Military Review

"Coalition-SV" and XM1299 as a prospect for self-propelled artillery

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"Coalition-SV" and XM1299 as a prospect for self-propelled artillery

One of the built ACS 2S35 "Coalition-SV". Photo of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation


Leading countries continue to develop self-propelled howitzer artillery for the ground forces. As part of this direction, a promising self-propelled gun 2S35 "Coalition-SV" is being created in Russia, and in the USA, work is underway on the XM1299 project. In the foreseeable future, both these self-propelled guns will go to the troops and become massive, as a result of which the appearance of artillery will seriously change. Such changes will be possible due to a number of interesting ideas on which new projects are built.

Prospective samples


The development of the future "Coalition-SV" started in the middle of the XNUMXs. The goal of the project was to create a promising artillery complex, including the ACS itself, a new weapon, a transport-loading vehicle and ammunition. Due to new technical solutions, it was required to provide a significant increase in the range and accuracy of fire.

By the mid-tenths, the 2S35 project was brought to the construction and testing of full-fledged prototypes. One or another work on checking and fine-tuning the design continues to this day. It is known about the construction of small batches of equipment for use by the troops. A full series has yet to be launched, but is expected in the near future.

The American rival of "Coalition-SV" appeared much later. The program for the creation of the Extended Range Cannon Artillery (ERCA) long-range howitzer was launched only in 2015. Subsequently, a prototype gun in a towed configuration was manufactured and tested, and since 2018, a prototype ACS XM1299, based on a serial armored vehicle, has been tested.


"Coalition-SV" in a parade crew on Red Square. Photo by AP RF

The objectives of the ERCA project are quite simple. By reworking the barrel of existing 155-mm guns and developing new shot components, it is planned to obtain a firing range of at least 80-100 km and ensure an increase in the accuracy of fire. These tasks are being successfully solved, but the desired results are still far away, and the XM1299 is not yet ready to enter service.

Technical aspects


"Coalition-SV" is a turret-mounted ACS on a chassis tank T-90 (a variant on the Armata platform is expected in the future). A new 152 mm howitzer 2A88 was specially developed for her. This gun has a 52-caliber barrel with a developed muzzle brake and recoil devices. The gun is housed in an uninhabited turret and supplemented with automatic loaders and mechanized packs for 70 rounds. A modern fully digital fire control system has been applied.

Howitzer 2A88 uses modular-type separate loading. It can use the full range of existing 152-mm shells, and in addition to them, new samples are being created. The automatic loader provides a rate of fire of more than 10-12 rds / min; its design does not require returning the gun to its original position for reloading. The shot is fired using a microwave ignition system.


Units of an automated transport and loading machine for ACS 2S35. Photo Vitalykuzmin.net

The new weapon makes it possible to send standard unguided shells to a range of up to 40 km. A promising guided projectile is being developed, the initial speed of which will exceed 1 km / s, and the range will reach 80 km. Earlier it was reported that experimental products of this type confirm the calculated characteristics of range and accuracy. Thus, a full-fledged artillery complex with the highest characteristics will enter service.

The American XM1299 self-propelled gun in its current form, for economy and unification, is based on the serial chassis from the M109A7 with a revised manned fighting compartment. The turret has a new XM907 ERCA gun with a 58-caliber barrel. An updated LMS is also used. In its current form, ammunition is fed from the stowage manually, but the development of an automatic loader is proposed. When it appears, the rate of fire will increase from 2-3 to 8-10 rds / min.

The XM907 howitzer is capable of using existing shells and charges, but fundamentally new shots are needed to obtain maximum performance. Now the XM1113 guided rocket projectile is used in tests. Just a few days ago, during the next test firing, he managed to send it to 70 km. The XM1155 projectile with a range of at least 100 km is being developed.

General concept


Of great interest is история two promising ACS. The Russian 2S35 was created as an equal or better answer to the latest foreign samples created by the end of the nineties. When the appearance of the future "Coalition-SV" took shape and its main characteristics became known, the United States launched its ERCA program. Its result in the form of the XM1299 ACS should surpass the Russian competitor and return the lost advantages to the American army.


Experienced ACS XM1299. US Army Photos

It is easy to see that the two projects of promising self-propelled guns are based on common requirements and similar ideas. The main point in common between the two projects is the requirement to increase the firing range in comparison with existing models. This parameter should increase by 2-3 times, which is why it was necessary to develop a number of new components in both programs.

The methods for solving the problem are similar. Products 2A88 and XM907 differ from their predecessors in a longer barrel length, and are also equipped with more advanced recoil devices. It can be noted that the Russian howitzer is longer than the serial 2A64 from the 2S19 Msta-S ACS by only 5 calibers. The American XM907 is 185 clb longer than the existing M284 and M109 (ACS M19 of the main modifications).

Both self-propelled guns receive the most modern LMS developed by the two countries. Devices from their composition provide effective fire over the entire range of ranges, firing in different modes and programming guided projectiles. Simplifies preparation for firing at third-party target designation. A number of shooting preparation processes are automated.

