Military Review

Zamvolt vs. Peter the Great: Who Has More Chances to Survive?

70
Overrated. Here's how it is - over-praised. In a couple of previous materials, I spoke so flattering about the work of Kyle Mizokami that now I am sitting here, and I cannot understand. Kyle, buddy, how could that be?


Water War: Russia's Battlecruiser Kirov vs. America's Stealthy Zumwalt (Who Wins?)

"In connection with the deteriorating relations between Russia and the West, the issue of confrontation between large surface ships has become urgent again."

Okay, so in general we can agree before the Third World War. That it will begin somewhere in the Pacific Ocean with a skirmish ... No, but in fact, this can happen.


In general, with regards to the Third World War in general and the beginning of it at sea in particular, I can tell you the following: it seems to me that the Third World War will most likely begin after the ships of Mongolia or Uzbekistan begin to sink the ships of Moldova or Belarus. I somehow do not observe any more weighty prerequisites for unleashing total annihilation.

By the way, who already has a good laugh? Nearly 500 ships roam around the world under the Moldovan flag ... So there is no need to giggle. Laugh at Belarusian shrimp if you want to.

Well, or Mizokami predicts for us the meeting of large ships of Russia and the West somewhere in a dark corner of the World Ocean in order to arrange some kind of local disgrace with far-reaching consequences.

In general, the picture that Mizokami paints is quite futuristic like that. Somewhere over the horizon, "Zamvolt" and ... "Peter the Great" met face to face.



Moreover, Mizokami himself writes that Zamvolt is a missile destroyer to support ground operations. That he had forgotten in one peakless cap in a remote area of ​​the ocean, where "Peter the Great" staggers like a lonely elephant is a question, as it were.

"What will happen if these two ships meet in battle one on one?"

You know, it's like hand-to-hand combat with a paratrooper from the Airborne Forces. I mean, you have to lose a machine gun, a shovel, a knife and find a second equally gifted one. And to meet the lonely "Zamvolt" with the no less lonely "Peter the Great".

In general, I fundamentally disagree with the Mizoks, and if we compare the Zamvolt, then with a ship of a similar class, and not with a heavy cruiser.

Yes, the Zamvolt is the newest class of ships in the United States, truly stealthy ships with quite impressive firepower. Plus the latest electronic equipment.


In general, "stealth" today is a very conditional thing. It is applicable, shall we say, in the face of opposition from an adversary who does not have modern means of tracking. And when a group of satellites hangs in orbit, AWACS planes fly over the sea, and enemy ships have their own "eyes" in the form of helicopters - all this is very conditional.

Since we are talking about the visibility of "Peter the Great" and "Zamvolt", I think there will be parity. The Americans claim that the signatures of the Zamvolt are comparable to a fishing seiner of 3-4 thousand tons, but the presence of reconnaissance helicopters from the Peter the Great and the Legend orbital reconnaissance system makes it possible to question the secrecy of the Zamvolt.

We are not talking about the stealth of "Peter the Great" at all, of course. It is clear that 25 tons of a cruiser and 000 tons of a destroyer are slightly different things.

The armament of the ships is also completely different. And let's put it this way, from a destroyer, even one as thick as Zamvolt, it is difficult to expect such capabilities as a cruiser has.


Multifunctional radar AN / SPY-3 is the last word in American developments. The station is capable of controlling the entire missile complex weapons ship. 80 universal missile silos for AN / SPY-3 missiles - and perfectly control the ship-to-air missiles Standard SM-2, modified Sea Sparrow, ASROC anti-submarine missiles and guided missiles Tomahawk.

In general, a complete set.

And if you really want to use the Zamvolt as an air defense ship, you can load 4 Sea Sparrow missiles of shorter range into each cell, and then the ammunition load will be "only" 320 missiles. That is, if something happens, Zamvolt has something to fend off enemy missiles. Plus two 30mm cannons. The destroyer seems to be able to protect itself.

Peter the Great's radar facilities include a very large number of stations. 16 stations of three types. General ship tracking, tracking and target designation facilities consist of two space communication stations (SATSOM), four space navigation stations (SATPAU) and four special electronic stations. The airborne situation is monitored by the all-weather three-dimensional radar "Fregat-MAE", which detects targets at a distance of more than 300 km and altitudes up to 30 km.


With regard to the air defense of the cruiser, then everything is more interesting. SAM "Fort-M" (aka S-300FM) with 12 launchers and 96 missiles. The S-300 is more than enough for both a modern aircraft and a Tomahawk.

At an average distance, "Peter the Great" has 16 "Dagger" launchers and 128 missiles. And at the closest distance - 6 Kortika launchers, 144 missiles and two more 30-mm six-barreled anti-aircraft guns AO-18K.

In general, it is much more serious than that of a destroyer. Yes, we can say that the RIM-162 ESSM is newer than the Daggers, but who tested it in battle?

And now a few words about how these ships could pick each other.

Everything is sad at "Zamvolt". Anti-ship agents are the weak link. "Harpoons" will not fit into the mines, they can be placed, but on the deck, in special PU. The Tomahawk, you know, is a so-so anti-ship missile for many reasons. But the main thing is that modern air defense systems can make a chop out of an "Ax" flying at a speed of 800 km / h.

