Military Review

Polish major named military lessons to be learned from the war in Karabakh

55

The tactics and strategy of warfare in Nagorno-Karabakh should not pass by the military training manuals. Lessons must be learned from this war.


The reason is that the hostilities, which went on for 44 days, had obvious differences from what was characteristic some 5-7 years ago. One of the distinguishing factors is the use of drones, which becomes virtually total and decisive in the course of the war.

Military experts in Poland are also discussing this topic. For example, a retired major in the Polish army Grzegorz Trzeczak, who previously commanded a squadron that also included drones, says that today the war has “moved into the third dimension,” and lessons need to be learned from it.

Grzegorz Trzeczak:

You should think about changing doctrines and rules. You need to understand whether the military is ready to counter an invisible enemy.

The major notes that this is also a psychological aspect. The same operator of the strike UAV only needs to press a button on the tablet for the enemy to suffer losses of dozens of servicemen.

This can be perceived as part of a computer game, and therefore the overall responsibility can be reduced. The enemy is perceived as a character from the "shooter", which is easy to destroy. In the same way, civilian objects are perceived, which can accidentally fall under a blow that is not perceived as real.

A retired Polish Armed Forces officer notes that the war in Karabakh raises the question of the need for special training for drone operators.

The major also stressed that in modern warfare, drones can be used not only as strike or reconnaissance means, but also as a means to "bait" enemy air defense - to identify the locations of air defense means.

Grzegorz Trzeczak:

A drone today can also be an ammunition circulating in three-dimensional space: it detected a target, struck at the moment most unexpected for the enemy, including at night.

Today, an increasing number of countries are thinking about purchasing drones of various types in order to strengthen their aviation component.
Photos used:
Ministry of Defense of Azerbaijan
55 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. rocket757
    rocket757 16 December 2020 16: 35
    +7
    The tactics and strategy of warfare in Nagorno-Karabakh should not pass by the military training manuals. Lessons must be learned from this war.

    Thinking man's words .... though, this is NORMAL PRACTICE for all normal armies.
    1. Sidor Amenpodestovich
      Sidor Amenpodestovich 16 December 2020 16: 45
      +4
      Yeah, Major Obvious.
      1. nnm
        nnm 16 December 2020 16: 50
        +22
        For some reason, all such analysts stubbornly see only one side - the UAV. Nobody wants to analyze the state of the NKR air defense system as a system (more precisely, its absence) and predict its work in conditions of multilevel, controllability and mobility. Consider the qualifications of air defense calculations, the use of aviation to counter drones, impact on the control center, electronic warfare, etc. For such stubborn people, it is useful to watch a video about the work of a shell with a UAV in Syria and get acquainted with the statistics of countermeasures. Both in Iran and in Syria.
        And the feeling that they discovered some kind of wunderwaffe.
        In no case should one analyze the results of the confrontation so one-sidedly. Only a detailed and calm analysis of all sides. And only then the setting of tasks for the adjustment of the WSP, tactics, strategy, etc. Moreover, taking into account the possibilities of science, industry, economics, long-term planning of the development of weapons systems and changes in the methods of their use.
        1. Machito
          Machito 16 December 2020 17: 45
          +2
          Quote: nnm
          For some reason, all such analysts stubbornly see only one side - the UAV. Nobody wants to analyze the state of the NKR air defense system as a system (more precisely, its absence) and predict its work in conditions of multilevel, controllability and mobility. Consider the qualifications of air defense calculations, the use of aviation to counter drones, impact on the control center, electronic warfare, etc. For such stubborn people, it is useful to watch a video about the work of a shell with a UAV in Syria and get acquainted with the statistics of countermeasures. Both in Iran and in Syria.
          And the feeling that they discovered some kind of wunderwaffe.
          In no case should one analyze the results of the confrontation so one-sidedly. Only a detailed and calm analysis of all sides. And only then the setting of tasks for the adjustment of the WSP, tactics, strategy, etc. Moreover, taking into account the possibilities of science, industry, economics, long-term planning of the development of weapons systems and changes in the methods of their use.

