Military Review

Strategists - west of Kamchatka and east of Japan

154

Photo: Alexey Voron, alexey-raven.livejournal.com


300 years ago Peter I founded Saint Petersburg and Kronstadt in the Baltic. 80 years later, Catherine II laid the foundation of Sevastopol. And 70 years later (in 1854), Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky and Sevastopol adequately defended the interests of Russia in the war with the then NATO led by Great Britain.

In 1871, the main naval base of the Siberian Sea was transferred to Vladivostok. flotilla... And, finally, in the difficult war of 1916, the last Tsar Nicholas II approved the construction of the last city of the Russian Empire - Murmansk by the highest resolution.

Russia, going out to its natural natural boundaries, was fixed on them seriously and for a long time, building cities, ports and fortresses. And it was always difficult, despite the circumstances, nature, enemies.

Before the revolution, Russian naval strongholds were not more threatened than the twelve-inch battleships of the Kaiser and Mikado.

Under the Union, mine and artillery positions, a mosquito fleet, submarines and aviation... Under the USSR, the fleet became nuclear missile and reached its maximum power. Unfortunately, the quantitative and qualitative growth of the naval personnel and aviation of the Navy was accompanied by a chronic lag in the development of the coastal infrastructure, repair base, living conditions and service of the personnel. Probably, there were objective reasons for that.

Under the conditions of the new Russia at the turn of the century, the beginning of the reduction of the fleet gave timid hope for a gradual leveling of the old imbalance, but this did not happen. The only remaining aircraft-carrying heavy cruiser is still without a berth. Ships and submarines consume the service life of the units while in the bases. And the ships requiring repair and modernization are doomed to write-off.

Everyone is used to this state of affairs and is taken for granted.

Critical Fatal Flaws


Avachinskaya Bay, Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky, Vilyuchinsk ...

The wasp's nest, the focus of global evil, subject to primary and unconditional destruction in wartime, and a zone of close attention in peacetime for the Pentagon. Part of the naval component of Russia's strategic nuclear forces is concentrated here.

With the emergence of ballistic missile submarines, it was difficult to find the best place for their long-term deployment on a permanent basis: maximum proximity to potential targets of strike, open access to the deep-water part of the ocean and freedom to choose routes to areas of alert, convenient closed bay and the availability of port infrastructure ...

But this was the choice of the 50s of the last century.

Strategists - west of Kamchatka and east of Japan
This should never happen again.

Modern "Boreas", which are undergoing rearmament of the Navy, will not be sent on duty to California, Oregon and Washington. They should feel comfortable in the Sea of ​​Okhotsk, the entire bottom of which, by the way, since March 15, 2014, belongs to the continental shelf of Russia.

SLBMs from an SSBN from the Sea of ​​Okhotsk are capable of reaching any state in the continental United States. Only now the path from the bay on the eastern coast of Kamchatka to the sea off its western coast has become more and more dangerous for some time now.

Submarine warfare tactics are brutal and not sentimental. The only known and invariable constant in the equation of underwater confrontation is the exit from the Avacha Bay.

In this square, the highest probability of detection and acceptance for escort of an enemy submarine cruiser. An ambush can also be set up on the way to the Kuriles, and submarines-hunters are not prohibited from entering the Sea of ​​Okhotsk.

Twelve MRK, MPK and minesweepers of still Soviet projects and buildings from the OVR brigade can theoretically be considered reliable protection from submarines of the Los Angeles, Sea Wolf, and Virginia types. Coastal anti-ship missile systems, S-400 air defense systems and MiG-31 interceptors will not allow the American AUG to fire a pistol shot.

The valiant REB members will "reconnoiter and land" a massive strike from the depths of the ocean from an underwater arsenal of Ohio-class cruise missiles. I really want to believe it. But let's leave questions of faith to the ministers. No certainty!

Taranto and Pearl Harbor were unexpectedly attacked in times of war and peace. And even Gunther Prien made his way into Scapa Flow. Losing battleships is a blow to money, nothing more. The loss of three strategic missile submarines will change the fate of the country and not for the better.

Paradoxical as it may sound, but the main drawback is that a strategic naval base of similar importance and class is located on the coast of the open ocean. No sea, no bay-strait, no lake or canal ...

Karl, is ocean!

This means that everything that can swim or fly here is dangerous!

The military potential of the base is primarily determined by advanced scientific developments and the capabilities of the country's military-industrial complex. Most of the ships and the overwhelming mass of the range of weapons are produced in the European part of the country - not even within the Far East Military District.

Everything (from groceries and footcloths to ballistic missiles) has to be imported in conditions of the most difficult transport logistics. For clarity, let us recall the "Syrian Express" for Tartus and Khmeimim. There is a shortage of supply vessels, all ports from the polar Murmansk to the nearest ones - Novorossiysk and Sevastopol are involved.

Note that in the European part of the country there are railways in all ports, and the entire Far East hangs in the balance of the Transsib. So, from the Peter the Great Bay to the Avacha Bay, there is a sea passage of 3000 kilometers, for which you can give a badge

"For a long hike."

For example, Arctic convoys from the UK to Murmansk traveled roughly the same distance in a similar navigation environment. In conditions of hostilities at sea, the supply of Kamchatka will have to be organized by convoys or individual ships under heavy protection. Given the enemy's overwhelming superiority in theater of operations in submarines, surface ships, coastal and carrier-based aviation, the base in Kamchatka will be blocked and destroyed - a matter of time and a volitional decision.

The bleak picture is aggravated by the harsh weather and natural conditions in which the fleet and troops are on alert and conduct daily activities.

For reference: the region of Kamchatka and the Kuriles is the most seismically active not only in our vast country, but also on the planet Earth as a whole. Any construction (and even more infrastructure facilities for the storage and operation of nuclear weapons and ships with nuclear reactors) must take this circumstance into account. The examples of Chernobyl and Fukushima are still alive in the memory of people.

Seismic activity, active volcanoes covered with glaciers, difficult terrain, maximum precipitation in the region combined with winds and fogs create extreme conditions for the combat use of aviation and air defense systems in the defense of strategic military facilities.

The conclusion is unambiguous. In other words, there can be no two opinions here, and bargaining is not appropriate here: For the sake of the country's unconditional security, the base of nuclear missile submarines with ballistic missiles must be moved to a safer and more suitable place in the Far East.

Difficult compromise choices


The choice of the location for the future SSBN base is obvious - near the village of Lazarev on the shore of the narrowest point of the Nevelskoye Strait. The name is in honor of the honored admiral. And the Gryaznaya bay can be renamed by holding a national referendum among the local population and a new garrison.

This decision will by itself push the government towards the long-awaited construction of a railway bridge to Sakhalin. Still, an eight-kilometer bridge across the Nevelskoy Strait in the narrowest place will not look like a masterpiece compared to a 15-kilometer bridge crossing across the Kerch Strait.

True, right from tomorrow you will have to start laying rails on the Komsomolsk-on-Amur - De-Kastri - Lazarev stretch of about 400 kilometers. You can, of course, listen to the cry of the liberals. But in the stagnant USSR, the Baikal-Amur Mainline was laid. And under the tsars they were honored to stretch the "piece of iron" of the CER to Port Arthur. (Also, by the way, there was a Russian naval base).

Thus, the interests of the country's defense capability, the economic development of the Far East and a mega business project with the participation of foreign capital will merge in harmony (we will silently ignore the new American sanctions).

Lazarev and Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky are practically at the same latitude, so the climatic conditions will be very similar. But in Primorye, seismic activity is somewhat lower and Lazarev is covered by Sakhalin from the sea border. It would seem that all the shortcomings of the base in Kamchatka have been successfully eliminated, but nature once again demonstrates the insignificance of human efforts in front of its power ...

The depths of the Amur estuary and the Sakhalin Gulf of the Sea of ​​Okhotsk do not allow the use of underwater strategic missile carriers. From Lazarev to the thirty-meter depth of the continental shelf in the Sea of ​​Okhotsk (starting above the 54th parallel) the distance is not less than 200 kilometers.

Submarines would have to overcome this route on the surface along strict narrow fairways (accompanied by anti-mine ships and with mandatory fighter air cover).

Such events, of course, will not go unnoticed by enemy reconnaissance, primarily space intelligence.

Although, on the other hand, if you look closely, the US naval base Kitsap (combined by Bangor and Bremerton) is located no less tricky. Because of the shallow water, it is necessary to abandon both the mouth of the Amur and rather convenient bays in the region of the Shantar Islands.

Continuing to look at the western coast of the Sea of ​​Okhotsk, we will pay attention to the Ayan Bay and the small Ayan Bay of the same name.

Quite a convenient place, but for a lower class naval base, not for underwater strategists. The forces for the defense of the Sea of ​​Okhotsk itself, corvettes, frigates and Varshavyanka-class submarines could have settled here. But transitions to objects of interest (represented by the chain of the Kuril Islands, the straits between them and, in fact, the state border), which will last up to two days in both directions, put a big cross on any promptness of response to emerging threats and are simply economically inexpedient.

It remains to pay attention to the pearl of the Sea of ​​Okhotsk - the Nagaev Bay and the port city of Magadan located in its depths.

Comfortable depths of a closed bay. Its dimensions (the entrance to the bay up to three kilometers wide and the length inland up to 12 kilometers) could be appreciated by sailors as a gift from Mother Nature, which she does not often do. But the language does not turn under the pressure of political superstitions (and rabid occultism from RenTV) to invite readers to connect the fate of the strategic base of the Russian Navy with the image of sunny Magadan. With the one that has developed in the country around this settlement.

In short, as from Mexico to Canada, the Americans did not find anything better than Kitsap, so fate itself ordered the Russians to develop the Ayrene Bay and the Lisyansky Peninsula.

Tmutarakan in a new way


What kind of place is it?

59 degrees north latitude and 145 degrees east longitude. Latitude of Magadan, Nizhnevartovsk, Khanty-Mansiysk, Solikamsk, Vologda, Tikhvin and St. Petersburg. Europe and America are not interesting to us.

On the same meridian with the South Kuril, which is located on our island Kunashir. In short, Sakhalin and the whole country of the rising sun is to the west.

And further north, up to the Sannikov Strait, I could not find settlements familiar to the general public. Maybe it's all for the best. Romance. But nearby in the east is Magadan (280 km), and in the west - Okhotsk (150 km).

The entrance to the Eirineyskaya Bay is wide and spacious. The distance between Cape Nizmenny on the western coast of the Lisyansky Peninsula and Cape Shilkan is 7 kilometers. The depths, both at the entrance and in the greater area of ​​the lip itself, exceed the 20-meter mark.

The coast is formed by a chain of hills with heights of 250-600 meters. The area of ​​the closed water area of ​​the Eirineyskaya Bay (according to my calculations) is not less than 50 square kilometers (I did not find exact data). This is comparable to Nakhodka Bay. And much less Avacha Bay. This makes it possible to comfortably accommodate the 25th submarine division here, even if the number of Boreis grows to six units (96 deployed carriers).

The average tide is 3 meters. Similar to the value at the entrance to the Kola Bay.

The advantages of this place include white nights (as in St. Petersburg), significantly weaker seismic activity and half the annual precipitation (compared to Kamchatka).

Relative disadvantages:
- the average annual temperature is -3,8 ºС (in Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky this indicator is +2,8 ºС);
- eternal Frost;
- only 59 days of sunshine a year, of which only 7 (one week) from May to September.

Although, on the other hand, the impossibility of conducting optical air and space reconnaissance by the enemy for the future naval base is rather an advantage.


The main wind directions in this area (up to 40% of the time of the year) are north and northwest (up to 13%) at a speed of 4–5 m / s.

The place we are considering is administratively included in the Khabarovsk Territory. The distance from it to the capital of the region is at least 1400 km, if in a straight line (or rather, by air).

Although another neighboring administrative capital (with the largest in the north-east of the country, the international airport named after V.S.Vysotsky) in the Magadan region is also within 280 km from it.

The population density of the Okhotsk District of the Khabarovsk Territory in 2020 (attention) 0,04 people / sq. km. (This is disrespect for people by the compilers of such statistics. After all, one could write: one person per 25 square kilometers).

If a submarine base and a large garrison are deployed according to the ZATO principle, the Okhotsk region, within the framework of a small administrative reform, is transferred to the Magadan region. Thus, the indicators of population density will improve both in the Khabarovsk Territory and in the Magadan Region, which is incremented to it.

As Shura Balaganov said:
"In fairness!"

Military fantasy


Years later, after the departure of the 25th division and reconstruction, the Pacific Aircraft Carrier Strike Group, led by the nuclear-powered aircraft carrier, began to be based in Avacha Bay on a permanent basis. The Putin naval base and the eponymous closed administrative territorial unit in the Eirineyskaya Bay and the surrounding area become the stronghold of the nuclear missile forces of the country and the Eastern District. New formations of the fleet and the aerospace forces are being formed: a submarine division; air defense division VKS; OVR team; coastal defense brigade.