"Peter the Great" prepared 20 "Granit" anti-ship missiles for "Zamvolt". Seven-ton monsters flying at a speed of 1,5 to 2,5M and each of them is capable of opening such a hole in the destroyer's hull that it is even unpleasant to imagine.

Can SM-2 stop the Granites? Well, in theory, yes. And how in practice - who checked again? On the other hand, if at least one such monster sneaks through the destroyer's defenses, it will not seem a little to him. 700 kg in a warhead is 700 kg of explosives. A modern ship, in which, unlike colleagues from the Second World War, there is simply no armor, it will deploy such a rocket like a rose.

Mizokami talks about artillery. Well, yes, there are guns on both ships. On Zamvolta it even looks more impressive, because two 155-mm guns with a rate of fire of up to 10 rounds per minute are quite.

"Peter the Great" also has artillery. The good old AK-130 double-barreled.

However, the weapons are completely different. American - the newest, from which they shoot exclusively special LRLAP shells "weighing" $ 800 apiece at a distance of 000 km. The Russian gun is more modest, and works at a range of up to 81 km. But the combat rate of fire for two barrels is 23 rounds per minute. Against 90 American guns - it looks weighty.

But today it is not even worth considering artillery as a means of fighting ships. Not seriously. A 155-mm projectile that flies according to GPS and hits very accurately is, of course, beautiful. But how many such shells will have to be driven into the "Peter" to make the cruiser unpleasant?

Considering that "Granite" starts from a distance of almost 500 km ...

Zamvolt vs. Peter the Great: Who Has More Chances to Survive?

In general, the artillery of "Zamvolta" was initially focused on suppressing targets on the coast. Fighting with such guns against a cruiser is, well, perhaps as a gesture of despair, nothing more. To inflict damage, the shells, of course, will do, this is indisputable. But Granite alone will turn the destroyer into a trough of bloody mince, and there's nothing to be done about it.

Considering that "Granites" can be guided not only with the help of their "brains", but also with the use of ship helicopters, patrolmen Tu-142 and even Tu-95RTs. And there is also "Liana", a system designed specifically for the guidance of such gifts with the help of satellites "Lotos-S".

So, what can happen if these two ships meet on a "narrow path" 400 kilometers long?

Here Mizokami gives out just a masterpiece of thought, and it gave me great pleasure to model this chain of events in my brain.

“Both ships are intensely looking for each other, and helicopters help them with this from the air. In such a situation, the American stealth destroyer has a clear advantage over the majestic, but not stealthy Russian cruiser. The Zamvolta's helicopters will be the first to detect Peter the Great and transmit its exact coordinates to their ship. "Peter the Great" will detect the helicopters, but will not be able to quickly determine the exact coordinates of the destroyer. "

Come on, of course, our destroyers will be found. Moreover, there is no sense in the fact that "Zamvolt" will be the first to spot "Peter", there is no profit from this. There is nothing special to shoot with anyway.

“In theory, the stealth of an American destroyer could allow it to approach a Russian cruiser within the range of its guns. On the other hand, the Russian cruiser will want to stay as far away from the American as possible and strike from a long distance. "
Well, so-so alignment. Approach the distance that Peter's missiles will cover in a matter of minutes and try to pick it open with artillery ... It's funny. It is just as frivolous as relying on the small signatures of the destroyer and that it will not be found from Peter the Great.

“If the Granit missiles manage to detect the Zamwalt, the American destroyer has air defense equipment to deal with them. With at least 18 SM-2 medium-range missiles and several dozen modified Sea Sparrow short-range missiles, the destroyer is likely to be able to shoot down most of the Granite missiles.


That's well said. The Zamvolt will probably be able to shoot down most of the Granites. Quite rightly so. Another question is, what will the missiles that cannot be shot down do to the destroyer?

Trust in guns? Well, after all, this is not the 20th century, and it is hardly worth expecting such effectiveness from shells, compared to missiles.

“The result of this scenario is a draw. Neither ship will be able to accurately aim at the enemy. In the future, new weapons, such as long-range anti-ship missiles, will provide Zamvolt with a significant advantage. In addition, 155-mm projectiles that can be aimed at a target from an unmanned vehicle will also be useful. "

Here I fundamentally disagree with Mizokami. There will be no draws. Kyle himself admits that the destroyer's air defense may not reflect all the attacks of the Russian cruiser. This means that in the event of a military clash, "Zamvolt" will definitely run into Russian "Granites". And here, forgive me, how the cards will fall.

The fact that Mizokami so relies on the long-range guns of the destroyer and the fact that Peter the Great's radars will not be able to detect the Zamvolt, that it seems frivolous. They can. And detect, and provide guidance to him. Still, a ship of 14 tons is a rather large structure, and all these invisibility effects are often very arbitrary.

And if we also take into account the fact that the speed of the "Peter" is higher than that of the "Zamvolt", and in general it turns out that the destroyer cannot catch up or escape.

