Military Review

"The United States gives us sanctions, we give them rocket engines" - the political scientist commented on the situation

206
"The United States gives us sanctions, we give them rocket engines" - the political scientist commented on the situation

The United States will receive 2021 Russian rocket engines in 10. According to information posted on the government procurement website, the RD-180 and RD-181 engines will go to the United States.


Energomash will deliver six RD-2021 engines and four RD-180 engines to the United States in 181. An NGO, part of Roskosmos, manufactures RD-180s used on Atlas missiles and R-181 engines supplied by another American company, Orbital ATK. They are used on Antares rockets, with the help of which Cygnus cargo ships are sent to the ISS.

To date, Russia has delivered to the United States, since 1999, 116 RD-180 engines, of which 92 have already been used. RD-181 has been supplied since 2015, 22 units have been delivered in total, of which 16 have already been used.

The delivery of engines will take place against the backdrop of new US sanctions, which affected large enterprises aviation, space and other industries, including Roscosmos enterprises: the Progress Rocket and Space Center (produces Soyuz rockets) and the head scientific institute of the state corporation TsNIIMash (it includes the Mission Control Center).

As Russian journalist and political scientist Vitaly Tretyakov stated on this occasion:

The United States gives us sanctions, we give them rocket engines. Is this as a symmetrical response to US sanctions against Roscosmos? Or is it an asymmetrical answer?

- he wrote on Twitter.

On the eve, Dmitry Rogozin, the general director of Roscosmos, called the American sanctions against Russian enterprises in the rocket and space industry illegal and stupid.
206 comments
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  1. Oleg1263
    Oleg1263 23 December 2020 10: 22
    +1
    If I am not mistaken, this "Stockholm Syndrome" is called .....
    1. Machito
      Machito 23 December 2020 10: 33
      +33
      This is Roscosmos doing business. Instead of developing our space program, we constantly hear from Rogozin breakthrough plans for the century ahead and observe the Russian service of the American trampoline.
      1. Temples
        Temples 23 December 2020 11: 17
        +28
        Quote: Bearded
        we constantly hear from Rogozin

        Rogozin is a pawn in this game.

        Or do you seriously think that Rogozin makes some fundamental decisions?

        Rogozin - for public relations. Write in social networks and raise the noise.
        1. Temples
          Temples 23 December 2020 11: 21
          +32
          Comrades, the helmsmen are completely confused. They cannot understand what is happening. Again sanctions. The helmsmen are all hoping for some kind of warming and recovery.

          They (the companions at the helmsman) have enough for bread-butter-yacht. Children are provided. Grandchildren in chocolate with golden spoons in their mouths.

          And everything else is on the drum.
          1. halpat
            halpat 23 December 2020 11: 48
            +6
            Quote: Temples
            Comrades, the helmsmen are completely confused. They cannot understand what is happening. Again sanctions. The helmsmen are all hoping for some kind of warming and recovery.

            They (the companions at the helmsman) have enough for bread-butter-yacht. Children are provided. Grandchildren in chocolate with golden spoons in their mouths.

            And everything else is on the drum.

            The commander said: "we are counting on ..." and there according to the list.
            The Americans will still receive engines and will NOT pay. So there will be complete asymmetry :) - a wide and fertile field for: bewilderment, concerns of different depths and all other rubbish.
            1. military_cat
              military_cat 23 December 2020 13: 11
              +19
              From the termination of deliveries of the RD-180 now there will be nothing but joy for Musk.
              And in the foreseeable future they will end anyway, the last year of purchases is 2022.
              1. ccsr
                ccsr 23 December 2020 13: 20
                +15
                Quote: military_cat
                From the termination of deliveries of the RD-180 now there will be nothing but joy for Musk.
                And in the foreseeable future they will end anyway, the last year of purchases is 2022.

                This is how the termination of this transaction should be assessed. Much to our chagrin, we will have to stop supplying these engines, which we have mastered well, and we profit from their sale, and this is sad. People who do not understand that this is like a hen laying the golden eggs for us, in their patriotic fervor, do not at all take into account that these orders are profitable for our enterprises, and the Chinese are stepping on our heels. So I do not understand at all the jingoistic patriotism in relation to these engines - we still have to measure common sense and our dreams.
                1. Georgievic
                  Georgievic 25 December 2020 01: 42
                  0
                  And you commensurate the losses from sanctions and from the supply of these engines, and also sporting losses!
                  1. ccsr
                    ccsr 25 December 2020 13: 14
                    +6
                    Quote: Georgievic
                    And you commensurate the losses from sanctions and from the supply of these engines, and also sporting losses!

                    And you go down to earth and maybe you will understand that Russia is not the USSR, and there is a world around that lives by its own laws, and for which we are a bone in the throat. And if we do not have an advanced rocketry and nuclear industry, we will simply be smeared - however, you are unlikely to understand how this world works. So shut up sports ambitions in one place - we don't care about athletes when the cold war is on.
              2. Proxima
                Proxima 23 December 2020 14: 40
                +3
                Quote: military_cat
                From the termination of deliveries of the RD-180 now there will be nothing but joy for Musk.
                And in the foreseeable future they will end anyway, the last year of purchases is 2022.

                This "last year of purchases" from the Americans has been going on since at least 2007! fellow There have even been several court decisions prohibiting the purchase of Russian engines. All in vain, you see the Yankees really need these engines very badly.
                1. military_cat
                  military_cat 23 December 2020 15: 40
                  +5
                  The decision was one in 2014, taken on a suit by SpaceX and overturned immediately on an appeal by the US government. After 2022, the ban comes from the Pentagon. I would not have pinned special hopes.
                  1. Proxima
                    Proxima 23 December 2020 16: 11
                    +1
                    Quote: military_cat
                    After 2022, the ban comes from the Pentagon. I would not have pinned special hopes.

                    And what can happen of principle before the age of 22? Will the Americans learn how to make the RD-180? After all, they also bought a license for their production with the first engines. But they gave up this venture fifteen years ago. negative They would have lost $ 22 billion on stands alone. Or Atlases with Antares in the XNUMXnd will not fly?
                    1. military_cat
                      military_cat 23 December 2020 16: 25
                      +5
                      Quote: Proxima
                      Or Atlases with Antares in the 22nd will not fly?
                      Will not be available after stocks run out. They no longer enter into contracts for their launches. But they have already concluded on the Vulcan, which is being made to replace Atlas V (no, ULA does not make engines to replace the RD-180, but a new rocket to replace the previous one, made for these engines).
                    2. Vadim237
                      Vadim237 23 December 2020 17: 21
                      +5
                      BE 4 engines will come to replace ours.
              3. bk316
                bk316 24 December 2020 12: 30
                +3
                And in the foreseeable future they will end anyway, the last year of purchases is 2022.

                Well, that's how it goes, but in principle you are right. People are infinitely far from rocket science do not understand, that supplying obsolete engines at a low cost is the best way to contain the development of American rocketry. Unfortunately, the US authorities also realized this.
                1. military_cat
                  military_cat 25 December 2020 16: 39
                  +1
                  I'm not ready to agree. Until recently, the RD-180 (more precisely, the RD-170 family) were literally the most advanced liquid-propellant rocket engines ever created, and there were no more advanced engines, not because there were no people willing to make them, but because they could not.
                  1. bk316
                    bk316 25 December 2020 16: 40
                    0
                    until recently were literally the most advanced rocket engines ever created,

                    Well, now that is, they and we. laughing
                    Well, you must understand that when you are sold an engine for the development of an analogue for which you will have to spend billions, and sell at a price significantly cheaper than which you will never be able to release yours - THIS IS THE STRONGEST DEMOTIVATION FACTOR.
                    1. military_cat
                      military_cat 25 December 2020 16: 41
                      0
                      They have, and we still have nothing more perfect than the RD-170 family.
                      1. bk316
                        bk316 25 December 2020 16: 46
                        0
                        About families it is necessary to be a specialist to understand, otherwise it will turn out that the Su-57 is a modernized 35. But the fact is that the new 171MV was tested.
                      2. military_cat
                        military_cat 25 December 2020 16: 54
                        0
                        RD-171MV has no advantages for, let's say, "consumer", its characteristics do not differ, as far as I remember, in any way from RD-170. (Another 171 have fewer degrees of freedom of thrust deflection in order to reduce the cost.)

                        It is more technologically advanced, but this is only important for production. New technologies reduce manufacturing costs. For the "consumer" only the purchase price is important, and if he received a new RD-170MV instead of the RD-171 (171), but at the same price, nothing would change for him at all, costs here are a problem only for the manufacturer.
          2. slipped
            slipped 23 December 2020 14: 34
            +1
            Quote: Halpat
            The Americans will still receive engines and will NOT pay.


            Everything has already been paid for. We received over a billion. laughing Now we carry out contract deliveries.
            1. halpat
              halpat 23 December 2020 15: 12
              -1
              Quote: slipped
              Quote: Halpat
              The Americans will still receive engines and will NOT pay.


              Everything has already been paid for. We received over a billion. laughing Now we carry out contract deliveries.

