Military Review

Soviet military bases abroad, it's time to regain lost positions

155

A mighty oceanic fleet, a developed air force, powerful ground forces ... What's the use of all this, if all the armed forces of the state are tightly "locked" within its borders and, accordingly, can be used exclusively to repel external aggression after it has been committed ... For the Soviet Union, this state of affairs, of course, was unacceptable. It was because of this that his military outposts were located, in fact, all over the globe, in all parts of the world.


At the same time, it is necessary to separate the places of permanent deployment of significant contingents of the Soviet army and those strong points, without which long ocean voyages, transcontinental flights and the like would be impossible. Our country had a sufficient number of modern warships and aircraft capable of performing tasks of any complexity far from their native land, however, all of them needed such prosaic things as refueling, repairs and temporary basing points.

The USSR had the largest military groupings in the countries of Eastern Europe - the GDR, Poland, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, as well as in Asia - in Mongolia. Separate история was with a limited contingent of Soviet troops in Afghanistan, which was engaged in real hostilities. In other places, everything was more or less peaceful. For example, in Cuba, our military firmly established itself during the famous Cuban missile crisis. Then our ballistic nuclear missiles ended up there, which almost caused the outbreak of the Third World War.

Atomic weapon over time, they were withdrawn, but the GVSK - a group of military specialists of the USSR remained in Cuba. Due to its close proximity to the United States, it was used not only as a base for the naval fleet (ports of Havana and Cienfuegos), but also, first of all, as one of the outposts of electronic warfare against the main "potential enemy". It was painfully easy to intercept the staff of the Priboi communications center, which had very specific functions, built in the city of El-Gabriel.

Another object that made the US military command very nervous was the Vietnamese Cam Ranh, which, by the way, was at one time an American military base. The command of the American Pacific Fleet could only grind its teeth, seeing the port, which could accommodate a dozen surface combat and support ships and 8 submarines. In addition to this, the Cam Ranh airfield received strategic bombers, not to mention fighter and reconnaissance aviation... With an area of ​​up to hundreds of square kilometers and personnel, whose number at different times ranged from 6 to 10 thousand people, it was a real outpost in Southeast Asia.

As a matter of fact, none of the places outside the borders of the USSR, where our pilots, sailors, signalmen and other "specialists" were quartered, was ever called a military base. The point here was the official Soviet ideology, within which this name was tightly linked to the "aggressive policy of the United States and NATO." Our facilities were named much more modestly - for example, points of material and technical support. This, however, in no way meant that such places were a couple of docks or hangars, where only technicians in filthy overalls scurried about. Not at all.

At various periods of time, PMTOs, mainly belonging to the USSR Navy, were present in the most remote and exotic parts of the planet. Seychelles (Victoria), Egypt (Alexandria, Mersa Martuh), Libya (Tripoli and Tobruk), Syria (Tartus and Latakia) ... The Black Continent and the Arabian Peninsula were not badly "covered" - our military facilities operated in Angola (Luanda ), Ethiopia (Dahlak), Guinea (Conakry), Tunisia (Sfax and Bizerta), Yemen (Aden and Socotra).

Today, alas, little is left of this list. Almost nothing. It's time to regain the lost ground.

And the increasingly frequent talk about the need for Russia to return to itself, if not all, but at least some of the foreign military facilities have every reason. Without distant outposts, our country is unlikely to be able to claim the status of a serious geopolitical player in the future.

And a new step in this direction has been taken. We are talking about an agreement with the Sudanese authorities on the deployment of a Russian naval logistics center on the shores of the Red Sea.

It is clear that today Russia a priori does not have the military and financial resources that the USSR had, and therefore it is unrealistic (and hardly advisable) to "scatter" bases (or the same MTO points) around the world, but the appearance of such in strategically important points of the world - an option that clearly cannot be neglected.
Author:
Photos used:
Wikipedia / Vlad - KAM-Ran, Soviet Tu-142 at the Cam Ran airfield
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  1. Svarog
    Svarog 16 December 2020 16: 16
    +22
    It is clear that today Russia a priori does not have the military and financial resources that the USSR had, and therefore it is unrealistic (and hardly advisable) to "scatter" bases (or the same MTO points) around the world.

    Here you still need to understand the difference .. between the USSR and the Russian Federation .. Then the socialist state defended its people and the interests of the allies .. and now we protect the interests of the oligarchs at the expense of citizens, whose incomes (citizens) are constantly falling, and the population is rapidly declining.
    1. aleksejkabanets
      aleksejkabanets 16 December 2020 16: 24
      +14
      hi
      Quote: Svarog
      at the expense of citizens, whose incomes (citizens) are constantly falling, and the population is rapidly declining.

      It does not decline, but shows negative growth. Do not write spiritually, Colleague.
      1. Sling cutter
        Sling cutter 16 December 2020 16: 30
        +14
        Quote: aleksejkabanets
        Do not write spiritually, Colleague.

        Svarog acted as an extensor of the braces good laughing
      2. zenion
        zenion 16 December 2020 18: 28
        +2
        But if you add two minuses, you get plus minuses.
        1. Vladimir Mashkov
          Vladimir Mashkov 16 December 2020 21: 10
          +3
          Foreign bases are an indicator of the power and interest of a leading state in a particular region. Russia, of course while cannot afford to put bases wherever needed. But here and there, where it is urgently needed, Begins put. Is it bad?
          1. IS-80_RVGK2
            IS-80_RVGK2 17 December 2020 01: 16
            +3
            There is such a fairly large region - Russia. Maybe it's time to start taking an interest in them? This money spent on all these indicators of power could be spent on medicine in which there is a complete tryndet, it can be spent on science, which should ensure the growth of labor productivity and in which it is also a tryndet. It would be possible to give the young families of an endangered Russia to die out at a slower pace. But yes, of course, it is better that we, in fact, a dying state with a huge number of internal problems, spend money on indicators of power. Of course, not everything is so simple. Many measures are forced. Here are just so many parasites while eating away resources from a sick organism, that if this continues, his death is just a matter of time. And hardly very long. The same Far East is literally slowly falling off with the exodus and extinction of its inhabitants and the growing economic power of China.
            1. Vladimir Mashkov
              Vladimir Mashkov 17 December 2020 15: 37
              -2
              On your questions, I see that you are a patriot guard-fsёpalschik.

              I will try to answer you, although I am not convinced that you would like to accept my arguments.

              Russia, of course, certainly needs to be developed in first queue. But completely close, conduct isolationist policies it is impossible, nothing good will come of it. It is necessary to communicate with the outside world. And not just to communicate, but to show and prove that Russia is strong (although you think that it is dying out, fading away, and falling apart on the eve of death) and an influential country. How to prove it? Set bases. As I said, wherever it should be, Russia has no resources. But in some places - it is necessary and Russia puts it.

              Are you not from / from Ukraine? Usually they believe that Russia is dying out, dying out, falling apart on the eve of death (Ukraine - no! lol).
              1. Sergey Nikiforov
                Sergey Nikiforov 19 December 2020 14: 27
                -2
                Almost half of the US defense budget goes to the maintenance of its military bases Do not be too lazy to find out how much the same Ramshtan costs to the US budget And how states oppose the withdrawal of bases The base in Sudan is, of course, serious until the next change of government Not the fact that it will be disposed to Russia
              2. IS-80_RVGK2
                IS-80_RVGK2 20 December 2020 19: 01
                0
                Rather, you are another guardian bot on the salary of the oligarchy and with a urapatriotic training manual worn to holes. Rhetoric in one constant references to Ukrainians, attempts to ascribe all sorts of nonsense and game to his opponent. Constant delight and the announcement of another peremogy from the fact that somewhere they built a shed for the production of some slabs from sawdust using Western technology on Western machines using Western components, despite the fact that entire industries have been ruined in the country. All this looks convincing only for very naive and narrow-minded people. You tell the curators there that it's time to change the manuals or the oligarchy will soon throw you out into the cold as insufficiently effective ones. However, there you go. For you have to be a rare bastard to scoff at the frankly difficult demographic situation, the fall in real incomes and the deterioration of the already not very high standard of living of the people.
          2. K298rtm
            K298rtm 17 December 2020 20: 44
            +2
            1. Bases are of course excellent.
            2. I would like to know the opinion of experts - And what, in fact, are the threats to us (RF) from the Indian Ocean? Who and what can threaten us from these warm latitudes?
            3. Can it be better to spend real limited resources (ship) on solving more pressing problems in the North and Far East?
            1. Vladimir Mashkov
              Vladimir Mashkov 17 December 2020 20: 48
              +1
              Not always can be seen from the trench. From mine too. smile
              1. K298rtm
                K298rtm 17 December 2020 20: 55
                +1
                1. I myself haven't sat in a trench for a long time.
                2. My trenches were in the Arctic and North Atlantic.
                3. I would like to know the opinion of those who are several floors above the trenches.
    2. Woodman
      Woodman 16 December 2020 16: 25
      -6
      Quote: Svarog
      . and now we protect the interests of the oligarchs

      Can you tell me which oligarchs' interests Russia defended in Crimea, Georgia, Syria?
      1. Svarog
        Svarog 16 December 2020 16: 37
        +12
        Quote: Lesovik
        Quote: Svarog
        . and now we protect the interests of the oligarchs

        Can you tell me which oligarchs' interests Russia defended in Crimea, Georgia, Syria?