The Germans in occupied Lorient could afford it. Something more monumental should be in the "Borey".
Photo: Martin Cígler, Wikimedia Commons

In the base, underground or concrete capital shelters are created for each SSBN, an underground arsenal, a coastal dry dock. At first, the issues of heat and power supply are closed by the floating nuclear thermal power plant (FNPP) - a sister ship of Akademik Lomonosov.


Temporary solution to energy problems. Photo: zavodfoto.livejournal.com

Having given preference to nuclear missiles, nuclear submarines and a nuclear power plant, the Ministry of Defense should not economize on a nuclear icebreaker for year-round trouble-free operation of the strategic base. It is necessary to order a series of ships more modest than the Vaygach. Something like an updated "Lenin". To work in the base and the surrounding area with a modern military flavor.


The new icebreaker is to become a lifeguard, a tug, and a sonar reconnaissance vessel. Photo: rosatomflot.ru

Logical conclusions to guide action


It has been officially announced that the strategic forces' fleet will be renewed by 86 percent; in the coming years, the pace of renewal will naturally slow down. The freed up financial resources should be used to improve and update the infrastructure for the maintenance and operation of the newest weapons received.

The relocation of the base of the latest SSBNs from the border 1000 kilometers inland makes it possible to reduce the likelihood of a preventive disarming strike with both conventional and nuclear weapons. Creation of infrastructure from scratch in a new place for specific types of weapons allows avoiding unnecessary costs for demolition and dismantling of old, attempts to adapt and rebuild everything and everything to new requirements at the expense of quality, reliability, new tactical and strategic environment.

The logistics of the new base will continue to be removed from the railway tracks in the Vladivostok area. Perhaps, in the future, with the construction of the Sakhalin Bridge and the transformation of the Lazarev settlement into a transshipment point and a developing port, the shoulder of the supply by sea will be reduced both to Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky and to the closed city of Putin. But even with the existing starting points, the routes of the vessels will now pass mostly within the territorial waters and under the cover of coastal anti-aircraft and anti-ship complexes and coastal aviation.

The Trump administration's withdrawal within four years from the ABM, INF, Open Skies treaties (and the dim prospects of the START treaty are on the way) make our strategists from the General Staff think deeply about the consequences of these decisions of a potential enemy. And at the same time, this also opens a window of opportunity for building up both the defense and offensive potential of our country, adjusted for modern realities, and not for the epic times of the USSR.

To address the issues of safe basing, deployment and maintenance by existing and future SSBNs, it is necessary to turn the Sea of ​​Okhotsk into safe inland waters, transforming the Kuril sieve into an insurmountable spot for submarines, ships and aircraft of crooks of all stripes. Including from the Hokkaido side.
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  1. Vladimir_2U
    Vladimir_2U 28 December 2020 10: 05
    +34
    Military fantasy
    Well, that's actually all about the article.
    1. Lech from Android.
      Lech from Android. 28 December 2020 10: 17
      +15
      Why not ... the author expounds quite sound thoughts ... a naval base in the depths of Russia is in a safer position than on the border itself, in the event of a sudden enemy attack, there will be time to react. hi
      Kamchatka is the most beautiful and richest region in natural resources ... I had a chance to work there ... it is geologically complex and earthquake-prone ... it shakes constantly, but for the future of Russia it is of great value and it is vital to have high-quality naval forces there. It is necessary to equip and attract people there, and not survive them from there.
      1. Vladimir_2U
        Vladimir_2U 28 December 2020 10: 19
        +12
        Quote: Lech from Android.
        Why not ...
        Yes, I have nothing against the Russian military base on the far side of the Moon, but the country's economic, and I'm afraid physical, capabilities have something to say against.
        So fantasy, not even fiction.
        1. Lech from Android.
          Lech from Android. 28 December 2020 10: 23
          -3
          So fantasy, not even fiction.

          Nearby, 123 million Japanese live in the same natural conditions without any fantasy and work ... how are we worse than them? hi
          1. Vladimir_2U
            Vladimir_2U 28 December 2020 10: 31
            +8
            Quote: Lech from Android.
            Nearby 150 million Japanese live and work without any fantasy
            Correct me, but only Hokkaido is similar in climate to Kamchatka, the author describes an even more severe place than Kamchatka. Well:
            The logistics of the new base will continue to be removed from the railway tracks in the Vladivostok area
            also does not add realism.
            1. Sergej1972
              Sergej1972 28 December 2020 17: 36
              +1
              Why did you exaggerate the population of Japan?)) The author of the quote, "Lyokha from android", wrote about 123 million, slightly underestimated, in fact 126 million. For some reason, you are using the number 150 million.
              1. Vladimir_2U
                Vladimir_2U 28 December 2020 18: 28
                +2
                Maybe because "Lyokha" corrected his comment after I took a quote from it.
                1. Vladimir Mashkov
                  Vladimir Mashkov 29 December 2020 19: 45
                  +3
                  I read it with pleasure and laughed with pleasure. laughing laughing laughing If this is not a New Year's joke, the author deserves the title of "Great sofa geopolitician", he should be deservedly awarded it! yes Well, or the title of "Great Faycomet" - as you like. smile

                  The idea, of course, is crazy. yes More delusional than it is the idea of ​​the author who (from the noblest motives - to reduce human and material losses) suggested that the North Sea ocean "strategists" be dragged along the rivers into lakes and spread out in holes! yes And here it is proposed, from the same noble motives, to drag ocean strategic cruisers of the Pacific Fleet far from the ocean, significantly complicate their basing (uninhabited uninhabited area with a more severe climate and difficult supply, ice in the basing areas up to SIX months, icebreaker assistance), lengthen the outlet to the ocean by 1300 km !!! By the way, Magadan is much more suitable for the base (I don’t know how it is now, but before there were submarines). Image is nonsense, the city is like a city. Pretty cute, by the way. yes

                  I thought: maybe "Scharngorst" is a CIA agent who offers such a "wonderful" solution? Maybe they will peck? bully

                  But I read it with pleasure, even was honored to see additional views! The fact is that in the past I am a fisherman-sailor-Far East, in those places (and not only) that the author mentions repeatedly. And in the Avacha Bay, past the Three Brothers, and in the Nagaev Bay, by the Spafarev Island, and in De-Kastri. hi
          2. Sahalinets
            Sahalinets 28 December 2020 10: 53
            +12
            Are you kidding? Yes Japan is a subtropical country. Hokkaido is certainly colder, there is a moderate monsoon, but the average January temperature there is in the range from -12 to -4. In Okhotsk, the average is -21.
            1. Vladimir_2U
              Vladimir_2U 28 December 2020 10: 55
              +1
              Quote: Sahalinets
              Yes Japan is a subtropical country.

              And I'm about the same.
          3. shahor
            shahor 4 January 2021 00: 09
            +1
            Quote: Lech from Android.
            than we are worse than them?

            The budget.
        2. Boa kaa
          Boa kaa 28 December 2020 12: 18
          +5
          Quote: Vladimir_2U
          So fantasy, not even fiction.

          No, Vladimir, this is still fantastic, because there must be magic in fantasy! and magical characters. The magic of Putin ... in ZATO, this is certainly great, but still it falls short of Tolkien. laughing
      2. Boa kaa
        Boa kaa 28 December 2020 13: 19
        +8
        Quote: Lech from Android.
        the author expresses quite common ideas ..

        The author sets out his Wishlist. Quite logical, but not based on the realities of geography, logistics, distribution of productive forces across the territory, on the economy, technological and military-building capabilities of the country.
        a naval base in the depths of Russia is in a safer position than on the border itself,
        This is true, but then you need to call the ancient ukrov so that the sea was dug up next to this base. laughing
        in the event of a sudden enemy attack, there will be a response time.
        Two points.
        First. About surprise. It is only tactically possible to achieve it. And here we are talking about the strategic level. I suppose you heard something about the degrees of BG. Therefore, there will be no one in the VO base, well, except for those who are unable to break away from the pier. (But I hope they can dive right into the PB).
        Second. About the time. If the strike is from the water area of ​​TO at a distance of up to 1000 km, then the "system" will not have time to react ... God forbid, that the missile defense / air defense systems will work. Therefore, the beginning of the TMV should not be approached with the standards of the WWII. Only work ahead of schedule can prevent something.
        It is reasonable to ask the question: - "but what to do !?"
        Really - strengthening and building up support forces. Preventive search for foreign submarines / submarines on deployment routes and in the area adjacent to the naval base. Creation of a HIF system at least 500 miles from (.) "Yako" ... These are coastal GAS DGAN, and PLO aircraft, and PLO submarines, and corvettes with OSNAZ (DGAN) components with GPGA ...
        And to build a new naval base for strategists in an uninhabited, remote from civilization region of the Far East, in rocky ground ...
        IT IS FANTASTIC!!!
        AHA.
      3. Aleksandr1971
        Aleksandr1971 28 December 2020 13: 35
        0
        The article is good.
        Once, in my only article on this site, I have already expressed in the comments the idea that the SSBN bases should be transferred from Severodvinsk and Vilyuchinsk to more protected water bodies. But I substantiated the idea of ​​transferring the SSBN bases to Ladoga and Onega lakes and to Baikal. This is better than the hypothetical base in the Nevelskoy Strait.
        1. SovAr238A
          SovAr238A 28 December 2020 20: 55
          +2
          Quote: Aleksandr1971
          But I substantiated the idea of ​​transferring the SSBN bases to Ladoga and Onega lakes and to Baikal. This is better than the hypothetical base in the Nevelskoy Strait.


          Inland waters are prohibited for the placement of nuclear weapons.
          1. Aleksandr1971
            Aleksandr1971 29 December 2020 06: 10
            0
            Banned by whom? There is no such prohibition. And even if such a ban appears, it will be harmful to Russia, unlike the United States. The United States also has inland reservoirs for nuclear weapons. But the United States does not need to place nuclear weapons in the Great Lakes because, unfortunately, nothing threatens their submarines.

            Now there are only 3 agreements about the joint-stock company: 1) On the prohibition of the proliferation of nuclear weapons; 2) On the prohibition of the placement of nuclear weapons in the komso; 3) START-3, which limits the number of warheads, the number of their carriers and the range of carriers.
    2. Civil
      Civil 28 December 2020 10: 42
      +3
      No money left. On this, gentlemen and comrades can disagree.
      1. Aleksandr1971
        Aleksandr1971 28 December 2020 13: 32
        +5
        There is no money for the base in Vilyuchinsk. Therefore, this base also: 1) vegetates; 2) siphons too much money from the military budget.
        Of course, you must first invest in the arrangement of the base in Primorye or in the Khabarovsk Territory. But on the other hand, the operation of the base will be several times cheaper. And most importantly, as emphasized by the author of the article, the combat stability of the strategic forces of the Pacific Fleet will sharply increase and the ability of them to carry out an attack on the enemy without being exposed to an ultra-high risk of a preemptive strike.
      2. Svetlana
        Svetlana 28 December 2020 19: 43
        +3
        Quote: Civil
        No money left

        But there is a road Ayan-Nelkan-Jigda. 75 km from Dzhigda, money is literally lying underfoot - in the world's largest platinum deposit Konder, which has the shape of a mountain ring. You can find investors, build a road from Konder to Dzhigda, place a mining and processing plant in Konder, similar to Norilsk Nickel. In the center of Conder to place a mine-based Strategic Missile Forces base, and in the Ayan Bay - an SSBN base, as the author suggests. We will get a comprehensive development of the region and the fortified area, far from the borders.
        1. SovAr238A
          SovAr238A 28 December 2020 21: 20
          0
          Quote: Svetlana
          Quote: Civil
          No money left

          But there is a road Ayan-Nelkan-Jigda. 75 km from Dzhigda, money is literally lying underfoot - in the world's largest platinum deposit Konder, which has the shape of a mountain ring. You can find investors, build a road from Konder to Dzhigda, place a mining and processing plant in Konder, similar to Norilsk Nickel. In the center of Conder to place a mine-based Strategic Missile Forces base, and in the Ayan Bay - an SSBN base, as the author suggests. We will get a comprehensive development of the region and the fortified area, far from the borders.


          Who in their right mind will go there to live and serve?

          Well, it's okay to serve, but who will go to live?
          1. Svetlana
            Svetlana 28 December 2020 22: 04
            0
            Quote: SovAr238A
            Well, it's okay to serve, but who will go to live?

