The upgraded anti-aircraft guided missile 9M333 went into series

The modernized anti-aircraft guided missile 9M333 went into series. Concern "Kalashnikov" has finished testing and began mass production of a new missile defense system, intended for anti-aircraft systems "Strela-10M". The press service of the concern reports.

The final tests of the rocket were carried out at one of the test sites of the Central Military District in the Orenburg region, the rocket confirmed its characteristics. "Kalashnikov" posted the corresponding video on its official YouTube channel.

The description for the video says that full-scale tests of the rocket were carried out at the Donguz test site in the Orenburg region and were successfully completed. Serial production of the product has begun in the interests of the Russian Ministry of Defense.

As noted in the concern, the upgraded missile has three modes of operation of the homing head: photo contrast, infrared and jamming. SAM "9M333" allows you to fire on the principle of "fire and forget". Designed to destroy low-flying aircraft and helicopters in the conditions of the use of optical interference, as well as drones and cruise missiles.

The start of work on the modernization of 9M333 missiles was reported in 2018. The corresponding decision was made by the Ministry of Defense due to the huge amount of missile data accumulated in warehouses. At the same time, the military department is not going to remove from service the Strela-10M air defense system, although the Sosna air defense system has already been created to replace it.

The latest versions of the Strela-10 air defense system are capable of operating both in automatic mode and under the guidance of an operator. The complex is highly mobile, transferring to a combat position takes no more than 20 seconds. Target recognition occurs at a distance of 12 km, and defeat - 5 km. It is a short-range air defense system and is designed to protect subunits on the march and positions.

Comments

[yfast]

Didn't Karabakh teach you anything, of course?

[Flashpoint]

Even the Second World War did not teach some of them ...
What's wrong with a rocket? Good news!

As noted in the concern, the modernized rocket has three modes of operation of the seeker: photocontrast, infrared and jamming. SAM "9M333" allows you to fire on the principle of "fire-forget". Designed to destroy low-flying aircraft and helicopters in conditions of the use of optical interference, as well as drones and cruise missiles.

[farm2009]

Those that cannot fulfill their function and cover the column. The target hitting altitude is 3,5 km, and the UAVs fly higher. They will burn the entire column with it.

[Temples]

Quote: farm2009

The target hitting altitude is 3,5 km, and the UAVs fly higher. They will burn the entire column with it.

Those who gave a minus to the first commentator with their hats will shower any UAV
Or minus will put the UAV and it will fall.

[Flashpoint]

To be afraid of a UAV - don't ride an arrow :)
Seriously - why exactly the UAV. Let's get 10 A-10 attack aircraft at once. Or 20 Apaches ...
I am also confused by some lack of air defense / missile defense. I now want to poke a lot of air defense missile systems on 20380, and make the corvettes themselves unmanned ... But fairy tales cannot be made, at least not so simple.

[Dread]

Quote: Temples

Those who gave a minus to the first commentator with their hats will shower any UAV
Or minus will put the UAV and it will fall.

The conversation is about the modernization of the anti-aircraft missile, and not the equipment of the air defense system itself.
In 2021, Russia will enter service with the Pantsir-SM air defense system, which easily destroys all types of UAVs. It has already been shown at the military parade on June 24, 2020. Why fence a garden if the 9M333 anti-aircraft missile itself has a target hit height
no more than Н = 3500 meters.

[Tusv]

Quote: Dread

has a target hitting height
no more than Н = 3500 meters.

This is not the main thing. The last Stingers for theirs Ivanzherov and Verba hit under five kilometers. Here, under the old launcher Arrows, a three-band rocket was screwed on. That's cool

[Dread]

Dear members of the forum! Some characteristics of the 9M333 anti-aircraft missile are not presented in this news report.
The rocket received a new engine and a transport and launch container. The main advantage of the 9M333 is the new seeker (seeker) - in addition to infrared and photo contrast, jamming has been added. The autopilot of the rocket increases the stability of the seeker - the new missile system works on the "fire and forget" principle.
Source:
https://naukatehnika.com/konczern-kalashnikov-predstavil-zenitnyie-i-protivotankovyie-raketyi-na-%C2%ABarmii-2020%C2%BB.html
naukatehnika.com
The data in the article does not fully characterize the 9M333 missile. The height of the defeat of the 9M333 missile is possible more than Н = 3500 meters and all the discussions are not entirely correct.
Therefore, in some terms, I was wrong.

[alexmach]

In 2021, Russia will enter service with the Pantsir-SM air defense system, which easily destroys all types of UAVs.

Yeah .. And who, damn it? What divisions then?

Why fence a garden if the 9M333 anti-aircraft missile itself has a target hit height
no more than Н = 3500 meters.

Here it is not entirely clear, neither with the Arrow, nor even with the Pine, coming to replace it.

[Boris Chernikov]

because we have 500 machines in the Arrow troops, at what pace do you want to replace them? or from the category, you don't mind, let them die. Will you make such deliveries?

[Alexey from Perm]

It's high time to know that if you put a minus on the VO, it means you wrote everything correctly)))) but hurray-patriots minus, do not pay attention to them instead of brains, they still have a fiery motor))

[koramax81]

In the 30s-50s, people with a fiery engine first made a giant industrialization, won the war, and rebuilt the country from the ashes.
And the "thinking" only write comments on the forums by the masters, but for any business they first look at what benefit they have from this

[Alexey from Perm]

I’m not about the heroes of industrialization, and in general I’m not about the Soviet people, whom I respect and did in the USSR myself. I wrote about jingoistic patriots who watch TV and operate only with the data they were given on TV.

[Flashpoint]

Here it is worth deciding - not only UAVs fly higher. So there are many options for the column to burn.
And the air defense should be echeloned and multi-component.

[VO3A]

Vinaigrette in all comments! If you send a column to attack, then it will be destroyed not only with an arrow, but also with the most promising "Shell"! Columns in modern warfare do not advance. If the column moves with a specific task, then it moves within the positional area. Inside this positional area, defense and air defense, as well as the possibility of destroying any invading enemy in real time, has already been organized ... This should be the case in a normal army ... If small-sized UAVs or Komikadze drones break through, then the column should have its own air defense equipment. This is exactly the case ... Each position area has a command post with an operator on duty, it has its own means of reconnaissance, control and destruction of the enemy, providing real-time work ... No headquarters, no great commanders, telephones, no agreements must, and generals too ... Do you think we have this? And if I say that the convoy may have its own reconnaissance means in the form of a UAV, then they will immediately call me a "storyteller" who has played computer games ... If there is no such organization, then there will be Karabakh ...

