Military Review

Fleet sailing towards Tsushima. Results of the Navy for 2020

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The year 2020 has ended. And it makes sense to take stock of the Navy's activities. How are things with our military shipbuilding? And how is the fleet preparing to fight?


January event with the Supreme Command on the prospects of the Navy


On January 9, 2020, the Supreme Commander-in-Chief (VGK) President of the Russian Federation Vladimir Putin held a meeting in Sevastopol on the prospects for the development of the Navy. A number of topics that are significant for the Navy have been publicly voiced.

The main intrigue of the event was, of course, that

"The phenomenon of the UDC to the people" (universal landing ships),

laid six months later in Kerch.


Source: kremlin.ru

It should be noted here that these UDCs have actually fallen out of the fog of obscurity. And even in the middle of 2019, there was no question about them.

And other issues were considered. Much more modest amphibious ships were being built. And there was logic in this.

Amphibious capabilities of UDC scale require two prerequisites for effective use:

1. Availability of reliable aviation cover. (And we have practically zero with this). The only aircraft carrier in permanent repair - the prospects for getting out of it are unclear. The air group is no better. It was assumed that after the Syrian fiasco, steps will be taken to bring the naval air regiments (100 and 279) into an operational state. But it really got worse.

2. Providing a powerful "floating rear". (In reality, this extremely important issue was not even in the Navy, but in the rear of the Ministry of Defense - the Department of Transport Support, ATO). And the attitude towards him there clearly demonstrates the fact of catastrophic knocking out of the resource of the military transport aviation in Syria. Where 90% of goods could be carried by sea cheaply and easily.

Given the complete blockage along these two pillars, there is no need to talk about serious amphibious operations of the Navy. In this situation, UDCs turn out to be nothing more than white bishops for parades.

And this is fully confirmed by the disastrous situation with our shipborne helicopters. What was to become an analogue of the mistral air group? Capitalized from scrap Soviet Ka-29s! For, like the Ka-52, do not advertise, it will still not be able to carry troops.

The problem is that for the center of combat use (two built large landing craft "Ivan Gren", two "large" large landing ships under construction according to the new "edition" of project 11711) and for new UDCs, the available helicopters are no longer enough. And new ones are not only not produced, but not even planned.

The promising Lamprey requires a separate discussion. But, alas, very harsh and sad.

And with all this, in the face of a severe shortage of funds and sequestration of many expenses, did we find extra money for two such "white elephants"? Moreover,

"In the process of the journey the dog was able to grow up",

and at the end of this year, it was already officially announced that their total displacement would be increased to 40 thousand tons (that is, close to the size of an aircraft carrier, which we have really provided with the capabilities of the industry).

There are good reasons to believe that the real purpose of the UDC scam is to strangle our aircraft carrier direction. The aircraft carrier was on display. As a model. Moreover, one that we now have nowhere to build. (There are also questions about the new Zvezda superyard. Not to mention the loading of civil orders).

And the best attitude towards him is shown by this photograph of the latest naval MiGs of the Navy.

Fleet sailing towards Tsushima. Results of the Navy for 2020

Modularity was another sounded trend. (It is necessary to understand that there are very serious questions for those who prepared the text of the speech for the Supreme Command). Fleet and here

"I didn't hit the dirt."

Introducing a new promising ocean-going ship (based on project 20386) equipped with the Caliber missile system, the Commander-in-Chief of the Russian Navy, Admiral Nikolai Evmenov, commented:

The project of a promising ship, also equipped with "Caliber". Launchers 16 and 16 more. Total: 32 launchers.


Source: shoehanger.livejournal.com

At the same time, the Commander-in-Chief of the Navy issued the Redut launchers to the Supreme Commander for "another 16 Caliber". Such is

"Cunning naval arithmetic".

Although here another word asks for, much more harsh. As they say,

"no comment".

As well as about the fact that a number of swindlers for the sake of their selfish interests stubbornly pushed through the fleet extremely weak and very expensive (but modular!) 20386th. And not only instead of corvettes, but also instead of objectively our best ship project of our time - the frigate of project 22350.

It is worth again focusing on the following. The 6RP gearbox, which is planned to be installed on the miracle ship, was designed using technical solutions of the P055 gearbox used in the power plant of project 22350 frigates. The main consequence of this is that the half-dead "Zvezda-reducer" parts and assemblies for P055, and for the same from 6РП. That is, you have to choose: either 22350, or 20386 and its variants. Accordingly, the equipment that is used for reverse gear transmissions used on the corvettes of projects 20380 and 20385 will be unclaimed in the transition to 20386, which can also have consequences.

The "20386 on steroids" presented to the President was exactly the size of the frigate 22350. And it was he who was announced in January 2020 by Evmenov as

"Promising ship of the oceanic zone."

As for the submarines, there was also “everything is fine” (in quotes). The promising "Laika", after hard research and development, ended up with an outdated propeller (propeller) and old torpedoes (USET-80 and "Physicist-1").


The event took place ... True, real life forced us to lay down additional frigates of Project 22350 within six months, and to return to the construction of Project 20380 and 20385 corvettes previously rejected by the Navy (as allegedly outdated).

But this does not mean at all that another attempt

"Go to the astral"

will not be done again. You just have to wait until Zvezda-Reductor has mastered the 6RP.

Shipbuilding: the arrival of ships in the Navy in 2020


According to the Minister of Defense of the Russian Federation S.K. Shoigu:

"The navy received two modern submarines, 7 surface ships, 10 combat boats, 10 ships and support boats."

Here again questions arise for those persons who prepare reports to the management. For the numbers, to put it mildly, do not beat. For example, the fleet actually received three Raptors and one BK-16 for combat boats. Or have we already started counting RIBs as combat boats?

On warships of the Navy in 2020, it adopted:

- APKR "Prince Vladimir" of the new project 955A
- diesel submarine "Volkhov" project 06363
- large landing ship (BDK) "Pyotr Morgunov" project 11711
- the first serial frigate "Admiral Kasatonov" of project 22350
- corvette "Thundering" project 20385
- corvette "Hero of the Russian Federation Aldar Tsydenzhapov" project 20380
- patrol ship (PC) "Pavel Derzhavin" project 22160
- small missile ship (MRK) "Odintsovo" project 22800
- base minesweeper (BTShch) "Yakov Balyaev" project 12700.

At the same time (according to data from open sources) GPV-2020 provided for the delivery of the Navy by the end of 2020:

- 8 strategic AICR (in reality 4)
- 8 PLA project 885 (M) (in reality 1)
- 20 diesel submarines (in reality 9)
- 35 corvettes (in reality 7)
- 14 frigates, incl. 6 projects 11356 and 9 projects 22350, (in reality 5)
- 6 MRK project 21630 "Buyan-M", (in reality, taking into account the "Karakurt" 12)
- 6 BDK project 11711 (in reality 2).
- 4 DVD "Mistral" (in reality ...).

As they say, the facts are there. And the grounds for the brave reports that took place in the media of the Navy and the defense industry are somehow not observed.

Until recently, the most shameful page of the domestic shipbuilding was the signing by the then Chief Commander of the Navy (and now the chief adviser to the President of the USC) V.V. Chirkov of the acceptance certificate for the agro-industrial complex "Severodvinsk". He withdrew his signature on this document a day later. Nevertheless, six months later, the fleet still accepted an absolutely incapacitated submarine. And this is precisely a fact, confirmed by many subsequent arbitrations between the RF Ministry of Defense and the defense industry complex (just for the 885 project complexes).

This issue was partly considered in the article "Military Review" "APKR "Severodvinsk" handed over to the Navy with critical deficiencies for combat effectiveness ", where (along with the hard facts of their analysis) there were the following lines:

"Finally, the main thing: will we have an admiral who can objectively reveal the existing problems, toughly raise questions and achieve their solution before the defense industry complex and the structures of the Ministry of Defense and the Navy?"

In 2020, we received an exhaustive answer to this question - it was not found!

For an even more shameful page appeared - the method of the AICR "Prince Vladimir". Without carrying out the entire volume of necessary tests. And virtually without anti-torpedo protection. (In view of the extremely low efficiency of the established means. And the refusal of the Navy to conduct their objective tests).


"Prince Vladimir" was delivered to the Navy without the AT "Lasta".
"Module-D" is outdated in development and is absolutely ineffective.

Yes, probably,

"The fleet was tasked with accepting."

(And here it is appropriate to recall the statements about Mr. Evmenov's readiness to do this at the beginning of 2019, that is, even before the appointment of his Navy Commander!)

By whom? Clear.

But the duty of an officer is to report to the Supreme Commander real and objective information, including hard information. (And a smart officer can do it competently).

What and how is reported to the Supreme Commander, everyone was able to see at a meeting in Sevastopol, when Redut was passed off as Caliber, without being ashamed of cameras ...

Here it is necessary to especially note the failed (but officially announced in December 2020) transfer to the fleet of "Kazan" (the head AICR project 885M, order 161). Just here's a dialogue on one of the special forums:

Kazan (order 161)

- The confident postponement of the 885M commissioning raises concerns that the problems are serious. Otherwise, like the 2038s, they would have been commissioned and finished on the fly.

- Or they understand that it is not worth risking the lives of sailors.

The diesel submarine "Volkhov" adopted by the fleet does not even have a GPBA, and there is no talk of anti-torpedoes (as well as the elimination of a number of other serious shortcomings).

It should be noted, undoubtedly, a positive development - in the summer the Navy added the first serial frigate of project 22350 "Admiral Kasatonov". We need a good series of these frigates (with reinforced weapons). But there are still scams with the "over-under-frigate" 20386.

Finally, a series of normal Project 22350 frigates has gone? How to say. The bottleneck was (and is) the power plant, or rather the gearboxes. Yes, the domestic gearbox as part of the power plant was delivered and delivered to order. However, if you think that Zvezda-Reduktor is currently working on the next gearboxes for frigates 22350, then you are wrong. There is now a mouse fuss with the gearbox for 20386. And 22350 - they will wait.

For the ships of the auxiliary fleet (once again, this is the DTO of the RF Ministry of Defense). It should be noted that the Akademik Pashin seagoing tanker entered the Northern Fleet. And especially, the statements about the construction of 5 more such tankers.

It will be a mistake worse than a crime.

The tanker "Akademik Pashin" turned out to be one of the most scandalous sea orders of the Ministry of Defense. In short: very expensive and too small deadweight.

And this is not just the amount of fuel. These are, in fact, the strategic capabilities of the fleet and the country for the projection of force in the distant and operational zone. And in this project they are deliberately stabbed to death. For a specific order and plant.

Who managed to pull it off? A modest official of the Department of State Defense Order of the Ministry of Defense, in whose hands for almost ten years there was funding and all our surface shipbuilding?

When 2014 burst out, he left (leaving the Augean stables to his successors) for the position of boss of the firm, through which he quickly implemented this project (actually purchased by the Ukrainian IIB).

In December, the fleet was handed over the Petr Morgunov large landing craft, the Yakov Balyaev battleship and virtually non-combatant corvettes of the project 20385 "Thundering" and the project 20380 "Aldar Tsydenzhapov" corresponds to reality). According to the situation with the air defense of corvettes - Leaky umbrella of the fleet. Technical analysis of the "Thundering" firing.

The most accurate assessment of the shipbuilding results of the Navy in 2020 will be: the fleet actually fell under the industry.

And from the outside it looks like an auction. In which these or those industrial structures are struggling to tear for themselves certain shares of the shipbuilding budget. They push through truly crazy projects just to snatch money. And the customer, instead of rigidly defending his interests, is only concerned that no one is left without a share.

And what they will build there for the fleet is the tenth thing.

Combat training


From an interview with the Chief Commander of the Navy Evmenov "Red Star":

- As for the events of combat training themselves, which of them would you single out as significant, significantly characterizing the outgoing year for the fleet?

- These include practicing practical actions in the course of an operational exercise with the Ocean Shield 2020 inter-naval grouping of diverse forces of the Navy, preparation and conduct of a comprehensive exercise on special types of support for the Navy, and, of course, participation in the strategic command and staff exercises "Caucasus-2020".

The main naval parade, which this year once again took place in the water area of ​​the Neva, became a landmark event for us.

It has already been written about the GVMP, - “Ceremonial splendor and combat effectiveness. About the Main Naval Parade and not only ".

If the parade is a giant bluff, and if it is followed by what followed the ceremonial parades of the beginning of the last century (Port Arthur and Tsushima), then the effect of the parades turns into disaster, and allies and opponents completely lose faith and fear. But the most important thing is ... the people are losing faith in power.

From the interview further:


Special mention should be made of the bilateral brigade tactical exercise of the formations stationed in the Primorsky Territory and Kamchatka. In preparation for it, the transfer of personnel was carried out in a combined way - by sea and air transport.

It is noteworthy that as part of practical actions, the landing ships passed 116 nautical miles in the exercise. For the first time, the Pacific Fleet's marines fought during a landing on an unequipped coast near Provideniya Bay in Chukotka. Aircraft An-000, An-26 delivered troops to the rear of the defending enemy.

In total, about 700 marines, up to 80 pieces of equipment, 10 warships and support ships, as well as 10 naval aircraft were involved in this episode of the exercise.

When landing at a naval exercise, it is worth pointing out one characteristic moment (the photo below is the official photos of the Ministry of Defense): a systematic landing from a helicopter (s) is carried out on ... the water's edge!


Photo: Russian Ministry of Defense

As a matter of fact, this is already the real assessment of all this window dressing. What is "vertical reach"? What is the "capture of the dominant heights"? On the edge! After all, it is just so beautiful and pleasant to the "commanding eye".

How will it look against a serious opponent? For example, against the Japanese in the Kuril Islands? Obviously.

Or the navy hopes to be worked for

"Uncle Vasya's troops?"

How was it already in the "888" war?

The only serious plus was that

the corvettes "Loud" and "Perfect" for the first time conducted joint artillery fire in the Chukchi Sea to suppress an invisible coastal target hidden by the terrain. A complex target position imitated long-term firing points, military equipment and fortifications of a conditional enemy.

Yes, they fired rockets like a good idea.

During the exercise, the flagship of the Pacific Fleet, the missile cruiser Varyag and the nuclear-powered submarine Omsk, performed joint missile firing at a sea target in the Bering Sea. The Varyag guards missile cruiser launched an anti-ship cruise missile of the Vulcan complex, and the Omsk crew attacked the target from under the water with the Granit anti-ship missile.

According to objective control data, both missiles successfully hit targets at distances of more than 450 and more than 320 kilometers, respectively. Fifteen warships and ships of the Pacific Fleet, as well as naval aircraft, were involved in ensuring the execution of the combat exercise. All in all, more than fifty ships and support vessels were involved in these exercises.

Also, during the Ocean Shield-2020 naval maneuvers, under the leadership of the Commander-in-Chief of the Navy, the Bastion coastal mobile complexes were fired at a complex target in the water area of ​​the Anadyr Bay.

Earlier, the complexes, delivered to Chukotka by large landing ships, made a 50-kilometer march to the positional area across rough terrain on the coast of Anadyr Bay.

“The preliminary analysis of the actions according to the plan of the exercises showed the high skill and professionalism of the Pacific sailors,” said the Commander-in-Chief of the Russian Navy, Admiral Nikolai Evmenov.

Only the question is: "Where is the aviation?"

From the time of the Great Patriotic War to the "Serdyukov pogrom" of the fleet, was it its striking force? MRA was given to long-range aviation, where they all

"Have already been upgraded and have X-32 super missiles?"

Probably, if not a regimental sortie for the Navy, then at least a squadron of long-range aviation provided for these exercises? For example, to shoot X-32 super rockets at real sea targets?

Yes, long-range aviation gave: one Tu-95. (In general, it does not have an anti-ship missile and is in no way capable of acting against surface targets. It looks like a mockery. But such things have long become the norm here).

- And how did the sailors show themselves in the Caucasus exercise?

- The participation of the Navy in it has become a serious and responsible exam for sailors. The tasks assigned to the forces of the Black Sea Fleet and the Caspian Flotilla during this exercise were performed professionally.

In total, about 90 ships and support vessels, 36 aircraft, about 900 pieces of equipment and more than 14 thousand servicemen were involved. Over 430 different combat training events were held, including more than 170 combat exercises with practical application weapons.

The peculiarity of the Caspian Flotilla's participation in the Caucasus-2020 command and control squadron was the holding of the first Russian-Iranian naval exercise. It made it possible to implement the instruction of the President of the Russian Federation in 2019 to conduct naval exercises with the involvement of representatives of the states parties to the Convention on the Legal Status of the Caspian Sea.



"SKSHU" Kavkaz-2020 ", or the Black Sea defeat of the Russian fleet"

Alas, almost everything that the Navy conducted in the Kavkaz-2020 command and control squad was not just a show, but, in fact, discredited the very concept of “combat training”.

If the army and the Air Force (albeit with serious problems), but are really fighting and preparing to fight in new conditions, then the Navy is in a state

"Maybe there will be no war."

With such an attitude to the matter, in the event of real combat operations against a somewhat prepared and technically equipped enemy, defeat awaits him. Let me emphasize, written on the basis of an analysis of the official information of the RF Ministry of Defense.

From an interview with the commander of the Pacific Fleet "Krasnaya Zvezda":

For the fourth year in a row, the Pacific ranks first in the Russian Navy in combat training. In particular, we won the competition between multipurpose submarines to destroy target positions with rocket firing. The prize was awarded to the nuclear-powered missile cruiser Omsk, and the cruiser Ryazan was recognized as the best in the execution of a training torpedo attack.

Submariners of the Primorsky flotilla of diverse forces received a prize for successful search, tracking and training destruction of an enemy submarine with a torpedo attack.
The best among the ships carrying out combat service was the Pacific Fleet's search strike group.

Three prizes on the account of naval aviation. The skill shown in air combat by the crews of the MiG-31 fighters was highly appreciated. The prizes were awarded to the execution of training mine laying by Il-38 aircraft and anti-submarine training of Tu-142 pilots from a separate anti-submarine aviation squadron.

We decipher what has been said.

First. The Prize of the Commander-in-Chief in torpedo attack by surface ships was taken by Ryazan with ancient 53-65K torpedoes (firing distances for the practical version are less than 30 cab. Or less than 5,6 km).

Second. The prize for the submarine torpedo attack was received by diesel operators with ancient SET-65 torpedoes. Although what kind of a prize can we talk about if they are not able to use their standard remote-controlled torpedoes TEST-71M (also very ancient)?

The third. The Navy actually disrupted the development of the new torpedo "Physik-1". The fleet actually showed an inability to master torpedoes more difficult than the ancient USET and 53-65K. (The latter is a constructor from components, including a hundred years ago).

Is there anything positive?


Yes, there is.

First. The main event is the Bulava 4-rocket salvo. Which this time, it seems, worked properly and successfully. And it's not just luck. There was a lot of hard work for both the Navy and the defense industry.


It should still be noted that a salvo of 4 missiles from one submarine was a luxury. And it was not necessary.

It would be much more interesting if the two submarines fired a pair of missiles each. But even so, in general, there is also something to be happy about. Finally, the Pacific Fleet can practice the use of these weapons.

Second. This is what Zircon flew and began to hit.


However, it should be borne in mind that the "Zircon" even more acutely raises the question of the need for accurate target designation (which has always been a problem for the Navy). More details: The appearance of "Zircon" to the people.

However, there is a problem with the number of media. They are frankly not enough. The solution near our borders and air bases abroad could be aviation armed with such missiles. But there is no such aircraft in the Navy. And it is not planned.

Besides, she also needs a control center. Satellite Liana? Once again, an insider and lobbyist for Zaslon:

In 10 years ... the "Liana" will be finished to a working state.

Fans of "knocking" and "zirconizing" American AUG should think hard about this. And the Navy - to think about an alternative developer and supplier of these funds. Otherwise, "Zirconia" will have to be fired approximately the way this one looked in the war of 888 ("somewhere there at random").

Aviation of the Navy


Illustrative figures.

"Caucasus-2020". In total, about 90 ships and support vessels, 36 aircraft were involved.

Let's compare the statistics of "ships and aircraft" in the previous exercises of the USSR Navy.

"North 68". About 300 warships and ships (of which 80 are submarines) and about 500 aircraft.

"Ocean" (1970). In the far zone alone, there were 80 submarines (15 of them nuclear-powered), 84 surface ships and 45 auxiliary vessels, aviation - 8 regiments (14 regimental sorties), that is, at least 300-400 aircraft.

"Ocean 83". 53 ships, 27 submarines, 18 auxiliary ships, as well as 14 naval aviation regiments and 3 air defense fighter regiments, that is, more than 400 aircraft.

It was aviation that in all missions, except for strategic nuclear destruction, was the main striking force of the fleet. However, in recent years, for the sake of its beloved daughter (submarine), the fleet actually strangled and let its stepdaughter MA ...

In the report for 2020, the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation was very unpleasantly surprised by the small numbers of air raids.


Given the fact that in the navy, this is traditionally much worse. From Red Star:

The average flight time per crew exceeded 60 hours.

And this (the MA BF raid) is still presented (in an interview with Krasnaya Zvezda) as an achievement!

There are a lot of questions about the long-outdated naval aviation technology (including the supposedly newest and being at the development stage).

However, the ex-chief of aviation of the Navy leaves for a warm and long-prepared place in the defense industry complex. Maybe that will change for the better? One can only hope.

A fleet unprepared for war


Nothe readiness and inability of the fleet to solve missions as intended against any serious enemy is best demonstrated by the fact that in the composition of the Northern Fleet and Pacific Fleet, 11 only strategic ones until very recently no one not just a modern anti-mine ship, but even elementary anti-mine underwater vehicles!

Now there is one BTSH "Yakov Balyaev" (with a single apparatus). Something has changed? Nothing!

And not only because there is one "Balyaev" for all NSNF. And also because the concept of this supposedly newest secondary battery of the Navy was outdated a quarter of a century ago. And today it

"Ship to the first bottom mine with a modern fuse."

(Either he himself or his only apparatus will be blown up).

Is this not an example of the complete oblivion of the demands of the battle and the unrestrained development of budget funds for submarine? With its extremely serious problems in stealth and combat stability against modern anti-submarine forces and assets? And ignoring these threats by the command of the Navy? And the blatant poverty of the rest of the components of the combat potential of the Navy?

G. Chirkov, who signed the act on the incapacitated Severodvinsk, now feels great in a warm position at the USC, which supplies the fleet with incapable submarines and most of the ships.

For comparison.


Then the admirals had the courage to report the real situation and problems to the country's leadership. What's missing now?


Source: mil.ru

On December 21, 2020, an expanded meeting of the Collegium of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation was held with the participation of President Vladimir Putin, where it was announced that the construction and development of the Arctic Trefoil base on the Alexandra Land island of the Franz Josef Land archipelago was completed.

Consider the Northern Fleet as an interspecific strategic territorial formation of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, performing the tasks of the military district,

- stated in the Decree of the President of the Russian Federation of December 21, signed following the meeting.

This is, frankly, a dubious decision. Continuation of Serdyukov-Makarov's miserable military reform, which has already cost the RF Armed Forces an adequate command system. Well, okay already with global issues ... What do we have with local issues?

We are successfully firing missiles in the Arctic. But for whom? Polar bears? The real threats to Russia in Artik today come either from under ice and water (US and British submarines), or from the air (US Air Force).

And at least one torpedo firing under the ice with the included homing systems was carried out? No! The Navy has not been able to do this until now (despite "Ice torpedo scandal" a couple of years ago).

Quote from the article at the link:

Torpedoes (and naval underwater weapons) are not "something not very important", they are the most critical and disastrous area of ​​the RF AME, including extremely important for ensuring defense capability and strategic deterrence.

The latter’s foundation is not the “range of flight and the number of SLBM warheads”, but the inevitability of a retaliatory strike, which is based on the combat strength of the NSNF (the most important part of which is naval underwater weapons and torpedoes).

But what is the point of having submarines that are unable to defend themselves in the event of an enemy attack? What is the point of unarmed "submarine cruisers"?

We have funds for a salvo 4 missile launch of Bulava (costing about 4 Su-35 fighters). But we have absolute poverty in elementary air targets, at least minimally capable of imitating real air attack weapons (primarily anti-ship missiles).

More precisely, the fleet had all the possibilities and had to finally start doing it! It's just that these shootings will have such scandalous consequences that the Navy spares no effort to prevent them. I mean, the shooting itself. And not their consequences.

The navy's failure to conduct full-fledged under-ice torpedo firing is nothing more than cowardice. And the fear for their own seats of the responsible officials of the Navy, incompatible with the interests of the country's defense and the requirements of the combat capability of the fleet.

The enemy conducts such operations almost every year (ICEX exercises), including with the group use of submarines. At the same time, the number of fires per submarine reaches two dozen (during ICEX).


Removing a practical torpedo from under the ice. This is the US Navy, the Russian Navy has never done this, not once!

And has the Navy conducted at least one test of the type of Western "shock trials"?


"Shock test" of the aircraft carrier "Theodore Roosevelt".

The fleet is afraid to conduct them even for minesweepers! No - these are officials who are afraid for their seats. For they know perfectly well how it will end.

PS


What is happening now was already in our stories.

Before the Russo-Japanese War (1904–1906), both ships were built and exercises were conducted. But so that it ended like this.


