"Millions on planes are useless": an expert from South America on the results of the Karabakh war

The Karabakh war showed that robotics penetrated even the remote mountainous region contested between Azerbaijan and Armenia.

Drones managed to create an advantage in the course of hostilities

- writes expert Emmanuel Roose on the pages of the South American press, indicating that the active use of drones, despite heavy losses among them, made it possible to destroy both armored vehicles and anti-aircraft weapons covering them.

This technology is an innovation in the art of war, completely changing tactics on the battlefield. Azerbaijanis were able to take advantage of the simple logic: without aviation it is impossible to win, but instead of spending millions on purchasing an aircraft and training pilots, it is better to purchase remotely controlled UAVs

- the author sums up the results of the confrontation, believing that "spending millions on planes is useless."

In his words, Baku was eventually able to thoroughly prepare for the war by purchasing unmanned systems from Turkey and Israel. However, for the first time they were used by Azerbaijan back in 2016 during the next exacerbation in the theater of operations.

Now they have become regular participants in military operations in the zone of the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict, especially from the Azerbaijani army, which has the superiority of UAVs

- indicates the expert on the pages of the publication Pucará Defensa.

As he believes, the advantages that drones provide are enormous: they cannot carry tons of ammunition, but are extremely effective due to the accuracy of the strike and are difficult to detect with current air defense systems.

Comments

[Hunter 2]

Hurrah! So the opinion of the exPerd from Honduras was finally reached!
And why only Aviation is not needed? We need to go further, we don't need the Army and the Navy ... we only need drones

[Lexus]

And why only Aviation is not needed?

Because she's not there.

[Temples]

Quote: Hunter 2

only need drones

You have the scum.

Only DOWNS are needed.

[vlad106]

Quote: Temples

You have the scum.

Only DOWNS are needed.

There are a lot of them!

In the USSR, the most modern advanced technology was promoted to the Armed Forces ...

[AGGURD]

short and clear)))

[Machito]

Quote: Hunter 2

Hurrah! So the opinion of the exPerd from Honduras was finally reached!
And why only Aviation is not needed? We need to go further, we don't need the Army and the Navy ... we only need drones

It is better to drive in Honduras than to drive Honduras in Kolyma. The expert from South America really amused. In Nagorno-Karabakh, UAVs played such a prominent role only because of the lack of traditional aviation, air defense and electronic warfare systems.

[Finches]

You don't need to be an expert here either. Drones are effective and effective weapons. Aviation is not going anywhere, but the conditions for its use, battle tactics will change taking into account the interaction with drones. This is the future! However, remembering Soviet military drones from the 60s and 70s: Tu-123 "Yastreb", Tu-141 "Strizh" ..., but at least the German FAU-2, you understand that humanity is marking time, spending on all sorts of iPhones. Musk, although Anglo-Saxon, is happy to strive into space in a new way! And there is no one else to remember ... Rogozin, if only!

[voyaka uh]

"that humanity is marking time, spending money on all sorts of iPhones" ///
----
Here you are wrong.
If there were no iPhones, there would be no drones.
Drones have become effective weapons with the development of information technology
and miniaturization of electronics.
In simple terms: an iPhone sits in each drone and controls it.

[voyaka uh]

I try in vain to explain to you that
all the latest communication technologies and electronics are concentrated in modern mobile phones. All the most modern that have just come up with.
A mobile phone is a powerful and flexible computer weighing 100 grams. From it you can control drones, satellites and armies.
"Bloody" do not use even a hundredth of a percent of its capabilities.
And the military uses it. Only it is not in the usual case with a screen.

[OgnennyiKotik]

Quote: voyaka uh

modern mobile phones concentrate all the latest communication technology and electronics.