[Tusv]

Quote: VO3A

Vinaigrette in all comments! If you send a column to attack, it will be destroyed not only with an arrow, but also with the most promising "Armor"

Certainly, your comments are not "vinaigrette" at all, but wild confusion. You are far from the Paramilitary Organization. They cover the column on the march. Troops S-300V4 are far away, up to four hundred, in the middle of Buka up to 70, front-line Torah up to 20, in the trenches of Strela and Verba up to five. Shells are not at all military complexes. There, the life of the calculation in military operations is a broken penny

[VO3A]

Who was covered in Syria? Prokhorenko was covered? Wagner's men who were shot were covered? Were our defeated and attacked columns covered by pro-Turkish militants? To fight in the LDNR and Karabakh, and in Libya LEARNED? Far from a paramilitary organization? Do we see something on our borders? People like you in 41, on foreign territory and with little blood, have already won ... You are still preparing to win like this ... Smiley in .......

[Tusv]

Are you a military man or a political scientist? I do not communicate with political scientists. Very pathetic individuals

[Alt 22]

In Syria, who needs to be covered, almost no one reached Khmeimim. The Wagnerites were not thrown against the United States, and they did not expect that the United States would intervene, therefore, they did not cover them up - there are questions of politics, not the inability to cover.
In the LDNR, they covered it up, they even shot down the "points" there, and the aviation hasn't been flying there for a long time, if you don't know. There was no Russian army in Karabakh. In Libya - the events showed that complex equipment in the hands of a savage is a heap of metal, and even then - a lot of UAVs were shot down there, for example - "During the specified period, LNA Haftara declared 78 destroyed Turkish UAVs" Bayraktar TB-2 "operating under the guise of PNS Libya.
99% of these applications are confirmed (there are photos or videos) - 19 (it is worth noting that Lost Armor counted 2020 confirmed vehicles as of mid-May 15)

[VO3A]

No offense. You are even in the wrong league! Do you know what an information field, information awareness is? You don't have to fight yourself, but you need to see everything and control everything! We have no tactical intelligence systems! We have people doing everything, and if there are no people, then we are not able to do anything, we do not see anything ... We have no information in real time, and talking about the destruction of the enemy in real time with the help of technical means and dreaming is not necessary! Do you know when a Boeing was shot down in Donbass, our people began to say that the Americans saw it ?! They see and control almost everything in almost our LDNR, but we are nearby and see nothing, control nothing and know nothing !!! We do not know where the tanks have gone, we do not control the movement of ukrovoysk! We see nothing at our border, we do not know how, we have no means and we do not even want to be able to do this !!! What to say about Karabakh, Syria, Libya! The level of modern intelligence is "0"! In our country, only people on death row see everything and lead everything! This is our "modern" army ... Is it clear now?

[Boris Chernikov]

and how do we know what kind of army you have there ... so far I only see hysterics .. why do you have the same army in Syria, Libya, Karabakh, Donbass .. And what else has Iraq not cited as an example? less hysteria, more write on the case

[Cottodraton]

And what has zur got to do with it?

[Boris Chernikov]

how should the air defense cover the infantry from the infantry? The Wagnerites were hit by local squabbles. LDNR .. well, yes .. remind .. what happened to the Ukrainian Air Force? and how many "Our broken columns by pro-Turkish militants" were there .. let's get more details .. where and how much ..

[zyablik.olga]

Quote: Tusv

Military S-300V4 far away

Do you know how many S-300V4s we have in our troops?

[Tusv]

Quote: zyablik.olga

Do you know how many S-300V4s we have in our troops?

Enough to avenge the Aerospace Forces.

[zyablik.olga]

Quote: Tusv

Quote: zyablik.olga

Do you know how many S-300V4s we have in our troops?

Enough to avenge the Aerospace Forces.

You don't even know that about half of the S-300V4 are part of the Aerospace Forces.

[Comrade I]

Quote: farm2009

Those that cannot fulfill their function and cover the column. The target hitting altitude is 3,5 km, and the UAVs fly higher. They will burn the entire column with it.

These drones completely overshadowed the minds of the people. Or has it always been this way?
Well, this rocket and the installation itself are not intended for this, they are of a different class and have other tasks. And for higher altitude targets, other missiles and other systems. Heavier and more expensive.
MANPADS also do not seem to fly above 3-4 km. And what now, to give them up since they won't get to these of your bayraktars ??? Horror. Wild horror what's going on in their heads ...

[Flashpoint]

Exactly. It seems to me that if you now stick the S-400 on a barge and call this product "Unmanned destroyer Leader", people will rush to cry with happiness ...

[Kart]

This "people" will still cry, even if they build a Death Star in orbit.
This same brigade "everything was gone" traditionally howls under every news.

[OgnennyiKotik]

Quote: farm2009

UAVs fly higher.

Not all UAVs fly higher. Against the MALE class (bayraktar refers to them), Buk / S300 / 350/400 are needed. Arrow / pine is needed against low-altitude, light, kamikaze drones, conditionally against Orbiters and Harops.
There are questions about the arrow and the pine, but they are about the means of detection. The fact that the rocket was updated is good.

[Dread]

Quote: OgnennyiKotik

Against the MALE class (bayraktar refers to them) need Beech / S300 / 350/400.

Explain, by what criterion do you assume the choice of air defense systems and air defense systems? You are not entirely correct.

[OgnennyiKotik]

Height up to 12 km, range 30-40 km. This is the altitude and range from which MALE targets are detected with optics and radars, the range of weapons is even greater.

[Dread]

Quote: OgnennyiKotik

Height up to 12 km, range 30-40 km. This is the altitude and range from which MALE targets are detected with optics and radars, the range of weapons is even greater.

You have forgotten about the minimum maximum RCS of the UAV, below which the detection radar of the air defense missile system cannot detect the UAV. For "Pantsir-C1" it is equal to EPR = 0,0002 sq. meter, that is, below this indicator, the detection radar cannot detect the target.

[OgnennyiKotik]

There is no talk about Thor and Carapace, they are useless against MALE.
In principle, without aviation detection and reconnaissance means, ground means are extremely vulnerable.

[Dread]

Quote: OgnennyiKotik

There is no talk about Thor and Carapace, they are useless against MALE.

