Military Review

The language of heraldry

309

Carpet with knights and coats of arms from the Wienhausen Abbey monastery. Celle / Celle. Germany. 1330 BC


Each sought to be new
And go out into battle in the purest way.
The tower shines like gold on the shield,
There is a lion, there is a leopard and a fish in a battle emblem.
Peacock's tail serves as an ornament.
And someone decorated the helmet with a flower in consolation ...
There the rider's black mourning crowns the flag,
The other has a white, blue and green mark.
The third surco is crimson, glittering with lilies,
And someone, seeing this, trembles inwardly ...

(Poem of the XIII century "Galeran", translated by the author)

Coats of arms and heraldry. Like much of the knightly innovation, the basic rules of heraldry were developed in France. That is why all emblems, signs and symbols were named in Old French and Medieval Latin.

How, for example, were the sides of the shield designated? Dexter (from Latin dextra - "right") - the right side, which was facing the knight's right hand, and sinister (from Latin sinister - "left") - respectively to the left. The method of dividing the field of the shield into parts was called division, and the drawings on it were ordinaries.

And, since initially the coat of arms was on the knight's shield, then the coat of arms itself was determined by its shape: the Italian shield was oval, the Norman - in the form of an "iron", the French - had the form of a rectangle with a rounding or a sharp protrusion below, the Germanic - tarch (the shield is more later) had cutouts. Diamond-shaped shields were “women's shields” and were traditionally used for coats of arms for maidens and widows. Moreover, in the first case, the coat of arms of the father was transferred to this shield, and in the second - of the husband. Oval shields most often belonged to the Italian clergy.


Heraldic colors and their display in black and white.
Illustration from Stephen Slater's book “Heraldry. Illustrated Encyclopedia ", Eksmo, 2006 Pp. 70

The main provisions of heraldry about colors are as follows: yellow and white are used to designate "metals" - gold (op) and silver (argent). All other colors in heraldry are "enamels" or "enamels": scarlet (gulz or worm), black - black (mourning or saber), green (vert), blue (azure), purple (purple). Moreover, the latter on the coats of arms could well differ and very much, that is, it could be lilac, and dark blue, and purple.

Moreover, each color meant something. Scarlet - "the color of blood", of course, courage, willingness to shed it in battle for his feudal lord or "lady of the heart." Azure - served to demonstrate greatness and nobility (hence the "blue blood"). Green - symbolized hope and, of course, abundance so longed for in the Middle Ages. Purple - signified dignity. Well, the rabble is, of course, sadness, humility before fate and education, rare at that time. Pure silver has always been a symbol of spiritual purity and physical innocence. And gold is wealth, justice and generosity (and besides, also the Kingdom of Heaven and the hope to get there).

It is interesting that in addition to colors or enamels, there are also so-called "heraldic furs" in heraldry. True, there are only two of them: ermine fur and squirrel. But they could be portrayed in different ways.

So, ermine fur on the coat of arms could have the appearance of black tails (as on a royal mantle) on a silver field (three dots next to it depicted suture material with which the tails were sewn onto the robe).

And the squirrel - silver and azure tongues (which were also called "caps") or have an incomprehensible shape of the handle of a crutch or a spade. In this case, it was called crutch-like. Moreover, all the squirrel furs on the emblems could be positioned both upward and downward. Fur in this case was called "anti-squirrel".

It was forbidden to overturn ermine fur by the rules. But then its color could be changed: say, black to white. Such fur was called “anti-mountain”.


And here is how all these "tricks" with furs were displayed on the emblems.
Illustration from Stephen Slater's book “Heraldry. Illustrated Encyclopedia ", Eksmo, 2006 Pp. 71

One of the most important heraldic rules was this: when composing a coat of arms, it was impossible to put metal on metal and enamel on enamel. Fur could be applied not only to enamel, but also to metal. It was also allowed to apply enamel to the enamel, but only if it covered some details of the whole figure. For example, a golden lion located in an azure field could well have a scarlet tongue and claws, although in this case there will be an overlay of enamel on the enamel.

The language of heraldry
A 1470 manuscript depicting medieval coats of arms from the Houghton Library at Harvard University. USA


Well, the colors also had to be chosen wisely. A red lion on a white field looks good. But a blue lion on black would be almost invisible, as well as a black eagle on blue or dark purple.

However, in heraldry, as elsewhere, there were no rules without exceptions. Indeed, many coats of arms were not drawn up, but complained, and very often right on the battlefield or in such an environment when there was no time to consult with the herald. Also, changes in existing emblems could be quickly made. For example, the right edge of the coat of arms of a knight who showed cowardice or cowardice was broken off. Well, and a warrior who fell so low that he beat a prisoner could have shortened the shield from below.


Marriage and coat of arms.
Illustration from the book of V.O. Shpakovsky "Knights. Locks. Weapon". ROSME-PRESS, 2005. Page 81

Before marriage, the girl possessed the coat of arms of her father. A ribbon - "sweetheart's bow" was attached to her diamond-shaped shield. As soon as she got married, her diamond shield took on a "masculine" shape. The husband's coat of arms was on the dexter of her shield. The old, "girlish" heraldic elements were preserved on the head of her new coat of arms.

It was accepted that the coat of arms of the father was partially included in the coat of arms of the children. The coat of arms of the first son contained the image of a "bridge" or "aqueduct" (aka lambel - tournament collar), the second son - a crescent with horns up, the third - a five-pointed star, and so on: a dove, two circles, a lily, a marshmallow flower ...

There were cases when only a woman was the sole heir to the property, fortune and coat of arms of her father. In this case, the coats of arms of her children should be divided into four parts. In parts 1 and 4, the father's coat of arms was located, well, and the second and third were assigned to the mother's coat of arms. So it turned out that during a person's life, his coat of arms after some events in his family could well have changed.


And this is how the shield could be divided into parts ...
Illustration from Stephen Slater's book “Heraldry. Illustrated Encyclopedia ", Eksmo, 2006 Pp. 73

Well, what figures on the coat of arms could describe the high moral feelings of its owner: strength, wealth, loyalty to duty? It turns out to be the simplest. These are geometric patterns on the shield, which are commonly called "honorific". They are considered as such, since they occupy a special place in heraldry, and in blazoning (as the description of the coat of arms is called) they are always called immediately after the shield itself.


"Figures of Honor".
Illustration from Stephen Slater's book “Heraldry. Illustrated Encyclopedia ", Eksmo, 2006 Pp. 74


English knights of the era of the Hundred Years War and the Battle of Agincourt. At the central one, on the golden shield, there is just an image of the "overturned edge" and, as you can see, this is quite enough for him.
Figure: T.V. Kanivets

It is interesting that many honorary heraldic figures can, so to speak, "shrink" and appear on the shield in two or three. The same straight cross can be a "narrow straight cross", and instead of one rafter or pillar, the emblem can have three narrow rafters or three narrow pillars.


"Simple Shapes".
Illustration from Stephen Slater's book “Heraldry. Illustrated Encyclopedia ", Eksmo, 2006 Pp. 76

In addition to "honorable" ones, "simple heraldic figures" are also known. Moreover, all of them are also related to the shape and design of the shield. For example, "border". Well, it is clear how this figure appeared: a kind of reinforcement was stuffed on the shield along the edge, most likely made of metal - hence the border. The inner border is between the edge of the shield and its middle. The French heralds gave it the name "fake shield" ("through shield"). And there is just an inner border, but there is a narrow one. The lattice-weave shield was called "lattice-covered".

An interesting "free part" - a square in the upper right corner. Usually some kind of image was placed in it, but at the same time it served to indicate family ties. Shingle is a vertically oriented bar. Usually one shingle is never depicted. They are scattered over the field of the shield, and then the shield is described as "strewn with shingles." There is also such a simple figure as the "circle". Mugs, like shingles, for example, come in both colors and metals. There are circles - "coins" or "bisantes" (in honor of the Byzantine gold coin). But if the circle is red, then it is "guz" ("tartlet"), blue - "edge". If the circle is blue, and wavy lines are drawn in it, then this is a "fountain".


The coat of arms of the Stourton family: "Shield of sabers, golden sling on the right between six fountains, arranged in three."
Colorized illustration from Stephen Slater's book Heraldry. Illustrated Encyclopedia ", Eksmo, 2006 Pp. 77

The coat of arms of the English Stourton family is interesting, or rather, his история... In the distant past, their family owned a land on which there were three springs that formed the source of the Stourt River, and three springs were nearby, but beyond its border. So the family coat of arms began to describe its land ownership very well.


Very simple coat of arms of the de Vergy family with the image of three five-leafed leaves.
Figure: T.V. Kanivets


To be continued ...
Author:
Articles from this series:
Coats of arms: form and content
Where did the coats of arms and the science about them come from?
309 comments
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  1. Hunter 2
    Hunter 2 29 December 2020 05: 42
    +7
    Thank you Vyacheslav Olegovich hi Pleased with morning coffee. Excellent continuation of the cycle! good
    We are waiting for the next Article ...
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. Hunter 2
        Hunter 2 29 December 2020 05: 59
        0
        Airfield ... in the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation there is article 329 "Desecration of the State Emblem of the Russian Federation and the State Flag of the Russian Federation"
        Criminal Code of the Russian Federation Article 329. Abuse of the State Emblem of the Russian Federation or the State Flag of the Russian Federation
        Violation of the State Emblem of the Russian Federation or the State Flag of the Russian Federation -
        the applicable sentence is restraint of liberty for a term of up to one year, or forced labor for the same term, or arrest for a term of three to six months, or imprisonment for a term of up to one year.
        (as amended by Federal Laws of 27.12.2009 N 377-FZ, of 07.12.2011 N 420-FZ
        Think when you write comments. Your subjective opinion - sometimes it's better to keep it to yourself!
        1. The comment was deleted.
          1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
            Kote Pan Kokhanka 29 December 2020 06: 34
            +1
            Quote: Aerodrome
            Quote: Hunter 2
            Think when you write comments.

            yes I know ... I'm not afraid anymore. I lived.

            Alexey is right and don't write nonsense. I am not a seer or a mystic, but this (about myself) should not be said.
            Regards, Vlad!
            1. Sling cutter
              Sling cutter 29 December 2020 22: 39
              +1
              and I got the "Spanish cap" from my grandfather
      2. Krasnodar
        Krasnodar 29 December 2020 06: 11
        +9
        Quote: Aerodrome
        how beautiful was the coat of arms of the USSR,

        A lovely sight. Cereals, a slogan in 15 languages, two heavenly bodies and a sickle and a hammer, and a red star. Just a sickle and a hammer and a red star would be in the subject. Together with the slogan in one language.
        just as disgusting is the current one ... nothing behind it ... empty ... alas.

        It is historical.
        1. Vladimir_2U
          Vladimir_2U 29 December 2020 06: 27
          +4
          He was just a worker and peasant and the intelligentsia who joined them (in a good way))). And so and so definitely did not care about the mossy, albeit beautiful, traditions.
          1. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 29 December 2020 06: 30
            0
            I'm not talking about tradition, I'm about meaning and aesthetics
            A pile up on the principle of shoving unsuccessful with the Hammer and Sickle against the background of some reason Africa, which contradicts Marxism, by the way lol is simply a banal lack of Taste. ))
            1. Hunter 2
              Hunter 2 29 December 2020 06: 34
              0
              Albert ... good really why against the backdrop of Africa ??? belay Didn't notice somehow before. laughing
              1. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar 29 December 2020 06: 42
                +2
                Probably in this way a challenge to European colonialism was thrown. laughing
                1. depressant
                  depressant 29 December 2020 12: 32
                  +2
                  Colleagues, this is not Africa in front, this is America in the back wassat
              2. Vladimir_2U
                Vladimir_2U 29 December 2020 08: 23
                +1
                Quote: Hunter 2
                Albert ... good really why against the backdrop of Africa

                Not Albert, but I will hint why:
                Quote: Vladimir_2U
                against the background of some reason Africa
                Well, yes, lonely Russia on the globe would look logical, what can I say here
                1. Krasnodar
                  Krasnodar 29 December 2020 08: 52
                  +1
                  Eurasia - why is it bad? ))
                  1. Vladimir_2U
                    Vladimir_2U 29 December 2020 08: 56
                    0
                    Quote: Krasnodar
                    Eurasia - why is it bad? ))

                    With an empty globe? Or do you have a Eurasian globe? Provide, pliz.
                    1. Krasnodar
                      Krasnodar 29 December 2020 13: 39
                      +1
                      The question is what is in the foreground)) For some reason, Africa is on the coat of arms of the USSR
                      1. Vladimir_2U
                        Vladimir_2U 29 December 2020 13: 45
                        0
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        The question is what is in the foreground)) For some reason, Africa is on the coat of arms of the USSR
                        This Africa was given to you, take a closer look at the coat of arms, in the center of the image of the Earth on the coat of arms of Russia in general. As the saying goes: open your eyes.
                      2. svp67
                        svp67 29 December 2020 15: 18
                        +2
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        As they say:

