Disputes over the possibility of equating a certain smoothbore weapon with a rifled one

Recently, statements have begun to appear from persons who equate themselves with experts regarding the need to reconsider the traditional division of small arms. weapons for smoothbore and rifled. The argument is that manufacturers of modern weapons use special techniques in their production, which in many ways allow one to ask the question of which specific class this weapon belongs to.

For example, an option is voiced so that a weapon with a Lancaster barrel (oval-screw drilling) or "Paradox" is considered as rifled.

An expert from the Kalashnikov concern comments on such proposals:

Allegedly, additional skills are required to wield such a weapon. Let's omit the fact that a weapon that has been in the safe for 5 years does not form skills.

Myths about weapons and misconceptions are considered and refuted in a practical way by a specialist of the said concern.

If we talk about the Lancaster drilling, then it is made in the form of an oval in diameter. Moreover, the oval does not go straight along the entire length of the trunk. It has more, if I may say so, a swirling pitch relative to that in a rifled weapon. The bullet does spin when fired, just like a bullet fired from a rifled weapon. But there are no screw threads in the barrel, so it remains smooth-bore.

Details on the essence of disputes over the possibility of equating a certain smooth-bore weapon with a rifled and other misconceptions in the video by Georgy Gubich:

Comments

[Avior]

... But there are no screw grooves in the barrel, so it remains threaded.

Ochepyatka. Smooth-bore.

[neri73-r]

Who needs it at all? Manufacturer? No, to the Consumer? No, Licensed, so they don't care. Then what's the talk.

[Boris55]

Quote: neri73-r

Then what's the talk.

Make it harder for law-abiding citizens to access weapons.

[Profiler]

Quote: neri73-r

Who needs it at all?

Quote: Boris55

Make it harder for law-abiding citizens to access weapons.

Forbid and not let go! - one size fits all.

[neri73-r]

Quote: Boris55

Quote: neri73-r

Then what's the talk.

Make it harder for law-abiding citizens to access weapons.

What for??? If you deny access, I would understand. But what does this have to do with and how do these concepts of "restrict access" and "specific technical features of barrels" relate? How many are there in relation to other smoothbore on the market? Minor.

[paul3390]

Well, why did they, say, equate melkan with sliced ​​meat and make them wait 5 years? Wildness. There can be only one answer - the main goal of all activities is to screw up people as much as possible .. And so - in all areas ..

[Lexus]

Paul ,
there is only one answer - "small rodents" are afraid for their carcasses.

[KCA]

To obtain a license for a rifled weapon, you need to own a smooth-bore weapon for 5 years without remarks, to obtain a smooth-bore, it is enough to take a training course, get a medical certificate, buy and nail a safe and pay a state fee, so that there are fewer questions, you can get a hunting ticket, for which it is enough to say "I want to be a hunter "and that's it

[neri73-r]

Quote: KCA

To obtain a license for a rifled weapon, you need to own a smooth-bore weapon for 5 years without remarks, to obtain a smooth-bore, it is enough to take a training course, get a medical certificate, buy and nail a safe and pay a state fee, so that there are fewer questions, you can get a hunting ticket, for which it is enough to say "I want to be a hunter "and that's it

This is all clear. Explain to me what share of the smooth-bore arms market have

Quote: KCA

Lancaster (oval screw) or "Paradox"

and how will their conversion to the rifle category affect citizens' access to weapons? If their share is 50% or more, then yes, but this is all blah, blah, blah.

[impostor]

and nail the safe

If the WG permitter requires you to nail the safe, it exceeds, or does not know, its new regulation or 814 resolution. Then shame on the ignorant, what else to say.

[paul3390]

You don't need to nail the safe ..

[Alexfly]

This is the problem, training is superficial. In some countries, for example in Germany, to become a hunter, theoretical training is conducted for a period of six months, exams, theoretical, practical, to pass you need to gain more than 75%, in short, the most persistent or a third of the beginners remain at the exit ... will not give a ride, an acquaintance told ... This whole paradox, Lancaster is from the evil one .... The state does not want to allow the population to have weapons ..... You never know ... a fairing on the ass, so to speak .. a gun, and idiots screaming and inciting at the corners ...

[KCA]

I probably told a lie about the hunting ticket, it was I who changed the old ticket for a new one, therefore it is simple and without question, most likely to get it from scratch, after all, training is required

[Dark merlin]

Received yesterday "from scratch" ... Required: application for public services, 2 photos 3x4 and the answer "yes" to the question "Are you familiar with the hunting minimum?" The very knowledge of even the hunting minimum is not required.