The chairman of the commission for describing the naval part of the Russo-Japanese War, His Serene Highness Prince Vice-Admiral Alexander Aleksandrovich Lieven wrote in 1908:

Many people blame our technology. The shells were bad, the ships were slow-moving and poorly protected ... If we take a closer look at the main shortcomings of our technology, we will make sure that they come not so much from unsatisfactory performance as from a wrong design. Why are our shells bad? Not because they do not know how to make them, but because the view was established among the artillerymen that it was precisely such shells that should be fired. They were considered good ...

Battles are not being lost on purpose. Therefore, I consider it right to say that the poor condition and unsuccessful behavior of our fleet stemmed from the lack of familiarity with the needs of war of all our personnel. Why did this happen?

Because the thought of war has always been relegated to the background, as unpleasant ... Who has not seen that our reviews and maneuvers are fake, that shooting is too rare. But all this was tolerated, everything was justified by a lack of funds.
After all, time endured, no war was foreseen ...

That is why we lied in theory and surprised the world with our orders.

And all this has one root reason - we did not recognize ourselves as military

Let me emphasize: what is given above are very tough, but facts. Even one of them would be enough to dramatically collapse the combat capability of the fleet.

In our case, we just have a pile of them. And practically no effort is made to actually solve these problems ...

And if you do not take tough necessary measures for the fleet, then tomorrow we will face a new Tsushima disaster.

The Navy is the weakest point of the RF Armed Forces. And the enemy, having the initiative, will strive to strike at the weakest points.

And what will the court media tell us after that?
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  1. Mavrikiy
    Mavrikiy 5 January 2021 05: 05
    55 th
    Fleet sailing towards Tsushima. Results of the Navy for 2020
    The crow croaked into the crow's throat ...
    Nationalization of big capital and mobilization of the economy, there is no other option. request They steal, sir. And all the screams and calls ... fool
    1. Aleksandr1971
      Aleksandr1971 5 January 2021 06: 39
      59
      In your opinion, probably better shapkozakidatelstvo and bast shoes hurray-patriotism.

      There are several questions regarding GPV - 2020 in the Navy unit.
      1. The fact that the State Armaments Program has been fulfilled by 30-40% on the one hand can be explained by an objective reason - a lack or a reduction in funding. But if there was no reduction in funding, then there is a criminal disruption of the GPV by the leadership of the military-industrial complex. The question arises as to how exactly the financial supervisory authorities react to the detection of such a breakdown of the SAP? Apparently, an audit is needed by the Accounts Chamber or by other control bodies that are not part of the RF Ministry of Defense structures. And according to the results of the audit - bringing to criminal responsibility the authorized officials of the military-industrial complex and the Ministry of Defense.

      2. If GPV-2020 in terms of the Navy has not been implemented due to funding cuts, then this means that GPV-2020 itself was not formed correctly, without taking into account the objective capabilities of the RF budget. Who, in this case, should be responsible for the incorrect formation of the GPV-2020? Apparently, in this case, the developers of GPV-2020 in the part of the Navy, as well as the persons who gave this consent, should be held accountable. Only here what will be the responsibility? Apparently only the responsibility provided for by the Federal Law "On Civil Service in the Russian Federation" or the Federal Law "On the Status of a Serviceman of the Russian Federation" - a remark, a reprimand, a severe reprimand, a warning about incomplete official compliance, dismissal.
      On the other hand, the question is - how to prevent the wrong formation of the SAP for future periods?

      3. Other problems posed by the author are apparently already questions about corruption in the system of state defense orders. And as a consequence, as the author of the article correctly notes, there is a continuing decline in the combat capability of the Russian Navy. What the author actually showed the readers of the site.

      As for the critics of the article who have already appeared, who classify the author of the article as "all the scammers", then such critics themselves, if they do not put forward competent, balanced counter-arguments, are simply bast shoes.
      1. Alexander Galaktionov
        Alexander Galaktionov 5 January 2021 06: 58
        +5
        Namesake, can you tell me how much it was planned to allocate for the state rearmament program?
        1. The comment was deleted.
          1. Alexander Galaktionov
            Alexander Galaktionov 5 January 2021 07: 43
            +3
            $ 178bn for the Fleet at those prices
      2. Sahalinets
        Sahalinets 5 January 2021 07: 05
        78
        As one smart aunt said, albeit for another reason - our country is not about development, but about reports. Has reported - well done!
        Here the admiral has reported and everything is in openwork. And no one cares, the war will not be all the same! So you need to make a career and cut the loot. Well, our supreme ... for me, he has long been living somewhere in a parallel reality. what
        1. antivirus
          antivirus 5 January 2021 16: 31
          34 th
          on reports

          its own "Novaya Gazeta" appeared against the MO. who will be Latynina?
          chef is all gone !!!! plaster ... client ... Dubrovka ... the bite on the White stones will be wow ...
        2. unknown
          unknown 5 January 2021 17: 19
          26 th
          And where do the civil service and loot cut?
          If you want to cut the loot go to commerce.
          1. Cympak
            Cympak 6 January 2021 01: 21
            18
            Naive! What kind of money are you going to cut in commerce? Company owner? So you will be identified at once with very unpleasant further consequences, up to the confiscation of health. But cutting the state budget is a completely different matter. State money - they are, as it were, nobody's, if you know with whom you need to share
          2. Sahalinets
            Sahalinets 6 January 2021 05: 06
            11
            Loot is sawed in the civil service. Have you heard the word "Rollback"?
        3. zenion
          zenion 5 January 2021 23: 18
          13 th
          There will be no war due to the fact that Stalin knew what hands the country would fall into and took care of the nuclear hammer.
          1. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA 7 January 2021 05: 14
            +4
            Quote: zenion
            There will be no war due to the fact that Stalin knew what hands the country would fall into and took care of the nuclear hammer.

            Britain also had nuclear weapons. However, this did not stop the args. And Lime had to fight with the usual fleet, air force and army.
          2. Sckepsis
            Sckepsis 9 January 2021 22: 29
            -7
            Stupid Stalin did not even know when the Second World War would begin.
      3. rocket757
        rocket757 5 January 2021 07: 06
        -4
        Ha, the first two evaluations of the article, clearly opposite, but exactly in the black !!!
        Significantly!
        1. rocket757
          rocket757 5 January 2021 08: 05
          -9
          Well, opponents of something, against something, woke up.
          Send your marks!
          1. Alex777
            Alex777 5 January 2021 16: 22
            -5
            Yes. And they demonstrate a tenacity worthy of a better application.
            They would have a dollar printing machine. I wish they had built a fleet! wink
            1. rocket757
              rocket757 5 January 2021 17: 17
              -2
              Yes, some have absolutely boundaries, there is no rating scale!
              There is only one principle, the one who does not agree with us is already an "enemy" ... the question is why?
              Very unpleasant analogies come to mind.
      4. lucul
        lucul 5 January 2021 12: 15
        34 th
        In your opinion, probably better shapkozakidatelstvo and bast shoes hurray-patriotism.

        Yes, rest assured - the Third World War will be a biological war. So the costs are less and the enemy infrastructure will not suffer.
        Look - the Americans almost completely scored on their weapons and rearmament, but their military biologists are working hard, and COVID-19 is just a test of the pen ...
        1. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 5 January 2021 14: 07
          10
          Quote: lucul
          Take it easy - World War III will be a biological war

          Yes, because IQ participants will be at the level of the simplest instincts, with such "breakthroughs" in the field of education. laughing But I see who is already satisfied with the lack of mental activity? wink
          Can you tell me why China and the United States do not really rely on the biological war you predict?
          1. lucul
            lucul 5 January 2021 17: 47
            13 th
            Can you tell me why China and the United States do not really rely on the biological war you predict?


            Look - the Americans almost completely scored on their weapons and rearmament, but their military biologists are working hard, and COVID-19 is just a test of the pen ...
            1. Ingvar 72
              Ingvar 72 5 January 2021 18: 53
              13
              Quote: lucul
              Look there -
              Is it weak to compare the rates of replenishment of the US and Russian army and navy?
              1. lucul
                lucul 5 January 2021 22: 40
                15 th
                Is it weak to compare the rates of replenishment of the US and Russian army and navy?

                Well, show me the rearmament of the US Navy with the latest cruisers and destroyers. Tikanderoga has been in production since 1978, Arleigh Burke since 1988.
      5. Aag
        Aag 5 January 2021 14: 09
        11
        "... such critics, if they do not put forward competent, balanced counterarguments, are just bast shoes."
        This is in the most innocuous, without malice, case. In all the rest, enemies! hi
      6. urich
        urich 9 January 2021 14: 03
        -1
        Maxim Klimov is like a pseudonym. Because the link is taken to the account by someone A Timokhin. Captain of the third rank (?). Above, for some reason, I could not reach the rank, but mark in the chief military experts in the fleet. He threw letters to the Ministry of Defense, the command of the fleet and the president ... even if in everything he writes there is a rational grain (which, I think, they know and mean in the manual), the author's sketches, allow not to take his work seriously. Once I imagined a picture: somewhere in the headquarters of the fleet ... one officer comes to a junior in rank, throws a letter on the table and says something like got it out ... answer him something! And then they write a non-binding text ...
    2. loki565
      loki565 5 January 2021 08: 43
      -3
      And the Caucasus was fun at the exercises)))
      1. Snail N9
        Snail N9 5 January 2021 08: 54
        45
        Yes ... we still have "teachings" - that window dressing. I myself saw "exercises" on minesweeping near Novorossiysk. The ancient minesweeper lowered the WWII trawls and crawled .... along the "conventional minefield". Then, in some kind of floating shnyaga (like in the "surfaced mine") they shot ... - that's all the "exercises" ...
        1. Alien From
          Alien From 5 January 2021 17: 02
          13
          100 percent agree with you! One photo of Migov under the snow freezes ... am
          1. bayard
            bayard 6 January 2021 16: 46
            12
            But according to the mind, they had to overtake all the MiG-29K \ KUB from Saki and all the time of the Kuznetsov's repair to train the pilots on the THREAD so that at the exit from the repair they had a prepared air wing.
            And the planes would be more comfortable there.
            But apparently they preferred to "dissolve and forget" ...
            One continuous eyewash, window dressing and ... treason (if we call a spade a spade). And even treason by stupidity does not change its essence.
            1. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 7 January 2021 05: 20
              0
              Quote: bayard
              But according to the mind, they had to overtake all the MiG-29K \ KUB from Saki and all the time of the Kuznetsov's repair to train the pilots on the THREAD so that at the exit from the repair they had a prepared air wing.

              EMNIP, Su-33s are training in Crimea. MiG-29s operate in Yeisk from the second NITKA complex.
              Two squadrons, two training complexes, zero AB, zero combat training. We have a rich country ...
              1. Alexander Vorontsov
                Alexander Vorontsov 8 January 2021 21: 53
                0
                Quote: Alexey RA
                Quote: bayard
                But according to the mind, they had to overtake all the MiG-29K \ KUB from Saki and all the time of the Kuznetsov's repair to train the pilots on the THREAD so that at the exit from the repair they had a prepared air wing.

                EMNIP, Su-33s are training in Crimea. MiG-29s operate in Yeisk from the second NITKA complex.
                Two squadrons, two training complexes, zero AB, zero combat training. We have a rich country ...

                Thanks for the information. good
                Do you have more detailed information?

                For example, takeoff and landing is not the whole set of skills that a carrier-based aircraft pilot should have. Attacking an air target, air combat, refueling in the air - this still needs to be practiced.

                The skills need constant maintenance, and until Kuzi leaves the repair, at least 2,5 years. Well, and how would it make sense to beat takeoff and landing from the "deck" for 2,5 years - despite the fact that all this time the pilots can be on alert.

                Here it would be interesting to see the opinion of the "decks" themselves - what is the optimal preparation time? precisely to work from the deck.
          2. Sanichsan
            Sanichsan 7 January 2021 21: 05
            -9
            oh! good even the author's statements about the most modern (if not in the know then they got on the wing in 1988) fiercely freezes and the fact that the photo was taken from nowhere and when it was taken, but it is presented that it is 2020.
            Are you still freezing? wassat
            by the way, if the photo is unofficial and was taken at a military facility, then the author is quite aware of the article, a criminal wink
            1. Fizik M
              Fizik M 15 January 2021 23: 22
              0
              Quote: SanichSan
              oha! good, the author's statements about the most modern (if not in the know, then they got on the wing in 1988) fiercely freezes and the fact that the photo was taken from nowhere and when it was taken, but it is presented that it is 2020.

              bunny, photo 2019
              the latest MiG-29K
              Quote: SanichSan
              by the way, if the photo is unofficial and was taken at a military facility, then the author is quite the article shines, criminal wink

              don't forget to knock on the opera
              photo published by GK 29K
              1 department has permission
              1. Sanichsan
                Sanichsan 16 January 2021 17: 23
                -1
                Quote: Fizik M
                bunny, photo 2019

                Oh yeah! I was not mistaken! lol the same unbalanced type who lied about how the ship was accepted at acceptance and did not fulfill the acceptance conditions good
                Will you give a link to the source or not?
      2. Catfish
        Catfish 5 January 2021 10: 31
        +6
        And why show this worthless show?
        1. Boa kaa
          Boa kaa 5 January 2021 15: 13
          +4
          Quote: Sea Cat
          And why show this worthless show?

          Cat, all, however, according to the "Combat training course!" (Or TPRK / PMK / PLC, etc.)
          This is where the "root of evil" is: what the "cancer driving documents" require, then they work out .... our crews, hand over the coursework ...
          This is what first of all needs to be changed, dear. And not to demand "experimental" exercises from sivolapot line crews and the implementation of experimental (previously not practiced by anyone, therefore, not described in the manuals) b / exercises ...
          Theorists from the combat training of the naval forces! damn it, not practitioners gathered here. Already .... XXXXXX ... your mother !!! am
        2. Alexander Galaktionov
          Alexander Galaktionov 8 January 2021 05: 44
          0
          Sea cat Do you know where San4es is?
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 8 January 2021 10: 43
            0
            Alexander, hello. I had no news from Sanchez for a long time, I sent him a Happy New Year on "soap", but did not receive an answer, he is silent. So I don't know anything, alas.
            1. Alexander Galaktionov
              Alexander Galaktionov 8 January 2021 20: 40
              0
              Sea cat thank you hi I hope he is doing well
      3. Kostya Lavinyukov
        Kostya Lavinyukov 5 January 2021 23: 52
        +1
        I never understood how these NURSs get somewhere.
        1. loki565
          loki565 6 January 2021 01: 51
          0
          So there is a laser rangefinder and a sight marker. In principle, it is quite possible to cover the area
          1. Saxahorse
            Saxahorse 6 January 2021 21: 46
            0
            Judging by the video, they never got anywhere. laughing

            And most of all, the twin cannon freezes. Back in the days of WWII, they learned that it was problematic to hit a ground target from a cannon. Little time to aim. No, again ... The turret with a machine gun, which really makes sense as being capable of aiming at side targets, was again changed to a double-barreled gun. A complete lack of common sense, first of all, in the formulation of the problem. It is immediately clear that the generation that has gone through the war is over. Effective leaders came.
            1. loki565
              loki565 7 January 2021 08: 25
              +3
              And most of all, the twin cannon freezes. Back in WWII, they learned that getting from a cannon to a ground target was problematic. Little time to aim.

              I have to tell the Americans, otherwise they have built their warthogs and cannot get anywhere)))
              ... It is immediately clear that the generation that has gone through the war is over. Effective leaders came.

              Yes, especially considering that this gun appeared on the Mi24 in the 70s)))
    3. unknown
      unknown 5 January 2021 17: 28
      +3
      In the United States, a study was conducted to determine the percentage of people capable of successful commercial activities.
      It turned out that even in the USA, a country where people from all over the world come to want to succeed in commercial activities, there are only THIRTEEN PERCENT.
      That is, in normal countries, the percentage is clearly not higher.
      And not all of these people work in commerce.
      And if you remember the favorite joke of Alexander Dvorkovich: "Son, you can't earn all the money, you will have to steal most of it ..."
      As for nationalization and mobilization, it has been going on in the West for a long time.
      Only not as nationalization, but as transnationalization.
      And the question of mobilization is a question of fascization.
      In Italian, "fasci" is "union", that is, "together."
    4. businessv
      businessv 6 January 2021 14: 37
      0
      Quote: Mavrikiy
      Nationalization of big capital and mobilization of the economy, there is no other option.
      Don't give a damn about the cons, don't pay attention! You threw the first phrase a little incorrectly towards the author, to whom IMHO respect for an interesting and very analytically balanced article! I agree with you 100% about state revenues! How could the strategic enterprises of the entire country be given to stupid and shameless thieves ?! Okay, they gave it away, but today everyone can see that it was a mistake and it must be corrected just immediately, otherwise soon the country may simply not exist! And today it is simply necessary to introduce strict control over the spending of funds in our military-industrial complex.
  2. Usher
    Usher 5 January 2021 05: 12
    51 th
    How to install a dis?
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  3. passerby
    passerby 5 January 2021 05: 31
    73 th
    It is a pity that the disadvantages of such "articles" cannot be put here
    1. Lech from Android.
      Lech from Android. 5 January 2021 05: 38
      79 th
      It is a pity that the disadvantages of such "articles" cannot be put here

      smile Everything is lost ... we are finished ... the article blows the grave cold of Tsushima.
      1. Crowe
        Crowe 5 January 2021 06: 44
        62
        Normal adequate article. Without "grave cold", but also without "hurray, hurray, we are breaking, NATO bends." Or the above speakers "everything is fine, beautiful marquise"? So, not everything is good in our fleet, and the author is not writes that "everything is lost", but writes about omissions and shortcomings in order to solve and eliminate them.
        1. Vladimir Mitin_2
          Vladimir Mitin_2 7 January 2021 20: 58
          +2
          It is a pity that the "breakthroughs" in the construction of our Navy are not linked to the activities of Admiral Bursuk, who "develops" the fleet for about the same time as Putin and the country and with the same result
      2. Sling cutter
        Sling cutter 5 January 2021 09: 02
        21
        Quote: Lech from Android.
        Everything is lost ... we are finished ... the article blows the grave cold of Tsushima.

        Can you tell us about your achievements now?
        1. Charik
          Charik 5 January 2021 11: 54
          22
          I read about one super-duper achievement of the last 20 years in the Russian Federation, this is the law on the inviolability of ex-preziks-not in the know-look-very impressive-hypersonic otmazyvanie from the criminal offense with bypassing the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation in the stratosphere-and in my understanding-all that did my accomplices - nothing will happen to me for this, even if I kill a witness on red square on the cameras of any ort and russian
          1. Sling cutter
            Sling cutter 5 January 2021 12: 03
            27
            Quote: Charik
            achievement of the last past 20 years in the Russian Federation is the law on the inviolability of ex-preziks

            Comrade, I remember at the beginning of the last century a certain untouchable Kolya by the name of Romanov also signed laws and decrees, but it all ended in a basement ...
            1. Serg65
              Serg65 5 January 2021 12: 28
              21 th
              Quote: Stroporez
              a certain untouchable Kolya by the name of Romanov also signed laws and decrees, but it all ended in a basement ...

              Oh yes, what is there to go far ... The father of Soviet tractor drivers on a cold March night on the 53rd died in splendid isolation ... they say Beria had a hand belay
              1. Sling cutter
                Sling cutter 5 January 2021 13: 26
                15
                Quote: Serg65
                Oh yes, what is there to go far ... The father of Soviet tractor drivers on a cold March night on the 53rd died in splendid isolation ... they say Beria had a hand

                All this is nonsense, Beria was a Stalinist and if he came to power, then we would have mastered Mars long ago!
              2. bayard
                bayard 6 January 2021 16: 57
                +4
                Quote: Serg65
                say Beria put his hand

                Khrushchev.
                And the "old communists" whom Stalin tried to remove from power by introducing many new people devoted to the cause into the presidium of the Central Committee. Khrushchev expelled these people the very next day, after the murder, from the Central Committee and carried out a thorough cleaning of "Stalinist cadres" throughout the country, especially in the union republics. It was after this that only "persons of the titular nationality" could be the heads of these republics.
                ... And under Stalin, these were mainly Russians, and the national cadre was the second secretary.
                1. Serg65
                  Serg65 7 January 2021 08: 53
                  -1
                  Quote: bayard
                  introducing many new, dedicated people to the Presidium of the Central Committee

                  The last name of these people?
                  Quote: bayard
                  under Stalin, these were mainly Russians, and the natskadr was the second secretary

                  The period of Lenin and Stalin ..
                  the first secretaries of Armenia .. out of 6-5 non-Russians.
                  first secretaries of Azerbaijan .. out of 7-5 not Russians.
                  the first secretaries of Georgia .. out of 11-9 are not Russians.
                  first secretaries of Turkmenistan .. out of 14-7 non-Russians.
                  first secretaries of Uzbekistan .. out of 11-9 non-Russians.
                  first secretaries of Tajikistan .. out of 6-4 non-Russians.
                  first secretaries of Kazakhstan .. out of 14-5 are not Russians.
                  first secretaries of Kyrgyzstan .. out of 5-3 are not Russians.
                  So your theory is not consistent! A living lion is all Stalinists, a dead lion is all anti-Stalinists at once !!!!
                  1. bayard
                    bayard 7 January 2021 09: 56
                    +1
                    Stalin made a bet on Russian personnel in the national republics after the Second World War. And it was then that he said: "First of all, take care of the Russian People. It will be good for the Russian People - it will be good for everyone, it will be bad for the Russian People - everyone will cry."
                    Lenin hated the Russian people.
                    I hated it sincerely and deeply.
                    1. Serg65
                      Serg65 7 January 2021 12: 05
                      +2
                      Quote: bayard
                      Stalin relied on Russian personnel in the national republics after the Second World War

                      what I wonder ... then why of the eight republics I have listed for the period 1950, seven were the first secretaries of national cadres ???
                      Quote: bayard
                      Lenin hated the Russian people.
                      I hated it sincerely and deeply.

                      what Are you a National Bolshevik?
            2. Boa kaa
              Boa kaa 5 January 2021 15: 51
              +1
              Quote: Stroporez
              and it all ended in a basement ...

              If only a basement ... or even a bloody civil war!
              1. bayard
                bayard 6 January 2021 16: 58
                +4
                But the current government seeks to do everything as under the same Nikolai, and this is directly declared by the mustache of Navka's husband.
          2. Charik
            Charik 5 January 2021 12: 07
            -6
            so he is still in the basement - really there are no those forces - or is it special - to pit each other - to show that the army is powerless and on the wave to enter and destroy - it is not clear
            1. Sling cutter
              Sling cutter 5 January 2021 13: 15
              +4
              Quote: Charik
              here he is while in the basement - really don't have those forces

              Apparently not yet ...
              1. bayard
                bayard 6 January 2021 17: 07
                +4
                The bourgeois have come almost 30 years ago.
                And everyone was taken away.
                And there is no "distant Red Army" that is in a hurry to help ...
                That is why the ships are not built, but the tax is growing ...
                And hopes for a "revolution from above" about which the propagandists of the "cunning plan" sang so sweetly ... have sunk into oblivion.
                As comrade Khazin said, "He is at one with them."
                And suddenly a boom will begin - the Japanese will immediately bite off the Kuriles all over Sakhalin ...
                The trouble with such handlers ... in the "light bourgeois kingdom" ...
                1. Sling cutter
                  Sling cutter 6 January 2021 17: 22
                  +6
                  Quote: bayard
                  And suddenly a boom will begin - the Japanese will immediately bite off the Kuriles all over Sakhalin ...
                  The trouble with such handlers ... in the "light bourgeois kingdom"

                  Well, yes, and the teapots are DV. Let's hope everything goes right.
                  1. AnderS
                    AnderS 8 January 2021 15: 51
                    +1
                    Let's hope that everything goes right.

                    I think you shouldn't hope ...
          3. Narak-zempo
            Narak-zempo 6 January 2021 09: 26
            -7
            Quote: Charik
            I read about one super-duper achievement of the last 20 years in the Russian Federation, this is the law on the inviolability of ex-preziks-not in the know-look-very impressive-hypersonic otmazyvanie from the criminal offense with bypassing the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation in the stratosphere-and in my understanding-all that did my accomplices - nothing will happen to me for this, even if I kill a witness on red square on the cameras of any ort and russian

            So you are for the one who is now waving cowards at Russia from Germany?
            1. bayard
              bayard 6 January 2021 17: 11
              +4
              Quote: Narak-zempo
              You, then, for whoever is now

              Personally, I am for the responsibility of the authorities.
              All power.
              And all the officials.
              Including the highest.
              You need to live so that it is not excruciatingly painful for mediocrity about ..... "tsarstvo".
        2. Serg65
          Serg65 5 January 2021 12: 22
          10 th
          I suggest that all admirals, designers, directors of military-industrial complex plants, chief engineers of military-industrial complex plants, shop managers, foremen and foremen of the same factories condemn under Article 275 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation! Shoot half the hell out of the way (they don't do a damn thing anyway), hold the second half for a couple of years in Kolyma, and then close it in a little sharaz ... let the gruel work out! Klimov Commander-in-Chief of the Navy, and you Valera to the kingdom! How do you like this idea?
          1. Sling cutter
            Sling cutter 5 January 2021 13: 02
            +2
            Quote: Serg65
            Klimov Commander-in-Chief of the Navy, and you Valera to the kingdom! How do you like this idea?

