Military Review

With a machine gun against a tank. Soviet engineers about the 1942 German armor

89

The StuG III was the only vehicle that impressed the TsNII-48 engineers in 1941-1942. Source: wikipedia.org


Teutonic armor


By the beginning of 1942, the Red Army had accumulated a sufficient amount of captured equipment to organize a full-scale research by scientists and military engineers. Throughout the year, under the guidance of specialists from TsNII-48, the leading institute dealing with armor in the USSR, enemy equipment was thoroughly studied. First, to create guidelines for the fight against fascist tanksand secondly, to assess the comparative level of development of domestic and enemy metallurgy and engineering. Test participants hoped to pick up new ideas for their own industry during the work.

The objects of research were the most common armored vehicles for their time: TI, T-IA, T-II tanks, two T-IIIs with a 50-mm KwK 38 cannon and a 37-mm KwK L / 45 cannon. In 1942, the term "self-propelled artillery mount" was not yet generally accepted, therefore the studied StuG III Ausf.C / D was called "the reckless" Artshturm "medium tank with a 75-mm cannon. Interestingly, the T-IV Ausf.F with a short-barreled 75mm cannon turned out to be a heavy tank according to the Soviet classification! Obviously, TsNII-48 considered that a German tank weighing 24 tons was fully classified as heavy, since the Germans simply did not have a larger armored vehicle at that time. More precisely, the Armored Institute did not know about heavy German tanks, but more about that later.


A captured flamethrower tank at the Kubinka training ground. Source: warspot.ru

In the trophy collection of TsNII-48 there was also a rare flamethrower Flammpanzer II Flamingo, which fell into the hands of the Red Army in 1941 near Smolensk. The vehicle fought as part of the 3rd tank group of the 101st flamethrower tank battalion. The flamethrower tank was of an original design, specially adapted for the installation of containers with compressed air and fire mixture. The fire mixture was ignited with acetylene and an electric burner. The pressure in the air cylinders reached 150 atmospheres, which made it possible to throw burning jets from two cannons at 40-50 meters. The light 12-ton flamethrower tank did not make much of an impression on the Soviet engineers, and they did not find any reason to borrow. The most original was the chassis of the Flammpanzer II Flamingo, about which they wrote:

The chassis of the flamethrower tank in terms of its design is similar to the chassis of the semi-tracked German tractors, but somewhat simplified for production: the pins of the tracks of the auto-half-track tractors rotate on needle bearings, and the tracks have rubber pads, while the fingers of the flamethrower tank are seated tightly on the threads and there are no rubber pads.


Captured Pz.Kpfw. 38 (t), or in Czech LT vz. 38, from the 20th Panzer Division, September 1941. Source: warspot.ru

Among the studied machines were twice captured Czechoslovakian LT vz. 35 and LT vz. 38, the last of which was called the long "Prague-TNGS-38T" in the reports. The R35 infantry tank and the Somua S35 medium tank represented French equipment that had ended up in the Soviet rear for study by the Armored Institute. The last two tanks received a detailed commentary:

The R35 and Somua S35 are a clear illustration of the French desire to simplify tank production as much as possible and create all the prerequisites for ensuring the mass production of tanks. But widely (wider than all other countries) using armor casting in tank building, they could not achieve its high quality.

Don't wait for thick-armored tanks


At the end of 1942, in the reports of TsNII-48 engineers, an almost condescending attitude towards the protection of German tanks sounds. In short, the fascist armor turned out to be thin and unable to withstand domestic 76-mm shells. Good visibility from enemy tanks has been interestingly interpreted. A large number of observation devices, it turns out, not only increases the crew's awareness of what is happening around, but also increases the tank's vulnerability to incendiary mixtures and small machine gun fire. Here's a quote that is discouraging:

If we consider that when firing at viewing devices there is also a significant likelihood of hitting the tank's armament and jamming ball mounts and weapon masks, it becomes obvious that such a seemingly weak anti-tank weapon as small arms and machine gun fire can still be quite effective when used against German tanks, including even medium and heavy ones.

In case, nevertheless, the machine gun against the T-III and T-IV would not have been effective, the TsNII-48 offered to use bottles with Molotov cocktails. For this, the German tanks had everything - developed air intakes and an abundance of viewing slots.

The Germans tried to solve the problem of resistance to the T-34 and KV guns by simply shielding the hull with armor plates. The frontal parts of all tanks were necessarily shielded, which, according to TsNII-48, gives out strictly offensive weapon - the sides and stern of German vehicles remained poorly protected.

With a machine gun against a tank. Soviet engineers about the 1942 German armor

A Frenchman in German service. Source: waralbum.ru

Before revealing the main thesis of the first part of the report of the Armored Institute, it is worth telling who composed this work. Scientific editing was carried out by Doctor of Technical Sciences, Professor Andrey Sergeevich Zavyalov, founder of TsNII-48. The report was based on the work of at least six engineers of the institute. The report was signed by the chief engineer of TsNII-48 Levin E. E. That is, the authors are real professionals in their field and should be well versed in their field. Here is the forecast of engineers regarding the further development of the German armored industry without adjustments:

During the war, one can expect the enemy to have new models of tanks, although the Germans, apparently, in every possible way avoid production complications associated with the transfer of industry to new models and affecting the mass production of weapons. If such new samples appear, then it is unlikely that we will meet in them with the fact of a significant thickening of the armor. Most likely, in accordance with the entire course of development of types of German tanks, one should expect an increase in tank artillery, on the one hand, and an increase in the cross-country ability of tanks in off-road conditions and heavy snow cover, on the other hand.

The report was signed on December 24, 1942, when, we recall, the Soviet troops had already managed to collide with the newest German "Tiger". In the Main Armored Directorate of the Red Army, they officially learned about the real heavy tanks of the Wehrmacht in early November 1942 from British diplomats. This raises a couple of questions. Firstly, was it possible that TsNII-48 was not aware of the situation at the front and had no connection with the GABTU? And, secondly, why, in response to the "cardboardness" of the Teutonic armor (as they say in the "Armored Institute"), German engineers suddenly have to increase the armament and mobility of tanks? Be that as it may, Soviet tank formations were not qualitatively ready to confront thick-armored German vehicles until 1944.

Armor chemistry


Screening in the early years of the war for the Germans was the only salvation in front of Soviet artillery and tanks. First of all, the frontal plates, placed closer to the vertical position, were subjected to such protection, and secondly, the upper part of the sides and stern. The Germans used both homogeneous and cemented armor for shielding. And on one of the Czechoslovakian LT vz. 38 tanks, engineers immediately discovered three-layer shielding of 15 mm sheets.

At the same time, according to the testers, the Germans were doing badly with the fastening of the armored screens - the steel sheets were torn off the hull after one or two hits. In general, TsNII-48 was skeptical about the shielding of tanks at the time of the report, assuring that it was easier and more profitable to simply weld on additional armor without leaving an "air gap". At the same time, since 1941, the Armored Institute has been working on shielding the T-34 armor. At the Krasnoye Sormovo plant, some of the tanks were even produced with similar armor.

The real interest of the testers was aroused by the "Artshturm" self-propelled gun or the StuG III Ausf.C / D, which turned out to be a relatively simple machine to manufacture, and even equipped with a powerful weapon. On the battlefield, such a "reckless tank" with the proper level of mobility lost a little in tactical terms in comparison with the classic tank.


