"A completely new school of tank building": in Turkey appreciated the MBT "Armata"

The T-14 "Armata" is an MBT, created on a completely new technical base, going beyond the framework of both Soviet and Western schools of tank building.

Unique design

This assessment was given by the columnist A. Khazar for the Turkish online edition SavunmaSanayiST:

The Armata, which has a unique design, is the only model among modern MBTs with an unmanned turret.

According to him, the United States was doing serious work on such a tank in the 1980s. However, they faced great difficulties, as there was a risk that the output would be a bulky and breakdown-prone machine. At the same time, in Russia, several decades later, they managed to cope with a similar task.

As a result, a machine was obtained that has about the same power as the Leopard 2 and M1 Abrams, but it is 20% lighter than its Western counterparts, weighing 48 tons.

T-14 is extremely maneuverable and fast among other MBTs.

- writes Khazar, believing that unlike previous models such as the T-90, T-72 and T-62, the suspension system (partially hydraulic) is more similar to the T-80 series.

Multilayer tank

According to him, despite the fact that "the Russians keep the technology of making T-14 armor a secret," a number of conclusions can be drawn. It consists of five "layers": the main welded structure of armored steel; composite armor reinforcing the base structure; protective grilles from anti-tank ammunition; modules of reactive armor "Malachite" in the frontal projection (development of "Contact-5" and "Relic"); active protection system "Afganit".

"Afghanit" is more productive in comparison with "Shtora-1". However, its effectiveness in combating high kinetic energy ammunition, as the Russians say, is highly questionable.

- Khazar notes.

The main armament of the tank is a 125-mm 2A82-1M cannon, capable of firing an ATGM, although initially it was about 152 mm.

The Russians wanted more armor penetration, but the increase in weight and cost made it impossible to choose this weapon.

- considers the observer, in whose opinion the final choice made it possible to use the ammunition already in use.

As Khazar explains, by 2028, 2000 units of T-14 - tanks with "extremely high performance and advanced technologies" should be produced. But at the moment, only 28 cars have been produced, which is caused by "difficulties in allocating funds for this project." However, judging by the statements of officials, the serial production of "Armat" should be launched in 2021.

Comments

[Insurgent]

The T-14 "Armata" is an MBT, created on a completely new technical base, going beyond the framework of both Soviet and Western schools of tank building.

Can't dispute ...
In many ways, an innovative, "breakthrough" tank, unfortunately born in a period when the industry is not ready for its mass production.
And naturally, with such a saturation with the most modern systems, the car cannot be cheap, which also imposes some restrictions on its mass appearance.

But let's hope that these are all temporary difficulties.

Merry Christmas everyone!

[Pessimist22]

There would be a desire, the leadership would not be ready to give a command and impose responsibility for disrupting supplies, and there is no money for this, because a large amount of it accumulates in the oligarchs' accounts and goes in the form of profit to offshore accounts.

[bessmertniy]

Lack of desire is a sign of power impotence. There is a need - you need to do and not look back - whether there is enough money for this or not. The main thing is work, and money is not always his correct assessment.

Join - Merry Christmas! All Health and Happiness! And - so that everyone loves and respects you!

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: bessmertniy

Lack of desire is a sign of power impotence

No, the presence of desire, but the lack of opportunity is a sign of impotence!

[Eragon]

Quote: bessmertniy

Lack of desire is a sign of power impotence. There is a need - you need to do and not look back - whether there is enough money for this or not. The main thing is work, and money is not always his correct assessment.

You shouldn't be so. Of course, we know better from the sofas, but ... There was such an excellent medium tank T-44. It did not go into a large series, it was found inappropriate to reduce the production of simpler and cheaper T-34-85. And, after all, at that time the authorities had complete order with "potency".

[Insurgent]

Quote: Eragon

You shouldn't be so. Of course, we know better from the sofas, but ... There was such an excellent medium tank T-44. It did not go into a large series, it was found inappropriate to reduce the production of simpler and cheaper T-34-85. And, after all, at that time the authorities had complete order with "potency".

