Russian exodus as a result of the civil war

Until now, historians argue about which date should be considered the end of the civil war in Russia. Some propose to consider as such a date November 15, 1922, when the Far Eastern Republic that existed at that time became part of the RSFSR. Others believe that the end of the civil war may correspond to the Russian exodus - the mass exodus from Russia of representatives of the "white" elite, which would later be called "white emigration." This happened in the late autumn of 1920, when units of the Southern Front of the Red Army under the command of Mikhail Frunze entered the Crimea.

On November 11, 1920, Frunze indirectly turned to General Wrangel, noting the need to end resistance. The radio station transmitted the words of the red commander, who guaranteed amnesty to all those who refused to fight against the Red Army. At the same time, Wrangel, as reported historical documents, proposals not only did not accept, but also banned the operation of radio stations, from which the soldiers of the White Army could learn about Frunze's statement.

A real drama was played out in the country, which is an integral part of virtually any civil war. Part of the country's population left their homeland, many in an outright haste, trying to get on the steamers that sailed to Turkey. At that time, many passenger ships were sailing from Crimea towards Constantinople, occupied by the Entente troops, as well as towards Greece. Then those wishing to leave Russia only on the Crimean direction were counted fifty thousand a day.

The channel "White City" tells the details of how the exodus of tens of thousands of Russians took place, as well as how people who emigrated from Soviet Russia lived in the first periods of their emigration abroad.

Chronicles of the Russian exodus:

Comments

[Far B]

Russian exodus as a result of the civil war

It's strange. I always thought that the result of the Civil War was the establishment of Soviet power in Russia. And it’s over there, it turns out ...

mass departure from Russia of representatives of the "white" elite

Was there really an "elite" there? Or maybe the elite are just those who stayed (or returned, like Slashchev) to serve their homeland?
And if "elite" No. is those who sailed from the Crimea, then what should you call those who dumped over the hill since 1918? it turns out they are not the "elite"? (although I, in fact, do not care, but the question arises by itself).
No, it's hard to argue - a page in the country's history is very tragic. But before the first wave of emigration there was "zero", even under the tsar, and after - the second and third. Russia has lost a lot in each of these waves. As for the white "elite", they chose their own cross.

[Aerodrome]

Quote: Dalny V

Was there really an "elite" there? Or maybe the elite are just those who stayed (or returned, like Slashchev) to serve their homeland?

the concept of "elite" takes on the most perverted forms over time ... before, "elite" was county and princes, later - professors and doctors, now "elite" - jokes and buffoons with holy fools ... ".

[Far B]

In fact of the matter. They devalued the word, made a label out of it, now they hang it on anyone.
For me personally, the elite were, are and will always be, say, the Komsomol members who went on the Komsomol call to build BAM / Dukat / Luchegorsk. Those who hibernated in tents and did not whine at the same time. The elite are people who have plowed all their lives (as a scientist, doctor, miner, milkmaid - no difference) for the good of the country and the people. True, such an elite has not been held in high esteem for more than thirty years, unfortunately.

[bober1982]

Quote: Dalny V

For me personally, the elite were, are and will always be, say, the Komsomol members who went on the Komsomol call to build the BAM

The Soviet elite are representatives of the Komsomol and party nomenklatura, football players and hockey players, heads of shops and warehouses, all kinds of laughters and pop singing performers, speculators and blackmailing and others.
The categories of citizens you mentioned, as representatives of the Soviet elite, only acted as extras, they had to hunchback - for handouts, badges and certificates of honor, at great construction sites.

[aybolyt678]

Quote: bober1982

The Soviet elite are representatives of the Komsomol and party nomenklatura, football and hockey players, heads of shops and warehouses

are you talking about the hidden bourgeoisie? Elite in this case is written in quotation marks. Like Napoleon cognac. The word Elite without quotes implies an example of how to live and die.

[bober1982]

Quote: aybolyt678

The word Elite without quotes implies

Shoe department commodity expert is like a simple engineer! A. Raikin

[Andrei Nikolaevich]

what are the times, such is the "elite
I'm afraid you are right. But I really hope for natural selection, stories. I don't want to whine and lament, they say, look at the TV and media screens .. But in the end, the "national elite" will remain in the history of the state, and those "characters" that we see in the media will fall into oblivion of society.

