Military Review

The number of assembled prototypes of the PAK DA has been announced

134
The number of assembled prototypes of the PAK DA has been announced

The number of assembled prototypes of the PAK DA has been announced. As reported TASS With reference to a source in the military-industrial complex, several prototypes of a promising bomber are being manufactured at once.


According to the interlocutor of the news agency, the prototype PAK DA will be created in several copies to conduct several tests at once. The difference in production time will be only a few months. At the same time, he stressed that the manufacture is already underway according to the design documentation.

Two or three objects are already being launched (into production - approx.) - for "statics", for flight (tests - approx.). They are already made according to CD. Part of the tooling, part of the first parts are made with might and main

- said the source.

Earlier, the first deputy chairman of the board of the Military-Industrial Commission (MIC) of Russia, Andrei Yelchaninov, said that work on a promising Russian bomber was proceeding on schedule and without disruption. At present, individual PAK DA units are being created.

On the eve of the deputy general director - managing director of "UEC-Kuznetsov" Alexei Sobolev announced the creation of a prototype of a new engine for a promising long-range aviation complex. aviation and its entry into the stage of bench tests.

The PAK DA is being developed by the Tupolev Design Bureau. The first flight of the newest aviation complex is to take place in 2025-2026. The start of serial production at the Kazan aircraft plant is scheduled for 2028–2029. At the same time, the machine can be adopted by the Aerospace Forces until 2027.
Photos used:
https://vk.com/pakda
134 comments
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  1. figwam
    figwam 24 December 2020 18: 54
    +1
    If you're lucky, the first serial production will appear in 10 years, the Tu-160 will be the main one for another 20 years.
    1. K-612-O
      K-612-O 24 December 2020 19: 11
      +7
      Serial Tu-160M2 is flying, uzbogoytes
      1. Starover_Z
        Starover_Z 24 December 2020 19: 18
        +25
        Quote: K-612-O
        Serial Tu-160M2 is flying, uzbogoytes

        several prototypes of a promising bomber are being manufactured at once.

        And these are new ones, never seen by any of us! Suddenly belay
        And already several at once ?! Cool though! If true then well done young !
        1. Ross xnumx
          Ross xnumx 24 December 2020 19: 37
          -1
          Quote: Starover_Z
          If it’s true, then well done!

          And it’s not easier: good fellows!
          1. Grits
            Grits 25 December 2020 03: 48
            +6
            Quote: ROSS 42
            And it’s not easier: good fellows!

            Not easier - you can't find such an icon
            1. Ross xnumx
              Ross xnumx 25 December 2020 06: 43
              -3
              Quote: Gritsa
              Not easier - you can't find such an icon

              I put it wrong. Not "not easier", but "not better" ... If you want, you can use the "Character Map" application from the Standard for Windows or choose from here:
              1. Grits
                Grits 28 December 2020 01: 27
                0
                Thanks for the tip
        2. venik
          venik 24 December 2020 19: 39
          +46
          Quote: Starover_Z
          And these are new ones, never seen by any of us! Suddenly belay
          And already several at once ?! Cool though! If it’s true, then well done!

          =======
          Well, thank God! And here, on this very site, not long ago Roman Skomorokhov was very happy that "project PAK-DA, thank God they covered"...
          Thank God that solutions people accept much Smarter Roman Skomorokhov!
          1. alexmach
            alexmach 24 December 2020 21: 04
            +18
            Let's directly say the message above that either several copies are already being made, or only individual nodes are difficult to understand. I would venture to interpret it as "made a plan for the construction of prototypes and their tests" and nothing more.
            1. venik
              venik 24 December 2020 22: 09
              +2
              Quote: alexmach
              I would venture to interpret it as "made a plan for the construction of prototypes and their tests" and nothing more.

              ====
              Well, maybe so .... Not bad already !!! soldier
            2. The comment was deleted.
            3. Vladimir Mashkov
              Vladimir Mashkov 26 December 2020 18: 18
              0
              Quote: alexmach
              Let's directly say the message above that either several copies are already being made, or only individual nodes are difficult to understand. I would venture to interpret it as "made a plan for the construction of prototypes and their tests" and nothing more.

              Everyone sees what he wants and interprets as he pleases. The text clearly states:
              "The number of collected prototypes PAK DA. According to TASS, citing a source in the military-industrial complex, several prototypes are being manufactured at once promising bomber ".
              "At the same time, he stressed that production is already underway according to the design documentation. "
              I believe that TASS is not lying.
              But you, "see" something different and interpret it differently ... It seems that you do not trust TASS.
              1. alexmach
                alexmach 26 December 2020 19: 17
                0
                The number of assembled prototypes of the PAK DA has been announced. According to TASS, citing a source in the military-industrial complex, several prototypes of a promising bomber are being manufactured at once.

                Don't you see any contradictions even in these two sentences? Either "the quantity is named", or "several".
                and further
                Starts up (in production - approx.) already two or three objects - for "statics", for flight (tests - approx.). They are already made according to CD. Part of the tooling, part of the first parts are made with might and main

                And how can this be trusted in principle?
        3. Alex777
          Alex777 24 December 2020 19: 39
          +15
          And these are new ones, never seen by any of us! Suddenly

          It seems that in some places we have learned to work quietly and on schedule.
          Nice to hear! hi
          1. Kara
            Kara 24 December 2020 21: 43
            +15
            Quote: Alex777
            It seems that in some places we have learned to work without noise and on schedule

            They do not promise, but do. The right approach good
          2. venik
            venik 24 December 2020 22: 22
            +2
            Quote: Alex777
            It seems that in some places we have learned to work quietly and on schedule. Nice to hear!

            =======
            Oh, EVERYWHERE would be SO !!! That's for sure: "We would be AHEAD of the whole Planet! (" No fools "!). After all, the hands - where do you need grow, and with brains - like "everything is good".... It remains only to learn how to work" on schedule "! No, not"overfulfill"and not"to shift "left or right" .... And just WORK ON SCHEDULE!!! .... Difficult? Yes! Difficult. But others CAN?
            And WE, that "red" or what? LET'S LEARN - and it will be IM bo-o-great, absolutely GREAT ... "manifesto":

            PS You can throw slippers! hi
            1. Ross xnumx
              Ross xnumx 25 December 2020 06: 53
              +5
              Quote: venik
              Difficult? Yes! Difficult. But others CAN?

