Military Review

The myth "about the Russian occupation" of Georgia

110
The myth "about the Russian occupation" of Georgia
Mikhail Lermontov. Tiflis view


220 years ago, the Russian Emperor Paul I signed a decree on the annexation of Kartli-Kakheti (Georgia) to the Russian Empire. A great power saved a small people from complete enslavement and destruction. Georgia, as part of the Russian Empire and the USSR, came to unprecedented prosperity and prosperity, a rapid growth in the number of the Georgian people.

Degradation and extinction


The now "independent" Georgia, without subsidies, without help and working hands of Russia, is consistently degrading. Georgian nationalism led to a bloody civil war, the secession of Georgian autonomies - South Ossetia and Abkhazia.

Georgia has become a US puppet. And now, when the West has entered a period of systemic crisis and reset, it is doomed to become a protectorate of the new Turkish empire.

The country's economy has nothing to offer the world market. The bet on the development of the tourism sector is bit by the current crisis, which, in essence, has buried mass tourism. The country's economy (including tourism) can only be developed within the framework of a single political, economic, cultural and linguistic space with Russia.

At the same time, local nationalists consistently created the image of an enemy - Russia, Russians, who allegedly occupied and robbed Georgia, oppressed Georgians.

Georgian politicians, publicists and historians have crossed out several centuries stories their country, which flourished in creative work and brotherhood with the Russians.

The current global crisis-unrest shows that the Georgian people have no future without Russia. The West needs Georgia only as an outpost directed against the Russian state (which leads to further destruction of the country).

The rapid creation of a new Turkish empire named after Erdogan raises the question of a new status of the pro-Turkish protector (taking into account Russia's consistent loss of its positions in the Caucasus). Then again Islamization and Turkization, complete assimilation within the framework of the "Great Turan".

The population is constantly decreasing: from 5,4 million people in 1991 to 3,7 million in 2020.

Up to 2 million people have gone abroad. In the first wave, due to the ethnic policy of Tbilisi, Russians, Greeks, Jews, Armenians, Ossetians, Abkhazians, etc. fled. In the second wave, since the 2000s, Georgians themselves predominated among the migrants. People vote with their feet, the country has no future.

Between Turkey and Persia


In the XNUMXth century, Georgia split into three kingdoms: Kartli, Kakheti (east of the country) and Imereti (Western Georgia). There were also independent principalities: Mingrelia (Megrelia), Guria and Samtskhe-Saatabago.

All kingdoms and principalities also had internal fragmentation. The feudal lords constantly fought between themselves and the royal power, which weakened the country. In the same period, a layer of free peasant farmers disappeared there, their lands were seized by feudal lords. The serfs were completely dependent on the feudal lords, carried corvee and paid the rent. Feudal oppression was aggravated by obligations in favor of the king and his dignitaries.

At the same time, there was a threat of complete destruction of the Georgian people as a group of related tribes and clans.

Two regional empires fought for the territory of Georgia - Persia and Turkey. In 1555, Turkey and Persia divided Georgia among themselves. In 1590, the Turks took control of the entire Georgian territory. In 1612, the previous Turkish-Persian agreement on the division of spheres of influence in Georgia was restored.

In the XV-XVIII centuries. The South Caucasus, including the Georgian lands, became a battlefield between the Persians and the Turks. The struggle went on with varying success. Hordes of Turks and hordes of Persians alternately devastated and plundered Georgia. Attempts to resist were choking. Youth, girls and children were taken into slavery. They pursued a policy of Islamization and assimilation. They resettled the masses of the population at their own discretion. The remnants of local residents, hoping to survive, fled higher and higher into the mountains.

It should be noted that at the same time, the bulk of the Georgian feudal lords did not live so badly. Compared to the common people, who now experienced not only feudal, but also cultural, national and religious oppression. Georgian feudal lords quickly learned to maneuver between the Turks and Persians, and they used the wars of the great powers to increase their lands and the number of subjects.

In the Persian Empire, the Kartvelian principalities became part of a single state. The Georgian provinces lived according to the same laws and rules as other parts of this empire. Most of the officials appointed by the shah were from local residents. These were the Islamized Georgian princes and nobles. The Shah's army defended Georgia from the raids of the mountain tribes. The taxes collected from the Georgian principalities were no higher than in Persia or Turkey itself.

Georgian nobility on equal terms entered the elite of Persia. Dynastic marriages were common. Representatives of the Georgian elite were brought up from childhood at the court of the shah, then they were appointed officials in the provinces, both Persian and Georgian. Many among them were military leaders who fought for the empire.

The center of the political life of the Georgian elite moved to Tehran and Isfahan. Here were the main intrigues, a struggle was waged for the royal and princely thrones, marriages were made, honorary and lucrative positions were obtained.

If necessary, Georgian feudal lords easily converted to Islam, changed their names to Muslim. When the situation changed, they returned to the fold of the Christian church.

That is, the Georgian elite quite successfully became part of the Persian. However, this process was combined with Islamization, that is, the Georgian nobility lost their civilizational, cultural and national identity.

The Persian culture supplanted the Georgian one. The architecture took Iranian forms, the upper and middle classes spoke Persian. They started Persian libraries, Georgian literature moved from Byzantine canons to Persian. Only the monasteries still kept the remains of Georgian icon painting and writing. The secular world in the XNUMXth century had already become Persian.

The slave trade


Georgian feudal lords also found a very profitable product for the Islamic world. At that time, human trafficking (slave trade) was comparable to the oil and gas trade in the XNUMXth century. In Western Georgia, feudal lords assumed the right to sell serfs to the Turkish markets. In exchange, they received oriental luxury goods.

This became one of the leading reasons (along with the devastating wars, strife and raids of the highlanders) of the catastrophic decrease in the population of Georgia. Only in the XVI century the population of the western part of Georgia decreased by half. This is at a very high level of childbearing in the Middle Ages.

In the middle of the XNUMXth century, this disaster took on such horrific forms that the church council, on pain of death, banned the "slaughterhouse". However, the authorities did not have the strength, and often the desire, to restore order. The slave trade continued until the mid-XNUMXth century.

It is worth remembering that the Georgian nobility did not differ in any way, for example, from the European one. European feudal lords behaved no better. Therefore, it is necessary to clearly separate the interests of the Georgian elite, which quite flourished against the background of the calamities of commoners, and the interests of the common people.

In general, the same can be seen in the modern Caucasian state formations - Georgia, Armenia and Azerbaijan. The policy of maneuvering between the interests of the West, Turkey, Iran and Russia, like the war, brings income only to a small stratum of the current nobility. The common people are dying out, fleeing, living in poverty, and have no future.

Ordinary Georgians at that time lived in constant fear and horror of the invasion of the Turks and Persians (from the west, south and east), the annual raids of the wild mountaineers (from the north). Another horror for them was the local feudal lords, squeezing all the juices out of them, selling their children into slavery.

Therefore, ordinary people hoped only for the help of the Orthodox, Christian state - Russia.

Only the Russian kingdom in time could ensure peace and security in the Caucasus, save local Christians, and soften wild morals.

But for most of the feudal lords, Moscow was only one of the players, and at first not the strongest one that could be used, receive certain privileges and gifts.

Russia is called for help


The Russians were not invaders.

They were called from the very beginning as saviors of the Christian people. Already in 1492, the Tsar of Kakheti, Alexander, sent ambassadors to Moscow, asked for patronage and called himself a "slave" of the Russian Tsar Ivan III (recognition of vassal dependence).

