Military Review

Secret Japanese Navy

287
Secret Japanese Navy

"Nagato" appeared during the eighth moon, and his brother "Mutsu" - in the month of long nights. In other words, the exact date of commissioning remained unknown. All the statements were lies, and the few witnesses did not reveal the secrets to anyone.


Silence avoided many issues in the conclusion of the Washington Naval Agreement. The Mikado envoys who arrived at the conference announced that the Mutsu entered service in September 1921 and even managed to pass 2500 test miles. Therefore, it does not fall under the restrictions for battleships under construction.

As befits gentlemen from big politics, nobody took their word for it. But due to the lack of solid evidence, the alignment was in favor of Japan: the second ship of the "Nagato" type avoided being cut into scrap metal.

If the conference attendees knew the true value of these 40000-ton vehicles, they would have done everything to get rid of both. Changing the terms of the upcoming deal.

The magnificent "Nagato" ... The world's first battleship with 410-mm cannons, from which the British themselves were dumbfounded. While the profits from the sale of naval weapons were calculated in Foggy Albion, the Japanese learned everything. And they surpassed their patrons.

They said little - did a lot


Victory in the Russo-Japanese War earned the Japanese the title of major naval power. However, Japan's line fleet consisted of 100% battleships built abroad. Exactly half of them (6 out of 12) were deprived of warranty service and required serious investments to bring them into combat readiness. The reason for this was known circumstances.

After the fall of Port Arthur and the volleys of Tsushima, the Japanese captured, raised and restored 17 warships of the Russian Imperial fleet, among which there were "Varyag" and six battleships.

Eight years later, the captured ships were put under fire from 356-mm guns of the Congo-class battle cruisers. The targets went to the bottom. And the Japanese themselves tried not to mention the fact that they became the owners of the largest warships in the world and, probably, the strongest at that time.

The lead "Congo" was laid down at the Vickers shipyard on the eve of the First World War. And it became the last Japanese ship built overseas. Each subsequent type acquired more and more independence. Until it was Nagato's turn.


In 1920, the Japanese unveiled a monstrous ship that was at least a decade ahead of its peers. The main caliber is 16 inches, the protection is according to the best standards of the era and the declared speed is 23 knots. No one else had such a combination of parameters!

The real characteristics of "Nagato" became known only in 1945. When the American military boarded the captured battleship and made a lot of interesting discoveries.

The power plants of the "standard battleships" of the United States developed a capacity of about 30 liters. sec., providing the squadrons with a single maximum speed of 000 knots. Over the decades, it turned out that the chosen standard was unacceptably small to counter Japanese battleships.

Four turbines with a total capacity of 4 liters were found in the engine rooms of Nagato. with., and the real speed of the Japanese exceeded 80 knots.

First representative of the class of high-speed battleships


Faster than all Americans. Faster than the Nelsons built in the late 1920s. Surpassing even the Queen Elizabeth in speed, the fast wing of the British navy.

Only rare battle cruisers could compete with the Japanese supercar. In contrast, "Nagato" did not have compromises in terms of weapons and protection.

With twice the power density, Japanese battleships spent less time recovering speed after making maneuvers. They could put a stick over the T of any formation of "standard battle ships" or get away from overwhelming forces and then attack again in an unexpected place. By dictating your initiative and the rules of the battle.

Another surprise Nagato had to do with his defense scheme. In theory, she repeated the American concept

"all or nothing".

As it turned out later, the Japanese ship had protected extremities.

History with "Nagato" - a complete failure of Western intelligence services, which threatened with serious consequences in the battles. A reminder of the principles that always guide the Japanese armed forces.

The last joke was related to the 41 cm / 45 guns, which in the spring of 1922 urgently changed their designation to 40 cm / 45. Under the terms of the Washington Agreement, the main caliber of battleships was not to exceed 16 inches (406 mm).

Real little things, a few extra millimeters. But the little lie turned into a big scam.

Next time, under the designation 40 cm / 45, the creation of 460-mm guns for the Yamato battleships was carried out.

With the veil of secrecy surrounding the Yamato, the samurai clearly overdid it. At some point, it was necessary to reveal the cards in order to get the most out of the situation. The appearance of such ships in the theater of operations could force the enemy to take precautions and slow down the pace of the offensive. Having spent inadequate efforts to neutralize the threat, like the story with "Tirpitz".

The Yankees themselves would have rushed to build super-battleships with 500 mm artillery - to the detriment of other tasks. For a country that could afford the construction of "Alaska", such a project would be just right.

But the Japanese did not need scandalous fame. They kept restraint and calm in anticipation of an artillery duel, where they could surprise the enemy with their main caliber.

The enemy, of course, was surprised, but it was too late


Neither the speed of the ships, nor the caliber of the cannons, nor the tricks with replacing the towers of cruisers - nothing could save the Imperial Navy.

The reason for the inglorious defeat should be sought in the fact that, in terms of GDP, the Empire of Japan five times inferior to the United States.

If you look at the situation from the standpoint of our time, then the ratio of the GDP of Russia and Japan is described by a completely different proportion. Now Japanese claims are again directed in our direction. And, as historical experience shows, this is a very difficult opponent.

Assessments of the confrontation at sea usually come down to the mention of Tsushima. But, gentlemen, this is the case. To repeat Tsushima, you need at least an equal fleet. A naval battle cannot take place if one of the opponents has no ships. Indeed, in terms of the number of combat-ready ships, the Pacific Fleet is 25-30 times inferior to the Japanese Navy.


The only threat may be a situation where the balance of power will take an absolute advantage. And then attempts to forcefully resolve territorial disputes will follow. To which there will be no one and absolutely nothing to argue with.

Start a nuclear conflict over such little things? It's easier to start a criminal case. Or they will report that they have long wanted to donate the islands. This is a possible public response to the conference "Russia and Japan: 120 Years of Mutual Friendship" held somewhere in Seattle.

But pretty bad jokes. Let's turn to the facts.

Let's consider it an honor to have such an opponent


Eastern neighbors don't brag about what they don't have. But they do not talk about what they have.

Everything that is reliably known about the Japanese Navy is that they hide ships and underestimate the characteristics weapons... An example would be the awkward classification of the ship composition, in which 250-meter aircraft-carrying ships are presented as "destroyers".

After the launch of the destroyers, the expected news of the conclusion of a contract for the purchase of vertical takeoff fighters followed. Wherein news came from a US manufacturer. The Japanese defense department remained silent until recently.

However, there is nothing to be surprised at.

What associations do you have with the phrase "experimental" or "auxiliary vessel"? Keelektor, a sea tug or a long-term construction ship that failed tests, which was ordered to be taken into "experimental combat operation"?


The top illustration shows the experimental vessel "Victor Cherokov" (project 20360 OS), an unfinished floating crane-loader of ammunition, turned into a test bench for torpedo weapons.

On the bottom is the missile destroyer JS Asuka (test vessel ASE-6102), not included in any of the lists. On board, the AFAR radars and underdeck missile launchers are "tested". Together with the most modern naval weapons, the gas turbine power plant, sonars and an anti-submarine helicopter continue to be tested.

We are accustomed to the fact that significant events in the defense industry are publicized from the high rostrum. We popularly choose the names for top-secret weapons! The speed and range of the missiles are discussed. And how many "Calibers" will be on the new corvettes.

Significant achievements of the Japanese military remain outside the public domain.

Has no analogues?


It is hard to believe that none of the Japanese leaders, with or without shoulder straps, deigned to show off in front of the cameras against the background of such "toys". And there was something to see.

So, based on the totality of available information, the hulls of Japanese submarines are made of steel with a yield strength of 1100 MPa. The use of such materials in shipbuilding is considered problematic (on the verge of impossible), due to unsatisfactory welding qualities. However, Kawasaki and Mitsubishi Heavy Industries seem to have uncovered the secret long ago and have the necessary technology.

The maximum diving depth for the submarines "Soryu" and "Taigi" under such conditions can reach 900 m. The deepest warships in the world. Otherwise (while maintaining the same immersion depth) the use of high-strength steel NS110 means a significant reduction in body weight.

The allocated reserves are spent on improving other unknown characteristics.

How many people know that Japan is serially building submarines with lithium-ion batteries as a single source of energy for underwater navigation?


Exceptionally expensive underwater Teslas, unmatched by any diesel-electric submarine project. The first of these submarines (Oryu) entered service modestly last year. And everyone thought it was a bold experiment.

But now there are already three such units. The most recent - the lead submarine of the next generation "Taigi" was launched in October 2020.

The launching of Japanese warships has always had a factor of surprise. A common practice is the absence of official names until the moment of entry into service.

In contrast to domestic traditions, where the laying of one bottom section is accompanied by loud fanfare and promises that the ship will enter service by the twentieth year.

One of the last surprises was Kumano. The first of the frigates of the new type 30FFM, launched in November 2020.


It is noteworthy that "Kumano" is the second representative of the series. The lead unnamed frigate, known in the west as FFM-1, for some unknown reason did not appear on time. An indelible shame for Japanese shipbuilders - a whole year has passed since the laying, and it has not yet been launched!

The declared displacement "Kumano" is 5500 tons. With its appearance, it became clear what the Japanese Navy will look like in the second quarter of the XNUMXst century.

Having built 28 destroyers using outdated technologies of the late 90s and early 30s, the Japanese moved to new standards. The 90FFM project uses a different hull and superstructure architecture. Automation and augmented reality (AR) technologies in ship control systems have led to a further reduction in the number of crew - up to XNUMX people.

It is stated that over the next ten years, 22 of these compact frigates with advanced capabilities will be built. The 30FFM project will include several sub-series.

Epilogue


Experience is what we get when we don't get what we want.

Observing the Japanese makes it possible to understand the true value of promises. What the present should look like

"Increased presence in the ocean."

At least thanks to them, we have a clear reference point.

In terms of paranoid secrecy, Japan has been in a weak position for far too long. The Japanese have learned to conduct covert preparation so as not to provoke premature rivalry anger. Silence is often too pretentious. But, as practice shows, it was the guarantee of all the loud and unexpected victories of the Japanese fleet.

Unlike us, where secrecy focuses only on where the allocated funds went.

In the Russian tradition, there is respect for those who speak and act little.

At the same time, hiding the name of the ships under construction is clearly not something that should be given priority attention. We have our own beautiful traditions and ceremonies associated with military equipment.

The only thing that can really be learned from the Japanese here is that as little time as possible passes between the laying of the keel and the entry of the ship into service.

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  1. Alexander Galaktionov
    Alexander Galaktionov 8 January 2021 06: 08
    +9
    The Japanese have a good fleet
    1. Machito
      Machito 8 January 2021 06: 12
      -23%
      Very informative message. And also oil and Toyota are not bad. And sushi with salmon. Wasabi is worse than horseradish.
      1. Alexander Galaktionov
        Alexander Galaktionov 8 January 2021 06: 17
        +18
        The Japanese fleet is superior to ours, can we build a fleet like Japan does not have in the near future What saves us nuclear weapons
        1. Machito
          Machito 8 January 2021 06: 29
          +24
          You don't need to steal anything. Everything is stolen before us. GPV 2020 for the construction of new ships has been completed by 30-40%.
          Corruption will destroy this country. (C) Business people.
          1. Alexander Galaktionov
            Alexander Galaktionov 8 January 2021 06: 40
            +27
            Corruption and officials with 2nd citizenship
            1. Machito
              Machito 8 January 2021 06: 46
              +30
              Read Timokhin and Klimov: in our USC and the fleet, the whole Tsushima mafia has organized, they are sawing the budget, they are building Rogozin models of ships and superplanes, but the fleet is not.
              The coach will give you a ride tomorrow. (C) Gentlemen of Fortune
              1. Alexander Galaktionov
                Alexander Galaktionov 8 January 2021 06: 54
                +2
                That's why I say that frigates pr 22350 with UKSK increased to 3 should be built on Yantar
                1. Machito
                  Machito 8 January 2021 07: 27
                  0
                  Yes, frigates and Karakurt must be spanked like sausages, and diesel submarines. And with corvettes everything is not easy at all.
                  1. Santa Fe
                    8 January 2021 07: 46
                    +27
                    and diesel submarines

                    The Russian Navy does not need diesels

                    A modern diesel engine of the Taigei level costs half a nuclear-powered ship, in the presence of ready-made technologies (the Yaps build these boats in series)

                    A simple diesel engine without VNEU in the 21st century is of no use to anyone. It's a steel guaranteed coffin

                    Yapi, Turks, Spaniards, Koreans, Germans build and buy nuclear submarines because they do not have (for various reasons) the infrastructure for a nuclear fleet

                    We don't have such a problem. There is everything you need to base nuclear-powered ships
                    1. Usher
                      Usher 8 January 2021 10: 56
                      -1
                      Quote: Santa Fe
                      and diesel submarines

                      The Russian Navy does not need diesels

                      A modern diesel engine of the Taigei level costs half a nuclear-powered ship, in the presence of ready-made technologies (the Yaps build these boats in series)

                      A simple diesel engine without VNEU in the 21st century is of no use to anyone. It's a steel guaranteed coffin

                      Yapi, Turks, Spaniards, Koreans, Germans build and buy nuclear submarines because they do not have (for various reasons) the infrastructure for a nuclear fleet

                      We don't have such a problem. There is everything you need to base nuclear-powered ships

                      Are you already determined by VNEU or Diesel? These are two different things.
                      1. SovAr238A
                        SovAr238A 8 January 2021 19: 59
                        +2
                        Quote: Usher

                        Are you already determined by VNEU or Diesel? These are two different things.


                        Come on?
                        Are you sure?
                        Boats with VNEU as the only movers?
                    2. 2 Level Advisor
                      2 Level Advisor 8 January 2021 11: 55
                      +11
                      at least in the Black Sea, nuclear submarines will not be able to be deployed due to the ban on nuclear engines, and they are not needed there ..
                      1. Santa Fe
                        8 January 2021 16: 28
                        +13
                        The Black Sea and the Baltic are under fire through aviation

                        I do not think that naval battles are possible in these reservoirs in the 21st century.
                      2. Sanichsan
                        Sanichsan 10 January 2021 20: 24
                        -2
                        Quote: Santa Fe
                        The Black Sea and the Baltic are under fire through aviation

                        very accurate remark!
                        Quote: Santa Fe
                        I do not think that naval battles are possible in these reservoirs in the 21st century.

                        and in what reservoirs are you going to arrange a naval battle with Japan? off Midway or in the middle of the Atlantic? formulate on which theater of operations we will face the Japanese fleet so as not to be able to use ground-based aircraft and ground-based anti-ship missiles?
                        again, how do you imagine this collision? second Jutland battle when two squadrons jump on each other and torment fiercely? belay I appeal to sanity !!! will not happen! and Tsushima will not, because to fight like this now is suicide for the Japanese and for the Chinese and for the American and Russian navy. for any fleet! soldier
                      3. Santa Fe
                        11 January 2021 03: 49
                        +4
                        SanichSun, in the last comment, it was about the use of the fleet in the Black and Baltic Seas. As you know, already in the twentieth century, these waters were considered limited for the use of warships. The Red Banner Baltic Fleet in such conditions simply could not go to sea, our opponents refused to use large ships and submarine forces in the Black Sea Fleet. There weren't even torpedo bombers there. The ships were sunk by ground-based bomber aircraft. Jet aircraft of the 21st century flies through these puddles in minutes

                        In the case of Japan, these are open sea areas
                      4. Sanichsan
                        Sanichsan 12 January 2021 23: 51
                        -2
                        Quote: Santa Fe
                        In the case of Japan, these are open sea areas

                        yes, but .. what's next then? there the 200 mile rule does not apply? acts request
                        actually the question is only one "What will the Russian fleet do at a distance of 1000 miles from the controlled shores and why should it sail there?" there is no explanation why the Russian fleet needs to resist the Japanese in the open ocean. Japan has a clear why the fleet. they are on the island and all their foreign trade communications are sea. Russia does not.
              2. vladcub
                vladcub 8 January 2021 12: 47
                0
                Oleg, I don’t know about you, but I would not be comfortable living next to the Chernobyl squadron
              3. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                Andrei from Chelyabinsk 8 January 2021 18: 40
                +4
                Quote: Santa Fe
                A modern diesel engine of the Taigei level costs half a nuclear-powered ship

                Fourth
                1. SovAr238A
                  SovAr238A 8 January 2021 20: 04
                  -1
                  Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                  Quote: Santa Fe
                  A modern diesel engine of the Taigei level costs half a nuclear-powered ship

                  Fourth


                  When compared with the Barracuda, then a little less than a third.
                2. Santa Fe
                  8 January 2021 20: 55
                  +3
                  Andrey, nuclear-powered ship does not mean Seawulf
                  History knew project 670 and Rube

                  If there is a need for a submarine combat unit, any nuclear-powered ship will be more profitable
              4. Alien From
                Alien From 8 January 2021 20: 19
                +4
                I agree with you, only our platforms do not have modern torpedoes ...... a suitcase without a handle, unfortunately .......
            2. saigon
              saigon 8 January 2021 12: 48
              +4
              Of course it should be, but the questions are not very funny.
              The most important thing is what kind of fleet do we need?
              What tasks should he perform?
              What ships and how many do we need?
              Without understanding what the hell the politicians want from the fleet, boxes can be riveted (if funds are available), but the fleet cannot be created.
              So you can take your time to tinker with ships without understanding how and against which enemy to use them.
              The Japanese fleet is strong, but the trouble is that the fleet cannot surf the waves all the time, and in any conflict with Japan, nuclear weapons will simply have to take out bases and ports on the islands, with a trailer in the Tokyo area.
              It seems to me that the Chinese fleet is more dangerous.
              1. bayard
                bayard 9 January 2021 00: 32
                +9
                Quote: saigon
                It seems to me that the Chinese fleet is more dangerous

                The fleets of China and Japan are today roughly equivalent. But the Japanese have more destroyers. And their SP is a very serious threat.
                And they have territorial claims to us.
                And these claims are serious and persistent.
                If there is some kind of mess in Russia, let us admit the slightest weakness and disorganization, they will bite off the Kuril Islands all the way to Sakhalin.
                So for us in the Far East, both of these threats are serious, and the sea one is from Japan.
                And it is more convenient for China to fight with us on land, look at their maps of territorial claims.
                ... And the people are still fleeing from the Far East ... With such a population, the Far East cannot be held, development programs and an influx of fresh forces are needed.
                Stalin had such a development plan.
                Maybe you should dust off your archive folders and read?
                But the modern government is much more pleasant to trade resources - they are temporary workers ...
                And the Country needs a Master.
                Real.
    2. AUL
      AUL 8 January 2021 11: 02
      +20
      Quote: Bearded
      Corruption will destroy this country. (FROM) Business people.

