Military Review

How Reagan fought the "evil empire"

170

March 23, 1983 Ronald Reagan during a televised address to the nation, in which he announced the work of the United States on the Strategic Defense Initiative (SDI).


The economy of the States "floated". The arms race has greatly accelerated the approach of a new crisis of capitalism. The US failed to make a new military-technological revolution and achieve military superiority over the Russians. The union, contrary to the cries of the Jews and fools, on the contrary, had a lot of opportunities and reserves for a breakthrough into the future.

Decomposition of the Soviet elite


In the 1980s, the Americans launched an offensive in two main directions. The first is a powerful information war against the USSR. The second is an attempt to make a revolution in military affairs in order to scare the Kremlin. For both, America was able to impress the consciousness of the Soviet elite.

The point was that the rule of Khrushchev and Brezhnev relaxed the Soviet elite. Moscow abandoned Stalin's program, forced development, constant mobilization of the elite (with simultaneous renewal and purges), building a society of knowledge, service and creativity.

The Soviet nomenklatura considered that the positions achieved were sufficient for parity with the United States. The peace of the country is protected by the invincible Soviet army. The economy is booming. The party is pursuing a sensible policy. The country was lulled.

"Everything is calm in Baghdad"

“Nothing can happen with us, except good things”!

This was the "golden age" of the Union. Unlike the United States, the Soviet people had no fear of nuclear war. Life was constantly improving.

As a result, the country and the upper classes relaxed. But any stop in development is stagnation, and then degradation. This was used in the West.

After the relaxation of international tensions in the 1960s and 1970s, the West, led by the United States, from the late 1970s and 1980s, unexpectedly for Moscow, began to exert strong ideological, informational, political, economic and military pressure on the USSR.

This frightened part of the relaxed Soviet elite, which had already considered that the existing situation was forever. One part of the elite began to make ill-considered, erroneous actions, plunging the country into senseless and ineffective costs (for example, an arms race), increasing the imbalance in the national economy.

Another part of the Soviet leadership decided to reach a compromise with the United States at any cost. Agree with American "partners", even at the cost of concessions and surrender. De facto, a "fifth column", "rats", a detachment of accomplices of the enemy inside the country, ready to surrender all the achievements of socialism for the sake of personal and narrow-group interests, appears in the Soviet Union.

In the West, everything was calculated very well. We discovered the weak point of the USSR. The Soviet elite was drained of blood by the Great Patriotic War. A significant part of the new creative Soviet generation, brave, devoted to the country and people, energetic and technocratic, fell in the war. Many of those who remained and those who fought or worked in the rear took the principle as a basis for life:

"If only there was no war."

Others by the end of the 70s - the beginning of the 80s were deep elders with a weakened will, lack of energy, their minds lost flexibility and courage. They did not want a new battle with the West, no scientific and technical breakthroughs into the future, titanic achievements.
True, there were practically no traitors among this military generation.

The worst situation was with the younger generation - 30s and later. These did not fight, did not know the realities of pre-revolutionary Russia, did not see the blood of the Civil War, the "swamps" of the 1920s and were struck by decay. Someone believed that the USSR could be liberalized, brought closer to the West. That you can agree with the Americans, make Russia a part

"Developed world community".

Others believed that the USSR was sick and needed "perestroika" and "reforms". In this case, it is necessary to use the European (Western) experience. Someone just wanted to surrender the country and privatize the colossal Russian wealth in order to enjoy the "Western fairy tale".

This was already a young generation of the Soviet elite. She did not know hunger, poverty and war. "This country" and the people did not know and despised ("undeveloped scoop"). They did not know about the miracles hidden in the depths of the Soviet military-industrial complex, they prayed for the "market" and Western innovations. They believed in primitive Western theories about the market and democracy. We dreamed of becoming a part of the world elite, consuming like in the West (foreign rags, whiskey, cars and strip bars).

Of course, there were also patriots in the USSR. They were more numerous (ordinary members of the party and the Komsomol, ordinary citizens). But they found themselves without leaders and organization.

The majority did not even know that an undeclared war was going on against the country until the USSR collapsed. People worked, built and invented while the "worms" were subversive.

And the Americans clearly grasped all this. And they launched a powerful psychic, informational and military-economic war against Soviet civilization.

Reagan vs. the Soviets


Ronald Reagan spearheaded a new offensive against Russia.

He was born in 1911 in Tampico (Illinois) into a poor family. He spent his childhood and youth in small provincial towns. He showed interest in sports and acting, had the ability to speak. Under the influence of his mother, he was religious, belonged to the Protestant church.

After college, he worked for small radio stations in Iowa, covering sports events. It was during this time that he laid the foundation for the future.

"Great communicator".

In 1937 he passed screen tests and signed a contract with Warner Bros. Studios. During the Second World War, he was engaged in military propaganda. In 1945 he was transferred to the reserve with the rank of captain and returned to his acting career. During his entire film career, Reagan starred in 54 films. These were mostly low-budget films.

It was important for his political development that he was an active trade unionist. In 1947, Reagan became president of the Screen Actors Union. This activity taught him how to negotiate, developed a political gift: when to be tough and adamant, and when to come to an agreement. At this time, he actively collaborated with the FBI and showed himself to be an ardent Russophobe and anti-communist. This was the time of the American "witch hunt" - a violent struggle against any manifestation of sympathy for Russians, Russia and communism. As usual, many innocent people suffered during such a struggle.

At first, Reagan was a member of the Democratic Party, admired Roosevelt and his new course. During his tenure at General Electric (sort of like a political commissar), Reagan toured the company's factories across the country and delivered speeches to employees to foster employee loyalty to his corporation. He emphasized the importance of the individual, praised the ideals of American democracy, warned against the communist threat and the danger of the growth of the welfare state. In 1962, Reagan became a Republican (he had previously shown conservatism).

A firm hand policy


In 1967-1975. Reagan made his way to governor of California. The state was in dire straits: the previous Democrat governor practically bankrupted it with his extensive social programs. California suffered from unemployment and inflation. Students staged riots against the Vietnam War, blacks against racial segregation and poverty.

Reagan began to pursue a policy of firm hand. On students who ignored the ultimatum of the new governor -

"Go back to school or drop out!"

- the National Guard was abandoned. Black activists were pressured by police and racist non-governmental organizations. (Reagan gave them the green light.)

For a while, order in the state was restored. But in the economic realm, the Reagan blitzkrieg failed immediately. Reagan's team, which included the state's leading entrepreneurs, developed an anti-crisis program. It included a 10% reduction in state spending. Financing of educational institutions, hospitals, various social programs (employment, assistance to the unemployed, etc.) was stopped. The new administration has promised a balanced budget and tax cuts.

However, the very next year Reagan announced a rate hike, and by the end of his reign, the budget had swelled 280% over the previous year. This was due both to past debts and the appetites of the Reagan team, which subsidized their own businesses.

Contrary to his conservative campaign slogans, during his two terms as governor, taxes were raised, the state budget was doubled, and the number of civil servants was not reduced.

As governor, Reagan displayed many of the typical traits that later characterized his presidency. He emphasized his conservatism, knew how to set priorities, but did not interfere in the work of the administration and the legislative process. Reagan spoke directly to voters to pressure both houses of the legislature. In controversial issues, he knew how to act pragmatically, to come to an agreement.

Head of the White House


Reagan's talents (media specialist and speaker) paved the way for him to the White House. His pompous speeches found a great response in the Republican Party. The tough anti-communist stance pleased the bosses of the American military-industrial complex. The United States at that time needed a tough leader to give a decisive battle to the USSR, to save the West from the incipient crisis of capitalism.

This led Reagan to victory in the 1980 presidential election. He spoke with his already traditional slogans: tax cuts to stimulate the economy; reducing the role of the state in the life of the people; increased spending on national defense; focused attention on the Soviet threat. All of this was presented with great patriotic pathos.

Reagan had fundamental convictions (they came from religious ones), knew how to identify himself and his politics with American values. Reagan's energy, his flamboyant speeches and parody of the "Conservative Revolution" hit the American public.

During his first term in office (1981-1985), Reagan had two rings of advisers. The inner ring was made up of a “three”: D. Becker, E. Meese and M. Deaver. The second ring reported to the "troika", but did not have access to the president.

During the second term of the presidency (1985-1989), overcentralization was strengthened. The place of the "troika" was taken by one person - Reagan. The President was also greatly influenced by the energetic and power-hungry First Lady, Nancy Reagan. At the same time, she made horoscopes and trusted the advice of astrologers.

The authority of the president collapsed at that time due to the Iran-Contra scam, the collapse of the stock exchange, the growing budget deficit and foreign trade, and the growing problems in the economy (a new stage of the crisis of capitalism).

Reigonomics did not save America's economy. The United States is facing the threat of socio-economic collapse. The United States was saved from a possible catastrophe only by the collapse of the social bloc and the USSR.

Reducing tax rates in the spirit of Reagan's conservatism (Reaganomics) did not lead to a noticeable improvement in the situation of the economy and its growth. In doing so, it sparked a five-year speculative boom on Wall Street. The stock market boom was exacerbated by a wave of multibillion-dollar mergers and acquisitions - the Reagan administration virtually stopped enforcing anti-trust laws.

It also loosened control over utilities and lowered environmental and safety standards for industry. Social spending has been cut.

However, a combination of lower tax rates and a sharp increase in military spending led to large budget deficits. The budget has grown steadily, from $ 699 billion in 1980 to $ 859 billion in 1987. The budget deficit grew steadily and reached a record high of $ 1986 billion in 221.

The government was forced to borrow money on a scale unprecedented in peacetime. A lot of funds came from abroad, especially from Japan, which actively invested in America. The national debt rose from $ 997 billion to $ 2,85 trillion.

In the spirit of conservatism, there has been a huge increase in military spending directed against Russia. An unprecedented weapons program has been launched to put in place

"Evil empire"

so Reagan publicly called the USSR.

The secret services (and especially the CIA, led by W. Casey) were given complete freedom to stimulate resistance in the Soviet sphere of influence and support anti-communist partisan forces in third world countries.

How Reagan fought the "evil empire"

Ronald Reagan and Nancy Reagan during the inaugural parade in Washington, DC. 1981 year

USA on the verge of a systemic crisis


However, already in 1982, a strong opposition formed in Congress, which at first cut the growth of the military budget required by the president in half, and since 1984 completely eliminated it.

Public opinion began to change due to the growth of military spending, economic problems and budget deficits. Reagan himself has changed. During the second term, Alzheimer's disease clearly began to progress. The President even stopped recognizing his closest advisers. Due to memory problems and an inability to concentrate, the president almost completely retired.

White House policy was determined by the head of the CIA, William Casey and the first lady.

The economy of the States "floated".

The arms race has greatly accelerated the approach of a new crisis of capitalism. The US failed to make a new military-technological revolution and achieve military superiority over the Russians.

The union, contrary to the cries of the Jews and fools, on the contrary, had a lot of opportunities and reserves for a breakthrough into the future.

There was no tear. The Soviet army was the best in the world and guaranteed the security of Russia. The Soviet state fully retained its sphere of influence in the world and controlled the situation in Afghanistan. In Poland, General Jaruzelski firmly held the reins of power and defeated the anti-Soviet opposition.

The national economy of the USSR provided all the basic needs of citizens. There was no poverty, no hunger, education was the best in the world (or one of the best), good medicine. Science had breakthrough solutions in storehouses. Social guarantees were provided, including free housing. Crime was at the bottom of social life, as were various social illnesses. There was no problem of mass addiction.

In the mid-80s, the USSR had a powerful potential for a leap into the future.

First, the
it is the ability of the country, economy, science and people to mobilize and concentrate. We could solve a problem of any complexity in the shortest possible time.

Second, the huge production facilities, a body of excellent scientists, designers, engineers and technicians.

Third, Soviet science and education. The Soviet education system each year gave the country hundreds of thousands of new creators and creators. Their impulse had only to be directed correctly.

Fourthly, in the USSR there were unused technologies of organizational, managerial and mental technologies. With their help, it was possible to solve the problem of the sluggishness and slowness of the bureaucratic apparatus, to radically reduce it. Organizationally link thousands of organizations, design bureaus, enterprises, teams of various departments and institutions.

The problem was not in the people, science, education or the economy of the USSR. And at the top.

The Soviet elite did not want victory.

That is why America, itself already on the brink of a severe crisis, then took over the Soviets.

To be continued ...
Author:
Photos used:
https://ru.wikipedia.org/, https://www.gazeta.ru/
170 comments
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  1. apro
    apro 31 December 2020 04: 36
    +9
    Did Reagan fight the USSR? Yes, it was ... but the party members fought even more against the USSR for the monetization of their powers of power ... the rehearsals in the party abandoned ideology and began to promote their selfish interests ... just as Comrade Mao warned ...
    1. Anachoret
      Anachoret 31 December 2020 10: 46
      -2
      In the 90s, it suddenly turned out that many representatives of the Soviet elites (including the generals / colonels of the KGB) had taught and kept their children in the West from the depths of 80.
      So you also need to think about where the Yakovlevs and Arbatovs came from (the gray cardinal of the "warming", thanks to which Mars, Sneakers and Pepsi Cola appeared in Soviet stores)
      By the way, CIA analysts predicted that it was from the Arbatov family that a pseudo-reactionary KGB colonel would be nominated for the presidency of Russia after the EBN.
      1. ccsr
        ccsr 31 December 2020 11: 29
        +11
        Quote: Anchorite
        In the 90s, it suddenly turned out that many representatives of the Soviet elites (including the generals / colonels of the KGB) had taught and kept their children in the West from the depths of 80.

        This is a lie, because a very small number of people were sent to the West to study, and as a rule they were not from the families of the party elite, because they were afraid of provocations from the Western special services. Moreover, there was a huge scandal when Kirilenko's son went hunting in Africa and it was posted in the Western media, so there is no need to invent something that was not even close.

        Quote: Anchorite
        By the way, CIA analysts predicted that it was from the Arbatov family that a pseudo-reactionary KGB colonel would be nominated for the presidency of Russia after the EBN.