That is, from the very beginning, the South Caucasus understood that only Orthodox Moscow could save them.

Now, at a time of complete degradation of the Christian world, unbelief and the domination of materialism ("golden calf") it is difficult to understand. But then these were not empty words. Faith was fiery, earnest, they fought for it and accepted death.

Almost a century later, the Kakhetian king Alexander II, who was threatened by both Turks and Persians,

"Beat his forehead with all the people that the only Orthodox sovereign" accepted them into citizenship, "saved their life and soul."

The Russian tsar Fyodor Ivanovich then took Kakheti into citizenship, took the title of sovereign of the Iverian land, Georgian kings and Kabardian land, Cherkassk and mountain princes.

Scientists, priests, monks, icon painters were sent to Georgia to restore the purity of the Orthodox faith. Material assistance was provided, ammunition was sent. Strengthened Tersk fortress.

In 1594, Moscow sent a detachment of the voivode, Prince Andrei Khvorostinin, to the Caucasus. He defeated the ruler of the Tarkov region - Shevkala, took his capital Tarki, forced him to flee to the mountains and went through all of Dagestan. But Khvorostinin could not keep his positions, his resources were limited (Russia could not yet firmly establish itself in the region), and the Kakhetian king pursued a flexible policy, refused military and material assistance.

Under pressure from the mountaineers and due to a lack of provisions, Prince Khvorostinin was forced to leave Tarki (the fortress was destroyed) and retreat.

At the same time, Alexander gave a new oath to Tsar Boris Godunov.

After the Russians left, Tsar Alexander tried to appease the Persian Shah Abbas and allowed his son Constantine (he was at the court of the lord of Persia) to convert to Islam. But it did not help.

Abbas wished for complete obedience to Georgia. He gave Constantine an army and ordered to kill his father and brother.

In 1605, Constantine killed Tsar Alexander, Tsarevich George and the nobles supporting them. Constantine took the throne, but was soon killed by the rebels.

Meanwhile, Russian troops under the command of governors Buturlin and Pleshcheyev again tried to gain a foothold in Dagestan, but to no avail.

The successes of the Persian Empire in the fight against Turkey somewhat reassured the Georgian rulers. They began to forget about Russia and again lean towards Persia.

True, at the same time, Tsar George of Kartlin gave an oath for himself and his son to the Russian Tsar Boris Fedorovich. Boris demanded that the Georgian princess Elena be sent to Moscow to marry his son Fyodor. And the nephew of the Georgian king was to become the husband of the Russian princess Ksenia Godunova.

However, soon the Godunov family died, and Troubles began in the Russian kingdom. Russia has no time for the Caucasus. And the Kartlian king George was poisoned by the Persians.


King of Kakheti Alexander II (1574-1601, 1602-1605)

To be continued ...
Author:
Photos used:
https://ru.wikipedia.org/
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  1. Far B
    Far B 13 January 2021 04: 53
    +14
    The country's economy (including tourism) can only be developed within the framework of a single political, economic, cultural and linguistic space with Russia. At the same time, local nationalists have consistently created the image of an enemy - Russia, Russians, who allegedly occupied and plundered Georgia, oppressed Georgians
    Now, in order to create a common space with them again, it will take at least 20 more years - provided that there from Russia they will intensively create the image of a friend. And it's far from the fact that anything will come of it. Even more, it is not a fact that Russia needs it - Georgians even under the Soviet Union led a rather parasitic lifestyle. A cap-airfield on your head, a suitcase with roses - and forward, to the Russian markets, make some money. Attempts to create a more or less viable industry in the Georgian SSR failed miserably - those who drove the Kolkhida understand what I mean.
    1. Lipchanin
      Lipchanin 13 January 2021 05: 10
      +12
      Quote: Dalny V
      Georgians even under the Soviet Union led a rather parasitic lifestyle

      Practically nobody worked in the production. Only Russians
      But they loved to eat

      those who went to "Colchis" understand what I mean.

      Masterpiece cart laughing
      1. Pessimist22
        Pessimist22 13 January 2021 05: 52
        +25
        In Kazakhstan, too, when separating from the RSFSR into a union republic, there was nothing besides the steppes and cities founded by the Russians, and now they say that the Russians starved them and pursued a colonial policy, and who built the cities, infrastructure and educated the people do not say.
        1. Lipchanin
          Lipchanin 13 January 2021 06: 08
          +10
          Quote: Pessimist22
          but now they say that the Russians starved them and pursued a colonial policy, and they do not say who built the cities, infrastructure and educated the people.

          We have an area where many refugees live from there
          They tell this why they left and how they survived ...
      2. Far B
        Far B 13 January 2021 06: 00
        +5
        Yes, the gap between production and consumption is colossal. But, given their climatic conditions, they could make normal tea, citrus fruits, and much more - that is, at least try in the agricultural sector. But - the mentality is not that, right?
        PySy. Although their football was good ...
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 13 January 2021 08: 04
          +18
          Quote: Dalny V
          Yes, the gap between production and consumption is colossal. But, given their climatic conditions, they could make normal tea, citrus fruits, and much else - that is, at least try in the agricultural sector. But - the mentality is not that, right?

          what they were given. then they took (this also applies to all other republics)

          Another question is why they are afraid of all this, they are NOT earned , gave?
          After all, for this someone has. who earned these funds. they were taken! They took all 70 years from Russia!

          in 1932-33, famine covered vast territories of the USSR. including the North Caucasus, but in Georgia there was no hunger and this with that. that the overwhelming amount of grain is imported.

          fed them and Russian lands

          It's funny to compare. eg. the indigenous Russian Pskov region, where in 1968 70% had no electricity rural population and a flourishing rich GSSR.

          Such a policy has brought it to ABSURD: the nationals speak in all seriousness. that indigenous Russia was impoverished against the background of the republics, because the Russians ... are lazy, and it is they who earned everything ..
          1. Far B
            Far B 13 January 2021 08: 50
            +2
            ABOUT! And Olgovich was right there. Well, how not to spit on the Bolsheviks, right? But in Western Ukraine and in Czechoslovakia in the same 32-33 years there was also famine - did the Bolsheviks also try?
            We have already argued about that famine. Yes, in the USSR then several leaders "distinguished themselves" (Kosior and a number of others). But literally a few years later, they were put up against the wall for this. True, on other charges, so as not to cast a shadow on the party because of a few snickering woodpeckers - but this does not change the essence. There is no desire to resume the dispute - you, the person, tormented by narzan brought up by ROVS, you will not prove anything.
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 13 January 2021 10: 16
              +3
              Quote: Dalny V
              But in Czechoslovakia in the same 32-33 years too hunger was -
              belay fool lol

              to make everyone so hungry.
              Quote: Dalny V
              (Kosior and a number of others). But literally a few years later, they were put up against the wall for this. True, on other chargesso that because of a few snickering woodpeckers shadow on the party do not throw

              Yeah, and the accusations of SPY and state. betrayal of Kosior, etc. .... did not "cast" a shadow belay lol
              Quote: Dalny V
              There is no desire to resume the dispute

              there is nothing to argue about: the grain-producing regions of Russia were suffocating from hunger. and Georgia, which lived on imported grain, no.

              what does it say, huh?

              and so it was ALWAYS in the USSR:
              Georgia was the richest republic while its consistency completely depended on the resources of the RSFSR. Since the Stalin era, the level of total cost consumption of goods and services per capita bwas four to five times higher than production. Four to five times! No republic could afford this.... In the RSFSR, for example, consumption fell short of the production level by 30%.
              Source - VO

              we don't want to see the difference7
            2. sniperino
              sniperino 13 January 2021 11: 42
              -5
              Quote: Dalny V
              Rђ RІRѕS, в Western Ukraine
              Well, well ... And whose Crimea? laughing
              1. Far B
                Far B 14 January 2021 00: 33
                -5
                Well, well ... And whose Crimea?
                What wanted to say something, sickly?
                1. sniperino
                  sniperino 14 January 2021 09: 32
                  -1
                  Quote: Far In
                  Well, well ... And whose Crimea?
                  What wanted to say something, sickly?
                  Works!!!
          2. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
            Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 13 January 2021 10: 22
            +9
            Quote: Olgovich
            Another question, why were they so scared, they didn’t earn it?

