Military Review

The use of captured German machine guns in the USSR

322
The use of captured German machine guns in the USSR

Many experts specializing in small arms weapons, consider German machine guns to be the best of those used in World War II. In this case, we are usually talking about MG 34 and MG 42 machine guns. But in addition to these models, the armed forces of Nazi Germany had other machine guns of 7,92 mm caliber.


Ammunition for German machine guns


For firing German machine guns, cartridges for the K98k rifle were used. The main cartridge was considered to be 7,92 × 57 mm sS Patrone, with a heavy pointed bullet weighing 12,8 g. In a barrel length of 600 mm, this bullet accelerated to 760 m / s.

For lightly armored and air targets, the Germans widely used when firing cartridges with SmK armor-piercing bullets. At a distance of 100 m, a bullet weighing 11,5 g with an initial speed of 785 m / s could penetrate 10-mm armor along the normal. The ammunition of infantry machine guns could also include cartridges with armor-piercing incendiary bullets PmK


German 7,92-mm armor-piercing tracer cartridge

Depending on the combat mission, a cartridge with an armor-piercing tracer bullet SmK L'spur was loaded into the machine-gun belt every 3-5 conventional or armor-piercing cartridges to adjust and issue target designation. An armor-piercing tracer bullet weighing 10 g accelerated in the rifle barrel to 800 m / s. Its tracer burned at a distance of up to 1000 m. In addition to adjusting and targeting, an armor-piercing tracer bullet could ignite fuel vapor when it broke through the wall of the gas tank.

Machine guns MG 08, MG 08/15 and MG 08/18


We will start the story about German rifle-caliber machine guns with MG 08 (German Maschinengewehr 08), which was put into service in 1908 and was the German version of the Hiram Maxim system.


Machine gun MG 08

During the First World War, on the basis of the MG 08, two lightweight light machine guns were created - MG 08/15 with a water-cooled barrel, which became quite massive, and made only in small quantities (due to the end of the war) MG 08/18 with an air-cooled barrel.

These machine guns differed from the basic version with a lightweight receiver, wooden stock and pistol grip. To increase the mobility of light machine guns, a special box was developed for them, containing a belt with a capacity of 100 rounds, attached to the weapon on the right. But at the same time, the possibility of using a standard tape for 250 rounds was preserved.


Light machine gun MG 08/15

The mass of the basic modification with the machine was 64 kg. MG 08/15 weighed 17,9 kg, and MG 08/18 weighed 14,5 kg. Length MG 08 - 1185 mm. MG 08/15 and MG 08/18 - 1448 mm. Rate of fire 500-600 rds / min.


The MG 08 machine guns were massively used by the Kaiser's army in the First World War and then were in service until the defeat of Germany in the Second World War. By the early 1930s, the MG 08 was already an obsolete weapon, its use was due to the lack of more modern machine guns.

In September 1939, the Wehrmacht had over 40 MG 000 machine guns of various modifications. The Germans also got several thousand 08 mm Maxim wz machine guns. 7,92 - Polish version of the easel MG 08.


At the first stage of World War II, MG 08 machine guns were mainly used in rear units. They were available in training, reserve and security units, as well as at fixed installations in fortified areas. But after 1943 (due to the acute shortage of new machine guns at the front), one could find outdated MG 08 and MG 08/18.

However, these machine guns had one indisputable advantage. The reliable (albeit somewhat heavy) water-cooled design allowed for intense fire without the risk of overheating the barrel, surpassing more modern models in this respect.

Light machine gun MG 13


Due to their heavy weight, the MG 08 machine guns did not meet modern requirements. And in the early 30s, several promising infantry machine guns were created in Germany, more in line with the military's ideas about the weapons of mobile warfare. The first model, which was put into service in 1931, was the MG 13 light machine gun, developed using the MG 08 automation scheme.

Rheinmetall-Borsig AG specialists tried to make the weapon as light as possible. At the same time, there was a refusal from water cooling of the barrel and from a tape supply. The barrel on the MG 13 is now removable.

The machine gun was powered from a 75-round drum or a 25-round box magazine. The mass of the unloaded weapon was 13,3 kg. Length - 1340 mm. Rate of fire - up to 600 rds / min. To reduce the size of the tubular butt with a folding shoulder rest folded to the right. Simultaneously with the sector sight on the MG 13, it was possible to install an anti-aircraft ring sight.


Light machine gun MG 13, stock folded.

Although the MG 13 was in many ways superior to the standard Reichswehr MG 08/15 light machine gun, it had many disadvantages: design complexity, lengthy barrel change and high production costs. In addition, the military was not satisfied with the store power supply system, which increased the weight of the carried ammunition and reduced the combat rate of fire, which made the machine gun ineffective when firing intensively from the machine.

In this regard, MG 13 machine guns were released relatively few, their mass production continued until the end of 1934. However, individual MG 13 machine guns were used in combat until the end of World War II. To combat air targets, the MG 13 was sometimes mounted on the MG 34 machine gun.


Light machine gun MG 13 in position for anti-aircraft firing on a tripod mount.

Like other obsolete machine guns, the MG 13 was mainly used in the second line units. But (as the situation at the front worsened and the lack of regular MG 34 and MG 42) they began to be used on the front line.

Single machine gun MG 34


In 1934, the MG 34 machine gun, which is often called

"The first one".

He quickly gained popularity in the Wehrmacht and strongly pushed other samples. The MG 34, created by Rheinmetall-Borsig AG, embodied the concept of a universal machine gun developed on the basis of the experience of the First World War, which could be used as a manual machine gun when firing from a bipod, as well as an easel from an infantry or anti-aircraft machine.

From the very beginning, it was envisaged that the new machine gun would also be installed on armored vehicles and Tanks, both in ball mounts and on various turrets. This unification simplified the supply and training of troops, and ensured high tactical flexibility. Automation MG 34 worked due to the recoil of the barrel with a short stroke, locking was carried out by a bolt with a rotating cylinder.


Machine guns MG 34 on the bipod and on the machine.

The MG 34, installed on the machine, was powered by ribbons from a box for 150 rounds (Patronenkasten 36) or 300 rounds (Patronenkasten 34 and Patronenkasten 41). In the manual version, compact cylindrical boxes for 50 rounds were used (Gurttrommel 34).

There was also a store-fed option: for machine guns, the cover of the box with a tape drive mechanism was replaced with a cover with a mount for a 75-cartridge paired drum magazine Patronentrommel 34, structurally similar to the magazines of the MG 13 light machine gun and the MG 15 aircraft. The magazine consisted of two connected drums, cartridges made of which are served in turn.


MG 34 machine gun with a Patronentrommel 34 magazine.

The advantage of the store with alternate supply of cartridges from each drum (except for a relatively large capacity) was considered to be the preservation of the balance of the machine gun as the cartridges were consumed.

Although the rate of fire when powered from a drum magazine was higher, this option did not take root in the troops. Most often used belt-fed machine guns from a cylindrical 50-cartridge box. Drum magazines were not popular due to their high sensitivity to pollution and the complexity of the equipment.

MG 34 in manual version without cartridges weighed a little over 12 kg and had a length of 1219 mm. Machine guns of the first series gave a rate of fire of 800-900 rds / min. However, based on combat experience, due to the use of a lighter shutter mass on the MG 34/41 modification, the rate was increased to 1200 rds / min.

In case of overheating, the barrel could be quickly replaced. The barrel was supposed to be changed every 250-300 shots. For this, the kit included two or three spare barrels and an asbestos mitten.


MG 34 machine-gun crew at a firing position.

Although the more advanced MG 1942 machine gun was adopted in 42, production of the MG 34 continued. According to American sources, more than 570 machine guns were fired prior to Germany's surrender.

Single machine gun MG 42


For all its merits, the MG 34 was difficult and expensive to manufacture. In addition, during the hostilities on the Eastern Front, it turned out that this machine gun is very sensitive to the wear of parts and the state of lubrication, and highly qualified machine gunners are required for competent maintenance.

Even before the launch of MG 34 into mass production, specialists from the Infantry Weapons Department of the Armaments Directorate pointed out its high cost and complex design.

In 1938, the company Metall-und Lackwarenfabrik Johannes Großfuß presented its own version of the machine gun, which, like the MG 34, had a short barrel stroke with locking the bolt by rollers with a spread to the sides. As in the MG 34 machine gun, the problem of barrel overheating during prolonged firing was solved by replacing it.

The new machine gun widely used stamping and spot welding, which reduced the cost of production. For the sake of simplicity, they abandoned the possibility of supplying the tape from either side of the weapon, store power supply and the fire mode switch. Compared to the MG 34, the cost of the MG 42 has dropped by about 30%. The MG 34 took approximately 49 kg of metal and 150 man-hours to manufacture. And on MG 42 - 27,5 kg and 75 man-hours.


Machine gun MG 42

Launching the new machine gun continued until 1941. After comparative tests with the improved MG 34/41, the new machine gun was adopted in 1942 under the designation MG 42.

MG 42 machine guns were produced until the end of April 1945, the total production at the enterprises of the Third Reich was more than 420 units.


Crew MG 42 at a firing position.

The MG 42 machine gun had the same length as the MG 34 - 1200 mm, but was slightly lighter (without cartridges - 11,57 kg). Depending on the mass of the shutter, the rate of fire was 1000-1500 rds / min.

MG 34 and MG 42 are rightfully considered one of the best machine guns used during the Second World War. In the post-war period, these weapons have spread widely throughout the world and have been actively used in regional conflicts. Modifications of MG 42 for other cartridges and with bolts of different weights were mass-produced in different countries and are still used today.

Due to the fact that the arms industry of the Third Reich was not able to fully provide the active army MG 34 and MG 42, the troops used machine guns created in other countries. The greatest contribution to the provision of machine guns to the armed forces of Nazi Germany was made by the Czech Republic.

Light machine guns ZB-26 and ZB-30


After the occupation of Czechoslovakia in March 1939, the Germans got more than 7 ZB-000 and ZB-26 machine guns. Also, a significant number of ZB-30s were captured in Yugoslavia.


Machine gun ZB-26

The ZB-26 light machine gun chambered for the German 7,92 × 57 mm cartridge was adopted by the Czechoslovak army in 1926. For that time, it was a very perfect weapon.

Automation ZB-26 functioned by removing part of the powder gases from the barrel. The barrel was locked by tilting the bolt in the vertical plane. The barrel is quick-change, a handle is attached to the barrel, which is designed to facilitate the process of replacing the barrel and carrying the machine gun. Shooting is carried out with support on a two-legged bipod. Or from a light machine, which also allows firing at air targets.

The trigger mechanism provides the ability to fire single shots and bursts. With a length of 1165 mm, the mass of the ZB-26 without cartridges was 8,9 kg. Food was carried out from a box magazine for 20 rounds, inserted from above.

The creators of the weapon believed that the location of the receiving neck from above accelerates loading and facilitates firing from a stop without clinging to the ground with the magazine body. The rate of fire was 600 rds / min. But (due to the use of a small-capacity store), the practical rate of fire did not exceed 100 rds / min. Bullet muzzle velocity - 760 m / s.


Machine gun ZB-30

The ZB-30 light machine gun differed in the design of the eccentric that set the bolt in motion, and the system for actuating the striker. The weapon had a gas valve, which made it possible to regulate the amount and intensity of the flow of powder gases into the cylinder, and the tide for installing an anti-aircraft sight. The weight of the ZB-30 has increased to 9,1 kg, but it has become more reliable. The rate of fire was 500-550 rds / min.

Machine guns ZB-26 and ZB-30 have established themselves as a reliable and unpretentious weapon. Machine guns captured in Czechoslovakia in the armed forces of Nazi Germany were designated MG.26 (t) and MG.30 (t).


Production of the ZB-30 at the Zbrojovka Brno plant continued until 1942. After that, the production of MG 42 began there. In total, the German army received more than 31 Czech light machine guns, which were mainly used by the occupation, security and police units, as well as in the SS troops.

Machine gun ZB-53


Another Czech-made machine gun chambered for 7,92 × 57 mm, widely used on the Eastern Front, was the ZB-53 easel. This sample, which was adopted by the Czechoslovak army in 1937, had automation, operating by diverting part of the powder gases through a side hole in the barrel wall. The barrel bore was locked by tilting the bolt in the vertical plane. The barrel could be replaced if necessary.

When creating the ZB-53, a number of interesting technical solutions were implemented, which made it more versatile. A special switch made it possible to increase the rate of fire from 500 to 850 rds / min. A high rate of fire was essential when firing at aircraft.


ZB-53 heavy machine gun in anti-aircraft firing position.

For anti-aircraft fire, the machine gun was mounted on a swivel of a folding sliding rack of the machine. Anti-aircraft sights, consisting of a ring sight and a rear sight, were included in the accessory kit. The mass of the machine gun with the machine was 39,6 kg. Which is not bad even by today's standards.


In the German army, the ZB-53 received the designation MG 37 (t). In total, the Wehrmacht and SS units received more than 12 Czech-made heavy machine guns. Unlike other foreign-made machine guns, which were used mainly in the rear and police units, the MG 600 (t) machine guns were very actively used on the Eastern Front.


Quite often, Czech heavy machine guns were mounted on cars as anti-aircraft guns and provided air defense for transport convoys and small units in the front line.

During World War II, the ZB-53 was deservedly considered one of the best heavy machine guns. But its excessively high labor intensity of manufacture and high cost price forced the Germans in 1942 to abandon the continuation of its production and reorient the arms factory in Brno to produce MG 42.

The use of captured German machine guns in the USSR


It is currently impossible to establish how many German machine guns our troops managed to capture during the war years. According to rough estimates, regular units and partisans could seize about 300 thousand machine guns from the enemy.

According to official archival documents, the trophy teams of the Red Army in the period from 1943 to 1945 managed to collect more than 250 thousand machine guns.


It is clear that there were more machine guns repulsed from the enemy. And that they (especially in the initial period of the war) were often not officially taken into account. Captured German machine guns in most cases were considered as a supernumerary means of fire reinforcement of the company-battalion link.

As mentioned earlier, old German machine guns (produced in the First World War) on the Soviet-German front in the initial period of the war were mainly operated in parts of the second line.

However, as the Eastern Front grinded Germany's human and material resources, by the end of 1943, machine-gun hunger began to be felt in the Wehrmacht. And water-cooled machine guns began to be actively used on the front lines. Although the MG 08 and MG 08/15 were considered obsolete by that time and were too heavy to accompany the infantry in the offensive, they performed well in defense.

Structurally, the German MG 08 had a lot in common with the Soviet Maxim machine gun of the 1910/30 model. And, if necessary, it could easily be mastered by the Red Army.

It is reliably known that the German MG 08 and the Polish Maxim wz. 08 at the end of 1941 entered service with the divisions of the people's militia. Apparently, the German versions of the Maxim machine gun were captured by our troops throughout the war, but there is no reliable information about their use.

Since the MG 08 did not have any particular advantages over the Soviet Maxim, obsolete captured machine guns were not often used against their former owners.

Nevertheless, up to 1500 MG 08 machine guns captured from the enemy were sent for storage after performance checks, preventive maintenance and conservation. Subsequently, these machine guns were transferred to the Chinese communists, and they were used in the civil war against the troops of Generalissimo Chiang Kai-shek, as well as during the hostilities on the Korean Peninsula.


Taking into account the fact that in China, under the designation Type 24, the licensed release of MG 08 was carried out, and the 7,92 × 57 mm cartridge was standard in the Chinese army, there were no difficulties with the development of the machine guns transferred to the USSR.

In the first half of the 1960s, China supplied North Vietnam with part of the former German machine guns in the form of gratuitous military aid.

The first MG 34s were captured by our troops in June 1941. But (due to the general confusion and ignorance of the material part of captured machine guns) at the initial stage of hostilities, they were rarely used and ineffective.


I must say that the attitude towards captured MG 34 and MG 42 machine guns in the Red Army was ambiguous.

On the one hand, the single belt-fed machine guns had good combat characteristics. With a relatively low mass, they had a high rate of fire and accuracy.

On the other hand, the most modern German machine guns had a rather complex device, requiring qualified maintenance and careful maintenance. These weapons fully revealed their potential in the hands of competent and well-trained fighters.