        All those who are on the Forbes list and those who try not to get there.
        You will not argue with the fact that in our country 2% of "especially gifted citizens" own all the wealth of the country? Considering the fact that citizens are only getting poorer every year, and the number of billionaires is greater, it can be assumed at the expense of whom there are more billionaires.
        Further, you will not argue with the fact that Russia in peacetime suffers annually significant losses in population? But the state for some reason does not care about this topic .. Ask yourself a question, why is the state not interested that citizens are dying out, why does the state not care about what to create jobs, improve medicine and the overall social direction?
        Hence the conclusion that the state, represented by the oligarchs, protects purely its own interests, ignoring the interests of citizens.
        1. Woodman
          Woodman 17 December 2020 08: 10
          +1
          Quote: Svarog
          All those on the Forbes list

          If you try to put yourself in the shoes of the oligarchs, you can see that it is more profitable to gain control over the entire territory with a huge population, and not a small part of this territory with the same small proportion of the population. Compare Crimea and Ukraine. There was an opportunity (probably there was) to take all Ukraine under military and administrative control. This is for the oligarchs multi-billion dollar (in foreign currency) contracts for everything that can be imagined. From the supply of weapons to street name plates, from the arrangement of new borders and customs to the printing of millions of copies of traffic rules and state symbols, from the supply of many thousands of new medical equipment and the modernization of shipbuilding industries to the supply of tens of millions of textbooks for schools and universities. Yes, it's just Eldorado for "all those on the Forbes list." Do you agree?
          And more than forty million of not very loyal population ... And additional preferences that will go to the oligarchs to try to ensure the loyalty of this population. This is money for recovery after possible riots, sabotage and strikes. This is a recalculation of pensions, social benefits and other government obligations. And not in our favor.
          But in reality, only Crimea with a loyal population and a minimum of problems. Let's imagine that we have not returned Crimea. What would this lead to? To the construction of a new naval base for the Black Sea Fleet. And to the construction of additional infrastructure to stop new threats in the Black Sea. It is no longer as interesting for oligarchs as the territory of Ukraine, but much more interesting than some kind of Crimea. And there is no reason to be sanctioned.
          But in reality, only Crimea with a ready-made naval base.
          So Crimea is much more profitable for the population than for the oligarchs. In this historical segment.
          With Georgia too. The oligarchs have much more interests in Tbilisi and Batumi than in the beggars of South Ossetia and Abkhazia. But there were many local residents with Russian passports in these territories. And it was them that they tried to destroy. So again it turns out that, first of all, Russia acted in the interests of Russian citizens, and not the oligarchs ...
      2. aleksejkabanets
        aleksejkabanets 16 December 2020 16: 42
        +7
        Quote: Lesovik
        Can you tell me which oligarchs' interests Russia defended in Crimea, Georgia, Syria?

        Probably in Syria, everything is done exclusively for ordinary Syrians? Are the interests of Gazprom certainly not the main thing? Keep your mouth shut for Crimea and Georgia. First, the establishment of Russophobic regimes in these states was screwed up, but now it is necessary to hide behind Crimea?
        1. Woodman
          Woodman 17 December 2020 08: 18
          -5
          Quote: aleksejkabanets
          Probably in Syria, everything is done exclusively for ordinary Syrians? Are the interests of Gazprom certainly not the main thing?

          Are there foreigners working at Gazprom? The appearance of competitors will not affect them in any way, right? And the terrorists would probably only be limited to Syria? Would they not go to the North Caucasus?
          Quote: aleksejkabanets
          Keep your mouth shut for Crimea and Georgia. First, the establishment of Russophobic regimes in these states was screwed

          And when were there Russophile ones? Probably from the great love for Russia, they from the Union rushed at the speed of light, right? Or did these regimes come to power not under the Union? Weren't they born in the Union, grew up, studied and brought up? No? Have you fallen off Mars? So what about Russophobic regimes
          Quote: aleksejkabanets
          shut up better
      3. Krasnoyarsk
        Krasnoyarsk 16 December 2020 17: 07
        +14
        Quote: Lesovik
        Can you tell me which oligarchs' interests Russia defended in Crimea?

        And the interests of those who bought up all the wineries of the Crimea for a penny. Recently, the last plant was bought - Massandra.
      4. Machito
        Machito 16 December 2020 17: 40
        +7
        Quote: Lesovik
        Quote: Svarog
        . and now we protect the interests of the oligarchs

        Can you tell me which oligarchs' interests Russia defended in Crimea, Georgia, Syria?

        Did you build the Crimean Bridge Rotenberg for free? And, well, yes, for the star of the Hero of the Russian Federation.
        1. Woodman
          Woodman 17 December 2020 08: 23
          -1
          Quote: Bearded
          Did you build the Crimean Bridge Rotenberg for free?

          Oh, so everything was started for the sake of the bridge? Finally we have learned to calculate the situation for years to come. Thank you for making me happy. I thought we were playing number two in the situation with Ukraine, missed the initiative and then only reacted. To the Crimea. But it turns out that Russia just wanted to give Rotenberg the opportunity to build a bridge ... How twisted everything is!
      5. Ulysses
        Ulysses 16 December 2020 22: 31
        +1
        Throw in cons, the standard answer of local honored lapasos.
        People live in their parallel world.
        Do not touch their settled world on the forum. lol
    3. Aaron Zawi
      Aaron Zawi 16 December 2020 16: 41
      +2
      Quote: Svarog

      Here you still need to understand the difference .. between the USSR and the Russian Federation .. Then the socialist state defended its people and the interests of the allies .. and now we protect the interests of the oligarchs at the expense of citizens, whose incomes (citizens) are constantly falling, and the population is rapidly declining.

      Have you ever been to Volgograd, Saratov and Astrakhan in the 80s?
      1. Svarog
        Svarog 16 December 2020 16: 42
        +6
        Quote: Aaron Zawi
        Quote: Svarog

        Here you still need to understand the difference .. between the USSR and the Russian Federation .. Then the socialist state defended its people and the interests of the allies .. and now we protect the interests of the oligarchs at the expense of citizens, whose incomes (citizens) are constantly falling, and the population is rapidly declining.

        Have you ever been to Volgograd, Saratov and Astrakhan in the 80s?

        No, why?
      2. aleksejkabanets
        aleksejkabanets 16 December 2020 16: 44
        +4
        Quote: Aron Zaavi
        Have you ever been to Volgograd, Saratov and Astrakhan in the 80s?

        Was in Volzhsky, what's wrong?
        1. parusnik
          parusnik 16 December 2020 17: 17
          +5
          There was a shortage of food and food, because the bases abroad contained and all of Africa and Asia were fed. If they did not feed, they did not keep the bases, today they would live like Christ's in the bosom and there would not be such a mess in our regions. Greetings. hi
          1. aleksejkabanets
            aleksejkabanets 16 December 2020 17: 36
            +5
            hi Hello namesake.
            Quote: parusnik
            There was a shortage of food and food, because the bases abroad contained and all of Africa and Asia were fed. If they did not feed, they did not keep the bases, today they would live like Christ's in the bosom and there would not be such a mess in our regions. Greetings.

            I knew that the "klyats komunyaki" were to blame for the troubles of our districts.
            1. parusnik
              parusnik 16 December 2020 17: 47
              +5
              And then how, and we will set the bases, things in our counties will improve for the better, especially in medicine. If you want a joke, today I went to take a fluorogram, a photograph of the chest as a keepsake 9x12, the "camera" turned out to be broken, they say call, we will fix it in a week. laughing
              1. aleksejkabanets
                aleksejkabanets 16 December 2020 17: 54
                +5
                Quote: parusnik
                If you want a joke, today I went to take a fluorogram, a photograph of the chest as a keepsake 9x12, the "camera" turned out to be broken, they say call, we will fix it in a week.

                I don't even know whether to laugh or cry. Ruined everything you can. When I'm sad, "Putin's troops", I look on YouTube. Fence thing, it raises the mood for half a day.
                1. parusnik
                  parusnik 16 December 2020 18: 01
                  +3
                  laughing Sorry, I still remember it from my youth ... from the mid-80s of the last century. More than once my chest touched it ... And here they write about military bases abroad ... smile
              2. Doctor
                Doctor 17 December 2020 11: 55
                +2
                But how can we, but we will set the bases, things in our counties will improve for the better, especially in medicine. If you want a joke, today I went to take a fluorogram, a photograph of the chest as a keepsake 9x12, the "camera" turned out to be broken, they say call, we will fix it in a week. laughing

                This is not a priority area. wink

                And it could be like this:

                A normal digital fluorograph costs 50 thousand dollars.



                There are about 20 polyclinics in Russia.



                In total, it takes $ 1 billion to deliver a new fluorograph to EVERY polyclinic.

                But this yard went to rebuild Syria. tongue
          2. apro
            apro 16 December 2020 18: 47
            +1
            Quote: parusnik
            There was a shortage of food and food, because the bases abroad contained and all of Africa and Asia were fed. If they did not feed, they did not keep the bases, today they would live like Christ's in the bosom and there would not be such a mess in our regions. Greetings. hi

            Don't keep anyone for now ... do you live like Christ in your bosom?
            1. parusnik
              parusnik 16 December 2020 18: 55
              +2
              Oleg, for you and the rest I will put a smile, denoting sarcasm ...
            2. aleksejkabanets
              aleksejkabanets 16 December 2020 18: 56
              +2
              Quote: apro
              Don't keep anyone for now ... do you live like Christ in your bosom?

              Duck there is sarcasm in the comments, Colleague.
        2. Aaron Zawi
          Aaron Zawi 16 December 2020 19: 50
          -2
          Quote: aleksejkabanets
          Quote: Aron Zaavi
          Have you ever been to Volgograd, Saratov and Astrakhan in the 80s?