        Actually, this is nonsense, because their analysts did not even anticipate the collapse of the USSR, and it was a complete surprise to them that this would happen so quickly and bloodlessly.
        It looks like you are still that "expert" of the Soviet period ...
        1. Anachoret
          Anachoret 31 December 2020 11: 38
          -5
          This is a lie, because an extremely small number of people were sent to the West to study,

          read the biography of Alexander Lyubimov (Vzglyad program, and then, a State Duma deputy) and there are about a dozen of them, offhand, to name from the more or less famous.
          The second example from life. I grew up in the regional center in a "police house" where local KGB leaders were neighbors and their grandchildren had already studied for several years or already worked in the States or Germany by the 90s. It's just that in the 80s it was not said out loud.
          It looks like you are still that "expert" of the Soviet period ...

          From which "Soviet period" did you take EBN presidency?
          1. ccsr
            ccsr 31 December 2020 11: 57
            +4
            Quote: Anchorite
            read the biography of Alexander Lyubimov (Vzglyad program, and then, a State Duma deputy) and there are about a dozen of them,

            A dozen to 286 million people was really "a lot" for those times. By the way, you are clearly not in the subject, because you do not know that they were often sent to study abroad on an order, and the selection was the most severe, including in the line of checking relatives.

            Quote: Anchorite
            I grew up in the regional center in a "police house" where local KGB leaders were neighbors and their grandchildren had already studied for several years or already worked in the States or Germany by the 90s.

            And what is so surprising here, if a large number of our citizens worked abroad with children and these children knew foreign languages ​​much better and those countries where they might have to go to study? I myself lived for almost five years in Germany during my service, and I know that many children from military families spoke much better conversational German than their peers in the USSR. Naturally, they had a better chance of passing the foreign language exam with a specialization in the Romance direction.
            Quote: Anchorite
            It's just that in the 80s it was not said out loud.

            Well, everyone was not so dense then, and they listened to radio Sweden, BBC, Radio Liberty, and foreign newspapers were sold in kiosks, which I bought to pass "thousands" in German at the university. And a huge number of our sailors, builders, artists, athletes in general have been wandering abroad for years, and have seen everything with their own eyes. You yourself lived at that time to talk about it and how badly our people lived then?
            1. Anachoret
              Anachoret 31 December 2020 13: 25
              +2
              1) An aggressive, but organized minority, according to Western guidelines, is more effective than a passive majority.
              And at some point it turned out that the foreign policy of Russia was determined not by 286 million people, but by quite a dozen of Andryusha Kozyrevs. And in each direction at the right moment there was "the same dozen" Yakovlevs and Kalugins.

              2) As for studying and living abroad, I did not mean the GDR. This is a completely different story. As our time also shows, studying abroad (Britain, the USA, France and the Federal Republic of Germany) does not provide the best level of knowledge and education, but contributes to the socialization of the student in the local community. Just observations from life. And knowledge of German or English is not an indicator of professionalism, but only an additional bonus, like the driver's license.

              3) What does the denseness to do with the attempt to root the children and grandchildren of the Soviet elites in the Western community? For example, in my house of 20 families in 5 children and grandchildren of KGB leaders lived and studied in capitalist countries (and these are only those whom I knew personally and grew up together). You are moving away from direct answers. Yes, they listened to Seva Novgorodtsev and Evgeny Aronov and wore clothes from abroad en masse, listened to Queen and Juraj Hip and no one saw this as a problem. But these are facts from another opera) It's one thing to eat snickers, drink heineken and listen to scorpions on Panasonic at home. It is completely different to make money power and connections in one country so that children / grandchildren can live well in another (ideological, political and economic enemy). Everything in Brzezinski, "Is it still their elite or ours already?"
              1. ccsr
                ccsr 31 December 2020 13: 41
                0
                Quote: Anchorite
                And at some point it turned out that the foreign policy of Russia was determined not by 286 million people, but by quite a dozen of Andryusha Kozyrevs. And in each direction at the right moment there was "the same dozen" Yakovlevs and Kalugins.

                So these are not from the nomenclature of the Central Committee and the Politburo, but from the strata of the most ordinary citizens of the country. The same Yakovlev was born into a peasant family, and you are trying to tell something about the children of the nomenklatura here.
                Quote: Anchorite
                As for studying and living abroad, I did not mean the GDR. This is a completely different story.

                No other story - even some officers in the German military academy studied here under an intergovernmental agreement. It was the same with our students, who studied in socialist countries and in capitalist countries at that time. And then they all returned to the USSR and worked normally.

                Quote: Anchorite
                For example, in my house of 20 families in 5 children and grandchildren of KGB leaders lived and studied in capitalist countries (and these are only those whom I knew personally and grew up together). You are moving away from direct answers.

                Don't fool me with your house, because I knew dozens of people who worked abroad, and their ancestors had nothing to do with the party nomenclature, but on the contrary were from the working class. And they returned to the country as patriots as they were before leaving. Even with the withdrawal of troops from the Western Group of Forces, only about one thousand people fled to the west, and this is taking into account that there were half a million Soviet citizens there. And then some came back.
                So there is no need to pull the example of the current children of the elite on the children of the elite of the Soviet period - these are completely different cases, if you take the children of the same Mikoyan or Ustinov as an example.
    2. zenion
      zenion 31 December 2020 16: 03
      0
      America is good, the USSR is a bad country. Two girls, one good and one bad, began throwing stones at people from the roof. The bad hit two times out of ten, and the good hit six times out of ten. This is how good overcomes evil.
  2. Cherry Nine
    Cherry Nine 31 December 2020 05: 42
    -1
    Small question. Who is the author counting on when talking about the awesome life in the Union of the 80s? Readers born in the 90s and 00s? Those who drank all their brains in the happy 80s?
    1. apro
      apro 31 December 2020 05: 46
      +1
      Quote: Cherry Nine
      Those who drank all their brains in the happy 80s?

      Yes, Russian ... to see and remember, you have nothing ...
      1. mr.ZinGer
        mr.ZinGer 31 December 2020 09: 31
        +5
        I remembered, when I was driving to my aunt in Ryazan, I was carrying two bags of sausages.
        There was a shortage of everything, from food to books, on TV or "Lenin University of millions" or "The Soviet Union through the eyes of foreign friends." And ...
        , everything must stop.
        1. apro
          apro 31 December 2020 09: 39
          +8
          Quote: mr.ZinGer
          Everything was a deficit

          I don't even know what to say ... I don't understand how I lived in the USSR until I was 20 ... and didn't die of hunger and cold.
          I really didn't buy books. I took them to read the library .. on TV and in the movies I watched good films. Which I am happy to watch now. I was dressed and shod like everyone else. I didn’t realize the problems because of this. And it didn’t create a problem.
          1. Doctor
            Doctor 31 December 2020 10: 43
            +1
            I don't even know what to say ... I don't understand how I lived in the USSR until I was 20 ... and didn't die of hunger and cold.
            I really didn't buy books. I took them to read the library .. on TV and in the movies I watched good films. Which I am happy to watch now. I was dressed and shod like everyone else. I didn’t realize the problems because of this. And it didn’t create a problem.

            Did you serve in the army? laughing
            1. apro
              apro 31 December 2020 10: 44
              +7
              Quote: Arzt
              Did you serve in the army?

              And he served in the army ... but what difference does that make?
              1. Doctor
                Doctor 31 December 2020 11: 09
                +2
                And he served in the army ... but what difference does that make?

                Not everyone is so lucky. Someone didn't give out pants, they had to earn money.
                And then try to buy from ...

                1. apro
                  apro 31 December 2020 11: 15
                  +8
                  Quote: Arzt
                  Not everyone is so lucky. Someone didn't give out pants, they had to earn money.
                  And then try to buy from ...

                  Rafl bought his first jeans 85 or 84 for 110 rubles without queuing ... without pulling ... but under the control of my mother ... yes, I earned in the summer ... or pounded boxes ... or at an industrial plant ... I was engaged in ounda ... but 25 rubles per week ..
                  1. Doctor
                    Doctor 31 December 2020 11: 26
                    +1
                    Rafl bought his first jeans 85 or 84 for 110 rubles without queuing ... without pulling ... but under the control of my mother ... yes, I earned in the summer ... or pounded boxes ... or at an industrial plant ... I was engaged in ounda ... but 25 rubles per week ..

                    I tell you, you're in luck.
                    Buy imported pants for a monthly salary. laughing
                    1. apro
                      apro 31 December 2020 11: 38
                      +6
                      Quote: Arzt
                      What a score.
                      Buy imported pants for a monthly salary.

                      Well, the salary is not monthly ... in those years from 180 to 240. I got about 300 as an assistant driver, but at 88. and what does it mean lucky ??? among my peers who wanted jeans to wear.
                      Today, buying jeans of the same quality is a problem ... Chinese Turkish by no comparison ... there is simply no real Cato.
                      1. Doctor
                        Doctor 31 December 2020 11: 46
                        +1
                        Today, buying jeans of the same quality is a problem ... Chinese Turkish by no comparison ... there is simply no real Cato.

                        Yes, I remember this quality, rag rag. Or tarpaulin sackcloth.
                        This is not the question. And the fact that now these pants, like dirt, any companies and price tags and everything else too.
                        And I hunted Tsebo's shoes for a month. wassat
                      2. apro
                        apro 31 December 2020 11: 49
                        +1
                        Quote: Arzt
                        And I hunted Tsebo's shoes for a month.

                        I remember. 27 rubles on a heel. I dragged for 6 years or more ... but without a hunt and ambush. I saw money and begged I bought it.
                      3. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 31 December 2020 12: 00
                        +7
                        Quote: Arzt
                        And I hunted Tsebo's shoes for a month.

                        Didn't you want to work? 89th year. 250 rubles as a combine operator's assistant. At least for a carpathian moped, at least a dozen coats, at least for jeans stripped by an American trucker.
                      4. Doctor
                        Doctor 31 December 2020 12: 03
                        -7
                        Didn't you want to work? 89th year. 250 rubles as a combine operator's assistant. At least for a carpathian moped, at least a dozen coats, at least for jeans stripped by an American trucker.

                        What's the problem now? Unlearn your degree as a doctor and welcome to the covid hospital. 10 shifts 12 hours each - 317 tr.
                        A year - and you are in a Mercedes.
                        Could you do that in the USSR? In a Mercedes? laughing

                      5. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 31 December 2020 12: 08
                        +11
                        Quote: Arzt
                        10 shifts 12 hours each - 317 tr.

                        Tell this to my sister, who has worked as a nurse for 30 years. She will laugh. If Covid allows, who she got sick a week ago.
                        Quote: Arzt
                        A year - and you are in a Mercedes.

                        On the lisapeda.
                      6. Doctor
                        Doctor 31 December 2020 12: 19
                        0
                        Tell this to my sister, who has worked as a nurse for 30 years. She will laugh. If Covid allows, who she got sick a week ago.

                        Nurses did not flourish in the USSR either.

                        On the lisapeda.

                        This is just about the Union.

                        P.S. Your sister, a speedy recovery. love
                      7. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 31 December 2020 12: 20
                        +5
                        Quote: Arzt
                        Nurses did not flourish in the USSR either.

                        What did you mutter about the Mercedes?
                      8. Doctor
                        Doctor 31 December 2020 12: 26
                        -1
                        What did you mutter about the Mercedes?

                        Kovidny hospitals in Moscow and the Moscow region are staffed almost completely with middle staff. We came from all regions.
                        And it is not surprising with a salary of 160 - 170 tyrs.

                        Mercedes is not a Mercedes, and the parking lots at the clinics are full of new Hyundai and Skodas.
                        Soviet Zhiguli do not take anything. They are afraid of the evil eye ... laughing
                      9. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 31 December 2020 12: 43
                        +1
                        Quote: Arzt
                        Soviet Zhiguli do not take anything.

                        Are you stuck in time? 30 years have passed since the times of the Soviet Zhiguli.
                        Did our English Niva policemen just buy in the 80s?
                      10. Doctor
                        Doctor 31 December 2020 12: 48
                        +1
                        Are you stuck in time? 30 years have passed since the times of the Soviet Zhiguli.
                        Did our English Niva policemen just buy in the 80s?

                        Of course, the policemen can "Niva" just like that, they are English. wink
                        And a simple Soviet policeman could do this: laughing

                      11. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 31 December 2020 12: 51
                        +4
                        Quote: Arzt
                        And a simple Soviet policeman could do this:

                        What year is this? However, in the early 80s, motorcycles were still flickering. And even at the end - at the precinct. And what are you against a motorcycle?
                      12. Doctor
                        Doctor 31 December 2020 13: 16
                        -1
                        What year is this? However, in the early 80s, motorcycles were still flickering. And even at the end - at the precinct.

                        Vladimir, these are all particulars.

                        In 1988, I had the opportunity to attend a closed talk by a well-known economist on the state of affairs in the country. I got there by accident, we were conscripts, active Komsomol members, dressed in civilian clothes and put on a gallery in the hall for extras.

                        At that time, I was not interested in macroeconomic problems at all, but after 5 minutes we all listened to the speaker and secretly glanced at each other.

                        From the very beginning, the speaker bore vehement anti-Sovietism. Of course, I don't remember the exact numbers, but I will give some conclusions.

                        1. The real ruble / dollar exchange rate has nothing to do with the exchange rate in the Soviet bank. The ruble is in a deep ... hole.

                        2. The real productivity of labor has nothing to do with that which is written in the newspaper Trud. Labor discipline at the bottom.

                        3. Agriculture is bent, without foreign purchases of food, we will be kirdyk in the near future.

                        4. The army consumes up to 60% of the country's resources, during the war in Afghanistan there were periods when we COMPLETELY chose stocks of rifle cartridges.

                        5. Space is absolutely unprofitable, NONE of the orbital station has fully fulfilled its functions. The Energia-Buran project, taking into account the subcontractors, takes 1/8 of the country's budget.