But given the fact that trophy machine guns were not listed anywhere, they often lacked ammunition, there were no additional barrels and spare parts. They were not taken care of and exploited until the first serious breakdown.


After our troops captured a significant number of German machine guns, the Soviet command took a number of measures to streamline their use.

In the second half of 1942, courses for the preparation of MG 34 crews were organized in the Red Army. And at the beginning of 1944, a printed manual on the use of captured MG 34 and MG 42 machine guns was published.


As in the case of captured 7,92-mm rifles, German machine guns entered service with rear units that were not directly involved in hostilities. Taking into account the high rate of fire, the presence of standard machines and sighting devices designed for anti-aircraft fire, MG 34 and MG 42 machine guns were operated in air defense units until the end of hostilities.


By the second half of 1943, Germany had lost its strategic initiative. By that time, Soviet troops were fully equipped with domestically produced small arms. And there was no particular need for captured machine guns.

After sorting, machine guns suitable for further use were sent to specialized enterprises, where they were repaired and preserved.

After the end of World War II in the USSR, there were tens of thousands of MG 34 and MG 42 machine guns in warehouses. In the late 1940s and early 1950s, a significant part of the captured weapons with ammunition was transferred to the Allies.

Along with the archaic MG 08, the MG 34 and MG 42, which were quite modern at that time, were actively used against the UN forces in Korea.


PLA soldiers fire from MG 42.

Until the mid-1960s, machine guns produced in the Third Reich were in service in Czechoslovakia and the GDR. Subsequently, these machine guns were transported to Arab countries. And they were used in hostilities against Israel.

There are many photos from the Vietnam War period on the web that show Vietcong fighters and North Vietnamese militias with MG 34 machine guns.


MG 34 was supplied with standard anti-aircraft sights and tripods. And they were very often used to fire at aerial targets. Rapid-fire machine guns, firing powerful 7,92-mm rifle cartridges, posed a real threat to helicopters and attack aircraft operating at low altitudes.

After the fall of Saigon in April 1975 and the unification of the country, the MG 34 machine guns in Vietnam were sent to warehouses, where they were until recently stored along with German rifles.

Apparently, Soviet troops first captured a significant number of Czechoslovak-made machine guns during the defense of Odessa. So, in the second half of September 1941, during the counterattacks, units of the Primorsky Army repulsed about 250 ZB-30 and ZB-53 machine guns belonging to the 13th and 15th Romanian infantry divisions.


During the battles of World War II, machine guns ZB-26, ZB-30 and ZB-53 quite often became trophies of regular units of the Red Army and partisans. Taking into account the fact that Czech light machine guns were lighter and simpler than MG 34, in the initial period of the war they enjoyed a certain popularity among our fighters.


Although a light machine gun with a 20-round magazine in terms of rate of fire could not compete with the MG 34, a machine gunner who personally carried 6-8 magazines was able to act independently and do without a second crew number.

Machine guns ZB-26, ZB-30 and ZB-53 were in service with the Czechoslovak army until the second half of the 1950s. Chinese People's Volunteers fought the ZB-26 in Korea, and they were in the PLA until the early 1970s.

Apparently, a number of Czech-made machine guns were in storage until the collapse of the USSR.

There is information that several light machine guns taken from warehouses in Donetsk and Luhansk regions were used by militias in 2014.

To be continued ...
Author:
Articles from this series:
Use of captured German pistols in the USSR
The use of German captured submachine guns in the USSR
The use of captured German rifles and machine guns in the USSR
322 comments
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  1. Toucan
    Toucan 4 January 2021 05: 21
    +10
    In my opinion, the author is right, the German MG-34/42 were superior in performance to Soviet machine guns. It is unclear why trophy machine guns were used in a limited way.
    1. apro
      apro 4 January 2021 05: 38
      +19
      Quote: Tucan
      It is unclear why trophy machine guns were used in a limited way.

      Lack of ammunition or irregular replenishment ... the saw is gluttonous. And the qualifications of the service personnel did not reach. As with the light.
      1. Free wind
        Free wind 4 January 2021 06: 52
        -31%
        The maintenance personnel from the peasants were in the qualifications higher than the current engineers. Almost every peasant had some kind of weapon in his hut. this is additional food and protection from dashing people. And almost any village kid could take care of weapons and use them, most urban and educated weapons did not know, and they could not imagine what to do with them.
        1. apro
          apro 4 January 2021 06: 59
          +29
          Quote: Free Wind
          The maintenance personnel from the peasants were in the qualifications higher than the current engineers.

          This must be immortalized in granite ... I readily believe it myself ... it is not clear only ... why the country needs engineers and technicians ... when in any Russian tkni ... and on you ... then Kulibin then Lobachevsky ... in the fifth generation ...
          1. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 4 January 2021 07: 05
            +15
            Quote: apro
            why does the country need engineers and technicians, when in any Russian stick ... and on you, then Kulibin, then Lobachevsky ... in the fifth generation ...

            That's it. My boss asked me to do something non-standard. I told him "Ivanovich, there is a technologist ... With a higher education ... - Yes, he went to the department, this technologist!"
            1. apro
              apro 4 January 2021 07: 22
              +5
              Quote: Mordvin 3
              That's it

              What exactly ??? if the technologist is not able to organize the technical process, then why is it needed? And how was it prepared? And how is his skills used or does he not have them? These questions were not raised?
              And how old are you? As I understand it, you have gained decades of experience in one production. And in the bottom of your specialty. Or did it immediately turn out like the threshold of the enterprise?
              1. Mordvin 3
                Mordvin 3 4 January 2021 07: 28
                +4
                Quote: apro
                if the technologist is not able to organize the technical process, why is it needed? and how was it prepared? and how is his skills used or does he not have them? these questions were not raised?

                Two technologists, and both didn’t know how, compared to me.
                Quote: apro
                And how old are you?

                Under fifty dollars.
                Quote: apro
                Or did it immediately turn out as the enterprise crossed the threshold?

                Exactly. Already in the second year, I did any non-standard when the boss saw what I could. And I was in my early twenties.
                1. apro
                  apro 4 January 2021 07: 41
                  +4
                  Quote: Mordvin 3
                  Two technologists, and both didn’t know how, compared to me.

                  Do your shoulders press against the wall?
                  Quote: Mordvin 3
                  That is how

                  It happens ... but in general, the Russian industrial culture is lower than the European ... and this question, why, remains unanswered.
                  1. Mordvin 3
                    Mordvin 3 4 January 2021 07: 44
                    +1
                    Quote: apro
                    It happens ... but in general, the Russian industrial culture is lower than the European ... and this question, why, remains unanswered.

                    What? Justify. repeat
                    1. apro
                      apro 4 January 2021 07: 47
                      +4
                      Quote: Mordvin 3
                      What? Justify

                      What brand do you use? And what brand do you have? And civil aircraft in the rf what? Modern machine park, whose in rf? Tools?
                      1. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 4 January 2021 07: 55
                        +10
                        Quote: apro
                        What brand do you have?

                        We had Horizon. When I bought Sharpe, I connected the video recorder to them one by one. I did not see any difference.
                        Quote: apro
                        Which one are you traveling on?

                        On a gazelle, damn it!
                        Quote: apro
                        whose modern machine-tool park is in Russia?

                        I have all Soviet instruments. Electric drill 74th year of release. And a bunch of Soviet devices. Typhoon type vacuum cleaner, or Rosinka juicers. The Sirius tape recorder worked for 20 years without one breakdown, not counting the blown fuse when the cockroach crawled into it.
                      2. apro
                        apro 4 January 2021 08: 03
                        +4
                        Quote: Mordvin 3
                        I have all Soviet instruments

                        There are no complaints about the Soviet ones ... the Soviet universal drill itself has devils of what year, but the Russian one ...
                        The welder himself.instrument of the PRC.and inverter and shm.varyu with Chinese electrodes.fact is that there are no Russian instruments.and the nameplate can be Russian, but the components of the PRC.and designed by also not Russians.
                        Don't talk about a gazelle ... no one will regret it ... bought it myself ...
                      3. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 4 January 2021 08: 11
                        +2
                        Quote: apro
                        but Russian ...

                        So we forgot how to make an instrument? Can't even make electrodes? And what are you cooking yourself?
                        Quote: apro
                        Don't talk about a gazelle ... no one will regret it ... bought it myself ...

                        Hehe ... Once the Ford company recalled their buses. The ball bearings in the hubs were defective.
                      4. apro
                        apro 4 January 2021 08: 17
                        +4
                        Quote: Mordvin 3
                        And what are you cooking yourself?

                        Basically, heating mains, boilers are not common, and metal structures are only small, although he is a locksmith himself in his last full-time position.
                        Quote: Mordvin 3
                        So we forgot how to make an instrument?

                        There is no one to do ... they could not stand market relations. And a disregard for the industry.
                        The problems of the remaining productions ... there is no one to take to work, there are no mechanics, welders, assemblers, there is nothing for them to take, there is no constant work ...
                      5. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 4 January 2021 08: 22
                        +7
                        Quote: apro
                        Basically, heating mains, boilers are not common, and metal structures are only small, although he is a locksmith himself in his last full-time position.

                        And I am the fences.
                        Quote: apro
                        there is no permanent job ...

                        Otherwise, I don’t know ... I am a master of concrete goods by profession, I worked as a car mechanic for 12 years, worked as a handyman for 5 years, in summer I pumped water for summer residents and a plumber at the same time. Ugh!
                      6. apro
                        apro 4 January 2021 08: 27
                        +5
                        Quote: Mordvin 3
                        I don’t know ...

                        We live in different parts of the country and the problems are the same.
                      7. Alf
                        Alf 4 January 2021 16: 31
                        +7
                        Quote: apro
                        Quote: Mordvin 3
                        I don’t know ...

                        We live in different parts of the country and the problems are the same.

                        There is only one country ... And the top leadership in the country ...
                  2. Mordvin 3
                    Mordvin 3 4 January 2021 08: 25
                    +6
                    Quote: apro
                    could not stand market relations.

                    By the way. In 94th, a friend bought Horizon. He worked for two weeks and then welled up. It turned out that the Japs supplied us with defective blocks.
                  3. Gvardeetz77
                    Gvardeetz77 4 January 2021 12: 01
                    +3
                    Quote: mordvin xnumx
                    Quote: apro
                    could not stand market relations.

                    By the way. In 94th, a friend bought Horizon. He worked for two weeks and then welled up. It turned out that the Japs supplied us with defective blocks.

                    I now have a TV made on Horizon, a Chinese smart TV, with a Chinese nameplate, but from Horizon. So on it (not only me, many, judging by the communication on the thematic forum), initially there was a problem in the software with setting the color rendition, for all calls the plant translated the arrows beyond the Amur River, they say we just fasten the screens to the case and pack them in boxes ... Screwdriver assemblies)
                  4. Mordvin 3
                    Mordvin 3 4 January 2021 12: 07
                    +2
                    No. It was 94th year. They began to contact the Japs and buy some blocks from them. A friend bought, and then we were told that the whole batch of TVs broke. It is because of the Japanese blocks. We've got one shopkeeper going broke on them.
                  5. Bongo
                    4 January 2021 12: 14
                    +7
                    Quote: Gvardeetz77
                    I now have a TV made on Horizon, a Chinese smart TV, with a Chinese nameplate, but from Horizon.

                    You are a desperate man ... belay There is nothing worse than those assembled in the CIS from Chinese components. Better to pay a little extra and take Samsung or LG. If your TV fails, then finding spare parts for it will be very problematic. And take care of the remote control, you will hardly find the second one.
                  6. Mordvin 3
                    Mordvin 3 4 January 2021 12: 18
                    +1
                    Quote: Bongo
                    And take care of the remote control, you will hardly find the second one.

                    And they also produce universal. wink
                  7. Bongo
                    4 January 2021 12: 27
                    +6
                    Quote: Mordvin 3
                    And they also produce universal.

                    Let me tell you a little secret. My beloved wife, a clever and beautiful woman, runs the service center, among other things, we sell remote controls. I help her as much as possible and have an idea of ​​the subject of the conversation. Available only for old ones with CRT. The suppliers of universal remote controls for LCD TVs HORIZONT do not. As well as at DEXP and other go-but assembled from Chinese components. We are visited every day by people who recklessly bought TVs of these brands.
                  8. Mordvin 3
                    Mordvin 3 4 January 2021 12: 35
                    +2
                    Quote: Bongo
                    As well as at DEXP and other go-but assembled from Chinese components. We are visited every day by people who recklessly bought TVs of these brands.

                    And I have a picture tube Erisson. Kaliningrad assembly. In 2010 I bought it. I also can't find the remote control. And the old one is dead ... Well, okay. There was a TV set Yunost, so I switched channels with a fishing rod, lying on the couch. And on the buttons of the Horizon in general I fired from the air, 53rd year of release. laughing
                  9. Bongo
                    4 January 2021 12: 38
                    +5
                    Quote: Mordvin 3
                    And I have a picture tube Erisson. Kaliningrad assembly. In 2010 I bought it. I also can't find the remote control. And the old one is dead ...

                    Here you can order:
                    https://clickpdu.ru/?yclid=18093423538454958438
                    Just be very careful not to make a mistake with the model. hi
                  10. Mordvin 3
                    Mordvin 3 4 January 2021 12: 43
                    +1
                    Quote: Bongo
                    Just be very careful not to make a mistake with the model.

                    In fact of the matter. My neighbor also has Erisson, I asked him for two remotes, but they don't fit. But LG's mother, so the remote control of the early XNUMXs fits a completely different LG model.
                  11. Bongo
                    4 January 2021 12: 49
                    +7
                    Quote: Mordvin 3
                    In fact of the matter. My neighbor also has Erisson, I asked him for two remotes, but they don't fit.

                    Your TV has a model nameplate on the back. The site has a search box into which you should enter your model and find your remote control. hi
                    Quote: Mordvin 3
                    But LG's mother, so the remote control of the early XNUMXs fits a completely different model of LG.

                    Remotes from all new LG and Samsung fit all LG and Samsung. And spare parts for these brands are much easier to find.
                    So I repeat:
                    Quote: Bongo
                    Better to pay a little extra and take Samsung or LG.
                  12. Mordvin 3
                    Mordvin 3 4 January 2021 12: 58
                    +1
                    Quote: Bongo
                    Better to pay a little extra and take Samsung or LG.

                    So ... I'll tell you a story. I bought a Samsung in the early XNUMXs. Brought home, but he did not want to work. I bought a Goldstar ... he worked for me for eight years, and the socket fell off under the plug. I went to solder it, put it on its side, and take it and screw it up. And generally stopped working. I got angry and took it to the trash heap.
            2. Alf
              Alf 4 January 2021 16: 35
              +3
              Quote: Mordvin 3
              53rd year of release.

              Air or TV? laughing
            3. Mordvin 3
              Mordvin 3 4 January 2021 20: 58
              +5
              Quote: Alf
              Air or TV?

              Air. I remember the year, because Stalin died this year. And Horizon was winter 84 or 85. I remembered the year, because a guest from the future was already looking at it. The colors are brilliant.
              Here's one. Thanks to our forum member, Yuri Georgievich Shatrakov for their products. Recently, a friend of the receiver Ocean begged, since the 82nd year, not a single breakdown, only the backlight bulb burned out, the LEDs were soldered, because I could not find the bulbs.
        2. Vadim_888
          Vadim_888 4 January 2021 13: 33
          +3
          ... There is no remote control for HORIZONT LCD TVs. As well as at DEXP and other go-but assembled from Chinese components.

          Have you tried looking for software for phones with an IR port? I found for Panasonic 93
        3. Vovk
          Vovk 4 January 2021 15: 30
          +4
          Quote: Vadim_888
          Have you tried looking for software for phones with an IR port? I found for Panasonic 93

          There is wonderful software for universal IR remotes RCCreator.
          Constantly updated database. Here's an example of remote control firmware for Noname Horizont.
        4. Bongo
          4 January 2021 16: 41
          +5
          Quote: Vovk
          Quote: Vadim_888
          Have you tried looking for software for phones with an IR port? I found for Panasonic 93

          There is wonderful software for universal IR remotes RCCreator.
          Constantly updated database. Here's an example of remote control firmware for Noname Horizont.