            The same people who go to Norilsk will go there. Konder is still located much south of Norilsk and the climate in the Khabarovsk Territory is milder than the Arctic, although there are also northern allowances there. Now mining is being carried out inside the Konder ring massif. In addition to platinum, minerals of other platinoids were found on the territory of the massif. Unique minerals found only in the ores of the Konder massif are conderite Cu3Pb (Rh, Pt, Ir) 8S16 - sulfide of copper, lead, rhodium, platinum and iridium, or, for example, crystals of an alloy of iron and platinum covered with gold from the Konder deposit:

            Gravimetric and magnetic studies show that the Konder intrusion, the frozen part of the magma column, extends into the depths of the earth's crust for at least 10 km. Therefore, there will be enough ore for a long time with the mine method of extraction. In the worked-out mountain adits, you can place a warehouse for special ammunition, an underground control center.
            see https://elementy.ru/kartinka_dnya/1067/Massiv_Kondyor
            1. SovAr238A
              SovAr238A 28 December 2020 22: 45
              +1
              Quote: Svetlana
              Quote: SovAr238A
              Well, it's okay to serve, but who will go to live?

              The same people who go to Norilsk will go there. Konder is still located much south of Norilsk and the climate in the Khabarovsk Territory is softer than the Arctic one,


              Have you been to Norilsk yourself?
              Theorist Mlyn ...
              Call back to Vorkuta ...

              Nobody goes to the north except for Dagestanis and fools himself ...
              I am telling you this as a person who has just returned from Noyabrsk from an air temperature of minus 52 ...
              And in the north and all Yakutia I have been driving tightly for the past several years ...

              Dreamer...
        2. Machito
          Machito 29 December 2020 04: 22
          +1
          Quote: Svetlana
          Quote: Civil
          No money left

          But there is a road Ayan-Nelkan-Jigda. 75 km from Dzhigda, money is literally lying underfoot - in the world's largest platinum deposit Konder, which has the shape of a mountain ring. You can find investors, build a road from Konder to Dzhigda, place a mining and processing plant in Konder, similar to Norilsk Nickel. In the center of Conder to place a mine-based Strategic Missile Forces base, and in the Ayan Bay - an SSBN base, as the author suggests. We will get a comprehensive development of the region and the fortified area, far from the borders.

          I remember some of our action movies from the 90s: Gold is not profitable to mine.
          Your plan is not bad, but for its implementation, you must first restore the State Planning Commission, the State Control, the Five-Year Development Plan of the country, adopt anti-corruption legislation, classify corruption crimes in the section of especially-especially-especially grave with punishment up to life, and bring to criminal responsibility the relatives of the corrupt official who participated in the legalization of stolen funds, etc. etc. But this is definitely both science fiction and fantasy in one bottle, more abruptly Rogozin's stories about the furrowing of spaceships with the Bolshoi Theater.
    3. marchcat
      marchcat 28 December 2020 10: 42
      +3
      Well, why, the article is not all fantasy. The naval base Putin, but this, according to the author, is reality!
    4. antivirus
      antivirus 28 December 2020 11: 23
      +4
      minus I'm afraid to put the authors in the VO - "bath attendants" work quickly
      you can buy Cuba again, cheaper.
      happy with the confidence "aircraft carriers will fall into place .."
      many articles - "for seed", start and deepen discussion.
      delight knowledge in latitudes and meridians. it is not said about the cost of building roads (logistics) from the mainland and the climate. ice is absent everywhere - the author's thoughts change the climate. One nuclear icebreaker is enough for everyone.
      ... I wanted to re-read Obender's visit to chess players ...
      ..........................................................

      Who at the General Staff is responsible for viewing the press? and for the prospects for the development of the fleet? brace yourself guys ...
      1. SovAr238A
        SovAr238A 28 December 2020 21: 21
        -1
        Quote: antivirus

        Who at the General Staff is responsible for viewing the press? and for the prospects for the development of the fleet? brace yourself guys ...


        Do you also think that in a year or two there will be a project for implementation for the next 30 years? :)
    5. ccsr
      ccsr 28 December 2020 13: 16
      +2
      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      Well, that's actually all about the article.

      I was also amazed at how easily the author decided to create a new military base, without even substantiating what costs we would incur, and whether they would not turn out to be an order of magnitude more than those that we now spend on maintaining the existing base.
      The author's dreams that the new base will be inaccessible to the means of reconnaissance is dumbfounded - it is strange how the author imagines it at the current level of technology development.
      There are a number of absurdities, but let's forgive them to the author, if only because he hardly knows what promising weapon systems are currently being investigated at the R&D level, but that's what worries me about this venture. People of the older generation remember Damansky Island and what followed it, when a huge amount of funds was spent on the construction of the UR in the Far East against the Chinese. Then all this was abandoned, due to the fact that our party leaders came up with a great idea - we need to abandon ideological attitudes, and consider China enemy number 2, and not spare nuclear charges on it.
      And now, when various speculations about new military expenditures begin, I just want to ask - why are we unable to destroy our main opponents with our previous forces?
      As one of my boss used to say, before you do something, first think about what it is for. Maybe during the time of comprehension, the problem will resolve itself ...
    6. Aleksandr1971
      Aleksandr1971 28 December 2020 13: 42
      +2
      And why is the proposed site near the Nevelskoy Strait? There is no infrastructure there. And to build infrastructure there - at a price almost like building a new Vilyuchinsk.

      As a person who spent his childhood in the Far East, I know that there is already a ready mothballed base in Sovetskaya Gavan. A ready-made railway and highway lead to it. There is no housing. It is only necessary to restore the base, deepen the Tatar Strait in the narrowest place (the depth there is a little more than 10 m - this is not enough for an SSBN).

      And leave Vilyuchinsk only as a base for multipurpose nuclear submarines, so that they are on duty off Hawaii and the US West Coast.
      1. Ugochaves
        Ugochaves 28 December 2020 16: 22
        +2
        Was several years ago in the village of Ilyich, he is closer to Vanino. There is a complete akhtung, everything is destroyed.
  2. rocket757
    rocket757 28 December 2020 10: 22
    +1
    So it's an old sore corn ...
    You can dream, only it will be too far from reality.
    1. Lech from Android.
      Lech from Android. 28 December 2020 10: 29
      -1
      Free business from taxes for several years there ... invest in profitable business projects, attract people ... there would be a desire and a spoonful of honey ... you just need to make efforts and achieve results.
      And so sitting on the couch, of course, it's easy for us to talk on the couch ... you can't drive the young there without incentive ... the old people no longer have the strength ... to send the Chinese with Uzbeks there to work. what
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 28 December 2020 10: 37
        +3
        Quote: Lech from Android.
        Free business from taxes

        Large monopolies have already formed ... they do not differ in philanthropy and tolerance !!! Anything that prevents them from making a profit, they will trample .... although, to say that now they are limited in their actions, well, very much a stretch.
        The controlling, regulating system works, practically, for them ...
        Simply changing the situation will not work.
        This situation suits the SYSTEM, for many reasons, if you do not take into account the fact that they are this system, in a significant, basic part.
      2. Doccor18
        Doccor18 28 December 2020 11: 13
        +1
        Quote: Lech from Android.
        Free business from taxes for several years there ... invest in profitable business projects, attract people ...

        All this is not even in the habitable west ...
        Day of dreams ...
      3. evgen1221
        evgen1221 28 December 2020 12: 15
        +3
        It will invest in profitable business projects, so those who are on another planet have already invested))) - reduce the salary, raise prices, social services to the bottom, there are more disenfranchised gasterbayters and most importantly prays to the braces)))
  3. apro
    apro 28 December 2020 10: 27
    0
    The solution is simple. To start a bzhrk. And less money. And more stealth. But it turns out to ensure the release of the plbr almost the fleet cost with the bases ...
  4. Sahalinets
    Sahalinets 28 December 2020 10: 29
    +12
    The stupidity is amazing. I won't even talk about the cost of construction on a wild coast, far from civilization, and I won't even talk about logistics ... It's just such a map:

    But apparently our strategists will be purely summer ... laughing
    1. Vladimir_2U
      Vladimir_2U 28 December 2020 10: 45
      +2
      You didn't understand anything! There will also be a mini-icebreaker! laughing
      1. NDR-791
        NDR-791 28 December 2020 11: 20
        +3
        wassat wassat wassat ... From the message of the US Strategic Command:
        - "The Russians have released an icebreaker, they are cutting off the raid."
        - "Announce missile alert !!!" hi
    2. Lex_is
      Lex_is 28 December 2020 11: 04
      +3
      The 171st separate submarine brigade was quite based on Marchekan in Nagaev Bay.
      1. Sahalinets
        Sahalinets 28 December 2020 11: 20
        +7
        Well, look in the Internet what happened to this brigade in May (!) 1968 from the ice movement. Horns and legs. I'm not saying that the ice exit of small submarines of Project 613 and huge strategists is clearly not the same thing! laughing
        And without that it was hard there:
        If we say that Nagaev Bay was not comfortable for submariners at that time, it means nothing to say. More or less calm were actually the winter months from December to the end of April, when the bay was encased in ice and the submarine's navigation was provided by the icebreaker "Khabarov" attached to us, and 3 summer months from May to July.

        From August to December, hurricanes of excellent ferocity burst into our trap of ten-mile length, which was represented by the bay, hurrying and pushing each other, they tried to push her onto the shore.
      2. Runway
        Runway 28 December 2020 11: 23
        +1
        We went to Kamchatka for the winter.
      3. Vladimir_2U
        Vladimir_2U 28 December 2020 11: 24
        +3
        Quote: Lex_is
        the 171st separate brigade was quite based

        Yes, one pier for 7 submarines. I understand, of course, that was the time, but now that time is different.
      4. Cyril G ...
        Cyril G ... 28 December 2020 13: 33
        +1
        We (PSKR 54 ODNPSKR) in my memory in Morchekan a couple of times became no more. Stood in the commercial port of Magadan. In the period 1996-2001 ...
    3. Doctor
      Doctor 28 December 2020 11: 09
      0
      It's just a map like this:

      Hike a new base of the nuclear submarine should be placed in Magadan. winked
      1. frog
        frog 28 December 2020 11: 18
        -1
        It was already, it did not end well .... True, not a submarine, but just a submarine.
        1. Doctor
          Doctor 28 December 2020 11: 27
          0
          It was already, it did not end well .... True, not a submarine, but just a submarine.

          What happened to her?
          1. frog
            frog 28 December 2020 11: 28
            +2
            Yes, they already said wink
        2. frog
          frog 28 December 2020 15: 41
          +1
          Someone, on a hike, is happy with how the boats were ice ... shuffled wink
      2. Aleksandr1971
        Aleksandr1971 28 December 2020 16: 58
        +4
        1) There is no railway to Magadan. This will lead to the fact that the operation of the SSBN base in Magadan will not be cheaper than the "golden" Vilyuchinsk.
        2) The base in Vilyuchinsk is not only SSBNs, but also SSNNs, which are supposed to hunt US submarines. It is more difficult to go out on such a hunt from Magadan than from Vilyuchinsk.
        3) The ice situation in Magadan is difficult. And from Vilyuchinsk ice-free exit all year round.
        4) Magadan is superior to Vilyuchinsk as an SSBN base only in one aspect - in protection from enemy ASW aircraft.
    4. antivirus
      antivirus 28 December 2020 11: 28
      0
      The nuclear submarines will fly over the ice from the base and dive into the depths.
    5. Aleksandr1971
      Aleksandr1971 28 December 2020 14: 00
      +3
      I will object to you.
      If we correct the idea of ​​the author of the article and move the SSBN base to Soviet Gavan, then investments in infrastructure will be large, but not astronomical. The Soviet Gavan freezes in winter, but this did not prevent it from being used by the Pacific Fleet forces in Soviet times. The depths of freezing are not prohibitive, although in winter a small road icebreaker will be required.
      By the way, ice is an excellent camouflage tool. US space reconnaissance assets, and US and Japanese PLO aircraft, will not be able to find our SSBNs under the ice.
      In addition, the US PLO aviation has the ability to conduct prospecting work in the waters east of Kamchatka, and in the waters of the Sea of ​​Okhotsk, its capabilities are negligible. Against the submarines of Japan and the United States hunting our SSBNs in the Sea of ​​Okhotsk, it is possible to establish a submarine watch and automatic tracking stations at the exit to the Sea of ​​Okhotsk from the Tatar Strait and in the La Perouse Strait.

      And the SSBN base in Vilyuchinsk is not just a suicide base, but also a guarantee that these SSBNs will not carry out an attack on the United States at the moment when it will be necessary. Given that the cost of the base in Vilyuchinsk is many times higher than in the place I propose, i.e. Soviet harbor.
      1. t-12
        t-12 28 December 2020 16: 40
        0
        but also a guarantee that these SSBNs will not carry out an attack on the United States at the moment when it will be necessary.
        The attack on the United States should be carried out by SSBNs at sea. And the base is needed for routine repairs and quick replenishment of stocks. Roughly speaking, 1 SSBN is under repair, another 1 is replenishing supplies, the rest are at sea.
        1. Aleksandr1971
          Aleksandr1971 28 December 2020 17: 46
          +4
          Taking into account the fact that 90% of the time our SSBNs are at the pier, and not in the area of ​​alert, the tactics of using ICBMs with nuclear submarines involves the launch of missiles from the pier. But before this launch, SSBNs at the base will simply die along with the base itself. (Except for the case when Russia is the first to issue the order for a nuclear missile attack on the United States).
          As for those SSBNs that will leave Vilyuchinsk into the Sea of ​​Okhotsk, in the conditions of war they will die at the exit from the Avachinskaya Bay or on the way to the Sea of ​​Okhotsk. This will happen because the United States is allocating 2-3 SSNNs for each of our SSBNs for daily tracking for decades.

