Military Review

Macedonia. Territory of discord

Macedonia. Territory of discord
Battle Banner of the Struga Rebel Party (Ilinden Uprising)

Macedonia fell into the sphere of Ottoman influence in the second half of the 26th century. On September 1371, XNUMX, near the Maritsa River near the village of Chernomen, the Ottoman army of Lala Shahin Pasha attacked the troops of Vukashin Mrnyavchevich Prilepsky and his brother Yoan Ugles Seressky. The Christians were taken by surprise, and, in general, it was not so much a battle as a massacre of disparate units (Serbian, Bulgarian, Bosnian, Hungarian, Wallachian) who did not have time to form for battle. The defeat led to the fact that part of the territories of Macedonia and Thrace was under the rule of the Turkish sultans. The remaining lands of Macedonia, in which Vukashin's son Marko ruled, became a vassal of the Ottoman state. It happened under Sultan Murad I.

Marko on the fresco of the Markov Monastery near Prilep, circa 1380

This son of Vukashin under the name "Marko Korolevich" became the character of many heroic songs, where he unexpectedly appears as a public defender against Ottoman oppression. One of the legends, recorded by Vuk Karadzic, tells that Marko retired to a cave after seeing a gun for the first time. He allegedly said then:

Now heroism is useless, because the very last villain can kill a valiant young man.

In fact, Marko Vukashinic was a loyal servant of the Turkish sultans and died in May 1395 during the Battle of Rovinj, where he fought against the Wallachian army of Mircea the Old on the side of Bayezid I of Lightning. In the same battle, the Serbian feudal lord Konstantin Dejanovich Dragash, the despot of Velbuzhd, who owned the north-eastern part of the Macedonian lands (Velbuzhd despotism), died.

Konstantin Deyanovich on the page of the Gospel of the Bulgarian Tsar Ivan Alexander

This battle ended in a "draw", both armies retreated from the battlefield without revealing a winner, but the Prilepsk principality and Velbuzhd despotism, which had lost their rulers, then became part of the Ottoman state as part of Rumelia.

But let's go back 20 years and see that in 1373 the Tsar of Bulgaria Ivan Shishman also recognized the power of Murad I, who gave him his sister Tamara Keru as his wife. Then the Byzantine emperor John V and his brother Manuel, who ruled in Thessaloniki, became vassals of this sultan.

But Moreya still held out, where the despot Theodore I ruled in Mystra. The Serbian prince Lazar in 1386 managed to repulse the Turkish offensive on the Toplice River (even earlier he had expelled Marko Vukashinich from Serbia). The army of the Bosnian kral Tvrtko defeated one of the Ottoman armies near Bilech in 1388. But defeat in the Battle of Kosovo in 1389 canceled out all these successes. Instead of liberating the areas captured by the Ottomans, Serbia itself became a vassal of the Turkish sultans.

Muslims in Macedonia

The inhabitants of Macedonia, who professed Christianity, paid additional taxes - haraj and jizye, their children were taken away according to the devshirme system - in this their fate was no different from the fate of other Rumelian subjects. But part of the population of Macedonia was Islamized during the period of Ottoman rule. Here, the Slavs who converted to Islam were called torbesh - it was a derogatory nickname: this is how local Christians called those who changed their faith for “torba of flour”. But the torbesh themselves claim that their ancestors received this nickname because among them there were many small merchants who went to the villages with the torbes. It seems that Islamization is no longer enough for modern torbeshes living in this country: many of them are striving to become Turkic, declaring themselves not Slavs, but Turks. They do not know the Turkish language (as many of the current “Ukrainian patriots” do not know “Mova”), but they force their children to learn it.

Dance of women at a festival in the village of Torbeshei Gorno Kosovrasti

There are other Muslims in Macedonia. Since the XNUMXth century, Muslim Albanians began to settle in Macedonia, in the XNUMXth century some Circassians settled in this area, leaving the territory of the Russian Empire, and then Muslims from the newly independent Serbia and Bulgaria. In turn, some Macedonian Christians fled to the territory of Austria from the end of the XNUMXth century, and then began to move to the Russian Empire.

Anti-Ottoman demonstrations in Macedonia

It cannot be said that the Macedonians were absolutely obedient Ottoman subjects. Periodically, uprisings broke out in these lands, one of the first occurred during the reign of Suleiman I the Magnificent. Some of the uprisings were associated with the Austro-Turkish wars - in 1593-1606 and 1683-1699. And in 1807-1809. In Macedonia, unrest began, caused by the news of the successes of the Serbs, who were then headed by Kara-Georgiy (this is described in the article "The water in the Drina flows cold, and the blood of the Serbs is hot"). Anti-Ottoman demonstrations were also noted in Macedonia during the uprising in Bosnia and Herzegovina in 1876.

Territory of discord

According to the San Stefano Peace Treaty, almost all of Macedonia (except for Thessaloniki) was to become part of Bulgaria, but its conditions were revised at the Berlin Congress, which took place from June 1 (13) to July 1 (13), 1878.

Historical the territory of Macedonia then (after the administrative reform of 1860) was part of the three vilayets of the Ottoman Empire. The northern part became part of the Kosovo vilayet, the south-western part ended up in the Monastir vilayet, the southeastern part - in the Thessaloniki vilayet (occupying not the entire territory of each of these vilayets).

Vilayets in the region of Macedonia 1907

In terms of religious influence, the Churches of Bulgaria, Greece, Serbia and Romania fought for the minds of the Macedonians in the late XNUMXth century.

The fact that the southern part of Macedonia is located on the Aegean coast greatly increased the stakes in the struggle for this region. In the late XIX - early XX centuries. Greece, Serbia and Bulgaria claimed the territory of Macedonia. Each of these sides had certain reasons to consider these lands their own.

The Greeks said that since the time of the great Alexander, Macedonia has been part of Hellas.

Ancient Macedonia and the historical region of Macedonia on the map

They did not forget that Macedonia was part of the Byzantine Empire and was ruled from the city of Thessaloniki.

The Serbs remembered Stefan Dusan, who included northern Macedonia in their state, about the Battle of Maritsa in 1371, Marko Korolevic, and called Macedonia "Old Serbia".

The Bulgarians argued that there were no differences at all between them and the Macedonians, and only an unfortunate coincidence of circumstances separated a part of the united people from their historical homeland.

What was the situation in Macedonia at that time?

The Russian diplomat Trubetskoy then compared the Macedonians to "a dough from which one can mold both Serbs and Bulgarians."

The French Balkan scholar Louis-Jaret wrote about Macedonia:

Here is a Christian village: they speak Albanian dialect, its priest is Orthodox and obeys the exarch, if you ask the inhabitants of this village about who they are, they answer that they are Bulgarians. Here is another village: the peasants are Muslims, their language is Slavic-Bulgarian, their physical type is Albanian, and they call themselves Albanians. Nearby, other farmers also call themselves Albanians, but they, in turn, are Orthodox, depend on the exarchate and speak Bulgarian. "

Often, in the same family, the closest relatives identified themselves as belonging to different nations. For example, a family is described where the father considered himself Bulgarian, the eldest son considered himself a Serb, and the youngest was called Greek.

The competing states were not limited to the ideological struggle for the sympathies of the population of Macedonia. Bulgarian, Serbian and Greek detachments (couples) operated on its territory, the official goal of which was to fight the Ottomans, and the unofficial one was to destroy competitors. They also carried out a "cleaning" of the territory from unwanted elements, for example, teachers of the "wrong" language, priests who refused to obey the Bulgarian Exarchate or the Constantinople (Greek) Patriarch. Sometimes residents of entire villages became victims of such detachments. For example, the Serbs destroyed the Bulgarian village of Zagorichany. They did not disdain provocations either. It is known that in 1906 the Bulgarian Chetniks eliminated the director of one of the Serbian schools, a certain Dimitrievich, by throwing a bundle of dynamite and a plan to blow up a local mosque into the hallway of his house and reporting the "terrorist" to the local gendarmes.

According to Turkish data, in 1907 in Macedonia there were 110 Bulgarian couples, 80 Greek and 30 Serbian. Serbian Prime Minister Milutin Garashanin formulated the tasks in 1885:

In today's situation, our enemy in those lands is not Turkey, but Bulgaria.
("Instructions on Maintaining Serbian Influence in Old Serbia")

Serbian Chetniks in Macedonia, photograph of 1907

Macedonian revolutionary organizations

In Thessaloniki (as the city of Thessaloniki was then called), a group was created in 1893, later called the Inner Macedonian-Odrin revolutionary organization, the purpose of which was stated:

The unification into a single whole of all dissatisfied elements without distinction of nationality for the conquest through revolution of the full political autonomy of Macedonia and the Adrianople (Odrinsky) vilayet.

Its leaders considered Macedonia to be an indivisible territory, and all its inhabitants, regardless of nationality, were Macedonians. It is curious that almost all of them were Bulgarians.

VMORO also organized its own detachments, which from 1898 to 1903. 130 times they fought with the Turks. In 1903, this organization was already so strong that on August 2, on the day of St. Elijah (Ilenden), it raised an uprising, in which up to 35 thousand people participated. The rebels captured the city of Krushevo and created a republic that lasted 10 days.

The city of Krusevo on the map of Macedonia (indicated by the arrow)

Nikola Karev, school teacher, head of the "Krushevskaya Republic"

Later this organization split into two parts. The "right" advocated the annexation of Macedonia to Bulgaria, the "left" - for the creation of the Balkan Federation.

During the I Balkan and I world wars, the units of the VMORO fought on the side of Bulgaria, in 1913 they took part in two anti-Serb uprisings.

In 1919, the Internal Macedonian Revolutionary Organization was created on the basis of WMORO.

Emblem of the Internal Macedonian Revolutionary Organization

According to the results of the First Balkan War (in which, by the way, airplanes and armored cars were used for the first time in the world), most of Macedonia with a section of the Aegean Sea coast became part of Bulgaria. But after the II Balkan War, Bulgaria only had the north-eastern part of Macedonia (Pirin Territory). The southern part (Aegean Macedonia) was then received by Greece, and the western and central parts (Vardar Macedonia) - by Serbia.