          Have you tried it yourself?
          There are no copies of the remote control on sale, neither the originals As practice shows, what you propose does not always work.
        5. Vovk
          Vovk 4 January 2021 17: 19
          +1
          Quote: Bongo
          Have you tried it yourself?
          There are no copies of the remote control on sale, neither the originals As practice shows, what you propose does not always work.

          There is nothing to do there. I made myself a 1-remote control for controlling a bunch of equipment - a TV set + satellite receiver + audio receiver + blu-ray player. There you can program each button and assign a group to each device separately.
          The process is easy - the program is installed, a universal remote control is connected via Usb, I had many (HR55C, YX27, HR56G), I stopped at HR56G ... the required firmware is selected in the program ... then the remote control can work in virtual mode, i.e. without loading the firmware into it - the Virtual Remote mode, the virtual remote control is displayed in the program ... you press the virtual buttons and if the firmware fits, then the directional remote control connected to the computer will work on the TV ... turn on, turn off, switch channels. If the firmware is suitable, the virtual console mode is disabled and the firmware is poured into the console and then the console is used autonomously.
  2. gsev
    gsev 6 January 2021 01: 07
    0
    Quote: Mordvin 3
    And they also produce universal.

    About 10 years ago, universal ones replaced only running models, for which there were already cheaper remote controls in a case similar to the original. That is, it made sense to buy them, if in your house the remote control controlled both the TV and the video camera.
  3. Alf
    Alf 4 January 2021 16: 34
    +1
    Quote: Bongo
    And take care of the remote control, you will hardly find the second one.

    Find on the Horizon-do not figs. Not in stores, there is internet.
  4. Bongo
    4 January 2021 16: 39
    +2
    Quote: Alf
    Find on the Horizon-do not figs. Not in stores, there is internet.

    We don't need this smut. Carrying remotes to Chinese shit is more expensive. Olya gives the address of the site, who needs to order at his own peril and risk.
  5. Alf
    Alf 4 January 2021 16: 45
    +2
    Quote: Bongo
    Quote: Alf
    Find on the Horizon-do not figs. Not in stores, there is internet.

    We don't need this smut. Carrying remotes to Chinese shit is more expensive. Olya gives the adrem of the site, who needs to order at his own peril and risk.

    There are three points within a radius of three blocks from my house, at which there are so many distances on ALL TV that the eyes diverge. And on the Horizon there is, and on Ruby, on Ericsson, even on Akai, although he rested in Bose for a long time.
    By the way, Chinese clones of famous names' distances are no worse, only half the price.
  6. zyablik.olga
    zyablik.olga 4 January 2021 17: 07
    +3
    Quote: Alf
    There are three points within a radius of three blocks from my house, at which there are so many distances on ALL TV that the eyes diverge. And on the Horizon there is, and on Ruby, on Ericsson, even on Akai, although he rested in Bose for a long time.
    By the way, Chinese clones of famous names' distances are no worse, only half the price.

    Vasily, good evening!
    The problem is that in most cases the remotes of the brands you specified are suitable only for a specific model. Do I need to produce the nomenclature? Most of which will be illiquid.
  7. Alf
    Alf 4 January 2021 17: 17
    +1
    Quote: zyablik.olga
    Vasily, good evening!

    Ours for you! hi
    How is this known? I ask honestly, no jokes. It's just that I have all TV Skis of different models and all distances in them are interchangeable.
  8. zyablik.olga
    zyablik.olga 5 January 2021 04: 11
    +3
    Quote: Alf
    How is this known? I ask honestly, no jokes. It's just that I have all TV Skis of different models and all distances in them are interchangeable.

    Vasily, I did not understand your question. request Are you asking whether all remote controls on LG are interchangeable with each other? In this regard, LG and Samsung are perfect - all LCD remote controls for these models are suitable for each other. Of course, if you lose the pointer remote control, then a regular remote control will not fully replace it, but the basic functions will work.
  9. Alf
    Alf 5 January 2021 16: 25
    +1
    Quote: zyablik.olga
    Vasily, I did not understand your question.

    I meant consoles for Horizons.
  10. gsev
    gsev 6 January 2021 01: 05
    0
    Quote: Bongo
    And take care of the remote control, you will hardly find the second one.

    They were replaced just 10 years ago. In Zelenograd, remote controls were produced for various TVs made in several standard sizes of the case, often not similar to the original. But the price was biting 270 rubles wholesale versus 25-70 rubles wholesale for a Chinese remote control in a case identical to the original. Retail, respectively, 400 and 250 rubles. Perhaps on old domestic TVs, in the remote control of which the original Soviet microcircuits are used, the Chinese do not produce remote controls and, accordingly, these microcircuits are not cloned. Why should they support the radio-electronic industry of Belarus.
  11. Reader 2013
    Reader 2013 6 January 2021 05: 39
    +2
    Download a tiny program from the play market and you can control any TV, any smartphone
    I brought my wife this way, she has a remote control, she watches a movie or a TV series, and I switch her TV to the divine channel with my smartphone, she was almost going to carry the TV to church wassat
  12. Alf
    Alf 4 January 2021 16: 30
    +8
    Quote: apro
    The problems of the remaining productions .. there is no one to hire. There are no locksmiths, welders, assemblers.

    And the management has not tried to pay salary, and not unemployment benefits? Then people will be found and they will hold on to the place with their teeth.
  13. Vadim_888
    Vadim_888 4 January 2021 13: 26
    +3
    .
    So we forgot how to make an instrument?

    Can you name the manufacturer of hob cutters in Russia?
  14. Mordvin 3
    Mordvin 3 4 January 2021 14: 54
    +2
    Quote: Vadim_888
    Can you name the manufacturer of hob cutters in Russia?

    I can not! And can you?
  15. Vadim_888
    Vadim_888 6 January 2021 02: 21
    +2
    I came across only from the Kalinin factory "milling cutter" but it has not existed for more than 19 years
  16. The comment was deleted.
  17. Flashpoint
    Flashpoint 4 January 2021 21: 50
    +2
    Quote: Vadim_888
    .
    So we forgot how to make an instrument?

    Can you name the manufacturer of hob cutters in Russia?


    Vadim, I came across your comment and rummaged through the Internet. The question is really difficult :)
    From the dug up:
    PIGroup, OOO, Nizhny Novgorod
    Manufacturing of hob cutters of various diameters and modules (according to technical specifications)
    Website - http://pi-group.ru/
    I did not find it on the site in the nomenclature. Perhaps it really is under the order and
    for those. assignment (which is quite logical if the market is not strongly tuned in to the production of everything and everyone). For specifics, it is clearly necessary to go to the office itself.
  18. Petro_tut
    Petro_tut 6 January 2021 02: 49
    +1
    Probably a non-trivial task
  19. Alf
    Alf 4 January 2021 16: 28
    +4
    Quote: Mordvin 3
    The Sirius tape recorder worked for 20 years without one breakdown, not counting the blown fuse when the cockroach crawled into it.

    Cockroach music lover? laughing
  20. Mordvin 3
    Mordvin 3 6 January 2021 02: 40
    +1
    Quote: Alf
    Cockroach music lover?

    A friend's New Year was celebrated in the mid-90s, so I dragged my bandura to him, since he did not have his own music. More precisely, it was, but low-power, something like Electronics three hundred and two. The cockroach probably also decided to celebrate the New Year with us. Probably got drunk, and climbed where it was warmer. Or he was curious what the new toy was. It was fun. A company of 15 people gathered.
  21. Alf
    Alf 6 January 2021 16: 52
    +1
    Quote: Mordvin 3
    Probably got drunk, and climbed where it was warmer.

    I got high and died happy.
  • cat Rusich
    cat Rusich 4 January 2021 17: 36
    +3
    Quote: apro
    Russian industrial culture.
    My father studied at a vocational school as a locksmith ...
    I came to the factory ... I went to the lathe - to see how they work. Father was given a try to work on a lathe ... I liked it - so my father became a turner. It so happens that a human worker has inclinations, predispositions to work - and more often the bosses impose another specialty. Father was casually fastened on a PLANING MACHINE - you know how to work (at first you worked on a machine for yourself) - then the boss voluntarily determined part-time for the machine - to make parts as needed. So, an employee of the technical process can make up (talent), and a technologist can only receive a salary ... A Russian worker and a Swiss and a reaper and a gamer on a pipe good
  • sibiryouk
    sibiryouk 4 January 2021 09: 24
    +4
    I know a lot of technologists with 40 years of experience, who have mostly gained experience with paperwork, and are not able to clearly organize the technical process.
    1. your1970
      your1970 5 January 2021 17: 54
      0
      Quote: sibiryouk
      I know a lot of technologists with 40 years of experience, who have mostly gained experience with paperwork, and are not able to clearly organize the technical process.

      That is, these technologists are nifiga not Russian workers?
      Quote: cat Rusich
      Russian worker and shvets and reapers and igrets on the dude
  • Free wind
    Free wind 4 January 2021 11: 24
    -4
    In terms of survival, village boys and girls will put any survivor in the belt, I'm talking about this. And any boy could disassemble, assemble and lubricate the rifle
    1. your1970
      your1970 5 January 2021 17: 57
      +4
      Quote: Free Wind
      In terms of survival, village boys and girls will put any survivor in the belt, I'm talking about this. And any boy could disassemble, assemble and lubricate the rifle

      Then why these village boys nifiga couldn't cope with ABC and SVT ?????? !!!
      Didn't want ?????
      Naval - with a higher level of education I liked SVT, but did not like the infantry ...
  • Artunis
    Artunis 4 January 2021 11: 38
    +1
    Well, judging by the gross grammatical errors, you obviously "did not graduate from universities" and you should not boast of it. And by the way, Lobachevsky just had an excellent education for his time.
  • Sling cutter
    Sling cutter 4 January 2021 07: 02
    +16
    Quote: Free Wind
    The maintenance personnel from the peasants were in the qualifications higher than the current engineers.

    Colleague, why are you writing this nonsense, claiming that the engineer who created the weapon and the worker who made it are less qualified in using it than an illiterate peasant ???
    1. Free wind
      Free wind 4 January 2021 07: 12
      -18%
      Did a highly skilled worker or engineer fight? He is over forty years old. And he could get his own food and survive in animal conditions? Therefore, the boys dealt with all kinds of weapons, or they made them themselves. Self-drills, knives, lances. bows, etc., got their own food.
      1. Mordvin 3
        Mordvin 3 4 January 2021 07: 18
        +8
        Quote: Free Wind
        Did a highly skilled worker or engineer fight? He is over forty years old.

        I made a crossbow in the second grade, and in the eighth - an air gun. With a drill and file. Somehow I was not forty years old.
        1. Free wind
          Free wind 4 January 2021 07: 25
          -11%
          In the second grade, you were the chief engineer. and then the general director? It's interesting about the air, don't you cheat? How could you do it? Well, in arms, weapon designers were not the snipers of their weapons.
          1. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 4 January 2021 07: 39
            +8
            Quote: Free Wind
            It's interesting about the air, don't you cheat? How could you do it?

            You know, in the USSR there was such a device called a pump. Cycling. And the crossbow diagram was published in the magazine. For children.
            1. onega67
              onega67 4 January 2021 07: 55
              +2
              And there were also clamshells!
              1. Mordvin 3
                Mordvin 3 4 January 2021 08: 17
                +6
                Quote: onega67
                And there were also clamshells!

                And pipes from a moped. However, Dad dragged me copper. The scarecrows were making. And the tourniquet in pharmacies instantly disappeared into slingshots and crossbows.
                1. faiver
                  faiver 4 January 2021 08: 56
                  +6
                  we carried copper pipes from the auto cemetery of the military unit bully
                  every modern special forces rest wassat
                2. Mordvin 3
                  Mordvin 3 4 January 2021 09: 03
                  +5
                  Quote: faiver
                  modern special forces are resting

                  Somehow DOSAAF went to get the car. Ural. The four of us spent the whole day until they started. Half of the pipes were missing. laughing
                3. Alf
                  Alf 4 January 2021 16: 41
                  +7
                  Quote: faiver
                  And pipes from a moped. However, Dad dragged me copper. The scarecrows were making. And the tourniquet in pharmacies instantly disappeared into slingshots and crossbows.

                  Quote: faiver
                  we carried copper pipes from the auto cemetery of the military unit

                  What kind of talented children grew up in the USSR, I'm not afraid to say bluntly - Kulibins, nuggets ..
                  And nowadays, only three fingers have grown for a mouse, a screw, damn it, they don't know how to wrap a wall ...
                4. paul3390
                  paul3390 4 January 2021 19: 01
                  +8
                  a screw, damn it, they don't know how to wrap a wall.

                  As you know, a screw driven in with a hammer holds better than a nail wrapped in a screwdriver. wink
                5. Alf
                  Alf 4 January 2021 20: 44
                  +6
                  Quote: Alf
                  What kind of talented children grew up in the USSR


        2. Alf
          Alf 4 January 2021 16: 38
          +2
          Quote: Mordvin 3
          And the crossbow diagram was published in the magazine. For children.

          Was the magazine called "The Young Hitman's Textbook" by any chance? laughing
          1. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 4 January 2021 16: 47
            +4
            Quote: Alf
            Was the magazine called "The Young Hitman's Textbook" by any chance?

            No. It was a children's magazine. And what it was called, even kill, I do not remember. Not a young technician, for younger children.
            1. Alf
              Alf 4 January 2021 20: 47
              +4
              Quote: mordvin xnumx
              Quote: Alf
              Was the magazine called "The Young Hitman's Textbook" by any chance?

              No. It was a children's magazine. And what it was called, even kill, I do not remember. Not a young technician, for younger children.

              Comrade Marshal, you have a mysterious admirer - put a minus for such a neutral statement ... Someone is clearly breathing unevenly towards you.
      2. Avior
        Avior 4 January 2021 11: 24
        +9
        For a Soviet schoolchild, air from a pump and an elastic bandage ("tourniquet") was a common thing. She shot with plasticine. The main thing is that the father has a scarce electrical tape to steal to secure the trunk smile
        1. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 4 January 2021 13: 38
          +1
          Quote: Avior
          The main thing is that the father has a scarce electrical tape to steal to secure the trunk

          Um ... In the early 80s, as I remember, I bought three bulbs for a flashlight, and a roll of electrical tape. A year in the 83rd somewhere. The saleswoman made a mistake and gave me three skeins and one light bulb. Insulating tape cost 22 kopecks, if I'm not mistaken. A light bulb - 6 kopecks, it seems. Three and a half volts. And my daddy had a whole roll of cloth tape. Such a big ...
          1. Avior
            Avior 4 January 2021 14: 31
            +6
            Apparently, in different places it was different
            Or maybe I forgot, not a deficit, but we did not buy, but simply borrowed from our fathers, there was a decent expense, it was necessary to tie it securely to the box.
            In any case, I remember the questions on this topic. :)))
            1. Mordvin 3
              Mordvin 3 4 January 2021 14: 41
              +2
              Quote: Avior
              not a deficit, but we did not buy, but simply borrowed from the fathers, there was a decent expense, it was necessary to tie it securely to the box.

              I was buying! I remember exactly. Precisely because the saleswoman was mistaken, and I did not correct her. It's still a shame.
              Quote: Avior
              it was necessary to tie it securely to the stock.

              And my dad was tied with wire.
            2. Avior
              Avior 4 January 2021 15: 21
              +4
              We made it ourselves, it is safer with duct tape. The consumption is only high, the whole skein was gone
            3. Mordvin 3
              Mordvin 3 4 January 2021 15: 40
              +1
              Quote: Avior
              The consumption is only high, the whole skein was gone

              It depends on which skein. It was rag, so it was huge skeins. By the way, we twisted electric cables to ZILs. Several kilometers a day. You clamp the wires in a vise and wind them.
            4. Avior
              Avior 4 January 2021 16: 46
              +5
              Blue vinyl was more prized
              But they used a black rag too
            5. Free wind
              Free wind 4 January 2021 19: 59
              0
              The hockey sticks were twisted in black, rag., But why I don't know, probably kind of cool ..
      3. Alf
        Alf 4 January 2021 16: 48
        +2
        Quote: Mordvin 3
        Precisely because the saleswoman was mistaken, and I did not correct her. It's still a shame.