                        6. All this has escalated since 1984, when oil prices, after a dizzying rise in the 70s from 3 to 35 bucks per barrel, fell to 17, and the country, accustomed to fattening, was forced to borrow on the foreign market first 15, and then 50 billion dollars.
                        (Now the situation is similar)

                        7. Chernobyl has steeply added a kick down.

                        They tried to start perestroika even under Brezhnev, but the old people resisted.
                        If you do not cut costs, our steam locomotive is waiting for this:



                        PS As we know, expenses began to be cut but did not have time ...
                      13. strannik1985
                        strannik1985 31 December 2020 13: 32
                        +2
                        Bredyatina. Can you tell me how an army of ~ 100 thousand people can shoot stocks of ammunition for CO, if production did not stop, and the peacetime army is many times larger?
                        And if we compare with the situation in 5 years ... good
                      14. Doctor
                        Doctor 31 December 2020 13: 41
                        0
                        Bredyatina. Can you tell me how an army of ~ 100 thousand people can shoot stocks of ammunition for CO, if production did not stop, and the peacetime army is many times larger?
                        And if we compare with the situation in 5 years ...

                        Nikolai Ryzhkov, the then prime minister, was instructed to draw up a report on the costs of the Afghan war in 1984-1987. "
                        He made up. But they did not dare to publish.

                        As B. Gromov said: “Probably even incomplete statistics turned out to be so overwhelming that they did not dare to publish them. Obviously, at present, no one is able to give an exact figure that could characterize the expenses of the Soviet Union on the maintenance of the Afghan revolution. "

                        According to Marshal Akhromeev, we spent 10 billion on Afghanistan in 36 years of war, and the Americans spent 3,7 billion on supporting the opposition.

                        So draw conclusions about how wars are won.
                        And think about Syria ... wink
                      15. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 31 December 2020 14: 32
                        +3
                        Quote: Arzt
                        According to Marshal Akhromeev, we spent 10 billion on Afghanistan in 36 years of war, and the Americans spent 3,7 billion on supporting the opposition.

                        According to Zaripov, we lost a similar amount in manpower during the six months of the war with Chechnya.
                      16. strannik1985
                        strannik1985 31 December 2020 14: 43
                        +1
                        AND? TO Your which statement is it sideways? The same United States has had dozens of unsuccessful conflicts for itself, and is still alive and well.
                        And if you compare the position of the average man in the street in 1990 and 1995, it becomes not at all funny - people are being held for idiots.
                      17. Bolt cutter
                        Bolt cutter 31 December 2020 20: 20
                        +1
                        According to Marshal Akhromeev, we spent 10 billion on Afghanistan in 36 years of war, and the Americans spent 3,7 billion on supporting the opposition.
                        They built roads, hospitals and schools for them. By the way, one familiar Afghan "refugee" said that the village (that is, almost all) Afghans was simply infuriated, especially education from the infidels. And the Americans issued a dozen green cards for "their" and their families, and that's all.
                2. Esoteric
                  Esoteric 1 January 2021 08: 57
                  +1
                  And by the way, remember these cars on the city streets? Where did they go, I barely found a photo:
                3. Ua3qhp
                  Ua3qhp 2 January 2021 12: 24
                  0
                  Now they look like this.
  3. Doctor
    Doctor 31 December 2020 12: 36
    +2
    Didn't you want to work? 89th year. 250 rubles as a combine operator's assistant.

    You, like APRO, are also lucky. You lived in some other fantastic country where any dude with no education could get 250.

    One of the acquaintances of my parents' environment received similar money.
    But this was a district-level party boss living in a 4-room apartment overlooking Lenin Square.
    The rest lived at 80-160. belay

    And again, the goods still needed to be obtained ...
  4. Mordvin 3
    Mordvin 3 31 December 2020 12: 59
    +6
    Quote: Arzt
    But this was a district-level party boss living in a 4-room apartment overlooking Lenin Square.
    The rest lived at 80-160.

    What a passage! My mother received 120 as a cashier. Dad was a mechanic, about 300, and when he was sent to a collective farm, it even reached 400-450.
    And my bath was given an apartment-four with an area of ​​80 square meters for four, and if you say that by pull, then I will answer that he played cards on the floor, under us lived a welded one, above us - the deputy director, opposite the welded, plasterer-painter , opposite the zamdir - turner.
  5. Doctor
    Doctor 31 December 2020 13: 19
    -2
    What a passage! My mother received 120 as a cashier. Dad was a mechanic, about 300, and when he was sent to a collective farm, it even reached 400-450.

    I say Dreamland.
    450 - the salary of Professor Baumanka.

    I squeezed out 250 for the first time in a construction brigade. But in a month and a half, and in work on concrete.
  6. Mordvin 3
    Mordvin 3 31 December 2020 13: 28
    +5
    Quote: Arzt
    and in working on concrete.

    Hello. I am, by the way, a master of concrete products. Diploma. In practice, he waved with a crowbar so that you never dreamed of it. And about 450 ... Ask about APO Novomoskovskoe.
  7. Doctor
    Doctor 31 December 2020 13: 35
    +2
    Hello. I am, by the way, a master of concrete products. Diploma. In practice, he waved with a crowbar so that you never dreamed of it. And about 450 ... Ask about APO Novomoskovskoe.

    Well, of course there were high patches in the USSR, I do not argue. SeverA, mines, the same military. I don’t know for sure, they say the SSBN commander received more secretary general.

    But in general, the people lived mediocre. Especially in comparison with the West.
    There were pluses, social services, free education, medicine, and a lot of things!

    I always say, if we did not strive to make the whole world happy with socialism, we could very well build a super Switzerland! fellow
  8. Mordvin 3
    Mordvin 3 31 December 2020 13: 42
    +4
    Quote: Arzt
    There were pluses, social services, free education, medicine, and a lot of things!

    There were more pluses. I already hesitated to look for a job. 10 thousand rubles for 48 hours a week, 4 thousand for a 36-hour ... How is it?
  9. Doctor
    Doctor 31 December 2020 13: 53
    0
    There were more pluses. I already hesitated to look for a job. 10 thousand rubles for 48 hours a week, 4 thousand for a 36-hour ... How is it?

    You don't live there. Change the place.

    I am still grateful to my first political officer, he instilled a simple idea into our heads with a hot iron:
    "Comrades, in this country you can live with dignity only in 2 places, in Moscow and the nearest Moscow region!"

    The communists, they just told the people nonsense, they were always honest among themselves! laughing
  10. Mordvin 3
    Mordvin 3 31 December 2020 13: 56
    +6
    Quote: Arzt
    You don't live there. Change the place.

    Your mother ... I have already written here more than once that I am looking after a disabled person. Change location? And where, I wonder?
  11. Mordvin 3
    Mordvin 3 31 December 2020 13: 52
    +1
    Quote: Arzt
    But in general, the people lived mediocre. Especially in comparison with the West.

    Why don't you compare with India, for example? With Pakistan?
  12. Doctor
    Doctor 31 December 2020 13: 55
    +1
    Why don't you compare with India, for example? With Pakistan?

    Yes, it is possible with the mumbo-jumbo tribe.

    But we are talking about an exemplary society of victorious socialism! wink
  13. Mordvin 3
    Mordvin 3 31 December 2020 13: 58
    +1
    Quote: Arzt
    But we are talking about an exemplary society of victorious socialism!

    In short, you're tired of me. Happy New Year!
  14. Sugar Honeyovich
    Sugar Honeyovich 31 December 2020 16: 26
    +1
    Quote: Arzt
    Why don't you compare with India, for example? With Pakistan?

    Yes, it is possible with the mumbo-jumbo tribe.

    But we are talking about an exemplary society of victorious socialism!

    Best of all - with the whole world together. What was the standard of living in the USSR against the general background, and not in comparison with the countries selected according to a certain principle?
    "It is undoubtedly true that most countries with a market, capitalist economy (more precisely, with elements of such an economy) are in a miserable state, stagnant poverty. They are much poorer than Russia, which is only entering the market path, although there are millionaires there (as Rejection of socialism in itself does not guarantee either economic prosperity or decent living conditions "(E.T. Gaidar)
  15. Cherry Nine
    Cherry Nine 31 December 2020 19: 31
    -2
    Quote: Sahar Medovich
    What was the standard of living in the USSR against the general background,

    Against the background of the liberated colonies? Very good.
    Quote: Sahar Medovich
    The rejection of socialism in itself does not guarantee either economic prosperity or decent living conditions ”(E.T. Gaidar)

    Yegor Timurych spoke the truth, and they did not like him for that. Although not only for that.
  16. Sugar Honeyovich
    Sugar Honeyovich 31 December 2020 19: 39
    0
    Quote: Cherry Nine
    Against the background of the liberated colonies?

    Against the backdrop of the entire planet.
    Quote: Cherry Nine
    Although not only for this

    And even mostly not for that.
  17. Cherry Nine
    Cherry Nine 31 December 2020 19: 45
    0
    "the whole planet" is 3 billion Chinese and Indians, billion + Africans and billion Latin Americans.

    Against this background, not bad. Although now, against the background of the Chinese, some of the Latin Americans and some of the Africans are no longer so good.
  18. Sugar Honeyovich
    Sugar Honeyovich 31 December 2020 20: 42
    0
    What and speech.
  19. Plantagenet
    Plantagenet 1 January 2021 14: 38
    -1
    “In the same place, in Belgorod, I was just told how one of the best lecturers in the neighboring Kursk region got burned. It turns out that in a remote village he came across, perhaps, the only intellectual who asked the question: “Why is there still no revolution in the West, in industrialized countries? and instead, revolutions win in backward countries like Russia? " Considering the general level of the audience, the lecturer decided to explain this situation to people in the most primitive and understandable way: “Imagine two dogs: one is hungry, unleash her, she will rush like mad after a piece of meat, and the other is full, you will show her food, but she only wags her tail. " To his misfortune, in the village there was not only one intellectual, but at least one informer. The metaphor was reported where it should be, and that was the end of the lecturing career of this fellow. "

    Georgy Ilyich Mirsky “Life in three eras”
  20. Aviator_
    Aviator_ 1 January 2021 22: 51
    0
    could very well build a super Switzerland!

    In principle, it is impossible to build a second "super Switzerland", neither the USSR, nor China, nor Japan, anyone. There is no need for a second such country in the world. There simply won't be enough funds for it, and is Switzerland really needed a competitor? Here is the second (third, fourth ...) Albania can be built.
  21. Fan-fan
    Fan-fan 31 December 2020 18: 32
    +3
    Imported shoes, jeans, but many wanted to buy and it was expensive. And the question is to the authorities, that they did not see that the people "wallow" in jeans and shoes, that it was impossible to resolve and organize any cooperatives for the production of this consumer goods? Brainless worms were in power at that time - this is the main conclusion. By the way, now the authorities are the same.
  • ccsr
    ccsr 31 December 2020 11: 40
    +9
    Quote: apro
    I was engaged in ounda, but 25 rubles per week.

    I earned my first money in the seventies on construction, and it was 40 rubles, but for a part-time laborer, i.e. RUB 80 we were officially paid for two with my friend. We worked for a month in the summer for half a day (on school holidays), and it was decent money at that time, because good Czech trousers then cost 10 rubles. My parents bought them for me when I gave them what I earned. There was no hunger, alcohol was sold from the opening of shops, although the people did not live richly, no one rummaged through the garbage cans. By the way, at that time the junk sellers were still driving around the city in carts, and gave all sorts of little things in the form of whistles, small money, etc. if they were brought in scrap metal or old clothes.
    1. Fan-fan
      Fan-fan 31 December 2020 18: 46
      +2
      In our city, gypsies traveled in carts and collected empty bottles of 10 kopecks each. And the people massively handed over bottles to them, since there were few collection points for glass containers, although they accepted bottles of 12 kopecks.
      1. Mordvin 3
        Mordvin 3 31 December 2020 19: 49
        +1
        Quote: Fan-Fan
        since there were few collection points for glass containers,

        And we had a reception center right near the school. With a mesh fence. So we climbed up, stole the bottles, and then handed them over to the same place.
  • Bourgeois 1963
    Bourgeois 1963 31 December 2020 12: 59
    +1
    In any society, as in any flock or herd, there are individuals of various types of psychological state. For myself, I divide people into four categories.
    1. Super passive - people who have entered a marginal state due to addiction to alcohol, drugs, as well as psychologically unstable people by nature. According to my subjective estimates, there are no more than 5%.
    2. Sustainable liability - people who accept life as it is, and do not seek to change it if this requires significant efforts or risks. There are about 70% of such people.
    3. Persistently active people - ready to make significant efforts, endure hardships and take risks to achieve the goal. There are a little more than 10% of them in society.
    4. Super active people - ready to go to any lengths to achieve both righteous and criminal goals. Less than 5% of such daredevils are born, and even less by the time they reach adulthood. Many leave young.
    Accordingly, for each of these groups there is an ideal form of society's existence. For a passive person, satisfying basic needs is happiness. For him, socialism made in the USSR is the apotheosis of being. Whereas for an active person, the inability to satisfy the needs for development and contact is a psychological tragedy. And it is naturally easier to realize these needs under capitalism like the United States, Great Britain or Singapore. Therefore, I do not think that it is worth arguing where life was better under developed socialism like the USSR or under capitalism like the United States. You just need to understand that the focus on passivity leads society to degradation, while a large imbalance in super activity can deprive a large part of society of meeting basic needs. Today the Scandinavians are closest to the ideal. And the primitive feudal capitalism of modern Russia should not be considered at all, it was accidentally created and introduced as an artificial organ, by an absurd coincidence of circumstances, into the living flesh of society, and as time shows, it initially had no opportunities for evolutionary development.
  • Mordvin 3
    Mordvin 3 31 December 2020 11: 53
    +2
    Quote: mr.ZinGer
    I remembered, when I was driving to my aunt in Ryazan, I was carrying two bags of sausages.

    Did they bring Ryazan sausage? And I remembered how, standing in line for meat in Maskva, I heard a hiss: Come in large numbers here ...
    By the way, if you cover the entire Moscow region with kumpol, then a lot of people will rest, because there is not enough oxygen.
  • Comrade
    Comrade 31 December 2020 06: 08
    +11
    Quote: Cherry Nine
    Who is the author counting on when talking about the awesome life in the Union of the 80s?

