Military Review

The Deputy Defense Minister announced the identification of the shortcomings of the BMPT "Terminator" during the exercise

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The Deputy Defense Minister announced the identification of the shortcomings of the BMPT "Terminator" during the exercise

It is reported that during the KSHU (command post exercises) "Kavkaz-2020", certain shortcomings of the BMPT "Terminator" were identified. This was stated by the deputy head of the Russian defense department, Lieutenant General Yunus-Bek Yevkurov.


On the air of TK Zvezda, General Yevkurov noted that for the newest support combat vehicle tanks a special experiment was carried out. It involved nine units of the BMPT "Terminator". According to Yevkurov, these were severe tests for a combat vehicle, and during these tests, shortcomings were identified.

The Deputy Minister of Defense did not specify what specific shortcomings were being discussed. However, earlier materials appeared in open sources that one of them may be insufficient for modern combat anti-tank missile ammunition. It consisted in the original versions of the "Terminator" of 4 "Attack-T" ammunition, spending which the BMPT crew had to switch to using automatic cannons. And on some 30 mm cannons with the support of tanks, as they say, you can't go far today.

The disadvantages that were noted by military experts also included the declared weak security of weapons and ammunition - the same arrangement of automatic guns.


According to the latest information, the manufacturers have taken into account the shortcomings identified during the exercises conducted at the Terminator BMPT. According to Lieutenant General Yevkurov, today the combat vehicle is being tested in the Central Military District. The Deputy Defense Minister noted that after the final conclusion of the state commission, the BMPT "Terminator" will go into service.

Earlier, the Ministry of Defense presented footage with a "run-in" of the BMPT "Terminator" in the Central Military District:

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  1. ivselim
    ivselim 18 December 2020 07: 21
    +19
    Any new technique has "childhood sores". The main thing is to identify and eliminate in time.
    1. Insurgent
      Insurgent 18 December 2020 07: 30
      +15
      Quote: ivselim
      Any new technique has "childhood sores". The main thing is to identify and eliminate in time.

      Moreover, for example, during the Second World War, already mass-produced samples of aircraft and armored vehicles were continuously modernized without prejudice to the number of vehicles coming off the assembly line.
      The main thing is that the modernization reserve was originally laid down by the design.
      And there, there is no limit to perfection.
      1. Evil Booth
        Evil Booth 23 December 2020 11: 53
        -1
        the tower will simply be torn off (c) by another site. it was written there 20 years ago. and I tend to trust))) because the tower is not present there are cans from the spray from lead bullets. and naked content.
    2. Finches
      Finches 18 December 2020 07: 33
      +8
      That is why they are exercises, but I am generally skeptical about BMPT.
      1. swnvaleria
        swnvaleria 18 December 2020 08: 17
        +29
        all the same, the terminator will be much better than the shilka, in Afghanistan and in Syria the shilka was clearly not used as a means of air defense, and at the same time it showed itself well as a means of supporting infantry and tanks, and the terminator will be more powerful both in defense and in armament, not will modify a lot of a wonderful car!
        1. Boris Chernikov
          Boris Chernikov 18 December 2020 12: 49
          +3
          6-8 ATGMs, Kord-M on the panoramic + full-fledged control system for AGS with the ability to control the commander
        2. Evil Booth
          Evil Booth 23 December 2020 11: 53
          -1
          tachanka for the rich. well, or an armored support vehicle.
      2. ProkletyiPirat
        ProkletyiPirat 18 December 2020 13: 51
        +1
        and what exactly is skepticism? (there are a lot of opinions, for example, for me on tactics and chaos, for someone in terms of composition / quantity of weapons / BP, someone for "all-roundness", but what about you?)
      3. BARKHAN
        BARKHAN 18 December 2020 17: 11
        +1
        Quote: Finches
        That is why they are exercises, but I am generally skeptical about BMPT.

        Why?
      4. venik
        venik 18 December 2020 19: 32
        +5
        Quote: Finches
        That is why they are exercises, but I am generally skeptical about BMPT.

        ========
        Well, the attitude towards BMPT is a matter of taste (for me, for example, it is confidential, with elements of optimism), but the fact that the shortcomings were identified (and in harsh conditions) and will be taken into account by the developers BEFORE the official adoption - this is very well! It is also good that the "Boomerang" and "Armata" are being driven in a hard mode, which means that already well "run-in" cars will go into service! Our situation is not that we can adopt "raw" equipment, and then suffer with it, eliminating "childhood diseases" .....
    3. Bar1
      Bar1 18 December 2020 07: 44
      +15
      he correctly says: it is necessary to double the ammunition load, it is very possible to do.
      1. Nikon OConor
        Nikon OConor 20 December 2020 21: 27
        0
        I, of course, am far from the topic of tanks, but how to double the ammunition load? How to reload Ptury in combat conditions? If the amount of PU cannot be increased or can it?
        And in my opinion, the car is good, with proper saturation in the tank forces, the need for increased ammunition may disappear.
        Although hotsetsa 8 ATR, and that's it))
    4. vkl.47
      vkl.47 18 December 2020 07: 54
      +22
      The gun needs 57mm and 8 and not 4 ATGMs
      1. YOUR
        YOUR 18 December 2020 08: 09
        +18
        A couple more anti-aircraft missiles, a mortar, a landing site ...
        1. Romka47
          Romka47 18 December 2020 12: 35
          +7
          and a couple of thermobars)
        2. Comrade I
          Comrade I 18 December 2020 13: 03
          +3
          And why flirt then? The set of 4 missiles is really small. Putting all the Wishlist is of course almost impossible. But that question needs to be solved. And not to make jokes about you and the whole composition of those who comment below. Or do you suggest leaving everything as it is? Although even the military themselves have questions about technology.
          1. YOUR
            YOUR 18 December 2020 14: 20
            +2
            Since they cost a little too much. Absolutely unprotected, simple bullet and throw ATGM
            1. Thomas N.
              Thomas N. 20 December 2020 06: 10
              0
              Quote: YOUR
              Since they cost a little too much. Absolutely unprotected, simple bullet and throw ATGM