Do not confuse the Pantsir-C2 in service with Russia with the Pantsir-1 in service with the UAE - this is a big difference.
Target hitting altitude H = 0-15 km, target hitting range is more
20 km. The United States has nothing close now.
"Pantsir-SM" - the year of entry into service in 2021, developed in 2016, is being tested, shown at the military parade on June 24, 2020. In addition to anti-aircraft missiles - nails, it has a hypersonic anti-aircraft missile.

In 2016, the development of a modification of the Pantsir-SM complex was completed, in which, due to the use of a newly developed multifunctional aiming station, the target destruction range was increased to 40 km. [12]
https://ru.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9F%D0%B0%D0%BD%D1%86%D0%B8%D1%80%D1%8C-%D0%A11#cite_note-%D0%A2%D0%90%D0%A1%D0%A1_0610-12

[OgnennyiKotik]

Quote: Dread

"Pantsir-SM" - entered service in 2021,

If it confirms the declared characteristics, it will be put into service, will go into production. Then it will be possible to talk about its capabilities. It's still very early.

[Dread]

Do not confuse the Pantsir-C2 in service with Russia with the Pantsir-1 in service with the UAE - this is a big difference.
Target hitting altitude H = 0-15 km, target hitting range is more
20 km. The United States has nothing close now

OgnennyiKotik - why "Pantsir-C2" did not suit you, which, after upgrades, easily knocks down a UAV in Khmeinim and there are no comments on its work. Probably not satisfied with the fact that he is?

[kapitan92]

Quote: OgnennyiKotik

There is no talk about Thor and Carapace, they are useless against MALE.

Well, that's enough nonsense to write. Can't get away from the euphoria after using "bairaks" in the NKR?
TOR M2U with 9M317 missile,. The boundaries of the affected area, maximum range up to 50 km, and in height of defeat - up to 25 km. The missile is capable of hitting targets maneuvering with overloads up to 24g.
And this is not a new rocket, there are already modifications.
PANTSIR-S1M Experience of deployment in Syria. Uses a new 57E6M-E surface-to-air missile with an increased ceiling from 15 to 18 km (9,3 to 11,2 miles) range of destruction from 20 to 30 km (12 to 19 miles) and speeds from 1300 to 1700 m / s. (4700-6100 km / h; 2900-3800 mph), as well as a heavier fragmentation warhead weighing 25 kg compared to the 20 kg warhead of a standard 57E6-E missile.

[OgnennyiKotik]

Quote: kapitan92

TOR M2U with missile 9M317

Since when have Buk missiles been installed on Thor?

Quote: kapitan92

The new 57E6M-E surface-to-air missile is used

When it confirms its characteristics and goes en masse to the troops, then we can talk about it.

[kapitan92]

Quote: OgnennyiKotik

When it confirms its characteristics and goes en masse to the troops, then we can talk about it.

She has already confirmed her characteristics in Syria.
9M317 is to blame. My typo.
Technical and tactical characteristics of the Tor system
Affected area:

range: from 1 to 16 km
in height: from 0,01 to 10 km
Reaction time, sec .: 4,8
Max. target speed 1000 m / s
The number of simultaneously fired targets: 4
Maximum missile overload: 30 g
Zur flight speed: 1000 m / s
Minimum target EPR: 0,05 m²
Guidance system: jam-proof radio command
Number of target channels: 4 channel
The number of missiles on combat vehicles: 16 missiles 9М338К
Development Year: 2008
Crew: 3 people.
Power reserve 500 km
Do you want to say that these complexes with similar characteristics in height and range will not destroy the "bayrak"?

[OgnennyiKotik]

I'm talking about the MALE class, not specifically Bayraktar. There is nothing super interesting about this particular UAV. Just a massive, relatively cheap UAV.
MALE has a height of up to 14 km, higher already HALE.
For the most part, they fly at maximum altitudes of 10-12 km. Optics works up to 30-35 km. Radars up to 100 km (in real conditions up to 40 km)
These parameters should be counted on.
Thor just doesn't seem to get enough, the C1M / C2 Shell is at the limit, but there is already a question of detection, CM will wait and see.

Honestly, all this talk about Bayraktars is boring. They don't work alone. In Syria and Libya, together with Anka, in the NKR with Hermes. Air defense (I mean Buki, S-300, Pantsiri-S1M / C2) was carried out by a bundle. UAVs with electronic warfare or electronic warfare aircraft / ground stations, strike UAVs or other strike means.
Although Bayraktar alone is enough for arrows and Wasps, for Tor Bayraktar + harop.

Without an aviation component, any ground-based air defense is just a target. Which can be destroyed in one way or another.

[alexmach]

Explain, by what criterion do you assume the choice of air defense systems and air defense systems? You are not entirely correct.

So others just won't get it :)

[Dread]

Quote: alexmach

So others just won't get it :)

They simply will not find a UAV, due to the low RCS and even close. For example -
The minimum RCS of targets that can be detected by Buk-M1, Buk-M1 is equal to RCS = 0,05 sq. meters, which indicates the impossibility of detecting targets with an RCS below this parameter.

[kapitan92]

Quote: OgnennyiKotik

Against the MALE class (bayraktar refers to them), Buk / S300 / 350/400 are needed.

Thor 2M was not considered? Perfectly work on "bairak"!

[Dart2027]

Quote: farm2009

The target hitting altitude is 3,5 km, and the UAVs fly higher.

Depends on what. In addition, in addition to high-altitude UAVs, there are also guided bombs, kamikaze drones, etc., that's how it will go as the last line of defense.

[aleks26]

Quote: farm2009

The target hitting altitude is 3,5 km, and the UAVs fly higher.

B-52 is even higher, so what? Arrows are not the only ones with the columns. To each his own

[Boris Chernikov]

maybe the Armenians should have SYSTEMALLY deployed air defense systems and close all echelons?

[Pashhenko Nikolay]

She is bad at range. The range of the missile defense system should at least exceed the range of launches of anti-aircraft missiles from helicopters. And this is at least eight and more.

[Old tanker]

On antiques, in view of the fact that there is a lot of it in warehouses, they screwed a new GOS and rejoice. And the fact that aircraft at such an altitude practically do not fly anymore and no one takes into account that close. On the "lantern" stricken by artillery, as usual, they effectively hit and rejoice at the hit. The main thing is to shoot a spectacular video, but the fact that in a real combat situation is a means to really cover up nothing can be stupidly hushed up. Realistically, only if you act from ambushes on the routes of flying targets. So here MANPADS are much more effective in terms of stealth.
Very slsedy with their peremogami reminds.