    What's wrong here?
    There was no poverty, no hunger,
    education was the best in the world (or one of the best),
    good medicine.
    Science had breakthrough solutions in storehouses.
    Social guarantees were provided, including free housing.
    Crime was at the bottom of social life, as were various social illnesses.
    There was no problem of mass addiction.

    Not everything has been mentioned here yet, to tell about everything - there is not enough hair on the head to list what was in the Union and what is not today in the post-Soviet space.
    Want an example?
    We lived in Ukraine, for our one-room apartment (free) we paid a maximum of two rubles and fifty kopecks for everything about everything. It was in winter, when a lot of light was burning. I had a scholarship of fifty rubles. I received another ninety rubles in an orphanage, where I worked as a carpenter a couple of times a week.
    Compare today's post-Soviet student scholarship to the average utility bill.
    And such examples, colleague, a dime a dozen will be named to you by those who, at the break of 1970-80, did not run under the table on foot.
    1. Cartalon
      Cartalon 31 December 2020 06: 28
      -6
      Of course, there was not enough money for food for an average Soviet family, but that food still had to be obtained, with clothes everything was worse and more difficult to get.
      The family of an engineer and an employee with a child could not afford large purchases from the word at all. Especially my personal recollections, it was small, of course, but as my parents I remember the family budget.
      1. nikvic46
        nikvic46 31 December 2020 06: 51
        +3
        Michael: What? You walked in rags. For example, we even had hanygs in civilian suits. Not all of them, of course. But those who did not want to work at all.
      2. Cherry Nine
        Cherry Nine 31 December 2020 07: 39
        +3
        Quote: Cartalon
        Of course, the average Soviet family did not have enough money for food,

        A person who pushes about prices in the USSR is either illiterate or a cheat. The basic difference between a planned economy and a market economy is that in a planned economy the money and commodity supply are not balanced. That is, what you can buy is not determined by how much money you have. People who have caught the "struggle with privileges" know this very well. That is, they deliberately lie.

        PS It was not personal aggression directed at you.
        1. demo
          demo 31 December 2020 08: 08
          +11
          Sorry for interfering.
          The basic difference between a planned economy and a market economy is that in a planned economy the money and commodity supply are not balanced. That is, what you can buy is not determined by how much money you have.
          Are commodity and money supply balanced in a market economy?
          How, then, is the overproduction to be explained?
          And then the sale of goods below the cost, and, in the end, bankruptcy?
          The system of the planned economy has shown its effectiveness and was adopted by the not the weakest economy of Sweden.
          I haven't dealt with these issues for a long time. But informatively prepared back in the 80-90s of the last millennium.
          So crises of overproduction are birthmarks of capitalism. It seems - Marx said.
          1. Cherry Nine
            Cherry Nine 31 December 2020 09: 02
            -3
            Quote: demo
            Are commodity and money supply balanced in a market economy?

            Excuse me, do you read your own text?
            Quote: demo
            How, then, is the overproduction to be explained?
            And then the sale of goods below the cost

            This is exactly what the self-balancing of money and commodity supply in a market economy looks like. Like deflation or inflation.
            Quote: demo
            The system of the planned economy has shown its effectiveness and was adopted by the not the weakest economy of Sweden.
            I haven't dealt with these issues for a long time. But informatively prepared back in the 80-90s of the last millennium.

            Lousy, I see you're prepared. If you confuse the usual lies about "Swedish socialism" (which socialism is nothing more than a figure of speech) and the "Swedish planned economy", which was never even in the fantasies of Live Journalists.
            1. demo
              demo 31 December 2020 11: 06
              +7
              And I do not present myself as a specialist in this area.
              And I asked the question - where is there a model that would be in equilibrium?
              This interested me most of all.
              And you are here "War and Peace" in 4 volumes ...
              1. Cherry Nine
                Cherry Nine 31 December 2020 19: 42
                0
                Quote: demo
                where is there a model that would be in equilibrium?

                The model, which is in equilibrium, is in the cemetery. A living economy is characterized by a cyclical nature of several types simultaneously. Although it is possible to do without cyclicality, if there is a State Planning Committee.

                True, when there is Gosplan, instead of cyclicality, it usually turns out to be stagnation, turning into recession.
                1. demo
                  demo 31 December 2020 20: 17
                  +3
                  I agree to the State Plan.
                  But there was also a state supply.
                  Over time, they quickly realized that people would take everything they could to them.
                  His father, the head of a road construction trust, told how he managed to "knock out" for his enterprise scarce rubber for trucks, bitumen for asphalt-concrete, cement, inert and a lot of things without which the plan could not be fulfilled. And failure to fulfill the plan is a ticket to the table and from the post of the march.
                  I ask, wasn't it scary to pay money in Moscow? Not afraid?
                  Scary, he says, he was afraid, but where to go?

                  The state plan could only be a planning tool, and the Gossnab a tool to ensure the implementation of plans, if the repressive machine that existed would vigilantly control the leaders, and the party bodies had to pursue a policy of mandatory movement to other areas of activity (so as not to "settle down")
                  Much could be improved ...
                  But apparently, not destiny.
          2. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
            Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 31 December 2020 11: 24
            +4
            Quote: demo
            The system of the planned economy has shown its effectiveness and was adopted by the not the weakest economy of Sweden.

            No "system of planned economy" was adopted by the Swedes. State participation concerned the sphere of redistribution; there can be no talk of any analogues of the Soviet State Planning Committee at all.
            1. demo
              demo 31 December 2020 18: 15
              +1
              State participation concerned the realm of redistribution ...
              Can you give more details. What exactly was redistributed?
              1. Cherry Nine
                Cherry Nine 31 December 2020 19: 28
                -1
                It means that in Northern Europe there is a high tax burden, and not the State Planning Committee, Gossnab and the state price for eggs.
      3. Gardamir
        Gardamir 31 December 2020 08: 51
        +5
        The family of an engineer and an employee with a child could not afford large purchases from the word at all.
        And now?
      4. Sugar Honeyovich
        Sugar Honeyovich 31 December 2020 10: 17
        -3
        Quote: Cartalon
        The family of an engineer and an employee with a child could not afford large purchases from the word at all

        What, for example, are considered large purchases?
        1. Cartalon
          Cartalon 31 December 2020 11: 45
          +4
          Well, for example, all 80 dad repaired a wonderful rainbow TV, the picture is right in front of his eyes, how he is poking around with it, what do you think about what it says?
          1. Sugar Honeyovich
            Sugar Honeyovich 31 December 2020 11: 57
            +1
            Dad was a TV special?
            1. Cartalon
              Cartalon 31 December 2020 12: 00
              +4
              No, he was a specialist in fluoroscopy and equipment for it
              1. Sugar Honeyovich
                Sugar Honeyovich 31 December 2020 12: 36
                0
                So what were the big purchases?
                1. Cartalon
                  Cartalon 31 December 2020 12: 50
                  +3
                  Obviously, purchases equivalent to the cost of a new TV were not available
                  1. Mordvin 3
                    Mordvin 3 31 December 2020 13: 07
                    +5
                    Quote: Cartalon
                    Obviously, purchases equivalent to the cost of a new TV were not available

                    What are you talking about? A guest from the future was looking at the brand new Horizon. For 8 years of work, it only broke once.
                    1. Cartalon
                      Cartalon 31 December 2020 13: 09
                      0
                      What I saw with my own eyes I carry
                    2. Mordvin 3
                      Mordvin 3 31 December 2020 13: 15
                      +5
                      Quote: Cartalon
                      What I saw with my own eyes I carry

                      I also saw it with my own eyes. And I felt it. At the time of the collapse of the USSR, we moved into a four-bedroom apartment, and completely furnished it. No imports. TV sets Horizon and Youth, tape recorders Electronics, Lighthouse and Sirius, all domestic furniture, as well as foam-wallpaper-chandeliers. Where is all this?
                    3. Fan-fan
                      Fan-fan 31 December 2020 18: 55
                      +1
                      I remember how my parents bought the first color TV Horizon, the price was 650 rubles and it was a great event, all the neighbors came to watch this miracle, naturally everyone asked the price and were sad right away. Since the salary of a senior engineer was then 165 rubles.
                      Well, what someone wrote here: it was difficult to find food, then most likely he lied. Or maybe he was looking for some special delicacies?
                    4. Mordvin 3
                      Mordvin 3 31 December 2020 19: 36
                      +3
                      Quote: Fan-Fan
                      the first color TV Horizon, the price is 650 rubles and it was a great event, all the neighbors came to watch this miracle, naturally everyone asked the price and were sad at once.

                      Mother took a loan on the wall, I don't remember what it was called, a loan, or something. No interest.
                    5. Akuzenka
                      Akuzenka 31 December 2020 20: 35
                      +4
                      My parents took Horizon 412 in installments. And also without interest. Damn, I changed a couple of lamps, a month ago and dried up conduits - it worked! Diagonal 61 centimeters!
                    6. Mordvin 3
                      Mordvin 3 31 December 2020 20: 42
                      +2
                      Quote: AKuzenka
                      Diagonal 61 centimeters!

                      We had such
                      For 8 years, it broke once.
                2. Esoteric
                  Esoteric 1 January 2021 09: 14
                  +1
                  My family couldn't handle that. We bought the Record for 565 rubles. And, yes, the neighbors also came. smile
        2. Sugar Honeyovich
          Sugar Honeyovich 31 December 2020 15: 18
          +4
          Not obvious. Why buy a new one if you can fix the old one - this is how many argue in our time. Even if it is more profitable to buy a new one. But the main thing ... So, the engineer with his wife, an employee and one child, "could not afford large purchases from the word at all." But since there was such a large purchase as a TV in the house, it means they could not "not quite". Presumably there was a refrigerator and a washing machine?
          Want a comparison example? 1975 year. A village teacher (who is also the head of the school), 58 years old, with his wife, but already without two children who have grown up and left for the city (born in the 1940s), moves to the city in a house bought for 5500 rubles.
          - motorcycle "Kovrovets", bought in 1961;
          - a hunting rifle purchased in 1952;
          - furniture (sideboard, wardrobe, bookcase, chest of drawers, tables, chairs) purchased in the 40-60s. and made of WOOD, not chipboard / fiberboard;
          - TV, purchased in 1960,
          - several carpets bought in the 50-60s.
          In the next 2-3 years, he built a summer kitchen and a bathhouse. Material - purchased houses that were demolished in terms of urban development.
          Later, another TV set, a washing machine and two refrigerators were bought (the second was around 1990-91, precisely with the aim of saving money from depreciation).
          Plus - the Biryusa refrigerator and the Belka washing machine, bought in 1972 for newlyweds.
          Plus - a considerable amount lying on the savings bank, "burned" in 1992.
  • Mordvin 3
    Mordvin 3 31 December 2020 13: 04
    +4
    Quote: Cartalon
    , with clothes everything was worse and harder to get.

    We would go to the market and buy. A rabbit hat cost 22 rubles there.
  • Mordvin 3
    Mordvin 3 31 December 2020 14: 36
    +1
    Quote: Cartalon
    The family of an engineer and an employee with a child could not afford large purchases from the word at all.

    What do you mean by large purchases?
  • Cherry Nine
    Cherry Nine 31 December 2020 07: 27
    +1
    Quote: Comrade
    What's wrong here?

    It is not so here that the prosperous USSR of the mid-80s correlated with the dying America in exactly the same way as the young and effective K.U. Chernenko with the owner of Alzheimer Reagan, who, as we learned today, did not recognize people and retired.

    Reagan retired in the last days of his presidency looked like this.

    By the way, a normal person can clearly see on the video where the foreign policy of the era of getting up from its knees has slipped.
    Quote: Comrade
    I had a scholarship of fifty rubles. Another ninety rubles

    Nda, a person received $ 200 a month at the official rate (and at most 20 at the real rate) and tells me about the price balance in the Soviet economy. Oh well.
    Quote: Comrade
    paid for everything about everything a maximum of two rubles fifty kopecks

    The rest of the Soviet workers paid from the difference between their salary and the salary of the Spaniard for the same work.
    1. Gardamir
      Gardamir 31 December 2020 08: 55
      +6
      workers paid from the difference between their salary and the salary of a Spaniard for the same work.
      Was it worth abandoning the USSR if now the difference in salaries is even greater?
      1. Cherry Nine
        Cherry Nine 31 December 2020 09: 06
        -1
        Maybe not worth it. I somewhere wrote something good about the current Russian Federation?

        By the way, about the good. My salary, expressed in German boots, is significantly higher than that of the person in my position in the 80s. Likewise, my salary expressed in travel to the aforementioned Spain.
        1. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 31 December 2020 14: 38
          +4
          Quote: Cherry Nine
          By the way, about the good. My salary, expressed in German boots, is significantly higher than that of the person in my position in the 80s.

          And mine is several times less than even in the 90s.
          1. Cherry Nine
            Cherry Nine 31 December 2020 19: 37
            -2
            Try to read my statement a couple more times, perhaps it will come to your attention that I did not write about the dynamics of my personal salary.

            And as for your salary in the 90s, which is several times less than the current one - well, curly, apparently, you lived in the 90s. There is something to remember. For lucky people, the time was just wonderful, although not everyone survived it.
            1. Mordvin 3
              Mordvin 3 31 December 2020 19: 41
              +1
              Quote: Cherry Nine
              For lucky people, the time was just wonderful, although not everyone survived it.

              I wrote about salaries, not lucky people. In the 90s, I worked as a mechanic, and on some vacation pay I could hit the road to Paris for a month.
              1. Cherry Nine
                Cherry Nine 31 December 2020 19: 49
                -1
                Quote: Mordvin 3
                In the 90s I worked as a mechanic, and on some vacation pay I could hit the road to Paris for a month

                )))
                Well, OK. Finally, a person was found who will tell you how the working class fattened in the 90s. Rarely seen.