At first, Bulgaria occupied the entire Vardar and part of Aegean Macedonia during World War I, but failed to save these lands: Macedonia was divided between Bulgaria, Greece and the Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes, which later became Yugoslavia.

At this time, the VMRO continued its struggle with the central authorities of Yugoslavia, often acting in alliance with the Croatian Ustasha. It was the Macedonian militant Vlado Chernozemsky who became the performer in the terrorist attack of 1934, when King Alexander of Yugoslavia and French Foreign Minister Louis Bartou were killed in Marseille (as we remember from the article The fall of the Karageorgievichs. The last kings of Serbia and Yugoslavia, Bartou was shot not by a terrorist, but by French police).

After the collapse of Yugoslavia, VMRO was revived as a party in both Macedonia and Bulgaria. One of the activists of this party was the future president of Macedonia, Boris Traikovsky.

Macedonia during World War II

With the beginning of the war, Bulgarian troops entered Macedonia from the east, and Italian and Albanian troops from the west. After the fall of Yugoslavia, part of Macedonia with the cities of Tetovo, Gostivar, Kichevo, Struga and Prespav became part of Albania. The rest of the country was occupied by the 5th Bulgarian Army (4 divisions) under the command of Lieutenant General V. Boydev. Then 56 thousand Serbs were forcibly deported from Macedonia. In addition, 19 Macedonians were sent to work in Germany and Italy, and 25 to Bulgaria. About 7 thousand Jews were taken to Poland, where they ended up in the Treblinka concentration camp.

On October 11, 1941, a Macedonian partisan detachment attacked a police station in Prilep, this day is considered the date of the beginning of the anti-fascist resistance to the occupation of Macedonia. By the summer of 1942, the rebels had achieved significant success, completely liberating some areas of the country.

Macedonian partisan detachment "Mirce Acev"

On July 25, 1943, Mussolini was arrested in the royal palace of Rome; on October 8, Italy's surrender was announced. After that, the partisan war in Macedonia intensified sharply. The main headquarters of the People's Liberation Partisan Detachments of Macedonia was now renamed the Main Headquarters of the People's Liberation Army and Partisan Detachments of Macedonia, contacts were established with the states of the Anti-Hitler Coalition and with the Supreme Headquarters of the NOAJ. After the expulsion of the occupation troops from the territory of Macedonia (November 19, 1944), the Macedonian troops (up to 66 thousand people) continued the war on the territory of other Yugoslav lands.

Macedonia in socialist Yugoslavia

On August 2, 1944, at the first meeting of the Anti-Fascist Assembly of the People's Liberation of Macedonia, this country was proclaimed an "equal union unit within the Democratic Federal Yugoslavia", and in 1945 it became one of the 6 republics of the Federal People's Republic of Yugoslavia (which in 1963 received another name - Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia). The Macedonian language became the state language - along with Serbo-Croatian and Albanian.

It should be said that the literary Macedonian language took shape precisely in socialist Yugoslavia: the alphabet and the first spelling code appeared in 1945, and the first Macedonian grammar was approved in 1946. Prior to that, in the Kingdom of Yugoslavia, the Macedonian language was called a dialect of South Serbian. And in the 1946th century, the Macedonian language was considered a dialect of Bulgarian. Then, in XNUMX, the Macedonians were recognized as a separate Slavic ethnos. It has been repeatedly suggested that this was done in order not to call the inhabitants of the historical region of Vardar Macedonia Bulgarians or, God forbid, Greeks (and so that they themselves would not be tempted to call themselves that).

Macedonia has traditionally been one of the poorest and most backward territories of Yugoslavia; in the pre-war period, only two factories had more than 250 workers, and two-thirds of residents over 10 years old were illiterate. Therefore, in the new socialist republic of Macedonia, it had the status of an "undeveloped" region and received significant subsidies from the federal budget. In the course of the implementation of the industrialization program of this republic in Macedonia after the war, dozens of large factories and factories were built and even new industries were created: metallurgy, mechanical engineering, chemical production. Macedonia developed especially rapidly in the period from 1950 to 1970: the volume of industrial production in comparison with 1939 by 1971 increased 35 times.

All this did not prevent local nationalists, who felt at the end of the 80s that the central government was weakening, from taking a course towards creating an independent state. As early as 1989, the Union of Communists of Macedonia changed its name, becoming the Party for Democratic Transformation (since April 21, 1991 - the Social Democratic Union of Macedonia). On September 8, 1991, the parliament adopted a declaration on the republic's sovereignty, and Bulgaria was the first to recognize the independence of Macedonia.

Unlike other republics, the secession of Macedonia from Yugoslavia was bloodless. However, the Macedonians could not avoid the war: they had to fight the local Albanians of the National Liberation Army (PLA) and the Kosovo Liberation Army.

The next article will focus on Macedonia and Kosovo after the collapse of the Socialist Federation of Yugoslavia.
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  1. Catfish
    Catfish 25 December 2020 04: 53
    Good morning friends! Have a nice day and good mood everyone. smile

    I looked at the photo and could not believe my eyes: this is a French fossil "Shosha", where they dug something interesting, and Lebelevskie cartridges had to be taken somewhere. The machine gun was not so hot, but, as they say, without fish ...

    Thank you Valery for continuing the Balkan cycle. hi
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 25 December 2020 05: 24
      I join the words of Uncle Kostya!
      I'll add about Shosh. No wonder we called this machine a machine gun-gun !!!
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 25 December 2020 06: 40
        So that was the general name for such systems. During the Russo-Japanese War, about 600 Danish Madsen light machine guns were used in our cavalry and they were officially called gun-machine gun.

        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 25 December 2020 07: 22
          Hi Uncle Kostya!
          And at the "Masdena" the spring feeds the cartridges?
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 25 December 2020 07: 30
            Of course, there is a spring in the store. Not by gravity, this is not a canister, it has automatic equipment with a short barrel travel. wink
            We had one sample in our department and it was in very good condition.
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 25 December 2020 07: 35
              Thank you!
              Ergonomically, she's still a wunderwolf.
              1. Catfish
                Catfish 25 December 2020 07: 51
                Well, what are you, this is generally the world's first rune machine gun, and quite successful, fought two world wars. And thanks to him, we have the Kovrov Plant named after Dyagterev, so there should be a monument there, or at least a bust to put to Wilhelm Madsen.

                Wilhelm Hermann Olaf Madsen (Dat. Vilhelm Hermann Oluf Madsen; April 11, 1844 - June 14, 1917) - Danish politician, Minister of War of Denmark, army officer, businessman and inventor.
                1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                  Kote Pan Kokhanka 25 December 2020 11: 04
                  Quote: Sea Cat
                  Well, what are you, this is generally the world's first rune machine gun, and quite successful, fought two world wars.

                  Konstantin, the story of Madsen in Russia is a sad drama that "until the thunder breaks out, the pop will not cross himself." The thunder thundered twice, we were baptized, but having the opportunity to get Madsen's machine gun even before the start of the Russian-Japanese war, we pulled the cat by the tail for more than 15 years. In the end, they managed to burn down the workshop in Kovrov, where they planned to produce this machine gun.
                2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                  Kote Pan Kokhanka 25 December 2020 11: 41
                  For comparison with Madsen, I inserted a photo of our (Soviet) first serial MT light machine gun (Maxim Tokorev machine gun).

                  Much heavier and more cumbersome than Madsen.
                  1. Catfish
                    Catfish 25 December 2020 12: 24
                    Well, this is an absolutely miserable compilation of a "sink with a toilet bowl", even as a temporary way out of the situation, I did not roll for a light machine gun. In addition, before Tokarev, the Germans tried to exploit this idea out of despair, so Tokarev is not original here.

                    The same idea, but more digestible.
                    1. Lexus
                      Lexus 26 December 2020 01: 56
                      Lewis Foreva. wink
                      1. Catfish
                        Catfish 27 December 2020 05: 06
                        No, my friend, "forever", perhaps - this is it. smile
                      2. Lexus
                        Lexus 27 December 2020 14: 33
                        Kostya, I meant that among the light machine guns of the First World War "Lewis" was the most successful. You will laugh, but we are both right. bully

                      3. Catfish
                        Catfish 27 December 2020 16: 16
                        Yeah, only there is a dude with an MG-34 to the right of the macaque, and I meant MG-42))
                      4. Lexus
                        Lexus 28 December 2020 00: 46
                        Big-eyed cat! "There is life in the old dog yet!" (C) However, confirmation came from the future that we were both right after all)). Hände hoch !!! tongue

            2. Aviator_
              Aviator_ 25 December 2020 16: 45
              The impression that this is Maxim without a machine, with a disk magazine and air cooling
              1. Lexus
                Lexus 26 December 2020 01: 55
                Sergei hi , and there is.
              2. Catfish
                Catfish 26 December 2020 23: 56
                Well, yes, the same model MG-08-15, with "blower", only both have not a disk, but a drum with a tape for 100 rounds, that's why I didn't sign the second one, it seemed that it was clear.
          2. Korsar4
            Korsar4 25 December 2020 23: 40
            A couple of times I passed the factory. And in general, I like Kovrov.
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 27 December 2020 01: 47
              I have never been to Kovrov, but I talked to a machine gunner, a simple machine, disassembled and assembled without guidance, because it was not found in the library. True, there was dirt in it ... it looks like no one cleaned it from the civilian. smile
  • Grishka cat
    Grishka cat 2 January 2021 20: 01
    I think what is left of the Serbian army with PMA.
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 25 December 2020 05: 47
    Thank you, Valery!
    1. depressant
      depressant 25 December 2020 09: 03
      Good morning, colleagues!)))
      I looked at the map, the United States got used to it, in the same place now the states are divided into blue and red, the rich are fleeing from blue to red ... But no, petty Macedonia, but it looks so solid! It turns out to show the city of Krushevo (Lace in our opinion?).
      Probably there is some golden mean in the size of subordinate administrative patches. Two in one - internal strife begins. One in one - outer, between the flaps. And, I suppose, also Vyvilonian multilingualism.
      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 25 December 2020 11: 44
        I liked the Macedonian banner in the title of the article the most.
        A cute poodle tramples the symbols of the statehood of Islamic Turkey.
        It is difficult to think of a greater insult.
        1. depressant
          depressant 25 December 2020 11: 57
          Cute poodle? wassat
          Vladislav, you are kidding! There's a whole angry crocodile with a lion's tail! In general, the flag resembles a child's drawing.
        2. Aviator_
          Aviator_ 25 December 2020 16: 47
          It is possible to come up with a greater insult to Muslims - with pork, for example.
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 25 December 2020 18: 42
            A dog in Islam is also an "unclean" animal.
            1. Lexus
              Lexus 26 December 2020 02: 10
              As if women there are "valued" in a special way ... In some places, practically "by weight."
        3. VLR
          25 December 2020 18: 38
          Poodle or crocodile? smile
          Probably a local self-taught artist tried to draw a lion he had never seen, but this is how he imagined it
          1. pytar
            pytar 26 December 2020 13: 48
            To the respected author and to the members of the forum who have been targeted! hi
            I made a lot of comments here, sorry ... I'll write another one! From the sphere ... exoteric geometry! bully It can be jokingly accepted, but some things, I hope to make you think!
            So... There is an obvious similarity between Macedonia and Ukraine! The same destructive processes imposed from the outside! Even geometrically, looking at the map, the analogy is complete!

