Military Review

And Gillet, and Terry, and Carle ...

28

The third design of the Poppenburg slide, patented jointly with John Benson in December 1866 (patent # 3382). The T-shaped lifting lever of the bolt, the grooves for its attachment in the receiver and the corresponding projections on the bolt are clearly visible. Photo by Mathieu Willemsen, curator of the War Museum in the Netherlands from the Armourers bench website


Further development of small arms weapons in Russia, after abandoning the Green rifle, it continued to follow its own, and rather original way. While the rest of the states introduced reworking systems for a metal cartridge, we were still trying to get a reworked needle rifle ...

Soldiers, brava guys,
Where are your wives?
Our wives are loaded with guns
That's where our wives are.
(Russian folk song)

Russian rifle drama. All this is true, of course, and “loaded guns” is good. But in order to load them, you need to have them, moreover, to have guns that would be loaded in a new way. But they have not yet existed in Russia. But they were looked for and very responsibly. So, simultaneously with the Green's rifle, 120 rifles of the Belgian gunsmith Gillet arrived in Russia, and they were also double-bullet. The caliber is 13,21 mm for both the rifle and the pistol of the same design. But ... Green's rifle was unlucky, and Gillet did not succeed in reaching Russia. True, his gun was improved by our master Trummer, so that it even began to be called by a double name - Gillet-Trummer. But his participation did not give anything either. A cross was laid on two-bullet systems in Russia, although the military liked them for the cheapness and availability of the cartridges used in them.


Gillet-Trummer rifle set. Fedorov V.G. Atlas of drawings for "Armament of the Russian Army in the XIX century". 1911 year

Then the Terry rifle arrived in Russia, which the Tula gunsmith Norman undertook to improve and ... improved so much that in 1866, under the double name of Terry-Norman, was approved as a model for converting all our six-line rifles. The cartridge for it was again made of paper, but with a folder tray and a felt wad. Neither the barrel nor the trigger has been changed. Just a cylindrical sleeve with an oval window for inserting a cartridge was screwed onto the barrel, inside which a cylindrical bolt moved, controlled by a handle that was swinging up and to the right. The shutter was pushed back. A cartridge was inserted into the window, which was pushed into the barrel by the shutter. Then the bolt lever was fixed, the barrel was locked, the hammer was cocked, and a capsule was put on the brand tube, and it was possible to shoot. The mechanism turned out to be quite efficient. With him, the rifle gave 5-5 rounds per minute, which was very good. But for 1866 it was already "old". Moreover, the GAU itself admitted that it was worse than the rifles of Dreise, Chasspo and Snyder, but ... nevertheless, it was she who was taken. Moreover, Dreise's rifle by this time was already 25 years old - I just want to say, but where did our intelligence look at then?


Terry-Norman rifle mechanism. Fedorov V.G. Atlas of drawings for "Armament of the Russian Army in the XIX century". 1911 year

And then at the beginning of 1865, after the events of the Danish-Prussian War, in which breech-loading rifles showed their effectiveness, the British Council for Artillery Armaments also began to study ways to modernize the British Enfield muzzle-loading muskets of the 1853 model with the replacement of breech-loading cartridges. Along with this temporary solution, it was decided to start the search for a breech-loading rifle, developed, so to speak, from scratch. Tested dozens of samples from all over the UK, Europe and the USA. One of them came from Johann von der Poppenburg, a Prussian engineer working in Birmingham. The Poppenburg rifle was tested along with 24 others at the initial stage of testing. She did not get to the final tests. However, it (model 1863) ended up in Russia, where it was tested together with the Spangenberg-Saurer rifle (patent of 1865) and the rifle of the English gunsmith Karle. Carle's rifle was taken, and both previous ones were rejected. But at least one of them should be told in more detail to show the level of competition in the tests.


Kalischer and Terry rifle, offered for the British fleet, sample of 1859. The lateral arrangement of the shutter control handle and the window for loading the cartridge is clearly visible. Royal Arsenal in Leeds, UK

Poppenburg patented his first needle valve design in February 1865 (No. 421), and in October followed an American patent (No. 50670). It was made in Birmingham at the enterprise of a certain Benson, with whom Poppenburg worked very closely.