              Armored casing around the launchers there, in your opinion, why? It can be clearly seen both in the photo and in the video.
              1. YOUR
                YOUR 20 December 2020 11: 14
                0
                Which is impossible to pierce with a pistol. Wall thickness mm 5
      2. jovanni
        jovanni 18 December 2020 08: 57
        +3
        And a trailer for ammunition ...
        1. Cympak
          Cympak 18 December 2020 09: 37
          +1
          Trooper trailer.! Drove to the line of dismounting, unhooked the trailer
          1. Forcecom
            Forcecom 18 December 2020 10: 40
            +2
            And at the back there is another trailer with a small nuclear reactor to provide all this beauty of relics.
            1. seregin-s1
              seregin-s1 18 December 2020 17: 23
              +1
              Better a tank gun!)
              1. Sergey Sfiedu
                Sergey Sfiedu 19 December 2020 21: 39
                0
                To that in the end it will come. "Terminator" is a means of stripping in settlements and mountains, plus an ATGM carrier. In a tank attack, you can't think of anything better than a tank.
        2. Kart
          Kart 18 December 2020 11: 54
          +4
          Unmanned option. Then the ammunition will fit.
          Another would be to lower the armament a little lower to the hull ...
          1. ProkletyiPirat
            ProkletyiPirat 18 December 2020 13: 31
            +5
            cannot be lowered, the axis of rotation was specially raised there in order to increase the angle of lowering of the gun, in order to fire down into ditches, ditches, trenches and / or down from a hill.
      3. Grits
        Grits 18 December 2020 13: 54
        +2
        Quote: vkl.47
        The gun needs 57mm and 8 and not 4 ATGMs

        At least one 57 mm. The second can be 30 mm. leave.
      4. Krasnoyarsk
        Krasnoyarsk 18 December 2020 20: 21
        +2
        Quote: vkl.47
        The gun needs 57mm and 8 and not 4 ATGMs

        So they go along with the tanks, why do they need 57mm? To combat anti-tank weapons, 30mm is quite enough. After all, this is precisely what it is intended for. To destroy a serious target, it prompts the target designation of a nearby tank. In addition, there is also "Derivation". Who said that it cannot be used against ground targets? I am not voicing my point of view, but asking questions. Not enough 4 ATGMs? Is 8 enough? Or maybe they are few? Or maybe 2 is enough? Besides the BMPT with tanks, the Chrysanthemum is coming. How many shots does the tank have? Maybe a little? Need to double it? In general, all these assumptions are a lot, a little from the ceiling.
        Well, let's weight the entire BMPT with ATGMs, give a 57mm cannon, and not one, but two. And what kind of freak it will be. Designers, fulfilling such requirements, will not go crazy?
        You know, there was such an anecdote, - one innovator made a proposal - since the pencil is still not fully used, then let's not put graphite at the end of the pencil, how much graphite we will save. Accepted. A little time passed and he makes the following proposal - since there is no graphite at the end of the pencil, then why is there a tree. Let's cut it off how much wood we save.
        1. riwas
          riwas 19 December 2020 04: 45
          +1
          To combat anti-tank weapons, 30mm is quite enough.

          The 30-mm cannon lacks effective range against ATGMs. Again, for a 57-mm projectile, it is easier to make a remote fuse and there will be fewer such fuses in the queue.
          To the 57 mm cannon, I would also add a 12,7 mm - a mechanical twin in a separate turret, to reduce the reaction time on close targets.
          1. Thomas N.
            Thomas N. 20 December 2020 07: 20
            0
            Quote: riwas
            The 30-mm cannon lacks effective range against ATGMs. Again, for a 57-mm projectile, it is easier to make a remote fuse and there will be fewer such fuses in the queue.

            The effective range of automatic cannons of any caliber will not be enough against long-range ATGMs. And against mass ATGMs of medium (2-2,5 km) and short (RPG) range, it is necessary to fire from cannons for suppression, because the first shot will always be behind them (if their own infantry does not crush enemy grenade launchers with fire). To suppress the cannon, it needs a large ammunition load, which means a small caliber.
        2. Thomas N.
          Thomas N. 20 December 2020 06: 56
          0
          Quote: Krasnoyarsk
          In addition, there is also "Derivation". Who said that it cannot be used against ground targets?

          It is possible, but not advisable because: https://topwar.ru/178000-modulnye-preimuschestva-osobennosti-universalnoj-platformy-boxer.html#comment-id-11050746
    5. svp67
      svp67 18 December 2020 11: 52
      +6
      Quote: ivselim
      Any new technique has "childhood sores".

      This is no longer a "sore", time shows that in this form this machine was relevant ten years ago, now it needs to be "taught" to work against kamikaze drones, ATGMs, such as "Javelin" and "Spike", light gliding bombs, and for this it is necessary that its shells have the function of "remote air detonation" and can create a cloud of fragments, and in our country only shells of 57-mm and higher caliber have such an opportunity
      1. Boris Chernikov
        Boris Chernikov 18 December 2020 12: 50
        0
        30 mm shells also have such an opportunity and they are already being tested
        1. ProkletyiPirat
          ProkletyiPirat 18 December 2020 13: 45
          -1
          they have contact PSUs, for remote PSUs, 30mm OFS / OS have insufficient fragmentation volume, for example, look for information on 20-25-30-40-45mm foreign counterparts and refusal to put them into service ... For example, for American hand grenade launchers , after all, they refused there not because of the "expensive electronics" (in the MTR it is even more expensive), but because the fragments did not pierce (if you are lucky to blow up in a meter, they will break through, but if in a couple of meters, then alas and ah)
          1. Boris Chernikov
            Boris Chernikov 18 December 2020 15: 02
            -1
            1) there are such shells,
            2) the weakness of the power of a single shot is compensated by the size of the volley
            3) fragments for work on drones, anti-tank guns and "light gliding bombs" are more than enough, because the ammo module with 57 mm shells-80 shells in total, where there are OFS, and URs and BOPS, and Terminator-900 ... shells will have 57 mm? from the strength of 50 to the detriment of everything .. taking into account the shooting "at 2-3" on the target, this is 17-25 volleys .. and the Terminator will have 600 of these shells, therefore the volleys "at 10" will already be 60 ..
            1. ProkletyiPirat
              ProkletyiPirat 18 December 2020 19: 39
              +2
              yeah, great math, only
              mathematics is not wrong, mathematicians are wrong

              If many different R&D projects, and even in different countries, were closed for the same reason, then probably your
              Quote: Boris Chernikov
              3) shards ... more than enough

              just not enough. Yes, here at least about our diriviation-air defense, you can remember there just the main message of creating "minimizing the volumetric consumption of the BP per unit of the destroyed target" that is, if conventionally and simply, then the "shell" knocks down but spends 1 cubic meter of the BP, your remote controls will spend 0,5 , 0,1, and the derivation will spend XNUMX BP on the same work, respectively, there is an organizational staff saving on AFV units to ensure constant protection in a given quality-quantity.

