Military Review

Education in Russia and the USSR: an alternative opinion

262

The topic of education in Russia has become a popular object of speculation.


At the same time, there is a clear trend - most materials have a negative coloration from the series

"How good it was and how bad it became."

Various conspiracy theories, Masonic conspiracies and even the predictions of fortune-tellers gained popularity. At the same time, little attention is paid to a truly competent analysis of what is happening. Let's try to fix this and understand whether Russian education has really gotten worse?

Popular mistake # 1: “there were many engineers, there were many managers”


Very often you can see how

people complain about the dominance of “managers”: they say, before the state trained personnel (with a capital letter), but now - don’t understand who: some incomprehensible managers ”.

The mistake is that cause and effect are reversed. It is assumed that the "bad" system just like that (or as planned by an evil Western politician) stopped training physicists, and began to churn out salesmen.

In reality, the education system does not exist in a vacuum and does not at all determine the real needs of the labor market. On the contrary, it is the labor market that creates demand and dictates conditions.

So what has impacted the labor market so much? Banal automation of all processes.

Let me give you a simple example. Previously, drawings were drawn by hand. This means that for a certain project, conditionally 50 specialists were required. Drawing was a very laborious process. For this reason, it was previously taught in every Soviet school.

Some VO readers may even feel nostalgic now by looking at this memorable tutorial.

Education in Russia and the USSR: an alternative opinion

What is especially noteworthy, children were introduced to drawing, already starting from 7-8 grades.

But progress did not stand still, and modern solutions in the field of automation have greatly simplified the process, the productivity of one specialist has increased many times over. And, consequently, the work of 40 people out of these 50 has become simply unclaimed.

The same thing happened in a huge number of other areas, for example, in the economy. If earlier it was necessary to have 30 people in the accounting department, then today one chief accountant, his deputy, 1C programmer is enough. And a couple of girls who graduated from the institute with a degree in “Accounting and Business Analysis”, but whose real qualifications are much closer to the wording “PC operator”. (They not own accounting. They just know how to interact with the program interface. The algorithm does the rest).

Thus, the decrease in the number of highly qualified specialists is not the merit of the education system. On the contrary, the education system itself is forced to adapt to the changed relationships. While the true reason for this is the total automation of everything and everyone.

Popular mistake number 2: "it is not clear who is being prepared"


In fact, all over the world, professionals in education state one general tendency: the world is changing so rapidly that during the period of study from grades 1 to 11, dozens of professions appear and die.

As a result, no one in the world knows exactly how and what should be taught to those children who will begin their labor activity in 10–20 years.

Let me give you a simple example. A good friend of mine did poorly at school as a child. And everyone said that a very grim future awaited him. Because he could not succeed in anything that formed the basis of the education system then.

But on the other hand, he liked to study at the "artist" and spend time at the computer. As a result, instead of studying at the institute, he mastered 3dMax using a tutorial and left for the USA to work as a 3D artist.

Professionals in this field are paid very good money. But the entire multi-billion dollar industry has grown, in fact, out of the void. Because no country in the world then had an education system that would train a computer artist on a turnkey basis.

Just 20 years ago, no one expected that 3D printing specialists would be in demand. What knowledge and skills should such a specialist have in general?

Now the Internet is publishing a variety of lists of professions that may be in demand in the future.

Among other things:

smart home design,

drone operator,

remote surgery operator,

designer of virtual living environment (VR technology).

Who is a tutor?


The profession of a tutor is remarkable in that it is doubly interesting to us.

Firstly, it should have become No. 5 in the above-mentioned list, although it is in demand today.

And secondly, in the context of the topic under discussion, it is remarkable for its functionality.

According to research by the OECD, in the member countries of this organization, more than 30% of parents are dissatisfied with the quality of secondary education. In the Russian Federation, issues of “grassroots” educational policy are also being discussed. This makes it possible to predict a steady growth in demand for specialists capable of working in the conditions of the rapid co-evolution of the labor market and the education system (methods and forms of education, educational institutions, educational programs and trajectories).

The tutor organizes the development of curricula and educational programs, collection and analysis of data at the level of organizations and households, mediation of conflict situations in the educational process.

For reference. The OECD includes 37 countries, including the United States, Germany, Great Britain, Japan, France, Italy and Israel.

That is, the labor market all over the world is changing so rapidly that the ready-made state education systems simply cannot keep up with the changes.

As a result, specialists are needed who are able to combine together:

- labor market trends,

- interests and abilities of the child,

- offers of various educational systems,

- opportunities for parents.

And based on the analysis of the entire data set, develop individual recommendations for teaching a particular child.

In other words, to create a “good” educational system “on a turnkey basis” in the form in which it existed in the XX century, today it becomes in principle impossible.

Mistake # 3: digital dementia


Another problem that is absolutely groundlessly attributed to the education system is “children get stupid”.

In 2012, Manfred Spitzer's book Digital Dementia was published.


In the Russian version, it was named "Antibrain". This is not the first and not the only work of psychiatrists and neurophysiologists in this direction, but it was this work that attracted the greatest attention to the problem.

I will quote from the annotation to the book:

In Germany, M. Spitzer's book caused a lively discussion. His way of polemizing seems too aggressive. But the author's anxiety and concern for future generations is justified and justified. One cannot but agree with Spitzer that digital QMS is a blessing for those who have an educational base, then they really contribute to the development and acquisition of new knowledge. But they are destructive for children, moreover, the ease of handling digital QMS does not teach to work at all, the emphasis is on pleasure. The destructiveness of such an attitude is already evident!

However, the process affects not only children - by delegating more and more routine and boring functions to digital gadgets, we thereby deprive our brain of training.

This can be compared with the problem of physical inactivity in medicine - it is known that evolutionarily our body has adapted to constant movement. The development of motor transport has led to the fact that we have become much less moving. And now doctors recommend to artificially pick up the rate of physical activity.

Sitting in the office all day, people pay money to go to the fitness center and run on the treadmill. Some 50 years ago, having plowed a day in a field or at a factory, our ancestors would have twisted their fingers at their temples, looking at us today.

It's the same with the brain.

We do not need to remember phone numbers, it seems to us that we know them, but in fact they are not in our memory, but in the memory of our gadgets.

When we get behind the wheel, we trust the navigator to plot the route and tell us when and where to turn or change lanes. But once in a taxi they took only experienced drivers who really knew the city well, remembered it. In other words, the degradation of qualification requirements exists even in such a profession as a taxi driver.

Moreover, all services are developed according to the principle

"The most convenient for a person."

Want to eat right but don't have time? You can go to the site and order sets of ready meals for the week.

Sophisticated algorithms analyze your passions and suggest products that might interest you based on your previous choices: movies, books, things.

This is just a brief retelling of the ideas voiced in this book and other similar works. If anyone is interested, I recommend reading it.

Within the framework of this article, we can conclude: yes, humanity as a whole is getting dumber, but the education system is not the cause of this process. The real reason is the flip side of technical progress.

Another factor is the abundance of information and the acceleration of all processes. For example, in order for a person to be able to discuss a topic before, he needed to read at least one book from cover to cover. Today, if we do not know something, we can open the Internet and, after reading two paragraphs, draw a conclusion. Our brain stops working with large amounts of information and loses the ability to think critically.

Disadvantages of the Soviet education system


Many authors criticize Russian education and use the Soviet education system as an example. Such a one-sided view cannot be called objective. And to complete the picture, it is necessary to recall the following disadvantages of education in the USSR.

At the same time, I will not waste time on its advantages (due to the fact that they are listed regularly and widely known), such as fundamental nature and accessibility.

Complete disregard for entire areas of human activity


Take the automotive industry as an example. After the USSR “ended” and second-hand foreign cars poured into the market, the huge difference between the Soviet models of the car industry and the Western ones became obvious to everyone.

What caused this difference? Well, first of all, the fact that in Western society it was the norm to divide the market into segments: from budget to premium.

And the premium segment implied the presence of qualitatively different solutions: such a car should not just drive, but it should drive softly, quietly, easily controlled and a person should be comfortable in it.

Such a need determined the demand for a designer, a specialist in the audio preparation of a car, etc.

And the designer does not mean the girl who draws wedding pictures. This is a specialist who must have knowledge and skills in several areas at once:

1) have a technical education, since he needs to work in cooperation with engineers;

2) be able to come up with comfortable, ergonomic solutions and visualize them (ergonomics is a separate complex interdisciplinary area of ​​knowledge that takes into account physiology, psychology, cognitology, etc.);

3) understand the materials used in interior decoration.

Here, for example, what the Japanese car industry produced in 1985.


The example of the auto industry is just one of the illustrative demonstrations. The problem itself is much more serious.

Its scope is well illustrated in this video.


It was the lack of specialists in marketing, financial systems other than planned, advertising, etc. that made it simply impossible to develop and implement everything that highly qualified scientists could come up with. And, as a result, society could not get benefits from the implementation of these developments.

Yes, we have to admit the obvious, being the first in space, we just gave up the entire telecommunications market. But the Soviet milkmaid, who milked a goat all her life, had the opportunity to get an education in the evening and learn what a square root is.

Learning from under the stick


Among other things, planning implied the presence of certain standards for the number of workers receiving education. Conventionally, at some factory 10 people were supposed to receive education (evening or part-time) according to the plan. At the same time, no one was particularly worried about the desire and motivation of the person himself. This led to the fact that the time resources of the teaching staff were spent, in fact, on farce, and not on actual teaching.

An illustrative demonstration of this state of affairs is the Soviet film "Big Change", the script of which was written based on the story "Going to the People" by Georgy Sadovnikov. It is also important that Georgy Mikhailovich at one time himself taught in an evening school.

Here is one of the speaking moments of this wonderful film in all respects.


There was also such a negative aspect of planning.

The fact is that in the USSR they tried to ensure universal employment. And therefore, the vocational schools en masse took Losers and C-students who did not enter universities, and also forcibly placed juvenile criminals there. As a result, the average quality of the student body in vocational schools has fallen sharply. In addition, the career prospects of vocational schools were much worse than in the previous era: a huge number of skilled workers were trained during the industrialization of the 1930s and 1960s, the best jobs were taken, and it became more difficult for young people to get to the top. At the same time, the service sector was extremely poorly developed in the USSR, which was associated with serious restrictions on entrepreneurship, and it is the service sector that creates the largest number of jobs in modern developed countries (including places for people without higher or professional education).

We are used to believing that this is an absolute blessing - to help people who have stumbled, to pull them up, even if they do not really want to go there. But it is obvious that in the USSR this process was a little overdone. As a result, a whole segment of important professions collapsed - welders, locksmiths, etc.

Monopolization of education


Among other advantages of the Soviet system, the ability to think critically is often cited.

After such statements, I recall a film based on the story of Boris Vasiliev "Tomorrow was a war." It very well demonstrates the emphases that prevailed in the education system at the time. And what fate was in store for those people who, in the words of one of the heroes, believed that it was important

"To ask a person questions, not to give ready-made answers."

Here is a small excerpt from this work.

- Mom, what is truth?
Mother put down the book, which she was reading carefully, with extracts and bookmarks, put the cigarette in the ashtray, thought, took it out and lit it again.
“I think you phrased the question casually. Please clarify.
- Then tell me: are there any indisputable truths? Truths that do not require proof.
- Of course. If there were no such truths, man would remain a beast. And he needs to know what he lives for.
- So, a person lives in the name of truth?
- We - yes. We, the Soviet people, have discovered the immutable truth that the Party teaches us. So much blood has been shed for her and so many torments are accepted that to argue with her, and even more so to doubt, means betraying those who have died and ... and will still perish. This truth is our strength and our pride. Spark. Did I understand your question correctly?
“Yes, yes, thanks,” Iskra said thoughtfully. - You see, it seems to me that at our school they don't teach to argue.
- There is nothing to argue with friends, but you have to fight with enemies.
- But you have to be able to argue?
- It is necessary to teach the truth itself, and not how to prove it. This is casuistry. A man devoted to our truth will, if need be, defend it with weapons in hand. This is what needs to be taught. And chatter is not our business. We are building a new society, we have no time for chatter. - Mother threw a cigarette butt into the ashtray, looked inquiringly at Iskra. - Why did you ask about this?

Yes, the USSR was very closely involved in education. But there was also a downside - there could not be points of view that would ideologically, socially, conceptually contradict the party's position.

conclusions


It is normal and even natural to be dissatisfied with the education system.

You should always strive for something bigger and better. However, if we want this discontent to be constructive, then it is necessary to clearly understand the real challenges of the time. And all the problems that humanity in general and our country in particular are facing are like total automation.

A direct comparison of the educational systems of the USSR and Russia is divorced from reality and has no practical meaning.

Because today the realities are completely different. The mass study of the same drawing in school will not open up the prospects for children that they had in the 1950s.

And in order to assess the real pros and cons of modern Russian education, it is necessary to use a modern scale that takes into account modern realities.

We will talk about this in the next article.
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  1. svp67
    svp67 30 December 2020 18: 07
    +24
    Before discussing and comparing something, it might be worth remembering the HISTORY
    1. Anachoret
      Anachoret 30 December 2020 18: 36
      +17
      oddly enough, critical thinking actively developed in the union
      but one should not confuse "critical thinking" with destructive dissent. and if the author believes that the opposing lines of the party ideas were suppressed - where did the nestlings of the Yakovlevs' nest and others like them grow from?
      in fact, in each direction there was a whole galaxy of anti-Sovietists who systematically threatened the Union
      1. military_cat
        military_cat 30 December 2020 18: 57
        +1
        Sitting in the office all day, people pay money to go to the fitness center and run on the treadmill. Some 50 years ago, having plowed a day in a field or at a factory, our ancestors would have twisted their fingers at their temples, looking at us today.

        It's the same with the brain.

        The funny thing is that the solution lies exactly in the same place - in digitalization. Research shows that people who play computer games have better cognitive abilities and a reduced risk of dementia over time. Even shooters work this way, and some MMORPGs like Eve Online are thoroughly composed of a huge number of numbers and simultaneously acting factors. And then there are engineering "sandboxes" like the Kerbal Space Program, thanks to which schoolchildren now really know the basics of celestial mechanics quite well. Keeping your brain busy and challenging and fun at the same time has never been easier than it is now.
        1. Stas157
          Stas157 30 December 2020 19: 00
          +32
          IN USSR:
          ... Learning from under the stick

          It was believed to the average level that a person should be pulled up in any case. Which is quite logical given the high Soviet technological order.

          But to get higher, you had to work very hard. Mentally, of course. Nobody kept me here by force. In institutes (except ped and police schools) there was a competition! The selection was based on intelligence and knowledge.

          And now it's the other way around. There are very few places for smart budget places. But for fools for money - as much as you want.
          1. tasha
            tasha 30 December 2020 19: 31
            -1
            In institutes (except ped and police schools) there was a competition! The selection was based on intelligence and knowledge.
            I can't say about the police school, but at the end of the 80s the competition for provincial pedagogical institutes was very high. 15-20 people per place! Especially for the Faculty of History.
            There was a competition at the Tomsk Polytechnic Institute ... There was no competition ...

            For the sake of interest, you can see how many people want to enter TPU now. Especially for specialties related to oil and gas production wink
            1. Sling cutter
              Sling cutter 30 December 2020 19: 53
              +9
              Quote: tasha
              There was a competition at the Tomsk Polytechnic Institute ... There was no competition ...

              In 84-85, the general faculty competition was 20 people per place.
              1. tasha
                tasha 30 December 2020 19: 55
                +1
                Which faculty? Phystech? Whoa! After 3-4 years, they took those who did not enter their neighbors without exams! Himself, while waiting for the results at TIASUR, wandered to TPU. They accepted it as a native :)
                1. Sling cutter
                  Sling cutter 30 December 2020 19: 57
                  +6
                  Quote: tasha
                  Which faculty? Phystech? Whoa! After 3-4 years, they took those who did not enter their neighbors without exams!

