Military Review

In the Chinese edition: Russian Su-57 has no place at the level of fifth generation fighters

165

An article was published in the Chinese edition of Sina in which not at all flattering words were expressed about the Russian fifth generation fighter. It should be noted that this is far from the first time that journalists in a country where the lion's share of the Air Force flies on Russian-made engines and aircraft built in Russia criticize the aircraft of the Russian Aerospace Forces.


So, the author of the material states that he "carefully studied the photographs that were previously published from the Su-57 assembly shops", and came to the conclusion that "in Russia they continue to be based on the design ideas of the Su-27 fighter."

The author writes that in Russia the Su-57 fighter is called a new generation aircraft, and adds that "in fact, this is just another modernization of the Su-27."

From the material:

In comparison with the advanced world level of new generation fighters (and the author, apparently, includes the Chinese J-20, note "VO" to this level), the Russian Su-57 is clearly inferior. It simply has no place at the level of 5th generation fighters.

It should be noted that according to the Chinese classification, the 5th generation of fighters is called the 4th.

Further, the author finds a portion of criticism for the Su-27 fighter, on the basis of which the Su-57 is supposedly created in Russia (according to the author's version of Sina). Sina's pages state literally the following:

It is known that the design of the Su-27 fuselage is weak.

It would be interesting to know who "knows" this, and why, then, the main part of the PLA Air Force's fighter fleet consists of aircraft that are directly related to the design of the Su-27? Are the Chinese military and designers so poor at understanding aircraft? Worse than the author in the mentioned edition ...

The author also claims that "based on the analysis of the photographs" he concluded that the air intakes of the Su-57 fighter "were created on the basis of the design of fighters of previous generations."

From the material:

The use of aluminum alloy for cladding the air intake gives rise to the fact that there is a huge technological gap between the Russian fighter and the fighters of the United States and China. This gap is a whole generation of combat aircraft.

The author writes that after the collapse of the USSR, scientific work on the creation of carbon fiber samples practically ceased to be carried out in Russia. It's hard to argue here. But here is the conclusion of the author ...

From the article:

While the United States and China can create advanced air intakes using composite materials, Russia can only envy. There is a similar situation with avionics and AFAR.

The author writes that Russia has to import critical components from China.

Strange, but for some reason the author of this material in the Chinese press does not have any questions why, given the availability of "advanced technologies" from China and the United States, these countries continue to import, for example, Russian aviation and rocket engines ...
165 comments
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  1. The comment was deleted.
    1. kit88
      kit88 11 January 2021 07: 55
      +33
      Slap the "author" on the pope. And send to school. The vacation is over.
      1. Insurgent
        Insurgent 11 January 2021 08: 28
        +32
        In the Chinese edition: Russian Su-57 has no place at the level of fifth generation fighters

        Yes, such an assessment of someone else's aircraft looks very "weighty" by experts from a country that itself buys engines for its fighters.
        Moreover, what is typical, their own engines corresponding to "5th generation engine requirements"they do not have and are not expected in the near future.
        More precisely, those from their own design and production, which they call " 5th generation aircraft engine "- categorically do not meet the requirements (very conditional, it should be noted) that apply to this kind of engines.

        And against the backdrop of all this, the PRC is stubbornly trying to break through the wall of persistence of the Russian side, which categorically insists on linking the sale of engines to China with the supply of Su-35 fighters. repeat .

        The Chinese need engines to equip equipment with them own production and development, and these Russians laughing ...
        1. 3danimal
          3danimal 11 January 2021 09: 15
          +1
          The Chinese man is certainly wrong.
          They buy engines. But! They can also reproach us that all military electronics are assembled from Chinese components, Russia has lost the ability to independently produce the element base .. request
          1. hydrox
            hydrox 11 January 2021 10: 04
            +26
            The Chinese can also reproach us for the fact that Russia has banned the supply of round timber to the Chinese - this is also a resource basis for the production of furniture, like the nails used in construction, but we are not obliged to explain to anyone that we buy self-tapping screws from the Chinese not because they are stealthy (we ourselves can produce them!), but ONLY because they are CHEAPER than ours. Because only the last dolbak will fight for the production of a smartphone at the price of 10 sput, when anyone needs it, they will overwhelm us with these smartphones for 300 rubles. in exchange for 2-3 dozen T-72s from bases
            storage!
            We can't afford to fill the production capacity with penny products with meager added value - that's why we do what millions pay us for! Is that why we have now reduced gas supplies to the Chinese?
            Yes, because in Tobolsk, millions of tonnes of polymer production have been launched, which are bought from us in turn - therefore, the Chinese are strained with gas - they will have to buy more expensive LPG from us.
            But the engines that they buy from us, they themselves have not been able to make for 30 years and will not be able to do it for another 20 years to make 41 engines, or 30 years to make at least something similar to a product 30 for the Su-57 - therefore and they will take them from us at the price that we will assign them.
            Now it is clear why we do not need to make penny 155 series microcircuits and sell them in barrels in foreign markets, but we need to make S-500 products in order to sell them not for currency, but for influence?
            1. paul3390
              paul3390 11 January 2021 16: 26
              +11
              Now it is clear why we do not need to make penny 155 series microcircuits and sell them in barrels in foreign markets, but we need to make S-500 products in order to sell them not for currency, but for influence?

              No. Comrade Stalin did not say in vain - you must have your own! Everything that we consume - we must strive to do it ourselves, up to the penny mikruh. Otherwise, we can be bent over at any moment on some little things. Only true autarchy can ensure the country's survival. And only socialism can provide effective autarky ..
              1. 3danimal
                3danimal 11 January 2021 17: 25
                -15%
                This is a joke?
                I propose to live a little (or as "lucky") in North Korea. Country of victorious Stalinism. Juche ideas, relying only on yourself!
                But for some reason people run FROM THERE, but not back ...
                1. paul3390
                  paul3390 11 January 2021 18: 20
                  +23
                  An amazingly stupid way to compare everything with the DPRK .. A tiny country, completely deprived of any fossils and with a scanty amount of arable land .. At the same time, it has been under severe sanctions for 70 years and can neither sell its products, nor buy anything necessary .. Put even the United States in such conditions - in a year the fins will stick together .. And the DPRK - lives and makes a nuclear bomb with missiles. And only that ... winged liberalist can assume that this is possible in a wild backward country ..
                  1. 3danimal
                    3danimal 11 January 2021 20: 06
                    -14%
                    USA fins will not glue, too big. And the Union would not have glued it together, but late began to reform the economy.
                    And the DPRK lives and makes a nuclear bomb with missiles

                    As one of the leaders of Pakistan said: if necessary, the whole country will eat only bread, but we will make a bomb. There was something similar in the union (remember the famine of the late 40s).
                    This is by no means an indicator of the success of an economic or political model.
                    In addition, neighbors helped North Korea.
                    And only that ... winged liberalist can assume that this is possible in a wild backward country ..