      The man from the Boulevard des Capucines. Well, not the point ...
    3. Vadim237
      Vadim237 8 January 2021 15: 28
      -9
      "Everything has been stolen before us. GPV 2020 for the construction of new ships has been completed by 30-40%." You probably forgot that in 2014, problems began with the economy, and sanctions and the termination of the supply of turbines and other equipment from Ukraine for our ships stopped, and so they completed GPV 2020 for the construction of ships by 30-40% and the extension began until 2027. And it is not necessary to add corruption here as the only problem, it is not unacceptable in disrupting the execution of orders.
      1. bayard
        bayard 9 January 2021 00: 50
        +9
        Quote: Vadim237
        GPV 2020 for the construction of new ships has been completed by 30-40%. "

        This is probably with inflatable boats and boats?
        God grant that 25% of it was completed for ships of the main classes.
        Quote: Vadim237
        You probably forgot that in 2014 the economy started to have problems

        yes This is when, instead of regaining the historical lands of Novorossiya and Little Russia at the request of the legitimate president of Ukraine, they conspired with the organizers of this Sabbath?
        And got:
        - sanctions,
        - insulation,
        - disruption of weapons programs and a number of other serious programs due to the severing of ties in cooperation,
        - collapse of living standards and decline / stagnation in the economy,
        - pension reform and new taxes,
        - sabotage of officials and managers of all levels with dual / triple citizenship ...
        and much more.
        Quote: Vadim237
        And it is not necessary to add corruption here as the only problem

        Corruption is a complex problem, and equally destructive, from which side you look. When they steal THIS, the result is no longer important. But they will report "beautifully".
        Quote: Vadim237
        it is not unacceptable in disrupting the execution of orders.

        Every breakdown and failure has its own corruption component.
        Is always .
        And then there is nonsense, laziness and incompetence.
        And deliberate malice.
        And if this malicious intent is not corrupt, but IDEAL ... this is much ... much worse ... this is already sabotage, sabotage and treason.
        1. roll
          roll 11 January 2021 09: 17
          -1
          The return of "historical" lands always ends in problems. Not new at all, one might say - got off easy.
          1. bayard
            bayard 11 January 2021 13: 56
            +4
            Did you get off?
            Nobody got rid of anything. This music (sanctions, threat of war, isolation, accusations of all mortal misfortunes) will be ... long. It's forever .
            You will still have to "get off" both "for Crimea," and "for the Donbass," and "for interfering in the affairs of Belarus," and for "Navalny's cowards", and for the storming of the antifa of the US Congress under Trump's banners ...
            The return of historical lands always ends with the strengthening of the State, the movement of external borders further from the capitals, the expansion of the internal market, the strengthening of defense capabilities, and the expansion of the mobilization reserve / potential. It is always a demonstration of strength and solidarity, firmness in intentions and deeds, confidence in one's own Right and Truth.
            And the inferior always shows WEAKNESS.
            And weakness is not forgiven.
            Weakness is punished.
            The weak are beaten!
            The strong one takes his own without hesitation and antics.
            He is in his own right.
            1. roll
              roll 13 January 2021 08: 18
              -4
              We hear the hymn to the law of power regularly, but where are the great shit empires of the past?
              Where is the huge shit? Kaput to the bastard. How did the great Russia rally forever there? Especially entertaining forever. Where is the Russian shit empire of the Gottorp? Where is British? Where is the Second Reich of the Hohenzollerns? Where is the 1000-year-old Third Reich? So let's see if the shit empire survives its
              1. George Davydov
                George Davydov 24 March 2021 16: 47
                0
                Or maybe it's these?

                https://www.liveinternet.ru/users/6326443/post430608811
                KHABAD LYUBAVICH: PLANS FOR RUSSIA SUBMITTED THE GENUINE TEXT OF MENACHEM M. SCHNEERSON'S SPEECH
                A Slav, a Russian, can be destroyed, but never conquered. That is why this seed is subject to elimination, and at first - to a sharp reduction in its numbers.
                2. The planet is experiencing intense climate warming. The desert moves northward at a speed of 10 km per year, land dehydration - 25 m per year. Already now the ancient centers of the world - Athens, Rome and, most importantly, Jerusalem (Israel) fall into the zone of artificial irrigation only. In 20-30 years, it will be necessary to think about the resettlement of huge masses of civilized peoples to the north of their current residence. By that time, in the Kuban, in the Rostov region, in Ukraine, there will be an amazing subtropical climate, and in the Black Earth Region and in the north of Ukraine - the climate of today's Ciscaucasia. If we recall history, then we must admit that these lands are the original lands of the ancient Jewish Khazaria, that is, Israel, captured by Kievan Rus in the XNUMXth century. The Slavs are temporary guests and are subject to eviction.
                We will return this territory and create on these fertile lands the Great Khazaria - a Jewish state, as we created Israel 50 years ago, pushing the Palestinians out. Some of the Israelis will move here, and we will drive the Slavic far north, beyond Moscow. There will be a small northern territory - a reservation with a compact population, a reservation similar to the Indians in America. "
                1. roll
                  roll 25 March 2021 08: 49
                  0
                  It is unreasonable to comment on obvious delirium. Starting from the beginning, Slave is a slave in most European languages, so the Slavs are slaves, at least that is how they were perceived from the outside. The main export goods of Russia of the 10th century: honey wax, slaves, it is clear that they were caught in the neighboring village (village) ...
    4. roll
      roll 11 January 2021 09: 15
      -4
      Corruption is what softens bad laws and limits the insanities of power.
      1. bayard
        bayard 11 January 2021 14: 04
        +1
        "Corruption is the lubricant of the economy"?
        Quote: roll
        limits the insanity of power.

        belay How is it?
        The authorities gave rise to corruption in order to enrich themselves madly and with impunity ... and by this they ... limited ... their own follies?
        Eco Your logic turns your brains out. lol
        Chutzpah - a success. yes
        1. roll
          roll 12 January 2021 10: 55
          -3
          1. Power has not generated corruption.
          2. Corruption limits the insanity of power in a natural way
          3. This is insane enrichment for the ass-and-pot-headed rogues, but for the rulers, enrichment is quite reasonable.
          4. To limit risks, alternate airfields, normal citizenship and raising children outside the plantation of parents are used.
          5. Try to understand: Russian patriotism is a religion of fools. When you understand, the rest will be clear to you.
          1. bayard
            bayard 12 January 2021 13: 19
            0
            Quote: roll
            5. Try to understand: Russian patriotism is a religion of fools.

            I am not a religious person and I do not need to try anything, I have tried enough in this life.
            Quote: roll
            1. Power has not generated corruption.

            laughing The young man, many well-known corrupt officials of the 90s, had been familiar to me since 1991, including Khodorkovsky, Nevzlin, and at the same time talked with Abramovich and a number of other interesting people ... Including the creators of some financial pyramids like "Tibet".
            Believe me, all these are people from the government, people appointed by the government and authorized by it.
            And they received all their assets just like that - for free, or at "loans-for-shares auctions", under which they received government loans.
            This is CORRUPTION.
            CORRUPTION born of power.
            And they really
            Quote: roll
            To limit risks, alternate airfields, normal citizenship and raising children outside the parents' plantation are used.

            yes
            Quote: roll
            2. Corruption limits the insanity of power in a natural way

            No, corruption is naturally limited today in China, before here - under Stalin, and here's another good example of Hong Kong.
            This is a manifestation of the immune system of the state and society.
            This is the most natural and natural way to curb corruption.
            At the same time, I have great respect for people who have built their business honestly and have reached financial and social heights.
            1. roll
              roll 15 January 2021 09: 01
              -1
              Russian patriotism is a religion, and, moreover, it is a one-sided religion of fools, requiring serious sacrifices from its adherents, but not only giving nothing in return, but even promising nothing. ... So I would venture to disagree with your statement about your irreligiousness.

              If we really remember the 90s, then I remember the briefcase in which they wore a denyuzhka then inconspicuous and very helpful, and now your king and master. :))) This is simple corruption that I protect - and then I steal. And the distribution of assets was an unsuccessful attempt to break the tradition of power-ownership.

              Under Stalin, there was a completely normal level of corruption, and not only corruption, I really respect Stalin, for which he destroyed so many communists, intelligence officers and other communists, he repaid a hundredfold to lovers of foreign land and factories with slave collective farm labor for sticks and a criminal offense for absenteeism or attempt change jobs without permission.

              It is also impossible not to note his success in destroying the village and halving the birth rate. He successfully expanded the evil empire (and then only thanks to the cursed Roosevelt), but also laid the necessary foundations for its destruction. Not to mention a strong reduction in the population of the demographic overhang and the education of the inhabitants of the core of the empire of the necessary imperative "if only there was no war."

              And so the only question is that a corrupt Hitler is better than an honest one. A thieving Hitler official is better than a disinterested one, etc. So corruption in Russia is a deterrent to insane actions of the authorities and their excessive strengthening, i.e. factor is positive and necessary.
              1. bayard
                bayard 15 January 2021 17: 16
                0
                Quote: roll
                now to your king and master.:

                Not a king and not a master. Yes, along the way, and not the one whose name is. But this is already a matter of conspiracy theorists.
                And you described your doctrine and work to "contain Russia" well.
                1. roll
                  roll 18 January 2021 20: 24
                  -1
                  He is now your king and master (and then a helpful rat), now a lifelong Elbass, everything is like in hot black Africa, in its central part. Well, or everything is like in Central Asia, if this comparison is closer to you, the same at 80% "for", in Uzbek.

                  And why do you consider the activities of the now popular cattle breeder in the Russian Federation (as in Mongolia Chingiz-Khang) work to contain? On the contrary, he expanded the pasture without at all restraining himself with the loss of his herd, brutally forced his slaves to love the Motherland and bring bloody sacrifices to this useless idol ... :)))
                2. bayard
                  bayard 18 January 2021 21: 47
                  -1
                  But you have some funny pastoralists. laughing
                3. roll
                  roll 20 January 2021 10: 34
                  0
                  They are the owners of your flock. The current bald Elbasa is especially cool. You have a lousy master ...
      2. George Davydov
        George Davydov 24 March 2021 16: 49
        0
        Or maybe it's these?

        https://www.liveinternet.ru/users/6326443/post430608811
        KHABAD LYUBAVICH: PLANS FOR RUSSIA SUBMITTED THE GENUINE TEXT OF MENACHEM M. SCHNEERSON'S SPEECH
        A Slav, a Russian, can be destroyed, but never conquered. That is why this seed is subject to elimination, and at first - to a sharp reduction in its numbers.
        2. The planet is experiencing intense climate warming. The desert moves northward at a speed of 10 km per year, land dehydration - 25 m per year. Already now the ancient centers of the world - Athens, Rome and, most importantly, Jerusalem (Israel) fall into the zone of artificial irrigation only. In 20-30 years, it will be necessary to think about the resettlement of huge masses of civilized peoples to the north of their current residence. By that time, in the Kuban, in the Rostov region, in Ukraine, there will be an amazing subtropical climate, and in the Black Earth Region and in the north of Ukraine - the climate of today's Ciscaucasia. If we recall history, then we must admit that these lands are the original lands of the ancient Jewish Khazaria, that is, Israel, captured by Kievan Rus in the XNUMXth century. The Slavs are temporary guests and are subject to eviction.
        We will return this territory and create on these fertile lands the Great Khazaria - a Jewish state, as we created Israel 50 years ago, pushing the Palestinians out. Some of the Israelis will move here, and we will drive the Slavic far north, beyond Moscow. There will be a small northern territory - a reservation with a compact population, a reservation similar to the Indians in America. "
  • Cyril G ...
    Cyril G ... 8 January 2021 11: 59
    -2
    Are you so sure that the fleet is critical for us to fight Japan?
  • Vadim237
    Vadim237 8 January 2021 15: 21
    -9
    And strategic aviation, which, if something happens, will bring down more than 800 cruise missiles at the first call to Japan, and the Japanese are not fools in the course, and they are also aware that the existing ships of our small Pacific Fleet have anti-ship missiles with nuclear warheads.
    1. SovAr238A
      SovAr238A 8 January 2021 20: 08
      +10
      Quote: Vadim237
      And strategic aviation, which, if something happens, will bring down more than 800 cruise missiles at the first call to Japan, and the Japanese are not fools in the course, and they are also aware that the existing ships of our small Pacific Fleet have anti-ship missiles with nuclear warheads.


      How many planes are you going to carry 800 KR on ???
      How many of them are in the ranks?
      How long can a strategist flying from Engels with a full suspension of missiles in the direction of Japan be able to fly?
      Answer these questions yourself ...
      And then eat your cap, and your hat at the same time ...

      Provided that if there is such a danger for the Japanese, they will be able to destroy our entire military infrastructure 500 km inland.
      And air defense systems and radars and airfields ...

      Who will accompany the strategists and where will AWACS and Refuellers take off from?

      Fly out as 30 strategists. without fighter cover, radar, even on their own territory?
      1. Cyril G ...
        Cyril G ... 8 January 2021 21: 26
        -7
        Quote: SovAr238A
        that if the Japanese were in such a danger, they could destroy our entire military infrastructure 500 km inland.


        They just have nothing. We have about 60 percent of the state of the combat ready. That is, 11 Tu-160 and 40 Tu-95. Rocket salvo - 400-450 CR.
        1. SovAr238A
          SovAr238A 8 January 2021 21: 37
          +2
          Quote: Cyril G ...
          Quote: SovAr238A
          that if the Japanese were in such a danger, they could destroy our entire military infrastructure 500 km inland.


          They just have nothing. We have about 60 percent of the state of the combat ready. That is, 11 Tu-160 and 40 Tu-95. Rocket salvo - 400-450 CR.


          Again.
          How long does a strategist fly with external suspensions?
          no more than 3-4 thousand km.

          How long does it take to prepare the Tu-160?
          64 hours.

          They have 150 IB F-15J upgraded to the F-15E level with Lrasm and Jasm-EP.
          And another 50-60 F-2.

          15 AWACS aircraft.
          Refuellers will also help them.

          dozens of Mk-41 destroyers, from which you can launch Tomahawks without any problem.
          Get 500-600 missiles from the Americans at the right time - they can.
          don't underestimate the Japanese.

          The regrouping of our forces to the far east will take several days.
          During this time, the Japanese will be able to completely clean out the entire transport, energy and military infrastructure 2000 km deep into our borders.
          and will not invade.
          Destroy the continental infrastructure and take the islands. Controversial in international opinion.
          And we will have nothing to "fight" these islands with - the nearest airfield is 2000 km away.
          There are no roads, no energy. No fuel
          Nobody presented the Turks for the seizure of the territory of Syria, no one presented Azerbaijan for the seizure of the disputed territory.
          And they will not be shown.
          And since they will not invade the Far East, no one will present them either.
          1. Cyril G ...
            Cyril G ... 8 January 2021 21: 50
            0
            Again.
            How long does a strategist fly with external suspensions?
            no more than 3-4 thousand km.

            You are wrong, to put it mildly - about 8 thousand min., And first ask how far the rockets fly.

            How long does it take to prepare the Tu-160?
            64 hours.

            Where did you get this from?

            They have 150 IB F-15J upgraded to the F-15E level with Lrasm and Jasm-EP.
            And another 50-60 F-2.

            LRASM for your information in nature is less than a hundred units from a word in general and not in Japanese. And at the same time ask how many Tomahawks the Japanese have.

            Nobody presented the Turks for the seizure of the territory of Syria, no one presented Azerbaijan for the seizure of the disputed territory.
            And they will not be shown.

            The Japanese have no legal rights to the Kuril Islands at all. So if we destroy DESO with a cannonball in the adjacent waters and there will be no problem ...
            1. SovAr238A
              SovAr238A 8 January 2021 22: 13
              0
              Quote: Cyril G ...
              Again.
              How long does a strategist fly with external suspensions?
              no more than 3-4 thousand km.

              You are wrong, to put it mildly - about 8 thousand min., And first ask how far the rockets fly.

              How long does it take to prepare the Tu-160?
              64 hours.

              Where did you get this from?

              They have 150 IB F-15J upgraded to the F-15E level with Lrasm and Jasm-EP.
              And another 50-60 F-2.

              LRASM for your information in nature is less than a hundred units from a word in general and not in Japanese. And at the same time ask how many Tomahawks the Japanese have.

              Nobody presented the Turks for the seizure of the territory of Syria, no one presented Azerbaijan for the seizure of the disputed territory.
              And they will not be shown.

              The Japanese have no legal rights to the Kuril Islands at all. So if we destroy DESO with a cannonball in the adjacent waters and there will be no problem ...


              Nuclear strike again ...
              The San Francisco Peace Treaty was not signed by the USSR.
              Accordingly, the acceptance of these islands into the USSR, in fact, officially and documented without any legal confirmation.
              Here is such a legal conflict.
              They are, in fact, now "drawn".
              Why Stalin did this is unknown.
              But now we are reaping the benefits.


              With external suspensions, no more than 3000-5000 km.
              Humble yourself.