              If paid, then you can bet.
              However, remembering all sorts of mistrals, it was possible to suspend smile until the circumstances are clarified.
              Musk may be delighted, but there won't be much (instant) sense of his joy. This is a no brainer.
              By the way, I happened to get acquainted with Tesla products here. Model 3 and H.
              Everything is in the best American traditions.
              1. First impression - WOW !! they go great, the interior seems to be excellent, everything is unusual, advanced and generally somewhere in the far future.
              Charging is free on Tesla superchargers. And them to blue ass in Europe.
              2. And then, after the first pink saliva, consideration begins.
              The assembly of the iron is poor (welding, fitting parts to each other). Well, this is traditionally an American way-blooper.
              The wiring is barely insulated, which is impossible to see on either a Merce or an Audi / Volkswagen / Volvo / Toyota. Even the French are better.
              And free charging, in fact, is just a promotion from Tesla, a lure.
              And when this action ends - everyone will pay in full dollar / euro / yuan / ruble and there will be nowhere to go.

              So Musk is like that :)) American to the bone :) how else his rockets fly - amazing.
              wink
              1. zlinn
                zlinn 23 December 2020 16: 55
                +2
                > Musk may be delighted, but there won't be much (instant) sense of his joy. This is a no brainer.
                of course, joy will give an instant effect, Musk can serve all withdrawal requests anyway, otherwise he will not have to fight for orders
        2. Rubi0
          Rubi0 23 December 2020 11: 56
          +6
          And in principle they are doing the right thing. If engines can be sold for currency and provide bread and butter for the workers, then this should be done. Why do you want to live in a swallow closed from everyone is not clear
          1. Sergey39
            Sergey39 23 December 2020 12: 19
            -1
            Quote: Rubi0
            And in principle they are doing the right thing.

            Let them continue to be dependent on us, at least partially.
          2. Vladimir Mashkov
            Vladimir Mashkov 23 December 2020 12: 38
            +5
            The question is complex. It cannot be solved unambiguously in a Sharik way. Yes, the Americans are imposing sanctions on Russia. Yes, trade under sanctions with sanctions is like the trade of Americans with Germany in World War II.

            But you need to develop and increase the production of engines, pay wages to the people who produce them! And to whom to sell engines if China flies on its own, and Ceylon, Sudan and Burkina Faso do not need them? The circle of buyers is very limited!

            Maybe those who say that by selling are right while The United States, Russia, thereby delaying their import substitution and development, and you can stop the supply of engines in necessary moment?

            And, of course, it is imperative to respond to sanctions. Как - a question.
            1. Narak-zempo
              Narak-zempo 23 December 2020 15: 30
              -6
              Quote: Vladimir Mashkov
              And, of course, it is imperative to respond to sanctions. How is the question.

              Yes, not a question in the presence of political will and spiritual bonds.
              "Vanguards", "Poseidons", "Daggers", "Calibers", etc.
              1. Vladimir Mashkov
                Vladimir Mashkov 23 December 2020 16: 00
                +1
                Are you going to fight? Would you like to send yourself or others?
            2. Nyrobsky
              Nyrobsky 23 December 2020 19: 13
              +11
              Quote: Vladimir Mashkov
              And, of course, it is imperative to respond to sanctions. How is the question.

              If the sales of their Procter and Gable, Mr.Properties, Coca-Cola and Pepsi-Cola with McDonald's were at least half-stifled, then it would not be bad for a start. They would do with their own detergents, lemonade and pasties with dumplings, which is much healthier.
              1. Antidote
                Antidote 24 December 2020 07: 48
                0
                Is someone forcing you to buy Coca-Cola? Blink twice, if so, give a sign.
                1. Nyrobsky
                  Nyrobsky 24 December 2020 10: 59
                  +1
                  Quote: Antidote
                  Is someone forcing you to buy Coca-Cola? Blink twice, if so, give a sign.
                  Do not confuse the philistine with the state.
                  1. Antidote
                    Antidote 24 December 2020 12: 05
                    0
                    And what is in state Coca-Cola?
                    1. Nyrobsky
                      Nyrobsky 24 December 2020 12: 13
                      +1
                      Quote: Antidote
                      And what is in state Coca-Cola?

                      The same as in the common rocket engine.
                      American business does not have a weak lobby in Congress, and therefore, incurring losses due to retaliatory measures, can push through restrictions on the application of sanctions. The state is putting pressure on business, business is putting pressure on its politicians - a working formula. BUT! Our state is somehow too "timid" to apply sanctions against American business, and as long as the interests of their business in the Russian meadow do not suffer, the United States will continue to slap these sanctions like hot cakes.
      2. Alex777
        Alex777 23 December 2020 11: 22
        +4
        And Rogozin can't do anything else. He's a journalist.
        They were going to shoot it in the fall, but the interested parties fought among themselves.
        And GDP said - not up to you. If you can't agree - let this one sit on.
        It's a pity ... Everything that Rogozin touches - falls apart, IMHO.
        1. Temples
          Temples 23 December 2020 11: 27
          +5
          Rogozin has been there for only two years.
          He did not decide to sell these engines.
          And it is not for him to make the decision to cancel sales.

          His role is the beholder.
          Can talk about trampolines.
          Like Psaki in Roskosmos.

          Someone wise put him in this position.
          The entire negative population falls on Rogozin.
          Rogozin on the drum.
          He understands that "everything is stolen before us."



          1. Alex777
            Alex777 23 December 2020 11: 30
            0
            Rogozin has been there for only two years.

            How did he end up there?
            When I was Vice Premier, I was in charge.
            The construction of the East is its jambs.
            1. Temples
              Temples 23 December 2020 11: 35
              -4
              Quote: Alex777
              When I was Vice Premier, I was in charge.
              Construction of the East - its jambs.

              Eastern is acting.
              The start of the Union is working.
              Hangars start in operation.

              As an observer, he worked perfectly.
              All the noise was his doing.
              As a result, the contractors were changed.

              The money went in the "right" streams to the "right" builders.

              And the population (you too) come off on Rogozin, and the real participants in the process are in the shadows.

              I will say it again - a wise decision.
              Who could it be? winked laughing
              1. Alex777
                Alex777 23 December 2020 11: 51
                -2
                As an observer, he worked perfectly.
                All the noise was his doing.
                As a result, the contractors were changed.

                Are you related to the East?
                Or did you draw conclusions based on the Internet?

                The money went in the "right" streams to the "right" builders.

                And something prevented you from immediately doing so? wink
        2. slipped
          slipped 23 December 2020 14: 36
          -1
          Quote: Alex777
          Were going to take it off in the fall


          Fake. laughing
          1. Alex777
            Alex777 23 December 2020 15: 49
            -2
            No, not a fake. First-hand information. laughing
            1. slipped
              slipped 23 December 2020 15: 50
              -1
              Quote: Alex777
              No, not a fake. laughing


              Give your proof. laughing Who was going to shoot Rogozin there. Which is put to his post by Putin himself. lol And the president is not going to shoot it. laughing
              1. Alex777
                Alex777 23 December 2020 15: 53
                -5
                Where there is proof, you will not be allowed there. laughing
                And I don't owe you anything.
                Believe it or not. wink
                1. slipped
                  slipped 23 December 2020 15: 53
                  +1
                  Quote: Alex777
                  Where there is proof, you will not be allowed there. laughing
                  And I don't owe you anything.
                  Believe it or not. wink


                  I do not believe laughing
                  1. Alex777
                    Alex777 23 December 2020 15: 55
                    -1
                    Your right. Life will show everything. laughing
                    1. slipped
                      slipped 23 December 2020 15: 56
                      -1
                      Quote: Alex777
                      Your right. Life will show everything. laughing


                      It reminded me of one fact, it is true that Mosfilm was mentioned and some ice and hurricanes. laughing
                    2. Alex777
                      Alex777 23 December 2020 16: 33
                      0
                      Based on your comments, I got the impression that you work in one of the structures of Roskosmos.
                      Did I understand you correctly that you consider Rogozin a useful and effective leader? hi
                    3. slipped
                      slipped 23 December 2020 17: 18
                      +2
                      Quote: Alex777
                      Did I understand you correctly that you consider Rogozin a useful and effective leader? hi


                      I think it's not worth spreading fakes. laughing
                    4. Alex777
                      Alex777 23 December 2020 20: 33
                      -2
                      Record answer Dmitry Olegovich!
                      I did not immediately recognize you in makeup. laughing
                    5. slipped
                      slipped 23 December 2020 21: 39
                      -1
                      Quote: Alex777
                      I did not immediately recognize you in makeup. laughing


                      You are mistaken. This is Putin personally.
                    6. Alex777
                      Alex777 23 December 2020 21: 40
                      -1
                      It's not good to cheat. wink
                    7. slipped
                      slipped 23 December 2020 21: 41
                      0
                      Quote: Alex777
                      It's not good to cheat. wink


                      It's not good to flog nonsense.
  • bk316
    bk316 24 December 2020 12: 33
    0
    Fake.

    Not just a fake chat.
    I do not like balabols. am
  • iouris
    iouris 23 December 2020 14: 33
    -1
    Quote: Temples
    Rogozin - for public relations. Write in social networks and raise the noise.