Of course, Mr. Mizokami painted a too unreal picture. In itself, such a meeting is too fantastic. A destroyer, whose main task is to cover operations on the coast, and a cruiser, whose main task is to capture and destroy just such ships as Zamvolt.

So even taking into account that "Peter the Great" is very outdated in some places, nevertheless, its narrow specialization as a raider-killer leaves no chance for "Zamvolt".


But the main oddity in Mizokami's plot is why exactly a destroyer against a cruiser? I wanted to flatter my ship, they say, is it so inconspicuous that it will not be found? They will find him, he will not go anywhere.

But I would compare with classmates. It's more honest, and if you really want to show how cool Zamvolt is, you can compare it with something else. And so - even the oldish "Orlan" can easily peck this destroyer. Considering the complete absence of anti-ship weapons at Zamvolt, this will be easy.

So Kyle Mizokami went a little too far in comparison, relying on invisibility.
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  1. Crowe
    Crowe 6 January 2021 05: 35
    +22
    "Zamvolt" versus "Peter the Great" "What will happen if these two ships meet in a one-on-one battle?"

    Early in the morning, you can, of course, get acquainted with Mizokami's deep analysis of this hypothetical situation over a cup of coffee, but nothing more.
    That he had forgotten in one peakless cap in a remote area of ​​the ocean, where "Peter the Great" staggers like a lonely elephant is a question, as it were.

    That's really really)) It's like "who will win - a whale or an elephant?" Where they will have to meet, why, why ...
    1. Rostovchanin
      Rostovchanin 6 January 2021 08: 12
      +14
      They have already been pushed together 100 times in articles, they would have come up with something newer, for example, Zumvolt and Nakhimov would have been pushed after modernization wink
      1. Hermit21
        Hermit21 6 January 2021 10: 36
        +9
        So that everything becomes completely sour for the iron?
      2. Dzungar
        Dzungar 6 January 2021 12: 20
        +2
        A QUOTE FROM THE INTERNET - The interest of the Western "partners" in the ships of the Orlan project became clear after the details of the modernization of the Admiral Nakhimov heavy nuclear missile cruiser of the Northern Fleet of the Russian Navy appeared. The updated TARK will be the most powerful ship in the world, armed with 240 attack and 240 anti-aircraft guided missiles (SAM).
        1. _Ugene_
          _Ugene_ 6 January 2021 15: 29
          +5
          The updated TARK will be the most powerful ship in the world, armed with 240 attack and 240 anti-aircraft guided missiles (SAM).
          Why 240 missiles, 9M311-1 dagger missiles forgot? Although they are in the near zone, they are very effective against anti-ship missiles and there are 144 of them, in total, a little less than 400 missiles
          1. Nemchinov Vl
            Nemchinov Vl 7 January 2021 21: 53
            0
            Quote: _Ugene_
            .... have you forgotten about the 9M311-1 dagger missiles? although they are in the near zone, they are very effective against anti-ship missiles
            interesting, they knocked something down in real conditions, more difficult missile targets like "malachite" ....? !! There are actual data ? !!...
      3. the most important
        the most important 6 January 2021 23: 04
        +1
        Quote: Rostovchanin
        They have already been pushed together 100 times in articles, they would have come up with something newer, for example, Zumvolt and Nakhimov would have been pushed after modernization

        It's better with Aurora.
      4. Nemchinov Vl
        Nemchinov Vl 7 January 2021 21: 50
        +1
        Quote: Rostovchanin
        for example, Zumvolt and Nakhimov after modernization would be pushed
        .... oh wait to start, - the exit of "Nakhimov" from modernization ....?! what ...
    2. Mister X
      Mister X 6 January 2021 09: 24
      +14
      Quote: Crowe
      you can, of course, familiarize yourself with Mizokami's in-depth analysis

      hi

      if you really want to show how cool Zamvolt is, you can compare it with something else.
      even the oldish "Orlan" will easily peck this destroyer
      Author: Roman Skomorokhov

      Kyle Mizokami likes to compare green to square.
      At the end of 2020, he described the scenario "the destroyer Zumwalt against the cruiser Kirov."
      Kirov is the lead ship of Project 1144 Orlan.
      According to his scenario - again a draw.
      Like, none of them could accurately aim at the enemy.


      By the way, Mizokami does not see a healthy beam in his own eye: he is so busy blogging.
      His personal website kylemizokami.com is down.
  2. Vladimir_2U
    Vladimir_2U 6 January 2021 06: 38
    +9
    I mean, you need to lose a machine gun, a shovel, a knife and find a second equally gifted
    Yes, we have already found one gifted: Kyle Mizokami - in all its glory. laughing
  3. Thrifty
    Thrifty 6 January 2021 07: 45
    +9
    An elephant and a sperm whale met in an open field. .. wassat something like that will be. ... wassat
  4. evgen1221
    evgen1221 6 January 2021 08: 40
    +6
    When a military journalist has nothing to write about, he starts pulling an owl on a Fauberge. Stupidity but works.
  5. Niko
    Niko 6 January 2021 09: 07
    +7
    Two "specialists" - "journalists" found each other. What could they write about without each other?
  6. Doccor18
    Doccor18 6 January 2021 09: 42
    +4
    Since we are talking about the visibility of "Peter the Great" and "Zamvolt", I think there will be parity.

    what doubtful statement
    ... but the presence of Peter the Great's reconnaissance helicopters and the Legend orbital reconnaissance system makes it possible to question the Zamvolt's secrecy.

