Military Review

Not in the Pacific Ocean ... Places of the last battles of the Civil War

321

The beautiful song "Through the valleys and over the hills" is known to everyone who is interested in one of the most tragic and heroic pages stories our Fatherland - the Civil War raging at the beginning of the XNUMXth century. It is in this song that the soldiers who fought for the world's first state of workers and peasants are affirmed


"They finished their campaign in the Pacific Ocean."

Nice, but not true.

The last battles of that war died down in a completely different place.

The defeat of the remnants of the White Insurgent Army and the withdrawal of foreign troops from Primorye at the end of the autumn of 1922 really became a victory, marking the elimination of the last major hotbed of resistance to the new government in Russia. However, it would be premature to talk about its complete cessation at that moment.

Yakut campaign


The final battle of the Civil War should rightfully be considered the Yakut campaign of General Pepelyaev and his Siberian Volunteer Druzhina, which actually lasted until mid-1923.

In this episode of the fratricidal battle, on the fields of which the best sons of Russia converged chest to chest, perhaps, all its essence, all its tragedy and paradoxicality are reflected.

The main opponents, whose confrontation decided the outcome of the struggle, were ensign of the Russian Imperial Army Ivan Strod and its captain Anatoly Pepelyaev (Kolchak promoted him to lieutenant general). At the same time, Strode, who fought for the Reds, was a complete St.George knight for the battles on German.

Both fought to the last, did not bow to the bullets and did not spare themselves.

Both survived that war. Strode as a winner and a hero, one of the first to add three Orders of the Red Banner to the "Georgies". Pepeliaev - in the status of a defeated and pardoned enemy.

Both were shot in 1937. And on exactly the same charges.

When the head of the Provisional Regional People's Administration of Yakutia, Socialist-Revolutionary Pyotr Kulikovsky, arrived at Anatoly Pepelyaev, after the execution of Kolchak, who had settled in Chinese Harbin, and offered him the command of the "armed forces" of this "state formation" that arose as a result of the anti-Bolshevik uprising, the general was quite surprised.

"Are you going to take Moscow ?!"

- if the answer to this question was yes, Kulikovsky would certainly have gone home. However, he was neither a fool nor a fluffy man and frankly admitted:

the goal is much more modest - to take Irkutsk and proclaim there a Provisional Siberian Government. And then - how it goes ...

Pepeliaev called his interlocutor an adventurer, but accepted the offer. Having enlisted the support of the Primorsky government, which was living out its last days, which resulted in seven hundred volunteers, a certain number weapons, ammunition and equipment, the general with his Siberian squad on two ships departed for Yakutia.

The information that awaited him upon reaching his destination was not only overwhelming, but devastating. It turned out that the Reds by that time already controlled almost the entire territory of Yakutia. And from the rebel detachments, which really represented a considerable force, two hundred people remained. The rest were killed in battles with Special Purpose Units.

Anyone in Pepeliaev's place would probably have thrown up his hands:

"It's not meant to be!",

and would have turned the ships back to Vladivostok.

With a "landing" of half a thousand people and local forces of two hundred "bayonets", without artillery, the whole undertaking turned from a daring adventure into sheer suicide. Pepeliaev, however, was a Russian officer. And he did not know how to retreat. With what he had, he moved to Yakutsk, occupied by the Reds.

To begin with, it was necessary to take Nelkan, where a large CHON supply base was located. The village was taken, even the arsenal was captured - only the retreating Reds did not leave a crumb of food behind them.

As a result, Pepeliaev and his men had to starve before the arrival of reinforcements. At the end of November 1922, another 200 people arrived in the village - with the long-awaited food and deadly news:

"Vladivostok has fallen!"

There was nowhere else to retreat, even if desired. The general, however, did not even think of such a thing.

Ice siege


Gathering up his strength, he moved to Amga - a settlement that was key for the capture of Yakutsk.

Here Pepeliaev was also lucky - despite the frost of 50 degrees, his troops captured the village. They got rich trophies in the form of fifteen machine guns, other weapons, ammunition and grenades.

From Yakutsk, the last detachment of the White movement was now separated by one and a half hundred versts and ... stubborn Reds.

A detachment of three hundred Red Army men under the command of Ivan Strod, which made its way (to the tiny Yakut village of Sasyl-Syysy, located to the north of the Amgu), did not allow Pepelyaev to launch an offensive on Yakutsk.

Where to attack with such a center of resistance in the rear?

Reds are herded into yurts for wintering cattle. All their “fortifications” are a “rampart” of dung frozen into the stone, towering around. And yet...

They meet the first assaults with Maximov's dagger fire and rifle volleys. Pepeliaev is forced to throw against the besieged almost all of his available forces, exceeding them many times over.

After several days of fierce fighting, firmly knowing that the Red Army men have no food, problems with water and already many wounded, the general personally negotiates and guarantees the life of everyone who lay down their arms.

In response, a red banner flies up over the yurts and the Internationale, which is being taken out by hundreds of hoarse gulps, takes off.

Such is the war, where there are Russians on both sides ...

"Ice siege"

as it was later called, lasted 18 days.

The Red Army men ate the fallen cattle, chewed snow, and died in dozens of bullets. But they didn't give up.

A detachment of 600 men who had left Yakutsk to help them, having two guns, decided the outcome of the battle.

On March 2, he took Amga. The next day Icy Siege was filmed.

This, in fact, was the end of Pepeliaev's campaign.

The remnants of his troops surrendered on June 18, 1923, when the Red forces blocked their last refuge - the city of Ayan. The order to surrender was given personally by the general, who did not want to shed more Russian blood in a completely senseless struggle.

Thus ended the last campaign of the Civil War, in which heroes and martyrs fought on both sides. And each of them is for Russia.

The greatest tragedy of our Motherland was that each side then saw Russia differently ...
Author:
Photos used:
Photo from Wikipedia Civil War in Russia
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  1. mat-vey
    mat-vey 9 January 2021 05: 25
    +26
    "The greatest tragedy of our Motherland was that each of the sides saw Russia in different ways ..." Indeed, in different ways - some wanted to continue crunching a French roll, while others were already unbearable for bread with bran - although the last and rye and wheat and raised.
    1. mat-vey
      mat-vey 9 January 2021 05: 27
      +7
      Judging by the "fast minus", the farmer dropped by after the morning plowing of winter crops.
      1. 2 Level Advisor
        2 Level Advisor 9 January 2021 07: 16
        +3
        Well, you have a very simplified vision of this issue, as in Soviet textbooks .. In fact, I think the main bad person is Nikolai II, who brought, by world standards, a normally living country, one of the leaders of that world (to the level of which, many years later) to the handle literally in a few years .. if it had not been for him- there would have been no revolution and 2 World-I am sure they would have gone differently, and naturally, the collapse of everything in the country with the death of the best people in Civil they killed each other - it wouldn’t have happened .. The consequences of all this have not yet been cleared up ..
        And people did not die for the rolls, but for the Motherland and its future, and on both sides .. In the article, if you noticed, 2 tsarist officers (according to your opinion) fought with each other ..
        1. unknown
          unknown 9 January 2021 08: 28
          +1
          All revolutions are made from above.
          The "elite" of tsarist Russia betrayed their country.
          The assets were taken out, social obligations were canceled.
          The only problem is that the new government was not popular either.
          And the organization and financing of the "revolution" is foreign.
          1. Sling cutter
            Sling cutter 9 January 2021 09: 27
            +11
            Quote: ignoto
            All revolutions are made from above.
            The "elite" of tsarist Russia betrayed their country.
            The assets were taken out, social obligations were canceled.
            The only problem is that the new government was not popular either.
            And the organization and financing of the "revolution" is foreign.

            On your example, it becomes obvious that education in the Russian Federation is dwindling.
          2. Astra wild2
            Astra wild2 9 January 2021 10: 56
            +4
            "social obligations have been zeroed" to me alone, it seems to me that it resembles today?
            Believe me, the current reality is ALREADY SICK, but I'm AFRAID of Putin's departure. You have not disobeyed. More precisely, I WANT him to leave, but I'm afraid of his successors.
            In October 1917 there was a party of the RSDLP (b) and Vladimir Ilyich Lenin, but now? The Communist Party and GA Zyuganov, and from him Lenin is like a bull producer from a eunuch.
            Zakhar Prilepin?
            Maxim Suraykin?
            They're ALL BREAKERS
            1. Phil77
              Phil77 9 January 2021 11: 07
              +4
              Quote: Astra wild2
              They're ALL BREAKERS

              Verochka! Understand, my dear, that the irremovability of power is ... a collapse! Gangrene, if yours! Medically;
            2. Astra wild2
              Astra wild2 9 January 2021 11: 43
              +6
              Does anyone doubt that Putin has nullified all social obligations?
              Or do you think that Zyuganov, Prilepin or Suraykin are equal to Lenin.?!
            3. Astra wild2
              Astra wild2 9 January 2021 12: 47
              +7
              Does anyone doubt that Putin has zeroed out social obligations?
              Or would you say that Zyuganov is the second Lenin?
              I WANT A CHANGE OF COURSE no less than you, but I WANT A SMART LEADER!
              I’m sick of the liars.
              I like these words: "cowards, talkers, narcissistic narcissists and Hamletikas waved a cardboard sword" (V. I. Lenin). They will characterize all "talker saviors". They are afraid or do not want to change their course, and to show their importance, they chat and threaten the authorities: "We will ask you if we want."
            4. Astra wild2
              Astra wild2 9 January 2021 13: 00
              +10
              Minus players, please read my words: "I want him to leave, but I'm afraid of his successors *.
              Do you know who will replace him? If so, that's good, but I don't know and I'm afraid. The unknown is always scary. I am afraid that the henchmen will be the successor or the successor: the "families". You can slap me 50 minuses, but that won't fix the situation. I would put myself 100 minos to help!
              1. Malyuta
                Malyuta 9 January 2021 13: 22
                +27
                Quote: Astra wild2
                I am afraid that the henchmen will be the successor or the successor: the "families"

                I am very sorry, but tell me, and whose master is he?
                1. Astra wild2
                  Astra wild2 9 January 2021 17: 41
                  -1
                  Yes, he inherited .B .N, but became a "disobedient". At least there were materials on the site that N. I. Yeltsina and Surkov were outraged by him and nominated successors
                  1. Doliva63
                    Doliva63 9 January 2021 18: 35
                    +3
                    Quote: Astra wild2
                    Yes, he inherited .B .N, but became a "disobedient". At least there were materials on the site that N. I. Yeltsina and Surkov were outraged by him and nominated successors

                    Right now he is spinning Shoigu (a member of the "family", by the way) - why would that be?
                    1. vladcub
                      vladcub 10 January 2021 09: 05
                      -1
                      It is imperative to stick in: "family", and find other definitions poorly? Offhand "" Yeltsinists "," proliberal "," neoliberals. "So the language is becoming impoverished: one admitted a new definition and picked up everything, and then we start to wonder: why are we getting stupid?
                      1. Doliva63
                        Doliva63 10 January 2021 18: 03
                        +1
                        Quote: vladcub
                        It is imperative to stick in: "family", and find other definitions poorly? Offhand "" Yeltsinists "," proliberal "," neoliberals. "So the language is becoming impoverished: one admitted a new definition and picked up everything, and then we start to wonder: why are we getting stupid?

                        I can no longer be stupid. Well, unless, when insanity comes laughing
                  2. Astra wild2
                    Astra wild2 10 January 2021 10: 03
                    -2
                    Probably, you should write: Surkov and Naina Iosifovna sharply condemned "Bolotnaya Ploshchad"?
                  3. Malyuta
                    Malyuta 10 January 2021 12: 42
                    +21
                    Quote: Astra wild2
                    Yes, he inherited .B .N, but became a "disobedient". At least there were materials on the site that N. I. Yeltsina and Surkov were outraged by him and nominated successors

                    Are you serious? And as far as I remember, what has to do with marmots? Valoshin, Yumashev, Deripaska, Dyachenko, Chubais, they decided that.
                    1. Astra wild2
                      Astra wild2 10 January 2021 14: 19
                      +1
                      For me and Surkovs and Voloshin and others - STINKY
                2. Xnumx vis
                  Xnumx vis 9 January 2021 19: 59
                  -2
                  Bro! Press, burn! You are a real American man!
                3. Xnumx vis
                  Xnumx vis 10 January 2021 09: 39
                  0
                  Quote: Malyuta
                  Quote: Astra wild2
                  I am afraid that the henchmen will be the successor or the successor: the "families"

                  I am very sorry, but tell me, and whose master is he?

                  Bro! And the skilks toby flesh the niches of the Omerikan friends? Do you write in the browser and in Gordon? All Svidomo sites have the same posts. Is this yours?
            5. gsev
              gsev 11 February 2021 23: 02
              -1
              Quote: Astra wild2
              Zakhar Prilepin?
              Maxim Suraykin?
              They're ALL BREAKERS

              When Putin became president of Russia, many were also frivolous about his attempts to make Russia. For example, in the film The Lord of the Rings, the character Gollum - Smeagol is brought out as a loser with claims to seize power. Don't you think this is a caricature of Putin? Remember how the "Kremlin dreamer-Lenin" assessed the brilliant visionary and science fiction writer Wales in the book "Russia in the Dark"? And his successors, just 25 years later, returned to Russia all the territories lost by Nicholas II and Kerensky, and 2 years later they overthrew Great Britain from the participants of the Great Game. In any case, Putin is not eternal, and the mind of an old man cannot be as clear and quick as that of a young man. Russia is still being saved by the fact that Biden is threatened by progressive scolerosis much more than the threat from the east.
        2. Olgovich
          Olgovich 9 January 2021 08: 57
          -8
          Quote: Level 2 Advisor
          In fact, I believe that the main bad person is Nikolai 2, who brought, by world standards, a normally living country, one of the leaders of that world (to the level of which they returned after many years) to the handle in just a few years.

          All countries participating in WWI, the most terrible Great War in the history of mankind, brought to the handle.

          But it was in Russia that the "pen" was ... the best: Russia is the ONLY belligerent European country where there was no HUNGER: 800 people died of hunger in Germany! Hungary was terribly starving, France, England, Belgium, Serbia, etc., were starving.

          Russia is the only country of Antatnta, which stood in 1917 on the land of the aggressor.

          Russia is the freest country of WWI: parties and unions worked, there were strikes, strikes at military factories, etc.: WHAT did they do in France, England, see. IN .. It's wild to imagine this in the Second World War.

          Beating your belligerent Motherland in the back is impossible, that is the question.

          As for the end of the Civil War in 1923, it is simply ridiculous, we read, for a start, the report of the People's Commissariat for Internal Affairs Yezhov 1937 at the Plenum of the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party of the Soviet Union:
          Over the past three months, the NKVD authorities have uncovered a number of fascist anti-Soviet formations:

          a). Military fascist conspiracy led by the largest commanders of the Red Army - Tukhachevsky, Gamarnik, Yakir, Uborevich, Kork, Eideman and others.

          b). Right-fascist conspiracy in the NKVDled by Yagoda.

          at). Kremlin right-fascist group conspirators, led by Yenukidze.

          d). The largest spy organization POV”Headed by Unshlikht, Loganovsky, Doletsky and others.

          d). Polish group of national demos in Belarus, led by Goloded and Chervyakov.

          e). Anti-Soviet Right-Trotskyist group in the Azov-Black Sea and Ordzhonikidze Oblasts led by Shcheboldaev, Pivovarov, Larin and others, uniting not only Trotskyists and the right, but also the largest anti-Soviet Cossack and partisan insurgent formations.

          g). Anti-Soviet Trotskyite group in Eastern Siberia headed by the first secretary of the Regional Committee Razumov.

          h). Right-wing anti-Soviet group in the Urals headed by the first secretary of the Sverdlovsk Regional Committee Kabakov.

          and). An anti-Soviet right-fascist group in the Western Region, headed by the Regional Committee Secretary Rumyantsev.

          to). The largest Trotskyite spy organization in the Far East headed by the chairman of the Regional Executive Committee Krutov, Schmidt and others.

          l). A large organization of the right in Western Siberia, uniting partisan-insurgent cadres among the special settlers.

          m). Anti-Soviet Cossack organization in the Orenburg region. uniting the Cossack and insurgent cadres, associated with the ROVS, headed by the chairman of the regional executive committee Vasilyev and the chairman of the City Council Kashirin.

          n). A destructive anti-Soviet Trotskyite group in the organs of the People's Commissariat of Agriculture and the People's Commissariat of State Farms.

          3. I have listed only the most important ones. Besides these, in ALL regions and regions anti-Soviet formations were revealed, ..

          5. The joint center of the centers included: Rykov, Tomsky and Bukharin - from the Rights, Socialist-Revolutionaries and Mensheviks; Yenukidze — from the military group and the group of the Cheka conspirators; Kamenev (and later Sokolnikov) - from the Zinovievites; Pyatakov - from the Trotskyists.

          6. The main task of the joint center of the centers of anti-Soviet fascist formations, set - overthrow of Soviet power and restoration of capitalism in USSR.


          Sho was happening, sho was happening in the first "people's" state ... belay request

          Yes, I forgot: Yezhov ... ALSO turned out to be a terrorist of the organization with the aim of "overthrowing the Soviet regime and restoration of capitalism in the USSR."

          So in 1937, the GW raged worse than 1923, and never completely died out ...
          1. Deniska999
            Deniska999 9 January 2021 09: 44
            +4
            the most terrible Great War in the history of mankind.


            That is, the Second World War is flowers in comparison with WWI, in your opinion?)
          2. Sugar Honeyovich
            Sugar Honeyovich 9 January 2021 09: 51
            +9
            Quote: Olgovich
            Russia is the only country of Antatnta, which stood in 1917 on the land of the aggressor

            Wrong. Not the only one.
            Quote: Olgovich
            Russia is the freest country of WWI: parties and unions worked, there were strikes, strikes at military factories, etc.: WHAT did they do in France, England, see. IN .. It's wild to imagine this in the Second World War.

            The indicator is not freedom, but the abnormality of the situation in the country. The attitude of the people to the authorities. Unsurprisingly, a revolution with global implications took place in a country with a "better handle."
            Quote: Olgovich
            As for the end of the Civil War in 1923, it's just ridiculous, we read, for a start, the report of the People's Commissariat for Internal Affairs Yezhov

            Quote: Olgovich
            but never completely faded ...

            If we put the question this way, then the GW began hundreds of years before 1918 and did not stop! angry
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 9 January 2021 11: 59
              -12%
              Quote: Sahar Medovich
              Wrong. Not the only one.

              True, the only one
              Quote: Sahar Medovich
              The indicator is not freedom, but the abnormality of the situation in the country. ...

              Freedom is not normal for born slaves -those. for sweets, yes.
              Quote: Sahar Medovich
              If you put the question like this

              But as? This is MARSIANA from "Poland to the Far East, in the KREMLIN and LUBYANKA" in "ALL regions and territories" (according to the Report of the NKVD of the USSR) countries tried to return capitalism in 1937?
              The number of people shot in a year is more than half a MILLION people, MILLIONS imprisoned ... This is not a GW? WHAT is it?

              Do you respect Stalin? And he reported in 1937 the following:
              We must put an end to the opportunist complacency that stems from the erroneous assumption that as our forces grow, the enemy seems to become more and more tame and harmless.
              it has been proved that the Trotskyite-Zinovievist fiends unite in the struggle against Soviet power all the most embittered and sworn enemies of the working people of our country - spies, provocateurs, saboteurs, White Guards, kulaks, etc.,
              It is necessary to smash and throw away the rotten theory that with each of our advancements the class struggle in our country should seem to fade more and more,

              On the contrary, the more we move forward, the more we have success, the more the remnants of the defeated exploiting classes will become embittered, the sooner they will go to more acute forms of struggle,

              Do you hear not?

