Military Review

Stillborn 80.002 Shooting Complex

Probably not for anyone newsthat many of the ideas proposed by Soviet gunsmiths were rejected at the initial stage, and after a few years firearm samples appeared abroad weapons similar in design, but already brought to the ideal. Naturally, such a phenomenon in most cases is clearly negative, but there were often situations where the weapon was really hopeless, and its development was an obvious waste of time and money. So at the end of the 80-s in the United States began work on the complex machine-grenade launcher with a shot of 25 caliber and 20 millimeters. Seeming then promising, the development did not meet all expectations, but more on that below. Much more interesting is that they tried to create something similar in the USSR as early as 1973, that is, roughly speaking, 15 years earlier, tried to create and abandoned this idea.

To begin with, let's briefly go over what the Americans got from their development, so to speak, so that there is something to compare with. The basis of such weapons in the United States, developed under the OICW program, was a programmable shot in two versions - 20 caliber of millimeters and 25 of millimeters. Naturally, everyone understood the lower efficiency of such a munition in comparison with 40 millimeter shots, which is why it was not a completely conventional design. The fact is that the fuse of such a shot is programmable in time. Weapons for such shots are equipped with a range finder, with which the distance to the target is measured, the flight speed is known, respectively, it is not difficult for the electronics to automatically calculate the flight time for which the projectile will reach the target and transfer this time to the fuse. Thus, the explosion takes place on the approach to the target, which significantly increases the effectiveness of such ammunition.

And everything would be great if it were not for the small weight of the fragments of a similar shot, which negate the effectiveness of the ammunition. Many weapons were created on the basis of this munition, and even an attempt was made to create such a hybrid as a grenade launcher and a sniper rifle, but this did not lead to anything good. Perhaps the only more or less justifiable weapon for a given ammunition is the XM307 grenade launcher, which in a few minutes can become an XM312 - a large-caliber machine gun for the .50BMG cartridges. Using 25 millimeter shots, this grenade launcher shoots 250 shots per minute, which makes it quite effective, however, with a fairly high cost of one shot, the advantages of this ammunition and weapons for it become significantly less. It should be noted that a similar idea migrated to many other countries, for example, in South Korea, the Daewoo K11 complex was being developed, the future of which is also unknown. In other words, the future of such ammunition and weapons to it is already known, and, most likely, they will have no future, which cannot but cause a malevolent smirk, since it took 20 years for US military officials to understand this.

In our country, this process took place much more quickly. So the very idea of ​​reducing the caliber of shots was born in the 1973 year, it was then that V. S. Yakushev suggested creating an automatic-grenade launcher complex for non-standard shots of a smaller caliber. It is not clear for what reasons, but they decided to make a shot in caliber 12,7 millimeters, but not on the basis of the cartridge 12,7х108, as usually written in specialized publications. The new shot was very similar to the large-caliber subsonic cartridge SP-130 and the like. Looking ahead, there are suggestions that it was this shot that served as the basis for the 12,7x55 cartridges, which at least partially justified the development of the 80.002 rifle complex. Information on the 12,7 caliber shot of millimeters is really very small in open sources, the only thing that can be said is that without a doubt this ammunition was very, very weak. However, if hit directly on the enemy, the effect would be significant, but the effect from a bullet hit is, albeit not so large.

Officially, the development of weapons for this ammunition was conducted from 1975 to 1979 year. The result of this development was quite an interesting automaton, but it was not even brought to a more or less usable version. The basis for the new complex, as it is not difficult to guess, was the Kalashnikov 74 of the year. Without further ado, the weapon was made a wider receiver, in which a double bolt and a second barrel were placed under the new ammunition. If you look at the images of this weapon, it becomes clear that the model is very, very raw. First of all, there is a lack of windows for ejection of spent cartridges, but with the use of a sleeveless cartridge it is in no way connected, the fastest way to photograph was given only to the sample that was collected in order to see how all this ugliness will look. The presence of a double bolt in the weapon is also clearly not the final option, since it’s not at all clear how 80.002 can work with it, although you can fantasize about this topic, of course, but imagine how this piece of metal with a mass obviously more than one and a half kilogram will move with automatic fire, scary, and the 5,45x39 cartridge is unlikely to be enough to ensure the normal operation of the automation with a shutter of such a weight, unless, of course, a different principle of the operation of the weapon’s weapons other than AK was chosen.