Not in vain
You are right, then the authorities had no problems with decisiveness, as well as with brains
And precisely because T-44 did not become so widespread that people thinkingAfter thinking over and comparing all the pros and cons, we focused on the T-54, which eventually "fired" so that it still serves here and there without any particular complaints ...

The T-44, of course, in comparison with the T-34-85, had a number of indisputable advantages, but still carried the stamp of a number of constructive decisions of the outgoing generation, + in addition to everything, the low service life of the undercarriage was noted, which in wartime was not so critical , but for peacetime it was categorically not suitable.

[Svetlana]

What does it mean that the management is not ready to give a command and take responsibility? Nonsense. The country's economy is not ready, but not the leadership. Despite the fact that today we do not have socialism and just cannot give an order.

[Alf]

Quote: Svetlana

The country's economy is not ready

Well, yes, well, yes ... Twenty years of getting up from his knees did not pass in vain for the country ..

[Svetlana]

yes, twenty years were not in vain.

[Krylovets2000 (HVVKU)]

Ninda ... "be held accountable" to whom? Not before anyone, they wanted to their population ..! So yes .. this is nonsense .. But "just give the order" to drop the economy into a deadly lockdown were able to .. quickly and harshly .. maybe ... ".. in Europe, their children and money ....

[for]

Quote: Svetlana

The country's economy is not ready, but not the leadership.

And the economy doesn't depend on the leadership.

yes, twenty years were not in vain.

What could they do?

[Graz]

I think if the pro-in is not ready to release the car in more or less shameful volumes, then it was not necessary to pull it out into the light and ring it around the world, but now the MO does not look very presentable in this matter

[Mwg]

Merry Christmas!
Do you need mass production today? Russia does not envisage massive ground combat operations. And the tactics / strategy of the database have changed. And thousands of already manufactured tanks are being mothballed and waiting for upgrades (which is incomparably cheaper.)
For sale only. But who will trade in innovations.

[Aerodrome]

According to him,

this tradition is all hearsay, everyone knows about ours before us.

[Eragon]

Quote: MVG

Do you need mass production today? Russia does not envisage massive ground combat operations. And the tactics / strategy of the database have changed.

Better tell the Syrians and Novorossians about ground operations (Donetsk, Lugansk). And they will explain to you whether you need it and why.

[vitvit123]

And in Syria and Novorossia, the T-14 (even if it is ground operations, although they are different) is a vital necessity? Would he change anything in the course of time? In Syria and Novorossia do we need armature fists?
As an example ... this reinforcement (in the amount of 1000+ pieces) is not available in the next 5 years, what will change? No, in the next 5 years 1000+ su57, what will change?

[boris epstein]

During the assault on Debaltseve, the T-14 would have saved many tankers' lives, and the boiler would have been closed not near Luganka, but behind Artyomovsk. Uglegorskaya TPP, Uglegorsk pig breeding complex, Artemovskiy Tsvetmet would be transferred to the DPR. The APU would have to retreat from Gorlovka. And then, access to the operational space to Slavyansk, Konstantinovka, Kramatorsk. The Armed Forces of Ukraine had no reserves. And so the Kramatorsk Machine-Building Plant repairs military equipment of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, develops a 155-mm self-propelled gun for NATO standards (the Ukrainian industry does not produce ammunition, NATO caliber 155 mm, calculating the supply of shells from NATO for the Armed Forces).

[vitvit123]

How many lives WOULD save, nobody knows this (by the way, how many tankers died there?), Maybe a million, maybe not one ... about 20 thousand die on our roads a year somewhere ... why about this nobody wants to worry! Hundreds of thousands get drunk ..., drug addicts .. here's food for worries! In the army, one or two will die, everyone starts to "worry" so much at once ..
Everything else could be done without armature, it was not necessary, for various reasons.
I'll tell you a secret, only you to anyone .. and without armature and without su 57, nothing will change in the next few years!
This, of course, does not mean that there is no need to strive and develop, etc.

[Simargl]

Quote: Insurgent

appeared at a time when the industry is not ready for its mass production.

So what? Many military developments are spurring industry.

[Subtext]

I liked the photo for the article. Tank version for the British with their left-hand traffic.

[svp67]

The T-14 "Armata" is an MBT, created on a completely new technical base, going beyond the framework of both Soviet and Western schools of tank building.

