Military Review

Our "Pentagon Wars" -2. R&D chaos

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Facial expression S.K. Shoigu when he pronounces the letters "OCD".


Finding out what what is accompanied by work on the creation of a scientific and technical groundwork in the defense industry of our country, we continue to research this organizational jungle.

This time - in terms of experimental design work (ROC). Our "Pentagon Wars" give odds to the American, and a very large one. Let's take a closer look at this.

And don't even dream, there won't be any OCD


"And don't even dream, there won't be any OCDs!"

This phrase was said in a harsh and emotional form by the Minister of Defense of the Russian Federation S.G. Shoigu while visiting the Amur shipyard in a conversation with the President of the USC on the order of new corvettes for the Pacific fleet.


The minister is understandable. The breakdowns of the ROC in the Ministry of Defense took on an avalanche-like character. Only the reason for this is not so much in the R&D (development work) themselves as the stage of creating weapons and military equipment (AME), but in the insanity of the existing R&D system (which was partially discussed in the last article).

It should be noted that we have successful R&D projects completed within the specified funding timeframes and successfully passed tests. Moreover, it was not always "something simple".

For example, when, in the course of one of such successful R&D projects (Mayevka), the developers received a “knockdown” from the fact that the coaxial cable (originally specified in the project) does not provide the transmission of the entire volume of information over the required distance, in the shortest possible time (and for the first time in the country ) a special marine fiber optic power cable was developed with the required characteristics.

This means OCD can be done on time and successfully.

However, such examples are extremely rare and, in fact, are such a striking "exception" that they sometimes tried to destroy (specifically, for example, "Mayevka"). Precisely because of their success. Too much they "pricked the eyes" of those who are used to working not for the result, but for the "process" (covering it up with "a thousand reasons").

Essentially, OCD is

"Transfer of scientific and technical groundwork into effective production models of weapons and military equipment."

Or one more unofficial, but in its own way wise, "definition" from an old experienced military representative:

"ROC is a check of RKD (working design documentation) during testing."

In other words, the purpose and meaning of the RCD is the development of a sample (product, complex) for its serial production (which is impossible without a high-quality RCD).

What does it take to "correct" and successful OCD?

First. Necessary scientific and technical groundwork.

Second. Adequate and doable TTZ (tactical and technical assignment) and the specified timing of OCD.

The third. Adequate funding. And the main thing in it is not so much the size as the organization of the proper financing of the stages. (Anti-example. For many of our OCDs in the 2000s, most of the funding was shifted to the last stages (the first of them were performed simply in "poverty"). And then they "suddenly wondered" why these OCDs "all together", "together" went into disruptions and huge cost overruns).

Fourth. On the part of the developer - a strong and capable team. Chief designer (a strong team and organization are sometimes able to "pull" a topic even with a "weak" GC (one of these examples, from the literal assessment of specialists:

"The torpedo is afraid of water", because "water (ie tests) is afraid of its main battery."

The fifth. A very important factor is a capable military acceptance, because a lot depends on its effective work today (and the worst option for a "factory" when

"The voyepred signs everything").

The sixth. Effective testing system. And the due attitude of the Ministry of Defense organizations to them.

Seventh. Opportunities of the industry (and "other organizations") for serial production and supply of components.

The NTZ said in the last article... Therefore, let's move on to the TTZ issue.

About tactical and technical tasks


Our "Pentagon Wars" -2. R&D chaos

A very relevant picture, including for the military ROC.

Good and relevant memories and reflections on this (as it was during the Soviet era) were written by the former head of the torpedo operation department of the Research Institute weapons Navy L.B. Bozin:

Among the duties of the Institute's torpedo control were:

- Preparation and coordination with the performers of the technical specifications for the development of torpedoes and torpedo-missile armament of ships.

- Monitoring the progress of development, participation in various, including state, tests, samples of weapons and weapons of ships.

- Monitoring the exploitation of weapons and weapons in the fleet.

- Scientific work.

Monitoring the development progress consists in actively participating in tests, assessing their results, preparing conclusions on them for making management decisions.

The first - the most important - stage: development and coordination with the contractor of the "Terms of Reference" (TTZ). These are not a few lines like "make it good." This is a detailed document on what requirements a complex of weapons, a warhead of a complex - a torpedo, a rocket or a separate component of a torpedo, a missile must meet. For each line of this document there is not just a dispute, but a fight with representatives of the performer of the work, for every figure, for every word, because every word in the TK has legal force. Disputes often take this form:

- We want, that…

- Wanting is not harmful, but where has it been proven that this is possible in practice, and not in theory?

The working document before printing is completely different from the original, called "fish". It all consists of corrections, insertions, deletions not only of individual words, but also entire sentences and even entire paragraphs.

Sometimes the head contractor issues a private technical assignment for any component part to third-party organizations. In this case, the Institute will agree on this particular TOR. The signature on such a document is also expensive. The slightest inaccuracy or omission in the assignment of any detail at the end of the work is expensive or, as they say, "goes sideways" ...

During the development of the SET-72 torpedo "Gidropribor" issued a private technical specification to the Petrovsky plant for the development of the UBPU (unified control unit): something like an autopilot. It was agreed by the Institute. And a tiny detail was missed: there was no requirement for the center of mass of the UBPU relative to the torpedo axis. These are millimeters!

The people of Kiev placed the heaviest units as it was convenient for them to mount them on the frame: at the top of the block. As a result:

- the center of mass of the torpedo crept up.
- the metacentric height was found to be insufficient.
- the torpedo began to roll poorly.

Appeal to the developers of the UPSU:

- Arrange so that ...

- Where have you been before? The work was done in accordance with the TOR. The train left. And if you really want to, open a new topic, a new contract, new deadlines, new funding. Good luck, we strongly wish you success.

And the chief designer of the torpedo, Ibragim Effendiyev, had to place a signage in the torpedo in order to lower the center of mass: a blank weighing more than 20 kg, instead of using the weight and volume of the cargo for something more useful ...
This is what forgotten millimeters sometimes cost.

Especially worth noting:

Those industrialists are still bison, and more than once put the military - and even big bosses and admirals - delicately, let's say, in a disastrous position. Experience is gained through long and responsible work with industry. Officers from the navy, especially admirals, who have learned in practice all kinds of shortcomings in torpedoes, often come to the institute or to the department with an ardent desire to "restore order." Having received a couple of slaps from the industry, they temper the ardor ...

It was. It is possible to describe "how it became" in a nutshell by saying that

Today TTZ are sometimes written "over the weekend", and this is also "a failure of the deadlines set by the management," because it was "three whole days - evening, night and morning."

You can clearly show the "quality" (in quotation marks) of today's TTZ using the example of the ROC ANPA-PA, which the Ministry of Industry and Trade (or rather one organization from the square) "dreams of bestowing" on the Ministry of Defense:

Tactical and technical requirements for the product. Appointment requirements. The following technical characteristics must be provided for the intended purpose:
autonomy of work of ANPA-PA for at least 24 hours at an economical speed.

So what is the "economic speed"? For this directly affects the appearance (including the requirements for search and communication means) and the cost of the AUV?

Monitoring of the mission and the state of the AUV-PA, as well as the transmission of telecontrol commands to the AUV-PA in the submerged position via the hydroacoustic communication channel and in the surface position via the radio communication channel.

The word "mission" here just hurts the eye. The senseless slavish translation of the English word mission (task) has penetrated into domestic regulatory documents. But this is a trifle. But the question of how far and under what conditions (the level of interference and propagation anomalies) these types of communication should work, according to the TTZ, has not been disclosed. And how to choose or design equipment for this communication?

Filming of the bottom surface and objects in water areas with a water density of 1000–1054 kg / m3.
Measurement of the parameters of the medium (temperature, speed of sound, pressure) in the entire range of working depths of immersion of ANPA-PA.

What are the characteristics and requirements ?! - None of this!

With the requirements for the WWF (the impact of external factors) of this ROC, it becomes obvious that the RF Ministry of Defense with such a "gift" can do only one thing - "hang on the wall" (and preferably very carefully) and not touch.

Questions about what the “stakeholder group” wants to spend 600 million budget rubles on are also “better not to ask”.

In general, at present, this is still a good TTZ (sarcasm). There is at least something in him ...

It can be much worse. For example, when the requirements for its component are set for an underwater vehicle, which are technically realizable only in the mass dimensions of this component is an order of magnitude larger than the maximum for the entire vehicle.

Or another example, when there are no tasks to be solved for the control system of a combat complex (with a "mockingly compact name") in the designation requirements (they need to be invented there at the stage of the draft design). However, the requirements are made "to ensure the departure of the natural needs of personnel." Once again - this is in the requirements for the appointment of a "promising anti-mine complex of the Navy"!

And it was not "some kind of fish." There were already signatures!

A separate question is about the impracticability of a number of “wishes” (requirements) in the TTZ.
The literal phrase of the developer of the TTZ ROC "Lomonos" (allegedly "super torpedoes of the XXI century, but in fact a scam for the development of state money on the endless" fake "ROC, which could not be completed):

What does it mean "it is impossible" if I developed it for them ?!

After that, it is no longer surprising that the organization, the head of the department in which states such phrases, in professional circles began to be called

"Central Research Institute of Shipwreck".


Here, at least briefly, it is necessary to dwell on the problem of "external influencing factors" (from climate and impacts, to EMP of a nuclear explosion and requirements for ionizing radiation).

Of course, these are the requirements necessary for weapons and military equipment, but there are very serious problems with their specification (including simply in terms of their adequacy). It is even worse with the methodology of this issue.

All this is aggravated by the "price tag" of this topic, for example, the cost of testing the ISPUM complex on the impact of EMR was (according to the government procurement website) almost 300 million rubles.

And, since we are talking about tests, it is worth "raising" this topic.

Test impasse


There are certification of such tests (for organizations conducting them). Alas, the situation is not uncommon: if “right now” is an “exorbitant price tag”. Or elsewhere, but after 4 months ... As a result, OCD "stands and waits."

Moreover, "ground" (the slang name for the WWF theme) requires their repetition with any serious modifications (and even more so modernization) of weapons and military equipment.

How all this will look for "promising combat swarms of UAVs" is a very, very "good" question (more precisely, not a good one).

On the test problem just one example of the OKR "Kant" (and there are a lot of such examples on the Navy):

"Offered" to the fleet, without firing a single shot with a combat battery (!), This combat battery has never been tested for the requirements of the Navy (!!!). And from such tests "Gidropribor" shied away like "the devil from incense".

Another example, a few years ago the author of the article was asked his opinion about the "victorious reports" of "Gidropribor" about the "tests" of the equipment upgraded by USET-80 for the "stop target" - a torpedo with small displacement, with a "long" detection distance. However, a careful analysis of the "reports" showed that the "tests" were carried out in lake conditions of very low waves, in conditions of a "cold" near-surface layer (with the formation of an acoustic "channel" with a significant positive anomaly of sound propagation).

Taking into account such "aquarium" test conditions (not related to the sea), the question arises - why was the result so small? In general, on such "slippery" techniques a long time ago, since the 70s of the last century, a system of "tests" of "Gidropribor" was formed and built.

... the developer of programs and methods for such "advanced" tests is the head of the torpedo department of the Central Research Institute of the VC of the Navy. The same person is the developer of the TTZ at the ROC "Lomonos", which was closed due to the deliberately impossible deadlines and requirements, and the lack of scientific and technical groundwork for their implementation.


And further ( link):

Today we do not have a full-fledged scientific and technical groundwork even to write a substantiated TTZ ROC. Example: ROC "Lomonos", which was supposed to become the base in the adopted "Concept for the development of naval underwater weapons."

At the Army-2015 forum it was announced that the Lomonos ROC was closed. The reasons were clear, and they were named - unrealistic terms, unrealistic requirements, lack of a normal scientific and technical groundwork ...

Another example - we did not have a single objective test of modern torpedo launchers against modern countermeasures.

And here we come to the next problem - biased system of testing: for a number of ROC, in fact, it is necessary to revise the results obtained. ... In the NIO of the Navy, where they developed the TTZ ROC "Lomonos", they knew perfectly well the whole unreality of this. Nevertheless, this was done.

Characteristic is the discussion that unfolded at the IGO conference of the Army-2015 forum on one of the “innovative detection systems” that the Navy NIO “prescribed” in almost all current R&D projects. The head of the development organization admitted that from the real groundwork there are only "results of mathematical modeling", and the range is very small. Wherein its introduction was "justified" by the termination of promising research projects on the subject of acoustic CLS! As they say - "a mistake is worse than a crime"! Maybe the point is that the head of the torpedo department of the NIO of the Navy had a thesis on this "innovative topic"?

At the same time, there was:

- the opening of the ROC "Lomonos" on "super torpedoes of the XXI century" without any scientific and technical groundwork, with fantastic performance characteristics and in an unrealistically short time (discontinued in 2015);
- the continuation of the ROC on a deliberately "antique" product with extremely low performance characteristics (much worse than the American Mk48 mod1 torpedo from 1971), and attempts to impose this torpedo on the fleet without carrying out the necessary tests;
- for a long time the absence (in fact - deliberate sabotage) of any serious modernization work on the most promising domestic model - the "Physicist-1" torpedo.

It should be understood that this refers to the naval system (where a lot is really catastrophic), in other types of the RF Armed Forces it is “somewhat better” (but the system is the same, as are the roots of the problems).
Something happened ... But what? It is impossible to get the answer, because this "something" cannot be experienced "as expected."