[Private89]

Yes, these are my uncles!

[Sling cutter]

Quote: Dalny V

As for the white "elite", they chose their own cross.

To be honest, many who fled were real bloodsuckers and flayers.
How many people hanged and shot, for example Denikin. And Krasnov did go into the service of Hitler.
So, all this emigre trash is the enemies of the people!

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: Stroporez

So all this emigrant trash is the enemy of the people

In fairness: not all trash and not all enemies of the people.

[Sling cutter]

Quote: Vladimir_2U

In fairness: not all trash and not all enemies of the people.

In fairness, I agree

[Crowe]

the massive departure from Russia of representatives of the "white" elite,

They threw this "elite" from the neck of the people, and a tablecloth dear to all these bloodsuckers and crystal bakers in Landons and Paris. It is proposed to feel sorry for them now, is it? So not sorry. From the word at all.

[Professor]

It is right. Why is this lousy intelligentsia, dissenting, enterprising? Why all sorts of Sikorsk? Don't pity them. On the other hand, maybe they would teach you that the word "absolutely" in your comment should be written in quotation marks.

[Crowe]

Quote: professor

intellectuals, dissenting, enterprising

Yes, even without you the listed categories of the white "elite" in the country, electrification and industrialization were carried out, can you imagine ...!? And Mil was found on Sikorsky in Russia. It's also strange, isn't it? ) son, not from the counts with princes and landowners came from ..

[mat-vey]

Quote: Crowe

And Mil was found on Sikorsky in Russia.

Well, it's more like Kamov. Although the swashplate was invented by Yuryev (Zhukovsky's office) back in 1911, and what is characteristic - he stayed in the USSR and taught and did a lot.

[Professor]

Quote: Crowe

Yes, here and without you the listed categories of the white "elite" in the country carried out electrification with industrialization, can you imagine ..!?

Industrialization was carried out by bringing in American factories and American specialists. Theirs fled to America a decade earlier. Only now the scoop could not reach the pace of construction of railways under the tsar. Never.

Quote: Crowe

And Mil was found on Sikorsky in Russia. It's also strange, isn't it?

1. Mil did not catch up with Sikorsky.
2. Mil was not Russian at all.

Quote: Crowe

It's also strange, isn't it? After all, he was not a professor's son (this is not about you, as you yourself understand), he did not come from a county with princes and landlords.

Not weird. The belts were pulled to the people and money was thrown into the aviation.

[mat-vey]

Quote: professor

Industrialization was carried out by bringing in American factories and American specialists.

What prevented the outgoing “elite” from doing this? Better civil war than industrialization?
And Sikorsky means a native hare ...

[Professor]

Quote: mat-vey

Quote: professor

Industrialization was carried out by bringing in American factories and American specialists.

What prevented the outgoing “elite” from doing this? Better civil war than industrialization?
And Sikorsky means a native hare ...

Duc and did. So many railways were built that neither Dzhugashvili nor Brezhenev dreamed of.

Sikorsky is still Russian, not a Jew.

[mat-vey]

Quote: professor

Sikorsky is still Russian, not a Jew

Do you know how many nations there are on Earth besides Russians and Jews? Or do you have only three? Russian, not Russian and Jew?

Quote: professor

So many railways have been built

Either Kaganovich had to rebuild them all ... by the way, he was a Jew. Although most of the roads were built on French money and for their interest, but here they rebuilt and for real industrialization.

[Professor]

Quote: mat-vey

Do you know how many nations there are on Earth besides Russians and Jews? Or do you have only three? Russian, not Russian and Jew?

It is known, but Sikorsky was Russian, and Mil was a Jew. They are not to blame for this. It happened.

Quote: mat-vey

Either Kaganovich had to rebuild them all ... by the way, he was a Jew. Although most of the roads were built on French money and for their interest, but here they rebuilt and for real industrialization.

All right? The railway from St. Petersburg to Yerevan was built under the tsar, almost in its present form. Rebuilt a little with electrification. Transib is generally an engineering miracle.