Differences and benefits


The two considered self-propelled guns have obvious differences that can affect the fighting qualities. So, the Russian model is built on the chassis of a modern tank, and in the future it will receive a new platform. The American competitor, in turn, uses a modern version of the rather old M109 chassis. All this affects the mobility and mobility of the two self-propelled guns, and the XM1299 risks losing in such a comparison.


Components of the XM1299 complex. US Army graphics

The Russian "Coalition-SV" initially has an automatic loader providing a high rate of fire. The American XM1299 does not have such a unit, although its implementation is possible. At the same time, the rate of fire of the 2S35 will still be higher. This gives the Russian self-propelled gun obvious advantages, especially when combined with higher mobility.

In fact, the "Coalition-SV" will be able to quickly come into position, turn around, send a large number of shells to the target and go to a safe place. In an artillery duel, this difference in performance can be decisive.

However, a comparison of promising ammunition gives not so clear results. An experimental Russian projectile has already been sent at ranges of 70 and 80 km. The American XM1113 has only flown 65-70 so far. However, it is planned to improve it, and another guided munition with a range of at least 100 km is being developed.

If the United States is able to implement all its plans, and Russia does not create new shells with improved performance, then the XM1299 self-propelled gun will receive a decisive advantage. To combat it, you will have to involve not ACS or MLRS, but other fire weapons, up to combat aviationwhich has its drawbacks.


Long range test shot. US Army Photos

The difference in the current plans of the two armies looks interesting. Russian ACS 2S35 "Coalition-SV" has already passed most of the tests and brought to trial operation. No later than 2021-22 it is planned to begin deliveries of serial equipment to combat units. The American XM1299 is still undergoing tests and is not ready to be sent to the troops. The beginning of service is still referred to 2024, and the achievement of operational readiness is expected even later. Thus, there is every reason to believe that, at least for several years, the Russian army will become the world leader in the field of self-propelled artillery.

Requirements of the future


Russian and American projects for the development of promising self-propelled guns started at a long time interval, but similar requirements were imposed on them. However, the results of the two projects differ markedly for a variety of reasons. Some of these differences can be critical in real-world combat and determine the effectiveness and survivability of a combat vehicle.

With all the differences, two SPGs, 2S35 and XM1299, demonstrate the main ways of developing modern and promising self-propelled artillery. The armies of the leading countries consider it necessary to further improve guns and create new shells, due to which the range and accuracy of fire will increase. At the same time, the presence of two types of experimental equipment and their successful testing indicates the fundamental possibility of meeting such requirements. Thus, in the field of ACS, there has been a significant breakthrough, and the two leading countries will soon be able to take advantage of its results.
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  1. Lexus
    Lexus 24 December 2020 04: 45
    0
    "Development is underway" and "available in the troops" are two different things. Leave the cartoons for the "believers".
    1. seregatara1969
      seregatara1969 25 December 2020 08: 24
      +4
      Well, the Americans have a summer version of the gun. In winter, with closed hatches and without a system for blowing the barrel from powder gases, you won't shoot for a long time
    2. Vladimir Chursin
      Vladimir Chursin 10 January 2021 11: 10
      0
      Someone promised to supply 2020 airplanes and 1000 helicopters to the troops by 1500. And with the reduction of schools, release 36 pilots for them. !! And where are the planes and helicopters ??? Again, the enemies burned down the hut where they were built !!!!
  2. Proton
    Proton 24 December 2020 04: 46
    +10
    Yes, serious technique! Abruptly Msta will be.
    If ours is put into service, it will be a qualitative step forward. There would be enough resources for re-equipment.
    1. Jacket in stock
      Jacket in stock 24 December 2020 09: 54
      +5
      Quote: Proton
      There would be enough resources for re-equipment.

      And interestingly, in open sources you can find information, in order to calculate how much it costs to launch 1000 Krasnopols from a fucking cannon at 80 km and how much does it cost to conditionally launch a Tornado with a controlled head for the same 80 km?
    2. Dmitry Izmalkov
      Dmitry Izmalkov 25 February 2021 14: 37
      +3
      The main problem of our army is not the quality and advancement of equipment, but its quantity, if it is exported, say, 400 pieces, then we will have modern artillery
  3. Vasiliev S.
    Vasiliev S. 24 December 2020 04: 51
    +1
    An experimental Russian projectile has already been sent at ranges of 70 and 80 km. The American XM1113 has only flown 65-70 so far.
    Amers have a longer barrel.
    Catch up and overtake.
    And they have more experience with solid propellants.
    It's clear about the volume of production.
    1. Vladimir_2U
      Vladimir_2U 24 December 2020 05: 15
      +3
      Quote: VasilievS
      Amers have a longer barrel
      It is longer than THEIR trunk, and it was 39 klb., While Msta's trunk was 47 klb. so there is an advantage, but not decisive.
      1. Vasiliev S.
        Vasiliev S. 24 December 2020 05: 20
        0
        No-no-no - NOT about THEM!
        And about US.
        We, on the "Coalition" - 52 caliber, they have 58.
        1. Vladimir_2U
          Vladimir_2U 24 December 2020 05: 26
          +5
          Quote: VasilievS
          We, on the "Coalition" - 52 caliber, they have - 58
          Yes, I wrote:
          Quote: Vladimir_2U
          so there is an advantage, but not decisive.
          6 klb is not a decisive advantage, it is completely closed with a sample of gunpowder.
          1. Vasiliev S.
            Vasiliev S. 24 December 2020 05: 30
            -5
            So I do not understand.
            They were embarrassed in big letters.