    This is probably why a case was opened against Safronov (and sho would not get underfoot).
  • mark2
    mark2 23 December 2020 18: 52
    0
    Do you personally care? What inferiority complex do you have? Roscosmos makes money. Or maybe you will buy RD 180 from NGOs for your sofa?
  • paul3390
    paul3390 23 December 2020 10: 43
    +13
    No, just as the classic said - for money the bourgeois will even sell you a rope on which you hang it ..
    1. Svarog
      Svarog 23 December 2020 10: 55
      +7
      Quote: paul3390
      where you hang it ..

      Rather, he will hang you laughing
      1. paul3390
        paul3390 23 December 2020 10: 59
        +8
        They said that in the corner of the office stands magnificently
        a scarecrow of an old friend of Christobal's
        Hosevich, SS Standartenfuehrer, in full dress uniform,
        with monocle, dagger, iron cross, oak leaves
        and other personal belongings. The Junta was an excellent taxidermist.
        The Standartenfuehrer, according to Kristobal Hozevich, is also.
        But Cristobal Hozevich made it earlier ..



        You see - I believe in the inevitability of the final victory of communism on the entire planet ... wink Therefore - who will hang whom for me the question does not arise. bully
        1. Civil
          Civil 23 December 2020 11: 05
          +3
          Painfully, money is needed ... what can you do, you can't pay your salary with patriotism, there is no such bill.
        2. Esoteric
          Esoteric 23 December 2020 11: 44
          +1
          God forbid from Chinese-style communism, with an electronic slave collar. Although the Chinese have a slavish mentality, they probably even like it. Hail Mao, or what is their "greatest leader" now, I don't follow.
          In the DPRK, there, the All-Father ate ryahu, the whole is shiny. And his slaves are lean, for a feast for the eyes. How many officially approved hairstyles are there? In hairdressing salons, their list weighs, under the portrait of the "beloved leader."
          1. paul3390
            paul3390 23 December 2020 11: 48
            +8
            Do not worry, you will be saved. Unfortunately, you are guaranteed feudal capitalism, with the same electronic slave collar.
            1. Esoteric
              Esoteric 23 December 2020 11: 53
              -3
              But whatever this happens, it is necessary to reject all these "isms" and build an ordinary civil society. That there would be no leaders, that would not be served, but there were citizens. Comrades, if you like, but in the original sense of the word, and not distorted by communist ideology.
              1. paul3390
                paul3390 23 December 2020 11: 56
                +8
                Alas - a society without ideology is impossible, no matter how our top leaders do not trend on this topic. If you do not profess your ideology, it means that someone else is being imposed on you .. That we now see in all its glory .. With all that it implies.
          2. Stas Sv
            Stas Sv 23 December 2020 15: 19
            +1
            What, point bench press when they put up against the wall for theft?
        3. Bourgeois 1963
          Bourgeois 1963 23 December 2020 18: 59
          0
          You see, I believe in the inevitability of the final victory of communism on the entire planet ... wink Therefore, the question does not arise for me who will hang whom. bully

          You are right, communism will surely come, however, when it will happen on the entire planet is unknown. But you can get acquainted in detail with the lands where this will happen in the first place, even tomorrow. However, as a person who has come this way, I advise you to go to it in the second half of April. First, spring. Secondly, by that time, the bulk of the population of countries going to build communism will have already been vaccinated against the virus. The road is quite simple, get behind the wheel of a car, and from St. Petersburg you go to Finland, then to Norway, go down to Sweden, and from there you move to Denmark. So you will visit four countries of really developed socialism. And most importantly, take your time. Breathe in the air of the future communism deeply. And then the journey of 4500 kilometers will take you about a couple of weeks. True, having visited these world hotbeds of communism, I did not notice that someone was trying to hang someone to build a bright beggar.
          1. paul3390
            paul3390 23 December 2020 19: 45
            +3
            Nonsense. This is just a consequence of the existence of the USSR. Now he is gone - in the coming years I will squeeze your vaunted Scandinavians. For the bourgeois will never pay more than the minimum possible without being forced.

            And then - Scandinavia is obviously not an indicator. Small countries with a small population, practically not destroyed during the world wars, but very successfully settled on serving large neighbors .. In a small country, it is generally much more difficult to steal and exploit fellow citizens, it was not for nothing that in ancient times it was rightly believed that true democracy and order are possible only in policies. And as soon as the polis outgrows its borders, the same Rome, for example, as all virtues immediately fall into decay.

            But I think you will still have a chance to see how the vaunted bourgeois social sphere collapses in the countries so adored by you. However, like many others, you clearly confuse tourism with emigration. A beautiful wrapper does not mean that everything inside is straight too awkward .. That has been confirmed more than once by the Finns with whom I have worked with ..
    2. iouris
      iouris 23 December 2020 14: 34
      +2
      Quote: paul3390
      for money, the bourgeois will even sell you the rope on which you hang it ..

      But first he will sell it and hang you. And she will have to buy.
  • Doccor18
    Doccor18 23 December 2020 10: 53
    +12
    Quote: oleg1263
    If I am not mistaken, this "Stockholm Syndrome" is called .....

    This is called "capitalism". There is no homeland, there are no laws, no principles and morals, there is nothing personal, but there is profit or income. Everything else is husk. This is capitalism in all its glory ...
    1. Rusticolus
      Rusticolus 23 December 2020 11: 00
      +15
      Capitalism. Moreover, on both sides. Amery is the same, sanctions are sanctions, and the babos of Russia bash. There are sanctions here, not sanctions here, but here they wrap the fish.
      1. Doccor18
        Doccor18 23 December 2020 11: 14
        +4
        Nothing personal just business...
        30 years ago and in a nightmare I could not imagine that all this will touch us ...
        1. Snail N9
          Snail N9 23 December 2020 11: 39
          +4
          The story with the so-called "our" family of RD-180 engines is very "interesting". Everyone, for some reason, thinks that he is, as it were, "ours", but in fact, through cunning designs and re-registrations he became "not ours", and Energomash is simply engaged in the production and supply of engines, according to a contract with the United States, and very cheap considering Russian salaries and costs compared to the same in the United States. Why would the United States refuse such a lucrative contract? And "Energomash" is bound by contractual obligations, which imply the shipment of finished products on time and fines for non-fulfillment ... The story with "titanium" is more interesting. I remember that they called here to stop supplying titanium to American companies in response to the sanctions ... So, the Americans decided to relieve those who called for any action in this regard and so that they would not suffer with the adoption of such a "fateful" decision for the American aircraft industry, now they (the Americans) themselves stop purchasing Russian titanium. I don’t understand how to count it now - is it "zrada", then is it "peremoga"? wink
          1. Doccor18
            Doccor18 23 December 2020 11: 51
            +4
            themselves stop purchasing Russian titanium. I don’t understand how to count it now - is it "zrada", then is it "peremoga"? 

            "Suddenly".
            When we wrote about this possibility earlier, we got a fair amount of disadvantages, because "our titanium is irreplaceable, almost no one has such processing technologies .....".
            As a result, it turns out that there are fewer and fewer ways to put pressure on the adjacent side. ICBMs and SSBNs .. but these are all weapons. What else..?
            1. Dzerjinskiy56
              Dzerjinskiy56 23 December 2020 13: 08
              -5
              Americans bought titanium, so they will!
          2. Dzerjinskiy56
            Dzerjinskiy56 23 December 2020 13: 07
            0
            [quote] [/ quote] At the expense of titanium, a colleague there is more complicated. “The press service of VSMPO-Avisma told RBC that US sanctions will not affect the production process in any way. “In the case of using American technologies, the consent of the US authorities is required, but at VSMPO-Avisma, only Russian technologies are used in titanium production, and mostly these are our own developments, so there is no need to agree on anything,” the company said.
            1. Pilat2009
              Pilat2009 24 December 2020 13: 11
              0
              Quote: Dzerjinskiy56
              At the expense of titanium, a colleague is more complicated there. “The press service of VSMPO-Avisma told RBC that US sanctions will not affect the production process in any way. “In the case of using American technologies, the consent of the US authorities is required, but at VSMPO-Avisma, only Russian technologies are used in titanium production, and mostly these are our own developments, so there is no need to agree on anything,” the company said.

              Are there also only Russian machines used? Software? Sapra? Operating systems?
              1. Dzerjinskiy56
                Dzerjinskiy56 24 December 2020 14: 20
                0
                I honestly don't know what machines and software are used there. I quoted of the company's comment on the sanctions. The Boeing company also says that there is nothing wrong with this sanction (how they bought it and will be). The quotes of the company did not fall.
      2. Starover_Z
        Starover_Z 23 December 2020 11: 33
        +3
        Quote: Rusticolus
        Capitalism. Moreover, on both sides. Amery is the same, sanctions are sanctions, and the babos of Russia bash. There are sanctions here, not sanctions here, but here they wrap the fish.