          And the entrance and exit to Avacha Bay has also been under the gunpoint of the United States for decades in a position of minute readiness to strike.

          Therefore, the Vilyuchinskaya base is, in the event of war, a guaranteed victim without a chance of striking the United States. This base could fulfill its functions of striking the United States only in Soviet times, when we had a quantitative (but not qualitative) superiority over US submarines. Now we are essentially inferior tenfold, except for the submarines, formally included in the fleet, but not really combat-ready and standing at the pier.
          For the existing small crew, the base must be moved from Vilyuchinsk to a more secure location, or it must get involved in a self-destructive arms race in an attempt to surpass the United States in the number of nuclear submarines again.
          1. t-12
            t-12 28 December 2020 19: 45
            +2
            90% of the time our SSBNs are at the pier, and not in the area of ​​alert, the tactics of using ICBMs with nuclear submarines involves launching missiles from the pier.
            Then SSBNs - for scrap or in museums. And instead of them, build rocket silos, cheaper and better protected.

            Ships have to be at sea, otherwise what's the point?
            1. Sergey Valov
              Sergey Valov 28 December 2020 22: 30
              0
              "Ships have to be at sea, otherwise what's the point?" - true this way and not otherwise.
        2. Sergey Valov
          Sergey Valov 28 December 2020 22: 28
          +1
          Not so - 1/3 under repair, 1/3 - study, transitions, replenishment, minor repairs, 1/3 - military service.
        3. Cyril G ...
          Cyril G ... 29 December 2020 11: 39
          -1
          Quote: t-12
          Roughly speaking, 1 SSBN is under repair, another 1 is replenishing supplies, the rest are at sea.


          This does not happen with us. I would personally remove the SSBN to the North.
    6. g1v2
      g1v2 28 December 2020 14: 46
      0
      I just wanted to write about the ice situation and came across your map. In fact, there would be some sense only if the strategists' base was moved to the western side of Kamchatka, but then it would be difficult for the strategists to secretly enter the ocean - they would be locked in the Sea of ​​Okhotsk.
      But much more interesting, of course, is the project of the base on Matua for the dead. The construction of the DEPL base there will definitely facilitate patrolling the Sea of ​​Okhotsk and the surrounding area and will reduce the time to go to patrol sites.
      1. Aleksandr1971
        Aleksandr1971 28 December 2020 16: 39
        0
        Diesel-electric submarine base on about. Matua is good. But in the article, the main topic is where to transfer the SSBN base of the Pacific Fleet so that such a base would be: 1) more secure, including SSBNs themselves; 2) cheaper to operate.
        If SSBNs based in Vilyuchinsk are destroyed at the exit from Avacha Bay, then there will be no point in the diesel-electric submarine base on Matua Island. This means that the question of the SSBN base is more interesting, and not the diesel-electric submarine base.
        1. g1v2
          g1v2 29 December 2020 06: 08
          +1
          If we move the strategists' base inside the Sea of ​​Okhotsk, we will lose the opportunity for them to freely enter the ocean. All convenient bases there - freeze. There are no convenient supply routes. Railway and normal roads are just being built. In the south - Japan and its quite serious fleet. It is much easier to place more air defense missile systems, anti-ship complexes in Kamchatka and organize patrolling of deplants from Matua and corvettes, of which up to 12 units have been contracted for the Pacific Fleet (6 units 20380 and 6 units 20385). Plus anti-submarine aircraft and helicopters.
  5. Doctor
    Doctor 28 December 2020 10: 32
    +2
    Much controversial, but not bad overall.
    As a source material for discussion. winked
  6. Alexander Yarosh
    Alexander Yarosh 28 December 2020 10: 59
    0
    fuser ...
  7. Tests
    Tests 28 December 2020 10: 59
    +2
    In many respects I agree with the author. Under the Stalinist Constitution, the building would have been built. And today, when the impression is created, it may be wrong that the Government of the Russian Federation and the executive bodies of power of the constituent entities of the Russian Federation have only one great goal - correctly, to cut the budgets into the right pockets ...
    The other day we were happy that Zvezdochka had rolled out the modernized Bars from workshop 15, and they guessed the weather. In a day it was -26 in Severodvinsk, in Naryan-Mar to -36. Today we received a message that in the shores of Novaya Zemlya the fishing trawler "Onega", with the postscript Murmansk, sank, 17 people from the crew are listed as missing, only 2 fishermen were rescued ... Her Majesty Arctic does not understand jokes. .about." discussed that from the Pacific Fleet missiles from "Borey" for the first time on Chiju arrived for sure. True, the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation forgot to tell that the servicemen from the landfill in Nyonoks, that flew to Chizha, raked out of their apartments, garages and summer cottages of their friends and their friends, electric heaters, both oil and blowers. In the tents that the peasants had to live in the tundra, the RF Ministry of Defense did not provide for blowers. Indeed, back in the 60-70s of the last century on Chizha, the barracks, the boiler room and other buildings of the Polygon were not built at all from the tarpaulin of tattered sails and the fin thrown out by the sea by White. Yes, only in the 21st century, these buildings are "not quite combat-ready" ... From Severodvinsk and Nyonoksa, either by ship or by helicopter to Chizha, much less than from Sovetsoy Gavan or Komsomolsk-on-Amur to Vilyuchinsk ..
  8. iouris
    iouris 28 December 2020 11: 03
    0
    We need a well-protected area of ​​the ocean or sea, from which the nuclear submarine can launch missiles before it is destroyed.
    1. antivirus
      antivirus 28 December 2020 11: 31
      -1
      it will be almost easier to build a large fleet for control at 1-2 thousand km from the coast. than the number of pennants a new base ..
    2. Aleksandr1971
      Aleksandr1971 28 December 2020 14: 09
      +2
      There are 3 of these districts: Lake Ladoga; 2) Lake Onega; 3) the Caspian.
      All these reservoirs are not accessible either to the enemy fleet, or to enemy submarines, or to the enemy PLO aircraft.

      The first 2 are better because they require a shorter distance to the US. And in the Caspian, ICBMs are needed with a very long, essentially suborbital, flight range.
      The shallow depths of Ladoga and Onega are good, because the SSBN must merge with the bottom while on duty. The Caspian Sea has both shallow and deep depths.

      Also, for all three reservoirs SSBNs are enough to build without a nuclear power plant, without acoustic stealth systems, without torpedo weapons. Solid savings.
  9. Dimy4
    Dimy4 28 December 2020 11: 05
    0
    ... decisions of a potential enemy

    Apolitical. Now in high circles it is customary to say a partner, albeit a probable one, but a "partner".
    1. Aleksandr1971
      Aleksandr1971 28 December 2020 16: 42
      +2
      The likely adversary or "partner" is not shy about calling Russia his enemy.

      And why is our leadership playing a miserable politeness?
      1. Dimy4
        Dimy4 28 December 2020 17: 06
        +1
        The likely adversary or "partner" is not shy about calling Russia his enemy.

        And this is sarcasm, I absolutely agree with the author. We must call a spade a spade, the West is our enemy and we shouldn't even try, in the hope that it will improve, call it a friend, partner, etc. Not to be corrected, the whole history of our country is proof of that.
  10. 7,62x54
    7,62x54 28 December 2020 11: 09
    -1
    Scharnhorst is a Nazi ship. Bad associations.
    1. frog
      frog 28 December 2020 11: 17
      +1
      Or is it Gerhard Johann David von ....?
      1. 7,62x54
        7,62x54 28 December 2020 11: 37
        0
        So zealous to write about ships is unlikely to be a reformer.
    2. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 28 December 2020 12: 29
      +1
      Quote: 7,62x54
      Scharnhorst is a Nazi ship. Bad associations.

      1. Bashkirkhan
        Bashkirkhan 28 December 2020 12: 39
        +5
        The commentator 7,62x54 does not know about Coronel, sadly.

  11. Sergey Valov
    Sergey Valov 28 December 2020 11: 13
    +6
    Building a base for SSBNs from scratch in an open field? How many years will it take? I am silent about money, or rather about their absence. Wouldn't it be cheaper to create a powerful anti-submarine defense in Vilyuchinsk? As for the destruction of the base by sea by an adversary, there is no need to be afraid of this, all the same, the base will be destroyed at the very beginning of a nuclear conflict. Alas, this is a harsh reality. Another question is that in the Sea of ​​Okhotsk it is possible to create something like a temporary base for preliminary deployment.
    PS. If we seriously consider theses like “Gryaznaya Bay can be renamed”, “to suggest that readers connect the fate of the strategic base of the Russian Navy with the image of sunny Magadan,” then it is better not to raise such serious topics.
    1. 2 Level Advisor
      2 Level Advisor 28 December 2020 11: 31
      +2
      Yes, I agree, Sergey completely "And it will not be cheaper to create a powerful anti-submarine defense in Vilyuchinsk?"
      And plus, the author is moving the 25th division somewhere, but for some reason he forgot about the 10th, or do we no longer need the cover of the Borey submarines?
    2. Sahalinets
      Sahalinets 28 December 2020 11: 51
      +2
      The fact of the matter is that in the absence of a sane PLO, American submarines will also pass into the Sea of ​​Okhotsk. And with its presence, and even with the deployed FOSS, it will be possible to secure the approaches to Kamchatka.
    3. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... 28 December 2020 13: 21
      +1
      Quote: Sergey Valov
      the image of sunny Magadan "


      I served in Magadan, and I liked it there much more than in Petropavlovsk. In addition, it is really sunny, there are 270 clear days a year.
    4. Aleksandr1971
      Aleksandr1971 28 December 2020 14: 11
      +2
      It's stupid to build in an open field.
      But next to the Nevelskoy Strait in the Tatar Strait there is an old abandoned military base Sovetskaya Gavan. There are already cars and railways leading to it, and there is housing.
    5. Aleksandr1971
      Aleksandr1971 28 December 2020 16: 48
      +5
      Russia does not have sufficient forces for the defense system of Vilyuchinsk.
      In the event of war, nuclear strikes will fall on Vilyuchinsk, and ground infrastructure will be reduced to dust. And under water, for each of our SSBNs, the Americans will put up 5 pieces of SSNS hunters.
      That is, no matter how much you worked on the defense of Vilyuchinsk, you will not kill the US economy.
      The transfer of the SSBN base to the Tatar Strait region will give some geographical head start in the defense of our SSBNs, but not 100%.

      A 100% guarantee of the survival of our SSBNs and the possibility of inflicting or a nuclear strike on the United States is only the transfer of the SSBN bases of the Russian Federation to inland waters.
      For some reason, the members of this forum delicately refuse to discuss such a possibility both on this thread and on other threads of this site.
      1. Sergey Valov
        Sergey Valov 28 December 2020 17: 50
        +1
        Basically, we have two inland water bodies - Baikal and the White Sea. With the White Sea, everything is relatively simple - with a minimum of costs, you can be based in Severodvinsk. In my opinion, it is unreasonable to even consider Baikal, because the construction of a shipyard and a base at it (to keep costs to a minimum) and then boats will cost an astronomical amount plus considerable years. It is much easier and cheaper (if the decision is made not to base strategists on Vilyuchinsk) to build up the ground component of the strategic nuclear forces.
        As for the discussion of this issue on the forum, this is essentially a chatter of pike vests (no offense, please drinks ) on the practical solution of this issue as not influencing.
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. Aleksandr1971
          Aleksandr1971 28 December 2020 18: 27
          +2
          US nuclear submarines may well enter the White Sea.
          And you do not consider the reservoirs of Ladoga, Onega and the Caspian Sea.
          On Ladoga, the depth is up to 230 m, on Onega - up to 120 m. This is enough for an SSBN. (The usual depth of combat alert is 100-300 m.) And in the Caspian the depths are up to 1,5 km. More than enough.