                        Both Greenland and America are there ... I don’t understand what people don’t like. It is said in the motto: "Workers of all countries unite."
                      3. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 29 December 2020 20: 00
                        0
                        Duc Russia is understandable, but the hammer and sickle in Africa))))
          2. Vladimir_2U
            Vladimir_2U 29 December 2020 06: 43
            -2
            Well, yes, a two-headed (not mutant) bird with three crowns, a bunch of ribbons, something unintelligible club-like in clawed paws, covered with a shield with a spearman sausage of a rather small crocodile is a masterpiece of load and aesthetics. Against the Sun, the Earth (on which, in general, almost the entire northern hemisphere and not Africa alone), Mars (yes, yes, a straight five-pointed star - Mars) of bread entwined with ribbons and tools. Originally the coat of arms of a medieval country, against the coat of arms of a cosmic civilization.
            1. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar 29 December 2020 06: 54
              +3
              1) These are historical symbols of Russia and Orthodoxy (I myself am a Jew, but I live in an Orthodox country, so I pay tribute to the symbolism and past of the state)
              2) Space civilization is good. But why was it necessary to churn out 100 thousand tanks in space instead of investing in agriculture, for example? Otherwise, the capitalists on the other side of the Northern Hemisphere had to buy ears of corn, which were later used with the slogans "Butun dunyo proletarlari, birnashingiz!" wrapped)).
              1. kalibr
                29 December 2020 08: 01
                +3
                Quote: Krasnodar
                1) These are historical symbols of Russia and Orthodoxy (I myself am a Jew, but I live in an Orthodox country, so I pay tribute to the symbolism and past of the state)

                In this regard, I really like the French film "Mad Wedding" ...
                1. Krasnodar
                  Krasnodar 29 December 2020 08: 55
                  +6
                  Good morning! hi Where did the two fathers (from the side of the bride and groom) meet? laughing
                  1. kalibr
                    29 December 2020 09: 03
                    +5
                    And good morning to you! Well yes! And where the French had four sons-in-law: a Negro, a Jew, an Arab and a Chinese
                    1. Krasnodar
                      Krasnodar 29 December 2020 09: 05
                      +6
                      But only a Franco-African was a correct Catholic))
              2. Vladimir_2U
                Vladimir_2U 29 December 2020 08: 18
                -7
                Quote: Krasnodar
                But why was it necessary at the same time to churn out 100 thousand tanks in space instead of investing in agriculture, for example
                And, you are one of these: "it would be better if the pensioners were fed .."
                1. Krasnodar
                  Krasnodar 29 December 2020 09: 02
                  +3
                  No, what are you! I also hoped that after a throw on the English Channel during the Third World War, out of 100 tanks, two thousand would still reach the Atlantic coast, which would formidably stand at the strait and direct their guns at radioactive Britain. fellow
                  1. Vladimir_2U
                    Vladimir_2U 29 December 2020 09: 47
                    -2
                    Quote: Krasnodar
                    I also hoped that after the throw on the English Channel during the Third World War, out of 100 tanks
                    Show where the numbers come from, justify! And even if it is 120, then what proportion was exported, what proportion to the allies do you know? Zero, third, half, how much? What proportion of these mythical statistic of ACS, TZM, chassis for special vehicles? You are using some kind of bastard cliches without hesitation. By the way, how many of the stats (meme campaign) were the cars left after the War?
                    1. Krasnodar
                      Krasnodar 29 December 2020 09: 55
                      +4
                      According to the information of the Ministry of Defense of the USSR, as of January 1, 1990, there were a total of 63 tanks (including 900 in the zone of the CFE Treaty that was being prepared for conclusion), 41 infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers.
                      That's better? laughing
                    2. Vladimir_2U
                      Vladimir_2U 29 December 2020 10: 01
                      -4
                      Quote: Krasnodar
                      According to the information of the Ministry of Defense of the USSR, as of January 1, 1990, there were a total of 63 tanks (including 900 in the zone of the CFE Treaty that was being prepared for conclusion), 41 infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers.
                      So you are one of those that armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles are recorded in tanks, however. although what I mean if 64 and 100 are the same numbers for you.
                    3. kalibr
                      29 December 2020 12: 12
                      +5
                      You, Vladimir, yourself can go to the website of the Ministry of Education and see everything, what, when, how many, how many infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers and tanks - everything is there. Why waste words and time here?
                    4. Vladimir_2U
                      Vladimir_2U 29 December 2020 12: 30
                      -3
                      Quote: kalibr
                      Why waste words and time here?

                      Teach your wife, Vyacheslav. Or for you, too, that 64, that 000 are all one?
                  2. Krasnodar
                    Krasnodar 29 December 2020 13: 21
                    +3
                    OK. Was there 1990 thousand tanks for the USSR in 64? )) For one thousand to reach the English Channel and threaten to drive their guns towards radioactive Britain? laughing
                  3. Vladimir_2U
                    Vladimir_2U 29 December 2020 13: 33
                    -3
                    Quote: Krasnodar
                    OK. Was there 1990 thousand tanks for the USSR in 64?
                    They all had to be put on metal, like you for joy? Well, the word "conservation" is familiar to you? So, for nothing, a batch of T-15s was delivered to Syria in 16-62, you know what I mean?
                    Quote: Krasnodar
                    For one thousand to reach the English Channel and drive their cannons menacingly towards radioactive Britain?
                    Wow, you are a strategist. Heraldry master, field grower, also strategist. And a Jew, but that's for rhyme.
                  4. Krasnodar
                    Krasnodar 29 December 2020 17: 21
                    +3
                    1) They had to build 24 thousand, the rest for the welfare of the people and the development of computers, for example fellow
                    2) The word conservation is familiar to me. It was planned to put a bunch of reservists on the mothballed tanks, incl. graduates of military departments. The question is why? Reach the English Channel, etc.?
                    3) How many were they delivered to Syria? 5-6 thousand? laughing
                    4) I can also embroider. Cross. Free that a Jew lol
                  5. Vladimir_2U
                    Vladimir_2U 30 December 2020 03: 52
                    +1
                    Quote: Krasnodar
                    I can also embroider. Cross. Free that a Jew

                    Well, yes, Mogendavid would be more logical. hi Happy New Year!
                  6. Krasnodar
                    Krasnodar 30 December 2020 09: 23
                    +1
                    Holiday greetings hi
            2. bk0010
              bk0010 1 January 2021 22: 01
              +1
              Quote: Krasnodar
              For one thousand to reach the English Channel and drive their cannons menacingly towards radioactive Britain?
              Exactly. This would prevent the landing of the American Expeditionary Force (without ports, heavy equipment cannot be landed and large forces cannot be supplied), would allow us to expand the radius of our aviation's influence on the US Navy and convoys going to Europe, as well as exclude the possibility of basing the US Air Force on airfields Europe.
            3. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar 1 January 2021 23: 07
              0
              My personal opinion is that after the exchange of nuclear strikes on the territory of Europe, the United States and the Union would come to a peace agreement, and very quickly. Because it would have been about the total destruction of Soviet and American cities, which not a single country fell on the fig hi
  • kalibr
    29 December 2020 09: 05
    +4
    Quote: Vladimir_2U
    100 thousand tanks

    Still, this is clearly too much ...
  • Vladimir_2U
    Vladimir_2U 29 December 2020 08: 28
    -1
    Quote: Krasnodar
    Otherwise, the capitalists on the other side of the Northern Hemisphere had to buy ears of corn
    This is bad? Including your logic: when the Russian authorities were selling grain abroad, was Russia at the peak of its power?
    1. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 29 December 2020 09: 04
      +5
      If they are selling it now, then the Soviet agricultural farm was built incorrectly and was managed very badly. And not only him.
      1. Vladimir_2U
        Vladimir_2U 29 December 2020 09: 06
        -1
        Quote: Krasnodar
        If they are selling now
        Now they sell high-quality ones, and profits are in their pockets, but they import whatever is horrible, and again ... Well, do you know about feeding cattle?
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 29 December 2020 09: 07
          +3
          laughing ... now they are selling what is ugly. There is a demand for everything. And what about cattle feeding?
        2. Vladimir_2U
          Vladimir_2U 29 December 2020 09: 12
          +1
          Quote: Krasnodar
          now they are selling what is ugly. There is a demand for everything
          PC, argument.
          Quote: Krasnodar
          And what about cattle feeding?
          In the USSR, a lot of grain was spent on fattening beef cattle and feeding dairy cattle, and from private traders and just ready-made bread. How is it now with your cattle meat and milk in Russia? I myself will answer, it doesn't matter.
        3. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 29 December 2020 09: 25
          +5
          laughing the highest classes of wheat, used for various flour products, such as durum pasta, always yield very little. Basically, there are three or four. As for fodder, they are fed including corn, all kinds of tops, etc. mixed feed. As for wheat - the fifth grade is fed, the lowest. hi
        4. Vladimir_2U
          Vladimir_2U 29 December 2020 09: 33
          -1
          Quote: Krasnodar
          the highest classes of wheat used for various flour products, such as durum pasta, always yield very little
          And did they export the grain of the upper classes? It was just for feed that they exported, and sorry, I found out that the grain of cattle just does not go very well, but the pigs have a bang.
        5. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 29 December 2020 09: 46
          +3
          Pigs are doing well, not necessarily wheat grain)))
          The USSR imported wheat of the 3rd grade, mainly. For people hi
        6. Vladimir_2U
          Vladimir_2U 29 December 2020 09: 50
          -1
          Quote: Krasnodar
          The USSR imported wheat of the 3rd grade, mainly. For people
          However, it's a lie.
        7. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 29 December 2020 10: 00
          +3
          Judging by the episodic data of the statistical reporting of the Ministry of Procurement of the RSFSR, massive grain imports into the cities and rural areas of the industrial regions of the Urals began as early as the 1960s. However, if during this period the imports were episodic, and in the 70s biennium was subject to sharp fluctuations (sometimes several times: in 1973, the import of UER amounted to 1402 thousand tons, in 1974 - 266 thousand tons17), then in the 80s. (especially from the second half of the decade), he began to keep constantly at a high level, as evidenced by the data in the table on the next page.

          Everything is very detailed here
          Reference:
          https://elar.urfu.ru/bitstream/10995/4992/2/dais-14-10-2009.pdf
          Read about 23 million tons of grain from the United States in the 70s, read, etc. In year
        8. Vladimir_2U
          Vladimir_2U 29 December 2020 10: 06
          -1
          Quote: Krasnodar
          Everything is very detailed here
          Reference:
          Thank you! Here's a quote from there:
          But the managerial elite got the opportunity, without changing anything in the existing economic mechanism for managing the agrarian sector, to increase the production of livestock products through imports of feed grains.

          Quote: Krasnodar
          The USSR imported wheat of the 3rd grade, mainly. For people
          So I repeat once again, you are writing nonsense, or you are mistaken.
        9. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 29 December 2020 10: 24
          +3
          laughing
          Read on:
          In order to somehow "put together" the grain balance and not leave flour mills and compound feed factories without raw materials, central governing bodies made up for the grain deficit with imports. Such oncoming traffic led to grain losses: hundreds of thousands of tons of grain were transported to the other end of the country, and imports came from ports.
          Let us now look at the commodity structure of the Ural regional imports of grain and bakery products in the 70s and 80s. XX century. According to reports on the movement of grain-fodder products in the regions and republics of the Ural economic region for this period, the bulk of it fell on soft wheat. The share of this crop in grain imports was 43-79%. The second largest position is corn (16-45% in different years). It is clear that corn, which in some years occupied up to half of the Urals imports of grain products, was used for the production of compound feed; thus, the production of Ural milk and meat was subsidized through imports.

          Now an explanation - flour mills are equal to wheat for people, bread, rolls, etc. Compound feed - wheat of the 5th class, its absence shows a shortage of harvest, because there is usually a lot of it. Corn is the main feed for cattle. Lack of feed maize is a complete inefficiency of agriculture. soldier
        10. Vladimir_2U
          Vladimir_2U 29 December 2020 10: 37
          -2
          Quote: Krasnodar
          Now a clarification - flour mills are equal to wheat for people, bread, rolls, etc.
          And where is that low-grade wheat went to HBI for people? Is there that 100% of imports were this wheat and corn? Here you are clearly leaning towards the fact that the Soviet people were fed all sorts of rubbish, but this is a lie! Here is from the link:
          In addition, strong and durum wheat was imported, even to the Orenburg region, which itself was a large producer of such crops.


          Quote: Krasnodar
          Lack of feed maize is a complete inefficiency of agriculture.
          This is complete nonsense. Data on UER, and even now corn in the Russian Federation is grown without much enthusiasm. Or are there especially favorable conditions for succulent corn in the Urals?
          The Union of Artists in the USSR was not the strongest industry, but the country, and not only, was fed normally.
        11. kalibr
          29 December 2020 12: 06
          +4
          Quote: Vladimir_2U
          The Union of Artists in the USSR was not the strongest industry, but the country, and not only, was fed normally.