    Hmm ......
    The armament of the ships is also completely different ...

    And in general, these ships of different generations (I would say - eras), and their tasks are different, and ... one on one they, with all their desire, would not converge ...
    The Russians wanted something powerful, but they did not know what exactly, so they took everything that was and ... it turned out 1144 Kirov.
    The Americans wanted to "jump into the future" and thereby turn the enemy ships into "obsolete junk", but they failed ...
    And what would happen if these two ships met (in a vacuum, and provided that the Americans succeeded in everything, and the Legend is still in space ...), then ... (with all due respect to nuclear cruisers ... ) there would be little chance of winning the 1144 project ...
    If we compare these ships now, then for the "American iron" one granite will be enough with normal target designation ... that's all the confrontation ...
  7. fa2998
    fa2998 6 January 2021 10: 12
    +8
    Quote: Crowe
    "Zamvolt" versus "Peter the Great" "What will happen if these two ships meet in a one-on-one battle?"

    Peter is certainly worthy of a ship, but he is alone and is getting old. And the Americans, in addition to the Zamvolts, have a bunch of cruisers and a hundred other destroyers. One for one will not work! hi
  8. Hermit21
    Hermit21 6 January 2021 10: 46
    +3
    It is highly doubtful that the Sea Sparrow will help in repelling the Granite salvo. If the hefty R-33 took 4 pieces, then what can we say about more than twice a light rocket. And the "Standards" have a rather narrow window, where there are chances of shooting down
    1. Avior
      Avior 6 January 2021 23: 03
      0
      Their warheads are practically the same in weight, the probability of defeat for the ECCM is much higher, as is the permissible overload.
      All the same, these are missiles from different times.
      What's the problem with the Standard, what's the window?
      1. Hermit21
        Hermit21 6 January 2021 23: 24
        +1
        It's also about the speed and weight of the rocket, which means its kinetic energy. The first two P-33s from those exercises did not even turn the Granit off course. So, for understanding.
        What's the problem with the Standard, what's the window?

        The interval when the missile defense system has not exhausted its kinetic energy and can fulfill the conditions for intercepting an aerodynamic target - at least twice the overload and equal or overspeed. For SM-2 / -6 relative to "Granite" / "Volcano" it is 48-50 km with a near-zero target parameter
  9. Undecim
    Undecim 6 January 2021 10: 48
    0
    And at the closest distance - 6 Kortika launchers, 144 missiles and two more 30-mm six-barreled anti-aircraft guns AO-18K.
    If there are 144 missiles, then there are 12 anti-aircraft guns. If there are two anti-aircraft guns, then there are 24 missiles.
    In this hypothetical case, the main issue is not the performance characteristics and the number of anti-ship missiles, but the possibility of over-the-horizon target designation. And here the advantage is clearly not in "Peter the Great".
  10. Macsen_wledig
    Macsen_wledig 6 January 2021 10: 49
    +6
    Comparison of a spherical snake and a hedgehog in a liquid vacuum, incredible even in that
    Somewhere over the horizon met one on one "Zamvolt" and ... "Peter the Great".

    You don't have to read further ... :)
    1. Rusticolus
      Rusticolus 9 January 2021 11: 23
      +1
      You don't have to read further ... :)
      Correct message. For question number one, and zamvolt generally will swim somewhere there? Or, as always, on the way, or something will leak, or fall off. laughing
  11. Abrosimov Sergey Olegovich
    Abrosimov Sergey Olegovich 6 January 2021 10: 57
    +9
    And if you really want to use the "Zamvolt" as an air defense ship, then in each cell you can load 4 Sea Sparrow missiles of shorter range, and then the ammunition load will be "only" 320 missiles. That is, if something happens, Zamvolt has something to fend off enemy missiles.

    Honestly, this is not the first time I see when the authors, speaking about the power of the air defense of a ship, indicate the full ammunition of anti-aircraft missiles, for Zamvolt, for example, the author indicates 320 missiles ...
    However, the following confuses me: neither Zamwalt, nor any other ship is able to shoot at air targets with a single salvo from the entire ammunition load. I am talking, first of all, and the capabilities of the air defense radar complex to detect, accompany and fire on a certain limited number of targets. I believe that Zamvolt can be sunk by the first and only salvo, which quantitatively (I do not take into account even the various cunning methods of countering air defense weapons) will exceed the capabilities of the ship's radar complex to intercept missiles from a salvo. In this situation, I suspect that much less missiles in a salvo will be needed than 320 + 1 ...
    Then the question is: why do I describe the power of the ship's air defense, the authors indicate the full ammunition load of anti-aircraft missiles, but not the capabilities of the radar complex to intercept anti-ship missiles at a time?
  12. sevtrash
    sevtrash 6 January 2021 11: 15
    +4
    In reality, meaningless comparisons, of course, will not occur in any way. Probably, every more or less large ship of the Russian Navy, immediately after going to sea, is accompanied by a nuclear submarine, and maybe already an UUV. And not one unit, if necessary. Well, and control by aviation. So it's always under the gun. And at the base, probably too.
    And the speculative version of the collision seems to be in favor of Zamwalt. The generations are too different, the RIM-162 Evolved SeaSparrow Missile seems to have the possibility of over-the-horizon damage, and Zamvolt may have up to 320 of them.
    1. Niko
      Niko 6 January 2021 23: 00
      +2
      "PROBABLY, everyone ...." and MAYBE .... "and on the base, PROBABLY too" ... "LIKE IS" ... well, with such an analytical mindset, you need to go to the "analytics" section
      1. sevtrash
        sevtrash 7 January 2021 00: 50
        0
        Quote: Niko
        "PROBABLY, everyone ...." and MAYBE .... "and on the base, PROBABLY too" ... "LIKE IS" ... well, with such an analytical mindset, you need to go to the "analytics" section