          I consider the Caspian as an inland water body because there are no NATO naval forces there. And the fleets of the Caspian states are dismissively small. And the Caspian states themselves, unlike the countries of Eastern Europe, do not have the opportunity to clearly dare to Russia and deploy their ASW forces there in opposition to us.
          1. Sergey Valov
            Sergey Valov 28 December 2020 19: 04
            +4
            By the way, the North of the Caspian is shallow. But - Turkey is very close, and Iran can hardly be called a friendly state. There really are no serious fleets there, but NATO ASW aircraft will easily fly there. And the Caspian Sea has one thing in common with Ladoga and Onega - a complete lack of shipbuilding capacities for the construction of SSBNs and the impossibility of delivering them there by waterways, which makes them all related to Baikal. Of course, NATO nuclear submarines can penetrate into the White Sea, of course, theoretically, but the Northern Fleet is quite capable of closing it, even now.
            1. Aleksandr1971
              Aleksandr1971 29 December 2020 06: 35
              0
              I will object to you.
              1. Shallow water (from 100 to 400 m.) Is an ideal place for SSBN combat duty because SSBN, nestling to the bottom, becomes the least noticeable against the background of the surrounding relief. And the depths of more than 600 m are simply unattainable for submarines (except for the deceased "Komsomolets"). Therefore, the placement of SSBNs in the northern Caspian is ideal. By the way, since 2016, the Caspian for ships that are not fishing or developing the bottom, has the status of the sea. That is, the regime of the 12-mile border of neighboring countries applies to the Caspian for purely sea vessels. Therefore, in the Caspian Sea, warships and submarines can navigate the entire water area, just not to enter the 12-mile territorial waters.
              2. Turkey and Iran are not friendly states. But the Caspian Sea has a status in which non-Caspian countries cannot have their own navies in its waters. That is, Turkey is excluded. Iran remains. But Iran does not have attack submarines that pose a threat to surface ships in the Caspian. And even if Iran does have such submarines, they: 1. will not threaten our SSBNs because of Iran's hostility to the United States; 2. Iran's submarines are too weak due to technological backwardness and are an excellent acoustic target for our ASW forces.

              How do you like this White Sea? Even if the forces of the Northern Fleet can partially protect the waters of the White Sea from US submarines. After all, the internal waters of Russia, in principle, do not need to be protected from ANY US forces.
              1. Sergey Valov
                Sergey Valov 29 December 2020 08: 26
                0
                I like the White Sea with the already existing systems for basing and building SSBNs.
            2. Aleksandr1971
              Aleksandr1971 29 December 2020 06: 40
              0
              About the impossibility of delivering SSBNs to Ladoga and Onega.
              Read about the depths of the Neva, Ladoga and Onega rivers. And also about the man-made canals surrounding this lake. It is quite possible to carry out SSBNs into these lakes now.

              Some locations will require dredging. It is not cheap. But this is routine daily work. I myself live in Barnaul and I know that on the Ob river I have to deepen the raid of the Barnaul river port every 3-5 years. However, this is a penny compared to the defeat of Russia in a nuclear war.

              And now, dear Sergei Valov, tell me that for the sake of saving on dredging works, you can endure the death of Russia in a nuclear war against the United States.
              1. Aleksandr1971
                Aleksandr1971 29 December 2020 06: 55
                0
                NATO aircraft can reach the Caspian Sea. But this option is possible only in a nuclear war, when no one cares about the neutrality of the third world countries.

                But in peacetime, NATO ASW aircraft will not be able to patrol the Caspian Sea on a regular basis. For this is forbidden to them.

                In case of war, NATO ASW aircraft must work hard to find our SSBNs. And in the Atlantic and Pacific Ocean, this does not take much effort, because our SSBNs are already on the US front sight continuously for decades.

                By the time US ASW aircraft fly from Naples (Italy) or from Rota (Spain) to the Caspian Sea, our SSBNs will have time to shoot and unload their crews in Kaspiysk or Astrakhan.
              2. Sergey Valov
                Sergey Valov 29 December 2020 08: 30
                0
                What does the death of Russia have to do with it ??? I believe that it is necessary either to build up the anti-submarine forces of the fleet, to preserve the ability of SSBNs to go to sea from existing bases, or to develop the ground-based component of the strategic nuclear forces.
        3. Aleksandr1971
          Aleksandr1971 29 December 2020 06: 50
          +1
          About Baikal.

          1. The astronomical cost of building a shipyard on Lake Baikal should not scare you more than the prospect of your country's defeat in a nuclear war can scare you.

          2. Believe it is possible not to build on Baikal after the construction of the last hydroelectric power station on the Angara from the general cascade of the Angarsk hydroelectric power stations is completed by 2025. The new hydroelectric power station will flood the last shallow areas on the Angara. And it will be quite possible to deliver large-tonnage vessels to Baikal through the system of locks. And nobody canceled the possibility of dredging works.

          3. On Baikal it is possible to place not a nuclear submarine, but a RPKNS with a DE GEM.

          4. I am against the pollution of Baikal, but the media are trying to present Baikal as a "sacred cow" or an icon. It is not right. For nature is not a "temple, but a workshop."
          It is quite possible to use Baikal for national economic and defense needs, combining it with environmental protection measures. After all, the existence of Russia is more valuable than the existence of Baikal as a part of Russia.
          1. Sergey Valov
            Sergey Valov 29 December 2020 08: 39
            0
            This is all theory. It is necessary to consider, and not only money, but also purely military problems. I am not an expert in this matter, you, most likely, too, because the pros in the planning, operation and application of strategic nuclear forces at this forum most likely do not appear.
  12. businessv
    businessv 28 December 2020 11: 19
    -3
    To address the issues of safe basing, deployment and maintenance by existing and future SSBNs, it is necessary to turn the Sea of ​​Okhotsk into safe inland waters, transforming the Kuril sieve into an insurmountable spot for submarines, ships and aircraft of crooks of all stripes. Including from the Hokkaido side.
    Great article! Logically grounded, informative and analytically designed! Thanks to Mr. Scharnhorst! Especially for the name of the alleged base - "Putin" his name, our bureaucrats will now definitely notice, and together with him the article itself will at least glimpse it! If only you would not overlook! I don’t think that the authorities will decide on such expenses, but at least think about the issues and problems raised, it’s high time! good soldier
  13. Anachoret
    Anachoret 28 December 2020 11: 59
    +3
    The 2nd base in the Sea of ​​Okhotsk is quite justified for viability, so the author can be favored for the voiced idea, but the military infrastructure needs to be tightened up for economic projects, and not vice versa.
    Therefore, first it is necessary to think over and launch into operation large infrastructure projects in the region, and relying on them to think over a place for a second base
  14. Land defence
    Land defence 28 December 2020 12: 02
    +17
    The author's anxiety for the strategists heading to the Sea of ​​Okhotsk is understandable. But Magadan ... Little is real.
    There is an alternative way - to build up the escort fleet, incl. underwater, and BS move to the depths of the Pacific Ocean. In terms of money and time, it will probably be the same.
    And the bases on the coast of Okhotsk are really needed, only small ones.
    Thanks to the author for an interesting topic. good hi
  15. evgen1221
    evgen1221 28 December 2020 12: 11
    +1
    Do not transfer one fig without complex measures can not do. If the economy of the country was not built in person, ports in any convenient places could be set up. And so. Just sit under strong air defense and pro and not reflect.
  16. Alexey RA
    Alexey RA 28 December 2020 12: 17
    0
    Before the revolution, Russian naval strongholds were not more threatened than the twelve-inch battleships of the Kaiser and Mikado.

    Port Arthur and Libava clearly disagree. smile
    And the ground defense of Vladivostok in the first half of the XNUMXth century. also showed quite well what the admirals in the Far East were really afraid of.
  17. Falx
    Falx 28 December 2020 12: 53
    -1
    Why are Baikal Bay and Gryazevaya Bay on the northern tip of Sakhalin so bad?
    what about the weather, ice in winter and depths?
    With the infrastructure, I understand everything, to build a good bridge to Sakhalin and to throw the iron pot there God himself ordered. has long been. and this is at least more realistic than pulling a pot in sunny Magadan
    1. Sahalinets
      Sahalinets 28 December 2020 13: 35
      +1
      Freezes seven months a year.
      1. Falx
        Falx 28 December 2020 13: 53
        +1
        Well ... then you can't build a Base there.
        Is this even possible on Sakhalin somewhere? I mean ice conditions and weather conditions. the island is rather big ...

        let's leave infrastructural issues behind the scenes, they certainly need to be solved regardless of the base, but this is a different topic ...
        on the other hand, the construction of a new large base without a stable railway connection is not very realistic and defective ...
        1. Sahalinets
          Sahalinets 28 December 2020 14: 35
          +2
          We don't have suitable harbors. I'm not even talking about the fact that such a base will be in the area of ​​operation of tactical aviation from bases in Hokkaido.
          1. Falx
            Falx 28 December 2020 14: 39
            -1
            and what about Korsakov? is he freezing?
            I understand that it is close to Japan, but hypothetically?
            1. Sahalinets
              Sahalinets 28 December 2020 14: 56
              +2
              Does not freeze. But it is very small and completely unprotected by the shores.
            2. Aleksandr1971
              Aleksandr1971 28 December 2020 17: 04
              +2
              In addition, Korsakov, like Primorye, is completely under the radar dome of Japan and the US TAAD system. Also Primorye and Sakhalin are within the range of the coastal aviation of Japan and the United States, as well as within the range of short-range missiles, which both the United States and Japan have.
              In other words, Primorsky Territory and Sakhalin Island as SSBN bases are contraindicated.

              If you refer to the Northern Fleet base in the Murmansk region (which is at gunpoint of missiles and US aviation), then our base there is simply out of poverty - nowhere else does the Russian fleet in that region have ice-free harbors.

              And again my one hundred times voiced on the topic under discussion - to transfer our SSBNs to inland waters. Only there they are provided with a safe watch.
              1. Falx
                Falx 28 December 2020 17: 26
                0
                Well, about Korsakov, I hypothetically asked. it is clear that he, like Kaliningrad, is at gunpoint. If you do something in this direction on Sakhalin, then only on the northern tip of the island, and it freezes, for as much as 7 months a year ..
                and in other respects there is only Magadan or Okhotsk, and there it will be even more expensive to pull a cast iron than a bridge to Sakhalin ...
              2. Svetlana
                Svetlana 28 December 2020 23: 29
                -2
                Quote: Aleksandr1971
                transfer our SSBNs to inland waters.

                The Gulf of Lawrence in Chukotka is inland waters. The width is about 7 km, the length is more than 20 km. It is quite deep-water (there are depths of more than 30 m) and there is an airfield on the shore. It can carry SSBN combat duty.
                1. Aleksandr1971
                  Aleksandr1971 29 December 2020 06: 59
                  0
                  Being inland waters and being inland waters legally are two big differences. In conditions when the United States will come to your soul and the soul of your and my children, submarines and other forces of the United States will not give a damn about the legal borders of Russia.
                  The US elite, judging by the logic of the development of events, has clearly gone astray, and is clearly leading the case to a war against Russia, explaining to the whole world that Russia is bad and that Russia should be punished.
                  1. Svetlana
                    Svetlana 29 December 2020 09: 02
                    -2
                    Quote: Aleksandr1971
                    submarines and other US forces will not give a damn about Russia's legal boundaries.

                    To prevent the enemy's underwater vehicles from penetrating the Gulf of Lawrence, the entrance to it can be blocked with nets and mined (see the film Pirates of the 20th century).
    2. Aleksandr1971
      Aleksandr1971 28 December 2020 14: 14
      -2
      It has already been announced that building a bridge to Sakhalin is not a wind of money. And probably thereby lead the country to rebellion against the authorities. Build a bridge there at your own expense.
      1. Falx
        Falx 28 December 2020 14: 27
        0
        what are you saying? someone has already announced ...
        infrastructure development means jobs now, development and jobs in the future. The bridge to Sakhalin and the joining of Sakhalin to the railway network are a powerful incentive for the development of the Khabarovsk Territory and Sakhalin itself. instead, we keep huge funds in a "box", where they are useless ...
        1. Ugochaves
          Ugochaves 28 December 2020 16: 39
          0
          What are you saying repeat the development of infrastructure is of course good, and the people of Sakhalin are good. just what will you carry on this bridge? Sakhalin do you know Crimea
          1. Falx
            Falx 28 December 2020 17: 27
            0
            You are wrong! Now Sakhalin is our Crimea! Or Crimeans are dearer to us?
            1. SovAr238A
              SovAr238A 28 December 2020 21: 35
              -2
              Quote: Falx
              You are wrong! Now Sakhalin is our Crimea! Or Crimeans are dearer to us?


              Just over the newly built bridge - 99% of Sakhalin residents will quickly leave for the mainland with all their belongings ...
              They just live now because it is too expensive to leave, if with the acquired ...
              And it’s a pity to abandon what you have acquired.
              So they live ...
              1. Sahalinets
                Sahalinets 29 December 2020 01: 03
                +1
                Don't write nonsense, pliz!
        2. Aleksandr1971
          Aleksandr1971 28 December 2020 16: 53
          0
          That is who voiced

          The bridge to Sakhalin was estimated at 3,5 times more expensive than the Crimean bridge. tp: //vestnikk.ru/society/people/31345-stoimost-mosta-na-sahalin-ocenili-v-35-raza-dorozhe-krymskogo.html

          There is simply not enough cargo for the bridge to Sakhalin. tps: //tass.ru/ekonomika/5560245.