[mat-vey]

The surname Sikorsky originates from the nickname Sikora. Sikora's nickname is of Ukrainian origin and means "horse-tit". - you find fault with us to quotes?

Quote: professor

Transib is generally an engineering miracle.

Which of the single-track Kaganovich had to rebuild for more than one year into a two-track (like many others), otherwise the goods would have gone for months, although there was enough before ... and then some kind of industrialization with its many times increased volumes. Or without teachers, this is probably just stupidity they did it.

[Professor]

Quote: mat-vey

The surname Sikorsky originates from the nickname Sikora. Sikora's nickname is of Ukrainian origin and means "horse-tit". - you find fault with us to quotes?

And Sikorsky was Russian.

Quote: mat-vey

Which of the single-track Kaganovich had to rebuild for more than one year into a two-track (like many others), otherwise the goods would have gone for months, although there was enough before ... and then some kind of industrialization with its many times increased volumes. Or without teachers, this is probably just stupidity they did it.

Kaganovich did not cope with the task. They coped with the tsar, but not with the advice.

[mat-vey]

Quote: professor

Kaganovich did not cope with the task. They coped with the tsar, but not with the advice.

Did the NKVD report this to you?

Quote: professor

And Sikorsky was Russian.

And what does this affect? ​​Krasnov was also Russian.

[Professor]

Quote: mat-vey

Did the NKVD report this to you?

No. The Trans-Siberian was built during the reign of the tsar, and during the reign of Koganovich, the dhukhkoleika was not built throughout the entire Trans-Siberian. Koganovich failed. And the GULAG with free labor did not help. But there was no need to expel specialists abroad.

Quote: mat-vey

And what does this affect? ​​Krasnov was also Russian.

No matter what. But the fact is that the Russian Sikorsky did not create his helicopters in Russia. Who lost from this?

[mat-vey]

"The basis of the USSR railway transport was a network of main-line railways, along which most of the goods were transported. Their total length, during the existence of the USSR, doubled from 2 to 72 thousand kilometers, increasing with an average increase of about 147 kilometers per year.
In addition to the construction of new lines, during the Soviet period, technical upgrades of tracks and rolling stock were made. All important highways were made double-track, the tracks were reinforced with the transition to heavy rails and concrete sleepers, "

Quote: professor

But the fact is that the Russian Sikorsky did not create his helicopters in Russia. Who lost from this?

And in the USSR, then, at that time, they were not engaged in helicopters?

[Professor]

Quote: mat-vey

"The basis of the USSR railway transport was a network of main-line railways, along which most of the goods were transported. Their total length, during the existence of the USSR, doubled from 2 to 72 thousand kilometers, increasing with an average increase of about 147 kilometers per year.
In addition to the construction of new lines, during the Soviet period, technical upgrades of tracks and rolling stock were made. All important highways were made double-track, the tracks were reinforced with the transition to heavy rails and concrete sleepers, "

Well? in terms of the pace of construction of railways, the USSR could not catch up with tsarist Russia.

Quote: mat-vey

And in the USSR, then, at that time, they were not engaged in helicopters?

I also create a perpetual motion machine, but the result is important.

Quote: mat-vey

And a counter question - no commies, the "elite" did not run away, and who lost that Pentkovsky processors were not created in Russia?

The country from which they drain is suffering from the brain drain. That's what I mean.

[mat-vey]

Quote: professor

I also create a perpetual motion machine, but the result is important.

So the "results" were already flying in the 30s, but it was not entirely clear where to adapt them. And they flew among the Germans and were not very popular either.

Quote: professor

The country from which they drain is suffering from the brain drain. That's what I mean.

The leak from that time is greatly exaggerated, that's what I mean.

[Professor]

Quote: mat-vey

So the "results" were already flying in the 30s, but it was not entirely clear where to adapt them. And they flew among the Germans and were not very popular either.

And I got the same result. The perpetual motion machine is almost running. By the way, Sikorsky's helicopter turned out to be such that they immediately found use for it.

Quote: mat-vey

The leak from that time is greatly exaggerated, that's what I mean.

