Military Review

Falklands-82. Argentine suicide

342

British in the Falkland Islands. Source: thesun.co.uk


"The Malvins were, are and will be Argentine!"


The Falklands or, as they are called in Argentina, the Malvinas Islands since 1833, formally under the English administration. It would seem, on what basis does Buenos Aires claim an archipelago, even if it is located only 500 kilometers from the mainland of the country?

The fact is that after the liberation from the Spanish crown, the Falklands were Argentine for four years from 1829. By "inheritance" and based on the UN's 1960 decolonization demands, Argentina could well have hoped for the return of the Malvinas Islands to its own jurisdiction.


British troops land on the islands of discord. Source: thehistorypress.co.uk

There was another reason for Argentina's territorial claims to Great Britain. Since 1976, the junta has come to power in the South American country, proclaiming a very peculiar economic course. The central bank deliberately overvalued the national currency, hoping for a quick technological modernization of the country. The calculation was simple - foreign investors and corporations import technology into Argentina using the favorable exchange rate of the peso to the dollar.

However, economic geniuses did not take into account the practical attitude of the country's citizens. When the salary of an ordinary engineer in Buenos Aires reached 6 thousand dollars, and the price level was a record for the continent, the population preferred to spend money abroad. People actively exported the national treasure, exchanging it for imported rest and goods.

The worst thing in this situation was agriculture, suffocating from imports and the unfavorable national exchange rate. All this was superimposed on the authoritarianism of the ruling military junta, which suppressed any dissent in the country. In Argentina, they still cannot find out the fate of more than 30 thousand people who disappeared without a trace during the years of military rule.


Source: newstatesman.com

In early 1982, dissatisfied Argentines took to the streets and demanded the resignation of the government of General Galtieri.

What will help the unpopular leader to stay in power in this situation?

In Buenos Aires, nothing better was invented than to wage a small victorious war against a country that is one of the founders of NATO. And even with a serious nuclear weapons.

В history this suicidal adventure came under the name of the 1982 Falklands War.

Scrap collectors attack


The calculation of the Argentine military strategists was simple - at the beginning of the 80s, the economic situation in England was not in the best way. It was assumed that the islands on the other side of the world, the government of Margaret Thatcher would not care.

On March 19, 1982, forty Argentine paratroopers disguised as scrap metal collectors landed on South Georgia Island. During a bloodless raid, fighters hoisted the national flag of Argentina on the island's main flagpole.

After waiting for some time, the main forces (numbering more than 2,5 thousand people) landed on the islands on April 2 and declared the archipelago a sovereign part of Argentina.

By that time, there were up to 1,8 thousand English-speaking inhabitants on the islands and a small garrison of the Marine Corps was stationed there, which surrendered almost without a fight to the many times superior enemy forces.

Already on April 3, General Galtieri was applauded by the public, which just a few days ago demanded the resignation of the military junta. Still, more than a century of national pain is finally gone - the Malvinas Islands returned to Argentina. And now the once unpopular government can rest on its laurels and continue clumsy economic experiments.

On the day of Argentine national triumph, the first bell rang - the UN Security Council adopted Resolution 3 on April 502, demanding the withdrawal of the occupying Argentine troops from the islands.

It is noteworthy that the Resolution was not approved unanimously - the odious Colonel Noriega from Panama was "against". Only four countries abstained, including the USSR.

The Soviet Union actively used the situation around the Falklands in its own interests.

First, Buenos Aires came under sanctions (like Moscow because of Afghanistan), and in fact the USSR became the only buyer of local grain and meat. Yes, there were times when our country bought grain from the other side of the world.

Second, the impending threat from Britain was an excellent reason for the Union to strengthen its anti-imperialist positions in the world. However, the assistance of the Soviet Union to Argentina was predominantly moral, and it consisted of statements about an exclusively peaceful solution to the issue.


One of the most well-equipped NATO armies, supported by the United States, fought against the weak forces of Argentina. Source: independent.co.uk

The concern of the Soviet leadership about the military resolution of the conflict and the involvement of the United States in this was understandable. Looking ahead, it is worth noting that one of the domestic radio broadcasts on May 1, 1982 contained a statement about the upcoming meeting of NATO defense ministers, at which British assistance was to be discussed. On the air you could hear:

"NATO has assumed the role of defender of the neo-colonialists and is trying to expand the sphere of its aggressive activity outside the North Atlantic alliance."

This approach logically fit into the previous Soviet accusations of the United States of intent to use the Falkland Islands as a base for the creation of the South Atlantic Treaty Organization or SATO.

By combining NATO and "CATO", the Americans had to take control of the entire Atlantic. The Soviet Union has repeatedly stated that

"The penetration of the aggressive NATO bloc into the South Atlantic is fraught with serious consequences for the whole world."

Thatcher War


For the Iron Lady, the liberation of the Falkland Islands, as well as for General Leopold Galtieri, was also an excellent chance for

"Small victorious war".

And for most Britons, the war, in general, opened their eyes to the remote territories of the once great British Empire. It turns out that up to 60% of British residents by April 1982 did not know about the existence of the Falkland Islands.

A British naval armada consisting of two aircraft carriers - Hermes and Invincible with Harrier vertical take-off planes with a total strength of about 28 thousand people - was urgently sent to the conflict zone. In the Atlantic, two aircraft carriers were joined by destroyers, torpedo boats, frigates, four submarines, and the pride of a civilian fleet - ship Queen Elizabeth II.

The date of the appearance of this powerful flotilla in the South Atlantic in the Falklands zone depended only on its speed and distance (8 thousand nautical miles), which had to be overcome.

While the Argentine contingent in the Falklands was awaiting the arrival of British forces, the Americans tried with all their might to resolve the issue peacefully. The point is in the treaties that Washington was tied with both London and Buenos Aires. The Americans were friends with the British in NATO, and with the Argentines - under the Inter-American Treaty on Mutual Assistance or the Rio Pact.

It is not hard to guess who the United States chose in this story. On April 30, 1982, this country officially announced its support for Great Britain.


British cleanup of residential areas of the islands. Source: nam.ac.uk

When the British began hostilities in the Falklands on May 21, they were already using US satellite intelligence data, as well as a naval base on Ascension Island for basing aviation.

The Argentine military contingent, which landed on the islands in early April, was hastily prepared and consisted of inexperienced soldiers and officers. Airstrikes by the Argentine Air Force were carried out from planes taking off from continental airports and covering about half a thousand kilometers before attacking the British. Half of the bombs fired from Argentine aircraft failed to explode.

According to the Washington Post,

During the conflict, the Argentine Air Force used aerial bombs manufactured in the United States "about 30 years ago" and delivered to Argentina several years before the conflict.

The Argentine Navy, neither in terms of its characteristics nor in quantity, was able to provide serious resistance to the British fleet and aviation.

So the British sank with impunity the outdated Argentine cruiser General Belgrano with 365 naval personnel on board outside the "exclusive zone" of conflict. After the tragedy, Leopold Galtieri withdrew from the waters of Falkland all the warships of Argentina.


British carrier-based VTOL fighter-bomber "Sea Harrier" above the deck of the container ship "Atlantic Conveyor" requisitioned by the military. Military transport helicopters "Chinook" are also visible on the deck of the ship. Source: warspot.ru

The Argentines had little to respond to blows. Among the meager arsenal are the French AM39 Exocet anti-ship cruise missiles, which sank the British destroyer Sheffield and the container ship Atlantic Conveyor. The latter was not a peaceful ship and was carrying combat British aircraft to the conflict zone.

Two frigates Ardent and Antelope, the destroyer Coventry and two landing ships went to the bottom of the British from enemy aircraft. The Argentine military found an unexpected use for the C-130 transport aircraft. It was used as a bomber, dropping bombs from the rear of the cargo bay onto ships in the Royal Navy.

As a result, during the entire conflict, British troops lost 255 killed and 775 wounded, and Argentina - 649 killed and 1657 wounded.

By June 14, 1982, London had regained its jurisdiction over the islands.

And on the continental part of Argentina, unrest began, which led to a change of power and a severe devaluation of the national currency.

General Galtieri's adventure turned into a national tragedy.

And Margather Thatcher was able to rally a country torn apart by contradictions.
Author:
342 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. Lexus
    Lexus 24 December 2020 04: 39
    +5
    Dofiga patriotism, but "no money, but you hold on." Others would be nice to learn this experience.
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 24 December 2020 04: 58
      +41
      AND!!!? Dear Fedor, I didn't even eat a sandwich. Few, too little.
      Regards, Kote!
      1. Crowe
        Crowe 24 December 2020 05: 10
        +36
        I agree - the topic is very interesting and deserves a more detailed narration. If the Author wanted to fit everything into the framework of one article, then it was possible to split the material into several parts and write at the end of each "To be continued ..." A slight disappointment ...
        1. vladcub
          vladcub 24 December 2020 14: 30
          +10
          Once in "Pionerka" they published: Kir Bulychev. The boys adored: "To be continued": one could argue: how events will develop.
          Parents then in the regional newspaper read: "Mest does not rust" a documentary story about the Chikists and she was also with: "to be continued"
          1. 72jora72
            72jora72 25 December 2020 06: 21
            +5
            Once in "Pionerka" they published: Kir Bulychev.
            I read "Lilac Ball" just in "Pionerskaya Pravda", and after that I purposefully began to read Bulychev and science fiction in general ...
            1. vladcub
              vladcub 25 December 2020 09: 39
              +3
              I remember something about: "purple ball", but I can't remember
              1. Alf
                Alf 25 December 2020 22: 07
                +1
                Quote: vladcub
                I remember something about: "purple ball", but I can't remember

                The only beautiful thing in the Purple Ball is the main Heroine.
              2. Alf
                Alf 26 December 2020 20: 12
                +1
                Quote: vladcub
                I remember something about: "purple ball", but I can't remember

                Dear Prince! I wonder what in your message offended the miner so much? For me this is a great mystery ...
                1. vladcub
                  vladcub 27 December 2020 09: 03
                  +2
                  Honorable Alf, the miners have a peculiar logic. Perhaps Bulychev doesn't like minus musicians?
            2. Alf
              Alf 25 December 2020 21: 27
              +1
              Quote: 72jora72
              Once in "Pionerka" they published: Kir Bulychev.
              I read "Lilac Ball" just in "Pionerskaya Pravda", and after that I purposefully began to read Bulychev and science fiction in general ...

              Planet 5-4 was also printed there.
      2. Korsar4
        Korsar4 24 December 2020 05: 17
        +13
        The sandwich must have been big. Or appetite in the morning did not play out.
        And so any thread can be pulled.

        But the forces were too unequal. Argentina had no serious chances.
        1. apro
          apro 24 December 2020 05: 57
          +6
          Quote: Korsar4
          But the forces were too unequal. Argentina had no serious chances.

          A very controversial statement: to place normal aviation on the islands and the Britons had no chances.
          1. Korsar4
            Korsar4 24 December 2020 06: 05
            +22
            And there was no normal comparable aviation.
            How much closer to Argentina is the scene.

            And after all, there were good results: two British frigates were sunk, two destroyers.

            But Argentina's planes were lost faster. The landing of the landing was not really placed. Not all bombs exploded.

            Could life be complicated for the British? Can. Would that change the bottom line? No.
            1. apro
              apro 24 December 2020 06: 09
              +7
              Quote: Korsar4
              Could life be complicated for the British? Can. Would that change the bottom line? No.

              Sinking 50% of the invasion fleet could not only complicate ... just the war would have moved to another level.
              1. Korsar4
                Korsar4 24 December 2020 06: 11
                +9
                The British had enough reserves.
                1. apro
                  apro 24 December 2020 06: 15
                  +3
                  Yes ... but you can't quickly build up a combat fleet. You would have to use a mobilized civilian fleet. Without aviation, an amphibious operation is difficult to do.
                  1. Korsar4
                    Korsar4 24 December 2020 06: 18
                    +8
                    It seems that the British had a nuclear submarine there. Just in case.
                    1. apro
                      apro 24 December 2020 06: 21
                      -1
                      Quote: Korsar4
                      It seems that the British had a nuclear submarine there. Just in case.

                      But the war would then go to a new level ... with the attraction of new players.
                      1. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 24 December 2020 06: 26
                        +19
                        Which players could intervene? Ours - abstained from voting. We watched from afar.

                        Argentina alone, Noriega, in my opinion, supported.

                        Argentina bought Exocet missiles from the French.
                        It worked. But there weren't many of them.

                        The USA openly supported the British.
                      2. apro
                        apro 24 December 2020 07: 11
                        +2
                        You know the use of yaba. In that region or in Argentina. I think many did not like it ...
                      3. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 24 December 2020 07: 24
                        +5
                        There can be many nuances. But who was the favorite in the conflict and who was the underdog is indisputable.
                      4. Avior
                        Avior 24 December 2020 15: 12
                        +6
                        there were no nuclear weapons
                        the British did not plan to use it in any course of the conflict
                      5. Bolt cutter
                        Bolt cutter 24 December 2020 20: 21
                        -1
                        https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2003/dec/06/military.freedomofinformation
                        Nuclear depth charges WE177 definitely were. They refused to talk about such losses.
                        there were no nuclear weapons
                      6. Avior
                        Avior 24 December 2020 22: 14
                        +2
                        Read your own link
                        Depth charges were already on the ships ordered to participate in the operation and move towards the Falklands, but the weapons were transferred on the way to other ships and were not in the conflict zone. It also says that the use of weapons was not planned in any case.
                        hi
                      7. Bolt cutter
                        Bolt cutter 24 December 2020 22: 21
                        -6
                        This is an attempt at clarification - check other English language resources. And don't try to change my mind. By the way, norot requires kamingout - Crimea, aviator wassat ? We answer in monosyllables tongue
                      8. Avior
                        Avior 24 December 2020 22: 53
                        +3
                        I checked your link and made sure that you just didn't read it.
                        hi
                    2. Bolt cutter
                      Bolt cutter 24 December 2020 22: 26
                      0
                      The Ministry of Defense admitted for the first time last night that British ships carried nuclear weapons in the Falklands war.
                    3. Avior
                      Avior 24 December 2020 22: 54
                      +2
                      Have you mastered a piece? Read everything, everything is written there
                    4. Bolt cutter
                      Bolt cutter 24 December 2020 23: 10
                      0
                      Well, I had enough in English for just a little - a passport laughing Where am I to Marivanna from high school tongue So whose Crimea laughing ?
                2. Bolt cutter
                  Bolt cutter 24 December 2020 22: 52
                  +3
                  Read your own link
                  that seven nuclear weapons containers were damaged during a series of wartime accidents.

                  But many of the details of these accidents are still being kept secret by the MoD. Seven containers with nuclear weapons were damaged during a series (more correctly, several) wartime accidents (English is good for politically correct journalists lol That is, they were not only there, but were probably damaged during the fighting. Something like this. I read the link. And you, aviator? And whose Crimea laughing ?
                3. Avior
                  Avior 24 December 2020 23: 27
                  0
                  Keep on twisting
                  ... with nuclear weapons

                  In the text, no. Don't know how it will be in English? Or deliberately lied?
                  The ministry insisted that there was never any intention to use the weapons during the war and that their presence did not break any disarmament treaties.

                  The MoD said the transfers of the WE177 depth charges took place at various times during April, May and June 1982, "well away from other sea-going traffic, and the weapons were held in ships with the best-protected magazines before being returned to Britain ".
                  The MoD insisted that the nuclear weapons never entered the territorial waters of the Falkland islands or any South American country.
                  The government has always said there was never any question of resorting to the use of nuclear weapons in the dispute.