The first sample of the Poppenburg rifle in 1865. Photo from the site Historical firearms

As in most needle rifles, the primer-igniter of the charge in the Poppenburg cartridge was located on the bottom of the bullet, where a socket was provided for it, so the needle in it was long. He patented his design of the cartridge on April 3, 1865 (No. 932), its validity expired after three years and became invalid in April 1868. But the mechanism of the rifle mechanism was quite original. The shutter on it flipped to the right, opening a window for the cartridge. Behind the breech was a retractable hollow breech chamber, inside which was a conical coil spring and a long needle. To make a shot, it was first necessary to push the bolt chamber out of the bolt, then fold the bolt, insert the cartridge, push it into the chamber, close the bolt, move the bolt chamber forward (while the spring with the needle was cocked), and only then press the trigger and shoot. The estimated cost of producing these rifles in the amount of more than 5000 pieces in England was 3 pounds sterling each. Due to the long needle and bolt action both in England and here in Russia rifles, according to the test report, seemed "too complicated and prone to accidents for military weapons."


Poppenburg rifle according to patent No. 50670 1865 Appearance and bolt device


Poppenburg rifle under patent No. 50670 1865. Diagram of the mechanism and device of a bullet and a bullet

The October 1866 patent (no. 2580) appears to be the last Poppenburg patent. Subsequently, patents were issued to Poppenburg and Benson. This could have been due to the costs of filing and maintaining patents, which in the 1860s could have cost more than £ 45 over three years of protection. Today it is the equivalent of over £ 5 or almost $ 000. In the patent application dated December 7, 000 (No. 22), Benson is listed as a merchant and Poppenburg as a mechanical engineer. It is possible that Benson provided him with financial support, which was common practice at all times, and Poppenburg made him his co-author for this.


Rifle "Peppenburg-Benson" model 1866 under US patent No. 3382. Photo from the Armourers bench website


The third design of the Poppenburg slide, patented jointly with John Benson in December 1866 (patent No. 3382), already for cartridges with a metal sleeve, turned out to be the most perfect

Its breech part was opened by a “tubular breech”, which was moved back by a T-shaped articulated lever, which had to be lifted and pulled back. This movement also powered the rifle's T-shaped semi-circular extractor, which made it possible for the shooter to remove the sleeve. Then you could load a new cartridge and close the bolt, and the drummer behind him with his thumb was moved forward to cock it. The closed bolt is locked by a pair of rectangular tabs on the T-shaped lever that fit into two slots on the receiver.


The action of the bolt action of the Poppenburg-Benson rifle. Photo from Armourers bench website

This option seems to be the simplest, very durable and quite perfect, but the rifle with this bolt was still rejected.

Extensive research by the British Army eventually led to the selection of the Jacob Snyder system, adopted in April 1866 for the 1853 rifle conversion, and the selection of the Friedrich von Martini bolt and Alexander Henry barrel, which, when combined into the Martini-Henry system, were previously adopted. into service in March 1871.

As for Russia, here they chose a Karle needle rifle, model 1867, chambered by Colonel Veltischev. The main difference from most cartridges for needle guns was that the capsule in it was located in a cardboard pallet, and not on the bottom of the bullet. Of course, Karle's system was simpler than Poppenburg's, although it had a more expensive and complex cartridge. The bolt in the bolt carrier was cocked by a handle vertically laid on it, which for this was only required to be raised to a vertical position, turned to the left, after which the bolt was already retracted, and the spiral spring together with the needle was cocked. Then, with the handle, the bolt moved forward and pushed the cartridge into the breech. The handle turned to the right and dropped down and back, after which it was already possible to shoot. To protect against the burst of gases back at the end of the bolt, an obturator of several leather circles was provided, which required attention and careful care.


Carle's rifle. Fedorov V.G. Atlas of drawings for "Armament of the Russian Army in the XIX century". 1911 year

Where savings have not been achieved is in the manufacture of cartridges. It turned out that their complexity is such that it is impossible to make them in the troops, even sending components there. Minier's bullet, for example, could have been cast by soldiers, but the iron cup was no longer in it.


Carle's rifle device. Fedorov V.G. Atlas of drawings for "Armament of the Russian Army in the XIX century". 1911 year

True, the gun was quick-firing and gave 10-13 rounds per minute (cartridges were taken from the table) when shooting 200 steps with aiming, and if the shooter took them from the pouch, then eight. This was in any case much higher than the rate of fire of the rifles of Gillet-Trummer, Terry-Norman and Green.


Rifle "Doerch-Baumgarten". At the time, many tried to replicate the success of Nicholas von Dreise and his rifle. So, in 1861, a needle rifle of a similar design, but an improved model, was created by Johannes Doerch and Kramer von Baumgarten. It had a shortened needle mechanism and a conveniently located reloading handle at the rear of the bolt. This rifle was in service with the army of the principality of Schaumburg-Lippe until its entry into the German Empire in 1871. Royal Arsenal in Leeds, UK

Alteration of rifles of the 1856 model according to the Carle system was carried out in Russia at many factories, but it went very slowly, since the price of 10 rubles per gun turned out to be unprofitable for the breeders. Nevertheless, about 215 of them were made. It also turned out that the shortcomings inherent in all needle rifles in the West were inherent in Karla's rifle, and therefore the question arose that it should be replaced, only now with a rifle under the unitary cartridge.

