Military Review

Passion on the Russian submarine off the American coast, or "At the command of the pike ..."

178
The past week has passed under the sign of "Pike." And this is not at all a new astrological symbol, but a Russian submarine of the 971 project, which NATO called “Shark”.

Initially, in a number of media there was information that the Russian submarine “Pike-B” showed all the inconsistency of the work of American radars, spending as much as almost a month in the waters of the Gulf of Mexico in close proximity to the shores of the United States of America. The American newspaper The Washington Free Beacon added fuel to the fire by publishing a material entitled “Silent Move”, in which it told its readers that the US Navy had “missed” the presence of a Russian nuclear submarine with long-range cruise missiles on board. shores. The American edition reports that the radar noticed the submarine only at that moment when it had already turned on the turns and began to leave the area in which it had been observing.

Passion on the Russian submarine off the American coast, or "At the command of the pike ..."


For a while, neither Russian nor American officials did not comment on this information, and then suddenly, as if from a cornucopia, official versions of what happened on American shores were falling down. After some deliberation and the search for possible answers to the “presumptuous Russian,” a representative of the American military department, Wendy Schneider, spoke. For natural reasons, Mrs. Schneider did everything to demonstrate to the world community that not the Russian Schuka was located off the coast of the United States, but the newspaper duck, which many took at face value ... A Pentagon spokeswoman said what has come to her and her boss’s information is based on, and indeed such information simply cannot be true.

Well, in fact, what else could they say about this at the Pentagon? Does anyone really think that the official representative of the defense department of the most "protected" country in the world will come out and say that yes, they say, Russian submarines actively patrol our American shores and sometimes direct their periscopes to see how in the windows of the White House or private office Leon Panetta burns an unquenchable light ... Yes, if the Pentagon allowed itself to act with such calmness, confirming the presence of Russian nuclear submarines in close proximity to the hospitable US coast, then in the US Congress it would rise We are so rustled that Leon Panetta would have packed his bags tomorrow and ordered a taxi so as not to go from the place of his “former work” (Pentagon building) on ​​foot ...

That is why Mrs. Schneider expressed her utter surprise that a Russian submarine of some kind, the design of which began as early as the middle of the 70 of the last century, could calmly overcome the anti-submarine defense system and do its job off the coast of America for a month.

After the speeches of Mrs. Schneider, Russian officials also had to take up the matter. A spokesman for the Russian Ministry of Defense said that reports from the American media about the discovery of a Russian submarine in the Gulf of Mexico could not be called a sensation. Units of the Russian underwater fleet since the resumption of long hikes, they constantly go on duty to various points in the oceans. For obvious reasons, the routes of such campaigns are not going to be announced in the Ministry of Defense, and therefore there is nothing scandalous or reprehensible in the news of the appearance of Russian submarines off the coast of certain countries.

From these words it is clear that the official Russian side indirectly confirms that the Pike-B could be on duty near the American coast, and if the American radars detected it only at the final stage of duty, then this, as they say, is their problem.

By the way, the fact that Russian submarines are off the coast of the United States, indeed, there can be no sensation. As early as in 2009, the same Americans initially tried to prove with enviable persistence that there were no atomic submarines off the coast of the United States, although after a short time the Pentagon not only recognized the fact that the submarines were located at a distance of about 320 km from the eastern coast of the States, but expressed concern with this fact. They say that Russian submarines that have not appeared on our shores for years 15, now cause us concern. Immediately I heard the words about the “echo of the cold” war, which the Russians are continuing with respect to the “most democratic” country in the world. You would think that the US military ships of the submarine fleet do not go anywhere beyond their bases ...

Today, the situation with the Russian “Shchuki-B” is more like a performance in which the American side shouts “I don’t believe” with enviable persistence, although this simply speaks once again of the Pentagon as an organization trying to convince both themselves and US citizens and, most importantly, the congressmen that "in Baghdad (I mean in Washington), everything is calm."

But we can say that the Pentagon has really pretty much lost its nose lately. After the activity of the Soviet submarine fleet faded away, the American anti-submarine systems off the coast of the United States began to fall into a half slumber. And now, even if a danger sign appears in the form of a Russian submarine even on the radar, this is perceived by many as just another color dream: they say that Russians cannot approach such a short distance to our shores - sleep on, Johnny ...

But with the advent of the Russian submarine in the Gulf of Mexico, at least one more point is connected. The fact is that, strangely enough, it would even be beneficial for the Pentagon itself if a couple of Russian Schukas quietly approached the American shores. The benefit may be as follows: Obama announced a reduction in the military budget, and this reduction is already beginning to be translated into reality. And this is, first and foremost, it can strike directly at the office of Leon Panetta, who hardly wants to lose a substantial share of complementary foods from the US budget. Therefore, the Russian nuclear submarine has already put Mr. Panetta literally at a standstill. On the one hand, he needs to justify himself, as they say, before the party and the people, stating that “there were no Russians”, but on the other hand, it should be said loudly that the Russians were to beat a couple of tens of billions of dollars as additional funding to the anti-submarine defense, which literally gnaw through various "Pike" and other underwater living creatures from Russia.

In general, for Russia, whether Obama will give money to Panetta or not, whether the Pentagon recognizes the fact of finding a Russian submarine in close proximity to its shores or does not recognize, is not particularly important: in any case, you need to continue to conduct your work systematically the opportunity for the submarine fleet of the country to gain momentum. After all, as we know, there are only two allies who never fail ...
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  1. esaul
    esaul 18 August 2012 08: 37
    +22
    "This is a great secret!", As they would say in the times of Peter the Great, but what is more important for us is what Alexey summed up in the article


    In general, for Russia, whether Obama will give money to Panetta or not, whether the Pentagon recognizes the fact of finding a Russian submarine in close proximity to its shores or does not recognize, is not particularly important: in any case, you need to continue to conduct your work systematically the opportunity for the submarine fleet of the country to gain momentum. After all, as we know, there are only two allies who never fail ...

    "This is a guarantee of our security and respect for the country in world politics!" - and this is already the words of your humble servant, comrade ...
    1. PatriotizTAT
      PatriotizTAT 18 August 2012 08: 45
      +13
      And in the Middle Ages there was another no less capacious phrase "And if you often repeat the blows, even if the ax is small (then the bish" Pike "), but the mighty oak will cut down" But soon China can also engage in such underwater fishing ...
      1. Troyekurov
        Troyekurov 18 August 2012 13: 22
        +9
        This is how much amer missile defense is now needed! On its territory! Will the American missile defense industry withstand such a shaft? What about the budget? ..
        1. Hysnik-Tsuzoy
          Hysnik-Tsuzoy 18 August 2012 22: 26
          +3
          Quote: Troekurov
          What about the budget?


          They learned to print candy wrappers, a bad thing - not tricky. Only this will not help. In this world, guaranteed protection against a nuclear strike does not exist, including preventive strikes.
        2. saturn.mmm
          saturn.mmm 18 August 2012 22: 39
          +2
          Quote: Troekurov
          Will the American missile defense industry withstand such a shaft?

          The world community pays for all American expenses; it began in 2008 openly.
        3. edge
          edge 19 August 2012 08: 51
          +1
          what is it about when the flight time is seconds. the co-cameras are no longer so hot
        4. Forward
          Forward 20 August 2012 20: 23
          0
          Quote: Troekurov
          Will the American missile defense industry withstand such a shaft? And the budget? ..

          And what is to us? Let them "stand" ... laughing
      2. Koshakai
        Koshakai 21 August 2012 19: 58
        0
        And shoals of "red" submarines will sail across America ...
    2. lotus04
      lotus04 18 August 2012 09: 05
      +15
      Quote: esaul
      whether the Pentagon recognizes the fact that the Russian submarine is in close proximity to its shores or does not recognize


      Didn't officially admit it. This was reported by another 16,08,12 ,. But still, THAT is what you need to develop and build! And then: "Aircraft carriers - aircraft carriers!" Yes, when an aircraft carrier leaves the base, they immediately learn about it even on the other side of the planet. And they are taking action. True who can. And here ....
      1. esaul
        esaul 18 August 2012 09: 12
        +7
        Quote: lotus04
        Yes, when an aircraft carrier leaves the base, they will immediately find out even on the other side of the planet.


        Greetings colleague. And, as Kartsev said - "We will send our ANTI-cyclone to their cyclone ...!"
        1. v53993
          v53993 18 August 2012 12: 59
          +5
          Better yet, two or more guaranteed anticyclones.
        2. valton
          valton 18 August 2012 13: 51
          +2
          For esaul +100.
      2. VAF
        VAF 18 August 2012 09: 30
        +16
        Quote: lotus04
        Not officially recognized. This was announced by another 16,08,12 ,. But still, THAT is what needs to be developed and built!


