Military Review

NPO Energomash conducted the first firing tests of the RD-171MV rocket engine

94
NPO Energomash conducted the first firing tests of the RD-171MV rocket engine

The new Russian rocket engine RD-171MV, developed by NPO Energomash for the Soyuz-5 launch vehicle, has passed fire tests. This was announced by the head of Roscosmos Dmitry Rogozin.


And another good one news from our engine builders: Energomash today conducted the first full-size firing test of the world's most powerful liquid-propellant rocket engine RD-171MV. All parameters are normal

- Rogozin wrote on Twitter.

The new RD-171MV engine is a modification of the RD-171M engine, which is used in the first stage of the Zenit launch vehicle. It is being developed for the new Soyuz-5 (Irtysh) medium-class launch vehicles and super-heavy missiles.

The NPO Energomash said earlier that the capacity of the RD-171MV is 246 thousand horsepower, and the thrust with a mass of 10 tons exceeds 800 tons. The first engine is planned to be handed over to the customer in 2021 for installation on the first stage of the Soyuz-5 launch vehicle (Irtysh), which is scheduled to launch in 2022 from the Baikonur cosmodrome.

The Soyuz-5 medium-class launch vehicle (Irtysh) is being developed by the Energia Rocket and Space Corporation according to a preliminary design previously approved by Roscosmos. In November of this year, it became known that Roskosmos has once again postponed the delivery of the draft design of the new Russian Soyuz-5 missile system by eight months. As follows from the materials of the state corporation posted on the public procurement website, the new date is July 30, 2021. The reason for the transfer is the lack of funds.
Photos used:
https://twitter.com/Rogozin
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  1. Mavrikiy
    Mavrikiy 19 December 2020 08: 05
    -14%
    Rogozin does not sleep! repeat
    "And soon we will fly to the moon,
    what should we fight with America? "(Vysotsky)
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Bar1
      Bar1 19 December 2020 08: 41
      +5
      The union with the RD107-4 engines at the first stage develops -330 tons, and with this RD171 engines - 800 tons. It will be a completely different rocket, with different tasks.By the way, Angara with its RD191-4 pieces at the first stage - 9 tons, is already lighter than one RD171.
      Glory to the SOVIET technology.
      It's a pity to lose these engines after each start, it's time to think about the return of the steps.
      1. Mavrikiy
        Mavrikiy 19 December 2020 08: 52
        0
        Quote: Bar1
        It's a pity to lose these engines after each start, it's time to think about the return of the steps.

        It remains to decide where to return? and where? (the trajectory of the rocket is inclined, or rather almost a parabola) Siberia, taiga, mountains .... There are no airships yet. Amers are well, they start on the seashore, ( repeat there apples), you can splash down or a controlled descent to the platform. recourse
        1. Bar1
          Bar1 19 December 2020 08: 59
          +5
          Quote: Mavrikiy
          It remains to decide where to return? and where? (the trajectory of the rocket is inclined, or rather almost a parabola) Siberia, taiga, mountains .... There are no airships yet. Amers are good, they start on the seashore, (there are apples), you can splash down or a controlled descent to the platform.


          of course, you have to navigate to the Vostochny cosmodrome, from there take off, but landing can also be on a simple site, not as armored as at the cosmodrome.
          And to build an airship in the modern printing business, what they have, what we have, is such a trifle that it’s ridiculous to say. fellow
          1. Intruder
            Intruder 19 December 2020 22: 56
            +3
            And to build an airship in the modern printing business, what they have, what we have, is such a trifle that it’s ridiculous to say.
            only now the cost of helium bites for its operation, plus weather conditions also more affect, with its windage of the load-bearing shell, and in Siberia there are many places where a step can fall and "abyss" in the dense taiga and all this will cover with snow in a day, or even faster ... for those who have not been in the Siberian taiga in winter, this is certainly surprising, but it is so ... :) Siberians have "distances, not in kilometers - but measured in days ...", somehow, So:)
          2. Arthur 85
            Arthur 85 20 December 2020 15: 41
            +1
            I am ashamed to ask: how will the airship help? Should it be packed in the first stage? Or will he catch a multi-ton pipe flying at a breakneck speed?
          3. Arthur 85
            Arthur 85 20 December 2020 15: 45
            +1
            By the way, what is the general problem with her return? Is the parachute coming off?
          4. Simargl
            Simargl 20 December 2020 18: 30
            0
            Quote: Bar1
            And to build an airship in the modern printing business, what they have, what we have, is such a trifle that it’s ridiculous to say.
            Only "Hindenburg" was considered a ruler, and now supercomputers are not even close neither in size nor in terms of carrying capacity.
      2. Bar1
        Bar1 19 December 2020 09: 13
        +1
        Someone really does not like Soviet technology, we will not point the finger, although this is of course TOPVO.
        1. aleksejkabanets
          aleksejkabanets 19 December 2020 09: 37
          +3
          Quote: Bar1
          although this is of course TOPVO.

          Please tell me what is "TOPVO"?
          1. Bar1
            Bar1 19 December 2020 10: 02
            +1
            Quote: aleksejkabanets
            Please tell me what is "TOPVO"?

            this is such an open secret.
      3. Boris Chernikov
        Boris Chernikov 19 December 2020 10: 16
        -1
        for Angara, they are considering the return of some stages on the "Baikal" theme
        1. Bar1
          Bar1 19 December 2020 11: 48
          -5
          Quote: Boris Chernikov
          for Angara, they are considering the return of some stages on the "Baikal" theme

          and thoughts from stress did not turn sour, for twenty years to think about the same thing?
          1. Boris Chernikov
            Boris Chernikov 19 December 2020 12: 19
            0
            well, consider the 90s and 00s as "development" is no longer comme il faut, in those years most of the work was carried out with the left heel by one team in order to "take time", but right now they want to send real finances in order to start normal work
        2. military_cat
          military_cat 19 December 2020 16: 38
          0
          Quote: Boris Chernikov
          for Angara, they are considering the return of some stages on the "Baikal" theme