            Something prevents amers to increase the weight?
            Like we can, but they can't?
            I don't think so.

            Their advantage has not gone anywhere.
            1. Vladimir_2U
              Vladimir_2U 24 December 2020 05: 39
              +3
              Quote: VasilievS
              Something prevents amers to increase the weight?
              Like we can, but they can't?
              Not in the know about the chamber, both in our country and in the Americans, but the introduction by the Americans of the assault rifle will definitely not allow increasing the hitch against the existing one. And with such lengths, 6 clb does not solve, even burst.
              1. Vasiliev S.
                Vasiliev S. 24 December 2020 05: 43
                -8
                So we already have a machine gun.
                By your logic, we have already reached the limit, unlike ...
                1. Vladimir_2U
                  Vladimir_2U 24 December 2020 05: 49
                  +5
                  Quote: VasilievS
                  By your logic, we have already reached the limit, unlike ...

                  Quite right, but with the already existing 3-5 times superiority in rate of fire. And I doubt that the Americans will be able to achieve parity in this area with at least some noticeable increase in charge.
                  1. Vasiliev S.
                    Vasiliev S. 24 December 2020 05: 53
                    -5
                    They can, without a doubt.
                    Because worked out decades ago, the PzH 2000 has 10 high / min. was back in 1998.
                    They will not buy it themselves.
                    1. Vladimir_2U
                      Vladimir_2U 24 December 2020 05: 59
                      +2
                      Quote: VasilievS
                      They can, without a doubt.
                      Well done! Will our designers be able to increase the barrel length by 6 clb? Do they have enough skills and abilities to solve this difficult task? Joke.
                      1. Vasiliev S.
                        Vasiliev S. 24 December 2020 06: 03
                        -9
                        They can.
                        But I strongly doubt that they can perform the chamber at the same pressure as the enemies!
                        Those. drawing is not a problem, but to do ...
                        Incidentally - MO about 80 km. didn't seem to speak (70 everywhere)
                      2. Vladimir_2U
                        Vladimir_2U 24 December 2020 06: 09
                        +7
                        Quote: VasilievS
                        But I strongly doubt that they can perform the chamber at the same pressure as the enemies!
                        Judging by the description of the gun, the "Armata" will be able to. With the same barrel length as the "Leo-2a7 +" muzzle energy by 17 percent. more.
                      3. Vasiliev S.
                        Vasiliev S. 24 December 2020 06: 22
                        -11%
                        Armata only confirms my point of view.
                        Where is she?
                        How much is produced?

                        You can draw ...
                        And even make a prototype ...

                        I repeat - the coalition has no advantage in range, the Americans will block its indicator by one or two.
                        To the topic - https://topwar.ru/164952-v-juar-ustanovili-rekord-dalnosti-strelby-stvolnoj-artillerii.html
                      4. Vladimir_2U
                        Vladimir_2U 24 December 2020 06: 40
                        +9
                        Quote: VasilievS
                        Armata only confirms my point of view.
                        Powerful logic, and you can't argue.
                        Quote: VasilievS
                        I repeat - the coalition has no advantage in range, the Americans will block its indicator by one or two.
                        Those. do you have data on the XM1299 and Coalition charging chambers, at least in liters? Share.
                      5. Vasiliev S.
                        Vasiliev S. 24 December 2020 06: 44
                        -9
                        The article on the length of the barrel is.
                        Why I have no doubt - the Americans are taking a step forward, and we are catching up ...
                        52 caliber were _ decades_ ago, in the PzH 2000, a South American wheeled, I don't remember the exact designation ...
                        And probably not only ...
                      6. Vladimir_2U
                        Vladimir_2U 24 December 2020 06: 46
                        +3
                        Quote: VasilievS
                        The article on the length of the barrel is.
                        Well, what are you rubbing about the chamber?
                        Quote: VasilievS
                        But I strongly doubt that they can perform the chamber at the same pressure as the enemies!
                      7. Vasiliev S.
                        Vasiliev S. 24 December 2020 06: 48
                        -11%
                        And I rub it because I know for sure that in metallurgy we have a serious lag.
                        So it was under the USSR and so now.