          It's not about the helm ... "Normal" is not a criterion. In prison, food is also "normal". In order for the country to have an abundance of food, you only need to have 2 tons of grain per person per year. There is bread, meat, and vodka - there is enough for everything and even sell in exchange for chocolate. But we have never been able to achieve this. Hence all the problems!
        12. Vladimir_2U
          Vladimir_2U 29 December 2020 12: 36
          -2
          Quote: kalibr
          There is bread, meat, and vodka - there is enough for everything and even sell in exchange for chocolate
          In Soviet times, I’m talking about the period from 1976 to 85, about which I personally can testify, all this happened.
          Quote: kalibr
          just have 2 tons of grain per person per year
          Where does this information come from? From which Penza archives?
      2. Krasnodar
        Krasnodar 29 December 2020 13: 16
        +3
        1) request where does low-grade wheat have to do with it? The West bought a normal third grade for KhBI, because have been unable to provide their own citizens with wheat for decades
        It was not 100%, but purchases of wheat since 1974 ranged from 23-24 million tons annually.
        They did not feed the Soviet people rubbish - they bought in the West what they were not able to grow in sufficient quantities themselves due to poor farming.
        2) If it was okay, then why was it corn from 16 to 45% of grain exports from the West? ))
      3. Vladimir_2U
        Vladimir_2U 29 December 2020 13: 28
        0
        Quote: Krasnodar
        2) If it was okay, then why was it corn from 16 to 45% of grain exports from the West? ))
        You will also start to weave about corn, what was fed to people?
        Quote: Krasnodar
        1) request what does low-grade wheat have to do with it? The West bought a normal third grade for KhBI, because were unable to provide their own citizens with wheat for decades
        Well, you're lying, and taking into account your own link, it's also stupid.
      4. Krasnodar
        Krasnodar 29 December 2020 17: 13
        +2
        laughing lol wassat - a standard set of emoticons for a forum member named Kolya the Greek.
        1) What does it have to do with feeding people ?? We themselves were not able to grow. Neither people nor livestock in sufficient quantities.
        2) How am I lying? request Are you having trouble reading comprehension? Did the USSR not buy wheat for HBI? Then what was imported wheat doing in flour mills? Was flour for buns sculpted for cattle there? ))))
      5. Vladimir_2U
        Vladimir_2U 30 December 2020 03: 46
        0
        Okay, I immediately admit that I was not grounded in the variety of wheat, almost completely.
        Grade 3 is quite suitable for HBI, here you are right.
        But I can show you this!
        Quote: Krasnodar
        You have a problem reading comprehension

        because:
        Quote: Krasnodar
        Such oncoming traffic led to grain losses: hundreds of thousands of tons of grain were transported to the other end of the country, and imports came from ports.
        Grain grown in the country was rolled around the country, and with imports they only finished off what was missing to the plan.

        Quote: Krasnodar
        What does it have to do with feeding people ?? We ourselves were not able to grow. Neither people nor livestock in sufficient quantities.
        The fact that the country needs to grow the sea of ​​everything except wheat and corn, I hope you understand? You seem to have misunderstood what I just understood in a dispute with you: the Urals as a whole are not favorable for growing wheat, but it was grown, for what? What would have happened, the country and the Urals in particular, did not put their teeth on the shelf, did not stretch their legs, but at the very least, poorly fed and worked. So your opinion about the incompetence of CX based on grain imports, I still consider stupid, a little less, however, than if you deduced the same thing based on the import of bananas, for example. But thanks for the lesson.
      6. Krasnodar
        Krasnodar 30 December 2020 09: 28
        +1
        1) It is written differently - lost during transportation, both domestic and imported
        2) Fill in Yandex, please, oil for the food of the USSR and you will understand the global nature of the problem
  • Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku 29 December 2020 10: 57
    +1
    Corn is the main feed for cattle. Lack of feed maize is a complete inefficiency of agriculture.

    - Guys, who will be given the first prize?
    - The queen of the fields - corn! laughing drinks
  • Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Kote Pan Kokhanka 29 December 2020 11: 08
    +5
    In the Urals, corn is grown only as a fodder bait for silage. She does not even have time to turn yellow.
    Another thing is in Krasnodar. Near Kuchegur I saw her being harvested by a combine. There she really is the queen of the fields.
  • Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku 29 December 2020 11: 16
    +5
    Another thing is in Krasnodar. Near Kuchegur I saw her being harvested by a combine. There she really is the queen of the fields.

    This is yes. And in our country, it seems, and wheat does not grow much in the Northwest.
  • Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Kote Pan Kokhanka 29 December 2020 11: 37
    +7
    Nikolay, there are similar parallels. View the potato yield in the Temryuk district of the Krasnodar Territory. I was surprised by the low impact.
    In the household, the summer resident takes from two crops a year as much as we take from one. Climate.
  • Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku 29 December 2020 11: 56
    0
    In the household, the summer resident takes from two crops a year as much as we take from one. Climate.

    And at Shpakovsky's dacha, you can collect radishes twice a summer. wink Climate + soil + dark nights. This is our very first vegetable, then the white nights begin.
  • Mihaylov
    Mihaylov 29 December 2020 12: 24
    +6
    Quote: Pane Kohanku
    And at Shpakovsky's dacha, you can collect radishes twice a summer. wink Climate + soil + dark nights. This is our very first vegetable, then the white nights begin.

    At my dacha, the remontant raspberries only began to ripen by October, so beautifully the berries hung under the snow laughing ,
    I tell my wife that if December is warm, we will eat raspberries.
    It is probably necessary to change it to the usual one, it somehow manages to ripen, and this summer was warm, and if it is cold as usual, it will not have time to ripen at all.
  • Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku 29 December 2020 12: 37
    +6
    At my dacha

    Sergei, and the dacha in which area of ​​the Leningrad region? drinks Without a greenhouse, we have what you can grow. This is with V.O. Shpakovsky in Penza is practically the Dominican Republic, stick a stick - it will bear fruit, but bananas do not grow. laughing
  • Mihaylov
    Mihaylov 29 December 2020 12: 44
    +7
    Quote: Pane Kohanku
    Sergei, and the dacha in which area of ​​the Leningrad region?

    In my Gatchina.
    This is with V.O. Shpakovsky in Penza is practically the Dominican Republic, stick a stick - it will bear fruit, but bananas do not grow.

    But in our swamp, orchids bloomed and we could admire the beauty of the swamps wassat

    In reality, of course, this is not an orchid, but a so-called orchid, but from the class of orchids, it grows in the swamps of the Leningrad region, he himself grew up on our site, a swamp is a swamp. drinks
  • Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku 29 December 2020 12: 51
    +6
    But in our swamp, orchids bloomed and we could admire the beauty of the swamps

    Beautiful! good And about orchids, I think everyone has this favorite moment in the film! laughing
    By the way, the landscape for "The Dog of the Baskervilles", it seems, was filmed somewhere near the Slates.
  • Mihaylov
    Mihaylov 29 December 2020 14: 14
    +5
    Quote: Pane Kohanku
    the landscape for "The Dog of the Baskervilles", it seems, was filmed somewhere near the Slates.

    Interestingly, I didn’t know, but it is very possible that we have similar landscapes in the swamps, and Slantsy is in our direction.
    And about orchids, I think everyone has this favorite moment in the film!

    Without options drinks
  • Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku 29 December 2020 16: 48
    +3
    Without options

    Pay attention to how many minuses they gave me for mentioning Shpakovsky's dacha. laughing Envy, envious! loldrinks
  • Mihaylov
    Mihaylov 29 December 2020 16: 52
    +3
    Quote: Pane Kohanku
    Pay attention to how many minuses they gave me for mentioning Shpakovsky's dacha. laughing Envy, envious!

    I really didn't understand this, why didn't Shpakovsky's dacha please them? drinks
  • Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku 29 December 2020 16: 56
    +5
    I really didn't understand this, why didn't Shpakovsky's dacha please them?

    Nuuuuu, here, Sergey, you need to think hard with your brains ... Under a glass and tangerines, as the wise Master of Trilobite bequeathed .. drinks Having wrinkled my mind, I can think of these options:
    1. They themselves do not have a summer residence,
    2. There is a dacha, but beyond the Arctic Circle, and there are only lichen and cranberries.
    3. Hands are crooked, nothing grows, they envy the shpakov harvest. laughing
  • Mihaylov
    Mihaylov 29 December 2020 17: 00
    +4
    Quote: Pane Kohanku

    Nuuuuu, here, Sergei, you need to think hard with your brains ...

    I think Nikolai, that if you think about it, then this is all - the parasites-huts act:

    AND! The public is outraged! angry
  • Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku 29 December 2020 17: 16
    +5
    AND! The public is outraged!

    Ahaha, Sergey, they slapped me one more minus for the shpakov dacha! wassat Taking into account the fact that I am bearded (Anton is a witness!), For sure - there is a secret society of balalaika huts! fellow drinks
    There is a fourth option: These are those who are forced by their wives to dig a garden! lol
  • Mihaylov
    Mihaylov 29 December 2020 17: 23
    +3
    Quote: Pane Kohanku
    for sure - there is a secret society of balalaika huts!

    So we will define them, otherwise all Masons are Masons! wassat
    These are the ones who are forced by their wives to dig a garden!

    Here I am, unlike them, I dig exclusively voluntarily! drinks
  • Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku 29 December 2020 17: 34
    +3
    So we will define them, otherwise all Masons are Masons!

    And also the huts-tricks! wink Shpakovskaya-dacha-foba! wassat
    Here I am, unlike them, I dig exclusively voluntarily!

    When I had such an opportunity, I also willingly put my hands on. Now there is no cottage. Incidentally, I am also extremely impressed by the Gatchina region. drinks
  • Mihaylov
    Mihaylov 29 December 2020 18: 09
    +3
    Quote: Pane Kohanku
    I got one more minus for shpakov's dacha

    And they gave me a minus for Shpakovsky's dacha. drinks
    I feel: there is some kind of secret here!
    Maybe he has a treasure buried there? good
  • Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku 29 December 2020 18: 15
    +3
    And they gave me a minus for Shpakovsky's dacha.

    This is such a special ceremony! wink Two in one - the demons were expelled, they were ordained knights-bachelors. drinks Now you will have to hang out in our company ... request
    Maybe he has a treasure buried there?

    The filing of Niva magazines for 1901? belay Or is his earth so black earth that it has already poured out diamonds? laughing
  • Mihaylov
    Mihaylov 29 December 2020 21: 42
    +3
    Quote: Pane Kohanku
    The filing of Niva magazines for 1901?

    Maybe a party card? good
  • Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Kote Pan Kokhanka 29 December 2020 23: 30
    +1
    Quote: Pane Kohanku
    There is a fourth option: These are those who are forced by their wives to dig a garden!

    If you want to live richly, you will dig, plant, weed and huddle. Only then will there be something to dig and burst in winter.
    It's stupid to envy your neighbor, especially Shpakovsky's dacha in Penza! What if the sea splashed at his doorstep? So in Penza there is no sea to envy.
    It is stupid for the earth to proceed with envy, as well as the climate. I still digest the impact of the white nights on the harvest.
    To envy the walls? Duc, there is no money to buy, hands to feet and system. Today no one owes and is not obliged to anyone, but they will not interfere.
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 29 December 2020 17: 22
    +4
    A lot of things are growing in summer cottages beyond the Arctic Circle.
  • Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku 29 December 2020 17: 25
    +3
    A lot of things are growing in summer cottages beyond the Arctic Circle.

    On Dikson, I think, is unlikely. But my friend Katya, who is a countrywoman with you, told how in 2018 she and her daddy went to the forest near the Polar Zorey, and, according to her, "cut red hair for three hours". fellow I respect drinks By the way, you have burbot there. I have never caught it myself, and have not even seen it, but you do catch. good
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 29 December 2020 17: 35
    +4
    In my childhood, burbot was considered a trash fish, they caught only because of the liver, they made pate. A kind of Murmansk "foie gras".
  • Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku 29 December 2020 17: 37
    +5
    In my childhood, burbot was considered a trash fish

    Wow! belay Yes, you there in the North were completely obese! laughing By the way, the Norwegians muttered something this year against pink salmon - they say, a weedy species of salmon ... request
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 29 December 2020 17: 50
    +4
    In my small homeland, pink salmon is considered exclusively a producer of red caviar.
  • Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku 29 December 2020 17: 53
    +4
    In my small homeland, pink salmon is considered exclusively a producer of red caviar.

    Her meat is drier than salmon?
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 29 December 2020 17: 58
    +3
    Kolya, pink salmon is a member of the salmon family.
  • Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku 29 December 2020 18: 02
    +3
    Kolya, pink salmon is a member of the salmon family.

    Ah you, smart guy, discovered Australia! wink Anton, damn it, I'm sorry, I didn't put it that way - her meat is less fatty than in Atlantic salmon, that is, in salmon? tongue drinks
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 29 December 2020 18: 09
    +3
    Ah you, smart guy, discovered Australia!
    Educate yourself, Mr. Captain! My knowledge box is open for you! Moreover, mind you completely free of charge ... laughing
  • Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku 29 December 2020 18: 13
    +2
    Moreover, mind you completely free of charge ...

    Pay attention, you never answered me for free for the difference between pink salmon meat and salmon meat! stop
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 29 December 2020 18: 23
    +3
    Yes, normal meat. Like an iguana.
  • Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Kote Pan Kokhanka 29 December 2020 23: 32
    +2
    Quote: 3x3zsave
    A lot of things are growing in summer cottages beyond the Arctic Circle.

    Potatoes in greenhouses! I personally saw it without jokes.
  • Mordvin 3
    Mordvin 3 29 December 2020 23: 55
    +2
    Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
    Potatoes in greenhouses!

    And worms are grown on heating mains.
  • Fat
    Fat 29 December 2020 19: 35
    +2
    At the expense of "reflect"
    An explosion is always bad. Don't touch the trilobite! He always rolls "From the stove" and Our fragments ... What do they do?
  • Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku 30 December 2020 11: 56
    +1
    Don't touch the trilobite!