            Happy New You, Seryozha! drinks I approve of the idea. wassat
            1. Serg65
              Serg65 5 January 2021 13: 06
              13 th
              Happy New Year to you too! drinks
              what an idea for a kingdom or an idea to shoot? laughing
              1. Sling cutter
                Sling cutter 5 January 2021 13: 29
                +9
                Quote: Serg65
                an idea for a kingdom or an idea to shoot?

                There is nothing for designers and other working people to shoot for, but different helmsmen who brought the country to such a state, it is very necessary, just not to shoot, but to hang, and preferably upside down.
                1. Boa kaa
                  Boa kaa 5 January 2021 15: 56
                  +1
                  Quote: Stroporez
                  hang up and preferably upside down.

                  Lord! And so there is not a lot of brains, but what will happen if the contents from FILLES will flow into the head !? - SCARY TO THINK !!!
                  laughing
                  1. Sling cutter
                    Sling cutter 5 January 2021 18: 35
                    +2
                    Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
                    SCARY TO THINK !!!

                    Fear! yes
                2. businessv
                  businessv 6 January 2021 14: 42
                  +1
                  Quote: Stroporez
                  just do not shoot, but hang up and preferably upside down.
                  Exactly! That place up, which today our bureaucrats and commanders mainly think!
          2. antivirus
            antivirus 5 January 2021 16: 38
            -3
            offered the only way to save the country ..
            Href is in danger ....
          3. Sergey Valov
            Sergey Valov 5 January 2021 18: 58
            +1
            And will you appoint to the vacated seats by the verdict of the court?
          4. Fizik M
            Fizik M 15 January 2021 23: 17
            -1
            Quote: Serg65
            and Valera for the kingdom! How do you like this idea?

            I think that it will be much more valuable - YOU WALK TO THE DOCTOR
            1. Serg65
              Serg65 18 January 2021 07: 12
              +2
              Quote: Fizik M
              I think

              This is what scares me, Maxim !!! what
              Klimov Anatoly Dmitrievich not your relative?
              Quote: Fizik M
              YOU WALK TO THE DOCTOR

              laughing And you all the best!!!!
      3. unknown
        unknown 5 January 2021 17: 29
        +6
        In 1941, the Baltic had its own Tsushima.
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 7 January 2021 05: 23
          0
          Quote: ignoto
          In 1941, the Baltic had its own Tsushima.

          She was there from 1941 to 1943.
    2. Vladimir_2U
      Vladimir_2U 5 January 2021 07: 57
      19
      Quote: bystander
      It is a pity that the disadvantages of such "articles" cannot be put here
      Nothing, we will compensate for this disadvantage with the cons of your comment!
    3. Catfish
      Catfish 5 January 2021 10: 32
      +2
      But you can. And with pleasure. laughing
  4. Kot_Kuzya
    Kot_Kuzya 5 January 2021 05: 32
    31 th
    I don't understand the thoughts of such people. Here they are drowning for the construction of a mega and super-duper fleet for Russia, absolutely not taking into account that such a fleet is very, VERY expensive, and Russia does not have such a geographical position to develop a fleet at the expense of the army. Russia is not located on an island like Britain and Japan, or has no strong and dangerous neighbors like the United States, which borders only Canada and Mexico. Well, yes, it is wiser to have a strong fleet and a relatively weak army, since as long as there is a fleet, no one will land on their territory. And Russia borders on many countries, some of which are openly hostile, such as Poland, extinctions, Ukraine and Georgia. Moreover, Russia has the Strategic Missile Forces, and therefore a strong country like the United States or the NATO bloc will not attack Russia, since they will receive vigorous loaves, and in order to force all sorts of mongrels like rodents, tribalts and Benderaites into peace, the existing fleet is enough. To have both a strong army and a strong navy, you need to be a very rich country, only the rich USA managed to do this in world history, even Britain at the peak of its power did not succeed, the royal army was financed on a leftover basis, the main emphasis was placed on the navy. Japan also failed, she had a strong fleet, but a relatively weak army. Napoleon, on the contrary, had a strong army, but a weak navy, and Hitler had the same.
    1. Alexander Galaktionov
      Alexander Galaktionov 5 January 2021 06: 03
      22
      Kot Kuzya About the mega fleet, no one says this once, two times how much money was laid for the rearmament of the fleet could be like Japan's or like half of the US fleet, not to the detriment of the rest of the military. In fact, the fleet is becoming obsolete. and under the boats diesel and nuclear The Fleet like Japan or China, we will not pull But on the division of surface ships such as Corvettes and Frigates, we need for each fleet, especially on the Northern Fleet and TF and for boats
      1. Kot_Kuzya
        Kot_Kuzya 5 January 2021 06: 13
        -6
        Do not write nonsense.
        Quote: Alexander Galaktionov
        how much money was pledged for the rearmament of the fleet could be like that of Japan or like half of the US fleet, not to the detriment of the rest of the arms

        The US military budget is 15 times greater than the Russian military budget, that is, if Russia would direct its WHOLE military budget only to the fleet, it would not be able to build and maintain a fleet the size of half the US fleet. Russia's budget for 2020 was $ 500 billion, of which $ 50 billion was allocated for defense, for comparison, the US military budget in 2020 was $ 750 billion. Do you want to make the military budget of Russia in the amount of 375 billion dollars and leave the Russians to starve to death?
        1. Alexander Galaktionov
          Alexander Galaktionov 5 January 2021 06: 23
          0
          I'm talking about the total amount there came out 250 or 300 billion $ at that rate of 30 r
          1. 210ox
            210ox 5 January 2021 17: 13
            +2
            I agree with you (and with the comrades of the Cat and Galaktionov) we will not save enough money for all (and in fact they also steal) and it is necessary to build a fleet. I believe that the problem lies in the production capacity, subcontractors, etc. It was a bit late to remember about the army and navy after the destruction of industry. And I have a question. And how many drivers do we have in the fleet? And then we are laughing about the ukrotankists on inflatable mattresses. Let's see in ten years. Although I probably won't live to see it .. Shame or joy.
            1. Sanichsan
              Sanichsan 7 January 2021 21: 19
              -5
              Quote: 210ox
              Let's see in ten years.

              are you definitely not mistaken? 20 years ago they looked at it. did you seem to survive it well? but now, here is a tragedy, not at all. and the modernization of the army is underway, and the fleet and the Aerospace Forces and the Strategic Missile Forces. that's a tragedy! horror and nightmare! How do you need it 20 years ago? again perestroika, freedom and democracy, and of course the overthrow of the bloody redhead! wassat
              amazingly, time goes by and the bartsuns with red do not change at all! lol
              1. 210ox
                210ox 8 January 2021 10: 04
                -1
                How I looked at all this twenty years ago, in general, it is not your business. I looked badly, because the USSR lost my homeland. Regarding the regime, it just doesn't matter, the main thing is that people in the country live well. And by what has happened over the past twenty years ... For the forgetful, recall what they did under Stalin in the same period of time?
                1. Sanichsan
                  Sanichsan 9 January 2021 18: 33
                  -1
                  Quote: 210ox
                  And by what has happened over the past twenty years ...

                  Yes Yes. we are just about that. you just said it got worse and worse. Do you understand that claiming that it became worse than what you started in 90 is an outright lie?
                  Quote: 210ox
                  For the forgetful, to remind what they did under Stalin in the same period of time?

                  and we now have Stalin? Or maybe the Communist Party is in power? can socialism in Russia? no? but how did it happen? do not remind? I bet that you personally have nothing to do with lol all the evil capitalists and the traitor Gorbachev. laughing
                  and in general
                  Quote: 210ox
                  none of your business

                  bully
                  1. 210ox
                    210ox 10 January 2021 06: 38
                    -1
                    It's good to nod to the 90s, that's your mantra. Over the past twenty years it was possible, under normal leadership, to make such a leap in the economy. But no, selfish interests are more important than a separate handful of confidants.
                    1. Sanichsan
                      Sanichsan 10 January 2021 15: 39
                      -3
                      Quote: 210ox
                      Over the past twenty years, it was possible to make such a breakthrough in the economy under normal leadership.

                      at what "normal"? how in the USSR? at the same which from the Stalinist USSR in 50 years made an impressive leap towards the collapse of the USSR? belay with this Wishlist you are already late. it has already been done and you participated in it, and now they are correcting what you and your "normal leadership" have done. am
                      Quote: 210ox
                      But no, selfish interests are more important than a separate handful of confidants.

                      who? belay Perhaps you were nervous and the word "more important" should have been at the end of this sentence? suppose so ....
                      Let me remind you that "selfish interests" have been in the top since the beginning of the 60s, and those who are the union have destroyed everything from the CPSU and the Komsomol. not from Mars, they flew, all local and brought up on Marxist and Leninist theory.
                      if you cannot help restore what you destroyed, then do not bother others to restore!
                      1. 210ox
                        210ox 10 January 2021 16: 46
                        +1
                        And what have you restored? Iskra or Diffusion in Smolensk? Enterprises advanced at that time. This is offhand. Or a compressor and Sedin (three cripples are working on it now) in Krasnodar? Where are the promised millions of jobs? Well yes! No money, but hold on!
                      2. Sanichsan
                        Sanichsan 10 January 2021 17: 15
                        -4
                        Quote: 210ox
                        And what have you restored?

                        aviation, shipbuilding, astronautics, even the automobile industry, which seems to have completely died, but no. much of what you have ruined.
                        Quote: 210ox
                        Well yes! No money, but hold on!

                        and even this misunderstanding was sent to rest.
                        what have you done? destroyed the USSR and now whine about the fact that they are restoring the devastation you have created, you see, not as you see it in your dreams. request
      2. Alexander Galaktionov
        Alexander Galaktionov 5 January 2021 06: 26
        +2
        Have you ever read how much money you have pledged and for how long the rearmament should take place and divide it by years
      3. Charik
        Charik 5 January 2021 06: 52
        26 th
        it would be better for this money to build more bomb shelters and deeper
        1. Alexander Galaktionov
          Alexander Galaktionov 5 January 2021 07: 09
          10
          This is for the Emergencies Ministry's daughter Shoigu lol
          1. Charik
            Charik 5 January 2021 07: 12
            -9
            And the money for the construction, to whose daughter? laughing
            1. Alexander Galaktionov
              Alexander Galaktionov 5 January 2021 07: 29
              +7
              To Putin's daughter laughing
              1. Charik
                Charik 5 January 2021 07: 33
                12 th
                as I write about money, immediately minus-girls do not sleep -WO read-for the Fleet worried-do not want to build a bunker
                1. Alexander Galaktionov
                  Alexander Galaktionov 5 January 2021 07: 37
                  0
                  Bunker one was bought from the times of the USSR
      4. Aleksandr1971
        Aleksandr1971 5 January 2021 07: 30
        10
        Kot_Kuzya, none of your opponents writes nonsense.

        This is what you came up with for us about the mega-fleet. I myself am against the mega-fleet, for Russia is a land power. But phtol is needed in minimal amounts. And in GPV 2020, quite acceptable small rates of acceptance for service of ships and military equipment are indicated, which were not at all going to equal the US Navy. Compare the US Navy yourself with our plans for GPV 2020 in the Navy.
        But even such modest figures were not met. The question is why?

        And your position, Kot_Kuzya, is to ascribe to your opponent what he did not say, and then criticize him for it.
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 5 January 2021 10: 35
          +1
          And your position, Kot_Kuzya, is to ascribe to your opponent what he did not say, and then criticize him for it.

          The tactic chosen for a long time and once and for all is "in any case, I'm always right."
        2. mark2
          mark2 5 January 2021 15: 05
          -2
          there is a fleet in minimal quantities, but what you offer is already super-mega. To form such requests that you and the author of the article dream about, first, think of the goals of its formation? and how and how to keep him busy in peacetime? Here's an example. The US Navy is the bearer of American neo-colonial imperialism. And what about Russia? should also bring democracy to the masses?
          Someone explain to me and everyone WHAT FOR? and what are the goals? Or is it just Wishlist in couch gatherings? And the impression is this. They don't lead anything, they don't command anything, but they know exactly what is needed and where. Life is judged only by information from the network, which comes from sources that do not inspire confidence, well, never.
          1. Aleksandr1971
            Aleksandr1971 5 January 2021 18: 12
            +5
            mark2 (Alexander), the discussion is not about the mega-fleet, but about whether GPV 2020 has been implemented. And it has not been done, which the author of the article was talking about. What do you, mark2 (Alexander), tell me about this? You can say that the spent 5 trillion rubles. quite justifiably embodied in a little over 30% of the implementation of the SAP. And that theft or unreasonable overstatement of expenses is correct? Aren't you a lawyer for thieves from the state trough?
            1. mark2
              mark2 5 January 2021 19: 00
              +1
              Question 1. Where did the amount of 5 trillion come from? understandably. in 2011. And where did the information come from that it was completely spent? in the text I did not find something that everything, the grandmother is over.
              Question 2. Follows from the first. If they have not been spent, then apparently the SAP has not been fulfilled either?
              Question 3. If the SAP has not been fulfilled and the money has not been spent, then what is the conclusion? Most likely there is no one to master them. no capacity. And they are not.
              Just a comment. They were not on the territory of the RSFSR (capacities). Where will they come from in the Russian Federation? They must be rebuilt. What do you think. Is GPV just tsatzki-pecki for the military or is it also the modernization of infrastructure and the construction of new shipyards? The network has infa about the construction of new shipyards from scratch.
              Question 4. And 5 trillion is just ships and their filling? maybe something else?

              Aren't you a lawyer for thieves from the state trough?

              Me not. And you are probably a prosecutor, since you are so indiscriminately throwing accusations of corruption without concrete evidence and names. Navalny's student?
              1. Revival
                Revival 6 January 2021 03: 16
                +2
                "Question 3. If the SAP has not been fulfilled and the money has not been spent, then what is the conclusion? Most likely there is no one to master it. There is no capacity. But there is none."

                That is, those who made up the guards and voiced the numbers should not have known this and reasonably thought that the ships grow on trees !?
                Who will answer for this "ignorance" !?
                1. mark2
                  mark2 6 January 2021 09: 10
                  +1
                  Who will answer for this "ignorance" !?

                  Are you normal at all? when the plans were made it was calculated that some of the equipment would be bought in other countries. Engines in / in Ukraine, Mistral, remember? That's the same!
                  1. Revival
                    Revival 6 January 2021 13: 18
                    -1
                    Are you normal? Have you bought it?
                    Нет!
                    Someone's work should be like planning taking into account such factors!
                    Especially after 2008.
                    That everyone was friends everywhere?
                    No, they were not.
                    That is, the plan was to buy parts for weapons from the enemy?
                    Well, here is the result
                    1. mark2
                      mark2 6 January 2021 19: 37
                      -1
                      I'm normal and I understand that it's impossible to foresee everything.
                      You apparently consider yourself smarter than the Government, but why are you not there? could have foreseen the opportunity to become great like Putin, right, according to your logic? you have two arms, two legs, you have a head with a brain, like all those in power, why are you not there? You would make decisions. And I would sit and make fun of your mistakes on this forum. It's so simple, to know all the nonsense from the Internet, to draw far-reaching conclusions on the same news, repositioned many times in your own words, never leading anything, not even knowing what is happening in the next yard, to show off in front of the same 200% - incompetent co-forums even in their lives.
                      Someone's work should be like planning taking into account such factors!

                      Yeah. such a job. everyone has mistakes. foreseeing in 2008 what will happen in 2014 and after it was a little more difficult than what will happen tomorrow .... no comment.
                      Especially after 2008.

                      what happened after 2008? Already then Ukraine refused to supply us with engines for ships that were planned for purchases after 2010? or even then it was planned not to give Mistral. In addition, they were probably only discussed. Are you talking about Georgia? Well, the Russian Federation received sanctions not for Georgia, but for the Crimea, Ukrainians, SP-2 and Trump from Trump himself (pun intended). but in fact, for not wanting to continue to obey in everything and completely
                      That everyone was friends everywhere?
                      No, they were not.

                      Friends have never been. But everyone loves dollars.
                      That is, the plan was to buy parts for weapons from the enemy?

                      how go you think. Not a weapon, but only a means of delivery. We know how to make weapons ourselves. And with helicopter carriers, both then and now the problem. But nowhere to go. not sold, we will have to build it ourselves. and build.
                      we'll see everything. But only after it is built. For the people do not need to know what, where and how much the state spends.
                    2. Revival
                      Revival 7 January 2021 01: 15
                      -2
                      "You apparently consider yourself smarter than the Government, but why are you not there? You could have foreseen the opportunity to become great like Putin, is it so, according to your logic? You have two hands, two legs, you have a head with a brain, like all those who in power, why aren't you there? "

                      In short, I have everything, but I wouldn't shake hands with Yeltsin.
                      Dot...
                      So clear
                    3. Kvazar
                      Kvazar 8 January 2021 12: 42
                      0
                      That is, in essence, you cannot answer?
        3. Usher
          Usher 5 January 2021 19: 36
          -6
          What's 5 trillion? The third one writes about this money, one wrote about 3-4 trillion, this one writes about 5 trillion. Do you have there according to the training manual?
          1. Aleksandr1971
            Aleksandr1971 6 January 2021 07: 08
            +1
            The amount is 5 trillion rubles. for the needs of the Navy was established by the GPV program for the period 2010-2020. In total, this GPV assumed 20 trillion rubles. expenses for the acquisition of weapons for the RF Ministry of Defense for a 1 - year period. I have already dropped links here to the text of the SAP and to reports on its implementation, but the moderator deleted my links.
            1. Kvazar
              Kvazar 8 January 2021 12: 44
              0
              And how much of them did you spend? If 855M are laid down and are being built according to the 885M project? After the identified jambs at 885?
              Or was it necessary to rivet 885 with jambs?
              1. Aleksandr1971
                Aleksandr1971 8 January 2021 18: 31
                0
                The publicly available sources do not say exactly how much was spent. It is only said that in 2010. at GPV 2020, 5 trillion rubles were allocated for the fleet, which in 2015 there were talks about the need to reduce the GPV (apparently against the background of the 2014 crisis), and, at the end of the day, bureaucrats 'reports about the results of the implementation of GPV 2020 as another height of the armed forces' combat capability RF.

                I will assume that the financial results of the implementation of the GPV, and other state budget programs, are classified for exactly the same purpose as classifying data on the real estate of state officials - so that various Navalnyes do not tell the people anything unnecessary.
                1. Kvazar
                  Kvazar 8 January 2021 19: 07
                  0
                  In the end, no one knows how much they spent. How much they reduced (postponed expenses to a later date) and what they went for (most likely for import substitution of the same engines, gearboxes and a thousand more items that were supplied by Ukraine and Belarus and which were purchased in the west).
                  Therefore, the screams of all the scavengers are not very clear. Yes, there is no money, some of the programs were reduced (the same Barguzin for example) and poured into the industry. Because our fleet went on foreign turbines and engines with gearboxes. Now it will be on its own.
                  To replace something you need:
                  1. Conduct research
                  2. Conduct ROC
                  3. Develop those process (for example, to produce a scapula, you need to break the brains of yourself and others from designers to technologists and metallurgists)
                  3. Purchase machines (if not available) or develop them from scratch altogether.
                  4. Make rigging
                  5. Produce parts.
                  6. Assemble the product.
                  7. Build a test bench + laboratory.
                  8. Test the product throughout the specification.
                  10. Fix jambs
                  11. Produce a product with corrected jambs.
                  12. Make a product (with partial alteration of equipment and stands)
                  13. Test the product for certification.
                  14. Fix jambs +)
                  15. Repeat several times. Until the bitter end.
                  16. Make documentation of the letter O1
                  17. Make those. documentation.
                  18. Launch into serial production.

                  And they don't do it SUDDENLY for free. And in a couple of months. Often these things go on for decades. And for some, you also need to build factories from scratch (hello helicopter engines, the documentation for which was, and the program in general is almost 20 years old already).
                  The same is with the "centipede" there, too, not 6 years old (since 2014 the program has been running).
                  From there, and the breakdowns are purely on the equipment.
                  Why do you need a corvette if it has no engines? +)))
                  The same air-independent engines for submarines have been tormenting for 50 years (although what is there to torment? Stirling, hydrogen cells, a closed-type turbine (have they returned to hydrogen peroxide?)). Everyone can’t bother.
                  The engine for the armata was brought to mind for 40 years ...
                  All this is long and expensive. Do not forget that in some areas there was no competence. And they imposed sanctions on us, against this background, the most sensitive element of the fleet suffered the most (because they frantically solved the more pressing problems, where to repair, how to build power plants, extract gas and oil, what to transport all of this with than to cover, etc. there, basically, all brains were directed to the KB).

                  Plus, the Fleet, as always, cannot solve what tasks it solves and nafig is needed (well, it seems, they decided, but the sanctions had to invest money to build them at all).
                  14 A2AD zones are logical to me + artic bases where the same zones can be deployed.
                  But the function of the fleet "give us 500 ships + 10 aircraft carriers + 10 battleships + 20 UDC" and we don't care where you build them, what you will eat and what to keep it for! I WANT WANT WANT, and I don’t care that there’s no money or capacity for such a Wishlist. The logic of such authors is not very clear
                2. Aleksandr1971
                  Aleksandr1971 9 January 2021 06: 39
                  0
                  You, Kvazar, have the same way of conducting discussions as Kota Kuzi. Namely - to attribute to the opponent those words that the opponent did not utter, and then criticize the opponent for these words attributed to him. This is an ugly way of conducting a discussion, moreover, it is obvious and not inspiring respect.

                  The author of the article spoke about the need to fulfill GPV-2020, and not about the need to build 500 ships + 10 aircraft carriers. Moreover, there was no official publicly available information on the reduction of GPV-2020.

                  If we have already published GPV-2020, then it is logical to publish changes or abbreviations to GPV-2020. And this was not done. Therefore, it is logical to compare the actual result of the implementation of GPV-2020 with how this program was planned in 2010. And the execution was a failure. The author writes about this, and not about the fact that Russia needs a mega-fleet.
                3. Kvazar
                  Kvazar 13 January 2021 23: 31
                  -1
                  On the topic of discussion and in comparison, Kota Kuzi is possible (it's useless to argue, I don't know who it is). I will even agree. I don't want to dive into the topic of this discussion. We will assume that we misunderstood the message of a different opinion and did not realize their deep idea (there was not enough knowledge, I do not deny it). I agree.

                  Has anyone denied the importance of GPV 2020? It's like a state. program (From the realities "we want it, we even found the dough, but how do you give birth to your problems, you signed up for it because we can"). There the problem is that those who "signed up" and "actually execute" (even if they gave money) can crap at any stage with a 100% chance. All of these programs are huge risks. And the more complex the product, the greater the chance (in reality for the navy it is 100%, because the navy is and will be the country's technological mirror). And no one under such programs assumes that "suddenly" there will be no 2846 products out of 70.000. Some of which are engines and recorders. At the same time, there are not even maintenance stands in the country, but they also need to be created (and this is expensive and time-consuming).

                  The author is a person with the letter "m" and no more. Yes, they killed due to sanctions and refusal to cooperate and supply (Mistral) products. And what we have in the end. For complex products (turbines, gearboxes as an example and their maintenance, and this is not only the Fleet but also the power industry). Turbines were replaced, gearboxes were replaced, turbines for fuel cells
                  C (100 megawatt) was also replaced (yes, so Siemens did not give a shit about all the sanctions in the project, because otherwise the loss of direction, because a competitor appears who still appeared). But all this takes time and an engineering school + a fundamental school and an industrial base.
                  They didn't really hit the fleet when the sanctions were introduced (this is a by-product), but power plants. Who of them would have thought that they would create not only ships, but also 100 MW turbines.
                  PS You shouldn't think that sanctions are "fun". Personally, I am very surprised that they passed them so smoothly and with such losses. Because introduced them with the aim of completely stopping the Russian economy. (well, about some kind of fleet and its maintenance, there would be no speech, especially the construction of a new one). And the failure to meet the deadlines and goals of GPV 2020 (it was, as it were, from the areas of dreams), but I don't care. Saved other programs ala "Poseydon and Co" and statements that "you just die the creature."

                  A nagging article and nothing more for a small grant. Interesting, but no more.
  • Sergey Valov
    Sergey Valov 5 January 2021 11: 04
    +8
    The military budget, especially in Russia, is a document for the layman. In fact, money is allocated and others are spent. But the most important thing is not money, but industrial and scientific potential. We, now, with both of them are very sad, plus many factories and research institutes were lost with the collapse of the USSR. Plus, the Russian Federation has the sad experience of the USSR in the arms race, which first ruined and then destroyed the country. The current government, and this can be seen, is not yet following this path.
    1. timokhin-aa
      5 January 2021 12: 36
      20
      The current government spends MORE than necessary on the result that it has.
      1. K298rtm
        K298rtm 5 January 2021 13: 24
        +5
        It only means that the result obtained suits the one who authorizes the spending of funds.
        1. Sergey Valov
          Sergey Valov 5 January 2021 14: 12
          +2
          I don’t think. Authorization of costs and "mastering" these same costs are different processes.
      2. Sergey Valov
        Sergey Valov 5 January 2021 14: 09
        +1
        Like any other country, but unfortunately, our country is simply bad in this regard, but very bad.
      3. Aleksandr1971
        Aleksandr1971 8 January 2021 18: 33
        0
        Apparently, the authorities have lost control over the efficiency of spending state funds. More can be done for every ruble in a less corrupt country. The PRC and its fleet are an example of this.
    2. Aleksandr1971
      Aleksandr1971 5 January 2021 18: 15
      +4
      The military budget for the layman is just a topic for blah blah ..... And for executors of the budget, it is a document for which they are responsible with their own skin. Or should answer. There is the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation for this.