          Yes, they are already experiencing (probably):
          https://ria.ru/20190826/1557911610.html
          1. Boris Chernikov
            Boris Chernikov 19 December 2020 17: 12
            0
            well, so far no information about the tests came across, Maybe they decided next year, so we wait, sir
        3. Arthur 85
          Arthur 85 21 December 2020 07: 45
          0
          And if you try to make a "detachable engine", which would sit in the rocket body "on a cone" and would not fall out during operation, but after work would fall out by itself (or fired back with squibs) and landed on an individual parachute? And the pipe, the clown with it, let it fall ... I give an idea.
          1. Boris Chernikov
            Boris Chernikov 21 December 2020 09: 14
            -1
            if such an engine falls with a parachute, it can only be thrown out, not to mention the fact that, due to high pressure, the approach of "detachable" engines will lead to an explosion of fuel lines
            1. Arthur 85
              Arthur 85 21 December 2020 15: 01
              -1
              I will not say anything about the fuel lines - I don’t know, but if the NVD is introduced into the engine casing, and the fuel is supplied to it through low-pressure pipelines, but with a larger diameter? Adapt a device to the parachute for damping the speed at the last moment before touching the ground (as when dropping equipment). I think it will still be cheaper than losing engines every time.
              1. Boris Chernikov
                Boris Chernikov 21 December 2020 17: 52
                -3
                and it will also make it necessary to reduce the mass of the withdrawn cargo .. RD-170 weighs 10 tons, even if we assume that we will put extinguishing systems and parachutes, then we will talk about a system of 1,5 tons. from the conditional Zenith-2 from its 13,7 tons, you can safely throw out these 1,5 tons, not to mention the alteration of the rocket itself in order to shove a baaalsh bundle of a parachute there, and this is also 0,5 tons of iron ... in total, 2 tons of minutes -too much
                1. Arthur 85
                  Arthur 85 21 December 2020 18: 39
                  0
                  Still, not minus two tons of payload, but minus two tons of weight of 2 + 3 stages + payload, this is not the same thing ... But I'll think about it, since you are laughing
                  1. Boris Chernikov
                    Boris Chernikov 21 December 2020 18: 42
                    -2
                    tongue alas, but this is exactly minus 2 tons to the payload, because there is no longer where to cut
                    1. Arthur 85
                      Arthur 85 21 December 2020 18: 58
                      0
                      Okay, so then. To make the rocket in cross section is not round, but oval. Throughout the upper 2/3 of the first stage, two weakened "seams" go from top to bottom (but not along the semiaxes). After the separation of the first stage, the remains of the fuel-oxidizing mixture are undermined, and the body, like the barrel of a gun, opens with a "rose" into two petals. Due to the weight of the engine, this thing will fall down the engine. Due to the asymmetry of the "petals", this garbage will spin in the air, like the propeller of a helicopter, and reduce the falling speed. (To make it fall exactly with the slider down, the length of the "blades" can be varied by 2/3 or 1/2 or 10%). And a second before touching, the main engine turns on on the remaining fuel in the spare tank.
                      1. Boris Chernikov
                        Boris Chernikov 21 December 2020 19: 08
                        -2
                        not the fact that it will roll - purposefully weakening the structure means increasing the chances of a missile accident, therefore everyone suggests planting the entire stage
                      2. Arthur 85
                        Arthur 85 21 December 2020 19: 12
                        0
                        Well, this is, for example, for trucks ... But okay, if someone needs a reusable stage - write. I'll think of something else. But do not give out the keys to the intercom to the Mask hi
                      3. Arthur 85
                        Arthur 85 21 December 2020 19: 33
                        0
                        He loves, Musk, to come to everything ready. And I'm not NASA to him. Let her prepare a basket of jam and a barrel of cookies.
                      4. Boris Chernikov
                        Boris Chernikov 21 December 2020 20: 14
                        -1
                        laughing well, if Rogozin asks me, I'll give him your contacts
                      5. Arthur 85
                        Arthur 85 21 December 2020 20: 55
                        +1
                        Well, Rogozin, okay, you can. My office hours are from 9 to 18 on days when I'm not on duty ... But let him carry a basket of jam too. We have a free market, or already where? bully
  • Cosm22
    Cosm22 19 December 2020 11: 26
    +1
    This is how we have already thought about the return of the steps. And not so long ago.
    However, what is today?
    Again shuffling ... again throwing ... Again, the exploitation of only the Soviet legacy and nothing more. In addition to verbal PR.
    What is the use of this test? If the RD-171MV is just a modification of the old RD-170?
    Yes, there are excellent old, time-tested RD-170 and RD-180 engines. If there is a need - take and make a PH based on them! After all, the RD-170 will pull any PN, even to the Moon, playfully. Do the Atlas launch vehicles fly at 180? But no. Can not. Instead - some modifications, improvements to the engines ... Already under the "Soyuz-5", or under the "Yenisei" ...
    But this is again the road to a dead end. For once again disposability ...
    But the correct direction was expressed. The idea of ​​a fundamentally new Amur-LNG launch vehicle was put forward. This is where all the strength had to be thrown. All minds. All the money. Development of methane engines for RD-0162 / RD-0169 engines. To practice the return of the first stages of the LV. But ... they tested it on firing RD-0162D2A, and then everything died out ...
    But the meaning of the concept of reusability seems to have reached even Rogozin. The comrade understood how to save enormous funds on launches.
    But what is today? With the Amur-LNG launch vehicle?
    But nothing. In addition to the usual whining about the lack of funds, feeding breakfast, verbal PR in the constantly future tense in the style of "we will do ... we will construct ... we will test ... we will produce ... we will plug Musk on the rogue's belt ..."
    And it’s probably too late ... While Cupid will be taken (I still want to hope so) to the starting table, we will probably see Starship / SuperHeavy in the case. That at once will put all the points in the issue of the correct choice of the concept for the RN.
    1. Sling cutter
      Sling cutter 19 December 2020 11: 45
      +1
      Quote: Cosm22
      But the meaning of the concept of reusability seems to have reached even Rogozin. The comrade understood how to save enormous funds on launches.