              All disruptions to work on schedule come from the management of the enterprise. Take my word for it. This happens especially often when the manager does not represent either the process itself or the technological order. And some do not even realize that working in the open air, in the shop, on the stocks, is fundamentally different from the "process of leadership" from the office (bunker) ...
              But there are also those who believe that they need the salary of leading employees to support their pants ("the artist must be hungry"), but at the same time they do not understand why an incompetent leader should not ride through life "like cheese in butter."
              1. venik
                venik 26 December 2020 13: 50
                +1
                Quote: ROSS 42
                But there are also those who believe that they need the salary of leading employees to support their pants ("the artist must be hungry"), but at the same time they do not understand why an incompetent leader should not ride through life "like cheese in butter."

                ========
                good Neither add nor subtract!
                But in fact, everything is a little more complicated .... In my life I hate "leading" and have always tried to avoid it! But alas! A couple of times I had to .... Damn! Completely ruined relations with friends and colleagues! The situation "that was still" .... The deadlines are running out, and the colleagues are "rolling around" .... WHAT TO DO? I had to not only "yell" obscenities, but also to take "organizational conclusions"! As soon as the project was handed over (it was done on time!) - I immediately submitted an application "on my own ...." It was here that the relationship was restored. The guys gathered: "Well, we are of course bastards, but why so immediately?" .....
        4. Vladimir_2U
          Vladimir_2U 25 December 2020 03: 42
          0
          Slides, slides !!!
        5. Subtext
          Subtext 25 December 2020 12: 50
          +1
          And these are already new

          We have no new ones - we have everything - the newest !!!
          Well, the number is named - a few. The author is not from the tribe, where after 1 and 2, then there is "a lot"?
      2. figwam
        figwam 24 December 2020 19: 19
        +9
        Quote: K-612-O
        Tu-160M2 is flying, uzbogytes

        I am writing about this, he will serve him for a long time.
        1. K-612-O
          K-612-O 24 December 2020 19: 56
          +13
          So PAK YES subsonic, he has to change the Bears. And the Swan will serve for a long time
          1. figwam
            figwam 24 December 2020 20: 43
            0
            Quote: K-612-O
            So PAK YES subsonic, he has to change the Bears.

            Over time, PAK DA will replace all strategists, there is no longer any point in developing a supersonic carrier.
            1. poquello
              poquello 24 December 2020 22: 04
              +3
              Quote: figvam
              Quote: K-612-O
              So PAK YES subsonic, he has to change the Bears.

              Over time, PAK DA will replace all strategists it makes no sense to develop a supersonic carrier.

              why else? delivery speed is not needed?
            2. Camel
              Camel 24 December 2020 22: 42
              +6
              I am embarrassed to ask - why is not a supersonic carrier needed? It seems that they want to launch hypers from "Swans" too ...
              1. Alex777
                Alex777 24 December 2020 23: 53
                +3
                With the scale of our country, we both need the MiG-31 (and no one else), and the Tu-160 (and no one else). hi
          2. Grits
            Grits 25 December 2020 03: 52
            +2
            Quote: K-612-O
            So PAK YES subsonic, he has to change the Bears. And the Swan will serve for a long time

            They plan to immediately replace the Tu-22 and Tu-160 and Tu-95 at the same time. To be honest, I don't really understand how they want to combine everything. The universality always scares me with its unpredictability and inefficiency
      3. Zhan
        Zhan 24 December 2020 19: 23
        +13
        Quote: K-612-O
        Serial Tu-160M2 is flying, uzbogoytes

        hi Well, that means another 40 years will serve. Nice car, with excellent performance characteristics and capabilities.
        But with our friend "Figvam", I agree willingly, it is better to go over .... with the timing, you never know there are unpleasant situevin? And frankly, I really want to see it embodied in metal and touch it with pens .. hi
        1. Ross xnumx
          Ross xnumx 24 December 2020 19: 41
          +5
          Quote: Zhan
          Well, that means another 40 years will serve. Nice car, with excellent performance characteristics and capabilities.

          I agree! Specific upgrade!
          1. bk0010
            bk0010 24 December 2020 20: 57
            +1
            Quote: ROSS 42
            I agree! Specific upgrade!
            If production was restored from scratch, then it was necessary to provide a low-altitude breakthrough and the fuselage should be altered: to reduce weight, EPR, to increase resistance to overloads (for a low-altitude breakthrough) and strength (to increase supersonic speed, now it is limited not by engines, but by the fuselage, it begins to warp ).
      4. Dodikson
        Dodikson 24 December 2020 22: 41
        -2
        PAK FA also took flight in 2010.
        10 years have passed, what has changed?
        1. El Chuvachino
          El Chuvachino 24 December 2020 23: 51
          +2
          No need to juggle, in the 2010 PAK FA started pass flight. Then it was decided to make constructive changes to the airframe, which took several more years to test and still this is not the longest development period for the fighter.
          Quote: Dodikson
          what changed ?

          What has changed is that the Su-57 entered serial production.
          1. Avior
            Avior 25 December 2020 00: 19
            -3
            It seems that not a single serial has been transferred to the troops yet?
            1. El Chuvachino
              El Chuvachino 25 December 2020 10: 41
              0
              When in 2016 they announced the construction of the bridge, planning to finish it at the end of 2019, the Ukrainians tried to troll with might and main in the same 2016, asking, they say, what was the bridge already built?

              While you are here doing your pharisaism, the first serial Su-57 is on its way to receive it from KnAAZ.
              1. Avior
                Avior 25 December 2020 12: 50
                +1
                Last year, the same as you drowned here in front of the locomotive and poked: ((((
                Why not wait until the test finally passes? Or are you a rake master?
                1. El Chuvachino
                  El Chuvachino 25 December 2020 13: 18
                  -1
                  Quote: Avior
                  and scribbled: ((((

                  If we talk about the signs, then those who painted the plane before passing the tests did it.
                  Quote: Avior
                  Why not wait until the test finally passes?

