Military Review

Food ration cards in Russia: a return to the past or a timely measure?

278
Food ration cards in Russia: a return to the past or a timely measure?

The very idea of ​​introducing cards in a situation when the country is going through a difficult period is not something unusual both for Russia and for the rest of the world, which we are used to calling “developed” or “civilized”. Comparison of the present moment with the years of "perestroika", when various restrictions on the purchase of essential goods, resulting in the appearance of "coupons" and "coupons", were caused by a deficit artificially created for the collapse of the USSR "from above", in my opinion, is incorrect.


Rather, it’s worth talking about the years of the post-war recovery period, when this forced measure helped to save millions of people from hunger and death, and the country's economy made it possible to survive and get stronger, despite all the trials that fell. The coronavirus pandemic is not a worldwide disaster that requires solutions and measures that are truly extraordinary?

By the way, those who today pounced on the authors of the idea of ​​food rationing for the poor with accusations of “trying to hyip” and accusations of “poorly thought out the initiative”, for some reason forget that they were the first with a similar proposal to the domestic Ministry of Industry and Trade in April of this years ago, it was not politicians who applied at all, but Russian entrepreneurs. A collective letter to this effect was signed by representatives of the leading enterprises in the agro-industrial, processing and food industries.

It is in their opinion that targeted assistance to our compatriots, whose income was below the subsistence level, will not only help this socially vulnerable group of the population, but also save many enterprises in agriculture, industry and trade from ruin. Business representatives believed that such a measure would be much more effective than government regulation of food prices, which could, in particular, lead to the opposite result - the disappearance of essential goods from the sale, the emergence of their "black market" and an even greater rise in prices.

Anyway, critics of the idea, for example, the first deputy chairman of the committee of the upper house of parliament on budget and financial markets, Sergei Ryabukhin, who said that the rationing system could be introduced in the country only "in conditions of a shortage of products, and not of the surplus that is now available," simply did not understand the essence of the proposal. As Yulia Ogloblina, a member of the Public Chamber, later explained, she by no means had in mind the total transition to cards of the 1941 sample. Not at all! It was exclusively about targeted, targeted assistance to the poor.


Julia Ogloblina


Also, apparently, Nikita Krichevsky, the chief researcher of the Institute of Economics of the Russian Academy of Sciences, did not understand what he had heard, who generally began to discuss the insignificant details of the proposed innovation. For example, he was concerned about how the "new cards" would look and the problem of "easy counterfeit cardboard squares" ...

Have mercy, gentlemen, the XXI century is in the yard. Have you heard anything about plastic cards? But, by the way, Ogloblina just proposes to move first of all this way. And, by the way, it is these “food stamps” within the framework of the nationwide Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP) that have existed in the United States for more than 80 years, which are so often presented to us as the standard of well-being and prosperity.

In the post-crisis 2008-2009, the number of clients of this program in the United States reached almost 47 million people. Funds allocated within its framework are transferred to special bank cards EBT (Electronic Benefits Transfer), with which you can purchase any food - with the exception of alcohol and tobacco. And in the domestic Ministry of Trade, something similar has been discussed since at least 2014. True, they planned to make transfers to "specially opened accounts" there. But this is where the particulars and details begin, in which you know who can hide ...

It is unlikely that it will be possible to completely transfer such a program to an electronic version - far from all the settlements of the domestic "hinterland" (especially in rural areas) will be technically ready for this. Give out aid in the form of "real money"? But there are two problems here. Firstly, such funds are really guaranteed not to go to "intoxicating" or smoking. Secondly, there is a double meaning - the program will have support for both low-income citizens and domestic producers only if the funds allocated for it are spent on the purchase of food products of exclusively Russian origin.

In a word, with the general usefulness and timeliness of the initiative, it really needs a serious study of the intricacies of its implementation in relation to the realities of "native aspens". However, Mrs. Ogloblina promised that the Public Chamber would send a thoughtful and balanced, extremely specific proposal to the government. I would like to believe that it will be so.
Author:
Photos used:
photo from the site of the Public Chamber of the Smolensk region / Julia Ogloblina
278 comments
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  1. NDR-791
    NDR-791 22 December 2020 11: 47
    +51
    The very idea of ​​introducing cards in a situation when the country is going through a difficult period is not something unusual both for Russia and for the rest of the world, which we used to call “developed” or “civilized”.
    Let's be honest, even to ourselves. When the state cannot and does not want to limit the greed of the grabber, it limits the population. And the poor there or all the polls are particulars.
    1. carstorm 11
      carstorm 11 22 December 2020 11: 52
      +4
      You probably also did not understand that here as a conversation not about restrictions, but on the contrary about help. In any country there will be poor people. And there is an opportunity to create a mechanism to help them people lost income during the crisis. The state helps them to survive. As the author correctly said, the main thing here is how to do it correctly. In our school, children and low-income families and large families in the nineties were given coupons for meals for every day. I do not remember under the auspices of what, but this is quite reasonable help.
      1. NDR-791
        NDR-791 22 December 2020 11: 56
        +24
        I do not know about you, I lived on the coupon system in the 90s. Here the problem is WHAT AND HOW MUCH !!! If the consumer basket contains 1,5 socks per year or 400g of cereal per month is entered into the card (and I assure you that it will be so or so), then this is not help, it is a slow dying.
        1. carstorm 11
          carstorm 11 22 December 2020 11: 59
          -4
          Here again, you did not understand) exactly the same about whom the author writes) these are not coupons. This is money. Just with certain restrictions and in a different form .. You bought the product with coupons anyway. In this case, you pay for it in the store.
          1. aglet
            aglet 22 December 2020 12: 38
            +18
            "Here again you did not understand"
            it was about cards, not about money. and the initiative of traders is aimed at ensuring that their products are guaranteed to be bought, no matter what. caring for the poor here goes sideways
            1. carstorm 11
              carstorm 11 22 December 2020 12: 41
              -12%
              One does not interfere with the other at all.
              1. aglet
                aglet 22 December 2020 13: 13
                +16
                "One does not interfere with the other at all"
                it is precisely the irrepressible greed of traders and the government's unwillingness to raise the income of the population that led to so many beggars in the potentially richest country in the world
                1. carstorm 11
                  carstorm 11 22 December 2020 13: 20
                  -14%
                  This will never happen) which means you have to live in reality
                2. Cube123
                  Cube123 22 December 2020 14: 16
                  0
                  Quote: aglet
                  "One does not interfere with the other at all"
                  it is precisely the irrepressible greed of the traders and the government's unwillingness to raise the incomes of the population that led to so many beggars in potentially richest country in the world

                  Read how this is in a country that really considers itself the richest in the world:
                  "What you need to know about Food Stamps"
                  https://yandex.ru/turbo/usa.one/s/2018/06/chto-nuzhno-znat-o-food-stamps/
                  "SNAP adherents argue that food stamps are a very effective measure to keep poor Americans from starving. In their opinion, President Trump's reforms will leave many people without a power source."

                  "There are clear selection criteria for US residents who may be eligible for food stamps.
                  The total income of the entire family, consisting of at least 3 people, must be below 130% of the poverty line, that is, about $ 26 thousand per family per year. If there is an elderly person in the family, disabled or physically disabled, the total level of their savings can reach $ 3,5 thousand. If there are no such family members, then no more than $ 2,25 thousand. "

                  "How many US citizens get food stamps
                  In 2018 officially and42,2 million people are eligible for food stamps and receive them. This number is gradually decreasing. So, in 2013, 47,6 million were received from the government. "

                  "Who gets food stamps
                  In the past few years, about 44% of food stamp recipients were minors, and 12% were US citizens and residents over the age of 60. The remaining recipients were American adults of working age.

                  57% of all consumers are women, 43% are men.

                  About 36% of consumers are white and 26% are African American. 17% are Hispanic consumers and 3% are Asian. About 11% of consumers are American adults with disabilities. "

                  "How Much Does the Food Stamp Program Cost for Taxpayers
                  Last year, the federal government spent a little over $ 68 billion on SNAP... More than 93% of the funds go to benefits, which are credited to the card, and the rest covers administrative costs. "
                3. Vadim237
                  Vadim237 22 December 2020 15: 18
                  -5
                  Incomes of the population will grow only when the entire economy grows and not 2 - 3% per year, but 10 or more, but the Russian economy will hardly see such growth in this decade.
                  1. Ingvar 72
                    Ingvar 72 23 December 2020 09: 38
                    +4
                    Quote: Vadim237
                    more but the Russian economy will hardly see such growth in this decade.

                    I was reminded of an incident from the life of Bernard Shaw. Once at a reception he was told - "Looking at you, Mr. Shaw, one might think that there is a famine in the country.
                    "Looking at you, Mr. Northcliff, one might think that you are the cause of this hunger," Shaw replied.
                    This is me, Vadik, that yesterday they published information on the income of the head of Russian Railways for 2020. And this is 450.000.000. Half a yard, Vadik! What is the economic growth? !! fool
                    As long as these .... radishes will "rule" the country, there will be no growth at all! negative
                    1. Vadim237
                      Vadim237 23 December 2020 18: 01
                      -2
                      And how does the income of the head of Russian Railways affect the growth of the Russian economy or somehow hinder it? The growth of the economy depends primarily on the demand for all goods and services, both domestically and abroad, as well as on the range of goods and services and their demand, but not at all on how much salary someone in the management receives.
                      1. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 23 December 2020 19: 00
                        +2
                        Quote: Vadim237
                        And how does the income of the head of Russian Railways affect the growth of the Russian economy or somehow inhibit it?

                        Not catching up yourself? How do you think the distribution of profits with a clear bias towards top management affects the development of the industry? And such nonsense all over the country, wherever you spit.
          2. Revival
            Revival 22 December 2020 13: 21
            +22
            The author writes that in a "great-power" country, there are a huge number of beggars who already need to issue food cards so that they do not die of hunger
            1. Boris Chernikov
              Boris Chernikov 23 December 2020 23: 45
              -1
              the author writes that many people try to write their opinion without even trying to figure out the essence of the issue .. like you for example ..
              1. Revival
                Revival 24 December 2020 14: 28
                -1
                And some write frank delirium, of which I was convinced right now
                1. Boris Chernikov
                  Boris Chernikov 24 December 2020 14: 45
                  -3
                  you yourself understood that you wrote nonsense? laughing
          3. three
            three 22 December 2020 13: 26
            +12
            Yes, we all understood. 30 rubles will be added to the social pension of 7 tyrs and they will shout about the welfare state. Angles about 50 pounds per child to NG have already laughed.
        2. nnm
          nnm 22 December 2020 12: 00
          -1
          Why are you comparing this ??? Then only with the help of cards you could buy food for yourself (except for co-retail stores), but now it is ADDITIONAL, FREE, it is proposed to give it to the poor. What's bad about it ?!!
          1. aleksejkabanets
            aleksejkabanets 22 December 2020 12: 08
            +32
            Quote: nnm
            Why are you comparing this ??? Then only with the help of cards you could buy food for yourself (except for co-retail stores), but now it is ADDITIONAL, FREE, it is proposed to give it to the poor. What's bad about it ?!!

            There is nothing wrong with that. The bad news is that the state killed its economy to such an extent that it lived up to ration cards. And someone continues to shout about how we "got off our knees" after the 90s. I'm afraid the "new nineties" are just around the corner.
            1. nnm
              nnm 22 December 2020 12: 18
              -16%
              Once again .... do you know a way to force drinking families to stop drinking, to force parasites to work, to instantly raise pensions several times, to return fathers who have run away from them to families with children, etc.? I dont know. But what's wrong with the fact that, in addition to the funds that these people have, in addition to giving out products for free? It is more difficult to drink them, it is more likely that they will reach a child in such a family than if you give out money. Or do you have a real recipe for how to immediately solve the problem of low income? Only with numbers and calculations, and not general words about barricades, grains and Chubais .... because you can shout about Miller's salary for many years, and this will not add much money to a pensioner. And what's wrong if, while we shake the air, give the same grandmother an ADDITIONAL food set?
              1. Revival
                Revival 22 December 2020 12: 29
                +14
                "Or do you have a real recipe for how to quickly solve the problem of low incomes?"