The competition in the industry and the development of mobile processors led to the fact that Apple brought to the market a laptop with its M1 processor. Which puts on both AMD and Intel blades. Moreover, in the parameters that are needed for machine vision and quasi-AI.
If (more precisely, when) he goes to the military, then he will once again turn the rules of the game. Swarms of UAVs with quasi-AI weighing 200-300 grams will become a full-fledged reality. Rockets that independently drive fighters, etc.
It remains only to write the software, it's a matter of time.

[Finches]

Humanity has to develop a colony on Mars - and we, according to your estimates, have just learned that the TV without a remote control from a smartphone can be turned on ... We are poor! This is our problem!

[Kote Pan Kokhanka]

Quote: Hunter 2

Hurrah! So the opinion of the exPerd from Honduras was finally reached!
And why only Aviation is not needed? We need to go further, we don't need the Army and the Navy ... we only need drones

Well, in principle, they have advanced.
The composition of the ground forces of Honduras:

In 2010, in service were 12 light tanks "Scorpion", more than 57 BRM, more than 118 towed artillery pieces, over 90 mortars, 120 pcs. 84-mm recoilless guns "Carl Gustaf M2", 50 pcs. 106 mm M-40A1 recoilless guns and 48 anti-aircraft artillery mounts [21].

In the 90s, they still had M-3 tanks in service.

[Snail N9]

Well, let's just say the hope for air defense and electronic warfare in its current form, in terms of fighting drones, let's say, is greatly exaggerated. Robots entered the battlefield, and this is already an objective reality. We need absolutely new means of dealing with them, both technical and organizational. Many people still do not understand this and continue to prepare for the wars of the late 20th century. The battlefield has radically changed with the arrival of remotely controlled and robotic technology, and the speed of this change is growing from year to year and it is necessary, not only to prepare for the present moment, but also to calculate the development and predict what will appear in the near future and in the medium term. ... Unfortunately, the old generation, entrenched in our "commanding places" and living with the old "victories" and "merit", is not capable of foreseeing changes in the development of the armed forces, both in technical terms and in terms of management and organization. this is so, to be convinced of this, it is enough to recall the story with "unnecessary" Russia drones, which, allegedly, "will never replace the pilot", read the reports of the Ministry of Defense on "exercises", see how they are carried out in the form of "dashing" cavalry "attacks "with the obligatory" fulfillment of ALL assigned tasks ", as well as shooting at" parachutes ", at" conditional points "or at targets, the level of old, like this mammoth itself, P-15 or non-maneuvering NURs, which do not carry any means of counteraction (the main -to be cheaper) ....

[Alekseev]

"Are the hopes for air defense and electronic warfare exaggerated?"
That is unlikely...
The question is what air defense and what kind of electronic warfare?
The Armenians were not even able to fully mobilize, not only the air defense system of the 60s, but not a single one was noticed. Not smoke or aerosol screens, or strikes on drone bases, or much of what is already there to counter the UAV.
And how many vehicles were abandoned with minimal damage and without them ...
So the use of drones in almost polygon conditions does not give an exhaustive picture, as well as the strikes of the Aerospace Forces in Syria.
But, to take certain measures to improve the technology and tactics of air defense, you need to strive for this,

[Zaurbek]

Protection from drones will dramatically increase spending on air defense and electronic warfare

[voyaka uh]

"The battlefield has radically changed with the arrival of remotely controlled and robotic technology, and the rate of this change is growing from year to year" ///
----
We formulated the state of affairs and the future with great precision.

[Lipchanin]

Or you can generally do with bowa, arrows and a spear

[Yura]

Quote: Hunter 2

We need to go further, we don't need the Army and the Navy ... we only need drones

And the soldiers are also not needed, let the drones fight too, or the Androns - it sounds better, otherwise the androids, you will break your tongue. And then there will be drones of drones, androns of androns, and in order not to harm the environment and people did not suffer, the battles will be virtual. Introduced - the President of the United States calls the Ayatollah of Iran and says, exactly today we defeated you to smithereens, and you were personally taken prisoner, so I order and let's dictate orders.