      On this site, we can carry whatever blizzard you want about GPV. But I, as an inhabitant and a citizen, would like the document to be executed, and for non-execution of the document the guilty person's skin was stuffed with manure and hung out at the city gates for the edification of others.
      1. Sergey Valov
        Sergey Valov 5 January 2021 18: 55
        -3
        “I would like the document to be executed” - and I really want this, but this is unrealistic by definition. There are closed items of expenditure, there is financing of defense programs through the budgets of other departments, there are research programs that in advance carry the risk of non-implementation. There are departmental interests of budget co-executors. A very significant factor is the lack of professionalism / amateurism of specific persons of budget executors. No one has canceled force majeure and factors that cannot be foreseen in principle. And so on, etc. I didn’t name these criminal variants of budget failure.
  • Pilat2009
    Pilat2009 5 January 2021 12: 18
    +2
    Quote: Kot_Kuzya
    Russia's budget for 2020 amounted to $ 500 billion, of which 50 billion were allocated for defense, for comparison, the US military budget in 2020 was $ 750 billion

    In the US budget, a large part goes to salaries and the maintenance of bases. And their equipment is more expensive, maintenance. We do not need 50 destroyers and 5 aircraft carriers. In addition, a decent number of ships and aircraft are provided by the NATO allies, catching up with them, the navel will be untied
  • Stas157
    Stas157 6 January 2021 11: 22
    +4
    Quote: Kot_Kuzya
    US military budget 15 times the military budget of Russia

    So it's in dollars. And we have a military budget in rubles! Have you forgotten about it? In rubles, we also have a bigger budget for the American one (which is in dollars) !!)))

    We have already been told a hundred times that Russia can do much more for its budget than America can do for the same amount. And so they say, our Superpower has a military budget that is quite parity with America. Well, at least, say the urya-patriots to whom you belong.
  • antivirus
    antivirus 5 January 2021 16: 42
    -4
    give 10 aircraft carriers 100 tons each by 000 ....................................... .................................................. ......................... there is still time 2030 piece in 1 year ................. .. :::::::::::::::::::::::: ellipses in two floors - as a symbol of hope for a strong fleet by 1
    1. Aleksandr1971
      Aleksandr1971 5 January 2021 18: 18
      +2
      Do not speak correctly.
      Give the implementation of all officially approved state budget programs, incl. weapons programs, as well as giving dungeons for thieves.
      1. antivirus
        antivirus 5 January 2021 19: 42
        0
        if, according to my theory - in the Russian Federation the period of initial capital accumulation is still continuing - the fleet is not needed and even harmful - it limits the maneuver - it is necessary to throw the dough into that hole right now, let's throw it into the other - they must also throw it.
        THE STRUCTURE OF THE ECONOMY IS FORMING STILL, ONLY BECAME A COUNTRY WITH A MARKET ECONOMY.
        Are you against the standard of living as in Germany? - what prevents this - it is necessary to break the plans for the fleet to fill the Fin-prom groups and banks.
        loot wins the archaic.
        the construction of the fleet is in third place.
        1. Aleksandr1971
          Aleksandr1971 8 January 2021 18: 26
          0
          Even if your theory is correct, this does not mean that it is permissible for the control authorities to turn a blind eye to the theft of state funds, and that it is normal for citizens to approve of the lawlessness of corrupt officials.
          1. antivirus
            antivirus 8 January 2021 20: 50
            0
            theft is certainly. initial accumulation continues.
            Chubais deceived Berezovsky and Abramovich-Aven-Shokhin and so on in the late 90s.
            the authorities continue to encourage the earning of super-profits, even if not by left-wing means, but also not as in Western Europe.
            read my com-you about port 777 - not necessarily a whole theory, but there are explanations for the continuation of life from the 90s.
            and everyone has their own observations and conclusions.
            1. Aleksandr1971
              Aleksandr1971 9 January 2021 06: 29
              0
              Do you approve of the disruption of GPV 2020 and other state programs? Do you approve the appropriation of state funds by the leaders of the military-industrial complex and officials? In addition, this money is unlikely to get you.
              1. antivirus
                antivirus 9 January 2021 07: 08
                0
                I recognize the power to do what is profitable - to give money to machine building, to create financial groups with good capital to compete in the markets.
                theft is another matter.
                and if it is "agreed" to give money to some top managers for personal use - this is the business of those who work, from both sides.
                "consent is a product of non-resistance of the two parties."
                both Lukoil and TNK, YUKOS were artificially created, and the amalgamation of technological chains in aircraft, auto and other structures with the transfer (their banks) of money to them to compete in foreign markets
                1. antivirus
                  antivirus 9 January 2021 07: 19
                  0
                  Thank you................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ............. welcome caution
      2. Kvazar
        Kvazar 8 January 2021 12: 50
        0
        Build without turbines and gearboxes?
        Does it take time to create them? And with an unknown result?
        Build UDC? instead of Mistrals? Isn't it a little easier to build technologies than an Aircraft Carrier or an Icebreaker? Because the same Mistral is a floating hospital / headquarters / supply base and only after that a shock unit?
        Where to build?
        Therefore, you can demand from your wife. But in real life, everything is more complicated. Apart from the risks with R&D.
        There are risks with the production of any component. Where without these components the ship is not working at all.
  • Alexander Galaktionov
    Alexander Galaktionov 5 January 2021 06: 12
    +4
    The author says that with frigates pr 22350 norms, as I understand it, but they are few, they need to be built more.According to corvettes, the author says that, to put it mildly, not what kind of ship takes on them, as if for land and air defense and Shock weapons and Artillery This is like a company of soldiers, Msta S, Iskander with missiles ala Caliber and air defense Tor m2 together with Buk
  • Alexander Galaktionov
    Alexander Galaktionov 5 January 2021 06: 21
    0
    The cat Kuzya and the ground forces developed how, the T-72B3 image of 2016 and that there are no standards of protection for the frontal tower, there is no ZPU, there is no panoramic sight, And according to the dynamical display, guided missiles were fired best of all, the T-72B3 then the T-90 and the modernized T-80 BVM like everything by
  • Doctor
    Doctor 5 January 2021 08: 28
    -4
    I don't understand the thoughts of such people. Here they are drowning for the construction of a mega and super-duper fleet for Russia, absolutely not taking into account that such a fleet is very, VERY expensive, and Russia does not have such a geographical position to develop a fleet at the expense of the army.

    They don't even see this contradiction in their own article.

    Before Tsushima, the Big Fleet was BUILT. Everything, as it should be, with battleships, cruisers, in short "balanced".
    And if instead of him they built a railway to Vladik, there would be no Tsushima. And there, you see, there would not have been a revolution. Live in another country.

    But no, we need "hundreds of minesweepers" again. fellow
    1. Rurikovich
      Rurikovich 5 January 2021 08: 59
      20
      Large general fleet. Smeared across three theaters, where part of the fleet was weaker than the opposing enemy fleet request
      1. Pilat2009
        Pilat2009 6 January 2021 09: 56
        0
        Quote: Rurikovich
        Large general fleet. Smeared across three theaters, where part of the fleet was weaker than the opposing enemy fleet

        So now the same
        1. Rurikovich
          Rurikovich 6 January 2021 12: 11
          +1
          No, under the Union there was no SUCH an abyss for the fleets separatelyrequest
    2. Sergey Valov
      Sergey Valov 5 January 2021 11: 06
      14
      What's the use of a large number of ships, if they spend the winter for almost six months without conducting combat training.
    3. timokhin-aa
      5 January 2021 12: 34
      14
      And if instead of him they built a railway to Vladik, there would be no Tsushima.


      a thousand times chewed topic. The Transsib would not have helped if the required bandwidth was not provided.
      It was necessary to interrupt Japanese communications at sea, there was simply no other option.
      1. Sergey Valov
        Sergey Valov 5 January 2021 14: 18
        +7
        The option was also very simple - to defeat the Japanese on land. The carrying capacity of the Transsib was quite enough, it was necessary to be able to fight, and to prepare for war in advance, and not after it began.
      2. Doctor
        Doctor 5 January 2021 15: 07
        -2
        a thousand times chewed topic. The Transsib would not have helped if the required bandwidth was not provided.
        It was necessary to interrupt Japanese communications at sea, there was simply no other option.

        Don't go to the Kwantung Peninsula, make Japan an ally for 100 years, live in its ports, drink sake with its geisha.
        A simple choice.
      3. Boa kaa
        Boa kaa 5 January 2021 16: 13
        +4
        Quote: timokhin-aa
        It was necessary to interrupt Japanese communications at sea, there was simply no other option.

        People with shrewd brains cannot understand this in any way! (Where is the trench and damn-sales !? with barbed wire ???)
        Unfortunately, a similar situation is now being projected onto the Atlantic: NATO can only supply the Yankees by sea.
        Without the help of the United States, Europeans will not survive ... "definitely" (V.V. Zhirinovsky) bully
    4. Serg65
      Serg65 5 January 2021 12: 41
      -9
      Quote: Arzt
      And if instead of him they built a railway to Vladik

      laughing The railway ... it was this railway that became the cause of both the RYAV and the revolution of the fifth year !!! The idea of ​​Nikolenka, who was so unloved on VO, greatly upset Yasha Schiff, and with the signing of an agreement on the construction of railways between Russia and China, Yasha not only lost his appetite, but also sleep ... and as a result, we have consistently January 9th, 1905!
      1. Doctor
        Doctor 5 January 2021 14: 43
        -3
        The railway ... it was this railway that became the cause of both the RYAV and the revolution of the fifth year !!! The idea of ​​Nikolenka, who was so unloved on VO, greatly upset Yasha Schiff, and with the signing of an agreement on the construction of railways between Russia and China, Yasha not only lost his appetite, but also sleep ... and as a result, we have consistently January 9th, 1905!

        The cause of the war is the Kwantung Peninsula. Oh, these peninsulas ... wink
    5. SVD68
      SVD68 5 January 2021 17: 06
      +3
      Quote: Arzt
      Before Tsushima, the Big Fleet was BUILT. Everything, as it should be, with battleships, cruisers, in short "balanced".
      And if instead of him they built a railway to Vladik, there would be no Tsushima. And there, you see, there would not have been a revolution. Live in another country.

      They have built something, but have not learned to use it.
      And they didn't learn to use the army. If they knew how to move like Suvorov, the Japanese would have been defeated under Shah. Or even near Liaoyang.
    6. Ivanchester
      Ivanchester 5 January 2021 17: 21
      +2
      Excuse me, but when do you think the railway to Vladik appeared?
      1. Doctor
        Doctor 5 January 2021 17: 33
        0
        Excuse me, but when do you think the railway to Vladik appeared?

        Before the revolution, as far as I remember.
        1. Ivanchester
          Ivanchester 5 January 2021 19: 26
          0
          You are wrong: by the beginning of the Russo-Japanese War, the railway was already operating both to Vladivostok and to Port Arthur (only there was no permanent bypass of Lake Baikal yet, emnip). But their throughput was in no way comparable to that demonstrated by the Japanese fleet, so their mere presence did not become the decisive factor that determined the winner. In this regard, the role of the fleet in that war was almost paramount, but, alas, our sailors could not fulfill it at a high level for various reasons ...
          1. Sanichsan
            Sanichsan 7 January 2021 21: 34
            -2
            Quote: Ivanchester
            You are wrong: by the beginning of the Russo-Japanese War, the railway was already operating both to Vladivostok and to Port Arthur

            right. the same label is private. how it ended everyone knows and the reviews of this railway from eyewitnesses are also very eloquent. yes
    7. unknown
      unknown 5 January 2021 17: 34
      0
      All revolutions are prepared from above.
      In 1917 it was the same as in 1991.
      The elite betrayed the country, took out assets and zeroed out social obligations.
    8. Lex_is
      Lex_is 5 January 2021 17: 40
      0
      And if instead of him they built a railway to Vladik, there would be no Tsushima.

      Monsieur, a great connoisseur of history ...

      The railway, to Port Arthur and Vladik WAS BUILT, it was called the CEL.
      Somehow it didn't help.
  • Sling cutter
    Sling cutter 5 January 2021 09: 09
    +7
    Quote: Kot_Kuzya
    I don't understand the thoughts of such people. Here they are drowning for the construction of a mega and super-duper fleet for Russia, absolutely not taking into account that such a fleet is very, VERY expensive.

    But friends of a friend have the largest and most expensive yachts in the world.
    1. Catfish
      Catfish 5 January 2021 10: 36
      0
      Colleague, don't knock, there is no door, just a blank wall.
      1. Sling cutter
        Sling cutter 5 January 2021 11: 53
        +1
        Quote: Sea Cat
        Colleague, don't knock, there is no door, just a blank wall.

        I agree, Kamrad. But I remember my grandfather told me ...
      2. Boa kaa
        Boa kaa 5 January 2021 16: 21
        +4
        Quote: Sea Cat
        Colleague, don't knock, there is no door, just a blank wall.
        Thank you for prompting us in time !!!

        (... your sorrowful work will not be lost
        and doom high aspiration! (from) laughing
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 5 January 2021 16: 23
          0
          (... your sorrowful work will not be lost
          and doom high aspiration! (c) laughing

          Will be lost. About that and speech. laughing
  • Lannan Shi
    Lannan Shi 5 January 2021 09: 15
    25
    Quote: Kot_Kuzya
    Moreover, Russia has a Strategic Missile Forces, and therefore a strong country like the United States or NATO will not attack Russia,

    I remember the Turks shot down the plane of our Aerospace Forces. Azerbaijan has recently landed our helicopter. As you can see, they are attacking. And not even the entire bloc, and not even the countries from the bloc, but a very wretched third world country in terms of military power. And what is typical, the Strategic Missile Forces did not punish them for some reason. Or is an attack for you when enemy tanks crawl into Red Square? And the downed plane / helicopter - little things in life? Well, under such a sauce, they can let the Kuzya go to the bottom. This is not a war, but an annoying misunderstanding.
    Quote: Kot_Kuzya
    And Russia borders on many countries, some of which are openly hostile,

    Quote: Kot_Kuzya
    To have a strong army at the same time

    Contradict your own words. Why do we need a strong army if we have a mighty Strategic Missile Forces? A pair of three brigades will be enough to disperse a small gang. Okay divisions. And everything else is vigorous to jam with a loaf. What kind of savings will come out?
    By the way. Lack of finance. Our opponents, at least the overwhelming majority of them, will not remember frank Bantustans, the elites for some reason unfasten the state from 30 to 50% of income. We have ... 15. What is the problem to improve the financial issue? We have the wrong elite? Ready to hang yourself for a penny? So can change it, and not clamp down the fleet? Or do we have a wrong government and guarantor, unable to manage finances? So can they change, and not destroy the fleet?
    1. Kot_Kuzya
      Kot_Kuzya 5 January 2021 10: 01
      18 th
      Quote: Lannan Shi
      I remember the Turks shot down the plane of our Aerospace Forces. Azerbaijan has recently landed our helicopter. As you can see, they are attacking. And not even the entire bloc, and not even the countries from the bloc, but a very wretched third world country in terms of military power. And what is typical, the Strategic Missile Forces did not punish them for some reason. Or is an attack for you when enemy tanks crawl into Red Square? And the downed plane / helicopter - little things in life? Well, under such a sauce, they can let the Kuzya go to the bottom. This is not a war, but an annoying misunderstanding.

      You again, as usual, cringe. In Syria, our Aerospace Forces fought with the Barmaley, and the Turks helped them. In war, you know, planes are sometimes shot down. As an example, one can cite the wars in Korea and Vietnam, when both Soviet and American planes were shot down, but the United States, for example, for some reason was in no hurry to bomb the USSR with atomic bombs in 1950, although at that time they had an overwhelming advantage as in strategic bombers, and in the number of atomic bombs. The same was with the helicopter in Karabakh, there was a war there.
      Quote: Lannan Shi
      Contradict your own words. Why do we need a strong army if we have a mighty Strategic Missile Forces? A pair of three brigades will be enough to disperse a small gang. Okay divisions. And everything else is vigorous to jam with a loaf. What kind of savings will come out?

      They are already doing this, it is not for nothing that the army is now switching to contract service, and even privates are now mostly contract soldiers, not conscripts.
      Quote: Lannan Shi
      By the way. Lack of finance. Our opponents, at least the overwhelming majority of them, will not remember frank Bantustans, the elites for some reason unfasten the state from 30 to 50% of income. We have ... 15. What is the problem to improve the financial issue? We have the wrong elite? Ready to hang yourself for a penny? So can change it, and not clamp down the fleet? Or do we have a wrong government and guarantor, unable to manage finances? So can they change, and not destroy the fleet?

      In 1917 and 1991, the people also thought like you, and believed that we would throw off the old leadership, and live! Or take our neighbors, who were jumping around with pans on their heads. Also healed better? Where is the guarantee that we will heal better? I doubt it very much.
      1. Lannan Shi
        Lannan Shi 5 January 2021 10: 25
        27
        Quote: Kot_Kuzya
        In war, you know, planes get shot down sometimes

        The helicopter was shot down not even in the war. And not even next to her. Iiiii? Did I oversleep the news? The mighty Strategic Missile Forces demolished the tank nafig?
        Kind. Nuclear weapons in the USSR / RF will soon be 70 years old. And all 70 years the army and navy fought without him. And it will continue to be the same. And a weak fleet is the lot of regional powers. Tomorrow Turkey will arrange a naval blockade of Syria. Iiii ?? Will you start waving the loaf with a yam?
        Doesn't the country have a powerful fleet? Well, there is nothing to pretend to be a mega power. We sit on the priest evenly, and at the most we perepavkivaya over the fence, with the nearest neighbors.
        Quote: Kot_Kuzya
        They already do it,

        Not noticeable like that. Why do we need thousands of tanks and planes, missiles and all sorts of armor. We have vigorous loaves full of bins.
        Quote: Kot_Kuzya
        In 1917 and 1991, the people also thought like you, and believed that we would throw off the old leadership, and live!

        And in the first case, actually healed. From outright outsiders, coming out on the second place in the world. And in many ways, and on the first. Because this is the case. The resources are finite. Any. Financial. Human. Natural. Axiom damn it. And if 1-2% of these resources go to satisfy the wishes of those in power, this is one compote. And if it's 20-30, then ... Then all sorts of unnecessary things, like the Navy, should be put on a hungry ration. And whether the country needs an elite, for which a personal yacht is more important than a frigate for the Navy, everyone decides for himself. Due to its depravity. I think that the interests of the Alekperormordashovs are secondary. You ... Well, apparently you have so stuck to the trough that you deeply spit on the army and navy.
        Dixi.
        1. Kot_Kuzya
          Kot_Kuzya 5 January 2021 11: 18
          13 th
          Quote: Lannan Shi
          The helicopter was shot down not even in the war. And not even next to her. Iiiii? Did I oversleep the news? The mighty Strategic Missile Forces demolished the tank nafig?

          Do you propose to kill millions of people because of one shot down helicopter? Who do you think you are? Hitler?
          Quote: Lannan Shi
          Kind. Nuclear weapons in the USSR / RF will soon be 70 years old. And all 70 years the army and navy fought without him. And it will continue to be the same. And a weak fleet is the lot of regional powers. Tomorrow Turkey will arrange a naval blockade of Syria. Iiii ?? Will you start waving the loaf with a yam?
          Doesn't the country have a powerful fleet? Well, there is nothing to pretend to be a mega power. We sit on the priest evenly, and at the most we perepavkivaya over the fence, with the nearest neighbors.

          That is, in Afghanistan, would you fight with nuclear weapons against the Mujahideen with Kalash? Or would they also fight against the bandits in Chechnya with nuclear weapons? Are you really out of your mind?
          Quote: Lannan Shi
          Not noticeable like that. Why do we need thousands of tanks and planes, missiles and all sorts of armor. We have vigorous loaves full of bins.

          You don't notice it. And knowledgeable people are very noticeable.
          Quote: Lannan Shi
          And in the first case, actually healed. From outright outsiders, coming out on the second place in the world. And in many ways, and on the first. Because this is the case. They are finite resources. Any. Financial. Human. Natural. Axiom damn it.

          Yeah, healed. Only a few survived. For 5 years of turmoil, Civil War, interventions, rampant banditry, hunger and epidemics, tens of millions of people died. And in general it is a miracle that such statesmen as Lenin and Stalin, and not all Trotsky and Socialist-Revolutionaries, came to power, as a result of which Russia would disintegrate like Austria-Hungary and the Ottoman Empire, and the territories of former Russia would become English, French, American and Japanese colonies.
          Quote: Lannan Shi
          And if 1-2% of these resources are used to satisfy the wishes of those in power, this is one compote. And if 20-30, then ... That's when all sorts of unnecessary things, like the Navy, should be put on a hungry ration. And whether the country needs an elite, for which a personal yacht is more important than a frigate for the Navy, everyone decides for himself. Due to its depravity. I think that the interests of the Alekperormordashovs are secondary. You ... Well, apparently you have so stuck to the trough that you deeply spit on the army and navy.

          You are exactly that ... Nowhere in the world does the elite live on 1-2% of state revenues.
          1. The comment was deleted.
            1. Vadim237
              Vadim237 5 January 2021 19: 04
              -5
              "It is you who urge you to rush with vigorous loaves, where the fleet is not strong enough, not me." So tactical nuclear weapons are in several kilotons, why throw an explosion in Beirut with some kind of nuclear weapons showed that it can work quite well both in terms of psychological action and material damage to the enemy.
          2. 210ox
            210ox 5 January 2021 17: 26
            +1
            In general, when it comes to the death of our servicemen (murder in another country, not in a war), it is necessary to be "Hitler".
      2. Cyril G ...
        Cyril G ... 5 January 2021 11: 48
        +5
        Quote: Kot_Kuzya
        The USA, for example, for some reason was in no hurry to bomb the USSR with atomic bombs in 1950, although at that time they had an overwhelming advantage both in strategic bombers and in the number of atomic bombs.


        The United States had both Stark and Pueblo and Liberty, with a bunch of corpses in the first and third cases.
      3. unknown
        unknown 5 January 2021 17: 36
        +1
        All revolutions are prepared from above.
        What kind of people?
      4. cmax
        cmax 5 January 2021 18: 59
        -1
        Quote: Kot_Kuzya
        Quote: Lannan Shi
        I remember the Turks shot down the plane of our Aerospace Forces. Azerbaijan has recently landed our helicopter. As you can see, they are attacking. And not even the entire bloc, and not even the countries from the bloc, but a very wretched third world country in terms of military power. And what is typical, the Strategic Missile Forces did not punish them for some reason. Or is an attack for you when enemy tanks crawl into Red Square? And the downed plane / helicopter - little things in life? Well, under such a sauce, they can let the Kuzya go to the bottom. This is not a war, but an annoying misunderstanding.

        You again, as usual, cringe. In Syria, our Aerospace Forces fought with the Barmaley, and the Turks helped them. In war, you know, planes are sometimes shot down. As an example, one can cite the wars in Korea and Vietnam, when both Soviet and American planes were shot down, but the United States, for example, for some reason was in no hurry to bomb the USSR with atomic bombs in 1950, although at that time they had an overwhelming advantage as in strategic bombers, and in the number of atomic bombs. The same was with the helicopter in Karabakh, there was a war there.
        Quote: Lannan Shi
        Contradict your own words. Why do we need a strong army if we have a mighty Strategic Missile Forces? A pair of three brigades will be enough to disperse a small gang. Okay divisions. And everything else is vigorous to jam with a loaf. What kind of savings will come out?

        They are already doing this, it is not for nothing that the army is now switching to contract service, and even privates are now mostly contract soldiers, not conscripts.
        Quote: Lannan Shi
        By the way. Lack of finance. Our opponents, at least the overwhelming majority of them, will not remember frank Bantustans, the elites for some reason unfasten the state from 30 to 50% of income. We have ... 15. What is the problem to improve the financial issue? We have the wrong elite? Ready to hang yourself for a penny? So can change it, and not clamp down the fleet? Or do we have a wrong government and guarantor, unable to manage finances? So can they change, and not destroy the fleet?

        In 1917 and 1991, the people also thought like you, and believed that we would throw off the old leadership, and live! Or take our neighbors, who were jumping around with pans on their heads. Also healed better? Where is the guarantee that we will heal better? I doubt it very much.