              Whence about 64 hours - I read the factory newspaper about the heroism of putting the Tu-160 into operation and the results achieved by the heroic efforts of the pilots and factory workers. And how they halved the figure ... By the way, the figure is relatively consistent with similar American aircraft. so it's not too much. and further. To prepare the Tu-160 for a long flight, it needs about 16 highly specialized vehicles as part of the BAO. Sharpened specifically for him. Accordingly, they need to be transferred to other airfields in advance.

              I wrote about Tomahawks - they are not. but they will be given ...
              For the Americans will not miss such an opportunity ...
              will share.
              And LRASM will share and JASM-EP will also share ...
              1. Cyril G ...
                Cyril G ... 8 January 2021 22: 32
                -4
                Quote: SovAr238A
                With external suspensions, no more than 3000-5000 km.
                Humble yourself.


                We have already reached 5000 km, make an effort on yourself and get a real range, and not a figure you fantasize. Really 7-8 thousand km with 14 cruise missiles

                Here is such a legal conflict.
                They are, in fact, now "drawn".

                There is no need to tell a fairy tale, if it were so, no one would recognize the bowels and resources of the ocean in the center of the Sea of ​​Okhotsk as Russian.

                but they will be given ...
                For the Americans will not miss such an opportunity ...
                will share.
                And LRASM will share and JASM-EP will also share ...


                Storyteller.

                Whence about 64 hours - I read something like a factory newspaper about the heroism of putting the Tu-160 into operation and the results achieved by the heroic efforts of the pilots and factory workers. And how they have halved the figure ... By the way, the figure is relatively consistent with similar American aircraft. so it's not too much. and further. To prepare the Tu-160 for a long flight, it needs about 16 highly specialized vehicles as part of the BAO. Sharpened specifically for him.


                You got it all mixed up as always ..... Understand at the same time what the long-range aviation commandant's office is
                1. SovAr238A
                  SovAr238A 9 January 2021 00: 05
                  +3
                  Quote: Cyril G ...
                  long-range aviation commandant's office


                  3000-3500 for Tu-95 - humble yourself.
                  64 hours in the factory newspaper of the Kazan aircraft plant.

                  share ...
                  Do you know how much the radius of the Tu-22 with a pair of suspensions decreases?
                  Exactly up to 1200 km radius ...

                  I'm not a storyteller. I'm realist...

                  And the storyteller is you ... the storyteller-hat maker ..
                2. The comment was deleted.
        2. roll
          roll 11 January 2021 09: 21
          -1
          These islands are worthless. Yapas will not fight for useless stones. All disputed islands were given to China, incl. Demyanskiy, here too it was necessary to agree, otherwise there are many ambitions, but no brains.
    2. George Davydov
      George Davydov 24 March 2021 16: 50
      0
      Or maybe it's these?

      https://www.liveinternet.ru/users/6326443/post430608811
      KHABAD LYUBAVICH: PLANS FOR RUSSIA SUBMITTED THE GENUINE TEXT OF MENACHEM M. SCHNEERSON'S SPEECH
      A Slav, a Russian, can be destroyed, but never conquered. That is why this seed is subject to elimination, and at first - to a sharp reduction in its numbers.
      2. The planet is experiencing intense climate warming. The desert moves northward at a speed of 10 km per year, land dehydration - 25 m per year. Already now the ancient centers of the world - Athens, Rome and, most importantly, Jerusalem (Israel) fall into the zone of artificial irrigation only. In 20-30 years, it will be necessary to think about the resettlement of huge masses of civilized peoples to the north of their current residence. By that time, in the Kuban, in the Rostov region, in Ukraine, there will be an amazing subtropical climate, and in the Black Earth Region and in the north of Ukraine - the climate of today's Ciscaucasia. If we recall history, then we must admit that these lands are the original lands of the ancient Jewish Khazaria, that is, Israel, captured by Kievan Rus in the XNUMXth century. The Slavs are temporary guests and are subject to eviction.
      We will return this territory and create on these fertile lands the Great Khazaria - a Jewish state, as we created Israel 50 years ago, pushing the Palestinians out. Some of the Israelis will move here, and we will drive the Slavic far north, beyond Moscow. There will be a small northern territory - a reservation with a compact population, a reservation similar to the Indians in America. "
  • TermNachTer
    TermNachTer 8 January 2021 17: 46
    -11%
    Japan is now repeating the mistake of Russia in 1904-05. Happy journey and success))))
    1. Sanichsan
      Sanichsan 10 January 2021 20: 42
      -2
      good day hi
      Quote: TermNachTER
      Japan is now repeating the mistake of Russia in 1904-05.

      IMHO rather own jamb 1930-45. they again rely on a wunderwaffe and highly skilled personnel that cannot be quickly replenished in case of loss. with modern means of detection, they will not even be able to arrange a second pearl harbor, and everyone knows how pearl harbor ended by 1945 request
      like a lot of beautiful things, but the bottom line is zilch.
      1. TermNachTer
        TermNachTer 11 January 2021 00: 10
        +1
        It is possible that samurai are now repeating two of their mistakes at once. I agree with your point of view. Well, let's wish them luck in their hopeless venture.
  • Akuzenka
    Akuzenka 8 January 2021 20: 22
    0
    The Japanese fleet is superior to ours, can we build a fleet like Japan does not have in the near future What saves us nuclear weapons
    We cannot. Old technologies have been lost, and new technologies are not being developed in comparable volumes. There is no political will. The scenario of the Japanese attack on the Russian Federation is simple - an attack. While "ours" will threaten nuclear weapons, the Americans and "all progressive humanity" will declare that the use of nuclear weapons is unacceptable, and if applicable, the Americans will protect their ally (that is, at least confiscate the money of "our" oligarchs) and that's it, Russia back down. A piece of territory has been lost, a precedent has been created for the seizure of territories from the Russian Federation. It remains to persuade China to stand on the sidelines. If they want, they will persuade them, make concessions or promise a piece of land. Yes, I forgot, the genocide of the Russians will begin in the lost territories.
    1. bayard
      bayard 9 January 2021 01: 06
      +1
      Actually, for such cases, the Military Doctrine has prescribed an algorithm, and moreover, quite recently. But what about the will ... the last couple of years have largely discouraged ... the gasket is not the same.
      1. Akuzenka
        Akuzenka 11 January 2021 14: 10
        +1
        Actually, for such cases, the Military Doctrine has prescribed an algorithm, moreover, quite recently.
        Registered. And there is a countermeasure plan. But with the execution how? I doubt it is smooth. I had the misfortune to be convinced that on paper, a rapid response company exists and their technology is the most modern. In real life, BMP-1, with the remnants of a motor resource at 15 o'clock and trained "peshe on engine" crews. About shooting, censorship will not work. I think that the scale is not limited to this one company. There is nothing to say about more complex technique. The parade is one thing, reality, another.
        1. bayard
          bayard 11 January 2021 14: 40
          +3
          Quote: AKuzenka
          ... In real life, BMP-1, with the remnants of a motor resource at 15 o'clock and trained "peshe by machine"

          That's why the Army "from the Sovka" was rescued in 2008 \ 2009. , from the best cadres who were still taught properly ... And they got a generation gap (+ closed military universities and a refusal to recruit cadets for 5 years), incompetent leadership and recruitment ... of graduates of military departments, motorists and naval gunners for operational work (combat control) in air defense.
          As I say, the gasket is not the same.
          Between the steering wheel and the seat.
          "It's not the bobbin at all
          the "wise men" sit in the cockpit.
          They are not concerned with defense, but with the Army as an attribute of power.
          And that means PARADES.
          PARADES (!) - the main purpose of the existence of the Army.
          And the Fleet.

          And - PR !!! On the invincibility of the Army with 280 thousand l / s in the Ground Forces.
          But in Rosgvardia - 350 thousand!
          That's where the concern for safety comes in.
          From the Pechenegs, Polovtsians and other fairy-tale characters.
    2. makmak
      makmak 9 January 2021 19: 08
      0
      those. at least the money of "our" oligarchs will be confiscated) and that's it, the Russian Federation will back down.
      please specify why it didn’t “back down” with the Crimea, but it will go with the Kuriles?
      1. Akuzenka
        Akuzenka 10 January 2021 22: 47
        0
        please specify why it didn’t “back down” with the Crimea, but it will go with the Kuriles?
        Because we agreed in advance. As in 08 08 08. And the active side was the Russian Federation, not Ukraine. And the West was not so consolidated then.
        1. makmak
          makmak 11 January 2021 11: 51
          0
          Clear. Rusal, for example, (where the West squeezed out the oligarch's money) was also apparently in the agreement on the Crimea. And now, when the consolidation of the West is only "growing", and relations between the US and China are "strengthening", and there are more and more companies like RusAl, will it be impossible to "agree in advance" and that's it?
          1. Akuzenka
            Akuzenka 11 January 2021 14: 04
            0
            And what does RusAl have to do with it? Described the principle. If you want to bring to specific individuals, analysis, bring. Or Rusal, belongs to you? Then I am furious with you in advance. laughing
            1. makmak
              makmak 11 January 2021 14: 24
              0
              Yes, Alexander, examples from life with RusAl, Crimea, etc. have nothing to do with your described principle and do not confirm it, but refute it, as a theory that does not correspond to reality laughing .
              1. Akuzenka
                Akuzenka 11 January 2021 14: 29
                0
                Well, why ?! We saw such a picture in the situation with the Crimea! Only the injured party was 404. And their oligarchs were clearly promised to squeeze their property in the Russian Federation (which was done with regard to the most ardent ones), and those who kept silent were left. Only the Japanese are not spineless American mats, like 404, but quite "toothy" samurai, they remember the victories over the Republic of Ingushetia and the defeats from the USSR. And they yearn for revenge and have for this not words, but modern military equipment and trained highly motivated soldiers.
    3. napalm
      napalm 9 January 2021 23: 47
      0
      Most likely, you won't even need to persuade. Anything that is not done against the Russian Federation is beneficial for China in the future.
  • vvp2412
    vvp2412 14 January 2021 21: 17
    -1
    Wake up all the fenders! Russia is a land power! Japan is an island nation that has a heated debate with China over rocky islands!
    Any attack on Russia will be answered with nuclear weapons. Why do we need a fleet, like the United States, if we are not going to fight around the world like they do?
  • shrus79
    shrus79 13 March 2021 16: 40
    0
    Oil, first of all, oil, Toyota is beautiful. The dumplings are unmatched, with horseradish just fine, and wasabi is often a mixture of horseradish, mustard and green food coloring.
  • Doccor18
    Doccor18 8 January 2021 08: 23
    +5
    Quote: Alexander Galaktionov
    The Japanese have a good fleet

    Very good, and in the near future we will have nothing to oppose. And if wars from the east are decided on an amphibious operation in the southern Kuriles, bad consequences await its inhabitants. Our fleet will be physically unable to hold back this onslaught, then it is necessary to strengthen the ground forces on Kunashir and Shikotan to the maximum. If the defenders of the islands manage to hold out for a couple of weeks, then options for maneuvers are possible ... But if the islands fall rapidly, then it will be extremely difficult to return them ...
    1. antivirus
      antivirus 8 January 2021 09: 24
      -24%
      extremely DIFFICULT - they will restore Tokyo. 10 years after decontamination.
      many heroes look into their pockets, where there are few medals for coyness. but you need to know about the PAYMENT OF THE PEASANTS FOR THE POSSESSION OF NWO IN THE MIDDLE 20 V.
      EVERYTHING IS ALREADY (WEAPON) EXCEPT INTER-COLLECTIVE ROADS AND MODERN STORES IN SUZDAL AND POCHINKOVSKY PARADISE.
      ADD 10-50-150 RURAL AREAS IF YOU KNOW LIFE NOT IN FAR GARRISONS, BUT IN RURAL RUSSIA.
      besides the revival of the GLAVPUR, the special officers also have work to control the l / s, otherwise a lot of Napoleons get divorced, where can they be kept? observe simple proportions of the economy in the host country, if you don’t like your homeland.
      I willingly believe about 9 bans - but sometimes I need to take my soul away. a week later, the Turkish troops will write about the Sukh Put and the Navy, and it will be necessary to create an equal grouping in the Krasnodar Territory - only against the Turks.
      what I do not understand in the editorial policy of VO.
      1. Escobar
        Escobar 8 January 2021 09: 59
        +3
        I heard that the Japanese have all the prospects of creating their own nuclear weapons, I would not want to deactivate Vladivostok
        1. AUL
          AUL 8 January 2021 11: 13
          +12
          Quote: Eskobar
          I heard that the Japanese have all the prospects of creating their own nuclear weapons

          I won’t be surprised if these are not only prospects ... Given their secrecy with regard to armaments.
        2. Cherry Nine
          Cherry Nine 8 January 2021 11: 54
          +14
          Quote: Eskobar
          I heard that the Japanese have all the prospects of creating their own nuclear weapons

          "Prospects"? Japan - manufacturer nuclear reactors and 2-3 place in space. Japanese nuclear weapons are a matter of a purely political decision, several months of work at most.
          Quote: Eskobar
          I would not like to deactivate Vladivostok

          Do not worry. Most likely, the Chinese friends will ask the Japanese not to bomb their Outer Manchuria too much.

          But Moscow ... Nobody will object to Moscow.
          1. Sling cutter
            Sling cutter 8 January 2021 11: 55
            +3
            Quote: Cherry Nine
            But Moscow ... Nobody will object to Moscow.

            I do not mind! good drinks
          2. timokhin-aa
            timokhin-aa 8 January 2021 14: 55
            +11
            Japanese nuclear weapons are a matter of a purely political decision, several months of work at most.


            9-10 months. "We considered, we know (c)"
            1. CTABEP
              CTABEP 8 January 2021 15: 42
              +1
              Well, somehow it's still optimistic. Although, if there is already accumulated weapon-grade plutonium, it probably is. But, yes - they have no technological problems in that direction.
              1. Saxahorse
                Saxahorse 8 January 2021 19: 18
                0
                Quote: CTABEP
                Although, if there is already accumulated weapons-grade plutonium, it probably is.

                What plutonium? This is the day before yesterday .. The plutonium warhead is for the poorest and most needy in terms of technology. It is extremely inconvenient to store and use. In addition, it is short-lived.

                I don't think Japan can be classified as a technologically poor country.
                1. CTABEP
                  CTABEP 9 January 2021 11: 23
                  +2
                  And what do we currently have BCH on?
                2. vadimtt
                  vadimtt 12 January 2021 13: 30
                  0
                  I'm even afraid to ask, what are the "lousy" warheads doing now? laughing
                  1. Saxahorse
                    Saxahorse 12 January 2021 22: 41
                    0
                    Quote: vadimtt
                    I'm even afraid to ask, what are the "lousy" warheads doing now?

                    Lithium deuteride, tritium to taste, U235 detonator. laughing
                    1. vadimtt
                      vadimtt 13 January 2021 14: 06
                      0
                      Oh, well, that's how I can say that modern thermonuclear warheads are made of polyethylene and I will be 100% right laughing And where is uranium in a thermonuclear charge, and even 235 and in a detonator? From the very beginning there was polonium, then in general they switched to pulsed neutron tubes with titanium deuteride. What is now - a secret sealed with seven seals. And the lighter, as it was made of plutonium, remained laughing
          3. Vadim237
            Vadim237 8 January 2021 15: 38
            -7
            Japanese nuclear weapons are a matter of a purely political decision, several months of work at most. Aha a few months where they will take tens of thousands of gas centrifuges to enrich Uranium. Beryllium in the required quantities. As soon as they declare their creation of nuclear weapons, the same USA will immediately overwhelm them with sanctions.
            1. Cherry Nine
              Cherry Nine 8 January 2021 15: 53
              +6
              Quote: Vadim237
              As soon as they announce their creation of nuclear weapons, the same USA will immediately overwhelm them with sanctions.

              Actually, only the United States is being held. Although, given recent events, it is not very wise to rely on the United States. And what about the sanctions - if the Japanese authorities restrain themselves from talking about the ashes of Hiroshima, which knocks on the hearts, then no one will lift a finger. Something not particularly worried about the sanctions India and Pakistan.
              Quote: Vadim237
              Aha a few months where they will take tens of thousands of gas centrifuges to enrich Uranus

              It's pretty funny to hear that. You see, Japan has a highly developed mechanical engineering industry. In this it is similar to another country, which, according to the Russian press, suffers greatly without gas centrifuges.
              USA.

              For fuel enrichment, you can call Japan Nuclear Fuel Limited, maybe they have some ideas, for plutonium, Toshiba Corporation.
          4. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
            Andrei from Chelyabinsk 8 January 2021 18: 43
            +3
            Quote: Cherry Nine
            Japan - a manufacturer of nuclear reactors

            Uh-huh. American license software
            1. Cherry Nine
              Cherry Nine 8 January 2021 23: 22
              +5
              Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
              American license software

              Are you talking about Toshiba-Westinghouse, which after the bankruptcy of Westinghouse is wholly owned by the Japanese side? Licenses, yeah.

              I understand correctly that you have "licensed production" means "he himself doesn’t cut a fig in the subject"? V.Ya. Klimov with A.D. Shvetsov spread these ideas?
              1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                Andrei from Chelyabinsk 9 January 2021 11: 23
                +1
                Quote: Cherry Nine
                Are you talking about Toshiba-Westinghouse, which after the bankruptcy of Westinghouse is wholly owned by the Japanese side?


                Quote: Cherry Nine
                Do I understand correctly that you have "licensed production" means "he himself doesn’t know a thing about the subject"?

                In principle - yes, they "flogged" so-so, which was shown by their actions at Fukushima. That is, they own certain technologies and can build something, but ...
                Generally speaking, nuclear weapons are relatively simple. And if you resist properly, Japan will make it, but it will take them not months, but years, there will be enough problems
                1. Cherry Nine
                  Cherry Nine 9 January 2021 16: 14
                  0
                  AND? At what stage of the scheme do you not see Japanese companies? Production?
                  Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                  as shown by their actions at Fukushima

                  Oh my God, it's an example. It is scary to think about what thoughts the Soviet atomic accidents might lead you to.