        And besides, the contracts for the supply of engines were probably mostly from the other side of the ocean, and there are lawyers with heads, not from Gazprom (where fines are now paid to all declaring countries) and the fines are definitely considerable, it is cheaper to assemble engines and send them to "partners"!
        1. rjpthju
          rjpthju 23 December 2020 11: 55
          +4
          Half of Gazprom, including the management, are Westerners. Have acquired the citizenship of the Russian Federation and sit, receive bonuses. Why do you think we are all losing courts to Ukrainians? This is how contracts are drawn up, such lawyers. On good terms, this is called sabotage, sabotage, whatever you want. But this is not the business of ordinary citizens, this is the business of the FSB. And so in everything ... Including aviation, space. What can you do - the fifth column in action. On a national scale - in the country's leadership, the Duma, the Senate.
          1. Starover_Z
            Starover_Z 23 December 2020 12: 07
            +3
            I think so for a long time
            This is how contracts are drawn up, such lawyers.

            That's for sure
            On good terms, this is called sabotage, sabotage, whatever you want. But this is not the business of ordinary citizens, this is the business of the FSB.

            On a national scale - in the country's leadership, the Duma, the Senate.

            And for this they will soon be drawn as for slander ...
            1. rjpthju
              rjpthju 23 December 2020 13: 42
              +3
              And what can you call the citizens of another country or with a residence permit adopting laws in the Duma and Senate? This is the fifth column. From the recent past. What was the name of the Volga Germans in the USSR during the Second World War? And they were interned. Although I disagree with that.
            2. rjpthju
              rjpthju 23 December 2020 14: 14
              0
              See: https://gems-world.com/info/deputaty-gosdumy-s-dvojnym-grazhdanstvom-spisok/
          2. Alf
            Alf 23 December 2020 19: 58
            +1
            Quote: rjpthju
            On a national scale - in the country's leadership, the Duma, the Senate.

            You tactfully kept silent about the Most Important ...
  • Per se.
    Per se. 23 December 2020 12: 13
    +2
    Quote: oleg1263
    this "Stockholm Syndrome" is called
    It will be easier - "partner" sadomasochism. I don’t even want to talk about "trampoline" and "tomatoes". Who is under whom, in this litmus is our Central Bank, with the IMF and the Fed. For the rest, as they say, keep your money in foreign banks if you have any ...
  • RUSS
    RUSS 23 December 2020 14: 12
    -2
    Quote: oleg1263
    If I am not mistaken, this "Stockholm Syndrome" is called .....

    Most likely, the contract for the supply of engines was signed before the sanctions, as well as the planned flights of astronauts in our Unions, by the way, in the Unions, astronauts in 2021 are supposed to fly on them for the last time, then on Dragons, etc.
  • Nuclear_winter
    Nuclear_winter 23 December 2020 10: 24
    +15
    So this is our sanctions, as long as we supply them with engines, they will not make theirs
    1. dorz
      dorz 23 December 2020 10: 48
      +6
      Rogozin called American sanctions against Russian enterprises in the rocket and space industry illegal and stupid.

      Also, the abandonment of imported software has been postponed until 2025 for not having your own. All our independence and sovereignty are in full view. What to do? Better control over spending and misuse of the budget.


      sad
      1. Starover_Z
        Starover_Z 23 December 2020 13: 47
        +1

        sad[/ Quote]
        Well, to this you can only write - "... And we do not dream about the roar of the cosmodrome ..."
        1. slipped
          slipped 23 December 2020 14: 40
          +1
          Quote: Starover_Z
          Well, to this you can only write - "... And we do not dream about the roar of the cosmodrome ..."


          When the arguments run out, the photo-toads appear. laughing
          1. Starover_Z
            Starover_Z 23 December 2020 14: 58
            +1
            Quote: slipped
            When the arguments run out, the photo-toads appear.

            When there will be facts and reports in the media, and not the predictions of the current Nastradamus, then there will be no photojab!
            1. slipped
              slipped 23 December 2020 15: 00
              -3
              Quote: Starover_Z
              When there will be facts and reports in the media, and not the predictions of the current Nastradamus, then there will be no photojab!


              Strange, don't you believe that RD-180 and RD-181 engines are being sold to Americans? laughing The same message is just about that. Fact and reportage. And fotozhaba - she is from powerlessness. Moral impotence. Like in kindergarten "and don't pee in my potty" laughing
              1. Starover_Z
                Starover_Z 23 December 2020 15: 35
                +1
                Quote: slipped
                Strange, don't you believe that RD-180 and RD-181 engines are being sold to Americans?

                I meant the success of the Russian space industry, not its market representatives!
                The factories are working, the engines are being manufactured, and where are the rockets for them, where are the real plans for the space industry?
                1. slipped
                  slipped 23 December 2020 15: 45
                  0
                  Quote: Starover_Z
                  I meant the success of the Russian space industry!


                  What's wrong with our successes? This year we have already had 16 successful launches of satellites for various purposes, both domestic and foreign commercial. Here's another commercial on the nose.

                  Quote: Starover_Z
                  The factories are working, the engines are being manufactured, and where are the rockets for them, where are the real plans for the space industry?


                  Can I tell you what we are planning next year?

                  1. As before, we will launch manned and cargo spacecraft on the ISS, of the interesting - there will be the first commercial manned spacecraft.
                  2. Cluster launches of foreign and domestic small spacecraft will continue.
                  3. Several new spacecraft of domestic production are being prepared for launch at once, including a new spacecraft with AFAR, a new Arctic satellite, a heavy module of a space station and a new junction.
                  4. The launch of the AMS Luna-25 will begin our Lunar program.
                  5. Also, tests of the "Angara" spacecraft with new upper stages will be continued.
      2. Alf
        Alf 23 December 2020 20: 01
        +2
        Quote: dorz
        Also, the abandonment of imported software has been postponed until 2025 for not having its own.

        Why not create one? How much money has already been "mastered" for this, but there are no results. But one character, which some here are scared to shit, believes that
        1. sifgame
          sifgame 24 December 2020 11: 21
          +1
          Well, the character is reasonably afraid of this, so you would have already confessed to terrorism, working for British intelligence and an attempt on the character's life. What exactly is not difficult to guess.
    2. Doccor18
      Doccor18 23 December 2020 11: 41
      +4
      The emergence of the Progress and TsNIIMash sanctions list only indicates that the United States still intends to abandon cooperation on the ISS with Russia. If not now, then in the near future. And this, one might say, is the only joint program. The sale of rocket engines has not yet been phased out, but reduced. The paid delivery of Americans to the ISS has been completed, they can carry out it on their own. The United States began to consider the possibility of autonomous work on the ISS, without Roskosmos. Now Russia, participating in the ISS, bears only 10% of the costs of maintaining the station. Most of the funds are invested by the United States, and without their financing the project would have to be curtailed "yesterday." And our country gave most of its sum not in money, but in "barter", that is, dispatch of cargo ships with fuel, water, oxygen and manned flights ...
      The question is when the Americans will have a worthy competitor to our engine, where, how and with whom will Russia develop the space program?
      1. rjpthju
        rjpthju 23 December 2020 14: 20
        -1
        hmm ... So they have it. It is called RD-180. Our development, our manufacture, and the patent belongs to the USA. Bad luck - they can't make it.
      2. slipped
        slipped 23 December 2020 14: 51
        -1
        Quote: Doccor18
        The emergence of the Progress and TsNIIMash sanctions list only indicates that the United States still intends to abandon cooperation on the ISS with Russia.


        It was their stupid Chamber of Commerce who rolled out the sanctions. It has nothing to do with astronautics. They will now write an additional piece of paper in each case.

        Quote: Doccor18
        If not now, then in the near future. And this, one might say, is the only joint program.


        This is impossible without flooding the ISS. And this process is scheduled for 2024 now.

        Quote: Doccor18
        The sale of rocket engines has not yet been phased out, but reduced.


        We are fulfilling the second contract. Everything has already been paid for.

        Quote: Doccor18
        The paid delivery of Americans to the ISS has been completed, they can carry out it on their own. The United States began to consider the possibility of autonomous work on the ISS, without Roskosmos.


        It's impossible. AS and RS ISS - a single whole.

        Quote: Doccor18
        Now Russia, participating in the ISS, bears only 10% of the costs of maintaining the station.


        Wrong. Read the ISS agreement, where all contributions are clearly described.

        Quote: Doccor18
        Most of the funds are invested by the United States, and without their funding, the project would have to be curtailed "yesterday." And our country gave most of its sum not in money, but in "barter", that is, dispatch of cargo ships with fuel, water, oxygen and manned flights ...


        It was possible not to start the project at all. lol According to your logic.

        Quote: Doccor18
        The question is when the Americans will have a worthy competitor to our engine, where, how and with whom will Russia develop the space program?


        Answer. Russia is now cooperating with many countries on space issues. Today, another Soyuz-2 was rolled out at the Kuru GCC:

  • Blackmokona
    Blackmokona 23 December 2020 10: 25
    -1
    R-181 engines supplied by another American company - Orbital ATK.