        And you need to often remind that ... would recognize lol

        But about what needs to be developed and built ..... ++++++ !!!!!! good But they have ... a different ..... "direction"!
        1. lotus04
          lotus04 18 August 2012 11: 45
          +1
          Quote: vaf
          But they have ... a different ..... "direction"!


          Greetings!
          That's right!
          But against such "MACHINE" all their missile defense, together with the IJIS in flight.
        2. lelikas
          lelikas 18 August 2012 13: 13
          +1
          For the parade, a general offset, but is there a link in a higher resolution?
        3. valton
          valton 18 August 2012 14: 01
          +18
          I propose, at the bottom of the United States, to establish the Russian flag at the bottom. And with each call of the Russian nuclear submarine, raise this flag above the water. Over time in the usa
          every year will celebrate the day of the Russian Navy.
          1. Ortrega
            Ortrega 18 August 2012 21: 26
            +1
            Quote: valton
            And with each call of the Russian nuclear submarine, raise this flag above the water. Over time in the usa
            every year will celebrate the day of the Russian Navy.

            Yeah, raise the flag on July 4th, or when they have a "great holiday" drinks
            1. lotus04
              lotus04 19 August 2012 07: 57
              +5
              Quote: Ortrega
              Yeah, raise the flag on July 4th, or when they have a "great holiday" drinks


              Well yes! "Great" holiday, all day long independent! And on the rest of the year, they fight for her.
          2. Koshakai
            Koshakai 21 August 2012 20: 05
            0
            And I propose to raise the Russian And Soviet flag. To shake and write in their Pintagons.
          3. Liliputin
            Liliputin 23 August 2012 00: 05
            0
            Quote: valton
            I propose, at the bottom of the United States, to establish the Russian flag at the bottom. And with each call of the Russian nuclear submarine, raise this flag above the water. Over time, the United States will celebrate Russian Navy Day every year.

            .
            It's ridiculous! Neither official Washington nor Moscow confirms the information, and hotheads are ready to dive to the bottom of the Gulf of Mexico and set flags there))))
      3. 53-Sciborskiy
        53-Sciborskiy 18 August 2012 17: 09
        +2
        We always fix the appearance of American submarines, as well as their movements, and the Americans, as it turned out, may not always do this. ”
        1. REPA1963
          REPA1963 18 August 2012 22: 15
          0
          Where does infa about "always" come from?
          1. starshina78
            starshina78 19 August 2012 19: 24
            +3
            I don’t know how now, but when I was serving in Kamchatka from 1975 to 1978, a general alarm was announced three times and the IPC went on a hunt for the found boats. Twice they escaped discovered, and once they forced them to swim in a salvo from RBU. Then the TFR accompanied her two hundred miles. Each call of the American nuclear submarine was detected immediately - that's for sure. At the moment, this is a question for our admirals and the Minister of Defense: "And how are our coastal waters protected, are cases of non-detection of American nuclear submarines allowed?"
        2. edge
          edge 19 August 2012 08: 57
          0
          and they trust, after all, reboot-Babama pressed the red button.
      4. edge
        edge 19 August 2012 08: 54
        0
        and you’re wrong: on the aircraft carrier there is a brigade of marines + means of delivery and support for the landing. 5 aircraft carriers and it’s possible to keep a battalion in the usa
      5. alex popov
        alex popov 19 August 2012 18: 27
        0
        All right. But both the us and the people know about the exit from the base of submarines with fairly high accuracy. According to intelligence and indirect evidence. Just in the ocean, the submarine is much more difficult to find. This is its undeniable advantage.)
        1. Koshakai
          Koshakai 21 August 2012 20: 08
          0
          The landing submarine? Suddenly - Russian special forces destroy the Pentagon and the White House with nuclear devices and mount the Soviet flag on a statue?
      6. Koshakai
        Koshakai 21 August 2012 20: 02
        0
        Well, suppose the submarines when they leave the base, when they enter they know by observing from satellites, but the process itself is yes -
        "Sir, the sub is out into the ocean!
        And where is she now?
        Unknown!
        (amerovsky mate) "
        A curtain
    3. Alx1miK
      Alx1miK 18 August 2012 10: 35
      +8
      Great news. Let the Yankees shake. Their flock can stand in the Strait of Ormud, but ours cannot stand near them! An echo of the Cold War? So the "cold" war with Russia has been going on for 500 years, about which you children. And it will go constantly, it is important not to forget about it.
    4. v53993
      v53993 18 August 2012 12: 48
      +6
      The main thing is that we begin to respect ourselves.
      And I do not need the respect of thieving Americans.
      Guided by them - do not respect yourself.
      1. curious
        curious 18 August 2012 13: 39
        +6
        In general, everything, as always: as a result of the lack of reliable information, an exuberant imagination is played out. To begin with, it would be nice to decide whether we trust the American press or not? If yes, then selectively or completely? Do we trust our official reports, or not really?
        Ato in the information swamp, someone always catches his fish, and the public interested always stays with his nose
        1. Delta
          Delta 18 August 2012 17: 46
          +2
          this stormy imagination is played out from the desire to wishful thinking. Hundreds of our submarines off the coast of the United States seem to many. First, SUCH infa about our boat is in the hands of the Pentagon, which needs a defense budget. Under the USSR, they frightened their congress with anything from an infantry fighting vehicle to an MiG-25 and built V-2 and other expensive pseudo-steels against all this. And ours are happy ... I don’t want to upset anyone, but after the loss of K-219, trips to the US shores stopped.
          1. Eraser
            Eraser 18 August 2012 18: 30
            -4
            "The Washington Free Beacon is an American web site that publishes associated content from a US conservative perspective. [1] [2]
            It was founded in February 7, 2012 by Matthew Continetti "from this site, which is not even a year old, this information went, in my opinion" Mrs. Schneider "correctly said that these are fairy tales. smile
            1. Koshakai
              Koshakai 21 August 2012 20: 13
              0
              Yes, and in general we have no submarines, and the Soviet Union was even afraid to send its submarines to the shores of the "valiant", yeah, and it’s not true, and in general it was a long time ago. lol
    5. smel
      smel 18 August 2012 16: 11
      0
      In the distant South America, one politician spoke unpleasantly about these two allies. At the same time, he emptied the emperor, who said these words. Well, nothing ... Our electorate continues to trust this leader.
    6. 1tankist
      1tankist 19 August 2012 18: 29
      +1
      Quote: esaul
      This is a guarantee of our security and respect for the country in world politics!

      Golden words good
  2. itr
    itr 18 August 2012 08: 39
    +13
    American anti-submarine systems off the coast of the United States began to fall into a half-sleep little by little. You might think Russian is on alert. Let anyone try to tell me that the Americans are not on duty off the Russian coast. And I generally don’t hear about 20 years that our somebody found on their shores
    1. jamert
      jamert 18 August 2012 08: 52
      +9
      In fact, the bottom line is that, having taken up the distant seas, the US Navy forgot about its own waters. But the Coast Guard will not detect nuclear submarines - its tasks are different. Yes, and the Yankees have no ships capable of operating in their own territorial waters yet (only a couple of pieces were produced, which for the entire coastal line of the USA are crumbs).
      But you're right - and American submarines are sailing to the Russian coast for sure. The fact that they don’t talk about anything does not mean that it is not there. laughing
      1. Bronis
        Bronis 18 August 2012 10: 16
        +2
        The fact that we swim to visit each other is quite a normal situation. It's just the service. Most likely, we do not enter the territorial waters. There is no special practical need for this neither for us, nor for the Americans. International legislation is not violated, everyone is happy. And on such news, the press makes money, politicians try to make a rating ("and we said that the enemy does not sleep"), and the military - to knock out allocations ("you have to do something!").
    2. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 18 August 2012 08: 55
      +12
      Quote: itr
      And I generally don’t hear about 20 years that our somebody found on their shores

      Well, in general, our policy is different. If the amers have begun to denigrate Russia, then they are doing it qualitatively and at all levels, directing the views of their citizens and telling them that Russia is the enemy and their boats with nuclear missiles off our coast, but the statement that American boats off the coast of Russia you will not hear from them, is not included in the concept of brainwashing.
      1. Delink
        Delink 18 August 2012 10: 48
        +2
        They have an ideology that is missing from us. She is only just beginning to appear, we open our closed eyes once.
      2. REPA1963
        REPA1963 18 August 2012 22: 17
        -1
        I think we just don’t know whether or not they are on our shores.
    3. lotus04
      lotus04 18 August 2012 09: 17
      0
      Quote: itr
      And I generally don’t hear about 20 years that our somebody found on their shores