            In the case of Ukraine and its distance from the Russian world, it played a destructive role at first Austria-Hungaryand then Slavic Poland!
            In the case of Macedonia and its distance from the Bulgarian world, a destructive role was played by Greece, and Slavic Serbia!
            Why are these processes fatal for Russia and Bulgaria? The bottom line is the construction of Russia and Bulgaria!
            RUSSIA will consist of three constituent elements - Great Russia, Little Russia / Ukraine / and Belarus!
            BULGARIA also consists of three constituent elements - Mizia, Thrace and Macedonia!

            We look at the picture and what do we see? The system wallpaper forms triangles! A triangle, as we know from mechanics, is a statically and dynamically stable flat structure! If the ribs of the triangle are connected articularly, the system still remains resistant to influences! How can such a system be brought out of equilibrium? We destroy one of the ramen!
            Removing Ukraine from Russia, or Macedonia from Bulgaria, violates the stability of the system! Project Ukraine, and there is creation Anti-Russia, with the aim of destroying Russia itself! The same with РњР ° кедониии! Project Antibolgaria, with the aim of weakening and destroying Bulgaria!
            It will be appropriate to remind here that Russia has always supported Serbia in its dirty trick! It is illogical to look, because Serbia did in relation to Macedonia what Poland did in relation to Ukraine!
            I remember that before 2-3 years a Bulgarian professor, a hereditary Russophile, wrote a fiery letter of appeal to the Russians! In it, she emotionally urged the Russians to think it over! I remembered her words - Russia, helping the Serbs to bite off Macedonia from Bulgaria, has done a great sin! And she received a karmic punishment in view of the anti-Russian Ukraine! Until Russia finds the truth on the side of the Macedonian issue, it will not be able to establish fraternal relations with the Ukrainians!
            I don’t know whether it’s true or not, but Serbia received punishment! Because of her greed, taking someone else's / Macedonia / she lost and what was hers - Kossovo!
            It's the same with Greece! Took someone else's / Macedonia / and lost hers - North. Cyprus and the Greek Asia Minor coast.
            Everything could have been completely different if politicians acted according to their conscience, and not according to their immediate interests! hi
          2. pytar
            pytar 26 December 2020 15: 17
            I'll tell you the story of this sign who created it! It has a front and a back!

            This is the flag of the rebels from Struga! It is preserved in the Sofia Museum! The ego was presented at a celebration in NVIM-Sofia in April 1982 by the descendants of the Miladinov brothers - Yordanka Miladinova-Chernov and her son Kliment Chernov. The flag has been kept in their family for almost 40 years. Made by the teachers Slavka, Anastasia and Militsa Chakarovi and Tsareva and Konstanna Derebanovi. Kostadina Galabova, Katerina Nesterova, Kostadinka Vangelova and Anastasia Milusheva are also involved in sewing. They use their own funds to buy fabric and other necessary materials. The flag is sewn secretly in the house of Apostle Chakarov, in shifts and by the light of a lighted candle. Under this flag, the inhabitants of Struga fight the Turkish army and bashibozuk near Lukovo, Dolni Drimkal, Maleziat, Lokva and Zabrze.
            All the inscriptions on the banners of the Macedonian Vostanists are in pure Bulgarian! They use Bulgarian letters, some of which do not exist in the "New Macedonian" alphabet.
            Slavka's fate is interesting! She deserves a separate story!
            Slavka Chakarova-Pushkarova, Struga
            Slavka is the daughter of the Bulgarian revivalist Georgy Chakarov, closest associate of Dimitar Miladinov. She is the sister of the revolutionary Alexander Chakarov and Anastasia Uzunova. A graduate of a high school for girls in Thessaloniki, she became a teacher in her hometown, where she devoted herself to the cause of the revolution. When the first revolutionary detachment was formed in the region, Slavka, on her own initiative, made in complete secrecy the banner of the detachment of black velvet on one side and red satin on the other. Thus, it became the first revolutionary flag. Two years later, she made another frag twice as large - on one side of a lion, and on the other, a girl in chains and braided hair. This flag was waving by the chief governor of Struga, Milan Matov. When creating the first organizational unit, the Slavkinsky female squad of teachers and populists from their chefs / wedding dresses / socks and other accessories. Slavka and her sister Yelizaveta also embroidered headdresses with the inscription “Freedom or Death”. One of the greatest acts of these teachers of the time (1899-1900) was the transfer of weapons to the troops. Slavka used her sister Elizabeth's wedding to invite all her colleagues to a party in Struga. They set off across the lake in boats, in which they put rifles and ammunition at the bottom and stored them on the way to the Prechista monastery, which is not far from the lake. The wedding disguise was complete. For the next four years, Slavka taught in Skopje, where she again joined the revolutionary cause. receives the task of conducting encrypted correspondence and visiting prisons and consulates. Together with other Bulgarians, they are creating an assembly point for weapons and ammunition in preparation for the impending uprising. At the same time, they organize fundraising for the needs of the organization - through lotteries, travel on holidays, weddings, name days, etc. All teachers were trained in rifle shooting on the road. Disassembled rifles were transported under clothing to nearby villages for detachments.
            After the suppression of the uprising, Slavka left for her hometown, but through Thessaloniki, sent by her colleagues to transport dynamite cartridges and weapons. At the station she was searched and arrested, then put on trial, found guilty and after a storm of protests from Bulgaria and abroad, she was deported to Bulgaria. Before the Turkish court in Thessaloniki, she behaved heroically, ready to be hanged, and therefore ordered to bring her the best clothes.

            All of the above women were Bulgarians from Macedonia!
      2. pytar
        pytar 25 December 2020 13: 00
        the city of Krusevo (Lace in our way?)

        Krusha / bolg-mak. Pear /, that is, Krushevo - Grushevo.
        1. depressant
          depressant 25 December 2020 13: 48
          I once had a pear tree. True, the pears are small, but with a distinctly pink barrel - real honey. Yes, once ... In one of the foothills, teeming with small but proud peoples who have such a high degree of intolerance to their neighbors that they are unable to unite with them out of good feelings. They cannot really create their own state, but they do not want to join a stronger state - the proud, the great.
          1. pytar
            pytar 25 December 2020 16: 53
            I understand what you are talking about ... With our "Macedonians" one in one! laughing
            I come from Bitola, a city in Macedonia. My grandfather fled to Bulgaria from the Turks at the beginning of the previous century, and my relatives still live there. And then the "Balkan Berlin Wall" fell, I go to my relatives, drink brandy with my cousin and discuss politics ... He is an ardent "ancient Macedon"! I ask him:
            -What are you?
            -How what? Macedonian!
            -It's not a Bulgarian?
            -No! This is not a Bulgarian! Bulgarians are Tatars, and we are Slavs!

            Here I miss the fact that the ancient Macedonians had nothing to do with the Slavs, and I continue:
            - And our great-grandfather and great-grandmother, were they Bulgarians?
            -Yes! After all, they themselves thought so!
            -How so? Our ancestors are Bulgarians, I am Bulgarian, and you are not Bulgarian?

            After a long silence, he replies:
            - But they didn’t know that they were not Bulgarians!
            That's great brainwashing our Bulgarians in Macedonia! fool
            1. depressant
              depressant 25 December 2020 17: 15
              And after a short time, some writer will create a "great" epic and say that he only processed the legends heard from the old people. And they will publish that "epic" in a large circulation, start teaching in schools, and the next generations of "Macedonians" will sincerely believe that they are the descendants of some Manas the Magnificent, or even more so - giant Narts. And now the self-winding self-awareness of a small nation rises up to heaven, excluding a critical look at its own true history. Yes, it was, it was ... Everything was in the USSR. Well, you, colleague, do not get sick)))
              1. pytar
                pytar 25 December 2020 17: 45
                Yes there half a century they were brainwashed! Raised a whole new generation of Janissaries! Vesde, where there is the word "Bulgarian", "Bulgarian", was deleted and in its place they write only "Macedonian", Macedonian "! Here is an example with songs! In 1860, the brothers Konstantin and Dimitar Miladinovi from Struga compiled the" Collection of Bulgarian folk songs from Macedonia ".

                By the way, it is published in Serbia.

                Since 1945, the Macedonists have removed the word "Bulgarian" from it wherever it is! rewrite even songs, and at the same time the biography of the authors!
                Such cases are countless! The inscriptions of the most ancient churches and monasteries are being erased, the gravestones and slabs have been worn out! fool
                Interestingly, among the political elite of the Rep. Almost everyone in Macedonia is perfectly aware of the truth and their Bulgarian origin! But they are silent as dumb! There was a conversation between the first Macedonian president, Kiro Gligorov, with our ambassador to Skopje in the 90s. Ours asks:
                -Here, the wall has already fallen! No titular Yugoslavia! Why don't you tell the people the TRUTH?
                -Well, understand, we can't say! It means to destroy the state! After all, people believe what they have been taught for half a century!
                In fact, Kiro Gligorov is right! a state built on lies, weak! If it’s true, it will get destroyed! At least on the other side lies can last for a long time, but never forever!
                Another case before a month! The Macedonian Ministry of Internal Affairs, being extremely dissatisfied with Bulgaria's refusal to allow the Republic of North Macedonia's membership in the EU, went to European capitals complaining "Oh what bad Bulgarians, do not recognize our right to self-determination and self-identification!"
                Our Ministry of Internal Affairs pulled out of the Akhriva, a written request of her grandmother from the 40s. There she wrote by hand that "... I and my husband / the minister's grandfather / come from an old Bulgarian family! My husband was killed by the Serbs for being a Bulgarian and a patriot of Bulgaria." On this basis, she applied for a pension from the Bulgarian state and received it!
            2. Aviator_
              Aviator_ 25 December 2020 19: 04
              He is yary "ancient Macedon"!