An example of shielding a German T-III. Stalingrad, 1942. Source: waralbum.ru

Now about German tank chemistry. As expected, the main alloying element was chromium, which enemy steelmakers added to the armor in the range of 1-2,5%. Molybdenum (0,2-0,6%) was next in importance, followed by silicon and nickel (1-2%). Manganese, which is widely used as an alloying additive in Soviet armor, is not widely used in captured steel. Only in chromium-molybdenum armor with a low content of chromium, vanadium and molybdenum could a relatively high proportion of manganese be noted - up to 0,8%. The Germans added manganese to such a steel recipe only for the desire to ensure the hardenability of armor to a thickness of 20-40 mm with a simultaneous low content of chromium and molybdenum. Among the reasons for saving manganese was the chronic shortage of this metal in Germany, as well as the desire to avoid cracking on tank hulls during welding.

Metallurgists of TsNII-48 also noted a high carbon content in German armor - up to 0,5%. In Soviet tank armor, the proportion of this element varied from 0,27% to 0,35%. What did carbon affect? First of all, the hardness of steel - in German cars it was much higher than that of the T-34, and even more so than that of the KV. At the same time, a high carbon content significantly increases the likelihood of cracking during welding, but the Germans surprisingly managed to avoid this (including due to the small fraction of manganese). But domestic thirty-fours for a very long time could not get rid of dangerous cracks on the case.

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  1. Vladimir_2U
    Vladimir_2U 26 December 2020 04: 32
    +22
    the fingers of the flamethrower tank are set tightly on the thread and there are no rubber pads.
    Well, it is logical, you will have to go through your own fire mixture.

    significant likelihood of hitting the tank's armament and jamming ball mounts and weapon masks
    The author will be surprised, but in much later manuals on the fight against tanks, rifle and machine gun fire is considered effective against observation devices, and heavy machine guns are DIRECTLY recommended to hit the gun barrels.
    Firstly, was it possible that TsNII-48 was not aware of the situation at the front and had no connection with the GABTU?
    The brutal drain of analysts, yes, then yes.

    Thank you for the article.
    1. Mik13
      Mik13 26 December 2020 09: 46
      +18
      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      The author will be surprised, but in much later manuals on the fight against tanks, rifle and machine gun fire is considered effective against observation devices, and heavy machine guns are DIRECTLY recommended to hit the gun barrels.

      I saw a description of the case when, during the hostilities in the Donbass, the T-64 of the Armed Forces of Ukraine wandered into someone else's checkpoint and was fired upon by crossfire from two 12.7 machine guns (the narrator used the phrase "knocked out of the cliffs"). As a result of the shelling, the crew left the tank and was taken prisoner, the tank was damaged. When posting the trophy, it turned out that the observation devices were completely inoperative.

      So even now the machine gun is not a friend at all, and not even a friend.
      1. Kot_Kuzya
        Kot_Kuzya 26 December 2020 10: 09
        -8
        Sumerians are so Sumerians laughing ... Fighters from them like a bullet from guana. No wonder the LPR militias beat the Ukronazis in the tail and in the mane. In a normal army, the tank alone does not move anywhere, the infantry goes in front of it and prompts the path and actions.
        1. Mik13
          Mik13 26 December 2020 21: 27
          +16
          Quote: Kot_Kuzya
          The Sumerians are such laughing Sumerians. Fighters from them like a bullet from guana. It was not without reason that the LPR militias beat the Ukronazis in the tail and in the mane.
          I don’t want to disappoint you, but ... To my great regret, there are also Russians on the other side. And they are fighting like Russians. That is, in the general mass - not bad.

          Quote: Kot_Kuzya
          In a normal army, a tank alone does not move anywhere, in front of it is the infantry and prompts the path and actions.
          This happens all the time. Civil war, the density of the formation of troops in the front line is several times lower than the normative ones, there is no continuous line of contact. Getting lost in an unfamiliar area is easy and effortless. A couple of years ago there was a case when our KAMAZ with a BC and with an ichtamnet in the rank of major (rear service) also stopped by the neighbors. The major then told the appearance and passwords in the tame TV ...
          So anything happens.
          1. The comment was deleted.
            1. Most polite
              Most polite 27 December 2020 14: 44
              +8
              What kind of Nazi nonsense ?? Kozhedub, Lyudmila Pavlichenko, Sidor Kovpak, etc., etc. , they are all Ukrainians by nationality !!
              1. Kot_Kuzya
                Kot_Kuzya 27 December 2020 15: 31
                +2
                Lyudmila is Russian, her maiden name is Belova. Kozhedub and Kovpak are also Russians. Or are all of them with Ukrainian names Ukrainians for you? Poroshenko and Tymoshenko are Ukrainians? Is Avakov Russian? Are Zelensky and Kolomoisky Poles? Is Yanukovych a Belarusian?
                1. Most polite
                  Most polite 29 December 2020 20: 53
                  0
                  Yes, let Pavlichenko Russian or Kovpak Gypsies, but in the memory of the people they were always considered Ukrainians, especially in addition to the above, there were other thousands, hundreds of thousands of unknown Ukrainian heroes. They died on the fronts of the Second World War, several million, and your vile and Nazi division into cultural and savages is not which will not lead to good, because this was already in our History. I remember that supporters of such racial purity were then hung up in the squares to dry. ...
                  1. gsev
                    gsev 20 March 2021 20: 03
                    0
                    Quote: Most polite
                    Yes, let Pavlichenko Russian or Kovpak gypsies, but in the memory of the people they were always considered Ukrainians,

                    Pavlichenko left interesting memories. I recommend everyone to find and read. I dare not comment on them, she spoke for herself better than anyone else. It was a whole, original personality. But it seems to me that in modern Ukraine they try to keep silent about many important aspects of its fate, views and thoughts.
              2. EvilLion
                EvilLion 27 January 2021 08: 14
                0
                Don't insult Russian soldiers with this word.
            2. zenion
              zenion 27 December 2020 20: 16
              +4
              Cat_Kuzya (Kuzma Kuzmich). What's true is true. The Ukrainians have a very amazing mandate, envy and a desire to spoil their neighbors. Pidpalyu khatu, shed near the susid shed. It also happens that chickens graze in their garden, so they threw poisoned grains, or pieces of bread, over the fence, so that they would poison the chickens of a neighbor.
            3. www3
              www3 29 December 2020 23: 37
              -4
              the main sign of the Russian "patriot", he constantly convinces himself that he is better than the Ukrainian Bandera)
          2. Split
            Split 27 December 2020 13: 28
            +8
            Do you think Vlasov is also Russian? It is not nationality that makes a person Russian. For me, my friends, one Kazakh, the other half Uzbek - I can call them Russians, because they will give odds to any "Russian"
          3. EvilLion
            EvilLion 27 January 2021 08: 13
            0
            If these Russians call themselves dill, then they are no longer Russians and act like dill.
          4. 89268170588
            89268170588 14 February 2021 19: 11
            0
            They go to serve in the corners, and coarse-toothed old women carry them to the corners. Only a "sensible major" could accompany Kamaz from the BC.
      2. Kostya Lavinyukov
        Kostya Lavinyukov 26 December 2020 12: 43
        +6
        If they did not see someone else's checkpoint, then perhaps the devices were not working initially?
        1. Mik13
          Mik13 26 December 2020 21: 29
          +8
          Quote: Kostya Lavinyukov
          If they did not see someone else's checkpoint, then perhaps the devices were not working initially?