                    There is something to compare, next to the South, which is richer even than us. Which has gone through a lot, but as a result has a modern social and economic structure.
                    Hanging up labels is a sign of ... narrow-mindedness. And when there are doubts about the validity of the arguments. Or simply imparted rudeness request
                    Want to measure who has the longer IQ? laughing
            2. 3danimal
              3danimal 11 January 2021 17: 27
              -4
              Is that why we have now reduced gas supplies to the Chinese?

              Because the exploration of the reserves of the fields tied to the Power of Siberia turned out to be incorrect and greatly exaggerated the reserves?
              1. hydrox
                hydrox 12 January 2021 13: 20
                0
                The reserves, explored 50 years ago, could not take into account our current NATIONAL interest - the supply of raw materials to the Tobolsk petrochemical complex (this issue has not been taken into account for 30 years already, since ALL OF THEY are Russian only by passport), but in fact the occupation administration in the form of 5 and 6 columns and its national interest is in no way Russian.
                1. 3danimal
                  3danimal 12 January 2021 15: 50
                  +1
                  form 5 and 6 columns

                  Remind me, this terminology is taken from whose work? request
                  Are you fond of conspiracy theories?
                  Reserves explored 50 years ago

                  The fresh Chayandinskoye field is tied to the Power of Siberia. Take some time and study the topic.
                  https://m.gazeta.ru/amp/business/2020/05/28/13099087.shtml
                  1. hydrox
                    hydrox 12 January 2021 16: 28
                    +1
                    Liberal freshness?
                    This is something new: All Siberia was in its TIME explored up and down for the content of hydrocarbons by the guys from the Institute of Geology and Geophysics of the Siberian Branch of the USSR Academy of Sciences, so don't stick around, your merits are not here :: everyone who deserved it has been a long time ago, even in Soviet times, they became Heroes, laureates, and doctors with academicians.
                    And to delineate the deposit is a technical matter, but the liberoids did not show themselves in this either - it is difficult, cold and biting mosquitoes, but what a fishing! laughing
                    1. 3danimal
                      3danimal 12 January 2021 17: 05
                      -1
                      Who did they write it for? Did someone hurt you ?? What does it have to do with me ??
                      I propose to present my thoughts to the management of Gazprom request
                      Have you mastered the article?
            3. the most important
              the most important 12 January 2021 00: 05
              +2
              Quote: hydrox
              Now it is clear why we do not need to make penny 155 series microcircuits and sell them in barrels in foreign markets, but we need to make S-500 products in order to sell them not for currency, but for influence?

              Better to be able to do everything yourself and do it yourself. Otherwise, we will not be able to assemble the S-500 because of some kind of penny "nut".
              1. hydrox
                hydrox 12 January 2021 03: 53
                -1
                If you do everything yourself, then not one nut will be enough, but tens of thousands.
                After all, it is impossible with limited funding, insufficient resource base and a shortage of manpower to do EVERYTHING that is necessary to assemble the S-500. And if there is enough for the S-500, then there will not be enough working hands for a frigate, but enough for a frigate - it means that a computer processor will not be made.
                Are you offering us such autarchy?
                And do you think that this is normal if Tajiks build houses for us, Chinese grow tomatoes, Vietnamese make consumer goods, and skakuas are renovated apartments? But this also means that not only autarky, but simply the usual planned normal life of the population, the country is NOT IN CONDITION to organize.
                1. Torins
                  Torins 12 January 2021 12: 46
                  +1
                  Deuce to you in economics)
                  1. hydrox
                    hydrox 12 January 2021 13: 24
                    +2
                    Will you donate a fresh handkerchief or will you continue blowing your nose at the newspaper? laughing
                    That is why we live in poverty, that the liberoid svlch continues to run the economy.
            4. JD1979
              JD1979 12 January 2021 12: 26
              +1
              Quote: hydrox
              But the engines that they buy from us, they themselves have not been able to make for 30 years and will not be able to do it for another 20 years to make 41 engines, or 30 years to make at least something similar to a product 30 for the Su-57 - therefore and they will take them from us at the price that we will assign them.
              Now it is clear why we do not need to make penny 155 series microcircuits and sell them in barrels in foreign markets, but we need to make S-500 products in order to sell them not for currency, but for influence?

              This game can be played together, you are our strategist. If you cannot make penny schemes, and suddenly it turns out that this little thing is vitally necessary for you in some way, then you will change the penny from the Chinese to your S-500)) in a ratio of 1: 1))). So blow your show off a little. China in some areas confidently holds the Russians by the bells, and at any time that it considers convenient, it can pull them on)) And all thanks to your government's concern for your well-being)))
              1. hydrox
                hydrox 12 January 2021 13: 32
                -3
                Your education, liberal, has not risen much above your pot of turnip, but the Chinese will not miss the moment and will have time to blow it to you, when I will be blown away - then you will learn ALL the delights of partnership with China.
                And smart people say: "No, only trade relations with the Chinese!" and I agree with these people, but do not look around, they are not found in your environment - the water is painfully rotten.
                1. JD1979
                  JD1979 14 January 2021 11: 07
                  -1
                  Quote: hydrox
                  Your education, liberal, has not risen much above your pot of turnip

                  Well, of course, you can see better from your pot))
                  Quote: hydrox
                  And smart people say: "No, only trade relations with the Chinese!"