            A very interesting question, Olgych. And I personally do not understand the mechanisms for the distribution of subsidies in the USSR. I tried to find the answer in the memoirs of Soviet bureaucrats - I did not find it. Silaev, who was chairman of the Council of Ministers at the end of the 80s (and before that for 5 years - a deputy) generally writes that it was a shock for him (!) When
            it turned out that Russia was the most economically oppressed republic, that it was a gigantic donor for 12 other "fraternal" republics. We did not subsidize only Belarus and Latvia.
            (Silaev)
            This, damn it, writes, for a minute, the prime minister, his mother, the minister! "It turned out"! With such a level of economic managers, the Union was doomed. There was an attempt before his death to create a subsidy fund, or rather, a kind of mutual assistance fund, from which the grandmother would be distributed with relative fairness in exchange for natural products. But
            All this was met by the republics with extreme irritability and categorical intransigence. Indeed, to whom did the prospect of making money themselves smile ...
            (Silaev)
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 13 January 2021 12: 24
              +9
              Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
              A very interesting question, Olgych. And I personally do not understand the mechanisms for the distribution of subsidies in the USSR. I tried to find the answer in the memoirs of Soviet bureaucrats - I did not find it. Silaev, who was the chairman of the Council of Ministers at the end of the 80s (and before that 5 years - a deputy) generally writes that it was a shock for him


              the question was on the surface - it was the purposeful policy of the party.

              The first to be outraged by the robbery of Russia in favor of the nationals was the Prime Minister of the USSR Rykov. He was shot.

              According to silaev, this is how much one had to be divorced from life in order not to see the difference in the life of the regions, which was simply striking in everyday life.
              1. Crowe
                Crowe 13 January 2021 12: 39
                +17
                I was on business trips often to work in Central Asia - the difference is striking in the availability of goods in their stores and here in the RSFSR. I'm not talking about the Baltic states. This business was very annoying then. Did they work better? No, the industry is powerful. , did everyone in the factories admire? Again, no. Cotton and that was bodied and engaged in postscripts.
            2. paul3390
              paul3390 13 January 2021 18: 22
              +7
              And I personally do not understand the mechanisms for the distribution of subsidies in the USSR.

              Everything happened from simple considerations - they tried to drag the national republics into socialism directly from the tribal system, well, at best, from feudalism. Bypassing all intermediate stages. Which, of course, was a mistake, you cannot drive to paradise with kicks, everyone has to go his own way.
              But then - it seemed that if you pour in the dough and create an industry, then the proletariat will appear, and here it is - will go to meet the dawn. The industry was created, but the proletariat had to be brought in Russian .. For the locals did not want to work at all from the word, but it was simply mortally dangerous to put them on complicated jobs. With all that it implies ..
            3. sniperino
              sniperino 14 January 2021 10: 16
              +2
              Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
              mechanisms for the distribution of subsidies in the USSR
              In 1923, at the XII Congress of the RCP (b), a course was taken for economic assistance in the development of backward peoples. It was necessary to form a working class among them. For this, industrial facilities were built mainly in the nat. republics and autonomous regions. Assistance to them was carried out through the central budget, which led to the advanced development of Moscow, nat. republics and regions and the oppression of donor territories, historically developed by the Russians.
        2. akinak-f
          akinak-f 13 January 2021 11: 11
          +14
          About citrus fruits. In the USSR, they did exist, and just from Georgia (including the autonomies - Abkhazia and Adjara). But. In the entire market world, the cost of citrus fruits is comparable to the cost of ... potatoes (!!!). And now, who lived in the USSR, remember the prices? Potatoes - 20 kopecks / kg. Tangerines - 2 rubles / kg. The difference is an order of magnitude. And you can't explain it with logistics: railway transport in the Union worked smoothly. This is where the difference in the standard of living comes from: Georgia was subsidized by the entire Union at the expense of the artificially raised price for agricultural products in Georgia.
      3. nikvic46
        nikvic46 13 January 2021 06: 58
        -9
        Sergei. Who eats whom, you do not have to go far. Georgia was not an industrial country. But it gave money to the treasury no less than Sochi. And the mountain dwellers ate their food and were not people with outstretched hands. And as for parasites, then there were no more of them in Georgia than in Russia. Yes, and now there are enough. But the fact is, these are not pensioners.
        1. Lipchanin
          Lipchanin 13 January 2021 07: 07
          +8
          Quote: nikvic46
          Georgia was not an industrial country, but it gave money to the treasury no less than Sochi.

          And where did they come from?
          Falling from the sky?
          Have you seen the table?
          The militiamen ask the Georgian.
          - Can you buy a Volga?
          After the debt of silence
          - No.
          Well, of course, it's wrong. Gone.
          Friends then ask him
          - Can't you really?
          - Why do I need this stinking river with its berths, steamships ...
          Please tell me why the average Gruuzin was richer than the average Russian?
          I remember those times how they and we lived
          1. aleksejkabanets
            aleksejkabanets 13 January 2021 07: 50
            +4
            Quote: Lipchanin
            Please tell me why the average Gruuzin was richer than the average Russian?
            I remember those times how they and we lived

            Not only Georgians. Because in the republics, shopkeepers, speculators and other nasty things flourished more.
          2. Kot_Kuzya
            Kot_Kuzya 13 January 2021 07: 52
            +4
            Georgia was gorgeous due to its unique climate for the USSR, only Georgia on the territory of the USSR had a climate of humid subtropics, which made it possible to grow tea, tobacco and citrus fruits. The USSR kept the currency and generally preferred independence from external supplies, and therefore preferred to buy tea, tobacco and citrus fruits from the Georgians, even if they were significantly worse quality than foreign ones, albeit inferior, but their own. And I bought these goods from Georgians at artificially inflated prices, this has been the custom since the days of Stalin. And plus, of course, the famous Georgian and Abkhaz resorts, which also brought good money to the Georgians. And then, when the USSR collapsed, it became more profitable for Russia to buy Spanish and Turkish citrus fruits, Indian and Chinese tea, American tobacco, which were both better and cheaper than shoddy Georgian goods. And it was more profitable for Russians to travel to the resorts of Turkey and Egypt, where it is cheaper and the level of service is much higher. And so all the exaggerated Georgian well-being was blown away.
            1. Mordvin 3
              Mordvin 3 13 January 2021 08: 22
              +1
              Quote: Kot_Kuzya
              tea, tobacco and citrus fruits.

              And they themselves brought watermelons with grapes to our markets.
              1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 13 January 2021 10: 01
                0
                Quote: Mordvin 3
                And they themselves brought watermelons with grapes to our markets.