                  So they are passed! The plane was accepted.
                  1. Avior
                    Avior 25 December 2020 14: 56
                    0
                    ... is on its way to the reception

                    Those who loudly shout accepted, and he is still on trial
                    A year ago it was exactly like that :(
                    1. El Chuvachino
                      El Chuvachino 25 December 2020 14: 58
                      -2
                      Personally, I don’t remember that, but since you saw it, of course it’s not good.
          2. Dodikson
            Dodikson 25 December 2020 11: 15
            -2
            well, and PAK YES has NOT even started flying, and why are you here drowning for the idea that in 5 years the PAK YES will go into series?
            otherwise I remember very well how in 2010 both the PAK FA and Armatu were promised to us in the series since 2012 every year. and so every year, the first years, I still believed, and after 6 or 7 consecutive promises that next year we will give a zoop and answer to our mouth that it will definitely go into the series, and again I did not go, I already scored and I start to believe that I will not have neither the Su-57 nor the Armata.
            will do a decl for show. and in the troops there will be Su-30,34,35 and T-72B3
            because in one parable the boy shouted "wolves" too often and they stopped believing the boy.
            so here too, our too often promised that next year will be exactly in series, that now I will not believe them even if they answer the question "what time is it?" ...
            and then I see that again Russian starball players promise such that after that no one will believe that even the new Tu-160 will take off, and not that the PAK YES when it goes into production. and all because it is UNREALABLE for 5 years to even put a non-flying strategic bomber into production, even the LFI during this time will not pass the GI. for it should be AT LEAST 10 years, although as practice shows, it is generally necessary that all 15 years after the first flight.
            and the one who promises us in 5 years to put into production a strategic aircraft that has not yet flown is just an ordinary liar because of which I already less and less believe in our defense industry.
            1. El Chuvachino
              El Chuvachino 25 December 2020 11: 27
              -2
              Quote: Dodikson
              and why are you here drowning for the idea that in 5 years the PAK YES will go into series?

              Where did I say that?
              Quote: Dodikson
              otherwise I remember very well how in 2010 we and PAK FA and Armata in the series since 2012

              Armata was shown only in 2015, you are lying again. PAK FA at best from the same 2015 promised why the delays happened, I already wrote above.
              Quote: Dodikson
              what will definitely go into the series, and again did not go

              Hello, he already in serial production.

              Stop your stream of consciousness, carry on some kind of nonsense.
              1. Dodikson
                Dodikson 25 December 2020 11: 53
                -1
                young man, if you are not on friendly terms with facts and materiel, then why are you getting into an argument?
                Where did I say that?


                What topic are you discussing here?
                For example, I am discussing an article about PAK YES in which it is written
                The PAK DA is being developed by the Tupolev Design Bureau. The first flight of the newest aviation complex is to take place in 2025-2026. The start of serial production at the Kazan aircraft plant is scheduled for 2028-2029

                What are you discussing here?
                By the way, can you calculate the difference between the numbers between the first flight and the "start of mass production"?
                tell me, in 3-4 years they will go through all the GIs and go into the series and I will remind the Tupolev Design Bureau, which for 30 years has not really created a damn thing and has not saved its personnel in the 90s, unlike the Sukhoi Design Bureau, which PAK FA for some reason 10 years from the first flight to the series brought.

                Armata was shown only in 2015, you are lying again. PAK FA at best from the same 2015 promised why the delays happened, I already wrote above.


                what you were shown at the parade in 2015 does not mean that those who know the defense industry not from parades were told not about other terms,
                initially in 2010, there was the first flight of both the PAK FA and the start of the Armata project after the abandonment of volume 195, and they promised that in 2012 the PAK FA will be tested and will prepare for serial production, which may be postponed to 2013. also in the same year they promised that by 2012 the armata will be created and by 2013 it will go into series.
                And they were carrying this nonsense and the deputy head of the UVZ, the commander-in-chief of the Air Force (I don't remember Zelin or Bondarev anymore, or both along the way, I have to look, I haven't argued about this for two years already)
                and then EVERY year they transferred the series to the next year.
                if I even find a demotivator where there were screenshots of news about how in 2013 the T-50 will go into production, the next screen is about next year, and so on.
                I even have it on my computer, I have to look. now in the internet it is not something. removed for some reason.

                Hello, he's already in serial production.


                it's just BEGINNING to be produced.
                10 YEARS after the first flight.
                remind me what they wrote about PAK YES in this article?
                1. El Chuvachino
                  El Chuvachino 25 December 2020 13: 27
                  -2
                  Quote: Dodikson
                  young man, if you are not on friendly terms with facts and materiel, then why are you getting into an argument?


                  In my opinion, I wrote in an accessible language so that you do not distort the facts in your disputes, that's all. We have to correct you so as not to burrow.

                  Quote: Dodikson
                  For example, I am discussing an article about PAK YES in which it is written

                  You are discussing someone's OPINION, which you have already attributed to me, accusing me of “drowning” for a period of 5 years.

                  Quote: Dodikson
                  which the PAK FA for some reason brought 10 years from the first flight to the series.

                  I have already written to you why this is so, and why this is a normal period.

                  Quote: Dodikson
                  what you were shown at the parade in 2015 does not mean that those who know the defense industry not from parades were told not about other terms

                  Did someone promise you specific delivery dates before the parades?

                  Quote: Dodikson
                  it's just BEGINNING to be produced.
                  10 YEARS after the first flight.

                  In 9.

                  Stop shaking the air, I congratulate you, today the first Su-57 was put into service.


    2. XXXIII
      XXXIII 24 December 2020 22: 06
      -4
      Two or three objects are already being launched (into production - approx.) - for "statics", for flight (tests - approx.). They are already made according to CD. Part of the tooling, part of the first parts are made in full

      Is he what?))

      07.11.2013/XNUMX/XNUMX There was already a frame, the filling is probably still being chosen, and this is a troublesome business.
      1. Aqr009
        Aqr009 24 December 2020 23: 19
        +5
        Is he what?))

        Why, just one engine? Looks like some kind of Hunter prototype.
      2. El Chuvachino
        El Chuvachino 24 December 2020 23: 57
        +4
        And the color is removed to create an atmosphere of mystery or what? laughing

        I will even say more, this is a small purge model, which is carefully transported on a cart) one of))
        1. XXXIII
          XXXIII 25 December 2020 11: 29
          +2
          Quote: El Chuvachino
          And the color is removed to create an atmosphere of mystery or what?