    Aha, you will touch him, of course! laughing This bear-intellectual (the phrase - respect for Mikhail!) Will cover himself with tangerines, and will go scratching with pearls all the more pearly and pearly, you can't stop! drinks Together with Viktor Nikolaevich Undecim they pass the title of the best commentator to each other, like a rolling pennant in socialist competition. good
  • Fat
    Fat 29 December 2020 19: 37
    +3
    Father, I just ... "RZHU NIMAGU"
  • Fat
    Fat 29 December 2020 14: 32
    +8
    This is yes. When visiting Crimea, local comrades said: "To live beyond our means is to eat potatoes every day." When I heard it for the first time, I was very surprised ...
  • Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Kote Pan Kokhanka 29 December 2020 15: 16
    +6
    Quote: Thick
    This is yes. When visiting Crimea, local comrades said: "To live beyond our means is to eat potatoes every day." When I heard it for the first time, I was very surprised ...

    MDA? I was also surprised to read your post recourse
  • Fat
    Fat 29 December 2020 15: 31
    +8
    Come on. This "pearl" refers to 1981. He was in the "squadron" almost all summer, so he picked it up for the rest of his life ... yes
  • Sling cutter
    Sling cutter 29 December 2020 19: 42
    +2
    Quote: Thick
    Come on. This "pearl" refers to 1981. He was in the "squadron" almost all summer, so he picked it up for the rest of his life ...

    Mdyaya, construction brigades, mechanized brigades; "Well, give me a key for 32! And where is he? And there he is! Ha = ha = ha = ha!" wassat
  • Fat
    Fat 29 December 2020 20: 34
    +3
    It's funny for you ... When they showed me the "account", I and not only "I", congruently "did it" while waiting for the bus. Hah, I understand. Hilling tomatoes and picking plums ("renklot" separately - "raisins" separately) is good ... In fact, it's not sweet ... I won't lie, Crimea, where it was interesting, on foot ... Arabat arrow - well, so with classmates from the "Izobilnoye" to the "Sea of ​​Azov" by running, and back ... (8-9 hours), on the second or third day we met the "boys" ...
    You wassat And I can not even choose anything wonderful, except for "tomato ice cream" ... Consider Common. the toilet, even in Simferopol, was not indicated on the diagram.
    In short. Earnings "X": minus tickets (round trip - plane), food, travel, accommodation in a glider ... When I arrived home, they announced "+ 11 rubles!" ...
    I took my worn out sneakers and nailed them over the front door ...
    Stroporez, "No need to laugh", but it was a lot of fun ..
    AHA! I envy myself ...
  • Krasnodar
    Krasnodar 29 December 2020 13: 23
    +6
    Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka
    In the Urals, corn is grown only as a fodder bait for silage. She does not even have time to turn yellow.
    Another thing is in Krasnodar. Near Kuchegur I saw her being harvested by a combine. There she really is the queen of the fields.

    Father-in-law has a stern
  • Sling cutter
    Sling cutter 29 December 2020 19: 46
    +2
    Quote: Krasnodar
    Father-in-law has a stern

    Along the route to Kerch, I saw only the stern, cooked .. bespontovaya and tasteless.
    This year, Banduelle's mother-in-law has planted this thing !! overeating !!! good drinks
  • Krasnoyarsk
    Krasnoyarsk 30 December 2020 17: 09
    0
    Quote: Krasnodar
    laughing of the upper classes of wheat used for various flour products, such as durum pasta, very little is always produced. Primarily

    Hard varieties of pasta? Something new in cooking. Joke.
    But seriously. Then, Yes, the USSR bought FOOD grain (barley, oats, and mainly corn) for cattle feeding. So that we have meat, milk and butter. Yes, in the USSR there were problems with feed grain (hence the shortage of compound feed), so the townspeople in the private sector had to feed the house. animals and poultry with BREAD. The game is terrible, but what happened was what happened.
    And the marketable grain lacked its own. Durum wheat was used for the preparation of semolina, poppy seeds. products, confectionery.
  • lucul
    lucul 29 December 2020 09: 58
    -1
    If they are selling it now, then the Soviet agricultural farm was built incorrectly and was managed very badly. And not only him.

    I, as it were, in most cases, do not agree with you, but not this time)))
    1. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 29 December 2020 10: 26
      +1
      Because the land should have an owner, not an abstract collective farm
    2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 29 December 2020 11: 24
      +7
      Quote: Krasnodar
      Because the land should have an owner, not an abstract collective farm

      Albert the emergence of collective farms in the USSR has a specific socio-economic background.
      Before the revolution and during the NEP years, cooperative agriculture showed its effectiveness. Especially in southern Siberia.
      There is something similar in Israel - the kibbutz. In Germany during this period there was a parody of collective farming. The Germans bought equipment in the assembly, and then used it in turn according to the drawing of lots.
      So collective farms are not a bad idea, in theory. It turned out to be insignificant in terms of implementation, only because they tried to siphon funds from the peasantry for the industrialization of the country.
    3. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 29 December 2020 13: 28
      +8
      Vlad, I lived in a kibbutz for a couple of years - it's completely different. Anarchist commune. All receive the same, all are equally interested in efficient farming. Shared cars, the same salary for the tractor driver and director, etc.
      In Germany, there is a general commercial interest.
      Soviet collective farms - I completely agree with you, but this was only at the first stage.
      Then - all do not care. After all, everything around is Soviet and everything around is mine.
    4. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 29 December 2020 13: 39
      +6
      Quote: Krasnodar
      Then - all do not care. After all, everything around is Soviet and everything around is mine.

      I agree completely!
  • Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku 29 December 2020 10: 48
    +2
    These are historical symbols of Russia and Orthodoxy

    What, they beat you? wink I said everything correctly, I support with all paws. Probably, state symbols, after all, should maintain historical continuity.
    But why was it necessary to churn out 100 thousand tanks in space instead of investing in agriculture, for example?

    Don't you find historical parallels? what Alexander the First, after beating Napoleon, began to stamp military settlements - the fear of the new Austerlitz was great. The USSR, in the threat of war with the capitalist part of the world, churned out tanks ... Whether it is right or not, I cannot say ... Although, given what happened later, it is probably still wrong ... what
    1. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 29 December 2020 13: 33
      +3
      Yes, you beat the poor Jew, catch up and beat him again drinks
      Yes, for a change, they would churn out more .. mmm ... decent cars and motorcycles. Instead of 64 thousand tanks, they would make 24 thousand and a couple of million cars. And VCRs. And tarragon abroad, for example, would begin to trade. And quilted jackets with earflaps in fashionable colors. But no - tanks, shmanki ..
      As for the settlements, they are more profitable than the maintenance of garrisons. Machiavelli also wrote.
      1. Pane Kohanku
        Pane Kohanku 29 December 2020 16: 37
        +3
        Instead of 64 thousand tanks, they would make 24 thousand and a couple of million cars. And VCRs. And tarragon abroad, for example, would begin to trade. And quilted jackets with earflaps in fashionable colors.

        Damn .. Your mind would be, but on a national scale! drinks
        Yes, you beat the poor Jew, catch up and beat him again

        Yeah, you will contact, how ... laughing drinks
        As for the settlements, they are more profitable than the maintenance of garrisons. Machiavelli also wrote.

        Do you think? The people did not like it ... Although the measure was exactly that - to optimize the recruitment of the army in the event of war, and before that - to have a trained reserve. By the way, there seemed to be a lot of Jews recruited - cantonists. soldier
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 29 December 2020 17: 06
          +3
          Trotsky's parents are Crimean cantonists)).
        2. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 29 December 2020 17: 20
          +4
          Trotsky's parents are Crimean cantonists

          Now it is clear why he first demobilized the old army, then created a new one. laughing drinks
        3. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 29 December 2020 17: 23
          +3
          This is how it was all intended laughing drinks
        4. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 29 December 2020 17: 36
          +3
          This is how it was all intended

          That's how we understood it! wink
  • Revolver
    Revolver 29 December 2020 07: 04
    -10%
    Quote: Vladimir_2U
    of bread intertwined with ribbons and tools

    This is our Soviet coat of arms:
    Слева hammer, on right sickle.
    Do you want to, but want to,
    You will get it anyway bread.
  • Revolver
    Revolver 29 December 2020 07: 00
    +3
    Quote: Krasnodar
    with Hammer and Sickle against the background of some reason Africa

    At the same time, the hammer is brought over Western Europe, and the tip of the sickle threatens America.
    1. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 29 December 2020 07: 04
      +2
      That is not, just, if you pay attention, the instruments go exactly through Eretz Yisrael. A hint of circumcision laughing
      1. Pane Kohanku
        Pane Kohanku 29 December 2020 12: 26
        +4
        That is not, just, if you pay attention, the instruments go exactly through Eretz Yisrael. A hint of circumcision

        Albert, but if you take the idea of ​​the coat of arms of the USSR ... In principle, does it coincide with Trotsky's opinion about the "world revolution"? No, I'm just philosophizing - as it were, without any politot, and even more so, trolling. Best regards to all participants in the discussion! (some have already stuck a minus to me)drinks
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 29 December 2020 13: 35
          +4
          No. Trotsky was a Marxist. The world revolution must spread strictly according to Engels — from highly developed industrial countries. "Otherwise, socialism in Russia will be a temporary phenomenon."
          Not from Africa. There, at the beginning of the 20th century, they had to wean them from cannibalism for years, and the feudal system was progressive. The non-colonized.
  • Olgovich
    Olgovich 29 December 2020 07: 29
    +2
    Quote: Krasnodar
    A pile on the principle of shoving unsuccessful with the Hammer and Sickle against the background of Africa for some reason,

    And the hammer clearly crushed .. Europe. lol

    Of the coats of arms of the Union republics, the most plucked ears and the least of them are on the emblem of the RSFSR: a lot went to the "sisters", as in reality.

    Interestingly, the author's opinion about the coat of arms of the USSR -from the point of view of the laws of heraldry
    1. kalibr
      29 December 2020 07: 56
      +6
      Quote: Olgovich
      The author's opinion about the coat of arms of the USSR is interesting - from the point of view of the laws of heraldry

      Actually, there will be an article about the coat of arms of the USSR. But we are always in a hurry ... So I will answer now. From the point of view of heraldry and PR - the coat of arms is exemplary!
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 29 December 2020 08: 12
        -3
        Quote: kalibr
        From the point of view of heraldry and PR - the coat of arms is exemplary!

        Repetition fifteen times "Proletarian din toate tserile, units-ve! "what pattern does it match? belay
        1. kalibr
          29 December 2020 08: 42
          +7
          Quote: Olgovich
          Repetition fifteen times "Proletarian din toate tserile, units-ve!" what sample does it meet?

          Why, something must necessarily correspond to something? Heraldry for all its traditions is not a dogma, but a guide to action. That's why she is good!
        2. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 29 December 2020 09: 13
          +3
          Quote: Olgovich

          Repetition fifteen times "Proletarian din toate tserile, units-ve! "what pattern does it match? belay


          Moldova Sovetique, playul nostru'n floare))
          Soviet Moldavia, our flower land
        3. Fat
          Fat 29 December 2020 16: 28
          +1
          The number of tapes with the slogan "Proletarians of all countries" always varied from 6 to 16. A tape with a motto, not an invention of advice, however ... Only the USSR with its national policy could afford this. With respect...
          PS I, personally, in many respects do not agree with the national policy of the USSR. But in the first version (1923), apart from mistakes, there was a very clear idea: One tape - for the entire Central Asian part ... Language - Turkic and the corresponding slogan - one tape is enough for ALL Central Asian republics. The inventors of the Soviet national writing are a completely different matter. "East is a delicate matter" (c)
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 29 December 2020 21: 28
            0
            Quote: Thick
            A tape with a motto, not an invention of advice, however ...

            Nobody else asserted.

            But the same motto, repeated .... fifteen times in a row on ... one coat of arms ?!

            Where was that? hi
            1. Fat
              Fat 29 December 2020 22: 03
              +2
              Quote: Olgovich
              Where was that?