In view of the fact that nothing is known about weapons at all, speculation and fantasies began to gather around him, so one of the most common assumptions is that in this type of weapon blank cartridges were used, not shots, the shots themselves were put on the second barrel of the weapon. If you look more closely, it becomes immediately clear that it is not possible to realize such an opportunity for the second barrel, since the barrels are very close to each other, and such an energy cartridge is not needed to launch the caliber shots. In addition, the ability to launch such ammunition was at the first barrel caliber 5,45. The second widespread opinion is that this version of the weapon did not have a grenade launcher at all, but used two types of ammunition, one of which was designed to damage lightly armored vehicles and protected enemy personnel with personal armor. This could have been believed to be faster, and the niche for using such weapons is quite obvious, but nevertheless it was a grenade launcher, although I personally don’t turn my tongue to call something X-mm caliber of a grenade launcher and ammunition with a shot, rather cartridge with bursting bullet. In proof that the weapon has a grenade launcher, you can bring separate sighting devices that are clearly intended for a grenade launcher.

As already described above, the weapon is actually two different devices that are placed in one body. The complex is supplied from separate stores with 5,45х39 cartridges with a capacity of 30 cartridges and grenade rounds of 12,7 caliber of millimeters with a capacity of 10 shots. Both stores are located in front of the trigger next to each other, which naturally has a negative effect on the convenience of a replacement, but this can easily be attributed to the fact that the model is experimental and would have somehow solved this problem if the idea had been further developed. But the development was not in view of the very low effectiveness of a grenade launcher shot and refused to develop further. In other words, in order to understand that a 40 millimeter shot is the minimum for a grenade launcher in the USSR it took less than 7 years, taking into account the time taken to manufacture weapons for this type of ammunition and the ammunition itself. But those who think that this time was wasted are deeply mistaken. Despite the fact that the project was officially stopped in the 1979 year, this prototype was used to refine many design solutions up to the 90s. And in 2002, this project back proved that the money was spent on it was not for nothing, because on the basis of the shot a special cartridge 12,7x55 appeared, which, I will note once again, is only a hunch that no one is in a hurry to confirm, but the similarity of ammunition is too explicit, so as not to notice.

Stillborn 80.002 Shooting ComplexIn general, of course, it is incorrect to compare simple 12,7 caliber shots of millimeters with programmable shots, since the ideas are essentially different, but the fact that reducing the caliber of the shot doesn’t lead to anything good proves both the first and second options. At this time, stopping the project to create new weapons really saved a lot of time and money, and as a result received from this development even more than in the US. Of course, you can nod at 20 caliber large-caliber sniper rifles millimeters, the range of ammunition includes high-explosive fragmentation projectiles, but even the effectiveness of such ammunition does not reach normal grenades, they are designed to damage equipment, or destroy light shells, such as brickwork but not for use instead of a full-fledged grenade launcher.

The use of electronics combined with 40 millimeter shots turned out to be a much more reasonable approach. I would like to note not everyone’s favorite FN F2000 and its further development, but the Australian rifle complex developed under the AIWC program, similar to the American one. As a result, on the basis of the Steyr AUG, a rather massive weapon with an awkward appearance was created, which fully equipped weighs 9,9 a kilogram. It is noted that the weapon is perfectly balanced, so overweight interferes only when it is worn, and when fired, the opposite effect is positive, making the complex stable. By the way, the weight of the weapon can be reduced if you remove a mini-computer from it which is both a night vision device and an optically sight and part of the development of "friend or foe" and what the hell. In this case, the basic principle of the weapon will not change. The range finder will still measure the distance to the target, count the flight time and transfer data to the fuse, well, the machine gun will shoot anyway, since by and large it is all the same Steyr AUG with a triple-charge grenade launcher. The question arises whether all this electronics is necessary in weapons, but that is already another история.

If we return to the 80.002 rifle complex, we would like to see its further development in the form of a machine gun, but without a grenade launcher, and with the additional possibility of using large-caliber cartridges, possibly even full-fledged 12,7x108. Such an opportunity would be useful if you hit targets protected by heavy body armor, stopping vehicles and other targets, it’s not always possible, and justified, to use 40 millimeter shots for this, and with the development of individual means of armor this possibility seems quite reasonable. At the same time, its implementation may not even require separate weapons, but may be made in the form of a removable device mounted under the barrel of the weapon, similar to a rifle grenade launcher. In other words, this project can be re-opened, but in a slightly different form.