                  Did smart people tell you how Chinese business partners do their business? ))) Well, ask around, you will find out a lot of unexpected things for yourself))
                  Quote: hydrox
                  they are not found in your environment - the water is painfully rotten.

                  disperse the mud)) you may see someone around you, otherwise you only see "liberasts" in the darkness)))
                  PS: In China, the market and capitalism (albeit under the strict control of the state) and in Russia, the market and capitalism (mainly under reverse control))) and now tell me whether Chinese companies will use the Russian market for their benefit, which they occupied at 85- 90% using non-market methods as well? ))) or do you think that they are saints?))) Will be. And they use it. And you will not do anything with them, since even progress is not being made in this direction))) This is not for you to build a farm with cows or to dig a quarry, these are technologies))) that no one will sell you)) and you have missed yours the collapse of the USSR. And it is difficult to restore them, it is easier for microelectronics to start producing on the 7nm process technology)) and cheaper, moreover)) Guess the "smart" you are ours about what I mean? or will you continue wearing pink glasses?
                  1. hydrox
                    hydrox 14 January 2021 14: 56
                    0
                    Quote: JD1979
                    Guess "smart" you are ours what I mean

                    You are funny, I will not even try to talk with an ignoramus with an incomplete average!
                    Well, how do I know what you are there, in the trash, are going to lure the Chinese into the impoverished Russian market?
                    1. JD1979
                      JD1979 15 January 2021 00: 11
                      0
                      Quote: hydrox
                      You are funny, I will not even try to talk with an ignoramus with an incomplete average!

                      Well, actually that's all. Iksperd merged. Your education conquers the depths of the Mariana Trench in search of the bottom.
                      Quote: hydrox
                      Well, how do I know what you are there, in the trash, are going to lure the Chinese into the impoverished Russian market?

                      I sympathize if you live in such a way that everything around seems like a garbage can. And this is how you should not respect your country, considering it a beggar. Something your iksperdny opinion is at odds with reality, when many global corporations put a bolt on sanctions and in every way are trying to get into this poverty))
                      PS: although this does not negate the fact that thanks to the "skillful" leadership of the permanent and Co, we can say about some industries - RIP.
            5. Torins
              Torins 12 January 2021 12: 45
              0
              But what about job creation in your own country?
              1. hydrox
                hydrox 12 January 2021 16: 41
                0
                And who promised 25 million high-tech slaves. places?
                So this question is for the President, this is his competence and his headache, although it seems to me that this idea was blown into his ears by liberoids, but you must admit that we are still slowly learning to observe the national interest and the corrupt liberoids are quietly taking their places in the camp barracks, which means that the less they steal, the more funds remain for the maintenance and development of the national economy.
                We just have to wait until the cheese-processing and raw-extraction enterprises-snacks stolen from us become either national-capitalist or state-capitalist
          2. Interlocutor
            Interlocutor 11 January 2021 10: 32
            +14
            Russia has lost the ability to independently produce the element base .. request


            1. Vladimir Mashkov
              Vladimir Mashkov 11 January 2021 11: 38
              +4
              NOTHING surprising! Xsperds are different! There are others like this "advanced" (or shifted?) Chinese! laughing laughing laughing
          3. Artunis
            Artunis 11 January 2021 11: 52
            +9
            Well, that's what you are misleading people without completely owning the topic. Yes, we are lagging behind, but we are building factories for its production and even now we are making this base at our enterprises, although according to not much outdated technical processes. But the military needs multiple reliability and it is on its e-base. As far as I know, only the production of displays and hard drives is critical.
          4. gurzuf
            gurzuf 11 January 2021 16: 25
            +2
            I also remember that the mattress mats on the shuttle had electronics from China. This also suggests that mattress covers "have lost the ability to independently produce element base ..?
            1. hydrox
              hydrox 12 January 2021 13: 47
              0
              No one is interested in who will make processors and millions of gadgets and wickles, it is important that everything that is done WAS on sale and without any sanctions and conditions, and we ourselves will put the necessary bookmarks in those blocks that the curious are not supposed to look into ...
            2. Torins
              Torins 13 January 2021 12: 31
              0
              Mattress covers have opened their electronics production in China, what kind of electronics production has Russia opened in China?
          5. alexmach
            alexmach 12 January 2021 14: 35
            0
            They buy engines. But! They can also reproach us that all military electronics are assembled from Chinese components, Russia has lost the ability to independently produce the element base.

            So they blamed it, right in that article.
        2. zenion
          zenion 12 January 2021 17: 25
          -4
          The Chinese are of course right. But the Chinese elastic band for panties is much weaker than the Russian one. But all the aircraft of the fifth, sixth and thumb generations fly on rubber motors in order to be invisible. There are more Chinese and their engines are stronger. The driver of the engine of the engine lies at the feet of the Chinese pilot and constantly tightens the rubber band of the aircraft engine.
      2. Doccor18
        Doccor18 11 January 2021 09: 11
        +3
        There is nothing amazing that this would-be specialist wrote. And we have enough such "specialists" in the media ..
        Another surprise is that not only on this, but also on other Chinese resources, similar materials appear that artificially tarnish all of ours. This is something worth thinking about ...
        1. hydrox
          hydrox 11 January 2021 10: 09
          +3
          We need to think about something else: after all, what this Chinese wrote is a denigration of our achievements, so to prohibit its publication in our media and even an attempt to get into the Russian Federation is regarded as a set of materials for subsequent denigration, i.e. libel construction.
          He cheated on us in the media - give a justification, too, from the media that the data is reliable - so a dozen of such publications - and there is no slander!
          1. Doccor18
            Doccor18 11 January 2021 10: 22
            +3
            ... what this Chinese man wrote is a denigration of our achievements ..

            And this is done with the permission of the local authorities. It's no secret that there is serious moderation in the Chinese media about "correct and incorrect" publications ...
            And about "prohibit", so it is doubtful. After all, Russia and China are brothers forever ... winked
            1. hydrox
              hydrox 11 January 2021 13: 37
              0
              Brothers forever, you say?
              Here, after all, how to look: although our regime is authoritarian, but completely not communist (by the way, as in China) lol
              So fellow travelers and partly partners - yes, but allies are unlikely: there are too many diverse private opinions on individual issues to never hug.
              So the "blackening" between the brothers ... I would like to see such a "brotherhood" without going into details requestand without acting as a referee
              1. Doccor18
                Doccor18 11 January 2021 14: 25
                0
                Brothers forever, you say?

                It's sarcasm...
      3. dauria
        dauria 11 January 2021 09: 31
        +6
        Slap the "author" on the pope. And send to school.