                  On heavy-mash!)) Put a pencil into the opa, do on heavy-mash! wassat drinks
                  1. tasha
                    tasha 30 December 2020 20: 00
                    +1
                    No, I had ZFTSh under my belt at MIPT, so the choice was obvious. But it all ended with electronics :) drinks
                    1. Kostya Lavinyukov
                      Kostya Lavinyukov 31 December 2020 01: 44
                      +2
                      Did you study at RT at MIPT? (I'm now taking my first session at MIPT on FACT)
                      1. tasha
                        tasha 31 December 2020 06: 01
                        +1
                        Konstantin, you're done. I wish you success in your studies!
                        ZFTSh is a correspondence school.
                    2. Sling cutter
                      Sling cutter 1 January 2021 19: 36
                      +2
                      Quote: tasha
                      No, I had ZFTSh under my belt at MIPT, so the choice was obvious. But it all ended with electronics :)
                      MIPT has always been a very serious university!
                      And I graduated from PTMiO robotics. drinks
                  2. Maki Avellevich
                    Maki Avellevich 1 January 2021 12: 40
                    +2
                    I still have this book (in the toilet, sorry) to this day. father used it in childhood.
                    I read it at a convenient opportunity.
                    written in clear understandable language, it would be used to teach schoolchildren now.
                    alas.
                    1. Sling cutter
                      Sling cutter 1 January 2021 19: 28
                      +3
                      Quote: Maki Avellevich
                      I still have this book (in the toilet, sorry) to this day. father used it in childhood.
                      I read it at a convenient opportunity.
                      written in clear understandable language, it would be used to teach schoolchildren now.
                      alas.

                      Happy New Year! Awesome book, I gave my youngest one along with an astronomy textbook. good drinks
                      1. Maki Avellevich
                        Maki Avellevich 2 January 2021 09: 22
                        +2
                        Quote: Stroporez
                        Happy New Year! Awesome book, I gave my youngest one along with an astronomy textbook.

                        I also thought to convey, but unfortunately my sons do not read Russian.
                        they taught them to speak, but they did not have enough energy for writing.

                        ps I live in Israel so that no one would think wink
          2. Svarog
            Svarog 30 December 2020 20: 33
            +6
            Quote: Stas157
            And now it's the other way around. There are very few places for smart budget places. But for fools for money - as much as you want.

            good Moreover, now fools are encouraged .. because most of them have money .. and this is the yardstick of today ..
            1. Alexander Vorontsov
              1 January 2021 14: 21
              0
              Quote: Svarog
              Moreover, now fools are encouraged .. because most of them have money .. and this is the yardstick of today ..

              In my graduation from the lyceum, there was only one "thug" son of an official.
              There were 4 more guys from wealthy families, but even there my parents were engineers and scientists.

              And by the way, your "theories" about the promotion of thieves personally tell me that you are more likely to fantasize.

              The fact is that thieves prefer to go to faculties of "prestigious" and simpler ones. Economic. Legal, etc.

              It was a pity to look at our thug boy, the guy was not bad, not arrogant, he was simply born into the family of an official and, let's say, a physicist and mathematician was not his.
              But for some reason they shoved him to us.
              Even in spite of the intelligence of all the students, ridicule was inevitable, his every exit to the blackboard was accompanied by stormy applause, his name was even called a formula that he could remember and apply at the blackboard.

              And after the physics and mathematics of the lyceum, the guy drew conclusions and went on a different path.

              By the way, what do you think, if your dad is an engineer or a scientist, and your friend is NOT an engineer or a scientist, do you think that children are in equal conditions? Have an equal chance of being passionate about science?
              And being passionate do they have equal access to the "teachers"?

              For example, when I graduated from the Lyceum, I entered the MEPhI through the Olympiad. And I am grateful that the father of a classmate, being a serious physicist, worked with us giving very interesting problems.
              And classes with him developed even more than studying at the Lyceum at MEPhI.

              I in no way want to cast a shadow on my friend and his family, but I'm sorry ... what I saw is a huge difference when you have a top-class personal tutor at home 7 days a week who keeps his finger on the pulse your grades since elementary school.

              This difference is even difficult to describe, when on any issue you are guaranteed to be hot on the trail to come up and say - dad, but I got such an option on a stick and I'm not sure that I solved it correctly.

              For some reason, no one in this thread has ever talked about this "little nuance".

              Reading comments is just funny sometimes.
              Everyone loves to talk about the thieves children of the new Russians who covered the stalls in the 90s, who filled the faculties of the TNPh MEPhI, Moscow State University, MIPT, etc. with their offspring.
              After all, it was precisely about the career of mathematician and physicist that Sobchak and Timati, bright representatives of the golden youth, dreamed of.

              But earlier, the entire course in these institutes was completely packed with nuggets and children of milkmaids and tractorists.
              And not at all 60-90% offspring of engineers and physicists.
              1. Svarog
                Svarog 1 January 2021 14: 46
                +7
                Quote: Alexander Vorontsov

                But earlier, the entire course in these institutes was completely packed with nuggets and children of milkmaids and tractorists.

                Alexander .. You have a simple question .. why, in the USSR there were so many scientific discoveries, why were we the first in almost all directions? If, in your opinion, everything is now very well with education .. Do you know Russian Nobel laureates?
                Education, its availability .. directly affects the achievements of the state in the scientific field .. or is it not?
                Where are these achievements?
                1. Alexander Vorontsov
                  1 January 2021 15: 23
                  -3
                  Quote: Svarog
                  Alexander .. A simple question for you ..

                  Vladimir, in my article from the very beginning I made a rather risky attempt - to raise the level of discussion of the issue of education from "pop" to a more serious one.

                  I gave a link to the work of modern scientists in this direction.
                  I have cited statistics from leading European countries.

                  But people do not want to read and delve into. They don't want to take a break, spend a week reading the book I am referring to. In order to enrich your head first of all.


                  What for? They are content with their "kitchen" understanding of the issue. Familiar and simple. They don't need a complicated world.
                  They don't need complicated explanations.

                  They want simple ones. Gref is to blame Putin is to blame.
                  I invited the readers to complicate their picture of the world.
                  And then the choice is theirs.


                  If, in your opinion, everything is very good with education now ..

                  Where did I write that everything is fine?
                  It is normal and even natural to be dissatisfied with the education system.
                  You should always strive for something bigger and better. However, if we want this discontent to be constructive, then it is necessary to clearly understand the real challenges of the time. And all such problems that humanity in general and our country in particular is really facing


                  I just think that the problems are deeper than the presence of Gref or Putin.

                  Education, its availability .. directly affects the achievements of the state in the scientific field .. or is it not?

                  This has long been wrong.
                  For example, many of my acquaintances from MEPhI have gone abroad.
                  Imagine - they studied for free. True, this does not negate their colossal work.
                  And getting an education here - we went to another state and worked for its benefit.

                  They were apparently Losers, right? Who then for some reason made careers in the best educational institutions in the world. We worked at the same Large Hadron Collider.

                  Realizing this, many states create special conditions for highly qualified specialists.

                  Again, there are no easy answers.
                  Everything is 100 times more complex than typical clichés.
                  But the choice is up to the readers themselves.

                  Blame Putin, the Communists, Jews, Freemasons, Reptilians, "Englishwoman" - it is necessary to emphasize.
                  1. Svarog
                    Svarog 1 January 2021 15: 36
                    +6
                    But people do not want to read and delve into. They don't want to take a break, spend a week reading the book I am referring to. In order to enrich your head first of all.

                    Right. People don't want to complicate things. Yes and no, everything is simple .. there is something to compare. You tried to compare, but for some reason, you concluded that it is incomparable ..
                    In fact, everything is easier than it seems ..
                    1.The quality of education has dropped (fact)
                    2) availability has dropped (fact)
                    3. There is no systematic approach and application (fact)
                    4. Few people are interested in problems, there is no system, or rather, whoever survives is a fine fellow .. or will dump abroad ..
                    Blame Putin, the Communists, Jews, Freemasons, Reptilians, "Englishwoman" - it is necessary to emphasize.

                    The fault is the reformers, who, by a strange coincidence, undertake to reform not what really needs it, but what was our advantage .. Think about it .. this is also an obvious fact.
                    And Putin, he is only their manager, who was appointed to fool the brains of the population .. And I must say, he was not bad at it ..
                    And yes .. you got away from answering my question .. but in vain .. it contains the answer to your article.
                    They always complicate things when they want to deceive, but the truth is simple and clear to everyone.
                    1. kalibr
                      kalibr 1 January 2021 17: 01
                      -2
                      Vladimir! I ask you again why everything fell apart if it was affordable, high-quality, free, the most read ... and so on blah blah? Again, the answer will be "made your way and fall apart"?
        2. zenion
          zenion 30 December 2020 19: 40
          +11
          military_cat. A child, a person must be taught and able to think. A simple example was shown on TV. A test tube of some water and a nut floats there. there are some tools and stuff. Students of higher educational institutions came out and could not get a nut. The kids couldn't either. Then they released the monkey, she looked at the nut, looked at the sticks. Then she took water into her mouth and poured water into the test tube. Do not get it and she began to top up the water until she could take the nut. The children did not understand, but the students laughed nervously and blushed. They didn't even think about refilling the water from the bottle. Now this is not taught that you need to turn on the gray cells of the brain. A man is standing under a tree, shaking it so that the fruit falls, but nothing falls. Already tired and sat down to rest. Then the monkey came shocked does not fall. I thought, grabbed the stone and threw it. The fruit fell, she ate and left. Man, what the hell am I sitting here, I need to shake.
          1. Akuzenka
            Akuzenka 31 December 2020 00: 20
            +8
            Colleague! I would give you 100 plus points. I have the last 10 years, my favorite saying is that there are much more idiots than you think. The monkey imitates very well. Many of them know how to talk with quotes from videos. But they are incapable of comprehending anything. Moreover, capitalism very well exploits animal instincts. Good luck to the author of the opus. I hope evolution will not rest on his children.
          2. Zoldat_A
            Zoldat_A 31 December 2020 16: 39
            +2
            Quote: zenion
            A child, a person must be taught and able to think. A simple example was shown on TV. A test tube of some water and a nut floats there. there are some tools and stuff. Students of higher educational institutions came out and could not get a nut. The children couldn't either. Then they released the monkey, she looked at the nut, looked at the sticks. Then she took water into her mouth and poured water into the test tube. Do not get it and she began to add water to the level until she was able to take the nut. The children did not understand, but the students laughed nervously and blushed. They didn't even think about refilling the water from the bottle. Now this is not taught to turn on the gray cells of the brain.
            One smart our teacher of microcircuitry 30 years ago said that what we learn and pass in exams can be forgotten 3 minutes after passing the exam. That in production this knowledge is useless from the word "absolutely". What knowledge does not give us - we are taught where and how to obtain the necessary information. Roughly speaking - so that we know which directory to look at and what to look for.

            Unfortunately, not all of us were like this, and therefore, until now, I do not know why, I remember the construction of diagrams by Descriptive Geometry ...
      2. EvilLion
        EvilLion 1 January 2021 15: 55
        +2
        And therefore they grew up, that they were suppressed, or did not receive an answer, which means they were looking for it where it is really better not to meddle. And the Union in the 91st was surrendered by all the people. No need to talk about the traitors at the top. The activities of these traitors did not meet adequate resistance.
    2. Sling cutter
      Sling cutter 30 December 2020 18: 39
      +21
      Quote: svp67
      Before discussing and comparing something, it might be worth remembering the HISTORY

      Happy Birthday Motherland !!!
      1. Anachoret
        Anachoret 30 December 2020 18: 59
        +4
        drinks drinks drinks
        And so that, in spite of everything, we are still "YES"!
  2. Sling cutter
    Sling cutter 30 December 2020 18: 11
    +25
    It seemed to me alone that the article is from the category in the elderberry garden ..?
    1. aleksejkabanets
      aleksejkabanets 30 December 2020 18: 27
      +17
      hi
      Quote: Stroporez
      It seemed to me alone that the article is from the category in the elderberry garden ..?

      And there is. Besides, the reasoning of some immature teenager or something. The quality of the Soviet passenger car and the quality of the Soviet education system, how can these categories be compared with each other? The value of Soviet education lies primarily in the fact that it taught to flawlessly build cause-and-effect relationships. The fact that all the material, on any subject, was given very consistently and logically. It is enough just to compare the textbooks of the elementary grades, at least then and now. Yes, to comment on the article reluctance, stupidity on stupidity.
      1. EvilLion
        EvilLion 1 January 2021 15: 55
        0
        People are smart, but they can't make a normal car.
      2. kalibr
        kalibr 1 January 2021 17: 03
        -1
        Quote: aleksejkabanets
        The value of Soviet education primarily lies in the fact that it taught to flawlessly build cause-and-effect relationships.

        And he taught ... and then came 91 and lost all his impeccable connections!
    2. Anachoret
      Anachoret 30 December 2020 18: 28
      +13
      indeed, a set of controversial arguments

      the number of engineers, for example, has also decreased, since the number of design organizations has decreased significantly
      fundamental scientific and research work has been suspended or minimized
      and the scientific reserve of the current professorship is used in order to build all sorts of colliders in Britain, China and other countries who will give real money to our scientists
      our scientific projects are funded on a leftover basis, with amendments so as not to offend brother Kovalchuk

      graphic designers were called designers, but this did not make our developments ergonomic (even elementary house designs)
      about the demand for smart home designers, when doing repairs at home, my masters who did all the automation, light and control themselves dissuaded me from a smart home for a reason, if the housing is less than 400 square meters - a smart home will be more of an expensive toy than a really useful function ... so that is also a controversial statement.
      1. aleksejkabanets
        aleksejkabanets 30 December 2020 18: 35
        +16
        Quote: Anchorite
        graphic artists named designers

        I am more moved by such professions as "Masters of nail service", and most of all I like the way "Architects of eyebrows" sounds. If anyone had told me about this year in 85, he would not have believed it.
        1. Anachoret
          Anachoret 30 December 2020 18: 48
          +10
          painter-plasterer face
          seamstress-minder of facial threads
          barber bartender (pouring hairdresser)
          freelance sommelier (unemployed alcoholic)
          badi-positive instagram model (infantile SSBBW)
          the list of promising professions goes on)
      2. EvilLion
        EvilLion 1 January 2021 15: 57
        0
        Science can be fundamental, and projects are carried out by engineers, these are different categories. The price of a smart home 10 years ago, now, and 10 years later, things are also different. There may be fewer designers in the military, but the army is 5 times smaller, and the cycle of updating weapons has increased.
    3. New Year day
      New Year day 30 December 2020 18: 43
      +8
      Quote: Stroporez
      It seemed to me alone that the article is from the category in the elderberry garden ..?

