Pay for the love of your parents, citizens!

While the whole country is fighting the coronavirus in a single impulse, our dear (yes, they have "risen in price" for you and me again in terms of their content recently), the deputies are not sitting idly by. It would be better to just sit. But do you have to work out your salary? Therefore, it turns out this is something that we will now discuss.

Instead of state pensions

Usually we expect some strange and not very good things from the very party that is invisibly present in all the affairs of the country. However, today, alas, we are looking at the creation of comrades from under the blue-yellow flag, that is, the Liberal Democratic Party, with complete surprise and dismay. It seems that Zhirinovsky's orally voiced dream has come true more than once:

“Children should pay their parents a pension, not the state”?

The deputies from the Liberal Democratic Party V.L. Pashin and A.V. Andreichenko, a draft amendment to federal legislation was submitted. The project is called "On Amendments to Certain Legislative Acts of the Russian Federation in Part of Measures to Support Able-bodied Adult Children of Their Disabled and Needy Parents". It was accepted for consideration.

What did the deputies want to say while working on their project?

Here is a quote from the project brief.

“The current Family Code of the Russian Federation, along with the obligation to support parents of their minor children, also includes norms obliging adult children to support their disabled parents.

However, as practice shows, government support measures for both minors themselves and their parents are incomparably greater than similar measures aimed at supporting disabled parents and their adult children.

Caring for their elderly and needy parents is the unconditional duty of every person, regardless of whether it is provided for by law or not. "

Well, the translation is clear and straightforward: the state has no money to support it properly. There is a desire, but no money. What should be done in this case? That's right, put the government's hand in the pocket of the citizens.

Already checked by the Russian reality. Works like a clock.

It looks, however, not very. Some kind of taste in the language remains from understanding. Familiar and unpleasant.

I agree that caring for elderly parents is the duty of every normal person. Especially if he is a really normal person. This does not need to be prescribed in the laws, as well as love for children. Everything is simple: if a person is a Person, then he will love his children and honor his parents.

And no scribbles will help him in this. It is the duty of the conscience of every citizen.

And who has a soul for something else, but write him at least five laws, there is zero sense from this.

However, let's not get ahead of ourselves, let's take a closer look at the draft law.

Two percent for mother's services

First of all, gentlemen, the deputies want to change Article 87 of the Family Code of the Russian Federation. In the new edition, the article should look like this:

“Article 87. Obligations of adult children for the maintenance of parents:

1. Able-bodied adult children are obliged to support and take care of their disabled parents who need help. "

That's how you want it, but in this short text everything is simply amazing and disgusting at the same time. The state, at the level of its law, obliges us to take care of our parents. In general, there is, of course, a pretty trick in this commitment.

The state relieves itself of part of the burden of supporting citizens who faithfully plowed for this very state.

But this is all done (as always with us) ugly and with a tinge of contempt for the citizens.

Do not want, you know, to take care of their parents, selfish! And here we are! The law! And in accordance with this, you will, such and such, honor your elderly parents and take care of them!

At your own expense. These are your parents, after all ...

“2. For the purpose of keeping disabled parents in need of help with able-bodied children, the latter are obliged to transfer part of the income they received in the form of remuneration for the performance of labor or other duties, work performed, service rendered in the amount of at least 2 (two) percent of this income, in the form of alimony in favor of their disabled parents in need of help ”.

A very interesting point. Are children obligated to reward parents for work done? Service provided? What other “other duties” are paid at least 2% of income?

That is, we move on, they don't teach in our schools now, there

"Provide educational services",

so?

And by analogy, now, instead of the relationship between parents and children, there will be

"Providing parenting services"

whether?

Clearly, Messrs. Pashin and Andreichenko are clearly driving the wrong direction. Children "reward" their parents. In the form of payment of alimony.

By the way, interestingly, not a word has been said about the income tax on these amounts. And it should. The income will be received by pensioners.

"3. Able-bodied adult children and their disabled parents in need of assistance have the right to conclude an agreement on the payment of alimony, with the definition of a different amount, but not less than that established by paragraph 2 of this article. "

This is how it is mockery. Moreover, what is above the parents, what is above the children.

It's hard for me to imagine what kind of relationship the authors of this law have with their parents, if they quite calmly introduce this into the document? I do not envy, definitely.

But I will note that not a single normal son (and even more so a daughter) will not go with a contract form to his parents. Say,

we will sign, we will settle the rate, and then I will start helping.

But without a signature, it won't work. The document, after all, regulates the level of remuneration for the performance by parents of their duties in the proper volume and quality.

It's disgusting. But let's move on.

Welcome to court

"4. In case of non-fulfillment and / or improper fulfillment by able-bodied adult children of their obligations to support disabled parents in need of assistance, as well as in the absence of an agreement on the payment of alimony for disabled parents in need of assistance, collection is carried out in court. "

Oh how ...

Dear Vitaly Lvovich! Dear Andrey Valerievich! Do you seriously believe that your parents will sue you? Or will you go to court against your children?

Farce, sorry, but as it is - farce.

Perhaps I will repeat myself. Those who really love and respect their parents, so this (if I may say so) law will be useless. Who cares ...

"5. The amount of alimony collected from each of the children is determined by the court on the basis of the material and marital status of the parents and children and other noteworthy interests of the parties in a fixed amount of money to be paid monthly. "

I see that the courts, which today are not working in the best way, will receive such a good incentive for "development."

Moreover, I predict not so much that parents will turn to the courts for the court to determine them "based on ...", but vice versa.

Rather, abandoned children (of whom we have not just a lot, but a very large number) will begin to deprive the title of parents of those who "did not perform properly." Because for some members of our society, the temptation will be very great: to legally receive help from children in old age, on whom I have not really bothered in my life.

"7. Children may be exempted from the obligation to support their disabled parents in need of assistance if the court establishes that the parents evaded their parental duties.

Children are exempt from paying alimony to parents deprived of parental rights. "

That is what was mentioned above.

Childless - state pension. The rest - to court

And finally, no less interesting point, which was between the two.

"6. When determining the amount of alimony, the court has the right to take into account all able-bodied adult children of a given parent, regardless of whether a claim has been presented to all children, to one of them or to several of them. "

But what about those members of the community who have no children? You know, strange as it may seem, there are also completely childless families. Where it just didn't work out for physical reasons. And there are families where, alas, the children died or died before their parents. Disasters, accidents, wars, diseases, crimes, etc.

And what to do with these citizens? Are they second-class people now? Strange, isn't it? What then should be done with Article 19 of the Constitution of the Russian Federation, which guarantees all citizens of the country equality of rights and freedoms?

Here we clearly see that everyone is equal, but those who have children are more equal.

On the one hand, it seems like a concern for increasing the number of taxpayers. But on the other hand, in fact, it is a completely anti-constitutional law. Since not only does it shift the responsibilities of the state onto the shoulders of citizens (once again), on the other hand, it generates inequality again among citizens, dividing them into two unequal categories.

Well, and most importantly, I will repeat myself, in my opinion, the draft law is made clumsily and illiterately, it humiliates the very meaning of the relationship between parents and children and reduces all this to payment

"Parenting services".

However, each reader may have his own point of view.

But for some reason I am sure that the majority of readers will not run to the courts and will not expect this from their children. Somehow we have always dealt with this matter from time immemorial.

And with the hand of the state in the pocket of the citizen, we also need to do something.

Historically, this has not led to anything good, has it?

Comments

[Eldorado]

Another crazy article!

[Genry]

Quote: El Dorado

Another crazy article!

Join us!

[VORON538]

LDPR as well as EP have long discredited themselves!

[tihonmarine]

Quote: VORON538

LDPR as well as EP have long discredited themselves!

What did the deputies want to say while working on their project?
The rich will get richer and the poor poorer.

[bayard]

It's just that Zhirinovsky's party is working out its own and United Russia’s idea of ​​abolishing pensions with the participation of the state. But it is the STATE that is to blame for the fact that the Pension Fund has already been plundered several times, starting in 1991 \ 92 and ending with the last violent (and deception, which is the same) transfers of citizens' pension contributions to private (non-state) Pension Fund, which after accumulation their accounts of astronomical amounts were hastily and successfully transferred offshore to the personal accounts of their leaders.
Do you think that such actions are possible without a corruption component? Do you think that nothing stuck to the sticky palms of the highest state officials during this robbery?
And after all, none of these thieves who left for England and other "reliable countries" did not find, did not return them to the bunks, and the money - to the robbed citizens ...
With such a triumphant robbery, can the PF have the necessary funds to pay pensions today?
Of course no .
For everything has already been stolen "before them."
And now they are trying to completely abolish the responsibility of the state for all this bedlam and for elderly citizens who are left without pensions.
After all, the PF of Russia is formed on a "solidarity basis", this principle does not imply the existence of personal pension accounts. This means that people will find themselves without means of existence ...
And here "BRILLIANT" idea - "Let them be kept by children."
And the state will go into new "breakthroughs" and "achievements".
After all, old people ... are so bad for the liberal economy.
They, perhaps, also eutonasia - voluntary-compulsory, not only legalize, but also promote. For this category of citizens.
And it will even be an act of "mercy" from these self-proclaimed "masters", because death from hunger, disease (without drugs) and perhaps even a roof over your head (how to pay for housing and communal services?) Will be painful and disheartening.

And just don't consider THIS the initiative of the Liberal Democratic Party alone - this is the dream of all modern authorities ... just not every representative of it is ready to voice this.

And ALL power is guilty in this situation.
Starting from the head.
Who was there who promoted at one time the transfer of pension savings to "non-state" Pension Fund?
Well, let's remember.
Maybe it's time to hold the answer for what you have done?
Maybe from these gentlemen and collect all the shortage of the current PF?
From their personal (!) Funds?
Blame - PAY.

But for this it is necessary that the gasket becomes different.
Quite different.
Both ideologically and in composition.

And just do not think that I am calling for something ... illegal. But if the government (albeit in this specific and narrow case) becomes the enemy of its People, the People have the right to defend themselves.
... And so at one time I wanted to believe in the possibility of a "revolution from above" ...
... that would be the best possible solution ...
... but it is obvious that in our case today it is a utopia.
... the tale of the "good king" ... is over.

[tihonmarine]

Quote: bayard

But it is the STATE that is to blame for the fact that the Pension Fund has already been plundered several times, starting in 1991 \ 92 and ending with the last violent (and deceit

So the pension fund is given to private hands, like Gosnano. The money does not go to hospitals, but to a private foundation, whatever else you want.

[bayard]

So I mean THIS.
And what is the time to ask for THIS.
Not from a dummy "zits-chairman", but from those who started it all, spent it and used it for mercenary and very unkind purposes.
Do they want a state "like under Nicholas II"?
And how did it end for the authorities, do they remember?
When not a single military unit came forward for the former tsar ... not a single attempt at liberation ... When no one regretted him and stood up for him?
Rosgvardia today, of course, numbering 30 percent more than ALL Ground Forces of the Russian Army ... is this ... from whom? ... who is the most terrible and dangerous enemy for them?
The people?
So after all, both the Army and the National Guard are also part of the People ... and then - under Nicholas II, the army was also wow - mobilized, fighting and even (!) Winning the hardest war ...
It looks like the people are simply interfering with this power.
And she seeks to get rid of him as quickly as possible ...
In any case, all of her actions are exactly that and have no double interpretation.

[low]

understood for a long time

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: Bearded

Our Duma is crazy. He bears such a mui Ne.

This is still a bill. Therefore, those who submitted it are moral u-r-o-d-s.
And the Duma will become them when it adopts it in the third reading.
And if the president signs, then I'm afraid to say ...

[astepanov]

Quote: Krasnoyarsk

This is still a bill.

I think that the Duma will come to a compromise solution: to collect taxes to the Pension Fund in full, and not to pay pensions: let the elderly deal with their children themselves. Such an example already exists: pensions for working pensioners are not indexed, and the pension tax from their salaries is collected in full. Although the Constitution clearly says about the indexation of pensions and there is not a word that discrimination is allowed. This also speaks about what the Basic Law is worth, which you can spit on, and the parliament and the government, spitting quite calmly.

[Eldorado]

If Mr. Svarog is already drawn, then definitely delusional! Ukrovaffe already molds cons!

[Svarog]

Quote: El Dorado

Another crazy article!

The article that even morality is trying to sell and digitize, now it was rated at 2%.

[Machito]

Volodya received the third warning. Gift for the New Year. I hope that you will not be demoted with gold shoulder straps next year.)))

[Svarog]

Quote: Bearded

Volodya received the third warning. Gift for the New Year. I hope that you will not be demoted with gold shoulder straps next year.)))

Dear Borodach, at the expense of next year, it is difficult to assume something .. but considering that they have erased the quote by Zh. Alferov, which was not deleted half a year ago .. we can assume in what direction everything is "developing" here. The stronger the "development" of medicine, education, the economy of the social component, the stronger the "development" of freedom of speech, publicity .. The country's leadership has headed for the Central African Republic .. and I would not be surprised if next year, our deputies adopt a law where it will be prohibited any criticism of those in power ...
I remember your comment literally, it’s strange that it was written out for it before .. in fact, it was very faithful, stylistically soft .. only one word remotely and with a certain amount of imagination could be associated with obscenities .. I think you should contact administration and appeal this warning ..
Sincerely
Happy New Year!

[Dante Alighieri]

The country's leadership has set a course for the Central African Republic ... and I would not be surprised if next year our deputies adopt a law where any criticism of those in power will be prohibited at all ...

I regret to inform you that such laws have already been passed, just shortly before the New Year, while everyone was busy setting the table and buying gifts. Moreover, not one law was adopted, but a whole package, which included, among other things:

The Law on Campaigning on the Internet, which provides that any publication on the Internet (up to repost) in any way describing, supporting or otherwise positively characterizing individual politicians or political associations (parties, movements, etc.) is campaigning, for which the corresponding agreement must be drawn up. If there is no current contract, then a fine is imposed on citizens for the first committed act - from 5 to 10 thousand rubles, for a repeated act - from 25 to 50 thousand rubles, on legal entities - from 100 to 500 thousand rubles, which comparable, for example, with the sanctions imposed by Part 2. Art. 6.3 of the Administrative Code for violation of legislation in the field of ensuring the sanitary and epidemiological well-being of the population. What is ah? Do they want to hint to us that the virus of dissent is just as dangerous as any other infectious disease, and its carriers must be destroyed or isolated?



Internet defamation law criminalizing virtually anyone who disagrees with the official position



The law on insults and libel against representatives of state power, which provides for a fine of up to 700 thousand rubles.



Tightening of sanctions for holding rallies and demonstrations, which was supplemented by the fact that from now on, by a court decision, the presence or movement of citizens in public places aimed at forming or expressing opinions can be recognized as a mass event. Read, you gathered a group of neighbors to discuss the problems at home, and the head of your housing organization, the decision that you are trying to challenge, being a part-time member (daughter / son, brother, matchmaker, etc.) of a party known to all, saw this and reported it to the competent authorities. And now you are already being fined for holding a public political event. And if, God forbid, you and your neighbors had to step into the territory of the roadway (parking) during this process, the fine will increase many times over.



