Military Review

The US Navy spoke about the identified problems of anti-submarine aircraft P-8A Poseidon

39

In the US Navy, there was a problem with the operation of the P-8A Poseidon anti-submarine patrol aircraft. As it turns out, this problem is connected with the fact that after several upgrades in terms of installing new avionics (avionics), the load on the power supply system has significantly increased. It is also noted that the power of the equipment has become higher than for its previous versions, and this leads to increased heating of sensors and other critical equipment on the Poseidons.


The problem was discovered when the sensors began to give out "questionable" information. It turned out that the reason for this may be the operation at an increased temperature regime.

The US Navy, as it became known, turned to the specialists of the Meggitt company with a request to supply equipment for controlling the temperature regimes of avionics, with which problems arose on the P-8A Poseidon. A variant with the development of a liquid cooling system is requested.


The US Navy plans to re-equip several dozen of its anti-submarine Poseidons with a new cooling system. And together with the purchase of new units with avionics cooling systems from the mentioned company, the number of P-8A Poseidon will be 108.

For reference: P-8A Poseidon have been in service since 2013. Moreover, they are in service not only with the US Navy, but also with the Indian Navy, as well as the Air Forces of Britain, Australia, New Zealand and Norway. Over $ 33 billion was invested in the implementation of the program. The cost of one Poseidon (after the modernization of the avionics) today is about $ 145 million. Apparently, in connection with the installation of a new cooling system, the price of an anti-submarine patrol aircraft will become even higher.

Video of P-8A Poseidon conducting anti-submarine exercises:

39 comments
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  1. oleg-gr
    oleg-gr 5 January 2021 11: 02
    -11%
    "P-8A Poseidon have been in operation since 2013. Moreover, they are in service not only with the US Navy, but also with the Indian Navy, as well as the Air Forces of Britain, Australia, New Zealand and Norway." A wonderful way to breed suckers, sorry, customers for money. Modernization breeds modernization. So you can endlessly "upgrade".
    1. Orange bigg
      Orange bigg 5 January 2021 11: 07
      +5
      We would also use our anti-submarine aircraft. Surely this can be created on the basis of the Tu-214 / Tu-204SM. What do you think?

      Flight tests of the latest modification of the Tu-214 began in Russia.
      Three years after the signing of the contract for the supply of the aircraft. As it became known, Russian specialists began flight tests of the latest modification of the Tu-214 aircraft. The new product was developed by the engineers of the Kazan Aviation Plant, and it will be operated by a special flight unit "Russia".



      In Kazan, the next Tu-214 aircraft with registration number 64533, built by the Kazan Aviation Plant named after S.P. Gorbunova (a branch of Tupolev PJSC) .This is the 33rd Tu-214 built in Kazan and at the same time the 87th aircraft of the Tu-204/214 family

      1. Machito
        Machito 5 January 2021 12: 07
        +3
        It is high time for us to attend to PLO aviation. The adversary's boats are still diving near our borders and bases.
      2. Alexander Galaktionov
        Alexander Galaktionov 6 January 2021 04: 32
        0
        You can create, here a question for specialists, if the equipment for it is similar to that of Poseidon
      3. Bersaglieri
        Bersaglieri 6 January 2021 15: 34
        +1
        So the studies were. It is a pity that so far they have remained only on paper, because the IL-38 needs replacement for a long time.
    2. Vol4ara
      Vol4ara 5 January 2021 13: 05
      +5
      Quote: oleg-gr
      "P-8A Poseidon have been in operation since 2013. Moreover, they are in service not only with the US Navy, but also with the Indian Navy, as well as the Air Forces of Britain, Australia, New Zealand and Norway." A wonderful way to breed suckers, sorry, customers for money. Modernization breeds modernization. So you can endlessly "upgrade".