      Solid bullshit, not an article.
      ... Complete disregard for entire areas of human activity

      On the example of the automotive industry, he proves that everything is bad. Why didn't you take the space industry, aircraft construction? So I would have already taken, for the sake of color, our cotton growing and the textile industry from them.
      Soviet cars were not so bad, and the lag in quality and comfort depended on the terms of reference and the set framework for the designers.
      ... Learning from under the stick

      It seems that the author himself studied this way. Whoever wanted to, he studied. Whoever played the fool, he did. The author wants to convince that today's pedagogical process is the best? Previously, teachers took bribes for exams? - No, now they are taking it! Previously, did the 10th grade graduates know about Kosmodemyanskaya, Matrosov? - They knew, now, no
      And so you can destroy the entire opus by little things. It's a pity to spend time on this. Brain cancer!
      1. Svarog
        Svarog 30 December 2020 20: 54
        +10
        Quote: Silvestr
        ... Whoever wanted to, he studied. Who played the fool, he played

        That's really really .. I remember myself .. and how they taught .. Until the fourth grade, a round excellent student .. well, then it started .. the street .. and street education seemed more interesting .. The school of life passed such that a book can be written) But here are teachers, Soviet teachers .. I remember them with great gratitude and am amazed at their professionalism .. German .. still, without practice, for over 30 years .. I have been translating everything that seems to be in films .. Although there was a four in German .. Lilia Petrovna said, if I have four, the others will have five .. She was German. It's about the same story with chemistry ..
        Soviet education, teachers .. were the best .. and it was not for nothing that capitalist countries copied our system ..
        Moreover, I worked for 25 years in Western corporations .. in a conversation with the manager for Eastern Europe and China, I learned that the company has completely adopted the USSR system for the planned economy .. now all corporations have five-year planning .. of course, the modified system is somewhat different. ..but essentially our Soviet ..
        And boobies ... continue to believe in liberalism and other nonsense ..
        1. Mishka78
          Mishka78 31 December 2020 13: 36
          +3




          Actually, that's all there is to say.
      2. BastaKarapuzik And
        BastaKarapuzik And 31 December 2020 09: 58
        -2
        Quote: Silvestr
        Soviet cars were not so bad, and the lag in quality and comfort depended on the terms of reference and the set framework for the designers.

        We still have it, the state enterprise is hand and foot connected. And the career system in it does not promote engineers to leadership positions. Nobody can do anything, nobody has any authority, nobody is responsible for anything in the end. And even on the contrary - it is better to sit "on .. exactly" and not take on any responsibility - you will be more complete.
        All the same, many Western models of equipment were good, and they were brought to mass production on a regular basis. How did they do it? If we in the USSR, with the best system in the world, had obvious problems with this? Well, you don't have to go far for examples, it's enough to take electronics, car industry, machine-tool industry. Much of the above was lagging behind for objective reasons, the sales market for our products was smaller, but AvtoVAZ has been riveting this one and the same crook for decades, and this is a clear example of sluggishness and disinterest and inflexibility (lack of competition or what?)
      3. kalibr
        kalibr 1 January 2021 17: 05
        -1
        Quote: Silvestr
        Previously, did the graduates of the 10th grade know about Kosmodemyanskaya, Matrosov? -

        You know! Go to the boss and ask for a raise!
  3. Tank jacket
    Tank jacket 30 December 2020 18: 18
    +10
    "We brought up creators, and now consumers" (c) Fursenko.
    Jen Psaki is a vivid example of what Fursenko and Livanov were striving for.
    1. novel66
      novel66 30 December 2020 18: 23
      +9
      taught to think. first of all, and be able to ... Ruslan hi
      1. Tank jacket
        Tank jacket 30 December 2020 19: 12
        +2
        Novel, hi Happy New Year! I agree, they were also engaged in socialization and raising children. The school had male teachers. Now there are few of them in schools, it has become not prestigious ... Physics, history, geography, astronomy (by the way, where is astronomy?), Labor, physical education and life safety were taught to me by men.
      2. kalibr
        kalibr 1 January 2021 17: 06
        -2
        Quote: novel xnumx
        taught to think. first of all, and be able to ..

        And they didn’t think it out, and didn’t manage to in the end, right?
        1. novel66
          novel66 1 January 2021 17: 45
          0
          The two men have ruined the country! lol
          1. kalibr
            kalibr 1 January 2021 18: 17
            0
            Quote: novel xnumx
            The two men have ruined the country!

            With the best education in the world, they cannot be! But if they were, how did they get upstairs, where did the workers' control and the All-Union Central Council of Trade Unions, party control and ... the KGB look? It turns out that there were also Losers? Losers everywhere !!! Losers country?
            1. novel66
              novel66 1 January 2021 20: 11
              +3
              the country was ruled by a gray mass of troeshniks who could not work anywhere else and these people, without knowledge, but with ambitions, did what Hitler could not
              1. kalibr
                kalibr 1 January 2021 20: 27
                0
                Quote: novel xnumx
                the country was ruled by a gray mass of troeshniks who could not work anywhere else and these people, without knowledge, but with ambitions, did what Hitler could not

                ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
                1. novel66
                  novel66 2 January 2021 10: 09
                  0
                  Vyacheslav, I am glad to communicate, your articles often find a warm response from me hi
                  1. kalibr
                    kalibr 2 January 2021 10: 14
                    +1
                    Nice to hear! Happy New Year to you!
  4. paul3390
    paul3390 30 December 2020 18: 21
    +26
    The stump is clear - comparing education in the USSR and the Russian Federation is meaningless. The USSR definitely did not need wild hordes of lawyers, such as economists, marketers, managers and other, other mold. And what was needed was workers, scientists, engineers, doctors, teachers, and so on. Creators. For in such a huge country - by definition, there should not be enough workers, there will be enough work for centuries to come. Unless, of course, to deal with the good of the country and the people, and not to fill bottomless pockets.

    As for the general employment in the Union - there is a feeling that it is now trying to attach all the unemployed somewhere, creating absurd jobs. Like guards and loafers with them. Well this is necessary - hundreds of thousands of healthy men are sitting there guarding .. And who really doesn’t need anyone, and where needed - there from time immemorial grandmother sat, the button to call the cops if she pressed Th ..

    And so - almost everywhere. There is a stormy and ebullient imitation of useful activities throughout the country. In all spheres and areas. But in fact - a complete zilch .. A huge bunch of people stupidly kicks the bulldozer. Catching up on blatant crap. Creatives, vigorous .. For - colonial rule. The people here are not supposed to do anything useful for the country. Only by serving the export of raw materials ..

    1. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 30 December 2020 20: 43
      +2
      Quote: paul3390
      ... But in reality - a complete zilch .. A huge bunch of people stupidly kicks the bulldozer. Catching up on blatant crap.

      A friend works in security. On New Year's Day, they ordered to make a round every hour, instead of once every two hours. Well, the salary is not twice as much as in the USSR it was on holidays and weekends, but only a third more than the daily one.
      1. Svarog
        Svarog 30 December 2020 21: 14
        +10
        Quote: Mordvin 3
        but only a third more daily.

        For my subordinates, in general, with a scandal, I knock out processing ... they will soon be fired ... but that's a shame for people ... every year, more and more ... they turn into slaves ..
        1. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 30 December 2020 21: 19
          +3
          Quote: Svarog
          For my subordinates, in general, with a scandal, I knock out processing ... they will soon be fired ... but that's a shame for people ... every year, more and more ... they turn into slaves ..

          I worked for a bourgeois, he fought for quality and did not let him relax, but on weekends he paid double wages, since in the USSR he worked as a shop manager for half his life. And here ... The further, the more beautiful.
          1. Svarog
            Svarog 30 December 2020 21: 25
            +5
            Quote: mordvin xnumx
            Quote: Svarog
            For my subordinates, in general, with a scandal, I knock out processing ... they will soon be fired ... but that's a shame for people ... every year, more and more ... they turn into slaves ..

            I worked for a bourgeois, he fought for quality and did not let him relax, but on weekends he paid double wages, since in the USSR he worked as a shop manager for half his life.

            Yes, there are different ones .. but there are fewer and fewer adequate ones .. We have one poster of Stalin at the entrance hung up .. and his quotes about a five-hour working day .. But this is of course a rarity ..
            In general, even those who survived in the 90s with the Soviet mentality .. have already started to become deserted .. on the one hand, you understand them .. seeing that the enterprise is working at a loss .. on the other, blood boils .. from injustice to the workers .. it would be okay to "roll" the ox .. they plow .. the Negro did not dream in the cold .. but the money is the same ..
            1. Mordvin 3
              Mordvin 3 30 December 2020 22: 30
              +5
              Quote: Svarog
              blacks never dreamed of in the cold .. but the money is the same ..

              But where are the blacks. A black man would try to stand at the machine in a twenty-degree frost, when steam is coming down from the gloves wet from the emulsion, and the machines themselves have to be heated for half an hour with a cutter in the morning. And this is all because there is no money for heating, you just go broke on it. And this is not the forty-second year, but the current reality.
    2. Akuzenka
      Akuzenka 31 December 2020 00: 44
      +3
      There is a stormy and ebullient imitation of useful activities throughout the country.
      I disagree. There is a VERY active activity going on. Activities to generate wealth for the rich and increase poverty among the poor. In Russian: "their" capitalists are robbing the country, and the strangers are not lagging behind. And the rest: education, medicine, pensions - are not needed, therefore they are destroyed. And who conducts this stormy activity, there is no difference: what is the one who is in power now, that the one who will climb there soon or later. The robbery can only grow. Yes, I forgot, soon they will get involved in the war and will pour the blood of those who are being robbed.
    3. Kostya Lavinyukov
      Kostya Lavinyukov 31 December 2020 01: 47
      -6
      So, in the end, nothing works without managers. The economy of the USSR is a vivid example of this.
      1. IS-80_RVGK2
        IS-80_RVGK2 31 December 2020 02: 32
        +7
        In the USSR, everything was somewhat more complicated than capitalists like to tell. Only yesterday, a peasant country, a little less than completely, made a leap into the most advanced OEF. It wasn't just hard, it was incredibly hard. And eventually collapsed under the weight of a heap of problems. The direction was right. But we just couldn't find the right path. And was it possible at that time? Then it seemed that, yes. That which was built somehow very little resembled socialism. Yes, it seems that the state was social, but at the same time under the strict rule of the party nomenklatura. It was not quite what it was, or rather not at all what Marx meant by the dictatorship of the proletariat. Overcoming marketability did not take place. It was also not possible to pull the economy to a level high enough to consolidate a new social consciousness. The Great Patriotic War wiped out entire working generations, including many of those for whom communism was not an empty word. This was a severe blow to the economy. This is of course a moot point. Would it even work with them? But without them it didn't work out for sure. In general, it was a difficult time. But then there was hope and the right direction. And now? I am not inclined to idealize the USSR. I remember a lot of bad things. But let the Russian Federation still live a little better than the USSR, since 30 years have passed almost as there is no USSR, it is following the road that will lead the country to disaster. However, not one of ours. Now the whole world is marching there in orderly rows.
        1. Drugov
          Drugov 1 January 2021 20: 49
          0
          Do not add, do not diminish.
  5. Vasilenko Vladimir
    Vasilenko Vladimir 30 December 2020 18: 22
    +20
    Let me give you a simple example. Previously, drawings were drawn by hand. This means that for a certain project, conditionally 50 specialists were required. Drawing was a very laborious process. For this reason, it was previously taught in every Soviet school.
    I don't even know if it makes sense to read further, as the author absolutely does not know what he is writing about
    APTOR Do you really think that the lack of knowledge on the basics of building drawings will allow you to work with programs on your computer? !!!!
    1. Vasilenko Vladimir
      Vasilenko Vladimir 30 December 2020 18: 32
      +13
      purely sporting interest
      the one who put a minus at least one drawing on the computer made?
    2. apro
      apro 30 December 2020 18: 35
      +10
      Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
      APTOR Do you really think that the lack of knowledge on the basics of building drawings will allow you to work with programs on your computer? !!!!

      He thinks that the computer itself makes the drawing .. you just have to press the button. ...
      1. Vasilenko Vladimir
        Vasilenko Vladimir 30 December 2020 18: 42
        +11
        was here once a year ago, "teacher", well, in any case, he asserted so, the same proved that "zhi" "shi" did not need to be taught, more how the computer will make corrections itself
    3. paul3390
      paul3390 30 December 2020 18: 54
      +12
      Do you really think that the lack of knowledge on the basics of building drawings will allow you to work with programs on your computer? !!!!

      My friend at the Polytech teaches writing. There is no hang-up from students, there is a queue for a month, rehearsals tirelessly. For all sane people understand that if you are not able to execute a drawing with a pencil, then no CAD will help you. And so - in almost all areas .. The collimator is useless, if you do not know how to shoot from the open. They didn't teach me how to write with a pen - the keyboard won't fix things. You should always start from scratch.
      1. Vasilenko Vladimir
        Vasilenko Vladimir 30 December 2020 19: 03
        +7
        It's just that APtor writes nonsense, the computer is a tool, not a performer, and if you do not know how to read a drawing, then all one thing is on paper or on a monitor
      2. Vasilenko Vladimir
        Vasilenko Vladimir 30 December 2020 19: 12
        +6
        Quote: paul3390
        For all sane people understand that if you are not able to execute a drawing with a pencil, then no CAD will help you.

        the author has never come across a paper drawing or CAD programs, he is not aware that the program only simplifies life and allows you to make a more accurate construction, but the principle itself is the same and if you do not know the basics, then nothing to build on the computer can you
        1. BastaKarapuzik And
          BastaKarapuzik And 31 December 2020 10: 22
          0
          You are partly right, but imagine making changes to the finished drawings. So it turns out that where the draftsman worked all day, now it takes only half an hour.
          But we need fewer draftsmen trivially due to the fact that the volume of production has fallen, that at those enterprises where at least a dozen turners worked, today there are only three of them, and even those are busy with primitive work (the bolts are sharpened, conditionally), and not some complicated details. That is, there are also fewer turners. And if so, then technologists are not needed, batches of parts are scanty, we are not talking about any technical processes. No complicated machine tools, no complicated expensive tools. There are no blanks made by casting or stamping, everything is made of round timber with the maximum amount of waste in chips.
          So it turns out, draftsmen are in little demand, as well as turners, technologists, toolmakers, etc.
          1. Vasilenko Vladimir
            Vasilenko Vladimir 1 January 2021 10: 01
            +2
            Quote: BastaKarapuzikI
            You are partly right, but imagine making changes to the finished drawings. So it turns out that where the draftsman worked all day, now it takes only half an hour.

            the conversation was about something else, about the fact that with automation the qualifications of engineers are reduced, and this is nonsense
        2. nedgen
          nedgen 31 December 2020 19: 01
          +1
          the author has never come across a paper drawing or CAD programs, he is not aware that the program only simplifies life and allows you to make a more accurate construction, but the principle itself is the same and if you do not know the basics, then nothing to build on the computer can you

          I absolutely agree with you. I work with CAD myself sometimes. Yes, it speeds up the work, but without knowledge of the basics of drawing, NOTHING works hi
          And the author did not even make any comparison of the educational systems of the USSR and the Russian Federation. So I compared the general economic situation and that's it. And the fact that in order to create something high-tech you need to have FUNDAMENTAL knowledge in the field of work, he somehow does not even mention. Even the simplest thing - he gave an example with graphic design. Well, you don't need to draw pictures on computers for cartoons or even for advertising special knowledge (you need to have talent from birth), but to create such a dashboard like in a cartoon about a Japanese car - for this knowledge of ergonomics, and general knowledge even medicine needs to have. It's also good to know the capabilities of the available components, etc. etc. And all the knowledge is given by SCHOOL and UNIVER and also PRACTICE. For example, until recently in Britain, a ten-year-old schoolchild could hardly cope with elementary multiplication and division. Now there, for example, they went to the other extreme (although I'm not sure if they are extreme). There are now 5 year olds teaching multiplication and division up to a hundred and now at 5 years old. And further in the future, everything will go on increasing (for children who have abilities). Those who do not follow the old program with light loads (after all, stupid consumers and ordinary workers will always be needed, at least to work in stores), and those who manage to allocate those in classes for capable children and load them in full. And from these children I will probably create a future elita. And engineering and humanitarian, etc. effective managers and scientists. AND WE HAVE?
          1. Vasilenko Vladimir
            Vasilenko Vladimir 1 January 2021 10: 06
            0
            Quote: nedgen
            Well, you don't need to draw pictures on computers for cartoons or even to advertise special knowledge (you need to have talent from birth)

            still as necessary, if you do not know the basics of the printing process technology, then as a result you will get one hundred percent marriage, unless the task is to draw stupidly without further use, a real life situation, people who did not know the difference between CMYK and RGB color models prepared everything for printing in RGB system and agreed with the client on the monitor in the same way, as a result, instead of one color on the print, I got a completely different one, I will draw a three-dimensional cartoon without knowing the basics of drawing
    4. saigon
      saigon 30 December 2020 19: 03
      +8
      Apparently the author thinks so and confuses the engineer and the draftsman.
      Perhaps the author forgets a little that in addition to the design engineer, there are other mechanical engineers and technologists.
      Well, the level of other designers working with programs is amazing, such pranks as unaccounted for linear expansion of the metal during heating, not calculated loads, but what the program draws, but the program does not think and does not set parameters for itself. Sorry for the senile grumbling)))
      1. Vasilenko Vladimir
        Vasilenko Vladimir 30 December 2020 19: 15
        +3
        but why the grumbling, it is, about the draftsmen, the very first thought was that APtor was not in the know, he confuses the accountant with the one who clogs the base
        1. saigon
          saigon 30 December 2020 19: 18
          +5
          I am a mechanic, but I still gave the basics of design and there was a lot of emphasis on drawing. I don't know exactly how the author imagines the work of an engineer, in my opinion it is vague.
          1. Vasilenko Vladimir
            Vasilenko Vladimir 30 December 2020 19: 22
            +4
            Quote: saigon
            I don't know exactly how the author imagines the work of an engineer, in my opinion it is vague.