Something worked out! But what? Ah ... no matter what!

Along with a number of new and really effective weapons and military equipment, we have absolutely shameful examples of "acceptance" by the Ministry of Defense of "facilities" that did not confirm the requirements of the State Contract, and with a host of serious design flaws, for example, 885, 955A projects. Now the same will happen with the lead boat of Project 885M, which again surrenders without anti-torpedoes "Lasta".

Other types of the RF Armed Forces are lucky. There was Syria, where the military and representatives of the defense industry complex were "unpleasantly surprised" and much had to be worked out in a "fire order". Nevertheless, the factor of the "Syrian test site" had extremely positive consequences for our AME.

Is this all our R&D problem?

In no case. All of the above is not chaos, but a prelude to it. And no more. The chaos itself will continue.

Chaos


What is written above is only the “tip of the iceberg” of military R&D problems.

There are “wonderful requirements” for the composition and organization of the development of military equipment (and UAVs), with which the question arises: “How, in general, do the developers still manage to bring something to a series?

What will be given below was written by the well-known Russian specialists indicated at the beginning of the last article in serious technical journals. But it also reads like a harsh “laugh through tears” (it would be more correct to quote another, slightly obscene word).

The system for ordering EKP PVN (element and component base of military products) - no progress. There is trampling, and in the place where trampling (if you live by the rules) is unacceptable. First of all, this concerns the question of who is the customer of the electronic components for the acquisition of weapons and military equipment.

Here is a quote from 7 years ago from the decision…. 7 years have passed. Completed? No. ... means that MPT (Ministry of Industry and Trade) has actually acted and continues to act as a customer of electronic components for military equipment for the last seven years, having no legal basis for that ... But in parallel with the situation when MPT, as a customer of electronic components, operates "outside the law" a number of regulatory legal acts and state military standards, which still seem to force the military to get into the "stuffing", providing for military-scientific support from the Ministry of Defense of work on the creation and application of EEE.

In this regard, fulfilling the relevant instructions of the Minister of Defense, the head of the Office of Military Representations of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation (UVP of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation) "reminded" his subordinates of the VP by instruction No. 251/5/8662 dated 09.11.2016 the list of documents (TZ, TT, TU, catalog descriptions, various kinds of solutions, etc.), requiring agreement with them. Thus, the dual power in the area of ​​ECB continues. It also continues in relation to the list of electronic components permitted for use in weapons and military equipment. Recall that in the spring of 2015 two lists were prepared for publication: the Ministry of Defense (ERI) and the Ministry of Industry and Trade (EKB) ... The departments fought each for their own list. The MPT won: in March 2015, he himself approved the Regulation on the list of EEE. And three months later, the military-industrial commission - the military-industrial complex put it into operation.

“We missed the list,” the Department of Armaments lamented.

The head of the Internal Affairs Directorate of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, by instruction No. 251/5/5307 of 21.07.2015/2015/XNUMX, clarified: The regulations on the list have been approved, but the list itself is not yet available, and demanded .... (Feel the situation: the military-industrial complex, by its decision, established the mandatory list of electronic components in XNUMX, and the head of one of the units of the Ministry of Defense allowed himself to postpone it for a year).

In the meantime, according to available information, the Ministry of Defense in this part continues to duplicate the functions of the MPT: the Main Directorate of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation continues to maintain its list, dragging it to the defense industry enterprises from the back door, simply sending it through unofficial channels.
As a result, consumers experience a split personality.
The list by its status is a permissive document, in fact, it is an EEE pass to the defense market.

In this regard, it seems that the struggle of the two departments for the list may be related to their desire to secure licensing rights for themselves ... Is it possible to use a foreign commercial EEE in the AME, but not a commercial domestic one?

Components, you say? Also foreign?
From the article “Electronic components of foreign production. Export restrictions to Russia "V. Kochemasov, E. Stroganova ( link

Imported components account for up to 70% of the entire electronic component base used in the production of Russian weapons and equipment for space.

Again we read the respected authors in "Automation Tools and Technologies":

The use of IWT EKB IP (foreign suppliers) ... The first thing that catches your eye is there have been two different documents on the same topic for almost two years... How can this be? It turns out that it can. And this is due to the fact that the "tug of war" between the Ministry of Defense and the MPT is not only along the line of the EEE list, but also on this issue.

In the summer of 2015, the MPT made a breakthrough and, as it were, secured an advantage: on June 2, he himself approved the regulation of the REC 05.002-2015, and then did what no one had been able to do so far - by the decision of the MIC collegium of August 7, he “put into effect” the unreleased document “ ". At the same time, being clearly interdepartmental, it seems that he did not visit the Ministry of Justice for registration. The Ministry of Defense reacted sluggishly to this event: the head of the Internal Affairs Directorate of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, by his order No. 251/5/6866 dated 18.09.2015/05.0022015/XNUMX, only notified his VPs about it. But the "put into effect" REC XNUMX really could not act in any way due to the lack of specifics ... Industry and the EP were confused: What Bible to live by? Where to run: to the Moscow Region (branch 46 of the Central Research Institute of the Moscow Region), as prescribed by the instruction introduced by Order No. 1555, or to the MPT (MNIIRIP), as established in REC 05.002-2015?

Requests poured down to various authorities. The answers literally boiled down to a confession: "We don't know." DOGOZ, in particular, answered: "The decision will be made as soon as possible." The Office of the VP of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation in its responses was more specific, referring to clause 4.2 of the same August 2015 protocol of the military-industrial complex, which approved the REC 05.002-2015: “A working group has been created in the MO to amend the order of the RF Ministry of Defense No. 1555 dated 20.06.2012” Almost two years have passed. It looks like they forgot to set a task for the working group ...

As a result, we have a situation in which the defense industry enterprises were stunned and rushed between MNIIRIP and branch 46 of the Central Research Institute of the Ministry of Defense, fortunately, they are nearby. At the same time, they need to comply with the "SDA" invented by both the Ministry of Defense and MPT ... In the meantime, in radio electronics (yes, apparently, in other industries), import substitution is implemented in different ways: by pasting labels, assembling from foreign platforms, assembling from foreign components, well, and assembly entirely from domestic components ...


Regarding the procedure for using “not EEE” in AME, the vacuum in this matter in August 2016 was “sort of” closed by the recommendations of the Main Armament Directorate of the RF Armed Forces (from which the Ministry of Industry and Trade “stole” EEE), which had been promised to soon grow into a regulatory document. Their essence is a return to order number 41 MO with the registration of decisions on the use of "gears and nails" with the receipt of several dozen approving signatures. So we have to live more fun.


Think about it here ...

Just using civilian products in the Ministry of Defense? For example, as Rear Admiral Dudko (the most successful commander of our submarine during the Cold War, - “At the forefront of the underwater confrontation. "Cold War" submarine ") imported spectrum analyzer:

We received unique tools, methods and techniques for tracking submarines in the natural environment. A unique tracking experience, completely new ways of checking the lack of tracking of our missile carriers, which, unfortunately, didn’t interest anyone (either because of their employment, they either didn’t believe or didn’t want to acknowledge the low secrecy of the PKK SN in “protected” areas). ... The flotilla had only two spectral analysis devices. One was always at the headquarters, and the second was taken by me ...

Now this is not possible. And here the prosecutor's office, and the "Ministry of Defense snowmen" and "the most competent authorities" are on guard.

The author knows an example when the hard drive of a "non-standard attachment" to a hydroacoustic complex with valuable intelligence after one of the combat services was simply destroyed (smashed with a sledgehammer) in order to avoid "the most serious consequences" for officers who "dared" to connect something "abnormal and inconsistent »To the top-secret hydroacoustic complex. I would like to emphasize that despite the fact that this event took place almost two decades ago, the received and destroyed data were (and still are) extremely valuable and could have a significant impact not only on the current, but also planned today GPV.
Are there any solutions here? Of course. And they were (during the Soviet era):

... A draft military standard was developed (by analogy with the previously in force, but probably due to misunderstanding canceled back in 2007 without replacement - GOST * 15.214-90 "SRPP. National economic products supplied to organizations of the USSR Ministry of Defense") in order to regulate this aspect , but for several years now it has not been possible to bring it to approval: the resistance of those who are afraid of expanding the competitive environment is too great.

And this is also "not all"!

How do you, for example, the requirement to install in all domestic robotic systems (which at the same time began to be interpreted as broadly as possible, in order to maximize the coverage of all possible topics by the "new concern") of an extremely expensive "candy" (in conversation, usually "this" is called a "brick", even though outwardly "this" has nothing to do with it, is it more likely the meaning of the "stone on the neck" of the developers and their products)?

The "confectionery factory" that lobbied for "this" ensured itself a very comfortable existence for very many years. The problem is not so much that with the "candy" the cost of products and complexes "soars" sharply, the problem is that the development becomes more complicated, their cost significantly increases and the formation of the so-called "network-centric combat systems" is extremely difficult.

Of course, all this is "for the sake of the Motherland": "the enemy is insidious", "surrounds" ... Accordingly, those who tried to stop this cutting and undermining the combat capability of the RF Armed Forces are "certainly enemies of the Motherland" (and they need to "consider the issue very carefully" ).

The fact that in Syria, for example, all our weapons have been successfully conquered (including in the face of serious opposition) without this "candy" is simply not accepted. And they try not to speak loudly about the fact that the widespread use of such "sweets" can entail extremely serious consequences for the country's defense capability ...

Is there any way to get around these broken schemes and rules?

You can, but ...

"Make it easier" or workarounds


"It happens". And that will be the most accurate word.

When he was the first Deputy Minister Borisov Y.I., he often took on personal responsibility (signature) in "difficult situations" (for which he had great respect from both industry and subordinates), and it was an "indulgence" for DOGOZ and UVP (subordinates to him) to provide and accept work (and industry - to work). I emphasize that Yuri Ivanovich did this not only without "personal gain" (here, on the contrary, he could get serious personal problems on this), but for the Cause.


"No comment". Photo circa 2015

However, a lot has changed since those "blessed times", and too often not for the better ...

Here it is necessary to note the tendency of carrying out “de facto R&D” through “de jure” “revision” of weapons and military equipment (within the framework of GOST RV 203 (OKR), but “serial” GOST 307). The most striking example of this is the creation of a new RTO project 22800 "Karakurt" in the form of a "serial" government contract (ie, without ROC, but with the actual implementation of ROC works). At the same time, the industry in the form of the Almaz Central Marine Design Bureau and the Pella LSSZ not only did not disappoint, but did just a feat: the time for the creation of the head 22800 (with all the problems) turned out to be less than the head MRK of project 1234 during the Soviet era.

So it is possible to "make it easier", but the "rules of the game" practically cease to exist. And even with good, but "notions" the road is "paved" where ... And (for all the success of the 22800 project) the very fact of its successful implementation emphasizes all the flawedness of the existing system and organization of development (ie ROC) of the Ministry of Defense.

But it happens “even simpler”: figuratively speaking, there is a “military zone of survival”, where someone gives all the best in “full combat gear”. For example, with all the "Russian requirements" for EEE and VVF, despite the fact that nearby competitors may "run in shorts and sports slippers" (for example, with products with "export EEE") ...

And these are really two completely different "sports" ... But at least they run (and do). For it is even more “fun” when other competitors “lay out” on this “strip”, some of them comfortably observe “from the sidelines”.

Moreover, those who formally have to "in the tail and mane" drive the negligent on this "strip" are also forced to please such "performers". It's just that they are "very authoritative people" (and sometimes just "authoritative businessmen", and since the 90s).
There are those who have learned to skillfully “catch their fish” in all this “muddy water”.


And here "financial interest" is absolutely optional. There is an example of a very dexterous military official (so dexterous that he was able to successfully "cancel" the decisions of the Supreme, of course, all of this - "in strict accordance with the current legislation" and decisions (visas) of higher officials), for whom the motivation was precisely in "jerking by the strings "and how they feared him and were forced to" bow down. " A person did not hesitate to bend the whole country and play with the security of the state just in order to please his ego.

Are the prices for military products unreasonably high in our country?

What if the industry is simply forced to do so? Just because "without winding up" the cost price, you cannot survive ... "Just quotes":

Now about the money. Have we learned to count them in the SDO area? No, they didn't. Our President agrees with this statement: “It would be good if we had a single document on pricing. I don’t know how to thank you if you would at least submit a draft of such a document, because the Ministry of Economic Development is not yet in a position to present this draft to us, ”V. Putin said unexpectedlyaddressing the participants of the All-Russian Popular Front Forum on November 18, 2014.

By "bye" the President obviously meant a 10-year period from the moment (2005) of setting such a task before the above-mentioned profile ministry.

In 2012, he set the same task for D. Rogozin: “Bring it to the end together with the economic bloc; it needs to be completed. " The same task with a deadline in 2012 V. Putin outlined in his Decree [14]. In pursuance of this Decree, the Government of the Russian Federation, by its Resolution No. 1216 of 23.11.2012, introduced into the Regulations on the military-industrial complex the function of determining the order of pricing for defense products. A year later, as a report on the solution (more precisely, on the non-solution) of this problem, speaking in the State Duma of the Russian Federation, D. Rogozin stated: "...