      Colleague, thank you for your informative comment. hi
      Only the tasks of ragozin and all this shobla do not include saving state funds, but on the contrary, cutting them.
      They take an old Soviet engine, modernize it, pass it off as a new one, report back in the greatest emoticon and voila, saw the money for R&D, etc., and then awards, hype, speeches about the newest netanalagafwmir.
    2. Bar1
      Bar1 19 December 2020 11: 53
      -3
      Quote: Cosm22
      This is how we have already thought about the return of the steps. And not so long ago.

      "recently" is your 20 years, I'm talking about Baikal? Still have to think about 50 years?
      Regarding Rogozin, this philosopher in the position of the chief technical specialist of our space, as his tenure in this position has shown, is not capable of deciding ANYTHING for himself, what is let down to him, then he does.
      For example, what is the reason that 5 years have passed between the first and second launches of Angara6? They do not tell us, and even without them it is clear that they are expecting a team from there, but they are not interested in the development of Russia.
      1. iouris
        iouris 19 December 2020 12: 13
        +1
        Quote: Bar1
        about Rogozin, this philosopher

        There is no philosopher with that last name.
        1. Bar1
          Bar1 19 December 2020 12: 26
          -4
          Quote: iouris
          Quote: Bar1
          about Rogozin, this philosopher

          There is no philosopher with that last name.

          you don't know anything.
          1. Simargl
            Simargl 20 December 2020 18: 32
            0
            Quote: Bar1
            you don't know anything.
            Tell me.
            We know such a journalist.
            1. Bar1
              Bar1 20 December 2020 18: 43
              +1
              Quote: Simargl
              Tell me.
              We know such a journalist.

              Yes, at least look at the pedia.

              In 1996, at the Faculty of Philosophy of Moscow State University, he defended his dissertation for the degree of Candidate of Philosophy on the topic "The Russian Question and its Impact on National and International Security" (specialty 23.00.03 - "Political Culture and Ideology") [2]. In 1999, he also defended his thesis for the degree of Doctor of Philosophy on the topic "Problems of Russia's national security at the turn of the XXI century" (specialty 09.00.10 - "Philosophy of Politics and Law") [3].

              In 2016, he defended N.G. Gorky at the Naval Academy named after Admiral of the Fleet of the Soviet Union. Kuznetsov's dissertation for the degree of Doctor of Technical Sciences in the specialty "theory of weapons, military-technical policy, weapons system" [4] [5] [6]


              https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Рогозин,_Дмитрий_Олегович
              yes, both the Swiss and the reaper and the player on the pipe, roofing felts technical philosophers, roofing felts philosophical technician, choose yourself.
              1. Simargl
                Simargl 20 December 2020 20: 11
                +1
                Quote: Bar1
                choose yourself
                Yes, I already realized that in order to become a doctor of all kinds of sciences, it was necessary for a journalist to be uchiTsTs.
      2. Cosm22
        Cosm22 19 December 2020 12: 22
        -5
        I was not talking about Baikal, about the Amur. After all, the thoughts were correct. But in principle, even an idea with Baikal for the Angara would be nice. It doesn’t matter whether the first stage has a propulsion or UAV landing. If only to return the step. At least start with this.
        It is a pity that the money in the Republic of Kazakhstan goes anywhere, but not for the development of promising areas, which are the future of cosmonautics.
        The reason for the long interruption in the launches of the Angara, in my opinion, lies on the surface. It became clear after the RF Ministry of Defense refused to accept the product based on the results of the first flight.
        Most likely, the declared characteristics did not correspond to those revealed. Simply put, the first version of the Angara did not pull the required MO PN.
        Therefore, 6 years were brought to mind, tightened the characteristics to the passport. Whether it was possible to bring it is not clear. For there was no PN as such in the second flight, and the MO is silent.
        1. Boris Chernikov
          Boris Chernikov 19 December 2020 12: 25
          +3
          wink by the way, in the RK they calculated that the payback of the returned stage begins after the 48th start-up.
          1. Cosm22
            Cosm22 19 December 2020 12: 42
            -5
            Probably RK made this calculation while jumping on a trampoline?
            He confuses the concepts of "payback" with "cost" and "depreciation".
            If the first stage has completed 10 take-off-landing cycles, then only 10% of the stage's manufacturing cost is included in the launch cost. Plus, of course, the cost of inter-flight maintenance, but they are essentially scanty in comparison with the price of the entire product.
            1. Boris Chernikov
              Boris Chernikov 19 December 2020 17: 07
              0
              Well, ask MNII Agat, they made the calculations, but how do I understand that the whole institute is nothing compared to the opinion of the "topvar's expert"?
        2. Bar1
          Bar1 19 December 2020 12: 35
          +5
          Quote: Cosm22
          Simply put, the first version of the Angara did not pull the required MO PN.

          And what are the requirements for the Angara at the Moscow Region, please voice the entire list?
          He drags 25 tons to BUT, no worse than Proton, what else is needed?
          1. Cosm22
            Cosm22 19 December 2020 13: 03
            -5
            I voice them: I don't know them. And nobody knows. For they are not in the public domain. And the Ministry of Defense does not disclose them. The figure of 27,5 tons flashed, but so far, apparently, Angara is halfway even to the passport 24,5 tons.
            As for the data you voiced about 25 tons that the Angara allegedly drags, then you should not take everything written in Wiki for granted. Do not confuse paper passport data with real ones.
            I will repeat about the latter. Judging by the fact that the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation categorically refused to accept the product into operation after the first flight, its real characteristics turned out to be much worse in comparison with the declared passport ones. On what basis the Ministry of Defense made this conclusion - I do not know. For both in the first and in the second case, the launch vehicle was launched practically empty, without the launch vehicle. There was no way to test it with a full-fledged PN, with the 25 tons you voiced.
            Nevertheless, the Ministry of Defense abandoned it after the first launch. Silence after the second.
            I don't draw any conclusions. I'm just stating facts.
        3. slipped
          slipped 19 December 2020 16: 05
          +3
          Quote: Cosm22
          The reason for the long interruption in the launches of the Angara, in my opinion, lies on the surface. It became clear after the RF Ministry of Defense refused to accept the product based on the results of the first flight.