                        PS: South African, not South American
                        Screwed up
                      8. Vladimir_2U
                        Vladimir_2U 24 December 2020 06: 57
                        +5
                        Quote: VasilievS
                        And I rub it because I know for sure that in metallurgy we have a serious lag.
                        I understand that you consider the data on "Armata" a fiction?
                      9. Vasiliev S.
                        Vasiliev S. 24 December 2020 07: 00
                        -9
                        No.
                        I consider the possibility of its serial production a fiction.
                      10. Vladimir_2U
                        Vladimir_2U 24 December 2020 07: 10
                        0
                        But are the achievements of metallurgy, in particular in the parameters of the charging chamber, decisive for the impossibility of serial production of "Armata"?
                        Obviously not.
                      11. Vasiliev S.
                        Vasiliev S. 24 December 2020 07: 16
                        -8
                        Obviously they do not appear at reduced parameters, survivability or range.
                        And to fulfill the technical assignment - they are!
                        It's like with a superjet - in the project he was a super duper, but in nature he was overweight and generally unsuccessful ...
                        For such products, the foundation is needed in the form of a developed industry, design schools, etc.
                        What we do not observe in our, not imaginary reality.
                      12. Vladimir_2U
                        Vladimir_2U 24 December 2020 07: 19
                        +6
                        Quote: VasilievS
                        What we do not observe in our, not imaginary reality.
                        I don’t know about the imaginary reality, but in the current one about the "Armata" it was announced about unprecedented resistance to shells and increased power of a conventional-caliber cannon precisely due to improved steels. So what about metallurgy? Fiction?
                      13. Vasiliev S.
                        Vasiliev S. 24 December 2020 07: 22
                        -13%
                        Yes.
                        So.
                        One of the reasons why they do not.
                        PS: as an option - there will be "gold"
                        Which, in practice, will not work either.
                      14. Vladimir_2U
                        Vladimir_2U 24 December 2020 07: 27
                        +9
                        Quote: VasilievS
                        One of the reasons why they do not.
                        It's strange, they mentioned everything, and dviglo "seagull" and sighting systems with electronics in general, and funding, but about problems with steel from you for the first time, as a reason.
                      15. Vasiliev S.
                        Vasiliev S. 24 December 2020 07: 30
                        -9
                        Ha!
                        And what about the "seagull" - plastic?
                        On this I am tying, something really went completely out of topic ...
                      16. Vladimir_2U
                        Vladimir_2U 24 December 2020 08: 03
                        +7
                        Quote: VasilievS
                        And what about the "seagull" - plastic?

                        The "Seagull" turned out to be just a fiction, for the "Armata" the A-85-3 was driven.
                        Quote: VasilievS
                        On this I am tying, something really went completely out of topic ...
                        Success.
              2. neri73-r
                neri73-r 24 December 2020 12: 39
                +6
                Quote: VasilievS
                For such products, the foundation is needed in the form of a developed industry, design schools, etc.
                What we do not observe in our, not imaginary reality.

                How is MOX fuel in the states? Something our technologies failed to achieve, the plant was not mastered, the construction was mothballed ???? With their engineering and scientific personnel? Huh? laughing love
              3. A009
                A009 24 December 2020 15: 30
                +5
                You don't understand. This is different!
        2. alexmach
          alexmach 25 December 2020 18: 57
          0
          I consider the possibility of its serial production a fiction

          In the same place (according to rumors of itself) the difficulties are not at all in the artillery unit ...
  4. Boris Chernikov
    Boris Chernikov 24 December 2020 14: 39
    +5
    it's a pity that you can't swear here .. ours are ALREADY shooting at 80 km, and the Americans only promise .. that is the difference .. but you again lick the 5th point with them shouting about "haha, Russians are catching up again" ..
  5. neri73-r
    neri73-r 24 December 2020 12: 37
    +5
    Quote: VasilievS
    the Americans will block its indicator by one or two.

    We take our word for it, just like with hypersound !!! wassat With MOX fuel and much more !!! Hegemon, well, and of course, they take your word for it !!! Gentlemen. wassat tongue
  6. Boris Chernikov
    Boris Chernikov 24 December 2020 14: 38
    +8
    funny goes .. Americans always do, But even if ours said that they have already done, you still don’t believe .. you have an American flag hanging in the toilet?
  7. Evil Booth
    Evil Booth 25 December 2020 08: 16
    0
    not in but on am right from
    the main thing should not seem to you that it is here I believe there is disbelief there is a paid CIA project, otherwise you never know. lol
  8. Boris Chernikov
    Boris Chernikov 25 December 2020 10: 57
    -3
    hi a mail booth with FBI agents has already left for you
  9. Evil Booth
    Evil Booth 25 December 2020 11: 37
    0
    soldier I have a googol from chrome, any request while the antivirus is on, the server responds stably, unexpectedly disconnected the connection, again the antivirus shows stable outgoing traffic, although nothing is included as many megabytes as the rod. so yes left. but again I met a house with jokes fool perhaps for the last time.
  10. Photon
    Photon 25 December 2020 15: 15
    +2
    Something I observe a change in the balance of power on the site. Earlier it seemed to me pro-Russian. And now the opposite. At least in the comments. True, I myself am far from thinking that everything is in order in the Russian Federation. But, the joy of many commentators at the mention of our problems, gives rise to the desire to see them in sight
  11. Boris Chernikov
    Boris Chernikov 25 December 2020 15: 25
    +2
    tse has long been the norm on topvar .. To say something good about Russia, get a pack of Minuses, and write "co-co-co-co-co-co in Russia, everything is bad, holy West." topvar "begin to actively tell that everything is bad, that it was worse and it became vaapsche.
  12. Ugochaves
    Ugochaves 26 December 2020 05: 29
    0
    His panties from the ento flag are sewn lol
  • garri-lin
    garri-lin 24 December 2020 07: 42
    -3
    Well, like 6 calibers is more than 10 percent. Decides and quite strongly.
    1. Mountain shooter
      Mountain shooter 24 December 2020 09: 44
      +8
      Quote: garri-lin
      Well, like 6 calibers is more than 10 percent. Decides and quite strongly

