Military Review

USSR. We are doomed to live together

311
USSR. We are doomed to live together

The most difficult year for all mankind in the XNUMXst century has ended. To the problems associated with changes in global politics, with the unpredictability of the actions of the heads of state, with the economy and relations between countries, there has been added a global threat - a pandemic. The world, to which everyone was accustomed, which, although it was not just, was its own, began to collapse.


Against this background, the problem of nostalgia for the past was very clearly highlighted. Yes, according to the very past, with which not long ago we fought with such pleasure and zeal. More and more people recall with annoyance the lost socialist past. More and more people, even from a generation that have never seen this very socialism with their own eyes, are beginning to dream of its return.

For some reason, it is generally accepted that nostalgia for the socialist past is characteristic only of citizens of the former Soviet republics, but now independent countries. Even a pseudoscientific substantiation of such a phenomenon was invented - the genetic memory of several generations. Meanwhile, according to social polls in the former socialist countries, the number of people who regret the socialist past ranges from 10 to 30 percent or more.

The Federal Republic of Germany is an excellent example of this nostalgia. There, according to polls, the number of those wishing to return everything is estimated from 10 to 40% of citizens. Such a spread is due to the difference in the social status of West and East Germans that has survived to this day.

Of course, this state of affairs can be explained by the large number of pensioners. They remember their youth. And in youth, ice cream is tastier, and girls are prettier, and the air is cleaner. But it's not that simple. Then how to explain the emergence of left-wing radicals? How to justify the growing popularity of left-wing parties? And the burst of fashion for socialist ideas in general?

Does Russia want to become the new USSR?


The post-Soviet period can be characterized as a period of great resentment against Russia for what was happening in the Soviet Union. Moreover, our former fellow citizens for some reason forgot about how much was built (in their now independent states) during the period of the USSR, what social environment the Union created, how specialists were trained for their economy. They do not even remember that the very existence of their people became possible only after entering Russia.

The Russians became to blame for all the troubles that befell these new countries after the collapse of the Union. A kind of "little man" complex, for which the "big" decided everything. Even in the emergence of nationalism and fascism in these countries, Russia is accused.

Remember the speeches of Ukrainian politicians. They already openly say that their Maidan is a project of Russia. We also created odious nationalists, like the Right Sector or C14?

Why are such pearls launched into society? Why are those who in the initial period at the origins of numerous revolutions soon call themselves agents of the Kremlin? This is more or less understandable. Amateurs who have broken through to power very quickly understand that they cannot stay there for a long time. Leading a government is a little harder than criticizing it.

That is why yesterday's revolutionaries are beginning to pull everything they can into their own pockets. We must have time to fill the chests so that later, somewhere in London, Berlin or Paris, we can tell local politicians about the barbaric state, about the dictatorship of the president, about the omnipotence of the special services, about the persecution of dissidents. And they steal shamelessly, brazenly. Literally everything is swept away. And what they cannot swallow is sold for the appropriate bribe to foreigners.

The calculation is correct. Do the Georgians admit that it was they (and not Russia, the United States or some aliens) who chose Saakashvili? Of course not. Maybe the Armenians themselves chose Pashinyan? No, it turns out that Soros chose him. I will probably keep quiet about the Ukrainians. In general, everyone is to blame. Today is a friend, tomorrow is an enemy, the day after tomorrow is a friend again. And this burden lasts for years. And the Russians are also not to blame for any choice. Already, to the devil's erased, phrase

"I did not vote for him"

set everyone on edge.

Today, when the pandemic has affected everyone in one way or another, when the coronavirus has decently patted the bins of every family, the nostalgia in the former Soviet republics for the stability of Soviet times has intensified. The number of those oriented towards the USSR has grown exponentially. Note, not Russia, but the USSR.

The transformation has also taken place in the minds of Russians. Even those who until recently were in favor of the complete restoration of the USSR within its former borders are now talking about the selective admission of the former Soviet Union to the future Union. We no longer need the Baltics, Western Ukraine and some other countries too. An interesting change, isn't it?

So do we want a new Union or not? And, if we want, then in what and in what composition? What ideas? For what purposes? A great many questions arise. And there are no definite answers to them. It turns out that we are dreaming about as many different types of unions as there are citizens living in Russia and in other countries.

In fact, we all want, of course, a stable state with peaceful borders. Perhaps this can be the most appropriate definition for a future union.

How do we want to unite?


Probably, no one will argue with the fact that Russia, in all periods of its development, despite the autocratic power, was a union. A union of peoples (different in culture, customs, faith, etc.). Therefore, small nations went under the protection of the Russian Tsar. That is why they asked for the rule of the Russian emperor. Therefore, they entered the USSR not as provinces, but precisely as republics. Therefore, these peoples remained with their history, by their customs, by their faith.

The very idea of ​​a welfare state is progressive, but its implementation in the late USSR was utterly perverted. Therefore, it took some time for the next growth in the popularity of a state in which everyone is equal. The human psyche is designed in such a way that over time the bad is forgotten, and the good takes on a global scale.

I would divide those who yearn for the restoration of the USSR into several categories. First of all, it is romance. Those who believe that the unification will occur due to the very genetic memory of generations. He believes that tired of injustice, betrayal of national interests, of plundering their state, the people of the new independent countries will take power into their own hands in one way or another and ask the Russian Federation to join it as one of the regions.

The dream is beautiful, but utopian in its essence. It is beautiful in that it is very easy to implement. The Russians don't have to do anything. Just live and wait for the messengers with the petition to appear. And then you can still move your nose. Whether we want these or not to our union, our federation.

And life makes this dream utopian. If the new state is politically and economically successful, then why would it lose part of its independence when joining a new state? Why worsen the lives of its citizens by increasing spending on the maintenance of the federal center? And if the state is destroyed and thrown to the very bottom of economic life, reduced to the level of poverty of the people, then do we need it? Can we pull it purely economically?

I would call the other part of the supporters of the reconstruction of the USSR economists. The original idea here is more modern and more capitalized, if you will. The Russians have to work here. Simply put, the essence of the idea is that Russia should become another “economic tiger” in a short time. Perform an economic miracle and become one of the richest countries in the world. If not surpassed, then equal in power to the United States. And then the neighbors, as it were, will automatically want to be friends with us and wish to join our structure.

Alas, the desire to become a rich country in the modern world is not realizable. The world economic system is organized in such a way that any state that will show significant economic growth and pose a threat (in economic terms) to the powerful will be crushed by sanctions, blockades, import and export bans. To our deep regret, we see such examples quite often.

Thus, the prospect of the economic rise of any state is possible only after the total breakdown of the existing system of economic relations in the world. And this is not a matter of a single day, not a single year, decades. Or a war. That is, in any case, the decision to recreate the union based on the economy is a matter of the distant future.

There is one more category of supporters of the union. I would call her kind (compassionate, kind). They are based precisely on feelings, and not on any calculations or expediency. True, this category does not cover all the former republics of the USSR, but only those parts of them where the war took place, where blood was shed. Abkhazia, South Ossetia, Donbass.

These views are based on the memory of Russians about the Great Patriotic War. Almost every family has heroes of that war, there are those who died in that war. Even children in Russia are aware of the sacrifices made by the Soviet people at that time. Destruction, death of people in war and other horrors are superimposed on the very personal memory of each person and on the memories of the family. And a person is ready to give up the last in order to somehow mitigate the fate of those who are at war today, without even leaving their own home.

Alas, not everything is simple here either. In any war that took place or is ongoing on the territory of the former Soviet Union, both sides are right and guilty. They are right because they are ready to defend their views on the structure of their state even at the cost of their own lives and the physical destruction of some of their opponents. And they are guilty because they are involved in the actual murder of their fellow citizens. In the destruction of your own country.

Everything else, all references to ancient chronicles, which speak of the ownership of lands by a certain people, references to the opinion of the whole people, separatism, totalitarianism, conservatism (and other isms) are just propaganda tinsel designed to explain the war. The Soviet Union, creating a new community of people - the Soviet people, mixed all peoples deeply enough to be able to talk about some rights to land or the creation of a national state.

We do not yet pay enough attention to the danger


The past year has shown the weakness of our (Russian) positions in the border states. Several countries have demonstrated at once that Russia's influence is no longer sufficient to maintain stability at the borders. We do not have enough arguments to coerce the former Soviet republics into partnership.

Years of talk about soft power, which we supposedly do not use in these countries, has led to the fact that the former soviet have developed immunity. They perceive this very force as an opportunity to receive goods from Russia again at reduced prices or even free of charge.

For us, such conditions are impracticable. We are not strong enough economically to act in the same way as the USSR did. We give benefits, but this is not enough for our neighbors. They openly say that Russia is pressing them economically. Add to this the aggravated social issues and you get an explosive mixture of deterioration in the lives of people and Russia as the reasons for this deterioration.

Slowly, but already noticeably enough, the former Soviet republics are switching to the creation of states, the main idea of ​​which is to confront Russia (anti-Russia). For some reason, we continue to believe that among our neighbors there are our friends who love us and will love us because of some mythical “common root” in antiquity. Or because we once saved them from destruction, etc.

I would like to remind you of one situation that in a fairly short period of time dramatically changed the attitude of a part of the people towards Russia. To be honest, I still don't understand why this technique is not used, for example, in Ukraine?

Remember the introduction of the Latin alphabet instead of the Cyrillic alphabet in Kazakhstan? It seems to be okay? On the contrary, it became more convenient for Kazakhs to learn European languages. And what happened after a couple of years? The growth of nationalism, talk about territorial claims against Russia, anti-Russian sentiments. Just the Europeanization of the alphabet and such results.

There is one more factor to remember. This is the lack of real subjectivity in the former Soviet republics. Let's look at the alternative history of some states. In Ukraine, this story is now elevated to the rank of state, In Belarus, it is an opposition idea. It all depends on who is in power at the moment.

The story is invented, often funny and does not correspond to historical facts, but it exists. And it is already in the minds of young people. Already today this story is “fighting” with the allegedly invented Russian history. We take great risks when we reduce this historical research to laughter. We have not learned the example of the Baltics? But all this happened before our eyes.

The Baltic states no longer perceive their fascists as fascists. Even a new explanation for this phenomenon has been invented. From the point of view of the Baltic states, an SS man is only a fascist when he is German and voluntarily went to serve in the SS. In the Baltic States, however, the SS troops went not only voluntarily, but also on call. So, they are no longer fascists, they are fighters for the freedom of their own people?

The same card is being played now in Ukraine. No matter how hard Ukrainian opposition politicians try to tell that the Ukrainian people will not accept the bandits and murderers of their own people from the OUN-UPA, the SS Natigal division and other nationalists and traitors, literally on January 1, we will again see the all-Ukrainian celebration of Stepan Bandera's birthday there.

We will see how the fascists will pass through the capital of Ukraine with the tacit consent of the people of Kiev. Moreover, they will pass without hiding under their own banners, with unambiguous slogans and openly zigging. And those who do not perceive these ideas will stand by and watch. And then they, too, will just look at how they humiliate the veterans-front-line soldiers on May 9 ...

In general, no matter how offensive it may be for our neighbors, the new states have not yet formed as sovereign countries. They have not yet identified themselves specifically as states. There are already signs of the state, but there is no subjectivity. Maybe that is why the most contradictory ideas coexist so easily there and our Western partners are so stubbornly climbing there?

We don't care to live together


The West did not change the global task for itself. This is a struggle with Russia, its disintegration from within or a military takeover and, ultimately, the establishment of control over natural resources. The global West does not need a strong and independent Russia. Moreover, it is dangerous.

The West does not intend to fight the Russians either. The memory of Russian and Soviet soldiers on the streets of European cities is too alive. And a long life in greenhouse conditions led to the degradation of the European armies. These are more ceremonial boxes than combat units today.

There is only one option left. Create a zone of instability on the borders of the Russian Federation that would distract Russians from the fight against the West and drain the juice from the Russian economy. There are two ways to do this. Either create “like European” states, which would be on a short leash with the West, but would be part of this West only conditionally, or create a zone of instability, a zone of constant war.

The decades that have passed since the collapse of the USSR already allow us to see both these scenarios with our own eyes. The first option was implemented in the Baltics. And what is the result? As a result, we see deserted states from which young people leave en masse. Completely destroyed economy. What was once the pride of the people of these countries is now a thing of the past. Now these are the countries that are on permanent subsidies from the EU.

The second scenario is clearly visible in Georgia or Ukraine. All the same steps to destroy the economy. The same scenario for creating a donor state of labor resources. The same policy of creating an economy completely dependent on Western handouts. At the same time, a sluggish war, which explains the causes of all misfortunes.

As we can see, both scenarios do not provide for the creation of strong and rich states. The West does not need competitors. We need workers and soldiers who, under certain circumstances, will become cannon fodder in a local war. The Americans do not want to seriously arm and train the armies of their "allies". The war on 08.08.08 perfectly showed what American training is.

The former Soviet republics already have an understanding of what the future holds for their countries. So far, very few local politicians have expressed these views. But as the situation develops, their number will increase and ultimately lead to a reorientation of each state towards Russia.

I guess we're just doomed to live together. Both geographically and mentally.

We are too Europeans to become an Asian state. And too Asians to become European.

And this applies to all the republics of the USSR collapsed by us.
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  1. Crowe
    Crowe 5 January 2021 05: 11
    +44
    So do we want a new Union or not?

    We want the "old" Union more than the "new." was more understandable, calm and stable. We are nostalgic for respect for science and education, for the professions of a teacher, doctor, designer or engineer. In Soviet times, apartments were not given for a lifetime mortgage, there were completely free education (at all levels), free medicine, full (or almost full) employment, a guarantee of employment for young specialists, the opportunity to receive free (but at the same time earned) housing. This Union is not enough now.
    1. Profiler
      Profiler 5 January 2021 06: 53
      +15
      THE USSR. We are doomed to live together

      A business behind little has become The only thing to do is to crush nationalism (Nazism) in the former republics, and to convince those who hesitate to accept a new form of coexistence in a single space.

      With the current situation (the activity of the country's leadership), when we have not only Transnistria and Donbass are "frozen", but even OUR Crimea, which still not fully integrated into all systems of finance and management "because of the threat of sanctions" - question about "USSR V2.0"utopian.
      1. Aitvaras
        Aitvaras 5 January 2021 09: 08
        -5
        And the respected proposes to crush nationalism in the former republics, as usual, with tanks, as in Hungary in 1956, in Czechoslovakia in 1968, in Lithuania in 1991, or by other methods?
        1. U-58
          U-58 5 January 2021 09: 12
          +4
          If we are talking about suppressing nationalism (chauvinism), then any methods are good.
          1. military_cat
            military_cat 5 January 2021 09: 55
            +7
            Alas, the desire to become a rich country in the modern world is not realizable. The world economic system is organized in such a way that any state that will show significant economic growth and pose a threat (in economic terms) to the powerful will be crushed by sanctions, blockades, import and export bans.
            "They won't let us eat here" © DMB

            Russia grew without any problems all the zero years, and just do not need to tell that it directly did nothing at all to get sanctions. Let me remind you that the sanctions were met under the official rhetoric "yes, now we will do what we think is necessary without taking into account your opinion, enter as much as you like, your sanctions will not do anything to us, on the contrary, they will help", and this rhetoric was perceived by gullible people at face value - as they now perceive at face value the rhetoric that sanctions are imposed for a desire to become an economically developed country. Until people learn to remember which version they were told yesterday, they will not be able to build an adequate picture of the world in their heads, and without it they will be doomed to become victims of manipulation over and over again.
            1. Normal ok
              Normal ok 5 January 2021 12: 31
              +4
              "Until people learn to remember which version they were told yesterday, they will not be able to build an adequate picture of the world in their heads, and without it they will be doomed to become victims of manipulation over and over again."

              The problem is that many people simply do not want to remember the version of reality they believed in yesterday. For you have to admit that you are far from a genius. And this is unacceptable for the psyche.
              1. Vladimir Mashkov
                Vladimir Mashkov 6 January 2021 17: 34
                -2
                The topic is interesting, necessary and relevant. But the article (in my opinion) disappoints a little. In my opinion, it is somewhat viteevaty and confused, although, following an intricate winding path, the author comes to absolutely accurate conclusion.

                We can add that now in Russia, both in power and in society, there is a struggle of supporters two directions of development of Russia.

                first - the closed development of Russia. Conditionally, this group can be called isolationists, small-town patriots. They believe that no one no longer need to be accepted into the Russian Federation (they will hang on our neck and take all the money !!!). Isolationists-shtetl patriots are fully supported by the West, he also claims that Russia has nothing to do in the former republics of the USSR, they should "develop independently", and the West will help them in this!

                Second direction - supporters not only mandatory internal development of Russia, but also its expansion at the expense of the limitrophes - the former republics of the USSR and the territories of the Russian Empire. In what capacity and under what conditions they will enter the Russian Federation - the second question. But they necessarily must return to Russia and must not only provide for themselves, but also strengthen the power of Russia! Moreover, people living there are mentally close to Russians. Supporters of this trend are called imperials, statesmen, sovereigns. They - the real Russian patriots.

                And about another mistake of Alexander, repeated not for the first time. Here he writes: I will probably keep quiet about the Ukrainians. In general, everyone is to blame. Yes, Alexander, homogeneous societies do not exist anywhere in the world, in any society various opinions! And Ukrainian society is NOT homogeneous, contrary to the assertion of the Ukrainian authorities and minorities Ukrainian society-Svidomites and Bandera! And why are those who are fighting in Donbass, who were burned in Odessa and Mariupol, numerous anti-Maidan supporters and simply opponents of the authorities and Bandera's supporters to blame, along with the corrupt Ukrainian government and the Banderaites? And Ukraine is forever divided into two parts: the smaller pro-Western and the pro-Russian!
            2. Alexey Lantukh
              Alexey Lantukh 15 January 2021 01: 08
              0
              Well, what about China receiving sanctions? And we must think they will get even more. But he did not conquer anything, but kept quiet. And for some reason we Russia needed Syria. Although Gazprom's interests overlapped there. Is it a war for Gazprom? So we got a downed passenger liner and sanctions as well. In general, in world politics, whoever is stronger is right. And Russia with its weak economy should be cunning.
          2. WapentakeLokki
            WapentakeLokki 6 January 2021 18: 12
            0
            for ESPECIALLY KIND I advise you to remember Khatyn and Lviv with Babi Yar ... (the list can be continued, but I think it is so clear what they are)))
            py.sy .. well, and locomotives (as everyone knows, yeah) it is worth PRESSING while they are teapots (well, or there are casters ..)
        2. Profiler
          Profiler 5 January 2021 09: 14
          -4
          Quote: Aitvaras
          And the respected proposes to crush nationalism in the former republics, as usual, with tanks, as in Hungary in 1956, in Czechoslovakia in 1968, in Lithuania in 1991, or by other methods?


          Nationalism, in the forms it acquired in a number of post-Soviet territories, is nothing more than a manifestation of Nazism.

          And with the Nazis, the conversation is short yes ... Or order with you almond?
        3. Aviator_
          Aviator_ 5 January 2021 10: 14
          +5
          Well, the Chinese press regularly in Tibet, and in Tiananmen it turned out very well.
        4. zenion
          zenion 5 January 2021 15: 33
          +5
          This was done in Hitler's Germany and in the democratic USA. There the communists were crushed with prisons, and outside these countries with tanks. They are all good and did everything right, but the USSR did not do that. But the Americans are still in those countries that were captured during World War II and do not itch to leave.
      2. Starover_Z
        Starover_Z 5 January 2021 09: 45
        -5
        Quote: Profiler
        The case for little has become, only something to do is to crush nationalism (Nazism) in the former republics

        Now this cannot be done, alas. This should have been done in the late 70s, in the 80s, when they began to raise their heads openly.
        The West gives "cookies" to our former neighbors, and they sit, carry out all the commands and do not "yap".
        Why can't Russia act the same way ?! Not free loans, but on enslaving agreements, like the West, so that they cannot refuse to fulfill our conditions!
      3. aleksejkabanets
        aleksejkabanets 5 January 2021 10: 25
        +9
        Quote: Profiler
        The case for little has become, only business - to crush nationalism (Nazism) in the former republics, and to convince the hesitants to accept a new form of coexistence in a single space.

        We need to crush nationalism in Russia too. Look at least at the comments in the topic about Ukraine. Whatever Ukrainians are called there.
        1. zenion
          zenion 5 January 2021 15: 41
          +7
          aleksejkabanets (Alexey). An example should be taken from the Ukrainians, they praise their neighbors so much that tears are coming from their ears. As a former friend from Chernivtsi said, his real friend from Israel came to visit. After "100 grams" they went out to Kobylyanskaya Street, the promenade street was under the Soviets. And Sashka spoke in Russian. Then several patriots pounced on him and began to thresh. They beat him off by force. He tells them - tse ne Moskal, tse Jew from Israel. And they told him and others in full voice - we didn’t know much about you. Sashko left Ukraine the next day. In Russia he was well received and everyone cared where he came from.
          1. aleksejkabanets
            aleksejkabanets 5 January 2021 16: 04
            0
            Quote: zenion
            An example should be taken from the Ukrainians, they praise their neighbors so much that tears are coming from their ears.