Instead of PS
The Americans spent a lot of time and money on the development of a shot that would have exploded in the air, the shot itself turned out to be incredibly expensive to manufacture, and it also demanded a separate weapon. Domestic designers in the year 1979 was created shot VOG-25P, which could be used all in the same grenade launchers and which had absolutely no electronics in itself, not to mention the fact that by efficiency the domestic "foundling" leaves far behind all smart shots caliber 20 and 25 millimeters. Of course, abroad there are some “jumping” shots, the effectiveness of many of which is much higher than domestic ones, so a quite reasonable question arises, why was it necessary to spend so much money?

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  1. Civil
    Civil 17 August 2012 08: 44
    And in 2002, this project back proved that the money spent on it was not in vain, because on the basis of a shot a special cartridge 12,7x55 appeared for it, which, I note again, is only a hunch that no one is in a hurry to confirm, but the similarities the ammunition is too obvious to miss.

    the author hints at the ammunition for the ASH-12 .. by the way, and when will the article be about this heavy machine gun?
    1. scrabler
      17 August 2012 09: 21
      We will issue soon) Just not enough data yet. And this cartridge is used not only in ASh, but also in "Exhaust", or rather a slightly modified cartridge, as well as that and that 12,7x55.
  2. Joker
    Joker 17 August 2012 10: 56
    There are a lot of mistakes in the article, it’s clear that the patriot wrote that he loves his country, but the reality is that the Americans refused the complex, yes, only they separately buy grenade launchers with adjustable detonation distance and I delivered them a lot, I personally saw several soldiers with these weapons in Afghanistan when they watched American news and they didn’t pose in front of the camera but flickered in the background when the soldier was giving an interview. As for the cost, XM25 currently costs 35 thousand dollars, with the cost of a hand-made shell about 1 thousand dollars, in serial production, the price of a grenade launcher is expected to be 25 thousand dollars and a shell to 35 dollars apiece, and for the USA what is 35 dollars . That’s the result, no matter what kind of development we have, we closed them as usual on the 10 locks in the closet, and the Americans use it and believe me, this thing can make life easier for soldiers, especially in urban battles. and I don’t understand why to compare what is in service with the fact that it was never there, to make guesses about my crazy.
    1. marshes
      marshes 17 August 2012 11: 18
      Currently (the end of 2010) several pre-production samples of KhM25 grenade launchers are already undergoing field tests in the combat conditions of Afghanistan.
      The XM25 25mm grenade launcher was born out of the division of the modular 20mm / 5.56mm XM29OICW system into two separate components - the 5.56mm XM8 modular assault rifle and the 25mm electronic sighting grenade launcher. This division was caused by the decision to increase the caliber of the grenade launcher part of the complex from 20 to 25mm, to increase the effectiveness of the shot in both conventional and non-lethal (non-lethal) equipment, as well as to unify the shot at the warhead with the 25mm ammunition under development and for the XM307 OCSW automatic heavy grenade launcher. With an increase in caliber, the mass of the grenade launcher module and ammunition also increased, so that the mass of the complex XM29 weapon turned out to be excessive and it was decided to split it into two separate systems. In principle, it is not excluded that in the future, as a result of reducing the mass of the component, it will again be possible to combine a compact machine gun, a grenade launcher and an aiming module into one sample. In the current configuration, the XM25 will assume that the grenade launcher has any separate self-defense weapon - a pistol or a shortened machine gun. The main purpose of the KhM25 is to expand and supplement the infantry's firepower at the squad level. It