[Yura]

So let's continue, during this telephone conversation, the president's wife enters the oval office, and she sees, horror, that his hands are bloody from hours of manipulation with mice (each hand had a piece of gr ... that is, mice) and his nose was also broken in blood from the last blow to the keyboard, or rather the virtual red button on it. With a shout: "urgently to the operating table" the first lady runs to her computer, where a virtual hospital was deployed yesterday, and she is a surgeon there.

[kytx]

Skynet doesn't like your opinion
Sarah Conor too
i'm for skynet

[Yura]

Quote: kytx

Skynet doesn't like your opinion

This is not an opinion, this is reality, if only I knew whose.

i'm for skynet

It means against Sarah Conor, and this is in vain, she will cut you into a nut.

[Krasnodar]

Quote: Jura

Quote: kytx

Skynet doesn't like your opinion

This is not an opinion, this is reality, if only I knew whose.

i'm for skynet

It means against Sarah Conor, and this is in vain, she will cut you into a nut.

Remember!
Skynet is Genesis.
Sarah Conar is Khaleesi.

[Vasyan1971]

In his words, Baku was eventually able to thoroughly prepare for the war ...

That's it! Baku could, but Yerevan could not, and besides, he did not want to fight much.

especially from the Azerbaijani army, which has the superiority of the UAV

Well, you don't have to be an expert for such a "conclusion" ... By the way, what is this Emmanuel for an "expert" like?

[Alex777]

The expert forgot to mention that Azerbaijan fought with drones on its territory.
And Armenia did not use its aviation at all because it did not recognize Karabakh.

[AGGURD]

not true ... Armenia used aviation .. and lost 5 fighters. and it was not an accident that happened to them, but the air defense of the air defense missile system was beaten ... after which I did not dare to raise the remaining

[Alex777]

What kind of fighters did Armenia lose?
Su-30? How many?
I understand you have the joy of victory.
But should there be objectivity?

[AGGURD]

oh Alexander, okay, where does the joy of victory have to do with it ... we are discussing UAVs here with their efficiency ... we are talking about air otaki Azerbaijan also used fighters, but after the destruction of the Armenian air defense ... about the destroyed fighters there is officially a list of destroyed equipment on the websites and no one rejected and did not dispute ... Azerbaijan, after the crashed helicopter, raised drones. and it was destroyed by the air defense system .. remember the beginning of the war, the drones went actually for 5-6 days ... yes there were drones, but reconnaissance ... they were cheaper then they lost a couple but they got the info ...

[Alex777]

we are here UAVs discussing their efficiency ...

You are wrong. Article title:
"Millions on planes are useless": an expert from South America on the results of the Karabakh war
We're discussing planes here.
Modern Armenian aircraft (Su-30) were not used.
Air defense of Karabakh - unprofessional and untrained.
There is no reason to draw far-reaching conclusions about the incredible success of the UAV. IMHO.
If a trained army fights against an untrained army, it will always win.
By the way, did the Turks control the drones? Not Azerbaijanis?
The Armenians relied on the defensive line and completely failed the air defense.
My friend in Baku had 6 comrades who fought in Karabakh.
I know first-hand what happened and how.

[OgnennyiKotik]

Quote: Alex777

Air defense of Karabakh - unprofessional and untrained.

Lying. They are trained and professional. The armies of Karabakh and Armenia are de facto united. They are part of the unified air defense of Russia. Trained in Russia and by Russian specialists. A large number of joint exercises were conducted, the last one a couple of months before the war. I remind S300 and Torah this is the air defense of the Republic of Armenia. At least 10 Thors fought in Karabakh.

Planned exercises of the joint air defense system of Russia and Armenia started in Armenia today.