    The ATK Orbital no longer exists, they were devoured by Northrop.
    Orbital ATK Inc. Is a former American aerospace and defense company. Founded in 2015 through the merger of Orbital Sciences Corporation and Aerospace Alliant Techsystems. Sold to Northrop Grumman Corporation for $ 2018 billion in 9,2, where it became part of the newly created division of Northrop Grumman Innovation Systems
  • Vladimir_2U
    Vladimir_2U 23 December 2020 10: 26
    +3
    On the eve, Dmitry Rogozin, the general director of Roscosmos, called the American sanctions against Russian enterprises in the rocket and space industry illegal and stupid.
    Well, he is all competent and very smart, he answers asymmetrically, yes.
  • APASUS
    APASUS 23 December 2020 10: 26
    +10
    And that we are surprised, nothing personal, pure grandmother! I'm not surprised, we also supply Ukraine with diesel fuel, spare parts for military equipment (through an intermediary, of course, but everyone understands everything) .And we drive uranium for nuclear power plants to the Americans, take their cosmonauts to the ISS, and they help us a lot, especially in aircraft construction
    1. Uncle lee
      Uncle lee 23 December 2020 10: 34
      +3
      Quote: APASUS
      pure dough

      Nothing personal......
    2. 72jora72
      72jora72 23 December 2020 11: 02
      +7
      And that we are surprised, nothing personal, pure grandmother!
      Well, we will not sell our engines to the damned amers, God bless him ......... And the Energomash team will you personally feed and pay salaries, and will you give money to manufacture the RD-191? RD-180 engines in Russia don't go anywhere, they are only exported. Yes, and for a snack, the rights to the RD-180 LPRE belong to Pratt & Whitney, how did it happen, and I want to hear a clear answer from the government to this question .........
      1. APASUS
        APASUS 23 December 2020 11: 55
        +1
        Quote: 72jora72
        Well, we will not sell our engines to the damned amers, God bless him ......... And the Energomash collective you will personally feed and pay salaries, and give money for manufacturing

        If a country, choosing between war and shame, chooses shame, it gets both war and shame
        - Winston Churchill,

        That's why they respected the USSR, and now any Tribalt can wipe their feet about us, I'm not talking about Ukraine, Georgia and others
  • Rurikovich
    Rurikovich 23 December 2020 10: 27
    +2
    Ayayay ... wassat But we are so honest that we do not break contracts. They will spread rot, but we will fulfill our obligations. So what if the "partners" do not fulfill their own (disposal of chemical weapons) ... We're not like that request fool
    Sarcasm
    1. grandfather_Kostya
      grandfather_Kostya 23 December 2020 10: 35
      +3
      While the emission of the ruble for internal purposes depends on foreign exchange earnings, this will continue ...
  • maksbazhin
    maksbazhin 23 December 2020 10: 30
    +3
    Sanctions are a blessing: officials have more problems - less money there, more work in the country, well, there are difficulties with individual components, and as for figs, we will slowly solve it. And the engines are real money, the same plus. Well, we will not sell, the Americans will not be sad, but our manufacturer will remain without work. It's better to sell engines than gas.
    1. Nazar
      Nazar 23 December 2020 11: 15
      +1
      maksbazhin - How did you write - "sanctions are good" -? Well, yes, well, yes, especially in our aircraft industry, - Iran wanted to buy a bunch of Superjets, but in no way - sanctions, MC21 due to sanctions (composites) were detained for two years, and now new sanctions, and Irkut fell under them, and MC21 half of imported components, now how many years will its release be delayed? They stop buying our weapons because of the sanctions, is this also a "blessing" and "more work in the country"?
      1. Nastia makarova
        Nastia makarova 23 December 2020 12: 00
        -4
        sanctions would have come in any case, especially in aircraft construction
        1. RUSS
          RUSS 23 December 2020 14: 14
          -3
          Quote: Nastia Makarova
          sanctions would have come in any case, especially in aircraft construction

          Why did it happen?
          1. Nastia makarova
            Nastia makarova 23 December 2020 14: 27
            +2
            history is confirmation of this, any sneeze so they immediately sanction
            1. RUSS
              RUSS 23 December 2020 17: 45
              -4
              Quote: Nastia Makarova
              history is confirmation of this, any sneeze so they immediately sanction

              Until 2014, there were no sanctions until the well-known events began.
              1. Nastia makarova
                Nastia makarova 24 December 2020 08: 07
                0
                there have been sanctions since the middle of the 20th century
    2. Alf
      Alf 23 December 2020 20: 06
      +1
      Quote: maksbazhin
      more problems for officials - less money there

      Not "there", but with the "people".
  • Nitarius
    Nitarius 23 December 2020 10: 31
    +1
    ))) guys .. the media have nothing to do with reality ... says and does .. it's different! how they bought and will be))) and it is profitable for us to sell ..))) what an illusion I don’t understand!
    1. Brturin
      Brturin 23 December 2020 12: 28
      0
      Quote: Nitarius
      bought and will be))) and it is profitable for us to sell ..)))

      It is possible to sell, but made using Russian technologies - "In the case of using American technologies, the consent of the US authorities is required, but at VSMPO-Avisma, only Russian technologies are used in titanium production, and these are mainly our own developments, so there is no need to agree on anything. Thus, the restrictions will not affect the production process "-" VSMPO-Avisma ". The question is whether Russia is capable and how long it takes to replace American technologies ... And investment in science is not cheap, maybe it is worth giving up something now, so that in the future ... Democrats used to complicate Trump's life, now Trump is laying mines on Democrats ...
  • U-58
    U-58 23 December 2020 10: 33
    +2
    Bread is all over the head.
    Therefore, we sell.
    However, it seems that if we pinch the supply of engines, the Americans will bring theirs even faster to mind.
    Poem pragmatism and profit counting ...
    1. donavi49
      donavi49 23 December 2020 11: 26
      +4
      Well, there are no engines:
      - Antares to the junkyard. Moreover, they wanted to throw it out this year. But the new owner is evident - Northrop has resolved the issue. In general, there will only be won - an expensive rocket, unnecessary to anyone except the CRS program for NASA.
      - Atlas5 for austerity. The most important scientific missions + military will be launched. In order to hold out until the certification of the methane Vulcan-Centauri (which is the first flight 4Q2021 - but in reality it will most likely leave at 22).

      Musk will stick tightly to the government order.
      ULA bangs a banquet with the rivers Cristal Brut and expensive professional girls. For they will be + 200-300% of orders for the Delta.
      Questionable StarLiner. But everything is very sad there. Very, very sad already. Even sadder than the 737MAX who is still trying to get out. Given the fact that Dragon flies, they can also put Starliner under the knife. Moreover, the rates there have dropped sharply and the terms have crept by +1 year.
  • Ua3qhp
    Ua3qhp 23 December 2020 10: 34
    +3
    Quote: Rurikovich
    Ayayay ... wassat But we are so honest that we do not break contracts. They will spread rot, but we will fulfill our obligations. So what if the "partners" do not fulfill their own (disposal of chemical weapons) ... We're not like that request fool
    Sarcasm

    Ok, let's stop SELLING engines in the USA. Who will pay the wages to the workers of Energomash?
    1. Rurikovich
      Rurikovich 23 December 2020 10: 41
      -1
      The question is not for me, but for Rogozin and the company - develop your space industry, then there will be something to pay salaries. Under the Soviet Union, engines were not sold to Americans and salaries were paid wink
      1. Cosm22
        Cosm22 23 December 2020 11: 11
        +1
        If the development of its space industry means the possibility of attaching RD-180 / RD-181 engines to something, then this is dull. For in Russia there is no PH for them.
        So I must say thank you to Uncle Sam, who still takes these engines under the contract and gives the Energomash workers an opportunity to earn money, to bring home a pretty penny.
        However, this shop will soon be closed.
        1. slipped
          slipped 23 December 2020 14: 58
          0
          Quote: Cosm22
          If the development of its space industry means the possibility of attaching RD-180 / RD-181 engines to something, then this is dull. For in Russia there is no PH for them.


          The RD-181 is an export version of the RD-193 for the Soyuz-2.1v launch vehicle and it will be installed on this carrier after the NK-33 runs out, just as the same engines were replaced at the Antares.

          RD-180MV - a new engine for the Soyuz-6 carrier - a smaller first stage Soyuz-5 and a third stage from Soyuz-2.1b.
      2. donavi49
        donavi49 23 December 2020 11: 19
        +2
        And what to display? This could be realized if there was a commercial launch market. But he left and does not promise to return. Their 10-14 launches per year will not feed. Therefore, they spin as they can. So it is better than as on Khrunichev debt for debt and on top of a couple of debts to service the interest on previously taken.

        I am already silent that a specialist who studied and twisted RD-180/181 on another product is not stupidly needed. And I also keep silent that, say, in the Garage there are generally other engines (hydrogen + oxygen) and kerosene workers are not needed there. As well as on the main trend of the 20s of the 21st century - methane. That is, the workers are stupid to the street, if you twist the figure of the murikers.
        1. slipped
          slipped 24 December 2020 13: 07
          +1
          Quote: donavi49
          And what to display?


          A lot of. laughing

          Quote: donavi49
          This could be realized if there was a commercial launch market. And he left and does not promise to return.


          Russia continues to offer launch services. A large number of commercial launches next year.

          Quote: donavi49
          Their 10-14 launches per year will not feed.


          Roskosmos is not a commercial enterprise. All commercial launches are a source of extra-budgetary funding. And there are 17 launches this year due to the postponement of some launches to next year.