            Of course, you can take an example from the representatives of the Third Reich, I cannot prohibit you. But tell me, are they all like that in Ukraine? My neighbor often goes there for his granddaughter, does not speak Ukrainian, drinks vodka with them, eats bacon. There are enough people duped by propaganda in any country, do you really need to be guided by them?
            1. WapentakeLokki
              WapentakeLokki 6 January 2021 21: 41
              0
              ... and in the above-mentioned III Reich, the same (oddly enough) there were sane people (for example, fat Herman said ... that I myself in the Luftwaffe decide who is a JEW and who is not ...) and possibly them there were even a lot (i.e. more than 3 or 1000 or ... even all Deutsches), but the trouble for the rest of the world they were NACI ... with Cyclone B, gazen-wagens, blood sampling from children and Doc Mengele. .. so what is there to continue .. it’s disgusting already .. so ukrov will be remembered not by `` normal pasanas '' but by the burnt alive Odessans and bombed Donetsk ... and the lope% of them are to blame and how to separate them .. well I will answer you with the words of a Jesuit before the assault on Montsegur .. (to the question of a simple knight, how to distinguish the norms of a Catholic from a damned heretic in the heat of battle) .. and I think many people know WHAT he advised ...
              1. aleksejkabanets
                aleksejkabanets 7 January 2021 10: 42
                -1
                Quote: WapentakeLokki
                ... and in the above-mentioned III Reich, the same (oddly enough) there were sane people (for example, fat Hermann ...

                The comment is, strictly speaking, that a nation cannot be judged by its individual representatives. In the same Third Reich, there was not only Hitler, but also Ernst Thälmann, and he fought the "Third Reich". The state today does not depend on the people, both here and in Ukraine, and almost everywhere, probably. And the people he is "duped" almost everywhere, a TV instead of a brain in a large number of people.
          2. talib
            talib 6 January 2021 20: 31
            +1
            I answer zenion (zinovy) Why are you telling nonsense? In the center of Lviv you will hear more communication in Russian than in Mov. I go there all the time. And there is an explanation for this. Everyone in Lviv knows Ukrainian, but only educated people know Russian. Inadequacies are found everywhere. And in Chernivtsi and in Cheboksary and in Chicago, and this is absolutely not an indicator. Usually, stories of this kind have small, but significant details, about which the "victims" are modestly silent. For example, the key in your story was perhaps not what language I spoke, what ... After the accepted "100 grams"
        2. Svarog
          Svarog 5 January 2021 22: 22
          +4
          Quote: aleksejkabanets

          We and in Russia need to crush nationalism

          This is for sure ... nationalism is evil .. which destroys the minds and peoples .. and in Russia it is enough.
          1. aleksejkabanets
            aleksejkabanets 5 January 2021 23: 55
            0
            hi Hello Colleague.
            Quote: Svarog
            This is for sure ... nationalism is evil .. which destroys the minds and peoples .. and in Russia it is enough.

            Well, yes, a by-product of capitalism.
      4. ccsr
        ccsr 5 January 2021 11: 32
        -6
        Quote: Profiler
        We are doomed to live together

        As the experience with Ukraine has shown, we will never live together, because if it comes to someone's head to try it, then they will have to start with the destruction of all Bender's henchmen and their relatives. And this will be associated with a lot of blood and this contradicts the worldview of a Russian person.
        That is why there is no need to build illusions, especially since in a quarter of a century we have not even built one state with Belarus, and the Belarusians are the closest and most loyal people to us.
        So you shouldn't open your arms to those who hate us, and this, unfortunately, is present in all the former Soviet republics. We are just a cash cow for them, and they don't perceive us otherwise, as in the same Armenia or Ukraine.
        Maybe it is worth settling down for those who still believe that they are waiting for us with love in the former Soviet republics, and it is better to deal with the arrangement of Russia than to put parasites on their necks once again.
        1. zenion
          zenion 5 January 2021 15: 48
          +12
          Everyone has already become not who they were. Now the main thing is not to be people, but to make money, to fool, to steal and rob. Just like in the movie "The Tramp" with Raj Kapoor. The boss teaches him you will steal, rob and kill. This is how the people of the former USSR have become, who now live under different flags and emblems. When their own are robbed to the hand, a war starts, capitalism without profit turns into ghouls, blood is needed, a lot of blood, rivers of blood. And it will be then as the chronicler wrote - the guests were drunk and they themselves perished. But the one for whom the palace was erected in the former Sverdlovsk wanted so. And they are looking for the guilty, already since the bourgeois revolution of 1917. If it were not for the Bolsheviks, then the present Russia would not exist and the USSR would not exist. But so many scum got out !!!
          1. aleksejkabanets
            aleksejkabanets 5 January 2021 16: 06
            +3
            Quote: zenion
            When their own are robbed to the point, a war starts, capitalism without profit turns into ghouls, blood is needed, a lot of blood, rivers of blood. And it will be then, as the chronicler wrote - the guests were drunk and they themselves perished. But the one to whom the palace was erected in the former Sverdlovsk wanted so. And they are looking for the guilty, already since the bourgeois revolution of 1917. If it were not for the Bolsheviks, then the present Russia would not exist and the USSR would not exist. But so many scum got out !!!

            I absolutely agree with you, it is.
        2. Svarog
          Svarog 5 January 2021 22: 24
          +1
          Quote: ccsr
          Experience with Ukraine has shown that we will never live together

          We will not live together until true statesmen come to power in Russia.
          1. ccsr
            ccsr 6 January 2021 10: 57
            0
            Quote: Svarog
            We will not live together until true statesmen come to power in Russia.

            And from the change of power in Russia, the mentality of Ukrainians will immediately change - so why understand your idea? Doubtful assumption in my opinion.
            Or you can't wait again at the expense of our people to raise the welfare of the Ukrainians who successfully plundered or destroyed the Soviet legacy, and now dream that Russia will restore them again, as it was after the Great Patriotic War.
            I am opposed to this approach to the former "brothers", they must first atone for their betrayal, and then we will think about how to build relationships with them.
            1. Svarog
              Svarog 6 January 2021 13: 56
              +2
              Quote: ccsr
              And from the change of power in Russia, the mentality of Ukrainians will immediately change - so why understand your idea?

              Nothing happens right away. A matter of time and work. Any relationship needs work. That the common people will be promoted in that and he will start to believe.
              1. ccsr
                ccsr 6 January 2021 14: 06
                0
                Quote: Svarog
                That the common people will be promoted in that and he will start to believe.

                The people may believe it, but the leaders of this people will still be nationalists. So there is no need to build illusions - Ukrainian nationalism was in Soviet times, although it was well disguised, but it was not in vain that Shelest was removed precisely because he could not fight it, and moreover, he promoted. How do you like this from the point of view of modern Svidomo:
                In April 1973, when Pyotr Shelest had already left "in connection with the transfer to the post of Deputy Chairman of the Council of Ministers of the USSR" to Moscow, but still retained his place in the Politburo of the Central Committee of the CPSU, in Kiev, in the magazine "Komunist Ukrainy", a review of the book " Ukrainian Nasha Radianska ”, the author of which was Shelest. This review was not discussed at the meeting of the editorial board, since it was previously authorized by Moscow. This material was called "On the Serious Deficiencies and Errors of One Book."
                What was not attributed to Shelest! However, one of the main charges was the following: “In the book called“ Ukraine is our Radyanska ”, an inordinate amount of space is given to the past of Ukraine, its pre-October history, at the same time, such epoch-making events as the victory of the Great October Revolution, the struggle to build socialism are poorly shown. At the same time, Lenin's principles of the class-party, concrete-historical approach to the analysis of individual historical phenomena and facts are violated. This was especially evident in the characterization of the Zaporozhye Sich. The author largely idealizes the Ukrainian Cossacks and the Zaporozhye Sich, considers them as a homogeneous, so to speak, extra-class community.... It should be noted that in recent years a number of books have appeared in our literature (R. Ivanichuk, S. Plachinda, I. Bilyka), which are characterized by the idealization of patriarchalism. Decorating the past, such authors contrast it with modernity. The book "Ukrainian Nasha Radianska" not only does not help to debunk such phenomena, but, on the contrary, limits the possibilities of criticism of anti-historical tendencies in the coverage of the past of the Ukrainian people in art and scientific publications. "
                1. Svarog
                  Svarog 6 January 2021 14: 10
                  +1
                  The people may believe it, but the leaders of this people will still be nationalists.

                  But this is precisely what will depend on the strong centralized government in Russia and the Ukrainian leaders, it is she (the Russian government) who should appoint.
                  1. Alexey RA
                    Alexey RA 7 January 2021 15: 58
                    +2
                    Quote: Svarog
                    But this is precisely what will depend on the strong centralized government in Russia and the Ukrainian leaders, it is she (the Russian government) who should appoint.

                    She appointed this person strong centralized authority THE USSR:

                    Faithful son of the party, head of the agitation and propaganda department, head of the ideological department, member of the Central Committee. And also - the party roof of all nationalist organizations.
                    1. Silhouette
                      Silhouette 8 January 2021 12: 31
                      +2
                      Bandera's son.
            2. dog of war
              dog of war 11 January 2021 00: 04
              -2
              sorry, I'm just wondering: who did the Ukrainians betray and when?
              1. ccsr
                ccsr 11 January 2021 12: 36
                +1
                Quote: War Dog
                Whom did the Ukrainians betray and when?

                First of all, the Russian people were made a national hero of the fascist henchman. Our Vlasovites have always been considered traitors, that is why such an attitude towards the citizens of Ukraine is towards us. And they began to betray immediately after the collapse of the USSR, when they placed Mazepa on banknotes - this is the symbol of all actions of the Ukrainians.
                1. dog of war
                  dog of war 11 January 2021 14: 02
                  -2
                  Well, the fact that Stepan Bandera is a fascist henchman is very controversial. The Germans arrested Bandera at the very beginning of the war, and for most of the war he was in the prison for special important political prisoners "Zelenbau" in the concentration camp "Sachsengavzen". Both Bandera brothers perished in the Auschwitz concentration camp. Stepan Bandera is not a national hero of Ukraine, Yushchenko appropriated him, but the Donetsk court canceled. At the expense of Ivan Mazepa, during the Northern War, Mazepa asked Peter to send reinforcements, but the tsar refused, leaving Ivan Mazepa alone with the Swedes.
                  And which treaty has Ukraine violated today? As far as I know, the Russian Federation guaranteed the territorial integrity of Ukraine and officially announced that it has no territorial claims to Ukraine. But we see that they were not observed. So who did the Ukrainians betray?
                  1. ccsr
                    ccsr 11 January 2021 14: 06
                    +1
                    Quote: War Dog
                    As far as I know, the Russian Federation guaranteed the territorial integrity of Ukraine

                    The Helsinki agreements also fixed the borders in Europe at the international level, and what about them now?
                    Quote: War Dog
                    So who did the Ukrainians betray?

                    I already answered you once - see above.
                    1. dog of war
                      dog of war 11 January 2021 14: 46
                      -2
                      Helsinki agreements !? You are talking about the principles of the political and territorial results of the Second World War, including the principle of the inviolability of borders; territorial integrity of states; non-interference in the internal affairs of foreign states. Are you hinting that the collapse of the USSR is a violation of the Helsinki agreement? Well, the USSR collapsed, as it outlived its usefulness and the republics used their right to secede from the USSR, which was enshrined in the USSR Constitution and in the union treaty of 1922. Say thanks to the August putschists who thwarted the signing of a new union treaty. And in 2014, a clear violation of international law.
                      And what exactly did the Ukrainian people do to you badly?
                      1. ccsr
                        ccsr 11 January 2021 18: 29
                        +1
                        Quote: War Dog
                        Well, the USSR collapsed, as it outlived its usefulness

                        And Ukraine collapsed because it outlived itself as a state with Bandera ideology in 2014. Why, then, are you crying that your boundaries have changed during this process?
                        Quote: War Dog
                        And what exactly did the Ukrainian people do to you badly?

                        The fact that he kills Russian people in Donbass and educates his youth as fascist scum.
                      2. dog of war
                        dog of war 11 January 2021 21: 16
                        -1
                        You know very well that in 2014 a number of treaties between Ukraine and the Russian Federation were violated. And you know perfectly well who "pulled the trigger in the war in the Donbass."
                      3. ccsr
                        ccsr 12 January 2021 11: 49
                        +1
                        Quote: War Dog
                        You know very well that in 2014 a number of treaties between Ukraine and the Russian Federation were violated.

                        What does the Treaty have to do with it, if a coup d'etat took place in Ukraine and the Banderaites came to power? This is your internal affair, which ended with the collapse of the country, and no international treaties could stop the disintegration of Ukraine.
                        Quote: War Dog
                        And you know perfectly well who "pulled the trigger in the war in the Donbass."

                        Bendera promised to destroy the Russian people in the Donbass, so they rebelled. And all your groans that someone interfered with the formation of Ukraine as a state are devoid of common sense - in the post-Soviet space, many former republics where Russian people lived did not change their borders, because there were more adequate politicians there than on the other side.
                      4. dog of war
                        dog of war 13 January 2021 23: 11
                        0
                        Bandera came to power in 2014? It turns out that Yatsenyuk is a Banderaite? And now President Zelensky is also a Bandera member? Jewish - Ukrainian Nazis? However, all this is funny. Russian troops without insignia, which occupied the building of the Supreme Council of Crimea and blocked the Ukrainian military units, is this all an internal affair of Ukraine? Igor Girkin, aka Igor Strelkov, said that his main task was "to liberate Ukrainian territory from the Ukrainians" and when he arrived in Donbass, the locals did not want to fight and join the militia and volunteers from Russia had to "do" everything. But Ukraine itself is to blame for everything, it has collapsed and is fighting by itself. No more questions.
                      5. ccsr
                        ccsr 14 January 2021 11: 22
                        0
                        Quote: War Dog
                        It turns out that Yatsenyuk is a Banderaite?

                        Typical, although they killed the Jews during the war.
                        Quote: War Dog
                        And now President Zelensky is also a Bandera member?

                        Moreover, he betrayed his grandfather, who destroyed the Bendera people.
                        Quote: War Dog
                        Jewish - Ukrainian Nazis?

                        They simply adapted to Bender's ideology and willingly cut coupons from its propaganda.
                        Quote: War Dog
                        Russian troops without insignia, which occupied the building of the Supreme Council of Crimea and blocked the Ukrainian military units, is this all an internal affair of Ukraine?

                        Open the plans of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of those years and there you will find that the use of parts of the southern military district of the Russian Federation was envisaged to protect parts of the Black Sea Fleet - this was agreed at the level of government agreements. Bandera's coup in the capital of Ukraine just demanded the protection of the fleet and our citizens in the Crimea.

                        Quote: War Dog
                        Igor Girkin aka Igor Strelkov told,

                        This is all from the realm of unofficial stories, so find something more serious.
                        Quote: War Dog
                        But Ukraine itself is to blame for everything, it has collapsed and is fighting by itself. No more questions.

                        Of course, herself, because you have always wanted to prove that you are feeding Russia. And when the bummer came out, and Russia stopped subsidizing Svidomo, so immediately the Russians were to blame for all the troubles of Ukraine. Who promoted and where did all your wealth go?
                      6. dog of war
                        dog of war 14 January 2021 15: 31
                        0
                        Open the plans of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of those years and there you will find that the use of parts of the southern military district of the Russian Federation was envisaged to protect parts of the Black Sea Fleet - this was agreed at the level of government agreements.

                        The seizure of the building of the Supreme Council and the blocking of Ukrainian units is a joint plan of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation and the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine? Is this all stipulated by government agreements?
                        Igor Girkin aka Igor Strelkov told,

                        This is all from the realm of unofficial stories, so find something more serious.

                        Girkin, Minister of Defense of the DPR from May 16 to August 14, 2014, he was at the time of the outbreak of the conflict and in the acute phase of the conflict. It is much more difficult to find an official person, he sent all the armed forces of Novorosiya. He received all the available information. But for you, his words are not authority? Then whose words will be authoritative for you?
                        Really, Ukraine is inhabited by Banderites. For example, I am a resident of the southeast, I speak Russian, studied at a Russian school and am I a Bandera? Do you not catch the fact that the picture on TV and in real life is slightly different from real life?
                      7. ccsr
                        ccsr 14 January 2021 16: 04
                        0
                        Quote: War Dog
                        Is the seizure of the building of the Supreme Council and the blocking of the Ukrainian units a joint plan of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation and the General Staff of the Armed Forces?

                        This is the internal plan of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Russia, which was developed, among other things, for situations of coups d'état in Ukraine. The government agreement only defines the possibilities of using units of the Russian Armed Forces in critical situations, and the rest is not the business of the Ukrainian mind.
                        Quote: War Dog
                        It is difficult to find a much more official person, he sent all the armed forces of Novorosiya.

                        It was you who enlisted him as an official after being shamefully defeated by his militias.
                        Quote: War Dog
                        But for you, his words are not authority?

                        Not at all, although I personally respect him for his courage.
                        Quote: War Dog
                        For example, I am a resident of the southeast, I speak Russian, studied at a Russian school and am I a Bandera?

                        And how do you "Russian" perceive that you are forbidden to communicate in Russian in a country that you admire?
                        Quote: War Dog
                        Do you not catch the fact that the picture on TV and in real life is slightly different from real life?

                        Until 2014, every year and more than once I visited Ukraine, so I don't need to talk about what I did not see there without any TV.
  • Silhouette
    Silhouette 8 January 2021 10: 58
    +1
    Both you and the author have missed one very important, one might say, defining aspect of the unification or separation of peoples. This is a problem for the elites. It should be considered more deeply and systematically.
    1. ccsr
      ccsr 8 January 2021 12: 24
      +1
      Quote: Silhouette
      Both you and the author have missed one very important, one might say, defining aspect of the unification or separation of peoples. This is a problem for the elites.

      The trouble is that only in a "totalitarian" society can the elite be forced to work in the interests of their people through coercion - an example of the Stalinist era. In any "democratic" countries, the elite begins to exist on its own and is absolutely indifferent to the interests of its country, which is very well manifested with the owners of transnational corporations.
      So you shouldn't create illusions about the current Russian elite - they would be happy to join the Western elite, but they will not be allowed to do this, so they snap for the time being. As soon as the West "forgives" them and accepts them as equals, we will immediately lose the country.
      Therefore, narrow-minded people shout "Down with Putin", and mature people understand that while he keeps all "Westerners" in his fist, this is a guarantee of our prosperity. That is why literate people vote for him, although they often see that we are not going the way the USSR went.
      1. Silhouette
        Silhouette 8 January 2021 12: 47
        +1
        Not a single elite works in the interests of the people. Make no mistake. In the interests of the state, it is another matter. As an example - the elite of the Russian Empire. But at the same time, it has never been homogeneous. Pareto's law applied to patriots and Western cosmopolitans there as well. Our elite in the West will always be second-rate or third-rate, at the level of the Indian or Japanese.
        1. ccsr
          ccsr 8 January 2021 13: 24
          0
          Quote: Silhouette
          Not a single elite works in the interests of the people. Make no mistake. In the interests of the state, it is another matter.

          And if the state was built to ensure the interests of the working people, like the USSR, for example, then for whom does the elite work?
          Quote: Silhouette
          As an example - the elite of the Russian Empire.

          It should not be idealized, if only because it was this elite who overthrew the tsar in February and plunged the country into chaos. The elite is "good", you can't say anything ....
          Quote: Silhouette
          Our elite in the West will always be second-rate or third-rate, at the level of the Indian or Japanese.

          What makes you think that the Japanese elite are second-rate? Yes, and an Indian, is now the mayor of London - do you represent Sobyanin in his place? I - no, although Sobyanin has much more experience and money. So for the time being, I agree with our elite, but this is how they will treat it if Putin's successor suddenly continues his course - the question is very interesting. By the way, Lebedev's son became a peer - so think about what might follow.
  • Akuzenka
    Akuzenka 5 January 2021 18: 25
    +4
    In my opinion, dear author, I simply forgot the main reason why unification into one country is impossible in a peaceful way. The reason is simple - capitalism.
  • Vadim237
    Vadim237 7 January 2021 12: 24
    -3
    "The case for little has become, only something to do - to crush nationalism (Nazism) in the former republics, and to convince the wavering to accept a new form of coexistence in a single space." And again, hanging all these republics around your neck is not going to happen to Belarus yet, but let the rest go through the forest.
  • dog of war
    dog of war 10 January 2021 23: 49
    0
    Have you heard the Russian proverb "You can't be a violent sweetheart"?
  • Alimzhan Juraev
    Alimzhan Juraev 19 January 2021 22: 14
    0
    "It’s just a small matter, only business is to crush nationalism (Nazism) in the former republics" - but what about crushing nationalism (Nazism) in Russia!
  • Stas157
    Stas157 5 January 2021 09: 08
    +22
    Georgians admit that they are (and not Russia, the USA or some aliens) chose Saakashvili? Of course not. Maybe the Armenians themselves chose Pashinyan? No, it turns out that Soros chose him. I will probably keep quiet about the Ukrainians.

    The same picture is about Yeltsin! Now everyone is against him, as if no one chose him then. The current one, when it leaves, will be exactly the same.

    And even now, if you look, on TV, everything is for the Guarantor. Just unanimously! And on the Internet, the opposite picture is observed - everyone is against (if you take the massive and rated sites that are visited by millions of people, YouTube, for example). Two parallel non-intersecting worlds. One invented for budget money, the other is an inconvenient reality.
    1. Grandfather
      Grandfather 5 January 2021 11: 04
      +11
      I guess we're just doomed to live together. Both geographically and mentally.
      A. Staver, it is geographically inevitable, the rest is nothing ... Hitler reoriented the Germans in three or four years, we (Russia) look from the outside as neighbors change their shoes for the second decade ... there will be no good.
    2. BMP-2
      BMP-2 5 January 2021 16: 29
      +1
      In the days of the USSR, in the philosophical environment, topical topics were "On the role of the individual in history" and "On the role of the masses in history." Paradoxically, in both topics this role was exaggerated! :))
    3. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 7 January 2021 16: 03
      0
      Quote: Stas157
      The same picture is about Yeltsin! Now everyone is against him, as if no one chose him then.

      Yeah ... and no one tries to remember about Manezhnaya.

      And about how popularly spread rot on CT and "Pravda", who dared to voice the fact that EBN is a drunk.
      We will respond to every provocative article in the press with speeches at meetings!
      1. Stas157
        Stas157 8 January 2021 07: 40
        +3
        Quote: Alexey RA
        And about how popularly the CT and Pravda were spreading rot, dare to voice the fact that EBN is a drunk.