          You are wrong. The reason is the transfer of production to a new site.

          Quote: Cosm22
          Most likely, the declared characteristics did not correspond to those revealed. Simply put, the first version of the Angara did not pull the required MO PN.


          There are no first or second options. The A5 that took off the other day is exactly the same as in 2014. Its production technologies have improved.

          Quote: Cosm22
          Therefore, 6 years were brought to mind, tightened the characteristics to the passport. Whether it was possible to bring it is not clear. For there was no PN as such in the second flight, and the MO is silent.


          "Again fictions, rascal" © not mine lol The Ministry of Defense has already ordered 4 serial missiles for its launch vehicles.
          1. Cosm22
            Cosm22 19 December 2020 18: 10
            -2
            Oh!
            How without an opponent!
            1. There are actually three reasons.
            1.1. Interruptions in the work of GKNPTs them. M.V. Khrunichev due to the transfer of production from Moscow to Omsk.
            1.2. Unavailability of the Vostochny cosmodrome for the launch of the "Angara" (the reasons are known - constant construction defects and space theft, even 163 open criminal cases do not reduce appetites).
            1.3. Defense Ministry's unwillingness to accept RN. It was after the first start.
            2. Many sources really say that the second copy left without significant alterations. This speaks just not in favor of the Angara, but testifies, on the contrary, to big problems. For if the first launch vehicle had been met in the passport data, the military would have accepted it without further ado. But - it did not meet. The second, apparently, too. Remained with the same problems.
            3. MO ordered 4 items. But we don't know how this is done? In what cases does the military put a hand to the head with a gallant exclamation “Yes!
            The reason for the order given by the Kremlin to the Ministry of Defense to place the order is clear. After moving to Omsk, a certain part of production flew, technological chains were broken.
            Forced to spree "Proton-PM", KBKhA and VMZ. Almost 16000 people. Not just workers, but specialists, the veterans were dispersed. In Omsk itself, things were not going brilliantly either, no emergency regimes helped.
            With the aim, figuratively speaking, to support the pants and preserve the remaining personnel, the Russian leadership gave the order to the Ministry of Defense to make a preliminary order for the Angara. In advance. People had to be provided with at least some kind of work.
            Would any civilian company with the slightest independence make such a pre-order? An order for a launch vehicle that has never flown even with a half of the declared PN? Would she buy a pig in a poke?
            The question is rhetorical.
            1. slipped
              slipped 19 December 2020 18: 57
              +1
              Quote: Cosm22
              Oh! How can it be without an opponent!


              You flog a blizzard constantly. lol

              Quote: Cosm22
              1. There are actually three reasons.
              1.1. Interruptions in the work of GKNPTs them. M.V. Khrunichev due to the transfer of production from Moscow to Omsk.


              "Interruptions" began long before the transfer of production to Omsk.

              Quote: Cosm22
              1.2. Unavailability of the Vostochny cosmodrome for the launch of the "Angara" (the reasons are known - constant construction defects and space theft, even 163 open criminal cases do not reduce appetites).


              You are deliberately lying by confusing the construction of the "first stage" of the cosmodrome - the SC for the Soyuz-2 rocket, which was carried out by the contractors Spetsstroymontazh, which has already been disbanded, and TMK, which allowed the marriage and theft of money, with the construction of the "second stage" USK KRK Amur ", which has been successfully running the Kazan PSO for a year and a half.

              Quote: Cosm22
              1.3. Defense Ministry's unwillingness to accept RN. It was after the first start.


              You're lying again. Until last year, the Ministry of Defense used Proton-M missiles for its launches, the last launch on it through the Ministry of Defense was 06.08.2019/XNUMX/XNUMX. All of their new payloads are designed to be launched at the Angara.

              Quote: Cosm22
              2. Many sources really say that the second copy left without significant alterations. This speaks just not in favor of the Angara, but testifies, on the contrary, to big problems.


              Problems are on your head. laughing The saucepan is tight. As for the second test launch, it was completed 100% successfully and as the customer wanted.



              Quote: Cosm22
              For if the first launch vehicle had been met in the passport data, the military would have accepted it without further ado. But - it did not meet. The second, apparently, too. Remained with the same problems.


              No. This is a clinic. laughing Ale garage, four missiles were ordered by the Ministry of Defense in the amount of 18 billion rubles for launching their satellites.

              Quote: Cosm22
              3. MO ordered 4 items. But we don't know how this is done? In what cases does the military put a hand to the head with a gallant exclamation “Yes!


              "But we know that this island is uninhabited" © not mine laughing One continuous blah blah blah

              Quote: Cosm22
              With the aim, figuratively speaking, to support the pants and preserve the remaining personnel, the Russian leadership gave the order to the Ministry of Defense to make a preliminary order for the Angara. In advance. People had to be provided with at least some kind of work.


              An inventor. The military were already going to switch to a new carrier. You do not understand at all that ALL of their PNs are already calculated under the Angara?

              Quote: Cosm22
              An order for a launch vehicle that has never flown even with a half of the declared PN?