The main task: to study methods of countering reconnaissance and strike UAVs.
Press Secretary of the Armenian Defense Ministry Shushan Stepanyan reported this on his Facebook page.

https://ru.armeniasputnik.am/politics/20200723/23850867/Obedinennaya-sistema-PVO-Armenii-i-Rossii-izuchaet-metody-borby-s-bespilotnikami.html

[Alex777]

Lying. They are trained and professional. The armies of Karabakh and Armenia are de facto united. They are part of the unified air defense of Russia. Trained in Russia and by Russian specialists. A large number of joint exercises were conducted, the last one a couple of months before the war.

What do you have to do with Armenia?
Have you ever been there? In Karabakh?
Or do you take everything from newspapers and the Internet?

At least 10 Thors fought in Karabakh.

Explain then why the drones are not successful in Khmeimim, but in Karabakh all the air defenses were destroyed?

[OgnennyiKotik]

Quote: Alex777

Explain then why the drones are not successful in Khmeimim, but in Karabakh all the air defenses were destroyed?

Perfectly planned war by the Azerbaijan-Turkey coalition, with technical superiority.
Reconnaissance (UAV + RER) identified targets, Azerzky REP suppressed radar, aircraft, artillery, missiles, UAVs destroyed equipment.
Everything is according to the classics. This is not the first time that ground-based air defense has been destroyed this way. In general, there are no examples in history when air defense rescued someone.
It was developed among the Armenians. ZSU, Osa, Torah, Buki, S-300, electronic warfare means. Everything is like a textbook. The tutorials are just out of date.

Armenia lost four of the six Russian-made Tor-M2KM anti-aircraft missile systems (the most modern models) deployed in Karabakh in the first 15 days of the war, and half of the entire NKR air defense was destroyed in 15 minutes on September 27.

This was stated by the former secretary of the Security Council of the unrecognized Nagorno-Karabakh Republic Samvel Babayan.
According to him, after the destruction of the "Thors", four more complexes were sent to the combat zone.

In the first minutes of the war, units of the Armed Forces of Azerbaijan destroyed 10 Osa air defense systems and one S-300 air defense system.

Quote:
"There were no weapons. Air defense was at zero. There were 6 TORs, of which 4 were destroyed in the first 15 days. Then they sent 4 more, which can provide a maximum of 45 km."

[Alex777]

There was no weapon. Air defense at zero. There were 6 TOPs, of which 4 were destroyed in the first 15 days. Then they sent 4 more, which can provide a maximum of 45 km.

This is exactly what I wrote about.
And you unreasonably doubted.

It was developed among the Armenians. ZSU, Osa, Torah, Buki, S-300, electronic warfare means. Everything is like a textbook. The tutorials are just out of date.

Are the contradictions in your quotes not evident to you?
And you did not answer the question: do you get knowledge from the Internet and newspapers?

Azerzky REP suppressed the radar

Which radars when and who suppressed? Specifically, can you tell?

[OgnennyiKotik]

Quote: Alex777

Contradictions do not strike you?

No. "Half of the entire NKR air defense was destroyed in 15 minutes on September 27." It was at zero due to destruction.
Naturally from the Internet.

[Alex777]

"Half of the entire NKR air defense was destroyed in 15 minutes on September 27."

How was the NKR air defense destroyed? By what means?
Do you want to say that this UAV was done in 15 minutes?

[OgnennyiKotik]

Aircraft, helicopters, artillery, MLRS, OTRK, UAVs. Used Israeli and Turkish tactics and weapons. If we talk about UAVs, then these are mainly Israeli Hermes, Haropes, harpies, orbiters, etc. The significance of the Bayraktar is exaggerated and strongly. MLRS and artillery are mainly ours and potato, OTRK Israeli, guided missiles for aviation, too, from there. Electronic warfare systems are also from the promised land.

Once again, the former secretary of the Security Council of the unrecognized Nagorno-Karabakh Republic Samvel Babayan speaks about 15 minutes.

[Alex777]

In the "bottom line" you get:

in the NKR "there was a trained and professional" air defense, which Azerbaijan destroyed in 15 minutes.