          Russia in Syria is quite successfully fighting UAVs, but there were no Bayraktarov there. In local conflicts, such as the war in Donbass, in the absence of electronic warfare and air defense, drones can be of decisive importance.
          1. Herman 4223
            Herman 4223 16 December 2020 18: 02
            +7
            Key if absent and more can be added if misused. If there are no anti-tank weapons, then all will be crushed by tanks, and they will be filmed on camera. This is also obvious.
          2. nnm
            nnm 16 December 2020 18: 02
            +5
            Well, how was it not ?! Still as they were. And the photo is enough wreckage. Go to a profile resource, such as avia.pro and see. And there were Albatrosses, and TV2 bayrayktar ...
          3. Fungus
            Fungus 16 December 2020 18: 20
            +1
            The Syrians shot down the Bayraktars. There are pictures and saw quite a few. Although maybe ours helped the Syrians shoot down)
          4. ZAV69
            ZAV69 16 December 2020 23: 50
            +2
            Quote: Bearded
            but there was no Bayraktaro

            What, Bayroktar booked a cooler Il 2? It seems not. Is it going supersonic around the terrain at low altitude? Also no. So why is he so scary? Yes, there was simply no normal air defense in Karabakh and that's all ..... Turkey would give Bayraktar to the barmaley, they would have lost them all at once.
        2. golem
          golem 16 December 2020 18: 51
          +2
          Quote: nnm
          For some reason, all such analysts stubbornly see only one side - the UAV. Nobody wants to analyze the state of the NKR air defense system as a system (more precisely, its absence) and predict its work in conditions of multilevel, controllability and mobility. Consider the qualifications of air defense calculations, the use of aviation to counter drones, impact on the control center, electronic warfare, etc. For such stubborn people, it is useful to watch a video about the work of a shell with a UAV in Syria and get acquainted with the statistics of countermeasures. Both in Iran and in Syria.
          And the feeling that they discovered some kind of wunderwaffe.
          In no case should one analyze the results of the confrontation so one-sidedly. Only a detailed and calm analysis of all sides. And only then the setting of tasks for the adjustment of the WSP, tactics, strategy, etc. Moreover, taking into account the possibilities of science, industry, economics, long-term planning of the development of weapons systems and changes in the methods of their use.


          The major spoke about this only to the author of the article. There was not enough time to listen to the end.
      2. Lech from Android.
        Lech from Android. 16 December 2020 16: 51
        +4
        Yeah, Major Obvious.

        This evidence did not reach Pashinyan in time.
        If a group of 20 Armenian soldiers is destroyed by a drone with one blow ... it means that something is wrong with the training of these soldiers ... who were not explained that it is necessary to constantly monitor the airspace and not accumulate in large groups.
        1. Nestor Vlakhovski
          Nestor Vlakhovski 16 December 2020 16: 59
          -19%
          This evidence did not reach Pashinyan in time.
          This obviousness has not yet reached the Russians; the level of tactical training is at the level of the middle of the last century.
          1. Sidor Amenpodestovich
            Sidor Amenpodestovich 16 December 2020 17: 05
            +3
            Quote: Nestor Vlahovski
            This obviousness has not yet reached the Russians; the level of tactical training is at the level of the middle of the last century.

            So, is Pashinyan an agent of the Kremlin? The real name is Pashinin ?! From this number ...
            1. Nestor Vlakhovski
              Nestor Vlakhovski 16 December 2020 17: 11
              -7
              Quote: Sidor Amenpodestovich
              Is Pashinyan an agent of the Kremlin? The real name is Pashinin ?!
              Keep in touch.
              1. Sidor Amenpodestovich
                Sidor Amenpodestovich 16 December 2020 17: 15
                +5
                Discard your social network address. You will certainly be in the know.
                1. Nestor Vlakhovski
                  Nestor Vlakhovski 16 December 2020 17: 20
                  -10%
                  Quote: Sidor Amenpodestovich
                  Skinte your social network address.

                  After a couple of comments, are you already making friends?
                  1. Sidor Amenpodestovich
                    Sidor Amenpodestovich 16 December 2020 17: 30
                    +4
                    Quote: Nestor Vlahovski
                    After a couple of comments, are you already making friends?

                    Not at all. Exclusively to keep you informed.
            2. Temples
              Temples 16 December 2020 17: 19
              +6
              Quote: Nestor Vlahovski
              This obviousness has not yet reached the Russians; the level of tactical training is at the level of the middle of the last century.

              It was in the middle of the last century that Russian soldiers trampled Poland under their boots. Then the Russian soldier reached Berlin.
              A scum such as Bandera and Hitler was destroyed by a Russian soldier.

              And today the Russian soldier is destroying the scum in Syria. If there is an order, the scum will be destroyed in the dill and in other habitats.
              And no matter whether you are dispersed or grouped.

              And pray to God that Putin is in Russia. He treats "partners" affectionately. Too liberal with the Nazis living in the Russian territories that seceded from our country after the cutting of Belovezhskiy.
              Imagine themselves as states.
          2. Lech from Android.
            Lech from Android. 16 December 2020 17: 10
            +1
            Well, you know better from the cache.
          3. Orange bigg
            Orange bigg 16 December 2020 17: 11
            +2
            Quote: Nestor Vlahovski
            This evidence did not reach Pashinyan in time.
            This obviousness has not yet reached the Russians; the level of tactical training is at the level of the middle of the last century.