        If earlier the media still dared to write the inconvenient truth about the president, now there is no such possibility.

        Now there is only one perspective - varnishing failures and praising "victories". Which is successfully demonstrated on jelly-tv. And for the "insolent" demonstrators, they prepared plastic cups - so that it was discouraging!
  • Mavrikiy
    Mavrikiy 5 January 2021 05: 11
    +11
    Yes, according to the very past, with which not long ago we fought with such pleasure and zeal.
    fool From a sore head to a healthy one. So speak for yourself: "I fought!" But I didn’t fight.
    And this applies to all the republics of the USSR collapsed by us.
    Ruined You THE USSR!
    1. Far B
      Far B 5 January 2021 06: 02
      +26
      And this applies to all the republics of the USSR collapsed by us
      Yes, it's a cherry on top of the cake. Although the article is not a cake at all.
      Horses mixed in a bunch of people
      And Olivier and a bolt on a platter ...
      Stupid article. Confusion, attempts at analysis based on the platform "I am an artist, as I see it."
      with which not long ago we fought with such pleasure and zeal
      Chot somehow immediately stumbled over this phrase. The author is one of those who, yes? Struggled, and with a frenzy? Then a lot becomes clear to me in the position of the author.
      Alas, the desire to become a rich country in the modern world is not realizable.
      For some reason, other countries are implementing it. It's strange. From year to year they show higher rates of economic growth - and do not complex.
      The past year has shown the weakness of our (Russian) positions in the border states
      And here I, I confess, did not understand. Wasn't the author of the article under discussion persuading us of the opposite throughout the past year? Like, "Putin's authority" and so on ... And here - there it is.
      or military takeover and ultimately the establishment of control over natural resources
      Nafig war when control is already in place?
      Create a zone of instability on the borders of the Russian Federation that would distract Russians from the fight against the West and drain the juice from the Russian economy
      Which would give the ruling class the opportunity to frighten the average man: "We are surrounded by enemies! We need to unite! Together we will overcome everything!" Which is what we have the opportunity to observe in real time. And not only here - in America the same garbage. At the beginning of 2018, Putin scared everyone with computer graphics, so the American "leaders" for this business with an honest look are mastering new budget multiyards, simultaneously frightening the people with the Russian / Chinese threat, cyber attacks and other dregs. But in fact, that Putin, that his Western partners are representatives of the same class - the expropriators. They may not stand each other, but ... A hand washes his hand.
      1. Crowe
        Crowe 5 January 2021 06: 21
        +26
        Quote: Dalny V
        The hand washes the hand.

        Another reason for nostalgia for the USSR. Justice, albeit not absolute. In the USSR, high positions and necessary connections did not save those who broke the law from punishment. Today we see the opposite. In our society, high-ranking criminals manage to avoid punishment or serve it in a mild form. are accustomed to the fact that big money opens many doors and gives incomparable benefits.
        There was corruption in Soviet society, but it is not comparable to the scale of the current one. The government is struggling with this, but it looks like there are still no results. The authorities publicly recognize the deep stratification of society into rich and poor. The gap between the strata continues to widen, which was not in the USSR or was not so blatantly noticeable.
        1. Far B
          Far B 5 January 2021 06: 34
          +9
          In the USSR, those who violated the law were not saved from punishment by high positions and the necessary connections
          Saved, but, as you rightly noted, it is incomparable with the current scale. The difference, I'm not afraid of this word, is orders of magnitude. But - zomboyaschik wins so far.
          1. BMP-2
            BMP-2 5 January 2021 16: 33
            +1
            Well, probably, after all, it was not so much the positions that saved, but the connections. Yes, now connections not only save, but also determine the positions held :)
          2. Vadim237
            Vadim237 8 January 2021 19: 39
            -3
            Then on the zomboyaschik and even from each iron they did not talk about the problems - "the USSR blooms and smells", this is really from all the media rushed.
        2. rocket757
          rocket757 5 January 2021 07: 57
          0
          Dreams of universal justice!
          Dreams of equality of ALL before the law! Dreams Dreams ....
        3. paul3390
          paul3390 5 January 2021 09: 44
          +16
          The USSR was the first state since antiquity where money was not a universal measure of being. An alternative value system was created that determines the role and place of a person in society. Hence the nostalgia - not everyone likes the total power of the dough ...


          Once a Spartan athlete was offered 10 talents to lay down in battle at the Olympics. He refused and won. After the victory, he was asked irritably:
          - What do you want in victory, Spartan, if you've given up such a heap of money?
          And he answered smiling:
          - From now on in the battle I will go in the first line of the phalanx, covering my king with a shield. You can not understand..



          The Soviet Union was, in a sense, modern Sparta. The state, with the rest incomprehensible, but very dear to its citizens morality and ethics ..
          1. Avior
            Avior 5 January 2021 11: 11
            -5
            An alternative value system was created that determines the role and place of a person in society.

            Yeah. Is blat and connections a system of values?
            To buy something inexpensive, but scarce "by pull" - a measure of success?
            1. paul3390
              paul3390 5 January 2021 11: 19
              +10
              Do not confuse the Stalinist, true USSR, and its post-Khrushchev sad state.
              1. Avior
                Avior 5 January 2021 11: 27
                -8
                Well, the Brezhnev Soviet Union, according to you, was wrong.
                And what was the system of values ​​under the Stalinist USSR?
                An alternative value system was created that determines the role and place of a person in society.
                1. paul3390
                  paul3390 5 January 2021 11: 31
                  +5
                  You know - if you don't understand this yourself, browse the Internet, read the literature .. And then you ask questions, for answers to which whole volumes are written, but you want me to give you a short but convincing answer. It won't work that way.
                  1. Avior
                    Avior 5 January 2021 11: 41
                    -9
                    I have doubts that you understand what you are writing about.
                    I asked you a simple question that you raised, and you are avoiding an answer.
                    1. paul3390
                      paul3390 5 January 2021 12: 17
                      +11
                      Your manner of reducing global tasks to simple questions is simply touching ..

                      - I said answer - yes or no! A simple question can always be answered with “yes” or “no”; in my opinion, this is not difficult.

                      “Imagine hard,” Carlson intervened. “I will ask you a simple question now, and you yourself will be convinced of this.” Here, listen! You stopped drinking brandy in the morning, answer - yes or no?

                      Miss Bok caught her breath, it seemed that she was about to fall unconscious. She wanted to say something, but could not utter a word.
              2. Esoteric
                Esoteric 6 January 2021 10: 28
                -4
                True, Stalinist USSR - is it when workers live in barracks? In dorms, in rooms for five people for decades? And there are different artists, writers, the party elite - making barbecues in their dachas?
                When it is forbidden to resign from his place of work, a peasant to leave a collective farm, is this all normal in your opinion?
                Well, yes, equality is in full swing.
                1. Alexey RA
                  Alexey RA 7 January 2021 16: 10
                  +1
                  Quote: Ezoterik
                  When it is forbidden to quit your job

                  Have you read the Decree?
                  3. Deny unauthorized the departure of workers and employees from state, cooperative and public enterprises and institutions, as well as unauthorized transition from one enterprise to another or from one institution to another.

                  Leaving an enterprise and institution or moving from one enterprise to another and from one institution to another can only be allowed by the director of the enterprise or the head of the institution.
                  © Decree of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR of June 26, 1940 "On the transition to an eight-hour working day, to a seven-day working week and on the prohibition of unauthorized departure of workers and employees from enterprises and institutions"

                  The decree was not about the prohibition of dismissal in general. And about the termination of the established practice of unauthorized departures, when workers could simply leave for another plant any day, without even notifying their native enterprise and without submitting an application. And all they could do with them was to fire them for absenteeism. What they, in fact, needed.
                  In this regard, to abolish compulsory dismissal for absenteeism without good reason.
            2. ccsr
              ccsr 5 January 2021 11: 39
              +8
              Quote: Avior
              To buy something inexpensive, but scarce "by pull" - a measure of success?

              Well, it is not necessary to bring everything to pull, if only because all the incomes that the crooks were enriching with then remained in our country. And the country, albeit slowly, but increased its prosperity, in contrast to the fact that now it is being exsanguinated by the constant withdrawal of capital abroad.
              Well, and another interesting document of that time, about which it is useful for some people to know how we lived then.
              1. Avior
                Avior 5 January 2021 11: 51
                -9
                And what does this have to do with the issue under discussion? You would first read what it was about, and then, with your minuses, interfered in someone else's communication: (((
                1. ccsr
                  ccsr 5 January 2021 11: 55
                  +9
                  Quote: Avior
                  And what does this have to do with the issue under discussion?

                  There is nothing to your horror stories, I brought this for those who will believe you how "bad" we then lived because of various speculators.
                  1. Avior
                    Avior 5 January 2021 12: 08
                    -9
                    And why did you bring this to me, and not in the general thread, if it has nothing to do with the question? :(
            3. Stas157
              Stas157 5 January 2021 14: 12
              +13
              Quote: Avior
              Yeah. Is blat and connections a system of values?

              Not all of them were like that! Why present it as a guideline? Our family did not use any kind of pull and there were no connections. And we lived normally without it!

              The apartment was received three times in turn. Is free! Car once and also in turn. We had everything. They definitely didn't feel flawed.
        4. Normal ok
          Normal ok 5 January 2021 13: 17
          +7
          That is why the Soviet elites arranged perestroika in order to convert the semi-official opportunities they had into legal ones. And, this is in all the republics of the USSR without exception.
          1. Vadim237
            Vadim237 8 January 2021 20: 04
            -3
            Post-industrialization with the creation of a private sector had to be created back in the 60s, while just the accelerated industrialization of the country was coming to an end and slowly dismantling the planned economy with the expectation of planning for 5 years ahead, but Brezhnev decided to leave everything as before, in fact the time bomb was planted in the 60s it worked in the 86th when the USSR started having problems with the budget due to the accident at the Chernobyl nuclear power plant and the fall in oil prices by 50% for the currency from which the country bought everything that it lacked from the capitalist countries, the lack of reserves for 86 the country in the bins also played only 427 tons of gold - the local elite later joined in as glasnost gained momentum. In addition, another 120 rogue countries were hanged around their necks for loyalty and they all sucked a lot of money and resources from the USSR for coconut barter.
      2. saigon
        saigon 5 January 2021 09: 04
        +8
        We must try to be honest with ourselves, the restoration of the USSR in its former form is not possible.
        You just need to imagine how many people are shaking at the very mention of the USSR as epilepsy in front of the icons and where these people are.
        The development of Russia at this time is possible only with the adoption of IMPERIAL thinking (not in the form of a blessing of intentions, but in a tough imperial policy in relation to countries). Raising living standards should be at the forefront; industry, agriculture, science and education should be a priority. A TEACHER should be respected and earn good money. Teachers, not crowds of checking and guarding, create future countries (the example of Germany during the Bismarck era). Russia should become an example, a temptation for the surrounding countries, the peoples of these countries, and even local elites can be bought, intimidated, and frankly stifled quietly (modern elites of the surrounding countries will not bring benefits to Russia and therefore are not needed)
        So far, those who destroyed the USSR have not yet died one way - the empire.
        1. paul3390
          paul3390 5 January 2021 09: 46
          +6
          So far, those who destroyed the USSR have not yet died one way - the empire.

          He watched the program "Time"
          read "Kommersant",
          He was horrified and said sadly:
          "You must be led through the desert for another fifty years,
          Until all those who voted die out "..
          (C)
      3. U-58
        U-58 5 January 2021 09: 14
        +5
        Yes, the article is confused. But it also describes the confusion in which we have been living for 29 years.
  • Proton
    Proton 5 January 2021 05: 12
    +13
    I partially agree with the author, but there are moments with which I disagree.
    Why did the author not touch upon the fact that we ourselves and, first of all, the leadership of our country are to blame for the fact that many of our former fellow citizens now look at us as enemies?
    You need to start with yourself, first of all.
    1. Vladimir_2U
      Vladimir_2U 5 January 2021 07: 03
      -4
      Quote: Proton
      that we ourselves and, first of all, the leadership of our country are to blame for the fact that many of our former fellow citizens now look at us as enemies?
      What's so interesting? Did you come to the conditional "Uzbeks" and spit on pilaf?
      1. Proton
        Proton 5 January 2021 07: 12
        +13
        Those. spoiled relations with practically ALL the former republics - it turns out that they are the only ones to blame and the vile State Department?
        I was in Mongolia not very long ago. They honestly say - you (Russia) betrayed us, we were ready to continue working with you. Now companies from the USA, Japan and China are working there with might and main.
        1. Vladimir_2U
          Vladimir_2U 5 January 2021 07: 37
          +1
          Quote: Proton
          They honestly say - you (Russia) betrayed us, we were ready to continue working with you.
          Minimizing work and betraying, insulting or somehow deceiving, are completely different things.
          Quote: Proton
          Those. spoiled relations with almost ALL former republics
          These relations, despite all sorts of indulgences and preferences from the leadership of the Russian Federation, spoiled the so-called. former republics, it is strange that this is news to you. Or for you to remove from the neck an outspoken and rather arrogant kept woman, who is frankly looking to the side, is to ruin the relationship? Then of course.
          1. paul3390
            paul3390 5 January 2021 09: 56
            +9
            These relations, despite all sorts of indulgences and preferences from the leadership of the Russian Federation, spoiled the so-called. former republics, it is strange that this is news to you. Or for you to remove from the neck an outspoken and rather arrogant kept woman, who is frankly looking to the side, is to ruin the relationship? Then of course.


            We must honestly admit that in the national question, the Soviet government, alas, plowed a lot .. Of course, with the best intentions, but we know the result. It is impossible to forcibly drag peoples that are at best at the stage of early feudalism, or even a tribal system in general, by the scruff of the neck straight into socialism. Everyone must go their own way. You can and should help to go through it, but to go instead - will not work ...

            And this must be clearly understood by us, the builders of the USSR. 2.1 In order not to run into the same rake again ... The new socialist homeland must be arranged somehow differently. Otherwise, we will put freeloaders on our necks again, who despise us for our help and consider us their slaves. And those who are not going to go to any socialism .. On the contrary, they are corrupting it with all their might.

            In general - for some reason few people discuss this topic, although - it is very important. The role of the mentality of the national republics in the decomposition of the socialist perception of the world in the RSFSR ... Central Asia with its golim feudalism, the Caucasus with its tribal system, westernism with its dense ragul, and so on and so on ..
    2. rocket757
      rocket757 5 January 2021 07: 59
      +3
      Quote: Proton
      You need to start with yourself, first of all

      That's right, you have to start with yourself.
      Well, let's start ... but how? What to do? Who to follow or what needs to be created, what would unite those who want, are ready to go?
      Questions, questions ...
      1. Proton
        Proton 5 January 2021 08: 18
        +12
        I understand your questions.
        If on the scale of Russia - all these questions are for those whom we elect as power.
        If, on the scale of my family and myself, there is less to deceive and lie, more benefit to my family and friends, trying to do my job is not very bad.
        Let me give you an example - I am driving my car, next to a friend, behind his son. The comrade checks his pockets, finds an empty pack of cigarettes, opens the window and throws it out of the window as he goes. I didn't even have time to say a word. I say - "Dima, now you threw the rubbish out the window with your son. I think this is not right." After about 5 minutes, he thanked me for this example.
        We went with friends on a river rafting. Stopping overnight, they collected not only their own garbage, but also the garbage of "forgetful" tourists.
        This is just a small part of where to start, where to go, etc.
        Yours!
        1. rocket757
          rocket757 5 January 2021 08: 30
          -2
          So we DIDN'T LITTLE before, cleaned up after others, we had to explain the most ... uncivilized one, that this should not be done.
          We and them were taught in the same way, BUT, it was good for someone, but someone let it go deaf ears.
          I didn’t see what they teach differently now, in general, but this is not enough to make our life worthy.
          We need to do more, but how, where to start?
          1. Proton
            Proton 5 January 2021 08: 50
            +9
            I gave the example of garbage as SMALL, but part of our life.
            If you are interested in a big step in the life of any person, lie and deceive less.
            As the Chinese proverb says, "The path of ten thousand li begins with the first step."
            Thank you for the discussion, I will not be able to continue in the near future. As a family we go to visit friends.
            Good luck in the New Year!
            1. rocket757
              rocket757 5 January 2021 08: 55
              +4
              Everything big is built from small!
              Mega projects, too, begin with the first words of justification, with the first line on a Whatman paper (now on a computer monitor).
              We, adults, who have seen a lot, probably understand a lot ... but now is such a moment when it is NECESSARY that something great that will unite us!
              It was nice to talk soldier
          2. frog
            frog 5 January 2021 10: 12
            +1
            So we DIDN'T LARGE before

            Excuse me, but WE are who? And when BEFORE? In the era of the sickle, I traveled around the country, about the fact that "they did not litter", let's say, there are questions ...
            We and them were taught the same way

            Well, yes, they did. And then, leaving school, the child saw the real. And, a little older, I saw him at school. And a lot of problems grew out of this very, sorry, doublethink. When from the podium and on TV - one thing, but in life a little more.
            I'm not talking about those who disagree with you, but, to be honest, now it's just a more cynical version of the same union, in many ways. As a result, of the two messages, a significant mass of people choose the one that is closer. And while it will be so - all the talk about the so-called. a just society and everything like that are utopian tales. To improve digestion ....
            1. rocket757
              rocket757 5 January 2021 10: 51
              +4
              Quote: frog
              Excuse me, but WE are who? And when BEFORE?

              WE are those who did not litter before, did not litter now.
              BEFORE, from the moment WE ourselves began to be responsible for our actions, more than half a century already.
              Was lit / not littered ... it was before, is now. Everything depends on people, residents ... also on the amount of what can be littered. Now there is a lot more garbage, for objective reasons, you yourself understand this.

              Quote: frog
              Well, yes, they did. And then, leaving school, the child saw the real.

              Someone changed the existing realities, and many were brought up so thoroughly that the person did not change fundamentally ... if you look closely, some are looking for an urn where there is a lot of garbage around and so scattered around.
              Quote: frog
              , now - just a more cynical version of the same union, in many ways

              Black, there is black, white, there is white both then and now .... embellish, again, always.
              But, in principle, it is impossible to compare then and now.
              1. frog
                frog 5 January 2021 11: 19
                -2
                WE are those who did not litter before, did not litter now.

                That is, there are people who litter then and litter now? (If anything - a joke)) Oddly enough, there are a lot of acquaintances who were born later than the death of the person under discussion, but not littering. As then, this depends on the family in the first place. As then, some shit, others - even someone else's will be removed. This is the difference between then and now, alas, no. IMHO, the stump is light
                Black, there is black, white, there is white both then and now .... embellish, again, always.

                That's about what I'm talking about repeat The late Belovodye was not, from the word at all. Of course, there was a lot of "tasty" in it, and there declarations for ... sociality)) were much more consistent ... On the other hand, taking into account the mess that was going on then, its collapse was quite logical. I can agree that this was not the only way out, but .... Let's just say, the most simple .... I have a friend, a classic hereditary proletarian. who worked in those years at a famous factory .... And he tells a lot about what and how it was there. About drunkenness in the workplace, marriage in the name of a plan, theft, and so on ... However, in all the troubles Labeled wink And he is not at all in business here ... And all attempts to explain that there were millions like him, and Gorby alone - into the air ...
                And attempts, sorry, to save the Union would not like many. I don’t know about the majority, but many. Because you would have to cut and shred again, as they say, "live", like a surgeon cuts ....
                But, in principle, it is impossible to compare then and now.

                In some ways, yes, in some respects .... yes, the same thing, only the surroundings have changed. Again, it’s not true in the final instance - purely IMHO winked How then a breakthrough of funds went to hz. where (with the required percentage of cut), and now it leaves. As then the real efficiency of the economy left much to be desired, so now ... As then one thing poured from the TV, and in real life - a completely different matter, so now.
                1. rocket757
                  rocket757 5 January 2021 15: 03
                  +2
                  Quote: frog
                  Oddly enough, there are a lot of acquaintances who were born later than the death of the subject, but not littering.

                  I wrote that now ALSO nobody is taught to litter anywhere, just the opposite ... someone remembered, learned, just like then !!!
                  Quote: frog
                  Let's just say, the most simple ... I have a friend, a classic hereditary proletarian. who worked in those years at a famous factory ...

                  In those years I served, worked, traveled all over the COUNTRY and in some places else ... there is something to compare with. What your acquaintance told you was ... in civilian production more than in military.
                  There was something else, really shock work and enthusiasm of young and not very young ... there were all kinds of things.

                  Quote: frog
                  How then a breakthrough of funds went to hz. where (with the required percentage of cut), and now it leaves.

                  There were spheres, next to which the criminals and some others, were always spinning / feeding .... but this should be considered separately.

                  Quote: frog
                  As then the real efficiency of the economy left much to be desired, so now ...

