Military Review

"Russia must forget about the ocean fleet": Polish observer about the "obsolescence" of the Navy

184

Russia has design bureaus for the design of large ships, there are shipyards for their construction and experienced sailors who can set adequate requirements for shipbuilders. Despite this, for 20 years, the Navy did not have any new aircraft carriers, or cruisers and destroyers.


Obsolescence of the Navy


This opinion was expressed by a columnist for the Polish edition of Defense24. The publication notes that in the coming years the fleet can only count on receiving new pennants no larger than a frigate. As a result, large warships are expected to become even more obsolete and lose their military significance, and not to conduct real operations far from their bases of deployment.

According to the expert, reconstruction is theoretically possible fleet, if huge funds are allocated for it, but this is practically unrealistic due to the growing needs of the other branches of the Russian armed forces.

While naval powers such as the United States and China are systematically introducing new destroyers and building large expeditionary ships, in Russia the last destroyer ("Admiral Chabanenko") was commissioned in 1999.

- the author writes, pointing out that 5 out of 12 built ships of the "Fregat" class have already been disabled, out of 17 pennants of the "Sarych" class only one is in operation.



Mysterious fleet modernization


The mysterious term "renewal combined with modernization" is intended to become a propaganda salvation for the Russians [...] Russian media in most cases do not signal to the public about the virtual disappearance of such classes of ships as destroyers or cruisers in Russia

- writes the columnist, discussing the deep modernization of several pennants.

According to him, the Navy uses four cruisers - three Atlanta and one Orlan, which "do not have the same capabilities as, for example, American destroyers such as Arleigh Burke or the older Ticonderoga cruisers."

The problem [of the rapidly aging fleet] is probably money and the necessary equipment

- the author believes, believing that the number of cruisers and destroyers will decrease every year.

So the Russians will have to abandon their plans to create an ocean-going fleet for now, as well as rewrite their operational doctrine, relying on much smaller units - the maximum class of frigates

- in the Polish edition.

As they believe, in these conditions, "Russia should forget about the ocean-going fleet." At the same time, propagandists are creating a noisy campaign designed to hide the real state of affairs from the public. However, for some reason, the expert himself ignores the underwater component of the Navy, which is far from the last value - if only because a number of submarines are carriers of ICBMs.
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  1. Odysseus
    Odysseus 28 December 2020 05: 47
    +25
    Maybe Russia should forget about the ocean-going fleet, but at least not to Polish puppets to talk about it. Let them first acquire political subjectivity, or at least build their own fleet, and then think about others.
    1. Tatyana
      Tatyana 28 December 2020 05: 55
      +4
      The problem [of the rapidly aging fleet] is probably money and the necessary equipment
      - the author believes, believing that the number of cruisers and destroyers will decrease every year.

      Our oligarchs would have to reduce their own appetites - then you would have looked at the defense of the Russian Federation to create more warships in the country!
      1. Civil
        Civil 28 December 2020 07: 38
        +6
        Quote: Tatiana
        Our oligarchs would reduce their own appetites


        They forgot to ask us ...
        1. Stas157
          Stas157 28 December 2020 08: 14
          +12
          . in 20 years in the Navy did not appear no new aircraft carriers, no cruisers and destroyers

          What for? Numerous Urya-patriots throw up their hats when the boat descends.

          ... for some reason the expert ignores underwater component Navy

          Will corvettes cover the underwater component in the future?
          1. hydrox
            hydrox 28 December 2020 10: 50
            +7
            Interestingly, when was it that the strategic nuclear submarines on patrol were covered with something? Clown cap, or what? laughing
            So there are a dozen of these devices in the Russian fleets today, and the same number will appear by the year 25 - quite enough to turn ALL our enemies into radioactive ash from one total salvo today. request
            And reading various illiterate iksperdov from filthy countries, hundreds of years have not sniffed the concept of "victory in war" on the one hand is immoral, on the other - leads to defective thinking and degradation of brain activity.
            1. Stas157
              Stas157 28 December 2020 11: 00
              +11
              Quote: hydrox
              Interesting, and when it was that the strategic nuclear submarines on patrol were covered with something? Clown cap, or what?

              Do you think that going out on patrol, and the patrol itself, shouldn't be covered or something? And, yes, now it's overwhelming. For obvious reasons.
              1. Every
                Every 28 December 2020 15: 58
                +5
                Quote: Stas157
                Quote: hydrox
                Interesting, and when it was that the strategic nuclear submarines on patrol were covered with something? Clown cap, or what?

                Do you think that going out on patrol, and the patrol itself, shouldn't be covered or something? And, yes, now it's overwhelming. For obvious reasons.

                The exit from the bases and the deployment must be covered by all means. And then you yourself. Try to find a missile submarine in the Pacific Ocean. This is not a Baltic puddle, where at one end of the p ... t, and at the other you can hear, and not the locked Black Sea.
                And how to cover in the North? Carrying aircraft carriers and destroyers across ice floes?
                1. Stas157
                  Stas157 28 December 2020 16: 32
                  +15
                  Quote: Every
                  And how to cover in the North?

                  And what does the Arctic Arctic have to do with it, are there AUGs surfing there? Not anywhere else.
                  1. Every
                    Every 29 December 2020 08: 28
                    +1
                    Do we have many such places? The main patrol zones of strategic missile carriers are the Pacific and Arctic oceans. And they should not be covered by surface ships, but by nuclear submarines. "Ash" is perfect for this, and preferably two.
      2. bayard
        bayard 28 December 2020 07: 54
        +4
        Quote: Tatiana
        Our oligarchs would have to reduce their own appetites - then you would look denyushki on defense

        Peskov said that they want to build Russia, as under Nicholas II ... (he really ended badly and became famous as a small boy) ...
        So if you want, as with that unfortunate tsar, you would have adopted the custom of building a fleet at the expense of rich and very wealthy citizens - it was a very good custom.
        And voluntary.
        And the rich man had something to be proud of, and the Motherland grew by the Fleet ...
        Nikolai is really all about ... whistled shorter.
        But if such a whim is in our power (as under Nicholas), then let them throw a cry.
        And let the oligarchs compete in the construction of ships.
        A frigate from a billionaire from the top 20, and the fleet is ready (along with the existing one).
        And the state corporations, which are pulling more and more pipes to nowhere, let them build a cruiser (12 tons. 000 KR in UKSK on 80 gas turbines M-4FR / FRU. smile
        And let the largest Russian regions build on the 22350M type destroyer.
        And let Ros-Atom build a series of aircraft carriers, but not nuclear ones, but a gas turbine one for 45-000 tons of VI, so as not to ruin itself or the state.
        And everything will be fair.
        As under Nicholas-2. yes
        And a Country with a Fleet. smile
        And the Fleet with ships. yes
        And the oligarchs are held in high esteem. hi
        And state corporations in business. bully
        Patronage must be taken over the Fleet.
        Patronage.
        Build ships from extra-budgetary funds and be proud of THIS.
        Then the People will forgive them and the yachts.

        And this, by the way, will not be too expensive for them, because the construction cycle lasts several years and the cost will be paid in parts. It's like a mortgage. wink
        $ 500 million for 22350 or 600 - 650 million dollars. for 22350M, the Russian region (rich) will cost 100 - 110 million dollars. in year. within 5 - 6 years.
        And for this you just have to cut the salaries of officials, or reduce their number.
        And that's it.
        or simply officials will have to voluntarily transfer part of their salaries to the needs of the Navy on a monthly basis.
        It's even better.
        Officials will begin to bring some benefit from PERSONAL funds, and will be proud of it.
        And then the People, perhaps, will be able to forgive them.
        And again there will be a consensus of the People and the authorities.
        bully
        1. Alexander Galaktionov
          Alexander Galaktionov 28 December 2020 08: 03
          +3
          Reindeer - the mayor of Moscow cannot give money to modernize the GRK Moscow, although the richest region
          1. fone
            fone 2 January 2021 06: 29
            0
            It's time to write off the cruiser, he has already outlived his. No upgrade will fix the layout.
          2. bayard
            bayard 6 January 2021 04: 54
            0
            To force, change, arrest himself and the property of all relatives - enough for the squadron.
            In Saudi Arabia, they acted simply - they gathered all the princes of the billionaires in one gym, kicked them, and those, showing responsibility and "civic initiative" generously shared for the needs of the state.
            Repression is the best medicine for the snickering "boyars".
        2. koramax81
          koramax81 6 January 2021 01: 01
          -1
          In order not to be unfounded, please throw off the link where Peskov said this, otherwise as with the meme about "no money, but you hold on" Medvedev - everyone knows about him, but no one has heard
          1. bayard
            bayard 6 January 2021 05: 10
            0
            YouTube and Google will help you - watch, listen, enjoy.
            After all, it was shown on TV smile , through the central channels. yes
            You go and talk about GALOSHI, which in the Soviet Union only knew how to do, did not hear?
            From the lips of the guarantor of the pension reform and the "man of his word"?
            1. koramax81
              koramax81 7 January 2021 01: 21
              -1
              Keep these cheap answers for yourself. If you cannot answer for your words, be silent.
      3. andrewkor
        andrewkor 28 December 2020 09: 15
        +5
        Here, here, Yachts for the price of a cruiser are cool!
        1. hydrox
          hydrox 28 December 2020 11: 01
          +5
          These scoundrels could be partially forgiven for this, if the thieves built their yachts at Russian shipyards and at least partially returned the stolen goods to the budget of the Russian Federation.
          It would also be nice to include in the same package of laws a tax on movable property in the amount of half the cost of this toy.
          But VVP will not do this, he does not read the wishes of the people - there is no such media in Russia - "Wishes to the authorities and popular aspirations" laughing
      4. Odysseus
        Odysseus 28 December 2020 11: 07
        +4
        Quote: Tatiana
        Our oligarchs would have to reduce their own appetites - then you would have looked at the defense of the Russian Federation to create more warships in the country!