          What I found on the internet.))
          Quote: Aqr009
          Why, just one engine? Looks like some kind of Hunter prototype.

          Yes, he is. + It turns out that the Hunter was already created long before the first flight.))
    3. Grigory_45
      Grigory_45 24 December 2020 23: 49
      -1
      Quote: figvam
      If you're lucky, the first serial production will appear in 10 years, the Tu-160 will be the main one for another 20 years.

      Well, it's not in vain that the production of "Swans" is being restored. Several years ago, it became extremely clear that PAK DA was late (according to plans, it was supposed to fly three years ago, in 2017). Now the first flight is in 2025.
      1. Bad_gr
        Bad_gr 25 December 2020 00: 13
        +3
        Quote: Gregory_45
        Well, it's not for nothing that they restore the production of "Swans"

        And they complement each other. Look, in the not at all poor USA, and B-52, and B-1 and B-2 all somehow get along together, no one ousted anyone.
        1. Grigory_45
          Grigory_45 25 December 2020 00: 26
          0
          Quote: Bad_gr
          in the not at all poor USA, and B-52, and B-1 and B-2 all somehow get along together, no one ousted anyone

          yeah, only the B-52 was supposed to replace the B-1 - it didn't work. The Lancer was even removed from the strategic nuclear forces. Well, with the V-2, everything is perfectly clear, an airplane with such a price tag would not a priori become widespread. That is why in the States and make "Raider", because a veteran B-52 should take the rap for everyone. B-21 should replace them, and the stewardess will finally be buried.

          Did the three MBTs (T-64, T-72 and T-80) also complement each other? Or was it a mistake? The presence in the Armed Forces of constructively different equipment of the same kind (be it tanks, ships, aircraft) designed to solve the same problems is a puncture.
  2. Flashpoint
    Flashpoint 24 December 2020 18: 54
    +3
    Interesting, we are waiting for further news.
  3. nPuBaTuP
    nPuBaTuP 24 December 2020 18: 56
    -2
    So how much?
    This is a word, not a number ...
    1. K-612-O
      K-612-O 24 December 2020 19: 10
      +7
      Manufactured according to OST from 3 to 5 RO, after a test cycle, CD is processed, 2 more are manufactured and undergo flight tests, then a series
      1. Grigory_45
        Grigory_45 24 December 2020 23: 56
        0
        Quote: K-612-O
        Manufactured according to OST from 3 to 5 RO, after a test cycle, CD is processed, 2 more are manufactured and undergo flight tests

        damn it, the developers and testers of the T-50 did not act according to the charter! We made 10 flight and 3 prototypes for ground tests. How can you ...
  4. rocket757
    rocket757 24 December 2020 18: 58
    +7
    The number of assembled prototypes of the PAK DA has been announced

    This will be significant news, a topic when it IS!
    Boom wait.
  5. Vasiliev S.
    Vasiliev S. 24 December 2020 19: 03
    -22%
    No matter how it turned out like with a hangar
    1. Camel
      Camel 24 December 2020 22: 53
      +1
      She still flew. The inevitable set of development activities has not gone anywhere. We tried it with the Bulava, but I haven't flown for 15 years anyway.
  6. antivirus
    antivirus 24 December 2020 19: 07
    -22%
    and not a single one is being built! ...
    if only for the "statistic"!
    where is the hand-in the country looking? ... in the wrong direction ...
    and where to look? - minus servers know.
    GIVE AN AIR CARRIER IN THE 760 M AIRCRAFT TO WORK WITH HIM PAK YES.
    1. tralflot1832
      tralflot1832 24 December 2020 19: 15
      +13
      Take me to the dry dock brigade to dig to build your aircraft carrier project! It will be faster! wassat drinks good
      1. Grits
        Grits 25 December 2020 04: 01
        +2
        Quote: tralflot1832
        Take me to the dry dock brigade to dig to build your aircraft carrier project! It will be faster!

        Duc, I think there are a lot of people willing to dig. But the drivers cannot show with their hands where to dig, how to dig and where to dig. And also why dig, what to dig and what to pay for "digging".
        1. tralflot1832
          tralflot1832 25 December 2020 07: 39
          +1
          As for paying, finding money to cut it, it's their talent! But where to dig is definitely a question, Welding the body in the north is still a pleasure. So you also need an eling of the appropriate size.
    2. Xnumx vis
      Xnumx vis 24 December 2020 19: 35
      +4
      Quote: antivirus
      GIVE AN AIR CARRIER IN THE 760 M AIRCRAFT TO WORK WITH HIM PAK YES.

      Give in two and a quarter years! We will catch up and overtake! We will fulfill and overfulfill the plan ahead of schedule! In honor of St. Patrick's Day!
      1. antivirus
        antivirus 24 December 2020 21: 05
        +5
        I'd rather be in honor of St. Jorgen ........................................... ...............................
    3. BDRM 667
      BDRM 667 24 December 2020 19: 52
      +18
      Quote: antivirus
      GIVE AN AIR CARRIER IN THE 760 M AIRCRAFT TO WORK WITH HIM PAK YES.

      Have already given.
      The aircraft carrier is called "Crimea". Unsinkable, by the way ...
      1. The eye of the crying
        The eye of the crying 24 December 2020 21: 41
        +2
        Quote: BDRM 667
        The aircraft carrier is named "Crimea"


        It will not pass through the Bosphorus.
        1. Cheshire
          Cheshire 24 December 2020 22: 14
          +9
          Quote: BDRM 667
          The aircraft carrier is named "Crimea"


          It will not pass through the Bosphorus.

          We, if necessary, will stretch the Bosphorus over the Crimea) hi
          1. The eye of the crying
            The eye of the crying 24 December 2020 22: 18
            0
            And tilt the earth's axis, yeah
            1. Cheshire
              Cheshire 24 December 2020 22: 19
              +5
              Have agreed laughing
            2. BDRM 667
              BDRM 667 26 December 2020 06: 55
              -1
              Quote: Eye of the Crying
              And tilt the earth's axis, yeah

              It will be necessary, and we will bend it. Do not doubt yes
              1. The eye of the crying
                The eye of the crying 26 December 2020 12: 10
                +1
                And if you do not bend it, then it was not necessary. No doubt.
        2. Grits
          Grits 25 December 2020 04: 03
          +3
          Quote: Eye of the Crying
          It will not pass through the Bosphorus.