                  But they won't, obviously.
                  Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                  And if you push hard, Japan will make it

                  How much for the Japanese to North Koreans. Only if they turn themselves inside out.
                  1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                    Andrei from Chelyabinsk 9 January 2021 16: 27
                    +1
                    Quote: Cherry Nine
                    AND? At what stage of the scheme do you not see Japanese companies?

                    The presence of Japanese companies does not mean that they have a full cycle in the production of the same zirconium tubes, for example.
                    Quote: Cherry Nine
                    How much for the Japanese to North Koreans. Only if they turn themselves inside out.

                    Do you think North Korea has made its nuclear weapons in months?
                    1. Cherry Nine
                      Cherry Nine 9 January 2021 16: 42
                      0
                      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                      North Korea made its nuclear weapons in months?

                      And she was already an exporter of nuclear reactors and a space power when she started with nuclear weapons?
                      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                      does not mean that they have a full cycle in the production of the same zirconium tubes,

                      Well, that is, Sumitomo and Mitsubishi will not be able to enter zirconium tubes without GE? What a deep thought.
                      Is there the same scheme about Pakistani zirconium pipes?
                    2. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                      Andrei from Chelyabinsk 9 January 2021 17: 03
                      +2
                      Quote: Cherry Nine
                      And she was already an exporter of nuclear reactors and a space power when she started with nuclear weapons?

                      The United States was not a space power and was not an exporter of nuclear reactors when it developed nuclear weapons. And the ability to create a reactor and centrifuges is only one step towards the creation of nuclear weapons. Especially when you did not create this knowledge yourself, but received it as an instruction.
                      Quote: Cherry Nine
                      Is there the same scheme about Pakistani zirconium pipes?

                      I thought we were discussing Japan.
                    3. Cherry Nine
                      Cherry Nine 9 January 2021 17: 19
                      +1
                      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                      The United States was not a space power and was not an exporter of nuclear reactors when it created nuclear weapons

                      That is, if all this is not there, but there is a relatively strong desire, then it is possible to cope with the technologies of the 40s in 6 years, is such an alignment obtained? And if there is a Japanese comrade downloaded from the Internet by employees. Kuznetsov's YAB scheme - in 4 years? On the same technologies of the 40s, but not American, but Soviet? Should I recall the level of Soviet technologies or not?

                      How many, you say, years it takes for the Japanese to repeat the achievements of Comrade. Beria 70 years ago?
                      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                      I thought we were discussing Japan.

                      You seem to want to substantiate the thesis that the Japanese "incomplete" possession of one or another part of nuclear energy technologies is a problem in comparison with countries that received nuclear weapons without nuclear energy at all.

                      Generally some pretty crazy discussion. Nuclear weapons have long been the subject of interest of various wild and poor garbage dumps, starting from India. And here we are debating whether the second industrial power in the world is experiencing any technological difficulties with the possible launch of this dubious industry.
      2. Sanichsan
        Sanichsan 10 January 2021 20: 53
        -2
        Quote: Cherry Nine
        "Prospects"? Japan is a manufacturer of nuclear reactors and 2-3 place in space.


        2-3 place from the end? first, the last few years, China, second or third with varying success, Russia and the United States, and fourth the EU. Japan is somewhere among the Australians, Luxembourgers and Iranians.
        1. Cherry Nine
          Cherry Nine 10 January 2021 22: 14
          +2
          Are you a drug addict?

          First, very far away - the USA. Second or third - the European Union, Japan. Fourth, China is approaching this group. Fifth-sixth, far from China - India, Russia. This


          The Chinese cannot yet, but they will do it after some time (ZhengHe, discussed at 2032, starting in 2024). The Americans have already made their own (OSIRIS-REx). Roscosmos will never do it.
          1. Sanichsan
            Sanichsan 10 January 2021 22: 29
            -4
            Quote: Cherry Nine
            The Chinese cannot yet, but they will do it after some time (ZhengHe, discussed at 2032, starting in 2024). The Americans have already made their own (OSIRIS-REx). Roscosmos will never do it.

            olo garage! we did it in 1959, and your "second or third place" only ripened 60 years later! wassat
            but, as they say, "to whom the mare is the bride" request
            1. Cherry Nine
              Cherry Nine 10 January 2021 22: 49
              0
              You shouldn't trump with illiteracy and laziness. Not only did you not understand what is in the picture, but you also did not take the trouble to google the names that are given in the last paragraph.

              The USSR has never made return missions to deep space. And Russia will never do.
              1. Sanichsan
                Sanichsan 10 January 2021 23: 05
                -3
                Quote: Cherry Nine
                The USSR has never made return missions to deep space. And Russia will never do.

                Yes Yes. patriots do not know what of course they know better what Russia will do and what will not. wassat
                Quote: Cherry Nine
                You shouldn't trump with illiteracy and laziness.

                hike this applies to you in full.
                Quote: Cherry Nine
                Not only did you not understand what is in the picture

                perfectly understood. it is an automatic station. the USSR began to launch them since 1959. and the soil from the moon was delivered by automatic stations. where is the breakthrough then? flew to the asteroid? so they are not the first. maybe your "second third place" has its own inhabited space station? no? sadness request maybe at least your own module on the ISS? again no? belay and how many launches are there per year? 4? and how many satellites are displayed? also 4? how many foreign satellites? zero? belay
                Well, for a patriot, no one knows what, this is really "second third place"! no!!! first !!! wassat
                Quote: Cherry Nine
                Are you a drug addict?

                you notice laughing scorch bully
                1. Cherry Nine
                  Cherry Nine 11 January 2021 00: 43
                  0
                  Quote: SanichSan
                  Yes Yes. patriots do not know what, of course, they know better what Russia will do and what will not

                  For this, it is enough to be interested in what is happening in the industry.
                  Quote: SanichSan
                  perfectly understood. this is an automatic station

                  Japanese Moon 16?
                  Your understanding of the level of development of space programs is understandable.
                2. alexmach
                  alexmach 11 January 2021 15: 26
                  0
                  so they are not the first. maybe your "second third place" has its own inhabited space station? no?

                  Hmm .. and who has it in our time?
                  maybe at least your own module on the ISS? again no?

                  Uh ... M ...
                  The Japanese Experimental Module ("Kibo") (Japanese 冀望 kibo :, "hope") is a module of the International Space Station. Scientific research laboratory. The largest ISS module.
                  ...
                  The first component of the module was installed on the ISS on March 14, 2008
                3. Sanichsan
                  Sanichsan 12 January 2021 23: 35
                  -2
                  Quote: alexmach
                  The Japanese Experimental Module ("Kibo") (Japanese 冀望 kibo :, "hope") is a module of the International Space Station. Scientific research laboratory. The largest ISS module.

                  missed hi above Iran climbed good but they can't fly there anyway request
                  and this does not change the fact that the Japanese space program is much more modest than the Chinese, American, Russian and even European wink to declare that after the launch of the automatic station, Japan took first place in astronautics - this is beyond the bounds of sanity! yes
      3. roll
        roll 11 January 2021 09: 25
        0
        The USA is the first, the second is China, the third is Russia / India / EU, the rest are well behind.
  • antivirus
    antivirus 8 January 2021 12: 53
    -1
    who will cross the threshold of fear first;
    1. Gvardeetz77
      Gvardeetz77 8 January 2021 16: 09
      +4
      Quote: antivirus
      who will cross the threshold of fear first;

      Are we going to heaven? ©
      1. Akuzenka
        Akuzenka 8 January 2021 20: 29
        +7
        Are we going to heaven? ©
        Of course. Putin promised it. As well as not raising the retirement age while he is president. And much more. The TV will endure everything.
      2. roll
        roll 11 January 2021 09: 26
        0
        If you believe Putin in everything, then yes, but in real life it is not at all a fact ...
  • roll
    roll 11 January 2021 09: 23
    0
    It is believed that they need from 3 to 6 months for nuclear weapons.
  • Doccor18
    Doccor18 8 January 2021 11: 08
    +20
    Quote: antivirus
    extremely DIFFICULT - they will restore Tokyo. 10 years after decontamination.

    Well, yes, Tbilisi is still being decontaminated, since 2008 ... And it would be more convenient to cover international terrorists in Syria with a megaton bomb, once and all at once ... And Beijing will not get away from the "radioactive waste" to this day, since 1969 of the year...
    Quote: antivirus
    ... in a week the Turkish troops will write about the Sukh Put and the Navy and it will be necessary to create an equal grouping in the Krasnodar Territory - only against the Turks.

    There must be a principle of reasonable sufficiency! The Pacific Fleet does not need parity with the Japanese fleet in terms of the number of pennants, it needs to have a reasonable number of combat-ready ships that, with the help of coastal defense, the MPA and the Air Force, were able to repel a sudden hypothetical strike. The same is with the Black Sea Fleet and Turkey ..

    As for "peasants, rural roads and cowsheds", other departments should deal with these issues ... But here, after all, the MILITARY OVERVIEW ... hi
    1. antivirus
      antivirus 8 January 2021 12: 59
      -1
      money is given to the military from the activities of cowsheds and car services, taxes. Or is there a golden vein that the construction battalion picks with picks?
      Shoigu (?): "This is all mine, it will go to 10 aircraft carriers of 100 VIT each"

      protection of the wealth of Russia (????) - ordered by conditional bankers. they see perspectives and speak with the GDP and the hands of the country about profits and "partner visits", as "a star with a star says"
      military only executors (and military-industrial complex).
      1. Doccor18
        Doccor18 8 January 2021 13: 32
        +5
        Quote: antivirus
        money is given to the military from the activities of cowsheds and car services ...

        Well, there are a lot of car services ... True, what taxes they deduct there, I can't say, not in the subject. But from the cowshed, you turned it down ... Livestock farming in our country moved the oil industry with deductions to the state budget ...
        Quote: antivirus

        Shoigu (?): "This is all mine, it will go to 10 aircraft carriers of 100 VIT each"

        Even more fun good
        One will not be built. And if they do, then they will be procrastinating for 30 years ...
      2. Akuzenka
        Akuzenka 8 January 2021 20: 36
        +2
        Protection of the wealth of Russia (????) - ordered by conditional bankers. they see perspectives and talk to the GDP and the hands of the country about profits and "partner visits", as "a star with a star says"
        military only executors (and military-industrial complex).
        You are right here. But no one has yet canceled the deception on the part of "Western partners" and "our elite", and just agents of influence. Well, in intelligence, people also serve, "express the interests of the ruling class," I think that they do not forget themselves. So everything is not as rosy as we would like. Read how the "elite of RI" behaved on the eve of and during WWI, how they broke up the rear, how they traded through intermediaries with the Second Reich, how they spread in front of the "allies" and what this resulted in. You will immediately understand why RI was not among the winners and why it was not. The funny thing is that the Bolsheviks are out of business here. And compare how "our elite" behaves now. I don’t know about you, I’m scared.
        1. antivirus
          antivirus 8 January 2021 20: 44
          0
          Oak tree ... Russia is our Motherland ... death is inevitable ...
  • Eug
    Eug 8 January 2021 10: 21
    +4
    MPA as an option, while the jap fleet is leaving the bases en masse ... but we must be able to concentrate the MPA on the theater of operations as soon as possible, together with tankers and fighters. You can also beat Japanese nuclear power plants without using nuclear weapons. But for some reason I think that the Japanese fleet is "directed" rather to the south than to the north ...
    1. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... 8 January 2021 12: 04
      +2
      Quote: Eug
      MPA as an option, while the jap fleet en masse leaves the bases ... but we must be able to focus the MPA on


      We do not have MRA, we have 37 air army, which includes 16 Tu-160, 60 Tu-95MS and 60 Tu-22M3. That's how many are combat-ready, question. I guess about 60 percent
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 8 January 2021 15: 41
        -8
        And this amount will be quite enough.
        1. Rusticolus
          Rusticolus 8 January 2021 19: 07
          -3
          And why bother the Aerospace Forces? Yapi in the reach of ground-based RSD. And if you hit where you need to, then there are not so many of them, given their population density. Any refinery, PSG or chemical plant and ten million Japs will not be up to post-fire. And for this, even TNW is not needed.
          1. timokhin-aa
            timokhin-aa 8 January 2021 23: 32
            +4
            yapi in the reach of ground-based RSD.


            An example of the Russian RSD, which can be massively used against Japan (in hundredths) in 2024-2025.
            1. Cyril G ...
              Cyril G ... 9 January 2021 07: 42
              -2
              From Nakhodka to Tokyo there are exactly one thousand kilometers. If the Japanese fleet, for the most part, is deployed to solve the anti-missile mission of the mother country, this is also good
              1. timokhin-aa
                timokhin-aa 9 January 2021 12: 47
                +3
                What kind of rocket will it be?

                The fleet is deployed there, and it will be necessary to see what, in principle, can fly through this fence.
                Maybe nothing.
  • bayard
    bayard 9 January 2021 01: 10
    +1
    For this case, the MiG-31K is deployed in Transbaikalia - for a quick reaction.
  • Oden280
    Oden280 8 January 2021 17: 03
    -5
    So what? The distance from Ukrainka to the islands is just over 1000 km. There are 17 nuclear power plants with 40 reactors and over 40 large petrochemical enterprises in Japan. Undermining at least half of the objects and where will the quick-eyed break? War is not a wall-to-wall fight, to be honest. The beat will be the one that will guarantee the destruction of the Japanese.
    1. Most kind
      Most kind 8 January 2021 18: 43
      +4
      The emperor of Japan, and his time did not give a shit about the bombing of civilians, this topic was touched upon only because of the factories that did not produce aircraft, so you shouldn't raise these topics in vain, but about a small defeat in the war, yes. Also, from the history of our coexistence, it is the Japanese who can cut out without exception all the inhabitants of villages and cities, therefore, no partisans, and due to the outflow of the population, call on a significant number of reservists, fire at the range, and then send them to war quickly will not work, we have garrisons on The Far East is small, most of it was reduced, the mob potential is small, there is NATO from the west, from the east the Americans and the Japanese, where they will throw the army, in the 40s of the last century there were no satellites and if the Japanese knew what the true number of troops in the USSR at that time the result could be different, but now there is a visa, a master card and cell phones, so you can find out how much, where and when to move very quickly, just as you can listen to any phone while being somewhere in decaying California, there, by the way, the former mayor of Khabarovsk sokolov warms up , rots alive, since the equipment on the towers is either Western or Chinese, the element base is all of them. Therefore, catching an aircraft carrier group in the ocean is much more difficult than a military unit on land, satellite reconnaissance. But when it all starts, that's another story, but the world needs a war, and everyone is tormented by historical moments, and someone is worried about the future, so this is certainly great about heaven, but there are nuances. Amers, French, Chinese, Israel and many others also have vigorous weapons, but no one brandishes them, they are probably modest, so we try to talk about him at every turn, there is nothing more about the campaign, that is, Kalash and Satan are all ours? Then it's an ass.
      1. Oden280
        Oden280 8 January 2021 21: 06
        +1
        The emperor of Japan must live somewhere else. They scattered like cockroaches from a leak from the Fukushima reactor, but if all 40 explode? Chernobyl with Hiroshima in the bargain will seem like a childish fairy tale, and from above chemical emissions from enterprises. The trouble with Japan is its too high population density and dependence on external supplies.
        And what about catching the land unit on the transfer, then you apparently did not serve in the army and do not know that there are a lot of ways to ensure the secrecy of movements.
      2. alexmach
        alexmach 8 January 2021 21: 27
        0
        Amers, French, Chinese, Israel and many others also have vigorous weapons, but no one brandishes them, they are probably modest, for which we try to talk about him at every turn

        Well first, read Trump's tweets. Or the clever statements of Israeli politicians.
        And secondly, we, too, not that we would swing too much. We are the couch strategists here at VO, we are trying, but in general ... well, once the president of the cartoon about Florida showed it, and once more he spoke vividly. And this, in my opinion, is the first time since the boot knock at the UN.
    2. SovAr238A
      SovAr238A 8 January 2021 20: 13
      +2
      Quote: Oden280
      So what? The distance from Ukrainka to the islands is just over 1000 km. There are 17 nuclear power plants with 40 reactors and over 40 large petrochemical enterprises in Japan. Undermining at least half of the objects and where will the quick-eyed break? War is not a wall-to-wall fight, to be honest. The beat will be the one that will guarantee the destruction of the Japanese.


      Why don't you count backwards?
      How much from Japanese airfields to our facilities?
      They can safely clean everything up. that inside Russia is one and a half thousand kilometers ...
      And even two thousand.
      And they have enough tankers and AWACS planes ...
      And they have an agreement with the Americans.
      And we will already be at war with the whole world and go to paradise ...
      1. Oden280
        Oden280 8 January 2021 20: 56
        -1
        They have nothing to clean. They have no means of destruction so as not to enter the zone of our air defense. And our airfield network is simply stupidly wider in the territory. Including in the North. And mattress toppers will never be harnessed for them. They want to live.
        1. SovAr238A
          SovAr238A 8 January 2021 21: 18
          +2
          Quote: Oden280
          They have nothing to clean. They have no means of destruction so as not to enter the zone of our air defense. And our airfield network is simply stupidly wider in the territory. Including in the North. And mattress toppers will never be harnessed for them. They want to live.


          What's in the north?

          And what did Bongo / Linnik write about the actual state of the airfield network in the Far East?


          nothing to clean up?

          They've got plenty of BPD ...
          And they will be given a few hundred more for this occasion.

          Get 500-600-1000 Tomahawks from the USA - they can easily.
          And they can be launched just as easily. There are plenty of carriers.

