Military Review

Borey-Bulava: volley left, but hard questions remain

533
Borey-Bulava: volley left, but hard questions remain

A salvo of Borey and a minesweeper thrown to rot. The problem here is that Borey need there was this minesweeper.


12.12.2020 (15:30). Department of Information and Mass Communications (DIMK) of the RF Ministry of Defense:

Pacific nuclear submarine fleet For the first time, Vladimir Monomakh launched four Bulava ballistic missiles from the Sea of ​​Okhotsk. A salvo launch of missiles was carried out from a submerged position from the Sea of ​​Okhotsk at the Chizha training ground in the Arkhangelsk region.

The flight of the Bulava ballistic missiles took place in the normal mode.

According to the confirmed data of objective control, the missile warheads have successfully arrived in a given area of ​​the Chizha battlefield.


"Vladimir Monomakh" goes to shoot "Bulava".



The volley went!

For the first time, the question of prolonged non-firing of Bulava at the Pacific Fleet was raised in the media on October 22, 2018 in the article “What to ask“ Ash ”? Nuclear submarines keep the fleet on a starvation diet ".

Megaproject of the newest stories is the program "Borey" - "Bulava". Many copies have been broken about its expediency.

In fact, we have that six years after the completion of state tests of the lead boat and three years after the redeployment of the first serial ship to the Pacific Fleet, not a single firing of Bulava SLBMs from the Pacific Ocean was carried out either from the Alexander Nevsky or Vladimir Monomakh. ...

The article caused a significant resonance in society and among specialists. And also an extremely painful reaction in the Main Command of the Navy and the Ministry of Defense (DIMK).

The continuation was after the exercise "Thunder-2019", where the "Pacific" shooting "Bulava" announced by the officials of the Ministry of Defense did not take place - "Problematic" Thunder-2019 ". What is “wrong” in the recent exercises of the strategic nuclear forces of the Russian Federation? ".

The main question is different - why was it necessary to "drive" the newest SN RPLs into an unprepared base, moreover, into the zone of overwhelming domination of anti-submarine forces of the "so-called partners", with extremely weak anti-submarine and simply non-combatable anti-mine forces of the Pacific Fleet?

On March 17, 2020 there was a publication in the author's blog "Kamchatka" Borei "are preparing to fire" Bulava ":

Taking into account the "wild" and unacceptable situation of such a long break in the practical missile firing of the SNR submarines of the Navy's combat strength, with a very high probability, it should be assumed that in 2020 at least one missile firing "Bulava" from the Pacific Fleet (on the battlefield of Chizha).

Of course, this is very positive, and it is highly likely that this shooting will be successful (given its importance and the appropriate support from the industry).

According to available information, this time everything went smoothly: both on the Vladimir Monomakh and with the Bulava and their warheads, up to Chizhi. If all this is true, then the crew and developers can and should be congratulated.

However, uncomfortable questions about our NSNF remain. Moreover, they are the main ones.

First. Why do we need naval strategic nuclear forces (NSNF)?


Quoting from a previously published article:

The key factor that makes it necessary to deploy strategic weapons on sea carriers (in the difficult physical and geographical conditions of their use and the significant superiority of the enemy's anti-submarine forces) is it is the vulnerability of the ground-based component of the NSNF to a sudden nuclear (!) "disarming" strike.

That is, even one, but guaranteed not to be tracked by an SNR with SLBMs, excluding the possibility of such a strike, is an extremely important strategic and political factor. And the main thing here is not the "number of warheads" of the NSNF, but its combat stability. That is, figuratively speaking, for the NSNF (as a system) "Bulava" is secondary to the issues of stealth, hydroacoustics, sea underwater weapons etc.

The quantitative basis of our strategic nuclear forces should be precisely the Strategic Missile Forces. And the role of NSNF is a necessary but auxiliary mechanism of strategic deterrence.

Given the enemy's enormous superiority in naval theaters, and his effective anti-submarine forces, the opinion about the need to carry most of the deployed delivery vehicles and warheads into the sea is nothing more than information sabotage (which was very successfully imposed on us in the 90s within the framework of START II Treaty).

At the same time, it is necessary to clearly understand that the formulation of "task No. 1" to our general-purpose naval forces (MSNF) as a cover for the NSNF actually cuts the possibility of conducting successful (active) hostilities (because the entire initiative is given to the enemy).

It is characteristic that the US Navy has received with great satisfaction the deployment in our country since the beginning of the 70s. intercontinental SLBMs, realizing that the offensive activity of the USSR Navy will thereby be largely curtailed in favor of the passive task of "covering NSNF in the bastions."

Second. The number of missiles in a salvo


At first glance, a lot of shooting and a lot of rockets is very good. However, when the issue is considered comprehensively, everything turns out to be more complicated.

The problem is that a submarine ballistic missile (SLBM) is not just an expensive item, but a very expensive item. Specific data on domestic SLBMs were not provided.

However, according to Western counterparts (for example, UGM-133A Trident II), the corresponding price tags are close to the cost of combat aircraft. In other words, a four-missile salvo of new SLBMs is very cool and expensive (a rough analogue, is tantamount: simultaneously smashing four new Su-35s on the ground).

It is necessary not only to realize that resources for the purchase of weapons are limited, but also that they are not taken out of thin air, but redistributed among other defense spending.

For example, parachute targets were used to conduct State tests of the new Pantsir-M air defense missile system. That is, with targets in the fleet, extreme poverty. But at the same time, a "mace-rocket feast" is going on nearby, where money and resources "flow like a river" ...
It must be understood that there was no military or technical sense in this 4-rocket salvo.

Or was it?

Project 955 has already made a four-rocket salvo.

Or did he make it so that

"Had to repeat"?

Here you can recall the film "Military Acceptance" on the Kamchatka "Boreys" (from the video from the missile compartment of "Alexander Nevsky" it is clear that he fired a two-missile salvo from neighboring mines located near the midship of the submarine (accordingly, there is reason to think about shooting a salvo , to put it mildly, were feared).


In the end, it would have been much more reasonable to fire both Pacific Boreis (two missiles each).

In addition, in 2020, the Navy (without carrying out the entire volume of necessary tests) pushed the act on the new AICR "Prince Vladimir" (955A is not "955 with the letter A", but actually a new project) - link... This is where a volley was really needed (and not a single launch of an SLBM, as it was in reality)!

In other words, a single launch of SLBMs was quite enough for two Kamchatka "Boreys" (as was done regularly and in accordance with the documents by the old nuclear submarine cruisers (APCR) of the project 667BDR of the 25th division).

Third. Marine underwater weapons (MPS) and countermeasures


From the article “Where is Admiral Evmenov running?»:

In the fall of 2006, the author of this article had a conversation with the Head of the Department of Anti-Submarine Weapons of the Navy (UPV of the Navy), Rear Admiral G.V. Melentyev. (a very ambiguous and extremely cautious person).

Just before the conversation, Melent'ev received a telegram from VA Osipov, General Director of Gidropribor Concern. with "proposals" for the delivery of the head order of project 955 "Yuri Dolgoruky".

The cautious Melentiev was simply "bubbling" with indignation from these "proposals"! And now "a very good question" - why was Yuri Dolgoruky commissioned by the industry? And even more "good" - and with what "Yuri Dolgoruky" today?

A public answer to this question has recently appeared in the form of photographs of loading the USET-80 torpedo junk onto the newest project 955 APCR in Kamchatka (and a photo of a torpedo deck with ammunition) and comments. ( Link).

Today, the "strategist" ammunition includes only one type of naval underwater weapon - the morally and technically obsolete USET-80 torpedoes (even the year of adoption - the 80th, says a lot) ... For today on "Borey" the program is installed only for the use of USET-80 torpedoes).


Loading of the ancient USET-80 torpedoes on the Borey, they are also on its torpedo deck.

Former Deputy Head of the Anti-Submarine Weapons Directorate of the Navy R.A. Gusev wrote:

"Why is USET-80 not MK-48?" Because Zaporozhets is not Chrysler.

That is, we have a wildest situation when an ancient Zaporozhets is located on the newest strategic agro-industrial complex,

the very new modification of "whose brains" were "reproduced on a domestic basis"

from an American torpedo of 1961, the battery of which was made according to an American patent of the 40s, and the chief designer of the engine died back in 1969.

If someone in the Aerospace Forces offered to hang the R-57 guided missiles of the MiG-3 fighter on the Su-21, he would be sent to Kashchenko. And in the valiant Navy, this is the basis of torpedo ammunition.

For the ins and outs of this shameful situation, see."Arctic torpedo scandal" .

One more point should be noted when mentioning the new torpedoes.

The fact that not a single submarine of the Navy received the prize of the Commander-in-Chief for torpedo training with torpedoes "Physicist-1" (despite its formally high characteristics) clearly speaks not even of the difficulties with the development and development of new weapons, but in fact about the inability of the Navy solve this problem.

This issue will be discussed in more detail later in the article devoted to how the Physicist torpedo was created and killed (of course, based on open data).

It is no better with countermeasures (and anti-torpedo protection).

Rear Admiral A. Lutsky, retired, wrote ("Marine collection" No. 7 for 2010):

It is proposed to equip the Yasen and Borey submarines under construction with PTZ systems, the technical specifications for the development of which were drawn up back in the 80s of the last century, the results of studies of the effectiveness of these means against modern torpedoes indicate an extremely low probability of not hitting the evading submarine.

From the article "APKR" Severodvinsk "was commissioned to the Navy with critical deficiencies for combat effectiveness. There is no anti-torpedo protection for submarines ":

The country has invested enormous funds in new submarines. The Borey-Bulava program turned out to be the most expensive in the RF Armed Forces.

There are no technical problems to have effective underwater weapons and countermeasures, and this does not require any prohibitive means. However, these "newest" submarines are simply "naked" in front of the enemy's weapons, while they themselves have a lot of shortcomings and defects in their underwater weapons.

Here it is appropriate to recall that the Knyaz Vladimir APRK of the latest project 955A was commissioned by the Navy industry without any real tests of countermeasures.

The mastering of anti-torpedoes “Lasta” by our submarine has been disrupted. Rear-Admiral Lutsky wrote above about the extremely low efficiency of the "Module-D" complex (declared on the "Boreys", according to the official information of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation on "Army-2015").

Moreover, the under a far-fetched pretext, self-propelled anti-torpedo protection devices were removed from the ammunition load of the naval submarines (including the NSNF).

And here already some good questions arise:

"What is it: stupidity or deliberate sabotage and undermining the combat effectiveness of the Russian Navy and Armed Forces? Moreover, undermining precisely the ability to carry out tasks of nuclear deterrence? Who benefits from this? Why is this done? "

Fourth. Ice shooting


Until now, the Russian and Soviet navies have not fired a single torpedo shot under the ice with the homing system turned on.

The enemy regularly conducts special anti-submarine exercises in the Arctic with massive torpedo firing (up to two dozen torpedoes per submarine), in readiness to arrange massacres and unpunished execution of naval submarines (including NSNF) on orders.

Initiative officers of the Navy raised the issue of conducting such firing many times. That's just one example.


However, this did not arouse interest in the command of the Navy, as a result of which the question was voiced publicly. For example:

"Defense order" 2013 No. 3 "Torpedoes go under the ice", Mikhail Komarov, Doctor of Military Sciences, Professor, Vladimir Polenin, Doctor of Military Sciences, Professor.

November 05.04.2019, XNUMX
"NVO" "ICEX - the Arctic threat to Russia"
"Arctic torpedo scandal" .

Rear Admiral (Ret.) V.Ya. Dudko (interview to FAN agency):

Until now, the shooting necessary for this has not really been carried out, although the Americans do it all the time. But such proposals have been prepared and, if necessary, can be implemented.

However, everything turned out to be much worse. And the "bottom" of the Navy was "pierced". Both in 2019 and in 2020: the Navy was never able to conduct such firing.

"Why shoot if you can lie?"

Including top management.

No. 312/4/4421 of 15.05.2019. The handling of information on the state of the submarine forces of the Navy and the Northern Fleet, received by the Administration of the President of the Russian Federation, has been reviewed by the Main Operations Directorate of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation.

This situation is not true.

I. Dylevsky, Deputy Head of the General Staff School.

Of course, the GOU GSH did not come up with this fig leaf itself (although it participated). Obviously, its basis was

"Gallant report of the Navy",

having nothing to do with reality.

Fifth. Anti-submarine support


The anti-submarine support of the Kamchatka Boreyevs is two ancient IPC project 1124M that have not undergone even minimal modernization. New corvettes to replace them, Project 20380, for modern submarines are "game" (and not "hunters" for them).

Anti-submarine aviation?

New IL-38N with Novella? Without even touching on the fact that Novella as a search and targeting system was outdated back in the 90s (while this is the only really working and relatively modern complex in our country), the fleet received it in a “castrated form”.

Just a question: "Where are the new novel buoys in government procurement?" Antiquity of the RSL-16M type is purchased in commercial quantities and for a very considerable price tag. But their range on modern low-noise submarines is several hundred (!) Meters. This long-known fact was accidentally exposed in the advertising materials of "Radar-MMS".

The problem was solved simply and effectively: instead of modifying the complex ("Kasatka") to meet modern requirements, these numbers were simply removed from the advertisement. At the same time, the situation itself no longer raises questions when an organization ("Radar-MMS"), which has not developed or handed over to the customer a single search and targeting system, is appointed the head of the Naval Aviation for them. As they say, the commander of the Naval Aviation, Mr. Kozhin, who is leaving for a well-deserved rest, has already prepared a good place there.

Individual tests on a topic similar to modern Western aviation search and sighting systems cause us a shock, because very bad conclusions suggest themselves regarding the survival of submarines. Moreover, in the West, all this has long been mastered (since the 90s)

"Routine of combat training."


Our submarine may have at least zero noise, but it will still be detected due to low-frequency acoustic illumination (up to aviation buoys).

There is an opinion that one of the main reasons for the apparent slowdown in the development of effective anti-submarine weapons in our country was that their effectiveness raised very inconvenient questions about the unrestrained infusion of funds (and their development by effective managers) into obsolete (and relatively easily detectable) submarine projects.

It should also be mentioned about the practically destruction of the topic of "non-traditional search means" in our country.

Head of the Department of Advanced Design, Central Research Institute. Krylov Andrey Vasiliev recalled the deputy commander-in-chief of the USSR Navy for shipbuilding and armaments, Admiral Fyodor Novoselov:

“At the meeting, he did not give the floor to the head of the institute, who was eager to talk about experiments to detect the surfaced trace of a submarine using the radar.

Much later, at the end of 1989, I asked him why he dismissed this question.

Fedor Ivanovich replied: "I know about this effect, it is impossible to defend against such detection, so why upset our submariners?"

What do we have in the end?

Borei in the Sea of ​​Okhotsk.

Rear Admiral V. Ya. Dudko (one of the most successful submariners of the USSR Navy, who successfully discovered the Ohio SSBN and disrupted its first deployment in 1982):

From the point of view of the General Staff, it was a protected area, since it seemed that it allowed the deployment of anti-submarine defense forces in the shortest possible time. But, from the point of view of the secrecy of the PKK SN, ... is an open and very favorable area, which allows for long-term and covert tracking of our ships at great distances.

Our command and we, so we were taught and hammered into our heads, believed that the PKK SN is not vulnerable…. A unique tracking experience, completely new ways to check the lack of tracking of our missile carriers, which, unfortunately, no one was interested either because of their employment, or did not believe, or did not want to recognize the low secrecy of the PKK SN in the "protected" areas ...

Sixth. Mine support


At the moment, the Russian Navy includes 11 RPK SN, deployed in the Pacific Fleet and the Northern Fleet.

At the same time, in the combat composition of these fleets a month ago there was no no one modern anti-mine ship (PMK). Moreover, there was not a single modern anti-mine underwater vehicle in the ranks.

In order to report to the President, a new PMK "Yakov Balyaev" of project 12700 was dragged to the Pacific Fleet urgently along the Northern Sea Route.

"They covered their nakedness with a fig leaf."

And the problem is not even that “I. Balyaev "alone. The problem is that the ships of Project 12700 have an absolutely outdated concept (which would have looked good in the 80s of the last century), but today it is

"Ships to the very first bottom mine with a modern fuse"

(on which either the secondary battery itself or its only mine action apparatus will be blown up).

Note. The issues of the critical state of the mine defense of the Navy will be considered in one of the upcoming articles, including because the arguments of the publications of the Military Review (articles "What is wrong with our minesweepers?" и "What's" wrong "with the newest PMK project 12700") were used by a group of "representatives of military science" in a publication in one of the specialized publications, and in a very incorrect form (with a distortion of their meaning). Accordingly, an analysis on this topic is needed both for revealing the existing problems of the PMO and for our "military science".

And that is not all.

One has only to carry out tests similar to the American "shock trials" (where all the ships pass through them), and we will just have a "complete shock".


For they will end with catastrophic results not only for practically all ships of new projects, but also for the "newest PMK" project 12700. And all specialists are well aware of this! And therefore

"In no case should such tests be carried out" - at the parade our "ships" are so beautiful (and "perhaps there will be no war")!

There are technical solutions to these problems. However, the use of them fully (and not a palliative of the type of spiral-cable shock absorbers) does not give the naval

"Ostrich sticking its head in the sand"

from serious problems.

By the way, it is this problem that explains the actual sabotage of the work with "Last". The wildness of the situation is that it can be confidently asserted that "Right now" "Last" (for example, with a non-standard launcher on the superstructure for target designation of the station "Arfa-M") can reliably and confidently use the old "Warsaw" of project 877 (according to the new - open question).

Moreover, the old "Ryazan" of Project 667BDR will most likely be able to do this. But the newest "Borei" and "Ash" for some reason turn out to be unable to do what they are obliged to do well under the project and state contract. And what did the old boats of the second generation of the USSR Navy do normally?

The answer is simple. Then they did not hide from problems, did not "sweep them under the plinth." And let not all, but the majority decided. And now - at the head of the corner
“Parade, PR and hockey”.


conclusions


The conclusions from all this will be very tough.

The key requirement for NSNF is high combat stability... In the case of the Russian Navy, it is a fiction. Both for technical reasons and, first of all, for organizational reasons.

In fact, we have simply, as they say, scored on the combat stability of the NSNF: torpedoes, countermeasures and new means of searching for submarines, defense of naval bases.

Allegedly, the newest AICRs are accepted by the Navy with ancient and non-working underwater weapons, without protection and with critical design flaws of the ships.

At the same time, a large-scale PR campaign was launched to advertise the allegedly high efficiency of our submarine forces. It is addressed not only to society, but also to the highest political leadership. At the same time, for the submarine (and especially for the Bulava and Borei), the country pours simply colossal funds, which are mastered by effective managers in the industry.

The "role of the fleet" here is "not to interfere with this process"

(thanks for what will be

"Warm and satisfying place"

after the fleet).

With all this, we have extremely acute problems in a number of areas of military development (starting with fifth generation fighters and AWACS in the Air Force, armored vehicles and ammunition in the ground forces and the same minesweepers and targets in the Navy).

The NSNF of the Pacific Fleet, deployed in the zone of dominance of the enemy's anti-submarine forces, in fact, have practically no combat value:

• there is no anti-mine and anti-submarine support;
• there are no new torpedoes (which is - antique "firewood");
• there are no new missiles (anti-ship missiles and PLR);
• no anti-torpedo protection.

Despite the scandal with the complete absence of under-ice torpedo firing, the Navy showed complete incapacity to move this issue off the ground.

With the unrestrained infusion of funds into the NSNF (and into the “second NSNF” with the Poseidon) and in the show with the Bulava, the Navy resembles a subject in an expensive frock coat, but at the same time in torn trousers and barefoot.

But in the reports of the fleet -

Full hockey.

In this situation, the question arises about the advisability of such generous funding of the NSNF.

Yes, the Strategic Missile Forces have their own difficulties. (The same formulation of the question on the BZHRK is actually a recognition of the problems with the combat stability of mine and mobile soil complexes).

But at least the Strategic Missile Forces are not hiding from problems. And one way or another they strive to solve them (and not hide them, as in the Navy).

This does not in any way negate the need for NSNF in principle. As a means of guaranteed retaliation.

Alas, today it is not absolutely guaranteed.
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  1. Terenin
    Terenin 9 January 2021 04: 38
    -22%
    Borey-Bulava: volley left, but hard questions remain
    for me, as an ordinary layman, the main thing is "the volley is gone!"... And, the dependence of the military-industrial complex, their coordination ... this is the daily service ...
    1. Commissar77
      Commissar77 9 January 2021 05: 02
      +11
      Strategic submarines cannot be multipurpose by definition.
      You can't stuff everything into one submarine. Look at partners - Virginia and Los Angeles (Seawulf). Each boat has its own niche (specialization).
      1. Commissar77
        Commissar77 9 January 2021 05: 15
        +10
        Ohio - strategists
        Virginia - multipurpose
        1. Stas157
          Stas157 9 January 2021 09: 48
          +44
          The situation is depressing. We have a fleet not for war. And what about the command staff? Is everything all right there?

          I am far from the naval theme, but I recall the famous Syrian tour of the only Russian aircraft carrier. He came to war with an incomplete air wing and sank two aircraft (his own). It is noteworthy that for some reason this incomplete air wing performed its combat mission for the most part from a ground airfield. Why, one wonders, did they drive Kuzya to distant lands? Show the world Cousin efficiency in all its glory? Well, well, it turned out very well!

          And what is typical, for such demonstrations and the destruction of their planes, the bosses were not only not removed, but also awarded. And Kuzya was greeted as a hero, with an orchestra, from a military campaign. It seems that everything suits everyone. Admirals are comfortable in warm places and are not interested in combat effectiveness. And the rest just throw their hats up!
          1. Soko
            Soko 9 January 2021 10: 14
            +36
            Quote: Stas157
            We have a fleet not for war. And what about the command staff? Is everything all right there?

            Often, the command staff is very comfortable with life, and they do not want to change anything.
            1. The comment was deleted.
              1. The comment was deleted.
                1. Stas157
                  Stas157 9 January 2021 15: 22
                  +2
                  Quote: IGOR GORDEEV
                  Alas in this regard we are really lagging behind the so-called. west - there can be any "talking head" come to power, but from this the essence of the system will not change.

                  Are you afraid of changing the system or what? Does the current one suit you? We just need that broom that will take revenge in a new way. Systemically.
                  1. IGOR GORDEEV
                    IGOR GORDEEV 9 January 2021 22: 47
                    +11
                    Quote: Stas157
                    Quote: IGOR GORDEEV
                    Alas in this regard we are really lagging behind the so-called. west - there can be any "talking head" come to power, but from this the essence of the system will not change.

                    Are you afraid of changing the system or what? Does the current one suit you? We just need that broom that will take revenge in a new way. Systemically.

                    Am I afraid to play in a casino with a big bet for me? At least this is unreasonable :) You propose - let's put the only apartment on "zero" - we will lose well, okay, and you can live in the forest. Well, if we win! ..
                    A broom that sweeps systematically and well just like that from a vacuum will not arise - prerequisites are needed for this. But in our world everything is relative - for someone it was normal in the 90s, and for someone it was a solid black stripe.
                    1. Stas157
                      Stas157 10 January 2021 10: 54
                      -7
                      Quote: IGOR GORDEEV
                      You offer - let's put the only apartment on "zero" - we will lose well, okay, and you can live in the forest

                      Communists, that they want to take away your apartment? Are you an oligarch or what ??

                      If you are in a bad situation, where you are treated unfairly, where poor craftsmanship and a large part of your labor is appropriated ... do you really not want to change the disgusting situation?
                      1. Vadim237
                        Vadim237 10 January 2021 15: 56
                        +6
                        Communists, that they want to take away your apartment? And what has to do with the communists - they have been gone for a long time, that is, all sorts of populists balabolists and imitators of communists who hide behind a red rag to achieve exclusively their goals, namely, the construction of a road to the feeding trough and no matter how beautiful pre-election speeches they did not make your brain - they are on you and your problems deeply shit in politics go first of all for enrichment and it will be so everywhere and always.
                      2. hydrox
                        hydrox 12 January 2021 10: 38
                        +2
                        There is nothing to be done here: the entire senior composition of the fleets began their service and were brought up under the conditions of the highest level of naval theft, in the 90s, when warships WITH WEAPONS were sold abroad on needles - that's when the naval elite was educated in the naval headquarters.
                        And today they steal as they breathe.
                        Therefore, in the fleets (and even more so in the General Staff School, it is necessary to build a brick wall and declare 1937 - otherwise we will remain naked in front of the enemy.
                        "And where did the fleets go?" - "And their enemies drowned - unarmed, innocent and unrequited."
                        And the President will be guilty many times before the naval and before the people for not doing what he is supposed to do as Commander-in-Chief - organizing the combat stability of the fleets as a kind of strategic nuclear forces.
                2. MstislavHrabr
                  MstislavHrabr 10 January 2021 19: 31
                  +4
                  Under the Soviet regime, there was such a saying: "Change 3 chairmen on a collective farm in a year and the collective farm will receive a P-C" ... In our country, a sharp change of the upper ranks has never led to good ...
              2. seregatara1969
                seregatara1969 9 January 2021 19: 53
                +2
                how could a volley have gone? it sounds like "the sound of a shot of a duck hunter is gone". this is illiterate
                1. Maximilian37
                  Maximilian37 10 January 2021 23: 39
                  +1
                  Che you got to the bottom of the little things? Nothing else to do? Don't be afraid to tell yourself that you made a "shot"?
              3. IC
                IC 10 January 2021 10: 43
                +2
                As for the Armed Forces, the new broom basically introduces a new form of uniform. Shoigu is most effective here. Some ceremonial uniforms, which are worth. And doubly for the Navy. White and black. Everything else is compensated by the annual parade in St. Petersburg for the president.
            2. Xnumx vis
              Xnumx vis 9 January 2021 17: 47
              -8
              Bro! fellow You are the correct American Maine! fool Bomb zero and his people! laughing
            3. gurzuf
              gurzuf 10 January 2021 20: 22
              +2
              And what makes you so annoying about "irreplaceability"? Pay attention to the turnover in / on or do you think that we will not be like that when the "turnover" comes? I assure you - it will be even worse.
        2. Bez 310
          Bez 310 9 January 2021 10: 25
          +27
          Quote: Stas157
          Admirals are comfortable in warm places ...

          You understand everything correctly!
          I had to communicate with admirals in the service
          at the level of Deputy Commander of the Fleet and above,
          up to the Civil Code of the Navy inclusive. Only
          casual commander of a submarine division, and that is because
          just got the rank of admiral.
          1. Bez 310
            Bez 310 9 January 2021 10: 32
            +36
            Quote: Bez 310
            casual submarine division commander

            Frenzied growth
            The War Council ended. We were allowed to go home to our taiga garrison. Fly on An-12 for about two hours. "Sailors" are flying with us, they have also run out of their Military Council, but they have to fly to Kamchatka, we have a gas station in the garrison.

            Everyone is tired, stoned, waiting for departure under the plane. The crew came and launched us into the cockpit. The commander and I are aviation people, we know how to fly on airplanes, so we took a place in the pressurized cabin near the table.

            All doors were closed, the pre-flight fuss began. And we slowly get bread, bacon, sausage, and vodka. Everything you need to while away two hours of flight. "Bortach" gave us glasses, we had everything else. Go.