      And what the hell is the difference, discovered or not? This is not a reason for us to give money.
    4. alexdol
      alexdol 18 August 2012 20: 45
      -4
      itr (2) RU "And in general, for 20 years I have not heard that ours found someone near their shores"
      Unfortunately, we must admit that they not only visit our shores, but also managed to sink our super nuclear submarine Kursk in 2000, just under Putin ... and the fact that it was the Americans who sank it does not cause any doubt! It is also surprising that they easily got away with all this!
      1. Delta
        Delta 18 August 2012 20: 50
        +4
        Do you have evidence that the Americans did it?
        1. REPA1963
          REPA1963 18 August 2012 22: 19
          -1
          Do you have that she drowned herself?
          1. Delta
            Delta 18 August 2012 22: 47
            +1
            she herself could not drown. A pile of mistakes that led to disaster, starting with the design flaws and torpedo flaws and ending with the operating conditions of the weapon
        2. alexdol
          alexdol 19 August 2012 09: 25
          0
          .Delta (1) UA 'Do you have any proof that the Americans did it? "
          What proof do you need? You look at what you have lifted and look at the hole VERY INTERESTING form and even a dent INSIDE !!!
          This hole of the correct round shape completely refutes the official conclusions - it took so much time to conduct an investigation to make "fake conclusions" !!! But apparently it was worth it, because there are still people like you who either don't have brains or just don't want to think !!! In general, I have already noticed that many people are not all right with their brains here? You tell them the TRUTH, and they put "minuses"! But bet as much as you like, only it won't make you feel better ...
          1. Delta
            Delta 19 August 2012 10: 15
            +4
            about the hole it’s already funny even to repeat for the hundredth time, but I’ll laugh: the MK 48 torpedo does not penetrate the ship’s hull !!! It is designed to explode next to the ship, to increase the destructive power. Is it difficult for you to think or there are no brains and it is convenient to consider the hole as a trace of a torpedo? this hole is in the area of ​​the second compartment, so why then did you find the hatch of the first compartment in the third? the explosion came from the first, not from the second. And most importantly - the sturdy case in the place of that dent (hole) is not torn. So what kind of torpedo, eh?))) I honestly can hardly imagine such a torpedo myself, capable of breaking through a solid submarine hull. But you can believe in this, not a question))) By the way, I haven’t put you cons yet))

            And evidence is needed. And what about without them. Before you introduce them, all these are your sick fantasies.
            1. lotus04
              lotus04 19 August 2012 11: 16
              0
              Quote: Delta
              but I’ll laugh: the MK 48 torpedo does not penetrate the ship’s hull !!!


              I won't argue with you anymore, but I will laugh too. If you are such a seasoned submariner and so competent in Pen Dos torpedoes, you should know that it is controlled. And if someone needed it, they could even "screw" it into the periscope.
              1. Kars
                Kars 19 August 2012 11: 23
                +2
                Oh, how I laughed with this nonsense.
                Depleted uranium in the warhead of a blunt ammunition.
                A copper ring --- in copper, the melting temperature is 300-400 degrees lower than in steel. And how does this ring heat up to heat in WATER and even flowing.

                Armor-piercing ammunition with depleted uranium.
                1. lotus04
                  lotus04 19 August 2012 12: 19
                  +2
                  Quote: Kars
                  - in copper, the melting temperature is 300 -400 degrees lower than in steel


                  The photograph shows the outlet left by the copper core of the RPG-7 grenade launcher shot. He hit the side armor, went through the car and stepped out on the other side.


                  Ask more questions. Let's laugh together. What is the difference, "dull" ammunition or "sharp". The question is about the hardness of the material.
                  1. Kars
                    Kars 19 August 2012 13: 13
                    +2
                    Quote: lotus04
                    RPG-7 grenade launcher left by the copper core of the shot.

                    Where are you from? From the forest? Sorry, I already have epithets ending.
                    The RPG-7 warhead is cumulative, and it does not have a copper core, it has a copper lining of a cumulative funnel, which, when detonated, forms a cumulative stream with a velocity of more than several thousand meters per second.
                    Quote: lotus04
                    What is the difference, "dull" ammunition or "sharp". The question is the hardness of the material

                    It’s a huge difference, didn’t they tell you about the needle at school? Why is it sharp and not dumb.
                    And for a torpedo with a scanty compared to armor-piercing ammunition, this is generally more important than ever.
                  2. Delta
                    Delta 19 August 2012 14: 25
                    +1
                    well, if a person compares a grenade from an RPG and a torpedo, then what to talk about with him ... some blissful
              2. MURANO
                MURANO 19 August 2012 11: 55
                +2
                Quote: lotus04
                I won't argue with you anymore, but I will laugh too. If you are such a seasoned submariner and so competent in Pen Dos torpedoes, you should know that it is controlled. And if someone needed it, they could even "screw" it into the periscope.

                All the same, we will laugh. Do you know how TU happens? If you knew, then such nonsense as "And if someone needs it, they could even" screw it into the periscope ", they would not write.
              3. Delta
                Delta 19 August 2012 14: 24
                0
                "I will not argue with you anymore, but I will laugh too. If you are such a seasoned submariner and so competent in Pen Dos torpedoes, you should know that it is controlled. And if someone needed it, they could at least" screw "it into the periscope. "

                and we are already on "you"? is it too early? a technically competent person can argue with me, and this is not necessarily a submariner. The MK 48 torpedo is designed in such a way that it explodes next to the ship and nothing else. Have you seen enough Hollywood movies about smart bombs?)))

                And if it is controllable and can be "screwed in" somewhere, then can it penetrate the strong hull of the submarine? well it is so ... pure neighing))))
              4. saturn.mmm
                saturn.mmm 19 August 2012 19: 24
                +1
                Quote: lotus04
                If you are such an experienced submariner and so competent in Pen - dos torpedoes, you should know that it is controllable.

                Yes manageable and what of it.

                TORPEDA LARGE-SIZED MK48
                Multipurpose torpedo in service with the US Navy. It can be used against submarines and surface ships. The hull has a diameter of 533 mm and is divided into four compartments: bow, combat, stern and control compartment. In the nose compartment are the transducer, receiver, emitter and logic unit used to control homing. The logic unit has a special computing device that authorizes torpedo maneuvers when finding a target, homing and secondary attack. In the aft compartment there is a power plant consisting of an engine, executive torpedo controls, a combustion chamber, an alternator and a valve block. The engine type is rotary piston, it operates on the Otto-2 liquid unitary fuel. In large torpedoes Mk48, in addition to modification 1, the coaxial propellers of the opposite rotation are replaced by axial water jets, which are driven by special rotary piston engines. In the fighting compartment, located behind the bow, there is a fighting charging compartment containing an explosive with a mass of 350 kg, a fuse, a conventional safety device and an electronic unit located in the rear of the compartment. It includes electronic equipment responsible for undermining the combat charge. In the control compartment, located between the combat and fuel compartments of the torpedo, there are command and gyroscopic control system units and a power supply. The command control unit, located in the lower part of the control compartment housing, provides the torpedo with rear speed and a wide range of depths, which is limited by the maximum (600–900 m) and minimum travel depths. The fuel is a non-explosive and insensitive to various shocks liquid of red color, which has a specific gravity slightly larger than the mass of water. The open exhaust system used in the dashboard is responsible for dissolving in water an impressive part of the exhaust gases, which makes it possible to make its trace practically invisible. Speed ​​is about 55 knots.

                All modifications of the Mk48 large-sized torpedo, modifications 1 or 2, are controlled remotely by wire, and in the final section of the trajectory of movement, using acoustic homing equipment. These torpedoes have one-way communication with the submarine, which, after launching the torpedo, receives all the data about the state of the wire and about the target detection by homing equipment. The torpedoes "Mk48", modification 3 or 4, used a telecontrol system that provides it with two-way communication with the carrier.
          2. MURANO
            MURANO 19 August 2012 11: 52
            +1
            Quote: alexdol
            You look at what you have lifted and look at the hole VERY INTERESTING form and even a dent INSIDE !!!
            This hole of the correct round shape completely refutes official conclusions

            Everything has been said about this hole in PROFESSIONAL forums for a long time. This is a technological cut made by divers.
            I will ask those who believe in a torpedo, WANTED TO COMPARE its diameter with the Mk48 caliber.
            Quote: alexdol
            But apparently it was worth it, since there are still little people like you who either don’t have brains or just don’t want to think !!!

            Unlike Delta and me, professional submariners, there are many online scholars. smile
            1. lotus04
              lotus04 19 August 2012 12: 09
              0
              Quote: MURANO
              Unlike Delta and me, professional submariners,


              Professional submariner. Have you ever changed your profile picture or something. It does not suit the Russian sailor to have an avatar depicting a famous fascist submariner.
              1. lotus04
                lotus04 19 August 2012 13: 53
                0
                Quote: lotus04
                Not to face the Russian sailor,


                Oh sorry, Ukrainian. Well then, another thing.
                1. MURANO
                  MURANO 19 August 2012 13: 57
                  +1
                  Quote: lotus04

                  Oh sorry, Ukrainian. Well then, another thing.