                  And this should also be considered point by point ... although in the end, some decisions, conditions, rules, hindered the development of productive forces and, as a result, production efficiency!
                  I myself went through at least five companies to raise, improve, intensify, and so on, so on, and all this was in the military-industrial complex, in technologically complex industries!
                  I had a chance to visit VDNKh, they presented their product to the Minister of Electronic Industry Kolesnikov ...
                  Quote: frog
                  However, the Marked One is to blame for all the troubles

                  Blame, undoubtedly, BUT, he is not alone ... in the list of guilty and WE are ALL who then remained to sit, stand, lie aside ...
                  1. frog
                    frog 5 January 2021 17: 35
                    0
                    From that and it, that it was there ... in different ways, and we are all to blame, someone more, someone less ... And he would not have held out in this form for long, like do not cool ..... And change .... Who and what? Even now, many do not want to understand that the percentage ... ... of ambiguity in the union went off scale ...
                2. Unknown
                  Unknown 5 January 2021 15: 43
                  +5
                  Quote: frog
                  but .... Let's just say, the most simple .... I have a friend, a classic hereditary proletarian. who worked in those years at a famous factory .... And he tells a lot about what and how it was there. About drunkenness in the workplace, marriage in the name of a plan, theft and so on ... However, Markedy is to blame for all the troubles. Gorby alone - into the air ...
                  ........ Don't just talk about hereditary and other things, you can tell anything, especially over a glass. I am not a hereditary proletarian, and I did not work at a well-known plant, but I worked at a trawl fleet ship repair base for 15 years, and I don’t need to tell fables about drunkenness at work. Drunkenness at work was not welcome, from the word at all. To say that they did not drink means to lie, but they were also punished for it severely, they could under the article, or they could forcibly send LTP, at one point from production, not to mention the deprivation of all bonuses 13 - salaries and other payments. Queue for housing, car, etc. And another thing, where you work also means a lot, a cool turner, welder or locksmith cannot afford to give up at the workplace, a lot depends on his work, drunkenness on the ship's rise and launch, in general, under the article can fail, you work with people. In the USSR, they fought against drunkenness, and did not drive them, as with a hunchback in the underground, and in apartments. After work you can afford it, there is nothing terrible. In my production, it made no sense to drive the plan, the steamers were fishing, poor quality repairs could turn into a tragedy. There were also subscriptions, everyone wanted to get more, so they were everywhere, but there was also an article for such things, and the masters were even imprisoned for this. Only now, you can plunder, plunder, and get 10 years - of course! Such options were not rolled out in the Union.
                  1. ccsr
                    ccsr 5 January 2021 17: 23
                    +2
                    Quote: Unknown
                    Drinking at work was not welcome, from the word at all. To say that they did not drink means to lie, but they were also punished for it severely, they could under the article, or they could forcibly send LTP, at one point from production, not to mention the deprivation of all bonuses 13 - salaries and other payments.

                    Particularly scary was the movement in the queue for the apartment, if I flew drunk - they put it at the end, if after that they were not fired under the article. Therefore, it was more often not young people who applied, but those who no longer expected any benefits from the enterprise, and even then with fear of losing the entire 13th.
                    Quote: Unknown
                    There were also subscriptions, everyone wanted to get more, so they were everywhere, but there was also an article for such things, and the masters were even imprisoned for this.

                    Everything is correct, and it was, and the heads of the shops could fly out of office for this. But sometimes, due to the fact that the plan was fulfilled ahead of time, and did not want to reduce prices, they deliberately stretched the release of products for the whole month in order to portray how difficult it was for them to fulfill the plan. Still sometimes the first week of the month they played the fool and did not strain, but then everyone caught up. In a word, our people, too, were quite fond of inventions, and knew how to rub points in with the rationers when the question concerned a change or revision of prices.
                    1. Alexey RA
                      Alexey RA 7 January 2021 16: 15
                      -1
                      Quote: ccsr
                      But sometimes, due to the fact that the plan was fulfilled ahead of time, and did not want to reduce prices, they deliberately stretched the release of products for the whole month in order to portray how difficult it was for them to fulfill the plan.

                      Uh-huh ... because everyone knew that the most honorable reward for overfulfillment of the plan was an increase in production rates. smile
                      We sat drinking at random
                      "Maderu", "starku", "St. John's wort",
                      And suddenly we are all called into the slaughter, to one:
                      We have a Stakhanovite, a Gaganovist,
                      Zagladovets - and it is necessary,
                      So that he was overwhelmed.

                      He is a former junior officer
                      He was given to us as an example,
                      He was like a young pioneer - always ready -
                      And here he is right from the ship
                      Came to give the country coal, -
                      But today, apparently, he messed up some firewood.

                      We went down to the drift, and the former convict -
                      A person at high risk is
                      He said: "The trouble for us is for all, for all the same:
                      We’ll dig it out - it’s again
                      Will begin to fulfill the three norms,
                      It will start to give the country coal - and to us Khan.

                      So, you brothers do not try,
                      And we’ll work with coolness -
                      One for all and all for one".
                      ... he served in Tallinn under Stalin -
                      Now lies heaped up -
                      We humanly feel sorry for him ...
                      © Vysotsky
                      1. ccsr
                        ccsr 7 January 2021 18: 08
                        +1
                        Quote: Alexey RA
                        Uh-huh ... because everyone knew that the most honorable reward for overfulfillment of the plan was an increase in production rates.

                        Sorry, but you are generally aware of who the engineers for labor rates, taxis, how they worked and how we differed from the Western countries in this respect?
                        I also love Vysotsky's songs, but these are still works of art, and real life at enterprises was much more complicated.
                  2. frog
                    frog 5 January 2021 17: 33
                    0
                    But how can I tell you, dear .... about the fight against drunkenness ..... In different ways, let's just say, it was .... When the team in full force after dinner hangs on a raised cart and the crane operator refuses to work with these freaks? Weekly .... The railway, if sho ... As for the harsh cars, it depends on where and how .... Theoretically, it was all, practically the same ..... In different ways .... it was .. .... And how where it was - I can imagine quite well, although the stump is bright, not everywhere. And yes, for the attributed million tons of cotton, how was the prominent Leninist punished? Can you tell me? However, I will not argue with you, because there is no point. Good luck in the new year!))
                    1. Unknown
                      Unknown 5 January 2021 20: 17
                      +2
                      Quote: frog
                      But how can I tell you, dear .... about the fight against drunkenness ..... In different ways, let's just say, it was .... When the team in full force after dinner hangs on a raised cart and the crane operator refuses to work with these freaks? Weekly .... The railway, if sho ... As for the harsh cars, it depends on where and how .... Theoretically, it was all, practically the same ..... In different ways .... it was .. .... And how where it was - I can imagine quite well, although the stump is bright, not everywhere. And yes, for the attributed million tons of cotton, how was the prominent Leninist punished? Can you tell me?
                      Could you tell me which brigade is drunk after dinner? It also accounted for Zh.D. load the forest to our base, and I will tell you drunk slingers did not come across at all. You work with people, you do not work like that, you can easily ditch, what are you talking about! Weekly - I don't believe it! Not the head of the station, nor the foreman will go for it, it is more expensive for himself, no one wants to wind up time for such cases. As for the attributed million, although there were Gorbachev's times, and Soviet justice was no longer what it was, they got what they deserved ... Investigations into the Uzbek case continued until 1989. Several "high-profile" arrests were made, including those arrested and then sentenced: to capital punishment - the former Minister of the Cotton Industry of Uzbekistan V. Usmanov, the head of the OBKhSS of the Bukhara region A. Muzafarov; to different terms of imprisonment: Leonid Brezhnev's son-in-law Yuri M. Churbanov, First Secretary of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of Uzbekistan I.B. Usmankhodzhaev, former secretaries of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the republic A. Salimov, E. Aitmuratov and R. Abdullaev, first secretaries of regional committees: Tashkent - Musakhanov, Fergana - Umarov, Namangan - N. Radjabov, Karakalpak - K. Kamalov, Bukhara - Abduvakhid Karimov and I. Jabbarov, who replaced him, Surkhandarya - Abdukhalik Karimov, former chairman of the Council of Ministers of the republic N. D. Khudayberdyev, head of the Papal agroindustrial associations named after V.I. Lenin of Namangan region A. Adylov, generals of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the republic Yakhyaev, Norov, Norbutaev, Jamalov, Satarov, Sabirov, Colonel Begelman and so on. Some defendants in the investigation committed suicide (K. Ergashev, G. Davydov, R. Gaipov
                      1. frog
                        frog 5 January 2021 21: 01
                        +1
                        Yes, it's easy with the brigade, a carriage depot, a passenger carriage repair shop, "lifting". And not only there, in fact, or do you still think that I am interested in slandering the deceased? So he is toyvo, but about the dead ...
                        Maybe I can tell you how the alcohol got to the factories? Or do you already know everything?)))
                        For "high-profile cases" .... so, sorry, when did it happen and when did it happen? And if the power had not changed? And yet I am ashamed to ask - and there they immediately attributed a millionaire? Or little by little they stuffed their hand with smaller amounts? That's just it, that all high-profile cases happened after epic punctures or a change of power ... And so, quietly, systemically, so to speak ...
                        Once again, I'm not going to throw mud at the deceased union. As well as creating an icon out of it. He was different, and it was different there ... And his fate was logical. without real changes and not always pleasant, it was logical and ended. And finally)))) if I suddenly say bad things about the union - this does not mean at all that I hate him and I like the new state ..... state. In addition to zero and one, there are intermediate figures ...
                      2. Unknown
                        Unknown 5 January 2021 21: 57
                        +1
                        Quote: frog
                        Yes, it's easy with the brigade, a carriage depot, a passenger carriage repair shop, "lifting". And not only there, in fact, or do you still think that I am interested in slandering the deceased? So he is toyvo, but about the dead ...
                        Another question is how, in general, the cars were repaired, if all the locksmiths were drinking weekly? For the sake of interest, try drinking for two weeks, how will you work afterwards? About the Union, or nothing, or good, that's how it sounds.
                        Quote: frog
                        Maybe I can tell you how the alcohol got to the factories? Or do you already know everything?
                        Yes, it's not a problem to carry, it's a problem to drink on the sly, so that no one guesses, and not to spoil for drunkenness, otherwise the turner on drunk business did not give a bronze blank in the machine, it is porous, tore it out with a chisel, and got it straight on the forehead, though in passing ... Tell me what happened next? He remained alive and after all the consequences, he swore to use at work.
                        Quote: frog
                        For "high-profile cases" .... so, sorry, when did it happen and when did it happen? And if the power had not changed? And yet I am ashamed to ask - and there they immediately attributed a millionaire? Or little by little they stuffed their hand with smaller amounts? That's just it, that all high-profile cases happened after epic punctures or a change of power ... And so, quietly, systemically, so to speak ...
                        The case has been untwisted for a long time, and even the power has changed ... three times, Brezhnev, Andropov, Chernenko, it came to what it should have come ....... The first attempts to investigate cases of corruption and bribery among high-ranking leaders in the Uzbek SSR refer to mid 1970s. So, back in 1975, the Chairman of the Supreme Court of the Uzbek SSR was brought to justice. Then YS Nasriddinova, the chairman of the Council of Nationalities of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR in 1970-1974, came to the attention of the law enforcement agencies. In 1979, the investigation of this case was entrusted to T. Kh. Gdlyan [1982]. In early 6, an investigation of the "cotton case" itself was launched: the KGB administration for Moscow and the Moscow region arrested several leaders of cotton ginning associations of Uzbekistan and directors of cotton plants on the territory of the RSFSR. After a series of arrests made in early 1984, in June V. I. Kalinichenko was charged with the investigation ... And so on until 1984. But you can name one case at the present time, brought to the real terms of the defendants of this level. For example Serdyukov and Vasilyeva?
                      3. frog
                        frog 5 January 2021 22: 10
                        -1
                        [Quote Another question, how were the cars repaired in general if all the locksmiths were drinking weekly? For the sake of interest, try drinking for two weeks, how will you work afterwards? About the Union, or nothing, or good, so the continuation sounds.] [/ Quote]
                        And that's how they were repaired .... Besides, I didn't say that the whole depot was boozing)) As for a drink for a couple of weeks - alas, not to me. I do not have this dignity .... As for the Union, about which ..... The option proposed by Odoevsky is much more .... De mortuis seu veritas, seu nihil
                        Yes, it's not a problem to carry, the problem is to drink on the sly, so that no one will guess, and not to spoil for drunkenness

                        Well, as I said, it happened in different ways. And they screwed up and hammered the bolts (CHSH, sober)))) It depends where and how ...
                        The case has been unfolding for a long time, and even the government has changed ..

                        Yes, I know how it was there. And has corruption disappeared in the Uzbek SSR? Together with the postscripts? And the Union ... As in other republics ... As well as Southeast Asia, which began to fight this case .... I think you remember how it ended there? .....
                        Once again, I have no interest in denigrating the deceased, but singing panegyrics to him too .... strange. He did not die from the marked ???
                      4. Unknown
                        Unknown 6 January 2021 07: 20
                        0
                        [quote = frog] And that's how they were repaired .... Besides, I didn't say that the whole depot was boozing)) [/ quote] The team is a rather big team, and at work it is very noticeable. The quality of the repair is also checked by a group with engineers, tea not carts are repaired, but cars. But with that I understand you, everything is clear.
                        [quote = frog] Well, as I said, it happened in different ways. And they screwed up and hammered the bolts (CHSH, sober)))) It depends where and how .. [/ quote] All the same, as a locksmith, it is not clear to me how, makar, they hammer the bolts with a sledgehammer? If the bolt does not go along the thread, then you have to be wooden up to the very ass, hammer it with a sledgehammer, any locksmith will tell you. There are ways for it to go along the thread. And this, it happened in different ways, implies your almost always. The idea is clear.
                        [quote = frog] Yes, I know how it was there. And has corruption disappeared in the Uzbek SSR? Together with the postscripts? And the Union. [If you know, then you don’t need this, but how it was there, but as he wrote. Answering a question to a question is a distinctive feature of one nation. Don't do that.
                        [quote = frog] Once again, I have no interest in denigrating the deceased, but singing eulogies to him too .... strange. He did not die of the marked ??? [/ quote] You denigrate the deceased and do it subtly, with such a trick, in different ways it was not everywhere, etc. For information, the personality of one person plays and has played a big role in the fate of the state, it depended on Gorbatov where he would lead the country. I picked up the staff myself. The USSR was not a bad state; there were shortcomings, who did not. It was necessary to fix, not break. Do not break, build, my soul does not ache.
                      5. frog
                        frog 6 January 2021 09: 41
                        -1
                        All-good Lord, of course there are ways. And you can just do everything with your hands. But somehow it didn't work out sometimes, but there was a plan. By the way, with control - about the same. But you are free to believe in your own, who is stopping you))
                        Answering a question to a question depends on the alignment. And as for the nation, it is no worse than others, although not better. And to hang all the dogs on it is very typical repeat
                        For information, the personality of one person plays and has played a big role in the fate of the state, it depended on Gorbatov where he would lead the country.

                        From those to .... On the relevant subjects, the monsters of this case, the Red Book, instilled something completely different to us .... Again, democratic centralism, collegiality, all the cases .... Lied, it turns out? And in fact the party was somewhat different? So maybe the Union was somewhat different, no? otherwise your words are somehow strangely combined and,
                        sorry, "buckets of bolts." Or the same TVs ...
                        With "to break, not to build" - I agree, only, for some reason, the party did not interfere with all this, but somewhere - and headed ... Which confirms the simple thesis ...
                        As for the vilification of the deceased, it was not for nothing that Odoevsky remembered wink
                        With all the achievements, there were more than enough punctures, including strategic ones. And, in the end, even a phenomenal margin of safety and patience could not cope with such efforts of guiding and guiding ...
                      6. Unknown
                        Unknown 6 January 2021 15: 01
                        0
                        Quote: frog
                        All-good Lord, of course there are ways. And you can just do everything with your hands. But somehow it didn't work out sometimes, but there was a plan. By the way, with control - about the same. But you are free to believe in your own, who is stopping you))
                        Just don’t, gentlemen, it’s in vain, not to the face. Everything is done by hands, and it may not work out, it's okay in the team there will always be someone who will prompt and help. And OTK it is control, not a knowledgeable person cannot understand. You are also far from hard workers, as I am from musicians, because there is no hearing. No more memories from the cycle ... one proletarian said, etc ... you yourself
                        not a hard worker, I got you through.
                        Quote: frog
                        Answering a question to a question depends on the alignment. And as for the nation, it is no worse than others, although not better. And to hang all the dogs on it is very typical

                        No, it does not depend on the alignment, it always does. For example, I rarely watch TV now, but before often, as a representative of God's chosen nation, they will ask a question, in response two, three questions, like, with your bare hands, you can take a shish. All dogs will not work, but there will be enough left.
                        Quote: frog
                        From those to .... On the relevant subjects, the monsters of this case, the Red Book, instilled something completely different to us .... Again, democratic centralism, collegiality, all the cases .... Lied, it turns out?

                        You see, you regularly attended those same subjects, so you were needed for further career growth. And so I ran next to where there to learn the classics of Marxism-Leninism. The odor of an opportunist is immediately noticeable. Probably also a lecturer from the party?
                        Quote: frog
                        And in fact the party was somewhat different?

                        Here to the very point! Adapt workers, careerists, etc., cadres, by hook or by hook, rushed there, and unfortunately they became too much.
                        Quote: frog
                        So maybe the Union was somewhat different, not

                        But the Union was as it should be. There will be no other, do not allow how to drink.
                      7. frog
                        frog 6 January 2021 16: 32
                        0
                        Hanging all the dogs on the interlocutor, just because he says things that are unpleasant to you - is this, apparently, unlike God's chosen ones, a feature of the God-saved?
                        As for the OTK - you can tell fairy tales to those who did not find those times. I also looked at household appliances that do not work right after the store, and not only at them ...
                        Anyway, good luck, sir. As for another union - h.z. as it is there, most likely will not be. And, for nowadays, it is logical. Because people like you, at best, build something again ... strange. If you build it at all. Because the enthusiasts have been exhausted by your efforts, and the townsfolk will definitely not work hard for everything. Happy New !!
                      8. Lara Croft
                        Lara Croft 6 January 2021 17: 26
                        0
                        Quote: frog
                        Hanging all the dogs on the interlocutor, just because he says things that are unpleasant to you - this, apparently, in contrast to God's chosen ones, feature of God-saved?

                        Yes, the Russians, unlike Israeli Jews, are the God-saved ones ...
                        "Russia is ruled directly by the Lord God. Otherwise, it is impossible to imagine how this state still exists."
                        These words were said by a German; Minich was a Russian field marshal.

                        https://cont.ws/@sansanch/162399
                      9. frog
                        frog 6 January 2021 17: 46
                        -1
                        Yes, the Russians, unlike Israeli Jews, are the God-saved ones ...

                        You might think I strongly oppose laughing I live here like a bum, so I agree with the Tin Woodman ... But apart from hopes, I would like to have a little common sense repeat
                      10. Lara Croft
                        Lara Croft 6 January 2021 17: 58
                        0
                        Quote: frog
                        You might think I strongly oppose laughing

                        Well, okay ...
                  3. Unknown
                    Unknown 6 January 2021 20: 02
                    0
                    Quote: frog
                    Hanging all the dogs on the interlocutor, just because he says things that are unpleasant to you - this, apparently, unlike God's chosen ones, is a feature of God-saved
                    They didn’t hang all the dogs on you, even half of them weren’t .... yet anyway. Your stories are not at all unpleasant to me, where did they get it? They are not new, and they have been telling them for a long time, sometimes adding a fresh line, in the form of a "hereditary proletarian," about the inevitable Russian drunkenness wherever possible, including at work, even under the strict control of the party. Hence the conclusion that they have nothing good , that is, the Russians will not succeed, because they are drunk. Here is a message. There will be no other from the chosen people.
                    Quote: frog
                    As for the OTK - you can tell fairy tales to those who did not find those times. I also looked at household appliances that did not work immediately after the store, and not only on

                    Now you have the opportunity to enjoy, in the promised land, Chinese household appliances, rejoice in the quality!
                    Quote: frog
                    Anyway, good luck, sir. As for another union - h.z. as it is there, most likely will not be. And, for nowadays, it is logical. Because people like you, at best, build something again ... strange. If you build it at all. Because the enthusiasts have been exhausted by your efforts, and the townsfolk will definitely not work hard for everything. Happy New !!

                    And you shalom! Maybe without you, we will succeed. Unlearn, get an education, even make money in the country where he was born, then teach the people of that country how to live under communism, and then quickly change their shoes, as under capitalism, and realizing that people are beginning to understand who is driving, get out of their pockets passport of the promised country, give up the pen lastly, wash away. You see, we have no Rusaks of a second homeland, and we will have no place to go .. We will live here, maybe we will build something, but without your valuable advice.
  • Silhouette
    Silhouette 8 January 2021 11: 20
    0
    Some kind of vague conversation turned out ..... It seems to me due to the fact that the author considers only one side of what happened - the collapse of the USSR state. But there has also been a change in the system, from the socialist to the capitalist. And what was primary and secondary here, or where is the cause and where is the effect - that is the question and where are the answers to many questions. In China, there has also been a change in the system, for a long time no one there builds communism and does not develop the theory of practical implementation of communism. And they did it much earlier than we did - under Deng Xiao Ping. Restoring capitalism is easy, but restoring the Russian Empire is impossible. The Chinese Empire has existed for more than one millennium, and the Russian Empire did not last for 400 years.
  • populist
    populist 5 January 2021 11: 03
    0

    rocket757 (Victor)
    We need to do more, but how, where to start?

    The answer will depend on the goal that you see in front of you. The range of targets is wide enough. Let's take the extreme ones.
    If the goal is to help the janitor (which in itself is also not bad), then the means are known.
    If the goal is to make the government more just, then the matter will be somewhat more complicated. It will be necessary to provide support to the left forces (mainly the Communist Party, but possibly others), to participate in the work of the left forces. hi
    1. rocket757
      rocket757 5 January 2021 15: 10
      +1
      Quote: populist
      If the goal is to make the government more just, then the matter will be somewhat more complicated. It will be necessary to provide support to the left forces (mainly the Communist Party, but possibly others), to participate in the work of the left forces.

