Military Review

Disputes over the possibility of equating a certain smoothbore weapon with a rifled one

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Disputes over the possibility of equating a certain smoothbore weapon with a rifled one

Recently, statements have begun to appear from persons who equate themselves with experts regarding the need to reconsider the traditional division of small arms. weapons for smoothbore and rifled. The argument is that manufacturers of modern weapons use special techniques in their production, which in many ways allow one to ask the question of which specific class this weapon belongs to.


For example, an option is voiced so that a weapon with a Lancaster barrel (oval-screw drilling) or "Paradox" is considered as rifled.

An expert from the Kalashnikov concern comments on such proposals:

Allegedly, additional skills are required to wield such a weapon. Let's omit the fact that a weapon that has been in the safe for 5 years does not form skills.

Myths about weapons and misconceptions are considered and refuted in a practical way by a specialist of the said concern.

If we talk about the Lancaster drilling, then it is made in the form of an oval in diameter. Moreover, the oval does not go straight along the entire length of the trunk. It has more, if I may say so, a swirling pitch relative to that in a rifled weapon. The bullet does spin when fired, just like a bullet fired from a rifled weapon. But there are no screw threads in the barrel, so it remains smooth-bore.

Details on the essence of disputes over the possibility of equating a certain smooth-bore weapon with a rifled and other misconceptions in the video by Georgy Gubich:

58 comments
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  1. Avior
    Avior 23 December 2020 08: 49
    +10
    ... But there are no screw grooves in the barrel, so it remains threaded.

    Ochepyatka. Smooth-bore.
    1. neri73-r
      neri73-r 23 December 2020 09: 01
      +3
      Who needs it at all? Manufacturer? No, to the Consumer? No, Licensed, so they don't care. Then what's the talk.
      1. Boris55
        Boris55 23 December 2020 09: 03
        +14
        Quote: neri73-r
        Then what's the talk.

        Make it harder for law-abiding citizens to access weapons.
        1. Profiler
          Profiler 23 December 2020 09: 13
          +3
          Quote: neri73-r
          Who needs it at all?

          Quote: Boris55
          Make it harder for law-abiding citizens to access weapons.


          Forbid and not let go! - one size fits all.
        2. neri73-r
          neri73-r 23 December 2020 09: 25
          +3
          Quote: Boris55
          Quote: neri73-r
          Then what's the talk.

          Make it harder for law-abiding citizens to access weapons.

          What for??? If you deny access, I would understand. But what does this have to do with and how do these concepts of "restrict access" and "specific technical features of barrels" relate? How many are there in relation to other smoothbore on the market? Minor.
          1. paul3390
            paul3390 23 December 2020 09: 37
            +7
            Well, why did they, say, equate melkan with sliced ​​meat and make them wait 5 years? Wildness. There can be only one answer - the main goal of all activities is to screw up people as much as possible .. And so - in all areas ..
            1. Lexus
              Lexus 24 December 2020 04: 36
              +3
              Paul hi ,
              there is only one answer - "small rodents" are afraid for their carcasses.
          2. KCA
            KCA 23 December 2020 09: 44
            +2
            To obtain a license for a rifled weapon, you need to own a smooth-bore weapon for 5 years without remarks, to obtain a smooth-bore, it is enough to take a training course, get a medical certificate, buy and nail a safe and pay a state fee, so that there are fewer questions, you can get a hunting ticket, for which it is enough to say "I want to be a hunter "and that's it
            1. neri73-r
              neri73-r 23 December 2020 09: 56
              0
              Quote: KCA
              To obtain a license for a rifled weapon, you need to own a smooth-bore weapon for 5 years without remarks, to obtain a smooth-bore, it is enough to take a training course, get a medical certificate, buy and nail a safe and pay a state fee, so that there are fewer questions, you can get a hunting ticket, for which it is enough to say "I want to be a hunter "and that's it

              This is all clear. Explain to me what share of the smooth-bore arms market have
              Quote: KCA
              Lancaster (oval screw) or "Paradox"
              and how will their conversion to the rifle category affect citizens' access to weapons? If their share is 50% or more, then yes, but this is all blah, blah, blah.
            2. impostor
              impostor 23 December 2020 10: 34
              +1
              and nail the safe