              Incidentally, spies it turned out ... ALL the first the top leadership of the Bolshevik countries (except Stalin): ALL the first composition of the Council of People's Commissars, ALL the first Politburo of the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party of Belarus, who replaced Lenin at the post Pre-Council USSR, the supreme leader and the chief of the General Staff of the Red Army, their deputies, people's commissars, 78% of the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party of Belarus of the 17th YPR Congress, etc.

              Wow, "guide"! belay request
              1. Phil77
                Phil77 9 January 2021 12: 57
                +9
                Quote: Olgovich
                guide

                Andrei! Greetings, dear! Here, mind you! How many articles, arguments, eh? Is he worth it? Putin? Chel wore a PORTFOLIO behind a Sobchak?
                1. Phil77
                  Phil77 9 January 2021 13: 00
                  +1
                  Quote: Phil77
                  for Sobchak?

                  If this is our EVERYTHING !? Then - yes! I take off my hat to the people who are led by THIS.
                  1. Phil77
                    Phil77 9 January 2021 13: 01
                    +2
                    Quote: Phil77
                    hat to the people, by whom

                    For what? For patience .... and so on.
                  2. vladcub
                    vladcub 9 January 2021 18: 00
                    0
                    To equate Putin and the people? You can go far
                2. Phil77
                  Phil77 9 January 2021 13: 10
                  +1
                  Quote: Phil77
                  for Sobchak?

                  Scary, not even he! Although, yes ... Scary is the gang who stands behind one! And there are a lot of them !!!! This is scary! Pugachev? I really hope that yes, there will be !!!!!
                  1. mat-vey
                    mat-vey 9 January 2021 16: 14
                    -1
                    Quote: Phil77
                    Pugachev? I really hope that yes, there will be !!!!!

                    There is more likely to be Gabriel Myasnikov ..
                3. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 9 January 2021 13: 18
                  -9
                  Quote: Phil77
                  Andrei! Greetings, dear! Here, mind you! How many articles, arguments have you brought, eh? Is he worth it? Putin?

                  Greetings, Sergey. Categorically!hi

                  But the article is still not about Putin.

                  As for him, he (for me) is the ONLY leader of the country over the past 100 years, under which RUSSIA did not decrease (as it was 70 years), but grew due to the return of the RUSSIAN lands and their inhabitants to the HOMELAND.

                  Under the previous ones, she continuously, for tens of years, ruthlessly trimmed to MILLIONS km2, as a result, the Russian people became the most divided people on Earth.
                  1. Phil77
                    Phil77 9 January 2021 13: 23
                    +6
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    km2, as a result of which the Russian people became the most divided people on Earth

                    How do you like to beat with * Fact *, eh! Now the question? Why, this is my Moscow * oxyrgiznilis *, Like this & sharply ??????? I need it ?!
                    1. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 9 January 2021 13: 39
                      -5
                      Quote: Phil77
                      How do you like to beat with * Fact *, eh! Now the question? Why, this is my Moscow * oxyrgiznilis *, Like this & sharply ??????? I need it ?!

                      Nobody needs it.

                      But the Russians, to my great horror and chagrin, are getting older and less giving birth ... And that's putting it mildly ...
                  2. Machito
                    Machito 9 January 2021 17: 07
                    +7
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    Quote: Phil77
                    Andrei! Greetings, dear! Here, mind you! How many articles, arguments have you brought, eh? Is he worth it? Putin?

                    Greetings, Sergey. Categorically!hi

                    But the article is still not about Putin.

                    As for him, he (for me) is the ONLY leader of the country over the past 100 years, under which RUSSIA did not decrease (as it was 70 years), but grew due to the return of the RUSSIAN lands and their inhabitants to the HOMELAND.

                    Under the previous ones, she continuously, for tens of years, ruthlessly trimmed to MILLIONS km2, as a result, the Russian people became the most divided people on Earth.

                    Did Pushkin make territorial concessions to China? And in the extinction of the Russian last 20 years of WWII, but the Polovtsy and the Pechenegs are to blame?
                    1. mat-vey
                      mat-vey 9 January 2021 17: 38
                      +8
                      Quote: Bearded
                      Did Pushkin make territorial concessions to China? And in the extinction of the Russian last 20 years of WWII, but the Polovtsy and the Pechenegs are to blame?

                      and the fact that the aluminum industry has become a little bit Russian, probably "Lenin laid the bomb"
                    2. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 9 January 2021 20: 08
                      -9
                      Quote: Bearded
                      Did Pushkin make territorial concessions to China?

                      Provide statistical data on the territory of the Russian Federation BEFORE the "concessions" and AFTER: show the DIFFERENCE.

                      You can not? No. And why then knead the air?
                      Quote: Bearded
                      And in the extinction of the Russians for the last 20 years of WWII, but the Polovtsy and the Pechenegs are to blame?

                      Yes, the Pechenegs are a fairy tale compared to those who, in just a few decades, led the world's fastest growing people to ... extinction.

                      Don't you know that old people DO NOT give birth?

                      So the population of Russia by 1990 was OLD, a THIRD of the country lived in conditions of extinction, by 1992 it was a Russian cross.

                      What do you propose to go to churchyards 150 thousand extinct Russian villages by 1989 - to throw a cry?
                      1. Machito
                        Machito 10 January 2021 00: 58
                        +2
                        And you propose to shift our demographic problems onto the Polovtsy and the Pechenegs? Or is it still the power to blame that the slaves do not want to breed poverty?
                      2. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 10 January 2021 09: 02
                        -3
                        Quote: Bearded
                        And you propose to shift our demographic problems onto the Polovtsy and the Pechenegs?

                        naturally yes: on those who led to Extinction by 1991
                        Quote: Bearded
                        Or is it still the power to blame that the slaves do not want to produce poverty?

                        slaves give birth so that you will not have time to count, see Africa, Asia.
                      3. Machito
                        Machito 10 January 2021 11: 37
                        +3
                        That is, is the Communist Party to blame for the fact that our oligarchs are selling natural resources that previously belonged to the people to the West and transferring money to offshores there, buying the most expensive real estate there?
                  3. bk0010
                    bk0010 10 January 2021 01: 41
                    +1
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    Yes, the Pechenegs are a fairy tale compared to those who, in just a few decades, led the world's fastest growing people to ... extinction.
                    Are the Chinese dying out? Suddenly.

                    Quote: Olgovich
                    What do you propose to go to the churchyards of 150 thousand extinct Russian villages by 1989 - a cry to throw?
                    Don't confuse villages and people. The fact that the village is abandoned does not mean at all that all of its inhabitants died out, they just moved to where it is better.
                  4. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 10 January 2021 09: 12
                    -2
                    Quote: bk0010
                    Are the Chinese dying out? Suddenly

                    The Russians.
                    Journal "Science and Life" in 1900 (yes, this is not a conscientious magazine), based on the 1897 census, he concluded that with the existing population growth rates in Russia, it will overtake the Chinese
                    Quote: bk0010
                    Don't confuse villages and people. The fact that the village is abandoned does not mean at all that all of its inhabitants died out, they just moved to where it is better.

                    Those. it is normal that in just ,,,, 30 years by 1989 it disappeared .... HALF of settlements in Russia ?! fool
                    Those MILLIONS hectares of abandoned by 1985, useless, plowing, that's better"?

                    Can you show WHERE such was the treatment of WEALTH in the world?

                    And yes, they died out: by 1992 the Russian Cross
                  5. Deniska999
                    Deniska999 10 January 2021 09: 25
                    +3
                    The journal "Science and Life" in 1900 (yes, this is not a conscientious journal), based on the 1897 census, concluded that with the current population growth rate in Russia, it will overtake the Chinese


                    Yes, people should have mastered the Moon and Mars for a long time and live for 100 years, according to the forecasts of various magazines)
                  6. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 10 January 2021 11: 14
                    -4
                    Quote: Deniska999
                    Yes, people should have mastered the Moon and Mars for a long time and live for 100 years, according to the forecasts of various magazines)

                    yes, people have long been visited the moondespite solid scientific evidence of a flat earth on three whales and a moon on crystal firmament
                4. Sugar Honeyovich
                  Sugar Honeyovich 10 January 2021 09: 45
                  +3
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  The journal "Science and Life" in 1900 (yes, this is not a conscientious journal), based on the 1897 census, concluded that with the current population growth rate in Russia, it will overtake the Chinese

                  The same "Science and Life" in 1905 wrote:
                  "Recruits are shrinking
                  Recently, the St. Petersburg military presence noted the sharply conspicuous crushing of the capital's younger generation. Strong, healthy and strong young people of the draft age are encountered less and less frequently. The reasons are that the life of young people passes in the extremely unhygienic conditions of the capital. These people are born and grow up in damp and dirty basements, breathe the poisoned air of the backyards and have no idea about clean and healthy air.
                  But is one of the capital's population shrinking? No! The rustic is also becoming smaller. One of the main reasons, besides malnutrition, is vodka. Export of alcohol abroad is hampered by high duties, which have recently been imposed by foreign countries. Russia is drowning in the huge reserves of alcohol that have accumulated over the past years. " belay
                5. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 10 January 2021 11: 21
                  -4
                  Quote: Sahar Medovich
                  ... One of the main reasons, besides malnutrition, is vodka.

                  Whether it is the people's system! yes From 1940 to 1980, the population grew by 30%, and the survival of vodka by .... 700% .

                  Here they ate something, "gorged themselves on" from the heart, one might say, thanks to the care of the authorities, which dramatically increased its output by 700%
              2. bk0010
                bk0010 10 January 2021 12: 53
                +1
                Quote: Olgovich
                The journal "Science and Life" in 1900 (yes, this is not a conscientious journal), based on the 1897 census, concluded that with the current population growth rate in Russia, it will overtake the Chinese
                If you look at the graph, you will not see anything like that. Because the journalist proceeded from the number of births, but did not take into account the child supermortality.
                Quote: Olgovich
                Those. it is normal that in just ,,,, 30 years by 1989 it disappeared .... HALF of settlements in Russia ?!
                That is, you admitted that the disappearance of settlements and the extinction of people are different things. Very well. I already told you that this was directly achieved. And what is not trillions of hectares? It would sound better. How were these millions of hectares to be cultivated in abandoned villages? The sense from such villages was in subsistence farming, in the industrial world they are useless. Here is a graph of yields, show the steady decline caused by the reduction of unpromising villages:
              3. Olgovich
                Olgovich 14 January 2021 08: 30
                0
                Quote: bk0010
                If you look at the graph, you will not see anything like that. Because the journalist proceeded from the number of births, but did not take into account the child supermortality.

                take a look yourself, so as not to grind nonsense 1900-1910
                Quote: bk0010
                That is, you admitted that the disappearance of settlements and the extinction of people are different things. Very well.

                nowhere did I say this, and those and those died out, see. statistics.
                Quote: bk0010
                I already told you that this was directly achieved.

                murderers and criminals have sought, quite right
                Quote: bk0010
                So what not trillions of hectares? It would sound better. How were these millions of hectares to be cultivated in abandoned villages? The sense from such villages was in subsistence farming, in the industrial world they are useless

                because these are documents, if not.

                Give the Koreans and they will show a good deal.

                you in general are such nonsense about normality ...... abandonment and extinction, that hair stands on end.
              4. bk0010
                bk0010 14 January 2021 20: 23
                0
                Quote: Olgovich
                take a look yourself, so as not to grind nonsense 1900-1910
                I see a straight line until 1941.
                Quote: Olgovich
                nowhere did I say this, and those and those died out, see. statistics.
                Yes, no one left at all, everyone died out, yeah. A total of 300 million people.
                Quote: Olgovich
                because these are documents, if not.

                Give the Koreans and they will show a good deal.

                you in general are such nonsense about normality ...... abandonment and extinction, that hair stands on end.
                The British showed, with their fencing, the same processes were much softer here.
              5. Olgovich
                Olgovich 14 January 2021 21: 56
                0
                Quote: bk0010
                I see a straight line until 1941.

                This is already YOUR line - with tens of millions of victims and tens of millions of demographic losses.
                Quote: bk0010
                Yes, no one left at all, everyone died out, yeah. A total of 300 million people.

                Russians have been dying out since 1964 (depopulation). Absolute decline since 1987 in 3 regions. in 1990-THIRD of the population-in conditions of extinction. to 1992 - Russian cross
                Quote: bk0010
                The British showed, with their fencing, the same processes were much softer here.

                depopulated, run wild virgin land Non-black earth is the result of your soft processes
              6. bk0010
                bk0010 15 January 2021 20: 49
                0
                Quote: Olgovich
                This is already YOUR line - with tens of millions of victims and tens of millions of demographic losses.
                From 1910 to 1917 - yours. And note that it does not show the damage from the civil war, this is the mortality rate in tsarist times.
                Quote: Olgovich
                Russians have been dying out since 1964 (depopulation). Absolute decline since 1987 in 3 regions. in 1990-THIRD of the population-in conditions of extinction. to 1992 - Russian cross
                And how do you explain this mortality in the days of the crushers?
                Quote: Olgovich
                depopulated, feral virgin lands of the Non-Black Earth Region are the result of your soft processes
                And the tundra is unplowed ... The land, the cultivation of which is economically unprofitable, has returned to nature. What are you unhappy with?
              7. Olgovich
                Olgovich 16 January 2021 12: 44
                0
                Quote: bk0010
                From 1910 to 1917 - yours. And note that it does not show the damage from the civil war, this is the mortality rate in tsarist times.

                there is no gradation 1910-1917. there graduation is 1910-1926.

                add sacrifices to your GW, your continuous hunger strikes 1917-1926 by 1926, a dumb abortion policy. social policy and the corresponding demographic losses (and this is tens of millions of lives) and you will see what Russia has lost.
                Quote: bk0010
                And how do you explain this mortality in the days of the crushers?

                the fact is that the Kostokhrusty ruled before them. committed a demographic catastrophe for 70 years.

                And the old nation, created by Kostokhrusta, physically cannot give birth to much.
                Quote: bk0010
                And the tundra is still unplowed ... Land that is economically unprofitable to cultivate returned to nature. What are you unhappy with?

                belay lol
                I have never heard such a thing, surprised. Yes! yes

                Now show me WHERE else - in Europe, the USA, Japan, China such valuable resources as arable land are thrown under the wasteland.

                This is exclusively YOUR "achievement" -observing indigenous Russia and abandoned as a result. its resources.
              8. bk0010
                bk0010 16 January 2021 12: 54
                0
                Quote: Olgovich
                add the victims of YOUR GW, YOUR continuous hunger strikes of 1917-1926 by 1926.
                Well, no, the civil war is yours, the whites started it, the Bolsheviks did not resist at all. And hunger strikes are also a consequence of the actions of counter-revolutionaries: they destroyed the economy, they hid and rotted grain.
                Quote: Olgovich
                Now show me WHERE else - in Europe, the USA, Japan, China, they are thrown under such valuable resources as arable land.
                Easy. In the USA, Arizona is unplowed, yes, there is a desert, but this does not bother you! In China, half of the country is empty (look at the population density map) and I'm not talking about mountains, there is not a desert, a steppe, but nevertheless no one cultivates it, since in the presence of the fertile banks of the Yangtze it is not profitable.
              9. Olgovich
                Olgovich 16 January 2021 13: 42
                0
                Quote: bk0010
                Well, no, the civil war is yours, the whites started it, the Bolsheviks did not resist at all.


                Before the thief and the overclocking of the US, there was no GW. It was they who untied her.

                For tens of millions of people who chose the non-Bolshevik government for themselves in the national elections Should not obey the VKppbists, who have done well in the elections, who seized power by force — why on earth? belay Who are they? NOBODY!
                Quote: bk0010
                Easy. In the USA, Arizona is unplowed, yes, there is a desert, but this does not bother you! In China, half of the country is empty (look at the population density map) and I'm not talking about mountains, there is not a desert, a steppe, but nevertheless no one cultivates it, since in the presence of the fertile banks of the Yangtze it is not profitable.

                Do you understand Russian? No.
                AGAIN: WHERE ELSE - in Europe, USA, Japan, China abandoned under the wasteland such valuable resources like arable land... and also meadows, pastures?
                I will remind you again. that under YOU in Russia they were abandoned many million hectares of arable land alone.
              10. bk0010
                bk0010 16 January 2021 13: 53
                0
                Quote: Olgovich
                what are you carrying?!
                Before the thief and the overclocking of the US, there was no GW. It was they who untied her.

                For tens of millions of people who have chosen the non-Bolshevik power for themselves in the national elections should NOT obey the VKPBists who have cheated in the elections, who seized power by force, for what reason? belay Who are they? NOBODY!
                There was no civil war before it began. The whites untied it. How you love to write, which no one has chosen or authorized to do so. The Bolsheviks were supported by hundreds of millions, due to which they won the GV.
                Quote: Olgovich
                many million hectares of arable land alone.
                Here, by the way, about abandoned cities in the states and Europe: https://rg.ru/2013/04/03/detroit.html. About arable land - in England during the time of fencing, most of the arable land was abandoned. Here's about the reduction of arable land in the United States, enjoy: https://www.economicdata.ru/country.php?menu=america-country&cu_id=1&cu_ticker=USA&country_show=statistics&ticker=USA.AG.LND.ARBL.HA
              11. Olgovich
                Olgovich 16 January 2021 15: 09
                0
                Quote: bk0010
                There was no civil war before it began. The whites untied it. How you love to write, which no one has chosen or authorized to do so. The Bolsheviks were supported by hundreds of millions, due to which they won the GV.

                the vkpbists unleashed it.
                Don't you understand Russian?
                Once again: WHY the people, who have chosen the non-Bolshevik government, ..... must submit to the Bolsheviks, who have lost the elections? belay

                NOBODY chose them and commissioned ANYTHING.

                What .... hundreds of millions? fool in the GV took part .... 5% of the country's population.

                In the elections -50%. Got it. no?
                Quote: bk0010
                Here, by the way, about abandoned cities in the states and Europe: https://rg.ru/2013/04/03/detroit.html.

                You compare a root vegetable to a finger: show 50% of the disappeared np in the USA and the EU
                Quote: bk0010
                About arable land - in England during the time of fencing, most of the arable land was abandoned.

                Yeah, i.e. the Bolsheviks plunged Russia into the 17th century - a landmark recognition
                Quote: bk0010
                That's about reduction arable land in the USA, enjoy: https://www.economicdata.ru/country.php?menu=america-country&cu_id=1&cu_ticker=USA&country_show=statistics&ticker=USA.AG.LND.ARBL.HA

                This arable land abandoned under a windbreak and overgrown with forest, as in Russia (since there are NO people to handle)?

                Or is it displayed for another farm?