                I'm not sure about Georgian watermelons)
                1. Mordvin 3
                  Mordvin 3 13 January 2021 10: 10
                  +2
                  Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                  I'm not sure about Georgian watermelons)

                  Why? They stole from them more than once. And they worked part-time, at loading and unloading. I remember one grandfather with a grandson of our age, they said that they raised the watermelons themselves. Unlike many other Georgians who carried watermelons in trucks, these were brought in by a Muscovite pie.
                  1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                    Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 13 January 2021 10: 33
                    +4
                    Well, maybe I won't argue)
                    We from construction brigades returned exactly to the "watermelon" epic, and also
                    Quote: Mordvin 3
                    moonlighting, loading and unloading

                    The watermelons were from Astrakhan and Kuban. Under Krasnodar, cunning tight-fisted Armenians always turned around.
                    1. Mordvin 3
                      Mordvin 3 13 January 2021 11: 01
                      0
                      Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                      The watermelons were from Astrakhan and Kuban. Under Krasnodar, cunning tight-fisted Armenians always turned around.

                      And in our market, Georgians sold watermelons entirely.
            2. Olgovich
              Olgovich 13 January 2021 12: 40
              +7
              Quote: Kot_Kuzya
              Georgia was gorgeous due to its unique climate for the USSR, only Georgia on the territory of the USSR had a climate of humid subtropics, which made it possible to grow tea, tobacco and citrus fruits.

              yes all this penny. without huge gratuitous injections from Russia. They would not have held out in any way.
              just think about the number-
              Approximate calculations of gratuitous financial injections into the Georgian SSR for the entire period of the "occupation" are approaching half a TRILLION dollars

              https://topwar.ru/172716-vitrina-sssr-i-muzej-sovetskoj-okkupacii-korotkaja-pamjat-sovremennoj-gruzii.html
              .
              belay
              What "tangerines" ?! request
          3. nikvic46
            nikvic46 13 January 2021 09: 00
            -8
            Sergei. While our goons consider any republic to be parasites, other countries do not think so. Turkey in particular. As for the guilds, they were in Central Asia. And from a military point of view, Moldova and Georgia were badly needed. ...
          4. Machito
            Machito 13 January 2021 14: 57
            +6
            Quote: Lipchanin
            Quote: nikvic46
            Georgia was not an industrial country, but it gave money to the treasury no less than Sochi.

            And where did they come from?
            Falling from the sky?
            Have you seen the table?
            The militiamen ask the Georgian.
            - Can you buy a Volga?
            After the debt of silence
            - No.
            Well, of course, it's wrong. Gone.
            Friends then ask him
            - Can't you really?
            - Why do I need this stinking river with its berths, steamships ...
            Please tell me why the average Gruuzin was richer than the average Russian?
            I remember those times how they and we lived

            As the Georgians say: Throughout its history, Georgia lived well for only 70 years as part of the USSR.
        2. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
          Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 13 January 2021 09: 54
          +4
          Quote: nikvic46
          Georgia was not an industrial country, but it gave no less money to the treasury than Sochi

          Why Sochi? Can you explain the logic of this strange Georgia-Sochi pair? Are you comparing the economy of a union republic with the economy of one city of regional subordination?
      4. Foul skeptic
        Foul skeptic 13 January 2021 15: 26
        0
        Does it bother you that the data is presented in dollars, in the Union it was in them that the calculations were carried out?
        Maybe the postscript will confuse - the data of "Soviet Russia" for 1992 year? You have never encountered Zavidia, as I understand it))
      5. No name B
        No name B 13 January 2021 17: 09
        -5
        If everyone consumed more than Russia and Belarus produced, how was the difference made up? Or the table is lying or the USSR has lived beyond its means all the time?
      6. An K-s
        An K-s 13 January 2021 18: 40
        -2
        The RSFSR flag was not much different, but oh well EG and all that.
    2. Crowe
      Crowe 13 January 2021 08: 38
      +18
      Now, in order to create a single space with them again, it will take at least 20 more years.

      After the war, it’s like no more. Is it necessary at all? Again, as in Lipchanin's table, there will be two sisters (Russia and Belarus) plowing in the field, and seven (even thirteen) waving their hands.
      1. Far B
        Far B 13 January 2021 08: 53
        +11
        And I'm not saying what is needed. On the contrary, the newcomers should be evicted from here. Together with the ara-azer.
    3. Civil
      Civil 13 January 2021 10: 28
      +4

      The now "independent" Georgia, without subsidies, without the help and working hands of Russia, is consistently degrading

      Except for the Baltics, the countries of the former USSR, all are degrading. Each at its own pace.
      1. Central Asia is slipping into the classical eastern khanates, despite the growing population.
      2. The Caucasus is torn apart by ethnic wars.
      3. Ukraine, Belarus, Moldova are torn from the inside by the conflict over the standard of living in the EU and in Russia.
      4. Russia's problems are also known - population decline, disproportion of incomes between the center and the subjects, impoverishment of the population due to rising prices and falling incomes.
  2. Lipchanin
    Lipchanin 13 January 2021 05: 03
    +2
    Well, who have we not yet "occupied"?
    Who's in the queue?
    1. Mykhalych
      Mykhalych 13 January 2021 05: 34
      +3
      Quote: Lipchanin
      Well, who have we not yet "occupied"?
      Who's in the queue?

      Mustache 15 ex.
      1. Lipchanin
        Lipchanin 13 January 2021 05: 41
        +3
        Quote: Mykhalych
        Quote: Lipchanin
        Well, who have we not yet "occupied"?
        Who's in the queue?

        Mustache 15 ex.

        And not only. Poles, Czechs, Hungarians, ..
        The entire former socialist camp
      2. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
        Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 13 January 2021 12: 52
        +1
        Quote: Mykhalych
        Mustache 15 ex.

        If 15 - then who then
        Quote: Lipchanin
        we

        ?
  3. Lech from Android.
    Lech from Android. 13 January 2021 05: 09
    +4
    Georgia found itself in an interesting position between Turkey and Russia ... The attempt to kick Russia cost the Georgians dearly ... Let's see how the Georgians will talk to the Turks
    1. Lipchanin
      Lipchanin 13 January 2021 05: 15
      +4
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      Let's see how Georgians will talk to Turks

      Will the Turks talk to them, or will they immediately put
      1. Lech from Android.
        Lech from Android. 13 January 2021 05: 32
        +6
        Well, given Erdogan's impulsiveness, the second option is likely. In general, Georgia's policy towards its formidable neighbors sometimes resembles the behavior of a young bully ... As soon as he received a power screwdriver, he immediately calmed down, but harbored resentment and would shit at any opportunity. So with Georgia, you always have to keep the whip ready.
        1. Lipchanin
          Lipchanin 13 January 2021 05: 43
          +3
          Quote: Lech from Android.
          In general, Georgia's policy towards its formidable neighbors sometimes resembles the behavior of a young bully ... As soon as he received a power screwdriver, he immediately calmed down, but harbored resentment and would shit at any opportunity.

          A vivid example 8
        2. paul3390
          paul3390 13 January 2021 18: 34
          +4
          No, what of the Georgians is a bully? They just follow the orders of the owner. And the owner is changed as soon as it seems to them that it is profitable .. After the collapse of the USSR, they decided that Russia was like everything, there would be no nishtyakov from it. And they began a feverish search. It seemed that they had finally found - the US and the EU were kind and generous. Oh well. In fact, this is in the Georgian tradition, in the same way they threw their former owners. It's just that they have the mentality of a slave - albeit cunning, flattering and arrogant, but a slave .. They cannot live without masters. By the way, the Ukrainians and the Poles have something similar. However - mentally it is generally one people ..
          1. Xnumx vis
            Xnumx vis 13 January 2021 20: 06
            +3
            Quote: paul3390
            No, what of the Georgians is a bully?