[aleks26]

Quote: Old Tankman

The main thing is to shoot a spectacular video, and the fact that in a real combat situation is a means to really cover up nothing can be stupidly hushed up.

However, in Ukraine, all aviation was landed, including with the help of such arrows.

[SovAr238A]

Quote: aleks26

Quote: Old Tankman

The main thing is to shoot a spectacular video, and the fact that in a real combat situation is a means to really cover up nothing can be stupidly hushed up.

However, in Ukraine, all aviation was landed, including with the help of such arrows.

The Ukrainians landed some of ours in Georgia, ours in Ukraine.
Simply because both technique and tactics are the same.

As soon as different equipment and different tactics collide, whether in Syria, Iraq or Artsakh, I don't see defirambs at all ..

[Vadim237]

These missiles will not be able to intercept gliding mini bombs launched from the same attack UAVs by kamikaze drones, they will also not be able to shoot down - this complex does not even have an optical channel.

[Aviator_]

- this complex does not even have an optical channel.

the upgraded missile has three modes of seeker operation: photocontrast, infrared and jamming.

A photocontrast, isn't it optical?

[Vadim237]

What is needed is IR and TV optical plus night vision detection channels - the rockets that are on the Arrow can only work for jet engines and engines with hot exhaust in UV, they do not work in order to induce the negative contrast of the airframe of the aircraft against the background of the sky - against gliding bombs with a laser guided and kamikaze drones, they are useless and these means have a launch range of more than 10 kilometers, as well as anti-tank guided missiles of the third and fourth generations in the latter air-based and supersonic speed. And this modernization of the Arrow 10M3 is nothing more than drank some dough on a complex that does not meet modern war requirements.

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Flashpoint

What's wrong with a rocket?

in terms of parameters, it does not correspond to modern realities - neither in terms of the ceiling, nor in range (even a helicopter with an ATGM has every chance of hitting the air defense system, while remaining inaccessible itself). To the "Arrow" itself - if possible, target detection. Even MANPADS "Igla-S" and "Verba" have better characteristics and a greater probability of destruction. In the text, it is directly written, because of what all these movements -

The start of work on the modernization of 9M333 missiles was reported in 2018. The corresponding decision was made by the Ministry of Defense due to the huge amount of missile data accumulated in warehouses

... It is a forced measure. It's like the story of the BMP-1 - the car is no longer a cake, but it's a pity to leave it, because at one time thousands of them were made

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Flashpoint

Even the Second World War did not teach some of them ...
What's wrong with a rocket? Good news!

With this ...
2013 year ...
https://missiles2go.ru/2013/08/31/%d0%bc%d0%b0%d0%ba%d1%81-2013-%d1%80%d0%b0%d0%ba%d0%b5%d1%82%d1%8b-%d0%b2%d0%b8%d1%85%d1%80%d1%8c-1-9%d0%bc333-%d1%81-8%d0%b4%d1%84-%d0%b8-%d1%81-13%d0%b4%d1%84-%d0%bd%d0%b0-%d1%81%d1%82%d0%b5/
almost everything was for graduation ...
But ...
They dragged on for 7 years.
During this time and Pivia, and Syria, and Karabakh ...
And wherever the old Arrows were, they were destroyed ...

[Flashpoint]

Thanks for the link, I will dig at my leisure to find out the volumes of issue and other nuances.

[Alien From]

For high-altitude purposes such as bayraktar, there are other gifts.

[Alexey from Perm]

It HAS SAID, a huge number of missiles in warehouses, and this is the main thing, you think it's a useless thing, the main thing is to master the money, the plant works again, everyone is fine until the war breaks out ...

[loki565]

Why so many short-range air defense systems, a couple of options would be enough. Arrow 10 is morally outdated, and after Karabakh you can't even get it for export.

[businessv]

Quote: loki565

Arrow 10 is morally outdated, and after Karabakh you can't even smell it for export.

Great complex, colleague! The main thing is that today it can be used in echeloned defense, with goals already defined for it, and there is never a lot of short-range defense equipment, especially when using the notorious "UAV swarm"!

The latest versions of the Strela-10 air defense system are capable of operating both in automatic mode and under the guidance of an operator.

I have never seen a slip of the 10th during a practice shooting, therefore, apparently, they do not want to give it up yet.

[farm2009]

It was great 40 years ago, but now it is outdated.

[jovanni]

Quote: businessv

Great complex, colleague! The main thing is that today it can be used in echeloned defense, with goals already defined for it, and there is never a lot of short-range defense equipment, especially when using the notorious "UAV swarm"!

Well, all the same, 5 km! What kind of train is this? The same notorious "barraktractor" from 8 km will soak its target, and why should it fly into this echelon? ...

[businessv]

Quote: Jovanni

Well, all the same, 5 km! What kind of train is this?

Echelon of short-range protection, when the means of attack already reach the object of protection.

[Old tanker]

And what will "Strela-10" shoot down in this echelon? Large targets that the operator can see with his own eyes (there are no other means of detection, only a range finder) or having taught target designation and will be able to capture the seeker within the reach will not be found, and the operator will not see a trifle or the seeker will not capture it. On high-speed targets, guidance and capture will not have time. The working hours are too long.

[businessv]

Quote: Old Tankman

And what will "Strela-10" shoot down in this echelon? Large targets that the operator can see with his own eyes (there are no other means of detection, only a rangefinder)

We missed the main thing!

The latest versions of the Strela-10 air defense system are capable of operating both in automatic mode and under the guidance of an operator.

Therefore, the operator has nothing to do with it, I wrote about it! The automatic mode provides for the assignment of targets for different types of memory and launchers using early warning radar.

[Old tanker]

In automatic mode, the operator has nothing to do with it. And the homing head has something to do with it. It will not see targets with a small signature, and with a long launch range it will not work. So all this automatic control will not help.

[businessv]

Quote: Old Tankman

In automatic mode, the operator has nothing to do with it. And the homing head has something to do with it.

Pancake! You are very inattentive, as if you only read the comments and not the article!

the upgraded missile has three modes of seeker operation: photocontrast, infrared and jamming. SAM "9M333" allows you to fire on the principle of "fire-forget". Designed to destroy low-flying aircraft and helicopters in conditions of the use of optical jamming, as well as drones and cruise missiles.