      The goal is one ... our people must live with dignity.
      The current system of power, the ruling class, will NEVER be concerned about this! It means that they themselves, through the modernization, replacement of the system .... did not discover anything new, it is not a secret for anyone.
      At the expense of those who hang out next to this power .... in the current state, naf, naf, God save from such guardians.
  • U-58
    U-58 5 January 2021 09: 19
    +3
    To begin with, vote in the elections. That's right, but at least to everyone, so as not to blame later on the intrigues of Ellochka the cannibal, on the intrigues of the only Russia (the only one in the world).
    That is, to popularly elect the power that society deserves at this stage.
    Further, patriotism should be transferred from a moral category to a practical one.
    So, comrade. Serbryakov, you drove to Canada. Yeah, you do not need to act in our cinema. Conquer Hollywood, Bollywood, Zanzibar, if there is a demand for you, but in our country, sorry, move over.
    So, comrade. Sands. Daughter over the hill - for God's sake. Toko you won't be teasing in power now. She's not in your rank.
    So, our dear Olympian Rodnina. Honor to you for the old, but the Duma can't do a damn thing. You drove to America in the 90s. And as the most dashing times passed, I flew in for sweets. And further in the same spirit
    1. rocket757
      rocket757 5 January 2021 09: 30
      +1
      They also voted for this government .... you can talk about the reasons for a long time, but it will still be somewhere nearby, an exact answer, such that it would certainly not be believed.
    2. paul3390
      paul3390 5 January 2021 10: 01
      +3
      That is, to popularly elect the power that society deserves at this stage.

      The classics have long spoken on this topic:

      Only scoundrels or fools can think that the proletariat must first win the majority in elections held under the yoke of the bourgeoisie, under the yoke of wage slavery, and then must win power. This is the height of stupidity or hypocrisy, it is the replacement of the class struggle and revolution with votes under the old system, under the old regime.
      The proletariat wages its class struggle without waiting for a vote to start a strike, although the sympathy of the majority of the working people (and therefore of the majority of the population) is necessary for the full success of a strike. The proletariat is waging its class struggle, overthrowing the bourgeoisie, without waiting for any preliminary (and carried out by the bourgeoisie under its yoke) voting, and the proletariat knows perfectly well that for the success of its revolution, for the successful overthrow of the bourgeoisie, the sympathy of the majority of the working people is certainly necessary (and therefore , and the majority of the population).
      Parliamentary cretins and modern Louis Blanc "demand" a mandatory vote and a mandatory vote by the bourgeoisie to determine this sympathy of the majority of workers. But this is the look of pedants, the dead, or clever deceivers.
      Living life, the history of real revolutions shows that the "sympathy of the majority of the working people" very often cannot be proved by any vote (not to mention the votes made by the exploiters when the exploiter is "equal" with the exploited!). Very often, the "sympathy of the majority of workers" is proved not by votes at all, but by the growth of one of the parties, or the growth of the number of its members.
      1. U-58
        U-58 5 January 2021 11: 03
        0
        Perfectly. You reminded many (I know) very golden words.
        But .... who will go to the barricades?
        So let's do it for now.
        Until the masses of the people (or the generals of Rokhlins) mature ...
        1. paul3390
          paul3390 5 January 2021 11: 17
          +2
          Sidorov saw a large white pear descending from the ceiling. The pear hung very close to the face; dark spots floated before my eyes, my ears were blocked, and suddenly Valkenstein began to sing in a heavy bass:
          And if you hadn't come back
          Who would go ahead?

          “Anyone…” Sidorov said stubbornly with his eyes closed. - Anyone will go ahead ...
          (C)

          I would go. Yes, many would go .. Alas, there is no real violent one yet ..
          1. Polymer
            Polymer 7 January 2021 07: 51
            +1
            Quote: paul3390
            I would go. Yes, many would go .. Alas, there is no real violent one yet ..

            What is needed is not a violent, but a genius of the level of Lenin.
            Something has changed over the past century. For example, humanity has learned what the scientific organization of labor is - and now it is impossible to create a serious production without preliminary study and planning. The same is in politics - even color revolutions are preliminarily developed and planned in certain centers, which can confidently be called scientific. Since these centers are engaged not only in planning specific operations, but also in theoretical developments.
            There is no doubt that the methods and methods of combating the labor movement have long been scientifically substantiated. True, such "scientific achievements" are by no means advertised; rather, on the contrary, they are hidden from the general public.
            Due to these circumstances, it becomes necessary to first develop a theory of class struggle in modern conditions, to understand how to hack the protection system of the existing system. And only then - "to the barricades."
            And now there really is no such genius capable of heading the "main headquarters" of decision-making. And the need for it is long overdue.
            1. paul3390
              paul3390 7 January 2021 10: 33
              0
              the methods of fighting the labor movement have long been scientifically substantiated.

              Yes, they are extremely simple - a heap of the proletariat has been convinced that they are now some kind of creative middle class, sort of like bourgeois too, only small ones. Although in reality it is the idiotic proletariat ..

              And as for a genius - of course it would not hurt, but I'm not sure what in our information world - his arrival is strictly necessary ..
              1. Polymer
                Polymer 7 January 2021 11: 40
                +1
                Quote: paul3390
                kind of like bourgeois too, only small ones. Although in reality it is the idiotic proletariat ..

                A typical substitution of concepts - class affiliation is determined by the ownership of the means of production, and not by the level of income. Unfortunately, capitalism is still winning in the information war.
                Quote: paul3390
                I'm not sure what in our information world - his coming is strictly necessary ..

                On the role of personality in history. In the confrontation between various groups - social, national, etc. - the primary role is played by the degree of their organization. The one who is better organized will win - on what principle the grouping itself is based plays a secondary role. It's all about the degree of organization. So, an organization is, in any case, a pyramid, at the top of which there should be a specific personality, on which the organization of the entire structure depends.
                Decentralized systems also have a place to be, but they, as a rule, are inferior to centralized systems in the degree of organization. And there is no chance for the former to win over the latter.
                1. paul3390
                  paul3390 7 January 2021 11: 57
                  0
                  a pyramid, at the top of which a specific personality should stand, on which the organization of the entire structure depends.

                  The issue is controversial. Collective leadership is also possible. Although - of course, consisting of bright personalities. Avon Bolsheviks in 1917 - Lenin for the population was not at all the sole leader, as it seems to us now. After all, there was Trotsky and Stalin, and many other very popular leaders and military leaders ...
                  1. Polymer
                    Polymer 7 January 2021 12: 10
                    0
                    Quote: paul3390
                    Controversial issue

                    Collegial supreme governing body - there must be no doubt! But this body must also have its own leader - otherwise even three people will never be able to come to an agreement among themselves. Someone, at a certain moment, must say: stop arguing, you have to make a decision! This personality is the top of the pyramid. Another thing is that the conditional MSG should never get to the top. To do this, it will be necessary to develop some kind of protection mechanism against the penetration of such individuals, not only to the very top, but even close to it.
                2. paul3390
                  paul3390 11 January 2021 23: 42
                  0
                  class affiliation is determined by ownership of the means of production, and not by the level of income

                  And here everything is not easy - for example, an IT guy who is maliciously coding for his uncle on his own computer - is he a proletarian or already a bourgeois? After all, he seems to own the means of his production? wink
                  1. Polymer
                    Polymer 11 January 2021 23: 57
                    +1
                    Quote: paul3390
                    is he a proletarian or already a bourgeois?

                    A petty-bourgeois element if it "codes" and implements ready-made and complete software products. If only fragments are more likely a proletarian, since it is not he who does the assembly and implementation. Comp here is just a tool ... well, like a carpenter with his ax. The means of production are not the only ones included.
                  2. paul3390
                    paul3390 12 January 2021 00: 35
                    0
                    Whoa !!! And now there is only one little thing left - to explain this to the proud owner of the ax ... Since, alas, he seriously considers it a means of production and himself a proud bourgeoisie ..
                  3. Polymer
                    Polymer 12 January 2021 06: 27
                    +1
                    It is really very difficult to remake the petty-bourgeois consciousness. In most cases even a face on the asphalt does not help.
                    Once upon a time, 12 years ago, on one of the forums for several days I argued on this topic with a former compatriot who emigrated to Germany. He kept convincing me that he was working only for himself, and not at all "for my uncle," but I tried to convey to him that in modern conditions it is practically impossible if you do not have access to a printing press. He could not convince him, and stopped arguing after he nevertheless revealed what kind of "his business" he had. It turned out - an insurance agent plus Herbalife.
                  4. paul3390
                    paul3390 12 January 2021 10: 45
                    0
                    Abolishing classes means not only driving out the landlords and capitalists - we did this relatively easily - it also means destroying small commodity producers, but they cannot be driven out, they cannot be suppressed, we must get along with them, they can (and must) be remade, reeducated only for a very long time, slow, careful organizational work ... The dictatorship of the proletariat is a stubborn struggle, bloody and bloodless, violent and peaceful, military and economic, pedagogical and administrative, against the forces and traditions of the old society.

                    And who will re-educate them, except you and me?
                  5. Polymer
                    Polymer 12 January 2021 15: 35
                    0
                    Quote: paul3390
                    And who will re-educate them, except you and me?

                    I agree completely and completely! hi
  • Pessimist22
    Pessimist22 5 January 2021 05: 12
    +13
    I think that the bourgeoisie, which is currently in power in Russia, is unlikely to surrender power, and there is no one to give it to, there is no other organized force in our country, only they are acting together and purposefully. But if this continues, the population decline, economic recession, sanctions, then I can't even imagine what will happen in 20 years. The modern government of Russia cares only about their profits, and the people in a rigid economic framework, in which they cannot increase in size, and I believe only an increase in population can give economic growth in the future.
    1. apro
      apro 5 January 2021 06: 04
      -3
      Quote: Pessimist22
      and I think only an increase in population can give economic growth in the future.

      By itself, population growth in an industrial society speaks of the well-being of the people, but population growth without a sound economic policy aimed at improving life is the path to problems in the future. What is the point in increasing if there is nothing to occupy the population? Limit consumption? Without access to education "medicine" limitation in self-realization
    2. Ross xnumx
      Ross xnumx 5 January 2021 06: 19
      +8
      Quote: Pessimist22
      I think that the bourgeoisie that is currently in power in Russia

      After that, it becomes incomprehensible how this "bourgeoisie", who crawled out of the ranks of the CPSU and rewrote the registers of ownership of themselves, continues to keep party cards ("is lying somewhere in the table") ...
      belay
    3. evgen1221
      evgen1221 5 January 2021 16: 15
      +1
      Pessimist22 and where did you see the bourgeoisie in power in the Russian Federation? The bourgeoisie implies that initially she created something herself, the son expanded and the great-grandson did not squander the brothels, then it turned into a corporation. Where did we have it? The conditional zitspresident came from the former party bosses, took everything they did not build for himself and live as long as the big daddies are in power. This is called a plowman and a thief and not the bourgeoisie. Whoever can really do something in the country himself is very quickly dumped into jurisdiction abroad and not from the good life and business climate, but from the system. And where is there to wait for development. Only negative breakouts.
  • Virus-free crown
    Virus-free crown 5 January 2021 05: 14
    +12
    Until the MAIN principle of socialism "From each according to his ability, to each according to his work" is put into practice, there is no need to dream of any new USSR ... crying Kosygin tried in the late 1960s - early 1970s - but he was not given ...

    There is a saying - "Doctor, heal yourself" - so vooot ... until Russia itself becomes a socialist state - you can safely forget about the new updated USSR 2.0 ... oh ... sorry ...
    1. apro
      apro 5 January 2021 05: 59
      +1
      Quote: Corona without virus
      Kosygin tried in the late 1960s - early 1970s - but he was not given ...

      The Kosygin reform, the first nail in the coffin of the USSR, profit is a capitalistic concept, and is unacceptable in the Soviet economy.
      1. Virus-free crown
        Virus-free crown 5 January 2021 10: 34
        -1
        Quote: apro
        Quote: Corona without virus
        Kosygin tried in the late 1960s - early 1970s - but he was not given ...

        The Kosygin reform, the first nail in the coffin of the USSR, profit is a capitalistic concept, and is unacceptable in the Soviet economy.

        The Kosygin reform is precisely the principle of socialism "From each according to his ability, to each according to his work"

        after all, already in the 1970s, a stupid situation arose when, for example, a good turner in the piecework at a state plant according to the plan could conditionally make 100 parts per day according to the plan - and receive conditionally 10 rubles for this, then already the eleventh part cost 1 overhead ruble ... and after lunch, instead of a highly skilled turner sharpening the details, he suffered garbage, because he didn't want to sell his labor for a penny ... and they began to drink too much ... and the country really needed his parts. ... but ... his work was not appreciated ... work for the good of the Motherland ...
        1. apro
          apro 5 January 2021 12: 13
          +2
          Do you understand the principle of reform? To give more rights to enterprises. To share a part of the profit at the enterprise. To give the right to choose what to produce and for what price. Then the question arises ... why a plan? Why ministries?
          1. Virus-free crown
            Virus-free crown 5 January 2021 12: 24
            -3
            Quote: apro
            Do you understand the principle of reform? To give more rights to enterprises. To share a part of the profit at the enterprise. To give the right to choose what to produce and for what price. Then the question arises ... why a plan? Why ministries?

            As I understand it !!! laughing At the same time, an attempt to transfer the state plan of the USSR to computer software, which made it possible to set five-year plans with a reliability of 98+ percent, to predict which enterprise to produce what in what volumes, etc., etc., completely failed))) You said correctly - the ministries were deprived of the most important lever - quotas on raw materials ... there were soooo kickbacks))) and there ministries had soooo power ... so they strangled the Kosygin reform, that the plan of transferring the state plan of the USSR on "computer rails" crying
            1. apro
              apro 5 January 2021 12: 32
              +2
              Quote: Corona without virus
              As I understand it !!!

              So you are a supporter of market relations ..
              Quote: Corona without virus
              You rightly said - ministries were deprived of the most important lever -

              But in the planned system, the backbone of the Soviet economy. It is the essence of socialism. We followed a simple path. The introduction of capitalistic principles.
              1. Virus-free crown
                Virus-free crown 5 January 2021 12: 55
                -2
                Quote: apro
                Quote: Corona without virus
                As I understand it !!!

                So you are a supporter of market relations ..
                Quote: Corona without virus
                You rightly said - ministries were deprived of the most important lever -

                But in the planned system, the backbone of the Soviet economy. It is the essence of socialism. We followed a simple path. The introduction of capitalistic principles.

                You still did not understand anything about the Kosygin reform, and about the plan to transfer the state plan to "computer rails" ... crying

                Just imagine ... already in the mid-1970s, a computer would calculate how much each family, plant and country as a whole needs for the next five years ... would print an action plan on paper ... and ministries would turn into ordinary clerks. ..they are given tasks - they carry it out - for the good of the Motherland !!!

                Well, about "capitalist principles" - I gave the simplest example))) if, within the framework of the plan, a turner sharpens 1 part for 10 rubles, then why will he earn 1 rubles for the next part that has been completed? where is the logic????!!! Does he invest less of his labor ???? am
                1. apro
                  apro 5 January 2021 13: 06
                  -2
                  Quote: Corona without virus
                  You still did not understand anything about the Kosygin reform, and about the plan to transfer the state plan to "computer rails" ...

                  Got it. These are two different plans.
                  1. Virus-free crown
                    Virus-free crown 5 January 2021 13: 16
                    0
                    Quote: apro
                    Quote: Corona without virus
                    You still did not understand anything about the Kosygin reform, and about the plan to transfer the state plan to "computer rails" ...

                    Got it. These are two different plans.

                    from my own experience))) in grades 9-10 of the school on Tuesdays we had the CPC - educational production practice, in practice I worked in my specialty that I studied - a car mechanic))) 2 hours on Tuesdays we had a theory, then 4 hours of practice at an auto repair shop, where zilas 131 were actually repaired in hundreds ... I repaired brake pads ... the plan was to restore 50 brake pads in 4 hours, for each I was paid 5 kopecks))) it worked out in a day according to plan 2 s half a ruble, I received an average of 10 rubles per month for practice good but starting from 51 pads I got 1 kopeck, at 5 !!!!!!!!! times less))) Well, how do you think, how much did I overfulfill the plan ?! ))) and so it was with us there all the time (((((starting from us high school students in practice, ending with high-class turners of the 6th grade), who, when he suffered garbage, turned a metal ball, and if you look into the hole in this ball - there was a full-fledged metal ball of a smaller diameter, which rolled freely inside a large ball - and this is from one piece !!!!)))))))
                    1. apro
                      apro 5 January 2021 13: 26
                      0
                      I heard it somewhere ... how little the Reds paid the workers ...
                      A plan for that and a plan, what would be needed, no more and no less.
                      1. Virus-free crown
                        Virus-free crown 5 January 2021 13: 36
                        -3
                        Quote: apro
                        Somewhere I heard it ...how little the reds paid the workers ...
                        A plan for that and a plan, what would be needed, no more and no less.

                        no-no-no))) only the laziest worker received 400 rubles a month (roughly - 3 salaries of an engineer) and 600 rubles a month - this was the average salary at our auto repair shop))) for example - my mother is a doctor for two the rates received 220 rubles, the father of the senior mechanic - 180))

                        only they could repair twice as many zilki here ... if they paid normally for overfulfilling the plan ...
                      2. apro
                        apro 5 January 2021 13: 43
                        +2
                        But the result of this baltology is today clearly visible. They thought that they always pay little. They do not appreciate it.
                        The Reds sought to create highly efficient production through automation, mechanization, and advanced methods of labor organization.
                      3. Virus-free crown
                        Virus-free crown 5 January 2021 13: 48
                        -1
                        Quote: apro
                        But the result of this baltology is today clearly visible. They thought that they always pay little. They do not appreciate it.
                        The Reds sought to create highly efficient production through automation, mechanization, and advanced methods of labor organization.

                        my 5 kopecks for the restored block - this was student money))) and so our Teacher taught us and who restored them for 10 years - on the same work front - he did not receive less than 500 rubles a month)))) on average it was every second there are about several tons of these pads for restoration, I don’t want to restore them, they brought to us for repairs zilka almost from the next 1000 km in the district)))

                        the desire was in words, unfortunately (((no matter how regrettable it is to admit, although I myself am a fan of the USSR version 2.0 where everything is arranged according to the main principle of socialism drinks
                      4. apro
                        apro 5 January 2021 18: 19
                        +1
                        Quote: Corona without virus
                        the desire was in words, unfortunately

                        That is, in the USSR, robotic lines were not created. CNC machines. Automated production cycles ???
                      5. Virus-free crown
                        Virus-free crown 5 January 2021 19: 00
                        -1
                        Quote: apro
                        Quote: Corona without virus
                        the desire was in words, unfortunately

                        That is, in the USSR, robotic lines were not created. CNC machines. Automated production cycles ???

                        was created of course good
                        but the most important principle of socialism did not dare "From each according to his ability, to each according to his work" (((
                      6. apro
                        apro 5 January 2021 20: 12
                        -2
                        Quote: Corona without virus
                        but the most important principle did not dare

                        And what were the labor and salary departments doing? They stretched their legs over the clothes.
            2. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 7 January 2021 16: 23
              0
              Quote: apro
              I heard it somewhere ... how little the Reds paid the workers ...
              A plan for that and a plan, what would be needed, no more and no less.

              Tell this to a comrade from the regional committee. And to a comrade from the ministry. Which at the end of each reporting period, almost with a knife at their throats, require overfulfillment of the plan - for a beautiful report upstairs.
              But they don't want to pay for extra work. To each according to work, Yes...

              It would be especially good to hear about to have as much as necessary. not more and not less from the mouth of the first secretary of the Ryazan Regional Committee of the CPSU Alexei Larionov. For the sake of beautiful figures, a man killed the agriculture of an entire region, not disdaining the seizure of even the personal livestock of collective farmers.
  • Crowe
    Crowe 5 January 2021 06: 36
    +18
    until Russia itself becomes a socialist state

    It does not seem that it will be in the near future. Let the Soviet times were considered stagnant, but in comparison with today's capitalism, people understand that there was nothing more stable than that stagnation. The popularity of the socialist system grows in proportion to the decline in the standard of living in the country. Many are beginning to understand that the previous level life was an order of magnitude higher.Despite a certain shortage of goods, Soviet workers had the right to free housing, study and medical care.
    The products manufactured in the USSR met strict standards. Food and goods were of the highest quality.
    Nowadays, the concept of a deficit does not exist. But not everyone can afford to purchase quality food and clothing. In the Soviet Union, every family, planning a budget, had the opportunity to set aside funds for tomorrow.
    1. Virus-free crown
      Virus-free crown 5 January 2021 11: 04
      +3
      Quote: Crowe
      until Russia itself becomes a socialist state

      It does not seem that it will be in the near future. Let the Soviet times were considered stagnant, but in comparison with today's capitalism, people understand that there was nothing more stable than that stagnation. The popularity of the socialist system grows in proportion to the decline in the standard of living in the country. Many are beginning to understand that the previous level life was an order of magnitude higher.Despite a certain shortage of goods, Soviet workers had the right to free housing, education and medical care.
      The products manufactured in the USSR met strict standards. Food and goods were of the highest quality.
      Nowadays, the concept of a deficit does not exist. But not everyone can afford to purchase quality food and clothing. In the Soviet Union, every family, planning a budget, had the opportunity to set aside funds for tomorrow.

      during the time of "stagnation", at least in my city, the principle of social equality was observed)))) that the cleaner, that the mayor of the city received Finnish headsets from the back of the store))) everyone was equal))) and now about social equality at least from the times of the USSR it remains only to dream ... I was taught that at school and at the institute it is completely free, medicine is free, breakfasts at school were free, at the institute we were given coupons for meals in the canteen (this is in addition to the scholarship), and so on and so on

      But what can I say, a school pass for a month cost 1 rubles and at least from 6 a.m. to 12 a.m. go for a drive))))))))))) and I made plans for the next 25 years at the age of 16 - until I will give the state an apartment in what year for my shock work))) and now I'm afraid to make plans for the day))))))))))))))))))
  • tatra
    tatra 5 January 2021 05: 16
    +21
    I'm already tired of this myth that people are nostalgic for the Soviet / socialist past, because they were young then. And then, the enemies of the USSR and socialism of the older generation were born as adults right away? This is the result of the 30-year creation by the enemies of the USSR of their States on the territory of the captured USSR - that neither the supporters of the USSR, nor they, will in any way let the USSR go. And 500 comments in the topic about the USSR the day before yesterday at VO is another proof. The enemies of the USSR proved that they are not able to GIVE their country and people normal power, a system, an economy, a truly patriotic ideology
    1. Pessimist22
      Pessimist22 5 January 2021 05: 49
      +1
      I wonder if the enemies of the USSR were raised by the USSR itself or abandoned from the west?
      1. Mordvin 3
        Mordvin 3 5 January 2021 06: 03
        +8
        Quote: Pessimist22
        I wonder if the enemies of the USSR were raised by the USSR itself or abandoned from the west?