                And how do you like Paris in the 90s? Alas, I saw it relatively recently, with crowds of beggars, pissing Montmartre and the Louvre, which was tightly packed by the Chinese.
                1. Mordvin 3
                  Mordvin 3 31 December 2020 19: 54
                  +3
                  Quote: Cherry Nine
                  And how do you like Paris in the 90s?

                  And I didn’t go there, I bought a Sharp TV for one vacation, and gave my sister money for the Crimea.
                  1. Cherry Nine
                    Cherry Nine 31 December 2020 19: 58
                    -3
                    Gosha. Only I was glad for the working people, and here on you, Paris turns, Paris turns into Gelendzhik Alupka and TV. Damn.
                  2. Mordvin 3
                    Mordvin 3 31 December 2020 20: 05
                    +2
                    Quote: Cherry Nine
                    Paris turns, Paris turns into Gelendzhik Alupka and TV. Damn.

                    Have you got an awl in the opera? Whoever wanted what he bought. In 94 I received a salary with a bonus of 2005 rubles, and in the same month my friend bought a seven for 000 rubles. Used, but very much even nothing, she was hijacked the next year.
                  3. Mordvin 3
                    Mordvin 3 31 December 2020 20: 08
                    +1
                    Quote: Cherry Nine
                    Paris turns, Paris turns

                    Are you from CBT or where?
  • Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
    Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 31 December 2020 11: 40
    +5
    Quote: Cherry Nine
    the prosperous USSR of the mid-80s correlated with the bending America in exactly the same way

    as in an old Soviet joke:
    (recited with the intonation of Leonid Ilyich) Capitalism stands on the edge of the abyss and looks down ...
    .... on us.
    1. Fan-fan
      Fan-fan 31 December 2020 19: 22
      +3
      Reagan also collected Soviet anecdotes. He often told his favorite anecdote: “You know that in the USSR you have to wait 10 years to buy a car. One day a guy comes to a store, gives money and says that he wants to buy a car. asks when he will come in 10 years: in the morning or in the evening? The seller asks, what difference does it make to him, because it will only be in 10 years. And the guy replies that a plumber should come to him in the morning. "
  • Comrade
    Comrade 1 January 2021 04: 21
    +4
    Quote: Cherry Nine
    a person received $ 200 a month at the official rate (and at most 20 at the real rate) and tells me about the price balance in the Soviet economy. Oh well.

    The facts are that for these twenty real or two hundred official dollars in the Soviet Union it was possible to live better than in Canada, for example, by two thousand on hand (not to be confused with gross salary).
    I give the layout.
    Of these two thousand, about eight hundred immediately go to pay for housing (we take a one-room apartment), almost a hundred dollars is a ticket. Meals for one person (modestly) - another four hundred.
    What remains?
    Seven hundred dollars. Now is the time to remember that dentistry in the Soviet Union was free, including prosthetics. And in Canada, under capitalism, pulling out a tooth costs about three hundred dollars, a filling - up to five hundred. Implant - from three thousand.
    My mother, receiving the salary of an engineer, sent me every year to a pioneer camp on the shores of the Black Sea. It cost ten rubles out of one hundred and twenty, which she received a month.
    And in Canada, such a thing will pull one and a half thousand a week.
    How do you feel the "price balance"?
    I, dear colleague, have lived a lot in the Soviet Union under socialism, and in Canada I have changed my second decade long ago. Therefore, I can compare the two political systems on the basis of my life experience, and not according to the stories of young journalists who saw the West at best from the window of a tourist bus, and the Soviet Union from the window of a kindergarten.
    In the West good life, of course, is possible, but there are quite a few of those who can afford it. Basically, hard workers, even with a combined family income of about five thousand dollars a month, cannot afford to save a couple of hundred for a book - all are "eaten up" by current and unforeseen expenses.
    1. Cherry Nine
      Cherry Nine 1 January 2021 11: 24
      -3
      Quote: Comrade
      I give the layout.

      Too lazy to search, but it is obvious that copy and paste from ZhZhshechka another letter to the newspaper Pravda, how bad it is to live in the West.


      Especially sincerely it was about Soviet dentistry, I still remember.
      1. Comrade
        Comrade 1 January 2021 17: 47
        +2
        Quote: Cherry Nine
        Too lazy to search, but it is obvious that copy and paste from ZhZhshechka another letter to the newspaper Pravda, how bad it is to live in the West.

        There are no other arguments, in essence, I have nothing to argue? It is immediately clear that about how people actually live THERE, You have no idea.
        Another example, hehe ..
        In the Soviet Union, everyone had a chance to "break out into the people", even a native of a poor family. The state gave a nonresident student a bed in a hostel, and a scholarship if he passed the session without triples. Stationery cost a penny, textbooks are free, in the summer you could go to a construction brigade and earn some money.
        Now Canada.
        There are no scholarships, take out a bank loan. Or apply for financial assistance, which depends on the material well-being of the parents. Tuition fees can be found on the websites of educational institutions, it depends on the province. Textbooks are paid, their cost ranges from several hundred to several thousand dollars. Every year a new version appears, this is specifically so that the old ones are not used, but paid.
        As a result, the guys, having received a diploma, are taken out of the walls of the educational institution with debts reaching many tens of thousands. And with work at the same time not really... They start to send you letters and call you when, they say, will you pay? As long as you think, we will assign you a percentage on the debt, maybe more than for a mortgage. Pay!

        As for going back, I have enough acquaintances who did just that. They waited for citizenship, got a passport in their hands and left for their own Moldova-Russia-Ukraine-Belarus. The latest example is a hairdresser from Chisinau, fourteen years in the country. She earned good money, once a week she cut her hair "in the dark" at home, her husband worked as a jack of all trades in a large building. There are no prospects for children, saving on everything, saved up money to open their own business, and hello.
        There is another case as well.
        A man from Russia, worked as a pilot, flew on Ruslan planes. Experience and flight hours - be healthy.
        Here for a couple of years he knocked down the thresholds, nowhere was he hired in his specialty, only at the airport he was offered to go to the runway cleaning service. I did not lose contact with colleagues from my previous work, I thought, thought, and left with my family back.
        There are examples from other non-Soviet countries when they return.

        Quote: Cherry Nine
        Especially sincerely it was about Soviet dentistry, I still remember.

        You are simply not familiar with Canadian, when they put a seal on you for five hundred dollars, which falls out exactly six months later.
    2. ccsr
      ccsr 1 January 2021 12: 43
      +2
      Quote: Comrade
      How do you feel the "price balance"?
      I, dear colleague, have lived a lot in the Soviet Union under socialism, and in Canada I have changed my second decade long ago.

      The most interesting thing is that there will be our mitrofanushki who will say that everything is not the way you describe it, because it is better to live there and you do not leave from there. But in fact, everything is exactly the way it is, as you tell, and who knows life in the West will agree with you. And what is also remarkable, usually those who have lived there for twenty years and know Soviet life, and not those who have heard about life in the USSR from the stories of some emigrants, usually write this way.
      1. Cherry Nine
        Cherry Nine 1 January 2021 16: 24
        -3
        Quote: ccsr
        there will be our mitrofanushki who will say that everything is not as you describe

        Everything is as the propagandon describes, nevertheless he lies as he breathes. Starting from the fact that in his heavenly USSR, a person receiving the minimum salary (in Canada the minimum salary is 10.75 CAD per hour, 2K is the salary in unskilled positions) can rent a two-room apartment in the city... In the USSR, he could live at most in a dorm room. I would even rent a corner from my grandmother - I would never pay 2.50. At the same time, the propagandist (let's say, for a moment, that he really has lived in Canada for 20 years) did not even bother to obtain a residence permit, since he pays commercial rent, not social rent. And in 20 years, one cannot rise above a spreader in a store or a waiter - well, OK, here everyone lives as he wants. But how he was brought to Canada with such an attitude to life is not clear.
        1. Comrade
          Comrade 1 January 2021 18: 12
          +3
          Quote: Cherry Nine
          Everything is as the propagandon describes, nevertheless he lies as he breathes.

          What, from helplessness and powerlessness passed on to individuals? I will beat you like a child, I have a real life before my eyes, and you have propaganda articles from the liberal-democratic media written by those who do not know life in the West.

          Quote: Cherry Nine
          in Canada minimum salary of CAD 10.75 per hour

          In what kind of "Canada", what kind specifically province you mean mister?
          Quote: Cherry Nine
          2K is the salary in unskilled positions

          Read carefully, I wrote, not to be confused with gross salary. That is, before taxes

          Quote: Cherry Nine
          At the same time, the propagandon (let's say, for a moment, that he really has lived in Canada for 20 years) did not even bother to get a residence permit, since he pays commercial rent, not social rent.

          He laughed heartily, everything was confused - horses, people. I offer a thousand dollars, monsieur, if confirm even a word from his tirade. Well, why did you decide that I live in a rented apartment, can you explain?
          I'm waiting for an answer, so please don't wait. It's very funny to read, you can't even imagine what nonsense you are talking about. Sorry for the frankness.
          1. Cherry Nine
            Cherry Nine 1 January 2021 20: 05
            +1
            Quote: Comrade
            I offer a thousand dollars, monsieur, if you confirm a word

            How do I owe it to you confirm? Come to a conditional Montreal and give you a scam on the topic of unpaid taxes?
            Quote: Comrade
            why did you decide that I live in a rented apartment

            Your suffering Canadian lives there for 800CAD / month. This is a rent, not a communal apartment.

            By the way, for a Muscovite 800СAD for an apartment does not sound as tragic as you would like.
            Quote: Comrade
            That is, before taxes

            On income 24K per year taxes in Quebec 3.55K (including federal, Quebec and social benefits).
            Quote: Comrade
            what specific province do you mean, mister?

            Blundered, guilty. In Quebec 13.1. Working according to the Russian labor calendar (1979 hours at a 40-hour week in 2020) minus 160 hours of vacation, you will get exactly 24K before taxes. That is, your stories about the suffering of working people in Quebec relate strictly to people on the minimum wage or part-time.
            Quote: Comrade
            You just don't know Canadian when they put a seal on you for five hundred dollars

            If you work for 13.1 / hour, then there is probably no medical insurance. Despite the fact that Canadians made their Obamacher a long time ago, you can, if you wish, find paid services that are easy to trump. You do not particularly compare free services with Soviet ones.
            Quote: Comrade
            In the Union, everyone had a chance to "break out into the people", even a person from a poor family

            Yes Yes. Collective farmer Gorbachev M.S. at the law faculty of Moscow State University immediately remembered.

            In reality, there are two ways to pay for education. At the expense of the student (and his family) or at the expense of the taxes of all workers. The Anglo-Saxons mostly stick to the former, the Europeans to the latter. Which of them is right is a big question.

            Another thing is that various freeloaders like to pass off the second way as a freebie. How are you now. In reality, like any freebie, we mean an additional tax for these purposes.

            This concludes the relatively truthful part of your speech. The one about the hard life of a Canadian janitor posing as a civil aviation pilot, but without a flight license.

            And the lie begins
            a) when you talk about the heavenly USSR. Pretending, let's say that at least something of food for 400 CAD / month was available to you in the USSR.
            b) when from the Soviet side you take a relatively established specialist in life, and from the Canadian side - a declassed element.
            Quote: Comrade
            My mother, receiving the salary of an engineer, sent me to a pioneer camp every year.

            Quote: Comrade
            offered to go to the runway cleaning service

            c) when you, in principle, deduce the "standard of living" in the USSR from the "level of wages and prices." An engineer and a merchandiser could have the same salary, but radically different living standards. In Canada, a terrible educational loan just allows anyone who can enter any university to study at any university, and in the USSR, to enter a top university, either really outstanding talent, or blat, or exceptional luck, in fact a lottery, was required. In the case of Canada, both talent (academic scholarships), and blat (rich relatives), and the lottery (grants, sports scholarships) also quite solve the issue of educational loans. And the rest, yes, have to look for work. Whether it's in the USSR, you don't need to look for work, the Party will find it for you.

            What about propaganda. Some time ago in Runet there was a whole volley of posts from this public on the topic "it's time to get out of Canada." So your troubles for me fell into this stream. However, looking at the hours of your activity in the comments, I am ready to admit that you are really a fan of visiting a Russian-language site and gossip here about a hard life in a foreign land. Such people really exist in the emigre get-together, not even so rarely. I would like to wish that in the new year, martyrs like you would be deported to their historical homeland as soon as possible, but Trudeau is unlikely to get his hands on it.
            1. Liam
              Liam 1 January 2021 21: 12
              -1
              Quote: Cherry Nine
              What about propaganda

              Comrade
              30 August 2020 06: 15
              +7
              "....
              The second time I had a chance to meet with another former prisoner of war was in Germany. Heinz Ratzlinger - that was his name - remembered a little Russian, spoke with great sympathy about the Russian people, but, he stressed more than once, you have very strict bosses. He spent 10 years in captivity, after which he returned home to Bavaria. At parting he gave five marks, but on the condition that my friend and I buy food with them, not beer or cigarettes. Union did not scold or curse
              .
              1. Comrade
                Comrade 1 January 2021 22: 17
                -1
                Quote: Liam
                Comrade
                30 August 2020 06: 15
                +7
                "....
                The second time I had a chance to meet with another former prisoner of war was in Germany. Heinz Ratzlinger - that was his name - remembered a little Russian, spoke with great sympathy about the Russian people, but, he stressed more than once, you have very strict bosses. He spent 10 years in captivity, after which he returned home to Bavaria. At parting he gave five marks, but on the condition that my friend and I buy food with them, not beer or cigarettes. The union did not scold or curse.

                And what does this mean, let me ask you?
                1. Liam
                  Liam 1 January 2021 22: 29
                  -2
                  It just became interesting what considerations the German was guided by, who threw as much as 5 marks and strictly warned not to spend this huge amount on beer. Such a minuscule, and even with such parting words, you will not throw every bum ... not like an intelligent-looking person, which you undoubtedly are
            2. Comrade
              Comrade 1 January 2021 22: 15
              +2
              Quote: Cherry Nine
              How should I confirm this to you?

              You have now admitted that your words are not worth a damn. Because you are not able to confirm them.

              Quote: Cherry Nine
              Your suffering Canadian lives there for 800CAD / month. This is a rent, not a communal apartment.