          Was in Volzhsky, what's wrong?

          Then I must remember how they lived there.
          1. aleksejkabanets
            aleksejkabanets 16 December 2020 19: 55
            0
            Quote: Aron Zaavi
            Then I must remember how they lived there.

            How did they live there? As elsewhere, in the mid-80s. I would not say that there was a poor supply.
            1. Aaron Zawi
              Aaron Zawi 16 December 2020 20: 56
              +2
              Quote: aleksejkabanets
              Quote: Aron Zaavi
              Then I must remember how they lived there.

              How did they live there? As elsewhere, in the mid-80s. I would not say that there was a poor supply.

              Yeah. In comparison with Moscow, St. Petersburg or Ukraine and Belarus. Do you have any conscience to write that?
              1. aleksejkabanets
                aleksejkabanets 16 December 2020 21: 10
                +1
                Quote: Aron Zaavi
                Yeah. In comparison with Moscow, St. Petersburg or Ukraine and Belarus. Do you have any conscience to write that?

                But there is no need for conscience. I didn't get personal. Give me the same answer. I lived in Navoi, Armavir, visited Kursk, Voronezh, and many other places. There is something to compare with. They lived like "on average in the country", of course you cannot compare with Moscow, but they bought sausage in Volzhsky, one cannot say that there were empty shelves there. I was young then, I don't know about meat.
                1. Aaron Zawi
                  Aaron Zawi 16 December 2020 21: 26
                  0
                  Quote: aleksejkabanets
                  Quote: Aron Zaavi
                  Yeah. In comparison with Moscow, St. Petersburg or Ukraine and Belarus. Do you have any conscience to write that?

                  But there is no need for conscience. I didn't get personal. Give me the same answer. I lived in Navoi, Armavir, visited Kursk, Voronezh, and many other places. There is something to compare with. They lived like "on average in the country", of course you cannot compare with Moscow, but they bought sausage in Volzhsky, one cannot say that there were empty shelves there. I was young then, I don't know about meat.

                  Yeah bought. As soon as I remember coupons for everything from matches to detergents, I am so damn good.
                  1. aleksejkabanets
                    aleksejkabanets 16 December 2020 21: 44
                    +3
                    Quote: Aron Zaavi
                    Yeah bought. As soon as I remember coupons for everything from matches to detergents, I am so damn good.

                    I remember the same, my grandfather stood in line in the morning on Tuesdays for sausage, and on Thursdays for butter. We lived in Armavir then. Only this was somewhere after the 85th year, under Gorbachev already. After "dry law", this is something I already remember for sure))))) There was no caramel, the same sugar. My father made the moonshine still. And before that they did not make chacha, they only made grape wine. Who would have thought then that the USSR began to fall apart. The coupons were introduced exactly under Gorbachev, in the late 80s.
                    PS Hake and pollock I remember everything, 20 kopecks each. only cats took it then.
                  2. Vladimir247
                    Vladimir247 17 December 2020 02: 41
                    +4
                    Aron.
                    --------
                    Coupons for everything ...
                    ----
                    This is not the mid-80s, which is what we are actually talking about. This is much later, this is the end, the 80s, the beginning of the 90s, the period of the collapse of the Union. And in the mid-80s, there were food coupons. But .... and what are we talking and crying about? For a family of 4 people, it was enough, well, about 20 days. The rest was completely bought in co-sales and at the bazaar.
                    Even in those days of coupons, they ate hearty and tasty. But in the gangster-Yeltsin times, I remember well that my wife and I tried to take meat from the soup and not take it .... so that the children would eat it. The "crisis" of non-payments, arranged by Yegorka, hit everyone.
                    So, coupon times, they are like the promised ... laughing
                    1. aleksejkabanets
                      aleksejkabanets 17 December 2020 08: 29
                      +2
                      Quote: Vladimir247
                      But in the gangster-Yeltsin times, I remember well that my wife and I tried to take meat from the soup and not take it .... so that the children would eat it. The "crisis" of non-payments, arranged by Yegorka, hit everyone.

                      You will be surprised, probably, I fled from the village to the city not so long ago. So 20 percent, they still live like that. In the village, I mean, at least in our Kuban, and what in the non-black earth region I don't know.
                  3. apro
                    apro 17 December 2020 07: 53
                    -2
                    Quote: Aron Zaavi
                    so fuckin '

                    That the Jews did not report meat ???
              2. Svarog
                Svarog 16 December 2020 21: 33
                0
                Quote: Aron Zaavi
                Yeah. In comparison with Moscow, St. Petersburg or Ukraine and Belarus. Do you have any conscience to write that?

                Aron, but there were problems with distortions in the distribution .. no one argues. But minor local problems cannot be an argument for my comment.
                1. Aaron Zawi
                  Aaron Zawi 16 December 2020 21: 36
                  0
                  Quote: Svarog
                  Quote: Aron Zaavi
                  Yeah. In comparison with Moscow, St. Petersburg or Ukraine and Belarus. Do you have any conscience to write that?

                  Aron, but there were problems with distortions in the distribution .. no one argues. But minor local problems cannot be an argument for my comment.

                  Well, everyone looks at it differently.
                  1. Svarog
                    Svarog 16 December 2020 21: 38
                    +4
                    Quote: Aron Zaavi
                    Well, everyone looks at it differently.

                    Do you seriously think that the Russian Federation is a more progressive state than the USSR?
                    1. frog
                      frog 17 December 2020 09: 35
                      +4
                      Sorry, but ..... If someone talks about the problems of the Union, this does not mean that he is delighted with the current one. Just a little fed up with constant appeals to the "earthly paradise" until 1992 .... As well as the fact that the warriors with their iron are accused of all the troubles thereof. They, of course, also hurried in advance with a "feasible mite", but the problem is not in them ...
                      1. Vladimir247
                        Vladimir247 18 December 2020 04: 05
                        +1
                        ... appeals to "earthly paradise" before 1992 ...
                        -----------
                        Why in quotation marks? Everything is relative. Let's not talk about sausage any more, it's just some idiocy, to discuss the sausage now. When much more formidable things stand before our eyes.
                        It turns out, according to the estimates of Moscow physicians, there are from 3 to 8 million drug users in the country. Only about 250 thousand registered. These are really scary numbers. How many children are among them ... no one knows
                        And we are being led away in the direction of discussing sausages ... we ourselves will soon be given away for sausages.
                        So paradise or in quotation marks "paradise" was in the USSR, compared with the current bacchanalia?
                        Indeed, in the USSR, drug addiction as a phenomenon did not exist in principle.
                      2. frog
                        frog 19 December 2020 15: 48
                        -2
                        And in quotes - because in quotes. The Union had its pluses and minuses, like any creature under these stars .... And to engage in offering prayers to the deceased is stupid to lie.
                        As for the sausage, these are your difficulties, I have not mentioned this product, alas ...
                        And yet, yes, there is one more nuance, very small. I still lived in the union and train on it decently. Therefore, I do not need to tell tales about this "paradise", built "completely and finally" for the "new historical community" ... In which, SUDDENLY, there was no drug addiction .... Alcoholism with other vices, apparently, too.
                        And so, just in case, I’ve already come across a duality of thinking - if I’m talking badly about a scoop, it doesn’t mean that I’m talking well about the current tight-knit times ...
                      3. Vladimir247
                        Vladimir247 19 December 2020 23: 02
                        0
                        If I'm talking bad about a scoop, it doesn't mean at all ...
                        ----------------
                        What does this mean then? Is it all gone, solid darkness behind and in front?
                        And it shouldn't be so ... offensive about the Motherland - a scoop. And then you have to remember, in such a time, who does not like the scoop. And he does not like the dirt. laughing
                      4. frog
                        frog 20 December 2020 14: 15
                        0
                        This means for all normal people that each entity has at least two sides, no more. That everything has its own pro and contra. Only. True, individual characters do not understand this, and the flag under which they broadcast the role does not matter, nor does it matter. No more.
                        As for the fact that someone wants to remember something, this is unlikely. Pouring shit on any dissenting person is beyond recall, this is chi Shvonder chi Polygraph Poligrafich, that's all ...
  • evgen1221
    evgen1221 16 December 2020 19: 13
    +3
    And that at that time there was unemployment in these cities and wages at a couple of factories were paid below the subsistence level?
  • IS-80_RVGK2
    IS-80_RVGK2 17 December 2020 00: 56
    -1
    And what do they write about the bloody scoop in the Mossad manuals?
  • Doccor18
    Doccor18 16 December 2020 16: 46
    0
    Quote: Svarog
    It is clear that today Russia a priori does not have the military and financial resources that the USSR had, and therefore it is unrealistic (and hardly advisable) to "scatter" bases (or the same MTO points) around the world.

    Here you still need to understand the difference .. between the USSR and the Russian Federation .. Then the socialist state defended its people and the interests of the allies .. and now we protect the interests of the oligarchs at the expense of citizens, whose incomes (citizens) are constantly falling, and the population is rapidly declining.

    Emperors, general secretaries and presidents come and go, and oligarchs do not last forever. And the Motherland, Russia was, is and will always be. And if the base of the Russian fleet appears in Cuba, Nicaragua or Venezuela, then I will be all for it. The flight time before the Democrats is less. Let them know ...
    Only without fanaticism, of course, and under strict control ...
    1. Svarog
      Svarog 16 December 2020 16: 52
      +8
      Quote: Doccor18
      Emperors, general secretaries and presidents come and go, and oligarchs don't last forever

      Together with them, the bases leave ..
      And the Motherland, Russia was, is and will always be

      I'm not sure .. for me, the Motherland is primarily the citizens of my country. The second is the territory.
      Taking into account the demographic dynamics and the focus of officials on the settlement of migrant workers in Russia, Russia in 50 years will be completely different .. and the Russians will already be a minority .. You probably also will not like the Motherland, where the husband of your granddaughter / great-granddaughter will be African, Chinese, or some other nation , which is now not associated with Russia? But capital on the drum ... the main thing is profit ..
      1. Doccor18
        Doccor18 16 December 2020 17: 47
        +3
        Together with them, the bases leave ..