        For what ? You were indignant, wrote .. Me too ... A few dozen more will be indignant, write .. Everyone is happy.
        "Attendance, academic performance. And praise for that." And they get paid. It is not for us to determine the editorial policy of the site. If a video of a farting cat brings in more money than a boring description of the power steering, then the site will have cats and a little bit about hydraulics.
      4. Alien From
        Alien From 11 January 2021 20: 50
        0
        I agree with you! As soon as something went wrong with the Chinese, they began to look for the guilty ones ...
      5. d1975
        d1975 11 January 2021 22: 37
        0
        Yes, almost the whole country needs it then! Country copier whatever you want. Money to our bureaucrats completely clouded their minds. Live with wolves, howl like a wolf! It's time for our snot to silently blow your nose and do what you should. Diplomatic but not preoccupied. hi
    2. novel66
      novel66 11 January 2021 08: 23
      +2
      problematic, without a stool lol
    3. abrakadabre
      abrakadabre 11 January 2021 09: 10
      +2
      The author also states that “based on the analysis of the photographs,” he concluded
      What special, however, came to the conclusion looking at the photos
      This is called guessing from a photograph.
      1. alexmach
        alexmach 12 January 2021 14: 41
        0
        This is called guessing from a photograph.

        Analysis of a photo from production is not a guess. Why make such photos public, I don't really understand.
    4. yuriy55
      yuriy55 11 January 2021 09: 18
      +3
      Quote: Sayan
      I’m looking at his photo, too, I can conclude that he was born by his mother standing, from intercourse with a macaque.

      Quote: kit88
      Slap the "author" on the pope. And send to school. The vacation is over.

      The author also states that “based on the analysis of the photographs” he concluded that

      I'll try to consider in a humorous way:

      wassat
    5. Lipchanin
      Lipchanin 11 January 2021 09: 33
      +2
      Quote: Sayan
      came to the conclusion looking at the photos)))

      Just amazing
      Use for aluminum alloy air inlet cladding

      Here's how to determine from the photo what the part is made of? request
      This can only be done in China, others cannot laughing
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 11 January 2021 10: 29
        +1
        "Here's how to determine from the photo what the part is made of" ///
        ----
        If the rivets are aluminum.
        1. Lipchanin
          Lipchanin 11 January 2021 10: 34
          +1
          Quote: voyaka uh
          If the rivets are aluminum.

          Aaaaaa, I see. The hardest part.
          And aluminum has many alloys.
          Use for covering the air intake aluminum alloy gives a reason to talk about that there is a huge technological gap between the Russian fighter and the US and Chinese fighters. This gap is a whole generation of combat aircraft.
          1. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh 11 January 2021 10: 41
            +1
            Carbon is immediately noticeable and different from any alloy.
            These are the pictures. They are not classified. From the Russian media.
            Direct metal air intake and duct are visible.
            1. MMX
              MMX 11 January 2021 19: 05
              -8
              Su-57 is an imitation of the 5th generation aircraft. Alas.
              1. voyaka uh
                voyaka uh 11 January 2021 19: 36
                +3
                The shapes of the fuselage, wings, keels were made strictly according to
                stealth laws.
                But there are many small things that spoil the picture,
                flashing the plane:
                1) air intakes without "letter S".
                The turbine blades are visible from the front.
                2) The optical station in front of the round-shaped cockpit, and not in
                faceted case.
                3) Outer cover of the cab cover.
                4) The slats are inaccurately executed.
                Everything, in principle, can be solved: you can improve or eliminate each flaw.
                1. MMX
                  MMX 11 January 2021 19: 46
                  0
                  Yes, the fact of the matter is that the forms of fuselage. When I see these rivets, I don't know whether to cry or laugh ... I don't even say anything about the filling.
                  1. voyaka uh
                    voyaka uh 11 January 2021 19: 51
                    +2
                    With carbon, the assembly job is completely different.
                    We need other assembly methods, very accurate.
                    And the part tolerances are almost zero.
                    In Israel, they make wings for the F-35. Wing width
                    several meters tolerance - 1 mm. They did not master it immediately.
                2. 3danimal
                  3danimal 13 January 2021 09: 31
                  +1
                  1) The air intakes open the blades partially, similar to the Super Hornet solution. I guess this was done to maximize the weapons bay.
                  3) Flashlight .. There is NOT a single Soviet / Russian fighter with a solid flashlight. Some kind of technological limitations, I think.
                  Well, Poghosyan "with a stroke of the pen" and in his statements equalized the stealth rates of the Su-57 and F-35 ("F-22, so be it, they are a little better").
                  And if this is so, then why try to further reduce the ESR? But cheaper ..
  2. V1er
    V1er 11 January 2021 07: 04
    +18
    So, the author of the material states that he "carefully studied the photographs that were previously published from the Su-57 assembly shops", and came to the conclusion that "in Russia they continue to be based on the design ideas of the Su-27 fighter."
    The author writes that in Russia the Su-57 fighter is called a new generation aircraft, and adds that "in fact, this is just another modernization of the Su-27."


    The picture shows their vaunted j-20 and MIG-1.44 - the beginning of development 1979, the first flight in 2000. In general, the entire aircraft building school of the PRC is based on the school and technologies of the USSR. They did not have access to Western technologies (at least before). This is clearly confirmed by their Xian H-6 bombers - they are copies of the ancient TU-16 (albeit modernized), and the J-15 carrier-based aircraft are copies of the SU-33. And for 30 years, after the collapse of the USSR, nothing new was invented to replace (I do not take as an example projects and sketches, which are just a few or none at all).
  3. lwxx
    lwxx 11 January 2021 07: 06
    +33
    Damn, not a Military Review, but a yellow press review site. Interesting pun turned out - yellow press laughing
    1. Alexander Galaktionov
      Alexander Galaktionov 11 January 2021 07: 14
      +6
      This Chinese edition of Sina can be attributed to the yellow press
    2. Mykhalych
      Mykhalych 11 January 2021 07: 36
      +2
      Quote: lwxx
      Damn, not a Military Review, but a yellow press review site. Interesting pun turned out - yellow press

      Everything is taken from here: https://inosmi.ru/inoblog/20210111/248855971.html Photos of the fuselage frame of the Su-57 fighter: the backwardness of materials and technologies reduce the level of aircraft design! (Sina, China)
    3. Insurgent
      Insurgent 11 January 2021 08: 32
      +1
      Quote: lwxx
      Damn, not a Military Review, but a yellow press review site.