        Well, share your absolutely accurate information)))
        1. Niko
          Niko 7 January 2021 15: 06
          +2
          Read, think, read again and think again. Sooner or later, quantity can turn into quality. (Only fewer "analysts" like Skomorokhov, otherwise the level will remain forever: "I heard from a granny") on the site, if you wish, it is not difficult to find good material on all topics about which you wrote "probably" on this week, for example, there was material in which, in particular, the topic of Mormus aviation was raised.
          1. Niko
            Niko 7 January 2021 15: 07
            +1
            Mormyuskoy-it turned out funny
  13. faiver
    faiver 6 January 2021 11: 20
    +2
    the submarine accompanying Petya will drown the iron smile
  14. SovAr238A
    SovAr238A 6 January 2021 12: 27
    +5
    Considering that "Granites" can be guided not only with the help of their "brains", but also with the use of ship helicopters, patrol Tu-142 and even Tu-95RTs.


    Attention question.
    How can a helicopter or a patrol Tu-142 and "even" Tu-95RTs be able to approach the Zumwalt undetected and not shot down at a distance sufficient for target designation?

    I will answer for you.
    You do not.
    In principle, nothing ...
    The chances are less than zero.
    1. Nemchinov Vl
      Nemchinov Vl 9 January 2021 21: 43
      0
      Quote: SovAr238A
      I will answer for you.
      You do not.
      you're right, it's cheaper to use a UAV, for these purposes ...
  15. dgonni
    dgonni 6 January 2021 12: 30
    +6
    I stopped reading after Skomorokhov mentioned the Legend satellite constellation.
    1. Alexander Lysenko
      Alexander Lysenko 9 January 2021 12: 27
      +1
      And Tu-95RTs ...
  16. SovAr238A
    SovAr238A 6 January 2021 12: 38
    +1
    "Peter the Great" prepared 20 "Granit" anti-ship missiles for "Zamvolt". Seven-ton monsters flying at a speed of 1,5 to 2,5M and each of them is capable of opening such a hole in the destroyer's hull that it is even unpleasant to imagine.

    Can SM-2 stop the Granites? Well, in theory, yes.

    Granite flies in march mode at an altitude of 20 km.
    Accordingly, it is visible to everyone, everyone, everyone ...
    Granite has a seeker with a large target detection range of up to 70 km at high altitude. And only then turns off the seeker, begins to descend to a low altitude (another 20 km to this section), flies another 20 kilometers at low altitude and turns on the seeker again already for final guidance before the strike.

    and so. The entire flight up to this distance of the beginning of the descent is high-altitude, where it is very easy to shoot it down ...
    And that it will break through unharmed from a height of 20 and a range of 60-70 km is extremely unlikely ...

    And the fact that the Zumwalt is really unobtrusive and the seeker of the "Granite" is 50 years old - clearly and guaranteed to capture it at a distance of at least 50 km - there is exactly zero confidence ...

    They knock down all the Granites ...
    1. Nemchinov Vl
      Nemchinov Vl 7 January 2021 22: 06
      0
      Quote: SovAr238A
      ... Kills all Granites ...
      then bye NO ONE haven't tried (!)and VERY FEW willing- try to shoot down a salvo of such missiles as "Granite" or "Volcano", Not really at 20, and even at 12-16 missiles ... what ? !!! Is not it ?!!! request winked for sure it's not casual ... (!).
      1. SovAr238A
        SovAr238A 8 January 2021 18: 53
        0
        Quote: Nemchinov Vl
        Quote: SovAr238A
        ... Kills all Granites ...
        then bye NO ONE haven't tried (!)and VERY FEW willing- try to shoot down a salvo of such missiles as "Granite" or "Volcano", Not really at 20, and even at 12-16 missiles ... what ? !!! Is not it ?!!! request winked for sure it's not casual ... (!).


        Maybe our Navy just did not participate in such conflicts?

        And then in Syria they took part in aviation - they got a couple of shot down ...
        Azerbaijan overwhelmed the turntable - and now, after so much time - complete silence ...
        Not there. neither there - no reverse actions ...