I will not argue about the "western", but about the Soviet, it is in vain ... It was the SOVIET developments in tank building that formed the basis of the T-14 "Armata", you just need to know TU History well
1957 ... "aksakal" of the Soviet tank building - Kotin proposes a missile tank "Object 287" for the competition, where the crew of two was housed in a separate "capsule" in the nose of the vehicle

[Vladimir_2U]

Yes, the experimental missile tanks of the USSR are real space for those times.

[Aerodrome]

Quote: Vladimir_2U

The USSR was a real space for those times.

and even today.

[svp67]

Quote: Vladimir_2U

Yes, the experimental missile tanks of the USSR are real space for those times.

So if he was then alone ... there were a lot of them there.

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: svp67

there were a lot of them there.

I wrote:

Quote: svp67

experimental rocket tanks

Tanks plural. Of course, we do not consider the "dragon".

[svp67]

Quote: Vladimir_2U

We, of course, do not consider the "dragon"

IT-1 including ... but there were still.

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: svp67

IT-1 including

Not, in my opinion, an oaky apparatus turned out, although quickly and relatively inexpensive, but not space. )))

[svp67]

Quote: Vladimir_2U

Not, in my opinion, an oaky apparatus turned out, although quickly and relatively inexpensive, but not space. )))

Like the overwhelming majority released from the walls of "UVZ" ... "Dubovo, quickly, inexpensively ..."

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: svp67

"Dubovo, fast, inexpensive ..."

In the case of IT, even a little and not for long. )))

[boris epstein]

Well, the tank destroyers IT-1 was a battalion in the Kiev Special Military District. It did not go into production mainly because of the small ammunition load of missiles, and there was no cannon on it.

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: Boris Epstein

Did not go into production mainly due to the small ammunition load of missiles

Why didn’t go, of course I did, even 1 battalion is almost 30 vehicles, and only 110 production vehicles are mentioned. Just a series of ma-a-lazy. )))

[Thrifty]

Where does the Turk get information about the T14? Or, has he given free rein to his imagination? The "new and innovative" tank is still very raw, with a bunch of unsolved problems. And he will not go to the troops for exactly 5 years at least! And everything else is from the evil one!

[Konnick]

This tank will not be in our army. And a Turkish writer won't help. "Out of bounds" tank literally out of bounds of the railroad gauge, which does not allow transporting this mastodon by rail.
Previously, the Soviet design school sought to minimize optical devices, since the practice of the Second World War and more modern wars showed, in Chechnya, for example, armored vehicles were disabled by shelling of devices, optics are very sensitive to shelling from ordinary small arms already at a distance of 500-600 meters.
Modern optoelectronic devices provide a large visibility distance, and hence the combat distance, but the pursuit of this indicator has led, one might say, to the "gigantization" of aiming devices, surveillance and active protection systems. The overall dimensions of these devices create clearly visible superstructures on the turret, which, when the enemy uses large-caliber sniper rifles, become hit at a distance of two kilometers, or even more.
The design of tanks has reached insanity, in my opinion. The tank, created as a mobile means of combating infantry and firing points in cover, by approaching and using a cannon for direct fire, becomes some kind of armored vehicle for fighting other armored vehicles, and before the first hit of a shell in the tower. Moreover, penetration is not required to disable the tank. A tank hung with so-called "birdhouses" is deprived of these devices. Those. the distance of destruction of the tank is still increasing
The apotheosis of the impasse in the development of design thought was Armata. Armata, whose tower has grown in size due to the increase in instruments and various sensors, thank God no radar station from Shilka was installed. Remember the first attempts at pen with an uninhabited tower - a miniature tower, a lowered tank height. In Armata, a mini-tower, protected by serious armor, remained with the gun, but there is only the gun itself. It's just that you can't see it behind the decorative anti-splinter armor tower. But numerous expensive, practically unprotected devices are visible. And this is just the tip of the iceberg, under the anti-fragmentation armor (judging by the numerous photos, this is not anti-fragmentation, but bullet-proof 10 millimeters thick) there is an aiming system. Yes, the crew will probably remain operational after a shell hit. The shell may not even reach, shot down by KAZ. But the outer tower will not withstand shelling from a large-caliber machine gun. Cannon and machine guns will become scrap metal. And the crew can remain in their supercapsule, blocked by the remnants of thin armor plates of the tower cover, there is no lower evacuation hatch. I imagine even greater destruction if KAZ catches some HE shell from a 152mm howitzer, fragments of which penetrate armor up to 5-20 mm within a radius of 30 meters. And if Armata accidentally drives up to the infantrymen in a working condition at the distance of an aimed shot from a machine gun, then the crew will need to surrender, since he will be completely blinded. And the combined use of Armata and T-72 is undesirable, since all the enemy's attention and fire will be focused on Armata as a priority target.