              If the WG permitter requires you to nail the safe, it exceeds, or does not know, its new regulation or 814 resolution. Then shame on the ignorant, what else to say.
            3. paul3390
              paul3390 23 December 2020 12: 42
              +1
              You don't need to nail the safe .. wink
            4. Alexfly
              Alexfly 23 December 2020 12: 50
              +2
              This is the problem, training is superficial. In some countries, for example in Germany, to become a hunter, theoretical training is conducted for a period of six months, exams, theoretical, practical, to pass you need to gain more than 75%, in short, the most persistent or a third of the beginners remain at the exit ... will not give a ride, an acquaintance told ... This whole paradox, Lancaster is from the evil one .... The state does not want to allow the population to have weapons ..... You never know ... a fairing on the ass, so to speak .. a gun, and idiots screaming and inciting at the corners ...
              1. KCA
                KCA 23 December 2020 14: 23
                0
                I probably told a lie about the hunting ticket, it was I who changed the old ticket for a new one, therefore it is simple and without question, most likely to get it from scratch, after all, training is required
                1. Dark merlin
                  Dark merlin 4 February 2021 21: 37
                  0
                  Received yesterday "from scratch" ... Required: application for public services, 2 photos 3x4 and the answer "yes" to the question "Are you familiar with the hunting minimum?" The very knowledge of even the hunting minimum is not required.
        3. NDR-791
          NDR-791 23 December 2020 09: 25
          +7
          Make it harder for law-abiding citizens to access weapons.
          In the same opera, a certificate from his wife. wassat They are trying to get in too. And mind you - the same people who wept about the hard fate of women and juvenile justice. That week on the occasion I got into a conversation with our district police officer. I ask: why don’t you check the trunks, like they should once a year, or what has changed? It turns out that there are just so many unwritten responsibilities that they simply have no time to do this. And they check only on the recommendation of the National Guard. And about Lancaster ... This is nonsense in rifled translation. First of all, how many will have to be seized - in more than five years there are so many of them on hand that do not grieve. Secondly, his accuracy beyond 100 meters honestly leaves much to be desired. Third, there are no live cartridges for this weapon. If, in theory, you can shoot from a rifled Saiga with combat (with a steel core) if you can get them where (the criminal is provided if such a bullet is taken out of the carcass), then for Lancaster and the paradox of live ammunition was not even designed. That's the whole conversation. And the "cry of Yaroslavna" from our legislators from stupid non-knowledge and from the fear for themselves, reinforced by this non-knowledge, for some of them burns out a nth place am
          1. Jünger
            Jünger 23 December 2020 09: 52
            +2
            Quote: NDR-791
            That week on the occasion I got into a conversation with our district police officer.

            He didn't even come to check my safe. They came, he says, a photo of the safe) And I never heard of checks once a year.
            1. NDR-791
              NDR-791 23 December 2020 09: 59
              0
              They did not check me either, only asked for a certificate for the safe, but he never came laughing
              1. paul3390
                paul3390 23 December 2020 12: 44
                +2
                This is bullshit, my district policeman told my friend that the safe was not good, because he had no ears to hang the barn lock! wassat
                1. NDR-791
                  NDR-791 23 December 2020 12: 47
                  0
                  How much the barn lock costs, so much to the district's paw. Cheaper now ... it cost me a box of paper and a pack of pens wassat
            2. raw174
              raw174 23 December 2020 18: 47
              +1
              Quote: Junger
              He didn't even come to check my safe.

              Now control over the circulation of weapons is carried out by the National Guard. The police, at the written request of the destroyer, within the framework of interaction, participate in this control. But on his own initiative, the district police officer has the right to check the weapons and ammunition kept by citizens, even daily. In fact, today, with the current incompleteness and bureaucratic workload of district police officers, this initiative is of no use to anyone ...
              1. Jünger
                Jünger 23 December 2020 19: 33
                0
                I was in the National Guard and they told me to contact the district police officer to check the safe. And if before that everything went clearly and without hesitation, then I had a great run after this citizen.
                I thought about writing a complaint about him in public services, but it seems that they decided everything in time and did not.
                1. raw174
                  raw174 23 December 2020 22: 08
                  +2
                  Quote: Junger
                  I was in the National Guard and told to contact the district police officer to check the safe