        Unfortunately.
        I'm not sure .. for me, the Motherland is primarily the citizens of my country. The second is the territory.

        And for me too.
        As long as my children, relatives, friends live in this territory ... Yes, the indigenous population is decreasing, but it has not yet disappeared. So we will kick to the last ...
        You probably won't like the Motherland either, where the husband of your granddaughter / great-granddaughter will be African, Chinese, or some other nation ...

        Do not like it, you are right.
        Although two friends had daughters married to a Chinese and a Korean. They live normally ...
    2. aleksejkabanets
      aleksejkabanets 16 December 2020 17: 02
      +3
      Quote: Doccor18
      And if the base of the Russian fleet appears in Cuba, Nicaragua or Venezuela, then I will be all for it. The flight time before the Democrats is less. Let them know ...

      Who can argue with that. It is beneficial for Russia, but in whose hands is it all, and where is the guarantee that all this will be used for the good of the people, and not in the interests of a bunch of snickering cattle?
      1. aybolyt678
        aybolyt678 16 December 2020 17: 06
        -1
        Quote: aleksejkabanets
        that all this will be used for the good of the people, and not in the interests of a bunch of snickering cattle?

        on the external field, these two groups have interests in contact
        1. aleksejkabanets
          aleksejkabanets 16 December 2020 17: 11
          +5
          Quote: aybolyt678
          on the external field, these two groups have interests in contact

          RI had the same contact, until 1904, and then 1914. That's what I mean. You know why the Russo-Japanese War began.
        2. Aag
          Aag 21 December 2020 17: 45
          0
          Quote: aybolyt678
          Quote: aleksejkabanets
          that all this will be used for the good of the people, and not in the interests of a bunch of snickering cattle?

          on the external field, these two groups have interests in contact

          I put a plus, purely because I would like to believe it ...
          Hypothetically, if the oligarchy would treat Russia not as a cow that is either milked or for meat (horns and hooves, or already skin and bones are left), but as a nurse Burenka, a plowman Sivka (excuse me, based on the relations to the people), then it could be as you wrote, as you and I would like.
          But what is observed suggests that for them the people are a resource. In the worst manifestation, it is just a commodity ... Why feed a horse, if he is already barely plowing the overgrown Delyana? There are stray, more unpretentious Central Asian breeds grazing nearby! ...
          The hour is not even, they will begin, finally, to sculpt war elephants out of us! ...
          I apologize for the figurativeness of the speech. hi
          1. aybolyt678
            aybolyt678 21 December 2020 19: 42
            0
            Quote: AAG
            I put a plus, purely because I would like to believe it ..

            you understand, our elite, which has surfaced, it understands that without an army and nuclear weapons, it will fly in to lose its property, bowels, etc. That is why our (theirs?) army is now almost flourishing.
            1. Aag
              Aag 21 December 2020 19: 59
              -1
              Quote: aybolyt678
              Quote: AAG
              I put a plus, purely because I would like to believe it ..

              you understand, our elite, which has surfaced, it understands that without an army and nuclear weapons, it will fly in to lose its property, bowels, etc. That is why our (theirs?) army is now almost flourishing.

              You didn't notice, in part, this has already happened.
              They need "Army and nuclear weapons" to justify their existence as irreplaceable intermediaries.
              Such thoughts are very disgusting to myself, but, excuse me, I can not find other explanations.
              "... the army is almost flourishing now ..."
              Is there any confirmation?
              1. aybolyt678
                aybolyt678 21 December 2020 21: 52
                0
                Quote: AAG
                Is there any confirmation?

                I live in the regional center, on the border with Kazakhstan. We have a town built just 8 years ago. All border guards are provided with housing, drive more or less decent cars, and are dressed with shoes. So in general all over Russia. I remember the 90s.
                1. Aag
                  Aag 22 December 2020 15: 46
                  -1
                  Dear aybolyt! 678! Agree, this is not an argument: in the 90s, the re-export "Shokha" (VAZ-2106) was counted as a decent car.))) In our regiment in those years, the officers had four cars (three "Moskvich"), and eight Ural motorcycles ...
                  Not an indicator of the professional suitability of the aircraft!
                  The motivation is different! The level of training is different, not comforting ... I don’t hate everyone, I apologize in advance to those military men who honestly, faithfully, in spite of everything ... But, sorry, I have experience of serving in the USSR Armed Forces , and RF.
                  Perhaps somewhere, something got better ...
                  But, in the military town where I served, I have lived for over 30 years, where the children of my colleagues become pensioners ... even according to the parents' confession, there will not be enough specialists, and ideological ones ... hi
                  1. aybolyt678
                    aybolyt678 22 December 2020 17: 08
                    +1
                    Quote: AAG
                    .even as parents admit, there will be not enough specialists, and ideological ...

                    there are really few specialists, ideological where to come from? However, upon retirement, people receive a civilian profession, they are paid for any education. No problem, my friend replaced his hip joints, ruined them in Chechnya ... The attitude towards the military is different than towards the citizens of the country. The care is felt. Periodically go on business trips and to study.
                    Their personal cars are foreign cars. mostly jeeps. 10 years and younger. Service UAZs are mostly patriots .. I'm not a military man, but there is only one answer to the question of the strength of the border - under lock and key!
                    1. Aag
                      Aag 22 December 2020 18: 50
                      0
                      Quote: aybolyt678
                      Quote: AAG
                      .even as parents admit, there will be not enough specialists, and ideological ...

                      there are really few specialists, ideological where to come from? However, upon retirement, people receive a civilian profession, they are paid for any education. No problem, my friend replaced his hip joints, ruined them in Chechnya ... The attitude towards the military is different than towards the citizens of the country. The care is felt. Periodically go on business trips and to study.
                      Their personal cars are foreign cars. mostly jeeps. 10 years and younger. Service UAZs are mostly patriots .. I'm not a military man, but there is only one answer to the question of the strength of the border - under lock and key!

                      I have no task to convince you, to dissuade you. I laid out my disturbing beliefs. I agree that the supply of military equipment has increased significantly (compare with the 90s), in contrast to the return! Once again, apologies to those who do not pull the strap for the sake of their belly, - they, as a rule, are not visible (at outposts, in remote garrisons, on the base, on campaigns, and on business trips), excuse me, please, you are not confusing anything? , the task of any military unit is to carry out the assigned task, the order given, exactly and on time, in any conditions of the situation. (And not fattening up). That is the task of the command (leadership) to provide him with everything necessary for this. (training, weapons, social security, etc.) Including, after the end of the service ...
                      I am tortured to list how many obligations have been lost in relation to pensioners of the Moscow Region. Against the background of the pension reform, it is useless to remember for the vast majority of Russians (maybe this is the calculation?).
                      On the hip ... Of the four in need of replacement, from among close colleagues (including himself), only one comrade changed for free, and not through the Ministry of Defense. Another, in the hospital of the Ministry of Defense, on communications, for a lot of money ...
                      ... UAZ Patriot is not a patriot at all, and certainly not an army car! (I assure you as a person who went fishing, hunting, served the entire service "on wheels", worked for several years in a car service). One electric gas pedal (from a mediocre It’s easy to break with a felt boot, high fur boots, ankle boot in the cold. Start the engine after that, even with a spare unit, is extremely unlikely ... hi
    3. zenion
      zenion 16 December 2020 18: 41
      0
      The country will of course be, but you will remain in the country, like slaves in Ancient Rome. Previously, it was the Motherland Mother, for the whole people, now it is a stepdaughter. It is the name that rulers take when they want blood and meat.
    4. ccsr
      ccsr 16 December 2020 18: 48
      +2
      Quote: Doccor18
      And if the base of the Russian fleet appears in Cuba, Nicaragua or Venezuela, then I will be all for it.

      Nafig are they needed there, if you mean naval bases for ships of the Navy? The time has passed when we believed that our fleet should be present in all oceans - our opportunities are not the same, and the people are not so prosperous enough to spend money on the ambitions of the naval commanders. In fact, only the electronic intelligence center in Lourdes is important for us, so it must first of all be restored, because it will be more useful than from all the naval bases in that region. Naval reconnaissance can also be pushed in there to keep an eye out - that is what we should be guided by. And all the rest of the whim about the Cam Ranh and other objects for the Navy is not worth it to be seriously discussed - there will not be enough money for all this, as well as ships for several thousand people to serve them there.
      1. Doccor18
        Doccor18 16 December 2020 19: 27
        +2
        The time has passed when we believed that our fleet should be present in all oceans ..

        Well, yes, it is high time to decide what Russia is in the modern world. Either it is reborn and becomes one of the superpowers, or it is slowly and surely following the path of Libya or Iraq. If the second option, then of course the "nafig" bases are not needed. If the first - then we just need an oceanic fleet and bases ...
        ..to spend money on the ambitions of the naval commanders. 

        Better to spend them on bankers' ambitions. Rebranding Sberbank ...
        And all the rest of the whim about Cam Ranh and other objects for the Navy is not worth it to be seriously discussed - there will not be enough money for all this ..