                The total cropland area of ​​the world increased from 1961 to 2009 on 12% (FAO)
              12. bk0010
                bk0010 16 January 2021 18: 04
                0
                Quote: Olgovich
                the vkpbists unleashed it.
                Why did they need it? They already had power.
                Quote: Olgovich
                Once again: WHY the people, who have chosen the non-Bolshevik government, ..... must submit to the Bolsheviks, who have lost the elections?
                Because nobody submitted to the interim government.
                Quote: Olgovich
                NOBODY chose them and commissioned ANYTHING.
                Tsars have not been elected for 300 years either, but this does not hover you.
                Quote: Olgovich
                What .... hundreds of millions? fool in the GV took part .... 5% of the country's population. In the elections -50%. Got it. no?
                This shot 5%, and everyone took part in the GW. Why not participate in the elections? It's free. But no one went to fight for the chosen ones. Even the deputies themselves simply dispersed, what prevented them from continuing to sit in a different room, besides realizing the senselessness of the process?
                Quote: Olgovich
                You compare a root vegetable to a finger: show 50% of the disappeared np in the USA and the EU
                Not at all, just processes are going on in different countries and at different speeds. In the USA there was no feudalism, there were no ancient settlements, and you have no information on Europe. When there was a transition from feudalism to capitalism, information about the disappearing settlements was not recorded. In addition, during the Thirty Years War there was such devastation that it is difficult to single out among the settlements destroyed by the mercenaries those that were abandoned due to economic reasons.
                Quote: Olgovich
                Yeah, i.e. the Bolsheviks plunged Russia into the 17th century - a landmark recognition
                This is called the transition from subsistence to commodity production. And yes, the Bolsheviks had to do this, the tsar-father (with Stolypin) did not master it.
                Quote: Olgovich
                Is this arable land abandoned under a windbreak and overgrown with forest, as in Russia (because there are NO people to handle)?
                Yes. Overproduction of food products heard? Farmers are paid not to work. They don't work.
                Quote: Olgovich
                Global cropland increased by 1961% between 2009 and 12 (FAO)
                So what? There are more and more blacks, they want to eat, their technologies are not particularly advanced, they have to solve the issue using extensive methods, and not mechanization, agricultural chemicalization and genetic engineering. They have not yet had a green revolution.
              13. Olgovich
                Olgovich 16 January 2021 20: 19
                0
                Quote: bk0010
                Why did they need it? They already had power.

                Where did they ... "have"? belay

                They were not recognized throughout the country. Started GV-read your decrees
                Quote: bk0010
                Because nobody submitted to the interim government.

                what .... VP?

                for those who do not understand Russian again: WHY the people who chose to nationwide elections to the US Non-Bolshevik power, ..... must obey THE LOSER elections to the Bolsheviks?
                Quote: bk0010
                Tsars have not been elected for 300 years either, but this does not hover you.

                1.Choose the Zemsky Sobor - tie yourself a knot.

                2.your yelled about the choice of the people, and it, as you yourself admitted, was not even in sight
                Quote: bk0010
                This is called the transition from subsistence to commodity production. And yes, the Bolsheviks had to do this, the tsar-father (with Stolypin) did not master it.

                lol your illiteracy is simply touching: they did not begin to produce grain anymore, they began to take away more of it: the communist builders caught up with the yield of 1913 after ... forty-three years. In such a simple cannibalistic way, all the clumsy, ignorant and invaders create a "product".
                We just increased the arable land.
                Quote: bk0010
                Yes. Overproduction of food products heard? Farmers are paid not to work. They don't work.

                And production is growing due to intensification.
                In the RSFSR, this did not smell. THIRD and so no crop went under the SNOW, into the mud and rot.

                It is unprofitable for farmers to work - in the Arizona you mentioned there is nothing to water and it is unprofitable to water - water is painfully expensive.

                Growing cities need it, just like land.

                But there IS someone to work with.

                In the rsfsr nothing was needed and no one - no water, no land, no meadows: everything was in abundance, but there were NO people and a devastated virgin land (and this is where only 50 years ago they killed for a piece of land and life was in full swing)

                From one end of the field, they heroically mastered a new arable land-reclamation, felling, chemistry, from the other end -... threw (and more!) Good existing arable land. belay fool
              14. bk0010
                bk0010 17 January 2021 01: 02
                +1
                Quote: Olgovich

                Where did they ... "have"? belay
                They were not recognized throughout the country. Started GV-read your decrees
                Again. Learn materiel: "The triumphal march of Soviet power." Everyone recognized, except for a handful of renegades.
                Quote: Olgovich
                for those who do not understand Russian once again: WHY the people, who have chosen the non-Bolshevik power at the national elections of the US, ..... must submit to the Bolsheviks, who have lost the elections?
                The people did not choose the government, the people elected the deputies of the constituent assembly. None of those who had real power were going to carry out the decisions of the DC, everyone was going to seize power for themselves. Even the deputies of the Constituent Assembly understood the futility of their activities: when they were kicked out of the hall, they dispersed forever.
                And why the people had to submit to the interim government, these usurpers and destroyers of the empire?
                Quote: Olgovich
                1.Choose the Zemsky Sobor - tie yourself a knot.
                The one who was chosen died long ago.
                Quote: Olgovich
                2.your yelled about the choice of the people, and it, as you yourself admitted, was not even in sight
                The people chose the Bolsheviks by supporting them during the Great War, by action, not chatter. Without the help of the people, the crust-baked counter would not have been crushed.
                Quote: Olgovich
                the productivity of 1913, the communist builders caught up already in ... forty-three years
                Yeah, the crystal bakers ravaged the country. And then there were the fascists.
                Quote: Olgovich
                lol your illiteracy is simply touching: they did not begin to produce more grain, they began to take it away more
                No, it is your ignorance that is amazing. This is not about production volumes. Even under the tsar, a problem arose due to the fact that the capacity of the internal market is negligible (and they are not allowed to enter the external market). The peasants themselves ate almost the entire bread they produced; there was not much left for sale. And they made most of the things they needed themselves. In short, there is no money. And since there is no money, then there is nothing to raise productivity. Capitalism cannot be resisted with such a market. Under the king, this problem could not be solved. The Bolsheviks solved this problem (MTS and agronomists were sent to the collective farms, they bought a lot of grain, at fixed purchase prices, as a result, the collective farms had money). Marketability is guaranteed.
                Quote: Olgovich
                In the RSFSR, this did not smell. THIRD and so no crop went under the SNOW, into the mud and rot.
                Well, yes, hundreds of thousands of tractors and combines were produced, huge enterprises for the production of fertilizers worked, research institutes were developing new varieties and breeds, but no one used this, yeah. Don't talk nonsense. And the fact that a third of the harvest went under the snow is a question for the peasants.
                Quote: Olgovich
                But there IS someone to work with. In the rsfsr, nothing was needed and no one - no water, no land, no meadows: everything was in abundance, but there were NO people and a devastated virgin land (and this is where only 50 years ago they killed for a piece of land and life was boiling)
                And we had. A lot, with a margin. Now there are fewer peasants, and the same amount of grain is produced. In the crisp-bakery times, the peasant himself did not have enough grain for food (there were a lot of people, and there was not enough land in the central provinces), and in the USSR there was no such "smell" of intensification that not only peasants and townspeople had enough, but the land began to be freed.
                Quote: Olgovich
                From one end of the field, they heroically mastered a new arable land-reclamation, felling, chemistry, from the other end -... threw (and more!) Good existing arable land. belay
                I see you are a great agricultural specialist. Does it not occur to you that if they did it, then it was necessary?
              15. Olgovich
                Olgovich 17 January 2021 14: 06
                0
                Quote: bk0010
                Again. Learn materiel: "The triumphal march of Soviet power." Everyone recognized, except for a handful of renegades.

                This false agitation goes into a tube and so on:

                Russia is 90% PEASANT country.

                And in more than half, out of 488 peasant soviets, the Bolsheviks were never heard of, and in the rest they are in the overwhelming MINORITY.

                Even sadder in popularly selected local councils.

                Bunch of deserter bandits with rifles overthrew the legitimate popular government
                Quote: bk0010
                This is not about production volumes.

                And where do I have about the "volumes" of production?
                I have about the volume of robbery of grain from peasants
                Quote: bk0010
                ... In short, there is no money.

                What is money, the peasants have forgotten in your presence. Working for sticks and payments in kind.
                Quote: bk0010
                ... With such a market capitalism can't stand. . The Bolsheviks solved this problem (MTS and agronomists were sent to the collective farms, they bought a lot of grain, at fixed purchase prices, as a result the collective farms had money). Marketability is guaranteed.

                Those. communists ... built capitalism? What's wrong with you? belay lol

                We took a lot of grain and almost is freeby selling it ten times more expensive, plunging the collective farms into endless bondage for infinitely expensive goods, loans and borrowings.

                So the bandit, having taken away the property from the victim, sells this "product".
                Quote: bk0010
                Yes, hundreds of thousands of tractors and combines were produced, huge enterprises for the production of fertilizers worked, research institutes were developing new varieties and breeds, but no one used this, yeah.

                Huge enterprises with unimaginable marriage in expensive IMPOSED tractors and fertilizers, etc.
                Quote: bk0010
                And the fact that a third of the harvest went under the snow is a question for the peasants.

                In a normal country (for example, Russia), this was impossible to imagine. But with you all was all right.
                Quote: bk0010
                And we had. A lot, with a margin.

                Don't talk nonsense: Stalin already in the 1930s spoke of a shortage of workers everywhere. And in the 40s, 50s, ALL agricultural enterprises in Russia shouted about the shortage of labor, and more and more.

                Statement on the agricultural Pskov oblast committee in the mid-1950s: "At such a rate of population decline, in 10 years SOMEONE will work."
                Quote: bk0010
                and in the USSR intensification "did not smell" so much that not only the peasants and the townspeople had enough, but the land began to be liberated.

                I see you, again it hasn’t come to light that the yield of grain / ha in 1913 your tinsifiers "heroically" barely caught up with in 1956, putting in millions.
                Cut yourself a bundle about "enough": your consumption level of 1913 barely caught up in the same 40 years.

                Quote: bk0010
                but still earth free became.

                From people freed (fled from your slave paradise wherever they looked), from work, grooming and prosperity of the territory.

                Despite the fact that the territories of the Non-Black Earth Region themselves are FABULOUS for life, in contrast to the Arizona desert
                Quote: bk0010
                I see you are a great agricultural specialist. Does it not occur to you that if they did it, then it was necessary?

                nonsense: both the peasants wrote about this abnormality, and the scientists wrote, and the party members, just what the authorities did not know after the catastrophe they created, they put everything off for later and rushed from one extreme to another:.

                In the RSFSR in virgin lands heroically reclaimed 16 million hectares of virgin lands.
                At the same time, heroically ... they abandoned 13 million hectares of existing agricultural land. fool

                Heroically reclaimed lands ...and 40% remained unprocessed.
                Supply of livestock feed ...50% , the third is a deadweight from HUNGER.

                "Intensifiers" ...... angry ,
              16. bk0010
                bk0010 17 January 2021 17: 11
                0
                Quote: Olgovich
                Bunch of deserter bandits with rifles overthrew the legitimate popular government
                And who is your "legitimate" power? King? Provisional government? Atamans? You have this false propaganda.
                Quote: Olgovich
                What is money, the peasants have forgotten in your presence. Working for sticks and payments in kind.
                Well, yes, there were no millionaire collective farms ...
                Quote: Olgovich
                Those. communists ... built capitalism? What's wrong with you? belay lol
                Socialism. With him, money is also important.
                Quote: Olgovich
                The grain was taken a lot and almost free, selling it ten times more expensive, plunging the collective farms into endless bondage for infinitely expensive goods, loans and borrowings.
                What are you all about tsarism, but the provisional appropriation of the provisional government ... I'm talking about later times. When collective farms received wide flows of machinery, fertilizers, goods that could not be bought in the city, and debts were written off.
                Quote: Olgovich
                In a normal country (for example, Russia), this was impossible to imagine. But with you all was all right.
                Yah? Remember the Great Depression. And they poured out the milk and poured the bread. And it didn't go under the snow because there is not much snow there.
                Quote: Olgovich
                And in the 40s, 50s, ALL agricultural enterprises in Russia shouted about the shortage of labor, and more and more.
                This is because the ones that weren't working.
                Quote: Olgovich
                Despite the fact that the territories of the Non-Black Earth Region themselves are FABULOUS for life, in contrast to the Arizona desert
                So the black earth is even better: it is warmer and grows ever thicker.
                Quote: Olgovich
                Heroically reclaimed land ... 40% left uncultivated.
                Fodder provision for livestock .... 50%, a third of the death rate.
                These are the peasants in the USSR. Instead of stocking up feed, everyone waited for the feed center to send.
              17. Olgovich
                Olgovich 17 January 2021 22: 36
                -1
                Quote: bk0010
                And who is your "legitimate" power? King? Provisional government? Atamans? You have this false propaganda.

                remember: the power of the US (before him the VP) was the only one legal and legitimate: the Emperors called for submission to them. The people chose the power of the US.
                Quote: bk0010
                Well, yes, there were no millionaire collective farms ...

                They did not define the face: in the 1930s, 40% of collective farms did not pay money at all.

                The peasant's income is only 15% determined by his hard labor on the collective farm, and his main income isthis is work at a medical facility and, in part, a kind of fishing.
                And yes: it was miserable (in terms of area) health care facilities that provided 50-80% of livestock production, etc., and not ... collective farms. The productivity of the health care facility was TWENTY TIMES higher than that of the collective farm.
                Quote: bk0010
                Socialism. With him, money is also important.

                Therefore, the peasants have forgotten them in your presence.
                Quote: bk0010
                What are you all about tsarism, but the provisional appropriation of the provisional government ... I'm talking about later times. When collective farms received wide flows of machinery, fertilizers, goods that could not be bought in the city, and debts were written off.

                And I’m talking about them: they cleaned up everything for a penny, including the seed, and then gave the same grain back at an exorbitant price, already in .... a loan.

                For those wild prices for goods, etc., the peasants would have shoved those "goods" back with great pleasure.

                Peasants, remember, "paid Tribute" to the authorities (Stalin)

                All of them are now forever debtors
                Quote: bk0010
                This is because the ones that weren't working.

                THERE IS NO ONE to work, because everyone RUNNING from that hopeless hopeless collective farm today

                Only a turchok will work for those ridiculous "money" that were paid to the peasants for hard labor, unbearable standards and in those inhuman working conditions.
                Quote: bk0010
                So the black earth is even better: it is warmer and grows ever thicker.

                And they abandoned there too, only a little later
                Quote: bk0010
                These are the peasants in the USSR. Instead of stocking up feed, everyone waited for the feed center to send.

                Yes, you didn’t get the people, you offended such guardians about their welfare ...

                There was SOMEONE to wait. And the rest had everything: you created such a system.

                You read more, otherwise it's completely ridiculous: HALF of the meadows were abandoned by 1989, for there is SOMEONE to mow. Tens of millions of centners of the most valuable feed went under the snow.

                And yes, the kodkhozniks themselves, for themselves, were not allowed to mow there or demanded to give 50-80% of the mowed. Who needs it?

                But it is necessary to feed the cows with something, so they planted fodder crops instead of grain, bought compound feed.

                In the RSFSR in virgin lands heroically reclaimed 16 million hectares of virgin lands.
                At the same time, heroically ... they abandoned 13 million hectares of existing agricultural land. fool

                Heroically reclaimed land ... 40% left uncultivated.
                Fodder provision for livestock .... 50%, a third of the death rate.

                Theater of the absurd.
              18. bk0010
                bk0010 18 January 2021 20: 24
                +1
                Quote: Olgovich
                remember: the power of the US (before him the VP) was the only one legal and legitimate: the Emperors called for submission to them. The people chose the power of the US.
                Remember, DC was not power. The US had to decide on the type of power, no more
                Quote: Olgovich
                The productivity of the health care facility was TWENTY TIMES higher than that of the collective farm.
                Do you have more questions about the reasons why the peasants earned little on collective farms?
                Quote: Olgovich
                Peasants, remember, "paid Tribute" to the authorities (Stalin)
                What do you remember? What (Stalin)? Where did you get this nonsense?
                Quote: Olgovich

                Only a turchok will work for those ridiculous "money" that were paid to the peasants for hard labor, unbearable standards and in those inhuman working conditions.
                Now, you begin to understand! And then you are outraged that the peasants were transported to where there were more decent conditions.
                Quote: Olgovich
                And they abandoned there too, only a little later
                Yah? And where exactly?
                Quote: Olgovich
                Heroically reclaimed land ... 40% left uncultivated.
                Fodder provision for livestock .... 50%, a third of the death rate.
                That is, the whole country tried for the peasants, but they ruined and profited everything?
              19. Olgovich
                Olgovich 19 January 2021 07: 53
                -2
                Quote: bk0010
                Remember, DC was not power. The US had to decide on the type of power, no more

                remember: the US is one of the branches of power, the legislative, which determined by status. and future executive
                Quote: bk0010
                Do you have more questions about the reasons why the peasants earned little on collective farms?

                Slave labor is not productive, finally?
                Quote: bk0010
                What do you remember? What (Stalin)? Where did you get this nonsense?

                from his speech this "nonsense", an ignoramus.
                Then they did not stand on ceremony with the defeated.
                Quote: bk0010
                Now, you begin to understand! And then you are outraged that the peasants were transported to where there were more decent conditions.

                The overwhelming majority did not go to "decent" (in fact, ugly and absolutely insufficient) conditions, the center of the estates did not go, but rushed from the villages destroyed by yours to the cities.
                Quote: bk0010
                well? And where exactly?

                belay In the black earth.
                Quote: bk0010
                That is, the whole country tried for the peasants, but they ruined and profited everything?

                We tried the same as "two from the casket, the same from the face": a lot of useless, stupid, but abundant work, thrown out money and - no result: the ameliorators dug where it was convenient for them to dig a ditch (plan), and not where the collective farms needed, they dug ugly in quality, everything collapsed very quickly and it was possible to maintain drains absolutely no one: everyone was on it, yes. The same with chemistry: the aviators burned out shrubs and forests for arable land with chemistry, and what will not grow there for another ten years according to them: they fulfilled the plan.

                The cows were brought according to the plan, but there was no feed for them, the plan. Etc.

                You look at the cartoon, the whole essence of the "work" is captured there very clearly.
              20. bk0010
                bk0010 19 January 2021 20: 26
                0
                Quote: Olgovich
                from his speech this "nonsense", an ignoramus.
                Began to be rude. So we will stop the discussion.
  • Sugar Honeyovich
    Sugar Honeyovich 9 January 2021 15: 32
    +3
    quote = Olgovich] True, the only one [/ quote]
    Wrong. Not the only one.
    [quote = Olgovich] Freedom is not normal for those born as slaves [/ quote]
    You know better - everyone judges by himself. But these signs, as well as congratulatory telegrams to the enemy on the occasion of the victory over his army, are clearly not an indicator of freedom. It's called differently.
    Do you respect Stalin? And he said the following: "... the tsarist government comes up with a 'new' means to strengthen its throne. It sows enmity between the nationalities of Russia, it sets them against each other, ... it arranges pogroms of Jews, Armenians, etc. And all this in order to separate the nationalities of Russia from each other with a fratricidal war and, having weakened them, easily defeat each separately! " Those. in R. and. there was a fratricidal civil war. And the king and his entourage unleashed it! And you here crucify: "Before the thief was not, before the thief was not." fool
    [quote = Olgovich] Wow, "manual"! [/ quote]
    Just think. Our kings have had worse. Those who were not immediately strangled by the inner circle could ascertain around (around!) CHARACTER and DECEPTION. soldier
    1. Olgovich
      Olgovich 9 January 2021 20: 25
      -8
      Quote: Sahar Medovich
      Those. in R. and. there was a fratricidal civil war. And the king and his entourage unleashed it!

      The GW began in November 1917, read the so-called. "decrees" of the government council.
      Quote: Sahar Medovich
      Those who were not immediately strangled by the surrounding environment could ascertain all around (around!)

      belay fool lol
      WHERE in Russia (in the world), in peacetime it was like this:
      a). Military-fascist conspiracy in the Red Army - Tukhachevsky, Gamarnik, Yakir, Uborevich, Kork, Eideman and others.

      b). Right-fascist conspiracy in the NKVDled by Yagoda.

      at). Kremlin right-fascist group of conspirators, led by Yenukidze.

      d). The largest spy organization "POV

      spies turned out ... ALL the first top leadership of the Bolshevik country (except for Stalin): ALL the first composition of the Council of People's Commissars, ALL the first Politburo of the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party, who replaced Lenin as the USSR Presidential Council, the supreme leader and chief of the General Staff of the Red Army, their deputies, people's commissars, 78% of the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party of the 17th YPR Congress, etc.