                  Read on. Here, in your own link, which you will not be able to master in any way, is written what I said from the very beginning. Take a dictionary or something, otherwise you will misinterpret again, expert.
                  I don't think it makes sense to communicate with someone who deliberately distorts the text.
                  I will not bother you, write on
                  hi
                4. Bolt cutter
                  Bolt cutter 24 December 2020 23: 35
                  -1
                  in communication with a person who deliberately distorts the text.
                  I GIVEN LINKS, from which even MoD did not get away. And you, excuse me, "push bullshit" (maybe you will understand laughing ) Or pipi in the eyes and you dew wassat
                5. Avior
                  Avior 25 December 2020 00: 11
                  +1
                  Stop composing. You yourself did not know that in your links my post is officially fully confirmed. And everything else is at the level of rumors and journalistic gossip.
                  Have the courage to admit that you are wrong.
                6. Bolt cutter
                  Bolt cutter 25 December 2020 00: 19
                  -2
                  Have the courage to admit
                  Whose Crimea. laughing And then we'll talk.
    2. Skif
      Skif 27 December 2020 20: 41
      0
      Come on! Thatcher then stated that Britain uses ALL methods and means ... And this war for a pile of stones in the ocean was needed by Britain no less than Argentina. For the same reason.
    3. Avior
      Avior 27 December 2020 20: 43
      0
      Nuclear weapons were out of the question under any circumstances
      This was known for a long time, and above there are quotes confirming this
  2. Senior seaman
    Senior seaman 24 December 2020 13: 39
    +8
    This is the 80s, when "public opinion" was still something significant.
    Using nuclear weapons, England could be very badly damaged in terms of image. They hardly had a parliamentary crisis when the Belgrano was sunk outside the conflict zone
    IMHO, of course, but Thatcher would not have dared ... although she, forgive the tautology, was a resolute aunt :)))
  3. vladcub
    vladcub 24 December 2020 16: 24
    0
    I agree that Thatcher was a resolute lady, but she was not going to miss nuclear weapons.
  4. Vladimir247
    Vladimir247 25 December 2020 03: 13
    +4
    Corsair4
    ----------
    It worked.
    --------
    Who told you this? The author in the article diligently bypasses this question ... and I suspect, for a reason ...
    laughing
    When the British ships began to sink like leaky boats from these missiles, NATO friends put pressure on the French, and access to flight codes became known to the Naglo-Saxons.
    This is a fairly well-known story ... it just doesn't fit in your mind, how can it be HERE, at a military forum, is it unknown?
    So, there the grandmother also said in two how that war could end if a couple more British destroyers went to the bottom.
    And thank God that we did not receive the Mistral. Better let the Indians fly on French fighters ... laughing
    After all these freaks, it is generally not clear who, in their right mind, can buy something from France? request
  5. mmaxx
    mmaxx 25 December 2020 09: 34
    +1
    It is difficult to say how the documentation for the Exocets helped the British. The Argentines could count them on the fingers. And at that time almost everyone was shot.
    The main role in the reflection fell on conventional dipole reflectors.
  6. max702
    max702 25 December 2020 13: 28
    +3
    And nothing that France did not begin to supply the remaining under the contract and delivered them only after the end of the conflict .. maybe just these few pieces were not enough for a couple of three ships? The captain of the nuclear submarine had the order and authority to use nuclear weapons and it was the unsuccessful bombing (the bombs hit but did not explode) and the lack of anti-ship missiles made it possible to avoid it ... So Argentina had a chance to lower the Angles below the plinth ... at what cost ...
  7. mmaxx
    mmaxx 25 December 2020 15: 36
    +1
    And someone, even the Argentines, expected it to be somehow different ??? The war is in full swing here, and the French are supplying their partners with missiles for a war with their de facto ally. Don't you find this approach strange?
  8. max702
    max702 25 December 2020 16: 06
    +2
    Not that strange, but quite for itself .. The capitalist world has long been one country and one state with the countries of the subjects with local government appointed from the supreme regional committee .. So when you plan to step on someone's corn, think about whose foot is it? That's the whole story .. Therefore, I am very amused by the articles on the site in which the threat of confrontation with a single state is discussed and the funniest methods of solving this problem .. This is especially true of the local Morephiles playing ships against a single country, and not the entire conglomerate of interested persons .. In those years, there were two powerful camps and there were options, but the args fouled them like all by themselves, that's the result because the bombs are American anti-ship missiles, French .. planets, the lesson of South Africa did not go for the future, those also wanted independence ..
  9. Korsar4
    Korsar4 25 December 2020 20: 25
    +2
    In general, the part of the world under the control of, say, TNC is more and more.
  10. max702
    max702 25 December 2020 22: 55
    +2
    Duc all the golden billion under them, and the factory with the name China is firmly held by Faberge with technologies and sales markets, as they did not try to pretend to be rags, but you will not be spoiled by the bourgeoisie! We, too, tried to break in, but figs, they themselves are not enough ... there is little confusion and vacillation because everything has gone to a dead end, it is not known how it ends ...
  11. Korsar4
    Korsar4 25 December 2020 23: 09
    +1
    We have successfully been consumers for thirty years.
    More and more trading in raw materials. And who knows how to get out of the vicious circle.
  12. max702
    max702 26 December 2020 13: 39
    +3
    The share of resources is slowly but declining, this process is not easy because it is not at all from misunderstanding or reluctance to understand that they do not want to let anyone into the sales markets with a deeply processed product and gnaw it out with their teeth, and therefore so slowly ..
  13. Korsar4
    Korsar4 26 December 2020 14: 21
    +2
    Of course. They don't want to let me in.
    But we still trade in hydrocarbons, timber in round form, etc.
    I haven’t looked closely in recent years, but the structure of either production or exports is far from optimal.
  14. max702
    max702 3 January 2021 20: 53
    0
    Round timber is prohibited for export, and hydrocarbon processing has developed over the past 20 years, just to understand the problem, the most modern oil refinery in the RSFSR was built 68g .. What do you think we could process here especially after the holy 90s ?.
  15. Korsar4
    Korsar4 3 January 2021 21: 20
    0
    In 2019, the Russian Federation exported 15,8 million m3 of round timber.
  16. max702
    max702 3 January 2021 21: 33
    0
    Well, that's all .. While they were building the timber processing facilities, they took away the way of earning from the one who did it like cannibalism .. We gave time to organize processing industries and now all round timber is prohibited for export .. And guess who is our largest export forests in the world?
  17. Korsar4
    Korsar4 3 January 2021 21: 45
    0
    2019 - New Zealand. Apparently, from Pinus radiata plantations.
    So that we have organized wood processing over the past 30 years?
    Koronospan and Kronostar are from themselves.
  18. max702
    max702 3 January 2021 21: 55
    0
    Yes, even the production for one Ikea in Vsevolozhsk, to put it mildly, wow, and there are a lot of things throughout the country, but they will write you in the manuals .. And the fact that the scanty New Zealand is the main exporter does not bother you in any way? Or is it something else and must be understood? And the USA, which ranks second in the supply of round timber, is also the norm? Or is it only Russia that should be ashamed to trade timber as well as oil and gas, but the Holy Elves are not ashamed and very honorable?
  19. Korsar4
    Korsar4 3 January 2021 22: 04
    0
    What training manuals?
  20. max702
    max702 3 January 2021 22: 48
    0
    In those in which everything is bad in Russia ..
  21. Korsar4
    Korsar4 3 January 2021 23: 13
    0
    Here's a look at your theses:
    20-53 - export of round timber to the Russian Federation is prohibited.
    21-55 - New Zealand and the US also export a lot.

    And then we moved on to the "manuals".
  22. timokhin-aa
    timokhin-aa 3 January 2021 18: 11
    +1
    I am amazed at the degree of your involvement in all these processes. Straight insider, do not let take. Have you ever seen the reptilians alive there, in the ZOG office?
  23. max702
    max702 3 January 2021 20: 48
    0
    Of course, you know better with the 404th ... Where are the quilted jackets, or the case of the saucepan, they know everything for sure .. About the same ..
  24. timokhin-aa
    timokhin-aa 3 January 2021 21: 26
    +2
    This is some kind of fashionable trick among people with a slow speed of transmission of nerve impulses - to accuse everyone who is too smart that they are from Ukraine.
    Are you taught this somewhere?
  25. max702
    max702 3 January 2021 21: 30
    0
    At the expense of being too smart, you are certainly beautiful .. But Svidomizm and not such a distance starts .. You would look for a shovel useful ...
  26. timokhin-aa
    timokhin-aa 3 January 2021 21: 41
    +2
    At the expense of being too smart, you are certainly beautiful


    This is so self-evident that it does not require any proof.

    But Svidomism is not going to get it far.


    To what distance? We kind of talked about your connections in ZOG, and not about the "distances" of Svidomism. And by the way, how do you define Svidomo? Anyone without a tail-svidomo? But after all so it is possible to define in Svidomye ALL TILES. Who will you communicate with then? laughing
    So, just in case - I live much east of the Volga. But this already, I see, is not interesting to you and does not matter.

    You should look for a shovel ...


    Why would I look for her? I know perfectly well where my shovel is.

    And you, citizen, please look for a thermometer. He, it seems, will not be useful to you, but it is already useful right now.
  27. max702
    max702 3 January 2021 21: 46
    -1
    The shovel is the one with which the sea was dug and the Caucasian mountains were poured, and about the evidence, the attending physician will also appreciate nothing, you do not miss the main procedure and take medications ..
  28. timokhin-aa
    timokhin-aa 3 January 2021 23: 12
    +1
    The shovel is the one that dug the sea and dumped the Caucasus mountains


    Something you have absolutely bad things.
    Let's remember the dialogue step by step, otherwise you have lost its thread.
    I wrote to you that you have amazing knowledge of matters related to the world behind the scenes.
    You told me that I was from Ukraine better known and told me to look for a shovel.
    I replied that you have very strange methods of identifying Ukrainians, and that I do not need to look for a shovel, because I know where it is.
    You said in response that it was the shovel with which they dug the Black Sea and dumped the Caucasus Mountains, and for evidence they sent me to some attending physician.

    and about the evidence, this is also nothing the attending physician will appreciate


    What kind of evidence? Proof of WHAT? We talked about something else completely. Are you in yourself?

    Nobody dug anything with my shovel except me. I try not to give a shovel to anyone, otherwise the handle will be broken, I will either have to repair it by shortening the handle, or buy a new one and change it. Or buy a new shovel.

    But in connection with what you are building such strange dialogues? You are healthy?
  29. Vladimir247
    Vladimir247 25 December 2020 14: 43
    +1
    Hard to say...
    ---------
    Good phrase. laughing
    The mouse ran, waved its tail, to the curation and fell ... and the naglich people turned away proudly, fu, they say, we do it, and we can do it ourselves ... laughing
    I’m looking at who’s here, but you will not meet ... laughing
  30. mmaxx
    mmaxx 25 December 2020 15: 42
    +1
    Read how many missiles Argentina had and how many they had spent at that time.
    Think for yourself, they gave you the documentation for any weapon of the enemy. And he already has it. Will help? Here is at least all the documentation for a sample, all the test results and everything in the world. And this sample no longer exists. Have spent. Will help?
    With the logic of the problem? The British, of course, took it and studied it. Just how did it help? The main weapon against missiles was dipole reflectors. Weapons, Christmas trees, sticks, World War II.
  31. Vladimir247
    Vladimir247 25 December 2020 18: 35
    +1
    At that time, they spent ...
    -------
    So you know for sure that at the time of receiving the information, the missiles were gone? So share the source, this is the first time I've heard this.
  32. Korsar4
    Korsar4 25 December 2020 20: 24
    +1
    I agree with many things.

    Alas, Prince Florizel would not approve, but most draw information from open sources.

    I also agree that France was pressured.
    And a supporter of domestic technology, both military and civil.

    Even if it's a tractor.
  33. your1970
    your1970 25 December 2020 20: 49
    0
    Quote: Vladimir247
    After all these freaks, it is generally not clear who, in their right mind, can buy something from France?

    So we threw - like suckers - the French ...
    The whole world watched the circus - here's like you Mistral, oh, like NO Mistral for you ..... Will someone buy Mistral in this situation ????? Yeah right now .....
  34. Vladimir247
    Vladimir247 25 December 2020 21: 18
    +1
    So it seems like they sold it to someone ... and the Indians buy fighter jets ... while fools live in the world ... to walk the French, therefore, from hand ... laughing
  • vadivm59
    vadivm59 25 December 2020 19: 47
    +1
    without any seemingly multi-purpose nuclear submarine "Conqueror", which sank the cruiser "General Belgrano" of the Argentine Navy.
  • CTABEP
    CTABEP 24 December 2020 21: 37
    +2
    Everyone counts bombs and sorties - and everything was decided when the first Marines landed on the islands. Because on the one hand - a professional army, and on the other - conscripts, with untrained officers and an absent desire to fight. And as for the bombs, the author again did not indicate the main reason for their failure - a penny saving at one time on braking devices. Which, of course, would increase Britain's losses, but would not change the course of the war.
    1. kig
      kig 25 December 2020 03: 46
      +4
      I would advise all disputants to read the memoirs of Admiral Woodward. In my opinion, they are in translation. He clearly admits there that the situation was difficult and everything hung in the balance
      1. Korsar4
        Korsar4 25 December 2020 23: 14
        0
        Yes. Found. Thank you. Published: Simferopol, 2005.
    2. gsev
      gsev 26 December 2020 22: 33
      0
      Quote: CTABEP
      Because on the one hand - a professional army, and on the other - conscripts, with untrained officers

      All British paratroopers were equipped with night vision devices and in battle could shoot Argentines like blind kittens. No training would help the Argentines in the absence of night sights and night vision devices.
  • your1970
    your1970 25 December 2020 17: 04
    +3
    Quote: Korsar4
    The British had enough reserves.

    There was no ... Anecdote., But there was no ..
    1. Korsar4
      Korsar4 25 December 2020 20: 27
      0
      All the same anecdote.

      I understand that logistics cannot be discarded. But the tentacles are large in the English crown (hydra).
  • Revolver
    Revolver 24 December 2020 07: 00
    +14
    Quote: apro
    Sinking 50% of the invasion fleet could not only complicate ... just the war would have moved to another level.

    I remember that at that time somewhere (not according to the Voice of America?) A phrase flashed across that the British, instead of poking around with non-aircraft carriers carrying Harrier fighters, should have built, or even better bought from America, a full-size aircraft carrier with normal Phantoms or Cats. Just then, non-nuclear aircraft carriers were going to be decommissioned and replaced by the Nimitz, so it was not very expensive to take something. And after all, if it came to such losses of Royal Navy, Thatcher would fork out. For her, the prestige of the nation was not an empty phrase.
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 24 December 2020 09: 38
      +5
      And after all, if it came to such losses of the Royal Navy, Thatcher would fork out.
      Unlikely. They, too, had no "ice" with the dough.
      1. Revolver
        Revolver 24 December 2020 11: 12
        +9
        Quote: 3x3zsave
        Unlikely. They, too, had no "ice" with the dough.