        Find and return. laughing
      4. Mordvin 3
        Mordvin 3 4 January 2021 16: 51
        +1
        Quote: Alf
        Find and return.

        Almost 40 years have passed since those times. And the store has long been gone ...
  • Alf
    Alf 4 January 2021 16: 47
    +1
    Quote: Avior
    In any case, I remember the questions on this topic. :)))

    Did your father ask questions? A leather questioner?
  • Avior
    Avior 4 January 2021 17: 00
    +5
    It didn't reach the belt, but the questions were asked seriously when he needed electrical tape, but it was not in the garage. I don’t remember how I got out. But that's what it is. We had a game of buttons, metal was especially appreciated, and as luck would have it, my father had such on the trousers in which he went to work smile
  • Alf
    Alf 4 January 2021 17: 03
    +2
    Quote: Avior
    and as luck would have it, my father had these on the trousers in which he went to work

    As far as I understand, he grabbed his pants one morning, but he could not find the buttons on them and started asking unpleasant painful questions? laughing
  • Mordvin 3
    Mordvin 3 4 January 2021 20: 04
    +1
    Quote: Alf
    As far as I understand, he grabbed his pants one morning, but he could not find the buttons on them and started asking unpleasant painful questions?

    And we always lacked skin for slingshots. The tongues of my father's boots were cut off. laughing
  • Avior
    Avior 4 January 2021 23: 48
    +2
    After some educational measures and my clumsy versions about the suddenly detached, the buttons were taken away and my father fastened them with wire smile
    Fortunately, I didn't have time to lose them. :)))
  • Mordvin 3
    Mordvin 3 4 January 2021 13: 48
    0
    Quote: Avior
    and an elastic bandage ("harness"

    And Dynamite bought the whole tourniquet in our pharmacy. And then he sold for double the price. His boys were chasing him for it.
    1. Alf
      Alf 4 January 2021 16: 49
      0
      Quote: Mordvin 3
      And Dynamite bought the whole tourniquet in our pharmacy. And then he sold for double the price.

      So this is where the oligarchs come from ... laughing
      1. Mordvin 3
        Mordvin 3 4 January 2021 16: 57
        +2
        Quote: Alf
        So this is where the oligarchs come from ...

        Dynamite has been stuck for a long time. From greed. Remember how pumped he was? I ate anabolic drugs in three throats. And he tried to sell to us.
      2. Alf
        Alf 4 January 2021 17: 00
        +1
        Quote: Mordvin 3
        Remember how pumped he was?

        Of course I remember. And how gorgeous he played in the Special Forces in Russian ... There, in general, such artists got close ..
      3. The comment was deleted.
  • paul3390
    paul3390 4 January 2021 19: 03
    +3
    Well, I don’t know, we somehow immediately switched to a firearm with sulfur from matches ... laughing
    1. faiver
      faiver 4 January 2021 23: 51
      +1
      well, copper pipes for a similar firearm and went hi
      and a little later, from iron toy revolvers, they began to make self-propelled guns under a small cartridge, there were already used aluminum tubes yes
      with gray from matches crossed
      - the sulfur went on like a firearm, they made houses from matches, and glued a tank on an electric motor from empty boxes ...
    2. Avior
      Avior 4 January 2021 23: 56
      +1
      Another finger was almost torn off with such a self-stick. He cleaned more than 4 boxes of matches, but it did not ignite, and he decided to burn it hot with a ramrod. I don't even know how this idea came to my mind. It exploded ...
      Explosion packets did. A matchbox with "gray" matches, potassium permanganate and aluminum powder - silver, tightly and firmly wrapped with the same tape, a small hole and about six matches are attached to it, which are lit from each other in order to have time to throw.
      In a bakhalo! As soon as the eyes remained intact ...
      1. Alf
        Alf 5 January 2021 16: 29
        0
        Quote: Avior
        A matchbox with "gray" matches, potassium permanganate and aluminum powder - silver, tightly and firmly wrapped with the same tape, a small hole and about six matches are attached to it, which light from each other in order to have time to throw.

        Mendeleevs, damn it ... laughing
  • faiver
    faiver 4 January 2021 23: 41
    +2
    Father's tape scarce to steal
    - my dad worked as an electrician at a poultry farm, electrical tape, chickens and eggs were never considered a deficit at home, he did not eat chicken after his father retired for ten years - so tired smile
    1. Alf
      Alf 5 January 2021 16: 30
      0
      Quote: faiver
      chickens and eggs were never considered a shortage at home,

      Didn't you start to cluck? laughing
  • Free wind
    Free wind 4 January 2021 19: 52
    0
    All the outstanding snipers in the USSR were village kids. So that's it.
    1. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 4 January 2021 20: 08
      +1
      Quote: Free Wind
      All the outstanding snipers in the USSR were village kids. So that's it.

      Ahh ... Well, I'm urban, but every year I went to my grandfather's village for the summer.
  • Sling cutter
    Sling cutter 4 January 2021 07: 26
    +15
    Quote: Free Wind
    Did a highly skilled worker or engineer fight? He is over forty years old.

    You have a distorted perception of history.
    Those who were then over 40, basically, went through the civil war and at the fronts they were beaten by a huge number.
    as an example, both of my grandfathers died a heroic death during the war years and they were just the same highly skilled workers.
  • KKND
    KKND 4 January 2021 13: 08
    +8
    Quote: Free Wind
    Did a highly skilled worker or engineer fight?

    The war in the comments began who is stronger than ̶s̶l̶o̶n̶ ̶i̶l̶i̶ ̶k̶i̶t̶ a modern engineer or a Soviet peasant. But the adults, if not the elderly, gathered wassat lol
  • Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Kote Pan Kokhanka 4 January 2021 07: 48
    +8
    Quote: Stroporez
    Colleague, why are you writing this nonsense, claiming that the engineer who created the weapon and the worker who made it are less qualified in using it than an illiterate peasant ???

    And I will expand the problem from another angle. How many of our gunsmiths graduated from universities?
    Kalashnikov, Tokarev, Dragunov, Simonov, or maybe Fedorov?
    In aviation, tank building, in smaller proportions, a similar picture is drawn. Nuggets that first gave unique weapons, and then received education crusts!
    By the way, today a significant share of technical "startups" is provided not by engineers, but by nuggets.
    Engineers then really "suffer for a long time" to implement this "in metal", but this is another aspect.
    1. Korsar4
      Korsar4 4 January 2021 08: 53
      +10
      I also thought a little on this topic: in different areas. It is important to love what you do. Up to passion. And then in the process of work you will also communicate with professionals. And you will take what is necessary.

      Recently, in the process of discussion, they recalled the breeder of lilac L.A. Kolesnikov - the clearest example.
      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 4 January 2021 09: 14
        +10
        Sergey agree! Good morning however !!!
        Unfortunately, today we can trace the dogma of the "engineer-intellectual" paradigm. They say everything is "bottom", but we are !!! At the same time, they forget that the road will be mastered by the walking person and not always - these are crusts.
        By the way, the diploma of an engineer does not make the latter a designer, as well as a lawyer - a lawyer.
        So being able to create is not determined by education, but by desire multiplied by giftedness. I have seen more than once or twice "conditionally engineers" who wanted to create something, but no matter how hard they "puffed up", it turned out to be "pshik". So and vice versa, people who were converted by God, who could create, but did not have desire and desire.
        Well, somewhere like that! Good day everyone, but I forgot to Sergey - Thanks to the author for continuing the cycle, you probably quickly get used to the good!
        1. Bongo
          4 January 2021 11: 01
          +9
          Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
          Good day everyone, but I forgot to Sergey - Thanks to the author for continuing the cycle, you probably quickly get used to the good!

          Vladislav, hello!
          Thanks for the kind words! But lately I have been able to allocate very little for "writing". However, I am glad that the people comment on my articles for the most part competent and adequate, and the comments themselves contain a lot of interesting information.
        2. Korsar4
          Korsar4 4 January 2021 11: 20
          +6
          Good afternoon, Vladislav!

          I came to the same thing: there is a desire and self-education.
          Another thing is that the dignity of higher education lies in the systematic nature of knowledge.
          And yourself - snatch out the tidbits. But with pleasure.
        3. Fat
          Fat 4 January 2021 12: 30
          +6
          Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
          So being able to create is not determined by education, but by desire multiplied by giftedness. I have seen more than once or twice "conditionally engineers" who wanted to create something, but no matter how hard they "puffed up", it turned out to be "pshik". So and vice versa, people who were converted by God, who could create, but did not have desire and desire.

          Often, the task of an engineer boils down to making the solution found by a nugget "formal" - accessible to many. And to solve "in principle not solvable" is not the task of an engineer, but of people like Cristobal Khozyayevich Junta, for example. smile
          1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
            Kote Pan Kokhanka 4 January 2021 12: 51
            +4
            Quote: Thick
            Often the task of an engineer is reduced to making the solution found by a nugget "formal" - accessible to many.

            Good afternoon! Yes, I agree, it is getting harder and harder to draw up ideas. This requires a systemic knowledge of engineering.
    2. Vadim_888
      Vadim_888 4 January 2021 13: 44
      +6
      ... or maybe Fedorov?
      Vladimir Fedorov was born on May 15, 1874 in St. Petersburg in the family of the caretaker of the building of the Imperial School of Law.

      After graduating from high school, he entered the Mikhailovsky Artillery School, after graduating from which in 1895, for two years he served as a platoon commander in the XNUMXst Guards Artillery Brigade.

      In 1897 he entered the Mikhailovskaya Artillery Academy. Underwent practical training at the Sestroretsk Arms Plant
      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 4 January 2021 16: 13
        +2
        I agree. Fedorov received a classical military education. But not technical. He was not taught to be a designer, and there was no such profession in those years.
        1. Undecim
          Undecim 5 January 2021 00: 24
          +4
          I agree. Fedorov received a classical military education. But not technical
          And you ask about the program of the Mikhailovsky Artillery School and the Mikhailovsky Artillery Academy.
          The famous Soviet shipbuilder, Vladimir Alexandrovich Nikitin, graduated from the Mikhailovsky Artillery School in 1914. In 1921, he entered the shipbuilding faculty of the Petrograd Polytechnic Institute.
          At the university, having learned that he had attended the full course of the Mikhailovsky School, after a short interview, differential calculus, higher algebra, analytical geometry, physics and chemistry were counted automatically.
          And you say "not technical" education. And you are greatly mistaken in the fact that designers were not taught then.
          1. hohol95
            hohol95 6 January 2021 20: 01
            +1
            Then why did they constantly turn to "foreign firms" like the Schneider or Krupp brothers for the development of tools?
            They didn't know how to design their own?
            1. Undecim
              Undecim 6 January 2021 20: 18
              +1
              Did you study at the institute?
              1. hohol95
                hohol95 6 January 2021 20: 21
                +1
                "Lipetsk Engineering College" + "Voronezh State Agrarian University named after Emperor Peter I".
              2. Undecim
                Undecim 6 January 2021 20: 29
                +1
                And what percentage, in your opinion, of your fellow students, upon graduation, was capable of effective independent design and scientific work?
              3. hohol95
                hohol95 6 January 2021 20: 33
                +1
                None.
                All studied in order to correspond to the positions they already occupied (the head of the region of power networks, and the education of vocational schools). Or to get a crust for future career growth. My friend from a simple electrician above 1kW became a foreman.
              4. Undecim
                Undecim 6 January 2021 20: 56
                +3
                Likewise, the students of the Mikhailovsky Artillery School - some in the guard, some in the horse artillery, then in the "serfs" and the infantry. And only a few to the Academy.
                However, in the field of artillery, Russia was quite at the level.
                A. V. Gadolin, N. V. Maievsky, A.B. Dyadin P. L. Chebyshev, A. A. Fisher, A. P. Engelgardt, K. G. Guk, V. N. Mikhalovsky, V. D. Turov, V. M. Trofimov, V. S. Baranovsky ... You can enumerate a lot. The artillery was lucky here.
                The problem of the Russian artillery was not the lack of ideas, designers and scientists, but the weakness of the production base for the implementation of these ideas. Therefore, they collaborated with Krupp, Vickers, Armstrong. Schneider is a separate story. This is no longer artillery, this is corruption.
                As for the other types of weapons, there was an "ambush." ​​There were no special ideas, and the base was limping.
                That's why I wrote a comment below "And if we expand it again? If our gunsmiths graduated from universities", because there is nothing special to be proud of. The Russian Empire began the First World War, having practically not a single sample of small arms of its own design in service. And only Fedorov, who did receive a special education, was noted during this period with his "automatic".
              5. hohol95
                hohol95 10 January 2021 17: 32
                +1
                The problem of Russian artillery was not a lack of ideas, designers and scientists, but the weakness of the production base for the implementation of these ideas.

                As one friend used to say - "In theory, I am very much savvy! But in practice, everything is bad!"
      2. hohol95
        hohol95 6 January 2021 20: 29
        +1
        The Germans and Austrians got along on their own. The French and the British are the same. And the Russians, like the Japanese and the Turks, ordered the development of their own weapons to foreign firms. The Japanese even managed to "pile" their own rifle, and we got a "two-piece design". Mosin and Nagana. The Maxim machine gun, like the Vickers specialists, was not recycled.
      3. Undecim
        Undecim 6 January 2021 20: 31
        +1
        An interesting question, but let's not heap all the weapons. We started talking about artillery.
      4. hohol95
        hohol95 6 January 2021 20: 38
        +1
        Did the Astro-Hungarian army buy its artillery on the side? Factories of the Skoda type regularly created artillery pieces of various purposes and calibers for the dual monarchy.
        Even from Russia they were contacted ...
        And here after Vladimir Stepanovich Baranovsky, who was engaged in the development of tools?
      5. Undecim
        Undecim 6 January 2021 20: 57
        +2
        I have briefly answered your question above.
  • Alf
    Alf 4 January 2021 16: 53
    +4
    Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
    Engineers then really "suffer for a long time" to implement this "in metal", but this is another aspect.

    "When I remember what kind of engineer I am, I'm afraid to go to the doctor."
  • Undecim
    Undecim 5 January 2021 00: 01
    +3
    And I will expand the problem from another angle. How many of our gunsmiths graduated from universities?
    And if you expand it again? If our gunsmiths graduated from universities first, and did not start to randomly create their own samples?
    Or do you think that the barrel can be created on a whim? Or a gas engine?
  • gross kaput
    gross kaput 14 January 2021 23: 44
    +1
    Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
    And I will expand the problem from another angle. How many of our gunsmiths graduated from universities?
    Kalashnikov, Tokarev, Dragunov, Simonov, or maybe Fedorov?

    Probably for a start we should at least take an interest in their biographies? For example, Tokarev - yes, he did not graduate from academies, he graduated from the cadet school, after which he headed the weapons workshop in the troops, then graduated from the officer shooting school and was seconded to the Sestroretsk arms factory, and after that his whole life was connected with weapons production and the design of the rifle, by 30 - m years Fedor Vasilyevich already has several decades of experience in the design and manufacture of weapons.