      Spies were also ... the NKVD Commissars themselves, who caught ... spies, who, in turn, caught spies who also caught spies! belay request
      You are not confused, are you? belay
      1. Sugar Honeyovich
        Sugar Honeyovich 10 January 2021 09: 43
        +1
        Quote: Olgovich
        The GW began in November 1917, read the so-called. "decrees" of the government council.

        The Civil War began in August 1917, and Kornilov unleashed it. Read the liberal press. And even earlier it was untied by the king. Read Stalin.
        Quote: Olgovich
        WHERE in Russia (in the world), in peacetime it was like this:
        a). Military fascist conspiracy

        Before that there were no fascist ones, because there was no fascism itself. And there were conspiracies, both in war and in peacetime. With coups and murders of rulers who were sworn allegiance.
        Quote: Olgovich
        spies turned out to be ... ALL first top management

        In other countries, high-ranking officials turned out to be communist spies. That, we note, did not happen in the past. This is the selyavi drinks
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 10 January 2021 11: 43
          -2
          Quote: Sahar Medovich
          The Civil War began in August 1917, and Kornilov unleashed it. Read the liberal press. And even earlier it was untied by the king. Read Stalin.

          Read the decrees of the authorities and foreign tourists, where the GV is mentioned, and not your far-fetched ears
          Quote: Sahar Medovich
          Before that there were no fascist ones, because there was no fascism itself. And there were conspiracies, both in war and in peacetime. With coups and murders of rulers who were sworn allegiance.

          THIS has never happened before anywhere, remember again: a).
          Military-fascist conspiracy in the Red Army - Tukhachevsky, Gamarnik, Yakir, Uborevich, Kork, Eideman and others.

          b). Right-fascist conspiracy in the NKVD
          led by Yagoda.

          at). Kremlin right-fascist a group of conspirators, led by Yenukidze.
          Quote: Sahar Medovich
          In other countries, high-ranking officials turned out to be communist spies. What, we note, did not happen in the past

          Before ... there were no spies in the world ?! belay lol fool

          But they were NOT SPIES ANYWHERE - almost all the top leadership of the country, the army, the security services, all the ministries, departments, tribunals, parliament, etc.

          once again, give examples. again... lol you can not? lol .
          1. Sugar Honeyovich
            Sugar Honeyovich 10 January 2021 12: 00
            +1
            Quote: Olgovich
            Read the decrees of YOUR so-called. "authorities"

            Read more documents from different political directions, not just one. And don't suck nonsense out of your fingers.
            Quote: Olgovich
            Before ... there were no spies in the world ?!

            There were no communist and fascist ones. There were others.
            Quote: Olgovich
            But they were NOT SPIES ANYWHERE - almost all the top leadership of the country, the army, the security service, all the ministries, departments, tbrems, parliament

            What a conversation! Of course they weren't spies! They were representatives of interests, and in the parliament they were called some "Rzhechi" or Sweden "French party", "Russian party", "English", etc. etc. Which "party" gets more money from the patron, that is the power. And they weren't spies. How can you, sir! bully
            Is it true that Kekkonen (the president!) Was a KGB agent? Were there many Stasi agents in the government and special services of the FRG?
          2. Olgovich
            Olgovich 11 January 2021 10: 37
            -2
            Quote: Sahar Medovich
            Read More application documents different political directions, not just one. And don't suck nonsense out of your fingers.

            decrees are documents, not BATTLES in the form of stupid articles that you suck out of your finger lol


            Quote: Sahar Medovich
            Of course they weren't spies! They were representatives of interests
            \

            Those. recognized spy... transferring all the plans of the Red Army to Germany, Tukhachevsky, etc. now ...representatives of interests -by the definition of the Bolsheviks? belay lol laughing What is a SPY, eh? Where else will you get out, because ABSURDY you have already reached lol

            Stalin for you:
            For plausibility in the West, these crooks from the Western European civilized countries are called informants, and we know in Russian that this is just a spy.
            yes
            Stalin: During the period after the June Plenum (meaning the Plenum of the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks, which took place on June 23-29, 1937 ..), several members of the Central Committee left and were arrested before the present Plenum: Zelensky turned out to be a tsarist guard, Lebed, Nosov, Pyatnitsky , Khatayevich, Ikramov, Krinitsky, Vareikis - 8 people. After examining all the materials, checking the materials, it turned out that these people, they are enemies of the people.

            If there are no questions, I would suggest taking note of this message.

            Voices: Right. Take into account.

            Stalin., October 1937: From candidates for members of the Central Committee for the same period dropped out, arrested - 16 people: Grinko, Lyubchenko - shot himself, Eremin, Deribas - Japanese spy turned out to be Demchenko, Kalygina, Semenov, Serebrovsky - turned out to be a spy, Shubrikov, Gryadinsky, Sarkisov, Bykin, Rosengolts - he turned out to be a German, British and Japanese spy.

            Vote. Whoa!

            Stalin. Lepa, Gikalo and Ptukha - 16 people.

            Vote. Wow!

            Wow !!
            Stalin, 1937: "Trotsky, Rykov, Bukharin, Yenukidze, Karakhan, Rudzutak, Yagoda, Tukhachevsky, Yakir, Uborevich, Kork, Eideman, Gamarnik. Of these, 10 people - spies. Do sabotage, crashesso that the Japanese and Germans believe me, Trotsky
            Do you remember Radek's testimony, do you remember Livshits's testimony, do you remember Sokolnikov's testimony - gave information. This is espionage.

            Yenukidze and Karakhan, both were spiesand. Karakhan since 1927 and since 1927 - Yenukidze. Uborevich, especially Yakir, Tukhachevsky - were engaged in a systematic information from the German General Staff.

            . Yagoda is a spy and bred spies in his GPU. Guy - nGerman-Japanese spy... He admitted it himself. These people are recognized. This is what he did to Volovich - spy german, he himself admits. This is what he did to Pauker - spy germanth,
            ... Karakhan is a German spy. Eidemann - German spy

            Now sing about the Stasi lol
          3. Sugar Honeyovich
            Sugar Honeyovich 11 January 2021 17: 08
            0
            Quote: Olgovich
            decrees are documents

            Decrees are documents. But documents are not just decrees. Remove the eyecups and expand the range of information.
            Quote: Olgovich
            Now sing about the Stasi

            That is, in essence, you have nothing to say. Yes, you have reached the absurdity long ago and continue to multiply it.
          4. Olgovich
            Olgovich 11 January 2021 19: 50
            -1
            Quote: Sahar Medovich
            Decreesare documents. But documents are not just decrees. Remove the eyecups and expand the range of information.

            Yes, these are documents Your idols with the confessions of GV.

            And stupid articles, no: pierce your eyecup, finally!
            Quote: Sahar Medovich
            That is, in essence, you have nothing to say. Yes, you have reached the absurdity long ago and continue to multiply it.

            You are all in lol absurdity lol tumbled down: they could not show WHERE in the world almost all the top leadership - the country, the party, the army, the security service, all the ministries, departments, parliament, etc. spies all the women of the world.
            how did you call them there in a new way - "agents of influence"? lol Transmitting the highest plans of the Red Army ....- Germany? fool lol

            and yes, the COURT called them spies!

            Stalin told you about this, but it didn't reach you (as always):
            For plausibility in the West, these crooks from Western European civilized countries are called informers, and we know in Russian that it's just a spy.

            Tie yourself in a knot (for memory) lol
          5. Sugar Honeyovich
            Sugar Honeyovich 12 January 2021 02: 57
            -1
            Quote: Olgovich
            documents of your idols with GV confessions.

            Unleashed by your idols. Against my people.
            Quote: Olgovich
            how did you call them there in a new way - "agents of influence"?

            a) Learn to read Russian words; b) stop lying so brainlessly.
          6. Olgovich
            Olgovich 12 January 2021 09: 13
            0
            Quote: Sahar Medovich
            Unleashed by your idols. Against my people.

            to the thief, no guards.

            The thief and the dispersal of the nationwide CA, who had been cheated at the elections, unleashed the GV.
            Quote: Sahar Medovich
            a) Learn to read Russian words; b) stop lying so brainlessly.

            you do not have Russian speech, but there is one incoherent and meaningless picking of words. lol

            You were all absurd: and could not show WHERE in the world almost all the top leadership of the country, the party, the army, the security service, all ministries, departments, parliament, etc., etc. spies of all the women of the world.

            Shame ....
            lol
          7. Sugar Honeyovich
            Sugar Honeyovich 12 January 2021 09: 54
            -1
            Quote: Olgovich
            to the thief, no guards.

            A bunch of. Only on a smaller scale.
            Quote: Olgovich
            could not show

            I just asked a couple of questions with subtext - and you are in the deepest knockout. It is simply dangerous to give more evidence. For Your health. Sincere.
          8. aybolyt678
            aybolyt678 13 January 2021 23: 30
            0
            Quote: Sahar Medovich
            I just asked a couple of questions with subtext - and you are in the deepest knockout.

            He will not notice the subtext .. Olgovich is an ardent, so to speak, communistophobe who donned the guise of a Slavophile. He does not understand that the Soviet period of Russia is also Russia, He does not notice that Stalin diligently destroyed those very spies, he yells about this like the last liberal ... and crap, crap, crap ... But he is right about spies in power ... The agents of influence introduced since the days of Khrushch rule Russia. His goal, a manic idea - to tarnish the history of the USSR
          9. Sugar Honeyovich
            Sugar Honeyovich 14 January 2021 04: 22
            0
            It's right. Because of the impotent anger of his statements, not only are they stupidly deceitful, they still often do not correspond to elementary (at the level of primary grades) knowledge, and sometimes even to common sense.
          10. Olgovich
            Olgovich 14 January 2021 08: 55
            0
            Quote: aybolyt678
            he will not notice the subtext ..

            what is the "subtext" in the absurd clumsy wretched set of letters?
            Quote: aybolyt678
            Olgovich is an ardent, so to speak, communistophobe who donned the guise of a Slavophile

            ... I love everyone absolutely.

            Quote: aybolyt678
            He does not understand that the Soviet period of Russia is also Russia,

            Surely, but even him she endured
            Quote: aybolyt678
            He does not notice that Stalin diligently destroyed those very spies, he yells about it like the last liberal ... and crap, crap, crap ...

            give the facts of "disgusting". I am giving the FACTS. I propose to evaluate from the point of view of common sense: it is normal that almost all the top leadership - the country, the party, the army, the security service, all ministries, departments, parliament, etc., etc., turned out to be spies of all the women in the world (and more than once, see . the leadership of the NKVD-FOUR consecutive people's commissar-spies)?

            Quote: aybolyt678
            The agents of influence, introduced since the days of Khrushch, rule Russia.

            give them by surname. At the same time, their biographies of education in the system of the Communist Party.
            Or who raised them?
            Quote: aybolyt678
            His goal, a manic idea - to tarnish the history of the USSR

            facts do not blacken. do not whiten. they create a REAL look.
            You refute, and I agree - if you can
          11. aybolyt678
            aybolyt678 14 January 2021 11: 00
            0
            Quote: Olgovich
            You refute, and I agree - if you can

            How flirtatious you are! (I don't need someone else's truth to take the position) lol Is it weak for you to draw analogies between the current government, the then Soviet government and the government at all times? When did people capable of self-sacrifice come to power? ideological? out of love for people? so that people's happiness is an idea? Politics is the art of betrayal, and appropriate people go there and only the very top go there, they walk over the bones of competitors ...
            and the goal of these people is power and the corresponding dividends, the instinct of domination of a disguised pervert (like Yezhov for example) demanded satisfaction by personally torturing people in cells ..
            So the question is: answer the selected text?
          12. Olgovich
            Olgovich 14 January 2021 11: 53
            0
            Quote: aybolyt678
            How flirtatious you are! (I don't need someone else's truth to take the position)

            There is only one nonsense, and it is she who determines the position.
            Quote: aybolyt678
            When they came to power people capable of self-sacrifice? ideological? out of love for people? so that people's happiness is an idea?

            who there "sacrificed" themselves from the upper ones in the 1930s? Yagoda, Yezhov, etc.? What are you speaking about?! belay

            what national "happiness", when, what "ideas", what are you talking about? belay
          13. aybolyt678
            aybolyt678 14 January 2021 13: 45
            0
            the truth is only one and it is she
            true? one? wassat
            Quote: Olgovich
            who there "sacrificed" themselves from the upper ones in the 1930s? Yagoda, Yezhov, etc.? What are you speaking about?!

            no. Who is in power at all, no matter which country, was completely devoted to the people?
      2. aybolyt678
        aybolyt678 14 January 2021 13: 54
        0
        Quote: Olgovich
        I love everyone absolutely

        good
        love is measured by the measure of forgiveness
        the pain of farewell
        and hatred by the power of that disgust
        with which you remember your promises ???
  • Olgovich
    Olgovich 14 January 2021 08: 41
    0
    Quote: Sahar Medovich
    A bunch of. Only on a smaller scale.

    none, see their own
    Quote: Sahar Medovich
    I just asked a couple of questions with subtext - and you are in the deepest knockout.

    lol this is an illusion of excited imagination
    Quote: Sahar Medovich
    Your health. Sincere.

    Answer the question !: WHERE in the world is almost all top management- countries, parties, armies, security services, all ministries, departments, parliament, etc., etc. spies all the women of the world?

    again not ... lol can lol ?
  • Sugar Honeyovich
    Sugar Honeyovich 14 January 2021 09: 43
    0
    Quote: Olgovich
    none, see their own

    Plenty - see Them. Or others - it's the same there.
     
    Quote: Olgovich
    this is an illusion of excited imagination

    Real fact. Perceived by some as an illusion due to agitated imagination. wassat
    Quote: Olgovich
    Answer the question!

    First, you answer mine. Or ... can't you? laughing
  • Olgovich
    Olgovich 14 January 2021 11: 30
    0
    Quote: Sahar Medovich
    Plenty - see Them. Or others - it's the same there.

    None, see. in the same place.
    Quote: Sahar Medovich
    Real fact. Perceived by some as an illusion due to agitated imagination

    Yes, it is a real fact of sweet illusions perceiving as a fact, due to the agitated imagination of agitated "health."
    Quote: Sahar Medovich
    First you answer my

    So .... not what to answer, what's wrong with you? fool
    What are the "questions"?

    Answering the question: WHERE in the world is almost all the top leadership - the country, the party, the army, the security service, all ministries, departments, parliament, etc., etc. turned out to be spies of all the women in the world?

    Let me remind you - FOUR People's Commissars of State Security in a row - ... spies - a fact established by the COURT and not only spies, but also oh-she-she-what (according to the Soviet prosecution)
  • aybolyt678
    aybolyt678 14 January 2021 14: 07
    0
    can I go for Medovich?
    Quote: Olgovich
    Answering the question: WHERE in the world is almost all the top leadership - the country, the party, the army, the security service, all ministries, departments, parliament, etc., etc. turned out to be spies of all the women in the world?

    Let me remind you - FOUR People's Commissars of State Security in a row - ... spies - a fact established by the COURT and not only spies, but also oh-she-she-what (according to the Soviet prosecution)

    I'm afraid one of these countries is the USSR belay
  • Olgovich
    Olgovich 14 January 2021 14: 42
    0
    Quote: aybolyt678
    can I go for Medovich?
    Quote: Olgovich
    Answering the question: WHERE in the world is almost all the top leadership - the country, the party, the army, the security service, all ministries, departments, parliament, etc., etc. turned out to be spies of all the women in the world?

    Let me remind you - FOUR People's Commissars of State Security in a row - ... spies - a fact established by the COURT and not only spies, but also oh-she-she-what (according to the Soviet prosecution)

    I'm afraid one of these countries is the USSR belay

    only one
  • aybolyt678
    aybolyt678 14 January 2021 15: 03
    0
    Quote: Olgovich
    only one

    no, another such country is the Russian Federation. It legalized spies. Consensus?
  • Olgovich
    Olgovich 14 January 2021 17: 31
    0
    Quote: aybolyt678
    no, another such country is the Russian Federation. It legalized spies. Consensus?

    belay lol laughing
    decisions of the courts-on the barrel! See court decisions 1936-1953

    Otherwise it slander and slander.

    And yes. are you not a spy? No.
  • aybolyt678
    aybolyt678 14 January 2021 19: 54
    0
    Quote: Olgovich
    decisions of the courts-on the barrel! See court decisions 1936-1953

    So, I don’t understand, is it good or bad that spies are detected? so good for me
  • Olgovich
    Olgovich 15 January 2021 07: 51
    0
    Quote: aybolyt678
    So, I don’t understand, is it good or bad that spies are detected? so good for me

    Such a number speaks of great ill health.
    Quote: aybolyt678
    Quote: Olgovich
    And yes. are you not a spy?

    I am a citizen interested in the criteria for the development of society

    You did not answer the question. And this is the root of the problem.
    Quote: aybolyt678
    your negative criteria are completely unacceptable to me because Bolshevism had many good things.

    The life of every person is the greatest value, his right to life is sacred - this is my criterion. Tens of millions were deprived of it - does not it reach?
  • aybolyt678
    aybolyt678 15 January 2021 08: 30
    +1
    Quote: Olgovich
    You did not answer the question. And this is the root of the problem.

    I'm not a spy !!! but you - a question? for to screw up the history of the country means to sow disrespect for the ancestors, it means to lose respect for oneself. The liberals also began perestroika with history, with Solzhenitsyn, and successfully carried out it.
    Quote: Olgovich
    his right to life is sacred - that's my criterion.

    so it is necessary to fight for the right of the living to live and not to stigmatize the convicted and executed people's commissars-spies in the fact that they once ruined millions.
  • Olgovich
    Olgovich 15 January 2021 10: 11
    -1
    Quote: aybolyt678
    I'm not a spy !!!

    Prove it, I don't believe it.
    Quote: aybolyt678
    but you - a question? for to screw up the history of the country means to sow disrespect for the ancestors, means to lose self-respect.

    it is you who grudge her, your deep ignorance and unwillingness to know her. thus showing disrespect for the memory of ancestors and victims
    Quote: aybolyt678
    The liberals also began perestroika with history.

    live in a lie, it is convenient for you.
    Quote: aybolyt678
    so it is necessary to fight for the right of the living to live and not to stigmatize the convicted and executed people's commissars-spies in the fact that they once ruined millions

    and the dead did not want to live?

    Branded them by the Soviet COURT, if it did not come.
  • aybolyt678
    aybolyt678 14 January 2021 23: 40
    0
    Quote: Olgovich
    And yes. are you not a spy?

    I am a citizen who is interested in the criteria for the development of society. What is development in general? your negative criteria are completely unacceptable to me because Bolshevism had many good things.
    They lost only because they officially believed that everyone is born equal, but in fact everyone is born different. And the scum rules in this world. Once in the Soviet system of government, they lied, dodged, but were forced to follow certain rules, perform rituals. Sometimes they were identified and shot, because being a scumbag is unworthy of the title of a Soviet person with a position. The beastly principle in man has won and we are now held hostage by the wealthy, something like that. I would like to come up with a perfect social system.
  • Sugar Honeyovich
    Sugar Honeyovich 14 January 2021 14: 46
    0
    Quote: Olgovich
    None, see. in the same place.

    A bunch of. See many sources.
    Quote: Olgovich
    So .... not what to answer, what's wrong with you?
    What are the "questions"?

    The above, posed sharply, competently and on the topic. Against whom you are clearly powerless. tongue
  • Olgovich
    Olgovich 14 January 2021 17: 29
    0
    Quote: Sahar Medovich
    A bunch of. See many sources.

    not a single example from you of this stupid set.

    and yes-learn-what is GW.
    Quote: Sahar Medovich

    The above, posed sharply, competently and on the topic. Against whom you are clearly powerless

    there is NOT a single one, and only "posed sharply, competently and on the topic" -in general nonsense, yes.