        I think differently. The ideologist of the catastrophe Yakovlev, for example, studied in the United States in the same group with Kalugin. But EBN himself was torn to the west. Like Raisa Maksimovna, for example. They wanted to enter the world elite. Only they forget that power in the United States is held by people from the closed club of skulls and bones from Yale University.
      2. apro
        apro 5 January 2021 06: 14
        -5
        Quote: Pessimist22
        I wonder if the enemies of the USSR were raised by the USSR itself or abandoned from the west?

        They were raised on the territory of the USSR. And what is the reason for the appearance of a mass of people hostile to socialism. These are the mistakes of the communes in upbringing and education. Chasing economic indicators, they abandoned educational work and made it formal. Work to create a civilized person is not so fast. And the result is sometimes not visible. but if the job is abandoned, collapse is inevitable.
      3. paul3390
        paul3390 5 January 2021 10: 10
        +4
        “In the USSR, the exploiting classes have long been defeated and liquidated, but there are still survivals of bourgeois ideology, survivals of private property psychology and morality, - the bearers of bourgeois views and bourgeois morality have survived - living people, hidden enemies of our people. It is these hidden enemies, supported by the imperialist world, that will continue to harm in the future. ”

        This is Stalin's main idea. It would seem that everything is clear: the enemies do not surrender, they must be destroyed. However, he added the final paragraph: “All this is true, of course. But it is also true that, besides these enemies, we still have one enemy - the blatant behavior of our people. There is no doubt that as long as we have gullibility, there will be sabotage. Therefore, in order to eliminate sabotage, it is necessary to put an end to roguishness in our ranks "


        The answer is obvious - the enemies of the Soviet power were not killed from the very beginning. And they were active among us. It was not for nothing that Comrade Stalin postulated that as one moves towards communism, the class struggle will only intensify. But after the coming to power of the enemy of the people Khrushchev - as you know, the main ideological tool - the dictatorship of the proletariat - was destroyed. With the replacement of some type of Soviet community .. Thus, it was declared that the class contradictions within the Union of the type were destroyed, and therefore - and it was no longer necessary to fight against class enemies .. So they relaxed .. And we were immediately slammed. It was necessary to listen to the classics, and not to any balabols .. However, this is still relevant today ..
    2. apro
      apro 5 January 2021 05: 56
      -6
      Quote: tatra
      The enemies of the USSR proved that they are not able to GIVE their country and people normal power, a system, an economy, a truly patriotic ideology

      Perfectly said, the Tatra ... only a small amendment. The Russian people are not able to defend and promote their vital interests. He could not form a single party of popular interests. To formulate a modern ideology.
      1. Lech from Android.
        Lech from Android. 5 January 2021 06: 15
        +2
        the Russian people are not capable of defending and promoting their vital interests

        You are mistaken ... the whole history of the Russian people has shown this ... the presence of a direct threat of destruction or danger mobilizes the people for desperate efforts to survive ... there are plenty of examples in history.
        1. apro
          apro 5 January 2021 06: 19
          -5
          Quote: Lech from Android.
          You are mistaken ...

          Russian revolt ... senseless and merciless? Change a bad tsar for a good one? And he will give something ...
          And what about the ability to organize a highly efficient, just society?
    3. Humpty
      Humpty 5 January 2021 07: 35
      +3
      Quote: tatra
      The enemies of the USSR proved that they are not capable of GIVING normal power to their country and people

      I can only be proud that I was born in the USSR. Especially for the Victory and for Gagarin, for the parents.
      But for a long time I want to ask you, you, as a friend of the communists, explain to me why, for example, under the USSR, from the highway leading from Moscow to Europe to the villages for six months it was necessary to get in boots or on a tractor, in the mud.
      At the same time, roads were built with a large volume of blasting operations, through rocks and passes to several yurts of shepherds, so that the milk cart could collect milk. At the same time, the shepherds took turns, by means of postscripts, regularly received heroes of labor.
      Limitrophes, all who border on Russia, dream in their semi-permanent dreams of how they will divide Russia among themselves, which, according to their firm conviction, is about to fall apart.
      Uniting with any of the limitrophes in one country without full-fledged denazification of the limitrophe, as an adult, with courts, jails and prohibitions on the profession does not make any reasonable sense.
      Taking advantage of the limitrophes is a natural task, since a lot has been invested in them, you need to return your own. Russians always come back for theirs.
      1. tasha
        tasha 5 January 2021 10: 27
        +1
        LIMITRO'F, a, m. [Latin. limitrophus - borderline] (polit. new.). The name of the states that emerged after the October Socialist Revolution on the outskirts of the former Russian Empire: Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia, and Finland.

        And what about Finland? Do they want to unite with Russia too? wink
        1. Humpty
          Humpty 5 January 2021 11: 13
          0
          Quote: tasha
          Finland for what? Do they want to unite with Russia too?

          Finns are adequate. For now. Note that they did not come to adequacy by themselves. They were strongly assisted in this.
          1. tasha
            tasha 5 January 2021 11: 30
            +2
            Taking advantage of the limitrophes is a natural task, since a lot has been invested in them, you need to return your own. Russians always come back for theirs.

            Hey, tell me then what, when and how are you going to return?
            1. Humpty
              Humpty 5 January 2021 12: 58
              +1
              Quote: tasha
              Hey, tell me then what, when and how are you going to return?

              Through joint projects in energy and subsoil use. Plus, Uzbek ways of obtaining legal benefits according to the patterns of the 19th century, taking into account modern specifics.
              1. tasha
                tasha 5 January 2021 13: 08
                0
                Uzbek ways of obtaining legal benefits according to the patterns of the 19th century, taking into account modern specifics.
                I don’t know, I haven’t heard. Will you tell?
                1. Humpty
                  Humpty 5 January 2021 13: 24
                  -1
                  Quote: tasha
                  Tell

                  The Uzbeks have a lot to learn. Very, very selective and all the same. But I don’t want to teach anyone anything for free except people who are deeply attractive to me. I have nothing against you.
                  There is enough information in the public domain now. Search for yourself if interested.
                  1. tasha
                    tasha 5 January 2021 13: 27
                    0
                    Then at least tell me from what area it is. I was only given the Law on Investments by Google on the request "Uzbek ways of obtaining legal benefits" ...
                    1. Humpty
                      Humpty 5 January 2021 14: 15
                      0
                      Quote: tasha
                      Prompt

                      A certain principle. The best way to keep the peace is when the joint has to be convertible.
                      1. tasha
                        tasha 5 January 2021 15: 24
                        0
                        Thank you anyway. Although still nothing is clear. winked hi
  • Free wind
    Free wind 5 January 2021 05: 25
    +10
    The number of those oriented towards the USSR has grown exponentially, how is that, I'm embarrassed to ask? Baltics? No. Ukraine with Belarus? No. Caucasus? No. Asia? No. He can shake off a great ruler, let's say where to the realties in Guadeloupe, even if the Guadalupeans will also heal well. We help everyone, we can share our guide.
    1. U-58
      U-58 5 January 2021 09: 33
      -2
      I disagree. Belarus, yes. Kherson, Odessa, Nikolaev, Kharkov - yes. And not only them.
      Moldova, yes. And this, if we talk about the common people, but not about the "lucky ones" in power and with money plundered by back-breaking labor.
  • Lech from Android.
    Lech from Android. 5 January 2021 05: 28
    +7
    We are too Europeans to become an Asian state. And too Asians to become European.

    Nonsense ... I'm not Asian or European ... I am Russian ... I grew up among the Russian people and no European or Asian ideology will force me to abandon my roots ... and those who abandon their roots or quickly assimilate there where they have moved or simply disappear.
    The inability of the Russian population to defend its identity in the Caucasus and in neighboring republics along the borders of present-day Russia has led to the fact that it has become, roughly speaking, in the position of non-citizens, or simply partly expelled and partly destroyed.
    The world has certainly changed a lot for the worse ... many new dangers have appeared.
    It will never be possible to revive the USSR in its former form. Unification is possible only on economic positions, and this is what we should strive for ... but here too there are pitfalls ... the example of Germany with the burden of the EU on its neck is very illustrative. hi... it was not for nothing that the British left the European Union so stubbornly ... keeping a mass of parasites and idlers around their necks is dangerous for their own health.
    1. depressant
      depressant 5 January 2021 10: 31
      0
      Lech's colleague from Android, the opinion is rude, visible, correct, I support! hi
  • apro
    apro 5 January 2021 05: 49
    -6
    Russians want the USSR for themselves, but not they for the USSR. And in this sense, the Soviet project is not needed by the Russians. It requires a very high level of civic consciousness. Responsibility. And they cannot boast of this on the territory of the Russian Federation.
    1. Lech from Android.
      Lech from Android. 5 January 2021 06: 18
      +6
      it requires a very high level of civic consciousness

      Yeah ... but for some reason they constantly demand it from the Russians ... it doesn't seem to concern the rest. what no need to engage in cheating.
      1. apro
        apro 5 January 2021 06: 21
        -8
        Quote: Lech from Android.
        but for some reason the Russians constantly demand it

        And from whom to demand? Russians consider themselves carriers of superpowers, so let them correspond, and if these abilities bring the best, then the rest will catch up.
        1. Lech from Android.
          Lech from Android. 5 January 2021 06: 45
          +2
          And what are the superpowers of the Americans, French, Germans, British? We have experienced them the hard way in the last century ... No need to cheat.
          1. apro
            apro 5 January 2021 07: 03
            -4
            Quote: Lech from Android.
            No need to cheat.

            Where's the scam? I don't see ...
            Quote: Lech from Android.
            And what are the super abilities of Americans, French, Germans, British?

            Americans have created a sga. for today a planetary giant. capable of dictating its will to others. the German Reich. heir to Great Rome. the European daminator. and the French and Angles also have enough achievements.
            If the Russians consider themselves worthy of more, then they should do a lot more. Improve themselves. Defend their interests ... though which ones are not clear ... or do Russians like it on the outskirts of history? serve the interests of others? then this path leads to nowhere and leads to death ...
            1. Lech from Android.
              Lech from Android. 5 January 2021 07: 26
              -2
              Yeah, the new Aryans ... Super human, the highest race ... In the footsteps of Obama are walking. They just forgot how many wars they unleashed and how many people they killed. [Quote = apro] [quote = Lech from Android.] No need to cheat. [/ Quote]
              Where's the scam? I don't see ...
              [quote = Lech from Android.]
              Or don't you want
              see.
              1. apro
                apro 5 January 2021 07: 29
                +4
                Lyokha ... I don’t understand. What do you want to convey to me .. all the bad. Russian good? I will not argue here. There is no dispute.
  • Ross xnumx
    Ross xnumx 5 January 2021 06: 13
    +17
    USSR. We are doomed to live together ...
    Does Russia want to become the new USSR?
    How do we want to unite?
    We do not yet pay enough attention to the danger

    For what and for what purpose did the author multiply the number of libels (because a business article “this” cannot be called)?
    Where does this profanity come from?
    We ... We ... We ... Where are they? Where are those who, disregarding the expression of the will of the people, relying on treacherous (sworn, honor, conscience, duties) individuals managed to make a criminal revolution in a country with the most "terrible" state security system?
    We were, but the "gray comrades" came up both to us and to higher ranks and asked: "Are your shoulder straps tight, comrade lieutenant colonel?" They reassured the indignant: "They are not stupid in Moscow, they will figure it out without you ..." So they figured it out. They presented the people with a fait accompli - the Belovezhsky agreement.
    Initially, when people are not satisfied with something in the country, they write an action program. The EBN program was created on the collapse of the USSR. The purpose of this program was to massively fool the population. And people, accustomed to trusting government officials, simply "fell for" these sugary promises about "two Volga" and other tales of the "bad guy-Gaidar."
    Now, when the country is faced with a dilemma: either to continue this "lawlessness", or to change course, due to the continuing degradation of society and the turn to totalitarianism in all its glory, in order to preserve the country and statehood as a whole, the government rushed to the top, fighting "dissent" with the proclaimed freedom of speech and assembly by legal, subordinate actions and simply by administrative law.
    We need a country with a verified social policy, with equality of laws for everyone, with all the positive qualities of the socialist system (and therefore renewed socialism). It is not necessary to invite anyone to this union by force. People themselves must decide what state they live in (maybe even at the regional level, like the LPR). In this regard, Russia should act as a second home, and not a pack of fiscal officials who decided to warm their hands on someone else's property.
    This trend is not observed in the country. The hypocrisy, when "millionaires at the expense of the state" continue to dictate the rules of survival to all the people, HAS RUNNED !!! It's time for them to come to their senses and ask themselves why the country should hump to satisfy the whims of this clan? How much longer can you stretch (compress) the spring?
    1. domokl
      5 January 2021 06: 29
      +2
      Quote: ROSS 42
      We need a country with a verified social policy, with equality of laws for all, with all the positive qualities of the socialist system

      And them? You reproach me for "we", but you use the same word. Interesting. The simplest thing I just read in some of the comments is to blame others for everything. I did not participate in the collapse of the USSR. I didn’t support, didn’t choose, didn’t vote ... Khataskrayniki of Russian style. Because of these, the country collapsed. Let them there, in Moscow or St. Petersburg, tear each other's throats. And here, on the periphery, we will sit, discuss and see.
      A hare position, supported by the philistine "what can I do alone?", "They are the power, and I am a pawn" ... Maybe it's time to stop whining? Taking responsibility for the past and the future?
      1. Far B
        Far B 5 January 2021 07: 05
        +8
        I did not participate in the collapse of the USSR. I did not support, did not choose, did not vote ...
        Shikardos. From the article (for a second - yours):
        The phrase "I did not vote for him", already worn out to hell, made everyone sore
        - devil, forgot, what is it called in psychiatry? Anyway. But you have clearly demonstrated to us who is here
        Khataskrayniki of Russian style
        As they say, I congratulate you, citizen ...
      2. Ross xnumx
        Ross xnumx 5 January 2021 07: 57
        +5
        Quote: domokl
        You reproach me for "we", but you use the same word. Interesting.

        I do not reproach you for the word "we". I just do not understand your vague appeals and proposals.
        Yours
        So do we want a new Union or not? And, if we want, then in what and in what composition? What ideas? For what purposes? A great many questions arise. And there are no definite answers to them.

        This is exactly what the authors want - their own vision of the events that have taken place. How do "they" - we have been shown for almost 30 years ... What do "we" and you among them want - tell us and the quorum of users will appreciate it.
        No need to think out for others. Express your own opinion. Finally give YOUR UNIQUE ANSWER!!! And there are a lot of people on the site. Their task is to agree with you or not: to give a better version or to issue another opus.
        And, let's not take offense at each other, especially since our thoughts develop in one direction ...
        drinks
    2. Crowe
      Crowe 5 January 2021 06: 30
      +21
      We need a country with a verified social policy

      Quite right, we still remember that life in the USSR was calm and safe. The citizens of the country had firm confidence in the future. Today, people see stability only in the irrepressible rise in prices. And savings can not do everything. And those who still keep money in bank accounts must pay tax to the state on the interest earned. What social policy can we talk about if the country is overwhelmed by credit bondage. With minimal incomes, the majority of the population increases the cost of survival. People are forced to take out debt obligations. Under the Soviet regime, loans were interest-free. The Soviet government remained in our memory as close to the people, strong and just, while the Russian people have long been considered far from the Russians, criminal and bureaucratic.
  • Alex2
    Alex2 5 January 2021 06: 32
    0
    For some reason, this "mantra" about the reconstruction of the USSR is being repeated by some Russians, well, perhaps Russians from Kazakhstan. Russians, please speak for yourself, do not speak for others.
    1. Sergey M. Karasev
      Sergey M. Karasev 5 January 2021 10: 41
      +5
      For some reason, this "mantra" about the reconstruction of the USSR is being repeated by some Russians, well, perhaps Russians from Kazakhstan.

      And also the Kazakhs themselves, Central Asians (except for the Turkmens), Armenians, Belarusians. Not all of them, of course. Sometimes it can be heard from Moldovans, Azerbaijanis and even from Ukrainians with Georgians.
  • fiberboard
    fiberboard 5 January 2021 06: 34
    -6
    That's really true, all in a bunch. Personally, I don't want to go back to the USSR. Again, there is a shortage everywhere, a mess, queues. Young people who have not seen all this can strive for this fairy tale. The current government would also suit me if: they removed migrants from the streets, introduced a visa regime with countries that were previously part of the USSR, except Belarus. They introduced a progressive scale of taxation, canceled the pension reform, removed the reduction coefficient, created a barrier to the export of capital abroad, and stopped experimenting with education and medicine.
    1. Far B
      Far B 5 January 2021 07: 09
      -1
      I would be satisfied with the current government, if
      You are a rebel, sir!
      I wanted something: either the constitution, or the sevryuzhins with horseradish, or else I would take and rip off someone!
    2. paul3390
      paul3390 5 January 2021 10: 14
      +3
      Ask yourself a question - what the hell is all that you listed in the Wishlist - capitalism? All the more so for our colonial-type capitalism ...
    3. pv1005
      pv1005 5 January 2021 10: 41
      +4
      You just described the USSR with your desires. yes
  • Van 16
    Van 16 5 January 2021 06: 41
    +10
    "the problem of nostalgia for the past was highlighted"

    In due time there was such a good song "Nostalgia for the present". It seems to me that this is really so. Now there is nostalgia for real social justice, for real art, for real pride in your country .. And now from here comes nostalgia for the past ..
  • U-58
    U-58 5 January 2021 07: 04
    +6
    The stump is clear that the "new" Union will never repeat the one we are grieving about the loss of.
    Power in the new structure, no matter what is written in the Constitution, will belong not to the people (ladies), but again to big capital, the oligarchy with the support of 25-30% of the wealthy population.
    As a result, we will not get the country for which we stand up, but we will get quite a present-day Russia with a couple of cosmetic lotions for the appearance of progress.
    Either it is necessary to change the social system, or, in a mild case, to change the vector of development towards a social orientation, which will require a radical change in the regional and top leadership and restrictions in the possibilities of their behind-the-scenes curators, oligarchs.
  • tasha
    tasha 5 January 2021 07: 11
    0
    Russia in all periods of its development, despite the autocratic power, was a union. A union of peoples (different in culture, customs, faith, etc.).

    Moreover, our former fellow citizens for some reason forgot about how much was built (in their now independent states) during the period of the USSR, what social environment the Union created, how specialists were trained for their economy. They do not even remember that the very existence of their people became possible only after entering Russia.

    How interesting it turns out. They went to the king for protection as to the head of a stronger people, but this was an alliance. But they entered the USSR as equal peoples, built together, fought together, and now they are reproached for being ungrateful ...
  • kig
    kig 5 January 2021 07: 24
    +8
    Let's live side by side, but not together. We are all very different
  • apro
    apro 5 January 2021 07: 26
    0
    Many commentators flicker the phrase social justice ... here in the USSR it was and now it is not ... and how it is needed. And how it is lacking. But in the USSR it was enshrined at all levels of government. It was part of ideology. It was instilled society. and it was a method of building a communist society. and at the same time I forget why social justice is needed then and now.
    Today, in capitalist Russia, social justice is more of a brake than a driver of development, in an age of profit, when everything is measured by material values, it is only fair that what could be snatched away, and not for long, but many people find it easier to live with it. The highly developed civil society, with personal responsibility, united by common civilizational attitudes.
  • Boris55
    Boris55 5 January 2021 07: 32
    -8
    Quote: A. Staver
    We are too Europeans to become an Asian state. And too Asians to become European.

    We are not Europeans or Asians. We are Russians and we shouldn't be someone else.

    There are three mature civilizations in the World: European, Eastern and Russia. The differences between these civilizations lie in the culture of their peoples, formed in the Western and Eastern civilizations by beliefs. Russian civilization is a symbiosis of different beliefs, the dominant of which is Orthodoxy.

    Due to the difference in cultural characteristics, absorbed by all of us with mother's milk and in the fairy tales of grandmothers, we'll never be togetheruntil one dominant culture for all mankind is formed in the World. An example of such a society is Russia with many different peoples living in peace and harmony with each other.
    1. rocket757
      rocket757 5 January 2021 07: 54
      +3
      Yes, even to be called barbarians, the main thing is to live normally, as we like ...
      True, the question arises, how is it NORMAL?
      And here fantasies diverge in all directions.
      1. Boris55
        Boris55 5 January 2021 08: 30
        -5
        Quote: rocket757
        ... how is it NORMAL?

        It's quite simple. You just need to follow the rules of community, or at least honor in deeds, and not in words, 10 commandments given by the prophet Moses, the Jewish tribe at a turning point in his life.
        1. rocket757
          rocket757 5 January 2021 08: 38
          +1
          Yes, we lived according to different commandments .... religious, and then atheistic. And what, the world, us, saved it from cataclysms ???
          Any commandments, laws, even internal, even general, world as they were called, never stopped those who decided to act in their own interests.
          1. Boris55
            Boris55 5 January 2021 08: 54
            -7
            Quote: rocket757
            Any commandments, laws

            There are only ten commandments and they are from God, but the laws written in Rome, and according to which Themis is still guided, to create the appearance of justice, from the evil one.