          About the incentive - this is stupidity. Buy yourself 20 pieces of baby cots. Will this be an incentive for you to make 20 children?
          1. Falx
            Falx 28 December 2020 17: 28
            -1
            the fact that the bridge to Sakhalin is several times more expensive than the Crimean one, I do not dispute. only the price of the issue is not an argument.
            or can then give Sakhalin to the Japanese altogether. they will not refuse ... and it is cheaper for us ...

            otherwise Sakhalin, Kamchatka and all of Primorye need to be developed. And any development is, first of all, infrastructure ... but there will be infrastructure, there will be private investments, and there will be trade flows ...
  18. Cyril G ...
    Cyril G ... 28 December 2020 13: 14
    +2
    Twelve MRK, MPK and minesweepers of still Soviet projects and buildings from the OVR brigade can theoretically be considered reliable protection from submarines of the Los Angeles, Sea Wolf, and Virginia types. Coastal anti-ship missile systems, S-400 air defense systems and MiG-31 interceptors will not allow the American AUG to fire a pistol shot.


    Well, like that, only the MiG-31 there is a squadron. And it is still not known where the MiG-31 link was allocated for service in Anadyr (a / p Coal Mines)

    Nagaev Bay and the port city of Magadan located in its depths.

    Once there was a separate division of diesel-electric submarines and PBPL pr.310. In 1997, when we were there in the service of the PBPL, it was thrown ashore and plundered. The submarine was dragged away, the coastal infrastructure was plundered ...
  19. Ryaruav
    Ryaruav 28 December 2020 13: 14
    -1
    to paramushir from the sea of ​​Okhotsk
  20. Region-25.rus
    Region-25.rus 28 December 2020 13: 26
    +1
    The choice of the location for the future SSBN base is obvious - near the village of Lazarev on the shore of the narrowest point of the Nevelskoye Strait.
    The author .... the author has not been there in the winter? It is strange that in winter we made the transition to Okhotka from the ocean side. Oh yes, there is ice in the strait in winter. Convicts on it "jerks" arranged to the mainland.
    Lazarev and Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky are practically at the same latitude
    - belay wassat here ... that's it ... I need to call the orderlies
  21. Scharnhorst
    28 December 2020 13: 53
    +1

    Civil (Vadim)
    No money left. On this, gentlemen and comrades can disagree.

    If Peter the Great had entrusted the construction of Petersburg and Kronstadt to the boyars from the Duma or the clerks of the Pushkar order (by analogy with the accountants from the Ministry of Finance of the empire, or the USSR, or modern Russia), the answer would sound the same as yours!
  22. Carib
    Carib 28 December 2020 14: 09
    0
    By the way, the radar on the nearest 600m hill is also convenient for air defense and coastal defense, and missile bunkers in other hills.
  23. Scharnhorst
    28 December 2020 14: 27
    0
    Responding to climate skepticism. This year it was reported in the media that the Laptev Sea was not covered with ice back in December, so there were abnormal snowfalls. Who of the experts has not heard about the global trend of climate change on planet Earth towards warming? This is confirmed not only by British scientists. The northerly winds in the Eirinean Bay in winter will push the cracked ice into the open sea. At the beginning of the article, the only snapshot of this bay. Continuous ice fields outside the bay due to the so-called bottoming, the wind drives ice and cold water from the surface into the sea, and it is replaced by warmer water from deep water. This phenomenon is also familiar in the Black Sea, only the wind drives warm water to Turkey, and in June on the South Coast of the Crimea, water from the lower layers is +8 degrees. There is confirmed research that the human body tolerates more severe frosts with lower air humidity, so -30 degrees in dry air is equal to -15 degrees in humid air. With the normal organization of the service and a competent approach, there are no frostbite on the "trefoil". Well, the submarine is not a surface ship, about 10% of the hull is above the water, no high masts with radars, no flat decks and superstructures for icing. Ask the Kamchadals about the amount of precipitation.
    1. Sahalinets
      Sahalinets 28 December 2020 15: 16
      +1
      Will the Chinese build ground communications to this base of yours? You would at least look at the map. And they would also take into account that there is a very complex relief.
    2. Region-25.rus
      Region-25.rus 28 December 2020 15: 41
      +1
      Well, yes ... of course you've heard about warming (no sarcasm). But (!!!) and if an abnormally cold winter happens then ... what? All. Freeze into ice and dry "carp"? Yes, we telegraph our "partners" - "You’re there, if you don’t start yet! We have some kind of force majeure! We thought in a year or two, due to warming, we would plant coconut palms, we even plowed the beds, but it’s like turned around! " And, in which case it is much easier to plug the entrances and exits from the strait. I’m not even talking about mine danger - it’s very possible to sneak up on the sly and throw a pair of hydrophones (something similar has already been done in the Sea of ​​Okhotsk) at the entrance and exit from the strait. And then just sit in a warm office and write down - "who, when, with whom, and where." And by the way, I served there nearby in 93. From Vanino 60 km inland. And then, in civilian life, both the Sea of ​​Okhotsk and the Bering Sea proceeded to the strait of the same name, and between Sakhalin and the mainland for 5 years each navigation, from May to the end of November, they wandered back and forth to the Amur and along it, and from the Amur to China. And in winter in those parts I will tell you ... it is very "fun" to partly freezing temperatures.
      There is confirmed research that the human body tolerates more severe frosts with lower air humidity, so -30 degrees in dry air is equal to -15 degrees in humid air.
      Well, it's like .... beyond the bounds! I'm talking about confirmed research! lol I certainly do not deny that this is not true! Rather, on the contrary, I confirm that this is exactly the case, but (!!), I've lived the first 42 years of my life on the coast of the Sea of ​​Japan, and I knew about it from the age of five. My parents knew, and before that, barely 300 years at least, people were aware of this! And it was confirmed by research only now?))))))))
      1. Sergey Valov
        Sergey Valov 28 December 2020 15: 49
        +2
        Frost in a dry climate is an insidious thing, you can endure it, of course, easier, only your ears then curl up in the same way, as in a wet one,
        1. Region-25.rus
          Region-25.rus 28 December 2020 16: 12
          0
          I readily believe, and I even know cases from friends and relatives (they live in northern Kazakhstan and the steppes of the Altai Territory). In February, they were loading at the Ore pier (Primorsky Territory). That rescued two fucking ... woodpeckers from the crew. One of them fell overboard drunk, the other, sober, but also of a dim-witted mind, rushed to save him. In general, people jumped up to save. A couple of geeks without hats. Frost about -15, "breeze" for 20m / s (it was fun). It seems that the total is -35. So the "chirik" (the fourth mechanic) for 15 minutes of bustle on the street, his right ear (facing the wind) turned black with sweat. I almost kicked into the superstructure, so that at least put on a hat, but .. did not have time.
          1. Sergey Valov
            Sergey Valov 28 December 2020 16: 29
            0
            I was in Transbaikalia a couple of times in winter, so I was instructed on how to dress and behave on the street.
  24. Alien From
    Alien From 28 December 2020 14: 34
    -1
    From me to the author a definite plus! Yes, fantasy, but not without common sense!
  25. The comment was deleted.
  26. Radikal
    Radikal 28 December 2020 15: 23
    -1
    This decision will by itself push the government towards the long-awaited construction of a railway bridge to Sakhalin.

    To the author of the article.
    The first thing they will do before bombing "your base" in the village of Lazarev is to bomb this bridge! If we are to connect Sakhalin with the mainland, then by a tunnel, as the Generalissimo was going to do. It's a pity I didn't have time. sad
    1. Sahalinets
      Sahalinets 28 December 2020 17: 02
      0
      Actually, Lazarev is on the mainland. wink
  27. Old26
    Old26 28 December 2020 17: 15
    +3
    Quote: ccsr
    and whether they will turn out to be an order of magnitude more than those that we are currently spending on the maintenance of the existing base.

    You are an optimist, comrade. It is worth asking the question, will it (cost) be 2, or even 3 (and possibly more) orders of magnitude more expensive ...

    Quote: Aleksandr1971
    If we correct the idea of ​​the author of the article and move the SSBN base to Soviet Gavan, then investments in infrastructure will be large, but not astronomical.

    Why not then return to basing in the same Pavlovsky bay. Strategists once stood there. And the infrastructure will not have to start from scratch?

    Quote: Aleksandr1971
    But I substantiated the idea of ​​transferring the SSBN bases to Ladoga and Onega lakes and to Baikal. This is better than the hypothetical base in the Nevelskoy Strait.

    It is highly doubtful that it will be any better. Calculate how much from the mouth to Lake Baikal and how you will need to go up the river.

    Quote: Aleksandr1971
    There are 3 of these districts: Lake Ladoga; 2) Lake Onega; 3) the Caspian.
    All these reservoirs are not accessible either to the enemy fleet, or to enemy submarines, or to the enemy PLO aircraft.

    And will the SSBNs be dragged into Lake Onega or Ladoga, like barge haulers? Or you can use zero transport. Or the hydrology of these rivers (Neva, Svir) does not interest you at all ?? And the fact that these lakes freeze from November-December to April is also irrelevant?

    Quote: Aleksandr1971
    The first 2 are better because they require a shorter distance to the US. And in the Caspian, ICBMs are needed with a very long, essentially suborbital, flight range.
    What nonsense are you writing. A conventional SLBM with a range of 9-10 thousand km reaches the United States. And your planned range is over 20-30 thousand kilometers. There really are no such SLBMs. Like ICBMs with such a range

    Quote: Aleksandr1971
    Also, for all three reservoirs SSBNs are enough to build without a nuclear power plant, without acoustic stealth systems, without torpedo weapons. Solid savings.

    And 3 SLBMs, as they used to build diesel ones? Of course, sheer savings. Instead of 1 nuclear submarine with 16 SLBMs, build 5 diesel engines ...
    1. Sergey Valov
      Sergey Valov 28 December 2020 18: 02
      -1
      "Instead of 1 nuclear submarine with 16 SLBMs, build 5 diesel engines ... Solid savings" - but here the question is not so simple, because the number of targets for the foe increases dramatically, and the reliability of the system increases (one boat with 16 missiles will break down and crash, and out of five, every two, three will be on the move), and the boats will sharply decrease in size, which will favorably affect their visibility and therefore vulnerability, and many other factors exist. Although, I agree, it's not just that the whole world builds boats mainly for 16 missiles.
    2. Aleksandr1971
      Aleksandr1971 28 December 2020 18: 13
      0
      I understand that for some reason you want to find counter-arguments to justify the need to transfer SSBNs to inland waters.
      But think, is it worth ensuring the safety of our SSBNs of certain labor costs? Something worth it.

      For inland water bodies, you can create a new SSBN project, and not go back to the options of the 50s, 60s at all. And equip each such SSBN not with three, but thirty SLBMs.

      No need to drag it. If the depth is from 10 meters, then SSBNs will pass without weapons. And where it does not work, it is possible to install pantons (floats) or dredging. This is still better than the death of an SSBN in the war on the high seas. And if you want to provide your submarine with almost complete safety, then you have to work hard, namely, drag the submarine into an enclosed reservoir.
      In addition, a separate shipyard for SSBNs can be built in the Caspian Sea. It's worth it. After all, they once built nuclear submarines at the shipyards of the middle Volga. And now diesel-electric submarines "Varshavyanka" are being built there.

      As for suborbital-range ICBMs, this is a stage already passed in the 70s. But you can repeat it. Read the wiki on this topic. In addition, it is stated that Avangard has no flight range restrictions (this is to strike the United States from an unexpected direction). You can probably equip an SLBM with an avant-garde in the Caspian.

      But what advantages are there in the duty of our SSBNs on Ladoga, Onega and the Caspian Sea ?!
      1. This is the impossibility for amers to find SSBNs by the forces of the surface, submarine fleet and PLO aviation. But now the Americans are boasting, and ours are admitting that the location of our nuclear submarines has been known continuously for decades. Sometimes (not every year) our nuclear submarines break away from the "tail" for 10-15 minutes, thus causing amer's pre-infarction state.

      2. The cheapness of construction and SSBN duty. And now each SSBN costs like a completely big new city.

      3. Full guarantee that in the event of a major war the boats will be able to shoot at the enemy. But now each of our SSBNs has a tail of 2-3 enemy SSNNs constantly aimed at him.
      1. Falcon5555
        Falcon5555 28 December 2020 19: 20
        0
        But what are the advantages of our SSBNs on duty on Ladoga, Onega?

        But what are the disadvantages: St. Petersburg drinks water from Ladoga, into which water comes from Onega. Water from Ladoga across the Neva ends up in the Baltic Sea, from which all neighboring countries and places, including St. Petersburg, eat smelt, Baltic herring and other fish. Baikal is the largest and cleanest lake on the planet (until you drove nuclear submarines there). Irkutsk drinks water from there, and cities further along the Angara and Yenisei rivers.
        1. Aleksandr1971
          Aleksandr1971 29 December 2020 07: 09
          0
          Falcon5555
          Because Peter drinks water from Ladoga and Onega, are motor boats prohibited on these lakes? Not prohibited. Petrozavodsk alone spoils the water a thousand times more than all the local ships put together.