    But this one has already been repeated 6 six times, and you all ... do not "see" it.
    because no answer lol can lol : where in the world is almost all the top management of the country,. turned out to be spies of all the women of the world?

    Let me remind you - FOUR People's Commissars of State Security in a row - ... spies - a fact established by the COURT and not only spies, but also oh-she-she-what (according to the Soviet prosecution)

    weak? wink
  • Sugar Honeyovich
    Sugar Honeyovich 14 January 2021 18: 30
    0
    Quote: Olgovich
    not a single example from you of this stupid set.

    There are a lot of examples in history and from me in I.C.
    Quote: Olgovich
    this one has already been repeated 6 six times, and you all ... do not "see" it.

    I see perfectly and gave answers. And from you, except for the boring "no" really nothing lol The truth is, you are WEAK.
  • Foul skeptic
    Foul skeptic 14 January 2021 17: 58
    0
    Answer the question !: WHERE in the world did almost all the top leadership - the country, the party, the army, the security service, all ministries, departments, parliament, etc., turn out to be spies of all the women in the world?

    Hello, Andrey.
    Please tell me, what will the answer to this question give you? Absolutely nothing.
    And, by the way, the political struggle in the First French Republic was such that it would give odds to what was happening in our country. There is nothing new under the sun.
  • Olgovich
    Olgovich 14 January 2021 19: 46
    0
    Quote: Nefarious skeptic
    Hello, Andrey.

    Hello. Timur.
    Quote: Nefarious skeptic
    Please tell me, what will the answer to this question give you? Absolutely nothing.

    you're right. must stop.
    Quote: Nefarious skeptic
    And, by the way, the political struggle in the First French Republic was such that it would give odds to what was happening in our country. There is nothing new under the sun.

    It won't - I've already figured it out ...
  • Foul skeptic
    Foul skeptic 15 January 2021 11: 49
    0
    It won't - I've already figured it out ...

    I am not talking about the number, but about the course of internal party squabbles and the solutions used to fight opponents.
    I didn't even think to argue about the number.
    PS It does not make sense to express everything in quantitative terms.
    PPS It may seem surprising, but the theme of "German spies", oddly enough, is close for both periods mentioned. That's why I decided to write the previous message because this moment seemed funny to me. The fact is that the emigrated ultra-royalists settled in the town of Koblenz. That was the reason for the search for a "German trace" in mutual accusations.
  • aybolyt678
    aybolyt678 14 January 2021 07: 53
    0
    Quote: Olgovich
    to the thief, no guards.

    What do you think about January 9, 1905, isn't it a Guards ??
  • Olgovich
    Olgovich 14 January 2021 10: 01
    -1
    Quote: aybolyt678
    What do you think about January 9, 1905, isn't it a Guards ??

    memorize
    Civil war is the most acute form of resolving the accumulated social contradictions within the state, which manifests itself in the form of a large-scale armed confrontation between organized groups.
    The aim of the parties is to seize power in a country or in a particular region

    E.G. Panfilov. Civil War. Great Soviet Encyclopedia: In 30 volumes - M .: "Soviet Encyclopedia", 1969-1978.

    do you believe in a conscience?

    and you and the battle of Voronya Slobodka are GV ..... lol
  • aybolyt678
    aybolyt678 14 January 2021 11: 38
    +1
    Wow! fellow Great Soviet Encyclopedia! amazed, overthrown, of course ...
    just why did the army shoot at the people? I thought war is when groups of people shoot? Is it not for nothing that January 9 was called the beginning of the Russian revolution?
    Actually, I did not argue with you, your subject of dispute is blurred, I asked: -
    Quote: Olgovich
    Quote: aybolyt678
    What do you think about January 9, 1905, isn't it a Guards ??

    I did not receive an answer, because the question was what do you think? what does TSB think I will ask her
  • Olgovich
    Olgovich 14 January 2021 12: 25
    -1
    Quote: aybolyt678
    I did not receive an answer, because the question was what do you think? what does TSB think I will ask her

    I brought bse on my behalf.

    by this definition, not GW
  • aybolyt678
    aybolyt678 14 January 2021 15: 10
    +1
    Quote: Olgovich
    I brought bse on my behalf.

    well, not GV, I will not argue. Dear Chubai ... I beg your pardon, Olgovich, is Bolshevism our usual subject of discussion?
  • Sugar Honeyovich
    Sugar Honeyovich 14 January 2021 14: 57
    +1
    Quote: Olgovich
    Civil war is the most acute form of resolving the accumulated social contradictions within the state, which manifests itself in the form of a large-scale armed confrontation between organized groups.
    The aim of the parties is to seize power in the country or in a particular region

    E.G. Panfilov. Civil War. Great Soviet Encyclopedia: In 30 volumes - M .: "Soviet Encyclopedia", 1969-1978.

    "Civil war, an acute form of the class struggle, an open clash of classes, historically inevitable in the struggle for power, which the revolutionary advanced class snatches from the hands of the class that has become obsolete and retards the development of the economy of society. (MES, Vol. 2)
    There are masses of examples, both in Russian and in world history.
    Specifically, during the described period:
    "" Civil war is the most acute form of the class struggle, when a series of clashes and battles of economic and political, repeating, accumulating, expanding, sharpening, comes to the transformation of these clashes into a fight with weapons in the hands of one class against another class. Most often - one might even say almost exclusively - civil war is observed in some free and advanced countries between those classes, the opposition between which is created and deepened by the entire economic development of capitalism, the entire history of modern society throughout the world, namely: between the bourgeoisie and the proletariat
    In the same way, during the six months of our revolution, we experienced very strong spontaneous explosions on April 20-21 and July 3-4, which were very close to the outbreak of civil war on the part of the proletariat. And the Kornilov uprising was supported by the landowners and capitalists, with the party of the Constitutional-Democrats. at the head, a military conspiracy, which has already led to the actual beginning of the civil war on the part of the bourgeoisie "(VI Lenin 16.09.1917).
    This is the truth. yes
  • bk0010
    bk0010 9 January 2021 13: 54
    +6
    Quote: Olgovich
    All countries participating in WWI, the most terrible Great War in the history of mankind, brought to the handle.
    What, and England (I don't mention the states and Montenegro)?
    Quote: Olgovich
    Russia is the only country of Antatnta, which stood in 1917 on the land of the aggressor.
    The wrong aggressor. That aggressor stood on Russian soil dangerously close to the capital.
    Quote: Olgovich
    So in 1937, the GW raged worse than 1923, and never completely died out ...
    No, this is not a civil war, this power was shared. Mills of justice, so to speak.
    1. Phil77
      Phil77 9 January 2021 15: 34
      -3
      Quote: bk0010
      Russia is the only country

      My friend! Russia is the only country where it is. There are many! Moscow;
    2. Olgovich
      Olgovich 9 January 2021 20: 29
      -8
      Quote: bk0010
      What, and England

      Yes
      Quote: bk0010
      The wrong aggressor. That aggressor stood on Russian soil dangerously close to the capital.

      Togo.
      And Russia stood with a front 2000 km west of the Volga.
      Quote: bk0010
      No, this is not a civil war, this power was shared. Mills of justice, so to speak.

      More than half a MILLION only executed in a year is .... power is divided? belay
      1. bk0010
        bk0010 9 January 2021 22: 14
        +5
        Quote: Olgovich
        Yes
        What "yes"? England only diminished money, but the country did not collapse and the monarchy was not overthrown.
        Quote: Olgovich
        Togo.
        Yes? And what lands of the Second Reich were occupied by Russian troops?
        Quote: Olgovich
        More than half a MILLION only executed in a year is .... power is divided?
        Yes. There were many who shared. The first cavalry competed with the Red Cossacks, the Trotskyists with the Bukharinites, etc.
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 10 January 2021 09: 16
          -3
          Quote: bk0010
          What "yes"?

          That "yes" - see. what was it about
          Quote: bk0010
          Yes? And what lands of the Second Reich were occupied by Russian troops?

          Avengria
          Quote: bk0010
          Yes. There were many who shared. The first cavalry competed with the Red Cossacks, the Trotskyists with the Bukharinites, etc.

          What "Cossacks" fool How did the Bukharinites shoot 700 in a year, and imprisoned millions?
          And where is ... the state with, right?
          1. bk0010
            bk0010 10 January 2021 12: 58
            +2
            Quote: Olgovich
            That "yes" - see. what was it about
            I will ask again: how did England collapse or the monarchy in England?
            Quote: Olgovich
            Avengria
            And we are talking about the German troops.
            Quote: Olgovich
            And where is ... the state with, right?
            And they were the administrative apparatus of the state. And they directed its resources to eliminate competitors from the same apparatus. As a result, they were destroyed. And then they destroyed those who destroyed them. And so a couple more times.
  • Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 9 January 2021 17: 55
    +5
    Olgovich, you are an intelligent person and should understand the difference between the actions of the regular army and the underground. "Anti-Soviet formations were revealed" what was the number of these formations, did they really exist, the regular army was not used. So you are not entirely accurate
  • aybolyt678
    aybolyt678 14 January 2021 07: 45
    0
    Quote: Olgovich
    Shaw was happening, sho was happening

    Quote: Olgovich
    Russia is the freest country of WWI

    Quote: Olgovich
    there were strikes, strikes at military factories, etc.: WHAT did they do in France, England

    that is, freedom means going on strike in wartime and engaging in politics?
  • gsev
    gsev 11 February 2021 23: 09
    0
    Quote: Olgovich
    But it was in Russia that the "pen" was ... the best: Russia is the ONLY belligerent European country where there was no HUNGER:

    In Russian villages, famine was a common occurrence under the tsars-priests and without war. According to my grandmother, her childhood was spent in hunger. In the 1970s, she vividly recounted how from a quinoa during famine, how a landlord's clerk killed her brother, who was trying to take a couple of potatoes to his sister in his bosom from the field.
  • Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 9 January 2021 09: 07
    -3
    Colleague adviser, in fairness: Ivan Strod was a warrant officer, but in the literature and on the website it was: "a chicken is not a bird a warrant officer is not an officer"
    So Strode was not quite an officer.
    1. Hunter 2
      Hunter 2 9 January 2021 09: 14
      +4
      Quote: Astra wild2
      Colleague adviser, in fairness: Ivan Strod was a warrant officer, but in the literature and on the website it was: "a chicken is not a bird a warrant officer is not an officer"
      So Strode was not quite an officer.

      Dear Astra, you are wrong! Ensign of the Royal Army corresponds to the rank of Junior Lieutenant in the modern!
      So Strod is quite a junior officer!
    2. Sling cutter
      Sling cutter 9 January 2021 09: 25
      +9
      Quote: Astra wild2
      For the sake of justice: Ivan Strod was an ensign, but in the literature and on the website it was: "a chicken is not a bird a warrant officer is not an officer"
      So Strode was not quite an officer.

      A colleague in the tsarist army, a law officer, was an officer's rank. hi
    3. Sugar Honeyovich
      Sugar Honeyovich 9 January 2021 09: 53
      +1
      Quote: Astra wild2
      chicken is not a bird ensign is not an officer "
      So Strode was not quite an officer.

      These warrant officers and non-commissioned officers - not (at all) officers defeated quite, completely officers ...
      1. Obliterator
        Obliterator 9 January 2021 12: 01
        -2
        Quote: Sahar Medovich
        These warrant officers and non-commissioned officers - not (at all) officers defeated quite, completely officers ...

        Only in quantity. At absolutely, completely officers and personnel, and mat.-tech. there has always been much less security.
        1. Sugar Honeyovich
          Sugar Honeyovich 9 January 2021 14: 55
          +3
          Mainly by quality. The quantity is already a consequence. And the fact that white people and mat.-tech. there was less security - also a quality problem. Quality management, modern - logistics. Purely quantitatively, they had a lot of both at their disposal.
          1. Obliterator
            Obliterator 9 January 2021 15: 24
            +2
            Quote: Sahar Medovich
            Mainly by quality. The quantity is already a consequence. And the fact that white people and mat.-tech. there was less security - also a quality problem. Quality management, modern - logistics. Purely quantitatively, they had a lot of both at their disposal.

            Excellence in organizational, advocacy and political plans, plus more resources. Well, the help of the same very, completely officers from military experts should not be forgotten. Yet, without the overwhelming numerical superiority in manpower, the Soviet government would not have survived.
            1. Sugar Honeyovich
              Sugar Honeyovich 9 January 2021 15: 38
              +4
              Quote: Obliterator
              Superiority in organizational, propaganda and political plans

              So this is quality. ORGANIZATIONAL EXCELLENCE. In Newspeak, effective (more!) Management.
              Quote: Obliterator
              plus more resources.

              Resources themselves do not fight and do not work. Moreover, "those" had a lot of them.
              Quote: Obliterator
              Yet, without the overwhelming numerical superiority in manpower, the Soviet government would not have survived.

              Numerical superiority must be created. The Soviet government succeeded, others did not.
        2. mat-vey
          mat-vey 9 January 2021 17: 40
          +3
          Quote: Obliterator
          At absolutely, completely officers and personnel, and mat.-tech. there has always been much less security.

          This is because the "not quite officers", for lack of their own, even squeezed the tanks from the "completely officers" ..
          And again, where did the "absolutely officers" get the tanks ..
      2. Catfish
        Catfish 9 January 2021 14: 37
        +5
        Lieutenant General Mikhail Dmitrievich Bonch-Bruevich is also "not quite an officer", and he was not alone, not counting lieutenants, captains and lieutenant colonels.
        1. Sugar Honeyovich
          Sugar Honeyovich 9 January 2021 14: 50
          +4
          It's right. Including.
        2. mat-vey
          mat-vey 9 January 2021 16: 19
          +3
          Quote: Sea Cat
          Lieutenant General Mikhail Dmitrievich Bonch-Bruevich is also "not quite an officer"

          And as for Brusilov ... one might say the founder of the method of breaking through a deeply echeloned defense ... Not even a strategist turns out.
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 9 January 2021 16: 40
            -3
            The Bolsheviks basely deceived Brusilov, and Bonch served them deliberately.
            1. mat-vey
              mat-vey 9 January 2021 16: 43
              +1
              Was your son persuaded to give him up to the Red Army?
              1. Catfish
                Catfish 9 January 2021 16: 44
                -1
                Write a letter to Crimea inviting whites to surrender with a promise to save lives.
                1. mat-vey
                  mat-vey 9 January 2021 17: 06
                  +3
                  "There was no response from Wrangel. Moreover, Wrangel concealed the contents of the radio message from his army personnel, ordering to close all radio stations."
                2. Obliterator
                  Obliterator 9 January 2021 18: 38
                  +2
                  Quote: mat-vey
                  "There was no response from Wrangel. Moreover, Wrangel concealed the contents of the radio message from his army personnel, ordering to close all radio stations."

                  As the development of events showed, he did the right thing.
                  Quote: mat-vey
                  This is because the "not quite officers", for lack of their own, even squeezed the tanks from the "completely officers" ..
                  And again, where did the "absolutely officers" get the tanks ..

                  That's why they are "quite officers" to "get" tanks and English uniforms.
                3. mat-vey
                  mat-vey 9 January 2021 18: 42
                  +2
                  Quote: Obliterator
                  That's why they are "quite officers" to "get" tanks and English uniforms.

                  Well, what did the gentlemen officers plan to pay off with?
                4. Obliterator
                  Obliterator 9 January 2021 19: 11
                  -1
                  Quote: mat-vey
                  Well, what did the gentlemen officers plan to pay off with?

                  Not sure if they were going to pay at all.
                5. mat-vey
                  mat-vey 9 January 2021 19: 19
                  +2
                  would they have a choice?
                6. Obliterator
                  Obliterator 9 January 2021 19: 52
                  -2
                  Quote: mat-vey
                  would they have a choice?

                  We will no longer know this.
                7. mat-vey
                  mat-vey 9 January 2021 19: 59
                  +2
                  Quote: Obliterator
                  We will no longer know this.

                  Again, how convenient ... Can you tell me at least one case of such generous charity on the part of "Western partners"?
                8. Obliterator
                  Obliterator 9 January 2021 20: 47
                  -2
                  Quote: mat-vey
                  Again, how convenient ... Can you tell me at least one case of such generous charity on the part of "Western partners"?

                  I didn’t delve into it too much, but I think that these deliveries would have been paid for with grain, well, with a maximum of gold, that is, nothing particularly serious.
                9. Sugar Honeyovich
                  Sugar Honeyovich 10 January 2021 07: 25
                  +1
                  Quote: Obliterator
                  nothing too serious.

                  Well, yes - bondage is more abrupt than the previous one - nothing serious, yeah.
                10. mat-vey
                  mat-vey 10 January 2021 08: 35
                  +3
                  Quote: Obliterator
                  but I think that for these deliveries they would pay with grain, well, maximum with gold, that is, nothing particularly serious.

                  Well, yes, and the officers themselves were going to wave a pick and work in the field, and for that they fought.
                11. Obliterator
                  Obliterator 10 January 2021 11: 15
                  0
                  Quote: mat-vey
                  Well, yes, and the officers themselves were going to wave a pick and work in the field, and for that they fought.

                  The party, too, did not seize power in order to personally work hard, if that.
                12. mat-vey
                  mat-vey 10 January 2021 11: 34
                  0
                  Of course - they are just in order to build new relationships in which the surplus value was not spent on palaces and balls, but on hospitals and schools for everyone.
                13. Obliterator
                  Obliterator 10 January 2021 11: 50
                  +1
                  Quote: mat-vey
                  hospitals and schools for everyone.

                  and useless projects like "Comintern".
                14. mat-vey
                  mat-vey 10 January 2021 11: 56
                  +2
                  Quote: Obliterator
                  and useless projects like "Comintern".

                  Of course, it would be easier with a time machine, but for now, humanity has to make do with trial and error.
  • Sugar Honeyovich
    Sugar Honeyovich 9 January 2021 18: 30
    +3
    And Brusilov himself asked for them. He was not called.
    1. Catfish
      Catfish 9 January 2021 18: 41
      0
      He told you about this himself?
      1. Sugar Honeyovich
        Sugar Honeyovich 10 January 2021 07: 26
        +3
        Not that he himself, but not for me alone.
      2. Catfish
        Catfish 10 January 2021 12: 26
        +1
        but not for me alone.

        I understand there are many of you on every kilometer (c)
      3. Sugar Honeyovich
        Sugar Honeyovich 10 January 2021 14: 29
        0
        The conversation, however, is not about us, but about Brusilov.
      4. Catfish
        Catfish 10 January 2021 14: 36
        0
        It makes no sense, the equation has no solutions. request
  • Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
    Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko 10 January 2021 17: 50
    +1
    But these warrant officers and non-commissioned officers were led by the former generals of the General Staff of Ingushetia, who shared in 1917-18. halved between reds and whites. Although, here another question arises: maybe the red ones got the excellent students, and the white C-students? It will be necessary to investigate this issue.
  • Phil77
    Phil77 9 January 2021 13: 32
    +3
    Quote: Astra wild2
    quite an officer

    Vera! Come to Moscow! Be surprised, really, there was a Russian city. Now. Well...
    1. Catfish
      Catfish 9 January 2021 15: 01
      0
      Hello to you, a native of the capital Churkingrad. drinks
      1. Phil77
        Phil77 10 January 2021 09: 56
        +1
        Quote: Sea Cat
        Churkingrad

        Bone! Someone doesn't love you, huh?
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 10 January 2021 12: 25
          +1
          Hello Seryozha! drinks
          It is always like this, the prose of life, those who lack something do not like those who have it. request
    2. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 9 January 2021 23: 38
      0
      Quote: Phil77
      Come to Moscow! Surprise, really, there was a Russian city, now. Well.