              Andrey, Nowhere. But, such as the state education of the Russian Federation, is also unique in its own way.
              Finish with your comparisons. Our grandchildren live in real life, to fulfill the requests of great-grandchildren. No matter how the "alignment" happens ...
              Grandfathers can "...." measure themselves, grandchildren, at best, will not understand ....
              Store your archives. It is important.
            2. Fat
              Fat 31 December 2020 02: 51
              0
              And how much was needed?
              Along the way, nowhere, except for your notes ...
              Andrey, you are honest ...
    2. Revolver
      Revolver 29 December 2020 08: 00
      -4
      Quote: Olgovich
      The author's opinion about the coat of arms of the USSR is interesting - from the point of view of the laws of heraldry
      The English-language Wikipedia says in plain text that this is nothing more than an emblem and cannot be considered a coat of arms, since it does not comply with the laws of heraldry.
      Quote: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Emblem_of_the_Soviet_Union

      The State Emblem of the Soviet Union [a] was adopted in 1923 and was used until the dissolution of the Soviet Union in 1991. Although it technically is an emblem rather than a coat of arms, since it does not follow traditional heraldic rules, in Russian it is called coat of arms (gerb), the word used for a traditional coat of arms.
      1. kalibr
        29 December 2020 08: 44
        +10
        There are many coats of arms in the same England about which the same can be said, but they exist.
      2. Fat
        Fat 29 December 2020 17: 33
        +2
        Colleague, Nagant. I have not climbed into the English-language Wiki, but I'll tell you right away that the USA, USA, has no official emblem at all!
        What we see is the "Great Seal". The coat of arms is a bald eagle. from the front of the seal ... And the obverse ... Words are useless when there is a dollar, everything is engraved, just turn it over, look at the other side:
  • Vladimir_2U
    Vladimir_2U 29 December 2020 08: 21
    +2
    Somehow I missed:
    Quote: Krasnodar
    against the background of some reason Africa

    Well, yes, lonely Russia on the globe would look logical, what to say here.
  • Krasnoyarsk
    Krasnoyarsk 30 December 2020 16: 53
    0
    Quote: Krasnodar
    I'm not talking about tradition, I'm about meaning and aesthetics
    A pile up on the principle of shoving unsuccessful with the Hammer and Sickle against the background of some reason Africa, which contradicts Marxism, by the way lol is simply a banal lack of Taste. ))

    What does Africa have to do with it? The globe is depicted. And, did not understand what contradicts Marxism there?
    A-ah, I got it. Everyone sees what he wants to see.
    In fact, the coat of arms of the USSR is the most beautiful from an aesthetic point of view, and the semantic load is at its best. In every sense, he is the best.
  • Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Kote Pan Kokhanka 29 December 2020 06: 38
    +12
    Hello, from the Soviet symbols I prefer and perceive more - the first star of the Red Army, a hammer and a plow against the background of a star. The hammer and sickle are more familiar, but we somehow accepted more oblique Lithuanian, to work.
    Although initially before the 13th century, a braid was used in Russia - pink salmon.
    1. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 29 December 2020 06: 44
      +8
      Good morning Vlad hi I also like the plow and hammer better. With sickle association laughing
    2. Aerodrome
      Aerodrome 29 December 2020 06: 48
      +9
      Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
      Although initially before the 13th century, a braid was used in Russia - pink salmon.

      first calluses from "Lithuanian" ...
    3. Crowe
      Crowe 29 December 2020 08: 33
      +13
      Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
      from the Soviet symbols, I prefer my soul and perception - the first star of the Red Army a hammer and a plow against the background of a star

      Oh how! I am glad that he is not alone in his preferences - indeed, this symbol

      In my humble opinion, it most fully corresponded to the spirit of the Red Army. It was the hammer and the plow that I consider the most successful symbol of the unity of the urban worker and the village plowman. But what the leaflet issued at that time said:
      “... The Red Army is fighting for the star of truth to shine on the peasant-plowman and the hammer-worker, so that they have will and share, rest and bread, and not only need, poverty and continuous work. All under the Red Star, comrades! She is the star of happiness for all poor people, peasants and workers. This is what the Red Star of the Red Army means "

      And on the first Soviet order - the Red Banner of the RSFSR, established on September 16, 1918, images of a hammer and a plow share were very useful. Unfortunately, I have not been able to find any information about who invented this symbol. Kamzolkin is more familiar to all of us, of course, but I always liked the plow and hammer more.
      1. Vladimir_2U
        Vladimir_2U 29 December 2020 08: 49
        -2
        They abandoned the plow, according to one version among me laughing , perhaps because both the hammer and sickle can serve as a weapon, but the plow cannot.
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 29 December 2020 10: 18
          +10
          Then another example of militants!

          Coat of arms of the Austrian Republic.
  • Olgovich
    Olgovich 29 December 2020 08: 02
    -8
    Quote: Krasnodar
    Here just hammer and sickle

    Don't say, "just" the sickle turned out to be a very complex and mysterious thing for "peasants" lol from the leadership of the young country "gaboche-kgestian" lol

    The fact is that initially the sickle was depicted on the coat of arms of the USSR ... WRONG (handle) and for 14 years it was depicted this way. Then, apparently, the social elevator worked and one of those who rose suggested yes
    1. Vladimir_2U
      Vladimir_2U 29 December 2020 08: 59
      -5
      Yes, much better than an unviable bird.
      1. Krasnodar
        Krasnodar 29 December 2020 09: 17
        +5
        The bird is historical. From the 15th, in my opinion, century (Vyacheslav Olegovich will not let you lie), was used as the coat of arms of Russia
        1. kalibr
          29 December 2020 09: 57
          +7
          Quote: Krasnodar
          as the coat of arms of Russia

          For the first time in print in 1497!
        2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 29 December 2020 10: 06
          +7
          Quote: Krasnodar
          The bird is historical. From the 15th, in my opinion, century (Vyacheslav Olegovich will not let you lie), was used as the coat of arms of Russia

          The coat of arms and banner of the Fatherland is not chosen.
          The image of a two-eyed eagle, first noted on the clothes of the Chernigov Olegovichi, if not in the 12-13 centuries.
          As a symbol of state power on the seal of Vasily III, the son of Ivan III the Terrible and Sophia Palaeologus. By the way, the father of Ivan IV the Terrible.
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 29 December 2020 11: 03
            +3
            Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
            The image of the two-eyed eagle was first noted on the clothes of the Chernigov Olegovich,

            Yes, as I remember now ... yes
      2. Olgovich
        Olgovich 29 December 2020 09: 18
        -8
        Quote: Vladimir_2U
        Yes, much better


        What is better, that in NONE of the leading "gaboche-kgestians" he did not hold a sickle in his hands and did not know HOW it looked right? belay lol
        1. Vladimir_2U
          Vladimir_2U 29 December 2020 09: 40
          0
          Quote: Olgovich
          What is better, that in NONE of the leading "gaboche-Khestyan" in his hands did not hold a sickle and did not know HOW it looked right
          Those. according to this logic, the eagles in Russia flew entirely double-headed? Well, the coat of arms was drawn not by the "kagal" of the Bolsheviks, but by a specific artist.
        2. Trilobite Master
          Trilobite Master 29 December 2020 10: 42
          +5
          Quote: Olgovich
          What is better, that in NONE of the leading "gaboche-kgestians" he did not hold a sickle in his hands and did not know HOW it looked right?

          I have not heard of this. What was the mistake?
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 29 December 2020 11: 13
            -7
            Quote: Trilobite Master
            I have not heard of this. What was the mistake?


            The handle of a real sickle has a thickening at the bottom so that it does not slip out during operation.

            In the first coat of arms (for 14 years) it was ... the opposite.

            You already have the correct one

            и
            1. Trilobite Master
              Trilobite Master 29 December 2020 11: 36
              +1
              Clear. Found the original image.
              It's funny ... I would not have noticed either, although I have a sickle in my house, and it is exactly what I need ... smile
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 29 December 2020 15: 33
                -1
                Quote: Trilobite Master
                although I have a sickle in my house, and it is exactly what I need ..

                And I have the same: no, no, yes and yes. yes
            2. Trilobite Master
              Trilobite Master 29 December 2020 12: 07
              +2
              Quote: Olgovich
              "gaboche-kgestian"

              Just now I noticed - Olgovich, did you also become anti-Semites? It seems that you haven't noticed this before, or have I missed something?
              You should know perfectly well the composition of the SNK in these years ...
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 29 December 2020 15: 25
                0
                Quote: Trilobite Master
                Just now I noticed - Olgovich, did you also become anti-Semites? It seems that you haven't noticed this before, or have I missed something?

                belay request
                You insulted me in the best feelings! negative

                Mother-in-law was sure all my life that I am a Jew lol (almost all of them are friends)

                Grazing is a special pronunciation of the sound [r], characteristic for the French (usually Parisians).
                Efremova's explanatory dictionary. T.F. Efremova. 2000

                Here is an inveterate Parisian and we have a lot of records for that .. yes
                Quote: Trilobite Master
                You should be well aware of the composition of the SNK in these years.

                I know, of course, the composition of the Presidium of the All-Russian Central Executive Committee of Soviets (VTsIK), elected on October 26, 1917:

                Chairman: Yeshua Movshevich
                Members:
                Moses Goldstein
                Ovshiy Nakhamkis
                Lev Rosenfeld
                Felix Dzerzhinsky
                Knock

                (from the book by Vadim Kozhinov)
                1. Krasnodar
                  Krasnodar 29 December 2020 17: 54
                  +2
                  Quote: Olgovich

                  Chairman: Yeshua Movshevich
                  Members:
                  Moses Goldstein
                  Ovshiy Nakhamkis
                  Lev Rosenfeld
                  Felix Dzerzhinsky
                  Knock

                  (from the book by Vadim Kozhinov)

                  1) Why did not your Vadim Kozhinov name Yeshua Movshevich by his popularly known name - Comrade Sverdlov? In fact, his birth name was Yankel-Aaron, but according to legend, “if it were not for the Jews, they would have lived like in Switzerland, because there would have been no revolution” - everything fits together. lol
                  2) Moses Goldstein - known to the people as Volodarsky. But his real name is emphasized due to the fact that if it were not for the Jews, the tsarist army would stop beating the officers on the front line, and went to defeat Germany fellow
                  3) Oviy Nakhamksis - he is Steklov, he was not in the first All-Russian Central Executive Committee, he was on the presidiums of the second and third.
                  4) Lev Rosenfeld, known as Kamenev - if not for him, the king would not have been forced to abdicate the throne negative And instead of the dollar, oil trade would go for rubles, and instead of an iPhone, girls would be tempted for Yotafon. soldier
                  5) Alternate Reality is so cool, right? laughing
                2. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 29 December 2020 21: 50
                  -1
                  Quote: Krasnodar
                  Why did your Vadim Kozhinov not name Eshua Movshevich by his popularly known name - Comrade Sverdlov?

                  do not scold Kozhinov: he wrote Sverdlov, Volodarsky, Svetlov, Kamenev.

                  I sincerely don’t understand, but what’s wrong with mentioning real names, and not part names?

                  I have a bunch of friends, acquaintances at school, university and after and all proudly wore their Jewish surnames: the same Goldstein, Shamis, Siris, Perelmuter, etc. And this was self-evident and no one paid any attention. There were no Russian surnames.

                  I am sincerely sorry that there was no one left, everyone left. Wonderful, wonderful, smart guys. And girls too yes
                3. Krasnodar
                  Krasnodar 29 December 2020 22: 16
                  +2
                  There is nothing wrong with the burr-out guys who do not know where the Guchka Segpa is, no, I just find it funny when the Revolution is presented as a purely Jewish act that has well hampered the development of Russia hi
        3. Crowe
          Crowe 29 December 2020 13: 31
          +12
          The handle of a real sickle has a thickening at the bottom

          Olgovich, "the wrong honey", you say? How do you like to make categorical statements, your comments are simply permeated with egocentrism ... The sickle hands are wrong ... You seriously believe that people who lived at the beginning of the last century never saw peasant tools in their eyes and painted the wrong sickle on the coat of arms of the country? But nothing that in our (my relatives)
          villages, for example, there were always sickles without any thickenings, like this

          so that it does not slip out during operation.

          Nothing slipped out of anyone - he himself ate the grass with the same grass, the Lithuanians did not trust us at the haymaking - "you are still small, they say."
        4. Liam
          Liam 29 December 2020 22: 12
          +1
          Quote: Olgovich
          Quote: Trilobite Master
          I have not heard of this. What was the mistake?


          The handle of a real sickle has a thickening at the bottom so that it does not slip out during operation.

          In the first coat of arms (for 14 years) it was ... the opposite.

          You already have the correct one

          и

          Sickles have been different, especially 100 years ago, and there have been such, for example.

          The sickle handle was always made of wood, short, narrowed in the middle, to make it easier to hold in your hand.

          https://www.google.com.ua/search?q=%D1%81%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%BF&tbm=isch&tbs=rimg:CW-qaBCZbSG5YTJ1EcXq3ZvQ&client=opera&hs=fNS&hl=it&sa=X&ved=0CBUQuIIBahcKEwiwsN3h8PPtAhUAAAAAHQAAAAAQFQ&biw=360&bih=647

          Serial supplier of exaggerated sensations)
      3. Fat
        Fat 29 December 2020 11: 45
        +1
        Corrected in 1937. Coat of arms approved in 1923
        1. Fat
          Fat 29 December 2020 15: 48
          +2
          Colleagues, Thanks for the cons. So that life does not seem too easy, I will add:

          The quality is decent, you can increase it. Chervonets 1932, or rather three ...
          1. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 29 December 2020 16: 55
            +2
            Quote: Thick
            Colleagues, Thanks for the cons.

            I don’t understand why they got to the bottom of this handle? There were also those with a thickening on top. But much less often. As for the corrections, the number of ribbons on the coat of arms is much more important than the shape of the handle.
            1. Fat
              Fat 29 December 2020 17: 51
              0
              Fair? I don't care about the "glitches" of the draftsmen. All this is far-fetched by and large.but". Symbols approved by the law of the country, nevertheless," A very serious thing. " No.
              In your image there are 11 coils on tape, absolutely consistent with the 1936 constitution.
              Thank you, I know that.
              In addition, there were changes in the inscription in the Belarusian language ... I cannot date, I do not remember when. Seek and find if you are really interested.
            2. Mordvin 3
              Mordvin 3 29 December 2020 17: 58
              +2
              Quote: Thick
              Seek and find if you are really interested.