          Well, in this case, the devices were destroyed by machine gun fire. Actually, this is precisely why the crew decided to "dice overboard" - there was no point in waiting for the PG-7 to arrive on board.
          In general, it is difficult to navigate in a tank. Especially in unfamiliar terrain.
      3. yehat2
        yehat2 11 May 2021 10: 53
        -1
        well 12.7 at close range is no longer quite a small arms
        it is rather a massive shelling from small-caliber cannons. will sweep away everything thinner than 10-15mm steel.
    2. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 26 December 2020 11: 26
      +4
      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      Well, it is logical, you will have to go through your own fire mixture.

      but what has it, damn it, "ognesmes" ??
      MAN gave carte blanche to Knippkamp, ​​and he decided to introduce tracks with rubber pads in the chassis of the "two". But what was good for half-gusli did not fit the tank, albeit a light one, because led to increased wear on the pillows. Therefore, already at the stage of the La.S.138 test sample, the rubber bands were abandoned, as well as the lubricated hinges.
      On "kopeck" Ts, they were also going, emnip, to introduce rubber cushions, but they even refused to use it. Not because of the fact that
      you will have to go through your own fire mixture
      1. Vladimir_2U
        Vladimir_2U 26 December 2020 17: 13
        +2
        Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
        Therefore, already at the stage of the La.S.138 test sample, the rubber bands were abandoned, as well as the lubricated hinges.
        I will not argue about the pillows, especially since the rubberized wheels have survived, but I thought that about the hinges.
        1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
          Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 26 December 2020 17: 46
          -1
          Quote: Vladimir_2U
          especially since the rubberized wheels have been preserved

          Well, it has survived, so what? And what should it be? Oh, well, yes, in your opinion, OT should crawl in puddles of burning fire mixture up to the fenders ... laughing
          1. Vladimir_2U
            Vladimir_2U 26 December 2020 20: 41
            +1
            Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
            Ah, well, yes, in your opinion, OT should crawl in puddles of burning fire mixture
            Let your imagination die, you just wrote about the fenders yourself. And this miracle reproaches opponents in this:
            he inadvertently stuck the term "personnel" in the expectation that it would go unnoticed.

            Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
            Well, it has survived, so what? And what should it be
            Do you know about all-metal rollers and rollers with internal shock absorption?
            1. Vladimir_2U
              Vladimir_2U 28 December 2020 04: 03
              +1
              Quote: Vladimir_2U
              amortization
              amortization.
    3. Avior
      Avior 26 December 2020 12: 39
      +9
      The author is surprised, but in much later manuals on the fight against tanks, rifle and machine gun fire is considered effective against observation devices

      including post-war. and even that ...


      smile
      1. bondrostov
        bondrostov 26 December 2020 19: 40
        +7
        Crushed stone in the air intake .. No.
        .. COAL !!! lead to explosion wassat
      2. foxhound
        foxhound 31 December 2020 05: 49
        +1
        It's funny to you, but at the training camp in 2018, we were seriously taught to repel the attack of helicopters and aircraft (!) Of the enemy with dense automatic fire from machine guns and machine guns! I am a deeply civilian person, but even to me it is obvious that the range of such fire is maximum 1 km. And the accuracy is about zero. A senseless waste of ammunition and unmasking.
        1. Radiator
          Radiator 2 January 2021 06: 40
          -1
          And what, helicopters began to fly above a kilometer?
        2. Avior
          Avior 3 January 2021 22: 48
          0
          Once upon a time, ten years ago, or even more, we rode in the Crimea on a pleasure boat, between Yalta and Alushta, or something.
          There were a lot of people, and one of my relatives went and gave money to the captain, and we were led through the wheelhouse on a special small deck, initially something of a service, and then they made something like a VIP for several people.
          So, when we were passing through the wheelhouse, I noticed a fastened plate with diagrams "Methods for evading attacks from aircraft and cruise missiles."
          I remember that it smiled at me then - it was a completely peaceful look of the boat :))))
      3. napalm
        napalm 3 January 2021 20: 19
        0
        We need to sprinkle bread crumbs on the wings. The pigeons will then disable the car completely.
      4. rc56
        rc56 20 March 2021 16: 15
        0
        good cool! a thousand times over!
  2. riwas
    riwas 26 December 2020 05: 44
    +6
    Military history journal (1962, N2, pp. 79-80). Former People's Commissar of Armament B.L. Vannikov wrote in his notes: “As I remember, at the beginning of 1941, the head of GAU G.I.Kulik told me that, according to intelligence, the German army was rapidly re-equipping its armored forces with tanks with increased thickness and improved quality of armor and all our 45-76 mm artillery will be ineffective against them. In addition, they will allegedly have guns with a caliber of more than 100 mm. In this regard, the question was raised of stopping the production of 45-76 mm guns of all variants. "
    TsAMO, f.81, op.12106, l.116. For the same erroneous reasons, at the insistence of G.I. Kulik was also asked about the expediency of anti-tank rifles, and on August 26, 1940, they were removed from service.
    1. Kot_Kuzya
      Kot_Kuzya 26 December 2020 07: 27
      +10
      Quote: riwas
      all our 45-76 mm artillery will be ineffective against them. In addition, they will allegedly have guns with a caliber of more than 100 mm. In this regard, the question was raised of stopping the production of 45-76 mm guns of all variants. "

      The main reason for the withdrawal of these guns from production, according to Grabin, was the adoption of the 57-mm ZIS-2 cannon instead of the 45-mm cannon, and the 107-mm M-60 divisional gun instead of the USV, as a PTO. The 45-mm guns were supposed to remain in the battalions, but at the regimental and divisional levels, the ZIS-2 was supposed to act as a PTO. It was assumed that in the rifle divisions there would be two artillery regiments - a light horse-drawn regiment consisting of 12 USV and 24 M-30, and a heavy one entirely on a mechtyag of 12 M-60 and 12 M-10, as well as a separate anti-tank battalion of 12 ZIS- 2, if possible on a mechtyag. But the war prevented the implementation of these plans.
      Quote: riwas
      For the same erroneous reasons, at the insistence of G.I. Kulik was also asked about the expediency of anti-tank rifles, and on August 26, 1940, they were removed from service.