                  They just don't want to study themselves, they use an interdepartmental agreement and, as they say, from old memory. In the order of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, on the work of the precinct, it is written that they are involved in the control of weapons, together with VNG. And it’s not easy to find a precinct officer, for such purposes, even in the village, they have 8 meetings a week and other bureaucratic lobsters ... My safe was checked by the VNG authorization.
          2. aleksejkabanets
            aleksejkabanets 23 December 2020 10: 06
            -1
            Quote: NDR-791
            for some burns out the nth place

            And it does not burn in vain. The cat knows whose meat it has eaten. This is the main reason for such "initiatives".
      2. YOUR
        YOUR 23 December 2020 11: 04
        +2
        Just licensed, more precisely permissive not according to FIG.
        I remember how I went to get a permit for an injury. So many questions were asked and everyone was spinning around are you ready to shoot a man ?????????????????
        I say this was taught to me by the state. Another one was drawn and again in a circle. I say you have a PM hanging on your belt, for what? are you ready to kill.?
        In general, an unpleasant conversation came out, but permission was given
        1. Intruder
          Intruder 24 December 2020 14: 30
          +1
          In September of this year, I went to the licensing permit, called "for advice" with one specific question, about the transportation of a number of "products" of domestic production within the territory of the Russian Federation and outside, on an airplane, of course, we strained for a week with a "tricky topic", but the necessary information still got it in full, and well "no stupid" questions about "are you ready to shoot a man ..." :)
          1. YOUR
            YOUR 24 December 2020 14: 48
            +1
            A trucker I know bought a barrel for self-defense after a series of assaults on killing cars. No problems, but the question was asked - are you ready to shoot a person? Answered if my life is in danger I will shoot. Apparently the question was asked according to some kind of manual, a questionnaire, on duty. Because there were no further questions.
            There were several cases with the loss of both cars and drivers, and always in the area of ​​one city of Aldan. The guy was already going to rest, parking for distant cars, in the mirror he saw that several people were sneaking up to the car. He took the gun, loaded it, and when the door was pulled open, he fired without aiming. One fell, the rest fled. I called the cops. In principle, there are a lot of violations on the application, but as it turned out it was a gang and the cops were herding for a long time but could not prove anything. And here is such a gift. Wounded during an attempted robbery, accomplices threw the trunk and he had a knife. Says investigators tortured forcing to rewrite the statement. so it was not his fault, but only fired after the necessary actions. And after a couple of times I had to go to investigative experiments and to the court. It cost him more and received gratitude. And everyone pretended that the application was in accordance with the Law on Weapons and the Criminal Code.
            So not everything is so bad.
            Although there are other examples, sad ones.
            1. Intruder
              Intruder 24 December 2020 15: 32
              0
              Says investigators tortured forcing to rewrite the statement. so it was not his fault, but only fired after the necessary actions. And after a couple of times I had to go to investigative experiments and to the court. It also cost him and received gratitude
              when it is necessary for statistics in the relevant structures, then you are lucky and the application can be rewritten by a "smart and kind tracker", this is an exception to the rule, most likely, and not a regularity in the reality of our life and with the necessary defense! For three years, in situations of defense with a civilian barrel, I had a refusal twice, I say "alternatively gifted", well, there are only "wet pants" for the attacker and one more "light" soft tissue with fragments ... I might not have ended very well, such is the personal stat for three years ...
            2. Whiteidol
              Whiteidol 8 January 2021 16: 36
              +1
              When using a firearm to kill, you need to know what to say, and then write in the explanation. If you don't know what to say, you can start by taking 51 st. Of the Constitution and give an explanation after consulting a lawyer. Nakraynyak to refer to a psychological disorder in view of an extreme situation, and then give evidence.
  2. impostor
    impostor 23 December 2020 09: 30
    +3
    As soon as the .308 Win (7,62x51) is taught to shoot with a shot or buckshot - yes, yes, Lancaster and so on from 32 to 12 can be accepted into the ranks of rifling!
  3. Vladimir_2U
    Vladimir_2U 23 December 2020 09: 32
    +2
    What a profanity!
    The purity of the experiment is not to hell: on the accuracy of the norms. battle at 100 m. and shot a frame at 500, despite the fact that the bullet for Lancaster was 9 mm, and under the rifling. 7,62. those. with the same charge at L. and the speed is lower and decelerates faster; when tested for penetration bullet: L. poliobol. and 7,62 didn't show a bullet, isn't it CMO?