          Quote: donavi49
          So it is better than as on Khrunichev debt for debt and on top of a couple of debts to service the interest on previously taken.


          The TsiH's debt has already been reduced by 70%.

          Quote: donavi49
          I am already silent that a specialist who studied and twisted the RD-180/181 on another product is stupidly not needed.


          RD-180MV - will be used on the Soyuz-6 and Yenisei carriers.
          RD-181 - export version of RD-193 for Soyuz-2.1v, after completion of operation of NK-33.

          A state contract for EP has been signed for Soyuz-6.

          Quote: donavi49
          And I am also silent that, say, in the Garage there are generally other engines (hydrogen + oxygen) and there is no need for kerosene fuel.


          Angara today uses the RD-191 and RD-0124A kerosene engines
      3. 72jora72
        72jora72 23 December 2020 12: 10
        +1
        Under the Soviet Union, engines were not sold to Americans and salaries were paid
        Under the Soviet Union, we sold a lot of things to the "damned West", in the next branch I wrote about the KU299 carousel of the Kolomensky ZTS. This truly huge machine had a faceplate, on which a workpiece with a diameter of up to 20 m with a total weight of under 560 tons could be placed. The first machine was bought by the Japanese company Hitachi in 1970, because no one in the world made such machines, later Kolomna machines were supplied to 50 countries of the world ( and yes, in the USA too). Now Kolomensky ZTS does not supply anyone with anything ... and the plant itself does not exist. I will give you a hundred such examples.
    2. Alf
      Alf 23 December 2020 20: 08
      0
      Quote: Ua3qhp
      Ok, let's stop SELLING engines in the USA. Who will pay the wages to the workers of Energomash?

      And until 91, where did the Union sell engines? And the workers' wages were paid somehow ..
  • datura23
    datura23 23 December 2020 10: 34
    +1
    "who is defeated by whom is that and the slave"
  • Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 23 December 2020 10: 35
    +1
    It is disgusting that they are trying to destroy our civil aircraft industry. Such petty behavior ... Well, we will continue to develop. We did it with carbon fiber, and the engines too. We'll tighten up the electronics ...
    1. apro
      apro 23 December 2020 10: 44
      -2
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      It's disgusting that they are trying to destroy our civil aircraft industry.

      Yes, the Americans are trying ... but they cannot catch up with Russian defective managers ...
  • Aleks2000
    Aleks2000 23 December 2020 10: 36
    +2
    This is no longer surprising.
    Sanctions, import substitution, national projects - this is for "tolerated in the electorate."
    But in reality - money does not smell.
    "We must be happy," Putin said about the growth in trade with Ukraine. They supplied titanium, aluminum, coal, gas ...
    Money does not smell.
  • Alexander X
    Alexander X 23 December 2020 10: 37
    +1
    If the engines are not supplied, a third of the workers in Khimki will be left without work ...
    1. apro
      apro 23 December 2020 10: 50
      -4
      Quote: Alexander X
      If the engines are not supplied, a third of the workers in Khimki will be left without work ...

      And how many villas and yachts will not be built ...
    2. mark1
      mark1 23 December 2020 10: 56
      0
      We have programs with the "Angara" "Soyuz-5", so we should make an advance order for the engines. Yes, and with titanium it would be necessary to decide something, to add volumes for personal needs.
      1. 72jora72
        72jora72 23 December 2020 12: 16
        -2
        add volumes for personal needs.
        How much titanium will you buy? I'll go get you a paste ...
        1. mark1
          mark1 23 December 2020 12: 49
          +1
          Clean it up for yourself, Seryozha (anyway, clean it somewhere). By the concept of "personal needs" I mean a variety of state programs to create a strategic reserve, ahead of purchases for any needs, etc. actions and programs to stimulate the use of titanium in the country.
      2. Cosm22
        Cosm22 23 December 2020 12: 46
        +3
        Is this such a subtle banter?
        Sarcasm?
        What kind of "advanced engine order" can we talk about in principle?
        What engines? Engines for Angara and Soyuz? RD-180/181 are not used there.
        On engines for launch vehicles existing in Russia? Are you aware of their required amount at least for the near future?
        Soyuz-5 project to replace Zenith in its infancy. It is difficult even to voice the proposed export of the product to the launch pad (which, by the way, still needs to be done in Kazakhstan, "Baytarek" is far from the finish line.). For the cooperation is just wild: the engines are Voronezh KBKHA and NPO Energia, the launch vehicle is designed by the Samara RCC Progress, the RB Fregat is NPO Lavochkin, the starting ground infrastructure is TSENKI. And any question on changing the conditionally pitch of the thread in the unfortunate bolt will be procrastinated for weeks and agreed in various departments.
        But let's say Soyuz-5 got to the SS. What will it give? Nothing.
        For the international market is already closed. It is already narrow - 10-15 commercial orders per year for the Soyuz-5 class LV (5 tons for the GPO). Here the ball is ruled by Ariane-5 (6), Musk's nine, Vulcan is approaching, New Glenn, China, India ... Domestic market? Problematic.
        The situation with Angara is no better. The Ministry of Defense was obliged to make a pre-order for a product that has not yet been tested with full PN. 4 pieces in stock. But are you aware of the prospects of the Angara release? Manufacturer capacity? But the situation with cooperation there is even worse. If the carrier is done by one organization, and URMs by another. Yes, there are plans for the near future to produce 4-6 items per year. Maximum.
        Do you propose to make "advance orders for engines" for this amount?
        1. mark1
          mark1 23 December 2020 13: 07
          -1
          Quote: Cosm22
          RD-180/181 are not used there.

          Well, of course you know that RD-170 and RD-180 constructively happened one and the other, so there are no particularly insoluble problems. And deliveries to the United States will soon expire anyway, so it will not work out for all his life at the expense of Uncle Sam. The rest of all your moaning about the ROP programs will hopefully ch.z. for some time they will not be relevant (they would have started crying 10-8 years ago, would have hit the very spot). Take antidepressants and believe in the best (although God knows what is best for you)
          1. Cosm22
            Cosm22 23 December 2020 14: 09
            +1
            I would believe in the best if I had a little less knowledge in this area.
            But, unfortunately, I don't see any prospects for Russian cosmonautics.
            About 8-10 years ago, the Republic of Kazakhstan had to quickly orient itself, turn off the path leading to a dead end, understand and accept new trends in world cosmonautics and start doing at least something in this direction instead of endless modernization of the outdated Soviet legacy.
            But ... not destiny ...
            That is why today we rejoice at the start of at least a second Union and an empty Angara ... There is nothing else ...
            And we are even afraid to pay attention to the successes of the same China (I generally keep quiet about the Mask).
            1. mark1
              mark1 23 December 2020 14: 20
              -1
              Quote: Cosm22
              if I had a little less knowledge in this area.

              I do not know the depth of your knowledge in this area, but if you are directly related to Roskosmos, is it not your fault (including) that 8-10 years ago, you merrily rolled in the trailer of the Russian cosmonautics to nowhere, feeling like an eternal world cab driver. The time has come to get out of that G., where we have so merrily stopped, but difficult, almost hopeless, but we must work and hope for the best.
              1. Cosm22
                Cosm22 23 December 2020 14: 36
                -1
                That’s what I’m talking about.
                That we have to work.
                It is not stupid to exploit the Soviet heritage, but to make products that, if they do not enter the world market, will at least be affordable in the domestic market.
                What is the result? Hangara with its exorbitant price?
                At the same time, there is only verbal chatter around the promising Amur-LNG project. Yes, the project is not perfect in every way. Moreover, it was necessary to focus efforts and money on it, to bring it to mind. For this is truly a modern development.
                How can we hope for the best under these conditions? If the future of the road along which the Russian cosmonautics goes is clearly visible - a dead end?
                You can, of course, forget about everything, stick your head in the sand like an ostrich. To see and hear nothing. Or yell to the whole world "we are fine, beautiful marquise!"
                But who will get better from it?
                1. Vadim237
                  Vadim237 23 December 2020 17: 25
                  0
                  In general, the hangar is primarily made for the military, but Soyuz 5 and, as a result, Amur LNG on its basis will serve commercial customers, both internal and external, since the price will be comparable and lower than that of Falcon 9.
    3. Dym71
      Dym71 23 December 2020 11: 12
      0
      Quote: Alexander X
      If the engines are not supplied, a third of the workers in Khimki will be left without work ...

      Quote: Winston Churchill
      If a country chooses shame between war and shame, it gets both shame and war
  • apro
    apro 23 December 2020 10: 53
    +1
    I remember the USSR ... that's who was under sanctions ... and did not howl something is impossible. This is not given. I did everything myself. And I didn't break my hat in front of anyone. And I didn't shed tears ... how bad everything is.
  • Jacket in stock
    Jacket in stock 23 December 2020 10: 54
    +2
    What is sanctions?
    This is a punishment.
    If Americans do not sell something to us, which we ourselves do not know how to do, then we will not have this, and there will not be something for which we needed something - satellites, airplanes, cars and trains will not fly, computers will not turn on, etc. etc.
    Because we buy much more than we know how to do ourselves. This means that their sanctions will worsen our life, the punishment has taken place.