Well, the cherry on the cake, but already from the category of domestic issues.
The law on renovation throughout the country, adopted to please the regional and federal construction lobby and, in fact, deprives us of ownership of our square meters, if they are located in an attractive place for future construction.



And you cannot be indignant, because you fall under the action of the first four listed laws, which have already received the approval of the state. Duma, it means that it is already almost acting (the Federation Council consists of the same personalities, so there will be no snag. As for the president, it is enough to remember how the document on the introduction of peacekeepers in Karabakh was signed to make everything clear. Moment at 3:50).


It's strange only that for some reason no one talks about these laws ...
In any case, Happy New Year, dear forum users!

[Koshak]

The authors of the bill have 2% of morality ....

[antivirus]

The main thing is not about building 10 aircraft carriers, it's already good!
put PC +, rarely. but he pulled the news right.
Soon, the law will proportionally divide the responsibilities of children to support their parents - "if there are more than 3 children. The burden of maintaining the family is reduced by xxx %%" - BENEFITS WILL BE - AND THIS IS A KIFF FOR THE LAWFISHER.
HOW OLD IS THE GENIUS OF THIS DRAFT LAW?
IN THE USSR OR WHEN EBN GROWED?

[DrEng527]

Quote: El Dorado

Another crazy article!

Exactly! The trivial idea of ​​an analogy with child support does not occur to the author ...
Or does he believe that only the state owes everything?

[Pensive Lawyer]

Well, not to say that delusional, but the author does not quite understand the principle of interpretation of the articles ...

“2. For the purpose of keeping disabled parents in need of help with able-bodied children, the latter are obliged to transfer part of the income they received in the form of remuneration for the performance of labor or other duties, work performed, service rendered in the amount of at least 2 (two) percent of this income, in the form of alimony in favor of their disabled parents in need of help ”.

Well, where did the author see the services of the parents here?
It should read "income in the form of remuneration for the performance of labor or other duties, work performed, service rendered" together.
Then there will be no righteous anger about encroaching on parents.
The rest of the points of the proposed changes are analogous to the payment of child support. With the right to conclude an agreement on payment, judicial collection and others.

The bill is very controversial, but, taking into account the upcoming abolition of the funded part of the pension (for the generation of the 90s and beyond, most likely, for sure), unfortunately, it is necessary, but not in the form as we see it now and as proposed by the LDPR deputies.

[hagen]

Quote: Pensive Lawyer

The bill is very controversial,

Don't you think that this is just an attempt to create formal conditions for summing up the amounts for the maintenance of parents as a tax deduction?

[Jünger]

In general, the idea is good for the children of the parents to support. There is nothing unnatural in it, but there is a lot of benefit.
It is necessary to legally deduct some percentage from the salary to the parents' account while they are alive, and reduce the pension percentage.

[paul3390]

I don’t know about you - but for me personally, when my children’s grandchildren went, I have to help them myself. It's an expensive pleasure - to multiply and multiply .. (Glory to the Great Putin !!) What the hell is the percentage on my account ..

Or do you think that extremely well-to-do characters are worth breeding?

[Jünger]

Quote: paul3390

Or do you think that extremely well-to-do characters are worth breeding?

Yes, somehow they multiplied without security for millennia. And if we want our state to have a future, everything must continue with the old methods and pace.
The more Russians there are, the better. It doesn't matter if they are poor or rich.
The poor will look for ways to wiggle their legs to become rich.
Do you want to create an almshouse out of the state? The almshouses will be covered by comrades from abroad, who, when breeding, do not look at the mat. security.

[Dym71]

Quote: Junger

The poor will look for ways to wiggle their legs to become rich.

Brains need to be wiggled

[Jünger]

Quote: Dym71

Brains need to be wiggled

Totally agree

[IS-80_RVGK2]

So why don’t you move?

[Jünger]

Quote: IS-80_RVGK2

So why don’t you move?

I'm moving, boy And dump the parents as they ask.
And at the same time I know "comrades" whose parents live alone, abandoned. And strangers take care of them.
Such children should be boiled in boiling water .. a law on this would also be very good.

[alekseykabanets]

Quote: Junger

I'm moving, boy ...

Not very noticeable, rather not at all noticeable. I have five children, what should I file for alimony instead of a pension? The state must provide citizens with a dignified old age. And the business of children is to love and respect their parents, but here it depends on upbringing. You really do not understand where these reforms are leading?

[Jünger]

Quote: aleksejkabanets

I have five children, what should I file for alimony instead of a pension?

They have to feed you without any alimony or laws. If they are normal people. And if not, then the law should force them to do so.
So it was always and everywhere "before historical materialism."

Quote: aleksejkabanets

The state must provide citizens with a dignified old age.

This is stupid. The state may be covered with a copper basin tomorrow.
A man who builds a house on sand is stupid.
A person who hopes for something external, beyond his control, is stupid.
And you can bring up children in the right way, influence them correctly. You should have done it. Otherwise you are stupid.
It's simple.

[alekseykabanets]

Quote: Junger

They have to feed you without any alimony or laws. If they are normal people.

Nobody argues with this, it is written about it in the Old Testament. But why do I need a state that does not provide for my old age? Doesn't teach my children? Doesn't heal me and my family for free? Why do I pay him taxes? What would all sorts of Mordashevs and Abramovichs buy yachts for themselves?

Quote: Junger

This is stupid. The state may be covered with a copper basin tomorrow.

Of course this is possible, but such things should be treated as force majeure.

Quote: Junger

And you can bring up children in the right way, influence them correctly. You should have done it.

You see, in order to educate children correctly, they do not have to go to school, because they are brought up there incorrectly. Do many people have the opportunity to raise their children themselves?

[Jünger]

The state is like snow and rain, it will be independent of you and will be what it will be. It has always been and will be so.
Therefore, the question - "why do I need such a state?" - a child's question.
In general, being an adult and a man is very difficult, and I have the impression that a huge number of our citizens are over-aged kids who are waiting for someone to come now and wipe one place for them.
Therefore, do not address stupid questions to me - you have been given life and a head to solve all of them yourself.
And no one will help with this.

[alekseykabanets]

Quote: Junger

The state is like snow and rain, it will be independent of you and will be what it will be.

It will either be dependent on me (as a representative of the people), or it will give way to another state, which will be popular. There are already examples of such in history. Where did your slave psychology come from?

[DrEng527]

Quote: aleksejkabanets

or it will give way to another state, which will be popular.

aha, only there will be blood, devastation and the growth of a cent for everything ... as it was in the USSR, when bread was 1,8 times more expensive than in the Republic of Ingushetia, and sugar was 2,5 ...

[72jora72]

aha, only there will be blood, devastation and growth of a cent for everything ... request as it was in the USSR,

You are probably from a parallel universe to us !? IN our The USSR had no blood, devastation and rising prices, ...........

[DrEng527]

Quote: 72jora72

In our USSR there was no blood, devastation and rising prices, ...........

Really? you don't know the history of the USSR blood stopped flowing only in the 70s, and prices rose constantly ...

[alekseykabanets]

Quote: DrEng527

blood stopped flowing only in the 70s, and prices rose constantly ...

What do you mean by this bold statement?

[DrEng527]

Quote: aleksejkabanets

What do you mean by this bold statement?

Do you know the history of the USSR? I will enlighten: until 22g just GV, then Basmachi, then collectivization, then the Great Terror, then there were wars - Finnish, World War II, then Bandera, forest brothers, etc., then Novocherkask ...

[alekseykabanets]

Quote: DrEng527

Big terror

Big big? Straight after Solzhenitsyn?

Quote: DrEng527

then there were wars - Finnish, World War II, then Bandera, forest brothers, etc., then Novocherkask ...

You put Novocherkassk execution on a par with the Second World War? You probably finished school recently? And what do you mean in this case by the words "blood has stopped shedding"?

[DrEng527]

Quote: aleksejkabanets

Big big? Straight after Solzhenitsyn?

Do you know the official figure of the executed? I sympathize...

Quote: aleksejkabanets

Do you put the Novocherkassk execution on a par with the Second World War?

and that blood of a different color was there? Or does it not count for you less than a hundred thousand corpses? Do you have any questions about the rest of the periods?

Quote: aleksejkabanets

You probably finished school recently?

Against my background, you are a priori illiterate

Quote: aleksejkabanets

And what do you mean in this case by the words "blood has stopped shedding"?

the troops stopped firing at the people ...

[alekseykabanets]

Quote: DrEng527

Do you know the official figure of the executed? I sympathize...

Provide, with links to a documentary source. Just do not quote the Ogonyok magazine, please.

Quote: DrEng527

Against my background, you are a priori illiterate

Well, yes, well, yes, but what have you learned besides inflated conceit?

Quote: DrEng527

the troops stopped firing at the people ...

In the Finnish and WWII troops fired at the people? So on what basis do you put the Novocherkassk execution on a par with the Second World War or the Finnish war. I know what color the blood is. I do not in any way justify the shooting of workers, but you are your thesis that

Quote: DrEng527

blood stopped flowing only in the 70s

have never been proven. By your logic, it flows all the time, since quantitative indicators do not matter.

[DrEng527]

Quote: aleksejkabanets

Well, yes, well, yes, but what have you learned besides inflated conceit?

so it’s you asking me about the victims of repression, but I’m not you! Moreover, you are a source of treasures - you are ridiculous and stupid! Everything is in the public domain! Don't be lazy

Quote: aleksejkabanets

In the Finnish and WWII troops fired at the people?

Yes! if you think a little, you will understand ...

Quote: aleksejkabanets

have never been proven.

cannot be proved to someone who does not want to hear!

[alekseykabanets]

Quote: DrEng527

so it’s you asking me about the victims of repression, but I’m not you! Moreover, you are a source of treasures - you are ridiculous and stupid! Everything is in the public domain! Don't be lazy

Yes, you don't often meet people who are not at all "disfigured" by their intellect. Thank you for cheering me up before the holiday. That is, you seriously think that I have to prove your delusional statements? Or do you simply do not understand what "documentary sources" are? Or do you think that "gentlemen should take their word for it"?

Quote: DrEng527

Quote: aleksejkabanets
In the Finnish and WWII troops fired at the people?

Yes! if you think a little, you will understand ...

Well, at least here there will be links to sources in which it is unequivocally proven that the Red Army shot at its people? Or blah-blah-blah again?

[DrEng527]

Quote: aleksejkabanets

Yes, you don't often meet people who are not at all "disfigured" by their intellect.

are you talking about yourself? well, you are very self-critical ...

Quote: aleksejkabanets

documentary sources "?

I well respect your laziness and illiteracy - read the works of Dean Zemsky, everything is written there about repression! With reference to documents - can you search by name on the Web?

Quote: aleksejkabanets

then the Red Army shot at its people? Or blah-blah-blah again?

so this is a banality - in any battle in a settlement, civilians die, as in the bombing Learn to understand the text, not think in blocks of propaganda ...

[alekseykabanets]

Quote: DrEng527

I well respect your laziness and illiteracy - read the works of Dean Zemsky, everything is written there about repression! With reference to documents - can you search by name on the Web?

Do you generally understand what a historical source is introduced into scientific circulation? Clever you are ours, where did you study? And did you study at all?

Quote: DrEng527

Quote: aleksejkabanets
then the Red Army shot at its people? Or blah-blah-blah again?

so this is a banality - in any battle in a settlement, civilians die, as in the bombing

Do not excuse yourself, just say that you lied and that's it. And here the bombing, you wrote

Quote: DrEng527

Quote: aleksejkabanets
In the Finnish and WWII troops fired at the people?

Yes! if you think a little, you will understand ...

that the Red Army was shooting at its own people. Congratulations lied.

[DrEng527]

Quote: aleksejkabanets

Do you generally understand what a historical source is introduced into scientific circulation?

in other words, the work of a doctor of historical sciences is not an indication for you - you are smarter ... you are an ordinary illiterate amateur ...

Quote: aleksejkabanets

Are you ours? Where did you study? And did you study at all?

against my background, you are always an illiterate amateur ...

Quote: aleksejkabanets

that the Red Army was shooting at its own people. Congratulations lied.

you lied, and I'm right! you just do not know how to read and understand what you read!
Well, of course, it's not yours to think - I got excited by offering it to you ...

[DrEng527]

https://www.politpros.com/journal/read/?ID=783
you read, illiterate ... I do not quite agree with Zemsky's methodology, but as the first iteration he is quite ...

[alekseykabanets]

Quote: DrEng527

https://www.politpros.com/journal/read/?ID=783
you read, illiterate ... I do not quite agree with Zemsky's methodology, but as the first iteration he is quite ...

First, the "smart guy" you should have cited such a link at once, if you argue about something. Secondly, the historical source, in this context, is documents (i.e. primary sources), the authenticity of which is beyond doubt. The work of Zemsky, although he is a recognized author, is not the primary source. And fourthly, if you have read this work of course, what kind of "Great Terror" are you writing about then? And where did you get such a wording as "Great Terror"?

[DrEng527]

Quote: aleksejkabanets

you should have provided such a link immediately

I don't owe you anything, illiterate ... sane people thank you for the training, but this is not about you ...

Quote: aleksejkabanets

second, a historical source, in this context, is documents (i.e. primary sources), the authenticity of which is beyond doubt

how stupid you look, trying to seem smart ...

Quote: aleksejkabanets

And fourthly, if you have read this work of course, what "Great Terror" do you write about?

it looks like you do not know how to read - if the growth per year from 1000 to 350 shot to 000 1 is that? see table XNUMX

[alekseykabanets]

Quote: DrEng527

I don't owe you anything, illiterate ... bully sane people thank you for the training, but this is not about you ...

Only complete degraders do not understand that any statements require confirmation.

Quote: DrEng527

it looks like you do not know how to read - if the growth per year from 1000 to 350 shot to 000 1 is that? see table XNUMX

Is this, in your opinion, an indicator of the "Great Terror"? You have not tried to compare with other countries, for the entire period (not these two years) with the United States, for example.

Quote: DrEng527

second, a historical source, in this context, is documents (i.e. primary sources), the authenticity of which is beyond doubt

how stupid you look, trying to seem smart ...

Is that all you can say about the primary sources? Zemskoy himself writes that a number of documents used by him raises doubts from his opponents, therefore they are not indisputable. In addition, your rudeness begins to strain me.

[DrEng527]

Quote: aleksejkabanets

Only complete degraders do not understand that any statements require confirmation.

you are boring, poor, you need to prove 2 + 2 = 4 morons

Quote: aleksejkabanets

This, in your opinion, is the indicator of the "Great Terror"

yes, 300 times growth ... not enough for you?

Quote: aleksejkabanets

You have not tried to compare with other countries, for the entire period (not for these two years) with the United States, for example.

I expect from you figures and source ...

Quote: aleksejkabanets

Is that all you can say about the primary sources?

you tire with stupidity, you need a link to the case of each ZK?

Quote: aleksejkabanets

In addition, your rudeness begins to strain me.

and your stupidity?

[72jora72]

Do you know the history of the USSR?

I was born, studied and lived in the USSR (apparently unlike you),

then the Bandera, forest brothers, etc., then Novocherkask ..

these are the particulars that exist in any established state. And yes, all the Bandera, Basmachi and forest brothers did not do even a tenth of the harm than Gorbachev, Yeltsin and his comrades (maybe they came to us from your parallel reality?)