        This Iron Lady would rather cut the social network and sold privatized state corporations than would agree to merge the war stupidly due to lack of dough.
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 24 December 2020 11: 26
          +3
          She did what you listed. And about the "drain", right! In '82, she was an extremely unpopular politician, and there were elections ahead. But an aircraft carrier is not a hot dog, you can't buy it in 2 minutes.
          1. Revolver
            Revolver 24 December 2020 11: 52
            +4
            Quote: 3x3zsave
            But an aircraft carrier is not a hot dog, you can't buy it in 2 minutes.
            Che-thread class Essex from sludge or even class Midway, who have already begun to write off "needles", although there was more life in them than in the same "Kuznetsov", Ronald's friend would have sold or leased as quickly as possible (perhaps they would have issued it in a couple of months) and at the lowest price ... If only because he would not like the idea of ​​reducing the fleet by 50% of the most important NATO ally. The air wing, if used Phantoms, is also inexpensive, but for Argentine Skyhawks and Mirages it would be enough for the eyes, and if brand new F-14s, it is expensive, but they would have issued on credit. And a couple of used EM class escorts if not Spruancethen Adams would also be pitying. How long it would take to train crews and especially pilots, I don’t even presume to guess.
          2. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 24 December 2020 12: 04
            +3
            There, the whole war took 10 weeks.
            But your script is beautiful!
          3. Revolver
            Revolver 24 December 2020 21: 05
            +3
            Quote: 3x3zsave
            There, the whole war took 10 weeks.

            Because the Argentos boys showed a complete unwillingness to fight adult Britons. And they took out half of the Royal Navy at the very beginning of the conflict, as suggested above apro, it would take a long time. Iron Lady Thatcher had a stronger Faberge than all other British premiers after Churchill, and she would not have given up the last fragments of the British Empire for nothing.
          4. mmaxx
            mmaxx 25 December 2020 09: 32
            0
            Yes, the Angles were never whipping boys. What with Thatcher, what without. So it is in general.
      2. Senior seaman
        Senior seaman 24 December 2020 13: 40
        +3
        Quote: Nagan
        perhaps in a couple of months they would have issued

        Yeah, and they would have mastered for a couple of years :)))
      3. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 24 December 2020 15: 18
        +6
        Quote: Nagan
        Che-thread of the Essex class from sludge

        The maximum possible deck boat is Skyhawk.
        Quote: Nagan
        or even the Midway class, which have already begun to write off "needles"

        They wrote off only one "Midway" - "FDR". The rest survived until the 90s.
        Quote: Nagan
        and if brand new F-14, it is expensive, but would have issued on credit.

        There were no F-14s on the Midway - these machines were too heavy. The Hornets played the role of fighters on the Midway.
        Quote: Nagan
        That's how long it would take to train the crews and especially the pilots, I don’t even presume to guess.

        Pfff ... "American volunteers" (well paid, I must say) have not yet been canceled. So some "Falkland Tigers" would appear off the coast of Argentina. smile
      4. Essex62
        Essex62 24 December 2020 19: 20
        +1
        What purchases? For
        support of the motherland, the naglo-Saxons would not have taken a cent. That would have been it, a couple of Essexes came, carried out with Phantoms and Skyhawks all the available composition of crazy Argentine warriors. They also cooked on continental Argentina, to teach a lesson. Only the Union could transfer the conflict to a different plane, but the leadership of the USSR has already turned sour. The age of the emperor, however. The process of bourgeois restoration has already begun in society.
      5. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 24 December 2020 19: 39
        +4
        Quote: Essex62
        To support the motherland, they wouldn't take a penny even a cent.

        Yeah ... they would have taken them with lands and bases - like last time. smile
        Quote: Essex62
        So everything was, a couple of Essexes came, carried out with Phantoms and Skyhawks all the available composition of crazy Argentine warriors.

        The Essex did not have Phantoms, for the same reason the Midway did not have Tomcats. That is why the Essexes were written off - because normal deck vehicles younger than Skyhawks and Crusaders could not fly from them.
        So the maximum possible fighter for the Essex is the Crusader (removed from service by USN in 1976). Butting them with "Mirages" is somehow not very good. smile
      6. Essex62
        Essex62 24 December 2020 21: 08
        0
        Yes mixed up, wanted to say a couple of "Americas". And not with Skyhawks but Hornets, I guess.
      7. Essex62
        Essex62 24 December 2020 21: 24
        +1
        Yes, I forgot everything thoroughly, Hornet doesn’t work. It will only be adopted by minke whales in a year. repeat
    2. vladcub
      vladcub 24 December 2020 21: 27
      +1
      The Mirage is certainly not an F-14, but the "toothy" and the Brits with an equal "beast" were not thick.
      Another thing is that Argentina had few Mirages.
    3. mmaxx
      mmaxx 25 December 2020 15: 49
      0
      In general, it was possible to fight the Ethandars and Skyhawks in almost any jet plane. Argentine aircraft were operating at the limit of range. Even on the second run, there was often no fuel. Any delay and the plane never returned. Fell into the sea. Therefore, the Argentines could not fight any kind of battle. Well it is. All the same, the British did not have normal aircraft.
  • Revolver
    Revolver 25 December 2020 01: 17
    0
    Quote: Alexey RA
    Pfff ... "American volunteers" (well paid, I must say) have not yet been canceled. So some "Falkland Tigers" would appear off the coast of Argentina.

    Quite a real scenario. And even questions of linguistics, like Li Xi Cing's in China, would not be raised.
  • IL-18
    IL-18 24 December 2020 23: 39
    +1
    Quote: Nagan
    That's how long it would take to train the crews and especially the pilots, I don’t even presume to guess.

    Here! This is the main thing.
    Well, they left me without comment repeat
  • NEOZ
    NEOZ 25 December 2020 12: 52
    0
    Quote: 3x3zsave
    Unlikely. They, too, had no "ice" with the dough.

    would take for free from the USA (or a loan)
  • Alexey RA
    Alexey RA 24 December 2020 15: 09
    +4
    Quote: Nagan
    I remember that at that time somewhere (not according to the Voice of America?) The phrase flashed that the British, instead of poking around with non-aircraft carriers carrying Harrier fighters, should have built, or even better bought from America, a full-size aircraft carrier with normal Phantoms or Cats.

    So they had it - "Arc Royal", modernized for "Phantoms"! But he was written off exactly in 1979.
    They tried to build a normal AB for jet engines in the 60s: the CVA-01 "Queen Elizabeth". But Labor killed him at the order stage, first proposing to replace AB with coastal F-111s, and then burying the F-111 purchase program.
    Quote: Nagan
    Just then, non-nuclear aircraft carriers were going to be decommissioned and replaced by the Nimitz, so it was not very expensive to take something. And if it came to such losses of the Royal Navy, Thatcher would have forked out. For her, the prestige of the nation was not an empty phrase.

    Not everything is so simple.
    The only American AB, written off in the 70s, capable of carrying Phantoms, was the FDR of the Midway type. The rest are "Essexes", basing "Phantoms" on which it was considered impossible (including for this they were written off). The most that Essex can do is Skyhawk.
    1. Sergey Sfiedu
      Sergey Sfiedu 24 December 2020 20: 23
      0
      As far as I remember, the Americans planned, in the event of the sinking of one of the British aircraft-carrying ships, to transfer the Iwo Jima-class helicopter carrier to the British. This idea was considered as an obvious adventure, since it took the English sailors a lot of time to master the unfamiliar technology.
  • Bolt cutter
    Bolt cutter 24 December 2020 23: 17
    0
    For her, the prestige of the nation was not an empty phrase.
    Oh, there were times ...
  • Pilat2009
    Pilat2009 25 December 2020 09: 07
    0
    Quote: Nagan
    Quote: apro
    Sinking 50% of the invasion fleet could not only complicate ... just the war would have moved to another level.

    I remember that at that time somewhere (not according to the Voice of America?) A phrase flashed across that the British, instead of poking around with non-aircraft carriers carrying Harrier fighters, should have built, or even better bought from America, a full-size aircraft carrier with normal Phantoms or Cats. Just then, non-nuclear aircraft carriers were going to be decommissioned and replaced by the Nimitz, so it was not very expensive to take something. And after all, if it came to such losses of Royal Navy, Thatcher would fork out. For her, the prestige of the nation was not an empty phrase.

    Crew retraining takes more than one week, you know
  • timokhin-aa
    timokhin-aa 3 January 2021 18: 16
    +2
    They should have finished their "Eagle" for the Phantoms, left the Hermes with the Bacaners without conversion, and put the Arc Royal, which was falling apart, into storage until a new aircraft carrier appeared.
    They WERE normal aircraft carriers, the same "Ark Royal" with "Phantoms" grunted until 1978. If it was in storage, it could have been brought to the Falklands, and if Eagle had not been cut on pins and needles, then Ark Royal could have been withdrawn to the reserve.
    They wrote off all their aircraft carriers, and then in a fire brigade, having put in half a yard of pounds, they began to acquire freaks for the Harriers.
  • vladcub
    vladcub 24 December 2020 16: 13
    +2
    Few, probably, the forces were not comparable.
    I remember this period. Then I could not read (trauma) and only listened. It seems on the program: "Time" ', or maybe on the radio, a military expert spoke and said that the Argentine Air Force was ill-trained and could not make full use of their aircraft.
    In principle, this is not surprising: their aviation is mainly "sharpened" for guerrillas, and there special skills are not required
    1. Sergey Sfiedu
      Sergey Sfiedu 24 December 2020 21: 00
      +3
      The Argentine Air Force was (for a third world country) perfectly prepared. Finding a ship in the sea and hitting it with unguided bombs from a fighter-bomber under heavy anti-aircraft fire from air defense systems and artillery is far from a trivial task. The actions of the British squadron were much more like an adventure - to go to war with a continental country with a pair of anti-submarine helicopter carriers - you need to have a lot of impudence. The mistake of the Argentines was that they were absolutely sure that the British would never fight over some dull ice islands, on which, except for sheep and pigwins, there are no other values. From this and a fundamental mistake - an airfield for the Mirages and Skyhawks was not built (a quick construction would be difficult, but possible). Plus, if the military and naval pilots showed examples of heroism and professionalism, even in spite of the general obsolescence of the equipment, then the sailors after the sinking of the Belgrano withdrew themselves (one might think that wars do without casualties). and the army men even shamefully hung out white flags after several explosions of shells and aerial bombs in their positions, and then were surprised to find that they had surrendered to enemy units, much weaker both in numbers and in armament. And the British, on the contrary, showed that they know how to fight not by numbers, and not by super-duper weapons, but by skill.
      1. vladcub
        vladcub 24 December 2020 21: 59
        +1
        "Fast construction would be difficult, but possible" I'm not sure about that. It would be like that, perhaps the Argentines start on March 20-22, so that there is a margin of time
        1. Sergey Sfiedu
          Sergey Sfiedu 24 December 2020 22: 06
          +1
          Without the rapid construction of an air base, the whole idea would have lost its meaning. But the "gorillas" from the junta were weak with soapy activity. To torture and shoot communists and socialists - that's what they were masters of.
          By the way, they wrote that practically the entire conflict, transport aircraft from the mainland landed at the Port Stanley airfield, damage to the runway from air raids and shelling was promptly eliminated. It means that they were not completely armless.
          1. vladcub
            vladcub 25 December 2020 08: 59
            +3
            "the junta's" gorils "were weak with thinking." And when was it different with the "gory"? Which is easier: to shoot the "political" or to think it over in front?
            It seems that in the XNUMXs there was a series on TV: "Planet of the Apes"
            There, too, the gorillas were stupid sadists, and the chimpanzees were smarter. I looked at it a little and turned it off.
      2. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 25 December 2020 08: 10
        +1
        Quote: Sergey Sfyedu
        and the army men even shamefully hung out white flags after several explosions of shells and aerial bombs in their positions

        That is a significant number of wounded British "Pihatinians" received their wounds in bayonet battles ...
        1. vladcub
          vladcub 25 December 2020 09: 10
          +3
          Andrey, good morning. I miss the navy history stuff already.
          Maybe in the New Year "bang" about: Spiridov and the fleet of that period? In general, anything from the history of the fleet
          1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
            Andrei from Chelyabinsk 25 December 2020 09: 12
            +1
            Quote: vladcub
            Maybe in the New Year "bang" about: Spiridov and the fleet of that period? In general, anything from the history of the fleet

            No, alas, I won't bang. Now I'm only banging what I wrote before, now there will be 3 materials. Continuation on the armor of Sevastopol, about observation devices from the T-34-76 and the final article about taxes of subsoil users / budget
          2. vladcub
            vladcub 25 December 2020 09: 36
            +1
            Alas. "Woe is me ..." (c)
      3. Sergey Sfiedu
        Sergey Sfiedu 25 December 2020 18: 01
        0
        "That is a significant number of wounded British" Pikhatinians "received their wounds in bayonet battles ..." - well, so it is clear that there were separate units with good training and fortitude. But for the most part this did not play any role. As far as I read - the attacks of the British infantry, the Argentines, at the very least, pounded. But when naval artillery and aviation began to work on them, their nerves could no longer stand.
    2. nedgen
      nedgen 13 March 2021 22: 14
      0
      Hi Sergei, the Argentines would definitely have a better chance if they occupied the islands just a year later. Then the last two aircraft carriers of the Britons would have been cut into metal and even had time to cut them a little. They were planned to be decommissioned in mid-1982. And even a few months before the war, information appeared that some company, while drilling on the shelf of the Falklands, discovered oil, probably, and decided to do it. But without the aircraft carriers, the Britons would definitely be worse off. You won't get far on Atlantic conveyors alone. In addition, there was information several years ago (of course not confirmed) that during the hostilities an Argentine submarine stuck a torpedo into the British nuclear submarine and even heard the sound of a hit, but the torpedo did not explode. floated up from the ground without a move and blasted with a remote-controlled topedo (The question is how did this submarine survive after this if everything was true)) request
      But the Argentines did not have to look for the Britts at all. They deliberately sat between the islands because they were fighting a war of attrition. The question was whether the Argentines would run out of planes earlier or the Britons would have ships. The planes ended earlier. And on the shores of the strait, the brites placed the Rapira air defense system to assist the air defense of the ships, and they really did provide such assistance. I don't remember exactly, but between 10 and 25% of the downed planes are on their account.
  • Avior
    Avior 24 December 2020 22: 40
    +4
    The Argentine Air Force was well trained, especially the flight personnel.
    Their pilots are like an elite clan
    The technique, of course, is not super duper, but it was quite suitable against the English Harriers.
    The British had to dodge a lot to fight the Argentine air force
  • Andrei from Chelyabinsk
    Andrei from Chelyabinsk 25 December 2020 08: 09
    +3
    Quote: vladcub
    It seems on the program: "Vremya" ', or maybe on the radio, a military expert spoke and said that the Argentine Air Force was ill-trained and could not make full use of their aircraft.

    The poorly trained Air Force on reconnaissance aircraft from WWII (Neptune) managed to reveal the location of the British fleet, identified the "weak link" - a detachment of ships with Sheffield, and attack it with missile-carrying aircraft. The British learned about the attack at the time of its implementation
    1. vladcub
      vladcub 25 December 2020 09: 33
      +1
      I say what I heard about. This is after a lapse of time, we all know and understand, but immediately understand everything? And it also matters who was invited as an expert: a quartermaster or a military pilot.
      Remember how an "expert" was found on the site and assumed: shoot drones from a pistol or catch with a net, so that it would be more accurate?
      1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 25 December 2020 10: 02
        +1
        Quote: vladcub
        I say what I heard about.

        So, am I really claiming? :) hi
        Quote: vladcub
        And it also matters who was invited as an expert: a quartermaster or a military pilot.