            Who are you not Russian, you are ours, why are you trying to look at someone from a high point?
          4. Clear
            Clear 16 December 2020 20: 19
            +5
            Quote: Nestor Vlahovski
            this evidence did not arrive in time.
            This obviousness has not yet reached the Russians; the level of tactical training is at the level of the middle of the last century.

            With the past century's level of training, the Russians, like a click, "knocked out their teeth":
            - the invincible ISIS in Syria,
            - the coolest and most prepared by the thugs of the USA and NATO of the Georgian army,
            - without a single shot they drove out of the Crimea "ready for anything" Bandera, along with the most powerful army in Europe,
            - in one day they dispersed the fighting Azerbaijanis and Armenians with their drones-shmon ...

            I can't even imagine what will happen if our guys raise their level of tactical training to ... the modern level lol
        2. zadorin1974
          zadorin1974 16 December 2020 17: 33
          +5
          Good Alexey. Let's not touch Pashinyan now. The taxi driver is a distant person to the army. But there are a lot of questions to the General Staff of Armenia. Judging by the videos, the Armenian infantry came to the positions as to a resort (this is already under strong pressure from Azerov aviation), where they were rolled out as they wanted Well, okay, the first week (well, you can learn it), so no, I didn't teach you anything. Does Armenia have fighter aircraft? Could you, after all, work on tractors, and not rely only on air defense? About the work of air defense in general, only emotions. Well, they could not from for the complexity of the relief to block the terrain of the radar-place the VNOS posts (not so difficult, which by the way is successfully used in the DPR).
      3. Intruder
        Intruder 16 December 2020 16: 56
        +1
        especially with its three-dimensionality of space, as the major forgot that we all live in 4-dimensional space-time :)
      4. Gato
        Gato 16 December 2020 17: 01
        +2
        Major Obvious

        Retired Major Obvious lol
      5. O. Bender
        O. Bender 16 December 2020 19: 53
        0
        With language removed. hi Besides (about) news, Poland has the smartest majors laughing
      6. bobba94
        bobba94 16 December 2020 23: 47
        +1
        A very shrewd Polish major
        Layered air defense of the Khmeimim base:
        1. S-400
        2. SAM S-200 Vega
        3. SAM Buk-M2E
        4.S-125 Pechora 2M
        5. SAM Osa-AKM
        6. ZRPK Pantsir-C1
    2. halpat
      halpat 17 December 2020 00: 27
      0
      AA why not a corporal? or corporal?
    3. AĞGURD
      AĞGURD 17 December 2020 06: 34
      -2
      Quote: Nestor Vlahovski
      The article is strange in content.
      On the one hand, the war for Nagorno-Karabakh did not show anything new, the Western coalition has been waging wars in an absolutely similar way for 20 years already. Back in the Second Iraqi War, Hussein's army was chopped into salad by drones.
      On the other hand, Poland has long been producing both reconnaissance and strike UAVs.
      The fear of the "irresponsibility of operators" is meaningless, precision weapons have already demonstrated in practice a multiple reduction in indirect losses in comparison with unguided weapons operating "in areas."