      Well, with us, it's all easier with this, you can't modernize something that doesn't exist and supply it abroad too, we're not suckers
    3. ZEMCH
      ZEMCH 7 January 2021 15: 45
      0
      Quote: oleg-gr
      A wonderful way to breed suckers, sorry, customers for money. Modernization breeds modernization. So you can endlessly "upgrade".

      There are 486 processors in avionics, there is something to upgrade))))
  2. Asad
    Asad 5 January 2021 11: 06
    +5
    I think we shouldn't worry about US spending on Poseidons!
    1. Eldorado
      Eldorado 5 January 2021 11: 10
      +3
      How worth it!
      The power load has increased due to the installation of new equipment! They had discovered our boats before, and now they will do it even better! Trust me, the Navy can solve the Poseidon power problem.
      1. OgnennyiKotik
        OgnennyiKotik 5 January 2021 11: 14
        +1
        Quote: El Dorado
        Trust me, the Navy can solve the Poseidon power problem.

        This problem can be solved by a regular repair service. They just do not want to be responsible for possible problems. Therefore, contact the manufacturer, he will conduct the necessary research and offer a solution.
      2. Grandfather
        Grandfather 5 January 2021 11: 42
        0
        Quote: El Dorado
        The power load has increased due to the installation of new equipment!

        each new generation of equipment, less power-consuming than the previous one, compare the MiG 25 and 31. one - on the "analog" - the second "semiconductor".
        1. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 5 January 2021 18: 50
          +2
          But the power of computers has grown thousands of times, and the equipment itself
          many times more.
          Poseidon is a monster packed with tools and weapons.
          He not only searches for submarines, but also drowns them if they are not at depth.
    2. Grandfather
      Grandfather 5 January 2021 11: 10
      +2
      Quote: ASAD
      I think we shouldn't worry about US spending on Poseidons!

      we are well ... no anti-submarine aircraft ... well, almost ... and no problems.
      1. OgnennyiKotik
        OgnennyiKotik 5 January 2021 11: 16
        +7
        A commission arrives at the enterprise. They check all 3 days - everything is in order, there is nothing to complain about, on the fourth day the Civil Defense and Emergencies Engineer sees - the chief inspector happily writes something near the fire shield. Fits and sees: a list of 28 points of shortcomings:
        1. The shovel on the fire shield does not hang correctly, from south to north and not vice versa
        2. Shovel stalk 2 cm shorter than the set length
        3. The color of the shovel does not match the basic tone of the shield
        4. There are scratches and chips on the shovel
        etc.
        The engineer says to the inspector - Wait a minute.
        He removes the shovel from the shield and throws it away.
        - Write - no shovel!
      2. Pechkin
        Pechkin 5 January 2021 11: 53
        +7
        Yes, our anti-submarine aviation would have their problem.
  3. evgen1221
    evgen1221 5 January 2021 11: 10
    -4
    I propose a win-win and cheap way to improve the cooling of Poseidons - to burn them once per flight at sea.)))
  4. bar
    bar 5 January 2021 11: 21
    0
    the power of the equipment has become higher than for its previous versions, and this leads to increased heating of the sensors ...
    A variant with the development of a liquid cooling system is requested.

    Which, in turn, will require additional power, etc. This music will be eternal ... lol
  5. Krasnoyarsk
    Krasnoyarsk 5 January 2021 11: 59
    0
    Well, honestly, I did not understand anything from the article.
    1. = after several upgrades in terms of installing new avionics (avionics), the load on the power supply system has increased significantly. =
    In fact, the load has increased not on the power supply system, but on the power supply (generator, AB)
    2. = It is also noted that the power of the equipment has become higher than for previous versions, =
    CONSUMPTION "equipment power" has become higher.
    3. = and this leads to increased heating of sensors and other critical equipment on the Poseidons. =
    Only the temperature sensor can heat up, and even then not from "increasing the power of the equipment"
    4. = Request for a liquid cooling system design. =
    It did not occur to the Americans that it was necessary to increase the power of the power supply unit (generator, AB) or to the author of the article?
    I tend to think that the author of the article.
    The article is not about "Poseidon", the article is about the author.
    1. iouris
      iouris 5 January 2021 12: 24
      +3
      Quote: Krasnoyarsk
      In fact, the load has increased not on the power supply system, but on the power supply (generator, AB)