        That's for sure. But even a military pilot could have problems, since, for obvious reasons, he could hardly know a lot about the Argentine Air Force - how? Expert judgment, when judging by indirect indications, even from the best expert can still be erroneous, there are no complaints here.
        1. vladcub
          vladcub 25 December 2020 12: 49
          +3
          Ideology also mattered: the military "junta" is fascists and naturally, at least something must be bad for them
  • Kamaz
    Kamaz 29 December 2020 08: 30
    0
    Not true. Argentine pilots in those days were very well trained and had enough fighting spirit. Very few missiles. Attacking on a jet plane, catching the tops of the waves, you need to be able to
  • mmaxx
    mmaxx 25 December 2020 18: 55
    0
    The Angles have a good approach. Fight to the end. Like: a ship can be built in 3 years, but tradition takes 300 years. They have repeatedly proved their ability to fight with heavy losses. There is no reason for it to be earlier, it will be different now and in the future.
    1. your1970
      your1970 26 December 2020 08: 50
      0
      Quote: mmaxx
      They have repeatedly proved their ability to fight with heavy losses.

      Dunkirk, no? About the "unnamed person" - Rommel is even too lazy to remember .... If he had at least minimal supplies from the Reich - he would have driven the Angles to India at least
      1. mmaxx
        mmaxx 26 December 2020 09: 57
        0
        Show the army or navy that was not beaten. But remember what Churchill said after Dunkirk. And he began to do it. What Cunningham said and began to do at Crete. And so on. And so on. And if, but if only ... Mushrooms would grow in the mouth.
        1. your1970
          your1970 26 December 2020 14: 10
          0
          without "if" and "if only" - Rommel, having scanty supplies, drove the Angles as he wanted and wherever he wanted, without taking into account their wishes ...
          1. mmaxx
            mmaxx 26 December 2020 15: 18
            0
            Oops. And not tired of the same. And where did this Rommel become then? And it was he who was defeated.
            Offtopic, of course, but I read this version of his victories. That the British had one American at the headquarters, who constantly sent his reports about everything. And the Germans split his code. Therefore, Rommel knew all the plans of the British and beat them as he wanted. And then the American drove away from the headquarters and fell under the German aviation. By mistake. That is how they peeled him and did not touch him. And all Rommel's victories ended immediately. The military leader's talent has dried up somewhere. And everything became quite the opposite.
            But that says only one thing. The Angles were not going to surrender and fought. Until we won. And about the difficulties of supply is not necessary. The British also had no way of doing this. As their navy provided them, it was common heroism. The phrase "I served in the Mediterranean at Cunningham" was synonymous with cool.
          2. your1970
            your1970 26 December 2020 15: 37
            0
            Quote: mmaxx
            And all Rommel's victories ended immediately. General's talent has dried up somewhere
            - Winston Churchill, speaking in the House of Commons, said: “We have before us a very experienced and brave opponent and, I must admit, despite this devastating war, - a great commander” (“We have a very daring and skillful opponent against us, and , may I say across the havoc of war, a great general ").
            but for such orders, the generals should be immediately hanged as alarmists ...
            “There is a real danger that our friend Rommel will become a sorcerer or a scarecrow for our soldiers.
            Too much has already been said about him. He is by no means superhuman, although he is very energetic and possesses abilities. Even if he were superhuman, it would be highly undesirable for our soldiers to believe in his supernatural power.
            I want you to dispel the notion that Rommel is more than an ordinary German general in every possible way. For this, it seems important not to mention Rommel's name when we talk about the enemy in Libya. We should mention “Germans” or “Axis countries” or “enemy”, but in no case focus on Rommel.
            Please take steps to implement this order immediately and inform all commanders that, from a psychological point of view, this is a matter of the highest importance. "

            Quote: mmaxx
            And about the difficulties of supply is not necessary. The British also had no way of doing this.
            -In fact, they fought on their territory ...

            and yes - about the supply. The presence of tanks in sandy camouflage on the Eastern Front was recorded quite accurately ... they did not get to Rommel ...
          3. mmaxx
            mmaxx 26 December 2020 19: 43
            0
            Question 1: who defeated Rommel?
            Question 2: Did the British need supplies? Or did they have everything in Africa?
            When you hear your complaints about the British, I can apply all the same words to us. Guderians, Mansteins .... Does it look like anything?
          4. your1970
            your1970 26 December 2020 23: 34
            0
            Quote: mmaxx
            Question 1: who defeated Rommel?
            - it was defeated by the lack of supplies of infantry, aircraft, tanks and fuel ... the British are in the list of Rommel's winners in 10th place ...
            Quote: mmaxx
            When you hear your complaints about the British, I can apply all the same words to us. Guderians, Mansteins .... Does it look like anything?
            - quite ... only, as a result, Germany was united and exists, and the USSR died
          5. mmaxx
            mmaxx 27 December 2020 06: 03
            +1
            Yeah. Rommel was sitting at home and then shortage won him over. And the USSR died in WWII. All clear.
            Argentina would have won the UK. If not for the insidious French. They lacked those 3 (or how many) missiles that the French declassified.
            And in terms of reserves. Remember - they are never enough for anyone. Especially in a big war. And no lack and no reason can justify defeat. Everything is simple here - there was nothing to start if there was not enough. Usually, in such matters there is not enough brains.
          6. your1970
            your1970 27 December 2020 13: 45
            0
            Quote: mmaxx
            Everything is simple here - there was nothing to start if not enough. Usually, there are not enough brains in such matters.
            - a wonderful formula !! absolutely agree with it !!!
            only with these words of yours
            Quote: mmaxx
            And in terms of reserves. Remember - their never enough for anyone.
            - what to do?
  • Bagatur
    Bagatur 24 December 2020 11: 37
    +3
    If everything is in order with the bombs, the British have shown little ...
  • Senior seaman
    Senior seaman 24 December 2020 13: 34
    +4
    Quote: Korsar4
    And there was no normal comparable aviation.

    Come on!
    How did Mirages fail to please you, especially in comparison with the Harriers?
  • Maki Avellevich
    Maki Avellevich 24 December 2020 21: 36
    +2
    Quote: Korsar4
    Could life be complicated for the British? Can. Would that change the bottom line? No.

    we must fight with the occupants. you have to do this even if you don't see a chance of winning.
    I will cite the Jews as one example.

    Greek occupation of Israel. the Greeks had the first army in the world at that time. Jews start a riot even though the chances are close to zero. this time fabulously lucky and tens of thousands of Greek soldiers are defeated.
    Roman occupation. Jews are again rebelling against an empire that is even more powerful than the Greek.
    the Roman garrison is defeated, but after a couple of years the Latins return and, as expected, they show the Jews Kuzkin's mother which neither the Greeks nor the Assyrians and Babylonians showed them together, and they were also not fools in this matter.

    On the other hand, the Jews acted stupidly and irresponsibly. the people, in principle, could cease to exist after such antics. (after meeting on the battlefield with the Roman legions or the Rinma economy and benefits, more than one people disappeared)
    on the other hand, the opposition to the occupants created the myth of heroism and served as a frame (additional to religion) on which these people could hold out for 2000 years in the diaspora until they burst into their land, avoiding assimilation and extermination.

    morality:
    got in the face? give me back. and what will happen.
    1. Revolver
      Revolver 25 December 2020 01: 39
      +1
      Quote: Maki Avellievich
      Greek occupation of Israel. the Greeks had the first army in the world at that time. Jews start a riot even though the chances are close to zero. this time fabulously lucky and tens of thousands of Greek soldiers are defeated.

      If I remember correctly, the Greeks were greatly constrained by the fact that there were nearby (not in Egypt?) There were Roman legions. And Herod the Great, who picked up the crown of Judea when the Maccabean brothers somehow quickly and one by one died the death of the brave in battles for the Motherland with german Greco-fascist invaders, somehow very quickly and willingly lay down near Rome.
      Quote: Maki Avellievich
      Roman occupation. Jews are again rebelling against an empire that is even more powerful than the Greek.
      the Roman garrison is defeated, but after a couple of years the Latins return and, as expected, show the Jews Kuzkin's mother

      And it’s nothing that the Jews in besieged Jerusalem started a small civil war of all against all? The factions of the Sadducees, Pharisees, Sikkarii, and whoever else, instead of resisting Rome, started a showdown on the subject of which of them is the best Jews. Essno the Romans explained to them that they are all the worst, and so that there would be no more disputes over who should steer the Temple, they demolished it so thoroughly that only the Wailing Wall remained.
      Truly, the Jews have no worse enemies than themselves. By the way, when are your next early elections?
      1. Maki Avellevich
        Maki Avellevich 25 December 2020 08: 06
        +1
        Quote: Nagan
        And it’s nothing that the Jews in besieged Jerusalem started a small civil war of all against all? The factions of the Sadducees, Pharisees, Sikkarii, and whoever else, instead of resisting Rome, started a showdown on the subject of which of them is the best Jews. Essno the Romans explained to them that they are all the worst, and so that there would be no more disputes over who should steer the Temple, they demolished it so thoroughly that only the Wailing Wall remained.
        Truly, the Jews have no worse enemies than themselves. By the way, when are your next early elections?

        You are right in everything you wrote.
        Indeed, the Jews are so passionate that they managed to organize a civil war in besieged Jerusalem. There is such a sin.
        As I wrote, the price of the riot was dire. Catastrophic. But if they had not rebelled against the Greeks and Romans, most likely there would have been no Jewish people.
        And VO would be boring. :)
      2. Maki Avellevich
        Maki Avellevich 25 December 2020 13: 39
        0
        Quote: Nagan
        If I remember correctly, the Greeks were greatly constrained by the fact that there were Roman legions nearby (not in Egypt?). And Herod the Great, who picked up the crown of Judea when the Maccabean brothers somehow quickly and one after another fell a heroic death in the battles for the Motherland with the German Greco-fascist invaders, somehow very quickly and willingly lay down near Rome.

        you mixed a little.
        The McQuays chased the Greeks in 167-160 BC
        Herod ruled from 37 BC
  • Gato
    Gato 25 December 2020 01: 57
    0
    Would that change the bottom line? No.

    Of course not. The British could well have ensured a sea and air blockade of the islands, even without a landing. The consequences for a garrison of any size and preparedness would be sad due to the scarcity of local resources.
  • Andrei from Chelyabinsk
    Andrei from Chelyabinsk 25 December 2020 08: 03
    +2
    Quote: Korsar4
    And there was no normal comparable aviation.

    Just the opposite. The Argentines had it. The British did not have
  • Krasnodar
    Krasnodar 24 December 2020 06: 09
    +7
    Quote: apro
    Quote: Korsar4
    But the forces were too unequal. Argentina had no serious chances.

    A very controversial statement: to place normal aviation on the islands and the Britons had no chances.

    If we had time to build airfields on the islands with infrastructure that cannot be destroyed by missile salvoes from the British fleet, then yes, there’s no chance.
    1. Revolver
      Revolver 24 December 2020 06: 37
      +13
      Quote: Krasnodar
      If you had time

      And if my grandmother had the appropriate personal belongings, then she would be a transvestite grandfather ... no, probably a transgender ... or maybe a transsexual - ugh, I'm confused about who to consider them and how to call them politically correct.am
      1. Krasnodar
        Krasnodar 24 December 2020 07: 09
        +6
        Grandpa, just grandpa)).
        1. Revolver
          Revolver 24 December 2020 07: 38
          +7
          Quote: Krasnodar
          Grandpa, just grandpa)).

          Uh, no, a person with male primary sex characteristics (grandfather), but gender-identifying as a female person (grandmother), is trans person under the current rules of political correctness.
          wassat
          1. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 24 December 2020 11: 52
            +2
            Grandpa # 2
    2. Sergey Sfiedu
      Sergey Sfiedu 24 December 2020 21: 11
      +3
      "If you had time to build airfields on the islands with infrastructure that cannot be destroyed by missile salvos of the British fleet" - sorry, what volleys? The British did not have ship-to-ground missiles in the fleet, so no missile salvo of any fleet threatened the Argentine airfield. And the raids of the Volcanoes and Harriers on the existing airfield turned out to be surprisingly ineffective. It's just that the so-called. "Argentine military" did not have any plan for war with England. They innocently hoped that the Britons would wipe out and everything would be okay. If they had waited until Thatcher destroyed the fleet (and she had such plans, and she had already begun to implement them), might. the Britons would have wiped themselves. Well, the junta no longer has time to wait - their internal policy has completely failed and the fate of the rulers hung in the balance.
      1. Krasnodar
        Krasnodar 24 December 2020 21: 16
        +1
        Maybe so, I don't argue))
    3. vladcub
      vladcub 24 December 2020 21: 38
      +3
      And this is from the realm of fantasy. This is enough for piston fighters of WWII times, a flat field, and jet fighters will not be able to base on the ground.
      The Argentinean had to prepare an airfield, protected warehouses and caponiers. Try to do it all in a short time
      1. Krasnodar
        Krasnodar 24 December 2020 22: 10
        +1
        Here I am about the same
  • Andrei from Chelyabinsk
    Andrei from Chelyabinsk 25 December 2020 08: 02
    +1
    Quote: apro
    A very controversial statement. To place normal aviation on the islands

    They couldn't physically. There were no airfields capable of receiving modern fighters
  • Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Kote Pan Kokhanka 24 December 2020 06: 07
    +7
    In this case, not a thread, but a tail! Moreover, domestic animation proved he is the main one !!!
    Good morning and a big sandwich Sergey!
    1. Korsar4
      Korsar4 24 December 2020 06: 12
      +7
      Good morning Vladislav!
      This season of the year: tea and porridge are our everything.
  • Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Kote Pan Kokhanka 24 December 2020 06: 10
    +10
    By chance. If Argentina thoughtfully and competently prepared for the confrontation, then it would have chances. In this case, perhaps, only in Argentine.
    By the way, a referendum was held on the islands several years ago, in which local residents voted to be a part of the UK.
    1. Korsar4
      Korsar4 24 December 2020 06: 14
      +5
      Yes. The Anglo-Saxon and South American approach is very different.
  • 210ox
    210ox 24 December 2020 14: 27
    +3
    Yes, I was surprised that they managed to drown someone there. I read the memoirs of the British from Sheffield and the Conveyor. The first was sunk by anti-ship missiles, the second by bombs. And take this into account that the Argentines were tight with aviation. However, science, why would I be scared to climb where they will fuck you off.
    1. Avior
      Avior 24 December 2020 15: 14
      +1
      both RCC
      It was normal for them with aviation relative to the British.
    2. Jager
      Jager 24 December 2020 16: 15
      +2
      This was confirmed by Napoleon and Adolf ...
  • vladcub
    vladcub 24 December 2020 15: 42
    +1
    "Argentina did not have serious chances," but what about the fig when the generals wanted?
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 24 December 2020 05: 57
    +8
    I agree, about "cod wars" and that could have written more.
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 24 December 2020 06: 16
    +7
    Hello, Vlad!
    So I wonder why you persistently call Evgeny Fedor? what
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 24 December 2020 06: 30
      +6
      I confess - Evgeny Fedorov!
    2. vladcub
      vladcub 24 December 2020 21: 42
      +3
      Shh. This is an underground nickname so that envious people don't know
  • The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 24 December 2020 08: 16
    +3
    I agree with you.
    The author revealed in great detail the history of the conflict and the political background, but the military clash itself ...
    But there was an embargo on armaments, and semi-legal aid from Israel, technical curiosities of the air defense of the British Navy, a sapper's mistake that cost a ship, the last sorties of volcano bombers and much more ...
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 24 December 2020 14: 39
      +2
      Scorpions were also noted there. One of them, as the British assure, shot down the plane.
  • Hypertension
    Hypertension 24 December 2020 16: 00
    +1
    Quote: lexus
    Others would be nice to learn this experience.