To be continued ...
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  1. Hunter 2
    Hunter 2 7 January 2021 06: 32
    +9
    Very Good Article, Shpakovsky Thanks as always! Merry Christmas everyone! hi
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 7 January 2021 07: 11
      +8
      Hello Alexey, Merry Christmas!
      I liked the wording "good article" drinks
      Vyacheslav Olegovich, thank you for the essay !!!
      1. Hunter 2
        Hunter 2 7 January 2021 09: 54
        +6
        Vlad hi And the whole Historical party, with Vyacheslav Olegovich and Valery Ryzhov - My Separate Congratulations !!! Congratulations! drinks
        It is very nice to switch from "everyday life - fornication" to History with YOU Comrades! We are all different ... but if anything, we will sit in the same "trench" ... inventing how to avoid UAVs and other "drones - ....... contraceptives"! drinks soldier
        1. kalibr
          7 January 2021 10: 30
          +6
          Someone gave you a minus, Alexey! Well, okay, they put it to me without explanation. But you, for such a comment ... I do not understand such people! And if something happened - you rightly said, the state will put us all where it needs to. Well, I just hope that I will not get into the trench, but from old memory they will take it "as a spy" ... However, it is not known which is worse ...
          1. Hunter 2
            Hunter 2 7 January 2021 10: 44
            +5
            Spies Vyacheslav Olegovich - sometimes they decide the outcome of battles and cost whole armies yes !!!
            And for a minus laughing laughing laughing Yes, let them frolic, I am a Real Major and not a general of comments, and I can write even with a negative rating.
            Once again, Merry Christmas to everyone and Good luck to everyone!
            1. kalibr
              7 January 2021 10: 53
              +6
              Quote: Hunter 2
              Once again, Merry Christmas to everyone and Good luck to everyone!

              And you!
        2. vladcub
          vladcub 7 January 2021 12: 14
          +7
          Alexei? (Hunting expert) 2+: 100 ℅ I support. It's nice to read quality work, not hack. What beautiful headlines do not put hack always remains hack
    2. kalibr
      7 January 2021 07: 30
      +9
      And you, Alexey, Merry Christmas! And everyone else, too, Merry Christmas! You can't answer everyone personally ...
      1. vladcub
        vladcub 7 January 2021 10: 58
        +5
        And you before or after the epigraph will be "branded" packaging.
        I do not always agree with you, like Astra, there are IDEAL differences, but I like the way the work is designed: an epigraph, or even two, illustrations. In my opinion, it gives individuality and decorates the work.
        1. kalibr
          7 January 2021 12: 14
          +6
          Quote: vladcub
          In my opinion, it gives individuality and decorates the work.

          It seems to me that the presence of the epigraph somehow disciplines the author. That is, it will be interesting to look for them later.
      2. Mister X
        Mister X 7 January 2021 10: 58
        +2
        Terry-Norman rifle
        With him, the rifle gave 5-5 rounds per minute
        The author: Vyacheslav Shpakovsky

        hi
        What was the rate of fire?
        1. kalibr
          7 January 2021 12: 12
          +5
          Quote: Mister X
          What was the rate of fire?

          5-6 of course!
        2. Nikolaevich I
          Nikolaevich I 7 January 2021 12: 57
          +7
          The Terry-Norman rifle is a very interesting thing! Among the rifles that were adopted by the Russian army in the 60s of the 19th century almost every year. I single out two (!): 1. Terry-Norman; 2. Krnka ... These rifles were converted from muzzle-loading "fittings ", and this was their main advantage! If the "pot" demanded a unitary cartridge in a metal case, then Terry-Norman "consumed" a paper cartridge with a capsule separately ... There was a hope that the soldiers, as in the "good old" times, would make cartridges themselves: glue paper sleeves, fill black powder, cast bullets, insert them into cartridges! Capsules on the brandtubes were put on powerful enough to burn through the paper of the cartridge and ignite the powder. Therefore, it was not required, as in Sharpe's rifles, to cut off the bottom of a paper cartridge with a "vertical sliding" bolt!


          1. kalibr
            7 January 2021 14: 14
            +3
            A very nice addition, thank you!
  2. The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 7 January 2021 10: 13
    0
    Merry Christmas, Vyacheslav Olegovich!
    As usual, please us.
    1. kalibr
      7 January 2021 10: 32
      +7
      Quote: Leader of the Redskins
      As usual, please us.