              He probably thinks he is a descendant of Alexander the Great
              1. pytar
                pytar 25 December 2020 19: 47
                He probably thinks he is a descendant of Alexander the Great

                The same one! In the end, this poor state invested colossal funds in the construction of the megalomaniac kychoz "ancient" construction sites and statues! The pomposity is amazing! Here is the new center of Skopje!
                A giant statue of the "forefather" of the current Macedonians, Alexander the Great!

                Here's a different angle! Who is the horseman whose ass is in the foreground remains a mystery to me ...

                Here is the triumphal arch of Alexander the Great! Where are the heirs of antiquity without her ?! It is written on it in New Macedonian Cyrillic Macedonia! Obviously, the authors did not realize that the ancient Macedonians wrote in the Greek alphabet ... There is still a mystery, what does Skopia have to do with these, because the capital of Ancient Macedonia was the city of Pella, and it is located in Greece!

                Here on the bank of the shallow river Vardar and the ship of the "ancient Macedonian fleet" appeared!

                Here is the "Macedonian" Emperor Justinian! Inscriptions in that spirit, they won't write in Latin!

                The place for the photo is over. In the next post I will show you one more!
                1. Aviator_
                  Aviator_ 25 December 2020 20: 45
                  Especially the ship of the XV century epoch touches. It looks like there are gun ports. Do they seriously believe that Alexander the Great sent Nearchus to India on such ships?
                  1. pytar
                    pytar 25 December 2020 20: 50
                    If you listen to some fanatical Macedonist (and there are quite a few of them in Macedonia), you risk getting serious neuronal mutilation! Macedonists carry such monstrous nonsense that in truth questions arise about the mental health of these people. I don’t even know "who is older" - Ukrainians or Macedonists? They argue with each other who dug what! belay
              2. pytar
                pytar 25 December 2020 20: 01
                The statue of the "Macedonian" King Samuel in Skopia! He ruled Bulgaria from 997 to 1014. What does the "Macedonians" have to do with it?

                He has an angry expression, obviously very angry that he was renamed "Macedonian"! After all, nowhere, no one in history called him so! For some reason, Emperor Basil II, who defeated Samuel, self-aggrandized by calling himself Βασίλειος Β΄ Βουλγαροκτόνος / Vasily the Bolgar fighter /! The war is described in the Manasian Chronicles.
                And here is the Old Bulgarian inscription telling about the battle at the Key between the Bulgarian Tsar Samuel and the Romans, led by Emperor Vasily I.
            3. Korsar4
              Korsar4 25 December 2020 23: 41
              And only two generations.
          2. Astra wild2
            Astra wild2 25 December 2020 22: 25
            Lyudmila Yakovlevna, do you write poetry? I like it
            "In one of the foothills", or rather the Caucasus?
            1. depressant
              depressant 25 December 2020 23: 18
              Yes, Vera, in one of the foothills of the Caucasus. There was a case. So, the psychology of small nations is clear to me. The Macedonians, even though statues, created, so to speak, iconic evidence. And those - everything that was, led in a state of vile devastation, without creating anything themselves, neither then, nor even more so after. But great.
      3. nedgen
        nedgen 25 December 2020 22: 48
        Sorry Lyudmila, but the city of Krushevo will have to be corrected by Grushevo. The name does not come from lace but from pear. hi
        1. depressant
          depressant 25 December 2020 23: 21
          Thank you colleague for the clarification. Pears are always wonderful - something peaceful, summer, kind. And then the "kruchina" also got into my head. In spite of everything, we should not all twist)))
  • Korsar4
    Korsar4 25 December 2020 06: 06
    The comparison is good with the test.
  • Vasiliev S.
    Vasiliev S. 25 December 2020 07: 13
    Interesting ...
    I did not know about the enmity between the Bulgarians and Serbs.
    1. alatanas
      alatanas 25 December 2020 20: 38
      Here's more about the connection and the Serbo-Bulgarian war:
  • Prometheus
    Prometheus 25 December 2020 07: 40
    I Balkan War (in which, by the way, airplanes and armored cars were used for the first time in the world)

    But what about the Italian-Turkish war a year earlier, in which enemy positions were first bombed from an airplane?
    1. VLR
      25 December 2020 08: 09
      No, airships were used for bombing in this war. Also from the air, but not from planes.
      1. Ryazan87
        Ryazan87 25 December 2020 16: 28
        In the Italo-Turkish war, aircraft were still used by the Italians for reconnaissance and for bombing. And then, and then - for the first time:
        - On October 23, 1911, the commander of the squadron, Captain Carlo Piazza, made the first reconnaissance flight in his Blerio XI. This date is considered the first use of aviation for military purposes in world history.

        - On November 1, 1911, Lieutenant Giulio Cavotti performed the first aerial bombardment, dropping 4 hand grenades from his Etrich II "Taube" aircraft. Three grenades were dropped on the Tajura oasis, and one - Ain-Zara. This was also the first combat use of the aircraft.

        - January 24, 1912 Captain Carlo Piazza made the first aerial photography.
        - On March 4, 1912, Lieutenant Giulio Cavotti conducted the first night reconnaissance flight and the first night bombardment.
        Balloons were used to adjust artillery fire
  • Cure72
    Cure72 25 December 2020 11: 23
    Thank you very much for the continuation!
    I read it in one breath.
  • stoqn477
    stoqn477 25 December 2020 11: 30
    Quote: VasilievS
    Interesting ...
    I did not know about the enmity between the Bulgarians and Serbs.

    There is a reason for enmity. After the unification of the two parts of Bulgaria (the Principality of Bulgaria and Eastern Rumelia) in 1885, which in Bulgaria we call the unification of Bulgaria, everyone expects the Ottoman Empire to try to regain its positions by force. All parts of the army and volunteers were sent to the southern border to stop the expected attack by the Sultan's army. Nothing like this. The Sultan does not dare to take such actions. On the other hand, the "Slavic brothers" from Serbia decided that they were left empty-handed in this "expansion" of Bulgaria, and began military operations. An easy win is expected. The army is young, there are no senior officers, the Russian advisers are leaving on the orders of their emperor, who also decided that we have no right to such actions. Therefore, this war is unofficially called "the war of captains against generals." Initially, they were successful because there were no military units against them, but only border detachments and volunteers. Nevertheless, they managed to give the army time to return from the south and start a battle against the Serbs. The carriage ordered by the Serbian king for the Sofia parade remains unused. There was very little left to hold another parade, but in Belgrade, but Austria-Hungary told Bulgaria that we must stop so as not to meet her troops. This is our recent friction with the Serbs, so to speak. In the Middle Ages there were also military clashes between Bulgarians and Serbs. Most of the time Belgrade in the Middle Ages was a Bulgarian territory.
  • Trilobite Master
    Trilobite Master 25 December 2020 11: 45
    No, after all, writing about the history of the Slavic brothers in the Balkans is still something to do. wassat
    I started to write a comment - such a muddy stream of consciousness turned out - I erased everything nafig. I won't write anything - only my head swells from all these subtleties, nuances and details. I don’t understand anything in this Balkan cuisine, but to figure it out, you need to spend years or plant half a liter in one person - then everything will become clear, but only for a while, until the next morning. wassat
    Austria, Hungary, Turkey, Greece, Serbs, Bulgarians, Croats, Bosniaks, Albanians (some kind of rudiment of antiquity from the times of King Pyrrhus), now there are also "Macedonians" who clearly have nothing to do with ancient Macedonia - who are all these people? What do they want from each other? What do they want from me?
    Yes, and Macedonia itself, "walking" on a geographical map, like a wandering island, as if just a mockery of common sense ... Now also "northern", to confuse everyone in general ... Let's divide it into two more states - "Absolutely North Macedonia "and" North-South Macedonia ". I wouldn't be surprised if it comes to that. There, after all, probably back in the XNUMXth century. some Sprtko Sinolice quarreled with Tvrtko Crvenozadnik, the insult was not forgotten and their descendants remember everything - how can they live in a single state?
    Leave me alone! I don’t want anymore!
    Thank you, Valery, it was very interesting, but I can't do this anymore. I am retiring to heal the mental wounds of the brain.
    wassat laughing wassat
    1. depressant
      depressant 25 December 2020 12: 10
      Misha !! Awesome !!! wassat crying )))
      Only without half a liter, please!
      It is best to throw the map aside and forget about the problem (in fact, I wrote it sharper, but censorship may work, which looks like this am ). And this, please note, is not extremism and not humiliation of the national self-consciousness of the great peoples of small mountain gorges, but a means of relieving tension caused by the intensity of disputes over priorities. We need to somehow maintain our sanity in a situation where they lose theirs.
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 25 December 2020 16: 34
        Good evening, Lyudmila. crying
        Only without half a liter, please!

        You are a little wrong, here the alternative is simple - either half a liter or a machine gun. Narodishko is very peculiar, they don't know how to drink, that's why they don't drink, but they know what a machine gun is from childhood. laughing drinks
        1. Korsar4
          Korsar4 25 December 2020 23: 43
          Classic: I drank in the morning - the day is free.
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 27 December 2020 00: 20
            "Freedom is a realized necessity" - he began to be realized and immediately drank. laughing
            There is still a dispute about the priority of the statement, who was the first to say "meow": Spinoza, Hegel or Marx, but, which is typical, all three are Jews. (no anti-simplicity and incitement, a biographical fact, although comrades doubt about Hegel).
            PS Here Lyudmila will say again - there are jokes-humorYsty gathered here, no more serious about anything. sad
            1. Korsar4
              Korsar4 27 December 2020 05: 59
              What can you do.