[DrEng527]

Quote: 72jora72

I was born, studied and lived in the USSR (apparently unlike you),

Really? and do not know that 4,5 million were dispossessed in the early 30s by Zemskov? Of these, 2 million were exiled, of which 600 tons died according to the same author?

Quote: 72jora72

this particular

aha, chips ...

Quote: 72jora72

Orbachev, Yeltsin

so these are the first secretaries of the regional committees of the CPSU maybe Bandera, Basmachi and whites were more honest?

[72jora72]

maybe Bandera, Basmachi and whites were more honest?

I don’t go into the psychology of scum, and their reasons for becoming such are not interesting to me, the only thing that was easier to deal with them was. My dad once liquidated a couple near Lvov (special company of the KGB of the USSR)

[DrEng527]

Quote: 72jora72

I don’t go into the psychology of scum,

but for me the psychology of Lenin's / Stalin's executioners is curious - to destroy your people for money and rations

[72jora72]

but for me the psychology of Lenin's / Stalin's executioners is curious - to destroy your people for money and rations

I understand you, you probably tell your children different stories, and at the end you add:And then my son, these Stalinist executioners shot me .......

[DrEng527]

Quote: 72jora72

And then my son, these Stalinist executioners shot me .......

why lie? I tell how my grandfather was robbed in 1930 and exiled in the winter with young children, and how my mother from birth until 12 years old was under the commandant's office ... and all the Stalinist eagles from the NKVD / NKGB did it - it is understandable for the happiness of the working people

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: Junger

The state is like snow and rain

You, with all your "intelligence", do not understand the functions of the state. We, citizens of the state, why did we create it? In order for it to protect us from those troubles and misfortunes, from which each of us individually is not able to defend ourselves.
Therefore, we are not for the state, but the state for us. We, the people, keep it for this.

1. To organize us to fulfill the task of improving the living standards of all citizens, and not a separate handful of especially "smart"
2. To protect citizens from external aggression - the army
3. For protection from internal enemies - the police and other services,
4. To protect against diseases - the Ministry of Health
5. For education - min. science and education.
To carry out these functions, the state collects taxes, but that is not all. Find out - what percentage of the cost of production is the wage fund. Why is it so low?
But the cost price also includes
Contributions to various off-budget funds (for example, a pension fund, social insurance fund, etc.);
Those. all working citizens fill the FIU and the state treasury with their labor.
Therefore, it is not the state that pays us our pension, but all working citizens pay. When I worked, I paid someone a pension. Now those who work pay me. It is not the state that treats me at its own expense; it is my working fellow citizens who pay for my treatment.
Something like that.

[Jünger]

You did not create anything. We were all driven into the state by military force and forced to live together. First, the Rurik, and at the end - the communists, and now their last.

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: Junger

You did not create anything. We were all driven into the state by military force and forced to live together. First, the Rurik, and at the end - the communists, and now their last.

Everything was a little more complicated. Well, who am I ...

[IS-80_RVGK2]

Quote: Junger

The state is like snow and rain, it will be independent of you and will be what it will be. It has always been and will be so.

That's nonsense. This has never been, no, and never will be.

Quote: Junger

In general, being an adult and a man is very difficult, and I have the impression that a huge number of our citizens are over-aged kids who are waiting for someone to come now and wipe one place for them.

And only you, d'Artagnan. And you know how it should be. It's familiar. That's just why you're so adult and responsible, you constantly carry some kind of childish nonsense, it's incomprehensible.

[Jünger]

Quote: IS-80_RVGK2

That's just why you're so adult and responsible, you constantly carry some kind of childish nonsense, it's incomprehensible.

But I'm happy with everything and don't cry constantly like you, boy
Isn't this the meaning of life - to be content and solve your problems on your own. And here you are doing all that basically looking for those to blame for your shitty life.

[IS-80_RVGK2]

Quote: Junger

And here you are doing all that basically looking for those to blame for your shitty life.

Who are you? Here on the site are representatives of a wide variety of political and economic views. What are you such an adult doing here? Decided to teach the lives of others who are not as correct as you? Well, you can't even substantiate your opinion in the slightest degree. You are talking all kinds of childish nonsense. No, it doesn't make a teacher out of you. Not even a student of you.

[72jora72]

The state is like snow and rain, it will be independent of you and will be what it will be.

So let this "state" support and protect itself, for some reason everyone forgets what it is state for people, not people for the state.

[Kronos]

For example, slavery has always been, for example, only people refuse it.

[IS-80_RVGK2]

Quote: Junger

So it was always and everywhere "before historical materialism."

And what did you mean by that? On average, the children were cared for. But everything happened even before historical materialism. And often this is what caused the hair to stand on end even under historical materialism.

Quote: Junger

And if not, then the law should force them to do so.

I think more enforcement laws are needed. To patriotism against the background of gigantic social stratification, to the adoration of capitalism against the background of a planetary economic crisis and preparations for the Third World War. Well, and so on.

Quote: Junger

This is stupid. The state may be covered with a copper basin tomorrow.
A man who builds a house on sand is stupid.
A person who hopes for something external, beyond his control, is stupid.

Maybe yes, maybe no. So, well, you understand. Hope for children can be sand too. Therefore, in order not to harbor fruitless hopes, it is necessary not to behave according to the principle of a wise gudgeon, but to fight for the state to be the spokesman for the interests of the people, and not a handful of oligarchs.

[aglet]

"They must feed you without any alimony or laws. If they are normal people."
then, where is this state, with its various taxes?

[paul3390]

The state must provide citizens with a dignified old age

In general, old age should be provided for by those who have appropriated for themselves a significant part of the fruits of human labor. That is, the state and the bourgeoisie.

[Alf]

Quote: paul3390

That is, the state and the bourgeoisie.

Not bourgeois. There are no such people in Russia, there are, as Bolshiye Usov put it, "socially responsible businessmen."

[paul3390]

"socially responsible businessmen" is an oxymoron. For a business, by definition, is solely responsible to its wallet. The whiskers drive the blizzard. As usual.

[lucul]

The state must provide citizens with a dignified old age.

As always - the cart is ahead of the horse)))
The most important function of the state is to ensure the safety of citizens from external threats. With everything else, people will figure it out on their own, it was so at all times, in all countries. And only the communists owe everyone the state.
If the Duma has taken such measures, let them "release" the salary. After all, it is no secret that all these benefits are exactly from the lost wages of people.

[Fan-fan]

Perhaps you are a government official, since you are defending the state in this way? The state will always defend itself, the state has defenders: special services, police, courts and the National Guard with riot police, but what does an ordinary person have? Who will protect the person?

[Kronos]

Oga and social guarantees are nowhere to be found.

[aglet]

"The primary function of the state is to ensure the safety of citizens"
and not only from external threats, but also from poverty, too, and from internal threats, if citizens fulfill their part of the contract

[Hypertension]

Quote: Junger

And dump the parents as they ask.

But it turns out that you don’t give something to your children and your wife? And didn't your parents deserve a decent old age with their work? It will be vile to give birth to children "for a rainy day." Something, the state is farther and farther from the people ... Then what is the point in the state? Now you will think twice before punishing a child for a deuce - well, how will he not give money in the future ...

[DrEng527]

Quote: Hyperion

And didn't your parents deserve a decent old age with their work?

yes people worked differently someone raised children, and not plowed in production and the pension is therefore minimal ...

[aglet]

"Yes, people worked in different ways, someone raised children, and not plowed in production and the pension is therefore minimal ..."
and someone, and the majority of them, raised children, and plowed in production, and at their expense they pay a social pension to those who supposedly raised children, but in fact just parasitized on society, all self-employed do not pay taxes, but all the best want like everyone else

[DrEng527]

Quote: aglet

all self-employed people do not pay taxes, but they want all the best, like everyone else

who argues, therefore, any state pension is an average ...

[Esoteric]

There is an example. A woman raising her son alone. How she "moves her legs." At six in the morning he runs to clean the snow so that the gentlemen can drive by car. Then he runs to work as a cleaner at five! seats, comes at eight in the evening, and falls to sleep. She has no vacations, not a single day off. The income for this hard labor is about 38.
How did she deserve it? She has no life, no life at all, she is literally dying.
Is this life normal? If anything, I want to clean the snow. There is simply no strength to look at her torment. I help as much as I can.

[Jünger]

Quote: Ezoterik

There is an example. A woman raising her son alone.

Bad example.
And why is she suddenly raising her son alone? If she is an honest widow, then this is one thing - it is not her fault.
If she is a divorcee or walked up on the side, then this is purely her problem. A single mother is not healthy. Such things should be punished severely.
"Before historical materialism" there was a correct understanding of the question - if a woman with a child without a husband, then this is either a widow or a walker.
You must answer for your upbringing and mistakes.

[Esoteric]

The child's father is a git. He lived at her expense, she plowed in. Then she kicked him out. I didn't file for alimony, not that kind of person. I clenched my teeth and work. There are still such, yes. On people like her, the earth holds, forgive the pathos.

[DrEng527]

Quote: Ezoterik

The child's father is a git. He lived at her expense, she plowed in. Then she kicked him out.

if he is so bad, why did he become the father of her child?

Quote: Ezoterik

I did not file for alimony, not that kind of person

Which one then? sorry, but from your words her portrait is somewhat strange ...

Quote: Ezoterik

On people like her, the earth holds, forgive the pathos.

Quote: Ezoterik

Then he runs to work as a cleaner

Of course, all specialties are important, all sorts of mothers are needed, but if the Earth is supported by the cleaning women, then it (the Earth) will not last long ...

Quote: Ezoterik

Is this life normal?

no, but she created it for herself on the basis of her cockroaches ... and I'm afraid there will be problems with the child ahead ...

[Esoteric]

The guy is great. Very smart, doesn't drink, doesn't smoke. Unfortunately, oncology, now undergoing treatment, but I already wrote about it here.
May God get out of this trouble. God grant him. And God grant his mother health, for bringing up a Man!

[DrEng527]

Quote: Ezoterik

Very smart, doesn't drink, doesn't smoke. Unfortunately oncology,

hmm, it's better to go to church here ...

[Esoteric]

You know, when you come to a church, to a temple, standing somewhere on the outskirts, where only one father serves, and without even approaching him, you approach the icon of the Savior and ask Him for forgiveness. it's like a shower, all the dirt is simply washed off, all the dirt is washed out from the soul.
You can be mischievous.

[DrEng527]

Quote: Ezoterik

You can be mischievous.

I don’t make a mistake - here they really need to go to church - something bad about them ...

[Esoteric]

Thank you! May God give you all the best, and most importantly health, this is the most important thing, the rest will follow.
And how can they do bad things, materialists, witnesses of the teachings of Marx and his associates, will never believe, and even when on their own skin, forgive the tautology, they will be convinced, they still will not believe.
Well, God is with them, materialists, believers that the world arose out of nothing.

[aglet]

"Well, God is with them, materialists, believers that the world arose out of nothing."
well, yes, after all, in the beginning there was a word, and this, wow, is a very material thing, where are two particles before it

[aglet]

"You can be mischievous."
why, just ridiculous. someone is to blame for you, and someone forgives you. did you try to be responsible for everything, for your life, for your actions, and not blame the god?

[DrEng527]

Quote: aglet

tweet, for your life, for your actions, and not blame the god?

you do not know the subject well - in Orthodoxy, God gives free will ...

[aglet]

"you know the subject poorly - in Orthodoxy, God gives free will ..."
that you are not using this freedom well. and why should I know all your delusions?

[DrEng527]

Quote: aglet

that you are not using this freedom well. and why should I know all your delusions?

decided to teach others? usually ignorant sinners

[aglet]

"Have you decided to teach others? Usually ignorant sinners"
Am I teaching someone? you are completely neutral for me. I am not teaching you. life will teach you

[Esoteric]

Her verse:
I'm a fly, I want to live the same
I ask you people, do not poison
When I fly away from you, then speak wrong
You will be bored without me
No one will play on their nerves
You hate cursing
And God won't recognize you for that

[Avior]

... I didn't file for alimony, not that kind of person.

Alimony is generally paid not for the wife, but for the child, and the guy, judging by what was written, will not be superfluous, no matter how much the mother earns. The amount of alimony does not depend on the mother's income, but only on the father's income.
It is not entirely clear why he is being deprived of this money?
It is possible, of course, that there is obviously nothing to take from the child's father, but at least formally alimony needs to be fixed, you never know how it happens in life, all sorts of random inheritance and so on.

[Jünger]

I see you are a sane person that is rare here

[Jünger]

Quote: Ezoterik

The child's father is a git. He lived at her expense, she plowed in.

Who is to blame besides her for choosing such a husband?
Previously, women married at the behest of their parents - bad. Now they were given free rein - do what you want - again bad.
Everything needs to be blamed on someone for their shoals and shortcomings.

[Fan-fan]

I think that if this woman also plowed at five jobs somewhere in Poland or Lithuania, she would have lived more dignifiedly than here. After all, our salaries cannot be compared with European ones.

[Jünger]

So it would have poured into Lithuania and Poland. My niece is also divorced and took and dumped with a child in the USA in 2000. But then she dragged the child when she got a job and she had an education.
Everything is possible for the believer. But it is hard for whiners and dead people around and deputies interfere with their lives.
The laws are not the same, the government is bad, the pearls are shallow.

[DrEng527]

Quote: Junger

Previously, women married at the behest of their parents - bad.

in Russia this was usually not the case - to marry against their will is a rarity ... another thing is that they did not rush with love then, that among the peasants, that the noblewomen - "Noah was given to another and I will be faithful to him forever" ..

[Kronos]

Divorce is the most common occurrence among civilized people. Only savages now see it as something shameful. And you apparently teleported, judging by the concepts of the 19th century, if not earlier.

[Jünger]

Quote: Kronos

Divorce is the most common occurrence among civilized people.

Same-sex marriage is also a trend among civilized people. And euthanasia. You can consider these options - you are not a savage.

[aglet]

"At six in the morning, he runs to clean the snow, so that gentlemen can drive by car"
especially bad in the summer, this snow must be found somewhere, delivered, scattered, and then removed
"Then he runs to work as a cleaner in five! Places,"
and if it is just, in one place, to work on a decent salary, is not an option?
"A woman raising a son alone"
well, and how she brings up her son, if she leaves by 6, and "comes at eight in the evening, and falls to sleep"
"Is this life normal?"
of course not, that's why only a few people live such a life, and those, for the most part, invent their own difficulties, you cannot say otherwise with censorship. and if you want to remove the snow for it, then remove it, and do not say how you want it

[Fan-fan]

And dump the parents as they ask.

We saw a benefactor: he will "dump" his parents when they ask, and if they don't ask, then he won't give a penny. Yes, my tongue will not turn - ask the children for money.

[alekseykabanets]

Quote: IS-80_RVGK2

So why don’t you move?

And there is something to move?

[Varyag71]

Yes, and these patriotic hurray have no conscience

[alekseykabanets]

Quote: Varyag71

Yes, and these patriotic hurray have no conscience

As they say, where there was a conscience "one thing" has grown.

[Svarog]

Quote: aleksejkabanets

Quote: IS-80_RVGK2

So why don’t you move?

And there is something to move?

This one from the same series ... no one asked to give birth .. eat macaroons ..