                  Kindergarten.
                  1. Delta
                    Delta 19 August 2012 14: 27
                    +1
                    100% kindergarten has already gone. This is from a lack of arguments. Or maybe development
              2. Delta
                Delta 19 August 2012 14: 33
                +1
                and here is the transition to avatars. Next will be the transition to nickname and nationality. There, the mat will go. Predictable behavior of the ignorant
            2. alexdol
              alexdol 19 August 2012 12: 53
              0
              MURANO UA ". This is a technological cutout made by divers"
              Ah, ah, ah, I somehow did not think about the "technological" cutout, all the more why it was made near the edge of the fracture of the boat's hull!?! And even if we admit this version with a "cutout", an obvious DENT is still visible, which, when cut, will not work!
              1. lotus04
                lotus04 19 August 2012 13: 52
                0
                Quote: alexdol
                And even if we admit this version with a "cutout", an obvious DENT is still visible, which, when cut, will not work!


                You know, I'm even tired of arguing with them. The "professionals" are immediately visible. Let everyone remain unconvinced.
                1. MURANO
                  MURANO 19 August 2012 13: 59
                  0
                  Quote: lotus04
                  You know, even tired of arguing with them

                  Cut diameters with torpedo caliber already compared? smile
                  Maybe you are somewhere special. But in marine affairs, an amateur.
              2. Delta
                Delta 19 August 2012 14: 28
                0
                dent? ok, let there be a dent. And now the question is - where did the torpedo go after this dent if it didn’t break through the solid case?)))
      2. REPA1963
        REPA1963 18 August 2012 22: 18
        +1
        I am also surprised by this.
    5. Light source
      Light source 19 August 2012 01: 06
      +3
      American submarines must be noticed, but this must be silent. Let them go half asleep not only on their shores but also on ours.
    6. vitamin ky
      vitamin ky 19 August 2012 02: 33
      +3
      Well, how do they regularly find out something Chinese, something Japanese poachers, or our brother, a Slovenian, a fenced-off man in Turkey and other countries where he was rvalsey, and now he is secretly making his way home (there’s a joke in every joke .....) laughing
  3. pribolt
    pribolt 18 August 2012 08: 43
    +3
    It is necessary to keep them in tension so that they do not bury good
  4. Apollo
    Apollo 18 August 2012 08: 49
    +7
    If the location of Russian submarines in close proximity to the US coast is an extraordinary event for the latter, then this is a common thing for Russia. It has been so, it always is!
    1. alexdol
      alexdol 22 August 2012 21: 24
      -1
      Apollon DE "It was, it is, and it will always be!"
      Why did you decide that it will always be this way? This is the first thing. And secondly: why do you excuse the harshness of the "idiots" put this ... "pluses"? Do you agree with this statement of the question? Then you are just ENEMIES of Russia !!!
  5. volcano
    volcano 18 August 2012 08: 50
    +28
    See the gopher? ......
    No.....
    Me neither.......
    But he is ...

    (from intercepted talks by the US anti-submarine defense commander and Secretary of Defense)
    1. подводник
      подводник 18 August 2012 09: 05
      +7
      volcano

      Thank you buddy for the record!

      Now the jackals will understand, for each of their PROs, we have a BOLT with reverse thread
      1. volcano
        volcano 18 August 2012 09: 26
        0
        Submariner
        Yes to health drinks
    2. lotus04
      lotus04 18 August 2012 09: 06
      +1
      Quote: volkan
      See the gopher? ......
      No.....
      Me neither.......
      But he is ...



      Something, somewhere, I already ... about this ...
      1. volcano
        volcano 18 August 2012 09: 24
        +3
        Lotus04
        Of course they did. I do not claim authorship (DMB film) wink
        1. lotus04
          lotus04 18 August 2012 10: 51
          +1
          Quote: volkan
          (DMB movie) wink


          I just remembered about this. wink

          http://topwar.ru/16908-ekspert-rossiyskiy-flot-v-10-raz-slabee-amerikanskogo.htm
          l # comment-id-483258
    3. Shulz-1955
      Shulz-1955 18 August 2012 10: 42
      -1
      It was like about the Belarusian partisans
  6. Stas57
    Stas57 18 August 2012 08: 59
    0
    After the activity of the Soviet submarine fleet came to naught, the American anti-submarine systems off the coast of the United States began to fall into a little drowsiness

    that would be a great moment to strike and end the Cold War with our victory.
    but these are only dreams so far ...
  7. oper66
    oper66 18 August 2012 09: 00
    +1
    The news is very joyful - ours have finally begun to plow the vast expanses of the oceans off the coast of our main enemy - now let the blue gringos think about the need for missile defense in Europe - let our submariners always patrol the shores of the United States and Britogomoyeks - protect them from their lawlessness. creatures will know that retaliation is inevitable in spite of any their meannesses and tricks
  8. Sailor
    Sailor 18 August 2012 09: 01
    +2
    Americans are constantly grazing with us, but we learn about this only in exceptional cases: on August 29, the US military and intelligence circles admitted that at the time of the Kursk accident there were two American submarines next to it, but denied that the cause of the disaster was a collision with one of them. The New York Times reported that both submarines were so close to the Kursk nuclear submarine that they recorded virtually everything that happened on board the Russian missile submarine. http://funeral-spb.narod.ru/necropols/serafimofskoe/tombs/kursk/kursk.html It is vital to build new anti-submarine ships.
    1. Delta
      Delta 18 August 2012 10: 28
      -1
      The Los Angeles-class GAS submarine can detect targets from 30 to 100 miles away. How close were they?
      1. Denzel13
        Denzel13 18 August 2012 14: 57
        0
        depending on what goals
        1. Delta
          Delta 18 August 2012 19: 55
          -1
          we are not talking about glass plates, but about submarines. They are at sea a sonar station and can be detected at long range (given, of course, hydrology).
    2. Skorp56
      Skorp56 23 August 2012 23: 59
      0
      Sailor,
      "The New York Times reported that both submarines were so close to the Kursk nuclear submarine that they recorded virtually everything that happened on board the Russian submarine missile carrier."

      It is appropriate to give a description of the submarines of project 971, given by N. Polmar, a prominent naval analyst of the United States, during a hearing in the committee on nat. Security of the House of Representatives of the Congress of the United States of America: “The appearance of submarines such as Akula and other Russian nuclear submarines of the third generation showed that the shipbuilders of the USSR eliminated the noise level gap faster than expected.” In 1994, it became known that this gap was completely closed.
      According to representatives of the US Navy, at operational speeds around 5-7 nodes, the noise level of Improved Akula boats, which was recorded by sonar intelligence, was lower than that of the most sophisticated atomic submarines of the United States Naval Forces Los Angeles. According to Admiral Jeremy Boorda, chief of the operations department of the US Navy, US ships were unable to accompany Akula submarines at a speed of less than 9 nodes (contact with the new Russian submarine took place in the spring of 1995 near the east coast of the United States). The advanced nuclear submarine Akula-2, according to the admiral, according to the low-noise characteristics meets the requirements put forward to the fourth-generation boats.
      http://topwar.ru/17974-atomnye-torpednye-i-mnogocelevye-podvodnye-lodki-proekt-9

      Well, you do not read American newspapers at night))).
  9. RUSmen
    RUSmen 18 August 2012 09: 03
    +1
    U, amer tantrum, we need psychologists, for this it will take N-ts billions of dollars to dig these psychologists. lol
  10. pirat1966
    pirat1966 18 August 2012 09: 13
    +18
    "But you are right - and American submarines are sailing to Russian shores for sure. The fact that they don't talk about something does not mean that it is not there." - Dear jamert writes. I can reveal a little secret, which is only in the Russian Navy - routine daily "turning of equipment". I can't say more hi But because of this very "cranking", it is extremely difficult for any vessel to come close to our shores ... So you will bring it to sin, you almost opened a military secret ... I keep quiet, but I say with confidence - you can sleep well if someone tries to "sneak up" imperceptibly ", then he will do it hell, as long as there is a Russian fleet. And do not forget: we are few, but we are in vests! smile

    PS I served as a sonar speaker, and what I’m talking about I know not by hearsay.
    1. Roman Skomorokhov
      Roman Skomorokhov 18 August 2012 09: 57
      +8
      Quote: pirat1966
      American submarines are sailing to the Russian coast for sure.


      Definitely. But here is the hitch: they can come to us in the North and East. And even then, the East is a small matter in some places, so it’s not very close and you’ll swim. And the South and the West ... forgive us, there are puddles where the nuclear submarines have nothing to do.

      And to the States you can swim from the West and East ... And that's all. South and North are simply not needed. Enough of what is. That's why piss.
      1. Delink
        Delink 18 August 2012 11: 21
        +1
        Well, it’s not for nothing that they wear diapers. They also try to think.
        1. Ortrega
          Ortrega 18 August 2012 21: 48
          0
          Quote: Delink
          Well, it’s not for nothing that they wear diapers. They also try to think.