        When they spend and spend on something else ... When billions of dollars are allocated to the Olympics and World Championships, and then they don’t know what to do with these stadiums, because Russia is not Germany, we do not have 60 thousand spectators for every football match .. ...
      2. Aag
        Aag 21 December 2020 18: 07
        0
        Quote: ccsr
        Quote: Doccor18
        And if the base of the Russian fleet appears in Cuba, Nicaragua or Venezuela, then I will be all for it.

        Nafig are they needed there, if you mean naval bases for ships of the Navy? The time has passed when we believed that our fleet should be present in all oceans - our opportunities are not the same, and the people are not so prosperous enough to spend money on the ambitions of the naval commanders. In fact, only the electronic intelligence center in Lourdes is important for us, so it must first of all be restored, because it will be more useful than from all the naval bases in that region. Naval reconnaissance can also be pushed in there to keep an eye out - that is what we should be guided by. And all the rest of the whim about the Cam Ranh and other objects for the Navy is not worth it to be seriously discussed - there will not be enough money for all this, as well as ships for several thousand people to serve them there.

        I have no objections to the above. I have a question on: "... and the people do not live so well ..." ...
        Bad phrasing or sarcasm.
        The main thing, IMHO, the people live, for the most part, without persuasion! Or they do not associate their personal perspective with the development of the Russian Federation.
        1. ccsr
          ccsr 21 December 2020 18: 51
          +1
          Quote: AAG
          Bad phrasing or sarcasm.

          Understand how you want. I just didn’t want us to repeat the mistakes of the USSR, when we considered it necessary to oppose something for every American sneeze. And the people did not live too richly then, and even now it is very difficult for many to survive. That is why I am only for a reasonable need, and we better shove ambitions away. I think that all sane military professionals will understand me. Especially those who know what the development and production of any weapon costs.
          1. Aag
            Aag 21 December 2020 19: 48
            0
            Quote: ccsr
            Quote: AAG
            Bad phrasing or sarcasm.

            Understand how you want. I just didn’t want us to repeat the mistakes of the USSR, when we considered it necessary to oppose something for every American sneeze. And the people did not live too richly then, and even now it is very difficult for many to survive. That is why I am only for a reasonable need, and we better shove ambitions away. I think that all sane military professionals will understand me. Especially those who know what the development and production of any weapon costs.

            Understood, I share your opinion ...
            All I wanted to clarify: "And the people did not live too richly then, and even now it is very difficult for many to survive." ...
  • bandabas
    bandabas 16 December 2020 21: 30
    0
    Tomorrow at 12.00 the "guarantor" will announce everything about the "crown", sugar and "Caliber". For the first time, on principle, I will watch this show live. Beer and chips are already waiting in the wings.
    1. Doccor18
      Doccor18 16 December 2020 23: 14
      +3
      Beer and chips are already waiting in the wings.

      Better vodka and meat laughing
      It's hard to look without a strong sad
  • DrEng527
    DrEng527 17 December 2020 14: 28
    -1
    Quote: Svarog
    now we protect the interests of the oligarchs at the expense of citizens, whose incomes (citizens) are constantly falling, and the population is rapidly declining.

    You didn't write about Ukraine for nothing? wink
  • Victor Tsenin
    Victor Tsenin 16 December 2020 16: 27
    0
    > It is clear that today Russia a priori does not have the military and financial resources that the USSR had
    On the contrary, you can make money on this, recruit local aborigines, so that they do not piracy and not limitlessness, but use them as trained mercenaries. As a recruiting center and profitable business, every base can be considered, here's what I mean.
    1. aleksejkabanets
      aleksejkabanets 16 December 2020 16: 31
      +1
      Quote: Victor Tsenin
      > It is clear that today Russia a priori does not have the military and financial resources that the USSR had
      On the contrary, you can make money on this, recruit local aborigines, so that they do not piracy and not limitlessness, but use them as trained mercenaries. As a recruiting center and profitable business, every base can be considered, here's what I mean.

      We must take an example from the United States, you mean?
      1. Victor Tsenin
        Victor Tsenin 16 December 2020 16: 33
        +6
        You always need to learn the best, no matter where the example comes from.
        1. aleksejkabanets
          aleksejkabanets 16 December 2020 16: 36
          0
          Quote: Victor Tsenin
          You always need to learn the best, no matter where the example comes from.

          What's the best? Liberal Fascism for Export? Do you want to learn anything from Hitler and Mussolini?
          1. Victor Tsenin
            Victor Tsenin 16 December 2020 16: 43
            +6
            I don’t know how you correlate the protection of national interests with profit, besides, liberal fascism, I don’t like liberals or fans of fascists and Nazis, if you’re talking about that.
            Why are you exaggerating, then I suggest the devil, weave Pinochet and the Khmer Rouge?) The best is, say, some moments from the same Iran, a profitable business idea, right in the next branch
            https://topwar.ru/178174-peredovye-plavuchie-bazy-dlja-vms-ksir.html
            1. aleksejkabanets
              aleksejkabanets 16 December 2020 16: 46
              -3
              Quote: Victor Tsenin
              Why are you exaggerating ...

              It is not necessary to conduct an imperial policy simply, it does not lead to good. And the United States will not get it right.
              1. Victor Tsenin
                Victor Tsenin 16 December 2020 16: 49
                +3
                I absolutely agree, but agree that having a profit by promoting your interests, as well as suppressing dishonest people and organizations, is more constructive and promising than the absence of one of the terms above
                1. aleksejkabanets
                  aleksejkabanets 16 December 2020 16: 55
                  -1
                  Quote: Victor Tsenin
                  I absolutely agree, but agree that to have a profit by promoting your interests,

                  Profit is secondary, strategic interests are much more important. They are the ones that need to be promoted, even if it bears temporary losses.
                  1. Victor Tsenin
                    Victor Tsenin 16 December 2020 16: 59
                    +4
                    Of course it is secondary, but it is better to have it, and not purposefully not to use the option, which is nonsense.
                    1. Vladimir247
                      Vladimir247 19 December 2020 23: 12
                      0
                      Better to have it
                      ---------
                      And why is it better? The main thing here is WHOM is better? Is it really better for me that Deripaska will have more profit? Or is the country better? Somehow ... over 30 years imperceptibly ... from the word completely ... laughing laughing laughing
                      1. Victor Tsenin
                        Victor Tsenin 20 December 2020 02: 34
                        +1
                        Better budget) We won't talk about 30 years, one frustration
                      2. Vladimir247
                        Vladimir247 20 December 2020 02: 46
                        0
                        Yes, the budget has a full name. You check. Who is there to the left of the saw, who is to the right ... laughing
            2. Aag
              Aag 21 December 2020 18: 13
              0
              Quote: aleksejkabanets
              Quote: Victor Tsenin
              Why are you exaggerating ...

              It is not necessary to conduct an imperial policy simply, it does not lead to good. And the United States will not get it right.

              The imperial policy of the Republic of Ingushetia and the US imperialism are several different things. Don't you think?
        2. aybolyt678
          aybolyt678 16 December 2020 17: 17
          0
          Quote: aleksejkabanets
          Do you want to learn anything from Hitler and Mussolini?

          Hitler brilliantly united the nation. I found an ideology that reconciled the upper and lower classes ... The fact that social nationalism was cannibalistic for the Untermensch does not mean that it was bad for the Germans. If you remember the economic situation in Germany in the 20s of the last century and what it came to for 15 years !!! ....... by the way, this nation reacted normally after the war to the call of Adenauer - "it is unfair when a beer merchant gets more skilled workers" ... With this approach, they paid reparations to England until 1978 for the First World War, For the second, too long .. and economically stronger than us!
          1. aleksejkabanets
            aleksejkabanets 16 December 2020 17: 26
            +1
            Quote: aybolyt678
            Hitler brilliantly united the nation ...

            Read how this "brilliant union" ended for the Germans themselves.
            1. aybolyt678
              aybolyt678 16 December 2020 17: 32
              -1
              Quote: aleksejkabanets
              Read how this "brilliant association" ended for the Germans themselves

              I'm not talking about that, I'm talking about the idea that united people ... National Socialism is a castrated socialism limited by the nation. He is not an example for humanity. But socialism is actually a more progressive system. Economically more profitable and free from the diseases of Capitalism. Moreover, in the digital world, it is easier to conduct accounting and planning
              1. aleksejkabanets
                aleksejkabanets 16 December 2020 17: 38
                +1
                Quote: aybolyt678
                I'm not talking about that, I'm talking about the idea that united people ...