        This is, of course, a correct observation. But it's too abstract. Oligarchs are oligarchs, so as not to moderate their own appetites. It's like a proposal - a wolf, but turn into a hare.
        And then, frankly, we allocate money for defense at the very least. So if additional money and resources appear, it is more logical to invest them in production, housing and communal services, health care, education, increasing the minimum wage, etc., and so on.
        The twenty-fifth fleet is next in line.
      5. d1975
        d1975 28 December 2020 22: 35
        -1
        What are you talking about! It is necessary to plant, but not, all around are our own !!! Yes, let's throw in at least an aircraft carrier! There is no one to blame in the system. love
        1. koramax81
          koramax81 6 January 2021 01: 04
          -1
          In order to plant, you must first conduct an investigation, prove ... or are you just populism? And if you are imprisoned without investigation only on denunciations - then where is the guarantee that tomorrow you will not sit. In the 30s already passed, thanks
          1. d1975
            d1975 11 January 2021 21: 53
            0
            Stole a chicken for 3 years, stole 100000 rubles. does not work well, needs to be corrected)))) What populism. I'm not here for the title, I see how the site really merges. hurray yelling brains do not need much. Tell me, what should be done to ensure order in the country? Do you have an answer for ordinary people with a regular salary and pension?
    2. Vladimir_2U
      Vladimir_2U 28 December 2020 05: 59
      +22
      But in general, the Pole is right, unfortunately.
      1. bistrov.
        bistrov. 28 December 2020 06: 33
        +8
        Quote: Vladimir_2U
        in general, the Pole is right,

        In modern conditions, it makes no sense to spend money building expensive cruisers. And their operation is much more expensive than the same frigates, and their combat capabilities are already equal. In addition, large surface ships are an excellent target for modern anti-ship missiles. I don't see what the "Pole is right" about.
        1. Vladimir_2U
          Vladimir_2U 28 December 2020 06: 34
          +3
          Quote: bistrov.
          And their operation is much more expensive.

          What, right on the order? The order is from ten times, actually.
        2. Nazar
          Nazar 28 December 2020 07: 27
          +9
          bistrov. - Colleague, what do you propose to cover the exit of submarine missile carriers to the launch areas? Karakurt or Raptors?
          After all, stupid people - Chinese, Americans, Japanese - rivet dozens of destroyers and do not realize that "large surface ships for modern anti-ship missiles are an excellent target", they should not be so, but maybe now they will read your comment and come to their senses. fellow
          There is money in Russia for yachts that are not inferior in size and cost to cruisers (Sechin, Mordashov and others), there is no money for cruisers and destroyers, and therefore there is only one thing left, to convince ourselves and others that “I didn't really want to” - like grandfather Krylov about the fox and grapes:

          Though he sees the eye,
          Yes, tooth noumet.

          Having made it through the whole hour,
          She went and said annoyed: "Well then!
          At a glance, he is good,
          Yes, green - no mature berries:
          Immediately you will nag off. "
        3. Antidote
          Antidote 28 December 2020 07: 27
          +5
          Apparently this is why there are so many different projects of manatees, leaders and other wunderwaffles
          1. hydrox
            hydrox 28 December 2020 11: 08
            -2
            The pshekach is right about one thing: The more Burkov and Ticonderogo hang out on the seas, the more pleasure our pilots will experience, drowning these troughs and receiving awards, stars and positions.
            1. timokhin-aa
              timokhin-aa 28 December 2020 11: 38
              +11
              Very interesting. And what kind of pilots will sink, for example, Ticonderoga in the West Fjord? What kind of aviation units are there that can be involved in a naval war? Are there any anti-ship missiles so that they could be fired from the "edge" of the enemy's radar field?
              1. hydrox
                hydrox 28 December 2020 12: 25
                -2
                For those who are "under" ...
                Didn't get enough of it, don't shake.
                Our naval doctrine IS STILL DEFENSIVE, so only the underage can carry out mental experiments with air missile attacks on foreign fleets at the bases on their territories and do not pose a threat to Russia.
                At the same time, only correspondents with a characteristic eye-lift to their temples will neglect the air defense equipment used in the protection of the air production of such bases.
                Yes, even schoolchildren. laughing
                1. hydrox
                  hydrox 28 December 2020 20: 10
                  0
                  I completely forgot to add the filthy liberda ... laughing
                  Sorry, it happened by accident
            2. hydrox
              hydrox 28 December 2020 12: 33
              -1
              I completely forgot to mention the main thing: No synopsis and textbook give the kind of experience that is obtained in an attack carried out independently and successfully with a competently conducted withdrawal and without losses.
              1. hydrox
                hydrox 28 December 2020 20: 13
                -4
                And here the liberda is already minus the Charter!
                Halle, moderators: if you let the liberda behave like that, then the competent authorities may be interested in this question ...
        4. d1975
          d1975 28 December 2020 22: 36
          +3
          Is the Pole even in the subject? He's no analyst.
          1. hydrox
            hydrox 29 December 2020 06: 09
            -1
            What else do you want from the Baltic states?
            Common sense?
            So you will never wait for it from the population living on the shores of the Baltic Sea: they have hungry food, and in the water several elements from the table are not enough (the miser Mendeleev regretted his elements for the Non-Balts, laughing ).
            And we will bring Russian drinking water there ...
      2. Odysseus
        Odysseus 28 December 2020 10: 59
        +5
        Quote: Vladimir_2U
        But in general, the Pole is right, unfortunately.

        In fact, of course, he is right. But also, in essence, this state is a consequence of the socio-economic policy pursued since the mid-80s. Let's listen to the compassionate Pole and correct the mistake.
        The Russian Federation will turn into the USSR, and Poland into the Poland (under which, by the way, where there was a much stronger fleet than now).
        But will the wisest Polish expert who tells us about the problems with the fleet be happy about such a transformation? smile
      3. Sling cutter
        Sling cutter 28 December 2020 11: 55
        +5
        Quote: Vladimir_2U
        But in general, the Pole is right, unfortunately.

        I agree and thanks for the common comment. hi
    3. Lipchanin
      Lipchanin 28 December 2020 06: 02
      +2
      Quote: Odyssey
      Let them first acquire political subjectivity

      Deprive them of EU subsidies. Deprive them of handouts because of a puddle, they will not have an army at all, or a fleet
      They live in debt, but they still stink
      1. andrewkor
        andrewkor 28 December 2020 09: 17
        0
        Didn't understand why you have disadvantages?
        1. Lipchanin
          Lipchanin 28 December 2020 09: 57
          -1
          Quote: andrewkor
          Didn't understand why you have disadvantages?

          I don't know myself. How they broke off the chain, minus everything without reading
      2. Cosm22
        Cosm22 28 December 2020 09: 30
        +6
        In debt, it means they live ...
        So that I live like this.
        Since the official minimum wage in Poland from January 1, 2020 is 2 zlotys per month (600 green American rubles).
        About the minimum wage and Russia will not remember, so as not to disgrace?
        1. Lipchanin
          Lipchanin 28 December 2020 09: 58
          -8
          Quote: Cosm22
          So that I live like this.

          Collect credits and live
          1. Cosm22
            Cosm22 28 December 2020 10: 29
            +12
            Yes, in fact, this is how most of the inhabitants of Russia live.
            Even in the relatively prosperous year 2019, according to Elena Danilova, director of the Central Bank's stability department, more than half of working Russians (54% of the number of people employed in the economy) had loans (almost 40 million people). Last year, Russians raised 7 trillion rubles ($ 106 billion) in loans. Even the Russian media are full of reports that in fact every second Russian family lives in debt.
            But even in the presence of all these factors, the size of the minimum wage for some reason cannot creep up to the Polish level.
            1. Lipchanin
              Lipchanin 28 December 2020 10: 35
              -4
              Quote: Cosm22
              But even in the presence of all these factors, the size of the minimum wage for some reason cannot creep up to the Polish level.