      No one even imagined the catastrophic losses of the Red Army in the upcoming war, besides, the country's leadership believed that Hitler was not such a madman that, having unconquered Britain behind his back, start a war with the USSR. Before the war, the SD was supposed to have 54 45-mm guns - 2 on sat, 6 each at the cn level and 18 at the SD level. after the disastrous start of the war, only 18 45-mm guns were left in the SD. And they tried to compensate for the lack of forty-fives by the presence of the PTR. Although the PTR was much less effective against tanks than the 45-mm gun. PTR is an ersatz-PTO, they are good as a means of supplementing VET, and not as a replacement. In principle, it would be nice to leave the PTR at the company and battalion levels, for example, in a company to have a squad of 4 rifles, in a battalion a platoon of 12 rifles to fight light armored vehicles, for example, with armored personnel carriers, of which there were quite a few in German motorized and tank divisions ... When attacking motorized infantry with the support of an armored personnel carrier, these guns from a distance of 500-600 m would knock out the armored personnel carrier, thereby it would be possible not to shoot at these targets from the cannons, and thus, without unmasking them for the enemy.
      1. riwas
        riwas 26 December 2020 10: 42
        -1
        The main reason for the withdrawal of these guns from production, according to Grabin, was the adoption of the 57-mm ZIS-2 cannon instead of the 45-mm gun, and the 107-mm M-60 divisional gun instead of the USV

        I cited data from the MO archive.
        About Kulik G.I., who did not little harm to the defense capability of our country before the war.
        In 1940, a 7,62 mm Degtyarev assault rifle (PPD) was developed, but the head of GAU G.I. Kulik considered that the West is not a decree for us, a machine gun is a police weapon. PPDs were withdrawn from production and armament, withdrawn from the troops.
        Stalin tried to convince him more than once, but Kulik was not admirable. The aircraft designer Yakovlev in his book "The Purpose of Life" quotes an excerpt from his conversation with Stalin:
        "Do you know that none other than the leaders of our military department were against the introduction of machine guns in the army and stubbornly held on to the 1891 model rifle? You do not believe, you smile, but this is a fact, and I had to stubbornly fight the marshal before the war Kulik on this issue. "
        1. PilotS37
          PilotS37 26 December 2020 11: 37
          +7
          Quote: riwas
          Stalin repeatedly tried to convince him, but Kulik was not adored.

          Stalin ?!
          Some kind of Kulik ?!
          Do you believe that?
          You never know what our staff storyteller Alexander Sergeevich Ne-Pushkin wrote ...
          According to the same Ne-Pushkin, Stalin did not know anything about the reconstruction of the Garden Ring in Moscow - allegedly it was Khrushch I came up with everything myself and implemented it myself...
          Drop it! No such decisions were made in the USSR without Stalin.
          1. riwas
            riwas 26 December 2020 13: 35
            +2
            Stalin ?!
            Some kind of Kulik ?!

            I cited a quote from the book by D.N. Bolotin "Soviet small arms", M., Military publishing house, 1990.
            Kulik commanded artillery in the civil war. He had a trusting relationship with Stalin. Stalin shot Kulik only after the Second World War, and then for a long tongue, although there were many grave sins behind him.
            1. PilotS37
              PilotS37 27 December 2020 00: 07
              +1
              [/ quote] [quote = riwas]
              Stalin ?!
              Some kind of Kulik ?!

              I cited a quote from the book by D.N. Bolotin "Soviet small arms", M., Military publishing house, 1990.
              Kulik commanded artillery in the civil war. He had a trusting relationship with Stalin. Stalin shot Kulik only after the Second World War, and then for a long tongue, although there were many grave sins behind him.

              Firstly, in a decent society it is accepted that when someone is quoted, it must be clearly indicated - right down to the page number of the source. You didn't. You have not even specified the page now ...
              Well, that's right - scholi ("marginal notes") ...
              Kulik became Marshal of the Soviet Union on May 7, 1940. Less than two years later, in March 1942, Stalin demoted him from marshal to major general and stripped him of all his awards.
              By the way, Kulik was dismissed from the post of the head of the GAU spacecraft ... Ta-da-da-dame! June 19, 1941 ...
              So Comrade Stalin did not suffer from an excess of positive emotions about Kulik in particular. Anyway, by 1941 for sure
              1. riwas
                riwas 27 December 2020 03: 44
                +2
                down to page number

                D.N. Bolotin "Soviet small arms", M., Military publishing house, 1990.
                p. 319, 138-139.
                1. irontom
                  irontom 27 December 2020 10: 13
                  +2
                  I think that it’s familiar and there it is like perestroika tales surfaced.
                  The Kalashnikov magazine has an excellent series of articles on the history of the development and adoption of the PPD in service in it, Kulik did not run close. I am writing from the phone so I cannot give links.
                  At the expense of the German thick-armored vehicles, it was for intelligence that she reported on the design of such machines, which was generally true, so they began to design the Tiger even before the beginning of the Second World War. Reconnaissance messed up a lot, so in the 40th they gave very overestimated data on the production of aircraft, because of which a greatly overestimated program for the production of aircraft was adopted and they were forced to suspend the program of building aircraft factories in the east of the country.
        2. Krasnoyarsk
          Krasnoyarsk 26 December 2020 14: 35
          +5
          Quote: riwas

          About Kulik G.I., who did not little harm to the defense capability of our country before the war.

          A very controversial statement. It was under Kulik that the Red Army adopted the models that fought the entire war, in contrast to the models adopted under Tukhachevsky.
          Quote: riwas

          In 1940, a 7,62 mm Degtyarev assault rifle (PPD) was developed, but the head of GAU G.I. Kulik considered that the West is not a decree for us, a machine gun is a police weapon. PPDs were withdrawn from production and armament, withdrawn from the troops.

          It is impossible to believe in this, because it was on the basis of the experience of the Finnish war that the decision was made on the mass production of automatic weapons.
          And they removed the PPD-40 from production because the production of a cheaper and more technologically advanced PPSh-41 was being prepared.
          Quote: riwas

          "Do you know that none other than the leaders of our military department were against the introduction of machine guns in the army and stubbornly held on to the 1891 model rifle? You do not believe, you smile, but this is a fact, and I had to stubbornly fight the marshal before the war Kulik on this issue. "

          These words of Stalin do not mean that he lost in this "war" with Kulik. Rather the opposite.
          1. sen
            sen 26 December 2020 14: 44
            0
            A highly controversial statement.

            Read about Kulik on Wikipedia.
            https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Кулик,_Григорий_Иванович
            “G. I. Kulik was a poorly organized person who thought a lot about himself, who considered all his actions to be infallible. It was often difficult to understand what he wants, what he wants. He considered the best method of his work to keep his subordinates at bay. His favorite saying when setting tasks and instructions was: "Prison or orders." In the morning, he usually summoned a lot of performers, very vaguely set tasks and, threateningly asking “Do you understand?”, Ordered to leave the office. Everyone who received assignments usually came to me and asked for clarifications and instructions. "
            - Chief Marshal of Artillery N. N. Voronov

            <…> Marshal of the Soviet Union G. I. Kulik could neither command the army, nor fulfill the duties of a representative of the Headquarters. And this was determined <...> by insufficient training, personal qualities. He just was out of place.
            1. Krasnoyarsk
              Krasnoyarsk 26 December 2020 17: 56
              +3
              Quote: sen

              Read about Kulik on Wikipedia.
              https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Кулик,_Григорий_Иванович

              Well, if Vipidekia, then tady oh.
              1. sen
                sen 27 December 2020 04: 43
                +1
                I don't like Wikipedia, there are other sources - this does not change the essence of the matter.
                As follows from the conclusion of the Central Committee of the CPSU (b), constantly being drunk, Kulik was engaged in "self-supply and plundering of state property, spending hundreds of thousands of rubles from state funds." The money was spent on large-scale feasts that spilled over into drinking binges. All this, the party stressed, was accompanied by unprecedented debauchery. Kulik demonstrated defeatist behavior both in the unauthorized surrender of Rostov and in the abandonment of Kerch, the commission of the People's Commissariat of Defense established.
                As he noted in his memoirs “Time. People. Power "Nikita Khrushchev, he" tried several times to open Stalin's eyes to Marshal Kulik, so that he would more soberly assess him. "
                But the Supreme Commander-in-Chief did not listen to him, reproaching that Khrushchev did not know Kulik, but he himself, Stalin, did.