                They have different ideas, there are such ideas that God forbid.
              2. Aag
                Aag 21 December 2020 18: 34
                0
                Quote: aybolyt678
                Quote: aleksejkabanets
                Read how this "brilliant association" ended for the Germans themselves

                I'm not talking about that, I'm talking about the idea that united people ... National Socialism is a castrated socialism limited by the nation. He is not an example for humanity. But socialism is actually a more progressive system. Economically more profitable and free from the diseases of Capitalism. Moreover, in the digital world, it is easier to conduct accounting and planning

                "... But socialism is actually a more progressive system. Economically more profitable and devoid of the diseases of Capitalism ..."
                Well, "in fact" is not an argument.)) Although I have the same opinion (about the superiority of socialism over capitalism, people will come back to this. Of course, at a different level. For, socialism had its "sores" enough. (((It would seem, not as dangerous as under capitalism. However, the socialist states ... And capitalism flourishes. It is globalized ... hi
                1. aybolyt678
                  aybolyt678 21 December 2020 19: 59
                  +1
                  Quote: AAG
                  However, the socialist states ... And capitalism flourishes. It is globalized ...

                  dial the socialism of Karl Ballaud. by the way non-revolutionary way.
                  Socialism - from the point of view of biology, it is an advanced herd instinct. This is a way of co-survival. In our robotic, computerized time, such sores of socialism as the lack of employee interest are no longer relevant, and planning and accounting, on the contrary, are greatly simplified. The sores of Capitalism are much worse. The cycle of development of Capital: accumulation, development, monopolization, war ... and so on for 3 thousand years. With scientifically advanced Socialism, there can be no failed companies and no overproduction crises. The history of the collapse of the USSR is an example of the introduction of people with a consumption ideology, as well as agents of influence of the West, into the upper circles, which is basically the same thing. Therefore, the question of turning to socialism is a question of political will which will be supported by the masses and not by "friends". This is a matter of upper control by the electorate, it is the ability to withdraw votes, and there should be three main leaders after China's model. Yours faithfully smile
                  1. Aag
                    Aag 21 December 2020 20: 15
                    +1
                    Quote: aybolyt678
                    Quote: AAG
                    However, the socialist states ... And capitalism flourishes. It is globalized ...

                    dial the socialism of Karl Ballaud. by the way non-revolutionary way.
                    Socialism - from the point of view of biology, it is an advanced herd instinct. This is a way of co-survival. In our robotic, computerized time, such sores of socialism as the lack of employee interest are no longer relevant, and planning and accounting, on the contrary, are greatly simplified. The sores of Capitalism are much worse. The cycle of development of Capital: accumulation, development, monopolization, war ... and so on for 3 thousand years. With scientifically advanced Socialism, there can be no failed companies and no overproduction crises. The history of the collapse of the USSR is an example of the introduction of people with a consumption ideology, as well as agents of influence of the West, into the upper circles, which is basically the same thing. Therefore, the question of turning to socialism is a question of political will which will be supported by the masses and not by "friends". This is a matter of upper control by the electorate, it is the ability to withdraw votes, and there should be three main leaders after China's model. Yours faithfully smile

                    "dial the socialism of Karl Ballod .."
                    He is Karlis Balodis, -if in Latvian. I myself sometimes refer to him ... hi
                    ".... In our robotic, computerized time, such sores of socialism as the lack of employee interest are no longer relevant ..."
                    Several thousand years, and in the entire foreseeable future, is still as relevant!
                    Well, about capitalism, in 3 thousand years, you, apparently, ... made a reservation.
                    "... the question of turning to socialism is a question of political will which will be supported by the masses and not by" friends "..."
                    By the masses, in part, perhaps yes ... Only a number of conditions are applied to this, in particular, the categorical disagreement of those with power, capital, to share all this. K. Balod will not convince them ...
                    1. aybolyt678
                      aybolyt678 21 December 2020 21: 44
                      +1
                      Quote: AAG
                      Only a number of conditions are applied to this, in particular, the categorical disagreement of those with power, capital, to share all this. K. Balod will not convince them.

                      power by capital ..... Capital is value that creates new value, means of production, infrastructure, labor (which is no longer a force smile ) Who is the owner of the capital? factories, factories, technologies? there are very few of them, mainly we have wells and pipes. there are media owners .... But I do not call for all this to be selected, divided. Only the Central Bank has real power. it is thanks to his policy that production is unprofitable in our country. The state must take control over the exchange rate in order to provide favorable conditions for producers and science. I see socialism only as the availability of free education, medicine, guaranteed social housing, and the possibility of social lifts for talents. If there is production, all this will be. Therefore, the question is not in the consent of the rich to share, but in the state control over the Central Bank. The ruble should be tied to a kilowatt, we have a kilowatt provided with infrastructure. This is the only way the ruble can become an international standard. On the stock exchanges, not the ruble, but the Russian kilowatt hour will play against the dollar ... The more in the product of our production, the more stable the price for it. Looking at manufacturing as just energy is wrong. The lion's share there is intelligence science. Therefore, it is not necessary to buy ready-made technologies, but scientists. Something like this. Thanks for reading.
            2. Aag
              Aag 21 December 2020 18: 16
              +1
              Quote: aleksejkabanets
              Quote: aybolyt678
              Hitler brilliantly united the nation ...

              Read how this "brilliant union" ended for the Germans themselves.

              In this particular case, the person is not writing about this ...
          2. The comment was deleted.
          3. Doccor18
            Doccor18 16 December 2020 23: 24
            +3
            Hitler brilliantly united the nation.

            And then also "brilliantly" it almost destroyed.
            ... and economically stronger than us!

            This is not the merit of Hitler, but 80 million pedantic and hardworking Germans.
            1. aybolyt678
              aybolyt678 21 December 2020 21: 48
              +1
              Quote: Doccor18
              This is not the merit of Hitler, but 80 million pedantic and hardworking Germans.

              And also American corporations that invested in German military factories in the 30s. Does it surprise you that the "Great Depression" is due to explosive growth in production in Germany?
              1. Doccor18
                Doccor18 22 December 2020 08: 51
                +1
                Quote: aybolyt678
                Quote: Doccor18
                This is not the merit of Hitler, but 80 million pedantic and hardworking Germans.

                And also American corporations that invested in German military factories in the 30s. Does it surprise you that the "Great Depression" is due to explosive growth in production in Germany?

                Absolutely true, without overseas corporations and banks there would be no rapid development, no subsequent blitzkrieg ...
      2. zenion
        zenion 16 December 2020 18: 42
        -2
        This is correct, but it is better to start with flying saucers and another set. Imagine what will happen to the enemy when he sees the flying forks! There is no escape, neither in trenches, nor in tanks, nor in flying, that is, lethal vehicles.
  • Krasnoyarsk
    Krasnoyarsk 16 December 2020 17: 43
    +7
    Quote: Victor Tsenin
    > It is clear that today Russia a priori does not have the military and financial resources that the USSR had

    And why? Russia exports more energy resources over the hill than the USSR, and there is no need to "divide the income" into 15 republics. "Where is the money, Zin"? (Vysotsky)
    1. Fan-fan
      Fan-fan 16 December 2020 18: 12
      +4
      And why not?
      Because the country is run by mediocrity, who cares only for personal well-being.
      1. zenion
        zenion 16 December 2020 18: 44
        +1
        And they want to do it for a long time and with your skin.
      2. Aag
        Aag 21 December 2020 18: 58
        0
        Quote: Fan-Fan
        And why not?
        Because the country is run by mediocrity, who cares only for personal well-being.

        Apparently, they are not so mediocre, since they do it so cleverly ...
        I remember, in my youth, I was bubbling inside when I read about Menshikov under Peter ... Like a thief in a little space. But I don’t remember (if I’m not right, correct it) _that he "leaked" the interests of the empire to adversaries.
        Although, what to judge, if we do not really know what is happening now ... And it was the propagandists who were in power to interpret these or those historical facts.
  • vvnab
    vvnab 16 December 2020 16: 29
    +11
    it's time to regain lost ground

    Maybe you should start with education and economics?
    1. Victor Tsenin
      Victor Tsenin 16 December 2020 16: 34
      +4
      It seems that our funds have enough funds for almost everything, simultaneously with a profit.
      1. aleksejkabanets
        aleksejkabanets 16 December 2020 16: 47
        -1
        Quote: Victor Tsenin
        It seems that our funds have enough funds for almost everything, simultaneously with a profit.

        What kind of funds do you have?
        1. Victor Tsenin
          Victor Tsenin 16 December 2020 16: 51
          +3
          Here, you are from the Russian Federation, I suppose? You google, all funds are not secret and their volume is known.
          1. aleksejkabanets
            aleksejkabanets 16 December 2020 16: 57
            +3
            Quote: Victor Tsenin
            Here, you are from the Russian Federation, I suppose? You google, all funds are not secret and their volume is known.

            If you are talking about "sovereign wealth funds", then they are collected for other occasions.
            1. Victor Tsenin
              Victor Tsenin 16 December 2020 17: 01
              +2
              I mean the National Welfare Fund and other funds, there are several of them, you already know. But cases have recently become more frequent.
    2. aleksejkabanets
      aleksejkabanets 16 December 2020 16: 38
      +3
      Quote: vvnab
      Maybe you should start with education and economics?

      Everything is correct. They begin to build a house with a foundation pit, and we first start assembling the roof.
      1. iouris
        iouris 16 December 2020 16: 53
        +1
        They just dug a deep hole.
        1. aleksejkabanets
          aleksejkabanets 16 December 2020 17: 05
          +4
          Quote: iouris
          They just dug a deep hole.

          Well, yes, with the current system it is impossible to get out of it.
      2. aybolyt678
        aybolyt678 16 December 2020 17: 19
        +4
        Quote: aleksejkabanets
        They begin to build a house with a foundation pit, and we first start assembling the roof.

        The most efficient construction starts with a project. For a good project with a link, do not mind 10% of the cost of the house !!!
    3. aybolyt678
      aybolyt678 16 December 2020 17: 34
      +6
      Quote: vvnab
      Maybe you should start with education and economics?

      exactly! precisely from education! from all its stages .. at the same time, discuss that education for citizens of the Russian Federation is free, but if a citizen of the Russian Federation leaves, then you will have to pay for the received education and medical assistance!
      1. Vladimir247
        Vladimir247 19 December 2020 23: 20
        -1
        Exactly ! It is from education!
        ----------
        Yeah ... that's where everyone starts ... for 30 years ... laughing ... or what, someone said otherwise?
        You need to start with the responsibility of the one who destroyed it. Or, at least, with the introduction of a mechanism of inevitable responsibility.
        Otherwise, in another 30 years, talking about "education" will no longer be relevant ... laughing
        1. aybolyt678
          aybolyt678 20 December 2020 04: 51
          0
          Quote: Vladimir247
          You need to start with the responsibility of the one who destroyed it. Or, at least, with the introduction of a mechanism of inevitable responsibility.