              That's just why the salary is big
              That's just how much they have left after all payments for the same communal apartment.
              1. Cosm22
                Cosm22 28 December 2020 11: 22
                +7
                I can reassure you: last year, a Polish family of three living in an apartment of 40 square meters spent 490 zlotys (142 dollars) on utilities. With an average salary in the country for 2020, PLN 5 per month ($ 331,47).
                Could you give the data for Russia for comparison? Or not worth it? 
                1. Vadim237
                  Vadim237 28 December 2020 18: 15
                  -3
                  Their average salary is the same in the media as ours is 45000 rubles in the country - you'd better give the cost of food and everything else in Poland - and these salaries in dollars do not say anything at all.
              2. Sling cutter
                Sling cutter 28 December 2020 12: 07
                +9
                Quote: Lipchanin
                That's just why the salary is big
                That's just how much they have left after all payments for the same communal apartment.

                TV deceives you, Poland has long been ahead of the Russian Federation in all indicators of the population's standard of living.
                1. Boris Chernikov
                  Boris Chernikov 28 December 2020 16: 52
                  -5
                  and that is why they live on handouts from Brussels?
                  1. Sling cutter
                    Sling cutter 28 December 2020 17: 48
                    +4
                    Quote: Boris Chernikov
                    and that is why they live on handouts from Brussels?

                    Honestly, I'm starting to get tired of human stupidity. what the hell are you, the difference is who lives on what handouts, if you live an order of magnitude worse ..
                    1. Vadim237
                      Vadim237 28 December 2020 18: 20
                      -4
                      Russia lives within its means - and not in debt like all other countries, but all loans will eventually have to be repaid. Russia, the same in debt, lived all 90s on IMF loans to which it led everyone knows. Living in Russia is worse - but obviously not by an order of magnitude, but two or three times, and even then not all.
                      1. Sling cutter
                        Sling cutter 28 December 2020 21: 05
                        +6
                        Quote: Vadim237
                        Living in Russia is worse - but obviously not by an order of magnitude, but two or three times, and even then not all.

                        Comment of the day !!!
                    2. Boris Chernikov
                      Boris Chernikov 28 December 2020 18: 42
                      -5
                      Well, if for you an achievement to live shooting at the store "top ten to get drunk", then this is your choice, and the Polish "miracle" is 12% of the budget in the form of subsidies every year from Brussels ... in other words, if tomorrow Brussels will disconnect them from financing to the Poles it will be very sad .. and yes .. I, in principle, purple on them) hi
                      1. Sling cutter
                        Sling cutter 28 December 2020 21: 06
                        +3
                        Quote: Boris Chernikov
                        .and yes .. I, in principle, purple on them)

                        a pineapple?
                      2. Boris Chernikov
                        Boris Chernikov 28 December 2020 23: 16
                        -3
                        laughing do I need to compare myself with Polish beggars?
  2. Pravodel
    Pravodel 28 December 2020 06: 58
    +1
    at least not to Polish puppets to talk about it

    You don’t understand ... The Poles meant that Russia should transfer all its fleet to Poland, because Poland is a great maritime power - "from mozha to mozha ..", while Russia is a regional power, a gas station that does not need a fleet at all ... That is the main question here.
  3. tihonmarine
    tihonmarine 28 December 2020 09: 22
    0
    Quote: Odyssey
    Maybe Russia should forget about the ocean-going fleet, but at least not to Polish puppets to talk about it.

    Poland should not forget what kind of "sea power" it was in 1940, and forget about entering the Baltic Sea.
  4. white.eagle
    white.eagle 28 December 2020 15: 27
    +1
    and why the fleet in the Baltic? Combat aircraft and missile launchers onshore - thus Poland can effectively fight in the Baltic Sea.
  5. Boris Chernikov
    Boris Chernikov 28 December 2020 16: 50
    -3
    but what is the point in the "ocean fleet" if all the graters are always close to the coast? and yes ... the 22350M will have more TLU than the US destroyers ... but it will also be called a frigate ...
  6. RealPilot
    RealPilot 29 December 2020 12: 31
    0
    But with a greater probability, after another mess on the continent, Russia will forget about the existence of Poland request
  • Cananecat
    Cananecat 28 December 2020 05: 50
    0
    Russia, as a ra, has everything in order with memory, unlike Poland ...
  • serg.shishkov2015
    serg.shishkov2015 28 December 2020 05: 54
    +2
    Another attempt to remind you of your existence. they are afraid to say that to their owners. The dog barks, the caravan is coming!
    1. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 28 December 2020 09: 26
      +1
      Quote: serg.shishkov2015
      Another attempt to remind you of your existence. they are afraid to say that to their owners.

      And do not forget whose ports are Gdynia, Gdansk, Szczecin. The Germans have not forgotten about this and remember.
      1. hydrox
        hydrox 28 December 2020 11: 28
        0
        That's when, in 10 years, Russia will undertake "equalization of potentials" (redrawing the map), then it will be necessary to draw the border between the GDR (or as it will be called) and the Kaliningrad enclave along the line Slupsk-Pila and Pila-Bialystok (further to Belarus), and Gdansk, too, will have to be given to Russia (Poland still has nothing to handle (and the people will scatter, as funding from the EU will be closed))
      2. Sergej1972
        Sergej1972 28 December 2020 20: 00
        0
        And how is this "not forgotten?" SPD or CDU / CSU declare this? The statements of all the others have no practical significance.
        1. tihonmarine
          tihonmarine 28 December 2020 20: 23
          +1
          Quote: Sergej1972
          And how is this "not forgotten?"

          Yes, the fact is that those 15 million Germans and their descendants did not forget how they were evicted from Prussia and Pomerania by the Poles, they still remember, and not the different SPD and CSU there.
          1. Sergej1972
            Sergej1972 28 December 2020 20: 33
            0
            The SPD and the CDU / CSU are precisely the forces that make all decisions in the FRG. 4 million Germans were evicted from Poland. 15, or rather 14 million Germans - this is the total number of Germans evicted from the territories of Poland, Czechoslovakia, the countries of Eastern and Southern Europe and our Kaliningrad region of the RSFSR and the Klaipeda region of the Lithuanian SSR.
          2. Galleon
            Galleon 29 December 2020 10: 51
            0
            The Germans, the surviving old Germans, remember their eviction from their homes, but they have no thoughts to return there, no desire for revenge or revenge - I say from the words of a friend who more than once talked and visited with such a German from Pomerania. I was specifically interested.
            Therefore, even in case of need, it will be rather difficult to play such a revanchism card in Germany: people have freed themselves from this. Not everyone is capable of living offended 70-80 years.
            1. tihonmarine
              tihonmarine 29 December 2020 12: 50
              0
              Quote: Galleon
              The Germans, the surviving old Germans, remember their eviction from their homes, but they have no thoughts of returning there, no desire for revenge or revenge - I speak from the words of a friend

              Maybe the young people got used to it, but at the end of the 60s I worked at a shipyard in Rostock, then the Germans born in the 20s directly said, "The USSR had Konigsberg as a trophy, but we will never forgive the Poles for Prussia and Pomerania."
  • Lech from Android.
    Lech from Android. 28 December 2020 05: 55
    +1
    Many articles are about the death of our ocean-going sea fleet ... what the actual state is really difficult to say ... there is no generalized and officially confirmed material about this. what
  • Pessimist22
    Pessimist22 28 December 2020 05: 58
    0
    But we have a fleet of billionaire yachts, while the Poles and billionaires do not laughing
    1. andrewkor
      andrewkor 28 December 2020 09: 19
      +1
      I compensated you for the minus. People really hurt their eyes!
      1. Pessimist22
        Pessimist22 29 December 2020 19: 28
        0
        Thanks, but for me the cons are not important, the main thing is I can write what I think.
    2. Xnumx vis
      Xnumx vis 28 December 2020 09: 23
      +3
      Quote: Pessimist22
      But we have a fleet of billionaire yachts, while the Poles and billionaires do not laughing

      The Polish version of Forbes magazine has published a list of the 100 richest Poles.

      The top 10 richest Polish businessmen, according to the publication, are as follows:

      1. Sebastian and Dominika Kulczyk. Their fortune is 3,6 billion euros. Sphere of interests - infrastructure, industry, raw materials.



      They appear on the list for the first time and immediately come first. These are the children of the richest Pole Jan Kulczyk, who died on July 29, 2015. According to the magazine, Kulczyk the father did not leave anything to chance and four years ago he began the procedure of handing over the business to his children.

      2. Zygmunt Solozh-Jacques. Condition - 2,3 billion euros. Sphere of interests - finance, media, communications. Better known as the founder of Telewizja Polsat, which unites more than 20 TV channels of various directions.



      3. Michal Solovov. Condition - 2,1 billion euros. Chemical industry, building materials. https://bykvu.com/ru/bukvy/23462-forbes-nazval-samykh-bogatykh-biznesmenov-polshi/
      1. Sergej1972
        Sergej1972 28 December 2020 20: 01
        +1
        Mikhail Solovov. A strange name for a Pole.)
        1. Pessimist22
          Pessimist22 29 December 2020 19: 27
          +1
          Poverty Pole, 5 lard for three smile
  • armannu
    armannu 28 December 2020 05: 58
    +9
    Does anyone other than the United States have a cruiser?
    For example - in Poland? wink
    1. Lipchanin
      Lipchanin 28 December 2020 06: 05
      -5
      Quote: armannu
      Does anyone other than the United States have a cruiser?