              Declared PN from Plesetsk - 2,4 tons for GSO. So much and brought out. With a new, non-commercial, Perseus upper stage, trials next year.
            2. Bar1
              Bar1 21 December 2020 10: 42
              +1
              Quote: Cosm22
              Forced to go on a spree "Proton-PM", KBKhA and VMZ. Almost 16000 people. Not just workers, but specialists, the veterans were dispersed.

              those. The Perm plant, which made the RD276 engines, did the same rest in Bose after the adoption of this Angara?
              But the main characteristics of the RD276 and RD191 engines are not at all in favor of the RD191.
              -RD191 TTX
              - traction-196 tons
              -specific impulse-311s
              - product weight - 2300kg
              -working time-270s

              RD276
              - traction-186 tons
              -specific impulse-288s
              - product weight - 1070kg
              - operating time -120 s?
              those. we see that RD276 is slightly worse than RD191, but it is TWO times lighter and RD276 is also NON-CRYOGENIC, heptyl boils at 63 degrees. celsius, and this is a sharp decrease in the cost of manufacturing, transporting and storing fuel, you do not need expensive cryogenic terrestrial equipment.
              Those. There are no special advantages of the Angara over the Proton. Once again I am convinced that the creation of the Angara is a step back and just an adventure of the Kremlin politicians who abandon everything Soviet, so that people forget about the advantages of the Soviet system and the achievements of that time.
              I would like the comparison commented on by a missile specialist.
          2. military_cat
            military_cat 19 December 2020 20: 44
            -2
            Quote: slipped
            Quote: Cosm22
            Most likely, the declared characteristics did not correspond to those revealed. Simply put, the first version of the Angara did not pull the required MO PN.


            There are no first or second options. The A5 that took off the other day is exactly the same as in 2014. Its production technologies have improved.


            MOSCOW, October 8. / TASS /. The Angara-A5 heavy launch vehicle during its first test launch in 2014 did not confirm the requirements - the mass of the withdrawn payload was less than the required one. About this the head of Roscosmos Dmitry Rogozin told in an interview with Andrei Vandenko in the framework of the TASS special project "First Persons".

            "In 2014, the heavy Angara-A5 flew, but this test did not confirm the customer's requirements. The withdrawn mass turned out to be lower than necessary," he said Rogozin.

            According to him, it was required to completely rework design the documentation.
            1. slipped
              slipped 19 December 2020 20: 53
              +4
              Quote: military_cat
              The Angara-A5 heavy launch vehicle during the first test launch in 2014 did not confirm the requirements - the mass of the withdrawn payload turned out to be less than the required one.


              Then, in 2014, the main engine weighing two tons was withdrawn. Now, in 2020, there is almost two and a half, as ordered.

              Quote: military_cat
              According to him, it was required to completely rework design documentation. [/ i]


              New production. Other assembly technologies. Cheaper and easier. Therefore, the production cost has decreased. And with the introduction of new machines for serial welding, it will be even easier. And the transfer of the full assembly cycle to a new site is not far off.





              1. military_cat
                military_cat 20 December 2020 09: 11
                -2
                Why didn't they make the model 2014 kg heavier in 400 so that it could satisfy the customer's requirements?
                1. slipped
                  slipped 20 December 2020 22: 52
                  +2
                  Quote: military_cat
                  Why didn't they make the model 2014 kg heavier in 400 so that it could satisfy the customer's requirements?


                  Honestly, I don’t know, but I think that we were just reinsured. It was required to confirm the correctness of the adopted decisions of the system as a whole. And the launch of a heavy rocket from the northern Plesetsk is a completely new word in our cosmonautics. As a result, it turned out that the base A5 takes 23 tons from there to LEO and 2,4 tons to GSO, which is generally the minimum for promising spacecraft, therefore, they carried out the subsequent modernization of the first stage engine, and also made a new upper stage and switch to the use of cryogenic technologies.

                  But it will take 24,5 tons from Vostochny, but by 2024 the A5M will take off, and there will be 27 tons. It differs from the base A5 not only in the presence of a modernized engine, but also in greater unification between the modules, which will further reduce its cost.
    3. Boris Chernikov
      Boris Chernikov 19 December 2020 12: 21
      +2
      everything is simple ... when they started to raise the lunar theme, they first suggested your approach: to develop new rockets, new engines and go ahead ... and then they calculated that new rockets needed new stands, they also needed a new super-heavy cargo plane and it turned out that the price the lunar program to start exploring the Moon, even without the cost of producing rockets, but only in their development has a price of 1,5 trillion rubles ... 700 billion rubles
      1. Albert1988
        Albert1988 20 December 2020 16: 21
        +1
        Quote: Boris Chernikov
        everything is simple .. when they started to raise the lunar theme, they first suggested your approach: develop new rockets, new engines and go ahead .. and then they calculated that new rockets needed new stands

        I will add a little - the Americans sculpt their SLS from everything "old" that is left of the shuttles and other programs, Musk also sculpted his own from old developments, no one is ashamed ...
        Only Russia, which is the only recognized and full-fledged legal successor of the USSR in the world, should instead of the normal practice of modernization and the gradual development of the existing groundwork, reinvent the wheel from scratch just to prove something to someone ...
    4. Heet
      Heet 19 December 2020 12: 55
      +7
      Quote: Cosm22
      What is the use of this test? If the RD-171MV is just a modification of the old RD-170?

      Are you an expert in rocket science to talk about the sense of testing and the need for modifications? How did you determine that the RD-170 is already an old man, not by the time of creation?

      Quote: Cosm22
      But what is today? With the Amur-LNG launch vehicle?

      What's with her? Work is in progress on the draft design. Separate elements of the methane engine for it have been tested; next year, the RD-0169 demonstrator is to undergo firing tests.
      1. Cosm22
        Cosm22 19 December 2020 14: 00
        -5
        1. If you carefully read my comments, you could not ignore the epithets "excellent" and "time-tested" in relation to the RD-170 as well. Do you understand the essence of the concepts of these adjectives? The time when the engines were created has nothing to do with their functionality. On the contrary, I am asking the question: why are they not being used? As for modifications, you can modify endlessly. On one condition - you need to correctly indicate the direction of movement and priorities. You think, apparently, that the future belongs to disposable media. I think otherwise. Time will judge us.
        2. Goes. That's what I'm talking about. About endless breakfasts, shifts to the right and future tense.
        And also that money in Kazakhstan is used irrationally. If the RD-171MV is already on the firing ones, and it does not smell of methane engines after the first burns.
        1. Heet
          Heet 19 December 2020 16: 07
          +3
          On the basis of what your fantasies did you decide that I am for disposable or reusable?

          Quote: Cosm22
          I ask the question: why are they not used?