          Does responsibility mean a mechanism of punishment for misconduct before the system? Question: - the purpose of the system's existence? for example capitalist? If making a profit, then no one in our system commits any wrongdoing. Everyone is engaged in making a profit, simultaneously drowning competitors wassat wassat at the same time, especially literate ones are also not needed, they are also drowned and saved on education. laughing
          There was such a mathematician Karl Ballod. He very convincingly proved that the socialist system is much more profitable, it does not suffer from the diseases of capitalism. With her, there will not be a dozen shops with the same goods and bored sellers on the same street. There will not be a situation when less successful enterprises go bankrupt, because the planning system also implies planned advanced scientific assistance.
          Quote: Vladimir247
          Yeah ... that's where everyone starts ... for 30 years already ..
          for 30 years, everyone is scolding Marx, and only a few of those scolding know the definition of Value according to Marx, and no one understands the essence of today's processes from the point of view of the theory of value. Illiterate people with an intelligent and mysterious look broadcast about the fall and rise of the "strong" ruble, not suspecting that they are in the role of shamans or oracles in primitive temples.
          To introduce responsibility, you need to give an understanding of the Purpose, and this is possible only with the help of education, for example, Khrushchev, in his speeches, confused the concepts of value and price. This suggests that he did not understand economics !! In addition, no clear concept of Socialism, Communism was given! wassat Question: how can you introduce responsibility for wrong decisions if there is no direction where to go? why economic decisions about development are made by politicians and not scientists? From them, from scientists, by the way, it is easier to ask laughing miscalculated - shoot !!! smile how everything turns out harmoniously and clearly !!!!! smile
    4. Krasnoyarsk
      Krasnoyarsk 16 December 2020 17: 48
      +3
      Quote: vvnab
      it's time to regain lost ground

      Maybe you should start with education and economics?

      Are you saying that the lack of funds hinders "regaining lost positions in education"? To return to the Soviet education system large (unaffordable for Russia) funds are not needed. It is necessary for the teacher to teach, not "provide services"
      1. Fan-fan
        Fan-fan 16 December 2020 18: 16
        0
        If the teacher has a decent salary, then you can ask the teacher how he teaches.
        1. Krasnoyarsk
          Krasnoyarsk 16 December 2020 18: 25
          +3
          Quote: Fan-Fan
          If the teacher has a decent salary, then you can ask the teacher how he teaches.

          You know, from personal experience, when our engineering and technical personnel of the plant raised salaries to some two, and to whom three times, do you think they began to work better? If you really think so, then you are greatly mistaken.
          Although, of course, I do not mind that their salaries, and not only them, were raised.
          1. awdrgy
            awdrgy 17 December 2020 00: 32
            -2
            The teachers will be so I know the situation Here the reason is simple - if you are a teacher that is not afraid of working with children (let's be frank, not everyone can be sure) then this work is generally not hard (of course, if your level of education allows), although it is responsible and tedious (because everything is the same in a circle) You are an intellectual without a grip but with a good nervous system, let's just say (almost a joke)) At the moment, he has 20-45, and 45 is a very small percentage, you can say such "strikebreakers" well there and who has less than 20 So if, for example, at current prices, at current prices, he would have a salary of 50-70 tons in the provinces, then we can assume that life is a success (lope there in the capitals they want I do not have information, I am current for the province) warehouse will be both hands and teeth and he will teach properly (of course, if he does not have brains of any "load" that has nothing to do with the subject he is passionate about and teaches)
            1. Krasnoyarsk
              Krasnoyarsk 17 December 2020 09: 44
              0
              Quote: awdrgy
              Teachers will be so I know the situation

              Well, here you can look at this question in another way. The salary is not satisfied, look for another job, you have a higher education. Even though I'm sure this is the wrong, harmful approach. Yes, a teacher should not experience material difficulties and should devote all of himself to teaching and upbringing. But another problem will appear - they will trample on teachers, for a good salary, all sorts of such. which should not be allowed close to children.
              When my sister became the MNS, her supervisor immediately warned her - if you are interested in money, then this is not for us. We employ only those who have an interest in science.
              Why am I? Besides, the teacher's salary should be average. And not tall, but not beggarly either. In this situation, teachers will go only out of love for this profession. It is very important.
              1. awdrgy
                awdrgy 17 December 2020 11: 26
                0
                It is immediately clear that you do not know the question and this is forgivable since you are not an experienced teacher Some clarification will be required - On advanced training courses as well as obtaining additional professional education at pedagogical universities, issues such as professional fatigue, drop in the average level of education of candidates for students are discussed teacher universities an increase in the number of opportunists in the field of education At the moment, the situation has developed as follows - In connection with the systematic fall in the standard of living of teachers below the average (more than one generation), they are preparing to become mainly people who do not have enough stars from the sky, and this has already entered the system T e roughly speaking before, an excellent student came and now he is good Or in other words, a person who is ready to have a standard of living below average for the sake of stability and retirement that is not good (there are other options, but the trend is this) Considering the fact that you wrote about the engineering and technical staff of the plant, then (as an example) I can indicate to a higherthe level of training of candidates for workers in the 80s compared to the 0s, which was due to the level of wages, which were often higher than those of an engineer (which of course attracted young people who were quite capable of getting a good higher education)
                1. Aag
                  Aag 21 December 2020 20: 34
                  0
                  Quote: awdrgy
                  It is immediately clear that you do not know the question and this is forgivable since you are not an experienced teacher Some clarification will be required - On advanced training courses as well as obtaining additional professional education at pedagogical universities, issues such as professional fatigue, drop in the average level of education of candidates for students are discussed teacher universities an increase in the number of opportunists in the field of education At the moment, the situation has developed as follows - In connection with the systematic fall in the standard of living of teachers below the average (more than one generation), they are preparing to become mainly people who do not have enough stars from the sky, and this has already entered the system T e roughly speaking before, an excellent student came and now he is good Or in other words, a person who is ready to have a standard of living below average for the sake of stability and retirement that is not good (there are other options, but the trend is this) Considering the fact that you wrote about the engineering and technical staff of the plant, then (as an example) I can indicate to a higherthe level of training of candidates for workers in the 80s compared to the 0s, which was due to the level of wages, which were often higher than those of an engineer (which of course attracted young people who were quite capable of getting a good higher education)

                  In the 80s, 90s, pedagogical institutes were considered as an alternate airfield, if they could not enter the desired university ...
                  1. awdrgy
                    awdrgy 22 December 2020 15: 50
                    0
                    The dialogue was about motivation. What are you talking about?
                    1. Aag
                      Aag 22 December 2020 16: 17
                      0
                      Quote: awdrgy
                      The dialogue was about motivation. What are you talking about?

                      To motivation ... If an applicant enters a pedagogical university only because he could not enter another university (the reasons for not admission can be left outside the scope of controversy), what motivation can we talk about? There were exceptions, some were pulled together, imbued ... More often, on the contrary. (((.
                      1. awdrgy
                        awdrgy 23 December 2020 10: 45
                        -1
                        Doing yourself to poverty is obvious? Where is the logic? Spiritual and material values ​​are like d'Alembert's theorem. What values ​​do you think are necessary and what are sufficient? Motivation is provided precisely by the necessary values, because otherwise, for the majority of the population, work would not be a means of ensuring life, but self-realization which we do not observe.And yes, in the 90s, this is a bad example (there, on one topic of inertia of thinking in a situation of a sharp change in priorities, one can discuss for hours) And if we add several other factors of which then it was complete, then we generally find ourselves in a zone of uncertainty (or rather a lack of information and computing power) due to our limited capabilities
              2. Aag
                Aag 21 December 2020 20: 39
                0
                Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                Quote: awdrgy
                Teachers will be so I know the situation

                Well, here you can look at this question in another way. The salary is not satisfied, look for another job, you have a higher education. Even though I'm sure this is the wrong, harmful approach. Yes, a teacher should not experience material difficulties and should devote all of himself to teaching and upbringing. But another problem will appear - they will trample on teachers, for a good salary, all sorts of such. which should not be allowed close to children.
                When my sister became the MNS, her supervisor immediately warned her - if you are interested in money, then this is not for us. We employ only those who have an interest in science.
                Why am I? Besides, the teacher's salary should be average. And not tall, but not beggarly either. In this situation, teachers will go only out of love for this profession. It is very important.

                I very much agree with you!
                Only, unfortunately, the system has matured, educated, convinced a lot of people who believe that money can solve all problems. (((
                hi
        2. Vladimir247
          Vladimir247 19 December 2020 23: 44
          0
          Decent salary ...
          --------
          We have already heard this. Since the 90s. Didn't they change the training manual?
      2. frog
        frog 17 December 2020 09: 40
        0
        Oh how !! Well, tell the city and the world how this can be done now, in our wonderful real life, without significant costs. To start. Then it will be possible to touch upon the personnel issue ...
        1. Krasnoyarsk
          Krasnoyarsk 21 December 2020 21: 17
          0
          Quote: frog
          Oh how !! Well, tell the city and the world,

          If the question is for me, then something like this - first of all, return to the Soviet education system. In which the teacher does not provide his services, but teaches!
          A teacher's salary should also depend on the number of students he has and their academic performance. Students' progress is confirmed in ANNUAL exams.
          Taking into account the modern computerization of the people, you can make in the internet lessons in mathematics, physics, chemistry and other disciplines that are taught by outstanding teachers of Russia. A student, having listened to new material from his teacher at school, having come home, has the opportunity, for a better understanding, to listen to this lecture on the Internet. Is it bad? And how much money is needed for this?
    5. Aag
      Aag 21 December 2020 19: 06
      0
      Quote: vvnab
      it's time to regain lost ground

      Maybe you should start with education and economics?