[NDR-791]

Make it harder for law-abiding citizens to access weapons.
In the same opera, a certificate from his wife. They are trying to get in too. And mind you - the same people who wept about the hard fate of women and juvenile justice. That week on the occasion I got into a conversation with our district police officer. I ask: why don’t you check the trunks, like they should once a year, or what has changed? It turns out that there are just so many unwritten responsibilities that they simply have no time to do this. And they check only on the recommendation of the National Guard. And about Lancaster ... This is nonsense in rifled translation. First of all, how many will have to be seized - in more than five years there are so many of them on hand that do not grieve. Secondly, his accuracy beyond 100 meters honestly leaves much to be desired. Third, there are no live cartridges for this weapon. If, in theory, you can shoot from a rifled Saiga with combat (with a steel core) if you can get them where (the criminal is provided if such a bullet is taken out of the carcass), then for Lancaster and the paradox of live ammunition was not even designed. That's the whole conversation. And the "cry of Yaroslavna" from our legislators from stupid non-knowledge and from the fear for themselves, reinforced by this non-knowledge, for some of them burns out a nth place

[Jünger]

Quote: NDR-791

That week on the occasion I got into a conversation with our district police officer.

He didn't even come to check my safe. They came, he says, a photo of the safe) And I never heard of checks once a year.

[NDR-791]

They did not check me either, only asked for a certificate for the safe, but he never came

[paul3390]

This is bullshit, my district policeman told my friend that the safe was not good, because he had no ears to hang the barn lock!

[NDR-791]

How much the barn lock costs, so much to the district's paw. Cheaper now ... it cost me a box of paper and a pack of pens

[raw174]

Quote: Junger

He didn't even come to check my safe.

Now control over the circulation of weapons is carried out by the National Guard. The police, at the written request of the destroyer, within the framework of interaction, participate in this control. But on his own initiative, the district police officer has the right to check the weapons and ammunition kept by citizens, even daily. In fact, today, with the current incompleteness and bureaucratic workload of district police officers, this initiative is of no use to anyone ...

[Jünger]

I was in the National Guard and they told me to contact the district police officer to check the safe. And if before that everything went clearly and without hesitation, then I had a great run after this citizen.
I thought about writing a complaint about him in public services, but it seems that they decided everything in time and did not.

[raw174]

Quote: Junger

I was in the National Guard and told to contact the district police officer to check the safe

They just don't want to study themselves, they use an interdepartmental agreement and, as they say, from old memory. In the order of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, on the work of the precinct, it is written that they are involved in the control of weapons, together with VNG. And it’s not easy to find a precinct officer, for such purposes, even in the village, they have 8 meetings a week and other bureaucratic lobsters ... My safe was checked by the VNG authorization.

[alekseykabanets]

Quote: NDR-791

for some burns out the nth place

And it does not burn in vain. The cat knows whose meat it has eaten. This is the main reason for such "initiatives".

[YOUR]

Just licensed, more precisely permissive not according to FIG.
I remember how I went to get a permit for an injury. So many questions were asked and everyone was spinning around are you ready to shoot a man ?????????????????
I say this was taught to me by the state. Another one was drawn and again in a circle. I say you have a PM hanging on your belt, for what? are you ready to kill.?
In general, an unpleasant conversation came out, but permission was given

[impostor]

As soon as the .308 Win (7,62x51) is taught to shoot with a shot or buckshot - yes, yes, Lancaster and so on from 32 to 12 can be accepted into the ranks of rifling!

[Vladimir_2U]

What a profanity!
The purity of the experiment is not to hell: on the accuracy of the norms. battle at 100 m. and shot a frame at 500, despite the fact that the bullet for Lancaster was 9 mm, and under the rifling. 7,62. those. with the same charge at L. and the speed is lower and decelerates faster; when tested for penetration bullet: L. poliobol. and 7,62 didn't show a bullet, isn't it CMO?

I am not defending Lancaster, I think from my sofa that with such drilling, the accuracy and accuracy, all other things being equal, will be lower than that of a conventional rifled one, due to the greater precession of the bullet.

[NDR-791]

with such drilling, the accuracy and accuracy, other things being equal, will be lower than that of a conventional rifled,
Certainly so, that's why I say that the translation of THIS ... into the category of rifled sheer obscurantism. Shot from KO-44 lankaster. At 500 meters from the knee, out of 5 cartridges, one !!! getting into the box from the computer system unit. And this is 60 * 60cm. And it’s not me that scythe, everyone was not better.