          On the Japanese coast, 150 recently upgraded F-15Js are concentrated with new Afar antennas and updated weapons up to the JASSM-ER that fly almost 1000 kilometers. And the F-15J itself is long-range and multipurpose. with outboard tanks and a pair of JASSM-ER, they will certainly be able to arrange a combat radius of 1200-1400 km ... Now it is an analogue of the F-15E.
          And almost 15 active AWACS aircraft will be able to provide control in the air and possibly even electronic warfare / electronic warfare.
          Not counting another 60 pieces of F-2. With a combat radius of 800 kilometers, if without hanging tanks.

          and destroy them first:
          Fleet and air defense support facilities, airfields.
          all objects of generation and distribution of electricity, water supply and fuel ...
          all bridges, aqueducts.

          And the entire military infrastructure at a distance of up to 2000 kilometers from the coast in the event of a prepared strike, after the destruction of the fleet - will be.
          Fleet. the only thing. what could delay them.
          1. Oden280
            Oden280 9 January 2021 10: 17
            -5
            F-15 glows on the radar for 500-600 km. They will be drawn on takeoff, especially since there are few airfields. And the probability of hitting this plane, even from the Thor, is 0,9. At Khakaevs, the range of the equipment will not allow them to control the actions of fighters and not get into the air defense zone. They were shot down in the 80s by the 200s. And there are 13 of them in total. And in general, throwing an extremely few and not the most modern aviation on a multi-echeloned air defense system is from the category of suicide against the wall.
          2. your1970
            your1970 9 January 2021 10: 52
            -1
            Quote: SovAr238A

            and destroy them first:
            Fleet and air defense support facilities, airfields.
            all objects of generation and distribution of electricity, water supply and fuel ...
            all bridges, aqueducts.

            And what will her majesty say to this - the World Exchange ????
            And she will say the following:
            "I'm falling!!!! ".....
            After that, World Capital will rip out the Adam's apple to the Japanese emperor for a couple of minutes. And in a couple of minutes the USA will issue a statement -
            "That the US categorically DOES NOT support Japan's actions. Moreover, the US demands an immediate cessation of hostilities from Japan."

            And this is not a yumara joke ...

            Shares in Japanese industry will fall to zero - in anticipation of a nuclear strike by the Russian Federation on Japan ... And no one will rush to buy them.
            This will end the invasion - capital will force
        2. alexmach
          alexmach 8 January 2021 21: 29
          +1
          They have no means of destruction so as not to enter the zone of our air defense

          Come on, seriously? No cruise missiles or ballistic missiles?
          1. Oden280
            Oden280 9 January 2021 10: 06
            -3
            No. Especially ballistic.
            1. alexmach
              alexmach 9 January 2021 12: 31
              +1
              Type 80 ASM-1 assorted.
              And especially take a look at the Japanese solid-fuel space program.
              1. Oden280
                Oden280 9 January 2021 14: 34
                -3
                Type 80 ASM-1. Dull g ...., type of mattress harpoon. Not applicable for shooting on the shore. The launch range forces you to enter the air defense coverage zones, if from an aircraft, or an air defense missile system, if from a ship.
                The space launch vehicle is far from being a combat rocket. There are a lot of thin sections which no one will let the Japanese realize. Especially mattresses will hinder, they are reluctant to receive a second time.
                1. alexmach
                  alexmach 9 January 2021 19: 08
                  +1
                  Type 80 ASM-1. Dull g .... like mattress harpoon

                  Not at all like our X-35 .. or wait ...

                  Again, having already 30 years of "dull shit" like Uranus, making yourself an analogue of the Tomahawk-Callibra is not a problem from the word at all.
                  The space carrier is far from a combat rocket.

                  Well, yes, after all, putting the device into space is much easier than just throwing the same mass for a couple of thousand km. Or is it not easier? For all space powers, astronautics was a by-product from the development of those very ballistic rockets. From the USSR to the USA and to North Korea. The Japanese, of course, are different.
                  Especially mattresses will hinder, they are reluctant to receive a second time.

                  We can clearly see how they hinder them. They supported them 100 years ago and will support them again. Moreover, they will give them a task. Like with the Kuriles. Only not political but already military.
                  1. Oden280
                    Oden280 9 January 2021 20: 33
                    -2
                    Indeed, it is easier to launch the device into space than to shoot into the distance. No guidance and control systems are needed for launching into space.
                    Apart from the X-35, we have enough anti-ship missiles. What does most of them have to do with the West as with the Moon with cancer.
                    Caliber is not only a cruise missile, it is a whole range of weapons for both surface targets and ground targets. Even the submarine has a missile.
                    1. alexmach
                      alexmach 9 January 2021 22: 10
                      -2
                      Indeed, it is easier to launch the device into space than to shoot into the distance. No guidance and control systems are needed for space launch

                      oh whether.

                      But all these guys probably gathered there for a beautiful shot?
                      Caliber is not only a cruise missile, it is a whole range of weapons for both surface targets and ground targets. Even the submarine has a missile.

                      Does this somehow change the fact that a country that has been producing cruise missiles for 30+ years is capable of producing an analogue of the long-range missile defense system that we have in service with almost closed eyes?
                      What does most of them have to do with the West as with the Moon with cancer.

                      Very controversial statement .. both statements.
                    2. Oden280
                      Oden280 10 January 2021 12: 34
                      -1
                      "Does this somehow change the fact that a country that has been producing cruise missiles for 30+ years is capable of producing an analogue of the long-range missile defense system that we have in service with almost closed eyes?"
                      And what doesn't it produce? In theory, being able does not mean being able.
                      Controversial, not controversial but a fact on the face. We have, they do not.
                    3. alexmach
                      alexmach 10 January 2021 16: 08
                      -1
                      And what doesn't it produce?

                      Are you so sure that they do not produce and will not get it from the stash at the right time?
                    4. Oden280
                      Oden280 10 January 2021 18: 16
                      0
                      In order to produce or extract something from the stash, it must be created and tested from the beginning. And this cannot be done unnoticed. This is not a 25 meter pistol. There are tens of kilometers.
                    5. alexmach
                      alexmach 10 January 2021 19: 27
                      -1
                      This is not a 25 meter pistol. There are tens of kilometers.

                      Yes, it is somewhat different from a pistol ... but a cruise missile flying 100 km and 1000 km is not so radically different.
                    6. Oden280
                      Oden280 11 January 2021 08: 18
                      -1
                      And the differences are radical and under the pillow you cannot experience it even for 100 km, even for 1000.
                    7. alexmach
                      alexmach 11 January 2021 09: 22
                      -1
                      What are these "radical differences"? Open the veil to the profane. I don't see any differences from the word at all. A slightly different targeting algorithm? At the same time, it is simpler in comparison with an anti-ship missile system, which has to hit a moving target rather than a stationary one? Dimensions? These are not differences. Stop empty la-la.
                    8. The comment was deleted.
                    9. alexmach
                      alexmach 11 January 2021 14: 54
                      -1
                      Should you be involved in someone else's education? Have you coped with your own? At least to the extent that the rules of the forum to master.
                    10. The comment was deleted.
                    11. The comment was deleted.
                    12. The comment was deleted.
  • makmak
    makmak 9 January 2021 19: 57
    0
    I agree. And why do they compare the composition of the combat fleet of the Pacific Fleet and the list of Japan. Let's compare the Battle Fleet Yap. And listed in China. Or built in 10 years. From the point of view of the Japanese, you can think of as many horror films: we will start with the Russians, and the Chinese will finish us off.
  • Machito
    Machito 8 January 2021 06: 10
    +21
    Japan presents territorial claims to Russia for the South Kuriles and is intensively building up its fleet. It takes an openly hostile position towards Russia. No wonder Klimov and Timokhin sound the alarm, because the situation with our fleet is very similar to the RI fleet before the RYAV.
    1. Alexander Galaktionov
      Alexander Galaktionov 8 January 2021 06: 13
      +16
      And rightly so, Klimov and Timokhin sound the alarm yes
    2. Alexander Galaktionov
      Alexander Galaktionov 8 January 2021 06: 19
      +3
      The Balts also make territorial claims
      1. Machito
        Machito 8 January 2021 06: 26
        +4
        The Balts do not have a fleet, and generally have nothing, except for sex tourism for the Germans and Swedes.
        1. Alexander Galaktionov
          Alexander Galaktionov 8 January 2021 06: 48
          +2
          The Baltic states have land borders with us, But consider Kaliningrad surrounded
        2. Most kind
          Most kind 8 January 2021 18: 48
          -1
          For the Balts of NATO, they are under an umbrella, so it's sad. Are you ready to fight NATO? On two fronts? From the east and west? Where will you transfer the army? It is optimal for us. That is, on one front, but when from two sides.
          1. Machito
            Machito 8 January 2021 18: 58
            +2
            We had an optimal army under Alexander Nevsky. Since then, a lot has changed, so for the last 500 years we have armies in all directions. There is no other way.
            1. Most kind
              Most kind 8 January 2021 19: 02
              -2
              You will sound this thesis in the Primorsky Territory and on the Kuril Islands, somewhere between the hills, the Chinese will applaud you while standing
              1. Machito
                Machito 8 January 2021 19: 58
                +1
                It is alarming for the Kuriles, but China is not yet aggression against us, there is still time to strengthen Primorye. Before the New Year, our and Chinese strategists flew around Japan together. Something like this.
    3. Crowe
      Crowe 8 January 2021 06: 25
      +16
      Unfortunately, in terms of surface missile ships, our Pacific Fleet is already inferior to the Japanese Navy. for the country, they say, it's enough and "rook" poachers to drive, and we can always cope with enemy ships and "balls" and "calibers" with "zircons".
      1. Alexander Galaktionov
        Alexander Galaktionov 8 January 2021 06: 47
        +5
        I will say my opinion, the Americans can send the Japanese navy against China, plus China and India also have graters, and both have nuclear weapons. The fleet is needed so far, apart from corvettes and frigates, we cannot strengthen it for boats.
      2. Machito
        Machito 8 January 2021 07: 03
        +12
        The Japanese fleet surpasses KTOF not only in surface ships, but also in submarines. Complete superiority with the exception of nuclear weapons. And then there is South Korea and, as you rightly noted, the 7th US Navy. If they wish, they can block our fleet in ports, as in Port Arthur, and without the start of a nuclear war, we will not be able to go to sea.
      3. shkiper83
        shkiper83 9 January 2021 15: 43
        +1
        Yes, in the sense already ???? For at least 10 years
    4. Vadim237
      Vadim237 8 January 2021 15: 43
      0
      These ships do not have any serious strike weapons - only the Gorpun anti-ship missile and their own anti-ship missiles with a range of 400 kilometers are subsonic.
      1. Machito
        Machito 8 January 2021 16: 03
        +4
        Quote: Vadim237
        These ships do not have any serious strike weapons - only the Gorpun anti-ship missile and their own anti-ship missiles with a range of 400 kilometers are subsonic.

        But their number of pennants is several times higher than KTOF. If they attack first, like Port Arthur and Pearl Harbor, do we have enough anti-aircraft missiles to fight back? Or is our proud Varyag not surrendering to the enemy to the bottom?
      2. SovAr238A
        SovAr238A 8 January 2021 20: 21
        +6
        Quote: Vadim237
        These ships do not have any serious strike weapons - only the Gorpun anti-ship missile and their own anti-ship missiles with a range of 400 kilometers are subsonic.


        So our subsonic Caliber and Uranus are power, and the enemy's subsonic Harpoon and Type90 suck?
      3. timokhin-aa
        timokhin-aa 8 January 2021 23: 35
        +5
        It remains to remember how many times our ships have fired at targets over the past twenty years, with EPR and Harpoon flight altitude.
        At the Pacific Fleet - zero.
        1. makmak
          makmak 9 January 2021 21: 00
          +2
          Yes, and in the Baltic, Odintsovo shot at parachute targets and was put into service. But there is no Zaslon, of course. I wonder how the Japanese shoot? Maybe there is a video, for comparison?
  • Usher
    Usher 8 January 2021 06: 10
    -24%
    I just mentioned in another article about people like Damatsev and here
    How many people know that Japan is serially building submarines with lithium-ion batteries as a single source of energy for underwater navigation?
    I just want to shout, MANY! We got these "all-propals" and advisers. Without this article, everyone already knows everyone. There are no secrets here. Home-grown "truth-bearer". And by the way, what is this single source of energy? They also charge batteries, which is a verbal pun for those who are in the subject. Instead of silver-zinc batteries, they are the same as on smartphones and laptops. Very expensive and it is not yet known how their safety is. Everyone probably saw the videos of how batteries explode https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTlp_Iky22M and writes about traditions in the third person. Suspicious)
    1. Santa Fe
      8 January 2021 06: 26
      +12
      And by the way, what is this single source of energy?

      Throughout the rest of the world, diesel-electric submarines with an air-independent installation use a stirling engine or electro-chemical generators in a submerged position.

      An unnecessary source of noise and dangers on board
      and it is not yet known how they have security.

      No more dangerous than German type 214 or Israeli Dolphins with reserves of liquefied hydrogen
      1. Usher
        Usher 8 January 2021 10: 52
        -9
        Quote: Santa Fe
        And by the way, what is this single source of energy?

        Throughout the rest of the world, diesel-electric submarines with an air-independent installation use a stirling engine or electro-chemical generators in a submerged position.

        An unnecessary source of noise and dangers on board
        and it is not yet known how they have security.

        No more dangerous than German type 214 or Israeli Dolphins with reserves of liquefied hydrogen

        Do you even understand what this is about? Diesel-electric submarines is not an air-independent installation, if anything. In short, if it's a diesel-electric submarine like the Yap, then the source of energy is diesel fuel and batteries. Where is the single source then? You here do not arrange confusion for me in terms. This I mean that the author is talking nonsense, he himself does not understand.
        1. Cyril G ...
          Cyril G ... 8 January 2021 14: 37
          0
          Quote: Usher
          This I mean that the author is talking nonsense, he himself does not understand.


          Quite right. Lithium-ion batteries are not a perpetual motion machine, and even if the boat travels one and a half to two times longer with the same volume of batteries, a source for generating energy must be on board. Whether it is diesel, Stirling or a reactor ... Moreover, it is already known about 2 submarines on lithium-ion batteries that burned. American small sabotage submarine and our AS-31
          1. Santa Fe
            8 January 2021 16: 44
            +5
            Lithium-ion batteries are not a perpetual motion machine,

            The goal of the Oryu project was to provide performance at the Stirling submarine level with only batteries.

            Just like Tesla on the road
            a source for generating energy must be on board. Is it diesel

            Surfaced, like everyone else
            Stirling or reactor ..

            No Stirling, only batteries
        2. Santa Fe
          8 January 2021 16: 38
          +4
          Diesel-electric submarines is not an air-independent installation, if anything.

          Diesel submarine without VNEU time spent under water without surfacing - several days

          Diesel submarine with Stirling or an electrochemical generator increases this period to 20 days

          The Japanese have only batteries under water, with characteristics at the level of boats with VNEU

          Diesel engines are used everywhere for recharging and movement on the surface, this is understandable
          1. Usher
            Usher 8 January 2021 19: 05
            -4
            Quote: Santa Fe
            Diesel-electric submarines is not an air-independent installation, if anything.

            Diesel submarine without VNEU time spent under water without surfacing - several days

            Diesel submarine with Stirling or an electrochemical generator increases this period to 20 days

            The Japanese have only batteries under water, with characteristics at the level of boats with VNEU

            Diesel engines are used everywhere for recharging and movement on the surface, this is understandable

            Then why the hell have you written a single source of energy? I can't understand this.
            1. Santa Fe
              8 January 2021 19: 50
              +3
              submarines with lithium-ion batteries as a single source of energy for underwater passage

              What else needs to be explained here
              1. Usher
                Usher 8 January 2021 23: 22
                -3
                Quote: Santa Fe
                submarines with lithium-ion batteries as a single source of energy for underwater passage

                What else needs to be explained here

                Got it.
    2. SovAr238A
      SovAr238A 8 January 2021 20: 23
      +4
      Quote: Usher
      Everyone probably saw the videos of how batteries explode https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTlp_Iky22M and writes about traditions in the third person. Suspicious)


      The Japanese have spent almost 40 years on improving the reliability of lithium batteries for their submarines ...
      We were engaged in one task ...

      And the fact that they put them in the end means that they considered the problem solved.
  • Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Kote Pan Kokhanka 8 January 2021 06: 17
    -1
    What to say! Thank you, although everything is not clear. At a minimum, Japan must be informed, if there will be a conflict, it will result in the use of nuclear weapons in the mother country !!! Although I don’t know, will it stop - is it the Japanese revanchists?
    1. Vladimir_2U
      Vladimir_2U 8 January 2021 07: 13
      +7
      Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
      At a minimum, Japan needs to be informed, if there will be a conflict, it will result in the use of nuclear weapons in the metropolis
      Such things are prescribed in the unclassified part of the military doctrine of the state, and we have only this:
      as well as in the case of aggression against the Russian Federation using conventional weapons, when the very existence of the state is threatened.
      ... So the likelihood, with all the nuclear weapons, Russia will again become semi-Sakhalin non-zero, unfortunately.
  • Comrade
    Comrade 8 January 2021 06: 33
    -1
    Hmm, reading this alternative got it wrong with the author. In the course of reading I thought that Skomorokhov, but no ..
    Victory in the Russo-Japanese War earned the Japanese the title of major naval power. However, Japan's line fleet consisted of 100% battleships built abroad. Exactly half of them (6 out of 12) were deprived of warranty service and required serious investments to bring them into combat readiness.

    Announce the entire list of battleships, please!
    All twelve out of four.
    After the fall of Port Arthur and the volleys of Tsushima, the Japanese captured, raised from the bottom and restored 17 warships of the Russian Imperial Navy, among which were the Varyag and six battleships.

    The squadron battleships Retvizan, Poltava, Pobeda, Peresvet, Emperor Nicholas I, Oryol and the coastal defense battleships General-Admiral Apraksin, Admiral Senyavin.
    Total eight battleships.
    Armored cruiser "Bayan", cruisers "Pallada", "Varyag" and "Novik".
    Total three cruisers.
    Mine cruisers "Horseman" and "Gaydamak".
    Torpedo boats "Strong", "Resolute", "Troubled".
    Eight years later the captured ships were put under fire from 356-mm guns of the Congo-class battle cruisers.