      Of course it’s worth it.
      ... If in order to have the development of the Russian Federation! It is not even so important, for patriotic, altruistic purposes, or, with the aim of the greatest enrichment, but not under anyone else. Sorry for the revanchist sentiments, but, without a lot of blood, so far nothing else.
      I would like to be mistaken ...
  • Marine engineer
    Marine engineer 16 December 2020 17: 11
    +9
    In order to "claim the status of a serious geopolitical player," you first need to put things in order at home.
    1. Aag
      Aag 21 December 2020 19: 19
      0
      Quote: Marine engineer
      In order to "claim the status of a serious geopolitical player," you first need to put things in order at home.

      Who would argue ...
      Pay attention to how the media are now pushing against the "democratic elections" in the United States, Ukrainian intrigues ... Like, this is the cause of all the troubles! Influence, of course, has a place to be, but this should not be used to justify non-copiousness and grandiose theft (often banditry).
  • BABAY22
    BABAY22 16 December 2020 17: 17
    +8
    or hangars, where only technicians in filthy overalls scurried about.

    It
    hto
    here
    in dirty overalls?
  • parusnik
    parusnik 16 December 2020 17: 28
    +8
    The time has come to return the lost positions.
    ... That is, they returned the rest. Little things remained. smile
  • Pavel57
    Pavel57 16 December 2020 17: 29
    -3
    Those wishing to make money for the base can be found.
    1. Aag
      Aag 21 December 2020 19: 44
      -1
      Quote: Pavel57
      Those wishing to make money for the base can be found.

      It remains to find the money.
      From the people? -So there is almost nothing ...
      From the middle class (with an income of 17 sput), with the existing prices for diesel fuel, some of the ships cannot be refueled ...
      Oligarchs? So they prefer to invest with budgetary (read national) funds. If the business burns out, they gesheft (with the exception of a small percentage). And profits, mostly abroad. Will burn out, the people will pay off (from such lighted torches of Deripasko) ...
  • Connor MacLeod
    Connor MacLeod 16 December 2020 17: 34
    -3
    The military presence, including the PMTO of the Navy in the following countries, will provide the Russian Federation with control over the most important sea trade arteries:

    Syria -> Suecky Canal and the Eastern Mediterranean
    Libya -> Strait of Gibraltar and Western Mediterranean
    Somalia -> Strait of Aden and Indian Ocean
    Benin -> West African coast and East Atlantic
    Cuba -> Panama Canal and Western Atlantic
    Nicaragua -> Panama Canal and Pacific Ocean
    Vietnam -> Strait of Malacca and the Pacific Ocean
    Myanmar -> Strait of Malacca and Indian Ocean


    It is also necessary to ensure a safe flight over the territory of the following countries in case our contingents are blocked during a military conflict and the evacuation of personnel is required:

    Iran
    Iraq
    Lebanon
    Egypt
    Sudan
    Niger
    Mongolia
    China
  • apro
    apro 16 December 2020 18: 12
    +6
    I understand why the USSR needed basing points. But why did the Russian Federation? The USSR really opposed it. Promoted its influence. And was ready to use and use force in case of anything. He was an equal player. But the Russian Federation ... is entirely dependent value.
  • zenion
    zenion 16 December 2020 18: 26
    +4
    Nothing will come of it, nothing. The USSR was a power, and Russia was a country. Small population, and betrayal of everyone who was an ally. But there is the possibility of wetting in toilets and poisoning with a fake Rookie.
    1. Vladimir247
      Vladimir247 16 December 2020 22: 00
      +1
      There is only one way out. Or rather two. One is to quietly roll into the pit and beyond. And the second is the restoration of the country. Without Putin and Chubais. And somehow it turns out that no one else lives in the country.
      But everyone took the oath ... they swore an oath to the Soviet people and the Soviet government.
  • A. Privalov
    A. Privalov 16 December 2020 19: 37
    +7
    A month ago, Damantsev stood up for new MTO items, now here is Kharaluzhny ...
    It seems that the worn-out slogan "Catch up and overtake!"
    It is enough to look at these two pictures, which indicate the countries on whose territory the military facilities of both countries are located, to understand that the "strategically important points of the world" are already very densely and thoroughly staked out.




    In numerical terms, if I say that Russia has such facilities somewhere in the region of two dozen, and the United States has about eight hundred, I think that I will not be very mistaken. hi
  • Bez 310
    Bez 310 16 December 2020 20: 45
    +1
    "Without distant outposts, our country is in the future
    is unlikely to be able to claim the status of a serious
    geopolitical player. "
    Here are these military-political spells I'm in the head
    I do not take, this is a mandatory set of words, nothing from
    not representing himself.
    Can someone from the experts explain to me,
    Why do we need "bases" abroad? Is it really just for
    teasing Americans? I don't think that
    you have to spend a lot of money on "teasers". Not
    let's forget that a large ocean fleet has
    There is no Russia, and scatter the remnants of the Soviet Navy
    there is no point on the world map.
  • Red Alert
    Red Alert 16 December 2020 22: 22
    +2
    Quote: parusnik
    There was a shortage of food and food, because the bases abroad contained and all of Africa and Asia were fed. If they did not feed, they did not keep the bases, today they would live like Christ's in the bosom and there would not be such a mess in our regions. Greetings. hi

    Are you hinting at the inferiority of the Soviet planned economy? Have you ever wondered why the food crisis came in the 80s? Why not 50 or 70? Judging the USSR by the crisis 80s is like judging the United States by the era of the Great Depression.
    1. Ulysses
      Ulysses 18 December 2020 23: 08
      +1
      Sorry, but there was always a food crisis in the USSR, from its birth.
      I will not develop the topic of famines, but there was always a shortage of food.

      Exception, the capital, the capitals of the union republics, the cities of union subordination.

      Have you ever wondered why there were special distributors for the nomenclature?
      1. Aag
        Aag 21 December 2020 20: 48
        0
        Quote: Ulysses
        Sorry, but there was always a food crisis in the USSR, from its birth.
        I will not develop the topic of famines, but there was always a shortage of food.

        Exception, the capital, the capitals of the union republics, the cities of union subordination.

        Have you ever wondered why there were special distributors for the nomenclature?

        "... the food crisis in the USSR has always been ..."
        Only the reasons were very different ...
        Try to define your 30s, 50s, 90s and feel the difference.
        "... Have you ever wondered why there were special distributors for the nomenclature? ..."
        Yes, now they seem to be gone .. They manage by "regulating" the level of income.)))
  • high
    high 17 December 2020 00: 35
    -2
    Military bases and troops abroad are huge amounts of money!
    Russia occupies a low, 70th place in the world in terms of the quality of life of the population, therefore, military bases must be reduced, and the proceeds must be spent on the welfare of the population.
    What is quality of life:
    - the level of purchasing power of the population
    - level of health care
    - the cost of living of the population
    - the ratio of price to own income
    - pollution index ......
    https://www.numbeo.com/quality-of-life/rankings_by_country.jsp
  • Pavel57
    Pavel57 18 December 2020 11: 40
    -4
    Quote: apro
    wholly dependent value.

    Russia is no longer the vassal of the West that it was in the 90s. Slowly throws off the yoke. Hence the interest in databases.
  • Ulysses
    Ulysses 18 December 2020 22: 46
    -1
    For the Soviet Union, this state of affairs, of course, was unacceptable. It is because of this that his military outposts were located, in fact, all over the globe, in all parts of the world.


    The union broke down on that.
    Now the United States is straining, with practically unlimited financial injections.

    Why repeat obvious mistakes?
  • vavilon
    vavilon 20 December 2020 17: 29
    +1
    It's time to return not only the military bases of the USSR, but also everything stolen, lift the moratorium on the death penalty and try the thieves according to Soviet laws
  • AC130 Ganship
    AC130 Ganship 6 February 2021 17: 44
    0
    Take Switzerland. There is no army at all. Nobody attacks them. The population lives in peace. The interest rate on a mortgage in the bank is 0.5%. Further. Finland. Not included in NATO. Has a small army. Take Canada. There are two F18 fighter regiments throughout the country, of which 20-25% are in working order. There are no ballistic missiles. There are no submarines. There are no avaks. There are no bombers. There are five more obsolete ships that are 50 years old. Why spend money on weapons if they can be spent on raising the living standards of the population?
    1. strannik1985
      strannik1985 6 February 2021 18: 06
      0
      Take Switzerland

      Which of these countries border on the North Caucasus and Central Asia? Why would Israel spend money on the army, it is not better to distribute it to pensioners and children?
  • Alexander Koshkin
    Alexander Koshkin 22 February 2021 23: 37
    +1
    "Lost positions" where?
    In Afghanistan?
  • ser.rudov2016
    ser.rudov2016 7 March 2021 22: 31
    0
    It would not hurt to first put things in order at home. To improve the lives of pensioners, to provide housing for young families to increase the birth rate, to restore and sometimes nationalize industry, to revive agriculture and medicine. And foreign bases, this is for the last century. No one is going to attack on a country possessing nuclear weapons. The West needs a market for its goods and mineral resources, and no one needs a radioactive desert, neither the West, nor us.