                The problem is to get together to solve the problem of low incomes!
                1. nnm
                  nnm 22 December 2020 12: 34
                  -5
                  Yes, great, we can discuss this for another 20 years, in the hope that they will hear us, and let people wait while ...
                  1. Revival
                    Revival 22 December 2020 13: 24
                    +9
                    One gets the impression that they are capable of "waiting" forever ...
                2. Machito
                  Machito 22 December 2020 13: 29
                  +30
                  And the problem of high income is not even voiced. Every Depardieu run into the country to pay 13% from their super profits. The progressive scale of income taxes has sunk into oblivion.
                  Russia's problem is not that you cannot feed the poor. The problem with Russia is that the rich won't get drunk.
                  1. Vadim237
                    Vadim237 22 December 2020 15: 27
                    -16%
                    Everyone earns as they can - and the rich should not put the poor on their necks, but should honestly pay taxes to these people, the state should help them get out of poverty, but they themselves should make efforts, each creator of their own life and happiness.
                    1. Revival
                      Revival 22 December 2020 15: 44
                      +5
                      State !?
                      Well, as soon as it appears, then it will begin to do everything
                    2. IS-80_RVGK2
                      IS-80_RVGK2 22 December 2020 17: 43
                      +11
                      Yes Yes. We already know this. That only the rich have the right to sit on the neck of the poor, and not vice versa. For thirty years of building a bright capitalist future, we have already understood this.
                      1. Vadim237
                        Vadim237 23 December 2020 18: 04
                        -2
                        The poor have no money - so they have low purchasing power to sit around their necks.
                      2. IS-80_RVGK2
                        IS-80_RVGK2 23 December 2020 22: 45
                        +1
                        Dy, dy. Of course. That is why from time immemorial people have been ripped off by taxes and other cruel exploitation with the squeezing of surplus value. Periodically leading to uprisings and other revolutions.
            2. Civil
              Civil 22 December 2020 12: 31
              +31
              Food ration cards in Russia: a return to the past or a timely measure?
              1. Meal by card is a full bottom.
              2. When the USSR was falling apart, cards were also introduced.
              3. Switching to handouts instead of raising salaries is an excellent result.
              4. The introduction of "quasi-money" will lead to both a deficit and inflation, nothing is free.
              5. Comparison with the United States is a shame, the economy there is many times more powerful and, most importantly, they have a machine with money. They can afford "quasi-money" in any amount.
              6. To consider all the poor citizens of Russia-drunks another recognition of Russians as dependent servants.
              1. nnm
                nnm 22 December 2020 12: 40
                -11%
                Colleague, I'm sorry, but I'm already tired of trying to explain what is being commented on without even understanding the question. If you want, you will read the above. It just won't fit the globe, what I read on the forum.
                Essentially, it looks like this:
                1. Give the poor in ADDITIONAL, give out products for FREE.
                2. We: no, this is not an option, let's change the system, steal, disgrace, let's create jobs !!!! Don't give out anything!
                3. Bottom line: the poor continue to go hungry, we continue to shout slogans (often correct) for years. An excellent option and those without food, and the authorities do not care about our cries.
                4. Attention, the question: why is it impossible to start providing products to low-income products and, in parallel, demand changes in the system?
                1. aglet
                  aglet 22 December 2020 13: 24
                  +7
                  "Colleague, I'm sorry, but I'm already tired of trying to explain what is being commented on without even understanding the question."
                  you so clearly understand this question, which you have not even gathered to accept, that it seems that it was you who introduced it. do not consider yourself the smartest. are you sure you got it right? and everyone has the right to their opinion, especially on an issue that does not yet exist, and most likely will not.
                2. Roman070280
                  Roman070280 22 December 2020 13: 35
                  +13
                  Attention, question: why is it impossible to start issuing now

                  Why can't you start execution from step 2 now?

                  You suggest that a patient who needs to have a cancer tumor removed should be given free vitamins for a start.
                  Well, they won't make him any worse today - that's right .. But this does not solve the problem ..
                  Looking from the wrong side !! With this approach, in 10 years we will all be sitting on cards ..
                3. Civil
                  Civil 22 December 2020 14: 08
                  +14
                  1. Nothing happens for free, they will pay exorbitant money from the budget.
                  2. The issue will turn into just a monstrous sinecure with blackjack, courtesans and Luna Park.
                  3. Lenin's principle - the worse the better.
                  4. Well-fed system does not change.
                4. IS-80_RVGK2
                  IS-80_RVGK2 22 December 2020 17: 48
                  +4
                  Explain, you are our explainer. How does it happen. There is enough money in the state for the benefits of the poor. And there is not enough money to pay them normal salaries so that they do not have to spend money on benefits. Directly a mystery. In principle, I know the answer. I'm wondering how an adept of capitalism will explain it. What intricate demagoguery there will be.
              2. Uncle lee
                Uncle lee 22 December 2020 13: 31
                +9
                Quote: Civil
                When the USSR collapsed, cards were also introduced.

                That's it ! The setting is very reminiscent of the late 80s, early 90s ...
                1. New Year day
                  New Year day 22 December 2020 14: 24
                  +14
                  Quote: Uncle Lee
                  The setting is very reminiscent of the late 80s, early 90s ...

                  what is it about! It's just impossible to hide everything now! I would not want the same ending. 20 years of "wins, jerks and accelerations", and as a result, running in place
                  1. Uncle lee
                    Uncle lee 22 December 2020 14: 54
                    +4
                    Quote: Silvestr
                    running in place

                    "Bad news is not terrible -
                    We start running on the spot "...
              3. Pilot
                Pilot 22 December 2020 14: 27
                +7
                ,, It was smooth on paper, but they forgot about the ravines ,, (c) They came up with an initiative about food cards, but they didn’t ask the owners for permission, for this they got a turn from the gate. I recently posted this quote from the ,, Arguments of the week ,,, I repeat again ................................. .................................
                The food market in Russia is controlled by foreign companies
                Alexander Chuikov
                December 15, 2020 .... The earth is getting weirder and weirder. The largest agricultural holdings "eat" Russian agricultural lands, like Gargantua and Pantagruel. According to experts from the consulting company BEFL, in 2015, 43 largest agricultural holdings disposed of almost 8 million hectares of Russian arable land! And in May 5 from Christmas, 2020 companies already controlled 61 million hectares, 14 thousand hectares more than last year.

                The five main latifundists have 3 million hectares in their pockets. Thus, the ABH Miratorg, which has nothing to do with the wife of the former prime minister, has crossed the fatal milestone - 81 million hectares. In second place is the Prodimex holding with 1 thousand hectares. "Agrocomplex named after N.I. Kacheva "- 04 thousand hectares, GK" Rusagro "- 865 thousand ha. EkoNiva-APK closes the top five of the land leaders, whose land bank is estimated at 653 thousand hectares.

                Why count land in someone else's pocket? But why! The founders of Miratorg, the open beneficiaries of the business, according to Rusprofil, are 2 foreign legal entities: Agromir LLC (Cyprus) with a share of 1 rubles. (730, 826%) and Saudeid Enterprises Limited with a share of 900 rubles. (99%).

                Prodimex is presumably Meadway holdings ltd.

                At the "Agrocomplex" in the Unified State Register of Legal Entities on 117 pages of the extract text there is no information about the founders, which causes not just surprise, but admiration for the resourcefulness of the owner of 653 thousand hectares.

                Everything is extremely confusing in Rusagro, therefore, in order not to run into legal difficulties, we will not say anything.

                The main founder of EkoNiva-APK, with a 98% share (5 rubles), is Ekozem-Agrar Ag, registered in Germany.

                Let us just remind you that according to federal laws, agricultural land cannot be sold to foreigners! So, none of the first five companies that own nearly 4 million hectares of Russian arable land have a clear and transparent structure of real ultimate beneficiaries. But they still receive gigantic budgetary subsidies ... Curtain.
                1. Uncle lee
                  Uncle lee 22 December 2020 15: 01
                  +9
                  Quote: Pilot
                  The largest agricultural holdings "eat" Russian lands

                  And we also laugh at Ukraine that they are selling their black soil ...
                  I've heard the opinion of smart people that agricultural holdings will devour us!
              4. Vadim237
                Vadim237 22 December 2020 15: 29
                -8
                When the USSR collapsed, cards were also introduced - this is due to the lack of goods in the required quantities, and now cards are a lack of money - but the goods were piled up.
                1. IS-80_RVGK2
                  IS-80_RVGK2 22 December 2020 17: 50
                  +7
                  And how is it better if the result is essentially the same? People can't buy shit.
                2. Overlock
                  Overlock 23 December 2020 14: 43
                  +7
                  Quote: Vadim237
                  When the USSR collapsed, cards were also introduced - this is due to the lack of goods in the required quantities, and now cards are a lack of money - but the goods were piled up.

                  is it better or worse?
                  1. Vadim237
                    Vadim237 23 December 2020 18: 07
                    0
                    The main thing is that there is a product - you can earn money, but when there is no product and you really need it with money, you will definitely not be full with the USSR and there is a lot of money on hand - there are no goods.
              5. Simargl
                Simargl 22 December 2020 19: 17
                -2
                Quote: Civil
                When the USSR collapsed, cards were also introduced.
                Remind, please, in what period of time did the USSR do without the rationing system? It seems like it turns out that the USSR was falling apart permanently.
            3. aleksejkabanets
              aleksejkabanets 22 December 2020 13: 08
              +15
              Quote: nnm
              But what's wrong with the fact that, in addition to the funds that these people have, in addition to giving out products for free?

              Naturally, there is nothing wrong with that, I wrote about this. And people drink more from despair and loss of the meaning of their existence. And this can only be solved by establishing a more just system of social structure.
              Quote: nnm
              Or do you have a real recipe for how to instantly solve the problem of low income?

              Such things are not resolved instantly. This is a "long game", and not under this socio-economic system.
              Quote: nnm
              to give the same grandmother an ADDITIONAL food set?

              There is nothing wrong with that. The idea is good, rather a necessary measure. Let's see what the implementation will be. All previous experience tells me that the implementation will be "so-so". I would like to be wrong. And yet, I believe that this (and not only this) is the forerunner of the new nineties.
          2. three
            three 22 December 2020 13: 30
            +2
            Supported. I don’t understand why they don’t consider the issue of a stupid increase in pensions. The budget allows (any normal economy would have long ago pushed through to achieve the target in CPI without any QE). Well, yes, all sorts of tax maneuvers and manipulations for oligarch corporations will become smaller, but here either checkers or Ukraine 2.0.
            1. aleksejkabanets
              aleksejkabanets 22 December 2020 13: 44
              +12
              Quote: tros
              Well, yes, all sorts of tax maneuvers and manipulations for oligarch corporations will become smaller, but here either checkers or Ukraine 2.0.

              Well, the oligarchs will not raise their own taxes, of course. And that would not be "Ukraine 2.0", our liberals are slowly tightening the screws. They take an example from such recognized luminaries of democracy as Pinochet and Mabuta. If you reread Surkov's article "Putin's Long State", you will see that he is calling for exactly the same thing that Musolini called for at one time.
            2. for
              for 22 December 2020 17: 20
              +4
              Quote: tros
              stupid increase in pensions

              Rising pensions and falling oil prices are driving up consumer prices.
            3. IS-80_RVGK2
              IS-80_RVGK2 22 December 2020 18: 04
              0
              You don't have enough money from your bedside table for a preferential mortgage?
        3. figwam
          figwam 22 December 2020 12: 38
          -9
          In the United States, this is considered the norm.