      Here will give zaluzhniki decommissioned cruiser pshekam and goodbye "hyena of Europe" laughing
  • Proton
    Proton 28 December 2020 05: 59
    +12
    Talking about the Russian Navy and not mentioning the submarine fleet is, of course, the deepest analytics!
    It is not so important what they think of us, the main thing is not to forget about ourselves.
    1. lis-ik
      lis-ik 28 December 2020 06: 27
      +9
      Quote: Proton
      Talking about the Russian Navy and not mentioning the submarine fleet is, of course, the deepest analytics!
      It is not so important what they think of us, the main thing is not to forget about ourselves.

      Because the article discussed the state of the surface fleet with which it is really bad. By the way, multipurpose submarines are also not very good.
      1. Proton
        Proton 28 December 2020 06: 36
        +6
        I partially agree with you.
        But the fleet is a whole organism and I think it is not correct to separate one from the other.
        How can you talk about an elephant, seeing only its trunk? request (parable of the six blind sages).
      2. Crimean partisan 1974
        Crimean partisan 1974 28 December 2020 09: 35
        0
        Because the article discussed the state of the surface fleet with which it is really bad ... what is bad ... well, tell me how many icebreakers there are ... on the fingers of one hand ... but here it is all the same it is NORTH ATLANTIC .... in short, they do not have icebreakers ... and the zone of interests of the Russian Federation is just the Arctic Ocean ... and everything is fine there .... what's the point of driving squadrons across the Pacific and Atlantic ... all the same to attack anyone they do not intend ... but Arctic is their own ... it is necessary to preserve it and patrol it ... at the Pacific Fleet, too, everything is enough to watch the Kuriles, at the KCHF, too, all the rules, at the KBF along the way, there is no tension either
        By the way, with multipurpose submarines, it's not very good either ......... well, and that is quite enough to turn the Western world into dust ... especially the continental Yars, and Poplars will add robustness
    2. Nazar
      Nazar 28 December 2020 07: 31
      +1
      Proton - the submarine fleet will not be able to leave the base without cover by surface ships.
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 28 December 2020 18: 23
        0
        The Boreys have anti-torpedo protection NK package and torpedoes for self-defense, they can go out and launch missiles even from the coast in case of anything.
        1. Nazar
          Nazar 28 December 2020 20: 00
          +1
          Vadim237 - "Boreyev has anti-torpedo protection" - do they have anti-mine protection? And what protection against depth charges?
          "They can launch rockets even from the shore" - they can launch without departing from the pier, but the question is, why then a submarine? out of the mine and safer and more reliable.
          The base, with everything that is there, will crash in the first place, because the submarine missile carrier must be on duty in the calculated area, and the exit to this area should be covered by surface ships and naval aviation ... if they exist, of course. But with this we are not all right. The Pole with her article has nothing to do with it - these issues have long been known without him - they have been discussed right there on the VO how many times.
  • bukhach
    bukhach 28 December 2020 05: 59
    +6
    The Pole spoke out something rather weak, only the navy spoke out, but what about aviation or armored vehicles did not give out anything, well, they don’t fly there, they don’t go here, everything is rusty and dilapidated and the Russians have lost their truncated, and their public has neither sleep nor spirit- Serves them right, the aggressors. And, indeed, the nuclear submarine is it not an ocean-going fleet, is it a coastal one?
  • Dynamic systems
    Dynamic systems 28 December 2020 06: 01
    -1
    Polish owners have a super iron wassat (Wooden shame: US Navy Zumwalt prodigy broke on its first campaign crying lol ) and for avik for 15 lard will not go in any way ... Yes, a lot more ... sockets for 900 bucks ... Poles for the "roof" or just bark ... Look at the owners in ..opu. hi
    1. Antidote
      Antidote 28 December 2020 07: 35
      +7
      What's with the Arktika engine? Redoubt taught in air defense? Free "barrier"?
      Why do you always want to find problems there without solving your own?
      1. Eugene-Eugene
        28 December 2020 18: 15
        +1
        And what is the free barrier?
  • Sergey Kulikov_3
    Sergey Kulikov_3 28 December 2020 06: 05
    +3
    Well, now the Poles can sail the oceans on their cruisers without regard to the presence of the Russian fleet. With which I congratulate them :)
  • faiver
    faiver 28 December 2020 06: 08
    +5
    The fact that Russia really has problems with the surface fleet is a reality, but why should she be afraid to forget about the ocean-going fleet? We, like a thread, will figure out what to remember and what not ... hi
    1. Karen Khoreev
      Karen Khoreev 28 December 2020 16: 39
      +1
      And also, Russia has terrible problems with heavy cavalry ... And with light, too ...
      Ugliness...
  • Mykhalych
    Mykhalych 28 December 2020 06: 09
    +3
    Having in the Navy as many as 3 (!) Submarines, one of which is under permanent repair, and the second is being written off this year, and seven ships plus one minesweeper give advice and rant about what is appropriate for Russia - NOT SMART.
  • Yura
    Yura 28 December 2020 06: 15
    +1
    For some reason, this Pole thinks that if an American aircraft carrier would fight for Poland, he would better clean his brains from moss, dust, mold and snot, and thought that Poland, in the event of their irrepressible Russophobic policy, could, will and would not be threatened by ships. Navy, and not even barges and rafts with Club-K containers. The most terrible weapon against Poland is the Poles, like this warrior.
  • KCA
    KCA 28 December 2020 06: 22
    +6
    The opinion of an expert from the great maritime power of Pshekia is extremely important to us, because the basis of its fleet is the decommissioned pelvis of the United States and Norway, please give us more objective materials from such experts, otherwise the leadership of our country does not know what to do and what to do
  • rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 28 December 2020 06: 24
    +1
    Only the Poles and talk about the ocean-going fleet. How can you not insert a hairpin of Russia, and even without having its own normal fleet, but arguing obviously from the "height" of NATO. Russia itself knows its weak points and takes measures to strengthen them, in contrast to the small ones sitting on EU subsidies, but actively criticizing them. The same berry field with the Ukrainians, who do not have anything at all, also actively criticize the Russian fleet and even threaten to destroy it.
  • Andrei from Chelyabinsk
    Andrei from Chelyabinsk 28 December 2020 06: 26
    +8
    At the same time, propagandists are creating a noisy campaign designed to hide the real state of affairs from the public.

    That's for sure ...
    However, the expert himself for some reason ignores the underwater component of the Navy, which is far from the last value.

    Do we have any big successes there?
    1. Crimean partisan 1974
      Crimean partisan 1974 28 December 2020 09: 55
      -4
      And what, do we have some big successes there? ..... yes ... exactly where there is interest ... this is the Arctic Ocean ..... and then the Russian Federation is ahead of the planet .... how many Here are icebreakers !!! once or twice and miscalculated ... but not a single nuclear one ... so if you count how many icebreakers there are in the Russian Federation, it is difficult. there are so many of them ... so why should the Russian Federation ferment in a swarm across the Pacific or Atlantic ... there is a goal and there are tasks to be the master in the Arctic Ocean ... everything is according to plan
      1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 28 December 2020 10: 10
        +9
        Quote: Crimean partisan 1974
        there is a goal and there are tasks to be the master in the SLO ... everything is according to plan

        laughing
        Very funny.
        Let it be known to you that it is NATO (more precisely, American) nuclear submarines that regularly go under the ice, regularly conducting combat exercises with real torpedo launches. We are not, and, alas, there are great doubts that in such conditions our torpedoes will generally work as expected. So if there are masters in the Arctic, it is not us. And yes, I am ashamed to ask - why, do we have goals and objectives to control at least the Barents Sea? And the Pacific Fleet - how is it, in which case all ships will go to the Northern Sea Route to defend? There are no other tasks before him?
        I urge you to think at least a little about what you write
        1. Crimean partisan 1974
          Crimean partisan 1974 28 December 2020 10: 26
          -4
          "You need to think a little about what you are writing" ..... I don’t write, I’m typing .... or rather, I am setting out the information in printed text .... let's go
          "regularly conducting combat exercises with real torpedo launches." ... yeah ... these are the striped nuclear submarines that just got stuck in the ice ... great ... keep it that way ...
          "with real launches of torpedoes. We are not, and, alas, there are great doubts that in such conditions our torpedoes will work at all" .... but the missiles are great to fly to Kura and back. with torpedoes, then everything is fine
          "So if there are masters in the Arctic, then it's not us." ....... well, not us ... just for some reason, military transport Il-76 so often became frequent on Wrangel Island .... and here the Hercules are not visible there during the day with fire
          "And the Pacific Fleet - how is it, in which case all the ships will go to the Northern Sea Route to defend? There are no other tasks before it?" ....... The Pacific Fleet has the task of the Kuril Islands and the Sea of ​​Okhotsk to keep watch in the light of recent events Seiners are pulled to the places of fiscalation ... and the KSF itself copes with its tasks ... and according to the information, it is so weighty
          1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
            Andrei from Chelyabinsk 28 December 2020 10: 52
            +3
            Quote: Crimean partisan 1974
            ... yeah ... these are the striped nuclear submarines that just got stuck in the ice ... great ... keep it up ...