      Russian and remained, but not Soviet. And what do you want? Suggest.
      1. Phil77
        Phil77 10 January 2021 09: 52
        +1
        Quote: tihonmarine

        Russian and remained, but not Soviet

        Oh !!! Yes !!! You haven't been to the capital for a long time ???? Be amazed, really!
        1. tihonmarine
          tihonmarine 10 January 2021 11: 52
          0
          Quote: Phil77
          Oh !!! Yes !!! You haven't been to the capital for a long time ???? Be amazed, really!

          You are right for a very long time, passing only at the station in 2011, as well as with friends, with a voyage around the city in 2000 millennium.
      2. Phil77
        Phil77 10 January 2021 09: 54
        +1
        Quote: tihonmarine
        Suggest

        To propose? Yes, a direct option! Sobyanin, Popov, crayfish, again, home to the tundra! Although ... are they needed there? With all due respect!
  • bk0010
    bk0010 9 January 2021 13: 58
    +4
    Quote: Astra wild2
    So Strode was not quite an officer.
    A warrant officer in Ingushetia and a warrant officer in the USSR are different warrant officers. In WWI, most of the regular officers from all the belligerent sides were knocked out in the first two months (they tried to fight like under Napoleon, breastfeeding the enemy, and therefore quickly ended), so WWI was called a war of ensigns.
    1. Sugar Honeyovich
      Sugar Honeyovich 9 January 2021 15: 44
      +1
      Quote: bk0010
      WWI was called the war of ensigns.

      It was then that this saying about chicken and about not an officer appeared. From "four-month miscarriages".
      1. tihonmarine
        tihonmarine 9 January 2021 23: 53
        +2
        Quote: Sahar Medovich
        It was then that this saying about chicken and about not an officer appeared. From "four-month miscarriages".

        Well, there were similar ranks until 1917, aurjad-ensign - from 1907 to 1917 in the Russian army, a military rank for non-commissioned officers. Until 1907, this was the name of the ensign, who served as officers. And in the Red Army, there were also "Mamleys 3 days of battle", junior lieutenants of 3 months courses. Any war, in any army, first of all destroys an officer from a platoon commander to a company commander. Remember (those who know the title "Vanka company commander").
        Eternal glory and eternal memory to these junior commanders, "Vanka company commanders" and warrant officers of WWI.
        1. mat-vey
          mat-vey 10 January 2021 09: 20
          0
          Quote: tihonmarine
          Any war, in any army, first of all destroys an officer from a platoon commander to a company commander.

          And the analysis of these losses can show the level of training of the personnel. For which Blucher was "caught".
      2. Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
        Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko 10 January 2021 18: 01
        +1
        Don't be so about those people: they were the ones who endured the weight of PMA! In our family, along the line of my mother from Nizhny Novgorod, there was also a warrant officer, Sergei Vasilievich Puzanov (see in the list of repressed in the USSR). Before WWI, he finished four years of university, wanted to become a mathematician, but was drafted. He fought in Galicia from 1914 to October 1917. A week before the thief received a vacation and returned home to Nizhny Novgorod. I did not understand the revolution. From 1918 he fought as a lieutenant and captain at Kolchak. Was captured by the Reds. After the camp he lived in the town of Vyksa, Nizhny Novgorod region. He was killed in the mid-1930s: he disappeared without a trace, and then his relatives were summoned to the NKVD and told - take the body. So there were different warrant officers. Someone accepted the new power, but someone could not.
    2. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 9 January 2021 23: 41
      +1
      Quote: bk0010
      A warrant officer in Ingushetia and a warrant officer in the USSR are different warrant officers.

      And you still didn't know? And when was the institute of warrant officers introduced into the USSR? Do you remember that, or did you just hear it?
  • mat-vey
    mat-vey 9 January 2021 11: 09
    +6
    Quote: Level 2 Advisor
    You noticed, 2 tsarist officers (according to your opinion) were at war with each other ..

    Well, one is definitely not - that's why they fought.
    Quote: Level 2 Advisor
    Well, you have a very simplified vision of this issue.

    What's the difficulty? Some did not want to be a cattle, while others were satisfied with using their compatriots as draft animals ... and to such an extent they were happy that they were even ready to shoot, to hang them back in the barn - although in principle this had been practiced before.
    1. 2 Level Advisor
      2 Level Advisor 11 January 2021 10: 16
      0
      1. Ensign in RI is an officer ie all the same, both ..
      2. And here are the reasons for GW-in the article about this is what? but if you step back, well? became all free at once and hired labor disappeared?
      1. mat-vey
        mat-vey 12 January 2021 18: 32
        0
        Quote: Level 2 Advisor
        all free at once and hired labor disappeared?

        Yeah, and the child, when he was born, immediately went to school and immediately finished it.
  • Captain45
    Captain45 9 January 2021 16: 17
    +4
    Quote: Level 2 Advisor
    In fact, I believe that the main bad person is Nikolai 2, who brought, by world standards, a normally living country, one of the leaders of that world (to the level of which they returned after many years) to the handle in just a few years .. if not for he - there would be no revolution and 1,2 World - I am sure they would have gone differently,

    Taking into account the state structure of the Russian Empire at the time of the anointing to the throne of Nicholas II, please name at least one name from the reigning house of the Romanovs, who had the right to the throne, which, from your point of view, could lead Russia along a different path?
    1. 2 Level Advisor
      2 Level Advisor 11 January 2021 10: 18
      0
      yes he could .. it was just not necessary to "bend your fingers" and jump into the war right away .. I would have waited six months or a year while others are weakening and then it would have been much more effective ..
  • azkolt
    azkolt 10 January 2021 17: 29
    -1
    Doesn't it bother you that Nikolai brought the country to live by "world standards"? And what do you have under the "handle"?)))) The fact that by the year 17 and after Nikolai became the Supreme Commander (mind you, he became in the most difficult time). the front stabilized, weapons and ammunition appeared in sufficient quantities, for the spring-summer a general offensive was being prepared, according to historians' estimates, which would surely end Germany, if not directly, then with a blow to Turkey, Austria-Hungary and, as a result, the famine is already beginning (note also that in there no one shouted or shouted that the Kaiser brought Germany to the handle) would have ended the very existence of Kaiser's Germany!
    1. 2 Level Advisor
      2 Level Advisor 11 January 2021 10: 21
      0
      I am not belittling the positive aspects - I wrote directly that the country was in good condition .. but the responsibility for the above and the collapse is on it. He is the leader, he made decisions ..
  • Sling cutter
    Sling cutter 9 January 2021 09: 34
    +10
    The civil war was unleashed by such types as Krasnov, Denikin, Wrangel and other evil spirits.
    It was they who started the White Terror and the blood of the people shed the sea. But blood is not water and the Soviet government responded with red terror, everything is natural.
    After all, the Bolsheviks released Krasnov on his word of honor, and he began to trouble the people on the Don.
    1. Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
      Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko 10 January 2021 18: 03
      +1
      Learn the history of the White movement. At least briefly!
  • RUSS
    RUSS 9 January 2021 10: 40
    -5
    Quote: mat-vey
    some wanted to continue crunching a French bun, while others were already unbearable with bran bread -

    Will he just stop repeating clichés and stereotypes about the white movement, is Pepelyaev a mogarchist in your opinion?
    1. mat-vey
      mat-vey 9 January 2021 11: 22
      +8
      Quote: RUSS
      Quote: mat-vey
      some wanted to continue crunching a French bun, while others were already unbearable with bran bread -

      Will he just stop repeating clichés and stereotypes about the white movement, is Pepelyaev a mogarchist in your opinion?

      And what do you think only monarchists like to crunch a roll? Ordinary landlord manufacturers, together with common people, have deigned to eat fluffy bread with hazel grouses and pineapples?
      1. RUSS
        RUSS 9 January 2021 11: 54
        -4
        Quote: mat-vey
        Ordinary landowner manufacturers, along with common people, have deigned to eat fluffy bread with hazel grouses and pineapples?

        Is Pepeliaev a protégé of the manufacturers?
        1. mat-vey
          mat-vey 9 January 2021 12: 14
          +2
          Quote: RUSS
          Is Pepeliaev a protégé of the manufacturers?

          He just had a dream "to reconcile the Russian people" - he just seemed to have a peculiar idea of ​​"friendship".
  • CTABEP
    CTABEP 9 January 2021 22: 56
    -1
    Only a regular officer, a nobleman, is often a native of peasants. Because from the major you are nobles. But then they ate the gruel perfectly, instead of a block.
  • tihonmarine
    tihonmarine 9 January 2021 23: 35
    0
    Quote: mat-vey
    Indeed, in different ways - some wanted to continue crunching a French bun

    And what did we want when we voted for Yeltsin, and so on TWO times, probably a French roll, and not our Russian nigella. I know 70% won't like it, but that's life. Or maybe we forgot.
    1. Sling cutter
      Sling cutter 9 January 2021 23: 51
      +2
      Quote: tihonmarine
      And what did we want when we voted for Yeltsin, and so TWO times,

      Greetings, Kamrad! hi drinks There is definitely no such sin behind me, since 89 I have been telling everyone that he is a bastard, as soon as he read, allegedly, "his book" confession on a given topic. "
      Ebn and marked is a beautifully played performance in the three-act tragicomic play "Utilization of Russia". The marked = ebna = bunker cannot be considered separately, the first one rocked, launched a Trojan horse, and the third was utilized. The last third act is coming to an end ....
      1. mat-vey
        mat-vey 10 January 2021 10: 18
        +1
        Quote: Stroporez
        Ebn and Marked is a beautifully played performance in the three-act tragicomic play "Utilization of Russia".

        For me, rather, the marked one is simply weak and not smart (for a leader of this level, he is simply stupid) .. Here is the intriguer of the EBN and outplayed him in three moves.
        1. Sling cutter
          Sling cutter 10 January 2021 10: 26
          +3
          Quote: mat-vey
          For me, rather, the marked one is simply weak and not smart (for a leader of this level, he is simply stupid) .. Here is the intriguer of the EBN and outplayed him in three moves.

          "Perestroika" and the "glasnost" type were not launched by Eltsin, just like dry law, conversion and Komsomol cooperatives. Ebnishka did not outplay anyone, he just played his role, the tagged one visited the technician in 84th, and ebn in 88th.
          1. mat-vey
            mat-vey 10 January 2021 10: 29
            +1
            Quote: Stroporez
            Ebnishka did not outplay anyone, he just played his part

            Do you think that he was going to "play his part" to retire? Yes, they just pushed out into the lock, as he did not try to build a commie-democrat from himself.
            1. Sling cutter
              Sling cutter 10 January 2021 12: 03
              +2
              Quote: mat-vey
              Crawled on a wave of other people's interests, but in itself zero without a wand and mind.

              You are in vain underestimating these and Judas, all the more so, who are at the head of the state, although it is clear that the appointment of the marked one was lobbied, but we will learn about this only after the change of the redhead.
              1. mat-vey
                mat-vey 10 January 2021 12: 09
                0
                Quote: Stroporez
                In vain you underestimate these and even more Judas

                How can they be "underestimated" ... thanks to these "bright and progressive people" we have what we have.
      2. tihonmarine
        tihonmarine 10 January 2021 11: 57
        +1
        Quote: Stroporez
        It is impossible to consider separately the marked = ebna = bunker, the first rocked, launched the Trojan horse, and the third was disposed of. The last third act is coming to an end.

        Here, of course, you are right - multi-move. Look at the square, there is the same multi-way, but they went over there, the furuncle burst.
    2. mat-vey
      mat-vey 10 January 2021 10: 16
      0
      Quote: tihonmarine
      And what did we want when we voted for Yeltsin

      And what did you want? To find out that if you voted, then others could not necessarily vote for him? Could not go to this circus at all?
  • azkolt
    azkolt 10 January 2021 17: 21
    0
    Bread with bran and quinoa is already the achievement of the Soviet regime! It would not hurt you to delve into the history of the civil war, maybe then you would understand what utter nonsense they wrote!
    1. gsev
      gsev 10 January 2021 23: 53
      +1
      Quote: azkolt
      Bread with bran and quinoa is already the achievement of the Soviet regime!

      And under the tsar-father, was there not a proverb: "Hunger is not when bread is not freed, but when quinoa is not freed?" Famine disappeared in the USSR from the time of Khrushchev until 1990, when it began again in Tajikistan.
    2. mat-vey
      mat-vey 12 January 2021 18: 34
      0
      Quote: azkolt
      Bread with bran and quinoa is already the achievement of the Soviet regime!

      Yes, yes .. we will not finish eating, but we will sell, for this they started a war for the Straits ..
  • Far B
    Far B 9 January 2021 05: 36
    +14
    To begin with, it was necessary to take Nelkan, where a large CHON supply base was located. The village was taken, even the arsenal was captured - only the retreating Reds did not leave a crumb of food behind them. As a result, Pepeliaev and his people had to starve before the arrival of reinforcements.
    Poor, poor Pepeliaev. And Nicho, that he at the same time shot the Communists and Komsomol members in batches at the same time - both in Ayan and in Nelkan? I live here (in Ayana), I know this whole story very well. And yes, Mr. Kharaluzhny - the village of Amgu is a thousand kilometers from here. General Pepelyaev would have erased himself while he would have drowned. And you would not hurt at least to learn geography, or something. And where, nafig, did you get the "city of Ayan" ??? At that time, no more than a thousand people lived in Ayana! To school!!! At the desk !!! Well, or at least googol.
    1. Ross xnumx
      Ross xnumx 9 January 2021 05: 58
      -6
      Quote: Dalny V
      I live here (in Ayana), I know this whole story very well.

      good This is what I always welcome. We have already seen how quickly events are rewritten under the "correct scenario" hundreds of times. But, here is a special case ...
      How great it is that there is an opportunity to go out and see everything with your own eyes. How nice to know that some of the participants are most relevant to places of historical events.
      1. Far B
        Far B 9 January 2021 06: 02
        +5
        I have nothing to do with those events laughing Of course, I am already old, but not that much wassat With past drinks
      2. Far B
        Far B 9 January 2021 06: 13
        +1
        What a tricky way to answer laughing Touchet. Although, we all somehow live in places of historical events. You are sure too.
        1. Ross xnumx
          Ross xnumx 9 January 2021 06: 25
          -7
          Quote: Dalny V
          Although, we all somehow live in places of historical events. You are sure too.

          I meant only one thing, that local residents can know the history of their native land better than uncles and aunts from Moscow and St. Petersburg describe in their works ... Or Rosstat ... The city of Kemerovo (once) was included in the list of city names from anecdote:
          A plane with a foreigner flies over (name of locality).
          The foreigner asks:
          - And what is this city?
          They explain to him:
          - This is an experimental city (city ​​name). They built a nitrogen fertilizer plant for them - and people live. Aniline-colorful - live. Koksokhim - live. Removed meat and butter -
          people live ... They removed milk, eggs and fish - they live. We removed sugar and flour - they live.
          Foreigner:
          - And if you sprinkle with dust?
          1. Far B
            Far B 9 January 2021 06: 51
            -1
            Well, I'm sure Kemerovo also has its own history. Unambiguously fascinating (we don't take into account the BG song).
            1. Lech from Android.
              Lech from Android. 9 January 2021 07: 09
              +5
              Kolyvan also has its own history of civil war ... Both sides destroyed each other, who is less than who is more ... As a result, now we cannot restore and increase our people in any way ... Fertility is low, and the territory of the country is huge ... Where people then take something for its development. .. The gene pool of the people was undermined in the wars of the 20th century. It is a difficult and sad experience. We can't now slide into any war.
              1. apro
                apro 9 January 2021 07: 18
                +3
                Quote: Lech from Android.
                As a result, now we cannot restore and increase our people in any way ...

                And doing this? Or, on the contrary, trying to reduce ...
                Again Vilenin planted a bonbo? Again, look for the extreme? And in 1991, what was it? The Russians had 30 years to fix everything in Russian ... what did they do?
                Under the communists, there was growth, and the prospects were ...
                1. Lech from Android.
                  Lech from Android. 9 January 2021 07: 28
                  +1
                  Under the communists, there was growth, and the prospects were ...
                  There was, of course, but first we need to figure out with statistics where who and what fertility was, in what years there was a sharp increase or decrease and what was the reason. hiAs a Russian, I still see the stagnation of the fertility of my people, there are many reasons for this and this is a topic for a separate article.
                  1. apro
                    apro 9 January 2021 07: 29
                    +2
                    There is no need to figure out the Russian Federation? Why are such failures ... in no way connected with the Reds ..
                    1. Lech from Android.
                      Lech from Android. 9 January 2021 07: 36
                      -4
                      Or maybe related, collectivization, WWII, various stupid perestroika strongly affect the well-being of the people ... I perceive the people as a whole and any shocks have a bad effect on their body.
                      1. apro
                        apro 9 January 2021 07: 49
                        +7
                        Quote: Lech from Android.
                        Or maybe related, collectivization

                        And how interesting ??? with an increase in the production of cx products. Mechanization, the population is critically falling ??? something new.
                        Quote: Lech from Android.
                        WWII

                        Are they sure the Reds are up to it?
                        Quote: Lech from Android.
                        various stupid adjustments

                        The Russians supported this perestroika, the destruction of the USSR, they really wanted to.
                        Quote: Lech from Android.
                        any shocks are bad for his body.

                        It is clear that not everything is going smoothly, and you need to be prepared for troubles. But during shocks, for some reason, the USSR came out stronger. And the Russian Federation was withering away.
                      2. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 9 January 2021 09: 26
                        -6
                        Quote: Lech from Android.
                        Or maybe related, collectivization, WWII, various stupid restructuring

                        That's right, + GV, exile of uncondemned millions of peasants (mortality FORTY times higher than the birth rate), the worst famines in the world, repression - all this did not increase the birth rate ...
                        Wang's opponent is ridiculous with his ridiculous ignorance:
                        apro (Oleg Frolov)

                        Quote: Lech from Android.
                        Or maybe related, collectivization

                        And how interesting ??? increase in production of cx products.


                        For it is generally known that in 1937 and 1940 people ate MUCH LESS meat, milk, butter, eggs, bread than in 1913, which is recognized even by the authorities themselves in Report of the Central Statistical Administration of the USSR in 1955!.

                        And the communist builders, through incredible sacrifices and efforts, caught up with the yield of the 1913 level only after ...FORTY-FOUR, 1956

                        And then they completely switched to ... IMPORTING grain for currency, unable to feed the citizens themselves ...
                      3. Sugar Honeyovich
                        Sugar Honeyovich 9 January 2021 09: 56
                        +4
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        it is well known that in 1937 and 1940 people ate MUCH LESS meat, milk, butter, eggs, bread than in 1913, which is recognized even by the authorities themselves in the Report of the Central Statistical Administration of the USSR in 1955!

                        Only for some reason people themselves claim the opposite. Again, a contradiction with the authorities! what
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        then they completely switched to ... IMPORTING grain for foreign currency, unable to feed the citizens themselves ...

                        Like the so-called. developed countries at one time? Germany, for example?
                      4. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 9 January 2021 12: 50
                        -11%
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Only for some reason people themselves claim the opposite. Again, a contradiction with the authorities!

                        Are you a people of 1937? belay lol

                        And this is what the NKVD wrote in the year declared built socialism 1937 just one Kuibyshev region:
                        In total during the winter in 14 districts there were 62 deaths due to hunger. There were also cases of swelling from hunger in the families of the Red Army soldiers. Eating various surrogates are observed in the vast majority of collective farms in districts. In the Red Sloboda, Kamensky and other areas noted eating fell.

                        In the Staro-Kulatkinsky district, there was an attack by a crowd of more than 200 people on a bread store. The crowd broke down the doors to the store and began grabbing loaves of bread, of which there were no more than 150 kg. At the same time, a pregnant woman was hushed up, whose premature birth immediately began.