        Inquire about the respected minimum wage for 2021 in Russia and Ukraine. Copperheads already have more than 210 USD, and in Russia about 180. You don't need to write anything, a trifle, but everything is clear without the letters.
        1. Sanichsan
          Sanichsan 7 January 2021 21: 42
          -3
          Quote: cmax
          Inquire about the respected minimum wages for 2021 in Russia and Ukraine. Copperheads already have more than 210 USD, and in Russia about 180.

          are you talking about ukrovskuyu attempt to rob the gray sn? Well, that is a given! attainment! good
          maybe then you can figure out why several million ukrov come to us to work, and not on the turnover? wink
        2. Kvazar
          Kvazar 8 January 2021 12: 59
          0
          Yeah, only the average salary in Ukraine is 2 times lower, food is more expensive, housing and communal services are more expensive, infrastructure is almost dead or dead. You can compare the minimum salary further)
          1. Pilat2009
            Pilat2009 19 January 2021 10: 08
            0
            Quote: Kvazar
            Yeah, only the average salary in Ukraine is 2 times lower, food is more expensive, housing and communal services are more expensive, infrastructure is almost dead or dead. You can compare the minimum salary further)

            You can not even compare the minimum. The salary of Kiev, Kharkov, Dnipro overtakes ours in the provinces
      5. Revival
        Revival 6 January 2021 03: 54
        +5
        1. Turkey personally and directly shot down our plane, and not through third parties!
        2. Azerbaijan personally and directly shot down our helicopter, one hundred kilometers from the war.
        And we? And we...
        3. In 1917 they threw off and healed better, the majority, but the minority did not, they were thrown off.
        And in Ukraine there was a coup of the tops, no one for the majority had a better life, and the minority changed the minority. That is the difference between a revolution and a coup.
        And yes, there is no guarantee and never was ...
        1. Kvazar
          Kvazar 8 January 2021 13: 04
          +1
          1. Shot down. And then suddenly there was a military coup. Where Sultan was warned by Russia in advance and he failed. At the same time, the air force pilots, almost in full force, sat down on bunks.
          2. Who is there and what was shot down is not known. At the moment, the Prosecutor's Office of the Russian Federation is working with the Prosecutor's Office of Azerbaijan.
          3. Who healed best? Let me remind you that the losses from the "Revolution were under 30! Million people." Including hunger in Russia? And then from 20 to 91. The RFSRS donated 30% of its income from budget revenues to the fund for assistance in the development of "fraternal republics." For 1991. The RFSRS budget was 121 billion rubles and the RFSRS gave 70 billion rubles to the fund. That is, they earned 191 lards, but they could only spend 121. At the same time, as soon as the question was raised that the contribution of the RFSRS to the fund would be no more than 10 lards, and for them the republics would have to supply goods worth this amount to the RFSRS, a parade of sovereignties began.
          I can remind you that apart from this fund there was also external credit and resources at non-market prices. At the same time, external credit was formed because The USSR bought feed grain .... SUDDENLY for the Ukrainian SSR.
          Thank you Russians do not want another slavery. Let the communists build their paradise in the USA. We have already started the article.
    2. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa 5 January 2021 16: 35
      +6
      Quote: Lannan Shi
      So can they change, and not destroy the fleet?

      The time is ripe for change. Everybody feels it. But the changes should be "peaceful" and not "to the ground, and then ..." We have already gone through this ...
      Therefore, on the sly, systematically in the necessary track of the SOCIAL state, it is necessary to steer, and not "break the wall", as the students sing, who have not done anything in their life and have not built anything!

      Yes, and the second branch of BAM and TurkSib must be extended. This is where these "songwriters" need to be sent - voluntarily and compulsorily! So that they don't walk around Moscow with white ribbons.
      AHA.
      1. Revival
        Revival 6 January 2021 03: 56
        +1
        Yeah, can you give examples of "quiet and consistent" changes towards the welfare state?
        1. Boa kaa
          Boa kaa 6 January 2021 11: 24
          +1
          Quote: Revival
          Can you give examples of "quiet and consistent" changes towards the welfare state?

          Sweden.
          1. Revival
            Revival 6 January 2021 13: 23
            0
            Well, yes, of course, Sweden ..
            The evolution of Sweden was paid for by the appearance of the USSR and changes in it, WWII and the struggle against the socialist camp.
            So by.
            There has never been a voluntary, peaceful transition to socialism, no one shares because of "moral" values
        2. Pilat2009
          Pilat2009 Today, 10: 09
          0
          Quote: Revival
          Yeah, can you give examples of "quiet and consistent" changes towards the welfare state?

          Для этого достаточно изучить историю и сравнить положение стран в 1900х годах и сейчас.сравните уровень жизни англичан и американцев в 1900х,1960х и сейчас и вы увидите социальное государство
    3. Wertgan
      Wertgan 5 January 2021 19: 17
      -2
      To change the elite, it was necessary to go to a referendum when called. But the people did not go, but were angry because of the notorious zeroing. So that....
      1. Revival
        Revival 6 January 2021 03: 57
        0
        So it seems like everyone accepted !?
        So where is the change of elites?
        1. Wertgan
          Wertgan 10 January 2021 23: 15
          0
          Compare what the president asked in his speech on January 15, 2020, and what was accepted. It was not possible to get rid of the enslaving articles. Sabotage as it is ... And here's another thing: if we realized that an information war is going on against Russia, then we probably should be soldiers of such a war, and not its victims. When people do not want to understand what is happening, saying the same thing ... Like, the government is bad, the president is bad, then such a nvrod turns into a victim of an information war.
  • times
    times 5 January 2021 10: 32
    35
    Quote: Kot_Kuzya
    I don't understand the thoughts of such people. Here they are drowning for the construction of a mega and super-duper fleet for Russia, absolutely not taking into account that such a fleet is very, VERY expensive, and Russia does not have such a geographical position to develop a fleet at the expense of the army

    You are not right. People are drowning in order to create an efficient and necessary fleet at an affordable price. And in real life the fleet is being built useless and even more expensive.
    1. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... 5 January 2021 14: 27
      +5
      For the same grandmother, one could get a completely adequate fleet, moreover, being able to ensure parity in the regional theater of operations. Of course, we don't take USN into account in this situation.
    2. Usher
      Usher 5 January 2021 19: 33
      -4
      And what is being created now? UDC construction will give experience and impetus. This is a test of the pen. Efficient and affordable, it can't be. And the author writes "everything is gone" "must give up"
      1. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 7 January 2021 05: 31
        0
        Quote: Usher
        And what is being created now? UDC construction will give experience and impetus. This is a test of the pen.

        Uh-huh ... the SSBN fleet has nothing to withdraw from the base - but we will build the UDC. And when we build it, it turns out that there is no escort or air group for them.
        1. Kvazar
          Kvazar 8 January 2021 13: 11
          0
          Well, how would it be to build and equip it for at least 10 years (but in reality, taking into account R&D and mandatory mistakes from 15 to 25 years of effort). Because UDC is a hospital, headquarters, supply base, and only after that a shock unit. UDC is a little simpler than an aircraft carrier or a nuclear-powered icebreaker.
          We have no competence to build them. Therefore, they ordered Mistrals (2 from them and 2 from us should have been built).
          It's been 6 years now. In 9 MB years we will get a working UDC and the ability to build them (and an understanding of what and how to change for us).
          Everything is simple and easy for you.
  • lopuhan2006
    lopuhan2006 5 January 2021 15: 29
    +4
    You about Thomas, and you about Eremu ... either stupid, or a military man
  • orcinus
    orcinus 5 January 2021 18: 28
    +4
    How many have already explained, more than 70 percent of the world trade turnover goes by sea. Remember the logical chain: goods-sea-economic development / security-weak fleet = weak economic prospects. I drew a similar chain for my 3-year-old son. Pysy. In one "warm" country, the resource, practically, of the majority of BTA has already been squeezed.
  • businessv
    businessv 6 January 2021 14: 46
    -1
    Quote: Kot_Kuzya
    Here they are drowning for the construction of a mega and super-duper fleet for Russia, absolutely not taking into account that such a fleet is very, VERY expensive, and Russia does not have such a geographical position to develop a fleet at the expense of the army.

    You have not completely understood, dear! Rather, they did not delve into either the article or the comments at all! Here they are drowning for the correct, zealous and reliable defense of Russia, which today is headed by not entirely competent and honest people. Or rather, completely incompetent and dishonest! Above in the comments, colleagues wrote about the amount of $ 167 billion (EMNIP), which were allocated for the fleet, is this a small amount?soldier
    1. Sanichsan
      Sanichsan 7 January 2021 21: 50
      -4
      Quote: businessv
      Here they are drowning for the correct, diligent and reliable defense of Russia, which today is headed by not entirely competent and honest people.

      who drowns for this? the author who counts from the first lines starts to fake? when at the beginning of the article they lie to you about the "most modern" fighter of 1988, how to perceive the rest?
      1. businessv
        businessv 8 January 2021 11: 25
        0
        Quote: SanichSan
        when at the beginning of the article they lie to you about the "most modern" fighter of 1988, how to perceive the rest?
        I do not quite understand what exactly you mean. If this phrase is in front of the photo of MIGs
        And the best attitude towards him is shown by this photograph of the latest naval MiGs of the Navy.
        , it seems to me, it was irony in its purest form. And then, the article is about the fleet, and not about the VKS, although there is also a mess there!
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  • Petro_tut
    Petro_tut 6 January 2021 22: 06
    0
    Russia is not located on an island like Britain and Japan

    Look at the length of the coastline of Russia on the globe, then you will understand whether or not Russia needs a fleet
    1. Kvazar
      Kvazar 8 January 2021 13: 15
      0
      And what's there? 13 zones A2 / AD and 14 in Syria?
  • Charik
    Charik 5 January 2021 05: 36
    19 th
    you need to stock up on seeds - today again a battle of experts and just amateurs, to bow and praise the Army, industry and politicians
  • Termit1309
    Termit1309 5 January 2021 05: 39
    12 th
    Well, this is what happens when doctors drink on New Year's holidays and weaken medical supervision. Patients scatter and start saving the world.
  • Charik
    Charik 5 January 2021 05: 42
    19 th
    the media will answer-And the press service said and will continue to invite multispecialists on global issues on the air for a fee from budget money
  • Alexander Vorontsov
    Alexander Vorontsov 5 January 2021 06: 06
    10 th
    I hesitate to ask - what is the meaning of "extracting a practical torpedo from under the ice"?
    1. Stas1973
      Stas1973 5 January 2021 06: 13
      30
      For reloading and reuse.
      The article itself is solid. Not a single false fact. Everything on the case
      1. Boa kaa
        Boa kaa 5 January 2021 17: 28
        17
        Quote: Stas1973
        The article itself is solid. Not a single false fact. Everything on the case

        Stanislav, hi
        It's hard to argue with you. The authors are competent and respected people with a clear civil position. BUT ,,,, The sediment from the read "tears the template" ... And for me, who gave the fleet 37 years, it is very painful to read this ...
        And nevertheless, there are questions with which I cannot agree.
        1. "The fleet fell under the industry"... The statement is more than incorrect. The Navy would like to order a Death Star, but the pros ... can only row a barge. Therefore: FLEET is a mirror of the scientific and technical level of the flag country. What the professionals can, they give out to the mountain. And it's not the fault, but the problem of the fleet that we have the "Barrier" as it is ... and thank God that at least something is moving. Learn - it will be more and better.
        2. Helicopters "landing" are landed at the water's edge. This is not a landing, but a defensive group: sappers for clearing passages on the shore in the PMZ ... The author's mistake from ignorance of the tactics of the MP, well, he is forgiven - he is a MINER! (with a capital letter).
        3. I agree with the statement that MA as a branch of the Navy -- simply no! And she, oh how, is needed! And it should be based on - up to 1000 km = Su-34MA, and then - Tu-22M3M with anti-ship missiles 3M22 and their descendants ...
        Why did it happen that the MPA rested in the Bose? Yes, simply because the VKS GC needed to "save shoulder straps": there were no forces left under the Air Force at all, so they gave him the remnants of "22" from all types and kinds of forces to maintain his pants ...
        4. PMO rpkSN-s problem. I do not take into account self-transporting mines. And on a bottom mine when leaving the Kola in Motovsky in the NP it is hardly possible to blow up, the depth is 300m after all. "Captors" and "Hammerfish" will not be put there, MGK 607 seems to be covered, and the map of false contacts is constantly updated, again, control trawling and the search for mines is underway.
        And during "D" all questions of the BSHZ will be solved. Moreover, "without looking at the fishermen"! - how the commander of the local OVR told me over a glass of tea. And destroyer seekers (such as KIU-2M), of course, are needed. And they will not be undermined with the carriers, tk. Their FIELDS are below the triggering threshold of the NV DM. And nothing will be extracted there - PP and all the cases!
        5. On the Serdyukov-Makarov reform ... They are not the authors. They are beating dolls. By the way, I am entirely for such a decision of the General Staff of the RF Armed Forces. They enlarged the districts, removed the "internal" ones, made "directions" from the districts, which in the course of the war (without "shaking up" and reorganizing ") immediately turn into FRONTS. all!
        And at the expense of the article - offensive, annoying, but TRUE! (although hyperbole slept here!)
        Definitely a PLUS!
        1. Alceers
          Alceers 6 January 2021 22: 48
          +1
          Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
          And at the expense of the article - it is insulting, annoying, but the TRUTH! (although hyperbole slept here!)
          Definitely a PLUS!

          They are not aware of all the problems yet ....))) Some of the specialists from related departments for bch1,4,5 .... They also keep a lot of saliva in their mouths ... If Klimov would not have been so in communication unbearable and harsh, he would have had a couple of dozen articles for himself ... and I personally know the guys that after his quirks and rudeness they swore to deal with him ...
          1. Fizik M
            Fizik M 15 January 2021 22: 26
            +1
            Quote: Alceers
            after his quirks and rudeness, they swore to deal with him ...

            YOU are just publicly BEATHED
            for BUSINESS
            but what about "sworn" - belay then Vitka Chirkova CORRECTED from how much and how he communicated with me (including admirals) at the same conference on carrier-based aviation
            well, or not so long ago they gave private chats to read about my person and my actions
            1. Alceers
              Alceers 15 January 2021 23: 39
              +1
              YOU are just publicly BEATHED
              for BUSINESS

              By the way, by the way, you have still not apologized to me in public for the nonsense that you were carrying ... mistaking me for God knows who, and even attributing to me your fantasies and wet dreams. I'm still waiting ... I'm even ready to forgive, under certain circumstances it could even work.
              But I will say so.
              Who is teal? For how many years? Not to mention the fact that he himself was an accidental person in his post. And from his nominees just right to cry. But here's a more or less reliable infa you have freshness from those times ... and After the story with the mine on the main military hospital, only the lazy one does not show you with a finger ... and there is no one to blame here except himself and his own quarrelsomeness. And how do you and Timokhin just get along? He's kind of adequate and polite? And there are brains and analyzes are sensible.
              1. Fizik M
                Fizik M 16 January 2021 00: 07
                -1
                Quote: Alceers
                By the way, by the way, you have not yet publicly apologized to me for the nonsense that you were carrying ...

                navigator, did you confuse anything? or you again face on the table in YOUR posts? including screenshots of what you havetily rubbed?
                Quote: Alceers
                I'm still waiting ... I'm even ready to forgive, under certain circumstances it could even work.

                I basically have no serious business with rotten people
                Quote: Alceers
                Who is teal? For how many years?

                face through which "pull the strings"
                Quote: Alceers
                And from his nominees just right to cry.

                it yes
                Quote: Alceers
                But here's more or less reliable infa you have freshness from those times.

                yes, count as you like
                Quote: Alceers
                and after the story with the mine on the main military hospital, only a non-lazy finger does not show you

                Yeah, especially after checking the FSB in St. Petersburg, when they thought it was a "joke", and when they were told (smart people) that no, there was a "full diaper"
                By the way, when a few months ago they tried to "sew on the case" for me, the question of the layout on the GVMP did not arise at all, they simply asked - "why?" (and my answers turned out to be more than weighty)
                Quote: Alceers
                and blame here except myself

                You are delusional
                drink some water
                Quote: Alceers
                And how do you and Timokhin just get along?

                yes we fought with him
                in his LJ it all lies
                Quote: Alceers
                He's kind of adequate and polite?

                especially before punching
                By the way, me too
                before "indecent" angry inflict (ask Zarenkov, he seemed to be sitting at the NOC (with 3 more commanders) when I violated the "statutory relationship between servicemen" at his door laughing ), I even talked VERY politely with him for a couple of minutes repeat
        2. Cyril G ...
          Cyril G ... 6 January 2021 22: 50
          -1
          Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
          Why did it happen that the MPA rested in the Bose? Yes, simply because the VKS GC needed to "save shoulder straps": there were no forces left under the Air Force at all, so they gave him the remnants of "22" from all types and kinds of forces to maintain his pants ...

          Come on. By that time, the Tu-22 had not flown for a long time. And the transfer of the Tu-22M was the salvation of the aircraft and pilots. The fleet would simply have killed them completely. What is there to talk about, if even in fat years the fleet provided the MiG-31 pilots with 30-40 hours of flight time, and this is for 2015
          Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
          I do not take into account self-transporting mines.

          But in our Avachinskaya bay, at the exit, you can put anchor from the sampan, here are such anonymous

          Semi-handmade ....
        3. Fizik M
          Fizik M 15 January 2021 22: 54
          +1
          Quote: Alceers
          bch1,4,5 ..

          1... Before "something" flew into the "sand", I was suddenly "pulled up", after his decision-makers received the necessary information. For example, what can and what cannot "A-ta"I suppose you know as well as I do (after all, your specialty). But for a number of decision makers, this turned out to be unexpected news.
          4... The fact that one recent and amazing event in Crimea took place after acc. service "spitz" was rigidly otbutskali "army boots" from acc. "Central Council", I do not just "know in detail", it was considered necessary to inform me of certain VIP-persons.
          5... The Navy learned about the scale of the disaster with diesel engines for the 22800 through me (I'm not talking about the report, but what was much earlier, what was reported through "unofficial channels", and where I was "in the shadows")
        4. Fizik M
          Fizik M 15 January 2021 23: 08
          0
          Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
          FLEET is a mirror of the scientific and technical level of the flag country. What the pros can do, they give out to the mountain

          this is not true
          industry really can do a LOT more
          what is happening in our country is sabotage = preparation for the military defeat of the country
          Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
          And it's not the fault, but the trouble of the fleet that we have the "Barrier" as it is ... and thank God that at least something is moving. Learn - it will be more and better.

          they stupidly SAW BABLO
          after the "tower" and "compact" they got the nickname
          Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
          PMO rpkSN-s problem. I do not take into account self-transporting mines.

          in vain
          Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
          And on a bottom mine when leaving Kola in Motovsky in the NP it is hardly possible to blow up, the depth is 300m after all.

          look at the map
          Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
          and the map of false contacts is constantly updated, again, control trawls and the search for mines is underway.

          THAN??? it's not even funny
          Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
          And during "D" all questions of the BSHZ will be solved. Moreover, "without looking at the fishermen"! - how the commander of the local OVR told me over a glass of tea

          it's fantasy
          starting with the fact that the "laces" were passed to non-ferrous metals and ending with the low efficiency of BShZ
          Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
          FIELDS they have below the NV DM operation threshold

          This "splint" was also told to you in OVR?
      2. Alexander Vorontsov
        Alexander Vorontsov 5 January 2021 18: 18
        -4
        Quote: Stas1973
        For reloading and reuse.
        The article itself is solid. Not a single false fact. Everything on the case

        Hmm ... no, of course, thanks for your answer.
        As asked and answered.

        The essence of the question is different - how is shooting in the overhead different from shooting in open water, where is it much easier to pick up a torpedo?
        The point is to train it with a podold, so that you can then bother with sawing the lane and pulling out the torpedo.
        Either they themselves made hemorrhoids out of the blue.
        Or there is some fundamental difference between shooting in two different environments.

        Actually, the question is - is there a difference? Or it is not there and there is just an extra hemorrhoid, which, well ... technically, it is not a problem to execute it with a chainsaw.
        1. timokhin-aa
          5 January 2021 23: 53
          +5
          Actually, the question is - is there a difference? Or it is not there and there is just extra hemorrhage


          Would the Americans have arranged all this if there hadn't been a difference?
          1. Alexander Vorontsov
            Alexander Vorontsov 6 January 2021 12: 47
            0
            Quote: timokhin-aa
            Actually, the question is - is there a difference? Or it is not there and there is just extra hemorrhage

            Would the Americans have arranged all this if there hadn't been a difference?

            The fact of the matter is that it is unlikely.
            That's why I ask what these advantages are.

            What comes to my mind is that under the ice the sound from the surface is reflected in a completely different way. Which, in theory, can influence the shooting result.
            Which is consistent with the answer below
            Practice is taken in order to find out how the CLO worked.


            But why guess if there should be specialists in the topic. That's why I asked.
            1. Fizik M
              Fizik M 15 January 2021 22: 17
              -1
              Quote: Alexander Vorontsov
              there should be specialists in the subject

              he already answered
              acc. article
    2. Charik
      Charik 5 January 2021 07: 35
      -6
      You were minus for being shy
      1. Aag
        Aag 5 January 2021 14: 31
        0
        Quote: Charik
        You were minus for being shy

        I corrected that ... By the way, you are also a plus, for the search for justice. For all your other comments, excuse me, minus ... hi
    3. K298rtm
      K298rtm 5 January 2021 13: 26
      11
      Practice is taken in order to find out how the CLO worked.
  • Kaetani
    Kaetani 5 January 2021 06: 28
    12
    The questions are good. The topic is covered in a large volume.

    I think that today there will be just 5 pages of comments. And most importantly, so much will be written here that the enemy intelligence services never dreamed of
    1. Sergey Valov
      Sergey Valov 5 January 2021 11: 11
      +1
      Let them write, let the enemy read and try to understand at least something. Real guys who know the topic are likely to laugh when reading these verbal battles. Alas, the local level dropped to the baseboard. The main complaints are why they put a minus.
      1. Charik
        Charik 5 January 2021 12: 04
        -7
        yes-and then-she drowned-they burned-I can't hear and the others-khekhe
      2. voronin
        voronin 5 January 2021 13: 50
        17
        Quote: Sergey Valov
        Real guys who know the topic are likely to laugh while reading these verbal battles

        "Real guys" who know the topic, most likely saw the budget
        1. unknown
          unknown 5 January 2021 17: 40
          -1
          In fact, the word "kid" has an offensive meaning.
          Unfortunately, many do not understand the meaning of the words they use.
          1. Sergey Valov
            Sergey Valov 7 January 2021 12: 32
            0
            You are right, you should have written "real specialists".
  • Charik
    Charik 5 January 2021 06: 40
    10 th
    Oh it started, and I thought everyone was sleeping
    1. Alexander Galaktionov
      Alexander Galaktionov 5 January 2021 06: 51
      +4
      No time to sleep, military site we are all going through
  • Alexander Galaktionov
    Alexander Galaktionov 5 January 2021 06: 46
    +2
    I have a question for the Author, what does the Author mean about pr 22350 with enhanced weapons? Is it three sets of 8 missiles for strike weapons or pr22350M? And another question to the Author, is it worth changing the broadsword on the sides? On Armor ME, what is on the MRK Odintsov and add to the nose?
    1. faiver
      faiver 5 January 2021 08: 15
      +3
      there is nowhere to put the shell
      1. Alexander Galaktionov
        Alexander Galaktionov 5 January 2021 08: 24
        +1
        For the place of Broadsword, Can't put the Carapace ME?
        1. faiver
          faiver 5 January 2021 08: 29
          +2
          I'm talking about the bow, but what about instead of broadswords you need to look
          1. Alexander Galaktionov
            Alexander Galaktionov 5 January 2021 08: 34
            0
            About the bow if lengthened, as pr 20385 lengthened by 3 meters
            1. faiver
              faiver 5 January 2021 08: 38
              +2
              at least lengthen it at least not, there is nowhere to put the shell, it will interfere with the weapon, with an increase in length it is easier to put in the body, which is more powerful to put the type "redoubt"
              1. Usher
                Usher 5 January 2021 19: 29
                0
                The length is written with one letter "n".
                1. faiver
                  faiver 5 January 2021 19: 33
                  -2
                  wassat , and sho? now put a two? everybody has a problem hi
        2. faiver
          faiver 5 January 2021 08: 45
          +3
          looked, it is unlikely that instead of broadswords, the shells will rise, they also have cellars with missiles under the installations ...
          1. timokhin-aa
            5 January 2021 12: 12
            +5
            SHP Armor is higher in height than UVP "Reduta"
  • Alexander Galaktionov
    Alexander Galaktionov 5 January 2021 06: 50
    +2
    And another question to the Author, how many ships he sees are needed, pr 20385 normal with working air defense and GAS towed and frigates pr 22350 in each fleet hi
    1. Charik
      Charik 5 January 2021 06: 56
      -3
      He does not see them, because there are none (from air defense norms and gasbooks), but this is not certain
    2. timokhin-aa
      5 January 2021 12: 13
      12
      Not the author, but let's just say that the initial plans to build 18 frigates and 30 corvettes were not bad.
      Political issues intervened with frigates, the power plant remained in Ukraine, etc., it was only now overcome, but with corvettes it turned out very badly in the end.
      And there were no objective reasons there. This is a purely organizational problem.
  • Indifferent
    Indifferent 5 January 2021 06: 55
    40 th
    Author, for whom do you work tirelessly with your fingers and not sparing the keyboard? Who pays? To begin with, it's time to understand that Russia is a LANDLAND country and we need a good ground army. But we only need a fleet to defend our borders. We don't need to drag our power overseas! And I am very glad that the government does not have people like this subject, whose goal is to discredit the fleet and further down the list. You need to start with what are the tasks of our fleet? And she is essentially one. Support from the sea for the land group of our forces, including small amphibious operations. ALL! And for this a large fleet is not needed. At least now, in a difficult period for the country. And we all know how to scratch with tongues! Just give the topic, whom you want to spread in a cake and wipe your feet on the cake. Your article, the author, is intended for narrow-minded people who do not really understand the tactics of maintaining modern databases. Well, people also say that it is customary to stretch legs according to clothes. The United States stretched out its legs so that they have not had enough clothes for a long time. It happens that AUG cannot be collected for military service.
    1. Alexander Galaktionov
      Alexander Galaktionov 5 January 2021 07: 05
      +2
      I mean SNF? We have a nuclear triad
    2. Alexander Galaktionov
      Alexander Galaktionov 5 January 2021 07: 08
      +3
      Agitation from the United Russia party? lol
    3. Putnik119
      Putnik119 5 January 2021 07: 10
      21 th
      I agree almost completely. A huge fleet is not designed to defend a land country. It is designed to ensure its dominance over the main sea trade routes and to ensure the transfer of the occupying army around the world. Look at a map of the world, combining major shipping routes and US base locations. You will be surprised. And there is nothing here to rivet thousands of frigates. I think the asymmetric variant of the development of anti-ship weapons is correct. Vaughn, after hitting Syria with "calibers", the American AUG quickly unscrewed from the Persian Gulf. Coincidence? I don’t think so. And the protected sevmorput is in a row here. And the attack submarines are in place. And of course, tactical support groups for merchant ships on the paths of escorting ships will not interfere. And thousands of pelvis in peacetime at sea are ruin for the country. It's like here there was an article about the small number of SU57s in the troops "compared to NATO." Are we fighting? We still have to see what kind of "Maxim Klyuev" is. Here appears a lot of articles of all kinds of Romanov Ivanovs with nonsense.
      1. timokhin-aa
        5 January 2021 13: 04
        +9
        A huge fleet is not designed to defend a land country.