                https://www.gazeta.ru/science/2020/08/24_a_13208035.shtml
                After returning from Spain, he became the head of GAU, and at the same time behaved arrogantly, although he had no particular reason for that. Chief Marshal of Artillery N.N. Voronov believed that “G.I. Kulik was a poorly organized person who thought a lot about himself, who considered all his actions to be infallible. It was often difficult to understand what he wants, what he wants. "
                The opinion of N.N. Voronov was also shared by G.K. Zhukov. For the first time he encountered Kulik on Khalkhin-Gol, where the deputy commissar arrived either to help or as a controller. Then the commander of the troops, the corps commander, did not allow Kulik to interfere in the command and control of the troops, considering him incompetent. “I cannot mention any useful work on his part,” Zhukov answered directly to Stalin's question about how Kulik helped him.

                https://zvezdaweekly.ru/news/2019225165-mXq9R.html
        3. Out
          Out 26 December 2020 20: 00
          +1
          The PPD was developed in the 30s, and was removed from service due to the high cost and the fact that it was supposed to fight at distances beyond the effective PP fire - more than 100 meters. Work on this topic has been carried out since the 20s, Tokarev even created a PP chambered for the Nagant revolver. And the experience of the war and the use of PP in it led to the fact that the USSR and a number of other European states began work on automatic weapons chambered for less power in comparison with the standard rifle.
        4. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 28 December 2020 11: 43
          0
          Quote: riwas
          In 1940, a 7,62 mm Degtyarev assault rifle (PPD) was developed, but the head of GAU G.I. Kulik considered that the West is not a decree for us, a machine gun is a police weapon. PPDs were withdrawn from production and armament, withdrawn from the troops.

          You are confusing PPD-40 and PPD-34.
          The PPD-34 was discontinued for the army - due to the fact that, even with a well-established series, it cost like a DP-27 light machine gun (alas, stamping and welding in our arms military industry appeared only at the very end of the 30s). But the release of the PPD-40 was in strict accordance with party and government decisions.
          Quote: riwas
          Yakovlev in his book "The Purpose of Life" quotes an excerpt from his conversation with Stalin:
          "Do you know that none other than the leaders of our military department were against the introduction of machine guns in the army and stubbornly held on to the 1891 model rifle? You do not believe, you smile, but this is a fact, and I had to stubbornly fight the marshal before the war Kulik on this issue. "

          This thesis is especially well confirmed by the constant pressure of GAU on the designers of the rifle station with the requirement to give the army a self-loading rifle. laughing
          Tell me - why the pre-war Red Army ersatz weapons with an effective firing range of 200 m, if the army is switching to a self-loading rifle chambered for a rifle cartridge?
    2. Malyuta
      Malyuta 26 December 2020 08: 23
      +15
      Quote: riwas
      For the same erroneous reasons, at the insistence of G.I. Kulik was also asked about the expediency of anti-tank rifles, and on August 26, 1940, they were removed from service.

      I am very sorry, but you are not confusing anything?
      1. sen
        sen 26 December 2020 10: 10
        +5
        I am very sorry, but you are not confusing anything?

        We are talking about the 14,5 mm PTR Rukavishnikov model 1939
    3. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 28 December 2020 11: 33
      0
      Quote: riwas
      As I remember, at the beginning of 1941, the head of GAU G.I. Kulik informed me that, according to intelligence, the German army is rapidly re-equipping its armored forces with tanks with increased thickness and improved quality armor, and all our 45-76 mm artillery will be ineffective against them.

      At the same time, Vannikov tactfully omits the results of experimental shooting of domestic armor-piercing shells. carried out in 1940, according to which the maximum armor penetration:
      - 45-mm high-quality BBS for German armor (K = 2600) - 40 mm from 150 m;
      - 76 mm BBS for armor with K = 2450 (i.e. worse than that of the Germans) - 60 mm from 400 m.
      Quote: riwas
      For the same erroneous reasons, at the insistence of G.I. Kulik was also asked about the expediency of anti-tank rifles, and on August 26, 1940, they were removed from service.

      And why is the Red Army PTR, which we pierce 22 mm of armor? In the presence of 54 battalion and anti-tank guns of 45 mm caliber in the rifle division.
  3. The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 26 December 2020 06: 02
    +12
    After reading the reports provided by the author (special thanks to him for that), I personally got the impression that our engineers just "breathed a sigh of relief." After all, if you recall the memories of other combatants in 1941, when 45 mm anti-tank guns often could not penetrate the same T III, then, apparently, the impression was that the Krupp armor was simply "bewitched"!
    In fact, everything turned out to be more prosaic.
  4. Lech from Android.
    Lech from Android. 26 December 2020 07: 06
    +8
    Oh, how many German rarities were sent to the smelting furnace ... to walk among them, touch, sit in the place of a gunner or mechanic driver ... feel the spirit of that time.
    Thank you Eugene for the information ... very interesting.
    1. Hunter 2
      Hunter 2 26 December 2020 08: 02
      +10
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      Oh, how many German rarities were sent to the smelting furnace ... to walk among them, touch, sit in the place of a gunner or mechanic driver ... feel the spirit of that time.
      Thank you Eugene for the information ... very interesting.

      That's absolutely bull's-eye! The sale of "trophy" Weapons, of which there is still enough in storage, would be a good help for the budget, collectors are ready to lay out large sums for some copies. More stupidity than casting a ladder from a Weapon for the Temple ... it's hard to imagine.
      It's the same with technology. Replenish museum funds and sell surplus.
      1. vadivm59
        vadivm59 26 December 2020 17: 44
        +4
        on the channel "star", even before the completion of the construction of the temple, there was a story about German weapons of the Great Patriotic War hangars with stacks of boxes were shown. I even thought that these were modern weapons, but no, by order of the chief, the soldiers brought these boxes to the TV camera and opened them. MY MOTHER !!! what was not there, boxes with waltherai, lugers, mg-42, mp-40 and so on and so forth. full hangars, and everything, as the chief said, are oiled and in working order. although now for war. so that captured small arms still not enough for one temple.
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 28 December 2020 11: 53
          0
          Quote: vadivm59
          so trophy small arms will be enough for more than one temple.

          In total, 800 Parabellums and Walters each, 1200 98k carbines and about a dozen Maschinengewehr 42 are supposed to be utilized from the Wehrmacht's captured small arms stored at the base of the Wehrmacht to create a temple.

          This is about 80 cases of captured weapons. Or just eight "stacks" - less than their number on one side of one of the aisles in one of the hangars with the trophy gunner shown to the correspondents.
      2. irontom
        irontom 27 December 2020 10: 17
        -1
        Damn, sorted out more than once, these rarities are non-liquid.
        1. Hunter 2
          Hunter 2 27 December 2020 10: 23
          0
          Quote: irontom
          Damn, sorted out more than once, these rarities are non-liquid.