          Soyuz-5 is being created on the engine of the RD-170 family, and you know this, this is not a use?


          Quote: Cosm22
          As for modifications, you can modify endlessly.

          Those products are modernized whose characteristics meet modern requirements. They modernize products to increase some indicators, use new materials, for modern production technologies and reduce the cost of a product, do you understand the meaning of these words?

          Quote: Cosm22
          It goes. That's what I'm talking about. About endless breakfasts, shifts to the right and future tense.

          What are the endless breakfasts under the Soyuz-LNG program now?

          Quote: Cosm22
          If the RD-171MV is already on the firing ones, and it does not smell of methane engines after the first burns.

          Work on RD-171MV began in 2017, when did work on RD-0177 (RD-0169) begin?
    5. slipped
      slipped 19 December 2020 15: 58
      +5
      Quote: Cosm22
      However, what is today?


      And today FPI with Myasishchev are making an ultralight carrier "Wing-SV"

      And the Progress RCC designs Amur-LNG, the engines for which are made by KBKhA.

      Quote: Cosm22
      Again, the exploitation of only the Soviet legacy and nothing more. In addition to verbal PR.


      Well, well. laughing Here are just the AXIS of the new engine passed real.



      Quote: Cosm22
      What is the use of this test? If the RD-171MV is just a modification of the old RD-170?


      Very good cheap modification.

      Quote: Cosm22
      Yes, there are excellent old, time-tested RD-170 and RD-180 engines. If there is a need - take and make a PH based on them!


      Strange, fix the pot. laughing , just the RD-171MV is the engine of the first stage of the launch vehicle. laughing The same applies to the recently designed RD-180MV.

      Quote: Cosm22
      After all, the RD-170 will pull any PN, even to the Moon playfully.


      RD-170 is an engine from the Energia launch vehicle parablock. Will not pull. The entire "Energia" launch vehicle is needed for this.

      Quote: Cosm22
      Do the Atlas launch vehicles fly at 180?
      But no. Can not. Instead - some modifications, engine improvements ... Already under the "Soyuz-5", or under the "Yenisei" ...


      RD-180 is an old engine. RD-180MV - new, cheaper and more powerful.

      Quote: Cosm22
      For once again disposability ...


      Old songs about the main thing? laughing

      Quote: Cosm22
      But the correct direction was expressed. The idea of ​​a fundamentally new "Amur-LNG" launch vehicle was put forward. This is where all the strength had to be thrown. All minds. All the money. Development of methane engines for RD-0162 / RD-0169 engines. To practice the return of the first stages of the LV. But ... they tested it on firing RD-0162D2A, and then everything died out ...


      Soyuz-5 and Amur-LNG are different missiles for different payloads.

      RD-0162D2A burned and disassembled for fault detection and study. laughing



      And RD-0169 - they are doing it now. More precisely, they make RD-0177 for the OSI.

      Quote: Cosm22
      But the meaning of the concept of reusability seems to have reached even Rogozin. The comrade understood how to save enormous funds on launches.


      Are you saving on condoms too? laughing Well, you’re a freelancer.

      Quote: Cosm22
      But what is today? With the Amur-LNG launch vehicle?


      They are designing. Recently, the STC was on a carrier.
    6. U-58
      U-58 19 December 2020 17: 15
      +1
      RD-170/171 / 171MV are the floors of one tree.
      But each is specialized for a specific carrier. And accordingly they differ constructively. And they are NOT interchangeable. So you need to imagine what you are writing about.
  • Bad_gr
    Bad_gr 19 December 2020 12: 45
    +2
    Once it was planned to transfer manned spacecraft from Soyuz to Zenit. Interestingly, now there are such plans in relation to the "Soyuz-5" (the transition to it manned flights)?
    1. slipped
      slipped 19 December 2020 16: 12
      +4
      Quote: Bad_gr
      Once it was planned to transfer manned spacecraft from Soyuz to Zenit. Interestingly, now there are such plans in relation to the "Soyuz-5" (the transition to it manned flights)?


      At the moment, there are no manned flights to the Soyuz-5. But ... the design of the Eagle ship, lightened up to 16 tons, began. In principle, Soyuz-5 will be able to withdraw such a payload. If the same Kazakhstan needs it.
      1. Bad_gr
        Bad_gr 19 December 2020 18: 10
        +1
        Quote: slipped
        .... there are no manned flights on the Soyuz-5. But ... the design of the Eagle ship, lightened up to 16 tons, began. In principle, Soyuz-5 will be able to withdraw such a payload.

        Clear. It's a pity that they don't want to make a workhorse out of it for astronauts. sad
        1. slipped
          slipped 19 December 2020 19: 16
          +3
          Quote: Bad_gr
          Clear. It's a pity that they don't want to make a workhorse out of it for astronauts. sad


          The PTK NP will be launched in a nominal weight of 21 tons at the Angara-A5P in December 2023 and starting from 2027 at the A5B in a lightweight form.

          As for the manned Soyuz-5, everything is possible, the desire of the joint venture partners is needed.
          1. Bad_gr
            Bad_gr 19 December 2020 19: 22
            +1
            Quote: slipped
            The PTK NP will be launched in a nominal weight of 21 tons at the Angara-A5P in December 2023 and starting from 2027 at the A5B in a lightweight form.

            Thanks for the information.
    2. U-58
      U-58 19 December 2020 17: 35
      -3
      These plans were announced a hundred times.
      Here the trouble is in the personalities of the Chief on skeet.
      He is all worn with his Hangara like [USN] with candy wrappers. Already twice Borisov pulled him back, after which work on Union-5 intensified.
      The other day, another statement of the main trampoline was announced that on Lunud we will fly not on the Irtysh, but on the Angara.
      And it is too early to design the Irtysh. They say it is necessary to introduce and master "new technologies", and only after ...
      So the third shout of the Deputy Prime Minister will soon follow ...
      1. slipped
        slipped 20 December 2020 01: 01
        +3
        Quote: U-58
        Already twice Borisov pulled him back, after which work on Union-5 intensified.