        4. aglet
          aglet 22 December 2020 12: 40
          +7
          "FREE, it is proposed to give out to the poor"

          are you sure it's free?
          1. nnm
            nnm 22 December 2020 12: 58
            +1
            Yes. But, it is clear that due to our taxes. But for such a case, I personally do not mind.
            1. aglet
              aglet 22 December 2020 13: 10
              +16
              no one will ask you personally. our taxes will improve the health of Gazprom, Rosneft, and personally to the President. He also costs a pretty penny to the budget. Yes, Rosstat has forgotten. will allocate money for a new method of counting the have-nots, in order to reduce their number. and then, for what remains, at the expense of the budget they will buy production waste from the traders at the price of delicacies, and they will start distributing (selling), they have not yet decided, they are not smart. and they will immediately heal. And they will have money to pay for housing and communal services, and they will be able to buy medicines, but what, maybe even buy new pants!
              we have already passed this, more than once
              1. Svarog
                Svarog 22 December 2020 13: 45
                +11
                . it also costs a lot of money to the budget

                It’s not a little modest .. it absorbs one, like the budget of a city of a millionaire, and there is still a staff serving it, where the amount is similar .. and a bunch of parasites in the Duma, sf, pension fund .. and so on .. and this heap has its own service staff .. But for some reason, there is no question of tightening their belts and entering cards into the Duma or Federation Council, although there all the billionaires and salaries might not receive at all ...
              2. Vadim237
                Vadim237 22 December 2020 15: 35
                -2
                Rosstat has only one way of counting the poor - by the official salary and pension.
                1. aglet
                  aglet 22 December 2020 17: 42
                  +3
                  "Rosstat has only one way of counting the poor - by the official salary and pension"
                  there is only one method, but the methods can be different. Again, the problem can be set in different ways. there are options, there are
              3. Boris Chernikov
                Boris Chernikov 23 December 2020 23: 52
                -2
                tongue oh yes, of course Axelbant is very important for the state ... because its 200 maximum taxes per year is so important for the state ... how could Gazprom and Rosneft, who paid a couple of 000 trillion rubles in taxes from their profits
          2. Boris Chernikov
            Boris Chernikov 23 December 2020 23: 50
            -2
            laughing and you and 10 of those who put you pluses ... at least they would study the question
        5. aglet
          aglet 22 December 2020 13: 17
          +5
          "Then you could buy food for yourself only by cards,"
          Don't you remember what products could then be bought with coupons? well, except for vodka and cigarettes? and which ones were sold without coupons? but then the deficit was artificially created, and now too?
        6. Bronekot
          Bronekot 23 December 2020 02: 02
          +1
          This is a shame to the government and the president. And they came up with cards so that the people did not riot. We steal billions from you and you live on cards.
        7. Boris Chernikov
          Boris Chernikov 23 December 2020 23: 49
          0
          And in our country, in principle, at least once were people satisfied? I remember that when the capital was introduced, screeching began about "why not for the first?" and "why so little ?! why not tens of thousands of bucks, I deserve" .. When they introduced for the first, the cries were again about little and more is needed and generally just like that ... So now, at first, they shout about "a lot of poor and "grandmother with a blue skin", and when they proposed a mechanism for solving the problem, they scream about dissatisfaction with the solution .. because they just need a lot of dough and they personally and just like that
      2. Sergej1972
        Sergej1972 22 December 2020 13: 16
        +2
        Aren't you confusing the 90s with the 80s? In the 90s, in a number of regions, coupons were only in 1990-1991. Since 1992, they have been gone.
      3. Boris Chernikov
        Boris Chernikov 23 December 2020 23: 44
        0
        and again you did not understand the principle .. the essence is this .. a conventional pensioner receives a MIR card, they charge 1 rubles, for example, a month .. after which the pensioner can go to the store and buy goods made in Russia, In addition to alcohol and cigarettes, by paying with this money either the entire cost or part of the price. This will help, first of all, the pensioner himself, and secondly, it is a hidden mechanism of subsidizing and supporting domestic producers
        1. d4rkmesa
          d4rkmesa 28 December 2020 08: 41
          0
          Well, they still argue about "made in Russia". It is easier to limit the 10% VAT rate, there will be little non-Russian.
          1. Boris Chernikov
            Boris Chernikov 28 December 2020 11: 12
            0
            no one argues - cards will be introduced only under such a basis - goods that will be subject to the possibility of purchase - must be produced in Russia. Everything. point. no one will be perverted with VAT, because it takes a long time and it is gross to change the tax code for a narrow profile, not to mention the highly probable attempts to manipulate purchases.
      4. d4rkmesa
        d4rkmesa 28 December 2020 08: 39
        +1
        OMG yes you read what it is about. And then, as you read the "coupons", your eyes are bloodshot, and that's it, you don't see anything. It is about distributing "money" to the poor only for food.
    2. WIKI
      WIKI 22 December 2020 12: 16
      +12
      Quote: carstorm 11
      As the author correctly said, the main thing here is how to do it correctly.

      The most correct option is to create well-paid jobs. Otherwise, we will continue to patch holes in the budget of Russians.
      1. carstorm 11
        carstorm 11 22 December 2020 12: 18
        -9
        The poor won't care. More or less. But they will. Especially in times like these.
        1. WIKI
          WIKI 22 December 2020 13: 27
          +4
          Quote: carstorm 11
          The poor won't care

          But the state has the opportunity to reveal his abilities in a person in only one way, either directly to create decent jobs, or to give this opportunity to business. We will have to decide the question of the role in this matter of monopolies, which are part of the political system, which, to put it mildly, stifle business.
          1. Boris Chernikov
            Boris Chernikov 23 December 2020 23: 57
            -1
            shchaz, the state will be able to force a person to work in only one way - in prison, otherwise if a person does not want to work, he will find 50 reasons not to work in style: it’s hard there and it’s hard to go to the other end of the city
        2. New Year day
          New Year day 22 December 2020 14: 25
          +8
          Quote: carstorm 11
          The poor won't care. More or less. But they will. Especially in times like these.

          well-fed poor is not a friend
          1. carstorm 11
            carstorm 11 22 December 2020 14: 48
            -6
            Does this somehow cancel out the fact that they were and will be?
      2. GRIGORIY76
        GRIGORIY76 22 December 2020 12: 35
        +8
        You can't. Wealthy people, when they have a question to survive / not to survive, do not start asking questions and go out to the square. We must not allow the country to appear rich / more or less tolerably living without government handouts, people independent of the government.
      3. Hagen
        Hagen 22 December 2020 12: 56
        -6
        Quote: WIKI
        The most correct option is to create well-paid jobs.

        Well-paid jobs should be attended by well-trained workers who, at least from the school, have taken the volume of knowledge and skills that were offered there.
        Quote: WIKI
        Otherwise, we will continue to patch holes in the budget of Russians.

        It would be better for the Russians to patch up these holes themselves, and the state provides them with all possible opportunities for this.
      4. evgen1221
        evgen1221 22 December 2020 12: 58
        +3
        There are many options for fighting poverty, but they all boil down to building jobs and saturating their own market with their own goods (always in the first place). Plus the most severe control and punishment for disrupting the assigned activities. Yes, they would send the same roads to build or improve cities for a moot. This alone would and always does. But in our country a feudal state is being built, so guest-workers are most important.
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 22 December 2020 15: 40
          0
          Now there are a shortage of Gaster at all construction sites, there are many vacant jobs - but ours do not want to go there, for obvious reasons, the profession is not a prestigious, dangerous, and they do not pay very much, and they do not go there.
          1. evgen1221
            evgen1221 22 December 2020 18: 44
            +4
            Yes, this is a normal profession of a builder. It's just that the contractor sits on the contractor and takes a bite of money from the pie, in the end, either the price for the work below the plinth, or they throw the hard workers. And the final price to the buyer is growing. The system is rotting in construction. The builder himself
      5. Svarog
        Svarog 22 December 2020 13: 46
        +9
        Quote: WIKI
        Quote: carstorm 11
        As the author correctly said, the main thing here is how to do it correctly.

        The most correct option is to create well-paid jobs. Otherwise, we will continue to patch holes in the budget of Russians.

        They promised 25 mil. jobs .. but they fail ..
    3. YOUR
      YOUR 22 December 2020 12: 21
      +15
      Help is reasonable, only where did so many poor come from if we have a stable economy and all hurray hurray hurray. For some reason, the fight against poverty, judging by this article, has turned into the fight against poverty, when a person cannot provide himself with food, and the Government is concerned about the prices of basic products - pasta. This ... there are no words.
      It is not necessary to explain which state is good because it has brought these people to such a state, the same pensioners.
      1. New Year day
        New Year day 22 December 2020 13: 30
        +14
        Quote: YOUR
        only where did so many poor come from if we have a stable economy and all hurray hurray hurray.

        "Hurray" for the cooperative "Lake" and the crooks.
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 22 December 2020 15: 50
          -11%
          And how are Usmanov and the poverty of 20 million people connected, that they work for his offices and he does not pay them, and I very much doubt that these 20 million poor are connected with the work of the remaining 119 billionaires and their companies and factories. Most of the poor in Russia are state employees.
          1. New Year day
            New Year day 22 December 2020 17: 38
            +8
            Quote: Vadim237
            And how are Usmanov and the poverty of 20 million people connected?

            How did the former prisoner become an oligarch and a friend of VVP? Did he honestly steal? - And he stole from these 20 million
            1. YOUR
              YOUR 23 December 2020 09: 33
              +2
              Now I have taken and organized the Honest Sign, ask what it is. So, in short, the marking of goods, barcode. Come on, they will mark it, but only this honest sign belongs to Usmanov, the question arises without consent, lobbying and orders himself, was it possible to shoe all of Russia like this, so that a penny would drip into the pocket of this gentleman with every thing produced, imported and sold, medicine. There is no need to dig factories, or to dig the land, or to build anything, and every citizen of the Russian Federation pays money. Live in pleasure now in London, now in Nice.
              The mind is incomprehensible. There is no such thing in any country.
              1. Vadim237
                Vadim237 23 December 2020 18: 23
                +1
                When did this label appear - and how are the current 20 million poor connected to it? And what does it mean, production does not need to be started, but these stickers themselves appeared out of thin air, they probably need to be done to create databases on goods - so that it would be more difficult for the guys for the production and sale of counterfeit goods, so it is better for the state to put one hundred million to a businessman alone to control the goods or further allow to rip off tens of thousands of underground producers of every leftist a budget for trillions of rubles in uncollected taxes? But all this money is not received by public sector employees and everyone else who lives at the expense of the budget defense industry medicine science and so on.
                1. YOUR
                  YOUR 24 December 2020 03: 00
                  0
                  The marking comes into force from 01.01.21.
                  No databases are created.
                  Individual entrepreneurs and legal entities are simply stripped off. persons and those, in turn, will raise the prices of goods. The rest is your fiction
            2. Vadim237
              Vadim237 23 December 2020 18: 11
              0
              "And he stole just from these 20 million" - Well, of course he stole from the 20 million of the current poor who had nothing to do with him and have no business.
            3. Boris Chernikov
              Boris Chernikov 24 December 2020 08: 52
              -2
              and when he stole packages in a cooperative or when he sold cigarettes?
        2. YOUR
          YOUR 23 December 2020 09: 35
          +1
          I wonder how much he paid for this badge and why
    4. Svarog
      Svarog 22 December 2020 13: 12
      +16
      The state helps them to survive.

      Who the state helps to live and who to survive .. can be seen from the growing number of billionaires .. And what is significant, the progressive tax has not been introduced.
      In general, this is a consequence of 20 years of management ..
      1. carstorm 11
        carstorm 11 22 December 2020 13: 19
        -8
        This is a different topic. Rarely, but with this tax, I agree with you that it should be
    5. New Year day
      New Year day 22 December 2020 13: 19
      +11
      Quote: carstorm 11
      You probably also did not understand that here as a conversation not about restrictions, but on the contrary about help.