              But what can we say about air defense with their "fragmentation volume" (not to be confused with the volume of the BP!), Even when working on the ground splintersThe "fragmentation field" is not enough, you can see for yourself on the video from the operation of helicopter guns (for example, shooting with Apaches). There is also scientific information in metallurgy on the problems of the strength of the projectile and the fragmentation performance of steels (this is even worse for calibers 80+ in 50s).

              And finally, OS of 20-25mm and OFSs of 30mm were created to improve the barrier effect on the target (and not the pre-obstacle), and they were originally developed and compared with large-caliber machine guns, not artillery, and BPs are simply not designed for these guns for air blasting, but you can screw in the required detonator there, and you can hammer in nails not only with microscopes (rockets) but also with screwdrivers (OFS (30)) only hammers are still better and by orders of magnitude.
              1. Boris Chernikov
                Boris Chernikov 18 December 2020 21: 36
                -3
                name heels of R&D with examples of general pharmaceuticals with distortion?)
              2. Boris Chernikov
                Boris Chernikov 18 December 2020 21: 39
                -4
                and yes .. very "professionally" according to the "shell of 30 knocks down the UAV" .. by the way, the Germans with their Cougars know .. that they use remote control systems in vain?)
      2. Alexander Seklitsky
        Alexander Seklitsky 18 December 2020 18: 11
        0
        stick derivation there wink
      3. Thomas N.
        Thomas N. 20 December 2020 08: 00
        0
        Quote: svp67
        This is no longer a "sore", time shows that in this form this machine was relevant ten years ago, now it needs to be "taught" to work against kamikaze drones, ATGMs, such as "Javelin" and "Spike", light gliding bombs, and for this it is necessary that its shells have the function of "remote air detonation" and can create a cloud of fragments, and in our country only shells of 57-mm and higher caliber have such an opportunity

        It is possible to work against kamikaze drones, but you will need a radar, with his panoramic sight the commander can only find a hovering helicopter, and then if he knows where to look. Against the attacking ATGM Javelin, Spike 2A42 guns are not enough, it is necessary to put six-barreled guns as on naval ZAK against anti-ship missiles in order to get a high density of fire. But even in this case, the ammunition consumption will be such that a trailer will be needed for the ammunition load. smile It's better to use aircraft machine guns with the Mi-24. Against guided bombs, the cloud of fragments is useless, the fragments will not detonate when hit by the warhead of the bomb, and in order to disable the bomb control system, it is necessary to detect this bomb in advance, which is very difficult - too small, and again, a radar is needed. And most importantly, anti-aircraft art should solve all these tasks. complex, and if you load them with BMPT, then its tasks on the battlefield who will solve?
    6. pereselenec
      pereselenec 18 December 2020 11: 55
      +2
      Quote: ivselim
      Any new technique has "childhood sores".


      Here, already, along the way "senile".

    7. ROSS_51
      ROSS_51 18 December 2020 15: 35
      +3
      Quote: ivselim
      Any new technique has "childhood sores". The main thing is to identify and eliminate in time.

      There will be little sense of the alteration. So .. some kind of mutant, a giraffe with a rhino .. It looks menacing, already horror, but in fact, they screwed up a bunch of weapons on the tank base, while not really brought to mind.
      This cannot be allowed into the city (for which it was made). It will be one more torch.
    8. Charik
      Charik 18 December 2020 19: 50
      +1
      New technology? In my opinion it is 10-20 years old. 4 Attacks are not even a chance to destroy a tank
    9. cat Rusich
      cat Rusich 18 December 2020 20: 29
      +2
      Quote: ivselim
      Any new technology has "childhood sores" ..

      "Child" BMPT "Terminator" - born 2000 ... Firstborn was born single-barreled (with one 2A42). The second barrel appeared in 2002 ...
      Quote: ivselim
      The main thing is to identify and eliminate in time.

      BMPT "Terminator" in work since 2011 ... in Kazakhstan. And in Russia, I just entered the troops ... 20 years was for "experimental run-in", few ATGMs ... - then ATGM "Chrysanthemum" - 15 ATGMs (just book ...). There is an "opinion" that the Ministry of Defense has not yet figured out how to use the BMPT "Terminator", in which units to include the "Terminator". About armor protection "Terminator" towers - you can put the usual turret from the T-72, but you just get a T-72 with two 2A42s.
      1. Sergey Sfiedu
        Sergey Sfiedu 19 December 2020 21: 42
        0
        And they began to develop during the war in Afghanistan. Strictly speaking - a machine for fighting barmaley. But what is her place in a tank battle?
        1. max702
          max702 22 December 2020 19: 55
          0
          Will there be a tank battle? When was the last time you were like this? But from the Barmaleevs we have been raking regularly since the times of Afghanistan .. Either from Shiloks there are all the pribluda air defense forces in the same place in order to increase the ammunition load, but the foil armor remained, and they still highly appreciated these vehicles ..
    10. Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I 19 December 2020 19: 46
      0
      Quote: ivselim
      Any new technology has "childhood sores"

      30 years of development and testing! Children's sores? belay
  2. NDR-791
    NDR-791 18 December 2020 07: 21
    +7
    It is reported that during the KSHU (command post exercises) "Kavkaz-2020", certain shortcomings of the BMPT "Terminator" were identified ...
    ... According to the latest information, the deficiencies identified during the exercises conducted at the BMPT "Terminator" were taken into account by the manufacturers.