            I’ll tell you more, and he doesn’t know a damn thing about everything else, he came to the accountants-interfaces (until he mastered this nonsense) there is the same nonsense
            Quote: saigon
            I am a mechanic, however, the basics of design were still given and there was a very great emphasis on drawing

            Many workers' specialties cannot do without knowledge of the construction of drawings, and it does not matter if you work on an ancient machine the same age as Ilyich or on a modern computerized complex
    5. lucul
      lucul 30 December 2020 20: 00
      -7
      APTOR Do you really think that the lack of knowledge on the basics of building drawings will allow you to work with programs on your computer? !!!!

      How to say))) Now many people write music on a computer without even knowing about the notes)))
      Now there is a strong automation of engineering work, computer modeling greatly simplifies the process of calculations. If before the cab of a truck could be developed by a whole design department for a couple of years, now the computer will calculate it itself in a couple of hours, you just need to enter the initial data.
      Here, assess the level of technology when assembling the Su-57 aircraft)))
      1. Vasilenko Vladimir
        Vasilenko Vladimir 30 December 2020 20: 08
        +7
        Quote: lucul
        How to say))) Now many people write music on a computer without even knowing about the notes)))
        Do you really think that without knowing what a projection is, you can build something with a computer ?!
        but about music, probably that is why old songs and melodies have now received a second wind; how to write new ones without knowing the notes

        Quote: lucul
        Now there is a strong automation of engineering work, computer modeling greatly simplifies the process of calculations. If before the cab of a truck could be developed by a whole design department for a couple of years

        Apparently, you are not quite in the subject, the computer simplifies and speeds up, but personally, you cannot calculate even software-2 using a computer
        Quote: lucul
        Here's an estimate of the level of technology when assembling the Su-57

        so evaluate the level of knowledge and skills required to create it

        p / s / 15 years ago I went to the launch of computer embroidery machines, the Germans put them in one factory, I was responsible for training a specialist on site who would prepare files for embroidery, so we started the machine and none of the seamstresses could work on it not enough
        1. lucul
          lucul 30 December 2020 20: 09
          -12%
          Apparently, you are not quite in the subject, the computer simplifies and speeds up, but personally, you cannot calculate even software-2 using a computer

          Apparently, you are not very familiar with such a concept as CAD.
          1. Vasilenko Vladimir
            Vasilenko Vladimir 30 December 2020 20: 19
            +3
            oooh
            You seem to be a specialist, can you specify how many projects have been done in computer-aided design systems ?!
            1. lucul
              lucul 30 December 2020 20: 23
              -9
              You seem to be a specialist, can you specify how many projects have been done in computer-aided design systems ?!

              Do you know how much a set of specialized libraries, say Solidworks, costs? And without them, you just have a naked Solidworks, little adapted to design.
              1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                Vasilenko Vladimir 30 December 2020 20: 26
                +5
                What are you talking about now ?!
                or by purchasing a full package of the program, did you manage to buy knowledge in order to work with it? !!!!
                I have been working on my computer for almost 30 years, I don’t need to rub in about a bear and a bicycle
                I have trained more than one specialist in my field
                1. lucul
                  lucul 30 December 2020 20: 32
                  -12%
                  I have been working on my computer for almost 30 years, I don’t need to rub in about a bear and a bicycle

                  And how many paid libraries do you have installed? Without them, Solidworks and other CAD systems are almost useless.
                  1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                    Vasilenko Vladimir 30 December 2020 20: 48
                    +3
                    Quote: lucul
                    And how many paid libraries do you have installed? Without them, Solidworks and other CAD systems are almost useless.

                    ooo
                    how everything is running
                    do you really think that everyone works exclusively with CAD?
                2. lucul
                  lucul 30 December 2020 20: 35
                  -9
                  What are you talking about now ?!

                  Here, read it at your leisure - here is a retelling of a sensational post (revelation) on the forum, a former designer of BMW engines.
                  Provides an initial introduction to modern CAD capabilities.
                  1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                    Vasilenko Vladimir 30 December 2020 20: 49
                    +1
                    you would first learn how to use the site
                    by the way, they did not answer where and who do you work
                    1. lucul
                      lucul 30 December 2020 21: 34
                      -8
                      you would first learn how to use the site

                      Here is the link
                      https://drive2-ru.turbopages.org/drive2.ru/s/b/484033606923059462/
                      1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Vasilenko Vladimir 30 December 2020 22: 41
                        +3
                        have you read it yourself ?!
                        where at least one word about unnecessary basic knowledge? !!!!
                        with something in the article you can agree with something no, but definitely this translation is not in your support
        2. lucul
          lucul 30 December 2020 20: 13
          -7
          Do you really think that without knowing what a projection is, you can build what with a computer?

          You know, I see how a child is 4 years old, on the Internet he can easily find the information he is interested in, at a time when 60-year-old people with higher education cannot find it)))
          1. Vasilenko Vladimir
            Vasilenko Vladimir 30 December 2020 20: 21
            +4
            Quote: lucul
            You know, I see how a child is 4 years old, on the Internet he can easily find the information he is interested in, at a time when 60-year-old people with higher education cannot find it)))

            to find information and use it correctly, there are two different things, moreover, I am not sure that, as you put it, "a child of 4 years old" finds exactly that information that leads to the correct answer, because there are different things in tyrnet
            1. lucul
              lucul 30 December 2020 20: 27
              -8
              to find information and use it correctly, there are two different things, moreover, I am not sure that, as you put it, "a child of 4 years old" finds exactly that information that leads to the correct answer, because there are different things in tyrnet

              It's as easy as shelling pears - the child finds the cartoon that interests him without any problems, while his grandmother, having a higher Soviet education, is not very suitable for this.
              How so? After all, the child does not have the necessary knowledge. The answer is simple - he who wants is looking for a solution, and who does not want to look for excuses.
              1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                Vasilenko Vladimir 30 December 2020 20: 35
                +4
                Quote: lucul
                It's as easy as shelling pears - the child finds the cartoon that interests him without any problems

                you will be surprised, but the chimpanzee also very simply finds a stick and uses it to get a rvba
                Quote: lucul
                After all, the child does not have the necessary knowledge. The answer is simple - he who wants is looking for a solution, and who does not want to look for excuses.

                what are you talking about?!!
                I will now give you a computer-controlled sewing machine and tell you to do a good thing, and if you cannot, then I will answer with your words
                KNOWLEDGE IS NEEDED for high-quality work, the search for a solution is obtaining this knowledge, the author claims that knowledge is NOT NEEDED
                1. lucul
                  lucul 30 December 2020 20: 39
                  -11%
                  the search for a solution is the acquisition of this knowledge, the author claims that knowledge is NOT NEEDED

                  Okay, let's go from the other side - here's a 4 year old child - can he extract the square or cube root of CAM without having the necessary mathematical base? Maybe - if you teach him to press a couple of buttons on the calculator.
                  1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                    Vasilenko Vladimir 30 December 2020 20: 46
                    +4
                    Quote: lucul
                    Maybe - if you teach him to press a couple of buttons on the calculator.

                    if the goal in itself is to extract exclusively the root, then yes, but that's why, by the way, will the child understand WHAT he did
                    sorry for the harshness, but the example is extremely stupid
                    1. lucul
                      lucul 30 December 2020 20: 56
                      -8
                      sorry for the harshness, but the example is extremely stupid

                      The example shows the possibility of this, although you previously denied the very possibility.
                      Do not misunderstand me - I am not saying that you are wrong, no, your point of view is correct ideally. Of course, I would like the worker at his workplace to have a theoretical knowledge base of the level of a professor, but this is too expensive - therefore, modern automation is being created, in which they try to reduce the level of training of the necessary personnel to the level of a calculator user.
                      1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Vasilenko Vladimir 30 December 2020 21: 09
                        0
                        Quote: lucul
                        The example shows the possibility of this, although you previously denied the very possibility.

                        are you really kidding ?!
                        open to the child, for example, a corel and an illustrator and ask them to prepare impositions for printing, and this despite the fact that the child does not know the basics of printing and how the color systems differ
                        maybe the child will draw a clumsy picture using intuitive icons, but when it comes to technical preparation and output everything will stop
                        to draw a primitive object without reference to coordinates, someone will probably be able to pile, but a project and a drawn cube are different things
                  2. pin_code
                    pin_code 1 January 2021 07: 33
                    +2
                    let's go from the other side. here we have a city hospital, in the USSR, there were 2 extras (with forms and bills, and now there is a whole department of them with computers (we will also add PC and software maintenance) and there are many such examples ... but about a child ... remote control from the TV (with a pacifier), so you have already been given an example of a monkey, and this is true.first, the child's memory is visual.but at 4 years old ...
                2. koramax81
                  koramax81 9 January 2021 00: 42
                  -1
                  Judging by how many comments you have on various articles, then you do not work anywhere and only scribble comments. Either you are not so hot a worker ...
                  1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                    Vasilenko Vladimir 9 January 2021 09: 54
                    -1
                    Quote: koramax81
                    Judging by how many comments you have on various articles, then you do not work anywhere and only scribble comments. Either you are not so hot a worker ...

                    on the topic have something to say, or will you discuss my qualifications?
                    but what about where and how I work, then you are even in the queue of those sk em this I will discuss not worth it
                    for reference, my labor and trade union were discharged at the age of 14
                    1. koramax81
                      koramax81 9 January 2021 21: 25
                      -2
                      What time your "labor and trade union" began - it's like a dispute about the ability to give a blowjob to the one who lost her virginity at 14 and the one that lost at 18))))
                    2. koramax81
                      koramax81 9 January 2021 21: 29
                      -1
                      And on the topic? I don't try to argue with fools who think that everyone knows ... I just read, analyze and sometimes leave comments
                      1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Vasilenko Vladimir 9 January 2021 22: 28
                        0
                        debate is over, blowjob specialist
                        all the best
                      2. koramax81
                        koramax81 10 January 2021 02: 31
                        -2
                        So you admit that your seniority is actually SHIT? Thanks for the decent answer))))
        3. Taga
          Taga 30 December 2020 20: 48
          +1
          MB because they are interested in different things?
    6. Alexander Vorontsov
      30 December 2020 20: 57
      -3
      Quote: lucul
      Now many people write music on a computer without even knowing about the notes)))


      And not only)))

      And this is not a joke, but reality




      But it works both ways.
      And not promoted musicians have the opportunity to show their creativity to the whole world.

      The choice is for the person to listen to. By the way, below is Yesenin. In the USSR he was a "decadent poet" ... was not welcomed))
      1. lucul
        lucul 30 December 2020 21: 05
        -4
        And not only)))

        The bell breaks - 20 messages have already been posted, there is no answer for all the time, I will round off.
        And so thanks for the article, at least someone was not afraid to look at reality impartially.
      2. Svarog
        Svarog 1 January 2021 16: 04
        +5
        Quote: Alexander Vorontsov
        The choice is for the person to listen to. By the way, below is Yesenin. In the USSR he was a "decadent poet" ... was not welcomed))

        Who was not welcomed? And what poets are there in modern Russia, the level of Yesenin? And if he was not welcomed, why were his portraits all over the place .. and in the courtyards on guitars, every kid played songs on his poems?
        Which, in your opinion, are welcome .. You speak with templates .. you compare .. but there is nothing to compare with ..
        My friend in the first grade wrote poems .. shone to Yesenin ..
        -Sergey Yesenin died in vain,
        He would write poetry
        and the guys had fun and learned to write poetry ..
        You are from a different reality, which has nothing in common with the USSR and does not know anything .. for this it is better for you not to compare, what you don’t know about .. with what you don’t understand clearly ..
        1. Alexander Vorontsov
          1 January 2021 16: 59
          -3
          Quote: Svarog
          Who was not welcomed?

          Read the Soviet classics to which I referred - there are answers to your questions.
          Or go and listen
          https://esenin-museum.ru/portfolios/esenin_i_sovetskaya_vlast

          And what poets are there in modern Russia, the level of Yesenin?

          The question itself suggests that you are not that you are an amateur, but you do not even have a minimal set of theoretical knowledge about the subject.
          I can advise you on Shadrin's course of lectures - a very good one. At affordable prices.
          You will have to devote about 50 hours to studying the subject, and then you will understand why it is absurd to ask such questions ... a poet of "Yesenin's level".

          But you don’t give up. Even if this person is an honored art critic and teaches people for a penny.
          You don't fucking get it, you know. Like all other information that I refer to.
          By the fact that it is the brain that needs to be strained. Or because this is the value of knowledge in your real world. That you would rather spend money on beer, or on a car loan ... than on some kind of lecture course.
          But you will talk about Yesenin as if you know everything.

          There are many poets. I like the same Yefimitch, the link to which I gave you.


          Everything is there (and it's not only and not so much about Efimich)
          You just don't know about it.
          By the fact that they told you about Yesenin, they chewed it up and brought it on a silver platter.
          And your real interest in poetry is near-zero at the same time, because as soon as the question arises to find something on your own, at least hit your finger on your finger, despite the fact that there is the Internet, the problem immediately arises.

          So people are defending their right to drink pivasik, consume any trashy information content, at a time when they have all access to information - and at the same time be dissatisfied with why they stopped forcibly and free of charge planting information in their heads.

          PS
          Regarding Yesenin and the program, the link to which I wa mdal. item out of it.
          "Two-facedness, betrayal, permissiveness of the new" friends "of the poet (Blumkin, Ustinov, Trotsky, Kamenev) and Yesenin's departure from the galaxy of peasant poets."

          After all, it is only the local pseudo-USSR fans who live in a parallel reality, where in the USSR every talented son of a milkmaid easily became a nuclear physicist and there was no repression of talented people, and sometimes they were not killed by whole families, and Yesenin had no problems with his "Friends", which are referred to in the program .. and the Queen was not imprisoned on denunciations ... and Sikorsky, who founded one of the leading companies in the United States, was not forced to flee Russia because of the threat of violence.

          And what poets are there in modern Russia, the level of Yesenin?

          Yes, no. If during all this time you have not been able to immerse yourself in literary life

          You speak with templates .. you compare .. but there is nothing to compare with ..

          Akhrenet in general, referring to the classic of Soviet literature Vasiliev, who briefly reflected in his work the state of affairs around Yesenin, I turn out to be speaking in templates.
          10 out of 5 for logic.
          1. Svarog
            Svarog 1 January 2021 17: 18
            +5
            Quote: Alexander Vorontsov
            I like the same Yefimitch,

            I also like Efimych .. but to Yesenin, in my subjective opinion .. does not hold out.
            then you will understand why it is absurd to ask such questions ... a poet of "Yesenin's level".

