Military Review

"Only a support tank will come out of it": Czech expert on the future of the T-72

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"Only a support tank will come out of it": Czech expert on the future of the T-72

T-72, one of the most massive tanks in the world, forms the basis of the tank fleet of a number of countries. Its possible future against the background of the modern development of armored vehicles tried to assess the Czech edition of CZDefence:


The T-72 is one of the greatest examples of military equipment [...] It is surprising how vital this tank is until now, half a century after its creation. The T-72 is a living structure that is constantly being improved.

- writes the Czech military expert David Hall.

"T-72 will never become MBT"


As stated, during its service, the T-72 has been sharply criticized more than once. After the war in the Persian Gulf, in which thousands of machines of this type took part, they did not really show themselves, they even began to be called "death tanks".

This designation, of course, is completely wrong, as are the opposite views, which only extol the T-72 [...] Any weapon system has its pros and cons

- writes CZDefence, pointing out that the advantages of the T-72 include its simplicity and reliability, and the disadvantages - "the very concept borrowed from the T-64 tank, which was followed by other Soviet tanks."

This refers to the introduction of an automatic loader, which made it possible to reduce the crew, but led to an unsuccessful placement of ammunition [possibly, we are talking about the risk of ammunition detonation]. Among other "ailments", the T-72 has less powerful observation devices, an outdated fire control system, etc.

They are trying to eliminate these shortcomings in the process of modernization, equipping the tank with new MSA, engines, additional armor. The ultimate goal of these improvements, as explained on the pages of CZDefence, is to bring the T-72 closer to Western designs, the so-called "main battle tanks".

These attempts were ultimately unsuccessful. The T-72 will never be a full-fledged MBT; it was and will remain a typical medium tank. But the question is, shouldn't you use this factor?

- the author asks.



"Only a support tank will come out of it"


According to him, medium tanks are currently experiencing a renaissance. Completely new designs are being created, such as the Turkish-Indonesian MMWT, the Chinese VT-5 and the American MPF, "and beyond them the future for decades to come." Their main task is not to fight enemy tanks, but to provide fire support. The listed models have a mass similar to the T-72, but have a smaller caliber - a 105-mm cannon, whose roots go back to the British L-7 gun, instead of the 125-mm 2A46.

However, despite the larger caliber, the 2A46 is less suitable for the needs of fire support [...] The L-7 gun [and its modern modifications] is much better suited for this task

- says Hall, pointing out that due to the installation of 105-mm caliber, it is possible to transform the T-72 into a modern medium tank, performing mainly fire support tasks.

In his words, to create a full-fledged modern medium tank based on the T-72, it will be necessary to dismantle or modify the automatic loader, install a new simple and cheap MSA and light additional armor.

Such a medium tank could be of interest to many developing countries. Therefore, it is worth taking this opportunity

Hall concludes.

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  1. Alexey Sommer
    Alexey Sommer 20 December 2020 15: 35
    +30
    Czechs brew beer well.
    And when did they begin to understand the tanks?
    This Iksperd is a complete layman in tanks.
    Starting from the thesis about the caliber of the gun and ending with a comparison with Indian tanks, for example, for which, in the opinion of this analyst, the full future.)))
    The joker can?
    1. Hunter 2
      Hunter 2 20 December 2020 15: 39
      +14
      The exPerds from Honduras and the Amazonian Pygmies have not yet registered !!! laughing So wait with criticism ...
      A masterpiece thesis on the transition to a 105mm gun belay I missed, Russia is going to join NATO ???
      1. Alexey Sommer
        Alexey Sommer 20 December 2020 15: 47
        +11
        Quote: Hunter 2
        And the masterpiece thesis about the transition to the 105mm gun I missed, Russia was going to join NATO ???

        So even in NATO 120 now seems to be the main thing.
        105 it was under the king of peas.
        I think he is fond of beer. drinks
        1. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 20 December 2020 17: 47
          +1
          120 mm (or 125 in the USSR) were made for a single purpose: to penetrate the frontal armor of an enemy tank in a tank-against-tank oncoming battle.
          This caliber is redundant to support the infantry.
          1. Doliva63
            Doliva63 20 December 2020 19: 23
            +11
            Quote: voyaka uh
            120 mm (or 125 in the USSR) were made for a single purpose: to penetrate the frontal armor of an enemy tank in a tank-against-tank oncoming battle.
            This caliber is redundant to support the infantry.

            Well, that is, the 122 mm howitzer is not redundant to support the infantry (at the same time, it is fairly behind), and the 125 mm tank (which is also on the front edge) is redundant? What are you drinking / smoking there, it's already enviable! And yes, the Israeli "combat experience" is of interest only to Israel. I am in terms of the military. Fighters against terror are another matter.
            1. Saxahorse
              Saxahorse 20 December 2020 21: 30
              +3
              The man said a perfectly sensible idea. The support tank needs a cheap HE shell. And the feathered projectile of a smoothbore cannon cannot be cheap by definition.
              1. Cottodraton
                Cottodraton 21 December 2020 05: 08
                +5
                A tank land mine does not have any exorbitant price, especially since production has long been established and worked out. Plus, it's much more efficient. I do not see anything "redundant" in it.
              2. Evil Booth
                Evil Booth 23 December 2020 20: 33
                0
                Oga and the mask does not delay the virus but the Ministry of Health and the USSR Ministry of Health, alas, did not listen to you 60 years ago. so just what would you know
              3. The comment was deleted.
            2. voyaka uh
              voyaka uh 20 December 2020 21: 32
              +6
              "Yes, the Israeli" combat experience "is interesting only to Israel. I am in terms of the military." ///
              ----
              Israeli combat experience is of interest to anyone who wants to learn modern
              methods of war. For this reason, people come to Israel for special seminars
              every year officers of many European (and not only) countries.
              ----
              As for the calibers, do not confuse howitzers work with support tanks.
              infantry.
              They have different tasks.
              At the infantry support tank - purposefully destroy enemy firing points.
              For this, a caliber of 105 mm is sufficient.
              For howitzers, destroy entire zones on the front line of the enemy, or
              in his rear. The caliber of 155 mm is considered optimal here.
              Always happy to clarify drinks
              1. Alf
                Alf 21 December 2020 19: 05
                +2
                Quote: voyaka uh
                At the infantry support tank - purposefully destroy enemy firing points.
                For this, a caliber of 105 mm is sufficient.

                So why on the Chariot quickly abandoned the 105-mm, jumping 120? Enough, isn't it?
                1. voyaka uh
                  voyaka uh 21 December 2020 19: 48
                  0
                  When the frontal armor was increased on Soviet tanks. The cumulative projectile of the 105 mm L-7 cannon could no longer penetrate it. I had to put 120 smooth-bore under OBPS.
                  But it turned out that the last tank-against-tank battles were in 1982.
                  Who could have known that the Arabs would abandon massive attacks by armies on Israel?
                  Since then: only infantry support. For which 105 mm would do just fine. And the ammunition capacity of the tank would increase by one and a half times.
                  1. Alf
                    Alf 21 December 2020 20: 11
                    +3
                    Quote: voyaka uh
                    Who could have known that the Arabs would abandon massive attacks by armies on Israel?

                    But the Israeli military is smarter (Jews, after all), because they do not know what kind of enemy can stand up against the Promised Land tomorrow, and making a separate tank to fight the infantry and a separate one against tanks is a very unaffordable luxury.
                    1. voyaka uh
                      voyaka uh 21 December 2020 20: 37
                      -1
                      That's right ... But the trend is still to reduce the number of Merkava tanks.
                      And the production of wheeled BMP Eitan began. Which I guess
                      will not transport infantry (TBTR Namer will carry it), and
                      will serve as a light support tank.
                      1. Alf
                        Alf 21 December 2020 20: 50
                        +2
                        Quote: voyaka uh
                        And the production of wheeled BMP Eitan began. Which, ..., and
                        will serve as a light support tank.