[paul3390]

Do you propose to produce slaves for the new masters? Yes, shish you. Something is not noticeable that the people showed enthusiasm in this regard. Reproduce, knowing that your children have no future - thank you ..

And about the almshouse - then the question is, why the hell do I need a state that doesn't care about me? Why then should I pay him for something, and even more so - to protect him? If it is like a chicken - everything is rowing exclusively for yourself? I didn’t put them up there, I didn’t take an oath to them, I don’t have to be loyal. For everything that was good for me was done - my Motherland did. Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. And if I owe someone something, then only him.

[Jünger]

Quote: paul3390

Yes, shish you. Something is not noticeable that people showed enthusiasm in this regard. Reproduce, knowing that your children have no future - thank you ..

You are suicidal. According to such a strategy, Russia would never exist - the people would not multiply, no one would colonize Siberia, Wild Field, the Caucasus, etc. Everyone would have sat on their ass and waited for the tsar and the boyars to plant benefits and subsidies.
Russia would have perished in infancy.
Everything here is within the framework of Darwinian theory - a population that does not want to reproduce disappears. It is replaced by another, more viable one, which does not require chatter about capitalism and the USSR for reproduction.

[Kronos]

But you do not understand that times have changed and you are trying to pull the realities of antiquity onto the present.

[Jünger]

You rub it to Chechens or Tajiks about it. Or the Arabs with the blacks who populate Europe.
Thanks to them, you will soon remember the realities of antiquity. If you did not want to naturally live by them, then you will be forcibly immersed in them.

[Hypertension]

Quote: Junger

Everything is within the framework of Darwinian theory - a population that does not want to reproduce

Darwin's theory does not take into account the factor of the "caring" state. If one population of, say, birds is constantly clipped, what kind of vitality and competition can we talk about?

[Jünger]

Quote: Hyperion

Darwin's theory does not take into account the factor of the "caring" state

Everything is taken into account there. You can take a pitchfork and overthrow the state with like-minded people. And stir up their own - the people's. With workdays and barracks.
But you don't have a sweetheart, so you will endure and adapt. If you don't adapt, you will disappear. All in theory.

[Hypertension]

Quote: Junger

You can take a pitchfork and overthrow the state with like-minded people.

Not so simple. A digital concentration camp is on its way. The revolution will be strangled in the bud. It was possible to turn the pitchfork theme a hundred years ago.

Quote: Junger

But you don't have a sweetheart, so you will endure and adapt.

Are you already adjusting? Are you learning languages? Chinese for example. A very great help for breeding in the future. Although what am I talking about? You are like a dog's fifth leg to the Chinese - they will be driven into the reservation like the Uighurs - a lot of time will be to comprehend Darwin's theory.

[DrEng527]

Quote: Junger

Everyone would have sat on their ass and waited for the tsar and the boyars to plant benefits and subsidies.

to the point!

[Lannan Shi]

Quote: Junger

Do you want to create an almshouse out of the state?

For 100 re of the accrued salary, the state has 30 re contributions to the funds. Another 13 are withdrawn by way of income. Of the remaining 87 re, 17,5 are withheld through VAT. Plus excise taxes. Which in some cases is much more than half of the cost of the goods. And if you remember all sorts of certificates, forms, etc., and all this is very paid ... Then for every ruble that fell into my wallet, the state has at least the same amount. At my expense. So let's not talk about the almshouses, okay? Our state is more like the office of a usurer, from whom, as once, in childhood, it borrowed from a school, and went into a coffin deep in debt, despite the fact that it paid him 50 times more than it borrowed.

[Jünger]

Quote: Lannan Shi

Our state is more like the office of a usurer, from whom I borrowed once

We have everything more or less, dear. In Germany, 50 percent of the tax is taken from salary. And they take a tax on the church.
And to see a doctor there you have to make an appointment a month before. And on Sunday, shops are closed. I've been there for work.
If they took us to church, I think you would have burst here at all.
And so, the authorities care about you - they don't annoy you once again.

[Lannan Shi]

Quote: Junger

We have everything more or less, dear. In Germany, 50 percent of the tax on salary

not 50, but 45 maximum. And 45 starting at 260.000 euros. And from 1000 euros, with all contributions, which according to our method they count as taxes, but we we don't remember at all, and so, from 1000 euros they have 20%, we have 43. Long live the Russian income, the lowest income tax in the world. When in Russia a beggar who receives a minimum wage pays as much as 2 percent less than a German billionaire.
And despite the fact that in terms of taxation, Russian homeless people are equated with German billionaires, the social expenses of the German budget are under 2/3, and the Russian budget is 1/4. Long live Russia, the most social state in the world, which is already enshrined in the Constitution.

Quote: Junger

And they take a tax on the church.

Do not want? Don't pay. Declare yourself an atheist and no problem. But the churches there do not pull land for free, as we do, do not squeeze out state property, etc.

Quote: Junger

And to see a doctor there you have to make an appointment a month before.

The village of Kamenka. District Dmitrovsky. Friday before the amendment vote. Approximately 8.35-8.40 am. Shop Magnet. A man walked to a stop, Fell right at the threshold of that very magnet. The cleaning lady saw, came up, did not seem to breathe. Alarm-alarm. And the ambulance and the police. In an ambulance on the topic - maybe he hasn't died yet? To the police - it looks like he died, look, if yes, the body should be taken away. Summer ... Heat ... By one o'clock they covered with garbage bags so that the flies crawled less. Although the smell went, yes, the bags did not save much. The police arrived closer to five ... The ambulance, in principle, did not deign to appear. Not a deaf taiga. To the Kremlin, if in a straight line, probably 45-50 kilometers. To a busy highway ... 7-10 meters. What about making appointments with German doctors? Do not remind?

Quote: Junger

And so, the authorities care about you - they don't annoy you once again.

Ugums. The average salary in Germany is 7 times higher than the average in Russia. That's when our government will set itself all payments from the state in the amount of 3 million per year (also 1/7 of the salary of German ministers), and not 2-4 per month, as now, when the number of their residences will be 7 times less than in Germany, and not 3 times more like now, when it switches to cars 7 times more modest than the German ones, then I will believe that it cares about us, and not about itself.

[Jünger]

You have caught up a lot of mud here. What can I say - you have a wrong attitude in life, perhaps problems with upbringing.
He who is looking for problems has them and they have it.
Everything is fine with me and I didn’t give a damn about welfare states, pensions and Germany from the high bell tower. You have high needs and expectations - slow down. For you are not the Princess of Wales.

[DrEng527]

Quote: Junger

He who is looking for problems has them and they have it.

in general, to the point ...

[Fan-fan]

Comrade Negro, we somehow do not believe that everything is fine with you. Or are you an official or a businessman? But not everyone should be officials and businessmen, someone should bake bread, teach children and heal the people, in a word, someone should work with his hands.

[Lannan Shi]

Quote: Junger

you have a wrong attitude in life, possibly problems with upbringing.

I don't have problems with upbringing. Problems with education of our "elites". To remind how someone, with pathos, told how much the street gave him, and then reasoned like a typical um ... let's say, a man with a small-angle outlook on life, from the gateway. But from the problems of education of the authorities, problems arise for the whole country. For such individuals are at the head of the country ... This is a misfortune, and a serious misfortune.

Quote: Junger

Everything is fine with me and I didn’t give a damn about social states from the high bell tower

My dear, they would immediately say that you do not care about anyone and everything. There is Russia, there is none, there are Russians, or what negroes around you, the main thing is to stuff the belly into the lulu.
Sorry, this concludes my communication with you. For your type, to me personally, is disgusting to nausea.

[Jünger]

Why are you keeping so much junk information in your head? You have to give birth to bigger children and cook borscht. Instead, you get into men's conversations and problems.
There is a proverb - Don't get into your sleigh
Obviously, you have problems with upbringing - a woman should know her place. Well, if he does not want to know, then a harsh life will put her there by force. But already with tears and snot.

[Lannan Shi]

Quote: Junger

Why are you keeping so much junk information in your head? You have to give birth to bigger children and cook borscht.

I didn't want to communicate with such people, but I will answer. For those who have in their head not information, but a vacuum.
The median salary in the Russian Federation is just over thirty. Total 60 kopecks per family. If there are no children in the family, you can live with norms. If 1 child is already poverty. If there are two, it is poverty. If three - death by starvation. Total half of the population of Russia stupidly cannot give birth more than 1 time. And if we recall the unemployment rate of 5 million official, and at least twice the real one, then those who cannot have more than 1 child are at least 2/3 of families. And in the best case scenario, the country is stupidly doomed to a fairly rapid extinction. At a slightly worse rate, if we still manage to drive the thought into the heads of a certain number of people, we must give birth, and we will somehow feed it, albeit with pasta alone, and you can even walk in rags ... In this situation, everything will be much worse. Extinction will not be so fast, but a mass of physically and mentally disabled people will appear. Which will call into question the existence of Russians in general, even in the form of a small nation like Albanians or some Latvians.

Quote: Junger

Obviously, you have problems with upbringing - a woman should know her place.

When people like you, with lifted conceit and near-zero abilities, manage to build a society in which one person can feed himself, his wife, and three or four children, then women will not bother with politics. In the meantime, we have to plow, and as if not twice against you, we would be silent in a rag. Until this very rag, you have not been crammed, where deeper.

[Jünger]

If three - death by starvation. In total, half of the population of Russia stupidly cannot give birth

In the republics of the North Caucasus, which are part of the Russian Federation, three children are an everyday reality. There are no hunger deaths there. And the term "medial salary" women don't use there.
Therefore, I urge - do not grind nonsense.
My neighbor is a shop manager at a factory, salary in the area of ​​a hundred square meters, has three children. The wife gets a penny. They live very hard, but they have a car and they are building a house. Nobody got stuck out of hunger and did not climb the trash heaps.
Once again, honey - cook borscht and do not carry a blizzard

[aglet]

"In the republics of the North Caucasus, which are part of the Russian Federation, three children are a common reality. There are no hunger deaths there."
Paphnutii, do you know how much tribute the republics of the North Caucasus are pulling from the budget of Russia, without contributing anything there?

[aglet]

"My neighbor is a shop manager at a factory, salary in the area of ​​one hundred square meters, has three children. My wife gets a penny. They live very hard, but they have a car and they are building a house."
And how many locksmiths, or turners, or at least someone, with a salary in the region of thirty, and having children, work in this workshop? and who also want to build a house and a car?

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: Junger

My neighbor is a shop manager at a factory, salary in the area of ​​a hundred square meters, has three children. The wife gets a penny. They live very hard, but they have a car and they are building a house.

Bravo! Do we have solid shop managers? Ask how much his subordinates get. Even if you don't count the wife, they all get twenty. This is me about the boss's family. Quite a middle class, according to Putin. My neighbor, having received a disability, received less than 5 thousand. And they did not take him anywhere, since he was hobbling with a stick at a speed of about a kilometer per hour.
P.S. Is Igor from Moldova?

[Jünger]

Quote: Mordvin 3

Bravo! Do we have solid shop managers?

Quote: aglet

and how many locksmiths, or turners, or at least someone, with a salary in the region of thirty, and having children, work in this workshop

Do you know how much visitors from Central Asia receive? And in what cages do they huddle while you sleep in your warm comfortable apartments with your wives?
Would you like to share?
And blacks in Africa are starving - don't you mind? Are they like you, they will give them a passport and will be like Russians?
Why can't you make a communal apartment out of your houses for the visiting proletariat according to the behests of Ilyich?
I suppose you have dachas too? Sell ​​and support class bros.
The only thing is that you citizens are a lot in other people's pockets to count someone else's. Keep your pocket closed.
Little paws As citizen Lannaan Shi says, in order to live well you have to study well - at school, institute. Do not smoke or drink. Stay a kilometer away from women. Then you will have a decent job and money.
And all these locksmiths and turners of yours at a tender age began to drink strong alcoholic drinks and smoke. I know such "turners".
He worked in his youth on construction sites and in gardening. They started working morning with a glass of first-rate.
What do you want - people have made their choice. There is no second chance in life.

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: Junger

Do you know how much visitors from Central Asia receive?

I know.

Quote: Junger

And in which cells do they huddle

And I know this, because I slept with them in the same trailer.

Quote: Junger

while you sleep in your warm comfortable apartments with your wives?
Would you like to share?

What, what? Wives? No. One prostitute for four, here's your everyday life.

Quote: Junger

I suppose you have dachas too?

I do not have.

Quote: Junger

Stay a kilometer away from women. Then you will have a decent job and money.

No need to say, paphnutii ... One question: Who gave you such a birth then?

[Jünger]

Quote: Mordvin 3

One prostitute for four, here's your everyday life.

So use it further for at least six. You have made your choice.
Normal people don't do that.
This perfectly illustrates what I am setting out - your approximate level of development. And what do you want with him - to receive 500 pieces a month? There are no miracles.

Quote: Mordvin 3

And I know this, because I slept with them in the same trailer.

Yes, and wherever I slept, and with whom and with whom I did not work. But you need to have some kind of understanding in any situation ..

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: Junger

So use it further for at least six. You have made your choice.
Normal people don't do that.

And where did you get the idea, a wonderful creature, that I did this?
And I will repeat my question: What

Quote: Junger

Keep a kilometer away from women

did the woman give birth to you? In life?

[Jünger]

Quote: Mordvin 3

And where did you get the idea, a wonderful creature, that I did this?

Sorry, goluba, I did not know that you were not taken as a share then. Just stood there and watched? Your hard share ...

Quote: Mordvin 3

did the woman give birth to you? In life?

Come on by, uncle. Top-top ... Everything is clear with you.

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: Junger

Just stood there and watched?

Is it that interesting to you? Can't you yourself?

Quote: Junger

Come on by, uncle. Top-top ... Everything is clear with you.

Don't break the crutch.
With you no. The third time the question is: What

Quote: Junger

Keep a kilometer away from women

did the woman give birth to you?

[Mordvin 3]

Blown away, Pafnushka? Don't want to call your mother a woman?

[Jünger]

Didn't understand why you, brother, got to the bottom of my mother? Do you like to smear your parents out of the proletarian habit?
And this also characterizes you properly.
By women, I meant the maramois whom you loved with the four of us Uzbeks.
The harlots of Babylon.

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: Junger

Didn't understand why you, brother, got to the bottom of my mother?

And why do you call your own mother mother, and the others - women?

[Jünger]

And I understood - you decided to cut under the intillichenta and get to the bottom of words.
The same words in different contexts can mean different things. And my mother, like yours, has nothing to do with it.
Happy New Year, brother Roll over there proletarian for me. I do not know what you are pouring into yourself, but good luck even though you are a Mordvin.

[aglet]

"Yes, and I have spent the night wherever and with whom and with whom I have not worked. But you need to have some kind of understanding in any situation .."
"This perfectly illustrates what I'm talking about - your approximate level of development."
do not you think that judging someone's level in public, without having any data about this level, is simply ridiculous, and is called simply ... verbiage? although, what am I, a person who works in gardening in his youth, cannot know such passages. the more that it was recently, and left an indelible impression, judging by your inscriptions.