[OgnennyiKotik]

Yes. As in Syria, Iraq, Serbia, Libya, etc. Ground air defense is destroyed easily and first. Its significance is exaggerated. There are no examples in history when it defended someone from the aggression of a more technically advanced enemy. Even less, everyone remembers the punctures of the Israeli and American air defense / missile defense.
You proceed from the fact that there is some kind of air defense that is capable of protecting against air threats, but this statement comes from Soviet and Russian propaganda. There are no examples confirming this.

I argue that without advanced aviation, any air defense system will lose to those who have this aviation. Everyone forgets about the Turkish AWACS that hung at the borders day and night, F16s that were ready to shoot down the Su-30 (possibly shot down the Su-25), Israeli and Turkish-made electronic warfare systems, including UAVs, guided air-to-ground missiles with Azerskih Su-25.
The Armenians lost "air", the ground troops were at the proper level, but they were powerless against air superiority.

[Alex777]

Ground air defense is destroyed easily and first. Its significance is exaggerated.

Yes Yes. NATO is racking its brains in vain what to do with Kaliningrad and Crimea.

You proceed from the fact that there is some kind of air defense that is capable of protecting against air threats, but this statement comes from Soviet and Russian propaganda. There are no examples confirming this.

The only thing I agree with:

The Armenians lost "air", the ground troops were at the proper level, but they were powerless against air superiority.

And then, after the NKR ground troops knocked them out of the prepared lines, they were confused and didn't really know what to do.
Armenia did not have money for proper maintenance and training of the army.
In addition, Pashinyan dispersed all the "corrupt generals" of Karabakh.
And Azerbaijan had money. And they were effectively disposed of.
Well, the sultan helped. How could you have won without him?

[OgnennyiKotik]

Quote: Alex777

NATO is racking its brains in vain what to do with Kaliningrad and Crimea.

Russian propaganda. They don't care about Kaliningrad and Crimea. They are in the operational environment. The only thing they care about is how to reduce the damage to 0. And the main thing is not to get a preemptive nuclear strike.

Quote: Alex777

Well, the sultan helped. How could you have won without him?

By the way, I think that the importance of Turkey is greatly exaggerated. In the war, Israeli weapons and training played a much larger role. England helped more politically.

[Alex777]

Russian propaganda.

Whose will you be?

[OgnennyiKotik]

They have already been called Ukrainian, Turk, Azer, Jew. You can count it as anyone, I don't care.
And so a citizen of Russia. I just don't confuse the government and the country. In that phrase, it should have been written "propaganda of Putin's government." They are related to the country insofar as.

[pytar]

They have already been called Ukrainian, Turk, Azer, Jew. You can count it as anyone, I don't care.

You are a smart person! Respect! But it is impossible to convince "these".

[OgnennyiKotik]

Thanks for the comment

[Alex777]

When a person writes: "Russian propaganda" - the question arises who is he?

And so a citizen of Russia. I just don't confuse the government and the country. In that phrase, it should have been written "propaganda of Putin's government." They are related to the country insofar as.

Do you really think this is smart?
That Putin is a bad leader for Russia?
That the majority did not vote for him?

[pytar]

When a person writes: "Russian propaganda"

Ross. / n-tskaya / propaganda does not exist, or what?

- the question arises who is he?

A man thinking with his own head!

That the majority did not vote for him?

Those who think their heads are not always the majority to regret.

[Alex777]

But it is impossible to convince "these".

Bulgaria is a US colony.
Russia, I hope, will not be there.
I will not persuade you.
I hope the majority in Bulgaria treats Russia well.
I have a very good attitude towards Bulgaria. I wish you success in NG.

[pytar]

Bulgaria is a US colony. Russia, I hope, will not be there.

Your hopes are belated ... Huge Russian assets are owned by foreign investors or are held in foreign / western / banks.
By the way, I wonder how the "colony Bulgaria", which does not have natural resources, lives exactly no worse, and even better, than the richest country in the world in resources, which is supposedly not a colony?