          And they wear them up to ten years, I personally began to ask for a toilet from the age of (Mom
          told feel )
      2. basal
        basal 18 August 2012 11: 29
        +3
        Support!
        I'm afraid to lie, but I read somewhere that either 80%, or 90% of the US industry is concentrated on a fairly narrow section of coastal territories, i.e. vulnerable not only to ballistic, but also to cruise missiles. Hence the tantrum! And no missile defense system in Europe will help if they have problems with the detection of nuclear submarines on their shores.
        Well, let them torment.
        1. 53-Sciborskiy
          53-Sciborskiy 18 August 2012 17: 57
          +1
          The Russian nuclear submarine Schuka-B (according to NATO classification - “Shark”) all this time carried a complete set of long-range missiles. This high-speed and low-speed submarine, as American experts say, was built with only one purpose: to destroy American submarines equipped with ballistic missiles.
          1. REPA1963
            REPA1963 18 August 2012 22: 24
            0
            And the question is, why go ashore if long-range missiles, I’m not a submariner, but I know the laws of ballistics, missiles with nuclear weapons do not fly flooring.
            1. 53-Sciborskiy
              53-Sciborskiy 19 August 2012 08: 23
              0
              Quote: REPA1963
              And the question is, why go ashore if long-range missiles, I’m not a submariner, but I know the laws of ballistics, missiles with nuclear weapons do not fly flooring.
              The closer the target, the less chance the enemy has of finding a missile and knocking it down. PS The distance to the target is 1000 km. or 500. Is there a difference?
            2. edge
              edge 19 August 2012 09: 14
              0
              it is a positioning force. -type calmed down early
          2. Skorp56
            Skorp56 23 August 2012 23: 52
            0
            53-Sciborskiy,
            ... as American experts say ...

            What is the 971th project - http://topwar.ru/17974-atomnye-torpednye-i-mnogocelevye-podvodnye-lodki-proekt-9
            , so, apart from "only one goal - to destroy American submarines", the scope of this nuclear submarine is much wider and it runs much quieter))).
      3. jamert
        jamert 18 August 2012 11: 41
        -1
        And the South and the West ... forgive us, there are puddles where the nuclear submarines have nothing to do.


        Is the Mediterranean also a puddle?
    2. jamert
      jamert 18 August 2012 11: 40
      0
      I have no doubt in your professionalism. But the point was not to go into territorial waters, and even come closer to them. The Gulf of Mexico is also not only washing the coast of the United States. therefore I say that the American nuclear submarine in the Barents Sea should not be surprised either. And when equipping modern nuclear submarines with strategic missiles, it’s close to go ashore and there is no need.
      1. Roman Skomorokhov
        Roman Skomorokhov 18 August 2012 13: 17
        +3
        I am not a professional, alas, in this matter. just logically reasoning.

        Quote: jamert
        Is the Mediterranean also a puddle?


        No, not like the Black Sea, but there is the Bosphorus, through which not everything can pass. Of course, an underwater cruiser with ICBMs can and will pass, the clown knows ... I don’t know. But I would like not to pass.

        Quote: jamert
        The American nuclear submarines in the Barents Sea should not be surprised either.


        And no one will be surprised. Well, if not down full. They grazed through life there.

        Quote: jamert
        And when equipping modern nuclear submarines with strategic missiles, it’s close to go ashore and there is no need.


        Well, how to say ... It's one thing to launch a rocket kilometers that way with 200-300 from the target, and quite another - with 600-700. It is clear that she will fly, if that. But the time to detect it will be 2 times longer. Well, to an adequate answer. So it’s better in the old fashioned way ... point blank ... So as not to twitch.
        1. REPA1963
          REPA1963 18 August 2012 22: 27
          -2
          With a 200 km rocket flying along the "ballista", you will not hit the target, teach physics a school course.
          1. Roman Skomorokhov
            Roman Skomorokhov 18 August 2012 23: 00
            0
            You write again, or maybe learn to read the end of the sentence?
          2. basal
            basal 20 August 2012 13: 49
            +1
            With a 200 km rocket flying along the "ballista", you will not hit the target, teach physics a school course.

            Oh, here it became interesting to me. Enlighten the illiterate. You didn’t study physics according to Fursenko for an hour?

            Tell me, does the concept of an operational-tactical missile system tell you anything? Have you ever heard the names "Point", "Iskander"? Read it for general development, then tell us.
    3. Ortrega
      Ortrega 18 August 2012 21: 44
      +3
      Quote: pirat1966
      PS I served as a sonar speaker, and what I’m talking about I know not by hearsay.

      Thank you HUGE, reassured. I am proud of the Russian military.
      As Bismarck said, it’s not worth fighting the Russians, they will respond to each military trick with unpredictable stupidity.
      I always tell everyone that I was very lucky to be born in this Country!
  11. Serg_Y
    Serg_Y 18 August 2012 09: 37
    +11
    Specially they gasped for the last "Vasya was here!"
    1. Indigo
      Indigo 18 August 2012 11: 25
      +1
      ..and they told them that tanks with free oil should not be towed in tow, but this is home, to your country, forgive the guys this weakness ... smile
  12. Ruswolf
    Ruswolf 18 August 2012 09: 49
    +11
    It is necessary to enter a share with the Pentogon!
    We shine there more often
    They beat the lave from the congress and we share!
    They have money to develop anti-submarine defense
    We have on the development of new submarines
    We live together!
    And if things go, then half the weapons there can be lightened
    1. Ortrega
      Ortrega 18 August 2012 21: 52
      0
      Quote: Ruswolf
      It is necessary to enter a share with the Pentogon!
      We shine there more often
      They beat the lave from the congress and we share!
      They have money to develop anti-submarine defense
      We have on the development of new submarines
      We live together!
      And if things go, then half the weapons there can be lightened

      In Russian rollback lol
    2. lds040580
      lds040580 21 August 2012 16: 03
      0
      but I think this is happening
  13. kasper
    kasper 18 August 2012 10: 17
    +2
    Pleased with the article, let the Americans not relax.
  14. sergskak
    sergskak 18 August 2012 10: 22
    +3
    that off the coast of the United States was not the Russian "Pike", but the newspaper "duck", which many took at face value ...
    laughing Yes Yes....
  15. urchik
    urchik 18 August 2012 10: 22
    +5
    It does not matter the opinions of Americans, it is important that the Russian submarines have the ability to retaliate. This will sober up the proteges in the State Department. But the news is very pleasant indeed!
  16. Drappier
    Drappier 18 August 2012 10: 34
    0
    And under the USSR, this event was in the order of things, but here the news was not fanned.
    1. edge
      edge 19 August 2012 09: 19
      0
      after so many years of collapse and direct betrayal, it’s a balm for the soul. we chose that president again.
  17. Strategia
    Strategia 18 August 2012 10: 34
    +2
    Well, if everything is true about "Pike-B", if this is not another information game. And military service, of course, should be an everyday matter both as a form of maintaining combat readiness, and as a form of combat training, and as a form of political force ... As for whether to build aircraft carriers or submarines: you need to build for tasks arising from military -political goals. Well, and so on ...
  18. Sleptsoff
    Sleptsoff 18 August 2012 10: 41
    +5
    The idle talk from scratch, neither side has confirmed that the submarine really was.
    1. Ortrega
      Ortrega 18 August 2012 21: 56
      0
      Quote: Sleptsoff
      The idle talk from scratch, neither side has confirmed that the submarine really was.

      Yes, hell knows, ours, in principle, did not deny, the amers just cannot decide, then "yes" then "no".
    2. edge
      edge 19 August 2012 09: 22
      0
      and when and which side was confirmed about carrying out special operations on the territory of the likely enemy? in 50 years they’ll declassify, then it will be reliably known.
  19. Dictator1412
    Dictator1412 18 August 2012 10: 47
    +2
    It is very interesting to hear statistics about how many American pants went into disrepair or got into dry cleaners after visiting our glorious submariners on their shores))
    1. APASUS
      APASUS 18 August 2012 11: 33
      +1
      Quote: Dictator1412
      how many American pants fell into disrepair or got into dry cleaners after visiting our glorious submariners on their shores))

      Stop pouring here !!!
      In Soviet times, a special service existed in the Navy of the USSR that caught garbage after passing an American AUG led by an aircraft carrier.
      I can’t say what secrets they were looking for there, but I can say that garbage collected per day sometimes equaled the volume of a KAMAZ truck!
      1. vitamin ky
        vitamin ky 19 August 2012 02: 41
        +2
        serezno !!? - where does infa come from? - I'm really curious - this is not sarcasm
        1. APASUS
          APASUS 19 August 2012 09: 49
          +2
          Quote: vitamin-ky
          serezno !!? - where does infa come from? -

