Military Review

German reporters: war in Karabakh deprives German army of combat drones

52

In a few months, the German military will receive five Heron TP UAVs, produced by the Israeli defense company Israel Aerospace Industries. Basically, this aircraft is capable of performing reconnaissance functions, but it is also possible to equip it with air-to-surface missiles.


Reporters of the Deutsche Welle television and radio company report that a number of German politicians are categorically opposed to equipping UAVs with lethal weapons.

For the German Ministry of Defense, this was a complete surprise, because there they were already preparing urgently to equip the purchased drones with missiles to destroy ground targets. Suddenly, representatives of the Social Democratic Party of Germany (SPD) refused to support this decision. They believe that it should be thoroughly discussed beforehand.

There is only a fine line between protecting the lives of our soldiers and being able to destroy them with a joystick.

- SPD Co-Chairman Norbert Walter-Boryans shared his doubts.

The deputies believe that such "automation" can remove the last restraining psychological barriers from combatants. Gabriela Heinrich, deputy chairman of the SPD faction in the Bundestag, said that the impetus for this decision was the active participation of shock drones in the latest Armenian-Azerbaijani conflict. Thus, the war in Karabakh deprives the German army of combat drones.

Another argument of opponents of arming UAVs with lethal weapons is that if the Bundeswehr has such weapons, NATO allies will increase pressure on the FRG, demanding participation in more dangerous foreign missions. Now the German military is limiting its presence in joint operations of the North Atlantic bloc to instructors, observers and technical personnel.

The Israeli Heron TP multipurpose unmanned aerial vehicle is equipped with turboprop engines and is larger than its predecessors. He is able to continuously stay in the air for more than 30 hours.

Photos used:
IAI
52 comments
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  1. Pereira
    Pereira 20 December 2020 11: 06
    +8
    Not supposed to them.
    And also leave only propaganda shells in the artillery.
  2. poquello
    poquello 20 December 2020 11: 11
    +9
    think correctly, there is nothing to get into all this shit if there is a possibility, but is there
  3. rocket757
    rocket757 20 December 2020 11: 26
    +6
    An interesting position of German politicians.
    This does not threaten us, it is too painful for our neighbors and "partners" to be envious, and even armed to the teeth.
    1. Doctor
      Doctor 20 December 2020 11: 53
      +2
      An interesting position of German politicians.
      This does not threaten us, it is too painful for our neighbors and "partners" to be envious, and even armed to the teeth.

      China?
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 20 December 2020 12: 04
        +6
        Quote: Arzt
        China?

        Don't you know anyone else?
        However, you should not write down the great, faithful friends you indicated, we will be more whole.
        1. volodimer
          volodimer 20 December 2020 13: 02
          +1
          Does someone really threaten them? France remembered old grievances? I don’t think so. If mattress mats do not fuss from their territory, then the Bundes can sleep peacefully. We have definitely not lost anything there. We "fought" with the Germans for a long time, we have no problems and "Swedish" complexes with each other. And with whom should they still fight here and now? To persuade Poland?
          We ourselves are not going to, they also have those willing to count on one hand. If not Anglo-Saxons, then we can easily do without war. Why then spend money on something that is not needed.
          We are different with the Germans, but we find a common language easier than with the Angles, but they always push our heads together, and they drag the chestnuts for us ...
          VictorWho is actually threatening Germany now? Jury modestly did not mention Russia, but then who remains? China and the USA ... England and France ... well, the law is not serious, and there is no reason.
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 20 December 2020 13: 28
            +4
            What is, can really happen, is very different from what THEIR media, THEIR POLICIES broadcast.
            We, with our opinion, are behind the "fence" and we will never, ever, be allowed into THEIR information space.
            However, this is still their common choice, they agree to live in their own little world ... however, like most other communities.
            The world is like that and until a serious, global cataclysm has occurred, nothing has changed.
            1. volodimer
              volodimer 20 December 2020 13: 36
              +2
              The problem is that even these media are not theirs.
              our opinion, unfortunately, will not reach them ...
              "Do the Russians want wars ..." They will not hear, they will not understand, although this song is also in German
              1. rocket757
                rocket757 20 December 2020 13: 50
                +2
                So it has long been clear that a big international of the rich of the whole world took place ...
                Most of the events take place at their will and desire.
        2. Doctor
          Doctor 20 December 2020 13: 03
          +3
          Don't you know anyone else?
          However, you should not write down the great, faithful friends you indicated, we will be more whole.