        Maybe it's time to bring some of our people to justice, for treason?

        the pilots died for the country, it seems, but the country does not care ...

        So if there is a conflict with the Japanese, they will knock down both granites and slow-moving absolutely stupid calibers ...

        Only onyx can
        1. Nemchinov Vl
          Nemchinov Vl 9 January 2021 21: 31
          0
          Quote: SovAr238A
          Maybe our Navy just did not participate in such conflicts?
          may not have participated (!), and maybe EXACTLY FOR THIS reason (!), plus of course "nuclear hammer holder country"... but the latter is more doubtful for me.
          Quote: SovAr238A
          And then in Syria they took part in aviation - they got a couple of shot down ...
          Azerbaijan overwhelmed the turntable - and now, after so much time - complete silence ...
          Not there. neither there - no reverse actions ...
          You also forgot about the ambassador who was killed in Turkey ... (!).
          Quote: SovAr238A
          Maybe it's time to bring some of our people to justice, for treason?
          I agree. maybe it's time (? !!)
          Quote: SovAr238A
          the pilots died for the country, it seems, but the country does not care ..
          like the Kursk submariners, but .... (!).
          Quote: SovAr238A
          So if there is a conflict with the Japanese, they will knock down and granites and slow-moving absolutely stupid calibers ...
          , but I consider this statement not indisputable (!).
          Quote: SovAr238A
          Only onyx can ...
          their speeds are close enough, but the masses of warheads in "granites / volcanoes"...., and consequently damage, even from two broken missiles ... (!!!).... for any of the warshipscan become much more fatal ... For this, and no one to risk does not want to try THESE CONSEQUENCES, on your ship ...
  17. SovAr238A
    SovAr238A 6 January 2021 13: 01
    +3
    Well, so-so alignment. Approach the distance that Peter's missiles will cover in a matter of minutes and try to pick it open with artillery ... It's funny. It is just as frivolous as relying on the small signatures of the destroyer and that it will not be found from Peter the Great.



    Mr. Skomorokhov ...

    Why do you write articles about military equipment without following the military equipment itself?

    For the past 70 years, the American Navy has been very successful in using heavy missiles as full-fledged anti-ship missiles.
    The use of the current modifications of the RIM-174 SM-6 ERAM missiles as an anti-ship missile will give a target area of ​​240-260 km. And according to the latest data, an increase in the range is planned up to 240 miles (approximately 440 km).
    And do not underestimate the SAM.
    A hit of one or two SM-6 missiles completely removes Peter the Great from the battle.
    Completely.
    It is 99% likely to stay afloat, no problem here. It may not be necessary to fight fires and water ingress.

    But his whole superstructure, all his vaunted 16 radars and a bunch of communication systems will be completely riddled ...
    The ship will be completely blind, deafened.
    Will become incapacitated.
    And here he is so huge, armed to the teeth - they will simply shoot from cannons or the same missiles, but in contact detonation mode.



    For those who believe that RIM-174 SM-6 ERAM is impossible on Zumwalt, that is, they use information from the early 2000s, I can only give this ...
    The MK 57 design allows integration of new and existing missiles into a launcher structure built to handle
    not only all existing MK 41 VLS encanistered missiles, but future “growth” missiles as well, without requiring complex and costly modifications to the launcher hardware or software.
    1. Usher
      Usher 6 January 2021 19: 28
      -2
      Himself is not funny?
      1. SovAr238A
        SovAr238A 7 January 2021 17: 16
        0
        Quote: Usher
        Himself is not funny?

        Not funny...
        Have you seen the work of the PRLR (and its warhead is the same as that of the SAM) on the radar blocks?
        There is half of the football field - the radius of destruction by elements ...

        And in the tactics of using the US Navy in an air strike on ships - it is mandatory in the Hornets' weapon kit - PRLR.
        1. Usher
          Usher 7 January 2021 18: 38
          -2
          Since they are so powerful and dangerous, why are they not used as anti-ship missiles? And we also use it.
          1. SovAr238A
            SovAr238A 8 January 2021 18: 48
            0
            Quote: Usher
            Since they are so powerful and dangerous, why are they not used as anti-ship missiles? And we also use it.