    If we don’t sell something to the Americans, then they will either buy it elsewhere, or make it themselves without us. Our factories and design bureaus will be left without work, employees without wages, budgets without taxes .... life in our country will worsen.
    The punishment took place again, but we were punished again.

    It's like in school, when the whole class boycotts you, or you yourself boycott the whole class, in the end no one is talking to you anyway.
    We just have sooo different weight classes.
    1. Nastia makarova
      Nastia makarova 23 December 2020 12: 05
      -4
      we do the main components ourselves for ms21, and you can buy a trifle in china
  • Woodman
    Woodman 23 December 2020 10: 56
    +2
    One thing I don't understand: if they have Musk, why do they need our engines?
    1. donavi49
      donavi49 23 December 2020 11: 07
      +7
      Well, if there are no our engines, then Musk will start to grey wassat ... And lobbyism is also bad. Well, that is, the budget easily pays the overpricing to its people. Therefore, they buy deltas (there is nothing Russian there, just a horse price tag, one of the most expensive missiles in the world today) at 420-430 million dollars per launch. For ULA has it all wink .

      RD-181 - go to an alternative rocket. Many people forget that in addition to Mask, NASA gave money to a bunch of companies, 3 reached the final, and then two remained. One is SpaceX with 25 launches in 2020. Another Orbital, now deceased with the Antares rocket - which makes 1-2 launches a year at a space cost of 100+ million in its current configuration.

      NASA was specifically going to kick Orbital out of the new program this summer. But you can see a couple more missiles were purchased. Moreover, there is no longer Orbital, some murky private trader. And Northrop, which opens the door to the Senate Congress. Such guys are more expensive to rent.

      The second rocket from Boeing / YULA Atlas5 - mainly takes out the load on military orders. Again, lobbying decides. However, Atlas still fits into the market, but the last commercial rocket launch - 2016 with EchoStar. Everything else is either NASA or the military.
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. Ronald Reagan
      Ronald Reagan 23 December 2020 11: 08
      0
      You need to read beyond the title. laughing
      1. Woodman
        Woodman 23 December 2020 11: 20
        +1
        Quote: Ronald Reagan
        Need to read beyond the title

        And what is there, "next to the title", written about my question?
    4. Sergej1972
      Sergej1972 23 December 2020 11: 57
      0
      They have had strict antitrust and antimonopoly legislation since the beginning of the 20th century.
  • vavilon
    vavilon 23 December 2020 11: 00
    0
    And who are we !? It is said too loudly, our so-called "elite" side with national interests, they have only green candy wrappers before their eyes
  • rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 23 December 2020 11: 00
    0
    The United States gives us sanctions, we give them rocket engines.
    All that remains is to shrug your shoulders and shrug your shoulders ... It is more than strange, unless, according to previously concluded agreements, compensation is not provided for the American side in case of non-deliveries.
  • rocket757
    rocket757 23 December 2020 11: 06
    +1
    Uncle, what is good and what is bad ???
    This is not to say that in this matter it is possible to put signs in this way, minus or plus ... people work, they receive a salary, offer them a similar, decent job, then the issue can / should be solved radically.
    1. Alf
      Alf 23 December 2020 20: 21
      -1
      Quote: rocket757
      This is not to say that in this matter it is possible to put signs in this way, minus or plus ... people work, they receive a salary, offer them a similar, decent job, then the issue can / should be solved radically.

      Two questions.
      1. And where did the engines go before the 91st year? And the factories in two shifts puffed and the workers received a decent salary.
      2. Does the Russian Federation now have its own meteorological satellites? Is the whole country provided with satellite Internet and TV? Is GLONASS fully functioning?
      P.S. Now everyone is pointing their fingers at the wrong forecasts of the weather forecasters, and the head of Rosmeteo has officially stated that the accuracy of weather predictions depends on the fact that in the Russian Federation this service is COMPLETELY functioning on American satellites, there are no own ones left.
      And this is just the tip of the iceberg ..
      1. slipped
        slipped 24 December 2020 13: 21
        +1
        Quote: Alf
        2. Does the Russian Federation now have its own meteorological satellites?


        There is. Now satellites are working in orbit:

        Meteor-M No. 2, Meteor-M No. 2-2, Electro-L No. 2, Electro-L No. 3.

        In the new year it is expected to launch "Meteor-M" No. 2-3, "Arktika-M" No. 1

        Quote: Alf
        Is the whole country provided with satellite Internet and TV?


        Yes. There are well-known satellite operators: Tricolor, NTV +.

        Quote: Alf
        Is GLONASS fully functioning?




        Quote: Alf
        that in the Russian Federation this service is COMPLETELY functioning on American satellites, there are no own ones left.


        You have outdated information.
  • tatra
    tatra 23 December 2020 11: 07
    0
    All this bickering of the American and Russian enemies of the communists is a "fight of the Nanai boys." All of them are the same in their hatred for the best for Russia and the Russian people - the USSR, they are all ready for the sake of profit and profit to spit even on the national interests and reputation of their country.
    1. Simon schempp
      Simon schempp 23 December 2020 14: 44
      -2
      bickering of American and Russian enemies of the communists

      Donavi's techie has been voted "best commentator".
      Tatre was awarded the "best commentator"
      It's just tin sad

  • Brancodd
    Brancodd 23 December 2020 11: 14
    0
    In 2017, funding for the federal space program was cut by Medvedev 2 times.
    Roscosmos budget for 2020 was $ 3 billion.
    In 2020, the budget was cut by another 25%. Now it is 15 times less than NASA's budget. I had to postpone a number of scientific programs, and not only them ...
    Let's stop selling engines. And we will also cancel the contract with "OneWeb".
    But then these same people, on the same site, will hysteria "All ... polymers".
    1. Alf
      Alf 23 December 2020 20: 22
      +1
      Quote: Brancodd
      In 2017, funding for the federal space program was cut by Medvedev 2 times.

      Did he give the reason? Or was he ashamed?
      1. Brancodd
        Brancodd 24 December 2020 01: 28
        0
        Did he give the reason? Or was he ashamed?

        Obviously, Medvedev was deeply disgusted with the idea of ​​doing something ourselves, with the real sector in general. A product of the era of Troubles ...
  • awdrgy
    awdrgy 23 December 2020 11: 15
    +2
    They haven't written about uranium yet, it's more interesting there
  • XXXIII
    XXXIII 23 December 2020 11: 18
    0
    "The United States gives us sanctions, we give them rocket engines" - the political scientist commented on the situation
    So influence those who feed there.
  • Ua3qhp
    Ua3qhp 23 December 2020 11: 20
    +1
    Quote: Jacket in stock
    If Americans do not sell something to us, which we ourselves do not know how to do, then we will not have this, and there will not be something for which we needed something - satellites, airplanes, cars and trains will not fly, computers will not turn on, etc. etc.

    We didn't have it because we were buying. Now we will do it ourselves, which means we will receive salaries for making something that did not exist before.
  • aszzz888
    aszzz888 23 December 2020 11: 24
    -1
    On the eve, Dmitry Rogozin, the general director of Roscosmos, called the American sanctions against Russian enterprises in the rocket and space industry illegal and stupid
    And Rogozin also gave another answer, "The trampoline turned on. The Americans spat in the Samara well." Almost literally.
    1. slipped
      slipped 24 December 2020 13: 28
      +1
      Quote: aszzz888
      And Rogozin also gave another answer, "The trampoline turned on. The Americans spat in the Samara well." Almost literally.


      These are your words taken out of context. Literally like this:

      “Now, it turns out, our American colleagues have a“ trampoline ”again, and first of all they decided to spit in the Samara well. " laughing

      NASA is silent in response and deals with unsubscribes. laughing
  • Brancodd
    Brancodd 23 December 2020 11: 36
    +2
    Quote: grandfather_Kostya
    While the emission of the ruble for internal purposes depends on foreign exchange earnings, this will continue ...

    Yes it is
  • 7,62x54
    7,62x54 23 December 2020 11: 38
    0
    And what about Rogozin, this is the zits-chairman. What the owners tell him, he will do.
  • opuonmed
    opuonmed 23 December 2020 11: 40
    +1
    well, you need to sell engines)
  • bar
    bar 23 December 2020 11: 44
    0
    VSMPO-AVISMA also happily declares that nothing threatens the supply of titanium products for Boeing, and that the established technical process will not stop. angry
  • set of sets
    set of sets 23 December 2020 12: 00
    +1
    “The United States gives us sanctions, we give them rocket engines. Is this as a symmetrical response to US sanctions against Roscosmos? Or is it an asymmetrical answer? ,,

    Roscosmos and Rogozin are not responsible for the retaliatory measures.
    And in this case, refusing to supply US engines would be a shot in the leg and to the detriment of its own economy. All countermeasures are well thought out so as, at least, not to harm Russia, but as a maximum, to benefit from these measures.
    So Tretyakov is simply doing stupid PR. And nothing more.
    1. Ros 56
      Ros 56 23 December 2020 12: 19
      -3
      Uh-huh. Storyteller, have we received many benefits from the striped ones?
      1. set of sets
        set of sets 23 December 2020 12: 35
        +1
        ,, Uh-huh. Storyteller, have we received many benefits from the striped ones?