          I walked in a circle along the border, except for China, I did not find anyone armed, from those who dare.
          Ukraine only if Crimea goes to fight back. But even doubtful ... wink
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 20 December 2020 13: 36
            +1
            China has enough worries and interests in its warm lands.
            It's not interesting to talk about every little thing.
            On big, serious ones, we have a vigorous loaf at the ready, because they and their barks keep their distance, while looking for other approaches and methods.
            But it is a big mistake not to do what has become ubiquitous EVERYWHERE, because such a technique has prospects.
    2. Aaron Zawi
      Aaron Zawi 20 December 2020 12: 11
      +9
      Quote: rocket757
      An interesting position of German politicians.
      This does not threaten us, it is too painful for our neighbors and "partners" to be envious, and even armed to the teeth.

      You are just lucky that you have such idiots as the German Social Democrats have been driven under the lock.
      1. XXXIII
        XXXIII 20 December 2020 12: 27
        +2
        Quote: Aaron Zawi
        Quote: rocket757
        An interesting position of German politicians.
        This does not threaten us, it is too painful for our neighbors and "partners" to be envious, and even armed to the teeth.

        You are just lucky that you have such idiots as the German Social Democrats have been driven under the lock.

        Who do you mean?
        1. martin-159
          martin-159 20 December 2020 19: 51
          +1
          Apparently the RSDLP.
      2. rocket757
        rocket757 20 December 2020 13: 42
        +2
        Each country, people, has the right to start its own ... strange politicians, organizations and so on.
        We have our own identity and not enough !!!
        Yesterday I was a goat ... tf, my wife said that "House 2" was closed on TNT !? "Strange" program, "strange" TV people did it and the same "strange" they watched IT ...
  4. Revolver
    Revolver 20 December 2020 11: 26
    +9
    Germans buy weapons from Jews. Hitler turns over in hell, or rather turns like a fan.
    1. Russia
      Russia 20 December 2020 13: 14
      +5
      Come on, they have historically been components of this fan for a long time. So he lies there and does not blow in the mustache.
    2. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 20 December 2020 13: 22
      +14
      Hitler is only 12 years in the history of the German people, which includes
      several hundred years.
      And starting to count from the provinces of the Roman Empire - about 2 thousand years.
    3. alpamys
      alpamys 20 December 2020 13: 26
      -2
      Quote: Nagan
      Germans buy weapons from Jews. Hitler turns over in hell, or rather turns like a fan.

      Believe it or not, Germany buys potatoes from Jews, but this does not mean that we do not have our own, laughing forced, but the Germans have diarrhea from this potato, and this is not a joke, the Jews are too clever with chemicals, but the Germans cannot refuse purchases, so they immediately process it.
      1. Revolver
        Revolver 20 December 2020 19: 58
        0
        Quote: alpamys
        Germany buys potatoes from Jews ... but from this potato diarrhea from the Germans

        That Russian a Jew in health, a German death. lol
  5. Tusv
    Tusv 20 December 2020 11: 32
    +6
    But it's true. Nemchura is actively crying that everything is bad with them. More than half of the planes do not fly, tanks do not travel, a national Pro has not been created. True Sons of Bumbarash
    I don't give a damn, I don’t give a damn, I’m tired of fighting,
    I don’t know anything, my hut is on the edge.
    My hut is small, stove and mound,
    But it’s not official, but its own legal one.
    You are Erema, I am Thomas, you are my word, I are the two
    And I’ll stuff your piece of paper with a little shirt.
    You are a nation and I am a nation, but my dear is waiting for me at home,
    I’ll give birth to her, I’ll come to sagitrate.
    Glory to you, Lord, I had the urge to suck
    For my sweetheart, I’ll leave a little silyshki.
    I don’t give a damn, I don’t give a damn, I’m tired of fighting,
    We were soldiers, and now to the hut.
    1. Avior
      Avior 20 December 2020 12: 43
      +7
      Need to translate into German smile
    2. alpamys
      alpamys 20 December 2020 13: 31
      +3
      Quote: Tusv
      But it's true. Nemchura is actively crying that everything is bad with them. More than half of the planes do not fly, tanks do not travel, a national Pro has not been created.