      it's not only about the issue, it's about the tactics of its use ... as I understand it, according to many comments, the REB and air defense was used enough, but the mountainous area played its role as specialists from the control center ... and perhaps, with initial interference, they took the drones away? that from the tranno on the set you can see how the drone attacked the air defense and the REB when they were in combat mode ... and what was interesting to me was one drone, as I understood, the scout removes or indicates the target, and the other drone destroys ... how does it work or should work
      I mean REB and air defense?
  2. iouris
    iouris 16 December 2020 16: 46
    +1
    Quote: "... a retired major in the Polish army" End of quote.
    Analytics to ... (put aside!) Came to mice.
    A retired goat drummer.
  3. aleks neym_2
    aleks neym_2 16 December 2020 16: 53
    +1
    Each battle is a test of military equipment. And also working out the tactics of its application: live a century - learn a century, and you will still remain a student! (preferably alive).
    1. Intruder
      Intruder 16 December 2020 16: 56
      +3
      And also working out the tactics of its application: live a century - learn a century, and you will still remain a student! (preferably alive).
      especially alive !!! And also without lethal wounds ...
      1. aleks neym_2
        aleks neym_2 16 December 2020 17: 22
        +5
        Maybe not in the subject, but the Yugoslav definitely showed his competent knowledge when he shot down the "Invisible". The mattress toppers have clearly sat down on their "fifth brain" point. The same will happen with drones - tactics and all cases will be worked out. There is no ideal weapon and will not be (science fiction writers do not count - they can do anything) An old saying; "There is always a cunning nut on a cunning bolt! With humor!
        1. Intruder
          Intruder 16 December 2020 17: 27
          -2
          The same will happen with drones - tactics and all cases will be worked out. There is no ideal weapon and will not be (science fiction writers do not count - they can do anything)
          Duc, this is an eternal process - "the confrontation between the sword and the shield" is a favorite game of smart and cunning primates on this planet, for several thousand years !? :)
  4. Thrifty
    Thrifty 16 December 2020 16: 53
    +1
    Well, exactly, a new deity has appeared to the world - an impact drone! How easy it is to list all its advantages and forget about the main thing - an unmanned aerial vehicle is a technique that is not only possible, but also must be able to eliminate in the presence of air defense means, especially an integrated air defense system!
    1. Intruder
      Intruder 16 December 2020 16: 58
      +1
      liquidate in the presence of air defense systems, especially an integrated air defense system!
      "our tanks are at their airfields ... "
  5. DymOk_v_dYmke
    DymOk_v_dYmke 16 December 2020 16: 54
    +2
    Seer. Only now has I truncated the three-dimensionality of the theater.
    And it was worth this Honduras i.e. To scratch Poland with its majors?
    1. aleks neym_2
      aleks neym_2 16 December 2020 17: 03
      +4
      Shame on you - compare the great Pan Major-Expert with Honduras - mattress makers will be offended and won't give you money!
  6. APASUS
    APASUS 16 December 2020 17: 06
    +1
    A little one-sided, the retired major of the Polish army Grzegorz Třechak perceived the military actions in Karabakh, did not indicate that the role of electronic warfare means, detection and counteraction systems is increasing in countering UAVs.
    1. Intruder
      Intruder 16 December 2020 17: 30
      0
      He did not indicate that the role of electronic warfare means is increasing in countering UAVs
      as long as they are tied to radio telemetry links, yes! But they will switch to an autonomous system with neurons and all sorts of algorithms for 3D-lidar terrain scanning, then the electronic warfare is already nervously and sideways! Although kinetic interception by a fragmentation field and heating by a coherent optical radiation flux has not been canceled yet ... :)
      1. OgnennyiKotik
        OgnennyiKotik 16 December 2020 17: 36
        -3
        Quote: Intruder
        then the electronic warfare is already nervous and will go away!

        Where did the electronic warfare help against the UAV?
        1. Intruder
          Intruder 16 December 2020 20: 18
          +1
          hypothetically bro laughing with the likelihood of well ... small, in ideal conditions of the landfill wink
      2. GKA72
        GKA72 16 December 2020 19: 20
        0
        now they will switch to an autonomous system with neurons and all sorts of algorithms for 3D-lidar scanning of the terrain, then the electronic warfare is already nervously and sideways!
        And the day of judgment will come, technology against people. It looks like the filmmakers of the Terminator were just wrong for 20 years.
        1. Intruder
          Intruder 16 December 2020 20: 38
          +1
          one smart person (by the way, a German physicist), said in the last century that: " after the third world war, people will fight with each other, with sticks and stones ..."So that after the Day of Judgment, electronic warfare is guaranteed not to be in service ... and the drones will be able to calmly and proudly soar on the Earth, shooting at the natives with the remaining ammunition units on the pylons of the external hardpoints ... wink
      3. APASUS
        APASUS 17 December 2020 10: 53
        0
        Quote: Intruder
        as long as they are tied to radio links with telemetry broadcast, yes! But they will switch to an autonomous system with neurons and all sorts of algorithms for 3D-lidar terrain scanning, then the electronic warfare is already nervously and sideways!