                        How is this Eitan armored? Such a tank should go alongside the infantry.
                      2. voyaka uh
                        voyaka uh 21 December 2020 21: 16
                        +1
                        He has more hope for KAZ than for passive armor.
                        Merkava and Namer are hung with metal-ceramic panels.
                        Which give good all-round and top protection against RPGs,
                        but they can hardly cope with ATGMs with a diameter of 150 mm and above.
                        Complements the protection of KAZ Trophy. But the weight of the machines reaches 60 tons.
                        Eitan weighs half. Consequently, the armor is less.
                      3. Alf
                        Alf 21 December 2020 21: 24
                        +1
                        Quote: voyaka uh
                        Consequently, the armor is less.

                        I believe that a vehicle designed to support infantry for fighting in the city, and fighting in recent years is increasingly being prescribed in cities, because it is stupid to fight for the plain, it should have at least the armor of the main tank, and wheeled vehicles, with all their power of such protection can not have, in principle, because 8-9 tons per axle is the limit.
                      4. voyaka uh
                        voyaka uh 21 December 2020 22: 30
                        +1
                        I thought so too ... until recently.
                        But in recent years, the damned drones have all turned to no one knows where. recourse And how to hide
                        (or defend) armored vehicles is not very clear, because no one has adequate field air defense. The battlefield is changing.
                      5. Alf
                        Alf 23 December 2020 19: 37
                        +1
                        Quote: voyaka uh
                        I thought so too ... until recently.
                        But in recent years, the damned drones have all turned to no one knows where. recourse And how to hide
                        (or defend) armored vehicles is not very clear, because no one has adequate field air defense. The battlefield is changing.

                        Tanks have been declared obsolete since the 50s, but no replacement has been invented for them ...
                      6. voyaka uh
                        voyaka uh 23 December 2020 23: 25
                        0
                        It's right. Tanks will not disappear, although there will be fewer of them.
                        But to protect them from air threats will have to be much
                        more serious than now. Otherwise, they will not reach the battlefield.
  • Alf
    Alf 20 December 2020 20: 47
    +2
    Quote: voyaka uh
    120 mm (or 125 in the USSR) were made for a single purpose: to penetrate the frontal armor of an enemy tank in a tank-against-tank oncoming battle.
    This caliber is redundant to support the infantry.

    Yes, yes, what stupid the Germans became, creating a new MGCS with a 130-mm cannon with the Franks. But the experience in creating first-class combat vehicles will be larger for the Hans than for the Czechs ...
    1. Alex777
      Alex777 21 December 2020 09: 41
      +1
      Until we began to scare them with Armat, they did not even think about 130 mm. hi
  • hydrox
    hydrox 21 December 2020 10: 06
    +3
    I believe that we will soon see the correctness of your thesis in action, when the S-60 acts as support for the infantry: here I agree with you - these are the characteristics that a tank support device should have (except that the caliber of a tank gun can be changed , which is either about 100, but with a higher initial speed) ...
  • nonsense
    nonsense 24 December 2020 13: 05
    0
    laughing it is redundant, of course, redundant, but as an entry ... sorry, the soul rejoices so much ... IMHO 22-28 OF 125 mm caliber shots in the automatic loader is enough to support the infantry in any battle. It is only necessary to provide structurally a convenient loading of this automatic loader - for example, move the fighting compartment to the stern and load the AZ directly from the ground. For armor-piercing shells - a separate rapid-fire drum AZ right in the rear niche of the turret ...
  • Proxima
    Proxima 20 December 2020 16: 41
    +7
    Quote: Hunter 2
    The exPerds from Honduras and the Amazonian Pygmies have not yet registered !!! laughing

    Every joke has its share of a joke. In this case, there is no place for a joke, everything is true! The above edition is nothing more than news agency, laughing it is not an authoritative military-technical journal. So do not offend the experts from Gondoras, they will be more authoritative! good drinks
  • boriz
    boriz 20 December 2020 15: 58
    +14
    "And when did they begin to understand the tanks?"
    We figured it out 85 years ago. And they made decent light tanks. But that time is gone forever.
    1. Alexey Sommer
      Alexey Sommer 20 December 2020 16: 02
      0
      Quote: boriz
      We figured it out 85 years ago.

      It was so.
      And we also brewed good beer 20 years ago.
      Zhigulevskoe for example.
      Now there is only Yupi disguised as beer.
      And we are making tanks!
      But I also want good beer.
      1. KCA
        KCA 20 December 2020 18: 10
        +3
        Before the 2018 World Cup, Rospotrebnadzor checked dozens of varieties of beer, not a single one made from powder or other unconventional method was identified
      2. Alf
        Alf 20 December 2020 20: 49
        +1
        Quote: Alexey Sommer
        But I also want good beer.

        What problems ? Dimitrovgrad is very good.
      3. Eroma
        Eroma 21 December 2020 01: 26
        +1
        Do you offer to drive for beer on tanks? bully
        You should be careful with the pun then! hi
        Otherwise, create in the information space a new reason for "Russia's aggression!" laughing
        With the Baltics, everything is strained, everyone understands that no one needs it, but beer is a serious cause for concern drinks
      4. Cottodraton
        Cottodraton 21 December 2020 05: 11
        +1
        It is not the task of the state to brew beer. With this, contact a private manufacturer (which, here is a paradox, for some reason is all Dutch, despite the Cyrillic stickers).
        Yes, and 20 years ago, everyone was whining that our beer was bad ... I remember that myself
      5. alexey sidykin
        alexey sidykin 8 January 2021 17: 28
        0
        Yes, but foreigners like Germans and Czechs like our light.
    2. Alf
      Alf 20 December 2020 20: 48
      0
      Quote: boriz
      We figured it out 85 years ago. And they made decent light tanks.

      They just couldn't create something more serious ...
  • Bad_gr
    Bad_gr 20 December 2020 16: 05
    +2
    Quote: Alexey Sommer
    Czechs .....
    It is strange that the military experts of such military-developed states as the Vatican, Monaco, San Marino, Malta, Luxembourg have not yet expressed their opinion about the T-72.
    It would be interesting to read.
  • Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Kote Pan Kokhanka 20 December 2020 16: 06
    +9
    Quote: Alexey Sommer
    Czechs brew beer well.
    And when did they begin to understand the tanks?


    Alexey - Czechs in the tank club since the mid-20s of the last century. The German Pz-35 and Pz-38 of the Second World War are Czechoslovak cars, like the Hezer self-propelled gun made on their basis.
    After 1945, the Czechs produced T-34, T-55 and T-72 under license. Today they have lost these competences, but apparently they are probing the grounds for a possible entry into the market with a simplified T-72 as a medium tank. About this and the article.
    1. Alexey Sommer
      Alexey Sommer 20 December 2020 16: 11
      +1
      Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
      Alexey - Czechs in the tank club since the mid-20s of the last century. German Pz-35 and Pz-38 WWII

      Vladislav. hi
      I know it.
      However, despite the fact that I myself am not a designer from Nizhny Tagil, in this case, of course, the Czech iksperd is wrong.
      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 20 December 2020 16: 23
        +5
        This is a pure population idea. Maybe someone will bite.
        Key messages:
        Instead of 125mm cannon 105mm;
        Simplified LMS. Weaker armor.
        Just what Czech factories can produce on the basis of European technologies.
        1. 113262a
          113262a 20 December 2020 19: 54
          +1
          What? An even more simplified LMS than 72? Yes, the bourgeois with their solid-state gyroscopes and electric power drives already have such capabilities to improve the LMS! We have not dreamed yet! And the fact that at 72 is still worth laughing at the chickens! The same PDPS of eighties and 64-ki-space compared to the poverty of Tagil! Even in the 80s the difference was huge, but now, after Transmash and Kirov's plant were devoured, it is considered that 72 is the best!
    2. Boris Chernikov
      Boris Chernikov 20 December 2020 17: 07
      +2
      it is interesting to look at the country that, having stocks of 125 mm shells, decides to get rid of them and buy 105 mm beaters?
      1. Alf
        Alf 20 December 2020 20: 51
        +4
        Quote: Boris Chernikov
        it is interesting to look at the country that, having stocks of 125 mm shells, decides to get rid of them and buy 105 mm beaters?