        Some kind of garbage. What does Borisov and Soyuz-5 have to do with it? Soyuz-5 is a missile for the Baiterek complex.

        Quote: U-58
        The other day, another statement of the main trampoline was announced that on Lunud we will fly not on the Irtysh, but on the Angara.


        Have you collapsed from an oak tree? Never none did not declare that we are going to fly to the Moon using the Soyuz-5 launch vehicle. From the very beginning, the NP PTK was planned to be launched at the Angara. In the version of a heavy ship for testing at LEO. Now in a lightweight version - for a flight to the moon on the A5B.



        Quote: U-58
        And it is too early to design the Irtysh. They say it is necessary to introduce and master "new technologies", and only after ...
        So the third shout of the Deputy Prime Minister will soon follow ...


        Which one to design? there everything has been designed for a long time and is already doing iron. Where are you such dunno with personal IMHO come from? laughing
        1. U-58
          U-58 20 December 2020 06: 50
          -1
          And you do not find anything in common between Soyuz-5 and the Irtysh? Well, at least in the basis ...
          The words of Major Zhirnov, spoken back in 1981, will go down in history.
          "With our system of indexing military equipment, we are misleading not only the enemy, but also ourselves."
          And, I'm ashamed to ask, what kind of hardware are you writing about, which they do? Is it about the engine or about the "carrot"? I won't even ask about "where"
          1. slipped
            slipped 20 December 2020 22: 37
            +1
            Quote: U-58
            And you do not find anything in common between Soyuz-5 and the Irtysh? Well, at least in the basis ...


            The name "Irtysh" was invented by journalists for the "Soyuz-5" rocket, which itself was developed according to the "Phoenix" design and development project laughing , then picked up the military acceptance of the enterprise and even Rogozin liked it, though later this name was deleted from the technical specification. But all the same, the name of the Irtysh rocket continues to circulate in the media.

            The launch vehicle is now called Soyuz-5. Maybe after the first launch they will call it "Irtysh", but maybe not. The Kazakhs want to call it "Sunkar". laughing

            Quote: U-58
            And, I'm ashamed to ask, what kind of hardware are you writing about, which they do? Is it about the engine or about the "carrot"? I won't even ask about "where"


            I have already written here - the mock-ups of both engines are ready, in addition, the first stage engine for firing bench tests, which is reported in the article, has been made, as well as a dynamic mock-up of the first stage for testing assembled with the engine. After the installation of new welding equipment from Sespel, welding of the tanks of the aircraft will begin. At the same time, the first and second stages will be run at the NRC RCP. And the Kazakhs must reconstruct the 45th site. Launch of the first product in 2023, tentatively in autumn or winter.
            1. U-58
              U-58 21 December 2020 07: 13
              0
              1. The engine has ALREADY passed the OI.
              2. The name "Irtysh" is not left-handed, because someone there decided to give names to carriers after the names of the great Russian rivers.
              Your infa is from newspapers, but not from enterprises ...
              1. slipped
                slipped 21 December 2020 13: 56
                0
                Quote: U-58
                1. The engine has ALREADY passed the OI.


                so post about it

                Quote: U-58
                2. The name "Irtysh" is not left-handed, because someone there decided to give names to carriers after the names of the great Russian rivers.
                Your infa is from newspapers, but not from enterprises ...


                For the slow-witted, I will repeat - the rocket is called Soyuz-5. https://www.samspace.ru/products/launch_vehicles/rn_soyuz5/
  • Boris Chernikov
    Boris Chernikov 19 December 2020 10: 14
    0
    these engines should be included in, if I am not mistaken, the second stage of the rocket for the flight of our cosmonauts to the moon
    1. slipped
      slipped 19 December 2020 16: 15
      +5
      Quote: Boris Chernikov
      these engines should be included in, if I am not mistaken, the second stage of the rocket for the flight of our cosmonauts to the moon


      If you are talking about the RD-171MV, then this is the engine of the first and second stages of STK "Yenisei".
      1. Boris Chernikov
        Boris Chernikov 19 December 2020 17: 08
        -1
        about her dear ... as I read, in general, they decided to assemble a rocket from several engines from different projects to reduce the cost of the project and have launch statistics
        1. slipped
          slipped 19 December 2020 17: 12
          +3
          Quote: Boris Chernikov
          about her dear ... as I read, in general, they decided to assemble a rocket from several engines from different projects to reduce the cost of the project and have launch statistics


          Everything is not so simple there, the project is now going through the technical design stage.

          According to the terms of reference, the space rocket complex should include six oxygen-kerosene rocket units with RD-171MV engines - the first stages of Soyuz-5 rockets and a central oxygen-kerosene rocket unit with an RD-180MV engine - the first stage “Soyuz-6”. In addition, it should have an oxygen-kerosene accelerating-braking unit based on two 11D58M liquid-propellant rocket engines.
  • Insurgent
    Insurgent 19 December 2020 08: 07
    +1
    thrust with a mass of 10 tons exceeds 800 tons


    By amateurish naivety, he assumed that rocket engines have a significantly lower own weight. And then 10 tons ... Opening, for me personally. Weighty yes
    1. U-58
      U-58 19 December 2020 08: 55
      +4
      And what a uveststy man! There are only components such that you cannot lift without a tap.
      Therefore, making them is still a job. Yes, so as not to bang on something, not to hammer, and not to damage the machine ... In fact, new technological equipment is needed.
      So the price of this victory is very high
  • Mavrikiy
    Mavrikiy 19 December 2020 08: 27
    -2
    the world's most powerful liquid propellant rocket engine
    If it is the most powerful among liquid-propellant rocket engines, it also surpasses solid-fuel turbojet engines. Rogozin could write more modestly: "the world's most powerful rocket engine" repeat
    1. Blackmokona
      Blackmokona 19 December 2020 10: 36
      0
      No, solid fuels are more powerful. SRB Shuttle is one and a half times more powerful.
      Each booster has a launch thrust (at sea level) of 14,68 MN [1] (which is 1,8 times more than the thrust of the F-1 engine used in the Saturn-5 rocket for flights to the moon and 1,5 times more, than the most powerful rocket engine ever created on liquid propellants - RD-170).
  • Ros 56
    Ros 56 19 December 2020 08: 28
    +2
    Hopefully these striped ones won't sell?
    1. tralflot1832
      tralflot1832 19 December 2020 08: 32
      +6
      On the geostationary station, that the American heavy fire will do, but it's better to let Musk get by.
    2. U-58
      U-58 19 December 2020 08: 57
      +2
      And they do not pretend. Moreover, after 30 years of stagnation, they have seen a noticeable progress in engine building.
  • avaks111
    avaks111 19 December 2020 08: 32
    +1
    Khrunichev's "Angara" is already flying, and Energiev's "Soyuz-5" is only in sketches!
    1. times
      times 19 December 2020 08: 57
      +18
      Quote: avaks111
      Khrunichev's "Angara" is already flying, and Energiev's "Soyuz-5" is only in sketches