              "The guys are having a serious conversation" (c).
    2. Undecim
      Undecim 25 December 2020 13: 35
      I don't understand anything in this Balkan cuisine
      Key phrase. I lived and worked there for almost three years. The only thing. what I can say with confidence - they often do not understand themselves, which has been used for many years by both adventurers and politicians. Over there, a Bulgarian writes that these are primordially Bulgarian lands and sculpts the example of Ukraine. There would be Serbs and Greeks on the site, there would now be a powerful srach. It would be interesting to see how they would have fought for the "ancestral lands".
      1. Trilobite Master
        Trilobite Master 25 December 2020 14: 34
        Quote: Undecim
        It would be interesting to see how they would have fought for the "ancestral lands".

        It would quickly get bored. I don't think this is much more interesting than the srachs about Ukraine. For a long time they have nothing to say to each other.
        Although, for us, such a discussion, probably, could have a certain novelty. In Russia and Ukraine, the disputants operate mainly with general, global, on a global scale, for us, if an event is not of a planetary scale, then we do not claim it, here, most likely, events, names and geographical names of a slightly different scale. Like, "Back in 765, the voivode Boyevid Crnoevich put a memorial stone at the confluence of the Savsky brook and Rzhava Banskaya in honor of the annexation of the Rzhavskoy volost to the zhupe of Mirovid Gromovnik!" "Yes, only Mirovid Gromovnik was a Bulgarian prince, a descendant of Asparukh, the Bulgarian chronicler Theophilus Stravsky testifies to this in a message dated 1243!"
        1. Undecim
          Undecim 25 December 2020 14: 52
          In the commentary below, Boyan Ivanov already sets out the Bulgarian point of view. They have no middle ground, the Bulgarian either does not understand anything in history, or knows the issue very well, so his comments on the article will be drawn, no less. Only there are no opponents on the site.
          1. depressant
            depressant 25 December 2020 17: 02
            I’m not an opponent. I float with the flow of history, peering into the possible twists and turns of my own life, which could be fatal and ...

            And here again frost, snowless winter
            I put sails on the roofs,
            and a long evening - he has not yet passed
            he is not the last day
            unlived week ...
            What's outside the window?
            And there the lights are burning
            drilling green, white,
            moving scarlet
            the face of darkness
            and lined up in a row,
            flashlights salute her
            barely noticeable halo.
          2. Trilobite Master
            Trilobite Master 25 December 2020 17: 28
            I read Boyana. I believe I was right with the construction of the argumentation used. I messed up a bit with dates, events and names (especially since I took them from the ceiling), but everything is correct. laughing
            To tighten up the nomenclature of geographical names and proper names a little, and with my imagination here on the site I can perform no worse than Boyan, having the reputation of a great intellectual and connoisseur of the Balkans. Hardly anyone is so familiar with the topic to refute me, except perhaps the Bulgarian colleagues ... But here there will already be a battle not of knowledge, but of authorities, besides, unlike my opponent, of course, I will write in my native language, plus I will try to provoke him to rash statements about Russia and the Russians ... In general, I think I have every chance of winning a complete and unconditional victory in the discussion, thereby rewriting the history of the Balkan peoples in the minds of our esteemed colleagues. laughing
            I would like to address my Bulgarian colleagues. Everything I said above is a funny chat and nothing more. If you hurt someone, I apologize. I do not intend to enter into a discussion about Bulgarian history with representatives of the Bulgarian people under any circumstances, because I believe that before teaching someone his own history, you must first understand yourself.
            Smile, gentlemen, smile!
            1. alatanas
              alatanas 25 December 2020 20: 48
              The USSR and the USA decided to divide the Moon into spheres of influence.
              The "Macedonian" learned about this. In the evening I went out of the house to pee in nature under the light of the moon.
              Looked at the moon and said:
              - Ex Luno, land of Macedonian! And you ke those we divide?
              [Eh Moon, Macedonian land! And will we share you?]
              1. Keyser soze
                Keyser soze 26 December 2020 10: 43

                Santa Claus crossing the Macedonian border: - Well, at last he returned home ... laughing
    3. Catfish
      Catfish 25 December 2020 16: 45
      Leave me alone! I don’t want anymore!

      Misha, hello and thank you for your brilliant irony and my high spirits. good
      Why don't you write something like an article on the alternative history of the Balkan anthill (or gadyushnik) in the spirit of Arkady Averchenko in the "New Satyricrna", write and post it on our History by April XNUMXst. drinks
      1. Trilobite Master
        Trilobite Master 25 December 2020 19: 16
        Uncle Kostya, I already have several unpublished materials of this kind, not on the Balkans, of course. smile
        For a long time already, I and other colleagues have expressed the idea of ​​establishing a section "Humor" at VO. Now, when they establish it, then we'll talk. Oh, how can we talk! Fun and tasteful! On a grand scale!
        In the meantime, not worth it, because I noticed that humor on the pages of VO is not particularly welcome, many come here with completely serious faces and intentions and our periodic, I would even say permanent scoffing annoys them. Well, why procreate dashingly? smile
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 25 December 2020 19: 27
          Well. we will wait for the side to mature until "Humor", then "fly". laughing

          1. Astra wild2
            Astra wild2 25 December 2020 21: 59
            Constantine, what a sadist he is. : stuck a corpulent saber into a bull? I set one on fire once. It banged thoroughly
          2. Catfish
            Catfish 25 December 2020 22: 19
            Hardly, rather a powder cracker, in order to give acceleration. Although who knows them, the Vietnamese ... laughing
            1. Lexus
              Lexus 26 December 2020 02: 21
              There is an easier way - "enter the flyover". (FROM) laughing
          3. depressant
            depressant 26 December 2020 09: 51
            First, I typed "strongly against the section" Humor "on the VO website." Now I am simply against it, because I do not accept categoricalness. If there are moments of humor on the historical section, then spontaneously, among people who respect each other. With all the understanding of the commentators who came to the topic to express their serious thoughts on it, but who, having seen the stream of laughing parties, begin to feel uncomfortable and, as it were, superfluous, I am against a special section "Humor", where such "minutes" could arise constantly ... For they will not arise. There is a fear that in a short time the section will turn into a cesspool in which inadequate people will begin to poison the adequate. Bans will begin. And then the site will have to cease the existence of this section.
            There are serious topics on which it is indecent to joke. There are those on whom it is not a sin to say hello. Let the Authors communicate with commentators, creating an atmosphere of trust and ease, as Vyacheslav Olegovich Shpakovsky does. And then on many topics a benevolent atmosphere will arise among its circle of readers, and newcomers will begin to feel more relaxed. But for the Authors this is difficult, isn't it?)))
            I am carefully reviewing everything. Among the humorous remarks - intersperses on the themes of those people who do not participate in the "five minutes". And if the comments are sensible, then the "humorists" rate them highly with likes. Nobody leaves offended, but only with likes. You need to approve the "speakers" and comments. Otherwise it turns out arrogant. Like is like a thrown bone. No one should feel like a stranger, no one should feel left out.
            People are lonely now. They need warmth.
            1. Phil77
              Phil77 26 December 2020 17: 20
              Quote: depressant
              People are lonely now. They need warmth.

              Lyudmila Yakovlevna, hello!
              But excuse me! Why are they lonely? Many have families, work, colleagues and everything that comes with it. Communication has not been canceled, you slightly * peppered it *. No, I understand that there are lonely people, for whom the Internet is a kind of outlet. But the majority lives a normal * internet-free * life, and an Internet for them is just ... well, a kind of club, a club of like-minded people, a club of lovers to communicate incognito. Something like that. And yes! to communicate with nice people! And about heat. Well, warmth can to give a family, a family in which everything is fine.
              Didn't I * pep *? hi
            2. Catfish
              Catfish 27 December 2020 02: 09
              No one should feel like a stranger, no one should feel left out.

              "Happiness is a gift for everyone, and let no one leave offended" (c)

              Sorry, Lyudmila love , this does not happen, there will always be offended and there will always be dissatisfied, and some are just like that by nature. There is nothing you can do about it. And it makes no sense to focus on them.

              ... then on many topics a benevolent atmosphere will arise among its circle of readers, and newcomers will begin to feel more relaxed.

              In my opinion, on "History" everything is exactly like that. smile

              ... I am against the special section "Humor", .............. There is a fear that in a short time the section will turn into a cesspool, in which inadequate people will start poisoning adequate ones.

              Well, this is already enough on the site, and exactly where there is a bickering "for politics".

              And with the section "Humor", in my opinion, you can try, especially since I am sure that our Mikhail will head it, and he can rinse anyone and completely within the framework of the rules, and if the offended run into a ban, it will be a good road , like the unforgettable Golovan, the kingdom of heaven and best wishes. laughing drinks
              1. depressant
                depressant 27 December 2020 09: 42
                As you wish! )))
                This is where I will inflict an eternal ban.
                1. Catfish
                  Catfish 27 December 2020 09: 52
                  This is where I will inflict an eternal ban.

                  Why are such sad thoughts?

                  "What are you, my friend, are you sad?
                  Does Paris prevent you from living? "(C) smile love
                  1. depressant
                    depressant 27 December 2020 10: 34
                    Dear colleague, good morning! )))
                    You see, as soon as I begin to speak the truth - the bedrock, homespun, condo, there is a warning. I have two of them. Many times on different topics I typed comments, some of which took a long time, and then I erased them! And to be hypocritical is difficult, if not given by nature. So I'm sad. When it is not just necessary to give out earrings to all the sisters, but it is urgently necessary to do this, but it is impossible in the form I have proposed, I am angry. To myself. For the inability, excluding hypocrisy, to express an idea so that the Administration, understanding everything, but gritting its teeth, shoved its ban back into its holster.
                    Well, if Misha is busy with bringing the territory into an acceptable form, he can take part. And then, if I go there and, pursuing only good goals, start - albeit allegorically, but uncontrollably speaking, the relevant people qualify us as a criminal political group.
                    1. Catfish
                      Catfish 27 December 2020 10: 45
                      I have two of them.

                      Just two smile , I had five, it was seven, two were written off, obviously for "old age".
                      ... that the relevant people qualify us as a criminal political group.