[aglet]

"No words, paphnutiy ... One question: Who gave you such a birth then?"
but this question does not bother me - everything is clear according to Freud - a drinking father, an uneducated mother, childhood in poverty and envy, well, then. another question - when was he born? judging by the general background of his statements, this happened not very long ago

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: aglet

but this question does not bother me

Let him think about this question himself.

[Lannan Shi]

Quote: Junger

In the republics of the North Caucasus, which are part of the Russian Federation, three children are an everyday reality.

Firstly, not 3, but 2,3 on average. And everyday reality, in fact, turns out to be not such a frequent occurrence. Lying is bad. Haven't you heard that? Well, yes, I understand, they have not. Secondly, not in all republics, but only in two, the most prolific, Chechnya and Ingushetia. In Dagestan, for example, things are much worse. Third, to understand the impact of finance even there. In Chechnya, in rural areas, where incomes are noticeably lower, there are, on average, a quarter fewer children than in cities. Although traditionally, all over the world, there are noticeably more children in rural families than in urban ones. But the income gap in Chechnya, between city and village, is so great that this difference completely kills the laws of the universe. And it directly confirms that religions, traditions and everything else are complete garbage, against the background of the fact that the children of the grubby want. Fourth, the financial position of Chechnya is somewhat different from the official figures. By virtue of um .... So to speak, the frivolous attitude of this nation to the criminal, civil, tax and other codes of the Russian Federation. Fifth and last, even the prohibitively patriotic department of the Rosstatat for the Chechen Republic records a decline in the birth rate there as well. And predicts its further acceleration. And as I repeat for the third year already, the most pessimistic forecasts of Rosstat, in fact, turn out to be exuberant optimism, not confirmed by life. And in 15 years the temperature in Chechnya will not differ much from the average in the hospital.

Quote: Junger

My neighbor is a shop manager at a factory, salary in the area of ​​a hundred square meters, has three children. The wife gets a penny. They live very hard

Laponka. You should, uh ... screw up waste, but not with a spoon, but with a ladle. To feel life. With under 25 thousand on the nose live very hard... This family does not live hard. By the standards of about half of the country, they don't even live well, they are full of chocolate and sprinkled with marmalade. For those who are in the tank I will repeat. The median salary for the country, if for 2 workers, is approximately 62-63.000. However, if we consider that 10% of Russians are unemployed and do not receive anything at all, then the income of an absolutely average family is somewhere around 57 thousand. But the average family composition is 3,25 people. Two adults and one and a quarter children. In families with 1 child, there are 19 thousand per nose, which is a quarter less. than your "very hard living" friends. But in every fourth family with two children, there are 14.700 for each. To compare your "very hard living" with such, they need to have three more children. So damn it comes? Vashti "hard-living", against the background of half of the Russians - blithely burning their life majors pancake. And since the simplest axiom will never reach the likes of you that undernourishment, and really undernourished, and not in words, for the sake of a second child, no one is going ... Then Russia is doomed to extinction. Don't want to pay Russians normally? Well, get ready for the fact that your children will have to import Arabs in order to fill jobs, but your grandchildren, the children of those same Arabs, will cut their heads. And South Africa, where whites are hiding in reservations, will seem like heaven on earth to your grandchildren. However, what do you care. People like you live by the principle - after me, even a flood. And that a grandson or granddaughter will be killed a little, so not you, why worry then. True?

[Svarog]

Laponka. Would you uh ... screw up waste, but not with a spoon, but with a ladle

Dear Lannan Shi I'm afraid that such characters are unlikely, that something can be explained .. the reality is different, but to cover the problems on a national scale .. they don't have enough flash drives .. But actually I'm not talking about them ..
Happy New Year to you. Good health to you and your family ..
With great pleasure I read your comments, continue to please us next year.
Not many people like this kind of music .. but I'm delighted with Kipelov with a symphony orchestra))

[Lannan Shi]

Quote: Svarog

Dear Lannan Shi I'm afraid that it is unlikely that such characters can be explained ..

Free day, from everything and everyone, the first in the last 2 months. Why not juggle with numbers? I like this And maybe he will be able to make someone doubt. Then it was not in vain that Klava tortured her.

Quote: Svarog

Happy New Year to you.

Frankly, I don't know how to congratulate, I just torture myself out of myself, therefore, just ... Mutually, And more of the best.
PS
And the symforoks are good for the mood. There is a flash drive with a similar one in the car. At least fall asleep while driving, but under it .... Problematic.

[IS-80_RVGK2]

Do not strain you so. This is a dumb programmer with a fucking hsv. It is impossible to prove anything to him.

[Jünger]

Laponka, when I was a student I usually dined with half a loaf of black bread with empty pasta for dinner and not every day yet, without breakfast. 5 years. And that's okay. It's great when there is a crust of bread.
While all these turners and locksmiths, who are crying here now, were drinking at work, eating sausages and beating the women walking.
Don't tell me about 25 thousand. You can live alone on this. I can easily live for less. And I'm purple on medial and integral salaries in the country. Those who want to earn money will kick up their ass and go to where they pay well. At least to Norilsk.
But the thing is, honey, that most of these whiners come in the evening from shitty work, open a bottle of booze and start crying about a hard life. And they do not want to change anything, because they have a million excuses, and they swelled and smoked their health in their youth. And their whole dream was that it was like under the Council of Deputies, when they were drinking right at work with a guaranteed salary and they could not be fired.
Here is such a fucking medial situation in the country, little paw

[Lannan Shi]

Quote: Junger

Laponka, when I was a student

Please do not lie. Are you and a student? Incompatible. Unless, of course, they kicked out after the first session, or did not study for a very humanitarian humanities. Like a canvas painter with his nose. In all other cases, you would have been instilled at least the rudiments of the ability to analyze, and you would certainly have knocked out the habit of calling information garbage. So ... I treat your student statements and other things like the sound of a drop. It sounds and sounds. But the semantic load is zero.

Quote: Junger

I usually dined with half a loaf of black bread with empty pasta for dinner and not every day yet, without breakfast.

Charity. In the form of an educational program. For particularly illiterate. By organizing this kind of diet for your child, you have a 101% chance of getting rickets. Plus anemic. Plus dystrophy. However, the latter can be corrected. But with neuralgia, it is already more difficult. A lot of things can cut through, up to rigidity and kvash. Both separately and in a bouquet. The stomach will definitely be killed. And what definitely cannot be fixed is mental retardation. Which your child will get very likely. In general, in what maydanek, in the role of a children's nutritionist, you would be quite in place.
This is where I really end. For finding out whether you are drowning here for money, or have really suffered from their own diets, I do not see the slightest point. Neither the first option, nor the second, do not promise gaps.

[Jünger]

And you, my dear, are not a relative of Latynina Yulia, what is driving a blizzard along the echo of Moscow? I listened to it a couple of times - very similar to your conversation. A bunch of vague information, abstruse terms like about rigidity and medial salary, etc.
It sounds very interesting and enticing.
She seems to say something, but it would be better if she didn't say it ..

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: Junger

It sounds very interesting and enticing.
She seems to say something, but it would be better if she didn't say it ..

Looks like you.

[Jünger]

Quote: mordvin xnumx

Quote: Junger

It sounds very interesting and enticing.
She seems to say something, but it would be better if she didn't say it ..

Looks like you.

Happy New Year, brother

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: Junger

Happy New Year, brother

Deputy Kovalev is your little brother.

[Jünger]

Sergey Adamovich? He’s like a Jew, but foreigners are not my brothers.
They are friends of your proletariat.

[aglet]

"Honey, when I was a student, I usually dined with half a loaf of black bread with empty pasta for dinner and not every day yet, without breakfast."
that, on a scholarship it was not possible to pass the session? and something you have in every comment about women, does not work with them? do not give?
"Most of these whiners come from shitty work in the evening, open a bottle of booze and start crying about a hard life."
Are they all right, do they personally complain to you? sitting at the same table? that is, do you have the same social circle? or at this time you are heroically going to Norilsk, eager to earn a lot of dough and spend it on women with reduced social responsibility, since it is impossible without money?
"And they do not want to change anything, because they have a million excuses, and they swelled and smoked their health in their youth. And their whole dream is that it was like under the Council of Deputies, when they were drinking right at work with a guaranteed salary and they could not be fired."
maybe they can't change anything? those who worked "under the Council of Deputies" are already retired, there are people like you who do not drink, do not smoke, do not love women, but do not seem to earn much money, which is why there is such envy, even to those who are 25 thousand earns, rushing from every word. and, by the way, for drunkenness at work it was very easy to dismiss under the Soviets. I fired myself more than once, I know the procedure. and remember, finally, the word-median, you don't need to know what it means, just remember how it looks

[aglet]

"And to see a doctor there you have to sign up for a month"
in a month, it's not very long, but if there is no doctor of this specialty in the hospital at all, then how? and 50% are taken directly from everyone, or is there still someone with whom they start? and the tax on the church, anyway less than the tax on the president. if you are not aware, the vat, when introduced, was called the presidential tax

[Jünger]

Quote: aglet

"And to see a doctor there you have to sign up for a month"
in a month, this is not very long, but if there is no doctor of this specialty in the hospital at all, then how?

Then pack your things and move to where everything is. This is exactly what normal people have done at all times - and in the USSR too.
And I did that.

[aglet]

"And I did it."
I understand that for people like you, where your ass is warm, there is a homeland. unlike you, I have one homeland

[Jünger]

People did not flee to Siberia and the Don from a good life. According to your method of living - everyone would lay down in the ground at home

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: Junger

People did not flee to Siberia and the Don from a good life.

They ran to where the authorities could not get them.

[DrEng527]

Quote: Lannan Shi

17,5 are withheld by way of VAT. P

the manual is outdated, VAT 20%

[Revival]

Yes, I hope the poor will find methods

[IS-80_RVGK2]

The idea is bad. Which will cause an increase in class divisions and, in general, in fact, if the law is adopted by another nail driven by the patriots into the coffin of the Russian Federation.

[Varyag71]

We must ask the deputies to personally transfer 5 percent from any source of income to the maintenance of officials from people like you.

[Svarog]

Quote: Varyag71

We must ask the deputies to personally transfer 5 percent from any source of income to the maintenance of officials from people like you.

What else ... let them go to work, and part-time deputies ... parasites ...
And about this character ... so maybe he himself is a deputy

[Varyag71]

The deputies should be as before. I walked away from the machine, or I got off the tractor and went to Moscow for the congress. Ended up, back to his workplace, working for the good of the Motherland.

[Svarog]

Quote: Varyag71

The deputies should be as before. I walked away from the machine, or I got off the tractor and went to Moscow for the congress. Ended up, back to his workplace, working for the good of the Motherland.

Definitely ..

[Varyag71]

And now "servants of the people" with an official salary of 400000 rubles, a full social package and guarantees, are deciding how to live for those (with a pension of 10000 rubles, and a salary of 20000 rubles) whom they "serve."

[Svarog]

Quote: Varyag71

And now "servants of the people" with an official salary of 400000 rubles, a full social package and guarantees, decides how to live for those (with a pension of 10000 rubles, yes, salary of 20000 rubles) whom they "serve."

They do not serve, they parasitize ... on the body of citizens.

[Fan-fan]

So the longer I live, the more I hate these parasites. I can't wait for new deputies, government and president to appear. And not just new ones - friends of the old ones, but completely different in spirit and thoughts.
The present "servants of the people" should be tried for all their antics, but there is no one yet.

[Sling cutter]

Quote: Fan-Fan

So the longer I live, the more I hate these parasites.

Comrade, I fully agree with you.

[aglet]

“I can't wait for new deputies, the government and the president to appear. And not just new ones - friends of the old ones, but completely different in spirit and thoughts.
The present "servants of the people" should be judged for all their antics, but there is no one yet. "
new ones will not appear until the light-faced one retires. but you can't judge them, His Serene Highness has already signed a full amnesty for himself, and he will not leave his colleagues

[Jünger]

Quote: Fan-Fan

So the longer I live, the more I hate these parasites. ...

But the longer I live, the more I regret people. After all, they are stupid for the most part ... pride, conceit overcomes people, makes them unhappy. And unhappy means evil.
And all because they do not learn from childhood natural universal concepts and values, sanctified and tested for millennia.
Most of the heads have been stuffed with garbage since childhood. The Soviet government perverted and distorted many.

[aglet]

"And all because they do not learn from childhood natural universal concepts and values, sanctified and tested for millennia."
what kind of values ​​are these, natural and consecrated, share, maybe humanity has wandered in darkness for millions of years, not knowing the values, but here you, in all white, saved humanity? but to be honest, only for words - universal human values, I'm ready to beat anyone's face

[Jünger]

Quote: aglet

what are these values, natural and consecrated,

Have you heard about the 10 commandments? In general, everything is there.

[aglet]

“Have you heard about the 10 commandments?
but just to live according to conscience, not to kill, not to steal, without the prohibition of God, is it weak?

[Jünger]

In this way, non-fulfillment of the commandments directly affects your being.
It’s not me here who’s crying that life is hard, that someone owes me something, that, like, the state with the deputies didn’t give me something. It's you and like-minded buddies here hate laws.
The atheist is weak and infirm, his life is complete bullshit, since he does not understand why he lives and does it wrong.
Yes, I feel weak, because I do not want to live like you.

[aglet]

"It's not me here crying that life is hard"
and I do not cry if you noticed it. moreover, unlike you, I myself decide what to do, and I myself am responsible for my decisions, and it is not an atheist who is weak, but a believer in some kind of god is weak and weak, because he himself does not decide anything in life, but does what his God will allow him, and what will not allow him, does not do. but there is no God, no one decides anything for you - what can you do here, and people like you? ruptured brain, however.
"Yes, I feel weak because I don't want to live like you."
so you signed your own powerlessness - you could not live as ordinary people live, despite the fact that you do not drink, do not smoke, and you despise women, without a pointer and a crutch of God you cannot. hence the envy and hatred of ordinary people who, fortunately, make up the majority of living
"This is how failure to obey the commandments directly affects your being."
why do you give God the right to decide what I am doing right and what is not? and these so-called commandments appeared long before the invention of the first god, and, I repeat, I myself decide what to do and how to live, unlike you. and what do your commandments say about envy?

[Jünger]

And who remembers the servants of the people and the guarantor himself with an unkind word?
Who sheds a tear according to the Council of Deputies? Who doesn't like the natural and organic law of helping children to parents?
This is called crying.
I don't even know what kind of servants they are and I don't want to know.
And the commandments, dear man, are just a warning that if you stick your head in the oven, your head will burn. If you want - sui, Christianity does not prohibit this, all free people.
Do you want to be lecherous? Welcome! But for this you will have to answer with your own health. It’s written so directly.
So what you want - stuff the bumps, put various rubbish in your mouth, but then don't complain about the increased retirement age. You will kill yourself and no one else.

[IS-80_RVGK2]

Don't you wear chains there for an hour? That's why I see you remind me of the inquisitor and even these very different Puritans with this very Protestant ethics. There it is. A programmer with an obsession with religion is, of course, a lethal thermonuclear mixture. Stupidity, self-conceit and religious fanaticism. You will win with this sim!

[Jünger]

Go to the mausoleum, boy, kiss Ilyich on the heel. Perhaps a miracle will happen - the servants of the people will assign you a living allowance, you will calm down.