      Now, Nazariy, for a number of reasons, weapons materials will become much easier!
  3. vladcub
    vladcub 7 January 2021 12: 07
    +2
    Q. Oh, I just looked at your work about "Henry's rifle", I didn't see them then, it's interesting. Regarding: "simplicity is worse than theft" it is of course a "paper lamb" evil beast, but let me slightly intercede for: "tsarist generals."
    1) the tsarist regime, they are stupid rams, but also "progressive" at that time: the North American United States of America and not only they, preferred a simplified system. So it's worth blaming the "tsarist regime"
    2) without lyrics. As you know, the army exists in case of war, which means that for wartime the simpler the better.
    1. kalibr
      7 January 2021 12: 16
      +5
      Quote: vladcub
      As you know, the army exists in case of war, which means that for wartime the simpler the better.

      Without a doubt, but this can be agreed upon, and before the army is armed with crowbars, they cannot be broken in any way! The measure must be known in everything. In simplicity too.
    2. Undecim
      Undecim 7 January 2021 13: 34
      +7
      for wartime the simpler the better.
      A sling, a club, what could be easier. While the enemy will deal with the collimator sight, you can hit him with a club in the skull, and no collimator will help him.
      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 7 January 2021 16: 19
        +6
        Quote: Undecim
        for wartime the simpler the better.
        A sling, a club, what could be easier. While the enemy will deal with the collimator sight, you can hit him with a club in the skull, and no collimator will help him.

        I would not be surprised that now some clever guy will offer to cross a snake with a hedgehog, namely, to adapt a collimator to the scrap!

        In arms, simplicity is worse than theft. The VO trend is a criticism of SVT! Which the former peasants "threw on the battlefield, exchanging them for mosinki", and technically competent "sailors" adored.
        At the same time, the fact is ignored that the SVT, like the DS-39 machine gun, ceased to be produced in 41, not because of the illiteracy of the l / s, but excessive technical complexity, returning to the worked out Mosinka and Maxim.
        However - this also applies to "Nagans", which began to make poorly adapted enterprises.
        It is not surprising that in the units where self-loading rifles were already available at the end of 1941 in the state. By the middle of 1943, they were left with a gulkin's nose.
        In the same places where the fighting was low-intensity, for example, the Karelian Front. SVT constituted a significant number along with PCA.
        Now back to the tsarist generals. The paper cartridge is good in one case, when it excludes the cartridge industry in principle. It took a long and hard time to realize the inevitability in the form of a "metal cartridge". But what can I say, the cartridge 7,62 with a sleeve with an edge and a bottle shape is still in service!
        This is a drama, like a drama! So we are waiting for Shakespeare !!!
        1. Terran ghost
          Terran ghost 10 January 2021 13: 21
          +3
          that SVT, like the DS-39 machine gun, ceased to be produced in 41,

          It's probably worth starting with the fact that SVT was discontinued ... in 1945. At the same time, when the SKS self-loading carbine appeared and was launched into production.
          1. Bobik012
            Bobik012 Today, 19: 46
            0
            So, SCS has been in production since 1949. Serial. At the same time, it was adopted. Since 1942, SVT has not been produced. And perhaps it has not yet been removed from service.
      2. cat Rusich
        cat Rusich 7 January 2021 20: 38
        +3
        Quote: Undecim
        for wartime the simpler the better.
        A sling, a club, what could be easier. ...
        "Bullets for a sling"
        sling bullets
        In ancient Greece, "bullets" for a sling were cast from lead, with inscriptions and drawings.
        For the times before our era high technology - metallurgy.
        1. Undecim
          Undecim 7 January 2021 21: 37
          +6
          For the Greeks, this was already a routine process.
      3. vladcub
        vladcub 7 January 2021 21: 21
        +2
        That's for sure. True, you still need to come up to shake
  4. mark1
    mark1 8 January 2021 07: 38
    0
    the gun was quick-firing and gave 10-13 rounds per minute
    the rate of fire of a mosinka -10 shots, a berdanki -8 ... what's the catch?
    1. Terran ghost
      Terran ghost 10 January 2021 13: 22
      +2
      the rate of fire of a mosinka -10 shots, a berdanki -8 ... what's the catch?

      The catch is most likely that the typical rate of fire in combat conditions is compared with a "circus demonstration" shooting at speed without aiming in a shooting range.
  5. Bobik012
    Bobik012 Today, 19: 42
    0
    No ends, no rings, butt full of cucumbers ...
    For people not in the subject of nichrome, it is not clear, for those who are not interested in the subject, it is not complete, chaotic.
    It seems that even here I came across a much more "suitable" article on the topic. And here it is not clear why it is written. Just to write