[Vladimir_2U]

And this is just the tip of the iceberg, under the anti-fragmentation armor (judging by the numerous photos, it is not anti-fragmentation, but bullet-proof 10 millimeters thick) there is a sighting complex ... Armata, whose tower has grown in size due to the increase in devices and various sensors

To understand that you wrote nonsense about the armor, just look at the gun mask, and it is almost identical to the T-90ms, which says a lot about the level of turret defense, and what you consider to be bulletproof is a casing to reduce radar visibility, possibly bulletproof. And the "window" in the tower is the outer head of the sighting complex, and it itself is below the shoulder strap.
The dimensions of the tower have risen up not because of "instruments and sensors" but because of the development and spread of anti-roof ammunition. So-so your analysis turned out.

[Konnick]

This assessment was given by the columnist A. Khazar for the Turkish online edition SavunmaSanayiST.com

A specific link can be given, I would like to see the original article. It is painfully strange that the Turks praise this Armata.

[Revolver]

Quote: Konnick

It is painfully strange that the Turks praise this Armata.

The Turks bought the S-400, and they are looking closely at the SU-57. And with their native tank development, "Altai", they do not have all the glory to Allah. And the Germans seem to have stopped selling them weapons, so there will be no new Leopards or upgrades to the existing ones in the near future. So, in principle, they can already take up the queue for the T-14, because sooner or later there will be an export model.

[Simargl]

Quote: Konnick

It is painfully strange that the Turks praise this Armata.

Why strange? They, by and large, do not have their own tank yet, but they really want it. At the moment they are "gnawing" their "Altai" - a combined hodgepodge from Germans to Koreans. It turns out so-so. Isn't it an option to beg for money for a "tank of the future" (such as T-14), and not a "tank of the past" (Altai), which already cannot be finished?

[My_log_in]

looked at the first photo, the one from the Parade. The question arose: how long have we begun to give honor with the left hand? Or were there exceptions in the charter for left-handers?

[Crash]

Photo flipped

[Eugene-Eugene]

No, not mirrored - from 0:23:

[Crash]

You look at the banners Or have we introduced the Arabic script, from right to left?

[Eugene-Eugene]

You look at the banners

Exactly)))

[Crash]

This method of publishing videos and photos on the Internet is often used so as not to violate copyright

[Bad_gr]

Quote: Crasher

You look at the banners

Quote: Eugene-Eugene

Exactly)))

[Simargl]

Quote: Crasher

so as not to violate copyright

Rather, so that the search engine does not lower the ranking in the search results ...

[iouris]

Quote: Crasher

Photo flipped

And he does not cast a shadow!

[Revolver]

Quote: My_Log_In

looked at the first photo, the one from the Parade. The question arose: how long have we begun to give honor with the left hand? Or were there exceptions in the charter for left-handers?

Or maybe everything is much simpler, and the photo is mirrored?

[Simargl]

Quote: Nagan

Or maybe everything is much simpler

This is a special tank for giving honor to the left-handed

[Thunderbolt]

This is a flipped photo.

[Konnick]

Quote: My_Log_In

looked at the first photo, the one from the Parade. The question arose: how long have we begun to give honor with the left hand? Or were there exceptions in the charter for left-handers?

On the left tank, honor is given to the left. How else to prove that the tank is not a phantom and can be reflected in the mirror.

[501 Legion]

Quote: Insurgent

The T-14 "Armata" is an MBT, created on a completely new technical base, going beyond the framework of both Soviet and Western schools of tank building.