            The people around us looked into our mouths with envy, but we are familiar, everyone dies alone. One "caprice", who all the time pretended that he was more than a "capraz", crawled to the table, asked permission to "fall on the tail." We are not greedy, we treated the "sailor".

            While we were drinking and eating, we already arrived. We went to their native land, had to remember that the chief, to organize refueling and sending the board to Kamchatka. Due to the weather, the board did not go to Kamchatka, gave the command to accommodate passengers for the night, and went home.

            In the morning I came to work, Saturday, and began to push this An-12 to Kamchatka. There the weather is not to hell, they resist, fly there for three hours, with spare problems. I somehow persuaded the Kamchadals to take an airplane, now the main task is to collect passengers.

            The head of the command post went to collect the passengers, the commander and I discussed something in his office. Here yesterday's "capraz" breaks into the office, which we treated to during the flight. And not one, but two bottles of vodka breaks in, and shouts that he has decided to "distribute the debts." He did not owe us so much, but we do not kick out.

            Moreover, something in it, or rather on it, has changed since yesterday evening. And the shoulder straps have changed. Yesterday he was in the capraza's uniform, and today - in the admiral's. The commander immediately reacted: "Well, you damn it, you are growing!". Everything is simple, the admiral justified himself, yesterday at the Military Council they presented shoulder straps, did not have time to attach them. In short, yesterday you treated me like a human being, let's wash off the title quickly.

            I referred to the lack of a snack. The admiral, seeing a dozen lingonberries lying lonely on a saucer, said that a wedding could be played with this snack. The admiral was persistent and assertive. In 40 minutes, he poured two bottles of vodka into us with almost no snack, and I took him to the plane.

            A good admiral, no nonsense, "of ours will be."
            1. Boa kaa
              Boa kaa 9 January 2021 14: 35
              +17
              Quote: Bez 310
              A good admiral, no nonsense, "of ours will be."

              Admiral's rank is not a career step. This is "happiness," as one of my former subordinates explained to me. But that's not what I mean.
              1. How was it possible to sit on the Pacific Fleet's Armed Forces and not see who the shoulder straps are being handed over? Well, that NSh or Zam was not on it - in principle, it is clear. But the commander? He slept there, kemaril. Wild you tofyats, however!
              2. The fact that flyers are by nature "barons" I found out when I returned from Luanda. The commander withdrew from the BS. We, sailors, give our cabins to our guests, showing naval hospitality, but the flyers, they are the first to climb into the pressurized cabin, to the "stove closer" - this cannot be taken away from you. True, the compartment in the Il-76MD is sealed, and we had it with us ... So, we ourselves invited two orphans of the majors to our soapbox so that they would not choke on saliva. Until Chkalovsk flew all about them and learned their life. "Our guys". And we've seen a lot.
              Therefore - descend from heaven, climb out of the lockers of your BAO and learn naval hospitality ... And people will be drawn to you! laughing
              1. Bez 310
                Bez 310 9 January 2021 14: 44
                +8
                Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
                How could you sit on the Pacific Fleet's Armed Forces and not see who the shoulder straps are handed

                We have our own aircraft - the Air Force (MA) of the Pacific Fleet, we do not go to the naval ones.
                Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
                learn naval hospitality ...

                I would tell about the "naval" ... But there is no such section here
                - "About service".
                1. Doliva63
                  Doliva63 10 January 2021 17: 06
                  +1
                  Quote: Bez 310
                  Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
                  How could you sit on the Pacific Fleet's Armed Forces and not see who the shoulder straps are handed

                  We have our own aircraft - the Air Force (MA) of the Pacific Fleet, we do not go to the naval ones.
                  Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
                  learn naval hospitality ...

                  I would tell about the "naval" ... But there is no such section here
                  - "About service".

                  And it ought to be! Military explosions, or what?
                  1. Bez 310
                    Bez 310 10 January 2021 18: 14
                    +4
                    Quote: Doliva63
                    And it ought to be!

                    Yes, I believe that the section "About service" could
                    would and organize this year.
                    I would read it with pleasure, and I myself would
                    could tell something.
                    Yes, and "sofa theorists" would be useful
                    find out how the people served and serve that service.
                    1. Doliva63
                      Doliva63 10 January 2021 18: 25
                      +1
                      Quote: Bez 310
                      Quote: Doliva63
                      And it ought to be!

                      Yes, I believe that the section "About service" could
                      would and organize this year.
                      I would read it with pleasure, and I myself would
                      could tell something.
                      Yes, and "sofa theorists" would be useful
                      find out how the people served and serve that service.

                      I agree. Someone should write a letter to the owner of the resource. And we will put the signatures. I mean "servicemen".
                    2. Bez 310
                      Bez 310 10 January 2021 18: 33
                      +1
                      Quote: Doliva63
                      Someone should write a letter to the owner of the resource.

                      And who is this "person close to the emperor"?
                      Let him write to the "emperor", if not difficult.
                      I haven't been here so long ago, I don't know many ...
                    3. Doliva63
                      Doliva63 10 January 2021 18: 44
                      +2
                      Quote: Bez 310
                      Quote: Doliva63
                      Someone should write a letter to the owner of the resource.

                      And who is this "person close to the emperor"?
                      Let him write to the "emperor", if not difficult.
                      I haven't been here so long ago, I don't know many ...

                      I don’t know those close to me, but a pen-man who knows how to express should write. I only know how to argue and swear request The old-timers, I think, will support.
                2. Captain45
                  Captain45 11 January 2021 13: 40
                  +2
                  Quote: Doliva63
                  And it ought to be! Military explosions, or what?

                  Quote: Bez 310
                  Yes, I believe that the section "About service" could
                  would and organize this year.

                  So there was a section "Tales", where stories about the service were published, but it was probably removed about five years ago, it seems, when the war began in Donbass.
                3. Alexey RA
                  Alexey RA 11 January 2021 16: 29
                  +2
                  Quote: Bez 310

                  Yes, I believe that the section "About service" could
                  would and organize this year.

                  Open a Bigler branch? wink
                4. Bez 310
                  Bez 310 11 January 2021 17: 33
                  0
                  Quote: Alexey RA
                  Open a Bigler branch?

                  Почему нет?
                  "Bigler" is possible, and "VO" is worse?
                  I've been to the Bigler, the number of tales
                  rolls over, and here from serious articles
                  could have a little rest.
                  I'm a stranger here, I don't know local laws,
                  let the bosses think.
        3. Intruder
          Intruder 11 January 2021 06: 05
          +2
          learn naval hospitality ...
          Duc, traditionally the fleet is strong, 7 feet under the keel, bro :), and the flyers are like a draft on the yards !? :)
      2. 210ox
        210ox 9 January 2021 14: 38
        +13
        Hmmm. The ability to drink vodka by no means speaks of the combat capabilities and qualities of this admiral. After all, a simple shirt-guy at a crucial moment can issue such orders .. I don't want to offend anyone. There are different people. Take, for example, the same K. Voroshilov or. S. Budyonny What people! Eh! And they turned out to be a little unprepared for modern war. Especially Klim.
        1. Bez 310
          Bez 310 9 January 2021 14: 49
          +4
          Quote: 210ox
          The ability to drink vodka by no means speaks of the combat capabilities and qualities of this admiral.

          And I'm not talking about that, but only about adequacy
          in the current situation.
        2. Vladimir247
          Vladimir247 11 January 2021 12: 23
          0
          And they turned out to be a little unprepared for modern war ...
          --------
          This is how the perestroika media presented us. But Goth, for example, had a slightly different opinion. And here the question arises: whose point of view is more informative and close to the truth? In my opinion, the answer is obvious. Well, in fact, you cannot pass off the opinion of the idle media as the truth. It is more useful to read memoirs, or even better diaries, there are almost no lies.
      3. dgonni
        dgonni 9 January 2021 20: 29
        0
        Put a plus. It's a pity you can't super. Wangyu year from 84 to 89?
        1. Bez 310
          Bez 310 9 January 2021 20: 54
          -1
          Quote: dgonni
          Put a plus.

          Who?
          And what kind of years have you been "wanging"?
          1. bayard
            bayard 10 January 2021 04: 39
            +1
            I think it's about the year of issue.
            1. Doliva63
              Doliva63 10 January 2021 17: 22
              0
              Quote: bayard
              10

              If you mean Comrade Bez 310, then in the years indicated he was already a colonel, probably laughing
              1. Bez 310
                Bez 310 10 January 2021 18: 15
                -1
                Quote: Doliva63
                colonel was

                Was not...
              2. bayard
                bayard 10 January 2021 18: 33
                +1
                Regiment navigator?
              3. Doliva63
                Doliva63 10 January 2021 18: 33
                0
                Quote: Bez 310
                Quote: Doliva63
                colonel was

                Was not...

                But all, probably, not in the 80s release. I myself am 87 years of age, and my classmate graduated from my own school in 84, and managed to get the underground.
  • BAI
    BAI 9 January 2021 10: 54
    +1
    ... We have a fleet not for war.

    Precisely, for the war. Both in peacetime and in wartime, the number of ships and their weapons will remain unchanged. And to maintain the fleet, which is required for the war, in peacetime Russia is beyond its means. Therefore, we have a surplus fleet for peacetime (with a huge financial burden) and insufficient for war.
    It should be taken into account that the Black Sea Fleet and the Baltic Sea Fleet are kept for the sake of traditions. Their combat value is zero. In case of war, they will be destroyed immediately, most likely within 24 hours - locked in inland seas and are in the range of tactical missiles and aircraft.
    1. Stas157
      Stas157 9 January 2021 11: 06
      +15
      Quote: BAI
      Therefore, we have surplus navy for peacetime

      That is, the fleet in the form that Russia is now even redundant ?? Suddenly! But, the question concerned, first of all, not the quantitative composition, but the quality and combat effectiveness of units (in the literal sense) that we have in service.
    2. Dart2027
      Dart2027 9 January 2021 11: 31
      +7
      Quote: BAI
      It should be borne in mind that the Black Sea Fleet and the Baltic Sea Fleet are kept for the sake of traditions. Their combat value is zero.

      But this is a question.
      Yes, in the event of a war with the same Turkey (suppose this), our fleet will sit under the cover of coastal air defense, as well as their fleet, because any ship that comes out from under the "umbrella" will be showered with everything. But how real is such a war? And what is the fleet to do off the coast of Turkey?
      But a war with Ukraine or Georgia is already real and here the fleet can play its role. as it was in 2008. It's another matter that let's say one of the Atlantes has nothing to do there, enough corvettes and frigates.
      1. Vladimir1155
        Vladimir1155 9 January 2021 15: 13
        -3
        Quote: Dart2027
        It's another matter that let's say one of the Atlantes has nothing to do there, enough corvettes and frigates.

        I agree, but for the sake of the Ukrainians and the Georgians, and even if something happens, the Turks and corvettes with frigates do not need enough MPK MRK
        1. Dart2027
          Dart2027 9 January 2021 16: 48
          +2
          Quote: vladimir1155
          but for the sake of ukrov and Georgians

          The representative function in the SM also needs to be performed, and the demonstration of the flag in the performance of a corvette or frigate is still more solid, so one IRC is still indispensable.
          1. Vladimir1155
            Vladimir1155 9 January 2021 18: 41
            -3
            inquisitive will do
            1. Dart2027
              Dart2027 9 January 2021 18: 43
              +1
              40 years of service. Too much.
              1. Vladimir1155
                Vladimir1155 9 January 2021 18: 43
                -2
                well, for a flag it will do
              2. Dart2027
                Dart2027 9 January 2021 19: 55
                0
                Already it is not suitable for this. It was planned that there will be 6 frigates 11356, in principle enough, the same number of corvettes and the required minimum.
              3. Vladimir1155
                Vladimir1155 9 January 2021 21: 03
                -2
                six frigates are missing in the entire navy so far ... unless you count 1155
              4. Dart2027
                Dart2027 9 January 2021 21: 10
                +2
                Quote: vladimir1155
                there are no frigates in the entire navy so far

                Alas, it is.
  • Alexey RA
    Alexey RA 11 January 2021 16: 33
    +2
    Quote: Dart2027
    But a war with Ukraine or Georgia is already real and here the fleet can play its role. as it was in 2008.

    Uh-huh ... solemnly report on the battle with the Georgian RCA, which ended in someone's sinking. And then hush up this topic, when later both of these RCA were discovered in Poti during the Lebed raid.
    1. Dart2027
      Dart2027 11 January 2021 19: 48
      0
      Quote: Alexey RA
      when later both of these RCA

      There were 5 boats in the battle, 2 were sunk, since they were sunk at a distance of several kilometers, it was difficult to accurately identify who exactly.
  • Machito
    Machito 9 January 2021 12: 19
    +17
    Quote: BAI
    ... We have a fleet not for war.

    Precisely, for the war. Both in peacetime and in wartime, the number of ships and their weapons will remain unchanged. And to maintain the fleet, which is required for the war, in peacetime Russia is beyond its means. Therefore, we have a surplus fleet for peacetime (with a huge financial burden) and insufficient for war.
    It should be taken into account that the Black Sea Fleet and the Baltic Sea Fleet are kept for the sake of traditions. Their combat value is zero. In case of war, they will be destroyed immediately, most likely within 24 hours - locked in inland seas and are in the range of tactical missiles and aircraft.

    For the operation in Syria, the fleet was not needed? A base in the Red Sea, which controls the entire flow of oil from the Persian Gulf to Europe, is also not needed? The Baltic Fleet ensures the safety of the joint venture and St. Petersburg. The Japanese would land a landing on the South Kurils, and there Rhenium from the volcano figachit. Why do we need Rhenium?
    Take it. The state will not become poorer. (C) Ivan Vasilievich changes his profession.
    And we don't need the Northern Sea Route? Arctic natural resources? Countries such as Sweden, Finland, China and others are interested in the Arctic. And what do they have to do with the Arctic.
    We don't need a huge fleet. We need a combat-ready fleet with efficient effective weapons, capable of solving the tasks facing it: protecting our sea borders (the longest in the world), protecting shipping, fishing, mining, preventing enemy fleets from reaching our shores to deliver a nuclear disarming strike, and others. ...
    1. timokhin-aa
      9 January 2021 14: 30
      +18
      We don't need a huge fleet. We need a combat-ready fleet with efficient effective weapons, capable of solving the tasks facing it: protecting our sea borders (the longest in the world), protecting shipping, fishing, mining, preventing enemy fleets from reaching our shores to deliver a nuclear disarming strike, and others. ...


      HERE !. Common sense begins to win ...
      1. Machito
        Machito 9 January 2021 14: 52
        +9
        Would add common sense to the USC and the Admiralty.
        Water grinds the stone.
        Judging by the photographs of Klimov's appeals to the Moscow Region, he has been fighting Spitz for a long time.
    2. bayard
      bayard 10 January 2021 06: 02
      +11
      Maxim dug a very deep topic - about the combat value of the Navy's NSNF. Especially the fact that the protection of SSBNs in the bastions will draw off most of the forces of the Navy, not leaving them for an active struggle at sea. And in the "bastions" and at the exit from the bases there is simply nothing to ensure the safety of SSBNs and RLARKs. Especially at the Pacific Fleet.
      Therefore, it would be advisable to revise both the plans for the construction of SSBNs (their quantitative composition) and their location.
      It is precisely because of the inability of the Pacific Fleet to ensure the safety of basing, combat deployment and combat use.
      For quite objective reasons that cannot be eliminated in the medium term. And with a view to greater and more complete return on these warships and ease of basing, protection, operation, repair and logistics, when basing them on the Northern Fleet.
      And at the Pacific Fleet leave MAPLs and SSGNs, which, no longer being diverted to defend SSBNs in the "bastion", will be able to significantly strengthen the Fleet's strike forces in DM and OZ. And the now frail and slowly building anti-submarine forces will be able to more fully provide the anti-submarine warfare of the naval base and the economic zone.
      The Borei-Borei-M series of SSBNs can be limited to 8 pennants, and the last two just laid / laid down can be completed in the Borei-K modification by the Zircon and Caliber-M carriers. And to build such "Borey-K" in the amount of 6 - 8 pieces. This will greatly enhance the strike capabilities of the Fleet and will not need to hide them in "bastions", diverting the already few forces. These SSGNs will be able to effectively "keep track of weapons" for the enemy's AUG and KUG and carry out watch in the oceans, keeping the enemy's coastal infrastructure at gunpoint. And they will also very strongly strengthen the future KUG of the domestic Fleet not only with their shock, but also anti-submarine capabilities, strengthening their combat stability from under the water.
      The construction of the Yasenei should be urgently stopped, having completed the already pledged ones, and the funds for the last two (which may not have been pledged yet) should be redirected to the design of MPSS in the dimension 945 of the project, which should be built in a large series in the future.
      And close the OCD for the Husky \ Laika project, which threatens to result in an even more futuristic version of Ash. All funds should be redirected to the design and construction of MAPLs of moderate VI, inexpensive and massive.

      And on the Northern Fleet, SSBNs collected in one fist will be under much better protection. There, surface forces are more powerful, and air cover is easier to organize. Especially when the upgraded Kuznetsov returns to service.
      Kamchatka strategists need to be taken out of the attack and this burden removed from the Pacific Fleet. There is no other reasonable solution and will not be in the next 10 years.

      And further . In 2015, an order was published for the construction and delivery of 200 liquid-propellant missiles to the Fleet for the Dolphins remaining in service. There are not so many left to serve these boats, but new missiles are being supplied ... Therefore, it makes sense to keep these SSBNs in service as long as possible, and after the exhaustion of the resource, transfer them to "duty in the base", if possible, until the resource is exhausted. missiles.
      The treaty with the Americans on the reduction of strategic armaments will sink into oblivion in a few months, and there is no point in limiting oneself in these armaments and writing off new missiles together in submarines. Let them continue their service as launchers for a retaliatory-on-counter or preemptive strike.
      But only a nationally oriented government can redraw plans, returning to common sense and rational spending of the budget. For this, the Country needs a Master.
      The real Master is wise, decisive, strong-willed.
      Not a puppet in the hands of the entourage.
      Not a compromiser, sagging under the pressure of partners.
      For whom the highest priority will be the safety and well-being of the People.
      ... not friends.
      That will not let go of projects and programs of strategic importance ... and astronomical value.
      Which will appoint executors according to ABILITIES, and not according to the patronage and consensus of the "right people".
      Once upon a time, we were lucky with such a Master ...
      1. Machito
        Machito 10 January 2021 06: 14
        0
        Put a fat plus.
  • Jager
    Jager 9 January 2021 13: 12
    0
    Then who is the US fighting with their fleet ??
    1. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa 9 January 2021 18: 57
      +4
      Quote: Jager
      Then who is the US fighting with their fleet ??

      The question is, of course, interesting ... (c)
      Look into the history of WWII and today's operations, when the first strike was made by the KRBD from ships and SSGNs, plus carrier aircraft. But there were times when BZ (even during WWII) was unloaded (disposed of) through the barrel! The battleship "New Jersey" (1983 and 1984 in Lebanon) and the LC "Missouri" (1991 in Iraq).
  • KCA
    KCA 9 January 2021 13: 20
    -5
    Well, of course, the opponents have everything in the Baltic and the Black Sea, but we have nothing, fly the planes and the CD, but why do they write like that in boiling water about the appearance of Iskander in Kaliningrad? What else is there? Yes, only those who need to know, the “partners” learned about the first appearance of the Iskander in Kaliningrad from the reports of Russian TV, the aviation of the Southern Federal District is also about nothing? However, it covers both the Caspian and the Black Sea like a bull a sheep, "Daggers" are also about nothing, only the aviation of possible opponents can do something?
    1. Vladimir1155
      Vladimir1155 11 January 2021 13: 58
      -1
      Quote: KCA
      why are they peeing with boiling water about the appearance of Iskander missiles in Kaliningrad?

      and no one has anything against the development of Iskander and aviation and navy, the question of the effectiveness of specifically surface ships in the conditions of small limited seas stuffed with coastal missiles and coastal aviation, I personally understand that ineffective not only Russian corvettes frigates in the Baltic, but also German and Swedish, so are ineffective. And the Finns are wise, in general they did not bother with them by the way, they have the whole fleet of minesweepers, minelayers, they count on mining and do it right. .... and they (the Finns) have more minesweepers than in the entire Russian Navy with its oceans! here we are truly throwing money on single battleships and Kuzu, when there are no necessary and available means of naval warfare, so was our bulky battleships in Tsushima that exceeded the power of the Japanese large fleet, all died because the Japanese had hundreds of destroyers (destroyers of that time correspond to MRK)
      1. S. Viktorovich
        S. Viktorovich 11 January 2021 17: 01
        +1
        The Finns are right. From the experience of the wars in the Baltic, mines and aircraft decide everything.
      2. KCA
        KCA 13 January 2021 07: 19
        -2
        Mine planners and minesweepers PPC will help the Finnish fleet in attacking Calibers, Onyxes and Zircons, well, they will easily neutralize all the missiles, especially if they are with SBS, one Caliber with a TABC will fucking demolish the whole of Helsinki, and only then a minefield will save Finland from fools, who will sail on motor boats to conquer
        1. Vladimir1155
          Vladimir1155 13 January 2021 09: 00
          -1
          Quote: KCA
          Mine planners and minesweepers PPC how to help the Finnish fleet in the attack of Caliber, Onyx and Zircon,

          to paraphrase .... how will corvettes and frigates help the Russian fleet in attacking NATO missiles?
  • Vladimir1155
    Vladimir1155 9 January 2021 15: 08
    -1
    Yes
    Quote: BAI
    The Black Sea Fleet and the Black Sea Fleet are kept for the sake of tradition.
    and now Vladika is also senseless and vulnerable
    and it is expensive, and for the sake of tradition, the aircraft carrier is more expensive than the Alexandrov ensemble, but with near-zero combat usefulness ..... the author writes that the RPKN at the Pacific Fleet are defenseless, this is a clear obvious fact, but it is not so obvious that all the other RPKN are not enough protected, there is not enough IPC to protect them. we need a water area within a radius of 2000-3000 thousand km, so we do not control it on the Northern Fleet, there are a couple of BODs, a couple of frigates and one cruiser, the remnants of Soviet PLO aviation, but we keep dozens of ships in the Baltic and Black Sea, in the Japanese and Caspian ... for the sake of "tradition", but by and large for the sake of stripe positions. Exit from the Japanese sea only through that same Tsushima, which was narrow back in 1905, for La Perouse is already ..... the admirals are consciously and consistently preparing us again Tsushima!
    1. Grits
      Grits 10 January 2021 04: 20
      +2
      Quote: vladimir1155
      Exit from the Japanese sea only through that same Tsushima, which was narrow back in 1905, for La Perouse is still ..... the admirals are consciously and consistently preparing us again Tsushima!

      If you look closely, it turns out that half of the Pacific Fleet are also locked in their seas like the Black Sea Fleet and the Baltic Fleet. At the beginning of any batch, ships from Vladivostok or Fokino will never enter the operational space, but will hang out only in the Sea of ​​Japan. Yapi block all exits from it. These ships do not go through the Tatar Strait (shallow and freezing). So they can be called the Japanese Navy. Only a group from Kamchatka can break out into the ocean. But these are mostly submarines, there are no serious surface ships there.
      1. Vladimir1155
        Vladimir1155 10 January 2021 20: 42
        -1
        Quote: Gritsa
        that half of the Pacific Fleet are also locked in their seas like the Black Sea Fleet and the Baltic Fleet. At the beginning of any batch, ships from Vladivostok or Fokino will never enter the operational space, but will hang out only in the Sea of ​​Japan.
        I agree, but unfortunately this is not half, but almost the entire tof, and in Kamchatka, only all three nuclear submarines, a couple of MPKs and one minesweeper ...
    2. Vadim237
      Vadim237 10 January 2021 16: 06
      -1
      And SSBNs go out through Tsushima and they don't need to, if something happens, they can launch rockets from the quay wall.
      1. Vladimir1155
        Vladimir1155 10 January 2021 19: 32
        +2
        there are no rpksn in the Japanese sea, thank God, they are in Kamchatka, but if they do not get out, then there is no point in them, why from the quay wall, then we just roll the mobile yars to the quay and fell even from the quay even from the village road, cheap angrily .... the meaning of the RPKS is not to shoot back somehow from the wall, but to come up unexpectedly to the enemy's shore and hit him close until his missile defense system detects
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 10 January 2021 22: 27
          0
          "And to come up unexpectedly to the enemy's shore and hit him close until his missile defense missile is not detected" Now, anyway, you have come close to the shores or shot from the wall, the missile defense missile defense group sees all launches online will be detected instantly, and the SM 3 missiles of the latest modification flight range 2500 kilometers - it is necessary to improve the systems for overcoming missile defense on ICBMs, which is what they are doing.
          1. Vladimir1155
            Vladimir1155 10 January 2021 22: 50
            -2
            Quote: Vadim237
            it is necessary to improve the systems for overcoming missile defense on ICBMs, which is what they are doing.

            I agree, but I see the difference between 1000 km and 12000 km, it is more difficult to track, by the way, you can hit a hedgehog with a mace in Japan (if it attacks), from the south, in those countries in other hemispheres (if, of course, they start aggression against the Russian Federation), in the center of the USA and much much farther 12000 km from Russia, in general, the RPKSN is a longer arm than the yars, and there are also calibers and granites on the nuclear submarine ... as far as I know, it is more difficult to detect them than the MBR ... so the nuclear submarine is necessary and their combat stability and not replacement by Yars or shooting from the wall
    3. Intruder
      Intruder 11 January 2021 06: 17
      +1
      the admirals are consciously and consistently preparing us Tsushima again!
      quite possibly for a house in Hawaii, it's good there in the fall, or in the Caribbean region !? :) All people and humans want to eat deliciously and sleep softly, and admirals are people too ... :)))
    4. ccsr
      ccsr 11 January 2021 13: 34
      +1
      Quote: vladimir1155
      the admirals are consciously and consistently preparing us Tsushima again!

      To think that it is only the admirals who are to blame, in my opinion, is unreasonable, because in any structure of the armed forces there are always examples of bungling. I will tell you a case that I have known well since Soviet times. In the 50s, in the Vadsø region (Norway), the largest NATO electronic intelligence center, or rather the American one, was created, which had some posts on our border. To neutralize these posts and the center itself, a separate mixed artillery battalion with batteries of rocket and barrel artillery was deployed near the border. Its task was to deploy in the tundra near the border during a threatened period and destroy these objects with the beginning of the war. For this, the infrastructure was created, up to the "concrete" leading to the positions, which were also equipped with concrete slabs so that the equipment would not sit down when the thaw sets in. The maintenance of this division, taking into account housing, heating, school and other delivery costs, represented considerable sums, but nevertheless, no one bothered with this, and the officers served as they should. And this went on for decades. My colleague, who began his service there and with whom we communicated with already quite mature officers, could not understand why, to destroy this center, it was impossible to envisage a pair of ground-based cruise missiles (or OTR) with a range of up to 500-1000 km, which would were located in the coastal units of the Northern Fleet, and the maintenance of which would have cost mere pennies, compared to the maintenance of a separate division in the tundra. In the worst case, provide for a bomber strike from nearby airfields, which could deliver a tactical nuclear strike against this center. And that would be the end for this enemy center. This epic ended with the collapse of the Union, and I think that now only the ruins of the buildings of this object adorn the tundra. This is how we drove the country's economy, completely not understanding what this would result in later. The same is now done by the author of the article, who, with his pseudo-concern, is trying to shove through some unthinkable "ideas" on torpedoes and mines, believing that they will help us in a global war.
      It will be a pity if some of the current commanders buy into such incriminating articles, which, in fact, do not represent anything interesting from the point of development of new weapons, but clog the heads of those people who have a poor understanding of modern military affairs with garbage.
      1. Igoresha
        Igoresha 13 January 2021 22: 49
        0
        wow, history ((
  • Vladimir1155
    Vladimir1155 9 January 2021 15: 15
    +3
    Quote: BAI
    Therefore, we have a surplus fleet for peacetime (with a huge financial burden) and insufficient for war.

    it is abundant on the seas and insufficient on the oceans! no matter whether it is a war or a pre-war peacetime! This is true !
  • Boa kaa
    Boa kaa 9 January 2021 17: 53
    0
    Quote: BAI
    Both in peacetime and in wartime, the number of ships and their weapons will remain unchanged.