              Do I need it? What is indicated on our coat of arms was studied at school.
            3. Fat
              Fat 29 December 2020 18: 10
              +1
              It is clear, you, Vladimir, do not know how it was, were not interested.
              Keep in mind, before the advent of large format printing with large, especially ideological content, forms were problems. "One mistake - the workplace is free" (c) And what WE studied at school, in general, no words can be found (if politically correct laughing ).
            4. Mordvin 3
              Mordvin 3 29 December 2020 18: 16
              +2
              Quote: Thick
              It is clear, you, Vladimir, do not know how it was, were not interested.

              It is enough for me to know that there were no standards for the handle of sickles in those years, and the artist could at least draw a snag in this place. He chose a rather rare option. And I admit that they changed it at the numerous requests of those who popularly discussed the sketch of a new coat of arms in the 30s. IMHO.
            5. Fat
              Fat 29 December 2020 21: 29
              +1
              The nationwide discussion of the draft coat of arms of the USSR is just a legend of the USSR 1936., of the same class as the nationwide discussion of amendments to the Basic Law of the Russian Federation
              Do you believe the "Putin clique"? And what makes you, an adult, refuse to trust the "clique"?
              If you follow our "TATRA", those who do not care about the "ENEMIES" of society ...
              It’s clear here.
            6. Mordvin 3
              Mordvin 3 29 December 2020 21: 31
              +1
              Quote: Thick
              And what makes you, an adult, refuse to trust the "clique"?

              The fact that they do not confirm their words with deeds.
            7. Fat
              Fat 31 December 2020 02: 05
              0
              Don't Rot! Never told your spouse?
              "The fact that they do not confirm their words with deeds ..." (c)
  • lucul
    lucul 29 December 2020 09: 21
    0
    Don't tell me, "just" the sickle turned out to be a very complicated and mysterious thing for the "peasants" lol from the leadership of the young country "gaboche-kgestian"

    Excellent sarcasm)))
  • BAI
    BAI 29 December 2020 15: 36
    +9
    If the artist has caught sight of a sickle of a rare model, this does not mean that there was no such sickle or that it is wrong.

    And something in the handle could have been exaggerated for aesthetics.
    Better to find fault with the hammer. Hammer-undercutter (ax-hammer) - with one beveled corner, is even less common.
    1. Fat
      Fat 29 December 2020 19: 04
      +1
      Quote: BAI
      Better to find fault with the hammer.

      So. YES! No one in their right mind took it for a realistic image on the coat of arms.
      This is not a photo, sorry, but a "stylization" of the object. Although, for the sake of fairness, a stylized hammer is very realistic ... or you're never a locksmith at all request
  • lucul
    lucul 29 December 2020 09: 17
    -5
    just as disgusting is the current

    I do not agree - take George away, tweak it a little and everything will be fine. It is based on the Hittite eagle.
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 29 December 2020 10: 23
      +5
      I do not know I was strained by something else.
      "Women's emblems were diamond-shaped."
      Our badges about education too, even pre-revolutionary ones.

      Badge of the Doctor of Science of the Russian Empire.

      The sign of the graduated university of the times of the USSR.
      1. lucul
        lucul 29 December 2020 10: 29
        -1
        I do not know I was strained by something else.

        Signs, signs / symbols - we do not understand the original source, but puppeteers know it.
  • kalibr
    29 December 2020 08: 00
    +11
    Glad you like it. And the article is already ready, on moderation ...
    1. lucul
      lucul 29 December 2020 09: 23
      +7
      Glad you like it. And the article is already ready, on moderation ...

      Only in old age does a person realize that the greatest value in this life is to give people joy (as, for example, the older generation - grandchildren). But not everyone "ripens" to this)))
  • Bar1
    Bar1 29 December 2020 10: 10
    +5
    depiction of the French knights, the Brittany duke, the Bourbon duke and the Knight of Savoy.
    At the Savoy Knight we see the symbolism of a double-headed eagle. But the double-headed eagle is a symbol of Byzantium, Russia and the Holy Roman Empire of the Germans. As France was not included in these countries anywhere. This is according to the OI.
    Most likely, the power that had the symbol of the two-headed eagle does not coincide on the borders with the generally accepted OI.
    All three have solar crowns with symbols.
    Only the Knights of Savoy have a spear, the others have swords. It was considered that tournaments on spears were of higher rank among knights than on swords.

    1. kalibr
      29 December 2020 10: 35
      +2
      Quote: Bar1
      Somehow, France was not included in these countries anywhere.

      Do not confuse the coat of arms of the state and the person. Open the Manesian Codex. There are a lot of eagles.
    2. kalibr
      29 December 2020 10: 41
      +1
      Quote: Bar1
      Only the Knights of Savoy have a spear, the others have swords. It was considered that tournaments on spears were of higher rank among knights than on swords.

      No need for fantasies. And then some will really decide that you understand this. I had a series of articles about tournaments here. You can find it through a search engine or through a profile. There is also about this ...
      1. Bar1
        Bar1 29 December 2020 11: 11
        +5
        you can and understand what, Duc only that everyone knows.
        As for the two-headed eagle, this is not initially the coat of arms of an individual, but the state coat of arms, city, and of people exposed by the authorities.
        1. kalibr
          29 December 2020 11: 45
          -2
          Well, yes, and you are in what no one knows! Except you. Transcendental knowledge is splendid!
          1. Fat
            Fat 29 December 2020 16: 59
            +2
            Why am I "ponahvatamshi" too. George slays the dragon. So it's like, "The Horseman striking the Chin" ie China. And the world was concluded in the "Star Temple", "zero count", but for some reason, according to the Byzantine version, it coincides with just the creation of the world ... A beautiful and very romantic hypothesis. But there are very few traces. crying
  • Korsar4
    Korsar4 29 December 2020 05: 56
    +6
    Simplicity attracts more than pretentiousness. But this was the first to be snapped up. And to others, what is left.
    1. Fat
      Fat 29 December 2020 18: 46
      +2
      Here, Sergei, this is the case. Pretentiousness is just the style of the era. Italian quattrocento, baroque, rococo, empire ... It doesn't matter. The transmission of tradition is important ... "Alas", or "Ave" ... Time will tell where, simply "Hee-Hee", and where "Wed .. God." In general, I am surprised, in part, that the “initiators” of the creation of models are “people far from modern reality”. I will not develop, forgive me ... I ate ...
      1. Korsar4
        Korsar4 29 December 2020 22: 23
        +2
        Probably. I understand little about the directions in architecture.
        I was glad to learn in due time that the Empire style is a product of classicism.

        And how traditions are passed on is also not so clear.

        Something - by nature. And something - does not hurt.
        1. Fat
          Fat 29 December 2020 23: 28
          +2
          Oh, leave it, Sergei!
          How?
          laughing Empire style differs from Russian classicism in about the same way as "woo with vodka:" and "pour more vodka!" drinks
          1. Korsar4
            Korsar4 30 December 2020 04: 39
            +2
            I can’t be sure. And I won't get into the book for long.
            But I will remember an example in the spirit of General Charnota.
  • Van 16
    Van 16 29 December 2020 06: 21
    +8
    It would seem - an article for specialists, or a very narrow circle of amateurs. It would seem that it has no practical relation to modern life. But it is very informative and very interesting. Highly. Thank you!
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 29 December 2020 11: 53
      +7
      Ivan! hi
      article for specialists, or a very narrow circle of amateurs.
      On the contrary! The basic principles of blazing are presented in a very concise and accessible form.
      1. Van 16
        Van 16 29 December 2020 12: 40
        +5
        "It would seem - an article for specialists"
        hi
        And so you are, of course, right. At least for me, as a non-specialist and layman, it was very interesting to read. I have never been particularly fond of heraldry, but here is a completely new and very interesting world. With its own laws, with its own history ..
  • Olgovich
    Olgovich 29 December 2020 06: 39
    0
    Well, what figures on the coat of arms could describe the high moral feelings of its owner: strength, wealth, loyalty to duty? It turns out to be the simplest. These are geometric patterns on the shield, which are usually called "honorary"

    And what geometric patterns are NOT honorable and mean "weakness, poverty, betrayal?"

    If there are none, then ... any.
    1. Aerodrome
      Aerodrome 29 December 2020 06: 53
      +2
      in general, all this is strange. earlier on the Shield-Coat of Arms, all the pedigree, valor, (which was on the Coat of Arms of the USSR) now, as it were, to blinded it with a beautiful touch ... and so, interestingly, I like to read this "the castle is hidden by time and wrapped up in cover ..."
      Vyacheslav Shpakovsky, do you sleep at all?
      1. kalibr
        29 December 2020 07: 53
        +9
        Yes, I am leading a very healthy lifestyle. Always sleep at 10.00 or so. Wake up at 6.00:7.30 or so. Today, we slept, got up at 40. Exercise, breakfast, second tomorrow, lunch, sleep, tea, exercise, dinner - everything is on schedule. Mandatory XNUMX min. walking briskly down the street. Before, always on foot to and from work ...
        1. Aerodrome
          Aerodrome 29 December 2020 08: 48
          +6
          Quote: kalibr
          Yes, I am leading a very healthy lifestyle.

          it's in vain ... you are depriving so much of the joys ... (joking) wink you work very hard ... this is no longer a "healthy lifestyle", many burn out on this, Happy New Year to you, and all the best. I will be glad to read you next year.
          1. kalibr
            29 December 2020 09: 18
            +5
            Quote: Aerodrome
            you work very hard ... this is no longer a "healthy lifestyle", many burn out on this, Happy New Year to you, and all the best.

            Thank you! I wish you a happy New Year, health and happiness, even though these are banal wishes. And relatively "a lot". It's like saying ... I have a lot of rest. I help my wife to cook, go with her for groceries, go to the market alone, walk again ... an evening family movie. There is enough time even for bingo with my family ... I write mostly in the morning and very quickly. On average, an article is written in 2 hours. Longer, much longer it takes to select a photo. The granddaughter sometimes shouts: "Where are you?" "Now on the site of the Royal Arsenal in Leeds." "And now?" "Ooh, at the arms auction site in Titunsville, Florida!" But it enriches me very much. And this is interesting. In the evening I write mainly books (based on already written articles -he-heh) and novels - 2 pages per evening. But this is a very nervous activity. Some cry over them, although everything ends well. And in the summer there is still a summer house, carpentry, badminton with a granddaughter, agricultural work. But also food. Oh, what ... By the way, I understood why most of the English aristocrats are so lean. Very high quality food, so they eat little by little. So in the summer I generally have communism that Mars and Engels dreamed of.
    2. kalibr
      29 December 2020 07: 54
      +5
      Quote: Olgovich
      And what geometric patterns are NOT honorable and mean "weakness, poverty, betrayal?"

      There will be about this!
      1. depressant
        depressant 29 December 2020 12: 46
        +2
        Vyacheslav Olegovich, do you help your wife to cook? So you put on an apron? )))
        So what without the details about surco? Here, my home apron is cut so that if it is lengthened to the floor, it will turn out surcoal. Well, of course, not as rich as the young ladies of the Middle Ages, but in general - yes, surcoat. And the knights of the surcoas wear both an apron and a sleeveless robe. They say that the metal from the sun does not overheat. It is not for nothing that in Central Asia, in the heat, they wear warm, according to our ideas, robes. And also - from dust, dirt and moisture, so that the armor does not rust if possible.
        1. kalibr
          29 December 2020 12: 55
          +3
          I do not like an apron, although sometimes my wife puts it on me. It is inconvenient to cook in a terry dressing gown. In summer, a silk kimono is hot, and in winter, just a tracksuit. Well, surcoat is also heraldic clothing, embroidered with coats of arms or heraldic figures or patterns, and coat of arms
          1. depressant
            depressant 29 December 2020 13: 05
            +3
            Okay, persuaded! )))
            We'll have to make an applique in the form of a coat of arms on an apron - that's an unexpected concern! And who is there among my Polish ancestors, an aristocrat? True, all Poles are pans)))
            I'll choose some royal coat of arms, maybe I won't be mistaken.
            1. kalibr
              29 December 2020 13: 48
              +3
              I would recommend you a simpler coat of arms. Well, let's say, a blue shield, on it a golden rafter - nobility and support, for a woman is always a support, even to herself. To the left, to the right of the rafters are two hammers, and below it is the image of an anvil - the name of Kuznetsov. An extremely open helmet of the "pill" type, such was worn by female warriors in the Middle century, a golden-blue lambrequin in the color of the coat of arms, embroidered with hammers, and on the helmet a sitting cat with a raised paw is a symbol of the mistress of the house. Also the supporters - white and black cats in gold collars. On a green meadow in flowers. The motto on the tape: "It is noticeable even among warlike men."
              1. depressant
                depressant 29 December 2020 14: 23
                +4
                Cool! ))) Vyacheslav Olegovich, yes you are a professional in matters of heraldry! And how did the secretary of the Imperial House, Mr. Zakatov, pass you by? ))) He now has a lot of work, heraldists and compilers of genealogical trees are working day and night in connection with the impending legalization of the feudal system, there is also a queue!
                1. kalibr
                  29 December 2020 15: 15
                  +4
                  I have been interested since childhood, I wrote. I read many books ... everything is simple. I started cooking when I was in first grade. Life made me.
            2. Catfish
              Catfish 29 December 2020 18: 21
              +4
              Good evening, Lyudmila. love
              Once I saw Fazil Iskander's performance in front of an audience on TV, something like "Creative Evening". From the audience he was asked a question: "Is it true that you are a princely family?" To which Iskander replied: "In the Caucasus, if there are two rams, it's already a prince."
              So I thought about the Poles, if there is a lame mare and a rusty saber - already a gentry. I have every right, because the family itself has some kind of small gentry (among all others)))))

              Happy New You! All the best and health. smile
              1. depressant
                depressant 29 December 2020 20: 14
                +3
                Thank you, dear colleague, for your good wishes! And all the best to you and health! love
                I believe we will have one more opportunity to congratulate each other - Vyacheslav Olegovich will not leave us without an article on December 31)))
              2. Korsar4
                Korsar4 29 December 2020 22: 29
                +3
                And instead of a mare now - an ATV?