[IS-80_RVGK2]

Again you said nonsense. Are you sure a programmer? Is it really that bad with them now. I wish you to grow wiser in the new year. Maybe then you will understand something of the commandments. In the meantime, you are the case when it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle.

[Jünger]

You understand correctly, brother. For I am poor, wretched, stupid and humble ...
It is good that among the laborers in our country there are such clever people as you. The main thing is that your wife does not offend you as before. Because it can cripple your masculine self-awareness, if of course there is still such a thing.

[IS-80_RVGK2]

Quote: Junger

For I am poor, wretched, stupid and humble ...

And lying. For you contradict yourself.

[Jünger]

Don't be sad, man. I was also a loader and a handyman and went out to people And you can. The main thing is to pour everything booze to the pigs, along with Marxism, socialism and capitalism.
Sinka is evil and it is especially important for a communist to remember))

[aglet]

"A programmer with an obsession with religion is of course a lethal thermonuclear mixture"
What kind of programmer is he if he graduated from some kind of Soviet course in 1982? in those years, programmers were not taught, especially since "I was also a loader and a handyman and became a man" that is, I did not work in my specialty, and I lost a lot of time working just for a piece of bread
What kind of people, if possible, answer - do you work at Microsoft, or do you work in landscaping?

[IS-80_RVGK2]

If you just wait, you will die sooner of old age.

[DrEng527]

Quote: Varyag71

Ended up, back to his workplace, working for the good of the Motherland.

if it's not a secret - did you communicate with these servants personally? I, yes! They were a screen for the party bureaucracy for quite banal material privileges At the same time, it was a rolling ball in the stores ...

[Alf]

Quote: DrEng527

At the same time, it was a rolling ball in the stores ...

But now all the shops are full of goods. Here is just one "little" problem - whether they are imported or their owners are there ...

[DrEng527]

Quote: Alf

they are imported or their owners are there.

about imported ones, your training manual is outdated, it was the USSR that bought up to 30% of food, and the Russian Federation, on the contrary, is already selling as for the owners, does it make a difference to you?

[Alf]

Quote: DrEng527

as for the owners, then you have a difference

Where do the profit and interest on investments go?

Quote: DrEng527

RF, on the contrary, is already selling

That is why grain of the highest and first grades leaves FROM, and we eat grades 3, 4, 5, i.e. herb and chemistry in the form of improvers, baking powder, etc. But you, apparently, do not care what is.

[DrEng527]

Quote: Alf

Where do the profit and interest on investments go?

I don’t care, I also didn’t know what kind of workers in the USSR were building factories all over the world and supplying weapons ...

Quote: Alf

That is why grain of the highest and first grades leaves FROM,

wheat is characterized not by varieties, but by classes ... Grades 1 and 2 are not used in baking - you are illiterate ...

Quote: Alf

and we eat 3, 4, 5 grades

that's exactly what is normal! I will note that in the USSR it was worse with this ...

Quote: Alf

But you, apparently, do not care what is.

by no means, I'm just more educated and I know what you do not know and so you are doing a banal sketch - I hope at least for the money?

[aglet]

"At the same time, it was a rolling ball in the stores ..."
Lord, as already got these unfounded statements of people who, with the union, at best, went to kindergarten. Well, think for yourself, if in stores it was always a ball rolling, how did people survive? Yes, there was a period when the assortment of goods fell sharply, this is exactly the time when the hump, at the behest of the amers, started perestroika, and, in order to increase tension in society, began to create a deficit in everything. which he successfully achieved, with the help of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union and the All-Union Central Administrative Commission, the KGB and all Soviet institutions

[DrEng527]

Quote: aglet

Lord, how have we got these unfounded statements of people,

I was 1991 in 31 - so I don't know the situation badly ...

Quote: aglet

Well, think for yourself, if the stores were always rolling in a ball, how did people survive?

it is commonplace - in Sverdlovsk there were coupons for butter (400g) and sausage (800g), I got them from 1985, when I moved there ... and they bought meat in the markets, sausage in a cooperative store, planted potatoes ... they fermented cabbage for the winter ...

[aglet]

"I was 1991 in 31"
and straight birch bark all this time ate, and, and even hedgehogs?
"they bought meat in the markets, sausage in a cooperative store, planted potatoes ... they fermented cabbage for the winter ..."
now, is all this given to you for free, upon presentation of an EP membership card, or is it all for money?

[DrEng527]

Quote: aglet

now, is all this given to you for free, upon presentation of an EP membership card, or is it all for money?

1) I am not a member of the EP
2) Now just for money, but in the USSR not just for money ...

Quote: aglet

and straight birch bark all this time ate, and, and even hedgehogs?

decided to play the fool - your right ...

[aglet]

"2) Now just for money, but in the USSR it is not just for money .."
"bought meat in the markets, sausage in a cooperative store"
And why did you buy them, if not just money? I, at that time, bought simply, for money, like everyone else, but, apparently, except for you

[DrEng527]

Quote: aglet

And why did you buy them, if not just money?

there the prices were different!

[aglet]

"the prices were different there!"
but all the same, just for the money? did they require any additional services from you?

[DrEng527]

Quote: aglet

but all the same, just for the money? did they require any additional services from you?

Have you turned on the Durka? The prices in the markets were 2 or more times higher than in stores for the same product! Now you can buy delicacies for such prices ...

[aglet]

"Now you can buy delicacies for such prices ..."
so these were the delicacies. especially when compared with the current chemistry, which is now passed off as delicacies. just right, check with a dosimeter

[DrEng527]

Quote: aglet

... especially when compared with current chemistry,

you, as always, are illiterate in this food testing in the USSR began during perestroika - and the nitrate problem immediately got out, drunken collective farmers and stupid agronomists poured fertilizer without measure ..

Quote: aglet

the current chemistry, which is now passed off as delicacies. just right, check with a dosimeter

agricultural is a diagnosis - chemistry is not checked by a dosimeter ...

[aglet]

"You, as always, are illiterate and in this request the food check in the USSR began during perestroika - and the nitrate problem immediately got out, drunken collective farmers and stupid agronomists poured fertilizers without measure .."
a lot of things started during perestroika. stupid nuclear scientists (and possibly), drunk dosimetrists (who could not measure the level of radiation, and believed that it was not), and the nuclear power plant blew up. and nitrates, mainly, in you, in Siberia, indulged in, but in Central Asia. everything is growing well with us
"agricultural is a diagnosis - chemistry is not checked by a dosimeter ...."
if you didn't understand, it was irony, if you understand this word

[DrEng527]

Quote: aglet

dosimetrists (who could not measure the level of radiation, and believed that it was not),

how stupid you are, s / x! However, you have never been to a nuclear power plant and you will never be allowed in ... And the ukrofiziks blew up, they are the smartest ...

Quote: aglet

everything is growing well with us

that is why the USSR bought grain with such agricultural workers ... what did you learn in your college if you don’t know banal things about soil fertility ...

Quote: aglet

it was irony

you also need to know how to joke so as not to seem like an idiot ...

[aglet]

"However, you have never been to a nuclear power plant and you will never be allowed in .."
and what should I do there ?, they won't let you into the nuclear power plant, you have never worked there. about dosimetrists who could not determine the division price of the dosimeter and therefore believed that there was no radiation, described in the reports on the accident at the CHPP, but you have not read them
"And the ukrofiziks blew up, they are the smartest ..."
I do not argue, maybe, in fact, they are smart, even smarter than the graduates of the TPI, but the chaes was not blown up by them - mphti, mei, some kind of Central Asian educational program, this was also in the reports, and in general, "ukrofiziki" then, in nature existed?
"That is why the USSR bought grain with such agricultural workers .."
not tired of repeating fairy tales? but, however, you do not know the other, blindly believe the zomboy.
"what did you learn in your college if you don't know banal things about soil fertility .."
I say again, you probably have difficulty understanding words (is this always the case, or only on holidays?) that I studied at the institute, no worse than yours, I am not an agronomist, but I taught soil science, and I have an idea of ​​soil fertility, unlike you.
"You also need to be able to joke so as not to seem like an idiot .."
since you don’t understand even the simplest jokes, I see that you rightfully bear this title.

[DrEng527]

Quote: aglet

, you never worked there.

you are poor at reading and understanding text

Quote: aglet

and in general, "ukrofiziki" then, existed in nature?

it looks like you haven't traveled outside your area ...

Quote: aglet

not tired of repeating fairy tales?

which ones? that the USSR bought up to 45 million tons of grain? Do you deny?

Quote: aglet

) that I studied at the institute, no worse than yours,

to compare your agricultural technical school with one of the best universities in Russia? What is the place of your technical school in the ratings?

Quote: aglet

because, even the simplest jokes you do not understand

if a joke needs to be explained, go to the Estonians ...

[aglet]

"If a joke needs to be explained, then you should go to the Estonians ..."
so you are also Estonian?
"to compare your agricultural technical school with one of the best universities in Russia?"
it's not even funny anymore, you have megalomania mixed with an obsession. consult a psychiatrist, maybe it will help
"Who are these? That the USSR bought up to 45 million tons of grain? Do you deny it?"
https://aif.ru/archive/1658638. почитайте, может поймёте что, хотя вряд ли, дозиметристы там половины слов не знают. ну попросите кого нибудь, чтобы вам простым языком пересказали.
"it looks like you haven't traveled outside your area ..."
and how is this connected with "ukrofizikami"?
"you are not good at reading and understanding text"
I perfectly read and understand what I read. but since not a single nuclear power plant has exploded so far, it means that you were not allowed there and are not allowed, even by a dosimetrist

[DrEng527]

Quote: aglet

so you are also Estonian?

Quote: DrEng527

you are poor at reading and understanding text

I understand that s \ x, but there is a line ...

Quote: aglet

consult a psychiatrist,

so are you a doctor? make diagnoses on the Internet?

Quote: aglet

https://aif.ru/archive/1658638

So you read this verbal trash for idiots?

Quote: aglet

it means you were not allowed in and are not allowed in,

flooded with inferiority complexes?

[Alf]

Quote: Varyag71

The deputies should be as before. I walked away from the machine, or I got off the tractor and went to Moscow for the congress. Ended up, back to his workplace, working for the good of the Motherland.

It was in the "damned scoop"

[DrEng527]

Quote: Alf

In the "damned scoop" it was

do you think that the weaver or the sportswomen influenced something?

[aglet]

"We need to ask the deputies to personally transfer 5 percent from any sources of income to the maintenance of officials from people like you."
and no need to ask, they will soon introduce themselves. only from all

[Svarog]

Quote: Junger

In general, the idea is good for the children of their parents to support.

Children will help, to the best of their ability .. Although where will the children take these forces, if they pay for the mortgage all their lives, studies, etc., with a young specialist's income of 17 tons ..

[Doccor18]

Quote: Junger

In general, it is a good idea that the children of the parents should contain

Quote: El Dorado

Another crazy article!

Opposing opinions.
For me, this is how the author presented the topic very correctly. The law is "abnormal" - I agree. The idea is "crazy", it seems, not so crazy ...
I am sure that the vast majority of our children and parents live in mutual respect and harmonious relationships. But there is a category of citizens (and it is not small) who were spoiled not only by the "housing problem", but also who treat their parents in an absolutely inappropriate manner. How to deal with them?
Of course, I do not support the creation of such bills. All this will only further upset the already difficult relations between generations, will double the work of the judicial system and will not add humanity to all of us. The state, under the plausible pretext of caring for the abandoned elderly, plans to nullify the pension provision of the population.
But at the same time, a similar problem exists, and there is no point in denying it. However, the state, as always, took the easiest path. And for how long, given the current reality, is it going to call itself "socially oriented" ..?

[Svarog]

However, the state, as always, took the easiest path. And for how long, given the current reality, is it going to call itself "socially oriented" ..?

As long as the "guarantor" guarantees the observance of the Constitution.

[Doccor18]

Sarcasm
Only he remains ...

[aglet]

"As long as the" guarantor "guarantees the observance of the Constitution"
when he cannot guarantee it, he will change it, there is experience

[Alf]

Quote: Svarog

As long as the "guarantor" guarantees the observance of the Constitution.

Which he himself changes according to his wish ...

[lelik613]

Typo, "sexually oriented".

[rocket757]

And what should we say, express our attitude towards the "servants of the people" ???
Yes, the same thing, it seems, as to those two goats / L / looking for, from the topic that slipped earlier!

[The leader of the Redskins]

I have already expressed ... True, about myself - although he is a part of the Russian language, he is a forbidden mate ...

[rocket757]

Well, yes, you have to not write a lot, not to pronounce ..... such rules.
However, it is even useful! The "outlet" was blocked, you have to think, develop an idea .... you look, it will develop to a concrete, expressive, something that nothing can hold back!

[Mykhalych]

"The LDPR deputies V.L. Pashin and A.V. Andreichenko submitted a draft"- I-and, rushed-I-I-I. And boots and presidents and all swimming in the ocean to solve problems.

[Pessimist22]

The new nobles, former members of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union or their children, first threw the people away, and now they want to relieve themselves of responsibility.

[tatra]

And who has been imposing these former members of the CPSU, starting with Yeltsin, Putin, Medvedev, into the power of Russia and the Russian people for 30 years, and bragging about how they are with them "and now it is better than under the communists in the USSR"?

[Crowe]

The state relieves itself of part of the burden of supporting citizens who faithfully plowed for this very state.

"The state owes you nothing," is that how it works?
Well, everyone wants to shift it to the citizens. Let's pay pensions to ourselves, then what? Salaries? Children's benefits? Normal children with grandchildren already help their parents. Another delirium from these deputies zazhryvshis.

[edmed]

Quote: Crowe

Let's pay pensions to ourselves, then what? Salaries? Children's allowances?

Everything goes to this, the peasant will take out, 2 generals will feed, provide for himself, he will raise and take care of small and old, what kind of salary is there, the generals need it more!

Quote: Crowe

Another delirium from these deputies snickering.

This is not nonsense, this is a message, you must feed US, and everyone else, WE have nothing to you
don't have to.

[arnulla]

ldpr have always been clowns

[Fan-fan]

Clowns are good: they have been eating on the people's money for thirty years, and even mocking the people.

[Catholic]

they have always been the mouthpiece of power, voicing their crazy ideas

[Svarog]

Quote: arnulla

ldpr have always been clowns

And who are not clowns?

[Runway]

Two miscarriages from the Liberal Democratic Party have sprinkled nonsense. Although these boys splogged (cultivated the barracks-folk term) the idea that N. Nazarbayev voiced in 97 (he put pressure on the Asian mentality, but then everyone understood everything).
Homeland and state are still different concepts.

[Ros 56]

Well, who said that there are no idiots in the LDPR.

[1536]

Where is the logic? If the income tax, which working citizens must pay, is not enough to pay pensions to people who have reached retirement age, then how will employees have enough money to pay pensioners, even relatives? Then it is necessary to reduce the income tax, and the employee will directly deduct money from the salary to relatives. The second option is to increase taxes, and, consequently, the wages of workers, but in the modern economy this will finally stop the increase in labor productivity, which will entail the collapse of the entire economic system and stop the development of the country. Lack of logic in words and actions is always alarming.