      There, the dependence is nonlinear. The longer the barrel, the less the effect of added length. The pressure in the barrel is dropping, you know ... wassat
      1. garri-lin
        garri-lin 24 December 2020 12: 40
        0
        Whether the pressure falls or does not fall depends not on the length of the barrel but on the MZ. Moreover, in the future, controlled combustion of MW. It is clear that plus 10 percent of the barrel length is not plus 10 percent of the maximum range. Ceteris paribus. But the difference is still significant.
        1. Mountain shooter
          Mountain shooter 24 December 2020 14: 04
          +4
          Quote: garri-lin
          The pressure drops or does not fall depends not on the length of the barrel but on the MZ. Moreover, in the future, the controlled combustion of MW

          The pressure drops because the propellant gases in the barrel expand as the projectile moves. And if you slow down the combustion, the speed will drop. There are also problems with survivability when pressure rises. Thermochemical canal erosion ...
          1. garri-lin
            garri-lin 24 December 2020 18: 50
            +2
            The intensity of combustion of MW should not be slowed down, but rather accelerated as the projectile moves along the barrel. This can be done by heating the hot charge with microwave radiation. Or make the charge multi-layer. So that each subsequent layer burns more intensely. But the problems with survivability are much more difficult to solve. And many times more expensive.
        2. Bad_gr
          Bad_gr 24 December 2020 20: 41
          +3
          Quote: garri-lin
          Well, like 6 calibers is more than 10 percent. Decides and quite strongly.

          Quote: Mountain Shooter
          There, the dependence is nonlinear. The longer the barrel, the less the effect of added length.
          1. garri-lin
            garri-lin 24 December 2020 22: 02
            0
            Is this relevant for absolutely all systems?
          2. Bad_gr
            Bad_gr 25 December 2020 00: 34
            +3
            Quote: garri-lin
            Is this relevant for absolutely all systems?

            For the overwhelming majority, that's right. It's the same with rifles.
            For example a machine
            AK-74U Barrel length, mm ------------- 206,5
            Bullet muzzle velocity, m / s ---- 725-750 [2]
            AK-74 Barrel length, mm --------------- 372
            Bullet muzzle velocity, m / s ------- 910 [2]
            That is, the barrel length is almost 2 times longer, and the bullet speed is 1 / 6th higher.

            During the war, the Germans had a cannon that had several chambers along the entire length of the barrel and the gunpowder in them was ignited sequentially as the projectile passed. I don't remember the name of the gun, but it's exotic. Basically as pictured above.

            But in solid-propellant rockets it happens that in different sections of the powder filling the gunpowder burns at different speeds (predicted in advance)
          3. garri-lin
            garri-lin 25 December 2020 16: 06
            0
            Well, in principle, this is optimal. The pressure and hence the acceleration are uniform. The accuracy is higher. The barrel survivability is higher.
          4. Passing
            Passing 27 February 2021 10: 02
            0
            Quote: Bad_gr
            That is, the barrel length is almost 2 times longer, and the bullet speed is 1 / 6th higher.

            It is incorrect, for an artillery system, to assess the effect of the barrel length in terms of speed, correctly in terms of increasing the theoretical range. Distance from angle formula: x = v ^ 2 * sin (2 * a) / g. Those. range depends on the square of the speed. Those. in the case of the AK-74, the ballistic range is increased by 50%. In theory, in a vacuum, of course. And this is far from a trifle.
            Those. a difference of 5 calibers for the considered ACS can result in several kilometers of range, and given the indisputable superiority of the Americans in solid rocket fuel (for ARS), and the probable superiority in barrel technology (balance of max pressure and resource), this can all result in a difference of ten another kilometers of our lagging distance.
    2. Boris Chernikov
      Boris Chernikov 25 December 2020 11: 48
      -5
      provided that they exactly ensured the increase in the range ... there is a suspicion that the range is provided by ultralight projectiles, and if they used the old developments ... then there is generally a rocket-projectile with a horse price
      1. garri-lin
        garri-lin 25 December 2020 16: 05
        -1
        We are talking about the nonlinearity of the barrel gain and range increase. There are other methods. But they all go to the detriment of power.
      2. Boris Chernikov
        Boris Chernikov 25 December 2020 17: 04
        -4
        good conversation, I just explained how the Americans actually achieved such range indicators
      3. garri-lin
        garri-lin 25 December 2020 18: 09
        -1
        They are also working in this direction in Russia. They just advertise less.
  • Alex_You
    Alex_You 24 December 2020 05: 19
    +6
    That will shoot, shoot, they say they say expensive, change the number in the index of the paladin, which he is like A6, and leave it in service. They had a million of these projects to replace the paladin, although they were closed due to the collapse of the USSR.
    1. Nirag013
      Nirag013 24 December 2020 20: 08
      +1
      The article indicates that the M109A7 is taken as a basis. And so - yes, the amers had many projects to replace the long-suffering Palladin. But it didn't work out!
  • Doccor18
    Doccor18 24 December 2020 09: 27
    +2
    I have no doubt that the 2C35 will be brought to mind. But with the release and saturation of this system of troops - there are doubts. There are hundreds of ACS Akatsia and Msta in the Russian Army. How much money and time will it take for our military-industrial complex to transfer artillery to a new, modern level - an equation with many unknowns ...
    1. Glory1974
      Glory1974 24 December 2020 11: 16
      +4
      But with the release and saturation of this system of troops - there are doubts. There are hundreds of ACS Akatsia and Msta in the Russian Army. How much money and time will it take for our military-industrial complex to transfer artillery to a new, modern level