      I don't remember who said, if you are weak, pretend to be strong, if you are strong, say that you are weak.
      1. Mountain shooter
        Mountain shooter 21 December 2020 07: 12
        +1
        Quote: alpamys
        I don't remember who said, if you are weak, pretend to be strong, if you are strong, say that you are weak.

        "Sun Tzu" - "The Art of War" ...
  6. rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 20 December 2020 11: 34
    +2
    such "automation" can remove the last deterrent psychological barriers from combatants
    While the Germans are arguing, others, incl. and their allies use without bothering with psychological barriers.
  7. Lipchanin
    Lipchanin 20 December 2020 11: 36
    +1
    that if the Bundeswehr has such weapons, NATO allies will increase pressure on the FRG, demanding participation in more dangerous foreign missions.

    Why would they need a mission at all. Sit at home and you will have peace and quiet on your land
    He is able to continuously stay in the air for more than 30 hours.

    Not so weak
    1. ul_vitalii
      ul_vitalii 20 December 2020 12: 55
      +3
      Greetings! hi I agree, let the Germans and some German women in the government, the Turks and other "pies" from those regions digest, in part of the rooted people on their lands. yes
  8. Gennady Fomkin
    Gennady Fomkin 20 December 2020 11: 38
    +1
    laughing Well done .... The Jews are doing the right thing.
  9. Eroma
    Eroma 20 December 2020 11: 49
    +6
    Fuck how the Germans were re-educated! lol and when in Europe they said: "each state has its own army and only the Prussian army has its own state!"
    Heron has no shitty dimensions and sho such a bast is a difficult target for air defense?
    1. _Ugene_
      _Ugene_ 20 December 2020 12: 16
      +2
      Cruising speed 130 km / h, service ceiling 9150m, wing area 13m² (but there is a lot of plastic), I think for air defense such as torus this is just entertainment, but Ose is too tough, as practice has shown, about the EPR of this UAV question
  10. _Ugene_
    _Ugene_ 20 December 2020 12: 13
    +6
    There is only a fine line between protecting the lives of our soldiers and being able to destroy them with a joystick.
    Are they serious or is it some kind of internal grater and morality for excuses? and then they contain American nuclear weapons at their bases, is it humane, and the missiles on drones are not humane?
  11. XXXIII
    XXXIII 20 December 2020 12: 25
    +3
    Another argument of opponents of arming UAVs with lethal weapons is that if the Bundeswehr has such weapons, NATO allies will increase pressure on the FRG, demanding participation in more dangerous foreign missions. Now the German military is limiting its presence in joint operations of the North Atlantic bloc to instructors, observers and technical personnel.
    This is the main argument, not stupid Germans, they understand that they will be required to participate. And to die for the sake of stupid ideas and ambitions of the main dictator in NATO, well, I don't really want to.
    1. Overlock
      Overlock 20 December 2020 14: 01
      +10
      Quote: XXXIII
      not stupid Germans, they understand that they will just take part and demand. And to die for the sake of stupid ideas and ambitions of the main dictator in NATO, well, I don't really want to.

      how much do they match him? Long ago they did not care, they are developing the economy. Who is the German to fight with if he has the first economy in Europe? Will buy or crush economically.
      1. XXXIII
        XXXIII 20 December 2020 14: 09
        +2
        Quote: Overlock
        Quote: XXXIII
        not stupid Germans, they understand that they will just take part and demand. And to die for the sake of stupid ideas and ambitions of the main dictator in NATO, well, I don't really want to.

        how much do they match him? Long ago they did not care, they are developing the economy. Who is the German to fight with if he has the first economy in Europe? Will buy or crush economically.