      One gets the impression that you do not know the concepts.
      The load on the power supply system (SES) has increased, and not on the "power supply".
      As part of SES, one can distinguish DC SES and AC SES. The main current sources are generators, or constant frequency alternators and rectifiers. Onboard consumers are divided into categories: related to (emergency) landing and not related to landing. In case of accidents in the SES, consumers not associated with landing are automatically turned off.
      Batteries are emergency power supplies for landing consumers only and keep them running for an extremely limited period of time (maximum 20 minutes).
      An increase in power consumption of equipment, as a rule, leads to the need for heat dissipation, changes in the air conditioning and cooling system to ensure reliability.
      Also, an increase in equipment power consumption negatively affects the reliability of the on-board power supply system, because wires and generators work in more difficult conditions. At the same time, there is a decrease in the reliability (reliability and resource) of aviation generators, switching and protective equipment.
      Replacing the generator with a more powerful (and therefore heavier and geometrically large) generator means the need to make significant changes to the design of the aircraft, engine, generator drive box, replace wires with wires of larger cross-section, install new switching and protective equipment.
      1. Pete mitchell
        Pete mitchell 5 January 2021 12: 57
        +2
        Quote: iouris
        As part of the SES, one can distinguish ...

        Don't you lecture? Very accessible material convey good
        In the P-8, and so, judging by the shape of the engine covers, the gearboxes are larger than that of the progenitor. And the progenitor's heat removal from the equipment, aka the dashboard and the electrical compartment, rather modest in size, is very simple; the P-8 is probably more complicated there.
        The Russian Federation is simply obliged to think about creating such an aircraft on the basis of a decent civilian
      2. Krasnoyarsk
        Krasnoyarsk 5 January 2021 15: 26
        -1
        Quote: iouris

        Replacing the generator with a more powerful (and therefore heavier and geometrically large) generator means the need to make significant changes to the design of the aircraft, engine, generator drive box, replace wires with wires of larger cross-section, install new switching and protective equipment.

        How much more powerful and geometrically larger generator would be required?
        And the installation of a "liquid cooling system" will not require any changes in anything? And so that the wires through which the current ran more permissible, do not warm up on them, you also need to "put on" a "liquid cooling system"? I wish you success in this field.
        After the modernization, the power consumption of the avionics increased not several times, but somewhat. Will the mass-geometric parameters of the new generator greatly increase?
        Quote: iouris

        One gets the impression that you do not know the concepts.
        The load on the power supply system (SES) has increased, and not on the "power supply".

        Dear, sensors for oil pressure, fuel, temperature, etc. are included in the SES?
        And how did the load on them increase in connection with the modernization of avionics?
        And in the SES, who (what) is involved in the electrical supply of the SYSTEM? Avionics, sensors or a generator?
        1. iouris
          iouris 5 January 2021 20: 47
          +1
          Quote: Krasnoyarsk
          Dear, sensors for oil pressure, fuel, temperature, etc. are included in the SES?
          And how did the load on them increase in connection with the modernization of avionics?

          As far as can be understood, we are talking only about target detection and tracking systems (anti-submarine complex). This is a very sophisticated piece of equipment, highly critical to power quality, requiring heat dissipation and cooling.
          The "sensors" themselves are either hydroacoustic buoys (dropped in the search area), or supersensitive onboard infrared systems for detecting a substrate by a thermal trace (the difference between the trace and the "background" can be below 1,5 degrees Celsius, or magnetometers (magnetic field anomaly sensor ) or gravimeters (sensor of gravitational field anomalies) The complex is also based on powerful onboard computing systems that implement complex algorithms for recognizing extremely weak signals (compared to "noise" or "background").
          1. Krasnoyarsk
            Krasnoyarsk 5 January 2021 22: 57
            -1
            Quote: iouris

            As far as can be understood, we are talking only about target detection and tracking systems (anti-submarine complex).