Can't dispute ...
In many ways, an innovative, "breakthrough" tank, unfortunately born in a period when the industry is not ready for its mass production.
And naturally, with such a saturation with the most modern systems, the car cannot be cheap, which also imposes some restrictions on its mass appearance.

But let's hope that these are all temporary difficulties.

Merry Christmas everyone!

so this platform with all the bells and whistles is cheaper than any Western car.

[Konnick]

Quote: Vladimir_2U

To understand that you wrote nonsense about the armor, just look at the gun mask, and it is almost identical to the T-90ms

Uh-huh, identical. Take a closer look
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6UB0lTPmZMA
What do you think, if no one makes tanks with an uninhabited turret, then UVZ came up with it? Everyone has already understood about this impasse. If the active defense is good, then why sculpt such armor, if all the devices are placed under the protection of the tower, then the size will be comparable to a manned tower. In which a crew member can replace a damaged optical device from the inside.
The level of UVZ's development is extremely low, as is the level of the designers, they don't even know how to drink ... I was with them on the same MVK.

[Konnick]

Quote: Konnick

This assessment was given by the columnist A. Khazar for the Turkish online edition SavunmaSanayiST.com

A specific link can be given, I would like to see the original article. It is painfully strange that the Turks praise this Armata.

Is the author of the review minus. I would like to read not individual phrases taken out of context, but an article.

[Konnick]

As a result, a machine was obtained that has about the same power as the Leopard 2 and M1 Abrams, but it is 20% lighter than its Western counterparts, weighing 48 tons.

48 tons, it will not be enough .... much more likely about 60 tons.

[Simargl]

Quote: Konnick

48 tons, will not be enough

The tower actually weighs a lot. 30-40% of the mass of the tank. But the fewer people there are, the easier it is. If the T-14 tower were habitable, it would weigh under 70.

[Konnick]

Quote: Vladimir_2U

the window "in the tower is the outer head of the sighting complex, and it itself is below the shoulder strap.

Do you think that without a "head" the sight will work?

[Konnick]

Quote: Aerodrome

this tradition is all hearsay, everyone knows about ours before us.

What is suspicious in this article, the author does not give a direct link. Moreover, this article has already been published on several Internet resources, even links to ... VO.
UralVagonZavod sausage is great, there is no work and here is another attempt, but forget about the Armata, which was promoted ahead of time and is now advertised through the "Turkish edition".

[Incvizitor]

Already seven years ago they knew this, but he just woke up.

but the increase in weight and cost

It seems to me that the point is in the reliability and wear of the tool.

[Laksamana besar]

Smiled, expert.

As Khazar explains, 2028 T-2000 units should be produced by 14 ...

[Konnick]

Quote: Simargl

Quote: Konnick

48 tons, will not be enough

The tower actually weighs a lot. 30-40% of the mass of the tank. But the fewer people there are, the easier it is. If the T-14 tower were habitable, it would weigh under 70.

And everything that used to be in the tower is now on the tower under the shell

[Konnick]

Quote: Simargl

Quote: Konnick

It is painfully strange that the Turks praise this Armata.

Why strange? They, by and large, do not have their own tank yet, but they really want it. At the moment they are "gnawing" their "Altai" - a combined hodgepodge from Germans to Koreans. It turns out so-so. Isn't it an option to beg for money for a "tank of the future" (such as T-14), and not a "tank of the past" (Altai), which already cannot be finished?

Do not call this crazy raving the tank of the future. Even the Ministry of Defense is trying not to mention this breakthrough. Maybe someone will tell you the purpose of this tank.

[Selevc]

The main armament of the tank is a 125-mm 2A82-1M cannon, capable of firing an ATGM, although initially it was about 152 mm.

I wonder if they had installed a 152mm gun - would Armata need to bring a separate menu to the front line like in a restaurant ??? But what about the unification of ammunition with the same 72, 80,90 ???

And still wondering who exactly came to mind in Russia to make a revolution in tank building ???

And why was the Black Eagle so bad - the evolutionary continuation of the T line without revolutions ??? !!!

[kig]

Why is the tanker in the hatch saluting with his left hand? So it is possible?