            Almost all the thieves in law were from Georgia .. So, how to look ... Thieves and traders are strong ...
            1. paul3390
              paul3390 13 January 2021 21: 08
              +3
              A thief is still not a hooligan .. A thief can get in the snout only if he is caught, and a hooligan usually gets into a scuffle himself .. And if there are strong hustlers, why did such a country become sharply impoverished as soon as the USSR was gone?
              1. Xnumx vis
                Xnumx vis 14 January 2021 09: 59
                +2
                Quote: paul3390
                And if there are strong traders, why did such a country become sharply impoverished as soon as the USSR was gone?

                Dealers on deceit and theft .. Jeans were riveted under the company, plastic Marlboro bags .. Under the USSR, almost everything was in short supply .. There was room for "hustlers".
  4. Mykhalych
    Mykhalych 13 January 2021 05: 33
    +6
    The same can be said about Ukraine, until the moment when it began to "overgrow" territories thanks to the mercies of the Soviet leadership.
    1. Lipchanin
      Lipchanin 13 January 2021 05: 45
      +1
      Quote: Mykhalych
      thanks to the mercies of the Soviet leadership.

      Yes, there was mercy ...
  5. kapitan92
    kapitan92 13 January 2021 05: 33
    +9
    Georgia split into three kingdoms in the XNUMXth century: Kartli, Kakheti (east of the country) and Imereti (western Georgia). There were also independent principalities: Mingrelia (Megrelia), Guria and Samtskhe-Saatabago.

    Not entirely correct.
    Analyzing the languages ​​of the peoples of this region on the basis of medieval chronicle materials, it can be noted that the language of the Gyurjs, called Georgian, has been spreading in Transcaucasia since the XNUMXth century, although at that time, as already mentioned, there was no state or nationality with such a name.
    The term "Georgia" comes from the Arabic "Gurj" and from the Persian "Gorg" - wolf, in accordance with the Arab-Iranian name "Gyurjistan" - the land of wolves. The Persians, who repeatedly raided these lands, called the land of wolves the whole territory that was above their northern border and the countries adjacent to it, both from the east and from the west of the present Caspian Sea. The term "gurzane", "gurdzhi" was originally attributed both to all the peoples of the Transcaucasia and to the peoples living north of the Caucasian ridge, where wolves were also found. This name did not belong to any tribe or people specifically, but was a kind of generalized name for all the inhabitants found north of the border of the civilized world at that time (Persia, Arabs, Armenia).

    Geographically, "Gurjistan" was initially attributed to the regions adjacent to the northeastern borders of Armenia, later to the more northern parts of Transcaucasia, and then to the entire Transcaucasia, without taking into account the ethnically different tribes and peoples living there. For about ten centuries, the term "Gurdzhi", and in the later Russian transcription - "Georgians", referred either to the Abkhaz, or to the Iberians, or to all the peoples of Transcaucasia at once. This term was originally not tied in historical terms either to a specific ethnic group or to a specific territory and meant only "the people living in Transcaucasia", which at that time was used similarly to the current concept of "Siberian", that is, all those who are beyond the Urals without division into separate national or ethnic entities. The term "Georgians" also did not have a specific ethnicity, but was a kind of collective symbol, similar to the "natives" usually used by the colonialists, and adequate to today - "persons of Caucasian nationality."

    The inhabitants of Transcaucasia did not use the terms "Georgia" and "Georgians" themselves, since each of them had his own belonging to a particular tribe and nationality, and this was more significant. But for outside researchers, the use, the use of this term was convenient, since there was no need to understand the multitude of peoples inhabiting the Transcaucasus, it was easier to call them in one word that did not define anything. As a result, not only Abkhazians, who have no ethnic kinship ties with the tribes and peoples of Central Transcaucasia, turned out to be "Georgians", but also peoples such as the Meskhs, which are a completely different anthropological group of peoples, or the Ossetians and Circassians. It is significant that the Abkhaz themselves call modern Georgians "Gurjs".
    The arguments of modern Georgian historians and politicians trying to prove the uniqueness of the modern nation of "Georgians" are designed for the ignorant, those inhabitants of Russia, America and Europe, for whom the world is presented in such a way that only blacks live in Africa, and only Georgians in the Caucasus.

    http://abkhazia.narod.ru/SH/chap-24.html
  6. Kot_Kuzya
    Kot_Kuzya 13 January 2021 05: 41
    +4
    But Russia doesn't need this Georgia for nothing, let them live as they want. I hope that soon the Turks of Adjara will squeeze out where their fellow believers live.
    1. Lipchanin
      Lipchanin 13 January 2021 05: 52
      +1
      Quote: Kot_Kuzya
      I hope that soon the Turks of Adjara will squeeze out where their fellow believers live.

      Erdogash does not seem to miss his
  7. Catfish
    Catfish 13 January 2021 06: 23
    +10
    From the history of Russian-Georgian relations. 2008 year.



    It's a pity, only 60 km are left.
  8. forester1971
    forester1971 13 January 2021 09: 44
    +2
    [quote] [the Georgian people have no future without Russia. The West needs Georgia only as an outpost directed against the Russian state (which leads to the further destruction of the country) ./ quote] This is the role that the West provides for all the republics of the former USSR. If there is no Russia, then all Georgia, Latvia, Ukraine and others. The West will not need the word "absolutely" and then a very unenviable fate awaits them. Nobody will give them money and resources just like that.
  9. icant007
    icant007 13 January 2021 10: 27
    +4
    https://www.apn.ru/index.php?newsid=37897


    The Soviet government thanked the Georgians GENEROUSLY. Since 1921, when Georgia was annexed to the USSR, Georgians have been in a super-super-privileged position. Suffice it to recall. That throughout the history of the USSR, Georgians ruled this country - from Ordzhonikidze and Beria to Eduard Shevardnadze. Georgians were the first or second in the unspoken list of the ruling peoples of the country.

    Soviet Georgia itself was a small paradise, incredibly prosperous.

    I deliberately digress from the wonderful natural conditions of the republic. Only Georgia can be compared with the blessed Mediterranean, this earthly paradise. For the Russian man, exhausted by the endless winter, cold and hunger, Georgia was - and even now remains - an unthinkable paradise. In the conditions of the prohibition of foreign countries, Georgia was the only place where a Soviet person could warm up and eat fruit. The most prestigious resorts in the USSR were Gagra and Pitsunda.

    Let's go further. Even according to official data (extremely underestimated), the level of per capita consumption in Georgia was 4 times higher than the same indicator of production. In the RSFSR, however, the consumption indicator was only 75% of the production level (and this is an overestimated figure - the Russians were devoured and robbed much more strongly: the Russians literally lived from hand to mouth). In 1990, Georgia's GDP per capita was 10,6 thousand dollars, and the level of per capita consumption was 41,9 thousand dollars, that is, each Georgian consumed 33,3 thousand dollars more than he earned. In terms of consumption, Georgia was in first place in the USSR, that is, it lived the best.

    And this is only official. Unofficially, small business and private agricultural production were de facto allowed in Georgia. Moreover, super-profitable conditions were created so that Georgian vegetables and fruits could be resold at super-high prices. Green Georgian tangerines would not be competitive on the world market, but the Soviet government did not buy cheap and tasty foreign tangerines. The same was true for everything else, from meat to parsley. The Georgians controlled most of the "collective farm markets" on the territory of the RSFSR, selling grapes and mulberries almost by their weight in gold. The great French historian Braudel, who once visited the USSR, understood how the local "economic model" works when he saw the Georgians loading boxes with greens on the plane (!). In a normal world, this would be impossible - but not in the USSR.