    You are not right. There are brigades of conservation ships and there are MMF ships that are undergoing re-equipment and become ships of the Vospom. fleet. And trawlers are even becoming BTShch. Well, most likely they will in fact become breakers.
    1. Vladimir1155
      Vladimir1155 10 January 2021 20: 45
      +1
      Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
      And trawlers are even becoming BTShch. Well, most likely they will become breakthroughs in fact.

      this is outdated, wars are now fleeting, the reserve is partly non-combatable, and minesweepers do not have enough trawl, complex equipment is required to be mounted for a long time ... but to break through minefields at the cost of the death of the crew ...
      1. ccsr
        ccsr 11 January 2021 19: 27
        +2
        Quote: vladimir1155
        it is outdated, wars are now fleeting, the reserve of the Bosch is partly non-combatant,

        When, in the eighties, in the Sevastopol Bay I saw a dozen large ships on conservation, but on which there were crews, albeit reduced, even my landlord's hair stood on end from such bungling. What kind of fools should have been those who came up with the idea of ​​storing this metal, instead of giving them away not to be melted down. After all, even then it was clear that they would drown immediately, after the very first strike on the Sevastopol base, but nevertheless they spent people's money on them, and the naval ones pretended that it was necessary for a mob reserve. In general, there are still those miracle workers in the navy, although they love to look into the future, with something that has no place there for a long time. Their fate is apparently such, to hold on to rubbish, from which there is no benefit ...
        1. Vladimir1155
          Vladimir1155 11 January 2021 20: 27
          0
          it
          Quote: ccsr
          hold on to junk that is useless ..

          just a way to cut a variety of provisions, and then another repair ... there is already cut by the billions and in favor of admirals, the same cut is the maintenance of running, but incapable of combat ships with morally and physically outdated non-combat-ready weapons, but such are the KUZYA, modern new corvettes and new minesweepers, almost all ships are over 30 years old ... that is, almost the entire fleet = durilka = cardboard box, and so it was in Rus-YAP during WWI and WWII, flag demonstrations, parades and so on. except maybe the nuclear submarine is more or less appropriate for the tasks. This is all caused primarily by the overestimated tonnage of the uniqueness (in the series a pair of three 1144 1164 or one KUZYA ship) and therefore the astronomical cost of the pennant itself and its repair, it is a pity to throw it out, but there is no money to fix ... many small ships can be produced
          and serial repair and do not mind writing off. BUT there is little fat on the cut too.
        2. frog
          frog 12 January 2021 14: 49
          +1
          And how much good was the cropped (to varying degrees) divisions? How long did it take to bring her to a relatively sane state? We will not talk about combat value. especially if there is a relatively adequate enemy ..... IMHO, but all this is an illustration to the theme of "war with a broken back." EMNIP, as it was called. Plenty of decent posts in decent places. For dust-free service .....
          1. ccsr
            ccsr 12 January 2021 18: 33
            +1
            Quote: frog
            And how much good was the cropped (to varying degrees) divisions?

            There was no use - I have no doubt about that. But at least they had the equipment for conservation, which was instantly brought into working condition, it was only necessary to connect the batteries to the transport base.

            Quote: frog
            Plenty of decent posts in decent places. For dust-free service ....

            The salaries of the personnel were very small compared to the costs of maintaining the equipment itself. So it was not the salaries of the military that ruined us, but the fact that annual re-preservation, inspections, consumables, etc. were required.
            That is why I say that bungling was not only in the navy, but it was too expensive for the country in the navy. For example, reactivated equipment on a wheel base can be transferred to the national economy at least, but a warship cannot be converted into a trawler.
            1. frog
              frog 12 January 2021 18: 49
              +1
              There was no use - I have no doubt about that.

              Consensus. Not bad already wink
              But at least they had the equipment for conservation, which was instantly brought into working condition, it was only necessary to connect the batteries to the transport base.

              Let's just say you're in luck .... I've met more. And, alas, quite often.
              The salaries of the personnel were very small compared to the costs of maintaining the equipment itself.

              And I'm not talking about that. And about the fact that a considerable number of officers were ....... how would it be softer ... I think you understand)))
              For example, reactivated equipment on a wheel base can be transferred to the national economy at least, but a warship cannot be converted into a trawler.

              Yes, there, too, everything was ambiguous, generally speaking. Again, you can also remember aviation ...
              For natural reasons, everyone milked the cow that was. And besides the fleet, so to speak, there are complaints repeat But just like everyone else. Well, and the specifics are the matter ...
            2. ccsr
              ccsr 12 January 2021 19: 04
              +1
              Quote: frog
              Consensus. Not bad already

              What is the consensus - do you think I found out about it now? That we did not see then that the real deployed divisions of the GSVG are a cut higher in combat readiness than those that were in the Union?
              Quote: frog
              And about the fact that a considerable number of officers were ....... how would it be softer ... I think you understand)))

              Is it their fault that the doctrine of "two wars" existed then, and officers were kept under it? It did not depend on them.
              Quote: frog
              For natural reasons, everyone milked the cow that was. And besides the fleet, so to speak, there are complaints

              But the fleet ruined us too much - it was even evident from the prices of their products, I am in the subject on this issue.
              Of course, after a fight they don't wave their fists, but the fact that our top military men behaved stupidly in the years preceding the collapse is obvious to me.
            3. frog
              frog 12 January 2021 19: 19
              +1
              What is the consensus - do you think I found out about it now?

              No, of course not. But to know is one thing, and to admit is another. But this is not a run over)), just a statement ...
              And are they to blame that we then had the doctrine of "two wars"

              Did I blame them for this? It's not they who invented this nonsense. But ..... They were ....
              But the fleet ruined us too much - it was even evident from the prices of their products, I am in the subject on this issue.

              "Expenses for the Soviet Navy in 1989 were:
              12,08 billion rubles (with a total military budget of 77,294 billion rubles) "
              It is clear that there are far from all the numbers (as is often the case with statistics)), but ......
            4. ccsr
              ccsr 12 January 2021 19: 36
              +1
              Quote: frog
              "Expenses for the Soviet Navy in 1989 were:
              12,08 billion rubles (with a total military budget of 77,294 billion rubles) "

              I don't know who and how counted it, and whether the author of the calculations can be trusted, but the official figure was less:
              military spending of the USSR was relatively modest: in 1968 - 16,7 billion rubles (2,6% of the GNP of the 1980 level), 1975-1976 - 17,4 billion (2,8%), 1980-1984 - 17,1 , 2,7 billion (1987%), 20,2 - 3,2 billion (1%). [3], [5, p. XNUMX].

              https://topwar.ru/110014-voennye-rashody-zagubili-sssr.html
              Although, of course, official expenditures did not reflect all defense expenditures, so naturally the expenditures were higher. Once I heard another figure, which in my opinion is more realistic - about 50 billion rubles. by the time of the collapse of the USSR.
            5. frog
              frog 12 January 2021 20: 12
              0
              Well, I already said that the Union's defense spending is a delicate matter)))
              But in this case, we are talking about the fact that the cost of a rather big navy is about (highly conditional) 16%. It is clear that you can argue about anything here, but .....
            6. ccsr
              ccsr 13 January 2021 12: 02
              0
              Quote: frog
              But in this case, we are talking about the fact that the cost of a rather big navy is about (strongly conditional) 16%.

              This figure is incorrect, if only because the fleet used a lot of weapons and equipment, the development of which went along the lines of other general customers. For example, everything that went through the 12th GU MO, or even through a number of departments of the Ministry of Defense. Even our space technology was cheaper than the same missile cruisers, aircraft carriers and nuclear submarines. And I'm not even talking about the content.
            7. frog
              frog 14 January 2021 16: 21
              0
              And there are (I'm talking about officialdom))) correct numbers? Taking into account how exactly the prices were set and how did the financing of both the country and the defense industry take place?
              And are you sure that only the expenses for the "wet" ones were hidden in other columns? And, say, the "falcons" of various epistemology were extremely honest and open?
              It is obvious that steamship business is not cheap. As well as the obvious cheapness of the army in general, and ours - even more so. In the same way, a certain oddity is obvious)))) The Navy .... That does not mean that he is not needed. In the same way as the strangeness of the tank zoo raises questions, but does not mean that tanks are not needed. And so - for all components ...
            8. ccsr
              ccsr 14 January 2021 16: 38
              0
              Quote: frog
              And there are (I'm talking about officialdom))) correct numbers?

              No, not everything is indicated there either. But the figure you quoted of 16% is roughly twice as wrong.
            9. frog
              frog 14 January 2021 16: 41
              0
              And here the competition of measuring instruments already begins. I don’t participate in these, alas ...
              Do you want to believe that the damned fleet was eating the beggars of the Armed Forces? Yes, for the sake of the creator, who will forbid you? The topic is very popular, since the days of the damned emperors and other henchmen ... True, then it turns out that not everything is exactly the same with the numbers, but that is ..... And if it were not spent on the fleet, we would oh, how they took off ...
              Good luck in the new year and health!
            10. ccsr
              ccsr 14 January 2021 19: 29
              -1
              Quote: frog
              Do you want to believe that the damned fleet was eating the beggars of the Armed Forces?

              I am aware of how the budget of the Armed Forces was divided according to the types and types of troops in general terms, so I think I was not mistaken. It cannot be said that he ate everyone, but he was a leader in this matter. So about 30% was spent on it - I remember that.

              Quote: frog
              Good luck in the new year and health!

              Same to you.
            11. Fizik M
              Fizik M 15 January 2021 20: 45
              +1
              Quote: ccsr
              I am aware of how the budget of the Armed Forces was divided according to the types and types of troops in general terms, so I think I was not mistaken. It cannot be said that he ate everyone, but he was a leader in this matter. So about 30% was spent on it - I remember that.

              YOUR drinking companions warrant officers lied to YOU
  • Intruder
    Intruder 11 January 2021 06: 18
    0
    Well, most likely they will in fact become breakers.
    heroes - posthumously !? :))
    1. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa 11 January 2021 20: 33
      +2
      Quote: Intruder
      heroes - posthumously !? :))

      They can drag the BSHZ and jerk, freeing up the passage for combat units. The mines are equipped with devices of urgency and multiplicity, so it is not a fact that they will immediately explode. They can miss, they can fire on the main engine field, on a large displacement machine. So, in war, as in war!
      And who said it would be easy?
      1. Fizik M
        Fizik M 15 January 2021 20: 43
        0
        Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
        They can drag the BSHZ and jerk, freeing up the passage for combat units.

        shitty effectiveness of BShZ against modern mines
  • Boa kaa
    Boa kaa 9 January 2021 18: 30
    +2
    Quote: BAI
    It should be borne in mind that the Black Sea Fleet and the Baltic Sea Fleet are kept for the sake of traditions. Their combat value is zero.

    Oh how! And in the General Staff they don't even know !!! laughing
    Quote: BAI
    In case of war, they will be destroyed immediately,

    Well, damn it, "Nelsons" and more! It's already scary to stay on the site ... There are strategists around with incredibly categorical judgments .. and three classes of education at the Central School of Education.
    Yeah ... It's power! intellect and rushing ... already capitulate to such relics of hotts !!!
    AHA.
    Quote: BAI
    locked in inland seas and within range of tactical missiles and aircraft.
    And what words WAY knows ... and where did he get it !?
    Oh yes, I forgot, damn it, - eat STRATEGIUS! As he said - so it will be !!! Because no one can touch the aviation, not to mention the carriers of the anti-ship missile system ... But how, otherwise nizzyayaya !!! It has been said - all will be drowned - period! STRATEGIUS .. eat! laughing
  • Intruder
    Intruder 11 January 2021 06: 07
    0
    Their combat value is zero.
    well ..., something very attracted and categorical ... I understand that the first blow will be on the RPL SN, but still one can break into the given launch area, and then it will go to the depth - a hero :)))
  • Machito
    Machito 9 January 2021 13: 35
    +8
    Judging by the combat readiness and state of our fleet, not everything is in order with the command staff. The fish goes out from the head. Admirals look like businessmen in uniform.
  • Boa kaa
    Boa kaa 9 January 2021 14: 11
    +6
    Quote: Stas157
    We have a fleet not for war. And what about the command staff? Is everything all right there?

    The courtiers ... Well, where are we F.F. Ushakov to take something ??? All the proteges around ... hairy-handed. Something is not visible from the deck and from the navigating bridge ...
    The Amam were lucky: they had Rikover. And here, after Gorshkov and Chernavin ... at least roll a ball ...
    Sadly, however.
    1. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 9 January 2021 18: 18
      +2
      Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
      Sadly, however.

      I don’t know about the army, but in the Ministry of Internal Affairs the situation is the same, protege in the degree of loyalty to the authorities, and not in professionalism. Alas, it's the same everywhere.
      1. Boa kaa
        Boa kaa 9 January 2021 23: 02
        +4
        Quote: Ingvar 72
        Alas, it's the same everywhere.

        "Capitalism with its birthmarks", as the founders taught us at one time ... And the guarantor sings about social lifts ...
        It's time to end the one-party system of power in our country! Painfully, the fans of the "lawyer's son" sharpen their teeth on them. The hour is not equal to death in the upcoming elections ... bully
        1. frog
          frog 12 January 2021 14: 52
          +1
          Painfully, the fans of the "lawyer's son" sharpen their teeth on them. The hour is not equal to death in the upcoming elections ...

          After so many years of training? I doubt it very much .... If one of "these" will find it suitable material. But then only the signboard will change wink
      2. businessv
        businessv 10 January 2021 10: 16
        0
        Quote: Ingvar 72
        protege by the degree of loyalty to the authorities, and not by professionalism. Alas, it's the same everywhere.

        Quite right! This is called the SYSTEM, which must be demolished, otherwise Russia may not stay!
        1. Vladimir1155
          Vladimir1155 11 January 2021 14: 03
          -1
          RI already collapsed in 1917 for this very reason
  • Zoldat_A
    Zoldat_A 9 January 2021 23: 39
    -1
    Quote: Stas157
    The situation is depressing.

    From the article I understood one thing - "Vsepropalo" .... So what? So there is still a landing, which walks on the ground and waves its arms and legs ... Nobody has canceled it yet.
    1. businessv
      businessv 10 January 2021 10: 19
      +2
      Quote: Zoldat_A
      From the article I realized one thing - "Vsepropalo" .... So what?
      Of course not! Everything is in plain sight, you just need to apply the will and desire to fix this mess and take away budget funds in your pockets, and at the same time sweep out stupid and incompetent bureaucrats of all ranks from the decision-making places!
  • Grits
    Grits 10 January 2021 03: 59
    +3
    Quote: Stas157
    It seems that everything suits everyone. Admirals are comfortable in warm places and are not interested in combat effectiveness.

    And as correctly noted in the article, retiring generals and admirals in massive numbers in a very suspicious way find themselves in warm chairs in the leadership of the defense complex. It makes sense to think about it. Maybe it's time for the FSB to get down to business and follow this funny chain of transformations?
    1. frog
      frog 12 January 2021 14: 53
      +2
      Maybe it's time for the FSB to get down to business and follow this funny chain of transformations?

      And these are already busy "with their own business." They are not interested in "other people's affairs".
  • psiho117
    psiho117 10 January 2021 18: 17
    +1
    Quote: Stas157
    And what about the command staff? Is everything all right there?

    Why do you think the Ministry of Emergency Situations has been appointed as the Minister of Defense? Because all the generals did not find no one(!!!) an intelligent general.
    That's the whole answer request
    1. ccsr
      ccsr 10 January 2021 19: 16
      +1
      Quote: psiho117
      Why do you think the Ministry of Emergency Situations has been appointed as the Minister of Defense? Because for all the generals there was not a single (!!!) sensible general

      He was appointed out of personal loyalty, and not because there were no smart generals. Although this experience of leadership had large structures and solved operational tasks within the Ministry of Emergency Situations, unlike Ivanov or Serdyukov, and did not climb much with the reforms in the army. That is why I made a mistake, I realized what was happening, and now I seem to be on the spot. Although this appointment was not a failure, and this is already encouraging ...
      1. Zoldat_A
        Zoldat_A 11 January 2021 00: 40
        0
        Quote: ccsr
        Serdyukov

        Do not remember Satan by night ...
  • Boa kaa
    Boa kaa 9 January 2021 14: 05
    +8
    Quote: Military Commissar77
    Strategic submarines cannot be multipurpose by definition.

    Nobody "appointed" them multipurpose, although after the launch of the entire BC, they may well upset the NK and even the enemy's PLA.
    But the speech in the article is completely different. The point is that modern (non-traditional) methods of detecting underwater NOISE objects disrupt the issue of secrecy of our APRK SN even in the so-called. "bastions". And after the attack of the strategist with the help of TO, he is not able to evade it and destroy / withdraw the SNTO. Which is guaranteed to lead to the death of the ship and the crew. There are problems, and the leadership is like ostriches. That's the problem. And not in who cannot be who!
  • NDR-791
    NDR-791 9 January 2021 06: 48
    +16
    for me, as an ordinary man in the street, the main thing is "the volley is gone!"
    You know, when I served as a company commander, I constantly drove on tactics. We were indignant like what for goat accordion? He replied simply: "Do you think that you are a white bone? Goonies! Our business is to send a signal to launch missiles. And then we are ordinary infantry." So I think from the moment of the beginning of combat use any boats are considered decommissioned. A volley fired? Mission accomplished. Nobody will worry about whether the boat will later reach the base (most likely there will be nowhere to return).
    1. bessmertniy
      bessmertniy 9 January 2021 07: 27
      -12%
      Already that huge anti-submarine superiority that the opponents created against our nuclear fleet cost them dearly and will continue to do so. And the fact that "Bulava" flies to the right place should restrain them even more. hi
      1. NDR-791
        NDR-791 9 January 2021 07: 49
        +1
        There is another question. The only full-fledged volley in history was fired in 1989. (SSBN K-407 project 667BDRM) and then only from the second time. The first failed, the rocket blazed. Let's estimate: a multi-headed rocket 6-10, each head 100-150 Kt., Rockets 16. Total we have from 9,6 Mt to 24 Mt. The goals are minimum 96, maximum 160. This is a DAMAGE !!!! Huge! And only from one boat. At the same time, I believe that a certain minimum is laid down in combat use, which the boat simply must release before being destroyed by the enemy. During the missile salvo, the boat is deaf and blind. Why would she need torpedoes? I don't understand this. Can the specialists explain?
        1. Cyril G ...
          Cyril G ... 9 January 2021 08: 12
          +30
          Quote: NDR-791
          During the missile salvo, the boat is deaf and blind. Why would she need torpedoes?


          You still have to live to see the volley
          1. NDR-791
            NDR-791 9 January 2021 08: 17
            +5
            This is understandable. But after all, SSBNs are not intended for torpedo combat in principle, not sharpened, so to speak. He obviously loses to the hunter boat. Here stealth is the first thing. Or there should be protection from the outside. If they find it before a volley, they will not let you shoot.
            1. Cyril G ...
              Cyril G ... 9 January 2021 10: 02
              +15
              According to the mind, at least one multipurpose nuclear submarine should cover the launch of SSBNs. But we have with them a disaster from the word in general ...
            2. Jager
              Jager 9 January 2021 13: 21
              0
              And what prevents the strategist from installing effective means of counteraction and self-defense (detection, destruction)? Just the same, it should be equipped with EVERYTHING.
              The situation is reminiscent of the fate of Yamato, when the battleship had excellent main battery guns, capable of drowning anyone. And the anti-aircraft cover was clearly insufficient. Or the same "Tirpitz" or "October Revolution", which was covered by the entire air defense system of Leningrad. The result is known.
              1. timokhin-aa
                9 January 2021 14: 27
                +5
                And what prevents the strategist from installing effective means of counteraction and self-defense (detection, destruction)? Just the same, it should be equipped with EVERYTHING.


                That's right, it is, and often SSBNs are unmasking the forces that are supposed to protect it.
              2. Fizik M
                Fizik M 15 January 2021 20: 41
                +2
                Quote: Jager
                And what prevents the strategist from installing effective means of counteraction and self-defense (detection, destruction)?

                eggs
                the dancer
                or rather VIP-functionaries of our maritime defense industry
                across which our raftsmen are afraid to squeak
        2. Boa kaa
          Boa kaa 9 January 2021 19: 58
          +5
          Quote: NDR-791
          During the missile salvo, the boat is deaf and blind. Why would she need torpedoes?
          About the "blind-deaf-dumb".
          Yes, it seems, as it were, - "no ...." We were hanging under the paravan, now there are buoys and others ... GPBA again, conformal and nasal antennas, GAS mine detection ... Everyone is sitting on BG-1, recorders write ... Of course there is flare, as without it ... but not at all frequencies ... and without the "whistle" ...

          About torpedoes. GAS mine detecting sees an attacking torpedo. Your task is to have time to enter the "omega", shoot the anti-torpedo (Last), put up a barrage and release the self-propelled jamming, leading away the TO, launched at you. They used to shoot at the bearing for detection. THAT from the dezh TA ... Then it turned out that not everything is so simple ... "upright walkers" became out of fashion, from the word "in general".
          So everything is complicated, but you can ... if you are careful. bully
          In general, we were always taught: if you shoot, consider that you are found and do not wait for the yell of the hydroacoustics: "Torpedo, bearing ... XXX !!!" immediately start the evasive maneuver ... with all the bells and whistles ...
          Something like this. But that was long ago and not true ...
          Yeah, vooottt .... already.
          AHA.
      2. Stas157
        Stas157 9 January 2021 10: 05
        +4
        Quote: bessmertniy
        Already that huge anti-submarine advantage, which the opponents created against our atomic fleet, cost them dearly and will continue to do so.

        There it is, Mikhalych! It turns out that the main task of our NSNF is to force the enemy to create an anti-submarine attachment? Cunningly invented, you can't say anything!)))
    2. Furious bambr
      Furious bambr 9 January 2021 09: 18
      +4
      I support. What submarines, what strategic aviation in the event of combat use in the future - like a spent cartridge case
      1. Jager
        Jager 9 January 2021 13: 26
        +13
        And if you can eject from an airplane, then you cannot escape from a submarine.
        I believe that airborne troops with their jumps are a kindergarten compared to the crews of the nuclear submarine. Where for weeks people carry out tasks at a depth of one to two hundred meters, in a steel coffin filled with tons of explosives, hydrogen, nuclear fuel and nuclear missiles on board. And in the event of an emergency, and since the beginning of the war, it is so in general, they are guaranteed suicide bombers without the slightest chance to escape.
        1. timokhin-aa
          9 January 2021 14: 26
          0
          I believe that the airborne troops with their jumps


          What is it about jumping? It's cool - jumping.
          It's scary to jump from Ilah in the sense that there are constant convergence, if you do not fly into someone's lines, they will fly into you. But even then this is not even close every time, many in general, for the entire time, never encounter this themselves.

          Actually, it's cool to jump. You just need to know how to hit the ground correctly, roll sideways, and that's it.

          But divers, yes ...
          1. FIN
            FIN 10 January 2021 05: 50
            +2
            Long ago canceled in peacetime release in 4 streams.
            Side. Under the USSR, they often dropped at 4.
            Technician just now, a couple of times attended
            1. timokhin-aa
              10 January 2021 11: 47
              0
              At three, they also canceled like. But there are still convergences.
              1. FIN
                FIN 10 January 2021 12: 04
                +2
                ))) My Xena classmate served. He was a master of sports in gymnastics, so they took him there.
                I got into the film "Zone of Special Attention" ... Just before entering the DRA, the order of the DMB ...
                One more ... This is a workout in wearing a state uniform. There was a whole wardrobe. But older, he studied together with Shamanov, but the platoons are different.

          2. Zoldat_A
            Zoldat_A 11 January 2021 00: 58
            0
            Quote: timokhin-aa
            What is it about jumping? It's cool - jumping.
            It's scary to jump from Ilah in the sense that there are constant convergence, if you do not fly into someone's lines, they will fly into you. But even then this is not even close every time, many in general, for the entire time, never encounter this themselves.

            Actually, it's cool to jump. You just need to know how to hit the ground correctly, roll sideways, and that's it.

            good drinks Ours, dear.
            But divers, yes ...
            Scary. We won't fall further than the earth. And these ... In my military registration and enlistment office, the uterus dropped when in the enlistment commission some cavtorang in a black naval uniform said that I was just going to the Pacific submarine fleet for my health. A school friend served there ... for 8 months they sailed somewhere in the Indian Ocean, during this time he saw the sun twice - he was sitting somewhere in the engine room. It was lucky that the Pacific Fleet did not grow together somehow ... Military commissariat affairs - the jungle is dark. Even 30 years ago .... And with a parachute, Alexander, you have forgotten to add "the lines to pull up". And then a little breeze - and drag over all the bumps. You can't collect bones ...
    3. timokhin-aa
      9 January 2021 14: 29
      +5
      So I think from the moment of the beginning of combat use any boats are considered decommissioned. A volley fired? Mission accomplished.


      This is ours, and the United States is planning to reload mines at sea from tenders and shoot again, before bringing the enemy into a state of a charred desert. And they have everything for this, including special tender ships.
      So, as usual, it's not that simple.
      1. Kostya Lavinyukov
        Kostya Lavinyukov 10 January 2021 01: 09
        0
        I always wondered why it was impossible to shoot right from the tender. (Why did they abandon the idea of ​​arsenal ships.)
  • Bogatyrev
    Bogatyrev 9 January 2021 22: 25
    +3
    If this is true, then in a real war there will be no "Volley gone".
    And there will be just an eerie silence and dead cities.
    We have.
    And it will be because the Americans are well aware of the real state of our fleet. They are studying it.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 10 January 2021 16: 12
      0
      And they have the same thing, since SSBNs are part of the nuclear triad - who knows, maybe in the future, space will appear both in our country and in the United States.
    2. Zoldat_A
      Zoldat_A 11 January 2021 01: 04
      -3
      Quote: Bogatyrev
      If this is true, then in a real war there will be no "Volley gone".
      It will be simple eerie silence and dead cities.

      And that's all. Because our Strategic Missile Forces also did not pass by on the sly. Any real global war is mutual destruction. And neither us, nor America, nothing at all. Megatons will do their wrong ...
  • businessv
    businessv 10 January 2021 10: 14
    0
    Quote: Terenin
    And, the dependence of the military-industrial complex, their coordination ...