        From what enemy do you want to defend the "land" country?
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 5 January 2021 18: 55
          -2
          Possible opponents of NATO, US troops in the Baltics, Ukrainian Nazis, militants from the Middle East, possible coups in the CIS countries with the coming to power of radicals, and of course, China may come to power there another Mao in the future, we will not know this in advance - as you can see, defend the land there is a border from whom, especially since the Russian border is the longest in the world.
          1. timokhin-aa
            6 January 2021 11: 25
            +2
            Potential NATO adversaries, US troops in the Baltics,

            They cannot do without Atlantic convoys and well-established port infrastructure.

            Ukrainian natsik


            A little not our weight category, we will pass them even with what we have.

            militants from the Middle East possible coups in the CIS countries with the coming to power of radicals


            Same

            and of course, China may be the next Mao will come to power in the future, we will not know in advance


            Mao was already there, there were several provocations, plus the Chinese themselves were afraid of us, they were going to defend themselves right up to the Beijing defense region.
            Well, China is choking on a long-range blockade from the sea.
            1. Vadim237
              Vadim237 6 January 2021 13: 02
              -5
              "They cannot do without Atlantic convoys and well-established port infrastructure." Why - they have hundreds of VTA planes quickly transfer everything.
              "It's not a little our weight category, we will pass them even with what we have." Now it is not enough - tomorrow a million fully equipped and equipped scumbags with Javelins with large-caliber sniper rifles MANPADS artillery armored vehicles shock drones and kamikaze drones - the loot from the west for them every year comes like a weapon.
              "Mao was already there, there were several provocations, plus the Chinese themselves were afraid of us" - That was 50 years ago, now the situation has changed.
              Russia does not need a large fleet of everything that is being done now - it will not fight with anyone in the open oceans thousands of kilometers away, and in order to keep the opponents of large fleets in good shape, it is necessary to create anti-ship MRBMs with a range of up to 5000 kilometers - cheap and effective in keeping.
    4. svp67
      svp67 5 January 2021 07: 20
      +6
      Quote: indifferent
      You need to start with what are the tasks of our fleet? And she is essentially one. Support from the sea for the land group of our forces, including small amphibious operations. ALL!

      Are you sure? And we didn’t think about why the Northern Fleet became a separate military-administrative unit, just for this ...
    5. Aleksandr1971
      Aleksandr1971 5 January 2021 07: 41
      17
      You, Indifferent, criticize not the author, but those who saw the state budget. At GPV-2020, 5 trillion rubles were allocated in part of the fleet. for the production of the number of ships and equipment named in the article. And the result was only 30-40% of the planned. But the SAP is an integral part of the budget legislation. And for non-compliance - responsibility. For some reason, the truth about who and what responsibility is not heard.

      The question is:
      1.Where did the money of 3-4 trillion rubles go? Apparently in the pocket of the heads of military-industrial complex enterprises and representatives of customers from the RF Ministry of Defense. How to react to this?

      2. Why was the GPV 2020 so stupid? How to deal with wacky GPV 2020 planners?

      And you, Indifferent, for some reason criticize the author of the article instead. As if he was to blame.
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 5 January 2021 18: 43
        -5
        "At GPV-2020, 5 trillion rubles were allocated in part of the fleet for the production of the number of ships and equipment named in the article" - Did they really allocate 5 trillion rubles - funding usually goes for a year, depending on the state of the budget, starting from 2014 plans to allocate funds most likely they simply cut back on the fleet and part of the money was sent to import substitution of what we bought in Ukraine and in other countries, which in turn slowed down the construction of ships Yasinya initially planned to build 30, but then cut it down to 10 from further construction of frigates 11353R refused to build destroyers then the same and so on.
      2. Usher
        Usher 5 January 2021 19: 27
        -4
        laughing do not tell what 4 trillion rubles. Have you even read the budget?
    6. Sling cutter
      Sling cutter 5 January 2021 09: 36
      20
      Quote: indifferent
      Author, for whom do you work tirelessly with your fingers and not sparing the keyboard? Who pays? To begin with, it's time to understand for yourself that Russia is a LANDLAND country and we need a good land army.

      "Masterpiece" comment! wassat Where do you come from, these are the commentators? request
      1. orcinus
        orcinus 5 January 2021 20: 12
        +1
        They fall out of the bath, sit down at a birch table and write such hell together with a bear in felt boots. It was possible, as I was taught at one time: "not to look in the eyes, not to speak loudly and not to turn your back ...", but there are more and more of them - guys with a sticker on the rear window of the car "we can repeat". Only, unfortunately, they repeat, God forbid, they will not, but we and our children ... And then another "swollen from life" face will talk on camera about the "cunning of the enemy" and "heroism and stamina of our guys"
    7. timokhin-aa
      5 January 2021 12: 15
      17
      First, it's time to understand that Russia is a LANDLAND country


      1. Give the criteria for a land country.
      2. We have all possible opponents, except for Ukraine and Poland overseas. Poland borders only with Kaliningrad, the connection with which is only by sea.
      Does this mean anything to you?
      1. Cherry Nine
        Cherry Nine 5 January 2021 15: 18
        -2
        Quote: timokhin-aa
        Give the criteria for a land country.

        I totally agree with the land-country argument. But there is a ma-a-a-scarlet nuance.

        The same people are engaged in land weapons. With the same hands. Well, maybe people have different surnames, but the soul is the same soul.
      2. Boa kaa
        Boa kaa 5 January 2021 17: 50
        +7
        Quote: timokhin-aa
        Does this mean anything to you?

        Alexander, it's just that such commentators are used to defending themselves at the gates of Moscow ... instead of drowning the expeditionary troops at the crossing by the sea, in the open part of the Atlantic, well, as a last resort, when unloading at ports or at communication centers ...
        For this you need a FLEET, and this is not part of a tank division ...
        Therefore, with 38 thousand km of the sea border, our country is a land one ...
        The total length of the state border of Russia is 60 km, including the land (on the mainland) - 932 km (of which river and lake - 22 km, actually land - 125 km), and sea ​​- 38 807 km

        Sadly, however.
        1. loki565
          loki565 6 January 2021 02: 51
          -1
          instead of drowning expeditionary troops at sea crossing, in the open part of the Atlantic, well, as a last resort, when unloading in ports or at communication centers ...

          How do you imagine it? Well, for example, tomorrow Latvia will want to host a 100 thousandth US ground forces grouping. And how will you prevent this, start sinking transport ships? If a turmoil begins, there will be no expeditionary troops, they will already be located in Europe
          1. timokhin-aa
            6 January 2021 11: 27
            +4
            With the start of hostilities, a 100-strong group will require about 50 tons of supplies per day - EVERY DAY.
            How are you going to ensure this without shipping?
            1. loki565
              loki565 6 January 2021 12: 23
              -2
              A little lower already answered this question to a colleague)))
          2. Boa kaa
            Boa kaa 6 January 2021 11: 33
            0
            Quote: loki565
            for example, tomorrow Latvia will want to host a 100-strong group of US ground forces.

            Colleague, you are fantasizing!
            100 thousand grouping is the force of the operation called "Invasion!" What kind of world to talk about then?
            And the second thing. It will be easier for us to capture the Limitrophe and its ports than to somersault with the expeditionary forces at sea.
            Third. Close the Baltic straits of the MZM and let them remember their landing on the Korean Peninsula in 1953 ...
            And they are not trained by airplanes. It is possible by land through the neighboring states, but this will immediately come out of donkey ears ...
            So let's get closer to the body, as Guy de Maupassant said! laughing
            1. loki565
              loki565 6 January 2021 12: 18
              -2
              This is the same fantasy as a direct attack on a nuclear power. Now the US can deploy any number of weapons and troops in any NATO country. We cannot prevent this, since we have a defensive doctrine and we will not deliver a preemptive strike, most likely))) Another question is that we are not a threat to the United States economically, politically, by military forces and in the near future we will not, but the threat of a retaliatory nuclear strike is quite real and the United States will not go into open conflict. There may be clashes on the territory of third countries, a hybrid war, or the hands of the barmaley will fight. For them, China is a more real threat, which is getting stronger every year, Iran is also a target (unless, of course, it still has no nuclear weapons)
              1. Petro_tut
                Petro_tut 6 January 2021 22: 39
                -1
                There may be clashes on the territory of third countries, a hybrid war, or the hands of the barmaley will fight

                As for me, they are fighting well with the hands of our officials
    8. SovAr238A
      SovAr238A 5 January 2021 13: 01
      20
      Quote: indifferent
      Author, for whom do you work tirelessly with your fingers and not sparing the keyboard? Who pays? To begin with, it's time to understand that Russia is a LANDLAND country and we need a good ground army. But we only need a fleet to defend our borders. We don't need to drag our power overseas! And I am very glad that the government does not have people like this subject, whose goal is to discredit the fleet and further down the list. You need to start with what are the tasks of our fleet? And she is essentially one. Support from the sea for the land group of our forces, including small amphibious operations. ALL! And for this a large fleet is not needed. At least now, in a difficult period for the country. And we all know how to scratch with tongues! Just give the topic, whom you want to spread in a cake and wipe your feet on the cake. Your article, the author, is intended for narrow-minded people who do not really understand the tactics of maintaining modern databases. Well, people also say that it is customary to stretch legs according to clothes. The United States stretched out its legs so that they have not had enough clothes for a long time. It happens that AUG cannot be collected for military service.


      How will we defend ourselves against the fact that over the next 10-15 years, hypersonic missiles with a range of up to 1500 km will be adopted by the ships of the enemy fleet?
      Modern cruise missiles launched from ships and submarines can fly 2500 kilometers (and if they do, even 4000 kilometers) - how will we defend ourselves?
      6000 KR ship-based Tomahawk is in service with the US Navy.
      What will you shoot them down with?
      How to protect the areas of the base of our SSBNs?

      Maybe the fleet should solve these problems?
      Move away from borders?
      Have the ability to destroy an enemy CD carrier before it empties the ammunition load?

      A difficult period for the country was created by the very group of people who have been in power for 30 years living like dragonflies ...
      What prevented huge amounts of petrodollars from investing in the economy?
      What prevented you from doing import substitution?
      What prevented you from changing the tax system?
      What prevented everything else from getting it right?
      Without embezzlement from the military-industrial complex?
      No dust in your eyes during parades?
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 5 January 2021 18: 28
        -9
        Have the ability to destroy an enemy CD carrier before it empties the ammunition load? A cheap option for solving this problem is the creation of anti-ship MRBMs with a range of 5000 kilometers for our designers to do it well. "Modern cruise missiles launched from ships and submarines can fly 2500 kilometers (and if they do, then 4000 km) - how will we defend ourselves?" As now, subsonic cruise missiles flying over the water surface with over-the-horizon radars by air defense and air force complexes will not present problems for interception.
        1. Tamer
          Tamer 5 January 2021 20: 08
          +3
          Quote: Vadim237
          Have the ability to destroy an enemy CD carrier before it empties the ammunition load? A cheap option for solving this problem is the creation of anti-ship MRBMs with a range of 5000 kilometers for our designers to do it well. "Modern cruise missiles launched from ships and submarines can fly 2500 kilometers (and if they do, then 4000 km) - how will we defend ourselves?" As now, subsonic cruise missiles flying over the water surface with over-the-horizon radars by air defense and air force complexes will not present problems for interception.

          Excuse me, but now over-the-horizon radars provide interception of the CD ?! No problem, anyway?
        2. orcinus
          orcinus 5 January 2021 21: 48
          +2
          Can you indicate the number of air defense missiles launched (let’s fantasize) at the same time, the probability of hitting a target of the "KR" type, as well as the reload time of the s300 / 400 system? And, and "who and what" will aim at the target, yes, at least, will find it in the ocean for the MRBM?)
        3. Revival
          Revival 6 January 2021 04: 24
          +2
          "A cheap option for solving this problem is the creation of anti-ship MRBMs with a range of 5000 kilometers for our designers to do it."

          Is this a brilliant insight?
          Not!?
          So where is that cheap option !!! ??
      2. Cympak
        Cympak 6 January 2021 01: 38
        +2
        The situation may become even worse when enemy destroyers will be able to shoot down intercontinental ballistic missiles fired from the mainland of the Russian Federation on marching sections.
    9. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 5 January 2021 14: 16
      +5
      Quote: indifferent
      To begin with, it's time to understand for yourself that Russia is a LANDLAND country and we need a good land army.

      A smart excuse for doing nothing! good
    10. IL38
      IL38 5 January 2021 16: 16
      +6
      Conclusions:

      1. The very attitude of the Ministry of Defense towards the Navy. Probably, such an attitude has legs growing since the Crimean War of 1854, Port Arthur in 1905 and Tsushima. The lack of efficiency in the Great Patriotic War does not add glory to the fleet. Defense Ministry officials did not see the significant role of the Soviet Navy in modern warfare.
      2. Permanent position of technically catching up in the race with the main potential opponent. If, for example, before 1917 everything could be ordered abroad. right up to the battleship, then after that it was necessary to copy and steal both machine tools, technologies and weapons samples. Nothing has changed if we recall the refusal of the French to supply the already paid Mistrals. Everyone knows about SOSOM (Coordinating Committee for Multilateral Export Controls).
      3. Insufficient provision of all types, mainly anti-submarine. Here and aviation (see point 2) and of course hydrographic support.
      4. The use of boat crews in various activities unusual for the service, such as harvesting, housekeeping, abnormal construction. All this is instead of simulations, studies and preparation for military service.
      5. The level of repair and specialists in factories. Acceptance of boats by dates, with imperfections, with "thanks" to the boat commanders from the plant for accepting equipment.
      6. Insufficient control over the level of work of mechanisms. This is also noted by the American submariners watching our SSBNs. After a year, new and quiet equipment becomes noisy and nobody cares about it.
      7. The work of submariners "for that guy" who did not have time, is not ready, is faulty. As an example of K-129 Kobzar and K-219 Britanov. Mystical numerology is direct.
      8. There was a fictitious closure of preparation tasks, but in comparison with some of the outrageous things happening now, this is minuscule.
      9. Poor tactical training of submariners.
      10. Insufficient knowledge of the material part, which is shown by accidents and disasters of both SSBNs and SSGNs together with PLA. K-429, K-19, K-278, K-27.
      11. Weak interaction even with those ASW forces that are available.
      12. A large number of observers-supervisors. Enormous reporting material, often duplicating itself.
      13. The indifference of some commanders, disregard for orders, instructions and instructions. I do not care precisely because of stubbornness -Here I am the commander, and I turn what I want. This is a consequence of the poor work of counterintelligence, agencies and levels of closeness of communication channels. The boat has not yet had time to leave, but they are already waiting for it.
      14. Design mistakes ... The presence of a light body, two shafts, two reactors. For example, why do the Pacific Fleet boats need a 30% buoyancy margin, supposedly invented to push through ice before shooting? Kamchatka boats do not sail in the Arctic.
      1. Usher
        Usher 5 January 2021 19: 26
        -1
        laughing Is it a mistake to have a "light body"? 30% buoyancy, is it unnecessary? And that there is no ice in the Sea of ​​Okhotsk? These words in you betray "sofa iksperda", it is better to sit further on the sofa.
        1. timokhin-aa
          5 January 2021 23: 33
          +3
          The presence of a light hull is precisely a mistake, with low-frequency illumination it gives the main secondary signature in terms of strength, greatly increasing the detection range of the boat by the enemy, in comparison with a single-hull boat.
          The two-body architecture should go down in history, and for a long time already.
          1. IL38
            IL38 5 January 2021 23: 41
            +1
            Who are you explaining to? Maxim is right ... such bunnies should be sent immediately. And with bad words.
        2. IL38
          IL38 5 January 2021 23: 38
          +1
          Search Wikipedia for what kind of ice there are. See the sailing directions for the Sea of ​​Okhotsk.
          What is the difference between types of ice. The recent Bulava shooting in the Sea of ​​Okhotsk. Have you seen ice there?
          Ice thickness in Barents, Laptev, etc.
          Then silly questions leave ...)))
  • Walking
    Walking 5 January 2021 07: 06
    +8
    I’m wondering, well, as an example, a little fantasy, if Japan captures the Kuril Islands, Russia will immediately begin to beat with yadrenbatons or try to do with conventional means, while the fleet, aviation and army of Japan are at a fairly high level. Or it will simply express concern.
    1. Alexander Galaktionov
      Alexander Galaktionov 5 January 2021 07: 18
      0
      The usual kernels will go later.Although it seems that you can revise the kernels immediately, but this is not accurate
    2. Kot_Kuzya
      Kot_Kuzya 5 January 2021 07: 18
      19 th
      Of course immediately vigorous with loaves. And the Japanese are well aware of this, so they do not climb the Kuril Islands.
      1. Alexander Galaktionov
        Alexander Galaktionov 5 January 2021 07: 31
        +4
        Turks killed the ambassador and did not fall on Turkey
      2. timokhin-aa
        5 January 2021 12: 16
        +8
        They DO NOT climb the Kuril Islands YET.
      3. Cympak
        Cympak 6 January 2021 01: 42
        0
        The Americans are behind the Japanese and they have military bases and treaties there.
    3. Alexander Galaktionov
      Alexander Galaktionov 5 January 2021 07: 20
      +9
      Foreign Ministry will always express concern lol Ministry of Expressions of Concern Coming Soon
    4. Charik
      Charik 5 January 2021 07: 24
      -9
      And why fight with Russia-it is dangerous-easier to buy-you never know-who will be presi-om-take and sell
    5. Alexander Galaktionov
      Alexander Galaktionov 5 January 2021 07: 26
      0
      Although, after the ambassador in Turkey was killed, they did not shoot nuclear bombs at Turkey. Here, the United States is holding off this nuclear weapon together with the Perimeter.
    6. Aleksandr1971
      Aleksandr1971 5 January 2021 07: 35
      +6
      In fact, Russia has no conventional funds. The TF RF can only oppose the DPRK.

      We'll have to immediately incinerate the cities of Japan. It is good that there are few cities there, and that the cities are densely populated. Moreover, maybe earthquakes will begin in the resonance of nuclear explosions. Moreover, nuclear power plants there are large - a quarter of all electricity generation in Japan.
      1. Alexander Galaktionov
        Alexander Galaktionov 5 January 2021 08: 11
        -4
        The cat Kuzya does not understand that on the ship, count the company, and if the ship is of 1 rank, then the composition is a battalion and this is all in a small area and not like a land-based distance between fighters of 10 or more meters It's like a company to cram in such a BMP 100 meters by 18 meters
        1. timokhin-aa
          5 January 2021 12: 31
          11
          Kuzya the cat does not understand anything at all, in principle. What you are writing about is a special case.
    7. IL38
      IL38 5 January 2021 18: 23
      0
      "Note, I did not offer this" (c)
    8. orcinus
      orcinus 5 January 2021 21: 52
      +1
      Concern, local time)
  • Charik
    Charik 5 January 2021 07: 27
    0
    The State Duma approved in the third, final reading the bill on the immunity of the former presidents of Russia and their families, follows from the database of the lower house of parliament.

    If it is adopted by the Federation Council and signed by the current head of state, the President of Russia after the expiration of his term of office will have immunity. He will not be able to be arrested, detained, searched, or brought to administrative or criminal liability. The same rules apply to family members of the former president, his living quarters, cars, luggage and documents, communications and correspondence.

    Only the Federation Council will be able to deprive the ex-president of this status on the basis of the State Duma's accusation of treason or other serious crime, confirmed by the Constitutional and Supreme Courts.

    and signed it already
    1. Catfish
      Catfish 5 January 2021 11: 00
      -1
      Only the Federation Council can deprive the ex-president of this status ...


      Not hinting at anything ... Do you know this guy?

      1. Kot_Kuzya
        Kot_Kuzya 5 January 2021 11: 20
        -1
        Are you one of those people who believe Oswald killed Kennedy? I feel sorry for you.
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 5 January 2021 11: 27
          0
          Kuzya, your regrets are on the drum for me, as well as your opinion. As for Oswald, his name has become a household name (at least for my generation), that's all.
          As a possible variant of the events of that time, flip through the book "The Sicilian Specialist", a story without claims to be documentary, but as an option, it is quite acceptable.
      2. Charik
        Charik 5 January 2021 17: 52
        0
        Apparently some lucky guy - I'm looking at lottery tickets in my hands - apparently I won a rifle laughing
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 5 January 2021 18: 41
          0
          Yeah, he won the ticket to the next world. laughing
      3. Boa kaa
        Boa kaa 5 January 2021 17: 57
        +3
        "WHAT ARE YOU HINING FOR, your royal face !?" (from) laughing
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 5 January 2021 18: 40
          +1
          Here's a hello from the terrarium, and immediately a face, well at least a royal. laughing
    2. timokhin-aa
      5 January 2021 12: 30
      11
      How do you imagine the opposite? Well, for example, the next president will finally deal with the United States by inciting a civil war there, in which, for example, 5 million Americans will die
      This will use:

      1. Money laundered and untraceable by anyone.
      2. Mercenaries
      3. Murders, sabotage and acts of sabotage against a state with which we are not officially at war.
      4. Illegal supplies of special equipment and weapons
      5. Organization of illegal departure of Russian citizens abroad, without customs

      And then what to do, going under the threat of prison all your life? The immunity of heads of state is a worldwide practice, due to the fact that in the morning you personally should not check whether your family is alive with weapons in hand, but drink coffee and surf the Internet.

      As a person who has seen a lot, I want to tell you that your confidence that you will not be killed in a dream, like coffee, are essentially unnatural phenomena, and in order for them to take place, and even every day, a bunch of people have to do a lot of unrealistically dangerous, and sometimes also very DIRTY work. Well, there, extrajudicial killings, torture, etc.

      The President of the Russian Federation, no matter how bad he may be, and no matter how you treat him, is also on the list of people who, if not doing this work, are responsible for it.

      So die your ardor.
      1. Boa kaa
        Boa kaa 5 January 2021 18: 01
        +2
        Quote: timokhin-aa
        So die your ardor.

        Alexander, my RESPECT to you! drinks
        The comment is beyond praise! good
        Just try not to miss the "b" in the future!
        AHA.
      2. Charik
        Charik 5 January 2021 18: 49
        -4
        there was a hope that this super agent would wash, but then it began She drowned - they are civilians - and all that - as it is not regrettable - but the commoners have long ceased to believe him - although by order of the authorities, in fear of losing the available benefits, they go to vote for him
      3. loki565
        loki565 6 January 2021 02: 08
        0
        You directly described the organization of the Maidan in Ukraine, but forgot the cookies))) And that politicians in the United States do not suffer from remorse.
      4. Revival
        Revival 6 January 2021 12: 25
        0
        According to your logic, the president may have immunity for "crimes" outside, but not for "internal" ones!
    3. unknown
      unknown 5 January 2021 17: 47
      -1
      There is a very good state film on this subject, "Absolute Power," with Clint Eastwood.
      About how the US president killed his mistress, and how his life ended.
  • pmkemcity
    pmkemcity 5 January 2021 07: 40
    +5
    Fleet heading for Tsushima.