          Why? If it's not difficult - explain. From Tyumen, not so long ago, warehouses with "trophies" were taken out and so - there are only Mauser K - 96 ... there were more than a hundred. How can such a trunk be illiquid?
          1. irontom
            irontom 27 December 2020 23: 56
            0
            Cove on the topic let's give everything to pensioners and to the hospital started at the age of 18, everything is like here and now, on the same hanza forum.guns.ru, as it were, softer, howling was especially near and far abroad, how they melted and they were not asked, so they would have boiled on this. There, the conspiratorials noted that they say the weapon will go on sale with a beaver saw to the personal bins of the Terrible.
            The fact that a massive ordinary weapon went into the oven was piled up in warehouses, and you don't want to buy the same MMGs, just pay money.
    2. Krasnoyarsk
      Krasnoyarsk 26 December 2020 14: 18
      -3
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      Oh, how many German rarities were sent to the smelting furnace ... to walk among them, touch, sit in the place of a gunner or mechanic driver ... feel the spirit of that time.

      Do you want to feel the spirit of the Aryans - warriors without fear and reproach?
      1. max702
        max702 26 December 2020 18: 08
        -6
        Exactly! Another admirer of the German genius ... ugh, an abomination .. Kolya from Urengoy ...
        1. Lech from Android.
          Lech from Android. 27 December 2020 02: 55
          +1
          Exactly! Another admirer of the German genius ... ugh, an abomination .. Kolya from Urengoy ...

          You have not beguiled anything dear ... I, too, can accuse you and call you an accomplice of the Nazis and Hitler ... believe me, I have enough words for this.
          If you do not understand the essence of what I wrote in the comment ... you better shut up ... heh heh Kolya from Urengoy ... it is clear that you have neither knowledge nor life experience. From which caches only people like you crawl out ... maybe I will accuse you of libel and hang on you a debt of a million rubles for libel ... I'll think about it. hi
          1. max702
            max702 30 December 2020 06: 42
            -1
            Another fan of paying and kayatso .. straight monitor zatalivat .. Svidomo dream of another skakaus that he will be poured a million pennies in The Hague for panuvaniye ..
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. Lech from Android.
        Lech from Android. 27 December 2020 02: 58
        +1
        Do you want to feel the spirit of the Aryans - warriors without fear and reproach?

        I want to feel with whom our soldiers and officers fought ... I want to feel with what weapon the Nazis fought against the Red Army.
        Don't ask stupid questions. hi
        1. Krasnoyarsk
          Krasnoyarsk 27 December 2020 11: 37
          -3
          Quote: Lech from Android.

          I want to feel with whom our soldiers and officers fought ... I want to feel with what weapon the Nazis fought against the Red Army.
          Don't ask stupid questions.

          Do you know "who our soldiers fought with" just sitting in a German tank, catching a T-34 in the crosshair of the sight, etc.? A strange method of cognition.
          And, strangely, you don’t find (?), The spirit of that time you want to know while being in a German tank, and not in a Soviet one!
          And what should Maxim and I think after that?
          They got themselves into shit, but threaten, for some reason, Maxim. negative
          1. max702
            max702 30 December 2020 07: 00
            0
            This is another Svidomo hired by local staff propagandists, and a million pennies in dreams immediately betrays belonging to the 404th ... VO was a decent site now after it became the # 1 site on military topics at the end of the year was bought with giblets by an Israeli citizen whose friends in the FB McCain and other figures, after that it turns into UG more, sliding down to the level of garbage dumpsters, lie tape, rambler, matzo ear and other liberal media .. And this character is just one of the workers of this front ..
  5. PilotS37
    PilotS37 26 December 2020 11: 11
    +4
    in chromium-molybdenum armor with a low content of chromium, vanadium and molybdenum

    What is it like?!!
  6. CastroRuiz
    CastroRuiz 26 December 2020 11: 57
    -1
    V CNII-48 kakie to pridurki sideli.
    A navesnaya bronia v to vremia, eto primer deshevo, serdito i tekhnologichno.
    1. old dilettante
      old dilettante 21 March 2021 17: 56
      0
      Castro, a group of specialists from the "Armor Institute (TsNII-48), employees of the institute who arrived from the Izhora plant, together with the Magnitogorsk metallurgists, in a short time, a month after the start of the war, mastered the smelting of armor steel at the MMK (Magnitogorsk Metallurgical Plant) in 150 -, 185- and 300-ton main (with an emphasis on the second "o") open-hearth furnaces, which has not been done anywhere else in the world. Armored steel was "cooked" in the so-called "sour" furnaces, with volumes of 50-75 tons.
      During the war years, with the active participation of employees, more than 100 brands of new special steels for shells, tanks, mines, etc. were developed. In 1943, specialists from TsNII-48 were sent to Magnitogorsk, to MMK, headed by prof. A.S. Zavyalov, in order to create new armor for tanks of the IS series and heavy self-propelled guns. And they created it. It is the cheap and "angry" economically alloyed formulation, technology of casting and heat treatment of towers and hulls.
      So, judging by their deeds, they were very intelligent and competent specialists. In everything related to the creation, smelting and processing of armored steels and the manufacture of tank hulls, SU, self-propelled guns, guards mortars, these were highly qualified specialists. And guessing the thoughts of the "gloomy Teutonic genius", "multiplied" by the insights of Adolf Aloizovich, is a thankless task. The experts did not guess, but spoke on the topic of what they would change / use in the "panzer-products", if the task of "improving" was in front of them.
  7. Undecim
    Undecim 26 December 2020 13: 05
    +7
    The flamethrower tank was of an original design, specially adapted for the installation of containers with compressed air and fire mixture
    With compressed nitrogen.

    Rectangular armored boxes on the sides - for nitrogen cylinders.
    The suspension is similar to the Panzer II Ausf. D / E.
  8. Undecim
    Undecim 26 December 2020 13: 56
    +6
    At the same time, a high carbon content significantly increases the likelihood of cracking during welding, but the Germans surprisingly managed to avoid this (including due to the small fraction of manganese).
    There is nothing surprising in this. For this, it is enough to use several simple technological methods that were already known at that time:
    - use of electrodes made of low-carbon steel with an increased deposition rate;
    - cutting edges;
    - selection of optimal welding modes;
    - preliminary and concurrent heating of the parts to be welded.
    Judging by the assembly stand for the Tiger tank hulls at the Henschel & Son plant in Kassel, the Germans had no problems using the above techniques.
    1. old dilettante
      old dilettante 21 March 2021 18: 17
      0
      The Germans had no problems not only with the observance of the technology and technical charts of welding processes, but also with high-class specialists-welders of manual arc welding in the required quantities. And in the USSR they were. Compare the production volumes of panzers in the Reich and tanks in the USSR. On the initiative of E.O. Paton at the plant No. 183 in Nizhny Tagil, the world's first production line for the production of armored hulls of tanks was put into operation, which operated 19 installations for automatic submerged arc welding. This freed up 280 highly qualified welders (for other jobs), who were replaced by 57 workers of lower qualifications. In addition to work on automatic welding, the staff of the Institute established quality control of electrodes and welding; solved a number of the most important problems of gas welding and cutting; suggested accelerated methods of training welders; developed nozzles with a conical channel, which made it possible to dramatically increase the productivity of the gas cutter while simultaneously reducing the oxygen consumption and improving the quality ... Well, the austenitic electrodes with coating were no longer required in such an amount as before.
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 21 March 2021 18: 40
        +1
        And what does this fundamentally change in the technology of welding medium-carbon steels?
        1. old dilettante
          old dilettante 31 March 2021 21: 06
          0
          In the technology of arc welding, as in the physics of processes occurring during welding, the use of automatic submerged arc welding does not fundamentally change anything. The difference is in the cost of the processes and the reduction in the production time of one Soviet machine.
  9. Radiator
    Radiator 26 December 2020 15: 03
    0
    Quote: Mik13

    I saw a description of the case when, during the hostilities in the Donbass, the T-64 of the Armed Forces of Ukraine wandered into someone else's checkpoint and was fired upon by crossfire from two 12.7 machine guns (the narrator used the phrase "knocked out of the cliffs"). As a result of the shelling, the crew left the tank and was taken prisoner, the tank was damaged. When posting the trophy, it turned out that the observation devices were completely inoperative.
    So even now the machine gun is not a friend at all, and not even a friend.