    Promptly !!! Modularity probably worked. And different options were ready in advance. Rearranged and again for testing. So quickly they will bring it, it's high time, the car is needed
  3. aszzz888
    aszzz888 18 December 2020 07: 26
    +12
    And what piece of iron went into operation the first time? Everything is natural. The main thing is to quickly eliminate it and start mass production.
  4. Thrifty
    Thrifty 18 December 2020 07: 27
    +1
    And it's good that they revealed the shortcomings, and did not begin to feed them with fables, which turned out to be practically ideal! If only these shortcomings did not affect the purchase of the Terminators by the army.
  5. Pessimist22
    Pessimist22 18 December 2020 07: 30
    +3
    Place 4 rockets in blocks.
  6. Kapkan
    Kapkan 18 December 2020 07: 34
    +7
    It always seemed to me that 4 rockets are not enough.
    For me, it's better to bring the number to 12 pieces.
    Helicopter suspension type. With a different mounting method, of course.
    1. Escobar
      Escobar 18 December 2020 08: 42
      +1
      Yes, exactly, and how to be able to change weapon modules on a helicopter depending on the situation. It is necessary to destroy the enemy tanks of the maximum distance in a combined arms battle - they put in anti-tank systems, they need to escort the convoy in the near rear, put up automatic cannons, we must go in the city with tanks, put blocks of non-guided missiles
      1. Bad_gr
        Bad_gr 18 December 2020 13: 42
        +1
        Quote: Eskobar
        Yes, exactly, and how to be able to change weapon modules on a helicopter depending on the situation.

        And cover it all with good armor (in the article, as a disadvantage, this is indicated) - we get a module the size of the "Coalition" and, accordingly, the weight of this bandura will be appropriate. In order to fit in at least some weight in terms of weight, it will be necessary to remove the armor from those places where the crew sits, which at the moment, for now, is well protected.
      2. Thomas N.
        Thomas N. 20 December 2020 08: 16
        0
        Quote: Eskobar
        Yes, exactly, and how to be able to change weapon modules on a helicopter depending on the situation. It is necessary to destroy the enemy tanks of the maximum distance in a combined arms battle - they put in anti-tank systems, they need to escort the convoy in the near rear, put up automatic cannons, we must go in the city with tanks, put blocks of non-guided missiles

        The helicopter for changing outboard weapons has an airfield with a large number of technical personnel and a high speed to return to this airfield between sorties. And the BMPT, how to do it? Where can I change the weapon modules, and how quickly can I get to this place? The idea of ​​interchangeable suspensions on the sides of the tower is interesting, but it's unrealistic.
    2. midivan
      midivan 18 December 2020 09: 34
      +12
      Quote: Kapkan
      It always seemed to me that 4 rockets are not enough.
      For me, it's better to bring the number to 12 pieces.

      what We can be better than 40 trunks, but why waste time on trifles? Do you seriously think that the Terminator will destroy 12 tanks? As the Mountain Shooter correctly put it below -
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      ... This is a tank SUPPORT vehicle, and not at all for battle with tanks.

      And then they already want to make a destroyer out of it, give free rein to a couple of "Zircons" on it by eveningfellow wassat
      1. Kapkan
        Kapkan 18 December 2020 12: 29
        +3
        Do you seriously think that the Terminator will destroy 12 tanks?

        I seriously believe that he can miss.
    3. grandfather_Kostya
      grandfather_Kostya 18 December 2020 12: 16
      0
      For me, it's better to bring the number to 12 pieces.

      It is possible and more, if on the "machine gun belt" to pull to the launch point from under the armor.
      1. Thorvlobnor IV
        Thorvlobnor IV 19 December 2020 15: 31
        -1
        On two "machine-gun belts": anti-tank missiles in one, anti-aircraft missiles in the other. Plus a 57 mm gun with selective power supply and an 82 mm mortar.
  7. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 18 December 2020 07: 35
    +14
    The car is a real "Terminator" ... Ammunition is missing? So who gets it when? Is the security of an uninhabited combat module low? Probably, but still not a tank. If the enemy lights up with a BOPSom, the combat module will probably just fly off. But he also has other tasks. It must "jam" on the battlefield unobtrusive and lightly armored targets - infantry with grenade launchers and pturses, all sorts of cars with the same "gifts" for tanks ... It's a tank SUPPORT vehicle, and not at all for fighting tanks.
    1. Hagen
      Hagen 18 December 2020 08: 56
      +4
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      He must "jam" on the battlefield unobtrusive and lightly armored targets - infantry with grenade launchers and pturses, all sorts of cars with the same "gifts" for tanks

      I think that to a greater extent it lacks a modern instrument for reconnaissance of targets (such as hand-held optical instruments), more advanced than that of a tank. If in this parameter the BMPT and the tank are equal, then I see no point in the BMPT.
    2. Grits
      Grits 18 December 2020 14: 19
      +1
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      This is a SUPPORT vehicle for tanks, and not at all for battle with tanks.