        Ukraine. She's in NATO, however, with only one leg. So it stands, with its leg raised.
        1. Boris Chernikov
          Boris Chernikov 20 December 2020 22: 12
          +1
          I meant the country, not 404 laughing
          1. Alf
            Alf 20 December 2020 22: 15
            +3
            Quote: Boris Chernikov
            I meant the country, not 404 laughing

            It is truth too.
            1. Alf
              Alf 20 December 2020 23: 40
              +5
              Quote: Alf
              Quote: Boris Chernikov
              I meant the country, not 404 laughing

              It is truth too.

              Judging by the minuses handed over to us, it was a representative of this superpower who ran in.
    3. Evil Booth
      Evil Booth 23 December 2020 20: 35
      0
      and even they left him bully
  • Vladimir_2U
    Vladimir_2U 20 December 2020 16: 07
    +3
    Quote: Alexey Sommer
    And when they began to understand in tanks

    Well, the Czechs knew how to make armor, but this particular expert is so-so.
  • NKT
    NKT 20 December 2020 16: 08
    +4
    The Wehrmacht used their light tank with the designation 38 (t) in its units. And after the occupation of the Czech Republic they liked him so much that they increased the order. A total of about 1500 tanks
    1. Aerodrome
      Aerodrome 20 December 2020 16: 09
      -1
      "Only a support tank will come out of it": Czech expert about the future of the T-72
      Czech expert already sounds comical.
  • Constanty
    Constanty 20 December 2020 16: 11
    +7
    What is what, but Akurat Czech Republic - more precisely, Czechoslovakia has quite a long tradition in the production of tanks and armored vehicles.
    However, this particular expert is cold about the problem - precisely because it is now an academic problem for Czechs.
    However, in my opinion, he is wrong when he says
    These attempts were ultimately unsuccessful. T-72 will never be a full MBT


    And the Russian T-90M - in fact a derivative of the T-72, and even the T-72B3M - are now equal opponents for most of Russia's adversaries, including China and all of Europe.

    Moreover, with the T-72 it is possible to make a more perfect tank from the point of view of the concept - something like the T-72-120, Taki T-72 "Yatagan", without the "automatic loader" of ammunition in the hull, but it will be very expensive, and T-72B3M - In my opinion, the best of the existing upgrades of the T-72 is the optimal price / quality ratio.

    Perhaps the reason for the expert's conclusions was the case with the T-72M4CZ - an example of a missed modernization - very deep and expensive. However, it was forgotten that "the chain is as strong as its weakest link" - not only the "monkey" version of the T-72M was the starting point, but also the installation of an expensive fire control system
    without fixing the installation of the gun and the turret itself, it did not improve the accuracy of fire. ... Money in the sand
    1. farm2009
      farm2009 20 December 2020 16: 23
      -6
      And the Russian T-90M - in fact a derivative of the T-72, and even the T-72B3M - are now equal opponents for most of Russia's adversaries, including China and all of Europe.

      Well, yes, there is nowhere more even, you think they cannot hit enemy modern tanks head-on, but they can.
      1. Constanty
        Constanty 20 December 2020 16: 31
        +5
        From what I read, the 3BM59 and 3BM60 ammunition has quite good parameters - it is not the tank's fault that they are loaded with a maximum of Mango or Lekalo. And China, and, on the other hand, Ukraine, Poland, Italy, France and even, to a large extent, Germany have nothing to withstand "Lead" at a distance of 800-1200 meters - typical distances in the European theater of operations.
        Moreover, during tests with the Americans, even the Polish PT-91 based on the T-72M1 with the Polish Erava reactive armor was not pierced by 120-mm
        cannon Abrams M1A2. And 20 years have passed since then. The Russian upgrade is based on a more modern and better armored version, the T-72B, and yet the Relikt, as far as I know, is quite effective even against the APFSDS.
        1. Evil Booth
          Evil Booth 23 December 2020 20: 36
          0
          old shells quite officially pierced 650, Abrams with such a hull forehead, a maximum of 1000, and these 650 there are on the floor, and that's all ... while for each tank on each kilometer there are a lot of pturs on both sides
  • Dkuznecov
    Dkuznecov 20 December 2020 16: 28
    +8
    At the end of the 30s, Czechoslovakia was the second largest producer of
    tanks in the world after Britain.
    warspot.ru/7612-chehoslovatskoe-tankostroenie-pervye-shagi
    A Czech tank is installed at the entrance to Volokolamsk,
    found in the swamp.
    Rollers spin at the touch of a finger
    I personally rented the roller - white grease inside.
    Czechoslovakia is Europe's "weapon", you just don't know.
    So they have a right to their own opinion.
    1. KCA
      KCA 20 December 2020 18: 16
      +1
      Was the tank installed straight from the swamp, or was it a little, at least, cleaned of dirt and rust? Well, at the same time they put in the lubricant. Is he on a pedestal? How was he dragged on with rusted rollers?
      1. Dkuznecov
        Dkuznecov 20 December 2020 19: 07
        +2
        I don’t know. Maybe the rinks really missed again
        I think it was not difficult to drag in the wedge.
        She is not big.

        Sorry, I put my shadow on the fence.
        This is not a Pz.Kpfw. 38 (t), but a StuG III Ausf C / D with a short little fuzz.
        I climbed it (tanchik) 30 (thirty) years ago,
        when I was fixing my motorcycle on a deserted site near the monument.
        Then the Internet was not in sight.
        Someone blurted out that it was a Czech dance.
        1. Alf
          Alf 20 December 2020 20: 55
          +1
          Quote: DKuznecov
          Someone blurted out that it was a Czech dance.

          Apparently the same one with the AK-47 copy of the Sturmgever.
          1. Dkuznecov
            Dkuznecov 21 December 2020 00: 10
            +1
            Any weapon, I emphasize, is someone's copy.
            It's human nature to own someone else's technology and improve
            her. The fraternal people of China will not let you lie.
            Well, we can read "Fight for Fire".

            I guess only cobblestones under it
            the definition does not fit.
            Although, if you think about it ...
            1. Alf
              Alf 21 December 2020 19: 02
              +1
              Quote: DKuznecov
              It's human nature to own someone else's technology and improve
              her.

              Who can argue? Mikhail Timofeevich SG-44 took it, "slightly" improved it, completely and completely remade it, and created a Masterpiece.
              Isn't it funny yourself?
              Quote: DKuznecov
              Any weapon, I emphasize, is someone's copy.

              And whose copy is SVT? And the I-16? And what about the ZIS-2? Still to list?
              1. Dkuznecov
                Dkuznecov 22 December 2020 21: 57
                0
                I will answer you as a programmer with 20 years of experience.

                Everything in this world is a copy of something.
                Everything. Except for the creator, of course.
                Although I suspect he has up to our world
                there were alpha and beta releases.
                We just don't know about it.

                It is human nature to compile,
                as part of a creator god.
                Personally, I do not hesitate to use the ideas of others.

                And there is nothing shameful in SVT (Featured in "Until Dawn"
                as the reason for the failure of the reconnaissance group,
                jumping off the fuse when crossing the front),
                I-16 (detailed in the "Baltic Sky" in parallel with the Harikkeins),
                ZIS-2 (The products of Hotchkiss, the flagship in artillery, have been closely studied).