Much has been said about the fact that the costly pricing mechanism does not stimulate producers to reduce costs ... In our previous articles, we noted a contradiction between Instruction 179 of the Ministry of Economic Development and Law 94-FZ: in accordance with this law, the contract price must be equal to the price of winning the tender, and according to the 179th instruction, the price must be agreed with the VP, the state customer and the consumer.

It turned out to be absurd: I won the competition, and then agree on the price.
At one time, at the request of the chief of armaments of the RF Armed Forces on this matter The Ministry of Economic Development and Trade answered: yes, instruction 179 is incorrect. But it did not cancel it. Now the same contradiction "got out" between 44-FZ and the fresh version of 275-FZ, according to which (Article 8.3, clause "c") profit is fixed in the contract, which, in turn, is normalized that is understandable to an informed reader and is widely criticized the formula "20 + 1". Criticized for the inability of enterprises to form an advanced scientific groundwork for research and development work, to properly train personnel, to carry out rearmament. It is more profitable to "sharpen the bolts". Well, and the rate of return of 1% for pure intermediaries can, in general, wash them out like a class….

... performers are stupidly driven into the framework of a costly mechanism. Who is driving? Military representatives! After all, it was he who was instructed by Decree of the Government of the Russian Federation No. 612 to control prices based on the calculation and calculation materials (RCM), which are the essence of the cost mechanism. The thicker the stack of these RCMs, the more "reasonable" the price is. And it doesn't matter that on the free market this piece of hardware is N times cheaper or M times more expensive - the military representative does not look there, as long as the RCMs are in order. As a result, either there is an absolutely "legitimate" overpayment of budget money, or the supplier's hands are twisted, forcing him to sell products at a price below the market price.

... a speculative method demonstrated by S. Shoigu at the 19th test site of the Navy near St. Petersburg in July 2013. There he was shown a tracked platform the size of a shoebox with a video camera. It was offered at a price of 30 million rubles. S. Shoigu did not check the calculation, which, it is possible, indeed confirms the costs incurred. “I’m better at Detsky Mir, buy it cheaper”, - he commented, thus showing a vivid example of albeit speculative, but correct and competent market pricing.

Former Deputy Head of the Armaments Directorate of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation A. Rakhmanov is categorical in his assessment of the unacceptability of the cost method: “We need to switch to a completely different regulatory framework for pricing, leave money for the industry to expand and re-equip production. The cost of the work, the number of people, the salary plus a small profit margin - that's the whole price. This is a completely useless method that has outlived its usefulness. " Let us add on our behalf: it has become obsolete where there is a competitive market ... In the case of a single supplier, cost-based pricing cannot be avoided by means of calculation..

conclusions


The system needs to be changed, and as quickly as possible.

And the first thing here is the realization of the full severity of R&D problems (by the way, they are quite solvable). But in no case break the system (massively canceling the old GOSTs).

It would be correct to allow deviations from the normative documents "authorized" by the customer and maintain their register, as a result of which, in 5-6 years, there will be reliable grounds for the proper and justified introduction of already worked out new normative documents that ensure normal effective work.

This work cannot be done "only by the Ministry of Defense". This is a complex and painstaking interdepartmental work that can be led only by the military-industrial complex (Military-Industrial Commission).

Note that the real reason for the problems (with the already scandalous anti-torpedo “Lasta”) is precisely in the regulatory framework. And “Lasta” is not just a “problem” and “special case” here, but a “key” for solving a number of extremely acute and dangerous “deep problems” of our AME.

But for this it is necessary at least to begin to conduct the necessary tests, to ask officials who deliberately sabotaged and sabotaged the work.

Definitely, it is necessary to restore order with the relevant structures of the Ministry of Defense, with the provision of the necessary resources for solving problems to those who actually solve them and are responsible for the Cause. And the first thing that is needed here is the introduction of double subordination of DOGOZ and UVP - incl. to the deputy commander-in-chief of the branches of the Armed Forces for armaments.

And one more very important point.

Despite all these difficulties, we have real successes and achievements in the creation of weapons and military equipment. And they need to be appreciated and respected.

This is not just work at the computer or at the machine until the end of the working day (and there is "the sea to the castle"). These are constant nerves, “breaking walls”, “running with obstacles” - to do the impossible, and “even yesterday”. Because "the document is under control," but they just sent it, and so on.

And those who make (and participate in this work, including on the part of the customer) really worthy domestic weapons (and not "golden guns on the wall") deserve every respect from society.

PS


From the article already cited above:

It was decided not to cut the defense budget of Russia in its current difficult situation, so that the GPV 2011–2020 would certainly be fulfilled. But money is not everything.

Also important are competent, clear, complete, unambiguous, optimal rules of the game for all participants in the SDO. Today, these rules, along with their dubious status, have simply an ugly quality and elements of contradiction.

Our already 10-year observation "from below" of the dynamics of the regulatory framework in this area, including military electronics (with timid attempts to make some positive contribution to this matter), allow us to state that the process (more precisely, fuss) is going on, but slowly, inconsistently and awkwardly ...

We need a result. It does not exist, and if the trend continues, it is not expected in the near future. But we are talking about the defense of the country, and not about love, where the process is often more important than the result, and the more chaotic, the more enjoyable.

Huge funds from the state budget are drowning in a bureaucratic quagmire, not turning into pieces of smart weapons and military equipment that Russia needs so much today.
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  1. Lexus
    Lexus 24 December 2020 04: 52
    +8
    Against the background of Shoigu, the military personnel even remember "stooltkin" with a kind word. Draw conclusions.
    1. Pessimist22
      Pessimist22 24 December 2020 05: 51
      +14
      I don't understand at all how a graduate builder, after the military department wears a general's uniform.
      1. Aerodrome
        Aerodrome 24 December 2020 06: 01
        +10
        so wait for new destroyers with such a leapfrog ... "effective managers", what do you say ...
        1. Stas157
          Stas157 24 December 2020 08: 07
          +19
          ... "Make it easier" or workarounds

          All through the train.

          ... Huge funds from the state budget are drowning in a bureaucratic quagmire

          This has long been the norm in the current system. In one place there is a critical shortage of money (there is none), and in another, bureaucrats are using it in abundance.

          ... conclusions

          The system needs to be changed, and as quickly as possible.

          The only possible and correct way out. Change, and the head itself. Well, you understand.
          1. Minato2020
            Minato2020 25 December 2020 05: 52
            +1
            Quote: Stas157

            This has long been the norm in the current system. In one place there is a critical shortage of money (there is none), and in another, bureaucrats are using it in abundance.


            That is why Shoigu announced the unjustified outsourcing in the army. That is, he tried to cover the feeding trough for the freeloaders.
            The outsourcing system in the army that took shape by 2012 did not justify itself in everything. This was announced at a meeting of the Duma Defense Committee by Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu.
            According to him, the tasks of providing troops in combat conditions were not solved. In particular, the equipment was not repaired, fuel and lubricants were not delivered to the areas of field exits, and there was no one to feed the military.

            “In fact, outsourcing developed only where it brought good income and there were no obligations,” the minister said.
            https://www.rbc.ru/rbcfreenews/5c8645259a79474be006f30b
          2. Skifotavr
            Skifotavr 27 December 2020 04: 42
            0
            Quote: Stas157
            The only possible and correct way out. Change, and the head itself. Well, you understand.

            smile
      2. Lannan Shi
        Lannan Shi 24 December 2020 09: 20
        +10
        Quote: Pessimist22
        I don't understand at all how a graduate builder, after the military department wears a general's uniform.

        Dad is the secretary of the regional committee. Shoigu himself is a "golden boy" who was dragged by the ears from a foreman to the head of a trust in 5 or 6 years. Close friends of an alcoholic posing as the country's president. Mr. Shoigu justified his confidence by promising to open the arsenals of the Rescue Corps (well, there was no Emergencies Ministry, alas) to protect Yeltsin. In fact, one of the most active participants in the collapse of the USSR and Yeltsin's mess. Well, how can such a sweetheart not give general epaulettes? The frame is proven, well-deserved. In fact ... A person of the same order with different Chubais. Only focused on the power sphere. And therefore, even theoretically unsinkable, and highly respected. yes
        1. Pessimist22
          Pessimist22 24 December 2020 09: 55
          +4
          I'll tell you one story, I was in Tuva at the end of the 90s, on business, meat from Mongolia was taken to Novosibirsk, exchanged for flour and gasoline, well, in Kyzyl I met a man, he agreed with the Mongols about barter, so here he is he told me that he was studying in Krasnoyarsk then (I don't remember the year) in his fifth year, and Shoigu was in his first year, says an ordinary boy, dad is in Tuva on the party line, you don't really roam, and then he successfully married the daughter of some boss of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union from Krasnoyarsk, So his father-in-law pushed him to Moscow, he had friends there, that's the story.
          1. Minato2020
            Minato2020 25 December 2020 05: 58
            0
            Quote: Pessimist22

            ... and then he successfully married the daughter of some KPSS boss from Krasnoyarsk, so his father-in-law pushed him to Moscow ...


            Serdyukov also successfully married, for his activities, according to unconfirmed reports, he received a Hero (press secretary of Dmitry Medvedev Natalia Timakova denied)

            Medvedev awarded Serdyukov the title of Hero of Russia
            Former Defense Minister Anatoly Serdyukov in 2012 a secret decree was awarded the title of Hero of Russia, writes "Nezavisimaya Gazeta". If the case against the ex-minister goes to court, the presence of the highest award will be taken into account as a mitigating circumstance.
            If Serdyukov's guilt is proven on the basis of a crime under Part 1 of Article 293 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation (negligence), he is unlikely to go to jail. The maximum punishment for this crime is correctional labor for up to a year. The presence of the highest award, according to the publication, will help the ex-minister avoid punishment.

            March 20, 2012 At the last collegium of the Ministry of Defense for him, President Dmitry Medvedev praised the work of the department's leadership and said that "the reform of the Armed Forces is practically completed." At the same time, according to the newspaper, the award ceremony took place. In addition to Serdyukov, ex-chief of the General Staff Nikolai Makarov was noted.
            "This document, signed by Dmitry Medvedev, was classified.
            They were awarded in a closed room, away from prying eyes, but a certain circle of people in the Ministry of Defense, the Kremlin and society, of course, knew about it, "Nezavisimaya Gazeta quotes the chairman of the association of associations of reserve officers of the Armed Forces" Megapir ", Major General of the reserve Vladimir Bogatyrev.

            https://www.rbc.ru/society/10/02/2014/5704173f9a794761c0ce678f
      3. MoJloT
        MoJloT 24 December 2020 10: 23
        0
        after the military department
        What's that in Germany, the Minister of Defense, a gynecologist! True, they do not have such problems.
        1. your1970
          your1970 17 February 2021 07: 59
          0
          Quote: MoJloT
          after the military department
          What's that in Germany, the Minister of Defense, a gynecologist! True, they do not have such problems.

          Come on ... And the scandal with the development of a uniform for pregnant women in the Bundeswehr? Not? 600 million euros - zhzhzhuh and bye-bye ...
      4. bk316
        bk316 24 December 2020 12: 14
        +2
        I don't understand at all as a graduate builder,after the military department wears a general's uniform.

        Do you understand how the graduate of the seminary wore it?
      5. Ross xnumx
        Ross xnumx 25 December 2020 18: 21
        +1
        Quote: Pessimist22
        I don't understand at all how a graduate builder, after the military department wears a general's uniform.

        But like this...
        But the direction is correct! fellow
    2. Civil
      Civil 24 December 2020 07: 21
      +10
      You have to be like a Russian - at the age of 26, Major General of the RA. That's all you need to know about MO.
      1. Pessimist22
        Pessimist22 24 December 2020 08: 06
        +15
        A defense minister without a specialized education, a general of the army, assigns the rank of general to everyone he wants, this is all you need to know about the Ministry of Defense. The title of general is devalued as is the title of Hero of Russia.
        1. An64
          An64 24 December 2020 11: 15
          +5
          The rank of general is devalued as is the title of Hero of Russia

          Absolutely agree. The title of a hero of Russia has been devalued to such an extent that the new "heroes" are embarrassed to put on their stars - Borisov, Rudskoy, Kiriyenko, I don't know who else - they are all heroes by closed decrees. Borisov only comes to the issues of his Tver SVU with a star ...
        2. your1970
          your1970 17 February 2021 07: 56
          0
          Quote: Pessimist22
          Minister of Defense without specialized education, general of the army, assigns the rank of general to everyone he wants

          There was such a seminarian ... no military education at all ... He did not even have the "Shot" courses ...
          Nevertheless, I hope you will not argue, that the IVS had every right to wear the uniform of a Marshal of the USSR?
    3. Doctor
      Doctor 24 December 2020 11: 00
      +4
      Against the background of Shoigu, the military personnel even remember "stooltkin" with a kind word. Draw conclusions.

      That's right. The Ministry of Emergency Situations sighed happily when he left them. laughing
      And he took his habits with him.
      30% of doctors in central hospitals now spend money on senseless business trips to garrisons.
      Typically gain. wink
      1. bk316
        bk316 24 December 2020 12: 16
        +2
        The Ministry of Emergency Situations sighed happily when he left them

        This you will put lying.
        Although it depends on who you call the Ministry of Emergency Situations nicknames .... Shoigu collected the service piece by piece from what was.
        1. Doctor
          Doctor 24 December 2020 13: 07
          +3
          This you will put lying.
          Although it depends on who you call the Ministry of Emergency Situations nicknames .... Shoigu collected the service piece by piece from what was.