      Indeed, then why, one wonders, are the same tanks in the same order with him? Just to rumble and clang?
    3. max702
      max702 22 December 2020 20: 17
      0
      The whole trouble comes from the idiotic name BMPT and hence all the questions .. This machine does not belong to the protection of tanks at all! First of all, this is an infantry support vehicle in urbanized bases, a column escort vehicle for actions at checkpoints, and other similar tasks, tanks do not need it, provided they are used according to the regulations .. But the infantry is very even, because the BMP \ BTR cardboard, tank with a weapon for the city is not suitable, and despite the normal weapon, the self-propelled guns do not have armor, aodelia in the form of gantrucks and alterations of Shiloks is from poverty and in the absence of a specialized tool .. And an analogue of BMPT is exactly what is needed for this, namely powerful armor, productive fire posts with a minimum response time to threats, everything has long been there! But the current embodiment of this idea is a banal plpil and no more .. Alas .. Whoever would put the brains of UVZ lobbyists in the right would be good, but again half-measures ..
  8. Kerensky
    Kerensky 18 December 2020 08: 05
    0
    He lacks a flamethrower.
  9. lopuhan2006
    lopuhan2006 18 December 2020 08: 06
    -3
    An extremely unnecessary car in modern warfare. It should have protection from drones and at least protection of weapons from 30mm ammunition. And you can drive barmaleev with BMP with Berezhko. And as a seasoning, 50 pieces are enough. Only now a lot of money was spent on a dead-end branch. Poseidon, terminator, Sunshine, it's all yesterday. What can Terminator oppose to a penny swarm of quadrics? ...like this.
    1. YOUR
      YOUR 18 December 2020 08: 11
      +1
      Such a machine cannot be universal. But let's say we created it and what do we have? If it fails, in the end, everything that a person created another can break, the unit loses most of the fire support.
      1. Escobar
        Escobar 18 December 2020 08: 38
        +2
        In my opinion, the creators crossed a hedgehog and a snake: if they put the AGS on it to smoke the infantry from shelters, why not in a tower with a circular fire, but somewhere in the body? Two more crew members + stabilization is possible for shooting on the move.
        Why shoot 2 30mm cannons at helicopters? Without a radar, where would he shoot there? And at the jeeps with ATGMs, one would probably be enough. In the city, clean up the upper floors? Duck, it would be better, instead of ATGMs, to be able to install a unit of rocket-throwers to smoke out the enemy, like on uranium 9.
        4 ATGMs with better characteristics than tank ones? And what is so little then?
        1. Runway
          Runway 18 December 2020 09: 48
          +2
          The vehicle replaces two BMPs (in terms of firepower), which makes it possible not to "tear" motorized rifle subunits to support tank ones. The base is one, the protection of the crew is higher. Perhaps that was the idea? Having fastened a pair of BMPTs to the TV = armored group in the defense of a reinforced battalion or working in isolation during offensive actions to develop success.
          Only AGS and AP to work (efficiently) on sheltered infantry and light armored combat vehicles - within a kilometer. Accordingly, in the affected area of ​​all PTSs (except for RPG).
          ATGM - Attack. Sturm-s had a BC - 12 ATGM. Modern PU Shturm-s based on BMPT is not possible (do not cram the bk, and if the explosion / hit, then it is better outside than in the case bahn).
    2. nPuBaTuP
      nPuBaTuP 18 December 2020 08: 12
      -2
      Your nickname says a lot ...
      This is an BMPT and not an air defense system .... His tasks are different ..
      1. lopuhan2006
        lopuhan2006 18 December 2020 08: 32
        +10
        Are you still living in the 70s? Look around and see trends (if you know the word). We slept drones, I am silent about mines, I am silent about the fleet, 5th generation 30 years after the United States, anaerobic installations and lithium batteries and much more. There are objective reasons, but there are strategic miscalculations. The terminator is already deprecated. Take an interest in what is being developed in the west - Swarm under control, unmanned minesweepers and hunters for submarines, microwaves and lasers are the maximum distance and minimum people. This all implies technology. It is difficult for us alone without allies and it is impossible to be the first everywhere, but there is one big problem - the generals are lobbying their interests, not the country.
        PYS: Do you meet everyone by their clothes? And this conclusion of yours proves the narrowness of your horizons)))
        1. nPuBaTuP
          nPuBaTuP 18 December 2020 08: 57
          +1
          Poseidon, terminator, Sunshine, it's all yesterday.

          And further
          Take an interest in what is being developed in the west - Swarm under control, unmanned minesweepers and submarine hunters, microwaves and lasers are the maximum distance and minimum people.

          For your information, there is no such weaponry, which was indicated in the first post, and they are afraid of it ...
          And about lasers ... Does the name Peresvet tell you anything? Microwave weapons are also probably being developed here, like many other things ...
        2. 7,62h54
          7,62h54 18 December 2020 09: 07
          +4
          The people still live in the Kulikovo field, they are ready to cover everything with hats
          1. Wildgoose
            Wildgoose 18 December 2020 17: 53
            +3
            Believe it or not, the MO ordered 5.78 million hats from the Ministry of Justice, and carried out an inventory, found 2.4 million hats in warehouses. There is something to throw)))
        3. Reserve buildbat
          Reserve buildbat 18 December 2020 09: 37
          +1
          In the west, a swarm is being developed under control. In Russia, anti-ship missiles have already been used for 30 years in the form of this very swarm laughing
          Moreover, with an independent exchange of information, target allocation, etc.
        4. Quadro
          Quadro 18 December 2020 11: 24
          -6
          Quote: lopuhan2006
          Are you still living in the 70s? Look around and see trends (if you know the word). We slept drones, I am silent about mines, I am silent about the fleet, 5th generation 30 years after the United States, anaerobic installations and lithium batteries and much more. There are objective reasons, but there are strategic miscalculations. The terminator is already deprecated. Take an interest in what is being developed in the west - Swarm under control, unmanned minesweepers and hunters for submarines, microwaves and lasers are the maximum distance and minimum people. This all implies technology. It is difficult for us alone without allies and it is impossible to be the first everywhere, but there is one big problem - the generals are lobbying their interests, not the country.
          PYS: Do you meet everyone by their clothes? And this conclusion of yours proves the narrowness of your horizons)))

          Read less fiction, storyteller. We have been hearing about these "swarms" for 10 years now, and no "swarms" are visible and there are not even hints. The terminator is so outdated that Americans and Europeans are testing similar cars. Oh storyteller ... About the 5th generation he laughed - it's f35, that in supersonic only in afterburner can we have the 5th generation? And you forgot to write "everything is gone".
          1. lopuhan2006
            lopuhan2006 18 December 2020 17: 51
            +2
            You live in fairy tales) F35 as a platform is so advanced that you may not be able to digest it. But the word urya overshadows your ears and mind
      2. Alexey G
        Alexey G 18 December 2020 09: 56
        +1
        I put a plus! You see, our man needs to fly and drive everyone on earth!
    3. lucul
      lucul 18 December 2020 08: 32
      -2
      What can Terminator oppose to a penny swarm of quadrics? ...like this.

      Are you sure this swarm will reach him? ))))
      1. lopuhan2006
        lopuhan2006 18 December 2020 08: 39
        -1
        Maybe the swarm will not reach (the rab is still strong with us), but pay attention to the latest methods of warfare. Ammunition from air defenses is knocked out cheaply, and then expensive ones achieve what they cannot answer. And Azerbaijan and Turkey are here as a small example, but Japan will be more serious.
        1. lucul
          lucul 18 December 2020 08: 59
          0
          Ammunition from air defenses is knocked out cheaply, and then expensive ones achieve what they cannot answer.