                All technologies develop in a spiral,
                with a quantum leap at every level.
                And thank God.
                And most importantly, I don't understand
                why in the "smoking room" - Topvar forum,
                where even a first grader has the right to speak,
                Are you so anxious?
                1. Alf
                  Alf 23 December 2020 19: 35
                  0
                  Quote: DKuznecov
                  And most importantly, I don't understand
                  why in the "smoking room" - Topvar forum,
                  where even a first grader has the right to speak,
                  Are you so anxious?

                  You are right, if a first-grader speaks, then I refuse further conversation with you.
                2. Alf
                  Alf 23 December 2020 19: 49
                  0
                  You have not answered the direct question, whose copies of the I-16, SVT-38 and ZIS-2?
                  1. Dkuznecov
                    Dkuznecov 23 December 2020 22: 00
                    0
                    (yawning) did not penetrate. Maybe a miracle happened, of course
                    in relation to the I-16. How Mendelev dreamed of the table.
                    But ...
                    But he (I-16) was preceded by 14 (fourteen) combat
                    aircraft created by Polikarpov for 10 years.
                    It was Polikarpov who stood at the origins of Soviet aircraft construction,
                    which means that competitors' technologies were simply obliged to study.
                    Until he was imprisoned.
                    The SVT 40 shotgun was preceded by the SVT-38, and her - the PPT.
                    For the ZIS-2, the number also speaks of its predecessors.
                    I don't believe in hitting the top ten the first time
                    and without regard to other people's experience.
                    I believe that only fools learn from their mistakes
                    and the smart ones - on the mistakes of others.
                    In fact, in the Stalin era, industrial espionage
                    was an ordinary thing, as he saved foreign currency.
                    Thank you for attention.
                    1. Alf
                      Alf 23 December 2020 22: 23
                      +1
                      Quote: DKuznecov
                      In fact, in the Stalin era, industrial espionage
                      was an ordinary thing,

                      Industrial espionage was common in every era.
                      Quote: DKuznecov
                      competitors' technologies simply had to study.

                      "Studying" and "copying" are completely different things.
                      Quote: DKuznecov
                      The SVT 40 shotgun was preceded by the SVT-38, and her - the PPT.

                      And what does this confirm? Did you copy it yourself?
                      Quote: DKuznecov
                      For the ZIS-2, the number also speaks of its predecessors.

                      She had no predecessors, everything was done from scratch.

                      Quote: DKuznecov
                      and without regard to other people's experience.

                      Not blind copying, but learning. This is a fundamental difference.
                      The fact that you are a programmer with 20 years of service does you credit. Try now to become a professional in history and technology and you will not make such statements again.
                    2. Dkuznecov
                      Dkuznecov 24 December 2020 18: 32
                      0
                      (smiling)

                      I am not a programmer.
                      Programming for me
                      (with product certification of course)
                      only a tool to achieve the goal.
                      And the ability to not allow to enter
                      "programmers" misled me.

                      I have enough "programmers", but
                      this is the lowest stage of evolution in my sphere
                      activities.

                      One day, due to one wrong letter in the algorithm, an American satellite,
                      after working a lot of time in orbit, he went into a dead rejection.
                      The program hung. This is how mistakes can end
                      programmers, the same story with Boeing software optimization,
                      when two planes dove into the ocean.

                      I'm glad for the ZIS-2 if Grabin came up with it from scratch.
                      I am generally proud of my country.
                      The main thing is that Churchill's phrase should be
                      just a joke (approximately, of course):

                      "You Russians are a heroic people.
                      You emerge victorious from unthinkable troubles,
                      into which you drive yourself ".

                      In general, all feats arise from betrayal.

                      Thank you for your attention, and with Retreat!
    2. alexey sidykin
      alexey sidykin 8 January 2021 17: 33
      0
      Even our 34 is pulled out of the swamp and the rollers are spinning. There are videos
  • Alf
    Alf 20 December 2020 20: 53
    +1
    Quote: DKuznecov
    So they have a right to their own opinion.

    They have the right, but they cannot create something similar.
  • bar
    bar 20 December 2020 16: 29
    +2
    Czechs brew beer well.
    And when did they begin to understand the tanks?

    It's been a while. Skoda factories at one time did a great job for the benefit of the Third Reich. And the Czech Pz. 35 were considered cooler than the German Pz.III.
    1. Bad_gr
      Bad_gr 20 December 2020 17: 12
      +2
      Quote: bar
      Skoda factories at one time did a great job for the benefit of the Third Reich.

      History repeats itself: "..... After the privatization in 1991, Škoda Auto was gradually taken over by the German concern Volkswagen Group, ...."
  • Boris Chernikov
    Boris Chernikov 20 December 2020 17: 05
    -1
    here it is .. I wonder why a 105 mm cannon is better than a 125 cannon in terms of "fire support" .. provided that the fire support relies on OFSs
    1. Alf
      Alf 20 December 2020 20: 56
      +1
      Quote: Boris Chernikov
      here it is .. I wonder why a 105 mm cannon is better than a 125 cannon in terms of "fire support" .. provided that the fire support relies on OFSs

      So 105 is a NATO standard, and 125 is a product of the sworn Bolsheviks.
  • Evil Booth
    Evil Booth 23 December 2020 20: 34
    0
    he will write about Abrams, no one will find it.
  • wlkw
    wlkw 28 December 2020 14: 30
    0
    Yes, no, probably the beer was drunk, they have good, so it carried ... on the tanks.
  • Sergey Ottovich
    Sergey Ottovich 28 December 2020 16: 05
    0
    Quote: Alexey Sommer
    Czechs brew beer well.
    And when did they begin to understand the tanks?
    About a hundred years ago.
  • mark1
    mark1 20 December 2020 15: 40
    +9
    "Good" advice - how to spoil the tank and turn it into blatant shit, just like in the West
    1. nnm
      nnm 20 December 2020 15: 45
      +5
      And then, as soon as something happens, the main part of the combat work will be performed by Russian / Soviet vehicles. As was the case with the Indo-Chinese conflict. Moreover, both in terms of tanks and aviation.
  • tralflot1832
    tralflot1832 20 December 2020 15: 43
    +5
    You can consider me an expert from Honduras. Of course it will go to Russia as a support tank, and to Slovakia and Poland it will be the main MBT. hi drinks good
  • PSih2097
    PSih2097 20 December 2020 15: 51
    +6
    such as Turkish-Indonesian MMWT, Chinese VT-5

    MMWT - 6 lamas of greenery, and nobody needs a Chinese man at all, the company producing MPF will be announced only in two years (as many as 500 tanks for the US Army) ...
  • svp67
    svp67 20 December 2020 15: 54
    +13
    Their main task is not to fight enemy tanks, but to provide fire support.
    Yes you, what ... It's over there, it's like Petrovich ... So we could not hide this secret ...
    Lord, how many spears have already been broken, that the Russian tank school did not even consider the tank as a purely anti-tank weapon, the tank in it is, first of all, a well-armored, powerfully armed and maneuverable TARAN, breaking through the path of the infantry. Therefore, in the ammunition of Soviet tanks, high-explosive fragmentation shells were always in the majority.
    1. Crimean partisan 1974
      Crimean partisan 1974 20 December 2020 17: 13
      +4
      Therefore, in the ammunition of Soviet tanks, high-explosive fragmentation shells have always been in the majority ... not Seryoga ... at the moment, 72 "crowbars" are put in the standard ammunition in the T-3B7 carousel. 8 cumulative. three ur. type Invar and the rest is OF-32, that is, out of 22 in the carousel, only 4 pieces .... in the front and rear tank-rack they are not equipped with mines, it is almost impossible to use 23 kg manually in a cramped room. .... although this is a standard regulation ... in fact, in the Donbass of the DPR Armed Forces, the T-64 and T-72 tanks were used as a ground monitor, filling the carousel with only OF and UR of the Svir type, and the T-64 as a carrier of the UR Cobra was filled only with HE .... owner is barin
      1. svp67
        svp67 20 December 2020 21: 32
        +2
        Quote: Crimean partisan 1974
        at the moment, the standard ammunition in the T-72B3 carousel has 7 crowbars. 8 cumulative. three ur. type Invar and the rest is OF-32, that is, out of 22 in the carousel, only 4 pieces.