              Why did you decide that, the amount caught your eye? So there are many luxury condominiums where condo fee and more than this amount. At the same time, do not forget about school and municipal taxes, well, and regular fees to the "common boiler" at home.
              So again a finger to the sky.
              Quote: Cherry Nine
              Working on the Russian labor calendar (1979 hours at a 40-hour week in 2020) minus 160 hours of vacation

              Again by. So many hours you most likely not will let you work out.
              The work week is much shorter, for example, many government officials have a four-day work week. In the service sector, about thirty a week. If you start picking up working hours, you will receive from two governments for it elevated taxes, so when you count what you have received, you come to the conclusion that it would be better if you were at home.
              And employers do not welcome this, because they pay the state considerable taxes for the salary paid to you. The more hours you have, the more they pay tax, so often the number of working hours is artificially limited. Limited to employers.
              All clear ? If I explain it poorly, I can chew in more detail. And if in a nutshell - the country operates u-equal-no-lov-ka worse than in the Union was.

              Quote: Cherry Nine
              If you work for 13.1 / hour, then there is apparently no medical insurance

              Dear friend, health insurance is free here, both for permanent residents of Canada and for citizens of the country.

              Quote: Cherry Nine
              you can, if you wish, find paid services that are easy to trump.

              There are no paid services that you couldn't get for free. You just have to wait, and if you pay, then quickly. The exception is dentistry, it is paid for everyone, although some companies start dental insurance for employees, but such insurance has a limit on the amount. You can go get a filling or brush your teeth, but no more.
              Quote: Cherry Nine
              You do not particularly compare free services with Soviet ones.

              It is not profitable for you in our dispute, this is understandable. And to compare that is what, hehe ...


              Quote: Cherry Nine
              In reality, there are two ways to pay for education. At the expense of the student (and his family) or at the expense of the taxes of all workers. The Anglo-Saxons mostly stick to the former, the Europeans to the latter. Which of them is right is a big question.

              You are swimming shallow again, but oh well.

              Quote: Cherry Nine
              And the lie begins by pretending that at least some food for 400 CAD / month was available to you in the USSR.

              And what was inaccessible to me, please remind me? Lobsters? so I don't eat them here either. Well, what is there in your list of "inaccessible", lay it out.


              Quote: Cherry Nine
              And the lie begins when you take a relatively well-established specialist from the Soviet side, and a declassed element from the Canadian side.

              The lies started even earlier, when you pass me off to the public as a student working part-time between a couple of times a week "about a specialist arranged in life".
              In Canada, there are no more classes as such, nor are there any "declassed items". Everything is confused, there are no more boundaries.
              A car and a small cart of stories when an engineer from Bell, who worked there for decades, received more than forty dollars an hour yesterday, today was unclaimed. Going to get another profession or even as a general laborer for a minimum wage - you want to eat.
              So you leave these fables about the "middle class", there is no more. And here, by the way, is another example. An acquaintance of my daughter, a local brilliantly studied guy, due to lack of work got a job after college in some supermarket, he is also "finished", in your opinion?

              Quote: Cherry Nine
              In Canada, a terrible educational loan just allows everyone to study at any university

              A mistake. You can pay as much as you like, but if you study poorly, you will be thrown out in no time at least from a provincial university, even from McGill.
              For this, it is enough not to pass just two exams.
              Quote: Cherry Nine
              In the case of Canada, both talent (academic scholarships), and blat (rich relatives), and the lottery (grants, sports scholarships) also quite solve the issue of educational loans.

              Leave this "noodle" for "believers", it has little to do with reality.
              Quote: Cherry Nine
              What about propaganda. Some time ago in Runet there was a whole volley of posts from this public on the topic "it's time to get out of Canada."

              How did you conclude that yours truly is the author of these posts?
              1. Liam
                Liam 1 January 2021 22: 22
                -3
                Quote: Comrade

                From what you concluded that your humble servant is the author of these posts

                Probably because your Canadian stories of the "eyewitness" are very much like a loser rogue
                1. Comrade
                  Comrade 1 January 2021 22: 29
                  +3
                  Quote: Liam
                  Probably because your Canadian stories of the "eyewitness" are very much like a loser rogue

                  You found in my comments something that is not there. Reality is simply described to you, it not coincides with the brilliant image formed in your consciousness, your consciousness begins to protest, and you, not being able to argue with me in essence, become personal.
                  I feel sorry for you.
                  They wished me deportation, and I sincerely wish you and my second opponent to come here and live like this for three or four years. Let's see where your illusions go.
                2. Liam
                  Liam 1 January 2021 22: 36
                  -3
                  )))
                  Don't worry about me, I have lived in Italy for a long time and am very happy with my life.
                  I don’t switch to any person, but I just give an assessment of what you have written - some kind of continuous torment of a poor man who cannot afford a high-quality filling).
                  To dispel doubts ... what is your total monthly family income, whether you rent an apartment or live in your own, what are the main expenses per month, live on earned income or on social networks. Then you can form an objective opinion about the Canadian hell from an eyewitness
                3. Comrade
                  Comrade 1 January 2021 23: 47
                  +4
                  Quote: Liam
                  I appreciate what you have written - some kind of continuous agony of a poor man who cannot afford a high-quality filling

                  Where do I say that I personally "poor man"And"I suffer“? Speech in my comments that the glittering image of the West - specifically the United States and Canada - is actually a propaganda image that has little to do with reality.
                  There are people who live well, but the vast majority just make ends meet.

                  Quote: Liam
                  To dispel doubts ... what is your total monthly family income, whether you rent an apartment or live in your own, what are the main expenses per month, live on labor income or on social services.
                  .
                  Your doubts will hardly be dispelled, because
                  propagandon

                  as a colleague called me just now, at the behest of the Russian special services, he can invent anything about himself. Any story, right?
                  But if you are interested, then if you please.
                  We have our own condo in a great area with over a thousand square feet. The market value is over four hundred thousand. For that money, you can buy a great house in an average suburb or two great apartments in a middle city.
                  It is not customary to name specific amounts, but I earn enough to allow my wife not to work, but to take care of the children and the household, as well as to educate my daughter in a private school and every year to have a rest with my family in Cuba or Mexico.
                  Taking care of our health, we eat simply.
                  Quote: Liam
                  Then you can form an objective opinion about Canadian hell from an eyewitness

                  You will form an objective opinion only after you have lived here for ten years, get to know local life from the inside and get to know dozens of different people from different walks of life. In general, life is not bad if you have your head on your shoulders and at the same time you are ready to work hard, like dad Carlo.
                  If you just go with the flow (and most of these), then you doom yourself and your family to a hard, gray and joyless life, infinitely far from the pictures from glossy magazines.
                4. Liam
                  Liam 2 January 2021 00: 08
                  -3
                  )))
                  Quote: Comrade
                  but the vast majority are just making ends meet.


                  Quote: Comrade
                  If you just go with the flow (and there are most of them), then you doom yourself and your family to a hard, gray and joyless life, infinitely far from pictures from glossy magazines

                  These are typical phrases.
                  Quote: Comrade
                  propagandon


                  For only they have a person who came from the other end of the world without education, without support, without knowledge of the language and, accordingly, apart from unskilled work, who could not claim anything for ten years, he could calmly
                  Quote: Comrade
                  We have our own condo in a great area with over a thousand square feet. The market value is over four hundred thousand. For that money, you can buy a great house in an average suburb or two great apartments in a middle city.
                  It is not customary to name specific amounts, but I earn enough to allow my wife not to work, but to take care of the children and the household, as well as to study my daughter in a private school and every year to relax with my family in Cuba or Mexico

                  That is, to lead a prosperous life about which in the open spaces of the USSR and post-Soviet Union 90% of people can only dream. But the majority of the locals (according to the stories of these propagandists) cannot afford such a life. Although they have incomparably higher starting opportunities - both education, and the language and parents of the grandparents who will leave them an apartment and a good bank account, in contrast to a beggar alien from another continent).
                  You will decide which propaganda line to adhere to
                5. Comrade
                  Comrade 2 January 2021 01: 32
                  +2
                  Quote: Liam
                  These are typical phrases.

                  And what's wrong with them?
                  Quote: Liam
                  For only they have a person who came from the other end of the world without education, without support, without knowledge of the language and, accordingly, apart from unskilled work, who could not claim anything for ten years, he could calmly ...
                  That is, to lead a prosperous life about which in the vastness of the USSR and post-USSR 90% of people can only dream.

                  I do not think that this is the life of a well-to-do person, we just differently, compared to local or many other immigrants, have set life priorities and avoid unnecessary or meaningless expenses.
                  In the Union so there were many more people than there are in Canada today. Take my word for it, I speak without any emotion and with a deep knowledge of the subject.
                  I understand you well, if in Ukraine they began to tell me what I told you today, I would probably have treated such information with suspicion.

                  Quote: Liam
                  But most of the locals (according to the stories of these propagandists) cannot afford such a life. Although they have incomparably higher starting opportunities, both education, and the language and parents of grandparents who will leave them an apartment and a good bank account, in contrast to a beggar alien from another continent)

                  Listen less
                  these propagandists

                  a) no one here leaves a house with apartments for anyone, this is a myth or nonsense (underline the necessary). Usually old people sell their property and go to live in nursing homes.
                  b) no one leaves a bank account for anyone, according to official statistics, more than half of the population of Canada does not have $ 500 in a bank account. Debts in the tens of thousands are common.
                  And whoever saves for his old age will spend on himself. A modest funeral - from twenty thousand.
                  c) our immigrants, unlike many local ones, have an excellent, still Soviet education and a relatively higher coefficient of intellectual development, which lot more important than language.
                  Language can be learned, but intelligence and critical thinking cannot be bought or inherited.
                6. Liam
                  Liam 2 January 2021 01: 35
                  -5
                  I am more and more convinced that you are a typical LiveInettourist. Such crap can only be deducted there.
                7. Comrade
                  Comrade 2 January 2021 06: 43
                  +2
                  And you reminded me of a typical inhabitant of Ukraine in 1990. It was going to the collapse of the Union, and in the central newspapers they started talking about how much free oil and gas Ukraine gets from Russia.
                  All this turned out to be true, but then, thirty years ago, people deceived by propaganda did not believe this truth.
                  Foaming at the mouth, they shouted that this was all "Kremlin propaganda." And now it's time to collect stones. Now they pay more for gas from Russia than the Germans pay, for example.
                  However, I would not be surprised if you declare this "propaganda" too.

                  So it is with you and me. I tell you the truth, but your brain refuses to accept it, because there is already a colorful picture, which is actually a photomontage.

                  Now let me take my leave, thank you for your attention.
              2. ccsr
                ccsr 2 January 2021 16: 36
                0
                Quote: Comrade
                no one here leaves houses with apartments for anyone, this is a myth or nonsense (underline the necessary). Usually old people sell their property and go to live in nursing homes.

                I saw this in Germany in the 80s-90s of the last century - for some reason such establishments were called "Houses for Seniors".
                Quote: Comrade
                still Soviet education and a relatively higher coefficient of intellectual development, which is much more important than language.

                And this also had to be faced in Germany, when the Soviet Germans, who emigrated after the collapse, turned out to be much more qualified than the locals, but they were artificially slowed down in their advancement. I know the case of one of our freelance guys, who knew a lot about cars and stayed with a German in a car repair shop after the end of the contract. He was paid quite well, but the neighbors pledged the owner of the auto repair shop, and he had to refuse our man, because their legislation required, first of all, the arrangement of local, or it was necessary to pay large taxes for a foreigner. The owner himself spat and cursed because he realized that he could not find such a specialist in his village auto repair shop among the locals.
          2. Cherry Nine
            Cherry Nine 2 January 2021 00: 56
            -2
            Quote: Comrade
            over a thousand square feet

            Fire again. 1000 sq ft it is 92 sq.m. Two-room apartment or a bad three-ruble note, but for the price - a very rich urban area. For a family with several children - some kind of redneck.
            Quote: Comrade
            you doom yourself and your family to a hard, gray and joyless life,

            Horrible.
            Quote: Comrade
            infinitely far from pictures from glossy magazines.

            This is a fucking revelation. It turns out in glossy magazines in insta they lie to us.
          3. Comrade
            Comrade 2 January 2021 01: 43
            +2
            Quote: Cherry Nine
            Fire again.

            Choose expressions, my dear, or our conversation will be interrupted due to rudeness on your part.
            Quote: Cherry Nine
            1000 sq ft it is 92 sq.m. Two-room apartment or a bad three-ruble note, but for the price - a very rich urban area. For a family with several children - some kind of redneck.

            A local lives above us, with two children. He works for IBM, she is in kindergarten. The family has three cars, two of them are European. Owns another property that we rent out.
            So is he too "redneck"it turns out that his apartment is too small by your standards?

            Quote: Cherry Nine
            This is a fucking revelation. It turns out that glossy magazines are lying to us.

            Imagine, but suckers are being carried on.
          4. Cherry Nine
            Cherry Nine 2 January 2021 03: 38
            +2
            Quote: Comrade
            Imagine, but the fuckers are being carried on

            Are you used to talking to them?
            Quote: Comrade
            two of them are European

            Hmm, why was this remark?
            Quote: Comrade
            A local lives above us, with two children. ....
            So he, too, "redneck" comes out, since his apartment is too small by your standards?

            In three rooms, four? These are at least strange life priorities. Although situations are different, it is not worth treating with a photo. My remark was connected with the fact that in your mention of the "thousand-foot apartment" I heard an inappropriate aplomb.
            Quote: Comrade
            natural Atlantic is too expensive, so we take it only for the holidays.

            Quote: Comrade
            but I earn enough to allow my wife not to work, but to take care of the children and the household, as well as to educate my daughter in a private school and to have a vacation with my family in Cuba or Mexico every year.

            Perfectly. Your story is getting more and more funny. The person who claims the Uppermeal is saving on food.
            Quote: Comrade
            there is food for people like you, that is, genetically modified, and there is food that is normal, but not available to you.
            In the Soviet Union, it was available to everyone, in the West today, only a few.