                      So if you keep looking at the "appropriate people", then what for then all this is needed.
                      Try to be an optimistic pessimist, it's not so difficult, but otherwise, you can't change people, and even here half is engaged only in banal self-assertion at someone else's expense, in real life, apparently, it does not work. So is it worth paying attention to. smile love
                      1. depressant
                        depressant 27 December 2020 11: 46
                        What optimism ...
                        Here I wrote "uncontrollably v.ya, k, a, t, b", and appeared "uncontrollably to speak." Either the general matrix corrects, or imperceptibly for me - my own. Already automatically. I type one, the inner gatehouse controls my fingers. Not her own mistress. I have no humor, an evil satire, the meaning of which disappears under the influence of internal and external corrective circumstances. So what? We will poison jokes in the section "Humor" - with a gray beard? )))
                      2. Catfish
                        Catfish 27 December 2020 12: 00
                        Mishka's humor has no gray beard, if he wears it at all. Yes, and it is unlikely that there will be some jokes, here men generally do not go into "politics" in principle, and why, everything is clear to themselves, and to reeducate those who, by maturity, have not reached their minds, is not only hopeless, but and harmful to one's own nervous system. And "Humor" is an outlet.
                        How at one time they went to Raikin: "The inventor of this gizmo was not allowed to attend a foreign exhibition, he did not go through an X-ray, his tests were not the same, so they sent me instead of him ..." Remember? I cannot vouch for the accuracy of the citation, but the meaning is the same. smile
                      3. depressant
                        depressant 27 December 2020 12: 32
                        So what? Has Raikin changed the situation for the better? No! He changed it for the worse, giving people the false impression that the Soviet government had its finger on the pulse of the country, while it kept it on its own wishlist.
                      4. Catfish
                        Catfish 27 December 2020 12: 51
                        Luda! Well, you can't be so serious! Not everyone in the country was outright stunned, piously believing in this:

                        Rather, everything was exactly the opposite, and how much they "had a finger on the pulse" became clear, had only to drive off 100 km. from Moscow, and even to those who lived there even more so.
                        And Raikin did not create any impression, they watched and listened to him only for the sake of neighing at the witty satire. So you're in vain.
                        Did you visit Skomorokhov's "Suvorov Kitchen" today? Our seryoga is already in the morning cheerful to complete "surprise". laughing drinks
                      5. depressant
                        depressant 27 December 2020 12: 58
                        Colleague, but I'm not serious at all, I'm always ready to "neigh". Okay, I'm going to the kitchen of a person with a speaking surname)))
  • Korsar4
    Korsar4 25 December 2020 23: 45
    But our "horde" is more consistent. And smiling is easier than sucking an eyebrow.
  • pytar
    pytar 25 December 2020 18: 09

    Emblem of the Internal Macedonian Revolutionary Organization (1919)

    What language is the inscription in? I will translate into neighboring Balkan languages:
    Original (1919): Freedom or Smrt. For the rich man Motherland Macedonia.
    Bulgarian: Freedom or smrt. For the rich man Motherland Macedonia.
    Zam .: letter ь at the end of the word, they stop writing according to the spelling reform of the Bulgarian. language 1921
    New Macedonian / since 1946 /: Sloboda or smrt. For Porobenat Tatkovin Macedonia
    Serbian: Sloboda or smrt. For beating the mother of Macedonia
    Greek: Ελευθερία ή θάνατος. Για την υποδουλωμένη Πατρίδα Μακεδονία
    1. Trilobite Master
      Trilobite Master 25 December 2020 19: 09
      Perhaps you `re right. But I suspect that there are a lot of people who will not agree with you and will bring their proofs of their innocence.
      If you want to know my personal opinion on such issues, then it seems to me that it is foolish for all participants in this process to measure up with old grievances, to present territorial claims to each other in the current situation. It is impossible to disassemble and resolve all the contradictions that have been accumulating between neighbors for more than a thousand years - so is it worth remembering them?
      Tell me: why do you need Macedonia? Just? To amuse their national pride, they say, returned, wiped their nose to evil Serbs or not less evil Greeks? smile
      However, if you want to fight - fight, if you want to fight - fight. If you're lucky, a big and truly formidable uncle will come, put all participants in the process in a knee-elbow position and stop your arguments by a willful decision. Then peace will come. If you are unlucky - this formidable uncle will also turn out to be cunning, then he will incite you to fight further, and he will help both, receiving his own benefits for his help, without risking anything.
      Let me make a reservation right away - Russia now does not pretend to be either a formidable uncle or a cunning one because of its weakness. Look among other partners. smile
      1. pytar
        pytar 25 December 2020 20: 34
        Perhaps you `re right. But I suspect that there are a lot of people who will not agree with you and will bring their proofs of their innocence.

        You know, there are always a lot of people who go astray! I will tell you my 4 reasons why you need to fight against lies and lies!
        1. A lie, a lie, always leads to future complications ... It's like a cancerous tumor! If not removed in time, it will lead to death! By agreeing to deception, you become an accomplice!
        2.If you are a normal person, how can you agree, for example, from hardening that "Muscovites are not Russians at all, but ancient Ukrainians are the same! Muscovites are the worst enemies of Ukrainians" And so that someone would build a state on this basis? I myself am a Macedonian, how can I give up my Bulgarian roots? So it is with a third of Bulgarians! How can I agree with the assertions of the Macedonists that all our national heroes, a third of our cultural and intellectual elite, "are not Bulgarians" given the position that they themselves were considered Bulgarians, and were the most prominent patriots of Bulgaria?
        3. Lying can last for a long time, but not forever ... If your closest relative is ill with schizophrenia and swears at you, will you give him up? Whatever he was, he is Vedic and remains your own family! I am deeply convinced that the disease will pass, our people there will blow out of the fog and recover! Not immediately, not soon, but with patience and tact, everything is comprehensible!
        4. No Bulgarian who loves his country can give up his history and culture! From your songs, from your language, from your ancestors! It would mean to stop being a BULGARIN! Exactly suicide!
        Tell me: why do you need Macedonia? Just?

        Kolega Keyser Soze (Eugene) explained in his comment, we do not need Macedonia. We are not going to conquer it or annex it! But we are categorically opposed to these newly minted "ancient Macedonians" stealing our Bulgarian history! Let them come up with something else, we do not mind. Let if they want to declare themselves Martians. For us, they will remain our relatives who have contracted a severe schizophrenic illness. We see them as people in need of sympathy and help.
        One Greek expressed the situation very well, making a parallel with Ukraine:
        Rooting ukrov on the example of Bulgarians from pseudo-Macedonia. UKRAINIAN CRISIS IN THE EYES OF A GREEK
        Let me make a reservation right away - Russia now does not pretend to be either a formidable uncle or a cunning one because of its weakness. Look among other partners

        It is precisely in the given case, unfortunately, Russia did not have the most so to say ... respectable role! Yes, until now, for political reasons, "Macedonism" have support in the Kremlin. This position in the wrong has led to the fact that Russia has given so many victims in the Balkans, lost them ... This is a fundamentally wrong strategy! You cannot stand on the side of a lie because of some temporary interesting! Give only short-term results! After all, truth is not in power, but in truth is power! Therefore, I would prefer that Russia, if it didn’t help, then at least didn’t prevent us from sorting out our affairs! We will find a way, at least do not interfere! hi
        1. Trilobite Master
          Trilobite Master 25 December 2020 21: 47
          I do not know what ideas are being planted in Macedonia now.
          I can say one thing: you are right about your relatives - you have your own. Ukrainians are our own for us, Macedonians, apparently, for you.
          It is important to understand that neither the Bulgarians with the Macedonians, nor the Russians with the Ukrainians are no longer a single people, but two pairs of closely related peoples with a common history. They can't steal your story because this one and theirs too.
          When was the last time you spoke with teenagers? My son just recently left this age. It was difficult. Could get nasty to the mother, flare up, do stupid things "out of spite". Overcame. So it is with the peoples. You won't explain anything to anyone now. They grow up - they themselves will understand, that's the only way.
          The main thing is to understand that they are already independent and do not need guardianship. Then everything will be fine.
          In addition, I am afraid that other peoples also consider the Macedonians "theirs" and they certainly have their own reasons for this. They also need to be considered and respected.
          And about the disease you are wrong. This is not a disease, but simply youthful maximalism, nothing more.
          1. pytar
            pytar 25 December 2020 22: 29
            I completely agree with you! good You are all right! hi
          2. Korsar4
            Korsar4 25 December 2020 23: 48
            You can ask a personal question about your son: when did it start and what time did it come out?
            For family use only.
            1. Trilobite Master
              Trilobite Master 26 December 2020 09: 42
              Probably started at 13, ended closer to 16, i.e. just over two years ... Approximately.
              1. Korsar4
                Korsar4 26 December 2020 10: 11
                Thank you. Seem to be. Also the range is 14-16 years old. But as far as it is over: it is too early to even summarize intermediate results.
        2. Marine engineer
          Marine engineer 25 December 2020 22: 52
          "We'll find a way,"

          A lie can be convincing, plausible and even attractive, but it can only defend itself with a new lie, otherwise there is no other way, and this is its weakness, an Achilles heel.
          As for "Macedonism", I am on the side of the Bulgarians.
          Do not give up. Show us the way.
          1. pytar
            pytar 25 December 2020 23: 43
            A lie can be convincing, plausible and even attractive, but it can only defend itself with a new lie, otherwise there is no other way, and this is its weakness, an Achilles heel.

            Neither add nor subtract! Respect to you! hi
    2. Astra wild2
      Astra wild2 25 December 2020 22: 08
      Putar, my opinion: the basis of Bulgarian is the Old Slavonic language, and the Serbian and Macedonian "spelling" are stupid pranksters. I follow the rules of correctness
      1. pytar
        pytar 25 December 2020 23: 28
        Peter, my opinion: at the heart of the Bulgarian is the Old Slavonic language, and the Serbian and Macedonian "spelling" are stupid pranksters. I follow the rules of correctness

        I agree with you on something. But I'll tell you my opinion! How the common Slavic alphabet, Cyril and Metodiy created the VERBO! Already after their death in Bulgaria, under the order and trusteeship of Tsar Boris I, the students of KiM created KIRILLITS! It is unlikely that Tsar Boris had ambitions to create another alphabet for all Slavs! The Cyrillic alphabet was "fitted" to the Slavic dialect that was most widespread in Bulgaria at that time, while the Proto-Bulgarian / Proto-Bulgarians / influence was clearly traced. Despite the fact that by this time they had already decently Slavized, they still constituted an influential part of the aristocracy in the kingdom! When Boris introduces Christianity, a riot breaks out among these Velmozhes, and he kills 51 boyars. Recently in Bulgaria archaeologists have found their grave. So Boris probably intended to use the Kirrillitz only for the needs of his state! In that sense, it is much more correct to call her BULGARITSA! But the Cyrillic / Bulgarian / quickly picks up and spreads, because it is more practical, easier to use!