    There are no others, but those farther ...
    Already on April 3, General Galtieri was applauded by the public, which just a few days ago demanded the resignation of the military junta. Still, more than a century of national pain is finally gone - the Malvinas Islands returned to Argentina.

    That the Falkland Islands, that Karabakh ... The spiral of history ...
  • IL-18
    IL-18 24 December 2020 23: 34
    0
    Quote: lexus
    Dofiga patriotism, but "no money, but you hold on." Others would be nice to learn this experience.

    Like: no money - no patriotism?
  • NEOZ
    NEOZ 25 December 2020 12: 49
    0
    Quote: lexus
    Others would be nice to learn this experience.

    who would it be?
  • Xnumx vis
    Xnumx vis 25 December 2020 21: 49
    -1
    Quote: lexus
    Dofiga patriotism, but "no money, but you hold on." Others would be nice to learn this experience.

    I understood the hint ... We are changing the flag ... We will give up the Crimea !?
  • zenion
    zenion 2 January 2021 21: 42
    0
    So Russia caught up with, or even surpassed Argentina, when it said that it wants independence from the rest of the republics? And, only then everyone realized that it was not Yeltsin who said and did it, it was Lenin in 1918 who planted a time bomb in the head of the Russian president. And now they raised a cry, for this bomb they need Lenin from the Mausoleum and put Yeltsin there. He has a palace in the Urals, but there is no decent zaheron, give Yeltsin a Mausoleum!
  • Vladimir_2U
    Vladimir_2U 24 December 2020 05: 03
    +7
    Yes, there were times when our country bought grain from the other side of the world.
    We’re undernourished, but we’ll take it out, much worse!
    1. Olgovich
      Olgovich 24 December 2020 07: 11
      -12%
      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      Yes, there were times when our country bought grain from the other side of the world.
      We’re undernourished, but we’ll take it out, much worse!

      Everything is bad; in the first case, the country, formerly an exporter of grain, after ten years of "brilliant" "successes" in agriculture .... was unable to produce grain.

      In your case, it's even worse: hungry grain exports to the hungry peaceful years 1931,32,33 36,37,39,46, 47 with millions of deaths from hunger and cannibalism
      1. Vladimir_2U
        Vladimir_2U 24 December 2020 07: 15
        +4
        Quote: Olgovich
        In your version, it is even worse: hungry grain exports in the hungry peace years of 1931,32,33 36,37,39,40 with millions of deaths from hunger and cannibalism
        Olgych forgot about 21-23 and 47 years. Why? Because the deceitful Russophobe is from over the hill.
      2. Astra wild2
        Astra wild2 24 December 2020 19: 40
        +1
        Olgovich, you used to be more careful with the numbers, but here you frankly missed and your colleague Vladimir pointed out to you.
        My advice: next time, DO NOT rush to write a comment, but double-check everything and think.
        R.
        S
        I am your ideological opponent, but I noted that they knew how to select facts, and now, instead of facts, emotions.
        And emotions are more of a sign of DEFEAT.
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 24 December 2020 22: 42
          +3
          Quote: Astra wild2
          Olgovich, you used to be more accurate with numbers, but here you frankly missed and your colleague Vladimir pointed out to you

          Dear Mom's joy, I did not miss and indicated the years in which I was export of bread and hungeroften with death

          A B 1921-22 there was no export (there was hunger) -therefore, the years are not indicated

          Everything is logical.

          Or what confused you? Specifically?

          I'm afraid nothing ...
          Quote: Astra wild2
          R.
          S
          I am your ideological opponent, but I noted that they knew how to select facts, and now, instead of facts, emotions.
          And emotions are more of a sign of DEFEAT.

          Unreasonable nit-picking is, rather, a sign of annoyed INOBJECTIVITY.
          1. Astra wild2
            Astra wild2 25 December 2020 14: 38
            0
            Did you leave me?
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 25 December 2020 15: 23
              +1
              Quote: Astra wild2
              Did you leave me?

              Not understood... request

              I explained the reasons for specifying these particular years, and the reason for NOT specifying similar, but different.

              Все.

              There was no intention of hurting you.

              Sorry if that. recourse
              1. Astra wild2
                Astra wild2 25 December 2020 15: 55
                +1
                I like your correctness. Many people miss this
  • Far B
    Far B 24 December 2020 05: 03
    0
    While the Argentine contingent in the Falklands was waiting for the arrival of British forces, the Americans tried with all their might to resolve the issue peacefully ... It is not hard to guess who the United States chose in this story. On April 30, 1982, this country officially announced its support for the UK.
    I heard that Reagan's choice was influenced by his phone call to the Argentine, ahem, leader. He was drunk in a zyuzu, he was hardly woken up, and he explained to Reagan with a braided tongue who he really was. Reagan did not appreciate the frankness of his interlocutor.
    1. Korsar4
      Korsar4 24 December 2020 05: 19
      +8
      The Monroe Doctrine, like any other declaration, can be used as conveniently.
  • Korsar4
    Korsar4 24 December 2020 05: 15
    +10
    It is interesting how events are first perceived in the Chronicle section. And then 35 years will pass - and already history.

    The phrase about Argentines who prefer to spend their earnings away from their country is not only suitable for Argentina.
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 24 December 2020 06: 05
      +7
      It is interesting how events are first perceived in the Chronicle section.
      There was no such heading in the Murzilka magazine. And in '82 he interested me more than the program "Time"
      1. Korsar4
        Korsar4 24 December 2020 06: 09
        +5
        One of the first conflicts I tried to follow.

        The most vivid memories from childhood: even the Falklands conflict, even the 1982 World Cup.
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 24 December 2020 06: 25
          +7
          Quote: 3x3zsave
          It is interesting how events are first perceived in the Chronicle section.
          There was no such heading in the Murzilka magazine. And in '82 he interested me more than the program "Time"

          Quote: Korsar4
          One of the first conflicts I tried to follow.
          Awareness of superiority in age! I couldn't read yet.
          The most vivid memories from childhood: even the Falklands conflict, even the 1982 World Cup.

          An overwhelming awareness of insignificance, of their problems in December 1982.
          As far as I remember in those ancient times, I once again got the role of a "bunny" in connection with which I thoughtfully studied a New Year's rhyme and practiced "jumping-jumping".
          1. Korsar4
            Korsar4 24 December 2020 06: 34
            +6
            There is no competition between sixth graders and kindergarteners in any sport.

            “A ray of the future shines for me.
            I am reasoning simply:
            I wish I was under fifty
            That she is ninety "(c).
            1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
              Kote Pan Kokhanka 24 December 2020 07: 00
              +7
              For that, I could, with impunity, stick a snowball in the eye of a sixth grader and not get an answer for the collar - however, provided that there is at least one adult nearby. recourse that's how insidious I am !!!
              1. Korsar4
                Korsar4 24 December 2020 07: 23
                +5
                Now I remembered how the school was asked to go to kindergarten. They liked it. One of them said goodbye to the belly with his fist: "So that you must come." But, probably, already in older classes.
        2. Trilobite Master
          Trilobite Master 24 December 2020 11: 18
          +8
          Quote: Korsar4
          One of the first conflicts I tried to follow.

          One of the first conflicts that I remember as a contemporary smile
          In 1981 (certainly not later) my parents bought a political map of the world and hung it for me in the hallway. I remember that Great Britain was green on this map, and Argentina was gray. Along her left, a yellow stripe was in the form of Chile. But these very islands were marked with white and next to them was the inscription: "Falkland (Malvinas) Islands (disputed)"
          That is, they were "controversial." long before the start of the actual conflict, apparently, Argentina made some claims on them and tried to resolve the issue diplomatically first. Am I missing something or was it missing in the article?
          I remember the conflict itself, but only that it was, and that the British won.
          But I remember the 1982 World Championship - it was my first championship, which I watched and rooted for ours.
          In the afternoon - football with the boys. "I am Rummenigge!", "And I am Blokhin!", "And I am Platini!" And in the evening - TV. For the first time I felt disgusting powerlessness when I watched the USSR-Poland match, a 0: 0 draw and ours were out ... Together with the adults, I scolded Ramaz Shengelia, like it was because of him that they could not win. Then he rooted for the Italians against the Brazilians and in the final against the Germans. Paolo Rossi is my hero! And "Bonek" and "Smolyarek" were dirty curses for a long time. smile
          1. Van 16
            Van 16 24 December 2020 11: 36
            +5
            Italy - Brazil and Germany - France is still one of the most exciting things I've seen in football hi
          2. Mihaylov
            Mihaylov 24 December 2020 11: 56
            +5
            Quote: Trilobite Master
            But I remember the 1982 World Championship - it was my first championship, which I watched and rooted for ours.

            And my first championship was in 1986, when Maradona shone.
            I still remember well the game Argentina - England and the "hand of God". Then I did not understand yet that this match has a subtext, to which this article is devoted. hi
          3. Avior
            Avior 24 December 2020 15: 18
            +1
            Argentina made some claims on them and tried to resolve the issue diplomatically at first.

            presented after the creation of the UN and on the basis of decisions on the liberation of the colonies.
            but the British treated the population of the islands as a separate colony from Argentina.
            1. Trilobite Master
              Trilobite Master 24 December 2020 15: 26
              +1
              Yes, I already looked like that for the sake of interest. For me, both the legal argumentation is rather weak.
              1. Sergey Sfiedu
                Sergey Sfiedu 24 December 2020 21: 20
                +2
                Strictly speaking, Argentine claims are generally ridiculous. Well, next to the island lay. They could not master it. It is not enough to declare the islands your own, you also have to make them your own. The only governor general was slapped by his fellow citizens. The islands have become an uncontrolled base for whalers, smugglers and pirates. And after a century and a half, waving your fists is ridiculous. Moreover, they are not needed - they cannot master their Patagonia and Tierra del Fuego, although the climate there is better.
          4. Korsar4
            Korsar4 24 December 2020 16: 09
            +3
            Yes. Feeling like time flies away, and the pole with the ball is on our corner flag.
            Matches Germany - France and Italy - Brazil - in the golden fund of football.

            Dino Zoff, Gentile, Conti and of course Rossi.
            Platini and Rumennige. And Brazil with Zico and Socrates.


            And I also saw the postscript on the map about the islands (controversial).

            It looks like "On some ABC books" (c).
            1. Trilobite Master
              Trilobite Master 24 December 2020 21: 30
              +3
              When in our village field one kid tried to repeat the "Polish trick" at the corner of the field, he was immediately and rudely taken out with the words "do not you (pendri) hang out." They argued that it almost never came to fights who was cooler - Rummenigge or Rossi. Or like this: "Your Dino Zoff is prarasha, Socrates threw him into the near corner! Dasaev is cooler!" "Come on, Schumaiher is the coolest!"
              Okay, we'll also see how Russia in the World Cup final will win Ukraine 5: 4 in extra time. Having previously ripped out the Germans, Italians and Brazilians - all from three. smile
              1. Korsar4
                Korsar4 24 December 2020 21: 36
                +3
                Pele promised that this will happen after the successes of the Brazilian hockey players.
    2. Bolt cutter
      Bolt cutter 24 December 2020 11: 20
      +2
      about Argentines who prefer to spend their earnings away from their country
      Uruguay's Punta del Este has been transformed by Argentine money. And Montevideo fell.
    3. Alexander Grizodub
      Alexander Grizodub 26 December 2020 03: 30
      0
      Our situation is rather the opposite, the ruble exchange rate is significantly undervalued, not overvalued. I used to be able to fly to the warm seas in winter, now it's costly. It is more profitable to spend at home.
  • Cherry Nine
    Cherry Nine 24 December 2020 05: 28
    +5
    What should be interesting in this case for a (post) Soviet reader?

    That atomic weapons do not solve. At all.
    1. Vladimir_2U
      Vladimir_2U 24 December 2020 10: 30
      +1
      Quote: Cherry Nine
      What should be interesting in this case for a (post) Soviet reader?

      That atomic weapons do not solve. At all.
      For those who are smarter, it was clear according to Damansky, that is why tanks with helicopters were riveted.
      1. Cherry Nine
        Cherry Nine 24 December 2020 10: 35
        +3
        Quote: Vladimir_2U
        it was clear according to Damansky

        This should have been clear from the 48 Berlin Crisis and Korea.
        1. Vladimir_2U
          Vladimir_2U 24 December 2020 10: 42
          +1
          Quote: Cherry Nine
          This should have been clear from the 48 Berlin Crisis and Korea.
          There was no nuclear missile potential in 48 at all, and in 51 there was no missile potential, and the nuclear one was not impressive, although it may have prevented the US from using nuclear weapons against North Korea.
          1. Cherry Nine
            Cherry Nine 24 December 2020 10: 48
            +1
            Quote: Vladimir_2U
            There was no nuclear missile potential in 48 at all, and in 51 there was no missile potential, and the nuclear one was not impressive.

            Yes. And nevertheless, the United States was attacked, albeit "half a bite." As for Korea, this meant primarily the Chinese "volunteers" who were not impressed at all by nuclear weapons.
            1. Vladimir_2U
              Vladimir_2U 24 December 2020 10: 55
              +1
              Quote: Cherry Nine
              And nevertheless, the United States was attacked, albeit "half a bite"

              Staaa?
              1. Cherry Nine
                Cherry Nine 24 December 2020 10: 58
                +1
                Is there any news for you that in Berlin, including the American garrison, was blocked? If the same Azerbaijanis stop letting someone in and out of Gyumri, how will you understand that?
                1. Vladimir_2U
                  Vladimir_2U 24 December 2020 11: 06
                  +2
                  Quote: Cherry Nine
                  Is there any news for you that in Berlin, including the American garrison, was blocked? If the same Azerbaijanis stop letting someone in and out of Gyumri, how will you understand that?
                  Compare the great, albeit nuclear-free, at that time power with Azerbaijan ?! Well, the air bridge, it somehow contradicts the "attack". Although yes, I understood the idea, despite the absolute superiority in nuclear weapons (even absolute) of the United States zass. were embarrassed to deal with the problem by armed force.
                  1. Cherry Nine
                    Cherry Nine 24 December 2020 11: 35
                    +2
                    Quote: Vladimir_2U
                    at that time to compare the state with Azerbaijan ?!

                    Yes of course. By the way, nothing will happen to Azerbaijan either, tomatoes have already been banned, and there are no more trump cards.
                    Quote: Vladimir_2U
                    Well, the air bridge, it somehow contradicts the "attack"

                    Half a bump, he said.
                    Quote: Vladimir_2U
                    USA zass. were embarrassed to deal with the problem by armed force.

                    Yes. Truman has elections in November, which, to put it mildly, are difficult, and it is not with his hands to make such a mess. But in the 50th it was already another matter. But even in the 50s, they did not begin to resolve the issue with the USSR and even the PRC as a whole, although there were no particular problems.
                    1. Vladimir_2U
                      Vladimir_2U 24 December 2020 11: 39
                      +3
                      Quote: Cherry Nine
                      although there were no particular problems
                      Well, yes, "Alley of MiGs", for example, is not a problem at all. And the millionth CA, already with nuclear weapons, is not a problem in Europe either.
                      1. Cherry Nine
                        Cherry Nine 24 December 2020 12: 16
                        0
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        Well, yes, MiG Alley, for example, is not a problem at all.