            Oops, Soviet advocates of organic food have emerged. How unexpected. Was it the USSR, was it a preserve of ecological food?
            You are here proving that you lived in the USSR, I think? And you don't know anything about Soviet agriculture?
            Quote: Comrade
            received a room in a communal apartment immediately upon arrival at work for distribution. Six months later, they were allocated a two-room apartment in a new building.

            A two-room apartment for two people? In six months? No, there were such cases in the history of the USSR too, maybe even more than once. Especially if during the distribution they just came "for an apartment", this happened, although with few people. But somehow you have everything one to one.
            Quote: Comrade
            The guy studied for the one he should be studying for.

            To the cashier at the KFS?
            Quote: Comrade
            who do you mean by
            declassed element

            Declassed elements in the literal sense. Most of the stories about the harsh life in a foreign land that you recalled here boil down to the loss of specialty and social capital in case of sudden changes: migration or job loss.
            Quote: Comrade
            the beads are out

            Quote: Comrade
            I'm tired of your snobbery

            Quote: Comrade
            The one from whom you have learned this set of words does not even imagine what kind of delirium that is divorced from reality.

            Quote: Comrade
            you have vinigret in your head

            Quote: Comrade
            because of rudeness on your part.

            Ended up with amazing stories from Canada, I'm watching? Very sad. Well, dig new ones for now.
  • Cherry Nine
    Cherry Nine 2 January 2021 00: 34
    -1
    Quote: Comrade
    Your words are not worth a damn. Because you are not able to confirm them.

    Really? Are you here to ask for the bazaar or what?

    And then, I see, they swam. Before that, your stories of how unhappy the faces of ordinary Quebec people did not look so comical.

    Quote: Comrade
    there are many luxury condominiums where condo fee and more than this amount

    Quote: Comrade
    Of these two thousand, about eight hundred immediately goes to pay for housing (we take a one-room apartment),

    With such incomes in a fashionable condominium? Bohemian lifestyle advocate, am I watching?
    Quote: Comrade
    The work week is much shorter here

    Really? You somehow forgot to mention this when talking about low incomes, no?
    Quote: Comrade
    you start to collect working hours, you will receive higher taxes from two governments

    Really? Don't worry, the next income tax step is 45K, EMNIP, so the second job at 13.1 / h will be at the minimum rate.
    Quote: Comrade
    for the salary paid to you, they pay considerable taxes to the state.

    Progressive payroll taxes from employers in Canada? Well, in more detail. Employees pay Canadian UST.
    Quote: Comrade
    in the country, the u-rav-ni-lov-ka operates worse than in the Union it was.

    They arrived, the supporter of the USSR was hunted down by the Canadian leftists. This is an extravaganza.
    Quote: Comrade
    Dear friend, health insurance is free here, both for permanent residents of Canada and for citizens of the country.

    But you have found an opportunity to remember about paid medicine.
    Quote: Comrade
    such insurance has a limit on the amount

    Wow, how unexpected.

    They collect text messages for children for surgery, no? Or would you say that there were no SMS messages in the USSR?
    Quote: Comrade
    compare that is what, hehe ...

    Well, compare, what's the problem?
    Quote: Comrade
    You are swimming shallow again

    How can I care about you Canadians.
    Quote: Comrade
    What was inaccessible to me, please remind me

    I'm not in Canada, but right now on my right is banana, orange, tangerine, grapes and cranberry juice. Another non-Russian chocolate Santa Claus, in the sense of Santa. Tell us what of this I could buy in the USSR not in Moscow in January in a store. Any day, go to the store and buy. Mandarin could be get it... All? (I advise you not to remind about the New Year's set from the trade union, I remember what was included in it. We will leave out the question of what kind of country it was, where the best New Year's gift was food).
    Quote: Comrade
    even earlier, when I, a student, working part-time between a couple of times a week, you give out to the public as a "relatively arranged specialist in life."

    You twist. The story about the apartment for 2.50 was about your mother, who received this apartment after 10-15 years of work. That is, in the present, having paid off the virtual Soviet mortgage, while not after settlement, and to... A student for 40 rubles / month + scholarship did not have any conditionally of his own apartment.
    Quote: Comrade
    local brilliant student, due to lack of work got a job after college in some supermarket, he is also "finished", in your opinion?

    It depends on whom he studied. And what is this neatness towards people of hard work, I do not understand? Typically Soviet, it seems, in the West, as a rule, it is not accepted to pretend to be an aristocrat of mental labor.
    Quote: Comrade
    You can pay as much as you like, but if you study poorly, you will be thrown out in no time at least from a provincial university, even from McGill.

    You are again carried over the flags. The Canadians, it turns out, do not keep thugs in universities, and you sigh about the Soviet Union here.
    Quote: Comrade
    it has little to do with reality.

    Again the aristocracy flooded? What has little to do with reality? Opportunity for majors to do without credit? Academic scholarships? Opportunity for poor students to get a quota?
    Quote: Comrade
    How did you conclude that yours truly is the author of these posts?

    I took this conclusion back, for now. I just noticed that your complaints about Canada specifically seemed familiar to me. I don’t know what exactly Canada didn’t please the propagandists. I am ready to give you the benefit of the doubt for the time being, too, so to speak, we will not follow Soviet traditions.
    1. Comrade
      Comrade 2 January 2021 02: 47
      +3
      Quote: Cherry Nine
      Are you here to ask for the bazaar or what?

      The impression that you have vinigret in your head, so it is difficult for you to articulate your thoughts clearly, or to adequately respond to answers.
      Alternatively, the consequences of abundant festive libations are making themselves felt, which is why the confusion in your words.

      Quote: Cherry Nine
      Don't worry, the next income tax step is 45K, EMNIP, so the second job at 13.1 / h will be at the minimum rate.

      The one from whom you have learned this set of words does not even imagine what kind of delirium that is divorced from reality.

      Quote: Cherry Nine
      I'm not in Canada, but right now on my right is banana, orange, tangerine, grapes and cranberry juice. Another non-Russian chocolate Santa Claus, in the sense of Santa. Tell us what of this I could buy in the USSR not in Moscow in January in a store.

      In our city, cranberry juice was sold, the rest of your list was not.

      You and I look at life from different positions: I eat in order to live, you, obviously, on the contrary, so the topic of food worries you so much.
      And it does not bother at all that there is food for people like you, that is, genetically modified, but there is food that is normal, but inaccessible to you.
      In the Soviet Union, it was available to everyone, in the West today, only a few.
      In the Soviet Union, I did not eat pink salmon due to the lack of it in stores, here I do not eat it, because it is artificial, from nurseries, grown on synthetic food. And the natural Atlantic is too expensive, so we take it only for the holidays.
      Likewise chicken legs. They were not sold in the Union, therefore we did not buy them. They sell them here, but normal their people not buy.
      As well as your Santa, which may include chocolate.

      Quote: Cherry Nine
      You twist. The story about the apartment for 2.50 was about your mother, who received this apartment after 10-15 years of work.

      My parents, as young professionals, were given a room in a communal apartment immediately upon arrival at their assignment work. Six months later, they were allocated a two-room apartment in a new building.

      Quote: Cherry Nine
      It depends on whom he studied.

      The guy studied for the one he should be studying for.

      Quote: Cherry Nine
      And what is this neatness towards people of hard work, I do not understand?

      And who do you mean by
      declassed element

      ?

      Quote: Cherry Nine
      What has little to do with reality? Opportunity for majors to do without credit? Academic scholarships? Opportunity for poor students to get a quota?

      Dear colleague, sorry, the beads are over.

      Quote: Cherry Nine
      I took this conclusion back, for now. I am ready to give you the benefit of the doubt for the time being, too, so to speak, we will not follow Soviet traditions.

      I am tired of your snobbery, so let's stop the conversation.
  • Comrade
    Comrade 1 January 2021 17: 54
    +3
    Quote: ccsr
    The most interesting thing is that there will be our mitrofanushki who will say that everything is not the way you describe it, because it is better to live there and you do not leave from there.

    We have nowhere to go, even if we wanted to. Russia is not waiting for us, we are empty places for it. In Ukraine, a totalitarian nightmare with forced Ukrainization. The daughter was born, they wrote down her name in their own way, but as we wanted, the authorities did not allow (Russian name). Here, in order to change the name of my daughter, I had to pay in the amount of $ 1 in various instances.
    Quote: ccsr
    But in fact, everything is exactly the way it is, as you tell, and who knows life in the West will agree with you

    I have many acquaintances, and in the States too, who earn good money, but, nevertheless, remember our great Motherland with warmth and gratitude. The feeling of confidence in the future and carelessness for the majority of those living in the West is an abstract concept.
    Here you constantly need to be on the lookout and there is no way to relax.
    1. ccsr
      ccsr 1 January 2021 21: 09
      +4
      Quote: Comrade
      In Ukraine, there is a totalitarian nightmare with forced Ukrainization.

      I have a childhood friend who lives in Kiev, and whose son emigrated to Canada even before the Maidan and whom I have known since my school days. Moreover, the family is well-educated, his wife works at the university, his son graduated from the Kiev Polytechnic University with a programmer diploma and worked for several years in a branch of some Western firm in Kiev. But as sometimes happens, their son became seriously interested in snowboarding, received a coach certificate and went on a work visa to train Canadians on some slopes. In general, he already received citizenship there, but he had to quit his coaching job, there were difficulties with official work. Now he works as some kind of assistant director and is engaged in various filming mainly by order of American companies, tk. in Canada it costs them less. The work is not constant, there are failures, and there was even a time when my friend transferred money to him, since he had the opportunity. I will not detail, but as a fact, during all this time, the son has never been able to fly to meet with his parents and all for a banal reason - lack of money for this. There are many more details about his life that a friend tells me, because they communicate with their son on Skype, but my friend does not feel great joy from his emigration. And for some reason, his son is annoyed by a large number of Chinese in Canada, but apparently he lives in such a region. But even this is not the main thing for my friend, but the fact that his son will never return to Ukraine, and this is not a joy for him.
      1. Comrade
        Comrade 1 January 2021 21: 36
        +3
        Quote: ccsr
        Now he works as some kind of assistant director and is engaged in various filming mainly by order of American companies, tk. in Canada it costs them less.

        Most likely, the son of your friend lives in Montreal. Filming is often carried out in this city, and quite often people are recruited from advertisements for filming.
        The pay, I heard, is not bad, but the work is unstable.

        Quote: ccsr
        but as a fact, the son during all this time has never been able to fly to meet with his parents and all for a banal reason - lack of money for this.

        A good friend of mine did not fly to Kiev for his mother's funeral for the same reason - the eternal lack of money, although he and his wife make good money.

        Quote: ccsr
        And for some reason, his son is annoyed by a large number of Chinese in Canada, but apparently he lives in such a region.

        And this already looks like Vancouver. There are very few whites there, mostly Asians. of which most are Chinese. You come to a supermarket and you have problems explaining yourself in English - that's what it came to.
  • ccsr
    ccsr 31 December 2020 11: 42
    +4
    Quote: Comrade
    And such examples, colleague, a dime a dozen will be named to you by those who, at the break of 1970-80, did not run under the table on foot.

    That's right, that's exactly what it was, and no one really bothered that it was impossible to live on 80-90 rubles a month at that time. And as pensioners who received up to 132 rubles. per month, in general, they often helped grandchildren and children. this money was enough for them to live comfortably. By the way, my classmate without education went to work at the Zaliv shipbuilding plant as a worker and in six months earned 180 rubles, but the job was for physically strong people, and he was a sports guy.
    1. Comrade
      Comrade 1 January 2021 23: 59
      +3
      Quote: ccsr
      By the way, my classmate without education went to work at the shipbuilding plant "Zaliv" as a worker and in six months earned 180 rubles

      My uncle in Nikolaev worked as an electrician at the Okean shipbuilding plant, where they built aircraft-carrying cruisers. I received about three hundred rubles in "stagnation", then they began to pay even more.
  • Olgovich
    Olgovich 31 December 2020 09: 10
    -8
    Quote: Cherry Nine
    Who is the author counting on when talking about the awesome life in the Union of the 80s?


    Why so?
    In the 80s, production grew rapidly. Production coupons (oops, invitations!) for everything and everyone

    These tales are funny to me:
    The union, despite the cries of the Jews and fools, on the contrary, had a lot of opportunities and reserves for a breakthrough into the future.

    This was "golden age" Union.
    ... Life is constantly improved.



    Breakthrough into the future?

    Simple facts: THIRD harvest in the country of "breakthrough" went under the snow, under the wheels, etc.

    Almost a THIRD of cattle died in the RSFSR annually from EXHAUSTION (provision of fodder .... 50%) and bleeds.

    SEVENTY% of work in animal husbandry was done MANUALLY by selfless old people (all the youth ran away, there was no one to work).

    90% of arable land is depleted, almost FIVE million agricultural lands abandoned and overgrown with forest-No one to work. Almost a MILLION abandoned houses.

    In just 30 years, by 1989, according to censuses, almost HALF of settlements in Russia ... GONE from the face - like a cow licked her tongue! And thousands more were just listed on paper. Terrible figures of the devastation and depopulation of Russia - and this is without war!

    The reserves were completely exhausted and the most important is demographic: the population was rapidly aging, dying out, and by 1990 A third of the population of Russia lived in conditions of extinction.... The cheap labor power had dried up, with it the possibility of extensive development, the intensification of production was required, and the scientific and technological revolution was lost and the economy was absolutely clumsy.

    For the "Golden" century, you just need to compare the conscientious supermarket of the "golden" 1985 and the German market of the same year
    it is the ability of the country, economy, science and people to mobilize and concentrate. We could solve a problem of any complexity in the shortest possible time.

    We are waiting for the author's story about the "successful implementation" of the famous Program of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union from 1974 on the rise of the Non-Black Earth Region, on the rise, as they said "second virgin soil" , as a result of which the situation in the region by 1990 only .... worsened.
    These are the tasks of "any complexity" - and in fact they did not even know what to do after all they had heaped up earlier.