    Sometimes a tank or an infantry fighting vehicle left in fear even after knocking on them with butts, this is not an indicator of anything. Therefore, you are deliberately disingenuous, you have nothing to write about the destruction of the tank, you write only about the capture of the crew.
    The APU-nicknames of Donetsk residents gave up packs and surrendered at the first offer, this does not mean that their weapons were bad.
  10. Kostya Lavinyukov
    Kostya Lavinyukov 27 December 2020 00: 17
    +4
    "And on one of the Czechoslovak tanks LT vz. 38, engineers immediately discovered a three-layer shielding of 15 mm sheets."
    The resilient crew was caught, life-loving. So you can start a war on a light tank, and end on a heavy one, without changing the tank itself.
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 28 December 2020 11: 55
      +1
      Quote: Kostya Lavinyukov
      The resilient crew was caught, life-loving. So you can start a war on a light tank, and end on a heavy one, without changing the tank itself.

      Not ... taking into account the suspension and transmission, designed for the mass of the LT, the crew has a great chance of ending the war in the BOT - an armored firing point. smile
      1. Kostya Lavinyukov
        Kostya Lavinyukov 28 December 2020 13: 31
        0
        So, if we assume that not the entire forehead was screened, it turns out about 800 kg. It does not seem critical considering how much Hetzer weighed at his base.
  11. DesToeR
    DesToeR 27 December 2020 00: 25
    +3
    This raises a couple of questions. Firstly, was it possible that TsNII-48 was not aware of the situation at the front and had no connection with GABTU?

    It may well be that what the military provided scientists, they studied.
    And, secondly, why, in response to the "cardboardness" of the Teutonic armor (as they say in the "Armored Institute"), German engineers suddenly have to increase the armament and mobility of tanks?

    Because the German troops "professed" blitzkrieg, and there mobility plays a major role for the BTT. The lag in armor protection, according to the respected commission, was to be compensated for by more powerful weapons.
    Be that as it may, Soviet tank formations were not qualitatively ready to confront thick-armored German vehicles until 1944.

    And what is a quality for you, a respected author? The ability to pierce any enemy tank in the forehead from 1000 meters? Or the ability of tank forces to complete the assigned task. Do you want "checkers" or "go"? And, secondly, if the USSR was qualitatively inferior to the Reich in BTT right up to 1944, the question arises: why did the Panzerwaffe not fulfill the task in the summer of 1943? After all, the share of the latest "thick-armored" tanks and self-propelled guns reached 30% in the German troops at the Kursk Bulge? What prevented the defeat of the Soviet BT troops in the winter of 1943-1944? After all, there are still no "hordes" of T-34-85, there is no massive IS-2 in the troops, there is no SU-100.
    And from the conclusions of Comrade. The Zavyalovs should not be "discouraged". It is very difficult to predict the actions of fools. One should laugh at those who, in conditions of a shortage of resources and highly maneuverable war, adopt a 44-ton vehicle instead of a 24-ton one, but will never be able to arm more than one regiment out of three in each of their tank divisions with these "thick-armored" tanks. Therefore, ALL the war, these Germans continue to release their good old "groove" over the armor which Zavyalov "conjured" back in 1942.
    1. Kot_Kuzya
      Kot_Kuzya 27 December 2020 02: 38
      +1
      Quote: DesToeR
      It's very difficult to predict the actions of fools

      Stalin, too, did not believe that Hitler would attack the USSR with unconquered England behind him. Therefore, he gave orders not to provoke the Germans at the border and not to shoot down German reconnaissance aircraft, so that Hitler could see that the USSR was not pulling troops to the border and was not going to attack Germany. But Hitler acted absolutely stupidly and started a war on two fronts, which no normal leader would do.
      1. Thomas N.
        Thomas N. 28 December 2020 05: 26
        +1
        Despite the plan for Operation Sea Lion, Hitler and the Nazis did not have a very strong desire to occupy England. They considered the British a kindred Aryan people and wanted to force them out of the war, they tried to negotiate a separate peace (in particular, the "strange" escape of Hess to England). There was no real war on two fronts for Germany until 1944. And there was no way to postpone the attack on the USSR until England left the war (and even more so its occupation). In general, there was no way to stop the war for any length of time. It’s not Hitler’s stupidity, but the very essence of the Nazi state. Such a state (its economy) cannot exist without war, it is like a bicycle - if it doesn’t ride, then it falls on its side. The Nazis could not stop the war because without the war they would quickly lose power. In general, a one-way trip.
        1. Kot_Kuzya
          Kot_Kuzya 28 December 2020 05: 43
          -1
          Quote: Thomas N.
          They considered the British a kindred Aryan people and wanted to force them out of the war, tried to negotiate a separate peace (in particular, the "strange" escape of Hess to England)

          Well, this is understandable, Hitler was an Anglophile and admired the British, who managed to conquer half the world and become a world hegemon. He saw in them proof of the superiority of the Aryan spirit.
          Quote: Thomas N.
          Such a state (its economy) cannot exist without war, it is like a bicycle - if it doesn’t ride, then it falls on its side. The Nazis could not stop the war because without the war they would quickly lose power

          And what prevented Hitler from directing his efforts to seize Africa, the Middle East and raise a rebellion in British India against the British? He would have succeeded quite well, especially in alliance with the Japanese. In real history, the Japanese captured Singapore, all of Southeast Asia and reached Burma. If Hitler had struck from the east at this time, the British would have lost 100% of India.
        2. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 28 December 2020 12: 12
          +2
          Quote: Thomas N.
          Such a state (its economy) cannot exist without war, it is like a bicycle - if it doesn’t ride, then it falls on its side.

          As gunter-spb wrote in the comments to the post on Reich economics:
          - Now let's grab the rich $ CountryName $ and pay off all our debts! for now, give us a little more to speed up the victory!
          - 295 million marks in gold and currency received under the Anschluss of Austria were loved in a year.
          - There are 40-something countries in Europe. You can draw up a business plan.
          smile
    2. Sergey M. Karasev
      Sergey M. Karasev 4 January 2021 17: 38
      0
      more than one regiment out of three in each of its tank divisions.