is assumed that this system will complement such fire support available at the compartment level as 40mm grenade launchers (M203 or XM320) and M249SAW light machine guns. Thanks to the use of the XM104 combined sighting system, which combines day and night channels, a laser rangefinder, a ballistic computer, a compass and external interfaces, the XM25 will increase the effectiveness of hitting targets in comparison with the existing 40mm grenade launchers by 3-5 times. The aiming range of a 25mm grenade will be up to 500 meters for point targets (house window, machine-gun nest, etc.) and up to 700 meters for area targets. The main type of ammunition for the XM25 will be a HEAB (High Explosive AirBursting) grenade - high-explosive fragmentation with air remote detonation. The blast distance will be programmed automatically according to the laser rangefinder data immediately before the shot. If necessary (including if the aiming system fails), HEAB-type grenades can be used in shock detonation mode (with a direct hit on the target). In addition to HEAB grenades for the XM25, it is planned to use shots with warheads of other types, including: thermobaric (volumetric explosion), armor-piercing cumulative (armor penetration up to 50mm), cluster melee (equipped with arrow-shaped striking elements), non-lethal action (with tear gas or rubber "bullets").
      1. Alexey Prikazchikov
        Alexey Prikazchikov 17 August 2012 13: 36
        Oh, we are. It remains only to envy.
    2. scrabler
      17 August 2012 12: 47
      I agree that I am a little overpowered in comparison with domestic 12,7 mm shots, yet the principle of operation is different. But I compared in the context of reducing the caliber of the shot, hence reducing its weight, and hence reducing the weight of the fragments. For example, the following experiment was carried out. The full-height dummy was covered with a blanket and placed behind the model wall with a window opening. After the shot, the blanket was removed and, oh, a miracle, the dummy had no serious damage. Well, is it a shot from the fragments of which you can take cover with a blanket? Naturally, if the mannequin were placed in a small room, the effect would have been better, but still not comparable to 40 millimeter shots, which, by the way, Americans will have better than domestic ones. Under the conditions of the city and 40, a millimeter shot would not cause much harm to buildings, but if it hits the window, then those in the room will be clearly unpleasant. Another thing is that throwing it out the window can be a problem, but the Australians have found a simple solution - they made an analogue of the OICW program, but already with 40 millimeter ammunition, which also has a programmable fuse, and the computer traces its flight with all the amendments. In general, nothing went the way of reducing the caliber, spent a lot of money and time, as a result we got no idea what. Well, about the fact that such weapons are sent to the troops, the money spent must somehow be beaten off. Production contracts have already been concluded, to break them off, only to lose even more money, so people get smart shots along with weapons for them, at a very high price. Well, not for recycling to let. есть момент на 0:47 где видно как осколки попадают после разрыва выстрела вот и прикиньте насколько такой боеприпас эффективен. Конечно если забрасывать противника десятками таких выстрелов, то эффект будет, но даже 35 долларов за 1 выстрел... 350 за 10... 3500 за 100, не понимаю я такой математики)))
      1. Korvin
        Korvin 18 August 2012 15: 11
        When casting dozens, when the program had an oops with fragmentation efficiency, I also thought that a little increase in the effectiveness of 20mm blanks would be possible if the grenade launcher shot in short bursts of 2-3 grenades, but this would lead to an increase in the store to at least 10-12 grenades , intolerance to recoil when firing bursts and money spent on ammunition, which in total completely deprived the point of using smart grenades.
  3. jak
    jak 17 August 2012 13: 51
    TAAS and IDF present a new striking force for the infantry: the Refaim grenade launcher