                        In with. The grave of the Neverkinsky district in order to disperse the queue standing at the bakery, the deputy director of MTS for political affairs Khusnutdinov suggested the guard of MTS Karbik shoot a gunwhat he did. Those standing in line did not leave immediately. In some cases, in queues for bread there are manifestations of acute discontent, scandals and fights.

                        In many areas post poverty, especially among children who drop out of school.

                        (Istmat).
                      5. Sugar Honeyovich
                        Sugar Honeyovich 9 January 2021 15: 54
                        +5
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Are you a people of 1937?

                        The same as you. yes
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        But what the NKVD wrote in

                        And here is what people said about the same time:
                        - They began to live well when the collective farms went. Not as in a one-man farm - and the weekend appeared and earned more on the collective farm.
                        - Famine in 1933? On the contrary, it was a well-fed year, they received so much bread for workdays - they were transported home by vans!
                        - The famine in 1933 was due to the drought, but the main thing is that the collective farms did not have time to enter the force yet. And when they entered, there was no more hunger.
                        request
                      6. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 9 January 2021 20: 39
                        -6
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        They began to live well when the collective farms went. Not as in a one-man farm - and the weekend appeared and earned more on the collective farm.

                        Let's go collective farms, let's go starving death in 1930 city

                        Food consumption has dropped a lot compared to even 1928
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        - Famine in 1933? On the contrary, it was a well-fed year, We received so much bread for workdays - they were transported home by vans!

                        You blaspheme against memory millions of our compatriots, dead from hunger untimely.
                        Their memory is the only thing we can do for them. And you negative
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        The famine in 1933 was due to the drought, but the main thing was that the collective farms had not yet had time to enter the force. And how did they enter - there was no more hunger.

                        Mass starvation mortality 1936/1937 - see. above DOCUMENTS.

                        Shame on you? No. negative
                      7. Sugar Honeyovich
                        Sugar Honeyovich 10 January 2021 07: 29
                        +1
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Collective farms went, starved to death in 1930.

                        Food consumption has dropped a lot compared to even 1928

                        Did you live at the time? An eyewitness?
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Shame on you?

                        For the truth? You have a perverse morality. However, this is typical for YOU ...
                      8. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 10 January 2021 09: 20
                        -3
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Did you live at the time? An eyewitness?

                        MILLION eyewitnesses, dozens of witnesses, as well as DOCUMENTS
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        For the truth? You have a perverse morality. However, this is typical for YOU ...

                        For the insult to the memory of millions who died of hunger, your denial of it.
                        Shame ....
                      9. Sugar Honeyovich
                        Sugar Honeyovich 10 January 2021 09: 26
                        +1
                        I asked - YOU are an eyewitness?
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        MILLION eyewitnesses, dozens of witnesses, as well as DOCUMENTS

                        Yes. And their testimonies are very different up to the diametrical opposite.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        your denial of it

                        You're lying. I have no denial of this. And what are you doing - really disgrace and blasphemy.
                      10. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 10 January 2021 11: 30
                        -2
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Yes. And their testimonies are very different up to the diametrical opposite.

                        Lying
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        You're lying. I have no denial of this. And what are you doing - really disgrace and blasphemy.

                        You're lying: on the facts of cannibalism, you cite a lie about the abundance of bread from agitation, and the lack of hunger after the formation of kolkhokhs, although you are given DOCUMENTS about swelling and huge starvation deaths of 1937
                      11. Sugar Honeyovich
                        Sugar Honeyovich 10 January 2021 11: 41
                        0
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Lying

                        Lying.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        you are telling lies about the abundance of bread from agitation

                        Lying
                        I did not bring anything from agitation.
                      12. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 11 January 2021 10: 53
                        0
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich

                        Lying.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        you are telling lies about the abundance of bread from agitation

                        Lying
                        I did not bring anything from agitation.

                        All you have is a lie:
                        Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                        - Famine in 1933? On the contrary withbeen a year, they got so much bread for workdays - they were transported home by vans!
                        fool negative
                      13. Sugar Honeyovich
                        Sugar Honeyovich 11 January 2021 17: 04
                        -1
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        All you have is a lie:

                        You.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        - Famine in 1933? On the contrary, it was a well-fed year, they received so much bread for workdays - they were transported home by vans!

                        The story of a contemporary means truth. The purest. good
                      14. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 11 January 2021 19: 36
                        0
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich

                        You.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        - Famine in 1933? On the contrary, it was a well-fed year, they received so much bread for workdays - they were transported home by vans!

                        The story of a contemporary means truth. The purest.

                        The source is on the table. Lying.
                      15. Sugar Honeyovich
                        Sugar Honeyovich 12 January 2021 02: 53
                        0
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        The source is on the table.

                        Easy. Provide me with a connection with that light and your lies will be exposed hundreds of%.
                      16. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 12 January 2021 09: 06
                        -1
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich

                        Easy. Provide me with a connection with that light and your lies will be exposed hundreds of%.

                        only "that" light is your .... source of information?

                        T i.e. no other confirmation of your deceitful BOLTOVNO.

                        t.d.
                      17. Sugar Honeyovich
                        Sugar Honeyovich 12 January 2021 09: 49
                        0
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        only "that" light is your .... source of information?

                        Not only. The same as yours.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        no other confirmation of your deceitful BOLTOVNO.

                        Consequently, your lying BOLTOVNE about Smolensk ancestors - too?
  • Malyuta
    Malyuta 9 January 2021 13: 36
    +34
    Quote: Olgovich
    Exactly so + GV, links of uncondemned millions of peasants (mortality FORTY times higher than the birth rate)

    I’m very sorry, but how were you born if the whole country died of hunger and in the camps?
  • Olgovich
    Olgovich 9 January 2021 13: 59
    -11%
    Quote: Malyuta
    I will greatly apologize but how you were born if the whole country died of hunger and in the camps?

    The same as you. Or are you .... to others ?! belay recourse
  • Malyuta
    Malyuta 9 January 2021 14: 12
    +33
    Quote: Olgovich
    The same as you. Or are you .... to others ?!

    Ha, everything is clear about me, I didn’t have such a famine and the NKVD camps, so I’m natural, and you all died, so I asked. what
  • Olgovich
    Olgovich 9 January 2021 20: 48
    -6
    Quote: Malyuta
    Ha, everything is clear about me, I didn't have such a famine and the NKVD camps, that's why I'm natural, and everyone died here, so I asked

    Hehe, nothing is clear about you at all, for the last real communist-Leninists, according to the fervent statements of almost all guardians of the past, disappeared back in the distant 1950stortured by numerous Trotskyists.
    That's why I asked, in HOW way did you manage .... to leak? belay recourse
  • Malyuta
    Malyuta 9 January 2021 13: 41
    +29
    Quote: Lech from Android.
    I perceive the people as a whole and any shocks have a bad effect on their body.

    Last year, the population of the Russian Federation was reduced by more than 400 thousand souls. With such stability, we will all just gasp, stable and without shocks.
  • Far B
    Far B 9 January 2021 07: 31
    0
    There was of course, but first you need to figure out the statistics
    Really? Will you figure out the statistics - and your birth rate will increase automatically? Damn, I thought it depends on the testicles more than on statistics.
    1. Lech from Android.
      Lech from Android. 9 January 2021 07: 40
      +2
      [quote] and your birth rate will automatically grow / quote]
      These are your words, I did not say this, you probably draw far-reaching conclusions on special cases, but this is your right. hi I prefer to see the big picture and then a particular case ... And I am in no hurry to draw hasty conclusions.
      1. Far B
        Far B 9 January 2021 07: 44
        +1
        These are your words I didn't say that
        Damn, then don't confuse causation.
        First, we need to figure out with statistics where who and what birth rate was, in what years there was a sharp increase or decrease and what was the reason
      2. Lech from Android.
        Lech from Android. 9 January 2021 07: 53
        +3
        Well, sorry hi everyone is looking for what he wants and sees the situation in his own way. You suddenly found in my words an automatic increase in childbearing ... Although I had no idea about it ... Miracles.
      3. Far B
        Far B 9 January 2021 08: 03
        -4
        Soryan. They misunderstood. drinks
  • The comment was deleted.
    1. unknown
      unknown 9 January 2021 08: 33
      +4
      So that's okay.
      In the animal kingdom too.
      More highly developed living things always have a lower birth rate than less organized ones.
  • Sling cutter
    Sling cutter 9 January 2021 11: 11
    +8
    Quote: Lech from Android.
    there is a history of civil war ... Both sides destroyed each other, who is less than who is more ... As a result, now we cannot restore and increase our people in any way ...

    Take the statistics and you will see the population size before the revolution and before the Second World War and it will immediately become clear to you that the civil war does not affect the extinction of the population today. Not at all.
  • Stirbjorn
    Stirbjorn 9 January 2021 12: 01
    +10
    Quote: Lech from Android.
    The gene pool of the people was undermined in the wars of the 20th century.

    The gene pool was undermined by childhood alcoholism during the time of Nicholas II, even before the wars
    Another manifestation of the deviation of minors was the use of alcoholic beverages, which, as noted at the First All-Russian Congress on the Fight against Drunkenness, "occurs in children much more often than it is commonly thought ... 90% of the drinking population begin to learn how to drink alcohol in their youth." Of the 43 children surveyed at the St. Petersburg School for Boys aged 8-11, 37 were familiar with vodka. Before lunch, 9 people drank from half to one glass every day, on holidays - 14, were drunk from vodka - 16, from beer - 17. In other schools, out of 50 boys did not know the taste of vodka, only 6. In a female school, out of 50 girls drank vodka - 10, beer and wine - 38.

    According to the data presented at the All-Russian Congress on Family Education, “out of 182 boys, aged 8 to 13 years old, 166 were familiar with alcohol, and 151 of them drank vodka systematically. Some stated that they can drink up to 3 glasses at once with pleasure, and they drink because "it makes a good noise in my head." Of the 159 girls aged 8 to 15, 149 drank, ie 93,7%, some of them “every day”, others “for a long time”, the third “were drunk”. As you can see, drunkenness was characteristic of both boys and girls, the differences were only in the frequency and place of consumption, as well as in the quality of drinks. https://hystory.mediasole.ru/90_podrostkov_v_carskoy_rossii_pili_vodku
  • vladcub
    vladcub 9 January 2021 11: 17
    0
    Dalniy, what did you want from Kharluzhny?
  • bober1982
    bober1982 9 January 2021 05: 45
    +5
    The author of the lyrics of the song "Along the valleys and along the hills" is Gilyarovsky, he is also known as Uncle Gilyai and the text was written with the beginning of WWI as "March of the Siberian Regiment"
    What we can agree with the author is that the song was well known to all the opposing sides, even including the fascist accomplices - the Vlasovites, even these were among the ranks of its performers, in their own manner, of course, the performers of this song were both the Drozdovites and the Makhnovists , and the soldiers who fought for the world's first state of workers and peasants, according to the author.
    1. Far B
      Far B 9 January 2021 05: 59
      0
      the performers of this song were the Drozdovites, the Makhnovists, and
      They weren't performers this songs, because the song had completely different words. Accordingly, it was a completely different song. So it was on one motive that our "March of the Aviators" was written, and something Hitler's. But to call it the same song - thank you. The anthem of the USSR and the current anthem - too one song, whether?
      1. Free wind
        Free wind 9 January 2021 06: 58
        +2
        A song is usually called music and poetry, but it is customary to call a melody a song.
        1. Far B
          Far B 9 January 2021 07: 27
          -2
          Are you seriously? Who accepted it? The meaning of the song is in words. You can write a lot of lyrics to the melody "Get up, the country is huge". But it won't be the same song.
        2. Malyuta
          Malyuta 9 January 2021 14: 46
          +28
          Quote: Free Wind
          A song is usually called music and poetry, but it is customary to call a melody a song.

          I'm so sorry but a melody without words, it's a melody yes
          1. Free wind
            Free wind 9 January 2021 15: 41
            0
            composers consider themselves songwriters, but I consider poems to be songs. Somehow like this. So we are in the same boat, following the same dog. laughing
      2. bober1982
        bober1982 9 January 2021 08: 12
        +3
        Quote: Dalny V
        since the song had completely different words.

        The lyrics of the song are the words of the march of the Imperial Army regiment, but there were many interpretations, in their own way, depending on political preferences.
        1. Sugar Honeyovich
          Sugar Honeyovich 9 January 2021 16: 00
          +1
          Farewell to a Slav has many editions now, but the general mood is the same - in major. But the minor song to the same melody from the times of the Japanese war is completely different.
          1. Doliva63
            Doliva63 9 January 2021 19: 12
            +2
            Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
            Farewell to a Slav has many editions now, but the general mood is the same - in major. But the minor song to the same melody from the times of the Japanese war is completely different.

            You have puzzled me. Didn't Vasya Agapkin write this "melody"? Not in PMA? What does the Japanese have to do with it? belay
            1. Sugar Honeyovich
              Sugar Honeyovich 10 January 2021 07: 53
              +1
              Quote: Doliva63
              Didn't Vasya Agapkin write this "melody"? Not in PMA?

              It is believed that he is. But not in PMV, but in PBW. It may be (though unlikely) that it was an unfamiliar melody to him.
              Quote: Doliva63
              What does the Japanese have to do with it

              Given that during her they sang a song with the following content:
              - Oh, why did they take us to the soldiers,
              Hijacked to the Far East?
              Why, what are we to blame
              Have you gone one inch?
              Will tear off my legs or arms
              They will carry me away on a stretcher.
              And for all these grievous torments
              The Cross of George will be presented to me ...
              What kind of music suggests itself? It is likely that Agapkin somehow worked it out, and most importantly, he put it on paper. And he became, as it were, an author ...
              1. Doliva63
                Doliva63 10 January 2021 17: 32
                +1
                Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                Quote: Doliva63
                Didn't Vasya Agapkin write this "melody"? Not in PMA?

                It is believed that he is. But not in PMV, but in PBW. It may be (though unlikely) that it was an unfamiliar melody to him.
                Quote: Doliva63
                What does the Japanese have to do with it

                Given that during her they sang a song with the following content:
                - Oh, why did they take us to the soldiers,
                Hijacked to the Far East?
                Why, what are we to blame
                Have you gone one inch?
                Will tear off my legs or arms
                They will carry me away on a stretcher.
                And for all these grievous torments
                The Cross of George will be presented to me ...
                What kind of music suggests itself? It is likely that Agapkin somehow worked it out, and most importantly, he put it on paper. And he became, as it were, an author ...

                Well, on this text, the melodies of the waltzes of those years will quite fit. And Agapkin was just a trumpet player, then he could hardly put anything on paper. No, I am for Vasily, definitely! laughing
                1. Sugar Honeyovich
                  Sugar Honeyovich 10 January 2021 18: 03
                  0
                  Quote: Doliva63
                  , the melodies of the waltzes of those years will quite fall on this text

                  For example?
                  1. Doliva63
                    Doliva63 10 January 2021 18: 19
                    0
                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                    Quote: Doliva63
                    , the melodies of the waltzes of those years will quite fall on this text

                    For example?

                    Well, "On the hills of Manchuria", for example. I have no hearing, choose for yourself, please.
                    1. Sugar Honeyovich
                      Sugar Honeyovich 11 January 2021 17: 22
                      0
                      I can't even imagine how such a text can be sung to the melody "On the Hills of Manchuria". The texts do not even have the same size! Strong. Apart from "Slavyanka" no music is selected.
                      1. Doliva63
                        Doliva63 11 January 2021 18: 49
                        0
                        It's hard for me to argue - not a musician finally. But I would put such a text anywhere, even under the "murk" laughing I think the fighters of those years were not far from me. But for me Slavyanka is only Vasya Agapkin. Stereotypes, you know drinks Since childhood. I had a blue record from a magazine (I don't remember the name), where the creation of a melody was presented almost step by step. And my father had a colleague in the 60s, a "regimental accompanist", Artamonov, he seemed to know Agapkin personally. Then he became a general from military music. In general, we shouldn't argue. It is what it is. Agapkin = "Farewell of the Slav" drinks
  • tasha
    tasha 9 January 2021 06: 08
    +11
    An interesting model of the "ice siege" is located in the Gate Tower of the Yakutsk prison in Yakutsk.

    Of the 282 Red Army men who were under the command of Strod, 63 were killed in the three weeks of the siege, and 96 were wounded.
    1. Doliva63
      Doliva63 9 January 2021 19: 16
      +1
      Quote: tasha
      An interesting model of the "ice siege" is located in the Gate Tower of the Yakutsk prison in Yakutsk.

      Of the 282 Red Army men who were under the command of Strod, 63 were killed in the three weeks of the siege, and 96 were wounded.

      "There were people in our time ..." Remember? I think the poet would choose the side of the Reds.
  • Crowe
    Crowe 9 January 2021 07: 01
    +14
    Places of the last battles of the Civil War

    Well, there are as many people here, so many opinions, as they say .. There is no consensus on how to determine the chronology of the Civil War. There are experts who believe that the war began with the February Revolution, others defend May 1918. There is also no final opinion when the war ended. The end of the Civil War with the capture of Vladivostok and the later defeat of Pepelyaev is a rather arbitrary concept - in Central Asia the Basmachi war continued for a long time. Then the Soviet government had to endure several major uprisings. The main thing is that the Civil War ended and its result was the establishment of Soviet power.
    1. Catfish
      Catfish 9 January 2021 14: 39
      +11
      Hello to the Leader.)) Until now, many people break their spears when the Second World War began, no wonder, everyone has their own starting point.
  • Free wind
    Free wind 9 January 2021 07: 17
    +8
    Who is interested in the photo? What is not red is for sure. The fact that the whites were bandits is known to everyone, they killed small children. In many villages there are monuments to the victims of Kolchak's atrocities. and the names of the victims I saw and more than in the Second Patriotic War.
    1. bober1982
      bober1982 9 January 2021 09: 12
      +7
      Quote: Free Wind
      In many villages there are monuments to the victims of Kolchak's atrocities. and saw the names of the victims

      I also saw such monuments, in Shadrinsk there is an obelisk, very neat and well-groomed, the victims of such massacres are named by name, whole families. I took a photo, I have it, but I don't know how to upload it.
      Civil war, a terrible thing.
    2. RUSS
      RUSS 9 January 2021 11: 00
      -10%
      Quote: Free Wind
      Who is interested in the photo?

      In the photo, the military has shoulder straps, it means white.
      Quote: Free Wind
      The fact that the whites were bandits is well known to everyone, they killed small children.


      Well, yes, well, yes, we ate children we live)))). Reds committed atrocities on a larger scale
      1. mat-vey
        mat-vey 9 January 2021 11: 14
        +5
        Quote: RUSS
        Reds committed atrocities on a larger scale

        Well, yes, back in 1905 they began to commit atrocities ..
    3. mat-vey
      mat-vey 9 January 2021 11: 17
      +11
      Quote: Free Wind
      In many villages there are monuments to the victims of Kolchak's atrocities.

      My great-grandfather miraculously survived - the Reds recaptured the village, otherwise they were going to hang it. My grandfather was already over 60 ... he really then lived another 40 years ... so a living witness and a time machine (right along Bradbury).
      1. RUSS
        RUSS 9 January 2021 13: 57
        -11%
        Quote: mat-vey
        Quote: Free Wind
        In many villages there are monuments to the victims of Kolchak's atrocities.

        My great-grandfather miraculously survived - the Reds recaptured the village, otherwise they were going to hang it. My grandfather was already over 60 ... he really then lived another 40 years ... so a living witness and a time machine (right along Bradbury).

        The White Terror is the initiative of individual military leaders and hardened officers. For the Soviet regime, the destruction of enemies is a state policy.
        1. mat-vey
          mat-vey 9 January 2021 13: 59
          +7
          Quote: RUSS
          The White Terror is the initiative of individual military leaders and hardened officers.