        The ammunition of the tank is INSTALLED by order of the Commander of the District (front). So, everything can be, but there is clearly a lot of COP ... Although it can be designed for certain tasks
        1. Crimean partisan 1974
          Crimean partisan 1974 21 December 2020 10: 05
          +2
          So, everything is possible, but something is clearly a lot of COPs ..... well, at least from the first place .. the first-born served as a shooter-operator on the T-72B. now on a contract with a mechanic drive on the T-72B3 ... says a forward monitor and a reverse monitor at a mechvod on a bug 3, on marches fatigue dropped to zero ... and about the equipment ... in conversations with seasoned tankers, they confirm that DNRovskiy the ammunition is the most correct. crowbar and cumulative time to rest. get confused with gun settings for each type of ammunition
          1. svp67
            svp67 21 December 2020 10: 17
            +1
            Quote: Crimean partisan 1974
            but about the equipment ... in conversations with seasoned tankers, they confirm that the DNR ammunition load is the most correct. crowbar and cumulative time to rest. get confused with gun settings for each type of ammunition

            Something you either do not understand or that you do not express correctly ...
            "Lomik" and "cumulative" time to rest ?????? It's like, if even in your statement, out of 22 shells in VT AZ BOPS-7 units, KS - 8 + 3 = 11 units, a total of 18
            1. Crimean partisan 1974
              Crimean partisan 1974 21 December 2020 19: 15
              0
              .....what is wrong!!! everything is correct ....... which is not correct !!!! 11 +7 is equal to 18, and all the other 4 are OF ... well, they will give out which ones. or the old OV-26 or the new more powerful OF-34 ... and even with me there is no general's checker that would be off my shoulder "Come on, oh ...., everyone should load OF and URs in the tanks", so as it is ... but the reality in battles is somewhat different
          2. Alf
            Alf 21 December 2020 19: 06
            +1
            Quote: Crimean partisan 1974
            crowbar and cumulative time to rest.

            And what are you going to fight with tanks? Hit them with land mines until the enemy crew takes a damn?
            1. Crimean partisan 1974
              Crimean partisan 1974 21 December 2020 19: 23
              0
              And what are you going to fight with tanks? Hit with land mines until the enemy crew doesn’t give a damn? .... and the enemy crew will have to screw up only once. and you don't really need to hit. so that would lie down next .... yes. By the way .. according to the manufacturer's statements, this OF-34 flies as much as 10 meters without losing its lethality ... the only mark in the sights is not at such a distance, so, if you shoot from a high-rise, then you can, but you can pick up a crowbar !!! nothing
              1. Alf
                Alf 21 December 2020 19: 32
                +1
                Quote: Crimean partisan 1974
                and the enemy crew will have to screw up only once. and you don't really need to hit. so that would lie down next .... yes. By the way .. according to the manufacturer's statements, this OF-34 flies as much as 10 meters without losing its lethality ... the only mark in the sights is not at such a distance, so, if you shoot from a high-rise, then you can, but you can pick up a crowbar !!! nothing

                Oh, how bad it is ...
                1. Crimean partisan 1974
                  Crimean partisan 1974 21 December 2020 19: 56
                  +1
                  Oh, how bad it is ... as the Banderlogs say: "zrada. Splendid"
    2. Alf
      Alf 20 December 2020 20: 58
      +3
      Quote: svp67
      Russian tank school

      Soviet ...
      1. svp67
        svp67 20 December 2020 21: 34
        +3
        Quote: Alf
        Soviet ...

        We can say "Soviet", although only one design bureau for the design of combat vehicles was located outside the borders of the RSFSR.
        1. SaLaR
          SaLaR 21 December 2020 19: 50
          -2
          Here are just all KBs worked Soviet people ... stop pulling the blanket ..
        2. Crimean partisan 1974
          Crimean partisan 1974 21 December 2020 20: 01
          +1
          You can say "Soviet", although only one design bureau for the design of combat vehicles was located outside the borders of the RSFSR ... the Ukrainian SSR was an equal Soviet republic ... so the Soviet projection of tanks ... and no other
  • boriz
    boriz 20 December 2020 16: 00
    +6
    "However, despite the larger caliber, the 2A46 is less suitable for the needs of fire support [...] The L-7 gun [and its modern modifications] is much better suited for this task."
    On the letter "D", Demagoguery. This is when the husband assures his wife that .... Well, you get the idea.
  • Bad_gr
    Bad_gr 20 December 2020 16: 01
    +1
    It is strange that the military experts of such military-developed states as the Vatican, Monaco, San Marino, Malta, Luxembourg have not yet expressed their opinion about the T-72.
    It would be interesting to read.
    1. Crimean partisan 1974
      Crimean partisan 1974 20 December 2020 17: 43
      +2
      like the Vatican, Monaco, San Marino, Malta, Luxembourg .. It would be interesting to read ..... and it would be interesting to read what the military experts in Artigas think about it ... evil tongues say that they have a cannon that is even single does not fire. because the roar from a blank shot can frighten the adjacent territory of Uruguay
  • Ros 56
    Ros 56 20 December 2020 16: 02
    -2
    Something in May 45 they were yelling in Prague: save the Russians, and did not consider the fighting qualities of the T-34. Lost, boobies.
    1. Aerodrome
      Aerodrome 20 December 2020 16: 11
      +4
      Quote: Ros 56
      Something in May 45 they were yelling in Prague: save the Russians, and did not consider the fighting qualities of the T-34. Lost, boobies.