    It's too much.
    In October 1915 (ten years later) battle cruisers "Kongo" and "Hiei" sank only "Emperor Nicholas I", the rest of the captured warships suffered a different fate.
    For example, "Varyag", "Poltava" and "Peresvet" were sold to Russia, "Bayan" was sunk by naval aviation in 1932.
    1. Santa Fe
      8 January 2021 07: 21
      +9
      A total of eight battleships.

      Of these, for their intended purpose - in the form of ships of the linear fleet, only 6 continued to serve

      The main attention was paid to the Russian battleships, four of which ("Retvizan", "Pobeda", "Peresvet" and "Poltava") lay on the seabed, and two ("Emperor Nicholas 1" and "Eagle") were afloat, having insignificant damage. The ink on the peace treaty signed in September 1905 had not yet dried out, and all the sunken battleships were raised, hastily repaired and headed to Japan for modernization on their own. In 1908, six captured Russian battleships became part of the Japanese fleet, receiving new names. For example, "Retvizan" began to be called "Hizen", "Peresvet" - "Sagami", "Victory" - "Suvo", "Poltava" - "Tango", "Eagle" - "Iwami", and the oldest "Emperor Nicholas 1 "-" Iki ". It is curious that of the 12 battleships that drove the striking power of the Imperial Japanese fleet at that time, exactly half were on the former Russian ships.
      A total of three cruisers.

      The majority of the public is only interested in the Varyag
      This is still a review article with a limited volume of words, and not a detailed monograph about the trophies of the RYAV

      Thank you for your additions! hi
      1. Comrade
        Comrade 9 January 2021 04: 15
        +5
        Oleg, judging by the number of "minuses" under my comment, you have many admirers.
        These people draw information from your articles, not even suspecting how much false information there is. We are not talking about the subtleties that might interest only subtle connoisseurs and experts, we are talking about elementary things.

        Well, here you write,
        Quote: Santa Fe
        Of these, for their intended purpose - in the form of ships of the linear fleet, only 6 continued to serve

        The "Retvizan", "Oryol" and "Poltava" were included in the fleet as battleships (a year later, "Poltava" was transferred to the category of coastal defense ships of the 1st class).
        "Pobeda" and "Peresvet" were credited as coastal defense ships of the 1st class.
        "Emperor Nicholas I", "General-Admiral Apraksin" and "Admiral Senyavin" were enlisted as training and artillery ships.
        As you can see, in 1909 only two of eight (and not six, as you write) the Japanese were ready to use the battleships as battleships.

        Let's move on.
        Quote: Santa Fe
        In 1908, six captured Russian battleships became part of the Japanese fleet, receiving new names

        First, the Japanese fleet included not six, but all eight battleships, only in different qualities.
        Secondly, the Port Arthur battleships were renamed by the Japanese not when they were brought into the fleet, but when they were raised. That is, in 1905.
        Thirdly, in 1908 only four Port Arthur battleships entered service.
        The Japanese commissioned the "Eagle" a year earlier, in 1907, and the "Emperor Nicholas I", "General-Admiral Apraksin" and "Admiral Senyavin" entered service in the Japanese fleet in 1905.

        Quote: Santa Fe
        It is curious that of the 12 battleships that drove the striking power of the Imperial Japanese fleet at that time, exactly half were on the former Russian ships.

        And this is not true.
        In 1908, the Japanese had six battleships of the 1st class, of which the former Russians were there only two - "Eagle" and "Retvizan".
        Quote: Santa Fe
        This is still a review article with a limited volume of words, and not a detailed monograph about the trophies of the RYAV

        This is true, but even superficial information should not be false.
        Quote: Santa Fe
        Thank you for your additions!

        Not at all.
        drinks
  • Magic archer
    Magic archer 8 January 2021 06: 34
    +14
    So to speak. The Pacific Fleet is in dire need of reinforcement. The Japanese are ahead of us in almost everything. I will reveal the open secret. If desired, samurai will create YOUR Yao extremely quickly. And there are carriers. Coupled with a powerful fleet of destroyers (which we have no analogues) plus an aircraft carrier fleet (which we have absolutely no) and of course submarines. Which, unfortunately, are also superior to ours. There is still no VNEU, and you won't go far on Varshavyanka. No matter how like the last century already. And yes, you can at least cast aside cons, do not care. The truth that no one likes, unfortunately remains true. hi
    1. Alexander Galaktionov
      Alexander Galaktionov 8 January 2021 06: 51
      +1
      On the ships detain, on this I think and strengthen with Balami da Bastion
      1. SovAr238A
        SovAr238A 8 January 2021 20: 26
        +3
        Quote: Alexander Galaktionov
        On the ships detain, on this I think and strengthen with Balami da Bastion


        Balam and Bastions - you need cover and target designation.

        There will be no fleet - there will be no target designation, no cover.

        And balls and bastions will become pumpkins.
        1. Alexander Galaktionov
          Alexander Galaktionov 8 January 2021 21: 12
          -1
          Bal and Bastion have radar target designation, and about cover, yes, they need to cover them.
          1. SovAr238A
            SovAr238A 8 January 2021 21: 30
            +3
            Quote: Alexander Galaktionov
            Bal and Bastion have radar target designation, and about cover, yes, they need to cover them.

            As long as there is a fleet, they cover, there will be no fleet - the DB zone will go closer to the borders and the air defense will be destroyed. And the cover ended.
            1. Alexander Galaktionov
              Alexander Galaktionov 8 January 2021 21: 33
              0
              Berrogovye Ball and Bastion are the last hope, therefore corvettes and frigates are needed
    2. Machito
      Machito 8 January 2021 07: 09
      +6
      Quote: Magic Archer
      So to speak. The Pacific Fleet is in dire need of reinforcement. The Japanese are ahead of us in almost everything. I will reveal the open secret. If desired, samurai will create YOUR Yao extremely quickly. And there are carriers. Coupled with a powerful fleet of destroyers (which we have no analogues) plus an aircraft carrier fleet (which we have absolutely no) and of course submarines. Which, unfortunately, are also superior to ours. There is still no VNEU, and you won't go far on Varshavyanka. No matter how like the last century already. And yes, you can at least cast aside cons, do not care. The truth that no one likes, unfortunately remains true. hi

      Just about, the situation is very alarming. Strongly reminiscent of the pre-Tsushima one. And we have rollbacks all around, but cuts.
      1. antivirus
        antivirus 8 January 2021 09: 41
        -9
        And we have kickbacks all around, but cuts - in you or in the country?
        Yapi are opponents of China. all the heroes need more money for early retirement. the capture of YKuril will not give anything - the main thing is to spin the loot in the world markets: stock exchanges, raw materials, sales of cars and coffee makers, pistols and ATGMs, galoshes (with a red lining?) and rice ... Civil aircraft and military (?) ... and cowards and smartphones? all (the World) to see through the hole in the trunk of the arts? - the level of VO becomes.
    3. arkadiyssk
      arkadiyssk 8 January 2021 10: 27
      +9
      Speaking of the fleet, do not forget about the PLO of aviation. Hundreds of anti-submarine aircraft in Japan, and almost completely updated - it is generally not clear what to cover. It's just that all diesel submarine and patrol ships of the Pacific Fleet should be deleted immediately.
    4. Bolt cutter
      Bolt cutter 8 January 2021 11: 37
      -5
      samurai very quickly create their yao
      For this they can really be persecuted by the whole world. If they create a precedent for the creation and use of nuclear weapons, then it will be very difficult for the world gendarme, who is soon to retire, first of all, to Indonesia, Egypt, Turkey, Algeria, Vietnam, South Korea, Brazil, Saudi Arabia, why they cannot, and yapam "lzya". They will create it (now it is not at all as difficult as in the forties). Then, pretty soon, we should expect such powers as Barbados and Kiribati to join the nuclear club. And this is not necessary for anyone, to put it mildly. Therefore, it can turn out like in a prison "hut" - when the lawless man is "jammed" by the whole crowd, so that there certainly would be no problems.
      1. Escobar
        Escobar 8 January 2021 12: 56
        0
        No need to pass off wishful thinking as possible
      2. Most kind
        Most kind 8 January 2021 18: 59
        +3
        No one will explain anything to anyone, have you heard a lot of explanations from them about Yugoslavia and Iraq? Everything that is trump and legal against Russia, Wada will not let you lie
        1. your1970
          your1970 9 January 2021 11: 08
          0
          Quote: Most Kind
          No one will explain anything to anyone, have you heard a lot of explanations from them about Yugoslavia and Iraq? Everything that is trump and legal against Russia, Wada will not let you lie

          And who said that the Yapi will create Yao only against the Russian Federation? The USA is not a bad steam locomotive - it is against them too ...
  • Runway
    Runway 8 January 2021 07: 04
    -4
    Is the Pacific Fleet 25-30 times inferior to the Japanese Navy in terms of the number of combat-ready steamers?
    What kind of nonsense?
    The fact that the Pacific Fleet is the Navy of the Sea of ​​Japan is yes.
    According to Senka, a hat - it is necessary to cut the fleet of the Sea of ​​Japan, forgetting about Ocean Dreams.
    1. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... 8 January 2021 12: 11
      +3
      It was impossible to have the same powerful fleet in all 4 theaters. This is a mistake, and it went back to Soviet times. However, in my opinion, the main forces should have been based in the North. But parity in all theaters of operations had to be ensured by powerful naval aviation, which is capable of performing an inter-theater maneuver with weapons on pylons. And it is important to have a developed airfield network ...
      1. OgnennyiKotik
        OgnennyiKotik 8 January 2021 12: 51
        +1
        Quote: Cyril G ...
        But parity in all theaters of operations had to be ensured by powerful naval aviation, which is capable of performing an inter-theater maneuver with weapons on pylons. And it is important to have a developed airfield network ...

        + tankers, AWACS, electronic warfare
        Given our size, it is simply impossible to provide defense capability without a developed air force. Given the trends, land / sea forces are becoming secondary, if at all tertiary
        1. Cyril G ...
          Cyril G ... 8 January 2021 13: 13
          0
          No, it's worth a little differently to arrange the aspects. Ground forces are vital for us in any case. But the fleet is tertiary ...
          Everything is correct about special aviation. We need to have at least a squadron of AWACS aircraft + a reserve squadron of central subordination in strategic directions.
          But then we should think about creating an AWACS aircraft based on the MS-21. But the Tu-204 in storage should, in my opinion, be converted into tankers. Like these 11.
          1. Alexander Galaktionov
            Alexander Galaktionov 8 January 2021 21: 24
            -1
            On the basis of Tu-214, you can think of AWACS and Anti-submarine aircraft
            1. Cyril G ...
              Cyril G ... 8 January 2021 21: 31
              0
              Need to. If Tupolev can deliver at least 6-8 cars a year. Therefore, the question is either MS-21 or Tu-160. In any case, tankers and AWACS are needed like air.
              1. Alexander Galaktionov
                Alexander Galaktionov 8 January 2021 21: 36
                0
                It was like about tankers based on Il - 96-400, but everything was still hanging on. I did not even see on the news about the transfer of the 3rd Tu 214-R
                1. Cyril G ...
                  Cyril G ... 8 January 2021 21: 40
                  0
                  Yes you are right. As I wrote above, - first, you need to buy out the Tu-204 for a penny from civilian companies that have been dumped and converted into tankers. I even have such a hypothetical model of the Tu-204 tanker ... wassat
                  1. Alexander Galaktionov
                    Alexander Galaktionov 8 January 2021 21: 46
                    -1
                    It is necessary to buy out or build new ones I don’t remember now Tu-204 was bought out like for Roscosmos
                    1. Cyril G ...
                      Cyril G ... 8 January 2021 21: 52
                      0
                      I have not heard about Tu-204. The rest is a fact. Only it is necessary to cut costs for the Navy and its moronic projects like Poseidon.
                      1. Alexander Galaktionov
                        Alexander Galaktionov 8 January 2021 21: 55
                        0
                        It is not necessary to cut costs for the Navy, how much was pledged, so much should be sent
                      2. Cyril G ...
                        Cyril G ... 8 January 2021 21: 59
                        0
                        Poseidon shouldn't be nailed to hell?
                      3. Alexander Galaktionov
                        Alexander Galaktionov 8 January 2021 22: 04
                        -1
                        Poseidon may be on the nuclear weapons program
                      4. Cyril G ...
                        Cyril G ... 8 January 2021 22: 11
                        +1
                        In fact, parallel NSNF. for us, the need for the first NSNF is highly questionable, and the fact that two nuclear submarines were sacrificed to Poseidon from the general naval forces was simply a crime.
                2. timokhin-aa
                  timokhin-aa 8 January 2021 23: 38
                  +2
                  Poseidon is not done for the Navy, but for the GUGI, and the GUGI is directly subordinate to the Ministry of Defense.
                3. Cyril G ...
                  Cyril G ... 8 January 2021 23: 48
                  0
                  So much the worse for us. In addition to pushing frank substance into service, there are also incomprehensible near-naval games.
                4. timokhin-aa
                  timokhin-aa 8 January 2021 23: 51
                  +3
                  Yes, something is rumored that Poseidon Kirdyk. It, in theory, should be "sold" to the Americans - to exchange something from them in exchange for the closure of the program, and for the other world.
                  Leave only the ultra-small reactor, this time in the long-lived version, with normal cooling.
                5. Cyril G ...
                  Cyril G ... 9 January 2021 06: 51
                  +1
                  Well if so. But two !!! The nuclear submarine was ruined !!!
                  The reactor, if it is needed reality.
                  I wrote in which case there is at least some sense in gigatorpeda. Have read for sure.
  • Termit1309
    Termit1309 8 January 2021 08: 08
    -2
    Significant achievements of the Japanese military remain outside the public domain.

    I will reveal the terrible truth. Very scary. Very very. Ready.
    The achievements of the Japanese military are unknown to the majority, because the majority are too lazy to read about them. This is the same secret as making kvass with horseradish. You can easily find a recipe on the internet, but most don't care.
    And since few people read about the Japanese Navy, you can inflict horror about Tsushima, cunning samurai technologies, mithrill hulls, and so on. tp and everything was gone.
  • tihonmarine
    tihonmarine 8 January 2021 09: 16
    +3
    Say what you like, but the Japanese learned how to build beautiful ships even before WWII, although 100 years before that they learned from Russian sailors to build sailing ships of the European type.
  • prior
    prior 8 January 2021 09: 37
    +3
    Under the leadership of you you know whom Russia is confidently becoming a country not even of the third, but of the fourth world.
  • Rurikovich
    Rurikovich 8 January 2021 10: 04
    +11
    That's a plus for this, comrade Kaptsov smile Despite a series of kinks (as usual) wink
    Push. The predominance of the yapps over us in the Pacific is mega-catastrophic. In reality, they are held back from the capture of the Kuriles by nuclear weapons, which these Russians can use. And the territory of the country is small, everything is tied up tightly, therefore even a couple of decent blows can be critical for the economy. Countries de jure are in a state of war, because if you poke (well, purely hypothetically), then a real situation is when you enlist guarantees of intervention (if anything) in the Master's conflict in order to drag out time with the Russians, take what we want with lightning speed, immediately ask about a separate world with the support of the type of the international community and the stink in the press. To agree to the payment of various benefits to the families of the victims and other economic handouts. As a result, IF the Russians do not use nuclear weapons in Hokkaido (i.e. the top turns out to be spineless), then the islands are ours. And if they answer immediately, without threats, ignore the United States, do not pay attention to the Anglo-Saxon stench, then we will return the islands back, the territory of residence will become even more compact because of the charged (albeit for a short time) territories. And again, grandiose payments of indemnities with the signing of the same peace treaty, only in favor of the Russians ...
    This is so, thinking out loud based on the real state of affairs. request
  • Usher
    Usher 8 January 2021 10: 58
    -4
    The author is unaware that this entire fleet began to rivet against China. To Sakhalin and the Kuriles, whatever they shout there, they have no legal, historical rights at all. Generally zero. But with China graters. And that is unlikely. They themselves will never attack, now is not the first half of the 20th century in the yard.
    1. timokhin-aa
      timokhin-aa 8 January 2021 14: 58
      +5
      Was it reported to you against China? The ship is a tool with a life of tens of years, it can be used against anyone, if he is.
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 8 January 2021 15: 47
        -6
        Finish thinking the Japanese are fools - they will not attack anyone; they will not have weapons for this, neither MRBM nor tactical cruise missiles.
        1. timokhin-aa
          timokhin-aa 8 January 2021 17: 37
          +4
          About ballistic missiles - here.
          https://www.vpk-news.ru/articles/59365
          и
          https://vz.ru/world/2020/8/9/1053454.html

          About the winged ones - here.
          https://военное.рф/2020/япония40
    2. The comment was deleted.
      1. Usher
        Usher 8 January 2021 23: 25
        -1
        Quote: SovAr238A
        Quote: Usher
        The author is unaware that this entire fleet began to rivet against China. To Sakhalin and the Kuriles, whatever they shout there, they have no legal, historical rights at all. Generally zero. But with China graters. And that is unlikely. They themselves will never attack, now is not the first half of the 20th century in the yard.


        ...
        That is how mentally militantly underdeveloped a person is ...
        Have you been to schools?
        Have you read the Russian-Japanese treaties?
        Who before the Russians lived in these territories - read?