[Old tanker]

So what? Photocontrast and infrared channels on this rocket were originally. Now we have added a jammer. Only low-flying planes and helicopters have not entered the Strel-10 strike zone for a long time (we do not take the Ukrainians into account), since they have weapons with a greater range than the 9m333 missile. So the homing head of this missile stupidly will not be able to capture the target because of its greater ability to capture range. Now it is clear?

[loki565]

Too small ammunition, the height and range of destruction also leaves much to be desired. As for me, it is better to buy new tori, they are quite effective and can shoot while moving.

[businessv]

Quote: loki565

Too small ammunition, the height and range of destruction also leaves much to be desired.

I'm not saying that this is worse, but what to do with ready-made installations and missiles ?! The ammunition capacity is small, but reloading takes minutes! Moreover, as I already wrote, it is possible to connect to the protection complex, which will assign a target and determine the launch time. I think that in the case of a big nix, everyone will find work.

[Vadim237]

Upgrade and sell to third countries. But here's an interesting thing Tor M2 can work in automatic mode - but the Armenians in Karabakh with the help of these air defense systems did not intercept anything even watching the Bayraktar complex when the radar station was turned on at Tor.

[Cottodraton]

Was it really loaded?

[Vadim237]

Most likely he was charged, otherwise he would have gone to charge - but instead he went to the garage where he was hit with all the drones and weapons that Azerbaijan used.

[businessv]

Quote: Vadim237

Tor M2 can work in automatic mode - but the Armenians in Karabakh did not intercept anything with the help of these air defense systems

They did not have an echeloned defense with early warning radars.

[Vadim237]

Doesn't he see Bayraktar's radar?

[businessv]

Quote: Vadim237

Doesn't he see Bayraktar's radar?

Arrow 10 does not have its own radar!

[Old tanker]

One "Apache" hangs from 8 to 16 ATGMs. Fire platoon "Strel-10" 2 units. A total of 8 missiles on launch. Considering the effectiveness of the destruction of Strela-10 missiles, these 8 missiles will not be enough to repel an attack of even a minimal number of ATGMs on one Apache. Well, no one will give the Arrow crews to spend minutes on reloading.

[businessv]

Quote: Old Tankman

One "Apache" hangs from 8 to 16 ATGMs. Fire platoon "Strel-10" 2 units. A total of 8 missiles on launch. Considering the effectiveness of the destruction of Strela-10 missiles, these 8 missiles will not be enough to repel an attack of even a minimal number of ATGMs on one Apache.

Pancake! Well, how strange your head is working, colleague! What kind of devil do you have to wait for while the Apache will shoot our tanks ?! "Arrows" have always been sharpened to destroy exactly such targets as the Apache! How many "arrows" do you think it will take to shoot down the Apache along with his ATGMs ?!

[Old tanker]

When the "Strela-10" was adopted, "Apaches" were not yet in the mines. So they sharpened it for other purposes. The range of ATGMs of the first Apaches was 6 km, and Strel-10 - 3,5! So they could not and cannot fight the Apaches. The Tunguska could hardly get them. Now the Apaches work from 8-12. So now the lot of "Strel-10" is the fight against missiles of various classes or actions from ambushes on the flight routes.

[Old tanker]

I have never seen a slip of the 10th during a practice shooting, therefore, apparently, they do not want to give it up yet.

Why did they shoot at shooting practice? As usual, on the lights or on "Phalanx" in pursuit? So now SVN with such "greenhouse" characteristics has long been gone.

[businessv]

Quote: Old Tankman

As usual, on the lights or on "Phalanx" in pursuit?

This is as usual, as well as for the same - the same 10th, converted, not in pursuit, essno. I have never seen shooting at the "lights" in my life!

[Dread]

Quote: loki565

Why so much short-range air defense, a couple of options would be enough.

The designers and the leadership of the Ministry of Defense know better. It is more difficult to create a new air defense system in a short time than to upgrade an old one to the level of a new one, although it happens in a different way. In this case, a lot depends on the anti-aircraft missile.

[V1er]

Quote: yfast

Didn't Karabakh teach you anything, of course?

Quote: loki565

Arrow 10 is morally outdated, and after Karabakh you can't even smell it for export.

Could it be that this Arrow is temporary until the Pine arrives? And that it is not intended at all against drones like Bayraktar? She has other tasks. Moreover, Russia has a whole network of radars and is capable of monitoring the sky, unlike Armenia. Built in the network - The arrow will automatically see everything around and act forward. The Armenians, judging by their actions, generally did not control their heavens. Or didn't want to.

[Lt. Air Force stock]

Instead of Sosna, it would be more logical to create an air defense system with R-73 and R-27ET aircraft missiles, add a starting solid-propellant booster and that's it. Many countries follow this path: the USA, Israel, etc.

[Old tanker]

Do not confuse the military air defense and air defense of the country with its "network of radars" they have completely different tasks and they do not work in a single network, and they should not. The military air defense has sufficient detection equipment of its own. The question is not detection, but defeat. That Arrow will not shoot up to that SVN that can capture its GOS and manually control the operator - in terms of efficiency like an ATGM, try to drive it into a high-speed even non-maneuvering target!

[carstorm 11]

Don't you confuse an arrow with a wasp?

[_Ugene_]

Against whom do we need short-range air defense? Modern helicopters, airplanes, attack drones attack with high-precision weapons from medium-range air defense distances, to whom and for what purpose is it now to break into the near zone? They used to enter the near zone for attack with nourses and riflemen, now no one will be exposed to such a risk, especially high-tech armies, it is clear who we are talking about

[lucul]

Against whom do we need short-range air defense?

Against the fact that they missed medium and long-range air defense.

Modern helicopters, airplanes, attack drones attack with precision weapons from medium-range air defense distances,

On our plains, not a single enemy aircraft / helicopter / UAV will reach the attack range, because it will be shot down while approaching.

[_Ugene_]

Against the fact that they missed medium and long-range air defense.

I mean, if the medium and long-range air defense missed him, this does not mean that he will break into the near zone, why should he? even relatively cheap shock drones now attack from great distances

[lucul]

I mean, if the medium and long-range air defense missed him, this does not mean that he will break into the near zone, why should he?

Yes, I'm talking about psychology - the pilot will always attack from the maximum distance. But the fact is that our air defense missiles have a maximum engagement range of two or even three times the maximum range of its missiles.
With a single enemy raid, it will be loaded with long-range missiles (there are not many of them), and even with a massive enemy raid, they will try to take on board as much as possible, and these will not be the most long-range missiles.