          This is a purely Black Sea aircraft carrier. It remains to remake for the Pacific aircraft carrier Sakhalin and for the North Sea Novaya Zemlya. Then we will be equipped with aircraft carriers.
          1. The eye of the crying
            The eye of the crying 25 December 2020 04: 06
            +1
            Quote: Gritsa
            Remains to remake under the Pacific aircraft carrier Sakhalin


            Sakhalin will be a "purely Okhotsk" aircraft carrier, not a Pacific one.
          2. antivirus
            antivirus 25 December 2020 09: 42
            0
            so it was revealed - the subconscious is different -
            -One for the most distant air-missile wing (AB) around the world. "CAPTURE A PIECE" pirates, British thinking.
            - others for the same air-missile wing on their territory, defencists, without expansion. "DEVELOP YOUR TERRITORIES." "where the steppe ends - the interest in seizures ends" (defense)
      2. Camel
        Camel 24 December 2020 22: 55
        +3
        You don't even need to dig anything! Everything has been dug out before us! hi
    4. Arthur 85
      Arthur 85 24 December 2020 19: 54
      +6
      Nothing behold! You even surpassed me. I proposed to convert a tanker with a 600 kt displacement and a 500 m deck into an avik, in order to get away from catapults, finishers, and special deck aircraft, and take so much fuel and rockets so that all Berks collectively make seppuku (by the way, not a single reasoned counter-argument why it cannot be done, did not receive). But 760 m is definitely cooler! Furiously plus.
      1. bk0010
        bk0010 24 December 2020 21: 07
        +6
        to get away from catapults, finishers, and special deck aircraft
        You won't get away from special deck planes, just because of the sea water. Land planes will quickly rot. Even in the hangar (there will be salt in the air).
        The tanker does not correspond to spec. requirements of the Navy for a warship (survivability, operational features, etc.). Once our Navy was offered to make a VTOL aircraft carrier out of a civilian bulk carrier. The Navy said, "do, but ensure that our normal requirements are met." As a result, the displacement of the project increased to the displacement of our aircraft-carrying cruisers, and the project was closed.
        1. Arthur 85
          Arthur 85 25 December 2020 08: 24
          0
          Yes, I understand. But. The tanker has a double side. Are all modern warships double-sided? Something I doubt. There are large tanks in the body. Some of them can be left blank. This will already be a "triple side" providing unsinkability. Then, with such a VI, it is, in principle, difficult to sink it, especially if the inter-board space is filled with some non-combustible polyurethane foam. As for the aircraft, I meant that when the wing is knocked out, an ordinary "land" regiment of aircraft can be transplanted onto this mastodon, and have a couple of runways, so that when one aircraft is smashed on the deck, AB does not lose combat effectiveness. Well, planes without folding wings are probably simpler, lighter and cheaper than with them ... But yes, it will be dangerous to serve on this ship. The enemy will try to drown him. But there's nothing you can do about it.
          1. Arthur 85
            Arthur 85 25 December 2020 08: 38
            +1
            And by the way, about the operating conditions. I do not want to say anything bad about warships, but civilian ships do not need to be repaired for decades, but are intensively exploited, earning money for their owners. I don't know what the trick is, perhaps there is a re-powered power plant on warships, which constantly breaks down because of this. But it may be better to have a simple power plant, which may be heavier and slower, but thanks to which the ship is ALWAYS at sea, and always conducts combat training of pilots and sailors, and does not stand for years in the dock. And there may be a slower and more clumsy ship, but which, on alert 24/7, will defeat the beautiful atomic Nimitz.
          2. Grigory_45
            Grigory_45 25 December 2020 10: 50
            +1
            Quote: Arthur 85
            The tanker has a double side. Do all modern warships have double sides? Something I doubt.

            AB has a reservation. Perhaps these are the only modern ships that have it (kevlar panels on destroyer deckhouses do not count). Well, the constructive protection of a battleship (all the more so large and valuable as AB) is in no way comparable to a tanker or other civilian vessel. Do they have anti-trap protection? No and never was. An armored deck, maybe? also no. Layered and duplicated placement of units? Yes, not a trace.

            Quote: Arthur 85
            As for the airplanes, I meant that when the wing is knocked out, an ordinary "land" regiment of airplanes can be transferred to this mastodon.

            oga))) And how long will the deck be? One and a half kilometers? The trick is that the useful length (the one that the aircraft will use on takeoff) is much less than the total length of the deck. For example, on Kuznetsovo, from a far position, the takeoff run is 180 meters with a total deck length of about 300 meters. If the airplane needs 500 meters, then feel free to add another hundred, or even two. And if a kilometer of run? Not an empty plane takes off, right?

            Quote: Arthur 85
            Well, planes without folding wings are probably easier

            yeah, especially on the ship. In the same place then - at least eat your booty. And what luxurious lifts will be needed for "non-folding" aircraft)) Look at the difference - the wingspan of the Su-33 is about 15 meters, with a folded wing - half that. Those. you can theoretically accommodate twice as many planes in the same area.

            Quote: Arthur 85
            But 760 m is definitely cooler!

            exactly, and the displacement will be about 600 thousand tons. How much will it cost, despite the fact that it does not have the survivability of a warship?
            1. Dodikson
              Dodikson 25 December 2020 11: 25
              +1
              and what the fuck is AB's anti-torpedo protection?
              tanks with fuel around AB? or the bulkheads that all ships have?
              or the fact that there are anti-torpedoes on AB? so you can put them on a wooden boat.
              yes AB target is tenacious. but modern tankers still need a paragraph on how to try to sink.
              1. Grigory_45
                Grigory_45 25 December 2020 11: 54
                +1
                Quote: Dodikson
                what the fuck is AB's anti-torpedo protection?