      If you want to help, then give people adequate pensions and salaries and they themselves will buy what they want.
      Quote: carstorm 11
      In our school, children and low-income families and large families in the nineties were given coupons for meals for every day.

      so like the Patriotic War ended in the 45th! The country has the world's leading economy! and Cards!
      1. Svarog
        Svarog 22 December 2020 13: 30
        +12
        Quote: Silvestr
        so like the Patriotic War ended in the 45th! The country has the world's leading economy! and Cards!

        Then they fought against an external aggressor .. now there is a war with the people .. the country's leadership is winning, the population is decreasing ..
      2. Lexus
        Lexus 22 December 2020 17: 54
        +3
        Quote: Silvestr
        If you want to help, then give people adequate pensions and salaries and they themselves will buy what they want.

        Dear Sylvester hi,
        they just announced today the possible "dismantling" of the pension savings system.
    6. IS-80_RVGK2
      IS-80_RVGK2 22 December 2020 17: 13
      +6
      You forgot to say that in any - capitalist. You have built a gorgeous system. They shouted how evil the card system was with a bloody scoop, and they themselves built the same system. Only then, for some reason, it was evil, but with a light capitalist present type of good. This is your whole rotten capitalism. Who will starve to death in the presence of a heap of food and make you die of thirst on the shore of the ocean of fresh water. Which nichrome can not adequately dispose of human resources, making a person unnecessary garbage on benefits.
    7. iouris
      iouris 23 December 2020 15: 33
      0
      Quote: carstorm 11
      You probably also did not understand that here as a conversation not about restrictions, but on the contrary about help. In any country there will be poor people.

      Our "poverty" is poverty.
      Return to the past? In the USSR, there was a shortage of some products, and there were no harmful products at all.
  2. marchcat
    marchcat 22 December 2020 11: 54
    +14
    True, they say: if you want to feed a man, give him a fishing rod and not a fish. Economy and industry need to be revived, not benefits should be raised. Although it would not hurt to increase the benefits.
  3. nnm
    nnm 22 December 2020 11: 55
    0
    Why confuse soft with warm? What other return ?! In the 90s, cards were given to everyone also because there was a terrible shortage of food. Now they should be given to the poor !!! To give money to dysfunctional families, often, is a high probability that they will drink away. And giving out products for free, I think, is a great idea. In the USA, beloved by the liberals, there is an absolutely similar system
    1. NDR-791
      NDR-791 22 December 2020 12: 00
      +4
      And giving out products for free, I think, is a great idea.
      Great idea, but it won't. It will be like in the 90s - the state will buy the limit at a fixed price from a conventional entrepreneur. And the grandmother at a fixed price in the store, but at the card rate. The rest is needed in the diet for other money. And no one will give anything for free. A maximum of chowder once a day. And now our homeless people are so fed.
      1. nnm
        nnm 22 December 2020 12: 11
        +2
        Confused again. What the grandmother can buy and now buys from her, no one takes away and does not limit in any way. She will be additionally given a set of products for free. Why are you writing about some kind of soup, where does the homeless have (although, I think, such sets will be put to them) ?! Well, read the text, it's not a new idea. They have been trying to push it for 5 years, but all the money is a pity ...
    2. Snail N9
      Snail N9 22 December 2020 12: 00
      +7
      Excellent, and most importantly, they "raised themselves from their knees" to ration cards .... No, no, we understand, this is only for the "poor" (well, "they did not fit into the market" - it happens ...) , we have - "units" ...
      1. nnm
        nnm 22 December 2020 12: 12
        0
        I'm tired of seeing those who can't just read ... I'll just copy-paste:
        Confused again. What the grandmother can buy and now buys from her, no one takes away and does not limit in any way. She will be additionally given a set of products for free. Why are you writing about some kind of soup, where does the homeless have (although, I think, such sets will be put to them) ?! Well, read the text, it's not a new idea. They have been trying to push it for 5 years, but all the money is a pity ...
        1. Revival
          Revival 22 December 2020 12: 33
          +5
          For those who do not understand:
          It is, in principle, a shame that we have come to a situation in which cards for beggars have become relevant!
          "Great power" .....
          1. nnm
            nnm 22 December 2020 12: 43
            -3
            Colleague, I'm sorry, but I'm already tired of trying to explain what is being commented on without even understanding the question. If you want, you will read the above. It just won't fit the globe, what I read on the forum.
            Essentially, it looks like this:
            1. Give the poor in ADDITIONAL, give out products for FREE.
            2. We: no, this is not an option, let's change the system, steal, disgrace, let's create jobs !!!! Don't give out anything!
            3. Bottom line: the poor continue to go hungry, we continue to shout slogans (often correct) for years. An excellent option and those without food, and the authorities do not care about our cries.
            4. Attention, the question: why is it impossible to start providing products to low-income products and, in parallel, demand changes in the system?
            1. ALARI
              ALARI 22 December 2020 12: 51
              +8
              Are you on the payroll here? It seems that you alone here did not understand that 30 years were wasted if we lived up to the cards AGAIN.
              1. nnm
                nnm 22 December 2020 12: 56
                -6
                Yes, VO pays me with cards for the Internet. Still have questions?
                1. ALARI
                  ALARI 22 December 2020 13: 07
                  +4
                  Consent is non-resistance of the parties. I found out everything I wanted.
              2. carstorm 11
                carstorm 11 22 December 2020 12: 57
                -8
                Yes, just stupidity is sometimes annoying. There are no states without the poor. And it won't. They need help. ALL!!!
              3. Vadim237
                Vadim237 22 December 2020 15: 55
                -5
                Well, if you all these 30 years have lived in vain, then there is nothing to project it on everyone - everyone has their own life, everyone has achieved something or not.
                1. ALARI
                  ALARI 22 December 2020 16: 02
                  0
                  Am I talking about a specific person? I'm talking about the country, if you don't understand. With all their might they wanted to leave and forget how bad a dream the deficit is and that means cards, bam food is not enough for everyone. Although wrong, money to buy.
            2. Revival
              Revival 22 December 2020 13: 16
              +7
              "4. Attention, a question: why is it impossible to start providing products to low-income products right now and simultaneously demand changes in the system?"

              Quite right, better than nothing and urgent.
              But, most importantly, changes in the system.
              And then we come to the conclusion that they will not hear us, no matter how much they "yell".
              I won't go on with the thought.
      2. sergo1914
        sergo1914 22 December 2020 12: 32
        +11
        Quote: Snail N9
        Excellent, and most importantly, they "raised themselves from their knees" to ration cards .... No, no, we understand, this is only for the "poor" (well, "they did not fit into the market" - it happens ...) , we have - "units" ...


        They also compared to me the "bloody tataletary duck", in which Stalin personally shot a billion, with the mega-spiritual super-great Russian, tirelessly rising from her knees to a pain in her groin under the leadership of the wisest politicians who are prevented from doing this only by enemy sanctions and the most talented opposition, neither in By no means feeding from the hands of these wisest politicians.

        PS In case there are suddenly some gifted ones - I will explain: it was all sarcasm.
        1. Uncle lee
          Uncle lee 22 December 2020 15: 13
          0
          Sergei hi
          Quote: sergo1914
          it was all sarcasm

          Thanks for the clarification! And then many have ceased to adequately perceive the reality ...
    3. Gardamir
      Gardamir 22 December 2020 12: 39
      +7
      In the 90s, cards were given to everyone
      Since 1992, the country has entered a liberal, market economy and cards have ceased to be issued.
      As for the free products. Russia pays for the war in Donbass with humanitarian wagons, the same happens in Karabakh, Syria, but not in Russia. In Russia, they showed on TV with delight how food was buried.
    4. evgen1221
      evgen1221 22 December 2020 12: 50
      -1
      And why in the 90s there was not enough money if in 89 there were heaps of money. All rushed to throw loot into dollars en masse.
      1. aglet
        aglet 22 December 2020 13: 33
        +1
        "And why in the 90s there was not enough money at times if in 89 there were heaps of them. Everyone rushed to throw money into dollars en masse."
        but because prices went up incredibly and the economy stopped. so the money ran out, they don't grow on the tree. Now, about the same thing happens, the second wave, so to speak. and dollars were far from everywhere, and not everyone could buy them, not all
        1. evgen1221
          evgen1221 22 December 2020 14: 51
          0
          so what is the cause and what is the effect? At that time, the union was still printing money for itself, and before the reforms, the humpback was completely free of cash dollars.
          1. aglet
            aglet 22 December 2020 17: 54
            0
            "So what is the reason and what is the effect? ​​The union was still printing money for itself and before the reforms, the humpback was quite enough for itself without a cash dollar."
            GorbACH's reforms began in 1985, then their union itself printed, without anyone's permission, and there was enough money for everything, including food. And in the 90s there was no union, the ball was ruled by fucking with accomplices, here then there was neither money nor income. and rubles were printed with the permission of the IMF, as it is now, by the way
    5. Dimide
      Dimide 22 December 2020 13: 01
      0
      I agree with you, the idea is good and deserves to be implemented
    6. Sergej1972
      Sergej1972 22 December 2020 13: 17
      +1
      Not in the 90s, but in the late 80s and early 90s.
    7. New Year day
      New Year day 22 December 2020 13: 32
      +9
      Quote: nnm
      give out products for free

      free cheese in a mousetrap. Entrust the distribution of food to Prigozhin and that's it.
      Prigozhin's company ordered to pay compensation after poisoning in kindergartens
      https://www.interfax.ru/russia/682569
      1. Lexus
        Lexus 22 December 2020 18: 02
        +4
        Now it is clear why the Prigozhin trolls are constantly "carried". laughing
    8. Pashhenko Nikolay
      Pashhenko Nikolay 22 December 2020 16: 07
      0
      An unsuccessful family still spends some minimum on food, on a snack, so to speak. And with a free ration, you can lower your entire small salary on vodka. So, from such help, not prosperous families will only increase the amount of alcohol consumed, and the amount they eat will remain the same.
    9. IS-80_RVGK2
      IS-80_RVGK2 22 December 2020 17: 21
      +6
      Don't you think that something is wrong with this system? That a person should live off his labor, and not on gratuitous benefits? Which corrupt, dull and kill any motivation to do something. That it does not fit in with the market system. What did the patriots of solidarity shout to us at the salary of capital that we are not like the US and we have a special path, but this path is somehow not very different from the rotten capitalist path of the United States? There is nothing good in this system. On the contrary, it is a product of the crisis of capitalism and only exacerbates the situation.
    10. for
      for 22 December 2020 17: 32
      +1
      Quote: nnm
      , - a high probability that they will drink.

      So to give out the salary in food to everyone, otherwise they will suddenly drink.
      1. Lex_is
        Lex_is 22 December 2020 17: 54
        +3
        And the food will be exchanged for vodka and still drunk.

        So the salary is only in coupons for gruel in the dining room, to be sure. And everything else is overkill.
  4. tihonmarine
    tihonmarine 22 December 2020 11: 57
    +9
    Quote: NDR-791
    When the state cannot and does not want to limit the greed of the grabber, it limits the population.

    Capitalism must somehow support the poor. If this is not done, a social explosion will occur, a hungry person has nothing to lose. In the United States, this was understood earlier, if the assistance program was used by 47 million people.
    1. NDR-791
      NDR-791 22 December 2020 12: 11
      +6
      Capitalism must somehow support the poor.
      Capitalism should give work, WORK !!! And pay taxes from this job! So that the grandmother has enough for food and a communal apartment regular pension
      1. sergo1914
        sergo1914 22 December 2020 12: 35
        +4
        Quote: NDR-791
        Capitalism must somehow support the poor.
        Capitalism should give work, WORK !!! And pay taxes from this job! So that the grandmother has enough for food and a communal apartment regular pension


        And capitalism is ready to give work. And pay taxes. Only a sane taxation system is needed. Which feeds the people, and not a handful of bureaucrats and oligarchs on state wages. Which does not kill, but stimulates production in the country.
      2. Yura
        Yura 22 December 2020 13: 15
        +5
        Quote: NDR-791
        Capitalism should give work, WORK !!! And pay taxes from this job!