    Kalashnikov - worked in the railway depot, served in the tank forces where he actually received the basics of technical knowledge, in the 43rd he was seconded to the Shchurov training ground where, under the leadership of Lyutoy and Deikin, he began to seriously study the design of weapons, later he played a big role in its formation and Zaitsev.
    Dragunov - graduated from the technical school, from the 30s he worked in the weapons production of Izhevsk, gradually gained experience and knowledge, by the mid 50s he became the leading designers for sports rifles, in the 58th he began the development of the future SVD.
    Etc. etc. - without even graduating from higher educational institutions, all the famous designers have been engaged in the design, manufacture, modernization of small arms for many years as a result of gaining knowledge and experience.
    Or do you think that, for example, Tokarev unharnessed the cart, gave the piglets feed and quickly drew SVT 38 on a piece of paper under the light of a candle?
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 15 January 2021 06: 11
      -1
      Do not substitute concepts!
      I wrote about higher education, where "weapons designers" are trained. Such education was not given in the Russian Empire.
      So, our gunsmiths came to their "victories" in different ways, mainly through practice. So the main thing in our arms business was not a systemic education, but "God's spark, enthusiasm or love for the cause"!
      1. gross kaput
        gross kaput 15 January 2021 21: 14
        -1
        Well, tell me, where did they give this? Paul Mauser - self-taught, D.M. Browning is self-taught, Hiram Maxim is one of them, self-taught. Maybe Schmeiser - graduated from a specialized higher institution? Or maybe Eugene Stoner? Iver Johnson?
        Until the second half of the 20th century, there were no higher educational institutions for teaching weapons designers anywhere in the world - just take it for granted and do not pull an owl on the globe.
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 15 January 2021 21: 32
          -1
          Where is the contrast between domestic and foreign designers in my comments?
          1. gross kaput
            gross kaput 18 January 2021 17: 30
            -1
            Well, you are spinning in a frying pan - then your domestic university designers did not finish, then suddenly it turns out that this kind of education was not given in RI - just not the problem is that until the first half of the 20th century such education was not given no where, therefore, opposing our designers "not to ours" according to "God's spark and experience" is stupid - ALL significant designers of that period had both, and all of them had approximately the same education, with rare exceptions, the school often did not complete.
  • Revolver
    Revolver 4 January 2021 07: 30
    +13
    Quote: Free Wind
    almost any village kid could take care of and use weapons

    Well, you do not level the kulak sawed-off of a three-line with MG-34 or the same self-loading SVT.
  • Vladimir_2U
    Vladimir_2U 4 January 2021 09: 23
    +6
    Quote: Free Wind
    The maintenance personnel from the peasants were in the qualifications higher than the current engineers. Almost every peasant had some kind of weapon in his hut.
    This is complete nonsense, it may be so now (about the maintenance of mechanics, and even then not in comparison with engineers, but on average with the townspeople), and then it was more difficult to cut a three-line or revolver and there was nothing in the villages. Tractor drivers, as the most technically literate, were called up to tank and similar troops.
    1. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 4 January 2021 11: 36
      +4
      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      Tractor drivers, as the most technically literate, were called up in tank and similar troops.

      Tractor drivers were called up as mechanics. My grandfather was a mechanic instructor, he told me.
  • Bongo
    4 January 2021 10: 54
    +11
    Quote: Free Wind
    The maintenance personnel from the peasants were in the qualifications higher than the current engineers. Almost every peasant had some kind of weapon in his hut. this is additional food and protection from dashing people. And almost any village kid could take care of weapons and use them, most urban and educated weapons did not know, and they could not imagine what to do with them.

    Please do not confuse Frolovka or Berdanka with a machine gun, especially with MG 34 or MG 42. There is no doubt that there were always savvy people and nuggets in the village, but education was required for competent maintenance of technically complex mechanisms. A striking example of this is the story of the SVT-40. This rifle was popular with the Marines, but fighters recruited from the peasants quickly rendered it unusable.
    1. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 4 January 2021 11: 40
      +2
      Quote: Bongo
      but the soldiers recruited from the peasants quickly rendered it unusable.

      Here, seriously ... I do not understand such crooked hands. Well, how can you? Do not pour oil on the rifle, but wipe it thoroughly. The oil film will remain. And dust and sand will not stick.
      1. Bongo
        4 January 2021 11: 48
        +6
        Quote: Mordvin 3
        Here, seriously ... I do not understand such crooked hands. Well, how can you? Do not pour oil on the rifle, but wipe it thoroughly. The oil film will remain. And dust and sand will not stick.

        It's not just about the lubrication. SVT-40 required more thorough cleaning and adjustment of the gas unit.
        1. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 4 January 2021 11: 53
          +1
          Quote: Bongo
          SVT-40 required more thorough cleaning and adjustment of the gas unit.

          Well, I don’t understand, what’s so difficult? On a bicycle, the spokes, in my opinion, are more difficult to adjust than the gas shutter on Svetka. And the fact that she is afraid of dirt is a well-known fact.
          1. Bongo
            4 January 2021 11: 57
            +6
            Quote: Mordvin 3
            Well, I don’t understand, what’s so difficult? On a bicycle, the spokes, in my opinion, are more difficult to adjust than the gas shutter on Svetka.

            However, this is the case. In the hands of competent shooters, the SVT-40 was a very effective weapon. The Germans and Finns appreciated this rifle.
            1. Mordvin 3
              Mordvin 3 4 January 2021 12: 01
              +5
              Quote: Bongo
              The Germans and Finns appreciated this rifle.

              And ours were appreciated. Who's hands grew correctly, and not from the priests.
        2. Free wind
          Free wind 4 January 2021 12: 05
          -4
          When there are continuous battles, it is difficult to monitor the purity of weapons, people used to die in battle from exhaustion, they just died, eternal memory to all.
        3. gross kaput
          gross kaput 18 January 2021 17: 32
          0
          What is the "more careful adjustment of the gas unit?"
      2. bubalik
        bubalik 4 January 2021 23: 04
        +1
        I do not understand such crooked hands. Well, how can you? Do not pour oil on the rifle, but wipe it thoroughly.
        fighters recruited from the peasants quickly rendered her unusable.
        ,,, and recruits? Most likely, the training on the part of the commanders and sergeants was from the word at all.
        1. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 4 January 2021 23: 22
          +3
          Quote: bubalik
          Most likely, the training on the part of the commanders and sergeants was from the word at all.

          Since I was six years old, I helped the harvester to be assembled, so I can't understand how you can not learn how to lubricate parts. The simplest actions. Really guys do not grease foxes? Although what I mean ... A neighbor taught mechanics at the institute, so one guy was told by the girls how threaded fasteners are called: "Bolt! Gadget! Screw! Screwdriver!" "Have you never had a bicycle? Was ... Have you ever repaired it? No ..." Seventeen years old student. At least stand, at least fall ...
          1. Alf
            Alf 5 January 2021 16: 32
            0
            Quote: Mordvin 3
            Have you ever repaired it? No..."

            Maybe he was great and eternal, did not break? laughing
        2. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 7 January 2021 06: 46
          +1
          Quote: bubalik
          ,,, and recruits? Most likely, the training on the part of the commanders and sergeants was from the word at all.

          The knowledge of the junior commanding staff is weak, but nevertheless, the weapons in the unit know better than the commanding staff.
          The knowledge of ordinary cadets is low.
          They are completely unaware of automatic weapons and can only carry rifles and pull the trigger. Extremely poor knowledge of the materiel of small arms and, besides, the gunners do not know at all the names of the parts of the DP machine gun and the revolver. Machine gunners do not know the name of the parts and the rules for disassembling the rifle. To great shame, and chagrin, cadet regiment schools have lesser knowledge of small arms than the knowledge of the Red Army, and yet despite this they are issued by junior commanders.
          There is no need to talk about the rules, cleaning weapons, and their inspection by younger commanders.

          © The KOVO weapons verification act for the 1940th year.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • sifgame
    sifgame 4 January 2021 21: 08
    0
    Judging by your statement, you e-d_iot
  • Alexey RA
    Alexey RA 7 January 2021 06: 42
    0
    Quote: Free Wind
    The maintenance personnel from the peasants were in the qualifications higher than the current engineers.

    In parts of 97 SD rifles manufactured in 1940. , which were on hand for no more than 4 months, up to 29% are reduced to a state of rust in the barrel, machine guns "DP" manufactured in 1939 to 14% also have a deterioration of the barrel channels.
    © The KOVO weapons verification act for the 1940th year.
  • figwam
    figwam 4 January 2021 10: 10
    0
    You can now purchase a Yugoslav version of the MG-42 called MG-53.
  • Mordvin 3
    Mordvin 3 4 January 2021 05: 42
    +4
    Quote: Tucan
    In my opinion, the author is right, the German MG-34/42 were superior in performance to Soviet machine guns. It is unclear why trophy machine guns were used in a limited way.

    Yeah. These quick-shooters fired a bunch of cartridges in a couple of seconds. Up to one and a half thousand per minute. Where to get so many cartridges?
    1. Toucan
      Toucan 4 January 2021 05: 45
      +3
      Quote: mordvin xnumx
      Quote: Tucan
      In my opinion, the author is right, the German MG-34/42 were superior in performance to Soviet machine guns. It is unclear why trophy machine guns were used in a limited way.

      Yeah. These quick-shooters fired a bunch of cartridges in a couple of seconds. Up to one and a half thousand per minute. Where to get so many cartridges?

      EMNIP, our waxes captured several billion German 7,92mm rifle cartridges. So, that is probably not the case.
      1. apro
        apro 4 January 2021 05: 46
        +3
        Quote: Tucan
        our waxes captured several billion German 7,92-mm rifle cartridges.

        At the end of the war ...
      2. Mordvin 3
        Mordvin 3 4 January 2021 05: 46
        +1
        Quote: Tucan
        EMNIP, our waxes captured several billion German 7,92mm rifle cartridges. So, that is probably not the case.

        What year?
      3. faiver
        faiver 4 January 2021 09: 02
        +2
        yeah, and they sent these billions to the partisans in echelons lol
        1. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 4 January 2021 09: 20
          +1
          Quote: faiver
          yeah, and they sent these billions to the partisans in echelons

          Ammunition okay, but where to get machine-gun belts? And Rakov has not yet invented a typewriter. And to equip the ribbons with your fingers is still that hemorrhoids.
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 4 January 2021 15: 56
            +1
            to equip the ribbons with your fingers - still that hemorrhoids.

            They also did something in the detachments, for example, submachine guns of their own manufacture, let alone fill the tape ...
            1. Mordvin 3
              Mordvin 3 4 January 2021 16: 00
              +3
              Quote: Sea Cat
              and fill the tape ...

              Try it. Fill all the calluses, along with the tape. How the machine gunners rejoiced over Rakov's machine. Meat grinder...
              1. Catfish
                Catfish 4 January 2021 16: 09
                +4
                And you try.

                I've tried it. On our "half-fours" there were SGMT, course and coupled. We had problems with the Chinese at that time, and we often rode the TST, but I have never seen a charging machine in all three years of service - we did everything with pens.
                So the soldiers of the Great War should not be considered more inept than we, sinners.
                1. Mordvin 3
                  Mordvin 3 4 January 2021 16: 12
                  +2
                  Quote: Sea Cat
                  I've tried it.

                  All 500 rounds, what were the machine gunners offered by the staff? Or 750? I forgot ...
                  1. Catfish
                    Catfish 4 January 2021 16: 13
                    +3
                    The ribbons were 250 rounds, there were four people in the crew, so count yourself.
                    And nobody touched the NZ, how it was loaded and stored. And for everything else there is an artillery warehouse, they probably had cars, but I did not see them, although I drank vodka with warehouse in their cubicle.
                    1. Mordvin 3
                      Mordvin 3 4 January 2021 16: 16
                      0
                      Quote: Sea Cat
                      The ribbons were 250 rounds, there were four people in the crew, so count yourself.

                      Eh, no ... I mean the landing. A full erdeshka was stuffed with ribbons.
                    2. Catfish
                      Catfish 4 January 2021 16: 17
                      +1
                      I did not serve in the landing, my hemorrhoids were enough.
                    3. Mordvin 3
                      Mordvin 3 4 January 2021 16: 19
                      0
                      Quote: Sea Cat
                      I did not serve in the landing, my hemorrhoids were enough.

                      Whoa ... And the smallest were selected for the machine gunners. laughing
                    4. Catfish
                      Catfish 4 January 2021 16: 27
                      +3
                      And what is Vot? What little ones? About the tank ones, too, whistled that the selection was shorter, but we had such foreheads - they could not fit in the tower. laughing
                    5. Mordvin 3
                      Mordvin 3 4 January 2021 16: 29
                      0
                      Quote: Sea Cat
                      And what is Vot? What little ones?

                      And you will see where the machine gunners are marching on the parade. What we have, what they have, in the very last ranks. laughing
                    6. Catfish
                      Catfish 4 January 2021 16: 41
                      +1
                      So the smallest ones always walked in the first rows, and no matter what in their hands, not an indicator, besides, the angle can be deceiving.
  • Bongo
    4 January 2021 11: 58
    +6
    Quote: faiver
    yeah, and they sent these billions to the partisans in echelons lol

    Andrey, I certainly appreciate your joke of humor. But tell me, how were Soviet pistol and rifle cartridges transported to the partisans?
    1. faiver
      faiver 4 January 2021 12: 13
      0
      Partisan hostilities have a low intensity, some of the pre-war bookmarks, something thrown during the retreat by the regular army, something was thrown by aviation, and something was repulsed from the enemy, because the Germans captured a huge amount of our weapons ... hi
      1. Bongo
        4 January 2021 12: 19
        +6
        Quote: faiver
        Guerrilla fighting is of low intensity

        It happened in different ways ...
        Quote: faiver
        some of the pre-war bookmarks, some thrown during the retreat by the regular army, something thrown by aviation

        The pre-war bookmarks did not make much of the weather, aviation could just as well deliver captured ammunition, which, incidentally, sometimes happened. In any case, the partisan detachments had a lot of captured weapons.
        1. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 4 January 2021 12: 22
          -1
          Quote: Bongo
          In any case, the partisan detachments had a lot of captured weapons.

          It is very interesting that the partisan detachments organized the NKVD. yes
          1. faiver
            faiver 4 January 2021 23: 29
            0
            The partisan detachments organized everything, including the NKVD, and what is unusual about the NKVD organizing the partisan detachments?
        2. faiver
          faiver 4 January 2021 12: 25
          0
          in different ways, but battles at the level of regular armies are more likely an exception than a rule, guerrilla tactics are, after all, an unexpected blow and a quick retreat, there are no such masses of manpower, respectively, and the need for ammunition is much smaller hi
    2. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 4 January 2021 15: 02
      -1
      Quote: Bongo
      But tell me, how were Soviet pistol and rifle cartridges transported to the partisans?

      On parachutes. This is written in Medvedev's memoirs. "It was near Rivne."
    3. dzvero
      dzvero 5 January 2021 10: 04
      +2
      For the sake of truth, there is some truth in faiver's jokes smile
      https://topwar.ru/23820-zabytye-geroi.html
      or the same from another site:
      http://www.bigler.ru/printable.php?story_id=A6770
      The case is unique, but nevertheless ...
      PS Happy New Year! Your cycles turn out to be wonderful, from the last I especially liked about light attack aircraft.
  • Catfish
    Catfish 4 January 2021 15: 54
    +2
    Only MG42 had a high rate of fire, hence the nickname "Hitler's circular", MG34 had quite an average rate of fire. And about the expense of ammunition - a machine gun is not a rifle, you also need to be able to handle it, and for some "dancers" everything in the world interferes. Bad weapons are not copied, and MG42 was copied and is still copied by many countries.
  • YOUR
    YOUR 4 January 2021 05: 57
    +2
    At that time, we did not have uniform machine guns. You can compare our DP-27 with the ZB-26, ZB-30, in principle, with a slight stretch of the MG-34/42 with the Goryunov machine gun. SG-43, the body of the machine gun weighed about 14 kg., MG-34 - about 11 kg, MG-42 is approaching 12. Those. if we hypothetically assume the use of the SG-43 as a manual one with a stock, then it is quite at the level of the German ones. But it did not grow together, they decided to make it easel.
    1. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 4 January 2021 06: 11
      -5
      Quote: YOUR
      with a Goryunov machine gun.

      Well, if it comes to that, then the DShK was. Browning, by the way, consulted with Degtyarev. He gave him the idea that the barrel would not be thrown.
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 4 January 2021 16: 03
        +1
        I am aware that Degtyarev met with Browning (from his own, Degtyarev, memoirs), but it was under the "tsar-priest", it would be interesting to know from you any such idea Degtyarev suggested to Browning, so that " tossed "? And in general, it is interesting, with some kind of interest, an eminent gunsmith by that time, climbed for advice to an ordinary locksmith, who was Degtyarev at that time?
        1. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 4 January 2021 16: 10
          -2
          Quote: Sea Cat
          It would be interesting to know from you any such idea Degtyarev suggested to Browning, so that he would not "throw up the trunk"?

          He kind of mowed the trunk. Well, I read this in the Komsomolskaya Pravda, and they burned down their archive.
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 4 January 2021 16: 12
            +2
            He kind of mowed the trunk.