                But where is the qualification that separates the gentry from our middle class?
                1. Catfish
                  Catfish 30 December 2020 00: 56
                  +2
                  And instead of a rusty saber, there is something.))
                  And about the quad, if it's serious, then yesterday (already the day before yesterday) four hours in the dark and in the cold we dealt with it, but they brought it to mind, today in the afternoon (i.e. already yesterday) through fresh snow in the field, but with drift and breeze , the buzz is full and no vodka is needed, it's a pity only the muzzle quickly froze. drinks
                  1. Korsar4
                    Korsar4 30 December 2020 04: 44
                    +2
                    Nicely told.
                    Like Kipling's tale in our time: both the first friend and the first servant.

                    And who walks by himself, you have.
  • tlauicol
    tlauicol 29 December 2020 06: 49
    +10
    good difficult as they have everything there ..
  • Ilya22558
    Ilya22558 29 December 2020 08: 54
    +8
    Thank you very much!!!! Very informative, looking forward to continuing!
  • Undecim
    Undecim 29 December 2020 08: 59
    +11
    Quote: Olgovich
    Do not tell me, "just" the sickle turned out to be a very complicated and mysterious thing for the "peasants" from the leadership of the young country "gaboche-kgestian"

    The fact is that initially the sickle was depicted on the coat of arms of the USSR ... WRONG (handle) and for 14 years it was depicted this way. Then, apparently, the social elevator worked and one of those who rose suggested

    Another "distortion of the truth" from olgovich.
    The drawing of the USSR Emblem was personally approved by the Chairman of the Presidium of the Central Executive Committee of the USSR A.S. Yenukidze, who was born and raised in a peasant family.
    1. lucul
      lucul 29 December 2020 10: 08
      -3
      The drawing of the USSR Emblem was personally approved by the Chairman of the Presidium of the Central Executive Committee of the USSR A.S. Yenukidze, who was born and raised in a peasant family.

      The signature on duty, no more - it was not he who decided there.
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 29 December 2020 10: 12
        +2
        And read before writing?
        1. lucul
          lucul 29 December 2020 10: 16
          0
          And read before writing?

          Were you born yesterday? Position does not mean that this person decides something))) There were many kings in history when they did not decide anything in their country ...
          1. Undecim
            Undecim 29 December 2020 12: 07
            +2
            I was not born yesterday, because I see that you wrote nonsense, but with aplomb.
  • ee2100
    ee2100 29 December 2020 09: 14
    +8
    Blue blood "This expression was first used by the Spaniards who had not entered into a" relationship "with the maras. That is, their skin remained white and blue veins are visible on it.
    The appearance of the blue color on the coat of arms is a consequence, and not vice versa. The French borrowed this expression from their neighbors.
  • ee2100
    ee2100 29 December 2020 10: 34
    0
    All comments revolve around Russia anyway. It is interesting to look at the coats of arms of our neighbors.
    Predators depicted on the coats of arms: Finland, Norway, Estonia, Lithuania, Poland, Germany, Austria, Czech Republic, Romania, Bulgaria and even Georgia St. George all are turned to the east, i.e. towards Russia. In Russia, George the Victorious looks to the west.
    Here are the priorities in the field of foreign policy. Now it's clear where the enemy is!
    1. kalibr
      29 December 2020 11: 48
      +4
      In heraldry, the left hand rule applies ...
      1. ee2100
        ee2100 29 December 2020 12: 00
        0
        And where is anyone looking?
        1. kalibr
          29 December 2020 12: 22
          +3
          So, Alexander. I already wrote to you - you don't know, don't write. So, "where the enemy is not clear" from the coat of arms. Now about the "left hand rule" ... The coat of arms is a knight's shield. Turn our "rider" over and put it on your left hand. And he will be forward in the direction of travel ... backwards. Such a situation in heraldry was called "cowardly". But we also had the "correct coat of arms". Small Russian Empire ...
          1. ee2100
            ee2100 29 December 2020 13: 14
            +1
            "The sides in heraldry are defined in terms of who stands behind the shield and holds it; thus, for the viewer facing the shield, the right heraldic side is on the left, the left heraldic side is on the right. Therefore, the heraldic right and left sides are mirrored. relation to the ordinary understand these words. "
            Geraldika.ru
            And what's wrong here? I have listed the coats of arms, where the animals are directed to the left, i.e. to the East.
            1. kalibr
              29 December 2020 13: 34
              +4
              Quote: ee2100
              And what's wrong here? I have listed the coats of arms, where the animals are directed to the left, i.e. to the East.

              But why do you think that to the left it is to the East?
              1. ee2100
                ee2100 29 December 2020 13: 56
                +1
                Take the shield in your left hand and turn to face the enemy and where will the beast look?
                1. kalibr
                  29 December 2020 15: 17
                  +3
                  Quote: ee2100
                  Take the shield in your left hand and turn to face the enemy and where will the beast look?

                  That's it! Is it to the East?
                  1. ee2100
                    ee2100 29 December 2020 15: 56
                    -2
                    On the coat of arms of Russia you have cited, George the Victorious looks to the left, but really looks to the right. It is not clear what this coat of arms is.
                    So be it. If you are looking at the map, the west is on the left and the east is on the right. You yourself wrote that everything is conditional in heraldry. Above, I gave a paragraph from the Heraldika.ru website on the spread of figures on the coat of arms. What's so difficult. If you took a shield with a coat of arms in your hand, then in relation to you everything changed in a mirror image. And on this incorrect coat of arms, George the Victorious is directed to the right, i.e., to the east.
                    You are starting to be clever right-left, east-west. I hope you do not exclude the ideological component of modern state emblems?
                    1. kalibr
                      29 December 2020 16: 13
                      +4
                      Quote: ee2100
                      You are starting to be clever right-left, east-west. I hope you do not exclude the ideological component of modern state emblems?

                      I don't understand what kind of cleverness there is. You wrote - Victorious looks to the West. There are enemies.
                      I wrote the "left hand rule". In addition, where the shield with the warrior turns, he will look there. You can be guided by our maps, right? Those. west on the left, east on the right. If you look at them. But if on the same map a warrior with a shield looks around, then ... the answer is obvious. But at the same time, excuse me, our "George" will look at the enemy with his back. That is, we have him "cowardly". That's all! You just have to think before you write and not persist in delusions. If you are the same stubborn doctor as the commentator here, then I am simply afraid for your patients. It will be easier for you to ditch them than to admit that you are wrong.
                      1. ee2100
                        ee2100 29 December 2020 18: 13
                        -1
                        You don't have to get personal and tell me what to do.
                        1.What is your strange Russian coat of arms
                        2. Comment if not difficult "The sides in heraldry are defined in terms of who stands behind the shield and holds it; thus, for the viewer facing the shield, the right heraldic side is on the left, the left heraldic side is on the right. the heraldic right and left sides are mirrored in relation to the ordinary understanding of these words. "
                        Or do you not understand it?
    2. Undecim
      Undecim 29 December 2020 12: 12
      +5
      even in Georgia St. George all turned east
      And how are the cardinal directions indicated in heraldry on coats of arms?
      1. ee2100
        ee2100 29 December 2020 12: 14
        +2
        Ask the author laughing
        1. Undecim
          Undecim 29 December 2020 12: 58
          +4
          What does the author have to do with it? You say that some have something there turned to the east, while others - to the west. So it was determined somehow. By the compass?
          1. ee2100
            ee2100 29 December 2020 13: 17
            0
            You can use a sextant
            1. Undecim
              Undecim 29 December 2020 13: 33
              +4
              And you can honestly admit: "I blurted it without thinking." Have you considered this option?
              1. ee2100
                ee2100 29 December 2020 13: 54
                +1
                No. Take the coat of arms of austro-hungary, russian, byzantine symbol.
                All eagles are looking in opposite directions, i.e. the interests of these empires are in the west and in the east.
                Or do you have a different opinion?
                1. Undecim
                  Undecim 29 December 2020 14: 48
                  +5
                  In those days, when the two-headed eagle appeared on the coat of arms of the Moscow principality, no one thought about the empire.
                  1. ee2100
                    ee2100 29 December 2020 14: 50
                    +1
                    And who considered himself the heir of Byzantium?
                    1. Undecim
                      Undecim 29 December 2020 14: 56
                      +5
                      It turns out that you not only do not know the history of the appearance of the Palaeologus coat of arms in Russia, but also the issue of "Byzantine inheritance".
                      1. ee2100
                        ee2100 29 December 2020 15: 08
                        +1
                        Do you think that Sophia just appeared in Moscow?
                      2. Undecim
                        Undecim 29 December 2020 15: 49
                        +6
                        Of course, not just like that. The Pope hoped to involve the Moscow principality in the fight against the Turks, Ivan III - to strengthen his power.
                      3. ee2100
                        ee2100 29 December 2020 15: 57
                        0
                        This sounds like a toast!
                      4. Undecim
                        Undecim 29 December 2020 16: 02
                        +5
                        You can take it as you like, however, there was no answer to the question of how you determine the orientation of the elements of the coat of arms relative to the cardinal points.
                      5. ee2100
                        ee2100 29 December 2020 18: 06
                        -1
                        Answered above to Shpakovsky
  • kalibr
    29 December 2020 12: 22
    +3
    No way! There is a "left hand rule".
    1. depressant
      depressant 29 December 2020 17: 55
      +5
      My God! And why argue something? Do you know how the teacher speaks in kindergarten? "Children, let's take a pencil in our right hand!" And she, showing, takes to the left - the mirror perception in children. Realizing that she takes the pencil not in her right, but in her left hand, in kindergarten I survived only 2 days and ran away. To eliminate cognitive dissonance and not get hung up. But at school I was caught being left-handed and retrained by force, creating problems for the rest of my life. crying wassat )))
      1. Mordvin 3
        Mordvin 3 29 December 2020 21: 38
        0
        Quote: depressant
        creating problems for the rest of your life

        And what kind of problems?
        1. depressant
          depressant 29 December 2020 22: 55
          0
          Colleague Mordvin 3, the cerebral hemispheres work differently in left-handed and right-handed people)))
          1. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 29 December 2020 23: 23
            0
            Quote: depressant
            Colleague Mordvin 3, the cerebral hemispheres work differently in left-handed and right-handed

            I know. But I don’t understand about the problems.
      2. Korsar4
        Korsar4 29 December 2020 22: 33
        +3
        Was it harder to escape from school?
        1. depressant
          depressant 29 December 2020 23: 05
          +3
          I hardly walked like that. I packed up, packed my portfolio and, reaching the library, which was located along the way, stayed in it and read voraciously books and magazines until the lessons ended. The librarians were busy with their problems, often left, and I was like a watchman instead. But this is already starting from the third grade. And in the first, I quietly learned to hate coercion. My parents had big problems with school. But they wisely did not pass them on to me. I went to the test. I finished school anyway with a medal.
          1. Korsar4
            Korsar4 30 December 2020 04: 35
            +2
            I respect. I always believed that there is self-education and everything else.
            But, unfortunately, such an approach could affect later life.

            Did your parents accept this attitude towards school?
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 29 December 2020 11: 14
    +7
    It was accepted that the coat of arms of the father was partially included in the coat of arms of the children. The coat of arms of the first son contained the image of a "bridge" or "aqueduct" (aka lambel - tournament collar), the second son - a crescent with horns up, the third - a five-pointed star, and so on: a dove, two circles, a lily, a marshmallow flower ...

    I will add that such elements in heraldry are called brizours.
    Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich!
    1. depressant
      depressant 29 December 2020 13: 00
      +6
      Good afternoon, Anton! )))
      This is only in England. The Scots by kinks and lines indicated inheritance. And, say, the Poles, uniting into clans, could use one common coat of arms, and there were no breezes! Therefore, they still, whoever you take, are the descendants of Polish kings and no less))) And the Portuguese chose as they wanted - the coat of arms, even on the paternal side, even on the maternal side, their breezes served to indicate which side they chose.
      1. kalibr
        29 December 2020 13: 34
        +4
        Quote: depressant
        This is only in England. The Scots by kinks and lines indicated inheritance. And, say, the Poles, uniting into clans, could use one common coat of arms, and there were no breezes! Therefore, they still, whoever you take, are the descendants of Polish kings and no less))) And the Portuguese chose as they wanted - the coat of arms, even on the paternal side, even on the maternal side, their breezes served to indicate which side they chose.