On the contrary. She is greatly underestimated.

[mat-vey]

Quote: professor

On the contrary. She is greatly underestimated.

On the basis of what works do you draw conclusions? On the fact that a couple of illiterate Tajiks were caught from the mountain villages? At least they knew how to count money and could read their surname and sign, but RI was no longer considered illiteracy.

[Professor]

Quote: mat-vey

Quote: professor

On the contrary. She is greatly underestimated.

On the basis of what works do you draw conclusions? On the fact that a couple of illiterate Tajiks were caught from the mountain villages? At least they knew how to count money and could read their surname and sign, but RI was no longer considered illiteracy.

This is me about the brain drain.

Quote: mat-vey

Quote: professor

By the way, Sikorsky's helicopter turned out to be such that they immediately found use for it.

Mil's helicopter, which immediately found application, turned out a little later ... And the subsequent ones were not equal for a long time ... Although there are still no places like MI-26 and MI-12.

Or maybe these are niche helicopters and others simply don't need it?

[mat-vey]

Quote: professor

By the way, Sikorsky's helicopter turned out to be such that they immediately found use for it.

Mil's helicopter, which immediately found application, turned out a little later ... And the subsequent ones were not equal for a long time ... Although there are still no places like MI-26 and MI-12.

[mat-vey]

And a counter question - no commies, the "elite" did not run away, and who lost that Pentkovsky processors were not created in Russia?
And what do you say for Dolivo-Dobrovolsky, you can say the founder of electrical engineering who, long before the civil war, "left" the Republic of Ingushetia, otherwise he would hardly have created something.

[common man]

Quote: professor

But the fact is that the Russian Sikorsky did not create his helicopters in Russia.

Well, in America (USA) the Americans have created practically nothing at all. Because Americans are Indians. And all the rest are English, French, Belgians, Germans, Jews, by the way, as well as blacks of different nationalities, Chinese, etc. Russians too. What is the problem? Or again, everyone can, only Russia is to blame that Sikorsky left for America.
PS And, "professor", stop calling the USSR with all sorts of obscene words. By this you are asking for the conclusion that Jews are Jews from the word JUDAH.

[stalkerwalker]

".. And on his chest gleamed
Medal for the city of Jerusalem ... "

[Professor]

Quote: man in the street

Well, in America (USA) the Americans have created practically nothing at all. Because Americans are Indians.

Native Americans are Indians. The rest are either African Americans or simply Americans. Here are the last and created everything.

Quote: man in the street

And all the rest are English, French, Belgians, Germans, Jews, by the way, as well as blacks of different nationalities, Chinese, etc. Russians too. What is the problem? Or again, everyone can, only Russia is to blame that Sikorsky left for America.

Not Russia, but the scoop is to blame. Sikorsky did not want to live in a scoop.

Quote: man in the street

PS And, "professor", stop calling the USSR with all sorts of obscene words. By this you are asking for the conclusion that Jews are Jews from the word JUDAH.

he scoop is a scoop. The Jews did not originate with the name Judas, by the way it is still a common name in Israel. Judea is still in Israel. This time.
I have never insulted the Russian people and the Orthodox. These are two.

[common man]

Quote: professor

I have never insulted the Russian people and the Orthodox. These are two.

What problems? You insult the social system that raised and learned you, as I understand from your comments, I insult the religion, which I care about. Everyone has their own cockroaches.

Quote: professor

The Jews did not come from the name Judas,

It may not have happened from Judas, but you behave like JUDAS.
PS From 1861 to 1915, about 4,6 million people left the Russian Empire, of which about 40-45% moved to the United States. According to the 1910 US census, 1,7 million emigrants from Russia lived in America. According to various estimates, from 1910 to 1917, another 300 thousand Russian citizens moved to the United States.
Is the Soviet government to blame for this too?

[mat-vey]

INTELLIGENCE - Feminine .... maybe then not “this”, but “this”? And why did you call Sikorsky from a lowercase letter?
And the teachers remained many times more the same Yuryev, Tupolev, Stechkin and thousands more.