    There is no fleet, and therefore there will be no Tsushima.
    1. Charik
      Charik 5 January 2021 07: 44
      10 th
      Instead of few ships, you can have a lot of airplanes, also good weight, fast and varied weapons
      1. pmkemcity
        pmkemcity 5 January 2021 07: 47
        +6
        Quote: Charik
        Instead of few ships, you can have a lot of airplanes, also good weight, fast and varied weapons

        Do you think that an airplane is cheaper than a boat? In addition, the airplane cannot yet hang for weeks in a threatened area.
        1. Charik
          Charik 5 January 2021 07: 53
          12 th
          so the surface waterman will not be able to hang for a very long time, and the airplane is on duty constantly at the airfield, maybe cheaper, I am not an expert in such business
          1. pmkemcity
            pmkemcity 5 January 2021 08: 13
            +1
            Quote: Charik
            maybe cheaper, I'm not an expert in such business

            They are there, and he is here! How much does the aerodrome infrastructure cost, kerosene, training of a pilot and technicians, a motor resource, finally ... In my time, Tajiks, not knowing Russian, served quite tolerably in the BC-5, TP on the wall and 100 m of cable - that's all the "infrastructure" "sediment" mixed with water after washing the export fuel oil tanks and mothers, as a kind word before the campaign, yes, and not any chocolates in the ration - "Komsomolsk peas" and "Kamchatka pea porridge" every day (floating base "Kamchatskiy Komsomolets")
            1. Charik
              Charik 5 January 2021 08: 19
              13 th
              It can be simpler - how much does the airplane cost and how much a ship, for example, a Su34 and a Corvette with efficient air defense, we don’t take service and we don’t take on airdromes and sea bases and people
              1. pmkemcity
                pmkemcity 5 January 2021 08: 24
                +4
                Quote: Charik
                It can be simpler - how much does the airplane cost and how much a ship, for example, a Su34 and a Corvette with efficient air defense, we don’t take service and we don’t take on airdromes and sea bases and people

                People come and go, the bases are decaying, the airframe's resource, the engine's life is just over 1000 hours ... and a lot of things, the weather, for example.
                1. Cyril G ...
                  Cyril G ... 7 January 2021 15: 04
                  -1
                  The service life of the serial Al-31F-M1 / P (Su-30sm / Su-34) is 2000 hours.
                  1. pmkemcity
                    pmkemcity 7 January 2021 16: 24
                    0
                    Quote: Cyril G ...
                    The service life of the serial Al-31F-M1 / P (Su-30sm / Su-34) is 2000 hours.

                    2000 hours is 83 days. This is for a steamer, say, from Vladivostok to the Persian Gulf to go there and back, and even then it happened for six months.
                    1. Cyril G ...
                      Cyril G ... 7 January 2021 16: 26
                      -1
                      The resource of the star diesel engine M-507 - 10000 hours
                      1. pmkemcity
                        pmkemcity 7 January 2021 16: 37
                        0
                        Quote: Cyril G ...
                        The resource of the star diesel engine M-507 - 10000 hours

                        Not the best example - https://spbdiesel.ru/uslugi/postavka-dizelnyh-dvigatelej/m507/
                        The resource before the first complete bulkhead is 3500 compartment, 6000 main gear.
                        Don't fire the office, we're drowning for the Fleet!
              2. Alexander Galaktionov
                Alexander Galaktionov 5 January 2021 08: 30
                -2
                Have you compared a ship to an airplane? laughing at least go over the weapons
              3. Cyril G ...
                Cyril G ... 7 January 2021 15: 03
                0
                Well, as if the MRK pr. 22800 is a link of the Su-34
          2. Alexander Galaktionov
            Alexander Galaktionov 5 January 2021 08: 17
            -3
            The ship can stay longer than the plane from several weeks to a month depends on the provisions of the ships of the 1st rank and the AP of the boat up to 3 months like
            1. pmkemcity
              pmkemcity 5 January 2021 08: 20
              +4
              Quote: Alexander Galaktionov
              The ship can stay longer than the plane from several weeks to a month depends on the provisions of the ships of the 1st rank and the AP of the boat up to 3 months like

              Rather, it depends on the wishes of the authorities. And water, fuel oil and pearl barley, can be delivered by Russian Post!
        2. Alexander Galaktionov
          Alexander Galaktionov 5 January 2021 08: 14
          -5
          Even a UAV cannot hang for more than 24 hours
          1. Charik
            Charik 5 January 2021 08: 24
            -6
            the funny thing is that they were going to do so much, but they did one and that one crooked, and now they have to finish the same amount of money and time, but it was possible to make one good ship and a dozen more planes for delivery, but this is not exactly and it is not necessary- otherwise the 'starving old women' are the legacy of the tsarist regime - they will swell from hunger
            1. pmkemcity
              pmkemcity 5 January 2021 08: 29
              +6
              Quote: Charik
              the funny thing is that they were going to do so much, but they did one and that one crooked, and now they have to finish the same amount of money and time, but it was possible to make one good ship and a dozen more planes for delivery, but this is not exactly and it is not necessary- otherwise the 'starving old women' are the legacy of the tsarist regime - they will swell from hunger

              Do you sincerely think that the Navy is bad and the Aviation is good? There are the same problems - fools and ... roads, that is, irradromes.
              1. Charik
                Charik 5 January 2021 18: 02
                -2
                no, I said to hand over the airplanes, since they cannot make a boat, but by the time of landing, the change will go into the pockets of hungry old women
              2. Cyril G ...
                Cyril G ... 7 January 2021 15: 07
                -1
                Quote: pmkemcity
                that the Navy is bad and the Aviation is good?


                Well, the result is quite visible who is who. The situation with the Navy is many times worse in our Armed Forces.
                And of course there are jambs. Where without them.
                1. pmkemcity
                  pmkemcity 7 January 2021 16: 31
                  0
                  Quote: Cyril G ...
                  The situation with the Navy is many times worse in our Armed Forces.

                  Have you noticed that "everything is bad" only in the Main Bases, where the fleet is standing in front of the amazed public? But for example, in Kamchatka, in Kola - everything is fine, because no one sees the whole abyss of problems. Only direct communication, for example with an officer of the Yurga brigade, can give an objective picture of what is happening, because it is a hundred kilometers from both Kemerovo and Novosibirsk. And where are the airfields? On the Red Square? No, on Tiksi!
                  1. Cyril G ...
                    Cyril G ... 7 January 2021 16: 33
                    -1
                    I served in Kamchatka, and left relatively recently, do you want to say that everything is eeeh well there now ?!
                    1. pmkemcity
                      pmkemcity 7 January 2021 16: 46
                      0
                      Quote: Cyril G ...
                      I served in Kamchatka, and left relatively recently, do you want to say that everything is eeeh well there now ?!

                      I have been to Kamchatka the same, and apart from green water and the same color of snot in August, there is nothing to remember. But I have a bunch of schoolmates who are from Kamchatka, or the service threw them there, and two of the current "drinking buddies", though not "naval" ones, have spent more than one season in geological parties. With close communication, there is often a desire to be there again, already with friends, to remember youth, look at everything, and ... say - the first impression is the most correct!
                      And what I said is just an allegory.
                      1. FIN
                        FIN 12 January 2021 14: 24
                        0
                        Listen to him more. He was not in Kamchatka.
                        I can announce when I arrived in Krasnodar Territory, the address of residence in Temryuk, registration, address, phone number, place of work.
                        This is an ordinary talker. I managed to shit on Tsushima and Courage and Live J.
                        Kamchatka didn't have it !!!
                      2. pmkemcity
                        pmkemcity 12 January 2021 17: 37
                        0
                        Quote: FIN
                        This is an ordinary talker.

                      3. The comment was deleted.
                      4. pmkemcity
                        pmkemcity 13 January 2021 05: 23
                        0
                        In short - one word Kirill Ge ???
                      5. The comment was deleted.
                      6. pmkemcity
                        pmkemcity 13 January 2021 09: 34
                        0
                        So I ask, what is it? Self-designation cannot be an insult. I'll follow Kirill until I'm ready to give independent assessments.
                      7. FIN
                        FIN 13 January 2021 11: 33
                        0
                        I have picked a dozen of pseudo specialists. Begins to be clever-Question. School, profile, place of service, VUS. Deflated immediately.
                        Well, the photos are official. I threw mine in stories-stories well, with a couple of hundred for sure. It can't be that people. did not have official (school) photos.
                        And little things ...
                        Insults begin and jump off the topic)))


                      8. pmkemcity
                        pmkemcity 13 January 2021 11: 40
                        0
                        I hope you are a nobleman?
                      9. FIN
                        FIN 13 January 2021 11: 47
                        0
                        Duc))) ......
                      10. pmkemcity
                        pmkemcity 13 January 2021 11: 51
                        0
                        In the words of the same Ostap - because, because ...
                      11. FIN
                        FIN 13 January 2021 11: 56
                        0
                        I also dragged it here. Here you can put the video.
                        In the morning I piled, pinned Butkovsky ...
                        https://valcat-8.livejournal.com/
                      12. pmkemcity
                        pmkemcity 13 January 2021 12: 27
                        0
                        I wanted to wish you a Happy New Year, but changed your mind. Happy Russian Press Day!
  • Vladimir1155
    Vladimir1155 5 January 2021 10: 59
    -1
    Quote: pmkemcity
    can hang for weeks in a threatened area.

    why should he hang? will arrive when necessary, 3a the cost of one small, weakly armed warship "The cost of the head corvette 20386" Daring ", according to the contract of the RF Ministry of Defense and" Severnaya Verf ", amounted to about 29 billion rubles", and the cost of a modern combat aircraft "New equipment arrives, its cost the biggest one - more than one billion rubles each plane costs: Su-30, Su-35, Su-34 ", - said Bondarev on the air of the TV channel" Russia-24 ". that is, instead of one slow-moving corvette, we get three dozen combat aircraft ..... comments are unnecessary.
    1. timokhin-aa
      5 January 2021 12: 21
      +8
      Ships and planes don't replace each other, Vladimir.
      1. Vladimir1155
        Vladimir1155 5 January 2021 17: 05
        +1
        yes they do not replace, but without sea (strike and PLO) coastal aviation, surface ships are simply useless
      2. Charik
        Charik 5 January 2021 19: 05
        -1
        in addition to a good, well-organized Corvette - able to detect submarines and an air threat - and having the ability to resist these threats for a short time, screw up with 10 aircraft ready to take off on a signal from a ship and with bombs and missiles - this seems to be as good
        1. Vladimir1155
          Vladimir1155 6 January 2021 00: 13
          -1
          that's exactly how it should be!
      3. loki565
        loki565 6 January 2021 02: 22
        0
        Perhaps the world fleet will soon follow the path of UAV development and a swarm of underwater drones will nightmare surface ships and so on.
      4. Cyril G ...
        Cyril G ... 7 January 2021 16: 39
        -1
        Here is the question, aircraft are at least to some extent capable of compensating for a catastrophe with surface forces, and moreover, they are capable of an inter-theater maneuver in ten hours in order to sharply increase forces from a threatened direction.
        What had to be done - and so in the know. The only thing that I would include in the plan is a series of 20 RSA pr.10410 with 2x4 Uranus, in order to include them in the OVR brigades. As an option.
    2. Charik
      Charik 5 January 2021 18: 06
      -2
      so I'm talking about, too, if they can't 5 ships, make one but according to feng shui and a dozen Su3 .. and then they promise from three boxes, and the exhaust is ZERO, and the money is gone and is still required
  • IL38
    IL38 5 January 2021 16: 12
    0
    Collected a little from memory and surveys of the local population. This is approximately until 1995.
    https://valcat-8.livejournal.com/38039.html
    "About sea service, about friendship ... small"
  • faiver
    faiver 5 January 2021 08: 26
    +2
    We have neither the one nor the other, we build several planes a year, the only place where we seem to be doing well is riveted combat helicopters in 10 years ...
    1. Charik
      Charik 5 January 2021 08: 36
      -8
      but they closed the contract for 34e, but that was also not done in a year
      1. faiver
        faiver 5 January 2021 08: 39
        -2
        just about, they are riveted by a teaspoon per hour ...
      2. faiver
        faiver 5 January 2021 08: 54
        +4
        however, I lied, the SU-34 riveted 120pcs. - already not bad ...
        1. frog
          frog 5 January 2021 12: 55
          0
          Are you sure that everything is fine with them? Based on the articles under discussion, if you do not assume that the fleet is an accumulation of negative, there are also possible ... nuances. At first there was a lot of information about the various ... ... features of this airplane ...
          1. faiver
            faiver 5 January 2021 13: 24
            +2
            I'm not sure, just like I'm not sure that everything is fine with us in the ground forces ... hi
            1. frog
              frog 5 January 2021 13: 32
              -3
              Oh well ..... If there are a couple more ... initiators, a la the author of this article with .... a colleague)))) ..... It will be quite sad here .....
            2. Cyril G ...
              Cyril G ... 8 January 2021 11: 48
              -1
              On the other hand, who said that our enemies are doing great?
        2. Charik
          Charik 5 January 2021 18: 12
          -3
          so for how many years, but at least it does not need to be remodeled like a ship, where, according to the author of the article, even though the entire mast is cut
    2. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... 7 January 2021 15: 09
      0
      Over 10 years, about 450 combat aircraft were delivered (multi-role fighter / front-line bomber) ...
  • Aag
    Aag 5 January 2021 14: 42
    +2
    Quote: Charik
    Instead of few ships, you can have a lot of airplanes, also good weight, fast and varied weapons

    The Author has written about this ...
    Only not "instead", but in interaction ...
  • Charik
    Charik 5 January 2021 08: 38
    -9
    damn - he doesn't have time to put a minus - maybe she or they
    1. faiver
      faiver 5 January 2021 08: 46
      -2
      damn - he doesn't have time to put a minus
      - who? to whom? I have already been thrown laughing
  • Rurikovich
    Rurikovich 5 January 2021 08: 49
    18
    Plus undoubted good
    If under the Union all sorts of fraud were still compensated by the size of the funds poured into the defense industry and the desire to be different, and some backwardness in technology was leveled out to a certain extent, which made it possible to form more connections that were less adequate for actions in the ocean, but now it’s a bit of a mess! Babos are sawing, eyewash is flourishing and nothing is compensated for. A connection at the level of an ancient BOD, a tanker and, of course, a tugboat is a "power" already promoted in the media request ... Moreover, the budget gap should be at least compensated for by quality. But alas ...
    Bravo, Maxim Klimov! The problem needs to be raised and voiced, so that later the snot cannot be wiped off with a sleeve, such as "it turned out that way" .... And it's also our happiness that even though the missiles did not rot and the brains were enough to modernize at least something that still stagnates "partners" be impudent, otherwise there would have been a second Port Arthur in the ports long ago ...
  • bar
    bar 5 January 2021 09: 42
    +8
    There are no words ... The fish rots from the head, and the Navy from the naval leadership, which is completely rotten. And it is extremely difficult to clean up this heap of dirt, and with the hands of the naval officers themselves, it is generally impossible. We are waiting for the next "Admiral Stouretkin", who will ruin all this blat-hut nafig, so that later on its ruins to build something sane. sad
  • steelmaker
    steelmaker 5 January 2021 10: 20
    +4
    The article is very correct. But in the current economic conditions, no one will do anything! Consider an example from the article. We need about 200 minesweepers. We need money not only to build them, we need to train the crews, pay them salaries, provide them with housing, etc. And our government takes the latter away from pensioners, and Nabiulin constantly sends "babos" to the USA. And you say that ships are needed, exercises, firing. This will not happen! While Putin rules !!
    1. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa 5 January 2021 18: 11
      +2
      Quote: steel maker
      We need about 200 minesweepers.

      You may need 200, but 48 is enough for the Navy. At most 60, taking into account the Northern Fleet and Pacific Fleet with a developed (development) basing system. yes
  • Vladimir1155
    Vladimir1155 5 January 2021 10: 48
    +5
    thanks to uv Maxim Klimov for civil position, everything is written correctly, I saw it myself, but you can't give up on nuclear submarines, you need to give up surface ships first of all from UDK, in favor of aviation and submarines, modern minesweepers are needed and a lot ... not a single identical ship was handed over in a year, all one by one and why such a variety, all this is still to be exploited later. Stalin is not on them
    1. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa 5 January 2021 18: 14
      +4
      Quote: vladimir1155
      it is necessary to give up surface ships, first of all, from the UDK, in favor of aviation and submarines, modern minesweepers are needed and a lot ...

      Vladimir, you don't need to give up anything. It is necessary to build a modern BALANCED fleet. In which there should be a place for both the aircraft carrier and the raid TSC ...
      All this is called the construction of the RF Armed Forces, state construction by and large!
      1. Vladimir1155
        Vladimir1155 6 January 2021 00: 15
        0
        Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
        A BALANCED fleet.

        that's right, only the aircraft carrier doesn't fit in there
        1. Boa kaa
          Boa kaa 6 January 2021 11: 36
          0
          Quote: vladimir1155
          only the aircraft carrier doesn't fit in there

          It doesn’t fit in YET. And in 2030 it will be the very thing. Trust my experience: there is nothing to do in the DMZ without an umbrella. From the word GENERAL!
          1. Vladimir1155
            Vladimir1155 6 January 2021 12: 48
            -1
            Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
            there is nothing to do in the DMZ. From the word GENERAL!

            it is in the DMZ that Rossi's surface ships have nothing to do, and there is no need, And by 2030 it will be the same as now, only there will be fewer ships, that's all, 1135, 1155, 1164 and all Soviet legacy except for a pair of 1144 will go to scrap ...
            1. Boa kaa
              Boa kaa 6 January 2021 15: 46
              0
              Quote: vladimir1155
              Rossi's surface ships have nothing to do in the DMZ

              5 OPESK in the Mediterranean. 30 BrNK SF off the coast of Angola.
              Quote: vladimir1155
              only there will be fewer ships, that's all,

              you apparently canceled the shipbuilding program ... It happens.
              1. Vladimir1155
                Vladimir1155 6 January 2021 18: 10
                +1
                what did Angola give us ?, and what did the Mediterranean Sea give? .....
                Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
                shipbuilding program

                did you see it, harass it, turn it on? in 10 years there will be 5 fr, 8 crv,
                10 minesweepers .... we will write off 9 1155, 1 1135, 3 1168
  • Eldorado
    Eldorado 5 January 2021 11: 01
    0
    I would like to note the successes of this year, which the Author kept silent about:
    1) "Peter the Great" was successfully shot by "Granite";
    2) "Admiral Nakhimov" was launched, work on its repair and modernization is underway;
    3) It seems like the "Mrskva" was repaired, but it does not depart from the pier crying;
    4) the modernized "Marshal Shaposhnikov" passes the ZHI;
    5) A new oceanographer "Akademik Aleksandrov" was put into operation;
    6) modernized MRK "Smerch" (16 "Uranov" instead of 6 "Malachites");
    8) the head torpedoes of project 1388N3T were launched;
    9) The modernized K-157 Vepr returned to service;
    10) The Black Sea Fleet "Varshavyanka" is undergoing scheduled repairs;
    11) Work is underway at Alrosa. There is a chance she will be returned to the fleet;
    12) There is a chance that the B-448 Tambov will be returned to the fleet after the repair;
    13) Launched the modernized K-328 "Leopard".
    1. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... 5 January 2021 12: 18
      +9
      Quote: El Dorado
      the modernized Marshal Shaposhnikov ZHI is underway;

      Modern is just obscene ..
      All that I think about that lewdness I wrote in the comments to the relevant articles.
      modernized MRK "Smerch" (16 "Uranov" instead of 6 "Malachites");


      Interestingly, our so-called admirals are able to explain why, instead of a long and tediously carried out program for the construction of little-use MRK pr. 21631 and 22800, they did not modernize the existing MRK pr. 12341 in the late-mid-zero - early tenths, and Nakat was quickly written off and forgotten ... ...


      Modern Tornado was 30 years late.

      And last year Voronezh and Kharlamov were written off. Yes...
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 5 January 2021 18: 10
        -3
        Probably because these ships are already outdated rubbish on the equipment of which they no longer produce.
        1. Cyril G ...
          Cyril G ... 5 January 2021 19: 07
          +1
          Excuse me for my French verbiage. MRK pr.12341 continue to serve ... 10 (ten!) Units in the ranks, the oldest is already 41! year with a long ago, in principle, an ineffective main caliber and missiles that have reached the end of their service life. And since we are dealing with seams with the crew, the latter will be written off no earlier than in 5-7 years. And if they had done it humanly, it would have been a different conversation .... And no need to say that I am so smart now. I knew this as a senior lieutenant 22 years ago.
      2. Escobar
        Escobar 5 January 2021 20: 39
        0
        Well, 20800 and even with air defense missile systems is one of the few brought to mind projects of the fleet
        1. Cyril G ...
          Cyril G ... 5 January 2021 20: 44
          +2
          In general, yes, but only narrow specialization ruins everything. By the way, if he was in a pair in the same building, with the same RES and practically the same weapons, the MPK would have been better. And the best option, in my opinion, is Project 22800 + Minotavr SJC and 2 PU PTZ Packet-NK.
          The price will rise, yes, and the displacement is also 200-250 tons.
          1. Vladimir1155
            Vladimir1155 6 January 2021 00: 19
            -2
            Quote: Cyril G ...
            The price will rise, yes, and the displacement is also 200-250 tons.

            MPK is needed but .... 200-250 tons will not be able to pass through the GDP, it is better to have a pair in two identical buildings MPK + MRK
      3. Volder
        Volder 6 January 2021 21: 35
        -4
        Quote: Cyril G ...
        Modern is simply obscene ... I wrote everything I think about that indecency in the comments to the relevant articles.
        Returned to service, "Marshal Shaposhnikov" now surpasses US destroyers of the "Arleigh Burke" type in anti-ship and anti-submarine strike capabilities.
        1. Cyril G ...
          Cyril G ... 6 January 2021 22: 27
          +2
          Are you serious?
          Well, let's dispel your misconceptions.
          Firstly, in regards to Uranus. Half of the Berks have Harpoons, the second half not. as unnecessary.
          Secondly, the number of cells Mk-41 = 96, we have exactly 16 UKSK.
          In the third PLUR they also have a place to be.
          But with torpedoes, our ships on the BS go badly with the ancient SET-65 and the senseless 53-65K. BC = 8 units. But the Americans have 2x3 324 mm TA and for them and the helicopter ammunition of 40-50 torpedoes

          Ship torpedo cellar
          It was not destiny to change 533 mm PTA to PU PTZ Package, for which reason they changed the AK-100 to the A-190. This is nonsense!
          The Polynomial does not include GPBA.
          The SAM is also a matter of seams. The Ukrainian Il-76 will arrive, it will circle at an altitude of 10 kilometers and sprinkle us with a vile FAB-50 wassat
          1. Volder
            Volder 7 January 2021 01: 49
            -6
            Quote: Cyril G ...
            Are you serious?
            I urge you to be attentive. I quite seriously can repeat once again, especially for you, so be it: the frigate "Marshal Shaposhnikov" is now superior in anti-ship and anti-submarine strike capabilities of US destroyers of the "Arleigh Burke" type. And now I will confirm with arguments:
            1. On board the Burke destroyer there are 8 outdated Harpoon anti-ship missiles, and on our upgraded BOD there are 16 Caliber anti-ship missiles, which are 2 times more powerful than the Harpoons! At the moment, US ships have only "Harpoons" for anti-ship missions, and all other anti-ship missiles for surface ships have either already been removed from service, or are being created (tested, modernized) and not adopted for service.
            2. The Kh-35U "Uran" anti-ship missile has a launch range of 260 km. This is the normal range for this class of ships. In terms of characteristics, it is not inferior to sea-based anti-ship missiles of other countries. There are 8 of them on the former BOD.
            3. PLUR RUR-5 ASROC with a torpedo of the 1960s and a range of up to 9 km is much weaker in terms of performance in comparison with our Kalibr-NK missile torpedoes loaded into the UKSK launcher. In the Soviet and Russian navies, the stake is traditionally placed not on torpedoes, but on missile-torpedoes, because they are more effective (faster). Add here two RBU-6000 rocket launchers.
            4. Anti-submarine helicopters. US destroyers have a helicopter range of 185 km with two torpedoes on board. Our BOD has 200 km with one torpedo or missile-torpedo, or with eight bombs. Basically, the difference is small.
            So, considering points 1-4, I dispelled your misconception?
            why did they change the AK-100 to the A-190. It's nonsense!
            To reduce weight on the bow of the ship and align the center of gravity.
            With the air defense system, it is also a matter of seams.
            The Kinzhal air defense system is designed exclusively for shooting down missiles and guided bombs from the seeker. It is not intended for shooting down planes.
            1. Cyril G ...
              Cyril G ... 7 January 2021 12: 00
              +4
              Quote: Volder
              I can seriously say it again, especially for you,


              Well, once you continue to rest your horn on the ground, I will list your personal erroneous errors ...
              2. The Kh-35U "Uran" anti-ship missile has a launch range of 260 km. This is the normal range for this class of ships. In terms of characteristics, it is not inferior to sea-based anti-ship missiles of other countries. There are 8 of them on the former BOD.


              Firstly, who told you that there is W? Secondly, most of the Berks have a 280 km Harpoon-mod.

              Quote: Volder
              3. PLUR RUR-5 ASROC with a torpedo of the 1960s and a range of up to 9 km is much weaker in terms of performance in comparison with our Kalibr-NK missile torpedoes loaded into the UKSK launcher.


              Congratulations to the lie - there is first of all the PLUR ASROK RUM-139VL, and it flies 28 km, https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/RUM-139_VL-Asroc, and even entered service in 1996.

              So, considering points 1-4, I dispelled your misconception?

              No piled up a bunch of lies.

              In the Soviet and Russian navies, the emphasis is traditionally placed not on torpedoes,

              These are the pathetic excuses of the cheated "admirals" of the Russian
              Well, that is, even you agree that we have a problem with torpedoes, it's funny. I showed a torpedo cellar for whom? But they can both charge the device and drop it from a helicopter ...

              To reduce weight on the bow of the ship and align the center of gravity.

              Are you seriously trying to justify cutting the dough?