            This is not clear from the article.
            This is what is written in the article - = that after several upgrades in terms of installing new avionics (avionics), it has increased significantly load on the power supply system. It is also noted that the power of the equipment has become higher than for its previous versions, and this leads to increased heating of sensors and other critical equipment on the Poseidons. =
            It turns out some kind of nonsense. If the article is from our author, then he has problems with the terms, and if the translation is from an English-language edition, then these are translation grimaces.
      3. Grandfather
        Grandfather 5 January 2021 15: 34
        0
        Quote: iouris
        Quote: Krasnoyarsk
        In fact, the load has increased not on the power supply system, but on the power supply (generator, AB)

        One gets the impression that you do not know the concepts.
        The load on the power supply system (SES) has increased, and not on the "power supply".
        As part of SES, one can distinguish DC SES and AC SES. The main current sources are generators, or constant frequency alternators and rectifiers. Onboard consumers are divided into categories: related to (emergency) landing and not related to landing. In case of accidents in the SES, consumers not associated with landing are automatically turned off.
        Batteries are emergency power supplies for landing consumers only and keep them running for an extremely limited period of time (maximum 20 minutes).
        An increase in power consumption of equipment, as a rule, leads to the need for heat dissipation, changes in the air conditioning and cooling system to ensure reliability.
        Also, an increase in equipment power consumption negatively affects the reliability of the on-board power supply system, because wires and generators work in more difficult conditions. At the same time, there is a decrease in the reliability (reliability and resource) of aviation generators, switching and protective equipment.
        Replacing the generator with a more powerful (and therefore heavier and geometrically large) generator means the need to make significant changes to the design of the aircraft, engine, generator drive box, replace wires with wires of larger cross-section, install new switching and protective equipment.

        only do not go to the "west" ... You are undoubtedly a valuable human, our resource. and teach children, you have good genes, very inclined to education.
        1. iouris
          iouris 5 January 2021 20: 48
          0
          Quote: Dead Day
          You are undoubtedly a valuable human resource, our resource

          I am not a resource, but a long-term waste material. Slag.
    2. il-z
      il-z 5 January 2021 14: 28
      0
      As it turns out, this problem is connected with the fact that after several upgrades in terms of installing new avionics (avionics), the load on the power supply system has significantly increased. It is also noted that the power of the equipment has become higher than for its previous versions, and this leads to increased heating of sensors and other critical equipment on the Poseidons.

      There is a high degree of probability that this is a translation from the original / original article / news on a foreign website. Let's assume the translation is correct and reflects what was in the source. It is not specified which sensors are overheating: flight parameters sensors (altitude, speed, roll, position, etc.), or on-board power supply parameters (voltage, frequency, current, power), temperature sensors of certain search / communication / target designation units / target determination / voltage (current) stabilization. Under the word sensor, a specialist explaining to a layman could hide any garbage in size from a coin to a block in the floor of an aircraft. And here we are breaking spears, but their sho overheats there. The infusion of dough must be justified, that's the whole story ...
  6. iouris
    iouris 5 January 2021 12: 01
    +1
    Quote: "It is also noted that the capacity of the equipment has become higher." End of quotation.
    The CONSUMPTION of power has increased.
  7. Ratmir_Ryazan
    Ratmir_Ryazan 5 January 2021 12: 30
    0
    the number of P-8A Poseidon will be 108.