    Duc if this is not the case, then the volley goes in the wrong place, colleague! And with this we have huge problems, while cutting is in the first place, and not the country's combat capability! Thanks to the author, I read this material with great interest. As one of the high-ranking security officials, now a retired person with whom I have the honor to know, said, "we organize a showy show in the style of" we are all the best ", our bureaucrats in any industry can better than in any other country in the world and if you close your eyes to this, trouble is inevitable! "
  • Lech from Android.
    Lech from Android. 9 January 2021 05: 17
    +15
    Cool author walked on the topic what.
    It is difficult for an outsider to evaluate the article ... Knowledge of all aspects of naval affairs is required ... Only specialists can understand all the nuances of NSNF.
    1. Terenin
      Terenin 9 January 2021 06: 08
      -9
      Can pull up later, to me, "nerd" can not make out anything request launch was? was!
      The Russians have one feature - not to develop their victory, but even to be ashamed of it. (Prishtitna, Georgia, LDNR ...) And, they need to be consolidated.
      1. Stas157
        Stas157 9 January 2021 10: 09
        +12
        Quote: Terenin
        launch was? was!
        The Russians have one feature - not to develop their victory, but even to be ashamed of them.

        You just have to throw your hats up! Have you read the article? Can you argue somehow intelligibly?
        1. Machito
          Machito 9 January 2021 13: 37
          +5
          And he does not need to argue with reason. He knows everything like that.
          I've seen enough military acceptance. At least I revised the Impact Force for comparison.
        2. Scharnhorst
          Scharnhorst 9 January 2021 15: 40
          -5
          Everything is relative. Remind the audience when the Americans, British, Chinese, French did something like this? Our respected truth-teller and truth-lover (the author of the article), with great fertility in critical articles and loud denunciation of the listing of well-known shortcomings in the native Navy, is young that he offers to fix them.
          With a comparable military budget of the Russian Federation and Britain, we have our own SLBMs, they have American ones; deck-mounted MiG-29K, they have American F-35; and who will be escorted by "Liza"; and whose patrol P-8 and AWACS. And this "Mistress of the Seas" will stop making her own tanks, but can we afford it? And maybe in Britain comparable to ours air defense forces equipment? Is there something like Iskander there? So don't teach me how to live, better help me financially! (Slogan, not a request)
          1. Stas157
            Stas157 9 January 2021 16: 21
            +6
            Quote: Scharnhorst
            With a comparable military budget of the Russian Federation and Britain

            Honduras has an even smaller budget, compare it! What does Britain and its budget have to do with it? Are you going to fight with Britain or what? Britain may not have a military budget at all; it does not have such threats as Russia.

            The military budget should be drawn up focusing not on Britain, but on the entire set of military threats and their personal economic opportunities.
          2. SovAr238A
            SovAr238A 9 January 2021 17: 54
            0
            Quote: Scharnhorst
            Everything is relative. Remind the audience when the Americans, British, Chinese, French did something like this? Our respected truth-teller and truth-lover (the author of the article), with great fertility in critical articles and loud denunciation of the listing of well-known shortcomings in the native Navy, is young that he offers to fix them.
            With a comparable military budget of the Russian Federation and Britain, we have our own SLBMs, they have American ones; deck-mounted MiG-29K, they have American F-35; and who will be escorted by "Liza"; and whose patrol P-8 and AWACS. And this "Mistress of the Seas" will stop making her own tanks, but can we afford it? And maybe in Britain comparable to ours air defense forces equipment? Is there something like Iskander there? So don't teach me how to live, better help me financially! (Slogan, not a request)



            What is the use of this all of you listed, if everything you listed is incapable of fighting?
            And if it is combat-ready - then at the level of the late 70s?

            SLBMs of their own, yes ...
            Have you ever seen the production rate?

            Or do you think. that all our new SSBNs are 100% loaded in all 16 mines?
            I assure you, but it is not.
            The rate of production of missiles is much lower than the rate of production of boats.
            In proportions.
            For the production of the same fiberglass in the Russian Federation is much less than is required at least for the production of the Bulava, at least in the required quantity, by about 4-5 times.
            Purchased in China. What dalut. The scrap rate is very high in this area.
            it took almost 8 years to start production at home.
            And such nuances - the sea.
            there are 600 suppliers of nomenclature for Votkinsk.
            So it seems that there is something of its own, but it is as if it is so little that it makes sense in its own?
            What's the use of SSBNs, if its ammunition load for the first 3-4 years is 4-6 missiles?

            What's the use of our deck-mounted MiG-29Ks - if they don't fly?
            British pilots fly even on American ones, but they fly 200 hours.
            They use weapons.
            They take off and land.
            To the deck.
            In the sea.
            They become aces and ready for war.
            And our pilots of carrier-based aircraft and carrier-based aircraft?

            What you have listed. it's like an old big suitcase without a handle.
            We don't take it anywhere, we store it in a storage room for money, because there is not enough space. but we do not allow to throw it out.

            And when you realize that Britain is part of the NATO bloc.
            They will fight together against us. and not separately.
            They don't have Iskander yet, and they didn't really need them.
            They had ATACMS.
            And now they will buy Prisms.
            And they will have a complete analogue of Iskander.
            and not only for them, but for the entire NATO bloc.

            And since they have several hundred MLRS launchers in NATO in Europe in the ranks and HIMARS buy a few hundred more, then our Iskander to Prism will be in a ratio of 1 to 100 ...
            Not in our favor ...

            Boast there. where appropriate ...

            And learn to think with your head in a complex way ...
            1. Vadim237
              Vadim237 10 January 2021 16: 20
              -1
              They will fight together against us. and not separately. They will not fight against us at all - NATO has one principle in life, one for all and each for himself.
              "And since they have several hundred MLRS launchers in NATO in Europe in the ranks" This is actually an MLRS as well as HIMARS, but ATAKMS - OTRK you do not confuse the first with the second.
              1. SovAr238A
                SovAr238A 12 January 2021 19: 58
                +1
                Quote: Vadim237
                This is generally an MLRS as well as HIMARS, but ATAKMS - OTRK You do not confuse the first with the second.

                Vadim.
                You should learn what ATKMS is and what MLRS and Himars are. And how they are interconnected ...
            2. S. Viktorovich
              S. Viktorovich 12 January 2021 20: 30
              -1
              No need to shout in vain. The rate of production of rockets is higher than that of carriers.
          3. Fizik M
            Fizik M 15 January 2021 20: 36
            +1
            Quote: Scharnhorst
            Young offers to fix them.

            Have you been to the optometrist for a long time? go
            for one and to the surgeon, - to shorten, so that they would not inadvertently bite
      2. bk0010
        bk0010 9 January 2021 13: 39
        +5
        Quote: Terenin
        Can pull up later, me, "nerd" can not make out anything request was the start? Was!
        The article says that in wartime there would be no launch: we have nothing to cover for the SSBN so that it could shoot back before drowning. They will not even be allowed to take him out of the base: mines will not be allowed. And more than a hundred of our warheads will burn from two enemy warheads.
      3. Terenin
        Terenin 9 January 2021 22: 24
        +2
        Quote: Terenin
        Can pull up later, to me, "nerd" can not make out anything request launch was? was!
        The Russians have one feature - not to develop their victory, but even to be ashamed of it. (Prishtitna, Georgia, LDNR ...) And, they need to be consolidated.

        Well, I apologized yes
  • Ross xnumx
    Ross xnumx 9 January 2021 06: 10
    -5
    Like after lines like this:
    The NSNF of the Pacific Fleet, deployed in the zone of dominance of the enemy's anti-submarine forces, in fact, have practically no combat value:

    Not to mention the yachts of "our" Russian oligarchs. Are they probably more important to the country? belay
    Heavy thoughts. And the light at the end of the tunnel turned out to be the lights of an oncoming train ...
    1. Machito
      Machito 9 January 2021 12: 24
      +6
      It only remains to hope that in addition to Klimov and Timokhin, there are other caring specialists who are caring for the state and its defenses.
    2. KCA
      KCA 9 January 2021 13: 43
      +1
      Perhaps the oligarchs in the United States are building aircraft carriers and nuclear submarines? Or maybe in England? Although in England, apparently, our oligarchs are building squalid nuclear submarines and a stupid aircraft carrier, the aircraft carrier, it seems, is also in France
      1. Ross xnumx
        Ross xnumx 9 January 2021 13: 59
        +2
        Quote: KCA
        Perhaps the oligarchs in the United States are building aircraft carriers and nuclear submarines?

        Probably in the United States, the oligarchs pay taxes that allow them to build aircraft carriers and nuclear submarines. And in our country they only promised to increase the tax by 2%. But:

        In the United States, taxes are taken as follows:

        But in Russia? Some people cannot explain where they got 2 rubles from ...
        1. KCA
          KCA 9 January 2021 14: 11
          +4
          These are taxes on personal income, but how much do businessmen pay taxes, social services and other things for each employee in our country and in the USA? And how hard are they paid? In Russia, tax evasion can be thunderous, but it is unlikely that a person would rather give the money and will not go to court, or they simply take away the business and force them to pay an indemnity, the example of Abramovich is indicative, paid and free, and in the USA tax evasion is a serious crime, Al Capone could not close for organizing an organized criminal group and numerous murders, racketeering, etc., closed for tax crimes
          1. Vladimir1155
            Vladimir1155 9 January 2021 14: 30
            -6
            Quote: KCA
            how much businessmen pay taxes,

            nowhere in the world does big business pay a cent of taxes, because the income of the Federal Reserve System, banks and dividends on shares are not taxed ... and small and medium-sized entrepreneurs pay ... and even more so the working people
            1. KCA
              KCA 9 January 2021 15: 46
              0
              Trump is not a very small entrepreneur, but, most likely, after the transfer of powers of the president, he will be attracted for non-payment of taxes not according to the dezzki, well, so as not to sniff
              1. Vladimir1155
                Vladimir1155 9 January 2021 18: 37
                -3
                compared to the Fed owners, the shadow masters of the world, Trump is just a small entrepreneur
                1. KCA
                  KCA 9 January 2021 18: 59
                  -1
                  Well, I am a complete pragmatist and cynic, and although I even admit all sorts of conspiracy theories, I don’t believe in the complete domination of the FRS over the world, unlike the fakes with the Skripals and Navalny, it’s very easy to bang any person, and no one will know where his grave is
        2. timokhin-aa
          9 January 2021 18: 14
          0
          In the United States, the salary is calculated per year, not per month (for example, 120K per year is not bad, but for example 50K per year is very so-so), and taxes in different states may differ.
          Correct the training manual.
    3. Malyuta
      Malyuta 9 January 2021 13: 56
      +28
      Quote: ROSS 42
      Heavy thoughts. And the light at the end of the tunnel turned out to be the lights of an oncoming train ...

      Do not be sad, it will be even worse.
  • nikvic46
    nikvic46 9 January 2021 06: 23
    -12%
    No. Whatever the author says (in this I am a complete layman), at all times all the best weapons are for the enemy. And what about us? Lazy housing and communal services, full optimization. We respect the enemy.
  • Alexander Galaktionov
    Alexander Galaktionov 9 January 2021 06: 40
    +6
    The volley went off perfectly good Regarding obsolete torpedoes, but if this is the loading on the photo that the Author brought, then zvizdets, even on diesel pr 636 there are torpedoes Physicist, according to the photo they were loaded on the Black Sea Varshavyanka
  • Alexander Galaktionov
    Alexander Galaktionov 9 January 2021 06: 56
    -1
    But this is interesting. The author writes that pr 955 A does not have anti-torpedoes, physicist or physicist 2 torpedoes even exist? In general, according to the idea, everyone should have worked on the series of pr 955
    1. Machito
      Machito 9 January 2021 12: 25
      +1
      You have not read carefully. The author writes that there is USET-80 - an analogue of American torpedoes of the 60s.
    2. Fizik M
      Fizik M 15 January 2021 20: 33
      +2
      Quote: Alexander Galaktionov
      on series pr 955

      there were no physicists
      Quote: Alexander Galaktionov
      pr 955 A does not have anti-torpedoes, toreads of a physicist or a physicist 2 even exist?

      Physics-2 NO (in nature)
      Physics? They are banned for mate here.
  • Tagan
    Tagan 9 January 2021 06: 58
    -6
    Quote: ROSS 42
    Like after lines like this:
    The NSNF of the Pacific Fleet, deployed in the zone of dominance of the enemy's anti-submarine forces, in fact, have practically no combat value:

    Not to mention the yachts of "our" Russian oligarchs. Are they probably more important to the country? belay
    Heavy thoughts. And the light at the end of the tunnel turned out to be the lights of an oncoming train ...

    Are you replacing Svarog by chance?)))
    1. Machito
      Machito 9 January 2021 12: 27
      +3
      Svarog is irreplaceable. He has already been demoted from generals to privates twice, but he does not give up.
  • Xscorpion
    Xscorpion 9 January 2021 07: 20
    -22%
    This hysterical woman got it already. When she already realizes that it is impossible to assess the combat readiness of the fleet and the army from the photo, because journalists are allowed to shoot only what they are allowed to. This can be both information and disinformation. That there is a certain threshold of secrecy, the author also does not in the course, and one gets the impression that he never served, and he was fake and did not climb out of his offices, and saw the submarines only from photo reports. In his sick opinion, the commander of the Navy must personally report to him about all firing and combat launches. let him explain how the Americans will mine the areas of the Pacific Fleet's combat patrol in the Sea of ​​Okhotsk?
    1. Usher
      Usher 9 January 2021 07: 32
      +6
      Quote: Xscorpion
      This hysterical woman got it already. When she already realizes that it is impossible to assess the combat readiness of the fleet and the army from the photo, because journalists are allowed to shoot only what they are allowed to. This can be both information and disinformation. That there is a certain threshold of secrecy, the author also does not in the course, and one gets the impression that he never served, and he was fake and did not climb out of his offices, and saw the submarines only from photo reports. In his sick opinion, the commander of the Navy must personally report to him about all firing and combat launches. let him explain how the Americans will mine the areas of the Pacific Fleet's combat patrol in the Sea of ​​Okhotsk?

      The person is worried. And writes his thoughts. I am also fond of, and what I know is suggestive. Smart people always analyze information.
    2. Runway
      Runway 9 January 2021 08: 13
      +9
      Pull up the geography to "satisfactory" in a part of the Kuril archipelago, and then ask questions about mining "regions".
      The "partners" are officially and openly notified about the launches "in order to avoid ..." (like the Yankees of us).
    3. Machito
      Machito 9 January 2021 12: 29
      +1
      Quote: Xscorpion
      This hysterical woman got it already. When she already realizes that it is impossible to assess the combat readiness of the fleet and the army from the photo, because journalists are allowed to shoot only what they are allowed to. This can be both information and disinformation. That there is a certain threshold of secrecy, the author also does not in the course, and one gets the impression that he never served, and he was fake and did not climb out of his offices, and saw the submarines only from photo reports. In his sick opinion, the commander of the Navy must personally report to him about all firing and combat launches. let him explain how the Americans will mine the areas of the Pacific Fleet's combat patrol in the Sea of ​​Okhotsk?

      The author is a professional and knows the situation from the inside. In addition, he has insider information from former colleagues about the current state of the fleet, USC and the combat capabilities of the fleet.
      1. ccsr
        ccsr 9 January 2021 13: 07
        -1
        Quote: Bearded
        In addition, he has insider information from former colleagues about the current state of the fleet, USC and the combat capabilities of the fleet.

        Do not tell the people - what a normal officer will start leaking information to Klimov, knowing that he will then be calculated and sent to cut down the forest for divulging a secret. All that the author operates with is a collection of information from open sources, and the fact that he is a lobbyist for certain industrial structures is obvious to me. So one must be very careful in his assessments, because they can carry hidden propaganda of a new division of the military budget in the interests of those structures that support such authors financially in order to obtain profitable orders for themselves. But whether these orders are profitable for our country is a very interesting question for us. So you shouldn't fall for the bait of such "seekers of truth", but rather focus on our capabilities and how we imagine a future war, based on the existing weapons.
        1. Machito
          Machito 9 January 2021 13: 40
          +3
          Your conspiracy theory is worthy of separate consideration. Is there anything to object to the essence of the article?
          1. ccsr
            ccsr 9 January 2021 13: 43
            -2
            Quote: Bearded
            Your conspiracy theory is worthy of separate consideration. But on the merits of the article there is something to object

            This is not a theory, this is a practice known back in the Soviet military-industrial complex. Let me remind you simple-minded that the Buran was sold to Ustinov not by the military, but by the industry - such were the things even at that time.
            On the merits of the article, I gave a comment below - you can read it if you wish.
            1. Machito
              Machito 9 January 2021 13: 52
              +1
              With Buran, a good cut came out. But he was a response to diving into the atmosphere of shuttles over Moscow. And then Bullseye came. And with SDI, our intelligence and scientists gave a great blunder.
              1. ccsr
                ccsr 9 January 2021 18: 02
                +4
                Quote: Bearded
                And with SDI, our intelligence and scientists gave a great blunder.

                This is not at all the case, because the intelligence did not give any swing, and the specialists from the General Staff knew very well that this system was unviable and too costly. The main thing for industry and science was to get money to implement our "response" to the Americans, which they successfully did, despite the protests of the competent military.
                1. Fizik M
                  Fizik M 15 January 2021 20: 21
                  +1
                  Quote: ccsr
                  intelligence did not give any swing, and specialists from the General Staff already knew very well

                  warrant officers from hRU-hRU-hRU-mmm under a cucumber poured lol
            2. Fizik M
              Fizik M 15 January 2021 20: 23
              0
              Quote: ccsr
              I remind you simple-minded that "Buran" was sold to Ustinov not by the military, but by industry

              YOU are not in the subject
              ABSOLUTELY
              Quote: ccsr
              Essentially

              YOU HAVE BEEN
              once again
        2. Fizik M
          Fizik M 15 January 2021 20: 25
          0
          Quote: ccsr
          the fact that he is a lobbyist for certain industrial structures is obvious to me

          so sing birdie, don't be ashamed
          ZHDEMS
          or pick up your tongue (otherwise you will bite inadvertently)
    4. timokhin-aa
      9 January 2021 14: 23
      +14
      The author served first in the submarine, then in the PAD department, after being transferred to the reserve, he developed an MPS, in the "Region", he still continues to work in the defense industry, the last closed task is the summer of 2020.
      The author is more than in the subject on the issues described.

      What armored car are you driving from now?
    5. Fizik M
      Fizik M 15 January 2021 20: 30
      0
      Quote: Xscorpion
      This hysterical woman got it already.

      bunny, hysterical (from a torn template and a burning fillet) you fought here lol
      Quote: Xscorpion
      And let him explain how the Americans will mine the areas of the Pacific Fleet's combat patrol in the Sea of ​​Okhotsk?

      to whom? YOU? and the meaning of "throwing beads"?
      experts and those who already know everything with their heads (or guess)
  • oracul
    oracul 9 January 2021 07: 24
    -1
    Strange feeling from the article. The fact that there are problems, then where they are not. Only those who do nothing are not mistaken. Excessive detailing, conclusions about the unreadiness of our submarine fleet for a meeting with the enemy, somewhat resembles a report (to whom?) About the state of affairs, covered with a veil of objectivity.
    1. Machito
      Machito 9 January 2021 12: 31
      0
      Quote: oracul
      Strange feeling from the article. The fact that there are problems, then where they are not. Only those who do nothing are not mistaken. Excessive detailing, conclusions about the unreadiness of our submarine fleet for a meeting with the enemy, somewhat resembles a report (to whom?) About the state of affairs, covered with a veil of objectivity.

      It is unlikely that reports to the enemy are written in an online magazine. In addition, in the photographs attached to the article, there is a report to the Minister of Defense of the Russian Federation Shoigu.
  • Usher
    Usher 9 January 2021 07: 28
    +5
    This is an adequate analysis. Not something that came out a couple of days ago
  • Sahalinets
    Sahalinets 9 January 2021 07: 39
    +7
    At the same time, it is necessary to clearly understand that the formulation of "task No. 1" to our general-purpose naval forces (MSNF) as a cover for the NSNF actually cuts the possibility of conducting successful (active) hostilities (because the entire initiative is given to the enemy).

    Going over, Maxim! What kind of active actions can the Russian fleet conduct against the United States? Send a couple of submarines to Hawaii to be drowned there in no time? Let's say frankly that in the foreseeable future, the fleet simply will not be able to afford "active offensive operations." No money for this. And it won't. What's the point? In the days of the USSR, they were going to sink military convoys in the Atlantic, but in the current situation, they will not be especially. I'm not saying that the idea itself looked chimerical even then ...
    1. SVD68
      SVD68 9 January 2021 10: 38
      +1
      Doesn't go through. War is possible not only with the United States.
      Our fleet is constrained by the protection of our NSNF and we are not able to build and allocate ships for the OpEsk in case of a war with Turkey or Japan.
    2. Comrade I
      Comrade I 9 January 2021 12: 11
      +2
      The author did not write about this, if I understand correctly. Because protection can and should be
      active.

      Otherwise, there is a threat (or maybe it already is) that our NSNF will simply be squeezed at their own bases.
      1. forty-eighth
        forty-eighth 9 January 2021 17: 43
        +1
        Quote: Comrade Y

        Otherwise, there is a threat (or maybe it already is) that our NSNF will simply be squeezed at their own bases.

        This scenario is more than real. In the event of its implementation, our strategists can shoot right from the place of registration. Like any compromise, this option has its pros and cons. In any case, everything will depend on the current operational situation.
    3. Fizik M
      Fizik M 15 January 2021 20: 18
      +1
      Quote: Sahalinets
      What kind of active actions can the Russian fleet conduct against the United States? Send a couple of submarines to Hawaii to be drowned there in no time? Let's say frankly that in the foreseeable future, the fleet simply will not be able to afford "active offensive operations."

      maybe and should
  • Runway
    Runway 9 January 2021 07: 44
    +3
    Actual topic of BMTO. A little messy (emotionally), but to the point.
    1. Machito
      Machito 9 January 2021 12: 43
      +2
      Not a bit messy. The author has published several dozen articles on VO about the combat effectiveness of our fleet, constantly writes appeals to the Defense Ministry and the Minister of Defense, has his own concept of the development of the fleet.
      1. Scharnhorst
        Scharnhorst 9 January 2021 16: 02
        -2
        I also liked the article. Confused - yes! Ease of criticism, its superficial analysis, categorical and categorical conclusions do not allow probing the proposed development concept, or maybe it does not exist at all!
        1. Machito
          Machito 9 January 2021 16: 30
          -1
          In order to understand the author's vision of this question, you need to read the entire cycle of his articles. You can't fit in one article. There's materials for a whole book.
        2. Fizik M
          Fizik M 15 January 2021 20: 17
          +1
          Quote: Scharnhorst
          The ease of criticism, its superficial analysis, categorical and categorical conclusions do not allow probing the proposed development concept, or maybe it does not exist at all!

          lightness is YOUR - waving your tongue
    2. Malyuta
      Malyuta 9 January 2021 14: 36
      +22
      A good analytical article, this will not be shown on "Zvezda", nizzyayayaya unbend the buckle.
      1. Boa kaa
        Boa kaa 9 January 2021 21: 01
        +7
        Quote: Malyuta
        Good analytical article,

        Mina is a pro. And no one can take this away from him. But he is no psychologist. Therefore, his articles plunge into the quiet horror of the layman, cut off from the naval reality. This is true.
        I have spoken about this more than once. One cannot go too far without giving up hope for a way out of the "theme" crisis. If Klimov showed the issue of development from bad to better, but with problems that are being solved, but slowly, not as efficiently as we would like ... Then the impression from them would not be destructive, but "critically-positive." And so ... - Chief, everything is gone !! (from)
        What does not suit me in her.
        There is a reliable infa that Boriki and Yasnye are rearming to Physics. But Mina mentions this in passing. There is a USET-80/1 project, where the GOS and accumulators are changed, other mathematics of the RFS - other performance characteristics of the product are obtained. But this is silent.
        Then, if you think that they do not want to hear you in the high naval offices, and you sincerely believe that thereby harming the country's defense and the combat capability of the naval forces, write to the KGB !!! Let there "look under the microscope" at those who are engaged in "sabotage". Everything is so simple. I agree, this is "not chivalrous", but "if the case demands, then it must be done"!
        Then, there is such a thing as the Military Technical / Industrial Commission under the first persons. You can knock there ... (No. )
        But the trouble is that "upstairs" there are undercover fights between bulldogs and wolfhounds, and they simply do not see small mongrels there ... There are heavyweights, and each with its "team of undercover masters" ...
        So, not everything is as simple as it might seem after reading the article, even if it is correct.
        I still consider Maksim Aleksandrovich a pro and a courageous person. Timokhin's namesake has a wish - all the same, take into account my wishes in terms of style and method of presenting information to the public. And then after such articles I want to follow the example of AI Marinesko: batten down the upper conning tower and “digest” what was said for three days until the awl ends.
        Something like this, however. Yeah
        1. Vadim Zhivov
          Vadim Zhivov 10 January 2021 01: 49
          +2
          Dear Alexander ! The comment and wishes are just super! It's a pity that sometimes I don't drink drinks You +++++ hi
          1. Boa kaa
            Boa kaa 10 January 2021 15: 44
            +4
            Quote: VadimLives
            It's a pity that sometimes I don't drink

            Vadim hi
            It's good if by conviction ...
            It's bad if for health ...
            Therefore, I wish you good health in the new year and good luck in all your endeavors. yes
            1. Vadim Zhivov
              Vadim Zhivov 10 January 2021 17: 04
              +2
              Thank God by conviction ... Thank you for your congratulations and Alexander health and all the best !!! hi yes
        2. ccsr
          ccsr 10 January 2021 12: 49
          -4
          Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
          But the trouble is that "upstairs" there are undercover fights between bulldogs and wolfhounds, and they simply do not see small mongrels there ... There are heavyweights, and each with its "team of undercover masters" ...

          Yes, it was in Soviet times, and only Gorshkov's quirks because of his involvement in the Politburo gave the fleet unthinkable funds for its development. This was due to the fact that he promised to catch up with the Americans, and we would become a world ocean power. The groundmen, of course, laughed at these crazy ideas, but the then order forbade shoving against the elders from the Politburo, which is why even then smart people understood that the Strategic Missile Forces were enough for us to put the whole world into dust.
          The result of all this orgy, including the construction of Buran, aircraft carriers, BRZD, etc. led to dire consequences for the country's economy, and then something happened that even the Americans did not expect from us. Here is such a sad story, and people like Klimov dream that we will again step on the same rake ...
          1. Fizik M
            Fizik M 15 January 2021 20: 04
            0
            Quote: ccsr
            in Soviet times, it was, and only Gorshkov's quirks because of his entry into the Politburo gave the fleet unthinkable means for its development. This was due to the fact that he promised to catch up with the Americans

            YOU'RE LYING
        3. Fizik M
          Fizik M 15 January 2021 20: 16
          0
          Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
          There is a reliable infa that Boriki and Yasnye are rearming to Physics.