      So what to do ? request China is developing rapidly, both economically and militarily, and ignoring information from the Middle Kingdom is stupid as a minimum.
      1. Sling cutter
        Sling cutter 11 January 2021 09: 06
        +1
        Quote: Insurgent
        What is there to do ? China is developing rapidly, both economically and militarily, and ignoring information from the Middle Kingdom is stupid as a minimum.

        I absolutely support you! Now the cap throwers will humidly shout and shout, what, they say, "teapots" are dark and dense, but we are not in the world, they just forget how many Su-57 we have in total and how many "fives" the Chinese have, and only about the Chinese hypersound and do not want to hear.
      2. Vasilenko Vladimir
        Vasilenko Vladimir 11 January 2021 09: 09
        +3
        Quote: Insurgent
        and ignore information from the Middle Kingdom is stupid as minim.

        but to perceive it as truth is doubly stupid, the whole history of China is 90 percent myth and notion
        1. Sling cutter
          Sling cutter 11 January 2021 18: 00
          +3
          Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

          but to perceive it as truth is doubly stupid, the whole history of China is 90 percent myth and notion

          But what about Huawei and Xiaomi, and the lunar program ... and do you have anything not Chinese at home? All that is electronic in the Russian Federation is China and even Chinese hammers and drills. RF is a myth, and China is quite the second economy in the world. Do you want to argue?
          1. Vasilenko Vladimir
            Vasilenko Vladimir 11 January 2021 18: 22
            0
            Quote: Stroporez
            Do you have anything not Chinese at home?

            what a way to poke? !!!
            be surprised but there is, by the way, what the Chinese themselves are doing is far from a fountain, especially industrial equipment
            Do not confuse factories of third countries in China and Chinese factories, their buses are pouring in after half a year of operation, equipment for the light industry and printing industry is just ...
            Quote: Stroporez
            RF is a myth

            what exactly?
            it is clear in China, but in Russia what does not suit you ?!
            Quote: Stroporez
            Do you want to argue?

            once again, specify when we drank broodershaft ?!
            1. Sling cutter
              Sling cutter 11 January 2021 18: 44
              +2
              Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
              once again, specify when we drank broodershaft ?!

              belay I can only do this with ladies repeat Actually, my associations are you, then comrade, well, God bless her with the terminology.
              In fact, in the new Russian Federation there is nothing but show-off of a friend of friends, embezzlement and zombies.
              and now about China:
              1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                Vasilenko Vladimir 11 January 2021 21: 51
                -1
                Quote: Stroporez
                In fact, there is nothing in the new RF

                Quote: Stroporez
                RF is a myth

                it's not the same thing
                1. Sling cutter
                  Sling cutter 11 January 2021 22: 05
                  +2
                  Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                  it's not the same thing

                  Why were you so demoted? sect ??? As far as I remember, you were a reinforced concrete marshal one hundred and fifty times fellow
                  1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                    Vasilenko Vladimir 11 January 2021 22: 45
                    -3
                    Quote: Stroporez
                    As far as I remember, you were one hundred and five hundred times a reinforced concrete marshal
                    what is this for?
      3. XXXIII
        XXXIII 11 January 2021 10: 06
        +3
        Quote: Insurgent
        Quote: lwxx
        Damn, not a Military Review, but a yellow press review site.

        So what to do ? request China is developing rapidly, both economically and militarily, and ignoring information from the Middle Kingdom is stupid as a minimum.

        Damn, well, not the same information to publish, well, an obvious stuffing of Ranks. Maybe even trolling, the author does not even compare airplanes, but stupidly throws it over the fan.
        1. Insurgent
          Insurgent 11 January 2021 10: 27
          +8
          Quote: XXXIII
          Damn, well, not the same information to publish, well, an obvious stuffing of Ranks.

          Well, this is no longer a question for the Chinese comrades, but for the issuing editors of VO yes

          The more the gun was loaded, the more it fired.
    4. Putnik119
      Putnik119 11 January 2021 08: 34
      +8
      I also realized that for this site the main thing is not the solidity of the source, but the size of the cloud of shit sprayed in the article in relation to Russia. The bigger and smelly the cloud, the better. And the publication can be anything, even a fictional one. Like many "experts" are always unknown and always different.
      1. alexmach
        alexmach 12 January 2021 14: 49
        0
        Still, the article contains both information and arguments. How correct the conclusions drawn in it are is a separate question.
    5. Magic archer
      Magic archer 11 January 2021 08: 44
      +4
      I noticed this long ago. One time of the day did not pass without a review of Majumbara's writings or whatever. There is journalism of the level of the walls of the newspaper wassat
    6. Sling cutter
      Sling cutter 11 January 2021 09: 08
      0
      Quote: lwxx
      Damn, not a Military Review, but a yellow press review site. Interesting pun turned out - yellow press

      If you don't like it, watch the litter-tv, it will be more interesting for you.
      1. Quadro
        Quadro 11 January 2021 13: 50
        +3
        Quote: Stroporez
        Quote: lwxx
        Damn, not a Military Review, but a yellow press review site. Interesting pun turned out - yellow press

        If you don't like it, watch the litter-tv, it will be more interesting for you.

        The podind0sny bot got out. Go shout that the Chinese drink Baikal. Your faith in the holy internet, where they will hammer any feces into your head, amuses you.
  4. NDR-791
    NDR-791 11 January 2021 07: 06
    +25
    "Based on photo analysis" ... "created on the basis of the design of fighters of previous generations."
    And really !!! I never lied. And there are wings and a tail ... and even wheels. Straight all the Su-57 from there and took ...
  5. Russian2020
    Russian2020 11 January 2021 07: 08
    +10
    Well, if su 57 is not the fifth generation, then in China everything can be considered generation 3+
  6. Alexander Galaktionov
    Alexander Galaktionov 11 January 2021 07: 11
    +3
    Another Su-35 could be attributed to the modernization of the Su-27 But here's the Su-57 fool
  7. Thrifty
    Thrifty 11 January 2021 07: 13
    +8
    Here, they helped them with technology, on their own! fool As a result, the xerox country thinks too much of itself! They live by other people's ideas, stolen developments and technologies, and still have the audacity to be too smart! What the Yankees are right about is that the main thing is that the Chinese should not be given ANY military technology, albeit outdated, otherwise we are growing near the enemy's side.
    1. Alexander Galaktionov
      Alexander Galaktionov 11 January 2021 07: 21
      +3
      Stolen developments - there are two points, 1 it speaks of development in that area of ​​stolen development and 2 it speaks of special services to extract industrial information, plus savings on development
      1. Xenofont
        Xenofont 11 January 2021 09: 13
        +4
        Unfortunately, this also speaks of the number of traitors in our Fatherland who sold everything that was possible in the 90s. However, this is still relevant today.
  8. Russian2020
    Russian2020 11 January 2021 07: 13
    +3
    Let the engines themselves develop, there is nothing to ask for a new engine of the second stage
    1. val43
      val43 11 January 2021 10: 27
      -8
      Quote: Russian2020
      Let the engines themselves develop, there is nothing to ask for a new engine of the second stage