      "Coalitsy" will arm the regiments of the Supreme Command's reserve, the rest will be transferred to the levels of the army-division-brigade. "Msta" and others will be enough for now. if modern means of reconnaissance and target designation are introduced, many tasks will become more effective. A small number of "Coalitions" will be used for special tasks. Enough for a regional conflict.
      1. Doccor18
        Doccor18 24 December 2020 12: 39
        0
        hi
        Enough for a regional conflict.

        Where will this conflict be? And which one, local, regional, or will it grow into something more?
        Will the "VGK reserve regiments" be in time ...
        ... the rest will be transferred to the army-division-brigade levels

        The question is, how much and when ..?
        "Msta" and others will be enough for now.

        It will depend on the level of the enemy ...
      2. Boris Chernikov
        Boris Chernikov 24 December 2020 14: 42
        -5
        gradual rotation will be carried out: first the Reserve, then separate artillery brigades and then art battalions, etc., etc.
      3. d4rkmesa
        d4rkmesa 25 December 2020 09: 02
        +2
        Remind me, which shelves are now referred to as the "WGC reserve"?
        1. Glory1974
          Glory1974 25 December 2020 10: 22
          0
          which shelves now belong to the "WGC reserve"

          eg shelves of self-propelled mortars "Tulip"
          1. d4rkmesa
            d4rkmesa 25 December 2020 10: 49
            +2
            Now it's all art. brigades of army subordination, if Wikipedia is not lying.
            1. Glory1974
              Glory1974 28 December 2020 13: 48
              0
              Wikipedia is lying unambiguously.
  • Boris Chernikov
    Boris Chernikov 24 December 2020 14: 35
    -3
    and what have they been fussing about for so many years?
  • alexmach
    alexmach 25 December 2020 19: 00
    0
    Amers have a longer barrel.

    Is this a problem? Carnations and especially Acacia, which have not yet been changed for anything, is a problem.
  • Sahalinets
    Sahalinets 24 December 2020 05: 24
    +6
    For some reason, the author did not mention three key problems:
    1. Accuracy of fire.
    2. Intelligence targets.
    3. Correction.
    Without this, we will shoot into the white light as a pretty penny, albeit 80 km away.
  • riwas
    riwas 24 December 2020 05: 30
    +5
    Modern self-propelled guns are inconceivable without UAV fire spotters and ground robots. In the United States, they successfully tested a combination of self-propelled guns and a ground-based spotting robot against a tank.
    https://ria.ru/20200930/armiya-1577975167.html
    1. Viktor Sergeev
      Viktor Sergeev 24 December 2020 07: 48
      -2
      That is, it is impossible to immediately hit the tank with the UAV? Didn't you think that the tanks are also covered by air defense and electronic warfare? For a long time, the spotter flies over a strong enemy and, most importantly, will the signal that will be jammed pass? By the way, if the tank is moving, no projectile will hit it, unless, of course, an engine is built into it like in an ATGM, but then the projectile will become a caliber of 300 mm.
      1. Glory1974
        Glory1974 24 December 2020 11: 11
        +2
        By the way, if the tank is moving, no shell will hit it,

        Krasnopol will hit. And for the price, of course, it is more expensive than a conventional projectile, but cheaper than an ATGM.
        1. Viktor Sergeev
          Viktor Sergeev 24 December 2020 12: 31
          +1
          Krasnopol needs to be illuminated with a laser, there is no homing system, plus if the target moves quickly enough, then most likely it will not hit, there will not be enough maneuverability.
        2. Jacket in stock
          Jacket in stock 25 December 2020 05: 50
          +3
          Quote: glory1974
          Krasnopol will hit. And for the price, of course, it is more expensive than a conventional projectile, but cheaper than an ATGM.

          Krasnopol, they write, costs 70000 usd, Cornet about 20000 usd.

          If you take an ATGM with a "head", then of course it will be more expensive, but in Krasnopol there is no "head" either.
          In order for Krasnopol to get somewhere, it is necessary that three suicide fighters sit nearby and illuminate, which once again raises doubts about the need for shooting at 100 km.
          1. d4rkmesa
            d4rkmesa 25 December 2020 09: 07
            +1
            Well, what are the "death row" now? The UAVs were canceled or not shown, which is equivalent for someone to the fact that they are not there? ) In fact, now the use of drones has no alternative.
            1. Jacket in stock
              Jacket in stock 25 December 2020 09: 23
              +2
              Quote: d4rkmesa
              Well, what are the "death row" now?