          Yeah, especially touches the swarm of "cheap" drones at a price more expensive than a tank, yeah))))
    4. Desperado
      Desperado 18 December 2020 09: 18
      +2
      I agree with my comrade, a very narrow specification for the car. It would be relevant to drive both Chechens and barmaleev, no more. In modern urban combat, 30mm is not enough. UAVs are not needed against potential opponents. Recent modern conflicts have shown that the future belongs to the UAV. Accordingly, the support vehicle must be sharpened for the near-zone air defense. The footage from the exercises is generally depressing, what's this? An attack by a tank company on an 80s NATO battalion position? Preparing for the last war again?
  10. rocket757
    rocket757 18 December 2020 08: 14
    0
    According to the latest information, the manufacturers have taken into account the shortcomings identified during the exercises conducted at the Terminator BMPT.

    Anyway, this technique for "peacetime" should have this, that, some of that, in a real battle, will no longer matter !!! But what exactly is needed in battle ... only battle can show.
    1. Old tanker
      Old tanker 18 December 2020 08: 29
      0
      So he showed in Syria. Before running in Syria, the Ministry of Defense stubbornly did not notice the Terminator.
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 18 December 2020 08: 33
        0
        So it would be interesting, indicative, to film the actual use of this technique in a more / less real battle.
        How and where it was used, we do not know ... we have to believe the stated, we are so ... naive.
        However, none of the manufacturers advertise the jambs that appeared in the conditions of serious tests ... which is quite justified if you look at it.
        1. Kart
          Kart 18 December 2020 11: 58
          -2
          Quote: rocket757
          How and where it was used, we do not know ... we have to believe the stated, we are so ... naive.

          I'm sorry.
          Indeed, how can you trust the specialists of our MO? There, as you know, some oligarchs.
          Of course, only the USA does not lie and the USSR did not lie. (by the way, where is he?)
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 18 December 2020 12: 14
            0
            Who wrote that our LIES?
            Quote: rocket757
            none of the manufacturers advertise the jambs that appeared in the conditions of serious tests ... which is quite justified if you look at it.

            Military secrets, commercial secrets, for official use and so on, so on ... you need to figure it out.
  11. Escobar
    Escobar 18 December 2020 08: 29
    +3

    According to the latest information, the shortcomings identified during the exercises conducted on the BMPT Terminator were taken into account by the manufacturers
    if they really were taken into account, how in such a short time? In the same place, the entire combat module needs to be redrawn. If they do not have enough missiles and armor to protect the ammo and they added it, then the weight of this splendor should increase, as a result of which it will be necessary to install new more powerful guidance drives.
  12. Graz
    Graz 18 December 2020 08: 35
    +2
    However, earlier materials appeared in open sources that one of them may be insufficient for modern combat the ammunition of anti-tank missiles. It consisted in the original versions of the "Terminator" of 4 "Attack-T" ammunition, spending which the BMPT crew had to switch to the use of automatic cannons. And on some 30 mm cannons with the support of tanks, as they say, you can't go far today.


    it's strange to read this, because the name of the car clearly states that this is a SUPPORT car, that is. the basis of the battle should be a tank, not an BMPT (on which for some reason the main bias is made here), it was created to a greater extent anti-personnel, with automatic rapid-fire shooters and automatic grenade launchers
  13. 7,62h54
    7,62h54 18 December 2020 09: 01
    +1
    On December 1, they announced the start of trial operation, and have already identified shortcomings. Very quickly, it pleases that they do not stretch in time. We hope that the elimination of the shortcomings will be carried out as quickly as possible.
    1. Graz
      Graz 18 December 2020 09: 08
      +1
      Kazakhstan and Algeria sold similar machines long ago, who prevented them from sending people there as specialists who would look at the shortcomings of equipment during exercises and during operation. lost in fact a lot of time, a frivolous approach.
      1. 7,62h54
        7,62h54 18 December 2020 09: 10
        +1
        Your comments will be taken into account
  14. APASUS
    APASUS 18 December 2020 09: 24
    0
    This is already the modernization potential of technology must be revealed. In fact, the very idea of ​​supporting the tank has been implemented, and the number of missiles, the booking of the main components, all this is eliminated when deficiencies are identified.
  15. prior
    prior 18 December 2020 09: 25
    +1
    The main disadvantage of the Terminator is that it does not fly.
  16. 416D
    416D 18 December 2020 09: 34
    +1
    I apologize in advance for the stupid question. If a tank support vehicle is so needed, would it not be more expedient to adapt the warhead from the Tunguska-M1 to the T72 chassis? remove the radar, install remote sensing, etc.
  17. Ross xnumx
    Ross xnumx 18 December 2020 09: 43
    -1
    BMPT "Terminator" - a necessary vehicle, simply necessary in the specific conditions of urban combat. But let me tell you how to understand this:
    The Deputy Minister of Defense did not specify, what specific shortcomings are we talking about. However, earlier in open sources there were materials that one of them may be insufficient for modern combat anti-tank missile ammunition.

    And that he was personally behind the levers or fired from the available weapons? Perhaps the commanders of the vehicles told him personally about this? Most likely, as is usual in the army, the report went along a chain, as in that joke about the drill.
    I would be interested in the analysis of performance characteristics from direct specialists. What is there a lot, what is there little ... What caliber is better.
    In the 80s, when it was necessary to fire from the AGS-17 on the move (from short stops), the commander of the grenade launcher platoon simply welded the grips for the machine to the armor ... Then the battalion commander wondered for a long time how Yasha could quickly fire at given targets ...
    One thing makes me happy: the shortcomings are revealed, which means they will be eliminated. And yet, from the couch, you can see better, "how many calibers and flamethrowers you need to put in the ammunition after threshing the plow" ... wassat
  18. chenia
    chenia 18 December 2020 10: 11
    +1
    Several channels of fire are needed. ATGMs can be hidden in fenders (and this secondary weapon - BMPT works with tanks and their work on heavily armored vehicles).
    The main task of the BMPT is trench "rascals", crawling out after the transfer of fire (fire curtain OF or PSO). Our infantry at this time is 400 meters from the object of attack and 200 meters from the tanks. And the BMPT is in the same battle line with the tanks.
    So, the PMPT must organize a downpour of fire from machine guns and light grenades (AG).
  19. Lesorub
    Lesorub 18 December 2020 12: 43
    +2
    It consisted in the original versions of the "Terminator" of 4 "Attack-T" ammunition, spending which the BMPT crew had to switch to the use of automatic cannons. And on some 30 mm cannons with the support of tanks, as they say, you can't go far today.