          They sighed happily in the sense of relaxing. wink
          For military medicine in general, this is the best minister in recent decades. The Academy not only saved from a devastating move, but also raised to unprecedented heights.
          There are nuances like the same business trips, but it is tolerable.
          1. bk316
            bk316 24 December 2020 13: 26
            +5
            They sighed happily in the sense of relaxing.

            Pancake. Well, you write more clearly.
            Now we will change minuses to pluses. laughing
            It was high time to take up military medicine.
            And business trips, life is such ... Over there, the surgeons I knew were driven through Syria, just like pilots.
    4. An64
      An64 24 December 2020 11: 09
      -1
      regular military personnel even remember "stooltkin" with a kind word

      Why even? If you look without prejudice and thoughtfully at the GPV, then everything that they are now trying to hand over to the customer was either pledged or started financing under Serdyukov. Of course, he looked with skepticism at the possibilities of our industry, which is why Mistrals and Iveco were proposed, and much more. Not patriotic, but rational.
      1. Minato2020
        Minato2020 25 December 2020 06: 05
        +1
        Quote: An64

        If you look without prejudice and thoughtfully at the GPV, then everything that they are now trying to hand over to the customer was either pledged or started financing under Serdyukov.


        Some of the foreign purchases have already been forgotten.
        There was a decision of the Minister of Defense Anatoly Serdyukov No. 235/1/1/5899 to equip all the ships of the Navy with furniture and sanitary equipment from the British company Strong Box Marine Furniture.
        The document was signed by the minister in November 2011
        "Defense Minister Anatoly Serdyukov approved the equipment of promising warships with furniture and latrines of the British firm Strong Box Marine Furniture LTD.
        Among the ships on which the products of the British company will be installed
        - frigates of project 22350 "Admiral Gorshkov",
        project 11356 "Admiral Essen",
        corvettes of project 20380/20385,
        MRK project 21631,
        MAK project 21630 ... "
        https://aif.ru/society/army/29599

        Interviewed domestic manufacturers of similar products were surprised by the decision of the Ministry of Defense and the Navy to purchase furniture and sanitary ware abroad, since Russian enterprises have all the conditions for the manufacture of metal furniture, which may well compete with analogs from England, but will cost much less.

        But then things went wrong: the British company Strong Box Marine Furniture Ltd (SMF), which once an experienced sales manager looked after for this purpose, take it and turn out to be bankrupt.

        It is interesting that a company that goes bankrupt and the money disappears is chosen as a partner. Does this remind you of anything?
        This is the standard scheme of embezzlement of public funds, tested back in the 90s!
    5. businessv
      businessv 24 December 2020 18: 00
      +5
      Quote: lexus
      Against the background of Shoigu, the military personnel even remember "stooltkin" with a kind word. Draw conclusions.
      The conclusion is as follows: until Shoigu became Minister of Emergency Situations, a mess and anarchy reigned in this office, which did not become after his arrival and the Ministry of Emergency Situations was raised to an unprecedented height. After the "reform" of our Armed Forces and many landings of the participants in this process, the Armed Forces of Russia were more similar to the also reformed, but much later, Ministry of Health. After Shoigu was appointed minister of defense, the military began to receive money, apartments, new weapons began to appear, and our army became similar to the Russian Army, which is said today in the world, not only in the military. Well, we all know today how our medical department is involved in eliminating the consequences of reforming our healthcare! It seems to me that Shoigu is the only sane business executive and leader in the government of our country, which indirectly confirms his attitude to the so-called OCD, and this can be seen in the video given in the article.
      1. Lexus
        Lexus 24 December 2020 18: 09
        0
        You should not buy for show and wishful thinking. I communicate with the military every day - those who, by vocation, call their hearts, and not for grandmothers, huts and other nishtyaks, throw up their hands and shyly peck at uncomfortable questions. The video is nonsense.
        1. businessv
          businessv 24 December 2020 19: 55
          +3
          Quote: lexus
          The video is nonsense.

          That is, do not believe your eyes and ears! Is this all from the evil one ?! smile We also have a lot of soldiers in Sevastopol. Maybe less than in your city, although Sevastopol is a city of servicemen of all types of troops, but my post is based on their statements! hi
          1. Lexus
            Lexus 24 December 2020 20: 18
            0
            In the opinion of the pseudo-Russian companies of the "friend of friends" Crimea and Sevastopol are still not ours. Do your military seriously think that 100 flight hours for pilots is the ultimate dream? Six submarines according to the ancient design and 3 non-Indian "Admirals" - this is the Fleet? Or is their beeping of a smartphone with a "dummy" telecom operator upon the arrival of a salary on the card of a "left" bank inspires heroic deeds? How, by the way, with water? Here is the answer. hi
            1. businessv
              businessv 24 December 2020 20: 42
              +3
              Quote: lexus
              Do your military seriously think that 100 flight hours for pilots is the ultimate dream?
              What city do you live in, if not a secret? In our about 100 hours of flight time, pilots somehow do not really spread, especially about whether they are satisfied with it or not. They talk to us about purely everyday topics due to the fact that we do not really understand their specifics. As you are, it seems to me. Well, about the "left" banks and the salaries coming to them, this is not your concern at all due to the fact that it does not concern you in any way, judging by your post and do not pay attention to the ringing if you do not know where it is! This means - write only about what you know, and do not rely on rumors, answering people who deal with the topic under discussion on a daily basis! With water we, thank God, is normal, no matter how sad you are! I am glad that everything in your city is much better than ours! hi
        2. Evil Booth
          Evil Booth 25 December 2020 21: 52
          0
          the Pentagon cannot account for trillions of dollars and is not going to. almost all US manufacturers are private traders. THIS IS OTHER tongue
      2. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 24 December 2020 20: 10
        +1
        Quote: businessv
        After Shoigu was appointed Minister of Defense, the military began to receive money, apartments, new weapons began to appear and our army became similar to the Russian Army,

        Uh-huh ... Shoigu came, waved his hand - and at the pike's command, new weapons immediately began to appear. smile
        EMNIP, until 2017, the Armed Forces received exclusively Serdyukov orders. And the last Su-34s under the second Serdyukov contract were delivered only in July of this year.
        1. businessv
          businessv 24 December 2020 20: 17
          +3
          Quote: Alexey RA
          Shoigu came, waved his hand - and at the behest of a pike, new weapons immediately began to appear.

          That is, Shoigu, since 2012, has been messing around, appropriating the laurels of the reformer Serdyukov? And only in the last 3 years did he start doing at least something because he was uncomfortable in front of his older comrades? wink I will consider!
        2. Minato2020
          Minato2020 25 December 2020 06: 15
          0
          Quote: Alexey RA

          EMNIP, until 2017, the Armed Forces received exclusively Serdyukov orders. And the last Su-34s under the second Serdyukov contract were delivered only in July of this year.


          Anatoly Serdyukov, industrial director of the aviation cluster of the state corporation Rostec, said that the debts to the banks of the largest defense holding UAC (United Aircraft Corporation, part of Rostec) amount to 530 billion rubles

          How cute! Make debts on your own and start writing off and restructuring them yourself! The dream of any thief and mismanaged manager! What am I talking about? And that from 2007 to 2012, Mr. Serdyukov "ruled" the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation and it was at this time that a lot of money went to the military-industrial complex to re-equip the army. They signed hundreds of contracts for the supply of equipment and weapons.
          The enterprises got involved in the work and ... with all their heads rested their heads against the very specific policy of the Ministry of Defense in terms of financing the state order. Instead of timely and accurate payment for him, Serdyukov and a bunch of those who came with him to "steer" the "green men" (as one Serdyukov passion called the military) his henchmen began to actually break the entire system of relations between the Defense Ministry and the military-industrial complex.

          The military budget under Serdyukov began to be adopted instead of November-December of the previous year only in January-February of this year, and the first money from the new budget went to the budgets of enterprises only in May, or even in June! But plants of a continuous cycle, assembly plants must work without interruptions and failures. This requires timely and regular deliveries of materials and components - and this is money! And in order not to stop the factories and factories, their directors were forced to go to banks with outstretched hands, begging for loans against future budget money. Banks, of course, gave money! But at such extortionate interest rates that the leadership of the military-industrial complex simply gritted their teeth - they should have had only crumbs of future profits, despite the fact that the profitability of military products did not exceed 3-5% anyway!

          But there is more! In the best traditions of the boys in the Sochi market, Tolik undertook to set prices for military products himself. The general director of the factories is well understood as "sorduttki" - and from the nuclear power plant to the financial management of the Ministry of Defense a whole brood of thoroughbreds, like Arabian horses, feminines came to feed - they threw out calculation tables of factories right in front of the directors and explained that this was all waste , and instead of them the factories were given their own "calculations", after which these factories went into a deep minus, and many simply went bankrupt.

          Today Serdyukov really does not like to remember how President Putin personally had to go to Sevmash and deal with such "pricing" in which the construction of strategic missile submarines was practically paralyzed! Or, as the leading takostroitelnoe association "Uralvagonzavod", after such a "sequestration" of prices became unprofitable and slipped to the brink of bankruptcy.

          Eduardych is also silent about how, in violation of the law, he bought foreign equipment and weapons out of competition - Italian armored vehicles, British sniper rifles, Israeli drones. As he promised to transfer the fleet to German diesel engines, and even through the mouth of his deputy Vladimir Popovkin, he hinted that domestic tanks are too expensive and that it would be cheaper to buy German "leopards".
          How even the theoretical basis in the publications of the Proserdyuk media was put under it ...

          https://shurigin.livejournal.com/842697.html
          1. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA 25 December 2020 11: 09
            +1
            Quote: Minato2020
            Or, as the leading takostroitelnoe association "Uralvagonzavod", after such a "sequestration" of prices became unprofitable and slipped to the brink of bankruptcy.

            Poor, poor UVZ. After all, few people already remember that this plant, taking advantage of its position as a monopolist, raised the price of the T-90 by almost 70% in a year - from 70 million to 118 million rubles (the budget of the Moscow region is large - it will not become poorer). Postnikov then blurted out in his hearts that it was cheaper to buy Leopards.
            And then the company's management was wildly surprised that the Ministry of Defense refused to purchase these tanks and chose the budgetary modernization of the T-72B into the T-72B3. laughing
            Quote: Minato2020
            Eduardych is also silent about how, in violation of the law, he bought foreign equipment and weapons out of competition - Italian armored vehicles, British sniper rifles, Israeli drones.

            Shurygin, as always, keeps readers for aquarium fish with a five-minute memory.
            Or did he himself forget that he rolled out the domestic military-industrial complex under the UAV brand under Serdyukov? That's right - "Tipchak". The project of the late 80s with a line TV camera, time and flight radius like a small tactical UAV, but required as many as 5 Kamaz vehicles. At that time, the Russian Federation had no analogues of Searcher.
            For British rifles, the situation is the same - the military-industrial complex has shaken off dust from Soviet drawings. The result turned out to be more expensive, unreliable and worse in terms of equipment than the AI ​​AW. And once again, the managers from the military-industrial complex flew by with their favorite trick - "take what you have, there won't be another." It turned out that it will be.
            As for the Ryses, their purchase forced GAZ to finally listen to the demands of the military and begin to eliminate the shortcomings of the Tigers, which the plant had been hammering in for years (this is a monopoly).

            In general, if you read Shurygin, an apocalyptic picture emerges of how the MO humiliates and breaks the military-industrial complex through the knee. "Industry dictate"- no, I have not.
            1. Evil Booth
              Evil Booth 25 December 2020 21: 54
              0
              suddenly the tank itself is inappropriate to buy! it already exists. but changing the LMS is the most expensive thing in the tank. but you write, of course, by accident, having forgotten probably 5000 times per knock, only they say the price was simply raised and just. and the sights were not changed.
    6. Minato2020
      Minato2020 25 December 2020 05: 49
      0
      Quote: lexus

      Against the background of Shoigu, the military personnel even remember "stooltkin" with a kind word. Draw conclusions.


      Cadre military and other words spoken

      At the suggestion of this "outstanding military reformer" in order to save the treasury, they were put under the knife
      - Irkutsk Higher Military Aviation Engineering School (in 2009),
      - Yeisk Higher Military Aviation School of the Order of Lenin, Pilot School named after twice Hero of the Soviet Union, pilot-cosmonaut Komarov (in 2011),
      - Stavropol Higher Military Aviation School of Pilots and Navigators of Air Defense named after Air Marshal Sudets (in 2010),
      - Tambov Higher Military Aviation Engineering of the Order of Lenin Red Banner School named after Dzerzhinsky (in 2009).

      In 2009, the scythe of the "Serdyukov reform" was brought even over the Chelyabinsk Higher Aviation School of Navigators.
      But with the foreordained liquidation of the school, they held out just until Serdyukov's resignation from the MO chair.

      Defense Minister Serdyukov's military reforms cost Russia dearly.
      Which of the ancients said very accurately:
      "The one who does not teach the lessons of History is soon deleted from History!"
      It somehow happened that the entire analysis of the war in South Ossetia focused on the actions of troops in the conflict area. Newspapers and magazines write about the actions of the army. Television programs and talk shows are dedicated to them.
      Of course, this analysis is extremely important. And it is necessary to draw the right conclusions, both from the mistakes made by the troops on the battlefield, and from the successes and successes of the RF Armed Forces.
      But at the same time, the actions of another key participant in these events - the top military leadership of the army - somehow fell out of the spotlight.