    How many similar planes do we have? Will you get a dozen?
    1. DWG1905
      DWG1905 5 January 2021 13: 34
      +1
      We cannot make such a plane, you can start, but you cannot complete it. Until the regulatory framework for the ROC is changed, you don't even have to try, everything will drown in bureaucracy and formalism. There was some good material on OCD recently. To be honest, I don't even know what is needed for a military-industrial complex (military-industry) machine to work, we probably need a LPB. So you can relax. What to talk about, if we cannot quickly reschedule the day off, the procedure for approval ... And you are an aircraft with a very complex complex.
    2. iouris
      iouris 5 January 2021 20: 22
      +2
      Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
      How many similar planes do we have?

      No one.
      And it never was.
  8. il-z
    il-z 5 January 2021 14: 44
    +1
    It is also noted that the power of the equipment has become higher than for its previous versions, and this leads to increased heating of sensors and other critical equipment on the Poseidons.

    The proposal is a masterpiece for those who understand .... Its analogue can be the following proposal: It is also noted that running, unlike walking, leads to increased heating of hair in certain parts of the body and, accordingly, their accelerated loss on humans ...
    And what is the intrigue, in the next part / article in which certain parts of the body this happens and we will analyze (perhaps, I think so ...)
    1. Krasnoyarsk
      Krasnoyarsk 5 January 2021 16: 19
      -1
      Quote: il-z
      It is also noted that the power of the equipment has become higher than for its previous versions, and this leads to increased heating of sensors and other critical equipment on the Poseidons.

      The proposal is a Masterpiece for those who understand ... Its analogue can be

      Here - here .. In email. the aircraft diagram includes: power supply circuit, control circuit and consumption circuit. What circuits have increased their capacity due to the modernization? Consumption chains. It is doubtful that the power of the control circuits could be increased. And without increasing the generator power, it is impossible to increase the power of the supply circuit.
      1. DWG1905
        DWG1905 5 January 2021 17: 42
        0
        In general, if you look closely at the rather crooked translation, and the source text was probably not very good either. There are most likely two options. The first SCR of the aircraft cannot cope with the thermal radiation of the electronic equipment, because the plane was originally civilian (SCV was not designed for this) and you can't take more air from the engine. And most likely, if they let slip about the liquid cooling system (if alcohol is a valuable trophy), then we are talking about emitting equipment, this is electronic warfare equipment or a side-looking locator, communication is unlikely. And the side-looking locator is of maximum interest, along the bumps. Bernoulli is very good at catching our submarines. That's it. I think everything is in order with their electricity, they redid the gearbox and plugged in a more powerful generator, or even two. At maximum loads, the APU can also turn on. Here I am calm for them, they are doing well.
        1. Krasnoyarsk
          Krasnoyarsk 5 January 2021 18: 37
          -1
          Quote: DWG1905
          Here I am calm for them, they are doing well.

          You know, I don't really doubt the abilities of mattress design engineers either. We must give them their due. Although ours also do not slurp soup with a spoon.
        2. IL38
          IL38 5 January 2021 18: 38
          0
          Quote: DWG1905
          on the hillock comrade Bernoulli

          Not this way.
          Here
          "Standing waves. Who are they?"
          http://samlib.ru/s/semenow_aleksandr_sergeewich333/stoiachievolnu-3.shtml
  9. IL38
    IL38 5 January 2021 18: 33
    0
    The plane is good in terms of capabilities.
    Uses detection principles that I personally don't understand.
    My post two years ago.
    1. Alexander Galaktionov
      Alexander Galaktionov 6 January 2021 04: 27
      0
      How far behind Poseidon?
  10. Alien From
    Alien From 5 January 2021 18: 44
    -1
    Yes ........ the video clearly shows the 21st century ....... unfortunately IL 38 has lagged behind like that ...... forever .... (((
  11. Ratmir_Ryazan
    Ratmir_Ryazan 6 January 2021 14: 34
    -1
    No one.
    And it never was.


    But I just looked what we have from anti-submarine aircraft. We have 8 Il-38N and 46 Il-38, which are all planned to be upgraded to the Il-38N version.

    Another 24 pieces of Tu-142 of various modifications.

    So, there is something and work in this direction is also underway.