[Dart2027]

Quote: _Ugene_

even relatively cheap shock drones now attack from great distances

This is what they attack and will shoot down with. In addition, other air defense systems operate at high altitudes and recently there has been a tendency to cuddle up to the ground.

[_Ugene_]

and lately there has been a tendency to cuddle to the ground

and who got it?

[Dart2027]

Quote: _Ugene_

who did she appear

Yes, the same Israel has long been using this technique - to sneak at low altitudes, where the radars do not see a surprise attack.

[businessv]

Quote: _Ugene_

helicopters, airplanes, attack drones attack with high-precision weapons from medium-range air defense distances, to whom and for what purpose is it now to break into the near zone?

Duc fired shells and break through! They must be shot down!

[Flashpoint]

Quote: _Ugene_

Against whom do we need short-range air defense? Modern helicopters, airplanes, attack drones attack with high-precision weapons from medium-range air defense distances, to whom and for what purpose is it now to break into the near zone? They used to enter the near zone for attack with nourses and riflemen, now no one will be exposed to such a risk, especially high-tech armies, it is clear who we are talking about

Time to draw a caricature:
The Apache, hovering at a height of 15 meters, fires incessantly with Hellfire rockets into the distance, and belt conveyor packs attached to it with new missiles from the factory on the ground automatically recharge it. Also fuel hoses from tankers. And in the distance, the glow of burning enemy tank hordes is full. And the planet's climate is getting hotter and hotter from this "hellfire", and the oceans are drowning the land, because the tank generals cry over the burnt boxes without stopping ...

[lucul]

Apache hanging at a height of 15 meters

The range of the Apache missiles is simply no, against the background of the updated missiles of our helicopters)))

[Vadim237]

Yes, we would have the same as their new one with a triple homing head and a flight range of 28 kilometers.

[lucul]

Yes, we would have the same as their new one with a triple homing head and a flight range of 28 kilometers.

We want to put Hermes on our helicopters, and he has a flight range of 100 km.)))

[Vadim237]

Airborne Hermes has a range of 20 kilometers - and this complex does not work on the principle of firing and forgetting.

[Grigory_45]

Quote: lucul

The range of Apache missiles is simply no

The Hellfire flies 10 km. Twice as far as the Arrow missile defense system.

[lucul]

The Hellfire flies 10 km. Twice as far as the Arrow missile defense system.

The R-74M missile, for the Mi-28, has a range of destruction of air targets (like the Apache) of 40 km)))

[Grigory_45]

Quote: lucul

Rocket R-74M, for Mi-28

what does the missile for the Mi-28 have to do with it? If the air defense system must provide air defense, incl. and from enemy anti-tank helicopters?

[lucul]

what does the missile for the Mi-28 have to do with it? If the air defense system must provide air defense, incl. and from enemy anti-tank helicopters?

Yes, despite the fact that with such missiles - the Apache simply will not appear in the air))))

[Grigory_45]

))) Yes Yes
And we also have the S-400, nothing will appear in the sky at all) Why are we here talking about the Arrow?
Have you ever tried to write books on unscientific fiction?

[lucul]

Have you ever tried to write books on unscientific fiction?

So you are considering strictly isolated systems)))
I showed you why they won't be isolated)))

[Grigory_45]

Quote: lucul

So you are considering strictly isolated systems)))

or so it seemed to you)

Quote: lucul

I showed you

which is quite pulling on a science fiction writer-utopian. The columns on the march are covered by helicopters. Helicopters are provided with everything they need. The enemy is a sucker and mediocrity. And the fact that there is such a thing as a harsh reality is not known? That what is written on paper and reality are slightly different things?
So it turns out that the question: what will the Strela do with the Apache, hovering six kilometers away, you are not able to answer. And you start to invent. And the Apache operator knows how to fire up Hellfire. He did not read your science fiction, alas ...

[lucul]

The columns on the march are covered by helicopters.

Namely, in which the missile range is 40 km, versus 10-28 km for the Apache)))

[Grigory_45]

Quote: lucul

The columns on the march are covered by helicopters.

Namely, in which the missile range is 40 km, versus 10-28 km for the Apache)))

>: - D

[lucul]

>: - D

Doubt the range? )))

[Grigory_45]

Quote: lucul

>: - D

Doubt the range? )))

in range - no.
In the presence of rockets on helicopters, and the helicopters themselves - quite. Mi-28 not air defense

[lucul]

In the presence of rockets on helicopters, and the helicopters themselves - quite. Mi-28 not air defense

Is the Mi-28 unable to cover a column of armored vehicles? )))
Or that the R-74M air-to-air missile was installed on it for a reason? )))

[Grigory_45]

1. We have only about 28 Mi-100s.
2. He has more important tasks than providing air defense for motorized columns. Namely, the destruction of enemy armored vehicles and fire support of their own ground forces. air defense missions are assigned precisely to the air defense missile systems and anti-aircraft systems in combat formations, as well as to fighter aircraft.
3. Didn't even see the photo of the R-74 suspended under the helicopter, not to mention its use. Although, as reported, they began to master their production in my hometown several years ago.

Enough, science fiction writer?

[lucul]

He has more important tasks than providing air defense for motorized columns.

и

Namely - fire support for their own ground forces

Don't you find a contradiction? )))))

Didn't even see the photo of the R-74 suspended under the helicopter, not to mention its use

If you have not seen something, it doesn’t mean that it isn’t))))

Although, as reported, they began to master their production in my hometown several years ago.

Have we started producing our rockets in Haifa? ))))

[Grigory_45]

Quote: lucul

He has more important tasks than providing air defense for motorized columns.

и
Namely - fire support for their own ground forces

Don't you find a contradiction? )))))

not at all. Direct air support is organized air attacks against enemy targets, the destruction or suppression of which has a direct impact on the course of combined arms combat. Suppression of artillery, destruction of armored vehicles, fortifications, communication points and l / s of the enemy. Previously, attack aircraft and front-line bombers were engaged in this, and with the advent of helicopters, these tasks became their tasks. Fighter aircraft and anti-aircraft systems are fighting against the air enemy.
You are all upside down. "Helicopters will be engaged in air defense, and air defense missile systems will shoot infantry and tanks."