            I'm afraid that you do not understand what it is about .. Who among the youth today knows poets .. I'm not talking about the classics, maybe the names of some people know .. I'm talking about contemporaries. What does this mean? About the quality of today's education?
            The question itself suggests that you are not that you are an amateur, but you do not even have a minimal set of theoretical knowledge about the subject.

            I am an amateur and I do not pretend to be more .. and you see a lot of pathos, but little validity of your own arguments ..
            By the fact that they told you about Yesenin, they chewed it up and brought it on a silver platter.

            Notice how you contradict yourself .. the Soviet authorities "did not like" him, then they chewed him ..
            Everything is simpler again .. if the templates are removed .. Soviet power was different .. and consisted not of cars, but of people .., accordingly, someone liked it, someone didn’t .. but the people recognized him and the Soviet government did not hesitate to pronounce his name .. The Soviet regime, in contrast to the current one, had much more freedom ... But tastes were different. Stalin liked Bulgakov .. but in general they did not like him (Bulgakov) either .. judging by today's liberal historians ..
            Akhrenet in general, referring to the classic of Soviet literature Vasiliev, who briefly reflected in his work the state of affairs around Yesenin, I turn out to be speaking in templates.
            10 out of 5 for logic.

            You see how you are hooked and goggled .. a value judgment .. well, this is normal, just not for the author of the article, whose work we are discussing ..
            Learn without emotions, to defend your opinion reasonably, not just arguing, but looking for the truth ..
            She is somewhere near laughing
            This is a provocation and manipulation .. calculated on your immense pride .. laughing
            About pivasik guessed right .. today I just drink it .. but in general I prefer whiskey or moonshine ..
  6. Dart2027
    Dart2027 30 December 2020 20: 04
    -7
    Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
    Do you really think that the lack of knowledge on the basics of building drawings will allow you to work with programs on a computer

    And you really cannot understand that the speech is about the fact that before several people were needed where there is now one?
    1. lucul
      lucul 30 December 2020 20: 07
      -7
      And you really cannot understand that the speech is about the fact that before several people were needed where there is now one?

      They cling to the details of the article, although the author presented the meaning itself correctly, although he did not fully reveal the nuances.
      1. Vasilenko Vladimir
        Vasilenko Vladimir 30 December 2020 20: 24
        +4
        Quote: lucul
        They cling to the details of the article, although the author gave the meaning itself correctly

        without knowledge, you can do something with a computer? !!!
        can you find out where and by whom you work ?!
        1. lucul
          lucul 30 December 2020 20: 29
          -6
          without knowledge, you can do something with a computer? !!!

          I gave you an example - the music revolution of the 90s. When people have ABSOLUTELY no musical education, they easily write music on a computer. Will you deny?
          1. Vasilenko Vladimir
            Vasilenko Vladimir 30 December 2020 20: 44
            +4
            Quote: lucul
            music education is easy to write music on your computer.

            and I answered you this
          2. Vasilenko Vladimir
            Vasilenko Vladimir 30 December 2020 20: 44
            +5
            By the way, can you name the names of composers and works?
            1. lucul
              lucul 30 December 2020 20: 49
              -5
              By the way, can you name the names of composers and works?

              Why composers? )))
              Does Prodigy say anything to you? And they are recognized as the group that made the greatest contribution to the music of the 90s)))
              1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                Vasilenko Vladimir 30 December 2020 20: 52
                +3
                Quote: lucul
                And they are recognized as the group that made the greatest contribution to the music of the 90s)))

                Well, what about someone and a mare's bride
              2. Vasilenko Vladimir
                Vasilenko Vladimir 30 December 2020 20: 54
                +5
                Quote: lucul
                Why composers? )))

                I already realized that knowledge is not about you, a person who writes music is called a composer
              3. Vasilenko Vladimir
                Vasilenko Vladimir 30 December 2020 20: 58
                +7
                Quote: lucul
                And they are recognized as the group that made the greatest contribution to the music of the 90s)))

                compare these contributors and ...
    2. Vasilenko Vladimir
      Vasilenko Vladimir 30 December 2020 20: 23
      +5
      Quote: Dart2027

      And you really cannot understand that the speech is about the fact that before several people were needed where there is now one?

      Apparently m understanding of the problem read ?!
      read carefully what I wrote about, if you don’t understand, read it again, if you don’t understand again, you can stop reading it, it makes no sense
      1. Dart2027
        Dart2027 30 December 2020 20: 55
        -6
        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
        read carefully what I wrote about

        Read carefully what it is about, you can understand.
  • carstorm 11
    carstorm 11 30 December 2020 18: 27
    -11%
    It is necessary to teach the truth itself, and not how to prove it. This is casuistry. A person devoted to our truth will, if need be, defend it with arms in hand. This is what needs to be taught. And chatter is not our business. We are building a new society, we have no time for chatter. 
    This is now here on the branch and will begin!
    1. saigon
      saigon 30 December 2020 19: 26
      +8
      Yes, you do not need to teach the truth, you need to teach THINK, analyze, you need to teach logic, and the truth, forgive me, is a thing from the category of beautiful abstractions.
      Truth is not a tangible thing and is different for everyone; what is true for one person may be a controversial statement for another.
      And I'm sorry I did not understand what kind of new society are you saying that we are building capitalism?
      So excuse this, oh, how not new, it looks old and rather disgusting at the moment, the new society was built by the USSR.
      1. carstorm 11
        carstorm 11 30 December 2020 19: 30
        -5
        This is not me saying, but an excerpt from the story of Boris Vasiliev "Tomorrow was a war" which was brought by the author) someone generally reads articles or just come in the comments to chop ... and you say to teach THINK)))) Those. 6 people just did not even bother to read the text but began to argue))) and as I understand they were educated in the USSR.
        1. saigon
          saigon 30 December 2020 19: 45
          +1
          Yes, he studied in the USSR, and that. Sudar given to you the text is perceived as yours and as relating to our time, hence the answer.
          1. carstorm 11
            carstorm 11 30 December 2020 19: 48
            0
            Those. after reading it twice, you did not notice the similarity?) This is a very simple test) my father checked me like that with homework in childhood) with the Coming of you)
        2. Vasilenko Vladimir
          Vasilenko Vladimir 30 December 2020 20: 18
          +5
          Quote: carstorm 11
          Those. 6 people just did not even bother to read the text but began to argue))) and as I understand it, they were educated in the USSR.

          I have read to the point that drawing is unnecessary, then I see no point
          if in the first paragraphs of nonsense are then ...
  • Catholic
    Catholic 30 December 2020 18: 29
    +28
    Education in Russia and the USSR: an alternative opinion

    There is nothing even to compare. In the USSR, education was better. I judge by myself and my son.
    1. carstorm 11
      carstorm 11 30 December 2020 18: 44
      -11%
      And I'm on my own and the eldest daughter was born 11 years old. And I practically lose to her in everything. Knows more. Knows more. Makes everything better.
      1. Mordvin 3
        Mordvin 3 30 December 2020 21: 34
        -1
        Quote: carstorm 11
        And I'm on my own and the eldest daughter was born 11 years old. And I practically lose to her in everything. Knows more. Knows more. Makes everything better.

        Well, let her free float, what's the question then?
        1. carstorm 11
          carstorm 11 31 December 2020 03: 09
          +1
          Sometimes people are surprised. Why was it necessary to blurt out this stupidity? The man said about his child, I am an example of mine. Why should I let her go somewhere? She is 9 YEARS old you are a strange person
          1. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 31 December 2020 03: 25
            0
            Quote: carstorm 11
            She is 9 YEARS old you are a strange person

            Conduct an experiment. Give her a thousand. 60, and let her manage the money for the family for a month. Weak? And where is:
            Quote: carstorm 11
            Knows more. Knows more. Makes everything better.
            1. carstorm 11
              carstorm 11 31 December 2020 05: 00
              -1
              It is not necessary. Firstly she is NINE) and secondly she lives with her mother and she is my ex-wife and it is not for me to dictate the budget to her. But I give her money in secret from my mother and she puts it aside for gifts that she wants to choose and give herself) I in her place in her years would spend on all sorts of garbage, such as sweets or games. )
              1. Mordvin 3
                Mordvin 3 31 December 2020 10: 59
                0
                Quote: carstorm 11
                It is not necessary. Firstly she is NINE)

                Oddly enough, I realized this a long time ago.
                Quote: carstorm 11
                But I give her money in secret from my mother and she puts it aside for gifts that she wants to choose and give herself)

                After a couple of years, ask where she put them. It will lie with three boxes.
                1. carstorm 11
                  carstorm 11 31 December 2020 13: 32
                  +1
                  He won't lie) that's the point. I spoke about this. She is better than me)
                  1. Mordvin 3
                    Mordvin 3 31 December 2020 13: 37
                    -1
                    Quote: carstorm 11
                    He won't lie) that's the point.

                    Blessed is he who believes. I have a nephew, a multiple city chess champion, she powdered my grandmothers' brains for a long time, until she crashed my father's car drunk and nearly ran over a couple of people. She is 14 years old
                    at that moment it was.
                    1. carstorm 11
                      carstorm 11 31 December 2020 13: 47
                      0
                      Well, apparently you know my child better than me)))) tie this circus
                      1. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 31 December 2020 13: 50
                        -1
                        Quote: carstorm 11
                        tie this circus

                        Gee-gee ... Let's see what you sing there when reality is revealed.
                      2. carstorm 11
                        carstorm 11 31 December 2020 15: 01
                        0
                        I'm a dad) of three girls. I know perfectly well that my life will not be easy)
                      3. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 31 December 2020 16: 09
                        0
                        Quote: carstorm 11
                        I'm a dad) of three girls.

                        I remember that very well.
  • t-12
    t-12 1 January 2021 23: 45
    0
    What exactly does she know and can do that you don't know? Give a few examples. And that is not clear.
    1. carstorm 11
      carstorm 11 2 January 2021 12: 41
      0
      Well, for example, he speaks English.
      1. t-12
        t-12 2 January 2021 14: 58
        0
        Have you ever been taught foreign languages? Is this some kind of innovation? For example, I was taught, and I do not see anything new in English.
        1. carstorm 11
          carstorm 11 2 January 2021 15: 10
          -1
          At 9 years old) at 9. I comprehended only at 35
  • DNS-a42
    DNS-a42 30 December 2020 18: 29
    +20
    Banal automation of all processes.
    Or banal de-industrialization?
    The fact is that in the USSR they tried to ensure universal employment.
    Apparently, it was necessary to drive people out into the street. Let them join the ranks of homeless people, bandits, prostitutes, right?
    But there was also a downside - there could not be points of view that would ideologically, socially, conceptually contradict the party's position.
    Now we have a lot of points of view: market-liberal and liberal-market.
    1. paul3390
      paul3390 30 December 2020 19: 02
      +10
      Now we have a lot of points of view: market-liberal and liberal-market.

      Pluralism and complete freedom, vigorous stump ...

    2. your1970
      your1970 3 January 2021 14: 44
      0
      I had a relative, worked at the research institute for 40 years, retired in 1993 ... not a single one of his works was introduced into production in 40 years, not a single one ...
      He received awards, went to a sanatorium, received a dacha ... An ordinary employee of the USSR Research Institute ...
      The efficiency of its work at the output = 0 (zero !!) ....
      But there were no unemployed ...
  • apro
    apro 30 December 2020 18: 33
    +13
    Where to put the minuss ... the author has earned.
    One pearl just blew up ... about accountants ... about engineers. The separation from reality is complete.
  • Nikolay1987
    Nikolay1987 30 December 2020 18: 36
    +11
    Automation is an integral part of progress, that is, if we subjectively consider education separately from the economic structure, it turns out that “progress makes people dumber” (if you follow your logic), although it should free up time for a person to comprehend NEW. And if you follow modern realities, then you look at another entry by Gref, in which he directly says what kind of people the state needs.
    "Bad" education is not a cause, but a consequence of the gradual degradation of the entire state.
    1. Alexander Vorontsov
      30 December 2020 19: 06
      -6
      Quote: Nikolay1987
      "progress makes people dumber" (if you follow your logic)

      Yes.
      It has been a well-known fact for 10 years already for psychiatrists, neurologists and representatives of related specialties.

      Take this topic for example. I gave a link to the scientist and his work.
      Someone interested?
      There are many great books on the impact of the information environment on humans. I brought one of them.
      If someone is interested, I can give other sources.


      for a person to comprehend NEW

      They also asked Bradbury during his lifetime why everything started so well and why it ended this way))

      There is a Yandex requests service. Anyone can see what people are really doing on the Internet)))
      How many people use it to learn how you say something new.
      Well, to draw conclusions about who and what comprehends))
      1. Vasilenko Vladimir
        Vasilenko Vladimir 30 December 2020 19: 19
        +5
        Well, finally APTOR came
        and now explain to me how you, not knowing drawing, can work with CAD programs,
        how not knowing how the profit differs from the sale, you will keep the accounting
        how, without knowing the basics of programming, write a new program even using the "visualizer"? !!!
      2. Nikolay1987
        Nikolay1987 30 December 2020 19: 40
        +2
        You are responding to separate theses in isolation about detailed reasons. How to conduct a dialogue with you ?! With automation in a welfare state, the worker frees up free time WITHOUT loss of earnings (concept), but now? If you are not a subsidized company, you will be "optimized".
        And now you come home optimized, sit down at textbooks from Gref or from the Russian Orthodox Church and read about how to "count money" or measure the area in arshins.
        1. Vasilenko Vladimir
          Vasilenko Vladimir 30 December 2020 19: 56
          0
          in elderberry garden
          You're not the author, what are you responsible for?
          By the way, how can the separation from the reasons allow to work with CAD programs without drawing knowledge?
          Quote: Nikolay1987
          With automation in a welfare state, the worker frees up free time WITHOUT loss of earnings (concept), but now?

          what's the connection
          drawing is studied before hiring and not after dismissal, and according to the author, drawing, as well as many other things, is not needed at all
          1. Nikolay1987
            Nikolay1987 30 December 2020 19: 59
            +2
            Dear, this is not my answer. Look at the up arrow, it shows which post I'm replying to. hi
            1. Vasilenko Vladimir
              Vasilenko Vladimir 30 December 2020 20: 00
              +1
              I ask sorry I was wrong, I apologize and shuffle my foot
  • paul3390
    paul3390 30 December 2020 18: 36
    +16
    Quote: carstorm 11
    And chatter is not our business. We are building a new society, we have no time for chatter.

    I'm sobbing ... Tell this to your beloved guarantor and government. Someone who has the highest rank in chatter, promises and idle chatter ..

    You are not building a new society, you are eating up the remnants of the old Soviet one. You hyenas, gnawing at the body of a dead lion. And when the leftovers run out, your turn will come. For there will be nothing to eat, and you yourself are not fit for hell. And you, in turn, will be devoured by other scavengers.
    1. Ross xnumx
      Ross xnumx 30 December 2020 19: 08
      +3
      Quote: paul3390
      You are not building a new society, you are eating up the remnants of the old Soviet one.

      good yes fellow
      This is the best statement that defines the meaning of today!
    2. carstorm 11
      carstorm 11 30 December 2020 19: 13
      -6
      I have no adorable guarantors. I'm not eating anything. As well as those with whom I work. All countries of any choice have 60+ percent of the working population in employment. In Germany for 70. It's a fact. You can check it anywhere. And it will grow and grow. I don't need to be rude. There were no workers in my family. Since the 18th century, as they settled down in Russia, everyone served. Including me. So that you put your hyena back! And end the tantrum already. Tomorrow is New Year.
      1. paul3390
        paul3390 30 December 2020 19: 50
        +5
        Command here else. I just rushed to execute. Well, you don't like a hyena - want to be a vulture vulture? For your reassurance - I can at least recognize you as a tyrannosaur .. In essence, it will not change in any way ... As for you personally, if you drown with foam at your mouth for the existing regime, then you also eat up .. Let virtual lumps, but the fact is fact .. No matter how sad he is for you.