          A diesel SSBN in motion of 2-5 knots will consume no more fuel than a surface ship 10 times smaller in displacement.

          There is no fish in the Caspian now, no water is consumed for settlements and for agriculture. You can also supply an atomic SSBN.

          Non-nuclear SSBNs can be supplied to Baikal without diesel emissions. And advice - do not pray for Baikal, because you cannot create idols for yourself.

          To summarize, you Falcon5555, you think that our SSBNs are safer to be where they are now. Will transferring to internal waters increase the safety of SSBNs?
          1. Falcon5555
            Falcon5555 29 December 2020 13: 30
            0
            Regarding the safety of SSBNs (tired of typing the abbreviation laughing ) on Ladoga and Onega, I agree with the 26th old. Baikal is deeper, but it freezes hard, and the submarine should be able to surface for safety in peacetime. Yes, and at the signal of an attack - I don't understand, even if they break through the ice, as they show in the Arctic Ocean, it still needs to be removed so that no ice blocks the exits from the mines for gentle missiles? When you open the hatches, probably not everything will be rejected. Those. before the start, the crew should crawl upstairs with scraps and crowbars, bypass everything and probably sweat a lot? This probably somehow diminishes the value of such dashing events?
            Further - I do not understand, do you propose to make boats with diesel strategic missiles? But they also need to surface and charge for a long time! In this case, they will be detected from satellites, and certainly also by aircraft side-looking radars from Finland! Or they need to swim under the RDP, which is impossible under the ice, and, according to the respected old man, they will be detected from satellites under the RDP.
            In my opinion: diesel or nuclear boats - accidents are inevitable. It's just a matter of time. There may also be warhead detonations. Now let's remember: what is the official appointment of "Poseidon" on the slides that "leaked"? Make coastal areas radioactive and uninhabitable. Which I personally think is ethically wrong, but so. And here we ourselves can make our own Petersburg with its 7+ million population, and including - which is probably nice for you - military industry and shipyards - unfit for habitation. Do we or do you personally need it?
            PS:
            And advice - do not pray for Baikal, because you cannot create idols for yourself.
            - Wise !!! laughing
  28. Radikal
    Radikal 28 December 2020 17: 30
    0
    Quote: Sahalinets
    Actually, Lazarev is on the mainland. wink

    Actually, I know what they wanted to say? lol
  29. Scharnhorst
    28 December 2020 17: 46
    0

    UgoChaves (Sergey Trotsenko)
    What are you saying feel the development of infrastructure is of course good, and the people of Sakhalin are good. just what will you carry on this bridge? Sakhalin do you know Crimea

    I'm embarrassed to ask, what is being carried on the ferry now? Or almost half a million inhabitants, not counting Gaster, let them go to their Japanese mother !? Even before the war, the Japanese built narrow-gauge railways there - what did they carry? If Sakhalin had remained with its southern neighbor, the tunnel to Hokkaido would have already functioned, do not hesitate! How much more fish can be taken from the Crimea to the mainland in comparison with Sakhalin? Are there hydrocarbons in Crimea? How much foreign investment did Crimea and Sakhalin receive? And what was transported along the CER under the tsars? There will be a bridge and a road, the rest will begin to develop by itself, So America mastered its west. And Sakhalin Oblast is one of the 13 regions of the Russian Federation and the only one in the Far East that does not receive subsidies, that is, it is self-sufficient and is a donor of the state budget.
  30. Falcon5555
    Falcon5555 28 December 2020 18: 34
    -2
    You can't find a perfect place. Any of these places are either rocket boats on duty, or their passage through the straits in full view of a potential enemy, or ridiculous depths (Nevelskoy Ave.), and, or either, evil ice and fierce winters, and in most places there are problems with roads. Therefore, and in many other ways ... it would still not be bad to build a road, even a car, to Kamchatka, but this should be combined with a normal economy, and not like now. And, as Zakamskaya once said: "A good road must be well guarded." And one more military harbor, or something like that, would be useful to have somewhere in the southwestern end of Kamchatka from the side of the Sea of ​​Okhotsk. But this is fantasy. sad
  31. Old26
    Old26 28 December 2020 20: 00
    +1
    Quote: Aleksandr1971
    In addition, Korsakov, like Primorye, is completely under the radar dome of Japan and the US TAAD system. Also Primorye and Sakhalin within the range of coastal aviation of Japan and the United States,

    So what? So Kamchatka is also within the range of the US coastal aviation? And the bases in the Sea of ​​Okhotsk too? What does it change?

    Quote: Aleksandr1971
    and also within the range of short-range missiles, which both the United States and Japan have.

    Can you tell us what the Americans have short-range missiles? Just wondering!

    Quote: Aleksandr1971
    In other words, Primorsky Territory and Sakhalin Island as SSBN bases are contraindicated.

    That is, in the USSR Ministry of Defense there were stupid people who deployed SSBN bases in addition to Kamchatka in Primorye ??

    Quote: Aleksandr1971
    If you refer to the Northern Fleet base in the Murmansk region (which is at gunpoint of missiles and US aviation), then our base there is simply out of poverty - nowhere else does the Russian fleet in that region have ice-free harbors.

    And again my one hundred times voiced on the topic under discussion - to transfer our SSBNs to inland waters. Only there they are provided with a safe watch.

    The fact that you voiced your idea 100 times, it did not become less delusional, sorry for being straightforward. Did you mention Murmansk as non-freezing and at the same time offer freezing Ladoga and Onega as home bases for submarine missile carriers? And the fact that Ladoga is covered by missiles with a range of 250 km from abroad, and Onega - with a 500 km range - is that nothing? But the distances are comparable to the range of destruction in Primorye ...
    The basing of missile boats on Lake Baikal is not even worth discussing. Delirious... In order for you to ferry missile carriers there, you need to overcome more than 4000 km, incl. about 2000 along the Yenisei and 1800 along the Angara. I understand that hydroelectric dams are true for you, seeds, but you shouldn't post anyway So frank delusion

    Quote: Sergey Valov
    "Instead of 1 nuclear submarine with 16 SLBMs, build 5 diesel engines ... Solid savings" - but here the question is not so simple, because the number of targets for the foe increases dramatically, and the reliability of the system increases (one boat with 16 missiles will break down and crash, and out of five, every two, three will be on the move), and the boats will sharply decrease in size, which will favorably affect their visibility and therefore vulnerability, and many other factors exist. Although, I agree, it's not just that the whole world builds boats mainly for 16 missiles.

    But only one atomic one is unlikely to break down, but the diesel engine will fail, what will you do. And 1 nuclear power plant will be in the ocean, where the enemy will need to look for it, and 5 diesel ones will be in lakes 60 x 100 or 100 x 200 km in size. Substituting. With an average depth of 30-50 meters. Or do you think that the enemy will not find them in such puddles?

    The boat will not decrease dramatically in size. The boat with 3 Project 629 SLBMs had a length of about 100 meters against a length of 130 (at 667A) - 170 meters (at Borey). Tracking tools allow you to see now both boats and underwater. But if in the ocean a boat can "dive" to a depth of 300-400 meters, then on Ladogo and Onega the depths are such that they can easily Nowhere to dive... The depths there are scanty

    Quote: Aleksandr1971
    I understand that for some reason you want to find counter-arguments to justify the need to transfer SSBNs to inland waters.
    But think, is it worth ensuring the safety of our SSBNs of certain labor costs? Something worth it.

    It's not worth the expense. Ladoga and Onega - freezing and scanty depth. The distance to the enemy from Ladoga is about 250 km. Yes Onega - 500 km. This is not an ocean where the boat can go to depth and in any direction. There is essentially a "puddle" here. I'm not even talking about how to guide boats through the locks of the hydroelectric power station cascade. I'm not even talking about building infrastructure on these lakes

    Quote: Aleksandr1971
    For inland water bodies, you can create a new SSBN project, and not go back to the options of the 50s, 60s at all. And equip each such SSBN not with three, but thirty SLBMs.

    Can. True, how much money will be spent on the creation of this project, how much time - I'm not talking about it. The boat with 30 missiles will have dimensions that exceed even modern SSBNs of the Borey type. Again the question. How are you going to push this "miracle" through the locks of the cascades of hydroelectric power stations on the rivers. But the increased length of the boat is, in addition to the increased displacement, an increased draft of the boat. And on the Neva and Svira in some places the depth is 4-4,5 meters.
    1. Sergey Valov
      Sergey Valov 28 December 2020 22: 48
      +1
      "And 1 nuclear power plant will be in the ocean, where the enemy will need to look for it, and 5 diesel ones will be in lakes 60 x 100 or 100 x 200 km in size,"
      “Then on Ladogo and Onega” - if you look at my other posts, you will see that I am opposed to the deployment of our boats on the lakes and the Caspian.
      In principle, I completely agree with you.
  32. Old26
    Old26 28 December 2020 20: 00
    +5
    Quote: Aleksandr1971
    No need to drag it. If the depth is from 10 meters, then SSBNs will pass without weapons. And where it does not work, it is possible to install pantons (floats) or dredging. This is still better than the death of an SSBN in the war on the high seas. And if you want to provide your submarine with almost complete safety, then you have to work hard, namely, drag the submarine into an enclosed reservoir.

    But what if the average depths on the river are 4-4,5 meters, and the maximum depths are 8-11? And why are you so sure that in these "puddles" they will be invulnerable. Distances (maximum) from the border in the Baltic - 250 - 500 km. The lakes are covered with ice for 6-7 months a year. And this is called "artel wasted labor." This is not the kind of work that will bring benefits

    Quote: Aleksandr1971
    In addition, a separate shipyard for SSBNs can be built in the Caspian Sea. It's worth it. After all, they once built nuclear submarines at the shipyards of the middle Volga. And now diesel-electric submarines "Varshavyanka" are being built there.

    A shipyard can of course be built. Money is not your own, but the state. And where? South of Makhachkala there is no place for this, and the railway sometimes passes almost a hundred meters from the coast. To the north, there is no railway. It is necessary to build not just a shipyard, but also a lot of accompanying things: roads, railways, housing, all infrastructure. And just to build 2-5 boats?

    Quote: Aleksandr1971
    After all, they once built nuclear submarines at the shipyards of the middle Volga. And now diesel-electric submarines "Varshavyanka" are being built there.

    They built small SSGNs of the "Skat" type and of course the 877th project. But this is all in the past. Moreover, now "Varshavyankas" are not being built on Krasny Sormovo, they are being built only at the Admiralty shipyards.

    Quote: Aleksandr1971
    As for suborbital-range ICBMs, this is a stage already passed in the 70s. But you can repeat it. Read the wiki on this topic. In addition, it is stated that Avangard has no flight range restrictions (this is to strike the United States from an unexpected direction). You can probably equip an SLBM with an avant-garde in the Caspian.

    So what, what is the passed stage? 3 regiments (brigade) were deployed at Baikonur, and even then they were quickly removed from service due to useless accuracy and the inability to deliver as many BGs as ICBMs could get. Repeat? What for? Everything should make sense. "Suborbital" missiles were profitable when the US did not have an early warning radar from the south. And in the direction "east-west" the rocket did not reach the specified parameters. So don't send me to Vika. I can write more about the 69th product than is written in Wikipedia.
    The fact that the statements that the "Vanguard" has no range restrictions are stupidity and fake. If Zenger's trajectory is used, the range will increase by 60 percent, but no more. And "to strike from an unexpected direction" when they have circular coverage of the early warning radar station - well, this is purely for a journalist. Searching for sensations ...
    of course, it is possible to equip non-existent SLBMs with the Vanguard. In dreams. The dimensions of the "Avangard" are such that it will not fit under the fairing of an SLBM. Both in terms of dimensions and weight characteristics ...

    Quote: Aleksandr1971

    But what advantages are there in the duty of our SSBNs on Ladoga, Onega and the Caspian Sea ?!
    1. This is the impossibility for amers to find SSBNs by the forces of the surface, submarine fleet and PLO aviation. But now the Americans are boasting, and ours are admitting that the location of our nuclear submarines has been known continuously for decades. Sometimes (not every year) our nuclear submarines break away from the "tail" for 10-15 minutes, thus causing amer's pre-infarction state.

    Why do you see only small pluses and do not see HUGE MINUSES? How to deliver boats to these bodies of water is irrelevant to you. The main thing is that there will be no American ships and planes. And the fact that satellite reconnaissance can find these boats on Ladoga and Onega for one or two is insignificant for you. Build a new shipyard and all the surrounding infrastructure for building 3-5 boats is a plus. And the fact that for this amount you can build a dozen ships for the fleet - what's this? I will say - FAT MINUS. Building a shipyard for building rocket boats on an inland water body is very creative

    Quote: Aleksandr1971

    2. The cheapness of construction and SSBN duty. And now each SSBN costs like a completely big new city.

    Yeah. And to build them in unadapted places, where there is nothing - it will be cheaper. It will be worth like a couple of new cities, if not more

    Quote: Aleksandr1971

    3. Full guarantee that in the event of a major war the boats will be able to shoot at the enemy. But now each of our SSBNs has a tail of 2-3 enemy SSNNs constantly aimed at him.