[aglet]

"If the income tax, which working citizens must pay, is not enough to pay pensions to people who have reached retirement age,"
pensions are not paid from the income tax, they are paid by the state and the president. pensions are paid from contributions to the pfr, those that did not have time to plunder

[Svarog]

Quote: 1536

the collapse of the entire economic system and will stop the development of the country.

Country development? We have been degrading for 30 years ... moreover, all institutions ..

Lack of logic in words and actions is always alarming.

It's too late to be on your guard ... now you just have to strain ... and then ..

[Million]

The people are silent, so they will continue to rob us ...

[paul3390]

Were there any doubts ??

[Fan-fan]

And take at least the French: they wanted to raise their age from 62 to 64 years. A total of 806 thousand people took to the streets and the French government made significant concessions to opponents of the planned pension reform against the background of mass protests and strikes.
And the Russians were raised for 5 years and not one came out with a protest. And who are we after that?

[aglet]

"And who are we after that?"
How many Frenchmen out of those 806 thousand received real sentences? and how much do we have, for a plastic cup thrown in the direction of the "growing" guardsman? the sun-faced made sure that the protest died without being born. yes, and "there are few real violent, so there are no leaders," all potential leaders were firmly pressed. well, so the authorities are freer

[alstr]

There are a few questions:
1. What to do for those children who have absolutely no relationship with their parents?
Like the last example with the sisters that they nailed.
Paying parents who bullied you is not comme il faut.
Moreover, not every such case is recorded not only by the court, but even by the police.

2. What if both the parent and the child are retired? Who should support whom?

And there are many more similar questions.

And also a pension is actually a part of the pensioner's earnings, which he paid in the form of taxes earlier. At the same time, in the current situation, the purchase value of the money that he paid in taxes and the money that he receives now is often very different.

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: alstr

And also the pension is actually a part of the pensioner's earnings, which he paid in the form of taxes earlier.

This is a portion of the earnings that the employer has paid to the state in the form of pension tax. The system for calculating pensions and salaries is made for those in power. It is easy to calculate that the increase in pensions and wages (due to inflation) exponentially increases the gap between the minimum payments and the privileged ones. That is why ordinary pensioners are promised an increase of a thousand annually, but in fact, some get a couple of hundred rubles. And this is considered in the order of things.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: alstr

1. What to do for those children who have absolutely no relationship with their parents?

by law, are required to contain, like it or not
"Family Code of the Russian Federation" dated December 29.12.1995, 223 N 06.02.2020-FZ (as amended on February XNUMX, XNUMX)
SK RF Article 87. Obligations of adult children for the maintenance of parents 1. Able-bodied adult children are obliged to support their disabled parents who need help and take care of them.
2. In the absence of an agreement on the payment of alimony, alimony for disabled parents in need of assistance shall be recovered from able-bodied adult children in court.
3. The amount of alimony collected from each of the children is determined by the court on the basis of the material and marital status of the parents and children and other noteworthy interests of the parties in a fixed amount of money to be paid monthly.
4. When determining the amount of alimony, the court shall have the right to take into account all able-bodied adult children of a given parent, regardless of whether a claim has been presented to all children, to one of them or to several of them.
5. Children may be released from the obligation to support their disabled parents in need of assistance, if the court finds that the parents have evaded their parental duties.
Children are exempted from paying alimony to parents deprived of parental rights.

Quote: alstr

But what if both the parent and the child are retired? Who should support whom?

what questions do you ask, well, the deputy did not think, he did not go there for this

[parusnik]

That's right, put the government's hand in the pocket of the citizens.

... Our state is multi-armed, there are not enough pockets for all its hands ...

[paul3390]

Comrades!
What is this?
I used to eat one mouth, but now they eat
company?

The republic turned out to be the same king, yes
only one hundredth.

Why are you boiling?
We promised and we share equally:
one a donut, the other a donut hole.
This is a democratic republic.

[parusnik]

Yeah, my grandfathers died during the Great Patriotic War, defended not only the Motherland, but also the conquests of the Great October Revolution, and now these conquests are being taken away for 30 years. Those with whom my grandfathers fought during the Great Patriotic War?

[paul3390]

"This uncle is a liberal.
He stole your country,
Fucked up the life of the people
Sold oil, forests and water
Got a big profit:
For myself - yachts. Shish to you.

Vote for the liberal
If it seemed a little. "


"The wealthy bourgeoisie is our implacable enemy, its wealth is based on our poverty, its joy is on our sorrow, It is clear that its conscious representatives will be our sworn enemies."
I.V. Stalin

[parusnik]

During the Second World War, it turns out they fought with the German liberals?

[paul3390]

And what about yak? For fascism is the last stage of liberalism .. Let us remember, for example, old man Wells: "Progressiveists must become liberal fascists and enlightened Nazis." Wells's ideal of this time is "a totalitarian state ruled by a powerful group of benevolent liberal experts."

And here is the statement of Friedrich August von Hayek: “Sometimes a country needs a temporary establishment of dictatorial power in one form or another. As you can imagine, a dictator can rule in a liberal way. Just like a democracy can rule without liberalism at all. Personally, I prefer a liberal dictator to a democratic government that lacks liberalism. "

And one more statement by the already popular modern researcher Ishay Land: "Fascism, despite its words and gestures, did not come to fight liberalism at all, but first of all as its ally, albeit cocky and arrogant, but providing much-needed assistance"



Well - and so on ...

[parusnik]

And those who now take away the conquests are the last of those who attacked our homeland in 1941. Now it is clear why on May 9 they cover the mausoleum with plywood ..

[Ross xnumx]

“Children should pay their parents a pension, not the state”?

And the salaries of the deputies are their voters.

[Alexander X]

Why publish on the pages of VO the statements of a person with foreign citizenship? If the law recently signed by the President is implemented, then Zhirinovsky will leave the glorious ranks of the State Duma deputies ... Dreams, dreams, where is your sweetness. Dreams passed, remained ... (joy / disgusting?) ..
Happy New Year, forum participants! Good to you, love for Russia. And let all Russia's enemies take a break from covid ..
By the way, one of the functions of the state is social protection of citizens. If the state does not protect its citizens, then it is not the state ...
And yet, if the pension is not paid, then contributions to the Pension Fund should not be levied on the earnings of workers ...

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Alexander X

If the law recently signed by the President is implemented, then Zhirinovsky will leave the glorious ranks of deputies

I certainly apologize, but can you prove that Zhirik also has citizenship besides Russian?

[Alexander X]

Of course, I apologize, but can you prove that Zhirik also has citizenship besides Russian?
*****
Evidence is collected and submitted for review by the relevant services. ..
In general, he has Spanish citizenship ...
Let's wait and see how true everything is, but the law works ...

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Alexander X

In general, he has Spanish citizenship ...

sorry again, YOU PERSONALLY saw his passport ?!
if not, then I ask for a link to the source of such information

[Alexander X]

If you ask for a link, it means that you are ready to believe the Internet information. Type in the search engine the words "Zhirinovsky citizenship" and you will just read it. I can't insert the link from my smartphone. Some nonsense comes out when you click "share". By the way, you won't find a scan of Zhirinovsky's foreign passport on the Internet .. Or is that why you asked for a link?

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Alexander X

If you ask for a link, it means that you are ready to believe the Internet information.

understandably, this is called verbiage, I asked for a link to the source, I never wrote that I would believe this source, maybe you read it in speedinfo or a Moscow Komsomol member, or maybe on Yandex Zen

Quote: Alexander X

By the way, you won't find a scan of Zhirinovsky's foreign passport on the Internet ..

hence the moral, do not write what you do not know, otherwise sometime the thread for this and the person will arrive according to the new law

[Alf]

Quote: Alexander X

If the law recently signed by the President is implemented

That's right, that "if" ...

[Varyag71]

Kholui mongrels barked here too. Of course, the initiative of their masters and masters is being discussed. And you need to shout Hurray!

[From Tomsk]

Well, now according to Art. 87 of the RF IC, children are obliged to support disabled parents. What's the news then?
Article 87. Obligations of adult children to support parents

1. Able-bodied adult children are obliged to support and take care of their disabled parents who need help.
2. In the absence of an agreement on the payment of alimony, alimony for disabled parents in need of assistance shall be recovered from able-bodied adult children in court.
3. The amount of alimony collected from each of the children is determined by the court on the basis of the material and marital status of the parents and children and other noteworthy interests of the parties in a fixed amount of money to be paid monthly.
4. When determining the amount of alimony, the court shall have the right to take into account all able-bodied adult children of a given parent, regardless of whether a claim has been presented to all children, to one of them or to several of them.
5. Children may be released from the obligation to support their disabled parents in need of assistance, if the court finds that the parents have evaded their parental duties.
Children are exempted from paying alimony to parents deprived of parental rights.

[Revival]

"Able-bodied adult children are obliged to support and take care of their disabled parents who need help."

Then let's dig into the beginning.
The problem must be solved from the root.

1) disabled parents who need help.

Do your parents have a pension?
Despite having a pension, are they in need?

So!
So the pension from the state is inadequate and obviously does not allow the "state" to live !?
Is the "state" helpless in this matter or does it deliberately act in this way?
Which option does the "state" choose?

If so, then first of all it is necessary to decide the question of who will be imprisoned for such a situation?

It's too early to go to "children" without solving this issue

[nikvic46]

Everyone has become such rationalists, and it takes horror. If a family brings up one child, and this child has a lot of children in the future, then who should help whom? Raising children is not a service. And then everyone began to consider everything for a service. Upbringing, medical assistance, like repairing a TV, but they don't give guarantees. In the age of the Internet, every step of every person is noticeable, both the smart side and the bad.

[sleeve]

Well done. From 15% to 1 with one bill. Even just the language of one ... hmm ... figure.

[parusnik]

Article 39 of the Constitution of the Russian Federation. The latest revision of Article 39 of the Constitution of the Russian Federation states:
1. Everyone shall be guaranteed social security by age, in case of illness, disability, loss of a bread-winner, for raising children and in other cases established by law.
2. State pensions and social benefits are established by law .... ie. decided to revise this article a little? And amendments to it? Constitution as a drawbar?

[Varyag71]

The constitution, like laws, is for ordinary people, and officials live their own way.

[paul3390]

Article 3

1. The bearer of sovereignty and the only source of power in the Russian Federation is its multinational people.

2. The people exercise their power directly, as well as through government bodies and local governments.

3. The highest direct expression of the power of the people is a referendum and free elections.

4. No one can appropriate power in the Russian Federation. The seizure of power or the appropriation of power is prosecuted under federal law.


Who would only perform all this .. Not to see anyone who wants to .. With the Constitution, they frankly wipe their ass, and this does not bother anyone. Capitalism, sir ...

[svp67]

And the "well done" deputies, "quietly" are pushing people to the idea that our "socially oriented" state will very soon "suffer for everything and be responsible for nothing." Well, it is understandable, the money from the state, the "dollar calculus" is getting smaller, and the deputies want to live as before ... all the more so because for villas and yachts abroad you have to pay in foreign currency, so they are looking for someone to take away money...
And so, the scheme is excellent: "Parents are obliged to help children, children are obliged to help parents ...", it remains only to understand where the State belongs in it

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

two questions
1 how to be those who have no children
2 I have been paying pension contributions since the age of 14, WHERE IS THE MONEY, ZIN? !!!!!

[Catholic]

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

I have been paying pension contributions since the age of 14, WHERE IS THE MONEY

Offshore

[Real Pilot]

Quote: paul3390

The state must provide citizens with a dignified old age

In general, old age should be provided for by those who have appropriated for themselves a significant part of the fruits of human labor. That is, the state and the bourgeoisie.

And the state will be able to do this if we remove the bourgeoisie, namely the large "privatizers" of resources!

Let's remember the USSR, where the bulk of the added value in most industries went to the state. And the state paid pensions up to 75% of the salary. It was fair. And the "bourgeois" now pay only average taxes, which is categorically insufficient for normal pensions.
That is, it is necessary to return state property in the main industries, return the state natural rent for oil, gas and minerals.
And keep small business in the service sector, in the production of consumer goods. In fact, the Chinese took our model and modified it correctly. And now they are flourishing.

[DrEng527]

Quote: RealPilot

And the state paid pensions up to 75% of the salary. It was fair.

what nonsense? was a maximum of 120 rubles for most! there could be a regional coefficient on it! And all republican and union ones had more pensions ...

[aglet]

"what nonsense? was a maximum of 120 rubles for the majority!"
on 120 rubles in the union it was possible to live perfectly, with the then prices and benefits. for 12 re today, you can only survive

[DrEng527]

Quote: aglet

120 rb in the union could live well, with the then prices and benefits

this is usually written by those who did not live in the USSR in adulthood I did not receive 120, I started with 140, but there was not enough money - the shops are empty, the markets are expensive ...

[aglet]

"Usually people who did not live in the USSR write like this in adulthood, I did not receive request 120, I started with 140, but there was not enough money - the shops are empty, the markets are expensive ..."
I started working in 1972. and you?

[DrEng527]

Quote: aglet

and you?

are we on you?

Quote: aglet

I started working in 1972. and you?

what is meant by this? I graduated from university in February 1983

[aglet]

"I graduated from college in February 1983"
and I am in April 1978

[DrEng527]

Quote: aglet

and I am in April 1978

your date is funny ... in February the Physicotechnical Institute defended itself, the rest in May-June ...
about knowledge of the realities of the USSR is still booming to change?

[aglet]

"Is there still a boom in changing about knowledge of the realities of the USSR?"
SSHI, April 28, more questions will be, are you our realistic?

[DrEng527]

Quote: aglet

SSHI,

and agricultural ...

Quote: aglet

more questions will be realistic

no, there are no questions to the graduate of agricultural institutes

Quote: aglet

are you our

poke your wife

[aglet]

"no, there are no questions to the graduate of agricultural institutes"
and what did you finish? just? Academy of Foreign Raevedka? higher presidential courses? or, all the same, simply - the sports faculty of the zadryupinsky peda?

and what should I do with my wife, I'll figure it out without your prompts

[DrEng527]

Quote: aglet

and what did you finish?

1) above, I already blamed you for your poking - you are badly brought up
2) I graduated from the Faculty of Physics and Technology of TPI, you did not have to go there - so realize your insignificance

[aglet]

"Faculty of Physics and Technology TPI"
a, this is Tomsk Polytechnic. Well, this is the same bursa, you are right, I would not have entered, because I would not have entered. didn't you work in Chernobyl? or do you have another specialty?

[DrEng527]

Quote: aglet

a, this is Tomsk Polytechnic. well, this is another bursa,

agricultural is a diagnosis of stupidity and illiteracy! TPI is the oldest technical university beyond the Volga! Founded during the reign of the king. In fact, all technical education beyond the Urals came from it. In modern ratings, my university is the best of the provincial in Russia and many in the capital, always in the top 10 in Russia! And your agricultural analogue of a technical school is not included in the ratings!
according to Forbes we are in 7th place:
https://www.forbes.ru/obshchestvo/403369-universitety-dlya-budushchey-elity-100-luchshih-rossiyskih-vuzov-po-versii-forbes
find your college ...
and here the 7th ...
https://vuzoteka.ru/%D0%B2%D1%83%D0%B7%D1%8B
here at 9m
https://www.ucheba.ru/for-abiturients/vuz/rankings

Quote: aglet

didn't you work in Chernobyl?

internship took place at the BNPP and NVNPP, and at the ChNPP there were practically no normal physical engineering specialists - they recruited graduates from Ukraine, they inherited ...