              Let's calculate the KT-100 + 85RU, the total weight is about 36-40 tons, the AK-100 with ammunition load = 54-55 tons. Total removed from 90 to 100 tons. What was delivered in return - 14x2 tons of UKSK = 28 tons + 2 tons of PU KT-184 + 32 tons of Caliber rocket (2 tons each) + 5 tons of Uranium. Total 67 tons. Conclusion - there was no point in removing the AK-100 bow and replacing it with the A-190 for "there was no nose relief"

              4. Anti-submarine helicopters. US destroyers have a helicopter range of 185 km with two torpedoes on board. Our BOD has 200 km with one torpedo or missile-torpedo, or with eight bombs. Basically, the difference is small.


              Considering that it is precisely as an anti-submarine Ka-27 that it is an extremely bad decision, that in the serial configuration and even more so in M.

              1. On board the Burke destroyer there are 8 outdated Harpoon anti-ship missiles, and on our upgraded BOD there are 16 Caliber anti-ship missiles, which are 2 times more powerful than the Harpoons!

              Firstly, the SM-6 missiles can be used to attack a sea target at a maximum range of lj 450 km. Secondly, LRASM IS ALREADY RELEASED under a hundred units. I'm not sure that we have the same 3M54 ...

              Add here two RBU-6000 rocket launchers.


              The absence of the Package-NK is a serious miscalculation.
              1. Volder
                Volder 7 January 2021 14: 13
                -4
                Quote: Cyril G ...
                Firstly, who told you that there is W? Secondly, most of the Berks have a 280 km Harpoon-mod.
                Big is what part? Or maybe less? Who told you that the 280 km Harpoon are not single missiles?
                firstly there is PLUR ASROK RUM-139VL, and it flies 28 km
                So what? Our PLUR from UKSK flies 50 km.
                SAM SM-6 can be used to attack sea targets at a maximum range of 450 km.
                The use of these missiles is limited because at the enemy ship, in order to penetrate its air defense system, you need to fire several missiles. That is, the destroyer's air defense will become poorer by several missiles. In addition, the range of our "Caliber" is also about 500 km, and the P-800 "Onyx" - up to 600 km. I think that given the falsely overestimated characteristics of the SM-6 and the traditionally underestimated performance characteristics of our missiles, Russian frigates will win the anti-ship duel.
                LRASM ALREADY RELEASED under a hundred units.
                LRASMs were produced for the Air Force and carrier-based aircraft, but has not yet been adopted for the Mk 41 UVP. That is, this missile is not yet on board the destroyers. By the way, we do not have a Zircon on board the frigate either.
                The absence of the Package-NK is a serious miscalculation.
                Well, what is this miscalculation? I'll explain to you once again: priority is given to missile-torpedoes, tk. they are more efficient. The Americans, however, relied on torpedoes. That's the whole difference.
                These are the pathetic excuses of the cheated "admirals" of the Russian
                No, this is a competent prioritization. The Americans have given priority to the wrong one, so they are inferior to us in anti-submarine weapons.
                No piled up a bunch of lies.
                In fact, my words are absolutely true about the superiority of "Admiral Shaposhnikov" over "Arleigh Burke" in anti-ship and anti-submarine strike capabilities.
                I showed a torpedo cellar for whom? But they can both charge the device and drop it from a helicopter ...
                You probably think that our frigates / corvettes / destroyers for PLO helicopters do not have a stock of torpedoes and bombs. After all, there are no photos of the cellar, which means there is no stock. Aren't you funny yourself?
                there was no point in removing the AK-100 bow and replacing it with the A-190 for "there was no nose relief"
                I said about aligning the center of gravity. In addition, the AK-100 is purely a cannon, while the A-190 is a universal gun mount with an increased rate of fire. So there was a point in the replacement.
                Considering that it is precisely as an anti-submarine Ka-27 that it is an extremely bad decision, that in the serial configuration and even more so in M.
                Oh, but the Americans have a helicopter for PLO - this is just the perfect solution! Well, just super duper. Yeah :)
                1. Cyril G ...
                  Cyril G ... 7 January 2021 14: 51
                  0
                  Quote: Volder
                  In addition, the AK-100 is purely a cannon, while the A-190 is a universal gun mount with an increased rate of fire. So there was a point in the replacement.

                  Of course not - it just drank some dough, and you just fundamentally do not understand what you say AK-100 is not purely a cannon, it’s silly to say so, it’s the same universal system, and the rate of fire of its combat A-190 is not inferior in reality.
                  Quote: Volder
                  Oh, but the Americans have a helicopter for PLO - this is just the perfect solution! Well, just super duper. Yeah :)

                  Yes, because it is better, moreover, all American hydroacoustics work in compatible ranges, which provides tactical flexibility.
                  Quote: Volder
                  You probably think that our frigates / corvettes / destroyers for PLO helicopters do not have a stock of torpedoes and bombs. After all, there are no photos of the cellar, which means there is no stock. Aren't you funny yourself?

                  Again, don't you understand from the principle? There is a small cellar several times smaller. But the main thing is that one and the same MK46 is used both from a helicopter and from a ship's TA.
                  Quote: Volder
                  my words are absolutely correct about the superiority of "Admiral Shaposhnikov" over "Arleigh Burke" in anti-ship and anti-submarine strike capabilities.

                  Don't you know how to read yet? Anti-submarine capabilities are not much different from zero.
                  Quote: Volder
                  No, this is a competent prioritization.

                  No, you just do not want to understand at what point we are with VeMeF. Once again, Shaposhnikov, with a torpedo salvo on him, has no chance without a package, from a word at all.
                  Quote: Volder
                  Our PLUR from UKSK flies 50 km.

                  At the same time, the Ka-27 is useless, and the Polynomial in ocean conditions is good if it stretches 35-40 km.
                  Well, what's the point?

                  Quote: Volder
                  I think that taking into account the falsely overestimated characteristics of the SM-6 and the traditionally underestimated performance characteristics of our missiles, Russian frigates will win the anti-ship duel.

                  Are you a hooray patriot. You must always count on the worst case. And we will not be able to penetrate Aegis with an extremely limited salvo. There you need at least 24 anti-ship missiles. And SM-6 will work for us.
                  Quote: Volder
                  Who told you that the 280 km Harpoon are not single missiles?

                  Well, with the release from the end of the 80s approximately, I am extremely surprised to hear you on this topic. But we have a problem with that, we have a problem with the fleet.
                  1. Volder
                    Volder 7 January 2021 16: 27
                    -3
                    Quote: Cyril G ...
                    The AK-100 is not just a cannon, it is the same universal system, and its rate of fire is not inferior in reality to the combat A-190.
                    As an anti-aircraft system, the AK-100 is noticeably inferior to the A-190 and is unlikely to be used in real combat conditions. The point is the lower rate of fire (by 25%) and less reach of the target in height. Well, by the angle of the vertical guidance, also compare which of them takes the steeper. In general, the A-190 is a more efficient gun mount. Would the designers begin to develop a new gun if the old Soviet one suited everyone? With any new development, performance characteristics should improve - this is the law!
                    But the main thing is that the same MK46 is used both from the helicopter and from the ship's TA.
                    I don't see a combat advantage here. It's just more comfortable for the crew and from the point of view of unification.
                    Shaposhnikov, with a torpedo salvo on it, has no chances without a package, from the word at all.
                    The same can be said about the western destroyers. Are you sure they will survive the Caliber missile salvo? I personally don't think so. While the torpedoes are going to the "Shaposhnikov", he will have time to release rocket-torpedoes, which will reach the enemy submarine before the "Shaposhnikov" is hit.
                    A polynomial in ocean conditions is good if it stretches 35-40 km. What's the point?
                    The "Polynom" has the maximum possible detection range of submarines (under normal hydrological conditions) - 40-50 km. The hydroacoustics of US surface ships also work no further than this distance. Therefore, I did not compare the hydroacoustics of the BOD and the Burke.
                    Anti-submarine capabilities are not much different from zero.
                    Your disbelief in the effectiveness of the Kalibr-NK missile-torpedoes is your personal psychological problem, which has nothing to do with the frigate.
                    And we will not be able to penetrate Aegis with an extremely limited salvo. They need at least 24 anti-ship missiles.
                    You are confusing a destroyer with an aircraft carrier. 20-24 missiles are required for an aircraft carrier, and much less for a destroyer. "Aegis" makes its way with about four or five "Calibers" (in the calculation that one of them will reach) due to active maneuvering and low flight over the water. “Onyxes” break through “Aegis” at the expense of maneuvers and speed. "Zircons" are guaranteed to break through due to maneuvers and hypersound (a couple of missiles are enough for the eyes). And we are not talking about drowning. We are talking about incapacitation so that the ship cannot perform a combat mission.
                    But we have a problem with that.
                    We have no problems with the production and saturation of the fleet of the Kh-35U "Uran" anti-ship missiles, do not invent it.
                    1. Fizik M
                      Fizik M 15 January 2021 21: 45
                      -1
                      Quote: Volder
                      Problems with the release and saturation of the X-35 anti-ship missiles fleetУ We do not have "Uranus", do not invent it.

                      Yeah
                      only "for some reason" "Sharp-witted" and "Undaunted" went without anti-ship missiles
                      and a letter У YOU clearly says that YOU are taking something strong
                      Quote: Volder
                      20-24 missiles are required for an aircraft carrier, and much less for a destroyer. "Aegis" makes its way with about four to five "Gauges"

                      fool
                      YOU "counted" it wassat ? with a blunt pencil on pipifax on a pot?
                      Quote: Volder
                      The hydroacoustics of US surface ships also work no further than this distance.

                      where did they dig in it?
                      Quote: Volder
                      The "Polynom" has the maximum possible detection range of submarines (under normal hydrological conditions) - 40-50 km

                      have you heard anything about the zonal structure of the acoustic field?
                2. Fizik M
                  Fizik M 15 January 2021 21: 48
                  -1
                  Quote: Volder
                  The Americans have given priority to the wrong one, so they are inferior to us in anti-submarine weapons.

                  fool
                  Eat
                3. Fizik M
                  Fizik M 15 January 2021 21: 54
                  -1
                  Quote: Volder
                  Oh, but the Americans have a helicopter for PLO - this is just the perfect solution! Well, just super duper. Yeah :)

                  yes, modification R 60ki is a specific popets for our submarines
                4. Fizik M
                  Fizik M 15 January 2021 21: 59
                  -1
                  Quote: Volder
                  You probably think that our frigates / corvettes / destroyers for PLO helicopters do not have a stock of torpedoes. After all, there are no photos of the cellar, which means there is no stock. Aren't you funny yourself?

                  Do not smack nonsense, it hurts
                  torpedo cellar NO (for 53cm)
                  Quote: Volder
                  I'll explain it to you again: priority is given to missile-torpedoes, tk. they are more efficient. The Americans, however, relied on torpedoes. That's the whole difference.

                  YOUR explanation is too shallow
                  About Asrok VLA google
                  Quote: Volder
                  Who told you that the 280 km Harpoon are not single missiles?

                  their purchasing contacts
                  MASS
                  unlike 35U
            2. Fizik M
              Fizik M 15 January 2021 22: 09
              -1
              Quote: Volder
              On board the Burke destroyer there are 8 outdated Harpoon anti-ship missiles, and on our modernized BOD there are 16 Caliber anti-ship missiles, which are 2 times more powerful than the Harpoons!

              how dashingly YOU minus 91 and 12 cars! DO YOU also play cards?
              Or is it that you don't play because you are afraid to "meet" the candelabrum?
              by the way, the Earth is round, and the anti-ship missile system needs a control center, however, for YOU this is already prohibitive
              Quote: Volder
              The Kh-35U "Uran" anti-ship missile has a launch range of 260 km.

              and why did YOU decide that there is U?
              Quote: Volder
              PLUR RUR-5 ASROC with 1960s torpedo

              LIE
              Quote: Volder
              In the Soviet and Russian navies, the stake is traditionally placed not on torpedoes, but on missile-torpedoes, because they are more effective (faster)

              YOU are in this thread at the level of a duck in the bathroom
              Quote: Volder
              Anti-submarine helicopters. US destroyers have a combat radius of helicopters of 185 km with two torpedoes on board. Our BOD has 200 km with one torpedo or missile-torpedo, or with eight bombs. Basically, the difference is small.
              So, considering points 1-4, I dispelled your misconception?

              Quote: Volder
              To reduce weight on the bow of the ship and align the center of gravity.

              just put a smile fool
        2. Fizik M
          Fizik M 15 January 2021 22: 11
          -1
          Quote: Volder
          Returned to service, "Marshal Shaposhnikov" now surpasses US destroyers of the "Arleigh Burke" type in anti-ship and anti-submarine strike capabilities.

          fool
          DON'T SHOOT BAD - IT HURTS
    2. timokhin-aa
      5 January 2021 12: 20
      18
      Of all this news, really and without discounts, only the 13th is good and significant at the same time.

      For all the rest there are "reservations".
      For example, a clause on "Shaposhnikov" - https://topwar.ru/173385-nepolnocennaja-modernizacija-marshala-shaposhnikova.html
      On all counts, there are the same, except for the torpedo, which, of course, is needed, but to pass it off as an over-achievement is some kind of shame.
      1. Eldorado
        Eldorado 5 January 2021 13: 19
        0
        Yes, for all the rest of the reservation. But given the shortage of ships and submarines, even this news is very good.
        The launch of a NEW torpedo launcher, taking into account how the torpedo firing is conducted, is positive news.
      2. Fizik M
        Fizik M 15 January 2021 21: 37
        -1
        Quote: timokhin-aa
        except for the torpedo, which, of course, is needed

        THIS IS NOT NECESSARY
    3. Charik
      Charik 5 January 2021 18: 26
      -7
      1) is it really a success, they will shoot back with a 40-year-old rocket, of which on Peter 20, and according to some sources, he did not shoot badly at Kursk with the same Granite 2) if only some crane does not break him, it will be a miracle that he will enter service 3 ) GlavOlen of Moscow - not a penny helped in the repair and modernization of Moscow - everything is at war with the pandemic - Small missile ships of project 1234 "Ovod" - by NATO classification - Nanuchka class corvette - a series of Soviet small missile ships (MRK) of the 3rd rank built at the shipyards of the USSR from 1967-1992, my years are my wealth, Alrosa-was founded on May 17, 1988 -https: //vk.com/video-140927803_456259055
    4. A_Lex
      A_Lex 5 January 2021 20: 30
      +1
      I would like to note the successes of this year, which the Author kept silent about:


      In the context of the topic called "military shipbuilding", success is the fact that a new combat-ready ship that meets modern requirements has entered the fleet.

      You have listed 12 points, of which:
      10 are categorized as "repair / modernization"
      2 relate to the construction of support vessels, which are not warships

      Accordingly, none of these points should have been mentioned in this article. Therefore, your manipulation about what the author allegedly "kept silent" by.
  • Escobar
    Escobar 5 January 2021 11: 01
    +5
    We can only rejoice for those who are not destined to serve in the navy, who will not have to take out all the miscalculations of the command in the event of a combat situation
  • anclevalico
    anclevalico 5 January 2021 11: 38
    +5
    Just right to hang on the yard. The people plow like horses on the budget, which these Herods simply spray to zero.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • iouris
    iouris 5 January 2021 11: 46
    +9
    Tsushima took place much earlier than 1991. And Port Arthur.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Dmitry V.
    Dmitry V. 5 January 2021 13: 16
    +7
    Thanks for the link to Michael Abrasheff's book This is Your Ship.
    An interesting book - a look at "their fleet".

    I agree with the author: there is a parade-parish stagnation in the fleet as a whole.
  • tralflot1832
    tralflot1832 5 January 2021 13: 37
    0
    Looked at Google online. Severomorsk 3 cleaned. Everything is in place, clean. Airplanes in snow capanirs. Two dryers flew away, but promised to return. Traces remained in the snow before departure. Kuznetsov's aircraft carrier group is based there.
    1. voronin
      voronin 5 January 2021 13: 42
      13
      And see Migushi? Photos about them. After all, it's a pity if you really don't look after.
      1. tralflot1832
        tralflot1832 5 January 2021 13: 53
        -1
        15 counted, cleaned. Even now for takeoff. Question do they relate to the ship group?
        1. voronin
          voronin 5 January 2021 13: 57
          14
          Quote: tralflot1832
          15 counted, cleaned. Even now for takeoff. Question do they relate to the ship group?

          Thank you hi Most likely shipbuildings, I don't remember the 29s there, though I haven't been there since the 90s
          1. tralflot1832
            tralflot1832 5 January 2021 14: 02
            +1
            Until 2007, near Severomorsk 3, to the south. Near the lakes, across the dam, I had a mushroom spot. The parking lot is visible from space. It's amazing.
        2. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 5 January 2021 14: 22
          +2
          Quote: tralflot1832
          15 counted, peeled

          You would be more accurate with the calculations - espionage will be soldered at once. wink
          1. tralflot1832
            tralflot1832 5 January 2021 14: 38
            -1
            In the public domain, in the Pentagon, the duty officer counts every time in the morning! And they cruelly wash their own. drinks
            1. Ingvar 72
              Ingvar 72 5 January 2021 14: 46
              +4
              Our "counterintelligence officers" will be given a report for their work, they do not care that it is in real time in Google maps. Google is far away, and you are here, with an almost finished "clean"! drinks
              1. tralflot1832
                tralflot1832 5 January 2021 14: 54
                -1
                I don’t post photos with wrong frames on the web! They already have enough work! drinks
            2. A_Lex
              A_Lex 5 January 2021 20: 54
              +4
              Freely available at the pentagon


              In the Pentagon, everything that is written here is well known and has long been known. But citizens, this information, which clearly stands out from the harmonious chorus of propaganda of numerous channels and sites doneunas, may suggest that secrecy, which is becoming more and more, is needed to hide information "about amazing production successes and achievements" not from Western partners, but from their own citizens.
        3. Cyril G ...
          Cyril G ... 6 January 2021 13: 19
          +3

          It's March 2018
      2. Cyril G ...
        Cyril G ... 5 January 2021 20: 09
        +4


        After a snowfall, it also happens.
        1. t-12
          t-12 6 January 2021 22: 14
          0
          If even hangars are not made (not to mention concrete caponiers), then what to talk about next?
          1. Cyril G ...
            Cyril G ... 6 January 2021 22: 39
            0
            Well, we have enough of our own jokes, unfortunately, because work has to be done every day at least under a canopy like in Khimki.

            However, the Americans stand in the same way, even in the open air on Elmendorf ...

            And on the "southern" bases the same
            1. t-12
              t-12 6 January 2021 23: 10
              0
              Elmendorf is still 1000-1500 km from the Russian border. And not 150-200 km from Norway and Finland, like Severomorsk-3. 200 km are covered by a bomber in 7 minutes. One blow - and there is no aviation. For example, Misawa is located closer to Russia, where all the planes are in concrete caponiers.
  • Vovan
    Vovan 5 January 2021 13: 39
    -2
    Quote: Aleksandr1971
    then such critics themselves, if they do not put forward competent, weighted counterarguments, are simply bast shoes.

    Please, here's your criticism.
    The 6RP gearbox, which is planned to be installed on the miracle ship, was designed using the technical solutions of the P055 gearbox used in the power plant of project 22350 frigates. The main consequence of this is that the half-dead Zvezda Reducer uses the same industrial capacities for parts and assemblies for P055, and for the same from 6РП. That is, you have to choose: either 22350, or 20386 and its variants. Accordingly, the equipment that is used for reverse gear transmissions used on the corvettes of projects 20380 and 20385, when switching to 20386, will be unclaimed, which can also have consequences.

    The equipment at the plant is universal (here's a great discovery) and is used for the production of any range (for which the chief technologist is responsible) and a decrease in this very range leads to an increase in labor productivity (an increase in total output - the number of gearboxes) and a decrease in cost. Actually, this jamb in the reasoning is already enough for the rest of the article to go to waste.
    PS On the issue of disrupting GPV-2020 in the part of the Navy, for some reason you stubbornly do not see the loss of competence in production, which still needs to be restored.
    1. A_Lex
      A_Lex 5 January 2021 20: 43
      +3
      Actually, this jamb in the reasoning is already enough for the rest of the article to go to waste.


      If any clause of the agreement does not comply with the law, then not the entire agreement as a whole is recognized as null and void, but only this clause.
      Likewise. If the logic is broken or the facts are not observed in the reasoning regarding the topic about reducers, then this applies only to the topic about reducers and does not apply to other topics.

      A favorite tactic of bureaucrats is to refuse to accept the entire document if at least one error is found that makes the document inconsistent with the established form. And this tactic is called appropriately - formalism. As a rule, a bureaucrat is a very bad person precisely because he uses the tactics of formalism in order to have a reasonable opportunity to refuse to consider a case on purely formal grounds. Thus, the one who criticizes from the point of view of formalism puts himself in an unprepossessing light, because his goal is not to understand the essence of the issue, but to find any error or inaccuracy in order to blacken the whole course of reasoning on this basis.
      1. Vovan
        Vovan 5 January 2021 21: 50
        -3
        Likewise. If the logic is broken or the facts are not observed in the reasoning regarding the topic about reducers, then this applies only to the topic about reducers and does not apply to other topics.

        Study materiel - in particular, Duns Scott's Law. If the author was mistaken about one thing, then it is not advisable to spend time and effort searching for other errors, since even one logical error is enough to put all the reasoning at expense.
        1. A_Lex
          A_Lex 5 January 2021 22: 42
          +1
          If the author was mistaken about one thing, then it is not advisable to waste time and energy looking for other errors


          This quote is stupid, because it is human nature to make mistakes. It’s not normal to chase for mistakes, expecting to immediately get some kind of perfect infallibility, which almost never happens.
          1. Vovan
            Vovan 6 January 2021 00: 13
            -2
            Quote: A_Lex
            This quote is stupid, because it is human nature to make mistakes. It’s not normal to chase for mistakes, expecting to immediately get some kind of perfect infallibility, which almost never happens.

            Directly not in the eyebrow, but in the eye - applicable to all points of the criticized text.
            Shl The one who does nothing is not mistaken, but the author's mistakes are not from hard work, but from banal profanation.
            1. A_Lex
              A_Lex 6 January 2021 01: 58
              +3
              Directly not in the eyebrow, but in the eye - applicable to all points of the criticized text.


              Recognizing a guide lover. Don't dare criticize the leadership. The one who does nothing is not mistaken. Wait a few more decades. Moscow was not built in a day.
              And a diametrically opposite approach to leadership critics. Here is the demand from them for the full program and scrupulous looking for any inaccuracies.
              Those. some have a wide green street and an open estimate for mistakes, while others are better off not opening their mouths, because there is always something to add to.
              This is called a principled position.
              1. Vovan
                Vovan 6 January 2021 02: 21
                -2
                Once again - by letter, especially for the generation of the Unified State Exam - this is not a mistake, this is a profanation: elementary ignorance of the subject under discussion. Or a deliberate distortion. Everything else is demagoguery.
                1. A_Lex
                  A_Lex 6 January 2021 10: 47
                  +2
                  this is not a mistake, this is a profanation


                  Exactly. Constantly do nothing but make mistakes, only a very stupid person is capable of that. And above there are none. A very accurate term was chosen. This entire shipbuilding program is one big profanity, which is being carried out to the accompaniment of grandiose plans that have been bravely announced for 15 years. In reality, for the most part, something that is incapable of combat is being built, or a lower priority instead of a higher priority. Profanity is. Mystification!
                  1. Vovan
                    Vovan 6 January 2021 11: 30
                    -2
                    Quote: A_Lex
                    A very accurate term was chosen. This whole shipbuilding program is one big profanity,

                    And this is said by a man who has not designed or built a single ship in his life! is a profanation, and your reasoning is demagoguery.
                    1. A_Lex
                      A_Lex 6 January 2021 16: 51
                      +2
                      who never designed or built a single ship in his life!


                      This concludes the debate. I can't afford to spend so much time on such a primitive bot.
    2. timokhin-aa
      6 January 2021 11: 37
      +4
      The equipment at the plant is universal (here's a great discovery) and is used for the production of any nomenclature


      Why go into questions in which you are zero? On the "Zvezda-reducer" there is a separate line, which was formed under P055. It is not used for other nomenclature, there are other machines. At the same time, having made the first pair of P055 for frigate 22350 with great difficulty, Z-R immediately rushed to make parts for 6RP ON THE SAME MACHINES, because 6RP are two gearboxes with inter-gear transmission, developed on the basis of P055.
      Despite the fact that 055 gearboxes are needed for frigates under construction, they have been made for years, this is an acutely scarce position.
      Accordingly, instead of making 055 gearboxes for the next frigate, right now and sometime before November, these machines will be making parts for 6RP. Until November in the optimistic scenario.

      These are facts from the factory, and you keep your fabrications to yourself.
      1. Vovan
        Vovan 6 January 2021 13: 34
        -5
        Quote: timokhin-aa
        Why go into questions in which you are zero?

        How do you manage to contradict yourself in one paragraph and blame your opponent for it?
        Once again, the production line is being formed, and the task of the chief technologist, together with the shift foremen and section managers, is to form it. If equipment - machines - is idle, then it is a problem of management and lack of qualifications, not a problem of machines. There is a prepaid order, and they execute it. There will be another order and a set task - they will reconfigure the lines and train the personnel. You live in capitalism and no one will do anything at the behest.
        1. timokhin-aa
          15 January 2021 21: 45