    Shoot, in which case our boats can also from the pier, for that matter
  33. Observer2014
    Observer2014 28 December 2020 20: 26
    -3
    Strategists - west of Kamchatka and east of Japan
    Strategic thinking is not open to everyone, or rather not to everyone. wink lol (Straight by Klitschko) There are many things, such as the location of the naval base in Vilyuchinsk. Personally, a conversation with one submariner about four years ago engraved in my memory on the website. He complained about the fact that they would be killed in this bay. They would not even go out to sea. I remember then told him that the Strategic Missile Forces would avenge them. In general, I don’t want to go into details, but I remember that conversation. And that person was right. And I’m not saying that I was wrong. The topic of that conversation just finds understanding. hi
  34. Evgesha
    Evgesha 28 December 2020 20: 58
    +2
    Well...
    59 days of sunshine a year ... it's a shortage of ultraviolet light
    lack of light
    therefore, either work on a watch or take people to the south (we don't have much of the south)
    temperature - and as a result, a problem with constant heating

    in short - fantasy
    1. Scharnhorst
      29 December 2020 13: 47
      -1
      The article is not about the transfer of the sanatorium from the South Coast to the Eirineyskaya Bay from the word at all. We are talking about submarines, which do not feel ultraviolet radiation for three months in a row. The multimillion-dollar Peter does not suffer from chronic rickets from his lack. Changing the nature of the solar system and the tilt of the axis of the planet Earth is not for me. In the process of natural selection, the eyes of the inhabitants of the forests and jungles have become round, the inhabitants of open spaces have narrow eyes. At the proposed latitude, representatives of different races are without any problems. The social guarantees of the modern Russian army and navy, salaries and other guarantees cannot be compared with previous generations of servicemen. I generally ignore the "South" - my cat is sleeping on the battery, this does not mean that the apartment is cold ...
      1. Igor Kobernik
        Igor Kobernik 5 January 2021 15: 55
        0
        He does not suffer from "chronic rickets" ... This is true ... But on the other hand it occupies one of the first places in Russia for mental disorders ... Statistics, alas ...
  35. Vladimir1155
    Vladimir1155 29 December 2020 00: 01
    +2
    the author is clearly a southerner ... well, just think the average annual is a couple of degrees lower ... but the main thing is that this idea of ​​the Okhotsk bastion does not stand up to any criticism, then there is no need for an APL ... you can install mobile yars on the same Kamchatka ... the purpose and task of the nuclear submarine is precisely the approach under the enemy coast and strike at close range, and not across the entire Pacific Ocean, the flight of the rocket and its fixation. Arkhangelsk) to Kamchatka, not too expensive than a transiib railway delivery to Vladivostok ... trains also travel half the world for a reason. There used to be a base in Petropavlovsk, and it worked, we moved to a more comfortable Vladivostok not for your ideas about Magadan ... so there is only one way out, to transfer almost the entire Pacific Fleet to Petropavlovsk Kamchatsky
  36. Old26
    Old26 29 December 2020 00: 44
    +3
    Quote: Sergey Valov
    You look at my other posts, you will see that I am opposed to the deployment of our boats on the lakes and the Caspian.

    So do I. Therefore, you plus for sanity
  37. Scharnhorst
    29 December 2020 13: 11
    -1
    [quoteWhen we move the strategists' base inside the Sea of ​​Okhotsk, we will lose the opportunity for them to freely enter the ocean.] [/ quote]
    Whatever one may say, but the exit from the Avacha Bay along any one is narrower and smaller than the numerous Kuril straits. Taking control of them all is not a trivial task, even for the Americans. In addition to the factor of surprise (time), we will also have the factor of choosing the place of SSBN passage into the ocean. Although, why go there - except to carry out launches along a short flat trajectory for SLBMs? ... Why then are we breaking through to the Sea of ​​Okhotsk on duty now? ...
    1. Vladimir1155
      Vladimir1155 4 January 2021 20: 33
      0
      Quote: Scharnhorst
      exit from Avacha Bay along any narrower and smaller Kuril straits

      you are deeply mistaken, the only non-mined strait of the Kuril ridge (except for La Perouse and Kunashirsky are no wider than Avacha Bay and it is easier for an adversary to block it than Avacha Bay equipped with coastal weapons ... One of the largest bays on the planet, capable of accepting any ship of the world [1] [2]. It is an internal, closed part of Avacha Bay. The length of the bay is 24 kilometers, the width at the entrance is 3 kilometers, the total area of ​​the water surface is 215 km². [1] The depth is up to 26 meters. The rivers Avacha flow into the bay and Paratunka The shores, in turn, are cut by numerous small bays: Tarja, Tikhaya, Rakovaya, Babiya, Petropavlovskaya, Seroglazka, Mokhovaya, etc. Equipped with lighthouses.

      On the shores of the bay are the cities of Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky and Vilyuchinsk.

      Is the main home base for the Pacific Fleet
    2. Igor Kobernik
      Igor Kobernik 5 January 2021 15: 50
      0
      It is with what "fright" he became smaller than 50 years ago ???
  38. Old26
    Old26 29 December 2020 17: 14
    +5
    Quote: Svetlana
    Place a mine-based Strategic Missile Forces base in the center of Konder

    Something you are tempted to dig mines for rockets or in the permafrost, or in the mountains. Although you won't dig yourself, why not offer

    Quote: SovAr238A
    Quote: Aleksandr1971
    But I substantiated the idea of ​​transferring the SSBN bases to Ladoga and Onega lakes and to Baikal. This is better than the hypothetical base in the Nevelskoy Strait.


    Inland waters are prohibited for the placement of nuclear weapons.

    Not really, comrade. It is prohibited to deploy ballistic missiles with a range of more than 600 km on non-submarine floating craft in such bodies of water.

    Quote: Aleksandr1971
    Now there are only 3 agreements about the joint-stock company: 1) On the prohibition of the proliferation of nuclear weapons; 2) On the prohibition of the placement of nuclear weapons in the komso; 3) START-3, which limits the number of warheads, the number of their carriers and the range of carriers.

    And a bunch of prohibitions from previous agreements, in particular from the SALT-2 agreement. Learn materiel, read not only the texts of contracts, but also numerous applications. Then you would not write that there are only three contracts and nothing more ...

    Quote: Aleksandr1971
    But before this start, SSBNs at the base will simply die along with the base itself. (Except for the case when Russia is the first to issue the order for a nuclear missile attack on the United States).

    Oh really? and after how long will this base die if the "trident" fire from their positional areas in the region of the US west coast? How long will it take to shoot all the ammunition from the boat at the pier? There is no doubt that it will die. But BC - will shoot

    Quote: Aleksandr1971
    On Ladoga, the depth is up to 230 m, on Onega - up to 120 m. This is enough for an SSBN. (The usual depth of combat alert is 100-300 m.) And in the Caspian the depths are up to 1,5 km. More than enough.

    What is the average depth? Not in the deepest points, but on average in the lake ??? In the Caspian, such depths are not everywhere and everywhere. In the Kaspiysk region, I attended a seminar in 2017. I decided to swim. I moved about 70-80 meters from the shore - the water is less than chest-deep. Well, I think, I will go a dozen more meters and swim. Passed another dozen - up to the waist. He spat and returned to the shore, lay down in the water near the shore and began to rest.
    The base from Astrakhan was moved precisely because the arms of the Volga were so shallow there that it was impossible to predict which of them would be suitable for the passage of shallow-draft watercraft in a few hours or days. The North of the Caspian Sea is relatively shallow. And do not forget that besides us, there are also possessions of four other states.

    Quote: Aleksandr1971
    Read about the depths of the Neva rivers

    Read it. At the Ivanovskie rapids, the depth of the Neva is about 4-4,5 meters. Plus the size of the lock chamber on the cascade of hydroelectric power plants on the same Svir ...

    Quote: Aleksandr1971
    Some locations will require dredging. It is not cheap. But this is routine daily work. I myself live in Barnaul and I know that on the Ob river I have to deepen the raid of the Barnaul river port every 3-5 years.

    It is one thing when the port is being deepened, it is quite another thing to carry out dredging works for 300 km along two rivers, and do this not once, but constantly, because on the river it is not known when a stranded, dangerous for a submarine

    Quote: Aleksandr1971
    And now, dear Sergei Valov, tell me that for the sake of saving on dredging works, you can endure the death of Russia in a nuclear war against the United States.

    Whether dredging or not, the results are the same. In a US-Russia war with the use of nuclear weapons, both countries will cease to exist as a whole.

    Quote: Aleksandr1971
    In case of war, NATO ASW aircraft must work hard to find our SSBNs. And in the Atlantic and Pacific Ocean, this does not take much effort, because our SSBNs are already on the US front sight continuously for decades.

    In the sea it means under sights, but in the "puddles" they will be safe. And how long will it take for NATO ASW aircraft to fly from Turkish and Iraqi airfields to the Caspian Sea ...

    Quote: Aleksandr1971
    1. The astronomical cost of building a shipyard on Lake Baikal should not scare you more than the prospect of your country's defeat in a nuclear war can scare you.

    Why are you fixated on Russia's defeat in a nuclear war? Russia, Kau and the United States will cease to exist in the process of a nuclear war. And the main thing for what. How many boats can you place there. Not to mention building them there. Although if you want to achieve complete defeat for Russia not in a nuclear, but in an economic war with the United States, then yes. It is necessary to build shipyards for the production of missile boats in the Caspian Sea, on Ladoga, Onega and Baikal ...

    Quote: Aleksandr1971
    There are no fish in the Caspian now

    Have you been to the Caspian at least once? Pisces say no? That is why Iran came out on top in the world in the production and sale of black caviar. Don't write nonsense ...
  39. Igor Kobernik
    Igor Kobernik 5 January 2021 15: 45
    -1
    the "author" is clearly an underachieved "shkolota" ... He at least looked at the map of the Sea of ​​Okhotsk .... It is shallow ... Modern means can detect submarines at a depth of at least 200 - 300 m ... And places with great depths in the Sea of ​​Okhotsk - one - two .... that's all ... And blocking them with modern means is not so difficult .... And besides "laying rails" to build an infrastructure ??? How much money, resources and time do you need? In short - nonsense ...
    1. Scharnhorst
      5 January 2021 17: 21
      0
      Being in middle age and senile marasmus, you would first study the school atlas on physical geography, the subject of which passed by at a tender age. Strategists of the Northern Fleet are on duty in the Barents Sea with an average depth of 220 meters and a maximum of 513 meters. For the future, remember the characteristics of the Pacific Sea of ​​Okhotsk: the average depth is 821 meters and the maximum is 3521 meters. Understanding "more" - "less" test preschoolers before the first grade. Can you figure it out?
      Modern means can detect submarines at a depth of at least 200 - 300 m

      Modern submarines have maximum immersion depths of 300-500 meters, and the capabilities of "modern means" even exceed these figures! The concept of "block" in your understanding is like a bank card!? ... "How much money, resources and time do you need" - so much will be spent on ensuring the defense of the Motherland, if the latter is not an empty phrase for you.
    2. Svetlana
      Svetlana 5 January 2021 18: 31
      0
      Quote: Igor Kobernik
      At least he would have looked at the map of the Sea of ​​Okhotsk ... It is shallow ...

      There is nothing shallow - on a third of the Sea of ​​Okhotsk, near the Kuril Islands, the Sea of ​​Okhotsk is more than 3 km deep. On Iturup there is a deep-water Dobroe Beginning bay.
      The name was given by the sailors of the ships Juno and Avos. The Bay of Dobroe Beginning is convenient for locating a naval base, since the great depths there come close to the coast. Spetsstroy of Russia is building earthquake-resistant military camps on the islands of Iturup and Kunashir. (see https://eadaily.com/ru/news/2020/12/24/rossiya-vsled-za-krymom-prevratit-v-nepristupnuyu-krepost-kurily) Technicians and military builders already on Iturup could to build on the shores of the Dobroe Beginning Bay and / or on the shore of Kasatka Bay, piers for mooring naval ships, and on the nearby volcano Atsonupuri (height 1205 m) - an AFAR radar for an early warning system of missile attacks. The symbols of Atsonupuri with AFAR and the Russian naval base in Kasatka Bay will probably be adequately assessed by the Japanese and Americans, who otherwise do not understand that there is a law criminalizing calls for the alienation of Russian territory.
      1. Svetlana
        Svetlana 5 January 2021 20: 49
        -1
        Quote: Svetlana
        There is nothing

        need to be fixed to Nothing