            WHERE TO? And the newspaper is not a source of technical information, they will write to you there ... laughing
        2. gross kaput
          gross kaput 14 January 2021 23: 57
          0
          Quote: Sea Cat
          Degtyarev met with Browning (from his own, Degtyarev, memoirs), but this was still under the "Tsar-Father"

          Uh-huh met, but not with John Moses, and that character is not even a namesake, although in the Russian transcription the names sound the same. And the "real" Browning has never been to Russia.
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 21 January 2021 20: 04
            0
            This is not for me, but for Degtyarev and his memoirs. request
      2. gross kaput
        gross kaput 14 January 2021 23: 46
        -1
        Rzhak, especially if you take into account that the fifty-kopeck piece was put into production in the 21st and the DK in the 31st.
    2. sibiryouk
      sibiryouk 4 January 2021 09: 36
      +1
      I completely agree with you, but about domestic light machine guns, there is a good series of articles in the KALASHNIKOV magazine, called the machine gun drama of the Red Army.
      1. YOUR
        YOUR 4 January 2021 14: 37
        -1
        Will need to find a read. Thanks for the tip.
    3. DesToeR
      DesToeR 4 January 2021 15: 50
      -3
      Quote: YOUR
      At that time we did not have uniform machine guns

      Well, it depends ... Degtyarevs on tanks, infantry and aviation had a great degree of unification with each other.
      Quote: YOUR
      You can compare our DP-27 with the ZB-26, ZB-30, in principle with a slight stretch of the MG-34/42 with the Goryunov machine gun. SG-43, the body of the machine gun weighed about 14 kg., MG-34 - about 11 kg, MG-42 is approaching 12.

      DP-27 can be very easily compared with MG-34 in a squad, and this comparison will not always be in favor of MG-34, especially in a mobile war, and even in an offensive. If we talk about the "machine tool", then the grandfathers were not stupid and ordered in the middle of the war an easel SG-43 on a carriage with a wheel drive. The grandfathers knew where (according to the staffing table) in the Red Army and the Wehrmacht there were easel machine guns, they also knew what it was like to drag a "machine gun" across the battlefield without wheels in an offensive, i.e. "on the weight" - the handles of the machine gun crew itself. The weight of the SG-43 on the machine with wheels is 36,9 kg, the weight of the MG-42 on the machine is 32,07 kg.
      To all fans of the German wunderwaffe MG-34 / MG-42, I have one simple question: why today both we and the United States use the good old concept with light machine guns in infantry squads (RPK-74 / Mini), not unified with easel ones? Well, all right, the grandfathers "did not catch up" with all the genius of the gloomy Teutonic genius, but what are we "stupid" for?
  • Siberian 66
    Siberian 66 4 January 2021 06: 46
    0
    It was necessary either to buy a license while visiting each other, or to copy it stupidly before the war. Machine guns are very good in mobility and firepower and very often decided the outcome of our infantry attacks, especially in the early stages of the war, when head-on attacks were the most common. Our front-line soldiers spoke of the firepower of these machines very, very hostile.
    1. Kot_Kuzya
      Kot_Kuzya 4 January 2021 07: 01
      -6
      Quote: Sibiryak 66
      It was necessary either to buy a license while visiting each other, or to copy it stupidly before the war

      All cooperation with the Germans ended in 1933 after Hitler came to power, who hated the Communists. And the MG-34 was accepted into service in 1934. It was impossible to copy the MG-34 due to the fact that the Soviet cartridge had a rim.
      1. Siberian 66
        Siberian 66 4 January 2021 07: 18
        +4
        On February 11, 1940, an economic agreement between the USSR and Germany was signed in Moscow. It provided that the Soviet Union would supply Germany with goods in the amount of 420-430 million German marks in 12 months, that is, until February 11, 1941. Germany was obliged to supply the USSR with military materials and industrial equipment for the same amount in 15 months,
        The agreement provided that the USSR would supply Germany
        1 000 000 tons of feed grain and legumes worth 120 million Reichsmarks
        900 000 tons of oil worth about 115 million Reichsmarks
        100 000 tons of cotton worth about 90 million Reichsmarks
        500 000 tons of phosphate
        100 000 tons of chromite ores
        500 000 tons of iron ore
        300 000 tons of pig iron scrap and pig iron
        2 400 kg of platinum
        To ensure the fulfillment of its orders, the USSR undertook to supply Germany over the next 18 months with 11 tons of copper, 000 tons of nickel, 3000 tons of zinc, 950 tons of molybdenum, 500 tons of tungsten ...
        The USSR, in exchange, received the unfinished heavy cruiser Luttsov and the equipment necessary to complete its construction; samples of naval artillery, mines, torpedoes, periscopes; samples of the latest aircraft models; samples of artillery, tanks, communications. Also, samples of more than 300 types of machine tools and machines: excavators, drilling rigs, electric motors, compressors, pumps, steam turbines, oil equipment, etc.

        Of course, not everything worked out, not everything. But we are not talking about the termination of cooperation)
        1. Kot_Kuzya
          Kot_Kuzya 4 January 2021 08: 19
          -5
          Quote: Sibiryak 66
          Of course, not everything worked out, not everything. But we are not talking about the termination of cooperation)

          Why are liberals so fond of lying and distorting? I meant that at the time the MG-34 was put into service, the USSR and Germany did not cooperate with each other. Cooperation was resumed in the summer of 1939, when Hitler, before the attack on Poland and the probable war with Britain and France, took care of expanding trade relations with neighbors. One of the conditions for concluding a Non-Aggression Pact between the USSR and Germany was the allocation of a preferential loan by Germany to the USSR in the amount of 200 million gold marks, with a gold content of one mark of 0,35 g of gold, this is 70 tons of gold - a very rather large amount. And when liberals like to repeat Rezun's words that Stalin had sent trains with grain to Hitler before June 22, it was precisely the payment of this very loan with grain and other raw materials, while the USSR bought many samples of the latest military equipment for these 200 million marks , machine tools and equipment, on which later, during the war, they produced weapons, equipment and ammunition, with which they crushed the Germans. From mid-1933 to mid-1939, trade relations between the USSR and Germany were reduced to almost zero, and there is no need to talk about military and political cooperation, they were completely severed altogether.
        2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 4 January 2021 09: 17
          +7
          Countryman the key word in the date of signing the treaty is February 11, 1940!
          Good day.
    2. Revolver
      Revolver 4 January 2021 07: 41
      +10
      Quote: Sibiryak 66
      It was necessary either to buy a license while visiting each other, or to copy it stupidly before the war.

      The cartridge would have to be "stupidly copied", because the Russian / Soviet cartridge 7.62x54R has a rim, and the German cartridge has a groove. Accordingly, all the automatics worked differently, the German cartridge can be fed from the tape "for flashing", and the Russian cartridge must be pulled out in reverse.
      And changing all rifles for a new cartridge, and disposing of billions of cartridges accumulated since tsarist times, is too expensive. As well as having a variety of cartridges is too dreary. And therefore - DP and Maxim rule.
    3. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 4 January 2021 08: 03
      +6
      Quote: Sibiryak 66
      It was necessary either to buy a license while visiting each other, or to copy it stupidly before the war.


      We had plans to produce a licensed copy of the Deza light machine gun, but the MG-13 turned out to be worse than Degtyarev. In addition, before the beginning of the Great Patriotic War, we had already established the production of DS-39. So the main hopes were pinned on him.
    4. Bongo
      4 January 2021 11: 07
      +6
      Quote: Sibiryak 66
      It was necessary either to buy a license while visiting each other, or to copy it stupidly before the war.

      It should not be forgotten that the German machine guns used a flangeless cartridge with a groove, 7,92 mm caliber. In addition, MG-34s were much more complicated and more expensive than DP-27 and Maxim. For the manufacture of MG-34, more precise machining and highly skilled workers were required.
    5. Alf
      Alf 4 January 2021 17: 09
      +5
      Quote: Sibiryak 66
      It was necessary either to buy a license while visiting each other, or to copy it stupidly before the war.

      Oh well. If the Hans themselves found the 34th difficult to manufacture ...
      Remind me how much you "liked" the DC-39 before the war?
  • svp67
    svp67 4 January 2021 09: 11
    +5
    Quote: Tucan
    It is unclear why trophy machine guns were used in a limited way.

    Why is there anything incomprehensible, but where to get ammunition and spare parts for them? DP, "Maxim" and SG-43 used the same cartridge as the mosinka ...
  • meandr51
    meandr51 4 January 2021 17: 43
    0
    I read the memoirs of a former machine gunner who did not like everything Soviet (well, there was such a hidden dissident) and loved everything German, about which he constantly wrote. But even he was unable to shoot from the MG-34. He never fired a single shot at him, no matter how hard he tried. I threw it away and took the DP again.
  • Ivan Cholev
    Ivan Cholev 4 January 2021 20: 22
    0
    What is not clear then.
    The Russians 1941-1945 did not have the Internet and did not know that the MG is a super machine gun. So they used it limited. MG has been promoting in recent years on the same Internet.
    1. Mister X
      Mister X 10 February 2021 17: 21
      0
      Quote: Ivan Cholev
      MG have been promoting in recent years on the same Internet

      Please don't post nonsense.
  • Viktor Sergeev
    Viktor Sergeev 4 January 2021 22: 23
    -2
    They just could not agree with the Germans on the supply of cartridges, Hitler stubbornly rested, that's a bastard.
    Are you suggesting to ours to organize the production of cartridges for a German machine gun at a time when there was no havatalo for their own?
  • Alien From
    Alien From 4 January 2021 05: 24
    -10%
    Thanks dear author! But personally, I will not forget how these machine guns were directed against us! Excuse me.
    1. YOUR
      YOUR 4 January 2021 05: 48
      +7
      The author writes about this, and he also writes that these machine guns were used, incl. against those who made them and came to us. The use of captured German machine guns in the USSR. As they say with your sword, you are in the head.
    2. Pessimist22
      Pessimist22 4 January 2021 06: 11
      +8
      It's not machine guns that kill people.
    3. Bongo
      4 January 2021 11: 09
      +5
      Quote: Alien From
      But personally, I will not forget how these machine guns were directed against us!

      Is this the author's fault? what
  • Mordvin 3
    Mordvin 3 4 January 2021 06: 03
    +2
    MG 34 and MG 42 were actively used against UN troops in Korea.
    Comrade Author! If sclerosis does not confuse me, then MG-42 was in service with the German army. Until the end of the 80s. Only the name was changed. I buried the book somewhere. "Infantry weapons" is called. Infa from there.
    1. Kot_Kuzya
      Kot_Kuzya 4 January 2021 06: 08
      +6
      It still stands under the name MG-3, at the beginning of the 50s the Germans remade the MG-42 under NATO patron 7,62 * 51 and named it MG-3.
      1. Mister X
        Mister X 4 January 2021 08: 16
        +6
        Quote: Kot_Kuzya
        MG-42 chambered for NATO 7,62 * 51 and named it MG-3.

        hi
        The Bundeswehr adopted the MG42 machine gun chambered for NATO under the designation MG1 (1958).
        In 1960, an improved version of the MG1 (60+ changes) was adopted under the designation MG3.
      2. Mister X
        Mister X 4 January 2021 08: 18
        +10

        Soldiers of the Kirov partisan detachment (Minsk region) 1943 with the German Maxim machine gun.


        Also, apparently, a partisan with an MG8 machine gun.
        1. Bongo
          4 January 2021 11: 11
          +8
          Quote: Mister X

          Soldiers of the Kirov partisan detachment (Minsk region) 1943 with the German Maxim machine gun.


          Also, apparently, a partisan with an MG8 machine gun.

          Michael, welcome!
          Thanks for the credit photos! good
          They really have the same machine gunner with MG 08/15. yes
          1. Mister X
            Mister X 4 January 2021 11: 42
            +5
            Quote: Bongo
            Michael, welcome!

            hi
            Quote: Bongo
            Thanks for the credit photos!

            You are welcome )
            Quote: Bongo
            same machine gunner with MG 08/15

            His buttstock is of some strange shape.
            Don't you find?
            1. Bongo
              4 January 2021 11: 46
              +4
              Quote: Mister X
              His buttstock is of some strange shape.
              Don't you find?

              It looks like the butt is not native, it has already been replaced by another.
              1. Mister X
                Mister X 4 January 2021 12: 10
                +3
                Quote: Bongo
                not native, already replaced by another.

                Is it a samopal?
                The butt on the Soviet DP Degtyarev of a different form (it was produced in large quantities, it could get to the partisans)
                The Finnish Lahti / Saloranta 26, and the Czech ZB26 / ZB30 also have a different shape.


                There was a version that this is a custom Maxim machine gun, model 1910/30 (Soviet).
                Without a machine, with a homemade butt and bipod.
                But in the Soviet era, the tape was made of cloth.
                And in the photo it is metal.
                So this is definitely German.
            2. Catfish
              Catfish 4 January 2021 16: 20
              +2
              Misha, hello!
              His buttstock is of some strange shape.

              So it's probably homemade, they didn't even paint it. Partisans ... smile
              1. Mister X
                Mister X 4 January 2021 19: 17
                +2
                Quote: Sea Cat
                Misha, hello!

                Priet!
                Quote: Sea Cat
                probably homemade, not even painted. Partisans ...

                But it shoots, not like a pirate's piece of iron in red
                see below wink
                1. Catfish
                  Catfish 5 January 2021 09: 54
                  +2
                  I saw this "eagle", in such an outfit he doesn't need a trunk in figs, the people will get away from fear anyway. laughing
                  They are "creative" guys and do not hold imagination. wassat
                  1. Mister X
                    Mister X 5 January 2021 10: 23
                    +3
                    Quote: Sea Cat
                    Creative "they are guys and fantasies do not take

                    Suvorov's tactics are used: not by number, but by skill and ingenuity wink
                  2. Alf
                    Alf 5 January 2021 16: 34
                    +1
                    Quote: Sea Cat
                    They are "creative" guys and do not hold imagination.

                    That would be a little crazy ...
                    1. Catfish
                      Catfish 5 January 2021 16: 37
                      0
                      That would be a little crazy ...


                      "Zist, he is zist, the one who will give him!" (C) laughing
                2. Catfish
                  Catfish 5 January 2021 10: 08
                  +1
                  I found another one here - God forbid I dream at night.
                  1. Mister X
                    Mister X 5 January 2021 10: 25
                    +3
                    Quote: Sea Cat
                    Found another one here

                    Did you find his monkey?
                    1. Catfish
                      Catfish 5 January 2021 10: 54
                      -1
                      Found her cousin, even more "advanced" shot.
                  2. Alf
                    Alf 5 January 2021 16: 42
                    +1
                    Quote: Sea Cat
                    I found another one here - God forbid I dream at night.

                    Mum and dad, you see, have gobbled up GMO products, so it turned out "neither in a fairy tale, nor describe it with a pen."
                    1. Catfish
                      Catfish 5 January 2021 17: 17
                      0
                      I do not know what they ate, but the face still turned out.
        2. Avior
          Avior 4 January 2021 11: 54
          +6
          Let's hope the photo is staged.
          Resting the butt against the machine gun belt on the shoulder is not the wisest decision
          1. Bongo
            4 January 2021 12: 04
            +6
            Quote: Avior
            Let's hope the photo is staged.
            Resting the butt against the machine gun belt on the shoulder is not the wisest decision

            Certainly staged. yes The same machine gunner is shot from different angles.
          2. Mister X
            Mister X 4 January 2021 12: 45
            +5
            Quote: Avior
            hope the photo is staged.