Quote: lucul

Didn't even see the photo of the R-74 suspended under the helicopter, not to mention its use

If you have not seen something, it doesn’t mean that it isn’t))))

if you've seen - show the photo. And then you talk about something vague. I know that this rocket exists in real life, I know where they are produced, I saw the assembled products. I did not see it on the helicopter. Do army aviation have them at all, and how many are there? We also have a lot on paper, but in fact ... BMPT "Terminator" is aware of how many years already? And only at the end of this year, eight cars were sent for wax operation. Could you say that BMPT were in the army? Of course not. And what is there? Again, no, 8 cars are tears.
The same story with the Vikhr ATGM.
But according to your logic - they were and are, after all, they were shown on TV!
What matters is not what is designed, manufactured, maybe even shown at an exhibition and parade. What matters only is what is in the aircraft and in the sane quantity.

Quote: lucul

Although, as reported, they began to master their production in my hometown several years ago.

Have we started producing our rockets in Haifa? ))))

The rockets are assembled at Kurganpribor. There, back in 2015, it was decided to organize a "rocket" shop.
And I recommend you take a pill, otherwise the voices in your head are getting more insistent and insistent ...

[Castro Ruiz]

Bila bi eta raketa u Armian v boyekomplete ikh Strela-10M, tak bi neopozorilis.
Esli ya pravilno ponial, podniali visotu iz 3,5 do 5 km i dalnost do 12 km.
No vopros ne ochen nadezhnikh sredstv opoznania i navedenia 7 Streli-10, khot M ostalsa.

[farm2009]

Wrong, 12 km is the detection range, the destruction range is 5 km, nothing has been said about the altitude, but it remained as it was 3,5 km. All the modernization consists, as I understand it, in the fact that the homing head was more perfect.

[Castro Ruiz]

Thank you for clarifying.

[Nikolaevich I]

I cannot share your optimism; because. the performance characteristics of the new rocket in terms of range and reach in height did not catch my eye! If the "altitude" was raised from 3,5 km to 5 km, then this is "normal and logical"! And the increased range from 5 km to 12 km raises considerable doubts! If it were up to 8 km, I would have believed it much easier!

[Castro Ruiz]

Vi pravi. Tut legko oshibatsa kogda neto tokhnikh TTX.

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Nikolaevich I

If the "altitude" was raised from 3,5 km to 5 km, then this is "normal-logical"! And the increased range from 5 km to 12 km causes considerable doubt! If it were up to 8 km, I would have believed it much easier!

did not lift anything, the rocket energy remained at the same level. As it was, it remains - 5 km in range and 3,5 km ceiling. We screwed on a new GOS, that's all the modernization.

[Nikolaevich I]

Quote: Gregory_45

did not lift anything

Quote: Gregory_45

We screwed on a new GOS, that's all the modernization.

And here in more detail, pliz! In the message there was a mention of the installation of a new engine ... hence the right to assume that the engine is more powerful and performance characteristics can be better ... But there is still a "nuance"! When reading messages, comments, one gets the impression that many are talking not about the upgraded SAM 9M333 (like "9M333M" ...), but about the SAM 9M333 itself ... which has been known for a long time! What do we know about zur 9M333? 1.BCH = 5 kg; 2. GOS: a) IR ... b) FC ... c) "noise-analyzing" with a selective block with analysis of the trajectory "pattern" of the target ... What else has been added to the "new" missile?

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Nikolaevich I

When reading messages, comments, one gets the impression that many are not talking about the upgraded SAM 9M333 (like "9M333M" ...); but about the SAM 9M333 itself

so it is about 9M333 we are talking about. It differs from the previously used 9M37 by the presence of a new tri-band (optical-infrared) seeker. The noise immunity and the likelihood of damage have increased slightly.
9M333 tests were completed this year, it went into production at the Kalashnikov
We have not heard anything about any new rocket with other indices)

[Nikolaevich I]

Quote: Gregory_45

9M333 tests ended this year,

Strange! I know about this rocket, as they say, not for the first year! I have a "rocket encyclopedia" for 2002 (!) ... there 9M333 is described as well-known! Moreover, the 9M333 is a different missile compared to the 9M37M, although they have "common features"! There is, in my opinion, a kind of confusion in the presentation of information to the media!

[rocket757]

Normal, effective last-line missile! Cheap and cheerful. Taking into account the fact that all our air defense is echeloned and no PANTSIRI, BUKI, TORA, alone do not wander, everything is in the subject.
Look at all sorts of foreign armies, NOBODY thinks of giving up the air defense of the last line, and the systems there are no younger and no better ... if they have them at all.
In general, a bunch of "experts" have gathered and are carrying .... in short, it is!

[Vitaly161]

but what is true is true, all NATO air defense systems in the near zone (the last frontier, so to speak) are also of considerable age, and no one is bothered about this, there is no problem for Strela to get the same ax, with proper target designation (external) apparently for this purpose it is intended

[rocket757]

Until systems of a fundamentally different quality, efficiency, stringers, arrows, etc. appear, will serve until the end.
There will be modernization, but no fundamental changes.
All boron cheese from our missiles, empty, amateurish chatter.

[Vitaly161]

yes, this is understandable, I just do not understand the grief of commentators who whine that Arrow is useless against bikotars, although this is not her job at all

[rocket757]

So it is obvious that the increase in performance characteristics increases the price of the product significantly.
Therefore, universal systems, for all cases, are expensive and will never reach the performance, cost-effectiveness, specialized systems.
For most drones, a MANPADS released eleven years ago is a complete kirdyk. Moreover, the price of that rocket, by the end of its service life, is practically zero, and there is also savings on disposal.
So it turns out that experts from the couch, not only in tactics, technology, in any way and about anything, also are not friendly with arithmetic.
These are the experts they are ...

[svoit]

It is unlikely that a modern short-range air defense system will have to shoot down all sorts of planes, helicopters and other UAVs, but they must protect from any missile defense and other shells

[tralflot1832]

A huge number of missiles in warehouses are subject to modernization. And how many arrows 10 are scattered around the world. The arrow 10, which was scattered in Karabakh from Ukraine, was modernized only by painting, before being sold to Jordan, and then it ended up in Karabakh. If it shoots well at its radius, it will be Arrow 10 is not the only thing in the army's air defense system! The Syrians fought off Turkish UAVs!

[AVA77]

I read the comments of all the propals and understood.
The Americans do not know that short-range air defense is rubbish silly.
https://topwar.ru/159927-staraja-platforma-s-novymi-sistemami-modernizacija-zrk-avenger-ssha.html

[rocket757]

Yes, yes, stringers are modernizing, in every way, but they are not in a hurry to write off in the trash!
These our couch experts are ready to use our GOOD weapon ... from the couch, you know better.