    The Georgian SSR, according to economist Kennan Eric Scott of the Washington Institute, supplied 95% of tea and 97% of tobacco to Soviet counters. The lion's share of citrus fruits (95%) also went to the regions of the USSR from Georgia.

    It is worth mentioning especially about tea and tobacco. Georgian tea tasted so disgusting that Indian tea had to be mixed with it so that it could somehow be drunk. Nevertheless, the whole Union was watered with this nasty heap. Georgian tobacco was just as rubbish, and just as uncontested.

    Georgian wine is also worth mentioning. The Soviet government invested incredible funds and efforts, trying to somehow improve its quality. Suffice it to recall the Kvareli tunnel, carved into the rock - a multi-kilometer structure used as a wine cellar. The tunnel was built by Metrostroy. The costs of this tunnel were such that they would have made it possible to build a full-fledged metro in some major city. But the wine cellar was more important for Georgians.

    The well-being of Georgians was described by a famous Soviet anecdote: a Georgian walks into a restaurant, puts a suitcase on the table, and when asked “what is it,” he says, “it’s a cough”. So it was approximately: the gap between the incomes of a Georgian and a Russian was fundamental, more than an order of magnitude, and often by two orders. The Russians were struggling for a salary of 120 - 150 rubles a month. For a Georgian, 1200 - 1500 rubles was a normal level of income, not causing much surprise. How many had those who were spinning in big business - think for yourself.

    At the same time, the Georgians had huge rights - for example, to build large private houses, to have land, and so on. Naive Russians, looking at the stone mansions of the Georgians somewhere in the backwoods, did not understand what was the matter. Well-fed imposing Georgians explained to them that Georgians are very hardworking, and I am a complete asshole that they do not know how to work and get drunk. The Russians believed.
    1. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 13 January 2021 14: 45
      -3
      Quote: icant007
      https://www.apn.ru/index.php?newsid=37897

      Why are you repeating someone's backs? Can't you say it in your own words? I found several points in this text that I strongly disagree with.
      1. icant007
        icant007 13 January 2021 17: 22
        +3
        Quote: Mordvin 3
        Why are you repeating someone's backs? Can't you say it in your own words? I found several points in this text that I strongly disagree with.


        For God's sake. Just led to the development of the topic.
        I am not an expert on Georgia to judge with authority on this issue.
  10. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
    Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 13 January 2021 11: 07
    +2
    I don't quite understand why such a distant retrospective? RI came directly to the borders of Georgia (more precisely, Imereti and Kartli-Kakheti) only under E2. Well, I would have started right away with the Georgievsky treatise and Irakli Bagrationi, who was extremely cunning and did not adhere to the provisions of the treatise, making peace with the Ottomans. And when he passed away, and the expected rat throne race began in Tbiliso, P1 decided - well, fuck it - it's time to strap on to Russia.
    The funny thing is that at first P1 was a bit ock - but what will Europe say? But Europe didn't care.
  11. apro
    apro 13 January 2021 11: 16
    -2
    Not only Georgians love myths ... they understand why. Having received statehood, they did not get along with the Russian Federation. Interests too different. All the more, it is not so comfortable to lead a parasitic life under the wing of Russian capitalists. Yes, and their ambitions are not backed up by anything. ... then they could not deeply integrate the Georgian territories into their sphere of influence. in spite of the military protection. no material injections and the recognition of the Georgians as equal .. and now they regret the wasted resources.
    The Soviet period is also grieving, for the same reason, despite the success of the integration processes, but eventually subsided due to the loss of party members' communist energy and a clear goal.
  12. Humpty
    Humpty 13 January 2021 12: 35
    +8
    When these wretched people received a public flogging in the eighth year, then in Israel, Belarus, Ukraine there was an agitation for rest in Georgia, they say they need to support their "victims". For whom rest is - to devour, those who have not seen food before, even had good reviews, but who in the subject, what and how - assessed tourism to Georgia adequately.
    Quote: Dalny V
    who went to "Colchis" understand what I mean.

    In tourism, they broke something humanly to do, and you mean a Georgian car.
    In a shaggy year, go for the shashlik sheep, they gave the Georgian team a prize in the union championship, perhaps the first. The following year, this achievement was torn like a hot water bottle by Tuzik. The Georgians were offended in all seriousness.
    1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 13 January 2021 12: 57
      -5
      Quote: Humpty
      but who is in the subject, what and how - assessed tourism to Georgia adequately.

      Are you in the subject? I personally have not been, but all my friends who have visited Georgia were quite pleased with the trip. Is this "adequate"?
      1. Humpty
        Humpty 13 January 2021 12: 59
        +3
        Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
        Is this "adequate"?

        If you haven't seen food before, then yes, that's adequate.
        1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
          Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 13 January 2021 13: 00
          -4
          Quote: Humpty
          If you haven't seen food before, then yes, that's adequate.

          Are you too arrogant?)
          1. Humpty
            Humpty 13 January 2021 13: 37
            +6
            Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
            Quote: Humpty
            If you haven't seen food before, then yes, that's adequate.

            Are you too arrogant?)

            Do not know. As a rule, Georgians have problems with responsibility, in tourism it is felt very prominently.
            1. Xnumx vis
              Xnumx vis 13 January 2021 20: 28
              +6
              Quote: Humpty
              Do not know. As a rule, Georgians have problems with responsibility, in tourism it is felt very prominently.

              I was born in Georgia. Poti city. The people are cheerful, drunkards and loafers. The climate allows. Warm, humid, everything grows and bears fruit. Women work hard. Half of the men don't do a damn thing. We stood behind the counters, played sheshbesh (backgammon), drank wine and sang .... Of course, there are hard workers ... Maybe they are even the majority !!! But, behind the faces of idlers and swindlers, they are not visible .. There were a lot of traders, second-hand dealers, so humpy talk .. Houses are two floors, huge by the standards of the USSR. Here in Russia -
              Ukraine was not allowed in the country, or in a private house to equip an attic for housing! Forced to demolish. And these cheerful drunkards, idlers could not work and live happily ever after. There was no Soviet power as such in the Georgian SSR. Now they will start to minus !! And all this was tacitly allowed under Stalin and Beria. Their homeland ..Sakartvelo!
              1. Humpty
                Humpty 13 January 2021 20: 47
                +3
                Quote: 30 vis
                And these cheerful drunkards, idlers could not work and live happily ever after. There was no Soviet power as such in the Georgian SSR.

                Nothing has changed with them., A primitive desire to suck on to someone fatter and go on baldness. And through one - "princes".
                Quote: 30 vis
                Of course there are hard workers ..

                Exceptions don't change the rules.
                1. sniperino
                  sniperino 14 January 2021 10: 59
                  0
                  Quote: Humpty
                  through one "princes"
                  Although the Bagratids, the rulers of Georgia from the 11th to the 19th centuries, are officially of Armenian, and according to legend, Jewish origin.
                  1. Humpty
                    Humpty 14 January 2021 12: 05
                    +1
                    Quote: sniperino
                    are officially of Armenian, and according to legend, of Jewish origin.