            Of course staged.
            During combat, people and weapons don't look like that.
            The photo could be taken by a newspaper correspondent from the "Big Land".
            Or maybe they made their own for history.
            Only in the detachment to them. Kirov, more than 300 people fought.
            It is reliably known that in the detachment of the Kirov brigade (Porozovsky and Volkovysky districts) there was a typewriter.
            And in the partisan detachment of the brigade. Chapaeva even had her own printing house, which published the Svislochskaya Pravda newspaper.
      3. Mister X
        Mister X 4 January 2021 08: 23
        +10
        And these are Somali pirates of the 21st century wink
        Machine gun as a weapon of intimidation
        The trunk seems to be there
        1. Bongo
          4 January 2021 11: 12
          +8
          Quote: Mister X
          And these are the Somali pirates of the 21st century wink
          Machine gun as a weapon of intimidation
          There seems to be no trunk there

          Definitely not...
          And so, yes ... very scary. lol
          1. Mister X
            Mister X 4 January 2021 11: 45
            +5
            Quote: Bongo
            very scary

            Gopniks ...
        2. dzvero
          dzvero 5 January 2021 10: 13
          +2
          There seems to be no trunk there

          Maybe a sawed-off shotgun for close combat? smile But most likely, yes - a club with a handle
          1. Mister X
            Mister X 5 January 2021 10: 27
            +3
            Quote: dzvero
            most likely yes - a club with a handle

            Aha, club! To shrug off counters wink
    2. uladzimir.surko
      uladzimir.surko 4 January 2021 06: 09
      +3
      Until now it is used under the name mg-3
      1. Mordvin 3
        Mordvin 3 4 January 2021 06: 13
        +5
        Quote: uladzimir.surko
        Until now it is used under the name mg-3

        That's why I love the military review. And they will remind and correct. drinks
  • Konnick
    Konnick 4 January 2021 06: 14
    +1
    Quote: Tucan
    In my opinion, the author is right, the German MG-34/42 were superior in performance to Soviet machine guns. It is unclear why trophy machine guns were used in a limited way.

    There was no need, the author wrote:
    By the second half of 1943, Germany had lost its strategic initiative. By that time, Soviet troops were fully equipped with domestically produced small arms. And there was no particular need for captured machine guns.

    Our troops were packed with submachine guns. The performance characteristics of the PPSh were very suitable for the nature of the fighting. Offensive battles on rough terrain, in the forest and in urban conditions took place at close distances and the power of rifle units armed with PPSh surpassed the German ones even without machine guns. A machine gun required three people per crew, which is minus two people per unit, besides, mobility in close combat is very important. And there were enough support machine guns on the accompanying tanks, and you can't put a trophy there. Moreover, a machine-gun crew is a priority target for both a tank and a sniper, and a company of machine gunners ... their eyes run up, all with machine guns, albeit with a pistol cartridge.
    1. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 4 January 2021 06: 17
      0
      Quote: Konnick
      And there were enough support machine guns on the accompanying tanks.

      There was a tank Degtyarev.
  • Konnick
    Konnick 4 January 2021 06: 40
    +1
    Quote: mordvin xnumx
    Quote: Konnick
    And there were enough support machine guns on the accompanying tanks.

    There was a tank Degtyarev.

    Shumbrat, I know. I want to add - dragging with a heavy tripod and boxes through ravines, forests and ruins is still a pleasure, then collecting it. Such a MG34,42 machine gun was needed in stationary defense. And in maneuvering defense, machine guns on armored vehicles were usually used. I think now you don't need light machine guns, it is much more effective than one machine gun to have two or three extra sniper rifles.
    1. vch62388
      vch62388 4 January 2021 08: 31
      +4
      In a stationary defense, the best is just Maxim with his water-cooled barrel and allowing you to shoot sooo long bursts. This is how the Finns stopped the attacks of the Soviet infantry in 1939. As for the machine guns on armored vehicles: "through ravines, forests and ruins" the armor will not run away very quickly. And having a light machine gun chambered for a powerful rifle cartridge is good for your health.
    2. Alf
      Alf 4 January 2021 17: 15
      +3
      Quote: Konnick
      I think now there is no need for light machine guns, it is much more effective than one machine gun to have two or three extra sniper rifles.

      More often, you need to bluntly crush with fire, especially at close range.
  • bubalik
    bubalik 4 January 2021 09: 08
    +10
    Zhorka Vitkovsky, busily adjusting the iron band to the captured MG machine gun, taken from the murdered German while still at the crossing, half-amused, half-angry cursed, glancing sideways at the second number.
    Battalions ask for fire

  • faiver
    faiver 4 January 2021 09: 09
    +5
    plus to the author, as always, excellently served and chewed material good
  • bubalik
    bubalik 4 January 2021 09: 53
    +8
    ,,, interesting application.

    1. faiver
      faiver 4 January 2021 12: 28
      0
      If you want to live, you will not get it right
    2. Michael
      Michael 4 January 2021 23: 19
      -3
      Golny photoshop, and the fighter in the photo will shoot any Darth Vader with a machine gun, he is a Jedi for life)))))).
      1. zyablik.olga
        zyablik.olga 5 January 2021 11: 45
        +2
        Quote: Michael
        Golny photoshop, and the fighter in the photo will shoot any Darth Vader with a machine gun, he is a Jedi for life)))))).

        The photo is real.
  • Undecim
    Undecim 4 January 2021 10: 15
    +5
    In 1938, the firm Metall-und Lackwarenfabrik Johannes Großfuß presented its own version of the machine gun, which, like the MG 34, had a short barrel stroke with the bolt locking rollers with a set to the sides
    The author, for the MG-34 machine gun, the barrel is locked by turning the rotating combat cylinder of the bolt for a special coupling rigidly fixed to the breech of the barrel. The rotation of the combat bolt larva is carried out by the interaction of rollers located on it with curly grooves made on the inner walls of the receiver.

    Shutter MG-34.
    1. Undecim
      Undecim 4 January 2021 10: 22
      +4
      Compared to the MG 34, the cost of the MG 42 has dropped by about 30%.
      By 20%. From 310 to 250 Reichsmarks. At today's prices - from 1230 to 990 euros.
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 4 January 2021 10: 37
        +3
        Until 1943, inclusive, the Wehrmacht and Waffen-SS used the Knorr-Bremse MG-35/36 machine gun.

        Moreover, judging by the finds of "black diggers", it is quite intense.
        1. Undecim
          Undecim 4 January 2021 11: 24
          +5
          Used by the Wehrmacht, albeit in small quantities, an Austrian-made machine gun - Maschinengewehr Solothurn 1930.
      2. KKND
        KKND 4 January 2021 14: 47
        +2
        Quote: Undecim
        By 20%. From 310 to 250 Reichsmarks. At today's prices - from 1230 to 990 euros.

        Could it be the Reichsmark inflation?
        Quote: Bongo
        The MG 34 took approximately 49 kg of metal and 150 man-hours to manufacture. And on MG 42 - 27,5 kg and 75 man-hours.

        It seems to me that these are more objective indicators than money subject to inflation / deflation.
        In general, considering the cost of producing something is a very slippery and difficult topic. There is not even a generally accepted methodology. In theory, it is necessary to count all the work of people, from those who feed and shoes production workers and ending with those who feed those who shoes those who produce. Not feasible in practice.
        But counting money is also not the case. Here you have to sit at a production plant and then it will become more or less clear how much easier it was for MG 42 to do than MG 34.
        1. Undecim
          Undecim 4 January 2021 14: 59
          +2
          Could it be the Reichsmark inflation?
          Machine guns were produced simultaneously until 1945.
  • parusnik
    parusnik 4 January 2021 10: 29
    +4
    Good stuff, we look forward to continuing ..
  • Catfish
    Catfish 4 January 2021 10: 39
    +10
    Good morning, Sergey! smile
    Thanks for your New Year gift. I love to read your articles, so it seems that I myself in the subject and I know the hardware firsthand, but still interesting.
    From the review you presented, there was practically everything in our department, there was even a "samovar pipe" based on MG08, on a nightmare bipod. For ten years, of course, I shoveled everything and found out that any German is the most comfortable in disassembly and assembly, they knew how to do, "bastards". But who got it for real, it was a Czech ZB-53, there were no instructions, but the machine gun was completely new and we disassembled it, and we collected it later, insert it into the barrel, well, it didn't work out, we came to a complete brutality , and then suddenly he himself got into place, what was the matter, no one understood. The guys in the Museum of the Armed Forces had the same story, but they had instructions, it did not help absolutely, but the barrel was still installed.
    By the way, I saw photos of this machine gun on the tank bollard of the Free Cuban Coast Guard boats, so, we even got there. smile
    1. Bongo
      4 January 2021 11: 36
      +8
      Quote: Sea Cat
      Good morning, Sergey! smile
      Thanks for your New Year gift. I love to read your articles, so it seems that I myself in the subject and I know the hardware firsthand, but still interesting.
      From the review you presented, there was practically everything in our department, there was even a "samovar pipe" based on MG08, on a nightmare bipod. For ten years, of course, I shoveled everything and found out that any German is the most comfortable in disassembly and assembly, they knew how to do, "bastards". But who got it for real, it was a Czech ZB-53, there were no instructions, but the machine gun was completely new and we disassembled it, and we collected it later, insert it into the barrel, well, it didn't work out, we came to a complete brutality , and then suddenly he himself got into place, what was the matter, no one understood. The guys in the Museum of the Armed Forces had the same story, but they had instructions, it did not help absolutely, but the barrel was still installed.
      By the way, I saw photos of this machine gun on the tank bollard of the Free Cuban Coast Guard boats, so, we even got there. smile

      Konstantin, hello!
      What kind of department is this? Honestly, I envy you for the good! I would very much like to tinker with weapons rarities.
      Apart from the TT, Nagant, KO-44 and PPS-43, I didn’t use anything from the weapons of the Second World War. I had a chance to shoot from the first three. From the short-barreled, the most favorable impression remained from the Nagan, given that my hand was not a large grip, and the relatively small recoil did not cause discomfort. With a preliminary platoon, the Nagant demonstrated very good accuracy. TT frankly frightened with a sharp unpredictable descent and strong recoil, besides, it has no ergonomics. I did not "understand" the carbine at the Mosinka base, the weapon was shot, but the bullets fell higher than the place where they were aiming, although this was not the case with the SCS request
      As for the ZB-53, the Czechs in the 60s supplied Cuba with a lot of small arms, including machine guns.
      With "writing" in recent years, everything is difficult for me, time is sorely lacking. I am writing only about what is interesting for myself, but "shooter" is clearly not what I am strong at. So, "knocking down the tops" ...
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 4 January 2021 12: 06
        +13
        What kind of department is this?

        Department of Weapons of the State Historical Museum. At first I went there to visit, my friend, Valera Durov from numismatics (maybe they read him) introduced him to Yura Shokorev (he also has something to read about barrels), and since all the scientific topics in the department's weapons ended in the first half of the 19th century, modern weapons There was no one to study. Well, and about a year later I was offered to take over this hardware, so, having taken the position of an artist-restorer, I practically did not deal with this restoration, but basically my business was systematization, description and putting in order of modern samples. So I worked there from the eightieth year until the early nineties, then there was no good time, I had to somehow feed my family and I left the museum. Now the composition of the museum has changed, and I have no one left there, and the times are different now, people are too fond of money, otherwise I would try to bring you together.
        As for "writing", then I, and not only, like your articles, so "... do not give up your efforts, Maestro ..." (c), fortunately you are not "floating on the top". smile
        Greetings and my best wishes to your wife. love She's right - your job is needed. smile

        This is even before working in the department, the lower (cold) storage. Whenever possible, he liked to act in films, so that later he could tell his friends-buddies - here you know everything from the movies, but in my nature, he was young. laughing
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 4 January 2021 12: 16
          +5
          Valera Durov from numismatics (may have read it)
          I read on your advice.
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 4 January 2021 12: 28
            +5
            Hello Anton. hi
            He has a lot of things, orders, award weapons, you can't list everything.
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 4 January 2021 12: 41
              +5
              I read "Russian and Soviet Orders".
              1. Catfish
                Catfish 4 January 2021 13: 07
                +5
                Find a reward weapon, he had different options.
                1. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 4 January 2021 13: 11
                  +5
                  I will put it in the list of references.
        2. zyablik.olga
          zyablik.olga 5 January 2021 04: 16
          +4
          Konstantin, hello! Gorgeous photo! good Only the hanging machine-gun belt is missing. smile
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 5 January 2021 09: 43
            +2
            Good afternoon, Olga. smile Happy New Year! love
            Yes, boyhood all this, when I worked for some time, I stopped filming altogether, nefig once again shine, although whoever filmed with us, and newsreels and photo correspondents.
            Only the hanging machine gun belt is missing

            Exactly, there is no tape, but the inventory number hangs from the right bipod. laughing
  • voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 4 January 2021 10: 48
    +10
    "The most commonly used machine guns with belt feed from cylindrical 6th
    50-cartridge box "////
    ----
    Shorter ribbons are more comfortable.
    We used to tear 250 rounds of belgian MAG strips into 4 pieces
    (in half, and again in half). And the pieces were shoved into pouches.
    Then you can do without the second number, which is not always near in
    confusion of skirmishes.
    1. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 4 January 2021 15: 07
      +1
      Quote: voyaka uh
      Shorter ribbons are more comfortable.
      We used to tear 250 rounds of belgian MAG strips into 4 pieces

      Can i ask you? How much ammunition did you have?
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 4 January 2021 16: 36
        +6
        When there was a foot battalion exercise, we were given four ribbons for two.
        I took 4 pieces, plus one in a canvas drum - behind the back in a backpack.
        And the second number is two boxes tied to such a pallet-backpack behind the back.
        I didn't have a rifle, and the second number also had the usual 7 magazines.
        ----
        And when we dismounted from the jeep, we pulled the machine gun off the turret,
        and dropped several boxes on the ground. They were picked up by whoever was near.
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 4 January 2021 11: 40
    +5
    Thank you, Sergey!
    An interesting illustration under the caption: MG 34 machine-gun crew at a firing position. Rarely it turns out instantly, at a glance, to determine the location of the shooting.
    1. Bongo
      4 January 2021 11: 50
      +7
      Quote: 3x3zsave
      Thank you, Sergey!
      An interesting illustration under the caption: MG 34 machine-gun crew at a firing position. Rarely it turns out instantly, at a glance, to determine the location of the shooting.


      I came across information that this picture was taken in 1941, during the battles for Narva.
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 4 January 2021 12: 05
        +5
        I could not determine the year (although, unlikely in the 44th Germans, there was before the staged photographs on the front line), but the fact that the Ivangorod fortress in the shelling sector is unambiguous.
        1. bubalik
          bubalik 4 January 2021 14: 27
          +4

          Calculation of the MG-34 machine gun from the SS troops at positions in the Narva area. July 1944
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 4 January 2021 14: 37
            +3
            Sergei! hi
            Everyone knows that you know how to find interesting documents and photographs. I wrote "unlikely", however, this does not mean that they do not exist.
            1. bubalik
              bubalik 4 January 2021 14: 41
              +3
              Anton hi there was no intent against you. stop A good photo came across, according to the article and your comments with Sergey.
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 4 January 2021 14: 49
                +6
                there was no intent against you.
                I did not doubt it. drinks
                The photo is really good! good
      2. PilotS37
        PilotS37 6 January 2021 08: 40
        0
        Quote: Bongo
        I came across information that this picture was taken in 1941, during the battles for Narva.

        Yes, it looks like there is a part of the Ivan-city wall in the shot, and he is just opposite the Narva fortress.
        But the photo itself, IMHO, is staged: in a real battle you won't sit for so long ...
  • Gvardeetz77
    Gvardeetz77 4 January 2021 12: 23
    +1
    Quote: Bongo
    Quote: Gvardeetz77
    I now have a TV made on Horizon, a Chinese smart TV, with a Chinese nameplate, but from Horizon.

    You are a desperate man ... belay There is nothing worse than those assembled in the CIS from Chinese components. Better to pay a little extra and take Samsung or LG. If your TV fails, then finding spare parts for it will be very problematic. And take care of the remote control, you will hardly find the second one.