                On the example of "Enterprise": 5 longitudinal bulkheads on each side, the total depth of protection reaches 6 meters. The PTZ compartments are partly filled with seawater and partly with aviation fuel. Double bottom along the entire length of the ship. Reinforced keel. According to overseas "tovarischi", the PTZ is designed to withstand the explosion of a 300-kg torpedo warhead. I certainly can't believe it, but it's still better than nothing.
                This is about constructive protection. I do not consider towed traps, anti-torpedoes, electromagnetic protection systems.
                1. Dodikson
                  Dodikson 25 December 2020 12: 06
                  0
                  I know how it works with the Enterprise and how it works with Nimitz, a little in the course of how it works with Ford.
                  I have a question - what is so special about that which is not on other large ships?
                  what, there are no bulkheads on the tanker? Why can't the PTZ compartments be filled with water or jet fuel?
                  By the way, on AB the fuel is mostly outside AB, and forms an anti-torpedo screen. Believe it or not, this can be done even with Abramovich's pleasure yacht.
                  a tanker already has a double bottom, and even a quadruple bottom can be made there.
                  the keel is also reinforced there. you can even look at the provocations against tankers in the Persian Gulf, where explosions only scratch the hull. Moreover, you can read about the Iran-Iraq war. And about how the Iraqi Tu-16 (Chinese clones) fired at the anti-ship missile tankers with a large warhead and lo and behold, the tankers did not sink and did not burn down.
                  1. Grigory_45
                    Grigory_45 25 December 2020 12: 33
                    0
                    Quote: Dodikson
                    I have a question - what is so special about that which is not on other large ships?
                    what, there are no bulkheads on the tanker? Why can't the PTZ compartments be filled with water or jet fuel?

                    military and civilian shipbuilding standards differ. Even if you provide a slightest combat stability, you will need to shake up almost all the "offal" of the hull. Build a hangar, storage facilities for fuel, ammunition, warehouses, workshops, elevators, fire extinguishing and fuel supply lines, and a lot more. The tanker's crew is a couple of dozen people at most. The AB crew is several hundred. They need to be placed. Feed, etc. In general, the restructuring is global, and not only to lay the deck and put an "island" instead of the standard superstructure.
                    But these are flowers.
                    A lot of different and very expensive electronics will have to be installed on the ship. Which in itself is more expensive than a metal box. From radars, communications and navigation systems to aircraft drive and landing equipment. Plus, all the same, finalize land vehicles, so that at least they could find the resulting "aircraft carrier" and sit on it.

                    However, it is quite possible to build such an ersatz aircraft carrier. History knows examples of the construction and combat use of aircraft carriers from tankers and bulk carriers. You just need to understand that it will still be "ersatz"

                    You can go further. Not build frigates, but re-equip trawlers. Instead of corvettes, tugs should be converted.
                    Instead of strategic bombers, use airliners (since they are in no way inferior in range). A vigorous bomb can be thrown out of the cargo hatch.
                    1. Dodikson
                      Dodikson 25 December 2020 14: 12
                      0
                      Yes, a tanker is really an ersatz AB, but it is better to have an ersatz AB than to have nothing at all.
                      in fact, taking a tanker and driving it a little will cost several times cheaper than a full-fledged AB, and it will perform all the basic functions of AB.
                      By the way, the main topic for AB in terms of protection from the sea is the escort, and he equally defends that AB, the tanker or the ship, the arsenal.
                      the same Saxons in the Falklands and container ships used for vertical and turntables.
                    2. Arthur 85
                      Arthur 85 25 December 2020 15: 08
                      0
                      Yes, of course, it's better to have a full-fledged AB, who can argue! But we do not have it, and there will not be another 20 years, the Olympiad is more important. And to order in Korea a couple of buildings of 500-550 meters, and not say why, what is stopping us? And then let the world community impose sanctions, go for diarrhea, hang on a sequoia in Yellowstone Park. We will calmly retrofit our two ersatz aviks.
            2. Arthur 85
              Arthur 85 25 December 2020 11: 48
              0
              As far as I remember, an existing tanker of 600 thousand tons was sold for 40 million, although not a new one. That's exactly what I meant. No aircraft lifts are needed there. The entire wing is on deck. With this width, you can afford it. Yes, with a takeoff, I got excited, but still, some aircraft have a takeoff run of 400-450 meters. If we attach 25 "balcony" meters to the bow and stern with a deck length of 480 m, we will succeed. Or it is necessary to develop an aircraft with a short take-off run. Americans, behold, went to great lengths on the F-35 B and S.
              It is also not so difficult to book a GDP with such a displacement. Just sheets of steel. Half of the "tanks" will have to be left empty. For balance, concrete will have to be poured into the inter-board space below the VI, not polyurethane foam. It may be necessary to weld several rails along the length of the ship for rigidity. When the concrete hardens, pick it out. This is the question of anti-torpedo protection. I think all these upgrades will cost a maximum of 100 million, plus 40 million for the cost of the tanker itself.
              1. Dodikson
                Dodikson 25 December 2020 14: 15
                +1
                MiG-35 can take off from 190 meters of run
                Su-57 from 350 meters.
                and some kind of fighter, I don't remember which one. from 280 meters.
                1. Grigory_45
                  Grigory_45 25 December 2020 15: 39
                  0
                  Quote: Dodikson
                  MiG-35 can take off from 190 meters of run