        And who told you that the situation in the bourgeoisie should be different from ours ?? If your adored government rivets everything at the behest of the West and in its image and likeness? Alas, the situation is not happy everywhere, to put it mildly. But I personally do not care about the West, I am interested in my people and my country ..
        1. carstorm 11
          carstorm 11 30 December 2020 20: 08
          -6
          I do not drown for the regime) I do not care about him. I'm just a realist. I live honestly. Three children. After retiring, he studied and began a new career. How do you start to be rude to me and compare with dinosaurs? Since I don’t accept your truth? I certainly don't owe you and your companions anything. As well as I should not love the USSR. Accept already that your opinion is not the most important and correct one. There are others.
  • tatra
    tatra 30 December 2020 18: 43
    +4
    I have not read the article, "but I condemn", and the title was enough for me. Unfortunately, the enemies of the communists of the older generation who received Soviet education after their seizure of the USSR republics in all of them proved that they were not able to reach the development of Soviet communists and their supporters in any branch of the country. So it's not only about education, but also about mentality, intelligence, and the original abilities of people.
    1. paul3390
      paul3390 30 December 2020 18: 55
      +2
      enemies of the communists

      Tell me - why do you call them that? After all, there is an old excellent definition - enemies of the people?
      1. tatra
        tatra 30 December 2020 19: 04
        +1
        Well, the enemies of the people is not a specific definition of a group of people. And the enemies of the Communists, who go into hysterics when I call them that, this quite specifically defines the category of people.
        1. paul3390
          paul3390 30 December 2020 19: 07
          +9
          Why is there non-specific ?? They are all constantly jostling on TV!

          - Dad, help me write an essay! - What theme? - Enemy of the people. - Write: deputy. - Dad, the essay must have at least 120 words. - Write by surname.
          (C)
  • stalki
    stalki 30 December 2020 18: 47
    +8
    Honestly, I did not even read and will not. I will just note that my wife is a mathematician and in her lyceum some children in grades 5 and 7 do not know the multiplication table. I'll just keep silent about a bunch of everything else. Already wrote earlier in different branches about the current level of development. I don't want to repeat myself.
    1. Ross xnumx
      Ross xnumx 30 December 2020 19: 06
      +4
      Quote: stalki
      Just to note, my wife is a mathematician and in her lyceum some children in grades 5 and 7 do not know the multiplication table.

      yes
      And in stores, some cashiers are surprised how I quickly counted how much change needed to be returned ... It turns out that the current generation of high school graduates are beginning to “float”, performing arithmetic operations with three-digit numbers ...
    2. samarin1969
      samarin1969 30 December 2020 21: 57
      +6
      Quote: stalki
      Honestly, I did not even read and will not. I will just note that my wife is a mathematician and in her lyceum some children in grades 5 and 7 do not know the multiplication table. I'll just keep silent about a bunch of everything else. Already wrote earlier in different branches about the current level of development. I don't want to repeat myself.


      Caliber and Svarog have the legal right to be proud of their grandchildren. But, the "current level of development" is really catastrophically small. And most of the "learners" in school are brain degradation.
      The educational system "Russian", "Soviet", "Gref" is not important here. As a teacher, every day I try to deceive the simple children's "school axioms":
      1) absolutely everyone will receive a certificate;
      2) knowledge has no value;
      3) a lesson is just a harmful time of distraction from gadgets and biological pleasures;
      4) any mental activity has an alternative (write off, buy, "ignore") ...

      The author, with his problem of "drawing", is infinitely far from the abyss of "basic general" and higher education. The reason is very simple. This is TOTAL irresponsibility of children! Imagine that you can sit all day with a beer and a selection of your favorite "entertainments". And you will be guaranteed your salary. If you do something more, you will receive a bonus in the amount of your salary. And if you complete 90% of the official duties, then you will be showered with all possible regalia. This is what the psychology of the modern school looks like. The route "Kholmogory-Moscow" is mastered by less than 1%.

      ps At the same time, I observe how wealthy people send their children to schools abroad with Spartan learning conditions. There are strictly limited "gadgets", pleasure, card balances and time. All this is paid in reasonable amounts in "non-rubles". And it's not Eaton at all.
      Why our children are being turned into Circe pigs is anyone's guess.
      1. stalki
        stalki 30 December 2020 23: 19
        +3
        The reason is very simple. This is TOTAL irresponsibility of children!
        can you make an amendment, colleague, as a former teacher? Let's start with the parents, with their irresponsibility. Children always take an example from adults and control over their children is necessary, as it was in the USSR. At that time, everyone worked for this and the teacher was an authority. And the parents listened, listened and performed. Now, on the contrary, everyone listens to their parents.
        1. your1970
          your1970 3 January 2021 14: 54
          +1
          Quote: stalki
          The reason is very simple. This is TOTAL irresponsibility of children!
          can you make an amendment, colleague, as a former teacher? Let's start with the parents, with their irresponsibility. Children always take an example from adults and control over their children is necessary, as it was in the USSR. At that time, everyone worked for this and the teacher was an authority. And the parents listened, listened and performed. Now, on the contrary, everyone listens to their parents.

          Previously, for hooliganism, any passer-by could twist his ear and complain to his parents ... And now he can get into pedophiles ...
  • Shahno
    Shahno 30 December 2020 18: 50
    0
    It seems that today we have caught the trend correctly ... Not in Russia, in Israel. These are innovations, startups.
  • BAI
    BAI 30 December 2020 18: 54
    +4
    1.
    At the same time, there is a clear trend - most materials have a negative coloration from the series

    "How good it was and how bad it became."

    It really is. I compare my education and the education of my daughter - completely different. But okay, I have technical, my daughter has humanitarian. But the daughter (receives) and the wife have the same education - psychologists. And in Soviet times, at the Orekhovo-Zuevsky Institute (wife) taught better than now at RUDN (daughter). And when they discuss any professional issues, it is clearly visible, even to a non-specialist.
    2.
    Disadvantages of the Soviet education system

    First of all, there is a department of scientific communism. 4 years (history of the CPSU, Marxist-Leninist philosophy, Political Economy and Scientific Communism) - go down the drain. Even in Soviet times. Except for the defense of the dissertation.
    1. BAI
      BAI 30 December 2020 19: 14
      +4
      Part of the comment is lost.
      3.
      Learning from under the stick

      Where is this from? All universities - competition. It was necessary to prove at school the ability to study in grades 9-10, which made it possible to enter a university. Otherwise - in vocational school. But even after vocational school, graduates enjoyed an advantage when entering the plant - VTUZ. And if you have a year of experience after vocational school - then at a university. Quite a lot did this: after the 8th grade - in a vocational school, where it is easy to study (below the requirement), but the red diploma is the same as in school. As a result: vocational school (technical school) (diploma with honors) + experience = benefits for admission to a university. We had 2 such people in our group. It was convenient for the girls - they did not go into the army.
      1. paul3390
        paul3390 30 December 2020 19: 57
        +6
        Quite a lot did this: after the 8th grade - in a vocational school, where it is easy to study (below the requirement), but the red diploma is the same as in school. As a result: vocational school (technical school) (diploma with honors) + experience = benefits for admission to a university

        It was a little different for me - after the 8th grade, I ended up in an evening school and at a factory as a CNC adjuster. The goon was. I worked for several years, got grades, graduated from school. Then - my native Kirov plant, on the recommendation of the brigade, gave me a referral to the Polytech, in the same specialty. I managed to do it. And off we go .. Yes, many then the Soviet government wrote the right kick in the ass ..

        PS Although in fact - I always wanted to be an archaeologist, even went on an expedition until I got married ... crying
      2. your1970
        your1970 3 January 2021 14: 58
        0
        Quote: BAI
        All universities - competition.

        Not in all, not everywhere and not always ... We had 2 people, pedagogues, 0,8 in general, mechanization of agriculture, only at the electrical faculty 1,8, all the rest 1,2
    2. zenion
      zenion 30 December 2020 19: 28
      +1
      And this is precisely what if they learned this and also logic, as in the days of Stalin, then they would not return to the cave system.
    3. Alexander Vorontsov
      30 December 2020 19: 57
      -7
      Quote: BAI
      First of all, there is a department of scientific communism. 4 years (history of the CPSU, Marxist-Leninist philosophy, Political Economy and Scientific Communism) - go down the drain. Even in Soviet times. Except for the defense of the dissertation.

      Mom told a joke from her student past)))
      When a happy Georgian runs out of the party history exam, shines with joy, they ask him - how ?! - not! - Why are you joyful ?! - so the one who handed over with me right there was shot !!
    4. Alexander Vorontsov
      30 December 2020 20: 07
      -7
      Quote: BAI
      And when they discuss any professional issues, it is clearly visible, even to a non-specialist.

      You know what is interesting to me, you can ask your wife a question and write the answer here, really interesting.

      Let's say I don't love a woman. And I want to get a divorce.
      Well, it happens. Love is gone. I don't want children yet.

      The state interferes with private life. Divorces and life outside of marriage are career restrictions.
      Childlessness tax.

      I come to a psychologist in the USSR - this and that. I do not like. I do not want.
      What was the Soviet psychologist supposed to say?
      1. BAI
        BAI 30 December 2020 23: 45
        +2
        As a Soviet one, she would say - you need to keep your family together, as a Russian one - do it as you feel comfortable.
        I really showed her this question.
      2. t-12
        t-12 1 January 2021 23: 55
        0
        ... But the wife is not a mitten:
        You can't shake off a white handle,
        You can't shut up your belt ...
  • Vasilenko Vladimir
    Vasilenko Vladimir 30 December 2020 19: 00
    +3
    decided to read further, the author, if not difficult, tell me where you work? !!
    just such an enchanting nonsense that mom do not cry
    (They do not own accounting. They just know how to interact with the program interface. The algorithm does the rest).

    Thus, the decrease in the number of highly qualified specialists is not the merit of the education system. On the contrary, the education system itself is forced to adapt to the changed relationships. While the true reason for this is the total automation of everything and everyone.
    the result, as they say on the face, is theft, arrears and other delights, if you knew what kind of crap to communicate with these "interfaces" when the slightest deviation from the algorithm leads to the complete shutdown of this "interface"
    automation leads to a reduction in the number of working personnel, but at the same time requires more qualified employees, otherwise all automation will be covered with a copper basin
  • Ross xnumx
    Ross xnumx 30 December 2020 19: 02
    +11
    Direct comparison of the education systems of the USSR and Russia divorced from reality and doesn't make any practical sense.
    Because today the realities are completely different.

    You know what I'll tell you, mister author ... fool
    What's torn off there? If in the USSR I wanted to become an officer, or a pilot, or a surgeon, or an architect, then I studied from childhood, knowing that I LEARNED, I WILL SERVE AN OFFICER, WORK A FLYER, SURGEON OR ARCHITECT !!! My profession was in demand in the national economy in the vastness of the Soviet Union. Today man has no idea how he can earn his living. At school, the pupils of the 8th grade went to industrial practice, got acquainted with the production live, looked closely at the workers and the profession. What is being shown to a young man today? How do successful managers turn a deal and become successful? After that, you will find a lot of people who want to drive railway trains ...
    1. Alexander Vorontsov
      30 December 2020 23: 22
      -4
      Quote: ROSS 42
      What is being shown to a young man today?

      In the West, this topic has already been expressed quite well
      If you don't want your kids to be like Bart Simpson, don't be a parent like Homer Simpson


      How do successful managers turn a deal and become successful?

      Not only.
      For example, I demonstrated the Soviet classics in a post.
      In which, in turn, it was reflected what was shown to the younger generation THEN.

      I WILL SERVE AN OFFICER

      There was little left to do - so that your ideas about the chosen profession correspond to reality. This is now not about you personally, but allegorically ... the problem of finding yourself has been relevant at all times. Do you know Vlasov? A real Soviet man.

      So much for the search for yourself and the difficulties and moral choices ...
  • Givi_49
    Givi_49 30 December 2020 19: 05
    +8
    In the USSR, they taught me so that I could work.
    In Russia, my children were taught nothing, but they turned out to be consumers.
    It is necessary to study in order to understand the world.
    1. Alexander Vorontsov
      30 December 2020 19: 38
      -4
      Quote: Givi_49
      In Russia, my children were taught nothing, but they turned out to be consumers.

      I'm sorry, of course, but what did you teach your children?
      Why did it happen that, based on your words, the state is responsible for what came out of your children ... more than you?
      1. Vasilenko Vladimir
        Vasilenko Vladimir 30 December 2020 19: 58
        +7
        you also don't know the laws of society as the topic you were trying to reveal
        in a closed group, over time, the level of intelligence evens out
        1. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 30 December 2020 21: 57
          +3
          Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
          you also don't know the laws of society as the topic you were trying to reveal

          Ek as you loaded the author. He will not sleep at night if he sincerely tried. But the New Year is on the nose.
          1. Vasilenko Vladimir
            Vasilenko Vladimir 30 December 2020 22: 37
            +3
            still sleep off until January 10
            1. Mordvin 3
              Mordvin 3 30 December 2020 22: 40
              +2
              Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
              still sleep off until January 10

              And there they can extend it.
              1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                Vasilenko Vladimir 30 December 2020 22: 41
                +1
                think the author is still a schoolboy, hence the desire to study some of the subjects?
                1. Mordvin 3
                  Mordvin 3 30 December 2020 22: 43
                  +1
                  Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                  think the author is still a schoolboy

                  No, I do not think so. But the author walked along the tops, not wanting to dig the roots.
                  1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                    Vasilenko Vladimir 30 December 2020 22: 45
                    -1
                    to this topic
                    1912 year:
                    - My dear, I am in indescribable delight! Your literary creation amazed me; it is smart, subtle, graceful, multifaceted, and I am sure that when you read it again it will sparkle with even brighter colors, not to mention the fact that you and it have an amazing, long and happy fate! allanecdots.ru
                    2012 year:
                    - Gee :) +1! Peshy ischo!
                    1. Mordvin 3
                      Mordvin 3 30 December 2020 22: 49
                      -1
                      Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                      - My dear, I am indescribable delight! Your literary creation amazed me; it is smart, subtle, graceful, multifaceted, and I am sure that when you read it again it will sparkle with even brighter colors

                      I do not know who wrote this, but it looks like the creation of citizens from the Institute of Noble Maidens. wink
                    2. Mordvin 3
                      Mordvin 3 30 December 2020 22: 57
                      -1
                      Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                      2012 year:
                      - Gee :) +1! Peshy ischo!

                      Our reality, unfortunately. Personally, I probably write, no matter how fish or meat ... What do I think ...
                    3. your1970
                      your1970 3 January 2021 15: 03
                      -2
                      Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                      to this topic
                      1912 year:
                      - My dear, I am in indescribable delight! Your literary creation amazed me; it is smart, subtle, graceful, multifaceted, and I am sure that when you read it again it will sparkle with even brighter colors, not to mention the fact that you and it have an amazing, long and happy fate! allanecdots.ru
                      2012 year:
                      - Gee :) +1! Peshy ischo!

                      In general, those who would have written like this in 1912 - those who wrote: "I do not read it, but I condemn it !!!"
                      1. your1970
                        your1970 3 January 2021 17: 06
                        -2
                        Naked arithmetic - 20 years in 1912 - child - in the 50-60s he was from 40 to 50 years
                2. Svarog
                  Svarog 1 January 2021 22: 47
                  +2
                  Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                  think the author is still a schoolboy, hence the desire to study some of the subjects?

