermNachTer
    TermNachTer 13 January 2021 00: 20
    0
    Cool, 130 lyamas for a used "rafal")))) I would like to know how much they are used, so that the story with psheks, who bought a used F - 16, who simply did not fly)))
  6. smoltish
    smoltish 13 January 2021 07: 02
    0
    The author, "Justifying such a high price, the country's Ministry of Defense says that these amounts also include" subsequent maintenance of fighters and the initial equipping of weapons. " - why justifying? Maybe explaining to the ignorant? After all, a common man in the street does not know what the sum of the contract consists of. Training of pilots and technicians, weapons (or do you think it doesn't matter 10 missiles or 1000 is included in the contract amount?), Engines, equipment (both are not even businesslike), maintenance itself (and the plane is not taken into operation for 5 years ). Therefore, dividing the contract amount by the number of aircraft purchased is not entirely correct. Without knowing the details of the contract, it is difficult to say who cost more "Rafal" India or Greece.