[impostor]

Hmmm ... he rejected the Lancaster in favor of 12 Hryun, although as a BA in a hunting asset he wooed a Lancaster and convinced that at 100 m heap was all in a soldier's headdress. Oh, there it is. Although, if you need a minute barrel, you still need to look at expensive rifling.

[NDR-791]

Although, if you need a minute barrel, you still need to look at expensive rifling.
We have SCSs in use. Kalashoids are heavy, Orsis is not for our money, I am not talking about imports.

[impostor]

Fiercely plus, really hard devil. I'm used to it, however, I don't even notice. I'm thinking about a can from Point 76, but this is even more than a pound, however, to write - it's worth it

[NDR-791]

For that kind of money, I'll make five of them myself. What is from the Point, what is from Matilda. It's still loud, but not like a whip. Comparable to 12k

[Alexfly]

That would be worthy of all sorts of SKS Hammers under a more powerful cartridge to do? In the same 7,62, but more powerful for hunting, so that at the exit it was under 2600 J. ... but they would be carried on their hands ... And so good still rifles under Lancaster do not dare to say something with creativity. ... PESTS!

[paul3390]

Although, if you need a minute barrel, you still need to look at expensive rifling.

Why pay for a barrel that shoots better than its owner? I assess my skills sensibly, therefore - I have never chased like a minute barrel ..

[Dimide]

Today at Vzglyad: - a bill was introduced to the State Duma ... to prohibit the issuance of licenses to persons with 2-3 convictions, as well as to persons who were
admin.responsibility for drunk driving and for refusal to undergo certification "
I agree with the first, but for an admin offense it is somehow not that

[neri73-r]

Quote: Dimid

I agree with the first, but for an admin offense it is somehow not that

I agree that the second question is difficult. As if he sat down behind the wheel drunk, he will take a weapon drunk. But not everything is so simple in our country, but with our traditions and way of behavior.

[Dimide]

Well, there are different situations and not always the "sober driver" service is available.
And for refusing to be examined, this is my constitutional right.

[Undecim]

Well, there are different situations
Such fans of "different situations" should be deprived of the right for life not only to drive a car, but to have it, in principle, like a weapon, moreover, for three generations.

[Dimide]

Uv, Undecim, I meant "emergency situations", such as a hunting accident and the victim must be urgently taken to the honey. institution.
It is necessary to understand in each specific case, and not to moralize.

[Undecim]

Hunting and drinking are incompatible.

[Alexfly]

Dear, what do you think, if you have enough intelligence, after having drunk a bottle, he sits behind the wheel, then most likely you will put a rifle in the car, in the equipped state after two bottles of beer ... Sorry, of course, for the example. Any record of offenses issued by the court should affect your rights to own, acquire weapons and ammunition ... Think about what you are going to do. And about the criminal record I agree 100%, NO WAY !!

[Dimide]

Dear AlexFly, from your point of view, for example, participation in protest actions is also an obstacle in obtaining a license?
Also an offense record

[Alexfly]

Only a court decision

[whiteidol]

It all depends on the purpose of your participation. It's one thing to scream and hold a rally, and another thing to run the police with a cocktail or a stone.

[Bartholomew]

Well, it seems like everything is going towards the ban of Lancaster. Maybe in some specific calibers (9.6), but the ban is on the way.

[impostor]

In general, the idea of ​​putting Lancaster in red has been discussed for probably three years, but it's still there, it's not always common sense drowning in the lobby of manure

[Alexfly]

A comparison was made incorrectly, Lancaster's bullets are semi-jacketed, Tiger FMJ, their energy when passing an obstacle is different, so-so comparison, about a scientific and educational program ...

[huntsman650]

For the "black" smooth barrel canceled criminal liability (for storage). Fine!!!

[Cottodraton]

How many stories have I heard about "law-abiding" citizens who pulled vodka and grabbed their guns ... Probably, when there are a lot of such cases, then they begin to introduce bans ... Until the 70s, it turns out that the smooth barrel was sold without a license ...
The same is with potassium permanganate - because of the crazy rabble who does not know what to do and from idleness inventing a way to get paid or how to get rich on this, invents all sorts of rubbish ...
Here it is not "fatty carcasses that protect" and do not "complicate the life of honest owners" ... but save them from their own stupidity, laziness and stupidity.
Our society, by 70 percent, stopped forever in development at the level of 14 years ... It seems like adults, but how to "graduate". It's already scary.
I even see it at work ...

[Zakonnik]

The authors of this initiative are also pests. As the owner of Lancaster I speak.