                        Of course not. She didn't even stop anyone in Korea.
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        And the millionth CA, already with nuclear weapons, is also not a problem in Europe.

                        Moreover, do not care. The US is not in Europe.
                      2. Essex62
                        Essex62 25 December 2020 07: 19
                        +1
                        Now, if Uncle Joe did not stop at the Elba, but bathed the Naglosaki Caudle in diesel fuel in view of the Portuguese and French coasts. It would be very difficult to spit through a puddle. And the world now would be sooo completely different.
                        We got minke whales on the nose, Korea still stands today. The USSR fulfilled the task with minimal effort.
                      3. Cherry Nine
                        Cherry Nine 25 December 2020 09: 36
                        0
                        Quote: Essex62
                        Now, if Uncle Joe hadn't stopped at the Elbe,

                        OH YEAH!!!!!!

                        I love the "Unthinkable" -srachi! My favorite topic. The second (alas, not the last) time the Entente allowed the Reds to survive and grow stronger, I hate them for that.

                        You thought well, get involved with me in such a discussion?
                      4. Essex62
                        Essex62 25 December 2020 13: 22
                        +1
                        I said everything. I do not need to discuss with such gentlemen. Senseless "shaking the Internet." The essence of the discus is to try to convince the apponent, utopia. Only calibrated arguments are good.
                      5. Cherry Nine
                        Cherry Nine 25 December 2020 13: 25
                        +1
                        Quote: Essex62
                        I have said everything.

                        It is clear, Shit under the door and run away, a well-known topic.

                        And the essence of the discourse with the weirdest characters is to identify gaps in your own argumentation, no more and no less.
  • Van 16
    Van 16 24 December 2020 05: 34
    +8
    It was very interesting to read. Moreover, in fact, everything happened before our eyes. And indeed, somehow it imperceptibly became history.
    1. Catfish
      Catfish 24 December 2020 06: 04
      +11
      Moreover, in fact, everything happened before our eyes.


      True, everyone closely followed the course of hostilities and frankly rejoiced at the successes of the Argentine Air Force.



      Very spectacular explosion of the ammunition cellars of the frigate "Antiloup"



      Sheffield was on fire for a long time, burned out and drowned.

      And the British nuclear submarine Conqueror sank the ancient Argentine cruiser General Belgrano.

      1. Sergey Sfiedu
        Sergey Sfiedu 24 December 2020 21: 27
        +1
        I was then 100% patriot. But he was not happy about the Argentine successes - firstly, the Argentines were the aggressors. Secondly, the junta was anti-communists, and, frankly, fascists (I read the magazine Problems of Peace and Socialism, so I had an idea), Thirdly, Hermes and Invincible reminded me very much of Kiev and I involuntarily compared - and if we were in the place of the Britons, would we have done it?
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 25 December 2020 04: 21
          +2
          Many knew about the fact that the junta was pro-fascist, but they really wanted the "mistress of the seas" to kick their ass, because every successful attack of the Argentines was a joy for everyone. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend", a proverb as old as the world.))
          As for the "Kiev": it is hardly worth comparing it with British aircraft carriers, "Kiev" is, indeed, "half" a cruiser, and the British are "clean" aircraft carriers. And as for "coped", I am sure that - yes, then our fleet was much more powerful than the British. hi
          1. Lexus
            Lexus 25 December 2020 14: 06
            +1
            Kostya hi ,
            unfortunately, our fleet now remains "either good or not" (C). I can’t bring myself to rejoice at the present, with, in fact, piece, nominal, longboats and lifebuoys ... You look, soon the "ducks" will be issued as combat units ...
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 25 December 2020 15: 14
              +2
              Political will is needed for everything, and nothing will come of it. request negative
              1. Lexus
                Lexus 25 December 2020 16: 57
                +1
                Thimblers don't know any other way ... and don't want to.
    2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 24 December 2020 06: 04
      +5
      Well, depending on how! laughing
      I'm afraid I had much more important and urgent problems in the middle group of the kindergarten than the confrontations between Argentina and Britain.
      soldier
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 24 December 2020 06: 44
        +5
        "Eh kindergarten share-share,
        Rattle, striped mattress "(C)
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 24 December 2020 07: 03
          +6
          Yes, I am only surprised by my rash and unreasonable desire of those years to go to school! Oh, if I knew, I would stay for the "second year"! laughing
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 24 December 2020 07: 08
            +6
            This is yes!
            "Why didn't you tell me that this idiot is for 10 years !!!"
            1. Korsar4
              Korsar4 24 December 2020 07: 47
              +4
              I wonder how many of them are in vain?
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 24 December 2020 08: 05
                +5
                I have one, the last one. I had to study, and I drank beer, hung out and dragged myself after the girls.
                1. Korsar4
                  Korsar4 24 December 2020 09: 08
                  +4
                  I stopped doing class lessons from the 4th - 5th. What he loved - and so he loved.

                  I got it on the brains on admission - I went through a semi-pass ball. And at the first session - I was on the verge of expulsion.

                  But there is something to remember.
                  1. 3x3zsave
                    3x3zsave 24 December 2020 09: 14
                    +3
                    About the same, only I didn't get a point.
                    1. Korsar4
                      Korsar4 24 December 2020 10: 29
                      +2
                      Which university and what specialty?
                      1. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 24 December 2020 10: 38
                        +3
                        Petrozavodsk University, History Department.
                      2. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 24 December 2020 16: 11
                        +2
                        Been there a couple of times. At the Faculty of Forestry.
  • Comrade
    Comrade 24 December 2020 05: 44
    +10
    I followed the events of this war with great interest.
    I remember that after the end of the conflict in Krasnaya Zvezda, with reference to a foreign source, information flashed that one of the British nuclear missile submarines had been moved into the combat zone. It was supposed, if something went wrong with the British, to launch a nuclear strike on Argentina. The purpose (s) of the nuclear attack were not indicated in the newspaper article.
    It turns out that the British were quite serious.
    the British sank the outdated Argentine cruiser General Belgrano with impunity

    But the Argentines also did not blunder, the picture shows the sinking destroyer "Coventry".
    1. Korsar4
      Korsar4 24 December 2020 05: 55
      +7
      As far as I remember, Argentina sank both Sheffield and Coventry.
      1. Comrade
        Comrade 24 December 2020 05: 59
        +11
        And not only them. Considering that the Argentine aviation operated at the maximum range, it can be considered that the Argentine pilots showed themselves quite worthy.
        The British fleet did not seem to be enough there.
        1. Korsar4
          Korsar4 24 December 2020 06: 07
          +5
          Конечно.
          I have already noted that not all the bombs have exploded yet.

          It is true that the British had certain problems in the struggle for survivability.
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 24 December 2020 06: 33
            +7
            They had French Exocet aircraft missiles, the one that hit the Chief did not have a warhead, but the engine flame was enough to set fire to the aluminum alloy hull structures, synthetics and cable sheath caught fire. "Chief" completely burned out and sank in a week while being towed. 20 people were killed.
            So there were problems with missiles.
            1. Korsar4
              Korsar4 24 December 2020 06: 43
              +5
              Absolutely.
              At the same time, the British bought the first "Exocets".

              Apparently, the good Flying Fish from the French came out.
              1. Catfish
                Catfish 24 December 2020 06: 59
                +5
                In general, the brand is well-known, including ATGMs of various options, but the Argentines did not even work every other time, but as God will put it. If everything went as it had to go, the losses of the British would be much higher.
                By the way, twenty years ago, quite by chance I saw a dock on TV. a film of an interview with the pilot of "Skyhawk", the one who planted a rocket in "Chief". He told in detail how they sneaked up to the target and how they left there.
                1. Korsar4
                  Korsar4 24 December 2020 07: 01
                  +4
                  Did not see.

                  But the radars of the British could not cope with the low-flying Exosets.
                2. Walking
                  Walking 24 December 2020 10: 32
                  +2
                  The Exocets used the Super Etandars, not the Skyhawks. Skyhawks used bombs.
                  1. Catfish
                    Catfish 24 December 2020 11: 13
                    +2
                    You are right, I was wrong. The Argentine Air Force had six of the latest Super-Etandar fighter-bombers, but only five were "operational".
                    At that time, the Argentines had only six air-launched anti-ship missiles.
                    Still, the greatest number of British losses was from the raids of the old Skyhawk A-4 attack aircraft.
      2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 24 December 2020 06: 15
        +5
        At the same time, she lost frank trash.
        I think if the hot South American guys were concerned with long-range anti-ship aircraft, then the alignment was different.
        1. Korsar4
          Korsar4 24 December 2020 06: 16
          +3
          They didn't bother.
          And it's hard to imagine that the British are ready to endure a slap in the face.
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 24 December 2020 06: 48
            +5
            Easy. I did not mention the "crash wars" for nothing.
            1. Korsar4
              Korsar4 24 December 2020 06: 59
              +4
              Yes. Noticed.
              But there is a difference: one thing is the area around Iceland. The other is the land over which the Union Jack is.

              England had enough economic problems then. But here they are already hacked to death for the principle.
              1. Sergey Sfiedu
                Sergey Sfiedu 24 December 2020 21: 33
                +2
                The British had lost the whole empire before. Have endured.
                1. Korsar4
                  Korsar4 24 December 2020 21: 37
                  0
                  There is a period of the collapse of empires. But it also has a certain framework.
        2. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 24 December 2020 06: 49
          +3
          They simply didn't have the dough for it.
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 24 December 2020 07: 24
            +4
            They did not have the necessary ships for such operations, for nothing they used the Atlantic Conveyor container ship as an aircraft carrier, and they sunk it, of course.

            And this landing ship "Sir Tristan" is returned home on a "stretcher", too horrible.
            1. Korsar4
              Korsar4 24 December 2020 07: 48
              +2
              And yet this Round Table Host worked.
              1. Catfish
                Catfish 24 December 2020 08: 01
                +5
                Yes, there was also "Sir Gallahad", if I'm not mistaken.

                And this is the brave British storming a chicken coop in the Falklands.

                Battle painting, you understand!

                Well, the result ...
                1. Korsar4
                  Korsar4 24 December 2020 08: 52
                  +4
                  And it was Argentina who first went through the escort.
                2. Walking
                  Walking 24 December 2020 10: 34
                  +3
                  Sir Gallahad was just sunk
                  1. Catfish
                    Catfish 24 December 2020 10: 50
                    +4
                    Yes, Argentine Air Force stormtroopers burned the Sir Galahad during the landing at Bluff Cove. By that time, most of the Marines landed, however, 40 people were burned down with the ship.
      3. Vladimir_2U
        Vladimir_2U 24 December 2020 10: 33
        +2
        Even without searching on the Web I remember: "Sheffield", "Coventry", "Ardent", "Sir Galahad", "Atlantic Coveyer". And at least a couple of bombs !!! drowned.
    2. Avior
      Avior 24 December 2020 15: 22
      +2
      It turns out that the British were quite serious.

      in fact, they did not plan such a strike and, in general, the use of nuclear weapons in a conflict, whatever its outcome
    3. Sergey Sfiedu
      Sergey Sfiedu 24 December 2020 21: 31
      -1
      "In" Krasnaya Zvezda "information flashed with reference to a foreign source" - they also write a lot on the fence. And to believe in the "Red Star" of those years - not to respect yourself. Both the Americans and all the Europeans looked askance at the Britons - why hadn't the world solved the problem before? Thatcher was not a scumbag, doing stupid things - not in her style.
  • Fitter65
    Fitter65 24 December 2020 07: 20
    +5
    The calculation was simple - foreign investors and corporations are importing technology to Argentina,
    "The West will help us!" - a classic of the genre ...
  • parusnik
    parusnik 24 December 2020 07: 43
    +5
    Scrap metal, you can't fight much ..
  • Viktor Sergeev
    Viktor Sergeev 24 December 2020 07: 53
    +2
    Why was this article written about anything? They would write simply: Argentina captured, the British came and hung them up, as a result the useless island again became English.
    1. Sergey Oreshin
      Sergey Oreshin 24 December 2020 10: 10
      +2
      About the fact that "no one needs an island" is debatable. Yet the strategic importance of the Falklands in the South Atlantic and on the routes leading to South America and Antarctica is great
      1. Viktor Sergeev
        Viktor Sergeev 24 December 2020 10: 56
        0
        It would be strategic if a good war was outlined or a transshipment base for goods was needed, but these are rocks that are of little interest to anyone at the present time, but a matter of principle is more important than reason. If it were a strategic island, then the British would have kept good forces there, but it's easier to swim once every couple of decades, smash Argentina (if it climbs) and back to England, drink tea ..
        1. Bolt cutter
          Bolt cutter 24 December 2020 11: 25
          +2
          rocks of little interest
          Fishing in those waters is excellent. And the fish is expensive today. And the principle.
        2. Sergey Oreshin
          Sergey Oreshin 24 December 2020 14: 26
          +1
          Why do you evaluate only from the standpoint of the last decades?
          If we talk about the South Atlantic, then there the rivalry of the great powers began in the 16th century. and the interest in the Falklands was not accidental. This dispute has been going on for centuries
      2. Avior
        Avior 24 December 2020 15: 23
        +1
        For the British, not Argentina
  • Undecim
    Undecim 24 December 2020 08: 41
    +9
    In December 2017, it was reported that the Soviet satellite Kosmos 1346 (Tselina-D reconnaissance satellite No. 34), launched on March 31, 1982 at 19:27 Moscow time, on the Vostok rocket went out of orbit and ceased to exist over Chile. -2M "from the Plesetsk cosmodrome.

    A little later, an interview with retired colonel Viktor Gavrilov appeared that Kosmos-1346 during the Falklands War allowed the USSR to “track the situation in the South Atlantic” and “determine the time and place of the British landing in the Falklands” with an accuracy of several hours.
    But the same data was intercepted by the Norwegian station Fauske II and transmitted to the British, which allowed them "with an accuracy of several hours" to track the movement of Argentine ships.

    It was with the help of this data that the British submarine was brought to the Argentine cruiser General Belgrano.
    1. Catfish
      Catfish 24 December 2020 08: 50
      +5
      Vic, good morning. hi And I remember how our media "rang all the bells" that the Americans are supplying the British with their satellite information and other intelligence. Maybe, after all, not only from us the British had such information.
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 24 December 2020 08: 59
        +6
        The Americans did not have much with that area. Their satellite of similar purpose Vortex Falklands did not block, apparently. Somewhere I came across information that they even tried to change its orbit. It is necessary to clarify whether these satellites could correct the orbit.