I will not persuade you.

I can be persuaded when I am given reasonable, logical reasons! I will recommend to you too, listen to other opinions!

I hope the majority in Bulgaria treats Russia well.

Absolutely all polls, including those conducted by Western socialist agencies, categorically show that the overwhelming majority of Bulgarians have a positive attitude towards Russians! In this regard, Bulgaria leads the EU. We don't consider Russians as strangers!
But as the colleague of the forum said OgnennyiKotik do not confuse the government with the country! These are two different things! In power very often there are criminals who, through propaganda, fool the brains of the people!

I have a very good attitude towards Bulgaria. I wish you success in NG

Thank you, dear Alexander! I treat Russia as my second homeland! Yes, Rusia is more alive, and Bulgaria is more alive!
I wish you a good mood for the upcoming New Year Holidays!

[Suleiman]

What kind of drones are you talking about in Khmeimim?)) So there only quadcopters with Aliexpress were used. Was it used against Khmeimim TV2 or Harop ???

[OgnennyiKotik]

Quote: AĞGURD

the count of destroyed fighters is officially on the websites of the list of destroyed equipment and no one has rejected or disputed

We are talking about the Su-25, it is not a fighter, but an attack aircraft.

[Suleiman]

My friend confused a bit. The stormtroopers were shot down. Armenians lost 5 rooks.

[9PA]

That's right, planes are not needed and tanks are also not needed, and soldiers, in principle.

[Lipchanin]

Quote: 9PA

That's right, planes are not needed and tanks are also not needed, and soldiers, in principle

Aha. I handed out machine guns to the mouths of the cleaners and onward
Made fun by the author

[rocket757]

The expert amused, amused. And then, they began to forget that drones are equipment, technician, weapons, weapons!

[ximkim]

In addition to the UAV, the control operators and tech. staff.

[saigon]

Quite a logical statement, the main thing is cheaper and again cheaper.
So they flooded the conclusions after the UAVcrigue performed by Azerbaijan, why planes and bases were planted by UAVs in the meadows and play.

[Mykhalych]

Quote: "The drones have been able to wreak havoc and panic in [the] fighting here
- writes expert Emmanuel Roose on the pages of the South American press, indicating that the active use of drones, despite the large losses among them, made it possible to destroy both armored vehicles and anti-aircraft weapons covering it ... "- taken from https://alex-news.ru/milliony-na-samolyoty-ni-k-chemu-ekspert-iz-yuzhnoy-ameriki-ob-itogah-karabahskoy-voyny/, the publication pucaradefensa has 9777 subscribers ... "Authoritative", nothing to say ... More and more truly empty on VO.

[Eugene-Eugene]

Check publication dates, UFO expert

[rotmistr60]

An "expert" from South America makes a profound conclusion on the example of a small armed conflict about the unnecessary need for aviation, which requires huge financial costs. All on UAVs and planes on the side. And those who do not have money for their aircraft will they have enough for modern drones? Tomorrow an "expert" from Africa will declare that why keep a costly army when you can use local armed tribes is not clear what. The whole problem lies not in aviation and drones, but in the "experts" themselves, who know little about military affairs.

[Krasnodar]

So for small and poor countries of LA this is really important - there is no money, the planes are expensive, the training of a quality pilot is also, and no one canceled conflicts with neighbors

[Yaro Polk]

It's just that the Armenians did not have normal electronic warfare, so these "fleas" would have knocked out the hell)

[three]

And on the side of the "ignorant author" and the military authority of Honduras. Opinion is based on Fact. I would very much like to hope that our Ministry of Defense knows what to do in the clearly changing priorities of conducting modern military conflicts towards the use of robotics. This is - in general. And in particular, how effective our response will be to a potential attack by the same Turkish drones tomorrow, but at least in the Donbas.