        So they show that this bait will not fall for. There they already write that a retired Pentagon general asks Biden to put pressure on Germany. So it's not over yet, but the Germans are not ready to fight, and they are not going to. In general, it seems that Turkey is not alone in NATO acting in its own interests, here Germany is already emerging, you look and France will arrive.)) Maktron said something about European NATO, maybe a secret plan is already being implemented.
        1. Overlock
          Overlock 20 December 2020 14: 22
          +10
          Quote: XXXIII
          but the Germans are not ready to fight, and they are not going to.

          That's it!
          А
          Quote: XXXIII
          ... retired ...
          everywhere are the same: both to retire and pour out ... It's boring to see idle
  12. Gennady Fomkin
    Gennady Fomkin 20 December 2020 12: 44
    +5
    The Turkish unmanned compote from foreign components really turned out to be successful. He showed himself well in wars against armies that do not have solid air defense. Its capabilities and methods of counteracting its use will soon be a year, as specialists of the RF Ministry of Defense in Syria and Libya are studying in practice. Now the invaluable experience of the Karabakh war has been added to this knowledge. Yermans that turned into a third world country? laughing
    However, the concept of victory on the battlefield, fashionable for the third world countries, has one significant flaw. It only works if the enemy is unable or embarrassed to strike at the military and civilian infrastructure deep in the belligerent country.

    It makes no sense to place the same "Bayraktars" on airfields located in the zone of operation of enemy tactical missiles. Russia has a range of such missiles over three thousand kilometers. Because thanks to the presence of such "drones" as operational-tactical and cruise missiles, the entire territory of Germany can be turned into one huge zone of infrastructural and global humanitarian disaster in hours.
    1. Overlock
      Overlock 20 December 2020 13: 59
      +10
      Quote: Gennady Fomkin
      Yermans that turned into a third world country?

      judging by the defense ministers, for a long time already. Not those Germans, not those! Drink beer, eat sausage, sell - that's all they can do. Where are the Mercedes cars with million-strong engines? The army is also there. On the other hand, everyone is fine, let them drink beer rather than march
      1. GTYCBJYTH2021
        GTYCBJYTH2021 21 December 2020 06: 41
        -1
        Quote: Overlock
        Quote: Gennady Fomkin
        Yermans that turned into a third world country?

        judging by the defense ministers, for a long time already. Not those Germans, not those! Drink beer, eat sausage, sell - that's all they can do. Where are the Mercedes cars with million-strong engines? The army is also there. On the other hand, everyone is fine, let them drink beer rather than march

        Today, having drunk beer, they will go marching ... Tomorrow, on a shot or two of local schnapps, having accepted, and where were our grandfathers in the Eastern War, near Moscow ..... And start the war in April-May-Moscow and would have been captured. not mine, a single ship in Germany left to live ........ Everyone wants his children to be happy ....
    2. onstar9
      onstar9 20 December 2020 21: 29
      0
      Quote: Gennady Fomkin
      the entire territory of Germany can be turned into one huge zone of infrastructural and global humanitarian disaster in hours.

      That is why Germany needs a normal army with drones and other weapons, if they understand anything at all. You can't just live without a normal weapon, when there is a country nearby that is not at all close in spirit and constantly hints that "we can repeat you in an hour." But, in Germany, a generation of "peaceful, eggless twins" has long been brought out, who will not fight, even if they are attacked. Therefore, they will be "scared" more and more. And they will "pay" for everyone ... Therefore, the lot of the Germans is "to plow, pay and not rock the boat" ...
  13. Mavrikiy
    Mavrikiy 20 December 2020 12: 45
    +2
    The deputies believe that such "automation" can remove the last limiting psychological barriers from combatants.
    I just wanted to rejoice, long live democracy! fellowand here:
    The argument of opponents of arming UAVs with lethal weapons is that if the Bundeswehr has such weapons, NATO allies will increase pressure on the FRG, demanding participation in more dangerous foreign missions.
    Yes gentlemen, you will decide whether you have an army or a brothel, where at the entrance they require a "security" certificate repeat
  14. 7,62x54
    7,62x54 20 December 2020 12: 52
    +5
    So they were scared of the joystick, and for example from PzH 2000 to hammer it peacefully.
  15. Mikhail3
    Mikhail3 20 December 2020 12: 53
    +2
    Well yes. The US has huge problems with drone operators. First, this scum feels like gods, and then the psyche begins to crumble. And the level of hatred for those who kill you without risking anything is completely different than for the enemy who is at war with you. The United States has already faced all this, and they still have to drink this cup to the bottom ...
  16. tralflot1832
    tralflot1832 20 December 2020 13: 34
    +1
    Level the Ramstein base and listen to Ramstein and you will be happy. Only you will have to defend against an Englishwoman over time, and with Poland, if we can help you, how much money will you save! Option? fellow
  17. Overlock
    Overlock 20 December 2020 13: 56
    +9
    ... it should be carefully discussed beforehand.