      If you think the stated is not true, then answer here just like that, to a simple question. Who and how made the decision to send troops into South Ossetia, how many hours Makarov could not find Serdyukov, and what condition he (Serdyukov) was in and what he said to the news about the shelling of Tskhinval. And where was the Minister of Defense of the Russian Federation 08.08.08 and in the future.
      But the Minister of Defense must always be in touch, if only because of the presence of a nuclear briefcase - a communication device with the command center of the Strategic Missile Forces
  2. Evil Booth
    Evil Booth 24 December 2020 05: 25
    -34%
    FSE chief is gone! a tornado can bomb it at night, any melt m16 wedges abrams burns and forever in repair leclerk just do it easier not to start a zoomvolt out an English avik drowned one i don't understand where does the RF Ministry of Defense.
    1. Aerodrome
      Aerodrome 24 December 2020 06: 01
      +11
      Quote: Evil Booth
      FSE chief is gone! a tornado can bomb it at night, any melt m16 wedges abrams burns and forever in repair leclerk just do it easier not to start a zoomvolt out an English avik drowned one i don't understand where does the RF Ministry of Defense.

      Catch the addict !!! wassat
      1. Evil Booth
        Evil Booth 24 December 2020 07: 42
        -11%
        Ф35 is the best development! will not catch. laughing
        1. Pessimist22
          Pessimist22 24 December 2020 08: 41
          +6
          America with you? Whose Crimea?
          1. Evil Booth
            Evil Booth 24 December 2020 10: 00
            -2
            with you) the local bot with + and - does not know how to catch your cap. fellow
  3. Vladimir_2U
    Vladimir_2U 24 December 2020 05: 35
    +12
    Interesting article but dark. Although it is better to be scared and prepare for the worst than to soar and all the foolishness to the ground! Thanks to the author for the article!
    The word "mission" here just hurts the eye. The senseless slavish translation of the English word mission (task) has penetrated the domestic regulatory documents
    And what do you want, the top officials of the state insert any squalor like a "road map", and then the managers "from the MO".
  4. mark1
    mark1 24 December 2020 06: 11
    +6
    Good article, for me everything is clear and understandable.
    1. Evil Booth
      Evil Booth 24 December 2020 07: 46
      -16%
      And explain to me how something is done in general with such horror, all the more so everything is done. reminds 2 topics in one 3 million views and 100 likes and 000 comments, they say, the mask does not allow oxygen to pass through and does not release CO30, and in the second, everything is the same only the mask passes everything completely including viruses, which is billions of times more. Both have strictly the same type of kament. at the same time, in reality, the masks have been responsible for billions of Muslims and others for centuries, not to mention doctors and workers and others. but everything passes / delays everything. finally everything is clear wassat and it is possible to clarify zircon real or photoshop?
      1. Minato2020
        Minato2020 25 December 2020 06: 27
        0
        Quote: Evil Booth

        ... the mask does not allow oxygen to pass through and does not release CO2, and in the second, everything is the same, only the mask allows everything to pass through completely, including viruses, which is billions of times more. Both are strictly the same kind of comments.
        At the same time, in reality, masks have been worn for centuries by billions of Muslims and others, not to mention doctors and workers and others. But everything passes / delays everything.


        By the way, billions of Muslims did not wear masks, and Muslim women did not wear masks, unless only hijab and / or burqa.
        Doctors mostly wore masks during surgical operations, now masks are also mandatory in dentistry.

        There are such inexpensive devices for the determination of oxygen and carbon dioxide in the air on sale on E-bay.
        A tube is taken from it and placed under the mask and the device turns on.
        One device shows under the mask a reduced oxygen content, namely 17% oxygen at a rate of 21% everywhere on the planet.
        Another device shows an increased content of carbon dioxide in the air under the mask - it is 2-3 times higher than the normal level.
        It's not fatal, you just don't have to wear a mask for a long time.
      2. victor50
        victor50 27 December 2020 14: 27
        0
        Quote: Evil Booth
        and explain to me how something is done in general with such horror, all the more so everything is done. reminds 2 topics in one 3 million views and 100 likes and 000 comments, they say, the mask does not let oxygen through and does not release CO30, and in the second, everything is the same, only the mask passes everything completely including viruses, which is billions of times more. Both have strictly the same type of kament. at the same time, in reality, the masks have been responsible for billions of Muslims and others for centuries, not to mention doctors and workers and others. but everything passes / delays everything. finally everything is clear and it can be clarified zircon real or photoshop?

        What can I explain to you ?! Talk to your primary school teachers. Do you think THAT can be read ?!
        1. Evil Booth
          Evil Booth 27 December 2020 14: 29
          -2
          we have here the generalist all in beautiful phrases writes that the commander-in-chief liar aug stealth is a fool to shoot down f18 nizya by no means at all .. I suppose he is crazy, well, the maximum of a trolley comrade Snowden will not let you lie there are such LOT. but about the style of presentation .. in my opinion, I have all the rules, but HE is that .. with a cuckoo clock and not vice versa. give a reference?

          Yes, willow, take the heroic work to explain why in one topic strictly the mask does not throw gas in another, it strictly passes such huge viruses, but in reality, in the United States, it dies 3 times more per day than in Japan per year, although the population is 3 times less and the population density is 3 times higher times. and why the Japanese wear masks and the Americans don't. Of course, you will convince this to avoid snwoa and again, but I like to sneeze at these problems .. although I am a little famous in narrow circles for my ability to influence. drinks
  5. Rurikovich
    Rurikovich 24 December 2020 07: 01
    +13
    A definite plus! yes smile smile
    I will only say that one cannot do without an adequate, thinking and, oddly enough, patriotic (a person completely devoted to his work) at the top, capable of pushing through the barricades of indifference, corruption, hypocrisy, etc., things necessary for the defense industry. Ah, and also capable of understanding the advice of the surrounding advisers, capable of taking the necessary and correct from the mass of information ...

    But this either does not exist, or is encrypted ...
    And it seems to me that it is worth changing the system, returning from wild capitalism to socialism, only with work on mistakes, and people will again begin to create their civilization with faith in a bright future winked Am I dreaming? what
    smile smile smile
    1. Old tanker
      Old tanker 24 December 2020 09: 18
      -1
      Only where
      And it seems to me that it is worth changing the system, returning from wild capitalism to socialism, only with work on mistakes, and people will again begin to create their own civilization with faith in a bright future winked Have I been dreaming ??? what


      But where can we get the new Stalin for this?
    2. Old tanker
      Old tanker 24 December 2020 09: 19
      0
      Only where
      And it seems to me that it is worth changing the system, returning from wild capitalism to socialism, only with work on mistakes, and people will again begin to create their own civilization with faith in a bright future winked Have I been dreaming ??? what


      But where can we get the new Stalin for this?
      1. prior
        prior 24 December 2020 11: 55
        +2
        Is anyone looking for him ?!
        Now is the time for grabbers, bribes and other sycophants.
        They don't need Stalin.
      2. Minato2020
        Minato2020 25 December 2020 06: 31
        0
        Quote: Old Tankman

        But where can we get the new Stalin for this?


        Can we wait for Stalin to read his works?
        For example, "Economic Problems of Socialism in the USSR" - his book, published at the end of 1952, is entirely on the topic of socialism.
        1. Old tanker
          Old tanker 25 December 2020 06: 58
          0
          You can read anything you want.
          But who will carry out these reforms, and even in such a short time?
          Reading is not working.
  6. voronin
    voronin 24 December 2020 07: 02
    +18
    Thanks to the author hi Continues to uncover problems. It would be great if changes for the better started at the top.
    1. Minato2020
      Minato2020 25 December 2020 06: 33
      0
      Quote: voronin

      It would be great if changes for the better started at the top.


      As soon as the thunder breaks out, the changes will begin.
  7. evgen1221
    evgen1221 24 December 2020 07: 22
    +5
    Good article! This is what happens if you know and see the problem from the inside and live, as it were, with and with this problem. A corral with education, training, the ideology of a hapka and blind copying literally of Western trends without taking into account their own characteristics leads only to fashionable breakthroughs with a negative vector. This is what the cry from KVN-Party leads in practice, let me steer! (((
  8. parusnik
    parusnik 24 December 2020 07: 23
    +4
    The system needs to be changed, and as quickly as possible.
    ... Who can argue.
  9. Bez 310
    Bez 310 24 December 2020 07: 32
    -2
    Probably the author wrote about very important things,
    most likely, such an unsightly environment
    really reigns in this area, but it hurts
    a specific topic to seriously discuss
    on this resource.
    1. timokhin-aa
      24 December 2020 12: 26
      +11
      There is nowhere else, this cannot be printed in other publications. Even so.
      1. Bez 310
        Bez 310 24 December 2020 13: 40
        +1
        Quote: timokhin-aa
        Nowhere else

        Well, if only for this reason ...
  10. Catfish
    Catfish 24 December 2020 08: 32
    +9
    Thanks to the author for the second excellent article, although it does not add cheerfulness and optimism. Well, we know where we live and we will continue to live, although it constantly comes out "we wanted the best, but it turned out as always." request
    The previous article on this topic was quickly removed, I wonder if this one will live until the evening?

    And I watched the film "Pentagon Wars" on the advice of the author, if someone has not seen it, I recommend it.
  11. sergo1914
    sergo1914 24 December 2020 08: 37
    0
    Come on. Listen to a military comrade when he is trying to tell the TK in a simple but understandable language. Periodically contradicting what is written in the piece of paper. All comedians are resting. Both naval and land. Fate did not reduce the pilots.
  12. Boris55
    Boris55 24 December 2020 08: 58
    -7
    Article on VO: "What weapons will the Russian Armed Forces replenish in 2020: preliminary list" https://topwar.ru/166533-kakimi-vooruzhenijami-popolnjatsja-vs-rossii-v-2020-godu.html
    Quest completed on 98%

    1. Evil Booth
      Evil Booth 24 December 2020 10: 01
      -5
      here's to you for the truth of the minuses that they hung and for everything that was lost piece-rate for huskies they pay. hope for 91 years. smile smile
    2. Petrix
      Petrix 25 December 2020 11: 15
      +1
      Actually, the article is not about quantity, but about quality.
    3. Evil Booth
      Evil Booth 25 December 2020 21: 56
      +1
      about! as I knew minus 7 for you and me, for a short list of a dozen of them, half a dozen failed and, at the same time, the largest projects minus 32. the children there are clearly underpaid and they are paid piece by piece, but at tariffs) fellow
  13. the same doctor
    the same doctor 24 December 2020 09: 00
    0
    Just imagine: you come to the service, they charge you for diagnostics over and over again, report faults, but nothing is repaired. Well, why do I need this diagnostics? And they impose it ...
    .
    This is how ROC in the defense industry and, especially, in astronautics. Time after time they invent what has already been invented, they receive money for all new missiles, but they do not build anything real.
    .
    Shoigu's roar is a cry of despair. So, Sergei Kuzhugetovich, you have to work. Understand, control, hold meetings at the expense of every penny ... then you wouldn't have to growl. There is no mind of your own - hire trusted experts ... You and Rogozin yourself are to blame - you were too lazy to run things up.
    1. Boris55
      Boris55 24 December 2020 09: 12
      -2
      Quote: also a doctor
      So, Sergei Kuzhugetovich, he has to work.

      Even the shaman Kuzhugetovich is not capable of everything, because:

      " State policy and governance in a crowd- "elite" society is an agreement reached on the capabilities of various clan-corporate groupings to use the state structure and system to achieve their narrowly corporate goals".

      There are certain inter-clan agreements that cannot be violated (otherwise anarchy, chaos and the death of the state). There are government posts that are divided between the clans and the person (Rogozin) in this post can only be removed by the clan that appointed him.

      At the moment, an optimal inter-clan balance has been achieved. Each clan has its own idea of ​​what Russia should be: some - independent, others - a vassal of the strong. Slaves in the soul will never be free.
    2. Mikhail3
      Mikhail3 24 December 2020 09: 25
      +5
      For trying to figure it out, Kuzhugetovich will be slapped instantly. There is SUCH money ...
      1. Boris55
        Boris55 24 December 2020 09: 52
        -3
        Whom they could have been moved (the clan of the regionals - the Shaimiev), and those who were simply thrown out (the clan of Moscow - the Luzhkov). We need to negotiate with the rest.

        ps
        Clan representatives in power are the leaders of all parties. The Presidential Council is a body where representatives of different clans can solve inter-clan problems.
  14. Mikhail3
    Mikhail3 24 December 2020 09: 22
    0
    The disruptions of the ROC in the Ministry of Defense took on an avalanche character. Only the reason for this is not so much in the R&D (development work) themselves as the stage of creating weapons and military equipment (AME), as in the insanity of the existing R&D system
    That's really not true! A very slim and incredibly effective system. Of course, it does not provide for any R&D at all, but about marasmus - it is unfair.
  15. tank64rus
    tank64rus 24 December 2020 09: 48
    +1
    First of all, thanks to the author for the article. Second, there are other problems. Questions of inventions and their patenting. Intellectual property is very expensive property. Our laws are written in such a way that the inventor has no right not to his invention. All this led to that. that the Russian Federation has now rolled back in the number of patents far down in comparison with the United States and especially with China. But even after, on the issue of the use and implementation of the Russian Federation, this is up to 3% of patents, and in China 60-70%. Comments are superfluous. In military science, we have been smashing it since the 90s, Serdyukov also did his best at the behest of American "curators and partners." Now there is simply no one to scientifically substantiate and come to a common opinion on the purpose, tasks, etc. And the introduced American system, let the production do it, and we decide whether or not it does not work for us. This is partly where the huge problems described by the author in the article come from.
    1. Boris55
      Boris55 24 December 2020 10: 01
      -1
      Quote: tank64rus
      The Russian Federation has now rolled back far down in the number of patents

      Patents are down, and weapons are the best in the world.