        In any case, the British call information from Soviet satellites "fantastically valuable."
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 24 December 2020 09: 02
          +5
          Here are the niggards, even if they gave half a liter to the general secretary. laughing
          1. Undecim
            Undecim 24 December 2020 09: 03
            +6
            Then the General Secretary was no longer up to half a liter.
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 24 December 2020 09: 05
              +5
              I meant purely symbolically, as a token of gratitude for the help provided, albeit unintentional.
    2. Bolt cutter
      Bolt cutter 24 December 2020 11: 29
      +2
      using this data and deduced
      At the Portsmouth Museum, the tour guide, who served on the Conqueror, but a little after these events, said that the Argentinian rumbled so much that it was impossible to detect him, "like a coffee can with bolts."
      1. Bolt cutter
        Bolt cutter 24 December 2020 11: 34
        +1
        Here is their flag at the museum stand - mark the core icon and the silhouette of the Argentine. The periscope (the same one) is also in the museum. You can even look through it.
        1. Bolt cutter
          Bolt cutter 24 December 2020 11: 51
          +1
          And here is the workplace of the navigator of the HMS Alliance, which was the excursion.
          1. Undecim
            Undecim 24 December 2020 13: 20
            +5
            And here is the workplace of the navigator of the HMS Alliance, which was the excursion.
            I, of course, am not a submariner, but this does not look like a navigator's table. It should be like this.
            1. Bolt cutter
              Bolt cutter 24 December 2020 13: 24
              +1
              I am certainly not a submariner
              I'm not a submariner either. A similar table was behind this chair. And a chair for the "pilot" of the submarine. Was the helmsman sitting there? (I don’t know exactly how it is called on the submarines) Since 2017, I have forgotten a little. We still have to go.
              1. Undecim
                Undecim 24 December 2020 13: 38
                +3
                One of the helmsmen.
                1. Bolt cutter
                  Bolt cutter 24 December 2020 13: 52
                  +2
                  And what is this boat?
                  1. Undecim
                    Undecim 24 December 2020 13: 53
                    +3
                    HMS Alliance.
                    1. Bolt cutter
                      Bolt cutter 24 December 2020 13: 56
                      +2
                      From what year?
                      1. Bolt cutter
                        Bolt cutter 24 December 2020 14: 04
                        +2
                        The dive helm station is just behind the helmsman and his seat.
                      2. Undecim
                        Undecim 24 December 2020 14: 10
                        +3
                        Sorry, typo. That's right - HMS Otus.
                      3. Bolt cutter
                        Bolt cutter 24 December 2020 14: 18
                        +3
                        That’s what I think, I don’t remember all the details. Also, probably because my whole mini trip ended here, on the "bridge"
                      4. Bolt cutter
                        Bolt cutter 24 December 2020 14: 34
                        +3
                        And here notthe helmsman of the HMS Ocelot was conveniently located.
  • Undecim
    Undecim 24 December 2020 11: 38
    +7
    He began to "rumble" from the moment he entered the range of the GAS in passive mode.
    Before that, you had to know where to find him. The ocean, in comparison with the ship, is much larger in area.
  • T.Henks
    T.Henks 24 December 2020 21: 50
    -1
    A little later, an interview with retired colonel Viktor Gavrilov appeared that Kosmos-1346 during the Falklands War allowed the USSR to “track the situation in the South Atlantic” and “determine the time and place of the British landing in the Falklands” with an accuracy of several hours.
    But the same data was intercepted by the Norwegian station Fauske II and transmitted to the British, which allowed them "with an accuracy of several hours" to track the movement of Argentine ships.
    I am tormented by vague doubts. Do you know this from your job or from rumors? Was the video broadcast directly to Ostankino?
    1. Undecim
      Undecim 24 December 2020 22: 44
      +2
      I am tormented by vague doubts.
      Doubt is not constipation, not scary.
      ,
      Suspected Norway's FISINT (TELINT) and ELINT station, Fauske.
      Are you still sure that satellites from orbit transmit pictures in envelopes?
      1. T.Henks
        T.Henks 25 December 2020 16: 55
        0
        In pursuit of doubts. At 84 I had the opportunity to touch on this topic. In addition to 5-CHARACTER printouts, I saw nothing. And it is unlikely that the ZAS was so easy to decipher everything. What we have, what they have. True, then I learned about the NSA for the first time. I was very surprised. They could. From there, and the legs about the American trail about the guidance on ships could go. And the NSA intercept station was not in Norway. Can I ask Snowden?
  • The eye of the crying
    The eye of the crying 25 December 2020 00: 11
    0
    Quote: Undecim
    But the same data was intercepted by the Norwegian station Fauske II and transmitted to the British.


    Were they transmitted unencrypted? belay
    1. Undecim
      Undecim 25 December 2020 01: 04
      +2
      Isn't encrypted information decrypted?
      If everything were that simple, no one would invest huge resources in systems like ECHELON.
      1. The eye of the crying
        The eye of the crying 25 December 2020 02: 56
        0
        Quote: Undecim
        Isn't encrypted information decrypted?


        Let's say it carefully: when using a strong cipher, by outsiders in real time - no, it is not decrypted.

        Quote: Undecim
        If everything were that simple, no one would invest huge resources in systems like ECHELON.


        I would invest. For many reasons, one of which is that a lot of information is transmitted unencrypted.
  • Liam
    Liam 25 December 2020 10: 51
    +1
    Quote: Undecim
    interview with retired colonel Viktor Gavrilov about

    Quote: Undecim
    interview with retired colonel Viktor Gavrilov about

    Viktor Aleksandrovich Gavrilov - retired colonel, leading researcher at the Scientific Research Institute (Military History) of the Military Academy of the General Staff of the RF Armed Forces, Candidate of Psychology
    It is unlikely that a friend is highly competent in the topic.
    1. Undecim
      Undecim 25 December 2020 11: 23
      +3
      In the subject of what? That "Cosmos - 1346" is an electronic intelligence satellite? So this is a well-known fact.
      Its launch time and orbital parameters are also known, by which it is possible to see which areas it controlled. The fact that the USSR followed the British and Argentine ships with the attraction of all available means is also well known.
      What are the doubts?
      1. Liam
        Liam 25 December 2020 11: 25
        +1
        Quote: Undecim
        In the subject of what? That "Cosmos - 1346" is an electronic intelligence satellite? So this is a well-known fact.
        Its launch time and orbital parameters are also known, by which it is possible to see which areas it controlled. The fact that the USSR followed the British and Argentine ships with the attraction of all available means is also well known.
        What are the doubts?

        In a detective story with the British intercepting his data.
        You can English. sources about it?
        1. Undecim
          Undecim 25 December 2020 12: 22
          +2
          Did I refer to him somewhere about data interception?
          https://web.archive.org/web/20090629035444/http://www.nrk.no/programmer/tv/brennpunkt/1861285.html
          The film itself can also be found on the net. But there is Norwegian.
  • Aviator_
    Aviator_ 24 December 2020 08: 56
    +5
    Some short article, not described attacks of Argentine "Superethander" at the limit of range, with several refueling. There are pictures of "Antilope" burning, where is this picture from the author? The British then got it decently. Another thing is that the ground forces of Argentina were nothing at all, I'm not sure that they were shooting towards the British at all.
    1. Sergey Oreshin
      Sergey Oreshin 24 December 2020 10: 05
      +1
      They were shooting, and the British had losses. But, of course, in a ground operation, the British utterly defeated the Argentines.
      1. Aviator_
        Aviator_ 24 December 2020 21: 17
        +1
        and the British had losses.

        Wasn't it a friendly fire by chance?
        1. Sergey Oreshin
          Sergey Oreshin 26 December 2020 10: 19
          +2
          There was such a thing, but there were also casualties from the Argentine fire, especially during the battles for the heights at Port Stanley. Although, of course, the gap in losses there was colossal
    2. Vladimir_2U
      Vladimir_2U 24 December 2020 10: 36
      0
      Quote: Aviator_
      attacks of Argentine "Super-Enders" at the limit of range, with several refueling.
      As far as I remember, the Argentines were only trying to organize the duty of tankers, but having lost one, they abandoned this idea. I could be wrong, I will not scour the network about this.
      1. Sergey Sfiedu
        Sergey Sfiedu 24 December 2020 21: 37
        +1
        The duty could not, but there were target departures. In particular, the "Super-Etandars" refueled in the air.
        1. Vladimir_2U
          Vladimir_2U 25 December 2020 03: 08
          +1
          Quote: Sergey Sfyedu
          The duty could not, but there were target departures.

          ATP, reminded.
    3. Walking
      Walking 24 December 2020 10: 38
      +1
      Here on the site there were already detailed descriptions of the Anglo-Argentine conflict there are many photos there.
  • Sergey Oreshin
    Sergey Oreshin 24 December 2020 10: 05
    +3
    Some kind of scanty article ended in the main part.
    Or will there be a continuation?
    Because the British ground operation in the Falklands is a classic of military art. They surrounded and defeated the Argentines in an exemplary manner.
    In general, you can reveal in detail, say, the battles for the heights around Port Stanley - a decisive part of the campaign, during which the British showed the upper class and utterly destroyed the Argentine units
    1. Fat
      Fat 24 December 2020 20: 44
      0
      Sergey, the topic is not the first time on the site, do not blame the article. In general, 3 months of the war for a scanty piece of sushi is an ass!
      this is a classic of military art. They surrounded and defeated the Argentines in an exemplary manner.

      Uh-huh ... I drank kefir and cried when one of the main members of NATO heroically smashed the Armed Forces of a supernumerary, by and large, country ...
  • evgen1221
    evgen1221 24 December 2020 11: 18
    +1
    After reading the beginning of the article, there are some parallels with our country, adjusted for a good army.
  • Glory1974
    Glory1974 24 December 2020 12: 24
    +3
    One-sided article. The impression that it was compiled from one, more detailed source, but not even "read" for the correct text.
    According to the comments.
    First, the preconditions for the conflict are not covered. The British began to prepare for war even before the active actions of the Argentines began. This means that either they themselves provoked, or there was intelligence information that was not advertised, although it was possible to start acting diplomatically. Consequently, Thatcher was not against the "victorious war."
    Secondly, the British, like the Argentines, were not well prepared. If all the bombs that hit the ships detonated in the Argentines, the fluoridation fleet would go to the bottom, but this is a topic for a separate article.
    The cruiser "Admiral Belgrano" is the only ship sunk by a nuclear submarine.
    Thirdly, the result of the war could have been different, if not for ... Not a word in the article about it.
    1. Sergey Sfiedu
      Sergey Sfiedu 24 December 2020 21: 48
      0
      "The British began to prepare for war even before the start of active actions by the Argentines" - in the long term - no, they did not prepare, although the diplomats warned. "or there was intelligence information that was not advertised" - there were. I don't remember the details, but the British knew in advance that the Argentines would perform. But they did not have time to do anything - after all, the other end of the earth. Agrentina had extensive trade ties with Britain, the armed forces had British weapons, the country had a large English colony, so the information went. "or they themselves provoked" - how to say - not to give what you consider yours by right - a provocation? Negotiations went on for many years, the Argentines were not satisfied with the condominium, they demanded an unconditional return of the islands, although they then agreed to lease the islands back to the UK for 99 years. But the British were not happy with this situation.
  • AX
    AX 24 December 2020 13: 51
    +3
    It will not be enough ...
  • Grossvater
    Grossvater 24 December 2020 14: 08
    +1
    Nuuu .... Nothing is impossible if you get down to business seriously! The Argentine leadership, organizing a war near its wattle fence, managed to put the Navy and the Air Force in the position of the Second Pacific Squadron, waging hostilities by and large outside the effective range of its own aviation.
    In general, clowns!
    1. Sergey Oreshin
      Sergey Oreshin 24 December 2020 14: 29
      +2
      Latinos, what to take from them.
      The Argentine army specialized in all kinds of coup d'état, but in protecting all kinds of organized crime groups, etc. Well, and on punitive actions against their own population and opposition.
      She was not ready for the war at all from the word.
      The British sent units to the Falklands, staffed by veterans of various local wars.
  • uav80
    uav80 24 December 2020 14: 39
    +7
    Hit Gibraltar: How the loudest sabotage in Argentina's history fell.

    What the Argentine government hoped for when it landed troops on the Malvinas (Falkland Islands) is unclear. But the fact remains: the expeditionary force of Great Britain was an unpleasant surprise for the South Americans.

    Nevertheless, all the Argentines participating in the operation were in action: the marines, supported by special forces from a group of tactical combat swimmers (Buzos Tacticos), captured the islands, the fleet met the enemy at sea, the aviation helped as much as possible. In a word - fun and earning future orders in full swing.

    Against the background of the not very successful "performance" of the Argentine fleet during the conflict, its commander - Admiral Jorge Anaya - came up with a daring thought: "Maybe FUCK ?!"

    What if a group of desperate guys flies to Europe and blows up a British ship there in the roadstead? Better just two! Or even three!

    Terrorists in the service of the new regime
    In general, the training of the Argentine combat swimmers was quite good. The unit itself was formed in 1952 with the participation of fighters who once served in the Italian 10th submarine commando flotilla.

    And so in the ranks of the Argentine group of tactical divers and around they began to look for suitable candidates for such an adventurous operation. And ... they found it.

    The command put a former member of the partisan (terrorist) city detachment Maximo Nicoletti as the main executor of the upcoming sabotage. On his account were the blowing up of the yacht of the chief of the federal police Alberto Villar and the then destroyer of the Argentine Navy "Santisima Trinidad".

    Having made a deal with the investigation, Nicoletti served several years in prison, after which he was released. He was enlisted in the military and was even going to take part in the conflict with Chile over the Beagle Channel in 1978. But then his services were not needed.

    Having studied the future assignment, Maximo took two more former partisans into his group - Antonio Nelson Latorre (another name is El Pelado Diego) and El Marciano, whose real name is still unknown.

    Captain Hector Rosales was supposed to control the group from the side of the Navy.

    Yes, it smelled like a desperate adventure! And in case of failure, Argentina would immediately deny any connection with the members of the group. Three were not officially in the service anyway, and Hector Rosales "took a vacation."

    You have a good plan, Mr. Admiral!
    The plan was simple and complex at the same time. The special forces were to fly to Europe in pairs with fake passports. In Spain, they will be awaited by two sea mines delivered through diplomatic channels. Then they will rent a car and come to the town of Algeciras - from there, the harbor of Gibraltar is a stone's throw. Several days for reconnaissance, searching for a target - and, in fact, undermining ships.

    Admiral Anaya approved the plan, and on April 24, 1982, the saboteurs flew out of Buenos Aires.

    When changing planes in Paris for a flight to Spanish Malaga, the first trouble occurred: customs officers suspected Latorre's passport of a fake. Despite the fact that the documents for the entire group were made by a verified counterfeiter, the speed of preparation of the operation affected: the manufacturer did not manage to find all the necessary materials. They were still able to withstand a quick passport check, but no more serious one.

    Nevertheless, the French did not find anything else to find fault with, and released the entire group to Spain. But just in case, they told the local security service about the strange guests (but in an amicable way, they shoved the probable problem onto the neighbors).

    The bosses give the go-ahead!
    The saboteurs rented three cars, took their deadly cargo from Madrid, and, avoiding meetings with the police, arrived in Algeciras.

    There they settled in different hotels, portrayed tourists. We bought an inflatable boat with a motor and fishing rods to pass for bored fishermen. At the same time, under the guise of fishing, it was convenient to inspect the harbor of Gibraltar.

    There was only one problem - there were no British warships.

    At some point, the swimmers even "asked the price" for the tug - but then, luckily for them, in early May Her Majesty's frigate "Ariadne" entered the harbor.

    It was luck! It was expected that at six in the evening the saboteurs on boats would leave Algeciras, cross the bay and set up charges around midnight. By five in the morning they will return to the Spanish harbor, go to Barcelona, ​​and from there - by plane home to Argentina.

    It only remained to get the admiral's approval. The same man, following the lead of politicians, waited for the possibility of a peaceful settlement of the conflict and did not give permission for the action.

    But then the British submarine "Conqueror" sank the Argentine cruiser "General Belgrano". It was impossible to forgive! And the saboteurs finally got the go-ahead from the command.

    Despite this, the swimmers lost another week: first they flew "for consultations" to Buenos Aires, then they waited for the return of "Ariadne". Finally, on May 10, the ship entered the harbor of Gibraltar. The attack was scheduled for the following night, unless the British frigate left anchor during that time.