Quote: aglet

or do you have another specialty?

dosimetry and diploma protection, but for agriculture it is difficult ...

[aglet]

"dosimetry and protection according to the diploma, but for agriculture it is difficult .."
Imagine, not a bit difficult. this is called conversational education. They taught me to use a dosimeter in our agricultural training center in three days, and in the army to put it on and apply to the terrain in a week. so, not everything is as difficult as you think. and how your statements about your bursa under the king, and now, look incorrect. remember what happened in the 70s and 80s when you studied there. TPI did not shine then, did not shine. one word - wilderness
"agricultural is a diagnosis of stupidity and illiteracy!"
this, just, gives an excellent idea of ​​your intelligence and literacy, and what can you expect from a graduate of a provincial school, who entered a place where there was no competition, and they did not look too much at the average grade of the certificate. do not be ashamed of it, this is youth, it has already passed

[DrEng527]

Quote: aglet

that, not everything is as difficult as you think.

ballpoint everything is simple ...

Quote: aglet

use a dosimeter in our agricultural bursa for three days

and what kind of radiation did you measure?

Quote: aglet

remember what happened in the 70s and 80s when you studied there. TPI did not shine then, did not shine. one word - wilderness

as you were agricultural, you stayed there ... Tomsk is always Siberian Athens, not your Zadrischensk
By the way - I gave you the rating of my university on 3 different scales - about your agricultural technical school, tell me something?

Quote: aglet

and they didn’t look too much at the GPA. do not be ashamed of it, this is youth, it has already passed

you are a strange agricultural, you don't even understand what you all said about yourself - how you entered your dirty agricultural technical school ... and we had a competition for the faculty and the highest in the institute and the city in technology As for the certificate, I had 4,5

[aglet]

"and we had a competition for the faculty and the highest in the institute and the city in engineering. As for the certificate, I had 4,5"
if the competition was the highest at the institute, this does not mean at all that it was actually high. By the way, my certificate was also 4,5. as it coincided.
"what they did to their dirty agricultural college .."
not a technical school, venerable, but an institute, the same as the one you entered. now it is called an academy. there I studied many engineering sciences, about which you, in your "athens" and did not know to know, and even now, and do not know the names. do not judge people by yourself. if you know the types of radiation, it pleases me, at least you have learned something in your bursa. I don't need these types of radiation at all, but I know them too. but do you know, for example, strength materials? or machine parts? or omr? tmm and metal science? but this is only part of those sciences that are studied by a "simple engineer", including agricultural production

[DrEng527]

Quote: aglet

but do you know, for example, strength materials? or machine parts?

I am an engineer and I passed Applied Mechanics, which is called sopromat in non-high schools ... And I went through machine parts, counted beams and made a course project on a gearbox ... but do you know, s / x, what a dif. partial differential equations or integro-dif. equations? You don't have to answer - you don't know such words

Quote: aglet

now it is called an academy

I understand that there will be no place in the rating?

[aglet]

"I am an engineer and I passed Applied Mechanics, which is called strength of materials in non-university universities ..."
Applied mechanics is a light mixture of strength materials, machine parts, tmm, theorem and drafting, which was given to non-engineering people in similar to your "unprecedented universities", so that they could at least somehow navigate the engineering sciences.
"what is a differential" partial differential equation or integro-differential. equations? "
you will not believe it, I know, higher mathematics was taught here too, although to be honest, in work, in contrast to materials of strength (by the way, do you know how it stands?), it was not useful
"I understand that there will be no place in the rating?"
won't, I'm not interested. and you are so fighting for the current rating of the university, which you graduated 40 years ago, as if it gives you something financially. Or have you been promoting this rating by hard work all these 40 years, or do you seem smarter from this? regarding the latter, you can not bother, do not seem

[DrEng527]

Quote: aglet

it is a light mixture of strength materials, machine parts, tmm, theory and drawing, which was given in similar to your "unprecedented universities

when an agricultural graduate talks about the education of high-class engineers, it's always funny ... Have you even studied analytical geometry?

Quote: aglet

don't believe it, I know

you lie, this is not higher mathematics, but special. head mat. physicists ... you are so illiterate ... So in what function do these equations get solutions?

Quote: aglet

sopromat

resistance of materials against the background of diff. partial differential equations is arithmetic ...

Quote: aglet

won't, I'm not interested.

sorry for you ...

Quote: aglet

you are so fighting for the current rating of the university, which you graduated 40 years ago, as if it gives you something financially.

you will not understand this - I am proud of my university and my faculty!
This is the difference - graduates of good universities are always proud of their alma mater!

Quote: aglet

regarding the latter, you can not bother, do not seem

against my background, you are an illiterate agricultural machine operator retired ...

[aglet]

"when an agricultural graduate talks about the education of high-class engineers, it's always funny ..."
Do you consider yourself an engineer, a dosimetrist (so it seems your specialty is called)?
"Have you even studied analytical geometry?"
no, I didn’t study it, we don’t need it, descriptive geometry was enough
"you lie, this is not higher mathematics, but special chapters of mat. physics"
it refers, if you know (although, where did you come from), to mathematics, therefore, is part of higher mathematics, integral and differential calculus, which we were taught, too
maybe I don't argue. but there is more practical sense and benefit from the strength of materials for a mechanical engineer than from "differential equations in partial derivatives" for a dosimetrist
"This is the difference - graduates of good universities are always proud of their alma mater!"
what you finished 40 years ago, to what you are so excitedly proud of now, has nothing to do with the location.
"against my background, you are an illiterate agricultural machine operator retired ..."
I don’t see your special background. maybe it's radiation? so this dosimeter is needed ... and I wonder why you have such hatred for agriculture and its workers? it seems that when you went to the students on the turnip, or on the turnip (I don’t know what your students were using then), in some village you firmly snatched away from the local tractor driver, or shepherd, and the memory of this meeting accompanies you all your life ...

[DrEng527]

Quote: aglet

you consider yourself an engineer,

I am qualified as an engineer-physicist by a diploma ...

Quote: aglet

we don't need it, x

how do you know this?

Quote: aglet

to mathematics,

yes you are making discoveries ...

Quote: aglet

what you finished 40 years ago, to what you are so excitedly proud of now, has nothing to do with the location.

why - my classmates and their students became leaders / teachers there - there is such a concept - continuity of development, but for you it's difficult ...

Quote: aglet

you firmly snatched away from the local tractor driver, or shepherd,

the funny thing is that you write about yourself ...

Quote: aglet

is it radiation?

is it agricultural humor from the machine operator? noticeably

[aglet]

"and what kind of radiation did you measure?"
is there any difference? alpha, if my sclerosis does not change me

[DrEng527]

Quote: aglet

is there any difference? alpha, if my sclerosis does not change me

God, how little you educated ... it never occurs to me to talk about agricultural products, although I have 5 patents for sterilizing agricultural products ...

[aglet]

"God, how little educated you are ..."
and what, alpha radiation is not measured? and you constantly talk about agriculture, although it is clearly seen that you do not understand anything at all in it, despite your "education". I realized that you worked in the food industry, judging by your patents? and many installations that you came up with (or as part of a group of authors?) work (did)? or beyond words, nothing happened?

[DrEng527]

Quote: aglet

and what, alpha radiation is not measured?

measured, but not by the army dosimeters you mentioned ...

Quote: aglet

then you worked in the food industry, judging by your patents?

not really, I'm versatile ...

Quote: aglet

works (worked)? or beyond words, nothing happened?

my product has been accepted for supply by the RF Ministry of Defense ... and the lines work in factories ...

[aglet]

"not really, I am versatile ..."
Do you embroider with a cross?
"and the lines work in factories ..."
on which, can you name?
"and the decision on the explosion was taken? you would be a storyteller, but you cannot write ..."
if they could read the commission's report on the investigation, the memoirs of participants and witnesses, maybe they could understand something. but in general, dosimetrist, I'm tired of you, it's enough to breed a srach here, you are our Athenian, if you have anything to me, write in a personal, I allow

[DrEng527]

Quote: aglet

Do you embroider with a cross?

taught in childhood, haven't tried it for a long time, no time ...

Quote: aglet

on which, can you name?

what for? you won't believe it anyway, but if you really want to find out, write by LAN, I will answer ...

Quote: aglet

if you could read the commission report

and I read and even understand what is written there, in contrast to s \ x ...

Quote: aglet

I'm tired of you, it's enough to breed a srach here, you are our Athenian,

you are badly brought up, from this you poke ...

[aglet]

"they recruited graduates from Ukraine, and they inherited ..."
in fact, the Moscow Physicotechnical Institute was noted there, there were no such establishments in Ukraine, at least they did not work for chas

[DrEng527]

Quote: aglet

at least they didn't work for hours

You are mistaken ...

[aglet]

"you are mistaken ..."
maybe I will not argue, did not go deep. but they did not make the decisions about the explosion of the chaes.

[DrEng527]

Quote: aglet

but the decision to blast chaes n

and the decision on the explosion was made? you should be a storyteller, but you don't know how to write ...

[Alf]

Quote: DrEng527

what nonsense? was a maximum of 120 rubles for most!

And 132 not ho-ho? And remember, if, of course, you know what an ordinary pensioner could afford for these 132 rubles.

[DrEng527]

Quote: Alf

And 132 not ho-ho?

no, the pension limit is 120, the military has 200, the rest is cheating from the district, etc.

[Aleks2000]

And you will not do anything to these moral monsters.
Since the untouchable power, sucked into the big money.

We have to endure all of them ...

[Catholic]

Only patience is not forever ... We harness for a long time, but we go fast ...

[aglet]

"Only patience is not forever ... We harness for a long time, but we go fast ..."
look, I was dreaming, he drives fast. left, brother, there are so many supervisors for you, you never dreamed of

[Alecsandr]

A touchstone has been thrown, how the citizens will react to this, and there, with what the devil is not joking, they can put everything into practice.

[Catholic]

With raising the retirement age, it was about the same ...

[Catholic]

Pay for the love of your parents, citizens!

We will strengthen ... We will not abandon our parents ... But my question is, why then do we need the state for which our parents worked and which refuses to pay them a pension? The deputies are completely crazy

[evgen1221]

The government of the country provides services to power over this territory, for a fee Well, according to their logic, it turns out. And if their services do not suit me, then what? Oh, you can go far with their manners of providing services.

[samarin1969]

The problem of alimentary payments to parents from children is from the school course. But we can expect the annulment of pensions from optimization professionals. In the Russian Federation, the publican Mishustin is a sign. In the Russian Federation, there are no sane savings options. Therefore, any "pension reform" in reality becomes a rejection of constitutional obligations on pensions ... Even in the Turkmen version, which was described by Mr. Skomorokhov.

[ximkim]

Since there are such projects for making changes to the Federal Law, it means that everything is not so good in people.

[Mmm.]

The modern Russian government once again shows its contempt and hatred for people, its Jesuit concerns. Inhalation tax, exhalation tax, breath holding penalty. Social cannibals work tirelessly with forks and knives.

[fif21]

Able-bodied children should educate and support the state, their children and elderly parents? You have to think of this before! I worked all my adult life, paid taxes to the state, brought in income, and it owes me nothing? Do I need such a state? Or does Zhirik want to adopt and adopt Russian citizens who have reached retirement age? I AM FOR!

[agond]

By the way, Emperor Claudius in the 1st century AD adopted a law according to which the owners had to keep their slaves in old age (feed, and even treat) it is not known how the authorities controlled this. , however, it is known that slaves in ancient Rome did not pay taxes and did not serve in the army ...

[aglet]

"it is known that slaves in ancient Rome did not pay taxes and did not serve in the army"
with us - exactly the opposite

[Abrosimov Sergey Olegovich]

Quote: Krasnoyarsk

This is still a bill. Therefore, those who submitted it are moral u-r-o-d-s.
And the Duma will become them when it adopts it in the third reading.
And if the president signs, then I'm afraid to say ...

No, the article is not crazy. Those who came up with this bill, perhaps, are moral, but, I do not quite understand why, they did not "go to the end." Although, perhaps this is only the first swallow.
I'm talking about this
Problem:
- the country is in the deepest economic crisis;
- the country has the deepest demographic crisis;
- budget revenues are falling;
- it is more and more difficult to contain the pension fund and pensioners;
- not a single reform (and there were many of them) gave results acceptable to the authorities.
Output: adopt a law on the liquidation of the pension system in full, replacing the entire pension system with the Federal Law "On the maintenance of children by parents and the liquidation of the pension system." In accordance with this law, children must support their parents, as well as other elderly relatives in full.
Goals to be achieved:
- the state receives savings on the payment of pensions in full, plus the maintenance of the entire staff of the pension fund;
- parents, realizing that one or two children may not be able to feed them (insufficient income, died prematurely, etc.) will urgently engage in childbearing - the more children, the more guarantees for a comfortable old age, the easier it is for children to have this comfortable provide old age. Hence, within several decades, the solution to the demographic problem and the radical rejuvenation of the nation.

Pay attention: some solid pluses and grace !!!
-

[savage1976]

A normal person will not kill another normal person, why do we need articles of the Criminal Code on murder, and even with aggravating ones. Yes Roman? Also, what normal parent would not support their children? Do we have many men who voluntarily support their children after a divorce? Or are the former women demanding alimony from them in court? And then more men and in every possible way are trying to underestimate their income. So can the articles of the family code on the obligation to support children be canceled? What kind of normal parent would leave their children? And also normal people do not break speed, do not drive at red lights and do not press pedestrians at pedestrian crossings, so probably all these articles are superfluous.
In general, another empty nonsense in the article.
PS By the way, Roman, can you tell us how there was an electric converter in the hospital and all the patients froze or half? How did the winter go there, did the hospital survive or .....?

[zenion]

In addition to the fact that children already support their parents, although they need to kick in the tailbone for pumping the country, but this is already over. The LDPR will also allow voting instead of their deceased parents, but only for the LDPR party. Worried about this shipment, dress them up in proper shirts and do with them the same as did the wise men on the diamond planet. I wonder which hospital prompts them "White Hills" or "Kanatchikova dacha"?

[agond]

Quote: aglet

"it is known that slaves in ancient Rome did not pay taxes and did not serve in the army"
with us - exactly the opposite

Yes, it looks like the emperors in ancient Rome were stupid, instead of taxing the slaves on income from work for the master, on childlessness (yes, to stimulate their reproduction) and make them liable for military service, they adopted a law obliging slave owners to take care of them

[ermak124.0]

Tupikov from the State Duma should be sent every six months for a psychiatric examination.

[Alt 22]

The RF is consistently moving away from fulfilling its social obligations.
Capitalism is nothing personal, there is simply no money, but you hold on while THEY come up with new laws to get this money out of you.

[Obliterator]

But I note that not a single normal son (and even more so a daughter) will not go with a contract form to his parents.

Why not? If I understand the essence correctly, this means that some part of the salary will automatically go to my parents' pension, and I will only be against it if the state makes a commensurate reduction in its share of funding. Well, the forms of contracts do not interfere with normal people in any way.

[low]

bitingly written