[alexmach]

but instead of spending millions on the purchase of an aircraft and pilot training, it is better to purchase remotely controlled UAVs

Seriously? that is, Azerbaijan did not have manned aircraft or what? And the Turks did not visit them? Maybe they didn't have an air defense system? If this were so, the Armenian Sushki would have simply blown away these Bayraktars.

[Eugene-Eugene]

No, you wouldn't be blown away. Because they are Armenian. And Artsakh is a different planet ... for Yerevan and Pashinyan. Hence the drain.

[alexmach]

There is no need to drag Pashinyan onto the globe. They did not take part in the war, not because something is out there somewhere else, but because Azerbaijan was ready for war by an order of magnitude better and a large-scale war would simply mean a larger-scale defeat for Armenia. That's all.

[dense]

I heard they let air kites there well)) why spend money on UAVs?

[AGGURD]

Quote: Alex777

What kind of fighters did Armenia lose?
Su-30? How many?
I understand you have the joy of victory.
But should there be objectivity?

and as I understood from the pictures at the same time, several drones otakovat each REB air defense system, etc. ... it seems to me there were diverting maneuvers because in the picture the equipment was deployed in one direction or the other, and the drone or projectile flew into it from the opposite side. ..or when the unprepared chtoli stood just stupidly, the soldiers fled (rather tried) from the vehicles when a shell or a drone hit it ... I was also interested in this moment .. they had a lunch break or they thought that the battles were going where there in the place that is not reached theirs?

[AGGURD]

Quote: Alex777

we are here UAVs discussing their efficiency ...

You are wrong. Article title:
"Millions on planes are useless": an expert from South America on the results of the Karabakh war
We're discussing planes here.
Modern Armenian aircraft (Su-30) were not used.
Air defense of Karabakh - unprofessional and untrained.
There is no reason to draw far-reaching conclusions about the incredible success of the UAV. IMHO.
If a trained army fights against an untrained army, it will always win.
By the way, did the Turks control the drones? Not Azerbaijanis?
The Armenians relied on the defensive line and completely failed the air defense.
My friend in Baku had 6 comrades who fought in Karabakh.
I know first-hand what happened and how.

but what's the difference not efficiency because of the high cost of the SU or effective because of the cheapness of the UAV the same topic .. I meant that we are not discussing victory or loss of the parties, but discussing the Air Force and I meant that the fighters could not use none of the other air defenses worked for both ... ((the armenian air force was forced to raise when the Azerb. air force took Tagovert and Gushchular ... and the air defense force used in the Shushi region the otaka was on Korintak and Gapanly, Gazyan it was on the 39th day, and the Armenians, in my opinion, lost between the 27th and 33rd day of the war in this interval, I don’t remember exactly what it is necessary to dig in the internet

[AGGURD]

Quote: OgnennyiKotik

Quote: AĞGURD

the count of destroyed fighters is officially on the websites of the list of destroyed equipment and no one has rejected or disputed

We are talking about the Su-25, it is not a fighter, but an attack aircraft.

oh sorry "this is not a turd, but my grandfather shit" and that the SU-25 is not a plane but a submarine ....
topic: "Millions on airplanes are useless": an expert from South America on the results of the Karabakh war ... uh, Alexander, why don't you care less about my comments but to the words separating them from the general essence of the sentence ... I thought you more ((. ..I will give you a plus as before, but I expected something more interesting from you and not distortion or searching for an error in my words .. ((...

[AGGURD]

Quote: OgnennyiKotik

Quote: Alex777

Air defense of Karabakh - unprofessional and untrained.

Lying. They are trained and professional. The armies of Karabakh and Armenia are de facto united. They are part of the unified air defense of Russia. Trained in Russia and by Russian specialists. A large number of joint exercises were conducted, the last one a couple of months before the war. I remind S300 and Torah this is the air defense of the Republic of Armenia. At least 10 Thors fought in Karabakh.

Planned exercises of the joint air defense system of Russia and Armenia started in Armenia today.