      All patent offices in the world are a vacuum cleaner, sucking all the advanced inventions in different countries and passing them on for the benefit of one country.

      As an example. Do you think that the light bulb is an invention of Edison or Ladygin?
      1. tank64rus
        tank64rus 24 December 2020 12: 44
        0
        The example of China does not impress you. Even the speaker of the Federation Council proposed to change the law on inventions based on the use of Chinese. In some countries, income from intellectual property is up to 3% of GDP.
  16. ycuce234-san
    ycuce234-san 24 December 2020 09: 58
    0
    single document on pricing


    For non-unique mass products and components, you need to start purchasing it at the prices at which it is purchased in foreign markets, gradually expanding the range of acquisitions from more to less in demand. Then there will be no such problems with its constituent components. Well, prioritize the purchase of exported products over those that do not have an export market. The rest will gradually improve in quality, as production specialists and managers move from one industry to another, technologies and products are flowing, etc.
    1. Mikhail3
      Mikhail3 24 December 2020 10: 56
      0
      Pricing for products that are not produced anywhere in the world cannot be calculated from marketing textbooks focused on trading capitalist junk. This rubber ducks can be bought like that. Let me remind you that there is NO single real economic theory in the world, and even more so, satisfactory recommendations on economic practice. All materials on this topic are attempts to destroy competitors and slow down (ideally interrupt) economic growth for everyone except himself. All these "economists" and their "works" are directed and paid for by completely specific owners who pursue different goals, but never want you to understand anything about economics. At least a little finger. Excuse me.
      Look. On the basis of what to form a price for C 500? What to buy Patriots? Trying (almost unsuccessfully) to do the same work as the C 500, these units are assembled from completely different components, with completely different hands, etc. etc. The price will in no way become reasonable, and either the budget or the manufacturer will not stand it.
      In order to pay for military products, it is necessary to conduct research based on the real cost of work, materials, army and political needs ... In a country where the economy is "developed" by HSE students, all this is absolutely unrealistic, impossible. Yearning...
      1. An64
        An64 24 December 2020 11: 24
        0
        As a matter of fact, the pricing for the MP is understandable - you sum up the cost of all the parts, plus the labor intensity, plus the profitability of 20%, plus insurance payments, plus, plus, plus ... in the end you get the cost of the sample. But the next one will be more expensive, not cheaper, which would be logical, because all the parts have risen in price ... The problem, it seems to me, is in the assessment of mental work - the designer sits on a salary that little depends on the presence of breakthrough ideas in his head.
        1. Mikhail3
          Mikhail3 24 December 2020 11: 38
          +3
          Quote: An64
          summing up the cost of all the details,

          )) And what is this cost? What are the "details"? They are unique. Nowhere in the world does anyone do such. Well these are military products, not condoms. will have to do research on each screw. Can you imagine how many "details" are in the rocket? And in her launcher? The man outlined the modern methods for us.
          In the world, 60 to 80% of absolutely useless rubbish is produced, suitable only for extracting money from the consumer using various methods of psychology. And everything, absolutely all methods of calculating the cost are designed to work with mutually exchangeable garbage.
          In order to realistically assess the cost of producing real, non-illusory products, a fundamentally different economic thinking is needed. And production and financial relations should be built in a fundamentally different way. Otherwise, you get one continuous failure, instead of work then.
          Alas, it is impossible to "pull up" capitalism a little. It has been pulled up with all its might for hundreds of years. And the resource of the suspenders has already been exhausted. The transition to this system in our country was due to the fact that the Soviet elite degenerated in record time. Didn't delay the management of complex processes. And I found a way out (as it seemed to them, geniuses) - to switch to capitalism, where "the market will decide everything."
          And capitalism requires a thousand times more intelligence from its masters! Very bad tuning, which cannot be improved, and they are steered by hand in every little detail, while real geniuses are needed for steering. And then these geniuses flog the shoals all the time, and to fix them it is necessary to rob the neighbors, gut the near and far. The pace of the robbery was a little slower - a crisis. Which does not improve the economy (this is nonsense) but worsens it.
          So our Soviet legacy was wasted for many years. But it was over. We must really manage the economy. They ran. And suddenly .... The situation is just hell. The methods that were used to "manage the economy" turned out to be not for management, but for the convenience of plundering. All this is not good for managing anything. And you need to know so much, and to be able to do even more. Nightmare...
  17. alex-defensor
    alex-defensor 24 December 2020 10: 44
    -4
    The site topwat.ru has become gloomy ... and it's not only the article, but also the commentators.
    Who is the author of the article? Where did he get such "knowledge". For 30 years I have been listening to all-propals predicting imminent collapse ... right tomorrow.
    But the caravan is coming!
    1. faiver
      faiver 24 December 2020 11: 16
      +2
      But the caravan is coming!
      - where to? in a circle for a carrot on a fishing rod?
    2. Mikhail3
      Mikhail3 24 December 2020 12: 01
      +2
      The situation is "gloomy". Notice there are almost no emotionally charged screams. Here they do not like such screamers) Basically, people retell what actually happened and share their thoughts, giving arguments. The caravan is moving, but that legs began to drag, the food ends altogether. In the USSR they have not prepared enough. And the caravan men cannot find a new one ...
    3. timokhin-aa
      24 December 2020 12: 29
      +4
      Who is the author of the article? Where did he get such "knowledge"?


      The author works in this system, hence the cognition.
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 24 December 2020 20: 47
        0
        Rather, he worked.
        1. timokhin-aa
          25 December 2020 01: 10
          +1
          Yes, the last task was closed before the "Army-2020". It can be said that it works, quite.
        2. 2534M
          2534M 15 February 2021 14: 10
          -1
          Quote: Vadim237
          Rather, he worked.

          This is YOU grandmother at the entrance whispered? lol
  18. iouris
    iouris 24 December 2020 12: 02
    -3
    Another "Lament of Yaroslavna". There is no one to ask: everyone has immunity.
  19. bk316
    bk316 24 December 2020 12: 23
    -3
    You will forgive Maxim, he mastered only the conclusions, after vaccination he feels appropriate laughing
    Well, no wonder, as before, there was basically one change - there was more chaos.
    One thing I do not understand, why your proposals lying on the surface NOBODY seeks at close range.
    I never entered large offices, but at the intermediate level, such things always surprised me.

    For Lexus, pessimists, etc. note
    Despite all these difficulties, we have real successes and achievements in the creation of weapons and military equipment. And they need to be appreciated and respected.

    Respect but this word seems unfamiliar to you. Actually, this is understandable, the more a person has done in life, the better he understands the complexity of tasks, the more he appreciates and respects those who do something, on the contrary ...
  20. SID
    SID 24 December 2020 13: 15
    0
    Author: "It would be correct to allow deviations" authorized "by the customer ... in 5-6 years there will be reliable grounds for ... the introduction of already worked out new normative documents ...

    This work cannot be done "only by the Ministry of Defense". This is a complex and painstaking interdepartmental work that can only be led by the military-industrial complex (Military-Industrial Commission). "


    How do you see the mechanism itself? Will the military-industrial complex organize a specialized body? Whom to involve in the direct analysis of the current situation, current affairs? Who will directly form the "policy" and will make the decision? Are the military personnel in direct work again? Or who to pull from the military-industrial complex, or from science?
    1. Mikhail3
      Mikhail3 24 December 2020 14: 06
      0
      It doesn't matter at all. First you need to understand who will guard, protect and control the "controlling body". Why is Kuzhugetovich shouting that he will not give money for R&D? Does he not understand that the military industry is in dire need of science? To put it mildly, our Minister of War is not a stupid person, and he knows such things. Why then "I will not give"? And the fact that all the money for R&D, every penny, will be taken out of the country according to decades of proven schemes. They will also raise the bonus - they will push a little more secret information. Well, as we are used to.
      While Kuzhugetovich is a little bit off the edge, he is not touched. But if he tries to close these "R&D" everywhere ... The whole system, the whole "head" is fed from this. Buys palaces, other little things. Can you imagine how many and what people will feel not only a reduction in income, but also some fear - today they cut off their usual money, and tomorrow what - an investigation? Questions, where did hundreds of billions go for decades?
      Who exactly and how will reflect the storm, the star raid from everywhere, and, above all, from the very heights of power? Who will these heroes be? Somehow nobody can be seen yet. Completely different interactions are visible. And all this will not be limited to mass shooting. Shooting is not that level. No, the impact on "extra" initiatives has also been worked out for decades. Where are all sorts of "truth-lovers" who are rooting for the state? There are no others, but those are far away. And everything is as quiet as in a cemetery.
      The mechanism is needed oh how big, and work in the direction of military R&D is far from the main thing ...
      1. SID
        SID 25 December 2020 15: 28
        0
        It doesn't matter at all. ...

        belay ...

        The mechanism is needed oh how big, and work in the direction of military R&D is far from the main thing ...

        The issue of, let's say, logistical support for the operation of this "mechanism" is the business of the competent authorities. They are quite capable of ensuring this, given the proper, let's say, amicable inspiration from Sergei Kozhugetovich, Alexander Vasilyevich, Valentina Ivanovna, Mikhail Vladimirovich, Vladimir Vladimirovich, and other companions ...
        However, this is a matter of a different order. In this case, the question of the mechanism is being discussed. I see no reason to "spread along the tree" political scientists here. hi
        1. Mikhail3
          Mikhail3 25 December 2020 16: 28
          0
          No, they are not able to. They could have provided. This is the problem underlying the worldview of people. Many clever people from the West came to the USSR. Do you know what they mostly admired? By seeing a lot of people working WITHOUT PERSONAL BENEFITS. The Western, capitalist model does not provide an opportunity to work this way.
          You just won't find people for that. Therefore, all Western projects are “applied to meanness”. That is, they are obliged to take into account the fact that its participants MUST get involved, succumb to lust, envy and other human abominations. Since our mentality tells us to learn everything in a real way, we are ahead of the rest of the planet. Whatever branch of the economy you take, nothing really works. Everyone is just a money pump, but they cannot develop - there is no one and most importantly there is no need.
          The problem is precisely this, and not what the next bureaucratic delights and other "mechanisms" are called. Be mechanized, and no R&D will work. Westerners have adapted to their way of life. And here our brilliant leaders demand to work as in the USSR, and live under a bench while they, gods and geniuses, celebrate life. There will be no R&D.
  21. Dmitry V.
    Dmitry V. 24 December 2020 13: 42
    0
    So it was in the USSR:
    We read Reshetnikov VV when he was commander YES

    The tests of the Tu-22M long-range bomber were already underway, but the car did not work out. Originally conceived as a modification of the supersonic Tu-22 already in service, it absorbed more and more new design solutions and in the end, having acquired a variable geometry of the wings, more powerful engines, a fundamentally different layout of cabins and power plants, not to mention about serious alterations of the weapons system, appeared as a completely new type of aircraft, although it still bore the old title according to the original concept, except perhaps with the strapped letter M. And so it stayed with her forever.

    Quite naturally, with such "additions" the car became noticeably heavier in comparison with the initially set weight, and even new, more powerful engines could not pull it up to double the speed of sound, not to mention the fact that it lacked not only 1800 meters of the runway, as was due to the tactical and technical requirements, but also our standard 2500.
    Then they put, in salvation, even stronger engines - with twenty-ton thrust. But during this time, the weight has grown, not giving the car the expected agility.
    This eternal race of weights and thrust plunged into the inescapable suffering of all aircraft designers. But what could the chief designer Dmitry Sergeevich Markov, the creator, by the way, of such famous and durable machines as "R-5", "Tu-16", "Tu-22", have done, if all the "stuffing" is weapons, radio engineering, aircraft equipment, even ordinary wiring, was many times higher than the estimated weight. And the metal itself was too heavy and rather weak. To keep such a mass, instead of light units and structures, powerful blocks were mounted, leaving the car with a minimum margin of safety.
    ...
    And so it was, the young beauty did not give more than one thousand six hundred, but they expected two four hundred from her.
    ...
    Apparently, out of a desire to strengthen my impression of being summoned to the Central Committee and to demonstrate the "highest" support for their demands, at some point in our conversation, Serbin suddenly picked up the direct telephone to Ustinov and in such a familiar tone, so that I would not be mistaken about the nature of their relationship, at first started some kind of abstract conversation, and then, as if casually, wedged in that, they say, I have an audience here with the commander of the Long-Range Aviation, who does not want to take ready-made aircraft. “But I think he will agree,” he rounded off the demo conversation. [484]

    I left him, crushed by a monstrous force, against which nothing in the world can resist - neither logic, nor common sense, nor the naked evidence of facts.
    I grabbed my head: what to do?
    A dozen ships that can neither bomb nor launch rockets is no joke. Where are they?
    ... Meanwhile, the aircraft plant, despite the incompleteness of the design, slowly riveted the very machines of the first two modifications that did not fit into the technical requirements, filled the factory parking lots with them and periodically rolled them back into the shops for the next, one after another, improvements.
    The vehicles were completely "raw" and as combat systems they were not capable of anything at all. But such general evidence did not bother high officials from the military-industrial commission of the Council of Ministers and industrial structures of the Party Central Committee. From there, more and more often calls were heard on closed phones, and already familiar voices, either persuading or demanding to take the cars into operation, became more and more assertive. [482] I fought back as best I could, referring to the complete unsuitability of these products for combat use and, of course, to the directives of the same Central Committee, which required the adoption of only fully tested and brought to the specified conditions military equipment.
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 24 December 2020 20: 14
      +2
      Quote: Dmitry Vladimirovich
      So it was in the USSR:
      We read Reshetnikov VV when he was commander YES

      The relationship between the industry and the Air Force can be judged at least by the fact that the aviation industry managed to serially produce and hand over aircraft that were not adopted by the Air Force. And hundreds. sad
  22. Dmitry V.
    Dmitry V. 24 December 2020 13: 44
    0
    Well, the Tu-22M2 did not like Reshetnikov:
    On the way, another modification appeared, which was destined, having become a large series, to get into service with the regiments, although it was not the last.