        Agree, it's more difficult to write something in Glagolitic!

        Here it should be noted the advantages of the Bulgarian and Russian Cyrillic versions! Each letter corresponds to the sound of speech! It is written as they say! Rational and simple! For example, I am surprised by the traditionalism of the British and French! Especially the British, who, in principle, are very practical, with all that they write one thing and utter another! what

        As for the Serbian alphabet, it is distorted for "originality". And the Macedonian, remade straight from the goal, so that it differs from the Bulgarian! Replaced several Bulgarian letters with Serbian, 1 Bulgarian for 2 Serbian! So they could say - you see, we are not Bulgarians! fool
  • Keyser soze
    Keyser soze 25 December 2020 11: 58
    Actually, the picture of North Macedonia is similar to Ukraine. The primordial Bulgarian lands, which the Serbian propaganda and internationalism of the Comintern turned into pseudo-Macedonian, invented the language and the Bulgarians were called Tatars, and hatred of everything Bulgarian was brought up from childhood.
    Macedonia is the romantic heart of Bulgaria. Because we must also remember Kubera, brother of Asparukh, who settled in these lands, and Clement of Ohridsky, who made a kirrilitsa and the Bulgarian Tsar Samuel and Gotse Delchev, who said that he was a Macedonian, but would shoot anyone who said that he was not Bulgarian.

    In the 21st century, this is already the past. If the pseudo-Macedonians don't want to be Bulgarians, that's their business. But ... stealing our language, history and culture is not. That is why there is a Bulgarian veto on the start of Macedonian negotiations with the EU. They will correct the textbooks, correct the attitude towards the neighbors, and then we will take a look.
    1. Undecim
      Undecim 25 December 2020 12: 53
      This is why there is a Bulgarian veto on the start of Macedonian negotiations with the EU
      Mal bug, yes smelly.
    2. Astra wild2
      Astra wild2 25 December 2020 21: 50
      Keuser, I liked Dolchev's words, and who is he? I know very little about the Balkans. Only thanks to the site, I found out: Futekova, Vrevskaya, somehow I hadn’t heard of her before, I recently read about the Samara banner.
      1. Keyser soze
        Keyser soze 26 December 2020 10: 53
        Keuser, I liked Dolchev's words, and who is he?

        Delchev, Gotse Delchev. We now have such a city. He is a revolutionary and fighter for the liberation of Macedonia from the Turks. After the Berlin Treaty, large areas of Bulgaria remained under the Turks and because of this, in the end Bulgaria fought both in the Balkan Wars and in the First World War. Basically Bulgaria consists of 3 main regions - Mizia, Trakia, Macedonia. Half of the population is still Macedonian. Although now my friend Pavlos Melas will come and say - bro, you are completely new here, not even 1400 years ... laughing
  • Sovpadenie
    Sovpadenie 25 December 2020 14: 38
    The situation with Islamization reminded me of other regions of Yugoslavia. In 2019, he visited Montenegro and Bosnia and Herzegovina (Mostar). How different there are perceptions and attitudes towards their past. Montenegrins, for example, are proud that they did not submit to the Ottomans and that they kept their faith. And the Bosnians are quite the opposite. There was a feeling that they deliberately "stick out" their "Muslimness" and on this basis distance themselves from the Slavs of the Gentiles
  • pytar
    pytar 25 December 2020 14: 46
    What is the ethnogenesis of the "Macedonians" and why are they Bulgarians?

    The first historical information about the appearance of the Proto-Bulgarians in Macedonia dates back to 680, that is, from the moment of the creation of the Bulgarian state on the Balkan Peninsula. The offensive of the Bulgarians in Byzantium went in two directions - the Bulgarians Kanas Asparuha marched from the north through Dobruzhdi to Mizia. Ego brother Kuber went from Panonia to Macedonia. While Asparuh was routing the Byzantines in Dobrujda, Kuber besieged Soloniki.

    After the establishment of the Bulgarian state, ethno-religious diversity was preserved in the next 2 centuries. The Bulgarians were the state-forming people, the Slavs were the majority, and the remnants of the Thracian tribes also lived here. Since time, these three ethnic groups have merged into a monolithic alloy - the PEOPLE which withstood all the cruel tests in the next 13 centuries.
    Let's go back to the beginning of the 9th century. Until the middle of the eleventh century, the population of Macedonia did not have any ethnically isolated identity. At that time, Macedonia was already within the borders of the first Bulgarian kingdom for 2 centuries. And then Tsar Boris I the Baptist, did his great job! He introduced one religion for all - Orthodoxy! Under his tutelage, the disciples of Kirril and Methodius in Preslav and Ohrid created Kirrilitsa. Those catalysts appeared that led to the rapid formation of one nation with one religion, one language and writing on the territory of Mizia, Thrace and Macedonia - BALGARI !!!

    That is, the first ethno-national identity of the population of Macedonia became BULGARIAN!
    ––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––– –––––

    In subsequent centuries, the history of Macedonia is an inseparable part of the history of Bulgaria. In some periods, the Bulgarian state remained only in Macedonia, while Mizia and Thrace fell under foreign rule. Ohrid was even the capital of the Bulgarian state.

    Here it is interesting to mention the falsifications of modern Macedonists, who insist that Tsar Samuel is not a Bulgarian, but a "Macedonian" king. At the same time, they are silent that in all historical sources he is called the Tsar of Bulgaria. And the emperor Vasily II, whom he still managed to defeat Samuel, is called "Bulgaroidets" (gratski: Βουλγαροκτόνος) - Bulgarian fighter.

    During the Ottoman slavery, it was from Macedonia that the process of the Renaissance of the Bulgarians began! Samokovsky / Pirin Macedonia / Monk Paisiy Hilendarsky in 1762 writes "Slavic-Bulgarian History"!

    In all tax registers, the majority of the Christian population of Macedonia is referred to as Bulgarian. There is not a single "Macedonian" out there!

    But the most categorical, unequivocal evidence for the predominant Bulgarian population in Macedonia is one event that happened in 1870! I will write about him and subsequent events in my next post! hi
    1. pytar
      pytar 25 December 2020 15: 08
      And so, in 1870 in the Ottoman Empire, Sultan Abdul Azis, decides (not without koros) to follow the age-old aspirations of the Bulgarians, and allow them to create their own Bulgarian Orthodox Exarchia! Until that time, the Bulgarians did not have it. The Greeks, the Serbs who had freed themselves earlier, had and actively promoted their influence among the Bulgarian population of the Empire. And how to determine the territorial girth of the future Exarchia, because a diverse population lived on the Balkan territories of the Empire! Sultan Abdul Azis conducts PLEBISCIDES / REFERENDUM /, among the Balkan Christians! An area where more than 50% of the population will vote for their future WPT membership is included in its girth! According to the results of the referendum, Christians from almost all of Mizia, Thrace and Macedonia are self-determined as BULGARIANS and are included in the BPE diocese!

      Ferman / Decree / Sultan Abdul Azis from February 27, 1870 defines its boundary and marks the beginning of its existence! The decree is written in Turkish and Bulgarian!

      After the victory of the Russian army in the Russian-Turkish war of 1877-1878 at the conclusion of the San Stefano peace treaty, the borders of the future Bulgaria are determined on the basis of that very plebiscide on self-determination of the majority of the population! Annex card to the contract / with green my notes /:

      In order to satisfy the appetites of its allies Serbs and Romanians, Russia still gives them a part of the Bulgarian ethno-space, namely the Nish / Pirot / region and Northern Dobruzhda. The region where by 1878 the Bulgarian population remained the majority, and Dobruzhda, by the way, had never been Romanian before in history.
      Unfortunately, the Berlin Treaty revises San Stefano and a third of the Bulgarian people, having been free for only 3 months, will find themselves under Ottoman slavery! The Turks returning to Macedonia and perpetrating terrible atrocities in revenge.

      To be continued ...
      1. pytar
        pytar 25 December 2020 15: 47
        As you can see from the maps, the Bulgarian people formed at the same time and lived for 11 centuries on the same territory encompassing Mizia, Thrace and Macedonia! It is clear that after the Berlin Treaty, the main goal, the common national aspiration of the Bulgarian people, became - the liberation of the remaining under the foreign rule of the Bulgarians and the unification into one Whole Bulgarian State!

        The first uprisings of the Macedonian Bulgarians flare up immediately after the Berlin Treaty. And in 1893 the first organization was created in Soloniki, whose goal was to liberate Macedonia. In its first charter, it is called the Bulgarian Internal Macedonian-Odrin Revolutionary Organization.

        Later in 1905, in order to avoid the negative reaction of Serbia, Greece and the great forces, they renamed it to the Internal Macedonian-Odrin revolutionary organization, removing the word "Bulgarian".

        VMRO statutes and documents written in pure Bulgarian.
        All neighbors look at the aspirations of the Macedonian Bulgarians to free themselves and join Bulgaria, at the knife! That is why VMRO perceives the course of creating an initially independent Macedonia, with the subsequent unification from Bulgaria, as an example, to the Union of the Principality of Bulgaria with the East. Rumelia 1885 The reaction of the Greeks and Serbs is becoming more and more hostile! It gets to the point that the Macedonian Bulgarians ask the Sultan to allow them to carry weapons to defend themselves against the Greek couples crossing the border, which terrorize more of them than the Turks. Serbia, on its side, is trying to send priests and teachers in Macedonia, but they are met with hostility from the local population, which sometimes even kills them.
        VMRO organizes a large-scale uprising / t.n. Ilindensko-Preobrazhensky / in 1903 The call to the people was written in the purest Bulgarian language!