            Use ...
            It amazes me that people write articles about naval weapons. who do not know about it.
            And they consider ships that do not have narrowly specialized anti-ship missiles - unable to attack ...
  18. Vladimir1155
    Vladimir1155 6 January 2021 16: 37
    +3
    an interesting article by the respected Roman Skomorokhov, however, as the author writes, the situation is too far-fetched, the destroyer will go with a dozen other arlie berks, and the cruiser will not move away from its coast, a one-on-one duel will not happen
  19. Usher
    Usher 6 January 2021 19: 28
    -2
    The fact that Mizokami relies so much on the destroyer's long-range guns and the fact that Peter the Great's radars will not be able to detect the Zamvolt, that it seems frivolous
    Here, this is called, passing off the expected as reality. In the cartoon about the LARSM anti-ship missile system, the missile, apparently, magically "sees" the enemy ships beyond the radio horizon, sees the radar field and goes around like a skier of a cliff. It is a type of stealth, but for some reason in the radio silence mode, it’s stealth we don’t forget. Exchanges data with other target designation means. So is she stealth or not stealth? And when it comes out with its subsonic speed to attack the enemy ships (our ships), then for some reason all melee air defense systems (broadswords, daggers, wasps, etc.) are all smeared straight. Really?
  20. arkadiyssk
    arkadiyssk 6 January 2021 19: 57
    0
    A more unprofessional article I've never seen here. What is this nonsense about Zamvalt? Which SM-2 cannons? Zamvalt is a castrated mega ship that has fallen under cuts. As a result, he does not have a decimeter radar, only a centimeter one with which he can sharply shoot down anti-ship missiles but very weakly at air targets at long ranges. He doesn't have any SM-2 or 6. There is no Aegis. The cannons are without shells and in general may be dismantled. As a result, only ESSM Axes and Asrok on submarines. And all the troubles of Zamvalt not because they could not build it, but because the USSR with its mega fleet collapsed and such a ship was unnecessary. In the same way as the Sivolphs covered and began to build Virginias, in the same way they covered the Zumwalts and began to rivet the modernized ArlieBerkes and already 10 of them were built. What is this nonsense about stealth and the alleged possibility of detecting a ship from space? What's the point of finding the ship? The ship needs stealth so that its seeker missiles are not seen. What is guaranteed to hit Peter simply will not capture Zumwalt. Just like in the F-22, the joy of detecting it with a meter radar will not add the ability to capture it with a millimeter homing missile or detect it using an OLS, because long ago, the Americans switched from tactics of impossibility of detection (F-177, B-2) to tactics of non-hitting (F-22 F35).
    1. Evil Booth
      Evil Booth 8 January 2021 21: 14
      -1
      missed four R-77s, range 110 km, maneuvering target 12G for mig31 p27 drags 80 with IR sight from moment29 kory quite so receives commands from the ground or from moment31. they all get good commands from the ground from the air force and the carrier's own. Well, even terrestrial ones fly 135 km. I will reveal a big military secret about the failure to hit. s300v in the mid-80s on the machine was leading from 100+ km of pershing warhead which was physically less than f35 and more stealthy (cone). and faster at times ... and Nitsche led it like that)) 16 pieces in a volley shoot down steadily.
  21. Starshina
    Starshina 6 January 2021 23: 05
    +1
    This virtual "battle" is of course complete nonsense !!! But as the saying goes - "a fairy tale is a lie and there is a hint in it" --- and a hint is that the Eagles, even in a deplorable state, instill fear in a potential enemy !!! Therefore, the disposal of these ships is just a crime against the fleet and the country !!! It is urgent to restore and modernize the Eagles and put these ships into operation as soon as possible !!! Before the appearance of the atomic Leaders --- The Eagles will well strengthen the Russian oceanic fleet and, together with nuclear submarines, will create a powerful strike "fist" !!!
  22. Vladimir Lenin
    Vladimir Lenin 6 January 2021 23: 06
    0
    I would love to listen to a story from the series: "What will happen if the Zumwalt and the project 68-bis cruiser Mikhail Kutuzov meet in an artillery duel"
    1. IrbisKot
      IrbisKot 7 January 2021 22: 13
      0
      IMHO the most beautiful comment good... The topic itself is absurd to the extreme. In general, the eagle has not the slightest chance, if only because it will be alone and without an external control center. I think that in the event of a war, such ships will have the fate of the battleships of the Republic of Ingushetia and the USSR - to stand in the bases throughout the war for fear of losing them in the first battle. The only difference is that in their bases, alas, they will be destroyed no less quickly ...
      1. Evil Booth
        Evil Booth 8 January 2021 21: 10
        0
        does zircon exist? okay dagger 3000 km + tu22
  23. A1845
    A1845 7 January 2021 17: 55
    +1
    New Year and the topic is old
    What will happen if "Zumwalt" and Project 68-bis cruiser "Mikhail Kutuzov" meet in an artillery duel

    Better with Scharnhorst
    1. IrbisKot
      IrbisKot 7 January 2021 22: 15
      0
      With the battleship "Soviet Union" sad
  24. 3danimal
    3danimal 8 January 2021 13: 51
    0
    and the Legend orbital reconnaissance system

    The legend has long ceased to exist. Check the information, you can't make such obvious blunders.
    There is Liana, consisting of 4 satellites.
    1. Evil Booth
      Evil Booth 8 January 2021 21: 09
      0
      well, 4 ... ships sail somewhat slower than satellites and long-range reconnaissance aircraft, even 1 of them. Or is there a special task to destroy everything at once? what for? from the area will shower the enemy with ICBMs with OFBCH
      1. 3danimal
        3danimal 9 January 2021 04: 29
        0
        Can you imagine the width of the satellite's swath, its attachment to the trajectory of movement around the Earth and the frequency of its appearance in a certain area of ​​the ocean along this trajectory?
    2. Alexander Lysenko
      Alexander Lysenko 9 January 2021 12: 30
      0
      A legend that cannot give any CU from the word "in general".
      1. 3danimal
        3danimal 9 January 2021 13: 11
        0
        I agree. But it does not exist at the moment, as indicated to the author.
        In general, this is a problem of such articles: they often strive to use a "cheat code", magically obtain a control center, etc., in order to have an advantage over a more modern ship (in this case).
  25. Evil Booth
    Evil Booth 8 January 2021 21: 08
    0
    for a minute, the zumvolt ended up with only a pair of 12,7 machine guns
    1. 3danimal
      3danimal 9 January 2021 13: 03
      0
      Wait, what about a pair of 57mm Bofors?