    There are a lot of these remotes in the vast Chinese Internet market, where TV was bought, and the product itself, as a result of almost 2 years of operation, is no worse than the listed Korean "tops". :)
  • Catfish
    Catfish 4 January 2021 12: 36
    +1

    Alas, this is Browning, the one that survived all the Maxims .. smile
  • KKND
    KKND 4 January 2021 12: 43
    +6
    The topic is not mine, but I will insert 5 kopecks.
    MG-34 work:
    MG-42 work:
    ZB-30 disassembly and assembly:
    ZB-53 shooting range:
    1. Catfish
      Catfish 4 January 2021 13: 09
      +5
      Hello, colleague, this is no longer "five cents", but a solid Rupee. smile drinks
  • Pamir
    Pamir 4 January 2021 13: 37
    -17%
    Infantry machine guns of the Red Army were represented only by "Maxim" and "DP-27". The only machine gun in the system of weapons of the Red Army, which, respected by the Wehrmacht, was the murderous DShK caliber 14,5 (by the way, many former Wehrmacht men mentioned it in their memoirs with trepidation) , three bricks did not save him. But he was in the air defense system, not for rifle units, there were few of them, he is heavy as a tank. To consider him an infantry and even more manual, his legs would refuse to believe. But in cases where the infantry and motorized parts of the Reich, experienced the results of his work, the mood was falling. There was also SG-43, caliber 12,7, but there were even fewer like tigers in the Far East. Wehrmacht machine guns in WWII, in parts of the Red Army, were in great demand, as as their own, tame, were not so effective.
    1. Toucan
      Toucan 4 January 2021 14: 19
      +6
      Quote: Pamir
      Infantry machine guns of the Red Army were presented only by "Maxim" and "DP-27".

      Actually, there was also an MT "handbrake" with an air-cooled barrel designed by Tokarev on the basis of the Maxim machine gun.
      The only machine gun in the weapons system of the Red Army, which, respected by the Wehrmacht, was the murderous DShK caliber 14,5

      There was also an SG-43, caliber 12,7

      Maybe it's still better to write about what you know a little about?
      1. Pamir
        Pamir 4 January 2021 14: 37
        -9
        And you yourself understand where he was MT in the weapons system of the Red Army?
        1. Pamir
          Pamir 4 January 2021 14: 39
          -8
          By the middle of 1926, the situation with machine gun problems almost did not improve. Tokarev managed to correct some shortcomings, but in general the situation remained sad. Seeing no point in continuing the work, on July 31 appeared a report by the chairman of the Artcom, in which the MT machine gun was sentenced. The surrogative Maxim-Tokarev light machine gun was considered inadequate. Soon it was decided to abandon these weapons.

          One of the reasons for the speedy abandonment of the MT can be considered the appearance of a light machine gun designed by V.A. Degtyarev. The DP-27 machine gun was adopted at the very end of 1927, and soon replaced the weapon of the previous model, which did not fully meet the requirements of the military. As the troops became saturated with new weapons, old MT machine guns were sent to the warehouses.
        2. Toucan
          Toucan 4 January 2021 14: 42
          +5
          I know for sure that this machine gun was in service with the Red Army, and I also know what caliber the DShK and SG-43 had. wink
          1. Pamir
            Pamir 4 January 2021 14: 47
            -8
            Name, not the caliber, it's me for the seed, in which units was the MT at the front?
            1. Pamir
              Pamir 4 January 2021 15: 07
              -8
              Vasily, the fact that the indicated machine guns of other calibers, so it is NOT necessary to put in the phenomenality of a shooter connoisseur. I myself am well aware of the calibers of machine guns of the USSR. So, with MT? Consider I'm a provocateur.
              1. Pamir
                Pamir 4 January 2021 16: 39
                -9
                So where is the answer, Vasily? About MT? Already schoolchildren of the 4th grade, they are studying this question, where about MT in WWII? Which of the minus players will answer?
            2. Bongo
              4 January 2021 16: 30
              +13
              Quote: Pamir
              Name, not the caliber, it's me for the seed, in which units was the MT at the front?

              Can you name the numbers of the Red Army units in which the captured MG 34/42 were used? No.
              Most sources agree that more than 2000 units of MT were produced. Taking into account that in the initial period of the Second World War, we used foreign-made machine guns in warehouses for non-standard cartridges, then God himself ordered the use of MT.
              Quote: Pamir
              So what about MT? Consider I'm a provocateur.
              fool
              After this:
              Quote: Pamir
              respected the Wehrmacht, it was murderous DShK caliber 14,5,(by the way, many former Wehrmacht men mentioned him in their memoirs with trepidation)

              Quote: Pamir
              It was still SG-43, caliber 12,7, but there were even fewer tigers in the Far East.
              - everything that you write does not matter anymore. wassat
              1. Pamir
                Pamir 4 January 2021 16: 57
                -12%
                And you do not answer the question with a question, can you answer for MT yourself?. First you, unsubscribe. And what you write, the meaning of what, and a sour mug of sour, is not worth it? So you and your statement "then use MT yourself God commanded. "Which God, do you trust? So for your" Justify for your God ", once you refer to him. Yes, to me absurd facts, and again facts.
                1. Pamir
                  Pamir 4 January 2021 17: 14
                  -10%
                  Ayuuu, please do not interfere, urgently, Vasya, where will he get it? About MT?
                  1. Pamir
                    Pamir 4 January 2021 17: 28
                    -10%
                    Come on, Bongo, do not be trifling with the minuses. I, I will not minus, insert, this is petty, Sergei, and not a gentleman. You give me my primary doubt, Vasily, have something to prove?
                    1. KKND
                      KKND 4 January 2021 18: 49
                      +8
                      Quote: Pamir
                      Come on, Bongo, don't be trifle about the minuses.

                      Do not worry, I did not deprive you of cons.stop Did you get drunk there during the holidays?
                      Quote: Pamir
                      But yours has, as if they themselves are NOT raped, like the widow who was whipped.
                      And what confuses here, well write and who do you think you are and me?
                      Nuuu Bongo, he does NOT forgive for this. Who would ask for his forgiveness, only laugh. Nuuuuu, Bongo considers himself the holiest of all. And Bongo?

                      A stream of unrelated delusions. Have a snack. fool
                      1. Pamir
                        Pamir 4 January 2021 18: 58
                        -9
                        KKND, but on the drum who confessed, but after. So what about the machine guns? In particular, which one I was initially interested in? You are the same Stream of unrelated delirium. Have a snack.
                        And I have no minuses before or after. I even deprive you of an assessment, "Happy New Year !!!"
                      2. Pamir
                        Pamir 4 January 2021 19: 10
                        -7
                        YES, and in the course, probably, a quiet RUNNING, Worse.
                      3. Pamir
                        Pamir 4 January 2021 19: 23
                        -8
                        Do not take it in a personal, but how do you know who and in what condition? You met the Year with me, judging by the comment, do you know who and in what status now, including me? You have to unsubscribe your claims, but justify something. So now you have the floor.
                      4. vladcub
                        vladcub 4 January 2021 20: 55
                        +4
                        In fact, it was customary for the boys to confirm accusations, otherwise ...
                      5. Pamir
                        Pamir 4 January 2021 21: 07
                        -7
                        Svyatoslav, Actually, let those guys answer. For all sorts of reasons, except machine-gun, I spoke on the topic, I did not accuse, I did not name names (nicknames) and surnames. Let those who were initially accused in PM will answer. ...
        3. Pamir
          Pamir 4 January 2021 18: 04
          -11%
          After this: after what?
          My Quote: Pamir
          respected the Wehrmacht, it was a murderous DShK caliber 14,5, (by the way, many former Wehrmacht men mentioned in their memoirs with trepidation)
          Quote: Pamir
          Mine also; There was also an SG-43, caliber 12,7, but that was even smaller, like tigers in the Far East.
          - everything that you write does not matter anymore
          But yours has, as if they themselves are NOT raped, like the widow who was whipped.
          And what confuses here, well write and who do you think you are and me?
          Nuuu Bongo, he does NOT forgive for this. Who would ask for his forgiveness, only laugh. Nuuuuu, Bongo considers himself the holiest of all. And Bongo?
          1. Undecim
            Undecim 4 January 2021 19: 18
            +8
            How much did you drink for the New Year that you are still so stormy?
            1. Pamir
              Pamir 4 January 2021 19: 32
              -7
              That's it, Undecim, that's enough about storms, the article is actually about machine guns, what is it for? Yes, and I did not start all this fuss in comments, it is not for me to complete it.
              1. Undecim
                Undecim 4 January 2021 19: 37
                +10
                I'm just wondering how much you need to drink to determine the caliber of the SG-43 machine gun in 12,7 mm? Even after 0,75 liters, more than 7,62 did not work for me.
          2. DesToeR
            DesToeR 4 January 2021 19: 36
            +8
            Quote: Pamir
            After this: after what?

            Your comrades were probably surprised by your statement about the caliber of domestic machine guns. The DShK machine gun was 12,7mm, and the SG-43 was 7,62mm. The 14,5mm caliber had the anti-tank rifles of Degtyarev and Simonov, as well as the Vladimirov machine gun.
            1. The comment was deleted.
            2. Pamir
              Pamir 4 January 2021 20: 02
              -7
              Actually, I already wrote about the calibers above, so let the comrades read all the comments.
  • KSVK
    KSVK 4 January 2021 13: 40
    +7
    Here's a good article. Without ideological clichés and idle reflections of Mr.-Comrade Kharaluzhny. Clearly and to the point. And the difference in the approach of our and German gunsmiths is clearly shown. German weapons are more complex, more expensive, technically and structurally more perfect. Suffice it to recall the design of the Mauser 98k receiver, which is used by all top manufacturers of bolt rifles. And nothing new has been invented since then. And also the cartridge 9 * 19, which is still the most common caliber for short-barreled weapons. Although at that time, the advantage of 7,62 * 25 in the context of its use in "long-barreled" pt-machine guns was obvious. And yet all this, as well as the individual superiority of German TV and T-VI over the Soviet T-34 and KV-1, did not help the Germans to win the Second World War. And it is IMHO because of a completely different approach to the design of Soviet gunsmiths, where cheapness and simplicity of production were at the forefront, which made it possible to quickly produce weapons in huge batches.
    1. Ml. Sergeant
      Ml. Sergeant 4 January 2021 20: 31
      +4
      I approve of your opinion
    2. vladcub
      vladcub 4 January 2021 20: 48
      +4
      "" ideological clichés and idle reflections "then there will be no Kharluzhny! He replaces knowledge with these clichés and reflections.
      Samsonov the author or "Samsonov" authors give out more information than Kharluzhny.
      How many I promise to read it, but no, no, and I will climb
  • DesToeR
    DesToeR 4 January 2021 15: 24
    -5
    Quote: Tucan
    In my opinion, the author is right, the German MG-34/42 were superior in performance to Soviet machine guns.

    What is it? In weight and cost, when used as a parking brake, yes. In the rate of barrel overheating when used as a machine tool - yes.
    1. Vovk
      Vovk 4 January 2021 16: 18
      +2
      But in a number of German memoirs, the soldiers preferred the MG 34/41 over the MG 42. They said that the MG 42 was technologically cheaper, but the quality was much worse than the MG 34/41.
  • Konnick
    Konnick 4 January 2021 17: 29
    +1
    Quote: Alf
    Quote: Konnick
    I think now there is no need for light machine guns, it is much more effective than one machine gun to have two or three extra sniper rifles.

    More often, you need to bluntly crush with fire, especially at close range.

    There were submachine guns for this. The experience of the Second World War showed the effectiveness of separate companies of machine gunners, which were created in 1943 in each rifle regiment - three platoons of machine gunners and a platoon of snipers.
  • Konnick
    Konnick 4 January 2021 19: 00
    +4
    Quote: KSVK
    Although at that time the advantage of 7,62 * 25 in terms of its use in "long-barreled" pt-machine guns was obvious


    In vain they forgot about him, he ensured defeat at aiming distance with the naked eye. Next, 300-400 optics are required for an aimed shot.
  • vladcub
    vladcub 4 January 2021 20: 39
    +4
    Sergey, + definitely. The material is well chosen.
    But: "every 3-5 conventional or armor-piercing cartridges were loaded with a cartridge with an armor-piercing tracing bullet" In fact, not only the Germans did this. This is a common practice
  • vladcub
    vladcub 4 January 2021 21: 14
    +4
    The front-line soldiers of MG-34 called them: "bone cutter", "Hitler's scythe" and some other definitions, but I don't remember.
    This machine gun brought a lot of trouble to ours.
    Upgraded MG-42, produced in Yugoslavia almost before the collapse of the country, under the name: "Zastava". He was popular with mercenaries on the African continent
  • vladcub
    vladcub 4 January 2021 21: 28
    +4
    Quote: Vovk
    But in a number of German memoirs, the soldiers preferred the MG 34/41 over the MG 42. They said that the MG 42 was technologically cheaper, but the quality was much worse than the MG 34/41.

    This is not surprising. Often, the first models are, perhaps, unsightly, but soundly made.
    For example, in rural outback and now they respect: "Izh-Jupiter-3", "planet-sport". Although they have long been replaced by other models, they have not taken root in the villages so well.
    1. Undecim
      Undecim 4 January 2021 21: 40
      +7
      "Planet Sports - a rare g ... but that has never been respected. Clunker for youngsters.
      The single-cylinder two-stroke engine spun up to 32 hp. and he ate 7 liters per 100 km on the highway, while having an insignificant resource. Who will drive it at the current gasoline prices?
      1. vladcub
        vladcub 4 January 2021 21: 54
        +5
        To be honest, I have not seen "sport" live. My former Odnoklassnik, sometimes I call back, said that he also had: "live" "Sport"
        And I saw "Jupiter-3" often. In my native village, and now they "run" 2. Where I live now, there are no such people, but in the outback there are still many.
        П
        С
        I also found: "Jupiter2"
        1. Undecim
          Undecim 4 January 2021 22: 08
          +5
          Izh-Jupiter-2 is 1965. Then there were still many Izh-49 and even Izh-350 running.
          1. vladcub
            vladcub 5 January 2021 11: 49
            0
            Izh-49, I know, he had a speed switch on the gas tank. I know: "Tsundap": it was in the process of reconstruction when I saw it.
            Izh-350, I don't remember something
            1. Undecim
              Undecim 5 January 2021 12: 06
              +2
              Izh -350 - predecessor of Izh-49. It is based on the DKW NZ 350.
              1. Alf
                Alf 5 January 2021 16: 38
                0
                Quote: Undecim
                Izh -350 - predecessor of Izh-49. It is based on the DKW NZ 350.

                Wings of Russia again distinguished themselves by releasing the dock series Motorcycles of the Second World War, two series. Gorgeous filmed and many interesting things.
      2. Fat
        Fat 4 January 2021 22: 51
        +3
        Quote: Undecim
        "planet-sport is a rare city ... but

        hi This miracle appeared in the era of "ditanat". Then, in the 70s, there were rumors (I don't know if it was everywhere, but in Izhevsk for sure) that a motorcycle was created almost for the American police, only the plant was late for the competition ... Such is an interesting detail. But in general, you, of course, correctly characterized, I agree smile
        1. Undecim
          Undecim 4 January 2021 23: 08
          +3
          Rumors about America really did circulate, especially since they were exported both to socialist countries and to Britain and Finland. True, they were collected for export on imported components.
          It had to be more poking around than driving.
  • stankow
    stankow 4 January 2021 22: 18
    0
    >>> The main cartridge was 7,92 × 57 mm sS Patrone, with a heavy pointed bullet weighing 12,8 g. In a barrel length of 600 mm, this bullet accelerated to 760 m / s.
    .
    >>> loaded a cartridge with an armor-piercing tracer bullet SmK L'spur. An armor-piercing tracer bullet weighing 10 g accelerated in a rifle barrel to 800 m / s.

    That is, the conventional and tracer bullets were neither balanced nor equal velocity? An interesting constructive solution! And how will target designation be? Separate routes, separate earth fountains? In the same line?
  • Vincent
    Vincent 4 January 2021 22: 59
    +4
    Great article. Thanks.
    But comments, as usual, are a clean dump.
  • PilotS37
    PilotS37 6 January 2021 08: 57
    +4
    I will add my "5 kopecks" to this very worthy material ...
    Do you recognize?

    [media=https://warspot-asset.s3.amazonaws.com/articles/pictures/000/061/440/source/5-f98333b31311021d085986074a49737c.jpg]
    [media = https: //warspot.ru/12992-boevoy-put-lyubimogo-aktyora]
  • kvs45
    kvs45 9 January 2021 00: 06
    0
    article about machine guns, and srach about TVs, etc. moderator! wake up this is not a comment on the topic, but a kitchen in a communal apartment !!!!! Is there anyone to say on the topic of the article ????