        Unfortunately, it was suppressed in the blood of the Turks, and thousands of Bulgarians flee to free Bulgaria.
        To be continued.
        1. pytar
          pytar 25 December 2020 15: 51
          By the way, the banner on the screensaver of the station contains the Bulgarian national flag - white, green, red.
          1. pytar
            pytar 25 December 2020 16: 08
            As a result of the First, Second Balkan Wars and WWI, most of Macedonia falls within the borders of Greece and Serbia. The local population continues to fight against the new conquerors! It should be mentioned that these new conquerors turned out to be worse than the previous ones! At least the Turks did not forbid the Bulgarians to speak their own language and pray in their churches! And the Greeks and Serbs pursued a harsh assimilation policy, taking away those few rights from the Bulgarians, which they had in the Ottoman Empire! Theories about "Slavic-speaking Elins" and "Southern Serbs" came into use, respectively in Greece and Serbia. On their side, many Macedonian Bulgarians, so as not to fall under reprisals, began to call themselves Macedonians / by the name of the region /, which in no way contradicts their Bulgarian origin. It's like when a resident of the Tver region is called Tverchanini, or a resident of the Novgorod region is called a Novgorodian. As one of the leaders of VMRO, Todor Alexandrov, says: "Who will tell me that I am not a Macedonian will cut off his tongue, and who will tell me that I am not a Bulgarian, I will cut off his head!

            Almost all Macedonian fighters for national liberation clearly and categorically declare their Bulgarian origin!
            During WWI, almost a third of the Bulgarian army consisted of Macedonian Bulgarians. This allows the small population of Bulgaria to mobilize almost 900 thousand. soldier / the highest mobilization coefficient among the belligerent countries /.
            Macedonian political and cultural figures, scientists, educators make up one third of the entire Bulgarian intelligentsia! The Bulgarian ethnic identity among the Macedonian Bulgarians persists until 1945-50, despite all the repressions and terrible assimilation carried out there.
            1. pytar
              pytar 25 December 2020 16: 43
              About how the "Macedonian nation" was created in titular Yugoslavia, I'd better give you links!
              How did western Bulgarians become Macedonians?
              "... with your question you touched upon the most sore spot in the soul of every Bulgarian. Until now, it is a living bleeding wound on the body of Bulgaria, like Kosovo for Serbs and Ukraine for Russians ..."

              Macedonia: Balkan Ukraine
              "... There is a state in the Balkans, the genesis of which is known only to narrow-profile specialists. The Macedonian nation, unlike the Bulgarian, Serbian, Greek and Croatian, was formed relatively recently - in the last half century, and this is the merit of the communist authorities of socialist Yugoslavia, in particular Josip Broz Tito ... "

              Creating the "Macedonian language" the Titovists did not come up with anything more intelligent, but changed several Bulgarian letters to Serbian.
              For example, photos from last year's rallies in Skopje, against the change of the name of the republic in connection with the agreement with Greece. Under each photo I gave a "translation" as it is in Bulgarian.

              "Macedonian language", in essence, is one of the dealect forms of the Bulgarian language, which is spoken by a significant part of Bulgarians in the south-east. Bulgaria. One fact should be noted here - all Slavic languages ​​are synthetic. Alone Bulgarian and "Macedonian" belong to the analytical group of languages. Who does not know the concept of children, let them look on the Internet.

              It is surprising for a Bulgarian when he sees a person frantically repeating that he is not a Bulgarian, in pure Bulgarian! The processes of forming a new Macedonian nation are in many respects similar to those of the Ukrainians. The same myths, the same "antiquity", the same "we are not Russians, we are not Bulgarians."
              Rooting ukrov on the example of Bulgarians from pseudo-Macedonia. UKRAINIAN CRISIS IN THE EYES OF A GREEK
    2. pytar
      pytar 25 December 2020 16: 59
      Until the middle of the eleventh century, the population of Macedonia did not have any ethnically isolated identity.

      Typo, sorry! repeat ... until the middle of the 9th century!
      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 25 December 2020 21: 22
        Peter, thanks for the detailed comments.
        Regards, Vlad!
        1. pytar
          pytar 25 December 2020 22: 27
          In fact, my comments are too long. I would like to note, at least for some topics it is impossible to fit into a couple of words. hi
          1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
            Kote Pan Kokhanka 25 December 2020 22: 59
            Quote: pytar
            In fact, my comments are too long. I would like to note, at least for some topics it is impossible to fit into a couple of words. hi

            No, not long. Sometimes when it boils, you have to speak. You Peter did it, and as a patriot of your Motherland. Some will agree, some will not.
            Others will read your opinion. It's bad that there are no Serbs on the branch. Their point of view would be interesting.
            Peter thanks again, good night!
            Regards, Vlad!
            1. pytar
              pytar 26 December 2020 14: 07
              It's bad that there are no Serbs on the branch. Their point of view would be interesting.

              Well, I definitely know one Serb and a Greek in VO! But among Serbs and Greeks, the perception of Macedonia is fundamentally different! For them, Macedonia, the area of ​​their political interests! Nothing more! Because she was never really theirs! She is a stranger to them, they do not feel her! For Bulgarians, Macedonia is a part of body and soul! It doesn't matter if it is within the borders of Bulgaria or not! This is our Bulgarian spiritual, civilizational space! From the moment of self-awareness of the Bulgarian as such, Macedonia has always been our native land! hi
  • vladcub
    vladcub 25 December 2020 20: 31
    Have a nice evening everyone.
    Valery, something I knew before that: the history of Serbia or Bulgaria, but a lot is new to me.
    Without knowing the history of the Balkans figs that you understand. I am only afraid that professional Balkanists will not understand this tangle of contradictions without half a liter.
    When there were materials about Serbia or Montenegro, I very much regretted that there were no Serbian or Montenegrin comrades among us. It is always interesting to look from the inside
    1. pytar
      pytar 25 December 2020 20: 44
      When there were materials about Serbia or Montenegro, I very much regretted that there were no Serbian or Montenegrin comrades among us.

      Dear Svetoslav, and you ask yourself a question, why are there no Serbs and Montenegrins on such a popular site as VO? Where are the Greeks, where are the Orthodox Romanians? And why are there so many Bulgarians? By the way, we were much more here, but we are often banned when we try to convey to our Russian friends the points of view that differ from those that are replicated by propaganda in today's Russia. "Bulgarians are enemies, they are in NATO, eternal traitors, ungrateful" etc. For some reason, in Russia, someone wants the Russians to perceive one of the people closest to the Russians in this way! With all that, until now Bulgarians in their overwhelming majority have a positive attitude towards Russians and Russia! Think about this ... drinks
      1. vladcub
        vladcub 25 December 2020 21: 11
        Boyan or Putar, I'm sorry, I don't know how to do it right, unfortunately there is a lot of idiocy. In Russia they say: "* uraks do not sow and do not devour, they grow themselves."
        To this I will add: stubborn - trouble, and if such in power, then trouble in the square.
        PS I hope I answered your question?
        1. pytar
          pytar 25 December 2020 22: 24
          Thank you! Got it! hi And we say - the human mind has a border, but the stupidity is endless ... laughing
          1. vladcub
            vladcub 26 December 2020 19: 31
            I heard about endless stupidity
      2. vladcub
        vladcub 25 December 2020 21: 33
        "have a positive attitude towards Russians and Russia" I know about that.
        I know about: "Doctor's Square", about the increased security of "Samarsky Znamya" (you protect it like the apple of your eye. I think you know what this expression means). You revered: "the king of the liberator", Count Ignatiev.
        PS If we cannot influence our supreme idiots, you will understand us (we have "friendship" with the government), let's establish: "people's diplomacy".
        I think ALL ADEQUATS will agree with this
        1. pytar
          pytar 25 December 2020 22: 25
          Yes! Everything is just like that! good And I completely agree with you about people's diplomacy! drinks
  • Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 25 December 2020 21: 39
    All health and positive.
    Great joy: I just went to the site, and here is Valery. I didn't look differently
  • Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 25 December 2020 22: 34
    Colleagues, forgive my little lie: I dropped into the site during the day, but did not have time to look into History. Everything gathered, but the home light distracted
  • faterdom
    faterdom 25 December 2020 23: 49
    Quote: pytar
    With our "Macedonians" one in one!

    In short, these are the Bulgarian Ukrainians who were whispered by adult evil uncles 100 years ago that they were the great-grandchildren of Alexander, and therefore have certain theoretical rights to Greece, Persia, Bactria and Egypt.
    The hypaspists are solid.
  • Narak-zempo
    Narak-zempo 25 December 2020 23: 50

    It's always fun to look at pictures like this.
    How would a lion holding a flag be drawn. But he looks more like a sheep or a poodle. Drawing at the level of a 4-year-old child. But all the pathos vanishes from this.
    1. pytar
      pytar 26 December 2020 15: 32
      It's always fun to look at pictures like this, like a lion holding a flag. But he looks more like a sheep or a poodle. Drawing at the level of a 4-year-old child. But all the pathos vanishes from this.

      Somewhere above, I wrote about the history of this flag and its creators. Yes, truly the images look childish and naive. But under these flags tens of thousands of rebels fought like lions and died! All of them are Bulgarians from Macedonia!
      1. Narak-zempo
        Narak-zempo 26 December 2020 15: 37
        I readily believe that they cut each other for real, with great enthusiasm.
        But how petty it all is, if you look objectively.
        Straight to Lilliputia and Blefuscu from Gulliver's Travels.
        And there was also the word "Balkanization" in the jargon of European politics in the first half of the XNUMXth century. - when they had not yet given independence to all African Bantustans, and it was the Balkan showdown that was for civilized Europeans the personification of savage petty-power ambitions.
  • Sergey Oreshin
    Sergey Oreshin 28 December 2020 10: 21
    Some kind of scanty article: right off the bat about the Turkish conquest, not a word about the pre-Turkish history of Macedonia.
    Well, it is extremely schematic about the stay of Macedonia as part of the Ottoman Empire (and the theme of the cycle is the history of the Balkans in the Ottoman period).
    Honestly, what is the point of writing such "review" articles, in the banal Wikipedia the article "History of Macedonia" will be 2-3 times larger?