        Do we supply them free engines? IN
        NPO Energomash employs over 4000 people. How many workers will have their wages cut and how many will be fired after they quit producing engines? Have you thought about it?
        Yes, people like you do not care about them. If only to amuse your pride. Personally, you and Tretyakov will not suffer.

        If Tretyakov and Co. want to pump the USA so badly, then let them fully compensate the material damage to all Energomash employees.
        And it turns out to paradise at someone else's expense. Somehow even despicable.
        1. Ros 56
          Ros 56 23 December 2020 12: 40
          -2
          I remember that the Nazis also promised heavenly booths. People like you agreed.
          1. set of sets
            set of sets 23 December 2020 12: 45
            +1
            People like you, at 41, ran to Moscow only with their heels sparkling, and people like me turned them around and drove them to Berlin.
            1. Ros 56
              Ros 56 23 December 2020 12: 48
              -2
              Don't drive the blizzard, persecutor. We have seen such balaboloks.
              1. set of sets
                set of sets 23 December 2020 12: 54
                0
                In general, the transition to personalities indicates a lack of arguments. And you don't have them at all. Except for stupid pride and PR.
        2. Thomas the Unbelieving
          Thomas the Unbelieving 27 December 2020 16: 25
          0
          Of course, not "free", but for dollars - and where are they? People get rubles. And dollars can also be sanctioned and frozen in American bank accounts - they have always done this and will do so.
  • Dimide
    Dimide 23 December 2020 12: 01
    0
    The engine is not for free.
    Will not supply the RF, find an alternative or change the project
    1. Alf
      Alf 23 December 2020 20: 25
      +1
      Quote: Dimid
      Will not supply the RF, find an alternative or change the project

      So what hasn’t been found yet?
      1. Dimide
        Dimide 23 December 2020 21: 52
        0
        Project agreements probably
        If my memory serves me, I saw a video of burning an analogue of the RD-180 from amerikosov about six months ago.
        But not exactly
        1. Alf
          Alf 23 December 2020 22: 10
          +1
          Quote: Dimid
          Project agreements probably

          When did such a "piece of paper" as an agreement stop the Americans?
          1. Dimide
            Dimide 23 December 2020 22: 11
            0
            I can ask the same counter question
  • The comment was deleted.
  • 72jora72
    72jora72 23 December 2020 12: 13
    -2
    Quote: Alexander X
    If the engines are not supplied, a third of the workers in Khimki will be left without work ...

    It is not important for the "patriots" .....
  • Ros 56
    Ros 56 23 December 2020 12: 17
    -2
    And how can striped ones replace our engines? And if there is nothing, then why are we dressing ourselves up in front of ourselves?
    1. donavi49
      donavi49 23 December 2020 12: 37
      +6
      Dry statistics:
      Antares in 2018 - 2 launches, 2019 - 2 launches, 2020 - 2 launches.
      Atlas 5 in 2018 - 5 launches, 2019 - 2 launches, 2020 - 5 launches.

      Antares is used exclusively under the CRS program - Lebed's delivery to the ISS. The rocket is very expensive (although it was created under the same commercial participation program as the Falcon, by the way). NASA wanted to stop purchasing Antares in the summer by transferring Lebed to Atlas5 - this came out for about the same price, but more payload weight on the ISS. Moreover, Omega (a promising launch vehicle from the Northrop and Orbital rocket department) died without being born.

      Atlas5 - participates in NASA programs for the withdrawal of scientific load (for example, a Mars rover, or a solar AMS), in military programs (more than 70% of all launches in recent years) and in the program of manned orbital flights (but Starliner cannot bring Demo2 to Demo21, there are a lot of jambs , and the commission does not accept any more snot and promises until the spring of XNUMX - but the unmanned mission will probably leave for the fall-end).

      There will be no direct replacement of engines and no one is planning. Antares will go to the cemetery. Just a little later.

      Atlas5 will be replaced by the methane Vulcan Centaur - ULA's main workhorse for the next 10 years. They already have their own BE-4 methane engines.

      The rest of the launch vehicles flew and are flying. Deltas there for example. New ones are on the way, but they aim at the light weight category. Very soon, these are flying - 1t of payload in the Alpha version up to 3t with boosters (Beta version by 22-23).

  • Goldmitro
    Goldmitro 23 December 2020 12: 32
    +1
    The United States gives us sanctions, we give them rocket engines.

    Is it any wonder after that that[b] more and more people who want nothing to be afraid to kick Russia and the Russians, accuse them of anything on occasion and without occasion! The main thing is business! Don't give a damn about image, respect and so on!
  • Egor53
    Egor53 23 December 2020 12: 34
    0
    Russia makes a lot of money from the sale of engines, which keeps Energomash and Roscosmos afloat.
    Refusal to sell these engines in the United States will create problems for the United States, but not fatal ones. Russia will suffer more from such a refusal than the United States.
    And the US sanctions are only good for Russia.
    In addition, there is a much larger high-tech export from Russia to the United States - this is nuclear fuel, which the United States has not produced for more than 4 years.
    If you hit the US economy with sanctions, then not rocket engines but nuclear fuel.
  • bolt
    bolt 23 December 2020 12: 40
    +1
    The United States will receive 2021 Russian rocket engines in 10 ...


    Energomash will supply six RD-2021 engines and four RD-180 engines to the USA in 181


    Great news! I am glad for Energomash and its employees, for the entire Roscosmos, in general, and its management, in particular.
    I wish them to further increase engine sales to American consumers in 2022. And let's hope. not only American.

    It can be seen that in the last couple of years the situation in both the corporation and the industry has been rapidly and steadily returning to normal. This is clearly not to the liking of a number of citizens, both in the Government and here, in the VO.

    Otherwise, there would not have been quite boorish statements about Roscosmos by some deputy prime ministers buying rusty Venezuelan tankers.

    Otherwise, such anonymous articles would not have appeared, citing already slightly inadequate characters like Tretyakov.

    # Rogozinrulit #!
    1. Alf
      Alf 23 December 2020 20: 27
      +1
      Quote: crashing
      # Rogozinrulit #!

      Which way?
  • baza1
    baza1 23 December 2020 13: 31
    +1
    A political scientist just to ring. That's why he is a political scientist.
  • Engineer
    Engineer 23 December 2020 13: 56
    0
    A narrow-minded political scientist simply does not understand that for Energomash this is real money, this is work for several enterprises, this is salaries for engineers and workers, this is money for equipment and new developments. And no need to flog American Twitter nonsense if you are such a patriot.
    1. iouris
      iouris 23 December 2020 14: 41
      +1
      Quote: Engineer
      A narrow-minded political scientist simply does not understand that for Energomash this is real money

      The States have already squeezed everything out of "cooperation". The project is closed. If there is no "real money", then kaput will come. "The idol of communism is defeated!" (EBN). Finita la comedy.
  • My_log_in
    My_log_in 23 December 2020 14: 00
    +1
    I hope at least prepaid?
  • iouris
    iouris 23 December 2020 14: 37
    +1
    "The US gives us sanctions, we give them rocket engines"
    And three times "Kyu!"
  • Catholic
    Catholic 23 December 2020 15: 37
    +22
    US us - sanctions, we them - rocket engines

    We have a "partnership" with the Americans wassat
  • Cool but not Igor
    Cool but not Igor 23 December 2020 15: 55
    0
    Russia is weaker than the United States! Therefore, refusal to supply engines at such a difficult time will cause much more harm to Russia itself than the United States .. they will get out!
    1. iouris
      iouris 23 December 2020 16: 51
      0
      The USSR did not supply engines, because ... And the United States got out.
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 23 December 2020 17: 30
        0
        For that, in the 87th they began to supply uranium and earlier the USSR bought grain from the USA and some medicines.
  • Maikl59
    Maikl59 23 December 2020 18: 31
    +1
    like this.....
  • Alexey Kotov
    Alexey Kotov 23 December 2020 18: 38
    0
    All their sanctions are not sanctions, legal or illegal, they are war. Is it really not going to reach our leaders.
    1. Alf
      Alf 23 December 2020 20: 29
      +1
      Quote: Alexey Kotov
      All their sanctions are not sanctions, legal or illegal, they are war.

      This war is for the electorate.
      Quote: Alexey Kotov
      Will it really not reach our leaders.

      They are fine.
  • Alexander Gordeyev
    Alexander Gordeyev 23 December 2020 21: 19
    +1
    Would it be better if the Yankees, having not received our engines, begin to build and build their own?
  • Evgeny Seleznev
    Evgeny Seleznev 23 December 2020 21: 35
    0
    I have no words. Degenerates. They gave the opportunity to conduct programs after the Shuttle for a symbolic fee, Elon Musk is already bypassing Roskosmos. Here we also give under the sanctions like a harbor maid.
  • humbov
    humbov 24 December 2020 00: 08
    0
    A bucket of caps for every @ Yankee sanctioner experience. Rocket engines, flights to the ISS, titanium Salda beams for their yobings ..., what are we asking, NOTHING to answer ??
  • safar gafarov
    safar gafarov 24 December 2020 08: 51
    -1
    patience in one word you will be atamans