      (On the roof of the hangar)
    2. ecolog
      ecolog 11 February 2021 00: 43
      0
      it is from Somali pirates apparently
  26. koramax81
    koramax81 9 January 2021 22: 13
    0
    Interestingly, and the helicopter taking off from Zamvolt also has stele technologies (I'm not an expert, if anything, and I don't know from what distance a helicopter can be spotted in the sea)?
  27. Job74
    Job74 13 January 2021 12: 33
    0
    After a global catastrophe, mold will have the most chances to survive.
  28. Maksim_ok
    Maksim_ok 20 January 2021 11: 56
    0
    "It is applicable, let's say, in the face of opposition from the enemy, which does not have modern means of tracking. And when a group of satellites hangs in orbit, AWACS planes fly over the sea, and enemy ships have their own" eyes "in the form of helicopters - all this is very conditional "

    - These are arguments for the layman. The Russian Navy does not have any of the above, and if it does, then it does not work properly in insufficient quantities. It's funny about helicopters.
  29. u4gr8Kk6p8
    u4gr8Kk6p8 9 February 2021 20: 49
    0
    At one time, he took an active part in the construction of two Eagles. They constantly compare the cruisers of the project 1144 with anything, and somehow they forget that these cruisers have a developed reservation. I'll just give you an excerpt -

    The 1144 project cruisers are protected from getting damaged by anti-torpedo protection, double bottom throughout the hull, as well as local booking of vital parts of TARK. As such, there is no belt armor on the 1144 “Orlan” cruisers - armor protection is located in the depth of the hull - but along the waterline from the ship’s bow to the stern there was a thicker 3,5 meter covering sheath (including 2,5 meters above the waterline and 1 meters below the waterline) which plays an important role in the constructive protection of the cruiser.

    TARK project 1144 "Orlan" became the first warships after the Second World War, the project which was laid sufficiently developed booking. So the engine rooms, the rocket cellars of the Granit complexes and the reactor compartments from the sides are protected by 100-mm (below the waterline - 70 mm) and from the side of the deck by 70-mm armor. Armor protection was also provided to the premises of the combat information post of the ship and the main command post, which are located inside its hull at the waterline level: they are covered with 100-mm side walls with an 75-mm roof and traverses. In addition, in the stern of the cruiser there is armor on the sides (70-mm) and on the roof (50-mm) of the helicopter hangar, as well as around the ammunition storage and aviation fuel. Local reservations are available above the tiller compartments.

    I had to deal with the booking of the Eagles at work, and yes it is in fact. And so, as gossip, familiar guys said that radar for example TARK "Kalinin" is capable of controlling the sky over Moscow from St. Petersburg, or even such a trifle as the ability of a cruiser to shoot down satellites in low orbits.
    1. ecolog
      ecolog 11 February 2021 00: 43
      0
      70 mm? and what will such armor save from?
  30. ecolog
    ecolog 11 February 2021 00: 41
    0
    Why are these comparisons anyway? War is not a knightly duel or a football match.
    We, in the foreseeable future, will not have a fleet of "Peter the Great", or something like that. This means that on occasion, they will simply score it with quantity. As in their time "Bismarck" or "Yamato". They piled up in a crowd and drowned.
  31. Michael
    Michael 7 March 2021 13: 52
    0
    Arrange a kind of ship biathlon! How beautiful it would be !!!!!! Ships in general are beautiful to the sinking heart, and zamvolt is a freak.
  32. yehat2
    yehat2 11 March 2021 11: 34
    0
    In general, the US doctrine did not somehow envisage a breakthrough of the complex air defense anti-ship missiles, that the harpoon, that its analogs are missiles, are rather slow, although convenient in terms of their performance characteristics.
    The reason for this stagnation is the lack of a powerful missile air defense system on the ships of the USSR.
    We did not build destroyers at all, which could create a serious anti-aircraft shield.
    Ships like Bold and many others carried some kind of protection, but not very effective even against harpoons.
    Now new missiles have begun to appear - for example, in Japan, which are already leaving for Mach 3.
    it is already more difficult to shoot them down. And also in India, China and other countries. I think that the new versions of the harpoons in the USA will already have a significantly increased energy.
  33. Modun
    Modun 12 March 2021 07: 59
    0
    again hap-hacking, taking into account the fact that soon there will be nothing to modernize from the Soviet reserve
  34. okroshka79
    okroshka79 21 March 2021 23: 54
    0
    A strange comparison of sour with soft!
  35. nikant
    nikant 28 March 2021 13: 12
    0
    some kind of nonsense to compare something with something ... these false-victorious reports are not needed by anyone ... while all the electronics are in the pen - there is nothing to catch ...