    "The strike force of infantry units has always been a serious problem," journalist Amir Bar-Shalom writes in the online magazine New-Tech Military Magazine, stressing that in battles in urbanized areas, infantrymen have to call in artillery and tanks to "smoke out" the enemy from the fortified point. All heavy weapons created for infantry in the XNUMXth century - shoulder rockets, grenade launchers, heavy machine guns - are not very efficient and accurate.

    In the Maariv newspaper, Amir Bukhbut notes that any infantryman who has used an M-203 grenade launcher knows that hitting a target with it the first time is not an easy task, but almost impossible to hit a moving target.

    It is this problem that in the past three years has been occupied by specialists from the IDF weapons department and engineers from the Defense Industry Concern (TAAS), who were fulfilling the order of Chief of General Staff Gabi Ashkenazi.

    The result of their work was the new "Refaim" rifle grenade launcher, which was undergoing the last tests these days, created on the basis of the "Tavor" machine gun and providing the infantryman with the capabilities of a light cannon.

    A grenade launcher using 40 mm grenades is capable of throwing them with high precision into a window at a distance of up to 100 meters. The system is equipped with a laser guidance system, a system for remembering targets, a satellite navigation system that allows a fighter to move from place to place without losing fixed targets.

    In addition, grenades for a grenade launcher are multifunctional, and can be used both against infantry (exploding in the air over an enemy who is lying down), and against armored vehicles or bunkers. An infantryman with a grenade launcher needs to fix a target, select a grenade response mode and fire. According to experts, the functionality of a modern tank shell was invested in an infantry grenade.
    1. Passing
      Passing 17 August 2012 15: 12
      jak, I still don’t understand, are the reafim grenades controlled or something, they are aimed at the laser spot? In the caliber 40 mm it sounds like a fantasy, something is not believed.
      1. jak
        jak 17 August 2012 17: 23
        It's not just grenades. The system itself is part of the “soldier of the future kit”.
        1. Passing
          Passing 17 August 2012 17: 53
          As far as I understand from your links, of course there is no guided grenade, but there is a system approximately similar to the American and Korean ones, i.e. air blast. And about laser guidance, this is in the sense that the aiming point marker is shifted from the optical axis of the sight to correct range and other parameters.
          1. jak
            jak 17 August 2012 18: 20
            No, the grenades in the pallet are not controlled. Rephaim grenades are programmed for time and after explosion.
            Although, in theory, I do not think that there should be a serious technical (rather financial) problem to create a guided grenade for outboard shooting. Type mines 1K113 "Daredevil" in miniature.
  4. Brother Sarych
    Brother Sarych 17 August 2012 14: 26
    In my opinion - an absurd and stupid system! Why sculpt so different devices in one piece?
    All would be shaitan-cartoons for the fight against "strangers" and "bugs" to invent ...
  5. Darck
    Darck 17 August 2012 15: 12
    In my opinion - an absurd and stupid system! Why sculpt so different devices in one piece?
    All would be shaitan-cartoons for the fight against "strangers" and "bugs" to invent ...
    And why do rifle grenade launchers, shotguns, etc. are also molded on machine guns, etc. Also a stupid undertaking?
    1. Brother Sarych
      Brother Sarych 17 August 2012 18: 37
      Shotgun - yes, dope pure water!
      A single-shot grenade launcher is somewhat different from this device ...
      1. scrabler
        17 August 2012 19: 20
        Well, about the smooth-barreled trunnion, I do not quite agree with you. In the army, of course, incredible foolishness since in most cases there is no use for it. But, for example, as add. weapons for knocking out door locks is very useful for the police. So to speak, without wasting time and without removing hands from the main weapon. But doing this thing non-removable is a brute force; the trimmer is removable with a short barrel to completely cope with these tasks. Not every wooden door can be demolished with weight, and this case can be painful.
      2. Darck
        Darck 17 August 2012 19: 49
        Shotgun - yes, dope pure water!

        But the US military does not think so.
        A single-shot grenade launcher is somewhat different from this device ...
        But the fact remains, they stuck everything together. Or do you want to say that a single-shot grenade launcher attached to an automatic machine is the pinnacle of human evolution, and a multi-charged is a complete ass?
        But, for example, as an add. weapons for knocking out door locks are very useful for the police.
        Or when you raid homes and wet the Taliban out of it, these shotguns were tested in Afghanistan, they say it's super.
  6. Pimply
    Pimply 17 August 2012 15: 15
    Invalid comparison. Like fish and meat. Both can be eaten - and this is the only thing that unites them.

    Not all, even the most expensive developments, go into production in the form in which they were thought. Sometimes science simply has not reached the proper level to provide the necessary compactness or durability, sometimes other reasons. However, all these developments move science forward, and the developments are used in other systems. For example, in X25
    1. scrabler
      17 August 2012 16: 25
      In general, I completely agree that the comparison is incorrect, but in the US, too, it all started with a simple shot without electronics, small caliber. As far as I remember, the infantry school in Berling, formulated its proposal on such a projectile, adding that the electronics should only calculate its trajectory, and then invented an explosion in the air. So in general, it can be assumed that the domestic project would have resulted in something like that. It was only necessary to indicate this in the article, and I, as usual, gallop across Europe sad So it turned out that similar to the projects really only small-caliber ammunition. Hmm, blunted as they say (
  7. scrabler
    17 August 2012 20: 24
    By the way, about small shots to the grenade launcher. He began to dig actively the information about the ASH-12 for the article and came across the fact that the weapon could be equipped with a 3 charging-pistol-type grenade launcher. Judging from the image, this grenade launcher has a diameter of millimeters 50, and the question arises, aren't they using 12,7 millimeter shots in it, which was planned to be used in 80.002? Can someone know something specific? Thank you in advance smile And by the way, pay attention to the switches above the grenade launcher, they are obviously intended for something, well, not the latches of the device itself.
  8. Alexander
    Alexander 17 August 2012 22: 27
    And how much is this weapon, interesting, effective?
    1. scrabler
      17 August 2012 23: 08
      I can credit this video above. We’re looking at 47 seconds for efficiency when it comes to amerovsky 25 millimeter shots.
  9. Korvin
    Korvin 18 August 2012 15: 20
    The Americans were fascinated by the idea that, a bullet flying even a centimeter from the target doesn’t harm her, and a fragmentation shot even if the shooter misses it will damage it with fragments. Alas, at this stage of technical development, the damage from small-caliber grenades was almost as insignificant as in the case of a miss a bullet.
  10. Kukota
    Kukota 19 August 2012 21: 03
    "alas, at this stage of technical development"

    That's it. Do not forget - this caramultuk is called "X" - while the test of the pen. But where progress will lead the Americans (and bypass us), time will tell.