                    For us, what is the point of measuring their skulls, boring things, meaningless and not popular. Although the stated by you is quite probable. Take at least the well-known Soviet history.
                    There lived an Armenian in Georgia, and his underage nephew was a Georgian. Uncle used his nephew as it seemed logical to him. And the nephew somehow took and handed over his pedophile uncle. The entire Georgian community was outraged for the young man's misconduct. Uncle got his seven.
                    1. sniperino
                      sniperino 14 January 2021 12: 32
                      0
                      Quote: Humpty
                      what's the point of measuring their skulls, boring things
                      Don't tell. In some ways, you can understand yourself better: we officially did not have Slavic ruling dynasties after Rurik, but there was a legend that the Russian language and the Slavic language are one. Isn't this the specificity of the historical confrontation between Westernizers and Slavophiles? It is still relevant. In Georgia, for comparison, anti-state thieves are on the stream.
                      PS. I don't know about the pedophile, but I think it's more boring.
                      1. Humpty
                        Humpty 14 January 2021 12: 58
                        0
                        Quote: sniperino
                        Isn't this the specificity of the historical confrontation between Westernizers and Slavophiles? It is still relevant.

                        Everything is confused there. And because of the years ago, to declare something confidently, we need strong arguments. I met words of clearly Russian origin where it would seem they have nowhere to come from.
    2. Bolt cutter
      Bolt cutter 13 January 2021 13: 49
      -4
      those who have not seen food before, even had good reviews
      Rest there is even nothing, beautiful mountains, historical places, everything is very authentic. Food (seen and more than once yes ) is simply excellent. The wine is no worse than French (the wife herself admitted). And all this is cheap (with English money). Everyone is very adequate and welcoming. Please don't bend it. Yes, when they put an entrance stamp at the airport, they give a bottle of wine and a sim card. In a word, tourism is good for them. After the covidla, we will still go.
      1. Humpty
        Humpty 13 January 2021 14: 05
        +3
        Quote: Bolt Cutter
        The food (seen more than once) is just excellent. The wine is no worse than French (the wife herself admitted). And all this is cheap (with English money). Everyone is very adequate and welcoming.

        Is there anything worse in Aosta? So for example. Oh yes, there are mountains, there are 2-3 mountains in Georgia where the eye catches, so in the vicinity of Aosta the mountains will be more beautiful. And at least arrange jumps into it. Clients are not killed by guides, collective farmers are not robbed. And people can open a store for you, and go away on business.
        But in Argentina, in Patagonia, in my opinion, it is more interesting. I haven't been there, but I want to.
        Recommend.
        1. Bolt cutter
          Bolt cutter 13 January 2021 14: 12
          -5
          I haven't been there, but I want to.
          Iceland. I was and I want to. I thought about moving there for a year or two, but my wife flatly refused. In Georgia, everything is unique, old, you can feel the spirit of the times both in the goods at flea markets and in cars - on the street there is just an auto museum. A very unusual cuisine. And everything is very cheap, you just stop counting their candy wrappers. But this is all good, if in 10 days you will be at home in London - I would not live there.
          1. Humpty
            Humpty 13 January 2021 14: 19
            +3
            Quote: Bolt Cutter
            Iceland. I was and I want to.

            And you have a taste!
            Gilgit-Baltistan, Hunza are my weaknesses. Was and always want to. But without a wife, of course.
            1. Bolt cutter
              Bolt cutter 13 January 2021 14: 29
              -4
              Gilgit-Baltistan, Hunza
              It's easier for me to go to Bradford wassat ... Only Europe! The Azores are nice, but there is a little depressingly. Slovenia is beautiful, but too boring.
              1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 13 January 2021 21: 25
                +2
                Quote: Bolt Cutter
                Slovenia is beautiful, but too boring.

                and I didn't like the wine there, to be honest) Even worse than the Swiss reuschling)
                1. Bolt cutter
                  Bolt cutter 13 January 2021 21: 29
                  0
                  Union beer is a masterpiece of brewing. I have never drunk such a lager in the Czech Republic or in ... Nowhere. You can forgive wine for this masterpiece. Loo-bla-nah ale (a dragon that) is also very nothing.
                  1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                    Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 13 January 2021 21: 33
                    +1
                    HZ, beer is a drink of mood) The most delicious, I remember, was in Spielberg, at a Rolling concert)))) In the seventeenth year ...
                    1. Bolt cutter
                      Bolt cutter 13 January 2021 21: 41
                      0
                      I have beer and strong. I don’t recognize wine at all. In Budapest, we went to the fair (Christmas) and tried a little palinka yes ... Then only remember Jack Daniels from the throat and the hotel. Autopilot is no worse than GLONASS. wassat
                      1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                        Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 13 January 2021 21: 45
                        +1
                        Well, it's to each his own)
        2. paul3390
          paul3390 13 January 2021 18: 39
          +4
          But in Argentina, in Patagonia, in my opinion, it's more interesting

          All my life I dreamed of going to Kamchatka ... And in general - the citizens of Russia will not have enough life to have time to see their most beautiful huge country, why the hell is it also about strangers?
          1. Humpty
            Humpty 13 January 2021 19: 07
            +1
            Quote: paul3390
            All my life I dreamed of going to Kamchatka ... And in general - the citizens of Russia will not have enough life to have time to see their most beautiful huge country, why the hell is it also about strangers?

            What is so expensive to go to Kamchatka? I also want to see. And outside of Russia there are too many interesting places, which do not happen in Russia, to see something is a natural desire.
          2. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
            Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 13 January 2021 19: 37
            -3
            Quote: paul3390
            to hell with strangers too?

            Yes, this thesis, with its obvious stupidity, is downright baffling.
            1. paul3390
              paul3390 13 January 2021 21: 03
              0
              Well - then stay there. Apparently - you are more accustomed to a dead end. Come on - did mom often put them in a corner in childhood? Or already a wife in more mature years?
              1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 13 January 2021 21: 22
                0
                Well, given the geography of my trips at least in the last 10 years, my dead end is clearly no match for yours) Give me a minus for the fact that I ate a steak from the famous Paraguayan beef in Paraguay) Do you know where it is?
                1. paul3390
                  paul3390 13 January 2021 21: 37
                  +2
                  Well - can you give me a favorite minus for the fact that I ate bear meat near Yakutsk .. Have you ever heard of such a thing? laughing Fresh omul - on Baikal, and red caviar - in Magadan .. tongue
                  1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                    Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 13 January 2021 21: 40
                    +1
                    Well, I just have to envy you humanly. But, mind you, I am not bringing here either your wife or mother. Unlike you. hi
          3. Bolt cutter
            Bolt cutter 13 January 2021 21: 32
            0
            Russian citizens will not have enough life
            And my wife and I need a visa to Russia - we are not Uzbeks wassat
        3. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
          Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 13 January 2021 21: 29
          0
          Quote: Humpty
          But in Argentina, in Patagonia, in my opinion, it is more interesting.