                  I think so hi
      2. Nikolay1987
        Nikolay1987 30 December 2020 20: 08
        +3
        Why did it happen that, based on your words, the state is responsible for what came out of your children]

        "It is impossible to live in society and be FREE from society" (c)
      3. Givi_49
        Givi_49 30 December 2020 23: 26
        +2
        Why do you need this. It's about education in the country.
  • Iskazi
    Iskazi 30 December 2020 19: 14
    +5
    The author bears an open blizzard ... but the question itself is more than relevant. The author's thoughts are naive and ridiculous, the drawing example is very unfortunate, the issue of universal employment is the main issue of ANY State, regardless of the system, but the solution to this issue may vary, there are many issues to the Soviet system, but they are completely solvable. in the Western system, too, not everything is clear. Much depends on the goals of the System and Society, so outside the analysis of values ​​and goals, this opus is meaningless to consider
    1. Nikolay1987
      Nikolay1987 30 December 2020 20: 16
      0
      I agree. Without criteria, this is sheer demagoguery.
    2. your1970
      your1970 3 January 2021 17: 09
      -2
      Quote: Iskazi
      There are many questions to the Soviet system, but they are quite solvable.

      Not solvable - the KGB did not notice the enemies, the Ministry of Internal Affairs did not cope with the hucksters, the army turned aside, the people simply remained silent ...
  • nikvic46
    nikvic46 30 December 2020 19: 20
    -1
    Here it is worth arguing. Another thing, one has the right to argue, and the other has already received the right to act. If you do not plan, then the current generations will eat up all the main things, leaving nothing for the future. But that's not all. A person should not suffer from these innovations. ... Let the West rush to its destruction. Otherwise, such progress cannot be called. We will learn from our own and others’s mistakes.
  • zenion
    zenion 30 December 2020 19: 26
    0
    The author, have you ever seen a product that you would like to buy? The author buys what the market has to offer, not what customers have ordered. Nobody listens to buyers. And if they don't buy, they will raise energy prices. And you will pay wherever you go. It is worth raising the price by 20 kopecks per liter of gasoline, as prices rise by tens of rubles.
  • Alecsandr
    Alecsandr 30 December 2020 19: 28
    +3
    The worst thing is to read fewer books. Previously, using a slide rule, they flew to the moon and created supersonic airliners. And now all the achievements based on old developments, as they say, rest on the shoulders of the Titans.
    1. your1970
      your1970 3 January 2021 15: 06
      0
      Quote: Alecsandr
      The worst thing is to read fewer books.

      Try to read a book you liked in the 70s - but you haven't read it ...
      They seem boring and slow
  • Radikal
    Radikal 30 December 2020 19: 30
    +3
    Quote: Stroporez
    It seemed to me alone that the article is from the category in the elderberry garden ..?

    No, not one .... hi
  • Radikal
    Radikal 30 December 2020 19: 33
    +6
    Quote: paul3390
    Why is there non-specific ?? They are all constantly jostling on TV!

    - Dad, help me write an essay! - What theme? - Enemy of the people. - Write: deputy. - Dad, the essay must have at least 120 words. - Write by surname.
    (C)

    laughing good Respect! hi
  • tasha
    tasha 30 December 2020 19: 48
    +1
    It probably makes sense to wait for the continuation and then finally assess the material. But the first impression is some kind of porridge ...
  • rocket757
    rocket757 30 December 2020 20: 03
    0
    A direct comparison of the educational systems of the USSR and Russia is divorced from reality and has no practical meaning.

    Education, one of the aspects of the ruling SYSTEM, it sets all the parameters of the educational process exactly as it needs ...
    The same thing happened during the period of the USSR.
    These SYSTEMS are antagonists, of course everything else will be the same.
    You just need to UNDERSTAND that the system will bend ITS, what it needs, not paying attention to anything!
    And now the question - Does it make sense to discuss this if it is impossible to change while THIS system exists ??? Maybe you should do something else, more important, more realistic?
    1. Alexander Vorontsov
      30 December 2020 20: 29
      -5
      Quote: rocket757
      Education, one of the aspects of the ruling SYSTEM, it sets all the parameters of the educational process exactly as it needs ...

      This is a popular point of view.
      But let's say you decide to download a free application to communicate with foreigners who are starting to learn Russian. And for 500 rudders buy a simple French course. And start learning.

      You think someone from the presidential administration will come to you and say - Victor, you are registered as a loader. You are doing something wrong. You are not allowed.
      Will it happen like this?
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 30 December 2020 21: 47
        0
        Quote: Alexander Vorontsov
        ....................... Will this happen?

        Is that what you really want to ask me about?
        Should I answer these ....... questions?
        Not interesting .... primitive.
        By the way, I don’t put any minuses, I’ll correct it a bit .... and so, I remind you what the level of treatment is, you get the corresponding answer.
        1. Alexander Vorontsov
          30 December 2020 22: 02
          -2
          Quote: rocket757
          Is that what you really want to ask me about?

          Well, you wanted me to write your previous post.
          In my opinion, there is an obvious distortion in it - following your logic, if you do what is described, the state will be obliged to intervene in order to regulate the process exactly as it needs.

          This is generally very convenient. I do not use the opportunity to learn a language or learn to play a musical instrument, not because I play tanks or watch TV shows in the evening, but because the state decided so.
          The Internet cuts me off every time I try to find smart things. He builds intrigues.

          The state forces people to waste time on aimless consumption of various digital garbage, instead of doing something useful and developing.
          What questions can there be. Everything is very convenient. I am your tz. got it.
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 30 December 2020 22: 46
            +1
            Quote: Alexander Vorontsov
            What questions can there be. Everything is very convenient. I am your tz. got it.

            Just made sure, very primitive ... because it's so convenient.
            PS It's not worth thinking out for others, the right questions should be asked.
      2. Mordvin 3
        Mordvin 3 30 December 2020 22: 09
        +1
        Quote: Alexander Vorontsov
        And for 500 rudders buy a simple French course. And start learning.

        You think someone from the presidential administration will come to you and say - Victor, you are registered as a loader. You are doing something wrong. You are not allowed.
        Will it happen like this?

        No, they will simply reduce the salary by 500 rubles so that they do not suffer from any nonsense.
        1. rocket757
          rocket757 30 December 2020 22: 49
          +1
          So self-education is worthwhile. It's not a pity to spend on such a thing.
          1. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 30 December 2020 22: 51
            +1
            Quote: rocket757
            It's not a pity to spend on such a thing.

            I am not sorry, you are not sorry, but we are breaking the plans of the top by this occupation.
            1. rocket757
              rocket757 30 December 2020 22: 59
              0
              Quote: Mordvin 3
              We break the plans of the top by this occupation.

              Not everything is so simple ... although, if we proceed from the definition that a shoemaker should make boots, and a pastry bake cakes, and everything turns out to be SELF-EMPLOYED, the top ones do not need to rack their brains with ensuring employment of the population, everything is in business.
              And the truth for the SYSTEM is a scrappy if everyone does everything he needs himself. This is how many jobs need to be created!
              1. Mordvin 3
                Mordvin 3 30 December 2020 23: 03
                0
                Quote: rocket757
                And the truth for the SYSTEM is a scrappy if everyone does everything he needs himself.

                And they know how to balabol with language. Also an interesting activity. Forgot what kind of orator in ancient Rome with stones in his mouth trained to push speech?
                1. rocket757
                  rocket757 30 December 2020 23: 15
                  0
                  There are not so many speakers of the Demosthenes class, and who listens to those speeches .... everything has slipped from art to plebeianism.
  • Ryaruav
    Ryaruav 30 December 2020 20: 18
    +2
    if the article contains a downshiver-gref person who is not educated who got his appointment thanks to the work in the Sobchak team a gang of half-educated lawyers what do you want in the Russian Federation
    1. tasha
      tasha 30 December 2020 20: 23
      0
      The spelling "DownshiFter" is used more often. And yes, "THANKS TO WORK".
      With commas, I have problems too. Holiday greetings! wink
      1. Ryaruav
        Ryaruav 30 December 2020 20: 33
        +3
        taskha i said scent sorry for the commas ,,,,,, with the coming of all the best
  • nikvic46
    nikvic46 30 December 2020 20: 19
    -1
    I think that this article is a direct advertisement for Sberbank's projects, and nothing else.
  • aybolyt678
    aybolyt678 30 December 2020 20: 24
    +3
    So what has impacted the labor market so much? Banal automation of all processes.
    author, go to shopping supermarkets! if at least 30% of the goods were Russian, then 50% of today's managers would be engineers for CNC machines and other human substitutes.
    1. Alexander Vorontsov
      30 December 2020 21: 18
      -5
      Quote: aybolyt678
      So what has impacted the labor market so much? Banal automation of all processes.
      author, go to shopping supermarkets! if at least 30% of the goods were Russian, then 50% of today's managers would be engineers for CNC machines and other human substitutes.

      And in the article I wrote why today 50% of goods are not domestic.
      The service sector did not develop "lpanovo".

      Here above, people scornfully wrote about modern professions from the service sector, a master of manicures.
      And for the "girl who paints nails" the whole industry. Who creates nail polishes? New lipsticks? Who studies the medical aspects of cosmetic procedures?
      Who is the technologist at the plant that produces all this?
      Who manufactures the shut-off valves in the factory?
      Who implements the control system? Who writes engineering software?

      What was the primary reason for the absence of a girl with scissors in the USSR? The planned economy and the education system resulting from it.
      1. aybolyt678
        aybolyt678 30 December 2020 21: 46
        0
        Quote: Alexander Vorontsov
        What was the primary reason for the absence of a girl with scissors in the USSR? The planned economy and the education system resulting from it.

        There was a war "For the minds and hearts of people" as they said then, now they say Cold ... In it, the ideologues of the CPSU conserved the past. The world was changing dramatically, but the approach to analysis remained at the level of the beginning of the century. throwing the level of consciousness of people back a century. Hence the loss of landmarks. The upper echelons had everything and were not actually engaged in the planned economy ... The main thing is that the figures in the reports are huge.
        In a planned economy, there are no diseases of Capitalism. The guarantee of accelerated development is that progress is not due to competition, but due to the introduction of really advanced scientific achievements. It is not the planned system that is really to blame, but the lack of a system of training and selection of leaders, as well as punishment and shooting of the unfit and guilty.
        Today, with political will and digitalization, you can easily build a society that will break out into Space, the trouble is that very few people need Space, girls with nails are needed ... In principle, they are also needed for Space, this does not need to be opposed, but you need to understand that the resources of the Earth are finite and Capitalism will kill Humanity
        1. Alexander Vorontsov
          30 December 2020 22: 27
          -1
          Quote: aybolyt678
          the trouble is that very few people need Space, we need girls with nails ...

          That's it!
          Everything is correct. You said it yourself.
          Who needs them? To the people themselves. People themselves need a house-2.
          People themselves prefer to use satellites to transfer gigabytes of pornography, instead of colonizing other worlds, as Soviet science fiction writers dreamed.


          and due to the introduction of really advanced scientific achievements

          Well, the creation of a Dolby Digital surround sound system - why not the introduction of advanced achievements? The most difficult engineering task, creating an acoustic space.
          The music needs to be recorded, saved, converted, played back, and then decorated with the entire scene taking into account the geometry of space and materials.

          Or creating good hiking gear, developing new sole materials and fabrics.

          How do you implement all this in the USSR? There is no need for a Soviet person to be divided into cheap equipment and expensive ones. One model of a jacket will be enough for everyone. 1 backpack model. 1 primus. 1 portable electric cooker.


          By the way, auto tourism was popular in the USSR at one time. All boys love cars. And thousands of Soviet men spent hours coming up with different homemade products to improve the same cars and make them more suitable for auto tourism.
          Those. and enthusiasm was and people were ... but. It is impossible for people to personalize their transport.


          And in the USA a whole industry grew up at that time.
          NitroGir custom-made gears, main pairs and CV joints for off-road tuning.
          And those who want to pump their UAZ in Russia know that the best main pairs are in the USA.

          The ARB company makes some of the best power bumpers.
          Kungi. Mobile homes.

          I brought a video in the subject where it says that the implementation system did not work in the USSR precisely because of socialism. Didn't allow socialism to introduce anything.

          For example, they built a supersonic passenger plane. But in the west there were people who were willing to pay 5 times more to fly 2 times faster.
          And in the USSR there were no such people. By the fact that "socialism".
          As a result, the liner was unprofitable.
          What will you implement in such conditions? This is partly why many valuable cadres rushed over the hill at the first opportunity.
          And not only because of trivial money, people just wanted to realize themselves as specialists ... they were interested, for example, in computer effects, but in Russia they did not do it)) But they did it in the USA.
          1. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 30 December 2020 23: 20
            0
            Quote: Alexander Vorontsov
            There is no need for a Soviet person to be divided into cheap equipment and expensive ones. One model of a jacket will be enough for everyone. 1 backpack model. 1 primus. 1 portable electric cooker.

            Don't write nonsense. One model! laughing Only the hotplates were a bunch of models. Like jackets. As well as backpacks. Like other goods.
            1. Alexander Vorontsov
              30 December 2020 23: 31
              -1
              Quote: mordvin xnumx
              Quote: Alexander Vorontsov
              There is no need for a Soviet person to be divided into cheap equipment and expensive ones. One model of a jacket will be enough for everyone. 1 backpack model. 1 primus. 1 portable electric cooker.

              Don't write nonsense. One model! laughing Only the hotplates were a bunch of models. Like jackets. As well as backpacks. Like other goods.

              Ask the smarter ones to explain the meaning of the word "exaggeration". Then you can understand the possibilities a little more))) Happy New Year)
              1. Mordvin 3
                Mordvin 3 30 December 2020 23: 33
                -1
                Quote: Alexander Vorontsov
                Ask the smarter ones to explain the meaning of the word "exaggeration". Then the possibilities can understand a little more

                They made fun ... Prove it by example.
              2. Mordvin 3
                Mordvin 3 30 December 2020 23: 48
                0
                Quote: Alexander Vorontsov
                Ask the smarter ones to explain the meaning of the word "exaggeration".

                Quote: Mordvin 3
                Prove with an example.

                That's it ... Balabolka, then?
          2. aybolyt678
            aybolyt678 31 December 2020 06: 29
            +2
            thanks for the concretization of the point of view .... Okay, I understand it .. Something similar was suggested by the reformers of Perestroika - like socialism is to blame, the market will settle everything (as Marx bequeathed laughing )
            Quote: Alexander Vorontsov
            The people themselves need a home-2
            you know, in the 40-50s of the last century, a worker or an engineer, having relieved himself, would hardly envy a good treadmill of his descendants, he would rather twist his finger at his temple laughing - we are lazy, we replace real life with its surrogate (gigabytes of pornography smile , house 2) live communication began to strain - it is easier to give a bouquet in classmates than fresh flowers to a woman (I have children, I can see it) - and I will say that a person concerned about one problem - how else to have fun, example Goals where to go?
            Nowadays not consumers determine what should be on the shelves and the advertising industry creates needs, a person simply does not have enough imagination to want something else (for me, for example, PSP is air). Needs are shaped by the information field of our society.
            And the technology market that you offer, in the absence of which you blame socialism, is absent even under today's capitalism laughing in our country ... precisely because of the free market. The financial system of the Central Bank, thus, regulates exchange rates, which is easier to buy abroad than to produce at home. Our science washed its hands .... now it cannot predict even 5 years ahead .... Although the West has projected everything 2 generations ahead (for example, Syrian migrants in Germany in a couple of generations are unlikely to feel ashamed of Hitler). It’s not life that develops quickly; we are degrading. That is why you just need a good education, a correct forecast of development, and most importantly a goal.
            Happiness is a sense of Perspective. the word perspective from the Latin lane (through, through, and spectio - to look) to look into the distance. You cannot develop without a normal forecast of the future !!
          3. nedgen
            nedgen 31 December 2020 21: 27
            +2
            Well, the author is your main postulate and so clear. Everything in the USSR was bad because there was no capitalism. This means that the education system is the worst. And the fact that it is copied in the most elite schools in Britain now does not matter. (Here are dumb scoops British then)
            About not being able to introduce a new one into production in the USSR. Yes this is so BUT this applies to the period AFTER 1955. And before that in the period 1935-1955 it was not so. And in the private (then called cooperative) sector of the USSR, more than 5 million people worked. Search and read. The real problem of socialism was precisely in the absence of a system for the selection and appointment of leading personnel, and NOT in the planned economy as you are trying to imagine. And look for the reason for the economic rise of Japan after 1945 and now China. I will answer so as not to complicate. In Japan, the introduction of planning in the market economy despite the fact that capitalism. And in China there is a planned economy with the introduction of market elements. Those. not capitalism itself but a market economy. So your own postulate that "the planned system of the economy is to blame for everything" is NOT TRUE in PRINCIPLE. hi
            1. your1970
              your1970 3 January 2021 15: 36
              0
              Quote: nedgen
              Yes this is so BUT this applies to the period AFTER 1955. And before that in the period 1935-1955 it was not so. And in the private (then called cooperative) sector of the USSR, more than 5 million people worked. Search and read. True the problem of socialism was precisely in the absence of a system for the selection and appointment of leading personnel, and NOT in planned economy as you try to imagine

              That is, it turns out in your opinion - that everything depends on the leader / leader / general secretary - Stalin was gone and socialism ended? And then the leaders who came to power were all bad?
              Nice system, yeah ... Not capable of self-healing ...
          4. t-12
            t-12 2 January 2021 00: 07
            +2
            People themselves need a house-2.
            Television, like other types of media, serves the interests of the ruling class and fulfills its tasks. "Dom-2" is shown not because "people need it", but because it helps the ruling class to rule the entire society.