      There was only one tank regiment in the German TD. But there are really three tank battalions in it, but not always, sometimes two.
      1. DesToeR
        DesToeR 4 January 2021 17: 50
        +1
        Yes indeed.
  12. Kot_Kuzya
    Kot_Kuzya 28 December 2020 05: 43
    +1
    Quote: Thomas N.
    They considered the British a kindred Aryan people and wanted to force them out of the war, tried to negotiate a separate peace (in particular, the "strange" escape of Hess to England)

    Well, this is understandable, Hitler was an Anglophile and admired the British, who managed to conquer half the world and become a world hegemon. He saw in them proof of the superiority of the Aryan spirit.
    Quote: Thomas N.
    Such a state (its economy) cannot exist without war, it is like a bicycle - if it doesn’t ride, then it falls on its side. The Nazis could not stop the war because without the war they would quickly lose power

    And what prevented Hitler from directing his efforts to seize Africa, the Middle East and raise a rebellion in British India against the British? He would have succeeded quite well, especially in alliance with the Japanese. In real history, the Japanese captured Singapore, all of Southeast Asia and reached Burma. If Hitler had struck from the east at this time, the British would have lost 100% of India. Moreover, in the Middle East, oil breakthroughs are the most valuable resource for waging war. But it was in oil that Germany most of all lacked.
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 28 December 2020 12: 02
      0
      Quote: Kot_Kuzya
      Moreover, in the Middle East, oil breakthroughs are the most valuable resource for waging war. But it was in oil that Germany most of all lacked.

      This breakthrough of oil in those days it was largely theoretical. In practical production, the United States and the colonies in Southeast Asia ruled. As for the Middle East, in 1938, Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia and Bahrain produced a total of about 16,2 million tons of oil, or 5,9% of world production.
  13. tolancop
    tolancop 28 December 2020 13: 56
    +2
    Quote: riwas
    .... About GI Kulik, who did not little harm to the defense capability of our country before the war.
    In 1940, a 7,62 mm Degtyarev assault rifle (PPD) was developed, but the head of GAU G.I. Kulik considered that the West is not a decree for us, a machine gun is a police weapon. PPDs were removed from production and armament, withdrawn from the troops ...

    The PPD was developed and put into service in the early 30s (PPD-34). Further, its modernization took place. And in 1940, as far as I remember, there was a competition for the development of a submachine gun in which several designers took part. Those. there was no fundamental rejection of PP as a type of weapon, but there is a desire to replace the low-tech and expensive PPD with another model.
    It is customary to water Kulik with slops, but whether there are objective reasons for this is a big question. From my point of view, it is not at all correct to evaluate the activity of this or that person THEN, having information TODAY. Much obvious TODAY, THEN was not at all obvious.
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 28 December 2020 17: 13
      +2
      Quote: tolancop
      The PPD was developed and put into service in the early 30s (PPD-34). Further, its modernization took place. And in 1940, as far as I remember, there was a competition for the development of a submachine gun in which several designers took part. Those. there was no fundamental rejection of PP as a type of weapon, but there is a desire to replace the low-tech and expensive PPD with another model.

      In short, another round of struggle between the military-industrial complex and the army: between "take what you give" and "until it corresponds to the specification, we will not take it."
      Kulik, and in the case of the T-34, twice tried to stop accepting ready-made tanks for this very reason - the plant frankly scored to eliminate the shortcomings identified during the run of production vehicles, and drove the shaft. Kulik was not allowed to stop production, but the plant still had to deal with the UKN. However, the factory workers promised to fix most of the shortcomings already from the 1001 production car.
      Quote: tolancop
      It is customary to water Kulik with slops, but whether there are objective reasons for this is a big question.

      It's just that most of what we know from Kulike was written by people with whom he had to fight. Kulik tried to introduce into the framework of the design freedom of the 30s, when the norm of life was the acceptance into service of frankly incapable of weapons under the promise of "fixing everything in the future." "Sorokopyatka" was brought up to the requirements of the original TK for five years - brought. The divisional gun was brought up for three years - they didn't finish it, they had to change to a new one. The large-caliber machine gun was refined for seven years - it was not finished, and it remained an expensive and low-tech product.
      Kulik, on the other hand, demanded the unthinkable - that only those weapons that had completely passed military tests were accepted for service.
  14. Kostadinov
    Kostadinov 29 December 2020 13: 23
    +1
    small machine-gun fire can still be quite effective when used against German tanks, including even medium and heavy ones.

    The same was true in Korea against American and British medium and heavy tanks. The small arms and machine-gun fire hit "pretty" action, especially in combination with the defeat of the chassis.
  15. Konnick
    Konnick 31 December 2020 07: 49
    0
    Quote: Kostadinov
    small machine-gun fire can still be quite effective when used against German tanks, including even medium and heavy ones.

    The same was true in Korea against American and British medium and heavy tanks. The small arms and machine-gun fire hit "pretty" action, especially in combination with the defeat of the chassis.

    This has been confirmed in other armed conflicts, including in Chechnya.
    Previously, the Soviet design school sought to minimize optical devices, since practice has shown that optics are very sensitive to shelling from ordinary small arms already at a distance of 500-600 meters.
    Modern optoelectronic devices provide a large visibility distance, and hence the combat distance, but the pursuit of this indicator has led, one might say, to the "gigantization" of aiming devices, surveillance and active protection systems. The overall dimensions of these devices create clearly visible superstructures on the turret, which, when the enemy uses large-caliber sniper rifles, become hit at a distance of two kilometers, or even more.
    The design of tanks has reached insanity, in my opinion. The tank, created as a mobile means of combating infantry and firing points in cover, by approaching and using a cannon for direct fire, becomes some kind of armored vehicle for fighting other armored vehicles, and before the first hit of a shell in the tower. Moreover, penetration is not required to disable the tank. A tank hung with so-called "birdhouses" is deprived of these devices. Those. the distance of destruction of the tank is still increasing
    Armata became the apotheosis of the dead end in the development of design ideas. Armata, whose tower has grown in size due to the increase in instruments and various sensors, thank God no radar station from Shilka was installed. Remember the first attempts at pen with an uninhabited tower - a miniature tower, a lowered tank height. In Armata, a mini-tower, protected by serious armor, remained with a gun, It is just that it is not visible behind the decorative anti-spall armor tower. But numerous expensive, practically unprotected devices are visible. And this is just the tip of the iceberg, there is a sighting complex under the anti-splinter armor. Yes, the crew will probably remain operational after a shell hit. The shell may not even reach, shot down by KAZ. But the outer tower will not withstand shelling from a large-caliber machine gun. And the crew can remain in their supercapsule, blocked by the remnants of the thin armor plates of the tower cover. I imagine even greater destruction if KAZ catches any HE shell from a 152mm howitzer. And if Armata accidentally drives up to the infantrymen in a working condition at a distance of an aimed shot from a machine gun, then the crew will need to surrender.
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  17. EvilLion
    EvilLion 27 January 2021 08: 26
    0
    The report was signed on December 24, 1942, when, as we recall, the Soviet troops had already managed to face the newest German "Tiger".


    Those who fired the first "tigers" hardly distinguished them from the Pz-IV Ausf. F
  18. gsev
    gsev 20 March 2021 20: 14
    0
    Quote: foxhound
    Pointless waste of ammunition and unmasking.

    Probably the helicopter pilot, having met fire from the ground, will try to finish the attack faster and leave the battlefield. The Americans in southern Afghanistan demanded that the Afghans throw up stones, earth and just sand when Soviet aircraft appeared, explaining this by the fact that an active hatred of enemy aircraft would lead to their death. ...
  19. yehat2
    yehat2 11 May 2021 10: 57
    -1
    I'm wondering if T3 and T4 mainly met light tanks in the summer and autumn of 41, what was the point in analyzing what the T-34 or KV-1 can do?
    The same t34, t28, t35, kv-1 in some units were quite successfully penetrated with a sub-caliber from a 50mm cannon.
    And t3h already in 41 had overhead screens, making them almost invulnerable against 45mm artillery in the forehead.