            Quote: rocket757
            never stopped someone who decided to act in their own interests.

            The West has always acted according to animal laws and for 3 thousand years has built the whole World for itself. Result - the world did not accept it, Western civilization is collapsing.
            1. rocket757
              rocket757 5 January 2021 09: 00
              +2
              What other civilization has survived?
              For all of them, the period of their existence is until the time when they stop developing, moving forward, i.e.
              The question is, what will be next ??? What lies ahead for US?
              1. Boris55
                Boris55 5 January 2021 09: 11
                -6
                Quote: rocket757
                The question is, what will be next ??? What lies ahead for US?

                The World Control Center is transferred from the USA to China, from England to Iran. There is a delay - Russia intervened in Syria and deprived Iran of the laurels of primacy and liberator from ISIS, forcing it out to Europe and the arrival of correct Islam under the leadership of Iran in Europe - reformatting it for new states and peoples. The center of Christianity was supposed to go to Armenia, but Russia again intervened and blocked the extermination with the help of Turkey and Azerbaijan of the "wrong" Armenians to replace them with the correct ones brought up in the spirit of Western civilization.

                Russia is fighting for its place in this world and is quite successful. Rubles will be the World currency and freeloaders will again reach out to us, but we will remember their betrayal ...
                1. rocket757
                  rocket757 5 January 2021 09: 26
                  +3
                  This is also from the category - fantasy in many directions.
                  Here is the only judge, TIME.
                  Not in our lifetime, so the descendants will wait and see where it all goes.
                  1. Boris55
                    Boris55 5 January 2021 10: 31
                    -3
                    Quote: rocket757
                    This is also from the category - fantasy

                    The fact that our troops are in Syria and Karabakh is not a fantasy.
                    The fact that we are co-founders of the BRICS New Development Bank (NDB) is not a fantasy.
                    That the IMF is moving its offices to China is not a fantasy.
                    The fact that the Pope met with our priest in Cuba and after that a decision was made to move the control center from the Vatican to Armenia, and not to Russia - this is not a fantasy.
                    1. rocket757
                      rocket757 5 January 2021 10: 57
                      +2
                      We are not the only ones who fantasize ... these are everywhere.
                      Time will tell whose fantasies come true.
                2. Esoteric
                  Esoteric 6 January 2021 13: 03
                  +1
                  Yeah, they will. To our courts, where 99% of the sentences, and only 1% of acquittals. To our psychiatry, which is increasingly taking on a punitive guise, with terrifying conditions of "treatment", to punitive narcology, when having drunk once (and why then they sell alcohol) you have a stigma for life, and you will not see any decent work.
              2. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 5 January 2021 09: 49
                +1
                What lies ahead for US?
                Another "dark ages". This is neither good nor bad, it is a given.
      2. bober1982
        bober1982 5 January 2021 08: 57
        -5
        Quote: rocket757
        And here fantasies diverge in all directions.

        With fantasies must be fought, otherwise you can slide down to obscene imaginations and prodigal passions.
        And, this applies to representatives of all the warring parties, whoever they are - three times hero of socialist labor, oligarch, bourgeois, proletarian.
        1. rocket757
          rocket757 5 January 2021 09: 10
          +2
          It is useless to fight what is natural rather than disgusting to a person!
          It will not break through here, so it is not known in what form there ...
          there is an old, proven way for such cases, you CANNOT PREVENT, HEAD !!!
          If you do everything according to your mind, a completely creative movement will turn out.
        2. Boris55
          Boris55 5 January 2021 09: 19
          -1
          Quote: bober1982
          otherwise you can slide down to obscene imaginations and prodigal passions.

          What are you however laughing
          1. bober1982
            bober1982 5 January 2021 09: 30
            -5
            Quote: Boris55
            What are you however

            Like everyone else, I am imputed to the sin of Adam from the very birth, so I have to fight.
            You, after all, should know about it.
            1. Boris55
              Boris55 5 January 2021 10: 22
              -1
              Quote: bober1982
              Like everyone else, I am imputed to the sin of Adam from the very birth, so I have to fight.

              The natural desire of all living beings to reproduce cannot be a mistake (sin) - this is a gift from God. A mistake is its misuse, not in line with His providence.
  • Hello from Baku
    Hello from Baku 5 January 2021 07: 38
    +5
    I remember the end of the 80s, when every morning, instead of working, people in the Research Institute of Radio Communications, and belonging to the KGB, where I worked after graduation, discussed another article by Korotich in Ogonyok, who remembers it was such a magazine. Now, from the height of the years I have already lived, I can unequivocally say that that system has outlived its usefulness and that Yeltsin and Gorbachev were the consequence, not the cause of the collapse. Was it possible to reform, avoid, rebuild? I think no. They can give the example of China, but China did not bear the material and moral expenses like the USSR, it, as it were, in the shadow of the collapse of our country, was slowly developing. The West did not see a danger in him and profiled.
    Do I regret the collapse? Yes very. Would you like to return to the past? Highly. Is it possible to revive the Union? Unlikely. We must live on.
    1. Ross xnumx
      Ross xnumx 5 January 2021 08: 24
      +11
      Quote: Greetings from Baku
      Now, from the height of the years I have already lived, I can unequivocally say that that system has outlived its usefulness and that Yeltsin and Gorbachev were the consequence, not the cause of the collapse.

      To me, too, from the height of the years I have lived, it is clear that Gorbachev appeared only to organize the beginning of the physical collapse of the USSR. It was evident with what haste (and I don’t know under whose “sensitive leadership”) he began to break the established foundations and traditions, change laws, making them loopholes for corruption and for quick personal enrichment. If we take the period of the HMS rule, we will not find there any “breakthroughs” or “new achievements”. His glasnost was aimed only at denigrating the previous period of the leadership of the USSR (especially "different, all sorts" tried to kick the USSR during the Stalin era. Here is his glasnost:

      Quote: Greetings from Baku
      Was it possible to reform, avoid, rebuild? I think no.
      I think yes. Only it was necessary to approach this not by order of persons from the “committee”, but by the method of holding referendums ... Otherwise, he “invented” the post of president of the USSR quickly, but in what direction and in what direction the economy of the USSR would develop, he did not take into account. Many remember that it was with the collapse of economic ties between the union republics that the economy of the USSR began to collapse.
      1. Boris55
        Boris55 5 January 2021 08: 43
        0
        Quote: ROSS 42
        I think yes. Only it was necessary to approach this not with the direction of persons from the "committee", but by the method of holding referenda.

        Yes, but it is not necessary to start with referendums. the opinion of the people is formed by mass media controlled by the authorities (not always acting).

        We must start with the abolition of the Khrushchev directive on holding parties. closed meetings i.e. in secret from the people. Only when the people took an active part in party affairs, although they did not have the right to vote at party meetings, but had the right to express their opinion and listened to it, only then did the country develop (under Stalin). Starting with Khrushchev, the people were removed from the government of the country, the people in the 90s answered them in kind.

        ps
        The first time I voted for Yeltsin, then - no.
    2. U-58
      U-58 5 January 2021 08: 38
      +2
      Let's move on. But with what? With what settings?
      China is good for the fact that it developed Lenin's ideas in terms of the New Economic Policy - NEP. But in our country this policy was temporary, forced, introduced for a limited time in the development of the productive forces. And even so, it bore fruit.
      China went (and goes) further.
      There is still the same ideology, the adherence to which is forced rather rigidly.
      But free (within certain limits) entrepreneurship is allowed and encouraged.
      The state uses the fruits of this process in every possible way, developing the country.
      The tone in domestic politics is set by the ruling party, but not by a closed group of oligarchs.
      China won the socialist competition over the entire socialist camp. Thanks to Grandpa Deng Xiaoping.
      And what about us?
      The program is 500 days. Zaslavskaya, Abalkin, Aganbegyan ... Who remembers this?
      Where are the results of these ideas?
      Russian capital, following the accelerated course of formation, primary accumulation, and monopolization in 15 years (in the West - 150 years), followed by grandfather Marx, very quickly realized that democratic principles could be quickly corrected in their interests and made such a correction, firmly established in power.
      Moreover, big business is more interested in the "new Union" than all of us.
      For he sees this Union as a platform for his further development and growth. There are cheap labor and new markets for him.
      But not honest wages of workers, not worthy of pensions and advanced education and medicine.
      Whatever one may say, history goes its own way.
      And if we have abandoned the ideas of socialism, the fair and short road to the "bold future of mankind," then now we will go there along a long and thorny path.
      The self-awareness of society will develop sooner or later, no matter how fooled by TV shows, Coca-Cola, burgers and fairy tales about fair elections.
      Well, as we become strong, we will see that the strong always have many allies and satellites.
    3. parusnik
      parusnik 5 January 2021 09: 03
      +5
      Can the Union be revived?
      ... Was it possible to revive the empire during the Civil War? That is why it is not possible to revive the Union either ... Not yet possible.
      1. prior
        prior 5 January 2021 09: 36
        +4
        The key word is war.
        If not for the war, the USSR would not exist.
        Had a war happened now, the system of power in Russia would have changed instantly.
        When the people have weapons in their hands, then they have strength, then they have power.
        Then you can talk about the USSR 2.0.
    4. paul3390
      paul3390 5 January 2021 10: 20
      +4
      the system has outlived its usefulness

      It was not the system that outlived its usefulness, but simply the bourgeois elements broke through to power in the Union, starting with Khrushch, naturally - their goal was to dismantle the Stalinist USSR with subsequent sawing. To do this, it took them 40 years, the original message was so powerful. But the enemies of the people tried very hard, and alas, they did succeed ..

      How they came to power is a separate question. Extremely important for us, the builders of the USSR 2.1 But - what happened only confirms the founders - the class struggle is not for you to eat lobio, a little gaped - and you were destroyed ...
      1. parusnik
        parusnik 5 January 2021 10: 25
        +2
        bourgeois elements broke through the Union, starting with Khrushch
        nationalist bourgeois elements
  • tasha
    tasha 5 January 2021 07: 38
    +2
    But as the situation develops, their number will increase and ultimately lead to a reorientation of each state towards Russia.

    The number of those oriented towards the USSR has grown exponentially. Note, not Russia, but the USSR.

    It seems that individual chapters of the article were written either by different people or at different times ...
  • rocket757
    rocket757 5 January 2021 07: 51
    +2
    "I did not vote for him"

    Cool excuse .... I have repeated it myself!
    Although to a seemingly simple question - What did you do to prevent this from getting into power, the answer can be VERY NOT MANY.
    1. Ross xnumx
      Ross xnumx 5 January 2021 09: 10
      +7
      Quote: rocket757
      And what did you do to prevent this one from falling into power, the answer can be VERY NOT MANY.

      Yes, what are you talking about! Only those who nominated themselves in the elections can answer this way (to be honest and frank).
      The people could:
      - to vote for another candidate proposed by the election commission;
      - not to go to the polls, having given their vote to the winner deduced by the calculation of the election commission;
      - to break the ballot, casting your vote to the winner, deduced by the calculation of the election commission ...
      To avoid misunderstandings with the choice of candidates from parties and simply self-nominated candidates, percentage barriers were set for passage, which made it possible for a party of "dissidents" to appear as part of legislators from a group of citizens of at least 5 voters, and self-nominated candidates had to collect 550 signatures in different regions ... In addition, it was decided to abolish the column: "Against all", so that "smart voting" could not deprive those "approved" by the election commission (what if !!!) to participate in elections in general ...
      Now tell me, what can people do today to prevent people they do not need from power?
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 5 January 2021 09: 22
        +2
        Suppose I always went to the polls and voted not for those who are at the top now ... that's right, a little complacency.
        Now, a person cannot really influence the government, this is obvious ... but PEOPLE, the MASS, have the ability to influence! Only if they unite, ALL TOGETHER.
        If this is not TOGETHER, then there is nothing to talk about. Nothing will change.
        At the top, they are not fools and will be by truth, rather not by truth, to prevent the unification of the masses, this is understandable, but you can never lose water under a lying stone, this is also obvious.
        I do not know what and how should be done now in order to encourage the masses to unite .... there are many recipes offered, but which one is correct, this is a question.
  • sleeve
    sleeve 5 January 2021 07: 55
    +3
    The "ideality" of the USSR is largely exaggerated. The state in which he was before the crash, in many ways, predetermined the success of this "transaction". So, speaking about something positive from the Soviet past, you still need to look deeper into the agenda. Separate the declared and the real. Moscow was Moscow then. So "Moscow" socialism is not the socialism of Ryazan or even Novosibirsk. In many ways, what is now begins to resemble that reality. Again, declarative. That we don't have free education? Of course there is. Maybe there is no free higher? The same is true in not bad parts. Just relative to the potential of that time, more in terms of volume (more places of study) are now offered ... but for a price Maybe we don't have free medicine? There is. It is even spelled out in the constitution. Is it real? Nuances, nuances, nuances ... down to criminal cases, nuances. And there, in the USSR? All the same. The very possibilities of medicine were less in technical weapons, in the potential for the treatment of complex diseases. But the “fair” absolute coverage of the minimum was present as it is now. The question is about the same "figures" who "improve" the medical system in the same way as the occupiers. So after all, this is also a controversial issue that is exaggerated and supported in the discussion. I have not seen anything like it in the USSR, only at the level of special closed publications. Was there no need? Yes, I beg you! Before my eyes ...
    As for social justice? And how was it expressed for us then and now? Maybe someone wants to "equalize" everyone's income with each other again, and even sacredly believe that this will happen in reality? At the heart of the current issue of this very "injustice" is a banal insult. That they did not share ... Nobody calls for the return of the system of redistribution of that time. No. I would like to redistribute and compensate for the lost, that is, it will be enriched again. So this is not the USSR. It was "sharpened" exactly the opposite (again, declaratively). So we are not calling and wanting the USSR. And something incomprehensible so far in the technical details, what we were promised then and not given. That is why we silently allowed to change our owners (the owner in this transcription is the owner of the tools and the distributor of the absolute proceeds from the economy). But if only ... And then around this idea they rally more abruptly than around our fields and the nuclear shield. Steeper than around the endless potential of croplands. Because the idea and method of distribution is the main ideology of not only the economy, but also social life. Moreover, the more accurately the system is verified, the more opportunities for its integration. Look to the West. The European Union is that equal and equal? But people like it and they go there. Straight "climb" for the present ... And the dollar economy in general? Is there an idea in it? And then! "Get rich". Are there spiritual guidelines in it? And then. USA. Is there a "clergy" in it? There are. Brokers. Does it have spiritual leaders? There is. Transcorporations ... Religion? Estessno ... How will we answer? What is the general answer to what is regulated by animal instincts?
    In short, the idea is needed. Working system. And the question of further fate will be removed. How and to whom to do it. And there were. And they will always be. People they are not going anywhere yet ... They actually gathered here for this.
    1. Ross xnumx
      Ross xnumx 5 January 2021 09: 20
      +6
      Quote: sleeve
      But people like it and they go there.

      You do not take into account the fact that animal instincts in a person of modern society are much more developed than spiritual ones. Can you imagine people giving their lives for oligarchs? Dmitry Karbyshev, Young Guards, Gastello, Kosmodemyanskaya, Sailors ...
      Having raised a faceless, spiritless herd, the authorities successfully reap the fruits of indifference. People start to resent when a question affects their specific interests. The ties of trade unions and other mass organizations have been severed in the country ...
      People do not like it, but they climb there to eat, drink, have a place to live and a livelihood.
      1. sleeve
        sleeve 5 January 2021 10: 20
        +1
        One of the conditions for the change of formations was and is the creation of a new person. In fact, in the USSR, such activities were started, but naturally received a reactionary slope. Also because the new ideology was inculcated in a struggle. "Who is not with us is against us." Naturally ideal would be a forward emphasis on spirituality rather than material. But the world must be pragmatic. Naturally it is necessary to dance from what we have. And the current technical level already allows some "consumption instincts" to be taken outside the framework of ideology. So to say, do not put it at the forefront. But they don't. Moreover, the "eternal staged development of capitalism" was supplemented by a certain "post-industrial way". That is, the robots defend themselves as best they can. Already, the word "capitalism" does not sound almost. Only "democracy" ...
    2. Plastmaster
      Plastmaster 5 January 2021 16: 08
      +4
      Quote: sleeve
      In short, the idea is needed. Working system

      Globally, yes. The idea is good. And in fact, everyone who has a positive attitude towards the USSR, remember that the union was created for the people, was created for equality. And now dreams of creating such a union, this same dream of justice, even taking into account some losses in the form of certain buns. And those who write against the USSR are people who could, wanted to snatch something, but it did not work out, the insult gnaws. And so gnawed straight road behind the border post. With a ban on return entry. In my opinion this is also true.
      1. sleeve
        sleeve 6 January 2021 08: 33
        +2
        What? We live in the era of the Great Migration. Isn't there a reason to "separate" the contingents into different camps? Are you in favor of same-sex marriage? To Europe. For a normal family? Welcome. Well, further in the text ... Quite likely.
  • nikvic46
    nikvic46 5 January 2021 08: 41
    +2
    When Misha came, the Politburo decided that we lack freedom of speech and the joy of life. And despite the accidents, joy splashed out on TV screens. And it does not stop to this day. And when this joy is a lot, it ceases to be joy. Together with these happy moments, people learned the joy of private labor. It was these people who became the vanguard of our people. And while we were thinking and cunning, suddenly our entire economy became the property of dozens of people. And so it happened throughout the entire post-Soviet space. There also appeared tycoons. and bai. Will they be able to go under the control of the center? On the basis of a confederation it is possible, but this is a completely different Union.
  • Old man
    Old man 5 January 2021 08: 59
    -3
    This is because Russia is NUCLEAR.
    And when the Russians leave the lands that gravitate towards the Core, destruction begins there.
    You cannot violate the laws of the universe with impunity.
    This is clearly seen from the analysis of the "Concept of the Core and the Periphery" (https://www.proza.ru/2018/12/17/810) The fact is that any process, and the development of mankind is a PROCESS, always has a CORE and PERIPHERAL ... It is on the opposition of these two poles of the One Whole that Evolution is built.
    The periphery is freer and more reckless. Its role is to find, at any cost, everything new, without any regard for the consequences of such actions.
    The kernel is more conservative and judicious. Its role is to select, preserve, and transmit to others the necessary (but safe) locations of the Periphery. At the moment, the West (and Poland gravitating towards it) is the periphery of this Process. And Russia is the NUCLEUS.
    Here are explanations about Russia and its role in world history - "God. Earth. Man" (in particular, part I, chapter X and part II, chapter VIII) https://www.proza.ru/2009/10/02/ 706
  • parusnik
    parusnik 5 January 2021 08: 59
    +3
    I guess we're just doomed to live together. Both geographically and mentally.
    ... And how long ago did the author have such thoughts? laughing And what prevents you from living? CIS? A union state of Russia and Belarus? EurAsEC? .. CIS-Armenia and Azerbaijan are members of this community, what prevented them from living together? Or what prevented Georgia from living together with South Ossetia and Abkhazia, what prevents Moldova and Transnistria from living together? Yes, what prevented Russia and Chechnya from living together? What was that war for? That after that war they became more friends? The reconciliation of the Caucasus happened and only .. In our region of the Krasnodar Territory, do you know who is blamed for "such a ragged life" (c)? Muscovites. Muscovites came and otzhali everything. I am sure that Muscovites have squeezed everything out, they say in many regions of the country. Although this is not so, someone must be to blame for internal problems. "Spudents, yavrei, sicilists" have outlived theirs. And lastly, let me remind you of history. They could not, the nationalist governments in Russia and its outskirts to unite against the Bolsheviks, moreover, they even fought "south with south" (c), alas, and history tends to repeat itself.
  • Undecim
    Undecim 5 January 2021 09: 01
    +7
    As always, this author has scraps of thoughts that are far from reality.
    Alas, the desire to become a rich country in the modern world is not realizable.

    This is the capital of South Korea - Seoul. 1965 year.

    And this is the same place. 2003 year.
    1. Korsar4
      Korsar4 5 January 2021 09: 03
      +6
      The cities of China are also impressive. Although China cannot be called an unambiguously rich country.

      This means that the "level of wealth" can be considered in different ways.
    2. Undecim
      Undecim 5 January 2021 09: 04
      +4

      And this is the same place again - today.

      This is South Korea's GDP per capita since 1960.
  • 7,62h54
    7,62h54 5 January 2021 09: 02
    +12
    The people want to join the Union, and the Dear Leader is nostalgic for the times of Nicholas II. Therefore, in the short term, nothing good shines.
  • Revolver
    Revolver 5 January 2021 09: 05
    -4
    Of course, my business is on the side, but I want to remind you of the line from the communist anthem: "... we will destroy it to the ground, and then ..."
    Russia / the USSR went through this "to the ground, and then" in modern history 2 times, one began in 1917, the second in 1991. And if we count the Great Patriotic War, which is comparable in destruction, then all three. Do you want one more time? The economic formation does not change overnight by the capture of the Winter Palace or by the shooting from the tank guns of the Supreme Soviet. It will not do without ruin, and neither world imperialism led by the United States nor the world Zionist kagal will have anything to do with it. What happened in Civic and immediately after it, and after the Great Patriotic War, there are no eyewitnesses, and in the 1990s the majority should remember here. Do you want one more time? I personally - no, although in America I will not feel this materially, but like "for the power it is insulting."
    1. U-58
      U-58 5 January 2021 09: 44
      +8
      17+ 30 = 40. What was the country like in 1940, 30 years after the beginning of destruction? Especially when you consider that the very bottom of the country took place in 21-25 years.
      And now 91 + 30 = ... 2021.
      How to put on the scales the change in mood, attitude, well-being of people in the 40th year compared to the 17th year and in 2021 compared to the 91st year?
      Especially considering that the scientific and technical potential for development today is incomparably higher than in the TU era.
      And 45 + 30 = 1975 ...
    2. parusnik
      parusnik 5 January 2021 10: 34
      +7
      "... we will destroy to the ground, and then ..."
      ... We will destroy the whole World of violence To the foundation, and then We will build ours, we will build a new World: Who was nothing, he will become everything.
      Russia / USSR went through this "to the ground, and then" in modern history 2 times, one began in 1917, the second in 1991.
      .. It turns out that in 1917 the good was destroyed and the bad was built. Then the bad was destroyed and the good was built? Or how? laughing
      1. Revolver
        Revolver 5 January 2021 10: 56
        -2
        Quote: parusnik
        It turns out that in 1917 they destroyed the good and built the bad, then destroyed the bad and built the good? Or how?