          How convenient ... And then questions why the compassion of fellow citizens is dumb ...
          Quote: RUSS
          For the Soviet regime, the destruction of enemies is state policy.

          Tell us what kind of power does not fight enemies?
          1. RUSS
            RUSS 9 January 2021 14: 40
            -4
            Quote: mat-vey
            Tell us what kind of power does not fight enemies?

            Everyone has different methods.
            1. mat-vey
              mat-vey 9 January 2021 14: 42
              +7
              Quote: RUSS
              Everyone has different methods.

              Indeed, two times to release on parole ...
              1. RUSS
                RUSS 9 January 2021 17: 12
                -4
                Quote: mat-vey
                Indeed, two times to release on parole ...

                One hell under the roller of repression then fell
                1. mat-vey
                  mat-vey 9 January 2021 17: 15
                  +5
                  Is this Krasnov?
                  1. RUSS
                    RUSS 9 January 2021 19: 45
                    +1
                    Quote: mat-vey
                    Is this Krasnov?

                    There is no Krasnov, but just look at the list of repressed high commanders and chiefs of the Armed Forces of the USSR (1935-1945)
                    Ksati almost all the red commanders who fought in the Far East against the whites, were either shot or locked up in camps.
                    1. mat-vey
                      mat-vey 9 January 2021 19: 57
                      +3
                      Quote: RUSS
                      Ksati almost all the red commanders who fought in the Far East against the whites, were either shot or locked up in camps.

                      And say thank you to the Japs - they arranged a test for them, and they take it and go into a binge.
                      Quote: RUSS
                      There is no Krasnov, but just look at the list of repressed high commanders and chiefs of the Armed Forces of the USSR (1935-1945)

                      Is this not about Tukhachevsky?
                      1. RUSS
                        RUSS 9 January 2021 20: 18
                        0
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        Is this not about Tukhachevsky?

                        Tukhachevsky is a separate story
                      2. mat-vey
                        mat-vey 10 January 2021 08: 33
                        0
                        And that all the lambs of God were? They just took it and "repressed" - the mood was right. And everyone had it.
      2. Sugar Honeyovich
        Sugar Honeyovich 9 January 2021 16: 23
        +7
        Quote: RUSS
        The White Terror is the initiative of individual military leaders and hardened officers.

        There were just so many of these individuals that they overshadowed the Soviet "state policy".
        1. RUSS
          RUSS 9 January 2021 17: 13
          -5
          Quote: Sahar Medovich
          There were just so many of these individuals that they overshadowed the Soviet "state policy".

          Well, you never know.
          1. Sugar Honeyovich
            Sugar Honeyovich 9 January 2021 18: 25
            +4
            Contemporaries knew this for sure.
  • tasha
    tasha 9 January 2021 08: 23
    +6
    Let me remind readers of one more VO material on this topic:
    "Freezing hike. Pepeliaev's Yakut expedition".
    https://topwar.ru/43060-ledenyaschiy-pohod-yakutskaya-ekspediciya-pepelyaeva.html
  • Sugar Honeyovich
    Sugar Honeyovich 9 January 2021 10: 42
    +2
    [take Irkutsk and proclaim the Provisional Siberian Government there. And then - how it goes ...]
    How about? The broken one is itching to ...
  • Phil77
    Phil77 9 January 2021 11: 02
    -4
    Quote: Astra wild2
    oh i'm AFRAID of Putin's departure.

    Why? Why, Vera!
    1. Phil77
      Phil77 9 January 2021 11: 14
      0
      Quote: Phil77
      Fishing season

      Question! Why? Minibuses, if you have something to say, tell me. No? Yes, just take a walk! No?
      1. mat-vey
        mat-vey 9 January 2021 11: 31
        -1
        Quote: Phil77
        Question! Why? Minibuses, if you have something to say, tell me. No? Yes, just take a walk! No?

        1. Phil77
          Phil77 9 January 2021 12: 40
          0
          Quote: mat-vey
          No

          Witty! Plus! But I'm ... not from Paris, alas? Although? Oh, damn! I love .... dots, sinful.
          1. mat-vey
            mat-vey 9 January 2021 12: 42
            0
            Quote: Phil77
            Paris, alas?

            I only recommend action ..)
            And yet, yes, Kisa did not come from Paris.
            1. Phil77
              Phil77 9 January 2021 12: 44
              -2
              Quote: mat-vey
              act..)

              What are you talking about? I don't understand, p. laughing
              1. mat-vey
                mat-vey 9 January 2021 12: 48
                +1
                Yes, treat mininuators as the classics recommended - .... "saliva", and from Paris or from Stargorod you are completely purple.
                1. Phil77
                  Phil77 9 January 2021 14: 02
                  0
                  Quote: mat-vey
                  violet

                  Yes, amigo, the attitude towards us is appropriate! Alas! To us?
                  1. mat-vey
                    mat-vey 9 January 2021 14: 08
                    +2
                    Quote: Phil77
                    Yes, amigo, the attitude towards us is appropriate! Alas! To us?

                    And what is appropriate?
    2. Astra wild2
      Astra wild2 9 January 2021 13: 21
      +3
      Sergei, read my last posts. Hope I answered your question
  • vladcub
    vladcub 9 January 2021 11: 07
    +7
    Kharluzhny didn't recognize where the crackling stamps were? The work looks like one of the "Samsons"
  • Aviator_
    Aviator_ 9 January 2021 11: 15
    +4
    water problems

    Is it winter in Siberia?
  • vladcub
    vladcub 9 January 2021 11: 28
    +3
    Quote: Far In
    What a tricky way to answer laughing Touchet. Although, we all somehow live in places of historical events. You are sure too.

    You can't argue with that. "We live in places of historical events" I confirm: our history is rich in significant events. And GW blood flowed like rivers everywhere
  • Abrosimov Sergey Olegovich
    Abrosimov Sergey Olegovich 9 January 2021 11: 44
    -8
    Quote: mat-vey
    The greatest tragedy of our Motherland was that each of the sides saw Russia in different ways ... "Indeed, in different ways - some wanted to continue crunching a French bun, while others were already unbearable for bread with bran - although the latter both rye and wheat raised.


    The fact that what happened is the GREATEST TRAGEDY OF OUR LAND You are absolutely right.
    But the rest - you wrote nonsense.
    I call Maxim Gorky and Mikhail Alexandrovich Sholokhov as witnesses!
    So, the novel "Mother" by M. Gorky. Remember, the main character is Paul. Remember, he's just a YOUNG WORKER !! goes to work at the plant and receives the first salary. And how did he spend it ??? I bought a button accordion, a whole bunch of other things and got drunk !!! And this is a person who had nothing to live on !!!, a person who, according to your judgment, out of poverty, had to eat "bran bread".
    The episode described by Gorky indicates something completely different - those who worked, managed their money rationally and DIDN'T get drunk far from starving and didn’t eat bread with bran at all !!!

    Now let us turn to the immortal and truly Great "Quiet Don" and "How the Steel Was Tempered" by Mikhail Alexandrovich Sholokhov. Hero - Yakov Lukich. According to the plot, Yakov Lukich takes on a completely ruined economy and "bit into the ground Yakov Lukich"he worked on the ground like a damned one and after a while he got out into the strong middle peasant, then - ... and then Sholokhov writes that Yakov Lukich began to think that his son would enter the Military School, and he (Yakova Lukich) would ride a car.
    Pay attention, an ordinary Cossack who got a ruined economy rose up and got rich. And all this - by their own labor !!! And what kind of bulkokhrust he is ???
    But Sholokhov has another example - Arkashka Menok, who ruined his own household with various absurd exchanges of things ...

    On the basis of the foregoing, and calling on the said distinguished authors as witnesses, I declare "Bread with bran"- as you please write, only the lowered drunkenness - lumpen ate! But there was a log of this kind of subjects both in the USSR and in present-day Russia.
    Those who, under the Sovereign Emperor, wanted to work and worked, did not drink - they had quite an acceptable income and standard of living.
    The rest is the ideological tales of the Bolsheviks, designed to justify the "Greatest Tragedy of Our Motherland" arranged by them (the Bolsheviks) ...
    My regards hi
    1. mat-vey
      mat-vey 9 January 2021 12: 36
      +4
      Quote: Abrosimov Sergey Olegovich
      The rest is the ideological tales of the Bolsheviks, designed to justify the "Greatest Tragedy of Our Motherland" arranged by them (the Bolsheviks) ...

      In February 1917, the number of Bolsheviks was 24 thousand people.
    2. Obliterator
      Obliterator 9 January 2021 12: 47
      0
      Quote: Abrosimov Sergey Olegovich
      On the basis of the foregoing and calling the above-mentioned highly respected authors as witnesses, I declare "Bread with Bran" - as you please write, only the downed drunken lumpen ate! But there were logs of this kind both in the USSR and in present-day Russia.

      Yes, everywhere it is. In Tsarist Russia, if a worker had a qualification, then he earned as it should. The shop foreman of the Sestroretsk arms factory Yemelyanov, with whom Lenin hid from the Provisional Government, received very decently.
    3. bk0010
      bk0010 9 January 2021 14: 07
      +8
      Quote: Abrosimov Sergey Olegovich
      Those who, under the Sovereign Emperor, wanted to work and worked, did not drink - they had quite an acceptable income and standard of living.
      No. Most of the population were peasants. They lived almost by subsistence farming. They lived poorly and hungry, as there were a lot of people and there was not enough land in the central provinces, and the yield was low, since the peasants did not have money to increase it due to the same low yield. The delights of feudalism, so to speak. And the Bolsheviks had to clean up this mountain of problems, and not only by collectivization, but also by increasing the marketability of agriculture, by what happened in other countries during the transition to capitalism.
    4. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 9 January 2021 16: 09
      +5
      Quote: Abrosimov Sergey Olegovich
      Those who, under the Sovereign Emperor, wanted to work and worked, did not drink - they had quite an acceptable income and standard of living.
      The rest is the ideological tales of the Bolsheviks,

      Yeah, you can also remember Uncle Gilyai, who worked at one time at a factory, where workers died like flies.
    5. Sugar Honeyovich
      Sugar Honeyovich 9 January 2021 17: 10
      +3
      Quote: Abrosimov Sergey Olegovich
      The episode described by Gorky indicates something completely different - those who worked, managed their money rationally and DIDN'T get drunk far from starving and didn’t eat bread with bran at all !!!

      But on the whole, Gorky shows an almost outright drunkenness - detente on a day off after a week of "hard labor". And in general, the life of the workers in "Mother" is such that every day - approaching the grave and death, as a rule, at 50 years old. And all this: drunkenness with wild fights, a short life - a consequence of the fact that they worked hard.
      The same is with Sholokhov. He has those who from the poor became rich, but suspiciously many eternal poor. And not necessarily Manok and Shchukar. Maidannikov, Ushakov, Lyubishkin, Khoprov, Borshchev are not at all lazy and not armless. And the rich, as shown in the same place, did not necessarily amass wealth by their labor, but by various bad methods, up to crime.
      Quote: Abrosimov Sergey Olegovich
      Quiet Don "and" How the Steel Was Tempered "by Mikhail Alexandrovich Sholokhov.

      Yakov Lukich is not "Quiet Don", but "How the Steel Was Tempered" - not Sholokhov. lol
      1. Abrosimov Sergey Olegovich
        Abrosimov Sergey Olegovich 9 January 2021 19: 52
        0
        Quote: Sahar Medovich
        Yakov Lukich is not "Quiet Don", but "How the Steel Was Tempered" - not Sholokhov.


        Yes, indeed, Yakov Lukich - Virgin Soil Upturned. Wrong. Sorry.
    6. ANB
      ANB 10 January 2021 00: 30
      0
      ... Now let us turn to the immortal and truly Great "Quiet Don" and "How the Steel Was Tempered" by Mikhail Alexandrovich Sholokhov.

      "How the Steel Was Tempered" Nikolai Ostrovsky wrote.
  • Stirbjorn
    Stirbjorn 9 January 2021 12: 06
    +4
    Quote: mat-vey
    The order to surrender was given personally by the general, who did not want to shed more Russian blood in a completely senseless struggle.

    And before that, the general was counting on something there? With an army of several hundred, wanted the Red Army to win at the end of the war? Nobleness to me too
  • Phil77
    Phil77 9 January 2021 13: 16
    -1
    Quote: Astra wild2
    underpants

    More details, huh? And what? An evil * sea cat * will come laughing
  • Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 9 January 2021 13: 18
    0
    They may say to me that Putin is an oligarch's protege, and I will say: there are certain financial circles behind him, but another group is "hungry" and it is eager to get a "sweet pie" in every possible way, but what do you think: Rutenberg and others will want to give: "acquired by the overwhelming labor "(c).
    I will not be happy if one of them does not bring mercenaries to defend their goods.
    Do you think that the "time of troubles" is gone forever?
    Come on, minus, trample me!
    1. Phil77
      Phil77 9 January 2021 13: 50
      +7
      Quote: Astra wild2
      Rutenberg

      Vera! These are * brutes **, where did ** grandmothers * come from? Yes, not even ** beaten off *. in the nineties, believe me !!!!! this is PASSED now, today, with you !!! Who is the roof? Well ... think, huh ????
    2. Undecim
      Undecim 10 January 2021 01: 12
      +4
      trample me!
      But!
      1. Astra wild2
        Astra wild2 10 January 2021 08: 37
        0
        How did those who DO NOT READ EVEN react. AND THINK HARD WORK !!!
  • Phil77
    Phil77 9 January 2021 15: 36
    +2
    Quote: Phil77
    Quote: bk0010
    Russia is the only country

    My friend! Russia is the only country where it is. There are many! Moscow;

    And how much do the Russians have to pay so that these would come ?? !!
    1. Phil77
      Phil77 9 January 2021 15: 46
      +4
      Quote: Phil77
      arrived

      So, really, I have nothing against this respected working people. .but. live at home, huh?!?
      1. Phil77
        Phil77 9 January 2021 15: 56
        +2
        Quote: Phil77
        arrived

        At home, is the right better? Live there, eh ,?
  • Abrosimov Sergey Olegovich
    Abrosimov Sergey Olegovich 9 January 2021 16: 02
    -6
    Quote: bk0010
    And the Bolsheviks had to clean up this mountain of problems, and not only by collectivization, but also by an increase in the marketability of agriculture, by what happened in other countries during the transition to capitalism.


    Yes, the Bolsheviks raked it out very quickly and radically - having destroyed the peasantry as a class, the village sat down with blood ...
    Read Sholokhov !!!
  • Phil77
    Phil77 9 January 2021 16: 06
    0
    Quote: Phil77
    Live there, huh?

    Did you move on to Naziism? Oh? It happens, but ..
    1. Phil77
      Phil77 9 January 2021 16: 13
      +3
      Quote: Phil77
      It happens

      Damn! I want, I want to see a Russian janitor at my house!
      1. aleksejkabanets
        aleksejkabanets 10 January 2021 00: 15
        +2
        Quote: Phil77
        Damn! I want, I want to see a Russian janitor at my house!

        You will have to move to the province. Our salaries are such that representatives of the Central Asian republics do not come to us.
  • vladcub
    vladcub 9 January 2021 16: 19
    +4
    Comrades, Astra is right: "not quite an officer", we read: "" a full St. George knight for battles on the German ", ie Strod had 4 St. George crosses." The badge of the military order of the St. George cross was awarded to LOWER ranks. "
    Due to the large decline in officers in WWI, the school of warrant officers began to accept ALL bm. Educated. Consequently, Strod is a "wartime officer", which means he is not one of the "nobility".
    Remember, in the Second World War there were also: "accelerated courses for command personnel" ._ Once I knew a front-line soldier: "wartime lieutenant" he had an incomplete secondary education and was enrolled in a military school.
    So she deserves +
    1. mat-vey
      mat-vey 9 January 2021 16: 24
      +3
      And how does Frunze's "not an officer" look against this background ..
      1. vladcub
        vladcub 9 January 2021 17: 07
        +4
        Do you know this concept: "unique"? Nei was not an officer either. And Stalin was a priest by education, not a politician and statesman. So: "Do not confess the ways of the Lord"
        1. mat-vey
          mat-vey 9 January 2021 17: 10
          +1
          Quote: vladcub
          Do you know this concept: "unique"?

          This is about Zhukov, Rokosovsky, Timoshenko ...
          1. vladcub
            vladcub 9 January 2021 17: 25
            +2
            In fact, Zhuko is a vice non-commissioned officer, Tymoshenko is a sergeant, Budyonny is also a sergeant, that is, they were military
            1. mat-vey
              mat-vey 9 January 2021 17: 31
              +2
              Quote: vladcub
              i.e. they were military

              Well, so "not quite officers", as it sounded here, so the academies were not called in their honor ...
              If a person has military talent, and even more so he is "unique" - the title is a matter of time, well, if only there is an opportunity to appear ... And when the overwhelming majority of officers are by the right of noble birth, then go forever in non-commissioned officers ... with rare exceptions and then in the second generation more often.
    2. Sugar Honeyovich
      Sugar Honeyovich 9 January 2021 18: 35
      0
      Quote: vladcub
      The badge of the military order of the St. George Cross was awarded to the LOWER ranks. "

      And the officers too.
    3. Free wind
      Free wind 9 January 2021 19: 36
      +1
      Only yesterday someone, hiding behind a woman's name, turned out to be not quite a woman, as it is a little unpleasant, as it were, to call women women.
  • vladcub
    vladcub 9 January 2021 18: 18
    +1
    Quote: Phil77
    Quote: Phil77
    hat to the people, by whom

    For what? For patience .... and so on.

    Zyuganov is primarily responsible for this. Who among us poses as the people's defender: Putin or Zyuganov? Who declared himself that the people perceive him as Lenin and Stalin rolled into one?
    Who was delighted that "Tsar Boris" invited him to a tea party in the 90s, and then: "It was enough for at least one to say:" Enough "and everything would have stopped." But the leader of the Communist Party decided that drinking tea was more important.
    UNTIL AN ADEQUATE OPPOSITION LEADER APPEARS IT WILL BE.
  • vladcub
    vladcub 9 January 2021 18: 23
    +1
    Quote: Phil77
    Quote: Astra wild2
    underpants

    More details, huh? And what? An evil * sea cat * will come laughing

    Actually, Kostya does not prey on emotional ladies. So do not be confused, otherwise she will cry.
  • vladcub
    vladcub 9 January 2021 18: 29
    +3
    Quote: Aviator_
    water problems

    Is it winter in Siberia?

    Kharluzhny has something else that happens
    1. Free wind
      Free wind 9 January 2021 19: 42
      0
      Maybe this will happen, anything can happen. Rain in Lesosibirsk for New Year, And forty-second of January
  • CTABEP
    CTABEP 9 January 2021 23: 01
    -2
    If you do not read the stupid coves telling about the evil / substitute the right side / - the main trouble of the Civil was that really active, smart and brave people on both sides of the front cut each other. Everything else, like everything that follows, is also sad (there are many in the comments of fighters with the "French roll", who for the most part would have been shot), but in terms of losses of the Russian people, the GW itself is probably no less a tragedy than the Second World War.
    PS Yes, I'm waiting for my warning, but I can't name such people in any other way.
  • Abrosimov Sergey Olegovich
    Abrosimov Sergey Olegovich 10 January 2021 10: 12
    0
    Quote: ANB
    ... Now let us turn to the immortal and truly Great "Quiet Don" and "How the Steel Was Tempered" by Mikhail Alexandrovich Sholokhov.

    "How the Steel Was Tempered" Nikolai Ostrovsky wrote.


    Yes, you are right, Ostrovsky. Above, I have already apologized for my inattention. meant "Quiet Don" and "Virgin Soil Upturned" hi
    Once again, I apologize for the mistake.

    However, this does not change the creature.