    I still did not understand the author's conclusion - I used up the ATGM - it remains to switch to the use of 30 mm guns - WHY is this - the missiles have their own purpose, the guns have their own! Or is the author on the Terminator rocket the main armament, and the auxiliary guns ?!)
    1. svp67
      svp67 18 December 2020 14: 26
      +1
      Quote: Lesorub
      missiles have their own targets, guns have their own

      Yes, yes ... only when the missiles run out, and there are only four of them, then you will have to fire from cannons at armored targets. But here I do not understand, but WHY?
      This machine, in this form, has a surplus of weapons. If it is a tank support vehicle, then now it would be better to concentrate on the creation of robotic systems, which should be smaller in size, and most importantly, there should be more of them, at least a couple for each tank and they should be controlled in battle by the tank commander, that is to be able to quickly set them tasks to suppress or destroy a target threatening a tank, that would be a really huge breakthrough, both in tactics and in the development of tank units.
      But such a machine that is now must be re-profiled, one machine per platoon, to defend the unit from modern flying dangers.
      1. Lesorub
        Lesorub 18 December 2020 14: 42
        +3
        Quote: svp67
        Yes, yes ... only when the missiles run out, and there are only four of them, then you will have to fire from cannons at armored targets. But here I do not understand, but WHY?
        This machine, in this form, has a surplus of weapons. If it is a tank support vehicle, then now it would be better to concentrate on the creation of robotic complexes,

        You are right, the tank units added an enemy from the air, UAVs and their various analogs such as kamikaze - but the vehicle was originally created to combat tank-hazardous targets such as rocket launchers, and the ability to fire on the upper floors of buildings, plus the destruction of lightly armored targets - in any case, they will be refined - but the station wagon they won't make it out of it - probably this is a matter of the future.
  20. Dzafdet
    Dzafdet 18 December 2020 12: 44
    0
    BMPT does not fight with tanks. They are not meant for that. The main thing is to bring the car to mind ....
  21. polar fox
    polar fox 18 December 2020 13: 36
    +1
    and then the question is: when they ordered, did not consider how many ATGMs to put?
    1. Doliva63
      Doliva63 19 December 2020 05: 51
      +2
      Quote: polar fox
      and then the question is: when they ordered, did not consider how many ATGMs to put?

      So here the whole trick is that no one ordered this "miracle", this is an initiative development of UVZ in the lean years, when no one bought tanks from them. An absolutely unnecessary thing in the army. But, you see, it is very beneficial for someone to lobby.
  22. iouris
    iouris 18 December 2020 13: 48
    0
    All these problems are solved by including a combat trailer into the complex, where everything that is not pushed is crammed.
  23. Wolf
    Wolf 18 December 2020 18: 12
    0
    Bravo Lieutenant General Yunus-Bek Yevkurov.
  24. Just Arkady
    Just Arkady 18 December 2020 18: 22
    +3
    Why did you create this creation? Now they don't know where to cram it.
  25. tank64rus
    tank64rus 18 December 2020 18: 34
    0
    BMO weapons reconnaissance and fire system
    Patent No. 2658517. On the basis of our BMPT, the Chinese made their own called "The Chariot of Mars.", Where on the basis of our models they showed a complex of weapons located on the basis of BMPT, with standard UAVs, etc. And the car is promising. but the fact that before the war the artillerymen were hiding at shows from Marshal Kulik, which is unusual for us and Katyusha, since she did not act on him in her unusual appearance in the best way. Later, after the war, he was remembered.
    1. Thomas N.
      Thomas N. 20 December 2020 09: 28
      0
      Quote: tank64rus
      BMO weapons reconnaissance and fire system
      Patent No. 2658517. On the basis of our BMPT, the Chinese made their own, called the "Chariot of Mars." And the car is promising.

      Is it QN-506 or what? "The new king of land warfare"? laughing So this is a "concept", assembled for the exhibition "from pine forest to pine". I think that in it there are only the sights with which the firm (Wuhan Guide Infrared) has collected and is engaged in this "cuttlefish". Well, the cannon and the drones are probably real. The rest is layout. This "king" has already crawled into computer toys, and will remain there forever.
  26. John22
    John22 18 December 2020 18: 39
    0
    But what the general did not notice that the BMPT is being used for other purposes? BMPT is not needed in the field, where tanks, with good organization and reconnaissance, after artillery shelling of enemy positions and covered with a smoke screen, will destroy distant targets themselves. BMPTs are needed against infantry with RPGs in urban - village buildings, where the visibility of tanks deteriorates. There you need 30 mm cannons and grenade launchers with machine guns. And ATGM is in extreme cases, tanks have more shells. The protection of ATGMs, gun barrels and sights must be improved against large-caliber bullets and shrapnel. Where there are corners and attics there BMPT and must show itself - the experience of local wars yells about it. And where did they shoot in the field?
    1. quaric
      quaric 18 December 2020 19: 59
      +1
      You are fundamentally wrong. In the city, BMPT becomes completely useless, as it is not capable of destroying even the slightest bit of solid concrete structure. Believe me, I have seen with my own eyes how the BMP-2 tried to destroy the firing point behind the usual foundation blocks, not to mention the meter-high foundation of modern high-rise buildings. It is useless, not effective for a long time. Plus the ability to detonate Attack missiles from large-caliber rifle ammunition. No !!!! .... let's sell "terminators" to Indians, and keep tanks for ourselves.
      1. Sergey Sfiedu
        Sergey Sfiedu 19 December 2020 21: 59
        0
        The Germans in the past came up with the "Sturmtiger" - the very thing for the city.
  27. senima56
    senima56 18 December 2020 19: 14
    0
    I believe that one 57mm cannon is more effective than two 30mm cannons. At least by the power of the projectile. As for the 4 Attack missiles, this is quite enough for a tank support vehicle. This is still not a "tank destroyer", where missiles will always be in short supply!
  28. Aleks2048
    Aleks2048 18 December 2020 20: 50
    +1
    anti-tank missile ammunition insufficient for modern combat.