    By the way, the question arises, WHO turned the center of Russia into "virgin lands", which must be reclaimed ...
  • Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
    Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 31 December 2020 10: 50
    -5
    Quote: Cherry Nine
    Small question. Who is the author counting on when talking about the awesome life in the Union of the 80s?

    on nostalgic comrades with an alternatively refined memory. Those who are sure that in the fundamental battle "market versus plan" the latter bent not because of systemic flaws, but because of the intrigues of some "enemies of the people."
    1. Keyser soze
      Keyser soze 31 December 2020 17: 49
      +3
      but because of the intrigues of some "enemies of the people."


      Reagan killed on the move ... laughing From the article, I understood that he was a commissioner at a factory, Nancy was engaged in astrology and both beat blacks. That is why he was also elected President and the term "Reignomics" appeared in the textbooks of economics. laughing
      Slender logic according to Samsonov.

      Have a nice holiday drinks
      1. Fan-fan
        Fan-fan 31 December 2020 19: 08
        +3
        I also did not notice the logic in the article: the author writes that Reagan ruined the California economy and suddenly he was elected president of the United States.
        1. Keyser soze
          Keyser soze 31 December 2020 19: 40
          0
          that Reagan ruined the California economy


          The author received this information from the Arkaim Interstellar Center for the Study of the Universal Genome, Economics and Antarctic Farming.



          Ditched California and then dealt with the whole country.
  • Ravik
    Ravik 31 December 2020 07: 56
    +4
    Quote: Cherry Nine
    Those who drank all their brains in the happy 80s?

    If everyone drank their brains on drink, dear, you would be born oligophrenic ...
    We love to spit on their Past ...
    1. Cherry Nine
      Cherry Nine 31 December 2020 08: 07
      0
      Quote: Ravik
      If everyone drank their brains

      Everything?

      I spoke only about the author's target audience. If I can still understand the tales about Stalin, but not forgive (although the people who lived under Stalin, this could have upset, there are not so many of them left), then the tales of my own life in happy Soviet times are somehow not at all come in.
      1. Gardamir
        Gardamir 31 December 2020 09: 01
        +4
        then fairy tales about my own life somehow do not go into the happy Soviet times.
        End the year positively. tell us about your bright present today.
        1. Cherry Nine
          Cherry Nine 31 December 2020 09: 07
          +2
          What for? Read about the happy present at Simonyan's and on all sorts of doneunas. I don't get paid for that.
          1. Gardamir
            Gardamir 31 December 2020 09: 22
            +3
            About a happy present
            Here you are not original, About the fact that "everything was bad" in the Soviet Union, this is state policy from the very top. But if everything is so bad in the USSR. then it should be good today? But if today it is impossible to say what is good, then how to understand what was bad before?
          2. sniperino
            sniperino 31 December 2020 10: 27
            0
            Quote: Cherry Nine
            Read about a happy present at Simonyan's and on all sorts of doneunas
            In order not to fall into deep depression after VO, it is absolutely necessary to look there for prevention. And more - "Time - forward!"
        2. Doctor
          Doctor 31 December 2020 11: 16
          -5
          End the year positively. tell us about your bright present today.

          Have you already stocked up on NG?
          How long did you wait in line? laughing



          Or in a "special store" for the nomenclature? wink

      2. Doccor18
        Doccor18 31 December 2020 09: 06
        +4
        ... then fairy tales about my own life somehow do not go into happy Soviet times.

        For some reason, we in disputes compare "white and black" or "hell and heaven".
        Anyone who found the USSR and lived with it, being an adult, perfectly felt all its "charms" ... It would be honest to cite all the pros and cons of the socialist and cap. systems. And then the true picture of the life of the average person immediately emerges. But ... it was him. As in the USSR, people lived in different conditions. The son of a Soviet diplomat or an Air Force colonel had much more opportunities than the son of a collective farmer or a doctor from a regional center. However, the possibilities of both those and others were as close to each other as possible. Now "these possibilities" are cosmically distant and continue to be equidistant ... But everyone, as a rule, argues precisely from the height of his level.
        1. Gardamir
          Gardamir 31 December 2020 09: 27
          +7
          The son of a Soviet diplomat or an Air Force colonel had much more opportunities than the son of a collective farmer or a doctor from a regional center. However, the possibilities of both those and others were as close to each other as possible.

          Interestingly, the children of high-ranking parents in the USSR are just cursing the Soviet Union. My parents were workers, and I had everything. More precisely, everything was enough for me.
          1. apro
            apro 31 December 2020 09: 40
            +6
            Quote: Gardamir
            More precisely, everything was enough for me.

            The key word ... today, many cannot boast of this.
          2. Doccor18
            Doccor18 31 December 2020 09: 45
            +4
            Quote: Gardamir
            The son of a Soviet diplomat or an Air Force colonel had much more opportunities than the son of a collective farmer or a doctor from a regional center. However, the possibilities of both those and others were as close to each other as possible.

            Interestingly, the children of high-ranking parents in the USSR are just cursing the Soviet Union ...

            So they always wanted more than they could afford. And much, under the Soviet system, it was impossible to afford. So they sprayed with poison ..
            But now they got it. The possibilities for them are almost endless. Only eternal life is not available ...
      3. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
        Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 31 December 2020 12: 01
        -4
        Quote: Cherry Nine
        then fairy tales about my own life somehow do not go into the happy Soviet times.

        Well, like this....
  • nikvic46
    nikvic46 31 December 2020 08: 35
    0
    No matter how it was in those years, the USA and the USSR were negotiable. The weaker countries become, the more dangerous they become for each other. Having destructive weapons, and having nothing in their hearts, is the main danger for the whole world. In the USA, people who imagined themselves as celestials invented "Doomsday". And now it began to walk around the world. Wallets began to rule the world, and whatever they tell us about justice, it all comes down to replenishing these wallets.
  • ximkim
    ximkim 31 December 2020 09: 18
    +1
    For a long time I watched a video about Reagan and SDI. The bottom line was that the United States understood the very essence of the arms race (these are finances and opportunities) So, this program (SDI) of the United States was purely for drawing the USSR into the arms race. Why did the USSR get involved? Because the party elite and special commissions (which consisted of the party elite) had thoughts about lagging in this direction. After all, the commission was created for a certain (US response) direction, the commission had certain questions to specialists. The bottom line is that the members of the commission did not believe in the answers of experts, "that all this SDI is pure fantasy on the part of the United States, that something like this will appear in N-th time", who worked in a certain (closed) defense sphere .. Reagan was president, spoke and behaved confidently. The bluff was successful.
    1. Doccor18
      Doccor18 31 December 2020 10: 04
      -1
      Quote: ximkim
      ..Because in the party elite and special commissions (which consisted of the party elite) there were thoughts about lagging in this direction ..

      In this direction, not that there was no lag, but the USSR was 20 years ahead of the USA. The Spiral program was in full swing by the time Reagan chattered. The Spiral could put a check and checkmate on the entire US space program by the end of the 70s. And only the short-sighted policy of Ustinov and Grechko threw back advanced space ideas for 20 years and turned the USSR from a pioneer of the industry into a catching one ...
  • Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
    Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 31 December 2020 09: 37
    +3
    laughing
    Superintendent Samsonov again rumors about life in the USSR?
  • ximkim
    ximkim 31 December 2020 10: 27
    0
    Quote: Doccor18
    Quote: ximkim
    ..Because in the party elite and special commissions (which consisted of the party elite) there were thoughts about lagging in this direction ..

    In this direction, not that there was no lag, but the USSR was 20 years ahead of the USA. The Spiral program was in full swing by the time Reagan chattered. The Spiral could put a check and checkmate on the entire US space program by the end of the 70s. And only the short-sighted policy of Ustinov and Grechko threw back advanced space ideas for 20 years and turned the USSR from a pioneer of the industry into a catching one ...

    The decisions were taken by the management.
  • iouris
    iouris 31 December 2020 12: 29
    0
    Not sure why "Reagan fought"? Did Kennedy fight?
    So, we are the "evil empire" and Putin is the "prince of darkness"? Thank you, the author - enlightened.
  • Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
    Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 31 December 2020 12: 38
    0
    In the West, everything was calculated very well. We discovered the weak point of the USSR. The Soviet elite was drained of blood by the Great Patriotic War.

    what the hell was the "Soviet elite" war-bled? What is this degenerative delirium? Did Mikoyan suffer from dystrophy? Or bullets whistled over the "elite" and hunger mowed down the leading cadres?
  • Ryaruav
    Ryaruav 31 December 2020 14: 54
    +1
    did not expect such an adequate article from Samsonov, here I agree with him
  • 16112014nk
    16112014nk 31 December 2020 14: 59
    +4
    The Soviet elite did not want victory.
    They wanted something different, which they warned about.
    Mao has long warned:
    1. Esoteric
      Esoteric 1 January 2021 09: 31
      0
      Looked at this, it became already bad. Although I didn't drink yesterday. Oh, those admirers of China.
      1. 16112014nk
        16112014nk 1 January 2021 12: 02
        +2
        What should I do ? You can't erase a word from a song.
      2. ccsr
        ccsr 1 January 2021 12: 56
        +1
        Quote: Ezoterik
        Oh, those admirers of China.

        Recently I came across an interesting article from 2009 about China and the United States, when the world was emerging from the crisis, and even then it was predicted that the Chinese are not so white and fluffy in relation to Russia.
        The idea of ​​this political union was expressed in the United States at the end of the Bush presidency. Then it was wittily called "Chimerica" ​​- from the combination of the English words "China" (China) and "America" ​​(America). Of course, such a name suggests the chimerical properties of the result of crossing a hedgehog with a snake, but it does not deny the very possibility of such a union. The "flowers" of American prosperity on the back of the hardworking Chinese worker have become "berries". Already in February 2009, the new US Secretary of State, Mrs. Clinton, made her first major visit abroad to Beijing. There, she begged the Chinese not to stop buying US government bonds, because the issuance of new bonds is necessary to implement plans to improve the American economy.
        What the Chinese demanded in return is an extremely interesting question. The previous administration seemed to deliberately anger Beijing by strengthening military relations with Taiwan and preventing the "unification of the great Chinese homeland." China has even severed military contacts with the United States on this matter. Now the Americans are hastily restoring these contacts. The progress of the American negotiations in Beijing is a state secret, but even superficial political hermeneutics makes it a Punchinelle secret.
        It is not hard to guess that China is vitally interested in the United States' consent to the "peaceful unification of the Motherland," that is, to the gradual non-military absorption of Taiwan by mainland China. To do this, the Americans would only have to hint in Taipei that their fate has been decided, and America's military assistance and support in the event of an armed conflict are no longer guaranteed to them. The rest is a matter of diplomatic technique: to find a "unification formula" that would allow the weak side, as well as the Americans, to save their face.
        The next subject of Chinese interest is the arms and technology trade. Beijing is interested in fully resuming the level of relations that it had with the West at the height of the Cold War in the 70s and 80s. This period ended when Washington realized that the Cold War with Russia was over, and there was no longer any reasonable reason to help China. As you know, the events in Tiananmen Square served as the reason for the reconsideration of relations. Soon, the United States not only stopped exporting weapons and advanced technologies to China, but also forced its European allies and Japan, and then Israel, to follow them.
        As a result of this turn, China found itself again, as in the 50s and 60s, dependent on the import of arms and military technology from Russia, a country with which it borders and with which it has already had armed conflicts in the past. The truth is on a small scale. The country is also actively arming its Chinese rival and neighbor: India. The Chinese are even more irritated by the fact that Russian weapons supplied to India have significantly higher performance than those sold to Beijing.

        I. Jadan
        http://www.apn.ru/publications/article21432.htm
  • BAI
    BAI 31 December 2020 18: 31
    0
    At that time, the USSR published Collections of Foreign Science Fiction. And the preface to the collection was written by one of the authors, whose stories were presented in the collection. And somewhere in the years 76-78, one of the authors (from the United States) wrote in the preface: "Where is our country heading, if some actor Reagan is eager to become the US president. "Zelensky is far from the first.
    1. Cherry Nine
      Cherry Nine 31 December 2020 19: 24
      -1
      Quote: BAI
      somewhere in the years 76-78, one of the authors (from the USA) wrote in the preface: "Where is our country heading if some actor Reagan is eager to become the US president"

      If a certain American author, not only what is published in the USSR of the 70s, also does not hesitate to write prefaces for the Soviet reader, then this is 100% left rot, an enemy of his country and his people.

      Naturally, all such an audience drowned in Jimmy Carter, one of the worst presidents in American history.
      1. BAI
        BAI 1 January 2021 12: 15
        +3
        then it is 100% left rot, the enemy of his country and his people.

        Isaac Asimov, Robert Sheckley, for example, were published in the USSR (70s) in huge print runs. So what?
        1. Cherry Nine
          Cherry Nine 1 January 2021 14: 02
          0
          Does this somehow change my thesis?
  • Akuzenka
    Akuzenka 31 December 2020 20: 30
    0
    The Soviet elite did not want victory.
    Sorry! They also thought they had agreed.
  • Aleks2000
    Aleks2000 1 January 2021 15: 52
    0
    IMHO, this is the author's fantasy.

    1) "America, itself being on the brink of a severe crisis," is a lie. There was no crisis.
    Whatever you take - it was on the rise in YSA. Industry, Allies, Movies, Music, Literature, Currency, Automotive, Navy, Navy, etc. - everything is on the rise.

    2) "In the mid-80s, the USSR had a powerful potential for a leap into the future ..."
    Lies, perhaps partially.
    Always breaking TVs, radios, tape recorders of shoddy quality, chewable cassettes, sneakers with seams inside - it's impossible to walk.
    I myself went in for skiing - everything was sensible either from the Baltic states, or from over the hill. Plastic skis, rollers, sticks, ointments, krasovki, costumes ...

    "The heart of the noble Kyzildur could not stand it." - remember this.
  • Tektor
    Tektor 2 January 2021 00: 01
    0
    In the mid-80s, the USSR had a powerful potential for a leap into the future.
    But there was enough food for a couple of months at the end of 1991, and the gold reserves were practically used up for purchasing food.