    I am not defending Lancaster, I think from my sofa that with such drilling, the accuracy and accuracy, all other things being equal, will be lower than that of a conventional rifled one, due to the greater precession of the bullet.
    1. NDR-791
      NDR-791 23 December 2020 10: 03
      +7
      with such drilling, the accuracy and accuracy, other things being equal, will be lower than that of a conventional rifled,
      Certainly so, that's why I say that the translation of THIS ... into the category of rifled sheer obscurantism. Shot from KO-44 lankaster. At 500 meters from the knee, out of 5 cartridges, one !!! getting into the box from the computer system unit. And this is 60 * 60cm. And it’s not me that scythe, everyone was not better. bully
      1. impostor
        impostor 23 December 2020 11: 24
        +1
        Hmmm ... he rejected the Lancaster in favor of 12 Hryun, although as a BA in a hunting asset he wooed a Lancaster and convinced that at 100 m heap was all in a soldier's headdress. Oh, there it is. Although, if you need a minute barrel, you still need to look at expensive rifling.
        1. NDR-791
          NDR-791 23 December 2020 11: 31
          +2
          Although, if you need a minute barrel, you still need to look at expensive rifling.
          We have SCSs in use. Kalashoids are heavy, Orsis is not for our money, I am not talking about imports.
          1. impostor
            impostor 23 December 2020 11: 52
            +2
            Fiercely plus, really hard devil. I'm used to it, however, I don't even notice. I'm thinking about a can from Point 76, but this is even more than a pound, however, to write - it's worth it
            1. NDR-791
              NDR-791 23 December 2020 12: 36
              -1
              For that kind of money, I'll make five of them myself. tongue What is from the Point, what is from Matilda. It's still loud, but not like a whip. Comparable to 12k
          2. Alexfly
            Alexfly 23 December 2020 15: 11
            0
            That would be worthy of all sorts of SKS Hammers under a more powerful cartridge to do? In the same 7,62, but more powerful for hunting, so that at the exit it was under 2600 J. ... but they would be carried on their hands ... And so good still rifles under Lancaster do not dare to say something with creativity. ... PESTS!
        2. paul3390
          paul3390 23 December 2020 12: 47
          +1
          Although, if you need a minute barrel, you still need to look at expensive rifling.

          Why pay for a barrel that shoots better than its owner? wink I assess my skills sensibly, therefore - I have never chased like a minute barrel .. laughing
  4. Dimide
    Dimide 23 December 2020 11: 52
    0
    Today at Vzglyad: - a bill was introduced to the State Duma ... to prohibit the issuance of licenses to persons with 2-3 convictions, as well as to persons who were
    admin.responsibility for drunk driving and for refusal to undergo certification "
    I agree with the first, but for an admin offense it is somehow not that
    1. neri73-r
      neri73-r 23 December 2020 12: 01
      +1
      Quote: Dimid
      I agree with the first, but for an admin offense it is somehow not that