    Having mentally prepared for the operation, the commandos went to bed. But soon they were awakened by ... the local police, with weapons in their hands, burst into their rooms.

    Are you gangsters? No, we are argentinos!
    There was no limit to the surprise of both sides. The servants of the law expected to see arms dealers, ETA terrorists, or at least gangsters, but not Argentina's swimmers. Which is now waging a war against the eternal enemy of Spain - the British crown!

    Moreover, the police officers who had arrested the saboteurs even confessed to them: if it had not been for the report that had already gone "upstairs" on the successful capture of suspicious persons, the Argentines would have already been released and would have tried not to interfere with them.

    Well, of course, to spoil the UK, and by someone else's hands - but it's just some kind of holiday!

    Who passed the group? This is still unknown. According to one version, the telephone conversation from the embassy in Madrid was intercepted by the MI6 service. British intelligence decided not to get involved in the game itself, but to eliminate the opponents by the local police, "leaking" information about suspicious persons to them.

    According to another version, the saboteurs were given a large amount of ... cash and very cautious behavior. A car rental employee suspected something was wrong when the same person began to visit him, who often changed cars and paid only in cash. There was a call to the police, who were already tense in connection with the upcoming World Cup ...

    When the superiors figured out what had happened, a piquant situation arose. It was impossible to hand over the MI6 saboteurs. But then what to do with them?

    To prevent a leak in the press, the Argentines had to be urgently taken out of the country. They were loaded onto the private plane of Spanish Prime Minister Leopoldo Calvo Sotelo, who happened to be in Malaga at that moment, and taken to the Canary Islands. A transport plane flew there and soon took the unlucky special forces home.

    Why was such urgency necessary? The fact is that in less than a month Spain was to become a NATO member. After that, it would be very difficult to transfer the saboteurs to Argentina.

    Naturally, even if the British ship was successfully blown up, the course of the war would not have changed in any way. But the audacity would be appreciated all over the world. So, due to a banal accident, theoretically the loudest operation of combat swimmers of the end of the twentieth century broke down.

    © warhead.su
    1. Fat
      Fat 24 December 2020 20: 02
      +1
      WOW! Zen and Warhedu in + ... And what do YOU ​​personally think about this super-duper conflict of the second half of the 20th century ...
      "It seems to me a very simple thing - they wanted to eat ... and ..." (c)
      The area of ​​the Malvinas (Falkland) Islands became a butt for states with a junta and age-old democracy at the time of the emergence of forecasts about "possible deposits" of oil in the region.
      And you dug out such a sensual "plug" ...
      Although interesting
      and search -
      don’t wear
      fellow
      1. uav80
        uav80 25 December 2020 09: 02
        0
        As for the Falklands, I'm more interested in the military component of this conflict, rather than geopolitics.
        For example, the use of civilian ships as combat units on both sides, the work of aviation, ground operations, various incidents and failures of both armies, well, etc.
  • Avior
    Avior 24 December 2020 15: 43
    0
    ... the British sank with impunity the outdated Argentine cruiser General Belgrano with 365 naval personnel on board outside the "exclusive zone" of conflict

    Sank at the moment when the Argentine fleet, including the General ..., went to sea and tried to drown the English fleet outside the same conflict zone :)))
    In fact, this interpretation of the zone is not entirely correct. The British warned that everyone would be drowned in the specified zone, but they were not limited to the zone itself
    Argentina could not afford to lose the fleet - with Brazil, the fleet might be needed.
  • vladcub
    vladcub 24 December 2020 15: 45
    +4
    Quote: Korsar4
    And there was no normal comparable aviation.
    How much closer to Argentina is the scene.

    And after all, there were good results: two British frigates were sunk, two destroyers.

    But Argentina's planes were lost faster. The landing of the landing was not really placed. Not all bombs exploded.

    Could life be complicated for the British? Can. Would that change the bottom line? No.

    "Would that change the bottom line"? the result is not a fig, but the end would be postponed.
  • Captain45
    Captain45 24 December 2020 16: 07
    +1
    An interesting article about the actions of the British special forces in the Falklands: http://www.belvpo.com/ru/38247.html
  • Fat
    Fat 24 December 2020 17: 01
    +2
    Cool article, Thank you. I started to "bite", but read it to the end and realized that the same thing is spinning, as if they had taken it off the tongue .... "small and victorious" ... The Britons, NATO members, had authority below the plinth when their corvettes and destroyers were burning like matches, not even from exosets, but from prehistoric bombing by devices from the time of the last world war ...
    1. Sergey Sfiedu
      Sergey Sfiedu 24 December 2020 22: 00
      +1
      Who's authority fell below the plinth? To be honest, I was 100% sure that the British adventure was doomed. With such forces it was impossible to perform such an operation! But they did the impossible. Due to the mistakes of the agrents as well. But not only. Mostly due to their professionalism. So someone m. and fell. And for specialists, I think - the opposite. The Argentines did not have any devices from the last war. There were Mirages and Skyhawks and Super-Enandaras - all much better than the Harriers. And the Britons were not afraid to expose their ships to bombs and missiles. And the Agrentines had an aircraft carrier, and exactly the same destroyers as the British, and West German-built submarines, but they were afraid. And they lost.
      1. Fat
        Fat 24 December 2020 22: 46
        0
        Sergey, I never doubt the heroism of the British, I am not interested in the technical capabilities of the parties, since I have been reading articles on this topic for several years. Serious conclusions: On the face - bullshit. Did the British get scared and cheated, to the point of complete impossibility from a handful of conscripts? and for a quarter of a year they were preparing a super-duper operation ... Lazier than this conflict is to look elsewhere.
        "small and successful" for the British and an "indelible shame" for the Argentine elite.
        The result - nothing has changed and everything is in the "shit" in full. But the Brits have lost their "authority" forever ... The "negotiated party" is closer to the truth. drag on the conflict for more and all the logistics of the UK are in the trash. The "high" sides parted almost amicably ....
        1. Avior
          Avior 25 December 2020 00: 07
          +4
          The problem was not the overland
          The British had to prepare an expeditionary force to the other end of the planet - this was the main difficulty
          And in general, the English fleet was not very suitable for an operation of such complexity, the economy mode made its contribution.
          They could not send ships instantly, they needed preparation. And they had to go across the planet to the other end
          And what quarter of the year are you talking about?
          Argentines captured the Falklands on April 2
          Already on April 7, England began the blockade of the islands
          On April 25, the British had already captured the island of South Georgia.
          On May 1, the main hostilities had already begun with the bombing of Argentine positions.
          That is, less than a month before the start of retaliatory hostilities. And now, rarely what fleet and army is capable of this - in less than a month to begin the assault on the islands on the other side of the globe
          Therefore, it is not clear why you think the British were scared
          1. Fat
            Fat 25 December 2020 00: 17
            0
            Duc .. And I'm talking about. About her darling - logistics, They (the British) were originally in the "Wed-ke". If not for the help of the allies, they would have fought forever. recourse
    2. Avior
      Avior 24 December 2020 22: 51
      +3
      Since when did supersonic Mirages and superettandars become the times of World War?
      1. Fat
        Fat 24 December 2020 23: 22
        0
        Yes, you are right, you are right. The country of silver ... had not only rifles, but also more abruptly ... this ..
        This did not add any honor to Great Britain ... rather, quite the opposite.
        I understand perfectly well - the basis of war is logistics
        The British specifically screwed up, but made conclusions
        and there were parts of the "quick response"
      2. Fat
        Fat 25 December 2020 00: 33
        0
        Since the appearance at the front
  • Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 24 December 2020 18: 27
    +3
    "A small but victorious war" is already familiar to me: Witte longed for a small but victorious war in order to distract the people from the revolution, but ended in defeat.
    Austria-Hungary longed for war with Serbia, they were confident of victory. As a result. : the collapse of the Iperia.
    In Greece, the "black colonels" embarked on an adventure with Cyprus. Lost Power
    1. Fat
      Fat 24 December 2020 20: 09
      0
      What can I say. You are right, and Witte - "....", it was he who was the chief in opposition to Stolypin. With Stolypin's "departure" the whole Empire ended. You can safely write the count as a socialist.
  • APASUS
    APASUS 24 December 2020 18: 27
    0
    It is very interesting to read, especially about the delivery of bombs to Argentina. There, the British would have had an order of magnitude more victims if it had not been for the defective fuses.
    1. Avior
      Avior 24 December 2020 22: 49
      +4
      Normal fuses were
      The use of bombs was abnormal
      The Argentines used them from an extremely low altitude and the fuses did not have time to dream from the fuse
      There should have been special devices to slow down the bomb, they cost a penny, but they were not purchased, they saved
  • bubalik
    bubalik 24 December 2020 18: 38
    +5
    ,,, during the military conflict in 1982, Argentine troops mined a significant part of the Falkland Islands. Despite active demining, more than 100 minefields remained, mainly in the vicinity of the administrative center of the Stanley Islands. Penguins settled in these mined areas - with their low weight (the largest, the emperor penguin weighs up to 46 kg), mines do not pose a danger. And thanks to mines, people are not dangerous either. So the consequences of the war guaranteed the birds a peaceful life. Now the Falkland Islands are home to about 3000 people and more than 1 million penguins. winked
    1. Astra wild2
      Astra wild2 24 December 2020 20: 38
      +2
      "there are more than 100 minefields left", and the British have no miners?
  • Graz
    Graz 24 December 2020 20: 23
    -2
    Argentines have to wait, in the end, the Malvinas islands will be theirs, the old lion will die and crumble completely into pieces
  • Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 24 December 2020 20: 32
    +2
    Colleagues, I heard that most of the Latin American officers were trained in the so-called "School of the Americas" funded by the United States. In this case, either the bad teachers at this school or Galtieri was a poor student
  • ruben morelli
    ruben morelli 24 December 2020 20: 57
    -2
    The crux of the matter is that Argentina blindly believed that the United States was abiding by the TIAR treaty, but shamefully betrayed that treaty, like all international treaties that violate the Yankee empire, so this could not be done without military assistance. adventure.! ... it should be noted that the peoples of South America such as Cuba and Peru provided their assistance, while Chile supported the British pirates by providing intelligence and logistics!
    1. Sergey Sfiedu
      Sergey Sfiedu 25 December 2020 18: 16
      +1
      "while Chile supported the British pirates" - nothing personal, Argentina and Chile at that time were almost at war, Pinochet was in advance. He is, of course, a cannibal and a fascist, but who in such a situation would have acted differently?
  • vladcub
    vladcub 24 December 2020 22: 04
    +2
    Quote: Korsar4
    Good morning Vladislav!
    This season of the year: tea and porridge are our everything.

    Cabbage soup and porridge our food (s)
  • Fat
    Fat 24 December 2020 23: 06
    +1
    Wouldn't I sing a love song
    And not to invent a new genre
    Pop pop motive and poetry
    And all my life to receive a fee.

    Thousands of eyes will hear my song
    My photo is sold out by thousands of hands
    My sun will tell me - it's about us
    The best friend will laugh at the text

    And I will become a supernova superstar
    Lots of money, car, everything
    Smiling, you say - I'm cool
    I'll hug you - you're right.

    Wouldn't I sing a love song
    Just something the string broke
    Yes, the pen broke - forgive me -
    Maybe next time,
    Now it's time to sleep.
    Chizh and Ko - About love
    1. Captain45
      Captain45 25 December 2020 10: 47
      0
      Quote: Thick

      Wouldn't I sing a love song
      Just something the string broke
      Yes, the pen broke - forgive me -
      Maybe next time,
      Now it's time to sleep.
      Chizh and Ko - About love

      It always seemed to me that it was V. Shakhrin and ChayF.
  • Virus-free crown
    Virus-free crown 24 December 2020 23: 59
    +3
    Ehhh ... I remembered ... when the gopniks got to me in the mid-80s ... I always asked them to hold my glasses while I would roll them into the "asphalt" laughing
  • Campanella
    Campanella 25 December 2020 00: 29
    0
    The aircraft carriers had to be sunk by any means before approaching the Falklands. The Argentines clearly did not prepare for such a war.
    Now there are a thousand and one ways to stop this development of events.
    Let's say to spray the "Novice" armada movement across the water area, to destroy Margaret Thatcher from a drone, or to do something like that. For example, accuse the same Thatcher of raping the head waiter! Blame the British for slavery, xenophobia and any other human sins.)))
  • faterdom
    faterdom 25 December 2020 01: 02
    +1
    It seems that the Argentine generals were not preparing to fight in earnest, the calculation was that "Britain will simply lose one more colony, how much else in recent decades - there, the whole Indian subcontinent - was enough for three large countries!"
    The Americans, again, clapped on the shoulder, smiled, promised a sky in diamonds. Now everyone knows how much a smile of American politicians costs ...
    Well, Margot, too, just needed a "little victorious". Vietnam and other Indochina should not be offered.
  • Basarev
    Basarev 25 December 2020 19: 03
    0
    Just like one big northern country. Bad economic policy, a small victorious war and a natural bummer. Straight one to one, no difference.
  • froger
    froger 28 December 2020 13: 16
    0
    A classic illustration of the famous thesis "Patriotism is the last refuge of villains." Galtieri tried his last chance to stay in power - to declare a small national war, but suffered a shameful defeat and was overthrown in disgrace and curses. Britain stripped Argentines of fishing privileges in the Falkland Islands, and relations between the two countries deteriorated sharply. As for the purchase of grain from Argentina by the Soviet Union, it is not the first time for us to buy grain overseas. Nowadays very few people know that in the 60s, when there was a crisis in Cuba, we helped Cuba with grain, bringing it from the USSR. Then it turned out that it was cheaper to buy bread in Argentina and bring it to Cuba - much closer. So we fulfilled our international duty - we bought grain in Argentina at our own expense and transported it to Cuba for free. Then Cuba cost us a million dollars a day.
  • Adam men
    Adam men 28 December 2020 22: 20
    0
    Malvins? Isn't it the Maldives?
    Again, the victim of the exam wrote an article? An editor too?
    1. Sergey Sfiedu
      Sergey Sfiedu 7 January 2021 16: 10
      0
      Malvins, Malvins (Falklands). The Maldives are completely different islands, it is warm there, coconuts grow, tourists sunbathe, the locals believe in Allah.
  • SASHA OLD
    SASHA OLD 29 December 2020 15: 31
    0
    I had already read the beginning of the article somewhere before, even while reading this one I looked once again at the date of writing - it seems fresh ..
    Deja Vu ...
    well, yes, the Argentine huntari are still "economists"
    about weapons and a bunch of unexploded anti-ship missiles, one could copy and paste without tearing out paragraphs from the article and making a stub out of it, but copy and add from oneself, change the words (I no longer doubt that this text is not given by the author, I have already read all this five times and came across for better reprints)
    there is such a site - Pikabu, there is such a program - "Bayanometer" is called, it checks the texts of the authors for matches in phrases, sentences, etc.
    otherwise this is not the first time I've seen something like this on VO
    this is unacceptable
    everyone with the Coming!
  • Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
    Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko 15 February 2021 09: 39
    +1
    The article is small, good, sensible, competent ... but how many times is it published? Or "VO" considers us to be schoolchildren for whom "repetition is the mother of learning!" ???
  • fif21
    fif21 22 February 2021 08: 25
    0
    Small-haired people collect fleet, send to Malvinas Islands, show with participation of Air Force. And what the Argentines are doing is waiting request So we waited! fool