        It turns out that in 1917 the working market economy was destroyed, and to replace it, the planned economy was somehow fine-tuned, if by the mid-1930s.
        In 1991, the working planned economy was destroyed, and to replace it, the market economy was somehow fine-tuned, if by the mid-2010s.
        What did the debugging processes cost in unrealized, or even completely ruined human lives - to remind, or do you remember so? Maybe you personally live dreams of a bright future, but the vast majority of people live today. Do you think you have the right to break their lives in the name of a bright future, which may and will happen, but it is not known when and how? Or maybe it will happen according to Chernomyrdin: "We wanted the best, but it turned out as always."
        1. parusnik
          parusnik 5 January 2021 11: 33
          +11
          Do you consider yourself entitled to break their lives in the name of a bright future, which may and will happen, but it is not known when and how?
          .. And where did you get this? laughing And someone's life to break? Vikselberg, Sechin, Fedun and others? smile
          or even completely ruined human lives - to remind, or do you remember?
          ... I have relatives, both on the paternal and maternal lines, from the wealthy ... None of them was ruined, and almost all of them laid down their lives during the Great Patriotic War, in the name of a bright future, which they conquered in 1917, and then defended ...
        2. Kronos
          Kronos 5 January 2021 12: 11
          +4
          D 1917 there was still a feudal economy with noblemen who had great rights.
      2. tasha
        tasha 5 January 2021 11: 42
        0
        .. It turns out that in 1917 the good was destroyed and the bad was built. Then the bad was destroyed and the good was built?
        What's the difference? Destroyed. Will we destroy again? Two times is not enough ...
        1. parusnik
          parusnik 5 January 2021 11: 46
          +4
          And what to destroy, the material and technical base? Reconstruction can't be done? laughing
          1. tasha
            tasha 5 January 2021 11: 52
            0
            The economic formation does not change overnight by the capture of the Winter Palace or by the shooting from the tank guns of the Supreme Soviet. It will not do without ruin, and neither world imperialism, led by the United States, nor the world Zionist kagal will have anything to do with it.
            1. parusnik
              parusnik 5 January 2021 12: 22
              +3
              Be kind enough to substantiate this thesis ... about destruction laughing
              1. tasha
                tasha 5 January 2021 12: 35
                0
                That in 1917, that in 1991 the state was destroyed. The reasons, of course, were different. Was it possible to avoid such disasters? I think yes.
                1. parusnik
                  parusnik 5 January 2021 12: 39
                  +2
                  No, you still justify this:
                  The economic formation does not change overnight by the capture of the Winter Palace or by the shooting from the tank guns of the Supreme Soviet. It will not do without ruin, and neither world imperialism, led by the United States, nor the world Zionist kagal will have anything to do with it.
                  ... Don't shy away from the answer .. laughing
                  1. tasha
                    tasha 5 January 2021 12: 46
                    0
                    The transition from one formation takes place in the form of a revolution. A revolution implies dramatic, fundamental changes.
                    1. parusnik
                      parusnik 5 January 2021 12: 54
                      +3
                      Those. to feudalism in Europe and in Russia, including, passed through the revolution? In Italy, the identity went to capitalism as a result of the revolution ..? So as an example ... And lastly, where did the devastation in Russia come from in the 90s? As a result of the shooting of the White House? Or was the country occupied? Or was there a civil war? The tank armies of the Reds and Whites roamed the country? smile
                      1. tasha
                        tasha 5 January 2021 13: 03
                        -2
                        Slavery, feudalism - not such a big difference, I think.

                        The devastation in Russia came from the destruction of economic ties.
                      2. parusnik
                        parusnik 5 January 2021 14: 07
                        +3
                        Slavery, feudalism - not such a big difference, I think.
                        ..Well, if you think so .. smile "Chaos in the heads" (c)
                      3. tasha
                        tasha 5 January 2021 15: 10
                        +1
                        Have a nice one you too... hi
                      4. parusnik
                        parusnik 5 January 2021 15: 29
                        +3
                        Good luck to you ... hi
    3. tasha
      tasha 5 January 2021 12: 39
      +1
      Reconstruction can't be done?

      About reconstruction. Not quite on the topic of the article, of course. I think that if I wish to ... Skillfully manipulate public opinion, introduce some restrictions, carry out some minor transformations. In ten to fifteen years, you can convince the country's population that we live in the USSR-2. For example... wink What do you think?
      1. parusnik
        parusnik 5 January 2021 12: 44
        0
        Skillfully manipulating public opinion, introducing some restrictions, carrying out some minor transformations. In ten to fifteen years, you can convince the country's population that we live in the USSR-2.
        .Oh how! Simply and easily. smile Minor repairs, not reconstruction. smile How is this manipulation of public opinion? How is J. Rodari Jelsomino in the Land of Liars? smile
        1. tasha
          tasha 5 January 2021 12: 54
          +1
          About how!
          So, I myself was amazed. Not very easy and simple, but you can ...
          Think, for example, if you would be outraged, for example, by the wealth of our oligarch officials, if you did not know about luxury villas, yachts and airplanes.
          Here's another thought. Fifteen years ago, I would write "officials AND oligarchs", and now - "officials-oligarchs." On the machine ... request
          1. parusnik
            parusnik 5 January 2021 12: 57
            0
            if they didn't know about luxurious villas, yachts and airplanes.
            ..And this is someone hiding? laughing
            1. tasha
              tasha 5 January 2021 13: 05
              0
              So what am I talking about .. And slowly, slowly, restricting access to information, changing interests ...
              1. parusnik
                parusnik 5 January 2021 14: 12
                +2
                How's that? smile Our one district chief, the first three months drove a "Muscovite", then a jeep, with a personal chauffeur, not from the administration, but with a personal one. They took him off, but not for that. He continues to drive like this. Restricting access to information - these are the eyes To gouge everyone out? And plug their ears? .. Although, however, I would not be surprised at that either.
                1. tasha
                  tasha 5 January 2021 15: 13
                  0
                  My friend, the first secretary of the district committee went on the black Volga. And nothing..
                  I forgot about the substitution of terms, here ...
                2. parusnik
                  parusnik 5 January 2021 15: 28
                  +1
                  My friend, the secretary of the district committee went to the state one, there is no need to substitute the concept. This one on his own to work and home, on business at the worker, in three months saved up for a jeep and for a driver's salary. And he built a two-story house. The secretary of the district committee, in the "government" quarter He lived, translated, rented an apartment to a receiver.
                3. tasha
                  tasha 5 January 2021 15: 39
                  +1
                  I am not changing the concept. Do you imagine rural life now in the USSR? Let's take, for example, a village, a regional center of 7-8 thousand people. Yes, even now it is possible to announce the revival of the USSR there. Filter TV channels, limit Internet traffic, strangle huckster merchants and individual farmers with taxes, create a subdivision of an agricultural holding and ... wink
  • Aitvaras
    Aitvaras 5 January 2021 09: 23
    -1
    The author is right, an economic miracle in Russia will take place when Lada-Kalina confidently overtakes the Porsche Panamera on the Lada-Kalina highway, it is easier to build Communism in a single country, as Comrade S. Khrushchev, back by 1980
    1. parusnik
      parusnik 5 January 2021 10: 35
      +2
      Renault-Nissan-Lada-Kalina surely will not overtake Porsche Panamera smile
  • evgen1221
    evgen1221 5 January 2021 09: 26
    +4
    At the expense of doomed to live together (that is, a single country), then in the next 100 years the CIS will live separately. In terms of nostalgia for the union of the USSR, many commentators agree, and I, too, that we miss the feeling of reinforced concrete protection of citizens from negativity from outside and inside, the strength of our state, social justice and a normal and not bestial life, which the union, as it were, did not scold it, but he provided. And people worked and died to preserve these gains. Nostalgia for the STATE for people and not vice versa as today.
  • Captain45
    Captain45 5 January 2021 11: 29
    +3
    The Russians became to blame for all the troubles that befell these new countries after the collapse of the Union. A kind of complex of the "little man", for which everything was decided by the "big"(C)
    On the topic of grievances, when the "little man" suddenly became "big": "There is no worse trouble than a little man in a big post," says a French proverb and "The higher a monkey climbs a tree, the better its bottom is visible," they say Englishmen, but in Russia they always sneer, they say, "Out of the dirt, but into the riches."
  • mark_rod
    mark_rod 5 January 2021 12: 25
    0
    The only way we have is to build a strong welfare state. It is clear that we will be putting a spoke in our wheels. But there is no other way! When the state will not help the oligarchs in the country, but ordinary people, and not selectively by category, but everyone without exception and not necessarily with money, but laws, actions, the development of the real sector of the economy, when the state will not develop a repressive apparatus, but will give real freedom to everyone, when they begin to respect a working person and make films about him, and not a capitalist or an official, then an economic miracle like the Chinese one will happen.
  • iouris
    iouris 5 January 2021 12: 26
    0
    We are doomed...
  • The eye of the crying
    The eye of the crying 5 January 2021 12: 31
    +1
    The USSR cannot be returned. It is impossible to return to it. And even to build a new USSR is impossible (due to the complete absence of all sides of the desire to build it).
    1. ccsr
      ccsr 5 January 2021 17: 31
      +2
      Quote: Eye of the Crying
      The USSR cannot be returned. It is impossible to return to it. And even to build a new USSR is impossible (due to the complete absence of all sides of the desire to build it).

      I completely agree with your point of view. Even the well-fed Czech Republic and Slovakia do not think about unification, although many people regret the loss of a single country, but they do not take any steps to restore, although they peacefully parted.
      After all thirty years of turmoil, we will not even go for it - we got to know those with whom we were in the Union too well, and for some reason I personally don’t want to get these "brothers" back.
  • Aleks2000
    Aleks2000 5 January 2021 12: 52
    +4
    Alas. The elite of all countries incites nationalism.

    This, with examples, is often heard in the commercials of the traditional left.
    Up to Strelkov, who stated that the oligarchs and banks from the Russian Federation also fed and raised the nationalists of Kiev. Do you remember Putin's "Rejoice"?

    And in the videos of the non-fictional, this is also often mentioned.

    So "USSR. We are doomed to live together" is pure idealism and nostalgia, which the elite will never allow for now.
    Murders, pipes on the back of the head, Black Hundreds, Caucasians, voting Uzbeks and Chinese, plane crashes, tension in the regions, Crimea is ours, and "shale oil is not ours" - everything will go into action.

    They always unite against someone else. While against the Kremlin - since it is "close, it will come and buy everything." Alas.
  • soloveyav
    soloveyav 5 January 2021 13: 33
    -1
    On the question of everyone and who needs it.
    We must not forget that those who have not lived a day in the USSR already have their own children, and those who have sworn allegiance to Russia or other countries are about 50. And you don’t need to think that everyone wants to join the union - there is an opinion that the majority do not care about the If only they and their children would live well, and those who support Russia will have a more active minority (for the entire union of those who want to do something to protect it, there were two riot police in the Baltic states, even the Supreme Council was defended by more people). And this means that when trying to restore the union, there will be another civilian, then another repression - so to speak, a control shot at the Russians. So the leftists have to choose - either they are for Russia (and such were and are, worthy people and patriots), or they are for the union and multinational. And we must not forget that the USSR is also Central Asia with the Caucasus with their excellent demography - you can dissolve into them without a trace. And the Russians have already lost a lot from the communist experiments, the second round can be fatal. So communist citizens, arrange your experiments on the Chinese, etc. - there are a lot of them, fortunately, unlike the USSR, you can now move to another country, and a communist as a real internationalist should not have philistine concepts of patriotism laughing .
    PS And I was always amused how the communists like to transfer their agenda to everyone and say that they are the only blessing for the Russians - at least you should read Lenin, he was still a Russophobe-internationalist, get out as it is.
    1. Doliva63
      Doliva63 5 January 2021 19: 25
      +3
      Quote: soloveyav
      On the question of everyone and who needs it.
      We must not forget that those who have not lived a day in the USSR already have their own children, and those who have sworn allegiance to Russia or other countries are about 50. And you don’t need to think that everyone wants to join the union - there is an opinion that the majority do not care about the If only they and their children would live well, and those who support Russia will have a more active minority (for the entire union of those who want to do something to protect it, there were two riot police in the Baltic states, even the Supreme Council was defended by more people). And this means that when trying to restore the union, there will be another civilian, then another repression - so to speak, a control shot at the Russians. So the leftists have to choose - either they are for Russia (and such were and are, worthy people and patriots), or they are for the union and multinational. And we must not forget that the USSR is also Central Asia with the Caucasus with their excellent demography - you can dissolve into them without a trace. And the Russians have already lost a lot from the communist experiments, the second round can be fatal. So communist citizens, arrange your experiments on the Chinese, etc. - there are a lot of them, fortunately, unlike the USSR, you can now move to another country, and a communist as a real internationalist should not have philistine concepts of patriotism laughing .
      PS And I was always amused how the communists like to transfer their agenda to everyone and say that they are the only blessing for the Russians - at least you should read Lenin, he was still a Russophobe-internationalist, get out as it is.

      Soloviev got here too ?! laughing
      1. soloveyav
        soloveyav 5 January 2021 19: 51
        +1
        If smile I am not even a citizen of the Russian Federation, although I am Russian by nationality.
  • Jaromir
    Jaromir 5 January 2021 13: 44
    +11
    The most difficult year for all mankind in the XNUMXst century has ended.

    It has not yet been the most difficult year. Difficult years lie ahead of us. The situation is tense to the limit, both in the world and in the country ...
  • Jaromir
    Jaromir 5 January 2021 13: 46
    +6
    The world, to which everyone was accustomed, which, although it was not just, was its own, began to collapse.

    Capitalism cannot be your own for most people. Capitalism is your own, only for the very minimum number of people.
  • Jaromir
    Jaromir 5 January 2021 13: 48
    +9
    Against this background, the problem of nostalgia for the past was very clearly highlighted.

    This is not nostalgia, this is the usual desire of a person to live peacefully with confidence in the future.
    1. Krasnoyarsk
      Krasnoyarsk 5 January 2021 19: 58
      +1
      Quote: Jaromir

      This is not nostalgia, this is the usual desire of a person to live peacefully with confidence in the future.

      The word "nostalgia" in it has something of despair. And we dreaming live in peace with confidence in the future and JUSTICE. It is not true that everyone has their own justice.
  • Jaromir
    Jaromir 5 January 2021 13: 49
    +6
    Yes, according to the very past, with which not long ago we fought with such pleasure and zeal.

    We? The author may have fought the frenzy with the past, but personally I have not fought.
    1. Krasnoyarsk
      Krasnoyarsk 5 January 2021 19: 50
      +1
      Quote: Jaromir

      We? The author may have fought the frenzy with the past, but personally I have not fought.

      And I fought against these fighters. I'm not talking about the author, I don't know which side of the barricades he was on.
  • Jaromir
    Jaromir 5 January 2021 14: 01
    +8
    will ultimately lead to a reorientation of each state towards Russia

    But for now, they are reorienting themselves to other directions.
    If Russia does not notice the former Soviet republics, and continues to play with the West as partners, others will come to replace us. Turkey, China, the European Union have already come to the former conscientious land ...
  • machinistvl
    machinistvl 5 January 2021 14: 15
    0
    It seems to me that the USSR will no longer be resurrected. The older generation would be happy, but they cannot do anything. And young people, they did not live under the USSR, and do not know what it is.
  • Radikal
    Radikal 5 January 2021 16: 40
    +4
    Not having read to the end, I already understood who the author of the article is ... All. lol
  • Doliva63
    Doliva63 5 January 2021 19: 22
    +4
    "SS division" Natigal "
    Resanuled. NaKhtigal all the same. A small gray bird called a nightingale. And not a division, but a battalion. Well, I do, grumble. wassat
  • Lara Croft
    Lara Croft 5 January 2021 19: 30
    0
    I guess we're just doomed to live together. Both geographically and mentally.

    So in the Russian Federation (specifically in Moscow), half of the former Soviet Union lives like that, for them the Russian Federation is a stranger, and in their homeland they cannot do anything on their own ...
    So, only the "breadwinners" of the RSFSR will benefit from the unification, and the RF itself does not bode well for such a unification ... it is completely independent .... 2014 showed that the RF can only rely on itself ...
  • Krasnoyarsk
    Krasnoyarsk 5 January 2021 19: 40
    +6
    To say that the article is controversial is to say nothing. In one place the author strikes not in the eyebrow, but in the eye, in the other he bears obvious nonsense on behalf of some people invented by him, and then skillfully breaks their ideas. And all the people invented by the author, for some reason, offer such nonsense that only the author could come up with.
    Here is the author complaining - = We will see how, with the tacit consent of the people of Kiev, the fascists will pass through the capital of Ukraine. Moreover, they will pass without hiding under their own banners, with unambiguous slogans and openly zigging. And those who do not perceive these ideas will stand by and watch. And then they, too, will simply look at how veterans-front-line soldiers are humiliated on May 9 ... =
    Well said? Yes! Clever? No! What's in the subtext? - What a bad people, unreasonable and cowardly. And the author knows that this procession is organized, paid for and has informational support from the media and the state. organs? Is it known that the Ministry of Internal Affairs is guarding them? That any encroachment, physical, on them, will turn into a real time for the one encroaching on this torchlight procession?
    Maybe the author will go to Ukraine and organize there a "fierce struggle against Bandera."
    Or is it easier to do it in a cozy office?
    Well, the author knows for sure that with an organized force, what is. Bandera, you can only fight with the same organized force. Where is she in Ukraine? Appeared in Donetsk and Lugansk - the result is obvious. Kharkiv residents missed the organizational issue - prisons are not for one hundred people, but maybe thousands, I don't know.
    Let us not blame unfoundedly, especially the whole people, they already have a hard life. It is not enough that the difficult financial situation is oppressive, but also the moral and psychological. And here we still speak contemptuously. This is unwise. It's unwise.
    As for the unification, I would not mind. But only under the "aegis" of the Soviet government. The bourgeois won't let us unite.
    A Sov. power, in my understanding, is what Crow wrote about. Only I would replace the word "nostalgia" with the word "dream". We are not nostalgic for software, we dream Oh ...
    1. depressant
      depressant 5 January 2021 21: 02
      +2
      I read everything, the whole forum. And finally, one worthy comment! hi
      In general, we need a big, detailed conversation about what is happening with us. While we are nostalgic here, the country is quietly going on unsightly. I follow the news.
      1. Lara Croft
        Lara Croft 6 January 2021 17: 21
        -1
        Quote: depressant
        I follow the news.

        And what's strange, you are not alone ...
  • Narak-zempo
    Narak-zempo 5 January 2021 23: 58
    +1
    Probably the most difficult year for all mankind in the XXI century has ended

    The author is a great optimist, however.
  • A_Lex
    A_Lex 5 January 2021 23: 58
    +2
    In general, it’s somehow not very pleasant, apparently, to live in conditions of light fascism, knowing that not so long ago he lived, albeit at the end, but socialism. Well, that is, if right away, from childhood, headlong into capitalism, I dabbled there and got used to it, all the more so since everyone around is floundering in the same way, it means that this is all natural, then, let's say, it's normal. Otherwise, yes, it turns out a kink ...

    On the other hand. Imagine. Hypothetically. The USSR-2 was created. And now you live like this under socialism. You are happy, right? But the first USSR had already been successfully destroyed by the Nazis. This means that the USSR-2 may well suffer the same fate ...

    And here you clearly understand that it will not be possible to live carefree and one might even say serenely in the USSR-2. Why? But because they destroyed the USSR-1 of their own. Yes, of course, they are so "their own", which is worse than strangers, but in fact they walked the same streets, sang the same songs, spoke the same correct words, waved their hand at a demonstration in the same way and assured with ardent enthusiasm of a guaranteed bright future ...

    You cannot enter the same river twice. USSR-2 cannot be the same as USSR-1. The USSR-1 was constantly afraid of external aggression. And before WWII and even more so after. USSR-2, remembering how the USSR-1 fell under the blows of internal fascists, who had memorized Lenin's multi-volume edition and made a brilliant career, the main enemy will have to constantly look inside. And having found one, destroy. Without all these gulags. Well, because as it turned out, your enemy is a hundred times more dangerous than someone else's ...

    Then someone sighed higher about a calm, measured life in the USSR-1, hoping to find all the same in the USSR-2, right? Naive ...
  • Vladimir Matveyev
    Vladimir Matveyev 6 January 2021 10: 06
    +3
    It is time for dbilis in dwarf countries to understand that large industry is only capable of large countries, where the population, roughly speaking, is at least 100 million. The dwarf countries are destined for the fate of servants. As soon as the former republics seceded from Russia, everyone bent down. If you want great things, enlarge, create an empire, an alliance, whatever.
  • Alecsandr
    Alecsandr 6 January 2021 11: 06
    -1
    Negative tendencies towards disintegration are latently ripening in Russia. Now if Russia is to be retained and not to be lost, that is the question of the current moment. If the country becomes a truly independent and strong power, then it might be worth thinking about the revival of some Union.