            Now - this is when? :)))) In 2018? And what is the tragedy?
            There Hartford floated up to launch a missile strike. The technology is not simple, and if you don't have enough experience, you can be wrong. These are the norms for combat training - they learn from mistakes.
            By the way, the second nuclear submarine "fired" successfully
            Quote: Crimean partisan 1974
            ... but the rockets are great to fly to Kourou and back. with torpedoes, then everything is fine

            What missiles do you fly into the Kura? :)))) I remind you that SSBNs are not intended for shelling the Kuru, Antei 949A do not carry sea-to-ground missiles, and the only PLAT with which it was theoretically possible to bang a "grenade" will obviously have other tasks.
            And I am glad that everything is fine with your torpedoes. I bring to your attention that the Russian Navy is far from being so rosy with torpedoes
            Quote: Crimean partisan 1974
            ...... well, not us ... just for some reason, military transport Il-76 so often became frequent on Wrangel Island ... but Hercules are not visible there during the day with fire

            The presence of Hercules there would be a little strange - the island, in fact, de facto belongs to the Russian Federation. But what relation about Wrangel has to the control of the AO - I will not even ask.
            Quote: Crimean partisan 1974
            the Pacific Fleet has the task of the Kuril Islands and the Sea of ​​Okhotsk to keep watch in the light of recent events

            And how many icebreakers are there for the American Navy?
            Quote: Crimean partisan 1974
            Therefore, while behind the nostrils, Japanese seiners are pulling to the places of fiscalation

            While the Japanese submarines unnoticed patrol the entrance to the Avachin bay, where we have SSBNs ...
            Quote: Crimean partisan 1974
            and the KSF itself copes with its tasks ... and according to the information it is very important

            If you mean the information obtained during a spiritualistic session of communication with the Martians - perhaps.
            1. Crimean partisan 1974
              Crimean partisan 1974 28 December 2020 11: 25
              -1
              "I remind you that SSBNs are not intended for shelling the Kuru", .... 24.08.2019/2019/08 Sea-based missiles "Sineva" and "Bulava" ". According to the RF Ministry of Defense, the launches were made on August 24 in accordance with the combat training plan. According to the source, the missiles were fired from the strategic missile submarine "Tula" and from the strategic missile submarine "Yuri Dolgoruky" from the polar region of the Arctic Ocean and from the Barents Sea. “Mass and size dummies of missile warheads completed the full cycle of the flight program and successfully hit training targets at the Chizha training grounds in the Arkhangelsk region and the Kura range on the Kamchatka Peninsula,” the Russian Defense Ministry said in a statement ..... here, either I'm lying or the Ministry Defense of the Russian Federation ... decide for yourself
              "Antei 949A do not carry sea-to-ground missiles," ..... Voschet anti-ship missiles Granites and Onyxes on the ground can work. but the main task is to destroy the AUG .... project 949 is not an SSBN, nevertheless, a pair of Granites or Onyx warheads in a salvo of 24 anti-ship missiles carries a tactical nuclear charge ...
              “But what relation does it have about Wrangel to the control of the AO - I will not even ask." because the Northern Sea Route is controlled thanks to O. Wrangel ... or rather, by those who dug in there ...
              "While the Japanese submarines unnoticed patrol the entrance to the Avachinskaya bay, where we have SSBNs .." .... and this nonsense is laid out for what !!!! if you know how to reason on the basis of the performance characteristics of diesel submarines, then you will come to an unambiguous answer that diesel-electric submarines pass a maximum of 400 miles under water, and the snorkel is used only in neutral waters or under the cover of your support ships ... now take a map and measure how much from Japona to the Wasp's Nest .... don't muddle people's heads.
              ... If you mean the information obtained during a spiritualistic session of communication with the Martians - perhaps ..... in this case, I will offer you a reliable way
              1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                Andrei from Chelyabinsk 28 December 2020 11: 44
                +6
                Quote: Crimean partisan 1974
                24.08.2019 Sea-based missiles "Sineva" and "Bulava" 2019-08-24, Russia has successfully launched the sea-based ballistic missiles "Sineva" and "Bulava".

                Actually, I assumed you were referring to the Japanese Kure. The fact that our SSBNs can fire ICBMs over long distances has nothing to do with the dominance of the fleet in the Arctic Ocean.
                Quote: Crimean partisan 1974
                waxes PKR Granites and Onyxes on the ground can work.

                And what does this have to do with dominance in the Arctic Ocean?
                Quote: Crimean partisan 1974
                .young man and no need to ask. because the Northern Sea Route is controlled thanks to O. Wrangel ... or rather, by those who dug in there ...

                Sit down, deuce. Firstly, the Northern Sea Route did not fall sideways to anyone except us, to defend what no one is going to attack is strong. Secondly, the task of our units on Wrangel is radar control and guidance of aviation. They do not protect any NSR from anything. Someday, when bases for surface ships and submarines will appear there, and when these surface ships and submarines themselves appear, it is possible.
                Quote: Crimean partisan 1974
                and this nonsense for what is laid out !!!!

                And this is not nonsense, but a fact how a Japanese woman surfaced at the Avach and waved our military pen.
                Quote: Crimean partisan 1974
                if you know how to reason on the basis of the performance characteristics of diesel submarines, then you will come to an unambiguous answer that diesel-electric submarines pass a maximum of 400 miles under water

                You have not even learned how to address strangers using "you", where should you talk about something else?
                Firstly, "maximum 400 miles" is for our "Varshavyanka", but for "Lad", for example, it is already 650 miles.
                Secondly, Japanese submarines can go "a little longer" by equipping them with VNEU.
                Quote: Crimean partisan 1974
                and the snorkel is used only in neutral waters or under the cover of their support ships ... now take a map and measure how much from Japan to the Wasp's Nest ...

                Thirdly, you should have turned on your head and figured out that a Japanese woman, even a pure diesel one, could well recharge somewhere a thread 200 miles from Avach and who would have found her there?
                Quote: Crimean partisan 1974
                don't muddle people's heads.

                My advice to you. Find your head, it obviously left you as completely unnecessary
                1. Sling cutter
                  Sling cutter 28 December 2020 12: 12
                  +5
                  Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                  My advice to you. Find your head, it obviously left you as completely unnecessary

                  Anlrey, welcome! hi The fact is that now in the Russian Federation there is a category of citizens subject to TV zombies and it is useless to convince them of something.
                  And you, as usual, ATP for informative comments. hi
                2. Cyril G ...
                  Cyril G ... 28 December 2020 12: 38
                  +3
                  Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                  but the fact is, as a Japanese woman surfaced at the Avach and waved our military pen.


                  Only Kamchatka is not aware of this ...
                3. Maikcg
                  Maikcg 28 December 2020 13: 00
                  0
                  Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                  Firstly, the Northern Sea Route did not fall sideways except for us

                  As if more than once or twice overseas crowed that the Northern Sea Route should be "international", there and Pompeo noted and some admirals. So no need to talk about unnecessary, this is a false message.
                  1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                    Andrei from Chelyabinsk 28 December 2020 13: 08
                    +2
                    Quote: MaikCG
                    As if more than once or twice overseas crowed that the Northern Sea Route should be "international", there and Pompeo noted and some admirals. So no need to talk about unnecessary, this is a false message.

                    This is not a false message, but a fact. You are now completely in vain mixing 2 questions into one. The interest in the NSR today is that the Americans and some others do not like the fact that they have to ask our permission to pass the NSR. And you have to ask him, because in some places the route runs through our tervods. But this question is purely political, because besides us, practically no one goes to the NSR, the traffic there is minimal.
                    In the event of a war, there is nothing interesting for the same Americans on the NSR. That is, arguing about the right of passage of ships and vessels is one thing, but military value is quite another.
                    1. Maikcg
                      Maikcg 28 December 2020 13: 13
                      +2
                      Military value - the launch of Toropov from the side, which is least covered by air defense due to its length and remoteness, the launch is almost from the coast itself, and even to some objects it will be closer (that is, faster).

                      The traffic is growing and will continue to grow.
                      1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 28 December 2020 13: 28
                        +1
                        Quote: MaikCG
                        Military value - the launch of Toropov from the side, which is least covered by air defense due to its length and distance

                        There is no such value. From the NSR, you can't really shoot with axes.
                        Quote: MaikCG
                        The traffic is growing and will continue to grow.

                        It does not grow, and no one needs it - it is banally cheaper through Suez
                      2. The comment was deleted.
                  2. Lex_is
                    Lex_is 28 December 2020 13: 41
                    +1
                    The interest in the NSR today is that the Americans and some others do not like the fact that they have to ask our permission to pass the NSR.

                    Andrey, in this case I disagree with you.

                    They don't really need passage along the NSR.
                    They are most worried about him from the point of view of putting pressure on China and preventing the supply of hydrocarbons from the north.