          885 had them initially
          955 - if the process has begun, then quite recently (after the SPORK in the media)
          Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
          There is a USET-80/1 project, where the GOS and accumulators are changed, another mathematics of the RFS - other performance characteristics of the product are obtained. But this is silent.

          this is "Kant", which is often written in "English transcription" (THERE IS FOR WHAT) - I will not cite it, because there is a moderator girl who reacts "very emotionally" to "boatswain's expressions"
          TTX "Kant" - sucks
          FULL
          the ROC itself is a SCAM: NOT a SINGLE test with a combat battery, the SRS was specially placed "on the sidelines", etc.
          Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
          there is such a thing as the Military Technical / Industrial Commission under the top officials. You can knock there.

          read my article on "Severodvinsk"
          CAREFULLY and with SURNAMES
  • tone
    tone 9 January 2021 07: 48
    +2
    We need a Stalinist purge in the navy. Admirals in the service not of Russia, but of the campaign of another country ...
  • S. Viktorovich
    S. Viktorovich 9 January 2021 07: 52
    0
    The author's polemical fervor is understandable and, apparently, justified. There are dozens of modern minesweepers in each of the fleets, and each boat must have modern torpedoes. However, for our country, taking into account economic constraints and the foreign policy situation, the first place should be the maintenance of strategic forces in the minimum required composition. The main task is deterrence by creating threats that are unacceptable to the potential enemy.
    1. Machito
      Machito 9 January 2021 12: 44
      +3
      The author writes that the fulfillment of the Main Task is under threat.
    2. ccsr
      ccsr 9 January 2021 12: 59
      +2
      Quote: S. Viktorovich
      However, for our country, just taking into account the economic constraints and the foreign policy situation, the first place should be the maintenance of strategic forces in the minimum required composition. The main task is deterrence by creating threats that are unacceptable to the potential enemy.

      Yes, it is precisely from such positions that we must approach the assessment of our security, and not from those that we concede in something non-strategic. Otherwise, we will go to peace again - we have already gone through this.
    3. Fizik M
      Fizik M 15 January 2021 20: 03
      +1
      Quote: S. Viktorovich
      The main task is deterrence by creating threats that are unacceptable to the potential enemy.

      AGAIN-
      KEY REQUIREMENT FOR MSYAS - BATTLE RESISTANCE
      the meaning of the NSNF is precisely this, and if there is no BU, then ...
  • Bulgarian
    Bulgarian 9 January 2021 07: 58
    -19%
    I see the year on VO began with numerous "all-inclusive" articles. Everything is wrong and everything is wrong. I wonder if this coincidence or preparation for elections 21.
    1. bar
      bar 9 January 2021 09: 39
      -13%
      Quote: Bulgarian
      I see the year on VO began with numerous "all-inclusive" articles.

      The sect of all-propals on VO has been living and flourishing since ancient times, and has never gone anywhere. And topics for pessimists are always there - from polymers to aircraft carriers and minesweepers. Our Navy is generally a heavenly place for the development of a depressive, thanks to the naval leadership for this.
      1. SovAr238A
        SovAr238A 9 January 2021 18: 36
        +2
        Quote: bar
        Quote: Bulgarian
        I see the year on VO began with numerous "all-inclusive" articles.

        The sect of all-propals on VO has been living and flourishing since ancient times, and has never gone anywhere. And topics for pessimists are always there - from polymers to aircraft carriers and minesweepers. Our Navy is generally a heavenly place for the development of a depressive, thanks to the naval leadership for this.


        Just earlier, in 2013-2017, the category "urya-urya" was literally a dozen business women.
        Of these, Meehan made up half :))))

        And any article was a discussion. and not throwing hats.

        The last 3 years, on the site there is just some kind of dominance of "urya-urya" and normal people are really tired of it ....
        And this is "Urya-urya" - just like the manuals.
        Absolutely the same words.
        They will run up as if on command - they will pull on.
        Questions are not answered.
        The Order of the "Stoop" will be organized at the forum.
        Each other plus signs will be instructed in the marshals in a couple of months will get out.
        Lyapota ...

        Tired of just looking at it ...
        When you have real life around you and you visit factories, see people, hire people with a "past", hear what they say ... On the one hand.
        And people with "Carbonic power" in their heads, with Nazism, with anti-Semitism with racism in their heads on the other hand ...
        To be honest, I myself am a fan of "healthy nationalism". But he must be his own! Reasonable! And he should be directed towards his own when choosing "his or someone else's. All other things being equal" ...
        And it is simply offensive to treat people from Israel - simply because they are from Israel - this is shameful!
        just as there are people from Bulgaria on the forum - they also get it!

        Where does this Great Russian chauvinism come from? On condition. that in my 50 years in my everyday life I have never seen him !!!! And on the site it just blooms and smells. Apparently supported by the administration in fact!

        But they are not insulted for that. what is bad for them, but for that. that we have bad things and this is their fault ... "If there is no water in the house, then the Jews have drunk" - this is their principle!

        So I have been reading this site since 2013, and for me the "hurray-urya" and Nazism are already clearly formed - one and the same!
        1. bar
          bar 9 January 2021 18: 45
          +3
          Quote: SovAr238A
          the site is just some kind of dominance of "urya-urya" and normal people are really tired of it ....

          You will laugh, but there are people who are really tired of the constant depression and whining. This also happens.

          Quote: SovAr238A
          for me, "urya-urya" and Nazism are already clearly formed - the same thing!

          So they sailed, already accused of Nazism. You at least read what this word means before throwing poop. You, as a representative of God's chosen people, are ashamed not to know this.
          1. SovAr238A
            SovAr238A 9 January 2021 18: 49
            +1
            Quote: bar
            You, as a representative of God's chosen people, are ashamed not to know this.


            Here again ...

            If I disagree with you, am I a Jew?
            did you register me as a Jew?
            What for?
            Explain your thoughts to me!
            Pliz!

            Me.
            Samara man is 50 years old.
            Half-breed, half Bashkir by mother, half Russian by father ...

            Why and why did you write. that I am a Jew!
            What prompted you to do this?
            Voice the course of your miracle of thought to me!
            1. bar
              bar 9 January 2021 18: 52
              -4
              Quote: SovAr238A
              If I disagree with you, am I a Jew?
              did you register me as a Jew?

              Well, if I disagree with you, you signed me up as a Nazi, and why can't I? laughing

              By the way, you are a very bright representative of the all-propals. This is quite revealing laughing
              1. SovAr238A
                SovAr238A 9 January 2021 19: 17
                +4
                Quote: bar
                Quote: SovAr238A
                If I disagree with you, am I a Jew?
                did you register me as a Jew?

                Well, if I disagree with you, you signed me up as a Nazi, and why can't I? laughing

                By the way, you are a very bright representative of the all-propals. This is quite revealing laughing

                And the entry into Jews - from people like you?
                you are not the first or the last ...
                For your manuals, this is probably indicative!
                And the attitude towards all foreigners on this site is brightly Nazi.
                So I'm sorry - but I deserve it!

                I am not all felons.
                I do not fail to see those who shrug for no reason.

                I've never said anything bad about something that really works well.

                Not a bad word was said from me about the Iskander, the URTTKh, or the aircraft of the Su family, or about some types of troops and many other topics ...
                But I will speak badly about what is really bad.
                About the fact that there is no precision engineering.
                About the fact that there is no material science.
                About the fact that there are no optics.
                About the fact that the military-industrial complex is now in that form - it's all under execution ...
                These are the realities of life, I work with it and see it.

                So why should I be silent about this?
                1. bar
                  bar 9 January 2021 19: 19
                  -4
                  Ostap suffered (s) laughing
                  I'll leave just in case, until I hurt hi
        2. Terenin
          Terenin 10 January 2021 00: 18
          +2
          Quote: SovAr238A
          So I have been reading this site since 2013, and for me the "hurray-urya" and Nazism are already clearly formed - one and the same!

          It happens that somewhere he himself is "galloping across Europe" due to lack of time, with "smart conclusions", but, as a rule, forum users will slow down like "fish on ice," nothing is scary, the forum is the forum. I am grateful for this drinks
    2. Scharnhorst
      Scharnhorst 9 January 2021 16: 05
      0
      I noticed the same, especially against the background of Ukrainian "breakthroughs" and peremogs in all branches of military affairs! laughing
  • Cyril G ...
    Cyril G ... 9 January 2021 08: 09
    +10
    The NSNF of the Pacific Fleet, deployed in the zone of dominance of the enemy's anti-submarine forces, in fact, have practically no combat value:

    • there is no anti-mine and anti-submarine support;
    • there are no new torpedoes (which is - antique "firewood");
    • there are no new missiles (anti-ship missiles and anti-ballistic missiles);
    • no anti-torpedo protection.


    It would be worth adding that on top of all the problems, Petropavlovsk is covered by exactly 1 (one !!!) squadron of MiG-31
    1. Runway
      Runway 9 January 2021 08: 40
      +7
      Taki covers the North-East direction. In theory, according to the situation, some SAPs will be transferred both to Elizovo and Magadan.
      In Primorye, the a / base did evolve into a two-regimental a / division (although the number of boards did not increase, but a stripe post appeared).
      1. Cyril G ...
        Cyril G ... 9 January 2021 09: 52
        -2
        Quote: WFP
        In Primorye, the a / base did evolve into a two-regimental a / division (although the number of boards did not increase, but a stripe post appeared).

        Exactly? Then 22 IAP and 530 IAPs? Central Corner and Chuguevka? So there the decision was to send the MiG to Chuguevka, and the Central Corner will be on the Sukhikh.
        And I don’t know how many old pictures are on Google now ...
        In the 17th year in Uglovoy there were 23 Sukhiz + 6 in the slop and 24 MiG + 10 in the slop.
        1. Runway
          Runway 9 January 2021 10: 09
          +3
          Exactly. Although the 31st are still buzzing towards Ussuriysk, and crackers overhead no, no, but they are spinning towards Amur ...
          When the iron goes to Chuguevka - xs.
          1. Cyril G ...
            Cyril G ... 9 January 2021 10: 12
            -2
            I saw a picture of Chuguevka about a year ago - a squadron of Su-27 and a squadron of MiG-31 were sitting. I don't know the date ...
            1. Runway
              Runway 9 January 2021 10: 23
              +1
              Two + two. “I think so” (c) It’s bad that the popular omen about “if they fly, the weather is good” is relevant.
              1. Cyril G ...
                Cyril G ... 9 January 2021 10: 26
                +1
                But fig knows him. I noticed that the dump, for example, the MiG-31 in Monchegorsk, was plundered, and 150 pieces were modernized according to rumors
                1. Runway
                  Runway 9 January 2021 10: 36
                  +3
                  laughing two APs, two AEs each. “Definitely” (son of a lawyer). But if you "estimate" the materiel of the "earth", then "if faq" 3-4 SAP can be comfortably "relocated" from the Continent.
                  1. Cyril G ...
                    Cyril G ... 9 January 2021 11: 04
                    +2
                    Well, you know, in Primorye and near Murmansk, it is necessary to deploy a minimum of IAP, moreover, on the Su-35 or Su-30SMD, and in Kamchatka, the squadron must be deployed back to the IAP with two squadrons on the MiG-31 and one on the Su-30SM / SMD. And we gave censored stuntmen 8 Su-35s. There are no words.
                    If Kubinka urgently needed new horses instead of the driven ones, well, they would have ordered the most simplified and cheaper Su-30M2 for them.
                    1. Runway
                      Runway 9 January 2021 11: 32
                      +2
                      I believe that the GOU sees the "build-up" of the group in a special period.
                      Kamchatka - yes, at least 1 SAP (1 ae sous / moment not "dagger") and a run through airfields (from Anadyr to Vladik) with a touch of the entire VKS grouping (VVO and TsVO) - all the more useful than the Syrian madhouse.
                      1. Cyril G ...
                        Cyril G ... 9 January 2021 12: 28
                        0
                        They need commandant's offices everywhere throughout the Far East, at least on the basis of simultaneously refueling and servicing a link of fighters
                      2. Runway
                        Runway 9 January 2021 12: 45
                        +3
                        Nuuuu ... the number of aeroporiums (including non-Red Army ones) within the number of fingers on the hands. Co-location is not a question ...
                        It's just that for such a Work, hopeless stars and Heroes (materiel reward a la "combat" bonus) will not be given.
                        DV TVD, subjectively, is secondary (there are few of us here and far from the shirnarmass).
                      3. Cyril G ...
                        Cyril G ... 9 January 2021 12: 48
                        -1
                        it is yes. Alas. Then a rhetorical question, is it meaningful for us to keep the Navy in the Far East that is not inferior to either the Japanese, or the Koreans, or the South? You cannot be equally strong everywhere.
                      4. Runway
                        Runway 9 January 2021 13: 14
                        +4
                        "We are from simple dogs, not from purebred!" laughing
                        Subjectively:
                        - the presence of military ships in the Sea of ​​Japan and the northern part of TO during the period of growing threat will allow to pull off part of the forces of the "partners"
                        - in the Far East there are still our island territories.
                        Taking into account the fact that Bulava from Murmansk to San Francisco “cut” for a third of the time longer than from PK, I do not see the expediency of finding an SSBN in Kamchatka.
                      5. Cyril G ...
                        Cyril G ... 9 January 2021 13: 21
                        +1
                        Quote: WFP
                        Taking into account the fact that Bulava from Murmansk to San Francisco “cut” for a third of the time longer than from PK, I do not see the expediency of finding an SSBN in Kamchatka.

                        The presence of SSBNs in Petropalovsk personally for me has long been a big question. IMHO it was not necessary to send 955 projects from the word there at all. Would write off BDR sooner or later and that's the end of it. nakraynyak from the North to transfer a pair of 667BDRM temporarily to serve.
                      6. Runway
                        Runway 9 January 2021 13: 46
                        +4
                        I agree. Taking into account the likelihood of arming the steamers with a potential Caliber-M (if the cook is not lying to us, then the kerosene stove will last for 4,5 thousand km) and the dead INF Treaty - P-K may well become a home for surface steamers. Big and small.
                        In Vladik - the fleet of the Sea of ​​Japan (MPK, PMK base, diesel and MRK with bervoyski and marines).
                        But, the guys in AVO know better in terms of salary.
                      7. Cyril G ...
                        Cyril G ... 9 January 2021 13: 58
                        +2
                        But.....
                        On the Far East VLadivostok as the main naval base in the theater of operations, well, the edge is inconvenient. Which directly hinted to us in ancient times that the main fleets (Pacific Fleet and Northern Fleet) should not be made equally powerful ...
                      8. Runway
                        Runway 9 January 2021 15: 55
                        0
                        Vladik was born as a sea base earlier than Ermak ... Oddly enough, but from Vladivostok it is more convenient to quickly "work" in the territory of its neighbors by sea, covering the Far East from the southeast and east (with an emphasis on Sakhalin, because the north "partners" have nothing to catch ).
                      9. Cyril G ...
                        Cyril G ... 9 January 2021 17: 52
                        +1
                        As advanced, yes - good ...
              2. Vladimir1155
                Vladimir1155 9 January 2021 14: 43
                +3
                Quote: WFP
                It takes a mace from Murmansk to San Francisco to "cut" a third of the time longer than from P-K,

                Then in general it is possible to replace all rpksn with yars? Is it really incomprehensible that the Maces are not intended to be sawed from the base, it must suddenly jump out of the water under the Yankee's nose, 300 miles from California ..... this is what scares the Yankees.
              3. Boa kaa
                Boa kaa 9 January 2021 21: 27
                +5
                Quote: vladimir1155
                she must suddenly jump out of the water under the nose of the Yankees, 300 miles from California ..... that's what scares the Yankees.

                Well, 300 will not be enough, that way for 1000 miles - that's it! And they won't even have time to get scared!
                And what breaks the template for lovers of crap is the quiet solitary disappearance of APRK SN from the BP area ...
                It's time to forget the nonsense about the MPLA convoy. The tactics have long been completely different ...
                And here's how the Bay of St. Lawrence is doing ... I haven't heard for a long time ... Maybe the ROPs have gone for a walk to other lands?
                Oh, tofyats! You don’t appreciate free access to clean water !!!
              4. Cyril G ...
                Cyril G ... 9 January 2021 22: 46
                -3
                Quote: BoA KAA

                It's time to forget the nonsense about the MPLA convoy. The tactics have long been completely different ...
                !


                Well, if multipurpose nuclear submarines through the efforts of the command of the fleet ended completely from the word, then now we will, like an ostrich, stick our heads in the sand and howl that we will go the other way and that our tactics are now different? And then the acoustician of Devstvenitsa says in an interview that the pump junk on the stupid Russians on Monomakh?

                Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
                to throw a landing party on Hokkaido for the sake of spite ...

                Uh, what will we plant?
              5. Boa kaa
                Boa kaa 9 January 2021 22: 55
                +3
                Quote: Cyril G ...
                We will go the other way and that our tactics are different now?

                Yes, it changed after our missile launchers became quieter than the multipurpose ones, which were used to determine the area where the BS was carried by the "cow". Now multipurpose overlaps the direction, following the moving point, rather than jostling around the ROP.
                Quote: Cyril G ...
                what will we plant?

                Two on the Bay are kind of sculpted. Two are boiled in Yantar. Therefore - "the hour is uneven, they can steal our Green" (c)
                Moscow, it was also not built right away ...
                AHA.
                PS And "all at once" - even good restaurants do not serve, unless, of course, you order "yesterday's cold cabbage soup"! laughing
              6. Cyril G ...
                Cyril G ... 9 January 2021 23: 01
                0
                Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
                Two on the Bay are kind of sculpted.


                Forget about these. Some kind of madhouse was it really impossible to build a series of Grenovs, at least for the Baltic and the World Cup. And then I watch the "parade of samples" only blooms and smells!
              7. Fizik M
                Fizik M 15 January 2021 19: 58
                +1
                Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
                Yes, it changed after our missile launchers became quieter than the multipurpose ones, which were used to determine the area where the BS was carried by the "cow". Now multipurpose overlaps the direction, following the moving point, rather than jostling around the ROP.

                everything is much more complicated
                for reference - PTU-5 worked out
                incl. and 170 after his watch, - with real contacts
    2. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa 9 January 2021 21: 17
      +2
      Quote: Cyril G ...
      meaning we keep the Navy in the Far East

      Probably, in order to provide 25 DSPLs and send troops to Hokkaido for an ostracis ... bully
  • frog
    frog 9 January 2021 15: 20
    0
    and rumored to have modernized 150

    According to strong rumors .....
    1. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... 9 January 2021 22: 47
      -1
      Then there are 120 pieces based on well-known contracts ...
      1. frog
        frog 10 January 2021 11: 33
        0
        Let's just say, it's very difficult to say what exactly is there - modernization or .... restoration to the possibility of exploitation ... I have already encountered this several times .... Again, since there is no more rumble, the work is over. Obviously, under the herringbone ....
  • frog
    frog 9 January 2021 15: 17
    +2
    although the number of boards did not increase, but the stripe position appeared.

    It's a tradition ...
  • Machito
    Machito 9 January 2021 12: 45
    +4
    Naval aviation is in a state of flux.
    1. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... 9 January 2021 12: 51
      +5
      And this is also true ..... The fleet command wanted to spit on their aviation.
  • Vladimir1155
    Vladimir1155 9 January 2021 14: 39
    -1
    Quote: Cyril G ...
    Petropavlovsk is covered by exactly 1 (one !!!) squadron of MiG-31

    and this is clearly not enough, I will say in a manly way without lisping, it is necessary to transfer the entire Pacific Fleet to Petropavlovsk and the high-flying unit of aviation. The well-known thesis of Kutuzov "let's save the army, save Russia", "the army is more important than Moscow" or Vladivostok. If the enemy knows that he will receive a guaranteed nuclear response for aggression, then we will save Vladivostok, and if Vladik is guarded by ships, they will be drowned ... And the Baltic Fleet must be transferred to Severomorsk and most of the Black Sea Fleet, the corvettes must be taken from the Caspian.
    1. ccsr
      ccsr 9 January 2021 18: 17
      +3
      Quote: vladimir1155
      And the Baltic Fleet must be transferred to Severomorsk and most of the Black Sea Fleet, the corvettes must be taken from the Caspian Sea.

      It is more expedient to reduce the BF to a flotilla, and transfer the posts to the Northern Fleet, as well as some materiel. Because with modern coastal anti-ship systems and existing aerospace forces, the cities of Kaliningrad and St. Petersburg are much better protected than the BF ship assets can do.
      1. Vladimir1155
        Vladimir1155 10 January 2021 19: 37
        -2
        Quote: ccsr
        Because with modern coastal anti-ship systems and existing aerospace forces, the cities of Kaliningrad and St. Petersburg are much better protected than the BF ship assets can do.

        absolutely right! this is obvious for a shallow and narrow body of water
        1. ccsr
          ccsr 10 January 2021 19: 44
          -2
          Quote: vladimir1155
          this is obvious for a shallow and narrow body of water

          The same applies to the Black Sea Fleet, although there are more depths of the Black Sea. But the coastal infrastructure of the fleet is so developed that it makes no sense to keep a large number of surface ships. And in general, the Black Sea Fleet, in my opinion, should simply be turned into one large training base and trained there specialists for all fleets, and not imitate "violent" combat training in a closed water area. There will be much more benefit from this for the country, and it will also save other fleets from the tasks of maintaining various schools, schools, studies and courses.
          1. Vladimir1155
            Vladimir1155 10 January 2021 20: 22
            -1
            Quote: ccsr
            The same applies to the Black Sea Fleet, although there are more depths of the Black Sea. But the coastal infrastructure of the fleet is so developed that it makes no sense to keep a large number of surface ships.

            quite rightly., in addition to diesel-electric submarines, you can only have MRK and MPK minesweepers, landing ships, coastal aircraft. And large NKs are not needed there at all, we can only leave Pytlivy and Tatarstan with Dagestan, instead of a cruiser and three frigates with corvettes, the SF will be doubled, and if 4 more corvettes from the Baltic will pull up ... even Kuzya will be able to move away from the coast under their protection and finally begin to control the Barents
          2. Fizik M
            Fizik M 15 January 2021 19: 50
            0
            Quote: ccsr
            And in general, the Black Sea Fleet, in my opinion, should simply be turned into one large training base and trained there specialists for all fleets

            fool
            YOUR ACHINEA says that YOU never did real combat training
    2. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa 9 January 2021 21: 32
      +3
      Quote: vladimir1155
      Quote: Cyril G ...
      Petropavlovsk is covered by exactly 1 (one !!!) squadron of MiG-31

      and this is clearly not enough, I will say in a manly way without lisping, it is necessary to transfer the entire Pacific Fleet to Petropavlovsk and the high-flying unit of aviation. The well-known thesis of Kutuzov "let's save the army, save Russia", "the army is more important than Moscow" or Vladivostok. If the enemy knows that he will receive a guaranteed nuclear response for aggression, then we will save Vladivostok, and if Vladik is guarded by ships, they will be drowned ... And the Baltic Fleet must be transferred to Severomorsk and most of the Black Sea Fleet, the corvettes must be taken from the Caspian.

      You see, you have not heard anything about the system of basing the forces of the fleet, the dispersal of forces along the IN, if you want to collect all the eggs in one basket ...
      maybe you were kidding? If - "no", then it's time to see a doctor.
      AHA.
      1. Vladimir1155
        Vladimir1155 10 January 2021 19: 49
        -4
        Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
        want to collect all your eggs in one basket ...

        childish babble, if only a potential enemy has only two missiles ... then yeah, ....... and if he has hundreds of them, then such a dispersal is an empty useless sound, there will be enough missiles for everyone, no matter how much you run up
      2. Fizik M
        Fizik M 15 January 2021 19: 48
        +2
        Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
        want to collect all your eggs in one basket ...

        and no need to collect
        it would be better instead of Rybachiy 955 they would send to Gremikha ... if not for the troubles of BulaFa
        1. Boa kaa
          Boa kaa 15 January 2021 20: 49
          +1
          Quote: Fizik M
          it would be better instead of Rybachy 955 they would send to Gremikha

          Then it would be necessary to close the firm "25 diPL" ... In the north, at least something of the old is still moving, and the Kamchedals with their Squids are breathing in incense. Therefore, as they say - to support the pants.
          1. Fizik M
            Fizik M 15 January 2021 21: 03
            +2
            Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
            Then it would be necessary to close the firm "25 diPL".

            it makes sense
            a strike fleet should be based in Kamchatka
            this is our ONLY normal exit to the ocean
            1. Boa kaa
              Boa kaa 15 January 2021 21: 09
              +1
              Quote: Fizik M
              this is our ONLY normal exit to the ocean
              Perhaps that's the way it is. However, ensuring the deployment of forces is also not weak. And secondly, how can you solve the problem of low-frequency illumination? Only by physically destroying the media? So until the war ...
              And two eternal Russian questions rise to the full extent of our foolishness: Who is to blame? and - What to do?
    3. Xscorpion
      Xscorpion 10 January 2021 00: 48
      0
      Quote: vladimir1155
      Quote: Cyril G ...
      Petropavlovsk is covered by exactly 1 (one !!!) squadron of MiG-31

      and this is clearly not enough, I will say in a manly way without lisping, it is necessary to transfer the entire Pacific Fleet to Petropavlovsk and the high-flying unit of aviation. The well-known thesis of Kutuzov "let's save the army, save Russia", "the army is more important than Moscow" or Vladivostok. If the enemy knows that he will receive a guaranteed nuclear response for aggression, then we will save Vladivostok, and if Vladik is guarded by ships, they will be drowned ... And the Baltic Fleet must be transferred to Severomorsk and most of the Black Sea Fleet, the corvettes must be taken from the Caspian.

      Would you say yes to NATO, otherwise they form their own units, including the fleet, spend money, but it turns out that you can just remove them?
      PS Sometimes units of the fleet and army are needed in a certain place only in order to pin down part of the enemy's forces in this place. There will be no fleet in the Baltic, which means that the enemy will have several dozen more ships in the North
      1. Vladimir1155
        Vladimir1155 10 January 2021 20: 09
        -2
        Quote: Xscorpion
        Sometimes units of the fleet and army are needed in a certain place only in order to pin down part of the enemy's forces in this place.

        aha, and how will they shackle the enemy if they are destroyed by the enemy's coastal assets 7.5 minutes after leaving the base? expensive pleasure for shackling a pair of launchers of coastal complexes to contain an entire fleet (exposing all SSBNs) and sacrifice it and the entire crew for the sake of "shackling" ... of course, there are situations when you have to sacrifice someone or something for the sake of victory, for example, the heroic deed of Alexander Matrosov, ... but initially it is criminal to plan such methods of war! you can't get enough of any corvettes ... ...
        Norway started developing anti-ship missiles back in the mid 60s of the last century and reached considerable heights. As a matter of fact, this country is one of the world's leading developers of small-sized anti-ship complexes. NSM (Naval strike missile) - a missile weighing 407 kg, including the mass of a penetrating high-explosive warhead of 125 kg. Its firing range is up to 185 km, its speed is 0,95 M, and the missile's seeker (GOS) is infrared. Autonomous target selection is provided, carried out by comparing the target image from the seeker sensor with the templates of typical target images stored in memory.

        The rocket turned out to be very successful. Now it is in service with a number of countries, including Norway itself and the United States. It can be used both from board surface ships and from coastal launchers. There is also its aviation version. Warsaw purchased 50 of these missiles. Launchers, control radars are joint Polish-Norwegian developments.

        When firing from a point of permanent deployment - the village of Semirovice near the city of Gdynia - objects of the main naval base of the Baltic Fleet (Baltiysk), as well as other targets on the territory of the Kaliningrad region of Russia, up to the Zelenograd-Kaliningrad-Bagrationovsk line can be hit. The NSM flight time to Baltiysk will be about 7,5 minutes.

        On January 1, 2015, the Naval Missile Unit, consisting of two divisions, was formed as part of the Polish Navy. This has become, perhaps, the most significant event in the history of the Polish Navy over the past two decades.