                  MiG-35:
                  Takeoff run, m: - without afterburner - 600-700; - with afterburner - 260.
                  The length of the run with a braking parachute - 600 m
                  Not specified with what takeoff weight. I guess the normal is taken into account. Empty - will come off earlier, max. takeoff - a greater takeoff run will be required.
                  Whatever one may say, even a light and with good aerodynamics land plane needs half a kilometer. If you plant bombers, even more.
                  So the springboard and finisher are our everything, even on an "aircraft carrier from a tanker"
                  1. Arthur 85
                    Arthur 85 25 December 2020 16: 57
                    +1
                    Okay, it’s clear with takeoff: a springboard on the tanker will not hurt, and it’s not a problem to weld it out of scrap metal collected by the youngsters. With the finisher, of course, it's worse - you need a brake hook on the plane, and a high qualification of the pilot, so that he sits exactly where the cables of the finisher are ... Okay. let the aircraft have reinforced landing gear with "sagging" on the left of the left landing gear and on the right of the right. (With the option of screwing such landing gear to a production aircraft). The plane sits on a "chute" in the armored deck, which is wide at first, and then gradually narrows. The nodules on the chassis enter the grooves on the left and right of this groove, which prevent it from jumping up. Then the chute narrows a little more, providing smooth adhesion braking (if you think this is nonsense - remember the trains. They do not go off the rails, even at a speed of 100 km / h, despite the fact that the "limiter" holding them a couple of centimeters). When the speed of the aircraft is canceled (and the pilot's retina is saved from detachment), the chute expands again, and the aircraft is free to taxi, and turns to the parking lot under its own power. The "loaded" sections of the gutter will need to be changed periodically.
                  2. Arthur 85
                    Arthur 85 25 December 2020 17: 12
                    +1
                    Another option is a braking "island" on the deck between the landing gear in the form of a very elongated ellipse - everything is the same as in the groove, only in a mirror image: nodules on the chassis from the inside - and the plane sits down so that the "island" falls between the chassis. After braking, the ellipse ends and the plane starts taxiing. If he suddenly gets stuck in the middle, because of a talented pilot, provide for the hinged top of the "brake vise" to swing upwards on the hinges.
    5. Intruder
      Intruder 25 December 2020 00: 30
      +2
      IN A 760 M AIRDECK FOR OPERATING WITH IT PACK YES.
      and that epic, so "smoked" all over the Mediterranean !? Well, this is for everyone to shake Varogs in Southern Europe ... :)))
      1. antivirus
        antivirus 25 December 2020 09: 47
        +2
        smoke screen instead of Vesuvius - GA flights stop, children do not go to schools, beaches are closed. Emergency before leaving the "smoking room" area
        1. Intruder
          Intruder 25 December 2020 13: 22
          0
          +1 !!! great technical solution - a smoke screen on the floor of Europe :)
  7. Deniska999
    Deniska999 24 December 2020 19: 07
    -7
    If the crisis is protracted, then the money may not be enough for mass production.
    1. Svetlana
      Svetlana 24 December 2020 19: 14
      +11
      Russia today is a capitalist country, and periodic crises for capitalism are a natural thing. Don't be alarmed. And it's not, by and large, about money, it's about the industry's ability to produce complex systems.
    2. Yuriy71
      Yuriy71 24 December 2020 21: 11
      -5
      And so it will be! Remember, before the First World War, the Russian Empire had a chronic shortage of shells, cartridges, just gunpowder! Not enough, besides this - just, even footcloths !!!
      1. ultra
        ultra 24 December 2020 21: 14
        0
        There were problems with gunpowder in the Second World War.
  8. Svetlana
    Svetlana 24 December 2020 19: 11
    +3
    no wonder the messages about the readiness of the engines for them slipped through.
  9. tralflot1832
    tralflot1832 24 December 2020 19: 17
    -1
    And a cartoon for the New Year will show, it is very interesting what they are fighting!
  10. Tusv
    Tusv 24 December 2020 19: 27
    +4
    Eh. I like how the Yankees call their B-2 spirits. In honor of their states. Spirit of Alabama, Spirit of Wyoming, etc. We must somehow support this idea. Oryol trotter, Novgorod, Krasnoyarsky ... And the first should be the Aleutian trotter, so that they know who the barrel is being rolled on - Ice Crimea Nash
    1. Bad_gr
      Bad_gr 24 December 2020 19: 36
      +2
      Quote: Tusv
      We must somehow support this idea. Oryol trotter, Novgorod, Krasnoyarsk ...

      Przewalski's horse.
      1. Tusv
        Tusv 24 December 2020 19: 39
        +7
        Quote: Bad_gr
        Przewalski's horse.

        stop Beast, why torture a monster repeat
      2. Grits
        Grits 25 December 2020 07: 05
        +1
        Quote: Bad_gr
        Przewalski's horse.

        Anadyr deer
    2. Arthur 85
      Arthur 85 24 December 2020 19: 59
      -2
      Better: Dembel of Alabama, Dembel of Wyoming ... laughing
      1. Tusv
        Tusv 24 December 2020 20: 06
        -1
        Quote: Arthur 85
        Better: Dembel of Alabama, Dembel of Wyoming

        Yeah. So they will send a pepelats worth under three lard, taking into account upgrades, for demobilization. This can only be done by the Russian Aerospace Forces
      2. Tusv
        Tusv 24 December 2020 20: 24
        0
        Quote: Arthur 85
        Better: Dembel of Alabama, Dembel of Wyoming ...

        Yes. By the way. Who comes to "visit" the Paramilitary Organization - the same. Yes. Dembel is inevitable hi
    3. poquello
      poquello 24 December 2020 22: 10
      -1
      Quote: Tusv
      Eh. I like how the Yankees call their B-2 spirits. In honor of their states. Spirit of Alabama, Spirit of Wyoming, etc. We need to somehow support this idea.