      Do you have it?
      1. Ugochaves
        Ugochaves 11 January 2021 14: 45
        +1
        What do you have? laughing
  9. nPuBaTuP
    nPuBaTuP 11 January 2021 07: 13
    +15
    Why would this beggar's nonsense be reprinted on VO?
    1. Redfox3k
      Redfox3k 11 January 2021 09: 40
      -4
      Well, if only nonsense. But in fact, China will become a big problem for us in the foreseeable future. Starting from copying our equipment to claims for the Arctic and the Far East. It is not clear what the Chinese have in their heads.
      1. Quadro
        Quadro 11 January 2021 13: 55
        +3
        Quote: Redfox3k
        Well, if only nonsense. But in fact, China will become a big problem for us in the foreseeable future. Starting from copying our equipment to claims for the Arctic and the Far East. It is not clear what the Chinese have in their heads.

        And why do they need the Far East? Or again these myths about Chinese Baikal, Siberia and the Far East? Their empty territories are dark in the north and center, no one goes. And resources do not grow on trees at all, they must be explored and obtained. Stop pushing alarm topics already. They even have a zone of interest in Southeast Asia, not north or west.
  10. rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 11 January 2021 07: 15
    +7
    In the Chinese edition of Sina ...
    To be honest, this is already arrogance and most likely paid for. Pot calls the kettle black. A Russian proverb says: "Do not spit in the well, it will be useful to drink water"
    1. V1er
      V1er 11 January 2021 07: 16
      +1
      Quote: rotmistr60
      Don't spit in the well, you'll have to get drunk. "

      Yes, they built their village around this well, which only then was overgrown with factories and fountains) So they spit not only into the well, but also count in their relatives, grandfathers and grandmothers (USSR) who put them on their feet, washed, fed, gave technology ... Let them better remember their immediate history before the USSR, where and how they were, lived and what they knew how.
  11. sleeve
    sleeve 11 January 2021 07: 15
    +3
    Our little yellow neighbors sometimes do not stand up to the moments when all the superpower of the PRC is suddenly expressed in the number of down jackets and LED garlands (by the way, referred to the electronic component of the industry). Quite often, somewhat unsubstantiated statements began to appear, sometimes cutting the ear, like grandmother's conclusions from the shop. But there is nothing you can do about it. Envy is as much a sin as pride. Puffing up its cheeks on the western scale of the power of the state, the PRC at the same time realizes its technological backwardness in terms of precisely advanced technologies. Therefore, pure PR is used. Blackening those from whom everything is taken, self-exaltation (well, there is a complex of the Middle Kingdom, there is nothing you can do about it). Well, the background is the famous Chinese "secrecy".
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 11 January 2021 10: 35
      +9
      "when all the superpower of the PRC is suddenly expressed in the number of down jackets and LED garlands" ///
      ----
      Not only.
      In the number of rocket launches into space - China 1st place, 39 successful launches
      In the number of ships of the 1st and 2nd class launched. - China 1st place
      1. sleeve
        sleeve 11 January 2021 12: 20
        +2
        It would be strange if with such a dough, with so many hands and shipyards, it would be different. And about successful launches, fans of the Chinese astronautics have already eaten a bald spot.
      2. Dart
        Dart 11 January 2021 12: 37
        +4
        well, you can say, you don't launch anything ... except missiles in Syria wassat But still, don't put the rank next to you, let's be frank.
        1. d1975
          d1975 11 January 2021 22: 43
          0
          Well, if the darkest himself said the phrase about galoshes!)))) But in fact we are eating up the legacy of the USSR and trying something for the sake of ourselves. This will be remembered for a long time. Probably texted Medvedev))))) No money, but you hold on!))) The results are obvious.
  12. Tagan
    Tagan 11 January 2021 07: 20
    +6
    In principle, the fabrications of this freak are not much different from the works of some published local experts.
  13. Joker62
    Joker62 11 January 2021 07: 46
    +3
    Eh ... well, the special was drawn ... already from his anger I was a little embarrassed ...
    The reason is trivial - Russia refuses to issue the technology for manufacturing a new generation engine as "30" edition for the Su-57.
    Let them be angry, they, i.e. China, unlike India, is not going to pay a license for each engine in gold ... All for free, these sly_ * oops goats!
  14. K-50
    K-50 11 January 2021 07: 48
    +2
    An article was published in the Chinese edition of Sina, in which not at all flattering words were expressed to the Russian fifth generation fighter.

    They grumble from the fact that they envy! Under this case, all sorts of "sins" are invented "drying"! fellow yes
  15. migsu
    migsu 11 January 2021 08: 09
    +1
    Well, not a degenerate, then a mental hospital patient ...
  16. Ka-52
    Ka-52 11 January 2021 08: 13
    +8
    While the United States and China can create advanced air intakes using composite materials, Russia can only envy

    pathetic whistle. Obninsk Technology supplies composites for the production of the 57th. It is 70% carbon fiber on the washed surface.
  17. Vanyusha
    Vanyusha 11 January 2021 08: 16
    +2
    Most likely, the author had in mind the construction technologies of the Su 57, which have changed little since the assembly of the Su 7b. The Americans use robotics to the full, the Chinese have the opportunity to lick everything.
  18. prior
    prior 11 January 2021 08: 30
    +5
    Being determines consciousness.
    The growth of the Chinese economy has led to an explosive rise in the aplomb of Chinese nationalists.
    Soon they will start yelling - China is above all, but, excuse me, they themselves fart in public.
    1. Quadro
      Quadro 11 January 2021 13: 58
      0
      There is no need to judge China by an article from a yellow garbage dump (100% is located somewhere in Hong Kong). Dreams of superiority over all Taiwan.
      1. sgapich
        sgapich 11 January 2021 19: 04
        0
        Quote: Quadro
        There is no need to judge China by an article from a yellow garbage dump (100% is located somewhere in Hong Kong). Dreams of superiority over all Taiwan.