        Does this pose a threat to the Russian Baltic Fleet? Certainly. The Poles believe that this military formation will be able to block the deployment of naval forces from Baltiysk. In general, the coastal missile forces are intended for this.
  • Sergey Samkov
    Sergey Samkov 9 January 2021 08: 11
    -31%
    Another whining of the "all-ravenous" ...
    1. Aleksandr1971
      Aleksandr1971 9 January 2021 08: 25
      +18
      To characterize the author of the article in this way, it is necessary to analyze all his theses step by step and refute them with your arguments.

      But you are obviously too lazy. In that case, this remark of yours, Sergey Samkov, is just how to spoil the air.
      1. Dangerous
        Dangerous 9 January 2021 09: 37
        +14
        Do you think he mastered at least one paragraph? The main thing was hanging a label on the person and went on.
      2. Dread
        Dread 9 January 2021 09: 56
        -7
        Quote: Aleksandr1971
        To characterize the author of the article in this way, it is necessary to analyze all his theses step by step and refute them with your arguments.

        Aleksandr 1971 - when the author of the article, not understanding radar and the physics of interception, shows his complete illiteracy in intercepting an air target by the "Thundering" at a distance of 9 km, and at the same time blaming the developers of Zaslon, this speaks volumes about these authors: Klimov and Timokhin, it would be better not to touch these topics - the profane in this ...
        1. Asad
          Asad 9 January 2021 10: 11
          +7
          Can you give more details?
        2. Cyril G ...
          Cyril G ... 9 January 2021 10: 16
          +6
          Quote: Dread
          while blaming the developers of the Barrier,

          Is there radio correction there at the Zaslon? And it is not worth 6.3 billion rubles?
          1. Dread
            Dread 9 January 2021 12: 28
            -5
            Quote: Cyril G ...
            Quote: Dread

            Alexander 1971 - when the author of the article, not understanding radar and the physics of interception, shows his complete illiteracy in intercepting an air target by the "Thundering" at a distance of 9 km, while blaming the developers of Zaslon, then this says a lot about these authors: Klimov and Timokhin, it would be better not to touch these topics - the profane in this ...

            Is there radio correction there at the Zaslon? And it is not worth 6.3 billion rubles?
            Is there radio correction there at the Zaslon? And it is not worth 6.3 billion rubles?

            Kirill G ... P should not be confused with hot and soft. The conversation was about something else:
            Quote: Maxim Klimov Leaky umbrella of the fleet. Technical analysis of the "Thundering" firing

            Second, assuming the worst conditions - the radar height of 20 m and the target flight height in these tests, 70 m, we get the radio horizon according to the RM-15 in these tests 48 km (in reality - more). We take the declared 0,95 for the STC, we get 44,5 km, on which the IBMK simply had to detect and conduct the RM-15 with an EPR of 1,3 m2 (while according to the TTZ it is obvious that this figure is much higher). This value is close to the far border of the 9M96 missile defense zone.
            Let's take the reaction time of the air defense missile system for 10 seconds (for a ship in combat readiness No. 1 there are a lot), then the missile defense system will be launched at a distance of 40 km to the target. Let's say the average speed of convergence between RM and SAM is 1 km / s, then the target will be hit in 40 s at a distance of about 26 km.
            In fact, we have a target defeat at 9 km! Forgive me, but even the Sosny missile defense system works at such ranges (an order of magnitude cheaper than the gold 9M96)!
            What (and who - their creators) really worked at "5+" on these firing - SAMs 9M96.

            And where does the Barrier. SAM 9M96 probably hung in the air? Or Captain Klimov miscalculated?
            1. Cyril G ...
              Cyril G ... 9 January 2021 12: 45
              +4
              Quote: Dread
              do not confuse soft with hot. The conversation was about something else:


              I do not confuse if that, but put the question on the merits.
        3. Fizik M
          Fizik M 15 January 2021 19: 46
          +1
          Quote: Dread
          the author of the article, not versed in radar and the physics of interception, shows his complete illiteracy in intercepting an air target by the "Thundering" at a distance of 9 km,

          Monsieur Dred, YOU wrote in complete illiteracy - with your ACHINEA
          Quote: Dread
          while blaming the developers of Zaslon,

          YOU are on fire, urgently save your "fillet" with a fire extinguisher! lol
      3. Sling cutter
        Sling cutter 9 January 2021 10: 08
        +7
        Quote: Aleksandr1971
        But you are obviously too lazy. In that case, this remark of yours, Sergey Samkov, is just how to spoil the air.

        this is a troll yes
        1. Aleksandr1971
          Aleksandr1971 9 January 2021 10: 55
          +8
          I looked at the profile of this Sergey Samkov. He has only 6 comments on this site, 3-4 lines each with the same content - to fart in passing at any author of the article. This is of course a fat troll.
          1. Machito
            Machito 9 January 2021 12: 48
            +4
            Well, Sergei Samkov does not write to the Minister of Defense for sure. Intellect does not allow.
  • Sasha from Uralmash
    Sasha from Uralmash 9 January 2021 08: 30
    -9
    Nothing new! The guano was not delivered, the shovels were not given!
  • Bez 310
    Bez 310 9 January 2021 09: 20
    +5
    "... tough questions remain ..."
    Will we wait for answers to these questions?
    Something I doubt ...
    Will there be a naval parade in 2021?
    1. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... 9 January 2021 10: 19
      +8
      And the parades at the bases are a tradition and not bad ..... But the GVMP is utter nonsense. There is at least some sense in holding it only on round dates such as the three hundredth anniversary of the Navy.
    2. Machito
      Machito 9 January 2021 12: 50
      +3
      The best parades are detachments of ships opposite the enemy's naval bases, not the formation of warships in a line on the Neva River. And most importantly: Peter's boat was the first to launch.
  • steelmaker
    steelmaker 9 January 2021 09: 32
    +4
    Money is everything!
    "federal budget in the amount of 11121358590,0 thousand rubles (paragraph as amended, entered into force on June 7, 2011"
    "2021 - revenues: 18,8 trillion rubles, expenses: 21,52 trillion rubles"
    And now what Putin says: (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJo1YvNI6EQ&ab_channe)
    They steal!
    1. Sling cutter
      Sling cutter 9 January 2021 10: 07
      +7
      Quote: steel maker
      And now what Putin says: (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJo1YvNI6EQ&ab_channe)
      They steal!

      But he didn't know ...
      1. frog
        frog 9 January 2021 15: 22
        +1
        Duc it the boyars, they are so ... evil ... do not report .......
  • rocket757
    rocket757 9 January 2021 09: 32
    -3
    How to evaluate what is written ???
    Hope that we, the author of something does not know ??? But our management knows and takes the necessary measures !!!
    To hope that the enemy does not know something and will not be able to use what he knows ... somehow it is not necessary.
    Probably not a catastrophe AT ALL, a bias, a serious flaw ... to compensate, which is very difficult to fix, for objective and not very reasons.
    1. Bez 310
      Bez 310 9 January 2021 09: 57
      +3
      Quote: rocket757
      But our management knows and takes the necessary measures !!!

      Well, yes, yes ...
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 9 January 2021 10: 03
        -1
        The upper paths .... we do not know. Most likely we will feel it later.
        1. Sling cutter
          Sling cutter 9 January 2021 10: 06
          +9
          Quote: rocket757
          The upper paths .... we do not know. Most likely we will feel it later.

          Colleague, all their paths lead to their stolen riches, and here they are shift workers.
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 9 January 2021 10: 15
            +2
            Compradors, there are such ... the question is WHAT WE DO to change the situation for the better.
            1. Sling cutter
              Sling cutter 9 January 2021 10: 16
              +9
              Quote: rocket757
              WHAT WE DO to change the situation for the better.

              We gnaw each other on VO wassat
              1. rocket757
                rocket757 9 January 2021 10: 20
                +1
                Whistle - steam. There is a lot of noise, ZERO useful action!
                1. Sling cutter
                  Sling cutter 9 January 2021 10: 23
                  +7
                  Quote: rocket757
                  Whistle - steam. There is a lot of noise, ZERO useful action!

                  I agree, I was joking so gloomily, because here many have confused the virtual with real life. And in real life, each of us does what he can, someone more, someone less ...
                  1. rocket757
                    rocket757 9 January 2021 10: 28
                    -1
                    We work - we exist!
                    Few people can "boast" that they exist without working!
                    Even pensioners do not sit idle, with rare exceptions.
                    And if we work, everything goes into one "piggy bank", in the end.
          2. Cyril G ...
            Cyril G ... 9 January 2021 10: 23
            0
            Quote: Stroporez
            all their paths lie


            These paths were closed. From the word in general. But some of the middle-higher ones are still experiencing illusions
            1. Sling cutter
              Sling cutter 9 January 2021 10: 27
              +6
              Quote: Cyril G ...
              These paths were closed. From the word in general. But some of the middle-higher ones are still experiencing illusions

              They have two or three passports, and if anything, they do plastic surgery, in general they are evacuated to children, women, palaces and warm seas.
              1. Cyril G ...
                Cyril G ... 9 January 2021 11: 35
                +6
                Quote: Stroporez
                They have two or three passports, and if anything, they do plastic surgery, in general they are evacuated to children, women, palaces and warm seas.


                The London court made a precedent decision in the case of Berezovsky versus Abramovich - all "Young Money", that is, the money whose owners cannot prove their "honest" origin in court - are earned by criminal means this time. Secondly, the West needs a lot of money.
                1. Dart2027
                  Dart2027 9 January 2021 13: 32
                  -1
                  Quote: Cyril G ...
                  all "Young money", that is, money whose owners cannot prove their "honest" origin in court - are earned by criminal means

                  Some people still think of the theory of class struggle.
                  1. Cyril G ...
                    Cyril G ... 9 January 2021 22: 50
                    -1
                    This is an eternal question. He was and he is. Will it? It will be long. I hope not forever.
                    1. Dart2027
                      Dart2027 9 January 2021 22: 58
                      +3
                      Quote: Cyril G ...
                      This is an eternal question. He was and he is.

                      What kind of eternal is there. Communist ideology tried to fit the whole history under its theory. In fact, although the notorious class struggle exists, its influence is far from being as significant as it was taught in Soviet schools. Specifically, in this case, we are talking about the fact that our oligarchs and the oligarchs of our partners are not at all brothers-comrades, but quite the opposite, and everyone does not care about any classes.
                  2. Sling cutter
                    Sling cutter 9 January 2021 23: 19
                    +3
                    Quote: Dart2027
                    Some people still think of the theory of class struggle.

                    Listen, the class struggle has nothing to do with the opposition to theft and embezzlement.
                    Why on earth do you raise thieves into a class? What do you think is the difference between a thief who stole your wallet from a thief who stole your pension or even an entire country?
                    1. Dart2027
                      Dart2027 9 January 2021 23: 25
                      +1
                      Quote: Stroporez
                      Listen, the class struggle has nothing to do with the opposition to theft and embezzlement.

                      Quote: Stroporez
                      Colleague, all their paths lead to their stolen riches, and here they are shift workers.
                      And there they are eager to accept them into their ranks.
                      Quote: Cyril G ...
                      The London court made a precedent decision in the case of Berezovsky versus Abramovich - all the "Young Money", that is, the money whose owners cannot prove their "honest" origin in court - are earned by criminal means this time.
                      1. Sling cutter
                        Sling cutter 9 January 2021 23: 36
                        +2
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        And there they are eager to accept them into their ranks.

                        The odious will not be accepted, but now you can get a romka with Deripaska only with an ice ax. By the way, the Congress quite seriously raised the issue of returning a trillion of stolen money to the people of the Russian Federation, in the presence of a post-thief government.
                      2. Dart2027
                        Dart2027 10 January 2021 06: 55
                        +3
                        Quote: Stroporez
                        The odious will not be accepted, but now you can get a romka with Deripaska only with an ice ax.

                        Abramovich thought so too.
                        Quote: Stroporez
                        By the way, the Congress quite seriously raised the issue of returning a trillion of stolen money to the people of the Russian Federation, in the presence of a post-thief government.

                        And then there is Santa Claus.
              2. rocket757
                rocket757 9 January 2021 14: 08
                +3
                It's just that money, even of a very rich person, is pf-e ..... but ASSETS, production and other resources, this is a DELICIOUS, for the sake of which the STATE can attend specifically.
        2. frog
          frog 9 January 2021 15: 23
          0
          and here they are shift workers.

          In the galleys?
          1. Sling cutter
            Sling cutter 9 January 2021 23: 26
            +2
            Quote: frog
            In the galleys?

            Nah, now they are bunker and they have suits from bryony and watches at the cost of the annual budget of the regional center, and galley slaves are inhabitants who can be beaten with sticks and licked.
            1. frog
              frog 10 January 2021 11: 35
              +1
              Why are you so, colleague? The inhabitants got drunk vodyary - and ffse. And they are constantly thinking about their homeland and, in general, in thoughts ...
  • mik193
    mik193 9 January 2021 09: 50
    +12
    Sometimes you ask yourself a question: is it generally possible to get out of this swamp? The admirals cheerfully report, trembling for their seats, the industry led by "effective managers" is driving blatant hack, wanting to cut a bigger dough for another wretched product "unparalleled in the world", urya patriots cheerfully croak, inspired by colorful pictures from the TV. In short, congratulations on your urgent ass dive.
    PS Isn't it time to wake up?
    1. mark2
      mark2 9 January 2021 11: 13
      -1
      And what will change with criticism when the ships that Klimov needs go into the fleet? How will you check that? Again refer to the "authoritative" opinion of the major from the fleet?
      I understand all the feelings and worries of the "patriotic" critics of the existing order of affairs. They are just afraid. They are afraid that they themselves will have to fight.
      I want to calm you down. Everyone will have to fight all the same: both critics and hurray-patriots. Nobody can sit out. Modern technology is so complicated that neither we nor anyone else will be able to produce it like cakes. It takes years to build. Why would anyone think that the enemy's industry will be able to do this faster, or ours will suddenly start working faster?
      So there will be minesweepers or not, there will be a torpedo or not. All this at the first stage of the war, so that the country would have time to mobilize the reserve. By the time the mobilization ends, everything that is now swimming, walking and rolling will have already been destroyed. And this is if you fight with conventional forces. other means of warfare, it may not come to mobilization.
      Opinions about critics are as follows: they want the Russian Federation to have a strong fleet, army, aviation and so on, so that those who are "lucky" are in the ranks at that time would enter and win the war. The critics themselves do not see themselves in the role of combat units, but they definitely see themselves in the role of forum analysts with a can of beer and chips.
      In the article, I liked the author's references to his own authoritative opinion. And especially cool was the statement from patriotic officers with highlighted paragraphs, which was written by the author himself and not even signed by him. Most likely it wasn't even sent out.
      Propaganda is propaganda.
      1. Runway
        Runway 9 January 2021 12: 31
        +5
        Mobilization work begins long before the start of post-fire events and ends for two reasons:
        And we....
        B) Us ....
        Peacetime army readiness - to create conditions for "A".
      2. Vladimir1155
        Vladimir1155 9 January 2021 14: 16
        0
        Quote: mark2
        All this at the first stage of the war, so that the country would have time to mobilize the reserve. By the time the mobilization ends, everything that is now swimming, walking and rolling will have already been destroyed.

        strange statement ... did you think well? and how will you arm the mobilized population with crossbows with hoes scythe? ..... you want peace, prepare for war, that is, prepare nuclear submarine missiles and ensure their combat stability. For example, NATO wants to bomb Severomorsk or Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky .... and there are C 400, Torah, Buki, Pantsiri. Interceptor planes take off, BU 200 PLO destroy enemy submarines. PLO ships and minesweepers ply the water area under the cover of coastal aviation and at the behest of underwater tracking systems ... and then the enemy will not bomb these bases! and all this is real by the forces of the AVAILABLE already in the presence of the fleet, if you do, and not cut Then the enemy will not be able to attack because he will receive such a response that he will not be well
      3. mik193
        mik193 9 January 2021 14: 43
        +5
        It seems to me that it is the officers who are not of the highest ranks, but who served in the ship's personnel and who directly worked with weapons and equipment - they most clearly understand what is needed in the navy.
        1. timokhin-aa
          9 January 2021 18: 18
          -2
          And when there is a Big Purge, it is from their composition that the cadres will be taken. But the Navy itself, most likely, will not master this, this is the level of the VGK.
        2. ccsr
          ccsr 9 January 2021 18: 29
          +1
          Quote: mik193
          It seems to me that it is the officers who are not of the highest ranks, but who served in the ship's personnel and who directly worked with weapons and equipment - they most clearly understand what is needed in the navy.

          In this case, it is best to listen to the words of the great naval commander:
          The breadth of the horizon is determined by the height of the beholder's eye. Admiral S.O. MAKAROV.

          So think about where the "eye" of the author of the article was, and what he could see from there in order to understand what tasks are facing the MODERN fleet, and not the one on which he served.
          Any current senior officer of the GOU GSH understands the tasks of the modern fleet much better, and unlike the author of the article, he is unlikely to go to teach the current naval commanders what weapons they need for nuclear submarines, because he thinks in completely different categories. And the fleet, including the submarine, unfortunately, has too big problems to make it the main type of our military power. This is the main thing when assigning certain tasks to our nuclear submarines, and not that someone wants to better arm our submarine missile carriers. From this, they will proceed when adopting the next weapons program, and not from the wishes of such figures as the author of the article or his admirer Timokhin.
          1. timokhin-aa
            9 January 2021 20: 16
            -1
            From this and will proceed when adopting the next weapons program


            You write as if you understand something in this.
            1. FIN
              FIN 10 January 2021 06: 04
              -2
              Yes, he is an expert in everything. From aircraft carrier coordinates to economy.
              This is even worse than Andryusha the operator.
              They read all sorts of nonsense on the net, then they drag it here ... but VUSovka has not been "voiced" in two years. )))
              1. ccsr
                ccsr 10 January 2021 12: 14
                +1
                Quote: FIN
                and VUSovka his so for two years and did not "sound". )))

                Has the Ukrainian "specialist" appeared again? Not tired of changing nicknames, "teacher"?
                1. FIN
                  FIN 10 January 2021 12: 20
                  -3
                  And I? There is Guk Kirill, who knocks on me to admins. They ban me, and I write again.)))

                  And what about VUSovka? Ensign? )))
                  1. ccsr
                    ccsr 10 January 2021 13: 42
                    0
                    Quote: FIN
                    And I? There is Guk Kirill, who knocks on me to admins. They ban me, and I write again.)))

                    So maybe you are an agent of the SBU and are working here to identify persons prone to treason, judging by the active change of nicknames?
                    Quote: FIN
                    And what about VUSovka?

                    You haven't heard of this. And it is hardly interesting for your office, because I have long been retired.
                    1. FIN
                      FIN 10 January 2021 14: 09
                      -2
                      Why should I hear? There is a list on the net.
                      As they say, "The drain is counted."
                      Do you remember what nickname I gave you? Who is on duty? )))
                      1. ccsr
                        ccsr 10 January 2021 14: 33
                        +1
                        Quote: FIN
                        Do you remember what nickname I gave you?

                        No, I don’t remember under what nicknames you performed here, Semyonov. But you burn further, apparently teaching does not bring any money at all, since I started working for the SBU. You can keep asking stupid questions, since you get paid extra for it.
            2. ccsr
              ccsr 10 January 2021 12: 10
              -1
              Quote: timokhin-aa
              You write as if you understand something in this.

              Unlike you, I understand this, because I was closely involved in my section of the weapons program. And you can continue to puff out your cheeks, just keep in mind, professionals will immediately understand you and laugh at your fantasies - you cannot get basic training on the Internet, and you cannot do without practice, and this is a fact.
              1. FIN
                FIN 10 January 2021 12: 23
                -2
                Yes, they figured it out for a long time ... either he was at the Western Group of Forces, then at the embassy, ​​then he receives intelligence reports on aircraft carriers with coordinates ...
                Messages to read, straight mnogostanochnik.
                1. ccsr
                  ccsr 10 January 2021 13: 49
                  +1
                  Quote: FIN
                  ... then he is in ZGV,

                  Almost five years - this was the only time when I moved from a higher structure to a lower one.
                  Quote: FIN
                  then at the embassy,

                  Don’t whistle, SBU agent, I didn’t write this, so I won’t use drugs, don’t attribute to me what I didn’t tell you.
                  Quote: FIN
                  then reconnaissance on aircraft carriers receives coordinates.

                  There were no aircraft carriers in the Baltic Sea at that time, so no la-la. And those who entered the North Sea were definitely reported. You have a rich imagination, apparently against the background of independence - do you by any chance work as Gritsenko's assistants?
                  Quote: FIN
                  Messages to read, straight mnogostanochnik.

                  More literate people like you, that's for sure ...
                  1. Fizik M
                    Fizik M 15 January 2021 19: 14
                    0
                    Quote: ccsr
                    Almost five years - this was the only time when I moved from a higher structure to a lower one.

                    from the food warehouse down the hill to the dining room? lol
                    Quote: ccsr
                    And those who entered the North Sea were definitely reported.

                    warrant officers with pYvYO and Khry
                    FOR CUCUMBER
                    "in secret" lol
              2. Fizik M
                Fizik M 15 January 2021 19: 17
                0
                Quote: ccsr
                closely engaged in his section of the weapons program

                stew?
                footcloths?
                Quote: ccsr
                professionals will immediately understand you

                warrant officer (xRu-xRU-xRU), with his nonsense and nonsense - he took off his pants lol
                hRU-hRU-hRU-MMMM laughing
          2. mik193
            mik193 10 January 2021 10: 59
            +1
            The General Staff officer may understand global tasks better, but he really thinks in other categories. In fact, he does not know the real effectiveness of the complex or system. What was given out on paper is guided by that. This can only be known by a person who directly works with technology.
            It is not necessary to make the navy the main type of military power. It is necessary that he clearly perform a certain range of tasks, and for this we need normal equipment and weapons.
            1. FIN
              FIN 10 January 2021 11: 07
              -1
              How did he get into the General Staff? Where did you serve? By pull?
              I did not rise above the headquarters of the fleet, but this does not interfere (creaking with brains) to advise people involved in the Be-12 and Il-38 simulators. I still remember something.
              As BEZ-310 wrote about such. A lieutenant colonel with third class.
            2. ccsr
              ccsr 10 January 2021 12: 25
              0
              Quote: mik193
              The General Staff officer may have a better understanding of global tasks, but he really thinks in other categories.

              Naturally, he must first of all take into account all the factors and advantages of different weapons systems in order to achieve the maximum probability of destroying the enemy with the first strike - this is the situation in our confrontation with the United States.
              Quote: mik193
              In fact, he does not know the real effectiveness of the complex or system.

              You argue like all ordinary people, and I will not even analyze in detail the merits of certain strategic nuclear forces systems that are known in the General Staff. The only thing that you need to at least understand is that the Strategic Missile Forces are the only type of armed forces of the triad whose control system is not intercepted by the Americans and is not subject to the actions of their electronic warfare means. And the Americans cannot understand the state of our Strategic Missile Forces duty forces, and in how many minutes the missiles will fly from the mines, due to the lack of indirect signs to determine this. Only because of this, all dancing around the fleet must be stopped - we just need to competently approach the systematic assessment of our strategic nuclear forces, and choose what will cost us cheaper. By the way, the author of the article correctly evaluates the fleet as an auxiliary structure for the Strategic Missile Forces, i.e. he understands everything perfectly, but he will eat up a bald spot about torpedoes.
              1. Fizik M
                Fizik M 15 January 2021 19: 09
                0
                Quote: ccsr
                I will not even go into detail about the merits of these or those strategic nuclear forces that are known in the General Staff.

                sort it out wassat
                neighing
                I promise not to kick with my feet
          3. Fizik M
            Fizik M 15 January 2021 19: 36
            0
            Quote: ccsr
            So think about where the "eye" of the author of the article was, and what he could see from there

            FACE ABOUT TABLE:

            Quote: ccsr
            Any current senior officer of the GOU GSh understands the tasks of the modern fleet much better.

            are you talking about the one who LIED in the AP that we have YAKOBY "held" ice shooting?
            ensign, and I will grieve you - they know me at GOU GS
            thank you for something - on the "green theme" (more precisely - "sand")
            1. ccsr
              ccsr 15 January 2021 20: 09
              -1
              Quote: Fizik M
              FACE ABOUT TABLE:

              Some naval officers are just like clowns, they could not figure out even a simple answer to Klimov's personal initiative, but they mark everything as a "strategist" with their quirks.
              Firstly, such answers, if they are really interesting and relevant, are not written in open form, but sent in stamped form.
              Secondly, the word "reviewed" (the first paragraph) does not at all reflect that any actions will be taken on them - this is a typical turnover for unsubscribing for various annoying applicants.
              The second paragraph is just an excuse in the form of a set of words from which nothing follows, but warms the souls of the applicants.
              The third paragraph is praise for the commander of the formation, and Klimov does not dance here, from the word at all.
              The fourth point is an excellent example for those who understand the essence of such formal replies - they do not even insist on the obligatory sending of the applicant to the academy, but only consider it "appropriate to CONSIDER Klimov's candidacy." Based on this, it becomes clear that the Chief of the Main Directorate of the General Staff of the Navy refuses to participate in the fate of Klimov, leaving everything to the discretion of the local commander, including sending him to study. And this best of all suggests that the chief of the OU Klimov and his ideas are not at all interested, otherwise he would have been called officially to the OU General Staff of the Navy.
              The fifth point best of all suggests that in order not to store garbage in the General Staff of the Navy, in order not to store garbage, they simply threw it into 24 institutes, where these papers will be registered, and then at the end of the year they will be sewn up or simply destroyed according to the results of the work of the annual inspection commission office work.
              That's all there is to know about this answer.
              But since there are often such unique people in the fleet that they can make an elephant out of a fly, I am not surprised why another verbiage decided to wave this meaningless scribble.
              Burn on the "expert" of the fleet, and remember that about people like you there has long been a saying - "a hare is not a sailor, there will be no chattering ...".
              In general, the ears are flared, and they are not dusty on the parquet, you are too funny with your letter, which once again showed how those who know how to understand them correctly laugh at you.
              1. Fizik M
                Fizik M 15 January 2021 20: 56
                0
                Quote: ccsr
                Some naval officers are just like clowns, they could not figure out even a simple answer to Klimov's personal initiative,

                clown here you are, "cork" ensign from hRU-hRU-hRU-MMMM
                Quote: ccsr
                Firstly, such answers, if they are really interesting and relevant, are not written in open form, but sent in stamped form.

                bunny, you are just too stupid and did not see anything real
                firstly, everything is clear from the numbers to the competent reader
                secondly, the stamped answers were also
                Quote: ccsr
                The fifth point best of all suggests that in order not to store garbage in the General Staff of the Navy, in order not to store garbage, they simply threw it into the 24th Institute

                he says you're just a stupid ensign who has no idea what the Central Research Institute of OSIS is
                1. ccsr
                  ccsr 15 January 2021 21: 11
                  -1
                  Quote: Fizik M
                  firstly, everything is clear from the numbers to the competent reader

                  Relax, verbiage, numbers are assigned to all correspondence. And the answer is not to the applicant himself, to his boss, which already says everything.
                  Quote: Fizik M
                  secondly, the stamped answers were also

                  Well, why did not the author enter the academy and was not invited to serve at the educational institution?
                  Quote: Fizik M
                  having no idea what the Central Research Institute of OSIS is

                  It was just a specific Central Research Institute, there were such in every type and type of troops, so blow off your cheeks, verbiage:
                  The main customer of the Institute's products is the Main Headquarters of the Navy, to the head of which the Institute is directly subordinate.