      Well, when they began to design the Angara, there was still no need to recreate the Zenith completely Russian. At that time, cooperation between Russia and Ukraine was still working. Therefore, Angara has a head start in time.
    2. U-58
      U-58 19 December 2020 08: 58
      +3
      Well, yes, it is. The sketches of the Angara were born in 1991.
      And the Irtysh has been working on processing Zenit "just yet" since 2016.
      1. slipped
        slipped 19 December 2020 16: 16
        +2
        Quote: U-58
        Well, yes, it is. The sketches of the Angara were born in 1991.
        And the Irtysh has been working on processing Zenit "just yet" since 2016.


        Since the year 2018.
    3. slipped
      slipped 19 December 2020 16: 16
      +3
      Quote: avaks111
      Khrunichev's "Angara" is already flying, and Energiev's "Soyuz-5" is only in sketches!


      No. A dynamic layout of the first stage for testing has already been made. A mockup of the second stage engine has already been made for testing.
      1. Bad_gr
        Bad_gr 19 December 2020 18: 32
        0
        Quote: slipped
        dynamic layout of the first stage for testing.

        Is the appearance of this layout a secret? If not, I would like to see.
        1. slipped
          slipped 19 December 2020 19: 07
          +1
          Quote: Bad_gr
          Is the appearance of this layout a secret? If not, I would like to see.


          But there is no photo laughing Here, with difficulty, a photo of the RD-171MV was posted one (!) Before the tests. Maybe when they take the step in February to TsNIIMash for stretching, which will be shown. But with the cooking of the second-stage tanks, they are late, in January they will bring a model RD-0124MS, and there is still nothing to put it on. But these are purely production issues.
          1. Bad_gr
            Bad_gr 19 December 2020 19: 18
            0
            Quote: slipped
            But there is no photo

            And in words, the same as "Zenith" or are there noticeable differences?
            According to drawings, straight, copy, but then drawings ... And the model is already close to the original.
            1. slipped
              slipped 19 December 2020 19: 23
              +2
              Quote: Bad_gr
              And in words, the same as "Zenith" or are there noticeable differences?


              The diameter of the tanks is 4,1 meters, which is thicker than that of the "Zenith" (3,9). And the length is a little longer. Above-caliber GO is planned - with a diameter of 5,2 meters, although at the beginning it will be 4,11.
  • Narak-zempo
    Narak-zempo 19 December 2020 09: 42
    -10%
    Roskosmos has once again postponed the delivery of the draft design of the new Russian missile system Soyuz-5 for eight months ... The reason for the postponement is the lack of funds.

    Yes, what such huge funds are needed to complete draft design? There are drawers, there are pencils, there are engineers - just masks and "Doshirak" to the design bureau.
    1. slipped
      slipped 19 December 2020 16: 20
      +4
      Quote: Narak-zempo
      Roskosmos has once again postponed the delivery of the draft design of the new Russian missile system Soyuz-5 for eight months ... The reason for the postponement is the lack of funds.

      Yes, what such huge funds are needed to complete draft design? There are drawers, there are pencils, there are engineers - just masks and "Doshirak" to the design bureau.


      The article contains incomplete information that confuses the reader. This refers to the electronic signature on the KKK. Kazakhstan has delayed the decision to reconstruct its launch complex at the 45th site of Baikonur, from where it is planned to launch Soyuz 5. Accordingly, the work on the complex has moved forward more than six months.
  • tralflot1832
    tralflot1832 19 December 2020 10: 18
    +3
    They write $ 59-65 million for the launch and the mass of the withdrawn cargo is from 17 to 2,5 tons, depending on the orbit, and they predict that Sea Launch will be used.
    1. slipped
      slipped 19 December 2020 16: 24
      +5
      Quote: tralflot1832
      They write $ 59-65 million for the launch and the mass of the withdrawn cargo is from 17 to 2,5 tons, depending on the orbit, and they predict that Sea Launch will be used.


      Soyuz-5 is a medium-sized rocket. It brings the most popular satellites up to 6 tons in weight into a geo-transfer orbit, from where they go to the geostationary on their own.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Dzafdet
    Dzafdet 19 December 2020 21: 20
    -2
    Even the Australians came up with the idea to return the step by parachute. But for Roscosmos this is not available ...
    1. slipped
      slipped 20 December 2020 01: 20
      +2
      Quote: Dzafdet
      Even the Australians came up with the idea to return the step by parachute. But for Roscosmos this is not available ...


      First, we must distinguish between the weight of an ultralight stage and the weight of a middle class rocket stage. laughing

      Secondly - you know why on the parablocks of the Energia launch vehicle such structures, similar to cabinets, were hung from above?



      The diagram shows that these are parachute containers, as well as for the chassis. Then, with that level of technology, it was not possible to fully implement the idea. Now we have a wonderful concern "Technodinamika", which, using modern parachute construction technologies and its multi-dome systems, is ready to provide an opportunity for a safe landing of a stage. It's up to a specific order. If it is profitable.



      And the RD-171MV engine itself is reusable.