        I read it, you probably haven't read it. I read everything. There was no scent of Japanese, there lived locals, the Ainu. They are not Japanese. The first agreement was just the same as now. Then the Yapas attacked and took their territories, then we returned, what is not clear? Yapi refer to the agreements that were signed after their victory, strange right? They did not consider the agreement that was in force earlier, why should we consider the agreement to which they refer to as capable after the WAR where are they the aggressors? I wrote this very superficially.
  • sevtrash
    sevtrash 8 January 2021 12: 32
    -1
    Fleet quality-quantity issues are secondary. Primarily - the economy, the level of the technological order, according to which Russia is two stages behind the United States, and of Japan too. The creation of a system of power in Russia capable of ensuring the current level of the economy was not completed. Political ambitions, ineffective work in the post-Soviet space, reliance on oil and gas profits, and a total cut led to a break in cooperation with the countries of the Western world with the prospect of stagnation. For the sake of Russia's future, certain priorities and power structures need to be changed.
    1. Falcon5555
      Falcon5555 8 January 2021 13: 57
      0
      I recently made a post here that it is very interesting to compare in high magnification satellite maps (images) of google maps of the Southern smokers and the adjacent territories of Hokkaido or the smaller Japanese-owned islands off the northern tip of Hokkaido. The Japanese have a well-developed coastal line, households, artificial harbors at every turn, and here it is mostly desert. The climate is the same, the islands are about the same, but why is there such a difference?
      1. Usher
        Usher 8 January 2021 23: 27
        -2
        Quote: Falcon5555
        I recently made a post here that it is very interesting to compare in high magnification satellite maps (images) of google maps of the Southern smokers and the adjacent territories of Hokkaido or the smaller Japanese-owned islands off the northern tip of Hokkaido. The Japanese have a well-developed coastal line, households, artificial harbors at every turn, and here it is mostly desert. The climate is the same, the islands are about the same, but why is there such a difference?

        where does the climate? They have this home, backyard for us. You can compare Peter or Crimea. "well-developed coastal line, home ownership, artificial harbors at every turn" is the same. Do not confuse warm and soft. And if the backyards, this does not mean that you have to give them. If you have a yard, you won't give your neighbor's backsides?
        1. Falcon5555
          Falcon5555 9 January 2021 02: 06
          -2
          Don't confuse anything yourself. What's warm and soft there? Or it is different - one is warm and the other is soft, but not warm. laughing Cold, then. laughing The question (rhetorical, and maybe not rhetorical, but for the locals or for those who have something to say in essence) was about why such a difference. Who offers to give something to someone? You are offering? If the Kuril Islands are backyards for you, why? Maybe because if you come there from St. Petersburg or the Crimea, you will find that there is nothing there? Why is there nothing there? That was the question.
          St. Petersburg is near the Finnish border, so it is convenient to compare the border areas of the Karelian Isthmus - on this side, in essence, are the suburbs of St. Petersburg. The difference is obvious, alas.
          1. Usher
            Usher 9 January 2021 03: 44
            -4
            Quote: Falcon5555
            Don't confuse anything yourself. What's warm and soft there? Or it is different - one is warm and the other is soft, but not warm. laughing Cold, then. laughing The question (rhetorical, and maybe not rhetorical, but for the locals or for those who have something to say in essence) was about why such a difference. Who offers to give something to someone? You are offering? If the Kuril Islands are backyards for you, why? Maybe because if you come there from St. Petersburg or the Crimea, you will find that there is nothing there? Why is there nothing there? That was the question.
            St. Petersburg is near the Finnish border, so it is convenient to compare the border areas of the Karelian Isthmus - on this side, in essence, are the suburbs of St. Petersburg. The difference is obvious, alas.

            What kind of stream of consciousness, you know the meaning of the word you are confusing? It means to be confused. Clear!? You wrote with such stupid and poisonous sarcasm, look how nice and beautiful it is in Japan, but we have a desert. So I'll tell you one more time! It is a home for them, for us it is a province and hinterland. And I was there and I came from Siberia and was in the east and west. Don't bang your heel on my chest here. You are just confusing. You cannot even understand a word in the correct context. Having looked at the photos from Google Earth (I am also fond of this), you could simply say "look ahh, they are good, but we have bad ahh!" such words look disgusting. You can't even analyze. You only have someone to blame or someone. Recently I read an article where one lady thanks our airline employees so much that they went to meet her when she moved from Mexico (her husband is Mexican) to Russia. And everything seems to be nothing, but words like yours "we frantically searched for wifi, in the USA it is everywhere and free" or "ours are so sincere, but in America everything is according to the law" he is, according to your words, everywhere and free and why didn't you stay there?) and that disgusting aftertaste remains after reading. Also, your words exude one poison, no specifics. Same to me, they compared 3 economies in the world with 11 provinces of that economy. It's like wondering how uncomfortable the trunk is for sitting in a Solaris, not like the front seat in a BMW. Now it is clear what you are confusing?
            1. Falcon5555
              Falcon5555 9 January 2021 13: 14
              -1
              Yes, this is a stream of consciousness !!! Laughed heartily! laughing "Your words ooze one poison" - excuse me, but such a Novice has not yet been invented, so that he oozes with words like this. laughing And if they invented, then I do not have it. And, by the way, if there was, I would not poison anyone, unlike some others, because of which it is already dangerous to touch the "codpiece". laughing But you feel that the topic touched you for the most alive. Not even one topic, but everything! As they say, it burst ... Continue. Pour out your soul. Let's laugh ...
    2. Quadro
      Quadro 8 January 2021 15: 19
      -10%
      I see the roof of the sofa strategists is leaking. Japan is a bankrupt country, with a rapidly shrinking population, environmental problems in the same Fukushima, and complete dependence on external supplies of resources. Good luck to them to fight against the Russian Federation, and also against China, which will not silently watch the Yapas try to strengthen themselves.
      1. sevtrash
        sevtrash 8 January 2021 15: 52
        +4
        Quote: Quadro
        I see the roof of the sofa strategists is leaking. Japan is a bankrupt country with a rapidly shrinking population, environmental problems in the same Fukushima, and complete dependence on external supplies of resources.

        Well, yes, the adage "... the decaying west ..." has been around for many years and is still in honor of some. And the United States has a lot of problems and Japan too, but the standard of living is not like many. Not to mention the quality and quantity of the fleet. Power works, the economy is at the level, the people live.
      2. SovAr238A
        SovAr238A 8 January 2021 20: 36
        +6
        Quote: Quadro
        I see the roof of the sofa strategists is leaking. Japan is a bankrupt country, with a rapidly shrinking population, environmental problems in the same Fukushima, and complete dependence on external supplies of resources. Good luck to them to fight against the Russian Federation, and also against China, which will not silently watch the Yapas try to strengthen themselves.


        Do the Japanese know about your problems?
        Japan is almost the only country in the world with deflation ...

        Have you made it bankrupt? What's going on in your head ...
        1. clerk
          clerk 16 January 2021 21: 26
          0
          You simply don't understand that the inflation rate of the national currency and the country's debt (bankrupt - not bankrupt) are completely different things. Japan has one of the largest debt-to-GDP ratios in the world (EMNP 2,5 times that of the United States). They are saved only by the fact that the debt is mostly internal, so external pressure does not give in well. But the fact that the Japanese have been eating up their future for a long time is a fact.
          1. SovAr238A
            SovAr238A 17 January 2021 19: 54
            +1
            Quote: clerk
            You simply don't understand that the inflation rate of the national currency and the country's debt (bankrupt - not bankrupt) are completely different things. Japan has one of the largest debt-to-GDP ratios in the world (EMNP 2,5 times that of the United States). They are saved only by the fact that the debt is mostly internal, so external pressure does not give in well. But the fact that the Japanese have been eating up their future for a long time is a fact.

            having launched inflation, the Japanese will very quickly pay off their domestic debt ...
            You don’t understand this too corny?
            1. clerk
              clerk 17 January 2021 19: 58
              0
              I quite understand. For a country that is bankrupt, this is one of the possible solutions. Although far from the best. Another option is default
      3. VladGTN
        VladGTN 9 January 2021 00: 01
        0
        Yeah. Just about to bend. More Ukrainians (according to Russia 24), in a maximum of a month, will default and disappear
    3. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... 8 January 2021 16: 18
      -6
      Quote: sevtrash
      the level of the technological order, according to which Russia lags two stages behind the United States and Japan too.


      Tell us on your fingers what are you talking about now? There about ways and stuff ...
      1. SovAr238A
        SovAr238A 8 January 2021 20: 57
        +3
        Quote: Cyril G ...
        Quote: sevtrash
        the level of the technological order, according to which Russia lags two stages behind the United States and Japan too.


        Tell us on your fingers what are you talking about now? There about ways and stuff ...


        Well, an example on the fingers - this is an ordinary smartphone.
        We have many enterprises capable of doing:
        batteries of the same level ...
        Displays of this level, and even equipped not only with a touchscreen, but also with built-in fingerprinting ...
        And this is not only microelectronics - it is also chemistry of a level that is beyond our reach, protective glasses of the Gorilla Glass type of 5/6 generations are the most difficult task for chemists ...
        Ceramic cases - the same transcendental concept for both chemists and technologists ...
        Central processing units and memory modules of 7 nanometer process technology with huge capacity ...
        Subminiature microcircuits with all modern communication systems up to 5G ... not counting Wi-Fi, Bluetooth and navigation ...
        Also having the functionality of determining the levels of illumination, proximity, accelerometer / gyroscope, magnetometer (digital compass), barometer, heart rate, pressure ...
        Ultra-miniature optical modules capable of shooting 8K at 60 frames per second ...

        And most importantly, all this is done on an industrial scale in hundreds of millions of pieces ...
        I think. that you understand what requirements are needed for the entire industry level. so that all this could be done ...

        And most importantly, the concept of using all of the above in a single device ...


        And yes ...
        In the same America, truck drivers do not change their wheels on the track ...
        They call special services.

        This just shows the difference in mentality and usage of themes. what they work on.

        This is if you understand the analogy.
        1. Cyril G ...
          Cyril G ... 8 January 2021 21: 11
          -2
          Quote: SovAr238A
          In the same America, truck drivers do not change their wheels on the track ...
          They call special services.

          Yes, I even know how much it costs to change wheels for a trucker on the road to the USA,
          This is if you are able to understand it ...

          Quote: SovAr238A
          This is if you understand the analogy.

          And everyone does it in China. Cool. And to this day, China does not have its own adequate TRDDF for a combat aircraft, and even it will take 15 years to catch up with us if nothing is done at all ...
          1. SovAr238A
            SovAr238A 8 January 2021 21: 28
            +2
            Quote: Cyril G ...
            Quote: SovAr238A
            In the same America, truck drivers do not change their wheels on the track ...
            They call special services.

            Yes, I even know how much it costs to change wheels for a trucker on the road to the USA,
            This is if you are able to understand it ...

            Quote: SovAr238A
            This is if you understand the analogy.

            And everyone does it in China. Cool. And to this day, China does not have its own adequate TRDDF for a combat aircraft, and even it will take 15 years to catch up with us if nothing is done at all ...


            There are playgrounds in China. with low labor force.

            The entire design school is not in China.
            The machines (if you can call them that) are not made in China.
            Processor - not made in China.
            Technologists are not in China.

            Because assembly is in progress in China, China is not the owner of the technology ...


            I recently spoke with an employee of a poultry farm - for meat chickens.
            It turns out to be ultra-modern production.
            But.
            The egg is brought from Europe. That is, every chicken that is raised for meat in this factory is made from imported eggs .. Not local, but imported.
            Only imported feed.
            Imported equipment.
            And if at least one component is not what the technical process is designed for, then the whole factory simply stakes.

            It is very efficient, but it works in a complex way. Any deviation from the supply - that's all. stands up.
            and will not be able to work.

            And nobody knows. what will happen to her if suddenly.
            Or rather they know.
            The factory will stop and we will lose hundreds of tons of meat a day.
            those. Again analogy - we have production. but we do not own it and we cannot build the same.
          2. sevtrash
            sevtrash 8 January 2021 22: 36
            +2
            Quote: Cyril G ...
            And everyone does it in China. Cool. And to this day, China does not have its own adequate TRDDF for a combat aircraft, and even it will take 15 years to catch up with us if nothing is done at all ...

            May they do it sooner. Russia will catch up, but the United States is more difficult and much more difficult. China has almost immeasurable human and material resources, it has personnel, schools of construction have been created, and they have not yet split with the West.
            1. Cyril G ...
              Cyril G ... 8 January 2021 22: 46
              0
              Quote: sevtrash
              May they do it sooner.


              Clear. That is, you have no idea how it is in reality. The second critical indicator, after power, is the engine resource. Regarding the Woshan WS-10A Taihang, they started 17 years ago with an assigned, but not actual resource of 300 hours. Now, according to the Chinese, they have brought up to 1200 hours, although spiteful critics from the west sarcastically suggest that the real is not higher than 900-950 hours. If you are not aware of the AL-41 has a real resource of 4000 hours.
              1. sevtrash
                sevtrash 8 January 2021 23: 46
                -1
                Quote: Cyril G ...
                That is, you have no idea how it is in reality.

                Actually, I was talking about the future. I strongly doubt that you know what it will be like in reality.
                1. Cyril G ...
                  Cyril G ... 9 January 2021 07: 49
                  +1
                  No, but two and two are quite capable of folding. In addition, with regards to WS-10, I didn’t think twice yesterday for 17 years. This is not true. Work on it has been going on for 40 years. From the time of purchase in the west of the CFM-56 type for the liner and then copying it. Yes, the Chinese Su-27s fly not at all on Lyulkas, but on a wretched American. The result is so-so.
                  1. sevtrash
                    sevtrash 9 January 2021 15: 49
                    0
                    The Chinese for the WS-10A are talking about 1500 hours. For example, for AL31F (which the Chinese were guided by), the resource at first was generally 100 hours, then 300, with time 1500. For AL31F M1, which was put into service in 2007, the overhaul life is 1000 hours, assigned 2000.
                    Regarding the AL-41 family, you have defined it too broadly. Originally created in 1982 for the MiG 1.44, the AL-41F1 variant was developed on the basis of the AL31FP (which has been in development since 1973) with some AL-41 technologies. How old is 40-50?
                    Take, for example, the F119-PW-100 for the F-22, which began work in the early 80s, ground tests of the F119-PW-100 were carried out in February 1993, the first flight of the F-22 in 1997.
        2. your1970
          your1970 9 January 2021 11: 23
          0
          Quote: SovAr238A
          And yes ...
          In the same America, truck drivers do not change their wheels on the track ...
          They call special services.

          This just shows the difference in mentality and usage of themes. what they work on.

          This is an indicator that if an accident occurs due to a punctured wheel, the insurance will not pay NOTHING.
          Exclusively because of the dough ... Mentality and industry have nothing to do with it ...
      2. sevtrash
        sevtrash 8 January 2021 22: 27
        0
        Quote: Cyril G ...
        Tell us on your fingers what are you talking about now? There about ways and stuff ...

        Все очень просто, открываешь гугл, поиск по теме, проще Вики, потом по ссылкам и все ясно. https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A2%D0%B5%D1%85%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%B8%D1%87%D0%B5%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B9_%D1%83%D0%BA%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%B4
  • vladcub
    vladcub 8 January 2021 12: 33
    +6
    "The laying of one bottom section is accompanied by loud fanfare" unfortunately, the officials love to show off, BORED with Angloism, show off goes vertically.
    ALWAYS, officials have imitated and imitate leaders. Stalin loved the paramilitary jacket and everyone wore a paramilitary jacket. Nikita preferred a jacket and everyone got into the jacket.
    EBN loved tennis and all became tennis players.
    So it is with shipbuilding, EVERYONE wants to GIVE UP. Soon the fanfare will beat like a picture will be drawn
  • Escobar
    Escobar 8 January 2021 13: 05
    +1
    Compare the composition of the Pacific Fleet and the Japanese Navy, the Japanese and without breakthrough technologies, our fleet will be nightmarish, they will block the bases with mines from submarines, and whoever can break through will be covered from a respectful distance with modern long-range torpedoes, to which we have nothing special to answer, except that " package "on envelopes (if on the first day the aviation does not let them go to the bottom with cruise missiles, and torpedoes on envelopes 20385 (maximum 8 pieces).) An article https://yandex.ru/turbo /topwar.ru/s/154128-den-z-vojna-k-kotoroj-my-ne-gotovimsja.html
    1. clerk
      clerk 16 January 2021 20: 57
      0
      To draw conclusions based on a comparison of only fleets is the height of incompetence. Even without the use of nuclear weapons, it is possible to launch missile strikes on Japan's infrastructure (fuel terminals, power plants, railway junctions, ports, airfields, etc.), which will lead to the collapse of the economy faster, seven will suppress the coastal defense of the Kuril Islands. Again, the preparation of such an operation cannot be concealed and without the consent of the United States it cannot be carried out. And it is not a fact that the United States will agree to this - the risk of nuclear war increases too much, in general, because of a trifle.
  • iskanderzp
    iskanderzp 8 January 2021 13: 32
    +7
    Yes, the Japanese have always been in complete order with secrecy. And, in this regard, a question for those who like to scare neighbors with a "nuclear club": are you sure that the Japanese (as usual, in absolute secrecy) did not rivet themselves a couple of dozen special ammunition? With their technological level, this is never a problem ...
    1. Glory to Berkut
      Glory to Berkut 12 January 2021 17: 14
      0
      The problem is that the location of Japan at the junction of tectonic plates and the presence of nuclear weapons in Russia makes all attempts to spit even a couple of dozen special ammunition in our direction absolutely senseless. As a result, the beautiful and powerful Japanese fleet will have nowhere to bunker.
      Again, based on the location of Japan and the assumption that ships cannot capture and hold land areas, and also given the rich history of relations between the Japanese and their neighbors, it seems that this fleet is being energetically built to protect its islands from landing, and as an umbrella for missile defense / Air defense.
      Well, this is what I am thinking as an amateur. Experts do it more exciting, even if you shoot a thriller drinks
  • Charik
    Charik 8 January 2021 13: 46
    +3
    Here's your grandmother and Yuryev's day, while the corvette is sculpted and they don't know which mast to put, during this time, 10 destroyers are soldered, they are of course easier to use from the technology supervisor, and they took it with their minds, and we have, as they say, Gol is cunning for inventions
  • Undecim
    Undecim 8 January 2021 15: 28
    +7
    An owl can be seen in flight, and Kaptsov in handwriting.
    So, based on the totality of available information, the hulls of Japanese submarines are made of steel with a yield strength of 1100 MPa. The use of such materials in shipbuilding is considered problematic (on the verge of impossible), due to unsatisfactory welding qualities. However, Kawasaki and Mitsubishi Heavy Industries seem to have uncovered the secret long ago and have the necessary technology.
    Such structural steels have been produced for a long time in different countries, in Sweden - Strenx, Swebor, Finland - Miilux 400, Japan - Relia, DUROSTAT - Austria, etc. And these steels weld perfectly.
    1. Escobar
      Escobar 8 January 2021 17: 49
      +2
      Ok, where is the great and mighty in this list, where are the samples that have no analogues in the world?
      1. The eye of the crying
        The eye of the crying 8 January 2021 23: 30
        -1
        They don't see the point in deep-sea submarines.
        1. Escobar
          Escobar 8 January 2021 23: 31
          -1
          But what about Poseidon, who dives for a kilometer?
          1. The eye of the crying
            The eye of the crying 8 January 2021 23: 33
            0
            ... and gives you 100 knots of speed, right? Torpedoes will chase him, not boats.
        2. The comment was deleted.
  • Bow
    Bow 8 January 2021 15: 29
    +1
    get away from superior forces
    For some reason, in such articles they do not like to recall the frankly weak air defense of Japanese ships of those years. The same Tirpitz in terms of air defense was much more perfect than the "gloomy" Yamato. And if we recall exactly how, in the end, the latter completed his combat activities, then the backwardness of the Japanese in this respect can be called fatal.
    1. Santa Fe
      8 January 2021 17: 04
      +2
      At least 127 universal installations were installed on Japanese ships, in fact, the only norms. means against torpedo bombers in the first half of the war (valid for all sides)