      1. The comment was deleted.
  • tralflot1832
    tralflot1832 20 December 2020 16: 14
    +7
    If my memory serves me, the Czechs stood at the machines until May 9 and fought weapons for the Nazis! am
  • Alexander K_2
    Alexander K_2 20 December 2020 16: 23
    +4
    Regardless of any comments, the T-72 tank is undoubtedly magnificent and 40 years ago it practically had no equal! Unfortunately, time is running out and Russia does not have a worthy replacement for it, all the talk about the Armats, Terminators, is just wishful thinking passed off as reality! : soldier
    1. Boris Chernikov
      Boris Chernikov 20 December 2020 17: 18
      +2
      there is a T-90M, taking into account the current situation in the troops there will most likely be about 2 T-000b72m, then 3-200 T-250BVM, 80-250 T-300 and about 14 T-500M, followed by an increase in T-90M and T- 90 due to the withdrawal of the T-14bvm and t-80b72m ..
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. Boris Chernikov
          Boris Chernikov 20 December 2020 18: 03
          +1
          and the Americans got something besides Abrams? T-72b3m has the required minimum-suo with optics allow you to detect and hit a tank at ranges of 3,5 km ... modern shells are also there, protection from RPGs was brought in ... then there is the question of panoramic, APU and KAZ ..
          1. The comment was deleted.
            1. Boris Chernikov
              Boris Chernikov 20 December 2020 19: 03
              +1
              the program was launched in 2011..then it was necessary to compensate for the 20-year lag as quickly as possible..that's why we chose the budget option .. now, in principle, the "fork": either bring the t-72b3m to the level of T-90M + kaz + hopefully a shell-gun from T-14, or switch to purchases of T-90M + Kaz + gun from T-14
              1. Alexander K_2
                Alexander K_2 20 December 2020 19: 30
                -3
                Boris, may I address you like that? The tank is definitely OUTSTANDING for its time, but its time is long gone! How is it possible, with the lag of entire industries (metallurgy, electronics, engine building, chemical industry, optics, etc.), to engage in some kind of modernization. But this is outright money laundering! Or am I wrong? request
                1. Boris Chernikov
                  Boris Chernikov 20 December 2020 19: 37
                  +1
                  there is no need to get a wunderwaffe .. any best tank can be destroyed .. the same Tigers and Royal Tigers were considered the best in the aggregate performance characteristics at one time .. but it didn't really help them when "just good" started to fight against them. 34-85, and there already the IS-2 pulled up ... When calculating combat operations, the expected losses of their forces are always taken into account ... And the t-72b3m or conditional t-72b4 allows you to add a certain coefficient to such calculations, which automatically leads to an increase to " significant "losses among NATO troops, which in itself removes the danger of war for a certain period, and there already some T-14A will be pulled up in sufficient quantity
                  1. Alexander K_2
                    Alexander K_2 20 December 2020 19: 44
                    -3
                    Apparently for these purposes in Laos, if Boris was not mistaken, changed the T-72 for the T-34-85? Then the Russian Armed Forces are on the right path, I'm only afraid this path will lead to trawls at the parade in Baku! Only I'm afraid soon the T-72 will stop starting up, and the Armata and the Terminators We will watch on TV!
                    1. Boris Chernikov
                      Boris Chernikov 20 December 2020 19: 51
                      +1
                      tongue as in that joke .. "will not wait" laughing
                      1. Alexander K_2
                        Alexander K_2 20 December 2020 19: 55
                        -3
                        God forbid, God forbid! laughing
                    2. Alf
                      Alf 20 December 2020 21: 02
                      +1
                      Quote: Alexander K_2
                      Apparently for these purposes in Laos, if Boris was not mistaken, changed the T-72 to the T-34-85?

                      Actually the opposite.
          2. Alf
            Alf 20 December 2020 21: 00
            +1
            Quote: Boris Chernikov
            T-72b3m has the required minimum-suo with optics that allow you to detect and hit a tank at ranges of 3,5 km.

            Are there such open spaces in the European theater of operations?
            1. Boris Chernikov
              Boris Chernikov 20 December 2020 22: 13
              0
              well, in some places we have so much, but I think that this is a technical limitation of the optical horizon
              1. Alf
                Alf 20 December 2020 22: 14
                +1
                Quote: Boris Chernikov
                well, in some places we have so much, but I think that this is a technical limitation of the optical horizon

                Likely.
  • orionvitt
    orionvitt 20 December 2020 16: 26
    +5
    After the war in the Persian Gulf, in which thousands of machines of this type took part, did not really show themselves
    Great argument. laughing It remains only to remember when, in 1938, Germany occupied Czechoslovakia, practically without a single shot. Where were their "vaunted" Pz-38s and 5 million army? laughing
  • Incvizitor
    Incvizitor 20 December 2020 16: 26
    +2
    We saw this fight with enemy tanks in modern local conflicts, there are almost no enemy tanks, but such RPG tanks were easily burned on the sides.
  • _Ugene_
    _Ugene_ 20 December 2020 16: 54
    +3
    KAZ with the overlap of the entire hemisphere would bring this tank to a qualitatively different level, would immediately solve all the problems with both strike drones and ATGMs, but we do not think so
    1. ermolenkomb
      ermolenkomb 29 December 2020 06: 51
      0
      1. KAZ PPC as roads
      2. Resistance to shelling from ATGM and RPG in modern Tshek is also more than, due to Shtora and DZ
      3. KAZ, when triggered, will clean up the escorting infantry around, by the way, the DZ also has such a byaka, but there the fragmentation effect is much less. Well, the attachments around the triggering zone are also kabzda, while it is not a fact that the shot would be sensitive to the tank, and so any shelling essentially removes the car from the battle.
      4. The system is ambiguous in terms of efficiency, there are blind spots
      5. KAZ increases the tank's radar signature, up to the possibility of HARM missiles targeting it (with a stupidly large land mine)
      1. _Ugene_
        _Ugene_ 29 December 2020 11: 54
        0
        all these are trifles compared with the losses of tanks from attack drones and modern anti-tank systems
  • mmaxx
    mmaxx 20 December 2020 17: 00
    0
    Experts from a country famous for their victories ... Only with Jan Hus did they always prefer to give up on sin.
    1. cat Rusich
      cat Rusich 20 December 2020 19: 12
      +2
      Quote: mmaxx
      Only with Jan Hus did they always prefer to surrender away from sin.
      History lesson...
      Jan from Gusinets 1369 - 6 July 1415 Priest, preacher of the Reformation of Catholicism. Not involved in hostilities, the Hussite Wars of 1419-1434 began after the execution Jan Husa July 6, 1415 in Constance, Baden. there is Jan Zizka from Trocnov, here he is - the commander, the leader of the Hussites ... "The terrible blind man" - in the war he lost both eyes in turn. For some time he headed the "robbers from the big tract", was pardoned, joined and headed the Taborites - won many victories from July 1420 to October 1424 - October 11, 1424 died of plague during the siege of Prishibislov.
      1. Alexander Kalashnikov
        Alexander Kalashnikov 27 December 2020 16: 52
        0
        You know the history well, comrade. major. Only you missed one essential point. Yes, both Pan Hus and Pan Zizka were Czechs by nationality. But both of them were born in BOHEMIA, for there was NO "independent Bohemia" at that time: in 1086 the territory of modern Bohemia became part of the Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation, and in 1212 it was named "Kingdom of Bohemia".
        Thus, from 1086 to 1918 the territories inhabited by Czechs were NOT an independent state and, as a result, the toponym "Czechia" in relation to those times exists only in the imagination of the current Czech "historians". (Greetings from the "Ukraine" that existed since the time of the dinosaurs).
        By the way: the "great" Pan Zhizhka, who became famous for a fair amount of atrocity against his enemies, exterminated mainly OWN - for the Hussite Wars (1419-34) were fought EXCLUSIVELY on the territory of Bohemia, and the opponents of the irreconcilable Hussites (Taborites) headed by Pan Zhizhka - including "chashniki" and "Prague residents" were 80% the same Czechs. Which, in general, is not surprising, because Pan ižka began his "military leadership" career as a HEREOR (on the eve of the Battle of Grunwald in 1410, Pan ižka "enrolled" in the army of the Teutonic Order, however, having received money, during the battle itself he defected to the side of the Poles) , and later - before joining the Hussites - he headed a gang of highway robbers operating on the roads of Bohemia and robbing EVERYONE regardless of their "political orientation" ... Here is such a national "hero" of the small but proud homeland of the brave soldier Schweik. Compared to him, even Comrade Kotovsky is simply a masterpiece of patriotism - Grigory Ivanovich, of course, there ALSO was that bandyuk (and also "ideological"), but at least he did not act as mercenaries in foreign armies.
        And further. Pan Hus was utilized thermally in 1415. A drum (according to legend) was made from the skin of Pan Zizka in 1424.
        Do not take it for work: try to name at least ONE war won by the "Czech" STATE over the past 605 dash 597 years.
        1. cat Rusich
          cat Rusich 27 December 2020 17: 06
          0
          Quote: Alexander Kalashnikov