      I agree that the second question is difficult. As if he sat down behind the wheel drunk, he will take a weapon drunk. But not everything is so simple in our country, but with our traditions and way of behavior.
      1. Dimide
        Dimide 23 December 2020 12: 10
        -1
        Well, there are different situations and not always the "sober driver" service is available. wassat
        And for refusing to be examined, this is my constitutional right.
        1. Undecim
          Undecim 23 December 2020 14: 16
          +6
          Well, there are different situations
          Such fans of "different situations" should be deprived of the right for life not only to drive a car, but to have it, in principle, like a weapon, moreover, for three generations.
          1. Dimide
            Dimide 23 December 2020 17: 55
            0
            Uv, Undecim, I meant "emergency situations", such as a hunting accident and the victim must be urgently taken to the honey. institution.
            It is necessary to understand in each specific case, and not to moralize.
            1. Undecim
              Undecim 23 December 2020 18: 43
              +5
              Hunting and drinking are incompatible.
    2. Alexfly
      Alexfly 23 December 2020 13: 24
      0
      Dear, what do you think, if you have enough intelligence, after having drunk a bottle, he sits behind the wheel, then most likely you will put a rifle in the car, in the equipped state after two bottles of beer ... Sorry, of course, for the example. Any record of offenses issued by the court should affect your rights to own, acquire weapons and ammunition ... Think about what you are going to do. And about the criminal record I agree 100%, NO WAY !!
      1. Dimide
        Dimide 23 December 2020 18: 03
        0
        Dear AlexFly, from your point of view, for example, participation in protest actions is also an obstacle in obtaining a license?
        Also an offense record
        1. Alexfly
          Alexfly 23 December 2020 19: 01
          0
          Only a court decision
        2. Whiteidol
          Whiteidol 8 January 2021 16: 41
          0
          It all depends on the purpose of your participation. It's one thing to scream and hold a rally, and another thing to run the police with a cocktail or a stone.
    3. Intruder
      Intruder 24 December 2020 14: 24
      +1
      I agree with the first, but for an admin offense it is somehow not that
      dashing trouble started .., and then for an unpaid communal apartment with a monthly delay, they will begin to take ownership of the vehicle, just give me the opportunity, they will impose restrictions on the most I can’t :)
  5. Bartholomew
    Bartholomew 23 December 2020 11: 53
    +1
    Well, it seems like everything is going towards the ban of Lancaster. Maybe in some specific calibers (9.6), but the ban is on the way.
    1. impostor
      impostor 23 December 2020 11: 59
      +1
      In general, the idea of ​​putting Lancaster in red has been discussed for probably three years, but it's still there, it's not always common sense drowning in the lobby of manure
  6. Alexfly
    Alexfly 23 December 2020 13: 18
    +1
    A comparison was made incorrectly, Lancaster's bullets are semi-jacketed, Tiger FMJ, their energy when passing an obstacle is different, so-so comparison, about a scientific and educational program ...
  7. huntsman650
    huntsman650 23 December 2020 22: 12
    0
    For the "black" smooth barrel canceled criminal liability (for storage). Fine!!!
  8. Cottodraton
    Cottodraton 24 December 2020 05: 01
    -1
    How many stories have I heard about "law-abiding" citizens who pulled vodka and grabbed their guns ... Probably, when there are a lot of such cases, then they begin to introduce bans ... Until the 70s, it turns out that the smooth barrel was sold without a license ...
    The same is with potassium permanganate - because of the crazy rabble who does not know what to do and from idleness inventing a way to get paid or how to get rich on this, invents all sorts of rubbish ...
    Here it is not "fatty carcasses that protect" and do not "complicate the life of honest owners" ... but save them from their own stupidity, laziness and stupidity.
    Our society, by 70 percent, stopped forever in development at the level of 14 years ... It seems like adults, but how to "graduate". It's already scary.
    I even see it at work ...
    1. Intruder
      Intruder 24 December 2020 14: 19
      0
      How many stories have I heard about "law-abiding" citizens who pulled vodka and grabbed their guns ...
      Duc, on the face of a low weapons culture, and here only bans and restrictions on ownership, the nature of potential owners cannot be corrected, somehow from childhood it is necessary to do all this, in the areas: shooting clubs with state support and school shooting galleries to create, optional courses in the area "old and good OBZH" ..., as I recall the last classes back in the 90s, we went and shot in the high school in the shooting range and normally, and then went out into nature with "high-speed" orientation on the terrain and assembly and disassembly of gas-operated automation right there in the clearing .., grace :)
      1. Whiteidol
        Whiteidol 8 January 2021 16: 44
        0
        There was such a thing. CWP was called. In addition to the combatant, the old AK 74 was dismantled. Further, shooting from a small car in a shooting range. Before that, from the brass.
        1. Intruder
          Intruder 8 January 2021 20: 31
          0
          The NVP was called - for sure ... :), now only the Yuarmeians are engaged in the "initialization", but even then, everything is somehow blurred and optimized into the board :)
  9. Intruder
    Intruder 24 December 2020 14: 12
    0
    traditional division of small arms into smooth-bore and rifled
    maybe constructional, though !?
    Moreover, the oval does not go straight along the entire length of the trunk.
    and can the barrel bore is better to use rather than
    in the form of an oval in diameter.
    :)
    The bullet does spin when fired, just like a bullet fired from a rifled weapon.
    and close the parameters of the bullet do not match, in comparison with the rifled barrel ...
  10. Zakonnik
    Zakonnik 24 December 2020 21: 13
    0
    The authors of this initiative are also pests. As the owner of Lancaster I speak.