      scoop of alabama
      1. Tusv
        Tusv 24 December 2020 22: 15
        0
        Well, damn it and the answers. No humor.
    4. The comment was deleted.
    5. CastroRuiz
      CastroRuiz 24 December 2020 22: 17
      +2
      Tambovskiy volk. :)
    6. Intruder
      Intruder 25 December 2020 00: 32
      -1
      Ice Crimea Nash
      maybe just modestly: "Tsar Vladimir ...":))) ???
      1. martin-159
        martin-159 26 December 2020 15: 17
        0
        "Tsar Vladimir 0"
  11. Alien From
    Alien From 24 December 2020 19: 31
    +3
    I really, really need this car!
  12. GoraN
    GoraN 24 December 2020 19: 32
    +2
    In the photo, the handsome man is interested in how the first packs will look like
  13. The popuas
    The popuas 24 December 2020 19: 46
    +4
    The title of the article ... The number of collected prototypes of PAK YES is named !!! .... in the article ... two or three ... Ay kindergarten ... wassat and above with serious cabbage soup yes yes ... laughing
    1. Yuriy71
      Yuriy71 24 December 2020 21: 08
      +1
      Journalists are like that now! ))). In the days of the Red Star, such an article would have come down to "Hurray"! )))
  14. Dkuznecov
    Dkuznecov 24 December 2020 20: 28
    +4
    "the first flight is scheduled for 2015"
    lenta.ru/news/2009/08/19/bomber
    Something went wrong ?
    1. Yuriy71
      Yuriy71 24 December 2020 21: 06
      -3
      It didn’t go like that Absolutely everything! Armats, Storms, Leaders, Kurgan residents in this row, etc., etc. There is a lot of screaming - zero exhaust !!!
  15. silberwolf88
    silberwolf88 24 December 2020 20: 38
    +3
    while this is all a declaration of intent ... BUT it can not but rejoice that work on the creation of a new complex is underway ...
  16. Undecim
    Undecim 24 December 2020 20: 39
    +5
    At the same time, he stressed that the manufacture is already underway according to the design documentation.
    Obviously the specialist "emphasized". What other documentation can be used for accounting?
  17. Yuriy71
    Yuriy71 24 December 2020 21: 03
    0
    As always, the Russian department cannot decide on priorities! And then what about the modernization of the TU-160 and the release of new versions !? "Bolivar can take two"?
  18. Gennady Fomkin
    Gennady Fomkin 24 December 2020 21: 45
    +1
    That is, you can strike without leaving the airspace of the Russian Federation? what belay
    1. Tusv
      Tusv 24 December 2020 22: 04
      +3
      Quote: Gennady Fomkin
      That is, you can strike without leaving the airspace of the Russian Federation?

      Here you have to understand. Without leaving the airfield zone from the Xa-102 it is already possible to cause unacceptable damage, and Pak-Yes is a projection of force. Pride and to tremble clearly
    2. Grits
      Grits 25 December 2020 07: 09
      0
      Quote: Gennady Fomkin
      That is, you can strike without leaving the airspace of the Russian Federation?

      For example, in the Baltics, it is very possible.
  19. Gennady Fomkin
    Gennady Fomkin 24 December 2020 22: 06
    0
    It will quickly reach the point of launching cruise missiles in supersonic manner (2500 - 5000 km from the target), without entering the air defense zone, belay Tu160 is designed to break through enemy air defenses and deliver strikes in the deep rear. Modern missiles allow carriers not to enter the air defense zone at all.

    The concept has changed.
  20. CastroRuiz
    CastroRuiz 24 December 2020 22: 08
    0
    Khotelos bi mne uznat na osnove kotorogo sov. dvizhka razrabotivayut tot dla PAK DA?
    Ot Kuznecova?
  21. Gennady Fomkin
    Gennady Fomkin 24 December 2020 22: 10
    +1
    The new bomber-missile carrier will replace the current family of long-range aircraft in the armed forces: Tu-22M, Tu-95 and Tu-160. "

    Of course, I am not an expert in the field of combat aviation, but for some reason it seemed to me that each of the above-listed aircraft was sharpened for certain tasks. And now all three tasks of different directions, one might say more narrowly focused, will replace 1 PAK DA aircraft?
    1. Grigory_45
      Grigory_45 24 December 2020 23: 41
      +1
      Quote: Gennady Fomkin
      The new bomber-missile carrier will replace the current family of long-range aircraft in the armed forces: Tu-22M, Tu-95 and Tu-160. "

      Of course, I am not an expert in the field of combat aviation, but for some reason it seemed to me that each of the above-listed aircraft was sharpened for certain tasks. And now all three tasks of different directions, one might say more narrowly focused, will replace 1 PAK DA aircraft?

      Tu-22 is not a "strategist", it is a long-range bomber, its tasks are indeed somewhat different. Including the destruction of enemy ships. And the Tu-160 and Tu-95, they are the same, like all "strategists".
      PAK YES cannot be a replacement for the Tu-22M3. At least adequate.
  22. _Ugene_
    _Ugene_ 24 December 2020 22: 30
    +1
    by 2040 they may launch
  23. Stepan S
    Stepan S 24 December 2020 23: 21
    +2
    Hopefully it will roll out next year. I'd like to see the appearance. How different it is from all those drawings that we have seen in recent years.
    1. Grigory_45
      Grigory_45 25 December 2020 00: 33
      -1
      Quote: Stepan S
      Hopefully next year will roll out

      too fast. The first flight is planned for 2025, and will be rolled out in the same year.
      Quote: Stepan S
      I'd like to see the appearance

      then you need to recruit someone from the KB. If the manufacture of parts and assemblies has begun, then the design documentation is ready. Although a general arrangement drawing will be shown
    2. Grits
      Grits 25 December 2020 07: 12
      0
      Quote: Stepan S
      I'd like to see the appearance.

      Look at American Spirit. will be about the same. And so in many ways.
  24. Grigory_45
    Grigory_45 24 December 2020 23: 39
    0
    the prototype PAK DA will be created in several copies for carrying out several tests at once.
    damn it, wow! And we didn't know, Cap))) And out of naivety we thought that machines that passed the flight test program go for static and life tests)) The first manufactured glider is generally put on statistical tests
  25. Pavel57
    Pavel57 25 December 2020 00: 28
    +1
    The new figure is a few.
  26. STORM 12
    STORM 12 25 December 2020 00: 58
    0
    Quote: Gregory_45
    the prototype PAK DA will be created in several copies for carrying out several tests at once.
    damn it, wow! And we didn't know, Cap))) And out of naivety we thought that machines that passed the flight test program go for static and life tests)) The first manufactured glider is generally put on statistical tests

    do not worry
  27. Vlad5307
    Vlad5307 25 December 2020 09: 54
    0
    Quote: venik
    Quote: alexmach
    I would venture to interpret it as "made a plan for the construction of prototypes and their tests" and nothing more.

    ====
    Well, maybe so .... Not bad already !!! soldier

    The plan is a matter of paper, but the article directly states that construction is underway and (not all) components for the machines are ready, including the experimental engine, will soon be put on the bench. All this is already the implementation of the plan. For complete "joy" you have to wait for the tests and fine-tuning the machine to the series. True, this is not such a thing and fast. The new administration of the FSA with its vassals will help our government to accelerate the deadlines for all work. hi
  28. Mishanya74_2
    Mishanya74_2 26 December 2020 08: 54
    0
    For 5 years, enough fairy tales for patriots ..
    And they will come up with something else