        How well you know!
      2. kalibr
        29 December 2020 13: 36
        +3
        Quote: depressant
        And, say, the Poles, uniting into clans, could use one common coat of arms, and there were no breezes! Therefore, they are still, whoever you take, the descendants of Polish kings and no less

        But this is not entirely true. Not everyone!
        1. depressant
          depressant 29 December 2020 13: 57
          +3
          Well, this is where my information ends))) Maybe one of the Poles will clarify the issue, eh? )))
      3. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 29 December 2020 14: 20
        +5
        My respect, Lyudmila Yakovlevna!
        You are partly right. However, I will note that the formation and development of heraldry fell on those times when other duchies were more kingdoms. Brizury is the traditional name for the elements indicated in the passage of the article.
        1. kalibr
          29 December 2020 15: 20
          +4
          Quote: 3x3zsave
          Brizury is the traditional name for the elements indicated in the passage of the article.

          ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++
    2. Pane Kohanku
      Pane Kohanku 29 December 2020 16: 43
      +4
      I will add that such elements in heraldry are called brizours.

      I understood only one thing - the devil himself will break his leg in heraldry! request
      So, I told you, I was distorted on Sunday, I went yesterday - I swallowed a crowbar. By the way, the last time this happened was on November 10, 2018. what

      Anton, why did I post it! Pay attention to the picture in the upper left. Doesn't it remind you of the Olenins' estate? wink drinks
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 29 December 2020 17: 09
        +3
        With the same success it can be Rozhdestveno, and Siversky, and what else.
        1. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 29 December 2020 17: 21
          +3
          With the same success it can be Rozhdestveno, and Siversky, and what else.

          Well bliiin ... I thought there was a romance in Priyutino, but you just took it like that and killed me with your shameless cynical realism! recourse
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 29 December 2020 17: 29
            +4
            Uh-huh. You also tell me that looking at the above photo, you thought about the exalted feelings of N. Gnedich for Anna Furman.
            1. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku 29 December 2020 17: 38
              +4
              you thought about the lofty feelings of N. Gnedich for Anna Furman.

              No, about the lofty feelings of V.I. Chapaev to D. Furmanov. He was sometimes ready to strangle him. laughing
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 29 December 2020 17: 51
                +3
                Was he jealous of Petka?
                You might think you know something about A. Furman.
                1. Pane Kohanku
                  Pane Kohanku 29 December 2020 17: 55
                  +3
                  Was he jealous of Petka?

                  No, the commissar was grinding too much and with clever tongue. Furmanov, by the way, in the book also put a couple of pins about the mustachioed commander in - they say, "I have not completely got rid of partisanism."
                2. Pane Kohanku
                  Pane Kohanku 29 December 2020 18: 12
                  +3
                  You might think you know something about A. Furman.

                  You didn't tell me how I should know! crying You hide everything in yourself, but here I am - I am an ignoramus, by the way! request
                  But we put up a Christmas tree. And we have already tested one ball - for a ride! wink drinks
                  1. 3x3zsave
                    3x3zsave 29 December 2020 18: 20
                    +3
                    I hope the cat is not injured?
                    1. Pane Kohanku
                      Pane Kohanku 29 December 2020 18: 22
                      +2
                      I hope the cat is not injured?

                      No! Gently knocked down one ball, then rolled it on the floor for a long time. A whole lot of fun! yes
              2. depressant
                depressant 29 December 2020 17: 59
                +6
                Hmmm ... And I thought that there were female centaurs in the pictures. Didn't hurt anyone, didn't you? )))
                1. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 29 December 2020 18: 03
                  +4
                  You are absolutely right! There, on the "groats", there is an extensive place for branding.
                2. Pane Kohanku
                  Pane Kohanku 29 December 2020 18: 06
                  +4
                  And I thought that the pictures were female centaurs. Didn't hurt anyone, didn't you?

                  Nooo, not at all, Lyudmila Yakovlevna! love In principle, you absolutely correctly called things by their proper names ... hi Just now, their hind legs grow into the butt inward as a rudiment. fellow
                  Colleagues, to be honest - this is, hmm .. I would not say .. what is beautiful. No. And there is already a whole generation of such people ... like a hole in it ... My opinion! soldier
      2. Catfish
        Catfish 29 December 2020 18: 13
        +5
        Does it remind you of ......?


        I would tell you what it reminds me of. laughing
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 29 December 2020 18: 15
          +4
          Well, I would say ...
          1. Pane Kohanku
            Pane Kohanku 29 December 2020 18: 18
            +6
            Well, I would say ...

            You and I both know what he has to say. laughing Uncle Kostya is such an entertainer! lol drinks
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 29 December 2020 18: 35
              +4
              Yeah, you also tell the entertainer, like this one.
            2. Mordvin 3
              Mordvin 3 29 December 2020 21: 46
              +3
              Did he come to the Impressionist exhibition?
              1. Pane Kohanku
                Pane Kohanku 30 December 2020 11: 33
                +1
                Did he come to the Impressionist exhibition?

                As far as I remember, at the exhibition of the Impressionists, he called them gay men. laughing No, in this photo, it seems, he is in France with a lumberjack's ax. drinks Although not exactly.
          2. Catfish
            Catfish 29 December 2020 18: 26
            +4
            Air shaking in vain will not change anything, a doctor-proctologist is needed here.
            1. depressant
              depressant 29 December 2020 21: 20
              +3
              Well, here ... The conversation ended on such an optimistic note. wassat )))
              1. Catfish
                Catfish 29 December 2020 21: 53
                +3
                Tomorrow we will continue, otherwise today Mykola has gone somewhere and does not answer. But I'll try to find something more optimistic. To close the topic of "centaurs" in the spring forest. wink

                In my opinion, this is from the same opera - neither fish nor meat, only overboard. laughing
            2. ee2100
              ee2100 29 December 2020 23: 27
              +3
              Three doctors left the hospital after work, go home and on the way to the temple. The prokologist says: "I'll go and light a candle for God." And he went, and the psychiatrist followed: "This is megalomania."
      3. Korsar4
        Korsar4 30 December 2020 07: 09
        +2
        Not a bad way to learn architecture. But I'm not sure: for a school, or for a university?
  • motorized rifle
    motorized rifle 29 December 2020 22: 17
    +4
    Here it is! Delicious and pleasant to read! Thank you!
  • Fat
    Fat 30 December 2020 04: 38
    +4
    Vyacheslav Olegovich, special thanks for the epigraph. Translation is a difficult thing, the more poems in an authentic form.
    well it's all for me grog, me jolly jolly grog,
    It's all for me beer and tobacco.
    For I spent all me tin on the lassies drinking gin,
    Far across the western ocean I must wander.

    Oh, I spent it all alone, on girls drinking gin
    And now I have to go overseas ...
    All for my grog, merry, sweet grog!
    All for tobacco and beer ...
    Song of 18th century British sailors.
    Happy New Year.
    1. Korsar4
      Korsar4 30 December 2020 07: 12
      +3
      "Beware of the one who in the morning
      It rises without songs ”(c).
      1. Fat
        Fat 30 December 2020 12: 55
        +2
        Greetings, Sergey hi
        The alcoholic's sleep is both brief and disturbing. Terrible visions from every corner. And he takes out his sword from its scabbard- To fight off, to reach until morning. He draws a circle - he cannot enter here. Neither a ghoul, nor a witch, nor a damn thing. And only a glass will help him now- He drinks, and suddenly he is brave and proud. He becomes, and straightens his back, Throws himself with a sword at the enemies - A ray of dawn suddenly illuminates the battle - No sword, there is an elastic band from cowards ...(c) Gleb Kalinin
        negative
        1. Korsar4
          Korsar4 30 December 2020 15: 04
          +1
          Greetings, Andrey Borisovich!

          "Like a blushing tragic actor,
          waving a cardboard sword "(c)
          1. Fat
            Fat 30 December 2020 15: 23
            +1
            "I wake up at the alarm
            and go to the refrigerator
            I open the white door ...
            ..........
            Guess what will happen now "(c) wassat
            1. Korsar4
              Korsar4 30 December 2020 18: 21
              +1
              “And there is winter,
              Desert winter "(c).
              1. Fat
                Fat 30 December 2020 20: 35
                +2
                "And gilding flies around from an unexpected dream come true.
                And the joy of my flight is overshadowed by thoughts.
                ................
                The owls cackled gloomily, the distance darkened,
                An adder-sadness has crawled into my brain convolutions. "(C)
                1. Korsar4
                  Korsar4 30 December 2020 21: 12
                  +1
                  “Rash, harmonica! Boredom. Boredom.
                  The accordion player pours his fingers in a wave "(c).
                  1. Fat
                    Fat 30 December 2020 21: 23
                    +1
                    The dog guarded the gladioli, happiness loomed ahead of her.
                    And the wind on the dog stroked his hair and said: Look into the distance with hope!
                    But the hail began, the gladioli were crumpled (their quality was reduced)
                    The dog howled in an abnormal voice and died

                    (C) crying
                    1. Korsar4
                      Korsar4 30 December 2020 21: 52
                      0
                      "How good, how fresh the roses were" (c).
                      1. Fat
                        Fat 30 December 2020 22: 01
                        +1
                        "Today on the northern slope of the ravine,
                        .....
                        The long-awaited flower has blossomed.
                        He stands over the snow, over the dead grass,
                        Drunk from the light and air.
                        In the morning over his troubled head
                        Spring fog swirls.
                        ...... he's only one in the snow.
                        He is not waiting for me, he is waiting for his brothers -
                        I cannot rip it off. "(C)
                      2. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 30 December 2020 22: 23
                        0
                        Thanks for The Late Shooter.

                        “Every day on the slope I
                        I am lost, dear friend "(c).
                      3. Fat
                        Fat 30 December 2020 22: 38
                        +1
                        Heh, heh, Sergei, you can't press me on the "soul"!
                        Check it out:
                        "Despite all efforts, I am not rolling, but falling.
                        Not wheels here, but wings Postmen need! "(C)
                        And there is no need to quote Vadim Shefner (in theory) From the depths comes ...
                        Summary: "swears beautifully"
                        Who would have taken it and translated from the "arrow" from 1960 to 2020 .. request
                      4. Fat
                        Fat 30 December 2020 22: 42
                        0
                        Oh yes! "Man with 5" not "" Much more fun yes
                        "Sincerely yours. Vasya from Mars." Uh-huh lol
                      5. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 30 December 2020 22: 54
                        +1
                        I don't even try.
                        Before the conversation started - I only heard the first and last name. And that's all.

                        “Give us wings, give us wings.
                        The wings of your spirit ”(c).
                      6. Fat
                        Fat 31 December 2020 01: 41
                        0
                        Would you say something like that to wrap your fur coat?
                        Seryoga! I need to think ...
                2. Fat
                  Fat 30 December 2020 22: 26
                  +1
                  But it is interesting how snowdrops were displayed in heraldry (I ask pathologists not to worry, we are talking about botany) How did forget-me-nots affect heraldry?
                  And other floriculture. How unforgettably answered my question "Cho, friend, are you doing?"
                  replied: "Nothing! looking, looking!"
                3. Korsar4
                  Korsar4 30 December 2020 22: 56
                  +1
                  I know that in the modern version of the coat of arms of Leonid Kolesnikov, of course, lilac.

                  And why coats of arms, when there is "Beauty of Moscow" and much more.
                4. Fat
                  Fat 30 December 2020 23: 06
                  0
                  Mares of the Centaurs? wassat
                5. Korsar4
                  Korsar4 30 December 2020 23: 18
                  0
                  No. Sorts "Maresyev", "Gastello", "Olympiada Kolesnikova", "Leonid Leonov" and many others.
                6. Fat
                  Fat 30 December 2020 23: 59
                  0
                  1. I honestly, as an urban landowner, hate agriculture! except for dill in spring repeat
                  Check it out, Sergei, What V. Shefner gave out at 60-70 ...
                  Shepherd Methodich! Milkmaid Masha!
                  I am happy with you sincere friendship!
                  Let's raise the bowls for the spring ones,
                  For a complete superphosphate!
                  Let's sing and dance! Evan! Evoe!
                  In ecstasy we will drink the whole artel
                  For all harvesters, for all milk yield,
                  For the egg production of native geese
                  ! (with)
                  YO!
                  It is hewn as a parody. on ...
                7. Fat
                  Fat 31 December 2020 00: 14
                  0
                  Sergey, there is no time to look ...
                  EMNIP. Shefner argued with one smart lady ...
                  "I will go green into the forest, I will stand under the crown ...
                  I will choose a strong, high-quality bitch "(c)
                  If you wish, I will continue to reproduce ...
                  Cool guy author, even though he's a communist ...
                  Lady = Mrs. Lokhvitskaya
                8. Korsar4
                  Korsar4 31 December 2020 06: 08
                  0
                  "The habit of Lorigan
                  And roses "(c).
          2. Fat
            Fat 31 December 2020 00: 30
            0
            Quote: Korsar4
            the modern version of the coat of arms of Leonid Kolesnikov, of course, is lilac.

            Mm-dyam. And what? Who is LK,
          3. Fat
            Fat 31 December 2020 01: 47
            0
            Lokhvitskaya? Husband, brother, lover?
          4. Korsar4
            Korsar4 31 December 2020 06: 06
            0
            A worthy person. Interesting biography. Front-line soldier. Brought, according to various estimates, from 100 to 300 amazing varieties of lilacs. His Lilac Garden has become a legend.
          5. Fat
            Fat 31 December 2020 08: 39
            +1
            Sergei, I'll look ... honestly! Lilac garden. very interesting. Let's figure it out. Thank you. hi
          6. Korsar4
            Korsar4 31 December 2020 08: 41
            +1
            Take a look. This deserves attention.