                    China is particularly reliant on hydrocarbon shipments. It knows too that in a time of conflict, the US Navy could easily close the Strait of Malacca, which would strangle its economy.
                    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                      Andrei from Chelyabinsk 28 December 2020 14: 03
                      0
                      Quote: Lex_is
                      Andrey, in this case I disagree with you.

                      I carefully read your comment, but I don't quite understand - what exactly do you disagree with? hi
                      After all, I did not write that the problem is in American courts, which we do not allow evil on the NSR :)
              2. Crimean partisan 1974
                Crimean partisan 1974 28 December 2020 15: 54
                +1
                "Actually, I thought that you mean the Japanese Kure ..." .. I did not mention this prefecture ..... but about Kura and Kura twice .... the difference in declension and the sapiens who drags in military affairs will immediately understand what it is about .... you Andryukha, apparently not one of those ... but by the way, put aside this chatter about familiarity .... just give your patronymic, because over the years of service you are used to communicating and referring by patronymic regardless of gender age
                And this is not nonsense, but the fact how the Japanese woman surfaced at the Avach ... I was not too lazy and contacted the Kent from Velyuchinsk, so he said that never when this was not ... it was the case that the Japs came with "good" about any celebrations ... but what would it be ... not when ... these are your inventions
                "Secondly, Japanese submarines can go 'a little' longer, by equipping VNEU" .... VNEU provides no more than 50 miles of underwater passage, and even if it goes under Stirling, on conventional diesel engines with a closed system a maximum of 10 miles
                200 miles from Avach and who would have found it there? ..... 200 miles from Avach is the same amount in the opposite direction, and this is only energy for the move. and for life support there is somewhere in the region of 20 percent of the energy reserve ... count the professor, and sharpen your mind
                My advice to you. Find your head, it obviously left you as completely unnecessary ..... I'm glad that the foil hat hasn't helped you yet ... but therapy does not work right away
                1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                  Andrei from Chelyabinsk 28 December 2020 16: 21
                  +5
                  Quote: Crimean partisan 1974
                  ro this prefecture I did not mention ... but about the Kur and the Kuru twice ... the difference in declination and the sapiens who drags in military affairs will immediately understand what it is about ...

                  Ага.
                  Quote: Crimean partisan 1974
                  to fly

                  Quote: Crimean partisan 1974
                  pulls to places fiscations

                  Quote: Crimean partisan 1974
                  how many here you are icebreakers

                  You, my dear man, decide somehow. Either you write normally, and according to the rules of the Russian language, or you risk being misunderstood. I do not have a myelophon, and I cannot and will not guess on the coffee grounds what and how you declined, where you wrote correctly, and where - with your left heel. And you can't blame me for that.
                  Quote: Crimean partisan 1974
                  by the way, put aside this chatter about familiarity ... just give your patronymic, because over the years of service I'm used to communicating and referring by patronymic regardless of gender and age

                  I am absolutely indifferent to what you are used to. I just showed my surprise at how you with such habits generally mastered the computer keyboard.
                  Quote: Crimean partisan 1974
                  I was not too lazy, but I contacted the Kent from Velyuchinsk, so he said that never when this happened ... b

                  But Maxim Klimov wrote "a little" differently. And I have much more trust in him than in you.
                  Quote: Crimean partisan 1974
                  200 miles from Avach is also the same in the opposite direction, and this is only energy for the move. and for life support there is somewhere in the region of 20 percent of the energy supply ... count the professor, and sharpen your mind

                  They wrote to you in Russian in white that the boat had sailed off our shores and went away calmly. What is the reverse move? I understand, of course, New Year's holidays and all that ... But you at least 2 + 2 will learn to add.
                  An ordinary diesel-electric submarine could easily replenish the charge about 200 miles or even closer, calmly approach the patrolling site, sit there for several days (in some cases, without any progress at all), then ascend and leave with a huge reserve in batteries.
                  Quote: Crimean partisan 1974
                  .but therapy does not work right away

                  I have no doubt that you are more aware of this than anyone else :)
                  1. Crimean partisan 1974
                    Crimean partisan 1974 28 December 2020 16: 26
                    0
                    I have no doubt that you are aware of this, like no one else :) ... well, let's finish this ... big hello to liar Maxim Klimov, I personally used to trust the locals
                    1. bukhach
                      bukhach 29 December 2020 02: 00
                      0
                      Well, you are used to it, and the freaks who have picked up from the global garbage heap-tyrnet-all sorts of nonsense think themselves experts, and they adore to gather in flocks and together brand those who disagree with their conclusions, strange people, the principle of "question everything" they only work in their favor, but do not mind.
                    2. Crimean partisan 1974
                      Crimean partisan 1974 29 December 2020 09: 22
                      0
                      Well, you are used to it, and the freaks picked up from the world garbage dump-tyrnet .... well, wax tyrnet provides general information ... but only a professional can provide details, and if we are talking about "how are you doing there" then the locals .. ... for example, I don't really need to rummage in the internet about what and how at this moment in Donetsk ... Kent called and all infa firsthand ..... the same with tanks, especially the first-born controbus mechanic drive T -72B3, ... it is necessary to find out the details of nuclear underwater technology, also to Kent ... and so on in everything ... but you should question it ... otherwise, like the Banderlog spaghetti will hang from their ears
                    3. bukhach
                      bukhach 30 December 2020 01: 53
                      0
                      ... and so in everything. I fully support! good
  • Vadim237
    Vadim237 28 December 2020 18: 27
    0
    Do we have any big successes there? Yes - a hypersonic anti-ship missile has appeared that can be launched from coastal to submarine carriers, and most likely in the future it will be adapted for air carriers.
  • jonht
    jonht 28 December 2020 06: 55
    +1
    Hyena Geyropa, compares the fleets of all three countries, and draws conclusions? !! But what about Japan, Britain? The disorder was not licked by everyone, urgently shares ... E for revision.
    You can, of course, compare in terms of displacement, but probably more correctly in terms of armament, and here the question is, why are the Eagles suddenly inferior to the Burks? If Burk has only 96 launch cells for everything, then Orlanov has 20 Granites, Fort-m air defense 96 missiles, Dagger 128 missiles, Osa-m 40 missiles, PLUR Trumpet 16 rocket torpedoes, RBU-1000 2 pcs + 2x5 torpedo tubes. Here, not like Burke, here and Tikandiroga (122 universal cells) have fewer weapons ...
    1. faiver
      faiver 28 December 2020 07: 24
      +4
      then the Eagles have 20 Granites
      - speak in the singular, and it would not be bad to indicate the difference in displacement and in quantitative terms ...
      1. jonht
        jonht 28 December 2020 07: 29
        0
        Then you tell me too, when we had a larger fleet than our opponents?
        And in terms of displacement, 2 times Berkov and 1,5 Teak
        1. faiver
          faiver 28 December 2020 07: 31
          +1
          in another life bully
          I'm lying, during the Finnish ...
          1. jonht
            jonht 28 December 2020 07: 37
            +2
            Damn, yes, there was definitely an advantage I forgot about this war, it is more known as an infantry hi
            1. faiver
              faiver 28 December 2020 07: 39
              +4
              yes, I almost forgot too, then I remembered how battleships chased the Finns with battleships, and did not catch up hi
    2. Lex_is
      Lex_is 28 December 2020 07: 58
      +2
      Of course, you can compare it in terms of displacement, but probably more correctly in terms of weapons


      Correct in the ability of the fleet to solve the tasks facing it, which are very different for different fleets.
  • Abrosimov Sergey Olegovich
    Abrosimov Sergey Olegovich 28 December 2020 07: 15
    0
    Quote: Odyssey
    Maybe Russia should forget about the ocean-going fleet, but at least not to Polish puppets to talk about it. Let them first acquire political subjectivity, or at least build their own fleet, and then think about others.


    Well, yes, when there is essentially nothing to say, it remains to answer: "Himself !!!" ...
  • Bez 310
    Bez 310 28 December 2020 07: 29
    +8
    Most of the commentators began to discuss
    Polish observer, they say, there is nothing in our fleet
    look in, you don't have that. And this observer
    right, our surface fleet is almost over, and
    we have no special accomplishments in underwater, I don’t even
    I know if we can make up for natural loss.
    But the propaganda machine is working at full power,
    and about the construction of some kind of minesweeper or torpedo
    trumpets all over the country, reporting on great achievements.
    1. faiver
      faiver 28 December 2020 07: 34
      +4
      which is, that is, a semi-senseless modernization of Chabanenko, incomprehensible modular patrolmen and so on and so on
    2. Alexander Galaktionov
      Alexander Galaktionov 28 December 2020 07: 48
      +1
      We would have one division of frigates in the Northern Fleet and TF fleet and 3 each in the Baltic Fleet and Black Sea Fleet, this will be good
    3. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... 28 December 2020 12: 51
      +2
      Quote: Bez 310
      And this observer
      right, our surface fleet is almost over, and
      we have no special accomplishments in underwater, I don’t even
      I know if we can make up for natural loss.