          And further. Pan Hus was utilized thermally in 1415. A drum (according to legend) was made from the skin of Pan Zizka in 1424.
          Do not take it for work: try to name at least ONE war won by the "Czech" STATE over the past 605 dash 597 years.
          German King Sigismund of Luxembourg "promised personal safety to Jan Hus" - ... threw, gave travel letter instead security certificate.
          Jan ижižka - he himself bequeathed to make a drum out of his skin, so that the Taborites would go into battle to the sound of blows on this drum (as it says Czech legend).
          1. Alexander Kalashnikov
            Alexander Kalashnikov 27 December 2020 17: 38
            0
            Thanks for the information. But I know.
            And further. My comment says:
            Quote: "A drum (according to legend) was made from the skin of Pan Zhizka in 1424." End of quote.
            Question: how does your information about the fate of Pan Zizka's skin DIFFERENTLY from mine? Well, except that the degree of detail.
            Analogy: if I wrote in the commentary, for example: "Yuri Gagarin died in 1968 during a training flight on a MiG-15UTI aircraft" you would also recommend me to clarify that Yuri Alekseevich was the first man on Earth to be in space 12 April 1961, and in connection with his death in the USSR, national mourning was declared, which was the first time in the history of the USSR when a day of mourning was declared in connection with the death of a person who was not the current head of state at the time of death?
        2. alexey sidykin
          alexey sidykin 8 January 2021 17: 48
          0
          Yes, it became a part of "St. Rome. Imperial", but the first king is not a Czech, it is Rudolf Habsburg in 1306. After that the Czech Republic practically lost its independence.
        3. The comment was deleted.
  • Old tanker
    Old tanker 20 December 2020 17: 04
    +2
    This Czech is a complete mess in his head. Complete problems with the conceptual apparatus and absolute ignorance of the properties of ammunition.
  • ximkim
    ximkim 20 December 2020 17: 11
    +2
    Quote: Alexey Sommer
    Czechs brew beer well.
    And when did they begin to understand the tanks?
    This Iksperd is a complete layman in tanks.
    Starting from the thesis about the caliber of the gun and ending with a comparison with Indian tanks, for example, for which, in the opinion of this analyst, the full future.)))
    The joker can?

    A lot is in service with the T-72 in countries that have a question about the future of tanks in their army.
  • APASUS
    APASUS 20 December 2020 17: 47
    +2
    Czech military expert David Hall.

    Collapsed everything, MBT and support tank Why did he start comparing the Turkish-Indonesian MMWT, Chinese VT-5 and American MPF ​​with modern systems. He put forward a losing thesis about the superiority of 105 mm guns over 125 mm. In short, a Czech beer specialist !
  • Lesorub
    Lesorub 20 December 2020 17: 56
    +1
    However, despite the larger caliber, the 2A46 is less suitable for the needs of fire support [...] The L-7 gun [and its modern modifications] is much better suited for this task

    - says Hall, pointing out that due to the installation of 105-mm caliber, it is possible to transform the T-72 into a modern medium tank, performing mainly fire support tasks.

    Hall's reasoning - I was reminded of Psaki's incoherent thought-streams.
  • Slippery
    Slippery 20 December 2020 18: 37
    +3
    Quote: voyaka uh
    This caliber is redundant to support the infantry.

    If the infantry "fart steam" drags on itself, one can understand that 125 is excessive, but why would it give up 125 in favor of 105? any infantry, any country in the world, give free rein, and they will justify 152. and if you still drive fast and not from every means you will hit. Dream, not support. With the transition to 105, it is no longer the wishes of the infantry that work, but the possibilities of the budget. For shells, you also need guns, which, alas, are not eternal and are sharpened for the defeat of armored vehicles and not scatter suitcases of the PF, a smaller resource, etc. ... And the Czech lazhanul in the sense that we are the Czechs are smart, we will make a nedosAU out of a tank and sell it to some "Romanians" or "Chukchi"))) My amateurish opinion is T-72 = T-34. This is a tank the war , yes, maybe there are not enough stars from the sky, but the MPs do not go on the attack with daggers either, but with a 6x5 product.
  • Quadro
    Quadro 20 December 2020 20: 19
    +1
    I watch the Czechs, we have MBT experts. How many of these iksperds built MBT of their own design? None, that's all there is to know. But the T-72 was happy to do, ungrateful, and could be like the GDR - without the production of tanks.
  • Doliva63
    Doliva63 20 December 2020 23: 29
    0
    Quote: voyaka uh
    "Yes, the Israeli" combat experience "is interesting only to Israel. I am in terms of the military." ///
    ----
    Israeli combat experience is of interest to anyone who wants to learn modern
    methods of war. For this reason, people come to Israel for special seminars
    every year officers of many European (and not only) countries.
    ----
    As for the calibers, do not confuse howitzers work with support tanks.
    infantry.
    They have different tasks.
    At the infantry support tank - purposefully destroy enemy firing points.
    For this, a caliber of 105 mm is sufficient.
    For howitzers, destroy entire zones on the front line of the enemy, or
    in his rear. The caliber of 155 mm is considered optimal here.
    Always happy to clarify drinks

    There were no "infantry support tanks" in the Soviet Union, if you are not in the know, explained laughing In military affairs, you are at the level of a conscript / dodger, apparently? Oh yes. "Israeli experience" of course laughing Let's avoid communication in the future so as not to be banned. Best hi
    1. Alf
      Alf 21 December 2020 19: 09
      +2
      Quote: Doliva63
      "Israeli experience" of course

      But for some reason, nobody used the layout of the Chariot, and how in the Western armies they shake over the soldier ...
      1. Doliva63
        Doliva63 21 December 2020 20: 40
        +1
        Quote: Alf
        Quote: Doliva63
        "Israeli experience" of course

        But for some reason, nobody used the layout of the Chariot, and how in the Western armies they shake over the soldier ...

        Well, Duc, and I'm about that. But for an Israeli, the whole world revolves around Tel Aviv. laughing
    2. Alexander Kalashnikov
      Alexander Kalashnikov 27 December 2020 17: 25
      +1
      Well, of course! "Israeli experience"! The experience of great tank builders, assembling their "Merkavas" from assemblies produced in SEVEN different countries. Moreover, it is the GATHERING, not the "producing", because "Merkavas" are assembled in the assembly shops of MASHA (Latin transliteration of the Hebrew abbreviation "Repair and restoration centers of the IDF rear services").
      And for 41 years (since 1979) heroic Jews have collected as many as 1970 "Merkav" of all modifications. But for some reason, for these 41 years, no country has expressed a desire to buy this product of the "gloomy Jewish genius", equipped with a "progressive" Christie suspension (greetings from BT and T-Z4). Although no, I'm lying. Singapore is going to buy fifty tanks. It has been going since 2014. But the Jewish "Chariots" have not reached the "City of the Sea and the Lion" to this day. Looks like because they can't swim.
  • hostel
    hostel 21 December 2020 00: 02
    +2
    At all times. The tank was, is and will serve as support for the infantry. Without them, the infantry will do nothing on the battlefield.
  • Konnick
    Konnick 21 December 2020 04: 18
    -1
    Quote: NKT
    And after the occupation of the Czech Republic they liked him so much that they increased the order. A total of about 1500 tanks