                  Moreover, in 2009, his status was also downgraded, having been removed from the central subordination:
                  In 2009, the Institute became part of the Military Educational and Scientific Center of the Russian Navy “Naval Academy named after Admiral of the Fleet of the Soviet Union NG Kuznetsov ".

                  When will you finish demonstrating your incompetence, "marine painter" on general issues?
                  1. Fizik M
                    Fizik M 15 January 2021 21: 29
                    -1
                    Quote: ccsr
                    numbers are assigned to all correspondence

                    lol
                    prapor, you are so STUPID that you didn't even understand what it was about laughing
                    Quote: ccsr
                    and why the author did not enter the academy and was not invited to serve at the educational institution?

                    and who are you that I would answer such questions? another "daughter of Lieutenant Schmidt"?
                    Quote: ccsr
                    Moreover, in 2009 his status was also downgraded, being removed from the central subordination

                    wassat
                    warrant officer, he was NEVER centrally subordinate and was not

                    PS Ensign, I have one question - have you ever flown on Mars (yet)? lol
                    1. ccsr
                      ccsr 15 January 2021 21: 41
                      -1
                      Quote: Fizik M
                      warrant officer, he was NEVER centrally subordinate and was not

                      What a misery, you don't even know what kind of office it was:
                      Thus, since 1961, the range of tasks assigned to the institute has been constantly expanding. Since 1969, the institute has become the leading institute in the Navy in the field of substantiating the development directions and programs of the fleet's armament, automating the control of its forces, modeling and developing special software for automated control systems. At the suggestion of the Commander-in-Chief of the Navy, the institute was transferred to the first category of research institutions of the Ministry of Defense, designing especially complex products, and since 1988 it has become the central one - 24 TsNII MO. To train scientific personnel and improve their qualifications, in 1971, a specialized council for the defense of candidate dissertations was created at the institute, and since 1976 - and doctoral dissertations. To date, more than 200 candidate and 25 doctoral dissertations have been defended in the dissertation council of the institute.

                      http://militaryarticle.ru/voennaya-mysl/2005-vm/9599-jetapy-razvitija-24-cnii-mo-rf-i-ego-rol-v
                      All the CENTRAL institutes of the Ministry of Defense were of central subordination, and here you once again demonstrated your illiteracy.
                      1. Fizik M
                        Fizik M 15 January 2021 21: 52
                        -1
                        Quote: ccsr
                        once again demonstrated illiteracy.

                        warrant officer, on subordination I will clarify (and write here)
                        but you didn’t answer about Mars (as well as "sEkrEtnh ensigns" who whisper in your ear the coordinates of amerovskih SSBNs lol
      4. Revival
        Revival 10 January 2021 01: 28
        +1
        Yeah, in your opinion this is awful:
        "The opinions about the critics are as follows: they want the Russian Federation to have a strong fleet, army, aviation and so on, so that those who are" lucky "are in the ranks at this time would enter and win the war."
        "So there will be minesweepers or not, whether there will be a torpedo or not. All this is at the first stage of the war, so that the country has time to mobilize the reserve. By the time the mobilization is over, everything that is now floating, walking and rolling will have already been destroyed." ...

        Of course, it is imperative, put them and millions of mobilized ...
        You can't break the tradition ...
        Only titanic victims, right !?
        That is, it is disgusting and bad to want to win the war, having prepared in advance and not dreaming of winning, by all means reaching the "Reichstag" as the last of every thousand !!! ??
        You are absolutely chtoli! ??
        1. timokhin-aa
          10 January 2021 12: 43
          0
          This is a psychological deformation - to cover the enemy in the port of loading with missiles is haram, you need to let him submerge, cross the ocean, turn around in a theater of operations, invade, and then you can die under the tracks, in a trench at an unnamed height. Nuili send their children there, under the caterpillars, age itself does not allow.

          Continental power. But as? Do not give up the same land and continentality.
      5. Fizik M
        Fizik M 15 January 2021 19: 41
        +1
        Quote: mark2
        And what will change with criticism when the ships that Klimov needs go into the fleet? How will you check that? Again refer to the "authoritative" opinion of the major from the fleet?

        bunny, I was not ashamed for any of my PM or TK for tests
        for these were REAL HONEST tests
        Quote: mark2
        I want to calm you down. Everyone will have to fight all the same: both critics and hurray-patriots. Nobody can sit out. Modern technology is so complicated that neither we nor anyone else will be able to produce it like cakes. It takes years to build. Why would anyone think that the enemy's industry will be able to do this faster, or ours will suddenly start working faster?
        So there will be minesweepers or not, there will be a torpedo or not. All this at the first stage of the war, so that the country would have time to mobilize the reserve. By the time the mobilization ends, everything that is now swimming, walking and rolling will have already been destroyed. And this is if you fight with conventional forces. other means of warfare, it may not come to mobilization.
        Opinions about critics are as follows: they want the Russian Federation to have a strong fleet, army, aviation and so on, so that those who are "lucky" are in the ranks at that time would enter and win the war. The critics themselves do not see themselves in the role of combat units, but they definitely see themselves in the role of forum analysts with a can of beer and chips.

        and I think that YOU are just nonsense
        with a can of beer and chips on a squeezed couch
    2. Ros 56
      Ros 56 9 January 2021 11: 41
      -4
      Do you have complete information, or so, for the catchphrase, like one woman said?
  • Soko
    Soko 9 January 2021 10: 18
    +20
    Much later, at the end of 1989, I asked him why he dismissed this question.

    Fyodor Ivanovich replied: "I know about this effect, it is impossible to protect oneself from such detection, so why upset our submariners?"

    So it is now - why tell the sailors that they will be "merged" during the fighting?
    1. Machito
      Machito 9 January 2021 12: 53
      -1
      They will simply be the first to merge, and we are always after them.
  • Rurikovich
    Rurikovich 9 January 2021 10: 30
    +12
    The article is an undeniable, undeniable, fat plus !!! Klimov has already become one of my favorite and adequate authors, who writes on the problem, because he REALLY understands it. It's not convenient to write from the phone, I'll try briefly. Gentlemen of the forum, in order for the SSBN to REALLY pose a threat to the enemy during the conflict, he must be on alert, at least undetected. To do this, he must be taken to the patrol area. For this, it is necessary to provide a set of actions that are capable of providing SSBNs with the ability to complete the task at the time of the reaction of the leadership in a conflict. To do this, you need to clear the patrol area from enemy hunter boats, close the patrol area from anti-aircraft defense aircraft. The Soviet Union realized this, and therefore began to revive the aircraft carrier component of the Navy in the form of at least some aircraft carrying ships. Ibotolku from the strategist, if, upon leaving the base, he will be guided by 2-3 submarines of enemy boats throughout the entire period and when the hatch of the mine is opened, he will automatically receive his torpedo. This is the problem, that we CANNOT ENSURE THE SECURITY OF THE HIDDEN AREA OF THE DEPLOYMENT OF OUR SSBNs! We cannot not only do this, but even the SSBNs themselves cannot provide anti-submarine weapons. Those. in the event of a war, the naval component is practically deleted from the strategic nuclear forces. Knowing where the boats are, you can easily neutralize them. That is why the author is sounding the alarm, because he knows about the problem, and the officials from the Navy, who also know about it, say that the problem "does not correspond to reality." Therefore, the media sell pictures of peaceful launches, and the reality is terrifying - we are defenseless in the seas and oceans. We are not able to ensure not only the secrecy of the SSBN, but we are even able to defend ...
    Maxim Klimov - good hi
  • Svetlana
    Svetlana 9 January 2021 11: 14
    -2
    posing a question on BZHRK

    You shouldn't do BZHRK. In view of their low combat resistance to sabotage on the railway, additional time for folding the contact network, braking the throughput of Russian Railways, the previously known coordinates of the location of the railways, poor protection from a shock wave, the ability of a potential enemy to cover the entire network of Russian Railways with unacceptable excess pressure of hydrocarbons.
    1. Ros 56
      Ros 56 9 January 2021 11: 39
      0
      And the striped ones are of a different opinion.
  • Igor Tikhomirov
    Igor Tikhomirov 9 January 2021 11: 28
    0
    The article makes a strange impression. On the one hand, criticism of existing realities. And there is no clear unambiguous conclusion.
    Meanwhile, the history of the Russian Empire and the USSR teaches us that the ocean-going fleet is not only not useful, but also harmful. Actually Russia once, in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, built a large ocean-going fleet. How it turned out is known. It is also known how the beginning of the implementation of the shipbuilding program to recreate a large fleet turned out for Russia. Shell and cartridge famine in the First World War.
    The leadership of the USSR in the 30s also followed the lead of the maritime lobby, starting the construction of a large fleet, but thought better of it in time, curtailing the construction of large ships in 1939. In the Second World War, the USSR did not have new battleships, but there were tanks, guns with shells for them and with small arms were all right. And the fleet was subordinate to the land command.
    Why not take this path now?
    1. Comrade I
      Comrade I 9 January 2021 12: 24
      +7
      And who is talking about the "big ocean fleet"? This article is about a purely defensive potential. And that even within the framework of the existing passive doctrine, we do not have enough strength either in quantitative or qualitative terms.
      1. Vladimir1155
        Vladimir1155 9 January 2021 14: 06
        -1
        Quote: Comrade Y
        who is talking about the "big ocean fleet"? This article is about a purely defensive potential.

        exactly! here I am against a large ocean-going fleet, but SSBNs require MANDATORY comprehensive support of combat stability ... by the way, troops often pass through my village, I think that moving Iskanders, from 400 and so on with one driver and under the protection of one VAI vehicle, often even without technical closure = crime
    2. Dart2027
      Dart2027 9 January 2021 13: 34
      +3
      Quote: Igor Tikhomirov
      Actually Russia once, in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, built a large ocean-going fleet. How it turned out is known.

      The fact that our partners really wanted to destroy it.
      Quote: Igor Tikhomirov
      It is also known how the beginning of the implementation of the shipbuilding program to recreate a large fleet turned out for Russia. Shell and cartridge famine in the First World War.

      This famine was due to the fact that no one thought that the war would last more than a few months.
      Quote: Igor Tikhomirov
      but changed his mind in time, curtailing the construction of large ships in 1939

      Because I couldn't build them, physically.
    3. timokhin-aa
      9 January 2021 14: 19
      +3
      Meanwhile, the history of the Russian Empire and the USSR teaches us


      The history of the USSR teaches us that all nuclear deterrence from 1960 to 1973 for about years hung on the Navy.
      And that's just one example.
      History teaches us that at the Bear Spear 2014 exercise, where the Americans were practicing a sudden disarming nuclear strike on the Russian Federation, they were not allowed to dry two SSBNs that were not fired by accident (of all available).
      History also teaches us that among us there are unteachable characters, alas ...
      1. ccsr
        ccsr 9 January 2021 18: 37
        +3
        Quote: timokhin-aa
        The history of the USSR teaches us that all nuclear deterrence from 1960 to 1973 for about years hung on the Navy.

        Our Civil Cavalry Army was a decisive striking force, so should we again start designing titanium horseshoes? Yes, there was a time when we did not have enough missiles to destroy the entire territory of the United States, now they are enough. Why then expand the fleet, which is already the most costly in our triad and, moreover, the most vulnerable, and even poorly managed due to the enemy's electronic warfare?
        Quote: timokhin-aa
        History teaches us that at the Bear Spear 2014 exercise, where the Americans were practicing a sudden disarming nuclear strike on the Russian Federation, they were not allowed to dry two SSBNs that were not fired by accident (of all available).

        Stop fantasizing, because the "surprise strike" is a figment of your imagination, indicating that you have no idea what scenario the Americans will use in a future war. By the way, your mythical "surprise strike" against which objects of the Russian Federation will you be directed?
        Quote: timokhin-aa
        History also teaches us that among us there are unteachable characters, alas ...

        And there are dreamers on military topics, and they bring even more harm to our people, because with their amateurish reasoning they powder the brains of an inexperienced public.
        1. timokhin-aa
          9 January 2021 20: 14
          0
          Stop fantasizing, because the "surprise strike" is a figment of your imagination, indicating that you have no idea what scenario the Americans will use in a future war.


          This is one of the options that they are working on and for which they are preparing their IUDs.

          By the way, your mythical "surprise strike" against which objects of the Russian Federation will you be directed


          Write to the Pentagon, ensign.
          1. ccsr
            ccsr 10 January 2021 12: 05
            -2
            Quote: timokhin-aa
            This is one of the options that they are working on and for which they are preparing their IUDs.

            Enough with the verbiage "writer", it is better to describe specifically how you imagine it. Then people will understand that you are up to the "ensign", as to the moon on foot ...
            1. Fizik M
              Fizik M 15 January 2021 19: 02
              0
              Quote: ccsr
              better describe specifically how you imagine it

              Prapor, do you really think that Timokhin or I will paint on an open source how best to beat us? (beyond what the enemy already knows)
        2. Fizik M
          Fizik M 15 January 2021 19: 06
          0
          Quote: ccsr
          enemy electronic warfare means

          YOU are a warrant officer about this only can smack nonsense
          Quote: ccsr
          because the "sudden blow" is a figment of your imagination,

          well, you were the ensign
          because all the COMBAT UNITS in the USSR worked out the way out of it
          with very strict regulations
          and you at this time, apparently, turned the tushnya in the warehouse lol
      2. Soko
        Soko 9 January 2021 23: 20
        +19
        Quote: timokhin-aa
        there are unteachable characters among us, alas

        This is yes. Someone even paraphrased the well-known expression: "Russia has one problem - fools are dear to it"
  • Ros 56
    Ros 56 9 January 2021 11: 38
    -3
    What's the point in discussing such things here on VO. This should be discussed at the headquarters of the Navy, in special publications, in the Ministry of Defense and in the government, finally. You can, if you wish, reach the president, and here we will not do anything except exchange of views without full information.
    1. ccsr
      ccsr 9 January 2021 18: 46
      0
      Quote: Ros 56
      What's the point in discussing such things here on VO. This should be discussed at the headquarters of the Navy, in special publications, in the Ministry of Defense and in the government, finally. You can, if you wish, reach the president, and here we will not do anything except exchange of views without full information.

      Some leaders are pleased to feel that they are much smarter than all the active military, and that someone is supposedly starting to listen to their words. How good that the author of the article only wrote a report to the minister, and in Soviet times he would have concocted a scribble in the Central Committee, and then wrote another letter to the congress, where he would have outlined his "ideas." From those who write here, no one can imagine what kind of punishment it was in Soviet times for officers of the Ministry of Defense to respond to letters from such advanced citizens - it was something that shook many heads of even the main directorates. I'm not talking about all the offended and other inadequate authors, but the letters to the congress were written by just crazy people, and they had to be answered in the Central Committee. Hardly anyone knows what it is, but I was familiar with it ...
      1. Fizik M
        Fizik M 15 January 2021 18: 59
        0
        Quote: ccsr
        Some politicians are pleased to feel that they are much smarter than all the active military, and that someone is supposedly starting to listen to their words. It's so good that the author of the article only wrote a report to the minister, and in Soviet times he would have concocted a scribble in the Central Committee, and then wrote another letter to the congress, where he would set out his "ideas"

        ensign, do not read - do not torture your scanty little mind
        command the cooks - this is your "level" wassat
  • ccsr
    ccsr 9 January 2021 12: 54
    +7
    Author:
    Maxim Klimov
    The quantitative basis of our strategic nuclear forces should be precisely the Strategic Missile Forces. And the role of NSNF is a necessary but auxiliary mechanism of strategic deterrence.

    This conclusion of the author of the article is the most valuable in his work, and I completely agree with this conclusion. We can add to this that the same applies to our third component - strategic aviation, which is essentially auxiliary in relation to our Strategic Missile Forces.
    All the rest of the author's theoretical research, including ten-year-old references to some admirals, and I am in doubt, but let the naval ones intelligibly discuss this themselves here, whether the absence of new torpedoes or mines is so tragic for us.
    To the author, since he never served in the structures of general customers, I recommend to remember that 3-5 years for the fleet is nothing at all, because even in the simpler military R&D of the Soviet period, a period of 4 years was considered quite acceptable. This is the starting point when you criticize the current timing of developments.
    1. Soko
      Soko 9 January 2021 23: 12
      +15
      Quote: ccsr
      This conclusion of the author of the article is the most valuable in his work, and I completely agree with this conclusion.

      Yes, this is also suggested by logic: we have the largest territory, which means that strategic nuclear forces should be distributed over it. The Yankees are in charge of the ocean - therefore, the base of the strategic nuclear forces is placed on boats.
    2. Fizik M
      Fizik M 15 January 2021 18: 56
      0
      Quote: ccsr
      All the rest of the author's theoretical research, including ten-year-old references to some admirals, and I am in doubt, but let the naval ones intelligibly discuss this themselves here, whether the absence of new torpedoes or mines is so tragic for us.

      warrant officer, YOUR "doubts" of the level "just steal a box of stew or take a UAZ car" lol
      Quote: ccsr
      To the author, since he never served in the structures of general customers

      where I served - I'm not going to report to "cork" ensigns
      Quote: ccsr
      I recommend to remember

      ensign, "recommend" you to the cook in the dining room - this is your "level" wassat
      Quote: ccsr
      even in the simpler military R&D of the Soviet period, a period of 4 years was considered quite acceptable

      Well, ensign, you took off your PANTS with this ACHINEA lol
  • demiurg
    demiurg 9 January 2021 12: 55
    -1
    Klimov, didn’t you suffer on all the resources that Bulava is not allowed from the Pacific Fleet (or is it your alter ego, Timoshkin)? At the same time, meaningfully hinting that they can never?
    Launched from the Pacific Fleet Bulava, I still don't like it. And expensive and not as you wanted.
    Now you don't like the Boreyev basing at the Pacific Fleet. Where to move them until the issue with the PLO is resolved?
    1. From Tomsk
      From Tomsk 9 January 2021 13: 32
      -3
      PFF)). Klimov wrote on VO and other resources of the article that Bulava can only fly from west to east, but cannot fly from east to west.
      1. Cyril G ...
        Cyril G ... 9 January 2021 14: 34
        +6
        This was not the case. The question was raised exclusively in the plane of why there is no firing from the Kamchatka SSBNs.
      2. timokhin-aa
        9 January 2021 18: 18
        0
        I didn’t write, I just joked that once.
      3. Fizik M
        Fizik M 15 January 2021 15: 04
        0
        Quote: From Tomsk
        Klimov wrote on VO and other resources of the article that Bulava can only fly from west to east, but cannot fly from east to west.

        fool
        Monsieur, YOU on this one Nonsense at least one link to lead?
    2. Vladimir1155
      Vladimir1155 9 January 2021 14: 02
      -1
      Quote: demiurg
      Where to move them until the issue with the PLO is resolved?

      it is clear that on the Northern Fleet ... but I believe that they do not need to be moved, they need to be given PLO strength and they are only not where they are needed ... are smeared over the warm seas
    3. timokhin-aa
      9 January 2021 14: 20
      0
      No, citizen is cheap, it wasn't him. These were your voices in your head.
    4. Ivan_Ivanov
      Ivan_Ivanov 9 January 2021 15: 13
      -4
      Very comfortable position of the author. If there are jingoistic patriots for whom everything that has been done is wonderful, and what has not been done is not necessary. That is to say, all the scatters. For these, if something is not done, they shout "guard, everything is lost, we can do nothing, just ... if all the polymers." And when we do something, they convince others that we did the wrong thing.
      1. Fizik M
        Fizik M 15 January 2021 16: 29
        0
        Quote: Ivan_Ivanov
        If there are jingoistic patriots for whom everything that has been done is wonderful, and what has not been done is not necessary. That is, all the scattered

        hike YOU have the whole world in black and white pixels wassat
        I sympathize
        lol
    5. Fizik M
      Fizik M 15 January 2021 16: 27
      0
      Quote: demiurg
      At the same time, meaningfully hinting that they can never?

      monsieur, you are raving
      Written by mina030 (mina030)
      2020-03-17 17:23:00
      https://topwar.ru/178779-borej-bulava-zalp-ushel-no-tjazhelye-voprosy-ostalis.html
      Taking into account the "wild" and unacceptable situation of such a long break in the practical missile firing of missile submarines of the strategic forces of the Navy's combat staff, it is very likely that it will be completed in 2020. At least one Bulava rocket fire from the Pacific Fleet (against the Chizha battlefield).
      This is certainly very positive, and it is highly likely that this shooting will be successful (given its importance and the appropriate support from the industry).

      Quote: demiurg
      Launched from the Pacific Fleet Bulava, I still don't like it. And expensive and not as you wanted.

      no need to misinterpret my words
  • iouris
    iouris 9 January 2021 13: 14
    0
    The sailors have no questions. And it shouldn't be. All hands on deck!
  • bk0010
    bk0010 9 January 2021 13: 45
    +1
    I have a question about the repeatedly shown picture with low-frequency illumination: active headphones have been around for many years, what is the problem to make a means for suppressing low-frequency illumination on the same principles?
    1. timokhin-aa
      9 January 2021 18: 20
      +1
      The whole boat resonates. In a very low range. What you write is active noise cancellation, it is.
    2. Fizik M
      Fizik M 15 January 2021 16: 31
      0
      Quote: bk0010
      I have a question about the repeatedly shown picture with low-frequency illumination: active headphones have been around for many years, what is the problem to make a means for suppressing low-frequency illumination on the same principles?

      fully - physically impossible
      defective - read gov purchases
      but I will refrain from commenting on them
  • Vladimir1155
    Vladimir1155 9 January 2021 13: 59
    +1
    I support the respected Maksim Klimov, I will add, the development of new torpedoes, mine action vehicles, and minesweepers, by the way, is not so expensive compared to the UDC, Kuzey and even a frigate, and it is very necessary, which is obvious .... the question is why it has not been done? here you can cut a little or is it a direct betrayal in the General Staff of the Navy? The transfer of all 1st and 2nd rank ships to Kamchatka and the Northern Fleet is not too high in terms of expenditures, then at least they covered the water area by means of 1155 1164 11356 20380, etc. I consider ignoring the security of nuclear submarines and their bases not a mistake, but a serious crime ...
    1. Scharnhorst
      Scharnhorst 9 January 2021 16: 34
      +2
      From me "+"! And consider my signature in your comment! hi
    2. Runway
      Runway 10 January 2021 01: 23
      +1
      Can't you admit that on the eve of a special period the Pacific Fleet's steamers will not be deployed “for support” (as well as the steamers of the “partners”)?
      BMTO deployments pl (that RPKSN, that mts) Yes, you need to "reach" the level of "feasible" from the level of "military ingenuity".
      1. Vladimir1155
        Vladimir1155 10 January 2021 19: 46
        -1
        perhaps there are plans for deployment ... but how long does it take to transfer large ships from the Black Sea Fleet and Baltic Fleet to the Northern Fleet? and if this is done in a threatened period past the sworn enemies of all NATO countries through narrow straits! By the way, even on the way to Tsushima, the fleet skirted England far for fear of provocation ... if there are such plans, then this is a filkin letter to protect the bureaucratic s ..... in stripes. The army and navy should be in places where they are needed and or where they can move without control from third countries, for example, if you equip the BF and the Northern Fleet and Kfl with ships of the third rank, then they can move through the GDP.
        1. Runway
          Runway 11 January 2021 01: 10
          0
          The steamers of the Black Sea Fleet and the Baltic Fleet are needed in their places. We are talking about the deployment of funds in the theater of operations (within the association).
  • certero
    certero 9 January 2021 14: 25
    -6
    I absolutely do not understand all these torpedoes, so I cannot comment. But what I absolutely agree with is that ground-based missiles should form the basis of our nuclear missile forces. Submarines were once needed to send a missile to the enemy. Now boats can shoot straight from the pier.
    1. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa 9 January 2021 22: 28
      +6
      Quote: certero
      Submarines were once needed to send a missile to the enemy.

      Pancake! It is difficult to talk to the deaf and not very thinking ...
      Ground forces (silos, PGRK) are visible, their place is known, and it is possible to inflict "counterforce RNU" on them. But the APRK SN, in order to destroy it, must still be found in the vast expanses of the World Ocean. The firing bearing of the Strategic Missile Forces products is known (sector!), Where all means of early warning and missile defense systems look. But from where the SSBN will deliver its blow - it needs to be very tense to cover all sectors ... It is very difficult to reflect a dagger strike in the belly due to the lack of swing and the small distance (time) of the blade following to the solar plexus ... launching SLBMs from 1000 km ... and even on flat ballistics ... It's not 30 minutes for you to collect when launching from near Kozelsk ...
      Therefore, dear, boats are still needed today so that obscene thoughts about impunity for "disarming strikes" on our country do not fly into the attic of the inhabitants of the Pale House ...
      Quote: certero
      Now boats can shoot straight from the pier.

      They can, but we do not need one more battery melt silo. We need a "situation of uncertainty" with an unpredictable outcome at time "H" on day "D". And so far no one can cope with this task better than the untracked APRK SN ...
      1. certero
        certero 10 January 2021 00: 37
        -2
        How many boats do we have constantly at sea on alert? How many of them are not tracked by the enemy in real time? Now answer these questions and you will understand that nuclear cruisers are just a relic of the time when missiles did not reach America.
        And if, for example, the SNV-3 agreement is covered with a furry animal, then it generally becomes simple. It is possible to place atomic weapons in inland waters where it will not be so easy to track them. and instead of nuclear missile carriers it is better to build multipurpose nuclear submarines, which our fleet lacks so much and surface ships.
        1. FIN
          FIN 10 January 2021 10: 37
          +2
          )))
          Not at all. They stand in the bays.
          We tried to place it in Okhotsk too .... They found it out and watched the entire BS.

          K-171 Project 667 B 1985 (July-October). Performed BS in the Hawaiian Islands. Multipurpose PLA pr.671 provided it. Revealed tracking throughout the BS. It didn't work out. After that, the region of the Sea of ​​Okhotsk was "cut" for the BS (this was after the K-219 Britanov accident). 1987-88 (from December 14 to March 3) BS in the region of the Sea of ​​Okhotsk. 8.01.88/142/49.20 check of the absence of tracking of the Tu-153.40 in the Sea of ​​Okhotsk - positive (1.02.1988. 142) .... After confirming the tracking of it, measures to take off. It does not work .... 50.30 check of the absence of tracking of Tu-153.15 in the Sea of ​​Okhotsk - positive (17.02.1988 142). It is taken out into the oceanic zone, but already there on 50.00/156.50/XNUMX the check of the absence of tracking during the return of the Tu-XNUMX is positive (XNUMX XNUMX).

          K-446 Project 667 AU BS December 22, 1986 - March 2, 1987 Kuriles. Checking the absence of tracking of the Il-38 on 26.12.86 (46.50 153.25) -positive.

          K-252 Project 667 AU 19 August 1984 Kuril Islands. Checking the absence of tracking Tu-142 (47.10 153.00) -positive.

          K-451 Project 667 AU March 7, 1984 Kuril Islands. Checking the absence of tracking Be-12 (49.03 156.25) - positive.

          K-451 Project 667 AU September 17, 1984 Kuril Islands. Checking the absence of tracking Be-12 (50.20 156.55) - positive.
          1. Boa kaa
            Boa kaa 10 January 2021 15: 41
            0
            Quote: FIN
            Detected at the exit and followed the entire BS.