          There are acquaintances. All the papers were taken to the department, but any rubbish, plastic mugs, for example, after inspection, sailors stole for themselves.
          1. vitamin ky
            vitamin ky 19 August 2012 18: 27
            0
            thank you - yes, I’ve been cleared and even shown to me — you can’t post it to the Internet on the Internet, but it’s a matter of evidence crying
  20. Black Colonel
    Black Colonel 18 August 2012 10: 57
    +1
    It was necessary to leave a buoy at the place of duty with a greeting and leave the yesterday's number "Red Star".
  21. beech
    beech 18 August 2012 11: 07
    0
    good Tsatya, I liked +
  22. Delink
    Delink 18 August 2012 11: 26
    0
    Although the chatter was not confirmed, A Hole narrowed. If not for Mrs. Schneider, Panetta would nervously smoke now on the sidelines at the pier.
  23. wown
    wown 18 August 2012 11: 45
    0
    Thanks to the author for the article! wiped his nose Tanu))))
  24. Flying Dutchman
    Flying Dutchman 18 August 2012 12: 35
    -3
    When will our Navy take revenge on you for the Kursk?
    1. Delta
      Delta 18 August 2012 13: 03
      -4
      no need to talk nonsense. Americans have nothing to do with the Kursk disaster
      1. lelikas
        lelikas 18 August 2012 13: 17
        -1
        Did they tell you this?
        1. Delta
          Delta 18 August 2012 13: 19
          -1
          I tell you this
          1. smel
            smel 18 August 2012 16: 19
            0
            I agree. With Lyachin a year before his death on the bridge he said ... He told me then the reason
          2. Kshatriy
            Kshatriy 18 August 2012 16: 32
            -2
            Quote: Delta
            no need to talk nonsense. Americans have nothing to do with the Kursk disaster

            Quote: Delta
            I tell you this

            And who the hell "Froggy" documentary film stretched for a whole hour and after all, they outlined the layout quite reasonably .... Even the hole in the left side with the edges bent inward, and the diameter of the hole corresponds to the torpedo ... then .... ????
            1. Delta
              Delta 18 August 2012 17: 29
              0
              so what .. again twenty-five .... just a nuisance already on ignorance is. Well, this hole was not next to the torpedo and could not be !!! Is it really necessary to paint again everything that confirms the failure of this version and the ignorance of the French? the mere mention of the French about some tip on the dashboard that pierces the armor (or copper or some other crazy stuff) says a lot
              1. MURANO
                MURANO 18 August 2012 21: 05
                +3
                Quote: Delta
                .just annoyance already on ignorance is

                Colleague, do not take to heart.
                People are far from the topic and believe in all nonsense.
            2. Skorp56
              Skorp56 23 August 2012 21: 06
              0
              Kshatriy,
              And who the hell "Froggy" documentary film stretched for a whole hour and after all, they outlined the layout quite reasonably .... Even the hole in the left side with the edges bent inward, and the diameter of the hole corresponds to the torpedo ... then .... ????

              Here you will find answers to questions about the Kursk - http://sciencevsnonsense.narod.ru/istinnie_prichini_gibeli_apl_kursk/.
              And in what pictures are the edges of the hole visible with the edges bent inward? In the material I proposed by reference, the hole is clearly shown and then an example of a torpedo hitting the side of the vessel is given. People, you at least apply brains to what you see !!! Such a hole can leave a projectile (torpedo) that moves ... with hypersonic speed, when the metal simply evaporates from being hit. Something the probable enemy did not trace such ammunition))). And the French ... yeah ... authorities))).
              And in addition ... I was lucky to talk with one caperan who examined the boat as part of the experts ... it didn’t spread much, but the verdict was like that - the human factor ... no matter how regrettable it may sound. And the Americans are completely off topic.
          3. lelikas
            lelikas 18 August 2012 16: 49
            0
            But for some reason I do not believe you.
            1. Delta
              Delta 18 August 2012 17: 31
              -1
              believe or not - your business of course. But in order to have one’s position, one needs to somehow argue it. Otherwise, it is idle speculation, not a position. Do you have any arguments in favor of the fact that the Americans are involved (British, French, aliens)?
              1. lelikas
                lelikas 18 August 2012 19: 44
                0
                The posts were a little messed up, I answered the previous one, where did I even say a word about the torpedo ???
                For that, I very well remembered the words of Popov and Spassky during the very first viewing of underwater filming from the World - Here is a trace from a collision with a boat ,,,,
                There on the nose was stripped off a furrow ten meters of cover.
                That's all I wanted to say.
                1. Delta
                  Delta 18 August 2012 19: 51
                  -1
                  cool of course, without raising the boat, to declare in the very first days is a collision. Oh how! And the investigation is not necessary. And then the same Spassky stated another. And by the way, he said that there was a fire between the two explosions, and then he himself admitted that there were no signs of fire on the remains of the torpedoes. So I can’t trust him, this man trying to cover up his own flaws in the design of this boat. Like Popov, who needed an American trace.

                  By the way, the boat’s nose was almost gone - it was torn apart by an explosion. What torn coating could be discerned there, let it remain on their conscience.
                  1. lelikas
                    lelikas 18 August 2012 20: 31
                    +1
                    This was shown in a special issue of Vesti, live, the nose was almost whole (at least the entire upper part). In the next issue, shots were shown starting from the cutting fence and, naturally, no comments.
                    If the nose were turned around, the bulkhead of the first compartment would not have been torn off, and all the energy of the explosion went inside.
                    Pictures with a spread nose are another tale not to raise it to the surface. And if it is scattered - why re-blow it?
                    In short, we will not know anything.
                    1. Delta
                      Delta 18 August 2012 20: 49
                      0
                      I perfectly remember the entire chronology of the "rescue operation", I did not miss a single issue then. I have not seen the bow of the submarine and cannot imagine the camera angle that can capture the entire nose of a huge submarine, which showed its destruction in the darkness. The shooting was carried out in close-up, taking into account the possibilities of lighting and considerations of secrecy.

                      ON. Cherkashin, "Gone by the Abyss":
                      "... One of them commented: we are passing such and such a compartment ...
                      And suddenly - the boat is over! Imagine a chasm at a 90 degree angle. Some twisted, bent sheets stick out ... And this guy says: "The first compartment does not exist!" As if he had been sawed off or chopped off with a guillotine. "

                      The commander of the detachment of deep-sea divers Hero of Russia Anatoly Khramov:
                      "Only one thing is clear - as a result of the incident, the ammunition detonated. The first compartment simply does not exist."



                      But did they blow up the first compartment after lifting the boat? where does this information come from?
                      1. lelikas
                        lelikas 18 August 2012 23: 17
                        0
                        The fact that they blew up is not a secret in general, back in the summer of 2002, then they seemed to finish off in September - off. version for fishing safety (at a landfill closed for shipping)
                        The shooting was conducted by the World, it was coming from the side of the nose - everything was there in place.
                        Where is now at least one frame of underwater filming of the nasal extremity ???
                      2. Delta
                        Delta 18 August 2012 23: 24
                        0
                        and you personally saw the whole nose of the submarine on the screen?

                        By the way, laws are not written for fishermen - they go wherever they want, and landfills are now rarely used for their intended purpose. So the official version is quite normal. Unexploded torpedoes could theoretically remain there. And in your opinion, of course, the ends were hidden in the water ...
                      3. lelikas
                        lelikas 18 August 2012 23: 44
                        +1
                        Absolutely all, did not see, but starting from the area of ​​the bow horizontal rudders - and it was intact, not counting the "scratches."
                        they could remain after such an explosion in the form of spare parts, but not in the form of torpedoes.
                        The ends were originally in the water, but now they are not physically.
                        Initially, they promised to raise their nose later, then they picked up all the debris around, then simply destroyed, What paranoia is there, especially since the landfill is closed for shipping all the time.
                      4. Delta
                        Delta 19 August 2012 00: 20
                        0
                        to look especially for you a photo of the torpedo from the Kursk? I've seen at least one. Terribly damaged, of course, but it is clear that this is a torpedo. And the same Spassky and the same Ryazantsev talked about torpedoes, not about their spare parts, scraps.

                        Lucky you, you saw the whole (or almost all) nose intact. "Apart from a scratch ..." So let's put the divers' fables on the side ...


                        Do you even know what the explosion was? Yes, the explosion went mainly to crush the compartments, but the explosion couldn’t break out. Especially considering the weakness of the first compartment in the form of technological holes (torpedo tubes (one of them is already damaged), torpedo loading hatch)
                      5. lelikas
                        lelikas 19 August 2012 21: 35
                        0
                        Most of the answer is in the next post for MURANO, and I will repeat one snapshot of the nose and that's it.
              2. Kshatriy
                Kshatriy 18 August 2012 22: 48
                0
                Quote: Delta
                But in order to have your own position, you need to somehow argue it

                And where did you get the idea that I defended some position ??? Enlighten who with the "Kursk" to believe something .... ???? .... I just asked a question .... and pounced .. ...
                1. Delta
                  Delta 18 August 2012 22: 50
                  0
                  I personally believe Admiral Valery Ryazantsev .. Didn't you read his work about the disaster?
            2. MURANO
              MURANO 18 August 2012 21: 07
              +1
              Quote: lelikas
              But for some reason I do not believe you.