    Not only the Germans liked it, but also ... the mice. Isaev told about this episode near Stalingrad, when the mice ate the wiring from the tanks of the 22nd Panzer Division.
  • Viktor Sergeev
    Viktor Sergeev 21 December 2020 08: 02
    0
    Another weirdo lying on the couch decided to speculate about tanks. Understands nothing, but clever, to the point of horror. Compares the newest Abrams with the first T72 and is happy. I'm wondering what a "support tank" is and how does it differ from just a tank? But about the new, simpler and cheaper MSA and light armor, the author pleased. It turns out everything is simple: we take the LMS from the T34, and we also make light armor, for example, from aluminum, put the author there and go on the attack.
  • nekromonger
    nekromonger 24 December 2020 01: 28
    0
    about the rzhunimagu gun, he knows that the smooth-bore 2a46 fires guided missiles for 5 km, and the L7 doesn't even dream about it.
  • Nick nigel
    Nick nigel 25 December 2020 17: 26
    0
    Besides, the author has nothing more to say.
  • Nick nigel
    Nick nigel 25 December 2020 17: 28
    +1
    Okay, let's speak out more tally
    the author writes the gloomy darkness
  • Great Mike
    Great Mike 26 December 2020 08: 29
    +1
    We found an expert ... the main difference between this tank and those listed by the author is that they are fighting on this tank ... and they do not talk about it ...
  • kova1967
    kova1967 26 December 2020 15: 57
    0
    It all depends on the skill of the crew! I remember the words of our veteran about the war in Iraq. He had at least a platoon of his trained crews, the Americans lost! Remember Syria, our T-90 withstood a missile hit! But the crew was Syrian and the hatches were open, because of this, the Shtora system did not work, and after being hit, they jumped out of the tank like cockroaches. And now let's remember Abkhazia, our guys on the T-72, after using the ammunition, were able to disperse the enemy! Our skills are on top! Tank biathlon. Every year we have new crews, mostly privates, while others have mostly officers and they train for a whole year! But ours always leave them behind! This is training and our tank school!
  • Lech Three-fifth
    Lech Three-fifth 26 December 2020 18: 37
    +1
    In the porn industry, Czechs are in a separate group, and that already means something.
  • Glad
    Glad 26 December 2020 22: 38
    +1
    "T-72 will never become MBT"

    Shaw, right ?! Well, then the "Abrams" is also not an MBT, but a tank destroyer. Sure sure...

    I'm embarrassed to ask, in the Czech Republic, have they legalized soft drugs? It seems that yes ... When the heavy ones are legalized, the Czechs will start comparing the T-34 with the MPF.
  • Alexander Kalashnikov
    Alexander Kalashnikov 27 December 2020 15: 48
    0
    Hmmm ... Czech "ehperds" on tanks ... No, if a German were talking about world tank building, or at least a British with a French for a couple - their words (especially the words of a German) would be worth listening to. But a Czech ... a full-time representative of a full-time country who has successfully screwed up ALL wars over the past three hundred years, a country that NEVER knew how to make OWN weapons, but masterfully "creatively refined" ANOTHER - before, mostly German and Russian / Soviet, and now tanskoe. Puppet countries, in whose armed forces today there are only 30 combat-ready tanks (plus a hundred more rotting "in storage"). And the funny thing is that all these tanks are the same T-72s. Moreover, those 30 tanks that still drive and shoot are those T-72s of still Soviet production, "modified" by hardworking (but stupid) "seamstresses" in their best traditions, having stuck an Italian SLA into a "bad and unsuccessful" Soviet tank, a British an engine with a Tang transmission (adapted for installation in the T-72 by Israeli designers) and a Tang GPS system ... As a result, the "Czech" T-72M4 CZ tank came out, ASSEMBLED in an amount of 30 pieces ...
    And these "geniuses" of tank building are blathering about the T-72, which, taking into account licensed copies and foreign developments "based on", produced more than 40 thousand pieces?
    Sir and Seruny, or rather Herr and Herruny from Schweikostan - aren't you funny yourself?
  • Alexander Kalashnikov
    Alexander Kalashnikov 27 December 2020 17: 11
    0
    "Czech" ehperd ", ...
    For reference. Since 1985 (starting with the M1A1 variant), ONLY the 120 mm M256 smoothbore cannon has been installed on the Abram-S tanks (licensed version of the German Rheinmetall Rh-120 gun)
    On the German tanks "Leopard-2" from the moment of their birth (1979), ONLY a smoothbore cannon 120-mm Rheinmetall Rh-120 cannon is installed.
    On the French tanks "Leclerc AMX-56), from the moment of their birth (1992), ONLY a 120-mm smoothbore gun of the CN-120-26 model is installed.
    From the moment of their birth (2) on the British Challenger 1994 tanks, ONLY the 120 mm L30A1 rifled gun has been installed.
    However, apparently, this "great" Czech "ehperd" does not consider the above tanks "modern".
  • ermolenkomb
    ermolenkomb 29 December 2020 06: 43
    0
    Quote: 113262
    What? An even more simplified LMS than 72? Yes, the bourgeois with their solid-state gyroscopes and electric power drives already have such capabilities to improve the LMS! We have not dreamed yet! And the fact that at 72 is still worth laughing at the chickens! The same PDPS of eighties and 64-ki-space compared to the poverty of Tagil! Even in the 80s the difference was huge, but now, after Transmash and Kirov's plant were devoured, it is considered that 72 is the best!


    The T-64 chassis was initially unsuccessful (weak bearing capacity, overloading of the main units, small in diameter and narrow roller, which, when uncoiled, gnawed half a diameter into the ground, was much more vulnerable and had a smaller resource, covered the sides much worse), as well as well as AZ (more vulnerable to shelling, the charge was more dimensional, the shells blocked access to the driver's seat from the tower, complicating emergency evacuation). In my opinion, it was in vain at one time it was used for the T-80 base, which, among other things (besides the fact that the gas turbine engine is not suitable in principle in our conditions for use on tanks), determined its lack of demand in the domestic and foreign markets. And the squalor of the T-72 is the best-selling and most massive MBT in the world.
    The fact that a cheaper OMS was put on it (on the first modifications) is not the fault of the Nizhny Tagil designers, but the customer's specification. It was simply not possible to provide more advanced products for the entire volume of tanks produced, which UVZ produced up to 180 units per month (such volumes were never dreamed of by any tank plant) and this predetermined the T-72 as a legend in tank building.
  • Vyacheslav Ivanov_2
    Vyacheslav Ivanov_2 30 December 2020 16: 27
    0
    The usual lying NATO propagandist
  • alekswolf63
    alekswolf63 29 January 2021 19: 59
    0
    Whatever they say, the tank has always been a means of strengthening the infantry. Until the infantry occupies the line, the battle is considered not over. There are so many electronics on the tanks that if a 120mm high-explosive projectile hits, you can send any tank for repairs. The T-55 is still successfully used in local conflicts, the T-72 has a long life for about 50 years, so "Rumors about my death are greatly exaggerated."
  • the47th
    the47th 6 February 2021 21: 20
    0
    If the T-72 is not good, then what about the Leopard-1, M60 ...
    led to an unsuccessful placement of ammunition [possibly, we are talking about the risk of detonation of ammunition]

    I wonder, then, which tank has a good ammunition position?
  • Growlers
    Growlers 11 February 2021 19: 00
    +5
    The Czech Republic has never been a military power, it has never had a strong combat-ready army, it has never had theorists and practitioners of military affairs. At least they are invisible against the global background. So the cleverness of the Czech "experts" must be approached very, very carefully. The Czechs can do good technique, but they can fight and evaluate and predict accordingly, not with their shameful history
  • Skif
    Skif 23 February 2021 21: 49
    0
    Dismantle the automatic loader, you say? Here I would ask the loader. And then here you are! Czech expert
  • Sergey11121
    Sergey11121 14 March 2021 03: 45
    0
    I like to drink beer at t -72.
  • Evgeny Seleznev
    Evgeny Seleznev 14 March 2021 14: 45
    0
    Not entirely correct. The T-72 is an MBT. It has many modifications and, as always, it is customary to compare the performance characteristics of MBT, omitting the methods of use and tactics. German tanks at the beginning of WWII were not very successful models, but the tactics of their use in cooperation with other branches of the military gave excellent results. And the beating of babies in Desert Storm is the failure of Iraq, not the weakness of the MBT. Also Leopards and Ambrams and others are burning. If not brains, nothing will help. If you have no strength, do not shine.
  • Growlers
    Growlers 15 March 2021 13: 00
    +1
    Where in a country that has always surrendered to the mercy of the winner, so many military experts? This is probably a matured shkolota who still thinks that he has read articles on the Internet and you are already an expert.