        Capitalism owes nothing to anyone and cannot give it - it is just a system, a system of economic relations. Work, social guarantees - this is what people should and are obliged to do, the State Duma should pass laws in the interests of its citizens, the government and executive bodies carry them out in the interests of their citizens, all this should be within the framework of the constitution. Capitalism is a system outside of ideology, therefore, in this system, the dense right of the strong and the rich flourishes, the fight against him as with a soulless machine or system is meaningless, it can only be changed. To change, first you need to know for what, for what impeccable system of economic relations? Any other political system is based on economic relations, artificially built economic relations also carry contradictions. To the ideology of these fair economic relations, which we all accept, we still need to grow, everyone. We did not manage to build a socialist society, and then a communist one, for this very reason, there were no normal and fair economic relations between the state and its citizens, for the most part it was a distribution pyramidal system in which these functions were very often performed by soulless, selfish, indifferent people, and some are just grabbers.
      3. New Year day
        New Year day 22 December 2020 13: 33
        +8
        Quote: NDR-791
        WORK !!!

        Adequate salary
        Adequate pensions for pensioners
        1. Darkesstcat
          Darkesstcat 22 December 2020 15: 50
          +6
          What for? The main rule of capitalism, minimum costs, maximum profit. Adequate salary doesn't fit here.
      4. tihonmarine
        tihonmarine 22 December 2020 14: 19
        +2
        Quote: NDR-791
        Capitalism must give work,

        Capitalism, just and should not give "everything is mine, I want to give, I want not." It was under socialism that the law was "who does not work, he does not eat." And if you don’t work in prison, you’ll get stuck under the article "For vagrancy."
        1. napalm
          napalm 28 December 2020 19: 18
          0
          "Capitalism should give work" ??? Gives when it is profitable. It is not profitable, it optimizes production by cutting thousands of people, no matter what. Throws it out into the street, invites strikebreakers. Only socialism brought the work to fruition.
      5. IS-80_RVGK2
        IS-80_RVGK2 22 December 2020 17: 23
        +2
        Wake up and sing. You have been optimized in the process of competitive struggle and pursuit of profit.
  5. BIABIA
    BIABIA 22 December 2020 11: 59
    +7
    Officials are used to stealing. If he stole, for example, in millions, he would never agree to steal in thousands. It's simple.
    1. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 22 December 2020 14: 23
      0
      Quote: BIABIA
      If he stole, for example, in millions, he would never agree to steal in thousands.

      Yeah, in Tomsk, for the third consecutive governor in prison.
      Under I.V. Stalin's bureaucracy reached its limits. The decision was simple; in 1937, he set some bureaucrats against others led by the Yezhovs. They coped with the bureaucracy, but with great sacrifices.
  6. aleksejkabanets
    aleksejkabanets 22 December 2020 12: 03
    +9
    Quote: NDR-791
    Let's be honest, even to ourselves. When the state cannot and does not want to limit the greed of the grabber, it limits the population. And the poor there or all the polls are particulars.

    This is exactly the case. You might think the war years. Have survived.
  7. Ross xnumx
    Ross xnumx 22 December 2020 13: 29
    +7
    Quote: NDR-791
    Let's be honest, even to ourselves. When the state cannot and does not want to limit the greed of the grabber, it limits the population.

    good
    And also, when people in Russia talk about food ration cards, it only speaks of the powerlessness of the authorities. You have rightly noticed: who don’t pocket food cards, and who don’t pocket the increase in personal income tax ...
  8. New Year day
    New Year day 22 December 2020 13: 59
    +6
    Quote: NDR-791
    The very idea of ​​introducing cards in a situation when the country is going through a difficult period is not something unusual both for Russia and for the rest of the world, which we used to call “developed” or “civilized”.
    Let's be honest, even to ourselves. When the state cannot and does not want to limit the greed of the grabber, it limits the population


    Chernomyrdin is resting! The result of accelerations and jerks!
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 22 December 2020 16: 01
      -2
      The photographs, as well as the videos of those years, however, were ostentatious - the deficit in the USSR did not disappear anywhere, but on the contrary, the population increased from year to year, the amount of money on hand was growing, the same - the production did not keep pace with the curve the distribution system added.
  • ximkim
    ximkim 22 December 2020 11: 50
    +10
    Shame. And you can make it so that such measures and views were not even thought of? No campaign!
    1. Alekseev
      Alekseev 22 December 2020 11: 56
      +6
      Quote: ximkim
      Shame, but you can make

      No one offered any cards. They practice, you know, puns. laughing
      we are talking about issuing coupons to the poor for which you can get free bread, meat, pasta, etc., but not vodka and tobacco, sir.
      What is better than giving out money, I think, is clear. it is harder to waste money without thinking about the children, and the allocations for the purchase of food to provide coupons will go to agricultural producers.
      1. NDR-791
        NDR-791 22 December 2020 12: 04
        +7
        we are talking about issuing coupons to the poor for which you can get free bread, meat, pasta, etc., but not vodka and tobacco, sir.
        Unfortunately, it will not work out that way. I cite an example from my own experience - my cousin's brother almost deprived of vodka, they kicked everyone out of work (even from the janitors). They fed the sick person, canned food there, when the legs, etc. Canned food ran out in the first place, and he still asked. So he poured those canned food into the bunch - a snack from him, you know.
        1. ximkim
          ximkim 22 December 2020 12: 10
          +3
          Vodka has nothing to do with it, there is time to drink vodka. The very moment - why does a person spend time and money (snack) on drinking? The whole root of anger is in this.
      2. apro
        apro 22 December 2020 12: 07
        +6
        Quote: Alekseev
        No one offered any cards.

        These are not ours, not market methods.
        Where is the life-giving hand of the market ???
        1. New Year day
          New Year day 22 December 2020 13: 35
          +12
          Quote: apro
          Where is the life-giving hand of the market ???

          judging by the fact that 90% of assets in Russia belong to 10% of the population - the hand is where it is needed.
      3. Roman070280
        Roman070280 22 December 2020 13: 43
        +1
        it is about issuing coupons to the poor for which is free you can get bread, meat, pasta, etc., but not vodka and tobacco, sir.


        First, the poor .. and then everyone else ..
        Slaves on the construction of the Egyptian pyramids were also fed for free ..))
      4. New Year day
        New Year day 22 December 2020 14: 14
        +3
        Quote: Alekseev
        we are talking about issuing coupons to the poor for which you can get bread, meat, pasta and



        and what is it called? The same eggs, only in profile
    2. nnm
      nnm 22 December 2020 11: 57
      -8
      There are suggestions on how to immediately make everyone rich, how to get rid of dysfunctional, drinking families, parasites? I have no such panacea at once ... but no matter what, we must support those who find it difficult, especially considering that such families have children. What are you dissatisfied with in essence? That the state will start helping them with food?
      1. NDR-791
        NDR-791 22 December 2020 12: 13
        +11
        What are you dissatisfied with in essence? That the state will start helping them with food?
        Exactly! The state should provide jobs, not snacks !!!
        1. nnm
          nnm 22 December 2020 12: 19
          -8
          Once again .... do you know a way to force drinking families to stop drinking, to force parasites to work, to instantly raise pensions several times, to return fathers who have run away from them to families with children, etc.? I dont know. But what's wrong with the fact that, in addition to the funds that these people have, in addition to giving out products for free? It is more difficult to drink them, it is more likely that they will reach a child in such a family than if you give out money. Or do you have a real recipe for how to immediately solve the problem of low income? Only with numbers and calculations, and not general words about barricades, grains and Chubais .... because you can shout about Miller's salary for many years, and this will not add much money to a pensioner. And what's wrong if, while we shake the air, give the same grandmother an ADDITIONAL food set?
          1. NDR-791
            NDR-791 22 December 2020 12: 25
            +8
            .... you know a way to make drinking families stop drinking, make parasites to work
            I’ll even tell you more - and you know this way !!! ITL, and everything worked fine. So after all, now we have freedom, nizzya, it is not tolerant to take a drunk by the gills. And not to sit on bunks there, but like Roosevelt's in the Great Depression - to build roads. In short, all this has already happened, and there are recipes and they work, those recipes
            1. nnm
              nnm 22 December 2020 12: 30
              -6
              That's what I'm talking about - apart from the eternal discussion of "who is to blame" and "what to do", we are real, can we change something right now? No. And that while we, like pugs, bark at the caravan, should the poorer fellow citizens wait for an era of equality and justice? No, they are bored to live here and now. And let them get at least some additional products, and you can deal with the system in parallel
              1. NDR-791
                NDR-791 22 December 2020 12: 37
                +5
                let them get at least some additional products, and you can deal with the system in parallel
                Your words would go to the ears of anyone ... But our Russian practice shows that there is nothing more permanent than temporary. Sadness, of course, but it is. Therefore, the battle is here on this topic, that clearly the wrong measures are being taken. Moreover, I believe that this measure was five years late. In 2009, it was not so depressive, but in our city those who lost their jobs were promptly redirected to construction sites and utilities. And it went much more useful.
              2. Roman070280
                Roman070280 22 December 2020 13: 49
                +3
                we really, right now, can we change something? No

                Why not??
                And when can we?

                And that while we, like pugs, bark at the caravan, should the poorer fellow citizens wait for an era of equality and justice?

                Giving coupons to the hungry is what a pug barks at the caravan ..

                No, they are bored to live here and now.

                Instead, they are offered to survive on coupons under the pretext that there is no other solution in the great country ..))
          2. Ua3qhp
            Ua3qhp 22 December 2020 12: 38
            -2
            I dont know. But what's wrong with the fact that, in addition to the funds that these people have, in addition to giving out products for free? It's harder to drink them

            Those. offering to give out snacks for free? The rest then you can safely drink.
            1. nnm
              nnm 22 December 2020 12: 46
              -7
              Like, alcoholics, gambling addicts, parasites, drug addicts are such gourmets that they bother so much about the snack that they don't start drinking until the table is full. Yes, even if 50% of the set reaches the child in the family, this is already good, he will have at least something to eat today.
              1. d4rkmesa
                d4rkmesa 28 December 2020 08: 53
                +1
                It is useless to convince that half of them have only slogans in their heads, in the style of "land to the peasants", "steal less", etc., but cards - no, no, they don't need such socialism. In fact, the people are angry and are not inclined to help the poor, that is the reason. And an additional couple of thousand for food conditional "drunks" and "gypsies" they like a knife to their hearts.
          3. New Year day
            New Year day 22 December 2020 14: 19
            +8
            Quote: nnm
            Or do you have a real recipe for how to instantly solve the problem of low income?

            1. less to steal. By the number of billionaires, Russia is in 5th place, with 99 billionaires. And there is no need to claim that all this is earned by honest labor.
            2.elimination of social inequality in the state
            3. "25 million new jobs" - forgot Putin's promise?
            4. adequate salary
            5.Adequate pension
            6.do not fund foreign countries
          4. ycuce234-san
            ycuce234-san 22 December 2020 15: 52
            +2
            It is possible, before the economy normalizes, to stop taxing the monthly increase in profits from the sale of food products to the population. Not all profits, but profit growth per month. Similarly - to introduce incentives for capital investments (investors pay taxes from them) in the production and sale of food and on income from newly commissioned capacities of the food industry and agriculture.
            Then the business will become more active in reducing costs and increasing food production; prices, at least, will almost stop rising.
            1. d4rkmesa
              d4rkmesa 28 December 2020 08: 59
              0
              My director will transfer all non-taxable profit gains to his Swiss account, one way or another. Benefits are possible only in fixed assets, investments. In many sectors, there is now excess production capacity - the people simply cannot afford the food industry, in the same quantities. People also switched to basic products in some places - i.e. processed products are not in demand without substantial discounts.
              1. ycuce234-san
                ycuce234-san 28 December 2020 13: 42
                0
                Nobody thought to cancel the taxation of money transfers to foreign accounts of your director ...
                Agricultural lands are abandoned - there are about 40 million hectares, and if there was a real food problem, they would be urgently put into circulation right now: they would cut the forest with tractor cutters, treat them with granular fertilizers in the snow and reclaim them with lime granules, supply and drain water. Until spring, the time for the preparation of the land. You can have time to prepare an increased harvest and buy it abroad, somewhere in the Southern Hemisphere, for example, where it is summer season, reserve until autumn. Therefore, rather, the real problem is not a shortage of food, but "buckwheat panics" and fuss over the juicy rate of profit in the distribution and trade of food.
                By the way - the benefits for mechanical engineering that produce kitchen tools, dishes, multicooker, ovens, etc. for self-food processing - also make sense.
                Although, of course, some shoals will still be noticeable - for example, sunflower seeds were exported faster than they managed to cover the possibility of export, and as a result, oil next year in retail will be about 200 rubles / liter, but this is a particular example.
      2. ximkim
        ximkim 22 December 2020 12: 22
        -2
        The proposal to make everyone rich and get rid of laziness has not yet been in the news. Why could a situation happen when the state is forced to help by distributing food? Why do people push themselves to get the bare minimum? It's about people and the state, or rather in the country
        1. Ross xnumx
          Ross xnumx 22 December 2020 13: 35
          +11
          Quote: ximkim
          The proposal to make everyone rich and get rid of laziness was not in the news yet.