[Professor]

Quote: mat-vey

INTELLIGENCE - Feminine .... maybe then not “this”, but “this”? And why did you call Sikorsky from a lowercase letter?
And the teachers remained many times more the same Yuryev, Tupolev, Stechkin and thousands more.

1. I have never been Russian. I can.
2. The sentence contains not only "INTELLIGENCE - Feminine", but also "dissenting, enterprising". So most likely "these".
3. "Sikorskie" is a common noun.
4. There were not enough teachers, and therefore all sorts of Americans were imported.

[mat-vey]

Quote: professor

There were not enough teachers, and therefore all sorts of Americans were imported

And before the civil war, it means that there was a general literacy and prosperity of sciences.

Quote: professor

I can.

And even more so for the Indians.

[Professor]

Quote: mat-vey

And before the civil war, it means that there was a general literacy and prosperity of sciences.

I hasten to surprise you, but there was no general literacy even under the USSR. I came across soldiers who could not read.

Quote: mat-vey

And even more so for the Indians.

I am happy for them.

[mat-vey]

Quote: professor

I came across soldiers who could not read.

We can congratulate you for observing rare occurrences.

Quote: professor

And even more so for the Indians.

I am happy for them.

Then why use quotes to spread rot? Not tolerant ..

[Professor]

Quote: mat-vey

We can congratulate you for observing rare occurrences.

This is not at all a rare occurrence among soldiers from Central Asia.

Quote: mat-vey

Then why use quotes to spread rot? Not tolerant ..

Duc I love the Russian language and do not tolerate illiteracy, especially among the indigenous population of the Central Russian Uplands.

[mat-vey]

Quote: professor

This is not at all a rare occurrence among soldiers from Central Asia.

And how did the military commissar miss that? And did they speak Russian at all? Well, the question arises - did you serve in the construction battalion?

Quote: professor

and I can't stand illiteracy

How hard it is for you to live ... this is during T9 then ...

[Professor]

Quote: mat-vey

And how did the military commissar miss that? And did they speak Russian at all? Well, the question arises - did you serve in the construction battalion?

Hello to you. The military commissar could violate the article of the Constitution of the USSR, which described the sacred right and duty to defend the Motherland?
They spoke Russian badly.
I served in the navy and we did not have such, but when I was growing up in a military town I met such. And more than once. They got into the aviation and the Greens.

Quote: mat-vey

How hard it is for you to live ... this is during T9 then ...

It is always harder for a clever person to endure fools than clever fools.

[mat-vey]

Quote: professor

Hello to you. The military commissar could violate the article of the Constitution of the USSR, which described the sacred right and duty to defend the Motherland?

Could he have violated general and compulsory education?

Quote: professor

They spoke Russian badly.

When my father was in the ministry, he told me one case. He was alone and spoke poorly in Russian and was illiterate, and then it turned out that he had a university diploma.

[Professor]

Quote: mat-vey

Could he have violated general and compulsory education?

The military commissar did not care who and in which villages what he studied and studied in general. It was important for him to invite everyone at the age of 18.

Quote: mat-vey

When my father was in the ministry, he told me one case. He was alone and spoke poorly in Russian and was illiterate, and then it turned out that he had a university diploma.

I've met such people in Armenia. He does not understand Russian and does not know what the officer wants from him. Fortunately, I spoke Armenian, could "translate". And when there was no translator, then suddenly they remembered Russian. Under moderate physical stress. Central Asia was a different story. They really did not speak either Russian or writing. Absolutely.

[mat-vey]

Quote: professor

The military commissar did not care who and in which villages what he studied and studied in general. It was important for him to invite everyone at the age of 18.

Something with you, the "professor" is not clean - he is calling not only a military commissar, but a draft board and they hardly wanted extreme if an illiterate person gets into a highly technological army.
PySy - Am I all right with the quotes? Well, in general?

[nikvic46]

Requiem for the whiteguard part of the population of Russia. About the rest of the silence. Peasants, workers, who died in these years, no one wants to count. Have all the noble people met adversity abroad? There are always foam pickers in life. And they felt quite well in exile. Prince Yusupov left for France in 1917. In a civil war there are no right and wrong. And to rank the White Guard elite among the saints is complete recklessness. The entire people went through this nightmare test.