      Right. While it was really necessary to modernize from the middle of zero the existing ships of projects 1164, 1155, 956, 1124 and nuclear submarines of projects 971 and 949. And not to pump billions on the move into the new shipbuilding program, which, moreover, was stupidly failed, but set up something like that, about which I cannot censor.
      And the construction of new minesweepers per hour for a teaspoon, while it was possible for "a penny" to re-equip the existing mine detectors with new mine detection systems, this is just some kind of trash.
      At the same time, the simple idea that the main property of mine weapons is anonymity does not reach the illiterate "new Russian" admirals. And in the conditions of the New Cold War, they may well put quite unpretentious homemade mines available for production in artisanal conditions on the SSBN deployment route.
      Yes, at least floating

      What, for example, will later be announced by a group of fighters for the freedom of the Caucasian people or some kind of "Marine UGIL". And what will our so-called "admirals" be bleating THEN?
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 28 December 2020 18: 32
        +1
        I would have looked at these guys as they planted these homemade mines in the northern Atlantic Ocean in our territorial waters.
        1. Cyril G ...
          Cyril G ... 28 December 2020 18: 38
          0
          YES not a problem. From the word in general .... We click. Don't even hesitate. I won't elaborate on why this is exactly the case.
  • Alexander Galaktionov
    Alexander Galaktionov 28 December 2020 07: 44
    0
    In fact, so far, apart from corsets and frigates, we are not building
  • Bez 310
    Bez 310 28 December 2020 07: 49
    +12

    Very informative photo about which ships
    were in the Soviet Navy, and which are being built now.
    1. Alexander Galaktionov
      Alexander Galaktionov 28 December 2020 07: 58
      0
      Here, at least for TF, corvettes are being built Vosche Yantar could build frigates pr22350, why does not he build a riddle for me
    2. bukhach
      bukhach 29 December 2020 02: 19
      0
      Quote: Bez 310

      Very informative photo about which ships
      were in the Soviet Navy, and which are being built now.

      They build modern ships that are available in terms of the capabilities of shipbuilders, and do not be like a lot of fools who constantly try: "But in the USSR, it was" Worthless is today's Russia, its economic capabilities, to compare with the USSR, incomparable values ​​and require the same scale of development any type of weapon can only be narrow-minded people, such elementary things do not reach them.
  • Alexander Galaktionov
    Alexander Galaktionov 28 December 2020 07: 55
    +1
    What to talk about, even a reindeer - that's how Muscovites call the mayor could not modernize the sponsored ship of the GRK Moscow disgrace
  • Viktor Sergeev
    Viktor Sergeev 28 December 2020 08: 41
    -3
    Poles about the navy? Damn, soon they will probably start talking about this in Africa. Well, what do the Poles care about great Russia? Let their boats be scrapped first.
    1. Alexander Zhigunov
      Alexander Zhigunov 28 December 2020 10: 11
      -1
      Well, what do the Poles care about great Russia?

      Until very great!
  • Crash
    Crash 28 December 2020 08: 44
    0
    Tomorrow "Thundering" should be accepted
    https://flotprom.ru/2020/%D0%A1%D0%B5%D0%B2%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%8F%D0%92%D0%B5%D1%80%D1%84%D1%8C34/
  • APASUS
    APASUS 28 December 2020 08: 53
    +1
    According to him, the Navy uses four cruisers - three Atlanta and one Orlan, which "do not have the same capabilities as, for example, American destroyers such as Arleigh Burke or the older Ticonderoga cruisers."

    Licked so by the Polish expert for 5 points of the Americans! Where is the benchmarking analysis? Although why ............................ Polish expert
  • Alexander Zhigunov
    Alexander Zhigunov 28 December 2020 10: 09
    0
    How is it that Russia is not building an ocean-going ship? But what about the newest yacht of Putin's Chekist oligarch Mordashov for 300 million euros with a displacement of 9,5 thousand tons? Be proud, Russian patriot is a Nepolan puppet
  • Servisinzhener
    Servisinzhener 28 December 2020 10: 26
    0
    While the fat one dries up, the thin one dies.
    This is especially true of the Polish Navy, in which there are only two modern submarines and two frigates of the early XNUMXs.
  • Pushkar
    Pushkar 28 December 2020 10: 27
    +3
    Well, you are all about the Poles and about Poland. I am interested in whether the Pole wrote the truth about our fleet and whether Russia is going to somehow correct this situation. Polish billionaires don't care for me.
  • evgen1221
    evgen1221 28 December 2020 10: 33
    0
    Well, why, the yacht fleet is quite oceanic. And the military will still be reborn.
  • u-345
    u-345 28 December 2020 10: 46
    +7
    Poles forgot to ask when and what kind of fleet should we build
    1. Alexander Zhigunov
      Alexander Zhigunov 28 December 2020 10: 49
      0
      Are they asking you?
  • TermNachTer
    TermNachTer 28 December 2020 11: 01
    +1
    Rzhu nimagu)))) why shouldn't the Pshekov expert speculate about the problems and prospects of their fleet?))) Oh yes, I forgot, they don't have a fleet, but experts are like impolite dogs)))
    1. timokhin-aa
      timokhin-aa 28 December 2020 11: 25
      +4
      But your neighing ships will not increase with us. The Poles just can afford to do without a fleet - no one threatens them.
      1. TermNachTer
        TermNachTer 28 December 2020 11: 26
        +3
        And psheki squeak about the threat from Russia))) most of all I like experts from a country that does not have a fleet, and the near foreseeable future is not expected)))
        1. timokhin-aa
          timokhin-aa 28 December 2020 11: 27
          +3
          In order to see what is happening with the Russian Navy, you no longer need to be an expert.
          1. TermNachTer
            TermNachTer 28 December 2020 11: 44
            -1
            And what is happening in the US Navy, England, France - beauty and splendor?))) To list their problems, there will not be enough fingers or toes)))
            1. timokhin-aa
              timokhin-aa 28 December 2020 11: 47
              +8
              From the fact that a neighbor is hammering in the ass does not at all follow what we should.
              It is strange that this simple thought does not reach you.

              You, apparently, do not understand a simple thing - this is not a sport, not a competition in who has more ships or fewer problems.

              And although to whom I crucify ...
              1. TermNachTer
                TermNachTer 28 December 2020 12: 15
                +1
                Even though I had difficulty in reaching such daunting conclusions))) about the gay European (mattress) tolerance, we will not - these are their problems, and I sincerely wish them to continue moving in that direction (in the ass). I'm talking about the fact that they have no fewer problems, and maybe even more, than Russia, since we judge problems using information from open sources, we do not see pitfalls.
                1. timokhin-aa
                  timokhin-aa 28 December 2020 16: 30
                  +4
                  I'm talking about the fact that they have no less problems


                  Yes, I know without you what problems there are, but it's also a shame to the convulsions, that while they are there in prostration and do not know what to grab onto, we, instead of taking advantage of the moment when they go to the bottom (apparently temporarily, though) , rotting at a faster pace.
                  1. TermNachTer
                    TermNachTer 28 December 2020 23: 51
                    -4
                    Everything in this world is relative. Nobody knows what will happen next. My personal opinion is that the situation plays in Russia's favor and there is no need to rush things.
                    1. timokhin-aa
                      timokhin-aa 29 December 2020 12: 20
                      +1
                      This is wishful thinking, nothing more.
                      1. TermNachTer
                        TermNachTer 29 December 2020 13: 32
                        0
                        Let's see, we have everything ahead. Time will tell who was right.
              2. timokhin-aa
                timokhin-aa 29 December 2020 20: 16
                +2
                Cool, I caught three minuses laughing
      2. Svidetel 45
        Svidetel 45 28 December 2020 13: 17
        0
        They threaten themselves, obsequiously providing their territory for amerovskie bases, so if something happens, they should get it in full, and for this the fleet is not needed.
      3. bukhach
        bukhach 29 December 2020 02: 24
        +1
        The whining of yours and your like-minded people, who only have yachts of oligarchs in their heads, will surely add to what you are similar in your reasoning!
  • Tektor
    Tektor 28 December 2020 11: 03
    -1
    We just need to build frigates 22350 and 22350M - super Pots. And don't pay attention to the grunts. Do you want to ruin Poland? Give her a cruiser ... In all countries except the USA, the main combat unit is a frigate. And among the frigates there is no equal to Gorshkov. And this is the most balanced project in terms of quality / cost (combat capabilities / operating cost).
    1. FRoman1984
      FRoman1984 30 December 2020 09: 00
      0
      Quote: Tektor
      We just need to build frigates 22350 and 22350M - super Pots. And don't pay attention to the grunts. Do you want to ruin Poland? Give her a cruiser ... In all countries except the USA, the main combat unit is a frigate. And among the frigates there is no equal to Gorshkov. And this is the most balanced project in terms of quality / cost (combat capabilities / operating cost).

      And apart from China, too, where the destroyer comes to the fore.
      The Gorshkov is not an ocean ship.
  • musorg
    musorg 28 December 2020 12: 27
    0
    Don't pshikam about it! We will have everything, but the pshek need to actively eat their apples and not choke!
  • Voltsky
    Voltsky 28 December 2020 13: 01
    +2
    While naval powers such as the United States and China

    the author writes - a clinical imbecile

    RF currently positions itself as a north-south transport artery; West East; Well, he raises his nose a little to be an exporter too.
    Hence the thesis is as follows; transport artery west-east; and so under the control of the Russian Federation thanks to the many islands (the ships are super, but the base on the island is steeper)
    North-South is controlled by ground forces; The base in Sudan is also in this piggy bank.