    The Germans give it! We have as they say: if you want to fill up the case, create a commission. Have we learned, or what?
  18. Hagen
    Hagen 20 December 2020 20: 49
    -1
    Another argument of opponents of arming UAVs with lethal weapons is that if the Bundeswehr has such weapons, NATO allies will increase pressure on the FRG, demanding participation in more dangerous foreign missions. Now the German military is limiting its presence in joint operations of the North Atlantic bloc to instructors, observers and technical personnel.

    Judging by this argument, this is why the post of defense minister is entrusted to gynecologists and non-practicing lawyers. laughing
  19. certero
    certero 20 December 2020 21: 02
    +1
    Quote: volodimer
    Does someone really threaten them? France remembered old grievances? I don't think

    The military, unlike journalists, must operate with opportunities. Whether the neighbor has the ability to dust you or not. Because today he is a friend and love in a bolt, and tomorrow is a hell of a thing, and it's a completely different matter.
  20. Narak-zempo
    Narak-zempo 20 December 2020 21: 09
    +1
    Deputies believe that such "automation" can remove the last limiting psychological barriers from combatants

    Bosh what.
    The pilot of a conventional aircraft observes the target on the screen in the same way and launches a rocket with the press of a button, just like an operator of a drone.
    Yes, pulling the trigger of a rifle is also just a finger movement.
    1. Intruder
      Intruder 21 December 2020 00: 59
      0
      exactly, as well as the operator of the air defense missile system remotely seeing the target, without hesitation sending missiles to launch, or sailors and even tankers, the era of remote weapons after the invention of throwing weapons of all stripes ... why did the Germans raise the hype, or rather, what will it all lead to?
  21. Gennady Fomkin
    Gennady Fomkin 20 December 2020 22: 19
    -2
    Quote: Overlock
    Quote: XXXIII
    not stupid Germans, they understand that they will just take part and demand. And to die for the sake of stupid ideas and ambitions of the main dictator in NATO, well, I don't really want to.

    how much do they match him? Long ago they did not care, they are developing the economy. Who is the German to fight with if he has the first economy in Europe? Will buy or crush economically.

    Germany has recently risen to 12th place in the COVID anti-rating, the number of deaths from coronavirus has exceeded 25 thousand people, the government is tightening quarantine measures and restrictions on business operations, and the economy has long gone negative laughing
  22. yfast
    yfast 20 December 2020 23: 17
    0
    Quote: voyaka uh
    Hitler is only 12 years in the history of the German people, which includes
    several hundred years.
    And starting to count from the provinces of the Roman Empire - about 2 thousand years.

    But he did it for five thousand years.
  23. Gennady Fomkin
    Gennady Fomkin 21 December 2020 06: 07
    -1
    Quote: Gennady Fomkin
    Quote: Overlock
    Quote: XXXIII
    not stupid Germans, they understand that they will just take part and demand. And to die for the sake of stupid ideas and ambitions of the main dictator in NATO, well, I don't really want to.

    how much do they match him? Long ago they did not care, they are developing the economy. Who is the German to fight with if he has the first economy in Europe? Will buy or crush economically.

    Germany has recently risen to 12th place in the COVID anti-rating, the number of deaths from coronavirus has exceeded 25 thousand people, the government is tightening quarantine measures and restrictions on business operations, and the economy has long gone negative laughing

    Germanophiles will resist and hold on to their delusions - this is a matter of faith with them, not reason
  24. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
    Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 22 December 2020 12: 10
    0
    Thus, the war in Karabakh deprives the German army of combat drones.


    pretty dumb summary. Sometimes the logic of VO "analysts" pleases with its twists and turns.