        All in all, you are correct. The only place they made a mistake was with the address. Sina.com headquarters in Beijing and Shanghai. The general level of the publication is like Rambler.News
  19. EvilLion
    EvilLion 11 January 2021 08: 33
    +1
    Whom do we care about the opinion of a country that has so far only managed the infamous J-20 from the 1980s?
  20. Eug
    Eug 11 January 2021 08: 36
    +7
    The air intake design has always been a strong point of the Russian fighters. The Su-27 and its "heirs" are especially good at this issue, the "contribution" of the air intakes to the super-maneuverability is considerable - ensuring the smooth operation of the engines in the entire range of angles of attack and glide. So even if the air intakes were wooden, if only they worked adequately and were maintainable (composite, as I understand it, are replaced only entirely, which is very expensive. And sometimes birds get into them, not to mention potential combat damage) ...
  21. Voltsky
    Voltsky 11 January 2021 08: 52
    +2

    and nothing to add
  22. Prisoner
    Prisoner 11 January 2021 08: 55
    0
    laughing It is not by us that impudence is the second happiness.
  23. Vasilenko Vladimir
    Vasilenko Vladimir 11 January 2021 08: 55
    -2
    how much "dry" to the Chinese, the Chinese "fifth" generation is the fifth generation in the world
  24. Sibguest
    Sibguest 11 January 2021 08: 59
    -2
    The only "expert" opinions from Chinese non-comrades, which I can still perceive as such, are only: on the reduction of the birth rate (however, they did not achieve much success here) and on smartphones (we must admit the obvious successes of the leading developers-manufacturers).
    And the rest of the "dirty" opinions: smoke in the wind - are not even worth the time to read them.
    1. Sergej1972
      Sergej1972 11 January 2021 09: 53
      +2
      With the declining birth rate, they've overdone it in 40 years. Now they are trying to increase it by lifting most of the restrictions. But not much success. The country has become urbanized, young people have different priorities. And the structure of the demographic pyramid is such that there is no need to expect a strong population growth in any scenario. In the PRC, unlike most other Asian countries, large families are not the lot of the poor, but rather the privilege of rich families. In a few years, India will come out on top in the world in terms of population, at the expense of the central and northern states. In the southern states of India, the birth rate has declined quite dramatically.
  25. AKS-U
    AKS-U 11 January 2021 09: 03
    0
    - "The author writes that after the collapse of the USSR, scientific work on the creation of carbon fiber samples has practically ceased to be carried out in Russia. It is difficult to argue here ..."
    I wonder where you can argue? Which direction?
    1. Errr
      Errr 11 January 2021 10: 00
      +8
      Russian carbon fiber is already being produced by Alabuga-Fiber LLC, and in 2021, the production of a PAN precursor (polyacrylonitrile fibers and bundles), the main raw material for the production of this very carbon fiber, will also be launched there. To argue, really, no longer makes any sense. smile
      Sources:
      https://compositescluster.ru/idustrial-enterprises/ooo-alabuga-volokno/
      https://compositescluster.ru/products/uglekompozitnye-materialy-i-izdeliya/pan-prekursor-umatex/
      1. Dart
        Dart 11 January 2021 12: 42
        +3
        When I was interested in the topic, not one huge plant was launched, but three or four across the country ... now they are already working for sure, only no one writes victorious reports for all the interrogators, and for the author, too ... people do not know!))
    2. Interlocutor
      Interlocutor 11 January 2021 10: 39
      +5
      I wonder where you can argue? Which direction?


      But you will not look anyway ...

  26. Normal
    Normal 11 January 2021 09: 03
    +1
    "The author also states that" based on the analysis of the photographs "he concluded that ..." There was simply a technical mistake. When the text of this article was handed over to the set, one of the workers of the printing house, at that moment, admired the photographs of the su-57, and so the word appeared in the text - photography. The original read: "The author also claims to be based on analysis." The conclusion was drawn simply on a banal "analysis". Hence all the rubbish in the article.
    1. alexmach
      alexmach 12 January 2021 14: 55
      0
      actually the article mentions what he saw in these photos.
  27. Nitarius
    Nitarius 11 January 2021 09: 07
    +1
    ))) regular sofa experts))) remove damage from the photo))) laughing
  28. Alexey from Perm
    Alexey from Perm 11 January 2021 09: 08
    -2
    it is no longer a secret. The Chinese Author discovered America))) it has long been clear that the Su 57 is a further development of the Su 27.
    The time will come when China will catch up with the engine lag behind Russia, this is only time. We need to develop our economy and industry in order not to lag far behind. Catching up may no longer work ...
    1. Vasilenko Vladimir
      Vasilenko Vladimir 11 January 2021 09: 12
      +5
      Quote: Alexey from Perm
      It has long been clear that the Su 57 is a further development of the Su 27.

      I'll tell you more SU 57 is a direct further development of the Wright brothers' aircraft
  29. cniza
    cniza 11 January 2021 09: 17
    -1
    So, the author of the material states that he "carefully studied the photographs that were previously published from the Su-57 assembly shops", and came to the conclusion that "in Russia they continue to be based on the design ideas of the Su-27 fighter."


    Funny experts

    1. The comment was deleted.
  30. Errr
    Errr 11 January 2021 09: 22
    0
    From the Sina article:
    In comparison with the advanced world level of new generation fighters, the Russian Su-57 is clearly inferior. It simply has no place at the level of 5th generation fighters.
    Smiled smile and inspired:
    Hungry godfather Fox climbed into the garden,
    In it the grapes of the brush were held.
    At the cinque, eyes and teeth were inflamed;
    And the brushes are juicy as the lagoons burn;
    Only trouble, they hang high:
    Wherever she goes to them,
    Though he sees the eye,
    Yes, tooth noumet.
    Breaking through the whole hour,
    She went and said with annoyance: “Well, well!
    At a glance, he is good,
    Yes green - no ripe berries:
    Immediately you’ll nag your mouth. ”
    Ivan Andreevich Krylov, 1808
  31. Galleon
    Galleon 11 January 2021 09: 24
    +5
    This is all from weakness. From total self-doubt, this is: to write articles on the inventions of various fools, to select phrases and arguments for the statements and fantasies of journalists, who are paid for their lines and interest in these lines, without any back (as well as front) thoughts. Or maybe they find work in this way? Some write all sorts of nonsense, others write refutations of this nonsense - and everyone is busy. But why should we read all this? Meanwhile, the topic of Internet assessments of something here and there is presented as one of the most significant: who and what said about us. Again from uncertainty?
  32. The comment was deleted.
    1. Sergej1972
      Sergej1972 11 January 2021 09: 56
      +1
      There seems to be a link to another resource, to a certain Sina.)
    2. Interlocutor
      Interlocutor 11 January 2021 10: 42
      +3
      I don’t understand, like the site is more or less topwar ..,