              And in Syria, who were awarded posthumously?
              It is a ground-based wearable sighting system that comes with Krasnopol as standard.
              1. d4rkmesa
                d4rkmesa 25 December 2020 10: 07
                +1
                To whom were the awards given, do you have information, what exactly are you talking about this complex? But, even so. In the case of the "Coalition", it was flashed in the news that the shells there will be modified and with different target designation options. Maybe they will declassify for some anniversary.
          2. Siberian54
            Siberian54 16 February 2021 11: 31
            0
            Throw in a tactical YAZU that's a necessity ...
  • Odysseus
    Odysseus 24 December 2020 06: 00
    +4
    The coalition is a really important and necessary project. The experience of all regional wars in recent times has shown that artillery (and especially self-propelled guns) still play a decisive role in war.
    But, of course, they are needed in a modern form - in conjunction with UAVs and modern information systems for battle control and reconnaissance systems.
    As for the hardware, the first version of the Msta (which forms the basis of the self-propelled gun fleet) is, of course, outdated. I'm not talking about Acacia.
    True, there is a question, which is more efficient in terms of price / quality / capabilities - the modernization of the Msta or the production of a new ACS? And can we produce a new ACS in more than a couple of parade regiments.
    1. Jacket in stock
      Jacket in stock 24 December 2020 08: 35
      0
      Quote: Odyssey
      are needed in a modern form - in conjunction with UAVs and modern information systems for battle control, and reconnaissance systems.

      But isn't it easier to hang a couple of missiles on this very UAV, which are 200 times cheaper than Excalibur, and you won't need a gun.
      Arrived, saw, shot, that's it, the calculation is over.
    2. DrEng527
      DrEng527 24 December 2020 16: 58
      +1
      Quote: Odyssey
      And can we produce a new ACS in more than a couple of parade regiments.

      and thus complicate the logistics ... request
  • Viktor Sergeev
    Viktor Sergeev 24 December 2020 07: 44
    +9
    Well, what the hell is the fight against SPGs. With a firing range of 80 km. the projectile will fly for one and a half minutes, that is, the self-propelled guns will release 15 shells before the first hits the target. The return projectiles must fly the same amount, that is, the ACS has 3 minutes to return. When the response arrives, the Coalition will not be in place for a couple of minutes. To combat self-propelled guns, only aircraft are suitable, including drones and MLRS with homing anti-tank missiles, unless of course the artillerymen are suckers and think with their heads. Why should an ACS shoot at a distance of 100 km. if in this case the cost of the projectile approaches the cost of the rocket, since in fact it is?
  • Jacket in stock
    Jacket in stock 24 December 2020 07: 52
    +1
    But it’s interesting, if we calculate the price of a shot and the whole cycle, what would be cheaper, a huge cannon that shoots 100 km with small rockets, or a rail that shoots the same rockets, well, even a little more, but simpler and cheaper?
    IMHO the advantage of cannon artillery is that it shoots with cheap cast iron. And not only the Tornado, but also the Grad, oh, sorry, Tornado, has long been able to zafigachit a guided projectile.
    1. vvvjak
      vvvjak 24 December 2020 08: 28
      +4
      Quote: Jacket in stock
      But it’s interesting, if we calculate the price of a shot and the whole cycle, what would be cheaper, a huge cannon that shoots 100 km with small rockets, or a rail that shoots the same rockets, well, even a little more, but simpler and cheaper?

      During tests of the American howitzer at a distance of 70 km, only the 3rd Excalibur shell hit the target (one was blown off by the wind, the electronic filling of the other failed). As a result, about $ 0,5 mil to hit one target.
  • Hermit21
    Hermit21 24 December 2020 10: 45
    -1
    "Koala" ALREADY shoots at 80 and will shoot even further. The rate of fire is also not in favor of the XM1299. How long do they promise to bring in 2023 or 2024, up to 10 v / m? This is level 2S19M1, no more
  • Xenofont
    Xenofont 24 December 2020 15: 39
    0
    Curiously, what do ours use in record-breaking shells as an engine? A bottom gasifier, a jet engine or something?
  • 501Legion
    501Legion 24 December 2020 16: 14
    0
    the mattress covers are so cool that they still cannot enter the automatic loader
    1. Ugochaves
      Ugochaves 26 December 2020 05: 42
      -1
      They have a lot of blacks ...
  • DrEng527
    DrEng527 24 December 2020 16: 55
    +3
    When reading, questions arise from the field of rationality:
    1) how much is it reasonable to shoot at 100 km from a gun - after all, an active projectile reduces the mass of the explosive, in addition, the spread increases? But the power of the projectile is the main thing ... Isn't it easier to use missiles or MLRS? request
    2) The coalition is good, but the 2S19M2 has a rate of fire of 10 rpm - is the creation of a new system justified? Both tactically and military-economically? Or do you just need to spend money? hi
  • Evil Booth
    Evil Booth 25 December 2020 08: 21
    -4
    Well, in fact, and not theoretically, the artillery of the United States, laughing through tears that the amount is good. while they have a base Nona they have nothing while we have tanks and BMPs with 100 + mm they have 25 mm, there are relics of art and in the sau we have a self-propelled many pieces of hyacinths for 50 km and other tulips they have .. how is it on 14 km of ancient such a barn in large quantities. the same for the RSO. even more so. and where does the Swedish one and a half guns or the Korean both two? a German in Afghani fired at 40 + km chtoli refusal +/- kilometer. bully
  • CastroRuiz
    CastroRuiz 25 December 2020 15: 20
    +1
    Gaubicu 2A88 do 58 kal. dovodit i novie snariadi k ney. I budet tozhe 100 km.
  • Maksim_ok
    Maksim_ok 29 December 2020 13: 52
    +1
    "These tasks are being successfully accomplished, but the desired results are still far away, and the XM1299 is not yet ready to enter service."