        It will not leave, but simply change the system of counteraction, on other principles.
  7. Nestor Vlakhovski
    Nestor Vlakhovski 16 December 2020 17: 10
    -5
    The article is strange in content.
    On the one hand, the war for Nagorno-Karabakh did not show anything new, the Western coalition has been waging wars in an absolutely similar way for 20 years already. Back in the Second Iraqi War, Hussein's army was chopped into salad by drones.
    On the other hand, Poland has long been producing both reconnaissance and strike UAVs.
    The fear of the "irresponsibility of operators" is meaningless, precision weapons have already demonstrated in practice a multiple reduction in indirect losses in comparison with unguided weapons operating "in areas."
    1. Intruder
      Intruder 16 December 2020 17: 33
      +2
      Back in the Second Iraqi War, Hussein's army was chopped into salad by drones
      and not only by them, there was everything in the complex, and he had all the old stuff left from the time of the Soviets, that's the result - a loop without soap!
      1. Nestor Vlakhovski
        Nestor Vlakhovski 17 December 2020 13: 51
        -1
        Indeed, in a complex, but it was the drones that proved that they are capable of the most effective means of engaging ground targets. It was after Iraq that advanced countries around the world rushed to develop their UAVs. The war in Karabakh only consolidated the old experience.
        and he has all the old stuff left from the Soviet times,
        is it you just now spat in the direction of the Russian army?
        At the time of the 90s, Hussein's army was armed with the best that could be bought outside the Western coalition. In all military ratings, the Iraqi army was consistently placed in top00 - top4 in terms of strength.
        And if the Soviet "analogue networks" could not do anything even then, what is their real value today ?! The question is rhetorical.
  8. 113262a
    113262a 16 December 2020 17: 29
    +1
    Why don't the Russian Federation buy a line of their drones from the Chosen One and test it. For now, at home or in Donbas? The Turks will not sell, but the cunning Jews will easily.
    1. OgnennyiKotik
      OgnennyiKotik 16 December 2020 17: 33
      0
      Quote: 113262
      Why don't the Russian Federation buy a line of their drones from the Chosen One and test it.

      So we buy and test. IAI Searcher Mk II and IAI Bird Eye 400 mini-satellites supplied by the plant to the Russian Armed Forces under the designations "Outpost" and "Zastava", respectively.
      1. frei67
        frei67 16 December 2020 17: 37
        0
        for the money that they ask for, we can rivet ourselves
        1. barium
          barium 16 December 2020 21: 01
          -4
          you don't rivet, for this you need brains, and money !!! neither one nor that is not !!!!!!!!!!
      2. 113262a
        113262a 17 December 2020 10: 32
        0
        I meant, to buy, and through Voentorg to spoil the mood of the non-brothers with the same patrolmen. That would be fun! )))
  9. tim195861
    tim195861 16 December 2020 17: 46
    +2
    "This obviousness has not reached the Russians so far ..." Another connoisseur of everything and everyone related to Russia. Surely, some maydanuty "hero", or his fan from behind a nearby fence. Also, all his life, he has been identifying those who prevent him from standing naskoryaku "ot morza do morza" ...
  10. Alexey Bobrin
    Alexey Bobrin 16 December 2020 19: 49
    +2
    There is only one conclusion to be drawn from this! Learn and learn military science!
  11. tolmachiev51
    tolmachiev51 17 December 2020 04: 29
    0
    The clever retired major - his eyes "opened" to the Armenians. Why they "merged" so ineptly !!!
  12. AĞGURD
    AĞGURD 17 December 2020 06: 05
    -1
    [quote = ZAV69] [quote = Bearded] but there was no Bayraktaro [/ quote]
    And what, Bayroktar booked a cooler Il 2? It seems not. Is it going supersonic around the terrain at low altitude? Also no. So why is he so scary? Yes, there simply was no normal air defense in Karabakh and that's all ..... Turkey would give Bayraktar to the barmaley, they would have lost them all at once [quote = Temples] [quote = Nestor Vlakhovski] This obviousness has not reached the Russians so far, the level of tactical training is at the level of the middle of the last century. [/ quote]
    It was in the middle of the last century that Russian soldiers trampled Poland under their boots. Then the Russian soldier reached Berlin.
    A scum such as Bandera and Hitler was destroyed by a Russian soldier.

    And today the Russian soldier is destroying the scum in Syria. If there is an order, the scum will be destroyed in the dill and in other habitats.
    And no matter whether you are dispersed or grouped.

    And pray to God that Putin is in Russia. He treats "partners" affectionately. Too liberal with the Nazis living in the Russian territories that seceded from our country after the cutting of Belovezhskiy.
    Imagine themselves as states. [/ Quote]
    temples pray to God, it’s better that there is an Internet where people like you can hide somewhere out there and swear all sorts of nonsense and scare the rest ... you are most likely Armenian or of Armenian blood ... the train of thought is very similar ... you are a sofa drunk and not Russian ... any Russian will tell you what kind of wars or achievements by nationality Russian was the only participant ... even in the country's leadership, people from other nations have been buying all their lives, not to mention the army ... you probably wanted to say Russia ... but it wasn't enough for you to insult everyone around you decided to ascribe all their achievements to yourself ... but as a failure, failure is the inept or everyone and even nature are to blame, but not you ... well, how do you differ from the thinking of many Armenians aaa ...? if you're a schoolboy, okay then ... but if you are an adult then be ashamed of your comment ... go think about what you write if you are Russian of course ...