[Doccor18]

And to rank the White Guard elite among the saints is complete folly.

Oh no. They will be numbered, canonized ... It is necessary to create a benevolent image of a "kind, intelligent and unhappy master" whom dirty slaves forced to leave their historical homeland ... etc...

[lelik613]

Those on whose conscience the overthrow of the "royal" "passion-bearer" and the incitement of civil war, conspiracy with the interventionists to sell the country.

[Keyser soze]

By the word "elita" sociology means a stratum that was formed over 150-200 years. This is a specific education, morality, etc.

Now we are crying that education has sunk. That there are no elites prepared to govern the country morally and in its prosperity, which today includes the prosperity and wealth of the nation.

This is not a problem only for Russia, but also for many countries, including mine - in 1944 they physically destroyed or marginalized the then Elite and never created a new one. The communists have tried, but 45 years is not enough. And then the same communists went into the capitalists and began to plunder the country. Because you don't have to lie to yourself - now, roughly in our country, in Bulgaria, all property is in the hands of former communists, their children, leaders of the former services, etc. Okay, okay, but the last 30 years have proven that these "exes" can only steal, but not work, do business and lead the country to prosperity.

So the Elites must be treated carefully - they are easy to shoot, but difficult to nurture. And then everyone suffers from the nouveau riche, thieves, fuckers and cooks in power. After themselves, they will not leave palaces or universities, but whores and Mercedes and damage to the country and people.

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: Keyser Soze

By the word "elita" sociology means a stratum that was formed over 150-200 years. This is a specific education, morality, etc.

How do you have a strange notion of sociology

Elite (English French élite from Lat. Eligo “chosen; best” [1]) in sociology and political science is a collection of people holding high leadership positions in government, the union of states and the economy.
The elite is a stable community with deep connections of its members who have common interests and access to the levers of real power

So nasty moral people without "special education" having access

to the levers of real power

in sociology will also be considered the elite.

[Keyser soze]

The elite is a stable community

Here is the answer - a stable community with similar interests and views is not created in a year or ten. And what we now have is not a stable elite, but an oligarchy, which, by the definition of Aristotle, is the most fragile and short-lived form of power. First, the oligarchs steal, then they squabble and redistribute, and then the people get bored with it and he hits them on the head with shovels.

[Keyser soze]

in sociology will also be considered the elite.

Sociology has many different views on life. I oversimplified and didn't go into details in my post. This is a generalization of the ideas of both Gaetano Mosca and Wilfred Pareto, Berdyaev and Jose Ortega and Gasset ... When the Elita is weak, a revolution occurs and then a new, stable Elite is created. But it takes time. And when the elite is strong, there is a "circulation of the elita" when its weak parts go down and people from the non-governing part of the pyramid go up.

And when you shoot the Elita, as in yours and ours, then expect concussions. How long has it been since 1917? And you are still divided into red and white and break swords ... this means that there are no new elites, and there is no peace and prosperity and a stable balance in the country. We have something similar, but in a different way.

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: Keyser Soze

And when the elite is strong, there is a "circulation of the elita" when its weak parts go down and people from the non-governing part of the pyramid go up.

Simply put, this is a "social lift", by 1917 it was not in Ingushetia, which means the elite was weak then, according to your general logic. But in Soviet times, before the 80s. In any case, this elevator was perhaps the most effective in the foreseeable world history, which means the Soviet elite was strong, according to your logic, again.
And in my opinion, if the "elite" does not correspond, especially so categorically as in RI by 1917, then to hell with such an elite.

[sigdoc]

"Poor things", but about the life of Belarusians and Ukrainians who fell on their land in the occupation of the Poles, "pravdoruby" do not want to remember something.

[mat-vey]

Quote: sigdoc

"Poor things", but about the life of Belarusians and Ukrainians who fell on their land in the occupation of the Poles, "pravdoruby" do not want to remember something.

So there it is ... some kind of people, but here the intelligentsia "

[agond]

They mostly fled because - they knew they were guilty and logically feared persecution,