    Ale, this experienced self-propelled gun on the last tests that took place on December 19 with a direct hit with a projectile, Excalibur, hit a target (PU OTR) at a distance of 70 km ... "but they are being created. There is little doubt that serial production could be rolled out from fiscal 58.

    And for the Coalition they are doing something else in the sense of new ammunition, but this campaign is only on paper.

    "An experimental Russian projectile has already been sent at a distance of 70 and 80 km."

    Oh really? where are the facts confirming this achievement?

    "Thus, there is every reason to believe that, at least for several years, the Russian army will become the world leader in the field of self-propelled artillery."

    Guys. Do you believe in it yourself? Where is the domestic "Excalibur"? (The Yankees have already produced 10 thousand of them, 1500 were used in battle) Where is a serial kit like the PGK from the ATK campaign? What allows you to turn an ordinary unguided projectile into a high-precision one? Where is the video, photos in general, any evidence of the Coalition shooting at 80 km?
    As for the mobility, it is unlikely that these ACS will differ in this, especially since the XM1299 will use a modified chassis, but with the AZ, it is still not clear, theoretically, the Coalition is superior, since there is AZ, but you need to understand that in At the maximum rate, the barrel of any ACS needs cooling, and then the rate drops sharply and, due to the lack of modern guided projectiles, the American one simply needs fewer projectiles to complete a combat mission, which means the rate of fire is not so critical for it.
    And for the Russian, the absence of modern long-range guided projectiles is critical (we will not consider the "Krasnopol" modern, it needs external illumination)
    1. Gust
      Gust 28 January 2021 10: 49
      0
      "Ale, this experienced self-propelled gun in the last tests that took place on December 19 with a direct hit with a projectile, Excalibur, hit the target (PU OTR) at a distance of 70 km ... shots "but they are being created. There is little doubt that serial production could be rolled out from fiscal 58."
      Ale, where is the evidence? Where is the telemetry data, where are the proofs ??
      They already produced their Crusader in series, and then there was also "little doubt".
  • petroff
    petroff 5 January 2021 18: 06
    0
    Ummm. Newest manual loading.
    Well ...
  • misti1973
    misti1973 7 January 2021 22: 39
    0
    Now, if in essence, Carnations and Acacia are in service :) And this is squalor for the present time! There is a wonderful artillery system Coast, but for some reason only 40 pieces (if my memory serves me). Why not develop on the basis of this system, why not increase the number of such systems? Instead, we are "fed breakfast" about the Coalition, which has not been "finished" for 10 years! For such a time, any artillery system can be brought to mind! If there is a desire, of course, what is the point of training in range if you need to practice in precision? If they shoot in the same way as tanks in the Army 2020, then this is an obvious lack of modern high-precision ammunition, and this rests primarily in the absence of its own element base! And the third-generation ATGMs are absent for this very reason, and the air-defense missile systems for the internal compartments of the SU-57 too!
  • Pavel Kulikov
    Pavel Kulikov 7 February 2021 19: 52
    0
    I used to think that B in CB means something like "vertical" arrangement of barrels. But the trunk became one, but the index remained. Could it be Ground Forces? But then there was also a naval option? Why could it be developed? What do the experts think?
    As for entering the troops, adoption, etc. - with this and in the Soviet Army there was complete confusion. To understand what is happening, it is worth looking at the production of barrels, as it was with the Armata.
    It is definitely not worth comparing this with an American woman, they have pure research and development work so far - they have done, shot, analyzed, remade and so on in a circle. To test the barrel-ammunition bundle, the rate of fire is not needed.
  • Bogatyrev
    Bogatyrev 21 February 2021 18: 13
    0
    The West, as always, shoots from afar, slowly and accurately, while we shoot from medium distances, quickly and a lot.
  • VLADIMIR VLADIVOSTOK
    VLADIMIR VLADIVOSTOK Yesterday, 04: 08
    0
    Americans lie all the time! How can you compare what they "said"? The Americans have already flown to the moon! And it's stupid to compare their lies! Even if it is true, then they are so lying, then they have no faith! The Americans did not bring a scientific breakthrough to the world! It is a fact ! If someone's development was stolen without being engaged in industrial espionage! The Americans have only recently declared that they do not understand the flight of a projectile over 80 km! Let them first create an analogue of MI-26! Balabols! And who checked the accuracy of the flight of the projectile! Pentagon! And we say cartoons! This is their lie! Urya has nothing to do with patriotism! They just have false propaganda! Even if he eats. A normal sample of technology, then no one believes them with their lies!