              You can be understood. The truth is often not so interesting, intriguing and exciting. But people are always more willing to believe in fairy tales.
              1. lelikas
                lelikas 19 August 2012 21: 03
                0
                Sergey, I believe in what I saw, and I also know the theory of the ship and physics.
                The very surviving torpedoes could only be in the pipes, from the rest were just the spare parts. The PC, TA and TPL pipes are designed for twice as much pressure as the bulkhead of the 1st compartment, therefore it reached almost the third. The energy of the explosion follows the path of least resistance, and if the first compartment were torn off by an explosion, the bulkhead would stand still.
                What could be simpler than a single snapshot of the nose damaged by an explosion?
                Unfortunately, I don’t believe in fairy tales for a long time, that's why on the third day I knew that they would not save anyone.
                1. Passing
                  Passing 20 August 2012 13: 49
                  0
                  Quote: lelikas
                  The energy of the explosion follows the path of least resistance, and if the first compartment were torn off by an explosion, the bulkhead would stand still.

                  Contradict yourself outside incompressible water, at a pressure of 10 atm, and inside the air 1 atm., so where will the blast wave go?
                  And it could also tear off the nose strictly along the bulkhead - the bulkhead had a "concentration" of the shock wave, in the sense that in this place the blast wave was slowed down and spent its energy, after the bulkhead was "pulled out", the strong body weakened in this place, in the sense that deformations and torn welds, respectively, from the summation of these two factors, there was a rupture of the strong body strictly along this line. The official version in this part strictly complies with the laws of physics and strength of materials.
                  1. lelikas
                    lelikas 20 August 2012 16: 01
                    0
                    If you carefully read the entire topic, then I have not contradicted myself even once.
                    If the events developed according to your scenario (which is quite realistic), a narrow transverse gap should go right under the fencing, and it wasn’t there, again the PC is surrounded by frames that will not let you tear a piece from above. In all schemes, destruction is from the middle of the first compartment (and there are no weaknesses there) - which does not fit with your theory.
                    1. Passing
                      Passing 20 August 2012 19: 06
                      +1



                      Quote: lelikas
                      the transverse gap should pass directly under the cutting guard

                      Approximately in that area, we observe an even cut - from both sides. True above and below, the picture is different. It’s clear from below, there were two more decks, crushing them to extinguish the blast wave, and from above I find it difficult to say, but there is certainly a logical explanation.
                      Quote: lelikas
                      In all schemes, destruction is from the middle of the first compartment (and there are no weaknesses there) - which does not fit with your theory.

                      Naturally, the hull began to collapse from the middle of the first compartment, because there were warheads of torpedoes, and the naturally strong hull began to collapse and fragment, but the water was not compressible, and therefore these fragments did not fly away, they could say they continued to maintain the shape of the nose of the submarine, and propped up blast wave.
                      So only twisted and tangled pieces of skin remained from the nose (the photo shows a ridged fragment of the side wall). But to raise a twisted pile of scrap metal is technically impossible, but what is the point of raising a piece by piece? We are also interested in reconstructing what was wrinkling, in what sequence, and this is only possible by examining the unstretched remains of the nose.
                      1. lelikas
                        lelikas 20 August 2012 21: 43
                        0
                        An even cut is from the saw, on the photo on the other side, the frames are bent inward, which is impossible with the explosion, it is still about a meter from the bulkhead. the hole is IMHO a trace of metal detachment during sawing, again, if it were a trace of an explosion, the edges would bend outward.
                        A logical explanation can be found for absolutely everything, but not to the fact that the sturdy casing, wrapped every 70 cm by frames and a light casing, formed fragments like a house of cards.
                        Again, if everyone who needed to know right away that there was nothing left of the nose - why did they promise to lift it, and then simply destroy it at the bottom?
    2. smel
      smel 18 August 2012 16: 18
      +4
      It’s not necessary to take revenge for Kursk. There are guilty people in our land
  25. dobry-ork
    dobry-ork 18 August 2012 12: 47
    +1
    And yet the damned NATO members are afraid of our submarines! No wonder "Pike" was dubbed "Shark"
  26. sssla
    sssla 18 August 2012 13: 08
    0
    Nice damn beat to step on the tail of the amerikos
  27. valton
    valton 18 August 2012 13: 40
    0
    GOOD FELLOWS !!!
  28. Rossmk
    Rossmk 18 August 2012 14: 20
    +2
    After all, as you know, we have only two allies who never fail ...

    More precisely three wink Do not forget about the worst and most powerful-Strategic Missile Forces

    And on the account of the incident: the United States will carry even the most implausible lies, but will not admit its blunder. But at some point, their "indestructible and mighty empire of the 21st century" will be unable not only to control some parts of the world, but will simply struggle to defend their own interests.
    1. smel
      smel 19 August 2012 06: 07
      0
      Let me remind you that the Strategic Missile Forces are part of the Armed Forces, or rather the army, as was then said
      1. Rossmk
        Rossmk 19 August 2012 14: 14
        0
        It is also true, but the Strategic Missile Forces are also based on the Navy and, in general, are a separate branch of the army.
        Here for someone like. smile
  29. Dialogue
    Dialogue 18 August 2012 14: 31
    +1
    Another newspaper duck is nothing interesting
  30. uizik
    uizik 18 August 2012 14: 40
    +1
    That’s why it’s also combat duty, in order to march off a potential enemy near the coast. So it was in the days of the Union, so it will be now! More often it is necessary to put fans to rattle weapons in place! Fear of retaliation is a guarantee of peace! Unless otherwise understood.
  31. ZARUSSIA
    ZARUSSIA 18 August 2012 15: 06
    +3
    I almost described myself with joy and pride, because we still can envy and honor our sailors !!!!!!!!!!!!!
    1. strannik595
      strannik595 18 August 2012 16: 18
      +2
      writing with pride is something new
  32. xoma58
    xoma58 18 August 2012 15: 49
    +2
    That's what the "Pike" is for so that the crucian does not doze. And I think so, there was nothing (according to the Americans), that's nice. "Pike", well, others, we need to build more.
    1. edge
      edge 19 August 2012 09: 29
      0
      there is no need, soon the Indians and Chinas will set up theirs, the amers will catch them across the oceans .. Nevertheless, Russia spins the flywheel of world progress, due to its technologies, allowing them to be copied. Amers will now have to turn and twist like crucian carp in a pan ...... and it’s easier for us, under the general noise our boats will slip
  33. strannik595
    strannik595 18 August 2012 16: 17
    +1
    sleep on Johnny ...
  34. Akuzenka
    Akuzenka 18 August 2012 16: 42
    0
    The article added mood!
  35. maxiv1979
    maxiv1979 18 August 2012 17: 36
    -7
    some nonsense, let the boat down, now its amers will drown like Kursk, and write off another 10 billion of debt
    1. Delta
      Delta 18 August 2012 17: 41
      +2
      again amers ....
      1. vitamin ky
        vitamin ky 19 August 2012 02: 48
        +1
        not again, but again, dear, I, for example, agree to believe fables - for a crime (and the death of the Kursk and Komsomolets) should someone answer this? - I’m silent about ours, and they’ll sell my mother, and here I’ll pick up amers -they used to tell a lot
        1. Delta
          Delta 19 August 2012 10: 19
          0
          well, if you agree to believe fables - believe. Then there will be no dispute)) No one will prove anything from the position of common sense
    2. Kshatriy
      Kshatriy 18 August 2012 22: 53
      +1
      Quote: maxiv1979
      and write off another 10 billion debt

      U-HA-HA .... How can I write off what is not ??? Russia Nikuya should not pin-dos-tanu!
    3. Skorp56
      Skorp56 23 August 2012 21: 16
      0
      maxiv1979,
      some nonsense, let the boat down, now its amers will drown like Kursk, and write off another 10 billion of debt

      You look at such statements and think whether those who replicate the stupidity said by someone from the yellow press have a head. What 10 billion, what debt? What kind of nonsense? Do you even imagine that for Russia 10 billion?
      Another "expert" I post a link - http://sciencevsnonsense.narod.ru/istinnie_prichini_gibeli_apl_kursk/ - memorize and show others, so as not to carry nonsense about the Americans, and even more so, writing off incomprehensible debts))).
  36. nycsson
    nycsson 18 August 2012 18: 40
    0
    And yet, was our boat there or not ?! request
    1. vitamin ky
      vitamin ky 19 August 2012 02: 56
      +1
      I believe (I want to believe) and I believe that I was and left, passing on another shift (I’d need to rest the guys) laughing
  37. suharev-52
    suharev-52 18 August 2012 19: 59
    +2
    Was there a submarine or not know those who are supposed to know. Well, ours could remain silent by the fact that there is no time to aggravate the situation. We would still have five years of calm life and intensive work on the rearmament of the army. After that, it will be possible to cast a vote. But I’m afraid they won’t give us these five years. Sincerely.
  38. tarnishes
    tarnishes 18 August 2012 22: 25
    +1
    B all the same, if the submarine was, the Americans were able to detect it, albeit in a month!
    And if you think about American submarines? And how often does news appear that Russia has discovered which submarine?