            Colleague, is it okay that you write about the second generation of PLA, which were detected even by a stationary SOSUS for hundreds of miles !?
            But the amy patted the passage 955 to Vilyuchinsk and did not track it, as before. Why? Yes, because its noise level on the MX is 5 times (!) Lower than that of the 971 project (by the way, it is also not a frail car). Of course there are problems, but not as fatal as you wrote to us from your official archive.
            Yours faithfully, hi
            1. FIN
              FIN 11 January 2021 08: 58
              -1
              My comment was deleted. About a Japanese boat in Avacha, Tankovid's unsuccessful exit and his removal from office. I put everything there. Where and how.
              And why did you decide that I put ALL the information I have in my tracking post?
              During a volley in Okhotsk in December, an IPL was detected. I followed the launch. Found already THERE. Obviously, the tail went from Vilyuchinsk behind the SSBN.
              Tankovid's transition from the Northern Fleet was not hidden. Think for yourself how to COVERLY overcome the Bering Strait? Previously, such transfers were announced from the United States. As well as shooting, as well as control checks (it seems up to 5 times a year). Like the Russian Federation, the United States controls.
              But with the nailing of SALT, RIAC, Open Sky, it is not clear how the notification goes ...
              Do Boreas go only to MX? Did the US Navy stay at the 80s level?
              The problems are not fatal. But the Boreys have been in Vilyuchinsk without getting out since 2015.
              I posted about the notification time limit 7-10 minutes earlier.
              They are kept in the database for this very reason.
              We discussed 971 a long time ago at Balancer. Not interesting already. Everyone understands everything.
              1. FIN
                FIN 11 January 2021 09: 58
                +1
                I forgot.
                I dragged everything here.
                With regard to the topic of discussion - "Clean exit and Dirty boat". 2 parts
                https://valcat-8.livejournal.com/38342.html
                https://valcat-8.livejournal.com/38645.html
                150 articles with comments. Reading is tortured.
              2. Fizik M
                Fizik M 15 January 2021 18: 47
                0
                Quote: FIN
                We discussed 971 a long time ago at Balancer. Not interesting already. Everyone understands everything.

                Ilyusha Kurganov as a "source" is not even bad manners, but just a PUMP
                "purely for reference" - "Ritsa-2000" did not go beyond the limit of pieces of paper
            2. The comment was deleted.
            3. Fizik M
              Fizik M 15 January 2021 16: 36
              0
              Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
              But the amy patted the passage 955 to Vilyuchinsk and did not track it, as before

              lol
              it's not even funny (because the transition was OFFICIALLY unhidden)
              but just a childish LIE Monsieur Tankovid
              Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
              why? Yes, because its noise level on the MX is 5 times (!) Lower than that of the 971 project (by the way, it is also not a frail car). Of course there are problems

              still would
              the enemy turns on the "bulbs" of the low-frequency illumination, after his 955 like a fly on the glass with all its low noise
            4. Fizik M
              Fizik M 15 January 2021 18: 48
              +1
              Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
              about the second generation of PLA, which was detected even by a stationary SOSUS for hundreds of miles !?

              MUCH more
              especially at the Pacific Fleet

              But the transition 955 to Vilyuchinsk the amy slammed

              these are Tankovid's fables
      2. ccsr
        ccsr 10 January 2021 13: 09
        +1
        Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
        Ground forces (silos, PGRK) are visible, their place is known, and it is possible to inflict "counterforce RNU" on them.

        Well, no need to fantasize if you are not aware of the flight time to our mine installations. Because they will be able to inflict "counterforce RNA" only through empty mines, and this was never included in their plans and will never enter until they have a TECHNICAL ability to covertly give a command to those means of destruction, the flight time of which will be less than five minutes.
        So far, the Americans do not see this in the foreseeable future, so there is no need to drive a wave, naval commanders ...
        Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
        But where the SSBN will inflict its blow - it is necessary to strain very hard to cover all sectors ...

        This is the ONLY reason why the submarine fleet will develop. But here, too, you are not pointing out that the control system of these forces is not reliable in terms of secrecy and unmasking signs, not to mention that it is vulnerable to the enemy's electronic warfare.
        That is why, given the cost of a kiloton, the fleet is the most expensive and unreliable type of weapons, and therefore either it will be gradually reduced, or the problem will be solved to eliminate these shortcomings. If you know how to get rid of the "birthmarks" of the fleet, then tell us in a popular form, because as far as I know, neither you nor Klimov bother with this, and are ready to present everything as a problem of some private naval weapons.
        1. S. Viktorovich
          S. Viktorovich 10 January 2021 15: 57
          +1
          Yes, the submarine fleet should develop and the author is right, speaking about the problems of its development, incl. in terms of the characteristics of the forces ensuring the deployment and duty of SSBNs I agree with "ccsr" that in fact one of the main problems of the fleet is an archaic communication and control system.
        2. Boa kaa
          Boa kaa 11 January 2021 21: 54
          +2
          Quote: ccsr
          flight time to our mine installations. Because they will be able to inflict "counterforce RNU" only on empty mines,
          This is if the Minutemans, and if the Trident with water slots? or with an Ax (AGM-158E?) from the water area of ​​the NSR in the summer? What kind of flight time is an important question, but there is a problem of TIMELY detection of the launch of invisible KRLLs in the positional area, OS and other infrastructure ... Isn't that why we were so puzzled by the continuous radar field in the North?
          Quote: ccsr
          until they have a TECHNICAL ability to covertly issue a command to those means of destruction, the flight time of which will be less than five minutes.
          These issues are systematically worked out in the course of ALL KSHT / KSHU of the strategic command of the US Armed Forces. And in the first echelon they have SSBN / SSGN. And now the Virgins have joined them. Commands via KA-repeaters and even cannot be tracked: continuous "white noise" ...
          Quote: ccsr
          the control system of these forces is not reliable in terms of secrecy and unmasking signs, not to mention the fact that it is vulnerable to the enemy's electronic warfare systems.
          All our forces (RPK SN) are included in a single BU system. The signal for use is received through the spacecraft, being at depth, through the towed "gut". The first sign that it is time to "change for the first time" is the transfer to continuous communication ... With the receipt of the signal, everything is automatic, right up to the removal of the code-locks ... When I served everything was a little more "human". Now almost everything is reduced to pressing the "Button".
          Quote: ccsr
          the navy is the most costly and unreliable type of weapons, and therefore either it will be gradually reduced, or the problem of eliminating these shortcomings will be solved.
          Yes, the navy is an expensive weapon. Reliable when used skillfully. Reduce? No, they will rather lead to reasonable sufficiency. There are problems and they are being solved. Not as fast as we would like, but they are resolved. There are many reasons. Science, technology, professionals ... everywhere there is something to work on.
          Quote: ccsr
          If you know how to get rid of the "birthmarks" of the fleet, then tell us in a popular form
          These are not birthmarks, but rather "white spots". We have many smart people, not very active, strong-willed, decisive, not afraid to go to the end. Podvizhnikov died, with proletarian determination. Everyone has something to lose ...
          Quote: S. Viktorovich
          one of the main problems of the fleet is the archaic communication and control system.
          She is improving. The main direction is through space. It is difficult to suppress, it is guaranteed to bring EPR to the entire water area.
          In general, the conversation is beyond what is permissible. It's worth thinking about.
          Yours faithfully, hi
          1. ccsr
            ccsr 12 January 2021 12: 26
            -2
            Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
            This is if the Minutemans, and if the Trident with water slots?

            From what water area - explain to begin with.
            Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
            or with an Ax (AGM-158E?) from the water area of ​​the Northern Sea Route in the summer?

            What other subsonic "Ax" is in general a yesterday's day for our air defense, because they learned how to deal with them at the end of the existence of the USSR.
            Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
            What is the flight time is an important question, but there is a problem of TIMELY detection of the launch of invisible KRLLs in the positional area,

            And what will all the other US strategic nuclear forces do at this time - wait for the results of this launch, or should they also begin to prepare in order to simultaneously strike the first strike? Have you even thought about it? Yes, and the flight of cruise missiles itself will not last ten minutes, so that the MASSIVE launch of them will be immediately opened, at least for the operation of the radar:
            A cruise missile continuously measures the altitude of the terrain under its flight path using a radar altimeter and compares the results of these measurements with the readings of a barometric altimeter.

            https://topwar.ru/17195-metody-navigacii-krylatyh-raket.html
            The operation algorithm and frequencies of such altimeters have long been known, and therefore they can be automatically recorded even by small air defense posts.
            1. Fizik M
              Fizik M 15 January 2021 16: 57
              0
              Quote: ccsr
              What other subsonic "Ax" is in general a yesterday's day for our air defense, because they learned how to deal with them at the end of the existence of the USSR.

              warrant officer, YOUR sidekicks (warrant officers) from PYVYo hammered to tell YOU about the PROBABILITIES and the expectation of this "learned"
          2. ccsr
            ccsr 12 January 2021 12: 54
            -2
            Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
            These issues are systematically worked out in the course of ALL KSHT / KSHU of the strategic command of the US Armed Forces. And in the first echelon they have SSBN / SSGN.

            Yes, they know as well as we do that the actions of their SSBNs are being monitored and those that appear too close to our shores can be destroyed even before the attack starts and the Americans will not even know the reason. We will also keep our SSBNs in the first echelon in relation to American territory, but this does not mean that they will be entrusted with the main task of destroying the United States - our Strategic Missile Forces will be the main element in this process. Although I do not deny that it is precisely the close location of our SSBNs that will make the Americans even more feel like our "iron hand" is squeezing their causal place.
            Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
            All our forces (RPK SN) are included in a single BU system. The signal for use is received through the spacecraft, being at depth, through the towed "gut".

            So this is the most vulnerable link for controlling our submarine forces - firstly, all our satellites are controlled by the Americans, and in a threatened period they will simply suppress them with their own electronic warfare forces or shoot them down (they are doing this kind of work). Secondly, your "gut" itself unmasks the nuclear submarine, and this is also a weak link in the control system. So there will be only one hope for HF radio communication or at VLF stations that they will conduct a short two-way session in order to receive a combat order and confirm with a receipt of its acceptance. And then launch and die with honor, because the enemy will almost immediately determine the coordinates of the ascent and destroy the submarine.
            Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
            Yes, the navy is an expensive weapon. Reliable when used skillfully. Reduce? No, they will rather lead to reasonable sufficiency.

            You and I can only guess about this, but keep in mind that our doctrine with the Strategic Missile Forces was determined by the best minds of the Soviet Union, from academicians to the highest military ranks, who already looked a hundred years ahead. We have no alternative for the Strategic Missile Forces - this is what we must proceed from. And even sixty years after that, we still haven't come up with anything better.
            Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
            The main direction is through space. It is difficult to suppress, it is guaranteed to bring EPR to the entire water area.

            I wonder who told you this? Already in the eighties we did not tie our strategic nuclear forces to space, even from the point of view of delivering commands, and we always knew that space systems would be put out of action during a threatened period. Around that time, work began on the Soviet GLONASS, but they were abandoned because they realized that all this was expensive and unreliable for the army. And only after the collapse of the USSR, these works continued, because it was required by the national economy in the first place. So I don’t share your optimism about space - I have known this topic well since the seventies, and I have a different opinion about its sustainability.
            1. Fizik M
              Fizik M 15 January 2021 16: 55
              +1
              Quote: ccsr
              the actions of their SSBNs are being monitored, and those that appear too close to our shores can be destroyed even before the start of the attack and the Americans will not even know the reason.

              fool
              ensign, have a snack! lol
              Quote: ccsr
              all our satellites are controlled by the Americans, and during a threatened period they will simply suppress them with their own electronic warfare forces or shoot them down (they are doing such work).

              fool
              Quote: ccsr
              your "gut" itself unmasks the nuclear submarine,

              wassat
              in short - this is nonsense of an illiterate ensign
              Quote: ccsr
              Already in the eighties we did not tie our strategic nuclear forces to space, even from the point of view of delivering commands, and we always knew

              well, yes, YOU and YOUR sidekick prapory "always knew" lol
              especially after the "fire water"
        3. Fizik M
          Fizik M 15 January 2021 16: 49
          0
          Quote: ccsr
          Well, no need to fantasize if you are not aware of the flight time to our mine installations. Because they will be able to inflict "counterforce RNU" only on empty mines,

          warrant officer, do not talk nonsense hurts her lol
          but go on, "convulsions of strategic thought" wassat from the ensign - warehouse manager, this fellow weekend ahead, make people laugh lol
          Quote: ccsr
          This is the ONLY reason why the submarine fleet will develop

          wassat
          what, however, creative spasms are in the body part on which some warrant officers wear a cap lol
          Quote: ccsr
          Klimov, don't bother too much

          ensign, you'd better bother with stew and footcloths - this is your "level" lol
          how to spank nonsense on issues on which you don’t understand lol
  • A_Lex
    A_Lex 9 January 2021 14: 30
    +1
    And here already some good questions arise:
    "What is it: stupidity or deliberate sabotage and undermining the combat effectiveness of the Russian Navy and Armed Forces? Moreover, undermining precisely the ability to carry out tasks of nuclear deterrence? Who benefits from this? Why is this done? "


    Such a dilemma can arise only when analyzing the short-term stage of the situation. But as the data accumulates, which add up to a clear trend, the reason for doubt disappears. The longer the situation lasts and the more facts that are interpreted as "systemic stupidity" accumulate, the more reason to confidently assert that this is sabotage.

    Because at such a level of hierarchy such a phenomenon as "systemic stupidity" is impossible. People who often over the heads of others, having outstripped or neutralized competitors, sat in high offices, are not at all stupid. Apparatus intrigues and political undercover struggle require quick, flexible, high-quality thinking, for which the ability to clearly understand the real picture and set priorities is vital. Therefore, by definition, there can be no fools at the top. In the absence of a system for the transfer of power by inheritance, there may be scoundrels at the top, but fools are not.

    Therefore, the answer to the question is simple: the leadership is the enemies of the country. Moreover, the enemies are not the state, but the country, because the state is only a special superstructure over the society of the country, which is a mechanism, and in the form in which it is now set up, this mechanism is pursuing a hostile policy towards the country. Those. the country is always one, but at the same time it can have different forms of government in different historical periods, such as: RI, USSR, RF.

    But the state as a computer only clearly implements the program laid down in it, the initiator of the development of which is the leadership. Hence the systematic negative results, which should not be surprised. After all, if you take projects for the fleet, then you will not find a single new project, the functionality of which fully meets the current requirements. And this is 20 years later. Only a naive person can believe that all this is the result of some ridiculous, monstrous accident that has been going on for decades.

    What is the point of fulfilling an order to undermine the combat capability of the fleet? It's very simple. The fleet is both a complex and self-sufficient tool for projecting power outward. In fact, the fleet is an instrument with which military control over the planet is exercised. If there is no efficient fleet, there is no possibility for control. There is no possibility for control, which means that such a country cannot compete with another country that has set itself the goal of having a monopoly on control. Who currently has such a monopoly? USA. In fact, they needed the destruction of the USSR only in order to eliminate a competitor who was preventing them control the entire planet... Accordingly, the main goal of the Russian shipbuilding program is to eliminate the technical ability for the Russian fleet to throw a real challenge to the US fleet. And, what is noteworthy, over the course of 30 years, the combat capability of the fleet has been steadily declining and continues to decline, because old ships are decommissioned, and their place is taken either by ships that are not functioning properly, or generally functioning, but whose functions are partially or completely irrelevant to modern requirements, and then these ships are not competitive. Simply put, the place of old ships is taken by incapacitated ships. Therefore, the solution to all the oddities, absurdities and incomprehensibility is simple - the leadership works in the interests of the United States.
    1. DrEng527
      DrEng527 9 January 2021 15: 16
      -3
      Quote: A_Lex
      Simply put, the place of old ships is taken by incapacitated ships

      The most curious thing is that a similar process is going on in the USA! request
      1. A_Lex
        A_Lex 9 January 2021 15: 22
        +2
        a similar process is underway in the USA


        Lying.
        1. DrEng527
          DrEng527 9 January 2021 15: 28
          0
          Quote: A_Lex
          Lying.

          you are badly educated and poorly educated ... request
          I give examples:
          1) Zamwolt was created instead of EM type Arlie Berg;
          2) LCS launched instead of Perry-class frigates request
          1. A_Lex
            A_Lex 9 January 2021 15: 42
            +2
            I give examples:


            The examples are incorrect, since these are separate experimental projects that do not affect the overall combat effectiveness of the fleet as a whole. The Arlie Burke series of destroyers is under construction and continues to be built. Zamvolt was originally planned in the amount of 32 pieces. Subsequently, the series was reduced to 3.
            You give deliberately incorrect examples, knowing full well that they are incorrect. Therefore, you are deliberately manipulating and doing so in the interests of the United States. Those. to put it simply, you are doing the usual propaganda. For this reason, further communication with you is impractical.

            you are badly educated and poorly educated ...


            Lying.
            1. DrEng527
              DrEng527 14 January 2021 19: 33
              0
              Quote: A_Lex
              You give deliberately incorrect examples, knowing full well that they are incorrect.

              this is in your understanding so, no more request the rest of the saliva is ridiculous and self-fucking ... bully

              Quote: A_Lex
              Amvolt was originally planned in the amount of 32 pieces. Subsequently, the series was reduced to 3.

              why was it cut? bully
              Quote: A_Lex
              and doing it in the interests of the United States. Those. to put it simply, you are doing the usual propaganda. For this reason, further communication with you is impractical.

              fi, you are not just badly brought up, but also from informers ... bully
        2. Cyril G ...
          Cyril G ... 9 January 2021 22: 55
          -1
          In fact, your opponent is right.
          1. A_Lex
            A_Lex 10 January 2021 01: 30
            +3
            In fact, your opponent is right.


            Of course no. The Russian fleet has lost its combat effectiveness against the background of the late USSR model fleet. And the US Navy has not lost its combat effectiveness. The rest doesn't count.
  • Ivan_Ivanov
    Ivan_Ivanov 9 January 2021 15: 01
    -2
    The article is so voluminous that to disassemble it all by theses and chapters is to write an even more voluminous article that no one will read, and spend several times more time on it than the author spent on his own. After all, you will have to operate (unlike the author) not with references to unknown experts, unnamed sources in the navy, not with propaganda clichés, but with real figures with performance characteristics, quantity, economic and industrial potential not only of ours, but also of potential opponents. After all, the author did not even give the main figures, not only of our watercraft and their weapons, but even more so did not provide information about what we will face with a potential enemy. And even more so, he did not bother to link our economic and production capabilities of the country with his Wishlist and compare them with the capabilities of adversaries. They say that if the reader wants to, he himself can rummage on the Internet and find all this information, but he, you see, lack of time, take his word for it.
    1. DrEng527
      DrEng527 9 January 2021 15: 30
      +4
      Quote: Ivan_Ivanov
      its whole by theses and chapters

      defeat the author using one thesis as an example, so that readers see you are right, and not a desire to gloss over the problems ... request
      1. Ivan_Ivanov
        Ivan_Ivanov 9 January 2021 16: 47
        -2
        Third. Marine underwater weapons (MPS) and countermeasures ...
        ... photos of loading torpedo junk USET-80 on the newest APCR project 955 ...
        Today, the "strategist" ammunition includes only one type of naval underwater weapon - the morally and technically obsolete USET-80 torpedoes (even the year they were put into service - the 80th ...

        What are the submarines of our "partners" armed with?
        Los Angeles nuclear submarine ... and Mark 48 ADCAP torpedoes. Torpedoes "Gould Mark 48" ... (Wikipedia)
        Type "Seawolf" ... torpedoes Mk 48 ADCAP (http://zonwar.ru)
        Date of adoption of the Mk 48 torpedo - 1972 (Wikipedia)
        Yes, the Mark 48 ADCAP is an upgrade of this torpedo made in 1988. To what I say in the spirit of the author of the article - how deep is this upgrade? there is every reason to believe from reliable sources from the Pentagon that the modernization was only on paper, but in fact it was cutting the dough.
        And what about the modernization of our torpedoes? Why is the author silent about this ??? Meanwhile:
        USET-80 "Getit" / product 2503 (1988), USET-80K "Ceramics" (1989), USET-80KM (1993), USET-80-500 (1994), UETT (1999 g.), USET-80 OKR 2010
        That is, the author's torpedoes, which were put into service in 1988, are "morally and technically obsolete junk." But compared to WHAT? Compared to American torpedoes in 1972 ??? At the same time, both American and our torpedoes were modernized.
        At the same time, American torpedoes are in service with multipurpose nuclear submarines, designed specifically to combat enemy boats and ships, and ours are on SSBNs.
        .
        The same can be said about the counter-torpedoes, which (in my opinion of an amateur) are NOT present in any fleet of the world. There were none in the USSR either. But their absence is presented by the author as a CATASTROPHE !!!!!!

        Is it enough?

        My conclusion is that the author is a propagandist-all-consuming propagandist.
        1. Ivan_Ivanov
          Ivan_Ivanov 9 January 2021 16: 50
          -2
          Error instead of: "our torpedoes entered service in 1988"
          .
          Read: "our torpedoes entered service in 1980"
        2. timokhin-aa
          9 January 2021 18: 24
          0
          You fool, all 48s in the 2000s were upgraded to the level of mod.7, with digital signal processing, and a broadband CCH capable of detecting even low-frequency oscillations, as a result, if against mod6 and below you can create a working GPT, then against seven is NOT IN PRINCIPLE, it is contrary to the laws of nature.
          And if she followed you, then either anti-torpedoes, or you are a dead man, just no options.

          You don't know the subject from the word at all, why talk nonsense?
          1. Ivan_Ivanov
            Ivan_Ivanov 9 January 2021 23: 25
            +1
            Are you trying to insult me ​​with the intention that I take offense, take a pose and start insulting you in return, or stop objecting? Well, that means I'm right and you have no other arguments and methods.
            .
            Have ALL MK 48 torpedoes been upgraded? (as you claim) Where did you get this information? Straight from the Pentagon?
            We often encountered enemy weapons that were considered invincible. Tiger tanks, U-2 planes and similar wunderwales. Well, and such a deadly torpedo Mk 48 7 modification for the time being. Also, the author did not bother to provide information on our latest modifications of torpedoes, simply calling them junk. "Bias" is too soft a word for this approach. Rather, the term "manipulation of facts" is more appropriate.
            .
            Also, in the previous article "Fundamentals of Shipbuilding Policy: Principles and Their Application" the author convinces the reader that it is necessary to build ships with proven, efficient systems that are already being mass-produced. That's exactly what they do with Boreas. They install waste systems that are NOT FACT, which is worse than American ones. So it is not known who will emerge victorious in a hypothetical collision. But the author still convinces that without counter-torpedoes (which no one has and never had) nowhere, and the submarines are not combat-ready.
            So what happens? Do we need to stop production and acceptance of SSBNs into the fleet until hypothetical counter-torpedoes are ready? Why, in the case of corvettes, the author proposes to equip ships with waste, serial samples, albeit outdated (not fact, and inferior (not fact) to the enemy in terms of performance characteristics, and SSBN proposes to equip non-existent systems, and if there are none, then everything is lost? combat duty is impossible?
            1. timokhin-aa
              10 January 2021 00: 28
              -1
              Have ALL MK 48 torpedoes been upgraded? (as you claim) Where did you get this information? Straight from the Pentagon?


              All. Let's just say, from the Pentagon in the rehash of a couple of residents, a dozen signalmen and then a couple of officers.
              And if it's no joke, then these things are not secret in the West.

              So what happens? Do we need to stop production and acceptance of SSBNs into the fleet until hypothetical counter-torpedoes are ready?


              They were ready back in 1998.

              On this my bead gun overheats, you are free.
              1. Ivan_Ivanov
                Ivan_Ivanov 10 January 2021 11: 15
                -1
                Another low, pathetic, unworthy attempt to insult your opponent on your part, which once again prove that you have no arguments and that I am right.

                I am very glad that you are NOT an active officer in our army.
                1. Fizik M
                  Fizik M 15 January 2021 18: 31
                  0
                  Quote: Ivan_Ivanov
                  Another low, pathetic, unworthy attempt to insult your opponent on your part, which once again prove that you have no arguments and that I am right.
                  I am very glad that you are NOT an active officer in our army.

                  with this "flow" ... wassat - to "ducks"
              2. Fizik M
                Fizik M 15 January 2021 18: 11
                +1
                Quote: timokhin-aa
                They were ready back in 1998.

                were not ready
                but the first option was just then
                on targets such as MK48 were quite functional
            2. Fizik M
              Fizik M 15 January 2021 18: 29
              +1
              Quote: Ivan_Ivanov
              Have ALL MK 48 torpedoes been upgraded?

              in BC - all
              Quote: Ivan_Ivanov
              Where did you get this information? Straight from the Pentagon?

              contract published
              and taking into account the fact that they loaded the first "7" on the submarine back in 2006 ...
              Quote: Ivan_Ivanov
              We often encountered enemy weapons that were considered invincible. Tiger tanks, U-2 planes and similar wunderwales.

              with this "argumentation" wassat if you please, to the murzilka lol
              Quote: Ivan_Ivanov
              SSBNs until hypothetical counter-torpedoes are ready?

              nifiga se "hypothetical" belay
              they were OBLIGED to be at 955 according to State contracts and customer requirements!
              angry
          2. Alexander Galaktionov
            Alexander Galaktionov 10 January 2021 07: 31
            -1
            Our torpedo Fizik-2 (Case) should be at least at the level of MK-48 mod.7?
            1. Fizik M
              Fizik M 15 January 2021 18: 08
              +1
              Quote: Alexander Galaktionov
              Our torpedo Fizik-2 (Case) should be at least at the level of MK-48 mod.7?

              Fizika-2 - NO, this is a "paper torpedo" from the past
              Case - WILL be deliberately worse than MK-48 mod.7 (2006) - for purely organizational reasons
        3. DrEng527
          DrEng527 14 January 2021 19: 36
          +1
          Quote: Ivan_Ivanov
          Is it enough?

          yes, you accuse the author of doing yourself ... request Below Timokhin answered request
        4. Fizik M
          Fizik M 15 January 2021 18: 41
          0
          Quote: Ivan_Ivanov
          Date of adoption of the Mk 48 torpedo - 1972 (Wikipedia)

          fool
          Do not hurt bullshit, it hurts!
          the fact that in BC - mod7 - 2006 (at the same time, at least 5 software options for it were changed, and for each of them, the US Navy fired more shots than ALL firing statistics by Physicists)
          Quote: Ivan_Ivanov
          And what about the modernization of our torpedoes? Why is the author silent about this ??? Meanwhile:
          USET-80 "Getit" / product 2503 (1988), USET-80K "Ceramics" (1989), USET-80KM (1993), USET-80-500 (1994), UETT (1999 g.),

          the author wrote about this a long time ago - there is still the same "Ceramics" which was "fought with MK46 1961)
          and all this is the intake of TNK "Dastan" (Kyrgyzstan)

          Quote: Ivan_Ivanov
          USET-80 OKR 2010

          wassat
          just ask what "Kant" is belay
          Quote: Ivan_Ivanov
          There were none in the USSR either. But their absence is presented by the author as a CATASTROPHE !!!!!!

          for us - YES
          and the enemy has an EFFECTIVE SPD PTZ
          Quote: Ivan_Ivanov
          My conclusion is that the author is a propagandist-all-consuming propagandist.

          YOU have no "conclusions", but only an illiterate nonsense
    2. Fizik M
      Fizik M 15 January 2021 17: 00
      0