          This is true, but it was:
          1. ximkim
            ximkim 22 December 2020 13: 41
            +7
            It's called fairy tales bully
      3. Roman070280
        Roman070280 22 December 2020 13: 47
        +3
        There are suggestions as soon make everyone richAs get rid of dysfunctional, drinking families, parasites?

        Once again ... you know a way to get drinking families to stop drinking, to make parasites work,


        What nonsense ??
        And here - to make everyone rich (get rid of the poverty that our state breeds), and some drinkers ??
        Where is there in the article generally said about drunks ?? They don't need coupons, but treatment ..
      4. Svarog
        Svarog 22 December 2020 13: 57
        +10
        Quote: nnm
        There are suggestions on how to make everyone rich at once,

        You don't need to make everyone rich, you need to avoid beggars. To do this, it is not necessary to reinvent the wheel .. it is enough to introduce a progressive taxation scale, prohibit the export of money over the hill and force this money to be invested in the development of industry, pharmaceuticals and electronics.
        Further, to curtail the appetites of billionaire officials, Duma members and Federation Council .. and of course the guarantor ..
        Even these simple steps will make a big difference.
        Then to monopolize the entire oil and gas industry, alcohol production .. the largest enterprises for the processing of natural resources ..
        This measure will make it possible to pay pensions at 24 t rubles ... and not raise the retirement age ... and in total, 20% of the country's citizens will get out of poverty.
        1. Ronald Reagan
          Ronald Reagan 22 December 2020 14: 21
          -6
          Yes, the entire working population will sacrifice everything for the satisfying life of the lumpen. laughing
          1. Svarog
            Svarog 22 December 2020 14: 22
            +6
            Quote: Ronald Reagan
            Yes, the entire working population will sacrifice everything for the satisfying life of the lumpen. laughing

            Than everyone? There is no talk about the working population in my commentary ... I talk about parasites.
        2. Ross xnumx
          Ross xnumx 22 December 2020 15: 03
          +5
          Quote: Svarog
          It is not necessary to make everyone rich, it is necessary that there are no beggars.

          good
          Quote: Roman070280
          Where is there in the article generally said about drunks ?? They don't need coupons, but treatment ..

          yes
          I have already said that the right thoughts are in the minds of most site visitors.
  • Sancho_SP
    Sancho_SP 22 December 2020 11: 50
    +3
    In America, this measure of support for farmers used to be. It was American food that was handed out to the poor, which was bought from farmers at a higher price than market prices for budget money.

    And about the nonsense with "did not spend on alcohol" there is an old anecdote:

    - Dad, dad, vodka has risen in price, will you drink less now?
    - No, son, now you will eat less.

    There will be no problem exchanging a box of cereal for a bottle in the same general store where cereals are given out.

    Conclusion: don't make a head, raise your benefits.
    1. Bolt cutter
      Bolt cutter 22 December 2020 12: 30
      0
      It was American food that was handed out to the poor, which was bought from farmers at a higher price than market prices for budget money.
      Thanks to a cunning lobbyist from Wisconsin, this was not a very good quality cheese there, which the statesmen began to call Government cheese or ghetto cheese. laughing .
      1. Sancho_SP
        Sancho_SP 22 December 2020 13: 16
        +1
        And even if it's cheese. Here it is important to separate the cards, without which nothing can be bought at all, and coupons, for which you can get free of charge if you can buy for money too.
        1. Bolt cutter
          Bolt cutter 22 December 2020 13: 18
          0
          coupons for which you can get free
          In this case, it is about these coupons.
          1. Sancho_SP
            Sancho_SP 22 December 2020 13: 22
            +2
            Then this is pure corruption. It is more efficient to distribute money.
            1. Bolt cutter
              Bolt cutter 22 December 2020 13: 27
              -1
              It is important to understand that additional product support will be provided by domestic products to support their producers. And the distribution of money is a dead number. (State support for breweries wassat )
              1. Sancho_SP
                Sancho_SP 22 December 2020 13: 28
                0
                If the money goes to beer, then this support was not particularly needed. Hand out more carefully.
                1. Bolt cutter
                  Bolt cutter 22 December 2020 13: 33
                  0
                  You can't keep track of everyone. And you also need to support your producers.
                  1. Sancho_SP
                    Sancho_SP 22 December 2020 13: 34
                    0
                    Well, taxes to lower than to fence schemes.
                    1. Bolt cutter
                      Bolt cutter 22 December 2020 13: 35
                      0
                      And what should the state live for?
                      1. Sancho_SP
                        Sancho_SP 22 December 2020 13: 38
                        0
                        On what you plan to support manufacturers.

                        Otherwise, the consumer will pay for it by raising prices.
            2. aglet
              aglet 22 December 2020 13: 37
              +1
              "Then this is pure corruption. It is more efficient to distribute money."
              No way! inflation will rise!
              1. Sancho_SP
                Sancho_SP 22 December 2020 13: 39
                0
                And if you buy products at an overpriced price and give them away for free, inflation will not rise?
                1. aglet
                  aglet 22 December 2020 14: 24
                  +1
                  "And if you buy products at an overpriced price and give them away for free, will inflation not rise?"
                  Of course not. According to Naibulina, Siluyanov and the President personally, inflation grows only when people's wages rise. and, for free, nothing happens, especially now in our country. everything will be paid for, and more than if just bought.
                  1. Sancho_SP
                    Sancho_SP 22 December 2020 14: 37
                    0
                    Well, what's wrong with that? When the salary rises, and the same amount of work is expelled, it is inflation. When the salary rises for someone who does not produce anything (military, official, cop), this is inflation.
  • tihonmarine
    tihonmarine 22 December 2020 11: 53
    +1
    True, they planned to carry out transfers to "specially opened accounts" there. But this is where the particulars and details begin, in which you know who can hide ...
    The same firms and persons as in insurance medicine.
  • ALARI
    ALARI 22 December 2020 11: 54
    +6
    What this buffoon PZh has brought the planet to! And if you do not mischief, then he can sell food abroad only after he has provided his population at an affordable price. And no cards are needed.
    1. Sancho_SP
      Sancho_SP 22 December 2020 13: 16
      0
      And who exactly should do it? Well, here's a specific farmer?
      1. ALARI
        ALARI 22 December 2020 13: 23
        +5
        State, our government has such a wonderful tool as export customs duties. Adjust export duties, and selling in your home country will be more profitable than driving over the hill.
        1. Sancho_SP
          Sancho_SP 22 December 2020 13: 24
          0
          Well, you understand that someone will pay for this? Either we, consumers, buying at a higher price, or farmers, selling at a lower price. Whom are we dispossessing of?)
          1. ALARI
            ALARI 22 December 2020 13: 40
            +3
            I don’t understand. You speak as if there are only population and farmers. And this is not so: the state-population-farmers-intermediaries. It is not necessary to deprive anyone of possessions, but someone needs to reduce their appetites. The 17th also began with the inability to buy groceries. You can put up with the lack of a new iPhone, but with an empty stomach, no.
            1. Sancho_SP
              Sancho_SP 22 December 2020 13: 44
              0
              And only so it is. Even less: there are manufacturers and intermediaries. They are consumers at the same time. Whom do we reduce appetites for?

              By introducing export duties, you will not change world prices, which means that farmers will have to sell cheaper, so that the market would buy, taking into account the duties. But the state (mediator, parasite) will receive money in the form of these duties. Are you sure this is true?)
              1. ALARI
                ALARI 22 December 2020 14: 04
                +1
                If you export less, then world prices will go up (this is the answer to the fact that world prices will not change). Which market? If the world, then I don't care at what price they will buy in Asia, Africa, Europe. If our market, then duties do not need to be taken into account, duties are not imposed on domestic consumption. If the duties are protective, then you will not willingly have to sell within the country, if there is a lot of goods, then the price is dictated not by the seller, but by the buyer. This is called the market. And now we have cartels and a conspiracy, and the state has a share, or it doesn't care what is worse.
                1. Sancho_SP
                  Sancho_SP 22 December 2020 14: 10
                  0
                  There are many goods on the world market. The disappearance of Russian wheat from it will not significantly affect prices. But on the domestic market, prices will collapse. Yes, the consumer will buy bread cheaper this year. But next time the farmers will go broke and we will again shamefully import the Canadian one.

                  Once again, parasites are not farmers whom you want to curtail appetites with your duties.
                  1. ALARI
                    ALARI 22 December 2020 14: 36
                    -1
                    Is it the state + intermediaries? Ish where you swung, at the scrapbearers. So you are right in our country, raise export tariffs, lower the price of raw materials, the cost of the final product will only grow (although for some reason this works in other countries). Only now I want to look at prices after April 1, 2021, when there was a freeze instead of regulation. And we will import anyway, only substitutes, we will push normal food to them, and we will have the remnants of processing, with such a policy to keep prices down.
                    1. Sancho_SP
                      Sancho_SP 22 December 2020 14: 39
                      0
                      I do not quite understand what kind of surrogates you are talking about.

                      Chicken, meat, cereals, potatoes, vegetables - all of this is mainly produced in Russia and others are usually not. What kind of food are we talking about? About delicacies?
                      1. ALARI
                        ALARI 22 December 2020 14: 58
                        +1
                        Cereals, butter, meat, are these goods more expensive on the world market than ours? And food is always in short supply. It is more profitable to sell there. And we are substitutes from there, we still need to feed the population. Remember the legs of a bush in the 90s, but where did all our meat go? According to statistics, we only took the lead in chicken meat compared to the 90s. Or again, apart from galoshes, the USSR produced nothing.
                      2. Sancho_SP
                        Sancho_SP 22 December 2020 15: 01
                        -3
                        Well, you tell me by examples where those surrogates are. Well, an hour ago I was in the store, I looked specifically: ALL the goods I bought today, except for tangerines, are made in Russia and are quite natural. Where to look for surrogates?
                      3. ALARI
                        ALARI 22 December 2020 15: 13
                        +3
                        Palm tree oil replacement, soy protein replacement of animal protein, in sausage instead of meat 1, 2 grades of trimming, skin, liver + chemistry to imitate taste, smell, consistency. Fish pumped with hormones or frostbite last year. Bread that crumbles the next day. They just got used to many products, because they forgot the taste of the normal ones. This is what surrogates are.
                      4. Nastia makarova
                        Nastia makarova 23 December 2020 08: 43
                        -4
                        buy expensive and high quality
                      5. ALARI
                        ALARI 23 December 2020 09: 03
                        -1
                        Advice from a row: live well and richly. Or when there was the USSR, why don't you drive a Mercedes if you don't like Lada. Thanks for the advice, you have discovered something new and unknown for me. Thank you very much.
                    2. Sancho_SP
                      Sancho_SP 23 December 2020 08: 56
                      +2
                      Let's take it in parts:

                      It's even a shame for the fish. As a participant in equipping and launching several trout farms, I completely disagree. Another thing is that our fish is expensive in relation to meat - yes.