    I doubt that they stand forts quietly peacefully!
  39. ward
    ward 18 August 2012 22: 29
    0
    Well ... well, she swam well ... and they didn’t catch ... the question ... what did she do there ... if American boats catch our strategists ... then I think one of the tasks was to record the images of American submarines. .. that is, she quietly approached ... lay down on the ground and stupidly turned on the tape recorder ... and that's what characteristically looks like the information about the boat didn’t come from the naval line ... moles are sitting somewhere ...
  40. Uncle
    Uncle 18 August 2012 23: 23
    -2
    Delta. If I am not mistaken, the delta signal means: "I am badly controlled, stay away from me."
    Quote: Delta
    “The first compartment does not exist!” As if he was sawed off or chopped off by a guillotine.
    So it was also sawn off before lifting. How do you come up with why rescuers were not able to sit on comings? The curvature of the surface was small.
    1. Delta
      Delta 18 August 2012 23: 32
      +2
      in your desire to at least somehow make your opponent lower, you (before going personal) try to interpret the nickname))) no, Delta is our strategist. The famous 667project.

      You should read the quote more closely. Then it would become clear that the divers were talking about the boat before drinking the first compartment. After he drank to them there and there was nothing to do, to study something. By the way, where does the apparatus mismatch? I know the reason, but what does the first compartment do with it ???
  41. Sober
    Sober 19 August 2012 05: 29
    0
    Quote: Delta
    But with the advent of the Russian submarine in the Gulf of Mexico, there is at least one more point. The fact is that the Pentagon would be, oddly enough, even profitable if a couple of Russian "Pikes" quietly approached the American shores. The benefit may be as follows: Obama announced a reduction in the military budget, and this reduction is already beginning to become a reality. And this, after all, in the first place can hit directly on the ministry of Leon Panetta, who is unlikely to want to lose a solid share of complementary foods from the US budget. Therefore, the Russian nuclear submarine has now literally perplexed Mr. Panetta. On the one hand, he needs to justify himself, as they say, before the party and the people, saying that “there were no Russians,” and on the other hand, he must loudly declare that the Russians were there to knock out a couple of tens of billions of dollars from Obama’s fist as additional funding for anti-submarine defense, which literally gnaw through various "Pikes" and other underwater animals from Russia


    very pleased))) if he chases after the dough, he will lose his place, if he does not chase he will lose a certain amount of money))) by the way, which is bad, in a crisis, let them spend money and saw them))))
  42. Beck
    Beck 19 August 2012 09: 47
    0
    These are vague, obscure informational news and cause excitement.

    If the strike submarine was really located 300 kilometers from the American coast, then, to me, the strategy for such a maneuver is not clear. If a small reconnaissance boat approaches such a distance, then this is logical. Intelligence of enemy detection systems and all that is needed. But what is a shock boat for? Light up the joy of the enemy? She is HIT. Her weapons cover 10 kilometers. Her task is to get lost in the vast oceans. To neither hearing nor spirit. And at the right time to launch from 000, from 5, from 000 kilometers on target. Why and why should a launch be launched from 3 kilometers. So that you are immediately noticed and after the first launch, without letting you use up all the ammunition they destroyed. There is no logic.

    It would be the same if in World War II they would pull out 150 mm guns and higher into the location of the advanced trenches. Flaunting the enemy in joy.
    1. mars6791
      mars6791 20 August 2012 00: 02
      0
      Finally I read a reasonable conclusion. A plus.
    2. Skorp56
      Skorp56 23 August 2012 22: 58
      +1
      Beck,
      If a small reconnaissance boat approaches such a distance, then this is logical. Intelligence of enemy detection systems and all that is needed. But what is a shock boat for? Light up the joy of the enemy? She is HIT.

      The submarine of the 971th project was equipped with powerful strike weapons, which significantly exceeded (in terms of missile and torpedo ammunition, caliber and number of torpedo tubes) the potentials of Soviet and foreign submarines of a similar purpose. The new submarine, like the ship of the 945th project, was designed to deal with enemy naval groups and submarines. The boat can take part in special operations, carry out mine operations and conduct reconnaissance.. And reconnaissance allowed the fact that the peculiarity of the new nuclear submarine, the development of which was commissioned by the Malakhit Special Design Bureau (Leningrad), was significant noise reduction, which approximately 5 times less than the most advanced Soviet torpedo boats of the second generation. This level was supposed to be achieved through the implementation of the early developments of SLE designers in the field of increasing stealth of boats (in the SLE in the 1970s, an ultra-low-noise nuclear submarine was developed), as well as research by specialists from the Central Scientific Research Institute named after Krylova.
      In addition, during the revision (completed in 1980), the submarine received a new digital sonar system with improved characteristics, as well as an armament control system that allows the use of Granat cruise missiles. [The GRANAT cruise missile is designed to destroy enemy ground targets and has firing range up to 3km (but this does not mean at all that it cannot be released on a target located 300 km away - the approach time is much shorter). It can be equipped with a nuclear warhead with a capacity of 200 kt. The flight control of the missile at the initial stage is carried out by a passive guidance system. When approaching a target at a given range, an active homing system is activated. (http://kremalera.narod.ru/granat.htm)]
      http://topwar.ru/17974-atomnye-torpednye-i-mnogocelevye-podvodnye-lodki-proekt-9


      So the stay of this type of nuclear submarines off the US coast is more than justified))). You also lose sight of the purely psychological aspect when a nuclear submarine with such capabilities (!) Grazes off the coast and no one sees or hears it until she herself wants it))). But this is precisely how, in essence, the situation developed.
  43. Submariner
    Submariner 19 August 2012 11: 44
    0
    The fact that this is a "steamer" of 24 diplomas is unambiguous! Congratulations to Sasha Kotenkov ... so far with the completed task, and 6-8 months later with the Hero's star ... :)
  44. JackTheRipper
    JackTheRipper 19 August 2012 12: 57
    0
    "Russian submarines, which have not appeared on our shores for 15 years, now cause our concern."

    - they cause concern you see our submarines ...
  45. Polov
    Polov 19 August 2012 12: 59
    0
    Probably, if the "Pike" had been spotted earlier, it would have been destroyed and people would have died. They would become corpses, but this is their service.
    The author, at the end of the article, writes about two allies who do not fail ... What are these allies?
  46. JackTheRipper
    JackTheRipper 19 August 2012 13: 02
    0
    Quote: PoLOV
    The author, at the end of the article, writes about two allies who do not fail ... What are these allies?

    Army and Navy
  47. TOXOR
    TOXOR 19 August 2012 18: 06
    +1
    American anti-submarine systems off the coast of the United States began to fall into a half-nap. And now, even if a danger sign appears in the form of a Russian submarine on radars, this is perceived by many as just another color dream: they say that Russians cannot come to our shores so close - sleep on, Johnny and know We are close and as soon as you throw off the blanket, we will cover you and guess what)))))))) ........
  48. mars6791
    mars6791 19 August 2012 23: 58
    0
    Yes, stop playing into the hands of the American military lobby. They also played their entire performance, only for their president, and not for us Russian citizens. Yes, the American government is fools, but not to the same extent as to put its helplessness on public display. Yes, simple psychology, you don’t shout to the whole world, if Vasya Pupkin seduced your wife, don’t shout, because it’s hard for a man to admit defeat, even if it’s local, it’s not nice, unless of course I’m laughing at what our military representative says with pride and pomp, we can swim wherever we want and where we want, but we won’t tell you. Yes, swim wherever you want, it’s not safe for us for some reason from your swimming, and even for our money
    1. TOXOR
      TOXOR 20 August 2012 13: 26
      +1
      Yes, swim wherever you want, it’s not safe for us for some reason from your swimming, and even for our money
      Shit floats, and our ships go .....
  49. TOXOR
    TOXOR 20 August 2012 13: 30
    +1
    Vasya Pupkin seduced your wife, no, do not scream, because it’s hard for a man to admit defeat, even if it’s local, it’s not nice, unless of course you
    And then you have fun, it means you admit defeat, announce to everyone about Vasya and you are very pleased good
  50. dimon-media
    dimon-media 20 August 2012 21: 23
    0
    Still, they would have brought Topol-M to Cuba, chtoli .. At least mock-ups laughing I really want to look at a ragged wasp nest (Pentagon type). That would be a sight. Why, Nikita Khrushchev did this once. True, there were no layouts))))