          LA is generally a treasure. Argentine scammers, I remember, wanted to cut the money in an easy way. The cop stopped and merged, a fat aunt came up and began to demand money - "ecological tax" (I had Brazilian numbers). Sent, of course. In Asuncion, gopniks wanted to open the car in front of my eyes) But I like LA.
      2. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
        Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 13 January 2021 17: 29
        -3
        Quote: Bolt Cutter
        Rest there is even nothing

        It would be interesting to know the motives of the two fools who put minuses on your personal impressions of visiting Georgia as a tourist) They were not satisfied with your positive tone that falls out of the general chorus?
        1. Bolt cutter
          Bolt cutter 13 January 2021 17: 34
          +1
          motives of two boobies,
          I even have one personal one - I went through the list and minus all available comments once. And almost always, some black cloak does this. Probably class hatred is in it (them) laughing Or maybe he is driving "traitors" (I am a citizen of a NATO country). In any case, unsuccessfully.
          1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
            Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 13 January 2021 19: 22
            +2
            Oh, okay. They are awake. Well done)
            1. Bolt cutter
              Bolt cutter 13 January 2021 19: 35
              0
              By the way, somewhere here is a devil. Just checked in laughing Minus Anonymous, are you still offended by my homophobic, intolerant statements from last year? tongue
  13. Daniil Konovalenko
    Daniil Konovalenko 13 January 2021 12: 54
    0
    Shirokorad has a book on this topic ..
  14. tatra
    tatra 13 January 2021 13: 04
    +4
    How the enemies of the communists who have seized the republics of the USSR adore making themselves victims. Their "compassionate" ideology after the seizure of the republics of the USSR "we are so innocently repressed, deported for nothing, starved, occupied".
    1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 13 January 2021 14: 32
      -3
      Do you, friends of the Communists, have a recipe for building an effective model of a multinational communal apartment?
      1. tatra
        tatra 13 January 2021 15: 53
        -2
        Ha, that's how we built it. Soviet communists and their supporters in the republics of the USSR coexisted calmly and peacefully, they are enemies of the communists, both under the USSR and after their seizure of the USSR, they instilled and are instilling anger and hatred both against communists and their supporters, and against each other. And, as always, the response of the enemies of the communists to the comment about THEM is to "shift the arrows" to the communists and me.
        1. Humpty
          Humpty 13 January 2021 16: 55
          +3
          Quote: tatra
          Ha, that's how we built it. Soviet communists and their supporters in the republics of the USSR coexisted calmly and peacefully, they are enemies of the communists, both under the USSR and after their seizure of the USSR, they instilled and are instilling anger and hatred both against communists and their supporters, and against each other. And, as always, the response of the enemies of the communists to the comment about THEM is to "shift the arrows" to the communists and me.

          Not against you personally. As a friend of the Communists, I ask you very much to clarify the following question for me. My grandfather is Russian, was a member of the Communist Party and at one time worked as a bank manager. The first secretary of the local district committee, also acc. a communist, but a Kyrgyz, tried to bring my grandfather under the enemy of the people because he systematically and unsuccessfully demanded to put a part of the bank's cash in his cap. He lagged behind his grandfather only when he moved higher along the party line. My grandfather did not say anything to me for the ideas of Marx and Lenin.
          Was anyone in my short story a communist?
        2. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
          Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 13 January 2021 17: 01
          +4
          Quote: tatra
          "transfer of arrows" to the communists and me.

          Madam, any question posed to you for some reason causes a strange hysterical reaction in you. Calm down, please. What "arrows" are we talking about? I asked a very simple question.
          Quote: tatra
          Ha, that's how we built

          Wait a minute - what "you" built (I am not aware of the extent of your personal involvement), Terry Martin, a Harvard professor, described this way: the empire put the center at the service of the outskirts, as a result of which the Russians became an "inconvenient nation." This professor (far from being a Russophile, by the way) refutes the myth about an oppressor Russia exaggerated by the limitrophes)
          “You” have built an unviable federal model with a donor in the center and insolent recipients on the periphery.
          1. tatra
            tatra 13 January 2021 17: 28
            -3
            Firstly, the enemies of the communists need to learn how to conduct discussions, and if they write about YOU, they should not cowardly "switch the arrows" to others. Secondly, the communists created the BETTER State of the USSR for Russia and the Russian people than the Russian Empire was, and your Russian Federation has become, in which the enemies of the communists made Russians people not even of the second, but of the third grade - after the Jews and Muslims, for 30 years they inspire the Russian people that he has nothing to be proud of in his history, but only need to "repent", destroy everything Russian, and inculcate foreignism.
            1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
              Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 13 January 2021 17: 35
              +1
              Quote: tatra
              First, the enemies of the communists need to learn to conduct discussions

              laughing Discussion with you is basically impossible) You impose your passionate tone, not realizing that your opponent is not at all in the same degree of exaltation as you. Well, nevertheless:

              )) hi
  15. Petr Vladimirovich
    Petr Vladimirovich 13 January 2021 16: 38
    +2
    Was in 1969. He lived in Tbilisi in the 5th town with a view of Saburtalo. A little below the microdistrict is lake Lisi. The city was postponed for life, Rustaveli, Plekhanov ... Church, castle, funicular. Mtskheta, Ttskhneta, strawberries on the side of the highway towards Bukuriani. I have visited many places, but I will never forget it ... fellow
  16. No name B
    No name B 13 January 2021 17: 31
    0
    A friend of Georgia in the 80s told:
    You go on a tram, if you want to get off, you give 5 kopecks and the tram stops anywhere, drove in a crowd, a car was driving behind and took everyone in turn, for a long time they could not believe. The postman did not receive his salary, the head of the post took it instead, the tenants once a month put 3 rubles in each box, this was the salary of the postman, in the department store he once wanted to buy a blue three-piece suit, the seller, an old Georgian, picked everything up for him by size, there was no choice on the hangers, but I took 50 rubles from above ...
  17. Voltsky
    Voltsky 13 January 2021 18: 28
    +4
    good to post this nonsense, it was all ... And the Bolsheviks both there and in Armenia hummed normally, and Lenin gave Ataturk the mound where “Noy left his boat” from the Armenians; it was all. The question is how bad, but this is the tenth thing.

    But this is all in the past, and as the Chinese said "you cannot go forward looking back." So, it is necessary to build the norms of the relationship, despite not past grievances, it is not necessary ... well, as they say, "if you don't want to, do it as you want; but if you want, do it"
  18. Xenofont
    Xenofont 13 January 2021 20: 39
    +4
    In a very strange way, the author describes some moments in the history of relations between Russia and the Georgian tsars. All 3 campaigns of the Russian governors in the 16th -17th centuries were accompanied by open betrayal of the Georgians, who promised help with troops and food. The campaigns of Khvorostinin and Buturlin ended in a terrible tragedy due to yet another betrayal: in the first, up to 6 thousand archers died, in the second, up to 3 tons. And there was no Shevkal either, but there was Shamkhal Tarkovsky. This is a title, not a name. Owner of shamkhalism, such as a prince or bek, shah or sultan. In general, poor knowledge of the material, an early ripening article!
  19. Andrey Krasnoyarsky
    Andrey Krasnoyarsky 14 January 2021 13: 28
    +1
    The Russians oppressed the Georgians so terribly that they put a Georgian as the actual dictator of their country, and also insidiously appointed Georgians to other top government posts. The oppressed Eduard Shevardnadze was the USSR Foreign Minister.
  20. svoit
    svoit 15 January 2021 13: 01
    +1
    Quote: Kot_Kuzya
    And I bought these goods from Georgians at artificially inflated prices

    And why are they now buying tangerines from the Abkhaz at one and a half or two times more?
  21. Azimuth
    Azimuth 24 February 2021 20: 05
    0
    In fact, we saved the Christian peoples of Transcaucasia, both Georgians and Armenians, and in return only ingratitude.
    Here, remembering the hackneyed proverb, as if it was worth finishing off, not saving.

    To be continued, I think the author will write in the next parts, how Turkish memluks from Georgians fought with us.
  22. Armen Sologyan
    Armen Sologyan 26 March 2021 21: 12
    0
    In my opinion, there is nothing worse than American or British occupation on planet Earth. Well, there was also the occupation in the years 1941-1945. But, if you were occupied by the Russians, then you are very lucky, you will ride like cheese in butter!