    4 rockets much more then? In general, the terminator is a tank support vehicle, and not a fighter with other heavily armored targets, and if so, then the available missiles should be considered as a means of extreme self-defense.
    In my opinion, a couple of missiles can even be abandoned by installing a small reconnaissance UAV. Ideally, increase the cannon ammo. Replace one of the cannons with 57 mm. Adapt to network-centric warfare and there will be norms.
  29. RED_ICE
    RED_ICE 18 December 2020 21: 25
    0
    They will take it into service. Not the first time)
  30. Bodipancher
    Bodipancher 18 December 2020 22: 21
    +3
    The Terminator is a well-armored Shilka, the tasks are the same. Sweep away the enemy with a mass of lead, without bothering too much with accuracy. Therefore, you need a very solid ammunition, a good cooling system and cheap ammunition. For more secure purposes ATM. So I think the AGS and the two extra crew members will disappear. Will appear 7.62 or 12.7 on the commander's cupola like a tank. If they teach how to work on UAVs, there will be a class. Development will go towards improving optics and control systems, with elements of robotization For example, the tower will automatically unfold, and the cannons will be guided in response to flashes of shots or laser beam irradiation. Large calibers and expensive ammunition are useless for such a machine.
  31. yehat2
    yehat2 18 December 2020 23: 58
    +2
    the idea is relevant, but here's the implementation ... there are continuous problems in the terminator!
    the weaponry does not at all correspond to its intended role. This is a clearing machine for guerrillas, not tank support.
  32. SVD68
    SVD68 19 December 2020 08: 35
    +1
    Well, they revealed some flaws. Did you reveal the advantages?
    And then they say the ATGM ammunition is small. Or 30mm cannons are weak. So replace them with a 125mm tank gun. And there will be order with the size of the ammunition and the power of the shot.
    The question is not about the shortcomings, but about the presence of advantages over the tank.
  33. Konnick
    Konnick 19 December 2020 09: 16
    -1
    "... is it a dog?" a phrase from Yeralash, then a crocodile turned out of a dog ... They stuffed everything they could, reminded me of multi-turret tanks. The most important test was not carried out - shelling from all types of small arms. I'm afraid this module cannot be used closer than 2 kilometers from the enemy, all birdhouses and naked unprotected weapons will quickly become unusable. We need a classic armored turret with stabilization and the smallest possible size of optical devices, and as Stalin said - "We need one gun, but a good one." For battles in urban areas, such modular weapons are not suitable; it would be better to use an automatic grenade launcher with a large ammunition capacity in a protected tower and the ability to conduct mounted fire at short distances, such as a 50-mm company mortar with a remote crane. And against tanks, you need a rocket tank with an ATGM with a vertical launch, but that's another story ... you need to think about it, and not invent a vinaigrette from purchased ingredients.
  34. hostel
    hostel 19 December 2020 09: 19
    +2
    It is strange why our generals were not puzzled by the creation of a full-fledged assault weapon? But this is Manstein's idea. The presence of a combat vehicle, as the main armament, a howitzer-cannon would greatly increase the firepower. Why can't Nona's artillery unit be used for this? In urban combat conditions, this will allow spawning targets behind buildings and other shelters, and in the field on the opposite slopes of heights.
  35. Diverter
    Diverter 19 December 2020 17: 37
    0
    My vision: the grenade launchers are rigidly attached to the back of the turret. Respectively removing two crew members. The released weight in terms of carrying capacity should be directed to the installation of ATGM armor screens.
    By composition:
    1 platoon: T-72/90, a pair of BMPTs.
    2nd platoon: three TBMP (like BMO-T)
    3rd platoon: a pair of ACS Akatsiya and Tunguska.
    4th platoon: management, etc.
    The strike company is ready.
    Or am I sick?))
    1. Thomas N.
      Thomas N. 20 December 2020 09: 36
      0
      Quote: Saboteur
      The released weight in terms of carrying capacity should be directed to the installation of ATGM armor screens.

      And those ATGM screens that are clearly visible in the photos and videos in this news, that there is not enough armor?
      1. Diverter
        Diverter 20 December 2020 19: 47
        0
        it meant that the number of ATGMs would be increased and the increased ammunition would need protection.
  36. Thomas N.
    Thomas N. 20 December 2020 06: 00
    0
    General Yevkurov noted on the air of TK Zvezda that a special experiment had been carried out for the latest tank support combat vehicle. It involved nine units of the BMPT "Terminator". According to Evkurov, these were severe tests for a combat vehicle, and during these tests, shortcomings were identified.
    The Deputy Minister of Defense did not specify what specific shortcomings were in question. However, earlier in open sources there were materials that one of them may be insufficient for modern combat anti-tank missile ammunition.

    The lack of "ammunition of anti-tank missiles insufficient for modern combat" cannot be identified in tests during which anti-tank guided missiles were not installed on launchers. This is clearly seen in the video "Running in the BMPT" Terminator "entered for trial operation in the guards tank division of the Central Military District", posted at the end of this news. The launchers are empty and, accordingly, not a single launch. Shooting only from cannons, and only from one at a time.
  37. Givi_49
    Givi_49 20 December 2020 20: 26
    0
    Normal work. So the customer will better understand what he ordered and what he really needs. At the same time, I hope, there will be outlines of tactics for the basis of combat interaction - I consider this to be the most important, since there is no absolute weapon. Good luck to everyone who supports the tanks with fire and maneuver!
  38. Victor Tsenin
    Victor Tsenin 21 December 2020 10: 28
    0
    In theory, the terminator would have a turret box with vertically launching missiles, because it seems that everything mounted on the BMPT turret is too weakly protected and will be demolished / disfigured at the first meeting with an enemy.
  39. Vlad Vlad (Shimas)
    Vlad Vlad (Shimas) 22 December 2020 00: 27
    0
    I think its main drawback is its uselessness. what is it for? now heavy tracked infantry fighting vehicles can do the same as the terminator, and even the infantry is being carried. the same marauder, puma or delirium. we have t15 or kurganets or wheeled boomerang. the weapon module is the same. it would be better if they were brought to mind and mass-produced.