    It was the same Backfire that sparked major public military-diplomatic disputes with the Americans, who classified it as an intercontinental strategic bombers. [486] But, unfortunately, he was not. No matter how we hid him from the encroachments of foreign intelligence services, he immediately "lit up", was seized and sprawled, driving the philistine army into awe, on the magazine covers of the entire bourgeois world. Yes, only his "captors" involuntarily and grossly fell into error: although he was "in the body" and with heavy missiles on the pylons he looked very impressive, but higher than a long-range bomber of the European range, if without refueling, he was not allowed to reach. Similar in purpose and combat characteristics, the American bomber "FB-111" was slightly inferior to the "Backfire" only in flight range, but our thoroughbred beauty, carrying tons of excess iron, weighed twice as heavy as its overseas antipode.
  23. Artunis
    Artunis 24 December 2020 14: 02
    +1
    Sadness however! When I was studying at my institute, a lady from the State Planning Commission - Doctor of Economics, came to us to give lectures on economics (a technical and space-related university). Unfortunately, I don’t remember my full name. Well, economics in those Soviet universities - you yourself understand the relationship to this discipline, along with scientific communism, etc. BUT, having gone to the lecture for "tick", most of the studios just went nuts from the information that this lady dumped on us! She told us a lot of interesting things, but in this context, here's what's on the topic - when the states began to hopelessly lag behind the USSR in the space race due to the complete mess in the industry (it was not clear who was responsible for what, who could produce various units for spacecraft, in which terms and at what prices and in general how to bring all these tasks together), there was one smart man who proposed to apply the planning principle used in the USSR. No sooner said than done, even our economists were invited! And as a result, a breakthrough in the moon race in just a few years, leaving us behind. In my opinion, this is very applicable to this situation here and now.
  24. Dmitry V.
    Dmitry V. 24 December 2020 14: 08
    +1
    And one more very remarkable story about vtyuhivanie obsolete electronic warfare stations on the Tu-95 from Reshetnikov VV
    The first visitors from the Air Force armament service, who invited me to sign a document recommending that a new radio-technical station of the aircraft defense system be adopted, pretty much alerted... They knew perfectly well that this question was new to me, unfamiliar, and was that why they chose such a "convenient moment" for its haste conclusion? Didn't add to my confidence in the merits of the proposed system and familiarity with technical documents, as the new medals of the laureates of the State Prize, just received by my opponents for the creation of this particular station, did not convince of its blamelessness... The feeling is not pleasant, if not idiotic. From you, the new chief, whom they are still looking at, they are expecting a commander's decision, and you mumble because you do not understand everything. And those who are waiting, it turns out, understand everything, but secretly they really don't want me to understand. The station also turned out to be a "pig in a poke" for engineers - specialists of the Long-Range Aviation Administration. [467] It was they who thought to ask our VEVES Research Institute of Molotkov ... to give their opinion on the whole problem of the upcoming re-equipment of aircraft. To our surprise, such a document had already been drawn up, but since it contained disappointing conclusions, the “stakeholders” squeezed it.

    It turns out that the station for jamming enemy aircraft radar sights was assigned to industrialists ten years ago. The developers enthusiastically seized on this topic, but, spitting on all the deadlines, they dragged on as best they could. The work paid well, and nothing else mattered to them. It is not for nothing that such protracted work, of which a great many accumulated in the industrial ministries, were quite generally accepted and routinely called "feeding troughs." Who just stuck to them!

    The station was eventually born, and since its characteristics, in general, as it turned out, corresponded to those that were set ten years ago., The Ministry of Radio Industry decided that it had coped with the task and found it possible to present the developers, and at the same time some of the customers from the Air Force weapons service, who did not really bother them, to state awards. Wasting no time, an order was placed at the factories for the serial production of several hundred newborn stations, and soon their stream began to look for their addresses. [470]
    ...
    while the "creative process" was going on, in all NATO countries a whole generation of fighter aircraft has changed, and at the same time, as usual, their onboard detection and aiming systems have been updated, the radiation power of which was completely irresistible for our outdated "novelty" even before the birth.
    ...
    But the armed men, despite the obviousness of the facts, pressed on. A "tug of war" was started, which threatened to develop into a major scandal. Paid with multimillion-dollar sums of money, the flow of brand new and completely unusable stations that rushed from the plant could no longer be stopped. [477]

    Not seeing any success in the confrontation, my new opponent bravely, without fear of consequences, connected to his side PS Kutakhov, who had just taken over as Air Force Commander-in-Chief. The latter, gaining a young commander-in-chief, greeted me stormily and, without giving a word to utter, demanded immediately, without talking, to start finalizing the aircraft, but, stumbling upon an institute conclusion, the existence of which I did not suspect, but with which I now did not part, slowly limp , began to read. On the last page I found it harsh as a sentence the conclusion that when the proposed jamming station was installed instead of the dismantled aft artillery installation, the defensive capabilities of the aircraft ... would decrease by one and a half times. Here are the ones on! There was something to think about. A wasteful miscalculation of the armaments service dragged the commander-in-chief into a dead end. Hesitating between two dangerous decisions - to bet or not to bet - he could not choose either of them.
    - Decide for yourself, - he gloomily threw to us.
    Alexander Nikolaevich, not afraid of sin, began to push with renewed vigor, but seeing my stubbornness, he once again pulled me to the commander-in-chief.
    - Okay, - said the commander-in-chief, this time turning to me, - decide for yourself.
    Doubts did not torment me. Alexander Nikolaevich turned sour finally.
    - What to do? He asked desperately. - What if these stations are handed over to warehouses? [478]
    - Anywhere. Not on planes, ”I replied.
    Where this unfortunate product was hidden, I did not know.

    About 15 years have passed. For a long time, Alexander Nikolaevich was carefully transferred to a less troublesome job, the commander-in-chief, having managed to celebrate his XNUMXth birthday, died in the same year, and there were changes in other structures of the leadership of the Air Force. And then one day, at the beginning of the next meeting of the Military Council, A.N. Efimov, the new commander-in-chief entered the hall with quick steps and excitedly, and, without sitting down at the table, blurted out in a harsh patter:

    Long-term deposits of hundreds of jamming stations for long-range aircraft were found in warehouses in their original packaging. Who did it? He asked menacingly.

    In dead silence I got up and briefly outlined the essence of that now almost forgotten story. The commander-in-chief immediately realized that everything was irrevocably a thing of the past and he would not be able to ask anyone for it, just as he could not have done it before. He slapped the folder with force on the table, sat down and proceeded to the next question.

    So in the USSR, "feeding troughs" were created with a certain efficiency - this is not an invention of the Russian Federation, this is a "legacy".
  25. Dmitry V.
    Dmitry V. 24 December 2020 14: 33
    +2
    All this is “for the sake of the Motherland”: “the enemy is insidious”, “surrounds” ... Accordingly, those who tried to stop this sawing off and undermining the combat capability of the RF Armed Forces are “undoubtedly enemies of the Motherland” (and they need to “carefully consider the issue”)


    It’s not up to that - there are not enough political opponents to poison, there are not enough competent "stompers", they dishonor grandfather all over the country, all over the world.
  26. Aleks2000
    Aleks2000 24 December 2020 15: 17
    +1
    By the way, according to the attached photos, Americans understand the problem and even manage to apply it in films and comedies
    I saw - and remembered several such films

    In our country, unbridled optimism reigns on hurray-media ...
  27. Radikal
    Radikal 24 December 2020 16: 01
    +3
    In the section of the article - "What is needed for" correct "and successful OCD? points 4,5,7 I would do 1,2 and 3, respectively. Moreover, in paragraph 4, the word "capable" I would replace with - "professional". Capable is to a psychiatrist, notary, or to court, but professional is a category of a completely different order. sad
  28. Old26
    Old26 24 December 2020 16: 49
    0
    wrote the former head of the torpedo operation department of the Research Institute of Weapons of the Navy L.B. Bozin:

    EMNIP is not L.B. Bozin, and L.M. Bozin (Larion Mikhailovich). But this is so, by the way
  29. businessv
    businessv 24 December 2020 17: 49
    +2
    Huge funds from the state budget are drowning in the bureaucratic quagmire, not turning into pieces of smart weapons and military equipment that Russia needs so much today.
    Many thanks to the author for a very interesting and relevant article! Maxim, I read it with great interest! And the question immediately arises: if this is happening in the military-industrial complex, then what is happening in other industries ?!
  30. ccsr
    ccsr 24 December 2020 18: 27
    +4
    Author:
    Maxim Klimov
    And don't even dream, there won't be any OCD

    "And don't even dream, there won't be any OCDs!"

    This phrase was said in a harsh and emotional form by the Minister of Defense of the Russian Federation S.G. Shoigu visiting the Amur shipyard in a conversation with the President of the USC on the order of new corvettes for the Pacific Fleet.

    It is strange that the article was written without Timokhin - for some reason I thought that they had cooked up this huge article for a couple, where half-truths and half-lies are intertwined, and once again proves that Klimov never served in the ordering department of the Ministry of Defense, and his ideas about developments were greatly distorted by him an excited brain.
    As for Shoigu's statement, any armed man, even from this phrase, understood that the industry was most likely trying to push through an order for corvettes, for which money was not originally planned in the weapons program. So he got mad, realizing that the industry needs to knock out money, and Shoigu has a headache how to distribute it according to the types and types of the armed forces. Therefore, all the far-reaching conclusions of the author of the article must be considered through a magnifying glass of common sense and the experience of those who themselves have cooked in this kitchen. And Klimov was not even close to this kitchen - this is understandable to me, judging by his emotional, but illiterate statements.
    The minister is understandable. The breakdowns of the ROC in the Ministry of Defense took on an avalanche-like character. Only the reason for this is not so much in the R&D (development work) themselves as the stage of creating weapons and military equipment (AME), but in the insanity of the existing R&D system (which was partially discussed in the last article).

    This is a lie, because I have completely different information, and those who are now engaged in weapons and military equipment note that much more has been done in the past five to seven years than in all the years since the collapse of the USSR. And they give money, and new developments appear, moreover in high-tech areas. Well, what was given to the navy with their projects is Klimov still does not want to understand that the concept of building the fleet has changed, and he still lives from the times of Gorshkov.
    By the way, Klimov somehow shyly bypasses research and development, and immediately starts with OCD - I wonder who taught him this approach? And what were the results of the research work, at least in terms of the prospects for such ships and their combat use - but he is modestly silent, apparently nifiga does not know about it.
    I will not further point to the bloopers in this article, but there are many of them, and if someone is very interested in this, it will be possible to discuss it.
    1. businessv
      businessv 24 December 2020 20: 04
      +3
      Quote: ccsr
      those who are now engaged in weapons and military equipment note that much more has been done in the past five to seven years than in all the years since the collapse of the USSR. And they give money, and new developments appear, and in high-tech areas.
      Please tell me, how do they assess the work of our Minister of Defense and his personality in all the events described? Only objectively and without gag, please! smile
      1. ccsr
        ccsr 24 December 2020 20: 10
        +2
        Quote: businessv
        Please tell me, how do they assess the work of our Minister of Defense and his personality in all the events described?

        I have survived several defense ministers in my service, and I will say that this is not the worst, if only because he does not climb to tell career military professionals what they need to do. As for his personality, at least he does not harm military affairs and this is already a big plus, although he, as he was a civilian, remained so.
        Quote: businessv
        Only objectively and without gag please

        And where did you see objectivity - tell me, I even became interested to know where you can find it.
        1. businessv
          businessv 24 December 2020 20: 26
          +3
          Quote: ccsr
          And where did you see objectivity - tell me, I even became interested to know where you can find it.

          In your post, for example, for which many thanks! After all, you expressed a subjective opinion by making an objective assessment of the situevina! This is what I call objectivity. Shoigu is a civilian, a business executive, of which there are few. Moreover, he is a statesman, which in our time and even to look for, how government can be a manager in our time. Thank you for rating! good
          .
          1. ccsr
            ccsr 24 December 2020 20: 44
            +2
            Quote: businessv
            In your post, for example, for which many thanks!