      It's simple. The site needs advertising. She feeds. So you need attendance. Want attendance - give "HYIP". If you want a hype - call fools, sick madmen, and of course smart and well-read.
  33. 7,62h54
    7,62h54 11 January 2021 09: 28
    +3
    If you trace the lineage of Chinese weapons, then even the author himself will be surprised at the number of clones.
  34. Vlad Pervovich
    Vlad Pervovich 11 January 2021 09: 30
    +1
    well, of course, a fighter is an air intake with an antenna
  35. jovanni
    jovanni 11 January 2021 09: 35
    +1
    ... So, the author of the material states that "he carefully studied the photographs that were previously published from the Su-57 assembly shops", and came to the conclusion that "in Russia they continue to rely on the design ideas of the Su-27 fighter."

    Well, maybe the eye cut failed ... When studying the photos ...
  36. Ros 56
    Ros 56 11 January 2021 09: 41
    +2
    And what do you think there are no idiots in China, but there are ten times more of them than we have. You never know who and what blurted out, and a drum on his neck and further under the protocol. wassat
  37. Vlad Pervovich
    Vlad Pervovich 11 January 2021 09: 48
    +4
    and at this time on some Chinese site ... "according to numerous experts of the Russian publication TOPWAR, our beloved J-20, complete G ..." wink
  38. 7,62h54
    7,62h54 11 January 2021 09: 50
    +6
    If you briefly go through the Chinese copies, then an incomplete list will be as follows:
    L15 - Yak130
    J15 - Su33
    Y8 - An12
    H4 - Tu4
    H5 - Il28
    H6 - Tu16
    J2 - MiG15
    J5 - MiG17
    J6 - MiG19
    J7 - MiG21
    J11 - Su27
    J16 - Cy30
    CJ6 - Yak18
    KJ2000 - Il76
    This did not include special aircraft, AWACS, helicopters, passenger, etc. And this is only aviation, what to say about small arms, armored vehicles, artillery, air defense and missiles.
    Thieves in one word.
  39. bar
    bar 11 January 2021 10: 05
    0
    Again these famous iksperdy this authoritative edition Sina. They haven't been here for a long time laughing laughing
  40. Ivan Naumov
    Ivan Naumov 11 January 2021 10: 25
    0
    Yes, everyone understands everything, even homeless people of the Third World do not buy their toys. Pakistan even takes their gliders with Russian engines.
    While the United States and Russia are testing weapons in real conflicts and making equipment taking into account combat use, the cross-eyed are stamping enlarged Lego toys that will sprinkle when they face a normally equipped army.
  41. APASUS
    APASUS 11 January 2021 10: 27
    +3
    China got into trouble. The new, highly publicized engine for the J-20 did not show the characteristics that were announced. Blame the Russians, of course, a normal tradition of media coverage stolen from the Americans
  42. Lesorub
    Lesorub 11 January 2021 11: 02
    +2
    In the Chinese edition: Russian Su-57 has no place at the level of fifth generation fighters

    A very strange "expert" on the photo has identified no match - a high school of trolling) - or just a layman.
  43. Tektor
    Tektor 11 January 2021 11: 54
    +5
    Does a fighter have to be so stealthy if it's going to turn on all its 5 radars? After all, the main feature of the Su-57 is its armament with radars, which make it possible to reveal the surrounding environment for hundreds of kilometers around. And he needs a secretive partner (s) with all the stealth attributes, i.e. A hunter capable of communicating with the Su-57 and all other lighting stations via a satellite with a narrow directional beam. It can be predicted that each Su-57, with operating radars, will have from 2 to several Hunters - quiet, quietly sneaking at low altitudes, like stars on the flag of China. The stealth of the Su-57 may only be needed in a solo flight without the use of active radar.
  44. Petro_tut
    Petro_tut 11 January 2021 12: 14
    +1
    Do not care for a place in the classification, its main place in the troops
  45. Reserve buildbat
    Reserve buildbat 11 January 2021 12: 40
    +2
    And I studied the photos of the latest Chinese fighters and declare that these aircraft are about the same speed as the MiG-19, and the maneuverability of the MiG-23 laughing
  46. garik77
    garik77 11 January 2021 12: 55
    0
    But you never know who is there and what he writes. The dude looked at the photos and draws conclusions. A cool specialist however.
    In fact, everything is simpler. The news is over, but the advertisement should be played as before. So they write any nonsense in the hope of being hyped, maybe someone will bite
  47. tTshka
    tTshka 11 January 2021 12: 59
    0
    Su - 27 laughing by photos laughing they see there with the ecology is in trouble fool
  48. Vladimir Vlasov
    Vladimir Vlasov 11 January 2021 13: 02
    -2
    China has always shamed its competitors in order to sell its bullshit cheaper. But the Indians also abandoned SU57 because they believe that this is not the fifth generation. And other potential buyers are also in no hurry to buy SU57. Even the RF Ministry of Defense made only a meager purchase, and most likely to raise the military credibility of this model. Well, if you carefully compare the performance characteristics of SU27 and SU57, you will see that the difference in performance characteristics is minimal. It looks like there are not those leaders who are able to do the DEVELOPMENT of the enterprise.
    1. silver_roman
      silver_roman 13 January 2021 00: 10
      0
      and you are not Chinese for an hour !? and then you carry the same nonsense. absolutely naked, unfounded false words.
  49. Alexey Kartashov
    Alexey Kartashov 11 January 2021 13: 28
    +1
    Sina is an analogue of the Russian "Rain", another Lokhov's "Internet edition"
  50. iouris
    iouris 11 January 2021 13: 29
    0
    The exclusion of the Su-57 from the fifth generation is the Chinese sanctions. What for us?