      To prevent ships from being shot from low-level flight and bombing point-blank by dive bombers, MZA was used
      the Japanese have single, double, or triple 25 machine guns. Having, among other things, centralized fire control

      Air defense is worse than that of the Americans, but better than that of all other fleets of the world

      About Tirpitz) For the air defense of ships, the Germans made excellent stabilized platforms on which, for some reason, there were semi-automatic 37 mm anti-aircraft guns. Having a rate of fire several times less than Bofors

      On the Bismarck, at the stern, it was considered sufficient to have an unstabilized land commando, however, this is too early 1941
      1. Bow
        Bow 10 January 2021 18: 37
        0
        Quote: Santa Fe

        Air defense is worse than the Americans, but better than everyone else.

        You even would have looked tsiferki, for decency. On the aforementioned Yamato, this very air defense was hastily built up after (and at times), but it did not grow to Tirpitz in this regard.
        1. Santa Fe
          10 January 2021 19: 47
          -2
          What is not mature enough?
          Before the SK C / 30 anti-aircraft cannon with a rate of fire of 30 rounds per minute?))

          The number of universal anti-aircraft guns in Yamato was 1,5 times more
          1. Bow
            Bow 11 January 2021 18: 19
            0
            This is already ridiculous. From the first time you remembered the platforms and some of the guns, from the second you remembered a few more guns. But you have not yet succeeded in counting all the guns and assessing the total power of the air defense system. When you master the calculation of the entire air defense complex, we will continue.
            1. Santa Fe
              11 January 2021 20: 48
              0
              It's not even interesting to communicate further
              You're just typing meaningless messages
  • monster
    monster 8 January 2021 16: 10
    0
    Children of Amaterasu never forget, and do not forgive their enemies. For Tokyo, Hiroshima and Nagasaki, samurai will chase the Yankees, and smash, even in another world, in another galaxy. The biggest mistake in the history of the United States is nuclear strikes on the Land of the Rising Sun This error will become fatal, coffin lid.
  • Escobar
    Escobar 8 January 2021 17: 46
    +5
    They said little - did a lot
    unfortunately, we have exactly the opposite, every boat put into service is broadcast from all the irons, and what plans, what plans are announced !!
  • Selevc
    Selevc 8 January 2021 18: 03
    +1
    The article is interesting, but in my opinion, the author makes two very important points:
    1) In the first, the author for some reason reduces the likely non-nuclear conflict between Japan and Russia almost only to naval operations. But what about aviation ??? But what about the RCC ??? But what about Balls, Bastions, etc. ??? The fact is that we live in an era when a rocket hits a small target such as a bunker or a front projection of a tank. To hit a surface ship with a rocket is not even yesterday's task, but the day before yesterday !!! And any more or less large modern naval war will begin with an exchange of missile strikes.

    2) Secondly, no matter how much you fight at sea, sooner or later, in order to capture any territory, you need to land on land. Landing on the islands is the weakest part of any likely conflict with the Japanese on the islands. I hope that the Russian General Staff understands this clearly. And in order to land on any of the Kuril Islands, the Japanese landing forces will need to overcome 3 lines of missile defense of the islands !!! And if you correctly place these very lines, the islands can be given to the enemy with a lot of blood !!! And any landing still needs to be supplied and fed !!! And what if the Japanese, at the cost of heavy losses, capture a couple of Russian islands, Russia surrenders ??? It already depends on the will of the country's leadership !!! I think that by capturing and holding the islands of the Kuril ridge, the Japanese will only burden themselves with the holding of these territories, and therefore they will have much less resources to invade the continent. And if Russia does not give up, then it will have to land there !!!
    1. Santa Fe
      8 January 2021 18: 33
      +9
      what about aviation

      There is generally darkness
      You can't get so much negativity in one article

      Kawasaki P-1
      The only aircraft in the world that was originally created as an anti-submarine and naval patrol, and not a conversion from a passenger
      And first, with fiber optic in control systems

      First flight 2012, now 60 aircraft in service
  • Ratmir_Ryazan
    Ratmir_Ryazan 8 January 2021 18: 27
    +1
    Yes, Japan is a very serious adversary and this threat must be taken into account and neutralized.

    And our Pacific Fleet must be developed, as well as the air defense and missile forces and aviation in our Far East.

    In my opinion, it makes sense to combine the Pacific Fleet with the necessary ground forces of several regions and separate them into one district, like the Northern Fleet. That the leadership of the fleet better interact with the ground forces covering the bases of the Pacific Fleet from the sea, air and land.

    At the current stage, we need anti-submarine forces in the Far East, anti-aircraft and powerful air defense. And here we can get by with new minesweepers and corvettes, we already have aircraft carriers in the Pacific Fleet, and the unsinkable ones are the Kuril Islands, they need to be strengthened and strengthened by improving the airfield network.

    In my opinion, our leadership adheres to this strategy, unfortunately we cannot compete in the number of Pacific Fleet ships with the Japanese fleet, but we can make an impenetrable defense there.
    1. Svetlana
      Svetlana 8 January 2021 19: 44
      -4
      Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
      We already have aircraft carriers in the Pacific Fleet, and the unsinkable ones are the Kuril Islands

      The disadvantage of these aircraft carriers' runways is that their coordinates are fixed. Therefore, they can be hit by missiles with purely gyroscopic guidance, even without GPS and laser-microwave homing heads. For a retaliatory strike in an attack by Japan or other countries on the territory and ships of Russia (although the ship is also a territory), nuclear submarines with a massive underwater launch of Caliber, Zirkon, modified Iskander, as well as Bulava, Sinev missiles and Poseidon-type drones from the Sea of ​​Okhotsk near Iturup Islands. The depths there are sufficient for covert underwater patrolling even in a 12-mile offshore coastal zone, for example, near Dobroe Nachalo Bay. In the 12-mile coastal zone of Iturup Island, several submarines, including non-nuclear ones, can carry out combat duty at once. For example, walking one after another at a depth of 300 m in a circle with a diameter of 10 km in order to prevent an enemy submarine from entering the tail of its submarine. The distance between submarines in such an annular wake formation is selected from the range of destruction by deep nuclear weapons. At a distance of, for example, 3 km, 10 submarines will be involved in such an underwater carousel.
  • Escobar
    Escobar 8 January 2021 18: 54
    +4
    I agree with you, when the PRC army attacked Damansky Island in 1969, why, they didn’t throw nuclear bombs, as a result the island went to the PRC, despite the victory of the USSR. Right now, I think, all the more not to dare to take such a step, but about the sunken fleet they will say something like that "the ships themselves pulled out"
  • Saxahorse
    Saxahorse 8 January 2021 19: 33
    +2
    Experience is what we get when we don't get what we want.

    To be more precise:

    Experience is all that we have left when absolutely everything else is wasted .. (c)

    A rare case when I completely agree with Oleg. The Japanese have long been lighting up in full. And the conversation, "Whose Kuril Islands are there" will soon go on without us. They are still asking out of courtesy, but the reason for this is not the pitiful stubs of the Pacific Fleet, but much more serious China, which has not forgotten the Shanghai massacre to the Japanese, and is quite capable of accepting the Russian Kurils as a reason for a fight.

    However, they are working on this with might and main, I saw three articles in a week in which type "experts" express doubts about the advisability of an alliance with China.
  • Cyril G ...
    Cyril G ... 8 January 2021 21: 36
    -1
    Quote: SovAr238A
    There will be no fleet - there will be no target designation, no cover.


    In principle, you do not need a fleet for this. And there are three hundred missiles and Buki and Tunguska cover them.
  • xASPIDx
    xASPIDx 8 January 2021 23: 48
    +1
    Tell me dear, what part of the fleet can the Yapa use, so that the neighbors do not dare to drop into the light?
  • Escobar
    Escobar 9 January 2021 11: 09
    +6
    How can it save us if the stability of the NSNF is not ensured from the word at all? Not from mines, not from anti-submarine aircraft, or from modern enemy torpedoes? Just shoot from the pier. https://topwar.ru/178779-borej-bulava-zalp-ushel-no-tjazhelye-voprosy-ostalis.htmlhttps://topwar.ru/178779-borej-bulava-zalp-ushel-no-tjazhelye-voprosy- ostalis.html
  • Cyril G ...
    Cyril G ... 9 January 2021 17: 56
    0
    Quote: sevtrash
    The Chinese for the WS-10A are talking about 1500 hours.


    You can say anything you want. But foreign operators of Chinese fighters, except by the way Thunder with the Russian engine, simply do not exist. So there is no faith for the Chinese. they are lying. And the imported ones thought not a single Chinese motor pulled out more than 900 hours.
    1. The eye of the crying
      The eye of the crying 9 January 2021 20: 30
      -1
      Quote: Cyril G ...
      But there are no foreign operators of Chinese fighters, except by the way Thunder with the Russian engine is simply not there.


      Should it be already?

      Quote: Cyril G ...
      So there is no faith for the Chinese. they are lying.


      Faith is a personal matter. And the Chinese, for example, will first equip their Air Force.
      1. Cyril G ...
        Cyril G ... 9 January 2021 20: 57
        +1
        Quote: Eye of the Crying
        Faith is a personal matter.

        In this case, it is an objective factor because it is based on the analysis of our uh partners in the political process.

        Should it be already?

        Yes, either it means that their planes suck so much that nobody needs them, and the motors play a decisive role here.
        1. The eye of the crying
          The eye of the crying 9 January 2021 21: 21
          -1
          Quote: Cyril G ...
          Should it be already?

          Yes


          That is, if the "second stage engines" for the Su-57 do not appear immediately on the export Su-35s, will the Russians be breaching? smile
          1. Cyril G ...
            Cyril G ... 9 January 2021 22: 37
            0
            You have not understood anything ... although I seem to explain the elementary.
            1. The eye of the crying
              The eye of the crying 9 January 2021 23: 25
              -1
              You say that the criterion for the reality of the existence of an engine with the declared characteristics is its appearance in export fighters. This is not true.
              1. Cyril G ...
                Cyril G ... 10 January 2021 00: 04
                0
                And so too. If the Chinese had adequate engines, and the planes would go for export with a bang because they would sell cheaper, and so only Thunder is sold, and then with RD-93. Surprise yes!?. But they do not have adequate engines, and first of all, for this, the PRC does not even try to compete with us, although in many categories it competes for itself and successfully. And by the way, they signed the last long-term contract for the supply of Al-31 4-6 years ago. And they really wanted to buy Al-41. But we only supplied it with the Su-35. And in reality, copying motors is simply impossible.
                1. The eye of the crying
                  The eye of the crying 10 January 2021 00: 56
                  -1
                  Quote: Cyril G ...
                  If the Chinese had adequate engines, and the planes would be exported with a bang, because they would sell cheaper, and so only Thunder is sold, and then with RD-93. Surprise yes !?


                  No. When "Thunder" was made, there were no engines yet.

                  Quote: Cyril G ...
                  And by the way, they signed the last long-term contract for the supply of Al-31 4-6 years ago.


                  This says absolutely nothing about the existence or non-existence of new Chinese engines now.
  • xomaNN
    xomaNN 9 January 2021 22: 07
    +2
    The mentality of us and the Asians is different. We need a fact to be proud of. Even if it was about the commissioning of a raid boat. laughing
  • napalm
    napalm 9 January 2021 23: 26
    0
    The Pacific Fleet is 25-30 times inferior to the Japanese Navy. It's good that I was sitting, otherwise I would have fallen. Sad to say the least.
  • mvg
    mvg 10 January 2021 00: 33
    0
    Well done Kaptsov. Good article, plus
  • Sergey Zhikharev
    Sergey Zhikharev 10 January 2021 17: 15
    -1
    "The chef is all gone! We give the Japanese Kurils, otherwise they will take them themselves. Resistance is useless" - if, in short, the conclusion from the article.
  • misti1973
    misti1973 15 January 2021 06: 08
    0
    American battleships were no worse than the Japanese ones. And the Japanese will not capture the Kuril Islands. This is a question of Japanese internal political show-off! They themselves are constantly making claims about the Second World War, China and Korea. During the war, what was the Pacific Fleet - one name! Our politicians are just stupid now. I would give a couple of islands on certain conditions and Japan would become "closer." not American hyenas, you can deal with these. An, no, in the Kremlin, everyone is playing on a "patriotic pipe"! What's the point? This policy reminds me of the policy of Nicholas II, which ended with Tsushima :)
  • yehat2
    yehat2 16 February 2021 10: 48
    +1
    the author has not yet mentioned that Japan is the world leader in the quality of ship filling. It is with this in mind, as well as the relatively modern equipment from the United States, that the Japanese fleet should be called good.
  • SHAH
    SHAH 27 February 2021 19: 33
    0
    [i] [/ i] Japan is not a frail adversary, but an experienced and well-armed fighter. They have NO, from the word NO corruption.
    And this is a 100% guarantee of victory.
  • Bobik012
    Bobik012 8 March 2021 19: 06
    0
    Stirlitz whipped nonsense. Nonsense squealed softly ...
    Do not be like Stirlitz. One sensible idea from the author - for the sake of such a trifle as a few stony scraps of land, Japan will not risk the prospect of several Hiroshimas in the event of a full-scale invasion, and provocations using several watercraft are banally solved by coastal means. So to be afraid of all the described horror stories is no more than the elusive Joe. In the event of a military conflict, Japan's losses will significantly exceed the expected profit.
    All the beauty described above is not for us. There is a more real, very possible, and quite comparable in the number of watercrafts enemy. All this is being built for him.
    And to fight with us .... The entire territory of Japan is shot from the Russian land. Not a single Japanese cruiser is capable of reaching a populated part of Russia (well, Vladivostok. But there the air defense is comparable to the Moscow one).
    In short, the author did not intimidate me. Even taking into account the fifth column in the face of the state leadership
  • Turist1996
    Turist1996 11 March 2021 07: 40
    0
    The only thing that can really be learned from the Japanese here is that as little time as possible passes between the laying of the keel and the entry of the ship into service.

    Here I definitely agree with Oleg!
  • GBG_Belarus
    GBG_Belarus 11 March 2021 11: 13
    0
    Japan is a sea state and a navy. Russia is a continental state and it needs a land army more. And with the development of technologies, when in order to destroy the enemy's bases it is not necessary to go to him at the distance of an artillery shot, but it is possible to destroy it with the help of missiles, then the huge Russian fleet is not yet needed. Suffice it, Russia will be able, with the help of missile systems, to well thin out the Japanese fleet and destroy military ports and bases in Japan itself. The Chinese should be worried more about such a fleet.
  • EvilLion
    EvilLion 11 March 2021 13: 20
    0
    Start a nuclear conflict over such trifles?


    There will be no nuclear conflict. There will be a completely legal destruction of the aggressor's military bases with nuclear weapons, after which all Japanese ships that survive will sail for transfer to Vladivostok.
  • George Davydov
    George Davydov 24 March 2021 17: 04
    0
    There are many comments in response to the article. And of a very different kind. There are positive ones, as befits patriots and defenders of the Motherland, and there are also opposite ones. And if we talk about Japan's attack on the Kuril Islands, this must be understood - at the level of intimidation and surrender - then, as the Japanese constantly talk about, we do not have a peace treaty. And since there is no peace treaty, therefore, we must be on our guard. For Hitler, if there was a treaty, attacked, and the Japanese arranged Pearl Harbor for the Americans. Therefore, any attack by any military trough on our Motherland should be perceived as an aggressive deliberate attack, and therefore perceived as a war, and therefore the armed forces must give a worthy rebuff in the name of protecting the Motherland. And here the example of the Americans plays into our hands - on the eve of capitalization, we carried out two atomic bombings, and therefore we are already at the beginning of the war: to end it, to minimize human and material losses, as well as to force the aggressor to peace, we are simply obliged to deliver nuclear strikes against the aggressor. ... For the Great Patriotic War with its multimillion-dollar victims should not be repeated.
    YES WORLD WORLD HELLO, INCLUDING OUR HOMELAND!