                      35 varieties of bread in the store. What, that's all bad? I just don't eat it too much, except that sometimes I buy round tandoor cakes from my Central Asian friends. Those cakes are very good. And yes, the next day the American square sandwich bread does not crumble and is stored for half a year, which is ironic.

                      Well, the sausage ... oh, this sausage. The phrase “sausage emigration” appeared for a reason, and not even yesterday. But even the sausage is different. And from pure meat, and without meat in general, and from paper, and from anything. Obviously, I can find a lot of varieties of high quality, you are not less than low quality.


                      The only argument I cannot argue with is that bad ready-made (!) Food is cheaper than good food. But this, in my opinion, is obvious.
                    3. ALARI
                      ALARI 23 December 2020 09: 41
                      0
                      I understand that in any situation you can find a positive one; during execution, the fourth person always envies the one who is simply chopped off.
                    4. Sancho_SP
                      Sancho_SP 23 December 2020 10: 17
                      0
                      So where did we start? Beggars have no problem of hunger. There are problems of a normal life for those who work and earn money.
                    5. ALARI
                      ALARI 23 December 2020 11: 30
                      0
                      You are right here. But the quality of life is slowly going down for both the poor and the working people. the trend is not good.
  • three
    three 22 December 2020 13: 43
    0
    State tools are available from the state. officials, but ours are all by inheritance and nepotism. About duties, excise taxes, they have not heard
  • apro
    apro 22 December 2020 11: 55
    +12
    This is a breakthrough ... as the president cares about the people. This is a new skrepa. Power and the people in one impulse .. overcome the difficulties .. that have created ... who?
  • Andre___86
    Andre___86 22 December 2020 11: 56
    +9
    Now everyone will write off the so-called pandemic: both poverty and hunger ...
  • ximkim
    ximkim 22 December 2020 12: 04
    +1
    Quote: Alekseev
    Quote: ximkim
    Shame, but you can make

    No one offered any cards. They practice, you know, puns. laughing
    we are talking about issuing coupons to the poor for which you can get free bread, meat, pasta, etc., but not vodka and tobacco, sir.
    What is better than giving out money, I think, is clear. it is harder to waste money without thinking about the children, and the allocations for the purchase of food to provide coupons will go to agricultural producers.

    They are already solving problems with tobacco - they shoot in the street. And about money and wordplay, it turns out - there are problems and there are words for problems. laughing
  • for
    for 22 December 2020 12: 07
    +7
    I wish the author to eat food issued on coupons. Again they will create a whole crowd of parasites for the distribution of coupons (cards). And they will learn to steal from cards.
  • tank66
    tank66 22 December 2020 12: 08
    +3
    1-as tyrili and will be-in the social security post will be introduced, relatives will be imprisoned, they will buy under coupons for kickbacks.
    But 2- at least someone, at least a little less in the stomach will grumble. The budget does not impoverish. One "cosmodrome builder" / conditionally / all the pennies of the country with sunflower oil for a five-year period would provide, if he was caught in time ... - for any kipesh with coupons ... Although the trend is not healthy No.
    1. apro
      apro 22 December 2020 12: 14
      +1
      Quote: tank66
      1-as tyrili and will be-in the social security post will be introduced, relatives will be imprisoned, they will buy under coupons for kickbacks.
      But 2 - at least someone, at least a little less in the stomach will growl.

      Why did you disclose the wise scheme? How will people do business now?
    2. nnm
      nnm 22 December 2020 12: 22
      -7
      Come on, stop ... the 21st century is in the yard and very quickly they will create an electronic database and will issue products on it. There is nothing difficult about this. But the fact that they will steal on the purchases of these products (their cost will certainly be subsidized), the sellers lie in the reports - this, yes. But only then you need to deal with this, first you need to think about what the products would reach the recipients. And checking these funds will not be at all difficult.
      1. Sancho_SP
        Sancho_SP 22 December 2020 13: 18
        +1
        Why think about it? Products reach everyone perfectly from the store.
  • alexey alexeyev_2
    alexey alexeyev_2 22 December 2020 12: 20
    0
    We wanted the best, but it will turn out as always. Shoot a couple of grabbers .. and preferably live
    1. New Year day
      New Year day 22 December 2020 13: 36
      +1
      Quote: Aleksey Alekseev_2
      Shoot a couple of grabbers .. and preferably live

      so who controls food in the country? Elite. Do you want Putin to shoot his own people? - "We're not leaving ours!"
  • nikvic46
    nikvic46 22 December 2020 12: 23
    +1
    During this terrible pandemic, of course, there is a desire to help poor people, but besides this desire there is a desire to help small and medium-sized businesses. These types of businesses were supposed to be helped by insurance companies. If you correctly dispose of this offer, then of course there will be help. From tsarist times, and even in Soviet times, there were state-owned stores where food was much cheaper. There was a desire. You can also get rid of the homeless, the unemployed. All of them must do business.
    1. Sancho_SP
      Sancho_SP 22 December 2020 13: 20
      -6
      It doesn't make sense now. Food is now almost as available as water and air.

      Homeless people and the unemployed do not want to work on the proposed conditions, but cannot.
      1. three
        three 22 December 2020 13: 38
        +3
        Dexterity! Well, give me a job! Better go at least once to the current social security, you are in demand, our Muscovite.
        1. Sancho_SP
          Sancho_SP 22 December 2020 13: 41
          -1
          So you are welcome to the labor exchange) What, don't you want to work for 16 thousand? So I didn't want to when I was there.
      2. New Year day
        New Year day 22 December 2020 14: 22
        +5
        Quote: Sancho_SP
        Homeless people and the unemployed do not want to work on the proposed conditions, but cannot.

        what about children? And the rest? Unemployment is the fault of the state, not of the individual
        In Russia, 26% of children live in families with incomes below the subsistence level, indicated in a study by Rosstat.
        ttps://www.rbc.ru/economics/07/08/2019/5d4985b39a79472d5365f1fd
        Rosstat: the number of poor Russians increased in the second quarter of 2020 to 19,9 million
        According to the department, the number of citizens with incomes below the subsistence level is 13,5% of the country's population.

        https://tass.ru/ekonomika/9498117
        1. Sancho_SP
          Sancho_SP 22 December 2020 14: 35
          -4
          And what about the children? Children are an extension of their parents. Why are parents beggars? And who are the others?

          Once again, I am not saying that there are no poor people in Russia. I say that food (in calories) is now available to everyone and hunger is impossible.
          1. New Year day
            New Year day 22 December 2020 14: 52
            +5
            Quote: Sancho_SP
            I say that food (in calories) is now available to everyone and hunger is impossible.

            1. Sancho_SP
              Sancho_SP 22 December 2020 14: 54
              -3
              Well? Are pensioners FASTING, or do they still have problems with housing and communal services, clothing or luxury goods?
            2. Vadim237
              Vadim237 23 December 2020 18: 27
              -1
              According to the table, how much in 1990 they ate the same amount and now they eat - no hunger is observed.
          2. Ross xnumx
            Ross xnumx 22 December 2020 15: 12
            +5
            Quote: Sancho_SP
            I say that food (in calories) is now available to everyone and hunger is impossible.

            Here one also spoke about high-calorie foods:

            She finished badly ... crying
            1. Sancho_SP
              Sancho_SP 22 December 2020 15: 14
              -2
              And I'm not an official, I can.
  • Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
    Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 22 December 2020 12: 25
    -2
    I am in favor of distributing Internet coupons to Kharaluzhny and Samsonov. laughing
    1. sergo1914
      sergo1914 22 December 2020 12: 40
      +2
      Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      I am in favor of distributing Internet coupons to Kharaluzhny and Samsonov. laughing


      Through social security. Monthly. According to the application. With the provision of a photocopy of SNILS.
  • Revival
    Revival 22 December 2020 12: 26
    +5
    That is, I correctly understood the idea of ​​the article, that a wise government in terms of consequences for the country and the people is equal to the results of the World War !?
    And if so, is it a breakthrough, getting off your knees, a success, or a snatch?
    1. aglet
      aglet 22 December 2020 12: 52
      +1
      "And if so, is it a breakthrough, getting off your knees, a success or a snatch?"
      tse peremoga, definitely
  • Igor Tikhomirov
    Igor Tikhomirov 22 December 2020 12: 26
    +1
    Any card system is a burden on the budget. That is, the burden of costs will fall on workers in the form of higher prices. Dot.
    1. depressant
      depressant 22 December 2020 15: 10
      +4
      Igor, the rise in prices is a matter of course. But the program to help the poor is separate. According to economists, it will require 4,7 trillion rubles next year. But there is no such money in the budget. Tax collection in 2020 dropped significantly compared to 2019. Therefore, according to the testimony of the central press, at the moment the Federation Council is discussing the issue of increasing the income tax of those individuals who receive a salary of over 50 thousand rubles. In addition to the increase in personal income tax, it is also planned to increase the VAT. It turns out that the less poor will share with the poorer, and in the interval between them, as usual, the rich are additionally fed by the theft of collected funds. I have no doubt that everything will be so. Well, Gazprom will also improve its always unprofitable business, and others.
  • Virus-free crown
    Virus-free crown 22 December 2020 12: 31
    +4
    In the United States, in the spring and summer of this year, in the midst of the first wave of the pandemic, they organized food distribution points for the poor - you just stupidly drive up in your car and they give you rations for a week in advance, you just need to show your driver's license ... We are not that rich country, so the idea with a card set of products - great idea! A lot of people have already lost their jobs or incomes have dropped dramatically ... so I'm in favor !!! good
  • Sahalinets
    Sahalinets 22 December 2020 12: 32
    -1
    Well, there are food stamps in the States. And formally, you can't buy booze and stuff on them. But in fact they are exchanged for money with a small discount and forward for smoke, beer, and what is heavier.
    1. d4rkmesa
      d4rkmesa 28 December 2020 09: 04
      0
      Now there are electronic cards in many states, it is no longer so easy to exchange.
  • martin-159
    martin-159 22 December 2020 12: 37
    +5
    It seems to me that as soon as coupons are introduced, the prices of these products will instantly jump.
  • Ros 56
    Ros 56 22 December 2020 12: 38
    +6
    And the hucksters, as usual, will sell stale bullshit on these cards. Not everything is as simple as it seems at first glance. negative
    1. three
      three 22 December 2020 13: 36
      0
      Yes, it was all already, passed, in our city social shops (stalls) still remain in some places ..
  • iouris
    iouris 22 December 2020 12: 41
    0
    Many run the risk of becoming "have-nots" because world food prices will rise sharply due to a number of objective (and "subjective") reasons. Price surcharges (especially for meat) will be introduced for "harm to the environment" (cows are declared to be almost the main source of CO2). Rising world food prices will lead to an increase in exports of grain and other products and to a decrease in opportunities for food imports.
  • evgen1221
    evgen1221 22 December 2020 12: 41
    +3
    Not so long ago I was talking about the introduction of cards for products that, according to the mantras of the liberals, were declared the horror of communism and, in principle, are not possible in the capitalist country. Vangoval with a certain amount of irony. But it turns out that it is possible for ours, though I didn’t think that it would be necessary so quickly)))) Now I wang that this is implemented through the traffic light network and for sure it will not even come close to everyone in need due to a lot of inquiries and red tape. In general, the need for cards is due to the inability to regulate the market and unwillingness to use power to limit the appetites of sellers. It’s easier for them to go with the flow - they’ve sailed before the cards. And they will introduce them not only to the poor, of whom the number is growing, but with such a pace and quality of guidance we will also reach digital workdays soon.
    1. Virus-free crown
      Virus-free crown 22 December 2020 12: 53
      +3
      Quote: evgen1221
      ... We will soon reach digital workdays with such a pace and quality of leadership.