The main task: to study methods of countering reconnaissance and strike UAVs.
Press Secretary of the Armenian Defense Ministry Shushan Stepanyan reported this on his Facebook page.

https://ru.armeniasputnik.am/politics/20200723/23850867/Obedinennaya-sistema-PVO-Armenii-i-Rossii-izuchaet-metody-borby-s-bespilotnikami.html

yes no ... why are you Fiery cat ... There weren't those tankers who performed and occupied almost the most honorable place among the CIS and there was not that tank with the same T-90 taxi driver who was waiting in Baku and there were civilians and brave old people with hunting rifles, militias from women with children (Although they also got there and managed to poison them to the front to raise their spirits) and just one machine gun in their hands against the army of everything Turkic, ISIS, MIGL.NATO, Islam and aliens ...

[Mikhail Zakharov]

you don't need aviation? planes will arrive and bomb the hell out of everything that turns up and then they will launch their drones to finish off what remains

[Suleiman]

Quote: Yaro Polk

It's just that the Armenians did not have normal electronic warfare, so these "fleas" would have knocked out the hell)

It became known that one of the most advanced Russian electronic warfare systems "Repellent", which was protecting the positions of the Armenian military, was destroyed by an Azeri attack drone. The electronic warfare complex, according to the data of the Russian manufacturer STC-REB JSC, was supposed to suppress small unmanned aerial vehicles, which was the Azerbaijani kamikaze drone.
More details at: https://avia.pro/news/peredovaya-rossiyskaya-sistema-reb-repellent-unichtozhena-v-armenii

[Suleiman]

Quote: alexmach

but instead of spending millions on the purchase of an aircraft and pilot training, it is better to purchase remotely controlled UAVs

Seriously? that is, Azerbaijan did not have manned aircraft or what? And the Turks did not visit them? Maybe they didn't have an air defense system? If this were so, the Armenian Sushki would have simply blown away these Bayraktars.

And the Armenian Dryers first had to take off. Although 5 of them took off, they never landed.

[Suleiman]

Quote: alexmach

a large-scale war would simply mean a larger defeat for Armenia

Perhaps I agree with this.

[Alex russia]

If by a large-scale war you mean a war between Turkey and Armenia, then yes, it is unambiguous, but in the Azerbaijan-Armenia variant, let's be honest with ourselves, it is extremely doubtful about a victorious war, because everyone perfectly understands who is behind the victory in Karabakh

[Logan]

If both belligerent sides possess drones, then the Azerbaijanis will no longer have such an advantage as it was in Karabakh. Now all countries will catch up and make / buy themselves shock drones. And then the role of countermeasures against drones will increase, which can give an advantage to those who have such means.

[Alex russia]

funny expert opinion from Honduras or where about there. And nothing that the same Armenia practically did not have any military aviation or detection systems. It is surprising that the countries that are really the main locomotive in the creation of drones (i.e., not a screwdriver assembly from imported components like Turkey, namely the creation of all components from A to Z, the USA, Israel ...) focus on classical aviation and not for drones. But what is there to discuss, the same Turkey constantly violating the air borders of neighboring Greece, for example, uses 99% of classic military aviation and not drones, as it perfectly understands that for the enemy having modern air defense and modern fighters - drones are just easy prey for a snack ... So not everything is so simple at the moment

[svoit]

It seemed to me strange that manned aircraft were somehow little used by Azerbaijan even after the suppression of air defense, although it was supposedly for this purpose that it was suppressed

[alone]

Quote: svoit

was little used by Azerbaijan even after the suppression of air defense, although it seems to be precisely for this that it was suppressed

Well, as you know, after the suppression of air defense, it was rational to use the BLPA shock. What do you think, why spend millions if all this can be done for tens of thousands .. Assault aircraft was used limitedly against concrete bunkers. We destroyed 250 kg with laser-guided land mines. But the helicopters worked constantly .. but only remotely .. the weapons system allowed to destroy targets 20-30 km from the combat zone