            Otherwise, you can end up with a complete nonsense, like the assertion that "Deutsche Wochenschau" was needed by "the people themselves."
            1. your1970
              your1970 3 January 2021 15: 39
              0
              Quote: t-12
              Television, like other types of media, serves the interests of the ruling class and fulfills its tasks.

              "IN"- classic Whom does a licensed media serve?
  • Peaceful SEO
    Peaceful SEO 30 December 2020 20: 43
    +1
    Quote: paul3390
    The stump is clear - comparing education in the USSR and the Russian Federation is meaningless. The USSR definitely did not need wild hordes of lawyers, such as economists, marketers, managers and other, other mold. And what was needed was workers, scientists, engineers, doctors, teachers, and so on. Creators. For in such a huge country - by definition, there should not be enough workers, there will be enough work for centuries to come. Unless, of course, to deal with the good of the country and the people, and not to fill bottomless pockets.

    As for the general employment in the Union - there is a feeling that it is now trying to attach all the unemployed somewhere, creating absurd jobs. Like guards and loafers with them. Well this is necessary - hundreds of thousands of healthy men are sitting there guarding .. And who really doesn’t need anyone, and where needed - there from time immemorial grandmother sat, the button to call the cops if she pressed Th ..

    And so - almost everywhere. There is a stormy and ebullient imitation of useful activities throughout the country. In all spheres and areas. But in reality - a complete zilch .. A huge bunch of people stupidly kicks the bulldozer. Catching up on blatant crap. Creatives, vigorous ..

    And this bunch of people was directly forced to kick the bulldozer and guard, don't understand what?
    1. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 30 December 2020 22: 14
      -1
      Quote: Peaceful SEO
      And this bunch of people was directly forced to kick the bulldozer and guard, don't understand what?

      Imagine yes. When it becomes easier to wipe your pants than to work hard and be responsible for something for a similar salary.
  • aybolyt678
    aybolyt678 30 December 2020 20: 43
    +2
    A direct comparison of the educational systems of the USSR and Russia is divorced from reality and has no practical meaning.

    it depends on which periods to compare laughing ,
    education is a state task arising from the development goals of the state (not declared but real), hence the gap - as between the declaration and reality. If the Goal is not worth it, then the Path disappears into a misty haze ...
  • tasha
    tasha 30 December 2020 20: 59
    0
    Author, at the beginning of the article you made, it seemed, a huge mistake. You did not specify what claims to the education system are in question. I think that there can be two complaints: "HOW is it prepared or WHO is being prepared" ... So, most often we are talking about the quality of education. Monetizing training leads to the release of trashy specialists, regardless of profile. Paid - get it. The paysite will be pulled to the last.
    Your article, this is my impression - an explanation of the obvious things. Yes, professions are withering away, and in this context you are right: "A direct comparison of the educational systems of the USSR and Russia is divorced from reality and has no practical meaning."
  • bubalik
    bubalik 30 December 2020 21: 11
    +4
    A. Azimov "Profession"
    ... And who creates educational feeds? Tape specialists? Who then creates the tapes to teach them? Higher qualifications? And who creates the tapes ... You know what I want to say. There must be an end somewhere. Somewhere there must be men and women capable of independent thinking

    Plot:
    “Machine education, with all its merits, deprives a person of a creative approach to the profession, drowns out the ability to think independently and improve oneself.
    ,,, he is one of the few earthlings who have retained the ability for independent thinking and education, and they learn from books in order to try to come to new inventions and discoveries, and advance scientific and technological progress.
    1. Alexander Vorontsov
      30 December 2020 22: 30
      -1
      Quote: bubalik
      A. Azimov "Profession"
      ... And who creates educational feeds? Tape specialists? Who then creates the tapes to teach them? Higher qualifications? And who creates the tapes ... You know what I want to say. There must be an end somewhere. Somewhere there must be men and women capable of independent thinking

      Plot:
      “Machine education, with all its merits, deprives a person of a creative approach to the profession, drowns out the ability to think independently and improve oneself.
      ,,, he is one of the few earthlings who have retained the ability for independent thinking and education, and they learn from books in order to try to come to new inventions and discoveries, and advance scientific and technological progress.

      Oh yeah!
      Many people forget that entrepreneurship in the USSR was a criminal offense.
      On the question of independence of thought, the ability to take responsibility for oneself, to think independently, having come up with something that others did not invent ... there was an article for this.
      1. Mordvin 3
        Mordvin 3 30 December 2020 22: 37
        +1
        Quote: Alexander Vorontsov
        Oh yeah!
        Many people forget that entrepreneurship in the USSR was a criminal offense.

        And again they lied. The USSR was different.
      2. nedgen
        nedgen 3 January 2021 19: 18
        -1
        Oh yeah!
        Many people forget that entrepreneurship in the USSR was a criminal offense.
        On the question of independence of thought, the ability to take responsibility for oneself, to think independently, having come up with something that others did not invent ... there was an article for this.

        You, too, forget that criminal liability appeared only after 1956. And it is beneficial for you to forget such things as, for example, the fact that even during the Second World War, NOT ONE Sudaev's submachine gun (PPS) was produced at the STATE factories of the USSR. All 2.5 million submachine guns were made in PRIVATE cooperatives and 10% of ALL AMMO AND MORTAR MINES were made there too. And the first TV set in the USSR was also delivered by private cooperation, etc. So, before 1956, entrepreneurship WAS NOT banned. It was forbidden by Khrushchov. Until 1955, the activities of resellers, private bankers, private plant owners, etc. were prohibited. dependents and drones who DO NOT PRODUCE ANYTHING but make money from the labor of others. hi
  • iouris
    iouris 30 December 2020 22: 22
    +2
    Quote: "A mass study of the same drawing in school will not open up the prospects for children that were in the 1950s." End of quote.
    There are no prospects.
    The development of thinking (and thinking) is one of the tasks of the school. "The same drawing" develops thinking.
    In addition, the school's task is to educate a citizen. This task is also not worth it. What is the "bottom line"? And this hell knows him.
  • sleeve
    sleeve 31 December 2020 05: 00
    +1
    The article correctly raised the problem in the pedagogy of the present moment. The argumentation of the comparative basis of the two systems is also correctly selected. There will be nothing to cover. Exceptions when examined in depth will confirm the rule.
  • evgen1221
    evgen1221 31 December 2020 07: 11
    -1
    The question is, of course, an interesting one. My opinion is to partially introduce the Japanese approach. Namely, secondary schools and where the children of the enterprise from will compete to lure students into their structure to fill their vacancies, with social packages, housing, a guarantee of employment and salary. At the same time, parasitism should be heavily fined so that there are people for grassroots jobs. Plus, he treats foreign gasterbayters harshly.
    Wrote perhaps chaotically, but who cares, look at least on YouTube for a brief summary of the basics of Japanese economic development, there is sure to be about their professional education. Naturally, their attendance and cramming is overkill, of course. Let the personnel train themselves, how many and what they need, and will be flexible according to the needs here and now to train and retrain professions.
  • parusnik
    parusnik 31 December 2020 07: 39
    +2
    You should always strive for something bigger and better.
    ... My nephew graduated from the Polytechnic University. Received an engineering degree. He completed an internship, received positive reviews. There is no diploma work. He completed courses on repairing refrigerators. institute, so many years. Everything is perplexed. And the coolest thing is that none of the classmates in their specialty works. Who is where, some of the salesmen went.
  • cniza
    cniza 31 December 2020 09: 12
    -1
    A direct comparison of the educational systems of the USSR and Russia is divorced from reality and has no practical meaning.


    It is always necessary to compare, otherwise why this article, only everyone will have their own truth, but find the truth ... We were young in the USSR, so everything was better, in my opinion this is the main reason ...
    1. iouris
      iouris 31 December 2020 12: 25
      +1
      Quote: cniza
      We were young in the USSR, so everything was better

      This is a subjective point of view, taste. Objectively: the state is a complex, i.e. great system. No goal, no system. While the USSR had the goal of existence and was moving towards the goal, all systems (subsystems) functioned expediently. The author did not identify the purpose. Nobody has specified a target. How can aimless subsystems function? They self-destruct. Finita la comedy.
  • DrEng527
    DrEng527 31 December 2020 13: 22
    -3
    much that is true has been noted by the author!
  • RVAPatriot
    RVAPatriot 31 December 2020 17: 37
    +1
    Article ---------, as always, everything was bad with us, but how we will do it in the USA, it will be immediately good ... Soviet education was considered the best in the world !!! And it counts !!!
  • nikant
    nikant 1 January 2021 10: 17
    +3
    this article is a simple chatter about real problems in secondary and higher education ... and what is gref? have found a patriot who has long been an enemy ... shall we turn on our brains?
  • Selevc
    Selevc 1 January 2021 11: 42
    +1
    The author of the article either "fell from an oak tree" or flew from Mars !!! It's not a secret for anyone that the quality of education is judged by the number of literate specialists in all sectors of the economy !!! And now the products of the "90s and 00s" epoch are visible at their workplaces, so to speak !!!

    The modern education system is very active in breeding crooked-handed, mediocre, swindlers and also people who openly and brazenly parasitize at work !!! And the Soviet system (also not ideal) brought up whole generations of specialists - people with advanced and progressive thinking for their era. People who have a flexible, and not a standard mind - those who can do everything in life - "both a reaper and a shvets and a player on a pipe ...". This is now completely lost.

    Today's trend in life (which by the way came to the masses from the top) - Why invent something if you can just buy it !!! So we don't invent, but in the USSR they invented !!! You can compare the scientific and technical achievements of the USSR and the Russian Federation for a couple of decades, and the answer to the question of who was taught better will be obvious !!!
    1. Selevc
      Selevc 1 January 2021 12: 21
      +1
      The author of the article apparently belongs to that degrading caste of the Russian Federation - and their degradation lies in the fact that they are rolling into the abyss and do not understand it themselves !!!

      But they do not understand because formally everything seems to be in order !!! They will solve any problem with finances - they will solve it !!! But only formally !!! And in the West this has long been understood and for 40 years they have been actively transforming the basis of the former USSR from a country that created everything itself into a country that buys needles and garlic in China !!!
  • Amur
    Amur 1 January 2021 16: 42
    +1
    The author in most of the article did not talk about education in the USSR, but about how bad life was there and what was not.
    Another defective article of a person cut off from the reality and realities of the USSR.
  • t-12
    t-12 2 January 2021 00: 28
    +1
    Well, let's say the author is right. Suppose that out of 50 engineers, 40 can be fired, that 10 engineers, due to magic automation, will perform the same tasks.

    Question: where is the Russian industry? Where are the creations of these remaining engineers? After all, they must do the same work as the former 50. This means that there must be an automobile industry, aircraft building, machine tool building, at least the same as they were in Soviet times, when there were 50 engineers.

    So where are the results?
  • Artunis
    Artunis 2 January 2021 11: 47
    +1
    Well, a very controversial article ...... Any C grade student of the Soviet education system had an order of magnitude more knowledge than a modern excellent student! And no one can convince me that knowledge at school should be given only on a voluntary basis - this is stupidity, to say the least. After high school, but only on a voluntary basis, a person is already more or less formed and must make an informed choice.
  • Vladimir1155
    Vladimir1155 2 January 2021 12: 58
    +2
    the study of the respected Alexander Vorontsov is interesting but incomplete, 1 firstly, the author's mistake ... there was a premium segment in the USSR, and it has always been. The seagull car was much better than a Rolls-Royce, it was wider and longer and at the time of design it overtook all foreign cars, engineering ideas were used and it was beautiful, moreover, the zil chistovozka was even more premium and so in everything. 2 author's mistake. Regarding general employment and general education, even a primitive person can be useful for a good master (Stalin), and even talented people are not in demand for a bad one (capitalist). 3 the author is clearly poisoned by Western lisping ped. methods, they do not work, there was no study "out of hand" in the USSR (the author writes a lie), but there were some methods of compulsion to study, and this is correct ....... there were problems in Soviet education, but not listed by the author , and first of all 1 Darwinism and atheism imposed by the school, false teachings ... 2.Good program, teaching a little bit of everything and descriptive, ... 3 and finally raising a slave without the ability to think independently (by the way, this is also a reason, weak will learn to obey, the strong in spirit will turn a deaf ear and get their C). All these problems persist in the modern school and are present in all world education.
  • Podvodnik
    Podvodnik 3 January 2021 19: 51
    +1
    (They do not own accounting. They just know how to interact with the program interface. The algorithm does the rest).


    Yeah, myself. Just press the button.

    Either Gref buries the accounting department, then Medvedev.

    My wife starts to laugh at such conclusions. She pays salaries for schools and kindergartens (joint accounting).

    Where did the author get these conclusions? Where did he spy on or guess himself? In short: Delirium of a gray mare on a bright moonless night.
    1C itself cannot do anything. From the word at all. She's not capable of anything out of the box. Anyone who works with 1C will confirm my words. After the purchase, you need to hire a programmer and customize everything for the specific tasks of the organization. In two neighboring stores, for example, completely different 1C.
    Not a single programmer can collect 1C for a salary, because he does not understand a damn thing about accounting.
    And who will enter the data into this same 1C? Algorithm? Himself? The number of days worked, substitutions, substitutions, vacations, sick leave, staff records? What algorithm will be able to take into account all legislative acts and payment procedures, sometimes mutually exclusive? Constantly incoming letters and instructions for payments and transfers according to articles, etc.?

    Dear author, come down from heaven to earth. After coming to the workplace of such "those who know how to interact with the interface", you have to rake the jambs left after their quick escape for a painfully long time and put things in order.
  • Rostislav
    Rostislav 5 January 2021 11: 50
    0
    In reality, the education system does not exist in a vacuum and does not at all determine the real needs of the labor market. On the contrary, it is the labor market that creates demand and dictates conditions.

    The substitution of concepts begins from the first lines. Instead of discussing the QUALITY of teaching, the author quickly switches to changing the list of disciplines studied at school. Naturally, they had to change and they changed along with the changes in the surrounding world.
    The article is a good example of demagoguery and the old truth - it is not the one who is right that wins the dispute, but the one who knows how to argue better.
  • koramax81
    koramax81 8 January 2021 23: 30
    -1
    For once a normal view of education. Thank you
  • victor_5
    victor_5 27 January 2021 13: 25
    0
    I always thought it was a wild thing to pay for education. And the quality of education, what should be the motivation for a major to get it, if he can buy it. For example, high-ranking government officials. Besides, Soviet education was competitive.