[Nikolaevich I]

I scanned the comments with my anti-sills and realized that there was no point in responding to individual comments; because. all comments can be divided into "groups"! Many "negativists" claim that modernized zurs are useless; "bayraktars" fly much higher! In part, I share doubts about the advisability of having at present a short-range air defense system up to 10 km to combat aircraft, helicopters ... (I began to "doubt" from the end of the last century ...) But maybe not everything is so simple? Adepts of the sacred Bayraktar are always talking about 8 km of flight ... I have heard, heard ... And with what load does it fly at an altitude of 8 km? With full combat load, or how? Or is 8 km where the UAV "wabche" rises ... without bonbs? Combat practice shows ... when aviators are forbidden to descend below 5 km when performing a combat mission in the event that MANPADS appear in the enemy's combat areas, then the accuracy (efficiency ) air strikes are reduced ... sometimes significantly ... In addition, it is not always "flying" weather in the combat area (!); that is, without fog, low clouds, rains ... The presence of a photocontrast seeker allows you to use the target for "heat neutral" targets ... for example, against "electric" drones, gliders, probes (balloons) ... The presence of the FK.GOS allows you to upgrade the target and up to the version with a semi-active laser seeker! The advantage of the "Strela-10 ..." air defense system is the "passivity" of the complex. It is possible to detect targets and direct missiles at them using the network-centric principle! Yes ... one of the basic principles of using short-range air defense systems should be the tactics of action against ambushes on the way of "usual" UAV flight routes!

[VyacheSeymour]

Adepts of the sacred Bayraktar are constantly talking about 8 km of flight ...

The air defense of Karabakh had systemic problems ... - well, Bayraktar is just a rumor!
From AzSMI:

Thanks to a new tactical technique during the Patriotic War, Azerbaijani pilots made more than 600 sortiesand destroyed a large amount of equipment and manpower of the enemy. It was thanks to this tactic that only one SU-25 attack aircraft was lost during the entire Patriotic War.

The effectiveness of air defense forces should be correctly assessed based on the results of work in conditions of opposition
enemy (the war in Karabakh), and not by the results of shooting on a flat as a table firing range, when you know exactly where to expect the target from, and you know that nothing will come to your soul.

[O. Bender]

Well, there is something against the UAV, maybe a kamikaze with a shell will land !?

[Dkuznecov]

"By the decision of the military-industrial complex of April 1, 1983 No.

No. 111, in 1983-1986, as part of the further development of the "Strela-10SV" type air defense system, an R&D project was carried out under the code "Kitoboy". Tests of the Kitoboy air defense missile system took place from February to December 1986 at the Donguz test site and, partially, at the Emben test site. The complex with the new 9M333 missile defense system was adopted in 1989, but not as a "Kitboy", but under the name "Strela-10M3" 9K35M3. "

Timeless classics like Colt 1911.

[Radical]

Quote: VO3A

Vinaigrette in all comments! If you send a column to attack, then it will be destroyed not only with an arrow, but also with the most promising "Shell"! Columns in modern warfare do not advance ...

They do not advance in columns in any war. In columns ... they move.
A military convoy is an organized movement / movement of military, special, motor transport equipment:
- to areas of deployment, or temporary placement
- to areas of concentration, and / or to the boundaries of deployment
- to positional areas
- for the material and technical support of units,
units and formations already fighting
- to perform other combat and other tasks.
And of course, ideally, it is desirable that during a war, or a base, during a march, they have a variety of air defense systems in their composition. Another thing is that the reality is often very far from theory. There are various objective and subjective reasons for this.

[ficus2003]

Quote: Temples

Those who slammed their caps into the minus to the first commentator will shower any UAV laughing
Or minus will put the UAV and it will fall.

As far as I understand, the main reason for the modernization is that there are a huge number of them in warehouses and many drones fly within reach, and those that are higher will shoot down other complexes with missiles at a higher price.

[Vadim_888]

It went through modernization and went through, all the good fellows, got the loot, made the patriots happy, but the fact that against drones and barrage ammunition she does not pull, to put it mildly, everyone does not care .... (((((

[Vadim237]

Against kamikaze drones of the Harop type and the like, the Arrow is absolutely useless, as well as against supersonic anti-aircraft such as Spike Helfair or the new JAGM, as well as against gliding bombs like the GBU 39, such an upgrade was relevant in the 2000s, now it is outdated physically and morally massive raid of all the little things like the above he cannot reflect.

[Old tanker]

Quote: Aviator_

- this complex does not even have an optical channel.

the upgraded missile has three modes of seeker operation: photocontrast, infrared and jamming.

A photocontrast, isn't it optical?

Photocontrast is not optical. By the way, the photocontrast and infrared modes of operation of the GOS were initially on the Strela routes. Since the 70s. Now we have added "jamming", that is, the rocket is aimed at interference. But jammers will never enter the Arrow-10's zone of delight!
Again, the usual cut of budget money.

[Nikolaevich I]

Quote: Old Tankman

Photocontrast is not sov optical

Photocontrast seeker - one of the options for optical (!) Seeker ...

Quote: Old Tankman

added "jamming", that is, the rocket is aimed at interference.

The rocket is not guided to a hindrance! The seeker distinguishes the target among the interference by the trajectory "pattern", that is, by the peculiarities of the trajectory of the target and the trap!

[Old tanker]

So the fact of the matter is that the jamming method acts when jamming by the target itself. And targets capable of carrying electronic warfare equipment will not enter the 9M333 affected area. If the aircraft interfere with the jamming, the seeker will see nothing at all. She does not have such opportunities to overcome.
All that the S-10 can in modern conditions is to shoot down some types of weapons released from carriers outside the affected area. But 4 missiles on one installation is clearly not enough. In addition, not all types of SVN are capable of capturing its GOS.

[d4rkmesa]

Come on, the Koreans have made their own "Biho-2", in fact, there are the same "Arrows", the characteristics are almost the same - only the guns have been added. Ours will not hurt either. The only thing would be to make an autonomous mode, so that not the operators were staring at the displays, but "herself" was shooting. And the crew was sitting somewhere in the trenches.

[Vadim237]

It is better to deeply modernize and release Tunguska - it is several orders of magnitude better than Arrow and the infantry, in which case it can support 30kami.