    Consequently, the ocean fleet is a cool Wishlist, but you can do it and after that they will do it.
    1. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... 28 December 2020 20: 48
      +1
      The development of the ocean-going fleet should follow Russia's economic activities in the oceans. And not vice versa. For example, in the USSR, the ocean fleet was somehow justified, although conceptually poor, did not correspond to the tasks set, quantitatively excessively large, expensive to maintain and not provided with infrastructure
      1. Voltsky
        Voltsky 28 December 2020 22: 35
        +2
        Quote: Kirill
        The development of the ocean-going fleet should follow Russia's economic activities in the oceans. And not vice versa.


        what ?! Read my post again.
        Quote: Cyril G ...
        Here in the USSR

        what? !!? There is no USSR, and there will be no more.

        in the end, you are trying to refute what I said, or to add?
        1. Cyril G ...
          Cyril G ... 29 December 2020 00: 27
          0
          Actually add. Probably wrongly formulated, since there is an ambiguous interpretation.
          1. Voltsky
            Voltsky 29 December 2020 01: 03
            0
            happens :) also do not blame me

            then I will add, purely logically next to the CAR / South Africa, to have something; purely normal combo Africa + Arctic AA +
  • Maikcg
    Maikcg 28 December 2020 13: 08
    +2
    From Poland, another cried out about how bad everything is with Russia in comparison with the United States. The non-workers love to compare their master, not themselves, and of course not noticing the logs in the master's eye. Poland is strong, what else to add.
  • Svidetel 45
    Svidetel 45 28 December 2020 13: 13
    +3
    Let this Polish columnist point out to his wife that she should forget.
  • Alien From
    Alien From 28 December 2020 14: 43
    +1
    Poles should know that we will not run out of birches for them!
  • rozman
    rozman 28 December 2020 15: 34
    +2
    The ocean surface fleet is an instrument. Do we have a task for this tool? I emphasize, for the ocean surface.
  • golem
    golem 28 December 2020 18: 42
    +3
    I am a Pole and have read this Polish article. But not about that now. The authors of this Polish portal often refer to this Russian portal. And vice versa laughing And people from both countries are foaming at the mouth ...
    1. wow
      wow 29 December 2020 18: 09
      0
      I am also an ethnic Pole, but "the servant of the tsar, the father of the soldiers" is already in the 7th generation or more (after 1612). Somehow the brains are in place. It is necessary to correctly assess the needs of the Armed Forces in general and the country's Navy, in particular.
  • Diverter
    Diverter 28 December 2020 18: 44
    +6
    Basically, he said it was mostly correct. Today we do not have an ocean-going fleet. And there is nothing to worry about. If you take a globe in hand, you can see that three of the four fleets are actually locked in the basing seas. You also need to remember that our Navy is really very old. Plus the economy isn't super duper. In such conditions, it is necessary first to restore the support ships, then the ships of the coastal zone, in order to prevent the enemy from reaching the shore in an hour. After completing these tasks, the shipyards will be able to modernize and then move on to the construction of larger ships. And the ongoing modernization, after which the hull remains unchanged and then the entire digested allows the number of pennants to support the experience. In addition, you need to remember that our fleet is RUSSIAN. And those few ships of the 1st rank that we have, in which case they will fight no worse than the Makarovites, Ushakovites, Nakhimovites and many others, without disgracing the Andreevsky flag Yes! we do not have everything we want, but we are going the right way. And in this regard, do not open your mouth to corrupt pshekam!
  • dmmyak40
    dmmyak40 28 December 2020 20: 39
    +1
    This is the publication of the country in which all plans for the development of submarine forces were associated with the purchase of decommissioned Swedish submarines.
    But take the Swedes and don't write them off ...
  • Pamir
    Pamir 28 December 2020 22: 48
    0
    Well, in this problem, the Poles did not open the second "Theories of Probability" to us. So what is there for now, that is, or rather that which does not exist (in terms of shipbuilding), that does not exist. There are some projects, but those are projects, but with the embodiment in metal, there is still hopelessness. And the biggest problem is to force those in power to go out of the way into the quagmire. I wonder if any new projects will be brought to the start of construction in the New Year?
  • Alexey Kurilov_4
    Alexey Kurilov_4 29 December 2020 12: 09
    -1
    the rocket will fly where it is needed without a ship
  • Anachoret
    Anachoret 29 December 2020 13: 28
    +1
    Paradoxically, the restoration of the naval fleet building program is, on the whole, in the right direction. In theory.
    BUT! It is necessary to change the system of relations, management and accounting during construction. Introduce tight planning and building time management. Remove toy ships (type 22160), remove the re-grading in the form of an admiral's series, optimize and unify the remaining ones in terms of filling for possible techno-cannibalism in conditions of hypothetical hostilities and interruptions in the supply of units.
    And most importantly, the fishing and merchant fleet of Russia is needed powerful, numerous and varied. That was, for what to build a large military fleet.
    And to charge the single "white elephants" in the form of cruisers and aircraft carriers should not yet be, but it does not mean that they do not need to be designed. But large series of pl, apl, corvettes and frigates are needed for yesterday.
  • wow
    wow 29 December 2020 18: 04
    0
    Oh my God ! Again, shoot these Polish exPerdy. Well, whose cow would bellow, but not Polish.
  • Aleksky
    Aleksky 29 December 2020 22: 16
    -1
    Polish expert ...
    Where did a specialist in the field of armaments come from in this not large European state, which did not have a serious military in terms of victories over the past hundred years?
    At the same time, the weapons are not of their own state, but of Russia.
    He can judge the state of the armed forces, both individually and as a whole, based on various sources.
    It is not at all excluded, or rather there is confidence, that in the media space of the state, whose territory is considered as a springboard for the deployment of military contingent and means of attack, on the European part of Russia, it is necessary to create a legend of inability, to repulse the deployed forces.
    In order to avoid adequate understanding of the situation and create obstacles to the placement process.
    Besides, in the event of a real, military confrontation, the territory of this state will become a scorched field, not suitable for habitation.
    And then it will be, not really important, how much this military expert was close to the real state of affairs and understanding of how things are in various branches of the armed forces and weapons systems of the state, to which he gives advice, recommendations and instructions, how to treat its own armed forces forces.
    1. FRoman1984
      FRoman1984 30 December 2020 08: 54
      0
      Quote: Aleksky
      Polish expert ...
      Where did a specialist in the field of armaments come from in this not large European state, which did not have a serious military in terms of victories over the past hundred years?
      At the same time, the weapons are not of their own state, but of Russia.
      He can judge the state of the armed forces, both individually and as a whole, based on various sources.
      It is not at all excluded, or rather there is confidence, that in the media space of the state, whose territory is considered as a springboard for the deployment of military contingent and means of attack, on the European part of Russia, it is necessary to create a legend of inability, to repulse the deployed forces.
      In order to avoid adequate understanding of the situation and create obstacles to the placement process.
      Besides, in the event of a real, military confrontation, the territory of this state will become a scorched field, not suitable for habitation.
      And then it will be, not really important, how much this military expert was close to the real state of affairs and understanding of how things are in various branches of the armed forces and weapons systems of the state, to which he gives advice, recommendations and instructions, how to treat its own armed forces forces.

      And where is he wrong? Or is the fact that he is a Pole an excuse to anathematize him and declare everything said to be nonsense?
      There is no ocean-going fleet, because there are no bucks for big ships. Everything is simple and straightforward. And the absence even in the design of the destroyer (exhibition models do not count) is a confirmation of this.
  • fa2998
    fa2998 30 December 2020 06: 10
    +2
    Quote: bistrov.
    I do not see what the "Pole is right" about.

    The Pole is right that Russia is currently building a fleet for the "puddles" of the Baltic and Black Seas and other coastal fleets. With such ships, you should forget about the ocean! hi
  • FRoman1984
    FRoman1984 30 December 2020 08: 49
    0
    Everything is correct. We do not build anything more than a "frigate", because there are no attendants. Everything went to the vineyards in Italy at Medvedev, the fur store at Yakunin, the estate at Shuvalov. The list of Nullified's buddies is long. Frigates and corvettes are ships of the far / near sea zone and have nothing to do with the term "ocean fleet".
    There are no destroyers and will never be, there is not even a working draft. Models at exhibitions do not count. 956 destroyers are all under the decommissioning due to the unsuccessful power plant.
    BOD - only the calculation for the modernization of part of the ships of the project 1155. They will be retrained as "frigates" again. BOD Shaposhnikov became a frigate the other day.
    And 2 beautiful ocean Eagles. The rest 2 for scrap. They say they don't see the point in modernization. They say long and expensive. ... In addition to these 4 ships further than the Mediterranean Sea, other ships are simply dangerous to send.
    That's our entire surface fleet. Not the Navy, but the Coast Guard. A shame.