            Do not exaggerate my merits - I just speak as a mature person with a lot of life experience and try to be objective, which is often lacking for those who make loud statements here. If you perceived my idea as you wrote it, then I am glad that my assessments are understandable to different people. I always try to express my views in an accessible language - but this is not always possible.
            1. 2534M
              2534M 15 February 2021 14: 09
              -1
              Quote: ccsr
              my merits - I just speak as a mature person with a lot of life experience and try to be objective

              Monsieur, YOU are just a banal LIAR
              and also a STUPID liar lol
    2. Zaits
      Zaits 25 December 2020 01: 11
      0
      Quote: ccsr
      This is a lie, because I have completely different information, and those who are now engaged in weapons and military equipment note that much more has been done in the past five to seven years than in all the years since the collapse of the USSR. And they give money, and new developments appear, and in high-tech areas.


      If it was just a lie, it would be half the trouble. I would call this a half-truth, fancifully woven from all sorts of stories picked up from the top, and, in principle, does not reflect the real problems and processes taking place in the military-industrial complex. The danger of such a half-truth is that it will sooner lead the solution of real problems into the next bureaucratic jungle than help in any way.

      The main problems, in fact, are not so many. These problems are known, on the whole they are quite painful, but to some extent they are being solved, and there is indeed some progress. Considering that about 80% of the current problems (imkha) are the level of individual enterprises of the military-industrial complex, not everything is as hopeless as it might seem. In any case, there is a clear correlation between the solution of organizational and personnel issues, issues of providing a technical / technological base, etc. at individual enterprises and the results of these enterprises. The same "feat" of the Almaz Central Design Bureau did not grow from scratch. Almaz was actually able to solve a lot of problems typical for the majority of military-industrial complex enterprises. And this was not done in one day. And this is far from an isolated case.
  31. reader65
    reader65 24 December 2020 19: 24
    0
    "How do you, for example, the requirement to install in all domestic robotic systems (which at the same time began to be interpreted as broadly as possible, in order to maximize the coverage of all possible topics by the" new concern ") of an extremely expensive" candy "(in conversation, usually" this "is called a" brick " , although outwardly “this” has nothing to do with it, here is the meaning of the “stone on the neck” of the developers and their products)? "

    Can anyone clarify what this is about?
  32. Virus-free crown
    Virus-free crown 24 December 2020 19: 25
    +2
    Thanks to the author for the picture good drinks :



    I saw her in the Humor section of the Inventor-Rationalizer magazine in the mid-80s, my father wrote it out, he had a lot of certificates for invention and innovation at work, and even a couple of prizes in the amount of 50-100 rubles)))

    40 years have passed ... nothing has changed in this life))))))))))))))) as he said - From the article "In Memory of Herzen" (1912) by V. I. Lenin (1870-1924): "The circle of these revolutionaries is narrow. They are terribly far from the people. But their cause is not lost ..." and so 1: 1)))
  33. dust31
    dust31 24 December 2020 19: 53
    0
    Thank you Maxim. As well as everyone who cares.
  34. flicker
    flicker 24 December 2020 19: 57
    -1
    Well, in general, it was possible to copy and paste more content from the Internet laughing
    ---
    The text was posted at 4:37, and the first comment was 4: 52, i.e. someone managed to read the "information truck" in just 15 minutes. good
    ---
    So I realized that this is "another cry from the patriot of Israel"
    Well what to say?
    Israel is probably better bully
  35. DWG1905
    DWG1905 24 December 2020 22: 35
    +1
    The article is somewhat chaotic, but correct. Everything is written correctly, but too soft. About how we conduct OCD, you can shoot a comedy series for 10 seasons, a series every day. R&D, and especially R&D is yes (R&D is happiness, there are only a lot of papers) it is still a torment, in 2000, when the Soviet GOST 60-90 was rewritten, as I understand it, they laid down a specially not frail corruption component, because some of the questions, and purely bureaucratic without money can not be solved. I'm not talking about the contradictions in different GOSTs, if someone is not too lazy to carefully read GOST 201 and 203 and up to a heap of GOST 210 and 211 and find all the discrepancies. All these jambs in NTD gobble up not only money, they gobble up years. My experience says that this increases the time frame by at least 2 times on average. Until the paperwork is issued for the State Trials, you will not get into and all this muddy lasts for years. Moreover, this has nothing to do with technology. An example is a stack for REO equipment behind the drawing numbers of the component developer, the testers of the RF Ministry of Defense ask, and where are the materials of the pile tests for fastening the stack to the floor of the main product? And why ????? (sopromat allows you to count everything anyway) Okay, what if I reissue the CD behind the drawing numbers of the main product? Then it is not necessary, because the components of the main product developed by the head contractor are tested as part of the main product, this is GOST 203. And so on ad infinitum. According to the ROC plan 4 years, in fact 20 years. My opinion is that ROC should be carried out if the development of new technology with a novelty of at least 80% is really underway. All the rest is modernization, 701 GOST in the teeth and modify according to the bulletin. A 307 GOST if there is a series. Therefore, comrade. Shoigu was so excited about OCD. The smoke comes from the chimney of the locomotive, the firewood is consumed, and the wheels spin in place.
  36. xomaNN
    xomaNN 25 December 2020 00: 05
    +1
    Well, a defense minister without a military education is half the battle, if with his head and deputies - generals-professionals in command. Especially among the broad masses, Shoigu just has authority.

    In Europe, there is a quirk with the appointment of humanities aunts to these positions. love
  37. Volder
    Volder 25 December 2020 11: 58
    -4
    Why not analyze the large-scale corruption and budget cut in the US military-industrial complex? Suffice it to recall the scandals with American submarines, F-35s, Zamvolts, laser weapons ...
    1. Evil Booth
      Evil Booth 25 December 2020 22: 00
      0
      here t14 can’t, then su57 don’t start to do OH the other way around. but he likes here a thousand in the amount of kamenty and you minus 4. and you know why? hand washes laughing and put them on soap at all not without hope at last to kill everyone to the heap to the Apaches.
  38. S. Viktorovich
    S. Viktorovich 26 December 2020 16: 28
    0
    The main problems of conducting R&D are inherent in their organization, that is, in the formation of technical specifications, determination of the contractor and acceptance of the results. The system is built on the formed military-industrial groups united by common interests. This in itself is apparently inevitable, because the entire state is clan-corporate. Something similar happened in the USSR, but with a number of significant differences, namely, there were no such overarching financial interests replacing the real business, and there was real competition among developers, which made it possible to choose the best samples. As a result, the Soviet groundwork has not yet been fully mastered, and the current "novelties" are growing out of it.
    There was something positive about reforms like Serdyukov's, but the transition to quasi-market relations reduced the quality of R&D. Multi-billion dollar R&D became possible, which was closed by the booklet of the report. The so-called "tenders" make it possible, by manipulating the cost of work and tender documentation, to actually appoint the performer needed by this group, and at the exit to accept "what happened." A real competition in this area is possible only by comparing the prototypes created by an independent commission after a draft or, at least, a preliminary design in terms of the main technical parameters.
    Of course, the degradation of scientific and technical schools also affects. There is such a sign for assessing the viability of a developer organization - if there are middle and top managers on it, former military representatives and employees of ordering departments, then this organization cannot do anything new. The brains of the military and officials are arranged differently.
  39. Noun2006
    Noun2006 27 December 2020 02: 22
    +1
    The militant non-professionalism of degraded personnel - whose main task is to cut the budget and selfish interests in an interdepartmental mess - leads to the impossibility of conducting modern R&D and R&D with stupid technical specifications
  40. rusboris
    rusboris 28 December 2020 12: 01
    0
    In the construction of civil aircraft, too, "effective managers" screwed up. How many more will we endure such disgusting with the leading personnel. Reminds of the era of Grigory Rasputin in Russian history. Who is now playing the role of Rasputin in the selection of personnel? The "mole" dug in in the administration of V.V. Putin and crap in our pan. And most importantly, he deliberately shits in the staff of the high-tech industry. On the surface lies the personnel problem, why the FSB does not pull this thread. Cannot continue for 20 years, stupid leapfrog with personnel in high-tech industries, without a "director". There are no such accidents.
  41. Dzafdet
    Dzafdet 30 December 2020 10: 08
    0
    Quote: lexus
    Against the background of Shoigu, the military personnel even remember "stooltkin" with a kind word. Draw conclusions.


    What are you? He, too, like Serdyukov, ordered to strip the tiles from the building of the Ministry of Defense to his dacha? Or did you bring the auntie with the dogs with you? Did you read the article carefully? The industrial bureaucracy was as it is. And breaking the system is difficult, but necessary.
  42. Givi_49
    Givi_49 30 December 2020 10: 43
    0
    The article is "Yaroslavna's cry", too emotional, too detailed, and the conclusions are scanty.
    L. Sobolev "Overhaul", based on modern Russian material.
    In such articles, which are countless, the mention of any surnames is a sign of the author's misunderstanding of the subject of his criticism.
    In 1991, Russia did not move from socialism to capitalism, and Soviet party and state bureaucrats threw off the mask of Soviet ideology and legalized their own power without any ideological (moral) restrictions. Fools - the newly minted cooperative capitalists were delighted, but they were soon put in their place. Before 1961, there was socialism, after 1961 to the present, there was a bureaucracy in the country:
    - the bureaucracy lives by the principle of "sawing and multiplying" and multiplies from the process of cutting the budget (concerns and corporations), advocates stable financing;
    - the bureaucracy always has a reserve of objective reasons (unstable funding);
    - everything will be done through the ass - this is the most beloved trajectory of any process by bureaucrats;
    - the first movement of the soul of any bureaucrat is the invention and announcement of the reason according to which he will not sign you anything;
    - at work - only bosses and their children are also bosses, there is no one to work, since only pensioners can work for the remaining crumbs;
    - you have so many rules, restrictions and approvals that you have no time to think, you constantly persuade someone to sign something, and this someone constantly breaks;
    - the chief designer, like the chief military representative, are the ministers of their own security (they have something to lose, so security is in the foreground). But the military representative has a more difficult task, he thinks about where and by whom he will be retired, and this is a super task, no one will solve it for him. Military envoys are bureaucrats in the square, except for harm to their benefit. (The main harm is that the enterprise does not feel its responsibility under the law: once the military representative signed, then everything is correct). For the first time, you have to meet with them at the proving ground during state tests, the industry will conduct preliminary tests by itself, without them, they divert so much attention to satisfying themselves.
    To minimize bureaucracy, to bring the customer's requirements and the supplier's capabilities as close as possible, small effective private enterprises are needed that specialize (with a license) in the fields of development, calculations, production, testing, technical support, which are managed by professionals and their owners (there is no bureaucracy, money for all workers enough, nothing more effective in development and production has not yet been invented in nature); they do not sign indistinct TK, but they can also take on work "unparalleled". For PSI, PI, please send the military representative, the OTK will show him everything, and the chief accountant has a price structure agreed with the military representative.
  43. Vladimir Chursin
    Vladimir Chursin 3 January 2021 23: 04
    0
    One of the foundations of this is advertising work among the troops. At one time, in the armored vehicle facility, which was adopted in service, the plant managed to * forget * to put a reduction gearbox RK150 / 75 into the engine air start system. After establishing the fact, the plant, at its own expense, increased the thickness of the tubes of the air start system without taking litter to a high level. ChZPT plant is designed to start up with air at a pressure of 75 atm, and 150 atm is supplied. And this equipment has been supplied to the troops for almost 3 decades. Type-starts well - and okay !!!
  44. RAM
    RAM 5 January 2021 10: 59
    0
    Another or extraordinary short story from the series "Everything is lost, the cast is removed, the client leaves", but it is good that the dog barks, rushes about, and the caravan keeps going.
  45. Igor Gennadievich Sivov
    Igor Gennadievich Sivov 21 January 2021 22: 09
    0
    So much effort has been spent on military confrontation! But the virus has come and will begin to mow down both the military and civilians so that no weapons will help! Vaccines will become obsolete faster than their production !!
  46. yaelxninsh
    yaelxninsh 26 January 2021 10: 38
    0
    R&D topics go through the AI ​​assessment stage. It contains all the achievements of science and practice. Having passed this stage, the Ministry of Defense will receive many of the shortcomings of the TTZ. In world practice, from the fund of payment 60% bonus after the end of work.
  47. Vikking1966
    Vikking1966 15 February 2021 15: 55
    +1
    I scrolled to the author and didn't read ... Maxim, how much do you get paid for these libels?
  48. Lew
    Lew 18 February 2021 13: 48
    0
    what do you want, Putin said that Serdyukov coped with the task and raised an army ...
    and what did the authorities do?
    Dispersed all academies !!
    one and all !! dispersed, redeployed, unified cut. Scientific potential is fired and lost, there is no continuity. From military academies and institutes they made courses for commanders of the Red Army, not scientific segments.
    What R&D can we talk about if there is no one to set a task!
    And at the head of the Ministry of Defense is a builder, a political scientist, every time he goes nuts when he is shown any sample of weapons. Maybe it's enough to mock the Army? MO must, must be a military man! All posts must have military personnel. Hlyasitki in the Army are like a saddle on a cow.
  49. yaelxninsh
    yaelxninsh 20 February 2021 08: 55
    0
    AI and digitalization will save a massive, global problem, the most powerful computing capabilities. The state order will immediately reveal 30% overstatement of costs
    1. Anton 17
      Anton 17 2 March 2021 12: 26
      0
      Why do AI people?