      I don’t know how throughout Russia, but in Moscow, “digital workdays” have already been introduced wassat
      Forcibly, 30 percent of each company was sent to work remotely from home, and from the management of the companies they were required to provide data on such employees, starting with the phone number and ending with the ticket number or car number - so that, therefore, to control that employees work without leaving home) )) and this is not bullshit - these are the realities of Moscow, the capital of our Motherland)))
      1. evgen1221
        evgen1221 22 December 2020 13: 03
        +4
        Well, in Moscow they always test something new. Wait a look, improve and polish the law on spikelets. The main thing will be on TV broadcast that without guest workers the country will bend))))
        1. Virus-free crown
          Virus-free crown 22 December 2020 13: 25
          -3
          Quote: evgen1221
          Well, in Moscow they always test something new. Wait a look, improve and polish the law on spikelets. The main thing will be on TV broadcast that without guest workers the country will bend))))

          Without guest workers, Russia will definitely bend))) Well, who will go, for example, to the same janitors for a salary of 25 thousand rubles, of which half must be brought to the Administration for the very fact of working as a janitor? am
          Regardless of any difficulties, even the most "drunkard" of Russians "lives in chocolate" - he is a citizen of the Russian Federation, and he does not need to renew his "license" to work in Russia every six months ... This is what our anti-people state uses .. ...
          In general, for example, I forgot when you call a Yandex taxi - a citizen of the Russian Federation is driving ...
          8 out of 10 employees of our local Pyaterochka are not citizens of the Russian Federation ...
          An Azerbaijani shaves my beard ... a Georgian woman cuts my hair ... my favorite local store in the country - there is an Armenian wife, an Azerbaijani husband ... and so on and so on))))))))
          1. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 22 December 2020 14: 27
            +7
            Quote: Corona without virus
            In general, for example, I forgot when you call a Yandex taxi - a citizen of the Russian Federation is driving ...
            8 out of 10 employees of our local Pyaterochka are not citizens of the Russian Federation ...
            An Azerbaijani shaves my beard ... a Georgian woman cuts my hair ... my favorite local store in the country - there is an Armenian wife, an Azerbaijani husband ... and so on and so on))))))))

            You have it in Maskvastan. And we also have Russian janitors for 12 thousand work and pretty girls come across in taxi drivers. And in stores as sellers, guys stand on which you can plow.
  • U-58
    U-58 22 December 2020 12: 55
    +8
    Poverty and wealth should not be related to food.
    The timing is not right. There are enough products. Let not the quality, but they are in abundance
    Therefore, the offered cards are the essence of a support measure.
    And at the same time, the shame of the authorities, which are ready to throw half of the population of their country on the altar of the victory of market relations.
    Although it's a no brainer that the "excrement" failed.
    25% percent of society lives off 75.
    And he introduces cards not so that the poor get enough food, but so that they do not rebel. Such is philanthropy ...
    1. Ross xnumx
      Ross xnumx 22 December 2020 15: 15
      +4
      Quote: U-58
      Poverty and wealth should not be related to food.
      The timing is not right. There are enough products. Let not the quality, but they are in abundance

      wassat Listen, philosopher. It also has enough salaries for everyone. Let not the sizes you want, but ...
      1. U-58
        U-58 22 December 2020 15: 19
        +1
        Is there enough salary for everyone? The philosophy of life (not mine) shows that thus 25% of it is just not enough ...
        Nadys in the central market is the queue for meat, semi-finished products, all sorts of food.
        Granny to the seller: daughter give me one sausage and two sausages. No, not the student ones.
        The grandmother has no money for more. But you can be glad for her. This week she will eat meat for 4 days (a sausage in half).
        She definitely has enough for everything.
        1. Ross xnumx
          Ross xnumx 22 December 2020 15: 36
          +4
          Quote: U-58
          She definitely has enough for everything.

          Sorry, there is no money for emery ... (bring your mind to a sharpened state) ... I explain:
          Quote: ROSS 42
          It is enough for everyone. Let not the sizes you want, but ...

          Everybody has wages and pensions in the country. Only their sizes differ by orders of magnitude. Therefore, some are forced to eat sausages "from students", while others are sick of foie gras ... And here you are typing:
          Quote: U-58
          There are enough products. Let not the quality, but they are in abundance

          Would you like to taste ".... tsa"? There is plenty of it in our country, even in abundance ...
          1. U-58
            U-58 22 December 2020 17: 12
            +2
            The general is to blame. I can finally be smart, but in your posts I do not trace some logic. Consciousness is not enough.
            Are you for the Bolsheviks, or are you for the Communists?
            And in terms of diamat I have three. But on history and scientific communism - ex.
  • 7,62h54
    7,62h54 22 December 2020 13: 07
    +10
    There seemed to be no war, the collapse of the country, too, and they are going to introduce cards. Covid is just an excuse, Dear Leader & Co. has been going to such a result for 20 years.
  • nobody75
    nobody75 22 December 2020 13: 10
    +1
    Food ration cards in Russia: a return to the past or a timely measure?

    Nonsense slum ... Why create financial surrogates ?! Did you just try to throw money from the helicopter? Production and demand are stimulated at the same time ...
    Sincerely
  • vladimirvn
    vladimirvn 22 December 2020 13: 12
    +8
    "Stop imposing alien bank cards on us, give us our, relatives, grocery cards .."
    Ordinary Russians write to Valentina Tereshkova.
  • Varyag71
    Varyag71 22 December 2020 13: 16
    +7
    But what about getting off your knees?
    1. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 22 December 2020 14: 32
      +7
      Quote: Varyag71
      But what about getting off your knees?

      Fell on your ass. Now it is necessary to rise again.
  • Roman070280
    Roman070280 22 December 2020 13: 28
    +3
    We approach the problem from the wrong side.
    1. Svarog
      Svarog 22 December 2020 14: 06
      +5
      Quote: Roman070280
      We approach the problem from the wrong side.

      Do you offer to solve the problem in the back of the head or in the forehead?
      1. Roman070280
        Roman070280 22 December 2020 14: 15
        0
        You can wait another 20 years ..
        When everything will start living on the cards ..))
        1. Svarog
          Svarog 22 December 2020 14: 17
          +6
          Quote: Roman070280
          When all will live on cards.

          I'm not sure what to live .. by that time and there will be no one to distribute cards ..
  • Dzerjinskiy56
    Dzerjinskiy56 22 December 2020 13: 33
    +2
    Quote: nnm
    Why are you comparing this ??? Then only with the help of cards you could buy food for yourself (except for co-retail stores), but now it is ADDITIONAL, FREE, it is proposed to give it to the poor. What's bad about it ?!!
    FREE under Capitalism does not happen !!! Remember this once and for all.
  • Natang
    Natang 22 December 2020 13: 46
    +3
    You can be happy even at 100 rubles and unhappy at 1000000 rubles.
    He himself grew up in the hungry 50s and his parents instilled the concept of the meaning of life not in the zhrachka.
    People, I emphasize ... people in the concentration camps survived on the water. There was purpose and there was faith.
    It is disgusting that the system of being is built, to put it mildly, not quite decent "people"
  • Roman070280
    Roman070280 22 December 2020 13: 53
    +7
    The very existence of this article on this resource is already a shame both for the country and for its power ..
    Well, in essence, it doesn't matter what they accept and what they don't.
  • Million
    Million 22 December 2020 14: 13
    +14
    Great Power! Great President!
    1. Roman070280
      Roman070280 22 December 2020 14: 16
      +8
      You can leave this one comment under the article ..
  • parusnik
    parusnik 22 December 2020 15: 04
    +2
    "I decided to give all my old costumes and shoes to the peasants-mowers" (c).
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 22 December 2020 16: 03
      0
      Put it all on Avito and take it away.
  • A_Lex
    A_Lex 22 December 2020 15: 35
    +3
    The driving motive under capitalism is greed. This motive is simple and understandable, which means it is strong. People may resent the existence of a system that functions in the interests of the greedy, but at the same time, these same people clearly understand the purpose and meaning of such a system, because it is logically arranged. And everything that looks logical is perceived by a person as natural.

    Therefore, only moral arguments are always put forward against the capitalist system, such as that "the system is bad, a shame", and what exactly the system is "bad", people cannot rationally explain. An explanation that goes back to the level of sensory, emotional perception is not a qualitative argument for the rational, judicious world of people. Therefore, the opponents of capitalism have a deliberately weak position in the dispute.

    Capitalism, like any other economic system, the purpose of which is the disproportionate distribution of resources and services in society, only then cannot be embodied in reality when the unnatural, unnatural and illogical nature of greed receives a logical and rational explanation. After that, greed itself at the official level will be declared not the norm, but a deviation up to the disease with appropriate methods of responding to its carriers in the form of compulsory treatment or, if such is impossible, life-long isolation from society. Until this happens, the world will be dominated by an abnormal system that directly indulges the desires of abnormal people.
  • From Tomsk
    From Tomsk 22 December 2020 19: 41
    +3
    Here you are citizens of the card for doshik. A-ha-ha)) And some Rotenberg will also cut down money on their issue and maintenance)) Well, give out cards to the deputies and the president instead of salaries.
  • Sotskiy
    Sotskiy 22 December 2020 20: 47
    +4
    Have mercy, gentlemen, the XXI century is in the yard.

    Have our reformers pre-reformed to ration cards? fellow And how beautiful they sang: "Everything blooms, everything smells!" laughing
    Although, everything goes with a frightening pattern, if someone watches not only TV.
    And, by the way, it is these “food stamps” under the nationwide Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP) that have existed in the United States for more than 80 years, which are so often presented to us as the standard of well-being and prosperity.

    Who would have doubted. Now I understand why we watched with such frenzy the election of the next "master" of the world. For our rulers, the "beacon of civilizational" ideology is rising to the West, which they project onto their own country, even if slavery is again introduced into the United States and for any offense they will tear the slave with dogs and scalp the Indians.
    Something I do not remember the times in the era of developed socialism of such "effective" measures as cards, even when Andropov came and began to tighten the screws, until the ghoul from the "liberal wing of the party nomenklatura" Mishka Labeled, seized power.
    And so and yes! The XNUMXst century is in the yard, but we have a course of returning to the origins of world civilization, they seem to us closer to us. laughing
    At least they are trying to convince us of this ...
    ... Balls, beauties, footmen, cadets
    And Schubert waltzes and a crunch of French rolls
    Love, champagne, sunsets, alleys
    How delightful evening in Russia...

    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 23 December 2020 18: 29
      -1
      From 1928 to 1933 it was worse in terms of hunger than in 1910.
  • fif21
    fif21 22 December 2020 21: 15
    +1
    Cheap products in private markets. Cash is held in high esteem. Increase pensions, unemployment benefits, payments for children. Food cards "Mir" with restrictions on the range and the country of the manufacturer is nonsense and a mockery. Creating the appearance of caring for the poor. Lived up your mother! You cannot create human living conditions in the country - suitcase, train station, England. Don't wait for "help". Again you will be indignant for the fact that it is the people so beloved by us who drown benefactors in barges or shoot them in the Ipatiev cellars. hi
  • Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I 23 December 2020 00: 42
    0
    What is there to argue about? Ever since Soviet times, I remember a TV show that told (and showed ...) how American citizens were given food stamps in the United States! This is in the country, at that time the richest in the "Western World"!
  • bandabas
    bandabas 23 December 2020 01: 22
    +2
    We have the richest country in the world. Gentlemen, fellow members of the forum. You then at least do not "zero" as a hydrant. The site starts to turn yellow
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 23 December 2020 18: 31
      -1
      It is not a hydrant - the Russian hub rests on it from the main kingpin.
  • Jaromir
    Jaromir 23 December 2020 02: 39
    +8
    Food ration cards in Russia: a return to the past or a timely measure?

    Well, and then the USSR galoshes. Here bam, that's all
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 23 December 2020 18: 33
      0
      The current card system is not connected with a food shortage in any way, it is connected with a lack of money from part of the population, and a sum of money will be attached to the card.